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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |

Knowing how things usually go in life, we might end up with multiple stages of CSQC support in engines, instead of just (0|1). I see the risk of chaos ensuing, and the only safe options for modders being FTE and DP. _________________ ReMakeQuake
The Realm of Blog Magic

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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |

/random semi-off-topic rant The Quake1 hud is outdated anyway. - Using a number to show health. There are a number of games that nowdays work without a visible health number ( Modern Combat, etc.). Older games shows a bar. Probably the use of a number is the most outdated of all options.
- Using a number to show ammo. Well.. newer games seems to show a number + a bar.
- Showing the ammo of all weapons. The player don't need the rockets ammo wen is playing with a pistol. As a result this design is clutter on the screen. Maybe appropiate for Wolfestein 3D, but for all newer games is bad design.
- No coop friendly hud.
- No blood stains on the screen.
- Crosshair support for chase cam and third person mode (how consoles make TPS, think Batman: Archam Asylum)

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Chip Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Posts: 314 Location: Romania |

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: |

Teiman wrote:
/random semi-off-topic rant The Quake1 hud is outdated anyway. - Using a number to show health. There are a number of games that nowdays work without a visible health number ( Modern Combat, etc.). Older games shows a bar. Probably the use of a number is the most outdated of all options.
- Using a number to show ammo. Well.. newer games seems to show a number + a bar.
- Showing the ammo of all weapons. The player don't need the rockets ammo wen is playing with a pistol. As a result this design is clutter on the screen. Maybe appropiate for Wolfestein 3D, but for all newer games is bad design.
- No coop friendly hud.
- No blood stains on the screen.
- Crosshair support for chase cam and third person mode (how consoles make TPS, think Batman: Archam Asylum)

Exactly! A health system based on some graphic would be nice. And an easier way to work on the HUD.
The way I see implementing CSQC for the HUD, would be a checklist, a huge one, and ONLY ONE version of the CSQC code. Everyone involved could work on the same code, using a SVN system.
All changes should be checked in on the forums here, all revisions should be posted here and discussed prior to committing code. Beta testing is mandatory for each revision.
Teams should be assembled as coders, bug hunters, beta testers and suggestion givers and the occasional passers-by, of course.
No one can do this alone and have it consistent in all engines. It's a proven fact. Team working has the best results.
Just my opinion.
_________________
My Projects: Quake 1 Mods | OpenQuartz 2 | ChipQuake

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |

My understanding is that a csqc progs doesn't need the server to run necessarily. If one or two good CSQC hud sets and supporting csprogs.dat with source were supplied, you could create a frenzy of demand. I'm going to finish porting Spike's CSQC implementation to other engines.
.. Christmas and New Years sort of blew a hole in my time and slowed my momentum on that and other little projects that needed attention cropped up (the Solitude guys, 2 people bought servers in the NQ community and offered to run a then-theoretical "all mods" setup, etc.)
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Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |

CSQC generally needs the server to allow to load a csprogs. (Trust of the client then equates to trust of the csprogs that is has loaded). Its presumably reasonably easy to make an effective aimbot in csqc if you have entity info, hence the client requires that the csprogs matches one on the server. The alternative is to not tell it about ents. I suppose either works. With huds, that's not really an issue, but you can still make item timers.
Chip, your somewhat soviet comment has one major drawback... Engines... they tend to work quite differently under the hood, in terms of rendering (sw? gl? d3d?), in terms of interpolation, etc. But really those 'standard' 2d drawing functions suck. Sorry, but csqc has a lot of dependancies. Its not feasable to have csqc as a single module independant of the rest of the engine.
Read the comments in my winquake port. There's a lot of fixmes for things that I cannot provide in an otherwise unmodified engine, and each one will have it implemented differently. Sorry, but that's just the nature of it.
_________________
What's a signature?

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:38 am Post subject: |

I was suspecting as much Spike, thanks for clearing it out. I'm also afraid what goldenboy said would be true. It might just be best for engine devs to bite the bullet, those who dare to. Or someone awesome like Baker providing the engines with it
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Look out for Twigboy

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