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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: Quake really needs some generic .mdl open source models |

This is just an example but lately I've been watching a few DarkPlaces modding video mostly because people posted them here. And these videos always have someone using the old shitty rocket launcher or some other crusty old weapon when trying to demonstrate something non-shitty.
And if it has monsters, it is always some shitty ogres or fiends.
The mere presence of these crusty eyesore old relics is enough to suck away whatever neat feature or creation was in the video.

Quote:
Specifically: 1. I mean the weapons 2. I mean the monsters 3. I mean the shitty uberugly HUD

I was watching a texture blending video and I thought the texture blending and the hills were great, but seeing the shitty Quake HUD with the shitty rocket launcher and some shitty ogres and fiends really makes the example video look horrific.
Additionally, these shitty looking things detract from videos of most mods in general, like Transloquake.
Recently, I've been watching YouTubes of 5 year old games and even 10+ years old N64 stuff which blow these terrible Quake elements out of the water, especially the HUDs.
I mean some games have hundreds of fan-made models like a fleet of car model alternatives and weapons. Even the Kurok guy has 20 different weapons he made himself.
This is just a general observation, but most DarkPlaces videos just look so tasteless -- and the perception would be by a third party observer that the author of the video has poor taste.
Again, just an observation. A general question, I have no solution.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |

Well, i dont exactly know how to animate for quake yet, but i do know how to model. i could make some weapon models for some of the tutorials we have here so people can use them for their mods and such. i think it would spice up some of our mods around here. because my big problem with playing mods for quake is everything is very vanilla still. maybe we could get a group project going to help out people who arnt modelers content to work with, textures and more. we could call it like the quake developer kit or something?
EDIT: actually ill start making models for people to use in their mods. all downloads will be available on my site.
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |

ceriux wrote:
EDIT: actually ill start making models for people to use in their mods. all downloads will be available on my site.

If you do, you will be a hero to all.
An honest answer I would not say frequently due to the risk of hurting feelings is that it took a long time to grow appreciation for a lot of pure Quake mods because the videos and screenshots don't look becoming to the work the modder puts into it.
I came from an ignorant player background and as a "normal guy", you judge things by how cool it looks and screenshots.
I kept an open mind and now have enormous respect for the works of of the modding community because the beauty is in the ideas.
But I know perception counts and a lot of these mods are dressed up in rags, instead of being suave and stylish.
If some commonly available nice looking replacement content were available to dress up the appearance, it would make all the difference in the world.

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CocoT Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 599 Location: Belly-Gum |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |

Quote:
Additionally, these shitty looking things detract from videos of most mods in general, like Transloquake.

Hehe... I guess I feel ought to comment on that, also maybe because other modders might recognize their own situations in mine.
When it comes to Quake, I've always considered myself a modder first and foremost and by that I mean a QuakeC coder. What I like most is to screw around with the code and try to bend it to make it do the things I want it to do. Until transloquake, I didn't even map much at all (that explains why all my "older" mods (Quakability, Ultimate Quad Capture and also, in fact, InfraRed) were trying, in one way or another to "recycle" existing maps. Being a one-man team, the choice came mainly from, well, lack of time and ressources. I've changed my "philosphy" in the last couple of years or so because I realized that I had reached a point when doing this "recycling" just wouldn't be enough. Spacewalk was a (somewhat lame) attempt at creating maps easily. Transloquake, on the other hand, comes with its own maps and, boy, it slows down my modding so much (that and the fact that modding has of course also really just become a hobby on top of my professional activities).
Now, that said, modeling and things like retexturing have to be pushed on the bottom of my list, at least for the moment, simply because, otherwise, I'd end up spending years on single projects... and I also happen to suck ass at modeling. No, I mean, seriously. I'm horrible. I do hope to be able to tackle the models of a mod like Transloquake at one point or another, but at this point I just have too much fun coding and - yes - mapping for the mod to really want to spend the energy in learning how to model for it. I do understand your frustration, though, Baker. I, like many modders in here, would love it if I (or someone else) built models around our mods concepts but, hey, let's be serious here, we all know that's not going to happen, in the same in which, generally, many mappers won't start mapping for our mods if we don't hunt them down a little...
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |

I'm mostly trying to draw attention to a dire need. A coder isn't a coder because he can design maps, models or textures. If a few quality GPL models that were compatible with unmodified QuakeC plus a small variety of other models existed, in particular a weapon or 2, the presentation of various mods would strike a far better chord with people who happen to see it.
I've watched some Halo: Solitude for PSP Quake videos lately -- and this is for all practical purposes GLQuake using a different 256 color palette --- and weapons and sprites make it not look like it sucks donkey balls, even though the guy is walking around a map with architecture like a 1997 free-cd Quake map.
You guys just need a .pk3 with some non-ass looking stuff to make the mods look good to toss into your Quake dir.

CocoT wrote:
I, like many modders in here, would love it if I (or someone else) built models around our mods concepts but, hey, let's be serious here, we all know that's not going to happen

Actually, you don't "know" it's not going to happen.
All you know is that based on past experience that it hasn't happened.
Alter the course of the future and it changes.

Quote:
in the same in which, generally, many mappers won't start mapping for our mods if we don't hunt them down a little...

You certainly won't attract the bees with heinous models.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |

Im a fairly good modeler , texture artist and mapper some of the models i release wont have animations to them at first, but they will eventually once i start getting into animating for quake. just gotta play around a little more is all . hell i may even make different textures to some of the models so if someone uses one of the models they can make their's looks slightly different than another mods.
EDIT: ill even release all sources to the models and textures so they can be edited as needed.
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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |

Well, Preach has made some excellent open-gpl stuff. I used several of his models in my mods, and intended to use several more (in Conquest especially) before I crashed in my Quake development. Cheapy I think has also made a couple attempts at putting together a model repository of open-gpl models. Some of them are predictably terrible because he got them from the early Quake years (or they're not skinned/animated and are thus unusable by programmers), but others are quite good. His sites are probably still around in some form or another, and may have something you're looking for.
There have also been several Quake retexturing/remodeling projects that replaced all the textures & models in Quake with better looking stuff fitted for the new engines. Can somebody link to that? I used to have them at one time.
Despite all those resources, adequate art resources for modders is still a problem. Good looking weapon and monster models are really scarce compared to all the 1997 stuff that hasn't aged well at all. The lack of free-to-use models, sounds, HUD graphics, etc has been a problem for me in mods like Conquest and Battlemech. Had Cheapy and other I3D friends not risen to the challenge right on time, I wouldn't have even had enough graphics and sounds to replace all the Quake stuff so I could legally release Battlemech standalone. Thank heaven for friends.
It would be nice to have a few resources posted on the main site that would let us download (either directly or by a quick link to an offsite download) a complete texture set replacement, model replacement, and HUD replacement. I know for a fact that most of these exist. I just don't know where they are. :/
These would be a good thing to have installed before we record the movies for 100 Quake mods in 10 minutes, perhaps.
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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Quake really needs some generic .mdl open source models |

Baker wrote:
the old shitty rocket launcher some shitty ogres or fiends. shitty uberugly HUD

I knew you never loved Quake.

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |

I think the rocket launcher looks better than the replacements thus far, its low poly aspect gives it a brutality, where as other versions are simply... brown tubes? The hud is a matter of taste, but when it comes to demonstrating a mod via a video, does the mod even need to be displayed? And if you're using DP, can't you take the plunge into CSQC to make your own huds?
Actually the ogres and fiends don't look shitty, they look low-poly. They look better than many creatures in much more recent games, but they're low-poly, they're jagged looking and the skin is a low-res, but I still think they look better as monsters than most games. Quake has a rare thing in it, its called art design.
And this is the principle problem, designing good looking work which presents Quake mods well, but also matches with Quake in general so as to not require a graphics and thematic overhaul for all elements.
However, I don't think Quake looks shitty, just low poly.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |

here's a wip of an ak anyone can use for a for a weapon, i can either make a fully custom texture or edit the ref i used to fit the model. it doesnt have alot of detail, but im guessing thats the main reason for the word generic? anyways.... _________________
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |

Did you make that?

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |

the model yes, here, i just edited my reference pic to work as a texture that fits the model. hmm... i think i might see some bugs in my uv's but, thats what wip means lol ill see what i can do to make the model look better. _________________ QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |

I can't really agree on it looking ass, more like, I'm fed up with seeing either the shotgun or the rocketlauncher from Quake. All the time. I still love them for what they are, but after seeing them from 12 years, I wouldn't mind new models.
When it comes to weapons, I don't see why people don't just make their own. It's so stupidly easy, not to mention fun. QME is your friend!
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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |

qme actually sucks for modeling... use a real model editing program, you will get better results. edit: see what qme did to the texture on my weapon? even though it was already in quakes pallet... _________________ QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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CocoT Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 599 Location: Belly-Gum |

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |

Quote:
Actually, you don't "know" it's not going to happen. All you know is that based on past experience that it hasn't happened. Alter the course of the future and it changes.

It's true, I don't. And I'm sure that many people here will agree that I'm all about changing the course of [Quake's] future and keeping the community as lively as we can.
That said, I've also been around long enough (I think) to know it's better to be "humble" when it comes to our hopes and expectations about what we'd like to happen to Quake. I'd personally love to see more new models around.

Quote:
You certainly won't attract the bees with heinous models.

Now, on that (and then I think I'll just stop rambling on these issues altogether), I have some reservation. My view of the mapping community is that there are still a majority of mappers (I hate to view it as a monolothic entity, I do know it's made up of different personalities, but I guess there are some "traits" that stick out a little more than others) who, in fact, are not particularly interested in QuakeC novelties, engine eye-candy or new models...
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