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Error Inside3D Staff Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 558 Location: VA, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: Inside3D Asks #4: Quake 1 and the community. |

A game released in 1996, shortly after the QC source and tools were released... Many years down the line the engine source released. What kept you with this game? It's dated. So many games and people have come and gone. What are the strong points and the weak points of this game for you? Why haven't you "moved on"?
So, what keeps you modding/mapping/coding for Quake 1 and/or what keeps you in the community?
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Error Inside3D Staff Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 558 Location: VA, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |

The Game: Quake for me is not outdated. It's a beautiful game with a great atmosphere. Quake, through the source code releases has only made it better to work with. I find myself with every new game release thinking to myself, "Wow, that would be better done in Quake". We just had a discussion last night about Borderlands and how it would be more fun in Quake. No other game, probably in history, has had more mods from some of the most creative and talented people I've ever had the pleasure of speaking with or working with. Simply put, there's no other game like it.
The Community:
I've made and lost some of my best friends in this community. I've known many of you longer than most of my real-life friends. It's always a pleasure to stay up until 6 in the morning, when the sun's rising, chatting about this and that, whether it be about Quake or not. Being that Inside3D has brought so many more people from knowing very little to nothing about programming, I always eagerly await new releases from all of you. Sure, the community has it's down moments, but if you could name one that doesn't... then I'm speachless. I've been in the Quake community (inside3d/insideqc, irc, etc) since I got my parents to get the internet way back in 1996 or 1997. I wanted internet specifically for this game.
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Darkplaces Documentation Wiki

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: |

To me Quake is still new. i never played it when i was younger. my step dad was steadily into Console games. the closest thing i ever played was the doom series and hexen 1. To me Quake is new and exciting and has an awesome atmosphere . Its Darkish and filled full of goulies. Quake also has tons of opprotunities to people like myself. The coding language QC is very easy to learn, the mapping is very similar to half-life 1's (practically the same) and thats the game i learned to map with. Modeling ... the resources are scattered for it and so is information on how to compile and make a quake 1 formatted .mdl but once you learn how its really simple and more tedious vs hard. So making your own mod or even your own game is very easy compared to most modern engines and personally i think because of this quake is the best game to start learning to develop for when your a budding developer. After playing quake and modding with it, i can see what made it so popular and why it still has players/followers new and old.
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Junrall Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 136 Location: North West Oregon, USA |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |

Back in 1996 I built my first real computer (an Intel 286 processor) and shortly after was transitioning from BBS's to the Internet. On a whim. I downloaded the demo version of Quake from a BBS... it took an awful long time with a 12k baud phone modem!
When I finally got quake installed on my 20meg drive I was blown away by the 3D world. Good god did it run slow on my machine! I was so excited about what I was seeing that I spent the next 15 or 20 minutes traversing from the Start level to E1M1... yes it was that slow!
When I encountered my first soldier and dog I was killed immediately. As my character's view was staring up at the soldier all could think to myself was "My God, that thing's chest is rising and falling... its breathing!"
As you can imagine, from that moment on, I started upgrading my computer at every possible opportunity.
As time went on I was blown away time and time again... when I finally discovered that I could play against others via the internet... discovered that you could make your own map... discovered twisting Quake with QC... on and on and on.
In all honesty... I can say that this game has shaped who I am today. Had I not fallen in love with this game all those years ago I do believe that I would not be where I'm at today. Seriously, if I had never downloaded Quake I would never have gotten into computers and electronics as heavily as I did... I'd never gone to college for electronics... I'd never gotten the jobs I've had and now have... and quite possibly never owned my own home... blah blah blah... you get it.
I've fallen away from Quake from time to time, but always come back to it. It's been a faithful friend to me over the years and will always have a home on my hard drive.
As a matter of fact... I've been out of the scene for several years, that is until recently. About 6 months ago I decided to do a search to see if Quake was still popular. I wasn't surprised to see that it is still going strong! And even more surprised to see that the R.I.P. tutorials were still being posted! It's not much to brag about and it is quite ugly, but I created R.I.P. Part 10. Haha! I once went by the name of Carnage... and once fought a duel with another who also went by Carnage... I got to keep my nick Well, after seeing this I was once more inspired to dust off my old Quake CD and jump right back into things!
I can't say there are really any weak points... sheesh, the game is 14 years old and still going!
Positive points... re-playability, endless fun in many avenues, community, 14 years old and still going.
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject: |

The Atmosphere of the Game It's unique. There was never anything like it before and never anything like it after. It may have had a somewhat screwed-up gestation, but that's all part of what makes it so special and different (and why it won't happen again).
The Simplicity
You just dive in and start shooting. There's no fooling around with alternate fire modes, no fooling around with inventory management, no fooling around with 25,000 different game modes. More complex games have their place and can be fun too, but there is also a place for something pure and simple.
The Community
Mappers spurring engine coders on to do greater things, everyone sharing ideas, the sense of genuine support for and interest in people's work. That's what's really keeping Q1 alive.
Weak Points
The NQ vs WQ and SP vs MP splits. This doesn't globally apply, but there is a certain amount of 1337-ism in parts of the community which is detrimental - things that could be of benefit to everyone end up being compartmentalised. On the other hand it does allow someone to pick their niche and really go for it.
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dreadlorde Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Posts: 86 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |

Simplicity, Generality, Clarity. _________________

Ken Thompson wrote:
One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code.

Get off my lawn!

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |

Well, each and every modern game is poison to me. If I didn't come back to pre-1997 games (not that I ever left them), I would have declared ALL games to be crap, and find something better to do with my life (as to whether that would have been a good thing... I leave to the historians). I still like Quake for its purity as a GAME, but also because of its atmosphere. Unfortunately, I've played every map 1000 times (and e1m1 800,000 times) by now, so it's lost some of its freshness. But Quake's atmosphere still strikes me by its potential, how it approached something which no other game has come closer to... and yet Quake is still so far away. That thought has driven scar3crow and I to (somewhat) incessantly pursue the design of a modern game based on where the FPS genre (and a game's atmosphere) SHOULD have gone after Quake.
Most of my programming time nowadays (since 2006 actually) is spent on original from-scratch projects, but I still like to come back to Quake modding. Unfortunately every time I start a mod I realize that it will suck if it doesn't have its own map, and none of my 12,000 maps have ever made it past two or three rooms. This is why the recent Hellsmash QSR beta was so amazing to me. A mod with a map?! Has that ever happened since the old commercial TC days?!
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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: |

Apart from my involvement in RemakeQuake, and very few discussions / projects with very creative or intelligent people, I have moved on. I haven't been interested in Quake, The Game for years anymore. The engine, editors and assets are only raw materials for me. I can't hear the Lovecraft idolatry anymore, either, I never was a big Lovecraft fan and most of his (and his disciples') stuff isn't very original, compared to a few real mythologies anyway.
My interest today is mainly creating an open, well documented toolkit (because none exists at this point) along with an example implementation, which is what RMQ is, to an extent. It's also an experiment in how far you can take things in a community based project, and a couple other fields.
Most of the existing "community" has become enemy territory to me, either because of smartassed armchair elitism or the prevalence of stupidity and ignorance. There are a few exceptions, of course, but in general, this is just how the world works.
Quake isn't my "main" community, nor my "main" hobby or interest, either.
The next thing I might become interested in could be a Remake Hexen II (only the mod part, not the levels though). Since both RMQ and H2 are in QC, a lot of stuff should be somewhat portable. Another game I have a lingering interest in is Heretic II.
Toying with the idea of a modern toolkit for one of these games.
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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |

goldenboy wrote:
Apart from my involvement in RemakeQuake, and very few discussions / projects with very creative or intelligent people, I have moved on. ... Most of the existing "community" has become enemy territory to me, either because of smartassed armchair elitism or the prevalence of stupidity and ignorance. There are a few exceptions, of course, but in general, this is just how the world works.

I detect more than some elitism in your own very comments! Not that I disagree with your other point(s), but why are you here? And who is stupid and ignorant, the newbies? Can you blame them?
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Error Inside3D Staff Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 558 Location: VA, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |

good or bad, this is how he feels. no flame wars on here please, kthnx. _________________ Inside3D : Knowledge Is Power Darkplaces Documentation Wiki

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LonePossum. Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 38 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |

I played UT99 and games alike when I was around 9 and I was interested in the history of Gaming be it RPG or FPS etc. If I had not looked around I would not know about Quake. And If I hadn't looked around I would have probably ended up being stupid, and a "gaming/console wanker" as my friends like to put it (You know the peeps that play MW2 and Halo and think they are so cool where the story line and models have been taken of movies or the multiplayer modes were in the Original Counter Strike.)
After I played Shareware Quake I loved it and bought the game right away. Then I got into modding it when I did CFW on my PSP and was getting into modeling and there were all these games in development that were done in Quake so I thought I might aswell see what I can get into.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: |

Error wrote:
good or bad, this is how he feels. no flame wars on here please, kthnx.

It's more of a request for clarification...
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Irritant Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Maryland |

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: |

It wasn't so much Quake that I was drawn to, but id Software, which by proxy of making it easy to modify it's games, created the online community that grew and flourished around them. Way back in the day, talking early 90's here, the only real "community" was via the ftp archives that were run by Joost Schuur, and the readme.txt files that accompanied the Doom mods and maps.
By the time Quake was released, the interwebs were upon us in full force, and everything was changing dramatically. From 1996-1998, this was the "glory years" of Quake, and eventually Quake II. The amount of cool mods and community activity was amazing, and will probably never be duplicated. Nothing really compared to it, and nothing really has since.
So why Quake? Well, when id Software began releasing the sources of it's engines, we were given a base toolkit to learn about engine programming, and the template for creating even greater creations. Sure, the original game is dated, and probably not that often played anymore, but the projects that have spawn out of it continue on, and the engines that were based on it continue to evolve into much more modern marvels.
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |

My heart was never captured by Quake as it shipped. But I enjoyed the multiplayer mods of it immensely. Later my heart would be captured by single player releases for Quake like Insomnia and the Coagula maps and A Desert Dusk. And then after taking up engine coding and learning the basics of OpenGL combined with tons of reading of Func_Msgboard and Inside3D philosophy and ideas, I see something incredibly special and unique.
I don't like where games are going.
The Quake modding community is filled with deep richness of skill, expertise and philosophy and level design that is very uncommon and perhaps unique.
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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 477 |

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: |

LonePossum. wrote:
(You know the peeps that play MW2 and Halo and think they are so cool where the story line and models have been taken of movies or the multiplayer modes were in the Original Counter Strike.)

MW2 is good, so is Counter-Strike

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