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|  | New Q1 Map "VeniVidiFuzzi".

Posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/25 23:12:21

To make the Q-Annivers2010 a little present here my support to the unbreakable Quake One game!
A fine Greece medieval map, shaped up with the hexen wad, some new flavoured monsters, and an ache in my head. Grab it if you can, catch me on the less spiking wits of a few homs and quicksand, that punched me untill I gave up.
Rather large level, I only testedit in Fitzquake, but as I succeeded to stay below the 32672 clipnodes this baby is free to go!
download:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/veni0...
screenies:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/veni0...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/gimli...
demo:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/vevif...
- QUAKE ONE FOR EVER -

#1 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/26 01:00:25
took me about a half hour to beat it. i was all ready to use the trick that neg mentioned about resuming demos after death but i ended up not dying, so no problems there. :P
nothing really bad about this except one thing that really annoyed me: impulse 12 which calls the CycleWeaponReverseCommand() was broken. there have been a few mods here and there that break this and it's incredibly annoying. there's no reason to break CycleWeaponReverseCommand() as it's sole purpose is cycle weapons and doesn't do anything else.
oh, also, got lost about half way through shortly after the silver key door. there are steps on the right side when you enter that circular area and i didn't see them at all the first time through. to be honest, they are very difficult to see. should have been some lights or something to sort of show you where to go.
still, after that things smoothed out again.
some nice areas like the street and the cavern and the other large areas with the ruined buildings. some plain areas too though, but not that many. i liked the cave and the mdl rocks in there didn't bother me.
new monsters gave good fights. skeleton was probably the best of the normal monsters but the archer knights were ok too. the shooting animation for the archer knights looked a little iffy, but that's not too bad as they are usually sniping at you anyway.
last boss was cool, although i couldn't figure out how to avoid the lightning attack. i had tons of health and the red armor so it wasn't really a problem. it basically just gives you a time limit to kill it before the lightning wears you down. this could be an interesting gameplay mechanic, actually...... (or was that your intent all along?)
first run demo:
http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/...
thanks :)
CycleWeaponReverseCommand()
#2 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/07/26 03:44:16
Wasn't in Quake 1.01 (was only added around 1.05 iirc), so mods based on the 1.01 source don't have it.
Oh That's What That Is.
#3 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/26 19:02:04
Fun.
#4 posted by Mandel [80.217.68.46] on 2010/07/26 20:08:22
I had a good time playing this map. 33:14 on easy skill, 126/145 kills, 1/4 secrets. Demo here: http://mandelmassa.net/temp/sparcu... (1.5 MB, dz).
Quite unique environment and some good fights. Only a few times was I low on ammo, most of the time there was plenty to spare. I like it when it's not super impossible to finish a map. My greek isn't as good as one might expect, so I didn't understand any of those messages :) You should have created a custom font with the greek alphabet as well, hehe.
The new custom monsters weren't too annoying, and it was nice to see a custom boss! I was lucky enough to have some quad and cells left when I met him, so I didn't have any big problems with the destoning.
Overall the layout had me running around cluelessly a few times, but never to a point where it became annoying; the varying environments made it interesting. In the end I may just have to blame my terrible sense of direction for my getting lost.
I played in JoeQuake and it didn't bring any problems, other than a lack of custom skybox and fog.
They, Who Will Die Soon, Greet You!
#5 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/26 23:11:01
Yes, the demo tip of Ijed sure has it advances.
I didn't get so lucky, so I had to make the demo in two parts.
I do realize now that the staires in the castlepart were a little lost, I corrected this with a torch in the download, as well as some megahealth. It is a little weird to see three doors opening without one that is usefull for the gameflow. But I thought it couldn't be bad to attract the player to wander somehow around.
I really don't know where the cycleweaponcommand was or has gone, I've been crooking the QC a lot to get granito done, and there after was the crosbow knight with its arrow. Maybe I've screwed something up.
The messages in greek are the same as there are in English, I translated them. I hope I don't get angry with a greek Quakeplayer?
Thanks for the demo's, I will watch them soon!
#6 posted by stevenaaus [110.20.10.89] on 2010/07/27 09:39:07
Crazy design gets me lost in intriguing ways, but everything was so fresh, i never got bored wandering around a little.
_Lovely_ skyboxes. Great stuff :)
Pro Tip:
#7 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/07/27 09:40:31
in case you can't figure out how to load this map, the bsp is called "sparcus09"
Morituri Te Salutant
#8 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.116] on 2010/07/27 11:49:20
I found the gold key and now I am lost. The bit in the canyon was nice.
Lift Hall
#9 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/27 14:19:57
message is very short after gold key:
"door opened in lift hall".
Nice One!
#10 posted by generic [67.233.149.177] on 2010/07/27 14:28:00
Not as 'on grid' as I thought, but there was a lot of good stuff in this map. In particular, I liked the skybox and wall texture behind you at the start -- are they from a painting? The interconnectivity of the canal/water area was cool and I liked the city street area, too.
The new monsters were...interesting. The shrinking fish heads were a bit strange and those poor skeletons appear to be suffering from hip dysplasia. The death animation in the crossbow knights also seemed a bit slow. Granito was cool, maybe minus the lightning attack -- I just wish I had a bit more room to negotiate with him ;)
Performance-wise, the map chugged in a couple of places. But, all-in-all, I had a darn good time :)
Thanks!
#11 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/27 20:07:04
I didn't hurt the fish, honest, one of the ogres must have beaten it while I was sleeping.
As far as bones concerned, he's so much turned up in modelling my objectivity has died.
Indeed, the crosbowknight has ten die frames and ten fall frames. It needed only three.
Mapping and modelling are two, and it happened after months of mapping I didn't know which model was in line. So when I was compiling qc it become some of a hussle.
I was planning adding the serpent and the deathknight, but then max_eddicts appeared.
Found some secrets? They are quiet helpfull surviving!
Shrinking Fish Heads...
#12 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/27 21:07:58
i believe you are referring to the bug that is found in stock quake. ;)
quoth fixes that, but the original death anim has the fish head shrinking for no reason at all.
Walltex
#13 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/27 21:40:29
wall texture behind you at the start -- are they from a painting?
They are from the DeathmatchMaker CD, which inspired me to make the stairs aside you in the level.
Yes, the first map was made with it.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/bukyo...
#14 posted by stevenaaus [114.72.226.246] on 2010/07/27 23:21:17
It looked like something out of American McGee's Alice to me.
Damn that's a narrow ledge
#15 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2010/07/28 06:59:04
broken archive, downloaded twice
WOW!
#16 posted by generic [67.233.149.177] on 2010/07/28 16:17:37
i believe you are referring to the bug that is found in stock quake. ;)
I've been playing this game how long and never noticed?!?!
Anyway, I meant to mention the urns were also a nice touch and that I managed to bypass triggering the Shalrath and company from teleporting into the big round room (just before Granito) for the second time by jumping in the water.
Cheers!
Broken Link
#17 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/28 23:20:26
@kona - there was an upload corrupted. It seems my webspace was temperary changed.
It works now.
@generic - I played it 2000 times but never been able to teleport in the big round room.
There isn't a teleporter destination.
Can you make a demo of it?
#18 posted by Mikko [84.253.254.41] on 2010/07/29 16:25:58
Took me 29 minutes, found 1/4 secrets (the RA on the roof).
The biggest problem was that you were a bit cheap with weapons. It took me ages to get the Nailgun and I never found either the RL or the GL so I had to rely on the axe a few times, including during the boss fight (luckily it took only three or four hits to take him down after I had spent 120 shells, 100 nails and 22 cells on him).
Design was good (especially loved the street area although I could swear I have seen very similar constructions in Quake & Q3A maps before) although a bit sloppy at times (clipping errors, lack of trimming, teleports without frames, doom doors when the door texture shows a two-part door etc.). I played in FitzQuake080 and for some reason (or maybe because of the port/version) I never saw the skybox.
Anyways, still a good map, just a bit sloppy and I really would have wanted to get my hands on the RL early on.
Fun Map
#19 posted by dfsp_spirit [92.230.51.185] on 2010/07/31 20:10:50
It was lots of fun and had some very cool parts.
Skybox was there with fitzquake085, some zfighting in a few places though.
Just as Mikko mentioned, it also took me ages to find the NG. I also ran past the GL area a few times before I finally got it (it's in a recess at the open city area with the bridge and lots of balustrades around the water, you get there pretty early).
It was way too hard for me at the default difficulty but I suck.
Doors
#20 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/01 02:32:21
@mikko - I must admit I played the map so many times I never doubed the weapons couldn't be found. Neg!ke pointed me out to make much clear to change all the closed doors in a uniform way, only doors that opened were in another texture. It also looked clear to me that at the end of the street there's a hole in the wall where you could see a monster. The crosbow knight would take your attention so you could see a door above. Sorry you missed the skybox.
@dfs_spirit - I hoped people would explore the map, not simply rush through it. I was assuming too easily the skeleton would come out and show you the entrance.
In the demothread is a secretsdemo attached.
Not when you havent played it before of course, only when you're curious.
Yes, gimme some demo's!
Fun!
#21 posted by ericw [198.53.216.92] on 2010/08/01 08:01:21
I liked the variety of environments, and the ambiance of the planets in the skybox was cool. Granito's foot-lightning was funny, but he was tough! Overall it was cool, the oldschool experimental feel and whimsical design worked out well. :D
demo(s):
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
I suck and died a lot, so it's in 5 parts.
Thanks for the fun map!
Quo Vadis
#22 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/02 02:35:03
@ericw - glad you liked the level! I had to use the foot_lightning, as the monster turns very fast. It could have been possible to position it right under its fist, but than it would have looked odd when it ends up behind it. Thanks for the demo!
@necros - you have a tricky way to set up monsters against eachother. Mostly I take them one by one, but I'm a faintplayer. The greek commands were translations of the english ones. I was surprised you didn't notice the door in the roundup street. Now I see I had to give the "shoot" message, so you missed the GL. Also I think there is too much health, only the wayup castle you went to 24 health.
The other example of dark torches went beyond my hat, as the weaponcycle command. I never use these habbits. I was concerned you would treshpass the last runup to the castleround when you jumped in the water. This way you would loose all monster spawning in, but I couldn't avoid it, even when I opened the other door not the same time. It went alright well in the end. Fun to watch the demo.
MAp!
#23 posted by Shambler [86.25.166.93] on 2010/08/03 00:42:27
I think I've played this before somehow!!
Texture combinations gave me anal prolapse. Build quality is 10 years out of date. BUT.... layout is magnificent, theme is good, good ideas and designs. Progress is interesting and gameplay and monster load is good too. Skeletons are MEH but that's only to be expected. It just needed texture and build polish until it bled.
Veni, Vidi, Croakie
#24 posted by gb [89.27.247.251] on 2010/08/03 12:48:56
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Place of two deaths, one sooner, one later.
I can't remember that trick where you can continue demos after dying, and tbh I cba to write it down somewhere because I don't often do demos... so you get live, raw and bloody deaths.
On skill 0.
To get this out of the way, your skill 0 is way too hard. It is like id hard. If the map supports skill settings, I don't want to see skill 2 - first time I looked into this I accidentally had skill 2 on and it wasn't pretty. So I went for skill 0 this time.
New monsters: Crossbows and skeleton bolts are what got me in the second demo. From a distance. The guys have perfect aim, too, and I hadn't noticed that they appeared in a previously cleared area. So they got me off guard, and pinned me from a distance while I was ogre-dancing. I couldn't do much but type GG after another skeleton popped out of the door next to me while I tried to locate and eliminate the snipers.
They dish out a lot of damage and you often don't notice them spawning or appearing somewhere, and from a long distance in Quake you don't even hear their firing sound. That's pretty unfair. Bolts and lasers coming out of nowhere.
Ammo and health: Not enough shells around the water/bridges area. Health not well distributed; it's enough, but placement could be better. There were a couple dead ends (like in the first demo where I died) that should have had a health pack for people who get cornered there.
The mega at the spawn pit was nice. Spawns in skill 0 are questionable though.
I collected a lot of rockets but couldn't do anything with them. I'd have preferred shells.
The silver key is hard to see; it blends in with the wall texture and that area is pretty evenly lit. Almost missed it.
Found the nailgun by accident; it was behind one of the doors that weren't locked or fake. How am I supposed to know that this one door among all the others in the area isn't locked and has a nailgun behind it?
You want to make sure that the player gets the vital weapons; the nailgun is one of them (only ever found the SSG and the nailgun). Don't require exploration to find vital items. It could almost have been a secret.
Gameplay and routing:
It wasn't always clear where to go next. You can enter areas from different points, and some of those will give you a huge advantage (like having a choke point for example when you enter the canal/bridges area through a doorway vs. from the water). The underwater areas were a bit uninteresting, and it wasn't easy to see where you could get out of water.
I get the impression that you built the environment first and put in monsters later. You should plan key ambushes and scripted things while you build the environment, though.
To be fair, there was a good amount of typical ambush situations and the gameplay was generally OK, mostly around doorways and when getting out of water. Quake is pretty forgiving there. It's not a bad map. Liked the vore combat. Fiends were also placed pretty competently. The skeletons got on my nerves. ;-)
Had to cut here because of 5000 character limit...
#25 posted by gb [89.27.247.251] on 2010/08/03 12:49:08
Architecture, theme and ambience:
I liked the overall setting. The choice of texture theme was all right, but the big stone blocks don't really look citylike. Should have used brick walls or even plastered wall textures. The blocks made it look too medieval/castle style instead of city. Otherwise, the impression was pretty good.
I would have kept the Latin messages away from doors and instead have inscriptions on walls, that print the Latin words when you touch them. Messages on doors should be understandable for everybody.
Like others have said, the brushwork was pretty oldschool, but that wasn't necessarily bad.
I liked some of the details, like the big vases and the faces spitting water - much like Tomb Raider. But don't copy the same 4 vases all across the map. rather have some places that have only one, others have two, and others have 4. Combine things like that with other details. I'd like to have seen plants and gardens, if only a few.
The Venice levels from Tomb Raider 2 are the obvious comparison, actually. In both cases, you get something that resembles Venice, but eerily doesn't seem to *be* Venice. So much for the thing they have in common. Of course both versions of "not-Venice" have canals and ample amounts of water and lots of windows and bridges and every second Tomb Raider map ever produced has these Roman faces on the wall, some of which always vomit water :-)
What the TR version of not-Venice has over yours are plants, trees and gardens; quite some transparent and/or shootable windows; dogs (where are the dogs btw, they would have fit well); traps (some traps are always nice); boats (both decoration and vehicles); ladders, and other stuff like that.
One thing I was missing were interactive elements. Buttons, levers, floor plates, shootable buttons, breakables, etc. OK, there was a button at the beginning, but there could just have been more stuff to do besides combat. The waterways could have had switch-operated grates that you'd need to raise to proceed. Sluices. Raising and lowering the water level. There are mods like extras that contain QC which allows you to do this.
Anyway. There are many coulds and woulds, but it's a cool map for what it is. And it is a pretty straightforward, combat focused map (actually similar to Trinca's latest in that regard). What makes it nice is the setting, feeling of the environment, and the nonlinearity (although I thought maybe it was a bit too nonlinear in the first parts).
Too bad I haven't seen all of it. A really easy "easy" skill would have allowed me to finish it (that's why I picked "easy" to start with).
To sum it up:
There are more things you can do in Quake maps than just combat. Adding a few more buttons, traps, spike shooters and maybe even small puzzles would have made this map even better. There were some promising details that looked properly Roman, I especially liked the amphores and the water-vomiter with pool. Some trees or plants would have been cool. New monsters were a bit raw around the edges. Easy skill wasn't easy at all. Underwater areas weren't interesting enough. Underwater access to the canal area should have been blocked off. Progress could have involved more ladders, climbing (maybe over roofs), and jumping. Item placement wasn't ideal. Monster placement was OK.
I Liked The Map
#26 posted by Baker [99.63.244.36] on 2010/08/03 15:48:52
The map was complex, way too hard, huge.
Now ... I consider those pluses to people who like their single player hard.
It was a bit rough around the edges, I could occasionally see "seams" where 2 plane surfaces in the map, particularly the vertical areas didn't seem to be aligned to the same grid entirely or whatever.
That being said, I find maps like these the beauty of Quake custom maps.
The map in truth couldn't be a mainstream favorite because the map is very hard and at times frustrating, but there are a lot of easy maps out there already.
#27 posted by gb [89.27.229.107] on 2010/08/03 17:53:34
Well, what I was on about was really the skill 0. You can have Easy easy and Hard hard, that's why there are skill settings in the game.
Hard??
#28 posted by Shambler [86.25.222.36] on 2010/08/03 23:37:19
Maybe if you hadn't bound movement to any keys, it might be...
The complexity and layout was the highlight.
Rome Or Greece
#29 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/03 23:53:14
@shambler - you did.., the version I quote when I read your commands. (Which were decently, otherwise I wouldn't taken your advice). Glad you didn't read the included txt,and as the quality is ten years out of date, I will stick the textures in my ass.
Madfox discovered a new texture, now the world will never be the same, remember?
@gb - Sure, but I wore this one on my toes so I still had the feeling the play was too easy.
I think you could have survived more by finding the secrets.
New monsters, I gave the crossbow a clear whish on its arrow, but I think youre shooting has oversounded that.
Neg!lke pointed me to that fact of fake doors, so I changed the texture of the closed doors uniformly. I saw several demos where Bones comes out of that door, sorry you missed it.
Also the one that has the message "quo vadis" was simple by shooting,
I know.., me stupid greece.
I was already on the 32860 clipnodes when I started to add decoration. It might seem easy to see these things apart, but after the first map collapsing I knew what I wanted. Therefore talking about these things is rather quirry.
If you saw the map with that limit, you wouldn't want to play it.
Youre Venice complaint I can follow, but you missed a lot of secrets to say there weren't enough buttons etc. Realize the qc was a hard carrot, even without addons like moving water, I've been through that. It just wasn't possible with max_eddicts.
And I Did'nt Want WARNINGS!
And don't forget, I had Venice in mind, but venividivici does means something else.
Thanks for the demo, and youre thoroughly advice!
@Baker - I have wondered a long time about the fact that there were so many megahealths. I deleted them after trinc called me a witty. Maybe it could help to watch the secrets demo. I don't know, some call it much too easy others too hard. Playing a map hondreds of times can shade a man's vieuw.
#30 posted by roblot [216.106.106.213] on 2010/08/04 01:08:43
I definitly appreciate the creative effort in this level, being a Quake mapper also.
Points:
- Bones has improved alot since I saw it quite a while ago. Great looking sprite, and at times I hear a bit of horse in the death sound. Bones attack could use some unique weapon fire though (not laser, maybe something runic).
- Arrows sure beat a swinging sword from 20 yards away. Knights and Crossbow Knights make a good combo.
- Granito is well done, but the arena could have been bigger and more complex to show it off better.
- Fish head effects are not a bad thing. Think of it as a blowfish being deflated.
- Areas look good and interesting with an old town look. I'm not sure, but it looks like selected places have fog and other places don't? Is that possible to do?
The only thing I'd add is a bit of scare-factorb to this level (as in textures) to make it a more forbidding place to be.
#31 posted by gb [89.27.229.107] on 2010/08/04 13:35:05
The player should never need to find secrets to finish the level. That's why they are secrets; they're optional goodies.
Hard vs. not hard: The map has 145 monsters in skill 0, 150 in skill 1, and 156 in skill 2. That is practically no difference between skill levels. For skill 0, it was too hard. That's why there *is* a skill 0.
Crossbow sounds: What I meant was that sounds only travel a certain distance in Quake, and if a monster is beyond that distance, you won't hear the firing sound, or if it is far enough away, the sound will be pretty faint.
The messages were Latin, so was some of the decoration, hence I got the impression of Rome or Italy. :-)
Honestly ...
#32 posted by Baker [99.63.244.36] on 2010/08/04 14:18:39
I have wondered a long time about the fact that there were so many megahealths.
I desperately needed every one I found.
Some people might complain that this map was too hard.
I think Quake lacks some good "too hard" maps.
I played Masque of the Red Death almost effortlessly the whole way through scarcely ever getting hurt seriously.
Your map, I was frequently bloodied up by long distance culprits. I died several times. I really like that.
A list of "too hard" maps that I can remember:
1. The Middle Evil. OMG. Talk about too hard. It might be skill 2 that I'm thinking of. Several Shamblers, almost no ammo. Ambushes.
2. That distrans Quoth map with Doom textures JPL ripped.
3. The Ijed Spacehulk map where fiends are always somehow magically behind you without notice. Not really a too hard map after you make the assumption you are never, ever safe.
4. Some sort of Hell in a Can type map that wasn't Hell in a Can. Can't remember the name.
You map was too hard in a cool way. Some of the "too hard" maps in the past were just unfair ... like maps with situations involving no cover and vores, etc.
Your map is an attrition type of "too hard". A bit of damage here, a bit there ... nothing inherently unfair.
Baker
#33 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.207] on 2010/08/04 17:09:26
Try Sickbase, if you didnt already. Its very hard. I made it, and I cant finish it on skill 3, and its really hard on skill 2 and would take me like a week to do it.
Not that that's anything to be proud of. But I remember Sielwolf loved it cause it was so hard. TBF he just pissed all over it.
#34 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/04 18:51:48
it's unfortunate that 'nightmare' isn't a full skill level, because that would be the place to add the extra 9000 monsters and such for the 'too hard' mode. :P
check out the how hard is too hard thread here for the discussion on skill levels... may be helpful.
Lat-in The Hall
#35 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/04 19:08:45
@roblot - I have a version of Bones throwing a bone, but then it don't has the wide area.
Fishheads, sorry you're the second that point me out, I start believing I still play Quake1.01.
Fog is really low 0.03 Reason you see it only in large places.
I was planning to make the level darker, but by complaints of not finding things I didn't.
@gb - I didn't say the player needs secrets to leave the level, it would be more easy.
I know this fact of skillpath is tracking me down. What to do with one player saying there's many health, and another that can't reach halfway. I know the largest part of the map went to the architecture, then the new monsters, and finally monsterplacement and supply. When I had the level on a reasonable skill (to me) I changed some monsters at stratigy points to lower and higher.
Of course this is a little easy-way-out, but there were so much more things I wanted to do like better lightplacements, more other monsters etc, that I suddenly got the blackout, this map is dead to my imagination.
I know this sounds rough, mostly the result of mapping too long without hardly any progress.
Crossbow knights.., you'll hear a gun, do you hear an arrow?
@baker - I truely concern your comment, I really was on the right way untill someone claimed my lack of attitude about the megahealths.
I read the early Qents, and it is right to make the level not too hard, otherwise people get distrackted. On the other hand it takes a real long way mapping to get things done so it is only fair to remind the player about these wits.
I think I'll change the easy settings, so for a experiencing walkthrough it would help.
Chance people will only play on easy level.
I hate it when I die! Not from the point of restarting or quicksaving, no if a level is interesting I wonīt mind. But now Iīm playing Hellboy and I have too defeat an end boss which is almost impossible. And I canīt get further if I donīt. I hate it, really I do!
"RickyT23 - Play me a demo, shoot me an arrow!
#36 posted by roblot [216.106.107.124] on 2010/08/05 14:50:23
That's a good fog setting. Little to no fog banding, and it looks like it's only seen outdoors and in dark caves.
#37 posted by gb [89.27.218.7] on 2010/08/05 17:29:06
I know this fact of skillpath is tracking me down. What to do with one player saying there's many health, and another that can't reach halfway.
Make the hard skill really hard, the easy skill really easy, and the normal skill somewhere in the middle. How hard can that be?
Quake veterans have forgotten that skill levels exist. I only play Quake since 2006 or so, and almost never play vanilla Quake. So I'm one of the people that would please like an Easy skill that deserves the name.
I'm puzzled that some people don't get this. Lack of proper skill settings is a bigger flaw than lack of proper lighting.
#38 posted by gb [89.27.218.7] on 2010/08/05 17:30:55
And to compare it to multiplayer for baker & co., lack of skill settings is like no NAT fix. Some people won't be able to enjoy the game.
#39 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/08/05 20:11:22
t's unfortunate that 'nightmare' isn't a full skill level, because that would be the place to add the extra 9000 monsters and such for the 'too hard' mode. :P
Or modify a range of functions like health, attack speed, pain likelihood and shot speed all on a sliding scale with skill taken as a factor.
As a downside it'll make easy easier, but I can't think of anyone who plays on that skill. And if they did they probably wouldn't complain.
Hard becomes slightly harder and nightmare becomes twitch.
I Liked It
#40 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/08/07 06:43:29
There are an incredible number of brush errors, probably because it was made with Quark, but it played okay in Fitzquake085.
The texturing was really bad in places, it surely could have used a lot more tweaking.
I played on the default skill level and had no problems. Some areas were a bit strange but I found my way through.
I really liked Bones.
Nice job, I enjoyed it!
Your effort is appreciated :)
Thank LUNARAN For Sounds!!!
#41 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/07 07:34:01
@gb - You started playing Quake in 2006.
I started mapping the level in 2006. Can you imagine?
But you're skill skirmish is noted.
I played levels harder on my teeth!
btw Thanks for the SinTools.
@Ijed - It should be possible to play it on nightmare,
at least I'm still...ouch.
@Ricky - yes there we go again. Put the blame on Quark.
I spent evenings on counting out to get the blast without warnings.
Now I amon the point of 17800 brushes and a 32659 clipnodes.
That is 8 clipnodes under the maxcount.
I considder it a victory to catch a map this size without warnings.
The texture is disorder. And stop lightning.
Bones really hates you!
#42 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/07 07:42:18
you can reduce clipnodes by covering bumpy areas that the player can never reach with clip brushes.
for example, if you had a bunch of windows on a second story but that the player couldn't reach, just fill in the hole with a clip brush so that the overall shape of the front of the building would be 'flat' if you included the clip brush.
So
#43 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/07 17:14:43
won't the included brushes count?
At this moment I met excactly the max_clipnodes.
32659 > 32767max.
This means (I think), I have 8 clipnodes over. A cubic brush has 6 sides, which will be divided into 12 triangles.
Twelve triangles have 36 clipnodes, am I right? If the inner two triangles don't count.
Then there is one triangle left to add?
#44 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/07 18:10:06
clipnodes aren't brushes, perse. they are how the engine does collision, so the less pokey bits to do collision around, the less clipnodes.
it doesn't reduce clipnodes on a 1 to 1 basis, as clip brushes only affect hulls 1 and 2, not the visual hull, so it's like a 2/3 reduction or something.
same thing, for example, with fancy railings.
just plop a clip brush over the entire railing and it will greatly reduce clip nodes.
Updated
#45 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/07 23:59:08
@necros - That's the reason I used dxf for the railings.
I just compared the round railing which is the one left with brushes.
If I compile them apart I get an outcome of ~ 352 clipnodes.
If I use the same constuktion in dxf it goes ~ 132 clipnodes.
That's not the same as a covering brush, I know.
But mapping on the edge of max_clipnodes does strange things with a map. I just spent an evening without seeing I moved one brush.
@gb - You were right. I updated the map and now there are
easy - 124, normal - 153, and hard - 157.
The skillpath for easy and normal were twitched. I think the reason was when compiling without real vis the playing only goes smooth on normal skill. Hard and easy start cluttering.
So you might want to make a new try?
Qc
#46 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/08 00:03:49
I also added the qc.
Thumbs Up
#47 posted by Orl [69.253.226.218] on 2010/08/08 19:15:24
I've been meaning to comment on this for awhile now, but kept putting it off.
A very fun map with some interesting enemies, along with tough gameplay and good architecture. I did get lost a few times and some areas did look bland, but it wasn't bad enough to make me want to stop playing.
But overall an enjoyable experience with good replayability :)
First run demo on hard difficulty, protocol 15: http://qrf.mine.nu/~orl/misc/orl_v...
Good Map
#48 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2010/08/09 17:36:41
I liked this map a lot. Each of the bigger areas was designed well for visuals and fights. Also the way in which the areas were interconnected was great. I liked how the water parts worked for interconnection.
The new monsters were good. They were enjoyable enemies.
I played on easy and there was always enough ammo and health. Couldn't find any of the secrets. The GK area was somewhat tricky on how to get to the key.
There was a lot of vertical fighting which was good. The map enforced a bit different fighting with help of vertical design, far away archers and lack of explosive weapons. This was good and refreshing.
The architecture looked interesting and I thought it was designed very well.
My demos (joequake gl):
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Thanks
#49 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/10 20:09:37
for the demo! I am still watching them.
It is a remarkable effect to see how different people play the game.
Also to experience, that some of the assumable ways to go aren't that understandable at all.
One of the open facts I had was, that when catching the GK and go up again to the area with the three entities one could jump into the water without getting up. The halldoor spawned monsters in the castlepart, so by taking this track there was an easy endfight.
I sealed this part off again in the update.
@mandel - You are a strategic player! Do you use a joystick? In the caveslope I tried as hard to make the distance far enough, but you jumped over it. Of course the height is important, negl!ke also got over it.
You traced the hom I wrote about in the txt.
It was almost impossible to avoid it, every brush in this part made the effect only worser.
I saw it was a bit hard to get the GL so I changed it too. The easy skill wasn't that easy at all, but it had lots more of megahealth. Your demo showed me the oppertunity of how to loose the halldoor's trigger.
Fun to watch!
Madfox
#50 posted by Ankh [94.246.127.79] on 2010/08/10 20:51:44
let me assure you thet mandel doesn't need any joystics to do this jump :)
It is a speedrunning technique.
In The Interest Of Watching Some Of These Demos
#51 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/08/12 15:37:50
...could you upload the original version? demos are asking for a sparcus09.bsp
Or did I miss something? :)
No
#52 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/13 00:08:19
In the original version were made two demo's, necros and mandel.
They showed me the wrong ways to go.
If you want to watch the demo's you'll have to take later versions.
I know the same download counted for two map versions.
This because I didn't want to change the download link.
If I start distributing two versions with the same zipname I'm afraid the error can't be repaired.
Why don't you play the map yourself?
Finally Got Around To Playing This
#53 posted by meTch [99.60.17.106] on 2010/08/13 04:44:31
and getting through it
i got 4 demos out of six tires, fist play i forgot to record and 4th play i cornered myself and didn't get too far so i excluded it, here u go fox:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Played It Finally...
#54 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/08/13 08:31:20
Well, globally what others said is valid.
I liked a lot the new monsters. There are few misaligned textures here and there, but you have to really look for to find it.
Overall architecture is good, there are some amazing part (the bridge), and some less interesting (the zombie tunnel)
Gameplay worked for me, not really difficult actually, if you play in a non-run-over-the-map way... I guess speedrunners will suffer in some areas... thought...
Well overall the map is cool, and I really had fun playing it :D
Argentium Ass
#55 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/14 05:24:03
thanks for the demo meTch, had some fun watching them.
@jpl - thanx for testing, playing a map that you already know is another way than the first touch. I learned a lot by seeing how others play. Something to do with the attitude of being attracted to quake monsters by defending oneselves. It took me quiet long to see that the forelast room could give the oppertunity to escape to the last monsterspawn.
@ericw - I like the way you trash through the level! I t lightened up my precious balancing crafts and in some way you managed to get quiet far without getting hurt.
Alright, you died some times, but more by exploding thunderbolt than skill.
I was surprised you found a hom in the undercave, I hadn't seen it.
Also by falling in the water you lost the last part of monsterspawn, which made the
end somehowe poor. But that was my mistake by giving you no outcome to the halldoor.
Great to watch the demo's!
@gb - watching the demo you write it takes too long to turn out bones. I gave it a health of 150. That's way under the ogre, which ordinarely is easy to kill in spite of its fatness. Bones is smaller (simpelogic) and so chance you miss is at forehand.
The crossbowknight is health 120, which again is in oppertunity of its smallness a strong count. The damage is 15, the usual t_damage of the enforcer, who's health is only 80 so its easier to kill. I think you mean the amount attack gives you the feeling of too strong monsters. I just wanted to dislead the player seeing a knight, therefor it's easy to kill.
I changed the light of the silver key, indeed it was a little low.
You complain about too less ammu, but you're use of the double_barrel for the fishes is rather broad. At least if you take the time to climb up a wall without depressio.
It might have been usefull to inspect some mislignments, there could have been a secret.
You were right about the skill setting, I had matched easy for normal.
@orl - I was amazed seeing you play in hard skill! I tried several times, but I was afraid it was too hard.
I can see you're an experienced player, by landing on top of the lampost! You did have a good grip on the vormit by changing out its voreballs for a pillar without almost no way to move. And you had a good owl by not killing the crossbow
knight at the streetcorner. Good to watch the demo, it almost felt like watching a good adventure! Thanks!
Re
#56 posted by saucerfish [205.242.95.131] on 2010/08/17 06:06:00
"in case you can't figure out how to load this map, the bsp is called "sparcus09""
Still don't know how to load the level.
-game veni05a: no
-game sparcus09: no
-game VeniVidiFutzi: no
#57 posted by stevenaaus [110.20.20.173] on 2010/08/17 07:11:32
+map sparcus09
Ha Ha.. Bastard Will Probably Never Be Back Anyway
#58 posted by stevenaaus [110.20.19.37] on 2010/08/17 08:18:50
Make a directory in your quake directory called veni. Extract contents of download into that directory, then start game with
"quakespasm.exe -game veni +skill 0 +map sparcus10"
If that doesnt work , try sparcus09. Seems it magically changed sometime ;>
I played this map a few times.. I *did* find the grenade launcher the first time, but having to shoot the door was a little tricky. Seems to have changed now. Madfox's maps are great value.
Saucerfish - ZealousQuakefan
#59 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/17 19:47:46
Sorry for the trouble, as it is due to the fact I changed some things at last moment.
I know it's a little hard when the map won't load.
The new level is called sparcus10, the old one is sparcus09 as noted in the txt.
When I watched the demo of Orl I got so impressed by his way of playing I decided to add the old level back again on the net.
Just to watch the demo's, who are quiet remarkable.
The level aches some defaults like the switched skillpath and more.
So here is the first version, to watch (or play) the first #40 post demo's.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/veni0...
lol
#60 posted by saucerfish [205.242.95.142] on 2010/08/17 19:52:53
Thanks. Great looking level.
Fun
#61 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/19 01:26:26
@ankh - I can see you're a cautious player. I watched you close inspecting the secret trails I left to gain acces to them, but for some reason you seeked them in the same spot.
The area up in the second room was easily to reach if you had looked more for the texture defaults in the upper corridor.
Also you have a naughty way to setup monsters against eachother. I have no transparent water so it was a miracle to see you shooting them.
You were very close to the secrets, but of course too attended to follow the gameflow.
Great you enjoyed the level, I enjoyed the demo!
@meTch - I had a little shattered screen watching the demo's on proquake. Mostly the metal2_5 had a bright glare on it.
In joequake one of the stone texture had the same lightup effect, as if some colours get changed in classic quake.
It took me almost all evening to watch your demo's. You got a weird sense of playing, almost like a cat who has chased a mouse, and then suddenly leave all and start exploring another part of the level, hoping the monsters break eachother.
You chased bones into the secret part in the sidehouse, but it was too hard to see. I made a light there. Good use of items. I think you set the record for climbing up the steepest slope in quake.
#62 posted by meTch [99.58.207.218] on 2010/08/19 02:27:09
I was using the latest WinQuake-Pro (449?) with the software transparent water (makes it in to cool color-shifting squares, lava looks neat)so that could be an issue. I don't know if anyone else gets this but when I'm playing a map, it's not me vs. the monsters; it's me vs. You and your tricks and assassins... I feel it's more of a headhunter situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPp... . Also, I change areas often because when I'm in one area I'm thinking of the others, and if I get an idea or something I may have overlooked comes to mind I go to it right away before I forget, and I also want the other monsters to kill themselves in my absence.
Slope climbing practice is from playing coop/ffa online, but when I made it to the top of your slope and found that edge I couldn't jump over I got SOOOOOO MAAAAAD!
Hehe
#63 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/19 03:37:59
metch, you must have had fun climbing the terrain in kinn's marcher fortress. :P
what's winquake pro btw?
#64 posted by meTch [99.58.207.218] on 2010/08/19 04:01:14
http://quakeone.com/proquake/
a sort of standard in the non-quakeworld multiplayer and works fine for single player as well
no grade to steep! if I can't climb it I'll use some other method (from ramp-jumping to grenade+rocketjump).
Maximal Distance...
#65 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/20 00:40:51
When I'm playing Quake, it's Quake versus me.
I'm the one who beats every monster one by one, and even try to be polite by crossing a knight with my axe.
I think it's not fare to lame him with a gun, behold the soard!
The colourshift also apeared in the JoeQuake demo's.
I rarely play other than QuakeClassic.
The last demo the effect wasn't there, as I saw you used Fitzquake, which I prefer.
Really hadn't tried it out on other engines, as I was rarely enlightened by necros and Telejanos.
I'm still fond of this engine, especially the mini version. Great to see the lavaballs with their spectrum of colours. I was really surprised at that time, as I never saw coloured light before in Quake.
As you played it so edged, I wondered if I you would suceed to reach the bridge, hanging out there. Earlier mandel made just the good jump to get over it, which I couldn't believe as the gap is about 288 units.
The maximum distance that a player can jump and not fall into lava is 225 units.
But as this is a slope, which has an outstretch of 64 units below it could be possible. Reason I took 60 units more.
I saw the clip at easter last year, it's made in Brussels.
I once went egghunting that way, it is a beautiful monument. If you stand under it, there is a sense of an exterrial force.
It was my inspiration to make a giant fluor shape in WitchCraft.
Hmm
#66 posted by nitin [220.235.80.162] on 2010/08/24 12:29:54
there's some very good ideas in here layout wise and some nice designs too, but I have to say a lot of it felt a bit random as well. Not quite sure what it is but something felt off.
And I hated Bones, used too much and I found it annoying.
Very interesting effort though.
#67 posted by gb [89.27.222.75] on 2010/08/24 22:24:27
new demo on skill 0. sparcus10.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
I finished the map this time (ok got killed by granito, he isn't "easy" in the slightest).
It is good that you put more health and ammo in easy.
Still I think it wasn't really "Easy". I would classify it as between medium and hard, actually. "Easy" is grandmother skill! This map should only have around 60 monsters on Easy - remember, untrained players should be able to "easily" finish on skill 0.
The way to get the gold key was almost like a secret - too easy to miss.
Placement of quad and pent was bad.
It was often not clear where to go.
Anyway, you'll see in the demo what the problems are. It's good that it was rebalanced, but Easy should still be easier.
I still find it unfair that crossbow knights make no sound when firing.
#68 posted by negke [88.70.252.158] on 2010/08/24 22:33:57
I didn't find Granito to be overly hard. Though maybe he was changed after the beta or I don't remember correctly. Did you find the secret in his arena?
#69 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/24 23:31:03
i didn't find any secrets in the granito arena.
i didn't find it hard, but his lightning attack is unavoidable and there is no cover. this puts a cap on how long you have to kill him entirely dependent on how much health and armor you have when you jump into the pit.
when i did it, i had full health and the RA and granito blasted off almost all (or all?) of the armor by the time i killed him.
if you jumped in there with half health though, or no armor, the fight would likely be impossible i guess?
#70 posted by gb [89.27.222.75] on 2010/08/24 23:37:31
The thing is that Granito isn't suited to the "Easy" skill.
He might not be too hard on "Hard", but he is on "Easy".
Maybe a centerprint:
"Granito thinks you are too weak to fight him"
"Come back when you're stronger"
No, I didn't see a secret in his arena.
Void And A-void
#71 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/25 00:26:26
@nitin - I must say I really apreciate your comments, as they gave me the feeling I did something right. On the other hand I'm not really glad with what I done, as it assures me I did something wrong.
Your comment accentuates my feeling of making a map twice. Maybe I misused bones a bit.., must be my enthousiasm.
@gb - you're a die-hard. Don't know what it is.
I understand youre comment, and it helps me understand what is going on playing the game.
I surely need you as beta player.
The balancing between the pent and the squad have something to do with the way you play.
When reaching out to all there is, there might be a chance later on in game you'll miss some care.
There is no use taking the squad and pent at once going down the cave. I thought the squad more usefull going in the last part.
But I won't let off players to get their items.
OK, they could have been placed better.
Gold key has a pronounced light.
Where's your sense of explorement?
Does everything has to be straight from A to B?
I tried adding arrows but reached max_planes.
I watched you up in the cave tracing the dxf file as you thought it a strange effect.
I couldn't hide it behind the wall as dxf models need to placed in open area's.
I still think it reasonable a crossbow HAS sound when he shoots.
@ neg!ke - I don't have the knowhow to make Granito act different in several skill paths.There is a way to do it, but I was already glad it run.
@ necros - I had a grid in top of the ceiling. but I textured it off, as it was much to easy to leave the fight.
I also deleted the megahealth, so it plays a little harder.
The best way to survive is to use the squad for last.
Others secrets are mostly cliffhangers on the side of the buildings.
I marked some with teleporter tex.
#72 posted by gb [89.27.222.75] on 2010/08/25 03:31:19
@gb - you're a die-hard. Don't know what it is.
heheh. That is true in more than one way.
Maybe I'm simply deaf. I paid attention to the crossbow guys and simply didn't hear a firing sound.
Madfox
#73 posted by nitin [203.202.43.53] on 2010/08/25 03:50:10
oh you definitely did quite a few things right, but equally there are a number of things that could be done better too.
More maps coming?
Willem Tell
#74 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/25 20:50:21
@gb - I must say you touch a special feeling in me.
Like going to a restaurant and getting a free meal, and then start complaining about the service. The music is too loud, and the coffee is cold.
I don't mind, and I need it. Just trying to get the costumor satisfied.
Behold by Willem Tell.., the crosbow has a flushing sound.
You can hear it clear. Not at startshot no.., at moment of impact.
This looks quiet plain to me. I play guitar for a long time, but the plunge of a crossbow can't widthstand the sound of a shotgun.
If it would be the question with a soard or a gun, you would argue the woosh of the soard isn't as clear as a shotgun?
I think I missed an arrow.
@nitin - considder it as doing an act is caused by a curiosity, that envolved myselve into a state of witness as well as accomplice.
It starts with a feeling of surprise the quake-engine can create this spectecular effects.
Than it ends with the culprit to finish the thing without error and malfunction.
Something like a weary dopefish, who scatters in the sun, but drowns in its own backslash.
More maps? I get a little concerned about the time it is consuming.
The last maps were really a stroll on my attitude, and I think it was my upmost.
But, as always, there are some things behind.
#75 posted by gb [89.27.202.140] on 2010/08/25 22:21:15
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm criticizing the free service... I'm just trying to help - I just made that new demo because you said I might want to try it again.
I'll shut up then :-)
Not At All!
#76 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/26 22:15:04
I don't mind, and I need it
your help apreciated!
I'm still on the crossbow thing.
Do you think my comparishing with the knight and its soard can stand?
Of course the knight is always close, so its soard you'll hear, but not as loud as a shotgun. I thought the first time you'll hear the arrow flush you would notice.
Or don't you hear no flush at all?
#77 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/26 22:30:48
i just checked, the crossbow knights do not make any sound when firing. i thought it was just because i was far away.
Crossbow Sound
#78 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/26 23:06:34
That's strange. It can be that on my comp I did change something,
but I can clearly hear the cbow.wav as it is present in knight2.qc
sound (self, CHAN_WEAPON, "weapons/cbow.wav", 1, ATTN_STATIC);
It would solve the problem, as gb is telling me that from the start, and I can't find the clue.
I watched your demo, gb. Alright, mayby I'm a little coy, sorry.
That thing can be killed indeed. But when I place the pent in the last part the chances would be odd Granito would survive.
It wasn't really clear to me why you took the pent and megahealth, while you could see there were no monsters around. A player could think it would be wisely to spare some items.
Than you would have survived, I think.
Also it is a long walk, but I thought when you had catched that GK at once, the fight back wouldn't be a so easy one.
If you would have shoot the round nob in the end pit, your chances to survive would have risen dramaticly.
Thanks for the demo,
your comments were welcom!
Maybe
#79 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/26 23:11:23
it is stupid, to catch a key while sitting on a pillar, I don't know. It just was there, I think.
I had the same odd feeling, when I had made Granito. Rather a rough clumb , with hardly any Quake-a-like. But as it opened the oppertuntity to change gemeplay I got used to it.
People still may think, is this a stupid joke?
In a matter of fact hellspawn is also a joke.
Crossbows
#80 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/08/26 23:50:41
(some posting without playing here, sorry)
Even when they do have a firing sound, crossbow wielding enemies in quake have always been the source of 'cheap sniping' complaints. I think it's more to do with the visual feedback.
Crossbows lack a muzzleflash - which at range is the clearest indicator a shot has been fire - and arrows are much harder to see than any projectile a regular quake monster fires. Scrags, hell knights and vores all fire brightly coloured projectiles with fullbright tracers. Even ogre grenades have a red band and smoke particle effect.
One solution, which is simple in concept but may require carefull modelling to pull off well, would be to set the crossbow bolts on fire. This would make the arrows as bright as the enforcer's lasers, although personally I'd draw the line at making them glow as well. Yet I would at least try out the ogre's smoke effect - placing the origin of the arrow model just behind the arrowhead would probably create the best visual. If you left off the glow from the arrow, then you could instead have a 'muzzleflash' as the arrow is lit.
I'm now quite tempted to go and adapt this to the harpoon-toting ogre I've had in the ideas pile, hmm...
#81 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/27 00:41:18
yea, it's partially that too, preach. but mostly it's just the lack of sound effect at all.
even if it did play a sound, keep in mind that ATTN_STATIC = 3 which is a very high attenuation. for a monster that is going to be used as a sniper, it would be better to use a much lower attenuation so that the sound could be heard at long range like ATTN_NORM (1) or even lower values such as 0.7 or 0.6.
Crossbow Sound
#82 posted by roblot [216.106.106.4] on 2010/08/27 14:54:15
I get a sound most of the time with Fitz 085. I'm wondering if it's a different engine thing? The sound only plays when you're hit or a close miss. Arrows ideas here sound good. Quake's organic weapons are great, but the only time you get a good look at an arrow is pausing the game (nice arrows though, madfox).
#83 posted by gb [89.27.213.221] on 2010/08/27 19:09:21
I only hear a sound when the bolts strike a wall.
The firing sound in Quake is the main cue that something fired at you... the first time I noticed the attenuation problem was with Quoth's rocketeers way back in the early rmq days. When they're placed at a distance and used as snipers (big maps...), you got the problem of guided rockets coming out of nowhere, because you can't hear the firing sound anymore.
The problem is the firing sound, not the hit sound.
I'm not sure if the crossbow knights in madfox' map play a sound when the bolt is fired; it's either that they don't, or that it's not loud enough / the attenuation is too high. This again creates projectiles that give you no clue that they are coming.
Of course a crossbow isn't as loud as a shotgun, but it does make a sound (a normal bow would probably be even more silent, but still makes a sound). And I think because it's only a game, the player should get a cue when something is shooting at him.
About the pent, I mainly decided to take it to drive the point home. Some players will take it, thinking that there is a fight ahead or something. It's also in a secret, so not everybody will have it in the granito fight. The only way to make sure the player has the pent is to place it in granito's arena. But then again, if you need a pent to kill a monster, it would be easier to remove the pent and just halve the monster's hitpoints. :)
My complaint about Granito is only in regard to the easy skill setting, anyway. As a monster, he is cool.
Flaming Arrow
#84 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/28 02:04:58
The problem is the firing sound
Actually I just copied the enforcer code inside there, and left the enforcer/enfire.wav inside.
That I don't hear the firing is something I'm not sure of.
It's true I didn't check the firing sound, but not hearing anything was also the reason I didn't add a plunge sound.
I either didn't get a message : enforcer sound not loaded.
I know I thought about the idea how to make the crossbow launch.
And it seemed reasonable to me to make no launchsound, but then again it could be handy to make a player's attention key. The code had
sound (self, CHAN_WEAPON, "weapons/cbow.wav", 1, ATTN_STATIC);
so it should be heard on a loud range as the arrow strikes in.
In the longest shoot part on the street I couldn't hear the launch of a crossbow.
So I made something to make its attention.
More in the way Preach wrote about a burning arrow.
The front are luminating colours, the back are standard pal.
Maybe the fire dots should be more in its tail.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/flair...
I know the crossbow knight code is a little cranky.
I often saw it shooting with its back to me, as if the ai_face wasn't tweaked.
In regard, I think he looks better than the original knight.
Pentagram - When seeing an item my most attention is to the point if I can use it or not. There can be three items, like megahealth, pent and squad , but I think it poor to use them all the same time.
More with the idea it could be usefull when there is an end boss.
If I could, I would change Granito's behaviour in skill settings, but I haven't found the key.
I know, because Shambler also changes skill in settings.
#85 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/28 02:44:42
change Granito's behaviour in skill settings
if (skill == 0)
->do something easy
else if (skill == 1)
->do something normal
else if (skill == 2)
->do something hard
else if((skill == 3)
->do something nightmarish
I Swear I Heard Crossbow Sound
#86 posted by nitin [203.217.67.37] on 2010/08/28 03:53:17
will double check whether it was when I got hit or when it fired.
Bows Crossed
#87 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/28 09:48:02
I updated again, as the amophora sizes were lost. And I added a better animation to the crossbow knigth, as he suddenly waved with its soard in painframes.
@nitin - When the arrow impact the sound is heard. I tried several times to add a launch sound, but it won't come through.
It is almost the same code as the enforcer.
I added the EF_DIM light again.
@necros - thanks for the hint, I included it in the code. There are three beats granito launches a HellNewLightning, but I think it happens only once in a round.
I don't know if it fits in well,
void() granito_beat12 =[ $beat12, granito_beat13 ]
{
if (skill == 1)
HellNewLightning();
};
void() granito_beat13 =[ $beat13, granito_beat14 ]
{
if (skill == 2)
HellNewLightning();};
void() granito_beat14 =[ $beat14, granito_beat15 ]
{
if (skill == 3)
HellNewLightning();
};
void() granito_beat15 =[ $beat15, granito_run1 ] {};
Does this mean the bold launch happens only half the time in normal as in hard, or am I wrong?
Also it is strange to see the crossbow knight shooting its arrow from its back. I searched in the ai_face but I don't know how to tell it has its bows crossed?
#88 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/28 19:11:59
well, no that's not exactly correct.
1. i'm assuming there's another call to HellNewLightning() in the frame before granito_beat12.
what's going to happen is that in skill 0 it will shoot lightning once.
in normal, it will shoot twice, once on frame 11 then again on frame 12.
on hard, it will shoot TWICE, once on frame 11 and once on frame 13.
what you need to do is use inequalities in your if checks.
frame1:
HellNewLightning();
frame2:
if (skill > 0)
HellNewLightning();
frame3:
if (skill > 2)
HellNewLightning();
now in easy, it will shoot once, in normal and hard it will shoot twice, and in nightmare it will shoot 3 times.
Thanks!
#89 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/29 00:33:06
I'm glad there was already a hint in the shambler.qc that
if (skill==3)
had on its count.
Otherwise it would have taken me ages to conclude it had to be somewhere there.
Now easy skill Granito don't launch bold, normal one, hard two and in nightmare skill it will be three.
On what point in the ai_face decides the monster to shoot foreward?
I ask this as I see it launch two times, front and back.
#90 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 00:51:45
on ai_face, i'm not actually sure i know what you are talking about, but ai_face faces the current enemy. it does so incrementally depending on what self.yaw_speed is.
Musket
#91 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/29 21:54:33
Watching close to crossbow knight it launches arrows the same time when its face is at the shooter, as when its back is turned in front.
#92 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 22:53:43
like i said, ai_face faces the current enemy in increments based on yaw_speed. you have to give it time to turn around.
Indeed
#93 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/30 23:03:57
but as I'm a little crumpy with coding it took some time to realize and add{ai_face();};
behind the knight2_shoot session. Now it shoots straight.
Also I'm quiet slow to see that
if (self.classname == "monster_enforcer")
there will be never be a launchsound, as there are no enforcers in game.
Now it works perfectly, so thanks to Necros and gb the level is now optimized.
The crossbow knight has a launch sound, as well as an impact sound with a EF_DIM glow.
The sound is only to be heard at close distance to it, that I couldn't avoid.
The end boss has a good skill setting, that were in fact the things I was struck with before I published the level.
Thanks for advice and support!
Does That Mean That
#94 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2010/08/31 14:47:21
You upadated the above link to a newer, optimized version?
Yes
#95 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/31 21:40:54
I know it's a bit foolish to contain the same download link.
But I did it because I don't want several links to several maps.
The only reference is that sparcus10.bsp comes from sparcus207.qrm , and the last txt addition is from 28aug2010.
That Is
#96 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/31 21:42:28
sparcus207qrk - 30aug2010.
So Whats The Reason Of
#97 posted by spy [178.88.3.252] on 2010/09/01 14:49:07
releasing not properly finished map
Well..,
#98 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/01 21:56:27
It is said, that when reaching the inner of an atom, the chance really catching up with the proper position of it only becomes smaller, no matter how precise the calculation will be.
The reason of relaesing not properly finished maps is...
the fact it took ages in my imagination to get all the broken polys and homs out of the way, before I could evaluate how many more I could add and relay on, before the engine started spitting its warnings. This sounds odd, but on the last point this balance has a tricky foot by suddenly expanding its clipnodes in a illogical way by only replacing a brush.
the distribution of the entities was done in a short way, after I finally had done the layout. Then I got so weird playing the level over and over again I just couldn't see it anymore.
there were several betatesters, who gave me great ideas but in the end there was no chance adding anything at all. I deleted all ambient-sounds.
I saw the clipcount wouldn't permit me to decorate the level, so I used dxf-models, which are very hard to position when they extend more than 2048 units.
Coding the new monsters took quiet some time, and even then I hadn't the knowledge to make skillsetting go. Yes, I'm a coding-nooblip.
Making a game go means to cut out all oppertunities that don't match the gameflow. I'm the geek, who doesn't see after x-times what a player's purpose has in mind.
#99 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/01 22:32:15
on model/bsp integration:
if you have doom3:
you can export the brushwork in the area to a separate map file and import it into the doom3 editor. doom3 has an option to export brushwork as an obj file which can be imported into your 3d app. then you can just build whatever model with the brushwork right there for comparison.
i think you can do this with gtkr? it's been a while, is there an 'export to obj' option?
#100 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/09/01 23:54:26
now this i liked. more than red slammer.. despite the brushwork being poor with often shoddy texturing; the *feel* was much more interesting with a better variety of areas (both indoor & outdoor) and more of a sense of being in an actual place (not necessarily a realistic one, but a location as opposed to a mass of generic quake brushes). gameplay was nicely spread out too with a good variety of close-quarters and long-range combat, and it was generally enjoyable to navigate; i never found myself 'lost' even though i didn't always know what to do next. good verticality; nice atmosphere in places
gripes; too many skeletons. no grenade launcher! doors that went up instead of splitting to the sides. gold key pillar thing = meh.
on the whole though, fun
#101 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/02 22:31:59
@necros - I haven't Doom3, but I'm working with 3DMax to fetch the manual. For me it is the only way to reïmport models from Quake without triscount loss. I've got a torrentbitch, but I can't conceal the keygen.
Also I tried QR but I got knocked out with the install.
What mostly concerned me was the way to import animating models, as I managed to import only one model. As soon as I added another animating one, the framecount started interacting with eachother. In models.qc there are already flame and flame2.mdl which use frames. Strange enough I had the same problem with sprites.
@rj - fine you enjoyed the level, redslammer is been good textured, that I must aprove to neg!ke. I was inspired by the Hexen2 wad, and used just a few of it. Their dimension is slightly different to Quake which produced a lot of scaling.
Yes, skeleton is used broadly, just because.., well.., I just can't stand him!
GrenadeLauncher is in the side door in the street-round.
If you watch carefully you can see some doors couldn't be opened otherwise, without appearing from secondlevel or sideways.
#102 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/02 22:34:52
there's even a rocketlauncher, if you look close to the ledges up there.
#103 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/03 01:20:43
I've got a torrentbitch
i know you meant something else, but that's hilarious.
In models.qc
models.qc isn't used at all. it was just used by the ancient id modelling programs to create the model files with proper frame names and skins and such.
there are a few other .qc files that aren't used either, jctest, flag, amtest. sprites too i think.
Ha!
#104 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/03 22:09:44
there goes my lang again..,
and what the torrent meant, made me bitch.
I was puzling with the import of frames.
I used the eyecandy.qc "an entity with a configurable model and frames".
Bones uses a sprite and for some reason it made quake nasty to import it. So I used this eyecandy.qc and suddenly it was in game.
Then, when I wanted to import more animating models, they didn't appear in game.
I still don't know how it works, as I tried an animating frame of the crossbow arrow. In game only one frame appears.
We had this talk earlier about importing models. It seems as if sprites and mdl have a slightly other way to import.
#105 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/03 23:05:55
The $frame macros are simply a way of defining recognisable constant names for the numbers 0....n in a quick manner which only lasts for one qc file. The qc compiler has no knowledge of what the actual model file contains, so it just substitutes a frame number for each instance of $stand4 with a 3 - assuming that $stand4 is the 4th $frame that it encounters in the header.
(bold added by me)
from: http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
#106 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/04 10:39:01
I understand, but when using two models this option goes short, as the second model can't use frame #1 without further specifying, as it is in use with the first.
The only way to get by this, I think, is with fteqcc, which is more flexible in adding several kinds of entities with their own frames.
GL/RL
#107 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/09/04 10:45:45
me = fail
re: textures, scaling is generally bad! it's better to adjust the brushes to fit the textures rather than vice-versa. only time i ever do it is when i want a button or something to be 0.5 x 0.5
re: doors that can't open sideways - in this case i would pick a door texture that doesn't have 2 halves to it :)
Watch The Demo
#108 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/05 07:15:07
The first version I made with DeathmatchMaker had all textures straight.
But then I ported it to Quark and used default texture.
I decided to leave the textures as default comparing to the hexen2.wad.
In the street only the opening doors have a side tex,
despite of the one that's opening up. (where the GL is).
But that one stands out turned 45*, so it couldn't open aside.
I updated the demo, that's easier to explain what's in the level.
So if you watch it you'll understand, as well as the secrets.
Fuck
#109 posted by DjTheRolf [201.1.149.99] on 2010/09/09 02:39:07
http://www.celephais.net/board/ico...
.
#110 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/09 20:11:55
yourselve

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