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ajay Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Swindon, UK |

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: Quake Canon |

What's considered canon within Quake? Obviously this question will get a thousand answers, especially considering we're 'mainly' modders here, so revel in changing things. Obviously some will think nothing is up for change, others everything is changeable.
I'm asking because my current mod is more 'Quakesque' than my others so some authenticity has to remain; if you're basically doing a new Quake game / a sequel, then you have to retain more.
An example:
I'm tempted to change the zombies to being killable with just two shotgun hits. That's nothing massive in some regards, but a significant difference to Quake gameplay, where, obviously, you'd need to blow them up. It feels right to do it, as much fun can be head just running around in a Dawn of the Dead, Dead Rising etc way, blowing away Zombies. (Don't infer that's what my mods going to be like however...)
But is it changing too much of what is core Quake gameplay?
Thoughts would be good
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Junrall Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 136 Location: North West Oregon, USA |

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Quake Canon |

ajay wrote:
An example: I'm tempted to change the zombies to being killable with just two shotgun hits. That's nothing massive in some regards, but a significant difference to Quake gameplay, where, obviously, you'd need to blow them up. It feels right to do it, as much fun can be head just running around in a Dawn of the Dead, Dead Rising etc way, blowing away Zombies. (Don't infer that's what my mods going to be like however...)
But is it changing too much of what is core Quake gameplay?
Thoughts would be good

I personally don't think that your example would take anything from the game. Part of what makes the game fun is getting through spots that are a slight hindrance and cause the player to temporarily "break" out of the main goal of finishing the level. It becomes very boring for me to blast through level after level with no mental stimulation.
If I was to allow zombies to be killed with a shotgun it would only be done with the supper shotgun and maybe only a semblance of head shot would be the killing factor. Or maybe let the kill shot be determined by the distance... or the number of pellets that hit at the same time could determine the kill.
However it is done I don't think it changes the game play too much... if anything, it gives players something new to enjoy for a brief moment.
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |

Quake was deliberately designed from the outset to be modifyable, so as far as behaviour derived from QC is concerned anything can and should be up for grabs. "Untouchable" items would more likely include stuff like the wacky physics, rocket jumping, etc.
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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: |

My $0.02: Quake zombies were done wrong IMHO. They should be vulnerable to headshots (at least, a close range SSG should blow their heads). Also, ZOMBIES BY DEFINITION MUST HAVE MELEE ATTACKS. Throwing pieces of their asses (literally speaking) may sounded fun back then, but it's just flawed from the gameplay point of view. And last, they should move a bit more faster. Right now they are just an annoyance.
That said, as long you're not doing a mod to be played in standard maps (where game flow can be totally screwed), I don't see problems changing any particular behavior (either monster, weapon or power up). Try, and do a lot of testing to see if it works as expected and nothing get fubared.
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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |

My definition of Quake cannon: If it's fun, do it. _________________ When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: |

I find the Zombies a refreshing unusual enemy. Being able to kill them with non-explosives would take away a lot of fun and tactic for me. They are definitely a threat if you cannot kill them and they start blocking your way. I even think that it is an interesting feature that you cannot blow them up if they are just fallen down. It delays the option to kill them (grrr at LH for making it a gameplayfix...).
But for a mod? Do whatever suits your gameplay ideas. The models are just wrappers around a mechanism.
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negke Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 56 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: |

Yeah. As long as it's made clear to the player, everything is fine.

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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |

I think Quake is a horror-action game. Anything that fit the horror lore and is action fps, fit.

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |

Spirit wrote:
I find the Zombies a refreshing unusual enemy. Being able to kill them with non-explosives would take away a lot of fun and tactic for me.

Totally agreed. Give them melee attacks, make them move faster and make them killable with conventional weapons and they just become yet another generic enemy: you've completely removed the reason for them to exist. On the other hand if you made their gibs recombine in a Terminator 2 style, now that would be good.

Teiman wrote:
I think Quake is a horror-action game. Anything that fit the horror lore and is action fps, fit.

That's an interesting idea, and it kinda fits with why I don't like the Hipnotic (too tech) or Rogue (too medieval) mission packs (and where indicentally Zerstorer succeeds).
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Last edited by mh on Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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xaGe Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 329 Location: Upstate, New York |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |

..Zombie killz in 2 shotgun shots = FUN! ..Would work in quake as well if you just added more zombies to the area. I don't see anything wrong in modifying the zombies for your mod.

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |

mh wrote:
Totally agreed. Give them melee attacks, make them move faster and make them killable with conventional weapons and they just become yet another generic enemy

Sounds a lot like the knight actually.

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |

FrikaC wrote:

mh wrote:
Totally agreed. Give them melee attacks, make them move faster and make them killable with conventional weapons and they just become yet another generic enemy

Sounds a lot like the knight actually.

Put conveniently in these terms, yeah. Even me would agree with Problem is, you guys are so used to the original concept in the game that you simply cannot accept anything different.
But give to the zombies a melee attack too, make them move a bit more faster (5% ? 10% ? No more than this) and don't let them be immortal if you don't have a GL or RL, and you have a more balanced and challenging foe. Are they too vulnerable ? Well, adjust the health level, or even better, let them feast from others corpses (like the fat zombie guy in Doom 3). I am pretty sure this doesn't sound like the knight.
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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |

And having more types of mobs is bad? I would lilke a zombie that is just "there", and wen it explode, it create a cloud of toxic smoke. Or zombies that walk to you and spawn more zombies... Hell.. you can visit the Steam L4D forums and get a billion awesome ideas for zombies.

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ajay Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Swindon, UK |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |

Thanks everyone. I guess every mod is an open book, and what is a faithful addition to the Quake 'story' to one, is a desecration to another. I'm really torn re: the zombies, I'd love to make them shotgun killable (and for many reasons they kind of need to be...) but as my mod is a 'quake on earth' sequel of sorts I'm loathe to make too significant a change to a monster; improving ai, even adding gyro etc., is one thing, changing something unique about an enemy may be a mistake. A dilemma for me then, I may just try it and see...
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negke Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 56 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |

Then just create different types of zombies. Regular brown ones that have to be gibbed, gray ones that can be killed with the shotgun, green ones that explode into acid gibs, red ones that have homing gibs, blue tarbaby zombies, and so forth.

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