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lth Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: Why are we still here? |

Just out of interest. Someone was talking about getting ragdoll in Quake over on the coding boards and that set me to thinking - if you want ragdoll then why not mod for UT instead? Essentially, my question is this - what makes Quake worth modding for still, rather than moving onto a new engine? Particularly if all that's going to happen is that the features from newer games (very slowly) get ported into Q1. See also gyro2 - an excellent piece of work, I'm sure, but if we need a qc library just to get sensible physics, why are we not modding for games that already have those sensible physics?
This isn't an attack on anyone at all, I just want to get to the bottom of the question of what the Q1 modding community sees itself as standing for, as being for, these days.
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Lardarse Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 243 Location: Bristol, UK |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |

For me, it's a place of refuge, and an excuse to not be modding for Q3 again...

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Quake Matt Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |

'cuz I like Quake. My second stop would probably be UT'99, but I don't really feel like learning UnrealScript. Quake's atmosphere and style hasn't really been seen in any other modder-friendly games, so your choices are pretty limited if you want to play with demons and castles.
Of course, for things like ragdolls, it's sometimes just to see if it can be done.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: |

LTH EVOLVE INTO CHAZZ 2.0 ENGAGE

lth wrote:
why are we not modding for games that already have those sensible physics?

because those games suck?
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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we still here? |

lth wrote:
Just out of interest. Someone was talking about getting ragdoll in Quake over on the coding boards and that set me to thinking - if you want ragdoll then why not mod for UT instead? Essentially, my question is this - what makes Quake worth modding for still, rather than moving onto a new engine? Particularly if all that's going to happen is that the features from newer games (very slowly) get ported into Q1. See also gyro2 - an excellent piece of work, I'm sure, but if we need a qc library just to get sensible physics, why are we not modding for games that already have those sensible physics?
This isn't an attack on anyone at all, I just want to get to the bottom of the question of what the Q1 modding community sees itself as standing for, as being for, these days.

Well... For me it's like this:
1. UT's not very...Compact (Disk Space) nor is it exactly Modder friendly in terms of it's model, music tools, and it's code, unlike Quake and QuakeC. (Yeah, yeah, some people are going to argue with me, but I've looked at just what the hell you have to do to even get a model into the Unreal engine, and well... *shudders*)
2. Unreal's monsters aren't really as nice as Quake's. I mean, just take a look. Pretty much every damn thing in Unreal has a ranged attack, rather than quake with it's wide diversity of monsters that fight you with ranged attacks, or even jump right into your face to whoop it down on you at melee range.
3. Gameplay. 'nuff said.
4. Artwork. Not in any other game are the enviroments so varied. Runic Metal, Medieval, Tech, and oh so much more!
5. Love. Once again, 'nuff said.
6. The Unknown. There's just this element about quake, that's hard for me to put my finger on. No matter what, Quake almost always seems to feel fresh to me. This Unknown element always seems to be lacking in all the newer games.
If given the choice, I can quite honestly say that I would not be modding for any other game than Quake, as of this time.
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lth Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |

If you don't have anything useful to say, CheapAlert, try shutting the fuck up, eh? Everyone else around here seems to be able to have a reasonable discussion so let the interesting and intelligent people do the talking. Also, I remember Chazz (one time around, anyway) and I take that as a serious insult so you should probably think about taking it back and apologizing.
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Error Inside3D Staff Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 558 Location: VA, USA

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |

I tried UnrealScript for a few months once. It sucks. There's really nothing like Quake and/or QuakeC. This is where I belong. My goal is to not let this community die or kill itself (note: I3D remake & Quake Archive). This has been my home for the last 10 years... why ditch it now, especially since we get all these new features to make it worth it. We mod, we get things, which make us continue to want to mod.
LordHavoc thank you for Darkplaces.
Also thanks to Spike and the FTE guys for.... FTEQW
I love this community and I'd do anything to keep it up.
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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |

Quote:
Someone was talking about getting ragdoll in Quake over on the coding boards and that set me to thinking - if you want ragdoll then why not mod for UT instead?

Because then I would have to port all the items, monsters, and client behavior to UT ? And then I would need maps that worked well with them also. Easier to move 1 element than 40.

Quote:
what makes Quake worth modding for still, rather than moving onto a new engine?

It depends, are you looking for flexibility and freedom? If so then Quake is your choice. If you are looking for technology, Quake is still a significant choice if you choose to go with DarkPlaces, but there are others that have good tech. If you are looking for numbers of players (which is valid for certain projects), then you may want to look at another community with a larger userbase - but understand that if that other community is young, then its userbase is most likely fickle as well, and thus in 2 years time you could be left with something smaller than the Quake community as the websites and creators leave it be once unit sales rapidly decline.
There is also the simple fact that many of us like what we have to work with in the Quake universe, we like the fiends, organic buzzsaws rife with pummeling power, as well as discharging thunderbolts and all the other fun quirks of the game. We love a menacing purple sky.

Quote:
if we need a qc library just to get sensible physics, why are we not modding for games that already have those sensible physics?

I would return to my point of porting elements. More than likely someone doesnt want sensible physics in the Quake engine just because they want sensible physics - it means they want sensible physics, with the QuakeC scripting language, and the Quake engine itself and how it handles things, and in many cases along with the monster and weapon set.
I would love to see Quake get full blown ragdoll, and ultimately move completely into a unified lighting system - not because those things are on the whole and ultimately good, but because they can improve Quake, the very thing that I hold to be ultimately good, the irreplacable variable, the meat that you can season with any new spices, but spices do not make a meal alone.
I enjoy other games, but when I want to mod Quake, I want to mod Quake and not Unreal, or Half Life, or anything else. And that is not a negative to those games - but they instill significantly less passion in me. And frankly all in all, I think Quake still has most of the cards in its hand.

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ajay Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Swindon, UK |

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |

Because: I could be wrong, but I still don't think you get the range of mods for any other game. Modding for other games gets prohibitively (for me, maybe most) time consuming and complex. Esepcially art stuff, models etc. I just about struggle along with qc, I have no motivation to learn anything less flexible and user-friendly.
The community, this place, is like a warm, cuddily, blanket.
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Lardarse Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 243 Location: Bristol, UK |

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |

That's another thing. The community is mostly very welcoming, unlike some other communities. They also know what they are talking about, and know who to tell you to ask if they don't know.

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Supa Joined: 26 Oct 2004 Posts: 122 |

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |

ajay & Lardarse beat me to it - the community. I stick around not so much for Quake itself (I don't have very much time for modding nowadays and even less for playing) but because the community is one of the best I've ever encountered. I've yet to see a smarter, more good natured community then the Quake development community (and I've looked =) ).
Quake brought us here, but it's the community that keeps us together.

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Why are we still here? |

lth wrote:
Essentially, my question is this - what makes Quake worth modding for still, rather than moving onto a new engine?

With the engine source code made open source, there's no point. DarkPlaces and FTEQW are some of the most advanced engines anywhere, not to mention all the other good Quake-based engines out there.
QuakeC is still the most versatile modding language I've seen (not that I've seen a whole lot, but still). With newer engines, you can use spectacular particle effects, bumpmapping and other lighting effects, Q3BSP support, etc. The community rocks. Quake is not that hard to map for either.
All in all, it's the ideal mod development environment; I learned to program starting with the Quake engine, so I have a certain attachment anyways.
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HeadThump Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Zin |

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |

For me -- it's the game itself. I enjoy a good many shooters, and modded for Thief and No One Lives Forever. I really have no complaints about either, except the Thief map editor, Dromed. is crappy. I had played Quake when it first came out, along with the expansion packs and some of the custom maps and episodes that came out in the 97-98 time period. Though I admired the sheer creativity of the things being done, at some point Quake got uninstalled and I moved on to other games.
I can pinpoint the time I got interested in Quake again. I was browsing Planet HalfLife one day, and after boredly reading through it, I clicked on the PlanetQuake link just to browse a bit, and Necros' Gates of Midian release was announced. I liked the title so I downloaded the map, reinstalled Quake, and upon finishing Midian, I said to myself, 'Holy Fuck, that was amazing.'
I've been stuck on Quake ever since.

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TimeServ Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 15 |

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: |

I have no idea why I code for Quake. I should have stuck with Doom editing using Dehacked and making huge box levels with 30 cyberdemons.

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |

I mod for Quake mostly because I like the feel of the engine, and all the features it provides that aren't tapped into. QuakeC is powerful and using fun tricks and your imagination you're able to create some pretty awesome stuff; I also love getting the reaction "This is Quake?" when I present various mods to my friends!
Also, if you're modding for Half-Life/Unreal Tournament you're most likely going to need to assemble a team to create anything worth while (and we usually know the end result of that ...), with Quake it's a ton easier and friendlier (for me) and I'm able to create something completely different/fun/new/whatever by myself in a fraction of the time it takes to do in any newer games! We also have engine support backup that's easy to take advantage of.
Yeah, Quake wins!

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