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Whats your favorite version of Team Fortress

QuakeWorld TeamFortress |

25%
[ 4 ]
NetQuake TeamFortress |

37%
[ 6 ]
Custom TF |

25%
[ 4 ]
MegaTF |

12%
[ 2 ]

Total Votes : 16

Author | Message
--- | ---
Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: |

You do know that Darkplaces supports IQM, ragdoll (via Twig, I guess), and CSQC? So get to work

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |

Downsider wrote:
You do know that Darkplaces supports IQM, ragdoll (via Twig, I guess), and CSQC? So get to work

Yeah, i have a looooooong road ahead of me. Between code, sound and 3d art, I have to beat myself in with the hammer if I want to get things done. I have weird cosmeticcy things to try no TF variation will touch, like avatar customization, and both genders and maybe see the actual offhand grenade being thrown.
Who want's to map? Who want's to paint textures? Who want's to correct my apostrophe's? No one, cause i'm a perfectionist control freak as whole repulsive with so much lone stagnance with a vaporware status familiarily associated with open-source software!
Unless I dumb down and directly lift IP, no one will care really.
I did work on some of the glsl part of it though, trying to hack in some experimental anime-style shading and glowing (yeah, it's THAT kind of thing that will turn YOU HARDCORES OFF, but I haven't decided between soft or hard edges.)
oh btw this poll sucks without weapons factory, stc, q3f, tf2, tfc, tf 1.x, unrealfortress, wizard wars, monstertf, and tfq2 or q2tf or whatever that 5thD tf knockoff was.
_________________

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Team Xlink Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 320 |

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |

leileilol wrote:

Downsider wrote:
You do know that Darkplaces supports IQM, ragdoll (via Twig, I guess), and CSQC? So get to work

Yeah, i have a looooooong road ahead of me. Between code, sound and 3d art, I have to beat myself in with the hammer if I want to get things done. I have weird cosmeticcy things to try no TF variation will touch, like avatar customization, and both genders and maybe see the actual offhand grenade being thrown.
Who want's to map? Who want's to paint textures? Who want's to correct my apostrophe's? No one, cause i'm a perfectionist control freak as whole repulsive with so much lone stagnance with a vaporware status familiarily associated with open-source software!
Unless I dumb down and directly lift IP, no one will care really.
I did work on some of the glsl part of it though, trying to hack in some experimental anime-style shading and glowing (yeah, it's THAT kind of thing that will turn YOU HARDCORES OFF, but I haven't decided between soft or hard edges.)
oh btw this poll sucks without weapons factory, stc, q3f, tf2, tfc, tf 1.x, unrealfortress, wizard wars, monstertf, and tfq2 or q2tf or whatever that 5thD tf knockoff was.

It sounds awesome! Also, what kind of maps do you need to be created?
_________________

Anonymous wrote:
if it works, it works. if it doesn't, HAHAHA!

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:40 pm Post subject: |

MegaTF and CustomTF - though I do wish for a CSQC using CustomTF for a more friendly class building experience. I love original TF, MegaTF just added a little extra for me (and some of the servers thankfully didn't have the extra sounds). TF does in fact have the best intro of anything.
Valve's TF2 is a well produced abomination of which I do not wish to speak. It is a taint upon a (literal) childhood memory of good times and a shameful experience in how anxious Valve is to tap into the meme mindset of this generation of the internet. Its not modern, its just... timely.
_________________
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
Valve's TF2 is a well produced abomination of which I do not wish to speak. It is a taint upon a (literal) childhood memory of good times and a shameful experience in how anxious Valve is to tap into the meme mindset of this generation of the internet. Its not modern, its just... timely.

There, you hurt his feelings. I hope you're happy, now.
_________________
frag.machine - Q2K4 Project
http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:34 am Post subject: |

Appropriately performed. _________________ ...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |

Well, played the TFBots. Opinions: TF in general: Likes: Scenario gametypes! (things like rock1.bsp's gas the other team, or 2nuke2's get the keys to launch the nukes, etc.)
Detpackable stuff.
Dislikes:
Doubling up on the shotguns. Ehh.
Soldier has no rapid fire weapons, yet has BOTH shotguns and the rocket launcher. NOT what I consider to be a "basic" jack of all trades...
Dislike of all classes in general, though the Sniper and Demoman are tolerable. HWGuy is okay, but...well...at the rate he runs at, MAYBE you'll get to where you want to be before you get old. Conversely, the Scout moves way too fast.
Alias / Impulse glut raping my brain's memory capacity. This is absolutely needless and evile. (as in, just make aliases like ability1, ability2, ability3 work according to the class, e.g. scout's motion sensor / demoman's detpack timers, etc.)
TFBots:
Likes:
Occasional cool moments where it looks like the bots actually plan and execute a base attack properly.
Dislikes:
Bot Bugs, like invalid player skin bugs, running around as eyes bugs, ignoring enemy bots (was hilarious to watch tutorbot behavior with two bots running headfirst into each other and both turring 90 degrees and running parallel to each other on canyon1, not so hilarious to watch them guarding the base generator and completely ignore an enemy spybot attacking it in plain view.)
Br0kage of what makes TF neat, namely demoman's detpack opening / closing alternate routes, breakage of many of the scenario based gametypes, for example, 2nuke2's get launch keys for nukes, and on rock1 you don't even need to get the key from the warden's office to gas everybody. (I also never saw gasmasks...)
This makes me want to make a lowtech version of Hellsmash TF...
_________________
"Roboto suggests Plasma Bazooka."

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 am Post subject: |

I like TF2. I feel that the modern gamer doesn't care for rocket jumping and extreme twitch skills at this point. I believe that Valve essentially revived what was Team Fortress into what would be successful as Team Fortress. It's clear that Valve sees both sides and made a good choice, as TFC was a fast-paced Quake-like, but they chose a more typical audience for TF2. All in all, I think that if TF2 was more like Fortress Forever, which is what you're essentially asking for, it would've bombed. I personally love all three flavors I previously mentioned, TFC, Fortress Forever, and TF2. I'll agree I don't enjoy TF2 as much as I do Fortress Forever, but it's only because I like trickjumping and bunnyhopping. QWTF and any other Quake-based TF were way before my time. I'm only 15. I'm the embodiment of the modern gamer. I like TF2. Valve made a good choice. Most people old enough to have a childhood of TF to be ruined by Valve have jobs and families. If Valve targetted those people, they would've made no profit. I'm glad to see Team Fortress living on in the mainstream PC gaming community at all. Maybe when arcade-type shooters become popular again will we see a Team Fortress 4 with bunnyhopping and walljumping and flips and spirals and railguns and nailguns.. Without TF2, TF would've slipped out of mainstream altogether.
All in all, the above is probably really incoheret; I'm writing this in bed from my iPhone and I'm really tired from what I've done today.
My post is extremely incohesive

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |

Valve is good at monetary success, and rallying. Popularity however does not entail necessarily doing a good job, merely mildly exceeding contemporary expectations with compelling packaging. I don't care for trickjumps beyond a mild amusement, I oppose bunnyhopping and won't play on a server where it is prevalent, and I only care of rapid weapon switching when dealing with a diverse weapon set, which doesn't apply to TF.
Yes, if Valve targeted people with responsibilities they would not have as much of a steady base, but we are not measuring quality by financial success, and we never should - unless this is the only goal.
I have no desire to see anything living on in the mainstream if it means corrupting and debasing it. I don't want a sequel to Quake right now, because I don't trust it to be made without corrupting and debasing it. I would rather any thing of quality maintain its quality and survive in the standards and aspirations of its now aging fans, than for it to rot and become a greatly lesser form.
This is what Team Fortress has done in the hands of Valve, and I will not applaud it, any more than I would applaud a great artist becoming a prostitute because it held a higher return per hour at the cost of their production of art.
The mainstream is not something to seek, it is merely a location, and the only reason, other than profit, one can hope to enter it is to set a higher standard. Valve took something of a higher quality (by accident? its hard to say) and made it fit into the mainstream, not by raising the bar for the mainstream, but by lowering the quality of Team Fortress.
_________________
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
Valve is good at monetary success, and rallying. Popularity however does not entail necessarily doing a good job, merely mildly exceeding contemporary expectations with compelling packaging. I don't care for trickjumps beyond a mild amusement, I oppose bunnyhopping and won't play on a server where it is prevalent, and I only care of rapid weapon switching when dealing with a diverse weapon set, which doesn't apply to TF.
Yes, if Valve targeted people with responsibilities they would not have as much of a steady base, but we are not measuring quality by financial success, and we never should - unless this is the only goal.
I have no desire to see anything living on in the mainstream if it means corrupting and debasing it. I don't want a sequel to Quake right now, because I don't trust it to be made without corrupting and debasing it. I would rather any thing of quality maintain its quality and survive in the standards and aspirations of its now aging fans, than for it to rot and become a greatly lesser form.
This is what Team Fortress has done in the hands of Valve, and I will not applaud it, any more than I would applaud a great artist becoming a prostitute because it held a higher return per hour at the cost of their production of art.
The mainstream is not something to seek, it is merely a location, and the only reason, other than profit, one can hope to enter it is to set a higher standard. Valve took something of a higher quality (by accident? its hard to say) and made it fit into the mainstream, not by raising the bar for the mainstream, but by lowering the quality of Team Fortress.

I disagree. Saying Valve made TF2 just thinking in money is a quite biased (and incorrect) point of view. While I understand you may feel shocked - and maybe even betrayed - by the final result, you cannot deny two things: took Valve a lot of courage to throw everything out and create a totally unexpected and unique visual identity to the game, and I would dare to say they have a lot of love and proud from the result. It's not just a matter of milk more money from the cow: the amount of time and effort they spend creating new stuff, game modes, events and so for free is simply unparalleled in the game industry. Other games communities, like the L4D players, complain a lot about how they don't get this first class citizen status that TF2 players get. So no, it's not only about the money: there's also a lot of genuine "we love what we are doing here" on it.
_________________
frag.machine - Q2K4 Project
http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |

And devotion isn't magical. They may love it, that doesn't mean it isn't taking what was good and fitting it into a mainstream taste. I wasn't saying however that Valve is simply thinking of money, but refuting the argument that its popularity is vindication. Regarding the visual style, sure yeah the cartoony look is kind of good, a bit like a less serious XIII or more streamlined Duke3d, but calling it courage isn't much considering all that happened to lead to that point was multiple games beating them to their own TF2 punch, particularly Enemy Territory, they couldn't innovate well or as quickly as other studios so they retreated to the original design, took out any x factors (you know, the ones that lead to inventive gameplay) and applied a visual style and hammered on that with marketing.
I wouldn't consider the level of free content for TF2 to be worth it, in fact most of it smells of trinkets to string players along, and game designers who aren't sure about what to do - which happens when your success comes from a lack of innovation and a stripped down form of the design you made before you went professional.
_________________
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
I wouldn't consider the level of free content for TF2 to be worth it, in fact most of it smells of trinkets to string players along, and game designers who aren't sure about what to do - which happens when your success comes from a lack of innovation and a stripped down form of the design you made before you went professional.

Oh man.... so much melodrama over two missing 'throw grenades' impulses. That's the only "strip down" i've ever seen in TF2, and there's a very good reason backing that.
_________________

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |

Focusing the gameplay into chokepoints, removing pretty much any water play and designing levels focused around the same medium sized rooms with little vertical activity, no notion of traps or subterfuge, and a low diversity in gameplay styles (nothing like rock2, town2 or border1 as far as I know) is a pretty huge strip down.
_________________
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: |

What ? "low diversity of gameplay" ? TF2 has checkpoint, ctf, koth, arena and payload modes out-of-the-box. If you count mods, there's also rtd, a variety of soccer and a couple less popular community mods. About the already legendary "omg they took the grenades off" complaint: since the previous incarnations weren't my cup of tea - I was more a ThreewaveCTF player - I actually don't miss it now. Personally, I think it was a bit nonsense that in a class-based game everyone had a weapon (grenades) that should be restrict to one class (demoman). But OTOH discussing about this is almost as nonsense as complaining about Threewave CTF having a grapling hook. So nevermind.
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frag.machine - Q2K4 Project
http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |

All of those things you describe focus on pushing the players towards very specific locations, in fact CTF is the only one with potential variety in it, and is then hamstringed by the map designs. So yes, low diversity of gameplay, if CTF is the peak of it (where CTF was the base level for TF).
I don't think its nonsense that all the different types of soldiers on the field had a standard grenade to help them, and then a specific type to help personify them, which all acted rather differently. No more nonsense than each one being equipped with a weapon at all. The Demoman was exemplified with his numerous quantities of explosives, from normal grenades, to pipebombs (and long range grenades in MegaTF) and of course the multiple fuses on the detpack which allowed for opening up multiple entrances, or sealing them, in a variety of maps.
_________________
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.

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