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nephaalim Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2 |

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: Quake Ported to XNA ! |

Not Spam! Just not sure if anybody has seen this or not - but I thought this may be of interest....http://perpixel.spaces.live.com/blog/ Perpixel has started a project porting Classic Quake to Microsoft's new DirectX based XNA framework. Exiting news for anyone running VIsta and having issues with OpenGL !!!

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |

Sorry, but eww Is he basing it off the original source or writing it from scratch without borrowing *anything*? Tell him that he is not allowed to redistribute Quake gfx files and that he HAS to release his source with every binary, otherwise he is violating the GPL. Though I guess someone who has sold his soul to microsoft wouldn't know much about open source.
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F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |

From what I read in his blog I understand he's writing everything from scratch - a considerable effort, I recognize. But, for his poor programming language choice, I must echo your "eeewww", too _________________ frag.machine - Q2K4 Project http://fragmachine.quakedev.com/

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PerPixel Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 7 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |

The language is a good choice.. In fact the the only choice if you want it to run on XBOX 360. I do have a 360 Devkit but its not a challenge to just recompile with a new d3d renderer... And the fact that I cant redistribute it if I do kinda remove the fun of it.
I do plan to release the code but that because I understand how open source is important. I wrote the thing from scratch and I understand the GPL quite well since I released code under it a few time before.
XNA is great. I own a yaroze and a PS2 linux and I can tell you XNA is light years ahead. But you cant really understand that right? Never debugged code on a PS3 I bet... I, no fan of microsoft but you got to admit that they really make life better for developer like me.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: |

PerPixel wrote:
I do plan to release the code but that because I understand how open source is important. I wrote the thing from scratch and I understand the GPL quite well since I released code under it a few time before.

Don't plan. You are REQUIRED to release the source code of a GPL licensed project, or don't release anything (includnig binary) at all.
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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |

Even if you are not basing your code on the original C codebase, you are probably using it as reference and basically translating some segments to C#. The GPL still covers this as far as I know, so I would recommend releasing source with every binary release, to prevent the risk of being boycotted by certain picky Quake community members, like us <-- smiley added to try not to sound mean to someone new
Anyway, it's a neat thing, keeping Quake alive is good. Dunno what kind of audience a homebrew project using copyrighted models/maps/etc can reach though.
Yeah, I've heard Microsoft makes good devkits for small time programmers/programming teams (though Playstation editions get fine third party tools once they've been out for half a decade...)
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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PerPixel Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 7 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |

I'm not required and have no interest in pleasing you. I seriously don't care about audience and I'm doing this for fun using http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/spec/quake-spec31.html The only place I feel I could be saving time by using or translating the code is in the QC for AI or something. Oh I did check value for ammo and power up time and pickups...
Oh and yeah I'm a small time programmer/developer lol. You really have no idea how small. I think third after EA in North America.
Its quite amazing how people can be asshole about the code. If you really have a good reason and need it, just send me an email so I can send it to you. Oh if you take the time to go out of forums and read my blog you could be checking the code for my BSPClass. It use struct & variable names from the quake source and is under the GPL.
I used to think inside3d was cool and I enjoyed coming here for some tips on QC a long time ago. I hope you guys do not represent this community.
Boycotte me and see if I care.

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FrikaC Site Admin Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 947 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |

Guys, chill out. PerPixel: CheapAlert does not represent this community. We revoked his ID badge and sent him out into the cold many moons ago. I think people have just been burned by people not releasing their source in the past, I know from my own experience, playing the GP32 port of ROTT - the programmer who ported this GPL source code chose not to release his source as is required and he hard coded the buttons to some really bizarre and awkward config (the config screen doesn't function either). Also, iirc, he neglected to give the player access to the switch weapon command. So a beautifully done and endlessly playable port is hindered by a few small things.
Indeed, in the Quake community, it was a long time before anyone could replicate the speed and usability of QuakeDC - the professional port of Quake to the Dreamcast. I'm not sure if they have still. An Xbox 360 port is another great extension of the community and I think most people here will probably welcome it. I know I do.
I guess the main concern is that you'll spontaneously vanish taking your contributions to the community with you, that's why some people get rather uppity about the GPL.
As for Sajt - I think he's just an anti-Microsoft type.

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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |

Cheapalert is wrong. What he should have said is: You are REQUIRED to release [or offer (valid for a period of 3 years)] the source code of a GPL licensed project, or don't release anything (including binary) at all. Your only real problem is that you don't mention that the entire work is gpled. Just make sure you include gpl.txt from one of the source zips, and mention it in your readme.
But what confuses me is what BSPFILE.cs file is all about, seeing as those function names do not appear in your quake_win32.exe, while the function names that do appear in there are the ones with the Mod_ prefix exactly as in the quake source.
I wish you luck with your project and urge you to do it legally, if only to silence cheapy.
As for me, I'm picky about words and have a different definition of the word 'scratch'.
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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |

PerPixel wrote:
I used to think inside3d was cool and I enjoyed coming here for some tips on QC a long time ago. I hope you guys do not represent this community. Boycotte me and see if I care.

hi shadowalker
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PerPixel Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 7 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |

I rewrote the BSP class because that one was a first attempt and sucked. At first I thought that just porting is faster and I was wrong. It's easier to rewrite using all the class XNA offer for ray casting, collision, input.... So I have a renderer, a server, a client, a bsp class providing triangles and textures bundle, a model class with tris and frames and a game class. So yeah I'm not using Quake code because it take a lot more code if im not using XNA class thats it.
I'd like to have someone helping me with this and finish it but when I asked for it I got no offer so why waste time registering on Sourceforge and having to sync code that no one need. I quite busy and I do this on my rare spare time. And again I do understand the GPL. I love Debian and Slashdot is my Firefox homepage.

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Quake Matt Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 129 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |

Hey, nice to see you here, PerPixel! I spotted your project a while ago on Ziggyware, but after the response I got last time I mentioned XNA here, I decided to stay quiet. Now there's two of us that think XNA rocks!

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1026 |

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |

If you're so above inside3d, why are you still here? Trying to pick fights no less. I know advice like this never works and just makes people indignant, but try a better attitude next time. And as for the audience thing, glad that's cleared up.
FrikaC: I don't have a problem with C#. I guess I'm just a little obsessive about the GPL...
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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scar3crow Inside3D Staff Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |

Yikes this thread exploded =( It is a port of Quake, a unique one and thus I felt it was a worthy news post. Im not the biggest Microsoft fan, nor do I hate them, I dont know jack about XNA either way, but if someone is able to do good stable work with it that doesnt tarnish Quake, then I am fine with it.
As far as GPL things... I think this community really needs to work on its soft voice on the matter, informing, not condemning. We got burnt by people like shadowalker, and unfortunately seem to presume others will be like him.
PerPixel - I do apologize for the strong terms used here, it does seem to be a large misunderstanding. I thank you for your work on Quake and your kind words regarding Inside3d, and hope you do return even if just to poke at the QuakeC information.
Just goes to show, I never know whos reading the little news posts I make, and how we should step more gently, particularly with a community this small, towards newcomers (as far as we know they are) - That and its just the decent thing to do. We have been burnt once, thats no reason to flame back from then on.

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nephaalim Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2 |

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |

Wow... personally I was exited to see this since I am running Vista (OEM forced) and interested in using XNA for the sake of getting an introduction to writing 3d engines and game programming as a hobby. Hobby implying that I have some spare time on weekends to put something together.
If i can write something relatively quick and toss it on a friends xbox as well, then that's a bonus. Frankly, if Torque is willing to port it, then it is good enough for me...
And Sajt, if you want to talk attitude I suggest you stay away from language such as "Though I guess someone who has sold his soul to microsoft wouldn't know much about open source", "small time programmers" and then follow up with "If you're so above inside3d, why are you still here? Trying to pick fights no less. When all PerPixel was doing was responding to offensive posts.
PerPixel - please keep it up. I used to come here too from time to time out of love of the Quake modding world and now wish to get into deeper development but need a decent RAD tool to do it with since I dont have the time to dedicate to it. If you have time, engine tutorials similar to the Hazy Mind XNa Engine tuts would be great.
FrikaC - thanks for having the right attitude. When I was a newb (last time I was here was the Scratch Tutorial days) , you were always patient and willing to help out. Congrats on staying consistent.
Cheers guys.

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