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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |

One thing Quake modders and mappers in general should do more, is use static models for detail in maps. For example, all those lovely chains you got, what if you made them in QME instead? It's not very hard at all, and they'll render literally hundreds times faster. MDL supports virtually infinite sizes for models, although the precision goes lower the further away your vertexes are from the center of the model, but I challenge you to notice this on a static model. Can be used for all kinds of things, like a huge rock wall, then just make some low-def invisible func_wall's for collision, or this skip-texture thing you're talking about (which by the way sounds lovely). HL2 does this for all kinds of things, like the pipes and crap like that. It's super easy and super effective. It's already been done many times, such as trees and dead bodies, but not on the scale I'm thinking about. Once I made huge handrails for staircases, large jail-bar doors, large lamps for a map for Prydon Gate (never released). Worked like a charm! Make sure to let the mapper decide the size of the bounding box for the model, or large ones won't be seen around corners in old engines.
Wicked stuff you've got going
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goldenboy Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Kiel |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |

Good point Urre. We actually have a func_model to simply load one into a map, and this has been planned, but one of our problems is that we are short on modellers, skin/texture artists and animators. I should probably spend more time in QME - but with ~ 12 maps on the plate, it happens rarely :-/ and I suck at making skins...
It should happen more, yeah.
What I plan to have in one map is this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Trebuchet.jpg
We have been discussing it a little, if it would be better to do it as a model or with rotating brushes etc... and I also have some rotating bridges that I would love to have as a .mdl instead of having to do brushwork... but it can wait. Other stuff to do first.
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 910 |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: |

Even if you don't do them as an MDL, howabout grouping all the brushes together as a single func_wall (or func_illusionary if the player should be able to walk through them)? Not as ideal, but will certainly help with the BSP tree. _________________
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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |

Well Rhogog (big blue prop) is probably going to become mdl as opposed to func_wall and we want to do alot with model itself. Madfox has tried it before on a big scale to make skybox style mountain range around the periphery of an outdoor area.
Brushwork just isn't very good for details, in any way.
So yeah, we want to get mapobjects in there, but manpower is low on the modeling / skinning front.
. . . do you want an extra job where you don't get paid?

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Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |

I think the problem with models is that no editor supports properly placing them. Please tell me I am wrong and tell what editor nicely shows them. _________________ Quake Maps

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |

BSP can show one model per entity type. Someone should make it able to show based on entity key of your choice (set which one to read in the config), shouldn't be too hard? As far as skinning goes, can't you just use whatever map textures you use anyway? It's dead easy, that's what I did.
I could do some for you, depending on how hard they'd be to make. Something like a chain wouldn't take very long at all. You could make a base map come alive even more with some pipes in random corners and whatnot, also dead easy models to make.
Claws and flesh spikes and such should also be somewhat easy. Valves for the pipes shouldn't be hard either. Wooden beams and stuff are also easy...
@mh: the main reason I made the handrail and all that in the first place was because submodels can't be very complex at all. They quickly start eating fps, and after too much detail you hit a hardcoded limit of amount of faces a submodel can be rendered with, so the console gets spammed with error messages when the thing is in view, and you only see a portion of the polygons.
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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 910 |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |

Urre wrote:
BSP can show one model per entity type. Someone should make it able to show based on entity key of your choice (set which one to read in the config), shouldn't be too hard? As far as skinning goes, can't you just use whatever map textures you use anyway? It's dead easy, that's what I did.
I could do some for you, depending on how hard they'd be to make. Something like a chain wouldn't take very long at all. You could make a base map come alive even more with some pipes in random corners and whatnot, also dead easy models to make.
Claws and flesh spikes and such should also be somewhat easy. Valves for the pipes shouldn't be hard either. Wooden beams and stuff are also easy...
@mh: the main reason I made the handrail and all that in the first place was because submodels can't be very complex at all. They quickly start eating fps, and after too much detail you hit a hardcoded limit of amount of faces a submodel can be rendered with, so the console gets spammed with error messages when the thing is in view, and you only see a portion of the polygons.

Ah,that makes sense.
Yeah, lots of claws and spikes should be good. Anything that fits in with the Quake theme and adds to the hostile atmosphere is a winner with me.
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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: |

Cogs!

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 910 |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |

Don't forget the chains. I wanna see some chains in e1m2! _________________ DirectQ Engine - New release 1.8.666a, 9th August 2010 MHQuake Blog (General) Direct3D 8 Quake Engines

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |

I was going to make chains out of looping func_trains. Don't know how it'd work for models without a func_modeltrain. Since alot of engines have vertex interpolation. So modeltrain is on the cards.

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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |

You could do it even easier by "firing" chain models with intervals out of model emitters, and have them die after a set time. _________________ Look out for Twigboy

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |

Good idea . . . the emitter system (imported from extras) is very powerful, we haven't yet exploited it enough. I've used it for a bsp rockfall in e3m4, making properly random lava and slime balls and also rain. Next up are some interesting traps. I'm thinking of nail shotters being affected by magnetic fields.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |

half-life bsp would show them in the editor in the last version released. IF the models were in hl.mdl format... _________________ QuakeDB - Quake ModDB Group

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ijed Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 46 Location: Chile, SA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |

You mean Hammer? So we could have two versions - the .mdl version for the game and an editor .hl version? I go to google, thanks for the heads up.

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ceriux Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Florida, USA |

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |

yeah in the last version of hammer released for hl1 , if you set up the directories correctly. it will show the model in the 3d view. you could just set up a basic hl1 mod folder use your own custom hl1 models. and map and place them easier. just after compile place your new bsp and used mdls in your quake mod/game directory. i belive the last version was hammer 3.5
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