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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |

Yeah that's the version with model showing in. I I tried using 3.4 as opposed to Baker's repacked 3.3 and there was some issue that I can't remember that screwed it up, maybe textures. Will give models a try though, only problem being which field it reads to show which model.
We could just change the Qc string I spose.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |

or get all engines to support hlbsp and hlmdl other than fte lol _________________ QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |

Well, we've changed the spawnflag order for monsters 3 or 4 times already, so 'new engine?' or 'change all c code?' aren't out of the question. We're masochists.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |

ijed wrote:
Yeah that's the version with model showing in. I I tried using 3.4 as opposed to Baker's repacked 3.3 and there was some issue that I can't remember that screwed it up, maybe textures. Will give models a try though, only problem being which field it reads to show which model.
We could just change the Qc string I spose.

Hammer 3.4 and higher correctly import the Quake .map format.
Worldcraft 3.3 screws up an old Quake .map format map as far as texture positioning goes. One way to handle this is to load the .map into Hammer 3.4 and save it as an .rmf file and then open it in Worldcraft 3.3.
I didn't make Worldcraft or Hammer, but Hammer's license agreement is non-Quake compatible and Worldcraft isn't. Hence, the Quake Adapter is for Worldcraft 3.3.
Would be nice if there was an easy to use and open source extended map editor for Quake that was Worldcraft-ish and supported rotation with the textures locked.

Quote:
...

By the way, RMQ seems to get a QC error in ZQuake (the NetQuake compatible Quakeworld client).
Not really an issue now, but sometime in the future when Remake Quake is closer to final, some road testing with ZQuake and FTEQW testing might be a good idea to expand the possible audience into Quakeworld territory as well.

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:08 am Post subject: |

We were thinking of a version of FTE as a RemakeQuake engine, currently I think we mostly test on Fitz and DarkPlaces - just a hole in the testing. When I'm more awake (ie. tommorow) I'll take a look at the viability of Hammer for Quake - I understand your position.

Quote:
I didn't make Worldcraft or Hammer,

Damn shame

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:25 am Post subject: |

ijed wrote:
We were thinking of a version of FTE as a RemakeQuake engine, currently I think we mostly test on Fitz and DarkPlaces - just a hole in the testing.

If it works fine in those 3 engines ... FitzQuake, FTE and DarkPlaces ... I'd say that is enough testing.
When the time comes for a true final version, you can ask other people to play with other engines and find any kinks.
FitzQuake itself is so close to GLQuake in all the ways that matters that if works in FitzQuake it is almost automatically an engine issue that some non-working engine needs to fix.

Quote:
When I'm more awake (ie. tommorow) I'll take a look at the viability of Hammer for Quake - I understand your position.

I don't actually have a position. When I made the Quake Adapter, I realized that Worldcraft 3.3 could do everything I wanted (I wanted the ability to rotate without the textures getting screwed up) and that I could make the "Quake Adapter" for Worldcraft and be on the right side of the railroad tracks.

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |

Fair enough - I was thinking you were more concerned about the wrong side of the tracks. One thing about us releasing demos every few months / quarter is most stuff like engine troubles should pop up somewhere sooner or later - thanks for pointing it out.

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Team Xlink Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 320 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |

Baker wrote:

ijed wrote:
We were thinking of a version of FTE as a RemakeQuake engine, currently I think we mostly test on Fitz and DarkPlaces - just a hole in the testing.

If it works fine in those 3 engines ... FitzQuake, FTE and DarkPlaces ... I'd say that is enough testing.
When the time comes for a true final version, you can ask other people to play with other engines and find any kinks.
FitzQuake itself is so close to GLQuake in all the ways that matters that if works in FitzQuake it is almost automatically an engine issue that some non-working engine needs to fix.

Quote:
When I'm more awake (ie. tommorow) I'll take a look at the viability of Hammer for Quake - I understand your position.

I don't actually have a position. When I made the Quake Adapter, I realized that Worldcraft 3.3 could do everything I wanted (I wanted the ability to rotate without the textures getting screwed up) and that I could make the "Quake Adapter" for Worldcraft and be on the right side of the railroad tracks.

So it should work in all engines?
A mod running in stock Quake isn't a problem for the average Windows/Linux/Mac user, but for others it is a problem.
When something can run unsigned code then Quake is almost always ported to it.
The only Quake that gets ported to it is Stock Quake because that is the standard one.
Its also a problem for people on a non standard OS.
Also, Is Remake Quake going to remake all of single player and multi-player?
_________________

Anonymous wrote:
if it works, it works. if it doesn't, HAHAHA!

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |

Team Xlink wrote:
So it should work in all engines? A mod running in stock Quake isn't a problem for the average Windows/Linux/Mac user, but for others it is a problem. When something can run unsigned code then Quake is almost always ported to it. The only Quake that gets ported to it is Stock Quake because that is the standard one.
Its also a problem for people on a non standard OS.
Also, Is Remake Quake going to remake all of single player and multi-player?

Quake mods are operating system neutral.
If it can run in Windows "WinQuake", it will run in any Quake on any operating system.
Provided that the edicts limit isn't broken or whatever platform has enough memory (i.e. some platforms like the PSP 1000 have I think only 32 MB available and only around 20 MB for practical application use).
FitzQuake is a very close to the vest engine. Compatibility with FitzQuake in protocol 15 (standard Quake) with max_edicts set to 600 (standard Quake) and heapsize -16384 (GLQuake normal memory limit) means compatibility with every engine that is behaving correctly.

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Team Xlink Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 320 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: |

Baker wrote:

Team Xlink wrote:
So it should work in all engines? A mod running in stock Quake isn't a problem for the average Windows/Linux/Mac user, but for others it is a problem. When something can run unsigned code then Quake is almost always ported to it. The only Quake that gets ported to it is Stock Quake because that is the standard one.
Its also a problem for people on a non standard OS.
Also, Is Remake Quake going to remake all of single player and multi-player?

Quake mods are operating system neutral.
If it can run in Windows "WinQuake", it will run in any Quake on any operating system.
Provided that the edicts limit isn't broken or whatever platform has enough memory (i.e. some platforms like the PSP 1000 have I think only 32 MB available and only around 20 MB for practical application use).
FitzQuake is a very close to the vest engine. Compatibility with FitzQuake in protocol 15 (standard Quake) with max_edicts set to 600 (standard Quake) and heapsize -16384 (GLQuake normal memory limit) means compatibility with every engine that is behaving correctly.

I was talking about engine compatibility.
If it uses a bunch of DP_Extensions or used things only DarkPlaces has then it only runs on the Operating Systems Dark Places runs on.
_________________

Anonymous wrote:
if it works, it works. if it doesn't, HAHAHA!

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |

Team Xlink wrote:
I was talking about engine compatibility. If it uses a bunch of DP_Extensions or used things only DarkPlaces has then it only runs on the Operating Systems Dark Places runs on.

FitzQuake has a total engine extensions count of, um ... what was the number? I forget. Oh yeah, now I remember ...
It's zero!
FitzQuake has no QuakeC modifications or special abilities. It is a GLQuake engine with modified rendering code too look more like WinQuake (fullbright support, overbright lighting, colored lits, old water). The latest version does support very high capacity maps, but those are messaged with warning messages in the console.
It happens to support fog and skyboxes, but those are put in the map worldspawn and engines that don't support those just ignore them as unknown fields.

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |

We're cross-platform by necessity - we've got a linux and mac team member, if they can't play the mod it takes the point out of things. Qoutes are confusing for me - I'm used to func_'s simplicity We've talked back and forth about a dedicated engine, but politically we're open source and user friendly - it was only by last minute whim that the source wasn't included inside the latest demo. If you want the source then let one of us know, I'm a bit fuzzy, but I think it's already uploaded somewhere. If not it'd take five minutes to do.
If an engine coder wanted to fall into the rabbit hole that is Remake Quake we'd probably reconsider, but it'd take a lot of convincing to shut off branches of the relatively small Quake community.
I'm procrastinating, basically. But I have the feeling that going for a dedicated engine would make us even more niche (and therefore innacessable) than a group of Quake 1 modders who want to have their work seen.
So, to recap, yes, it should work in all engines. We've already put some time into making it work in all mods - in theory Quoth, Nehahra and SOE are supported, with wrappers passing the relevant enemy entity or funtional entity to our equivalent. But that was more like 'seeing as we've learned to code, we can do this' so I'd be amazed if you can run map X without some sort of error.
The two main reasons why we might go to dedicated engine, or at least a smaller pool of, are CSQC and rotation brushes. Although the second problem has been pretty much resolved by Urre.
Thanks Urre

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: |

And a question - has any Quake mod or map utlisised mapobjects well? It seems strange that such a powerful tool has been pretty much ignored. Pissing about making rotatings or fiddly brushwork seems to be the best way to kill your own drive to finish a map, mainly because it was never intended to be used for such - brushwork I mean.
I do arcade games, so all of my stuff is .mdl, or at least the current gen tech of. A couple of weeks ago a programmer told me about a new idea he had and asked if I knew anything about BSP . . . good times.

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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: |

Well, with origin brushes, it's probably still easier to make a rotating door out of brushwork. A rotating bridge must be solid (collision) for the player to walk on - a problem with .mdl, at least when simply loaded via func_model (or whatever Quoth's equivalent is). Of course, you could do a hyprid brushwork / mdl construction. Another problem is lighting is different.
Origin brush based rotation is probably better for some things - mapmodel isn't the magic bullet to solve all problems.
Unless Urre convinces me otherwise
CSQC is very tempting, but then, CSQC works in Winquake - ie even in software - and an example implementation is out there. So that's not in any way exclusive - if you're an engine coder, at this point, you can definitely support CSQC. On Win/Lin/Mac at least.
It's a bit a case of weighing the benefits against the losses - in the end, if something is really beneficial to us, we're likely to accept that you can't play it on a Nokia phone...
The idea in regard to engines is to use the meta-engine, ie not have our own unless it becomes totally necessary for some reason. Flexibility and crossplatformness win. The CSQC development is a good example of how stuff becomes part of many engines. I regret that I didn't bet some people money when they wouldn't believe that would happen
Editors displaying .mdls: Quest can luckily also do this, but only if you put the path in the def file - no big problem.
RMQ uses no DP_ extensions, it would be less than ideal to become dependant on one engine and that engine's way of doing things.
Edit: I do test in FTE, RMQ runs fine in it last time I checked. I have great respect for the FTE dev team.
Baker, about the ZQuake issue, perhaps a bug report to Supa or a mention to Lardarse?
_________________
ReMakeQuake
The Realm of Blog Magic

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |

goldenboy wrote:
Baker, about the ZQuake issue, perhaps a bug report to Supa or a mention to Lardarse?

Ah, it's not really important now IMHO.
ZQuake needs common NQ cvars added in like scratch1, etc. Without those, who knows how it is going to react to anything!
Besides, as long as FTE can run it, any Quakeworld client should be able to be a client to FTE server including ZQuake and EZQuake. And if someone wants to run it offline, they can use something other than ZQuake should the problems be too severe.
I'd worry about this later rather than sooner.
I think if you have compatbility with Fitz, FTE and DarkPlaces you've satisfied 100% of expected compatibility levels.

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