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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |

DieparBaby wrote:

Quote:
Todd Hollenshead already shut one Quake/2/3-to-Half-Life 2 mod

Well whoever was doing the mod must have been refusing to release either the vmfs or whatever program they were using to do the conversion. As long as everything I use to do the conversion is released under the GPL, they can't C&D unless there is something I'm missing.

The problem here is the IP, not the maps itself. Remember the Generations mod ? They received a C&D from id, even using their own artwork assets.
_________________
frag.machine - Q2K4 Project
http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |

That was the only cool Quake 2 mod.

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |

I was more referring to the likelihood of Valve issuing the order. _________________ woh... feelin woozy... too much cider... http://entar.quakedev.com games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

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DieparBaby Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 44 Location: London, Ontario, Canada, eh |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: |

Hmm. Well I guess I will do the project and then before release I'll ask both parties if it's ok. Even if I can't release the vmfs or bsps I could still release the script under GPL. It's just for the challenge mostly anyway.

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |

Honestly, I'd say it'd be a better idea to ask first, and if it's not OK, then you can work on something that you can actually release. Otherwise, you just get some practice, and you could get that either way, right? _________________ woh... feelin woozy... too much cider...
http://entar.quakedev.com
games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |

I'd say it's perfectly legal. I just question your taste in this matter.

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Electro Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Brisbane, Australia |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |

DERAILED wooooooo _________________ Unit reporting! http://www.bendarling.net/

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Megazoid Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 116 |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |

The really sad thing about this, is that if id Software got wind of this project and decided they had an issue with the finished product, you can guarantee somebody in the "community" would have tipped them off. It's not like they keep tabs on the modding scene.
I'm not a fan of id Software. I was briefly interested in Doom, but can't honestly say I've liked anything they made after Quake. RTCW & Enemy Territory were great, but they don't count. Their lastest stuff is just pure shit.
I'm frankly suprized to see that people still feel the need to be so protective of id Software's intellectual property. If they were that worried, how come Quake has been downloadable from dozens of Internet sites for the past 5 years. We are not talking some obscure korean FTP server, or P2P networks, we are talking openly downloadable from many many Quake and Abandonware releated websites. A lots of Quake clans sites just throw it into the download section and nobody bats an eyelid.
id Software only had to type in a couple of key words into Google any time in the last 5 years to find their precious Quake being offered up like a skid row hooker, but no... The only time id Software (or should we specifically say Todd Hollenshead) gets upset is when some Quake mod or port steps over the line. It's frankly pretty ridiculous.
/vented...

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1028 |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |

Nah, most of us agree It would be a little embarrassing to be an id fanboy these days, what with their reality show dramatics :p Still, if I ever got the chance to work there, I'd do it and savour it until I got fired by whiny fighting co owners, if there are any left.
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F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Electro Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Brisbane, Australia |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |

Quote:
I'm frankly suprized to see that people still feel the need to be so protective of id Software's intellectual property.

It's not a matter of what people think is right or not, it's the law. You can't just go ripping stuff off from 1 game and putting it in another game. What's the point anyway if you're trying to port absolutely everything from Game X to Game Y to make Game Y identical to Game X? What's the use of having Game Y in the first place, and more importantly to use as a base? What are you getting from it? Light blooms and skeletal animation? Maybe some physics, I think that'd be the only understandable thing at this point because the game in question (Game X) has just about everything in custom engines aside from realistic physics.
If you're trying to retain the same feel of Game X, then is there really any point in getting some features that would no doubt change gameplay (breaking away from the entire point possibly?)?
The idea of seeing assets from a 10 year old game thrown into a current game engine and for people to think that's acceptable or would be well accepted is pretty silly in itself. If the thing is going to be even done right, the assets need to be reproduced from scratch, much like what the generations team have done after being axed during their builds where they were blatantly ripping models/textures between the id software games. That was only within the id software titles... making it a little more silly if you want to get worked up on something that'd be more suitable.
_________________
Unit reporting!
http://www.bendarling.net/

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Megazoid Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 116 |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |

I assume you are the same Electro that ported Q3 weapons, sounds, powerups and 4.5 minutes worth of copyrighted music to Quake in the form of Quake 1 Arena? Look, I'm not a big fan of ports. I usually find them only semi interesting, spend a few hours on them, and always go back to the original game. The appeal of the original game IS that it is buggy, bland, pixelated and hopelessly dated in a lot of cases.
My point was, if somebody wants to give a Quake to HL2 port a shot, why should we give a shit. Are we on the id Software payroll?
What he is talking about isn't going to be 100% legal even with GPL maps, redone textures and models, but then nor is that Free Quake idea. So what...

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |

... /me is working on Hellsmash ... _________________ "Roboto suggests Plasma Bazooka."

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Electro Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Brisbane, Australia |

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: |

Megazoid: yes i'm the same Electro... but that's in the past and I'm actually now disgusted by ported stuff (even stuff that i've done in the past). That being said, what i said previously still stands. _________________ Unit reporting! http://www.bendarling.net/

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |

DieparBaby wrote:
So what are you allowed to do with the released maps? It's a gpl license so I can distribute and modify them. That's all I'm doing isn't it?

In regard to using the GPL map sources combined with some suitable (free) texture replacements to bring over the maps, I don't see how it could be violating anything. However, as you announced "an almost total conversion", that statement implies there's more to it - and if you intend to use any of the original assets from Quake, you'd be violating id's intellectual property.

frag.machine wrote:
The problem here is the IP, not the maps itself. Remember the Generations mod ? They received a C&D from id, even using their own artwork assets.

Partly true. They recieved a C&D when they used converted resources along with their own original artwork. After the id complaint, and in response to its complaints, they released the legal SOG (site broken due to PQ 'upgrades') which was all their own original artwork and assets.

Electro wrote:
What's the point anyway if you're trying to port absolutely everything from Game X to Game Y to make Game Y identical to Game X?

Off the bat I would say: access to a different audience.
Also, I doubt the end goal is to make it exactly like original game, that would be profoundly silly in this case -- no, the advances in the engine code should allow for some improvements, albeit minor at best (especially over what most engine mods can do). Obviously there will be many idiosyncracies with the engine and the new assets that will be introduced to make it unique. Less of a direct port, more of an homage. Thus, it would be a different mod with different gameplay for a different audience. If this is true, I personally have nothing against it.
Yes, game port mods aren't the most interesting thing in the world, but they occasionally introduce a twist or expand upon the original in an interesting way - witness Generations or YPOD. Okay maybe not YPOD, but Generations offered you the ability to play BJ Blazkowicz in the Quake levels and deathmatch against the Doom guy.
I don't think everyone ought to be so presumptive of this mod. Yes, "rip offs" such as Half Life's Deathmatch Classic have been crap quality and been a stain on both communities, but I'd rather not assume or presume that a fan made project would be quite that dreadful. I would rather see the end result before I sit in judgement of it.

Megazoid wrote:
The appeal of the original game IS that it is buggy, bland, pixelated and hopelessly dated in a lot of cases.

Buggy, bland and pixelated.... you're talking about Half Life 2, yes? But I don't see how "hopelessly dated" fits here. Perhaps you meant "horrid gameplay?"

Electro wrote:
Megazoid: yes i'm the same Electro... but that's in the past and I'm actually now disgusted by ported stuff (even stuff that i've done in the past).

I never get my involvement in Quake 1 Arena used against me. And stop being disgusted with my mods, that hurts man, that really hurts.
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Quake Matt Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |

Ports can be cool sometimes - maybe the original game had poor netcode, too many bugs or just not a large enough userbase. Also, sometimes, you just can't help but feel that you can make something better than the original. Anyway, more on topic, I'm working with XNA at the moment and, once I get my proper dev machine back online (it died over Christmas), I'll finally get Gyro 2.1 out the door. I'm also thinking about a new map for Panzer which I'll tackle sooner or later.

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