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Junrall Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 136 Location: North West Oregon, USA |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Cheaating Or Not Cheating |

OK, I've nearly finished my ricocheting spikes... which includes the occasional spike that sticks into a wall or door. I have enabled them to damage "self" after a ricochet. Between enabling damage to "self" and spikes that stick into walls, this has caused a cool effect... the ability to hop onto spikes. If you can get a series of spikes to stick into a wall you can literally climb up the wall and possibly get to higher places.
My question is how many of you think that this is a potential cheat? And if so, what are some examples?
Keep in mind that the spikes that stick into the wall will fall out after a random amount of time... the longest being about 10 seconds.
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Urre Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Sweden |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |

Seeing as it's your mod, it's up to you to decide wether or not it's cheating. If so, just make them nonsolid. It's not uncommon for players to figure out "cheats" in games which later become standard behavior, a classic example being the rocketjump.
I'd personally call it a bit odd to be able to climb up the wall on spikes, especially considering them sticking to the wall is random rather than consistent, and their lifetime being random as well. If you made them long spears, and removed this randomness, then maybe. But that's just me
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Chip Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Posts: 314 Location: Romania |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cheaating Or Not Cheating |

Junrall wrote:
OK, I've nearly finished my ricocheting spikes... which includes the occasional spike that sticks into a wall or door. I have enabled them to damage "self" after a ricochet. Between enabling damage to "self" and spikes that stick into walls, this has caused a cool effect... the ability to hop onto spikes. If you can get a series of spikes to stick into a wall you can literally climb up the wall and possibly get to higher places.
My question is how many of you think that this is a potential cheat? And if so, what are some examples?
Keep in mind that the spikes that stick into the wall will fall out after a random amount of time... the longest being about 10 seconds.

Hehe, you could create some "Tomb Raider-ish" scenarios with some high places to reach and only a spike gun.
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Junrall Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 136 Location: North West Oregon, USA |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |

Haha... I never thought about the oddness of climbing on spikes! And as Chip suggested... perhaps a special type of spike-gun... one that shoots larger spikes... like the ones found in telephone poles. Or something similar to Half-life's crossbow that shoots rebar.
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leileilol Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 1321 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |

Witchaven did it with arrows then again, witchaven is something stupid a bunch of 40 year old usenet lurkers try to cash in on crazes _________________

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mh Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 909 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |

I think it sounds neat. It's an interesting tactical decision - use your ammo to either climb a wall to a new area or to kill the enemy around the corner. Of course it's not cheating; you're the mod author so you define what's legal or not in your mod.
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metlslime Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 177 |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |

I used sawblades to climb walls in half-life 2. In fact this may have been an official puzzle at one point in the game...

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jim Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 400 Location: In The Sun |

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |

Deus Ex has similar thing with grenades that are attached to the walls... I think it would be nice idea to have an item with the only purpose to climb up walls.. Place them, jump up to them and collect the lowest ones, so you can use them again...
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Wazat Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 732 Location: Middle 'o the desert, USA |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: |

I glue pigeons to the wall to reach the roof of my house. It seems perfectly natural to do that in a game. But don't do it in real life, seriously. It attracts cats. _________________ When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.

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Junrall Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 136 Location: North West Oregon, USA |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |

Wazat wrote:
I glue pigeons to the wall to reach the roof of my house. It seems perfectly natural to do that in a game. But don't do it in real life, seriously. It attracts cats.

Lol!
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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Cheaating Or Not Cheating |

Junrall wrote:
OK, I've nearly finished my ricocheting spikes... which includes the occasional spike that sticks into a wall or door. I have enabled them to damage "self" after a ricochet. Between enabling damage to "self" and spikes that stick into walls, this has caused a cool effect... the ability to hop onto spikes. If you can get a series of spikes to stick into a wall you can literally climb up the wall and possibly get to higher places.
My question is how many of you think that this is a potential cheat? And if so, what are some examples?
Keep in mind that the spikes that stick into the wall will fall out after a random amount of time... the longest being about 10 seconds.

If all players have access to that, it can't be cheating, because is fair.. is available for all.
Cheating, in theory, could be putting nonsolid walls to hide areas with powerups in a color only colorblind people will see ( these damn colorblind people!)
Or putting in the code something like if ( self.nickname == "Junrall" ) damage *= 0.5; to get a adventage to yourself.
In practice, you can't put unfairness on a mod. Since what you put in the mod is available for all.
But thats based on my definition on cheating, your def could be other

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frag.machine Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 728 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |

@Teiman: I suppose Junrall is talking about breaking the expected flow in some maps, not exactly cheating. This question has a very similar answer to that ajay made about changing zombies behavior in his mod: as long you're playing in maps made with these facts in account (and it's something available to everyone) I don't see any problem on that. Actually, new gameplay is always refreshing and welcome.
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jim Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 400 Location: In The Sun |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |

If you're afraid that someone could skip part of your singleplayer level by climbing up some wall.. make it so that to be able to exit the level, you need to collect all the keycards, etc. So even if some one takes an alternative route, he'll have to go get the card.
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Teiman Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 309 |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |

Maybe the real problem here is not "cheating" but "content skipping". There are games where jumping is disabled, to force players experience the maps in a linear way. Something akind to that. And yes, "user made stairs" can be abused on most maps to avoid the mapper design and "content skip".

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Spike Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 944 Location: UK |

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |

is it any worse than rocket jumps? _________________ What's a signature?

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