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|  | New Q1SP Mission - Travail

Posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/07/10 04:32:48

Let us start you on a journey...a Quake Journey. Share the Travail!
* 1 new Quake mission
* 2 new episodes and a triple barrel finale
* A 2 level secret mini mission
* 15 single player levels and 3 multiplayer levels
* 2 new bosses, stock and modified after market enemies, one beloved weapon mod, and some new physics
* 4 Easter Eggs, 30+ secrets, countless references to the game and the community
Info, screens and download links at http://www.quakeone.com/travail

First Post!
#1 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/10 08:45:46
i'm in on that shit!
W00t !
#2 posted by Sielwolf [84.130.190.114] on 2007/07/10 10:44:00
Great to see this released >:D
#3 posted by [87.249.61.2] on 2007/07/10 11:06:44
"play is disappointing so far, combat is cramped and pretty tedious. I really like the mapping ideas, though"
Btw
#4 posted by negke [82.82.177.176] on 2007/07/10 12:18:23
Concerning the soundtrack and criticism about its use of Quake sounds: I found them to be quite nice actually, as they added to the atmosphere in my view. Suddenly hearing the drone of a machine, the beeping of a computer terminal or the breath of an enforcer in an ancient temple or cavern gave me the impression that Azoth's forces were constantly around, hiding somewhere near. I liked that.
Probably A Dumb Question
#5 posted by nitin [203.214.62.243] on 2007/07/10 13:00:09
where do I put the soundtrack?
#6 posted by sassa [85.225.115.128] on 2007/07/10 13:28:38
cool, I need to try this out
\o/
#7 posted by Spirit [213.39.156.215] on 2007/07/10 13:44:23
#3, quote? what? huh?
nitin: Burn it on CD. Or if you are using Darkplaces (I really don't recommend it here) you can transcode the files to ogg and put them into travail/sound/cdtracks/track002.og... etc.
I'm off for secret and easter egg search. Didn't even know there were easter eggs. :>
Stupid Question For Sure But...
#8 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/10 14:02:44
... what are you referring to when you are talking about Easter Eggs ? I'm not sure to understand... :P
Bugger
#9 posted by nitin [203.214.62.243] on 2007/07/10 14:05:50
my sound card (well I think its my sound card) has problems playing quake with cd music. I was hoping mp3 files would suffice.
JPL
#10 posted by Vigil [91.152.72.143] on 2007/07/10 14:49:10
Easter eggs are messages or features hidden by the developers, like the Dopefish in Quake, or the cow level in Diablo 2.
Vigil
#11 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/10 14:56:09
Thanks ! I was not sure about its signification ;)
Soundtrack
#12 posted by negke [82.83.49.0] on 2007/07/10 18:21:39
It's also possible to mount the mp3 files as a virtual cd drive of course.
#13 posted by sassa [85.225.115.128] on 2007/07/10 18:38:43
I put the news on www.quakeworld.nu !
Feedback
#14 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/10 21:50:24
it's possible to short-circuit (heh pope) some routes, so if things stop making sense... don't be afraid to noclip back to where you came from!
Congrats
#15 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.91] on 2007/07/10 22:37:01
been looking forward to this for a long time.
Rest assured a review will appear at my site. Given the current review backlog and my laziness, the review may take a while to appear. :P
Awesome !
#16 posted by Barnak [70.55.83.224] on 2007/07/10 22:55:02
I played the first episode, while cheating a lot. This level was longer to do than watching a full movie ! Some maps are trully AWESOME ! On some map (can't tell which), I made it in the reverse way after a rocket jump. I was lost and unable to finish that map without cheating.
I didn't made the second episode yet.
The music is very nice. Gives LOTS of atmosphere to the maps. Very well done !
Geez ! I can't believe how this old game isn't dead yet ! :-)
Long live Quake !
Negke
#17 posted by nitin [203.214.62.243] on 2007/07/11 00:38:26
yeah I know, but that doesnt help either :(
Load Saved Games
#18 posted by whimp [219.88.83.11] on 2007/07/11 01:54:30
I use FitzQ and when i load a saved game it crashes. "ED_ParseEntity: Closing brace without data" is the text. Any ideas?
Which Map Does It Happen On?
#19 posted by Preach [86.146.19.16] on 2007/07/11 01:57:17
It should be resolvable, possibly even by editing the sav file for now. Can't say I've encountered it myself though...
Saved Games
#20 posted by whimp [219.88.83.15] on 2007/07/11 04:51:00
Peideracero or sumtin..
Made It All
#21 posted by Barnak [70.55.80.116] on 2007/07/11 08:45:43
I just finished all three episodes. Okay, I admit I cheated all the way.
But man, this pack ROCKS !
I love it all. First brand quality stuff ! This is now another jewel in my permanent Quake collection. What a pack !
Cheers !
Whimp
#22 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.42] on 2007/07/11 11:00:29
Can you upload the zipped savegame somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it.
Negike
#23 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/11 11:54:48
what the FUCK with those secrets
you're killing me ;/
Hmm
#24 posted by nitin [203.214.73.32] on 2007/07/12 12:44:30
first 2 maps are very cramped and sticky combat wise. Mapping is good but I'm not a huge fan of this style.
Looking forward to the rest though. And what textures are used for qtdm2?
And I Was Going To Say
#25 posted by nitin [203.214.73.32] on 2007/07/12 12:53:56
that the first 2 maps reminded me one of scragbit's maps in style, then saw the readme and saw that it's his episode. Duh.
Whimp Savegame
#26 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.196] on 2007/07/12 15:12:36
issue seems to be caused by having an EOF character in the player name, thus the failed loading. Most engines have issues with this, so it's recommended to avoid weird player names when saving in single player.
Roll On The Weekend
#27 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/07/12 17:39:32
When I can play the pack all together along with the music emulated via daemon.
I don't want to play 5 minutes at a time . . .
But I took a look, and it looks good.
Can't find that damn NM entrance though ;)
Played Through It
#28 posted by Orl [151.204.7.162] on 2007/07/12 18:40:54
Definitely enjoyed it. The first episode seemed more like a piece of artwork than a level. The brushwork is very detailed, but most of the time its cramped, and I got stuck a few times. But visually, top notch.
The second episode was much better, More open space, better design, and gameplay wise. Very enjoyable.
Overall this is a great pack with hours of entertainment. Download it now.
Although...
#29 posted by Orl [151.204.7.162] on 2007/07/12 18:51:33
Why is cl_bob always set to 0? I prefer to see the bobbing of my weapon when I move around.
I hate it when mods screw around with my config...
Orl
#30 posted by negke [82.83.60.187] on 2007/07/12 19:17:01
So do I. However, in this case something else is to blame.
Neg|ke
#31 posted by Orl [151.204.7.162] on 2007/07/12 19:30:01
Whats to blame? The people who made Travail? Satan?
#32 posted by negke [82.83.60.187] on 2007/07/12 19:33:09
The mod doesn't change the config.
Well Then...
#33 posted by Orl [151.204.7.162] on 2007/07/12 20:09:08
...if its possible, how do I get it to stop changing cl_bob to 0?
#34 posted by negke [82.83.60.187] on 2007/07/12 20:28:49
Put cl_bob 1 in the autoexec.cfg
Neg|ke
#35 posted by Orl [151.204.7.162] on 2007/07/12 20:38:15
cl_bob 0.02 is, and always has been in my autoexec.cfg. Travail seems to ignore and change it to 0 everytime.
Cl_bob
#36 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.162] on 2007/07/12 23:44:33
It looks like demo1.dem in Travail sets cl_bob 0. To prevent this, you can e.g. add +map start to the cmd line and then make sure not to run demo1 in-game.
Interesting...
#37 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/13 00:56:26
this seems like a candidate for "engine bug." Probably, settings stored in a demo should not persist after the demo stops playing.
Ijed...
#38 posted by the silent [84.223.133.195] on 2007/07/13 01:28:25
...could you please explain what is and how to play "music emulated via daemon". I suspect it's something pretty obvious, but, still, I never heard of it... Thanks!!!
Stuffcmd
#39 posted by Preach [81.152.232.130] on 2007/07/13 02:33:26
It might be that there's a stuffcmd doing that in the demo, it's supported in the spec so that you get the bf commands when someone picks up a weapon etc. I imagine if the demo was edited with one of the SDA tools or similar, it'd be common practice to put that kind of command at the start of the demo by default, to ensure a smooth playback.
Finished It
#40 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/13 02:58:45
Definitely liked it, was epic and entertaining. The dm2 area was awesome :D
Aye...
#41 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/07/13 06:59:09
Barnak: long live Quake indeed
nitin: you have a good eye, as far as the textures for dm2 there's at least six distinct sources...some from metlslime, kell, DKT etc. I worked hard to get a coherent feel in the set.
Orl/Preach et al: yeah, that demo1 was edited initially with SDA tools. We live and learn :)
inertia: first one to comment on the dm2ish area, hehe glad you liked it!
Demos Changing Cvars
#42 posted by negke [82.82.162.201] on 2007/07/13 10:17:14
Quake's endless mysteries. This game just never stops to bring up new stuff to confuse people. What's next?
I'm To Blame
#43 posted by Baker [67.149.220.91] on 2007/07/13 10:26:43
I added cl_bob 0 to the demo BizarroSouless made with a demo editor tool because I couldn't stand the bobbing (I thought he played with bobbing on while recording the demo and "corrected" that, a mistake I wouldn't make today).
Distrans
#44 posted by nitin [203.214.73.32] on 2007/07/13 12:28:01
the brick texture is the one I was talking about. It looks great.
ok, intended to play a bit more last night, ended up playing the whole pack (well I'm up to the boss levels which I saved for the weekend). Its great stuff overall, I loved it.
Scragbait's later levels are awesome, I loved the evil feel in the last two, in fact atmosphere is the name of the game here, the pack is full of it and I was very happy with that aspect.
Distrans, your level set is A+ material, loved the combat and loved the look. There were quite a few spots I stopped and just admired the exquisite combination of brushwork and texturing.
Noticed the dm2 section too, nice touch. the new mosters were quite ood and very well integrated. The cave section with the spiders was a real highlight for me, that was as tense as anything I've played in quite some time.
great effort both of you, I just wish I could appreciate the music too, maybe time to get a new soundcard :)
Nice Work Chaps
#45 posted by dogToffee [81.152.73.246] on 2007/07/13 12:46:36
I've been lurking & stalking you lot since the Qmap days, about time I made a comment :/
Seems this pack is a worthy reason.
I had problems with Fitz. When starting the screen was just black. I could hear the demo rolling but bugger all vision :/
An old infrequent problem arose again when I alt-tabbed. When coming back to the game I get half a screen ?! the top half just black. I don't think this is a Travail issue as it's happened before on a diff machine with diff maps. A Fitz complaint ? (using 080 btw).
I reverted to Joequake, not my first choice for SP quake but it ran fine :)
I played on hard, I couldn't be arsed to find the Nightmare tele, (I always try to) was there one ? or was it something to do with fragging the Smablah at the start ?
The main reason I felt the urge to comment was in fact the DM2 area. Heh, very nice :)
After walking in to the 'main' room and seeing the bars either side, the steps either side as well... 'hang on a minute... this seems familiar, ahh they just copied that bit and... ahh I see.. ' Good stuff :o)
Another nice touch was the spider bites. Nicely done I thought. Although the damn things give me the creeps, the main start of that map drastically cut my FPS.
The 'teleporting towards you Smablahs' was a nice trick too. You run forward and shit! in your face fat bloke!
Never really been a huge fan of end of level bosses, (nice knickers btw) and I went God for the last half of the ruck :(
With the odd noclip and a few confused issues with bearings, overall this was a fun pack.
Off for another go.
Thanks guys. :o)
Sir H
GPL Material
#46 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.68] on 2007/07/13 14:16:24
I guess this should have been obvious. You used snippets of DM2 which is under the GPL. You even hinted at it in the readme file.
Straight from the GPL:
----------------------
2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:
a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.
b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.
(...)
These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License
(...)
!!!
^^ This means that Travail in its current form must be licensed under the GPL. ^^
!!!
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code
(...)
!!!
^^ It should be very clear what this means. You should update the Travail distribution to include the required license note, mark the map to be based on DM2, and either include the complete Travail map sources or a written offer to provide them.
!!!
Why don't people ever read the damn thing?
Golden_Boy
#47 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/13 14:20:55
... because it is too long...
JPL
#48 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.68] on 2007/07/13 14:23:33
Did I get this right, you want to use the content, but the license is "too long" for you?!
I'm
#49 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.105] on 2007/07/13 14:43:36
not trying to be an asshole here, but this excerpt from Travail's readme
"You may distribute this archive, without modifying its contents, via the internet or BBS systems. Apart from that, you may play it...that's all"
is - to put it mildly - ridiculous if you consider those "contents" contain GPL licensed material.
:/
Golden_boy
#50 posted by negke [82.82.175.231] on 2007/07/13 14:56:59
No. The DM2 snippet was not taken from the released id maps, but rebuilt from scratch.
Same
#51 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.105] on 2007/07/13 15:11:09
It's clearly derived from it.
"any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is _derived_ from the Program or any part thereof"
This is clearly the case, it's even admitted.
And in the Travail readme, there's this:
"Some of the stuff used herein is available via GPL, go forth and seek it out"
which in and of itself is a GPL violation because if you include GPL licensed "stuff" in your work (which the readme clearly admits) then the whole work must again be GPL licensed.
Nothing can just be "available" under the GPL; it is _licensed_ under the GPL and that automatically has the implications listed above.
:-/
Golden_boy
#52 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/13 15:12:08
Calm down please... I was joking about the fact it take too much time to read the full license agreement.. I guess everybody does the same as me: accept without reading... don't be nervous, it was not against you at all ;)
JPL
#53 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.105] on 2007/07/13 15:19:57
No offense taken.
Golden_boy
#54 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/13 15:22:17
So it's fine... ;)
GPL
#55 posted by Preach [81.152.232.130] on 2007/07/13 15:35:42
Just because it contains GPL content doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing has to be GPL. There is a distinction between "this mod includes content available under GPL" and "this mod includes content licenced under GPL". For instance, I could make a map, release the source under GPL, and also give permission for the map to be used in a pack under different terms. Then the pack would not need to be GPL, because at no point has the licence been invoked. A another example would be deathmatch classic, that horrible half-life mod. Even though the maps that are included(of which DM2 happens to be one...) are now GPL, valve doesn't have to make half-life, or even just DMC, a GPL product, because they already licenced such content when they bought the quake source.
Secondly, the dm2 parts are derived from the map, rather than the source. Derived is a tricky word, but there's a clear case here to be made that it would not have been necessary to see the source of the map to create what was in this level. If this is the case then the GPL is not violated just by building such a map, in the same way that none of the quake 3 remakes of quake 1 deathmatch maps suddenly became GPL when the sources were released.
There is of course the side issue of whether copying the layout/brushwork of a map just by eye is a violation of copyright, but that would be separate to any GPL considerations.
I'd like to add finally that I don't personally know which bits of the mod the comment you quoted refers to, you may be right that the mod does violate GPL if alternative permissions weren't sought. However, your claims above aren't right, so maybe it'd be best to follow up these things in private with the team
Is Not GPL Material
#56 posted by Baker [71.72.116.168] on 2007/07/13 16:46:47
The DM map sources have been available FOR ages! At least 8 years.
ftp://ftp.mancubus.net/pub/idgames...
This is why there have been rocket arena maps like id3.bsp, DM maps that are variations of the originals like the TDM (e4m3t3m, etc.) series since the 1990's and that map that was every DM map called death32c.bsp
Who Gives A Shit?
#57 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/07/13 17:50:10
Seriously - I doubt anyone is going to be sued for this infraction (weather it exists or not).
More comments on the mod's gameplay / aesthetics.
GPL Certainly Doesn't
#58 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.234] on 2007/07/13 17:53:48
Override the 'fair usage' doctrine of the law either, where snippets, quotes and short imitations of works are used in artistic, sometimes parodying manners. Unfortunately a lot of those who write up licensing contracts are ignorant of what would actually stand up in a court of law.
Unfortunately, given the abuse of fair usage doctrine in those clauses you cite, the GPL as it stands is likely to prove useless in the long run for the purpose of an enforceable contract.
Last I'll Comment On The Subject
#59 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.234] on 2007/07/13 18:02:04
as Ijed is right that it destracts from the pack.
I see GPL matters get argued in many forums where a ton of clauses from the license are cited, but the citation of those clauses are only relevant to the degree that they are in accord with this:
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/9...
subsection
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38
And yes, it is backed by international agreements that gives it standing in most natiomns where funcsters reside.
Kicks Arse
#60 posted by Eisenfresser [87.168.96.241] on 2007/07/13 18:14:55
really.
like it. the new physics with the monsters are a bit weird first, but go well after a while.
Level-Design is different, but very clever and Entertaining.
Havent been able to find all the secrets of the first episode yet, but still working on it.
Nice one !
OK.
#61 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.245] on 2007/07/13 23:42:56
I don't want any personal feuds about this. I was just saying.
I really just want people to think about the GPL because it is the basis of free software, and of Quake. If you use Quake, the GPL affects you.
I myself am known to act up against "idiotic" rules often. However, the GPL is actually a GOOD rule. The FSF are the good guys, so it's a bit stupid to bash the GPL of all things. The GPL gave us the Quake source, the tools source and the map sources.
Maybe there are juristic ways to pull your head out of the noose where the GPL is concerned. The question is, why let it come to that?
It would simply be _wise_ to release your map under the GPL wherever you "cite" or "reference" any GPL maps (ahem.) Not to mention that it's also _cool_.
It's sad that many ppl are so quick to bash the GPL and the FSF. I think those people are confusing the good and the bad guys.
The good guys, i.e. the Free Software movement with their GPL, need your help, not your ignorance. This is a political thing. You may get away with just taking what you want (by using the loopholes several of you pointed out above), but that doesn't mean it is wise to do so. And you know damn well I have a point here.
Since the majority here is unlikely to even grasp the problem (and just wants me to shut up now), I'll close the case.
golden_boy.
"the Majority Here Is Unlikely To Even Grasp The Problem"
#62 posted by pjw [66.168.26.186] on 2007/07/14 02:05:17
Yeah, we're generally pretty dim around here. You might try using smaller words, or typing more slowly.
Finished Now
#63 posted by nitin [203.214.73.32] on 2007/07/14 05:56:29
cant say I was overly enamoured with the final boss combat, but the mapping in the boss levels was still great.
also cheated to negke's levels using the map command because I couldnt find the entrance. Great maps both, really do deserve to be played and not just stumbled upon as a secret. The cave level is brilliant.
Woot
#64 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.248] on 2007/07/14 11:57:46
Hello Travail:
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/da...
Made some happy 80 Gigabyte traffic so far. That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip (only "330" for the soundtrack though). So, who says there is no interest in Quake Singleplayer nowadays?
#65 posted by ijed [201.222.202.241] on 2007/07/14 17:43:41
Thats Good.
Reckon the interest in this archaic game will take a long time to die; consumers don't want to spend $400 on a graphics card every six months.
Plus its one of the best games of all time.
First impressions on the pack:
Nicely detailed, but some clip brushes would have helped here and there - I haven't got stuck but I'm wary of the possibility. I prefer to be killed by dangerous things.
There's a nice sense of exploration; it feels like you're really moving through this alien landscape, and not just playing a map. Sometimes this confuses the progression, but nothing more than twenty seconds of legging about.
It would have been nice to have some more meaty weapons earlier on. It didn't stop the flow but I prefer more hardcore slaughter. A GL before the SSG / NG wouldn't have disrupted progression much and would have made some entertaining gib fountains from the grunts and funny player-suicides in the occassional compact spaces.
Played through engineer of destruction so far.
#66 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/14 18:06:36
That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip (only "330" for the soundtrack though). So, who says there is no interest in Quake Singleplayer nowadays?
nice! how many sites did the link get posted on? and what were they.. for future reference :p
Pack Comments
#67 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/14 18:36:41
quite ok overall.. although it had its share of good & bad moments.
the first episode i found particularly frustrating gameplay wise. there were quite a few situations where combats would be badly set up, or the player not given sufficient cover or movement space. in terms of design, the outdoor areas were excellent (including the caverns in maps 4 & 5) but some of the indoor sections felt a little pokey & fiddly. the texturing in the first three maps felt a little dull & slightly outdated too, especially compared with the rest of the pack
episode 2 i enjoyed ALOT more.. it was tough, but rarely in a frustrating way, since the combats felt like they were engineered better & player movement wasn't so restricted. i particularly loved the first map.. superb theme, solid, sturdy designs, and as mentioned by nitin the spider section was excellent & proved very tense. there was one point in map 2 where i had to cheat (got the SK, turned left out the door & went back into the dm2 bit to hunt for health, ended up getting stuck in there) and i could have done without the chthon bit at the end, felt a little old & predictable!
the last three maps were all pretty neat but i didn't really get much of a sense of flow between them. and the end boss fight was bizarre.. whenever the fight started heating up he'd give up & hide under his wing for ages (the second time he did this i got bored waiting & ran up close to him with impulse 255 on to finish him off). seemed a bit of a pointless feature imo, would have been a pretty solid fight if it weren't for that.
overall i guess it wasn't as strong as say, nehahra or soul of evil, but it had some pretty memorable moments. not given the dm maps a blast yet but shall endevour to do so later :)
Distrans
#68 posted by negke [82.83.32.202] on 2007/07/14 19:53:22
Oh, you changed the way the secret exit is accessed the last minute? I'm not sure if it's really less confusing now.
So people, better check your short term memory. ;)
Travail = Really Great Stuff
#69 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/07/14 21:59:58
I especially like the map with the dam
#70 posted by dogToffee [81.152.73.246] on 2007/07/15 03:42:10
Beginning to wish I never mentioned the DM2 part.. (although I think two of us did) what with all the GPL shenanigans :/
But some cheap pimpage for our Belgian friend Polarite (Beast) who was kind enough to slap the pack on one of his servers -
flanders.servegame.org - port 26002
Although I got a connect error after the start map I know it works for others.
Sir H
Congrats
#71 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.14] on 2007/07/15 04:22:37
That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip
Looking forward to playing it soon.
Bloody Hell...
#72 posted by distrans [121.44.41.94] on 2007/07/15 08:45:42
Spirit: Thanks for the stats!
All: comment has been diverse but generally express enjoyment, vive la differance.
nitin: given how much I've come to respect your opinion, your comments are greatly appreciated. The brick texture is from q3test btw, it's one of the few that looks like it shouldn't be part of the Q3 set :) As for neg!ke's secret mini mission, it started out as a single additional level then grew so big it had to be split into two levels, both of which grew to the point where they started choking the engine. The man's a machine! Anyhoo, they're secret, and as such some work (memory in this case) should be required by the player to access them. The payoff is well worth the effort, as you pointed out. Besides, in two weeks the secrets and Easter Eggs will be common knowledge, and very few will miss the opportunity to play neg's awesome cavern level.
Sir H: the team is very proud to have brought you out of lurker mode. I'm glad someone got poisoned by the Archenids :) I was beginning to wonder if they'd lost the ability.
rj: sorry you didn't find it as coherent as we thought we'd achieved, but I'm glad you enjoyed things overall. I thought I'd sorted that return to the interior problem in qte2m2. Heh, even with long and careful testing something or two will slip through. Can I put you on the list for beta tester on the next project?
ijed: looking forward to you comments on the rest of it.
golden_boy: if you believe inadequate consideration was given to GPL by the Travail team then you assume too much. The various release dates associated with it and the longevity of Quake's appeal has made it, in quite a few instances, an anomoly with respect to GPL. This doesn't mean GPL is bad, just hard to apply in some instances (and in twenty years time these instances will be almost non-existant). In the meantime we appeal, as HeadThump politely pointed out, to common sense in the form of common law. If you wish to discuss the process and reasoning whereby my final approach to GPL was reached in this instance, please do not hesitate to contact me at quake -dot- travail -at- gmail -dot- com
#73 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/15 10:24:16
Can I put you on the list for beta tester on the next project?
sure! whenever it's ready just post a note in the beta thread & i'll contact you. is there one in progress at the moment?
also, in response to another part of your post, i too got a poinsoning from the archenids. i'd say that section was actually my favourite part of the whole game; i loved how the medkits were spread out so that you had to use them wisely, coupled with the panic factor of the screen turning red if you got bitten. i also managed to use up all my ammo on that section & had to fend the last one off with the axe, which was awesome :) (my fault as i missed the GL completely until seeing it in the intermission, d'oh)
Oh My...
#74 posted by distrans [121.44.41.94] on 2007/07/15 13:05:17
...you beat the level without the GL. I doff my hat!
As to 'in progress', I've a level about 75% done. It follows directly from "Recurrent Rumours," the first prequel to Travail.
#75 posted by Trinca [89.180.89.144] on 2007/07/18 00:16:22
finaly finish playing travail!!!
great pack!
first episode is classic quake, not to hard on hard, was real real fun enjoy it a lot not so good like second episode but is normal becouse of textures quality but gameplay was perfect and fun.
second episode is more detailed and more new quake stile of maps with pretty textures that map maps much better, neg|ke and distrans made real great job on that episode.
final levels
love all great job love the red ciborgs :) made me run all over that basement :) the Azoth was fucking evil!!! both levels with him were great and the gameplay on hard was just perfect.
good work guys.. sorry my feedback but you guys already know that i suck in english :\
i will replay it again next week ;) must beta test a map this week before someone kill me ;)
thks guys!!! enjoi it a lot, will play again for sure.
Spiders
#76 posted by steven_a [203.55.33.99] on 2007/07/18 07:14:31
Maps are awesome.. not too linear and worth a second play straight away. Quite enjoyed the first boss level, and the long spider cave is fantastic - a ponderous and attractive segue - and a prelude to the next spider level. Up to E2M6 with tyrquake 0.56 and no problems so far. The graphics are just amazing.
Nice Pack!
#77 posted by generic [76.3.9.31] on 2007/07/21 06:58:24
I never got the soundtrack going but the levels were nice and atmospheric nonetheless. Like many of the other comments here, the second episode was by far my favorite. And as far as bad guys go, I liked the new base boys and the uberscrag but Azoth looked a little too cartoony - his/her special effects were nice though :-)
The gameplay was spot on throughout even though I never figured out how to get to the last boards without cheating ;-)
I loved the architecture and all those texture combos, BTW.
Great work guys!!!
#78 posted by Trinca [89.180.187.102] on 2007/07/21 20:10:22
hehe forget to saw replay travail again :p and found a secret.. on last level with the crew pics :)
neg|ke you are sexyyyyyyyyyyy
:p
distrans keep away from drugs
:)
scragbait take carefull with guns!
:p
Asaki got latin blood :p
:p
aguire is nordic nothing to say look like one!
Preach look like a english guy :p is for sure!!!
(Spoilers)
#79 posted by ijed [201.222.204.39] on 2007/07/21 21:16:16
Still playing through, just into the second episode. Yep, playing slowly.
And its good, I reckon it is better than the first, but for a single reason. The change in playstyle doesn't bother me so much; I'd say the firt 3/4 of episode one is more HL1 and the later maps more quakey - but this isn't a bad thing.
The problem with the earlier maps (I think) is that they're not as sectional as later on. It's nice to complete a large interconnected map (the dam was very satisfying) but it's also confusing; alot of the time some seemingly cryptic message pointed the way forward and the size of the maps meant a wrong turn resulted in a good five minutes of wandering before returning and trying another route.
'The door lies underwater' is a good example, after collecting the SK. It's not too helpful when most of the huge level has water.
But it was nice to explore, just sometimes it became tiresome.
This is going to start sounding like a plain chant whinge, but the enemy mix also began to grate - there was alot of reliance on the vore and Shambler, and in the later levels of episode one it became a bit tedious. I say this because pot shotting a Shambler (or Vore) who can't attack you because of the distance sometimes made the gameplay inconsistent. An increase in the Vore's max attack range + the RL would have helped. I would also have liked to see Quoth Droles replacing Shamblers in some of these areas, but that's a different mod.
Artisticly the levels shone. Getting into the Zerstorer style sections was cool and pure Quakiness. I liked the dream catcher thing in the boss prelude as well. The base / castle parts were well done as well - it did feel like an ancient place that had been taken over by a more technologically advanced culture; good work.
The superscrag was a bit of a typical boss combat - it would have been improved by the support scrags spawning from outside the edge of the arena and flying in rather than inside and just sitting there until the rocketsplash from hitting the boss killed them. Granted this would have made it more difficult, but with all that space it could have been done.
The opening levels of Ep2 were good, Somewhat basic in parts but very well done - the small improvements all over helped alot here, the HK especially.
I found the spider section a bit underwhelming to be honest. I under stand there's a second one so I'll withold judgement. The spiders are excellent enemies - thier jump reminds me of a hacehugger and the poison is really well done.
But the section is very lineal, I'dve preferred the switches scattered off in some otherwise pointless detours so that the player is more likely to reach a locked door than an open one. Thinking Shelob's Lair there with winding tunnels etc.
I'm up to the library after that, which works very well - the HK modifications work especially well there.
Hope all that doesn't sound too negative, it's just because the rest is so good. This is one of the best packs for a long while.
More comments to come.
Yup
#80 posted by Preach [86.150.195.130] on 2007/07/21 22:21:05
Preach look like a english guy :p is for sure!!!
Guilty as charged...
I Didn't Realise..
#81 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/21 22:32:04
..that us english guys had a *look* that could be recognised. learn something new every day i guess!
and i didn't find the hall.. but i extracted the textures & noticed the pictures in there. scragbait, i'm hoping you didn't take my episode 1 crtique too harshly; you look like someone i wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of...
But . . .
#82 posted by ijed [201.222.204.39] on 2007/07/21 22:36:15
The Angles have a genetic component that makes us good at mapping.
And the Portuguese just make thier maps too difficult. </cough>
Trinca
#83 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.70] on 2007/07/21 23:30:03
I sure am nordic, but the guy on the pic is Klaus Kinski, a famous German actor of yore. His pic is taken from an early cult movie from which I borrowed my nick; a seriously disturbed spanish knight in armor ...
#84 posted by Trinca [89.180.187.102] on 2007/07/22 01:13:13
hehe :p i will replay again to make a 100% on all secrets :)
second and third round are with my kid! he loves Quake more then me...hehehe
and guys hard skill is simply perfect... was realy realy beta tester! is perfect!
Wrath Of God
#85 posted by nitin [203.214.73.32] on 2007/07/22 01:53:15
hee, been meaning to see that one :)
Azoth
#86 posted by steven_a [203.55.33.245] on 2007/07/23 01:46:49
Qtfin2 is the best quake boss i've seen. Good work guys, amazing mod. Found the credits hall beneath the qtfin3 exit, though can't say the same about most of the secrets %/. TyrQuake played out the whole thing (skill 1).
@Distrans, AguirRe
#87 posted by steven_a [203.55.33.74] on 2007/07/24 11:39:16
Soundtrack is seriously good. I don't know how it goes alongside the game, but IMHO it's easily better than half the ambient electronic stuff that makes it to commercial CDs.
> 'Quake' and 'DooM' are registered by Id so don't pretend you can use them
> without limitation (Activision aside).
??
--
Laugh. Trinca thinks aguirRe looks like a crazy Klaus Kinski, and distrans' a dealer. You tell 'em.
#88 posted by vago [201.222.191.5] on 2007/07/26 03:44:21
how can i change the crappy textures of travail?
Just
#89 posted by JohnXmas [83.79.24.221] on 2007/07/26 04:10:22
... play something else!
. . . Like Doom3
#90 posted by ijed [201.222.204.43] on 2007/07/26 06:14:34
Still playing through; started again. Different machine. But still with limited playtime, so just completed ep1 again.
A few more thoughts, but nothing really to add. I do like the SuperScrag, could have seen some of her sisters, although that'd demote episode boss status.
And the Vore / Shambler combo in The Ugly Place still irritates . . . I'd have gone for a Thunderbolt near the start and a Vore / Ogre combination; though you can treat that as ijed generic map idea number 0.001.
The artistry and complexity continues to impress, very alot of nice brushwork here, over a huge scale. Even if it does sometimes get in the way.
I've got a few more thoughts but I'll try finishing the pack first.
Thanks for the Travailing, of which I still have another episode to play through.
Vago:
#91 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/26 18:34:47
you can open any bsp (as if it were a texture wad) with a program called texmex.. others probably do it too but that's the one i use, it's free to download. you can then replace any textures you desire, providing the replacements are the same name & size
though i didn't think they were that bad, personally. just wasn't keen on the contrast between old-skool & nu-skool, which is quite prevailent throughout the pack (and was a bit of a problem with nehahra too if i remember rightly)
A Little Problem
#92 posted by Bad Sector [88.218.25.38] on 2007/07/27 01:57:46
This is a very nice mission pack. Travail actually is the first "user made" mission pack i played so much (usually i just play single maps). I managed to go to the third "end" level (qtfin3 or something like that).
However, at this i have a problem. I'm in the room with the zombies, where a tomb-like box opens with zombies inside and with other zombies around appearing once you get the golden key. The problem is that the bars in the entrance to this room close and they don't open when i kill all the zombies. I tried shooting around, walking on walls and even noclipping to see if i missed something, but still i wasn't able to find a solution.
Is there something i didn't notice?
Note that i'm using the Dark Places engine. Although the documentation states that FitzQuake is the best engine to play Travail with, that wouldn't be an option for me since FitzQuake doesn't seem to be available for Linux. However beyond odd monster/item placement in 5-6 cases (they were in middle air or half inside a wall) i didn't saw anything strange.
Bad Sector...
#93 posted by distrans [121.44.69.54] on 2007/07/28 09:49:54
... can only assume there's still a zombie somewhere to kill: one that may not have spawned properly and has 'fallen out or through' so to speak.
If you want to test this get to where the problem exists then (OK, here's the Travail coder's Easter Egg) type 'impulse 47' at the console. If the bars move then my assumption above is correct.
Speaking of Easter Eggs, how are people going with secrets etc. Is there need of a listing yet?
Distrans
#94 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/28 13:42:53
Yes please do: I found some of them (during beta test), but far to find out all of them...
And I forget to say that I still didn't play the pack in its final version (shame on me), as I'm currently fullvising the first map (on three) of my current project... but don't worry, you'll get good news soon ;)
That Was It
#95 posted by Bad Sector [88.218.25.38] on 2007/07/28 19:35:18
So that was it, it seems. After typing impulse 47 at the console, an ogre appeared (only one) and after killing it, the bars opened. Then i went and killed Azoth and finished the game.
JPL...
#96 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/07/31 06:13:52
...seems Baker is planning something that means it's not a good idea for me to start publishing listings yet, sorry.
I'm playing through 5 Rivers tonight, so go and play the final version of Travail already!
Distrans
#97 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/31 07:50:16
Don't worry: I have time to play final version of Travail now ;) I''l give feedback for sure...
What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been...
#98 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/08/06 12:26:42
Hello everybody,
just finished Travail right to the end yesterday, and I thought I’d post a coupla ramblings straight ahead about the whole thing...
Let me start off by saying all you guys made an awesome effort, large, ambitious and innovative in lots of manners, so, for starters, a toast to you all!
On to the comments, the first thing I have to point out is the way I played through this, that has been quite strange and with lots of time beetween gaming sessions... I’m sure that detracted a lot from the overall feeling. To make things worse, I was not able to get the soundtrack to work at all and I made a mistake that had me play twice the 1st episode to end the journey.
In fact, after having gone through ep01 on normal, back to Y va tan, I stumbled inside the Hard gateway and started off from the 2nd episode without realizing that I had lost the runes from the 1st. My fault, of course, but I think it would have been nice to lock the difficulty settings, once one had chosen, until the end of the full journey...
Anyway, the second pass through made me find all the secrets for all the levels in ep 01, so that’s good... The only one that escaped me is the only one secret in qte1m4 - el lugar feo, if anyone has a tip for this, drop me a mail...
Episode one is a good intro to the whole project, very oldschoolish in feeling, with cramped architecture and generally not so good looking natural spaces. The areas in the open are, IMHO, very evocative, but bring forward some limitations of quake mapping (terrain realism being one) that personally I don’ like much... Another thing that I found overused is falls, be it waterfalls or bloodfalls, they look sooo fake in Q...
Gameplay wise the episode has a feeling of exploration of learning how to deal with these strange, ancient races that I definitely loved. Would have loved a new weapon, tho... (Maybe even the riot controller! It rocks sooo bad!!!)
Loved the boss, too, nice idea to have a Scrag Mother... Very nice....
Episode 2 is da s**t!!!
Everything is awzam! Architecture is tops, gameplay is tops, secrets, well... I had that idea for ages floating in my mind! You did it! So great!
The only thing, maybe, is that I never realized I battled a Boss... Did I miss something? Can some of you send me a mail with the sequence of all levels to be played? Mind you... I did not find all secrets, but I think I got the really important ones ;))), just wanted to know the right level sequence, because after a while I was a bit lost and overly surprised to find myself back in Y va tan without having encountered an end of episode Boss.
I would have loved to see more of the new Juggers around... Wait... Were they the bosses? Please, someone rescue me, I’m so confused.
The final...
Well, this is ups and downs...
A slight return of cramped architecture... A very hateable series of climbs and falls in qtfin2 that, personally, did not add anything to the feeling of the level but annoyance, and then Azoth.
Uhmmm.... Azoth.
Azoth... well... It’s got a super nice feature... I love the way he protects himself with the wing... That’s nice, but IMHO the build and texturing, and even animation needed definitely to be worked on.
As it is, it looks stiff, a little funny, maybe, not scary at all... I expected something really scary and bad... But Azoth did not really cut it for me. Sorry guys, I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings or sound presumptuous, just expressing my fellings about the pack....
I felt the same about Nehahra... The end boss really did not make it for me.
While we’re at it, a little OT, anyone would ever consider use of Zerstorer as an ingame boss? I loved so much its looks and animation in the final cutscene of the pack....
Well, well... back to the Travail...
I loved the level names, a matter often overlooked in general Q discussion, the spanish names(or portuguese? Or... well, I’m not sure...) add a really dark and evil feeling...
All in all, the pack is gorgeous and, as usual, all comments are meant to be constructive criticism. I thank you from the deep, dark pits of my old heart for having spent LOTS of your time to bring us good hours of fragging fun, and I look forward to a complete list of secrets and a walkthrough.
And, obviously, your next release...
(Can't believe I wrote this much! The things you do when you don't feel like working! Sorry for the verbosity, guys, I'll keep it shorter next time)
Yeah
#99 posted by Bal [82.67.176.242] on 2007/08/06 12:55:02
I finished this a while back, but didn't comment at the time cause there's plenty to say, fortunatly, most of it has been said already, which saves me the trouble!
So just wanted to congratulate you all on such great work, thanks for the great episode! =)
Century, W000t...
#100 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/08/08 05:42:06
...thanks again for the feedback, believe me none of it is rejected out of hand. The_Silent, the idea with "bosses" in e2 was to have (except for Chthon the undying) a many headed (so to speak) boss. Inspired somewhat by a deliberate miscomprehension of the notion "my name is legion". Hence, the horde of archenids at the end of qte2m1 and gaggle of Juggers at the end of qte2m4.
So, the guys at the local cybercafe set us up last night and we played through e1 and the finale in three player coop. My first time ever playing Quake with (or against) anyone else. Certainly opened my eyes to building with an eye to coop. Two things stood out...when anyone found out why we were having so many laughs and encouraging each other so much they immediately wanted to join the game even though it's Quake ONE!!! (is coop so lacking from modern games?), the second was the look on the owners face when Azoth went through the final sequence, after which the team and everyone watching broke into a cheer :) Awesome!
Now, we ran FitzQuake on all the machines with a heapsize of 128000 in the comline. Whenever we tried to enter e2 the machine acting as server (yes we rotated it) crashed out with the following error:
SZ_GetSpace: 8044 is > full buffer size
E1 and the fins were error free.
Is it a client related thing? Should we swap to JoeQuakeGL for e2? Spirit, what engine did you run e2 in? Cheers...
Coop Is Great!
#101 posted by Spirit [84.143.37.7] on 2007/08/08 08:44:11
We played with Joequake as server. We did not play in one piece though (e1 on one evening and e2+fin on another) so we might have avoided that crash by this.
Coop Issue
#102 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.80] on 2007/08/08 14:42:42
I've checked what happens and it's ye olde signon buffer (size 8000) that overflows in Fitz/Joe/etc when running qte2m1 in coop (with more than one player) on Hard skill. It probably was already close to the limit and the extra players tip it over the edge.
Except for using an engine that can cope with this, I don't think there's anything to do except change the map. I made a quick fix and by just deleting the six last ambient_lavagurg ents, Fitz can play the map with four players (one more and it fails again).
You could try deleting other ents as well, but they must exist on Hard to make any difference obviously. The lavagurgs seemed to be of less importance here ... ;)
I even tried various forms of dedicated server solutions (e.g. running my engine as a dedicated using std protocol 15 with Fitz clients), but I couldn't get any of them to work. The signon buffer seems to overflow one way or another.
Hmm
#103 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.111] on 2007/08/08 23:51:30
After trying again, it actually seems like it's working using my engine as a dedicated server for Fitz (or other) clients. But the signon buffer size must be kept beneath 8192, otherwise the limited clients will abort anyway.
This means up to 12 players seems OK and I've run several limited clients while mowing my way through qte2m1 on Hard.
The ammo/health shortage was bad though, dying way too many times. But that's a different story ...
Oh, Good...
#104 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/08/09 05:53:10
...since we'll probably only be running with three players, killing lavagurgs should do the job :) This map and qte2m3 are right on the edge in terms of many limits, but then it was always about getting as close as possible without breaking things.
Thanks as always aguirRe, and with respect to ammo/health :P :P :P :P :P :P ;)
Finished At Last
#105 posted by mwh [62.31.157.102] on 2007/08/10 20:56:11
Played through on hard, mostly by mistake. Was hard! Am going to go through on easy and try to find some more secrets now...
The main impression is: wow, what a lot of work has gone into this. Congratulations to all involved on getting it out the door.
Like many others, I found episode one a bit busy and cramped. Episode 2 was pretty amazing all through. Found the boss battles a bit annoying, but nothing new there.
There's life in this quake 1 thing yet!
Ummm.
#106 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/08/16 00:04:59
Played the first level. Overwhelming impression is some cool scenes and desires and some pretty poor gameplay situations that often make the cramped designs hinder the player. It got better towards the end though.
Then I finished and it dumped me back to the start map.
You Mean
#107 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.14] on 2007/08/16 01:09:21
you played qte1m1, found the exit in the tunnel below water and you didn't end up in qte1m2? That's the only way out of that map ...
Do you have any zipped savegame to upload so it can be reproduced?
Shambler...
#108 posted by Scragbait [67.68.3.29] on 2007/08/16 05:06:45
Are you playing the Travail preview instead of the full release? The demo map returns the player to the demo start map.
I hope you make it to at least qte1m4 in Episode 1. IMHO, it's my best map in Travail. Sorry for all the others, folks.
Hmmm...
#109 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/08/16 06:35:49
...what size is the .zip file you extracted from?
Scragbait
#110 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.58] on 2007/08/16 11:05:37
You shouldn't be sorry for your map contributions in Travail. I feel that they're very imaginative, with great textures and brushwork and a nice mix of oldskool atmosphere and newer styles.
And your dedication to push through, while fighting horrendous tool processing times, is nothing but remarkable.
Keep up the good work and let's see more maps!
#111 posted by Trinca [85.240.98.90] on 2007/08/16 12:15:42
yeee, episode two is more good looking becouse of the textures... but episode 1 give us lots of exploracion and old school gameplay
:) hope to see more from you Scragbait... you maps are much much better then mines!
Scragbait;
#112 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/08/16 18:18:50
why do i get the feeling that was a 'fish for compliments' type apology? ;)
for what it's worth, i thought the outdoor areas in those maps were excellent & quite inspiring. i'd actually be interested in seeing a collaborative map between you & distrans, since his maps felt more solid & neat, but yours had more creative & spectacular environments. i feel that combination could go somewhere!
Sure GoldMines, Scragbite!
#113 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/18 01:34:54
you maps are much much better then mines!
My Mines Are Better Than Your Explodes!
Eh.
#114 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/08/18 17:36:42
Yeah I exited out of the tunnel.
The zip I've got is travail.zip, 39.4 meg.
The only save-game I've got is from much earlier in the map (pre-outdoor area I think).
Lemme check to see if I can load the second map individually...
Oh okay I see.
I am playing Travail Preview....though I did download Travail itself. Ummm that might explain things.
Victory For Shambler!!!
(Have now installed full Travail and second map loads by itself at least etc etc)
I Just Found Out
#115 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.165] on 2007/08/22 14:22:23
that qte2m6 cannot be loaded in DM mode, due to missing precached models. Then again, I guess it wasn't really meant for serious DM anyway ...
It's interesting because if you force it to load in DM, there'll still be some monsters, along with respawning items for the player, very handy ...
Yeah
#116 posted by negke [82.82.171.56] on 2007/08/22 15:09:28
It's caused by the modelindex hack, the info_notnull entities are not spawnflagged to be removed in DM mode. None of the maps are meant for it, there no DM settings in any of them.
Respawning Items In SP
#117 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/22 15:40:34
Can this be hacked in?
Could be useful for in a boss fight, or even a respawning arena battle.
Yes
#118 posted by negke [82.82.171.56] on 2007/08/22 16:02:29
See the Progs.dat Tricks thread.
Qte2m5 has a respawning Pentagram for instance.
Groovy
#119 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/22 17:08:04
I'd forgotten it was there - I combed most of that thread during warp.
cheers.
Bit More.
#120 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/08/26 23:26:15
Played QTE1M2 and a bit of QTE1M3....
So, tell me Scraggy, on a scale of, say, 8 up to 10, how much were you inspired by Unreal and Half-Life mapping??
It's good stuff. The combat is good now too, tough and good.
E1 Influences
#121 posted by Scragbait [69.159.41.105] on 2007/08/27 03:10:49
Travail E1 Influence Factor
Unreal: 5/10
Half-Life: 0/10
Tronyn: 7.5/10
I always liked Unreal - it was as immersive as Quake but in a spacious world. BTW, it even had a more open musical score then Quake's dark, almost claustrophobic selection.
I really liked Half-Life but it never entered my mind while producing E1.
If there was one stand out influence, it would be another Quake mapper rather then another game. I have always enjoyed Tronyn's sprawling, journey-like and id textured maps. Like Tronyn, I also used less repetitive geometry in QTe1m1 to QTe1m3 and QTe1m5. I tried to make a variety of structures to motivate the more curious player to continue without knowing what they might see next. This type of mapping dragged production of these maps over 4 years (crazy slow mapper Scraggy.)
My earlier maps - QTe1m1 to QTe1m3 are not well scaled and this has been made clear through feedback. With more experience, my other maps: QTe1m4 and 5 and QTFin2 and 3 are better. I still felt that the first three E1 maps had something to offer visually and that they did progress the Travail story through setpieces and were playable for players like myself, who progress in a more cautious and defensive manner and who like to sightsee along the way. Quake for me has always been about stopping amongst the corpses to take in the ambience. I knew that these maps wouldn't have universal appeal but I still like my ugly first-born children even with their zits and low foreheads. I agree that the first three E1 maps will frustrate a more aggressive and highly mobile player.
Thanks for all the feedback, func types. I do listen and for sure I learn. It is appreciated. This is the place to come to for the straight dope on map quality.
Likes Cramped Maps
#122 posted by Baker [67.149.220.91] on 2007/08/27 05:21:42
I played through Travail twice and although the map I liked the most was the final map (*), the e2 maps were just too easy for me.
I really struggled and struggled on the e1 maps and was forced to explore the environment and manage ammo well.
Had the e1 maps not been so difficult, I probably would have just blown through all of the Travail without dying or having to get immersed in the environment.
(*) I really liked the mausoleum theme and the crack in the ceiling was just too great, plus I liked how the skybox changed to night at the end.)
Well
#123 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/08/27 19:36:22
I vote the start of e1m1 as a temporary blip on the gameplay. Since then it has been interesting and fun and challenging in a good way. I'm a more cautious player so maybe it suits me, but I've found some pretty smart tactical challenges. The lower cave in the lava map being particularly interesting.
It's all good stuff.
This
#124 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/08/27 20:39:35
pack shines in the tactical/slow stuff.
And...
#125 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/08/28 06:51:04
...speaking of influence. Did Painkiller enter the equation with respect to qtfin3, at least subconsciously?
Doobly Woobly.
#126 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/08/28 17:41:04
Well ever since the first cavern near the end of E1m1, this has been a blast. Just finished the spider secret level. Really liking a lot of the gameplay and general vibe to it....can't quite put my finger on it, it's just fun, a lot happens to keep the player on their toes but there's always a chance.
Some nice designs too. The outdoor bits in the previous E2 map and the mini-underground waterfall to name but a couple.
QTFin3
#127 posted by Scragbait [69.159.41.192] on 2007/08/30 03:20:07
I had just wrapped up Painkiller when I started that map. The influence was more then subconscious.
As a team member, I knew that E2 was going to be a big hit as it kept impressing me with the size, artful construction, imagination and intense but not unfair gameplay. That and good secrets too. Throughout, level-to-level transitions were made to create a continuous journey feel whether or not you found the secret mini-episode (and you owe it to yourself to find it).
I Travailed Far And Wide Through Many Different Times...
#128 posted by Sielwolf [84.130.227.44] on 2007/08/30 22:12:38
- generaly I liked the music (except some glitchy hissy stuff in map 2/3), but the monster sounds in it were annoying, i.e. e1m4 had lots of Vores, and there was the Vore wakeup sound in the music, same goes for other maps...
- Monsters: the new Deathknight is great, but I hated the cheating spiders, reminded me a lot in behaviour of the Stalkers in one of the Q2 missionpacks, they dodge grenades right when you fire etc.
Azoth seemed a bit rough in behaviour, too slow, and for a boss monster his attacks were too weak (same goes for the ÜberScrag). But I liked how the final fight stretched across two maps, that was new and different.
- Maps: E1M2/3 reminded me a lot of Unreal (as someone already mentioned) in their epic appearance, Episode II maps are just awesome, what more can be said :D
Negike´s secret levels were fun to play, but the Spider map seemed too repetitive in style; very confusing to navigate, everything looked the same.
- Gameplay: the difficulty could have been higher, as I was able to finish a good number of maps on the first try on nightmare, with cautious play.
Given the linearity of most maps, harder gameplay (skill settings ftw) would have increased the replay value; i.e. more daring stuff like in E1M4 with Vores in open spaces (hard but not as unfair as it seemed at first). Also, it was nice to include the Riot controller from Zerstörer, but it seemed overpowered.
Overall an instant classic with good gameplay, fun secrets and easter-eggs ;)
- Demos:
E1M2: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
E1M4: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
E2M1: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
E2M2: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
E2M4: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
E2M5: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
FIN1: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
FIN3: http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_si...
Sielwolf...
#129 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/08/30 22:21:59
... is THE demo maker ;)
#130 posted by Trinca [89.181.18.80] on 2007/08/31 00:05:52
hehe i always forget to record at first try :p, i´m always more interresed on waste all the bad guys
JPL
#131 posted by Sielwolf [84.130.230.146] on 2007/08/31 13:26:36
THE demo maker
nah, some SDA guys like Stubgaard et al are THE demo makers, thanks though, hope you all enjoy them :-)
You Make
#132 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.33] on 2007/08/31 15:34:44
it seem so easy, although you were dangerously low on health in many areas ...
Btw, if some zombies get stuck on ground, you can still kill them in a one-second "window" every five seconds when they try to get up.
Hm
#133 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/31 20:51:32
Had plenty of stuck zombies in warp on curves and slopes, mainly in Bile Plant - didn't know that.
Will watch the demos when my Quake window comes around again.
Sielwolf
#134 posted by negke [82.83.57.110] on 2007/08/31 22:58:03
Thanks for the demos. Some entertaining and sometimes pretty close-to-demise action.
Seilwolf...
#135 posted by distrans [59.167.18.254] on 2007/09/01 10:56:49
...picture me tipping my hat (rasta beanie). I so like the way you push forward in a level then bring the action back, sweet! Thanks for only exposing one Easter Egg...gotta leave something for the other punters :)
He He
#136 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.79] on 2007/09/01 18:27:03
...picture me tipping my hat (rasta beanie)
I must of met you the other day on a street corner. I was the one who did a old timey Gold Prospector's jig to your rendition of Get Up, Stand up
...
#137 posted by starbuck [82.41.201.40] on 2007/09/01 19:00:18
And I was the one who told you to get a job.
Finished This Now.
#138 posted by Shambler [82.38.192.253] on 2007/09/03 21:28:38
Sorry but I can't collect my thoughts to write anything sensible about it. No carefully thought out constructive criticism.
What I can say is I really enjoyed it, once I got past the first map. Good varied mapping, good varied gameplay, lots of interest. I found a lot of fun in the gameplay, it was well balanced and had some great action moments, although it did get a bit easy at the end. I liked some the designs and mapping styles too, from the early semi-real stuff (although sometimes a bit random) to the later Quake fantasy styles. Some of the highlights being the spider caverns and the outdoor areas with rounded rocks and stuff. I can't really remember, it was good.
Oh, and the Q2 Oblivion style map, that was well nice. Bit easy with the weapons from previous maps.
I liked the first two boss fights (Scrag and Enforcer bots - the latter being quite an unusual challenge). The flying minotaur thing was a bit less interesting but okay.
I liked the spiders, pretty scary and a good challenge. Hard to hit with the super shotty thingy.
I had a few issues with continuity in the episodes, particularly the second episode where it was a bit of a mish-mash of stylistic progression in places. It sometimes felt more like a collection of maps than an episode, which was a bit out of place with the general high quality.
Good stuff. Good Quake.
Qw On Qtdm3
#139 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.16] on 2007/09/06 20:07:38
Today's FTK is played on qtdm3: http://quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtop...
To observe the games do "observe clanwars.xs4all.nl:28510" or start qw with "+observe clanwars.xs4all.nl:28510"
:)
Very Very Late Feedbcack
#140 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/09/09 10:24:52
Sorry to be late, but due to holidays, mapping, office restart, I was quite busy and I didn't find time to play the final Travail release.
Well, I can just say that I loved the Travail pack. For all maps, there is a level of quality I never saw before in any other pack (well, maybe I didn't played all of them before travail): details, item placement, ammo/monster balance, are really good, and the must is the overall global architecture that is awesome.
However, I really prefered episode 2 compared to episode 1, maybe because of my preferences that go on medieval style rather than on base style.
Well, for sure Travail is THE pack of the year, not to say THE pack of these last 11 years ;)
I can't wait to see Travail 2 :P
Secrets And Eggs...
#141 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/10/17 01:54:29
...a full list of both is now available on the Travail site. Also, aguirRe has supplied hi-res skins for the Travail beasties, and these are available on the download page.
http://www.quakeone.com/travail
Thanks for updating the site Spirit!
Those
#142 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/10/17 06:57:50
are crazy. Find secret, go back to same secret and something changes!
Hehe...
#143 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/10/18 06:29:51
...Q2, ride the forklift round its circuit 13 times then go back to the first place you came from, wherein something has changed.
Easter eggs are always kooky :)
Hey Scraggy
#144 posted by negke [82.82.179.29] on 2007/10/20 12:02:11
Just found your sig secret for the first time. Most awesome! Should be expanded to a whole map.
Crates Are Great
#145 posted by Scragbait [70.51.94.226] on 2007/10/22 01:42:49
A whole map dedicated to crates in space. Could work...
Finally Started Playing
#146 posted by Tronyn [24.79.154.192] on 2007/11/12 12:06:56
I've only completed the first three maps so far, which seem to form a coherent unit centered around the idea of a river full of dams and machinery.
I am highly impressed. I get a huge sense of satisfaction from exploring areas, and I particularly like believable, detailed mixes of manmade structures and outdoor geometry. I also really like setpieces, and buildings you can go inside of.
Even when you are not looking for secrets (some great ones btw!), the sense of exploration here exceeds anything I can recall in Q1SP maybe even since The Demon King way back in the day. I really like not being forced to follow a path, having the player "on rails" ala Doom3. Being able to find out where to go next is its own pleasure in these maps.
Key usage is good, very different from the "you're on a giant quest to get the gold key" and more like going into one building to get the key to another.
Good gameplay throughout, remarkable restraint on the monster counts, a nice change from all the mindless hordes that people such as yours truly are guilty of using, and plenty of care put into when/where monsters spawn.
Obviously, not a lot of mappers want to do this type of level design. I can tell that it took a ton of work - first of all to think of such complicated setpieces in a coherent layout, and then to actually build them. The attention to detail on the functional architecture was great. I also like how there are textures from tons of different sources, used wherever they're appropriate, rather than sticking to X.wad and having all the metal be one metal, and all the wood be one wood/etc.
So far, a unique, impressive/cool, subtle, and extremely well developed form of level design is on display here.
Tronyn...
#147 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/11/16 03:51:11
...glad to see you finally getting around to it, but also wondering if you are playing with or without the soundtrack.
With!
#148 posted by Tronyn [24.79.154.192] on 2007/11/16 03:57:37
And it adds to the atmosphere significantly. It contributes to the Unreal-like vibe of Episode 1.
Good boss, looked a bit weird, but the idea of some nasty female thing spewing forth reptilian growths fits perfectly with Quake (and the fleshy level).
Episode 2, just got into, nice texture set, and as other people have said the library area looks great. Good brushwork throughout, very tidy.
and btw, I don't have a problem with the ambient sounds in the soundtracks.
Nice One !
#149 posted by Stef [82.241.175.150] on 2008/01/02 13:03:45
Hi,
I'm going back to Quake, and I'd say this mod is very good. Nice work. I just regret the low res of the riot gun, I run Quake in 1920x1200 (fps ok ;)) and at such a resolution that weapon looks really ugly :(
Anyway : good work !
No problem with the ambient sounds in the soundtracks either. I liked the dm6-ish level ;)
Thanks Stef...
#150 posted by distrans [121.44.94.225] on 2008/01/03 06:14:44
...I um'd and ah'd about reskinning the riot-controller and in the end decided that given Travail's secondary purpose as homage it was probably more important this time to keep the original "drawviewmodel" skin (ugly as it is). The model skin is actually pretty good, but if I ever use it again I'll definitely be replacing the viewmodel. Glad you enjoyed the rest!
Tronyn: did you stop playing, or just commenting? I was rather enjoying your progression.
#151 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2008/01/07 19:42:43
I played this one back in August but played the two secret maps just a moment ago. Needless to say, I was pretty short on ammo since I played the levels as standalones. However, I made it through on S2 without dying. It actually got a bit boring due to constant fighting. Architecture was great, as one would expect, especially the caves looked real smooth although it was so repetitive that I got lost a few times.
Final Rounds
#152 posted by cornelus [79.114.167.74] on 2008/05/10 15:00:29
is there a special tactic to beat azoth? its difficult to shoot him and avoid homing missiles in the same time. only if i get him again and again crying.
I Mean
#153 posted by cornelus [79.114.167.74] on 2008/05/10 15:03:59
those homing are much more wicked than vore's for example...
Incredibly
#154 posted by cornelus [79.114.167.74] on 2008/05/10 16:52:32
but i managed to beat it from a strategic position popping to him all the grenades i had left.
this was in fin2
the final battle was much easier... no more "stupid" superhoming missiles :)
Yay...
#155 posted by distrans [59.167.236.18] on 2008/05/11 10:08:32
...I'm glad you made it through. Did you find negke's two level secret mission inside episode two? If you wish to play it separately just pull down the console and type 'map qte2m5' and away you go.
Distrans - Screenshot
#156 posted by steven_a [203.55.33.245] on 2008/05/14 01:41:30
Playing your soundtrack with this background seemed appropriate. So much great music comes from Melbourne and Australia heh ... Or maybe i'm just biased.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12659...
Ya...
#157 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2008/05/15 04:40:24
...though all the capitals and regional centres have provided superb artists at one time or another. Melbourne and Sydney do tend to operate as the main strange attractors though.
Happy listening...
Hm. Think I Got It Wrong.
#158 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2009/07/28 11:43:02
In post #98 I stated I had to play twice episode 1 because of an error in entering the 2nd one.
Not true.
Just finished a Skill 3 romp through the whole thing and it seems that, no matter what, when I get back for the first time to Y Va Tan, I lose the runes I acquired in the 1st run of the 1st episode. So, to get to the end, I have to play through 1 and 1/5 times(maybe starting from ep.2 would do the trick, have not tested it).
I wrongly assumed I started the whole thing from scratch by accidentally stepping in a skill selection teleport after having completed 1st episode. I now understand that's not the case.
Anyone else has experienced this?
Is it a bug? Am I a bug? Whassup?
#159 posted by negke [88.70.58.203] on 2009/07/29 10:39:54
Which port? Sounds like the same glitch that sometimes happens in id1 Quake.
Negke, I'm Not Sure What You Mean, But...
#160 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2009/07/29 11:52:54
... last run was on a Mac on Fruitz of Dojo's Gl Quake. The previous ones in Fitzquake 0.80.
Experience Travail With Soundtrack
#161 posted by Baker [99.30.141.155] on 2009/11/19 00:43:13
Use:
1. Unofficial modified MP3 tracks supporting FitzQuake 0.85 I made:
http://quakeone.com/proquake/src_o...
2. Download Travail mp3 renamed for above engine and unzip into quake\travail\music
http://www.quake-1.com/files/modfi...
3. Play Travail and experience it with the soundtrack.
Nice
#162 posted by ijed [190.20.114.54] on 2009/11/19 11:22:31
Cool
#163 posted by Scragbait [65.92.69.244] on 2009/11/19 23:59:06
Downloading files now.

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