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Posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/02 20:26:04

This is the thread for the new mapping event being discussed.
UPDATE: Here are the rules for the event:
* All entities/brushfaces inside 768x768
* No teleporting the player
* Deadline july 14 (extended from june 30)
* Single-player
* Playable in Quoth

Link To Previous Discussion
#1 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/02 20:27:28
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Could The 512² Playable...
#2 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/05/02 21:32:51
...area shift on different vertical levels? That is to say, if there is one 512² room on top of another, do they have to line up on the x and z axis, or could they overlap, just so long as it doesn't allow the player any more than 512*512 horizontal movement space at any one time?
How about non-playable area? I assume there could be some detailing through a window that isn't part of the 512² playable area...
#3 posted by negke [82.82.178.98] on 2007/05/02 21:47:07
yes, they have to line up for the sake of consistency. areas outside of the 512² field are allowed of course, as long as the player can't reach them. those could also be used for monsters.
1024² FTW!
#4 posted by Gom Jabbar [80.143.198.202] on 2007/05/02 22:16:33
The 512² idea sounds good to me, I might even join in on the fun. I would recommend extending it to 1024², though. 512² might be a tad to cramped.
One question: Standard Quake, Quoth, something else?
768x768!
#5 posted by bear [80.217.112.226] on 2007/05/02 22:54:02
The golden middle path!
1024...
#6 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/02 22:56:34
I was worried that 1024 might be so big that it wouldn't be much of a restriction... but I guess for a sizable SP map, it might be.
There's also 768²...
#7 posted by Trinca [89.181.65.156] on 2007/05/02 23:17:16
i want to participate!
Hrm
#8 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.98.187] on 2007/05/02 23:46:12
I like the idea posted in the speedmapping thread: one texture
Volume!
#9 posted by generic [71.1.71.84] on 2007/05/03 00:48:40
How about 1024 High x 512 Wide x 512 Deep?
The textures could also be limited to anything non-Base due to the upcoming Base pack.
Well...
#10 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 02:03:09
if we limit the height then that works against the idea of making vertical maps...
What we want is a rule or set of rules that, by restricting one aspect of the map building, encourages people to go another direction in creative ways, and take it as far as they want in that direction. So if we want to encourage vertical maps, we restrict the horizontal, and leave the vertical free.
Same with the "use each entity at least once" idea... we wouldn't restrict people to use each ONLY once because the goal was to explore using underused entities... if we stop you at 1 each, then we're stopping the very thing we were trying to encourage, which is more use of those entities!
#11 posted by Omus [131.227.112.173] on 2007/05/03 05:42:14
'Use each entity at least once' interests me. Does that include every monster/item? What about undocumented entities from the progs? IIRC any function can be called as a spawn function which would be somewhat impractical. Maybe restrict it to all the entities that have a 'QUAKE-ED' comment in the source.
Question...
#12 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/03 07:08:38
if i make a circular tower does it still need to fit within 512x512 or can I make it occupy the same area as a 512x512 square floor would? (i.e 512x512 = PIxR^2 of the circle)
If not it seems we are limited by shape if we want a reasonable floor.
Also, are there any rules as to which way the player should travel in the tower. Down is just as legal as up, right?
Also...
#13 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/03 07:22:40
The areas outside the main floorspace can hold monsters right? By this I mean monsters that could be attacking the player from a distance such as vores, scrags or ogres. Is this ok, or do we need to put all enemies inside the main 512x512 area?
#14 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 07:33:10
Personally I think that every entity and visible brushface should fit inside the square footprint of 512² or 768² or 1024² area. And we should pick the dimensions that feel appropriate for that.
#15 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 07:33:42
I don't think "use every entity" is a good idea.
Do you really want to force mappers to use those rarely seen entities like info_null, info_player_start2, event_lightning and light_fluorospark? Which raises another issue - some entities are theme oriented, like tech sounds versus walltorches. Would that really inspire interesting maps, or just make a mess?
I suggested "use very monster once" because most mappers will have used all of the monsters at least once in some map or other and they will already have some idea how to use them. Limiting it to one of each monster leaves a map population of 13 - small but sufficient for a speedmap - and focuses the mapper's attention more on how to get the most out of each one, instead of struggling to cram them in arbitrarily. Which is what "use every entity" would entail.
Omus:
#16 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 07:34:21
I was assuming we'd use everything with a /*QUAKED */ comment.
Re: Vertical Theme
#17 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 07:45:47
I agree that everything - surfaces and entities - should remian within a footprint of the agreed dimensions.
The size I think depends on how long and involved a project is desired. 512² is good for a one day speedmap. But if you also want to ommit the use of teleporters ( a good idea imo ) then you must allow space for stairs, plats etc. Your mental image of a 512² map probably starts with a room of that size. It's not a bad size for a quake combat. But then to expand the map requires just stacking several such rooms on top of each other, like an office block. Not very good. The limit should allow mappers to also make something smaller than the size limit where appropriate, like narrow shafts for the player to fall through, or spiral stairs.
For a longer, more involved project then I'd say 1024² is better.
Re: Quoth
#18 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 07:51:05
For the "use every monster" theme, obviously having a bestiary twice as large makes for a bigger demand on the mapper. Depends ultimately on the timelimit - speed or turtle?
For anything else, I'd advise using Quoth if, for no other reason - the monster spawning. It really makes things much easier.
And besides, if your intention is to encourage innovative mapping, wouldn't the expanded yet relatively new content of Quoth only help that?
Addendum
#19 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 07:53:35
And you realise, if the vertical theme is the chosen at least one map will be named "The Downward Spiral"..?
Vertical 512x512, Non-base, Quoth
#20 posted by Spirit [84.143.17.193] on 2007/05/03 08:03:39
not every monster, I hate grunt and the usual "base stuff at the start or the end" is just over used... :P
For a timelimit I would say one month.
However, whatever is chosen in the end, I will totally donate one of my runes again for the "winner" (if one is chosen).
Thoughts
#21 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/03 08:08:23
I'm for a 512u^2 floor size because if mappers uses the whole grid height available with that kind of footprint, the maps will really feel like towers. I think 1024^2 is a bit wide.
However, I think it would be nice to be able to have some areas a little bit larger, for example if we wanted to put stairs on the outside of the tower or have a balcony of some kind outside of the main floorspace.
As for using each type of entity at least once, well I'm not to keen on that for the reasons kell states. I want to give my map a theme and don't want to be forced to include grunts or fish etc.
Than
#22 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 09:00:50
I appreciate that the limit cannot be too open without becoming pointless, but:
stairs on the outside of the tower or have a balcony of some kind outside of the main floorspace.
is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be kept inside the horizontal footprint and why I think there needs to be a bit more room than 512². If you allow 'some features' to be built beyond the footprint you're circumventing it even more than just expanding it out to 1024².
Also:
the maps will really feel like towers
is an assumption. Maybe some mappers don't want to build a tower. Just because the theme is "vertical" doesn't mean the result has to be "tower."
The purpose of having a theme is to encourage mappers to build differently from what they would normally build, not to encourage them to build the same as everyone else.
If you introduce rules to try to ensure quality by excluding bad design ideas, all you're really going to achieve is discouraging some ( proabably most ) people entering in the first place. You have to accept that different mappers must be able to interpret the theme differently, even if some of those interpretations end up sucking.
I suggested 1024² to accomadate greater interpretation and variety from the theme, including but not limited to such things as your tower's stairs and balconies.
Kell:
#23 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 09:12:00
Do you really want to force mappers to use those rarely seen entities like info_null, info_player_start2, event_lightning and light_fluorospark? Which raises another issue - some entities are theme oriented, like tech sounds versus walltorches. Would that really inspire interesting maps, or just make a mess?
Actually, I really would want to make people use all the entities. I know some of them might not fit the level in an obvious way, which is why I think it's interesting. What's a light_flourospark doing in a castle? In the quake universe, I can think of all sorts of reasons. Some electrical generator buried in the catacombs by ancient technologists?
info_player_start2, func_episodegate, and info_deathmatch, and a few others were going to be excluded simply becuase they didn't make any sense in a single SP map.
Time Limit Question
#24 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 09:16:53
before we talk about that any further, maybe we should settle on what sort of event we're talking about. People have said "speedmap," "turtlemap," and "one month."
Personally I like the idea of a 1-2 month event becuase I like playing high quality maps more than low quality maps. The only reason to do a shorter time would be if it meant more people would participate.
I think we should decide because some of the ideas being tossed about seem dependent on the length of the event.
Time
#25 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 09:46:15
I reckon 1 month. More than that, and you're getting into serious commitment, map ideas that burgeon into epics, and increasingly likely delays.
What's a light_flourospark doing in a castle? In the quake universe, I can think of all sorts of reasons. Some electrical generator buried in the catacombs by ancient technologists?
Yes I totally agree that such ideas and thinking are cool. Primary reason I like Quake more than other games.
But that ingenuity is going to be required for all the other entities after that, which seems too laborious to yield proper inspiration.
In the case of 'technological disparity' like your generator idea, you could have a theme "base map powercut" where the setting is futuristic but the twist is to disallow anything that would require electricity. Working lights, pneumatic doors etc. Using candles to illuminate vent shafts a la Alien³ Some ideas already occur. But there is a variety of response to the theme, different questions raised as well as different answers.
My point is: your requirement seems too specific.
However, you have made me think a bit more.
What I suggest is that you post a list of all the entities you propose for the theme. That will help everyone clarify their thinking on the idea.
Kell
#26 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/05/03 10:06:12
Maybe the use of Quoth updated mod would motive you and necros a little bit more to deliver ;) .. and also would help the Base Pack to be finished before this new mapping event :P
Any comments on that point ?
Time
#27 posted by negke [82.82.182.73] on 2007/05/03 11:34:43
not more than 1 month - everybody should be able to find some spare time in this period. the actual map is not supposed to be a masterpiece - a few days of mapping should be enough.
i agree 512x512 is a very very confined space, but remember it has to be challenging in a way. i could probably also accept 768. but 1024 is definitely too large (in connection with no vertical limit) in my view. play sm127 http://speedq1.leveldesign.org/fil...
the maps don't have to be towers of course. a theme like this should, however (as kell already mentioned), inspire mappers to really focus on trying to pull off nice brushwork/gameplay within such tight restrictions, instead of just doing a 'regular' vertically oriented map.
dunno about the entity thing. i'm still sceptical about the bosses.
I Still Think Everything Inside 768x768 Is The Best
#28 posted by bear [80.217.112.226] on 2007/05/03 11:40:21
512x512: barely any room for anything interesting if you don't want to rely almost exclusively on lifts (which I guess could still be interesting but it doesn't get me going), stairs/slopes needs some space to gain altitude.
768x768: yay!
1024x1024: Big enough for people to be able to stay in their comfort zone and build much like their used too.
Timelimit: A month or two? Shouldn't be too long to make it into a really big project like Kell wrote but still it can't be too short, many people have other things to do and might not be able to dedicate some time on this if the timespan is too short. For example I have too many things to think about now in May but during the summer I will only a have a full time job to worry about!
Hmm
#29 posted by bear [80.217.112.226] on 2007/05/03 11:46:07
ok, so I forgot about wind tunnels (and water...) when saying when saying 512x512 would be lift paradise.
And Of Course
#30 posted by bear [80.217.112.226] on 2007/05/03 11:50:00
you don't really need any of that if going down...
768²
#31 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/03 12:41:27
Sounds like 768 is gaining support. I agree that it makes a sense; 1024 is perhaps a bit big ( I just jump automatically from one power-of-two to the next. it's a texture artist thing :P )
dunno about the entity thing. i'm still sceptical about the bosses.
Me too. I wouldn't think they should be in it. That's why I asked metlslime for clarification.
Also: are people assuming both the "vertical" and "every entity" themes should be used? I think that's a really bad idea o_0
Maybe the use of Quoth updated mod would motive you and necros a little bit more to deliver ;) .. and also would help the Base Pack to be finished before this new mapping event :P
Any comments on that point ?
Necros sent me the quoth source code after I asked for it in the base pack thread. He's not working on quoth now because he's too busy.
I need a replacment coder. I'll post about it in the base pack thread.
Kell
#32 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/05/03 13:02:09
Thanks for the feedback ;)
#33 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/03 16:27:35
1 month sounds better for me, since it'll take me more time to get some mapping done for Quake.
Vertical thing sounds good, why not just have something like any range up to and including 1024 for horizontal limit?
I don't like using every entity at least once or exactly once or any once.
I do like Quoth requirements.
Hrmm.
#34 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/05/03 16:34:55
I think the longer the theme gets discussed, the less inspirational it's going to be. So before anything else, perhaps there should be a 'deadline' for formulating the rules. Once that deadline has passed, the guidelines will be set in stone and there won't be any irritating little changes and disputes as there were at the beginning of the base pack.
Personally I think we could finalize the specifics within twelve hours, which would allow everybody to get started safe in the knowledge that they know what they're doing.
I like 768 with a limit on teleporters [like they only work horizontally or vertically]. I also think that it should be OK for any entities other than the player to exist outside of the agreed floorspace.
2 Cents
#35 posted by ionous [129.63.205.141] on 2007/05/03 16:52:47
I don't know about everyone else, but due to finals, i probably wouldn't even be able to start until late May.
Perhaps a first of July deadline could accomodate this nicely?
Oh yeah, and if the idea for a map i had ends up working out, Kell's "R'lyeh" skybox is going to get some usage.
2 Cents
#36 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.201.246] on 2007/05/03 18:54:57
768 x 768, with the player contained within that i.e. no stairs or lifts outside of that area
all 'floor' levels to be above or below each other i.e. no offsetting a higher or lower floor to give extra width
skyboxes OK
floating levels OK (stairs, lifts, jumping down, no teleporting)
teleporting the player forbidden
teleporting monsters OK using the standard out of sight room (player can't get there)
end of June deadline
all entites from the standard QUAKED set to be used at least once, except non-SP types and the two bosses, which will not be used at all
no restriction on the number of times any entity can be used
standard progs.dat
info_null 'tricks' OK to use
free choice of textures
no skill settings
minimum 50 monsters, maximum 100
If Spirit Is Offering A Prize
#37 posted by R.P.G. [75.183.9.100] on 2007/05/03 19:10:28
then Spirit sets the rules.
Rules...
#38 posted by necros [99.244.63.59] on 2007/05/03 20:24:58
i'd say something simple like:
* the height of the map must be 2x it's width minimum.
so if your map is 800 in width, it has to be at least 1600 high.
Okay...
#39 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 20:40:39
i don't think we should mix too many rules. I'm leaning towards:
* all entities/brushfaces inside 768x768
* no teleporting the player
* deadline june 30
* standard progs.dat
We shouldn't pile too many ideas or unrelated restrictions into one event.
Oh...
#40 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/03 20:41:19
maybe goes without saying but:
* single player
Yeah
#41 posted by negke [82.83.27.230] on 2007/05/03 20:45:02
sounds good to me.
Yes.
#42 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/05/03 20:45:06
i don't think we should mix too many rules. I'm leaning towards:
* all entities/brushfaces inside 768x768
* no teleporting the player
* deadline june 30
* standard progs.dat
We shouldn't pile too many ideas or unrelated restrictions into one event.
Nice and simple. I like it.
Yay
#43 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.135] on 2007/05/03 21:58:50
i'm in.
(and i am not making any rules :o )
Ja
#44 posted by Gom Jabbar [80.143.245.61] on 2007/05/03 22:04:41
What metlslime said!
Let's see if I can get something done...
Ok
#45 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/04 00:16:34
but I'm using quoth
Quoth
#46 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/04 00:18:47
Would be stupendous!
I Am With Stupendous!
#47 posted by generic [71.1.71.84] on 2007/05/04 00:27:52
And "in" otherwise ;-)
Wot Wot
#48 posted by R.P.G. [75.183.9.100] on 2007/05/04 00:38:08
the height of the map must be 2x it's width minimum
Except some asshat is going to get the idea to make just a really fucking tall skybox. "What, it's playable area."
but I'm using quoth
Everyone else should, too.
Eh
#49 posted by megaman [84.63.37.237] on 2007/05/04 01:51:06
I think tps are pretty vital :/
Also
#50 posted by megaman [84.63.37.237] on 2007/05/04 01:53:11
I don't really get WHY you want to forbid tp use - does it have anything to do with the vertical thing at all? you could always gain height fast with a fast plat... I don't get it. Teleporters allow for nicer backtracking routes and all...gah
I Think
#51 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/04 02:01:16
It's to limit the type of layout you can do. Instead of just breaking up your vertical map, you have to actually plan how the player continuously travels up and down. It's just to force you to be creative that way.
So...
#52 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/04 02:21:43
I'm okay with using quoth instead of id1... if everyone agrees with it then I have no complaint.
This time let's not base the maps on unreleased features of quoth though :)
Question
#53 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.98.187] on 2007/05/04 02:26:41
* all entities/brushfaces inside 768x768
All, including teleport-able monsters?
Yeah...
#54 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/04 03:14:36
just stick them way down below the level, or high above it :)
Ray
#55 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/04 03:46:29
if we use Quoth, the teleportable monster thing is no problem as you can just place them when you want them to appear.
I'm in btw.
Grr... as if I don't have enough other maps to finish :)
Or...
#56 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/04 03:48:40
as Metlslime mentioned, you could start the monsters above or below somewhere. I just had the thought that you could even spawn them optionally with buttons marked in a certain way so that the player knows that they will spawn a monster by pressing a button, but by not pressing the button they will have to face more monsters at the same time near the end of the level. Or something.
Anyway, I'm in agreement with Metl's suggested rules.
K...
#57 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/05/04 03:57:08
...768^2, no player tele, june 30, quoth.
I'm in.
Okay, If Everyone Agrees, I'll Update The Thread Title/text
#58 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/04 04:00:45
Also...
#59 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/04 04:10:31
just in case there is any ambiguity, all visible polygons need to be inside the 768, so if a brush sticks out, it's okay as long as the "filloutside" process removes all those polygons that stick out. Does that sound fair and consistent with what people were thinking? (I just don't want to force people to have like 1-unit-thick outer walls for the purpose of maximizing space.)
Metslime
#60 posted by ijed [201.222.203.213] on 2007/05/04 04:19:40
maybe put 768x768x4096 - for clarification.
This looks to be a good idea backed by good mappers, anticipating june 30+.
Ijed...
#61 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/04 14:22:17
you can build from -4096 to 4096 so the total height of your map could be 8192 :)
768x768 presumably means a square area of grid in which you can build as opposed to a total floor surface area of 768^2, right? I guess that is ok.
Yeah But,
#62 posted by ijed [201.236.69.154] on 2007/05/04 15:42:32
Anything above the 0 plane is a bit too close to heaven for Quake.
#63 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/04 17:52:49
For anything else, I'd advise using Quoth if, for no other reason - the monster spawning. It really makes things much easier.
sorry to derail the thread here.. but just out of interest how easy would it be to add the monster spawning code to an existing progs.dat?
Helpful Reminder
#64 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.1] on 2007/05/04 19:05:36
http://www.celephais.net/board/for...
Permanent Threads
General Abuse
Inspiration & Reference
Jobs & Mappers Wanted
Mapping Help <---- Bingo!
Screenshots & Betas
Well..
#65 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/04 19:40:16
i thought it might be relevant here.. considering the monster spawning seemed to be the only reason people were rooting for the quoth progs. i guess not!
No
#66 posted by Vigil [91.152.72.143] on 2007/05/04 19:45:17
There are only 6000 posts in that thread, it'll be quick.
Quoth has lots of cool new stuff besides simpler monster spawns, so it'd provide more varied maps with new tricks and new baddies to kill. A lot of the info_null wankery is in Quoth and made much easier, for example (I think).
#67 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/05 01:24:22
Who's going with what theme? I plan on going metal. Also, is there going to be a start map or are we just going to release a pack of separate maps? Just curious.
#68 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/05 01:56:08
No start map. It's not like base pack or chapters where the maps are intended to be thematically bound. I'd suggest making the trigger_changelevel point to start.bsp
Also, I'd suggest naming the maps 768yournick.bsp
e.g. 768zwei, 768ionous, 768ijed, 768kell etc.
Makes it easier to group them in /maps folder, easier to remember what to type at the console, and easier to search for them in a few months time when they inevitably go missing from whatever archive they were supposed to be being hosted on :P
#69 posted by ionous [70.19.210.241] on 2007/05/05 04:42:06
My plan is to use the Heretic 2 green R'lyeh textures.
No Start Map?
#70 posted by Lunaran [76.201.159.177] on 2007/05/05 05:48:37
I'd think a start map confined to the same grid space would be amusing, especially considering the no slipgate rule.
Not that I'm volunteering to make one.
Hehe
#71 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/05 06:56:53
I'm with Lun on that. A start map would be sweet.
I'm planning on making an egyptian themed map for this just as soon as I fix up my crap dm map and release it.
I Wouldn't Mind One Either
#72 posted by negke [82.83.35.149] on 2007/05/05 09:10:25
then again it would require the pack to be put in an extra folder for start.bsp to work, or some awkward tricking to strip the player of all weapons/ammo each time.
also depends on many maps are submitted in the end.
Er...
#73 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/05 14:29:48
or just name the start map something like 768start and put episodegates at the end of eac... oh, that would print loads of text, wouldn't it. hmm. I think Preach mentioned a trick to strip weapons from the player a while ago, maybe we could use that.
#74 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2007/05/05 18:55:31
oh god... a than dm map.. ohhhh!
Than
#75 posted by negke [82.83.35.149] on 2007/05/05 22:12:44
yes, all weapons and ammo could be easily removed with the backpacktouch hack, but the player would still keep his armor.
Oh
#76 posted by negke [82.83.35.149] on 2007/05/05 23:21:57
i just realized the rules say all maps have to be quoth-compatible. this way, everything will be alright if 768start has "lose_items" enabled in worldspawn.
Good Old Quoth
#77 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/06 04:02:42
that's handy :)
Hm
#78 posted by ijed [201.222.205.219] on 2007/05/06 05:10:55
I'm not in, but for to spend in order two pennies more, it would be nice to see a start map. Quoth handles the weaponstrip (as mentioned), its just a case of someone putting it together.
June 30th.
How are those on-board approaching this? Like a slightly more involved turtlemap? Or more involved? It's an interesting challenge, just don't know how much leeway I have after the pack I'm always talking about is finished.
Ha! Did it again, did you spot?
:|
Haven't Started Yet But...
#79 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/06 08:29:40
I'd imagine this will be challenging because of the spatial limitations but at the same time quite straightforward because we all have a basic layout to work with from the start... a tall square which the player needs to move up or down (or both I guess). That's simplifying it a bit, but that's kind of how I am looking at it :)
I should probably work on my basepack map a little bit before starting this actually, it's just that I am a little sick of it (and its vis glitches) at the moment.
So Many Ideas In My Head :)
#80 posted by Spirit [80.171.95.15] on 2007/05/07 21:52:05
Who's gonna be judge then? As it is called competition there should be a ranking in the end.
And as I said I will donate one of my runes for the winner. :)
Spirit:
#81 posted by R.P.G. [75.183.9.100] on 2007/05/08 01:43:24
Donor decides. Good luck!
Judge Has To Be Someone Who Isn't Participating Obviously
#82 posted by negke [82.83.32.194] on 2007/05/08 07:47:38
then again, i guess you can send the rune to than right away :)
Yeah
#83 posted by Spirit [80.171.95.15] on 2007/05/08 09:23:46
I am participating.
.
#84 posted by generic [71.1.68.219] on 2007/05/08 13:42:52
<cough>Shambler</cough>... if he is still 'round ;-)
Some Kind Of Voting?
#85 posted by bear [130.242.7.250] on 2007/05/08 13:57:27
Fore example that everyone that participates votes on their favorite (but can't vote on their own).
Bear
#86 posted by gone [87.249.61.2] on 2007/05/08 15:55:11
Good idea but
what if I make 2 maps (I wont make any cause I dont like the rules, but what if) do I get 2 voices?
Make It Like Classical Music Competitions
#87 posted by bambuz [193.167.6.59] on 2007/05/08 21:06:12
if the honorable judges think the level of the entries is too low, the first price is not given to anyone.
Question:
#88 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/11 02:52:22
I just want to clarify - so we can't have stairs that slide out from the wall? If we want stairs they have to slide out from within the 768x768 barrier? Just wondering before I go and design my map any farther.
Zwiffle
#89 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/05/11 05:35:51
everything has to fit inside a 768x768 footprint. Everything.
|
#90 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/05/11 05:44:27
fascists!
Whatiffle...
#91 posted by generic [68.35.250.145] on 2007/05/11 16:22:08
Could the stairs start inside of the 768x768 footprint, slide outside on the start of the map, and then back inside when triggered later?
Generic
#92 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/11 16:54:18
it would leak unless you built some solid geometry that was outside of the footprint to contain the moving stairs. It's pretty much impossible to do without breaking the rules I think.
Unless you don't mind the map leaking...
Then again, if it leaks, there will be more brush faces outside the area, and technically the play area will also extend into the void.
#93 posted by Zwiffle [67.53.148.10] on 2007/05/11 16:59:35
I didn't think brush entities caused the map to leak, only point entities. I am confused.
. . .
#94 posted by ijed [190.82.47.12] on 2007/05/11 17:10:48
I usually just recess the wall slightly (16) to give the walkway / stairs something to rest in, then send the func_door outside with its start open and toggle flags set, as well as -1 clsoe time and 0 lip - doesn't leak.
Erm..
#95 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/11 17:24:19
but how would you use the stairs if they are outside the map?
..maybe I misunderstood what was wanted :)
If you want the stairs to come into the map from the walls then you would build them in the map, making them open towards the walls and then tick the "starts open" flag to make them start outside the level and come in when triggered. Not sure if that is legal, but I think it's ok personally. Best get metl or someone to verify.
Than
#96 posted by negke [85.176.93.127] on 2007/05/11 18:32:49
yes, that's what generic meant (startopen flag). there is no reason why this shouldn't be legal unless we wanted to get superanal about the interpretation of the rules.
the monster teleporter rooms don't have to be within the footprint either. the restriction exclusively affects the play area. (btw. have we agreed about unreachable 'detail areas' outside of the footprint?)
Exactly, Neg!ke...
#97 posted by generic [68.35.250.145] on 2007/05/11 19:56:44
I am all about keeping the player and the majority of the brushwork within the 768x768 footprint. But, I think allowing monsters and other entities -- even non-navigable brushwork -- beyond say a window sounds good too.
Suggestion To Ammend The Rules Slightly
#98 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/12 07:38:53
I think sky brushes should be allowed to go outside the 768 region. By this I mean that the visible face is within the 768 space we are allowed, but the other faces (which are culled in Fitzquake anyway) can be within a larger range. This is so that we can have open air sections in our maps without having to worry about grenades bouncing off the sky etc. Remember we are trying to encourage creativity within certain constraints but not force mappers to abandon or hugely limit certain ideas that might be really cool because of a quirk in Quake.
Playable areas, or even areas where monsters can be seems like it might be a little out of the spirit of the competition though.
I Also
#99 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/05/12 10:35:42
would like to be able to have my func_doors slide outside the confines of the map. Primarily because I'm at a point of the design in which if some bars don't go outside the map they're going to get in the way somewhere else. :P It's highly annoying. Though I suppose that's part of the challenge. I suppose I could chop each bar in to a load of very little bars and change the 'lip' settings so that they all slide in to one another. I'm thinking that would look really weird though.
Metl! Help!
#100 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/12 17:04:15
Please can you clarify the rules in relation to what, if anything, is allowed to go outside of the 768 footprint. I vote for AT LEAST func entities and sky brushes. I can't think of anything else right now, but maybe someone will point out something else soon :)
FOR GOD'S SAKE NOTHING
#101 posted by Lunaran [76.201.159.177] on 2007/05/12 18:45:37
JUST BUILD INSIDE THE SQUARE
Bleh
#102 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/12 19:29:27
not even sky brush volumes or funcs that clip through the walls? That's a bit shit I reckon. I'm going to adhere to the rules except on those points IF I feel it is justified and forfeit any prize if it is decided they go against the rules.
Or I could just make solid sky which shots hit, rockets explode and grenades bounce off just to abide by the rules. I suppose it isn't that bad really. Maybe just bring the sky in 1 unit from the 768 box or something (though it wouldn't solve the grenade issue).
Guess we'll just have to think hard about how to get our moving platforms etc. working nicely without making stuff out of hundreds of separate funcs.
That's
#103 posted by megaman [84.63.92.232] on 2007/05/12 20:56:21
what you get with technical limitations ;?
If I Was Making A Map For This (which I'm Not)
#104 posted by czg [83.253.253.215] on 2007/05/13 00:51:18
I'd just place clip brushes that fill up the entire grid but form a 768*768 hole in the middle. After that anything goes.
Sooooo...
#105 posted by distrans [121.44.1.131] on 2007/05/13 05:30:44
...want to have that guys babies.
Re: Than/zwiffle
#106 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/05/13 08:50:58
I just want to clarify - so we can't have stairs that slide out from the wall?
Okay, Func_ entities can leave the 768 square play area during gameplay, but must fit inside the square when placed in the editor.
I think sky brushes should be allowed to go outside the 768 region. By this I mean that the visible face is within the 768 space we are allowed, but the other faces (which are culled in Fitzquake anyway) can be within a larger range.
Yeah, I think this is acceptable because the visible faces are within the limits, and the inside of a sky brush is solid to players.
Func_ Entities Can Leave The 768 Square Play
#107 posted by gone [87.249.61.2] on 2007/05/14 12:10:08
then you could make expanding walls to create more room
Speed:
#108 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/05/14 12:55:01
no, because the worldspawn brushes still need to bound the 768 space. if a func leaves the square, you can't see it or touch it.
Crap :(
#109 posted by gone [87.249.61.2] on 2007/05/14 19:32:20
:(
However
#110 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/05/14 22:18:26
you could in theory create a room within a room that is actually a func_door and slides out of the outer room when you pass through a corridor or go to another floor, thus opening up another space. Although the new room would probably have to be pretty sparse.
Um
#111 posted by R.P.G. [75.183.9.100] on 2007/05/15 04:05:54
Maybe it's the booze talking, but doesn't all this assume the map compiles without leaks? Otherwise yeah, you could easily construct a map where all faces are inside 768x768 during compile, but they greatly expand to a much larger playing field after the map loads.
Well
#112 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.98.187] on 2007/05/15 05:35:19
I don't know why there's so much discussion of the specific rules, why not go the speedmapping way and say if someone bends/breaks the rules, oh well, that's on them, it's not the end of the world anyways.
(If I can find some time, I'm gonna try to make a map for this! But thats a big *if*)
Leaky Map
#113 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/05/15 07:05:50
you could have a leaky map, but if you did that, the outside faces would not be culled and you would get less space to work with inside in order to keep solids inside of the space. Either that or go func_crazy and have the level expand from a small box room at the start to a giant tower.
Also, if you move entities outside of the 768*768 space, they won't get lit correctly (are they fulldark or fullbright?) and if anything falls down below the map will break.
Ha
#114 posted by Spirit [80.171.95.43] on 2007/05/15 08:04:43
My map will have everything inside 768x768. Cool, eh?
HA!
#115 posted by Vigil [91.152.72.143] on 2007/05/15 11:02:59
My protest competition map will have nothing inside the 768x768, and how cool is that?
Protest ?
#116 posted by gone [87.249.61.2] on 2007/05/15 12:04:52
We`ll call Riot Police on you!
For All You Haters...
#117 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/15 20:17:35
we'll have a Horizontal Map Competition next time!
Sarky Question
#118 posted by R.P.G. [75.183.9.100] on 2007/05/15 22:40:07
we'll have a Horizontal Map Competition next time!
Can I build higher than 768 as long as the player can't reach it?
No
#119 posted by negke [82.82.168.50] on 2007/05/16 07:18:09
max height 64
Neg!ke...
#120 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/05/16 13:08:02
so mappers only have from -4096 to 64 in which to build their maps? THAT SUCKS.
;)
Than
#121 posted by negke [82.82.185.217] on 2007/05/16 13:20:53
for the horizontal map competition of course
Actually...
#122 posted by negke [82.82.185.217] on 2007/05/16 13:24:10
compromise: diagonal map. a giant slope!
Btw
#123 posted by gone [87.249.61.2] on 2007/05/16 19:31:22
768 is like 3,5 jumps distance
yay for cramped
But Speeds,
#124 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/16 23:32:00
Thats a 8192 -floor / ceiling width to fall (or fly) in.
Okay...
#125 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/05/17 01:52:37
if anyone is seriously considering making a map that doesn't leak so that they can have a bunch of func_doors expand and create a horizontal map, I will make a new rule: your map must be sealed.
Hi
#126 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/05/25 10:48:54
Hi I want to participate too. what do I need?
#127 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/25 15:28:24
An editor - QuArK, Worldcraft or one of the others, I'd say those are probably the most popular.
You'll need some compile tools, the best ones are by AguirRe:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Who also has alot of documentation that'll help if you get stuck.
The readmes in the editors will tell you how to set it up and there are quite alot of sites for editing as well, most are only archives now but still useful - there's links all over Q1 sites.
Any other problems try the Mapping Help thread here and you'll probably get a landslide of answers.
Then build a map . . .
Good Luck.
#128 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/05/25 15:41:38
No, I ment do I have to register somewhere, or Where should I upload the map or to whom should I send the map...
Rudi...
#129 posted by distrans [211.31.114.169] on 2007/05/25 16:14:37
...Spirit over at Quaddicted would probably pop your map up for download. Why not approach him http://www.quaddicted.com/
Distrans
#130 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/05/25 16:30:23
Thanks
So I don't have to register
Just upload and post the link?
#131 posted by negke [82.82.167.118] on 2007/05/25 16:51:46
someone will collect all maps and pack them up when the time has come. it hasn't been decided yet who that is. (metlslime)
Rudi...
#132 posted by distrans [211.31.114.169] on 2007/05/25 17:20:01
...don't make the link public, as neg!ke said... someone will call for it at some stage.
One Month Left!
#133 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/06/02 08:19:11
Just to remind people. I sometimes forget what month it is.
Meh...
#134 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/06/12 07:34:39
...I know I said I was in but crossing T's and dotting I's on the Travail mission has been taking all my Quake-time. I must beg off, unfortunately.
Good luck to those still in.
Meh
#135 posted by negke [82.82.175.100] on 2007/06/12 12:35:15
Time is against me as well. Not sure if I can finish my barely started map until the end of June. Probably not...
:/
#136 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/06/12 12:40:21
yeah, not much time either. Also need to do some basepack stuff...
fuck, I have too many unfinished maps to finish.
#137 posted by Spirit [80.171.52.63] on 2007/06/12 13:32:48
I will finish my map even if it will suck or be "unfinished" or whatever! I haven't started with entities yet and the brushwork is rather boring. I need inspiration for egypt-tech-scifi-stuff. :\
Hmm..
#138 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/06/12 18:48:22
I haven't started mine yet... would you guys be dissapointed if I just worked on Rubicon2 instead?
#139 posted by Trinca [89.180.152.84] on 2007/06/12 19:55:50
mine will depend of time the size... if time short will be smaller if time bigger i might add some more rooms u guys decide!
Spirit
#140 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.6] on 2007/06/12 21:15:55
watch Stargate and 5th Element :-)
Check Out Miles Davis
#141 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.66] on 2007/06/12 22:23:43
and Parliament-Funkadelic album covers from the early-mid Seventies for a groovier Egypto\PanAfrican Science Fiction vibe than you would get from standard cable fair.
#142 posted by JohnXmas [83.78.52.206] on 2007/06/13 00:36:06
Metl (and Rubicon2) for President!
No Offense
#143 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2007/06/13 01:40:59
to the 5th Element, visualy stimulating, but shown so many times on cable television it has become a bit of a known commodity.
Unlike...
#144 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/06/13 02:21:18
ancient egypt.
#145 posted by Trinca [89.180.152.84] on 2007/06/13 03:36:47
ancient egypt is one map i will make for sure when i got more expiriençe
I Haven't Seen
#146 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2007/06/13 03:51:04
anyone make the Egyptian Underworld's River of Shit from Mailer's Ancient Evening's yet. Just set dung02_1 to *dung02_1 and voila!
I Wonder
#147 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2007/06/13 03:52:31
what I intended Ancient Evenings to be in pocession of there.
Ancient Egypt
#148 posted by PuLSaR [62.183.2.84] on 2007/06/13 06:12:31
what about base maps with tons of ankhs and scarabs?
#149 posted by Trinca [89.181.6.76] on 2007/06/14 22:34:26
so release date? will be the same?
Well...
#150 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/06/15 04:06:27
let's hear whoever is is actually making a map speak up and tell us how you're doing.
It's Going
#151 posted by lurker [67.33.163.60] on 2007/06/15 07:30:24
It's cramped, but it is progressing. No Quoth ents are planned.
Area and encounter planning is about 90% completed, blocking out the areas and testing maneuverability has ~2 large rooms to go. Lighting/ent placement is not started and texture theme is not yet finalized.
Overall entity placement should be very quick due to the planning, and I tend to light faster than I make brushwork.
Finding time is not easy, but I shall do my best!
#152 posted by Trinca [89.181.6.76] on 2007/06/15 08:55:56
i finish it to on time!
:)
#153 posted by Spirit [213.39.204.167] on 2007/06/15 14:16:02
My map will be short and small and I am doing fine.
#154 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/06/15 20:17:39
How high are your maps going to be?
Mine is currently about 3000
#155 posted by Trinca [89.180.34.102] on 2007/06/15 21:10:20
3312 mine ;) and will not grow more!!!
Not Happening
#156 posted by ionous [70.22.128.71] on 2007/06/19 17:36:51
I can't seem to work around the technical limitations, as it has killed every idea i've tried to flesh out in the editor. I'm out. Good luck to everyone else.
#157 posted by Trinca [89.180.119.140] on 2007/06/19 19:49:20
mine is almost finish more 5 or 6 hours of mapping and it´s done!
where should i sent map?
metlslime put adress in topic!!!
Trinca:
#158 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/06/19 20:36:51
We can figure that out soon. I guess I'll probably be the one collecting them. If you have webspace, I'd ask you to upload it there and mail the URL to me. If not, I'll have to figure out another way becuase I'd rather not get a bunch of maps in my mailbox.
#159 posted by Trinca [89.180.119.140] on 2007/06/19 20:59:24
sure i can upload! i think i will finish it friday, becouse i start on vacacion on saturday :p and SUMMER wants me ;) so beach beach beach... all day no time to Quake
Heh...
#160 posted by generic [98.192.129.54] on 2007/06/21 19:03:48
I'd rather not get a bunch of maps in my mailbox
It doesn't look like that is going to be much of a problem after all :)
I won't have a map ready for the competition either for the same reasons mentioned before -- and for a few that I hold near and dear to my heart and refuse to share ;)
Based On People's Responses:
#161 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/06/21 20:48:50
Probably going to make it:
* trinca
* spirit
* rudl
* lurker
Unsure:
* neg!ke
* than
Damned quitters:
* distrans
* ionous
* generic_maps
* metlslime
Deadline Extension?
#162 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/06/21 20:55:14
So, if extending the deadline a small amount (a week or two) would mean more maps, maybe we should do it. But I think it's up to the people who are mapping to decide whether that's okay.
What do you guys think?
Ok
#163 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.92] on 2007/06/21 21:34:14
would be ok for me as i haven't done much the past days.
I'm Up For It
#164 posted by negke [82.83.51.11] on 2007/06/21 21:34:44
Extending the deadline by two weeks would be nice. Though I still couldn't tell for sure if I'm able to finish the map by then.
#165 posted by Trinca [89.180.191.46] on 2007/06/21 22:25:19
my map is ready :p lazy bitches ;) but i can wait of course you guys decide ;)
Also Okay
#166 posted by lurker [65.83.192.192] on 2007/06/22 08:49:10
Extending the deadline by a week or two is fine by me.
#167 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/06/22 09:14:07
I can live with another one or two weeks too
Base Pack Syndrom ?
#168 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/06/22 09:30:47
o_O
#169 posted by Trinca [89.180.141.33] on 2007/06/22 19:49:07
true JPL :\ let´s hope release will be in next 6 month...
metlslime will not let ;)
Finished
#170 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/06/24 16:05:34
Who wants to beta-test it ? (and is not involved in this competition)
#171 posted by Trinca [89.181.15.167] on 2007/06/24 17:26:07
i want it ;) email me!!!
Nice Try Trinca
#172 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/06/24 19:43:34
..,but you are participating too (even if you have finished your map)
I'll Test It For Ya.
#173 posted by Orl [70.104.67.50] on 2007/06/24 19:58:05
Orl
#174 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/06/24 20:23:33
a mail has just been sent to you
#175 posted by Trinca [89.181.15.167] on 2007/06/24 20:33:56
rudl neg!ke beta test mine :p and he is on the event :p
Rudl...
#176 posted by the silent [213.188.221.74] on 2007/06/25 13:34:29
...count me in!
The Silent
#177 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/06/25 22:02:54
I have to do some fixes-> I will update it in the next few days.
Do you want to final-beta-test it?
Sure, Rudl...
#178 posted by the silent [84.222.239.155] on 2007/06/26 01:03:59
I'd love it! Drop me a line when you're ready! Thanks!
#179 posted by Trinca [89.181.121.222] on 2007/06/26 20:09:21
so will be delay one week or two?
Just In Case It Makes A Difference...
#180 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/06/27 05:41:17
...it looks like Travail will go up on the 9th July.
OKay...
#181 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/06/27 08:59:56
I guess I'll just make a call here. Deadline is extended 2 weeks, new deadline is July 14th. hopefully we'll get at least another map out of that.
When the time is right, you can upload the map somewhere and email me the URL, and I'll assemble it and upload it.
Metlslime
#182 posted by Trinca [89.181.54.22] on 2007/07/02 20:47:49
u got new mail!!!
Longl
#183 posted by bambuz [193.167.6.139] on 2007/07/03 16:35:29
Since I have no internet at home, I sketched some mapestry after midnight...
I might not do a serious participation, but perchance some bonus map. :)
#184 posted by Trinca [89.180.93.150] on 2007/07/04 03:14:59
got it or not?
Trinca:
#185 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/04 03:38:01
Yeah, i got it. Thanks.
Orl, The Silent
#186 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/10 18:20:53
I've sent you the final-beta
All Right Rudl.
#187 posted by the silent [213.188.221.74] on 2007/07/11 08:40:36
Just seen it.
I'll give it a whirl tonight and send you some feedback by tomorrow.
Thanks.
Just A Reminder...
#188 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/12 00:18:51
deadline is this saturday. When you are ready, upload the map somewhere and email me with the URL. I will assemble the pack.
As Already Mentioned
#189 posted by negke [82.83.21.202] on 2007/07/12 00:32:45
my map won't make it until the deadline. It will be released separately in the end of July or whenever I actually manage to finish it.
Neg!ke (or Neg|ke)
#190 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/12 00:41:07
Did you change the spelling of your name?
Anyway it's good to know you will still finish it. It's good to have more map releases.
Check's In The Mail
#191 posted by lurker [65.83.195.103] on 2007/07/14 11:39:59
Sent to the e-mail address at u.washington.edu .
#192 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/07/14 21:01:34
Sent a mail too
Hnnnng
#193 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.71] on 2007/07/14 22:02:07
almost there, I got time until midnight somewhere, have I? :D
Spirit:
#194 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/14 22:26:23
yeah, till midnight is fine :)
Aaaaaaaah, I Can't See This Map Anymore
#195 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.71] on 2007/07/14 23:49:14
sent away!
Looking Forward To The Pack
#196 posted by negke [82.82.191.207] on 2007/07/15 02:02:13
A pity I couldn't make it. Some meaningless WIP shot: http://negative.net.tc/images/768w...
Looking Sweet!
#197 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/07/15 04:06:04
can't wait to play that map and the pack.
Thanks Everyone...
#198 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/15 12:00:11
I got all your maps. I'll get the pack together and upload later today, hopefully.
Pack Is Released:
#199 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/16 07:28:34
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Ggffdgbfdgf
#200 posted by dfsfggsfsgf [122.108.111.72] on 2009/05/29 07:40:57
cvddszssbgfygfrghrdfvdfs
Veronica Bui Love Cat
#201 posted by veronica bui [122.108.111.72] on 2009/05/29 07:53:32
veronica kissing mama and baba and i]['.mmh.b oknfglcgkl,tlkughdkr,loypktplhgfdo jhopiaeztuerz;oyjhwoeln uy0b[3w2up3wa4byoijny;lewuynw4ajgm... oenby kjnew4a mpoyt4wjn4yojsenoym 4yoij6iojrestnyje5jnu lesjn o5euonp5juoypjp5uynejep6junjiu6o 54u nyp5uny3spo
Veronica Bui Love Cat
#202 posted by veronica bui [122.108.111.72] on 2009/05/29 07:53:33
veronica kissing mama and baba and i]['.mmh.b oknfglcgkl,tlkughdkr,loypktplhgfdo jhopiaeztuerz;oyjhwoeln uy0b[3w2up3wa4byoijny;lewuynw4ajgm... oenby kjnew4a mpoyt4wjn4yojsenoym 4yoij6iojrestnyje5jnu lesjn o5euonp5juoypjp5uynejep6junjiu6o 54u nyp5uny3spo
Busterd
#203 posted by spy [89.218.0.37] on 2009/05/29 08:08:50
Hmm
#204 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/05/29 12:30:29
Sounds hawt
Encrypted Message...
#205 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/05/29 16:00:54
... sucks !
Goatse Hex Encoding?
#206 posted by megaman [94.221.114.145] on 2009/05/30 22:47:59

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