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Spike



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 944
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baker wrote:
But really, Spike said enough ...


Four months ago, I might add.
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Baker



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://connect.creativelabs.com/developer/Gaming

Quote:
To specify an environment, use an integer constant defined in the eax.h file.
Those environment constants are:
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_GENERIC
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_PADDEDCELL
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_ROOM
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_BATHROOM
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_LIVINGROOM
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_STONEROOM
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_AUDITORIUM
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_CONCERTHALL
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_CAVE
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_ARENA
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_HANGAR
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_CARPETEDHALLWAY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_HALLWAY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_STONECORRIDOR
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_ALLEY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_FOREST
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_CITY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_MOUNTAINS
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_QUARRY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_PLAIN
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_PARKINGLOT
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_SEWERPIPE
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_UNDERWATER
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_DRUGGED
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_DIZZY
n EAX_ENVIRONMENT_PSYCHOTIC


Looks like the basics of this could probably be used fairly easily.

/But using it in a non-hacky way would require some work
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Spike



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EAX can provide finer control than that.
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mh



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They look like the very same preset effects that DirectSound provides (as well as finer control through custom effects).

Quote:
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_DEFAULT
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_GENERIC
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_PADDEDCELL
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_ROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_BATHROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_LIVINGROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_STONEROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_AUDITORIUM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_CONCERTHALL
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_CAVE
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_ARENA
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_HANGAR
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_CARPETEDHALLWAY
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_HALLWAY
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_STONECORRIDOR
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_ALLEY
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_FOREST
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_CITY
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_MOUNTAINS
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_QUARRY
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_PLAIN
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_PARKINGLOT
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_SEWERPIPE
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_UNDERWATER
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_SMALLROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_MEDIUMROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_LARGEROOM
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_MEDIUMHALL
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_LARGEHALL
DSFX_I3DL2_ENVIRONMENT_PRESET_PLATE

I think the presets look fine for Quake usage; maybe create a number of Secondary Buffers each of which has an effect assigned to it (I'm thinking stone room, cave, stone corridor, underwater, and perhaps one of drugged or dizzy for pain scenes), then mix the sound in software into the appropriate secondary buffer depending on the environment. This is much the same way as Quake already does things (mixing in software into a secondary buffer) only the actual secondary buffer that's used can be selectable. It should be possible to determine which of the "above water" effects to use depending on factors like the amount of visible surfs (more = a larger environment) and whether or not sky is visible. Hacky alright, but might be serviceable enough.

It'll require a bit of jiggerypokery in the sound code to make the secondary buffer being used selectable of course, but should be doable enough.
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Urre



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is actually implemented, it'd need to be made into builtins for qc if anything, not hacky ways to determine which is appropriate in the current scene decided by engine alone. Engine handling postprocessing effects on sounds is only appropriate if it has a true 3D sound engine, which can bounce sounds off the environment, with modifier values in the surfaces shader files. Static effects like these are best left for the modder, cause you can never handle all cases appropriately.
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FrikaC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MDave wrote:
But it still lacks things HL does. And it doesn't have a software rendering mode. Sad And there is no chance of porting the engine to an embedded device or other low spec platforms because of its much higher requirements Razz This might not sound important to people that just like to mod on the PC, but its rather important for people that use it on other devices or platforms.

I love QC though Smile


Quake has software and has been ported to loads of other platforms already. The things in DP that require a higher spec machine are not typically the things that mods really require. So right now, making a mod for Quake is already super portable and you can use the DP features optionally on the PC.

My hope is that people who make ports of Quake start integrating some of the DP modding features in the future, but there really isn't a good source base for them to do so right now.

Half Life is a mess to mod for, complicated even more now with Steam.
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mh



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urre wrote:
If this is actually implemented, it'd need to be made into builtins for qc if anything, not hacky ways to determine which is appropriate in the current scene decided by engine alone. Engine handling postprocessing effects on sounds is only appropriate if it has a true 3D sound engine, which can bounce sounds off the environment, with modifier values in the surfaces shader files. Static effects like these are best left for the modder, cause you can never handle all cases appropriately.

True enough, but I wonder how many modders would use them. Would any modders use them?

I was also thinking that maybe an extension to the BSP file would be another way.

Anyway, that aside, I think underwater is fair game for the engine - it's already done with graphics (GLQuake, WinQuake, any engines that do underwater warps) so it's expected behaviour.
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FrikaC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I'd prefer the engine to try to determine the effect to use, but provide some builtin to override it in the cases the mod wants to use something specific or potentially different from what the auto-determination does.

I think that should be the general model for modder/engine stuff - do whatever you want engine side but give a way for the modder to alter it if it doesn't fit their mod and a way for the players to disable it if they don't like the effect.
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Urre



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frik said it.

But yeah I can see modders using it, I would. But then again I only use DP (cause of the modder features).
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