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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Pak0.pak and Pak1.pak using OpenQuartz, id Map Sources |

Download: http://www.quake-1.com/files/modfiles/free-pak0-pak1.zip I compiled the Quake maps using the iD Map Sources and spent some time making a pak0.pak and pak1.pak that have 100% of the models and sounds. I used simple textures as the basis for the textures, figuring that those would for sure be in the clear. This stuff can be improved later, but I wanted to focus on something workable and done first.
Admittedly, I filled a lot of holes with null.wav and a couple of missing models, I duplicated some of the existing OpenQuartz models and renamed them to the fill the void.
I also took Plague's Pak, some pretty nice replacement models and also changed some of the sounds with free sounds I found on "free sounds" web sites.
I wanted to post this here to get feedback on this and other thoughts since you guys are pretty much "the brains" in Quake.
/Note: 2 maps have issues so far: DM5 is somehow full bright and END isn't exactly like the real end map in the ID map source release.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1322 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Pak0.pak and Pak1.pak using OpenQuartz, id Map Sources |

Baker wrote:
I also took Plague's Pak, some pretty nice replacement models and also changed some of the sounds with free sounds I found on "free sounds" web sites.

Way to break the GPL.
_________________

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |

The maps are GPL, some of the non-map content isn't GPL. The whole thing does not have to GPL. I can itemize the different content in a readme.txt. Pak files are glorified zip files. I don't see a problem with this as long as the documentation is thorough.
Or am I wrong somehow? Case in point, I believe there are mods that use a GPL engine, usually DarkPlaces, but do not GPL their textures, maps and models. But you guys are more familiar with these types of questions.
Either way, I can do and intend to do whatever I need to do to appropriately do this properly.

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Megazoid Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 116 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |

Weeee, another GPL / Free Quake thread I don't think I have even seen anybody definitively say that a completely GPL'ed "free" version of Quake is even possible. Surely if you produce something that looks, sounds and smells like Quake, but is using completely free or GPL'ed content, id Software could still object due to breach of their Intellectual Property?
Personally, I think id Software would crush any free Quake project like a bug given the chance. Why would you allow somebody to release a free version of your game while you are still actively selling the product on your website? You are basically trying to f*ck them over at the end of the day lol.
I guess you may never find an answer until you make "Free Quake", and then either go to id Software yourself, or wait until somebody rats you out.
CheapAlert's comment is fairly typical. He won't define "how" you have broken the GPL, and since he has been recently working on his own "Free Quake" project, I assume he feels the project is do-able somehow.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: |

It isn't a recreation of Quake, it is the assembly of GPL'd materials in most cases and other materials in other cases to neet the minimum requirements of connecting to a Quake server. I've had exchanges with ID software in the past and have already been told this ok.
They said it was permissible IF
1. No ID software content is downloaded (media, sounds, textures)
2. No ID software content is used by the user
So I'm in the all clear with that stuff.

Quote:
CheapAlert's comment is fairly typical. He won't define "how" you have broken the GPL, and since he has been recently working on his own "Free Quake" project, I assume he feels the project is do-able somehow.

Yeah, the project is doable. I asked ID Software a lot of questions and clarifications about the rules.
scar3crow getting the map sources released was the biggy that made this doable.
[quote]

Quote:
CheapAlert's comment is fairly typical. He won't define "how" you have broken the GPL, and since he has been recently working on his own "Free Quake" project

I've studied up on the topic and see no reason that GPL and non-GPL content can't be in the same zip file or same pak file, provided it is documented appropriately.
Many games have GPL and non-GPL content in the same download or zip, Transfusion is just one example of this. http://www.transfusion-game.com/

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Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 18 |

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |

Ignore cheapalert. all he does is whine. _________________ -up2

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Megazoid Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 116 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |

Quote:
It isn't a recreation of Quake, it is the assembly of GPL'd materials in most cases and other materials in other cases to neet the minimum requirements of connecting to a Quake server.

I must be missing a subtle difference then.
Free Quake Recipe
Download the following, and simmer over a slow flame:
1. DarkPlaces Engine
2. Baker's Pak0 & Pak1 files
// Okay, so now I can run single player and multiplayer Quake, but it looks and sounds terrible...
3. Mindgrid:audio - QUAKE
// It's not great, but now it sounds kinda like Quake
4.Quake Retexturing Project textures
5.Quake Remodeled Ammo Box pak
All you are missing is proper replacements mdls for the main characters, some touchup work... and taddah!
Lets face facts Baker, in your quest to make Quake more accessable and popular, you are heading directly in the Free Quake direction. You might as well call a spade a spade
Don't get me wrong. I'm never had a problem with your work. I'm a fan. I'm just saying....

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1027 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |

Mindgrid's sounds can't be called free, since half of them are the equivalent of taking a Quake texture and resampling it up to 4x the original size. And the textures and weapon/ammo models are obviously working off the originals as a base/reference, I don't know how free that counts as...
Still a step in the right direction though I guess...
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |

Megazoid wrote:
Lets face facts Baker, in your quest to make Quake more accessable and popular, you are heading directly in the Free Quake direction. You might as well call a spade a spade Don't get me wrong. I'm never had a problem with your work. I'm a fan. I'm just saying....

It is the play-style of Quake for online play that I want to make more accessible, but I'm only interested in doing it legally.
I played online with the very unfaithful and bad sounding pak files and enjoyed playing it.
If I could, I'd switch to whole Quake community to an equivalent total conversion (Nexuiz comes close, but not close enough). (And I still might try this in the future, hehe).
Quake has always been ugly. When you play online, what things look like don't matter because you focus on your opponent and everything else fades out, which is why a lot of players prefer ProQuake -- despite how very ugly it is compared to the newer engines.
So truth be told, I don't really care what the online play looks like or what it sounds like, so I am not heading in any direction.
In fact, I have to say I like playing with this hideous hodge pack better than the actual Quake because the HUD looks better.

Quote:
3. Mindgrid:audio - QUAKE // It's not great, but now it sounds kinda like Quake 4.Quake Retexturing Project textures 5.Quake Remodeled Ammo Box pak

But Megzoid, you downloaded so many files that contain proprietary content in that example you might as well use bit torrent steal a copy of Quake, heh.
Last edited by Baker on Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:05 am; edited 2 times in total

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |

Megazoid wrote:
All you are missing is proper replacements mdls for the main characters, some touchup work... and taddah!

I'm stripping the monsters out of the .map sources and re-compiling.
The single player isn't usable in this anyway and if someone wants singleplayer they are looking in the wrong place anyway --- they should try shareware or buy the game.
I personally think the most amazing Quake-specific experiences come from running custom single player maps and many other things that make the atmosphere of Quake unique and I do believe Quake is a game worth buying.
Thanks for your comments/thinking on this Megazoid, by doing this I think it will be more clear what I am trying to do and not do.
I may even bork the texture names to make it incompatible with texture packs and such.

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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1322 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: |

Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] wrote:
Ignore cheapalert. all he does is whine.

Yeah, but don't cry to me if Todd Hollenshead sends a C&D of turning OpenQuartz into a total Quake IP trespassery with licenses breaching left and right. This is like taking Freedoom, and installing the Doomsday Resource packs, then redistributing the whole file as if it were a new freeware game, all proclaiming to be 'legal' when in reality it's treading in the red zone.
It's important to take legal matters seriously, and having a 'they won't care' attitude all about it will land you in some serious trouble.
_________________

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: |

CheapAlert wrote:
if you've seen this post you'll notice i've started retexturing the dm levels with Free (NOT FREEWARE OR PUBLIC DOMAIN, I mean Free Software) textures from OpenQuartz and OpenArena starting with DM4 hopefully retexturing all the dm levels will give a good base to start replicating the rest of the textures with.
I prefer not to base a wad on any retexturing project since licenses and risk of deriving from id's original artwork and trademarks is an iffy issue.

If you do it, it's fine! If someone else does it and that person isn't you, OMG! you are breaking some license agreement somehow.
Funny stuff

CheapAlert wrote:

Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] wrote:
Ignore cheapalert. all he does is whine.

Yeah, but don't cry to me if Todd Hollenshead sends a C&D of turning OpenQuartz into a total Quake IP trespassery with licenses breaching left and right. This is like taking Freedoom, and installing the Doomsday Resource packs, then redistributing the whole file as if it were a new freeware game, all proclaiming to be 'legal' when in reality it's treading in the red zone.
It's important to take legal matters seriously, and having a 'they won't care' attitude all about it will land you in some serious trouble.

Yes, Open Arena, Warsow, Tremulous, Nexuiz and Qake are certainly all-new ideas of course, aren't they?
I don't mean that as a troll post either. FPS games are all the same. You always have sort of rocket launcher, shotgun and axe/crowbar/melee weapon.
Don't you agree, Mr. "Let's Make Quake" and Mr. "Hi, I am cloning Quake III Arena"?
/And using Quake 1 maps in your Quake 3 Arena clone, to boot.

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Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 18 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |

Sajt wrote:
And the textures and weapon/ammo models are obviously working off the originals as a base/reference, I don't know how free that counts as...

Please don't start false rumors about the Quake Retexture/Remodel project.
ALL of our textures and models are 100% (read: COMPLETELY) from scratch.
Taken straight from our FAQ:
7. Can I use the textures for commercial as well as non-commercial usage?
The textures are made from scratch and are in no way copyrighted. You are completely free to use the textures we make in any way, shape, or form. However if you use these textures in any way, even as a base, you MUST mention the URL and name of this project and our Team in the credits. No exceptions.
_________________
-up2

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Baker Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1538 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: |

I've got something to add to this: As Richard Stallman would say, the GPL is about freedom to do whatever you choose with the released work ... sometimes even knowing that someone might use it to do something you didn't think of and maybe not even agree with.
This can be done with 100% GPL stuff right now.
Either ID Software supports the GPL and everything that comes with that or they do not. I believe they do.
I believe jack and shit will come from CheapAlert's whining, to be bluntly honest. I intend to do this in an absolutely ethical and appropriately documented manner.
To some, like CheapAlert, the idea of the true intent of GPL is lost on him and is nothing more than something to use in a nerd argument.
But the GPL is about freedom.
Either ID Software meant to release the engine and the map sources to the GPL or they did not. I believe they DO understand what the GPL is about and released the sources KNOWING what the GPL means and stands for.
But if I am somehow wrong -- and I am not -- and CheapAlert's point of view is what happens, then ID Software should never have released the map sources under the GPL.
/Btw ... thanks for the clarification, Up2

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Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1027 |

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |

Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] wrote:
Please don't start false rumors about the Quake Retexture/Remodel project. ALL of our textures and models are 100% (read: COMPLETELY) from scratch. Taken straight from our FAQ: 7. Can I use the textures for commercial as well as non-commercial usage?
The textures are made from scratch and are in no way copyrighted. You are completely free to use the textures we make in any way, shape, or form. However if you use these textures in any way, even as a base, you MUST mention the URL and name of this project and our Team in the credits. No exceptions.

LOUD NOISES!
Please read my post and don't start accusing me of stuff.

me wrote:
And the textures and weapon/ammo models are obviously working off the originals as a base/reference, I don't know how free that c o u n ts as...

WHY ARE WE YELLING!
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

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