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Do you see much potencial in the Quake II Engine?

Yes |

47%
[ 8 ]
No |

52%
[ 9 ]

Total Votes : 17

Author | Message
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Ranger366 Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 72 Location: Berlin (Germany) |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Do you see much potential in the Quake II Engine? |

There are many Quake II Engine Games. KingPin or Daikatana are known by many Gamers. Quake II is OpenSource, it gives such a great base, a new Model Format would be awesome for this Engine, and better Sound Quality with new Formats too. It has some really GREAT effects.
I would really wanna see some guys who would make with me one Project on this Engine. Not right now, but maybe in some months.
So i wanna ask you, if this would be cool.
Quake2:
http://cynicwithagamepad.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/rage128ss3.jpg
http://games.softpedia.com/screenshots/Quake-II_2.jpg
KingPin:
http://poisonville.net/walkthru/kploc/Wt27.jpg
http://www.kingpinforever.com/walkthru/kploc/Wt23.jpg
Daikatana:
http://www.quadsquad.co.kr/tt/attach/1/1391987627.jpg
http://www.quadsquad.co.kr/tt/attach/1/1084235748.jpg
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Last edited by Ranger366 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: |

At least 99% of the visual stuff that's achieved in Q2 can be done with Quake. All it takes is a bit of work. The big differences are in the network code (based on QuakeWorld, and much better than NetQuake) and the data formats used. In fact, the cruddy old data formats used by Quake are probably the single biggest thing holding it back from achieving potential that can in theory exceed anything else.
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Ranger366 Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 72 Location: Berlin (Germany) |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: |

mh wrote:
At least 99% of the visual stuff that's achieved in Q2 can be done with Quake. All it takes is a bit of work. The big differences are in the network code (based on QuakeWorld, and much better than NetQuake) and the data formats used. In fact, the cruddy old data formats used by Quake are probably the single biggest thing holding it back from achieving potential that can in theory exceed anything else.

but bringing Quake One to this standard will take many time, and will create more and more problems. The good thing in Quake II is that it dont uses QuakeC, i know QuakeC is good, but dlls are in this Case (engine side) better.
Quake is simple, fast and easy to handle. But Quake 2 is something different. I never saw one Quake One mod with can be matched with Quake 2.
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gnounc Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 120 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |

Its not really the engine, its what you do with it. Its how much time and energy you put into whatever it is you're creating, matched against how skilled you are at what you do. that said, the various quake 1 engines are pretty capable, darkplaces in particular.
but if its a quake2 engine you want you have 3 flavors that I'm aware of: quake2xp, quake evolved and berserker quake.
I dont know the differences as its been a while since I used any of them...I kind of hate quake2, but I'd be willing to bet one of those engines provides more than you're asking for.
But here, let them speak for themselves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIEm8rPXzs4&feature=related

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gnounc Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 120 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |

to be fair, thats really only showing eyecandy. I feel compelled to point out that both quake1 (with darkplaces) and duke3d (with eduke32) are both looking much improved as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LatALuOLbrA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvfT0A9HBU

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Ranger366 Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 72 Location: Berlin (Germany) |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |

There are no many Quake One TC's. Because you would enhance or remake the old game. But in Quake II, you simply MUST make your mod into a TC. Noone will play Quake II again with only one Weapon or double jump. See OverDose, such great things. LordHavoc will never bring Quake One Engine to this.
Quake II engine is faster too when you enhance it.
But im not here to search Engines or make one Graphical Highlight. I just wanted to begin a nice Game on this cool Engine. Without any big changes in the Engine.
I love Quake One more than Quake II or Duke Nukem 3D.
But i really think that making something like i want will change the minds of many gamers, and bring us a new community for Quake II modding.
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |

Quake II isn't necessarily faster. It's all down to how you structure your renderer, and Quake II is really just a very very very minor evolution of Quake 1 on this side. They have more code in common than they do different, much much more code. The biggest difference in fact is that Quake II is structured that little bit more sensibly in some places, but this structuring has nothing to do with performance and more to do with using a common image format for everything.
There are advantages and disadvantages of DLLs over QC, but there is no absolute "this is just so much better in every single way" thing.
Looking at that OverDose page, all I can see is content. DarkPlaces can already do this stuff, as can Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. In fact if you wanted to build a content-driven mod and wanted content of this nature you would probably be better off using Doom 3 instead.
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Ranger366 Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 72 Location: Berlin (Germany) |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: |

DarkPlaces is just one Engine wich supports several Formats, wich are OpenSource, the Real_time Lightning and Shadows look in Quake Cool, but are not the best, they are eating too much memory and lightning glitches are there. I dont wanna make one Game on a heavily modified Quake Engine, i wanna do this on the id tech 2. Just different game code, models, sounds, maps , storyline. Done. Just all the others would do this in a TC. The engine gives such a great editing base. And i dont wanna match the engine with Quake One here.
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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |

firstly, this site is mostly focused on quake1, so expect responses to be slightly biased. With that said... QuakeII sucks. Your list of advantages for QuakeII is basically that it and its derivatives are well known. Well... That applies to QuakeIII just as much. And the derivative of the original Quake is of course halflife, which is muuuch better known than kingpin, and actually worked without crashing, unlike daikitana.
You mention that QuakeII doesn't use QuakeC as a good thing.
On the contrary, it causes mods to become binary-dependant upon their customized engine. They no longer exist in separation from the engine the creator favours. The saved games of QuakeII dlls is utterly utterly vile, and breaks your saves for any new versions (potentially of the engine too).
But the biggest problem is that mods are typically closed source, dependant upon a specific engine, and stuff. This limits the community away from QuakeII and towards the specific mods and the engine that they depend upon. Imho.
The reason you don't really get Q2 mods with only minor stuff like a single weapon added is more because of the era, rather than the engine itself. You don't get many Quake mods like that either, nowadays.
You say that bringing Quake One to the standard of Quake2 will take time. FTE, for example, already runs QuakeII mods. :P
Point is, Its not really the engine, its what you do with it.
Imho, the only real difference between Quake and QuakeII engines is how they mold their community.
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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |

quake2's 10hz gamelogic is stupid so no, i don't find its potential. The only cool thing about Quake2 is its "modular" video subsystem, surfaceflags, and cd basepath The Quake2 engine scene seems oblivious, i mean no one has fixed quake2's gl light bugs (too dark, too saturated, missing overbright) and 'gamma' yet or add in odd texture uploading. It seems the #1 priority of them all is making particles look better with selfpromotion how important that is
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |

leileilol wrote:
quake2's 10hz gamelogic is stupid so no, i don't find its potential. The only cool thing about Quake2 is its "modular" video subsystem, surfaceflags, and cd basepath The Quake2 engine scene seems oblivious, i mean no one has fixed quake2's gl light bugs (too dark, too saturated, missing overbright) and 'gamma' yet or add in odd texture uploading. It seems the #1 priority of them all is making particles look better with selfpromotion how important that is

Yes, this basically.
Plus Quake II suffers a LOT from second system effect whch is never a good thing.
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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |

The only Q2-based game (including all those free games that appeared after the engine source release) I ever liked is Soldier of Fortune, and to a milder degree Heretic II. There's no such thing as FitzQuake2. _________________

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |

Oh, I actually find QII itself to be very enjoyable. It's different to Q1 for sure, but that doesn't lessen my ability to enjoy it, and nor does my ability to enjoy it blind me to the shortcomings of it's underlying technology. _________________
DirectQ Engine - New release 1.8.666a, 9th August 2010
MHQuake Blog (General)
Direct3D 8 Quake Engines

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |

I really don't see anything unique that quake2 has to offer that Quake can't do without some modification. If anything, I feel that quake2 is inferior to Quake due to it's lack of QuakeC. Quake2 is largely eh, both as a game and as an engine, as for derivatives, such as SiN (which was kinda cool despite being shitted up by the unpolished gameplay and feedbacklessness) they are indeed mostly just content.
To be honest, I actually had more fun playing Half-Life than I did playing Quake2. Which is wierd, because I hate Half-Life's oppresive linearity.
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mk Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 94 |

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |

Spike wrote:
the biggest problem is that mods are typically closed source, dependant upon a specific engine, and stuff. This limits the community away from QuakeII and towards the specific mods and the engine that they depend upon.

Those seems to be the reasons why Ranger366 prefers Quake 2.
The original Quake 2 3.21 engine is certainly much better than the original WinQuake 1.09, and most "content + progs.dat/game.dll" TCs made for both of them would look better in Quake 2.
However, this point is moot since he could simply include the engine's binary (any engine of his choice, even custom ones) in the release, making the TC standalone, and also since he already mentioned that he'd like the engine to support new model and audio formats, which means that his engine of choice would be a custom one anyway.
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