Index | FAQ | Search | Memberlist | Usergroups | Profile | Log in to check your private messages | Log in | Register

QW modding?

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> QuakeC Programming

View previous topic :: View next topic
Author | Message
--- | ---
Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: QW modding? |

How different is modding for QW? Would you guys be able to code a QW mod (I mean sure you are, but would it be easy)? And would some of you like to make a QW Coop mod under my leadership (I cannot code but I am working on a 'script' of the mod)?
_________________
Quake Maps

Back to top |

leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |

not being able to use particles suck it's actually as easy making a quake mod, but with a bit more limitations and slightly different conventions (i.e. wtf, sending a MESSAGE to kick the screen rather than tilting it manually!?!?! WTF WTF!!!!)
_________________

Back to top |

FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |

There's very little difference, outwardly, in the QuakeC. If you know how to make a NQ mod, you know how to make a QW mod. There's minor things, like QW has no particle() function which is a visual effect that's very handy. Explosion sprite and the effect are linked, which I can live with, punchangle is gone and replaced with SVC_SMALLKICK. All of these are really minor visual effects most moders can live without. What's the last mod ever made that absoluteyl RELIED on particles.
There are however really major things. All physics are handled both on the client and the server. The client thinks it's basically always MOVETYPE_WALK and the server never tells it otherwise, as such, changing the movetype on the server's QuakeC does nothing. Because of this, you're basically limited to first person shooter mods as all things like Quake Rally, SW:D, AirQuake and even little things like my Tetris minimod need the player using a different movetype.
Second major difference is all non-client entities are capped to a ridiculously low FPS, and because of this, things like bots, monsters, npcs, etc are horribly choppy. This can be quite aggravating especially when you want entities to follow or sync up with the player in some way.
A few of the new QWSVs solve these problems, but most of them aren't really made for modders, because the people making QWSVs think 'all the QW mods that are going to be made have been made'. And since it's practically impossible to get a new QW mod a dedicated server, they're less inclined to make changes to their work for a use that will 'never see the light of day'.
_________________

Back to top |

TimeServ Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 15 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |

FrikaC wrote:
A few of the new QWSVs solve these problems, but most of them aren't really made for modders, because the people making QWSVs think 'all the QW mods that are going to be made have been made'. And since it's practically impossible to get a new QW mod a dedicated server, they're less inclined to make changes to their work for a use that will 'never see the light of day'.

Even better, there are servers which break the QSG extension system with their own system of builtins. And continuing with that, one of these servers contains an awkward Quake 3 VM adaption and people developing under this system think that the QuakeC stuff is comparitively obsolete and inflexible, to say the least.

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |

FrikaC wrote:
And since it's practically impossible to get a new QW mod a dedicated server, they're less inclined to make changes to their work for a use that will 'never see the light of day'.

Hmmmm. I don't think it is hard to get a mod a dedicated server, actually. I think that is either a perception or it just could be because I know a lot of server operators.
If you go to this link, for instance, you will see that there are nearly 500 QW servers worldwide and usually at least 470 of them are completely empty.
Most server operators tend to be strong enthusiasts of the game and would love nothing more than to have a popular server. In NQ, I have seen some notorious wars between server operators for players (some nasty stuff) but for about a year now that stuff is part of the past (3 years ago it was some ferocious stuff).
Usually all that is involved to get a mod on a dedicated server is asking a few different server operators. Typically, someone who runs empty servers is willing to try something different if they believe it might draw players.
Quake/Quakeworld do not take up very many resources on a dedicated server. It is common to find server operators running things on numerous different ports.
The most coveted reward for a server operator, just like a mod maker, is for someone to use what they invested time and energy to setup.

Back to top |

FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |

While it's true most server operators want to try different things for their servers, they're generally not keen on new mods, as they're prone to crashing. Server ops hate that. But your link kinda proves my previous point. Even well known and long established mods like Painkeep have no servers. It's all Clan Arena, Team Fortress, maybe a RuneQuake and a CTF here and there. 5 maybe 6 mods are all that are ever hosted.
Custom maps are in an nearly equal boat, although a little better off. Maybe it can be traced back to what you said, server operators go where the players are. The players don't play mods. The players play vanilla Quake almost exclusively, or things that look as much like vanilla Quake as possible. The mod community has no audience and hasn't had one since 1997 or thereabouts.

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |

FrikaC wrote:
While it's true most server operators want to try different things for their servers, they're generally not keen on new mods, as they're prone to crashing. Server ops hate that.

Heheh, true. Yeah you got that one right. That's why a mod maker should do a lot of testing on ye old local PC, heh

Quote:
But your link kinda proves my previous point. Even well known and long established mods like Painkeep have no servers. It's all Clan Arena, Team Fortress, maybe a RuneQuake and a CTF here and there. 5 maybe 6 mods are all that are ever hosted.

That's true too (I know of a Painkeep server, btw, just 1).
And it is a mistake. You shouldn't see 130 servers in the US running the same exact thing. Europe, for instance, has at least that many servers I believe and as far as I know, not a single good coop server (otherwise Spirit probably wouldn't have posted this).
I think QW has a single mod called TrueCoop --- which I have not been able to track the source down --- and I can imagine it's not very advanced (although I haven't tried it).

Quote:
Custom maps are in an nearly equal boat, although a little better off.

That's gonna change. Me and Yellow are bored of the standard maps, heheheh.
That being said, the big problem with custom maps is you have what is known as the "server clearer map".
One bad map in a rotation can cause players to leave a server. Then it shows as "0 players" and doesn't stand out so "crappy" custom maps aren't rewarded ... that's for sure.
Secretly that's the problem with the Beetdown Alley server (intentionally misspelled to avoid Google).
That mod was tremendously popular early on, but had and still has a substantial number of crappy custom maps on it and when you hit one it is frustrating.
It cannot be reliably counted on for all players present to vote away a bad map and if a bad map can't be voted away, 2 things happen:
1. The players that hate the map usually leave.
2. Since players leave, the bad map will be on the server longer as it will only disappear by the "time limit" expiring.
3. Therefore the bad map is "rewarded" with extra time.
4. The players that hate the map remember that about the server if it happens frequently and becomes a "deterrent" to playing there.

Quote:
Maybe it can be traced back to what you said, server operators go where the players are. The players don't play mods. The players play vanilla Quake almost exclusively, or things that look as much like vanilla Quake as possible. The mod community has no audience and hasn't had one since 1997 or thereabouts.

I can't argue with that one. I admit that I have not even tried Painkeep and not ever once played any multiplayer "mod" (except the prevalent ones). [I do need to try the DPMod so I can write a description for it and find out what ppl like about it so much]
Part of that problem is that most players rely on what others players tell them to do. A player's first attempt at trying something new is typically because another player asked him/her or he/she got invited.
Several times my first experience with a particular mod was 2 or 3 other players "pestering" me to play it. In fact, I can't recall playing a new mod without this. I didn't even want to play Rocket Arena the first time until a couple of buds "made me do it".
Well ... maybe things can change. The original Quake was once written off as dead back in 1998 when Quake 2 and Half-Life came out. I didn't even play Quake back then, but 10 years later there is still a strong and committed Quake community so it's clear it is going to be around for a long time.
Maybe Quake will become like chess and slowly become immortalized.

Back to top |

Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |

Stop hijacking my thread for different discussion please. Thanks. Baker: There is at least one coop server in .pl running excoop (a bugfixed coop mod by goqsane and a friend of him). As far as I remember there are about 3-4 servers. I am heading for a quite unique coop experience. I have been thinking about how to make a good coop basis for about months now and I want people how can do it. I will write down and post here somewhen hopefully soon. Then people can decide if they want to work "for me", heh. I will have a server for it.

Back to top |

Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |

Modding for QW is as easy as it is to mod for NQ, apart from that movetype restriction and inability to particle-spam. FTE, ZQuake, FuhQuake and EZQuake allow using movetypes on players. If you use one of these as a server then QW mods are pretty much identical to NQ, and you get extra user-config power too. Wahoo!
Regarding coop, any custom server supports the coop cvar, with assosiated stuff.
The origional QW server has a lot of bugs and known exploits. Few admins trust it. Maintaining backwards compatability for the sake of compatability is utterly pointless. Pick a server project and ignore the id server builds
Did I mention yet that FTE is a brilliant QuakeWorld server for modders?.. It can even run NQ mods. :p
_________________
What's a signature?

Back to top |

scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Hijacking Spirit's Thread |

Sorry Spirit, I guess we could move this to another thread in General Discussion, but I felt like replying here. Honestly, when it comes to bad custom maps, there are a lot. However, there are also a lot of good custom maps... Id say if you want to only run good maps, give them a quick play with some friends on your server before formally adding it, and also, about any dm map from the #terrafusion crew is bound to be at least fairly good. I dont care for the atmosphere there, but those guys dont make crap.
As for mods - that is just alien to me. I love trying out mods. Before I could play online, I would download multiplayer mods and run around in them trying to get a sense of what it would be like. I love vanilla Quake, but I also love Storm the Castle, Get Rich Quake, would love to try Zerstorer or Hipnotic DM or Rogue CTF. We have so much to play, new and old, which have been completely ignored. 470 servers with no one playing them? I doubt those other 30 servers have every single player on them, so this tells me that there are a bunch of other potential players who are looking for something different. Theyre looking to stow their cash in a cubby hole and go rob other players, theyre looking to build ballistas and fiend off enemy knights, theyre looking to see what a chainsaw fight really looks like, and by god they want to slam the Mjolnir down upon the soiled steel of hipdm1!
You know, Q2 and HL did in some ways make Quake dead. With the advent of those games, PQ started really franchising all the more, they pushed Quake out of the picture for a very long while and werent interested in what it still had to offer.
Sorry Spirit, but I saw the conversation here, and I felt I had something to say.

Back to top |

FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |

Spirit, I don't know what your deal is. The original question was asked and answered and we're still in the realm of your Topic's question: QW modding?, only it's a broader discussion of modding.... Baker, I think you may now begin to see why the Quake modders are more pessimistic about Quake than the players probably are.
scar3crow, if only everyone was you.

Back to top |

Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |

Oh, it's ok since it's turning in a interesting direction, heh I feel the same about custom maps and I will definitely add >good< and tested ones on my server.

Back to top |

Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |

FrikaC wrote:
Baker, I think you may now begin to see why the Quake modders are more pessimistic about Quake than the players probably are.

Yeah, I understand that a lot better now. Gives me some ideas, but nothing immediately actionable, nor necessarily easy either.

Back to top |

Display posts from previous:

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> QuakeC Programming | All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2004 phpBB Group