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Latest Conquest version

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What's the main thing I should work on next?

More Weapons & Weapon MODs |

0%
[ 0 ]
More Monsters (suggestions are welcome) |

0%
[ 0 ]
More new weapons & attacks for monsters |

0%
[ 0 ]
More types of Shields |

0%
[ 0 ]
The Town |

70%
[ 7 ]
Raising your own monsters to fight along side you |

20%
[ 2 ]
Better models for weapons, monsters, player, etc (I'd need lots of help with that) |

0%
[ 0 ]
Making the mod stand-alone (I'd need even more help with this one) |

10%
[ 1 ]
Adding "templates" the player can get at the shop, which basically buy and equip a group of weapons/shields (like for Soldier, Pyro, Sniper, etc) |

0%
[ 0 ]
Other/It doesn't matter |

0%
[ 0 ]

Total Votes : 10

Author | Message
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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:48 am Post subject: Latest Conquest version |

I'm finally updating Conquest with the most recent changes. You can download it here. Keep in mind that it only works well for Darkplaces, unless another engine supports FRIK_FILE. It should still run without crashing in other engines, but it will run very poorly and a lot of features will be missing.
impulse 254 is the money cheat, for those of you who don't want to play long enough to afford the weapons you want to test.
Some changes worthy of notice:
Check out the Horror monster that currently replaces Wizards. They're way over-powered right now (they'll replace wizards later in the game, when the player needs a challenge), so be sure to take them on with lots of armor and firepower.
New weapons for the player: changed pulse rifle (bullets look different), The Li'l Ripper and the Razor blades, two Sniper Rifles, Beam Turrets and Flamer Turrets, Flak Cannon, zooming for the sniper rifle and a host of other weapons, quick rockets and incendiary rockets.
Added new attacks for the grunts & ogres. Other monsters will get more soon. It's still in the testing stage so the monsters aren't very well defined, they're just randomly picking a weapon to attack with. That will change.
Monsters have always been easy to exploit in coop by having two players attack them so they can't decide on a new target. The same trick worked in starting monster in-fighting. Now monsters will become less likely to get angry with each time they switch targets, so after a few attacks it won't respond much anymore (making the monster harder to fool). Monsters will still fight each other, but they'll become more desensitized with each incident.
Gave the shop main menu a major re-working. It now lists Weapons, Shields, and Misc and opens into sub-menus when one is selected. You can also access the weapon mods menu from main (instead of pressing 9 from the buy weapons menu).
Reduced the health gained from health boxes from 15, 25 and 100 to 5, 15, and 50. Go buy some decent shielding!
Some questions:
1. Earlier FrikaC mentioned that there wasn't enough variety in the weapons to create many player classes, like Sniper, Pyro, etc. I agreed with him at the time, and I've since tried to cover a little more ground. So, how about now?
2. Is anything too cheap? Too expensive?
3. The poll question at the top of this thread.
Feedback is the air I breath, so please post other comments as well!
_________________
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: |

I played it again, and I still like this mod /me votes for the Town A few things noticed while playing: I know it's kind of a given feature when you have coins, but I still love how tougher monsters give more coinage In Quake, there was no reason to want to fight a tougher monster as opposed to a weaker one, unless you had to, since they do nothing but eat up more ammo. I think the addition of the town, and selecting which level to 'conquer' again will be cool, because you can actually in a way select what kind of monsters you want to fight. However, the Quake maps were all pretty similar... I think it would be cool if you completely overwrote all the monster placements in all the maps (perhaps by renaming the monster classnames so the originals don't show up, and creating .ENT files to put new ones in), creating unique environments that have some sort of twist: Zombie land, Shambler nest, etc.
And some general bugs: if you run out of ammo and fire, it still seems to play the firing animation although nothing happens. Not sure if this happens on all weapons though. Also, certain actions, for example, holding down the charger on that ball shooting gun (which I might add has no charging sound) seems to wake monsters up anyway. I think you should only have the actual firing action wake up monsters. (and perhaps to make melee weapons a bit more interesting, make them silent, or perhaps only monsters very close will hear them). Also, there are some model weirdnesses, such as the pistol model seeming to be very large (models placed in the right location will look the same no matter what their scale was, but models that are bigger in the model file will poke through walls. You can see that the pistol pokes through walls quite nicely).
I didn't buy too many weapons, but I played on medium, and it seemed too easy. I never bought any shields or whatnot, and after discovering the cheap and easy setup of buying the pistol, loading it with ammo, then upgrading it to that red one (the $700) seems to be unfairly easy: for example, knights will go out in two shots, raking in $250. If you want the game to last longer (i.e., people won't get bored as fast doing the usual town-level-town-level routine), I suggest very unique and tough challenges on each map. Otherwise the player will just remember which level makes the easiest cash, and just whip through that level over and over... Unfortunately, I can't think of any real suggestions... I just noticed that the game seems to go by too fast (after 10 minutes of playing, you probably have enough dough for the most powerful weapon). Probably because monsters give a lot of cash, which is because ammo runs out fairly quickly... Again, not sure how to solve this
I hope that helped a bit... though I must say again great mod! and I can't wait for the town

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |

Wazat, you should really take Sajt's suggestions there to heart. The idea of using a HUB map from which you go to the old quake maps, reusing content is brilliant in the sense that you have a huge world at an instant, but it is a bad idea in the sense that we've all played those maps to death and beyond. I'd personally suggest some majorly dynamic events and setups to make this interesting. Simply randomizing monster spawns, and themed areas as Sajt said, are great and fairly simple solutions. Other interesting things you could do would be to randomize (to a certain extent ofcourse) key locations, or perhaps key requirements, requiring you to take new paths and such. Monsters roaming the maps is always cool too. Don't be afraid to greatly enhance the monster behaviour and AI, we've seen the movetogoal deal for quite some time now. Just, think of the game in a long life scale, what would keep players there? New things ofcourse, and randomizing stuff like this is a great way to simulate "newness" .
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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:32 pm Post subject: |

Even though all the above things summarize to this, I feel I need to supplement the last post with saying that, make the world seem alive. Give the monsters a purpose to be there, and give them personality. That will increase the feel of realism, generally making it more convincing and fun to play.
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Look out for Twigboy

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: |

Was just playing Conquest - really nice btw - and figured if there were new levels, good md3 models, new textures, etc. this could be a really cool game! It's your choice, obviously, but I think you could go places with that if you got a team together to make maps, md3's, etc. DarkPlaces is just that good
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http://entar.quakedev.com
games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |

Wow, I've got a lot to reply to. Sajt: Yea, I like the system of having things to pick up from monsters. Money, items, etc. It increases your drive to engage in epic battle, rather than just running past because you can't be bothered. However, I'm giving the player *way* too much money at the moment. He's actually getting two different sources of cash: instantly paid when killing the monster (which isn't printing a message to the screen; need to change that), and the gold he picks up from the body. Later I'm going to make them two different currencies, and the player has to convert the gold into credits at the town before he can spend it (although there will be some rare shops that accept only gold, in exchange for valuable items). I'll be reducing the amount of money the player gets too.
I really want to get revisiting maps and selecting where to go next implemented. That way the player can revisit places he wants to, as you mentioned, and even pick which campaign missions to play. And, as you said, the original Quake maps are getting really, really boring, especially for us modders who have revisited the same sites over and over... I'd like to perform some randomization on the monster placement like I did with weapons in Ace of Nails, where it's seemingly random placement, yet it's the same every time you visit the map (so the player can't just keep retrying until he gets an easy battle).
Changing the monsters' weapons has been another step to spice things up, and I've been trying to collect monster models, Bio and Mechanical, to populate my levels with. I'd even like to have the monster randomization code try to keep a certain level of consistancy in the types of monsters, so that robots are together instead of randomly mixed with demons (although in some situations that is fitting).
I like the idea of Zombie Land, Shambler's nest, etc. This may even be a way for the player to collect eggs for the monsters he wants to raise.. but mostly I want to have the maps be interesting and fun.
Here's a thought on some levels I want to be available to the player as side-quests:
Demon lairs - The monsters in these levels continually respawn when the player is elsewhere, so it's a constant fight. The monsters are quite powerful, but killing them gets the player lots of experience and cash, and there are treasures to be found there as well. I'd like most of the lairs to follow a theme, such as shambler lair, shalrath nest, droid construction area, etc.
Siege levels - The player must assault the enemy stronghold, be it a castle or dungeon or millitary installation. He may have allies beyond just his monsters, but mostly he'll be seeking to push his way into the enemy base and secure it on his own merits alone (the allies won't be a major help). I'd also like to have maps where his job is to defend an area against hoards of demons, air ships, droids, and other enemies coming in swarms and waves.
Speed Maps - The player has to run through the level as quickly as possible to beat a time limit. A special item or cash reward awaits his success.
Arena - The player gets to fight in an arena against swarms of enemies and participate in boss fights. Besides the arena bosses, he can also do battle against boss enemies he has defeated in the past during the normal storyline.
Challenge maps - Levels that are so hard to beat, only master players are expected to complete many of them. For those who really want to test their skills and put their weapons to work.
Original Quake Maps - The player can re-visit the Quake levels of old.
Normal Story - The player progresses through these maps in order to advance the storyline. He will have allies with him, and each major chapter will usually end in a finale or challenging boss fight. As more and more of these levels are beaten (and as the player finds secrets), the player unlocks other optional quests, such as Demon Lairs, Speed maps, Arena battles and bosses, and Challenge Maps. I'd also like to make it so that the player gets bonus money and rewards for doing the extra-ordinary, like killing all monsters in the level, finding secrets, etc.
I'm really shooting high with all that, but when I imagine the mod in its finished form, it would have a lot of that available to the player, perhaps more.
I'm aware of the bug where the firing frames can still play when you're out of ammo. This is because I disabled the function that checks if the player is out of ammo and changes his weapon when necessary. It was too much effort to maintain when I was just getting this mod started. It's really time I start tearing through the whole mod to clean it up. There's still tons of stuff that remains from Jeht, for example.
That's a good idea to have some melee weapons and charging weapons not wake up enemies until it makes sense to do so. I know of a good way to fix that, so I'll try to remember to get it done (but I have so much homework ).
Hmm.. I wasn't aware that the pistol was poking through walls. I'll try to work that out.
You're right, some weapons are *way* too cheap (the slugger MOD needs to be way more expensive, for example), and the player gets far too much money overall. I'll be reducing that problem soon, especially once I get the town put together. It's going to be very boring for the player if things get too easy or too hard.
As for knights, I'm actually considering making them fodder: several of them spawn in one place (where space permits), so that there's a lot of them but they can be brought down easily. I'll do the same with grunts and dogs, and a few other enemies. There will also be medium and heavy-weight enemies for the player to fight.
Having very unique and tough challenges on each map is a very good suggestion. The boring routine of "go to town, go to level, beat level, go to town, go to level" will kill a game if there's nothing in the middle to provide variety and challenge. This is one more reason for me to not rely on the original Quake maps, though I hate to admit it. I'm really afraid of putting a team together, and then having the mod go flop on everyone. Scares me to death, actually.
Urre:
I really hate it when people take me out of my comfort zone, especially when they're right. I'm going to try to take you guys' advise to heart, and make the original Quake maps either very different, or simply a side quest that the player earns access to as he plays through the real campaign. I have a fairly effective randomizer in Ace of Nails that will randomize weapons in an organized manner (so that every time you visit the map they'll be in the same place, even though they're different from before). That could be applied to the monsters. However, perhaps truely randomizing the monsters so that they're different and surprising every time would be even better?
I have a question about making the player take different paths: How would I do that? Perhaps changing what doors start open on a map-by-map basis? That's very much out of my realm, but I could probably learn how to make .ent files. However, it'd be awesome if someone else knew how to do that and was willing to work with me. I just have an anxiety toward having a team because I fear failing them.

Quote:
Give the monsters a purpose to be there, and give them personality.

I agree. The monsters in Quake are fairly primitive, and devoid of interesting behavior. What quirks and points of interest they do have are lost because we've all grown so accustomed to them. So, I really want to make new monsters, lots of new monsters, and make some huge changes to the personalities of the old.
This is what I was attempting with the Horror monster, which is temporarily replacing the Wizard. I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Horror will actually fall out of the sky in pain sometimes when you shoot it, which often knocks it out of your sights and makes you re-adjust. Often when I set one on fire it falls into the water and puts the fire out. Other times its reaction to pain works to its disadvantage because it falls on the floor and becomes vulnerable. When the Horror attacks by spitting at you, it often afflicts you with Burning, Poison or Slow, depending on its attribute. If you let it get close, it will chew your face off at an alarming rate. However, it does have one problem with getting along with other monsters, because it often spits in whatever direction it's looking, frequently including other monsters in the crossfire, which can raise tensions with its allies and cause infighting.
This is how I envision all the monsters of finished Conquest: The each have their own personalities, dangers, weaknesses, AI, and quirks. I don't know if I'll ever be up to the task, but I'm gonna try.
^_^
Entrar: I'd love to make Conquest into a visual feast, with new levels, graphics, high-quality MD3 models, music, and perhaps even movies or cutscenes.
However, I've been sticking to the shadows with this mod for a very good reason. Like I've said, I really struggle with being a good teammate, because real life has me by the throat 90% of the time, and I really don't want to have people put so much effort into a mod and then let it drop because I can't keep it up anymore. I also want to have a good 80% of the mod done before I start recruiting, because then I'll be close enough to the finishing line that it will no longer "just be a side project" to me. That will also help in recruiting, so I can get some of the more professional people on my side. Another issue is pride: I really want to have something good to show before I start asking for help. I've always distrusted newbies who show up in modding forums with grand plans and high hopes, in an attempt to recruit the best of the best to make their mod for them. Some of these people create awesome mods, but the going record isn't in most of these people's favor. I'm deathly afraid of being seen that way by the modelling/mapping communities: just some cocky coder who wants them to do make maps for his mod and do his mod for him.
...which brings me to my last major concern. Mappers and modellers don't seem to like me, or coders, but especially not me. My experiences on Qmap and func_messageboard taught me to basically be self-sufficient and stop bugging the mappers and seeking their help. They don't even want me associating with them. I'd hate to go back there and start bothering them again. I doubt it would be fruitful.
Anyway, to all of the above, this is why Jeht, Ace of Nails, and all my other mods have been mostly deathmatch-oriented, with limited models and such. I scrape up what I can find lying around instead of asking for commitments because I figure the mod could die at any time, and I'm afraid to disappoint people. It happened to Ace of Nails, QTactics, Quake-e-mon, and a host of others. 90% of my mod ideas fail, regardless of how far I get on them. Jeht is about the only mod I have that I'm satisfied that I completed and I'm mostly happy with. And Battlemech & Galactix, though I still refuse to believe I was involved in those. -_^
I really want to make Conquest an awesome mod, and I'd love to have other people be a part of the develoment process, especially since they know a lot of things I don't, and have skills and abilities I'd almost kill to have. It's just that itching feeling on the back of my mind that warns me of setting my sights so high I stall the plane and kill everyone inside. o_0
And my, I've been ranting a long time!
Anyway, I'll take you guy's advice. Variety and personality are very important, and I'd love to start using higher-quality models and start taking some more pride in the visual aspect of the mod. I'd be great if I could get some friends to start making a campaign, or at least the monster dungeons & siege maps to start with. And a town.
And, it looks like the town is the next high priority. I should at least get a beta version running as a place-holder (a more refined map made by someone who's good at level design can come later). I'll get working on that ASAP.... aaaaas soon as homework is out of the way.
_________________
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject: |

Wazat wrote:
Wow, I've got a lot to reply to. Entrar: I'd love to make Conquest into a visual feast, with new levels, graphics, high-quality MD3 models, music, and perhaps even movies or cutscenes. However, I've been sticking to the shadows with this mod for a very good reason. Like I've said, I really struggle with being a good teammate, because real life has me by the throat 90% of the time, and I really don't want to have people put so much effort into a mod and then let it drop because I can't keep it up anymore. I also want to have a good 80% of the mod done before I start recruiting, because then I'll be close enough to the finishing line that it will no longer "just be a side project" to me. That will also help in recruiting, so I can get some of the more professional people on my side. Another issue is pride: I really want to have something good to show before I start asking for help. I've always distrusted newbies who show up in modding forums with grand plans and high hopes, in an attempt to recruit the best of the best to make their mod for them. Some of these people create awesome mods, but the going record isn't in most of these people's favor. I'm deathly afraid of being seen that way by the modelling/mapping communities: just some cocky coder who wants them to do make maps for his mod and do his mod for him.
...which brings me to my last major concern. Mappers and modellers don't seem to like me, or coders, but especially not me. My experiences on Qmap and func_messageboard taught me to basically be self-sufficient and stop bugging the mappers and seeking their help. They don't even want me associating with them. I'd hate to go back there and start bothering them again. I doubt it would be fruitful.
Anyway, to all of the above, this is why Jeht, Ace of Nails, and all my other mods have been mostly deathmatch-oriented, with limited models and such. I scrape up what I can find lying around instead of asking for commitments because I figure the mod could die at any time, and I'm afraid to disappoint people. It happened to Ace of Nails, QTactics, Quake-e-mon, and a host of others. 90% of my mod ideas fail, regardless of how far I get on them. Jeht is about the only mod I have that I'm satisfied that I completed and I'm mostly happy with. And Battlemech & Galactix, though I still refuse to believe I was involved in those. -_^
I really want to make Conquest an awesome mod, and I'd love to have other people be a part of the develoment process, especially since they know a lot of things I don't, and have skills and abilities I'd almost kill to have. It's just that itching feeling on the back of my mind that warns me of setting my sights so high I stall the plane and kill everyone inside. o_0

Like you said, I think you should get the mod to its near max performance, so then you have something to show the mappers / modelers etc.
Never get discouraged, and never, EVER give up!
_________________
woh... feelin woozy... too much cider...
http://entar.quakedev.com
games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:10 am Post subject: |

Here's what I have so far on the town. What does everyone think? It's obviously just a start, but hopefully it's not completely off the wall. Just unzip it into your Conquest/maps folder and run DP, then type "map town". _________________ When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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Tei Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 195 |

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject: |

I have testet the last version on my brother computer and work Ok

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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject: |

Please go to this thread and give feedback on how to best make the town portal work. It's the most important part of the town, and I'm hungry for suggestions. Attached is the most recent town map build. _________________ When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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