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The Shareware Debate: Part Final Goto page Previous 1, 2

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MauveBib Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 602 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |

It is well known that id requested us not to use custom maps with the shareware version. Whether that is legally binding or not is really quite irrelevant, we should obey their wishes. Just because there may be a loophole doesn't mean it should be exploted. Id asked us not to do it, so we shouldn't.
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Apathy Now!

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Preach Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 122 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |

Baker wrote:
And, in light of the future GPL agreement and the GPL release letter -- which explicitly encourages modification and explicitly permits the usage of the shareware data, an urban legend has been slayed today.

The letter doesn't say "do what you like with the shareware", in fact it states quite clearly that the original licence still stands, because of the comments about using it with linux. It does say that JC would like to have a version with a modified version of the licence, but we don't know what would be in this licence besides permission for linux users to use it.
Is there another version of the shareware out there, with this new license? If there isn't it may be that they never got around to it, or it may be that JC was overruled in making it available. We don't know, and in the absence of anything else we have to abide by what we have - ie the license in the only version of shareware quake which does not allow modifications.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |

Preach wrote:

Baker wrote:
And, in light of the future GPL agreement and the GPL release letter -- which explicitly encourages modification and explicitly permits the usage of the shareware data, an urban legend has been slayed today.

The letter doesn't say "do what you like with the shareware", in fact it states quite clearly that the original licence still stands, because of the comments about using it with linux. It does say that JC would like to have a version with a modified version of the licence, but we don't know what would be in this licence besides permission for linux users to use it.
Is there another version of the shareware out there, with this new license? If there isn't it may be that they never got around to it, or it may be that JC was overruled in making it available. We don't know, and in the absence of anything else we have to abide by what we have - ie the license in the only version of shareware quake which does not allow modifications.

nope, the latest shareware is still the 1996 1.06 release.
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |

CheapAlert wrote:
nope, the latest shareware is still the 1996 1.06 release.

The following is a joke ...
Hey, I just noticed that the Quake 1 source release comes with a registered version license agreement in it! ( http://www.quakedev.com/files/quake1/q1source.zip )
Quake is free! Quake is free! Just download the Quake 1 Source and you get an agreement which entitles you to use the registered version.
[/joke]
Anyways, back to reality ...
I am going to email ID Software for clarification and make my case and see what they say. Whatever they end up saying, I'll abide by that but I will also argue my case.
If they say still no custom maps with shareware, I'll abide by the that and go the OpenQuartz method.
I'm just exploring and researching the various methods required to keep the original Quake from dying. It is difficult since you can't buy it in a store and there are no Quake 1 to Quake 4 packages (yet). The 5 copies on EBay and the obscure ID store are not vehicles to draw a significant amount of new interest to the game.
If the Quake populations declines too much, there won't be anyone left to archive stuff. And with the latest wave of possible PlanetQuake devastation --- lots of sites are NOT working since the conversion, even with URL corrected to the new format --- lots of web pages, information, mod and other files are an "endangered species".
\Seriously, right now Quake is being kept from the abyss by dedicated loyalists like Spirit and Cheapalert who have stocked the files and ... facts are facts ... [rampant] Quake piracy (<-- yuk).

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |

Btw ... I'm not evil. Just putting up my strongest devil's advocate position to see what the response to it would be.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |

Email to ID Software sent asking for a definitive answer on this. I'll post the response when (if) I get one.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |

Reply from ID Software:

Quote:
Custom maps are only permitted where all content is unique and no textures or other media property from the shareware or full game is downloaded or otherwise made available to the user. The GPL does not apply to any Quake media file - the engine itself, which is distinct from the game, is the only thing under the GPL.

So shareware using custom maps isn't what they want, so OpenQuartz-style will be the method I pursue.
And, looks like I'll have to de-wad any maps to check for ID Software textures.

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Yellow No. 5 Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2 |

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: |

I think you're all being kind of dumb about this. Software companies like id expressly forbid as much as legally possible, not so much cause they really care but because they want to reserve the rigth to say "hey punk, don't do that". Damn near every quake project, website, or mod violates something legally. As was pointed out POSTING SCREENSHOTS is against the eula.
I could email id about most ANYTHING quake related and get an answer that says "Yes according to the eula that's not allowed". Guess what? That doesn't mean they care. Even when zdaemon was pointed out to them the extent of their response was "ya that's not legal".
I am not condoning piracy. Even if id doesn't give a crap that you can download the full version of quake from a dozen sites, in no way should any self respecting website be supporting piracy. I'm just pointing out that software companies prohibit you doing just about anything so they have the right to tell you to stop doing something if they don't like it.
As for this present discussion, it is in no way against any eula or anything else to run a quake server that happens to only run custom maps. It is in no way against quakes gpl license to modify the source to run custom maps without pak1. The question here really, is for the end user. Is it illegal for him to legally aquired shareware quake and legally aquire a quake engine that doesn't check for pak1, and use them together to play custom maps? It would seem that no it's technically not against the eula. That was probably an oversight, and they may even care, if it was still 1996. The response from id Baker posted does not specifically speak to this issue, but to running custom maps that use id content, which they've been doing since 1996.
By the way, if you read a box of q-tips it says "don't stick these in your ears".
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http://www.quakeone.com/

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |

Well, I've been using Q-tips to clean my ears ever since I can remember. It's what my parents used them for, and doggone it, it's what I use them for. I don't care what it says on the box. They suggest such pointless uses as idly poking your fingers, annoyingly poking some kid's toy airplane, stabbing a dog, and a picture of a baby with, disturbingly, no Q-tip in sight. I find these a cheesy way for the Q-tip company to sell their product properly to those who know its true purpose, while keeping the safety folks down.
Why, I have a box of Q-tips on my desk, not an inch from my computer monitor, and I paid good money for it. Nobody is going to stop me from performing my regular task of retrieving a Q-tip from the box, inserting it in my ear, and rotating it, occasionally accidentally stabbing my brain but it doesn't hurt that much oh it hurts please stop the pain.
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F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Yellow No. 5 Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 2 |

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |

That's pretty much the explanation I've been waiting for _________________ http://www.quakeone.com/

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