Func_Msgboard: Real Oneway Glass In Quake ... It's Possible, But How?

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|  | Real Oneway Glass In Quake ... It's Possible, But How?

Posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 02:05:21

I've been looking around for how to make one-way glass in way. I am aware of 2 or 3 "wrong" methods.
The correct method is employed in the map ID3
ftp://ftp.runecentral.com/quake/ma...
In the map ID3, there is an observation area below the DM6 red armor area. You can see everything above it, but shoot a rocket at it and it explodes on contact but from above you can't even see that area.
(Of course this is the "best" glass we have in Quake).
Away, I can't find any info on how to make this type of glass.
Anyone know? Is there a certain color in the palette that is 100% transparent and you paint that face of the wall with it?

Glass
#1 posted by Method [195.194.204.251] on 2005/09/19 02:25:49
I didnt know about that way, nor do i know the answer to your question. but i found out you can make a "Glass" effect by making a brush as thin as you can and then texturing that brush with the "teleport" texture (you know the black with the white circles that move about). and tie a func_wall entity to it. now look at it in the game. It only works on some engines tho.
Skip Texture
#2 posted by Preach [86.129.212.220] on 2005/09/19 03:45:28
I expect this is done using the skip texture utility. You can get this from http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/... It's an extra executable to run on your map after bsp, which will check all the faces to see if they have the texture "skip". Any surface that has this texture will be removed from the visible hull(but still clips rockets etc). How you'd achieve the effect in that map is to make a func_wall for the one way glass, and texture the bottom face with skip.
This may not be the only way to do this, but I'm pretty sure it'll do what you want.
Arrgh, Broke The Link
#3 posted by Preach [86.129.212.220] on 2005/09/19 03:46:22
There's an extra period that doesn't belong, the link is http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/...
I Kept Trying The Skip Texture And It Didn't Work
#4 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 04:31:08
... so you have kept me from going insane.
There is no func_wall in the id3 map, I did a text dump. It does have a func_plat in it and ID3 is a Rocket Arena'ized DM6 clone, but the Tyrann utility doesn't say it has to be an entity ....
The mod Starship has a forcefield in it -- an animated yellow pixelated particle haze. I might see if I can find the QuakeC that does that. It appears to be the same as that which appears in the Chthon death scene on E1M7 which also doubles as the radiation rune effect/spawn shields in Rune Quake.
Refs
#5 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 04:33:25
Starship singleplayer map/mod
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
Rune Quake Source
ftp://ftp.runecentral.com/quake/ru...
Umm
#6 posted by Kinn [81.130.212.78] on 2005/09/19 04:56:25
I haven't looked at the map in question, but i'm pretty sure if you are standing inside a func_illusionary, you can see out, but no-one can see in.
Also
#7 posted by Kinn [81.130.212.78] on 2005/09/19 04:57:37
this probably should have been posted in mapping help.
Skip
#8 posted by negke [85.176.89.151] on 2005/09/19 05:10:36
the 'window' in id3 is a shootable trigger_multiple with a high "wait" value. this isn't a good solution, as each window will bleed the first time it is shot at.
the func_wall with skip texture trick is much better, although using the skip removal tool mentioned above will lead to the "one texture is missing from the bsp file" warning when the map is loaded.
there are compilers out there that support the skip texture in a 'clean' way, but i have no example at hand at the the moment.
(note that skip windows are transparent to the player, but monsters cannot see through them!)
Skip Test ... No Funcs
#9 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/19 05:36:48
Didn't use func_wall, shoot it and it doesn't bleed it just impacts.
http://s91840528.onlinehome.us/ski...
It'd be nice if that were built into a qbsp'ish utility, I can't see anyone using a texture named skip without the intended effect.
Now I need to figure out how to make it look enough like a window is there that isn't doubt to whether it is empty space or something solid without resorting to something only GLQuake supports. maybe some sort of mild pixelated stuff in the middle or a crack or a cheapy fake "shine".
(func_illusionary, don't see that in too many maps. It'd be nice for elements that are scenery that you don't want to interfere with movement).
Oh
#10 posted by negke [85.176.89.151] on 2005/09/19 06:16:35
you're right. there is no warning message with tyrann's tool. i must have confused it with some other program...
making the window a func_wall allows you to killtarget it if necessary and it also doesn't interfere with the lighting.
Skip Method And Func_wall
#11 posted by Preach [86.129.212.220] on 2005/09/19 06:35:13
If you go for using the skip texture in an actual map you'll still want to use a func_wall for the glass. This is because even though you can see through the removed face, vis cannot. If you build the window as a regular world brush, once you vis the map the parts of the map on the other side of the glass will not be drawn, and you'll get a HOM effect instead. Func_wall never blocks visibility so it'll work fine. It'll also make the inside edges of the window frame much easier to make, as they won't get clipped off.
As for a visual indication, the best visual indicator for glass in quake I've seen is in efdm9, which is certainly still around somewhere if you don't own a copy already. The windows in the map have 'decals' on them, marking the surface of the glass nicely. You could replace this effect with very thin white brushes to look like cracks, but the decals are nice and clean, a more stylish alternative in my opinion
Forcefield In Starship Map
#12 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 00:59:02
Nice effect, just like a wall.
It is QuakeC though, and I cannot seem to track it down.
http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/im...
Hipnotic Had One Like That
#13 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/09/20 09:37:13
Surely that source is released?
It's From Hipnotic ...
#14 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 13:38:01
Heh, I figured that out last night ...
I decompiled the QuakeC using deacc32.exe and looked through the source and all the functions had "hip" in them.
DeAcc32
http://www.ftp-sunet-se.lkams.kern...
Eventually, I came across a sample tutorial file on how to use the particle field from Hipnotic:
http://asp.planetquake.com/dl/dl.a...
and the official devkit page for Hipnotic:
http://www.ritual.com/scourge/file...
Small Concern...
#15 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/09/20 17:05:48
I crunched your id3.bsp to a map and it must be a trigger_multiple with a wait function -1
Take a look at the id3.map and see yourself.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/glass...
Mysteries In Sweden, Norway
#16 posted by Mr John [217.211.249.17] on 2006/06/08 04:39:41
Mysteries in Sweden, Norway - dinosaur and human tracks - info and pictures in website...
-> http://www.geocities.com/human_tra...
-> http://www.geocities.com/genesis8a...
-> http://www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/
Oh Wow You Made My Head Explode
#17 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/06/08 05:00:08
A human footprint? Actually a shoeprint? This is proof that prehistoric humans wore velcro fastened no-brand sneakers?
Oh crap no I read on and it's an angel? Holy!
Wow, dude. You caught my attention!
Woah
#18 posted by Spirit [80.171.20.103] on 2006/06/08 05:05:28
Let me help on your scientific project. Look what I found:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204...
It's mammoth poo! Praise the lord that those beasts are extinct!
Czg
#19 posted by Kinn [195.92.144.188] on 2006/06/08 05:10:56
what's your beef man? I thought everyone turned to Geocities for the latest announcements in scientific discovery.
(metlslime: do we have a "retarded" icon yet?)
Those Prints Side By Side
#20 posted by HeadThump [65.140.53.91] on 2006/06/08 12:09:39
suggest an early society where man and dinosaur treated one another as equals with a shared sense of purpose, or it could mean that there was a form of bestiality too horrendous to contemplate.
Lies
#21 posted by starbuck [86.132.6.19] on 2006/06/08 18:54:46
i've often contemplated such a thing. Maybe one day science can bring us back the Pterodactyl and the Triceratops, and I can give them a good shagging.
#22 posted by Zop [72.132.147.39] on 2006/06/09 22:34:43
There is a normal clip texture in the standard levels. I assume you use that on just one side of the wall.
Not Quite...
#23 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/06/10 01:02:58
brushes need to be entirely clip or not at all.
previous comments in this thread pretty much answered this. Not sure why this Noah's Ark spam resurrected the thread so successfully.
Because We Are All Born To Fallow
#24 posted by HeadThump [65.140.53.4] on 2006/06/10 10:05:16
and need someone strong to guide us.
Sorry For This....
#25 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/09/22 23:46:02
I decided to resurrect this thread following the discussion started in Base Pack thread these last days. There plenty of informations in the previous posts, but things are not really clear on the method to use for glass creation. So, as it doen's work well as described by than in Base Pack thread, is there somebody already experimented Tyrann's remove_skip tool, and did the results were what has been expected ?
Well...
#26 posted by metlslime [69.181.42.13] on 2006/09/22 23:48:28
if you want what baker was asking for, just use a func_wall with a skip texture on one side. I think that's different from what than is doing.
Remove Skip
#27 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/09/24 17:39:20
is already causing me problems with my basepack map. I have some shots I will upload later (in the basepack thread) that all were taken with novis 1 to avoid showing up unsightly errors.
I will do a short tutorial on it in the near future.
Than
#28 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/09/25 00:14:15
Please do... quickly... ;)
Where To Get Skippy
#29 posted by efdat [134.169.158.17] on 2006/09/28 05:54:06
you can find tyrann's skip tool at
http://disenchant.net/files/temp/s...
glass rocks!
Than
#30 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/10/01 08:10:57
Thanks a lot for your tutorial, and about the map examples... Nice and interesting !!! I just jave a small comments: the 2examples are water/air based... Would it be possible you will give an air/air example ?
I tried to make a air/air glass in map current map, following the same method, replacing water by nothing.. (i.e "air") but unfortunately the results is completly unexpected and crappy (ingame you are either stucked or map leaks, and you have thousands HOMs everywhere..)
HOMs
#31 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/10/01 21:12:26
I have them all over the place in my map, but I know it has worked OK because enabling r_novis 1 gets rid of them. I'm holding out hoping that Tyrann will release a new version of skippy. He told me it is planned, but I think he is pretty busy with other stuff atm so I've know idea if he will do it before christmas or some other time. Fingers crossed.
I didn't have problems with air/air glass, by the way, only air/water.
Than, Other People:
#32 posted by metlslime [69.181.0.109] on 2006/10/01 23:59:56
have you verified that the HOMs are not there when you don't run skippy?
Metlslime
#33 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/10/02 00:26:19
No I don't get any HOM with normal process (QBSP + VIS + LIGHT) Including skip run (QBSP + SKIP + VIS + LIGHT), ingame the map is HOM'ish as hell :(
Yes, It's Because Of Skip
#34 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/10/02 03:48:15
I thought I mentioned that it is likely to cause problems earlier. Maybe I didn't :)
I tried using different compilers, reordering the compile process (makes some difference, and seemed to fix it last time I tried, but the problems just came back) etc. but to no avail.
Anyway, I tend not to have too many problems if skip is used in just a few places and only on bmodels. If I stick skip on the world then problems start occuring. The probability of problems happening also seems to increase with map complexity, number of portals etc. I had no problems to begin with when working on my map, but they slowly crept in, and are very evident when I do a full vis. However, it's a bit late to change things drastically now, so I am ignoring it and crossing my fingers that Tyrann will do some work on his compilers that includes skip ;)
If he doesn't then I'll have to do some work myself and I guess some of the cooler things in the map will have to go. Others I can replace with the trigger trick though :)
*the trigger trick is mentioned in my glass tutorial I think.
So...
#35 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/10/02 04:11:52
.. at the moment Tyrann's skip tool is buggy... I was aware of that point, it is even mentionned in v0.0 readme text file.
But actually I am very surprised of the result ingame (at least with my map.... I was thinking the skip bug, mentionned by Tyrann, would have generated some weird effects (i.e HOMs, leaks, etc..) were the skip texture is located, but not everywhere in the map...
Well, we have to seriously ask Tyrann to improve this cool stuff :) ... quickly :P
If You Are Mapping For Quoth...
#36 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/10/02 20:42:58
then you can probably use this entity in place of skip covered func_wall: http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/...
It also has the advantage of being toggleable.
However, you will still run into problems if you plan on doing the same stuff with water and glass that I am doing. Otherwise, for glass air/air it is perfectly suitable and you won't ever have to use skip again.
Than
#37 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/10/02 23:03:55
Thanks for the infos, I'll check it out, while I'm not mapping for Quoth (shame on me... I know ...) Anyway, I can avoid glasses use in my current map, even if it would have been a nice goodies there...
In anyway, Tyrann must work on his skip tool now to make it bug free... :P.. ASAP I would say :D

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