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JasonX Joined: 21 Apr 2009 Posts: 89 |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: Best Toolset |

What's the best toolset for working with maps for Quake 1, vanilla WinQuake? Quark and q3map2?

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |

Worldcraft 1.5 and BJP's compile tools. Don't touch Quark, it does some decidedly non-standard things with maps. They might work OK - most of the time - but they're still non-standard. _________________ DirectQ Engine - New release 1.8.666a, 9th August 2010
MHQuake Blog (General)
Direct3D 8 Quake Engines

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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: |

There is no "best" set of tools. Compilers/vis/light utils (do slightly different things): Bengt Jardrup's tools http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ Tyrutils
http://disenchant.net/utils.html
Lord Havoc's hmap2
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/download.html
Map editors:
GTKRadiant (or NetRadiant etc)
http://www.qeradiant.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi
http://dev.alientrap.org/wiki/7
Worldcraft
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools.shtml
BSP
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/downloads.php
Quest
http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/dl/index.html
...
Textures etc:
Wally
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/
TexMex
http://quakeone.com/files/9-mapping-developer-server-admin-tools/22-texmex-3-4/
Fimg
http://www.inside3d.com/frikbot/fimg/fimg_v02.zip
AdQedit
(?)
+ an image editor
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ReMakeQuake
The Realm of Blog Magic

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |

I don't particularly recommend Worldcraft 1.5 as it's texture locking doesn't work. Find yourself a copy of worldcraft 3.3 and use Bengt Jardrup's tools. (or use Baker's QuakeAdapter) Heaven knows I wouldn't have made hs_skill.bsp and hse1m1.bsp without worldcraft 3.3 and those BJP tools.
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"Roboto suggests Plasma Bazooka."

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JasonX Joined: 21 Apr 2009 Posts: 89 |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: |

Do you mean convmap?

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: |

JasonX wrote:
Do you mean convmap?

No, I mean BJQBSP, Light, and Vis. ConvMap is only required if you're using something nasty like quark. Or maybe radiant. (which depending on who you ask is not nasty.)
Something else you'll need that I forgot to mention if you go manual route with worldcraft 3.3 is that you'll also need the wadconv tool from qonverge. I've not used it myself (QuakeAdaptor), but Baker's QuakeAdaptor should have that too. (BJQBSP is capable of converting the hlwads made from wadconv on it's own into the proper palette, so there should be no problems there.)
Oh, and if goldenboy hasn't already mentioned it, you will want texmex too.
_________________
"Roboto suggests Plasma Bazooka."
Last edited by Dr. Shadowborg on Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |

http://www.quakeone.com/qadapter It's fairly good. RickyT23 has made some masterpieces with it and is a big advocate of it and as far as I know MDave made the Kurok maps with it. I'd prefer a REAL improved map editor that didn't need "hacky" gear to make it work natively with Quake.
That being said, I made the package for Quake Expo 2006 as an all-out assault on all the questions of newbies getting setup to map for Quake and was tired of watching the Three Stooges like "clear as mud" instructions that followed (what map compiler? Where do I put it? How to I set it up? What folder? What do I use for textures? How do I configure it? What settings on the setup page? What about x, y, z ...).
It has been largely successful in that and has been downloaded a very large number of times (10,000 +/-).
That being said, the BSP map editor and Quark and even Worldcraft 1.6 are commonly used to make high quality maps today.
Links for about 75% of the most important resources in Quake modding: http://www.quakeone.com/navigator
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Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |

for the basics i use. Milkshape - modeling/animation/model formatting. 3ds max - modeling/uv mapping. QME full - model conversion/compilation/ basic editing. wally - textures/formatting.
photoshop - textures.
and worldcraft 3.3 with the quake adapter. - mapping.
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QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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Arkage Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Posts: 27 |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: |

I would put my vote with Worldcraft v3.3 with Bakers Quake Adepter. It has a nice straight forward easy to use UI, leavening more time to work on the mapping. All in my opion by the way. The best option would be to try the editors mentioned here and see what one suits you the best.

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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |

Baker... I could post 20 images of maps done with other editors. You're being suggestive. If you advertise something that changes something as fundamental as the file format, please provide a way for mappers to convert them to the usual format. QUARK failed converting them properly, Scrama's tool failed for two of us (it's in Russian, too), Radiant couldn't import them properly.
WC's file format broke our workflow. Not that most people care about something like that, except those who know how important a good workflow is. We had to experiment for hours to finally convert it by guesswork basically.
Again, if you sit at home in your little chamber and map, you will not notice this problem, but if you're part of an international dev team with a halfway professional setup, this WILL irk you.
No, I won't switch to Worldcraft just to be able to use Worldcraft's map files. Why should I?
Do you honestly not see the problem here?
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ReMakeQuake
The Realm of Blog Magic

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |

AFAIK the problem with maps saved in QuArK format was the use of floating point values for coordinates, correct ? Is it the same problem with other tools ? _________________ frag.machine - Q2K4 Project http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |

goldenboy wrote:
Do you honestly not see the problem here?

When someone posts detailed instructions on setting up NetRadiant or Quark to map for Quake, let me know.
Until that time comes, Worldcraft 3.3 is clearly the one that newbies can most easily setup for Quake. BSP is probably a somewhat close 2nd.
I'm not so much in the business of answering questions as seeing they don't even need to be asked [I'm about user-friendliness in design].
Why am I the only one in any community capable of making map editor setup instructions for Quake or a nice package for doing so?
THIS is the problem. I see what you are saying, but I'm all about helping the newbies. Experts have to fend for their own interests. Yes Worldcraft 3.3 isn't a friendly option for working with team members that use other map editors such as Quark.
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Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |

QuArK is miles easier for newbies. _________________ Quake Maps

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Chip Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Posts: 314 Location: Romania |

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |

Spirit wrote:
QuArK is miles easier for newbies.

Yes, but if you decide to update it, the configuration gets messed. Also, there are tons of errors, and it requires Quake's original PAK files to work correctly. And sometimes, it messes them, too.
I did a couple of maps, and it's really easy to work with QuArK. If it wasn't for the configuration, I would have created more maps with it.
I'll have to use WorldCraft. Didn't use it for years, now.
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My Projects: Quake 1 Mods | OpenQuartz 2 | ChipQuake

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Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: |

Agreed. If Quark was properly functioning I would have made maps too. It is easy but it sucks. _________________ Quake Maps

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