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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: Design Documents? |

Does anyone in the modding scene actually write design documents? I personally make a few notes in a txt file about the overall idea and maybe one or two finer points. The txt usually comes into play when the idea contains a list of things that need to be done or added. It also later serves as a todo as the bullet points of the 'design' become todo items, it also serves sort of as a scratch pad for displaced code.
Some of you have done larger projects, I'm interested to hear how you work.

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Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: |

I probably would if I ever did a really big modding project, but thus far I've only done smaller stuff. _________________ woh... feelin woozy... too much cider... http://entar.quakedev.com games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: |

For Envenom I did, TAoV was just built by suggestions by others and my own ideas and twists on established ideas. Generally, no I don't make design docs.

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HeadThump Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Zin |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |

I have about a dozen notebooks full of detailed discriptions and drawings of maps, monsters, NPC's, puzzles, tricks, and story lines for mods for Quake, Thief, Deus Ex, NOLF, Doom 3 and stand alone TC's. I also have dozens of prototyped maps and models on my hard drive.
As compulsive as that sounds I really sift through my material patiently until things comes together in interesting ways.
edited: Just noticed that this is in the coding section, so related to code documentation specifically -- errr - awkward

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Pulseczar Joined: 12 Aug 2006 Posts: 37 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |

my list is basically just reminders of what needs to be done, granted that I haven't done any big QuakeC projects yet..

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |

HeadThump wrote:
edited: Just noticed that this is in the coding section, so related to code documentation specifically -- errr - awkward

Not really, actually it was one of scar3crow's posts on doing a design document for a map that spurred me to ask the question (mostly by how odd that sounds... a design document... for a map). I just felt more coders would reply than anyone else, since I've always pictured a design document to be more of a guide for a programmer.
Sketches seem the way for artists and mappers, since their work is very visual.

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: |

I usually start with a few notes in text files, but eventually those become outdated and the entirety of the vision is in my head (and it's often not very well defined)... from that point on usually I keep only a fairly detailed todo list. _________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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ajay Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Swindon, UK |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |

I've done design documents (well I call them that, whether they qualify for as such is a different story) for 2 mods: Lunkin's Journey and my current one, EarthQUAKE. The Lunkin's Journey one was very short on detail and basically listed each "world" rather than each level and described what would live there, what would happen and the basic purpose in being there, e.g. finds brother, kills him, gets new power.
For each level, as I went along, I'd basically write what I'd want to happen; "big battle on open field" (*sobs*) and I may (especially at work...) scribble some vague outline of code I needed, either actually lines or what I wanted it to do.
Nearer the end I wrote synopsis's (sp.?) for the last few levels I had to complete, so I knew how I was going to finish the damn thing.
The main problem with all of the above was that it was all too vague, and there were too many ideas that were great on paper, but 1) I couldn't actually do, and therefore 2) never made it into the mod.
With earthQUAKE I'm being very precise; I've a large folder with scribbled plot ideas, photos and sketches of cities, both damaged and "new", and a whole load of script/dialogue, code examples.
There's also a very detailed story now, which basically covers the who mod, beginning to end, and I'm pretty sure there's nothing that I'll not be able to include.
My main job to do in finishing the document is in fitting the story into a level structure, whcih si what I'm doing now, there are also some issues around "Telling the story"; cutscenes, dialogue. speech etc., but it's all good.
What remains to be seen is whether or not all this planning actually makes for a better mod...
edit: taken from the Lionhead Fable 2 website:

Quote:
Finally, if anyone's interested, our design document currently stands at 1,364 pages, or 72,176 lines, or 549,259 words, or 2,623,422 letters.

_________________
my site

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SkinnedAlive Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 65 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |

My design document tends to come in the form of a single text file kept in my qc directory. First I write out a general plan of what I want the mod to be, with bulletpoints like "Weapon 3 is a dart gun, paralyses target" or "New soldier monster with harpoon gun, replaces enforcer".
Then, when the project has a clear direction I write out a more in-depth todo list about specifically what functions need to be written, what any new values will be and resources that need to be gathered. This helps keep track of what has been done and what hasn't which is especially useful as I often revert to backups when i'm trying stuff out.
And finally, if i'm having difficulty getting my head around the coding i'll meticulously plan out every function and every variable and their relationships to cover all my bases before I start coding.

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MauveBib Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 602 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |

I usually write a short text file definine a few ideas for the project, but that usually ends up out of date pretty quickly. I generally have my ideas in my head, and just build them organically, changing and improving the ideas as I go. I've only tried doing a full design doc a few times, and each time I've ended up abandoning the mod because it seems too much like hard work.
_________________
Apathy Now!

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Dr. Shadowborg Inside3D Staff Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 726 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |

Prior to my more recent work, I'd not used design docs. Now, I make them on a regular basis, for whatever mod I'm doing. This way, I don't forget any good ideas to do. Generally though, it's a single file in the mod directory, generally detailing features , weapons, monsters, etc. and whatnot.
_________________
"Roboto suggests Plasma Bazooka."

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |

Nowadays I just make a TODO and a Roadmap. _________________

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Quake Matt Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |

Just a little todo list for me, and sometimes a collection of notes about things I've already coded.

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Tei Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 195 |

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Design Documents? |

FrikaC wrote:
Does anyone in the modding scene actually write design documents?

I draw my ideas with a pen, but theres also stuff I do the wrong way, rushing code sessions. 50%/50%.

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spamalam Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 30 |

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |

If I was making my own mod from scratch (I only just looked at a modding quake a few months back and have done a little bit of playing, decompiled an old but not well known mod and have picked up and made a few changes), I would document it.
Whenever I start a Java project i'll use some UML diagrams, and obviously get to a design level class diagram. For QuakeC... meh, I've not done anything big enough, or infact a project from scratch to warrant it. That said i probably would.

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