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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Creative Commons |

Metlslime started a really great thread at FuncMsgboard on maps with the GPL sources available: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60094 Two thoughts occurred to me while thinking about this: 1. It is rather disappointing that outside the original Quake community, use of the GPL for content is almost non-existent. Tremulous as an example.
Why does it seems like the GPL is not used, except for executables, outside the Quake community? Warsow isn't GPL, Tremulous isn't GPL and if you go outside the Quake series community to Half-Life and Unreal and so forth, almost no content is even made freely available in any form.
I think a great deal of credit goes to id Software for encouraging the GPL and I really do think it is sad that the GPL is not used much elsewhere.
2. Creative Commons is such a ripoff compared to the GPL. What a crappy, wannabee license.

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |

iirc, Unreal engine to this date is still based around the Unreal we played in 98 - and I recall Sweeney saying that when he started working on the engine, he planned on it being expanded like that, still being the same engine, just growing. That may be why they've never open sourced that version of the engine... Random shot in the dark.
Didn't Epic however release the 3dsmax file of the original Skaarj mesh to the public at some point? I have vague memory of that, but PlanetUnreal like any GSI site is basically broken now.
Valve doesn't exactly have a reputation of being open and giving in my view.
And yeah, I like that thread, noticed it the other day and gave him "The Nod" which he probably wasn't aware of.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |

2: what? Uh, it's a different license(s). Far fewer artists are going to be willing to use the GPL. And there are few if any previously available art assets (such as those that Tremulous uses extensively) under the GPL or Free Art License or whatever.
Note that the games you mention are games that actually were completed and released with a fair bit of content and quality. If Tremulous used the GPL for everything it would probably have a release date of 2009 and look absolutely terrible.
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: |

Sajt wrote:
Far fewer artists are going to be willing to use the GPL.

Everything you say is true, but there isn't like designing art assets is on a different plane of existence or more noble than what coders do.
If GPL engines required GPL content, hehehehehehe. GPL 4.0
I mean, being realistic the GPL is a very good license for art assets, GPL art assets are unlikely to be usurped by a commercial project because almost no GPL game is good enough to buy and art assets are going to be obsolete in 15 years anyway.

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HeadThump Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Zin |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: |

Since the dawn of Quake mapping, some mappers have included a 'do what ever you want with it, I don't care', in the text notice. I notice a hesitancy from GPL advocates to go ahead and use these by repackaging them under the GPL as one of the 'ever you wants', but why not? It is not an explicit license, but it still would carry legal standing as a prior agreement.
I ask because one multi mapper project I was involved with released the map files for public use but with no explicitly defined license.

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HeadThump Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Zin |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |

Quote:
art assets are going to be obsolete in 15 years anyway.

Baker, art assets will never be obsolete (in context of the human epoch of existence). Non artist will always spaz out when trying to arrange assets in an aesthetic matter. It's just one version of Pareto's Law that cannot be overcome by some meta-human, computer or socially engineered means.
Oh, I accidentally sent this to you private, disregard that message though it is the same. Hmm, I'm going to have to think about that one.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: |

HeadThump wrote:
art assets are going to be obsolete in 15 years anyway. Baker, art assets will never be obsolete (in context of the human epoch of existence).

Perhaps obsolete was the wrong word.
What's a better word to describe how the Flintstones was a good TV show back in the 1960's but would never be on prime time today?
Most creations have a lifespan of optimal value and it doesn't last forever.

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HeadThump Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Zin |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |

I understand the point you were making much better now. There is much truth in that, I wonder if the Family Guy will seem quaint in 20 plus years.

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |

Simpson's been on for a while, I think, not sure, I don't follow tv, or somesuch. No but seriously, a tv show could last forever if they liked it to, you just need to renew yourself in a clever way, a way that's hard to spot. One example in simpsons could be the fact that they have very few disgusting things (unless you count itchy and scratchy) before Jackass and all the derivates. When it was time, they started having a bit more of that, just not to the length as the aforementioned, so it still suited the public.
Never mind though, what I meant to say, why isn't there a force pushing for a GPL'd Unreal engine? Even if the newer Unreals are built upon the same old code, I doubt with all the changes made one could any more easily create an engine capable of running and connecting to the servers of the newer games, than one could recreate HL2 out of Quake. It is possible though, ofcourse, if you put your mind to it. I believe it was Ender who managed to rewrite Half-Life out of the Quake engine, and successfully play CS with it (pre-steam). But that was just one step up, who would care if you managed to connect to UT servers, that'd just be cool.
_________________
Look out for Twigboy

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |

Not to get this off topic, but regarding shows changing... all I see is more and more of pop culture neither being relevant nor as entertaining. I thoroughly enjoy Family Guy, but it cannot make me laugh nearly as hard as I Love Lucy does, and I can't think of a show today that simultaneously does as good of a job addressing serious issues while still being funny as All in the Family and Good Times. In the case of television, a lot of the past just seems to be much higher quality to me... Granted, I'm not defending The Flintstones, but it wasn't entirely indicative of all entertainment at the times (and I didn't find it particularly humorous, even when I was very young). I guess I don't see todays writers and producers doing another All in the Family or Good Times, and I really haven't encountered something as good as I Love Lucy that didn't stoop low for laughs.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |

Monty Python stooped low but it's the funniest show out there _________________ F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |

Baker wrote:
art assets are going to be obsolete in 15 years anyway.

Indeed. In 15 years we will play all games through neural connections to our brains. Art will be pointless because the amount of polys for this super-next-gen games will be so sky-high, everything in the games will just be sampled from real life instead.
Also, the whole profession thing in MMOs will expand greatly, to encompass basically all the jobs and roles we see in modern day life. The role playing depth and realism of these MMOs, coupled with much better broadband will cause a large segment of the population to get into the game... not just the 9 million online that WoW now has.
But then a hacker will probably get into the game and after cheating rampantly, and infecting most of the players with a virus, he'll eventually will bring down the servers. And a little girl will sit in a park talking to Colonel Sanders.

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |

The last time an MMO appealed to me was Ultima Online... Nothing since has caught my eye and looked like anything but irc + work and a fee... Though I hear there are terrorist attacks in Second Life now...

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |

HeadThump wrote:
I understand the point you were making much better now. There is much truth in that, I wonder if the Family Guy will seem quaint in 20 plus years.

You know, this is strange to me.
I never watched the Family Guy -- I think I caught an episode or 2 in the past and didn't like it -- until 3 weeks ago and that show is hilarious.
To me it seems like in the last 3 or 4 weeks, I have read more and more and more about that show on the internet.
I don't know if this is coincidence or if people are waking up to that show, but the humor is awesome.
I think the reason I didn't give the show a fair look whenever I saw an episode or 2 of it a year or 2 ago was maybe because it was so different and I couldn't see past that at the time.

scar3crow wrote:
The last time an MMO appealed to me was Ultima Online... Nothing since has caught my eye and looked like anything but irc + work and a fee... Though I hear there are terrorist attacks in Second Life now...

I never played Ultima Online. My fear was that if I played it once I might get addicted to it because I thought the Ultima series was great.
MMO games scare me. And you read so many stories of people losing themselves into them.

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |

I'm with Baker on the MMO issue. I just don't play MMO's, period. I like having atleast a remote possibility for a life. When coding I already "lose" a lot of time, cause it's mostly bugfixing/bugtacking you do anyway, not so much coding per se.
_________________
Look out for Twigboy

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