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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |

Downsider wrote:
Do you know what the PSP people need? A fucking brain.

Not fair.
They have a big list of ideas and little practical background or experience understanding the issues involved.
Learning begins having something you want to do and having little idea how to do it. An old expression: People who make no mistakes are people who don't do anything.
I'm a fairly decent engine coder now, but the first year or so I made a ton of mistakes because I had a grasp of some things but not others. Before taking up engine coding, occasionally I was near-clueless about how some things worked and had some --- in retrospect -- embarrassingly bad questions or misunderstandings [I have far less now, for sure. But even now, I occasionally am clueless.]
Learning anything involves not knowing what you are doing at first. I'd rather see a world where people who are trying to learn to do something new, than no one trying to do anything.
This is a help forum with tutorials, after all. No one gets from point A to point B smoothly and without occasionally even asking embarassing questions.
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Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 478 |

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |

I'm not a fair person, and ideas are what kids in the third grade get gold stars for. I don't mind when people ask questions and they're learning, but when they're doing so and later act as if they know everything and don't credit/act like dicks to those who helped them is when I get upset.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |

It seems a little harsh (and most of Downsider's posts here seem to be purely insulting ignorant people) ... but this time it's legitimate. Mexicouger doesn't seem to actually read half the replies to his threads. Mexicouger, a great thing about "written" correspondence such as forums is that if you missed something, you can re-read the person's reply over and over again. You don't have to ask again. Spend time reading replies and try to digest the information. Generally when someone tries to help you, every sentence in their post is written for a purpose. So don't skip over confusing-looking sentences... re-read them and try to understand them. Sometimes it seems like you're carrying on a totally different conversation than the people who are trying to help you.
And as for the thread's topic: Implementing CSQC in an engine is WAY OVER your head! It's not so much a matter of somehow pointing the engine to csprogs.dat, as a matter of writing or modifying ten thousand lines of involved engine code... So doing your HUD in the engine is exactly what you should be doing, glad you saw that.
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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |

Sajt wrote:
Mexicouger doesn't seem to actually read half the replies to his threads.

I'm sure he reads them. But the replies at least at first come across like calculus homework and it doesn't sink in at first so he asks a follow-up question not quite understanding the initial responses. [Hats off to Spike for the soft reply.]
Congrats to him for continuing to press on even when he doesn't understand the replies he has received.
I've not always understood the replies from Spike or LordHavoc and when I was initially learning OpenGL sometimes I didn't quite grasp replies from anyone.
Ignorance is a state of mind --- there isn't anything good or bad about being ignorant, it is just where you are [now]. Unless you are content with being there; asking questions is NOT is an act of being content with being there but rather an act of wanting to LEAVE there and grow.
Now, if someone truly doesn't have a solid foundation of some of the concepts, I'd bet on the guy asking questions every day of the week 24/7 over the guy too afraid to do so. You can't fault someone for being where they are, but you can truly fault people who mock someone for wanting to learn enough to go beyond that.
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Tomorrow Never Dies. I feel this Tomorrow knocking on the door ...

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |

good post baker. i fully agree. _________________ QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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Downsider Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 478 |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |

I read Baker's post several times, and I don't quite understand it, but unlike Mexicouger I'll acknowledge the post exists and ask for a rewording if possible.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |

Downsider wrote:
I read Baker's post several times, and I don't quite understand it, but unlike Mexicouger I'll acknowledge the post exists and ask for a rewording if possible.

basically downsider it means ignorance does not mean your stupid it just means you do not understand something, and you should not punish someone or dislike someone who asks questions because they're trying to learn and futher their knowlege so they are no longer ignorant about what they're trying to learn. that basically hate the person who hates someone trying to learn and just give up on those who dont take the effort to try. ( at least hes trying to learn )
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QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |

baker wrote:
I remember when I was new, I was a bit like him. Give him a break. If at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again. Ignorance fades in time as familiarity sets in, yay for persistance. People that attempt to learn are better than people that don't even try.

Basically thats how I understand it.
And its kinda true, too.
People that are vocal, that ask questions, etc, are the people that keep communities going. In time, like baker, they figure out enough to do stuff on their own without being a pain. :)
Better to have a few bad apples than no community.
Imho there is no problem with ignorance at all. There is only a problem when arrogance is involved - regardless of the level of their ignorance.
I'd invoke godwin's law, but I'm too lazy to think of a way to tie it in.
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gnounc Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 120 |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |

You dont have to, he's a nazi and nazi's dont deserve the satisfaction. jk.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |

a psp modder or two called me a moron and an idiot once all because i don't agree about copying big IP for exploitation _________________

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Mexicouger Joined: 01 May 2010 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:39 am Post subject: |

Well I read peoples Posts. Most of the time, Downsiders posts heed unhelpful to me. However, Sajt is my biggest help. I like when People post the code and Do a run-through on it. And if I don't understand your post, what do you want me to do? Say I don't understand you whatsoever?
But I do read over peoples posts constantly. I actually downloaded Ghostfangs charge beam topic for offline use so I could try and Test out Peoples Codes. Redrums worked after I tinkered with it. But I will acknowledge your unhelpful post if you wish. If I don't reply to it, I don't understand it, And don't feel the need to say anything.

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