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Inside3D Asks #4: Quake 1 and the community. Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:48 am Post subject: |

Glad to see there are other MechWarrior 2 fans here. That was a good game, wasn't it? _________________ F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:19 am Post subject: |

Sajt wrote:
Glad to see there are other MechWarrior 2 fans here. That was a good game, wasn't it?

I've played and enjoyed MechWarrior 2 at one point, but I was talking about Modern Warfare 2, as I'm sure you well know

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LonePossum. Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 38 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |

Oh Downsider I think MW2 and Counter Strike are great. Story for MW2 is Amazing (Well I prefered the original MW1 cause the character changing all the time in MW2 is annoying) And I love CS but MW2s Multiplayer I find is just CS with leveling, less guns, maps and better graphics. In other words I would rather play CS than a game the just took its ideas.. Search and Destroy bla bla bla. Thats why I play TF2, teamwork, you have fun, great servers usually people play properly and its not just random DM and you can usually get a rather nice bunch of peeps to chat with (Well at least that is what I get in NZ/Aus servers) and not 5 year old douch bags.

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |

LonePossum. wrote:
Oh Downsider I think MW2 and Counter Strike are great. Story for MW2 is Amazing (Well I prefered the original MW1 cause the character changing all the time in MW2 is annoying) And I love CS but MW2s Multiplayer I find is just CS with leveling, less guns, maps and better graphics. In other words I would rather play CS than a game the just took its ideas.. Search and Destroy bla bla bla. Thats why I play TF2, teamwork, you have fun, great servers usually people play properly and its not just random DM and you can usually get a rather nice bunch of peeps to chat with (Well at least that is what I get in NZ/Aus servers) and not 5 year old douch bags.

I play TF2 too :3

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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |

Sajt: The "stupid and ignorant" comment was in reference to the online playing part of the community, really. Go to quakeone.com and search for "kimp", and spend about an hour reading the different threads that'll pop up. I'm sorry, I believe that a part of the Quake community is fittingly described by those words.
People in the various sub.communities have said a lot worse things regularly than I did in my post above, and it's apparently generally seen as OK.
People in certain subcommunities are more concerned with pr0n and virtual pissing contests than anything. At the same time, a general feeling of "hey we're all buddies, and don't take our misbehaviour seriously" is promoted. Thus, misbehaviour is sanctified by a buddy myth. This is just pretty poor social conduct. I'm sorry, I'm at the point where I will speak my mind about this without caring too much. I can afford to.
I hope this clears it up. I have had comparatively good experiences at inside3d.com, and in #qc, which is why I'm here. I keep reading other places because sometimes something worthwhile might pop up (I guess many of you do the same).
Usually people will try to end this sort of discussion by saying "this is the internet". Nope, sorry, not all of the internet is like that. I know for sure.
Well. Er. Sorry for going so far OT, but I was asked to. It does have a little to do with the topic though, because the social climate of a community will play a role in some people moving on.
_________________
ReMakeQuake
The Realm of Blog Magic

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: |

OK, I suspected it was about a different "community". But I'm so out of touch I'm not really aware of anything outside of Inside3D. I used to go to QuakeOne but left mostly because it was not within my sphere of interest at all (I have no interest in deathmatch and that sort of thing). I will take your word for it about the people there, I know they really are from a different world than I am.
I agree with your second paragraph. Eventually one realizes that the internet is a total waste of time when used for supposedly "social" reasons (rather than creative/knowledge-based). My life is much better now that usually, within 10 minutes of logging on to the internet, I have nothing left to do. Although now I am back at Inside3D for the time being...
Maybe you get more out of it than I do though. I am kind of deliberately out of touch (with sites, with games, with technology in general). I seriously did not know that "MW2" meant something other "MechWarrior 2" until a few weeks ago when scar3crow brought it up.
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |

You guys. The people on this forum. We have learn to appreciate, and admire.

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |

Teiman wrote:
You guys. The people on this forum. We have learn to appreciate, and admire.

I love you.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |

goldenboy wrote:
Sajt: The "stupid and ignorant" comment was in reference to the online playing part of the community, really. Go to quakeone.com and search for "kimp", and spend about an hour reading the different threads that'll pop up. I'm sorry, I believe that a part of the Quake community is fittingly described by those words.

Player communities obviously aren't going to be all intellectual and stuff like developer communities. And they will have their own culture and point of view.
But it takes player communities to support the existence of developer communities, for the most part. And player communities help developer communities debug, get end-user testing and point out often obvious feature requests or deficiencies.
Plus it is nice to have an audience for hard-made completed works if you are a developer.
And remember, player communities are a breeding ground for future developers. Some of them will decide to mod or learn more about the development side of a game they enjoy.
It is also easier for someone new to join a player community because they don't have anything deep to say and with a player community, participation doesn't require having anything deep to say.
_________________
Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:29 am Post subject: |

Well, according to my research 99% of "players" (and 99% of mappers) are uninterested in 99% of mods, so the online player communities really are totally unrelated to a modding community. (And 0.1% of players will ever express an interest in creating a mod.)
To attempt to get back to the topic, you see a huge division in the reason people like Quake. For example (based on a vague memory), go to mobygames and read some reviews of Quake. Some claim that Quake's singleplayer is flat and uninteresting and was a total failure, and that the only reason to play it is for its excellent multiplayer. Others say that its biggest draw is its atmosphere and singleplayer campaign, and don't mention the multiplayer. It really is as if Quake is two different games: some like one and hate the other, some like both.
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: |

Baker: I appreciate that, I guess the kimp incident(s) just got to me. Sajt: I agree with what you say about the 10 minutes. It's similar here. _________________ ReMakeQuake The Realm of Blog Magic

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: |

I loved Quake since qtest1. played a lot of DM (mostly CTF) for years. Never got hooked by Q2 or Q3, though. Quake was and stills unique, with the undefined mix of environments (medieval castles and ancient runic walls plus vintage military technology) and the smooth blend of lights and shadows. But nowadays I more and more see Quake as an easy-to-use-and-modify tool where I can experiment a lot of gameplay ideas - either mine or from other modders. IMO that's Quake strength: 14 years later and stills one of the easiest and best modding platform available.
_________________
frag.machine - Q2K4 Project
http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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mk Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 94 |

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Inside3D Asks #4: Quake 1 and the community. |

Error wrote:
It's dated. So many games and people have come and gone. What are the strong points and the weak points of this game for you? Why haven't you "moved on"? So, what keeps you modding/mapping/coding for Quake 1 and/or what keeps you in the community?

Good questions, and good thread.
I've gotta say, everyday I'm getting more and more impressed with the development community around it. I've only learned about the Quake engine being open source in the year 2000, around the same time I bought a Dreamcast. As soon as I've found out that there was a port of Quake for it that could run mods made for the PC versions, I got the "with this I can make my own console game" fever which made me focus on the DC development community rather than on the Quake development community itself.
But in the end, it's Quake that matters. I've got to feel what it's like to start making a commercial console game, and even though that experiment failed I've still learned enough with it to satisfy my desires and to kill that fever. And besides that, it also taught me a lot of things about myself, things that made me see the whole world in a different light.
The memories of my previous Quake coding times always kept coming back to my head, be it with new ideas or simply wanting to playtest the game again. For some reason, I've always been more fond of playtesting the game than of playing it normally; trying to find bugs and things to improve always seemed more fun than just beating the levels. And not only that, but from time to time I kept remembering of things I wanted to do in the code, things that were wrong in it, and things I wanted to learn.
This brings me where I am today, using Quake to improve my skills. But nowadays, instead of having the urge to make something new out of it, I'm leaning more towards just enjoying the development process, and giving more priority to learning things deeper. Now, writing quality code, polishing what's in there and making sure that it works correctly is more important for me than adding new features. It's a more tedious and less impressive work, but it makes me happier now.
And as I said, there are a number of things which are making me really impressed with this community. There are a lot of quality efforts, quality technical discussions and quality work in it, and from time to time I keep seeing some of these extremely quality developments popping up. Even if none of them covers every aspect of a full game development process, the level of knowledge present in them more than makes up for this, as well as providing some unique insights that couldn't be easily found anywhere else. This is really giving me a lot of good things to think about everyday.
That said, the Dreamcast development community has always been extremely good also, but I've never done much in it outside of Quake development.
_________________
Makaqu engine blog / website.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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gnounc Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 120 |

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: |

I've just got a hardon for tech journals really. And I dont have a computer capable of running modern games. I need something intelligient and interesting to read. I like how easy quake is to mod, but I'm too flippant and easily distracted to do any modding myself (though I would like to, I dont sit on one project well). So I read what others are doing instead.
I read hackaday, slashdot, repraps blogs, and when I'm done with that I check mh's blog and Inside3d to see what progress quake has made. Its funny to watch, because Quake always seems to see improvements in spurts. Quiet day, quiet day, quiet day, 4 independant projects are announced or completed at once.
So anyways, I love your projects and I don't know what the hell I would do without Inside3d and its cast of rogues....dont ever leave me

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |

Quake is like a Phoenix. The developer community is like the Hall of the Mountain King. Conventional wisdom means little, it is actions of the developers that pull the strings. Algorithms can do in minutes things that brute force can fail to do in a million years. This is why philosophy matters.
Thinking tomorrow resembles yesterday is a common mistake; tomorrow is clay and it is what you decide to make. But decisions require the weight of action. And without understanding "why" how could you commit to such a thing?
This is why open source matters. I believe open source is the ultimate act of collective expression.
And lesser people oppose this line of thought, precisely because they are lesser and more resemble our caveman ancestors that needed a pat on the head or attention or those other things that "mommy" provides ...
Only human vanity believes that adding a brick on top of the pyramid is actually building the whole pyramid. I myself can add a brick on top of that pyramid without deluding myself that I created the whole pyramid and still be satisfied that I had something to contribute towards that greater good.
It IS the act of giving that both makes you greater and makes you good.
_________________
Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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