Index | FAQ | Search | Memberlist | Usergroups | Profile | Log in to check your private messages | Log in | Register

QuakeC Masking IPs - how to make listen mode compatible? Goto page Previous 1, 2

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> QuakeC Programming

View previous topic :: View next topic
Author | Message
--- | ---
Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |

CheapAlert wrote:
then they should shut up and get a proper card instead of being helpless shadowalkers with a lost cause a geforce 256 does not cost much.

Maybe one day you will rule the world and be able to help those who do not do as you wish.
Until that day comes, I personally look for solutions that are compatible with the real world.
Last time I checked, telling other people to use FireFox or to not use FireFox and use Internet Explorer doesn't work.
Telling others to get a Mac doesn't work, tell others to use Linux doesn't work and telling others to only use Open Source doesn't work.
People still do what they want.
I've personally tried my best to kill off the non-GPL compliant XQuake, but some still use it/like it/love it.
I accept working in a world that I do not control and living within the constraints that are likely to work in that world.

Back to top |

scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |

I must say, though not exactly put in an eloquent fashion, Cheapy is correct on the cheapness of videocards... If you have any sort of income, you can get a decent videocard for Quake for under $60. I use a GeForce4 ti4200 64meg which runs on average for $80 and it runs DP with realtime lights used only on things like rockets at 130 to 200 fps, and 30 to 75 fps with completely real time lighting. If you dont have income... Well, I personally dont see why people use the software form of the other engines next to id's binaries which do work, I like them myself... I would use them if DP didnt... do everything I need it to.

Quote:
Many NetQuake multiplayer mods, if not a majority of them, use at least some "qccx hacks". They would have to be de-qccx'ed.

There isnt much to say for that, other than it is astounding at how far bad code and terrible standards have spread despite Quake's rich history of wonderful mods that can easily be cleanly executed. Then again, aside from certain situations, most servers seem to go overboard with their mods... Im a fan of keeping it simple if its deathmatch.
The complication comes from honestly, the shortsightedness of some coders (qccx) and the needless selfishness of others (closed source for what are minor mods).
If I was gonna see a case for something being closed source, itd be something impressive like FBX for what all it accomplishes, not deathmatch tweaks and a menu...

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
I must say, though not exactly put in an eloquent fashion, Cheapy is correct on the cheapness of videocards... If you have any sort of income, you can get a decent videocard for Quake for under $60. I use a GeForce4 ti4200 64meg which runs on average for $80 and it runs DP with realtime lights used only on things like rockets at 130 to 200 fps, and 30 to 75 fps with completely real time lighting. If you dont have income... Well, I personally dont see why people use the software form of the other engines next to id's binaries which do work, I like them myself... I would use them if DP didnt... do everything I need it to.

As far as I can tell, since Quake can be played on even old clunker computers, there may be some part of the Quake population that plays Quake solely due to that (can't play newer games).
There is a rather vibrant Quake community in Brazil, I don't know about the typical hardware used in Brazil or, say, Russia.

Quote:
There isnt much to say for that, other than it is astounding at how far bad code and terrible standards have spread despite Quake's rich history of wonderful mods that can easily be cleanly executed.

True

Quote:
Then again, aside from certain situations, most servers seem to go overboard with their mods... Im a fan of keeping it simple if its deathmatch.

Public server mods have evolved to basically professional grade in many respects. From admin controls, to uptime, and things to discourage/kick annoying players (chat spam limitations, "kill" self limitations).
From what I know, the mods in NetQuake are nothing compared to the Quakeworld ones in this regard (ktx comes to mind).
Needless to say, server operators and players basically demand evolved mod with all sorts of "the players are the admins" type functionality, which is why there is map voting, rule voting and on some servers the ability for players to vote-kick other players.

Quote:
The complication comes from honestly, the shortsightedness of some coders (qccx) and the needless selfishness of others (closed source for what are minor mods).

Very true. But Quake is a study of game longevity and is very interesting in that regard.
I don't think there is another game that inspires the passions of the user base like Quake does.
Look at all of us. This game is 10 years old and just about everyone here is a strong and dedicated proponent of this game.

Quote:
If I was gonna see a case for something being closed source...

I am strongly against closed source. In fact, I'd like to replace/kill closed source mods with open source ones.
In the QW community, I believe KTPro is a closed source mod which the KTX developers are trying to replace/kill.
And example of this in NQ is CA+ which is closed source, and we are trying to replace/kill it with CAx. Furthermore, CA+ has some fatal bugs (most custom maps crash the server). Also, why I and a few others railed against non-GPL compliant XQuake for years.
Closed source is a disservice to Quake.

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |

History lesson: In 2002, there was a strong NetQuake community in Europe. In 2002, ProQuake cheat-free came out, it required ProQuake. You could not use DOS quake.exe (q95.bat), no GLTenQuake (a dialup friendly Quake) and couldn't use the extremely popular XQuake.
Many players refused to switch to accomodate cheat-free play. They decided to switch to Quakeworld.
(Ask Sassa of Quakeworld.nu about this, he'll tell you)
Also in 2002, due to Trujen -- the XQuake author, which was based off of ProQuake but had new cool effects --- refused to release his source code as the GPL required.
XQuake fiasco: http://proquake.planetquake.gamespy.com/bill.html
Although some of us were abhorred by this and were strongly anti-XQuake and made every effort to suppress it, players seem to not really give a flying <insert word> about that and kept using it and spreading it.
Only the lack of an NAT fix caused the demise of XQuake, although many players STILL use it. Due to it's closed source, this can never be fixed. (Live by sword, die by the sword I say.)
Anyway, trying to get players to switch clients is a futile effort.
Initially, it was extraordinarily difficult to get players to dump their preferred client and show up on a server for cheat-free play.
Players despise being told what client they have to use, it is a quick way to become very unpopular in the Quake community.
Even the few times I've knocked XQuake -- including recently -- I get told to basically "<insert word> off".
Example:

Quote:
This eQuake ' OMG ITS WAREZ ' shit is ridiculous , only being surpassed in gayness by the whole XQuake GPL incident.

I figure you and many others don't know of the sheer unpopularity of trying to push a client on players. Promoting a client is one thing, but trying to force/push is a quick way to become extremely unpopular.

Back to top |

scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |

To be honest, Id never heard of XQuake until this thread, nor had I heard of Qrack or ProQuake until Quakeone.com launched. In fact the only engines that I ever heard anything about were DP, TomazQuake, FuhQuake, FitzQuake, Telejano, Tenebrae, and random others by friends.
One thing Ive noticed that seems to be unique to Quake post-98
There is no connection between mappers, modders, and players.
There are no Zerstorers, which was a pinnacle of collaboration, the effort of people who loved to play Quake, some of whom could code, or map, or skin, or model, and they all made something they wanted to play and shared it amongst the community as a whole.
Honestly, now I am sad. We need to love Quake fully again.

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |

More: The ProQuake author fulfilled all of his obligations to make his source available. As far as I can tell, it's been 4 years since he worked on it. Why have bad feelings towards someone who fulfilled all of his obligations? Just to point out the obvious, but FuhQuake and EZQuake have security modules. It is unfair to single out ProQuake.
Furthermore, his mods like CRMOD work with the original Quake. It is not his fault other engines have, in fact, broken compatibility with the original Quake.
He may not continue to work to work on his engine/mods/compiler, but he did fulfill his obligations.
The fact his NQ client is the only one to have a cheat-free mode is not his fault either. Other engine developers could have done so, but as far as I know, have not.
How is that, or any of the above, the ProQuake author's fault?

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
To be honest, Id never heard of XQuake until this thread, nor had I heard of Qrack or ProQuake until Quakeone.com launched.

You aren't the only one. The NQ community did not have it's act together at all. A source of frustration for me for years. And probably not just me, I imagine.

Back to top |

Preach Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 122 |

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
There are no Zerstorers, which was a pinnacle of collaboration, the effort of people who loved to play Quake, some of whom could code, or map, or skin, or model, and they all made something they wanted to play and shared it amongst the community as a whole.

There are plenty of these released since Zerstorer, Soul of Evil, Operation Urth Majik(sp?) and most recently the Lost Chapters, to name but three. There are at least two more in the pipeline I've worked on, although the project I code for is in a bit of a quiet phase at the moment. I'm sure that one will pick up once summer rolls around...

Back to top |

scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |

Preach - Im not saying its the only one, just a good example to me, and its one that most everyone knows about. I recall the thread at Func concerning the Lovecraftian project you have been working on, and I was getting rather excited reading the thread. I hope to hear news of it kicking back up again because it was looking very cool.

Back to top |

Display posts from previous:

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> QuakeC Programming | All times are GMT Goto page Previous 1, 2
Page 2 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2004 phpBB Group