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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Quake Engine GPL Abuse |

Recently I've documented GPL abuse by Quake Engines and their respective authors, I've made a bit of progress and with some none at all. Regardless I figured this may be quite a bit of interesting information that the Quake community itself may wish to look at.
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LTKTBM (License to Kill The Borg Matrix)
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URL:
http://www.cam-direct.co.uk/ltk/ltktbm.shtml
Description:
LTKTBM is an updated action Quake 2 with enhanced engines features, it breaks licensing by using the
Quake 2 engine and remaining closed source thus breaking the GPL agreement. This can be fixed by simply
allowing the engine source to become available for the public to download when new versions are released.
The author mSparks has been contacted requesting the source-code, a follow up with his response will be
posted when an email has been sent back, currently 4 days have passed.
Status:
Email pending on source release. It still breaks the GPL by not mentioning that the source is available
upon request, as required also not sure if he'll give it out at all.
Update:
No email for around 2 weeks. Probably ignored.
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Space Trader
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URL:
http://www.playspacetrader.com/
Description:
Space Trader doesn't exactly break the GPL itself as it's source code is available by email.
The more serious problem with Space Trader is in it's HWP file (a renamed Quake 3 .pk file) as it breaks
the Quake 3 copyright by including Quake 3 Arena Pak0 material inside.
http://forums.playspacetrader.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37&p=82&hilit=source#p82
According to this link the source code will eventually be released however is available by email which has
been confirmed.
Status:
Breaks copyright laws as of current, source code is obtainable by email however still breaks the GPL due to the source itself being outdated from the released binary.
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Urban Terror
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URL:
http://www.urbanterror.net/
Descripton:
Urban Terror is a stand-alone mod based on the old Quake3 Source Development Kit (QVMs) before the engine
source was made GPL and released, Urban Terror is now stand-alone and packaged with ioquake3, which breaches
a clause in the Quake 3 SDK license. They're running non-free QVM code in a free GPL'd engine.
"ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to distribute copies of the Software free of charge
for non-commercial purposes by electronic means only and the non-exclusive and limited right to use the
Software to create your own modifications (the New Creations) for operation only with the full version
of the software game QUAKE III ARENA;""
As sourced here,
http://renegadec.digitalfunk.org/misc/q3toolseula.html
Another issue is the QVM's source itself being closed,
Source: ( http://www.urbanterror.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.5 )
If the QVM itself has anything from the Q3 source, it falls under the Q3 tools license, which prevents them
from using it from anything other than a Q3 mod that requires Q3. The way this be fixed is by rewriting all
Q3A-derived parts from scratch, porting it over to the GPL SDK source and releasing the gamecode, or seeking
ID Software's permission.
As straight from one of the developers,
Taken from http://www.urbanterror.net/page.php?3
I wasn't able to email Oswald as his email isn't listed.
Update:
Urban Terror appears OK by id themselves, discussed this with others.
As quoted by an anonymous,
2008-02-27 20:24:44 <TTimo> well we have legal leverage through the EULA if we want to
2008-02-27 20:24:58 <TTimo> but no one wants to use it, we like those guys
Status:
Given OK by id software themselves.
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Unoffical Quake-Engine
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URL:
http://www.quake-engine.com/
Description:
Unoffical Quake-Engine is a closed source Hexen 2 engine, Hexen 2's engine code is GPL as sourced in,
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Raven_source_code_licensing
http://www.doomworld.com/eternity/letter.html
http://liberatedgames.com/game.php?game_id=38
Thus breaking the GPL license, there also seems to be no evidence of iD(?)/Raven(?) granting them permission.
This can be fixed by allowing the source code to their engine released to the public, I've emailed
the author asking for the engine source which I had no problem receiving. The author also appear to be moving
through more iD software related engines such as the Quake series itself eventually.
UPDATE:
Source code has been released by e-mail, author appears to have agreed to abide by GPL terms (hopefully soon) and was cooperative and pleasant to talk to.
Status:
Source code released by email, however still breaks the license by the archive not containing the GPL license file packaged within, author has been notified.
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A Note on GPL
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The GPL requires that an entire program be GPL (where libraries are considered part of it -
but data might be considered independent by the GPL), aggregate distribution is allowed (but
it's not clear if a zip containing code and data would be considered aggregate if there is an
appropriate license file noting the distinction), this does not cause any serious problems for
standalone games, however the initial Quake2 and Quake3 SDK licenses (before GPL re-releases)
required that users have the full version of the game, which directly forbids standalone distribution,
so any game must be ported over to the relevant GPL SDK and then must supply source, period.
Read more about the GPL here,
http://opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php
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Final Note:
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The reason I've decided to document this is because GPL engine abuse will cause future companies
to become reluctant on releasing their source code to newer games which would be a huge blow to
communities as well as general educational value. This is not intended to get anyone in trouble,
however if iD software or any other licensing company sees this and takes action we're not to blame;
you are. Engine authors included here are welcome to discuss and clear up and misunderstanding that
may be presented here.
THIS IS NOT TO GET ANYONE IN TROUBLE, IT'S PRESENTED AS IS; WHICH IS A DOCUMENT. NOTHING MORE.
Last edited by RenegadeC on Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:52 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |

And the bottom line is: The GPL is a pretty damn evil license. _________________ Quake Maps

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1322 |

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |

it's only 'damn evil' to keep things safe and not sorry. Unfortunately for the above cases it's only exploited for the free beer part alone This thread is to raise awareness, not to spread FUD. If more are aware and think it's a problem and start resolving them it'd be better for everyone. You know, if the public weren't aware of this and wonder why they get C&D'd to death no one will really know why because it's too late
_________________

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |

I've updated a few sections, appears id is okay with Urban Terror.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: |

I've always thought that the tolerance of this closed source Quakeworld engine was wrong: camquake I have no idea whether the modifications are really that useful, but it is rather disappointing that tolerance for license violating engines still exists.

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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |

Baker wrote:
I've always thought that the tolerance of this closed source Quakeworld engine was wrong: camquake I have no idea whether the modifications are really that useful, but it is rather disappointing that tolerance for license violating engines still exists.

http://jogi.netdome.biz/camquake_sources.tar.gz
its not closed source... its just unreliable. :P
As a side note, any worthwhile functionality was already implemented into ezquake, the parent project.
_________________
What's a signature?

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |

Spike wrote:

Baker wrote:
I've always thought that the tolerance of this closed source Quakeworld engine was wrong: camquake I have no idea whether the modifications are really that useful, but it is rather disappointing that tolerance for license violating engines still exists.

http://jogi.netdome.biz/camquake_sources.tar.gz
its not closed source... its just unreliable.
As a side note, any worthwhile functionality was already implemented into ezquake, the parent project.

Welp, that's good to know

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |

Spike wrote:
its not closed source... its just unreliable.

Ah, that thread always led me to believe the source wasn't available.

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |

Update! ------------- Dreamplaces ------------- URL:
http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=96302
http://dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=93805&p=991089#p991089
Description:
Dreamplaces is a Dreamcast port of LordHavoc's Darkplaces engine, this is lead by Chui and apparently has "3dfx Development" Corbin involved. This breaks the GPL by not including the source code and not telling the public it's available by email. It also surprisingly breaks the Quake 3 EULA by including Quake 3's DM7 map inside the package.
Status:
Breaks GPL, and breaks Quake 3 EULA.

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jim Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 400 Location: In The Sun |

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |

Aww.. I thought this was something about someone making an Abuse mod for Quake... _________________ zbang!

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |

RenegadeC wrote:
It also surprisingly breaks the Quake 3 EULA by including Quake 3's DM7 map inside the package. Status: Breaks GPL, and breaks Quake 3 EULA.

I think it is important to honor the GPL and EULAs, but most of the things anyone is doing with the various Quake engines isn't for profit.
Now some people set out to simply break the GPL and some intentionally, knowingly and actively seek to break EULAs or technocratically sidestep them.
But many of the group that I will ambiguously describe as various types of developers can't fully dot all the i's or cross all the t's or in some cases don't know they aren't.
I read your questioning of one of the Urban Terror guys (an uber -professional mod, of course) about the Quake 3 EULA and something I just recalled ...
The last time I checked -- which was long ago --- Ascension of Vigil used at least a little Quake shareware content.
I think with some of these things, the expression of an idea can be really hard to achieve and follow every single rule down to the last letter of every EULA and such. Maybe the bar should be higher with something like, say, Urban Terror and as far I am concerned with the GPL, I view it as always wrong to break it ... but I'm sure occasionally people compile non-GPL compatible libraries into engines and such or maybe even use code that isn't quite GPL compatible (some other weird open source license).
Anyways, I guess my point is that I think most honest people are just that. Some people are dishonest or trying to be shifty, but you can usually tell the difference.

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MauveBib Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 602 |

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |

Does TAoV not still include several models from the registered version of quake? (shub, hell knight etc). Glass houses and all that. _________________ Apathy Now!

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |

I believe he foresaw such comments and has been replacing them.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |

scar3crow wrote:
I believe he foresaw such comments and has been replacing them.

Well, maybe he shouldn't. Wasn't AoV basically done almost 3 years ago?
My point wasn't that AoV uses some models and whatnot.
But rather that reasonability should enter the equation.
I could understand updating a current project to fix little things to make it fully comply with stuff, but if it isn't a current project and the issues are minor, I'd just leave it as a past learning experience and make sure to do better next time.
At least these are my raw thoughts on it with the little I know about it.
Everyone can tell the inconsiderate jerks [that set out to do things wrong and could care less] apart from the others.

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |

AFAIK, he is still working on it. Hence the new stabbing animation for Vigil, amongst other things. I don't think it'll be considered finished until he has 50 levels, each having 4 hours of gameplay involving mounting large spirals in a nethervoid of scorch-marked brick and frozen nightmares - or maybe thats what I want... Anyways, I do not believe it is anywhere near finished, just that the components are well in place (namely Vigil, his movements, and the combat system).
I know he is working on a new version, hoping to have a stable one soon. Of course this would happen quicker if he would change out of his Canadian*Sniper costume he apparently dons at night and stop working on SmashQuake.

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