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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |

ajay wrote:
Codename: Envenom : if I recall correctly you had it and TAOV beginning at roughly the same time, and I was kinda hoping that C:E would be the keeper, but then you went and made TAOV all good and all and C:E went away

Yeah that's pretty much what happened, my biggest problem is changing the scope of a project as time goes on in order to make it a bit more fun, or interesting, and especially to add play time. One day I just sat back and looked at Envenom and realized I wasn't happy with it and made several mistakes that would need fixing but would require going backwards (something I hate), like the lack of any real horror atmosphere due to Corporal being a bad ass in a suit among others. Though it was a great learning experience, and did a few things in the Quake engine which nobody else really takes advantage of (ingame cutscenes that are skippable, real ladders, unique cameras, etc). A bit of Envenom code is still used in my mods till this day. I'm just happy it works on Dreamcast and got a demo release.
Lunkin was pretty fun but I found it hard at times (dogs = rape, huge forest = low FPS, etc) and the odd game crashing QuakeC glitches were troublesome, unfortunately I never did end up finishing it :\ I should get around to that.

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |

RenegadeC wrote:
...like the lack of any real horror atmosphere due to Corporal being a bad ass in a suit among others. ..

You should know that has nothing to do with horror atmosphere. I found envenom scary, and have found other games with heavy armaments or armor scary too. AvP had some pretty heavy duty weaponry, but that didn't make you shit your pants any less.
Now that I think about it, Corporal might have had a voice after some point in development, which totally ruined the mood. Or am I thinking of something else?
I still think Envenom was your coolest mod, since it actually did manage to be scary to some extent, even though often pretty infuriating to play due to it being too hard or sometimes confusing, or the stupid must-run-to-door-in-time-before-it-closes "puzzle", which I failed 20 too many times. You should give a go at horror again, this time DP only.
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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |

I remember codename envenom. That was crazy hard, but very cool. I really liked Dino Crisis and Resident Evil 4 (as well as a few other survival horror games like Extermination), and I think you at least met, if not exceeded, the creepy fear factor.
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RenegadeC Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 370 Location: The freezing hell; Canada |

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |

Urre wrote:

RenegadeC wrote:
...like the lack of any real horror atmosphere due to Corporal being a bad ass in a suit among others. ..

You should know that has nothing to do with horror atmosphere. I found envenom scary, and have found other games with heavy armaments or armor scary too. AvP had some pretty heavy duty weaponry, but that didn't make you shit your pants any less.
Now that I think about it, Corporal might have had a voice after some point in development, which totally ruined the mood. Or am I thinking of something else?
I still think Envenom was your coolest mod, since it actually did manage to be scary to some extent, even though often pretty infuriating to play due to it being too hard or sometimes confusing, or the stupid must-run-to-door-in-time-before-it-closes "puzzle", which I failed 20 too many times. You should give a go at horror again, this time DP only.

This is probably the most feedback I've received for Envenom, sorry I don't mean to hijack this topic but I'll reply.
Maybe I'll ressurrect it again later in the future, but it probably won't be based off Corporal (Bad ass in a suit = done too many times). I had no problem with the door sequence, but I guess when you're the creator of a mod it becomes that way although it was pretty tough combat-wise. If you truly want creepy horror that I was intending with Envenom, play Stealth Quake. =P
As for Corporals voice he only spoke about 1 line and that was it, heh.

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |

RenegadeC wrote:
If you truly want creepy horror that I was intending with Envenom, play Stealth Quake. =P

Sorry, Quake monsters just don't do it for me anymore
I need something more fresh, and Envenom had lots of new content. Not saying you should resurrect Envenom, just do something similar. Or possibly Stealth Quake with new maps and monsters. But I must say I liked the 3rd person deal, even though I disliked how RE it was. I'd rather see a fixed camera that follows the player around, isometric style, looking in into the level from the outside. But that sort of thing is tough to do in Quake in a clean way.
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LordHavoc Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 243 Location: western Oregon, USA |

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |

Urre wrote:

RenegadeC wrote:
If you truly want creepy horror that I was intending with Envenom, play Stealth Quake. =P

Sorry, Quake monsters just don't do it for me anymore
I need something more fresh, and Envenom had lots of new content. Not saying you should resurrect Envenom, just do something similar. Or possibly Stealth Quake with new maps and monsters.

I still wish I had finished dpmod's second concept for a standalone (non-Quake) singleplayer campaign, coop oriented, with entirely emergent gameplay (no pre-placed monsters at all, and minimal scripting - mostly of destroyable stuff), lots of interactive scenery (walls that could be broken by explosives, breakable boards, etc) and semi-intelligent monsters with their own personalities (need for food, water, hostile/friendly/neutral reactions to each kind of monster, pack leader AI for some of them, and other ideas for teamwork).
It focused on Aliens-inspired marine squads exploring abandoned ruins of temples and other places, infested with Diablo1-inspired creatures, with loot to find, exits to reach, secondary objectives, occasional super monsters, etc.

Urre wrote:
But I must say I liked the 3rd person deal, even though I disliked how RE it was. I'd rather see a fixed camera that follows the player around, isometric style, looking in into the level from the outside. But that sort of thing is tough to do in Quake in a clean way.

Tough to do in any game.
For example the Prydon maps had to be made entirely with the camera in mind, and it still occasionally clips on a wall or platform above you, and the same happens in Prophecy as well (although less often), Prophecy may have to switch to using a fixed camera plane (like The Ascension of Vigil uses) to prevent the camera from interacting at all with obstacles (even if that means you can't see the player in some cases).

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |

Tough to do in any game? Got to disagree there. It depends on how open the basic platform is, assuming you're working on a mod. Otherwise giving the camera collision or else making the props interpolate to opacity 0 when in between the player and camera works.
But for those you need a team.
</OnTopic>
My biggest failure was Ratamahatta's Revenge - Q2 Lazarus based on the ratamahatta model in a semi-open world theme based over something like 14 levels, with only five (various routes, different maps) needing to be played to finish it. It featured a modified version of the mutant, but that was the only original enemy.
I got pretty close to a mini-pack - start map, swamp map, city map, tunnels map, base map, mines map and small boss map, but almost none of those could compile with light because of the size.
And all that work in hard form was lost in a nasty graphics card meltdown - it melted the plastic cover off the card board itself; a clogged fan to blame.
There's some backup cd's left over, but it's closed book. I reckon most of the above tales of failure (I only skimmed) all point to the same thing - bad concepts for finished projects, but great learning curves.

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LordHavoc Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 243 Location: western Oregon, USA |

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |

ijed wrote:
Tough to do in any game? Got to disagree there. It depends on how open the basic platform is, assuming you're working on a mod. Otherwise giving the camera collision or else making the props interpolate to opacity 0 when in between the player and camera works.

I think you misunderstand what I'm talking about - you can't make solid walls of an enclosed level "fade out", the map has to be entirely designed for the camera, it can't be an enclosed quake-like level, designing all levels of a game to be very friendly to the camera is the "tough" thing I mentioned.

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |

Fair enough - Quake is set up for bsp and not occlusion by object / face.

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