Index | FAQ | Search | Memberlist | Usergroups | Profile | Log in to check your private messages | Log in | Register

Is the Quake modding community really this dead? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion

View previous topic :: View next topic
Author | Message
--- | ---
Nash Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 95 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: Is the Quake modding community really this dead? |

I've been modding for Doom engines for a long time, and, unsatisfied with the lack of modding capabilities, I decided to try to learn Quake modding. Although I've started posting here a few days ago, I can tell you that this isn't the first time I tried QuakeC - but the fifth. Yes, back in 2005 I was like "okay I'm gonna learn this stuff" but I gave up due to the lack of documentation on so many important things.
Quake modding is so undocumented in general to the point that newbies can't really do anything even if they have all the tools and source files.
On top of that, Google searches for Quake-modding-related terms are usually fruitless.
I only started learning how to MAKE something happen with QC when I found the Quake wiki at QSG...
I'm slowly getting the hang of QuakeC now but it took me five attempts and two years to figure it out.
In comparison, over at the Doom communities, you have newbies coming in already making mods, new monsters and stuff because every aspect of modding for the engines is so well-documented.
Doom-related forums are full of activity, if you don't read the forum for a day and you check for new posts, you will usually find a long list of forum threads to read. On top of that, there's the usual Doom community drama which is good for your daily lulz consumption.
I decided to register here, quakesrc.org and quakedev.com in search for Quake modding help but after I read some of the forum posts (and looked at the dates) I was almost reluctant to post.
I was afraid to post my questions because I somehow think I am not going to get any replies, the enthuisiasm will be lost because I'm not making the things I want to happen work, and my threads will finally rot in the forum database with zero replies and I'd have long given up yet again.
I guess that's just the way it is... Quake modding is very newbie-unfriendly and that's why I think it feels dead around here (and the other Quake-modding forums).
There are some good tutorials here but it's all copy-paste oriented and I don't really learn anything from that. A better tutorial would be one that explains how QuakeC works, stuff like language structure, etc.
I am sorry for this rant, it's really a newbie rant, I know, "stfu n00b" but I really want to be good at this stuff, but the lack of even basic documentation for so many things has made it really difficult for me to do the stuff I want to do.
I think what really needs to be done is that the wiki has to be heavily edited to accomodate newbies. The pages should take the person by the hand step-by-step. I'm willing to take the task to do the wiki editing (I love wiki editing) but I can't do it with the tiny amount of knowledge I have.

Back to top |

leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |

We're not dead. We're just not spamtacular. There's also little-to-no drama to tune into for episodes, perhaps the most mature modding community of any id-based engine. We also don't have an attention-grabbing 'encounter' movie either. The IRC channel is where most of the activity is, though it's mostly offtopic activity. But it's where we're all hiding
_________________

Back to top |

Spirit Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 476 |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |

Quote:
I've been modding for Doom engines for a long time, and, unsatisfied with the lack of modding capabilities, I decided to try to learn Quake modding. (...) I guess that's just the way it is... Quake modding is very newbie-unfriendly and that's why I think it feels dead around here (and the other Quake-modding forums).

No idea how Doom modding works, but I think you nailed it just fine. Quake modding apparently is a bit more complex than Doom modding and thus you are frustrated?
_________________
Quake Maps

Back to top |

jim Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 400 Location: In The Sun |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |

I think both Doom and Quake modding are equally complicated. If you wanted to make some new attacks, monsters, weapons, items for Doom, you need to code them in just like in Quake, except you use some other scripting or need to touch the gameplay C code. Adding new sounds or graphics is quite the same in both. Doing new maps is pretty similar too.
While they're both quite similar, I'd like Quake have some better systems for adding some new stuff in that I've now noticed are quite mysterious on how to do that (thinking about the menu and hud stuff).
_________________
zbang!

Back to top |

Entar Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 422 Location: At my computer |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |

As for documentation... http://wiki.quakesrc.org for most Quake info http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces for DarkPlaces stuff and #darkplaces on irc.anynet.org is where a lot our Quake discussion takes place these days, if there's something you can't find elsewhere.
_________________
woh... feelin woozy... too much cider...
http://entar.quakedev.com
games fascination - My Game Development Blog/Journal

Back to top |

CocoT Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 599 Location: Belly-Gum |

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |

Quote:
Quake modding is very newbie-unfriendly

I don't really agree, here. I mean, yes, it's true some of the tutorials here are copy-paste tutorials (but, really, isn't that the case of all tutorials out there?), but then nothing prevents people to look closer and try to figure out what is going on (some tuts have pretty good comments, in fact). When I started modding, there was even fewer tutorials available, but I did not think this was a problem really. I guess I learnt a lot by going step by step through all the AI's cafe Tutorbot tutorials (http://minion.planetquake.gamespy.com/index3.html). And I've always found people here helpful. I mean, most of my questions have always found answers and, as Leilei said, there is always #qc if you really get stuck.
Now, as far as the slowdown in activities on this forum is concerned, it'd be difficult to deny the fact the place isn't really buzzing... I'm also a little concerned about this but, unless we manage to attract new members (like you), this is unlikely to change. Once again, though, if you're only a little patient, your post is unlikely to remain unanswered and if it seems so, you can also bump it
_________________
http://www.planetcocot.net/

Back to top |

Orion Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 414 Location: Brazil |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: |

Did you mean: Is the Quake modding community really this alive? Google about your question. _________________ There's no signature here. Stop looking for one.

Back to top |

Nash Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 95 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |

Orion - How about you Google about MenuQC or Client-Side QC and let me know if you find any results that actually teach you how to code stuff with said subjects? Please post the results here if you find any. Thanks.

Back to top |

Sajt Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1027 |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: |

There is no documentation for Client or Menu QC... Nobody knows anything about CSQC except maybe Spike. Nobody's working on implementing it engines much AFAIK. DarkPlaces has a CSQC implementation, but I'm not sure that it's actually useable. FTEQW probably has a working implementation but I don't know anything about it.
As for MenuQC, Black wrote that and isn't around much anymore, unless I'm mistaken. It's a beast, though I guess someone could write tutorials for it if they spend enough time browsing through it first...
_________________
F. A. Špork, an enlightened nobleman and a great patron of art, had a stately Baroque spa complex built on the banks of the River Labe.

Back to top |

ajay Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Swindon, UK |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |

I should be the poster boy for how friendly (both in terms of newbies and "users") the quake modding community/scene is, as I am as unskilled as I am lazy. I had (have) very little coding, mapping, modding experience or knowledge but have managed to drag out a number of mods. Yes it took time and effort, but isn't anything more worthwhile when it does?
Cosnidering it's over 10 years old, I think all is pretty alive and kicking, yes it may not be as large as other, newer games, but it's there, it's still developing and it's as imaginative as any.
_________________
my site

Back to top |

Nash Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 95 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |

It's ironic how Doom is a much, much older game than Quake but the mapping and modding community is much more alive. (including the drama)

Back to top |

Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |

Not sure if it's ironic, or what you'd like to call it, but certainly interesting, and it has been discussed in the past, how come Doom which is older and in many ways inferior (engine capabilities, modding friendlyness) has such a much more vibrant community. I personally don't find it that much of a "problem", cause I don't really do the community thing, I just use Quake as a base to make games. Admittedly, I hang a lot on the irc channels, this and another forum, but I guess that's mostly just old habit.
I've always agreed though, that Quake modding as a community is quite stale. Quake mapping is and always has been more alive, and the two for certain reasons rarely mix. I'd love to see information gathered to some central site, or atleast a good link database on an already live site, which has many users. Some have done attempts at starting new sites and communities, with hosting and everything, but those haven't really kicked off, more or less because the community already has its stale ways, they know where to get the info they want, and don't need a centralized source of info.
With that said, there are plenty of sources for info, but they're hard to find. QuakeTerminus is one place with lots of links to tools, hosting dead-but-useful tools, and links to sites containing info. You already mentioned the awesome yet very incomplete Quakesrc wiki. I3D is and always will be the place to post your questions, and there's a good deal of tutorials which aren't entirely copy-paste based. However, I learned most of my stuff from community members, as well as one site in particular, AI Cafe. Even though you might not be interested in AI, Coffee does some magic with his tutorials. Explains a lot about how QC works, and so forth.
What you want to do, if you want to make Quake mods, is follow links all over the place, and post questions, and hang on irc. It's tough, but possible.
When it comes to CSQC and MenuQC, it's no wonder you haven't found any info, considering there really is none, and only a select number of people know how it works. MenuQC I haven't bothered to dive into too deep, since I really didn't know where to start, and I most certainly don't recommend basing your code off Blacks Nexuiz menu, cause that thing is so bloated you have no idea. CSQC isn't that hard if you're only doing what Chris and Dresk are doing, which is more or less HUD drawing. Chris' mouse support in his new game isn't even CSQC, it's a prydoncursor builtin for DarkPlaces, which has world collisions disabled if it hits within inventory bounds (funky stuff, but it works). I've successfully made HUD's with CSQC, and it isn't that hard, as long as you have something to get ideas from or base it on. But once you want to do cooler stuff (what CSQC was initially meant for), like clientside entities, movement prediction, effects and whatnot, that's when it becomes severely tricky. In fact so tricky I more or less attacked everyone involved on irc, because I found the design completely retarded and over-complicated.
One can only hope that someone who has success on these areas will care enough to post info, tutorials, or release code for everyone to see.
Considering how good Quake is as a beginners engine, it's sad how hard it is to get beyond "omg I made the shotgun into a machinegun!".
_________________
Look out for Twigboy

Back to top |

jim Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 400 Location: In The Sun |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |

I think id Software should have made the hud and menu stuff with qc... as they're more gamelogic than some engine core stuff... Now quick someone make a time machine and a go back in time and call for Cthulhu (that's 783 40102 6101) to affect id Software's dreams in a way they're constantly suggested they'll make the hud and menu modifying available in qc...
People mod for Doom, because the mapping is so simple and you can make one map in a day...
_________________
zbang!

Back to top |

redrum Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 367 Location: Long Island, New York |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |

I'm new to QuakeC, first tried it this year. This site is very helpfull! I'm no wiz but I've learned a lot. You can't expect instant replies to your questions, and you can't expect answers to all of them. You learn a little bit each week, and you eventually get the jist of it.
In the beginning I had to ask questions about everything, now I notice I can get most of the stuff that I want to do done by myself.
_________________
Welcome to the Overlook Hotel 69.113.123.178:27500

Back to top |

leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |

jim wrote:
People mod for Doom, because the mapping is so simple and you can make one map in a day...

Or 32
_________________

Back to top |

Display posts from previous:

| Inside3d Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion | All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 1 of 4

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2004 phpBB Group