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Posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/12 21:19:42
OK, You've heard the hype, you've got bored with it, and you've stopped listening. But it's actually happened - Duke Nukem Forever has shipped, and I'm playing it. I can honestly say that it's a great game! It's kinda old-school, but it's modern enough in it's game-play, it's very silly in places, and I think that it makes an authentic sequel to the original. The monster design is fantastic IMO and the level design really does have a great style. The game is very varied throughout, and it's full of surprises. I'm loving it - haven't even got to the desert levels yet.......

I Want An...
#1 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/06/12 21:26:36
.. ingame video to judge on it !! ;)
#2 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/12 21:36:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hd...
is one
Ok
#3 posted by spy [92.46.23.88] on 2011/06/12 22:01:21
right now i'm at the hive-2, and all thats assholes :shocked:
#4 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/06/12 22:31:27
Well I've heard a wide variety of opinions on it - from that its downright terrible to "I can honestly say that it's a great game!" so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Also, CZG pointed out that the person in the stall where the glory hole is located is actually a dude, so unless you're gay, don't stick your weiner in the glory hole. It's a trap.
Gotta Say
#5 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/12 22:46:44
those youtube vids don't really make me want to play. at all. :(
only two guns, typical 'lock the player in a tiny space and script monsters to spawn in small groups' style gameplay as like... every other shooter out there.
i also really hate hl2 right now for introducing infinite ammo crates. what a crutch. :(
it was funny when duke said 'pork chop sandwiches' though.
CZG Had Some Good Comments On This In #tf
#6 posted by Shambler [92.22.14.88] on 2011/06/12 22:47:49
Someone should post the log from yesterday morning, sounds like he was speaking sense for a change.
The Video
#7 posted by megaman [88.66.20.21] on 2011/06/12 23:26:15
does that guy play with reduced graphics settings or does it have the most horrible textures i've seen in a while?
#8 posted by mh [109.79.237.83] on 2011/06/12 23:43:08
It's gonna suffer a lot from Daikatana syndrome, isn't it? No matter how good or bad it might be, most people will already have a preconcieved opinion of it and that's what you're going to hear about more than anything else.
Haven't bought it yet, but I probably will soon enough. Sometime next week maybe.
OK, I Killed The Queen
#9 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/13 01:12:28
Now I've been playing for quite some time and made a lot of progress. I'm way out in the desert and I've done atleast 50 miles in my monster truck. I'm having a great time.
Here's some footage of that:
http://www.gamerfuzion.com/LaserBo...
That Youtube Video
#10 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/13 01:29:00
Was boring as hell. Doesn't look like I'm buying dnf.
#11 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/13 01:38:25
It's gonna suffer a lot from Daikatana syndrome, isn't it? No matter how good or bad it might be, most people will already have a preconcieved opinion of it and that's what you're going to hear about more than anything else.
for me, it's definitely the reverse-- it's been so long, i've forgotten any expectations i might have had.
#12 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/13 03:38:01
Duke 3D was meant to be Doom with a sense of humour.
DNF looked like it was going to be Half-Life with a sense of humour. Perhaps this would have been very funny in 2005. Anyhow, this idea got mashed through a CoD/Halo blender and we get this. Seems to have all the annoyances of modern shooters with none of the benefits of old school shooters, and the weapon limit for me is a complete killer, as gimmick weapons loose interest if you can't choose when to fuck around with them.
Also, perhaps I am older but every attempt in DNF to be juvenile just strikes me as desperate, like someone trying way too hard to get attention :p
Is that youtube recorded by the world's most boring man? He has Rocket launchers, railguns and he uses that sodding machine gun for 10 minutes...
Agree
#13 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/13 04:23:18
about the weapons and most of the jokes. But will probably get this anyways.
Up To Hoover Dam
#14 posted by quakis [81.111.135.140] on 2011/06/13 20:05:12
And enjoyed it a lot so far. Health regen and the two weapon limit barely bother me, seems like any excuse to trash the game based on something so minor in my opinion. That and probably what mh said. Also appears a lot of 'review' sites are hating for the sake of hating it. Kinda sad since it's simply a solid, old school style shooter.
Hm
#15 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/13 21:02:37
90% of the gaming press is dogshit.
30% is just wrong, 33% is paid by advertising for the games they 'review' the other 30% is pissed off because its either a) cool to be or b) they hate their job.
Maybe giving them a 10% valid rating is too generous.
Personal opinions are always much more useful.
7% Even
#16 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/13 21:02:58
Yes
#17 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/13 21:57:55
it started quite a while ago and it's been a downward spiral for reviews ever since.
now it's either all glowing praise with maybe one or two faults or it's barely over the level of flamebait, like the reviewer is trying to make up for all the good reviews by making his 5x worse.
and if the game had a large budget, you shouldn't even bother with reviews.
even if the review was fair and balanced, seems like all reviewers care about these days is graphics anyway. maybe a small blurb about loading times.
the best way to tell these days is to watch youtube gameplay videos, i guess.
that said, i have never been a fan of the halo two-weapon model. it distills the gameplay down too much. there are no options anymore. i noticed in the second part of the monster truck video, the player had the option to pick up a pistol (colt 1911 i think? whatever...). now, with only two weapons, you'd be pretty dumb to give up the firepower of a railgun or ripper. but at this point, it's not even an option because you'd penalize yourself too much.
and recharging health is just a way to avoid having to balance too much.
i don't know if the weirder duke weapons are in there like the freezer or shrinker, but i'd have a hard time justifying using them as opposed to straight up damage weapons like a shotgun or ripper with only two weapons to choose from.
as for recharging health:
you give a guy infinite ammo, recharging health and 1 tiny bit of cover and they can take out an entire army. there's no balancing going on here, it's just giving infinite resources and then the player just has to invest time to killing everything.
Hmm
#18 posted by nonentity [86.151.119.130] on 2011/06/14 02:24:36
In a note completely unrelated to DNF (other than it gets it wrong); I like recharging health. I just don't like it obviously recharging in combat.
The ideal would be to have your health recharge between fights to avoid the tedious backtracking to the health pack you left two rooms back so that you're full health for the next fight (no-one is honestly going to convince me that that is good gameplay design/fun/challenging. yes, I know, resource management, however, it's a primitive and archaic way to add such things to a game). However, if you have health regen after 2 seconds of not being shot (hi halo) then as necros points out, it just degrades into one man being able to kill an entire army by being a whack-a-mole-esque rodent. The one good thing about old style hp systems was the necessity to effectively manage a finite resource during combat situations.
The perfect balance would be have the player's hp regen to full after 30 or so seconds of not being shot in the face (the exact time would have to be determined through testing, but long enough to avoid the pop in, pop out, repeat style gameplay of a lot of modern shooters but short enough to not cause annoyance waiting between fights) but have an adrenaline/painkillers/whatever usable item that can be collected/horded and used to create a temporary increase in health during fights. Possibly with diminishing returns on repeat usage and a difficulty-variable rate of deteriation/decay. Voila, resource/collectable management, no backtracking, no grinding whack-a-mole gameplay. Oh, and if a player really wants to spend 30 seconds behind a pillar regening mid fight, I'd like to think that they've either (semi-)successfully evaded their opponents or (in these days of semi intelligent AI) the NPCs would flank/close and cause them a whole host more problems for trying to cower behind a crate mid gun fight.
So yeh. Nothing to do with DNF. (Haven't played it, don't want to play it, the joy of DN3D was the non-linearity, environmental interactivity and exciting gameplay/weapons. DNF seems to lack or undermine most of those. Even as a 14 year old, the appeal was not Duke Nukem. Duke Nukem is an arse.)
Oh, and the RPS review seems pretty fair.
#19 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/14 03:19:18
"have your health recharge between fights"
Just have check points like Painkiller then :E
Although in painkiller they didn't heal on trauma difficulty :p
How Does This Sound
#20 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/14 05:57:15
A risk system. As you take hits your risk bar increases - if it maxes out then you've taken a critical hit and are killed.
To lower your risk you must do awesome stuff, like killing enemies. The more awesome the feats you perform the more your risk is reduced.
So, scoring more points reduces your risk further.
Its similar to vampirism, but scoring a massive combo reduces your risk to empty almost immediately, even if you took a lot of damage doing it.
#21 posted by Yhe1 [71.160.150.186] on 2011/06/14 08:38:34
Heard that there were rape jokes in this, how bad are they?
Rape Spoilers
#22 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2011/06/14 09:29:33
Half-way through the game Duke enters the alien hive where all the kidnapped women are held and impregnated (raped) by aliens. He finds the twins that give him a blowjob in the beginning of the game and they apologize for being fat. (apologize for being pregnant (apologize for being raped)) Duke tells them they are fucked (by aliens). Then they explode into gibs and baby octabrains.
NSFW youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Y...
The first part of the game is full of misogynistic, dumb, juvenile shit like that. Women prance around with their breasts in full view all over the place. Faggs cigarettes. Absolutely every brand name or name or actually any text at all in the entire game is some sort of pun on either shit, piss or genitals. In the alien hive there are for no reason clusters of breasts hanging from the wall, you can slap these and gain a health bonus. After defeating the alien hive queen (who also has three giant tits) Duke passes out. Then begins a dream sequence where Duke is in a strip club and has to go on a fetch quest to find popcorn, condoms and a dildo. It comes completely out of nowhere, I wish I was making this up.
Everything about the Duke character has become unlikeable trash. He used to be some goofy muscle dude who spouted lame one-liners and gave cash to strippers. Now he's some gross ego-trip of a teenage, objectivist fantasy; Endlessly narcissistic, everyone in the game world adores him and literally wants to suck his cock. He just comes off as such an amazingly repulsive person.
Then the actual game:
Two weapon limit is straight out dumb. It is only there for consoles that easily could have gotten around it with some other weapon selection system.
The vehicle sections are passable, but could have used a lot more polish. The turret scenarios are boring and should have been removed.
Regenerating health is very boring and leads to a lot of just sitting behind cover when you really want to just run up to some monster and shoot it in the face.
But you know?
Besides all this shit?
I think the gameplay was actually good. It is old-school. You circle-strafe aliens and kill them. The weapons are good. (Except the shrinkray and freezer and a lack of ammo at times.)
Enemy variety is good, and only one of them (pig cops) have a hitscan weapon. That's right, you can dodge incoming projectiles! It owns!
There are a couple of underwater levels! That is awesome!
Some of the leveldesign is interesting. Some. Not all.
There are the cool levels where you are shrunken and you get to run around fighting on shelves and stuff, like those gimmick Q3A levels someone made.
There are jumping puzzles. I know I am in the minority, but I love jumping puzzles.
Some areas look really good. (Others look really bad, but not offensively so.)
I took a bunch of screenshots and annotated them while playing: http://steamcommunity.com/id/czg/s...
I played this on a PC with every setting on max, post-processing OFF (because it looks like shit, though I usually love stuff like that).
Installed it on an SSD, so load times were 3-4 secs per level, I hear consoles have really bad load times, upwards of 40-50 secs.
So in conclusion, is this a good game?
No.
It starts horrible, gets better as it goes but keeps inserting amazingly bad low points throughout, the ending sucks, and the subject matter of the game is horrific garbage that no reasonable person above the age of 13 would enjoy.
It is a terrible game. Nobody should spend money on this.
Everybody should play it though... so please go ahead and warez it.
LOL.
#23 posted by Shambler [86.25.166.173] on 2011/06/14 09:55:37
CZG FTW.
I Forgot The One Thing That Made Me Laugh
#24 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2011/06/14 10:41:04
At the top of the Duke Burger Tower I found two frisbees lying about. I threw one, a generic green one, and it sailed out far, far across the Las Vegas skyline, and I got a health boost.
Then I threw the other one, labeled with the 3DRealms logo, and it fell like a rock.
In hindsight, it was probably just a physics bug, but I laughed at that.
Lack Of Weapons
#25 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/14 10:51:01
I didnt find this to be a problem at all. Pipe-bombs make a welcome return, and there are always plenty of them lying around. They get their own button. (so now we have three weapons, not two). Also trip-mines get their own button too, so now we have four weapons. After you have unloaded your weapons into a bunch of aliens, there are always weapons lying on the ground. So it really was not a problem.
#26 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/14 12:24:27
Well the arena based combat now makes trip mines actually look fucking useful for a change :p
Good Review Czg
#27 posted by nitin [124.148.180.34] on 2011/06/14 13:24:12
entertaining and informative.
#28 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/14 18:20:52
Watched the Giant Bomb Quick Look. Oh lord it looks quite pathetic really...
Should be able to play it myself later since a housemate has a copy.
#29 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/14 18:21:24
And sounds like czg is dead on about the horrible tone and 'humour'.
Czg
#30 posted by gb [46.142.9.213] on 2011/06/14 18:44:42
It's that bad? Wow.
Played It, Finished It
#31 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/16 03:03:40
Avoiding talking about the style element, and purely looking at mechanics, it feels like a fairly tepid shooter here with irritating nods to modern shooters and a horribly excessive amount of fluff placed on top. This to me makes it actually quite a fascinating design study, in the way it 'spans the eras' of shooters.
You move slowly, you have a tiny FoV, and lowish ammo counts. So avoiding damage without cover is frustrating. The pig-cops with guns can't be dodged at all. The big guys with cluster rockets are bloody annoying as they home in a slow drunken path so again, just dodging round is irritating. And the Octabrains now have splash damage, so again, given how limited space often is, you just keep taking chip damage all the time.
At this point, recharging health is essentially because you are just expected to tank damage a lot of the time.
The weapon limit is utterly retarded, leaving no room for having giggles with gimmicks when YOU want to, and left to wait until the developers have made a little play pen for you to have your silly fun. You also have low ammo counts, and I sodding hate having to constantly run around looking for guns on the floor to pick up or running back to that ammo cache and then using it. Let me just focus on pumping lead into shit and avoiding damage. Oh and I hate sprint buttons too.
Most of all though, the game wants to be Half-Life 2. It's full of puzzles and areas that are completely ripped from Half-Life 2. It's kinda embarressing really. Vehicles were okay though. Turret sequences should be fired into the sun.
Pacing wise I think it really shows how much better Valve are at this sort of thing. DNF feels like it has two modes: No enemies, hopping around trying to find where the hell to go. Or, all out combat with enemy spawning. There's barely any monsters just placed around as you explore, so the pacing just flip-flops constantly. Furthermore, these non-combat sections would be okay but they are soooo long and sooooo many of them and oooooh god it's not so clever that entire levels should be given over to jumping around on kitchen shelves.
Also the digs at other games are just embarressing :p
Weapons:
The Ripper: made a lot of noise, did okay damage and had annoying spread. basically a clone of HL2's SMG.
Shotgun: Probably the most satisfying weapon overall, but has awful damage fall off, meaning the boring ripper wins out in efficiency.
Shrink-ray: I only found this once whilst playing through. Whatever, same as the original really.
Rocket Launcher: Five limit meant blowing up normal enemies a lot isn't much of an option. Feels kind of sluggish, lock on is boring, Half-Life guiding = much better.
Freeze-Ray: Not as powerful as it once was, thought it was arse really.
Devastator: They nerfed it pretty badly really. It used to gib pretty much any enemy with two shots. Now you end up pumping more rockets in just to kill normal enemies. They're slow, has a lower ammo count, yea, really unsatisfying for me.
Trip Mines/Pipe Bombs: Credit where it is due, these work well, and arena based fighting means trip mines are very useful
The holoduke was actually useful, but the steroids were annoying. Several times I activated them by accident in a fight and I'm stuck with my damns fists out for a tedious amount of time.
Finally though, the real cracker is that this game feels like it has nothing really new over Duke 3D. Hell it could pretty much just be a remake. Barely any new weapons, barely any new enemies save headcrabs and those drunken rocket gits. The alien style levels were in Duke 3D, Duke burger was in Duke 3D... fucks sake didn't you think of more weapons more monsters or anything over 12 years? The final boss is the same as the start which is the same as the end of Duke 3D anyway.
Czg's Review Is Pretty Accurate
#32 posted by negke [89.204.153.136] on 2011/06/16 09:16:26
It isn't a good game by all means. But it's not as bad as some review sites put it. If it had been released in its current form some six years earlier, if would have been more acceptable/accepted. At least it's better than FEAR.
Fairly mediocre graphics, but I guess you can't really blame them.
The similarities to HL2 are there, but then again, I'm pretty sure Valve stole the ideas from the DNF team! At least they tried to add some variation to the otherwise generic FPS gameplay. I thought the miniature shrunk jumping sections were a refreshing change.
Story and characters are stupid and pointless at best, and the levels feel kind of random and disconnected. Part of the reason for this might be the fadeout levelchanges. Often I thought "how and why did I get here".
It has a "shit ending" indeed. Please no sequel or DLC.
Oh well, at least it's out. The end of an era. Though you won't miss anything at all if you don't play it.
the real cracker is that this game feels like it has nothing really new over Duke 3D
Unlike Doom 3, or Quake 4, or AvP, or most other 'sequels'? :P
Heh - I'm Gonna Defend DNF
#33 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/16 10:24:07
I thought it was great! Completed it last night also. The game is pretty much epic. Took me a lot longer than I thought it was to complete the game. I found it refreshing - less time wasted on cutscenes, and more action.
The boss fights were my favourite. Good to see a propper FPS with propper boss-fights. I didn't have any problems with the fact you could only carry two guns - it made the game more interesting because you had to do quick thinking sometimes to locate and then grab another gun.
nothing new over Duke 3d
Apart from vehicles, puzzles, NPC's, bigger, better maps/GFX etc - no, er, nothing.....
Tepid Shall Be My New Word
#34 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/16 11:37:27
Unlike Doom 3, or Quake 4, or AvP, or most other 'sequels'? :P
Doom 3 is is a weird one to drop cause it was arse :p
Doom 3 and Quake 4 weren't so long in development, nor did the game they were based on essentially stand on gimmicks and fluff.
vehicles - omg a vehicle sequence in an FPS, say it ain't so.
NPCs - like every shooter since 1998 :p also duke 3d had NPCs, they just didn't do anything :)
I'd say you've listed other sequels that were pretty meh. An example of a good sequel for me would be, say, Gears of War 2. The basics were the same, but they tweaked weapons, added cool new ones, added some fun monsters and generally expanded the experience.
After so long I'm just stunned that it barely has a single original idea of it's own. Anything new it had was obviously taken from other more polished shooters. It's Duke 3D minus the freedom and with HD graphics! Whoopie.
Gears 2 Wasn't My Cup Of Tea
#35 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/16 11:53:22
TBH. The game couldn't have been more 'on the rails' if it tried. And the post-processing - urgh - "let's make everything the same shit-brown colour". And I find the script and voice acting in Gears of Shit 2 really painful. It's just hard to listen to all of these post-apocalyptic human soldiers of the future talking like they are all teenagers on the footbal team. Poo.
Doom3 is one of my favourite games of all time, I just love the atmosphere and the intensity of some of the later battles.
#36 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/16 12:06:28
Oh yeah, I hate the Gears story, graphics, characters, plot etc. But the gunplay in Gears 2 was smooth. That it was on rails didn't bother me, practically every shooter now is.
I'll clarify my point about Duke 3D/DNF: It has nothing that wasn't either in Duke 3D or from 1998/2004 :p
ZQF
#37 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2011/06/16 12:57:32
So what could DNF have done that wasn't in the original or any other game since then?
It does sound like the level of vulgarity is a first for a FPS, and not in a good way.
But what can ANY FPS bring that hasn't been done before?
Doom 3 Is A Good Game
#38 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.205] on 2011/06/16 13:02:19
From the sounds of it dnf does not have much of what was in duke3d
#39 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/16 13:26:58
But what can ANY FPS bring that hasn't been done before?
Mirror's Edge, L4D and Portal did new and interesting things. I'm not even asking for stuff that dramatic, but simply that their is what, three new weapons? A laser, a railgun and a drunken rocket thing. Woo. Duke 3D is famous for it's crazy gimmicks. This gives you nothing new, and in fact takes away from how much you could use such stuff.
No weird or wacky monster ideas, no hilarious new weapons or gadgets. It feels lazy. It lacks any real imagination in its gameplay, adding no colour to the FPS experience other than the overlong mini-games, which are completely detached from the actual fighting.
Doom 3
#40 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/17 04:24:30
I remembered it as being bad, but just replayed it and really enjoyed it! The story is stupid, and the 'hallways turn red and bad guy laughs' effect gets old quick but remains til the end.
Strangely, I remembered hell section as being my favourites, but now I feel completely different - also, bosses were kind of off.
I don't give a fuck if shooters are on a rail, if the rail is well made... but the 2 gun thing has me nonplussed.
#41 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 05:12:17
Doom 3 is an okay game. It does a few things right, like having a pretty kickass arsenal (even though many of the weapons sound kinda weak), the plasma rifle being my favorite, some interesting monster design and setpieces and at times an intense atmosphere. But when I replayed it a year or so ago, I realised it just drags on for far too long without really presenting any new or interesting mechanics to the player. It should have ended right about after you've been to hell for the first time, but then you're only about two thirds through the game, with about 5-6 hours of monster closets and repetitive combat left. I felt like they couldn't really decide if they wanted an old-school shooter or a horror game.
As for DNF, yeah it looks pretty fucking bad from the streams and youtube videos I've seen. Only two weapons, regenerating health and a degenerated Duke - doesn't fit the gameplay or the character. Top this with some really bland level design and embarrassing character interaction and you've got yourself a turd. Such a shame too, as the 2001 version looked absolutely fantastic and could easily have been one of the best FPS games ever if the trailer was any indication, but I guess Broussard was too far up his own ass to realise that.
#42 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/17 08:44:22
But when I replayed it a year or so ago, I realised it just drags on for far too long without really presenting any new or interesting mechanics to the player.
yeah, there's no escalation in d3. hellknights and mancubi were the strongest thing you meet until the cyberdemon.
there was a distinct lack of monster variety at the upper level of monster strength.
i still love the game though. :)
Berntsen
#43 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/17 12:14:58
I dare you to play Duke Nukem Forever and not enjoy it.
only two weapons at any single time - there are plenty weapons in the game.
regenerating health regenerating EGO is not the same as health.
bland level design How? Bland compared to what exactly?
degenerated Duke Duke is a degenrate. Period. He always was! He swears, makes sexist remarks, and spouts bad one-liners. To cut that part out would be like Sonic The Hedgehog - BALD.
Seriously though - you should play the game before you bash it. It's a really fun game.
#44 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 13:31:01
I'll certainly try out DNF at some point, but not when it's at full price. Maybe when (if?) there's a public demo released or something.
I got the impression that it's just a mish-mash of ideas taken from different games without cohesion and putting any thought into how they actually work or if they'd even fit the style of the game. For instance, the two-weapon limit and regenerating health (yeah just because it's named "ego" doesn't hide the fact it functions almost exactly as regen health) - this hurts both level design and gameplay, in my opinion. Gameplay because it's harder to actually stay in combat and get up close to enemies, as after two-three hits you're forced to take cover, which doesn't make any sense when you consider the title character and the previous games - Duke is supposed to be a testosterone filled one-man-army that can slaughter tons upon tons of aliens while carrying 15 weapons with ammo for each, and now he's forced to take cover every few hits like some pansy? It also makes the gameplay less frantic and fast-paced like it was in DN3D, only accentuated by the slow movement speed. And he can bench-press the equivalent of a car, but can't carry more than two weapons at once?
The reason I said this hurts level design is because the two-weapon limit and regenerating health/ego/whatever effectively removes the need for exploration seeing as your healthbar just recharges, so there isn't longer any need to hide powerups like atomic health and portable medkits (oh, and no more jetpack powerup either) in secret areas and thus encouraging exploration. And you'll find most weapons conveniently laid out along your path, especially if there's a boss coming up - I've seen some people say the two weapon limit makes the game more "strategic", but when you get everything served to you on a plate when you need it anyway, it becomes a moot point. And really - is Duke supposed to be strategic? Isn't it more about blowing shit up with tons of creative and insane weapons? Imagine Quake with a slow movement speed (no bunny/trickjumping), limited to holding two weapons, having to constantly take cover, next to no powerups - ugh no.
Seeing as there is less need for exploration due to these two things, the game becomes more linear, which is also reflected in the Half-Life 2-like cutscenes which brings the action to a halt and forces the player to wait it out ("Oh, that game did a thing! We need it too!"). Is Duke about story? Hell no, just let me blow shit up damnit!
As for taking ideas from other games with any cohesion, the weapon limit, health and cutscenes are prime examples of this - Call of Duty and Halo has them, and I guess it works there seeing as they're (especially CoD) strictly linear games depending on cinematic setpieces, but Duke was never about that - forcing the player into situations like the cutscenes just prevents them from doing what I suspect most would like to, and that's to run around like a roid-raging crazy man while hurling pipebombs in one direction, kicking a pigcop in the face and then taking off with your jetpack while firing off your rocket launcher like a maniac. As it is, this sadly doesn't seem possible any longer.
And about Duke's character (besides him becoming a pansy due to cover etc) - the oneliners really aren't funny, clever or witty anymore, and I won't even mention the hive rapce scene thing. Duke used to be about killing aliens while spouting movie quotes and generally being witty, but now he seems more like a permanently pissed off dude - "Douche", "Quit bleedin', pussy" - and the scripted lines just seem to lack any punchline or wit whatsoever. Killing the octaking: "There can be only one king... you fuck", really? There was a few times when watching the runthrough I literally cringed at these. He seems more like a parody of himself now, than a parody of 80-90's action movie heroes/clichés.
Still, I haven't actually tried the game myself, so maybe I'll change my opinion on some of these things when I do, and if you enjoy it, then I'm glad! More power to you.
Hmmm
#45 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/17 14:17:28
I appreciate the open-mindedness of the post, but you haven't played the game, and this is apparent because a lot of your assumptions are wrong.
The EGO not being health - "ahah!" I cry! It is not the same as health because EGO is regenerated by killing enemies. This doesn't happen in other shooters, and it means that you can effectively go on a rampage, taking damage, but not having to take cover all the time because if you calculate your risks well you can take damage and then complete a kill (or an execution) and continue onwards....
Cutscenes - there really aren't many cutscenes in this game. Infact I am having trouble thinking of any cutscenes.
The hive-rape-humour thing. I must have missed this. There is a part where the girls are talking to duke and he says "you look, er, fucked". And they do - they are impregnated by aliens in the hive. I fail to see how this is a sick joke. Duke Nukem 3D had the same thing in it - girls bonded up in a hive.
Jetpack - there are jetpacks in Duke Forever. Especially in multiplayer......
Ricky = ZealousDukeFan
#46 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 14:48:17
Come on now, EGO is the same as health. It's only regenerated by killing enemies when you execute them, but that doesn't happen every time. Okay, that's something that not all games have, but using this to argue against regenerating health critics seems seems odd.
There are plenty of weapons scattered around so the 2-weapon restriction isn't so extreme. But they all have very limited ammo and sometimes it's just nice to be able to switch to the weapon best suited for a situation without having to look for it first, e.g. rpg.
I Dunno
#47 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/17 15:03:12
I'm no fanboi, this is just a passing thing, a game comes out, I play it, it's good, I'll play it again because it was fun the first time and I haven't tried the harder difficulty yet.
Just annoys me how people can slander it so much when they haven't played it. And slagging a game off because it has cutscenes, when there are no cutscenes - also seems unfair.
And you can execute enemies, and do other things which boost your ego, and this is a combat-gameplay dynamic which is different to just "auto-regen health". And to say otherwise, and go at length to slander a game because of things which aren't true - well this is a bit silly.
I'd hate to play this imaginary version of Duke Nukem Forever, it sounds terrible. I dread to think what it must be like.....
The version which I paid for is great fun!
#48 posted by Scampie [72.12.65.92] on 2011/06/17 15:32:03
yet another worthless, terrible, generic fps game. nothing to advance the genre, nothing redeeming in it's gameplay, horrible design decisions.
and even ignoring it's gameplay, it's childish, disgusting humor is just completely uncalled for. i'm embarrassed to call myself a game developer when shit like this comes out.
Shhh
#49 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/06/17 15:57:23
Imagine Quake with a slow movement speed (no bunny/trickjumping), limited to holding two weapons, having to constantly take cover, next to no powerups
Let's not give gb ideas here...
From The Demo
#50 posted by Zwiffle [71.86.226.202] on 2011/06/17 16:43:03
I never thought of Duke as the kind of character who would pick up feces and fling it at anyone or anything. This is not the Duke Nukem, that as a young boy, I wanted to grow up being.
#51 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 16:43:33
Something I think could work better than the current system, if they absolutely had to go with the ego thing, would be if you got ego boosts by actually doing something really spectacular and bad-ass. Like say, kicking a battlelord to death while on steroids, or killing five pigcops at once with a bunch of pipebombs, not by doing mundane stuff like playing pinball, throwing frisbees or slapping alien wall-tits (what the hell).
You Do Get An EGO Boost
#52 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/17 16:48:10
From doing those kind of things. The poo throwing thing - well I didnt see that because i didnt pick up any poo from any toilets.
You get an ego boost from killing monsters in a spectacular way, you get to rip monsters horns off and shove them in their eyes, you get to feild-goal-kick a bosses' eye. I repeat - you get EGO from killing monsters.
#53 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 16:51:08
But those things are more like quick-time events though, right? Like climbing on top of the cycloid emperor and having to tap a button to rip out the hydraulic tubes or whatever, and then kicking the eye through the goal as part of a script. I'm thinking more of things you do while you're in the action, without having to stop and tap a button repeatedly.
#54 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 16:59:09
You get permanent EGO boots from boss monsters, and the spectacular ways only work for boss monsters too. Interacting with certain objects in the works increases your max EGO too, like taking a piss or throwing a frisbee. You don't get EGO for regular monsters, but if you manage to stun them and perform an execution move, it instantly refills your meter (only ever worked with pigcops for me iirc). And your health automatically regenerates after a couple of seconds if you don't get hit.
*objects In The World
#55 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 16:59:48
I'd Like Me A Pair Of Ego Boots As Well
#56 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 17:10:33
Just kidding.
But that's my point concerning the ego boosts - why do you get it by doing mundane things like taking a piss? It'd be better if you got it by performing some amazing feat that isn't just restricted to execution moves, scripted sequences or interacting with world objects.
There's this fantastic DN3D mod called "Weapons of Mass Destruction" where you have all sorts of insane abilites, like setting off a timed nuke and additional kick types (and in DNF, the mighty boot is gone completely except as an execution move. Shame). Really over the top, which is what I wanted to see come out of DNF. This is the only video I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5j...
Gotta reinstall this...
#57 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 17:17:09
You get it because it's Duke and it's silly jokes like that that carry the game. This isn't really something I would hold against the game.
Other games also increase your health if you find certain items which is basically the same.
And sometimes there's a bit more to it - minigames like pool billard or getting the highscore on a pinball table. Or benchpressing 600 pounds for which, I think, you have to find an additional weight disc and find a way to return, so it's almost like a secret/achievement.
Seems like a non-issue to argue about. Or rather, the game has more pressing flaws to critize.
#58 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 17:23:09
The benchpress and having to hunt for a weight disc is actually a pretty good idea though, definitely suits Duke. Would have been neat if you'd get an even greater boost if you'd do the benchpress after drinking a few beers, but I digress.
Ricky Is The Target Audience.
#59 posted by Spirit [80.171.83.217] on 2011/06/17 17:30:14
Hmm
#60 posted by than [180.144.105.161] on 2011/06/17 18:19:39
So far I've got as far as the first level with a lot of swimming and am generally having fun. By fun, I can go so far as to say that it's enjoyable.
Some section of the game have been a lot of fun; The shrunken platforming sections were great, and there have been a few memorable battles that were memorable because they were epic and involved me nearly running out of ammo or actually running out of ammo and having to use steroids to take out a commander (the flying fat things that say "suck it down" and "die human" a lot). The monster truck driving section was fun in parts, and the hoover dam and duke burger levels were pretty decent.
However, there is so much in the game (so far) that just feels terribly unfinished. Most combats involve a bunch of enemies spawning when you enter a room, pull a switch or get an item. This is ok in itself, but not when the fight is just endlessly spawning dual pistol insta-hit pig-cops and then when its over there is nothing for 10 minutes. Also, as several people have pointed out, the game borrows many ideas from Half-Life 2, but nothing is pulled of quite as well as in Half-Life 2. The physics puzzles are more tedious, the driving section less interesting... well, everything I've seen in Duke that has been done in Half-Life 2 has been done better by Valve.
I have a pretty juvenile sense of humour, so I still laugh at toilet humour and enjoyed the stupid poop trailer, thinking it was an indicator of the level of interactivity you would get in the game in general. Unfortunately, although there are many things you can play around with, there are many instances where there is something you really want to do but cannot. Near the beginning of the game there is a scene aping the famous incident during the filming of Terminator 4 where Christian Bale starts shouting at a sound guy. In this case, you can punch the guy who is in the role of Bale to shut him the fuck up, but there is not a single friendly npc in the game (so far) that you can do any harm to, aside from the women in the alien hive. When the boy asks for Dukes autograph at the start of the game I wanted to punch him and his father in the face, but it wasn't possible :(
As I was saying about the humour, it's something I thought I would like, but to be honest, most of Duke's one-liners aren't funny or are just copied directly from Duke 3d or 80s movies (I liked the "you think this is the real Duke? It is!" line from Total recall though), and the sex and toilet humour just isn't working. I thought the poop would be more fun, but it was kind of boring and the only one that was reacting to it was duke himself.
There was one bit on the Hoover dam where a troop gets crushed that I laughed at, but moments like that are few and far between.
In general, I agree with CZG and ZealousQuakeFan about the game so far. It does seem to have generally gotten better and better as I've played it, so hopefully the last few levels will be better.
By the way, how long has it taken people to finish?
#61 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/17 18:37:50
13 hours haha.
I read the Rock-Paper-Shotgun review, and whilst i think it a bit cynical (naturally) i think it is fair. I guess I fall into the category of people who are defending it XD.
Ricky Help
#62 posted by spy [178.88.84.192] on 2011/06/17 20:06:50
i'm stuck in the hive-2, near the explosive container and dead marine , don't know where i have to go next
screenies
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
#63 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 20:13:00
I remember watching that part... think you have to throw a pipebomb at the jumping pad thingy and then detonate it once it lands in the opening with the ball.
Ok , Thanks
#64 posted by spy [178.88.84.192] on 2011/06/17 20:33:06
just figure out by watching utube wt
Onetruepurple
#65 posted by gb [46.142.57.179] on 2011/06/18 19:35:44
Let's not give gb ideas here...
Dude... How long has it been since you ragequit RMQ? Isn't it time to move on instead of posting offtopic shit in some thread about Duke Nukem?
.
#66 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/18 22:10:33
.
.
#67 posted by ijed [190.22.70.195] on 2011/06/19 07:23:39
Why Is The World Fucking Retarded
#68 posted by ijed [190.22.70.195] on 2011/06/19 07:32:55
I just deleted a post.
Enjoy this empty space.
Did you?
Finished It
#69 posted by than [180.144.105.161] on 2011/06/19 07:36:40
It definitely got better toward the end of the game and overall I think it was a fun, if ultimately average shooter, with a lot of shit toward the first third that is likely to stop many people playing early on.
The unlockable stuff you get when you finish the game is pretty neat, and watching some of the trailers makes you wonder just what kind of state the game was really in back in 1998 and 2001 when 3DR released those early (awesome) trailers. The 2001 trailer in particular makes the game look like it would have been awesome. Maybe it was all smoke and mirrors?
Than
#70 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/06/19 11:55:33
There's a breakdown of the 2001 trailer by an ex-3DR employee here:
http://forums.duke4.net/topic/4164...
Onetruepurple
#71 posted by than [180.144.105.161] on 2011/06/19 14:17:30
Thanks for that. Seems like a lot of it was playable back then, so I wonder why they completely ditched all that and started over.
I wonder if George B was worried about the game looking dated next to the other games coming out around then... but what was there that was comparable? Wolfenstein? Medal of Honour? Fuck that. They should have finished what they had back then and made loads of money instead of an industry running joke that lasted more than a decade.
#72 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2011/06/19 23:57:26
Perhaps it still had 2 years of development, by which time it'd be close to 2004's Doom3, Half-Life2, FarCry. And how would it look compare to those games? Probably utter shit, even for 2001 that trailer looks a little bit dated.
But yeah I would still have finished it instead of starting all over again.
Really Not Interested
#73 posted by bear [217.115.56.186] on 2011/06/20 16:33:42
most of Duke's one-liners aren't funny or are just copied directly from Duke 3d or 80s movies (I liked the "you think this is the real Duke? It is!" line from Total recall though)
Wasn't Duke 3D's one-liners copied from 80s movies too though?
Shitty Game With Stupid Unfair Game Play Moments
#74 posted by spy [92.47.191.207] on 2011/06/20 17:51:37
eg. an underwater battle with the snake-boss, very limited air supply and only 5 rockets to finish the boss. water movement is choppy and all that jazz. fuck it
#75 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/22 12:25:23
Yeah the fact that they didn't give you the fucking scuba gear... one of the main aids to fun exploration in Duke 3D.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at a Take Two board meeting, when they discuss the current financial value of the Duke name and whether it's worth funding a sequel.
"Yeah sure, just don't let George near it..."
OK, Well Theres One Thing To Check Off The List:
#76 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/07/30 20:18:57
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...
An official patch which allows you to carry 4 guns instead of 2 - yay!!!
#77 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/07/30 20:19:27
If they just released tools we would fix the game up proper anyway.
Really?
#78 posted by than [180.144.105.161] on 2011/08/03 16:54:32
you want to spend another 12 years fixing up this game?
Me Personally?
#79 posted by Zwiffle [71.86.226.202] on 2011/08/03 17:17:56
No, but I think a dedicated community, as has been done countless times before, can fix almost anything. The Duke Nukem fans probably deserve a chance for a decent Duke Nukem game, they can do it better than 3d Realms/Gearbox could.
#80 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/03 17:24:03
bleh just join that team remaking Duke 3D in UDK. Maybe rip a few assets out... although you'd have to fix the walk cycles, holy shit that was one of the funniest things in the game.
Hmmmm
#81 posted by RickyT23 [86.140.233.0] on 2011/08/23 11:06:09
http://fudzilla.com/games/item/238...
More Duke eh? Could be (good) better!!
#82 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2011/08/23 13:11:47
Cool. And I see Crytek are working on a new game (not Crysis or FarCry). Maybe a new IP...

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