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Posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2002/12/23 18:31:29
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor. For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...

Waitaminute...
#1 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.153] on 2002/12/23 21:30:55
What if I have a bezier patch on my crack? I mean, do I need a shot or something?
.
#2 posted by underworldfan [172.159.113.198] on 2002/12/24 00:26:14
lol
This Thread Is Obsolete
#3 posted by Vodka [80.70.227.43] on 2002/12/24 22:51:31
Are there really any people that need mapping help ?
Sure...
#4 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.47] on 2002/12/24 23:12:57
I mean, unlike you, who knows EVERYTHING about mapping and never, EVER have any problems getting things running.
Well
#5 posted by daftpunk [194.217.194.138] on 2003/01/05 15:05:07
i think so cos its useful as a discussion to solve bugs and other stuff even if some guys are "PROS". after all. not everyone is a l33t sp mapper.
Q1 Mapping In Wc3.3
#6 posted by seth [158.152.186.247] on 2003/01/14 21:50:54
like, hello, wtf is going on with teleports? Or am i just being dumbass cos i havent mapped since god knows when?
.
#7 posted by necros [172.171.237.128] on 2003/01/15 19:20:26
<quote>Or am i just being dumbass cos i havent mapped since god knows when?</quote>
it's possible... ;)
seriously, make sure the info_teleport_destination has enough room for the player, and make sure the target/targetnames match up.
it would be nice to know a little more of your problem though, dude...
2 Questions
#8 posted by Snaga [217.211.219.80] on 2003/01/18 07:24:20
1:
To bring more contrast in a map using Q1rad I'd like to change the radius of an ordinary light without changing the brightness.
(Sort of like the _cone2 function for a light_spot)?
Is this possible?
2:
When starting up the map I get: edict.. yada yada... 'pitch' is not a field.
As far as i know I fed in proper values for the pitch of the light source and it displays correct in the map so no nead to worrie or..?!
Is it a question or my .fgd file not being able to handle this pitch function for Q1rad?
But 'pitch' ISN'T A Field!
#9 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/01/18 10:25:28
it really isn't a field, in Quake at least. Most custom light compilers make their extra field names start with underscore so that the engine will ignore them. Example: _wait, _color, etc. If q1rad has a 'pitch' field added, then you're going to have to put up with the in-game warnings, unless you remove it from the bsp after running q1rad. I think this can be done with a program that tyrann wrote that remove everything except the 'classname' and 'light' fields from a light entity. Or maybe it's 'classname' and 'origin.' Look around for it.
For Lights In A Bsp,
#10 posted by necros [172.168.222.43] on 2003/01/18 17:45:06
only the classname is important. (and any target/targetname fields too). the actual entity is not even needed (i think) if the light is non-switchable, since all the lighting is already pasted onto the walls from the light utility. if you don't have tyrann's program, just go in edit.exe, (or notepad) and replace 'pitch' with '_pitch'.
Sounds Interesting!
#11 posted by Snaga [217.211.219.80] on 2003/01/20 05:59:43
Thanks, I'll try to get my bsp-act together :)
No way to change the radius (question1) I guess!?
Yea
#12 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.29] on 2003/01/21 14:37:42
I'd like to know this too. It's quite difficult to light an area correctly if that light that will do it has to be blindingly bright... :(
More Contrst With Radiocity
#13 posted by Spee [217.195.94.198] on 2003/01/22 00:58:08
lower -bounce #
Well Yes..
#14 posted by Snaga [217.211.219.80] on 2003/01/22 19:27:24
but that is like -scale: lowering the range of all the lights in the map...
Ere
#15 posted by re [217.195.70.70] on 2003/01/23 00:54:36
its not really
lazy to explain, just try it
less bounce - more contrast
Netvis For Q1
#16 posted by [Jimbo] [216.12.62.107] on 2003/01/24 20:17:29
Is there a netvis version for quake?
I saw it there ->>
http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/...
but the link is dead.
anyone have this util?
Hmm
#17 posted by Vodka [81.3.153.4] on 2003/01/25 00:07:25
You could run Beowulf or some distributed computing software if you want to run vis on many PCs
Refering To #15
#18 posted by Snaga [217.211.219.80] on 2003/01/25 16:07:53
lazy to explain, but it's not the answer to Wazat's and my question.
Win Xp And Worldcraft
#19 posted by :=) [205.188.209.104] on 2003/01/25 23:54:29
In case you missed the thread I posted...here again is my desperate plea for help...
I am having a lot of trouble getting Worldcraft v1.6a to work properly with Windows XP. I did not have these types of problems when running Worldcraft on Windows 98. The problems generally result when trying to compile a map.
Here is an error that I am currently getting:
A window pops up after attempting to run the map: “The file C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e was not built, do you want to continue”
__________________________________...
When I click “Yes” I get a new window with the following error:
“The command failed. Windows reported the error: “Invalid Argument” Do you want to continue?”
__________________________________...
So I click Yes again and I get the following Error:
Quake Error: “W_LoadWadFile: couldn’t load gfx.wad”
__________________________________...
A separate “Process Window” is also open from the time of the first error message and the following is diplayed:
** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\LIGHT.EXE
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e
----- LightFaces ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp: No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\Vis.exe
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e
---- vis ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp: No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: c:\quake\winquake.exe
The command failed. Windows reported the error:
"Invalid argument"
** Executing...
** Command: C:\QUAKE\winquake.exe
** Parameters: +map Test1e
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\QUAKE\OURMAP~1\Test1e.map... "C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.map...
** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\QBSP.EXE
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e
outputfile: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp
************ ERROR ************
Token too large on line 3
__________________________________...
Can anyone offer some help with this problem and get me back on track with my map making hobby?
I am most grateful
:=)
I would also be grateful to learn if anyone is using a better editor for making Quake 1 maps, or if they have a program(s) that can compile and/or decompile maps.
Dude
#20 posted by Vondur [195.128.67.197] on 2003/01/28 05:38:38
try this
place in the directory where your .map file is all the idutils, i.e. qbsp.exe, vis.exe, light.exe
open dosprompt, and go to that dir
and run all the compilers manually, i.e.
qbsp.exe yourmap.map
vis.exe yourmap.bsp
light.exe yourmap.bsp
if there will be any errors, report
and of course, youse gtkradiant to make q1 maps (www.qeradiant.com)
Thanks I'll Try It!
#21 posted by :=) [12.27.23.250] on 2003/01/28 13:39:02
Vondur,
Thank you, I will try it and see what happens.
I have been trying very hard to obtain information from the internet as to how to learn to make Quake-1 maps with either QERadiant or GTKRadiant, but have been largely unsuccessful. I understand that some modifications must be made to these programs in order to make Quake-1 maps, but I do not understand what they are.
I did find this link [url]http://www.qeradiant.com/?dat... but it states there that a Quake game editing pack for GtkRadiant has not been released :(.
Do you (or anyone else) have information on how to modify GtkRadiant or QERadiant to make Quake-1 maps. If not, can you point me toward sources on the internet where I can find such information? In your response please bear in mind that I am only a novice.
Thanks Again,
:=)
:=) Go To
#22 posted by Hrimfaxi [80.198.33.73] on 2003/01/28 13:53:13
http://ray.onemoremonkey.com/indus...
Http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
#23 posted by necros [172.169.198.173] on 2003/01/28 16:15:11
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
Help On Terrain Mapping
#24 posted by Levelworm [218.30.19.116] on 2003/01/31 06:50:43
Is there tutorials on mapping rocks or mountains?
(just in map editor)
thanks!
Help On Terrain Mapping
#25 posted by Levelworm [218.30.19.116] on 2003/01/31 07:11:47
Is there tutorials on mapping rocks or mountains?
(just in map editor)
thanks!
Terrain Mapping
#26 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.152] on 2003/01/31 14:08:45
Try this tutorial.
http://www.gamedesign.net/rust/con...
Texturing Question
#27 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/02/02 03:22:39
When you want a damaging liquid there only seems to be three choices: red lava, green slime, brown toxic waste. And even the toxic waste is rather unusual. Are there any other options out there? Particularly for Q3.
It would be cool to have some sort of non-transparent blue liquid with lighting arcing acorss it, but that's well beyond my skills to do. :)
Hmm
#28 posted by nonentity [62.7.159.21] on 2003/02/02 13:03:02
Well in Q1 it's easy, just create the texture and call it something with either *water *slime or *lava at the front of the name.
Q3 you can do it, just mess around with the shaders.
Scrags In The Void
#29 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/02/03 01:38:47
Quake, WC1.6 full
I don't want unlit scrags pounding players from out in the void.
I understand the level of monster illumination is a function of the light level of the surface beneath the baddie.
Possible solution: "sunlight" = 100 with an a mangle of 0 90 0 in the worldspawn then use neg lights around the columns descending into the void.
Does this sound right? Don't want to place a gazillion neg lights if it ain't gonna work.
You Can Also
#30 posted by czg [158.38.54.70] on 2003/02/03 04:51:31
make sure the sky is black, then make a func_illusionary brush of black that hovers a few units above the sky floor, then make a spotlight with light value of 150-200, no falloff and angle of 180
But...
#31 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/03 06:40:30
sky surfaces don't have lightmaps.
So...
#32 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/03 06:41:07
under the sky floor, have a real floor. and forget about the func_illusionary.
I Guess That Is What I Meant...
#33 posted by czg [158.38.54.106] on 2003/02/03 08:20:27
I just need people to translate my invalid suggestions first...
And The Illusionary...
#34 posted by czg [158.38.54.106] on 2003/02/03 08:23:30
was suggested to be placed there because ...use neg lights around the columns descending into the void. implies that there will be columns going down there, and if one puts a spotlight by them then you'll see one or two lightmap-units of brightness on said columns...
Eh
#35 posted by czg [158.38.54.106] on 2003/02/03 08:24:55
And right now I understood what was meant in post #32, so I'll just STFU and go sit in the corner for a while
Aaaah....
#36 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/02/03 18:07:45
Sky surfaces don't have lightmaps That's a very handy piece of info to know. Thanx metl and czg (get out of that corner man!) I'm using a starfield so the "real" floor under the skytexz will do the trick.
Oh...and the way I'm building should stop the annoying horizontal skytexz warping.
<beer> all round
What If You Put
#37 posted by necros [172.164.123.31] on 2003/02/03 19:45:20
a brush inside the skybrush? would the lightmap of the brush work, or would the skybrush's lightmap still be used instead...
Texturing Question Redux
#38 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/02/03 22:24:09
I'm aware that with a little shader manipulation I could make a plaid sea of death, but I was wondering if anybody else has already come across/made any interesting alternatives.
Batch Files? Batch Files? We Don't Have No Stinkin' Batch Files!
#39 posted by :=) [66.19.52.204] on 2003/02/04 00:18:38
Thank you Vondur, Hrimfaxi, and Necros for the replies. I tried your advice Vondur but I end up with error messages still.
Can someone explain what a batch file is and how to implement it? Or can you at least direct me to where I can read about this?
Again My Thanks
Well...
#40 posted by necros [172.146.165.245] on 2003/02/04 10:28:03
an batch file is just a text file which contains bunches of commands, one after another in order.
say, you wanted to open the windows/temp folder, backup everything, then delete everything in thee.
you would write in the batch file:
c:
cd\windows\temp
copy *.* c:\backup
deltree
making a batch file for compiling is very similar.
if you wanted one to compile a map, you would put in your qbsp, vis and light commands in there.
a handy thing you can do, is use %1 %2 %3...%9 to pass on commands from the prompt.
%1 is simply the next string of text after the batch program's name.
example: if the program is called n.bat
you type:
n var1
if you put %1 anywhere in your batch file, it will be replaced with var1
ex:
qbsp %1.map
vis %1.bsp
light %1.bsp
copy %1.bsp c:\quake
all the '%1' would read as 'var1' instead, giving you:
qbsp var1.map
vis var1.bsp
light var1.bsp
copy var1.bsp c:\quake
if you still are unsure, check out my guide again (http://www.planetquake.com/necros... the blue text at the bottom is an example of my batch file. the lines starting with 'rem' are remarks. (and don't do anything. sort of line comments in qc (//) or qbasic (') or whatever)
finaly, to make a batch file, you must either: go into dos prompt (or command prompt if your using XP) and type 'edit'. write all your stuff and save, or use notepad (or similar text program) and replace the '.txt' or '.doc' with '.bat'.
not sure if this will make it totally clear or not. i'm considering adding this type of explanation to my guide, btw...
The Guide, Btw Is Supposed To Be:
#41 posted by necros [172.146.165.245] on 2003/02/04 10:30:01
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
metlslime, you really gotta get rid of that line saving thing... it's killing the urls...
I Agree
#42 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.27] on 2003/02/04 10:50:01
It's hard to see where a link is supposed to go. :( 'twas a good idea tho.
Um...
#43 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.152] on 2003/02/04 12:12:08
necros, Wazat: hover your mouse over the link and read the address on the bottom of the browser window?
I Know, But It's Unattractive Still.
#44 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.27] on 2003/02/04 12:12:46
:)
Yeah, But If The Link Is Busted, Ie:
#45 posted by necros [172.148.123.217] on 2003/02/04 17:32:20
(http://www.longdomainname.com/lon...
or if someone types
dfs
it's annoying to have to retype it just so people can see it. at least before, if you busted a link, people would still be able to tell what the url was.
I Agree With Necros!
#46 posted by underworldfan [172.130.146.80] on 2003/02/04 18:12:08
its awkward for no good reason :P
and things that are awkward for no good reason suck. in fact, there is no good reason for a thing to ever be awkward.
Necros
#47 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.152] on 2003/02/04 20:10:56
Agreed. See my "Celebrity Look Alikes" thread.
It Builds Character!
#48 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/04 21:11:12
Yeah...
#49 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.152] on 2003/02/05 16:04:24
...But so does freaky prison-rape sex.
Wait, forget I said that. I'm afraid of what you're response will be.
<RPG> metlslime, if I told you to go to http://www.chickswithdicks.com would you go?
<metlslime> rpg: no, unless they have new pics.
Should Be "your" Not "you're"
#50 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.152] on 2003/02/05 16:05:11
Lol
#51 posted by daftpunk [147.197.200.13] on 2003/02/07 13:54:50
(lol)X3
Qmodel
#52 posted by MadFox [217.121.107.58] on 2003/02/08 18:29:58
I can't get them out of my map-wantings...
Awh..?
Those rats in "Malice"!
How is it been done, since me is told, that for each model you change, another has to quit.
Can't find anything about them, wrote myself a "rat.qc" but it doesn't seem to work.
Did that guys from Malice put some exta heapsize-memory in their progs.dat or something.
Their "MercBabe" I could change for the soldier, so now she's running as an Amazone in Quake1.
But that rats, got plenty of corridors for them, but I can't find the "cheesy" script they run on!
Triggering Lights
#53 posted by Dilvish [172.177.241.177] on 2003/02/09 10:17:26
I'm trying to finish a small SP Q1 map and I'd like to know how, at the entrance of a room, I could trigger the lighting of a long stair one step at a time. I've thought of the tripwire thing, with a trigger_once starting up other trigger_once(s) linked to lights, but you can't affect a targetname to a trigger_once. So what would you suggest?
Um...
#54 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.251.104] on 2003/02/09 13:36:38
Lots and lots of trigger_relays?
All Right, Don't Bother
#55 posted by Dilvish [172.197.187.34] on 2003/02/09 13:38:15
I've found the trigger_relay which does just what I want.
But here's another question: no animated image (water, slime, buttons, whatever) will work in the map I'm making, whether they are hand made by myself or they come from the original Quake texture pak. Has it happened to anyone before and how do you get that right?
Oops, Sorry, RPG
#56 posted by Dilvish [172.197.187.34] on 2003/02/09 13:40:14
You've posted your answer while I was writing mine. Right, trigger_relays do the trick. Thanks.
Heheh
#57 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.251.104] on 2003/02/09 15:06:40
I dunno why your water/slime isn't warping, though. As long as it's named *water or *lava it should be fine.
As far as the animated buttons go, all the texture frames have to be compiled into the .bsp. Some QBSP compilers don't automatically do this, so you have to "hide" the other animation frames on unseen surfaces like the back side of the button, or just a brush out in the void.
Thanks, RPG
#58 posted by Dilvish [172.184.105.206] on 2003/02/10 02:06:02
Some QBSP compilers don't automatically do this, so you have to "hide" the other animation frames on unseen surfaces like the back side of the button, or just a brush out in the void
I did just that and it worked. But it had never happened to me before and I haven't changed my QBSP compiler (as far as i know - it's been such a long time...); anyway, out of 3, it's the only one that doesn't crash when compiling, so I have to use it.
Anybody could point me to good compilers? I work with WC 1.6 (I'm too old to change now).
Oh, And Another Thing
#59 posted by Dilvish [172.177.32.26] on 2003/02/10 07:56:52
How do you rid your textures of fullbrights? Some that I made appear luminous in the dark when using FitzQuake (and maybe other engines too); I've looked up in Wally, TexMex, Adquedit, but to no avail.
Help, pleezzz!
Dilvish:
#60 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/10 11:01:05
Two methods:
1) there's an option in texmex to disallow fullbrights. It's in the "workspace" tab of the "preferences" dialog. Note that this setting will only affect newly imported images (like those pasted from the clipboard.) You cannot simply open up a wad and then uncheck this box and expect the whole wad to be fixed.
2) set up a special quake palette where the fullbright colors (last 32 indices) are some garish color (i use bright green, since there isn't anything close in the normal palette.) Then, in your paint prog, before you copy the image and paste it in texmex, you convert your image to that special palette.
Metl
#61 posted by Dilvish [172.196.121.229] on 2003/02/11 06:13:39
Thanks a lot for the tips; one problem I have is that I have a lot of textures with fullbrights and I have to rename each of them when importing them into TexMex. Is there no way to do a batch conversion?
Metl
#62 posted by Dilvish [172.186.196.11] on 2003/02/11 10:23:08
Thanks a lot for the tips; one problem I have is that I have a lot of textures with fullbrights and I have to rename each of them when importing them into TexMex. Is there no way to do a batch conversion?
Bang! Two Posts For The Price Of One!
#63 posted by Dilvish [172.186.196.11] on 2003/02/11 10:28:46
Sorry
Dilvish:
#64 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/11 11:13:14
i don't know of any program that can batch remove fullbrights from a wad.
Metlslime:
#65 posted by Dilvish [172.189.111.173] on 2003/02/11 14:08:53
All right, thanx; I'll do it by hand then, or not at all. BTW, why do fullbrights appear luminous in some engines (FitzQuake) and not in others (GlQuake 1.13)? Any idea?
Laziness, Or Choices Of Engine Programmer
#66 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.26] on 2003/02/11 15:03:11
The new engine programmers were sick of everything being so dull and dark and such in glquake, so they made things come out like they ought to. However, that causes problems on the other end....
Um,
#67 posted by necros [172.163.42.198] on 2003/02/11 18:22:55
Dilvish, you could try importing all the textures from the fullbrights wad into a new wad. that could do the trick.
and fullbrights can be usefull, but i personally hate them - in software quake and glquake.
Bah
#68 posted by Vodka [81.3.154.133] on 2003/02/11 23:48:35
fullbrights are good, they are only a problem with clueless mappers
Anyway in most new engines they are switchable.
To mass remove fullbrights export all the textures to .pcx, uncheck fullbrights in texmex (view/preferemces/workspace) and import all the pcx into a new wad.
Or mass comvert to fullbrights-less palette with PS/PSP (it can be even faster)
Speedy
#69 posted by Dilvish [172.197.168.193] on 2003/02/12 02:28:20
Or mass comvert to fullbrights-less palette with PS/PSP (it can be even faster)
I've tried that in PSP, but couldn't find how. Fact is, I'm no longer very much used to using PSP and lots of trix have slipped out of my mind. How do you do that in PSP (or PS), please?
Dilvish:
#70 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/12 17:52:04
BTW, why do fullbrights appear luminous in some engines (FitzQuake) and not in others (GlQuake 1.13)? Any idea?
they don't appear luminous in glquake becuase glquake is a proof-of-concept carmack threw together over a weekend as research for q2. They don't appear luminous in other engines becuase some engine coders don't care enough about them to fix them. They appear luminous in Fitzquake becuase i consider their absence a bug.
#71 posted by Vodka [217.195.94.117] on 2003/02/12 23:41:26
There is 'actions' menu in photoshop that lets you record any actions, and file/batch process (if I`m not mistaking) to apply the actions to images or entire folded. Dont know about PSP. May be manual or could help you. Or google.
Vertex Editing
#72 posted by jsHcK [132.156.71.106] on 2003/02/13 23:38:25
Can anyone point me toward some good resources on vertex manipulation. Specifically, how to build convincing natural terrain with the vertex editing tool in Hammer.
Um, Sky Texture Problem...
#73 posted by . [172.167.189.153] on 2003/02/18 22:45:48
Can't I have a complete black sky texture? (Q1) I made one in wally and when I use it, it shows as a scrambled brown...
it's named skyblack.. and of course if I don't have it set as a sky tex, any firing at it will hit it as if its a wall which is not what I want...
I'd rather use black than star sky for this Coagula map, personally...
Oh And Also...
#74 posted by . [172.167.189.153] on 2003/02/18 23:00:23
I have a fully white texture that I don't want as a fullbright - just plain white and I made a square room with this tex, stuck a 500 light entity in the middle.. run the test map and it appears as a fullbright - dont want that! what do i dooooooooooooo
Phait...
#75 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/02/18 23:29:33
Follow the link from UnderWorldFan to the last Coagula contest and d/l the pak. Rip the sky texture out of one of Elek's levels.
Try using one of the pale textures from Killjoy's kjsp1.bsp instead of the white fullbrite
Ah What The Hell...
#76 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/02/19 02:20:44
I'll send you the textures tomorrow.
Phait:
#77 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/19 07:11:55
i'm guessing that your black sky texture is not 256x128. All sky textures must be that size. As for the white, there is only one white in the quake palette, and it is fullbright. Your best choice is palette index 15 (RGB 235, 235, 235) which is a very light grey and not fullbright.
You should also check out my quake texture faq:
http://www.celephais.net/stuff/tex...
Thanks
#78 posted by . [172.133.234.87] on 2003/02/19 08:32:12
God I love this place already. GROUP HUG!
(with a rocket launcher)
Question...
#79 posted by necros [172.139.220.71] on 2003/02/19 21:13:29
is there a site that has all the limits for glquake, dos/winquake? (like, maximum faces, etc...)
also, how many brushes can treebsp.exe handle?
Aww Crap...
#80 posted by necros [172.139.220.71] on 2003/02/19 21:44:40
i just got this error whilst compiling my map...
it's the txqbsp that was modified by aguire...
Reached the Limit MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES (32768), cannot continue...
(there was a leak in the map)
my question: will fixing this leak reduce these clipnodes, or am i still screwed even if i find the leak? or... is there a way to increase the limit or will quake pack up and leave?
Necros:
#81 posted by metlslime [12.231.113.167] on 2003/02/20 02:31:10
i believe that a sealed map will have fewer clipnodes. I'm not totally sure about that, and i'm too tired to actually root through the qbsp source to verify. But sealing your maps is always a good thing, so you might as well do it :)
Seal It
#82 posted by Tyrann [63.12.15.137] on 2003/02/20 03:49:09
A sealed map will have _far_ less clipnodes. Clipnodes are basically just places that you can walk. If you can walk outside the map, then there's a huge number of clipnodes out there.
You Could Try
#83 posted by aguirRe [62.127.23.158] on 2003/02/20 05:26:20
adding the option "-fill" to Tree/TxQBSP. This will force fill hulls 1/2 (the clipping hulls) even if they leak, thus significantly reducing the total # clipnodes generated.
When loading the map in GLQuake, the player and probably most other entities are stuck so you have to use noclip to move around and find the leak after loading the pointfile. See the readme for details.
AFAIK, the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES limit cannot be increased (the bsp format doesn't allow this).
Compiler Limits
#84 posted by aguirRe [62.127.23.158] on 2003/02/20 05:42:59
can be found in the header (*.h) files of the source code.
Max # of brushes is 65536 in TxQBSP and practically limitless in TreeQBSP. I've never seen a map that exceeds these brush limits.
Also, since the compiler transforms the brushes into planes (among other things), the engine will never see any brushes at all.
What Should I Do With This? O_____o
#85 posted by . [172.163.219.17] on 2003/02/20 20:29:10
http://pherrous.phaitaccompli.com/...
http://pherrous.phaitaccompli.com/...
http://pherrous.phaitaccompli.com/...
Quake 1 Palette
#86 posted by . [172.164.139.96] on 2003/02/21 04:23:15
does anyone have a photoshop .act of the quake 1 palette? thinkin of makin some textures, im at least good at that
Phait
#87 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.26] on 2003/02/21 12:06:32
That map would make a good dm arena, or a good battle mech arena if it's made the right size.
Just make sure you close it up first. :)
Battle Mech....
#88 posted by . [172.139.49.235] on 2003/02/21 16:03:59
im not interested in that mod o.0
not sure what ill do with it, i got real pissed off.. nothing but good work is coming from me now
#89 posted by Vodka [81.3.154.182] on 2003/02/21 23:41:40
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/...
quake with and w/o fullbrights, q2 and hexen photoshop palettes
Thanks
#90 posted by . [172.150.187.87] on 2003/02/21 23:55:42
thanks
Pointfiles
#91 posted by necros [172.128.53.196] on 2003/02/22 22:05:14
the .lin files are pointfiles in quake3 right? if i take a .pts file (from q1) and change the extension, i should be able to see the point file in gtkr, right?
Hmm
#92 posted by nonentity [212.140.121.247] on 2003/02/23 05:30:03
If you run a compile from inside Radiant then it'll highlight the leak in editor (useful if your batch compile process comes up with one).
Yeah,
#93 posted by necros [172.147.238.190] on 2003/02/24 18:49:23
i was doing that.
except, the q3 compiler seems to be more tolerant to leaks or the q1 compiler was picking up ones that aren't considered leaks in q3. (q3 has the super complex geometry, which sometimes kills q1 compilers)
so yeah. it works.
#94 posted by Vodka [81.3.154.50] on 2003/02/24 22:53:57
Other editors can also load leak files and display where leakage goes (not as good as gtk tho)
Message Breaks
#95 posted by . [172.160.74.119] on 2003/02/27 00:05:12
I know there's a way in worldcraft to put in a line break in Messages i.e. in trigger_multiple - but what is it?
If I Had To Guess
#96 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/02/27 02:01:45
It would be \n.
Tried...
#97 posted by . [172.152.251.95] on 2003/02/27 03:38:51
that, didnt work
Yes, But Is It REAL Goat Jizm?
#98 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.251.42] on 2003/02/27 11:57:39
Try using this:
/n
.
#99 posted by daftpunk [147.197.236.119] on 2003/02/28 09:14:50
lol
Missing Items..
#100 posted by . [172.131.148.153] on 2003/03/01 04:36:17
How do I remedy missing ammo/weapons/items in maps? For instance I have some ammo beneath spotlights and some don't show. I could reposition, but I like them under the spotlights...
using Worldcraft
Hmm
#101 posted by nonentity [62.7.162.174] on 2003/03/01 07:59:59
Are they by any chance next to walls, since WC has a problem, where the in editor placement is actually 16 units off of the actual placement on both the horizontal axis.
Worldcraft Has Broken Item Origins
#102 posted by nb [203.109.254.59] on 2003/03/01 08:01:02
I think metlslime or somebody has a fixed .fgd. In the mean time, try putting the lower-left corner of each box where you want its center should be.
Bleh
#103 posted by . [172.131.148.153] on 2003/03/01 08:03:46
yeah tried somethin like that, dunno, i just totally re-arranged the item placement.
expect PH8DM1 to be up tonight. it was originally my coagula map but i just pulled it all from my ass and had no idea where it was going but it makes a decent DM.
Heh..
Sometimes
#104 posted by daftpunk [147.197.236.119] on 2003/03/05 08:59:16
i thought they "fall" through stuff. i had it when using the same map for q1 and q2 (same rmf, different textures and compilers). never had it otherwise...
Monsters Dropping Items
#105 posted by . [172.165.184.100] on 2003/03/13 09:44:19
Is this possible? How?
To Elaborate...
#106 posted by . [172.165.184.100] on 2003/03/13 09:44:55
I mean when a monster is killed, lets say it drops an item such as ammo or a key, etc.
You'll Likely Want To Edit The Code...
#107 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.27] on 2003/03/13 10:33:41
There's a way to do some dropping but not all using just the map editor. Grunts, ogres and enforcers drop backpacks, which means you can give them anything that gets passed on from players through backpacks: weapons and ammo. Unfortunately, these monsters directly set the amount of ammo they have for their own weapon, so there are certain ammo's you can't set for certain monsters.
Grunts can carry any ammo except shells (they will invariably have 5 shells in their backpack no matter what you set it to).
Enforcers can carry any ammo except cells.
Ogres can carry any ammo except rockets.
To set the ammo values, use these:
ammo_shells
ammo_nails
ammo_rockets
ammo_cells
The 3 monsters can carry any weapon you want:
float IT_AXE = 4096;
float IT_SHOTGUN = 1;
float IT_SUPER_SHOTGUN = 2;
float IT_NAILGUN = 4;
float IT_SUPER_NAILGUN = 8;
float IT_GRENADE_LAUNCHER = 16;
float IT_ROCKET_LAUNCHER = 32;
float IT_LIGHTNING = 64;
Simply set the monster's "weapon" value to the number you want (note that in most mods dropping an axe or shotgun is pointless...).
Unfortunately, if you want to drop keys, runes, or other tidbits, or you want any monster to be able to drop them, you're going to have to edit the QC code so that the drop backpack function in items.qc includes keys and runes for monster deaths (or preferrably creates another dropped item that looks like the key, so that it's not hidden in a backpack!). You'll also want to make sure that your dropped key will never delete itself or dissapear...
Thanks But.....
#108 posted by . [172.158.208.254] on 2003/03/13 12:59:17
I know nothing about C++ much less Quake C, lol. Oh well, I'll just.. figure an alternative.
Phait Get My Dropit QC Plugin :)
#109 posted by [Jimbo] [216.12.58.216] on 2003/03/17 16:03:14
http://jmap.web1000.com/temp/dropi...
Help Find Textures
#110 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.72] on 2003/03/17 17:52:44
Does anybody know where can I find dinosaur age themed textures or anything like that (cave textures, stones, bones, swamp, etc)
I've got some ideas about Q1DM map and need some textures for it.
PuLSaR...
#111 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/03/17 18:52:25
Would the "Tomb Raider" textures on Fatty's site be of any help?
» CLIP «
#112 posted by Leafface [62.112.210.194] on 2003/03/17 18:56:45
There's one thing I still don't get about BSP's, and it's really a shame to ask this after 4 or 5 years mapping, but
I still don't know how to make CLIPs. CLIPS WITHOUT A BRUSH. I can't believe that every mapper that use clips manipulate the .map files manually or tell QBSP to skip leafs or Idonno. Almost everyone knows how to separate a clip from its brush but me. And it's very embarassing, coz I know that it's a mostly basic thing in mapping.
Please help!!
Distrans
#113 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.72] on 2003/03/17 19:14:35
Thanx. I'll take a look
Something Very Strange...
#114 posted by necros [172.132.12.17] on 2003/03/17 19:41:07
if doing a -fast on vis is fast, and a -level 4 is slow, than it stands to reason that a -level 1 should be faster than -fast but slower than -level 4.
well, doing a -level 1 on my map gives an estimate of 298 hours (!), whilst a -level 3 gives an estimate of 6.5 hours.
i'm not really seeing the logic here... any reasons?
i'm using aguiRe's modified RVis+
Oh...
#115 posted by necros [172.132.12.17] on 2003/03/17 19:42:31
one more thing, and this question is directed to aguiRe... why do the percentages sometimes jump back down... for instance:
Full: 36.0%, Elapsed: 17:37, Left: 1:03:38, Total: 1:21:15, 21%
Full: 37.0%, Elapsed: 20:27, Left: 1:43:15, Total: 2:03:42, 16%
Full: 38.0%, Elapsed: 21:41, Left: 1:42:59, Total: 2:04:40, 17%
Full: 39.0%, Elapsed: 22:57, Left: 1:48:26, Total: 2:11:23, 17%
Full: 40.0%, Elapsed: 24:54, Left: 1:29:00, Total: 1:53:54, 21%
Full: 41.0%, Elapsed: 27:28, Left: 1:53:44, Total: 2:21:12, 19%
Full: 42.0%, Elapsed: 30:09, Left: 2:19:12, Total: 2:49:21, 17%
Full: 43.0%, Elapsed: 33:48, Left: 2:49:06, Total: 3:22:54, 16%
Necros
#116 posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200] on 2003/03/17 21:50:52
Well, I'm not aguiRe, but it's because the time remaining is only an estimate. The first percentage is like normal rvis+, the second percentage is the how much of the total estimated compile time has elapsed. When the estimate gets updated, this percentage figure jumps around with it.
Leafface
#117 posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200] on 2003/03/17 21:54:34
It sounds like you are confused about what clip brushes are.
A clip brush is just a brush that has the clip texture applied to all it's faces. When the map is compiled, this brush will be invisible, but you won't be able to walk through it. You can shoot through it though.
The things you are saying above don't make sense.
Leafface
#118 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/03/18 08:10:51
If your talking Q1 or Half-Life, clip is simply a texture whose filename is
clip
Apply that to all faces of a brush and presto!
Just make sure you use the clip texture that appears in all wads by default. The id clip texture looks like this:
http://www.signsofkoth.co.uk/clip....
Vis Estimation
#119 posted by aguirRe [62.127.35.94] on 2003/03/18 08:26:07
Tyrann's right about the 2nd percent figure depending on the current estimation. This in turn is updated when the integer part of the 1st percent figure changes (e.g. when 40.6 becomes 41.3).
It may seem confusing at first, but that 2nd percent figure (which may go up or down) is the most important number on the line, since it's a clear indication of how the process advances.
Usually, the vis process is fast in the beginning and then slows down more or less during its lifespan. Therefore the estimation is more accurate in the later stages (unfortunately).
As for different vis levels behaving strangely, I've seen that as well. Sometimes I've seen vis got stuck completely when using "unusual" levels (1-3). Therefore I strongly recommend only using fast and level 4 for normal operation.
If level 4 is too slow (298 hours *is* slow ...) and you won't settle for fast vis (which is recommended for maps with very open nature), then I suggest looking for the standard methods; vis blockers, func_walls for detail brushes etc.
With my version of RVis you have an extra indicator "max leafs visible" for help tracking down spots with high r_speeds. Normally, the long vis processing times can be *significantly* reduced by doing some small changes to the map and with only minor appearance effects.
Remember, long vis processing times is normally an indication of vis failing completely, not that it will do a good job. If you don't want to change the map, then settle for fast vis or even *no* vis if the map is open enough, i.e. arena-like.
If you need help with the map, just let me know.
Func_walls For Detail Brushes..
#120 posted by . [172.130.99.174] on 2003/03/18 08:28:18
Elaborate - what's the advantage?
Func_walls
#121 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/03/18 08:50:36
Detail refers to any solid, visible architecture ( so that exculdes clip and triggers ) that doesn't complicate the compile process' divisions of the 2D surfaces and 3D spaces.
Example:
If you have a flat wall with a thin light fixture ( like the square plate with a gothic cross light ) then the wall, despite being only a single brush, will be fragmented into several surfaces around the light fixture. Also, volume of space around that feature will be divided up into several smaller volumes to fit around the protruding metal plate.
By making the light fixture 'detail' it no longer interupts the compiler's cutting-up of your .map, so it can use far fewer surfaces; the wall might consequently be made of only 2 or even 1 surface.
Quake 2 and 3 both have detail as an option; Quake 1 and Half-Life do not.
Using proper Q2/3 detail makes the light fixture solid to movement and lighting, but invisible to the division process.
In Q1 and HL, you can get a similar effect by making the light fixture a func_wall. This is because brush entities do not interupt the dividing up of you map during compile: they don't vis block.
Doing this has 3 drawbacks though -
1. They don't block vis, which can be a problem with some features/layouts.
2. Brush entities, including func_walls, do not stop light during the compile. So the wall mounted light fixture wont have a nifty shadow around it :(
3. There's a limit to how many brush and point entities you can have in a map, including how large they are. I discovered this to my cost when building Part III of Contract Revoked, what with all them teleporters. I believe CZG used a lot of func_walls for detail in, IIRC, Insomnia.
Heretic + Worldcraft
#122 posted by Dochist [208.187.113.163] on 2003/03/18 10:21:45
is there a fgd (is that the right name? me forgets) so i can do some heretic2 mapping in Worldcraft v1.6??
#123 posted by necros [172.138.132.120] on 2003/03/18 17:08:00
If level 4 is too slow (298 hours *is* slow ...) and you won't settle for fast vis (which is recommended for maps with very open nature), then I suggest looking for the standard methods; vis blockers, func_walls for detail brushes etc.
actually, it's the other way around... the level 1 estimation was 298 hours, i just completed a level 3 vis and it took 8 1/2 hours... that's mostly what i was trying to understand-- how a lower level vis could take longer than a higher level one.
thanks for the other explanations though. :)
Necros:
#124 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/03/18 17:20:32
vis works by flowing through the level from each leaf -- sort of like the paint bucket tool in a paint prog, except that it does line of sight tests as it flows.
higher vis level settings will make the line of sight tests more stringent, which takes longer per test, but it also means that the test is more likely to fail. The sooner vis decides you can't see down a certain winding hallway, the sooner it can stop flowing down that hallway. This is how higher vis levels can sometimes be faster.
Oic Now.
#125 posted by necros [172.161.127.82] on 2003/03/19 20:47:04
thanks, metlslime. that cleared it up nicely. :)
Oh Rats!
#126 posted by necros [172.141.78.229] on 2003/03/20 17:28:51
so, i'm adding my monster into my map using gtkr... and i think: "man, this is too hard. i'll make these monsters only appear in hard!"
i open the entity dialog, and find there isn't a way to change the skill settings for entities! how do you do it in gtkr?
Spawnflags
#127 posted by nb [203.109.254.59] on 2003/03/20 20:14:37
256 - not in easy
512 - not in normal
1024 - not in hard
2048 - not in deathmatch
You can probably alter the entity def file or whatever they use nowadays to include this.
Say I Didn't Want It In Hard Or Easy...
#128 posted by necros [172.151.187.84] on 2003/03/21 22:01:29
i would add the two up, right?
so spawnflags would be 256 + 1024 = 1280?
how do you change skill settings for other games that are sp? (like Wolf and stuff)
Title Goes Here...
#129 posted by nb [203.109.254.59] on 2003/03/21 22:31:46
Yes, and I don't know.
Hmm
#130 posted by Vodka [217.195.65.10] on 2003/03/21 23:39:07
the correct enteties.def file should give you all the flags in editor
?
#131 posted by necros [172.171.109.135] on 2003/03/22 19:27:35
could someone send me the .def file for a sp game please? (wolf3d or the like)
Necros
#132 posted by Vodka [217.195.65.10] on 2003/03/25 22:50:32
I think all the skill setting flags were removed from GTK ( I was wrong - they are editor thing and are not stored in entities.def)
But they are still present in Q3Radiant 202.
You could use that to place monsters.
Mapping Tutorial
#133 posted by Vodka [217.195.65.10] on 2003/03/25 22:59:19
Clip and skew, rather advanced, but should be easy to get it. Check out
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/...
However...
#134 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/03/25 23:04:45
they COULD be added to the entities.def. QER just happened to have them hard-coded in.
Bleh...
#135 posted by necros [172.175.142.44] on 2003/03/26 19:43:57
unfortunatly, i don't know how. :/
i'll probably try using q3rad 202 then, to add the skill flags...
just to check, but the q2 skill flags (which i assume are the ones were talking about) are the same bits as the q1 ones, right?
Shubby
#136 posted by . [172.163.189.78] on 2003/03/29 00:51:22
Nevermind my bullshit bout leavin the board, change of mind. Anywho...
How do I accomplish setting up Shubby in WC? The teleporter-spikey-ball and all. I looked at id's end.bsp but it's missing some things (de-compiled it w/ BSP).
Thanks.
This Guy...
#137 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/03/29 02:24:23
has now retired twice and come out of retirement twice, all in a couple weeks. Impressive. He's like fern and xenon combined and concentrated into a fine powder, and then sprinkled over a scoop of vanilla ice cream.
Lmfao
#138 posted by . [172.163.189.78] on 2003/03/29 02:39:45
Niiiice.
Phait
#139 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/03/29 03:06:45
I just worked out how to do it. I'll put the sample map in a zip along with a short tut in .txt format.
Dowload linkage imminent.
Setting Up The Defeat Of Shub-Niggurath
#140 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/03/29 04:20:42
here is you tut link:
http://www.signsofkoth.co.uk/stuff...
Thank You Very Much.
#141 posted by . [172.163.189.78] on 2003/03/29 04:26:51
BTW - care to interview me for Pherrous sometime? :P
Thank You Very Much.
#142 posted by . [172.163.189.78] on 2003/03/29 04:32:46
BTW - care to interview me for Pherrous sometime? :P
Phait:
#143 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/03/30 07:03:09
or you could interview yourself!
Re: Mapping Tutorial (#133)
#144 posted by Vrajgh [195.92.168.163] on 2003/03/30 08:21:59
That's a useful tutorial speedy. :) I'd managed to get as far as the 45 degree one from trial and error but never managed to satisfactorily(sp??) "bend" things any better than that. I'll have to make note of that technique.
Oh a couple (read: 3) typos you might want to fix:
(thats why the bush have to be made at gid 4 or greater).
Regarding The Daikitana Episode 3 Textures
#145 posted by leviathan [68.163.103.25] on 2003/03/30 20:47:52
If anyone has a download link, i would appreicate it.
Ta Vrajgh
#146 posted by Vodka [217.195.94.225] on 2003/03/30 22:31:46
No idea how damn bush sneaked in there ;) Fixin
Leviathan
#147 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.251.104] on 2003/03/31 08:12:05
I think nonentity had them uploaded on his PQ site. Let's see if he has an answer. If not, I have them, but I would have to upload them to my site, and QuakePit.com doesn't like zip files.
Thanks RPG
#148 posted by leviathan [68.163.103.25] on 2003/03/31 20:45:14
I checked out the site, but i guess that it is no more, since all content seemed to be removed.
If you have the texes, try emailing them to leviathanthegatekeeper@yahoo.com
Um...
#149 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.196] on 2003/04/01 08:17:18
Hotmail won't let me send a file greater than 1mb, and the E3 textures zipped are 2.3mb. I think I can still e-mail them to you from an old address; however, I don't have time right now, so please send me an e-mail as soon as you read this. That will remind me to do it later when I get the opportunity.
Does
#150 posted by daftpunk [147.197.200.13] on 2003/04/10 18:51:28
quakepit like .rar?
or you mean it dont like any big files uploaded?
Help For Texture
#151 posted by here [62.4.28.202] on 2003/04/15 03:41:39
how to create animated texture ?
Animated Texture?
#152 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/04/15 13:21:03
Here, go here: http://www.celephais.net/stuff/tex...
Quake/GTK/func_group ?
#153 posted by Abyss [203.51.194.201] on 2003/04/16 05:47:16
How do I get func_group to work in GTK for Quake? I read it somewhere, but I can not find it. I copied the func_group thingy from the Quake3 entities.def file installed with GTK, and pasted it into the Quake.def file, as I thought this was what I had read, but it did not seem to work.
Q1 Does Not Have Func_group
#154 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2003/04/17 03:11:01
Quake II does, though.
(What does func_group do, anyway?)
Func_group
#155 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/04/17 03:17:26
I remember that mapcon was able to move func_groups back to worldspawn, but I don't know what to change in the def file to make func_groups.
For q1 mapping in gtkradiant all it does is allow you to handle brushes in a group, which can be handy.
Func_group
#156 posted by Abyss [203.51.235.250] on 2003/04/17 04:53:10
Fat Controller
From what I read, although Quake does not have func_group, you can use func_group, in GTK Radiant as an in editor only tool, which as pushplay says allows you to handle brushes in groups
pushplay
"For q1 mapping in gtkradiant all it does is allow you to handle brushes in a group, which can be handy."
This is what I am after.
I either read about it hear, or at the old QMap, in a thread about Quake mapping and GTK Radiant. I have searched here but could not find it, and can no longer access the old QMap site.
Question:
#157 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/04/17 14:35:45
since qbsp doesn`t know what a func_group is, it will create an actual entity which the game will claim has no spawn function. Does anybody`s map converter push func_group brushes into the worldspawn?
Metlslime
#158 posted by Gom Jabbar [212.93.3.169] on 2003/04/17 15:03:17
Yes, SleepwalkR's does resolve func_groups, you just have to put '-groups' as a command line parameter. Go download it and read the included readme.txt for further information.
http://rem.fov120.com/?show=projec...
#159 posted by Vodka [81.3.153.35] on 2003/04/17 21:19:17
or u can bother manually ungrouping all the stuff once map is done :/
Hmmm........I Feel Like A Lepper With 2 Left Feet.........
#160 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.103] on 2003/04/17 22:16:27
anyway, since there is discussion on how to remove/revert the func_group back to worldspawn etc, I think it is reasonable to assume you also know how to get func_group to work in the first place, anyone care to enlighten me?
anyone?
anyone?
anyone?
:(
Nevermind, I Have It......
#161 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.103] on 2003/04/17 22:45:07
:)
You Do..?
#162 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/04/17 22:52:30
care to share?
No !!
#163 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.103] on 2003/04/17 23:01:43
:)
Only Kidding,
#164 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.103] on 2003/04/17 23:43:37
Now, this is how I got it to work, there is most likely a better way to do parts of it, especially selecting the group after it has been made, but at this time I do not know it.
First you got to copy the "funk_group" section from your Quake3 "entities.def" file which gets installed with GTK, just paste that into your quake.def file. (This, as I mentioned above, is what I thought I had read.) Then when you are in GTK, you just select the brushes you wish to group together, then either right click and select funk/func_group, or, hit the N key and bring up the entities dodad, select func_group from the list, double click it.
Then to select it, hit the L key to bring up the entities list, expand func_group, select it, click select, and it will be selected for you to work with. (If you have multiple func_groups, you could give each a name or something to identify them, I just put "name" in the key feild and then call it whatever the "value" feild, Then you can identify them individually in the entities list (L key) window). I do not know why I can not just select the group by selecting 1 brush, but I do not seem to be able to do it that way
When you want to change it back you just select one of the brushes in the group/or the group itself, right click, select "ungroup entity" and the brushes will be changed back to worldspawn. Or you could use the java version of sleepwalkers map converter and do it as mentioned above. I use the old non java mapcon which does not have the -groups switch.
It is a lot quicker than it sounds, and besides that, it is the only way that I know, so until I find a better way, it will do for me.
Abyss
#165 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/04/18 09:41:23
Thanks, much appreciated.
Tyrlite Optimisation
#166 posted by Vodka [81.3.153.41] on 2003/04/18 23:50:39
is there any way to get faster compile with tyrlite ? takes way too long already (no -extra and only ~50% of the light are there)
I`m on slow pc ;/
Tyrlite
#167 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.80.195.52] on 2003/04/19 10:17:40
Besides getting a faster PC and or having less lights or faces in your map I don't think there's a way... ;)
Well, if it takes that long you can always ask someone in #tf to compile it for you I guess, there are some people with quite fast machines, aren't there?
Beta Testing...
#168 posted by necros [172.201.209.102] on 2003/04/21 12:51:22
ok, i need some dudes to beta test nesp09...
you`ll need a custom engine on this one, any one that has the edict limit bumped will do (PanQuake, TomazQuake). The engines that I know that don`t have bumped edicts are: FitzQuake and MHglquake.
i suggest the use of Panquake -- practically identical to the original glquake (just make sure pan is disabled).
if you need any help getting these, just ask.
so if your interested, email me:
necros -at- planetquake -dot- com
nb: serious people only please...
Visible Func_spawns
#169 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.53] on 2003/04/22 16:24:48
Does anyone know why the upper part (there are two parts) of a Q1 custents func_spawn entity is visible before it is triggered ? It is then non-solid but otherwise works as expected when triggered (i.e. becomes fully visible and solid).
I Think
#170 posted by necros [172.154.113.177] on 2003/04/22 18:11:08
it`s because the model is getting set, but the falltofloor part hasn`t been executed at this time.
not sure though, i`d have to check, but i know what you mean.
incidentally, is there any particular reason why sometimes when a post gets eaten, you can go back and it`s still there? (like now) but other times, the post is no longer in the box?
I Thunk
#171 posted by Kell [80.195.16.144] on 2003/04/22 18:16:04
incidentally, is there any particular reason why sometimes when a post gets eaten, you can go back and it`s still there? (like now) but other times, the post is no longer in the box?
We Fremen have a saying: metl created Func_Msgboard to test the faithful. One cannot go against the word of metl.
Ha...
#172 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/04/22 20:36:28
Tell me of your home world asshole.
Kell
#173 posted by underworldfan [172.199.120.116] on 2003/04/22 21:07:52
lol.
Kell
#174 posted by Gom Jabbar [212.93.3.169] on 2003/04/23 06:22:29
We Fremen have a saying: metl created Func_Msgboard to test the faithful. One cannot go against the word of metl.
Right Kell, but also have to remmeber the prophecy:
One will come, the voice from the coders world, bringing the holy bugfix, an addslashes() function, which will cleanse the bugginess and bring us out of darkness.
Right Kell...
#175 posted by Gom Jabbar [212.93.3.169] on 2003/04/23 06:28:21
...but YOU also have to REMEMBER the prophecy...
Ahhh, they're all over! Someone make the typos go away! Release me from this pain!
Necros
#176 posted by aguirRe [62.127.69.5] on 2003/04/23 16:21:45
Thanks for trying to help, although I still cannot figure out what is going on. I tried to follow your droptofloor (which I assumed you meant) lead, but there are too many things happening in the qc code for me to get the actual sequence of events.
What I do not get is why this particular two-part model does not work when a one part model like the soldier works fine. It is probably some error in the original qc code that has never been looked into and I am too inexperienced to locate the cause.
If you (or anyone else) figure out the cause of (and hopefully the cure for) this error, I would appreciate the information.
Wait A Minute...
#177 posted by necros [172.145.202.226] on 2003/04/23 17:47:50
what are you talking about? :)
i`m not sure what you mean by `two part model`. what makes a soldier.mdl a `one-part` model?
#178 posted by necros [172.145.202.226] on 2003/04/23 17:56:09
Also:
#179 posted by necros [172.145.202.226] on 2003/04/23 17:56:15
a quick way around which requires more work on the mapper`s part is simply to place the spawning entity at the proper height above the ground. the spawn function simply uses the func_spawn`s origin as the spawned ent`s origin, therefore, if you set the proper height, the entity won`t be dropped to the floor at first, but it will appear to be, which is just as good.
This Particular Entity
#180 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.19] on 2003/04/24 12:16:10
consists of two parts; the upper body and the lower body, each in a separate mdl (servobod and servoleg) file. There is also a separate model for the dead entity (servodie) and finally a head model (h_servo) when gibbed (I am not sure if that is actually possible since the entity is a robot).
Before the func_spawn is triggered, the upper body is visible but non-solid and when triggered, the lower body also gets visible and then it is active and solid.
When dead, the two parts are separated and fall to the ground as expected and gets non-solid again.
I have tried moving the func_spawn entity up and down but it does not seem to help. Another func_spawn just next to this one spawns a soldier and that works exactly as expected.
I Think...
#181 posted by necros [172.140.24.207] on 2003/04/24 16:55:35
it seems to be more a problem in the servo thing`s code... probably the self.nextthink is set too long, maybe one second, so that could be why it`s taking a little while for the top part to get rearranged with the bottom part. i`d look there, if i were you, around the spawning function of the entity. (not the func_spawn)
I Have Tried
#182 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.86] on 2003/04/25 12:56:11
to follow your tip, but there is just too much code that I do not understand yet. I will leave it for now, thanks anyway.
Btw, did you get any help on *your* qc problem, the "Precache: overflow" issue ? I remember seing something similar on the old QMap. I might be able to track down some of that info if you want me to.
Yeah...
#183 posted by necros [172.164.114.95] on 2003/04/25 20:09:39
'
Sorry Bout Prev. Just Testing...
#184 posted by necros [172.164.114.95] on 2003/04/25 20:10:32
well, at the moment, i'm told it has to do with going over the MAX_MODELS limit (of 256) or apparently higher on the engine i'm testing this out on...
but for the life of me, I can't really see what could have caused that error to crop up... there were already over 300~ models including func_, item_, monster_, and i only added a few things in between builds of the map...
unless the previous build was just skating on the edge, and the few things I added pushed it over...
so any help would be greatly appreciated, of course. :)
MAX_MODELS == 256
#185 posted by Tyrann [63.34.208.243] on 2003/04/26 00:10:36
I already replied to necros via email before reading this here, but for anyone else who's interested...
You can only have a maximum of 256 _unique_ models in one map. The unique part is important because this allows you to have 20 grunts and they all share the same model, so this only counts as one towards the total.
Where you tend to use them up is with func_door, func_wall, trigger_once, etc. All of these entities (and any other "brush based" ones) will add one to the total count.
Also...
#186 posted by Tyrann [63.34.208.243] on 2003/04/26 03:42:59
I forgot to mention also that you can't just bump this limit in the source code and re-compile because you'll break the network code. It sends the model number over the net as a byte (8-bits => 2^8 = 256).
Hmmm...
#187 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.24] on 2003/04/28 17:13:33
I know that in the dem files and in the code, bsp models are usually * and a number, like "*8". If you had 2 doors with the same model, would they get messed up by eachother?
Hrm
#188 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.207] on 2003/05/03 00:31:50
the func_spawn stuff...
i dont know if this is what you`re experiencing, but i had an issue crop up when i was doing qc for pbrsp1, basically there was a split second after soemthing spawned in which it was visible but hadn`t gone into being able to take damage/its think state, etc etc. i think i solved it by just putting a line making its nextthink alot quicker. pretty simple actually. i also added code such that spawned entities would go after a path_corner when spawned, in case anyone`s interested...
Thanks, But The
#189 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.241] on 2003/05/03 04:49:56
problem I have is *before* actual spawn time. The upper part of one two-part model is visible but non-solid. After spawn, everything is fine. I have tried looking into the nextthink/droptofloor/whatnot things but I cannot figure it out.
Oh, You Mean,
#190 posted by necros [172.152.112.224] on 2003/05/04 21:30:53
the upper part is already there, before the spawn is triggered? (just not solid)?
Exactly
#191 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.226] on 2003/05/05 05:52:33
...
Hrm
#192 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.110.108] on 2003/05/05 10:20:39
maybe post the qc somewhere? would make this alot easier imo
The Custents Package
#193 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.118] on 2003/05/05 12:35:47
is available at http://www.planetquake.com/fatty , look in the downloads section. The problematic model is controlled by the srvomech.qc code.
R_speeds
#194 posted by Abyss [203.51.230.51] on 2003/05/09 06:41:13
Can someone answer some q's about r_speeds
1. What is considered "acceptable" r_speeds ?
and wouldn't that be dependant on what system specs were being used? ie, wouldn't high r_speeds for someone on a lower spec machine, not be considered high for someone on a high spec machine, or have I missed the boat all together.
2.What does the info displayed onscreen from the r_speeds 1 command mean ?. Which (if not all) is the important one/ones to watch?
Also, in the Quake console commands file I have, and at "The Forge", it suggests that the following is what will be displayed when the r_speeds command is used
18.7 ms 422/263/127 poly 12 surf
but that is not what I get, I get the following
xx ms xxx wpoly xxx epoly
Bagha
#195 posted by czg [80.202.219.75] on 2003/05/09 07:09:25
xx ms is how many miliseconds it took to render that frame.
xxx wpoly is the number of polygons that is rendered from bmodels. (ie, the world, buttons, doors etc, and also ammo/health boxes) This is also the number that most people refer to when talking about r_speeds.
xxx epoly is the number of polygons that is rendered from .mdls. (ie, monsters, weapons, viewmodel, etc).
The xx ms xxx/xxx/xxx poly xx surf output is in software quake only.
As for what is acceptable r_speeds seems to be variable. In DM, some seem to get pissy if they are over 500. In SP, some think they should stay belov 700, others feel it's fine to go up to a 1000. I know I have sinned a lot on the r_speeds part myself, but what is done is done...
I generally think though that you can justify most r_speeds peaks if the visual gain is worth it. If you can make something excellent looking with 1100 wpoly, then let it be so. If you have made something that takes 1000 wpoly, but looks like crap, forget it.
Titlelittletittitle
#196 posted by Kell [82.41.48.30] on 2003/05/09 08:09:53
I know I have sinned a lot on the r_speeds part myself
[sarcastic comment missing]
If you can make something excellent looking with 1100 wpoly, then let it be so. If you have made something that takes 1000 wpoly, but looks like crap, forget it.
right on. r_speeds average and r_speeds high are different: if your SP map averages around 500 - 600 and peaks only briefly at 1400, that's just fine AFAIAC
Help Me Plzzzz!
#197 posted by IndrekSnt [62.65.238.125] on 2003/05/09 10:16:08
I have made a kinda big map and with a few more boxes Quake III Arena started hanging with "Waiting Snapshot...". I made my map in QuArK 6.3.0 and also put there some portals with "HINT" texture. When i go and check for holes it reports almost about every light. :(((( What should i do?
Also About R_speeds:
#198 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/09 15:21:55
if they are too high in a place where there is little or no combat, that is more acceptable than if you have too high r_speeds in a place with lots of combat, where the potential choppiness can hurt your player's ability to fight.
Thanks To All
#199 posted by Abyss [203.51.204.208] on 2003/05/09 17:22:29
With the faster machines we have now, doesn't that lessen the need to worry about r_speeds. I have a map which r_speeds (wpoly) "were" (I have adjusted it now) continually up around and above 2000, now, durung play I could not tell any difference between that area, and say, another area where the r_speeds were at a level that would be considered "acceptable" 600/700.
So,...I am just trying to get a grip on why you should worry about it, if it doesn't actually seem to have any effect, except maybe for those with lower spec machines.
I seem to remember a thread about this, but I think it was on QMap :( , I would have liked to have read that today, with my interest in mapping, and not purely as a player, like it was then.
Forgive me if my questions/reasoning is stupid, there's probably a good reason for that :)
Oh Shit...
#200 posted by necros [172.203.125.9] on 2003/05/09 21:16:49
what about a map that averages around 1000 and peaks at 3000 in multiple areas? :o
Necros:
#201 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/09 22:18:07
it'll probably run fine on recent machines. But very poorly on machines more than a couple years old.
Hmmm
#202 posted by Abyss [203.51.204.208] on 2003/05/09 22:49:47
I put mine back to how it was, even if the r_speeds are not considered "acceptable", I can't see how not dropping below 150FPS at 1600x1200 could be considered unacceptable. Maybe on lower machines, but thats how it goes. I'm prolly the only one who'll ever see it anyway, so who cares.
So
#203 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/05/10 01:00:06
"Those arches you had gotten down to six brushes might end up being thirty after QBSP gets at them."
So what the heck do you do about it when that happens?
Func_wall
#204 posted by nb [203.109.254.49] on 2003/05/10 01:17:04
(but if you hit MAX_MODELS you`re going to have to live with the thirty.)
What Should I Do?
#205 posted by IndrekSnt [62.65.238.125] on 2003/05/10 06:47:41
Do i have to delete some boxes or add some common textures to my map?
Blah
#206 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/05/10 11:14:31
"Those arches you had gotten down to six brushes might end up being thirty after QBSP gets at them."
Actually there would be zero brushes after qbsp is done with them....
#207 posted by r_+speeds [81.3.154.242] on 2003/05/12 00:38:51
Watch out for those epolys ! 2k wpolys is not a problem even for 300mhz cpu, but add 20 grunts and it significantly slows down .
Ya CyBeAr
#208 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2003/05/12 02:16:28
...it took me ages to get my head around that.
/me hugs Aardappel for his patience.
CyBeAr
#209 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/05/12 04:49:20
I know that, but what do you do when qbsp is cutting things up in a retarded way (which I think is what the quote is saying)?
Try...
#210 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/12 04:57:18
changing the brush order in the map file. For example, copy, delete, and paste one of the brushes. This is something i've thought about, but never tried.
Changelevel...
#211 posted by here [193.252.191.3] on 2003/05/12 05:37:50
How to create a changelevel on Return to castle wolfenstein with gtk-radiant ? P.S. :( thanks for help meltslime ;-))
Brush Order In Map File
#212 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.25] on 2003/05/12 12:45:59
I've tried changing that extensively and haven't seen any benefit at all for qbsp.
However, the face order in each brush is very important for how qbsp builds the map. That's why I added automatic face sorting to my compilers.
Looking For Mappers For Ultimate Deathmatch(q1)
#213 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.143] on 2003/05/13 18:54:47
To Fat Controller:
Ok, here you go. Follow the link on my website to the download: http://www.freewebs.com/shadowalke...
Note: This mod is always being upgraded. Adding items to the bsp should be easy with the latest upgrades to v1.6 Also, I'm trying to get in the custents mods.
To all:
For those who use quark. I have specialized runes that use bit flags. Within quark, you can use bits on spawnflags. How can I make my own set of bits flags for an attribute entry?
as
Eeeh
#214 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.110.117] on 2003/05/14 05:05:51
changing the brush order in the map file. For example, copy, delete, and paste one of the brushes. This is something i've thought about, but never tried.
- this has actually helped me out a few times before, especially when working with large visgroups and exporting to .map/compiling only visible groups in worldcraft. got past a few errors that were solved by repasting stuff in pbrsp1 iirc
So This Guy Walks Into A Bar...
#215 posted by czg [80.202.31.16] on 2003/05/19 09:09:02
Been dabbling a bit with the QC, and hey! I suck at it! What I'm trying to make first of all, is a chasecam of sorts. Now this thing that I've got already, it's called from PlayerPreThink() or whatever its name is, and the positioning bit of the code works like it should, (well, just about anyway) but the angle setting thingy like totally doesn't work.
The camera just points at seemingly random angles each frame and also locks the mouse down so you can't turn around no more for some reason.
Wondering if someone could help me a bit with what I'm doing wrong. Besides poining me to various tutorials.
The point here is to have the camera focus smack bang on the player. (the self entity in this case)
void() Chasecam_Update =
{
if (!self.camera) return;
local vector camera_origin, v1;
v1 = self.origin;
v1_z = v1_z + 192;
v1 = (v1 - self.camera.origin);
local float l1;
l1 = vlen(v1);
if(l1 >= 16){ //This whole if block is a bit dodgy I know
camera_origin = self.camera.origin + (v1 * 0.2);
if(CAM_LOCK_HEIGHT){
camera_origin_z = self.camera.origin_z;
}
setorigin (self.camera, camera_origin);
}
v1 = self.origin - self.camera.origin;
v1 = vectoangles(v1);
SetAngles(v1);
};
void(vector ang) SetAngles =
{
msg_entity = self;
WriteByte (MSG_ONE,SVC_SETANGLE);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_x);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_y);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_z);
};
PLZ HLP KTHX!
Oh Yeah
#216 posted by czg [80.202.31.16] on 2003/05/19 09:11:28
CAM_LOCK_HEIGHT
is toggled between true or false on an impulse.
When it is true, the camera remains at a fixed height regardless of the players z-position.
That particular bit works fine btw...
Beh
#217 posted by czg [80.202.31.16] on 2003/05/19 13:13:01
<NotoriousRay> some of your vector stuff looked alittle borky
Yeah, that's another problem too...
I'll just admit right away that I have no goddamned clue as to what the two v1 = ... lines about halfway down are supposed to do, even though I drew some goddamned lines and wrote down a little bit of vector math even.
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoi...
(The poor man's scanner; a digital camera.)
Scanners Are Much Cheaper Than Digicams !
#218 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/05/19 17:09:30
blah
Invisible Func_trains
#219 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.130] on 2003/05/19 17:27:21
Does anyone know why a func_train (a small boat for the player) suddenly becomes invisible somewhere along the ride (always at the same spot) ? The object is still there, it's just invisible.
The func_train travels quite some distance (the end path_corner is way out of sight from the start), is there a problem with that ?
Um...
#220 posted by necros [172.154.145.144] on 2003/05/19 20:16:37
back a little while ago, i tried to do something like that... a long ride with a func_train.
basically, i think it's something to do with the vis code.
func_trains only get calc'd at their starting point, and, as you know, func_s aren't drawn if they aren't visible... what's happening is your train is moving away, so that it's start point (the point at which the vis calc'd it's visibility) is no longer able to be seen by the player... therefore, quake stops drawing it, thinking it's no longer visible.
to get around this, either don't vis the level (heh) or remove vis blockers so that no matter where you are on the path, you can always 'see' the func_train's startpoint.
Or...
#221 posted by necros [172.154.145.144] on 2003/05/19 20:17:48
there's just an inherent limit to how far away you can be from the starting point... :shrug:
oh, and what happened to the textbox font! it's all crayzeh!
Necros:
#222 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/19 21:43:00
that doesn't sound right at all.
But, there might be a related problem. Vis for all bmodels depends on the visiblity of the leaf they are in. What happens when they are in more than one leaf? I think it goes by the leaf that the model origin is in. If it's a big model, that leaf might be outside the PVS, and other parts of the model might be right in front of you.
The Invisible Func_train Effect
#223 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.25] on 2003/05/20 12:55:34
is present also before vis is run. I also had a suspicion that vis could have something to do with it, but I can't see how when the problem is there before vis is run.
I've tried to reduce amount of objects (not many) in the area, block out areas beyond this point with a big brush, manipulating the path_corners to see if anything changes. So far, no luck.
The func_train is from the Custents package and therefore slightly modified. However, I can't find any documentation regarding this particular invisibility "feature" ...
Well
#224 posted by czg [80.202.31.16] on 2003/05/20 13:15:41
This occurs in czg01 as well. The "train" you ride into the exit also disappears when you have travelled some distance. And this is just along a straight line, so it would be odd indeed if it had anything to do with vis...
I Vaguely Remember
#225 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.238] on 2003/05/20 17:05:44
you mentioning that in the readme. I have now tested extensively and I can only conclude that it indeed seems to be the actual distance between start and end that is the culprit.
Changing # path_corners or removing all visible obstacles doesn't seem to help at all.
Thanks for the info.
Really?
#226 posted by necros [172.157.70.131] on 2003/05/20 19:08:52
interesting... i don't know why i would have thought it had something to do with vis then...
i stand corrected.
maybe it has to do with the engine itself? anyway tried this in modified engines?
Only Fitz/WinQuake
#227 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.237] on 2003/05/21 05:36:47
so far. It is the same behaviour using the traditional (non-Custents) func_train as well.
CZG:
#228 posted by Wazat [144.38.161.139] on 2003/05/21 20:44:26
If you still need help with the camera or any coding, e-mail me at:
static _ void @ hotmail . com (remove them spaces).
I'd be happy to help you with the camera code and anything else. You'll likely run into the sticky camera effect and the water bug and I may be able to help.
Texture...
#229 posted by necros [172.142.6.80] on 2003/05/28 18:03:44
can anyone point me to a wad of the oblivion textures
Fern Has Them...
#230 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/28 18:13:20
http://suspenlute.com/01/obtex2.zi...
A Little Problem On Which Path To Take...
#231 posted by necros [172.156.153.101] on 2003/05/28 21:22:25
ok, well, i mentioned in the qexpo thread that i was doing a ss2 themed map... well, i've got two choices now that i'm torn between.
basically, should i make the map for regular 'stock' quake execs, or should i make it for the tenebrae engine.
Tenebrae:
Pro - It will look fantastic, be able to use more than just 256 palette, shadows.
Con - It will take twice as long to make, not as many people will be able to play it, possibility that i might give up if it takes to long and gets too complicated.
Stock Quake:
Pro - Easy for me to make, accessible to everyone, good possibility that it'll be finished.
Con - Won't look as good, ss2 texs don't look the greatest in quake's palette (i suppose i could try to figure out how to redo the palette, so this point could be moot)
can i have some opinions on this? which route should i take?
-----------
btw, thanks metl. you made those textures?
Best Choice
#232 posted by Vodka [81.3.153.17] on 2003/05/28 23:06:15
just use any engine that supports external pcx textures: tq, fq etc
also I`d recomend you use q1rad to have lighting similar to sys shock
Yeah
#233 posted by starbuck [80.192.123.134] on 2003/05/29 08:31:33
i was gonna suggest to use external textures but speedy got there first. That way the textures wont lose their quality from system shock, its still easy to build and will work fine in GL/software quake. And then if i get bored i can make the SS textures into tenebrae format too! :)
Well, I'm Not Realling In Need Of Help
#234 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.232.42] on 2003/05/29 15:38:13
Okay, I asked this in IRC but Maj told me not to ask questions. So, dutifully ignoring him, I thought I'd ask my question here.
When lighting a Q1 map, and it says "Lighting face 15197 of 15343", it's refering to surface planes that were formerly brushes, right? And not triangles (unless the surface was made of a triangle)? Furthermore, if it is planes from former brushes (and I suspect it is) then when QBSP merges two surfaces, that becomes a single face, yes?
No real reason for asking, other than curiosity. And I think I answered my own question, anyway.
Q1rad...
#235 posted by necros [172.128.132.46] on 2003/05/29 17:12:13
is it possible to completly light a map solely from surface lights? i'm trying right now, but everything is very dark...
what exactly does -gamma do? will it make stuff brighter?
Faces Are Polygons
#236 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/29 17:26:49
they are the things you see when you're playing quake. They are what gets lit.
Err
#237 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.232.42] on 2003/05/29 21:33:39
Polygon meaning many sides, so yes faces are polygons. That's not what I meant though. When running r_speeds it's measured in polygons, which I thought was a count of the visible triangles which are visible with the showtris command.
But regardless, I believe I found the answer to my own question. In the quotation above (Lighting face 15197 of 15343) I took that from the lighting step of SM69, and the number of triangles in that map is certainly much above fifteen thousand. Fifteen thousand surfaces sounds much more reasonable.
R_speeds...
#238 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/29 22:15:54
in stock quake engines measures polygons, not triangles. pretty much every part of the process, from light.exe to the renderer, only cares about polygons. Of course, your video card turns them into triangles before rasterizing them (in non-software engines.)
Interesting
#239 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.232.42] on 2003/05/30 00:49:38
I have learned.
Doors In Worldcraft
#240 posted by ChAiNeR [62.30.71.189] on 2003/05/31 22:51:02
hi, i have a question.. is it possible to have a door which opens when triggered, and stays open until triggered a second time? If so.. how can that be implemented using the Worldcraft editor? (if anyone else here uses it!)
TIA :)
Yes
#241 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/05/31 23:11:01
spawnflags 32 (i think this is "toggle") and wait -1.
I Need Help !!!
#242 posted by here [195.154.41.57] on 2003/06/01 11:47:21
I try to make a changelevel on Return to castle wolfenstein . And i found a new thing the script : I need french help for scripting.
Where can i found it ?
Here
#243 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/01 18:34:48
I wouldn't know. You might find more help if you asked in one of the french RTCW forums. I know there are at least two active ones.
Metlslime
#244 posted by ChAiNeR [62.30.71.189] on 2003/06/02 03:12:34
thanks, wasn't quite sure what the toggle thing meant
Thanks Pushplay
#245 posted by here [193.252.191.3] on 2003/06/02 03:37:00
I go now on RTCW !!!
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed
#246 posted by ToadWarrior [62.253.128.4] on 2003/06/02 06:58:18
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?
Not the file isn't read-only. :P
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed
#247 posted by ToadWarrior [62.253.128.4] on 2003/06/02 07:18:42
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?
Not the file isn't read-only. :P
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed
#248 posted by ToadWarrior [62.253.128.4] on 2003/06/02 07:51:51
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?
Not the file isn't read-only. :P
TRIPLE POST!
#249 posted by . [172.200.12.171] on 2003/06/02 12:22:00
Ban him.
But with all seriousness, try uninstalling/reinstalling?
Righto...
#250 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/06/02 21:20:06
Q1/WC1.6/Tyrlite
In the DM version of Usher Recompiled I've got some weapon spawn pads that do not appear in the SP version...no problem, just make 'em func_walls and tag them "not in easy/normal/hard". However, they are lit pads and the light remains whether in DM or SP.
Do I need to change the .fgd so I can lose the lights in SP (is this even possible)? Is there another work around?
Distrans
#251 posted by Tyrann [203.34.35.230] on 2003/06/02 22:13:21
Give all the lights you want removed a targetname and create a trigger to turn them off that is only present in SP.
/me Kills The Lights And HUGs Tyrann
#252 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/06/03 02:42:46
thanx T.
Just Checking...
#253 posted by distrans [203.29.131.3] on 2003/06/04 02:58:03
Q1/WC1.6/Tyrlite
When increasing the flare angle on spotlights do I add and "angle" key or an "angles" key?
Angle.
#254 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/04 13:34:13
Ta Metlslime...
#255 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2003/06/05 01:50:30
Hmmm
#256 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/05 06:18:45
I've run into an odd problem with my coagula map. I'm trying to make it nice and interesting, but the nuts and bolts of it is that it's a box map that goes straight up. When I fly up to the top 3 meters or so the game acts as though I'm surrounded by an HOM, so I see a still of whatever it is I saw until I went above that height. I know there's supposed to be more map to go, because I built it and I can see stuff up there. I can live with that flaw, because you'd only get up there on a rocket jump, but it's weird.
Is this a limitation of Quake? A compile error?
So...
#257 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/06 21:16:59
This problem is entirely unique to me and my map?
Pushplay
#258 posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112] on 2003/06/07 01:30:51
I haven't seen it before. Make sure you're not building outside the +/-4096 limits. Check if the problem is present before/after vis. Otherwise... I don't know.
GRAAH!
#259 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.177] on 2003/06/07 02:52:39
Anyone know where I can find some detailed info on lighting for RTCW? All I can find are those ditzy "Your First Room" tuts...
4096 You Say?
#260 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/07 04:15:57
Yeah, that looks like exactly where the problem is. Great, I'll just select everything and move it down some. I've gone as high as I'm going to go, and ground floor is only -256.
Quake Errors..
#261 posted by ChAiNeR [80.192.9.7] on 2003/06/09 18:05:36
Hi again
i've almost finished my new map (quake 1) but when i tried compiling and playing it i got a bunch of error messages in the quake console. They were something like this:
TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS (x8)
HOST ERROR: TOO MANY STATIC ENTITIES
IF anyone knows what these mean & how to fix them then i'd be grateful if they could let me know. thanks.
Static Entities
#262 posted by necros [172.172.142.199] on 2003/06/09 19:22:03
are things like walltorches, flames, small flames, light globes...
unfortunatly, you've got too many of them! you'll need to remove some and convert them into regular lights.
Ahhhh
#263 posted by ChAiNeR [80.192.9.7] on 2003/06/09 20:16:22
that explains it, thanks necros.
I had light prefabs with torches on them throughout the map, i'll try changing some of them to light textures. hope to get this map finished and sent to underworldfan within the next few days :)
...
#264 posted by necros [172.172.142.199] on 2003/06/09 20:21:31
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
615 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
3805 brushfaces
4993 csgfaces
2978 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----\
*** ERROR 42: Didn't split the polygon in SubdivideFace
Elapsed time : 0:01
Peak memory used : 2.0 MB
didn't split the polygon?
i'm using aguiRe's (for real this time :) ) modified treeqbsp.
Necros, One Or More
#265 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.48] on 2003/06/10 05:49:58
of your textures are scaled too small. Scale values below 0.2 can cause this error, but it appears to depend on the actual texture/face size as well. Maybe someone can clarify this.
I've made a utility that can enforce a minimum texture scale in a map file but it's probably not a good idea to use it on a map that has very precise texture scaling on small objects. It's very good for quick tests, though.
One More Thing About Those Error Messages..
#266 posted by ChAiNeR [80.192.9.7] on 2003/06/10 13:17:46
i've taken out alot of the torches now, and the map runs, but i still get the TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS line come up about 10-20 times before it loads. i think i remember seeing this on a large map i downloaded a while back, will it still run fine on all versions of quake?
Sound Channels
#267 posted by grahf [68.169.44.54] on 2003/06/10 16:14:31
What that means, chainer, is that there are too many sound making things in your map. Torches, grunting monsters, sky and water, ambient sounds, etc, all count towards the total # of sounds allowed, which is fairly low (i think MAX_CHANNELS = 8).
So it will play fine, but when the error comes up, you won't hear some sounds. This can have strange consequences, like firing your gun and no sound being made.
Speaking About Compiling Errors...
#268 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.39] on 2003/06/10 16:49:24
I have a problem with the compiling of my map. It compiles without any errors, but when I launch Quake the map doesn't start. When I've removed all buttons from it the map started. Why does it happen? There were no problems with buttons before, but when the map became quite large (over 2200 brushes) the problems have suddenly appeared.
Hm...
#269 posted by necros [172.162.9.93] on 2003/06/10 17:26:56
pulsar, are there any error messages when you start quake? or is it just a black screen?
and is it only when you remove buttons, and nothing else? (doors maybe?)
check if you've got a funky string in one of your buttons. irrc, you can't use " in your strings... maybe others too... that could break the map... maybe...
Out Of Interest
#270 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/10 21:31:01
How many brushes define make up an average map?
IIRC...
#271 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2003/06/11 00:11:06
Around the 700 mark for DM and 2000+ for SP. There are exceptions of course e.g., coagula style levels.
Err...
#272 posted by blurt [131.172.4.45] on 2003/06/11 00:14:10
Rightly or wrongly, I assume you're talking about Q1.
Rightly
#273 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/11 02:53:45
I don't know how 'define' got into that previous post.
Q1rad
#274 posted by DaZ [212.56.118.96] on 2003/06/11 14:04:40
Having used this extensively necros it is possible to light a map solely with face lights. CRDM2 had 1 point light, and that was to generate the skylight, all the lighting in the map was done with surfacelights.
When using surface lights you gotta remember that the light is not shinning in all directions (aka a omni point light) but only in the direction the texture is facing. So having a room with loads of lights on the ceiling only will give you a bright floor but a very dark ceiling. The best way to avoid this is to have lights on the floor and ceiling, or bright lights on the walls, so that light is cast in all directions.
Remember also that surfacelights make the texture fullbright, so dont go making a 512x512 texture a surfacelight or is gonna stick out like a sore thumb.
Another thing, generally be generous with the amount of light coming off the textures, as they seem to be roughly half as bright as a omni point light. As a rough guide the little 32x32 light squares on the floors and ceilings in crdm2 had a brightness of 180.
Are you using the -bounce option? If un-specified at the command prompt light will bounce off surfaces and the map will be much brighter but at the expense of contrast, the map can look very washed out with light, its less apparent in a GL engine that supports colored lights (if your using colors) but load it in software and ouch :) For Quake I would use -bounce 0 as it produces the best overall effect ie. More contrast, but it does mean placing more light light emitting textures or making your tex lights brighter still...
Hope this helps.
Necros
#275 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2003/06/11 16:23:07
There were no error messages. My map sometimes even crashes the system when I try to launch it.
At first I decided that it happens because my very slow machine can't compile the big map right. The I've sent the map to my friend with fast system for compiling. The result was the same: the map haven't started.
The thing is that everything works right til one moment when it stops working without any reasons.
I've just added about 50 brushes (and no entities). All these brushes were normal (I tryied to avoid solids with strange form). The only idea was to remove some entities (that worked fine before). I started from removing buttons and it worked.
I'm very confused with it. Anybody help...
If The Map Is Very Big,
#276 posted by necros [172.168.255.38] on 2003/06/11 16:32:06
maybe there are too many edicts?
Daz,
#277 posted by necros [172.168.255.38] on 2003/06/11 16:34:13
thanks for the info, duder. although, i started using q1rad primarily for the bouncing light effect...
-----------
next question: for those of you who take big performance hits when faced with flickering lights, is that a precompiled flickering light, or the light given off by rockets and explosions?
PuLSaR
#278 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.232.42] on 2003/06/11 17:19:04
One time I was making a Q2 map and had setup a func_areaportal with a func_door. I did something wrong (I don't remember what exactly it was) but whenever the door was opened the game would crash. Maybe you have a similar situation.
You said that you started to have the problem when the map became large, so maybe there was something you added recently that is causing this.
Mappage Problem
#279 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/11 22:12:13
I've built most of the structure of my map, and now I'm placing monsters. I placed a few grunts on the platform you start on, but they're pitch black. I even placed a 200 level light over each one and they remain pitch black. What does it take to light these suckers up?
Pushplay:
#280 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/11 23:36:01
quake lights models by drawing a line straight down from each entity until it hits a world polygon. It then uses the brightness value from the lightmap on that polygon to determine how bright the model should be. If they are standing on a func_plat or something, then they will not be lit by the lightmap on that plat, but on the first non-entity poly below it. Which might be pitch black.
Necros
#281 posted by nb [203.109.254.49] on 2003/06/11 23:58:46
Both. They're done the same way, unless you use gl_flashblend (which stops explosions/muzzleflashes from lighting the world).
Metlslime
#282 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/12 01:17:14
Thanks.
That's an odd scheme. Yes, my monsters are standing on a func_door and below that is sky. Are there any workarounds?
!
#283 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/06/12 02:42:07
Hey, I figured it out. Since the game won't light the sky I just made a room you can't get into under the map and lit it apropriatly.
I do see why they went with that scheme, it must be wicked fast to calculate.
Pushplay:
#284 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/12 02:52:10
the reason they went with that scheme is that the alternative is calculating light values for empty space. They finally did do this, in the Quake 3 engine. (the "light grid")
It doesn't seem like a big problem (except for the extra disk space / memory use.) But, keep in mind that there really isn't much of a need for it in the original quake levels -- 99% of the time, monsters are standing on lightmapped world polys.
Really?
#285 posted by necros [207.236.63.4] on 2003/06/12 13:13:48
damn... some people are gonna hate my map...
is it bad to have lights flicker at rates of 0.01?
PuLSaR
#286 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.138] on 2003/06/12 13:23:51
If you wish, you can send the zipped map+wad to me, I'll take a look and see what I can find out.
AguirRe
#287 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.92] on 2003/06/13 00:37:39
Well, there's even less than a half of my map ready right now (cuz problems have started) but I may send it to you.
What's your e-mail?
Check Out
#288 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.105] on 2003/06/13 06:06:14
my forum account info in the People section here http://www.celephais.net/board/peo... .
Just de-obfuscate first ...
Aguire:
#289 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/13 14:56:45
your name in the "#1337 posted by aquiRe" also links directly to your user info page.
I Know, But Since
#290 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.197] on 2003/06/13 18:06:00
he didn't seem aware of the People feature, I thought I should point it out explicitly. All is well now, I have received the map and will take a look at it.
#219, AguirRe (delayed Response)
#291 posted by Tyrann [63.12.9.84] on 2003/06/21 04:04:08
I found the reason for problems with func_trains (and any other bmodels) that move a long way.
Due to the way that the Quake network protocol works, entity co-ordinates wrap around at +/-4096. Now, because of the way qbsp works, every bmodel has it's origin at the centre of the map when in it's default position. Therefore, it can only more 4096 units in any direction before it's origin slips off the edge of the map and appears on the other side. At this point, the engine thinks that the model isn't visible, so it is culled.
I can make the problem go away by trading off one bit of precision on entity co-ordinates for a greater range of values, but this changes the network protocol, making netplay and demos incompatible with the original quake.
I suppose you could make qbsp translate the brushes to be centered around the origin before compiling each bmodel and then place the offset needed into it's origin key. Not sure how well that would work - you want to try it aguirRe? This would work around the problem in future maps, but existing maps are stuck with the problem.
Hmm...
#292 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/21 05:29:14
i thought the origin for a brushmodel was at the lower south-west corner of the bounding box? For func_trains to follow pathnodes, it seems that this is the case. But i haven't gone code diving, so this is just based on conjecture (and mapping experience.)
Tyrann
#293 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.180] on 2003/06/21 06:11:47
Thanks for the info, I'll think about it. I've only encountered this problem twice in a huge number of maps, so maybe it's not worth the effort. It's good to know why objects could disappear though.
Metl
#294 posted by Tyrann [63.12.9.84] on 2003/06/21 12:59:30
It behaves as though the origin is at the "mins" of the bmodel because the QC takes that into account. E.g.
setorigin(self, targ.origin - self.mins);
...and...
SUB_CalcMove(targ.origin - self.mins, self.speed, train_wait);
Tyrann:
#295 posted by metlslime [207.111.214.194] on 2003/06/21 14:31:14
ah, i see.
Heh... First Time I've Ever Had A Problem With Light...
#296 posted by necros [172.140.171.21] on 2003/06/27 12:50:34
H:\q1\maps>tyrlite -extra nesp09_q1
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 35 from worldspawn.
1487 entities read, 831 are lights.
WARNING: entity at (0, 0, 0) (trigger_once) has unmatched target
************ ERROR ************
GetFileSpace: overrun
cheked on quakelab, but there's no solution to that problem... help?
You've Exceeded The
#297 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.36] on 2003/06/27 13:37:58
max light data size (MAX_MAP_LIGHTING) which I believe is 1MB in TyrLite 0.94 if you don't use coloured lighting.
Either you'll need to change lighting in a way that you get below the limit or you'll need another light tool with higher limits.
Maybe Tyrann can fix it for you or suggest how to reduce the light data size.
Necros
#298 posted by Vodka [217.195.93.187] on 2003/06/27 20:22:13
Use large texture scale (like 2) on some huge distant surfaces to save lightmap space. Should help
Is There A Way,
#299 posted by necros [172.132.1.57] on 2003/06/27 20:34:51
to know how much i've gone over the limit?
this only happens in -extra, and i want to know if it's worthwile for me to go around fixing stuff or just release the map without -extra on light...
is there a way over the limit without changing the map? or is this one of those quake limits that can't be changed without altering the netcode...
The Tool Aborts
#300 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.10] on 2003/06/28 04:57:40
when it reaches the limit, so it can't tell you how much extra you'd require to finish.
As I said, if you don't want to change lighting, you'll need another light tool that has this (and other limits) raised. At http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k you'll find such a tool.
I also have an enhanced version of TyrLite 0.94 that among other things has this limit quadrupled (to 4MB). If you ask Tyrann, he can do the same fix to the official version.
AFAIK, the engines or netcode has no problems with having this limit raised.
MAX_MAP_LIGHTING
#301 posted by Tyrann [63.12.9.5] on 2003/06/28 05:30:25
Yep, that's a bug in TyrLite. I meant it to allocate 4MB, but a logic error in LightWorld() screwed things up. I have a few minor changes queued up now, so v0.95 should be along soon.
Necros
#302 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/06/28 09:29:02
yeah try scaling up textures on large rocky walls etc like speed said, for one the lightmaps are smaller on them and 2, I actually think the walls look better with this done to them, makes the walls look huge and massive a bulky and oooooh u know craka!
I ate a fish.
Would There Be
#303 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.249] on 2003/06/30 12:56:06
a general interest of having access to the old QMap "Mapping Help" thread dating from Jun 2000 to Oct 2002 ?
I have it archived in html format with graphics and could upload it to someone who'd like to host it (metlslime ?).
It's quite big and not in a nice format for the bandwidth limited, but maybe that could be fixed too ?
AguiRe
#304 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.80.195.46] on 2003/06/30 13:08:13
Hmm, how many megs is it zipped?
About 700K Zipped
#305 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.252] on 2003/06/30 16:33:16
for a version that only has one html file for all three years (rather difficult for the browser to handle - sucks memory to no end). This variant is not very useful online but OK for a powerful computer offline.
I've also made a separate 3-part version that has one html file for each year which is easier to manage in the browser offline. It will still be difficult to use online, though.
The entire package of both versions is about 1.4 MB.
AguiRe
#306 posted by Gom Jabbar [62.226.71.236] on 2003/06/30 17:03:56
Would be cool if you could send me those per mail. I think about putting all the posts into a database and quick code some stuff to search through all the data...
Qmap, Mappng Help
#307 posted by Abyss [61.9.208.173] on 2003/06/30 18:01:57
You couldn't upload it somewhere, so it could be downloaded by those (like me)who may want to read through and get some of the usefull info that is sure to be in there could you? please, huh..................................
#308 posted by Kell [82.41.48.30] on 2003/06/30 18:34:22
If it's under a meg, there's no problem with me uploading it to Signs Of Koth and making a linky thingy on one of my pages. It could also be linked from where ever else.
Uhm...
#309 posted by Gom Jabbar [62.226.71.236] on 2003/06/30 18:52:28
... if I'd put that database up I'll make it available on gomjabbar.de for everyone. Just so you know ;).
Gom Jabbar
#310 posted by aguirRe [195.67.87.131] on 2003/07/01 08:33:19
I've sent the whole package to you by email. If you change it into a more managable/searchable format, publish the link here.
Yay!
#311 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.80.195.5] on 2003/07/01 15:56:39
Got it aguiRe, will see if I come around working on it tonight...
Just A Question
#312 posted by here [62.4.28.228] on 2003/07/03 15:33:06
How to make ladder on q2 ???
Ladder
#313 posted by . [172.171.213.105] on 2003/07/03 16:21:13
Create the ladder brushes as you want but edit their surface attributes and give them the 'ladder' attribute..
that's about all I think is to do, it's been awihle.
QMap Mapping Help
#314 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.125] on 2003/07/04 03:55:36
archived thread is now available for download at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Zip contains both full and split versions. Just unzip and you can use it immediately.
Thank You
#315 posted by Abyss [203.51.196.214] on 2003/07/04 05:06:37
Very much kind sir !!
QMap Mapping Help
#316 posted by Gom Jabbar [62.226.70.163] on 2003/07/04 05:44:07
Will prolly set up a searchable database of the Mapping Help Thread at the weekend.
Refers To 301:
#317 posted by necros [172.175.63.85] on 2003/07/04 14:10:39
Tyrann, that new version wouldn't happen to be done before qexpo, would it? :P
Necros
#318 posted by Tyrann [63.12.9.80] on 2003/07/04 20:30:02
I'll mail you my current version, since there's a little more I want to do before the next release.
Oh Great!
#319 posted by necros [172.129.10.126] on 2003/07/04 21:25:17
thanks a lot! i really wanted to have the made done for sp day on qexpo. :)
Archived Mapping Help Thread
#320 posted by Gom Jabbar [62.226.71.199] on 2003/07/05 13:05:41
I have all posts of the archived Mapping Help thread in a database now (God bless regular expressions).
Since I'm already working on some new stuff for my page, I'm going to add a frontend to search through all those posts or just browse them. If everything works as planned it will be online someday of the next week.
Is There A Way
#321 posted by necros [172.138.194.74] on 2003/07/07 22:24:10
to replace a single texture in an already compiled bsp file?
i really don't feel like recompiling...
I'd Love A Tool To Do That
#322 posted by Tyrann [203.34.35.230] on 2003/07/07 22:43:11
I found some texture misalignments in my coagula map, but there's no way I'm re-compiling that!
Doesn't QuArK...
#323 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.205] on 2003/07/08 00:22:10
allow you to do that?
To Replace A Single Texture In An Already Compiled Bsp
#324 posted by Vodka [195.242.19.158] on 2003/07/08 00:28:50
You can do that with texmex (then import to bsp), but you absolutely have to keep the size of the original. Also there is a tool that unpaks .bsp - might be usefull, not sure where to get it. Ask in #qc or inside3d forums.
If you mean changing the coordinates of a texture on a face - never heard it was possible with in quake.
GTK Radiant + Q1. Textures.
#325 posted by Fst [80.80.111.240] on 2003/07/08 10:18:52
Greetings, great mappers ;) i just wanna ask how to compile a q1-map made in gtkr. i used a tutorial from an 'industri' site (http://ray.onemoremonkey.com/indu... everything works perfect, but when i start map quake crashes with a following message: 'Host_error: texture is not 16 aligned'.
Here is console log:
]/map q1room
*Loaded clogic.dat occupy 12k.
*Loaded progs.dat occupy 400k.
*Loading wad data 'textures/metal.wad'
W_LoadTextureWadFile: Wad file textures/metal.wad doesn't have WAD3 ID
*Loading wad data 'textures/counterstrike.wad'
W_LoadTextureWadFile: Wad file textures/counterstrike.wad doesn't have WAD3 ID
Host_error: texture is not 16 aligned
]_
'metal.wad' is a standart quake WAD, i've downloaded it using a link from tutorial. 'counterstrike.wad' works fine in qoole. so i don't know what's my mistake. could you help me?
that's all ;) tanks a lot.
Thanks, Speedy
#326 posted by necros [172.133.244.172] on 2003/07/08 12:35:20
.
Um... Wait... What?
#327 posted by necros [172.133.244.172] on 2003/07/08 12:38:59
this is what i do...
in texmex, i open up the compiled bsp, delete the old texture, replace with the new texture (same size), but the 'save to bsp' option in the file->save copy menu is greyed out.
how do you do it?
Fst:
#328 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/07/08 15:52:45
You're trying to load a quake wadfile (WAD2.) I think you're using a plug-in that can only read halflife wadfiles (WAD3.)
The Same
#329 posted by Fst [80.80.111.240] on 2003/07/08 16:49:34
2metlslime: plugin? what plugin? i've made a small map in gtkr, then i've converted it into a q1-map file and compiled it using standart tools. i tried to use wad3 but in this case map loads with no textures. could you tell me please the right way to organize q1textures for gtkr (how did you do it?). thanks anyway.
2speedy: ?????, ??????? ;) ?? ?? ? ??? ???? ?? ?????????, ???-?????? ;))
Oops...
#330 posted by Fst [80.80.111.240] on 2003/07/08 16:52:07
2speedy: muzhik, vyruchay. ty zhe u nas spetz po texturam, kak-nikak? ;))
Fst:
#331 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/07/08 19:21:50
I've never used Gtkr for quake1, but i don't think Gtkr can read WAD2 files -- i think you'll have to convert your textures to jpeg or tga.
Hmm
#332 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.176] on 2003/07/08 22:45:40
necros: u have to click on the texture (opens detail mode) then paste the one you want (ctr-v)
fst: haha. I dont know whats wrong with your compiling.
I`v never tried to compile from gtk myself
Get sleepwalker`s map converter and convert to q1 map, then open in your normal q1 editor, cleanup any errors and them compile (thats if you can map without compiling and checking everything in game every 5 minutes).
Also check necros (pq/necros) guide on quake1+gtk mapping, might help.
If you want it explained in russain - email
Quake1/GTK
#333 posted by Abyss [203.51.232.227] on 2003/07/09 02:44:53
First you got to have your textures extracted to a folder in your Quake/id1/textures/xxx folder, where xxx=the name of your .wad file. Use texmex. This is so GTK can read the textures and show them in the editor. You must also have the texture .wad file in the same directory as your compile tools. Also, the texture .wad file you are using must be added to the worldspawn of the map, otherwise they will not show in game. Also, you cannot compile the map with the GTK tools (not for use in Quake1 anyway) you must use Quake compile tools, just incase you didn't know.
qbsp, vis compile tools can be found here
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
and tyrlite here
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/
Let Me Explain Myself....
#334 posted by Fst [80.80.111.241] on 2003/07/09 10:48:26
I have textures extracted in the correct folder in .jpg format.
I have map converter and regular compile tools.
I don't use (omg!) gtkr compile tools for q1.
I've read necros' guide and industri guide to (see post #22,#23).
I've filled the 'wad' key in worldspawn properties.
So i think there's something wrong with .wad files (2Abyss: it is in the same folder as compile tools).
Could you tell me what is the right format for quake .wad files and i'll convert my wads to this format (texmex? wally?).
2Speedy: thanks. your way isn't ideal but it does work.
One more question: what is the correct syntax for 'wad' key of worldspawn: 'textures1.wad;textures2.wad' or 'd:\textures1.wad;d:\textures2.wad... ?
Thank you.
Texes
#335 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.80.195.33] on 2003/07/09 12:22:57
If the .wad's reside in the same dir as your .map file 'texes.wad; texes2.wad' will be ok, otherwise you have to use the full path afaik.
To create a .wad file you can either use TexMex or Wally, iirc there are options in the save dialog to set the game you want to use this wad with.
Sky Lighting?
#336 posted by grahf [68.169.44.54] on 2003/07/11 17:42:07
how do you guys do it? sure there is tyrlite's skylight feature, but that only lights from one direction for the entire map. if you need sky light coming in from more than one direction, you're screwed.
I've seen some people place a bunch of small lights along the sky-ceiling of their map, which seems like a good idea. My question is, what values are appropiate? and how many lights?
Sky Lighting
#337 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/11 18:05:41
The intensity and quantity of lights will of course vary between rooms and their sizes. Normally if I'm not using Tyrlite's skylight, then I use just one light for the sun, with a light value of around 200, and a wait value that's usually around .2, but sometimes more or less. Smaller, low-intensity lights (and anti-lights) get placed around to add ambience and enhance the shadows cast by the "sun" light. These smaller lights usually have a light value of around 75 (or -75 if it's an anti-light) and varying wait values, but generally .25 to .4.
Now here's the part where someone comes along and tells me how oddly I go about lighting outdoor rooms.
The Secret To Lighting:
#338 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/07/11 18:32:24
play with it until it looks good. (This sometimes takes a while.)
#339 posted by Kell [82.41.48.30] on 2003/07/11 20:00:29
(This sometimes takes a while.)
And the award for 'Understatement Of The Week' goes too...
:D
#340 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.95] on 2003/07/12 00:45:43
"delay" "3" lights have no falloff (just like sunlight) - might try that.
But the real thing is to use radiocity sunlight
You Might Want
#341 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.185] on 2003/07/12 05:53:03
to check out the enhanced sunlight feature of my Light at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
It makes an attempt to make outdoor sunlight more realistic and specifically doesn't require an excessive minlight value to balance the hard shadows of the normal sunlight.
Hm...
#342 posted by necros [172.171.200.210] on 2003/07/12 12:29:01
if all you want is different sunlight mangles in different rooms, you could use q1rad, put the bounce to 0 (effectivily disabling the radiosity stuff) and then use the env_sky or what ever the ent is to do different lighting in each outdoor area.
erm... did that make sense?
Also, What's
#343 posted by necros [172.171.200.210] on 2003/07/12 12:30:03
Mirrored plane
got that when compiling a map with the q3map tool...
Hi
#344 posted by maiden [66.185.84.71] on 2003/07/12 23:47:40
This is not a mapping question but anyway, does anyone know how to stop the player from tilting when strafing? It feels like the dude is standing on a skateboard. Thanks!
Maiden:
#345 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.205] on 2003/07/13 03:01:00
try messing with the various cl_* variables. One of them probably controls it.
Try These Values
#346 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.49] on 2003/07/13 04:51:50
cl_backspeed 400
cl_bob 0
cl_forwardspeed 400
cl_pitchspeed 250
cl_rollangle 0
cl_sidespeed 350
cl_upspeed 200
cl_yawspeed 250
I think it's the cl_rollangle 0 that does what you want. Experiment for best results.
#347 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.1] on 2003/07/13 22:15:27
sv_friction
I Especially Recommend...
#348 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.205] on 2003/07/14 01:14:39
edgefriction -4
Ahaha
#349 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/07/14 06:32:34
That was fun.
Err
#350 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/14 09:32:36
I tried edgefriction -4 but it didn't seem to do anything. :/ What is it supposed to do?
RPG:
#351 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/07/14 13:13:39
walk up to an edge.
Heheh
#352 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/14 13:27:21
I see now. Coagula was not a good map to try that on.
Lol
#353 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/07/14 16:15:29
Bsp Trouble Again...
#354 posted by necros [172.151.159.128] on 2003/07/14 18:32:00
----+----+
5499 brushfaces
7363 csgfaces
4291 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----\
*** ERROR 42: Didn't split the polygon in SubdivideFace
ok, get this error in bsp, and i'm wondering how on earth you pinpoint this sucker down.
See Also Post #265 Above
#355 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.161] on 2003/07/15 12:59:22
You'll have to locate faces that have low texture scaling values, < 0.2 is usually problematic.
If you can't find the offending value(s), you can use my ConvMap utility at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k to set a minimum texture scaling value. Beware that this might make some textures look misaligned. But that might still be easier to fix than manually finding the culprit face(s).
The best thing is if your editor can help you trace bad scaling values, e.g. I think QuArK can do that.
Oh... Hehe
#356 posted by necros [172.156.96.113] on 2003/07/15 13:42:24
looks like i already ran into that problem... :) thanks again, aguiRe!
i'll try the convmap approach.
Multiple Texture Wads W/ Radiant & Quake?
#357 posted by biff_debris [66.191.253.107] on 2003/07/15 21:55:13
Is there a way to swing this, or do I just have to shuffle all my texes into one .wad file? I tried adding a "wad" key to a brush with two filenames, and adding one key to two different brushes, but neither worked.
You Can Do It...
#358 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.205] on 2003/07/15 22:39:17
but fisrt, a wad is not a property of a brush, it's a property of the worldspawn.
the main problem is that radiant has a small area to type the value of a key-value pair, so really long strings (like two wad paths concatenated) might be too long to type in.
Solution: do it in wordpad. Radiant handles this approach fine; i guess it's just the text entry field that is too short.
Wads
#359 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2003/07/16 02:18:22
Or you could put the wads near where you compile your maps, and use relative pathnames.
Re "Multiple Texture Wads W/ Radiant & Quake?"
#360 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.224] on 2003/07/16 03:03:26
Yeah you just add the .wad to the worldspawn, and separate different wads by ;
eg id.wad;rogue.wad
"the main problem is that radiant has a small area to type the value of a key-value pair, so really long strings (like two wad paths concatenated) might be too long to type in."
Nah, not true, I've had 5 wads typed in there, miles of room left. But you may have that problem if you leave the window the default size I guess, I have mine almost full screen
Ahh =)
#361 posted by biff_debris [66.191.253.107] on 2003/07/16 04:46:46
So all I needed was a semi-colon? R4wk -- thanks guys =)
Haha
#362 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/16 10:12:51
Nah, not true, I've had 5 wads typed in there, miles of room left. But you may have that problem if you leave the window the default size I guess, I have mine almost full screen
haha. Neato. I didn't realize that. :)
If you have your wads in C:\jimmy\program files\games\quake\id1\maps\wads\ and link to the full pathname, then I could see how you would still be limited to just a few, but at least you could fit in the whole pathname this way. ;)
Textures...
#363 posted by necros [172.140.167.100] on 2003/07/25 16:30:36
Does anyone know of textures for any game which fit the following criteria?
-Dark
-Mostly grey, black, white, not much color, but NOT brown or grimy (no steampunk or the like)
-must by tech, scifi oriented
-pipes and tubing a plus. ;)
...
#364 posted by necros [172.140.167.100] on 2003/07/25 16:31:15
sort of like the stuff you see in startrek firstcontact with the borg.
Necros
#365 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/07/25 16:55:17
elite force, err elite force 2 :D
And
#366 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/07/25 16:55:33
avp, avp2
Hm...
#367 posted by necros [172.148.243.150] on 2003/07/25 20:19:26
i don't know how to get the textures out of avp2, tbh...
and i do have the demo of elite force. heh, never occured to me. :P
Necros
#368 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.113] on 2003/07/25 21:27:06
never watcher startrek
bu check http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/...
maybe you could use them
Necros
#369 posted by Kell [82.41.48.30] on 2003/07/26 00:18:27
sounds like the Imperial aesthetic from Star Wars:
http://image.reserve.co.uk/www/pub...
And...
#370 posted by Kell [82.41.48.30] on 2003/07/26 00:27:46
http://www.ravengames.com/jediknig...
The only color tends to be on the consoles and that's either red panels or blue text.
...
#371 posted by necros [172.161.172.199] on 2003/07/26 19:09:48
hm... well, i might grab a couple of the textures from your set speedy, but i don't think i'll use the whole thing... it's a little too bright without enough pipes and techy stuff.
i think i'll stay away from starwars textures... they look like they only really work in the sw universe, and i don't want my map to become a starwars map... :)
what's the texture set that Killazontherun used for this unfinished map?
http://pipeline.fov120.com/shots/8...
Erm...
#372 posted by dis_cantlogin [131.172.4.45] on 2003/07/28 02:48:34
Is this them? http://www.ravengames.com/images/e...
What About?
#373 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/07/28 07:51:59
majestic: http://shaderlab.com/slrl/?p=textu...
some of evil lair's textures might match what you were looking for too, not that I really remember your description of what it was yuo wanted....
!
#374 posted by necros [172.171.150.170] on 2003/07/28 13:14:27
distrans: yep! i'm mapping a bit more dark then the guys who did the borg maps though...
cybear: thanks a lot! those textures look like they'll work well.
Necros...
#375 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2003/07/29 02:55:50
...you might want to check out these as well http://www.q-fraggel.de/textures/t...
Hopefully not too much colour or grime, cheers
Thanks, Distrans,
#376 posted by necros [172.157.164.26] on 2003/07/29 13:04:24
but those won't go with the ones i've already chosen.
Asdf
#377 posted by asdf [212.187.37.5] on 2003/07/29 23:32:20
those are ewww distrans
Err
#378 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/31 13:35:22
So why does a tyrlite -extra compile take twice as long after a -level 4 VIS than after a -fast VIS?
Because God Hates You
#379 posted by czg [80.202.219.26] on 2003/07/31 14:08:50
kthxdie
RPG
#380 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.243] on 2003/07/31 17:01:13
The only reason I can think of is that you've exceeded TyrLite's vis capacity of 1.5 MB and therefore its behaviour becomes unpredictable.
This is most likely to happen after a fast vis since the vis data is less compressed then.
How big is the vis data after fast/full ? Is the behaviour repeatable ?
AFAIK vis and light are two completely separate things that can be done in any order without affecting each other.
AguiRe
#381 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/07/31 18:28:12
I just recompiled it (in the name of SCIENCE!) and here are the results:
VIS -fast:
visdatasize: 182827 compressed from 258120
Elapsed time: 0:27
TyrLite -extra:
141.0 seconds elapsed
VIS -level 4:
visdatasize: 72078 compressed from 258120
Elapsed time : 22:41
TyrLite -extra:
244.0 seconds elapsed
At 1790 brushes, the map is not even all that large, so I wouldn't think that I'm exceeding TyrLite's VIS capacity.
RPG
#382 posted by Tyrann [203.34.35.230] on 2003/07/31 21:45:50
Mail me the (unvised) .bsp and .prt files and I'll find out.
*Shrug*
#383 posted by distrans [203.36.15.126] on 2003/08/01 01:11:54
One man's shit is another man's pate.
RPG
#384 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.199] on 2003/08/01 05:01:22
Those vis sizes shouldn't be any problem at all. Just curious, did you rebuild from scratch (i.e. using qbsp) between those two tests ?
Otherwise the initial vis/light data lumps in the bsp are different in the two cases and may (although I can't see why) cause alternate behaviour.
Let's see what Tyrann finds out.
AguiRe, Tyrann
#385 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/01 11:48:10
aguiRe: Yes, I did a complete recompile between the two tests.
Tyrann: It's on its way.
I Made A Brief Test
#386 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.50] on 2003/08/01 12:50:10
of two maps, using both my Light and TyrLite and none of them exposed this behaviour. I got the same timing after fast/full vis.
I'm interested what could be causing this in your specific map (or even possibly in your computer environment).
RPG
#387 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2003/08/01 23:37:01
Ok, I've run the two compiles and there's no difference here. My first suspicion is that this is something simple like a screensaver that comes on during the longer compile and saps CPU cycles.
Otherwise, it's more complex and other factors are involved. What vis program are you using? What's your OS version?
VIS And OS Versions
#388 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/02 10:34:50
Vis 2.15 by Bengt Jardrup
Win98 SE 4.10.2222 A
Note that I have screensavers disabled, and there were no programs open during one compile that were not open during the other (I believe it was just Windows Explorer, MS-DOS Prompt, AIM, mIRC and WinAmp, and WinAmp was not playing anything during either compile). Also note that I noticed this happening at least twice, so it's not just a specific incidence.
When I get a few minutes, I'll do a full and fast compile using the BSP and prt I sent you, since before I did a complete recompile.
Just A Farfetched Idea
#389 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.163] on 2003/08/02 12:41:10
If you open the Properties for your MSDOS Prompt in Win98 (the shortcut you're actually using), go to the last tab and check the settings for Background and Idle Sensitivity, what's their status ?
Re: Just A Farfetched Idea
#390 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/02 13:49:48
Always suspend is unchecked, and Idle sensitivity is set in the middle.
That Seems OK
#391 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.83] on 2003/08/02 15:14:52
If you wish, you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) so I can see if I can repeat the symptoms here (I've got both Win95 and XP). I think Tyrann's running W2K.
What TyrLite version are you using ?
Err, Whatever
#392 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/02 16:03:44
I'm using TyrLite v0.92
...you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) so I can see if I can repeat the symptoms here (I've got both Win95 and XP).
TBH, I'm not that concerned about it, but I understand that you might just be curious as to how this is happening. So, don't obligate yourself to trying to figure this out, but if you want me to, I'll send the .map and wads (I don't mind).
Maybe We Could Wait
#393 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.69] on 2003/08/02 17:11:50
until it becomes a real problem ...
If you like to update, there are new versions both of Tyrann's tools and mine.
Okay
#394 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/02 17:30:22
I've upgraded all the compilers (TreeQBSP, VIS, and TyrLite) so I suppose we'll see if the inconsistency continues.
RPG
#395 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2003/08/02 22:15:11
Ok, I tried on Win98 as well, and using aguirRe's vis tools. I still can't reproduce it. Wierd.
¬_¬
#396 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/03 14:15:37
Well here's an interesting turn of events: I took the .bsp I sent Tyrann and compiled a fast vis and extra light. Afterwards, I replaced it with the unvised and unlit .bsp again, and did a full vis and extra light. Lighting after the fast vis took 224 seconds. Lighting after the full vis took 121 seconds, even though I had the same programs open.
I don't see what I could be doing that would cause light to take twice as long.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter, and apparently it has nothing to do with the compilers since it goes both ways.
You Could Try
#397 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.5] on 2003/08/03 16:03:15
the "-nocount" option in TyrLite to see if it's console window related. In Win9x, the interaction between 32-bit console apps and the actual console window is a complex beast.
Right
#398 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/03 16:43:31
Will do.
Bitch
#399 posted by Vodka [195.242.19.38] on 2003/08/03 17:56:49
sometimes my trigger-door-whatever setups stop to work, even tho I dont change them.
Have to delete and reconstruct to make them work again. ftw ?
bsp, treeqbsp by aguirRe, normal bsp compile (not onlyents)
Speedy,
#400 posted by necros [172.174.228.42] on 2003/08/03 18:30:33
what map editor are you using? it could be the program is fucking up the target/targetnames or something like that.
#401 posted by Vodka [195.242.19.38] on 2003/08/04 00:22:48
readup - bsp
all the links look fine in the editor (you know it draws the lines) and I even hand-checked the map in the notepad - all targets matched.
The Same Old Question
#402 posted by pdictter [12.255.12.18] on 2003/08/07 02:11:11
im pretty sure everyone has asked this, so here it goes. does anyone know of some ass-kicking q1 textures?
see, today i wanted to start a new level but well, had no ideas with the original quake textures... so yeah.
thats it.
Textures
#403 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/07 02:53:19
http://www.planetquake.com/frib/st...
http://www.planetquake.com/warehou...
http://suspenlute.com/01/obtex2.zi...
http://suspenlute.com/01/bulowad2....
http://suspenlute.com/01/deconwad....
http://suspenlute.com/01/sock_eg.z...
http://www.planetquake.com/dl/dl.a...
http://www.planetquake.com/dl/dl.a...
http://www.signsofkoth.co.uk/q1tex...
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/...
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp...
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp...
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp...
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp...
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp...
That should keep you busy for a little while, anyway.
Astonishing Panoramas Of The Endtimes
#404 posted by pdictter [12.255.12.18] on 2003/08/07 03:40:27
YAY! thanks dude. hehe.
Re: You Could Try
#405 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/07 14:23:25
the "-nocount" option in TyrLite to see if it's console window related. In Win9x, the interaction between 32-bit console apps and the actual console window is a complex beast.
aguiRe: I've been using the -nocount option lately, and it seems like the light times are more consistent now. The -extra light after a fast vis has been approximately the same since I started that, and during the full compile I just did TyrLite took about the same amount of time as during the -fast vis compile.
Again, since it appears to be more unpredictable than I initially thought, I have no idea if this actually means anything.
Not The Point
#406 posted by czg [80.202.219.26] on 2003/08/07 17:55:44
...if it takes two minutes or four. What matters is; did it or did it not crash and delete your porn collection?
W_LoadWadFile: Couldn't Load Gfx.wad
#407 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/08 01:53:35
HeWhoWishesNotToBeNamed (that's a lie, actually) gets the error message W_LoadWadFile: couldn't load gfx.wad from FitzQuake after using Tigger-oN's compile.bat to compile the map, move it into the appropriate dir, and load it. I don't really have any more details, but apparently if he just runs FitzQuake after the .bat is through running, and loads the map then, everything is fine.
^^ I'm With Him
#408 posted by Dietz [66.82.9.39] on 2003/08/08 01:56:02
yeah what he said... it really torques my ass crack
RPG:
#409 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.79] on 2003/08/08 03:34:19
This is a problem with quake in general, when running from a batch file. The problem is that the working directory is wrong. To illustrate, this doesn't work:
cd \
c:\games\quake\fitzquake
but this does:
cd games\quake
fitzquake
Couldn't You Do...
#410 posted by bascule [134.146.9.19] on 2003/08/08 08:00:23
...
cd \
c:\games\quake\fitzquake.exe
Surely that would work?
Responses
#411 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/08 12:51:05
Thanks, metlslime. With that information Dietz should be able to get everything working 100% now.
bascule: Try it. I just did. I get the same error message that Dietz gets.
Bascule:
#412 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/08/08 14:12:54
that's the thing i said didn't work.
Wow I've Been Needing Lots Of Help Lately
#413 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/08 16:04:36
Okay, so in Q1 I want this key door to play doors/baseuse.wav when the player has the key and touches it. When "sounds" is set to "2" on the door, baseuse.wav does not play; however, when it's set to "5" baseuse.wav does play. Of course, it also complains about the sound files not being precached because there is no corresponding set of .wavs for that sounds number.
If I play some trickery on Quake and set "noise1" to "doors/baseuse.wav" and "noise2" to "misc/null.wav" then the sound plays, but only after the door has stopped moving. This feels odd and is not the desired effect.
Any ideas on how to get this working how I want?
There's A Bug...
#414 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/08/08 16:10:39
in the id progs.dat where it tries to play both the door open sound AND the door unlock sound on the same channel, thereby cancelling one out.
If you don't want do include new progs.dat, try this hack: make another func_door hidden in the wall or something, and have it open at the same time. the locked door will play the unlock sound, and the hidden door will play the open sound.
Solution!
#415 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/08 16:48:52
Thanks to metlslime and czg for helping me out with this. If any of you want the solution, here is the info:
"classname" "func_door"
"sounds" "5"
"noise2" "misc/null.wav"
"noise1" "misc/null.wav"
"angle" "270"
"target" "goldkeydoor"
"wait" "-1"
"spawnflags" "8"
"classname" "info_notnull"
"use" "train_wait"
"sounds" "1"
"noise" "doors/baseuse.wav"
"wait" "-1"
"targetname" "goldkeydoor"
This creates a func_door that requires the goldkey, and plays no sounds when opened. It targets the info_notnull which plays the baseuse.wav.
Sadomasochistic Behaviour
#416 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/08 17:25:47
<czg> RPG, you could just have set the doors "sounds" to 0, then you don't have to set the noise fields yourself
Yes. So, if "sounds" "0" is used in the func_door, then you don't need to set the "noise1" or "noise2".
Just an FYI if anyone here is trying to use this.
M33p
#417 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/08/08 17:50:54
cool, thanks. That is very helpful! No im not being sarcastic :)
Eh?
#418 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/16 23:17:57
Do func_trains in Q1 not like "wait" values that are decimals? It doesn't wait at a path_corner when I set "wait" to ".25".
Begs The Question...
#419 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/08/16 23:55:14
Why would you want it to wait .25 instead of 1? :)
...
#420 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/17 11:17:09
Because I have three func_trains. They all move together at 64 units/second to form a single structure. I want one of the trains to pause while the other two trains move 16 units in opposite directions, and then I want them to all start moving again in sync.
d/r = t. 16/64 = .25 seconds to pause.
And since the trains move about 384 units before coming to this spot, I don't want all of them to move at 16 units/second because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination.
ROFLMAO
#421 posted by Quaketree [208.59.199.233] on 2003/08/17 17:15:17
"because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination."
Weirdness
#422 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/17 18:21:55
I set "wait" "1.5" and it actually waited one and a half seconds at the path_corner. I still want to know why "wait" ".25" (or "0.25" for that matter) doesn't work on func_trains.
R.P.G.
#423 posted by Kell [82.41.48.161] on 2003/08/17 18:25:14
Try using 0.2. Just for a laff.
Hrm
#424 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.207] on 2003/08/17 19:09:23
does the q1 entity/whatever file gtkrad uses have 'wait' as an integer value? if so, maybe its getting sliced to 0 somehow? probably not, but worth checking out i guess. (more likely a quake thing though)
¬_¬
#425 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/18 00:45:23
Okay...
Partly influenced by Kell, partly influenced by SPoG, and partly on a lark, I set "wait" ".5" and it waits the perfect amount of time and everything is in sync. This makes no sense to me, because the main bit is only supposed to wait while the other two bits move 16 units at 64 units/second. Unless all trains automatically pause 0.25 seconds at each path_corner, this is beyond my comprehension.
But hey, it works. I'm happy. Sort of. Now I don't have an excuse for czg as to why I haven't released the map.
RPG
#426 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2003/08/18 03:27:39
release the map!
make sure its hard though :D
Pausing
#427 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2003/08/18 04:08:39
If a wait is set for the corner, the train will wait for exactly¹ that time. If the wait is not set, or the wait is zero (they're the same thing), it'll wait for 0.1 seconds.
¹: I think. check sv_phys.c in the engine.
Thanks, Nb
#428 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/18 16:15:43
Texture Alignment
#429 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.40] on 2003/08/18 16:19:24
Can anybody who's using TreeQBSP or WQBSP please clarify when you use the options "-oldaxis" or "-alternateaxis" for correct texture alignment of 45 degree brushes?
It's my impression that people who are using WorldCraft must use one of these options all the time although compiler documentation tells the opposite. What gives?
AquiRe
#430 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/08/18 17:06:04
download valve hammer and use dubsp, it makes texturing and aligning SO MUCH EASIER! :)
AguiRe
#431 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/18 17:36:04
I use QERadiant and always use -oldaxis or -alternatexis. I remember from the time that I was helping Killjoy finish KJSP1 that if he used -alternateaxis on WQBSP that the texture alignment was off. He was using WC1.6.
It's -alternateaxis
#432 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2003/08/18 19:37:59
All Quake textures are aligned to the nearest of the xy, yz, or xz planes. However, WC gets confused with 45° angles and sometimes aligns the tex along the wrong plane.
I'm not sure I've explained that correctly, but all you need is -alternateaxis to make stuff line up.
#433 posted by Kell [82.41.48.161] on 2003/08/18 20:52:35
WC gets confused with 45° angles
Oh gods, I remember that :/ IIRC though, it only happens on one plane - so if you have a pyramid whos sides slope at 45 degrees, two flanks will look right, two won't. Or something.
In That Case...
#434 posted by Quaketree [64.121.40.6] on 2003/08/18 23:43:00
Cant you just simply rotate it 90 degrees?
Thanks For The
#435 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.56] on 2003/08/19 05:36:55
input. If I understand correctly, normally (except in the case RPG mentioned) these options should be used to get [45 degree] textures to align properly.
Then, why are these options there? In what case is the (new?) default texture axis handling better? Is there an editor where the default axis handling makes sense?
The "old" (or "alternate") axis handling is the same as in TxQBSP (which only has one variant) and also the same as in the original qbsp from iD.
Why are there repeated claims that this "old" axis handling is invalid for WorldCraft? It really doesn't make sense.
I've tested on several WorldCraft maps and they all get correct texture alignment only if I use the options above (with Tree/WQBSP). Using TxQBSP it's always right.
Another funny thing is when using YQBSP (Yahn Bernier's), there is yet another option "-alt45" which works completely opposite of the "-alternateaxis" option in WQBSP. I.e. running without this option seems to work great for WorldCraft maps. Confusing to say the least ...
It appears to me that I should consider removing the "-oldaxis" option from TreeQBSP and make it default instead. Would that be wise?
Triggering Lots Of Monsters
#436 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/26 22:03:36
If I trigger 12-15 monsters and have them "wake up" at the same time, will this cause choking or any other sort of problems for the engine?
Wake-up Call...
#437 posted by Kell [82.41.48.161] on 2003/08/26 22:50:42
afaik, from my own sp doodlings, if the number of monsters and the detail/r_speeds of the area in which they are encountered do not cause Quake to grind, scrape or choke then having them simultaneously alerted won't either.
Hello
#438 posted by glassman [81.128.194.175] on 2003/08/27 16:58:06
Hi everyone, I'm back from a trip abroad & getting back into mapping. Apologies to those who have not received replies to emails. In answer to the general thrust of most of them(ie where the fuck are my maps?) I am pleased to say that the castle map I showed screenies of over a year ago is very nearly finished :)
However, I am getting compiling problems, in particular tyrlite is refusing to run with the message: "Texture Axis Perpendicular to Face".
To fix this I need to select all brush faces containing a certain texture & reset the coordinates (the error seems to be caused by screwy stretch numbers). My problem at present is that when using Shift-A with the texture selected rather than select all the [i]faces[/i] with that texture GTKRadiant selects all the [i]brushes[/i] where one or more faces have the texture therefore selecting many faces with textures other than the one I am interested in. This doesn't sound too serious but I have over 6000 brushes and a good percentage of them seem to have this particular texture on one or more faces. Does anyone know a way of just selecting all the faces (rather than brushes) in this way? Can Worldcraft or a different version of GTK do this (I'm using 1.2.11)? Thanks.
Glassman
#439 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/27 17:32:18
W00t! Nice to hear from you, dude. I'm VERY glad you haven't dropped out completely, and I'm really looking forward to your map!
Because I don't know the exact details, I'm not sure that this will help. If you're using the same stretch numbers for all the surfaces, you could use find/replace in a text editor. Obviously, if you used a unique stretch value for each surface, this will be too much effort. But if you only used 5-10 numbers, then it will only take a few seconds to find/replace all the values.
Hopefully that made sense.
Find/replace
#440 posted by glassman [81.128.194.175] on 2003/08/27 17:44:14
The problem face may look something like this:
...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1001.99999 1.000000 0 0 0
Whereas almost all the others will have a stretch of 1.000000 but with many different coordinates/angles eg.
...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 -64 27 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0
I use editpad as a text editor & I'm not sure how I could do this as a find/replace. Is it possible using wildcards?
I wouldn't mind turning every instance of that texture into:
...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0
but how do I select all the variations in the first place?
Nice To Hear From You Glassman
#441 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2003/08/28 04:10:01
good luck sorting out the problems.
Thanks UWF & RPG
#442 posted by glassman [81.128.194.175] on 2003/08/28 06:28:32
& I've sorted this one for now using MS Word no less.
Yay!
#443 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/08/28 11:58:09
Yo Glassman
#444 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/08/28 15:34:36
glad to hear your back, good news indeed for Q1SP, its kinda died recently and we need a boost! :)
Thread Jumping
#445 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/08/28 19:01:16
I figured out how to turn 4 meshes into that bow shape pretty fast, but working with patch meshes is bringing it's own problems. For one thing, it's not casting shadows. The other problem is that in game there is a crack on the inside edge between the bottom mesh and the inside mesh, even though they're perfectly flush in editor. In fact, the bottom mesh is a clone of the top mesh, which is perfectly flush in game.
#446 posted by Vodka [195.242.19.18] on 2003/08/28 21:56:56
compile with -patchshadows
...
#447 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/09/03 04:46:43
not really a mapping help, but how the hell do i get a mod song to work with quake maps? does it requier a to get it all into a pak file and some quakeC stuff? is this really posible?? aliens are horny bastads?? aaa!!?
,,, ,
#448 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/09/03 04:47:57
sorry for the typos. im in a euphoria state right now. cant keep calm! YAY!
Bzzt
#449 posted by Fat Controller [203.98.50.22] on 2003/09/03 05:22:33
Unfortunately, only a few Quake engines can play mod files. For those, I believe you add a key called "mod" to the worldspawn entity (that thing where the map name goes.)
Nehahra seems to have its .mods in a subfolder called sound\mods, or something like that. Basically, check the engine documentation.
Unfortunately, QuakeC just can't do it. Sorry.
Um...
#450 posted by necros [172.141.107.136] on 2003/09/03 16:13:56
keep in mind nehara's mod playing capabilities have limits. they don't support a lot of the cool new impulse tracker stuff. i think it's closest resembles scream tracker mods... but i'm not sure. i only experimented with it for a short while and got annoyed and gave up.
Agh!!
#451 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/09/05 02:20:52
ah man. thats not good. i know nothing of coding or well, dont really wanna use a new engine or stuff. but anyway. thanks for the help. :)
me goes and cries happily ever after
Gtkradiant Spawnflag Check Boxes
#452 posted by glassman [81.128.146.179] on 2003/09/07 11:54:06
I maybe missing something obvious but the GTKRadiant entity popup box doesn't seem to have the check boxes for !hard, !normal and !easy (or boxes for ctf/dm/TA etc for that matter). How do I get these to show?
If I can't am I correct in thinking that I add 256, 512 & 1024 to the spawnflags for !easy, !normal, !hard respectively & add those figures together for combinations. Is it the same numbers for all entities?
Thanks
Yep.
#453 posted by necros [172.171.178.205] on 2003/09/07 12:19:50
when i map for quake in there, i wrote down all the numbers for each combination of skill levels in a grid so i can easily just look without having to calculate anything.
although, that's probably not feasible if you're going to have more than just four flags (e,m,h,DM) because there'd be so many combinations...
Glassman
#454 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/09/07 13:43:29
There's a version of GtkRadiant that supports Q1 (albeit badly). SmallPileofGibs also says that the entities.def has the skill setting checkboxes, so you may want to download it and rip the entities.def if nothing else.
http://spog.tshup.com/GtkRadiant-1...
Glassman
#455 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/09/07 14:39:21
I believe vanilla gtkradiant doesn't support flags that go so high. What I did was calculate all the common combinations of the flags, and then list that in all the relevant sections in the .def file. You have to add those manually to the other flags though.
Thanks Guys
#456 posted by glassman [81.128.146.179] on 2003/09/07 15:42:42
Necros..for this map that may well be the solution.
RPG..the entities.def (which btw ends up in your id1/scripts directory) does not work with vanilla gtkrad presumably because, as pushplay says, vanilla gtkrad does not support spawnflags higher than about 128.
However the new q1 version of gtkrad looks interesting. The skill settings work anyway :)
It creates maps in native q1 format so no more converting q2->q1 & the bsp options refer to hqbsp, hvis & hlight which I'm not familiar with. Textures I think go in id1/textures but I'm not sure if anything other than jpg & tga are supported at this stage. If anyone has any more info I'd be grateful.
Glassman
#457 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.9] on 2003/09/07 16:55:09
If you want more info on Q1 GtkR then you'll have to come onto irc.gamesnet.net #terrafusion (or irc.telefragged.com #qeradiant) and ask SmallPileofGibs. I haven't tried it yet so this is all just stuff I've heard people say.
My Sm48 Map
#458 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/09/07 17:08:51
Was made in the q1beta of gtkrad.
It works fine, its just that the editor needs to be able to load wad files, atm u have to type the name of the textxure onto the brush :/
Is The Functionality The Same?
#459 posted by necros [172.157.125.254] on 2003/09/07 17:24:37
does it work the same way (besides textures) that the regular gtkr does?
what do you mean by type the name of the texture onto the brush
Empty
#460 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/09/07 17:49:07
type the name of the texture onto the brush
Ewww. I'll stick to the texture extraction + map conversion method like I did in my sm48. The map sucked, but at least it had a good solid dome.
I Mean
#461 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/09/07 17:59:26
currently when you start a map from scratch you have to select the brush/face and bring up its properties, then in the texture box you have to type in the name of the texture you want that brush/face to use.
After you have done that the texture appears on the brush and in the texture window. So basicly you need to do this every time you add a new texture.
Ouch...
#462 posted by necros [172.200.129.96] on 2003/09/07 19:01:48
brutal.
Unreal 2 Textures Converter
#463 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.205] on 2003/09/08 00:09:20
any1 knows of unreal2 textures -> simple bitmap cconverter that handles multipy files
Nm
#464 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.205] on 2003/09/08 00:14:59
Found it. Pretty good explorer/converter that supports many games :
http://www.elberethzone.net/index....
AguirRe
#465 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.241] on 2003/09/16 16:11:12
treebsp doesn't like aligning textures right. Is there any way to avoid this problem?
Check Out The
#466 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.43] on 2003/09/16 17:00:47
previous posts in this thread (#429 and forward) and see if that helps. Otherwise I need more details (editor, compiler options etc).
You could also try my TxQBSP version, it's very similar to TreeQBSP in performance, capacity etc.
AguirRe
#467 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.203] on 2003/09/16 17:32:39
thanx, that's exactly my case.
I just use WC and compile without those options.
I just haven't seen those posts, cuz wasn't able to visit func for 2 months and then there were TOO many new posts to read them all.
Link
#468 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/09/19 18:08:50
i know its not really a mapping help, but i need help so i can do some mapping.
anyway. quiver!! the quake1 map editor... does anyone know where i can get a working link? the official site has it down. wrote the dude 2 weeks ago and nothing!! :(
agh. i wanna make maps using my macky. :)
Hurrah For Mac Quakers!
#469 posted by grahf [192.154.65.1] on 2003/09/21 17:00:43
Yes yes, I am using Quiver at this very moment.... I thought I was the only person on the planet who still did. ;0
Scott Kevill definitely does not give a rat's ass about Quiver anymore, I'm sure he does not have it. I have it of course, but no place to upload it to.
Also, If you have Mac OS X, it is possible to compile GTKRadiant, but that is not for the faint of heart (It runs as an X11 app using Apple's X11, XDarwin, and Fink). read the mailinglists on zerowing.idsoftware.com for more info on that.
Yay! Mac Rules!
#470 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/09/22 00:36:13
GTK radiant? agh. i dotn wanna learn a new editor. hehe. damn.
i ahve os x, but its 10.0.4 or something. the first version i think. hehe. damn. i hate apple for making us buy jaguar!! :)
hmm... if i give you the link to an account at briefcase.yahoo, would you upload it for me if its below 5mb? :) man. im desperate. i'd do anything!! (except gay stuff, thats just.... gay)
hehehe. damn.
Softer Shadows In Q1
#471 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.62] on 2003/09/26 08:05:30
If you've been annoyed with the jagged edges in some shadows in Q1, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.23 version available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
There are several new options for various speed/quality combinations.
AguirRe
#472 posted by Abyss [203.51.230.110] on 2003/09/26 09:14:39
Will you be adding support for coloured lighting/.lit files to your light prog at all ?
...
#473 posted by starbuck [137.222.30.31] on 2003/09/26 09:44:07
whoa aquirRe, you appear to the 'teh r4wk'... i can't wait to try out your light prog, especially the -extra4 you mentioned
Those Tools Sound Great
#474 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.203] on 2003/09/26 11:23:27
Thanks AguiRe.
Thanks Guys, I Hope
#475 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.242] on 2003/09/26 12:38:50
you won't be disappointed.
Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting.
I Wasn't Disappointed
#476 posted by starbuck [82.33.88.154] on 2003/09/26 15:03:34
it really made an improvement, i ended up with some very smooth edges, will carry on using this i think, it coped with the tyrlite parameters very well
Yes
#477 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/09/26 18:32:52
the new light util is very cool, just been playing with it, makes those shadows look so much nicer.
Recommended to any q1 mapper :)
AguirRe
#478 posted by Abyss [203.51.221.244] on 2003/09/26 19:05:11
Firstly, "Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting." :(
Secondly, Is there any problems with say compiling with tyrlite, for coloured lighting/generating the .lit file, then compiling using your light prog for the new features -extra4, -soft etc?
I have tried it on a small test map, all seems to be fine, and in the end I get my coloured lighting.
Hmm ...
#479 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.161] on 2003/09/26 19:26:59
As long as TyrLite doesn't change the entity contents in a way that information is lost it should work fine, I think. Normally it doesn't.
TyrLite will then first generate both the .lit file and the normal light data lump in the bsp, then my Light would make a 2nd pass generating another light data lump in the bsp replacing the previous one.
It seems like a good idea, Abyss!
The Down Side, Of Course
#480 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/09/26 20:28:20
is lighting a map twice. and if the lighting process takes a few hours or more... *shrug*
Time, I Am Not Short Of
#481 posted by Abyss [203.51.221.244] on 2003/09/26 21:13:17
Talent, however, is another matter
#482 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.2] on 2003/09/26 21:44:46
.lit files are not light data, but the offset.
If you change the lightmaps in a bsp, you end in the colored hell.
aguirRe : great features. Been wanting fast and more sunlight for all these years
havent found in readme, does it support negative lights (antilights)
No Antilights
#483 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.9] on 2003/09/27 05:08:42
in this version, maybe later.
If you like the new soft shadows, try them together with the enhanced sunlight ("-sunlight2"). It benefits especially since the sun shadows are so clearly defined and therefore normally suffers from aliasing (the jagged edges).
Light Prog
#484 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/09/27 05:46:34
The people demand screenshots that show off l33t enw features.
Better Than Screenshots
#485 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.252] on 2003/09/27 08:33:34
Get the Light 1.23 version, grab any Q1 bsp that has outdoor areas and run the following command in a console window :
light -fast -soft -extra4 -nolight -light 30 -sunlight 250 -sunmangle 45,-60 -sunlight2 60 bspname
where "bspname" is the name of the map.
Then load up the produced bsp in a Q1 engine and check out how the ligthing looks in the outdoor areas (indoors will be rather dark since all light entities are disabled).
You can tweak the parameters above for different effects.
Have Not Tried It Yet, But....
#486 posted by Quaketree [208.59.199.233] on 2003/09/27 09:02:11
This appears to be some cool stuff. Outdoor areas that seem to have a (somewhat?) simulated radiosity effect without the complication (or time apparently) of actually doing any radiocity calculations). AND even better yet, you can use a worldspawn light ent to cover the inside bits while leting the 2 sunlight sources deal with the outside shadow fade off.
/Spending tomorrow playing around with this
AguirRe
#487 posted by Vondur [213.247.187.250] on 2003/09/28 11:33:21
you rock!
i'm using your utils to finish my qsp now :)
lots of nice features and tyrlite ents support makes it uber great!
Thanks Again For
#488 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.227] on 2003/09/28 17:03:28
the accolades, partial credit goes to Tyrann for the TyrLite features that I've included.
I'm eager to see what you guys can come up with using these tools. Just let me know if you have any problems or if there's something unclear in the readmes (they're a bit spartan).
Running the tools without parameters prints out helpful info and default values etc. This info is also logged to file if your console window is too small.
Please also note the ability in Light to quickly test various options from the command line without having to rebuild the map.
Finally when satisfied, put these keys/values (even range/dist) into worldspawn for future reference.
Lighting... Quake... & Resolution
#489 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2003/09/29 03:35:26
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect. What is the typical resolution set by players around here? 800x640? Higher?
1600x1200
#490 posted by Abyss [203.51.230.125] on 2003/09/29 04:29:45
Is what I use
Distrans:
#491 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.132] on 2003/09/29 04:37:21
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect.
Really? What do you mean? Resolution when playing? Compiling? What is "the lighting effect?"
Hmmm...
#492 posted by distrans [203.36.15.125] on 2003/09/30 01:07:47
I wasn't very clear was I.
Say I'm using Tyr-quake in full windowed mode at a resolution of 320x200. I set up the brightness and gamma so the original quake skill and episode select foyers look 1337. Now, I pull down the console and load map Orkan and when I enter the map I can't see two virtual feet in front of me. Next, I up the resolution to 1024x768 and suddenly Orkan looks cool in all it's atmospheric glory. There's now enough light to see gross and fine architecture, and texture detailing is now apparent (where before it all just looked like various shades of black). It seems that the higher the resolution, the more effect light entities have (I know this is the wrong way to put it but I also hope you know what I mean =) at least for software and winquake.
The problem then, involves the four levels I'm currently working on. If I set the lighting up so that it looks good at 320x200, it becomes "flooded" with light at 1024x768 (bland stuff). So I reason that if I can discover what is the most commonly used resolution for play, I won't go too far wrong with the lighting if I use that as the benchmark resolution for testing light placement and effect on a given level.
That's why I thought the question was relevant to the mapping help thread.
AguirRe
#493 posted by Vondur [213.247.187.250] on 2003/09/30 01:21:59
is it possible to make lavalight?
i mean the light that generates by lava surface as it generates by sky, but with delay.
Distrans
#494 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2003/09/30 02:23:38
It shouldn't make a diffence.
If "full windowed mode" is not fullscreen mode, then desktop background colour can affect your perception of the brightness. Otherwise... that sounds wierd.
Distrans:
#495 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.132] on 2003/09/30 02:47:40
what tyrann said.
Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same. Windowed with a bright wallpaper, it looks too dark.
Oh...
#496 posted by distrans [203.36.15.125] on 2003/09/30 03:36:18
Thanx,
It shouldn't make a diffence.
It does on my sys.
Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same.
Not on my sys.
...and that's probably the problem, my clapped out sys.
Now, if I hadn't just put that new bass on lay-by...
Wait...
#497 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.132] on 2003/09/30 05:06:50
here's a thought: take screenshots at different resolutions. Carefully examine the screenshots, especaially by zooming in. See if you still notice a difference.
Or if you don't trust that, zip them up and mail them to someone else.
Vondur
#498 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.40] on 2003/09/30 06:20:48
I guess lava light should be possible using a similar technique, but I doubt the extra coding and processing time would be worth the effect.
Lava is relatively scarce in maps (I'm not so fond of it either) and the lava light would be rather local and diffuse. That makes it very different from sunlight which is more difficult to simulate with point lights.
Hrimfaxi actually had the same suggestion a while ago. He also wanted the lava light to be slowly pulsating.
Re: Lava Light
#499 posted by Fat Controller [203.98.50.21] on 2003/09/30 06:55:03
Sounds like surface-based radiosity lighting...
...
#500 posted by starbuck [82.33.88.121] on 2003/09/30 06:59:59
but that wouldnt work with these tools unfortunately
Well
#501 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2003/09/30 07:06:32
ok, will put light entities all over the lavapool then ;)
Light 1.23
#502 posted by glassman [217.154.195.196] on 2003/09/30 07:51:08
I tried the new light utility on a map which was made originally using tyrlite. I found that all the point lights are too bright but the outdoor sun areas are too dark.
Do you know if the scaling of 'light', 'wait', 'delay' & '_sunlight' is different to tyrlite?
Glassman
#503 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2003/09/30 08:03:00
i didn't notice any change in light after switching from tyrlite to bengt's light
Hmm..
#504 posted by glassman [217.154.195.196] on 2003/09/30 08:30:20
Thats strange. Do you use wait and/or delay on your lights?
I notice that aguirRe gives an example above for _sunlight 250. That would be like Marrakech at midday in Tyrlite. I'm not sure if thats the intention or the scaling is different.
Glassman
#505 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.225] on 2003/09/30 10:39:26
The scaling is supposed to be the same for all individual light entities AFAIK. However, I have default a slightly different behaviour for global light levels (min/max/sunlight) regarding the "-range" option. They're default not affected by the "-range" option while in TyrLite they are affected.
In version 1.23 I added a "-globrange" option to make it easier to switch between the tools if you prefer this behaviour.
All this is of course only relevant if you actually are using the "-range" option. Are you?
Otherwise I don't really know what's up. I haven't noticed any obvious difference in light intensity between the tools and I've run a lot of maps through them.
If you like, you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) and I'll take a look at it.
AguirRe
#506 posted by glassman [217.154.195.196] on 2003/09/30 10:51:02
Thanks aguiRe. I haven't used -range.
I'll try it one more time tonight & then send it to you if its still the same. The only thing I can think of atm is that I relit an existing bsp with v1.23 rather than doing a new complete compile but that shouldn't make a difference should it?
That Shouldn't Make
#507 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.132] on 2003/09/30 12:27:16
a difference AFAIK, that is exactly what I've done with many maps. Unless of course you've somehow manipulated the entity data after (or during) the TyrLite run.
I think there is a "-compress" option in TyrLite that removes light information after usage in order to shrink the entity data size.
Can you run TyrLite once again on the same bsp and get the same result as before (copy the bsp somewhere else beforehand)?
I've Used
#508 posted by Hrimfaxi [80.198.33.36] on 2003/09/30 12:39:28
AguirRe's light tool for about a month and to me there's no difference from Tyrlite, when using delay, wait etc.! But the sunlight/sunlight2 is so much better, not to mention the new soft shadows.
Erm
#509 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/09/30 14:51:12
aguiRe, you e-mailed me a while ago about testing your light proggie, didn't you? I never tested it. Sorry dude. :(
No Problem
#510 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.230] on 2003/09/30 15:08:48
I thought my email server swallowed a couple of replies - it's acting strangely sometimes ...
I hope there are no serious bugs, if not Glassman has found something.
-compress
#511 posted by glassman [81.128.152.65] on 2003/09/30 15:47:58
Yes, I do use -compress in tyrlite so that probably caused it. /me is a dunce.
I'm running a fresh compile now with v1.23 -fast -soft -extra4 so I'll let you know the outcome as soon as its finished.
AguirRe
#512 posted by glassman [81.128.152.65] on 2003/09/30 16:14:53
Worked fine this time & looks very nice :) Sorry for the confusion.
Great
#513 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.139] on 2003/09/30 16:50:00
I don't think you'll need the compress option anymore since the tools have pretty high capacity now.
Vis and light data can be up to 4MB each, entity data up to 1MB and the rest have practically no limits (in the tools that is, engines might object).
Vondur
#514 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.202] on 2003/10/01 00:22:23
You can use dulight for surface lights.
It does no bounced light tho, but combines surface lights with the tyrlite
Thanks
#515 posted by Vondur [213.247.187.250] on 2003/10/01 01:28:52
but it's too late :) i put lite ents everywhere :)
Q1bsp Error
#516 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/10/05 20:53:38
Found some strange errors on my Binair Space Partitions lateley.
After starting the game - failure
Error:ED_Alloc:no free edicts
Should I have used too many entities?
Gah!
#517 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/05 22:08:48
There's never an edict around when you need one.
I Pardon, Beg You?
#518 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/10/06 16:04:04
Give me another answer, & I forget the question.
Madfox
#519 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/06 17:20:33
I'm an asshole, ignore me.
Madfox
#520 posted by glassman [81.128.212.98] on 2003/10/06 17:45:34
You have probably exceeded the edicts limit which is 600 in theory but you can only have about 580 or so before you get this error.
Edicts are all the stuff in the level..brush models, ammo, monsters, sounds etc but not lights. Take some out & then, when you can load the map type 'edictcount' at the console & it will tell you how many you have.
Some entities use up lots of edicts like air_bubbles which strangely uses about 10.
If you type 'edicts' at the console you will get a very long list of all of them with their properties.
On Edicts...
#521 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/06 17:56:50
quake usually needs about 40 to 60 free edicts for use with nails, rockets, grenades plus monster's weapons (voreballs, scrag shots, etc)
you'd be best keeping the edicts below even 580, like 550 to be safe, because at 580, the player might just get a crash.
And Remember...
#522 posted by Tyrann [203.34.35.230] on 2003/10/06 20:48:00
...lights with targetnames count as edicts.
Also...
#523 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.75] on 2003/10/06 22:11:42
i believe func_illusionaries do not count.
Greatly !
#524 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/10/06 22:26:32
Thanks for the reply.
I already had the feeling I crossed a limit, by expanding the levels for my convertion.
It would spoil some hard work, crashing on the fourth or fifth level, and still 20 to go.
Gives a good feeling, playing the good old Quake again!
...
#525 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/07 17:53:51
crashing on the fourth or fifth level
um... maybe i just misunderstood, but just to be safe:
the six hundred edicts is per level...
A Count Off
#526 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/10/07 18:19:06
Well, let's have a try than...
Just an ordinairy level shows:
edictcount
num_edicts : 373
active : 373
vieuw : 253
touch : 326
step : 109
I know I can count to three, as well as to 600.
But does this mean 373, or the whole lot?
Edicts:
#527 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/07 20:00:59
the one you want to look at is active or num_edicts.
the others... i don't really know what they are.
Speedy
#528 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.23] on 2003/10/09 12:52:54
I noticed your sm31_speedy map and I was wondering what light tool (version and especially parameters if you recall that) you used to build that?
AguirRe
#529 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.27] on 2003/10/09 23:57:19
question is: have you seen the map (original sm31, or some later version, or just screenshots ?)
its tyrlite and delay 2 lights
I guess you could decompile it and look yourself :)
#492 Posted By Distrans
#530 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.27] on 2003/10/10 00:13:43
Orkan is a bit hard to see, since the textures are very dark and contrast themselves.
Sm31_speedy
#531 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.139] on 2003/10/10 03:14:34
I have the original sm31_pack (I think), are there more than one?
I've tried to re-light that bsp with TyrLite and my Light but I can't seem to get it like it was originally. AFAIK, you can't get this information from decompilation, it's all in the entity data plus invisible command line options.
Thanks, I'll try the -delay 2 and see how that goes.
It Didn't Work,
#532 posted by aguirRe [62.127.62.167] on 2003/10/10 06:00:37
the lighting is way darker than the original. Also, I get an error about missing models which makes TyrLite abort. In my Light I've changed those into warnings but the lighting is still too dark using -dist 2.
What gives? Have you somehow manipulated the entity data after using TyrLite (e.g. with its "-compress" option)?
Wait a minute, I just noticed that you wrote "delay 2" and I mistakenly interpreted that as "-dist 2". What do you mean, can the delay be controlled from the command line? Isn't that just a key for each light entity?
Delay...
#533 posted by xen [82.32.34.171] on 2003/10/10 11:40:33
..is set to each light entity individually, like brightness (only not essential). In tyrlite it effects the attenuation, and a value of 2 sets the falloff to inverse distance^2 for the light entity it's assigned to
#534 posted by Vodka [195.242.18.163] on 2003/10/10 21:07:42
about dealy xen said it all..
probably it was lit with old tyrelight with -nominlimit option, which actually made light 2x brighter
I can give you the .map if you want
Why do you care anyway ?
Thanks For The
#535 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.178] on 2003/10/11 05:41:36
info and yes, I'd like the zipped map if possible.
The reason why I care is partly that I find the map fun to play, but more important is that I'm trying to learn more about how different maps are lit and how the "-range" and "-dist" parameters affect lighting in general.
And this map consistently resisted in revealing how it was actually lit up originally. Most maps are easy to find the right combination of parameters (if any at all).
Have you any idea why the model error occurs when trying to re-light the bsp?
Speedy, You Were Right
#536 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.106] on 2003/10/11 13:51:57
about using TyrLite 0.8 with the "-nominlimit" bug. When retrying with that version and that option I immediately hit the spot with the same light distribution pattern.
Xen also reported on QMap having this problem with his xnq1002 map.
Old bugs die hard ... and there's still no explanation of the missing brush models.
I've Just Had The Strangest Crash...
#537 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/11 23:21:01
using fitzquake075.
testing out a map. map title shows, then:
got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath
*crash* to desktop.
GLquake just crashes.
(software iterations load the map fine though)
looked for missing shalraths (vores) didn't find any.
since the only engine to actually tell me anything before crashing is fitzquake, hopefully metl might know something about it?
Necros:
#538 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.75] on 2003/10/12 01:41:53
is fitzquake also the only engine that crashes?
Oops..
#539 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.75] on 2003/10/12 01:42:31
i need to read more carefully.
better question: does this happen consistently?
It Happens Only On This Map.
#540 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/12 11:57:15
i'm looking into all the vores on the map, but i don't really see anything out of the ordinary with them.
And.
#541 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/12 11:58:22
it happens ALL the time. like i said, software works, but it seems all gl engines crash.
(i only tested with fq, glquake and tq) but it screws up the mouse acceleration and i stopped testing gl engines because it was pissing me off.
Necros:
#542 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.75] on 2003/10/12 15:40:13
okay, does it happen when the map loads, or during gameplay?
Care to send me the bsp?
It Happens:
#543 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/10/12 18:01:46
when i lauched the map from the command like with +mapname, the game loads fine, and almost right after the map's title is printed on the console, i get got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath then the game seems to continue loading for a few more seconds then crashes to the desktop.
i'll email you the current compile.
Something Interesting...
#544 posted by necros [24.43.133.84] on 2003/10/12 22:55:20
Metl, you mentioned in your email that winquake crashes as well.
i used tronyn's winquake and it didn't crash (which is why i assumed that regular winquake would work).
so tronyn, what makes your engine so special? :)
You Probably Mean Tyranns' Winquake
#545 posted by glassman [81.128.206.101] on 2003/10/13 01:39:14
& one difference is that the max edict count is increased.
Er, Yeah.
#546 posted by necros [24.43.133.84] on 2003/10/13 13:15:48
sorry Tronyn.
working on the same project + having similar names = bad for necros' memory
Latest GTKRadiant 1.3.12
#547 posted by Abyss [203.51.235.132] on 2003/10/17 20:46:14
Has anyone got this to work for Quake editing?
I Don't Have It.
#548 posted by necros [63.139.3.74] on 2003/10/17 22:09:55
but you make it sound like it's more difficult in this version. i was planning to get it a little later, so info would be appreciated...
Well
#549 posted by Abyss [203.51.235.135] on 2003/10/18 00:56:32
I got it working, long story, but it will basically only run once on my machine, the next time I go to start it, it will crash with a windows error "GTKRadiant exe has caused an error.......................and will have to close bla bla bla" you know the one. And basically the only way I can run it again is by clearing the registry when the option is there, but then the second time I start it, its the same thing (Groundhog Day) It happens whether or not I load it for Quake, Quake II or Quake III, so I guess that rules out it being a prob just with trying to edit for Quake. I also tried uninstalling my previous version of GTK, but that didn't help any. So after many installs/uninstalls, I decided to go back to the previous version of GTK. Probably something on my machine it doesn't like, Oh well, I'll try again next release.
Give it a go, you may have better luck
It Works Fine On This Machine...
#550 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/18 09:56:07
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector.
Grah
#551 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/10/18 22:52:28
i'd been scrolling up and down on this page and cant find it, so yeah..
...where can i find some updated qbsp3, qvis3 and qrad3 files for quake2?
thats it.
Here Nakasuhito
#552 posted by Miniwood [82.35.127.169] on 2003/10/19 00:50:33
These are the ones I use
http://home.insightbb.com/~gryndeh...
http://www.planetquake.com/arghrad...
Yay
#553 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/10/19 01:06:27
thanks dude. i'd kiss you, but i think i have aids
Lucky For Me Uh?
#554 posted by Miniwood [82.35.127.169] on 2003/10/19 01:34:06
nt
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do
#555 posted by nakasuhito [12.255.12.18] on 2003/10/19 03:04:55
yeah... you lucky mathafaka :)
anyway. thanks again for the link. hehe. me is happy.
Bah
#556 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 16:41:01
ok, q3 mapping for people who are unfamiliar with id's tech advances since the days of q1?
do and don't, baby's first vertical atrium of death, gtkradiant for complete fuckwits, that sort of thing...
I'm asking here because I don't wanna wade through the muck searching for the juicy stuff,hook me up.
#557 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 16:43:19
I fight int'l terrorism by not spacing my sentences. Apparently.
Wrath
#558 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/19 17:05:34
All I can say is: Good luck. I've been mapping for Q1 using QERadiant, so I have a slight advantage, but when I recently started Q3 mapping again I couldn't find anything useful, and no one wanted to help me.
Rpg
#559 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 17:24:50
people suck, mappers doubly so.
Yes
#560 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/19 17:39:35
Agreed. But don't Maj I said that, mmkay?
Err
#561 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/19 17:40:16
+Maj
bleh. As you said, mappers suck doubly so.
My That Was Horrible
#562 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/19 17:40:43
-Maj +tell
Triple suckage?
Rpg
#563 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 17:47:46
you suck at the intarweb
On A Totally Unrelated Note
#564 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 17:59:35
suppose you are a programmer. suppose you wake up screaming in the middle of the night, sheats soaking with cold sweat. suppose you walk out into the kitchen, all shivering. suppose you quickly hop back into your bedrom to put some pajama bottoms on, there's a whole bunch of level monkeys watching you via an internet forum for crying out loud, save the children!
suppose you stand there in the dark, with just one singular thought running through your head.
"I have to make the best level editor known to man, if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed."
Any takers? No?
Blast!
#565 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/19 18:00:05
and by make, I mean code.
Wrath
#566 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/20 01:44:33
The two most difficult things are: how do you best represent what is essentially a 3D environment in two dimensions, and then how do you modify a 3D environment with a 2D interface? Radiant does the best job of it so far, but I don't believe for a second that we can't do better.
I would be interested in seeing some interface that does away with the keybaord entirely and uses two mice at once. Have the 3D view fill the screen and put it all in radial context menus.
In A Bit More Detail
#567 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/20 01:57:01
Suppose you associated the right mouse with X/Y movement and the left mouse with Z. The camera stays centered on a point in space you move around. When you hold down the right mouse middle button the right mouse allows you to rotate the camera around the point and the left mouse lets you determine how close to that point the camera is. The left mouse right button could open a context menu letting you set things like grid size and sensitivity. The right mouse right button would cover things like setting textures and properties. One of the mouse wheels would have to cover rotating through which brush you're selecting when the point in space intersects more than one. I imagine both left buttons would be used for creating and manipulating brushes.
That's just off the top of my head. There would no doubt be necessary features I've left off.
Yes Please!
#568 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2003/10/20 02:54:11
Necros
#569 posted by Abyss [203.51.194.21] on 2003/10/20 04:42:19
I have the new version of GTK working fine with Quake, and have found out what I beleive to be causing the problems I have been having with that version of GTK. Basically when GTK 1.3.12 starts up the entity browser has 2 of the 3 main windows collapsed/closed (1 a list of the entities, the next a description plus the keys etc, and the next the values that you entered etc) if I adjust it by slidding down the separator bars so as I can see the other 2, and shut GTK down with the entity browser like that, the next time I start it it will crash, and I will have to reset the registry, then set up my preferences again. But if before I shut down GTK, I put the separator bars back how they were, there is no problem. At least I know how to avoid it now.
R.P.G
#570 posted by Abyss [203.51.194.21] on 2003/10/20 05:39:50
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector.
Care to expand? I haven't noticed anything yet.
M33p
#571 posted by Maj [217.205.117.52] on 2003/10/20 06:49:53
if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed.
Congratulations, you've just made Worldcraft.
PS: RPG, you fool, I love you.
Maj
#572 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/20 07:45:50
congratulations, you have just jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Hmm
#573 posted by nonentity [144.32.128.133] on 2003/10/20 08:24:03
wrath; http://www.claudec.com/the_tutoria...
W00t
#574 posted by Maj [217.205.117.52] on 2003/10/20 09:36:26
I win.
Maj
#575 posted by wrath [217.208.210.55] on 2003/10/20 10:58:59
if by win, you mean something else entirely - then maybe.
Abyss
#576 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/20 11:00:46
When I use the clipping tool, sometimes the 3D view doesn't display which part of the brush it's going to keep after the clipping operation is complete. I have to update the 3D view somehow (like move the camera) and then it will display it.
Also, I used to be able to copy and paste a texture name into the surface inspector window and change a surface's texture that way. Now I can paste it, but when I click "apply" it just reverts back to the old texture name. This is frustrating, because sometimes I spend a lot of time scaling, rotating, and shifting a texture to make it look right, but then I want to try a different texture to see how it looks.
Gtkradiant Again
#577 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/20 14:59:05
so, it's supposed to be really, really sluggish - right? I'm not on a monster system or anything, but with a ti500 and 640 mb ram, it shouldn't go completely aquanox on me just because I have one fucking brush out there. panning and moving around in the 3d viewport is right up there with pounding nails through my cock.
Sluggish ??
#578 posted by Abyss [203.51.197.136] on 2003/10/20 16:14:21
No, can't say I've experienced that, and thankfully, nor have I experienced your eloquent description of what moving around in the 3D veiwport is like :)
Your Fired !!
R.P.G
#579 posted by Abyss [203.51.197.136] on 2003/10/20 16:15:49
Oh i see, I haven't had that clipping prob. Don't beleive I have ever done that with the surface inspector, so I would't come across that.
Thanks
Sluggish Pt2
#580 posted by Abyss [203.51.231.114] on 2003/10/20 16:28:50
You are of course right clicking your mouse in the 3D view, so as you can use 'mouse look' type thingy? (you will get a crosshair in view)It can give a 'sluggish' type effect if you just use your arrow keys to move around there without first right clicking.
Abyss
#581 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/20 16:32:19
I'm right clicking, yeah.
Oh
#582 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/20 16:34:52
also, I'm the head of human resources here, I say who's fired and who's not. Comprende?
O Rly?
#583 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.213] on 2003/10/20 17:50:48
Scampie
#584 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/20 18:03:33
you got a problem son? take it up with mr. pink slip.
two words for you, government cheese!
Radiant Was Sluggish For Me
#585 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/10/20 18:30:41
before I spent my last cash to upgrade from a tnt to a geforce!
maybe it's just allergic to people pressing the wrong keys that have been inprinted in their brain from playing around with an ogier too much.
Cyb
#586 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/20 18:35:25
could be. or to people fucking tail pipes.
#587 posted by Vodka [195.242.17.17] on 2003/10/21 00:38:25
To make a good map ed, just let it export 3d max scenes. All in-house tool should have is convinient entity editor and visual scripting
Wrath
#588 posted by Maj [217.205.117.52] on 2003/10/21 06:19:41
I vaguely remember Radiant having a little OpenGL info in the about box. Check it's not using MS or SGI (i.e. software) OpenGL.
Aside: Since when did Radiant need a 34-fucking-meg installer!
Maj
#589 posted by wrath [217.208.211.205] on 2003/10/21 07:44:17
nope, that's not it.
re: Aside.
maybe its got spyware?
Bleh
#590 posted by Maj [217.205.117.52] on 2003/10/21 12:00:25
Can't even get it running here. Bombs out with various gl errors. SPoG hates me :[
I S4wk
#591 posted by Maj [217.205.117.52] on 2003/10/21 12:12:49
For some bizarre reason my desktop was set to 16bpp. 32bpp fixes it.
It turns out that if you take the error message - radiant.x86:28928): GtkGLExt-CRITICAL **: file gtkglwidget.c: line 225 (gtk_widget_set_gl_capability): assertion `GDK_IS_GL_CONFIG (glconfig)' failed - and translate it into greek, then latvian, then spanish, it becomes GtkGLExt el molto bello you're in 16bpp you spack GDK_EL_LA_GL_CONFIG
Compilers & A Texture Question
#592 posted by FaTbOy! [68.54.235.15] on 2003/10/21 13:41:25
Just curious if anyone has released newer versions of the standard argh serise of compilers for q1+2 or something completely different?
Also I am trying to convert a modified texture for q1 (its a .bmp) into the .mip format. Any help here would be appreciated. (I have mipdip, but it doesnt seem to support the conversion)
FaTbOy!
#593 posted by nonentity [144.32.128.133] on 2003/10/21 15:19:47
Try TexMex; http://www.planetquake.com/texmex/
FaTbOy!
#594 posted by Miniwood [82.35.127.169] on 2003/10/21 15:39:57
...or Wally.
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/
Wally?
#595 posted by FaTbOy! [68.54.235.15] on 2003/10/21 16:33:06
I didnt think wally worked for q1 textures.
Yeah It Does
#596 posted by starbuck [82.33.88.105] on 2003/10/21 16:48:53
it does a pretty good job, but i'd recommend TexMex over it for what you want to do
Groovy!
#597 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.156.207] on 2003/10/21 20:08:00
I am downlaoding it now thanks for the advice!
Compilers...
#598 posted by necros [63.139.3.74] on 2003/10/21 21:34:57
good compilers are here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Thanks Necros...btw
#599 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.156.207] on 2003/10/21 21:45:48
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.
Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also?
Thanks Necros...btw
#600 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.156.207] on 2003/10/21 21:56:04
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.
Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also?
Spawning Health Or Ammo In Q1 Maps
#601 posted by Scragbait [65.93.172.166] on 2003/10/21 23:00:55
I wish to restock players as they fight by dropping in supplies as needed. Do I have to build special hidden structures with gates to drop stuff in (using appropriate triggers) or is there a more elegant way?
Scraggy
#602 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.243] on 2003/10/22 00:52:56
In normal Q1, no. With QuakeC, there's Ritual's func_spawn entity.
Hey Scraggy...
#603 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2003/10/22 01:33:26
If that's for hhouse... bad luck, but if it's for the larger project, I'd be up for including that bit of code in the bundle... what do you think?
Func_spawn Entity
#604 posted by Scragbait [65.92.15.242] on 2003/10/22 18:00:49
If this code can be put in the halloween bundle, that would be great but time is really tight. I'll do some mechanical things for the time being but I would prefer the elegance of straight spawning in. I would need to know the syntax of func_spawn. I would use counters adding up monster deaths to trigger fresh supplies.
J
#605 posted by necros [63.139.3.74] on 2003/10/22 19:53:26
/*QUAKED func_spawn (0 .5 .8) (-32 -32 -24) (32 32 64) big/ambush megahealth
This will spawn a thing upon being used. The thing that
is spawned depends upon the value of "spawnfunction".
"spawnclassname" should contain the same value as "spawnfunction".
If "spawnfunction" is unspecified a random monster is chosen.
The angles, target and all flags are passed on
Think of it like setting up a normal entity.
"spawnsilent" set this to 1 if you want a silent spawn.
"spawnmulti" set this to 1 if you want this spawn to be reoccuring.
*/
FaTbOy!
#606 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.52] on 2003/10/23 12:50:08
All the tools at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k are usable with any Q1 editor, specifically WC1.6. With the ConvMap tool, you can also convert from Q2 format into Q1, which can be useful when editing in a newer, non-Q1 editor (e.g. GtkRadiant).
The mentioning of QuArK is only to hint that the tools can handle float/ETP maps as well as standard Q1 maps.
Q3, Map Editors
#607 posted by wrath [217.208.211.91] on 2003/10/23 19:17:42
are there any other ones currently in development? or are humanity bound to forever toiling in the *radiant-muck, like so many jews in Egypt?
Wrath
#608 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/23 19:41:52
I believe that QuArK and Quest both support Q3.
There's also edit.com.
GTK Rules !!
#609 posted by Abyss [203.51.205.166] on 2003/10/23 20:01:23
Sorry to hear you haven't had a good time of it, and resolved your probs :(
It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools ;)
In my case ... it's a pathetic tradesman who can't use is tools :(
Wrath
#610 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/23 22:31:46
Get to work on my editor wench!
Oh Yeah
#611 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/23 22:33:35
It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools is a terrible expression. By that logic I would be wrong to blame a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood.
Oh No
#612 posted by Abyss [203.51.205.166] on 2003/10/23 22:44:01
Tools, to any rational, person would refer to something within the realm of sanity, to do with the job at hand, ie, not a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood.
Thanks AguiRe
#613 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.152.159] on 2003/10/24 00:47:54
After perusing peekaboom's site and reading some of the reveiws on PQ, I figured I had better get newer compilers than whats on the forge. I remember one of the reveiws saying the author had implemented tex lighting ala q2 style. Is that possible in Bengt's tool? I read over the readme but found nothing obvious stating such support. Id really like to be able to use that.
In Case You Are Unaware
#614 posted by Abyss [203.51.205.166] on 2003/10/24 00:53:20
AguirRe is Bengt, so you are asking the right person.
Hehe..didnt Know!
#615 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.152.159] on 2003/10/24 01:17:00
Least I know he knows what hes saying.
One other thing before bedtime...there was a mapper that did a bunch of "space" themed maps for q1. You know the ones with all the platforms in the void. What was his name? I tried to find the guy on PQ but Ill be damned if I can now. Want to do a goole for his homepage/any maps...I really like that style.
Thanks and peace!
Abyss
#616 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/24 02:13:09
Well what about a dull chisel? What qualifier can go in front of tools which doesn't make the sentence self-contradictory?
The point I'm trying to make here is that you would obviously be right to blame crappy tools. You would only blame the tools for being crappy in one way or another to being with. You could modify the saying into: it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else.
From The Sublime To The Rediculous
#617 posted by Abyss [203.51.205.166] on 2003/10/24 03:47:38
Theres another old saying you can pick away at if you like, lol
Incase you couldn't tell, it was a joke
it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else.
WhereTF did that come from, I never said it, nor meant it. Get over yourself
pfft........................
Fatboy
#618 posted by nonentity [144.32.128.132] on 2003/10/24 06:05:23
I presume you mean the coagula maps by ELEK;
http://www.planetquake.com/tertiar...
(Although all the links on that site are buggered I'm afraid)
Abyss
#619 posted by wrath [217.208.211.91] on 2003/10/24 07:40:45
"it's a bad craftsman blahblahgualgh"
there's another saying; radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit.
look, no smiley.
pushplay;
if I could but write the code that makes these deviled computers go bing. oh, how I would.
In all seriousness, I'm gonna go over my old notes from work and try and put together some kind of feature-list/mission description. something that would be practically possible from first build to first public release.
just for the fuck of it.
Look
#620 posted by wrath [217.208.211.91] on 2003/10/24 07:41:14
bad grammar.
No Wasnt Coagula
#621 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.153.183] on 2003/10/24 09:18:15
These were DM only maps similar to the ones we see in q3a so much.I think I have one from the author on my HD. I just havent had time to go through all 178 of them to figure out which one it is!
Wrath
#622 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/10/24 09:25:46
bah spend more time with it and stop whining or I'll destroy all exhaust pipes in the world!
FaTbOy
#623 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/10/24 11:20:58
I know there was a guy who made a few Q3A-> Q1 maps, including one of q3dm17. It's framerate sucked mightily though.
I made a Q1 space map called Void Runner, with slightly lower ( though still extortionate ) r_speeds.
Cyb
#624 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/24 12:00:12
that's it. you're on the list.
.
#625 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/24 12:30:24
Wrath: I look forward to reading it.
Abyss: I just hate it when sayings are taken as true just because they're sayings. I also hate it when mysticism is taken as true by virtue of being old.
FaTbOy!
#626 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.126] on 2003/10/24 12:48:00
I'm not sure what you mean by Q2 style lighting, but there is no surface lighting in my Light tool. Only some options that hopefully make it easier, faster and more fun to light a map.
And in the end maybe also make a better-looking, more realistic map. Try it and see if you like it ...
Wrath
#627 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.140] on 2003/10/24 17:20:27
Haven't you been reading ?
Shouldn't that be
In my opinion radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit ;) Look, smiley
THE END
Arguire
#628 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/10/24 18:08:41
Could you plz plz plz *I love you plz* add colored light (.lit) support to your awesome light tool? I know I can generate a .lit and then recompile with your tool but that sucks hard, and the colored lights wont be 4x4 oversampled (??).
Remember what matters most : I LOVE U!!!
I Second That Motion
#629 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.140] on 2003/10/24 18:34:16
And double the amount of plz's, hmm, I can't say I love you though, how about 'strongly like'
Abyss
#630 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/24 20:41:50
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference. What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this that we always have to soften up our mental carpet-bombings with a IMO and end it with a got vordamnte smiley?!
This continued pussy-fication (thank you carlin) is a pet peeve of mine. No, worse, it's a fucking atrocity - on which mankind should collectively unleash their bile.
Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung.
You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me. On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out? Self-mutilation via dull spoon? Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even?
In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk.
Also, cranky.
!!!
#631 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/24 21:03:46
I demand that a 'n' be added to that 'a' in front of 'IMO'! Or else the terrorists will surely emerge victorious from whatever fight we're currently engaging in.
Also, more drink, and a pony. And the moon - while you're at it.
Wrath
#632 posted by Abyss [203.51.236.214] on 2003/10/24 21:09:46
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference.
I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject.
----------------------------------...
What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this
The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man.
----------------------------------...
Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung
That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions.
----------------------------------...
You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me
Oh, but obviously it does
----------------------------------...
On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out
No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at.
----------------------------------...
Self-mutilation via dull spoon
I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy
----------------------------------...
Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even
hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?
----------------------------------...
In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk
Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)
(ended with vordamnte smiley)
----------------------------------...
Of course, this is only, IMHO :)
(ended with vordamnte smiley, and an IMHO)
Oh
#633 posted by Abyss [203.51.236.214] on 2003/10/24 21:13:39
No offense to your good self or your mother intended, of course.
Correct Quote-tagging Is For Women, Faggots
#634 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/24 21:27:32
"I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject."
Are you seriously expecting me to keep up with the inane ramblings of the servant staff? Uh?!
"The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man."
Well, I'm a skinny guy. We fight till we're burger - in the immortal words of Tyler Durden.
In addition, I'm cheating by way of exo-skeleton.
"That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions."
I give up. What DID Eastwood say about opinions? (Rhetorical question, do not answer.)
"Oh, but obviously it does"
I beg to differ. I also beg for mercy, salvation, from the idiots. So far, no luck.
"No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at."
You sir, lack ambition. Why stop at your kindred species?! Fuck the whales, fuck them right in their blow-holes, what have they ever done for us?
Ambition, ambition.
"I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy"
You sir, lack conviction. If you have to rush it, it's not really fun. Softie.
"hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?"
You sir, lack finesse. That would be the retort of your average four year old...
...chimp.
"Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)"
I object to ignorant, the other - I freely admit.
Abyss
#635 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/24 21:29:56
None taken. If you knew my mother, you wouldn't care about offending her.
When (if ever. Oh, if ever) she dies, I will perform a small dance, followed by a toast. Then, checking the will.
Thank You Sir
#636 posted by Abyss [203.51.236.214] on 2003/10/24 21:46:52
That would be the retort of your average four year old...
Almost but not quite, actually, it is the retort of your average fourty year old. But I will take that as a compliment. I am young at heart.
As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread. So I bid you good day
Hmm
#637 posted by Abyss [203.51.236.214] on 2003/10/24 21:50:18
That was supposed to be
As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day
I'd Just Like To Step Out Of The Closet For A Second...
#638 posted by czg [80.202.31.140] on 2003/10/24 21:59:28
...to let you both know I love you with all my heart and I will go to bed a happy man tonight and masturbate furiously in the morning because of you.
Thanks!
#639 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/10/24 22:42:48
I second the motion. Both. Love. Happy. Furiously.
Good night :)
( look, a smiley ^^^ )
.
#640 posted by nakasuhito [67.166.103.93] on 2003/10/25 00:29:10
hardcore gay bondage sex?! this remindsme, jesus and satan pratice kamasutra together.
AguirRe
#641 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.155.82] on 2003/10/25 00:30:43
What I meant about q2 lighting style was the texture based lighting. The fact you could "turn on" a texture and have it emit an averaged colored light. (based on the textures base color) I know some of the newer maps I have looked at have exibited similar lighting qualities around textures as q2 had on some of it textures.
What DID Eastwood Say About Opinions?
#642 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/25 01:31:02
There are two kinds of opinions in this world: those with guns and those who dig.
No
#643 posted by Abyss [203.51.236.214] on 2003/10/25 01:56:30
Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one
#644 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/25 04:42:33
You had to answer, didn't you?
Hahahahahah
#645 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/10/25 07:19:51
I would love to refer you all to the classic internet picture which carries a small messege, unfortunately I suck and dont have it or know the link, so this quote will have to do instead :
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded"
:) :) :) :) :) :) :D :D :D :D :D :D !!!!!
#646 posted by wrath [217.209.176.137] on 2003/10/25 08:54:19
At the very least, I strive to be the best retard of them all.
A dubious honor to be sure. Still, it's good to have goals.
DaZ, Abyss
#647 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.241] on 2003/10/25 12:20:57
I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I've no current plans to include coloured lighting or antilights in my Light tool.
They're both features that I don't use myself or have any major interest in. It's also not that easy to incorporate them, they both require substantial changes and add quite a bit complexity.
I hope you'll understand my current stance. It may change of course ...
That's OK
#648 posted by Abyss [203.51.217.252] on 2003/10/25 16:42:33
I didn't hold much hope, as I asked you before if you were planning it, but you got to be in it to win it, so I thought I would through my hat in the ring again.
FaTbOy!
#649 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.102] on 2003/10/25 22:01:25
AFAIK, what you call texture based lighting is what is known as surface lighting and my tool doesn't do that.
There is however a tool called q1rad that can do that, go to http://www.orbiter-productions.com... for more details and download.
If you've seen a recent map that has been lit by my light tool and that appears to have surface lighting, maybe it's because I've added some softening features that can reduce the sometimes harsh shadowing of Q1.
I think a good mapper can make use of this and create an atmosphere that feels a bit different than regular Q1 but still with the same relentless combat. Or something ...
AguiRe
#650 posted by FaTbOy! [216.80.153.11] on 2003/10/25 22:16:53
I have no idea what utility the guy used on the map, it just appeared to be using surface lighting. I will probly try both of them out to see which I like more.
Sorry To Dig Up The Dead But...
#651 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/27 15:22:29
Wazat's thought process:
>As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day
1st reaction: Aw mannnn... I'm in the wrong place.
2nd reaction: Wait, there really is a Mental Help thread? Then the stories are true! Link!
3rd reaction: Where am I, and why are the people arguing?
I just think it's funny that such a large percentage of the recent posts was just a flame war. Here I was thinking there was an in-depth discussion on the higher principles of mapping, spanning over 50 or so posts. :)
Wazat
#652 posted by wrath [217.208.210.68] on 2003/10/27 17:29:37
that was NOT a flame war.
Correct
#653 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/10/27 17:34:05
That was polite Sunday-afternoon banter.
Rpg
#654 posted by wrath [217.208.210.68] on 2003/10/27 17:43:29
A difference of opinions on the finest of points. Carried out in a diplomatic, open-minded exchange of ideas on a multitude of non-offending subjects.
Yes, quite.
My Mistake
#655 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/27 17:43:46
:)
Hmm
#656 posted by nonentity [144.32.128.133] on 2003/10/27 18:34:52
That was a couple of hundred posts short of a flame war too
Hmm...
#657 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/27 19:33:13
If I play my cards right, I can start a flame war over the definition of a flamewar...
/me is left to ponder...
#658 posted by wrath [217.208.210.68] on 2003/10/27 19:56:00
Long time since I saw a good old flamewar.
Someone insult someone!
Well, Ok. But I'm Not Responsible For What Happens...
#659 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/27 20:49:51
I think Lovecraft is stupid, even though I've never read anything he's ever written and have no idea what it's about.
I'm also not a fan of Giger.
Those seem to be two of the most highly guarded subjects on this board, at least.
Wazat
#660 posted by wrath [217.208.210.68] on 2003/10/27 21:19:53
Lovecraft couldn't write good prose to save his life, and Giger was a first class, blue ribbon asshole. I wouldn't call any of them holy cows either.
You suck at this game.
Wazat And Wrath
#661 posted by pushplay [24.86.74.102] on 2003/10/27 22:22:01
Your favorite bands suck.
What A Coincidence
#662 posted by Abyss [203.51.235.91] on 2003/10/28 01:54:45
My favorite band is "SUCK" as well.
...
#663 posted by starbuck [82.33.88.105] on 2003/10/28 05:35:36
they suck
Bloody Amateurs...
#664 posted by xen [82.32.32.44] on 2003/10/28 08:03:25
*cough* scale *cough*
This Is Too Hard
#665 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.203] on 2003/10/28 09:44:40
Can't we just insult another board and start an inter-forum war? That always works.
Wazut
#666 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/10/28 13:32:52
your a flaming cunt.
Thanks
#667 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.100] on 2003/10/28 14:34:20
I'm blushing.
No Im Totally Serious
#668 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/10/28 14:52:48
You come on this board thinking u have a massive dick but NO! U have nothing, just a shitty white name and no brackets!
U CHATTIN' BREEZE CHUBBAH!
*continues Blushing*
#669 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/28 16:23:08
The Continued Misadventures Of Me
#670 posted by wrath [217.208.210.68] on 2003/10/28 16:29:53
ok, you know how I mentioned that gtkradiant was really sluggish? everytime I moved about in freelook or moved, resized or otherwise violated the brushes - the cpu would peak and everything would go "no-no-no-not on your life pal".
well. It's gone right now. I haven't changed shit. I installed mplayer for windows yesterday, but that's Got damn it.
tried restarting gtkr, could've been a fluke, but it's still as smooth as one should expect.
now I'm afraid of rebooting my system.
computers, like women, remain a mystery unto the world.
I Understand Computers *way* Better...
#671 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/10/28 18:25:28
than I understand women. This is why most of my relationships involve electronics. Until the playstation 2 dumped me. Now I just sit in the dark and remember better times...
About gtkr, it's possible mplayer installed better drivers, or tweaked something in your config setups, and gtkr is benefiting too. Or, knowing mplayer, your computer was probably so traumatized it couldn't screw with you today.
Either way, you *probably* don't have to fear restarting your computer.
Question
#672 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2003/11/04 16:17:11
Player can walk over 32 units holes in floor, monsters cannot. Is it possible to make them do that somehow without trigger_monsterjump (clips doesn't help)
???
Well
#673 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/11/04 16:35:44
You could use a func_wall using Tyrann's skip/caulk tool, but then you couldn't shoot through it.
Tyrann, last I checked your skip/caulk tool wasn't listed on your website. I know it's beta and all that, but what gives?
Then
#674 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2003/11/04 17:29:02
where can I get this skip/caulk tool?
PuLSaR
#675 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/11/04 17:56:54
May I e-mail it to you?
Yeeeess
#676 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2003/11/04 17:58:38
my e-mail is pulsar_2001@mail.ru
Look In The 2000 Archives...
#677 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.213] on 2003/11/04 17:58:47
second update. link still works
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/...
I do believe that was the only version ever...
Yes
#678 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.233.191] on 2003/11/04 18:01:46
See Scampie's post. He rocks.
RPG & Scampie
#679 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2003/11/04 18:28:09
tanks a lot for help
No,
#680 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.213] on 2003/11/04 18:30:14
tank u!
Oh Yea-h-
#681 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2003/11/04 18:39:23
tanks rocks ;)))
my -h-ands don't listen to me when I'm almost asleep
Hmmmm...
#682 posted by distrans [203.36.15.125] on 2003/11/04 23:22:49
German Panther... sexiest tank of all time (especially teh Jagdpanther).
Yes
#683 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/11/05 02:45:48
and RPG coming a close second :D
Mapping Help
#684 posted by atropos [217.42.56.177] on 2003/11/06 12:22:01
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated.
Mapping Help
#685 posted by atropos [217.42.56.177] on 2003/11/06 12:23:25
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated.
Atropos
#686 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2003/11/06 13:13:45
what's the problem there exactly?
what do you want exactly?
I Don't Think That's Possible.
#687 posted by necros [63.139.106.158] on 2003/11/06 17:26:51
since the only way to control a door in q1 is to set it as toggleable. but that means it will only toggle from up and down on each triggering, so you wouldn't be able to control which state it should stay in depending on which direction your going in.
you can try adding an angle value to your triggers that are attached to the door. the angle keys will make sure the triggers can only be activated in a certain direction, but beyond that, i don't think there's much else to do.
It Can Be Done...
#688 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/11/06 17:49:56
but it's complicated. I'll post an explanation when i get home.
I Dunno If This Is What You Want
#689 posted by czg [80.202.31.37] on 2003/11/06 17:55:18
But check out this:
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoi...
That's the best approximation of what you're describing I can think of.
Look At CZG's Map
#690 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/11/06 21:02:59
He did exactly what i had in mind.
Many
#691 posted by atropos [217.42.56.177] on 2003/11/06 21:08:50
thanks
Many
#692 posted by atropos [217.42.56.177] on 2003/11/06 21:12:09
thanks
Many
#693 posted by atropos [217.42.56.177] on 2003/11/06 21:19:54
thanks
Many Thanks Indeed!
#694 posted by czg [80.202.31.37] on 2003/11/06 21:38:09
Famous E1m8
#695 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/11/07 12:54:42
Thankz..
Here a mapper, who tries to compile a map for
the famous e1m8 gravity level.
I done so, changed in the world.qc name for e1m8,
compiled, but the level does not appear in the game.
Is it possible to do so, or is it just whisfull
thinking?
Haven't seen so much gravity levels afterall.
Well, Technically Yes
#696 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.109] on 2003/11/07 13:26:18
But, I've noticed that quite often the game favors files in the pak files over files outside of it. However, if you change the directory using -game, the new directory's files take priority. So, you have two options:
1. Delete the original e1m8 from the ID1 folder's pak file
2. create a new folder in the quake dir called mymaps or e1m8, make a 'maps' folder inside that folder and put your bsp in it, and start quake with -game e1m8 or -game mymaps (whatever the folder name is). For example,
quake -game e1m8
A third option is to use a progs.dat or other mod that supports map gravity. For example, I believe my VoidEnts mod allows for map gravity by giving worldspawn a "speed" or "gravity" value (it also supports localized gravity, like in a certain room etc). Then you wouldn't have to name your map e1m8, but you would have to start with the -game parameter to run the mod.
Hope that helps.
Loosing Weight
#697 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/11/07 14:03:58
Thanx Wazat.
I am using it in a convertion, so I have to pack al the files in a PAK file as a convertion. Don't know if I'll manege that.
And I don't want people, who play the sequel,
to ask to delete a file from their PAK-file.
Probably they just don't know how, and it would scare them off to play.
I will take a good look at your voidents again.
(As the laserbeam still is a mistery to me)
Dammit. Why Isn't The Force With ME?
#698 posted by Mr_Tea [24.158.204.102] on 2003/11/08 13:14:39
I'm having problems with patches and my Jedi Academy map -- the patches are quite defined and obvious, and do not blend at all. I've done what I can with the textures lining up and all, it seems that the patches themselves are apparently the tools of the Dark Side. Where is Obi-Juan when I need him?
#699 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.213] on 2003/11/08 13:48:46
I suggest just using brushes and not all this new fangled 'patch' technology.
Qc
#700 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/11/08 23:42:40
why can't I just change the name e1m8 in the world's.qc into the map name I need?
I've been looking to the voident article, but I couldn't find a gravity option.
Madfox:
#701 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.183] on 2003/11/09 00:00:21
check out Custents; it allows you to change gravity without editing quakec.
Anyone have a Custents download URL?
Yeah
#702 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.243] on 2003/11/09 03:45:53
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
Great!
#703 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/11/09 11:56:22
Big Thanx there, FatController & Wazat!
I was looking for these files a long time.
Had a lot of it, but only in the *.qrk extention. And Quark is good!
But now I can at least compile with the true-ones.
Anyone seen the dragon.qc ?
#704 posted by Mapist [213.170.78.10] on 2003/11/10 13:27:51
I need RTCW single player tutorials, can any one help ?
First Result On Google...
#705 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2003/11/10 14:29:06
http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/t...
There's accually a bunch of good tutorials there for general quake3 engine mapping too.
MadFox
#706 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.102] on 2003/11/12 13:12:00
Try giving worldspawn a "speed" value, that might do it. If not, I probably forgot to update the VoidEnts download after re-doing them for Battle Mech.
I'll try to get that done sometime soon. So busy with college... :)
BTW, Custents is an awesome mod to use. I highly recommend it.
Doom3:
#707 posted by Sgt. Bilko [24.158.204.102] on 2003/11/14 05:28:01
Try http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/s... -- that should cover what you're looking for, soldier.
Mistar Webmastør Metal-slimes Sir!
#708 posted by czg [80.202.222.98] on 2003/11/14 20:58:49
I managed to cook up* a bsp that creates that fantastic got a NaN velocity on monster_whatever error in fitzquake. (The one necros was moaning about earlier.) Just wondering if you ever found out what caused it, and perchance if the bsp would be of any interest.
* By "cook up" I mean I decompiled one of my maps with a bsp2map proggy and tried to recompile it again.
Hmm...
#709 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.183] on 2003/11/15 04:37:03
I used to get this in the debug build, and i was really worried until i found out that the problem went away in a release build.
Anyway, i'm pretty sure it's a compiler thing (as i haven't done anything with physics code) but... hmm. I don't really know what causes it. I can look into it, and maybe i can write some code that says "if you get a NaN velocity, reset the velocity to zero" or something... so that the error will still happen, but you can keep playing anyway.
P.S.
#710 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.183] on 2003/11/15 04:38:51
Whenever *I* got it, it was always on the player, and always in a debug build. But i assume it's related either way. For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something.
P.P.S.
#711 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.183] on 2003/11/15 04:40:01
I'm totally drunk, and i can barely operate the keyboard or focus on the monitor. So it's a wonder i can still spell or type. I guess it's becuase i'm a bad-ass. Anyway.
More Flexible Light Distribution In Q1
#712 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.37] on 2003/11/15 09:53:46
If you've been having problems with Q1 light banding effects in e.g. arch faces or infinite (delay 3) lights saturating entire areas, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.26 version available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
There are several new options for more flexible light distribution. Also, there are several new emulation modes for the ArghLite/IKLite/LightDLX tools.
Re:P.S.
#713 posted by czg [158.38.54.106] on 2003/11/15 10:17:15
For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something.
The map in question, (which, as I said, was a result of a decompile of one of my bsps,) was composed of 5000 1 unit thin brushes (the original map was 1000 brushes) , each representing one face in the map. So yeah, it was crazy in the brush department.
It leaked too...
Just To Let You Know:
#714 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/11/15 23:58:05
it was on a monster_shalrath, so i just moved all the shalraths around. stupid way to fix a problem but it worked.
ps: and it's moaning now, eh? :P
Floating Items
#715 posted by bawb [130.243.14.136] on 2003/11/27 10:00:19
Hay!
I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done?
Floating Items
#716 posted by bawb [130.243.14.136] on 2003/11/27 10:01:57
Hay!
I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done?
Bawb
#717 posted by Vondur [62.181.40.126] on 2003/11/27 10:10:24
1. func_wall is a support for that armor
2. set trigger_once with kill_target key set to that func_wall
3. put info_player_start into that trigger
Or If You're Talking About Q3
#718 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.213] on 2003/11/27 11:10:46
just set the 'suspended' option on the item.
Qonverge Compile Error - Couldn't Read Rest Of File
#719 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.37.189] on 2003/11/27 14:51:58
OK, I'm using Hammer and Qonverge... oops I mean WorldCraft 3.3 and Qonverge, and get this error " Error 35: error reading from file. " after it starts to process Hull 3. Both Hulls 1 and 2 apparently have leaks somehow, { "Warning 10: reached occupant at <x y z> no filling performed" ) even though I've made sure the entire map is leak proof... I think anyway. i've never gotten this error before, and haven't found anything on here about this error. Can anyone help me fix this? Would be most appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving!
Error Reading From File
#720 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/11/27 15:54:09
Thats a new one for me, and I've been using Qonverge and hammer uhh wc 3.3 for ages.
Just a thought, but isn't hull 3 for use with player crouching? (I might be wrong) If it is then there should be a parameter you can set so that the compiler doesn't compile the map to be "crouch compatible". Which is q1 matters not a lot :)
What I Meant Is
#721 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/11/27 15:55:05
with this parameter hull 3 wont try and be created so your error might dissapear.
Which Parameter...
#722 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.37.189] on 2003/11/27 16:20:07
is it? Or do you know? I dunno maybe I should try to see if there are some leaks that I didn't get?
Ummm -nocrouch
#723 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.37.189] on 2003/11/27 16:26:33
didn't work. I tried it when I compiled, instead I just got the same error after hull 2, so that wasn't it.
Hmmm
#724 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/11/27 19:49:04
the problem runs a little deeper then :/
I dunno if I can help any more as I've never had this issue before :( I'm sure someone else around here can help, the guy who wrote the compiler has been known to peruse these forums on the odd occassion :)
I'm Not The Maker
#725 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.236] on 2003/11/28 09:29:34
of DuBSP (which is a part of the Qonverge utils), but I might be able to help you if you send me the zipped map+wad.
Efrags?
#726 posted by Madfox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/11/28 14:23:12
I was running the forumboards and came to someone, who had construckted with WorldCraft1.6
He got the error at the Quake1-console:
- too many efrags! -
Does anyone know, what this means?
Efrags
#727 posted by glassman [81.128.153.191] on 2003/11/29 04:33:21
I believe this is something to do with complex brush models split over too many leafs in the BSP. Each bit is split into a separate "entity fragment" of which there is presumably a maximum number. It can happen if you use that trick to reduce the number of bmodels by combining ones from different parts of the map into a single func_wall or whatever.
On the same principle it can probably also happen if you have a very large bmodel or one in an area of very complex brushwork.
Luma Gloss Bump Stuff
#728 posted by glassman [81.128.153.191] on 2003/11/29 04:38:31
While I'm here I'll ask a question. It's been suggested to me that I make a version of gmsp3 using hi-res textures and all the latest technology for use in engines such as DarkPlaces.
I'd like to do this (as long as it isn't too muxh work) not because I think it will necessarily be any better than the original but as a learning exercise for myself.
Not having kept up to date with this new fangled stuff (& never having glimpsed the doom3 leak) can someone suggest some beginners tutorials that would get me started.
Thanks
Efrags
#729 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.75] on 2003/11/29 05:28:55
Copied from Google usenet search :
I posted this question a few weeks ago and nobody even tried to
answer it! However, I did find out what was causing it in my maps. I
don't care for ID's torches, so I created my own using a thirteen sided
spike and the light_flame_small_yellow entity. I had tons of these
custom torches in my map and it ran great up to a point. I use
WorldCraft to create my maps and I found that if I moved the entity to
where it actually touched the brush that I would get efrags.
An efrag is caused when an entity is actually partially inside a
brush. The Quake engine is capable of handling a certain number of
efrags, but beyond that number it creates the "too many efrags!"
message. WorldCraft's entity sizes are not always correct, for example
the health entity is way too small in WC.
The entity for the
light_flame_small_yellow is too small in WC also, so by lining up the
brush and entity so that it looked like they just touch, I was actually
putting the entity partially inside the brush. This is what created the
efrags in my map. The solution is to put the light_flame_small_yellow
entity about 8 units above the brush. This doesn't look as good since
the flame doesn't originate at the botton of the entity, it floats
slightly above the bottom. I have noticed this problem with all of the
flame entities.
As far as not vissing the map, you will get the efrags message
whether or not you run a vis. The error is caused by the entity being
partially inside a brush. Curiously enough, light still creates lighting
effects even though the affected flames disappear from the map.
Apocalypse
Andy Knies
aknies@midohio.net
Maybe this helps?
Info_intermission Cameras
#730 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/11/29 12:06:57
Is there a limit to the number of intermission cameras a map can have in a Q1SP map? I put four cams in this map, and those work fine. When I add a fifth, either the first four continue to work but the new one won't, or the new one works but one of the old four won't. (When I say "won't work" I mean it won't use that cam for the intermission.)
I guess I've already proven that more than four cameras won't work and I'm just looking for someone to confirm it.
Glassman
#731 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.105] on 2003/11/29 13:13:54
I can't believe I am giving a first rate mapper advice, but here it goes -- The information on editing gloss, luma, bump/normal maps here is applicable for any of the accelerated builds.
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/in...
I don't think you'll need a tutorial on this aspect because if you understand the directory structure used for the accelerated Quakes (Quake\Tenebrae\Override -- for Tenebrae, Quake\Id\Textures for Darkplaces) you have most of the problem with texture placement solved.
If your concerns are with understanding the underlying technology, this guys page, http://www.paulsprojects.net/ can be of help.
BTW
#732 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.105] on 2003/11/29 13:19:41
I played gmsp3 on the latest Telejano 7.2 a few weeks back, and visually it already appeared pretty damn sweet. Of the three Quake acelerated builds, Telejano mangles the original textures the least.
Fitzquake
#733 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.98.187] on 2003/11/29 13:27:39
Thought I might try mapping again. Have been using Fitzquake to play the latest levels.
Copied my old Bsp Editor directory from my old slow computer onto my new fast one and am therefore using all of the old utilities - qbsp, light and vis. All seems OK (the editor works as it used to) until it comes to launching Fitzquake after a compile, and then I just get a crash.
If I try to run the compiled level from the game, it doesn't crash but I get some video problems and the game will not continue.
I suppose the question really is - do I need different compile utilities for Fitzquake.
Mike:
#734 posted by metlslime [66.135.128.76] on 2003/11/30 01:07:08
Is it actually a crash, or does it quit with an error message?
Is the error message "couldn't find gfx.wad?"
If yes, check out RPG's question and my response starting with this post: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
However, what about the video problems? I need more information to help with that.
RPG:
#735 posted by metlslime [66.135.128.76] on 2003/11/30 01:16:02
Looking at FindIntermission() in client.qc, it seems that you're right. That function appears to randomly pick from the first four info_intermission entities it can find.
Metlslime
#736 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.62.222] on 2003/11/30 02:57:58
Thanks. What I thought was a crash or video problem is actually neither. I had placed a few brushes in the editor along with a player start just to see if I could remember what to do. I had not created a 'closed world' and the video "problem" I saw was what you experience if you no-clip outside of a normal map.
All of my editor's batch utilities seem to work except BspBuild, which crashes with a 'path not found' error: I am still trying to work this one out but I'll get there.
I don't suppose anyone still uses Bsp and BspBuild these days? Is there a better FREE editor (I did try Worldcraft once but couldn't get on with it)
Thinking of what I've just asked, I am an old dog that probably should not try learning new tricks - I'll carry on with Bsp.
Glassman
#737 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.57] on 2003/11/30 03:17:00
Here is a visually interesting article on normal map application I just came across in my reading.
http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/nor...
Also
#738 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.57] on 2003/11/30 03:34:54
The techniques described in the article can be used in Blender which is free-ware.
But Then Again ...
#739 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.62.222] on 2003/11/30 05:00:03
A quick straw pole: what editors are in regular use for Quake1SP?
Thx HeadThump
#740 posted by glassman [81.128.153.191] on 2003/11/30 07:03:08
Nearly There (If Anyone Is Interested)
#741 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.62.222] on 2003/11/30 12:24:23
Got BspBuild sorted out: all of its' settings are in the registry, so just had to find them and hey presto!
So, where do I find all of the old half finished, half forgotten maps to start FMB15? Perhaps I can even join several in 100 minutes and enter them in the Speed Mapping Paks?
Any offers for my straw pole, 'cause if there are better editors nowadays, I would like to give them a try?
Editors...
#742 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/11/30 12:24:50
wc1.6
hammer
gtkradiant
minor ones like
quark
qoole
Metlslime
#743 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/11/30 12:50:16
Thanks.
Necros
#744 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.62.222] on 2003/11/30 12:54:16
I have had a quick look at the gtkradiant site and saw this message: -
Note: some work is currently being done to release a Quake game editing pack for GtkRadiant.
Does anyone use it for Quake1 at the moment?
Many Use Gtkrad Or Qer For Quake
#745 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/11/30 13:08:44
but with utils like mapconv instead of full in editor support. It works fine while waiting for full quake support.
mapconv:
http://rem.fov120.com/rem/projects...
I've Never Mapped For Q1 With Something Other Than GtkRadiant
#746 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2003/11/30 13:57:14
To Get You Started With It
#747 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/11/30 13:59:44
i wrote a short little "guide" explaining how to get gtkr working for q1 maps.
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
someone else did another guide which i think explains things a little better than mine, but i don't remember who.
Tigger-on
#748 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2003/11/30 14:33:22
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
is the one necros is trying to remember, i think.
Necros
#749 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.167] on 2003/11/30 14:47:26
I've noticed that the navigation at your site doesn't seem to be working correctly. Well, no links to seperate sections appear anymore on the main page.
Mike
#750 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/11/30 15:50:05
I use QERadiant and then SleepwalkR's mapconv to convert the .maps to Q1 format, which are then compiled with the normal compile tools.
Yep, That's The One! :)
#751 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/11/30 15:58:35
also, HeadThump, what browser are you using? there should be a small nav section in the topright corner.
Necros
#752 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.199] on 2003/11/30 23:41:06
IE 6.0
#753 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2003/12/01 08:13:51
I use only Worldcraft for Q1 and GTKRadiant for Q3. So much simpler to not use converters.
I'll use Radiant for everything when it supports Q1 'out of the box'.
Thanks
#754 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.81.115] on 2003/12/01 14:30:50
I'll have a go at GTKRadiant today sometime.
It looks complicated ....
Mike
#755 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2003/12/01 15:09:15
actually it's much more effective than WC. just try learning its basics and you'll see the light :)
i cannot map in wc after i switched to radiant.
fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map.
Scampie
#756 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.83] on 2003/12/01 15:34:36
The MapConv utility is pretty simple. Just put it in a file along with a dos prompt and your Quake .map file. Type, 'Mapconv -toq1 yourmap.map outputmapname.map' at the prompt and it'll convert the map from Quake 3 and 2 formats to Quake 1, and obviously '-toq2' if you are converting the other way.
That assumes that you have Dos available, of course.
BTW
#757 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.83] on 2003/12/01 15:38:26
You don't have to use the Converter to get the Quake I .map to display in GTKRadiant so you would not need the mapconv tool for that purpose.
I Mean,
#758 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.83] on 2003/12/01 15:40:27
GTKRadiant already displays Quake I maps.
#759 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/12/01 15:48:20
fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map.
yes, but what you're forgetting Vondur is, YOU R4WK!!11!!
fucker
Headthump:
#760 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2003/12/01 16:57:54
It's not that it's hard to do that stops me, it's just that fact that I'd rather not have to do anything special to get it to all work. Call me lazy, but I'd rather just work in multiple editors for now.
Rocks And Skyboxes
#761 posted by PuLSaR [195.208.237.70] on 2003/12/01 17:08:48
Can anyone help me: I'm finishing Q1SP map where I use sock_eg wad and need some rock textures and skybox to fit the theme (egypt). I have some custom textures of rocks but they don't fit the map good IMHO so I used ID original rock textures temporary and now it's time change them
I Use Quark As An Editor.
#762 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/12/01 17:30:19
http://www.planetquake.com/quark/
It's easy, simple, and has a very nice entity/brush list that I can't survive without. One of the major reasons I've never converted to another editor is, the ones people keep suggesting have no entity/brush list. I depend on that do find my brushes at least half the time. I do not enjoy playing the "let's find the obscure brush lost in the jungle that I was just working with not 2 seconds ago" every time I want to edit a brush that's not immediately accessible in my current view or zoom.
And I'm not heavy enough into mapping to go learning everything all over again. :)
PuLSaR
#763 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/12/01 18:37:06
I already have 2 skyboxes in a desert theme and I can also make one specifically for you. Could probably do a rock texture too.
Lemme check Sock's egyptian textures, possibly show me a screenie or whatever, and we'll talk.
Faaaark Someone Uses Quaaaaaark?
#764 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2003/12/01 19:27:37
Scampie
#765 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.216] on 2003/12/01 20:51:28
Nah, that is not lazy. Alternative methodology.
Wazat
#766 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.216] on 2003/12/01 21:01:10
Does Quark have a spawnflag explanation/selection in its entity list? I encountered an odd one for the Hellknight that I had never seen before, and it did not seem to be listed in the .qc source either. How it actually functioned (it has to be there somewhere!) has baffled me.
Yes
#767 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.8] on 2003/12/01 21:17:47
It usually explains the spawnflags pretty well. If you hover the mouse over (or click) the ? button above the entity list, that should help.
What's the spawnflag that's giving you trouble? I might be able to explain it.
Thanks Wazat
#768 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.67] on 2003/12/01 21:55:35
I decided it was worth downloading (the 4. x) version, and figured out what happened on the source map (one of the 100 Brush contest maps); it was a miscalculation - perhaps from calculating in Death Match, I suspect.
Wazat
#769 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2003/12/02 01:20:02
Between using the 3d view window and a number of commands that let you select the depth of the brush you're selecting I find grabbing brushes to be a snap in radiant. I don't know how brushes are IDed in a brush list but I'd hate to have to remember numbers corresponding to brushes.
Kell
#770 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.114.166] on 2003/12/02 05:52:59
My map isn't lit yet. But that's ok I may e-mail you a screenshot.
But I use completely sock_eg wad (without any other textures)
Pushplay
#771 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.203] on 2003/12/02 09:52:53
Probably so. I just like having brush groups and such listed just like vector paths and layers in illustraitor/photoshop.
Mystery Leak
#772 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/02 10:08:02
Whenever i compile the map i'm working on, it says there is a leak at a light. The map compiled fine until i added in the most recent 6 light entities. I thought that maybe if i deleted those light entities the map would compile fine. However, when i compiled after deleting the new light entities, the leak was pinpointed at lights that had been working perfectly fine before. Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>qbsp qtooe2m4
TreeQBSP v1.90 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Input file: qtooe2m4.map
Output file: qtooe2m4.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
----+----+
2954 faces
519 brushes
41 entities
22 unique texnames
516 texinfo
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
514 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
2916 brushfaces
1733 csgfaces
1670 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
1712 split nodes
812 solid leafs
838 empty leafs
63 water leafs
3029 leaffaces
2806 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (224 -1088 144), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to qtooe2m4.pts
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
*** WARNING 19: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
---- WriteBSPFile ----
697 planes 13940
3034 vertexes 36408
1750 nodes 42000
516 texinfo 20640
2844 faces 56880
1664 clipnodes 13312
940 leafs 26320
3067 marksurfaces 6134
11219 surfedges 44876
6993 edges 27972
22 textures 194772
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 3222
3 warnings
Elapsed time : 0:02
Peak memory used : 2.1 MB
C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>tyrlit... -extra qtooe2m4
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 20 from worldspawn.
41 entities read, 19 are lights.
Lighting face 2844 of 2844
Lighting Completed.
lightdatasize: 44429
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
2.0 seconds elapsed
C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>vis -level 4 qtooe2m4
---- vis ----
testlevel = 4
LoadPortals: couldn't read qtooe2m4.prt
No vising performed.
Leviathan
#773 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/12/02 10:29:51
load up the pointfile in game and find that leak
check the light entity at (224 -1088 144) in editor to see where the path will start
What Kell Said And
#774 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.82] on 2003/12/02 13:07:42
to get rid of the "No entities in empty space ..." warning in hull 2, you must make sure that at least one entity is moved further away of nearby walls/floors etc. I don't remember the exact distance required (it varies with hull).
If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Worked Quite Well
#775 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/02 13:15:03
I found the leak almost immediatly. Thanks Kell
Aguire
#776 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/02 13:18:27
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem?
Aguire
#777 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/02 13:22:31
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem?
Leviathan
#778 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/12/02 13:33:49
if you have light entities close to a brush feature ( e.g. a light fixture ) don't place the entity flush with the surface of the brush; move it away. Distance depends on the effect you want for your lighting, but I'd say 8 uits should do nicely.
Never place a point entity so that its origin point is flush with a brush ( ooh, poetry )
You'll Need At Least
#779 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.55] on 2003/12/02 15:00:17
one entity (e.g. the info_player_start) that's clearly separated from the solid architecture, maybe by 32 units (I don't recall the exact value). You'll know you're clear when the warning disappears for all hulls.
Think of hulls 1 and 2 as "pumped up" (expanded) variants of hull 0 (the visible brushwork). Therefore you might need to move the entity yet a little bit even if it's visibly clear off the brushwork.
Also...
#780 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/12/02 15:57:52
it would work to add an info_null to your level which is the correct distance away from all brushes, if you don't want to move your real entities around.
A Question For Speed Map Veterens
#781 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.108] on 2003/12/02 22:26:20
Many maps generated from the Speedmaps actually have pretty decent play and layouts. At the very least, they tend to be of a better quality than any one would expect given the time limit. What kind of methods do you use to speed up the process, or, how do you organize your productivity differently than when you are mapping without the time restraint?
It Worked
#782 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/02 22:54:18
It seems that you were right about the placement of the player start entity. I just moved it as you said, and all was well.
Thanks for the help Aguire and Metlslime
How I Speedmap.
#783 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/03 00:24:29
I just use a shortened version of my own mapping habits. Make a cool area, think about what it will lead to, continue down that route. I start with little or no idea what I'll be doing for the round.
My latest speedmap, I knew I wanted a graveyard, so I started with some tombstones, and made it a dark room so I wouldn't have to fuck with the walls much. I knew then I had to go inside maybe a temple, so I built a little entryway, then added functionality for monsters in that room. I add all the entities as I go, making it easy to quickly finish up the map if need be. Also helps think about progression and balence of the map because I know what I've done it what that player has seen.
Anyway, after the entryway, I built the little main hall with blinky lights (my new fave speedmappery toy) and decided to add a gold key bit. My first thoughts were to make a large area with 2 floors and a squarish bit in the middle containing the gold key and monsters... Reliezed I was late on time, and started on just making it a little room with a key and a few baddies.
Decided it was way too easy and far too bland to be worth while, so I thought back to my e4 playthrough for an idea. Remembered the bit with the moving wall that was so interesting, and yet completely simple to implant.
Neat thing about making it was that the candle light models can't move with the moving wall, so I placed them where they'd be in the 'open' position, and presto, 'elder torches that light instantly!' I thought it was a pretty cool unplanned idea, but no one seemed to notice :(
After that, threw in the end, and called it quits. Complied, played thru, Added more shells, health, and rockets than I had at first, and hid an armor in the graveyard, and called it good.
The problems with my method are obvious, easy to get off track, easy to spend way too long on a start area, breeds rather short maps. Some of the advandges are that it lets me dynamic with the map and fuck around with neat ideas withoutworry because I can always end maps quickly.
A better plan may be to quickly build a layout in 5-10 mins, detail it in 50-75 mins, add ents as you detail, and get in a few quick playthroughs. It's very recommended to leave a few mins to test frequently and some spare time for last min fixes.
Thanks Scampie
#784 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.133] on 2003/12/03 00:58:48
I did notice it -- the map kind of took me back to the old days of the game Dungeon Master where each room was an original way to screw with the player. I wondered when I played your map how much thought had to go into that trick.
Worldcraft Question
#785 posted by Morfans [62.252.212.3] on 2003/12/03 07:59:46
I've been asked a mapping question and rather than point the askee here I thought I'd ask myself, so apologies in advance if I use any mapping terminology incorrectly.
Using worldcraft shareware version.
Got a .map from someone.
It's all very dark i.e. no lights.
lots of light entities in the .map
Someone else opened it in quark. Lots of light just as it should be.
QUESTIONS
Is this a known issue?
Would the registered version fix it?
The guy in question doesn't want to have to learn a new editor just for this so please don't say "use a different editor".
Better still can someone mail me the registered worldcraft so he can try it and then you can post something here saying "No I won't send you the registered version. That would be dishonest. The very idea!"
Thanks.
#786 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2003/12/03 08:19:58
Lights just aren't bright enough I'd bet. There's no limitations for lights or anything like that in shareware Worldcraft.
If I were at home ATM, I'd post the registered version anyway. It's not dishonest to get the registered version of an editor you can't buy anymore.
Here Ya Go
#787 posted by starbuck [82.33.88.117] on 2003/12/03 08:52:00
http://freshteam.telefragged.com/i...
Thanks
#788 posted by Morfans [217.137.254.47] on 2003/12/03 09:09:38
Cheers, Scampers. Cheers, Starbers.
Now the blind shall eat, the hungry shall walk and the Lame shall see again. :-)
HeadThump
#789 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/12/03 10:04:19
Um... I just try to map really, really fast.
Seriously, I do all the architecture first, then the lighting, then the gameplay. Sometimes I set up the brush entities (doors, buttons, etc) as I make them, but sometimes I do that when I get ready to do the gameplay. Frequently I'll do the basic lighting, and then after I check to make sure that's mostly okay, I'll tweak the lighting as I tweak the gameplay. I also play through the maps a few times to make sure the gameplay is mostly balanced and completable.
Also, if there are any bugs, I will take the necessary time to fix them, even it takes 30 minutes extra. Bugs are bad, mmkay?
Speedmaps
#790 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2003/12/03 10:59:48
most of the people doing good speedmaps have probably done pretty much mapping in the past and that should help... another good thing might be to decide on a plan and stick with it no matter what.
Speedmapping
#791 posted by metlslime [66.135.128.76] on 2003/12/03 12:20:24
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.
As for the process, i speedmap the same way i make real maps -- every room is built, lit, and stuffed with entities before i move on to the next room. (Though at work, i've moved towards blocking out the entire level's layout before detailing anything.)
Yeah That Too
#792 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/12/03 13:32:36
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.
Ditto.
Title
#793 posted by PuLSaR [195.208.237.78] on 2003/12/03 17:07:28
trigger_multiple doesn't work inside trigger_push. Is it only my bug or not?
BTW Kell, did you get my e-mail?
and what's up with your site?
PuLSaR
#794 posted by Kell [82.41.49.31] on 2003/12/03 17:14:20
got your mail; skybox is made and tested; working on some rock textures atm.
SOK was transferred to another server a few weeks ago when the net cafe where it was hosted closed down; consequently, it's down more often than it's up - sorry :(
Thanks Every One For The Feedback
#795 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.139] on 2003/12/03 18:12:30
R P G -- I find I have to do the entities along with the archetecture or else my scaling gets out of wack. This happened big time on a recent map I did for a Tikidomain contest that I wound up not submitting as a result of my mistake (it caused problems in the -vising). Chalk it up to experience, I guess.
HeadThump
#796 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/12/03 18:23:11
I don't normally have trouble with proportion. This is partly because I have almost all hallways 128 or 256 units wide and 128 or 192 units high. However, this becomes a problem because then everything becomes standardized and the map feels more rigid and less dynamic.
RPG
#797 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.224] on 2003/12/03 23:50:00
I'm coming along in learning to proportion my maps better.
One way to break from making things look standardized (and after all standardization is realistic if you are doing human environs) is to weigh things down to account for gravity. Have the columns bend slightly in a downward slope, and the ceilings shift around a center of gravity.
I learned this from an architect who designed my old college's art building. He said that he always kept in mind the pivot point of his structures and the natural incline of gravity and weight to that point when he worked out his design to ensure maximum 'dramaturgy'.
It is a bit trickier to do in a virtual setting (veering from 15, 30, 45, and 90 degree brush design causes alignment problems) but that is all the more reason to fight for that extra last inch of realism.
Mapping Help Becomes My Favourite Thread :)
#798 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.229] on 2003/12/04 12:45:14
Is it possible to create monster clip in original quake? If it's possible than how?
...
#799 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.96.229] on 2003/12/04 12:46:12
I mean only monsters couldn't pass thru it, not player or weapons
No
#800 posted by czg [80.202.222.81] on 2003/12/04 12:58:01
The only thing you can do is use a trigger_monsterjump that throws monsters away from any doorways you don't want them to enter, but that looks silly though...
Only In...
#801 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.114] on 2003/12/04 14:03:35
QC code. If you're not too hot with including a progs.dat with your map, then it's not a feasible alternative.
Pulsar
#802 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/04 14:23:42
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it. Dogs and fiends can still pass though if the player is in sight...
Good Idea
#803 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.114] on 2003/12/04 14:29:46
The player can jump, or you can make a player-only teleporter to bridge a gap.
You can also use the fake q1 ladders, since monsters most definitely cannot use those.
Also, you can make a trigger (will only respond to players) that triggers a door or barrier to open or move, which then rapidly closes behind him.
But if you want a barrier that monster bullets and attacks cannot penetrate, then you'll need code for sure... maybe. People always have suprising tricks for these things. :)
Right
#804 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/12/04 16:04:41
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it.
Or make that gap 48 unit wide, and put a clip brush on top. (You could also put func_illusionary bars over it so it looks solid.) The player can walk over it, but the monsters can't.
Cool
#805 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.114] on 2003/12/04 16:10:26
Good to know. I had always assumed monsters could walk on clip, but this makes sense since tracelines go right through them.
Thanks, RPG.
Sky Textures
#806 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.35.242] on 2003/12/04 17:00:08
Is there, or could there be, a sky texture without a 'horizon'? Anyone know?
Well
#807 posted by PuLSaR [195.208.237.8] on 2003/12/04 17:13:49
thanks for you feedback, but my situation is a bit different, i.e. I need monster clip to protect trigger_mosterjump that I placed for one special monster that should fall on it from above
but I think making a gap around it will help me
/me goes to check it
Well
#808 posted by czg [80.202.222.81] on 2003/12/04 17:35:48
If the problem is that there's monsters running into the monsterjump after it's been used, you can kill it with killtargets you know...
Or..
#809 posted by glassman [81.128.217.29] on 2003/12/05 01:45:14
you could make a func_wall that covers the monsterjump for the earlier ones & then kill the func_wall to reveal it. If both are pretty thin it might hardly be noticeable.
Or The Floor Is A Func_door...
#810 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.203] on 2003/12/05 11:15:27
...that moves down a few units to expose the trigger.
Oh
#811 posted by PuLSaR [195.208.237.239] on 2003/12/05 17:06:48
thanks a lot for feedback, I think now I'm able to make it work as I want
Warning 12
#812 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.32.16] on 2003/12/06 11:36:12
Warning 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r. Does this mean I have like a lava or water brush that goes past a brush to the outside, like I think it does or does it mean something else? How can I fix this problem? I used DuBSP and WorldCraft to compule this map.
No, You're Probably
#813 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.73] on 2003/12/06 12:18:38
thinking of the "Mixed face contents ..." warning/error. The warning you mention usually doesn't cause any problem and I've actually never seen a good explanation of it.
Also, having lava/water/whatnot sticking out into the void doesn't matter at all; it's removed (filled) by the compiler if the map is properly sealed (no leaks).
Zwiffle
#814 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.243] on 2003/12/06 17:16:22
New portal was clipped away errors can occur where there's overly complex brushwork in a place; it's like the compiler says, "I give up" and chucks the whole thing.
I had that with a couple of tunnels in FC1M2 - so bad were they, I couldn't vis the damn thing. I had to rip out the offending walls and redo them with simpler brushwork.
Oh Ok That Makes Sense
#815 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.32.16] on 2003/12/06 21:45:34
Thx I know why I get that problem now. I made a room with like 5 cylinders, 16 sided each with all sorts of decorative carvings in them, something like a few hundred brushes in one scene from the carving alone. Thx for the help!
Zwiffle
#816 posted by leviathan [68.160.172.105] on 2003/12/06 22:57:32
Carving is evil, and will lead to many erros in your map. When splitting up brushes, always use the clipping tool.
New Portal Was Clipped Away In CutNodePortals_r
#817 posted by Mike Woodham [81.128.235.143] on 2003/12/07 02:34:13
Try this link for a few more suggestions
http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLa...
Interuptable Vis Program
#818 posted by Scragbait [65.92.8.175] on 2003/12/08 18:53:03
I believe that on one thread there was a discussion about a Q1 vis program that you could stop and restart, saving intermediate results. I need such a program to process a map that is taking a very long time to vis.
That Would Be Very Nice...
#819 posted by Wazat [144.38.206.16] on 2003/12/08 19:28:49
I wonder if it's real, or in mid-development/planning...
I Think It Was Just Some Programmer's Dream.
#820 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2003/12/08 20:43:47
like maybe tyrann or aquire.
No It Actually Existed
#821 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/08 22:20:04
I think Aguire was giving them out to people in the last coagula contest; copies of a vis program that would save progress in the event of accidental shut down (like a powercut, crash or whatnot).. enabling resume next time the program ran.
Interuptable Vis
#822 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2003/12/08 22:22:13
Couldn't you just nice/prioritize it down the point of it being virtually paused? You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue.
Hm
#823 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/08 22:26:12
You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue.
Why else would you want to stop & resume it? :S
That Vis Thingie
#824 posted by Zwiffle [67.39.36.19] on 2003/12/08 22:55:51
I believe Bengt Jardrup's latest vis update has a safe feature which will start at the last save point if you stop in the middle. I'm not sure though, I thought I saw that on the vis update text on his webpage.
Xen
#825 posted by Scragbait [65.93.172.194] on 2003/12/08 23:29:31
I can't wait that long.
Windoze ME
#826 posted by Scragbait [65.93.172.194] on 2003/12/08 23:34:29
...or my internet access manager has memory leaks. I run a clean PC with no background tasks but that still isn't enough on top of 3/4gig of RAM. I have to restart way too much. My map needs days to vis.
Yea, I know a Q1 map shouldn't need so long to vis but I'd like to try the sledgehammer first. I'm tired of this map and want to move on
Restart Of Vis
#827 posted by Hrimfaxi [80.164.82.163] on 2003/12/08 23:52:40
Yes aguirRe made his vis autosave some time ago.
It will restart from the last savepoint if the vis is stopped. A really usefull thing if you have to break operation in the middle of a long vis.
Get it here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
What Hrimfaxi Said
#828 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.52] on 2003/12/09 06:47:18
The AutoSave feature was added in the RVis 2.19 version in July. If you check out the readmes you might find other useful tools/features as well ...
Scragbait: Running Win9x/Me with more than 512MB can be problematic. It's then recommended to set a max limit for the VCache in the system.ini file:
[vcache]
Maxfilecache=512000
Scragbait
#829 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/09 06:48:06
I can't wait that long.
Come again? Wait for what?
Sorry Xen
#830 posted by Scragbait [209.226.65.58] on 2003/12/09 07:36:47
I meant to respond to Pushplay but misread it as coming from you. I now see the context of his comment - to run vis in background and keep using machine as normal. I meant that I couldn't wait between sessions of using my machine to leave it running vis only. I shouldn't post while sleepy.
aguiRe - Thanks for reply. I'll definately add those lines to my system.ini and I look forward to getting my insane map vised (but it will take days.)
And...
#831 posted by distrans [144.139.71.199] on 2003/12/09 08:14:12
...it will be worth it =)
Scragbait
#832 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.118.85] on 2003/12/09 14:45:56
Do I remember vising a previous map for you that took something like 60 hours?
Anyway, I have a second computer that I can tie up for a couple of days for you if you want.
What PC
#833 posted by Gib [212.140.125.101] on 2003/12/09 14:49:06
What PC do you have? Surely it doesnt take that long?
Scragbait
#834 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2003/12/09 14:58:41
Windows ME leaks like a caulender. I used to use it so I know that you can put up with it if you want. But it's going to be a couple years before a new windows comes out, and I'm sure XP will save you at least a hundred and fifty dollars of headache between now and then.
My PC
#835 posted by Scragbait [65.92.14.242] on 2003/12/09 20:15:36
I just can't not abuse the Quake engine. My latest map is brutal compared to Scragbait's Estate but like SBE and a mother's ugly kid, I've grown somewhat attached to it in it's current state. Like the ugly kid too, I want to kick it out of the house rather then reform it.
I have a decent machine Asus P4T MB with Intel 1.2GHz P4 CPU. There's 3/4Gig on board so it should be up to the job. I'm embarrased to say that 4 days later, the map was at 87%.
I should probably switch to XP (not relating this to vis, BTW) and cough up the $150 or so Cdn to get it. My buddy really saw his Radeon 8500 performance take a jump. Are there happy Radeon (mine is 7200) equiped, XP OSed, FitzQuakers out there? I already went through Q1 failure with updated drivers so I've stayed put with older ones. I'm also somewhat put off by the gadgets and visual noisiness of XP but I guess, like ME, you can't hunt those things down and return to a less cluttered desktop and cut down on background CPU distractions. My kit now boots fast and clean. I just added aguiRe's line to my system.ini so see how that goes.
Mike. Thanks for the offer. I can send you the source files and you can shake your head at this thing if you like but no pressure. I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist.
Oops
#836 posted by Scragbait [65.92.14.242] on 2003/12/09 20:18:33
I meant you can hunt these things down. Typo. Those evil things like PC Health, System Restore and that atrocious Instant Spammer.
Reply
#837 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2003/12/09 20:35:04
I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist.
It has been established that it does indeed exist. You can grab it from here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
And hurry up with that map! :D
Scragbait
#838 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.181] on 2003/12/10 04:49:20
Would it be possible for me to get the zipped map+wad? I'm always interested in large, complex or troublesome maps to test my tools.
RPG And AquiRe
#839 posted by Scragbait [209.226.65.58] on 2003/12/10 07:06:01
RPG - You're right. I grabbed it many posts back. I'm running it now. Saw that typo and didn't want to look dumb yet again by reposting another correction. I'll learn to proof my stuff better - maybe.
aguiRe - I'll send you the files. I'm sure it will look interesting from a technical standpoint. I can send you my WC file as well since the abundant visgroups will help you sift through the mess.
Zipped Map+Wad
#840 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.87] on 2003/12/10 09:49:27
should be enough for now, thanks. If I need the rmf I'll let you know.
Btw, is your WinMe system running more stable now or do you still have problems? You might consider upgrading to Win2K/XP since they are far more stable than any Win9x hybrid.
Especially since you seem to have the hardware for it ...
WinME
#841 posted by Scragbait [209.226.65.58] on 2003/12/10 12:58:00
I haven't seen my Internet Access Manager act up since adding that line. I haven't spent too long on the machine since editing the system.ini but my initial impressions are good.
Scragbait
#842 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.31.56] on 2003/12/10 14:42:16
The offer is still there.
mikewoodham -at- msn -dot- com
Probably need the .wad as well if it is not standard.
Scragbait
#843 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.229] on 2003/12/10 17:55:42
Just wondering, have you tried sending me the zip yet or have you been busy?
Mike
#844 posted by Scragbait [65.93.174.172] on 2003/12/10 23:50:11
Is your email working? Tried twice but it bounced. Only message is that delivery failed. I also double checked your email by looking at a FMB readme - was the same as posted here.
I'll try again Sunday night.
I Sent Mike A Copy
#845 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.57] on 2003/12/11 04:35:47
last night and so far it hasn't bounced.
AguirRe
#846 posted by Mike Woodham [81.128.231.136] on 2003/12/11 17:36:51
Thanks. Your notes looked interesting: I'll have to try your utils, especially Light.
Scragbait / AguirRe
#847 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.20.112] on 2003/12/15 14:00:46
Mmmmmm...
Didn't get far I'm afraid - too many efrags or Fitzquake constantly crashes at the point of loading.
I don't have any other version of Quake loaded now so I'm at a dead end already.
Mmmmm...
Mike
#848 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.115] on 2003/12/15 14:42:30
What do you mean? I also got the warning "Too many efrags" (probably torches partly inside brushes), but that shouldn't cause any engine crash AFAIK.
I've successfully rebuilt (qbsp, fastvis & fastlight) using my tools and loaded the bsp into FitzQuake 0.65/0.75 and even GLQuake without other problems than the efrags warning.
You'll need more than 16 MB heap in GQ though, add -heapsize 32768 to the command line. I think FQ default takes 32 MB so it should be fine.
What tools and versions did you use to build the bsp? If the map leaks, you'll probably get problems loading the bsp into some engines.
AguirRe
#849 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.20.112] on 2003/12/15 15:12:05
I just tried again and can see that after the too many frags message, there is a 'got a nan velocity on monster_army' message.
I then get a nicely controlled crash of Fitzquake with what I am sure is an honest and genuine apology from Windows -
"Fitzquake.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."
Nice.
Did you see an extremely long brush that exceeded the world boundary when you first opened the .map?
I am using the utils from your site, although I have only run qbsp so far as I wanted a quick look around.
Hmm
#850 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.207] on 2003/12/15 16:02:26
I have no problems loading the bsp, whether directly from tx/treeqbsp or after fastvis/light. I've seen someone else here also having problems with that float error (nan velocity) in FQ, maybe metlslime has some suggestions?
Did you build directly from the command line or from within the editor (whichever you're using)? Maybe your editor has changed some brushwork without telling you?
I built directly from command line and that works fine. I've also loaded the map into my editor (QuArK) and built from there but then I've had some problems with a warped brush and hull 1/2 leaks. It's pretty slow to compile, too, about seven minutes on a 1.7 GHz.
I haven't seen any huge brushes in the editor, but there is a couple of duplicate planes in the map file that QuArK (and compiler) just reports and discards. I just made some tests sealing off some messy brushwork and converting objects into func_walls to see how much could be gained from that, nothing major so far.
I've also been running a hefty vis session that so far has reached about 72% in about 62 hours (estimated total 190 hours, great). This map is a vis bitch ...
If you wish, we could take the discussion off-board.
AguirRe
#851 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.20.112] on 2003/12/15 16:28:28
OK I'll e-mail you with a little bit more detail. But I am off to Valencia in a couple of hours (to watch Cirque du Soliel, which has nothing to do with Quake) and wont be back until Saturday.
I hope it will be OK with you if I come back to you then. Thanks.
What Have I Unleased?
#852 posted by Scragbait [65.93.173.215] on 2003/12/15 17:47:43
The map from hell.
Mike - Are you using the latest patched version of Quake itself? 1.08, I think. Perhaps that doesn't matter if running another engine like GLQuake or FitzQuake.
I have been able to compile and run but enemies become invisable later in the game. I'm running it on a Radeon. Don't know if your display card and driver could be contributing to the crash.
Scragbait
#853 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.109.173] on 2003/12/16 02:34:05
Just Fitzquake. AguirRe's utilities. Radeon9700 Pro. Bsp Editor. WinXP. P4 2M, 1G Ram. Nothing unusual?
Tyrlight Output Of Lit Files
#854 posted by Shadowalker [207.154.80.230] on 2003/12/16 03:28:48
I want to create lit files for my existing maps, already have the lits from fuhquake. Can someone create a tutorial on how to do this? I just get lots of errors when I try with tyrlight.
sw
Scragbait
#855 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.95] on 2003/12/16 04:29:45
Did you receive my last emails Dec 11th?
Shadowalker
#856 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2003/12/16 10:07:04
this program, called Onelight, extracts the coloured light information from a .bsp file and makes a .lit for you
http://www.orbiter-productions.com...
Oh, Unless You Meant
#857 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2003/12/16 10:10:19
you wanted to automatically generate .lit files... there's a program that gives you coloured light based on the colour values of the textures nearest to each light
that gives pretty poor results though, and I've forgotten what the program is called :)
Got The Emails
#858 posted by aguiRe [65.92.11.132] on 2003/12/16 21:27:30
I sent you an email that got sent back to be for some reason. Is your Realbox full? I'm going to take your suggestions with your light program and your other tools once I've tidied the map some more.
I've been cleaning up my brushwork in the cliffs. It's slow going but should help somewhat.
I sent an email with this question. Here goes:
Real quick question that I hope you can help me with. I'm filling in voids
and cleaning my brushwork. What would be the better approach to constructing
a wall of brushes. Would it be:
1) Use triangular brushes (as viewed from above) to create the bank. This
would require more brushes but I assume that I would then end up telling BSP
how I want the vertices generated.
or
2) Use polygonal brushes. There would be fewer brushes but BSP would
generate the vertices with the possibility that more triangles may be
generated on the face then if I stuck with option 1.
These brushes have straight vertical walls. No fancy clipping.
Just curious.
Yikes!
#859 posted by Scragbait [65.92.11.132] on 2003/12/16 21:29:33
The email above was posted by Scragbait, not aquiRe. I was going to make aquiRe the title line.
No wonder my maps suck if I can't pay attention to details.
Scragbait
#860 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.123] on 2003/12/17 07:48:36
I've sent you an alternative email address, please re-send your previous email(s) and I'll try to answer your questions. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Lit Files
#861 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.144] on 2003/12/18 19:10:55
I want to take my old maps and use quark to add colored lighting as exported lit files. I don't think qip engine supports bsp 30. I have tyrlight to export the lit files. Any more info needed?
as
Scragbait
#862 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.156] on 2003/12/19 12:00:40
Do you still have trouble sending me email or are you just too busy?
Shadowalker
#863 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2003/12/19 21:41:57
Re: #854, #861
What errors are you getting from TyrLite?
Aguire
#864 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2003/12/19 21:42:58
Re: #858
Triangular is definately better.
Trust me, I know ;-)
(off-topic)
#865 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/19 22:58:53
people are popping out of the woodwork last few days here... Fribbles posts, then Peej, and now Tyrann! I expect to see ZTN, Headshot, Retinal, Escher and all that old school crew next...
Tyrann
#866 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.118] on 2003/12/20 06:06:33
are you sure? I noticed in Scragbait's map that he'd used triangular shapes in some rock formations and the way they met in very thin and pointy brush corners made me think that qbsp might not like that.
Also, more brushes means more faces to have possible alignment errors in. My spontaneous recommendation would be less brushes are less problems, at least if everything's kept on-grid.
The only obvious risk is that you hit the face limit on the brushes (especially in hulls 1/2), but with modern compilers that shouldn't really be a problem.
Well, you're the more experienced mapper, so I'll take your word for it.
Scragbait: does this answer your question?
As The Corps...
#867 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/12/20 17:16:09
What would be the easy-ist way, to change the
sequence tex between the four episodes.
I tried several times in client.qc but this does not seem to work.
Sometimes there is only {WrtiteScript MSG}
Sometimes there is WriteString (MSG_ALL, "As the corpse of the monstrous entity\nChthon
Although I changeds all the letters in the same account, it won't give a ridge.
Or should I make a Quark.qme script?
Erm
#868 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.32] on 2003/12/20 18:08:15
did you compile it?
Map Not Compiled Yet
#869 posted by Scragbait [65.93.149.82] on 2003/12/20 19:26:35
I'm away from my main box. I'm still cleaning up my map file there. I'll continue in the new year. aguiRe's and Tyrann's answers contradict. I'll choose in a discetionary manor between the two options. I know that distorted (pointy, thin, etc.) triangles are undesirable for Finite Element Analysis (stress, thermal, fluid flow analysis) but I'm not sure if it matters for rendering or compiling. I think it could go either way.
Scragbait
#870 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.227] on 2003/12/20 21:20:39
Would you be interested to know that my poor P4 has been churning on your e2m1a map for 147 hours (that's six days) straight now and has only reached 82.5%?
To make me happy, RVis merrily suggests that it'll be just another 185 hours before it's done ...
When you have a spiffy new map version, please let me know.
Also, follow Tyrann's advice regarding the brush shapes. I recall him having some problems with his large [yet] unreleased idbase map some time ago. I'll bet he tried a few things to make qbsp feel better then ...
Madfox
#871 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2003/12/22 00:56:36
Editing the end-of-episode text in CLIENT.QC, then compiling into a PROGS.DAT, is the only way to change that text (which should be in a line like WriteString (MSG_ALL, "End of episode text\ngoes here");
However, (at least in the QC editor I use) the text must be on one line. Line breaks in the text string itself are represented by \n - maybe that's your problem. It may be that your text is on multiple lines, and that's breaking your compiler.
Nailgun Ogre...?
#872 posted by [Jimbo] [164.106.42.174] on 2003/12/22 09:36:34
anyone have nailgun ogre QC that I can borrow for a Q1SP ?
I tried the TUT on inside3d but the ogre would
only fire one nail at a time, and When I tried to make him fire more, he just shot them all at once :(
Basically, I didn't want to go and outright steal someone's code, I wanted to ask first, and or code It myself, but I kinda ran into a wall on this.
Also, are the Zerstorer ppl. still around?
would they mind If I borrowed their chainsaw code/mdl? Full credits would be in the Text of course, how would I contact them? Or does anyone know of a chainsaw TUT somewhere? I think "Street Rage Quake" had a chainsaw but hmmm...
Jimbo
FC,
#873 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/12/22 10:20:20
the game will only break when a line is too long and takes more than a screen to write.
but line breaks should cause any trouble... i've written a few end game texts and i've never had much problem with them.
As The Editorwriter's Corps...
#874 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/12/22 12:09:02
I changed the text in exact the same count on letters and slashes.
Don't know what it is, had a hard time inding the right *.qc because some only mention
WRITE_STRING {MSG_ALL}
But when I did, I got a SIGSEV failure.
And Jimbo, look at gamers.org
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
There is a convertion for the nail org, although you have to councel out.
Mac VIS/Light/BSP?
#875 posted by . [172.170.86.176] on 2003/12/23 03:29:10
Is there by chance any of these tools for Mac? Preferably OS X, but if OS 9... I searched, can't find anything, but perhaps there is something lurking about. My Powerbook (867) would compile faster than my PC (150) so...
Jimbo
#876 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.176] on 2003/12/24 01:50:34
You can find most of the golden oldie QC files at http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2... I don't know if nail gun ogre is there, but most modifications that you would care to make can be done with a simple adjustment of some pre-existing design. For instance, my 'crotch sniffing' patch (the Ogres seem to like that one) is derived from the 'crouch' patch source.
As for Zer, I don't know; there is a bit of paranoia it seems in their copyright protection statement(so long as you are just suing my ass, and not the rest of me, I don't care). I have seen the chaingun in several mods though. For some qc patch work that would make for the basis of a complete episode, try Custent, I believe you can find it linked on Fat Controller's sight, and Nehahra has good source code, written in an interesting Pascal hybrid. Source of Evil sounded interesting in regards to its qc, but the download links from Tronyn's site do not function.
Lit Files And Tyrlight
#877 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.205] on 2003/12/24 16:26:00
I just had the files in the wrong directory, quark you have to your files in tmpquark. Quark won't compile it without a permission error. So, I use a batch file and still didn't work. I just had to change a bunch of lights at once. Finally worked, now the tough task of creatively lightning this older level. More questions...
Can the q3a tool bspc decompile quake1 maps? Because bsp2map, won't decompile scorn and other levels because of errors. Is mike reed still around? I'd love to give "crawling chaos" and scorn a modern look as an experience in mapping.
Also, I have new texture that comes off the wallpaper I made, if anyone's interested. I have the original PCD file, so I can remove the text.
Finally looking for mappers for ultimate deathmatch mod for quake. Mapping functions will be developed more, if someone is willing to map for it. I'll work with a mapper to develop it's mapping standards. If you can just convert a map DM or spq format, that's good. For now, just looking for interest.
as http://www.planetquake.com/ud/
#878 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/24 17:49:41
decompilation of maps won't give you much to work with or learn from. you'll just have a really messy .map file.
However...
#879 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/24 21:10:46
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.
About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it.
However...
#880 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/24 21:10:47
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.
About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it.
Random
#881 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/24 21:11:17
I clicked once & didn't refresh or anything... hm.
QBSP Error! CutNodePortals_r:new Portal Was Clipped Away
#882 posted by than [80.68.41.106] on 2003/12/24 22:04:48
Ok, this is an Quake BSP error message people have been getting since time began, but I've never heard a helpful explanation of it.
Basically what happens is that I build something nice, my brushwork seems tidy, it's all on the grid and all convex. All good. Then I compile and I get that bastard message.
I haven't noticed any major problems with the resulting bsps but sometimes it seems to fuck up brushes ever so slightly and causes very troublesome leaks as a result.
Can any of you compiler guys explain this error and/or know a solution to the problem?
I have been using Worldcraft exporting to map then wqbsp 1.65 by Ken Alverston
Sigh
#883 posted by [Jimbo] [66.207.91.70] on 2003/12/25 01:13:27
I found a chainsaw weapon in the gamers archive,
but it does wierd stuff, specifically, the .mdl
is screwed up in normal glquake and some ports,
It works fine in Telejano but fitzquake makes it appear odd, like some of the vertexes were not where they should be,
any suggestions?
Than
#884 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.42] on 2003/12/25 07:48:10
May I suggest that you take a look at the tools found at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k ?
There are enhancements, too numerous to mention, to the qbsp/vis/light tools.
As for the CutNodePortals_r warning, AFAIK you can safely ignore it. I've never seen it having any relationship with any real problem.
Maybe Thanbsp Is In Order
#885 posted by than [80.68.41.25] on 2003/12/25 14:24:10
which removes error messages, so as far as I know, everything is hunky dory :)
I'll check out your tools. I had actually seen them before and was planning to try them out but hadn't gotten around to it. Does you bsp support worldcraft exported maps? I think WC does something funny with normals and some textures can end up the wrong way around (particularly on 45 degree slanted stuff.)
You Can Use
#886 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.18] on 2003/12/25 16:19:10
the tools together with any editor that can produce vanilla Q1 map files and they also support QuArK ETP format. With ConvMap, you can convert Q2 maps into Q1 if your editor produces that format (e.g. GtkRadiant).
As for the texture axis issue, I think that those who prefer WC+TreeQBSP always use the "-oldaxis" option. Using TxQBSP, there is only one variant and AFAIK, it works as it should with WC.
I personally prefer Tx because it's more flexible and it has all the important features of Tree. Both compilers produce near identical results on any map.
They have opposite default values for watervis though (backwards compatibility), Tree has it default off and Tx default on. Both can be switched either way, of course.
Both also have a multitude of options; run the compilers without parameters and they will print out a brief explanation. The rest is in the readmes.
Let me know if you run into problems.
Jimbo
#887 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.129] on 2003/12/25 18:27:49
I looked at the weapons listing gamers has for Quake QC and there are several chainsaws listed. If you narrow down the file name, I'll be glad to take a look at it and see if I can clean it up for you. It could be a simple matter of turning some normals around.
.
#888 posted by [Jimbo] [66.207.91.70] on 2003/12/26 01:43:06
ch_saw.zip was the one that I tried,
Mainly because it had source included,
I didn't want to try and decompile something.
Begining Mapping
#889 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.230] on 2003/12/26 03:12:22
#880 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/24 21:10:47
>Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.
Nope, I decompiled scorn with no trouble. Next, I recompiled with treeqbsp, rvis, and tylite with no problems, worked flawlessly. Just took four hours total with my dino p200.
>About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it.
I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.
I'm going to add eye candy to scorn and more rooms for the mapping experience... I'm not used to mapping in 3d, so this is a pain. For now, i'm re-lighting elmdm5(elmmagi series dm maps). I keep getting disoriented and changing the wrong lights, using the 3D window and normal xy and xz windows. Any tips?
as
Chain Sores
#890 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2003/12/26 06:12:11
I used the Zerstörer chainsaw in OUM, mentioned that it came from that mod. That seems to have saved me from being assailed by Psycho Copyright Lawyers From Hell.
There was another chainsaw mod I saw where you could climb walls with it, but I didn't use that since it wasn't as good looking. 'Sides, climbing walls would've scrozzled the levels.
Correction - To Wazat
#891 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.204] on 2003/12/26 13:58:26
That came out wrong. When you view the 3D window in quark. The light entity shown has no depth perception. They look the same size no matter how far or how close you are to them. I'm having to look at all three window at once to find the right location to the light. I keep missing the target and changing the wrong light. Any tips as to how to nav better?
as
Shadowwalker:
#892 posted by metlslime [216.190.2.43] on 2003/12/26 15:23:33
I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.
Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply.
#893 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/26 15:46:25
In the fast paced mapping world, days are weeks and every second counts!
Eh...
#894 posted by distrans [211.28.141.26] on 2003/12/26 19:55:53
...nice colour scampie
Jimbo
#895 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.125] on 2003/12/26 20:16:37
I just got back from me mum's birthday dinner. I'm going to work on it tonight. No biggie. Model making (and correcting) and texturing I consider fun. Animation, however, makes me cry like a wee little girl.
FC, that is a good sign, indeed. Perhaps, the fellows who made Zer~ no longer have a bulldog lawyer on retainer to sniff us rebellious, retrobate modders out for our pernicious tomfoolery.
Distrans:
#896 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/26 22:16:24
thanks, thought it was time for a change.
Going Native
#897 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.247] on 2003/12/26 22:35:52
I was rebuilding the model from scratch, rebuilding each frame as a seperate asc just to ensure no incapatabilaties between them (though I have a feeling the problem may be in the qc compatabilaty , I had the same problem with Fitz that you reported). The skin is in a non standard size for plain modelgen, and it would be no problem in QpenQuartz but I no longer maintain Linux or Cygwin on my system and the OpenQuartz utilities need the libpng.2.1.dll to function. Anyone know of an easier solution than extracting the .dll from a Cygwin build?
Update
#898 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.46] on 2003/12/26 23:21:21
Just to save time I built the mdl file with a nuetral skin and with the original id tools, and the same problems persist.
I checked out the .qc files to see if it was worth recompiling them (the file dates april 97 which makes me assume the progs.dat is out of date) but there are some problems in the naming convention. It is used as a replacement for the axe, and it keeps the IT_Axe naming convention in the player.qc file, but renames the mdl file v_axe, and in the weapons.qc the functionality for it is labeled fire_axe.
Mind, if the original programmer kept this consistent, it is not a problem in and of its self, but I have not spotted the necessary linkage between the model, postional name, and weapon function that would have to be there to make it function normally.
I'm just going to go ahead and recompile it as is and see what happens.
Sent Many Messages
#899 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.208] on 2003/12/26 23:46:07
#892 posted by metlslime [216.190.2.43] on
"Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply."
Actually, i'v sent a few over the last few years that I recall, Might have been bad adresses and/or got lost in cyberspace. Too bad you missed my raves about that level.
as
Okay, This Is What I Can Report
#900 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.77] on 2003/12/27 00:57:09
The source code for that chain saw is good code. All the functionality connects as it should, and the gib spray code the programmer added is pretty sweet. The fact he was doing arm positioning back in early 1997 is impressive.
I recompiled it adding the player.qc file and weapons.qc to a clean version of v106qc, and these are the results using both the mdl that came with it, and my rebuild:
Unmodified (software) Quake -- It works
Telejano -- It works
Dark Places -- It works
Tenebrae -- It works
FitzQuake -- Chokes on it like something obscene
GLQuake -- boinked beyond belief
The only other one I would bother to look into is Tomaz Clean Source; the executables derived from it work so it should as well.
It is just a peculiarity of the way GLQuake reads model files. I believe a solution to this problem was posted over at QuakeC Extreme (http://qcx.telefragged.com) so I'll check into that sometime.
There are two other possibilaties -- include an executable with your project. I would personally ask Tei if its okay, he is pretty flexible, or, use FC's OUM as a source. Abuse his generosity for all it is worth. Take his turrent code while you are at it </;-)
Personally I like that chain saw source code you brought to my attention. The next step I'm going to take with it is to borrow my neighbor's Black'n'Decker and make a high polyversion for my darkplaces mod.
Broken In Glquake
#901 posted by Preach [81.129.3.170] on 2003/12/27 08:40:30
One thing you might wanna try if it's looking all messed up in glquake, but working in other engines, is the mesh files(assuming you haven't already).
Glquake builds mesh files of quake models once, and saves them in moddir/glquake(and/or id1/glquake). Most modern engines no longer do this, as it causes problems if you change the model or load a different model with the same name. Instead they build the meshes from scratch each time you run it, as it's fairly fast.
So, I'd recommend deleting your glquake folders in both id1 and the mod directory. It is important to delete the id1 copy, as mods will look for meshes in there, even if the mod changes the model that mesh corresponds to. Don't worry about deleting anything important, all this stuff will be rebuilt automatically.
Yeah, So
#902 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2003/12/27 18:59:33
where do you go for beta testing?
does anyone here still betatest q1sp maps?
Necros:
#903 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/27 19:30:12
of course people still beta test q1sp maps.
Either ask some of your buddys here, openly ask for people to mail you if their interested, just put the beta up and link it for anyone to grab (screenshot thread, at least back on Qmap, used to double as the beta testing thread too so that'd be the place to do it), or hop on IRC, go to irc.gamesnet.net in #terrafusion and ask some of us to quit being losers and beta test your damn map. Plenty of options.
Also, I'd beta test your map if you want, just shoot me an email or something.
Hardly Dare To Ask...
#904 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2003/12/27 23:45:07
betatesting?
Great, I was bizzy with Starlight21.
He tested my first 5 levels, and did a great job! Sure he did.
I have the levels ending on e1m2.
So ready to send you. If you can have some Old School Q1 ragging?
.
#905 posted by [Jimbo] [66.207.91.70] on 2003/12/28 00:07:00
Thanks guys,
Deleting the meshes didn't work for Fitzquake, it still died, normal glquake worked though.
I may use this version of the saw anyway,
looks like it is easier to integrate into
my current codebase than the Zer/OUM saw.
If I rename the .mdl (in code and file) it shouldn't conflict with the axe mdl meshes.
Hey Guys...
#906 posted by metlslime [12.228.106.201] on 2003/12/28 15:08:58
If you have a repeatable bug (crash or otherwise) in fitzquake, i'd love to hear about it. Send me an email if you can.
What Is It With
#907 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2003/12/28 17:54:28
sections of a brush being transparent for apparently no reason at all?
my fix is to put a same sized, same textures brush as func_illusionary but it's just a hack, really...
Metlslime
#908 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.255] on 2003/12/30 02:33:42
Certainly. I haven't had a chance to test things since Friday, but I would suspect the source of the error is that FitzQuake is not allowing an override for the chainsaw uses the same .mdl name as the axe.
I apologize that I am not as familiar with your code base as I should be given the many bug fixes you have implemented for the Quake Source.
If I get some free time later in the week, I'll test this out further and e-mail what I find and any fixes that I may come up with.
Metlslime
#909 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.50] on 2003/12/30 05:28:26
I still have problems with FQ 0.75 aborting with "Bad surface extents" although the readme says that it's fixed. Also, I've also had rare aborts with something lika "Texture is not 16 aligned".
Necros - I Test SPQ1
#910 posted by Scragbait [65.93.173.84] on 2003/12/30 14:41:24
I've got lots of experience. I'm available for testing in early January.
AguiRe
#911 posted by Scragbait [65.93.173.84] on 2003/12/30 14:52:07
Cleaner map will come in January. I feel sorry for your P4 chewing the gristle that is my map. What I've done so far is neater and internal voids are being filled in.
Distrans - Good to see you posting. Know that I'm fighting the good battle to see E2M1a compiled.
Heh
#912 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.34] on 2003/12/30 15:08:16
My P4 didn't know what it volunteered for; it's currently at 98.27% after nearly 299 hours with an estimate of another 35. That's 12 days straight over a period of 19 days real time. A new record for me at least.
Scrag, don't worry, I do it mostly to see if it's actually going to finish and to test my tools. Just let me know when you have a new version ready and we'll take it from there.
Aquire:
#913 posted by metlslime [216.190.2.100] on 2003/12/30 18:28:51
the only case of "bad surface extents" i fixed is when it's caused by a missing sky or water texture in the bsp file.
As for the "not 16 aligned" message, i'll look into that when i get home (i'm on vacation currently.)
Refer#910
#914 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/12/30 23:35:10
awesome, gimme your email and i'll shoot a message off to you around that time.
Necros:
#915 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2003/12/31 00:49:18
check your mail man, just sent you a bunch of comments and suggestions.
Madfox: Sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, I'll peek at your map really soon.
Scampie,
#916 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2003/12/31 17:27:03
i didn't get the email.
did you send it to either necros@planetquake.com or necros@rogers.com?
Phait, You Wanted Mac OS Compile Tools?
#917 posted by grahf [24.51.155.88] on 2003/12/31 20:04:37
this site should have them: www.planetquake.com/paroxysm
Grahf
#918 posted by . [172.160.164.32] on 2004/01/01 01:54:23
Thank you very very very much! :)
Hellllp!
#919 posted by the silent [82.84.30.44] on 2004/01/01 05:45:51
...Does anyone know how to get GtkRadiant 1.4.0 working for quake mapping... I already read the Tuts by Tig and Necros (thanks a lot guys) but they're both for version 1.2... Anyone has a clue? I'm a complete newbie, so the question could be very stupid.....
Necros:
#920 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/01/01 13:43:54
to necros@rogers.com
Got It!
#921 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/01/01 22:13:18
thanks for the awesome feedback, Scampie!
Scragbait
#922 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.114] on 2004/01/02 06:06:08
Your map finally finished vising:
---- Vis 2.22 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: e2m1a.bsp
6117 portalleafs
22174 numportals
Loading state file: e2m1a.vis
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 552
max leafs visible: 2336 near (-2885 -1736 1184)
c_chains: 2789094431
visdatasize: 1169545 compressed from 4679505
Elapsed time : 5h 45m
Session time : 346h 1m
The bsp actually works, too (at least in FQ). Max wpoly is about 3500 near the power plant tower (the coordinates above).
I sincerely hope that you can reduce the fullvis time from its current 14 days ...
-Alternateaxis
#923 posted by . [172.172.185.212] on 2004/01/02 06:43:23
I may be doing something wrong, but how can I put in a parameter for the BSP program in Worldcraft 1.6? I've got 4 different BSP's: WC's, Tyr's, Tree and W. I'm having the problem with 45 degree angle texture misalignments. I've tried the paramter under Tools/Options/ and in the BSP path field... with some BSP programs it throws an error in the process window and continues to compile, in some it just builds with no error.
Or am I just better off BSP'ing manually? I had fixed this issue a long time ago, but I think it may have been a modded .FGD actually. Also, is there a certain FGD you would suggest getting that I may be better off with regardless?
Phait
#924 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.92] on 2004/01/02 12:09:23
dont use the worldcraft process window, just open a dos window (start->run->command (or cmd if running 2000/XP) and compile from there.
and -alternateaxis is probably what you want. as long as the texture is aligned in wc it will show up fine w/that
Oh, And...
#925 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.92] on 2004/01/02 12:10:47
fgds shouldnt really mean anything to your compiling other than where items are placed, use czg's it has fixed item-offset bugs iirc:
www.planetquake.com/greyvoid/quake...
Damnit
#926 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.92] on 2004/01/02 12:11:12
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoi...
#927 posted by . [172.147.56.79] on 2004/01/02 13:30:07
Thanks
Texture Mess
#928 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/01/03 15:34:28
Have a Q1map, which makes account of :
prepare used textures => 26 textures
Compiling it makes account of 29 textures.
Did'nt use animated textures.
What happened?
Pretty queer, because the map is 1.87Mb and won't run for 1.89Mb
Grandwoofer, help!
Bsp Build With Treeqbsp
#929 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.236] on 2004/01/03 16:15:16
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
----+----\
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 602 with 6 faces, metal2_8
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 593 with 5 faces, metal2_8
----+----+
731 brushes read
Has anyone encountered this before? How to find and fix this. Occurred on elmdm5.
as
Shadowalker
#930 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/03 16:30:03
Open the map file back into your editor.. it should remove the dodgy brushes. Resave and recompile. Note it's the file with the '.map' extension you want, not the editor-specific one like .rmf/.qle or whatever.
Or If It Doesn't...
#931 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/01/03 17:07:26
if you use gtkradiant: edit the .map file in edit or notepad or whatever, go to line 602, (or 593 as well) and find out what brush # it is.
now go in gtkr, and use the search for brush and search for the brush #. then you can delete it and remake it or whatever you chose to do.
otherwise, if you don't use gtkr, and can't find it in the editor you DO use, simply delete the entire reference to the brush in the .map file manually, then compile and find out what you took out.
Or
#932 posted by NotoriousRay [209.163.111.92] on 2004/01/03 22:17:45
replace the texture (metal2_8) to something obvious so you can delete it in your editor (what ive done, esp in areas with lots of brushes)
AguirRe
#933 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.241] on 2004/01/04 17:32:29
You've got mail
Map Compile In Elmdm5
#934 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.165] on 2004/01/05 16:30:10
Thanks for the info. I use quark, not interested in GTKR until it fully supports q1 maps, too much hassle. I'll stick with quark's one click loading. FYI, ELMDM5 is simple map, yet lot of fun to play. Quark wouldn't let me use groups with the bsp file. So, I had to decompile and recompiled it, just over 20 mins to compile.
I found that when I turn off "write float coords" in options, it causes a bunch of errors. Any suggestions how to configure quark to int coords without errors?
Also, decompiling and recompiling the map added 764 new faces, yuck. I'm learning quite a bit about it's put together. Almost finished completely relighting with tylite and adding some eye candy. Not ready to make a map yet.
as
...
#935 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/01/05 19:18:44
if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.
aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time.
Dilvish - Full_bright Query From Last Year
#936 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.89.181] on 2004/01/06 16:38:02
I don't know if you are still having a problem with fullbrights but you can get rid of them in TexMex 3.4:
1. uncheck Use Full Brites in the Preferences/Workspace tab
2. import the .wad file
3. select the texture with the fullbrights
4. click the Adjust Brightness button, click Remove Brites, click apply
Repeat for all necessary textures. Save .wad.
I've used this on David Gurrea's rock textures -it's fast, 40 textures took me 2 minutes to convert i.e. it's as fast as you can click.
Non Solid
#937 posted by Bazzu [80.198.236.226] on 2004/01/07 09:14:04
I was trying to make a map but all of a sudden many of the entities became nonsolid, buttons, doors e.t.c. You can walk right through them. There has been no warning from the qbsp program.
Does anyone know why this happenss.
Q1 Clipping Errors
#938 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.5] on 2004/01/08 09:56:50
If you're having trouble with clipping errors in your Q1 map (player walking/falling through solid brushes), you might be interested in the following procedure.
Compile the map with one of my compilers (http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k) and add the options "-solid" and "-hull 1". The first one just disables all liquid brushes and makes the sky solid and the second makes the player clipping hull visible. The build time will probably be longer than usual.
Then load the bsp into an engine, turn on gl_clear 1 in the console and noclip around in the map. Don't worry if the map looks a bit different than usual, all brushes are expanded a bit so it will look rather cramped at places.
If you notice something that looks like a HOM effect, then that area is likely to have clipping errors. After identifying the problems spots, inspect those areas carefully in the editor. There are probably some brush misalignments there. When the HOM effect disappears, the brushes are OK.
AquirRe
#939 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.249] on 2004/01/08 18:18:11
When will you add the negative lights support in your light tool?
Clipping Errors
#940 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2004/01/08 18:23:46
I'll have to give this another try when I get my editor back up and running.
Note that 'gl_clear 1' will turn off the HOM effect and you'll just see a solid colour instead (red in normal GL Quake, void grey in FitzQuake/TyrQuake)
Tyrann
#941 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.239] on 2004/01/09 04:41:27
As you already know, I've had this option for quite some time but I just discovered a couple of days ago this connection with clipping errors.
Normally one has to tediously move around in the map bumping every wall to discover the nasty clipping errors. This really helps in that process.
I must point out though that there could still be clipping errors even if there is no HOM, so it's no Magic Bullet.
PuLSaR: Sorry, no current plans on Antilights.
AguiRe
#942 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/01/09 12:22:04
could this be used to find spots where a player will get stuck on the joints of a 45º ramp?
It Might
#943 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.120] on 2004/01/09 12:45:06
because one big reason for clipping errors is two or more brushes that meet in a non-axial manner and that are also not aligned properly.
I'm right now trying to use this "feature" on a large number of maps that I've had problems with to see how it can help finding spots that the compiler apparently has some difficulties to handle.
Typical causes are very tiny brush gaps, overlaps or faces, either directly on the proposed brush or in an adjacent one. Most of the time it's in a non-axial junction.
But as I mentioned above, it doesn't catch all cases and it's certainly no guarantee that there is an obvious problem spot where the HOM is found.
Still, I find it a major help in tracking down these evil map-traps.
Float Coords In Quark
#944 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.220] on 2004/01/09 16:41:13
#935 posted by necros
>if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.
Thanks all, this will help.
> aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time.
I didn't see it on:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Where is it?
as
It's The One Called ConvMap
#945 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.207] on 2004/01/09 18:02:23
It has several conversion/fixup modes, but its original purpose was what necros mentioned; to convert a float map into an integer one with as little accuracy loss as possible. Check out the readme for details.
But if you use QuArK, I'd recommend that you don't disable float coords in map file, you'll just end up in Qoole hell. Load the decompiled map file into QuArK, roll up your sleeves and start the repair job (it might take a while).
Also, notice that there are many compiler warnings that you can safely ignore.
Clipping Errors Follow-Up
#946 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.224] on 2004/01/10 13:48:27
I've now gone through a lot of maps armed with the -solid and -hull 1 options, looking for HOMs and thereby clipping errors. I find it very useful because there are normally not so many of them, so you can easily go through them one by one, checking if they're worth fixing.
Some maps can't be built this way right now; when loading the bsp, the engine aborts with a cross connected doors error. I suspect it to be two normally separated doors that melts together in hull 1.
In the next version of my compilers, I hope to have an option -noents that removes all entities from the map except world and players. This takes care of the door problem and furthermore, it makes it a lot easier and faster to navigate the map (especially a big one).
No more worrying about monsters chasing your tail, triggers that set off in your face or you accidentally stumbling into a teleporter or change_level portal. Freedom at last ...
Checking the map visually in hulls 1/2 also has another unexpected bonus. If your map is big and you're close to the max clipnode limit (32767), you might find that large parts of the map are not filled in hulls 1/2 due to brushes melting together.
With some simple modifications, you might be able to fill those areas and thus lowering the # clipnodes significantly without changing the appearance at all.
...
#947 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/01/10 23:13:24
i'm still not quite clear on what it means to compile with the hull1 or whatever... how does that relate to clipping?
*confused*
I Was Afraid That
#948 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.78] on 2004/01/11 06:58:24
someone would ask ...
Every Q1 map has three hulls 0-2. Hull 0 is what you build in the editor and is normally what you see in-game. This visual hull is not what the player (or other entities) is "clipped" against, i.e. checked for collision so you can "feel" the wall.
This is due to speed reasons, it's easy to clip a point sized (infinitely small) entity like a rocket against hull 0, but for bigger entities like the player, there is a bounding box around it that defines its volume in space. When Q1 was made in '96, it was probably considered too processing consuming to clip the entire bounding box against hull 0 in the game engine so another solution was made.
If the qbsp compiler would, instead of just building hull 0, automatically build two other hulls (1 and 2) by expanding all brushes in hull 0 outwards the same distance as the bounding box for player or shambler sized entities, it would be much easier for the game engine to clip the bigger entities. It then only has to clip the mid-point of the bounding box against one of the other hulls to see if they collide. This is the same thing as clipping a point sized entity against hull 0.
So each time you look at the compiler output, you'll see something like Processing hull # three times. This is when the compiler builds your map, first the normal visible hull, then automatically generating hulls 1/2 by expanding the brushes in hull 0. The end result is three separate hulls in each bsp that the engine will load and use while playing.
What I've done via the -hull # option is to trick the compiler to build hull 0 the same way as it does for the other hulls, by expanding the brushes a bit, thus making one of the other hulls "visible". First I did this for educational purposes, to better understand how a bsp is built and, like you, get a clearer picture of what these other strange hulls were.
I didn't know then that by inspecting the map in the shape of one of the other hulls, you might use certain visual anomalies (like HOMs) to identify areas with problems. After identifying the area, you just make a closer inspection of that area in the editor and hopefully find the cause of the problem (typically some kind of brush misalignment).
If all this still seems confusing, just build one of your own maps (preferrably a small one) using the -solid and -hull 1 options and load the bsp into an engine and I'll think you'll understand better.
AguirRe
#949 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/11 12:46:37
thanks for the explanation!
very useful :)
Hah
#950 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/11 13:11:34
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)
and it's indeed useful, ispecially when you're not sure if player is able to get into some area, this option helps very much.
yet i've found the reason of weird clipping behaviour in some place thanks to this.
thanks again, bengt :)
#951 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/11 13:41:10
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)
Yeah but what did it look like *with* the hull 1 option? ;-p
Vondur
#952 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.249] on 2004/01/11 14:17:50
If you think your map looked fat evile in hull 1, try hull 2 instead. Sometimes, the whole map melts together into a real mess ...
Fixing things in hull 2 only helps shamblers and the like, not as important as the player.
There is an interesting thing regarding the various entity sizes. I have many times noticed that scrags and spawn seem to be able to sometimes move through solids, very annoying when fighting them.
I haven't confirmed this, but could it be that they are in fact point sized entities, so the smallest crack between walls will let them through? Or is there another reason?
...
#953 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/01/11 14:26:10
i've noticed the scrag problem myself. it would happen sometimes in nesp09, in the underground lava cavern. the scrags would spawn by the falls, and would sometimes clip right through the wall into the cave. it seemed to happen when there were a lot of scrags bunched up, so i just reduced their numbers and the problem went away...
incidentally, the scrags do have bounding boxes, they are the same size as a player entity. so i don't know why this happens.
also, the hull1 hull2 thing explains alot regarding bounding boxes. i could never figure out how the big dragon in nesp06 was able to fit through smaller passageways even though it had a massive bounding box.
thanks a lot for the clarification
Hmm
#954 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/11 14:32:57
maybe since they're monster_wizard they can turn on their NOCLIP? :)
Magic Scrags
#955 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2004/01/11 21:49:34
sv_move.c:SV_movestep treats normal and FL_FLY entities differently. I haven't time to examine it closely, but it looks a bit odd. aguiRe; see what you think.
I'm Not Very Good
#956 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.253] on 2004/01/12 05:26:20
at QC, I've only made some minor fiddling with it. I was just curious whether the issue was related to the entity size but apparently it wasn't. Come to think of it, it probably would be a lot more difficult to hit a scrag with a bullet if it had no volume.
Scrags...
#957 posted by necros [207.236.63.4] on 2004/01/12 09:58:21
don't actually use flying thing... they are set to movetype_step... it's confusing.
Movetype_step
#958 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/01/12 14:44:56
i believe this means that the entity moves in discrete steps (becuase of the 10Hz think function) and not that they actually walk on the ground.
Heh.
#959 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/01/12 22:00:24
makes sense, i guess. i just assumed it was walking, because there was movetype_fly as well. ;)
Interesting Hull Talk
#960 posted by Scragbait [65.92.15.168] on 2004/01/13 17:21:07
aguiRe - Interesting explanation of Hulls. I learned something. I wonder if my map troubles are related to these offset surfaces. I can just imagine what Hull 1 and 2 look like on my trusses. Bleh...
BTW, I'm vising my slightly improved map. It still sucks. I'm working on the 2nd map and letting your vis program take all my PC's spare time.
I also used the light parameters (light -extra -soft -light 20 -sunlight 150 -sunmangle 225,-30 -sunlight2 40 e2m1a). It does make the map look nicer and more natural. The only drawback is that I lose some cool looking shadows (such as the lifting truss shadow against the rockface) but I think I'm inclined to go with your soft shadows anyway if this thing ever gets done.
Maybe A Shader Question
#961 posted by pushplay [129.128.29.155] on 2004/01/16 11:48:24
What do I need to do in Quake 3 so that arcitecture won't show up behind skybox brushes. There's a small part of an adjacent roof you can see through the sky in one of my maps, which is culled from some angles but not others and looks generally weird.
Err
#962 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2004/01/16 12:24:08
Well if the surfaces you're seeing aren't ever visible by the player, you could caulk them. Otherwise, there's not much you can do.
I don't know how it works technically, but basically the skybox is drawn behind everything in the visibility table. So if VIS does not block Room A from being viewed in Room B, trying to hide Room A with a skybox won't work. This problem was evident in Quake 2 as well (load base1 and noclip to the top of the outside room; you'll be able to see the inside parts of adjacent rooms through the skybox).
The only real thing you can do is use areaportals and hint brushes to optimize VIS, or change the architecture so there's nothing to see behind the skybox (which is not what you want, surely).
I hope that made sense. If not, I defer to metlslime.
Pushplay:
#963 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/01/16 14:08:24
solution: build spatially coherent maps.
if there's a room up there, wouldn't you see the outside of the building? So build that.
Hmmmm
#964 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/01/16 14:35:04
Well it's just a small corner that you see. Technically you should be able to see something but it doesn't 'feel' like you should be able to. I could build an outside and make it look intersting. That would mean sealing some of the rooms in a box, isn't that what everyone makes fun of?
If It's Just A Corner...
#965 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/01/16 15:47:22
try simply raising the brushes a little to block it, or adding new ones to build it up a little.
Pushplay:
#966 posted by glassman [81.128.193.238] on 2004/01/17 07:32:45
There is a hint trick you can do that can sometimes fix that. Spog did a hint example map which you should be able to find somewhere that shows how. Its a matter of tricking vis to think that the area behind the sky can't be seen.
Glassman
#967 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/01/17 13:31:50
That would be perfect, thanks. I couldn't find it with google but I'll bother spog about it when I see him.
Pushplay
#968 posted by glassman [81.128.193.238] on 2004/01/17 18:50:14
you can d/l the map files here
www.glassman.mistral.co.uk/spog_hi...
Hmm
#969 posted by glassman [81.128.193.238] on 2004/01/17 18:51:27
.../spog_hints.zip
Clickable!
#970 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/01/17 21:09:46
http://www.glassman.mistral.co.uk/...
needs the http:// to be made a link
There Is Such A Pack!
#971 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/01/17 22:13:49
Spog said there wasn't. He gave me a very nice explanation about hint brushes though.
Bsp2prt Utility
#972 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.39] on 2004/01/19 09:28:22
Does anyone know if the source code is available somewhere?
That Stunning Allocate_hunc Error
#973 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/01/20 12:23:39
Quake1 map, which had a big content.(1.7Mb)
I have changed the textures count to its limits.
Than deleted several brushes.
Now I have a map of 1426kb, but it gets stuck!
Don't know what it is, under DOS there is no problem. But this Win98 won't play my map.
Is there a solution? possible?
Hunk_Alloc: Failed
#974 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.140] on 2004/01/20 13:57:53
You may need to allocate more memory for the engine by adding the command line option "-winmem 16" (DOSQuake) or "-heapsize 32768" (all other engines).
Thanks
#975 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/01/20 15:34:33
Didn't knew one could make the string longer.
Now it works with
quake.exe -winmem 16 -game aband +map start
Great!
Editor Window
#976 posted by Gib [213.1.45.6] on 2004/01/20 17:27:31
In the 3d section of worldcraft a texture that Ive place on an angle appears straight but when the map is loaded its turned back in the other direction, however if I change it so it looks wrong in wc it actually looks right in game, is there anyway around this or do I just put up with it?
Also I have this concrete section where it uses a tex called divider1b on the top then a seperate brush using divider tex on it but when in game it uses divider1b over both brush (they are touching if that makes a difference).
Editor Widow
#977 posted by czg [80.202.219.77] on 2004/01/20 17:32:10
Your qbsp prog should have a command line switch like -useoldaxis, -alternateaxis or something similar. Check the readme.
Using this switch when compiling should fix the problem.
Oh, You Had Two Questions...
#978 posted by czg [80.202.219.77] on 2004/01/20 17:40:29
Answer to second one:
This is a bug in WorldCraft.
If you've got a texture called divider, and another one called divider1b, if you apply the divider1b texture first, and then try to apply the divider texture, WC won't properly overwrite the string that stores the texture name, so it still reads the texture as divider1b.
A hack way to overcome this problem is to first change the texture into something completely different, (like wizmet1_2,) and then applying the divider texture.
The proper way to solve it, (besides haxx0ring WC or using GTKR instead,) is to rename the divider texture in the wad so it's named dividera1</y> or something like that.
You should make sure that there are no texture names in your wads that are such that you get another valid texture name if you append some more letters to it.
Right, No Underline
#979 posted by czg [80.202.219.77] on 2004/01/20 17:42:11
dividera1 then...
Eh?
#980 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/21 07:12:49
dividera1
Bah.
#981 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/21 07:13:21
Just checking since you closed the tags wrong.
You Could Also Have RTFM
#982 posted by czg [80.202.219.77] on 2004/01/21 12:02:52
http://www.celephais.net/board/sit...
Though, I didn't do that either, so I guess you're clear.
Help
#983 posted by leviathan [151.203.37.161] on 2004/01/21 12:54:28
Working on a map with terrain. I used vertex manipulation, and there were no errors, according to "check for problems".
However, when i compiled, i got a large amount of brush with duplicate plane errors, and when i play the map there are rocks where there are not supposed to be rocks.
Is there an easy way to fix this error?
Can Only Guess...
#984 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/21 13:02:24
Importing the .map file back into your editor will show up the dodgy brushes & you can fix them.
I'm guessing you're using WC... the 'check for problems' is normally only useful for missing textures, mismatched targets or unrecognised entities etc.
ANSWER QUICK!
#985 posted by czg [80.202.219.77] on 2004/01/21 14:13:57
I would like to know for sure if qbsp for q1 starts the same way as q3map does, with splitting the map along each, uh, axial plane before splitting by the rest of the geometry.
MapSpy
#986 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2004/01/21 17:04:36
I think MapSpy will help you track down and/or fix duplicate planes. Also, QERadiant has a plugin that fixes duplicate planes. Very handy.
Duplicate Planes
#987 posted by Scragbait [65.92.13.69] on 2004/01/22 17:40:29
I get that error message too. I don't notice problems in the map though. It is annoying though and I wish I knew what caused it. I don't do booleans. I use the clip tool occasionally and I use vertex manipulation and face splitting a fair bit.
I have another error that won't do away. Using Check for Problems I get this: Solid Entity (func_door) is empty. Go to Error shows nothing and the Fix Problem doesn't remove it either.
But both these issues aren't stopping me from moving on. Just curious.
Great To Download The Cube Engine
#988 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/01/22 19:55:51
but how do I turn vieuw?
How To Turn Vieuw?
#989 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/01/22 22:18:39
Uses mouse.
Scraggy...
#990 posted by distrans [203.36.15.126] on 2004/01/22 22:20:16
Ya, it's a phantom door that appears after some operations in Worldcraft.
If you get the error message, hit "go to error", the 0,0,0 point should now be centered, place your cursor over the origin point... if it goes red it means at some stage you've generated a phantom door as big as the grid. Hit delete. No more problem.
Hm...
#991 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/01/22 22:33:58
in gtkradiant, after manipulation vertices alot, sometimes, i will re make a flat face (which had been split up into two triangles, intead of a square) but gtkr won't recombine the two triangles itself. what i have to do it move the brush a bit, then gtkr gets rid of it. maybe that's what a duplicate plane is?
Q2
#992 posted by . [172.128.119.74] on 2004/01/23 01:09:49
Does anyone have the Q2 wad, or know of a working link online?
Q1 Tool Tips
#993 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.121] on 2004/01/23 09:39:11
I've put together a simple document that might help Q1 mappers or players when they have problems with the build tools or engine.
It's available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... .
Any comments are welcome.
Does My Bsp Has The Flu?
#994 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/01/23 13:54:42
well, this is new to me.
the txbsp compiler tells me:
healing degenerate
or do my healthpacks get hostile?
& thanx for the error message document.
If That Warning
#995 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.44] on 2004/01/23 15:01:17
is all you get while compiling your maps, consider yourself lucky ...
It's a non-critical warning and can be safely ignored. I've added it to my ToolTips in the next version.
Thank You Bengt!
#996 posted by glassman [81.128.208.223] on 2004/01/23 16:19:19
This info is very useful. The MAP_CLIPNODES limit error where there is no leak can usually be solved ( as czg pointed out) by adding large clip brushes to areas that no one is ever going to go, rather than changing architecture.
I'm Glad You Like It
#997 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.9] on 2004/01/23 17:22:56
I've now updated it to v0.02 with more info including the clipbrush tip.
Bengt
#998 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/23 17:44:20
You rock! Thanks!
Duplicate Planes, A Personal Theory
#999 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.167] on 2004/01/23 18:02:32
I notice that this error usually occurs on brushes that I have manipulated individual vertices on. Is it possible that when this happens, it is because the vertex manipulation creates two seperate areas on the same brush that lie on the same plane and thus the space between the brushes is concaved and the engine or compiler cant split this brush into acceptable triagulated data?
Er
#1000 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.167] on 2004/01/23 18:05:21
that should be, 'the space between the planes'
Lightning
#1001 posted by Fire Reign [69.33.61.18] on 2004/01/24 16:02:36
Hello everyone, I am currently working on my 6th map and I need a little help. Can anyone here advise me step by step on how to create a trigger lightning? The way I plan on making it is when u hit a button and the lightning shoots out (like a trap).
Thank you for your help :)
Fire Reign
#1002 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2004/01/24 17:14:33
Have you tried this? http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr...
If not, try it. That's probably described about as well as I can do it.
Distrans!
#1003 posted by Scragbait [65.92.11.109] on 2004/01/27 17:43:47
Your fix worked!
Give me a new contact when you can. I've got a beta almost thru vis. I can't wait to finish it and seal it in the can. 2nd map is progressing.
My Pleasure Friend...
#1004 posted by distrans [203.36.15.126] on 2004/01/27 23:16:05
I'm back at work, yaaaay!
I'm sending the e3m1 wad to Leviathan tomorrow, along with the progress bsps for start, e1m1 and e3m2, so I'll CC: you into the mail
Maping Standards Q1
#1005 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.168] on 2004/01/30 01:58:46
Quake gamers have the same problem, mapping standards. New types of map items added have no real standards in spq or dm levels. So, you can get these maps/mods combos from said designer with some cool goodies, but unusable with your favorate mods, q1/q2 mission pack, Killer quake pack, Ultimate weapons mod, just to name a few. Since, they have some special weapons, items, monsters, etc that makes them unplayable with anything but the mod that comes with the level. So, you just play the level/mod combo in god mode for some good action and eye candy. Or for that matter, as a level made for specific mod and can't be used for any other mod.
At the other end, you have the vanilla quake level with no special goodies that work with all mods. We all love these levels, but having the goodies like flamethrower and freezethrower as ground pickups are just plain fun.
With mapping standards between mod makers and mappers, you could have the middle ground. So, I'v decided to make up a list of standard map items i'm aware of. It will list the title and description of what they do and maybe damage level. For now, here some first thoughts:
weapon_flamethrower
weapon_plasma_cannon
weapon_freezethrower
weapon_gatlinggun
item_rune
random_rune(dm)
random_powerup(dm)
proximity_mine(dm)
plasma_mine(dm)
Also, I found something called "cut scene construction kit" out of an old mod as another possible standard. Give it some thought for a while. I'll post the URL at a later date, maybe a cross post at quake stanards.
as
as
If You've Had Problems
#1006 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.237] on 2004/01/30 05:54:37
using the old bsp2prt utility, I've now added that functionality to my BspInfo utility. It has large capacity and generates a more accurate .prt file with fewer leafs/portals which helps vis.
I think I've also found the cause of the elusive CutNodePortals_r: New portal was clipped away warning in qbsp and added coordinates to help finding the problem spot. It seems to be the same cause as many other qbsp-related problems; tiny brush misalignments.
You'll find the updated tool versions at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Hmm
#1007 posted by Vondur [62.181.40.126] on 2004/01/30 06:09:49
i've got some prob
i'm making map in gtkradiant, and when i compile it with q3map2 it finds phantom leak (tho, the map has no any holes, i'm sure).
but, q1 compilers after convertiong map to q1 format, compile it with no probs.
anyone know any workarounds for that?
maybe some util that will process .map file for error brushes or something? some kind of .map file refresh utility?
Hmmmm
#1008 posted by Vondur [62.181.40.126] on 2004/01/30 06:11:21
maybe that bengt's new qbsp might help, because i started to get 3 cutnodeportals errors in a row....
Vondur
#1009 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/01/30 07:31:01
Does the portal file get created & vis run in q3map2? If so I wouldn't worry too much about it - the bsp part of q3map2 always seems to report leaks to phantom entities in my maps but it doesn't stop it from vising & working ok.
I presume you've tried to load the pointfile into gtkr.
AguirRe Question
#1010 posted by [Jimbo] [65.161.73.251] on 2004/01/30 15:10:51
How hard would it be to add dubsp type
functionality to your bsp progs?
(ie compile HL/Hammer maps for Q1)
How much of a difference is there between
HL .map and Q1 .map formats?
Glassman
#1011 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/30 17:50:03
yeah, q3map2 vises and lights map fine.
i think it's some q3map b0rkage or something indeed. good thing that q1 compilers eat this .map fine, this is what important :)
i just worry a bit about that phantom leak, but seems like i shouldn't.
AguirRe
#1012 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/30 18:14:43
well, i was trying to fix that cutnodeportals thingy using coords that qbsp printed. well, it pointed to some spot in the void. no misaligned brushes nearby... there are some edge manipulated brushes tho, but they're all aligned to the grid properly... when i edited some nearby brushes, reported spot coordinates moved slightly, but still coords are in the void...
Vondur
#1013 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.19] on 2004/01/30 19:45:28
CutNodePortals warnings can be pretty tricky to fix, especially if they're in hulls 1/2. I assume that this is your case and that's why you get coordinates that are not near any edges/vertices.
If you remember my ramblings about the expanded brushes, you'll have to visualize this expansion and try to imagine where the brush junctions might be then and then track back to which real brush it might be.
I've done this extensivley for a couple of days and it can be rather time-consuming to track down the CutNodePortals warnings for hulls 1/2, but so far I've managed to fix them.
It should be noted that AFAIK, they're still non-critical warnings; you probably don't have to fix them. They might be regarded as potential problem spots.
If you need more help, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see what I can do.
[Jimbo]
#1014 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.19] on 2004/01/30 19:58:00
I've thought about this myself, I have the source for DuBSP so it's more of a decision whether I want to add and maintain this functionality in my versions.
IIRC there were a number of issues to consider regarding map file format, wads and even an extra crouching hull(?). There is also the problem with testing; I don't have or use Hammer myself.
I dismissed the idea then, I might take a look into it again as I see there are a number of Hammer mappers. No promises though ...
Then there's the question if Riot's going to maintain DuBSP or he's through with it. Maybe he could answer that.
Hm...
#1015 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/01/31 00:15:10
wouldn't it be easier to make a seperate program to simply convert hl maps to q1 map format like sleepwalkR's mapconv.exe does for q3/q2 to q1? that way you don't have to worry about any of the ducking hulls and such, it seems more straight forward that way...
mind you, i really don't know anything about that... :P
Aguirre
#1016 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/31 02:55:09
yeah, i generally ignore this warning. i just thought that maybe for some reason these tiny brush misalignments can cause q3map2 generate phantom leak. so i hoped that by fixing this warning q3map2 will start compiling my map w/o errors. but as glassman said, i can ignore and that q3map's phantom leaks too. well, for me qbsp output is much more important of course, so while everything is ok there, there's no need to worry much ;)
Necros
#1017 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.41] on 2004/01/31 05:30:45
That's a good idea. I've already in my ConvMap utility the ability to convert Q2 map format into Q1 (similar to mapconv).
There's an additional problem here though. Hammer (like QuArK) can probably generate more variants of texture positioning than the standard Q1 map format can handle.
This means that either there still needs to be changes in the compilers to accommodate a new format or the conversion must go via the QuArK ETP format.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Vondur
#1018 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.41] on 2004/01/31 05:31:54
Can you please confirm which hull the warning appeared in?
I Need Hammer Source Maps
#1019 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.101] on 2004/01/31 08:01:08
and corresponding wads (zipped, please) to test a quick fix I've just made for my compilers. It looks promising on the few Hammer maps I have.
At this time, it only enables my compilers to interpret the Hammer map files (with its native texture definitions), wads must manually be converted into WAD2s using e.g. TexMex and there's no support for extra hulls or other frills. I hope this is not a big problem.
Since [Jimbo] and MisYu have showed interest in this issue, maybe you could send me some test material?
AguirRe
#1020 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/31 08:59:19
here goes the paste from qbsp output:
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (428 2400 -800)
---- WriteBSPFile ----
It's In Hull 2
#1021 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.198] on 2004/01/31 09:26:05
as I hoped, that's why it's more difficult to fix. My usual method is to look in the nearby area for brushes with non-axial planes and delete them and rebuild to see when the warning disappears (or changes). As I said, it can be quite time-consuming ...
Thanks for the info.
Aguirre
#1022 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/01/31 10:31:22
the prob is, the whole map is built mostly with brushes with non-axial planes ;)
anyway, i'll ignore this warning
AguirRe
#1023 posted by [Jimbo] [65.161.73.251] on 2004/01/31 10:45:26
I emailed you a link to a zipped rmf map and
wad.
Let me know if the link works.
Got It
#1024 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.104] on 2004/01/31 10:53:42
Please don't include the rmf files as I can't open them anyway (I don't have Hammer).
Heh,
#1025 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/01/31 17:19:10
vondur, you don't need to worry at all about that. call me sloppy, but on average per map, i get about 2 dozen of those warnings... :P
Yes
#1026 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.235.190] on 2004/01/31 18:18:39
RPG100B1 had at least one, and maybe two cutnodeportals warnings.
Strange Bug
#1027 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.118.182] on 2004/01/31 18:20:29
I found a strange effect/bug.
I launched quake, then started e2m5 map, after that I started my sm57_pulsar_se map, and I saw that one texture was replaced by another one through all the map. I restarted quake and this effect dissapeared.
But now I know, every time I start e1m5 before sm57_pulsar_se one texture changes.
Anyone knows why?
I Think...
#1028 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/01/31 18:41:01
..it's because one of the textures in your map shares the same name with one in e2m5. It's a bug in standard GLQuake, is that what you're using?
The one in e2m5 has the same name so GLQ thinks it's the same one and doesn't reload it; just loads the old one from its cache.
Its Not A Bug
#1029 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2004/01/31 21:10:56
its a "feature"
Yeah!
#1030 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/01/31 21:39:36
it gives replay value! never play the same level twice!
Necros
#1031 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/01 03:18:27
the only reason i started worrying was inability of q3map2 to compile the map properly. but ppl explained me that i shouldn't worry about that :)
Pulsar
#1032 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/01 03:19:54
yeah, what xen said.
use fitzquake, it has this bug removed.
http://celephais.net/fitzquake/fil...
Thanx
#1033 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.241] on 2004/02/01 16:10:09
I used glquake, simply it's the first time I saw this bug. Thanx for info.
vondur: I already have fitzquake, but it doesn't work with my videocard (voodoo2 12 mb)
JellyFish Orb?
#1034 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/01 22:23:36
I just downloaded FizQuake, and it works great!
Then I tried it on my own convertion, in which I have changed the Enforcer for a selfmade Orb.
And although it works good in normal Quake, I found my Orb back as a shapeless jellyfish in FizQuake.
I have seen this before with MercBabe, which I had converted from Malice.
Whatever happened to the texture shape?
Actually
#1035 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2004/02/01 22:50:45
i found that most every engine except standard glQuake displayed the malice models incorrectly, when running the TC itself.
Er...
#1036 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/01 22:58:43
does fitzquake mesh the models? maybe that's why?
MadFox
#1037 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.99] on 2004/02/02 05:52:23
Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips (section Engine Problems) http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Meshing Models...
#1038 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/02/02 17:33:46
fitzquake meshes models the same way glquake does. In both cases, there is a danger of the mesh being mismatched to the mdl (becuase of a model replacement in a mod.) I eventually plan on dealing with this problem.
Well, The Easiet Solution
#1039 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/02 17:36:55
is of course, to make fitzquake remesh the models everytime it loads. it doesn't take very long to do, so most people won't even notice it.
Vondur
#1040 posted by glassman [81.128.147.107] on 2004/02/03 12:11:34
If you're still worried about your phantom q3map2 leak (post #1007) there's a thread on q3w that might relate.
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/For...
Suggests upgrading to v2.5.12.
Too Many EFRAGS
#1041 posted by Scragbait [209.226.65.58] on 2004/02/03 12:53:19
I heard it said that this could be caused by improper placement of torches (or flames) partially within brushes. Are there other potential causes of this error as well? Does the flame model problem sound correct? I'd like to get rid of this error message as my map is approaching completion.
Scragbait
#1042 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.158] on 2004/02/03 14:57:17
For a quick explanation, take a look in my Q1 ToolTips, Engine Problems section.
For more details, check out post #729 in this thread.
AguiRe
#1043 posted by Scragbait [65.93.173.251] on 2004/02/03 17:13:44
I sent you an email regarding E2M1a - it's fully vised! Your myrealbox didn't work. The mail I sent had no attachments but a CnP of the vis log. If you have a working address, I can forward it there.
Glassman
#1044 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/03 17:25:00
well, i tried 2.5.12, still no luck. entity still leaks. well, fek it cuz the map vises and lights properly. and it compiles fine in q1 compilers, this is what's important isn't it? :)
thanks for the help though!
Re: #1043
#1045 posted by distrans [203.36.15.126] on 2004/02/03 18:07:11
/me frantically opens Outlook
Scragbait
#1046 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.117] on 2004/02/03 18:30:03
Hopefully, you've got mail.
Oh For Heaven's Sake...
#1047 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/04 19:53:23
So I've got WC3.3 and I want to map for Q1 but with n33t stuff like radiosity and texture-based lighting. Can someone explain all this new-fangled mumbo-jumbo to me or point me at a FAQ or something?
Cheers
AguiRe
#1048 posted by Scragbait [65.92.11.13] on 2004/02/04 22:26:48
No mail.
Distrans and Lev - I just sent the zip. Hope it reaches you guys.
Sorry readers for off-line discussion.
Weird
#1049 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.97] on 2004/02/05 05:45:06
I've just re-sent it, I hope you'll get it now. I can't see how my MyRealBox account could prevent me from reaching you, though. Both my account seem to be working. And I don't get any rejects sending the email to you.
You haven't changed email address lately?
LTH
#1050 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2004/02/05 08:45:09
http://www.orbiter-productions.com...
that site has pretty much all you need for editing in Hammer... giving you the option of radiosity, surface lighting, coloured radiosity and surface lighting and more :)
Bah
#1051 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/05 14:47:24
Cheers Starbuck. Blah, I already have all of that setup, I was hoping there was a more elegant solution.
LTH, Im Good At Elegant Solutions :)
#1052 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2004/02/05 16:15:12
but i dont map :/
Tigger-On, Necros [and lots of others]...seem pretty clued up. im sure someone here will be able to help soon.....or else email some guys individually.
Um...
#1053 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/05 19:13:59
there's the site by riot i think, with the q1rad program. he does a good job of explaining how the radiosity works there, i believe...
Hammer Support
#1054 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.169] on 2004/02/06 05:59:07
(Valve 220 format) is now available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Any comments are welcome.
Ah Sweet
#1055 posted by starbuck [82.33.90.202] on 2004/02/06 06:07:43
you'll still need riot's wadconv utility from the site I linked though. Looks like there no longer is any reason not to use aguirRe's bsp and vis.
He'p Meh!
#1056 posted by Morfans [217.137.131.40] on 2004/02/09 04:31:32
Just a quicky. Does anyone have the .map of start.bsp? If so can they please mail it to me. Thanks. morfans@planetquake.com
If not I'll try converting it... :-)
You Could Try Decompiling It
#1057 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/09 08:38:25
.
Scragbait
#1058 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.171] on 2004/02/09 16:28:44
Is your email down or are you just busy? I've sent you four emails the last couple of days without any response.
MIRC Problem
#1059 posted by Zwiffle [68.78.49.186] on 2004/02/10 16:10:49
OK, can't connect to gamesnet, saw that there was a message about moving to gamesurge or something. Will that be up soon cuz I don't have it on my server list, and if it's already up how do I access that server so I can speedmap ? :O
IRC
#1060 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/10 16:40:05
GamesNET has effectively moved/renamed to GamesUrge. More details: http://www.gamesurge.net/
The new irc server is irc.gamesurge.net . Your IRC client (mIRC) should have an option for adding a new server.
Gamesurge
#1061 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/10 20:11:25
ActiveGamer.OH.US.GameSurge.net 6667 (Columbus, OH)
Extremity.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Fremont, CA )
GameWarriors.NJ.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Matawn, NJ )
Geneva.CH.EU.GameSurge.net 6667 (Geneva, Switzerland)
Lausanne.CH.EU.GameSurge.net 6667 (Lausanne, Switzerland )
Netfire.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX )
NuclearFallout.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
Oktagone.WA.AU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Perth, Western Australia)
Osgamers.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX)
Prothid.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
RedPhive.BC.CA.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Vancouver, BC)
Slim.NY.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (New York, NY )
Tukikohta.FI.EU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Tampere, Finland)
Vigilance.CA.US.GameSurge.net 6660,6667,7000 (Sacramento, CA)
Shambler Blinded My Pak-file
#1062 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/11 13:18:24
While adding my maps to a PAK-file, it suddenly
appears all the light has gone out in one of my maps.
Strange because apart of it there is normal light.
Does anyone knows why Shambler has grasped all the light out of the pak-file???
Yeah Shambler
#1063 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/11 14:00:11
You big fat northern bully, give him his lights back.
Editor Help...
#1064 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/11 15:16:23
is there anyway to select all coplanar faces in gtkradiant without doing it manually?
No
#1065 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/11 15:18:45
afaik
but with the newest 1.5 you can select multiple faces, but there are some limitations
I Don't Understand.
#1066 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/11 16:35:53
you already can select multiple faces with 1.3.12 (what i'm using currently) and have been able to since i started using gtkr...
also, i wanted to know if any who has been using the new 1.4.whatever thought it was worth to upgrade to it...
is the wierdness with the face texture tool still there?
Also,
#1067 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/11 17:27:19
when i map in gtkr, i like using the "common" textures, those are set up to be transparent and are very nice and clean and obvious.
i'm talking about the clip and trigger textures for q3 btw... however, i don't include the textures in my wad since you can't see these brushes anyway.
my question is, besides saying at startup that there are missing textures, are there any other ill effects?
Necros
#1068 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/11 18:13:24
Some of the engines will freak out. Just include a dummy texture with the apropriate name.
Which Engines?
#1069 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/11 18:31:26
nt
Necros
#1070 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/02/11 20:31:48
Its nice to be as efficient as possible (and so I can see why you'd want to exclude textures that aren't displayed from your wad file) but really... when you're talking about only a few kilobytes per texture of wasted space...
I'd rather put those textures in the wad file than make users put up with annoying error messages at runtime, and possibly cause unforseen weirdness or errors in other engines.
Have some fun with it and make your own clip/trigger textures, if nothing else you might give someone a laugh when they open up the BSP in texmex to view the textures.
By the way, its easy to set up a simple shader for your own clip/trigger textures (or any other textures for that matter) and make them semi-transparent or whatever (I like to do this with my water textures in gtkr).
#1071 posted by . [172.143.158.28] on 2004/02/11 20:41:33
/me remembers Frib's nudie tex's.
Necros
#1072 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/12 01:16:41
i meant multiple face selecton with one mousedrag, not by clicking on each face.
.
#1073 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 01:19:49
Frib: i suppose... i guess i'll do it... clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something...
Vondur: i see. that sounds rather usefull too!
QuArK Try...
#1074 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/12 06:12:56
I've made a try yesterday evening with QuArK 6.4.0.. It's a very great software, very usefull to import BSP, MAP, WAD files, etc.. ... and to create these one also... (I made a little try with the default starting map, and a test using some differents brushes..)
I also try to import a BSP file, but a warning appears during the importation.. there was some missing WAD texture into my library..
So, is there a turnaround to avoid this problem and obtain the full WAD texture file from the imported BSP map ??? Or do I need to create myself the missing brushes and add them into my WAD texture files ???
Err
#1075 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/12 08:33:28
clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something
I thought normal GLQuake would give a cache mismatch error or something when it tries to load a texture that is a different size but has the same name of a texture it already has loaded?
BSP Extraction Warning
#1076 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/12 09:03:41
So, if I make some modifications into a BSP extracted map, with such warnings, without re-brush the failing part, does the re-build BSP file will be OK or not ??
#1077 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/12 09:49:07
What you say??
Yes, Rpg
#1078 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 11:49:34
but only if there was a map loaded before it.
...ack! i think i'll just stick to not including the textures and being an asshole!!! argh!
Or...
#1079 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/12 12:15:51
Maybe you should just include the textures like everyone else??
I just did a test, and when I added a new 64x64 texture to a map, the .bsp size went up by 5.47 kilobytes (5604 bytes). So for both a clip and trigger texture, you would be saving less than 11kb. I don't think that will have much impact on in-game performance, especially since you're already designing maps with four digit r_speeds. And you're only saving about two seconds of download time for a modem user. Honestly, why go through the hassle of removing the textures and risk having some engines crash when it's having such little impact in the first place? I can assure you that if the increased performance and smaller filesize had a big impact that id Software would have done it on the original maps.
FINE!!!@!@!$@4253
#1080 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 12:26:21
i hope your happy. i'm going to pout for the rest of the day!
... :P
Mission Accomplished
#1081 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/12 12:58:18
Today's todo list:
* Wank. (check)
* Piss off necros. (check)
* Build this room in QERadiant.
* Tell necros that "your" is not the proper contraction of "you are."
* Wank again.
2/5 so far for today.
Bitches!
#1082 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 13:13:01
So You've Wanked
#1083 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 13:13:34
twice already?
(should have caught that before... :P)
Oh...
#1084 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/12 13:14:36
wait...
gah... it's too early... ugh
AguirRe
#1085 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/12 13:16:51
so as i got there is no antilight in your light util, right?
Vondur
#1086 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.46] on 2004/02/12 15:03:02
No coloured lighting or antilights planned ATM.
AguirRe
#1087 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.109.40] on 2004/02/12 16:19:37
will the antilights support be planned any time later?
Heh
#1088 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/12 19:52:44
Or do you atleast plan to plan to plan on antlights?
Antilights
#1089 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/02/12 20:12:13
Antilights are pretty useful sometimes, it'd be nice to have them in your light tool someday, aguirRe... its one of the few things I miss when I use your light tool (other than radiosity, hah).
While things like radiosity might not be feasible, antilights are hopefully possible, I hope you'll consider considering planning to plan to add it later :D
Hmmm
#1090 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/13 00:47:39
this is gonna seem strange, but is it possible to map for halflife from gtkradiant?
ie: is there a converter to convert an quake map into an hl map?
Necros
#1091 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/13 03:15:55
there's official hl support for gtkradiant
as for the converting i'm not sure
Antilights
#1092 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/13 03:17:35
yes, they're very useful especially when u use ambient light, and you wanna make id style arch exit leading into the blackness. it's impossible ot make this blackness with ambient light enabled and with no antilights :) i met this problem now, so i'm puzzled how to solve it...
Yes...
#1093 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/13 04:58:21
i've done HL mapping with gtkradiant. It basically works.
Heh
#1094 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/13 14:28:23
awesome, got the editor set up for it... now, can someone point me towards good hl compilers?
Necros
#1095 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/13 15:42:21
somewhere there?
http://collective.valve-erc.com/
Hellllp?
#1096 posted by the silent [82.84.70.136] on 2004/02/14 07:22:07
Can anyone help me solve this? Last night I tried to replay after a long time 2 mapping masterpieces such as Insomnia and Contract Revoked... both of them made quake crash as soon as I entered the final slipgate to get to the 1st map.... I run MhQuake on a 700 Mhz Amd with 256 mgRam and a Geforce2mx on Windows 2000... When MhQuake Loads up, usually gives these messages (they do not harm gameplay, though, or so it seems....):
unknown command "gl_flashblend"
unknown command "r_maxsurfs"
unknown command "r_maxedges"
Anyone got a clue? Thanx...
...
#1097 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/14 12:29:38
that's because r_maxsurfs and maxedges are for software only (czg put those in so that it would work for both)
and gl_flashblend was probably removed from mhquake (it's that orange sphere that replaces the dynamic light. most people like it off, with the regular dynamic light instead, and it looks like czg put that in there to turn it off by default.
Q1 Map Tools For Radiant?
#1098 posted by FaTbOy! [66.32.66.20] on 2004/02/14 14:59:05
Ive seen links to these on peekaboom's site and on several PQ LOTW pages but all are dead. Id really like to get ahold of these tools so I can use one editor for all my quake mapping needs. :)
Thanks! FaT.
Basic Antilight Support
#1099 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.232] on 2004/02/14 15:55:37
is in testing phase and can hopefully be included in the next Light release. So far it looks good.
It doesn't support all variants that TyrLite does, but I hope it's sufficient. There's no anti-sunlight and it behaves like the TyrLite -nominlimit option is always enabled.
Great!
#1100 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.118.53] on 2004/02/14 16:16:44
looking forward for the release of the next version of your Light tool
Q2 Mapping
#1101 posted by Pokec [194.249.48.122] on 2004/02/14 16:18:10
First of, thanks to Scampie for telling me about this board - a safe warm place indeed. :) Anyway, I'd like to do some Q2 mapping but have a question and a request before I can start moving the brushes around:
Question: which editor should I use? Unless Worldcraft supports some stuff Queradinat/GTKRadiant doesn't, I'd like to stay with one of the former ones since I used GTKRad when I was playing around with RTCW. Which one of them is more suitable for Q2? GTKRadiant is supposed to be recommended, but it crashed on me only after loading the textures... Is Queradiant more stable?
Request: The best way to learn mapping is IMHO with checking other people's work. Scampie sadly doesn't have sources of his Q2 maps available on his site nor are there any Q2 sources at LvL Open Source, so I'm asking if there are any other sites I should check or even if there is anyone out there willing to share his/her work with me?
Thank you.
Q2 Editors
#1102 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/14 18:38:15
I suggest QERadiant. It's what I use. If you can get GTKRadiant to work with Q2, then use that.
Q2 Map Sources
#1103 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/14 18:42:05
I just remembered that SleepwalkR has released the source for two of his Q2DM maps. Click on "Projects."
http://rem.fov120.com/
GTKRadiant...
#1104 posted by FaTbOy! [66.32.66.20] on 2004/02/14 20:01:46
Has a build specifically for quake2, I just finished downloading it from radiant's website.
I Love Google!
#1105 posted by FaTbOy! [66.32.66.20] on 2004/02/14 20:31:26
It hit me like a thunderbolt as soon as I saw SleepwalkR's name above I knew it was he that peekaboom had mentioned on his website. Alas the links on the site are not working but a google search turned up files on source forge. woohoo! I feel like Homer Simpson after eating a dozen doughnuts. Mmmm...Doughnuts...
Thanks! FaT.
Thanx A Lot Necros....
#1106 posted by the silent [82.84.25.39] on 2004/02/15 04:34:07
... you've been very kind... But, does anyone know why Quake crashes when I enter the slipgates? I just can't seem to begin the maps....
I Have No Idea...
#1107 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/15 11:29:35
but try this.
when you get to then end of czg07a, instead of going through the teleporter, type in the console: "changelevel czg07b" and see if that crashes quake. (it will have the same effect as going through the endlevel trigger, but you won't see your stats.)
Wierd Bug In Fitzquake...
#1108 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/15 13:23:24
running fitzquake in 1024x768, with gl_clear 1
when i load my map there is nothing.
it's completly gray. i can still move around, and the world is there (i can hear my self pushing buttons and monsters firing at me) but i just can't see anything. turning off gl_clear gives hom.
i understand that the map is unvised and pretty big with lots of wpoly (12000 in one area) but i was able to load the map in tyrann's glquake. is there a max wpoly limit in fq or something? :P
vising the map did fix the fq problem... i'm still confused why one engine was able to load it while the other wasn't...
i also noticed a fairly significant decrease in frame render time in fq as opposed to tyrglquake... fq was doing the same 5000 wpoly scene at around 14ms whilst tyrglquake did the same scene at around 25ms.
what's with that big discrepancy? is it even larger on slower machines?
whatever you did to fitzquake, metlslime, i like it!
Necros:
#1109 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/15 13:29:25
please mail me an unvised (and zipped) version of that bsp; i'd like to check out the bug you mention.
As for why it runs faster on high-poly scenes, this has to do with me rewriting the renderer last version. I'm glad to hear that it worked.
You've Got Mail, Metl
#1110 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/15 14:34:38
Metlslime
#1111 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.158] on 2004/02/15 17:00:23
In some maps I get a peculiar FQ message "Backup past 0" when moving in certain areas, what does it mean?
I've Always Took It As An Article Of Faith
#1112 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.204] on 2004/02/15 17:26:21
that QuakeI doesn't support multitextures on single brushes. Never thought it to be a big deal nor necessary though UnReal based games do (Dues Ex, yummmm) support it. And then, just a moment ago I was fiddling around with a decompiled version of Mr Elusive's Start map for Tale of Abbot's Rune, trying to figure out how he set up those staged combats, and I stumble upon this,
{ //brush 2
( -832 8192 8192 ) ( -832 -8192 8192 ) ( -832 8192 -8192 ) sky4 0 -32 0 1 1
( -808 -8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 180 1 1
( 8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( 8192 -8192 32 ) ( 8192 8192 32 ) ( -8192 -8192 32 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( 8192 8192 64 ) ( 8192 -8192 64 ) ( -8192 -8192 64 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( -7406 3522 8192 ) ( 7703 -2813 8192 ) ( -7406 3522 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( -4340 7059 8108 ) ( 2034 -8033 8108 ) ( -2856 7686 -8196 ) rock5_2 0 -32 0 1 1
}
And my faith in the sigularity of Quake surfacing is shattered into a million atoms.
I tested this out with an attempt of my own.
// brush 6
{
( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 240 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) ( 128 256 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 192 0 ) ( 128 192 0 ) ( 128 192 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 -48 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
// brush 7
{
( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) ( 0 64 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 -48 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
}
And the compiled version did as I expected, no surface textures for the offending sides. So I have come to one canonical conclusion. If you are Mr Elusive, the rule do not apply.
Okay, I Think I Have It Figured Out
#1113 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.204] on 2004/02/15 17:33:58
The decompilation is a faithful reproduction of the QBSP file (I use the Q3 BSPC-GUI for Windows 95/NT which never adds much glut when I decompile my own maps) and not of the map. So the liberties taken are in the compilation process. Whew, my faith is restored unless someone has more to add,
Map Files
#1114 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.30] on 2004/02/15 17:41:08
don't look nice in msgboard format ...
Anyway, having different textures on a brush is absolutely no problem for Q1. As long as they're of the same type (solid/sky/liquid), they won't disappear or otherwise act strangely.
However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine. This is probably a bspc (the decompiler) bug that normally needs to be fixed manually.
If you check out my ConvMap tool, you'll find a fixup mode that will help compensating for this bug.
Thanks AguiRe
#1115 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.160] on 2004/02/15 17:54:38
Good to know and I'll definitely check your tools out. Could the problem with my own attempt be the result of keeping the Q3 .500000 scaling? Perhaps, this is why I have had this misconception for some time.
#1116 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.119.195] on 2004/02/15 17:59:32
However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine.
I had a map where I used a lot of brushes with solid and sky textures on them. There wasn't any problem with engine (even with dosquake). Only rockets couldn't pass through such sky textures, they acted like solid textures.
I hope you understand what I tried to explain :)
There's A Way
#1117 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/15 18:25:12
to get a liquid brush with solid textures... i'm not quite sure how to do it, but i think as long as the last texture on the brush in the .map file is a liquid, the bsp program will treat it as a liquid of that type.
i was experimenting with this in my most recent map, and i might go for it with an animated texture. the only downside (but this could also be a plus) is that the unliquid textures of the liquid brush are not fullbright, so you need to light them as normal.
I Think That Helps
#1118 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.89] on 2004/02/15 18:27:12
I always knew it was possible in Q2 (with the edition of the surface inspector) and Q3, but I assumed the problems I've run into with Q1 multisurfacing was inherent in the engine.
Q2 Mapping
#1119 posted by Pokec [194.249.48.122] on 2004/02/15 18:55:52
@R.P.G. & FaTbOy!: thank you for your feedback. It looks like the latest version of GTKRad-classic hates my system - I tried with version 1.3.13 and it seems to be working well. I've also mailed SleepwalkR and hopefully he'll fix the links, because id's base1 source isn't exactly what I was expecting in terms of build quality. Or am I missing something?
1. Is it worthless to clip brushes that are sticking out of playable area? I mean, doesn't this have a bad effect on performance?
2. I heard sky texture can be used in similar way as caulk in Quake 3. Is this true?
3. Should I care about aligning brushes so they fit perfectly like one should do when making Q3 maps? Is there any big difference between Q2 and Q3-mapping in this aspect?
4. Are there any differences between Q2's and Q3's hint brushes?
Trivial Mapping Tip That Could Be Helpful:
#1120 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/15 20:31:32
anyone who watched the demo i recorded of xen's latest speedmap will see i had a lot of trouble getting onto the one func_plat in his map.
the way quake works for the func_plat, is it takes the largest coordinates of the brush and makes a cubic trigger roughly the same size of those coordinates. the reason i had trouble getting onto the plat was because the trigger is square while the brush itself was a triangle, thus, the plat was getting triggered too early before i could get onto the plat.
if you plan to do something like that, you should instead use a func_door and make the trigger yourself so you can control the size of it manually. or make a square lift.
cheers!
this small bit of info brought to you by necros...
Pokec:
#1121 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/02/16 02:28:03
1. Clip brushes have no effect on proformance, they only serve to smooth out areas that may be rough navigating.
2. I suppose it could be... but I'd think it'd be better to use some standard textures and apply 'solid' content and 'nodraw' surface properties.
3. You should always align brushes neatly, yes. This applys for all Quake engines, there is very little differance between them in terms of how your brushes are split up in BSP.
4. There's a few differances I believe, http://test.gamedesign.net/book/vi... shows their use in Q2.
and no, you're not missing anything looking at id's q1 released sources... they really are that bad of mappers... :D
AguirRe:
#1122 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/16 03:44:57
Looking at the source, that's coming from the function that does line traces through bsps. The comment nearby says "shouldn't really happen, but does occasionally." It's also a dprint.
From my quick glance at the code it appears to mean that a trace impacted a wall just behind the start of the trace. In other words, the distance to impact was slightly negative.
Thanks For The
#1123 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.249] on 2004/02/16 06:01:59
info, it usually happens in areas with complex brush shapes.
Another question: If I noclip through a map, why does sometimes something push me up very high as if there was a trigger_push (there isn't)? It's repeatable and very annoying if I try to inspect an area of the map.
It's happened in several engines and it's really weird.
Necros:
#1124 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/02/16 07:57:30
Ahh.. thanks for the tip :)
Thought I could solve it by sticking the button there but it didn't work.. ah well
aguire I've noticed that too.. usually happens above lava, or at least liquids, i've found
Aguire:
#1125 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/16 08:31:55
I think that's quake's "jump up out of liquids" code giving you a bump. But, since there's no gravity, you'll coast upwards forever.
I Haven't Seen
#1126 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.51] on 2004/02/16 10:30:02
that connection with liquids, but next time I'll look for nearby liquid. My suspicion was that it had something to do with odd-angled brushes (or rather, planes), it think I recall it happening just outside tunnels (in the void).
It also doesn't push forever, it just keeps pushing until it thinks I'm high enough and then my pushing down suddenly starts working again. Hopeless fight though ...
There's also that weird phenomenon when in fly mode, suddenly moving speed gets extremely slow (inside map of course). Normally I have to leave fly mode and then back again to regain normal speed.
An Idea For A Ctf Map...
#1127 posted by FaTbOy! [66.245.78.140] on 2004/02/16 10:47:58
A while back there was a thread here arguing which texture set was better Runic or Base. Ever since then I have been pondering building a ctf/tf map in which the two sides can battle it out. The textures would be original Id with the possible inclusion of some from rogue and hipnotic. I am not sure the bases would be identical for each side, might be interesting to mix it up.
I know most people here are DM or SP players but I thought it might be worth running by everyone. So...what do yall think?
Go For It Fatboy
#1128 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.135] on 2004/02/16 11:11:59
I'd like to see it.
Yeah... :-)
#1129 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/02/16 11:42:47
Would be funny
A Question On Entities
#1130 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/16 16:55:31
before i go over that 255 entity limit... :P
what exactly counts as an entity? (not talking about edicts here)
i know that:
-each type of monster (if used) will count as one (so either 1 or 100 shamblers count as one)
-each func_ (other whatever bmodel) counts as one (unlike monsters, each iteration counts as one)
-echo misc item counts as one (like monsters) (includes weapons, ammo, health, etc...)
is there anything i'm missing, or do i have some of those wrong?
Heh,
#1131 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/16 16:56:14
i wrote echo instead of each. too much batch file writing i guess.
Necros
#1132 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.26] on 2004/02/16 17:15:20
have you checked my archived QMap thread? I think there are some explanations of this issue there.
I Really Would Have Checked It
#1133 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/16 17:45:37
but ie keeps crashing when it loads the page. actually, ie crashes whenever i load a big page... it will crash if i opened up the GA thread from post 0...
In The Zip
#1134 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.121] on 2004/02/16 18:15:47
there are also three smaller pages, one for each year. That's what they're for. My old system also crashed the first time I loaded the whole thread.
I Know
#1135 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/16 18:37:54
If IE Still Crashes
#1136 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.33] on 2004/02/16 18:51:45
even with the small pages, try a better browser shell. I can really recommend GreenBrowser, http://www.morequick.com/indexen.h... , I've been running it for months.
It's a free 400k download, just unzip and run, no installation/uninstallation. It uses the IE Favorites and rendering engine so you're still basically running IE.
And I just tried to load the whole QMap thread in GB on my old systems and it works (a bit slow though).
A Few Questions
#1137 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.123] on 2004/02/16 19:09:32
I have been using the Xatrix Wad in my project, and examining the textures in Photoshop I see that there is a great deal of subtexturing (the remainder of high rez to low rez shifting) in the textures that with a little careful tweeking can be made to be visibly clear at lower resolutions.
Of course, most commercial packages have it copy written you are not to modify the product in any form, but at this point, several years after any profit that could be made has been made do the distributors even care what is done with the product in a non-commercial capacity?
Q1rad
#1138 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/17 09:55:43
Okay, so I've got q1rad and a nice surface lights file set up.
1. coloured lighting - how?
2. how do I stop the faces that are surfacelights appearing so much brighter than everything else?
Cheers
Far Concern
#1139 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/17 12:11:10
As I am packing map-files to a PAK-file, I wondered what could be the max limit of a BSP.
At first I stopped mapping, when my bsp reached 1.4Mb but adding winmem16 gave me the oppertunity to go further.
I watched Dissolution Of Eternity, with its Last Bastion of 2.291.536byte
And as it is played under DOS there is no problem.
Now I am here with a map of 2.345.900 and I am concerned it will give an Alloc_hunc error.
(Not for me, but for distributing it in a PAK file)
Hm...
#1140 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/02/17 12:20:15
well, look at it this way,
nesp09 is about 5.8mb and only needed a special engine to run because it had too many monsters.
most of the file size comes from textures anyway, and as long as you keep your textures under 2mb you're fine.
LTH: read the text that riot wrote with his tools it explains everything about q1rad and the lights.
and there's nothing you can do about surfaces of surface lights being bright -- that's the way it works. :\
True, But..
#1141 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/17 12:32:11
I like to distribute a PAK-file.
Not to let people load a special engine.
You are right for the textures, Necros, but also told me diagonal water textures look odd.
So I used animated tex, what drives up the bitecount.
So let me be odd, and ask it again...(?!)
Heh
#1142 posted by Tronyn [24.78.146.107] on 2004/02/17 13:23:35
one of my new maps is nearly 9MB.
of course, I'm getting the hunc_alloc errors :)
Bah
#1143 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/17 18:07:55
Wow
#1144 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.45] on 2004/02/17 22:23:40
That's a huge map/ Of course, if you have to go custom, the executable would take less than another meg. For a map that size, I don't think it would be a bad idea.
Transparent Water In Quake
#1145 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/18 02:11:38
Hello,
I have downloaded the wqbsp165.zip file avalaible on www.annihilator.com/gameediting/fi... web site. The autor ensure transparent water is avalaible with his tool...I made a try with the starting map (adding water) to know how looks like transparent water in Quake... and it doesn't work.. I don't know where the problem comes from... I uses a PC (Atlon 2GHz, 256 Mo RAM, etc.. my PC is a new one buyed less than 3 month), and the QuArK 6.4.0-alpha3 map builder tool... This tool is able to launch QBSP.exe (your release), RVIS.exe and ARGHLITE.exe utilities for BSP build... I try to find more informations in the related text files, but without success...
Is there anybody who can help me to solve the problem please ??
JPLambert
#1146 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/18 03:07:21
there should be a command line option when you compile the map. it should lookd like '-transwater' or something. just run wqbsp.exe /?
and you'll get all available options. or read the readme of this tool.
in the game, to see transparent water you have to enable it via console with command: r_wateralpha 0.3 (where 0.3 is the opacity level from 0 to 1)
gl
Oh
#1147 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/18 03:08:18
and of course you have to use opengl accelerated engine to see the transwater.
Transparent Water In Quake.. Bis
#1148 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/18 03:19:04
OK, I've made a run of qbsp.exe only, and a "-transwater" option doesn't exist... I need to check this again..
Concerning the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option, I'll try to find it this evening...
Furthermore, I think a have an openGL engine: I use fitzquake0.75 from few weeks... (it creates me a glquake directory in each map/pak directory used)
Thanx for the infos..
JPLambert
#1149 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/18 03:39:48
sure there is no -transwater in id's qbsp.exe. it exists either in wqbsp or in bengt's treeqbsp which you can find here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/tre...
Transparent Water...
#1150 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/18 03:55:07
Well, transparent water seems to be included as a default feature in my qbsp version... Perhaps it's only the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option I forgot... I'll retry this evening..If it doesn't work anymore, I'll test bengt's treeqbsp...
Thanx for the link ;-)...
Bye
Yes
#1151 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/18 08:49:39
usually, most engines default to r_wateralpha "1" because most people still don't compile maps for that. it's not something i use either actually. :P
Transparent Water In Fitzquake...
#1152 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/18 09:22:11
In the fitzquake075 readme, it is never talk about the r_wateralpha option... But, it says this engine is based on the source code released by ID software GLQuake: this feature is perhaps already included and not clearly specified...
There is also a "fog" console command that seems to enable/disable a fog "opacity" option. Does anyone known about this ??
Only...
#1153 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/02/18 13:02:35
the three people who read the readme.
About Fog...
#1154 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/19 02:20:34
...I made the try, and it is very interesting to enable fog option (with a value of 0.2 or 0.3)... This generates a foggy environment that increases unsecurity sensation during the game...
Anyway.. is there an easy way to enable the console command at quake start-up imnstead of typing these ones manually ???
...more Precisely...
#1155 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/19 02:30:39
.. is there a solution to enable (for example) fog and r_wateralpha option at start-up to avoid console manipulations before starting the game ???
Thanx..
JPLambert
#1156 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/19 03:08:45
create autoexec.cfg file in your /id1 folder and just write there everything u want like:
+mlook
r_wateralpha 0.3
name JPLambert
sensitivity 10
etc...
Btw
#1157 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/19 03:12:11
personally i have an alias to enable/disable things like shadows/wateralpha/mirrors with one key. because not all the maps support wateralpha and when you run non alpha map it causes HOM like effect on the water so you'll have to disable it. i do that by pressing one key, not by typing it manually every time on console.
my autoexec looks like this:
http://vondur.net/files/autoexec.c...
Autoexec.cfg
#1158 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/19 03:50:21
OK, I've got only a default one... I'm going to make some modifications (like in your autoexec.cfg file) to add options and more binding keys... Thank you for the link...
I think in the future I will required some help again... I'm about to start building my first map based on the egyptian Hatchepsout temple (I think the file will be named Hellchepsout ;-) but I'm not really sure... ).. Perhaps it is a big challenge to start with big map, I will see.... I'm still creating some new textures using some temple photos I found on the web... I hope it will show a great map appearance as real as possible !!!
Bye...
JPLambert
#1159 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/19 04:00:15
building a large map (or open map with huge castle) requires smart brush placement. look for r_speeds. it shouldn't be more than 1000, otherwise the map will be unplayable on weak systems.
About Large Map
#1160 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/19 04:23:37
When you say large map, you told about bsp file size, or about the number of brushes/textures/monsters, etc... it can be found in it ??
And do you really think it still exists "weak systems" today ?? Obsolete PC (like 2 years old PC) are running using at least 1GHz processor and 128 Mo RAM.. or I don't understand what you mean about "weak systems"... What is, for you, a "weak system" ??
Mesh Abuse
#1161 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/19 04:27:51
I screwed with a mesh to make it intersect the stairs brushes to create sand.
http://www.cursesandepithets.com/q...
Is this a horrible abuse or a good idea?
Well
#1162 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/19 04:30:59
under large map i meant the map with high polycount, i.e. a lot of bruses/textures/monsters etc.
under weak systems i meant old puters like pii with voodoo card on board (or w/o gfx accelerator at all). believe me there still are such puters with quake players on them :)
of course it's your choice either to support weak systems or not. personally I've raised my r_speeds ceiling from 700 to 1000 recently. but i'm still trying to make r_speeds as low as possible.
Pushplay
#1163 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/19 04:32:20
it's a good idea i think.
Vondur
#1164 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/19 04:45:51
OK, I agree, sure you have a bigger experience than me in this domain, so I will take a particular care to make r_speeds as low as possible... As I am beginner in Quake map building, all good advices are welcomed ...
Thanx again...
Bye
Pushplay
#1165 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/19 13:00:48
Think you've got the compression high enough on that image? ;) Half a meg just for a jpg screenshot...
Anyway, I think that's how most people do it. It's certainly easier. AFAIK you only begin to have problems if you can view it from a distance, in which case you'll begin to have z-fighting and artifacts; especially at lower bits per pixel.
A Question
#1166 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/02/19 15:09:48
By definition an autoexec.cfg is supposed to run automatically right? I can never get them to work in Fitzquake without exec'ing from the console.
Blitz
#1167 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/19 15:11:52
The behaviour should be governed by your quake.rc file... try adding another .cfg file to its list to execute with a name other than 'autoexec.cfg'
Yes
#1168 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/19 15:28:06
the quake.rc file is the only file that really gets run automatically by quake. autoexec and config just get run from quake.rc
here's another one of those useless tips:
if you're making a pak file and want to include special settings, never include an autoexec or config .cfg files because alot of players (myself included) have their own with special commands they like (look at vondurs for example) if you include you're own config and autoexec, you override the player's ones. therefore, to get around this, change the quake.rc to include another .cfg file and put your special settings there.
roar.
That Was A Half Meg?
#1169 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/19 15:59:22
Ooops.
Ok, thanks guys.
A Simple Question
#1170 posted by Tronyn [24.78.146.107] on 2004/02/19 18:59:40
I'm not sure exactly how entities count (one entity per each monster, regardless of the amount of that monster?), but I'm wondering this: Would replacing a bunch of monsters that are triggered to teleport (ie, trigger_teleport, monster_whatever and info_teleport_destination) with func_spawns lower a level's entity count significantly?
Tronyn
#1171 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/19 19:59:38
One edict per monster.
Yes.
Also - there is a limit on how many models one can precache, so having multiple func_x's can hit the engine precache limits, because each counts as a separate precached model.
Clarification
#1172 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/19 20:00:21
One edict per instance of each monster i.e. two scrags plus three soldiers equals five edicts.
Q
#1173 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/02/20 02:34:07
You can tell I've been doing a lot of mapping recently, I'm full of questions.
I set up two portals so that each camera looks away from the other portal. And the two portals aren't looking at each other. Is there something about this setup that would make it not work?
JPG To Texture
#1174 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/20 02:35:33
Hello,
I try to create new textures using some JPG photos (converted in PCX files and added into a wad file, with some changes in resolution, color, dimensions, etc..), and when I test the map, my texture (applied to a wall for example) stay very "big" comparing to the player view... (for example an artefact of some centimeter in real live appear to be meters in quake for the player !!)
How can I avoid this problem ?? And what is the heigh of the player during the game ??
Thanx
JPLambert
#1175 posted by . [172.130.91.41] on 2004/02/20 02:47:05
Are the textures sized down to a multiple of 16? Most wall texe's in Quake are 128x128. Smaller textures are 64x64 (like the larger buttons). So like:
16, 32, 64, 128, 256...
I'm not sure what the largest multiple accepted is, someone else should know. But you can do like this: 32 + 16 = 48 so let's say a certain texture works best at 48 x 16... you get the idea.
Phait
#1176 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/20 03:11:33
Yes. I've sized textures correctly... The map building crashes if the textures sizes are not a multiple of 16.. It happends in my first tests...
But how to apply a correct size to texture (when applied to a brush), in order to have a player view as close as possible to reality?
Thanx
PS: For infos I've extracted the Zerstorer textures and there exist a 384x384 texture ... So
#1177 posted by . [172.164.181.83] on 2004/02/20 03:15:25
Is the texture applied at scale of 1.0? Are you meaning that you want to see more detail upclose instead of pixels? In that case you'd have to shrink the texture, but you'll still see pixels, just probably not as big.
Phait
#1178 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/20 05:26:12
Ah... I didn't see this feature of texture scaling.. I'm going to take a look at the Help file, it certainly has further informations I missed...
Thanx
Bye..
Antilights, WAD3 Support
#1179 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.91] on 2004/02/20 06:07:18
and other things are now available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Any comments are welcome.
Hmmm.
#1180 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/20 11:46:59
you may not want to build a whole level with different texture scaling... for one thing, it messes the lightmaps up something fierce as well as makes qbsp cut up faces more i think.
i tried doing that for a speedmap and it looked awful. mind you the map was pretty bad to begin with... ;)
LTH
#1181 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/02/20 15:03:29
Dunno if anyone has answered your Q1rad question, if not then here ya go:
"Coloured light, how?"
use the -exportlit cmd line parm when compiling light.
"light emitting surfaces, any way to stop them being so bright?"
No... :( Unfortunately not, it sucks yeah. Best way to get around it is use light textures with very very dark borders so that the visual effect is subdued / eliminated in MOST cases, or use a light texture where the "light" covers the entire texture, with no border etc..
Happy fun whay!
Btw
#1182 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/02/20 15:05:22
q1rad coolness again, try messing with the "-smooth x" option, its fucking lovely, x=max angle q1rad will smooth the light around, set this at around 25-30 and a 12 sided cylinder looks like a 120 sides cylinder, cool effect!
Bah
#1183 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/20 15:08:56
Radiosity is the sawk, I've gone back to trusty old TyrLite. That said, that 'smooth' function sounds interesting - but I can't be arsed to convert all of my coloured lights back into the stupid format that Q1rad needs, instead of the sensible format that TyrLite & co use. And anyways, I don't really like the light-saturating effect that radiosity has.
Cheers anyway!
Hmmm
#1184 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/02/20 15:10:36
did you try -bounce 0 and what light brightness settings were you using for your surfacelights?
#1185 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/20 19:11:02
What's the point of using a radiosity lighting tool with bounce turned off?
Errr
#1186 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/02/20 20:57:12
so you can say "I make teh map look sexeh MOH YEAH!!!"
like duh... :D
I'm With LTH
#1187 posted by Mr Fribbles [203.113.200.212] on 2004/02/21 05:54:18
Doesn't bounce 0 mean no radiosity? I'm confused...
: )
AguirRe
#1188 posted by Mr Fribbles [203.113.200.212] on 2004/02/21 05:57:38
My comment is, hurrah!
Thank you all the hard work, aguirRe.
Well...
#1189 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/21 07:21:36
"radiosity" refers to bouncing light, sure, but in our line of work, it's usually paired with light emitting surfaces. So, if you want light emiting surfaces, but don't care about bouncing light, you might use bounce 0.
Yes, i'm very drunk. And i can still type better than you.
But...
#1190 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/21 08:23:59
As previously stated, I don't care about light emitting surfaces, since they look crap.
Lodfop
#1191 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.97] on 2004/02/21 11:44:26
I typed that header with my nipples. The amazing world of wireless.
#1192 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/21 12:43:15
You must have some fucking big bitch tits to be able to type with them.
Lol
#1193 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.201] on 2004/02/21 14:42:35
Bob has bitch tits -- nope just a set of extremely cold nipples.
Btw, LTH
#1194 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.245] on 2004/02/21 14:57:45
glad to see you on the func_board. Does that mean you are you mapping as much as you code these days?
Lol
#1195 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/21 20:37:43
You could say that.
AguirRe
#1196 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 12:24:10
Could you just explain the use of _sun_mangle for me: how are the two parameters used?
Mike
#1197 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/22 12:31:43
x = yaw, y = pitch, z = placeholder.
LTH
#1198 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 12:58:04
Thanks. I understand yaw and pitch but not 'placeholder'.
Sorry to be dense but I have never used _sunlight before: I am only trying it now after reading some comments by AguirRe in this forum.
I have a rather large (high) set of mountains in FMB12 and lighting them is proving difficult.
As a by the way, is 256 the largest texture size that can be used in Quake1 - I can see some pretty obvious tiling?
Mike:
#1199 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/22 13:06:30
'Placeholder' means just put zero; i believe it's needed becuase the compiler expects a vector, but only actually has a use for two or the numbers.
Re: texture size, first, check this: http://www.celephais.net/stuff/tex...
Second, try scaling the texture up, or using more lighting variation to break up the large surfaces. (I know, "lighting variation" is contrary to the whole _sunlight aesthetic. But you could still put in some subtle point lights or antilights to create the needed variety.)
Mike
#1200 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/22 13:07:20
placeholder is exactly that - it doesn't do anything, it's just necessary to convince the compile utils that you're using a 3-part vector.
Metl
#1201 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/22 13:09:19
Doesn't HalfLife allow texture randomization? How does it do it?
Thanks Guys
#1202 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 13:12:18
(or gals!)
Ha Ha Metlslime Is A Girl!
#1203 posted by czg [80.202.31.20] on 2004/02/22 13:25:27
Proof: http://www.celephais.net/IAmAGirl....
Yes, Metlslime Is A Grrl
#1204 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/22 13:31:25
More proof!
<goetz> http://www.celephais.net/quake/
<goetz> metlslime is that u ?
<goetz> i thought u were male
<metlslime> i'm a hot japanese girl
<Auhsan> woa
<Auhsan> I love you metlslime
<metlslime> this explains why i never get laid, after all, who wants to have sex with a hot japanese girl?
<metlslime> nobody. I wish i was one of those skinny white computer geeks. They get all the sex.
<Auhsan> from their hands
<metlslime> heh
* metlslime cries
Help Again
#1205 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 13:36:57
I am just trying to see the difference between using _sunlight or placed light entities in a map.
For some reason, light does not seem to work on my trial, 2055 brush, map. Here is the readout: -
4361 planes 87220
4252 vertexes 51024
2387 nodes 57288
6 texinfo 240
3888 faces 77760
13244 clipnodes 105952
1202 leafs 33656
4808 marksurfaces 9616
17010 surfedges 68040
8506 edges 34024
2 textures 130652
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 176
File: ter2.bsp
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces
Light: 0.0%, Elapsed: 0:00
Light: 100.0%, Elapsed: 0:01
lightdatasize: 0
0 switchable light styles
Elapsed time : 0:02
BspBuild [Light complete]
The numbers mean nothing to me. Can anybody spot my (probably obvious) error?
It Looks...
#1206 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/22 14:05:11
like you only put on light entity:
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces
sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction.
Having An Interesting, Albeit Annoying Problem...
#1207 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/22 14:06:39
there's a phantom brush which has cropped up in my map which i'm trying to get rid of...
the problem is, the brush doesn't appear in gtkradiant, but when i compile the map, it is there, in quake. there's nothing wrong with the brush, other than it is a phantom... it's not super deformed or huge or any of the common problems...
any suggestions?
Mike
#1208 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.41] on 2004/02/22 14:12:14
Look in the readme for sunmangle details and some recommendations to start with. The third number, the "placeholder", isn't required at all anymore in my tools (but is accepted for compatibility).
In your log printout, lightdatasize is 0, which means that there is no lights generated at all (the map is probably pitch black). There is one light entity (sunlight isn't counted as a light entity), but for some reason is doesn't generate any measurable light.
Send me the zipped map+wad and what tool arguments you're using and I'll try to find out why it doesn't work.
Texture Randomisation
#1209 posted by Preach [81.128.230.243] on 2004/02/22 14:13:13
I believe texture randomisation in HL is done with a naming convention, so to randomise between 3 textures you would name them
-0texname
-1texname
-2texname
and so on. They probably have to have the same dimentions for this to work.
Necros
#1210 posted by pjw [24.128.248.9] on 2004/02/22 14:15:45
Dumb question probably, but you're sure you don't have anything either filtered or hidden in-editor?
If not, try brush-cleanup (either plugins or a button, depending on what version you're running).
You could also try hiding all brushes in the area (select one-by-one and hide) and then doing a "select touching" in the empty space that's left and see if you get anything selected?
Simultaneous Posting
#1211 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.41] on 2004/02/22 14:19:43
Necros, sunlight only needs the intensity value to be activated, the sunmangle is default 0,-90 (pretty boring zenith sunlight, though). Check out the readme for this and other related information.
As for the phantom brush, is it solid, i.e. not penetrable with rockets/player?
Texture Randomization...
#1212 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/22 14:22:59
i believe it works as preacher said, but as for the implementation, i think it subdivides the face into polygons (just like quake does, actually) and each polygon of the original face gets one of the 3 textures in preacher's example.
Necros:
#1213 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/02/22 14:27:52
like you only put on light entity ... sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction.
necros: _sunlight and _sun_mangle are keys, not entities. They both go in the worldspawn entity.
Lights
#1214 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 14:46:43
I have two test maps: one is lit via the _sunlight key in the worldspawn entity, and the other is lit by one light entity with no entry in the worldspawn.
I wanted to see how _sunlight lit the map as I saw some advantages when considering how many light entities my map would require (it is not a big map in terms of depth and width, but is fairly high due to some pesky mountains.
I will take up aguirRe's offer to see what he can tell me. Thanks everyone.
AguirRe
#1215 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.17.8] on 2004/02/22 15:23:29
E-mail on its way. I forgot to mention that I use Bsp Editor.
Metl
#1216 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/22 20:35:59
You mean it would be possible to write a bsp compiler for Quake that does it, then?
AguirRe, Riot, whoever, get to it! :P
Responses:
#1217 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/22 23:17:27
pjw: yep, i'm sure it's not just filtered or something :)
aguire: It appears to be a completly solid brush, but it doesn't appear to be a extension from another one, because i've removed all the brushes surrounding it, and this brush is still there, in the middle of nowhere...
metlslime: yeah, i meant to say: "it looks like you only put one light" -- forgot the e.
The GreenHorn And The PAKfile
#1218 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/23 00:19:33
As I am working on a PAK file, and adding all kind of Quake1 bsp's into it, I got rather confused of the size of these maps.
As I really got Zombie by betatesting, this strange appearance overcame to me.
First I had some maps I laid my hands on, and I was quiet happy to play them.
Then I decided to make them attached to eachother and turned my gloomed eyes to this board to find some knowhow.
At first the maps were small enough to be played under the safe surroundings of Windows.
But as I learned a lot of you and was pinching the maps to a higher level, it suddenly freaked me by getting the Alloc_hunc error.
It wasn't worrying me, because I was in the opinion that with the -winmem16 option it would go as smooth as possible.
Now experimenting with these PAKfiles I came to the conclusion I had to make a choice.
Or I would make a PAKfile what would play under every circomstances in the Window surrounding, but than it would be the one with the smallest maps and therefore the crappy one. But at least noone would get stuck on this Alloc_hunk error, what is in my opinion the worst buck I could imagine.
Or I would be as stubborn as I am, and just load all the maps with their sizes of some even 2.2Mb in the PAK file and think that when one would like to play it, one ought to size ones computer to the DOS standard and get along with it. This last one is one of my own appealings.
Still I have the idea it is a reasonable question to ask, because I have found myself to much times grumbling behind this alloc_hunc error after having a lot of fun with a pak of files.
In fact it is the same question as trying to make the levels to ID standards, and by doing so making the chance of distroying it under its own cummalating weight.
You may find I make to many words for a small question as this, but after sending a lot of maps to all the ones who were willing to take a look at it, where I am still gratefull for, I wanted to know what you single super mappers out there would think of this question from this poor little sod out in the Quake Universe.
And please don't ask if I was drinking again,
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers...
Hehe
#1219 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/23 01:58:13
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers... :)
anyway, if you're asking if it would be ok to make players use the -winmem 16 (or -heapsize 16000) command line when playing your maps, then the answer is yes. in fact, almost all my maps have needed -winmem 16 or even -winmem 32 to play. don't worry. just include a little note in your readme about how to do it and it should be fine.
Stupid Question
#1220 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/02/23 04:17:41
Do lavaballs counts as edicts?
and please don't tell me they do
MadFox
#1221 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.56] on 2004/02/23 06:13:56
What necros just said. That memory error message isn't a problem at all for most Quake players today, don't worry about it.
There are probably other more important issues you might worry about in your pak, e.g. visuals, gameplay, flow etc.
Phantom Brush
#1222 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.56] on 2004/02/23 06:18:59
Necros, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. You'll probably have to tell me where the brush is (and isn't supposed to be) as well.
Yep
#1223 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2004/02/23 06:19:16
They do. Also, every lavaball that the (invisible) misc_lavaball entity throws counts as well.
Who Cares?
#1224 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/23 08:49:12
Really, why is anyone bothered about edict limits anymore? There are plenty of engines out there that abolish them.
There Also Aren't Very Many Software Engines With Increased Edicts
#1225 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/23 10:41:10
And What Really Sucks...
#1226 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/02/23 12:26:28
...is being forced to use a different engine just to play one map.
#1227 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/23 12:41:27
Presumably the Nehahra software engine bumps the edict count?
And if it does, why not just use that one *all the time*?
You mapperse are so stuck in the past :P
Nehahra Software Engine?
#1228 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/23 13:25:42
Please, point me in its direction.
GeForce Fx Ti 4 Series -- 90 Bucks
#1229 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.174] on 2004/02/23 14:42:05
Time not worrying about software mode compatabilaty -- priceless
Rpg:
#1230 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/23 15:45:18
there's tyr-quake, which is basically the regular software quake with many limits removed. a good alternative, i think.
TyrQuake
#1231 posted by aguirRe [62.127.48.28] on 2004/02/23 15:56:27
has also more windowed video modes and is much less fussy with troublesome bsps. Very useful when hunting leaks and other stuff.
Necros: What's going on with your email attachments? I'm still not receiving them, are they very big or are they filtered somewhere?
Removing DM-bodies
#1232 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.53] on 2004/02/23 16:24:12
Is there a way (without QC) to avoid player bodies remaining visible after suicide (with kill command) in DM? Or at least shorten the time until they vanish.
I'm still working on the auto-screenshot generator and it looks weird when after some screenshots, a lot of bodies are all over the place.
Hjhgg
#1233 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2004/02/24 04:14:07
aguirre: use zquake
DM Bodies
#1234 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/24 04:25:59
In the killer pack, dead bodies remain and don't disappear.. They stay "solid" for the player during the game... Perhaps there is a model you can re-use to modify a little the game to perform this feature..
Enjoy !!!
Nehahra
#1235 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/24 11:11:01
I thought nehahra.exe was software. If it's not, then please set me straight.
Nehahra Is GL Only
#1236 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.229.24] on 2004/02/24 11:20:05
Which is where Neh Nekkid (software version) comes in, but Mindcrime never released that.
!
#1237 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/24 12:04:32
i know! get a model program and open up the player.mdl from the pak0.pak
now, delete all but one triangle from the model.
Thanks For The
#1238 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.232] on 2004/02/24 12:56:57
suggestions, I'd hoped that there was an easier way like an engine cvar.
I started to fiddle with the player.mdl also but realized that if I do that, I can just as well fix it in QC (and actually fix some other problems too).
Sweeping The Bodies Under The Carpet...
#1239 posted by Preach [81.129.84.154] on 2004/02/24 13:40:06
I can't remember if this is the case with player bodies, but if they're removed on a timer, you could set host_framerate to a very high value(say 10000) so that time passes very quickly. Otherwise the qc method works well too.
Fraid Not
#1240 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/24 13:42:12
Bodies disappear at the rate that the player spawns - there's a body queue of about length 4 to which new bodies are added.
How About...
#1241 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/02/24 13:42:53
setting r_drawentities to 0?
The CopyToBodyQue
#1242 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.49] on 2004/02/24 13:56:11
in the respawn function was what I commented out to get rid of the bodies without any obvious side-effects.
r_drawentities affects also all ammo, weapons etc so it's too coarse, I want the shots to look as original as possible.
I'm now trying to make the player rotate in any deathmatch or monster position for each suicide, but it seems tricky.
Is there an explanation of all variables/members (e.g. entity.chain) and lower level functions (e.g. find/findradius) available somewhere?
There's A Qc Manual Out There...
#1243 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/24 14:19:12
sadly, i don't have it in electronic form anymore...
Right After
#1244 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.77] on 2004/02/24 15:30:01
I posted I realized that maybe I should try Google first ...
Anyway, I found one here http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak... . It appears to be what I was looking for. Together with the Inside3D tutorials, I hope it'll be more clear.
Animated Texture
#1245 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/25 02:44:01
I have a little problem, a basic one perhaps because I'm a beginner in Quake mapping... anyway... I want tu use some "animated texture": I mean a texture defined with several different one that performs an animation in the game, for example a flame on a wall (see +0light01 +1light01 +2light01 in ID software Light basic textures). I select the first texture (hopng the compiler to "link" the 2 others with it) and I certainly missed something, because during the game, there is no "animated" effect on the concerned brush..
Is there anyone who can help me please...
Well
#1246 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/25 04:33:31
try applying other frames on the faces you won't see in the game but these frames will be included into the bsp file...
i do that all the time, compilers i use never add other frames. and i'm not sure if they should...
Surely...
#1247 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/25 06:44:10
...surely compilers really ought to add all the animations into the map by themselves - there's no time when you're using an animated texture when you don't want it to animate, is there?
Animated Textures
#1248 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/25 07:51:03
Clearly, I want to use an animated texture, and keep the animation feature during the game !! My problem is the animated texture is blocked on the first one, and the "animation" is never performed...
Am I missing something in the compilation option or something else ?? I don't know, so any advices is welcomed
Bleh
#1249 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/25 08:10:47
as i said, apply other frames of the sequence on some brushes in your map and you'll get the animation working... just apply them on the faces that will get cut off by qbsp.exe and won't be visibl ein the game. but they'll be used by the button, etc..
#@*%&@## !!!
#1250 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/25 08:30:00
AAAaaaahhhh !!! It's not a bug it's a feature !!! For the compiler: having in its texture list the missing ones for the animation is a turnaround.... So even if some brushes are cut and not used, but textured with those required for the animation, the brush that uses the animated one will have a complete list and then the game will performed the required effect ... OK, I understand now... I'm sorry... but sometimes for me, understanding quickly says to past a long time in explanantions... ;-) !!
Thanx
Bye
Yeah.
#1251 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/25 11:42:27
it's a stupid bug in earlier compilers...
aguire's treebsp fixes that too
Hmmm
#1252 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/02/25 12:44:11
i use bengt's qbsp and it doesn't picks other frames anyway.... dunno why.
Oh
#1253 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/25 13:12:36
DuBSP does it okay.
Animated Textures
#1254 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.124] on 2004/02/25 13:27:20
I'm certainly no expert on these, but the compiler definitely checks for texture names that begin with + and adds the extra frames as necessary. You can easily see this in the compiler log Added x texture frames.
Vondur: Versions of TreeQBSP prior to 1.95 (that includes DuBSP) doesn't show this message unless in -verbose mode. TxQBSP has always shown them. See also latest readme.
You don't have to apply the extra frames anywhere in the map; just make sure that they are in the wad you're using, otherwise you'll get a warning.
I just tried it in a box map, apply the first of the animating textures (+0xxx) and the compiler will fix the rest.
Can Anyone Explain Me
#1255 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/02/25 16:57:25
what are clipnodes? What increases their amount apart from number of faces?
I heard about the clipnodes limit of about 32*** and just want to be carefull now.
Has...
#1256 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2004/02/25 18:51:01
...anyone had a crack at modifying CZG's Worldcraft quake.fgd to include Bengt's new lighting options? If yes, might you kindly make it available?
Hey Couple Things
#1257 posted by Tronyn [24.78.146.107] on 2004/02/25 19:02:19
Pulsar: Clipnodes are simply clip surfaces. Each surface exposed to the inside of a level (not the void) clips the player (he can run into it, over it, etc). In DM maps, people often cover intricate areas (ruined bricks for example) with a wide brush with the clip texture. The clip texture makes a brush using it clip as normal (blocks the player that is), but is invisible in-game. If you're still confused, let me know (My latest maps all original have run over the clipnode limit). I owe aguirRe a lot for helping me out with this.
And, hey: does anyone want to do a bit of work for me modifying weapons models? I'd do it myself, but my qME must be an inferior version or something since all I can do is view, not change anything on the models or alter any animations (argh).
To Clarify
#1258 posted by Tronyn [24.78.146.107] on 2004/02/25 19:04:05
If a bunch of brushes overlap without any space between them, that doesn't clip since the player can't go there. That's why clipping brushes lower the amount of clipnodes - a surface with 25 tiny little bricks all the same height on the ground, could be covered with one clip brush and would then clip as one brush rather than as the 5 sides exposed on each brick.
Tronyn
#1259 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/02/25 19:59:32
Mail me what you want doing with those models.
Texture Application
#1260 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/26 02:44:34
Hello, thanks to those who helped me for my "animated textures" problem yesterday.. Just another thing: when you apply texture to brush, it's possible to choose a scale factor to reduce/increase texture size.. I'm just looking for an easy way to choose this scale factor and anticipate the "game view" thet will performs. Is there someone who can give me some advices conerning this topic ??
Thanks
Hmm
#1261 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/26 03:21:36
don't play with scales too much, use default scale. otherwise the map might look crappy. personally i use slightly scaled textures on some faces that aren't texture size so i have to scale non-tiled texture a bit for it to fit. uder a bit i mean something likt 0.95 or 1.05 scale.
yet huge tex scale is useful when you make sky. it's good idea to use scale of sky texture something like 100. this will reduce polycount of sky surface.
Vondur
#1262 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/26 06:23:58
The default scale is set to 1 in QuArK6.4.0, and it seems to be a little big, because the map look crappy with this size... I mean the texture details are very visible without "putting your nose" on a brush (bit definition of the texture appears...) I made some try with 0.4 up to 0.5, and the map looks better (bit definition of the texture disappears even if you "put your nose" on the brush)... Perhaps the texture scaling is different from one tool to another one... I don't really know how to find an efficient turnaround of this little problem without making many try.. Is there a method, or anything else, that can show me what is the good scaling method (if I decide to change of mapping tool for example) ?
Hm
#1263 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/02/26 07:13:33
try looking at the textures in start.bsp, you'll get the idea of default proper scaling...
VonDur
#1264 posted by JPLambert [213.30.139.243] on 2004/02/26 08:46:39
OK, there is no real method to anticipate the map looks like otherwise trying and compare the results with existent maps... It's also possible that it misses something else in my tool configuration... I will check this this evening
Thanx
?
#1265 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/26 12:32:12
++++ERROR++++
numtexinfo=MAX_MAP_TEXINFO
where did I raise this bull?
Um...
#1266 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/02/26 13:21:53
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb, so check to see if you are over it.
You're Referring To
#1267 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.53] on 2004/02/26 14:14:21
MAX_MAP_MIPTEX (originally 2MB), which is the actual size of all textures in bsp. MadFox has hit another limit (originally 4096) which is the max # different texture info objects in bsp.
This number normally increases when you have many different textured faces in different positions/angles and it typically gets pretty high when using QuArK ETP or Hammer Valve 220 map format due to them capable of more complex texture positioning.
MadFox, I assume that you're still using the qbsp256 compiler and apparently it cannot cope with your current map requirements.
If you want to stick with that compiler, you must lower the texinfo requirements. See if you can change map format from QuArK ETP to Classic Quake in the configuration (I'm not sure you can do this in v4.07).
Otherwise you must use a newer compiler with a higher limit. Email me directly if you need more help regarding this issue.
Thanks For The Info
#1268 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/02/26 14:24:05
I lowered the polyhedron count.
I used 1244 polyhedrons, every brush more crashes the compiler.
So I stick to this limit by sharing out brushes and delete stairs etc.
I wish I understood that MipTex Acracadabra
but it is all right, nevermind.
As long as the map compiles.
Oh
#1269 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.109.54] on 2004/02/27 16:20:51
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb
Haven't expected that I'm close to another limit, this time of 2 mb textures. I have 1.9+ mb of them.
Is it a limit of tools or of the engine?
Damn Tag I Forgot To Close
#1270 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.109.54] on 2004/02/27 16:42:51
and I forgot to thank Tronyn for explanation, it was very useful
Tex Limit
#1271 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.108] on 2004/02/27 18:12:50
that used to be 2 MB is only "limited" in one of my tools, TxQBSP (16 MB, which should be sufficient for a while ...). All other tools are "unlimited", i.e. theoretically 2 GB.
Anyone Interested
#1272 posted by Tronyn [24.78.146.107] on 2004/02/28 02:07:03
Anyone interested in converting some Hexen II enemies to Quake? Specifically, I'm thinking the Hexen II mummy, which would fit in perfectly with the Night Journey's egyptian theme... I mean, uh, I'm not working on the Night Journey... uhm..
And, the Hexen II Skull Wizard would work well in the Arcane/Bookshelf project as well of course.
PuLSaR: No problem, glad to help.
Lava Light
#1273 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.65] on 2004/02/28 15:16:22
This issue came up some time ago, have you tried putting a delay 3 light with intensity 100 just above the lava surface as a spotlight, directed straight down and with a cone of 180 degrees?
If used with a slightly flickering style, it has an interesting glowing effect. This doesn't glow upwards of course, but maybe it could be combined with some other lights for better result?
QBSP Error
#1274 posted by JPLambert [212.96.75.85] on 2004/02/28 16:04:38
I have a strange error with QBSP during portalize process..
WARNING:CutNodePortal_r:new portal was clipped away
I currently use QuArK6.4.0, and the tool makes a "hole found in map" error (while hole checking doesn't find one !!!???)... The map is generated, but the PRT file required by VIS tool is not generated due to the portalize process problem.
Is there anyone who can tell me where to look for ??? Or if there is a turnaround to bypass the problem ???
Thanx
Take A Look
#1275 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.56] on 2004/02/28 16:19:39
at my Q1 ToolTips at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
AguirRe
#1276 posted by JPlambert [212.96.76.126] on 2004/02/29 05:37:55
Great !!! It solves the problem: TxQBSP found a misaligned texture... And QuArK locates the problem very easily...
Thanx !!
Bye...
_sunlight
#1277 posted by Mike Woodham [81.133.88.138] on 2004/02/29 07:52:08
Is _sunlight affected by the number of sky brushes in use in a map: I am joining several maps where there are many sky brushes used to 'seal' the individual maps (some 30 individual brushes of varying dimensions). These end up in my new map in various height positions lelative to each other e.g. a sky brush may be placed at +1024 units and another at -1024 units, whereas they were create at +2048 and +3072 units.
I suppose I am asking whether or not _sunlight calculates its 'sunshine' from each sky brush and that if sky brushes are at differing heights, is the resulting 'sunshine' going to look different according to the distance between the sky and the ground. As it were...
_sunlight
#1278 posted by Mike Woodham [81.133.88.138] on 2004/02/29 07:53:51
Having just hit Submit, I realise that I am probably asking this question of aguirRe more than anyone else. Still, others may be interested?
Amount Or Distance
#1279 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.126] on 2004/02/29 08:43:12
of sky brushes are irrelevant. The basic thing that matters is if a certain face can "see" a sky brush, i.e. a straight line can be drawn between the face and any sky brush. This is all that is required for indirect sunlight (sunlight2, outdoor minlight) to hit the face.
For direct sunlight, the line must also have the right angle as specified in sunmangle.
AguirRe
#1280 posted by Mike Woodham [81.133.88.138] on 2004/02/29 11:07:49
Got it, thanks.
Space Skybox
#1281 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/02/29 12:16:13
I'm looking for a skybox of empty space, nebulas, etc. If you know where I can get one, please help!
Cheers
Conversion To Ultimate Deathmatch Mod Format
#1282 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.201] on 2004/03/01 02:25:23
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/...
http://www.planetquake.com/jaj/ski...
LTH, if you can make some models for UD let me know. Enjoy... :)
http://www.planetquake.com/ud/
I'v found that speed maps suit my needs for maps for the mod. I'v patched Koohoo with the author's permission, so you can gib the end monster. Conversion of maps(speed maps mostly) by zwiffle, than, rpg, necros, xen, and a few others i'll be starting soon.
Just the changing entity lists, keeping the original flow of the game for sp. For dm, adding the mod specific items. Have many picked out, trying to narrowing it down.
If you have a problem with this let me know. No disrespect for map authors is intended. Can't find mappers, so I have to do it myself.
as
Shadowalker
#1283 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/01 06:35:28
I'm a crap skinner. If you can get past that, I can make technical (ie. not monster) models. I'm quite busy right now though, so tell me what you need and I'll see if I can find the time.
And none of those skyboxes are 'empty space / nebula', which is what I'm looking for.
HOM Problem
#1284 posted by JPLambert [212.96.77.32] on 2004/03/01 10:22:35
I have an HOM problem in my map during the game.. TxQBSP, RVIS and ARGHLITE processes are OK , and map size is about 500 ko only... This is the first time I face this problem. How can I prevent my map from HOM problem ???
See Post #1275
#1285 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.105] on 2004/03/01 10:42:31
..
AguirRe
#1286 posted by JPLambert [212.96.78.238] on 2004/03/01 13:59:49
Thanx for your help, but, what link(s) is(are) able to help me ?? I have no idea about what to look for...
...sorry...
Sorry, It Appeared
#1287 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.38] on 2004/03/01 14:14:18
above in your post #1276 as if you already found the Q1 Tooltips and got help from it. Anyway, look in the bottom right corner of my site or click here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... .
If you still need help with your HOM, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Shadowalker
#1288 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.94] on 2004/03/01 16:29:34
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod, and I have a mindflayer model I made for the original Thief I would be glad to convert to Quake mdl format. So if you are interested I'll work them over this coming weekend.
AguirRe
#1289 posted by JPLambert [212.96.76.81] on 2004/03/01 16:40:01
OK, I found the stuff... it seems to be a problem coming from RVIS... As you explain in the tooltip text file (thanks for the related link...), I try "gl_clear 1" and "r_novis 1" command from the console, and it solves me the HOM problem...
I will check all the brushes, and try to realign all textures if required... Thus I will see if HOM remains... otherwize perhaps there exists some compilation options I forgot... I'm very curious about those you currently use... I have to improve and optimize my process...
Thanx
Bye...
Biff Debris?
#1290 posted by FaTbOy! [66.20.105.15] on 2004/03/01 17:16:47
This guy made a couple texture packs that fleshed out the standard base, and metal id textures. In them he used a stone texture in combination with some of the tech textures to produce a very cool looking set of hall/wall textures. Unfortunnatly it doesnt look like the actuall stone texture got included in the WAD. Id "really" like to get a matching stone texture to go with the others. Does anyone know where I can get it or maybe contact Biff Debris? Id like to use these textures in my first mapping attempt, but not having the base stone texture is a bummer.
Thanks! FaT.
FaTbOy!
#1291 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.102] on 2004/03/01 17:33:36
I'm assuming that you're referring to the rok_la* or _re* texes, and those were made by Asaki. The stone texture itself is cliff1, which I've got -- but dunno where I got it from. If you would like, I could send it to you via email -- unless someone else might know what .wad it originally resided in...
Thanks!
#1292 posted by FaTbOy! [66.32.116.48] on 2004/03/01 22:49:14
garthargh@yahoo.com
I am a compulsive collector, if you've got links to, or .wad files of any interesting textures feel free to send them to me. One thing though since I am using yahoo, there is a size limit of 1 or 1.5 megs imposed on emails recieved.
Btw great texture sets! There are detail textures in them that I have been wishing for for years. Ive made several not to successful attempts to modify some of the exsisting id textures to suit my purposes. But so far I wouldnt show any of them to my parents, much less to the public.
Anyhoo, thanks again! FaT.
Cliff1
#1293 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2004/03/02 03:14:21
If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it came from the Rogue mission pack.
Sent =D
#1294 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.102] on 2004/03/02 05:08:11
Just fired off a little .wad with the texture to you -- ahh, technology.
Thanks!
#1295 posted by FaTbOy! [66.20.107.20] on 2004/03/02 11:23:08
Yes the internet is a wonderful thing.
I looked through the rogue wad and didnt see it. I have had my doubts as to the completeness (that a word?) of some of the id and crew .wads out there.
Screwy thing now is worldcraft keeps telling me the .bsp for my level wasnt built. Its rather anoying...
Stupid Question...
#1296 posted by FaTbOy! [66.20.107.20] on 2004/03/02 11:36:32
about Bengt jardrup's tools. There are alot of files with the .c extention. Would I be assuming correctly that these are source files and do not need to be installed into my worldcraft tools directory?
Yep.
#1297 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/02 11:40:30
all you need are the .exe files
Yep.
#1298 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/02 11:40:31
all you need are the .exe files
Woah...
#1299 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/02 11:40:44
i double posted!
Missing Texture
#1300 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.105.217] on 2004/03/02 15:42:49
I have a missing texture in the .bsp and it is not visible in the game. However, I have looked through the .map file and cannot find the name of the texture to enable me to change it.
I know I do not need to do anything... but I want to.
So, fellow mappers, is there a tool to check the .bsp to get the name of the texture. Alternatively, how can I easily locate this missing texture?
If You Have
#1301 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.58] on 2004/03/02 16:00:08
built the bsp from a map file, just check the compiler log.
AFAIK, it's not possible to see in the bsp which texture (i.e. name) that is missing, because it's ... missing.
If you can't see it in-game, it's probably some kind of a clip/trigger texture. Surprisingly many released bsps have missing textures.
SZ_GetSpace: 8098 Is > Full Buffer Size
#1302 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/02 16:37:43
Too many entities. Right?
But does this mean to many edicts or just too many brushmodels? Or both?
And also: Am I correct thinking that ambient sounds don't count as edicts or other bad things with low limits?
Missing Texture
#1303 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.57.219] on 2004/03/02 16:40:23
WARNING 16: Texture bodiesa3_1 not found
Thanks again, aguirRe
I usually have -verbose turned off and just did not think. (Too busy checking the Åre weather whilst compiling my map file!)
Ambient Sounds
#1304 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/02 18:19:07
count as edicts.
It's Bad
#1305 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/02 23:40:45
Pretty Much
#1306 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/03 01:02:37
every entity, except for lights which aren't switchable or have a "style" set to them are edicts. that doesn't include torches and flames -- these are "static entities" and have a limit all their own.
Func_illusionary
#1307 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/03 02:12:35
...is also a static entity, and therefore not an edict.
What's Wrong?
#1308 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/03 10:37:19
So I received a demo from a map I sended.
Unzipped it with Dzip, and placed it in my
Quake directory. Openend the map that was related to, and gave the console the option:
playdemo test1.dem
Still I receive the -can't open test1.dem-
Here's What's Wrong
#1309 posted by Fern [172.156.128.133] on 2004/03/03 16:08:41
you should put it in the /id1/ directory, not the quake directory
I Did
#1310 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/03 16:52:35
won't work.
#1311 posted by . [172.164.59.139] on 2004/03/03 18:12:31
"Just fired off a little .wad"
Bet you did ^_~
What Does It Mean...
#1312 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/03/03 20:11:00
What does it mean when I get a 'Reached occupant at XYZ, no filling performed' error, not in FillOutside but in GrowRegions (hull 2 to be precise)?
Cheers.
What
#1313 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/03 21:36:32
FERN I LOVE
Rennie...
#1314 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2004/03/03 23:19:28
You don't need to tell Quake that the file is a .dem, so just type "playdemo test1"
Fr3N!
#1315 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2004/03/03 23:22:28
...still lurking, good to see. Can we expect a release soon ;P (seems to be the go with some of the old krew).
Necros&metlslime
#1316 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/04 01:14:23
thanks, I'll note that
Against All Ods
#1317 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/04 07:56:05
Had the same rubbish with the Dzip file Necros sended me. Don't know what it is. After months I was able to read the demo file.
Same goes with this one. Done all I could, even without the *.dem option, but it won't work.
Think the Orges are conspiring against me, after they noticed I turned them up in a Mission pak.
But nevermind, if they catch my real name, I still have time enough to establish my firewall and jumppath...
LTH
#1318 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.27] on 2004/03/04 12:37:59
you just have a leak in hulls 1/2. GrowRegions has nothing to do with it, leaks always occur in FillOutside.
Load up the game with the pts file and see where the leak is. I suggest you also take a look at my Q1 ToolTips at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
If you still can't fix the leak, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
-=0=-
#1319 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/04 16:21:36
glquake/winquake crash without any errors when I enter large open area in my map. I suppose it happens because of edicts, but Tyrquake says there are only 560+ edicts there, not >600
Im not sure, should any error tell me about edicts overflow when crashing?
#1320 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/04 18:23:47
You won't overflow the edict count by going into an area with many edicts - the edict count is static.
I Know
#1321 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/04 18:32:05
but I noticed that edicts grow up a little (about 20-30) from their ammount in the begining of the map. And that area is the second area from the start room.
Well,
#1322 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/04 19:48:46
rockets and nails count as edicts, as well as gibs, so if you gib alot of guys while shooting rockets and there are nail traps firing at you, you can go over the limit.
you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close.
#1323 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/04 19:58:18
you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close.
Well, let's kill some... ammo crates and medkits:)
seriously, I need to free at least 20 edicts, that's bad;
it won't be easy, I've just completed placing monster on normal and now I need to fix it without destroing gameplay..:(
Well...
#1324 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/04 22:38:34
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...
you can look into monster spawning to help abit, especially if you already have the teleporting monsters set up... you can get rid of like 3 edicts there: the trigger, the teleport trig and the teledest ent.
also, you can code a thing to remove corpses, that way you get an edict back everytime you kill something...
and, of course, change the gameplay -- less health and less monsters.
good luck. i ran into the same problems with most of my newer levels :\
#1325 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/03/04 23:34:35
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...
oh, there's already no small ammo
but I think I have to remove some teleporing monsters
Teleporting Monsters
#1326 posted by Preach [81.129.108.123] on 2004/03/05 05:16:22
Pulsar: I think what Necros is talking about is using a QC patch to make the monsters teleport in, rather than removing them completely. There are patches that allow you to set a flag on a monster, which will 'teleport' it in when triggered. That way you wouldn't need the entities he listed. Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...
Perhaps an alternative for an ambush would be to have the monsters that currently teleport in behind a door that will slide away to reveal the monsters. That way, instead of three entities per monster, you'd just have 1 entity to set up the entire attack.
...
#1327 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/05 11:46:50
Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...
so? include it in a pak file. pak files are never frowned upon these days.
......
#1328 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/03/05 13:16:11
However, it does mean that you can't play the map in any other mod.
Still,
#1329 posted by HeadThumping [65.140.55.90] on 2004/03/05 16:42:33
Spawning monsters in beats the hell out of setting up teleportations (rooms, monsters, triggers).
Why Would You Do That In The First Place?
#1330 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/05 16:59:56
obviously, you'll be screwing up the gameplay of the map which was not meant to be played with other mods.
you could play the original quake with a mod which permanently gives you quad damage, but why would you want to? (barring doing it for fun)
Necros
#1331 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/05 18:38:10
So... you would never want to play a map in Nehahra, for example?
Or
#1332 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/05 18:38:40
What about coop in QW? QW requires its own progs.dat, keep in mind.
Blah
#1333 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/03/05 19:47:18
I have several mods I like to play old maps in. I made Black Ops and Battlemech specifically to reuse maps with no progs customizations.
.
#1334 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/05 21:34:31
rpg: i figured there'd be exceptions like this but i hadn't bothered thinking about them. the way i see it (for those exceptions) is that if you want to play a map in another mod than what the map was intended to be played in, it should be the mapper's fault if you can't and the mapper shouldn't feel restrained from making his own changes codewise for his map because some people won't be able to have fun with other mods.
also, is it not possible to use the nehahra engine without the progs? or did you actually mean to use the new ai and stuff?
as for lth: to reuse maps with no progs customizations. (emphasis added)
there you go. ;)
Preach Or Anyone Who Knows These Things...
#1335 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.80.26] on 2004/03/06 02:39:05
Where can I find the "QC patch to make the monsters teleport in", and how is it used?
#1336 posted by . [172.164.25.3] on 2004/03/06 03:16:58
Unless you're referring to a specific patch I'm unaware of you don't need one, just do this:
set a func_trigger or trigger_multiple (I haven't touched WC in months so if I'm wrong guys correct me)... make a box room somewhere outside of your map, place a trigger_teleport brush on the bottom, give it a target. Place the info_tele_destination or whatever that one is whre you want the monster to spawn at. GIve it the name you gave the target field in the trigger_teleport brush.
Inside that box room put the monster(s) you want in there.
Phait
#1337 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.134.225] on 2004/03/06 06:12:10
Thanks, but I knew that bit. I'm referring to the posts #1326 and #1328 above. It suggests other ways of achieving teleporting.
Mike
#1338 posted by Fern [172.165.144.112] on 2004/03/06 07:04:42
One of the mission pack progs has spawning monsters, meaning you don't place the monster in the editor, the trigger actually generates a monster during play. I think it's the hipnotic progs.dat but I'm not sure. There's also an example map... somewhere... keep googling.
Necros
#1339 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/06 09:43:08
I meant with the new AI and stuff.
Teleporting Monsters Patch
#1340 posted by Preach [81.129.113.232] on 2004/03/06 10:00:54
I figured I'd have a go at this, seeing as some of the versions I've seen have issues with telefragging/stuck monsters and monsters freezing for a second after teleporting. Mod and source at:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
There's a readme in there, but basically set the monster's style to 1 and target it to teleport it in.
.
#1341 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/06 11:35:25
I meant with the new AI and stuff.
well, see, that would count as screwing up the gameplay to me. it'll be a lot harder to play, so you could experience ammo shortages, lack of health, etc... stuff you would never know if you had played it the way it was meant to be played. ;)
That Was The Way The Nehahra Maps Were Designed
#1342 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/06 14:32:18
From what Bal told me, none of the mappers knew the game was going to be so difficult; otherwise they would have put in more ammo and such.
Brush Merging
#1343 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.134.225] on 2004/03/06 15:21:30
I am using BspEditor and do not want to change (having recently tried several others) but I do have a bit of a problem with its Merge Brushes feature. I have a 12,000 brush map that I want to reduce in size and BspEditor takes an age e.g. the base for this particular map is 4000 brushes and the merge function takes (took) 8 hours. In addition, if the PC is 'touched' during merging the program crashes.
So, can anyone recommend a brush merge facility? And no, I do not want to do it by hand!!
Delete It All And Start Again...
#1344 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/03/06 15:40:26
kidding, of course ;D
I think you may be stuck with toughing out 8 hour merges... GtkRadiant is the only other editor that has a CSG merge command, and that only works for selected brushes to join into 1 brush... you'd basically have to go thru your whole map merging everything you want together. This may be a faster/easier process in the end, so keep it in mind.
btw, 12,000 brushes? 'whoa'.
Mike:
#1345 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/06 15:44:22
merge it in bsp, then export to .map, then open that .map in radiant, continue your map there, and merge as you go.
Spawning Monsters
#1346 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2004/03/06 16:17:07
Hipnotic/Ritual's Scourge of Armagon mission pack has an entity called a func_spawn, which allows you to "teleport in" anything - ammo, keys, monsters, func_kitchen_sink, anything. With the right flags or whatever, you can use it more than once.
Zerstörer uses spawnflag 64 on monsters to delay their spawning. No teleport effect, and I think there is a slight delay after spawning, since it basically holds off on starting the monster until use.
Mike
#1347 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.19] on 2004/03/06 21:18:22
Why do you want to merge brushes, am I missing something here? The 12k brushes are no problems for the compilers, except for sheer processing time, that is.
12000 Brushes !?!
#1348 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2004/03/06 21:37:19
thats quite a lot, isnt it? =)
I'd Say So, Yes.
#1349 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/06 23:12:19
Aquire
#1350 posted by headthump [68.18.131.85] on 2004/03/07 01:29:07
I was wondering the same. I use to get similar sizes when I experimented with mesh to brush programs but as you can see that is a lot of trouble to deal with if that is the source of the magnitude here. If it just so happens that 12000 brushes is the number of brushes Mike arrived at more power to him. Even my largest maps have been less than 4000 when built entirely in editor.
Merging Brushes
#1351 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.134.225] on 2004/03/07 02:15:59
I want to merge to a) cut down compile times and b) to speed up the 3d window view; because I have not finished the map yet.
I really do not want to have to learn a new editor. I favour compiling two or three times per maping session, especially as this part of the map is a definite "make it up as you go along" area.
Ho hum, I figure that if I start merging before I go to bed on a workday, it should be finished by the time I come home from work the following noght. That gives the merge program some 16 hours.
Hmm....
#1352 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/07 02:22:55
do you only have to merge once, or every time you want to compile? And do the compile times really drop enough to make up for the time spent merging?
Metslime
#1353 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.134.225] on 2004/03/07 03:28:27
Only once. But I am impatient!
Problem solved - I have dug my old PC out of the cupboard and I am getting on with the next section of the map whilst the one-time merge of the terrain section is run on the old machine. Now it doesn't matter if it takes two days.
Also, having played around with aguiRe's lighting program, I now know that I can build the whole thing from smaller sections and will not have a lighting consistency problem when I join the maps at a later stage.
Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map. Rather like a start map that you returned to and the effects of your previous visits were still evident e.g. the bodies remained, doors were still open, ammo that you took on a previous visit were not replaced.
Have I got the right game?
Don't Think So
#1354 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/07 06:32:31
However, numerous solutions to 'hub' maps have been bandied about over on http://forums.inside3d.com
I think the consensus is that you can do it for a very few objects with minor QC patching, or for more objects only with engine modding.
Oh Well,
#1355 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.134.225] on 2004/03/07 07:09:29
...back to the 12,000 brush map then.
Mike
#1356 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.118] on 2004/03/07 07:43:12
In my next version of Light, I've added something I call local minlight which may help joining together map parts that have different ambient requirements.
Local minlight is created by new delay 4 lights that are similar to delay 3 lights, but non-additive and they can go below the global minlight. These lights "cast minlight" which I hope can be quite useful.
This makes it rather flexible in creating different ambient levels in different areas.
Useful...
#1357 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/07 10:01:28
... how about how kind of 'range' keyvalue on it?
Mike
#1358 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.68] on 2004/03/07 10:05:14
'Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map.'
Was it The Demon King perhaps?
Aguire
#1359 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/03/07 14:44:08
That's an excellent idea.
Mapping For UD
#1360 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.159] on 2004/03/07 17:43:39
#1288 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.94] on 2004/03/01 16:29:34
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod...
Great, currently the download times are insane on fileplanet. Post your email here and i'll get in contact with you. Use spam bot protection.
namedon'tspammeyousickbastards@loc...
Thanks, as
He He
#1361 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.173] on 2004/03/07 20:52:14
Actually, I shouldn't have any problems downloading it, but if you want to reach me directly alanr643@msn.com should suffice.
I worked on a retexturing project this weekend, so it will be later in the week that I can rework those maps for you -- let's shoot for Thursday (and if my honey Leah Remini's butt gets any bigger, maybe even Wednesday).
OK
#1362 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.85.118] on 2004/03/08 14:16:14
Thanks aguirRe.
HeadThump, no I've never played Demon King. I was sure it was a Quake level 'cause I remember thinking how convenient it was: I build my maps big which leads to problems but if you could transport between smaller maps without re-setting everything...
Managed to reduce the 12,000 brushes to 856, so BspEditor Merge Brushes really does work even if slowly. And it wasn't crashing, if the mouse or keyboard was used, the display simply stopped showing the number of brushes being checked. I noticed this because the hard drive light continued to flick. So, leave it alone and show some patience.
Finally, I remember a map or mod with particularly accurate Ogres - either it was the grenades being lobbed a long way or they were using rocket launchers/bazookers. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Regards, Mike
Preach & Fat Controller
#1363 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.85.118] on 2004/03/08 15:31:56
Thanks, I will take a look.
Mike
#1364 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.174] on 2004/03/08 16:47:11
The Demon King is a Q1SP pak, look here: http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Can't say I liked it though, especially its inter-map handling was bad and critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries etc.
Holy Hell?!
#1365 posted by necros [63.139.106.197] on 2004/03/08 17:15:57
12000 to 856?
how does that work?!
TDK
#1366 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.85.118] on 2004/03/08 17:22:02
Mmmmm, seven years ago this was probably a great map to play. I had not seen it before.
AguiRe, I know you are very good at English, and I know the last sentence is English, and I recognise all of the words, and I know I should understand but I still don't understand "critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries". Is this something I, as a mapper of mediocre ability, should worry about?
What on earth is an unmarked func_illusionary?
Brush Merging
#1367 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.85.118] on 2004/03/08 17:39:41
I haven't got a clue how the program works, but watching the disply suggests that it is taking each brush in turn and checking every other brush in the map to see if it can 'merge' the two. You have the option to merge selected brushes, those only with matching textures or those that fullfill some rather technical numerical parameters, which are way beyond my comprehension. After I had shut down all background tasks, it took about 4 hours to do.
It probably has a very clever algorithm to avoid double checking as one of the counters goes from 1 to the maximum number of brushes, and the other seems to always count to a number less than the maximum number.
The program was written by Yahn Bernier who is now on the Half Life2 (or is it Doom3) team. I have always used his editor it has the most Micrsoft feel of all that I have seen. Ooops, I might have given something away there.
Its only drawback is that the 3D window draws fairly slowly i.e. the more brushes in your map, the longer it takes to walk around, hence me always wanting to compile regularly to view the map.
Hope that helps.
That Particular
#1368 posted by aguirRe [62.127.26.124] on 2004/03/08 18:15:01
sentence was my [obviously] bad attempt to describe a situation in one of the tdk maps.
You had to cross a bridge by walking beside it (in thin air) and right after that, you had to "know" that you should walk right into a seemingly solid rock wall (unmarked) and thus find the path onwards to the next part of this puzzle pak.
Thus gameflow was very confusing, since you sometimes had to use invisible clipbrushes for support and then stumble through a func_illusionary brush to proceed.
Play the pak and you'll probably see what I mean.
AguirRe
#1369 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.85.118] on 2004/03/08 18:35:03
Ah, now I understand. It is not my kind of map at all: I have never liked attempts to mimic reality e.g. trees, normal buildings, furniture etc. Also wide open spaces with nothing going on.
Like I said earlier, seven years ago this was probably the dogs but some of our current mappers have moved everything on light-years ahead of this.
The only time I can remember clip-brushes alone being used for support successfully was in a map with an Indiana Jones theme and you had to cross a chasm using a 'leap of faith', just like Indie did :-)
Preach
#1370 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.1.152] on 2004/03/09 01:33:58
I e-mailed you re your mod but BT bounced it?
Yes Demon King
#1371 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2004/03/09 02:31:25
have some conceptually good ideas.
but the implementation was poor.
resulting in a somewhat frustrating experience.
Mods And Sods
#1372 posted by Preach [81.129.96.194] on 2004/03/09 06:25:01
Mike: yeah, typo in the e-mail in the readme there, should be andrew not andre. Hopefully that should get it through.
The Demon King
#1373 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/09 11:10:22
Am I the only one who gets reminded of bananas by the name "The Demon King"?
Yeah
#1374 posted by czg [80.202.31.20] on 2004/03/09 11:42:30
You are.
Demon King
#1375 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.91.25] on 2004/03/09 14:23:52
Field hockey.
#1376 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/09 14:28:49
Google claims this is the Demon King. and I agree!
http://www.nongnit.net/khonmask/km...
Run Out Of Ideas.
#1377 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/09 18:42:36
So I've built pretty much all of my new spacebase rubicon map (q1sp), but I've run out of steam.
All I need is a decent idea for a boss combat in order to gain the silver key. Answers on a postcard.
Cheers.
How About
#1378 posted by czg [80.202.31.20] on 2004/03/09 19:04:47
A mechanical Ridley from Metroid that does nothing except sitting in the right-hand corner looking sad, while you fire goddamned rockets into it's heart!
This might have been done before tho...
Colored Lights...
#1379 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/10 09:35:28
Hello,
I've seen on some Quake 1 screenshot that it should be possible (I say "should" because I've never found a map performing that) to colored light entities. For Example, I would like to generate a red halo around a invicibility pentagram, or a blue one around a Quad Damage item, etc.. Who knows how to do that ??
Bye
#1380 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/10 09:53:34
those halos you see are standard GLQuake additions John Carmack added to those ents.
Colored light in standard Quake is impossible. It's added to most custom engines now, most using the .lit format. Basically you use tyrlight or another light program that supports it, and set all your lights you want colored with a 'color' key (may be differant, look in the light programs readme) set to the RGB values you want, like '255 0 255' for ugly neon purple. You'll now have a .bsp and a .lit. The map will light normally in standard Quake, or in a custom engine, as long as the .lit is in the /maps/ dir with the .bsp, it'll use the colored lights.
Colored Liht
#1381 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/10 10:00:02
and does arghlite support colored lights ?
Jplambert
#1382 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/10 10:32:27
no
.lit
#1383 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/10 11:09:26
For colored lights, you need TyrLite. You can get it from Tyrann's website here:
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/
Tyrlight...
#1384 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/03/10 13:34:42
...also supports EVERYTHING arghlite has, loads more, so it's worth upgrading anyway.
Colored Lights
#1385 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 02:18:11
OK, TyrLite allows colered lights feature, I will try it as soon as possible... Just one more question...
Is it possible to add some RGB field values in QuArK entity descriptor (during light processing it should generate .lit file automatically), or do I need to write myself the .lit file, changing manually my needed RGB value...??
Thanks
Colored Lights
#1386 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.237.54] on 2004/03/11 02:54:24
I don't know about QuArk, but I guess it would be similar, I use GTK Radiant, but you put in the key
_color
and the values
X X X
X being a number between 0 and 255
If you aren't sure about what numbers would represent which colouors, you could find that info in Photoshop/Paint Shop Pro, by selecting the color and it will tell you the RGB values,
or http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/ gives you a little 216 color dodad that allows you to do the same.
You also need to add the -lit switch to your tyrlite compile process/bat file, eg
tyrlite.exe -extra -lit yourmaphere.bsp
that will create your .lit file for you, you don't create it yourself.
Lenny Lurker
#1387 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 03:23:21
Thanks, for the infos... I'll check TyrLite vs QuArK possibilities as soon as possible, hoping it will works the first time.. Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???
Bye...
JPLambert
#1388 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.237.54] on 2004/03/11 03:25:30
That is an interesting way of spelling "Vondur" you have there on your Quake page :)
Hmm
#1389 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.233.246] on 2004/03/11 03:43:41
Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???
I am not entirely sure that we are both climbing the same tree, but I don't think that is the way to go, or indeed possible, if possible I am sure it would be time consuming.
Putting the key and values for the lights, in the entity dodad, in you level editor , is where it's at
Damned Shit...
#1390 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 03:47:20
That's not the correct typo of his name !!! He is going to kill me !!!...
OK, it's an big mistake, but I've build this website in 15 minutes yesterday by night, so be indulgent with me please...... I will correct this as son as possible... I apologies again ...
Anyway...
I've named some of the guys who help me since 1 month I started mapping... And I think there where some others will be added.. (perhaps a grouped thank should be better to avoid such error on name typo ;-)...)
As I said in a previous post, I'm a beginner in Quake mapping, and I'm currently building my first map, with my poor possibilities.. hoping it will be as good as possible..
Thanks...
Problem...
#1391 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 03:53:27
.. I'm not able to download TyrLite... the fileplanet website rejects me (while I suscribed last month)... Could you send me a TyrLite version ??? You have my e-mail on my scrappy website...
Lol
#1392 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.233.246] on 2004/03/11 03:55:42
Just stick with it, and try to go through to the end, try not to ditch the map, it doesn't really matter if it's not up to other peoples standards or anything (there are some HIGH standards among this bunch) the main thing is that you enjoy what you are doing, the rest is a bonus. And you will only improve.
It's On It's Way
#1393 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.233.246] on 2004/03/11 04:03:52
I Agree...
#1394 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 04:26:16
.. I really found pleasure building my own map, and that's the most important for sure...
As I try to explain (perhaps not very clearly) on my website, it is a challenging way to improve my knowledges in mapping development.. even if I really begin in this "mapping world"...
When my first map will be released, I hope to have feedback about my work (by those who will try the map...)... more good feedback than bad will be pleasant naturally ;-))...
Thanks for TyrLite zip file... I will try it this evening...
Thanks again for your help...
Bye
Interested Parties...
#1395 posted by Fern [66.31.200.93] on 2004/03/11 08:38:30
can probably download tyrlite here but I don't even remember what version it is :)
http://www.suspenlute.com/01
About TyrLite
#1396 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/11 08:45:34
Yes, you are right, it is posible to download a TyrLite v0.9... but Lenny had sent me his 0.95 this morning... Anyway, thank for the link, there also exists some texture to download... cool
Bye
/me Kills JPLambert
#1397 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/03/11 13:08:51
go fix the typo! :)
Hey!
#1398 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/11 13:24:14
Don't be mean VonDrup!
Anyone?
#1399 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.6.129] on 2004/03/11 16:21:32
Is there a maximum gradient down which an Ogre cannot move?
I have an Ogre on a ledge and I want to ecourage him to move down a slope (not stairs, just a slope.) But he don't wanna do it! He just jigs around at the top of the slope.
Ecourage?
#1400 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.6.129] on 2004/03/11 16:24:25
Is that like e-commerce, e-tailing or e-mail i.e. transmitting courage electronically?
NO! I meant encourage.
#1401 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/11 16:27:55
Just put a little monster jump trigger on the top edge of the slope so he pops onto the slope and is free to roam. The problem you're having is due to the slope and the flat floor meeting and the orge not wanting to cross it.
Scampie
#1402 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.6.129] on 2004/03/11 17:06:49
Thanks.
There Actually Is A Maximum Gradient...
#1403 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/11 17:22:24
but i couldn't tell you exactly what it is, without going home and studying the source. It has to do with the ogre not wanting any of his bounding box corners to be too high off the ground, i think.
JPLambert Or Lenny
#1404 posted by Fern [172.203.85.159] on 2004/03/11 20:50:07
please email me Tyrlite 0.95 and I'll update the site. :)
suspenlute@aol.com
Fern
#1405 posted by Lenny Lurker [138.130.235.71] on 2004/03/11 23:40:48
No problem. It has been sent. Also, you can download it from Tyrann's site (well FilePlanet actually), I just tried the link again, and it works fine. The file name says 0.95, at the top of the readme it says version 0.94, but scroll down the read me further to the change log stuff, and it says 0.95, It's listed as 0.95 on Tyrann's site so I guess that's what it is.
Vondur
#1406 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/12 02:25:42
Sorry about the typo error of your pseudo... I've not found time to fix it.. and sure it will be done as soon as possible, maybe this evening, or tomorrow... I apologize again...
:)
#1407 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/12 03:08:37
ok :)
Okay...
#1408 posted by Fern [172.162.63.210] on 2004/03/12 06:31:19
Well I've mirrored it now along with his nifty caulk-texture-in-q1 proggy which I forgot to add to the index, thank you ;)
#1409 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/03/12 07:34:10
CAULK IN Q1???
WHAT IS THIS HERESY???
Hmmm
#1410 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/12 08:10:04
According to LTH, I think caulk in Quake is not a good thing.. (See post 1245 to 1249, thanks to Vondur help !!!)... Some map builders don't link automatically animated texture. The turnaround is to use unused brushe faces that will be cut off by QBSP...... So the texture list is completed...With a caulking tool, you avoid all animated texture effects.... bad idea... sorry...
Errrr
#1411 posted by Fern [64.12.116.81] on 2004/03/12 09:47:23
I remember this big argument over whether "skip" in q1 is the same thing as "skip" in q3 and I thought we decided it was actually the same thing as caulk...
whatever, it's a cool program :P
#1412 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/12 10:18:43
caulk is skip in q3.
skip in q2 is a slightly differant animal I do believe.
And...
#1413 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/12 10:50:50
... how to turnaround animated texture probelm with caulk program ???
JP
#1414 posted by Fern [172.174.214.83] on 2004/03/12 11:18:42
that's the thing... you don't... it has absolutely nothing to do with animated textures. dunno where that came from.
Wc Help
#1415 posted by opt1c [24.116.186.127] on 2004/03/12 11:56:42
how do i add the map name to the bsp so it shows up when in the +showscores?
In Worldcraft
#1416 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/03/12 12:02:24
go to the "map" dropdown menu at the top and select "map properties", then there will be an entry for "map title" or somesuch, just plonk the name in there.
.
#1417 posted by opt1c [24.116.186.127] on 2004/03/12 12:04:36
I figured it would be in the map properties, but there is no 'map title'... ill just add it and see if it works.
Titles In Worldcraft
#1418 posted by Preach [81.129.125.102] on 2004/03/12 12:28:01
With the copy of the quake.fgd I have, the entry you need to add the name to is "text on entering the world", which is a little misleading on worldcraft's part, but works well enough
What Preach Said
#1419 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/12 13:00:27
but if all else fails...
use the 'add' button on the map properties window to create a new key called 'message' and set it to whatever you want to title your map
Texture Difficulties
#1420 posted by Drew [142.173.154.167] on 2004/03/12 19:53:20
Hey, I'm trying to make my entry for sm72, but when I did a quick test run I noticed that quite a few of the light textures were off. They'd usually be sixteen units off or so, and this always happened on the faces of brushes that were at 45 degree angles, I think. I guess I'll fix it manually, but does anyone know why that happens/how to fix it?
Try...
#1421 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/12 20:05:40
qbsp -oldaxis
i'm not sure which compilers support this, but i know treeqbsp and its variants do.
Wasn't It
#1422 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/03/12 21:08:36
-alternateaxis?
Axis Options
#1423 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.124] on 2004/03/13 03:40:30
It's -oldaxis in all TreeQBSP/DuBSP variants as metl says, -alternateaxis in wqbsp and TxQBSP doesn't need this option at all.
All above applies when using WorldCraft 1.6, possibly when using other versions or editors too.
Help With Texmex
#1424 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.10.191] on 2004/03/14 06:21:05
I have used Texmex on and off for ages. I built some new wads last week (just extracts of other wads, no new textures) and went to edit one of these today and Texmex no longer displays!
A window opens and the titile bar clearly shows the wad I have opened but the window is a blank white screen.
Anyone had this before?
I've Actually Had
#1425 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.7] on 2004/03/14 10:33:06
this problem too in the last couple of days, since I've been testing a lot of texture stuff.
TexMex seems to have problems, especially with wad3 files and the palettes. I previously thought that TexMex should be doing this right, but now I'm not so sure anymore.
I've seen it trashing texture entries when converting to wad3 format. Mike, the wad you're opening might be corrupt. If you wish, you could send the zipped wad to me and I'll try to see what's wrong.
I'm currently working on a wad utility DupWad, that can delete textures from a specific wad that already exist with the same name in other wads.
AguirRe
#1426 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.10.191] on 2004/03/14 14:21:59
Aha! It is obviously the 13th March Texmex bug that disables all versions of Texmex?
The .wad file in question loads OK in my BspEditor and is usable, and Texmex will not load any of my other .wad files.
I am using Wally and AdQuedit instead so it is not the end of the world. But Texmex was my preferred utility.
Thanks for your offer and what on earth are you doing with the weather over there? The temperature is set to rise to +4C on Wednesday and that's when I land. It'll be like a giant Slushpuppy up there.
The Red Stuff
#1427 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.210] on 2004/03/14 15:24:03
you see coming down the slopes is just some *lava we put there for your enjoyment ...
I'd still appreciate the zipped wad to see what's causing the TexMex problem.
Wad Is On Its Way...
#1428 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.10.191] on 2004/03/14 16:00:31
And by the way, I am watching a program called "Avalanche Alert" on UK TV right now!
Curve And Arch
#1429 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/15 05:48:24
Hello,
Where can I found an "easy" mathematical description to understand clearly how works Bezier Curve and Arch tool shaper ?? In QuArK, this feature is really to "lightly described" to have a complete understood of the stuff...
Thanks
Gorgot My Last Post...
#1430 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/15 07:28:06
I've found what I was looking for with
http://www.moshplant.com/direct-or...
Bye...
More Texture Problems
#1431 posted by Drew [198.53.9.133] on 2004/03/15 15:00:31
Though of a different variety. I recently downloaded the quake 2 wad off of RPG's .wad page, and when I loaded it up in WC the textures looked very odd. When I loaded the wad file up in Texmex it looked fine. I emailed RPG about this and he wasn't sure what the deal was either. I don't really know how to describe the way the textures looked... fucked up should suffice. Does anybody know whats up with this file?
http://www.spawnpoint.org/wads/q2t...
#1432 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/03/15 20:08:34
open up the wad in texmex, delete the palette. let it convert the textures to Quake palette and save the wad (or save it as something differant if you want). I don't see any differance myself... but anyway, after doing this, the textures will appear normal in WC.
And To Be Clearer...
#1433 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.96] on 2004/03/15 20:10:08
by 'the palette' I mean, the texture at the bottom of the wad named palette.
Thanks
#1434 posted by Drew [198.53.9.133] on 2004/03/16 03:07:56
that worked perfectly, thanks for your help.
Modeling For Ultimate Deathmatch
#1435 posted by Shadowalker [207.154.80.176] on 2004/03/16 15:19:50
#1283 posted by LTH I can make technical (ie. not monster) models.
Great, did you get my email?
as
#1436 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/16 20:09:24
#1283 posted by LTH: "I'm quite busy right now though"
Maping For UD
#1437 posted by Shadowalker [207.154.80.185] on 2004/03/17 15:35:15
Not my question, I read that part. Did you recieve my email? So, I know I have a valid email to contact you with.
as
#1438 posted by LTH [144.32.128.68] on 2004/03/18 04:46:12
I got one from you a while back, yes.
About Gamma Field...
#1439 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/18 08:27:20
Hello,
I would like to have further information about gamma field use.. I've heard some of you calling about this feature but it remains mysterious for me... Is there someone who can explain me the stuff ???
Thanks
Bey
#1440 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/18 10:12:53
Help! Someone causes gammabusters....
MadFox
#1441 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/18 10:26:55
I've read your post 742 in screenshot and beta thread and it seems you used this feature... how to deal with this stuff ?? Can you breafly explain me ???
Pale Moon
#1442 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/18 10:52:01
Screenshots of Quake always look dark and blurry, so I load them in PaintShopPro and then use the Adjust => Gamma => 1.80
By doing this the whole picture becomes more bright to look at.
I find this better then the original, because it compensates the dimm colours of screenshots.
If you mean a game option in the Quake-engine for -gamma field use- , I am fishing with Cassini...
MadFox
#1443 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/18 11:11:57
Oh, that's it... I thought it was a mapping feature or a compilation option that increases global light level.. (like -light option with TyrLite tool)... I've made this manipulation using ULead Pals2Go software (Photo modification and morphing software), but the result is not very good (see my web site at http://lambert.jeanphilippe.free.f... : the screenshots are still very dark...) anyway..
I think I have to made more test to find a turnaround of this problem..
Thanks
Don't Listened To My Babling...
#1444 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/18 11:24:48
you could be right for the mapping feather, which I don't know...
I was only joking about it, that's why I can't see the difference between Neptune & Saturn.
PaintShopPro has a trial version, it could entlighten your screenshots hughly!
...
#1445 posted by underworldfan [128.195.84.154] on 2004/03/18 12:03:29
hehe.
i like the idea of "enlightened screenshots".
MadFox
#1446 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/19 02:04:50
I also have a PSP version, but I have to install it.. so I will make a try to "enlight" my screenshot at my next release.... Thanks for the advice...
Q1 Tools Update
#1447 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.121] on 2004/03/19 06:08:11
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are local minlights (delay 4) in Light, wildcards in wad specifications in compilers and a new wad tool for deleting duplicate textures. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Message During Game Start
#1448 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/19 06:43:37
Hello,
I would Like to add a start message (Like map title or developper name, etc..) in the Quake console during start up (or during map loading).. Who knows how to do that ??
Thanks
Message
#1449 posted by VoreLord [138.130.229.234] on 2004/03/19 06:47:20
In Worldspawn, add a key "message" and add what you want to say in the value field.
(No quotation marks of course)
Message...
#1450 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/19 07:19:05
OK, this generates the required message on one line... but if I want to add more than one line messages, do I need to add key "message" as many as required lines ???
#1451 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/03/19 08:08:54
you use /n, which specifies 'new line'
example
"message" "My map/nBy: Me!"
It may be \n... haven't ever used it myself, but pretty sure it's /n
Scampie
#1452 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/19 08:20:58
All right, I will make the test this evening... Thanks for the info...
Newline
#1453 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.183] on 2004/03/19 08:44:04
is \n and if the map is SP, you shouldn't use them because then save games might not work.
Need Registerd EntEd
#1454 posted by Gunter [198.211.101.4] on 2004/03/19 14:16:38
I have a program called EntEd for Quake which is supposed to allow me to edit the entities in a Quake map...
Unfourtunately, the unregesterd version will not edit .bsp files... only .map files.... and the home page for the program is long dead, and I'm sure it's no longer being developed... Does anyone have a registration key for it or know where to get the registered version?
Or, any other *small* uncomplicated program that will allow me to edit entities in a .bsp file?
Gunter: Adquedit
#1455 posted by Preach [81.129.58.89] on 2004/03/19 14:29:44
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/id... can extract the entities out of a bsp, and into a file that can be edited in notepad. The interface is a little clunky, but it's managable. It's pretty small too : - )
Or...
#1456 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/19 18:35:02
you can just open the bsp in wordpad and copy out the entity data -- it's in plain text near the end. Then save it as .map and recompile the bsp using -onlyents.
(or edit the bsp in wordpad and save it -- this shouldn't work, but i've tried it before and it seemed to work anyway. I don't know why :)
Or Better Yet,
#1457 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/03/19 18:35:21
use quark (any version).
it will allow you to open up a bsp file into the editor. you cannot actually modify any geometry, including bmodels, but you can edit all entities.
Necros
#1458 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.94] on 2004/03/20 21:59:02
metlslime is going hard core, man. Next he'll forego editors all together and write out the coordinates of his next level by hand ;)
Well...
#1459 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/20 23:18:58
I did have to use wordpad to align textures on my first map, since Thred didn't have texture alignment.
And I Dare
#1460 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.191] on 2004/03/21 05:26:18
pat myself on the back for being able to align three point bevel cuts with GTKRadiant. False pride.
Strange Error
#1461 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 01:52:18
Hello,
I have a strange error during holes creation... I use a platform where I add some holes whith an Hollow Maker entity. I've created 6 holes and the TxQBSP tool compiles the map without any problems... When I had the 7th hole, here is the error message I found:
SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (5112 1083 -992), metal2_5
I don't understand why this error appears, furthermore there is no polygon at these coordonates !!
Is there anyone who have an idea about it ??
Thanks...
JPL
#1462 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/22 02:47:17
Do not use hollow tool! EVER!
About Hollow Tool
#1463 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 03:08:48
So how can I create hole(s) in wall(s) without using Hollow Maker ??? This is described like this in QuArK user guide...
JPL
#1464 posted by VoreLord [138.130.239.138] on 2004/03/22 03:45:37
You can, like build the wall around the hole if you get what I mean. If your wall is to have a square hole, you would create your wall with 4 brushes, more complex hole(s) would require more complex construction
JPL
#1465 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/22 03:46:00
You can use hollow tool but onlu on the simple brushes and with care. Try making holes manually. That's much more safer.
For Example...
#1466 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 03:52:57
I'm currently trying to build a platform with at least 10 holes in order to have a pentagram-like top view.. This very hard to perform a good texture alignement with at least 4 angles values (36, 54, 18, and 72 degrees !!!) I have to use hollow maker with cube and wedge to build this... So what is the good method ?
PS: I found the answer about my first question in AguirRe Quake Tool Tips.. Thanks AguirRe !!!
JPL
#1467 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/22 04:27:57
the only good method is making it all manually using edge & vertex manipulation and manual texture alignment. otherwise you'll die fighting compile errors.
#1468 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2004/03/22 04:39:26
jpl do yourself a favor and learn a proper editor
Vondur
#1469 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 05:03:50
OK, thanks for the advice... It's going to be very long to build my "pentagram platform" but if it's the only way to build it, there is no other choice for me....
Bye...
"jpl Do Yourself A Favor And Learn A Proper Editor"
#1470 posted by . [172.129.206.44] on 2004/03/22 05:18:29
it's not what you use it's how you use it.
Gibbie & Phait
#1471 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 05:30:19
Yes, sure that I make some big mistakes with my mapping tool (QuArK today) But I'm pretty young with this "job"... and like beginner, I'm less experimented than all of you... so please, don't be cruel with me... I'm just looking for advices to improve me...
Perhaps my questions are stupid (for you), but just remind when you start to build maps... Didn't you used the "getting started" file and made (lot of) trys before becoming "pros" ??? I discovered QuArK at the beginning of February... so please be tolerant...
Thanks...
Yes
#1472 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/22 05:49:36
gibbie, fek off u meanie basid! :)
Jpl
#1473 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/22 05:50:41
btw, join #terrafusion channel on irc.gamesurge.net and get hotline mapping support from all of us :)
Vondur..
#1474 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 05:59:21
... YOU ARE A NOBLE MAN ....
Good That You
#1475 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.59] on 2004/03/22 06:30:41
found the answer to your SubdivideFace question, try looking first in the ToolTips before posting. If you can't find the answer, just post here and maybe we can improve the contents to cover more ground.
And there's nothing wrong with QuArK, I've been using it myself for a long time. It's got its fair share of quirks and problems just like most other editors (or software in general).
AguirRe
#1476 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 07:11:25
You are right, It must be a reflex to have a look at the tool tips before posting some questions.. I'm going to print it... ;-)
Vondur
#1477 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/22 08:13:55
Sorry, unable to connect irc.gamesurge.net due to our office network fire-wall that doesn't authorize the connection... See you soon on this forum...
Bye..
#1478 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2004/03/22 08:51:26
it's not what you use it's how you use it.
Not always the case. QuArK (if I remember rightly) uses floating point gridvalues and can have trouble aligning complicated brushes to the grid, which can cause all kinds of problems, no matter how good a mapper you are. I know this was definitely the case with Qoole, but I seem to remember gibbie himself having similar problems with QuArK back with SM32.
JPLambert
#1479 posted by . [172.168.94.110] on 2004/03/22 13:30:16
I think you misunderstood what I was saying - I was being supportive of *you* ;)
It's Not What You Use It's How You Use It
#1480 posted by pushplay [129.128.41.13] on 2004/03/22 19:23:39
By that logic I should be able to create quake maps using only two marbles, a pack of sugar free gum, and an 8-track recording of Scorpions - Rock You Like A Hurricane. But not even MacGuyver could do that.
.
#1481 posted by [Jimbo] [65.161.73.251] on 2004/03/22 20:00:29
MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage.
Right,
#1482 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/22 20:45:47
Just like a good driver can win a race no matter what car he drives.
Whatever
#1483 posted by . [172.209.60.156] on 2004/03/22 22:00:45
We're talking level editors here, not other shit. Granted some editors ARE better than others but bottom line who gives a fuck what anyone uses. If they want to use something you're shoving down their throats, they'll use it either in due time or never.
Old Quake1 Saying
#1484 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/22 23:18:09
Can't they take the axe out of it?
#1485 posted by . [172.209.60.156] on 2004/03/22 23:24:21
"MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage."
Speedmap theme: MacGuyver.
Hmmmm,
#1486 posted by VoreLord [138.130.239.142] on 2004/03/23 01:41:19
I wish it was
"It's not how you use it, it's what you use",
then maybe I would be good at mapping, but alas
Phait...
#1487 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/23 03:31:33
It was not against your post... I understood what you wanted to say... I apologize if you were "hurt"... but gibbie post seems a little bit more "ironical"... I'm here to find mapping help, not meany remarks about my poor knowledges on mapping tool....
Anyway... I've no problem to deal with "bad boys".. ;-D
Hurt?
#1488 posted by . [172.150.152.174] on 2004/03/23 09:35:31
Heheh.. no.
Yes
#1489 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/23 13:08:48
as long as your support tends to suppose...
Again One Problem
#1490 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 02:20:33
Hello,
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Thanks..
Again One Problem
#1491 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 02:23:44
Hello,
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Thanks..
Sorry For Double Post...
#1492 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 02:25:02
Hm
#1493 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/25 03:29:45
probably there's an error brush in that area.
try rebuilding the floor there.
and sigh, quark is evile....
Yet Done..
#1494 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 03:35:57
I tried this: I added brush platform on the "base-ground", and I carefully aligned the texture with my pillars, and walls... Same effect.. Furthermore I don't have any warning or error during TxQBSP compilation... It only misses the pts file to test pointfile command in the Quake console... I also tried a full building (TxQBSP + RVis + TyrLite) instead of fast one (TxQBSP + TyrLite)... no effect....
Hm
#1495 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/25 03:45:45
check if the floor brushes have proper textures. i.e. no tex mix like floor+sky or floo+liquid on one brush. that should give an error in compiler, but still check it...
Right
#1496 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 03:57:15
I'll check if the texture applied is the same on all brushe's face.. It's perhaps not the case... And how to generate a pts file ???
Jpl
#1497 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/25 05:07:44
it gets generated only if the map is leaked...
Vondur
#1498 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 05:21:02
Could you explain me a little bit more pleae ?? I'm not sure to understand clearly "leaked map" concept....
JPLambert
#1499 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.114] on 2004/03/25 05:49:50
You'll only get a pts file if the maps leaks, i.e. there is somehow an opening from an entity inside to the void outside. Falling through a corrupt floor brush inside the map doesn't cause a leak.
Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Jpl
#1500 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/25 05:53:16
what bengt said and this:
http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr...
Quick Fix
#1501 posted by Fern [172.167.92.114] on 2004/03/25 05:55:02
Make the bad brush a func_wall.
&*
#1502 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2004/03/25 06:20:08
probably off grid brushes creating errors. quark does that a lot. use a better editor :)
OK...
#1503 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 07:05:02
.. I'm not able to check anything now: I'm at office :( grrrr...
So I'll take a look this evening trying each solutions you gave me... hoping at least one will works...
aguirRe, I will send you zipped map and wad if I don't find any turnaround... thanks for your contribution..
Thanks a lot everybody..
I Forgot To
#1504 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.57] on 2004/03/25 08:42:51
mention that you don't need a pts file to find the problem here; you fall through it ... The dotted line would probably only pass through this brush anyway.
Also note that in many cases, it's not the actual penetrable brush that is the culprit. Often it's a neighbour brush or in some cases even a bad brush junction that's not in the immediate neighbourhood.
It can certainly be a challenge to fix. I'd appreciate the map even if you do find a cure; there's always something new to learn from it.
AguirRe
#1505 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 09:00:36
I will do my best to solve the problem myself in a first time... If I find the problem, I'll send you a mail for further explanations if you like... or a post here... anyway...If I can't solve the problem this evening, I'll send you the files.. hoping it's only a mistake coming from me and not from the tool...
I will see this in a few hours now...
I Dont Remember..
#1506 posted by . [172.147.59.187] on 2004/03/25 09:51:27
if the player start is stuck in a floor brush if it falls through or is just stuck... maybe.
Player Start...
#1507 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/25 10:10:11
.. placed too near a brush make the player stucked.. and a possible HOM problem as well... The player can be blocked partially inside the brush and can't moove, he can just rotate left, right up or down... but walking is impossible... I made this mistake in my first trys...
HOM Only For Scrags...
#1508 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/25 14:15:55
I got the same problem. I found a solution, by sealing the the brush over the HOM-creating area with another one. I don't know if it works with a floor.
About Post 1490-1491
#1509 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/26 02:33:21
I solved my problem, thanks everybody who helped me and gave me the good lucky "inspiration"...
In fact, it was a minor problem not detected by TxQBSP... (I don't know why, but it seems to be normal..)..
I had two brushes (a platform and a wall) orthogonaly placed, enclosed each other by a corner of each one face... It results in a "one dot separating line" between floor and wall... (don't know if it's clear...) TxQBSP didn't see this and never found any warnings or errors... (No holes found, no off-grid brushes, no bad aligned textures, etc... TxQBSP works correctly because the map seemed to be correctly build... ) but during the game, the player fall throught the floor !!! The map leak... shit ....
So after many trys, many investigations, walking slowly to detect clearly were is the leak.... falling many times, dying a lot as well... I finally found it...
Lucky I was trying to increase a little the size of the 2 brushes, in order to overlap each other... and the miracle occurs: no more leak, it works !!!
Sure it was a beginner error, but happy I am to find it by myself...
Bye...
:)
#1510 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/03/26 03:27:52
do not use quark :>
I Try To Do...
#1511 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/26 03:36:19
... my best with what I have... But QuArK seems not to be as bad as someone think... QuArK required perhaps more care than other tools during mapping effort... Perhaps you only need to be more precise using it... Furthermore, it is a pretty good editor to start mapping with... that's my beginner opinion...
Good To Hear
#1512 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.32] on 2004/03/26 05:18:47
that you fixed the problem. However, there can be more such clipping errors and they might not be as obvious as this one. E.g. walking into a corner and falling into a position where you'll have to noclip to get out.
Look in my ToolTips in the "Hull Explanation" section for more info. To make the clipping errors more visible, add the qbsp options -hull 1 -solid -noents and watch out for HOMs in the map.
The HOMs indicate areas where the compiler has problems with the player clipping hull.
AguiRe:
#1513 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/26 05:22:44
i've noticed problems with using clip brushes in a bmodel. It seems like it ought to work; is there anything you can tell us about why it doesn't? How easy would it be to add this functionality to qbsp? (i know, i could probably look at the source myself, but it's late and i'm tired and you might know off the top of your head.)
AguirRe
#1514 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/26 05:23:59
Good idea you have !!! Thanks a lot for this advice.. I'l try it as soon as possible...
Another more question: do you think these kind of problems are coming from QuArK bug (especially during map file writting) or from TxQBSP compilation that pass throught it ??
Metlslime
#1515 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.163] on 2004/03/26 08:47:27
In brush.c there is a specific check for texture clip in the visible hull (0), same area as the check for liquid brushes in clip hulls (1/2).
I don't know why it's there, my assumption would be that the engines don't like it (maybe you could check that).
Anyway, why is this a problem at all?
JPLambert
#1516 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.163] on 2004/03/26 08:54:47
I didn't quite understand your explanation of the cause of the problem so I can't say with the information at hand.
This is one of the reasons why I asked for the map, then I can see for myself what the problem is, a possible cure and if there are other issues that you haven't spotted yet.
I'd be glad to help, but I need the zipped map+wad to investigate further.
AguirRe
#1517 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/26 09:03:29
OK, sorry for my poor english... I have to improve it too ;-)
I'll try to send you a zipped map+wad file as soon as possible.. (next Monday later...) but it will be the corrected map... I didn't saved the corrupt one... :(
Anyway, I hope you can give me advices about my mapping way.. that may be not as good as "pros" can do...
Thanks...
JPLambert
#1518 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.144] on 2004/03/26 11:08:22
Your English is fine. Your syntax and word choice is intelligeable to any English native. I think aquirRe was referring to the technical nature of your explanation. Believe me, you sound like James Joyce compared to an unmentioned else person.
HeadThump
#1519 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/26 11:25:30
Oh... it's great for me to hear this... thanks a lot...
What HeadThump Said
#1520 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.111] on 2004/03/26 12:47:57
Sometimes it's very difficult to describe 3D-issues in plain <insert language here>. Combined with fluent Q1 tech speak, it probably sounds like gibberish to the man on the street ...
Bable Fish...
#1521 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/26 13:43:55
...pourqoi est le peuple d'un pays très grandes
si volunté responder les questions dans un autre langue, quand ils comprende le bon mot...
one day you'll return, Pink Panther
AguiRe:
#1522 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/26 14:04:05
based on your description, it's obvious that the checks are for when to ignore a brush -- liquids aren't used for collision (hulls 1/2), and clip isn't ever visible (hull0.) But, does that make any distinction between a bsp model and the world?
The specific problem case i have is a fake ladder (one of those really steep clip staircases on top of a visible ladder) which is a func_door so that it can slide up out of the floor.
MadFox
#1523 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.66] on 2004/03/26 14:30:01
That poke was for the Beavis and Butthead poem many moons ago. Yes, I am petty that way.
Clip Brushes
#1524 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.126] on 2004/03/26 15:13:57
Well, if all brushes in a bmodel are invalid (for that hull), Brush_LoadEntity will return NULL and that will generate the Entity with no valid brushes ... error message.
Since the world usually has more brushes than a func_door (sic!), it's more likely that the world will actually have at least one non-clip brush so hull 0 is OK.
I haven't tried any of this, but I guess that if you only have clip brushes in the world entity, you'd get that error message too in hull 0. Correspondingly also in hulls 1/2 if you only have liquid brushes.
Maybe an upcoming speedmap theme? Or not.
Testing
#1525 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.108] on 2004/03/26 15:51:25
Blocking out the clip check only results in a visible clip brush (that also works). However, using the standard qbsp and a func_door with one normal brush and one clip brush is a bit strange.
No complaints from qbsp, there is no visible clip brush in-game but it doesn't seem to be there either (hull 1). The normal func_door brush is there as always.
When moving close to where the clip brush should be, the engine (FQ) behaves a bit jerky, I don't know how to describe it.
Another Quick Fix...
#1526 posted by Fern [172.134.127.246] on 2004/03/26 23:43:21
make one func_door for the visible ladder and another one for the invisible stairs... and for the second one use this thing instead of a clip brush:
http://www.suspenlute.com/01/skipp...
Fern:
#1527 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/26 23:52:42
Yeah, i thought of that (actually, RPG thought of it.) It works, but it seems like a clip brush OUGHT to work, and if we can figure out the fix, i'd like to have aguire add it to qbsp.
Aguire:
#1528 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/27 05:48:15
i'm looking through the quake source to see if this could somehow be caused by engine code. In the past I've noticed that some physics routines actually use hull 0 for specific things, so maybe this is another case of that happening.
OK
#1529 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.40] on 2004/03/27 05:59:02
As I mentioned above, you can use any standard qbsp with bmodel clip brushes as long as there's at least one non-clip brush in it (which doesn't even have to be visible).
So I don't think a change in the compilers is necessary (or at this point, even desired). But it would be interesting to know what's causing the engine behaviour above. I tried Tyr-Quake also and it seemed to behave similarly.
Aguire:
#1530 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/03/27 20:53:19
maybe i didn't explain it clearly -- I already DO have clip and non-clip brushes in one func_door, and it doesn't work. Anyway, i'm still looking.
Metlslime
#1531 posted by Mr Fribbles [203.113.200.146] on 2004/03/29 00:47:43
I have successfully had clip and non-clip brushes in a bmodel before.. without a problem.
It Sounds Stupid
#1532 posted by Fern [172.169.183.214] on 2004/03/29 05:13:01
...but maybe it has something to do with whetherthe non-clip brushes are touching the clip brushes?
In My Test
#1533 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.137] on 2004/03/29 05:21:40
the brushes were not touching in hull 0 but they were near one another, so it's possible that they melted together in the clip hulls.
Map File Checking
#1534 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/29 06:11:36
Hello,
Is there a tool that can help to check map file before any compilation ? This in order to avoid crashes, HOM, leaks, etc... It will be helpfull to detect any warnings/errors/problems (like off-grid polygons, unaligned textures, etc..) before starting to build bsp files..
Thanks
Re: Map File Checking
#1535 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/03/29 08:19:38
Try MapSpy:
http://mapspy.gamedesign.net/
It's designed for Quake 2, but it checks for all sorts of other brush problems. Just ignore the Quake 2-specific stuff.
...
After re-reading your post, it sounds like MapSpy isn't really what you want (it doesn't check for unaligned textures or HOMs, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't check for off-grid polygons or leaks). But it's a small download, so you might still want to try it out.
Since You're Using
#1536 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.45] on 2004/03/29 08:58:55
QuArK, there are a few things in the Search menu that can help in finding potentially bad brushes, e.g. Find Microbrushes. Just be careful when using some auto-fix option, make sure you have a backup before.
For texture alignment there are several helpful things in the right-click menu of a selected face, e.g. Wrap texture from tagged.
Otherwise I think it's the compilers that offer the most useful checks since they are actually the tools that translate your map into bsp.
Compile now and then to see that the map is OK and always save various generations of your map so you can recover if anything bad should happen.
RPG & AguirRe
#1537 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/03/29 10:14:17
Thanks for the link and these infos about QuArK... I wil try to test the stuff tonight...
Bye..
Mapsyntx
#1538 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/03/29 10:36:54
There is a prog called "mapsyntx" what can cheque your brushes after compiling...
AguiRe
#1539 posted by Scragbait [209.226.65.58] on 2004/03/30 13:00:32
That goalie you have in front of your inbox is really good. He's blocked all my shots.
E2M1A is still dormant as I slowly push on with E2M1B. So far, it compiles fine.
I Have Also Sent
#1540 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.254] on 2004/03/30 13:13:36
you several emails previously, we seem to have some serious communication problems between us.
Possibly a black-list or some over-ambitious spam filter. I don't understand it, others seem to get through fine.
Try sending to my other box, address same before the '@' and followed by ebox *dott* tninet *dott* se.
Uhm. I Haven't Really Paid Attention But...
#1541 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/03/31 10:53:28
... I've had clip brushes in func_doors and func_plats in my old maps if that had any relevance to what was being discussed.
Cybear:
#1542 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/03/31 14:35:48
yeah, they sometimes work. The problem seems to be a stairway made of clip.
I Haven't Paid Attention Either, But...
#1543 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/03/31 14:41:40
My Coagula map had a ladder that lowered down, which was a door made of regular brushes and clips and acted as a stairway. So it's a ladder and a door and a stairway...
I Don't Think I Ever Used More Than One Clip Brush
#1544 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/03/31 15:21:38
per brushentity, I used did used them under lifts so you wouldn't go in and get your heads squashed when they came back down.
"used Did Used"
#1545 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/03/31 15:21:55
yay!
Problem...
#1546 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/03/31 21:55:52
Entity with no valid brushes or textures
the line is 67386, but when i open the .map up in edit.com, the stupid thing only loads 65000 lines. :\
suggestions on a text program that displays line # and can load massive files (+3mb)
Anyedit
#1547 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.30] on 2004/03/31 23:23:27
the older version that is still available is very good; the newer one has some seriously wacked concepts built in it on matters of interface and usuage.
Yeah, Well
#1548 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/01 01:29:42
considering i just tried with edit and it has a 65000 line limit, i don't think that i'll have any luck with an even older version of edit...
Necros
#1549 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/01 01:42:40
Try with WordPad ...
Yuck, That Sucks
#1550 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.30] on 2004/04/01 01:54:17
I've had it read out some very large compile files befre, and I assumed it had a much higher limit -- sorry for the bad advice. How many brushes do you have inthat map btw?
Necros
#1551 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.61] on 2004/04/01 04:50:21
try TextPad http://www.textpad.com , it's excellent.
Necros
#1552 posted by Kell [81.131.59.215] on 2004/04/01 10:48:46
I've been using Metapad for years; 'tis good. No filesize limit, find/find+replace, line # etc. etc.
http://www.liquidninja.com/metapad
Thanks!
#1553 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/01 12:29:18
they both work great and the map works now. :P
Headthump: it's not so much the brushes as it is the entities... there are a lot of lights in there ;)
Awwww...
#1554 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/01 16:57:54
CALL1 465(precache_model)precache_model(...
items.qc : item_health
(NO FUNCTION)
PF_precache_model: overflow
Host_Error: Program error
on startup of map.
this sounds familiar but i don't remember what it means. can someone tell me?
Some Excerpts From
#1555 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.78] on 2004/04/01 17:16:04
old QMap thread 2001, GlassMan posts:
too many precached models. Only 255 allowed including brush models. Remember each individual func_movewall, func_illusionary etc etc will count towards that maximum. Use mcache to list them. The items marked *1,*2, etc are your brush models.
it will include all the weapon models, health etc etc..use mcache & you will have them listed. 195 is a _lot_ of brush models.
Also Includes trigger_* brushes
The limit is not 256 'bmodels'. Its 256 models of all kinds. That includes sprites, each type of monster, monsters heads, the bsp of the map itself, weapon models, the rocket model, the nail, gibs the lot. I doubt you would have enough space left for all these models if you have 200 'bmodels'.
I would guess you've gone over the top with the triggers for the teleporting in. Theres only so much of that you can do. With your coding skills maybe you could write some kind of monster spawn function to use instead of the triggers. I think custents has something like that.
*sigh*
#1556 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/01 18:45:26
man, i really hate that! :P looks like i'll have to trim some door and triggers out... thanks for pulling that up for me. you rock!
Quake C
#1557 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.50.132] on 2004/04/02 14:54:07
Does anyone know of a Windows based Quake C Editor. I have downloaded various Dos based programs but I really want a nice easy interface - you know the kind of thing, drop the file in the window and hey presto, it all opens up in the editor. Click a button and whizo, it compiles etc,etc.
The nearest I have got is FrikQCC, which seems to have a Windows GUI but no help file to tell me what to do next. (old dog, new tricks)
Frikqcc
#1558 posted by NotoriousRay [138.162.0.37] on 2004/04/02 15:07:02
frikqcc windows gui thing should allow you to associate progs.src files to it so that double clicking on one (in your quakec working source directory for example) should automatically launch frikqcc and compile it (iirc, may have changed).
if you mean an IDE for quake-c editing, i dont know. i know there are some hacks and tricks you can do to get MS visual studio to associate with .qc files and run qcc, however ive never used them. i think they were on friks site or something. i think most people just use some notepad-esque program (editpad, ultraedit, whatever)
Mike,
#1559 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.96] on 2004/04/02 15:43:41
Masm as an editor is very maleable; I haven't used it for QC but you should be able to run .qc files from it by changing the .bat files in the editor settings to ones associated with frikqcc. Might be worth a shot.
Of Course,
#1560 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.96] on 2004/04/02 15:48:36
I mean Qeditor which comes with the package I'm an old fan of Abrash that's why I still have it on my system. In a few weeks I'm going to be switching gears from finishing up mapping for a modders project to programming a progs.dat for a project of my own, so I would definitely be interested in what you might find useful.
Quake -C Editor
#1561 posted by Quaketree [208.59.199.233] on 2004/04/02 23:35:26
From Blues News (Googled)
"QCAPE is an integrated developmental environment (IDE) for managing QuakeC projects with pak editor, project manager, compiler, decompiler, and QuakeC manual all in one."
Don't know if its still on the net though. I still have a copy if you want me to e-mail it to you. Size 2.42mb.
Note: Did not like to run in XP home so if thats what you use then I dunno'.
Fat Controllers...
#1562 posted by Quaketree [208.59.199.233] on 2004/04/02 23:37:51
web site has a link to QCape.
http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/d...
Metlslime
#1563 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.1] on 2004/04/06 09:35:23
Thanks for getting the board online again.
I'm trying to straighten out a few quirks in the Light tool regarding switchable lights. Do you know what's required from the engine to make them work correctly?
Specifically regarding the sharing of the same "style" key both in source and target entities. When there are multiple targets, the current logic is entity order dependant.
I even managed to create severe HOM effects in the engine just by manually inserting a "style" key in a bad place. Same behaviour in FQ and TyrQuake, so I assume this is an old problem.
Aquirre:
#1564 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/06 14:02:30
I know a fair amount about how it works in the engine. The logic you describe is all handled in QuakeC. Without the source in front of me, i believe the reason only the first entity gets the target is that the lightstyle message that is sent to the client will affect all lightmaps of a certain style. So this avoids redundant messages.
I can't imagine offhand why you would get those HOM effects, though. Please email me the bsp that demonstrates the problem, and i'll see if i can track it down specifically.
Quaketree
#1565 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.112.131] on 2004/04/06 14:20:05
Regarding Qcape - I have the same problem with XP, which is a shame because Qcape sounds good. I wonder if anybody has managed to find a workaround?
However, aguirRe pointed me towards TextPad4 and it has quite a lot going for it e.g. syntax highlighting and compiling directly from the editor.
If anyone's interested I can pass on aguirRe's very helpful e-mail.
Ooops!
#1566 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.112.131] on 2004/04/06 14:21:21
Provided aguirRe doesn't mind?
Clip Brush In Bmodel Problem: Update
#1567 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/06 14:28:52
Okay, well i did a lot of testing and code diving, and i found out exactly what the bug is, and what is causing it.
The bug occurs any time a clip brush in a bmodel extends past the bounding box of the visible portion of the model in any of the six axial directions (north, south, east, west, up, down.) If this happens, you can pass through the part(s) of the clip brush(es) that extend. The reason for this is that physics code uses the bounding box of the visible model (hull0) for culling -- if the player is outside of that box, quake doesn't bother doing collision calculations (which would use hull1) for it.
I haven't quite decided the best way to fix this in code. I also am not sure if the fix should be engine-side or compiler-side. However, if you are a mapper and encounter this problem, the solution/workaround you should use is to add extra visible brushes to the bmodel to extend the bbox as far in each axial direction as any of the clip brushes extend.
Metlslime
#1568 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.112] on 2004/04/06 14:56:46
I'll email you a small map+wad so you can see the HOM effect. This problem isn't very likely to happen, but it's quite an interesting effect. If anyone had showed me that symptom before and asked me why it happened, I doubt I would've found the cause.
Mike: Of course I don't mind, just pass it along to who ever that might find it useful.
Mmmm
#1569 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/04/06 16:50:08
My map likes to crash. At first I thought it happened because of edicts, but it crashes even in deathmatch mode (with no monsters). I'm completely disappointed.
But it still runs fine in Tyr-quake (software), but crashes in glquake, winquake and telejano. At least I tested it only in these four engines.
aguirRe, can I bother you once again and e-mail it to you?
btw my comp has been down for two weeks, I wanted to ask it before, but couldn't
PuLSaR
#1570 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.172] on 2004/04/06 17:22:00
Sure, just send me the zipped map+wad (no bsps please, I'll rebuild it myself).
Great
#1571 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/04/06 17:31:53
that's the same map, you already have that wad.
Aguire, Light...
#1572 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/06 18:53:19
i'm not sure if this is usefull or not, but:
in nesp06, i made a little fading light thing... for that i would manually assign one of the 'style' that are highup which is usually reserved for the light util... then, to change the style, all you do is change the intensity via (in qc):
lightstyle(#of style, " *letter of intensity* ");
the way normal light works is the compiler assigns a "style" to the light then the qc code does:
lightstyle(self.style, " *letter of intensity, so m for on and a for off and swaps between the two when triggered* ");
um... i don't know if that's helpful at all, or even what you were looking for... i'm tired. :P
Er, Also...
#1573 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/06 18:54:13
the style is global, no matter what lights are targeted, if the style is being changed, all lights with that style are being changed...
OK, I've Got The Map
#1574 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.9] on 2004/04/06 19:04:07
I'll have to check more tomorrow, but first impression is that I think it's entity related. After a normal build (no vis/light) it crashes FQ 0.75 immediately, TyrQuake can handle it but with entity flicker.
After a fast vis it still crashes FQ after a few rooms as you said.
After adding compiler options -solid -noents, FQ seems to be fine even without any vis. Therefore it appears entity related (noents removes all entities except world and players). I'm not so good at tracking down entity problems though.
Metl: FQ crashes at 0x41aac5 (access violation) every time, can you see in the FQ map file where that is?
Um...
#1575 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/06 19:15:06
what are you trying to accomplish, aguire? i seem to have forgotten...
Shh!
#1576 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.188] on 2004/04/06 23:29:56
necros: he's busy unraveling the secrets of the cosmos. let the man work.
AquirRe
#1577 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/04/07 00:24:51
Therefore it appears entity related
Hmmm that's bad, it seems like it's not simply edicts overload.
Question
#1578 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 02:24:06
Hello,
I would like to place a invicibily artefact above a well (to force the player to catch it and then falling down into the hole...) but, while testing the map, the artefact seems to "slip" down to the weel ground (gravity effect ???)
Is it possible to preserve the artefact position without this fucking "gravity" effect ??
Thanks
Yes JP...
#1579 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/07 02:32:49
...there's probably a tute somewhere, but basically:
1. Fill the well with a func_wall
2. Give the func_wall a name
3. Place a trigger_once at the player_start
4. Have the trigger "kill target" the func_wall by name
5. Place the PP on the func_wall
The effect is that the player arrives in the level, causes the trigger to function thus removing the func_wall but leaving the PP floating.
PS: that must be one very big well if the player can't jump over it?
Distrans
#1580 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 02:49:24
No, the well is not really big, the basic idea is that if player doesn't take the invicibility artefact, he die into lava at the ouput of the well... sorry for him...
Perhaps placing the artefact lower into the well will be more efficient to avoid "little sly" to take the item without falling down into the well... hmmm I think it will be better like this...
Thanks for the advice...
Bye..
Ahem...
#1581 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/07 02:54:27
sorry for him...
hehe, why am I not convinced =)
Distrans
#1582 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 02:58:57
... because you didn't try swimming into lava... it cannot be done without pain... don't you know ??
Of Course JP...
#1583 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/07 03:11:25
...just a language thing.
Distrans
#1584 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 03:21:37
I didn't understood the language subtelty... English is not my native language... sorry...
Jpl
#1585 posted by VoreLord [138.130.226.42] on 2004/04/07 03:37:53
Is this the same map you've been working on for a while now? I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. Good Luck
VoreLord
#1586 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 05:02:58
Yes, that's the same map (my first one...)... I decided to restart from scratch after very interesting discussions and advices with aguirRe. He point up some major problems/errors that causes undetected leaks in the map (like off-frid brushes, unaligned textures, etc.. not reported during compilation...some beginner big scrappy and awfull errors in fact...) These ones were also very difficult to detect if not corrected early... Furthermore, he gave me some good basic advices about how to build a "good" map (with his point of view...), thanks aguirRe ;-)).
As I told him, an external point of view about my work was very usefull, and very encouraging, even he point up my mistakes... What does not kill you, make you stronger... no ???
So I hope now to map in a better way now...
To give you a quick status, I rebuilt 80% of the expected map... I'll post a message when it will be finally released...
Bye
Necros
#1587 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.49] on 2004/04/07 05:28:26
I'm trying to understand how the switchable lights are supposed to work as they're a collaboration of Light and the engine.
I've noticed several inconsistencies in the logic that sometimes generates confusing results and I'd like to fix this.
While checking many existing bsps, it seems like mappers have had problems with this functionality before.
You also noticed that a qbsp -onlyents run has always disabled the switchable lights and that is also something I'd like to fix.
Btw, did my attempt to fix the problem work for you?
I'm Glad...
#1588 posted by Fern [151.203.146.245] on 2004/04/07 06:55:07
that I already gave up on that grey/blue perssp3 map since it involved the exact same scenario JPL is describing. :) Good luck man.
Fern
#1589 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/07 07:29:29
Sorry to copy the idea, but I didn't know it was previously used... grrrrr....
Necros
#1590 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.12] on 2004/04/07 10:46:40
I've now compared the original ne_sp06 bsp with one that I've run through my new light -onlyents feature.
The QC coded new lightfade entities still seem to work as the original but now the source entities actually get their correct style set which they didn't originally.
There are also two switchable lights (targetnames monspawn7 and necros1, GL and silver key) that now works, whereas they don't in the original.
I don't know if you manually disabled them (by invalidating their style) or if they got accidentally disabled by doing a qbsp onlyents run but maybe you can clear that up?
.
#1591 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/07 12:37:23
on the light util, i haven't had the chance to try it yet as i haven't been mapping these past couple of days, when my map has finished vising (8 more hours, whee!) i'll try it out.
The QC coded new lightfade entities still seem to work as the original but now the source entities actually get their correct style set which they didn't originally.
huh? the thing with those entities is that the style key was set manually by me in the editor instead of letting the light util do it.
There are also two switchable lights (targetnames monspawn7 and necros1, GL and silver key) that now works, whereas they don't in the original.
honestly, i have no idea... it's probably a bug... i never made much use of the lightfade ent even though i thought it was really cool at the time... :P the only ones i remember working (and remember putting in) are in the long hall way at the start where the brown shamblers come out, and in the small bloody room where you get ambushed by 3~4 or so fiends.
ok, and here's my guess on how the switchable lights work...
you put the ent in with the flag set with only the targetname and a trigger to activate it...
light comes along, calculates the area of effect of the ent, assigns it a style key and goes away.
in the game, depending on what flags were set, the qc then decides what intensity letter (from a (darkest) to m(brightest) (past m is overbright i think)) to assign to the switchable light.
when the light gets trig'd, qc changes the style of the light to a different letter, the lightstyle command tells the engine to upload new data to that particular style.
yeah. i still don't know if i'm just repeating stuff you know already or not,... i thought it was worth saying.
lates
The Lightfade
#1592 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.179] on 2004/04/07 13:26:22
entities still work because you manually put their style keys into the entity section and they don't conflict with other switchable lights.
Since you assigned them styles 63-64, the risk of interference is minimal. Light will not remove any style keys but may reassign them as required.
You only have 2 "normal" switchable lights, those I mentioned above. The spot over the GL should turn off when grabbing the weapon but it doesn't in the original.
The one triggered by the silver key is more strange. A light is supposed to appear in one corner of the big dragon arena when you grab the key down the river (far away). I can't see how anyone would notice that.
And the lightfade ent I checked was actually the one just before the "brownies" appeared and it works in both versions.
Your description of switchables seems basically correct, metlslime described something similar. I can't comment on the details though.
Thanks for the ne_sp06 tip. This new Light feature is a bit hard to test.
AguirRe
#1593 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/04/07 13:36:40
hm, last times when i have enormously sized leak (forgot to insert a brush) qbsp reports the leak, creates pts but when i start the map everything is gray. but i still heard the sounds etc. only compiling with -hull 1 option helped me to see the map and find the huge sized leak. is that normal? looks like huge leak confuses qbsp :)
Vondur,
#1594 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/07 14:25:48
did that happen in fitzquake? i had a similar problem with a map of mine where all i could see was the void (either HOM or grey if gl_clear 1), but i could still move, shoot and hear things like monsters waking up and doors moving...
Necros
#1595 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/04/07 14:29:19
yeah, it's fitzquake and yes, it was gl_clear 1
Yes, That Happens
#1596 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.135] on 2004/04/07 14:29:52
sometimes and I'm not sure exactly why. I have a theory that it's related to the hull filling (FillOutside).
Did you perhaps use the -noents option when it happened? I had to insert some dubious code to prevent some other bad behaviour when using that option with a leaky map.
You know the No entitities in empty space ... message, I had to shortcircuit that test when using the noents option.
My guess is that if hull 0 leaks and qbsp can't make out what's inside or outside, then the filling will run amok and remove the whole hull. The other hulls can very well be OK so you can walk around but you can't see the actual hull 0 (entities should be fine, though).
If you're using the noents option, try removing it next time it happens. If not, I don't really know ...
Aguire,
#1597 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/07 14:41:19
i don't think it's a compiler problem.
that problem only happens in fitzquake. when i had that problem, i went into tyr-glquake and i could see the map fine.
also, when i sealed it off, the problem went away in fitzquake.
metlslime and i were trying to track down the problem but it never got very far. i found just keeping the map sealed kept me out of trouble. the map didn't even have to be vised. (also, at this point, unvised, the max wpoly is around 13000 and fq still handles that)
Hmm
#1598 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/04/07 14:42:04
i didn't use -noets option.
but i've got one idea, that leak was under the water completely, maybe this is the reason of the weird qbsp behaviour?
JPL
#1599 posted by Fern [151.203.146.245] on 2004/04/07 15:02:20
It wasn't "previously used", that's why it is amusing. ;) I can't think of any maps where you need to swim through lava except e1m8 and rrsp1.
Vondur
#1600 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.227] on 2004/04/07 15:16:01
I don't think that liquid would change anything but you could try adding the option -solid which will remove all liquid brushes and see if anything changes.
What about TyrQuake, same or different behaviour? TyrQuake is so far the most robust engine I've seen so it's very good with leaky, troublesome maps. But FQ is IMO the obvious choice for actual playing.
PuLSaR
#1601 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.185] on 2004/04/07 16:38:14
Update on the crashing map: I loaded the map file into QuArK, fixed a broken brush that probably occured in the conversion process and then rebuilt.
Suddenly, the map doesn't crash anymore in FQ, not even without fastvis! There are packet overflow aplenty and entities disappear now and then but it doesn't crash.
Hmm, this is weird ...
#1602 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.166] on 2004/04/07 17:11:29
interesting, but I've just sent you e-mail with my thoughts.
So is it a brush problem, not entity?
Basically
#1603 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.59] on 2004/04/07 17:34:15
it's likely to be a visibility issue; too much is visible from some angles and that probably includes both architecture and entities. The architecture (or rather, layout) is too interconnected, which looks nice but comes with a price tag.
If you perform a fastvis, it will printout the position in the map where the highest # leafs are visible. This is a place that you should check out with TyrQuake and the r_draworder cvar enabled.
I'll read your email and get back to you.
Vondur:
#1604 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/07 20:30:11
send me the bsp, i'll check it out.
Fern
#1605 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 02:36:17
The idea was to jump to catch the pentagrm, climb into a well, and fall into a lava "bath" to progress into the map... so without invicibility pentagram, you die immediatly..
Anyway, yesterday night I tested the method given by distrans (thanks distrans), and I had some problems to perform what he recommended me... (sorry distrans) but I solved the problem with another turnaround.. Perhaps I used some bad method (I'm a beginner in Quake mapping)...
Perhaps there exists a method to preserve item position with an additional field, in order to avoid "gravity" effects...
Bye
JP...
#1606 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/08 02:59:50
http://www.cdrom.com/pub/idgames2/...
This is the tute I mentioned for floating entities.
Try This URL Instead
#1607 posted by VoreLord [138.130.225.152] on 2004/04/08 03:06:56
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
It's Official...
#1608 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/08 03:09:02
...I lurv the VoreLord.
Distrans & VoreLord
#1609 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 03:12:04
Thanks for the URL.. but what about this file float.zip ??
//Me Blushes
#1610 posted by VoreLord [138.130.225.152] on 2004/04/08 03:13:20
I think all the Quake Lab Links, at least the cdrom ones would be dead.
Just change the URL by adding
fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?
to the front of the file path, eg
http://www.cdrom.com/pub/idgames2/...
would become
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
same thing as what you do with alot of the other broken PQ links
Distans & VoreLord
#1611 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 03:14:24
How stupid I am... I didn't read the text file ... thanks a lot, I will try this this evening....
Float.zip
#1612 posted by VoreLord [138.130.225.152] on 2004/04/08 03:15:21
Well I think it gives you a tutorial type thing on how to acheive floating things,It also contains a .bsp and .map file so you can see it in action
Metlslime
#1613 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/08 03:21:12
well, i've fixed the prob, not sure if u still need the file. gonna release it soon anyway hopefully...
VoreLord, Distrans
#1614 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 03:30:14
Yes, I've unziped the file... and read the text.. I wil test it this evening... thanks a lot...
Here Is Another Location
#1615 posted by VoreLord [138.130.225.152] on 2004/04/08 03:41:44
where you can get that stuff that is at QuakeLab, amongst other things.
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/id...
VoreLord
#1616 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 04:15:03
Thanks !!! Great link !!!!
Jpl
#1617 posted by VoreLord [138.130.237.133] on 2004/04/08 05:57:42
this is a better way to get that stuff, or anything you want from that site. Same site but the URL is a bit different, the previous one is a very old link i've had for years.
This one would be better.
http://ftp.sunet.se/
Just scroll down to the games/idgames stuff, and away you go
VoreLord
#1618 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/08 06:27:21
OK, thank you again... I'll take a look later in the afternoon...
Bye
SZ_getspace: 8030 Is > Full Buffer Size
#1619 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/08 21:41:44
on startup of map.
Back Again With Basic Question
#1620 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/09 02:08:52
Hello,
First thanks to distrans and VoreLord for their help related to my previous problem. The float map was a good example of what I wanted to do...
Anyway, I have another questions. I'm pretty sure it is a mapping basic knowledge, but while I'm a beginner, it's another method I don't know anything...
How to open a door with multiple button ??? I've found in the QuArK tutorial how to do this for one button to one door, but nothing with many buttons. What is the method ??
Thanks
JPLambert
#1621 posted by Fat Controller [203.97.2.242] on 2004/04/09 02:50:21
I assume you want the player to press several buttons before a door will open.
Use a trigger_counter entity, which targets the door, and is targetted by the buttons. I believe it's the count or cnt attribute which determines how many triggerings are needed to fire the counter.
Wot Fatty Said
#1622 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/09 03:26:03
trigger_counter
Acts as an intermediary for an action that takes multiple inputs. If nomessage is not set, it will print "1 more.. " etc when triggered and "sequence complete" when finished. After the counter has been triggered "count" times, it will fire all of it's targets and remove itself.
It's a once-only trigger (i.e. Wait is always -1).
Flags:
"nomessage"
disables count display
Keys:
"count"
number of triggers needed to fire own target, default is 2
"target" and "targetname" like always, required
Fat Controller And Vondur
#1623 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/09 03:39:03
OK, thank you all, if I understand correctly, you mean that each func_button are used once only and they target the item_counter, and when the item_counter reaches its maximum value then the door can open....
OK, ir seems to be very easy to use... Just another question, is it possible to give a button or a trigger a multiple targetname. I mean, during this multiple switch use, I would ike to make appear some monster each time a button is switched. How can I do this ??? Furthermore, I know how to enable a teleport to make some monsters appear from another hall....
Thanks a lot
Monster Spawns
#1624 posted by Fern [151.203.146.245] on 2004/04/09 06:51:23
If you want monsters to spawn in indefinitely every time a button is pressed, you'll have to use the Hipnotic progs.dat or equivalent QC. There is no other way.
If the button will only be pressed a few times I think the only thing you could do is set up a bunch of counters with the same name.
button > teleport_a
button > counter_b (2) > teleport_b
button > counter_c (3) > teleport_c
etc.
Trigger_relay
#1625 posted by glassman [81.128.29.175] on 2004/04/09 07:26:33
If you only want the monster triggered the first time the button is pressed you could use a trigger_relay with a 'targetname' as for your trigger_counter and a 'target' matching your the monster trigger_teleport
Clearly...
#1626 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/09 07:45:36
... I want to perform a multiple button switch before opening an output door (this was explained in post 1621 and 1622 from Fat Controller and Vondur, thanks to them), but additionally I would like to make monsters appears each time a button is switched.... So the player will follow this kind of"scenario": switch a button, fight with incoming monsters, switch the next buton, fight with the new incoming monsters, etc.. and this to the last button ... I don't really understand what is the good nethod to perform both of these feature (multiple switches, and monsters apparition on each switch...) it's still a little confuse for me...
Oh...
#1627 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/09 07:53:18
... I also would like to perform these two features without taking into account the buttons switch order.... rather difficult, or not ???
JPL's Spawns...
#1628 posted by Fern [151.203.146.245] on 2004/04/09 09:35:07
Now I understand you a little better. You should set the buttons up individually to trigger the monster teleport traps. Then create individual trigger_relays, with the same names as the teleport traps, which will target the counter.
For example, if you wanted to have a door opened by three buttons, and wanted each button to spawn a group of monsters, you'd need the following entitites:
buttons:
func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="B")
func_button (target="C")
teleport traps:
trigger_teleport (name="A")
trigger_teleport (name="B")
trigger_teleport (name="C")
relays to make the buttons also target the counter:
trigger_relay (name="A" target="counter")
trigger_relay (name="B" target="counter")
trigger_relay (name="C" target="counter")
the counter itself:
trigger_counter (name="counter" target="door" count="3")
If you use the above method, each switch will have its own indiviual group of enemies, and that particular group will spawn when the button is pressed, regardless of the order in which it is pressed. If that's a problem and you'd rather have each button spawn an INCREASINGLY STRONG group of monsters, regardless of order, you could do it with a bunch of separate counters. Your entity set would look something like this:
buttons (with the same target):
func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="A")
counters (to trigger different traps depending on how many buttons have been pressed):
trigger_counter (name="A" target="trap2" count="2")
trigger_counter (name="A" target="trap3" count="3")
teleport traps:
trigger_teleport (name="A")
trigger_teleport (name="trap2")
trigger_teleport (name="trap3")
the door, with the same targetname as the last trap:
func_door (name="trap3")
Fern
#1629 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/09 09:51:50
Great !! It was exactly what I was looking for !!! I was thinking about the second method, but really didn't know how to implement it... Thank you very much Fern....
Bye..
...
#1630 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/10 22:40:54
so does *anyone* know what SZ_getspace: 8030 Is > Full Buffer Size means on starting a map?
Heh
#1631 posted by xen [82.32.37.135] on 2004/04/10 22:42:49
Post #3 on this thread is kinda funny now.
Necros:
#1632 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.109] on 2004/04/11 09:32:39
By looking in the engine source common.c I can see that the error message occurs just after the ... overflow without allowoverflow set ... error.
It's in a generic memory allocation function so it's difficult to say what's causing it without a stack trace.
An educated guess could be that it's entity related (what isn't?).
...
#1633 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/11 14:17:30
well, this error happens in all the engines that i have tried, Fitzquake, regular GLQuake and tyr-glquake (which has a super high entity limit)
the thing is, i was just below the limit for bmodels when i compiled the map. so then i added in more ammo and health, and that's when the problem came up... the thing is, i thought ammo and health didn't affect bmodel limit because it's only the first one that counts...
Quake 3 Help
#1634 posted by pushplay [24.109.0.211] on 2004/04/12 04:20:49
I don't know much about shaders and I don't really care to learn, I'd just like to get things done. I want to have a beam projecting from a light, but in an orange colour. I can take red_beam.jpg from sfx and modify it, but the sfx shader refers to red_beam.tga which as far as I can tell doesn't exist in pak[0-8]. So does the texture exist for me to screw with or what do I do?
Shader
#1635 posted by Kell [212.159.25.186] on 2004/04/12 08:28:26
the shaders refer to a .tga in all instances, whether the corresponding file is in .tga or .jpg format. The engine will search for the file in .tga format; if it doesn't find it, it will search for it as .jpg instead.
So you're all clear to mess with the red_beam.tga shader, though it's obviously wise to c'n'p your own version of the shader ( and image if you itend to modify it ) before messing. I probably didn't need to mention that bit did I?
:P
Kell
#1636 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/12 09:42:07
It never hurts to mention that bit.
Sprites
#1637 posted by glassman [81.153.251.40] on 2004/04/12 12:14:23
Here's an obscure question - is it possible to alter the image scale on quake sprites? They obviously default to 1:1 in line with normal quake texture scaling but I'd like something different.
Tearing My Hair Out...
#1638 posted by Kinn [217.140.39.99] on 2004/04/12 14:34:24
ok, chaps - i'm about to unleash my long-awaited debut map - Bastion of the Underworld - but as if to spite me, tyrlite has decided it suddenly doesn't like me anymore and refuses to light my map. here's the important bits of the log:
==================================...
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\BENGT_~1\TR...
** Parameters: "c:\editing\quake\maps\bastio...
TreeQBSP v1.95 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Input file: c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.map
Output file: c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
----+----+
Title: "Bastion of the Underworld"
34644 faces
5748 brushes
737 entities
74 unique texnames
606 texinfo
4 texture frames added
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
5290 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
31809 brushfaces
24830 csgfaces
22375 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
28762 split nodes
12889 solid leafs
15165 empty leafs
709 water leafs
53805 leaffaces
48311 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
4565 outleafs
---- MergeAll ----
20143 mergefaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----+
12247 split nodes
6138 solid leafs
5841 empty leafs
269 water leafs
31831 leaffaces
25388 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
6110 vis leafs
19624 vis portals
---- Tjunc ----
26792 world edges
91489 edge points
19883 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
--\
*** WARNING 08: Point (2784 288 -448) off plane by 5.5
*** WARNING 08: Point (2880 352 -448) off plane by 5.76
*** WARNING 08: Point (2880 352 -232) off plane by 5.76
*** WARNING 08: Point (2784 288 -232) off plane by 5.5
----+----+
----+----+
---- WriteBSPFile ----
9286 planes 185720
35774 vertexes 429288
14125 nodes 339000
606 texinfo 24240
27847 faces 556940
29655 clipnodes 237240
7559 leafs 211652
34463 marksurfaces 68926
129983 surfedges 519932
65861 edges 263444
78 textures 971076
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 72388
10 warnings
Elapsed time : 5:02
Peak memory used : 33.4 MB
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\BENGT_~1\RV...
** Parameters: -fast "c:\editing\quake\maps\bastio...
---- Vis 2.24 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp
6110 portalleafs
19624 numportals
State file out of date, will be overwritten
fastvis = true
average leafs visible: 1387
max leafs visible: 4358 near (800 2176 1056)
visdatasize: 1556 kb compressed from 4558 kb
Elapsed time : 2:12
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\tyrlite\BEN...
** Parameters: -lit -nocount "c:\editing\quake\maps\bastio...
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
colored output format: lit
BSP is version 29
737 entities read, 406 are lights.
Lighting Completed.
lightdatasize: 830341
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
************ ERROR ************
File read failure
==================================...
does tyrlite have a problem with large maps? - it's at nearly 6000 brushes at the moment. bear in mind this has only just started happening, and the only notable thing i have done since it worked fine is add a few brushes here and there - nothing unusual. also, the bsp will become corrupt or something if tyrlite tries to light it, but if i do just a bsp+vis, without lite, the map loads fine in quake, (although obviously fullbright). tyrlite copes fine when i compile just sections of the map, which leads me to believe it's an issue with the size of the full map.
any help is massively appreciated.
-kinn
Glassman, Re: Sprites
#1639 posted by kinn [217.140.39.99] on 2004/04/12 14:44:02
it is sadly not possible to alter the sprite image scale in the standard engines, but most custom engines support the ".scale" field on sprites, which does exactly what you require.
Kinn
#1640 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.5] on 2004/04/12 15:07:07
TyrLite 0.94 cannot handle the large fastvis data size (1.5 MB)that my RVis produces. Try updating to the latest 0.95 from http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann , I believe its vis/light capacity is raised.
Also, the fullvis data size will most likely shrink, but I can't see any reason not to update to 0.95 anyway.
Hmm, after checking the 0.95 source I see that its vis capacity is still only 1.5 MB so it probably won't help.
Maybe you'll have to use my Light tool during testing (fastvis) and TyrLite for the final (fullvis). My Light has not practical limit for vis data.
The fullvis will probably take a while ...
A Simpler Solution
#1641 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.5] on 2004/04/12 15:10:13
Just run TyrLite before vis, then it won't see the large fastvis data.
Thanks
#1642 posted by kinn [81.7.62.42] on 2004/04/12 17:00:50
thanks aguirre, that has solved the problem. i am running light before vis now. the reason i am still using tyrlite 0.94 is because i modified the source code slightly to get better results from "delay 2" lights - i simply altered the attenuation formula so that it doesn't blow up to fullbright at the source. (in my version the light intensity at the source is now equal to the "light" value). i cannot open the tyrlite 0.95 source in VC++, so i am stuck with 0.94 at the moment. for those interested, i altered the "delay 2" attenuation formula by changing the following line in the scaledLight function:
(original tyrlite):
light->light / ((tmp * tmp) / 16384);
(kinn version):
light->light / (((tmp + 128) * (tmp + 128)) / 16384);
Another Quick Question
#1643 posted by kinn [81.7.62.42] on 2004/04/12 17:18:34
I've been plagued by a "too many lightstyles on a face" warning, although the area in question contains only 3 switchable lights, and no other lightstyles are present. what exactly is the lightstyles limit? i thought it was 4?
Glassman
#1644 posted by Preach [81.129.94.131] on 2004/04/12 17:36:55
there's another, slightly more hacky way to get a higher resolution on sprites. Make a normal sprite at 1:1 scale that is the size you want the final sprite, in regular quake format. Then make .tga external replacements for each frame of the sprite, at the higher resolution. All implimentations of .tga I've seen scale them down to the size of the original, so if the .tga is higher resolution you get a higher res, more detailed sprite. It does require custom engines again, but I think the support for this extention is slightly wider than that of .scale, although I may be wrong on this.
Kinn
#1645 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.141] on 2004/04/12 18:24:30
The lightstyle limit is 4 but the code in the light utils has always been a bit overcautious since it checks first if the lightstyles are too many, then if this style actually hits the face.
In TyrLite, there are some changes that should reduce this behaviour but it's still not quite right. I've made some additional changes in my Light tool that hopefully should fix the problem.
Also, note that switchable lights also have styles.
It's Late
#1646 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.141] on 2004/04/12 18:31:30
Disregard last sentence. You could try running my Light to see if the same # warnings are printed.
Bastion Of The Underworld
#1647 posted by xen [82.32.37.135] on 2004/04/12 18:35:39
I faintly remember that map from The Pipeline.. looking forward to it :-)
Bastion Of The Underworld: Sneak Preview
#1648 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.94] on 2004/04/12 19:46:22
Xen - hehe, glad someone remembered it. here's a sneaky peek at the Bastion in its current state:
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
Hopefully not too long now :)
Light Utils
#1649 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.94] on 2004/04/12 20:03:50
aguirre, i'd like to use your light proggy - would you consider adding my "-kinn" attenuation formula as an option? i'm a bit reluctant to move on from my "hacked" version of tyr 0.94, simply because no other program does the same type of attenuation.
Err...
#1650 posted by distrans [203.36.15.98] on 2004/04/12 20:11:54
...Q1 enemy, Q2 weapons and Q3 scale?
?
Wow Kinn,
#1651 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.79] on 2004/04/12 20:35:21
I've completed the beta of my first full scale Quake1 map today, and, and, you make me want to go back to the drawingboard (or get out the rest of that bottle of Southern Comfort and simmer in my own chaote) That brushwork is really good.
Wtf?
#1652 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/12 20:45:15
is that an ogre on the ledge there???
*is interested*
#1653 posted by xen [82.32.37.135] on 2004/04/12 21:07:25
Holy mother of godfuck I want that map
Bastion
#1654 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.94] on 2004/04/12 21:14:13
ok, i've reposted in the screenshots thread, along with two more pictures :).
necros: yup, ogres et al are present and accounted for, joining a comprehensive bestiary of new and old monsters.
lol @ headthump - don't be so hard on yourself :)
Kinn
#1655 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.202] on 2004/04/13 06:13:46
I've actually also thought of the intense local light effect of the inverse attenuation modes delay 1/2. In my Light there is already some programmatic flexibility for the attenuation formulae, mostly due to my emulation modes (IKLite etc).
I don't think your variant can be achieved with existing logic, so some modification must be done. I'm just wondering how I can add this without just adding a -kinn option.
E.g. have you also modified the delay 1 (1/x) lights? They will also get very intense close to the light. Maybe it should be added in the form of new delay modes, e.g. delay 5 would be a modified delay 2 variant? I can see that you might object to this solution although it appears rather logical, after all this is a new attenuation formula.
If I add it in the form of an option, what name would you suggest and should it also affect delay 1 lights similarly?
Sprites
#1656 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/13 08:44:16
Thx Preach & kinn
Do you know the naming convention for texture replacements? I've tried the actual texture name & the format used by DarkPlaces for model texture replacements but neither work. I'm using DP (& fitzquake altho I don't expect it to implement this).
More Light Attenuation
#1657 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.242] on 2004/04/13 09:22:29
Another delay 2 attenuation variant is to cap the formula at the light intensity value, i.e. use the standard 1/(x*x) but no more than 1. This will conform more to the existing delay 2 light distribution, but will weaken the halo around the light.
The advantage is that light intensities don't need to be scaled so much just to get rid of the intense halo. The obvious disadvantage is that the lights in kinn's map are already adapted to the higher attenuation.
I just checked how this capped variant looks and it's not bad. Kinn, have you considered this? Does anyone else have an opinion of this issue?
Sprite Texture Naming
#1658 posted by Preach [81.129.84.71] on 2004/04/13 09:54:10
For darkplaces, to replace the frames of s_explod.spr you'd need to call the textures s_explode_0.tga, s_explode_1.tga and so on. The numbers correspond to the frame in the sprite you wish to replace, so if it's a simple, single framed sprite, you'd only need to stick a _0 after the name.
Preach
#1659 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/13 10:12:10
That's the first thing I tried & it didn't work. I put them in the progs directory..perhaps I should try textures.
Glassman
#1660 posted by HeadThump [66.56.187.104] on 2004/04/13 11:15:52
I haven't used the sprite options in Dark Places, but my texture replacement file structure looks like this Quake ---> HeadThump ----> Textures. If you are using Quake 3 BSP format, of course you will need to add the name of the texture file you used in editor below the texture file, like this Quake ---> HeadThump ----> Textures ---> EvilLair8. Hope that helps.
Lights, Sprites
#1661 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.49] on 2004/04/13 12:01:24
thanks, aguirre. firstly, you mentioned a "capped" option - i probably wouldn't use this option much, as it would still leave a halo of constant brightness around the light, which could look unnatural.
the problem with using my atten. method for a new delay value, eg. delay 5, is that I would have to go back and change the delay field for all existing lights in my map - possible but not entirely desirable, unless there's a search/replace function in Hammer, I dunno.
i don't really mind too much how you want to support this - either "delay 5", or "-kinn", it's all good :) of course it would be logical to do a similar thing with the delay 1 lights, as well.
if you do it as an option "-kinn" would be awesome, but of course you're free to choose whatever name you feel is best :)
again, many thanks for this :)
==================================...
glassman - for sprite textures in DP, you must name them like s_explod.spr_0.tga, rather than just s_explod_0.tga, i.e. you need the ".spr" extension before the "_0.tga". keep them in the same directory as the sprites and it should be fine.
Kinn
#1662 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.2] on 2004/04/13 14:16:23
I suggested the cap variant as I noticed that your new attenuation will completely change lighting in a map, which will make it very hard for others to try it out.
It might also be a reason why some found the lighting in your map washed out, this might be a result of the high attenuation scheme. With the capped variant, you still have the normal light distribution of a delay 2 light, but the halo is greatly reduced.
I understand that my delay 5 suggestion is a problem if you can't automate the replace process in or off the map editor. In QuArK (which I'm using), such replacing can be very quick and simple. Please check if there's such a way in Hammer, you might use it for other stuff later.
Another way is to just use a normal text editor and change the map file but I'm unsure if you can import it back into the rmf format. Maybe you or another Hammer user know?
I'm just trying to make new tool features as generic and flexible as possible and also make them fit together. Adding a delay 5 for your attenuation mode seems like the structured way of doing it. But since you're probably the first (and possibly the only) one to make use of it, it feels important that it's reasonably simple for you.
There's also the time frame issue, I'm just about to release a new version of Light and it's a bit late for changes. How far off is your release?
Finally, I'd like the zipped map+wad and your modified TyrLite.exe to test the new light feature, since there are no existing maps prepared for it. Is that possible?
Lighting
#1663 posted by kinn [81.7.55.49] on 2004/04/13 14:46:24
aguirRe, don't worry about the timing - i won't be releasing for at least a few weeks yet. sending you the whole map might be a bit tricky at the moment, as i'm only on dialup - but i'll put together a small test map when i've got a moment. i'll keep you informed :)
as for the "washed out" look - well, i'm convinced that is an outdoor lighting issue - coupled with the contrast adjustments i did to the screenshots. if anything, my method should result in a darker map than normal tyrlite would produce, because my method removes the halo entirely.
i've checked and hammer allows automatic replacing, so feel free to use delay 5 :)
Great
#1664 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.13] on 2004/04/13 15:03:12
I'm also on dialup so keeping the size down is always good. However, it's usually not the map file that's a problem, it's the wad that doesn't compress so well.
Please don't forget the modified TyrLite.exe since I want to compare results with it.
Cliff Design
#1665 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/15 07:13:12
Hello,
Aftre some reply concernig my post about screenshots preview, some of you thought my rock cliff are too clean..... so I'm looking an example of Cliff design (map or tutorial) to improve my map quality: Does someone know where I could find this stuf??
Thanks
JPLambert
#1666 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/15 11:40:42
Try these tutorials:
Tutorial 1: http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
Tutorial 2: http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
Tutorial 3: http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
AguirRe
#1667 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.107.144] on 2004/04/15 14:43:06
The terrain tutorials are relevant..
I have a terrain map, which (bordering on the ridiculous, I know) is 32,000 brushes. It is on a grid 4096 x 4096 and is the 'canyon' part of a Caves and Canyons map. No brush exceeds the boundary. Before I set the BrushMerge operation going, which is likely to take 24+ hours, I want a quick look at it in Quake.
I knew clip-nodes would be a problem so placed two large Clip Brushes over the terrain and left just a small area for the player entity - I planned to 'no-clip' to look around. The map is not sealed.
It compiles OK (-nofill) with a 3.98M .bsp file but Fitzquake crashes i.e. straight to Windows without an error message.
OK. So no one is surprised. But do you know how I might get such a map into FitzQ?
Mike
#1668 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.203] on 2004/04/15 16:26:58
You could try TyrQuake instead, it's more tolerant to troublesome maps.
Another way is to remove the clipbrushes and use qbsp option -fill instead. This will force fill (i.e. basically remove) hulls 1/2 if they leak (which you indicate they do).
The actual size of the bsp can't be a problem; I've loaded bsps up around 15 MB.
Anyway, I'd like to have the zipped map+wad if possible. It sounds like a good test case for the compilers.
Transparent Colour 255
#1669 posted by glassman [217.44.203.124] on 2004/04/15 17:35:00
Am I right in thinking that the transparent colour on sprites - the pink No. 255 - does not act as transparent on models? If so, is there any way of getting transparency on models?
R.P.G
#1670 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/16 02:20:26
Hello R.P.G
Thanks for the link, it gives a good overview how to build very good rock and cliff design.... and also how to use the "clip brushes" feature... I haven't used this before so thanks a lot, I'll made the try ASAP..
Bye...
Q1 Light Tool Update
#1671 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.150] on 2004/04/16 05:09:52
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are soft spotlights and more flexible fast option. Please see readme for details.
Any comments are welcome.
Model Transparency
#1672 posted by Preach [81.129.37.194] on 2004/04/16 06:44:01
Yeah, you're right that you don't get transparency with that pink, with the possible exception of one software quake engine that claimed it had added that. Only way I know that you can get transparency is with an external tga texture with alpha channel.
Mike
#1673 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/16 13:40:54
I've had problems in the past when a brush was at one of the 4096 bounds, but it didn't exceed it. I can't recall if it crashed the QBSP or the engine; I think it might have been QBSP. Anyway, if I just moved the edge of the brush 1 unit inside the 4096 bounding it eliminated the problem.
This may or may not be relevant, but I thought I'd put it out there.
Ouch
#1674 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/16 15:38:37
I want a func_door to fall on the player and not retreat back into the open position after it hits the player's head. Because Quake doors don't have a crusher spawnflag like Quake 2, this isn't possible, is it?
/me doesn't want to use func_trains
R.P.G.
#1675 posted by Mike Woodham [81.129.108.50] on 2004/04/16 16:34:19
Thanks, it did make a difference in as much as I now get an Alloc bloc Full error. Oh well, I think I'll just run the Merge Brush program first and do things normally.
RPG
#1676 posted by HeadThump [66.56.187.104] on 2004/04/16 17:07:07
Would not a "wait -1" accomplish that?
Rpg,
#1677 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/16 17:17:20
headthump's suggestion will work, but it will only go down once. if you want it to keep going up and down, you will need to also set the toggle flag on the door, then put a trigger everywhere around the crusher, with a wait key of it's own that would be the approximate time the crusher takes to go from one state to the other.
#1678 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.188] on 2004/04/16 17:50:08
Mike: The alloc block full error comes from a brush with a face that is far too large for glquake to handle. don't know what the exact unit X unit amount is, but a safe bet is to just chop anything larger than 2048x2048 and go down from there until the error stops. It should be noted that this may also be caused by an invalid brush which Quake thinks has an infinite face, you can test for these by loading the map in dos or winquake and noclipping outside the map, the offending face will be pretty apparent if you take a good once around.
Uhm
#1679 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/04/17 09:03:27
Qbsp chops large faces up so I don't see how that would ever happend and I've think we've had this discussion before (although I don't remember what the conclusion was).
Another Solution
#1680 posted by Fern [151.203.146.245] on 2004/04/17 09:55:32
is to just stretch the texture a whole lot, if it's in an area the player can't see (I've gotten errors like that just from using really big boxes to seal off the level using a non-sky texture)
Vertex Manip In Gtkradiant...
#1681 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/17 17:58:01
jesus crap! wtf is wrong with it?! when working on small brushes, selecting the right vertex is a pain in the ass... for some reason, clicking on one vertex will select another, and clicking far away from the brush will select another vertex... is there any way to change settings so that clicking on a vertex will select that specific vertex and not another one? it's nigh on impossible to create some decent organic shapes as it is.
Yeap, I Get That Problem A Lot
#1682 posted by HeadThump [66.56.187.104] on 2004/04/17 20:04:28
I wish I was home so I could get GTKRadient so I could be completely certain (anyway to get it running without one of the specified games being on your harddrive, btw) but if you look on the second toolbar down there is a set of buttons marked x/x y/y z/z this will change the screen that is the current one to reverse the given view so if you were looking from the front you are now looking from the back.
That should help, but I have a feeling someone may need to clarify, and please feel free to do so.
I Mean
#1683 posted by Headthump [66.56.187.104] on 2004/04/17 20:05:14
so I could get GtkRadient up and running
AllocBlock: Full
#1684 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/04/17 20:31:53
This happens in the lightmap code. Two reasons you'd see this:
1. you too much surface area in your map. Reduce the surface area, or scale up the textures (which reduces lightmap coverage on a surface.)
2. you have messed with the -subdivide option in some qbsp variant, and produced a single surface which is too big for its lightmap to fit anywhere in the memory arrays glquake allocates for lightmaps. You shouldn't be messing with -subdivide stuff anyway, becuase it breaks compatability with old engines (like quake.exe, winquake.exe)
Metslime
#1685 posted by Mike Woodham [81.128.224.178] on 2004/04/18 03:24:14
I don't play with scissors, matches or -subdivide.
Do you mean by "surface area", the amount of the 4096 x 4066 grid that is filled with a brush or brushes? Or is it the total surface area of each and every brush added together, on which light falls?
The point being that my terrain map (following the amendment suggested by R.P.G.) covers the full 4032 x 4032, and contains 32K triangular brushes. Height is only 0 to 1024 at present. And I have not yet added the Caves section of the map, which will add another 32K brushes.
At Brush Merge stage, the brush count will reduce to <8000 brushes but the grid area and the brush surface area will not change.
Perhaps a smaller terrain?
Mike:
#1686 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/04/18 07:23:28
Surface area meaning actual polygons in the game, becuase these are what consume lightmap space. Either reduce the terrain area, or scale up the texture on it (lightmap resolution is tied to texture resolution.)
Clipnodes...
#1687 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/18 20:23:37
i know putting big clip brushes over complex geometry will reduce clipnodes, what about turning said geometry into func_illusionary? there's no clipping there, because you can walk through them... right?
Necros:
#1688 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/04/18 20:49:28
qbsp doesn't know what func_illusionary is, so it won't compile it any differently than any other bmodel. And, i'm pretty sure bmodel clipnodes do contribute to the total clipnode count.
Crap...
#1689 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/18 21:09:15
is there any way to trick qbsp into compiling the visual aspect of the brushes, but ignoring the colision part? so like, a bunch of ghost brushes?
Necros:
#1690 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/18 22:41:42
no, but in theory, qbsp could be modified to have that feature.
Oh..
#1691 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/18 22:42:50
nonono... thanks for the info though.
a clipping we will go, a clipping we will go...
There Are Several
#1692 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.116] on 2004/04/19 05:41:24
ways to modify qbsp hull processing for testing purposes. To get the effect that necros mentions, use the option -fill to make qbsp force fill the clipping hulls even if they leak. If they leak, they will be practically removed and you'll have to noclip to move around in the map.
This is especially useful in large maps that leaks, because otherwise the bsp probably wouldn't load in any engine. Please see readmes and ToolTips for more details on this issue.
AguirRe
#1693 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.241] on 2004/04/19 09:56:10
I often use your bspinfo tool to create .prt files when I have map leakage. I have never known it to fail to create a loadable map, even when the raw bsp (only qbsp used in the process I mean) wont load.
In fact some of the minor leakage issues wont even effect the size of the map to any substantial degree when a full -vis is done using your tools.
A big thanks for your setup while I am at it.
Setting Off A Succession Of Func_trains
#1694 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/19 15:16:49
I have a series of func_trains. As soon as the first one lands, I want the second one to go, and as soon as the second lands, I want the third to go, etc.. The only way I know of to do this is to measure the distance each train will travel, compute the number of seconds it will take, and then use trigger_relays with "delay" "x". That doesn't seem too bad until you realize that I have seventy-two trains.
So, any suggestions as to how I could do this in a simpler manner?
Nope.
#1695 posted by czg [80.202.222.64] on 2004/04/19 15:28:00
Go work you lazy hippie!
HeadThump
#1696 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.228] on 2004/04/19 16:21:20
If you have leaks and still want to force a prt file for vis (not recommended though), you can use option -leak 3, i.e. only generate pts file for leaks in hull 3 which doesn't exist.
If the leak is in hull 0, vis processing time will most likely be significantly extended, since the entire outside of the map is also in the prt file.
I'm glad to hear you like the tools.
Rpg,
#1697 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/19 17:48:25
the only thing i can think of involves custom qc. custents and hipnotic (i think) have new train code, lets you change speeds at different path_corners, fires targets when trains reach certain corners, and lets you set a 'duration' instead of speed, so it will take 'duration' amount of seconds for the train to go from the one corner to the other.
but no can do with normal quake...
and 72 func_trains? just... wow...
Gibbin The Progs.dat
#1698 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/04/19 19:01:08
I finally got my Orb and Stegosaur in Quake1 by managing the progs.dat with frikbot.
I got their health and dmg settings up, and to my surprise I could also change the intermission txt between the sequel.
Yes great!
But...
I suddenly got all levels on gravity 800, and I don't know what I done wrong. I used to seek it in World.qc but left it because it wouldn't archieve result.
What's gone wrong?
Nevermind
#1699 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/04/19 19:26:51
I found it, there are several world.qc
Has anyone ever succeeded in creating a Q1level with the habbits of e1m8?
Looks a good speedmap theme to me.
Test
#1700 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/19 21:23:47
<pre>fdsfsd
sdf df</pre>
Madfox
#1701 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/19 21:25:25
if (self.model == "maps/e1m8.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "100");
else
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "800");
that's the lines involving the gravity stuff, just change it to this:
if (self.model == "maps/e1m8.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "100");
else if (self.model == "maps/##YOURMAP##.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "##SOMENUMBER##");
else
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "800");
and replace ##YOURMAP## and ##SOMENUMBER## accordingly.
ps, no preformatted text? bah. :P
Thanks For The Replies.
#1702 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/19 21:37:50
.
Progs.dat Gibbin With Me
#1703 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/04/20 00:23:06
Will try it as soon as possible,
thanks for the hint!
using several world.qc documents made my Quake engine somehow drunk...
Newbie Mapper With Newbie Question
#1704 posted by Kay [213.234.76.211] on 2004/04/20 07:46:47
Hi!
I just got GTKRadiant 1.4 working the other day, and I'm using texmex for textures. There's one problem I've ran into. When I export textures from .wads the *water/*slime/*lava textures etc are renamed to #water/#slime/#lava because you cant use * in filenames.
Naturally when I compile the map the compiler cant find any #water texture in the wad cause its called *water there. Any suggestions?
And btw, isn't it time soon to make a new mappinghelp thread? I only refresh this thread every time I go to take a shit, cause it takes an age to load. No broadband.
Kay
#1705 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/20 08:18:51
use proper wadconverter that will convert all the wads to tga and back:
http://www.orbiter-productions.com...
and use proper mapconverter which u can get here:
http://rem.fov120.com/rem/projects...
and kay, log in properly, in this case you'll see only new posts. go to account section and register there...
That Gravity..
#1706 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/04/20 09:48:50
Necros, it worked...
many thanx from a spacewalker!
#1707 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2004/04/20 11:31:34
Kay: use gtkradiant spogbranch, it doesnt require you to convert the textures to tga
Lightmap Resolution In Q1
#1708 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/04/20 18:15:33
Would it be possible to modify a light util to create higher res lightmaps for surfaces? I understand the lightmaps are currently generated on a 1:1 ratio to texture resolution, would it be possible to increase that to a user specified ratio such as 3:1 4:1 etc... ??
Daz:
#1709 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/20 22:26:34
To do that, you would at the very least need compiler support (light.exe) and engine support.
To make it a per-surface property (like in medal of honor and other games) you'd need editor and qbsp support, too.
However, a hack that would work in most custom engines is to build the map with HIGH-res textures, with texture scale set to 0.5 or something, and then include LOW-res .tga replacements. This would effectively increase the lightmap resolution.
P.S. Lightmaps are at a 1:16 resolution to textures, not 1:1.
Gah
#1710 posted by DaZ [212.159.60.58] on 2004/04/20 23:11:22
well no wonder no-one has done it already then... :)
Would be great if it did become possible though, re-lighting all my old maps to see the changes would be very cool.
Curious
#1711 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.153] on 2004/04/21 01:46:27
At 1:1 ratio would not every pixel in the textures be sampled in, and would not any ratio level above that be redundant? Just my guess (hey, those old tutorials on flip-code have to sink in somewhere).
Well...
#1712 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/21 03:23:11
when i say 1:16 i mean that one lightmap sample covers a 16x16 texel area.
Invalid Brushes
#1713 posted by Kinn [81.7.53.127] on 2004/04/21 12:22:45
is it possible to create an invalid shape just by using the clipping tool on a block? i've made this simple torch holder shape just by clipping (no vertex manip or rotation or anything). it looks fine in the editor, but is curiously warped ingame.
also, hammer doesn't report it as invalid either, which is odd, considering quake clearly deforms it as if it were.
Kinn
#1714 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/04/21 13:34:08
try moving it out of the wall to 1 unit (it shouldn't touch wall i mean)
Vondur
#1715 posted by Kinn [81.7.57.189] on 2004/04/21 15:23:56
thanks, i just tried that. unfortunately it's still warped.
basically, i just took a block, clipped two corners off in the x/y plane and then clipped it in the y/z plane so it had a sloped top.
actually, it's not really a problem as far as my map is concerned; i'm quite happy to leave it as it is - the only thing that bothers me is that i don't understand why quake sees it as an invalid brush. maybe i should split it into triangles to be safe?
.
#1716 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/21 17:04:44
well, when using the clipper tool, if you make the vertices not be on the grid, this will cause problems for the compiler. a good trick to see if the brush is going to be ok or not is to simply move it back and forth a bit. gtkr seems to check if the brush being moved is good or not and corrects faults if it finds them, so after you clipped and or vertex manip, just give the brush a nudge.
there's also a plugin that comes with gtkr, i think that fixes brushes...
in plugins->bobtoolz->brush cleanup it will fix all brushes, and select them, so you can see what changes were made... be careful, because it really will fix everything, even brushes you thought were fine. ;)
i now do this often, it gets rid of a lot of funny qbsp warnings like duplicate planes and others like that.
Yes, That's It
#1717 posted by Kinn [81.7.62.144] on 2004/04/21 17:17:14
damn, i can't believe that didn't occur to me.
hammer doesn't seem to have the same sort of vertex correction that you mention gtkr having. i copied/pasted a few of my torch holders around and they all had the same bad shape.
anyway, thanks for your help guys. i have now solved the problem :)
Necros
#1718 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.241] on 2004/04/22 08:22:01
I've sent you three emails regarding your ne_lend_q1 map without any reply. If you don't reply I can't proceed troubleshooting it since I need more data/info.
Wierd...
#1719 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/22 12:33:13
i've replied both times now...
isn't your email: bengt -dot- jardrup -at- ebox -dot- tninet -dot- se?
that's what i've been replying too...
i'll try again right now...
Thanks, Got It Now
#1720 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.111] on 2004/04/22 12:52:08
I'll check if the progs.dat helps reproducing the crash and then I'll get back to you.
Necros
#1721 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.38] on 2004/04/22 15:19:02
With this progs.dat I also get the error if I use Fitz/TyrQuake, with my new engine it doesn't happen.
The cause seems to be an excessively large message between client and host at startup and I've already increased that limit in my version because of trouble in other maps.
I can see that something called prespawn is about to execute or to be sent and this overflows the message size (8000).
My guess is that there's too much going on at startup time, e.g. too many spawning entities. Is it possible to delay some of the entities so all don't spawn simultaneously?
I've also tracked backwards to the QC code for the monster_egypt and if I put in a return statement just before the setmodel call, the map loads fine. If I move the return to after the setmodel call, I get the same error message again.
Does this make any sense to you or offer any hint what to do?
Um...
#1722 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/22 15:41:09
i'm not quite sure...
it sounds like all you are doing by placing the return; before the setmodel is stopping the monster_egypt from starting up... so that would certainly cut down on the amount of stuff getting started.
i do know that there is a delay of random amount that gets set for each monster before it gets setup is already present in the code... i'll see if maybe spawning the monsters in manually (ie: going through the startup sequence of model setting and such) will help that.
thanks for the info. i really wish i knew how to do engine coding. :P
It Appears To Me
#1723 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.235] on 2004/04/22 15:51:05
that there's a difference in that I still get the error message even if I return right after the setmodel and before the walkmonster_start call.
The actual call to setmodel is what triggers the error. Could something be wrong with the ne_egypt.mdl or is it just that including it becomes too much for the engine?
Well..
#1724 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/22 15:55:12
i think it's just that there are a lot of monsters, so with the added setmodeling of the other monsters is what pushes the engine over the edge, so to speak...
have you tried doing return; on other monsters?
i don't see what could be wrong with the model though, it was straight from the DoE expansion with only a reskinning, and it worked fine for that pack (and was used again in SoE, i think? or was that OuM?) and plus i've had him working before in test maps, earlier versions of the map, etc...
i think it's just quake choking on so many setmodel calls.
Putting In
#1725 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.30] on 2004/04/22 17:02:42
a return at the same spot for any of the Ogre, DeathKnight or Shambler will also do the trick. It certainly looks like it's the total sum of them all that pushes the message size and thereby engine over the edge.
Yep, I Fixed It.
#1726 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/22 17:04:47
used a modified version of the zer spawn code, so that way it sets model only when needed (ie when spawned) theoretically, this should allow ridiculous amounts of monsters... hmmmmm ;)
Necros & PuLSaR
#1727 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.65] on 2004/04/23 11:45:10
Both your latest maps seem to have excessive # marksurfaces (> 32k), check the compiler log summary for details.
Some engines might behave unpredictably (e.g. crash) while playing as a result. PuLSaR has already noticed this behaviour in a previous version of his map. Unfortunately, even with the bad brush rebuilt, marksurfaces are still too high.
I haven't been able to actually produce a crash in neither of the latest versions of your maps but some engines clearly have this limitation (and don't enforce it).
I've added warnings in my upcoming compiler version for this and other limits.
Who's Mark Surfaces?
#1728 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/23 13:40:52
and what does it mean? you mean, just plain surfaces? like wpoly?
Mark Surfas
#1729 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/23 14:35:58
Mark Surfas was the founder of PlanetQuake, and therefore the owner of GameSpy Industries. He's also $20 million richer than he was ten years ago thanks IGN buying him out.
Metlslime (or Any Knowledgable Soul)
#1730 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.34] on 2004/04/23 14:49:06
On what we previously discussed. If you were to resample the pixel resolution of the Quake textures in use in your map to twice their normal density you wouldn't significantly change the visual quality of the texture (without touch up work, like adding gradients), but it could noticeably increase the qualitiy of the light map resolution? Do I have that right? Would you think it worth the evening of experimenting I plan on doing tonight?
Could Be Definitely Be The Geekiest Post Ever
#1731 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.53] on 2004/04/23 14:57:07
Any one know where I can find an Elvish font type set? (I am so emberassed) I need it for some textures I wittling.
I'm Wittling
#1732 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.53] on 2004/04/23 14:58:29
spelling/gramatical error compounding my red cheeks
Nevermind
#1733 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.53] on 2004/04/23 15:03:23
http://www.1001fonts.com/font_deta...
Headthump:
#1734 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/23 15:21:16
yeah, becuase lightmap resolution is tied to texture resolution.
Necros
#1735 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.121] on 2004/04/23 16:21:04
Look in the compiler log summary for the marksurfaces value.
Unfortunately I don't know what they are or exactly how to reduce the value. I assume they are related to brush faces somehow and by reducing complex geometry, they will also be reduced.
What I do know is that if they exceed 32k, some (or maybe even most) engines might behave unpredictably or crash at some point while playing the map.
It's a bug in the original engine code, the bsp limit is actually 64k.
Marksurfaces
#1736 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/23 17:18:30
These are pointers to actual surfaces. Each leafnode has one marksurface for each actual surface that touches the leaf. Since QBSP merges surfaces, a surface may be shared by more than one leafnode, so there are often more than one marksurface for each actual surface.
P.S.
#1737 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/04/23 17:19:20
An "actual surface" = a wpoly.
><((((º>
#1738 posted by Mr Fribbles [203.113.193.104] on 2004/04/24 02:59:15
Mark Surfas was the founder of PlanetQuake, and therefore the owner of GameSpy Industries. He's also $20 million richer than he was ten years ago thanks IGN buying him out.
Bastard.
Yep, "Bastard" Is His Quake Alias
#1739 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/24 11:49:30
.
Error Help
#1740 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.197] on 2004/04/24 16:30:14
hi everyone. i just tried to load up the latest build of my map in winquake, and it crashed with this error message:
"SZ_GetSpace: 8002 is > full buffer size"
can anyone shed some light?
Too Many Entities
#1741 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/04/24 16:57:39
this is a usual error in big maps, remove some entities (better bmodels).
I think you need to remove only 1 or 2 entities.
Thanks Pulsar.
#1742 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.197] on 2004/04/24 17:27:11
bugger. that makes sense, as i've added a load of bmodels since my last build. (and i had planned to add a load more!).
i really don't know where to start cutting down... :(
I've Seen Those Funny
#1743 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.122] on 2004/04/24 17:52:16
error messages a lot lately ...
That's My
#1744 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2004/04/24 17:58:24
fave error :)
cuz sometimes engines crash without any errors.
Related Question...
#1745 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.197] on 2004/04/24 18:16:43
in quake, you know how the ammo boxes etc. are bsp models? well, does the engine treat these similarly to "proper" brush models like doors etc, i.e. if my error is caused by having too many bmodels, could it also be solved by reducing the no. of ammo box models (replacing them with .mdl versions for example)?
Kinn
#1746 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.75] on 2004/04/24 19:58:28
If you haven't already, take a look at the archived QMap thread at my site, there are a lot of good stuff in there. Just d/l, unzip and open in a browser.
GTKRadiant Again
#1747 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/25 00:01:16
anyone ever notice when your map starts to get big (+4000 or so brushes), there seems to be some sort of lag on the mouse, when right clicking and dragging to move the view? but not really lag... but like, when you right click and start panning the view, sometimes, it "won't let go" and keeps panning for a few seconds... like it received the +rmb, but not the -rmb..? anyway to fix this? is this a problem with the editor or windows?
Necros
#1748 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/04/25 03:49:33
hmm, didn't notice that. maybe u got cubic clipping on? it might slow down things if it's on on a large map...
Very Good Stuff, AguirRe
#1749 posted by Kinn [81.7.58.189] on 2004/04/25 06:04:31
thanks for that - quite a few tips under my belt already, and i'm only halfway through the yr 2000 posts!
AguirRe,
#1750 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.101] on 2004/04/26 17:51:25
I'm currently tweaking a beta level intended for use with a mod though this version is purely vanilla Quake and the game play is complete in and of its self. If you find it mutually beneficial and within your time constraints, I wouldn't mind handing it over for you to examine, and would apreciate any advice you would have to give.
Sure, I'd Be Glad To
#1751 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.169] on 2004/04/26 18:10:48
check it out technically, but I'd rather not play it through for real until you release it.
Just send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. There's always something new to be learned.
Beta Testing?
#1752 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/26 20:07:12
anyone with a fairly powerful computer up for some beta testing?
Necros
#1753 posted by inertia [24.164.66.203] on 2004/04/26 20:25:57
name the game!
Haha
#1754 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/26 20:37:58
q1sp, of course. ;)
Oh Wait...
#1755 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/26 20:39:00
i'm kind of slow, did you mean that you were showing interest in testing or really was just asking which game?
Hey, Necros, Pass It This Way
#1756 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.101] on 2004/04/26 21:48:23
I'd like to check it out
alanr643@msn.com
Aguire,
#1757 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/27 01:53:36
your qbsp defaults to on when it comes to tjunc calculations, right? i'm still getting some sparklies, and was wondering if there was anything else i could do...
Necros
#1758 posted by inertia [24.164.66.203] on 2004/04/27 05:51:16
well "high-end" to me means something that runs XXX brand new game well... which I cant do. But I run q1 quite well so i can test whatever!
Just Check
#1759 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.62] on 2004/04/27 05:52:07
the compiler log, there should be a section for tjunctions if enabled (which it is default).
The red (from gl_clear) sparkles can still appear in large and/or "natural-looking" (i.e. lots of non-axial brushes) maps. Due to the high precision floats that were introduced in Tree 1.70 and Tx 0.79, sparkles are reduced, though.
My guess is that either you have some minor brush misalignments in those areas or the compiler hasn't been able to get all junctions right.
To see the effect more clearly, set a low uniform light by using the command light -fast -nolight -light 50 -sunlight 0 mapname. Then load the map and move around with gl_clear enabled and it's easier to spot the thin brush seams.
Are the sparkles already there in the version I have (from Apr 8th)?
Necros
#1760 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.52] on 2004/04/27 11:29:04
Sorry I said those God Awful things about the colour Orange. Can you forgive me and let me beta your level?
About Fog
#1761 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/28 03:42:10
Hello,
I've seen FitzQuake/GLQuake are able to support fog option: this one can be added via the console typing fog < value 0 to 1> . It adds a fog effect (fog 0 => no fog / fog 1 => you can't see anything but foggy grey screen)...
My question is: is there a method to add this feature in the level editor (using worldspawn entity or other thing) to avoid console typing, or configuration changes into .cfg file ??
I would like to add a smooth foggy effect near the ground of my map..
Is there anybody who have an idea ??
Thanks..
Fog
#1762 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/28 04:29:01
You won't be able to add it just near the ground as what you're talking about is global fog. You would need volumetric fog to just have it in specific areas eg. in Q3 you can make a fog brush to just cover the area you require.
Various Q1 engines support global fog - look in the engine help files to find how to enable it. You should be able to control the depth of the fog as well as its colour.
Some engines also allow you to set triggers to turn it on & off for example when you move between inside & outside areas although this needs to be done with some care so the player doesn't notice.
Glassman
#1763 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/28 04:52:55
OK, it seems to be a little complicated to add fog feature... so I have to forget it.. grrrrr... :(( but I continue thinking it should be great to add foggy environment directly with a level editor: this can clearly increase player insecurity feeling... foggy effect (near the ground or globaly in a full map) is pretty cool to prepare monsters trap, adding secret area without teleport, etc..
Perhaps future Quake engine and level editor will fully support the this stuff.. I hope..
Thanks for your response...
JPL
#1764 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/28 04:58:12
If you'd map for the Nehahra, you'd be able to manipulate with many such features as fog etc from the editor....
Vondur
#1765 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/28 05:18:10
I apology for my ignorance but... what is exactly Nehahra ??
Volumetric Fog In Q1
#1766 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/04/28 06:01:23
It can be done in a sort of hackish way. Just use a progs.dat that lets you send commands directly to the console with a trigger (hipnotic would work) and set up concentric triggers for increasing density of fog.
It would give the illusion of the player walking *into* fog, but you wouldn't see it from afar.
Although from what Vondur said... Nehahra supports real fog? huh.
Vondur
#1767 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/28 06:02:42
I apology for my previous stupid question... I found the stuff on planetquake server after an internet quick search... I've seen your are involved with CZG in this projects... Nice work really reagrading the screenshots...
Bye...
Fern
#1768 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/28 06:11:19
Thanks for the info...
I will try it in the future on a litle test map...
It is difficult for a beginner like me to ensure a correct performing of this feature, so I'm pretty sure that when my first map will be released (hoping it will be done one day...), foggy environment will not be included.... even if I found the correct way to include it.... Anyway, I seriously have to improve my mapping effort to build maps as good as some designer do... and so to be able to create some cool feature like foggy environment in a map...
Thanks again...
Headthump, Inertia,
#1769 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 14:51:46
just wondering if either of you got my messages. my email has been pretty wierd lately.
Necros
#1770 posted by inertia [24.164.66.203] on 2004/04/28 15:49:08
yeah i did, i tried to get the mod running with fuh with -mem 32 and it still said out of memory, i will mess with netquake clients tonight and check it out
Well
#1771 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 19:06:20
i don't know what's wrong with the other engines, espcecially because fuhquake uses the quakeworld code and not regular netquake code.
i do know it works fine in fitzquake, regular glquake, tyr-glquake and software tyr-quake. it doesn't appear to work in regular winquake though, but it does work in tyr-quake which is essentially the same thing.
i've been using 32mb of ram all the time and it works fine.
i'm posting this here incase Headthump is having the same problem, so he can check this post out...
Necros
#1772 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.87] on 2004/04/28 19:49:11
I'm afraid the e-mail didn't come though.
...
#1773 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 20:27:06
is you're email the one listed in your profile here?
Yeap, I Double Checked If It Is Correct
#1774 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.6] on 2004/04/28 20:50:08
That is the one. I'm missing an email today Nengt as well. It may have something to do with file size. I have a 1.5 meg restriction on things sent out on the account but have never had a problem recieving e-mails larger than that.
Well, It Can't Be That
#1775 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 21:35:34
because both times i emailed you, i gave a link to the url.
have you tried emailing me? i haven't gotten anything from you yet if you have...
Necros I Sent An Email
#1776 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.128] on 2004/04/28 22:50:37
Did you get it?
Yep.
#1777 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 22:54:16
i replied directly, so if this doesn't work then... heh :P
I Got Mail!
#1778 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.128] on 2004/04/28 23:31:22
<no topic>
I Had To Go Watch The Daily Show
#1779 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.128] on 2004/04/28 23:33:55
Hence the odd time delay.
.
#1780 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/28 23:40:52
whee!
Qbsp
#1781 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/29 00:18:12
aguire: what is the theoretical maximum amount of brushes your qbsp can handle?
These brushes would be very small (roughly 8x4x16 units, not necessarily rectangle) and mostly detail type stuff, not sheer size of the map type brushes.
what other problems can crop up from having a lot of detail type brushes?
say the actual map size is actually small to medium in size, maybe 1.5 times the size of e1m1, or like my nesp16.
Brush Limits
#1782 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.37] on 2004/04/29 05:14:47
are in TxQBSP 64k and TreeQBSP unlimited. I've recently tested with one of Mike Woodham's maps that had 32k brushes and neither of my compilers had any problems with the brush amount.
However, having extremely many brushes will significantly increase compile time and increase the risk of float errors piling up and finally create leaks, clipping errors and HOMs.
Also, normally it's not the # brushes that kills the large map, it's the resulting # clipnodes, nodes, leafs, marksurfaces or other objects that have limits, either in the tools and/or the engines.
Not to mention vis processing times when vis leafs/portals go through the roof ...
I'd suggest that you start easy and check often that the tools/engines can still handle it.
Re: FuhQuake
#1783 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.37] on 2004/04/29 05:23:19
I made a brief test of your ne_lend_q1 map with the latest FuhQuake and it seems to have problems with it, even with -mem 64.
I checked the source too and it doesn't seem to have done anything at all to the limits I've fixed recently. That may explain why it can't deal with your map.
Even FitzQuake 0.75 has problems with it if you e.g. set -heapsize 29000. After loading, the engine starts to choke, consumes a lot of virtual memory and then finally aborts with an error message.
I hope metlslime can find a cure for it, it's a bit tricky.
Quake Game Skill
#1784 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/29 06:36:43
Hello,
I' about to finish my map, and I started to add some monsters... but in order to play several game skill (easy to nightmare), what are the requirements when adding a monster entity in the map ?? ... I mean, do monster entities need a special field to specify clearly the skill they are involved to ??? Or does the game upgrade monsters aggressivity itself ???
Thanks
JPL
#1785 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/04/29 06:49:29
You can use the spawnflags to control at what skill levels an entity appears. On Nightmare skill they automatically have a more aggressive AI. The other skill levels all use the same... you just get more difficulty by having more monsters appear in those skill levels.
Fern
#1786 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/29 07:18:10
Hello,
OK, thanks, I have to add a value to spawnflags field... but what are theses values ?? I think easy skill have its own value, medium as well, etc.. How these values are used ???
Thanks
Hmm...
#1787 posted by metlslime [66.135.128.76] on 2004/04/29 07:19:15
I think monster agressiveness varies a bit between easy, medium, and hard.
JPL Again :)
#1788 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/04/29 08:56:50
I'm not sure what editor you're using but in Worldcraft, setting flags is a fairly simple affair. Screenshot...
http://www.suspenlute.com/stuff/ob...
Look for something like that.
Fern
#1789 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/29 09:02:05
I'm currently using QuArK 6.4, I'm sure that spawnflag is visible in the entity description, but I can't verify now what are the avalaible fields (I'm currently at my job office, not at home...). I don't know if skills can be set like Worldcraft, or if the required value are directly number (0,1,2 or others... )
Necros
#1790 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.105] on 2004/04/29 09:29:44
Let you know,
I've got it up and running without any problems. It slows down in the first large open area, giving the Tenebrae Crunch, but other than that it plays smoothly on my GeForce2 MX series. Officially this system is 733 mhz (pIII) but it actualy clocks substantially better than that.
I have to run in a little bit but I'll be able to give you a full e-mail update this evening E.S.T. time.
...
#1791 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/29 11:41:32
you're playing in tenebrae? jesus crap i didn't think that was possible!
aguire: i don't know what you mean, when you say FQ has problems with the map if you only allocate 29000kb of ram. if you allocate more, those problems vanish.
it also perplexes me why fuh can't load the map while normal glquake can... the original is better than the port? hahaha :D
---
and yes, i do know about the clipnode limits. :( i've run into problems with that already. although, that's not a problem because all you need to do is throw clip brushes on top of the detail geometry and you're fine.
i don't know about Nodes and leafs though...
and, if you have a big map, with an upper area that mostly is there for the sky (think, beginning of nesp09 at the top), if you clip the whole area, does vis not have to do calculations for that area or no?
Skill Settings
#1792 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/04/29 12:11:34
I think monster agressiveness varies a bit between easy, medium, and hard.
That's a little known fact. The time delay between attacks decreases each time the difficulty setting is raised, until you get to Nightmare where there is no delay at all. Try it. On Nightmare, if you stand under a ledge where an ogre can see you but not hit you with its grenades, it will keep firing indefinitely with no pause between each shot.
AFAIK, the only other difference between skill settings is the speed that Vore balls fly at. They fly faster and faster for each incrementally more difficult skill setting, until they are traveling faster than the player on Nightmare.
So, if you know how to exploit it -- and if the map is built in such a way -- Nightmare can actually be easier than Hard.
Actually
#1793 posted by czg [80.202.222.64] on 2004/04/29 12:31:45
The delay between attacks and the voreball speed only changes on nightmare skill. On all the other skill levels they are the same.
Exception is Chthon that has only 1 health on easy and 3 on other skills, and his fireballs try to lead the player on hard and nightmare.
Also, on nightmare monsters don't go into their pain animations more than once per 5 seconds
Necros
#1794 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.90] on 2004/04/29 12:45:11
I can't see any reason for any program to start consuming all virtual memory just because you manually haven't figured out the magic limit yet ...
As for clip brushes, they can only reduce # clipnodes, they won't affect the visible hull at all (and therefore cannot help vis).
And...
#1795 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/29 12:46:25
there's no way to tell regular vis to 'forget' about processing a certain area? would that be doable without changing the engine?
The Only Way
#1796 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.90] on 2004/04/29 12:59:58
I know is through manually changing detail world brushes into e.g. func_walls. It's without doubt the fastest way to significantly reduce vis leafs/portals, but it has some drawbacks (e.g. no shadow casting). See my ToolTips for more details.
Newer games have e.g. area portals or explicit detail brush attributes that help reducing vis times, but I believe they also need careful planning to be used effectively.
In theory, you could change qbsp's portal handling to automatically cluster small leafs to help vis, but I don't know how to do that. I'm not entirely sure that it wouldn't require specific engine support either.
Awww
#1797 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/29 13:12:53
well, it was worth asking anyway ;)
Necros
#1798 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.230] on 2004/04/29 13:56:53
That problem is easily solved by placing a simpler poly go version of the func_wall object inside the func_wall to cast the shadows in its stead.
A Regular Brush Model I Mean
#1799 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.230] on 2004/04/29 13:59:07
<nt>
True...
#1800 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/29 14:20:35
but then you get like double the r_speeds... O_o that can't be good! :) besides, i don't really like wasting a bmodel slot for just details/reducing vis time when it could be better spent on a cooler door or something like that. ;)
But..
#1801 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/04/29 14:47:57
remember you can group all your func_walls into one within certain limitations.
HeadThump
#1802 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.186] on 2004/04/29 20:29:44
Did you get my 2nd attempt of the buzz73 report or was it also lost in SpamFilter County?
I Just Double Checked The E-mail Account
#1803 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.115] on 2004/04/29 22:16:52
It isnt showing any new messages from you; though it to be honest a lot of people I know have been having trouble this week getting their e-mail. I finally got Necros' and a few others last night.
Also, I don't filter the e-mail for any content except for virus protection though I can see how a filter may interpert buzz73 as a gratuidious drug reference though at the time I was looking for a simple word at the beginning of the alphabet for the file name.
I'll e-mail you and see if that goes through.
Strange Message In Console..
#1804 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 02:13:11
Hello,
Thanks for those who helped me yesterday about monsters' skill settings: I found the stuff in QuArK.... :))
Now, my map is 99% finished, and a strange message appeared yesterday night in the Quake console at the game start during a building test: TOTAL_CHANNELS == MAX__CHANNELS ... What does it mean ??? I use FitzQuake0.75 and it's the first time I have this message (never encountered it before, even with other engine...). Does somebody know what's the problem ???
Thanks
JPL
#1805 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/30 03:10:07
that means you have too much sound sources in the place. try either removing some monsters or ambient_sound entities...
Vondur
#1806 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 03:18:10
hmmm... I didn't set ambiant_sound entities yet... it can only comes from the default ambiant sound, water, lava, monsters, and func_door...
Does it mean the game is able to crash ??? Or is there a method to increase channel number to avoid this problem ??
Well
#1807 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/30 03:52:01
it won't crash afaik, it'll just print that message on console until you exit the area with that many sounds...
Error
#1808 posted by opt1c [24.117.46.115] on 2004/04/30 04:03:10
When i load my map in glquake i get this error, 'AllocBlock :full'
any ideas?
Optic
#1809 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/30 04:04:25
hmmm i forgot how i fixed that, but try -heapsize 32000 first
Vondor
#1810 posted by opt1c [24.117.46.115] on 2004/04/30 04:14:33
-heapsize 32000 didn't work. The map loaded in winquake, but it looks like a brush goes on to infinite.
Vondur
#1811 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 04:19:07
OK, I think it's possibly linked to the last hall, because it appears only once at the beginning of the game (starting from a test_player_start). I will check all entities' sound settings (if a field exists) to make sure nothing is missng...
Just one other questions: what is the effects during the game ?? I mean, I've noticed nothing while playing... so maybe this message is just informative ... and it's not usefull taking into account this message ....
Thanks
Jpl
#1812 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/30 05:16:36
yeah, it's like info warning, the game shouldn't crash
Optic
#1813 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/04/30 05:17:13
hmmmm, well rebuilding problem brush should do then...
Vondur
#1814 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 05:32:07
Thanks, I'll check the stuff this evening, thank you for your help.... I was afraid the problem was destructive...
Thanks again..
HeadThump
#1815 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.202] on 2004/04/30 05:53:42
I've got your email and I've sent mine for the 3rd time, this time without the buzz word in the subject.
Optic
#1816 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.202] on 2004/04/30 06:00:27
Take a look in my Q1 ToolTips document in the Engine Problems section, you'll find it here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k
JPL:
#1817 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/04/30 06:14:30
Just ignore TOTAL_CHANNELS == MAX__CHANNELS. It shows up in lots of big maps with a buttload of flames and torches because of all the fire sounds. (see perssp2, rpgsp1, etc.)
When you reach the static entity limit, that's when you need to start worrying. :)
Fern
#1818 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 07:59:48
Thanks, I know how to look for now... the final hall is quite big and numerous torches are used (at least 24 if I remember well).. if I add lava, monsters and buttons and doors, total sound number must be quite bigger than the game can support...
Just a precision, what is the TOTAL_CHANNELS maximum value allowed ???
TOTAL_CHANNELS
#1819 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/30 08:18:09
I think it's 8.
Glassman
#1820 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 08:45:29
hmmm... does it mean that only 8 different sounds are allowed in one closed hall (for example), or does it mean that only 8 sounds are allowed in a full map ???
As I said previously, I've seen no effects during the game... So what should be the effects on sound "rending" during the game ???
Hmm..
#1821 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/30 09:00:20
It can't be in the entire map so I presume it means within audible range at any one spot. I forget now how "audible range" is defined in quake but I think it is a matter of a certain number of units distance from the source.
Probably during the games some of the sounds don't play but if it's just the 9th flame sound that cuts out your hardly likely to notice.
Glassman
#1822 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 09:22:29
So, if I understand correctly it really doesn't matter: only the 8 nearest sources can be heard, and the others are "switched-off"... Am I right ???
I Think That's Right
#1823 posted by glassman [217.154.195.213] on 2004/04/30 10:17:00
bit I'm not sure exactly how sound channels work or how quake prioritises monster sounds over ambient sounds for example. You might learn more from the QC spec
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
AquiRe It May Be Butting Up Against The
#1824 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.59] on 2004/04/30 10:29:35
1.5 meg size e-mail limit on my account. Previously, this has only effected the size I send out however, and not what I recieve.
Glassman
#1825 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/04/30 10:32:07
After a quick read, it seems to detailed only the basic C functions and not the entire engine architecture in itself... sound function can be found, channel max value is 8 for entities, and channel priority is not described (I didn't find the stuff...)
Anyway, thanks for the informations...
Bye
HeadThump
#1826 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.46] on 2004/04/30 13:04:29
It can't be the size; it's just four kb. I've now sent it a fourth time. Do you have another address I could try?
Heh,
#1827 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/30 13:43:50
it's funny... like three days later, i got the mail undelivrable message for the second email i sent you, HeadThump. your mail is funny. :D
AguirRe
#1828 posted by Mike Woodham [81.155.7.18] on 2004/04/30 13:59:06
Did you get my e-mail regarding the HOM effect? Looking at the posts, lately there seems to a problem with e-mails.
Holy Moly
#1829 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.173] on 2004/04/30 15:11:41
Does this email thingy work at all? Mike, yes I've got it and replied, trying again right now.
It's a conspiracy, I tells ya ...
Total Channels
#1830 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/04/30 15:12:50
I have *never* noticed a sound problem while playing any map that exceeded total channels == maxchannels.
You Think That Is Weird
#1831 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.246] on 2004/04/30 16:52:54
I've discovered a second account I have under Alan643@msn.com instead of AlanR643@msn.com. It had a back log of two years worth of e-mail and a handful of legitimate mail from friends. Absolutely mind blowing. I had no idea it was there until I looked into my Window resources under Outpost and saw I saw the name.
Hey, Give That Address A Try, AquiRe
#1832 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.246] on 2004/04/30 16:54:02
It does work. I e-mailed my main account.
OK
#1833 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.253] on 2004/04/30 17:41:24
Fifth attempt here we go, this time to alan643 instead of alanr643.
I Didnt Recieve It
#1834 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.241] on 2004/04/30 19:09:45
This is really raising my blood pressure exponentialy. I am noticing many of the design flows and eyestabbing aesthetics (grotesque in its cloy toyishness, like the Volkswagon Bug)of my msn client that I have learned to gloss over since I have had this account. I'm going to grab a beer and come back to this later. Anyone have any recommendations for free e-mail account services?
Hotmail?
#1835 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/04/30 19:16:09
it's the most popular thing around...
Sixth Attempt
#1836 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.34] on 2004/04/30 19:35:22
This time directly from my MyRealBox account to alan643.
It's There! I'm Actually Looking At It
#1837 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.241] on 2004/04/30 20:13:47
A miracle!
Thanks AquiRe That Helps Alot
#1838 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.135] on 2004/04/30 20:37:55
There are more off grid vertices in the map then I realized. These are usually caused by the method I use for cutting brushes.
AguirRe
#1839 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.145.98] on 2004/05/01 02:51:25
Got it!
I have played with Bob a bit and cleared the leak-through-solid-brush just by Brush Merging. But the invisible brushes remain (each connected with badly aligned brushwork) and one superb HOM, which because of the ceiling being a mirror image of the floor, really is like looking in a mirror.
I will probably just 'square-up' my problem brushes, or maybe put a door there!
Thanks for your help.
Or...
#1840 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.145.98] on 2004/05/01 04:51:23
... the entrance to a cave where Willy the Spider lives!
Spagetthi Code
#1841 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/01 13:15:51
Wanted to add a new monster to Quake1.
Made a rat.qc - changed some things in the ai.qc - and added a rat.qc to the progs.qc
Now the console tells :
callo 1453
ai.qc : ai_run
rat.qc : rat_run1
monster_start_go : nofunction
stack overflow
I tried to set the rat.qc on my homepage, but it won't come through.
Is it really that hard to put in a new monster
and not substitute one???
Yes.
#1842 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/01 14:04:23
well, no too. if you know what you're doing, it takes about 5 minutes to get a new monster going just by cnping another monster's code.
just make sure you change the name of all the functions to new ones, which i think you did, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to compile it...
i'm not sure, but this looks like something i got earlier... are you trying to have attack functions alongside ai_run functions? i ran into this problem with the gaunt monster i'm working on with kell. it looks like there's too many function calls in the same frame, so you might have to write your own movement code, and put in the shooting code with it like i ended up doing. it leads to lots of writing, sadly. :\
Q
#1843 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/05/01 15:07:16
What compilers are you boys using?
Re: Q
#1844 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/05/01 15:40:42
aguiRe's txqbsp + vis, and Tyrann's Tyrlite.
.
#1845 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/01 16:59:59
all of aguire's utils
C-minor
#1846 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/01 17:09:15
I rewrote the code for the dog and the enforcer. That was relatively easy, as all the code is already there.
Adding a monster is changing the code, so I am hopefully comparing the rat's code from
Malice.
But as they are both different progs.dat, I have something as a rat.qc This has already all the rat's actions in it, but then the ai.qc starts recalling the rat.qc...
Frikqcc gives an outcome, but doesn't spawn the monster_rat. So I'm compiling, but it's kind of a hard carrot for me poor coder.
Blah
#1847 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/05/01 17:26:05
I was asking necros + madfox what qc compiler they were using.
I Beg You C+code?
#1848 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/01 19:42:24
Frikqcc don't sound compiler?
then my spagetti codes macaroni...
.
#1849 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/02 14:44:36
LTH: i use proqcc. i know frikqcc is newer but they are all the same to me. :P it's not like it takes five days to compile code, so speed increases don't mean anything. ;)
HeadThump, Inertia: how's the testing coming along?
Q1/Radiant/*Water Fux0rage,
#1850 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.102] on 2004/05/02 17:11:04
Dunno what could be causing this, but for some reason water textures aren't making it to my .bsp files. The .wads are compiling properly afaik (in other words, all the other textures of the same .wads as the water textures appear in the finished map), but no water textures are present. The only thing that I could come up with is that the .jpg files used in Radiant to represent the textures aren't capable of using an asterisk (*) in the filename, but use a hash (#) instead -- but that wouldn't affect the compile, would it?
Hey Necros,
#1851 posted by HeadThump [65.141.127.20] on 2004/05/02 17:16:55
Though the vising isnt completed, its smooth enough now for a second run. I wasn't sure if I had to cheat the first time because of system crunches (scags being able to catch me on the fallow through spit when they normally would not) or because it is a difficult level. Probably both, but I'll get a more specific update before I crash in bed around 1:00 am EST tonight.
Biff, It Cetainly Would
#1852 posted by HeadThump [65.141.127.20] on 2004/05/02 17:22:18
I keep water, teleport, lava and slime textures in a pak that do not have the '*' in front of the name, and a seperate wad of the original Quake textures with the asterik that I use for compiling manually.
When I'm ready to compile, I open the map with Notepad and replace 'water1' for example with '*water1', save and then compile.
The First Pak Is For Use With GTKRadiant
#1853 posted by HeadThump [65.141.127.20] on 2004/05/02 17:23:40
<nt>
Ahh, Cool.
#1854 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.102] on 2004/05/02 17:33:23
Thanks, Thump =D
Biff
#1855 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/05/02 20:17:24
The version of Mapcon that I use has a -chars switch that automatically converts the # symbol in texture names to *. That's version 1.3.0.
Making Decent Rocks In WC
#1856 posted by opt1c [24.117.46.115] on 2004/05/02 22:11:16
I'm trying to add rocks to an outdoor section of my map, and my attempts so far are really bad looking.
any advice for a rock n00b?
Sound Problem, And More...
#1857 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/03 02:46:32
Hello,
I fixed my TOTAL_CHANNELS = MAX_CHANNELS , but now, near the same location (in the map, during the game) a door sound is not audible... The func_door entity have its sound effect set, but it can't be heard during the game: what's the problem ???
I also have a PACKET OVERFLOW<b/> message apearing during the game... what's this ???
Thanks
Take A Look Here
#1858 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.38] on 2004/05/03 05:59:35
http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLa...
Several of your recent problems seems to be listed there. Packet overflow errors generally means that you have too many things happening at one time. The server part sends too many messages to the client part which overflows.
This can cause missing sounds and entity flicker; the engine is choking.
Running fast/fullvis on the map (so less things are visible for the player) will probably help, but might not cure the problem completely.
AguirRe
#1859 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/03 06:26:09
Thanks a lot for the link... it gives me some cool and usefull informations...
About my problem, it seems that packet_overflow and sound disappearance are linked... Well, I know where to look for now: there is too juch entities in this area... grrr... I will make some tries reducing its number, hoping it solves the problem... So, the big challenge will be now to preserve the map difficulty I'm looking for... hmmm...
Do you think it will be helpfull to finish the map without any monsters (removing all of them if necesssary), and adding it gradually to avoid this kind of problems ??? What would be the good method ??
Bye
More Stuff
#1860 posted by Fern [151.203.154.203] on 2004/05/03 06:34:53
About my problem, it seems that packet_overflow and sound disappearance are linked... They usually happen together, when you're in a really big fight with lots of corpses / gibs / nails / grenades / voreballs / etc. all in one place.
...
#1861 posted by LTH [144.32.128.13] on 2004/05/03 07:16:10
... of course, if you were to use a newer engine...
LTH
#1862 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/03 08:10:20
... I apology for my poor english, but I'm not really sure to understand what you mean....
JPLambert
#1863 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.243] on 2004/05/03 11:27:47
Have you fullvised the map to see if the problems persist? Many maps expose these problems when not vised, so the engine must render too much.
Try also enabling the r_speeds cvar in GLQuake and check out the epolys value, this indicates how many entity polys that are visible. If too many, you might have to consider reducing visibility.
My suspicion is that this is your basic problem. You can also run Win/TyrQuake, enabling r_draworder and see how much of the map that suddenly becomes visible.
Try also a Google search of "packet overflow" quake and see what turns up ...
Engine Refers To A Rebuild
#1864 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.196] on 2004/05/03 11:40:29
the Quake executable. You wont get packet overflows with DarkPlaces because entity management is handled by a higher bit extension then Quake was originally built in. So you could have several thousand models in a single level if you so desired.
AguirRe
#1865 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/03 11:45:55
Hello,
Yes, I made the try running full process (BSP + VIS + LIGHT)... and the problem remains....
So, considering all previous advices, I will try to enable r_speed cvar in FitzQuake in order to check out epolys value, but, what is the maximum value value I must reach.. some says 800, others 2000 (If I remember correctly, Vondur said that in a previous post...)... but what's the good one according to your experience???
And, if I need to reduce visibility, how can I do ??
Thanks a lot..
Bye
There Used To Be
#1866 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.97] on 2004/05/03 13:30:54
certain recommended values to aim for (especially in DM maps), but I doubt they're still valid today.
What I meant was to use these numbers and methods to quantify your current situation, which seem to choke the engine. When you see the numbers go down, you know you're making progress.
Reducing visibility can be done by using vis blockers, i.e. donut designs, walls etc. Think of a large open arena with many small objects (faces or entities) as the worst possible scenario for vis or the engine.
Look at many older Q1 maps and you'll see that most of them have a layout and entity amount/placement that prevents the arena situation.
I believe one of the challenges in Q1 mapping is to make interesting and fun maps while still keeping them playable in most engines.
AguirRe
#1867 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/04 02:18:54
Hello,
I did it last night, I mean trying r_speeds value... after a full process (bsp + fullvis + light) there seems to be some very big value... As you felt, in the main big area, the r_speeds number increases up to 10000 (more or less..) I achieved to reduce it down to 1500 by an additional wall that cut the visibility....
But still remaining the problem of packet_overflow and sound disapperance... so I tried removing all monsters... packet overflow error disappear, but sound is still "inaudible"... and other problem, a big HOM problem appears at the beginning of the map while it doesn't exists before .... (and no errors/warnings occured during compilation...)
It's very discouraging to see these problems incoming while the map is almost achieved...
Anyway, I will try removing back all groups, one by one, to find where is located the problem... with a bit of luck, it can work...
Bye
JPLambert
#1868 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.71] on 2004/05/04 04:59:20
Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
OK
#1869 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/05/04 05:03:23
I will do it this evening... I'm at my job office now, and till to 17:00 ...
Thanks again for your help...
AguirRe
#1870 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.26] on 2004/05/04 15:17:07
This is probably one for you:-
I have a sealed i.e. no leaks, map of 2600 brushes. I do get several Cut_Node_Portal erros but the map runs fine in its own right.
I have a second sealed map of 600 brushes, which again runs fine in its own right.
So I import smaller map into larger map and get a leak through a solid brush when building Hull 1.
I have changed the brush concerned, overlapped surrounding brushes etc. The brush is one of many (terrain type triangles) on the 'floor' of the level but I have also added a large 'sealing' brush beneath the terrain to try to avoid the misaligned brush problems (this is not one of my large terrains!), which has been in place long before the import.
The only slightly unusual thing is that at present the imported map is entirely unconnected in any way to the larger map: I have imported it just to see how I can fit it in. I have not exceeded the world boundary - close to the edge but 32 units to spare.
If I delete the imported map (select Group and CTR X) without saving or reloading, I can immediately compile without leaks.
Bit long winded... any pointers? Anyone?
And I still have one more section to import!
Not Exactly Any Help
#1871 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.165] on 2004/05/04 15:41:38
but maybe some kind of attempt to explain why it's happening. The compiler quickly translates all brush faces in the map file into infinite planes with a normal (perpendicular to the plane) that specifies direction and a distance from origin (0 0 0).
This pair identifies the plane and they're represented by float values (in my compilers 64 bit double precision). One can rather easily suspect that the more of these infinite planes there are in a map, the more risk of planes getting too close (i.e. coplanar) for comfort due to numerical inaccuracies.
I believe that this might be one reason why bigger maps sooner or later start to exhibit weird leaks or clipping errors. I know maps where it appears nigh impossible to get rid of these problems.
In your case, you have two maps that you merge together and both are terrain generated, which means many triangular faces and as I've mentioned before, this appears to be extra provoking for the compiler.
This is all only a theory, though; I can't substantiate it. Still I recommend to inspect the areas of the warnings and try to get rid of them, in my experience the warnings seem valid and should be corrected.
If you can't proceed, send me the map and I'll see what I can do.
AguirRe
#1872 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.26] on 2004/05/04 16:10:45
Thanks.
The build process for the enlarged map was:-
1. small terrain (honestly!)
2. then one self contained non-terrain map
3. then the linking brushes created on-the-fly in the new map
4. then the attempt to bring in the later map
Each map compiled ok on its own.
I think perhaps I will just release the terrain + one section as a stand alone 'quickie'. At least I can cram it with monsters and end up with a Serious Sam style arena fight at the end.
It seems that I am fighting a losing battle here with the limits of the tools ... I know "a bad workman blames his tools".
Trouble is, time is tight and I go in three weeks.
You're welcome to have first look as you have helped a lot over the last few weeks.
Thanks again.
One Thing I Would Try..
#1873 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/04 17:02:54
is moving the imported section nearer in than 32 units from the edge. I seem to recall having problems myself with brushes that close.
Tried...
#1874 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.206.176] on 2004/05/06 14:51:44
... but no good. I am working with very little room left in the 4096 world-space as this has become a very 'flat' map. Ho hum, start map and three small additional maps then.
Two general questions:
How many units from the player can a generated sound be heard? I do not want the player to hear monsters being teleported in so am wondering how far away from the spawn site I need to set the trigger.
Can I switch off the monster-spawn sound from within the monster's .qc file? I cannot find a reference to the spawn .wav (r_tele5.wav?) in the .qc but has anyone tried this? Maybe it's hard coded in the engine?
Tele Sounds
#1875 posted by czg [80.202.219.83] on 2004/05/06 15:11:56
The function that plays ALL the teleport sounds is play_teleport() on line 282 in triggers.qc, so if you wanted to make ALL teleports (monsters, player) silent, you could just remove the contents of that function. (Or at the very least, comment away line 299, you might want to keep line 300 though...)
Czg
#1876 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.206.176] on 2004/05/06 15:57:05
Tusen takk!
(sum total of my trip to Hemsedal last Christmas)
Heh
#1877 posted by czg [80.202.219.83] on 2004/05/06 16:33:32
heh
Wait A Second...
#1878 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/05/06 17:56:19
Isn't there a "silent" spawnflag on the teleporter?
.
#1879 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/06 18:34:52
yes, but that only gets rid of the 'humming' ambient sound that trigger_teleports emit.
Teleport Sounds
#1880 posted by Fern [66.31.200.93] on 2004/05/06 19:25:14
Zerstörer has a spawnflag for truly silent teleports.
GetFileSpace
#1881 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/06 20:50:41
My last map suddenly run out of light.
What can I do?
light.exe
142entity - 130lights
+++ERROR+++
GetFileSpace : overrun
What Light Are You Using?
#1882 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/06 22:24:06
if you're not, i highly suggest using aguire's light util, because it seems you have hit a limit which aguire's stuff probably removed.
Aguire's Light Tool
#1883 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/06 23:33:19
I deleted 16 torches, and the problem was solved. Could be something in the animated light count.
Never had the message before.
If It's My Light
#1884 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.14] on 2004/05/07 03:02:01
tool, it must be a very old version < 1.14 (Aug 2002). Later versions have another more informative error message.
Q1 Tools Update
#1885 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.225] on 2004/05/07 06:23:55
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are new attenuation formula (delay 5) and improved additive minlight in Light, engine matched validation in compilers and a new GLQuake engine especially made for mappers. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Gtkrad 1.5
#1886 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/07 13:00:46
I'd like to start using GTKRadiant 1.5 but turning off 'Freelook in camera view' doesn't seem to work in the Preferences. Is it just me having that problem?
AguirRe
#1887 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/07 13:02:03
What are the mapper specific features in your version of glquake?
Aguire:
#1888 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/07 13:52:56
thanks man, this is awesome stuff.
first of all, the engine is a great idea. there are times when every engine i try to use packs up and leaves. i doubt i'll use it for much playing, because it doesn't look like you've made it any more efficient than the regular quake, and i doubt i'll make a map specifically for it either because of that, but this should help immensly with testing and such. at least now, when i hit a limit, i can keep building and testing while i try to figure out what's wrong as opposed to just stopping and searching and waiting and such. :)
also, i'm a big fan of delay 5. i didn't use many delay 2 lights in my maps after i started using fitzquake, because the overbright feature would make the lights way too bright, and i realised that this must be what it looks like in software... being able to specifiy a max light limit is great, and Kinn rocks hard for coming up with something like that. (but thanks for implementing it in your tools, aguire)
i haven't really experimented much with the new minlight setting though... i try to stay away from minlight as much as possible. :P
cheers on excellent work!
Glassman:
#1889 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/07 13:54:26
like he said in the readme, there aren't really any features for mapper, the only feature is that almost all limits that would normally crash quake before even letting you see the map are bumped way up (ie: edicts from 600 to 2048)
it's not really meant for normal play or for mapping specifically for.
Fuck, Triple Post...
#1890 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/07 14:48:52
one thing i forgot to mention, Aguire:
don't name your engine glquake.exe, because it's not meant to be a glquake replacement. glquakebjp is perfectly acceptable ;) besides, it makes unzipping it a pain, because now i have to unzip to another directory, rename then copy it into the quake directory. same me some steps, eh? ^_^
Glassman
#1891 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.132] on 2004/05/07 15:17:02
I have experienced the same problems. I've also reverted back to using the beta 1.3.11 because I find the changes in the interfaces of the newer versions iratating and counterproductive to what I try to accomplish.
GlassMan
#1892 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.37] on 2004/05/07 16:03:56
The "GLQuake Mapper version" just means that its focus is on loadability and viewing of large troublesome maps.
Since mappers at one time or another create maps that indirectly (e.g. via leaks) or directly exceed normal engine limits, I hope this version is of special use for them.
It's not meant as a replacement for FitzQuake or other engines, just a complement.
Necros
#1893 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.37] on 2004/05/07 16:14:55
I toyed with the idea of making up yet another engine name but decided against it, since all my other tools also kept their original names.
Since I don't plan to make that many more improvements to this engine (unless someone finds a reasonably valid bsp it can't load), I hope it won't be too cumbersome with the file renaming.
I'm glad you like the tools, let me know if you have problems with them.
Thanks AguirRe..
#1894 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/07 18:44:01
Sorry I didn't spot the readme..it isn't in the zip. That sounds very useful.
Headthump..I fine with 1.4 but I definitely need to turn freelook on. I've reported it as a bug.
Your Huge Map
#1895 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.98] on 2004/05/07 19:39:53
Day of the Lords was one that I tested the engine capacity on. Sometimes when compiling that map you get a leak near the beginning of the map.
The resulting bsp is normally not loadable in any engine, but now it is. Just fly around and inspect the whole outside of the map when it's not removed by the compiler. Then load the pts file and you can find the leak spot immediately.
Even the old SoE map soe2m4 which was mega huge before Tronyn decided to split it can now be loaded and inspected for the leak trail.
Maybe the engine can also handle the upcoming project that Tronyn is working on.
I've Noticed
#1896 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.245] on 2004/05/07 20:38:10
with 1.4 the default settings uses the QeRadiant standard 'delete - insert' for the zoom-in, zoom-out instead of the 'shift mouse drag' that is second nature for me now. Changes like that are a bit irksome though I do have 1.4 set up for Half-Life mapping.
AguirRe
#1897 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/08 04:02:37
Yes I had that problem intermittently - strangely I got it to compile (without a leak) by slightly moving one of the entities in the beginning outside area. Not sure why that would work other than perhaps reshuffling the entity order in the map file. Where is the leak?
HeadThump-shift RMB drag does work in 1.4 in the 2d windows.
It's The Same As
#1898 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.228] on 2004/05/08 05:00:26
we discussed before; the leak is in the rocks to the left of the entrance cave in the open area.
When inspecting the leak, it seems to be one of those that there really isn't any explanation of; all brush junctions seem OK (although a bit complex) in the area. By manipulating one of the brushes, the leak goes away.
My only guess is that it's the size of the map that finally puts the numerical errors in the float calculations over the edge.
Necros
#1899 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.187] on 2004/05/08 05:43:47
Hi dude, I'm glad you like delay 5 (and massive thanks to AguiRe for implementing it in his light program). What I find looks awesome is to use it in conjunction with "wait 2", e.g. for a nice, dramatic walltorch, try:
light 600
delay 5
wait 2
Func_synch_trains
#1900 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/08 20:39:26
I wated to synchroon func_trains, as I am using 5 related through eachother.
Found it somewhere at 3D-Inside, but lost it.
Can't find it...again.
Gtkrad Keys
#1901 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/11 15:03:42
Anyone know if it's possible to change the keyboard assignments for gtkrad 1.4 upwards? Specifically I'd like to change the freelook camera move arrow keys to a wasd set up.
Jawohl
#1902 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/05/11 15:06:00
you can create your shortcuts.ini file with your key bindings. this file should be placed in your q3/rad1.4 dir.
Danke
#1903 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/11 17:35:54
but..the freelook controls seem to be really buggy once I've changed them. They work fine using the default arrow keys but with a new set up (actually esdf) sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes the key off doesn't work so the camera carries on moving. I've changed the other shortcuts that clash. Any ideas?
Hmm
#1904 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/05/11 17:37:38
not really, cuz i avoid using freelook. sorry.
i use arrows and ctrl/shift modifiers to move in 3d view.
Ja
#1905 posted by glassman [81.154.197.12] on 2004/05/11 17:48:49
I agree! (although I use RMB + ctrl)..but non-freelook in v1.5 (Spog's q1 branch) doesn't support it. If you feel like it you could encourage Spog to add support by commenting in this bug report:
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/bug...
See also:
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/bug...
Freelook
#1906 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/11 19:02:16
make sure caps lock is not on, because that will affect letter keys.
also, the key releases for the arrow keys are bugged as well. if you press up and then 't' or something that brings up a window, the view will continue to move forward, even if you let go of the forward key. you need to close the windows and press the same key to stop it.
Where Can I Get Q1 Textures?
#1907 posted by ToadWarrior [81.100.90.131] on 2004/05/12 15:41:43
Where's the best site for Quake 1 texture sets? I've tried searching google but it's all QUake 3 stuff coming up with the occasional Q2 bits.
Look For Links
#1908 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.228] on 2004/05/12 17:30:42
in the Definite WAD Collection thread: http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Texture Dimensions.
#1909 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.150] on 2004/05/14 08:31:06
A quick texture question. I have a texture that's 128 x 8 pixels, and it crashes Winquake. Keeping the width at 128, what's the smallest height for it to be valid?
16
#1910 posted by czg [80.202.222.91] on 2004/05/14 08:50:20
Textures can't be smaller than 16 pixels in any direction.
Mmf
#1911 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/05/14 10:18:30
I'm making a Q1 terrain map. All goes well until I'm adding the last sections of detail and refining gameplay when:
TreeQBSP v1.96 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Input file: C:\quake\id1\maps\kellmet4.map
Output file: C:\quake\id1\maps\kellmet4.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
Title: "Blah"
18989 faces
3486 brushes
270 entities
39 unique texnames
271 texinfo
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
*** ERROR 32: Face coordinate out of range (100000.000000)
1 warning
Elapsed time : 0:02
Peak memory used : 3.5 MB
The terrain mesh is 32x32, though I have a smaller section to generate separately and bolt on to one of the corners.
The terrain squares are 128x128 units. I was using 256x256 but it looks cack and makes traversing the terrain awkward.
There are three large bits of architecture on the terrain and several smaller ones. All of the large bits contain pseudo-curves ( domes and pipes ) only some of which I was able to make into func_illusionarys.
Compiling worked fine up until I added just a few more brushes for a small chunk of techy architecture and *wham*...above error.
I suspect I simply have too many surfaces in the map now and will have to prudently chunk some of my detail.
Is this the case?
Func_illusionary Vs Func_wall
#1912 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/05/14 10:50:55
You do know that you can use func_wall instead of func_illusionary if you want to have collision detection for it but not block vis, right? I dunno why you were only able to make some stuff into func_illusionary, but if it's due to lack of collision detection then that might help.
Err but I think you knew that.
Kell
#1913 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.138] on 2004/05/14 11:10:11
I don't think I've experienced that error before, but I've seen it mentioned at QuakeLab http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLa... . The original error message was CheckFace: BUGUS_RANGE ....
It appears to be a face that the compiler thinks is too big. I can't find any limit that indicates that there are too many of anything.
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Aha
#1914 posted by Kell [212.159.25.186] on 2004/05/14 11:27:03
RPG: yeah, I know the difference. I just prefered illusionaries in this case because of the collision thing as well. I can then build simpler, rectangular solids inside them ( out of clip or black ) to approximate collision.
By 'only some ' I meant, there is some pseudo-curved stuff that needs to be solid to cast shadows, or interiors will look floodlit :/
aguirRe: thanks, I may send it to you. I hope it is something to do with size of a face rather than total number; the map's almost finished and culling superfluous detail always makes me anxious.
I'll have a look around the map when I get home and send it to you tomorrow.
Thanks for the info guys.
Thanks Czg
#1915 posted by Kinn [217.140.39.225] on 2004/05/14 12:14:01
that's done the trick :)
Kell, Do You Use Gtkradiant?
#1916 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/14 13:04:14
you can run the map through the brush checker and it usually gets rid of busted brushes.
Be Sure To Back It Up
#1917 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.242] on 2004/05/14 14:35:33
Last map I brush checked like that started leaking like a sieve.
...
#1918 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/14 15:06:36
mmmm, yes. that tends to happen... but i don't think the map would have started leaking after the check because it basically does what qbsp does. when qbsp gets wierd brushes with duplicate planes and such, it tends to mutate them much in the same way the check does, so it's likely that qbsp would "make" the map leak as well. course, there could be some exceptions... (aguire, any input?)
the nice thing is that after the check is done, it selects all the modified brushes, so you can check to make sure the modifications didn't leak the map or somesuch.
Entirely My Fault
#1919 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.207] on 2004/05/14 17:08:43
for including my 'itty, bitty' brushes in the hull. Oh well. Live. Learn. Get Luvs for those messy spills.
Only
#1920 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.57] on 2004/05/14 17:19:27
when qbsp finds duplicate planes, planes with no normal etc, it just drops the plane, it doesn't change it.
What might happen though is that when this particular plane is dropped, the brush isn't closed anymore (i.e. doesn't form a closed volume) and this isn't good.
In the latest version of my compilers, I've added a check for simple axial brushes (i.e. cubes) being closed. I haven't figured out how to check non-axial brushes.
PuLSaR actually had this issue in his upcoming map and when fixing it, the # clipnodes went down pretty much and in a big map this might be crucial.
I've also added some info regarding this in my latest ToolTips.
Re: Face Coordinate Out Of Range
#1921 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/05/15 07:42:58
Well, I had a very recent back up copy of the map and compiled that successfully - error gone.
The last brushwork that I was adding before the error, involved some cloning of existing brushes ( to get the same variations of texturing on the faces and lock the brushes at the same height; they were wide steps ) and I started to use Radiant's edge manipulation. As is sometimes the case, the brush disappeared instantly, indicating an invalid of some sort.
I ran bobtoolz brush cleanup and it removed the offending step straight away.
Thing is, when I continued to work on the same feature in the same area, I created and deleted some brushes myself, then CTRL+Z'd. When the brushes returned, some of their faces were white, like a point entity. No texture. I couldn't change the texture afterwards either.
So a combination of Radiant and my sickly HDD probably cause some mutant brush error that I couldn't see properly in Radiant to fix. Even brush cleanup didn't recognise it.
So anyway, not entirely sure what the problem was, but it's gone.
The map's coming along nicely btw, due in no small measure to aguire's bsp coping easily with my huge terrain mesh. Thanks for that :)
Well
#1922 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.134] on 2004/05/15 12:34:53
I've added coordinates to that error message, should it appear again.
Brushes Disappearing In Radiant
#1923 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/05/15 12:45:51
I remember having trouble with brushes that were edited in Radiant and then disappeared. That was back in the olden days, and David Hyde used one of my maps as a reference for getting MapSpy to detect those brushes. Even though it's targeted at Q2, Mapspy can be very useful in tracking down rogue brushes of that sort. It outputs the brush number, which makes it pretty easy to track it down even if the editor isn't displaying that brush.
Hello
#1924 posted by Razumen [24.78.187.174] on 2004/05/16 02:40:49
Hey guys, I'm new here - glad to see there's still people who mod for Q1 ;). Anyhow here's my question; do Hexen 2 maps require special compilers designed specifically for them or can I use ones for Quake1 as well? I tried to use aguirRe's bsp and light compilers but light gives me this error for one map (I used it for another map and it seemd to light fine):
************ ERROR ************
LoadBSPFile: odd Model lump size
while bsp gives me this error for any map I try to compile:
************ ERROR ************
Invalid brush plane format on line 14
This is line 14 in the .map file:
( 3630 525 -105 ) ( 3630 524 -105 ) ( 3960 524 -105 ) rtex066 0 0 0.0 1.000 1.000 -1
Meh, I wouldn't be trying this if the people in the H2 mod scene didn't amount to my hand's digits :(.
Razumen
#1925 posted by Vondur [217.70.16.165] on 2004/05/16 03:19:53
i'm afraid you have to use h2 compilers only...
Thought So
#1926 posted by Razumen [24.78.187.174] on 2004/05/16 03:30:02
Thanks, Well I'll just be off to bug the dude making NewHexen, he's done some pretty good stuff with both the compilers and engine so far.
I may be back! ;-)
Hexen2
#1927 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.222] on 2004/05/16 05:17:22
has more hulls than Q1 (5 or 6 I think), so my utils won't do I'm afraid. It appears to use the same bsp version number (29), though. I've never tested anything with H2 maps (I don't have the game either).
Hexen 2
#1928 posted by Mr Fribbles [203.113.199.104] on 2004/05/16 05:37:33
I looked into Hexen 2 stuff a while back... yes, you do have to use the Hexen 2 specific compilers, and unfortunately (when I looked, at least) they're pretty basic and didn't include all the fancy things we've come to expect in the updated Quake tools.
However, I last checked something like 2 years ago, so perhaps someone has released some modified tools since then.
Hmm
#1929 posted by Razumen [24.78.187.174] on 2004/05/16 12:32:58
Well they are still rather basic, although we do have colered lighting and a few other options like minlight, fade and range that's really all.
Maybe I can get Korax to look and see if he can add more options to them. Which compilers that are out are the best right now? I can only think of Tryan's and aguiRe's tools.
Anyone
#1930 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/16 15:05:06
want to beta test a q1sp? an engine that supports external texture replacement is recommended (fitzquake, tomazquake, ...?) not necessary though.
Gamma Problem
#1931 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.222] on 2004/05/18 12:57:45
Several people seem to have problems setting the gamma (brightness) in my new GLQuake engine. Just add the -gamma x command line option, where x can be e.g. 1.1 or any float value that gives a good result.
GLQuake only sets the gamma at startup, so it doesn't help changing it in-game.
This information has also been added to the readme.
That Engine Is So Useful!
#1932 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/18 13:52:27
helped me load a map that was over the limit on marksurface, clipnode and lightmaps. :D
I'm Glad To Hear That
#1933 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.168] on 2004/05/18 16:39:26
necros, thanks!
Necros, The Same Level?
#1934 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.124] on 2004/05/18 17:15:27
Did you get my e-mails from last week. One of which was quite legnthy though I don't know how useful it may have been.
Christ...
#1935 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/18 17:27:12
i hope you backed it up...
the last email i have from you is dated apr30. :\
did you get the reply i sent on the 30th?
I Found The One Dated May 3
#1936 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.169] on 2004/05/18 20:33:50
I've just re-sent it.
I believe it to be the lengthy version. Last dated e-mail I have from you is dated April 28.
I Also Sent A Note
#1937 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.169] on 2004/05/18 20:40:21
about having difficulties with the demo file play back, and it may need to be broken down with Keygrip due to the legnth -- or just redone from the start at a quicker pace perhaps.
Ah,
#1938 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/18 21:14:21
thanks for that. there was no demo though...
Hmm...
#1939 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/05/18 21:59:13
Should i have an email thread where people can ask each other whether they recieved various emails? It seems like it would get a lot of use, considering the last few months...
Metlslime
#1940 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/05/18 22:10:26
Just add a private messaging feature so people can use that rather than emailing each other...
Or don't, because that'd be a whole lot of work and not really necessary. I seem to be volunteering you for a lot of work lately, feel free to tell me to get bent. :D
Metlslime,
#1941 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.197] on 2004/05/18 23:14:48
I think that would be a really great idea. The conduct of e-mail in these past few months has been unbelieveable. Necros, I'll do another demo run of the map tommorow night (tonight I am one tired little Quake Guy).
Hehe,
#1942 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/19 00:35:57
alright, thanks a lot. i appreciate it. it's been hard to get beta testers lately.
Heh,
#1943 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/05/19 06:27:14
I was joking. Just get email that works!
File Hosting
#1944 posted by Kinn [217.140.39.46] on 2004/05/19 08:18:33
Ok, my map is ready to be unleashed on the world, but being a noob I don't have access to any sort of file hosting.
It's a 6 meg zip. Can anyone recommend anything?
Ignore Above Post
#1945 posted by Kinn [217.140.39.46] on 2004/05/19 09:42:15
ignore the above post - i've sorted it.
Eh,
#1946 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.186] on 2004/05/19 11:23:56
it was worth a shot
Oh Bugger
#1947 posted by Kinn [213.130.132.54] on 2004/05/19 11:57:32
Sorry, it turns out I haven't sorted it at all. Ok, I know this might be a bit of a stretch (being new round here 'n' all), but would anyone here be willing to accept a ~6 meg email attachment and stick it on a server temporarily until I get some hosting sorted out?
Private Messaging Feature
#1948 posted by pushplay [129.128.29.124] on 2004/05/19 15:38:00
Then we would see a lot of posts about "did you get my private message?"
Well, It Could Get Ugly
#1949 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.183] on 2004/05/19 15:41:17
But when has that stopped any of us?
Hosting Problem Solved
#1950 posted by Kinn [81.7.58.187] on 2004/05/19 17:10:56
.
AguirRe
#1951 posted by Kinn [213.130.132.102] on 2004/05/20 12:54:38
To reply to your post in the bastion thread - what are marksurfaces exactly?
Marksurfaces
#1952 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.123] on 2004/05/20 14:44:01
are contained in one of the many data "lumps" that the compiler and other tools put in the bsp, you can see the amount in the bsp summary at the end of the compiler log.
I don't know what they are exactly, but they're probably related to the faces in the map. Metlslime explained more about them earlier in this thread.
In your bsp, the amount is above 34k and most Q1 engines cannot properly handle more than 32k. There seem to be some fuzzy margin that the amount can be exceeded by without causing obvious problems (like crashes), but I don't know how large this margin is.
I know for sure that exceeding the 32k limit can lead to engine crash. In my engine, you'll get a warning when loading a bsp that exceeds certain limits, e.g. the marksurfaces.
I can't say that you'll have to do something about it; other released maps have exceeded this limit and still seem to work. I only mentioned it because some players seem to experience strange engine behaviour while playing your map and this is one possible cause.
I actually blasted through the entire map in god/quad mode as brutally as possible while running the engine in debug mode to see if anything bad would happen, but nothing did. Only packet overflows, which wasn't very surprising.
The gameplay *was* a bit insane at places. I fear that I might not make it through the later parts alive without cheats ... But I'll try!
AguirRe
#1953 posted by Kinn [213.130.132.102] on 2004/05/20 15:00:21
Thanks for the info. It seems that marksurfaces are a bit of a hit and miss thing.
Also very encouraging to know that the map handled a god/quad blast through, especially now that the monsters produce even more gibs. :)
The final area is tough, but search around for a 666 (easy to find) and a quad (hard to find).
AguirRe
#1954 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.209] on 2004/05/20 15:01:40
Thanks for your help a few weeks back -- I finally got the time to take your advice and (click my heals) that thing is finally sealed. A few days working on the texture alignment and it'll be out the door.
Quake 1 Texture Sets
#1955 posted by ToadWarrior [81.100.90.131] on 2004/05/20 17:01:05
Where's the best place to go to look for Quake 1 texture sets?
I've stuck with originals and Q2 textures, for now, but I want something else and preferably with some kind of preview which is hard with ftp sites like gamers.org.
So where would you guys suggest looking?
Toadwarrior
#1956 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.241] on 2004/05/20 17:11:26
check out this thread for texture sets:
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
HeadThump,
#1957 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/20 21:47:32
i tried to watch the demos, but they refused to load. it looks like you used DP to record them? so i downloaded Dp and tried again, but still no luck. what should i do?
That's Odd
#1958 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.94] on 2004/05/20 22:38:36
yeap, I used DP for its effecient rendering -- that's a whole heapin' lot of polies there.
I believe I know the source of the problem. I checked out my hunch; not only is dark places demos incompatable with older versions of Quake (thus the problem using KeyGrip earlier) but versions of DP are incompatable with one another. I tried the demo with a slightly older version of DP and it didn't work,
Here is the thing. Lord Havoc has neglected to update the site info in some time, so the latest build showing is the one from December. This link will get you the newest Beta which I used for recording.
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkpl...
Efficient Rendering.
#1959 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/20 23:35:32
well, that worked, thanks for the demos man. really helpful! :)
Recommended Map Utils For Quake?
#1960 posted by Jago [80.222.173.252] on 2004/05/22 14:01:36
What are the "recommended" map compilation utils for Quake maps these days? I am using wqbsp, rvis+ and tyrlight, but I keep hearing of some newer utils. What are their advantages and where can I download them?
.
#1961 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/22 14:05:23
i recommend all of aguire's compilers without any reservations. they are simply sooo awesome.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
the qbsp is robust and handles almost any kind of brushwork
the vis has a freakin' save feature which pwns me
the light has sweet new things like _softangle for spots, delay5 to keep overbrights for going nuts and just anglesense so that lights on the same plane as other faces get lit.
i'm a fan now. :D
I Wholeheartedly Concur
#1962 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.140] on 2004/05/22 14:25:34
Accept no substitutes :)
Thanks Guys
#1963 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.229] on 2004/05/22 15:01:00
Your excellent maps and continuous stream of new challenges are what keep me going.
Btw necros, where *is* that new impressive map of yours that I've been waiting for?
Waiting
#1964 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/22 15:13:48
for the other maps in it's pack to be finished. ;)
As A Betatester,
#1965 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.234] on 2004/05/22 17:08:19
I think I can leak to you that the map you are inquiring about is simply awesome. One unique situational fight after the next.
Spagetthi Talk
#1966 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/22 17:29:53
As I want to make appear a message in Quake1,
and this message is more than 4 sentences, I would like the appearance take place longer than standard time, how should I do this?
I tried delay, but this makes the trigger take place at a later time, while I mean longer.
Another not so common question:
Playing Quake in senquences one appears at the end level. After this I want to return the player back in the start level with no bossgates, and all triggers off.
Should this be:
spawnflags => kill alltargets
I'm just guessing.
..
#1967 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/22 18:03:41
on your first question, there are two ways of doing it.
one: make a bunch of trigger relays with all the same message which have incremental delays, 0, 2, 4, 6, etc... and have them all fire in order... basically, quake will keep outputting the same message, beeping each time.
two: open the quake.rc file in pak0.pak, and store it in your own pak file. add a line that points says centertime.cfg
now create a file called centertime in the same directory as quake.rc. in that new file, write "scr_centertime 6". now, all centerprint messages will stay for 6 seconds instead of the default 2.
on your second question, i don't think it's possible to erase the player's status with runes without qc. i may be wrong though...
Thanks For Your Answer...
#1968 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/22 20:59:47
I'll try the first with four triggers and delay time, as it feels the most easy way.
By my second one I was wondering, because on the moment one plays the end.bsp I think this option was implemented by the trigger_changelevel.I just can't find the argument, maybe it is also in the quake.rc
In the original Quake I never succeeded to complete the end level without god-mode.
Then the game just start from the beginning with all counts off.
Something That Puzzles Me
#1969 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.150] on 2004/05/23 04:01:30
I have always noticed in Quake that rockets/grenades sometimes pass straight through shamblers without exploding - any idea what causes this?
Also, I have noticed in some maps there are places which cannot be navigated by Shamblers, but other Hull 2 monsters can navigate them perfectly. Has anyone else noticed this and do you think these two issues are related?
There Was A
#1970 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.188] on 2004/05/23 05:52:20
discussion recently about this issue and scrags flying through walls in one of the threads but I can't find it again. I don't recall any explanation was found, though.
Found It
#1971 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.102] on 2004/05/23 09:44:25
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Thanks
#1972 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.106] on 2004/05/23 11:21:58
The shambler thing has got to be one of Quake's greatest mysteries. The scrags-through-walls could just be a bug in the flymonster code, but the fact that all hull 2 walkmonsters share the shambler's movement properties just makes it baffling that this is a shambler-only problem.
Perhaps it really is arcane magyck at work.
Hmmm... "Quake's greatest mysteries" - I think I've coined a new discussion topic :)
Kinn,
#1973 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/23 11:43:44
i honestly think the flying monster ai stuff was a last minute addition to quake, and id just sort of threw it together real quick.
Also,
#1974 posted by Kinn [81.7.58.63] on 2004/05/23 16:23:29
do you think the "shambler only takes 1/2 dmg from explosives" thing was a last-minute fudge to hopefully reduce the no. of people noticing the aforementioned missile-collision bug?
Q1 Doors
#1975 posted by Jago [80.222.173.252] on 2004/05/24 04:45:51
OK, a newbie Q1 mapping question: I have a door that consists of 2 parts, one is going left, the other is going right. I want both parts of the door to open at the same time. As of now, when I approach the door structure, one of the parts starts moving first and the other follows as I come closer to the door. How do I "link" them to open and close together?
Hm
#1976 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/05/24 05:15:11
there is no way to team doors up.
only workaround is to make them work together out of trigger...
Actually
#1977 posted by czg [212.17.144.88] on 2004/05/24 05:52:22
If the two doors are touching, they will team up automatically unless the "dont link" (or whatever) flag is set.
So don't listen to Vondur ;)
Kinn,
#1978 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/24 12:48:42
well, that one i'm entirely sure about...
i think it's more likely that id did that to make the shamblers more difficult without raising their health levels to ridiculous amounts.
i don't really see how reducing the damage they take from explosives would prevent people from noticing rockets going right through them... although, it could be that the warning which was in the quake manual acted as a deterent, so people just didn't use them against them, although grenades are still fairly effective even with reduced damage.
RE: Actually
#1979 posted by Jago [80.222.173.252] on 2004/05/25 10:14:35
"If the two doors are touching, they will team up automatically unless the "dont link" (or whatever) flag is set."
Err, they are touching each other and the "dont link" flag is not set. Yet, they are not linked... Hmm?
Jago:
#1980 posted by czg [80.202.219.252] on 2004/05/25 10:44:09
This means you have failed the test.
Jago
#1981 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.224] on 2004/05/25 11:16:00
Are you the same guy that released the dnspq1 map in '98? I learned a lot about Q1 tech stuff while trying to seal that map and it was good-looking and fun as well.
RE: Jago
#1982 posted by Jago [80.222.173.252] on 2004/05/26 06:55:45
Heh, talk about a "blast from the past". Yes, dnspq1 is indeed my map. "dn" in "dnspq" stands for "Dan Naumov" (my name). It was my first map I had ever released too. I then went ahead to create 3 or 4 Quake 2 maps and 10 maps for Unreal. Then had a huge break in mapping, but am now trying to get back to it.
What Tools Are Used For .spr Editing?
#1983 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.200] on 2004/05/26 23:06:22
Unfortunately the format isnt native to Wally
...
#1984 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/26 23:18:47
the only one i know of is adquedit.
i don't have a link handy, but try googling for it.
if anyone knows any others, i'd like to know too :)
Thank You Kind Sir
#1985 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.76] on 2004/05/27 01:16:23
I believe FC has a link to it on his site
WARNING: CutNodePortals_r: New Portal Was Clipped Away
#1986 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/05/27 05:09:09
Please go here; http://dakza.envy.nu/noclip.htm
Whats going on in these screenshots is some sort of noclip wall effect. you can pass through it to the other side and the map will vis. Theres no actual brush there, Just seems like the game wont draw anything past that point untill you pass that point! Below is the QBSP_LOG.txt with some errors in it.
Take A Look
#1987 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.117] on 2004/05/27 05:57:45
in the Q1 ToolTips at my site, especially in the Leaks and Portal Problems sections. There are also descriptions on some of the warning/error messages, like the one you got.
It's likely your HOM is caused by small brush misalignments in that area.
If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Film At Half Past France
#1988 posted by MadFox [212.204.134.20] on 2004/05/27 12:32:54
I tried installing Keygrip16 on a Win98 for tracking Quake1 movies.
As I installed the program, it said one file had to be renewed: kgdemo
I don't have this file, and can't find it either.
Using the program leads to a first screen of Keygrip and freezes.
Manual says again to renew the kgdemo, which I haven't.
Sounds Like You Need The
#1989 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.81] on 2004/05/27 21:39:33
kgdemo.cfg file. If so I'll send it to you.
Better Than Icecubes
#1990 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/05/28 11:12:26
I would appreciate that.
I Went Ahead And Sent It Last Night
#1991 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.195] on 2004/05/28 11:32:19
looking through the manual it became apparent it is the correct file. Let me know if you have any furthur problems. You may find this utility convient for Quake recam or movie production http://machinima.com/remaic/ as it allows you to edit camera positions in map. The Dead On Que folks who produce it are a splendid group of people.
Ice O Late
#1992 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/05/28 11:48:02
I installed keygrip16. The manual said to delete the kgdemo file and replace it. But I don't understand how to replace a file by a new one that isn't there. Not at keygrip16 or anywhere.
If you say it is the right file, why does it freeze at: welcome to keygrip16 ?
Should it be the Win95 it has to be run under, and not Win98?
I could change a frozen camera, but...
The .cfg File
#1993 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.208] on 2004/05/28 13:16:54
goes in a folder named 'move2id1' beneath the keygip16 folder. My version of it works fine even though I haven't loaded it since last summer.
A few other factors. Check the preferences. Make sure there is a WinQuake path listed and a dem path listed. It does need a .dem file to load correctly. The three Quake .dems will work fine for that purpose.
So if it continues to freeze, open up the kgdemo.cfg ('cfg' is for configure) in note pad and supply the necessary file paths and be sure to match them to your Quake directory and where you keep your .dem files.
,,,
#1994 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/05/28 14:54:04
There used to be a submit link on UnderworldFan's site?
Attn: AguirRe
#1995 posted by biff_debris [24.158.204.102] on 2004/05/29 14:10:25
Was trying to compile my q1sp, and got the error MAX_MAP_TEXINFO, which noone seems to be able to explain, while using TreeQBSP. Anyways, I was in #TF and RPG suggested I use your bspinfo.exe, which was included with the visbjp.zip -- which I did, but I got an even weirder error message: "c:\quake\id1\maps\q1debris5.... is version 1696608047, not 29"
I'm all out, here.
Biff
#1996 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.46] on 2004/05/29 15:06:04
Hmm, that seems unusual, my Tree/Tx compilers shouldn't normally abort on # texinfo. The BspInfo error just indicates that the bsp is corrupt, it should always contain he magic number 29 in a Q1 bsp.
Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at what's going on.
Response To Jago Post #1975
#1997 posted by nane [67.51.34.161] on 2004/05/29 21:07:53
Jago, since I didn't see anyone answer your question, I believe a door with multiple parts may be linked by simply grouping all the brushes together. ...At least that's what I do in Worldcraft and it works. That way you don't need a trigger and door names.
AguirRe
#1998 posted by dakza [216.221.81.97] on 2004/05/30 01:23:52
Thanks for the tip. I'll work on it ASAP. Very informative i might add. (yr page) Provided information difficult to find nowadays.
Any suggestions on a leaky map that dosint appear to have a leak in it? Say the .pts file's line goes through what seems to be a solid brush.
.
#1999 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/30 02:04:32
i've gotten that problem very often, esp when working with natural terrain. usually, the best way to fix it is simply to remake the brush in the editor (delete, and reshape a new one) although it's long, it's usually always works. if not, try splitting the brush up into two or more pieces.
Figgured It Out
#2000 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/05/30 02:11:21
yeah it seems like qbsp dont like it much when brushes are misaligned. Even when said misalignment shouldint cause a leak.
Its all right there on buddy's webpage :)
.
#2001 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/05/30 03:21:42
always map on the grid! besides it looking much better ingame, you avoid lots of little strange problems like that.
Oops
#2002 posted by nane [67.51.34.161] on 2004/05/30 08:32:33
Well... the grouping of door ents might be a superstition, and they could be working for me just as CZG said, because they are touching.
/me sprinkles more giblets in the pentagram around his mapping chair to appease the Quake gods.
RE: Doors
#2003 posted by Jago [195.255.177.120] on 2004/05/31 07:57:16
I will try grouping the entire door to see whether that helps. As of now the left part is grouped together (consists of several brushes) as is the right part.
About Lift And Walking Monsters
#2004 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/06/01 03:20:15
Hello,
I'm back with my basic questions... I never used lift and walking monsters, and would like to use it in the map I'm currently working... I've read somewhere that func_train can be used, but I would like further informations and advices to use it correctly..
Is there a noble man that can help me please ??
Thanks
JPLambert
#2005 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/06/01 05:32:29
Target a path_corner with a monster and it'll walk towards it. (untill awakened). Then target that path_corner to another path_corner and target the second path_corner back to the first path_corner and the monster will pace between those two points.
Thats how you make walking monsters (i think)
Well..
#2006 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/06/01 11:02:05
Thank you, I'll try it as soon as possible...
And now, what about lift ?? I would like to create a lift with "call buttons" and "stair choice buttons" ??? I mean a lift called by button that allow the player choose his stair destination... Is it possible to build that in Q1 ??
Thanks
Crash On Vis Program, Tree Qbsp
#2007 posted by Shadowalker [207.154.80.205] on 2004/06/01 16:08:12
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
There's no email in file. I need to get in contact with them. It crashes on 70% in the vis program.
as
Overlapping Rock Formations
#2008 posted by Kinn [217.140.39.151] on 2004/06/01 16:19:38
Whilst researching for my next Quake map, I godded my way through Alice, to check out the inspiring level design. Now, one thing that really impressed me was a particular style of rock formation that's used extensively throughout a couple of the maps. It appears to consist of loads of overlapping boulder-shaped brushes built up to make huge rocky structures.
Here's a screenshot from Alice illustrating this:
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
Now, I always thought that overlapping brushes like this in Quake was a bad idea, but this is the Quake 3 engine, so I flipped on gl_showtris to see what was going on:
http://photopile.com/photos/slooch...
As you can see, the triangles that make up each boulder aren't actually getting cut up by the overlapping boulders. Am I correct in assuming that these rocks are all detail brushes?
If I was to build rock formations like this in Quake 1, would it be a very bad idea? Bear in mind that I'm not really bothered about r_speeds, I just want to get an idea of it's feasibility from a technical standpoint, i.e. could bsp theoretically cope with all the overlapping brushes, or would it just choke?
aguirRe, any thoughts?
Shadowalker
#2009 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.101] on 2004/06/01 17:44:29
What do you mean by crash in vis at 70%, does it actually crash (with a dialog from the OS), or just seems to be stuck on the same position for a long time?
The former is an error, but the latter is not unusual in some maps, they just take a very long time to finish vis due to unfortunate design. The high-score I've heard so far is 550 hours (on a pretty fast machine) held by Scragbait.
Please email me your zipped map+wad with a description of your problems and I'll see what I can do.
Kinn
#2010 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.101] on 2004/06/01 17:55:39
Brushes that overlap a lot increase processing time (the CSGFaces part in each hull), but thanks to algorithm enhancements by Tyrann the penalty is much less than it used to be.
However, if the overlapping is minor, you can get any kind of problems; leaks, clipping errors and HOMs. It's always a bad thing for qbsp to have multiple planes that are near identical. Then the floating point inaccuracies can produce pretty nasty results.
KInn, I Forgot To Add
#2011 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.101] on 2004/06/01 18:08:11
that you might also want to check the Vis Issues section of my ToolTips for detail brushes in Q1. Please bear in mind that it's not any Magic Bullet, but might be useful in some cases with a bit of planning.
Thanks AguirRe
#2012 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.122] on 2004/06/01 18:11:41
The reason I'm very interested in this method is because I'm planning a large scale map that will be almost entirely rocky terrain.
I'm also currently working on another map that has a fair bit of terrain in it, but it has all been constructed with the "triangle method", which is a nice safe method that gives good results, but is very time-consuming, and isn't very useful for really freeform stuff like in the Alice screenshots.
The "overlapping boulders" method seems like a really quick way of building terrain, but the map I am planning would consist of hundreds upon hundreds of brushes overlapping in this manner - I just wondered if it would be a realistic option.
Crash On Vis Program, Tree Qbsp
#2013 posted by shadowalker [207.154.80.205] on 2004/06/01 18:13:00
ag>What do you mean by crash in vis at 70%, does it actually crash (with a dialog from the OS), or just seems to be stuck on the same position for a long time?
OS crash on my decompiled map elmdm5 which I fixed up since then with colored lits and map fixes. It worked just fine many previous versions of vis. It took about 1 hr to compile on my p200: treeqbsp, vis(that website), and tyrlite.
as
ToolTips
#2014 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.228] on 2004/06/01 18:41:34
Just read the relevant bits, aguirRe, and it got me wondering: just how big can I make a func_wall? You mentioned that all the brushes of a single func_wall must be in the same area, but would I also run into problems if I made a REALLY big func_wall?
Shadowalker
#2015 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.185] on 2004/06/01 19:05:24
OK, please send me the zipped map+wad and I'll try to find out what's happening.
Kinn
#2016 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.185] on 2004/06/01 19:14:25
I've no idea how the compiler (or probably more important, the engine) will handle very big func_walls. What I know is that entity brushes seem to be less efficiently rendered by the engine so you can't go overboard with them.
Also, the reason why you should keep all parts of one func_wall in the same area is that otherwise the engine will have problems knowing whether to render them or not according to the vis PVS (potentially visible set).
In any case, I wouldn't suggest relying too heavily on assumptions of qbsp/engine, you'll have to trial and error step by step.
Big Func Walls:
#2017 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/06/01 21:54:03
parts of your func_wall will not be drawn if it crosses too many bsp nodes, becuase each node it crosses creates an efrag. So as you walk around, you will notice those pieces appearing and dissapearing.
Kinn
#2018 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/06/01 22:27:53
When I was a less knowledgable mapper, I was working on a terrain map for Q2 using almost all overlapping brushes for the rocks -- I'm talking 26 sided cylinders clipped and skewed every which way. When I compiled with the standard tools, it took 4 or 5 days to get half way through it, at which point my computer would just shut down. It is unrealistic to build large areas of rocks/terrain in this manner.
In conclusion, the best way to the kind of map you are talking about is to build it mostly from triangle meshes. A pain in the ass, yes, but you will have very few problems.
Lift
#2019 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/02 02:14:47
Hello,
It seems that major problem than mine occured these night, and then nobody answer my basic question... grrr..
Anyway, I'll retry now: I never used lift (and train as well) into map, and I would like to use them for the next one. So, How can I build a lift with for example 3 stairs, with 3 call buttons on each stair, and the possibilty to choose the stair destination when into the lift ?? It's like our real world lift..... hum...
Is there somebody who knows how to do that ??
Thanks
Thanks Guys
#2020 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.86] on 2004/06/02 04:44:26
I think I'll stick with the triangle method for the time being, until I'm ready to move on to a newer game engine.
===
JPL: the closest behaviour to what you require can be achieved with a func_train, but only if you use the Hipnotic QC source, or equivalent QC which allows trains to pause at each path_corner, waiting for retrigger.
Note that you won't be able to have call buttons inside the lift though, because you can't set up buttons that move as if connected to the lift.
If I were you, I shouldn't worry about trying to do complex mover behaviour like this until you've mastered the basics. Once you can make great "vanilla" Quake maps, then you might want to start thinking about custom QC etc.
Hope this helps :)
Kinn
#2021 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/02 05:10:27
Thanks for this quick reply.
If I understand correctly, it will be very hard to perform a complex and complete lift feature with more tha 2 stages... grr..
And as well, I need to "trigg" the path_corner before it let move the "func_train platform"... but what about the waiting field ?? Do I need to set a wait -1 to stop it ?? But if I set wait -1, does a trigger will be enough to restart the lift ?? Sorry but I'm not sure about the right methos I have to use...
Thanks
JPL
#2022 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.86] on 2004/06/02 06:12:32
You will need to use a "func_train2" in the Hipnotic QC code to make a train (lift) that is capable of stopping and starting.
In the path_corners, set "wait -1". This will stop the lift when it reaches each destination. The train will then need to be retriggered to start moving again.
Note that this is fine for movement between two floors, but as far as I am aware, if you want to give the train a choice of paths (i.e up or down), in a 3 stage lift or more, you will need to write custom QC.
Kinn
#2023 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/02 06:48:17
Concerning QC custom code, I'm not a very well software designer (C code is not my "cup of tea"...)... so, forget this option ;-))
I'm currently building a base-based map using 3 stairs (perhaps 4, it's not yet clearly defined) and an unique lift to reach each stairs should be great... I will see later how to build it, perhaps with an automatic one...
Anyway, thank you very much for these quick replys, and for the informations..
Regards.
JPLambert
#2024 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.146] on 2004/06/02 08:02:26
You could also check out the Custents pak; I think it also has some func_train enhancements. Get Custents at Fat Controller's site http://www.planetquake.com/fatty . Look in the downloads section.
AguirRe
#2025 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/02 08:41:30
I'll take a look later to this link..
Thanks
Or...
#2026 posted by distrans [203.29.11.112] on 2004/06/02 19:57:34
...for the moment, use the Oubliette method. Have the lift (train) access all levels in a continuous loop, but restrict access to all areas until certain buttons are pushed.
Distrans
#2027 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/06/03 02:19:21
This method was the first idea I had... and it seems that I need to come back to it !! Anyway, I've just started the map, and there is still long way before designing the lift... I still have a lot of time before taking a decision about what kind of lift (or several ones.. ) I will use..
Thank you for this advice ...
Triangle Method For Terrain.
#2028 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/06/04 07:11:47
Explain??
Triangle Method For Terrain
#2029 posted by VoreLord [203.51.235.211] on 2004/06/04 07:16:21
http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.ph...
Dakza
#2030 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/06/04 07:36:26
Using triangle method for terrain is great to avoid huge plane terrain, or cliff in a map.. As described in VoreLord related links, you build a surface using triangles.. It is very easy to build if your map editor includes a "brush splitting" tool like described... But in some editor it doesn't exist (like QuArK).. you'll so have to build your triangle-based terrain manually using pyramid or tetrahedron polygons... and it can take you a long time (you can see an example with my "ugly" bunker map.. the dune terrain was built like this..)
You will have a cool look, but there is a bad news.. it increases painfully the VIS process time..
You will so have to find a trade off between compilation timing and polygons number...
Hoping my poor experience gives you some further infos :)
Regards..
#2031 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2004/06/04 17:01:04
quark does have a brush splitting tool? at least it did when i still used it
Cool Beans!
#2032 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/06/04 22:44:20
Thx im gonna Make some kickass terrain now!
Kinda off topic but who wants to recomend a good QWbot? (a bot u kill not a bot that kills for you)
QW Bot
#2033 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/06/05 02:29:22
FrogBot
Bot
#2034 posted by VoreLord [203.51.206.65] on 2004/06/05 04:43:01
I don't know about a "QWBot", but for normal quake, you can't really go past the Omicron
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
especially with an .ent file(route) installed for the map.
Terrain Meshing
#2035 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/06/05 10:25:22
The easiest method by which to create a terrain mesh is, of course, GenSurf. It's fun. Lots.
Combining it with Terragen I can create my heightmaps from pseudo-fractals and a bit of elbow grease in PSP. This gives lots of control over the look and feel of the terrain overall and also allows specific modifications to be made in respect of conventional brushwork, Vis, LOS etc. Even to the level of adjusting one/several terrain vertices by as little as 8 units z-axis by simply changing the color of a pixel.
Optimising the terrain is another matter.
Grouping the whole lot into a func_wall requires that vis blockers be constructed inside the terrain, as per the Q3 terrain method, and with the hope of casting appropriate shadows where the func_wall sadly will not.
Using a single func_wall for a large terrain is also going to shatter the thing into a multitude of efrags, which could look bad as whole rock formations blink in and out of existence due to the vagaries of your PVS. Strategically grouping pieces of the terrain into individual funcs is better and some terrain brushes could even be left solid where useful.
I'm hitting all this stuff because I have been working on a large Q1SP terrain map for the last few weeks and have hit various problems, not least of which being the estimated vis time for a solid terrain version being something in the order of a month.
The strategic func_wall method is probably what I'm going to have to resort to, unless I miraculously gain access to a state of the art processor.
If you use GenSurf, I recommend a mesh resolution of 128 units/triquad. 64 is only really possible for small, isolated bits of rocky stuff in an otherwise 'architectural' map. 256 drops the brushcount+compile time+render issues considerably, but looks extremely naff and is a pain in the arse to traverse.
A large terrain map is a beautiful thing to make, but think very carefuly about exactly what you want to do with it and if you really want to be so ambitious. I wish I'd given more thought to my landscape.
In the absence of Q1 detail brushes, even the generous limits now pushed back by current compilers and engines struggle to swallow massive terrain. Despite its name, even Quake can have a hard time moving mountains :P
Skippy
#2036 posted by VoreLord [203.51.207.142] on 2004/06/06 19:35:39
Tyrann's prog "Skippy", as I understand it is a bit like Quake3's caulk, where any surface with the skip texture on, will be removed from the .bsp, therefore causing the engine to have to draw less (something like that, if I have it right)which you would think is a good thing, so....
does anyone use it?
are there problems with it's use?
are there any benefits to be gained by it's use?
I noticed that the only version I could find is the initial version from 2000, so I thought that maybe work on it was ceased due to problems or whatever. I don't want to get to far using only to find out it was a bad thing.
Any help appreciated
Re: Skippy
#2037 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/06/06 19:48:36
I have no idea why Tyrann dropped development of it. Perhaps because there are no known issues. Anyway, it works fine for me, but I don't use it for the things you asked about; I usually use it for obscure things, such as the "statues" in rpgsmse4.bsp. (Download Quake Condensed from my site if you want to know what I'm talking about http://rpg.spawnpoint.org/ .)
Maybe I'm just deluded, but it seems like it would be a pretty rare circumstance where Skippy would actually be useful for removing rendered but non-visible polygons.
The only issue I ever had with the program was when I tried to encase a func_door elevator with a set of "skip" brush stairs to create the illusion of a moving ladder. The brushes that were inside the "skip" brush were removed along with "skip" faces, resulting in a mostly invisible ladder.
Hmmm
#2038 posted by VoreLord [203.51.195.60] on 2004/06/06 21:48:58
Perhaps I have Skippy by the tail ........
Gibbie
#2039 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/07 02:47:03
What QuArK version do you use ?? I use version 6.4.0 and never I found bsrush splitting tool.. Perhaps I didn't find the stuff yet, and so: where is it ??
Thanks
QuArK Brush Splitter
#2040 posted by aguirRe [62.127.45.190] on 2004/06/07 06:13:47
is in the toolbar, there is a symbol of a cube with a line through it (hover with the mouse over the button and you'll get a brief description, you can also press F1 while the mouse is over the button).
Just select a brush, select the button in the toolbar and draw a line through the brush with LMB and you're done.
You can also cut out corners (i.e. add vertices) by pointing at a corner of a brush and select "Cut out corner" from the RMB menu.
AguirRe
#2041 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/07 06:27:33
I've never seen and used this feature... I'll take a look this evening..
Thanks for this great informations ;-)
Bye
Thanks Kell
#2042 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.57] on 2004/06/07 08:05:08
I have played around with Gensurf before, and it is definately the best way of generating large terrain surfaces.
My current map is largely an architectural map though, with the terrain bits very much playing second-fiddle to the main castle-like structures.
I will put some screenies up when I get around to lighting it.
Vondur
#2043 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.175] on 2004/06/07 09:38:08
Is something wrong with your site or email address? Site seems unreachable and email bounces.
Yes
#2044 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/06/07 09:43:20
i've reached disk space limit there, mailed to isp and waiting for their actions.
so mail and index.html file aren't working atm.
Von
#2045 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/06/07 11:47:19
I've just deleted a lot of my stuff off kell.vondur. Might help a bit.
Kell
#2046 posted by Vondur [81.195.21.177] on 2004/06/07 13:10:38
thanks
looks like the site returned back to normal.
one thing that annoys it still says it has not much free space, as if nothing was deleted... i'll fuck with isp more then.
Vondur
#2047 posted by aguirRe [62.127.44.234] on 2004/06/07 13:49:33
Maybe you should change the site url in the People section, the existing one now reports "no website configured". Or maybe it's a temporary problem, too?
Eh?
#2048 posted by Vondur [81.195.21.177] on 2004/06/07 14:19:08
http://vondur.net works here fine atm
My Bad
#2049 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.116] on 2004/06/07 15:28:54
My local DNS-cache wasn't updated properly. After flushing it, http://vondur.net now properly routs to http://www.vondur.net .
Argh
#2050 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/07 23:42:34
After formatting C and reïnstalling all, my Arghlite seems to freeze.
Compiling and vising goes fine, but the program arglight is somehow delayed by the system.
Large Beam Ray
#2051 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/06/08 06:53:27
In my new Q1SP map, I would like to create a large beam-ray coming from a light, directed in a precise direction, and with a specific shape (cylinder. conic, or other...)... What are the issue to create a light cone or a large light beam like this (if it's possible) ?? Is there someone to explain me the stuff ??
Thanks
JPL:
#2052 posted by Kinn [81.7.58.147] on 2004/06/08 06:57:08
You need to use a Quake engine capable of volumetric lighting - whether one even exists, I don't know.
Or did I see something like this in Nehahra?
Starbuck
#2053 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.108] on 2004/06/08 10:26:34
Did you get any of the emails I sent you the last couple of days?
JPL
#2054 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/06/08 11:42:34
use HalfLife, it has support for that stuff.
JPL
#2055 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/08 14:27:49
The laserbeam pakket from Chtong I made I put on my website.
It's not as specific as you want.(cones radials etc.)
For that you need custent.
https://homedrive.home.nl/gimli/pu...
Note that you can't use doors in it!
Wrong Email
#2056 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/08 14:30:11
http://members.home.nl/gimli/laser...
Wc 1.6a And Xp Problems
#2057 posted by tiddles [81.154.126.153] on 2004/06/08 17:30:56
hi
im using xp pro and trying to use wc 1.6a, i cant select and objects in the 3d window atall :( ? and my texture application tool doesn't work :( can anyone help ?
pete
Wc 1.6a And Xp Problems :)
#2058 posted by tiddles [81.154.126.153] on 2004/06/08 18:01:29
hi
every things werking now, thanks too the great help from jago, you need to turn of hardware accelleration and then restart worldcraft, then no more problems! :D
pete
Heh...
#2059 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.83] on 2004/06/08 22:29:33
I thought that was a double post at first :)
OMG...
#2060 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/06/09 00:31:12
...Tiddles is mapping again!
Kinn, Necros And MadFox
#2061 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/09 06:33:14
Thanks for your feedback.. Even if a standard/GL quake doesn't support volumetric light, is it possible to create directionnal light beam with a cone radial value, etc.. with standard light tools (like TyrLite or aguirRe light tool), or is it impossible ?? Let moe know what your light experience is...
Thanks
Spotlight
#2062 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.182] on 2004/06/09 06:53:15
is the standard way to have a directional light and it has worked since the original Light version. You have to use an entity to target the spotlight and the "angle" key specifies the cone width (default 40 degrees).
Argh/TyrLite and my Light has also the possibility to direct the spotlight via a "mangle" key. In my Light you can also specify a "_softangle" key for a softer spotlight cone. Search for "spotlight" in the readme for my Light tool and see more details.
Except for the obvious spotlight effect, you can also use these lights for very interesting transitional effects by using anti- or local minlight (delay 4) spotlights.
Typically you then use a high angle value (150-180) and a small _softangle (10-90) and direct the spotlight along a corridor or down a bottomless chasm. Experiment for best results.
AguirRe
#2063 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/09 06:59:56
Cool... It is exactly what I was looking for !!!
Thank you very much
Ohhh
#2064 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/06/09 11:55:11
holy shit, i thought you were talking about special effects like the HL laser beam thing... sorry, i misunderstood! :P
You're Welcome
#2065 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/09 13:05:26
Chtong will roast me for that....
Never Heard Of
#2066 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/09 15:23:02
Compiling a Q1bsp I suddenly receive the message at the end of
models*59
+++ERROR+++
Entity tex too long
Are my monsters talking too long?
In Older Compilers
#2067 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.74] on 2004/06/09 15:34:12
the entity section can only be 64k, you've exceeded that limit. Either you'll have to shrink the amount of entity data (by e.g. removing default keys or entire entities) or switch to a newer compiler with a higher limit.
I assume you're still using qbsp256, its entity limit is only 64k.
Thanks
#2068 posted by MadFox [212.204.129.94] on 2004/06/09 15:41:52
never saw the message before.
...
#2069 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/06/09 16:15:28
why on earth would any one handicap themselves by using qbsp256? O_o
See Here
#2070 posted by aguirRe [62.127.46.186] on 2004/06/09 16:56:21
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Using my ConvMap utility, you can actually do the same grid-snapping in a pre-compiler step, just run:
convmap -l2 -i mapname
txqbsp mapname.out
ConvMap will just cut off the fractional part and keep the integer, essentially what qbsp256 does. See ConvMap readme for more details.
Bengt
#2071 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/06/09 20:09:28
i got your message and replied just now.
Q1 Tools Update
#2072 posted by aguirRe [62.127.47.251] on 2004/06/11 05:58:15
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Minor improvements and bug fixes in several tools and engine. Please see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Wad To Bsp/map To Me.
#2073 posted by truskoski [67.41.168.91] on 2004/06/12 02:44:58
i dont know if this has been asked before, looked on this thread and i couldnt find it so here. is are there any tools to convert a doom wad file into a bsp or map file for quake1? or at least, can it be done?
thats it.
A Quick Search
#2074 posted by aguirRe [62.127.65.186] on 2004/06/12 02:51:19
of wad2map and wad2bsp at Google revealed some info that might be useful.
Me Happy, Me Horny Too
#2075 posted by truskoski [67.41.168.91] on 2004/06/12 07:15:04
thanks man
AguirRe
#2076 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/06/12 12:43:40
I could never figure it out, what´s the exact difference between TxQBSP and TreeQBSP?
Historically
#2077 posted by aguirRe [62.127.63.223] on 2004/06/12 12:54:54
there used to be a world of difference, but I've crossfed features between them so now they produce near identical result on any map. If in doubt use TxQBSP, that's what I use all the time.
Please note that Tx has watervis default ON, while Tree's got it OFF. Both can be switched either way via options, of course.
O_O
#2078 posted by Kinn [217.140.38.229] on 2004/06/12 18:35:24
aguirRe, I use Hammer and TreeQBSP, do I have any reason to switch to Tx?
Kinn
#2079 posted by aguirRe [62.127.67.247] on 2004/06/12 18:48:02
As I said, they both produce near identical result (if watervis is set the same). AFAIK, there's no particular reason to use Tree anymore, but Tx has got a nice feature to select starting hull which is very useful in big maps when hunting leaks in hulls 1/2.
Try it, you might like it ...;)
Interesting
#2080 posted by Kinn [217.140.38.229] on 2004/06/12 18:50:59
I'm curious: what is the reason for having the two different versions?
Well, There Were
#2081 posted by aguirRe [62.127.62.76] on 2004/06/12 21:11:47
two versions to begin with, Tree which is made by Greg Lewis and Tx that is made by Armin Rigo (also the man behind QuArK), both building upon the work of the original tools from id software.
I just started three years ago to improve and fix the bugs that I found especially annoying then (like leak handling).
Since Tx was the only compiler at the time that I knew could handle QuArK's float maps and Tree being the most memory efficient and otherwise overall better compiler, I started to work with both tools in parallel.
Over time, they became more and more similar due to my crossfeeding of features and adding work by Tyrann and ideas of my own to the mix.
So far it's been a help for me to have two implementations that basically do the same thing but in a slightly different manner, it's like a 2nd opinion.
Cool
#2082 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.70] on 2004/06/13 04:17:27
are you considering merging them at some point in the future?
I Can't See Any
#2083 posted by aguirRe [62.127.68.55] on 2004/06/13 06:17:33
point in merging them. If anything will happen it's me dropping Tree, but that's also a bit unlikely, since I like both and they serve a purpose.
Re: Q1 Tools Update
#2084 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/06/14 22:39:29
aguiRe, my comment is that I'd really prefer you to put the readme files inside the zips... :)
Having the readme also available seperately is fine and good, but by leaving it out of the zip files you're only saving a few kilobytes. I find myself having to download the zip file and then also download the txt seperately.
That's hardly a big deal and it won't kill me, but nevertheless I'd prefer if the readme were included in the zip, unless there's some compelling reason for not doing so.
But You Have To Admit, Mr Fribbles
#2085 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.85] on 2004/06/14 23:42:15
that they make for good reading
Frib
#2086 posted by aguirRe [62.127.69.173] on 2004/06/15 05:59:11
My main excuse for not including the readmes in the zips are for easy updating of the readmes without having to upload the zips again. I'm still on dialup and that means max 33k upstream.
AguirRe
#2087 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/17 04:29:10
I updated my flow yesterday with your new TxQBSP (and RVIS tool), and what a surprise !! Some non understood texture alignement warnings disappear with your TxQBSP new release (there was some r_CuteNodePortal warnings, pointing some textures location out of polys !!!)... I don't know what you exactly did, but it seems to work better with this new version !!
About readme file not included into zip file, I don't think it's a real problem... Downloading some kBytes files is not a big challenge, even with a standard 56k modem... it took approximatively ... 10 seconds at worst... I really it's not able to increase your phone bill, unless you are a little stingy...
Thanks a lot aguirRe..
Bye..
Hmm
#2088 posted by aguirRe [62.127.68.150] on 2004/06/17 04:59:19
I don't know why the latest minor Tx update seems to make such an improvement for you, but I'm glad it did.
AguirRe
#2089 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/17 05:09:21
With last TxQBSP, it appeared some r_CuteNodePortal warnings, giving a texture location out of any poly face... so it becomes hard to find from where the problem comes (regarding the read of your Q1ToolTips text file: it comes for sure from a unaligned textures..) The more when QuArK "search holes in map" tool found nothing... (in most of case, QuArK "search holes in map" tool can point up problem sometimes not detected, or not clearly detailed with TxQBSP (like poly unaligned location, or texture unaligned, or others..).. Anyway, trying the new one, these warnings disappear... so that's why I'm rather happy the problem seems to be solved... I will see later if they will reborn later (hoping not)
Bye..
CutNodePortals_r
#2090 posted by aguirRe [62.127.63.252] on 2004/06/17 05:35:15
warning has nothing to do with textures or their alignment; it's caused by brushes being off-grid or misaligned to each other.
The reason why the coordinates sometimes seem to be in empty space, is because the warning then appears in hulls 1/2, where the brushes are invisibly expanded (see also ToolTips for more info).
To find the culprit, look in the nearby area for non-axial or complex brushes and perform force-to-grid actions on them one by one until you see the warning disappear. It can be a bit cumbersome ...
Also, the QuArK built-in leak detection is not very good; it often finds a leak where there is none or fail to find one that really exists.
AguirRe
#2091 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/17 05:42:27
Thx for these precisions... But then, why these warnings disappeared from old TxQBSP version to latest verison ??? Have you an idea ??
What Do You Mean
#2092 posted by aguirRe [62.127.67.22] on 2004/06/17 08:58:20
by old version, previous i.e. 1.07?
The only thing I can think of is that I know QuArK is shuffling all brush faces around within each brush each time you perform a save-load-build sequence. That can affect all kinds of things like warnings/leaks etc.
However, in both my compilers since a long time, I automatically perform a deterministic face sort to avoid these build variations. It can be disabled by using the -nosortface option. Normally I wouldn't recommend using that option.
I know GlassMan had a similar problem in GtkRadiant when building his gmsp3 map. By manipulating a light entity, a leak would appear/disappear nearby. The editor is probably shuffling the brushes/entities around and this can affect build results slightly.
Otherwise I don't really know.
AguirRe
#2093 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/17 09:08:18
What Do You Mean by old version, previous i.e. 1.07?
Yes, I used the previous 1.06 one before I updated it yesterday. And I still don't know why it works better now...(??)
By manipulating a light entity, a leak would appear/disappear nearby
Typically, these problems come when complex brush (i.e. staircase maker, arch maker, etc...) exist in the map... It can also appear/disappear with a polygon add/substract... It's again a mysterious work way..
Well, sure you are right in your analysis.. You are too strong man ;-)
Thanks again
Bye
Item_key Issue
#2094 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/28 02:12:05
Hello,
I'm back with my beginner's problem... :) I'm currently mapping a base-based map, and I would like to know how to change the key looks like in the game. When I use keys, they preserve their castle-gothik looks, and I would like a "base key card" look...
So, what is the additional field I have to add in my key description ??
Thanks
If You're Using WC...
#2095 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2004/06/28 02:29:59
...open map properties and change ambience to base.
Keys
#2096 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2004/06/28 02:31:23
Set worldtype 2 as a worldspawn key.
Stuff like that would be easier if you were using gtk.
Distrans / Pushplay
#2097 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/28 02:40:20
Well, so I need to change the map ambiance property by the worltype field in the worlspawn description
...
Thank you very much, I was looking about item_key properties only, so after a carefull look at
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
I found what I was a looking for... Thank you very much for your help...
Bye..
Jpl
#2098 posted by VoreLord [203.51.221.77] on 2004/06/28 04:00:04
Please don't be afraid to post, or send me any links like the above that you come across. I like collecting stuff like that, so when I am the last man alive still playing around with Quake I can have as much info as possible at my disposal
VoreLord
#2099 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/06/28 04:16:00
Happy to see you enjoy the link... Just an additional information: this link describes only standard Quake Map Specifications, and many other fields can be added (for example in lights description or worlspawn description, or others...) which are specificly used by BSP / VIS / LIGHT tools... (see light aguirRe's VIS and LIGHT tools for example..) but I'm pretty sure you already know that ;)
Terrain Maps In Q1
#2100 posted by aguirRe [62.127.66.160] on 2004/06/30 20:24:18
Those of you that are building Q1 maps with terrain generators might have noticed that the player can sometimes get caught on invisible objects while moving close to the terrain.
This is due to limitations in the brush expansion logic for the clipping hulls in qbsp. To get a better understanding of how this logic works, you can enable the -hull 1 option in Tx/TreeQBSP to make hull 1 visible.
Then you'll actually see the protruding objects that the player collides with. You'll probably also notice that some brush designs will produce worse results than others.
Terrain Expansion
#2101 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/07/01 11:44:58
A-ha! ( not the nordic pop band, mind you ) There's an example of this in my terrain map where a steep angular hillside sticks out onto a ledge; there's already limited space to move over to the end of the ledge to get a health pack, and both I and the monsters in the area get fux0red by something sticking way out from the slope.
I'll maybe try -hull 1 and see what's what.
Still can't run a full vis on the thing though, since it estimates over a month in compile time o_O
The Player
#2102 posted by aguirRe [62.127.70.21] on 2004/07/01 12:51:03
and most monsters use hull 1 for collision detection, while e.g. shamblers use hull 2 which is even more expanded (looks really weird).
Making the clipping hulls visible doesn't fix anything but it might help understand why these symptoms occur. There is an option -altexpand to alter the behaviour of the brush expansion logic, but it's a bit controversial and usually doesn't really fix the problem.
AquiRe
#2103 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.27.203] on 2004/07/02 05:46:27
Just a general question... if only large monsters use hull 2 (and the player does not use it at all), would it be possible to remove that hull from a deathmatch-only map and save some space?
Of course the reduction in file size would probably not be significant at all, so I doubt it would be worth it. I don't necessarily want to do it, I just want to know if you <can> (potentially).
Brush Expansion
#2104 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.214] on 2004/07/02 05:54:05
Can covering the offending area in clip brushes sometimes help this problem?
Installed Windows Xp
#2105 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/02 09:47:17
and now my Quake1 cries with SIGSEV failures...
Frib
#2106 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/02 10:12:01
This isn't what you wanted to know, but if you did that then you couldn't play the map in DMSP.
Frib
#2107 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.214] on 2004/07/02 10:36:58
It's pretty hypothetical but yes, in theory it should be possible (if the engine also was changed in a similar way).
Other games (e.g. Hexen2, HL, Q2) has an extra crouching hull so I can't see any obvious reason why it should be impossible to remove the shambler sized hull if there are no shamblers around that can complain.
You wouldn't save much space, though. Especially since DM maps are generally smaller and with less detail to keep r_speeds low.
Kinn
#2108 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.214] on 2004/07/02 10:47:23
Yes, if the clip brushes would completely cover the invisible protruding objects in the hull in question.
The clip brushes get expanded the same way as other solid brushes so if you can't confirm by "feeling" that the the clip brush works, you could use another texture momentarily and build with -hull 1 to visually confirm it.
The main problem with the expansion is that it gets unexpected on complex brush shapes. It's always simple to imagine how a cube is expanded, but pointy triangular shapes that look great in the editor, can grow like cancer in the other hulls.
AguirRe:
#2109 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/02 13:28:58
I've spent some time looking at the expansion code, trying to solve the strange clipping bugs you guys are talking about. It SEEMS like the code was designed the way it should be, and i wonder if there just isn't some implementation bug. Or, a precision problem?
I never checked out your visible hull stuff, and it would probably help me understand exactly what wrong results the current expansion code is generating.
Anyway, this is one of those things i really wish could be fixed in qbsp, if anyone ever finds the bug or realizes why it doesn't work.
Well
#2110 posted by aguirRe [62.127.68.165] on 2004/07/02 18:39:18
AFAIK the brush expansion isn't really a "bug" since there's no obvious way to do it without getting protruding parts in some junctions.
Changing this logic is controversial because most experienced Q1 players (not to mention speedrunners) know how a map should "feel" when they see it.
Me and Tyrann have spent a long time spanning several years trying to find the cure for the brush expansion related problems, especially the theoretically impossible leaks in hulls 1/2 (when hull 0 is sealed). Same for the annoying clipping errors; there are a whole list of variants just for them.
I've also contacted XP-Cagey who works with the HL tools and he confirms the problems and it appears that in HL, the situation is even worse. Apparently, he's found some kind of solution (or at least improvement) for HL and I've tried to translate it to Q1 but I've only managed a partial implementation so far (available with the -altexpand option).
Any help or suggestion regarding these problems are welcome, but I've a feeling that the solution might be complex. The whole build process seems to be something of a hazy floating point stochastic (or even chaotic) process, where small changes can have large impact elsewhere. I hope I'm wrong ...
But check out the hull visualization, I think it's a real eye-opener for most mappers (and players too).
I Forgot To
#2111 posted by aguirRe [62.127.70.130] on 2004/07/03 06:52:07
mention that the brush expansion logic is also the reason why I think that e.g. creating a block of natural rock from one multifaced brush is better than several triangular ones that together form that block. Even though there's no difference when looking at it in the editor, the expansion might be different.
The multifaced brush will just expand pretty logically outwards and will not generate any weird protruding objects. The expansion is always done for each brush separately so it won't notice that after expansion, the brushes might not join nicely anymore.
There are probably other aspects of this issue too.
#2112 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/07/03 11:34:53
creating a block of natural rock from one multifaced brush is better than several triangular ones that together form that block
Now that would be particularly relevant to Gensurf created terrain, because the t-mesh is neccessarily composed of individual triangular brushes.
The more I read in this thread, the less I want to finish my map :(
Merging Brushes
#2113 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/03 12:28:34
When I was working on the terrain in RPGDM1 recently, I noticed that entire vertical patches of triangular brushes could be exactly reproduced by clipping pieces off of a 6-sided block. That was quite cool, and really helped the clipping problems.
/me HUGs 3-point clipping
________
Hmm. After writing this, it seems less relevant than I thought.
Sorry If I Sound
#2114 posted by aguirRe [62.127.69.170] on 2004/07/03 12:43:07
discouraging, there are other opinions that promote triangular brushes instead (which may very well be right) so the case isn't clear.
I'm just trying to rationalize around the brush expansion issue to help mappers understand some of the underlying structure.
I also forgot before to add a link to XP-Cagey's interesting article in the subject: http://xp-cagey.com/?article=1000 .
Nice Link
#2115 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/03 13:17:42
Thanks.
Winxp A Quake1 Killer?
#2116 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/03 13:45:11
So if Quake1 doesn't work under WinXp, I tried the WinQuake program. And then it does.
But when I run my convertion with my selfmade monsters, they don't appear in game.
The program starts at the start.bsp without messages, but when I run a saved game, it suddenly comes with all those errors asking for the monsters I put in the progs.dat?!
Why doesn't it do so when I start a game?
#2117 posted by Kell [212.159.25.186] on 2004/07/03 13:50:34
Are you running the game from your own custom directory? e.g. c:/quake/winquake.exe -game madfox
Also,
#2118 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/03 14:30:34
remember to delete opengl.dll in the quake folder so that you can use glquake with new graphics cards.
Point Is
#2119 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/03 16:44:38
it's the same directory from C:\ I used to play with under Win98, and there was no problem.
Now with WinQuake, it seems to block out my progs content in the pak file, giving all these edickts of finding no monster_orb etc.
RE: Winxp A Quake1 Killer?
#2120 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/07/03 17:02:25
I´ve been running Quake1 on WinXP for years without issues.
Just A Thought
#2121 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/03 17:52:11
but how do you managed this without winquake?
it kills all my convertion options.
RE: Just A Thought
#2122 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/07/03 18:05:51
Use FitzQuake for NetQuake and FuhQuake for QuakeWorld.
MadFox
#2123 posted by aguirRe [62.127.70.252] on 2004/07/03 18:35:44
The only engine that doesn't work in XP is DOSQuake, all others work fine including WinQuake.
Follow Kell's advice and check out the shortcut contents and make sure it's the same as you were using in Win98 with DOSQuake. Many engine options are identical in all engines.
XP Intruder
#2124 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/04 11:36:47
If I use Telejanos, everything comes through all right.When I use DOSQuake, with the same options as in Win98, suddenly all my own monsters are gone. And I do play it from C.
I don´t mind if happening so, but I like to play Quake straight, without comparing engines before it. I found Telejanos is working so dark, couldn´t change the gamma. Made me make the levels much lighter, but then the original engine makes it too bright.
It comes to me as a surprise WinXP is capturing all my own monsters from the progs.dat
MadFox
#2125 posted by Kinn [81.7.53.84] on 2004/07/04 12:15:45
I'm sorry, but we can guarantee that it's not the engine, or your operating system, that is preventing your mod from being detected.
Also, I'm sure you're aware of this, but you do have your mod files in a seperate game folder? (e.g. C:\QUAKE\MadFox) - I know some people have tried putting their mod files inside ID1, and then they wonder why it doesn't work correctly.
I Just Chequed, And
#2126 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/04 12:41:06
my Telejanos under C: won´t show them, although the same pak file under D: works good.
I made a pakfile with Quark,
made a file maps for the bsp´s,
made a file progs for the mdl´s,
and a file for the sounds.
Could be I have to use two pakfiles, but I find it strange the same pakfile runs good under D: and C: fails...
CAPS LOCK
#2127 posted by Preach [81.154.30.5] on 2004/07/04 14:02:43
Do any of your mod's files have capital letters in them? This is especially important for the files in the pak. DOSquake really doesn't like them, and so it might just not be recognising the files because of that. It's quite likely that telejano has this fixed...but of course I could be totally wrong here. Anyway, try making sure all the filenames and extentions are lowercase if they aren't already.
Thanks For Your Answer
#2128 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/04 14:36:49
No, I just get confused while I can't see why it works under D:\ and not under C:\
-hull 1 Question
#2129 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/04 18:28:18
I have a few clipping problems in this map I'm working on, so I tried using -hull 1 -solid -noents on TreeQBSP. Well it seemed to work fine, everything was expanded, but I didn't notice anything that would have been causing the clipping errors. I'm just supposed to look for misaligned surfaces, spaces that are too short, and things of that sort, right?
There Is No
#2130 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.69] on 2004/07/04 20:02:34
guarantee that clipping errors always will become visible when using that option but if you actually *do* see a HOM, it's a safe indication on a brush problem in that spot.
Typical causes are misaligned brushes or sometimes even a nearby pointy brush that somehow "pokes" a hole through the damaged brush.
If you send me the zipped map+wad and a description how to find the spot (or coordinates), I'll take a look and see what I can find out.
Thanks
#2131 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/04 20:12:50
I'll send the message shortly. Gotta put all the textures in one wad.
Stupid Me
#2132 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/04 20:21:59
forgot to put in the progs.dat and progs.src
now everything runs fine again.
Hmm...
#2133 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/05 23:16:37
Great link aquirre, that explains the thing i was missing -- i thought that the qbsp bevelling would be sufficient, but i hadn't thought of the case where the blade of a wedge-shaped brush is running at an angle like that.
After further thought, i don't think xp-cagey's solution actually solves all cases -- he seems to have handled all problems caused by sharp edges, but imagine a sharp point at a weird angle, such as a pyramid with the pointy end in a nonaxial direction -- this still wouldn't be solved by his code becuase he's only looking at edges.
Still, it's an improvement to go from handling all faces and some edges correctly to all faces and all edges. I think a final bit of code to address points as well would finish off the problem for good.
Unless Of Course...
#2134 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/05 23:19:24
it's a precision problem rather than a logic problem.
Yikes
#2135 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.36] on 2004/07/06 01:55:09
One of the reasons the map I'm working on has such a huge brush count is my liberal use of triangles, on architectural as well as terrain brushes. I haven't been that aware of the hull expansion issues until now. Bugger.
More On The Issue
#2136 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.118] on 2004/07/06 06:20:19
As I think I mentioned before, HL seems to have had worse problems than Q1, so at least one of the cases XP-Cagey's describing in the article is already covered by the original Q1 expansion code.
He sent me some map examples that he claims fails in HL and they worked as expected in Q1.
I have a feeling that the problem is a combination of brush expansion, CSGFaces (brush merging), outside filling, SolidBSP (building the final tree) and numerical errors along the way.
Since I doubled the precision (to 64-bit) in my compilers, they work much better than before, so precision is involved but increasing it can only do so much. It's also interesting that doing the same to e.g. vis, doesn't make any difference at all.
Tyrann made a great stab at it in his TyrQBSP and some of the solutions he put in there, I've imported in my versions. Overall, it doesn't really seem to help, it only makes the compiler faster and a bit more consistent.
Kinn: If you don't have any obvious problems, maybe you shouldn't worry too much yet? After all, this isn't a new problem and it's definitely not worse than it was before.
Aquire
#2137 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.27] on 2004/07/06 11:44:59
'As I think I mentioned before, HL seems to have had worse problems than Q1'
I can attest to that after spending a weekend playing the Sweet Half-Life mod (mostly awesome BTW). I seemed that it was possible to get stuck in several areas that I would not even think of needing a noclip brush in within a Quake map.
Maybe
#2138 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.76] on 2004/07/06 13:05:35
the mappers of that HL-mod should try out XP-Cagey's tools, he seems to know lots about this and other tool issues. Since I assume that the original HL-tools were based on the Q1 ones, it's a bit surprising that they are inferior in this aspect.
Aguirre:
#2139 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/06 14:07:46
HL seems to have had worse problems than Q1
That might simply be becuase of the "normalization" thing he talks about in part 2 ... it sounds like a horrible idea :)
Anyway, i'll try to do some code diving some time in the future and see if i can actually come up with any improvements on this front.
Texture Grid
#2140 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/06 20:06:28
I finally managed some clipping in Quark64.
But it is rather a brute instrument, it took me half an houre to get the comparing textures right, the stupid thing is working like it has drunk a bottle of XXX.
If I make a same kind of brush, and add it, it is done in a minute!
Isn't there a more clever way to size the grid?
ie. move 16 up or down?
.
#2141 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/06 23:25:31
is there not a slider on the top left corner of the screen to control the grid settings?
Hep Meh, Hep Meh!
#2142 posted by Morfans [217.137.131.6] on 2004/07/07 03:15:19
Gentlemen,
Does anyone have any ideas as to why a simple but moderately large q1sp would run fine in winquake but crash out with "Allocblock : full" when run in glquake, macglquake or joequake?
Thanks.
Morfans
#2143 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/07 03:54:14
Did you set memory extension in your glQuakes (like a -winmem 32 command line or something like this )?? It seems you did it with winquake... but not with your glQuakes... :o\ It's why it works fine with WinQuake but not with the other engines...
Heh
#2144 posted by Morfans [217.137.131.83] on 2004/07/07 04:07:16
Thanks JPL, but that was the first thing we checked. I just changed the "win" to "gl" so all other parameters were the same. :-)
To clarify. If runs in the software version of each engine (win, mac and joe) fine but in the GL version AllocBlock: Full.
Morfans
#2145 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/07 04:18:17
.. I have already "met" this probelm, but I'm unable to remind where it comes from, and how to solve it... sorry... :( ...
Did you made a try with FitzQuake ??
Take A Look
#2146 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.230] on 2004/07/07 04:23:41
at the TooTips at my site http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k , it explains why it (and many other problems) happens.
There is also an enhanced GLQuake engine that most likely will load that bsp. If it doesn't, let me know and I'll look into it.
AguirRe
#2147 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/07 04:56:49
I found this in your ToolTips
"AllocBlock: full"
This error is directly related to lightmaps in the engine, but is normally caused by a leaking or
boxed large map. Seal the map or remove box. GLQuake 1.11 or Tomaz/Win/TyrQuake can usually load
this kind of bsp.
Can I have some further explanations please, I'm not sure to clearly understand the source of the problem (the part concerning boxed large map)
Thx
AguirRe
#2148 posted by Morfans [217.137.131.83] on 2004/07/07 05:10:54
Thanks, that's a big help. Investigations will continue and I'll report back later :-)
JPL
#2149 posted by Fat Controller [202.0.54.24] on 2004/07/07 05:50:44
A "boxed" map is one where the entire leaky structure is wrapped in a huge box (also referred to as a "daiper".) This is generally a desperation measure taken to get a map to work.
While doing this lets the map vis, there's still a performance hit due to visibility calculations being done for the spaces outside the map proper. Also, lightmaps are computed for this "outside" space, bulking up the lightmap data size even more, especially when the box is extremely big.
If you absolutely cannot find a leak, shrink your box as tightly as possible around the region/s in question, like I did in Swamp.
Fat Controller
#2150 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/07 06:15:02
Thank you very much, now I clearly understand the issue, and I think it's not a good way to build a good quality map...
I'm pretty sure this kind of "turnaround" can be avoided with a lot of care during the map design.. and using a lot of compilation steps... With my first map (Hatchepsout), during the first tries, I found one big leak problem, and I solve this by restarting from a stable point (from scratch here !!!)... Too many copy-paste without textures and brushes re-alignment were involved here.. But I restart with a lot of care and methodology regarding brush and texture issues, etc.. .. and no more this leak problem occurs.. Sure it can be more complicated for huge map, and when the design is almost finished.. In my humble opinion of beginner (I started mapping just since 6 months, more or less.., and I guess pros-mapper should think the same), I really think it denotes a loss of care during map design... I'm not saying the mapper is a bad one, just saying he have to take much more care at what he does... even if sometimes QBSP tools work in mysterious ways... some warnings issues are sometimes very "esotheric" -8o\ ...
Anyway, thanks for the explanations... sure I will try not to do some "huge boxed map" designs...
Bye..
JPL
#2151 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.123] on 2004/07/07 10:53:54
Basically what Fatty just said except that normally there's no big performance hit in-game, since vis will [very slowly] discover that the outside isn't very visible from the inside (if the leak isn't very large).
But it most certainly puts an extra burden on all the tools and engine. Vis time can easily be extended 10-100 times by boxing a big and complex map.
Morfans: Was it an old Q1SP map or a new one that you had the AllocBlock error in? I'm always interested in troublesome maps.
Aguirre
#2152 posted by inertia [24.164.65.166] on 2004/07/07 15:06:02
simple question:
if you have access to the bsp compiler source code, why is anything a mystery? is it just very very complex?
AllocBlock: Full
#2153 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/07 15:07:07
Is a lightmap allocation problem. If there's too much surface area in your map, there will be too much lightmap data to store in glquake's fixed-size lightmap arrays.
In addition to leaky maps or maps with boxes around them, it's also caused by maps simply being really big.
I'm Guessing
#2154 posted by Kinn [81.7.61.78] on 2004/07/07 15:58:05
you could reduce the lightmap size by strategically scaling up textures in places that can't be seen by the player.
Inertia
#2155 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.46] on 2004/07/07 16:38:48
At least for me it's very complex, there are an incredible amount of float calculations and comparisons that easily can have an adverse effect on the results.
There are also several data abstraction models and 3D-algorithms that can be hard to penetrate.
It's actually pretty easy to write code that offer very complex results; just look at the simple fractal equations that unfold to amazing patterns when translated into graphics.
Thanks Necros...
#2156 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/07 17:24:15
for your post #2141, but I'm may overlooked something in the Quark64 program.
A slider on the top left corner?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/quak0...
Kinn:
#2157 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/07 17:59:28
that's correct.
MadFox
#2158 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.179] on 2004/07/07 18:04:31
In my QuArK 6.3 version there is like necros said a grid button to the left in the toolbar, you seem to have rather different buttons from my version of QuArK. You might consider to reset the toolbar to default (if it isn't) or add the grid button to the toolbar (if possible).
In any case, you can also set the grid in Options-Configuration-Map-Display-... step.
Hmm
#2159 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.179] on 2004/07/07 18:06:45
Why was the text Grid in the last sentence replaced with dots?
Aguirre:
#2160 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/07 18:15:18
there's a limit on the length of "words" on func, to prevent the page width from being pushed out by long strings of letters with no spaces. One of my to-do items is to redo the html so that individual posts can't push out the entire table.
Hmm, but since hyphens are treated as a word-break in browsers, i should probably have allowed for that in the code.
Ah OK
#2161 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.31] on 2004/07/07 19:05:46
I thought it had some similarity to the shortening of URLs. Or possibly the word "Grid" was considered offensive so I'd have to spell "G**d" ...
But It's G00D For Me..
#2162 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/07 20:40:16
My grid texture was standing on 1, and that just doesn't worked so well.
Seems I must take some time reading the manual before strugling with these new programs.
Thanks a lot!
Madfox
#2163 posted by DaZ [80.189.42.10] on 2004/07/08 09:42:34
it varies from person to person, but I usually work with the grid set at 8, small enough to get fine details, but large enough to avoid annoying tiny leaks and overlaps etc.
Hope that helps
Grid Setting In Quark6.4
#2164 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/07/08 10:04:36
MadFox: I'm currently using QuArK6.4 and I'm pretty sure a grid setting button exist in the tool bar, located in the top left corner... See this for an overview..
http://www.planetquake.com/quark/i...
and these one for the settings
http://www.planetquake.com/quark/i...
DaZ: Personnally I prefer to work with a grid set at 4... and so I agree with you: it depends from the designer..
Eh Da Fuk?
#2165 posted by czg [80.202.219.19] on 2004/07/08 10:24:13
It's not like the grid size is fixed while you're mapping is it? You just set the grid to whatever size you'd like it to be at that precise moment, it's not much more complex than hitting a button or two...
What grid size do you map on?
I use whatever size I need, u craka.
Czg
#2166 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/07/08 10:34:51
Do you mean you are sometimes changing your grid settings during your mapping work ??!! Is it not a little bit dangerous to ensure correct brush alignement ??? I mean, changing, for example, grid setting from 4 to 32 can be very tricky while trying to place two brushes side by side, with a face touch... How do you perform that ?? I'm really very curious to hear that...
Grid Setting
#2167 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.24] on 2004/07/08 10:52:13
only affects alignments made afterwards, it doesn't move already positioned brushes (unless you align them again of course). I think this behaviour is the same in all editors.
Eh Da Fuk? Part 2
#2168 posted by pjw [63.236.226.222] on 2004/07/08 10:54:20
What the hell.
I change grid settings all the time while mapping. It's not tricky.
Changing 4 to 32 only means you'll have one square instead of eight; it's not like the overall grid moves around on you.
Also: http://www.planetquake.com/pjw/gra...
?!
#2169 posted by Friction [80.186.145.82] on 2004/07/08 11:26:35
I just shot a keyboard from my nose throught the table. You owe me a new table!!
Grid settings are for selecting at what accuracy you wish to manipulate the brush. Nothing more. What's so complicated about that?
Grid Setting
#2170 posted by JPL [212.96.81.60] on 2004/07/08 13:07:30
Thanks to all, I now what is grid setting... blah.. I'm a beginner, but not a geek... I was just saying it can be tricky to align a brush placed with a grid set to 4, and an other one with a grid set to 32... What is assuming you are able to align easily the two brushes ?? Nothing... so I thing changing grid settings during mapping mybe dangerous... that's all...
Understanding How The Grid Works
#2171 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.93] on 2004/07/08 13:23:12
does not make one a geek ;)
Elaboration
#2172 posted by DaZ [80.189.51.22] on 2004/07/08 13:24:49
my "default" grid size for most work is 8, I then change it if the situation calls for it.
#2173 posted by pjw [63.236.226.222] on 2004/07/08 13:25:03
What is assuming you are able to align easily the two brushes ??
That fact that 4 goes evenly into 32. If it was three brushes made with grid settings of 7,19.5, and banana, then you might have problems.
To Be Honest JPL
#2174 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.93] on 2004/07/08 13:28:45
I'm absolutely amazed that you can map at all with the grid set to 4 constantly. Once you get used to using the various grid sizes effectively, you should see massive improvements in your mapping techniques.
Well
#2175 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/07/08 14:55:58
i just keep grid size set to 128, works perfectly for me anyway
Grid
#2176 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/07/08 16:09:38
I am always constantly changing my grid settings depending on the what kind of brushes I am building (higher grid for laying down basic geometry, lower grid for adding details) and also depending on the zoom level in my 2D views (it doesn´t make much sense to use low grid when you have half of the map in your 2D view.
Changing Grid
#2177 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/07/08 17:09:05
I default to a size 16 grid, but yeah I'm always changing it. It's easy to forget that you've changed it sometimes, and you start to make a new brush you think is 128, but instead comes out to 64! You just have to pay attention to what you're doing and not be lost in space like I usually am =(
.
#2178 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/08 17:13:20
hm... i like keeping grid to 16 when i'm working on major brushwork, but if i'm doing lots of details or working with strange shaped brushes, i like to turn the grid all the way down to 1 to get as much control as i can over the vertices. it also makes working with vertices easier in gtkr for me.
Starbuck:
#2179 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/08 17:53:38
that explains a lot :)
More Pro Tips
#2180 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/07/08 18:11:40
also metl, i've noticed that many of your maps are very small in scale.... if you're in doubt whether your map is big enough, I find it's good practise to select the entire geometry and drag in the x,y and z direction. Better safe than sorry I say!
I Ment Something Else...
#2181 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/08 20:01:31
while trying to clip the textures on the brushes, I was conquered by the fact that in small polyhedrons one can align textures quit easily, but in big polyhedrons it screwed the last bit of patience out of me.
So my question was not the gridsetting of the working table of polyhedrons, but the one in the looking screen for textures.
By doing this for a few houres with less results, I was reminded of the commentary of texture misalignments in maps. And now I expierenced how hard it is to do it right!
So I wanted to shout out if anyone ever would have commands about texture misaleignment in maps, he had to try to clip a texture of a big small brush, and maybe I wouldn´t be so dissapointed after all that ungratefull work...
but than it would be my loss of patience and the wrong attitude, so my question once again
it seems the texture clip setting of the choosing texture view window doesn´t seem to be affected by the brush grid setting?
sorry for my pronounced way of explaining.
I'll Join Shrek As Donkey
#2182 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/08 21:51:42
because it seems the texture clip setting of the choosing texture view window is affected by the brush grid setting.
Kinn
#2183 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/09 02:33:40
As I said, I'm a beginner compared to many "pro" mappers here... And regarding my poor experience, I don't see cleraly why changing grid settings during mapping will improve my work... Anyway, sure you have good reasons.. but today I'm not able to understand it...
Sure for the geek test you will have a big score ;-)))
http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html
Q1 Tools Update
#2184 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.184] on 2004/07/09 05:34:18
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Minor improvements and bug fixes in several tools and engine. Please see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
18.73767% - Geek
#2185 posted by Kinn [81.7.53.115] on 2004/07/09 06:11:15
Sounds about right.
JPLambert: To understand the benefits of the grid - try sketching out large architectural features using high-ish grid settings, to get an idea of your level's layout. Once you've got the positioning of the main landmarks down, you can then go in at lower grid settings and start building the real brush work. I like to use big chunky brushes as 'placeholders' for stuff that I will go back and build properly later. The size of textures should also give you a clue as to what scale of brushwork you should be building, and thus what grid size is the most appropriate.
Kinn
#2186 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/09 08:24:42
15.58% geek for me... you are "geeker" than me ;P...
Anyway, I now understand why you change your grid settings during your mapping work... I do not build my map with this methodology today: I build it zone by zone, and as properly as possible from the first time... (poly placement, texture alignement, etc..etc..) so I just think it's a question of methodology for each mapper... and each mapper have its own one... Well, thanks for these explanations...
11.4% Geekish Tendencies
#2187 posted by . [68.251.201.231] on 2004/07/09 09:19:56
And back to our regular programming.
Phait...
#2188 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/09 09:51:21
... is cheater... for sure ;D
Grid
#2189 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/07/09 11:20:54
For me, changing the grid setting while mapping is like changing which foot my weight is on while walking.
Also:
grid settings of 7,19.5, and banana
Most of kdmw was built on a grid setting of banana.
You can tell, can't you? :(
.
#2190 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/09 14:02:06
I Own... multi-sided dice
i'd like to see a one sided die...
13.4 ... O_o
Necros
#2191 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.188] on 2004/07/09 19:32:02
Just make a moebius strip and mark a 1 on it. Throw it around to your heart's content.
#2192 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.28] on 2004/07/09 21:33:26
19.92
Round it off at 20.0 percent for taking an on-line test.
16.765...
#2193 posted by distrans [211.28.168.152] on 2004/07/10 02:14:12
...to be expecred, I guess.
Though the board seems to have a lowish geek factor. Nobody over 20 yet.
.
#2194 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/10 02:57:05
the thing is there is a lot of stuff to know on there. half the questions contained things i had never even heard of. honestly, i like to see someone get over 75% questions right.
25.44379% - Total Geek
#2195 posted by inertia [24.164.65.166] on 2004/07/10 04:08:50
must be all the linux rapistness
Wad Do I Wrong
#2196 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/10 11:40:25
Although I searched in the manual of Quark64 for the facility of transporting new textures in the program, I just can't get it right.
Everytime I open a map with my own textures, the new 3D texture screen give me a lot -can't find texture..-
As A
#2197 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/10 12:06:00
17.357% geek
MadFox
#2198 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.176] on 2004/07/10 14:11:53
You've got mail.
Holy Shit
#2199 posted by pjw [66.191.126.135] on 2004/07/10 14:35:08
~35.7%
Does that mean I win or lose?
If You Take The Test
#2200 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/07/10 14:53:27
you automatically lose
Pjw
#2201 posted by Kinn [81.7.53.182] on 2004/07/10 15:02:43
But you're a hotshot Quake IV mapper - so I guess it's a win.
"hotshot"?
#2202 posted by pjw [66.191.126.135] on 2004/07/10 15:59:39
Bleh. There are a shitload of people in the mapping community who are just as talented as I am (or more).
A fair part of getting that gig was previous experience, persistance, and simply being in the right place at the right time.
Granted, my absolutely gigantic genitalia might have had something to do with it.
Hung
#2203 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.166] on 2004/07/10 16:33:32
Granted, my absolutely gigantic genitalia might have had something to do with it.
Cool. Any chance of working that into some sort of Quake IV easter egg?
He He He
#2204 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.121] on 2004/07/10 17:17:27
Put a Quake IV version of RPG's Penile Devestation in there as a secret level.
I'm just glad that there are those who scored higher than me, but then again, I am more freak than geek.
...
#2205 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/10 18:52:30
this is not really mapness, but more of a technical question on quake. so it's more a question for engine coder dudes (metl, aguire...)
specifically, how does quake handle sound playing?
channels: how do channels work? i know basically that you can only play one sound on a channel, but there are only 8 channels available in quake, and i've heard more than 8 sounds at once coming from different entities (like maybe 10 different monsters awakening and all playing their sight sounds)
but a single monster playing sounds on the same channel will cut off the previous ones (an ogre playing it's sight sound will cut off with the pain sound if shot)
so exactly how does sound playing work?
Another Q1 Sound Question
#2206 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.166] on 2004/07/10 19:18:49
I've always wondered what the exact correspondence is between the attenuation value and the "radius" of the sound. If I knew these values I guess I could place ambient sounds in the most optimised positions possible; ie maximising sound coverage of an area whilst minimising sound overlap.
.
#2207 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/10 20:18:38
there are different attenuations for different emissions. regular sounds like monsters and guns are attenuation 1, whereas ambients are 3. obviously, this is some type of multiplier that the engines uses to calculate the volume from distance value. i find ambients tend to be heard about 512 units in diameter with origin as center... can't verify this however.
Vertical Up Or Down Movement
#2208 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/12 04:06:24
Related to RPGDM1 last DM map, I would like to have some information about Vertical up or down movement.... I tried to extract RPG's map with my editor in order to understand how you built the ladder... but I didn't find what I was looking for very clearly (perhaps I didn't look in the right direction...)... I mean, how do you allow the player to walk verticaly up in front of the ladder ??
Thanks
Q1 "ladders"
#2209 posted by Kinn [81.7.62.15] on 2004/07/12 04:49:17
Are just very steep staircases made of clip brushes. Nothing more, nothing less.
Kinn
#2210 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/12 04:59:56
OK !! It explains why I didn't find the stuff: all staircases were not fully translated into polygons after conversion (it appears some "hullxxx" in the .map file) and thus they were not clearly visible in the editor.. Thank you very much... It was another stupid question from the beginner I am... ;P....
JPL
#2211 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.118] on 2004/07/12 05:49:50
RPG kindly released the source map for RPGDM1 along with the bsp, so you can load that into the editor instead.
AguirRe
#2212 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/12 06:08:38
Thanks, I'll take a look with a lot of care this evening...
Bye...
Clipnodes
#2213 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.252] on 2004/07/12 11:43:38
ok, my new map is way over max. clipnodes (about 46K). Covering detailed areas in clip brushes should reduce this, right? Also, say a clip brush covers a "broken" floor (like the floor at the very start of Bastion) I've noticed that the floor is still sort of sticky: i.e. it's flat, but the friction seems very stiff. Is the clip brush still reducing clipnodes if it's 'flush' with the unbroken parts of the floor, or does it have to be raised slightly off the entire floor surface?
Heh, 46k
#2214 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.162] on 2004/07/12 13:30:02
I guess you've already checked my ToolTips for this issue. Clipnodes only add up in hulls 1/2 (the clipping hulls), so covering with clipbrushes help.
AFAIK clipbrushes melt together with other brushes normally, so you shouldn't need to raise the level (at least I've never seen such a requirement).
I'd absolutely recommend that you check out the map in hulls 1/2 using the -hull # option, to see if there are any major enclosed volumes in those hulls that need filling (or open to the void).
Noclip outside to see if such orphaned volumes exist, they can add quite a few clipnodes to the total. It's not enough to seal hull 0.
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see if I can spot something.
JPL
#2215 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/12 14:44:03
Sorry for any delays in my responses--I've been gone a few days.
As Kinn said, the "ladder" effect is created by making a very steep staircase using the clip texture. I used 16 units high, 112 units wide, and 1 unit deep. And as aguiRe said, the .map source is released, so you should be able to get a good look at it in your editor. Unfortunately, as aguiRe mentioned to me in an e-mail, there seem to be some floating point errors, but that isn't always a problem, especially if you don't compile it.
RPG
#2216 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.233] on 2004/07/12 16:39:12
JPLambert uses QuArK so he should be fine with float maps. QuArK can even read the original Q3 format as well, so there are several options.
The ones most likely to have problems are those that use the BSP editor (WC seems actually to be fine with floats too).
My compilers are OK too since they handle floats, even the technical notation in your converted Q1 map (otherwise you wouldn't be able to build it).
AguirRe
#2217 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.145] on 2004/07/12 16:59:25
With your latest compile tools, my map builds ok (with no leaks), and it can be loaded in custom engines that can tolerate it. I'll give it a good going over with clip brushes first; but if it's still giving me problems I'll hand it over to you. :)
Kinn
#2218 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/07/12 17:17:58
How many marksurfaces does your map contain? As far as I can see there are usually more marksurfaces than clipnodes.
I found that map crashes in almost 100% cases when it has >35000 marksurfaces. That goes to vanilla glquake or winquake.
But I may be wrong.
Pulsar
#2219 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.145] on 2004/07/12 17:35:47
46688 clipnodes
28732 marksurfaces
unusual? btw, what are marksurfaces exactly?
I Don't Know
#2220 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/07/12 17:42:12
exactly what they are, but AFAIK they are bad ;)
My map has 29k clipnodes and 34k marksurfaces.
Marksurfaces grow faster than clipnodes for me, but that's the experience only from one my map.
There Is A Difference
#2221 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.200] on 2004/07/12 17:43:48
in how the exceeded limits affect the engines. The excessive marksurfaces (>32k) cause strange behaviour in most engines due to a coding bug, the limit should actually be 64k.
Clipnodes appear to be related to nodes which by specification cannot be >32k, since they'll otherwise be interpreted as leafs. If they are, the engine won't be able to tell how the bsp tree looks like and anything could happen.
However, I've never seen any engine actually crash due to excessive clipnodes.
My Map
#2222 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.145] on 2004/07/12 17:50:34
uses a staggering amount of triangle brushes; i guess that's what is causing the clipnodes to skyrocket
After Some Experiments
#2223 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.200] on 2004/07/12 17:52:28
earlier with PuLSaR's map, I found out that marksurfaces are affected by both world and entity brushes but they're only affected by the visible hull (0). Adding clipbrushes won't reduce them.
AFAIK marksurfaces are somehow related to surfaces (i.e. visible planes) in the map.
Heh
#2224 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/07/12 17:55:02
Kinn, your prevous post has a cool #2222
My Experiments
#2225 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/07/12 17:59:07
show that the map with ecsessive amount of marksurfaces becomes very sensitive to adding thin detail brushes and curve constructions.
Well,
#2226 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/12 17:59:27
that spikey map i was working on before was crashing most quakes with about 37000 clipnodes.
Well
#2227 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/07/12 18:01:08
large maps cause large problems...
JPL...
#2228 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2004/07/13 21:02:45
...this http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/d... might be of assistance
Misfits
#2229 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/13 22:30:05
After understanding "clip textures", and doing so, I found myself stranded with the same thing for animated ones. Sometimes they appear good in Quark, but after compiling not.
Animated Textures
#2230 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/07/13 22:56:14
Some BSP compilers don't automatically include all of the frames for animated textures in the BSP (wQBSP is one of the culprits, if I remember correctly). To get around this, you can use another compiler, or you can manually apply all of the texture frames in the animation into the bsp (by applying those textures to hidden faces somewhere in the level, eg on the back of walls which you will never see).
Of course, that may not be your problem, MadFox, can you give us more information?
Never Saw Tex Misaleignments, Untill....
#2231 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/14 12:28:50
After finishing the Quatrotski map with texture clipping, I noticed the lava brushes didn't compare.
So I tried to match them in Quark6.3
After doing so, and compiling, they still went separate.
Madfox
#2232 posted by inertia [24.164.65.166] on 2004/07/14 14:54:35
why are you using quark?
Why
#2233 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/14 17:52:39
do I play Quake?
Distrans
#2234 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/07/15 02:37:41
...errr.. there is aonly a pub banner here... or there is a hidden "subliminal" message ???
Need Help Making A Monster Trap.
#2235 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/07/16 02:30:37
I want to make it so that when you kill some particular monster, two more appear via teleport. I know that it involves the trigger_multible, but i forget how.
Kell
#2236 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.104] on 2004/07/16 03:10:38
Are you making an uber-terrain map if I recall? If you get a minute, what sort of clipnodes/marksurfaces are you getting on that?
Dakza
#2237 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.104] on 2004/07/16 03:18:51
Start your teleported monsters off in a hidden box outside your main level. Make them stand inside trigger_teleports, but give the triggers targetnames, that way they won't teleport until triggered. Set up your info_teleport destinations where you want your monsters to appear. Have another monster target the trigger_teleports - when you kill him, the others should teleport in. You might also want to add a delay to that.
JPL...
#2238 posted by distrans [211.28.141.167] on 2004/07/17 01:38:39
...strange, it sends me to the fat controller's Q1 ladder tutorial.
*shrug*
Kinn
#2239 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/07/17 16:50:56
Are you making an uber-terrain map if I recall? If you get a minute, what sort of clipnodes/marksurfaces are you getting on that?
from my qbsp.log:
---- WriteBSPFile ----
8259 planes 165180
13898 vertexes 166776
6414 nodes 153936
292 texinfo 11680
11280 faces 225600
25868 clipnodes 206944
4035 leafs 112980
13603 marksurfaces 27206
50568 surfedges 202272
25692 edges 102768
43 textures 783216
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 30840
I just c'n'p, 'cause I honestly don't know what it all means :P
Thanks Kell
#2240 posted by Kinn [81.7.57.143] on 2004/07/17 17:00:26
With my map I get:
---- WriteBSPFile ----
15103 planes 302060
26567 vertexes 318804
13760 nodes 330240
847 texinfo 33880
22945 faces 458900
44954 clipnodes 359632
5951 leafs 166628
28612 marksurfaces 57224
101267 surfedges 405068
50691 edges 202764
54 textures 1130160
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 30754
Already, I can see the similarity with the high clipnodes/marksurfaces ratio, which is I believe a result of loads of triangle brushes. I'm currently covering as much as I can with clip brushes, which is having a dramatic effect with reducing clipnodes, although I have a long way to go before they drop below the magic 32,000.
Kinn,
#2241 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.196] on 2004/07/17 18:08:10
If you are using Dark Places anyway, maybe you should consider the Quake 3 BSP format. You are using Q3 textures a 1 to 1 ratio would look better too.
PS. I still fear the Vonder!
The Biggest Drawback Would Be
#2242 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.196] on 2004/07/17 18:09:59
you would not be able to use Aquire's tools.
I Don't Think That Would Be Much Of A Loss
#2243 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/07/17 18:17:02
with q3map2 and all of it's bazillion features or whatever
HeadThump
#2244 posted by Kinn [81.7.57.143] on 2004/07/17 18:18:31
I haven't researched the idea of Q3 bsp in Q1 yet. Can monsters still navigate the same? i.e. are the clipping hulls the same?
As for Q3 textures, well actually they are the same scale because I resize them 50% before I do the palette conversion.
And yes, having to use totally different compile tools would be a headache as well (not to mention having to switch to GTK).
Kinn
#2245 posted by Kell [212.159.25.186] on 2004/07/18 10:51:34
Those stats are after I replace the valley floors of my terrain with large flat brushes, which reduced the clinodes cosiderably.
Same Here
#2246 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.91] on 2004/07/18 11:04:20
Another thing I need to do though is isolate patches of terrain that combine to form convex shapes, and replace those with single brushes. That should reduce a lot of overhead if I can find lots of instances of that.
Good Luck
#2247 posted by Kell [212.159.25.186] on 2004/07/18 11:06:13
you're going to need it ;P
Hehe
#2248 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.91] on 2004/07/18 11:24:05
yeah - although I reckon if I go really crazy with the clip brushes, I can probably get the clipnodes under the limit.
Would There Be
#2249 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.215] on 2004/07/18 12:04:56
a general interest in me publishing a high-capacity WinQuake 1.20 variant similar to GLQuake 1.20?
AguirRe
#2250 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.50] on 2004/07/18 13:04:50
That would be cool. Winquake has many useful features lacking in GL, r_drawflat for instance.
Btw, something I've been meaning to ask you; I've been using -hull # in your bsp tool recently, and I've noticed that clip brushes are still invisible - is that intended?
FitzQuake Has R_drawflat
#2251 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/18 13:14:55
.
Yes It Does...
#2252 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/07/18 13:19:02
but also standard limitations on clipnodes etc.
Kinn
#2253 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.76] on 2004/07/18 13:37:06
I previously have had no problems in my test maps with Q1 monsters in Q3 bsp's. Of course the hull construction has to be different to accomadate the crouching mode.
I had planned to send you one of my test maps, but when I tested it in Dark Places the bugger crashed! I have been tweeking the Dark Places code for my own sordid purposes, so that may be the culprit and then again, it could be a corrupted .bsp
I suggest building a small DM map with a good deal of connectivity and then running Reaperbots in the map. If the reapers can navigate in it then surely any monster set up you may have in mind would definitely work.
I'll get back to you later in the day.
HeadThump
#2254 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.50] on 2004/07/18 13:44:27
Sounds cool. I'd like to hear from any Q3 gurus, how do the hulls work in Q3 bsp? Logic would suggest that there only needs to be two hulls - a player hull and a crouch hull. Either way, they must be different to the Q1 hulls. So how does DarkPlaces handle the monster clipping?
Aguire,
#2255 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/07/18 14:38:28
if you could put in the r_drawflat on your glquake engine, that'd be nice. ;)
WinQuake 1.20
#2256 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.224] on 2004/07/18 15:10:36
OK, I'll see what I can do. I have already a version where most of the improvements from my GLQuake seem to work, but there are a few weird things I'll have to investigate further. WinQuake also have the r_draworder cvar that's useful for checking visibility.
Kinn: Yes, clipbrushes are always removed entirely from hull 0. I actually haven't thought of if this is correct or not when using the hull # option.
Necros: I don't know how much work that is atm, maybe later.
Kinn
#2257 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.254] on 2004/07/18 15:35:45
The bsp was corrupt. For shame! I am compiling a new version of it at this time. Currently it is giving Q3map2 a run for its money. I made extreme rez textures (each is at least 4 megs in size) for it with the idea of compiling the light maps and then replacing the textures with lower rez ones later.
As it stands it would actually be a decent map for Quake 3 Tourney, well after the textures are replaced, and a sky box is added . . .
#2258 posted by Kinn [81.7.61.220] on 2004/07/18 16:39:56
AguirRe, would it be difficult to make clipbrushes visible in -hull# builds? That would strike me as quite a useful option, as it would give a true visual indication of the clipping hull.
HeadThump, 4 meg textures? o_O. I hadn't thought of the idea of using hi-res textures to generate lightmaps, then replacing the textures. Although I don't think i'll be going down that road.
Visible Clipbrushes
#2259 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.113] on 2004/07/18 17:24:12
It sounds like a good idea and it also appears easy to implement. But after looking at a typical DM map where large parts of the walls, floors etc are covered with the clip texture, I'm not so sure it's such a good idea.
Maybe this sounds awkward, but you can get a similar effect by just replacing "clip" with e.g. "clap" in a temporary copy of the map file and build with the hull # option.
You'll then either see the "clap" texture (if there is one) or the checkerboard pattern instead of the clipbrushes.
Have you tried this?
The search/replace operation can be automated using a standard sed (stream edit) utility if it needs to be repeated.
Tested With Reapers
#2260 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.172] on 2004/07/18 18:38:31
They played like manly men. No problems.
A few notes about the Dark Places Q3 bsp implementation that is even different from its Q1 protocol. Ambient lights are stripped out and only sourced lights are used.
Models for the sourced lights are stripped out too. Its the biggest bitch I have with DP. You have to custom cache them in your mod like you did with that huge flame in Bastion (I know this works in Bastion, I've done a little, uhm, experimenting with it on the side).
You can convert the flames to Spr32 format and you'll get some sweet high high rez particle effects with them. Also, you can use glow or luma textures on surface lights. You wont even miss the old ambient light entity everywhere.
I'll convert everything to low rez so I can ship it to you. Don't expect much from those textures. They are just place holder solids.
Button Newbie Question
#2261 posted by fufu [67.40.107.171] on 2004/07/19 06:36:45
how do i make 2 buttons to open one door? been trying to figure it out by myself for a while, but no luck. :(
this is for q1, me uses worldcraft
#2262 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.106] on 2004/07/19 06:55:48
AguirRe, that sounds reasonable, I hadn't thought of doing a temporary texture replacement.
HeadThump, email received, but Outlook Express detects it as a virus for some f'kin stupid reason, so I can't view it.
Fufu
#2263 posted by DaZ [80.189.61.74] on 2004/07/19 08:50:46
give your "func_door" a targetname of "xxx" and then create a "trigger_counter" with a targetname of "yyy". Set the count of the "trigger_counter" to 2 and give it a target of "xxx" (same as the targetname of the "func_door"). Then give both buttons a target of "yyy" (same as the targetname of the "trigger_counter") and your done.
OutLook Express, Eh.
#2264 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.173] on 2004/07/19 11:31:53
Of all the programs to complain about viruses. I checked that zip package with Avast antivirus before sending it out. I'm pretty carefull about that sort of thing.
But I'll just upload it to the geocities site when I get back in this afternoon.
HeadThump
#2265 posted by Kinn [81.7.63.154] on 2004/07/19 13:23:27
Cheers, that would be cool.
Kinn:
#2266 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/19 14:38:57
Instead of clipping hulls like quake and half-life use, quake 2 and quake 3 store the original brushes from the map file and use those for collision. This is why monsters in quake 2 can be all different sizes.
How this works is, clipping hulls are basically bsps built out of pre-expanded brushes. Since they are pre-expanded, they are built for specific entity sizes. But in quake2 and 3, the brushes are expanded on the fly, which means they can be expanded differently for each entity size they encounter.
Daz
#2267 posted by fufu [67.40.107.171] on 2004/07/19 17:35:44
thanks man. will go try that now. :)
Thanks Metlslime
#2268 posted by Kinn [81.7.57.113] on 2004/07/19 17:37:40
That sounds very interesting. Q3 bsp is definately an option I will look into, although not for my current map; perhaps the one after that.
And More Newbie-ism
#2269 posted by fufu [67.40.107.171] on 2004/07/19 19:13:58
ok. it worked. but i cant get the door to stay closed! i gave it a 0 delay but it keeps closing. it works with a regular door but with this one it doesnt seem to work. :(
Fufu
#2270 posted by Fat Controller [130.195.196.201] on 2004/07/19 21:39:41
It's the [q]wait[/i] field that determines the wait before closing. Set it to [q]-1[/q] if you don't want it to close.
#2271 posted by fufu [67.40.107.171] on 2004/07/19 22:10:23
beautiful!! thanks guys, you been really helpful. :)
No Problem
#2272 posted by DaZ [80.189.46.89] on 2004/07/19 22:27:17
what kind of a map are you working on? Any info or screenshots anywhere?
#2273 posted by fufu [67.40.107.171] on 2004/07/19 23:41:15
actually, i havent started anything yet. just trying out stuff and seeing what i can do before i get my hands into something serious.
Kinn
#2274 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.212] on 2004/07/20 01:26:30
'That sounds very interesting. Q3 bsp is definately an option I will look into, although not for my current map; perhaps the one after that.'
I share your sentiments. My current out put targets FitzQuake given high rez (non-palated) textures and good light sampling looks fantastic in it. Also, most lower end machines can handle it without a performance hit (though I'm less certain about those first generation Voodoo cards).
By the time I'm finished with it, I'll be targeting Doom 3 anyway. So the grand Dark Places mod I have had in mind for some time will likely never come to light.
HeadThump
#2275 posted by Kinn [81.7.59.65] on 2004/07/20 07:22:54
Yes, Doom3 looks like a really attractive option for me too. So far I've missed the boat with all the other id games, so with D3 I might get a chance to start mapping at the beginning with everyone else. Although I'd be making Evil Gothic Death Castles (tm) - I'm not sure I really dig the idea of making endless crate-tastic base levels.
I downloaded your dptest level, but when I load it in DarkPlaces, the whole level is pitch black (r_fullbright 1 does nothing) Also, I can see all the ammo/health boxes in the level at once, dotted around in space like some wierd ammo box constellation. What version of DP are you using?
I Ran It Using The Resized Textures
#2276 posted by HeadThump [65.140.54.171] on 2004/07/20 10:29:45
and the lighting doesn't show up. It must have something to do with my texture/lightmap experiments. Rename the texture file Venice so DP doesn't read it in and the lighting will show up.
I use the beta available on Inside3d.com but modified with my own code (mostly to do with entity behavoir and interpolation so it should not effect the light display, in theory).
HeadThump
#2277 posted by Kinn [81.7.58.84] on 2004/07/20 12:28:57
groovy. mail sent :)
Clipper Tool Uses Caulk
#2278 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/07/21 16:02:11
In what scenerio would it be useful to tic "Clipper tool uses caulk"?
Rpg
#2279 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/07/21 17:39:07
When you build things that are entirely detail brushes, and you have most of the sides caulked already. The idea is that you want any new face to also be caulked until you tell radiant otherwise.
Maybe not so useful the way q3 tools handle detail, but very useful the way MoH tools handle detail.
Q1 Tools Update
#2280 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.20] on 2004/07/23 06:12:50
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main feature is new/updated Win/GLQuake engines especially made for mappers. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Q1 Tools Update
#2281 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.20] on 2004/07/23 06:15:23
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main feature is new/updated Win/GLQuake engines especially made for mappers. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Praxinoscoop
#2282 posted by MadFox [82.73.134.42] on 2004/07/25 12:06:50
I was trying to build a praxinoscoop in Quake1.
I used the Hipnotic Mission pack for it.
After trying, I realized the func_rotate_object can't make enough speed, to melt the pictures together.
Is there an option for making it turn faster?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Praxi...
After
#2283 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.29] on 2004/07/25 12:08:48
a small change in the engines, I'm now finally able to play sm20_amrik, ne_os1 and others the way they were intended to.
One-Hundred-And-Eighty-Two shamblers to go ...
No Patch/Bevel Love
#2284 posted by biffton [24.158.204.102] on 2004/08/04 11:46:09
Gah, got a prob in doomedit (although I'm sure its a common thing, just dunno what to do) -- got a patch and a bevel set for it, but the bevel doesnt line up with the patch =( Its like at a lower scale or something, even though it meeta right at the end of the patch its supposed to be hitched on.
Anyone got an tip?
More Clipnodes
#2285 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.157] on 2004/08/04 17:26:36
(Quake1) Do bmodels add to the number of clipnodes in a map?
I'm Not Sure
#2286 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.224] on 2004/08/04 17:49:02
but I think they do since they appear in the clipping hulls 1/2 where the clipnodes originate from.
One easy way to check in your map would be to add the qbsp -noents option which will remove all entities except world and players and see if the # clipnodes change.
Thanks
#2287 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.157] on 2004/08/04 17:56:35
I'll try that :)
Bmodels
#2288 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/05 11:06:34
...add clipnodes ( unless they're func_illusionarys, for obvious reasons ). I know this because I tried to make my terrain into one big func_wall an the clipnode count went orbital, preventing the map from loading.
Kell
#2289 posted by Kinn [217.140.37.146] on 2004/08/05 16:39:56
Yep, I've just discovered that.
The good news is, my clipnodes are almost below the threshold now, after spending weeks doing nothing but optimising the brushwork and smearing everywhere with clip brushes.
Nearly there!
#2290 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/08/05 20:21:34
...and smearing everywhere with clip brushes
Hehe, just struck me as funny.
Kell
#2291 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.33] on 2004/08/06 07:48:06
Did you get my last two emails?
Aguire
#2292 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/06 11:04:57
Yes indeed. It just takes me time to reply, cos I have to go home and extract stuff and walk back to the 'netcafe then remember I need to visit an ATM and...you get the idea :P
Mail imminent, btw.
Compiling Help Plz
#2293 posted by h20ryder [64.80.243.230] on 2004/08/11 11:00:17
I was looking for a GTK q1 map compiler
that dosen't use java. I thought i saw a
version which didn't require java.
Any help.
thanks in advance.
GTK
#2294 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.192] on 2004/08/11 11:02:49
I believe GTK 1.5 supports q1 "out of the box".
Ummmmm.....
#2295 posted by h20ryder [64.80.243.230] on 2004/08/11 11:07:40
GTK 1.5?
I only see 1.4.
GTK
#2296 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.192] on 2004/08/11 11:11:15
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/rad...
much has changed since 1.4 though...
GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
#2297 posted by h20ryder [64.80.243.230] on 2004/08/11 11:18:33
Life is good....
Now if i can only learn to map like others.
Thanks for the HELP.
-water
...
#2298 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/11 11:26:30
what's the deal with 1.5?
when you say "much has changed" how much is much?
i realise the chief change in 1.5 is that you can load q1 .maps and load q1 .wads, but what about the controls? are they the same?
i still use 1.4 because using batch files and converting the q2 map files into q1 before compile really doesn't bother. how much am i gaining by switching over?
GTK
#2299 posted by Kinn [217.140.36.192] on 2004/08/11 11:32:17
necros - well, hehe, I'm a Hammer user atm, so I don't actually use GTK, but I follow its development because I will be using it to make my next map - which will be a Q3BSP for DarkPlaces. I'm sure there are plenty of 1.5 users here though that will be happy to explain the changes.
h20ryder - you're welcome!
Question For Necros
#2300 posted by h20ryder [64.80.243.230] on 2004/08/11 11:35:36
Your using 1.4?
What do you use for compliling may i ask.
That was my original question..
Thanks.
I'm going to try 1.5 anyway.
.
#2301 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/11 12:01:02
well, i map as normal in 1.4, saving the map file as a q3 map.
since the file format difference between q3 and q2 is practically zero, i use sleepwalkR's mapconv utility to convert the .map into a q1 map file.
then i use aguire's compile tools ( http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ ) as i normally would on a q1 map.
all of this is up in a bunch of different batch files, so i just type "quick map" and it does all the stuff to map.map :)
Monsters
#2302 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/11 15:42:08
sorry for the double post.
i've got a map with 32unit thick bars every 32 units, so there are gaps in between these bars of 32 units. on the floor.
monsters won't cross over these gaps when running/walking. even if there is a clip brush which overlaps these bars and gaps.
what gives? i thought the clip brush basically added the collision data to hull1 and hull2... so why do the monsters still treat the area as if there were gaps in them?
Necros
#2303 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.139] on 2004/08/11 15:51:00
Yes! I've been meaning to ask this very same question - I noticed it in Bastion, and other maps and it has always bothered me.
A Guess
#2304 posted by Kinn [81.7.55.139] on 2004/08/11 15:54:43
it must be something to do with tracelines in the movetogoal code only using hull0 or something.
Answer:
#2305 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/08/11 20:57:28
Part of the code that monsters use to do pathfinding uses hull0, i think.
D3
#2306 posted by Gib [82.209.84.191] on 2004/08/12 01:12:51
Could anyone point me to some basic tutorials on D3 mapping preferably non video ones as my poor 56kb wouldn't like it.
Actually
#2307 posted by Gib [82.209.84.191] on 2004/08/12 01:29:43
Could someone tell me how to open the texture window with actual textures in.
3rd Post :(
#2308 posted by Gib [82.209.84.191] on 2004/08/12 01:32:21
Scrap that, got it all working, yes I suck.
Gib,
#2309 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.129] on 2004/08/12 01:38:36
I've seen some really good tutorials on map scripting (like how to get custom machines to animate properly) at doom3world.org.
Also, http://www.splashdamage.com/index.... , has a forum to help level designers specifically on multiplayer matters.
Gib
#2310 posted by VoreLord [203.51.197.227] on 2004/08/12 02:59:18
Have a dig around this site/forums, you should find some useful stuff.
http://www.doom3world.org/index.ph...
Hmm
#2311 posted by VoreLord [203.51.197.227] on 2004/08/12 03:00:36
sorry, didn't see it already above in HT's post
Anyone Using GTK 1.5 Texture Select Problem
#2312 posted by h20ryder [64.80.243.230] on 2004/08/12 09:47:37
I like being able to load wads into the editor without all the fuss. However in 1.5 i am unable to select a single face to change the textures. Is this a bug? Or is it me.
Thanks in advance.
-water
RE: Anyone Using GTK 1.5 Texture Select Problem
#2313 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/08/12 10:56:01
It is you. http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/rad...
Well...
#2314 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 12:50:20
i hacky way to get monsters to cross gaps in the floor is to make an invisible func_wall entity (like hipnotic's func_togglewall)
that way, you still can't see it, but tracelines *will* impact on it's surface.
the downside is that you can't shoot through the gaps anymore, and gibs will land on them as well...
i suppose it could be possible to make an entity somehow toggle on and off depending on if a rocket was touching it or not, but i doubt that would work well...
Question:
#2315 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 16:41:48
i get allocblock: Full.
now, i know this has to do with lightmaps and sealing the map usuall helps, but this is a little different than normal.
the map is still very small, only 1000 brushes or so. i've had maps that were 3000 or so brushes, unsealed with tons of lights without bothering quake a bit.
this map only has half a dozen or so lights.
also, i noticed the light compile time took much longer than normal. a few versions ago, it was lighting in about 1 sec while on this attempt it took 10 seconds.
aguire: this might be some issue with the actual light utility (or something i did which made an issue with the light utility) so i'm going to be messing around with stuff a bit to see what i can do.
thought you'd like to know or you might know what to do?
Edit:
#2316 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 16:43:17
got a Gl_buildlightmaps error: excessive lightmaps 67 (normal max = 64)
Fuck, We Need Edit! :P
#2317 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 16:44:04
edit2: that error appeared even when i *didn't* light the map at all. how can there be lightmaps when i didn't even have them calculated?
Last One For A While Now...
#2318 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 16:55:15
figured out what was wrong... had one of those huge/infinite brushes, so the face count went crazy. never mind... :P
Allocblock: Full
#2319 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/08/12 16:55:54
Is a brush error. Try to load the .map file in a few different editors to see if some brushes don't load.
If that doesn't work, try to delete any brushes you added recently that have weird manipulations.
Also, look for microscopic OR gigantic brushes in the .map file. (in a text editor)
AguirRe
#2320 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/08/12 17:06:09
Is it possible for you to try to reduce the chance of appearing of HOMs in the next version of your QBSP tools?
Or at least explain me why HOMs appear in places where they haven't been before after I place some more brushes in the room. Or does it have no explanation?
PuLSaR
#2321 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/12 17:22:17
When a HOM is on the surface of a brush and is not affected by VIS, I've found that it will usually fix the problem if I make sure all the edges and vertices meet perfectly where the HOM occurs.
Pulsar
#2322 posted by VoreLord [203.51.231.8] on 2004/08/12 17:25:52
This may (or maynot) help you. Have a read of the "tooltips.txt" on AguirRe's site, scroll down to "Portal Problems"
Direct Link to ToolTips
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
AguirRe's Site
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Necros
#2323 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.102] on 2004/08/12 18:43:26
I assume the first error message was when you were not using any of my engines, the warning you got when using one of my engines, is that right?
The AllocBlock: full error has no relation to whether the map is lit or not or how many lights or brushes there are.
It's only related to having very large visible brush faces (planes) in the map that the GL engines need to allocate space for. Too large and too many of these faces will sooner or later exceed the lightmap array (normal size 64, in my GLQuake it's 512).
Software engines Win/TyrQuake don't have this problem at all.
PuLSaR
#2324 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.102] on 2004/08/12 18:48:26
what RPG and VoreLord said; check out brush alignment in the area and my ToolTips doc (Portal Problems section).
If you still can't fix the HOMs, please send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Yeah....
#2325 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/12 19:16:38
hehe, should have specified. :P
i was using fitzquake when it crashed with the error, so i loaded it up with your [aguire's] quake engine. man, i love that engine. ^_^
.
i didn't know that about the lightmaps. i just assumed if there wasn't any lighting, that the lightmap would be zero (making quake default to fullbright)
also, is it possible to make your vis and light start with different priorities like your qbsp does? it'd be nice to make light and vis always use 'belownormal' priority. :)
Priority
#2326 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.194] on 2004/08/12 19:32:46
I only added that possibility to qbsp since it's normally so fast that you don't have time to manually use Task Manager to change the priority of the process.
I have a small utility that you can use to start any Win32 console program with a specified priority and optionally with a timeout to wait for completion. After the timeout expires, it will kill the child process (useful when it might get stuck).
I'll email you this small utility.
Ok, I Give Up (GTK 1.5)
#2327 posted by VoreLord [203.51.223.79] on 2004/08/12 22:58:52
Could someone please explain to this dimwhitted australian, how I am to get the textures to show up (Quake). I mean, nothing shows up in the texture menu, so I can't load any textures. I can however type the texture name in the surface inspector and have it applied to the face I have selected. but I refuse to beleive that this has to be done all the time. Everything works fine when I load GTK 1.5 for Quake 3, or DooM3, but for Quake, well I can't seem to get it.
Please, anyone, anyone ?
Nevermind
#2328 posted by VoreLord [144.131.205.232] on 2004/08/12 23:57:28
Just in time to, I was about to see how much of a mess a 21" monitor would make after being hit by a high speed mouse.
Wow
#2329 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/08/13 16:11:07
When a HOM is on the surface of a brush and is not affected by VIS, I've found that it will usually fix the problem if I make sure all the edges and vertices meet perfectly where the HOM occurs.
It really helps. I've splitted the brush into two ones so that edges and vertices were exactly where HOM took place and it has gone.
Quake 3 Elevator
#2330 posted by Quake 3 [24.56.212.189] on 2004/08/13 16:34:49
I am looking into making an elevator in quake3 but HOW is it done? i used the func plat and it moves up about 1 block and not any higher....how do i set the height it moves up or just make a simple elevator
???
Necros
#2331 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.76] on 2004/08/13 19:18:38
Is your planetquake email address OK or should I use another? I heard Tyrann had a lot of problems with his.
.
#2332 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/13 19:33:27
i have no idea, but apparently, i didn't get anything. :\ pq mail has never been very reliable...
send it directly to necros -AT- rogers.com, that should be fairly reliable.
Singleplayer Start Help
#2333 posted by h20ryder [172.200.162.37] on 2004/08/13 20:16:34
Evening....
I am having problems getting a few enitys to work in my start map..ie: setskill, etc.
Anyway does anyone have a tut for starting sp mapping, with a list of all the spawnflags and such... i am trying GTK 1.50 nightly...
The spawnflags don't seem to all be there.
I also need to know how to define an episode beginning to end... also is 'print' a valid spawnflag as in q2?
Thanks in advance.
-water
Necros
#2334 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.227] on 2004/08/13 21:13:43
I sent a copy today to that address too but got some weird warning about "delayed email" in return.
Anyway, you can get the file from http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/pri... .
Please let me know when you've got it.
Re: Quake 3 Elevator
#2335 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/13 21:15:21
Rising platform the player can ride to reach higher places. Plats must always be drawn in the raised position, so they will operate and be lighted correctly but they spawn in the lowered position. The plat will stay in the raised position until the player steps off. There are no proper sounds for this entity, only beep noises. It will spawn in the game and work properly but it sounds silly (see Notes).
-------- KEYS --------
speed : determines how fast the plat moves (default 150).
lip : lip remaining at end of move (default 16). Has no effect if "height" is set.
height : if set, this will determine the total amount of vertical travel of the plat.
dmg : damage to inflict on player when he blocks operation of plat (default 4). Plat will reverse direction when blocked.
targetname : if set, the trigger that points to this will raise the plat each time it fires. The plat raises and comes back down a second later if no player is on it.
...
<snip> <snip> <snip>
...
-------- NOTES --------
By default, the total amount of vertical travel of a platform is implicitly determined by the overall vertical size of the brushes of which it's made minus the lip value. But if the "height" key is used, then the total amount of vertical travel of the plat will be exactly that value regardless of the shape and size of the plat and regardless of the value of the "lip" key. Using the "height" key is the best method for any kind of platforms and the only possible one for thin plats which need to travel vertical distances many times their own thickness. Setting the origin key is simply an alternate method to using an origin brush. When using the model2 key, the origin point of the model will correspond to the origin point defined by either the origin brush or the origin coordinate value.
...
<snip> <snip> <snip>
This should help you out. Basically, the func_plat follows a formula to determine how high it moves. X - L = H. X is the overall height of the func_plat entity, L is the "lip" value, and H is the height the func_plat will move when the player steps on it. So if the func_plat is 64 units tall, and the "lip" is set to "8", then it only moves up 56 units. You can override this by setting the "height" key. If "height" is set to "256", then the func_plat should move 256 units up.
Also, you should make sure you set the direction of the func_plat to "up".
Aguire,
#2336 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/13 21:18:28
i got the email.
i couldn't get the thing to work though.
in my batch file i was using priority below vis %1 %2 %3 %4 %5
but it didn't seem to do anything. is it that hard to make priority settings available in vis.exe itself?
Re: Singleplayer Start Help
#2337 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/13 21:32:27
You'll need a Quake1 entities.def for making Q1SP maps. I'm not sure where you can get one online right now.
I'll see if I can get SPoG to start reading this thread, since there are some GTKRadiant 1.5 questions that he would be most suited to answering.
Episodes are pretty much only defined as a looping set of maps. I.E. at the end of each map, have a trigger_changelevel that has a "map" "nextmapname" key/value pair. If you want to have full out episodes like Quake did, then you'll need a start map with func_episodegates blocking off various episode teleporters, and the appropriate spawnflags for each episodegate. Then each map links to the next in the trigger_changelevel, and at the end of each episode you need an item_sigil with one of the spawnflags checked. And the trigger_changelevel in last map of each episode should link back to the start map.
I don't remember a "print" spawnflag for any Q1 entities.
.
#2338 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/13 21:36:55
i wrote a little guide a while ago that should have everything you need to map for q1 with gtkr1.4
since you're using 1.5, you can still download the .def file from there.
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
Direct Link:
#2339 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/08/13 21:41:38
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/... <- q1 defs
Necros
#2340 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.198] on 2004/08/14 05:59:27
What do you mean by "didn't seem to do anything", didn't it run the vis program with its parameters %1 %2 %3 etc at the specified thread priority? Maybe you forgot adding the parameters to the batch file command?
It's not hard to implement, but I see no reason since this utility does the same job without any cost at all.
If you still can't get it to work, please send me the batch file and a description how you call it.
Heretics
#2341 posted by truskoski [67.42.26.11] on 2004/08/14 07:43:23
are there any fgd files for worldcraft 2.0 or maybe hammer that would let me map for heretic2? im so used to worldcraft im too lazy to learn the one that comes with the game, and i have no idea how to make a fdg for worldcraft. :(
Stone That Heretic
#2342 posted by VoreLord [203.51.196.212] on 2004/08/14 08:15:20
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
Yay!
#2343 posted by truskoski [67.42.26.11] on 2004/08/14 08:42:35
i'd kiss you... but i dont know if you like aids. :(
AguiRe
#2344 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/14 12:31:19
Yeah, I got your original mail. Please note that I have very limited net access and I'm a bit snowed under with content, so I tend not to reply instantly to emails.
Light Shader Problem
#2345 posted by Shadowdane [69.140.130.199] on 2004/08/14 12:59:02
thought I would post this here too, can't figure this out. Didn't feel like reformating this post, go to the link below.
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/For...
Kell
#2346 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.250] on 2004/08/14 13:02:41
No problem, I just don't trust Internet email much anymore. To avoid both parties waiting for responses that never come, I'd rather run the risk of being a bit repetitive.
Btw, I've been running a fullvis on the terrain map for about 78 hours now. It has reached 88%, claims that there are 13 hours to go and half an hour ago it even crashed my RVis ...
/me consults the good Dr Watson
#2347 posted by Shadowdane [69.140.130.199] on 2004/08/14 13:05:31
78hrs VIS?! Um what are you mapping for?
Aguire:
#2348 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/08/14 13:36:44
the line in the batch file:
privis.bat:
priority below vis %1 %2 %3 %4 %5
command line:
privis -level 4 map
starts vising the map, but when i check in task manager, vis.exe is assigned the 'normal' priority.
that's what i meant by "does nothing"... any suggestions?
GTKRadiant 1.5 Docs
#2349 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/14 13:40:53
BTW, anyone using GTKRadiant 1.5 may want to check out SmallPileofGibs' docs on the subject:
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/rad...
I've asked him to keep an eye on this thread, so hopefully he'll see when a new question is brought up, and he can let us know when the docs are updated.
Hm...
#2350 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/08/14 13:45:44
every point in the 'transition' section has convinced me not to switch to the newer version.
'select complete tall' was one of the best features of gtkr, because you could size the selector brush to exactly the right size before selecting the other brushes.
Necros
#2351 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/14 13:49:53
Holding shift and dragging LMB will create a selection area in the 2D views. Not exactly the same functionality as Select Complete Tall, Select Partial Tall, Select Inside, and Select Touching, but it's better than none.
Necros
#2352 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.31] on 2004/08/14 15:09:00
Thanks for the clarification. You can't use NT/2K/XP Task Manager for checking the thread priority; it only shows the process priority which is of a higher magnitude than the thread variant.
Changing the process priority is actually pretty dangerous if you make a mistake; setting the priority High or even worse Critical for a process like RVis and you'll most likely have to use the power off button to access your system again (or wait until RVis finishes).
Setting the thread priority like my utility does (or via the qbsp option), is much safer and most of the time gets the job done just as well.
Either you'll have to use another instrument for checking thread priority (e.g. TaskInfo http://www.iarsn.com/index.html ), start another CPU intensive process and confirm that it will now take over the CPU completely or just take my word for it.
Btw, in the upcoming versions of RVis/Light, there'll be a -priority option ...
Kell
#2353 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.31] on 2004/08/14 15:11:50
Just as a good example of Internet email reliability, I just received another copy of your Aug 4th email ...
Shadowdane
#2354 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.31] on 2004/08/14 15:20:24
I'm not mapping, only testing a Q1 map for Kell. 78 hours is not that much; I've a personal record of 350h (2 weeks) on a P4 1.7GHz and Scragbait has run a 550h (3 weeks) session on an even faster machine.
Open maps are slow to fullvis ...
Vis
#2355 posted by Shadowdane [69.140.130.199] on 2004/08/14 15:48:42
lol.. i think thats why I didn't like Q1 mapping, spent longer compiling than mapping. I love me detail brushes, my current Q3 map which consists of about 3000 brushes and is of decent size currently fullvis is 19 seconds. :)
Detail Brushes
#2356 posted by Kinn [81.7.54.221] on 2004/08/14 16:16:30
didn't someone have some sort of experimental bsp compiler with detail brush type support for q1? Or am I imagining things...
Re: Process Priority
#2357 posted by NotoriousRay [216.48.10.50] on 2004/08/14 16:53:08
Yeah, just for kicks when you guys started mentioning this in here, I changed a running vis of sm82 to something ridiculous like high or realtime. Didn't make it go any faster, but rather sent my system to 100% cpu use rendering it unuseable until it finished. Won't be doing that anytime soon.
Kinn
#2358 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.197] on 2004/08/14 17:03:38
See here: http://openquartz.sourceforge.net
Ray
#2359 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.197] on 2004/08/14 17:19:26
Heh, you just had to try it, right?
Task priorites are often a cause of confusion, some even seems to think it's some kind of gas pedal. For best results, always lower the priority of a process, especially if it's hogging the CPU, like RVis or Light.
Raising a priority should only be done for processes that often block on external I/O events, like disk or network. Most of the time it's also only useful to raise it just a little bit.
If you e.g. try running an RVis session in normal priority and at the same time copy a big file over the network, you'll probably notice that the copy process is much slower than usual.
In this case, it would significantly speed up the copy operation if that program/process/thread had a slightly higher priority than normal without the RVis session suffering much of a slowdown.
Yeah
#2360 posted by NotoriousRay [216.48.10.50] on 2004/08/14 17:51:34
For the record, I was pretty sure it would make no difference. Although if there was some internal thread-yielding, that would make more of a difference I'd imagine.
A question I've been considering for a while to you, mister aguire the quake tools master. What is the feasibility of making a networked vis tool? I know tools like netvis have existed for other games (halflife in particular), so I'm wondering if its possible for quake1. I don't know much of the mechanics of how visibility is processed but I've done enough tcp/ip programming that I think I could handle that side of things.
Note: I'm not talking about a cluster of computers sharing processes and memory and stuff, just N number of computers running a client, with one master initiating the process and handling dispatching data to be processed.
Thoughts/comments?
NetVis
#2361 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.37] on 2004/08/14 18:54:24
It's certainly possible (most things are). Vis originally had a threading capability to utilize multiprocessor systems (I think id had dual Sparcs).
IMO, it would've been much more beneficial for most people if they'd concentrated more on the algorithms, memory handling etc. Qbsp had ridiculously many memory leaks and Tyrann has shown that the algorithms could be improved quite a bit, especially in worst case scenarios.
If id had implemented the "meta-leaf" (i.e. clustering small detail leafs into bigger ones) variant of vis, it'd would probably be a lot faster in big maps and most likely much faster than any parallel computing method with a lot less hassle.
Since most people don't have multiprocessor systems or even lots of LAN-connected machines, pretty few would benefit from multithread/netvis solutions. I even doubt that HyperThreading would help much. There are a lot of other factors (heap, disk etc) in the machine that serialize the processing.
In any case, it would add quite a bit of complexity to vis.
I Concur, AguiRe
#2362 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.10] on 2004/08/14 19:08:09
esp. when you take in consideration the speed at which q2map2 can vis, and it does take advantage of the meta-leaf software architecture you mentioned.
Of course, you already know that given you are the Ydnar of Quake I.
Hey, what about pico-model in-map compilation. Now that is some sweet stuff.
I Use Q3map2 Myself
#2363 posted by VoreLord [203.51.235.176] on 2004/08/14 19:13:54
;)
Yeah
#2364 posted by NotoriousRay [216.48.10.50] on 2004/08/14 19:26:05
I don't think it would require as much overhead as you suggest, but its nice to know it may be possible. Again, I know not eveyone would even be able to use it, but I was thinking it would mainly benefit those vis killing maps that go on for days at a time. Did you remove the -threads option from your vis version(s)? That would be a good starting point should I decide to investigate this at some point in time.
Ray
#2365 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.129] on 2004/08/14 19:43:29
Yes, I've removed the -threads option from all tools since AFAIK, it never worked anyway in the Win32 version.
However, I don't recall having deliberately disabled any basic multithreading functionality, except that I'm pretty sure that the progress feedback wouldn't work. Not to mention AutoSave or ...
#2354
#2366 posted by underworldfan [128.195.64.98] on 2004/08/14 19:44:18
I've a personal record of 350h (2 weeks) on a P4 1.7GHz and Scragbait has run a 550h (3 weeks) session on an even faster machine.
now thats committment to the mapping cause =)
can you remember which maps they were?
UWF
#2367 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.129] on 2004/08/14 19:54:37
Heh, it's actually the same map in different versions by Scragbait. He can probably tell you a tale or two about this map ...
It's actually not so very big, but he put a large amount of small detail brushwork into it and since it's rather open, vis runs amok. By turning most of these details into func_walls, the fullvis time will drop dramatically (usually 50-90%).
There are drawbacks with this though, mostly regarding lack of shadows and increased r_speeds. Please see my ToolTips for more info.
Ah
#2368 posted by NotoriousRay [216.48.10.50] on 2004/08/14 20:00:51
Well, I know it would break a few things, and progress reporting still could be done, albeit a little differently. Although it would never be 100% accurate but would be close enough. But possible nonetheless, with a simple protocol between the master and client.
Thanks, Aguire
#2369 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/08/14 20:19:18
for clearing up that little mixup. i hadn't realised there were different levels of priority like that.
i won't bother checking if it works for vis, i'll take your word for it ;)
Necros
#2370 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.175] on 2004/08/14 21:13:57
Just start vis in either normal or below priority and then start another heavy process (e.g. Light) in normal and check with Task Manager how much the 2nd process can get from the CPU.
If you want to really make it confusing, you can also put the different processes in foreground (focus with mouse), background or even both in background and see how the CPU load changes in each case.
There's a lot of code in the OS just dealing with this task scheduling and nearly all OS versions have different behaviour ...
AguirRe
#2371 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.196] on 2004/08/15 05:36:02
re: openquartz compiler - yeah that's the one. IIRC, it never really did catch on.
Q1 Detail
#2372 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/15 15:40:02
Is there a reason it didn't catch on? The benefits of detail in Q1, considering the size of the last few SP releases, are obvious. I'm sure there are issues here of which I am utterly ignorant.
aguiRe: heh, email si teh awfull
78hrs, huh? That's pretty much around where I was expecting I guess. Though crashing your Rvis is a new event :(
Kell,
#2373 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.218] on 2004/08/15 19:43:58
I've used the detail texture shader from rscript recently in a test of converted IKDoom textures (Ikka's textures ripped from the Reqiuem megawad), and the results were less than disirable. I used Tomaz Quake for my test. MrG has said before that RScript was a less than optimal solution (though it works perfectly fine with alpha channels and the like).
IMHO the custom engine whose shader suppot impressed me the most is QFusion which has no problem processing Q3 shaders for all the pretty things like detail, phong and the like.
Detail In Q1
#2374 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/08/15 20:04:11
Works like detail in q2 and DOES NOT function like detail/structure in q3 since that depends on changes made to the .bsp format. If I don't remember it all wrong detail in q2 just aids the vis process a bit by first using all non-detail brushes to split up the world and then the detail last. The purpose of this is to simplify the vis data a bit but it's important to not forget that unlike in q3 detail brushes still affect the vis data and splits up faces.
Oh,
#2375 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.218] on 2004/08/15 20:09:12
a more careful reading of your post would have made it obvious you meant detail brushes. My eyes are blurry from mapping -- apologies
Electric Laser Beam
#2376 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/08/16 04:39:19
Hello,
In post #2055, MadFox gives me an example of "electric laser beam" use: it was the same used to kill Chtom into last level of Q1 first episode. This link seems to be no longer avalaible today...
I would like to use an "electric laser beam" in my new map (to create some electric effects into a power zone), and I would like to have some information about the use of event_lightning entity, or a map example like MadFox gave me there were few months..
Is there somebody who can help me please ??
Thanks...
AguirRe
#2377 posted by Kinn [81.7.54.184] on 2004/08/16 04:41:59
if Q1 detail can be done like in Q2, ie. not requiring any changes to the Q1 bsp format, then would it be possible to implement in your compile tools?
JPL
#2378 posted by Kinn [81.7.54.184] on 2004/08/16 05:06:51
Well, if you're going down that road, you might want to consider using some custom QC - the Scourge of Amagon mission pack has some excellent lightning effects.
JPLambert
#2379 posted by VoreLord [144.131.202.159] on 2004/08/16 05:13:53
I will send you a zip file which may be of help to you.
Kell
#2380 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.58] on 2004/08/16 05:23:47
Rvis now reached 96.6% in 111h with still 12 to go (not very likely) ...
The crash wasn't reproducable, and since AutoSave was active, I just restarted and it appears OK now. My HD sometimes act up and slightly corrupt read/write operations and it can cause these anomalies.
VoreLord
#2381 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/08/16 05:34:01
I've just read your e-mail, and it seems that it is exactly what I was looking for...
Thank you very much...
Kinn
#2382 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.58] on 2004/08/16 05:34:18
I have actually investigated a bit into this issue recently. Unfortunately, it seems to require both qbsp and vis specific support (via a new prt file format) and adds quite a bit complexity to both tools.
Since it can't help any existing maps (you'd have to map explicitly for this format), I've decided against it for now.
Kinn 2
#2383 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.202] on 2004/08/16 06:23:08
Have you received my email reply as of today? All my accounts seems to refuse to send it to you for unknown reasons.
AguirRe
#2384 posted by Kinn [81.7.54.85] on 2004/08/16 08:04:03
I haven't received it - hotmail tends to randomly bounce emails for no reason from time to time.
However, you can now send stuff to my original email address, as I have set up the account on my crappy computer.
Good
#2385 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.50] on 2004/08/16 08:58:49
I've now managed to send [at least] one to each address, let's hope you get one of them.
Btw, I haven't been able to reproduce the abort you mentioned, no matter what I do.
I've uploaded yet a bit newer variant of WQ 1.22 to the same address as before. Please see if you still can reproduce the abort.
Mail Sent
#2386 posted by Kinn [81.7.54.85] on 2004/08/16 09:24:00
I'll have a gander at the new WQ 1.22 :)
Guys
#2387 posted by inertia [69.133.115.101] on 2004/08/17 13:51:43
q1 is dead, as this board proves :\/
Q1 Is Dead?
#2388 posted by VoreLord [144.131.205.109] on 2004/08/18 02:48:14
There isn't even a game called "q1", or "Quake 1" for that matter, There is however, games called "Quake", "Quake II", and "Quake III Arena", (plus mission packs of course".
All of which are still showing signs of life, As this board proves
#2389 posted by truskoski [67.42.26.11] on 2004/08/18 06:23:03
wasnt quake2 a game on its own that had nothing to do with quake1? i remember reading the planetquake fuck and they said something like this. and if its true, i wish they had named it differntly.
hell yes
Kinn
#2390 posted by aguirRe [212.151.13.175] on 2004/08/18 08:54:26
You wrote above "Mail Sent", should I assume that you really meant "Mail Received" and that you haven't yet replied to me?
AguirRe
#2391 posted by Kinn [81.7.56.115] on 2004/08/18 09:38:55
No, i did send an email on the 16th, but i'll resend :)
Re: <blank>
#2392 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/18 10:01:59
wasnt quake2 a game on its own that had nothing to do with quake1? i remember reading the planetquake fuck and they said something like this. and if its true, i wish they had named it differntly.
I seem to recall some id guy saying in a .plan that they originally wanted to name it "Wor", but that may have violated someone's trademark so they went with "Quake II". I couldn't find the original .plan though, so I have no source to back up my assertion.
RPG
#2393 posted by Kell [62.121.31.249] on 2004/08/18 12:23:17
you have no source to back up your ass
Kell
#2394 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.247] on 2004/08/18 15:20:12
Fullvis of terrain map is finally done after almost 161 hours. Your original estimation of one week was pretty accurate. Now we at least have a reference for improvements.
AguiRe
#2395 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/18 15:24:09
Excellent. Thanks :)
How's the framrate now it's vised...? ( dare I ask )
Aguire
#2396 posted by NotoriousRay [216.48.10.50] on 2004/08/18 15:27:46
is there anyway you could add these features to your glquake version?
1- gl_clear defaulting to 1, with same grey void color (or at least ability to change it?)
2- in noclip mode, having flymode movement instead of just walking on the plane you are on when you issue the 'noclip' command.
I only ask because most of these I use in fitzquake to debug/leakhunt maps in development, but as I'm working on sm82 its huge visdata crashes most all other engines, so I have been using your glquake.
I've also always thought it would be cool if there was a command that flew the player through the path of the pointfile in order to better hunt down leaks, etc.
Anyways, just some ideas.
Kell
#2397 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.170] on 2004/08/18 16:21:25
This is an extract from the vis.log:
average leafs visible: 819
max leafs visible: 2198 near (1792 -538 1120)
c_chains: 2193464855
visdatasize: 483 kb compressed from 807 kb
Session time : 160h 44m
Fps depends on the player's system, I didn't have any problems even before vis. What's maybe more interesting is to use the r_draworder cvar of WinQuake to see how far the engine see, especially over rocks. It appears to me that pulling down sky should help in this map.
Ray
#2398 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.170] on 2004/08/18 16:38:42
You can change the value of cvars in your cfg files at startup (or use a key to set god/notarget/gl_clear etc), I can't see any obvious reason to change the default.
Adding r_clearcolor cvar like WinQuake I can look into (if it's reasonably easy to implement). I actually prefer the bright red; I haven't found any better for leak/HOM hunting.
The noclip behaviour is absolutely my preference, I never liked the Q2 variant. Again, I can see if it's easy to add this alternative (like FQ).
Auto-flying through leak trail sounds a bit esoteric ...
Thanks for the suggestions.
Aguire:
#2399 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/08/18 17:21:51
"The noclip behaviour is absolutely my preference, I never liked the Q2 variant."
You like being stuck at the same height when noclipping? Why?
Notray:
#2400 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/08/18 17:22:27
if you use gtkr, you can just load the .pts file as a .lin file in the editor to fix leaks.
Ray
#2401 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.69] on 2004/08/18 18:08:18
If I haven't screwed up the basic CnP job from FQ, r_clearcolor (GL: default 251 = bright red, Win: default 2 = dark grey) and sv_altnoclip (default 0) are now in and seem to be working in both engines.
Jago: Well, for me it's easier to move in noclip like that. If I want to slide up or down at the same time, I just press D/C (swim up/down) as usual.
AguirRe
#2402 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/08/19 02:50:25
average leafs visible: 819
max leafs visible: 2198 near (1792 -538 1120)
c_chains: 2193464855
visdatasize: 483 kb compressed from 807 kb
Session time : 160h 44m
Hello, I have a similar message after a fast vis process for my last map, and it's the first time I see this... Is it a real problem, or simply an information message ??? I'm able to run FitzQuake without any HOM/leak problems, and all seems to work correctly, so what must I do (if there's something to do) ???
Thanks...
The Above Info
#2403 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.186] on 2004/08/19 05:22:58
is just statistics about the vis run. If you get warnings or errors in your vis printout, either show it here or send it to me and I'll take a look at it.
AguirRe
#2404 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/08/19 05:33:35
I've no warnings/error (thanks to the Lord) during any process, and the above informations appeared after a "long" fastvis process... It appeared yesterday night, so I was a little confused seeing these messages...
Well, it's not a real problem in your opinion... anyway, thank you for your help...
Re: 2392
#2405 posted by truskoski [67.42.26.11] on 2004/08/19 21:44:39
wor? hehe. it would have nice it they had used stroggos or something. im still sad about it them using quake2. but then, there is gonna be a quake4! fuck yes!
How Did That Rule Go?
#2406 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2004/08/19 22:23:16
The even numbered Quakes suck?
D3 Mapping
#2407 posted by necros [69.193.41.176] on 2004/08/20 00:52:30
um... this may seem like a stupid question, but how does one map for d3 with gtkradiant, and not the built in gtk/qeradiant version in d3?
Hmmm
#2408 posted by VoreLord [203.51.206.43] on 2004/08/20 02:10:08
Not that I think Quake II sucked, although it would be my least fav Quake, lets hope the "rule" gets broken with #4
Necros
#2409 posted by Shadowdane [69.140.130.199] on 2004/08/20 02:44:23
you can't GTKRadiant doesn't have any support for D3. There is a version in the works with D3 support, and a beta version Ive seen going around but its seriously broke right now and not working using.
I would imagine will probably be 2-3 months until a good working build of GTKR is out with D3 support.
....
#2410 posted by Shadowdane [69.140.130.199] on 2004/08/20 02:44:57
working = worth
meh
Q1 Tools Update
#2411 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.78] on 2004/08/20 06:10:25
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main feature is updated Win/GLQuake engines with very high capacity and many fixes/improvements. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
Re: Even Numbered Quakes Suck
#2412 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/20 09:28:31
Some people would simply say that numbered Quakes suck.
Re: GTKRadiant Doom 3 Support
#2413 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/20 09:32:42
The new version (1.5) has support for Doom 3. There are indeed a few things broken, but that's not the biggest problem users will have. The biggest problem is that the interface has changed substantially, and old users will have trouble adapting.
You can get GTKRadiant 1.5 from http://www.qeradiant.com/
The limited docs are available here: http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/rad...
Yeah... I Know...
#2414 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/20 11:50:52
i've been trying just to map for q1 with the thing (1.5) and it's just not going very well... why the hell did they have to go and change such a good thing? :(
AguirRe
#2415 posted by Kinn [217.43.151.63] on 2004/08/20 14:05:04
My computer situation is fixed now. If you've sent any emails in the last 3 days or so to my V21 address, could you possibly resend to my hotmail address?
Done!
#2416 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.1] on 2004/08/20 14:39:40
..
GTKR 1.5
#2417 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2004/08/21 04:51:36
The biggest problem is that the interface has changed substantially
Yes. It's broken. :(
Kinn
#2418 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.235] on 2004/08/21 12:49:20
Have you still not received anything? I sent copies to both your accounts yesterday.
Old QMap Threads
#2419 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.235] on 2004/08/21 12:52:04
Does anyone have any archived threads from the old QMap? I have the "Mapping Help" thread already, but there were many others.
AguirRe - Mail Sent
#2420 posted by Kinn [217.43.53.211] on 2004/08/21 15:36:33
sorry, V21 is still chuffing me about, but I got it through on the hotmail account.
btw, my new (non-hotmail) addy is: bdwooding -at- btinternet.com
Yeah
#2421 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.4.242] on 2004/08/22 05:13:30
GtkR 1.5.x is unuseable for experienced radiant users. You'd be better off using the editor included with Doom3 for the moment, and wait till
a) proper/full D3 support is ready in GtkR
b) Spog finally bites the bullet and puts the brush manipulation controls back to how they were (c'mon man, you know it was better that way, and 99.8% of Radiant users have told you that... so wtf?)
GtkR 1.5.x
#2422 posted by Jago [81.197.206.67] on 2004/08/22 20:22:03
I´ve been using it for over a month now (for Quake 1 mapping) and I´ve been really happy so far. I switched from WorldCraft 1.6 (having used GTKRadiant 1.2 and 1.4 for some Q3 maps that were never released) and I am one of those who actually *DID LIKE* the changes made to the interface.
Stupid Q3 Question
#2423 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2004/08/22 21:51:25
How do I make the aas file?
Aas
#2424 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2004/08/23 01:56:29
Never mind.
Event_lightning
#2425 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/08/23 02:42:24
Hello,
I'm currently mapping a base-based map, and I would like to use event_lightning item. I had last week 2 helpfull map examples from MadFox and VoreLord (thanks to them) of event_lightning use ... This work this time but... lightning effect is not permanent.. I mean that it occurs only during a half second and then disappear.. I've alreadyt set a wait -1 into func_button and func_door that respectively command and generate the lightning... so what's the problem ?? Is there a wait -1 missing into the event_lightning item, or somthing like this ?? Any good idea is welcomed ..
Thanx
Try
#2426 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.32] on 2004/08/23 07:00:41
opening e1m7 in QuArK and inspect the relationship between the buttons and lightning mechanism. Although that lightning is also just a short time, maybe you can't have a permanent effect? AFAIK, it bogs down engines too.
AguirRe
#2427 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/08/23 07:36:57
Thanks for this advice... I will take a look this evening...
During the game I am able to generate a lightning between two doors (like in e1m7, so i think I build it correctly), but the effect is not permanent, and that's what I would like to have... hhhmmm maybe in Quake C code I can find event_lightning processing and find how to build what I want...
.... I've just took a look at http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak... and it seems that event_lightning time is limited, but nowhere I found its limitation... the more I'm not very good in C programation... Sure someone else will have less problem than me, so is there a noble man to help me, just take a look, and tell me something interseting can be found please ??
Thanx...
Re: GTKR 1.5
#2428 posted by nb [203.109.254.50] on 2004/08/23 08:40:16
I switched from WorldCraft 1.6
Ah, that would explain it. Overly modal interfaces are not among my favourite things. D3R adds a nifty feature - you can obviate the clipper mode entirely by using ctrl+rmb to drop clip points.
JPL
#2429 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/23 09:19:53
I'm sorry to tell you, but I don't think you can have the event_lightning constantly on.
RPG
#2430 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/08/23 09:25:21
Unfortunately, that's what I suspected... And it means that I need to change my map design.... gggrrrrrr....
Thanks for your opinion...
#2431 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/08/23 14:46:54
I used GTKr 1.5 after years of using Q3/GTKr for my Quake3 mapping and WC 1.6 for for Q1 mapping. I've found it's UI to work fine and seriously don't understand what people's problem is with it. Once you get used to it, you'll be just as fast as you were with old style radiant.
For referance, my final few q1 speedmaps were done using GTKr 1.5.
As for it's use in d3... well, it's still pretty limited, and for all it's nice points, d3edit's ability for realtime rendering and all it's other features tied into the engine make it the clear choice atm. Time will tell how well it'll be updated.
...
#2432 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/23 14:59:30
is there a way to stop d3edit from screwing up my desktop's colour/gamma settings then? that is the main reason i don't want to use d3edit because everytime i'm finished with it, and close it, the default gamma setting is set too high, and even if i change it back in display properties, as soon as the screen is switched to full screen (from any game) back to windows mode, the gamma is back up high like before...
i use Doom3.exe +r_fullscreen 0 +vid_restart +wait +wait +wait +wait +editor to get a windowed mode.
JPL
#2433 posted by Fat Controller [222.152.147.215] on 2004/08/23 15:00:33
Try these:
1. Some triggering thing with
"target" "A"
2. trigger_relay with
"targetname" "A"
"target" "B"
3. trigger_relay with
"targetname" "B"
"target" "A"
"delay" "1"
4. event_lightning with
"targetname" "B"
and any other fields required.
What happens is that your button or whatever trips both the lightning (at the start) and starts the two trigger_relays into repeatedly triggering each other. Doing so repeatedly fires the lightning.
Necros
#2434 posted by pushplay [129.128.29.124] on 2004/08/23 15:24:10
NaturalSelection came with a resetgamma.exe file. I didn't play the mod for so long but I still cherish the gamma hack for the rare times q3 crashes or something. Find me in #tf >4hours from now and ask me for it.
Or Use Setgamma
#2435 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/08/23 18:21:26
http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake...
Probably does the same thing.
Or Use A Couple Of Commandline Thingamajigs
#2436 posted by czg [80.202.31.56] on 2004/08/23 18:43:48
For instance,
+r_gamma 1 +r_brightness 1
Lies
#2437 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/08/23 22:30:07
I'm happy you seem to be able to use 1.5 easily (personally I consider it unuseable after earlier versions). But the simple fact is, some tasks take longer or take more steps. It was unecessary to change the brush manipulation stuff (if it ain't broke, don't fix it!). The new brush controls might make it easier to learn the editor or might make it more comfortable for maya/wordlcraft/whatever users to adjust...
...but for experienced radiant users, it just plain sucks. What GtkRadiant had over other editors was the sheer speed and efficiency with which you could manipulate brushes (create, re-size, edge & vert manipulation, etc).
Once you get used to it, you'll be just as fast as you were with old style radiant.
Its simply not true. In 1.5.x, you drag and edge or a vert, you have to select the brush, then turn on edge/vert mode, then select the vert/edge, and then drag it. In older versions, you just select the brush, hit edge mode and drag the vert straight away. 1.5.x adds the unecessary step of having to manually select the verts you want to move before moving them. Therefore it will always take longer to perform basic operations like dragging verts and edges. Therefore mapping time increases substantially over the course of a project. The sole benefit that the new 1.5 method brings is that you can select more than one vert at a time to drag... but considering you probably only want to do that at most 1-5% of the time, you lose more time than you save.
Basically all the new brush manipulation stuff is pants. Most especially the texturing. OMG having to select the brush, then hit face mode, then select some shitty handle on the face you want, THEN you can finally apply a texture to it? I mean what in the flying fuck... Radiant had an awesome texturing system, you could do so much cool stuff quickly, why change it?
New methods of doing stuff is fine and good but make it an option and put the traditional Radiant style editing back as the default. There are a few new things that work well and should stay (eg the Maya style handles for rotation of brushes only, but the new stuff should be optional and the old stuff should be restored as the defaults. Come on SpoG, at the very least put an option in there for old style editing that actually works.
I Pretty Much Agree With Frib
#2438 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/08/24 01:03:31
yeah.
And Me
#2439 posted by Vondur [81.195.20.139] on 2004/08/24 01:10:31
i actually hate this change in radiant
Fat Controller
#2440 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/08/24 02:22:11
I will try it this evening, thanks a lot for this advice: it's a very good idea !!!
Just a few question: have you tried this method with lightning in one of your map before ???
GTK 1.5
#2441 posted by VoreLord [144.131.203.160] on 2004/08/24 03:05:44
You can hit the magic "q" key, and have the brush resizing etc the same as in previous versions of GTK. But yes, I prefer to use 1.4 myself, and for DooM3, I am quite liking the built in editor, although there are things i wish were different, and more GTK like, but oh well.......................
Having an option to either have the new style, or the old style (with selected improvements) would be nice
Gtk Stuff
#2442 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.15.89] on 2004/08/24 06:45:07
Vorelord: that's nice in theory, but in practice it actually does not revert back to the original controls if you press Q. It does allow you to do old-style brush moving and resizing, but, you still have to switch modes back to the new stuff to do vert/edge manipulation. And of course you still have to switch to face mode to texture stuff.. etc.
The fact that radiant editing features mostly were not broken up into different modes (eg face mode, move mode, select mode.. etc) is the main thing that set it apart from the other editors, and one of the big reasons Radiant was the editor of choice even for games like Quake (which it didn't natively support).
I don't mean to bitch so much... I do appreciate the efforts of SpoG and everyone else who has contributed to GtkR. I'd really love to be able to upgrade to 1.5.x as there's some cool new features and improvements, however on the balance of things it is not worth upgrading because of the big backwards step in editing speed and efficiency.
Yes
#2443 posted by VoreLord [144.131.203.160] on 2004/08/24 06:53:40
It's not a "fix" to revert to the old, it just gives you some of the old ways back. I prefer the old way myself, IMO, it was far more intuitive.
Gtk 1.5
#2444 posted by Kell [82.41.218.44] on 2004/08/24 11:14:08
I haven't used it, but I have been using an older version of GtkR for Q1 mapping for some time. Based on the very detailed rants by Frib, I can totally agree with what seems to be the general opinion: it wasn't broke => it shouldn't have been fixed.
Piling On
#2445 posted by pushplay [129.128.29.124] on 2004/08/24 13:19:51
I've been forcing myself to use GtkRadiant 1.5 while working on my q3 map and here's what I've noticed...
-middle mouse for copying textures was a priceless feature, and yes I know it will be back
-using ctrl for skew was really fast when vertex manipulation is overkill
-face selection mode is good for texturing a lot of faces at once, but for doing a single face the old method was 10x faster. There's no reason the shift-ctrl method should have been removed
...
#2446 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/24 13:36:35
is the new method faster for selecting multiple faces than the old shift-ctrl-alt method? O_o
Re: GTKRadiant 1.5
#2447 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/08/24 13:57:06
necros: no.
And I agree with all general comments that texturing and skewing was a lot faster in GTKRadiant versions before 1.5. I can understand trying to unify the interface, but making something slower and then not listening to your testers when they ask you to make it faster is just not a good policy.
Frib: out of curiosity, what version of GTKR do you currently use? I have 1.4.0 from Dec 21, 2003 and there are a few bugs in there that really get me annoyed (b0rked edge selection and clipper preview are the big ones).
Well,
#2448 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.226] on 2004/08/24 13:59:07
I've made it clear that I'll be using GTK for the first time when I start my third map. Taking in all these comments, I'm pretty sure I'll use the 1.4 version.
Two reasons: It will be a Q3 bsp, so I don't need 1.5's native Q1 support.
Also, am I right in assuming that 1.4 is more similar to DoomEdit than 1.5? I'd imagine that would be handy when (if) I start D3 mapping.
But mainly, all this talk of 1.5's clunky interface has really put me off.
Frib:
#2449 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.255.2.105] on 2004/08/24 15:33:02
Check the latest beta from www.qeradiant.com, it has old-style vertex/edge dragging...
#2450 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.188] on 2004/08/24 18:59:40
necros: Not faster no, but when you attempt the scale multiple brushes along a common plane, I find it's very handy to be able to drag in only 1 direction, rather than the old style where it'd be common that you'd accidentally pulled a bit to another direction and ended up with one of the brushes with a side moved that you didn't intend.
..
#2451 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/24 21:58:23
well, in 1.4, there are three buttons on the tool bar, X, Y, Z which lock the scaling in only that one direction at a time... so i fail to see the advantage...
<-- Mr. Embaressed Face
#2452 posted by Scampie [66.231.198.188] on 2004/08/24 22:08:13
Is that what those buttons do!? I never touched them, figuring them to be shortcuts to scale on axis by a value. Thanks :D
Rpg.. Gtk Versions
#2453 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/08/24 22:34:03
I use 1.2.13 which is the last stable version which has all the features I like working and stuff. 1.4 is ok but it has a few old features that are broken (like paste to camera, dragging and dropping textures onto faces from the texture window, etc etc).
I've tried 1.3.8 and 1.4 but they don't really offer anything new that is useful for quake based editing, and some features are broken or missing, so you're really not missing anything if you're mapping for q1. For anyone doing q1 stuff I'd recommend using 1.2.13, for sure... edit mostly in q3 mode and then use a map converter or DuBSP to directly import the q3 map format. So, to get it all working
1. Install GtkRadiantSetup-1.2.11-Q3RTCW.exe
2. GtkRadiantSetup-1.2.13-update.exe
3. Use Tigger-on's setup guide here: http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
4. Map and be happy!
Other Stuff
#2454 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/08/24 22:39:26
RPG: yeah, I don't like the dodgy clipper thing either.
Kell: It will be a Q3 bsp, so I don't need 1.5's native Q1 support.
You don't need native Q1 support to map for Q1 in Radiant anyways. I guess it probably helps in some ways, but once you have it all set up (and yes, it is a pain in the ass, but Tig's setup guide makes it a lot easier) its plain sailing from then on.
I do use Riot's DuBSP so I don't have to worry about converting the .map to Q1 format, but you can use Sleepwalkr's map converter to convert it and then use any old bsp compiler too.
Aquire: It would be really awesome if you could include Q3 map format support in your BSP programs. Its really handy in DuBSP to be able to just use the -q3import switch and have it all work like magic. The map converter is ok but its an extra step and its a bit of a hassle at times.
#2433 From Fat Controller
#2455 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/08/25 05:56:34
Well, I've implemented your method to have a permanent lightning effect, and it works fine :)... I've just a problem of "location" of the lightning beam (at the bottom of the door instead of the top as wanted...), but it's pretty easy to correct...
So, just great thanks for your help man.. Bye..
Paste To Camera
#2456 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/08/25 16:07:39
does that paste only the position of the camera or does it include rotations and stuff in gtkrad? I remember using paste to camera position with brushes in conjunction with a command to get the normal for a face in ogier to angle sunlight the way you wanted without having to think about what numbers to put in yourself.
Frib
#2457 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.105] on 2004/08/26 12:48:00
If all goes well, the upcoming version of my compilers will have a -q2map option which enables support for Q2/Q3 style map format from e.g. GtkRadiant.
Trigger In Clipping List
#2458 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.220] on 2004/08/26 15:25:37
When playing through Kona's Carved In Flesh pak, I suddenly was thrown out of the engine with a Trigger in clipping list messagebox. It happened when I fired the newly acquired positron beam weapon in a certain direction. Does anyone recognize this or know what the cause could be?
It appears to have some similarity to the recently fixed e2m2 easy skill crash (also appearing in Ariadat). I've tried several engines with the same results.
Winxp Failed Arghlight
#2459 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/08/26 15:56:27
after compiling well for a period my arghlight suddenly fails to run on winxp.
Now everytime the message appears
light.exe failed
or
file read error
and
SV/model/index:modelprogs/player.m... not precached
It just happens after a time of well compiling,
what goes wrong?
Aguire,
#2460 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/26 16:13:04
this is more of a qc problem then engine oriented.
quake builds a clipping list at some point during map load. when you switch an entity's .solid setting later on, this causes a problem because quake finds things in the list that don't belong there.
the trick is to use a setorigin(self, self.origin) to 'refresh' the list.
i guess an engine alternative would be to refresh the list everytime qc changes the .solid setting...
Necros
#2461 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.145] on 2004/08/26 16:51:32
Thanks for the info, after some investigation I also think it's somehow QC related, possibly the self.solid isn't properly set (to SOLID_NOT?) after the player has grabbed the positron weapon.
I had this problem now and then throughout the whole pak which prevented me from using that weapon effectively.
I've now at least added the classname of the malplaced trigger edict (here posibeam) to the printout to ease troubleshooting.
D3edit
#2462 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/26 23:21:46
is there any way to get the standard 4 window (XYZ+3d Views) setup instead of the default wierd 1 top down + 3d + z thing?
also, the "inspectors" window can't be closed... like, you press T and it switches to textures, but pressing t again doesn't close the window... can it be done?
Yes
#2463 posted by VoreLord [203.51.207.131] on 2004/08/27 01:35:24
If you go to the view menu/toggle, select top, side, front etc, they will open, but they are stacked on top of each other, so just drag them aside, position and resize them to your liking.
Inspector window, no I don't beleive it can be closed,(well it can, but then you have trouble reopening it, without restarting the editor) you can manualy move it out of the way, a pain I know, I have started just having it on the lower right, and leaving it there, you can also double click the individual tabs in the inspector window, and they will undock, when you close them they automatically redock in the inspector window.
I have settled for one half screen for the autho veiews, quarter screen 3d view, and quarter view inspector window. I wish I could get rid of the Z window all together, but it just gets hidden out of view anyway.
Hmmm
#2464 posted by VoreLord [203.51.207.131] on 2004/08/27 01:42:10
I wish it could be set up just like I use GTK 1.4 and previous. I have basically one window open at a time (maximised) and just toggle through the top, side and front views when needed, or ctrl/shift/c for the camera view, and you just hit T, O, or N to bring up the tex,con or ent windows, but alas........... having to use little windows makes me feel like I have to bend down and try to peek in, I much rather the full screen area (maximised) for each window, much better. GTK 1.5 doesn't seem to allow me to do this either. But beggers can't be choosers
Trigger In Clipping List Follow Up
#2465 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.130] on 2004/08/27 10:09:31
When looking at the "Carved In Flesh" thread here I noticed that cyBeAr also had the same problem with the positron gun with Win/FitzQuake, but DarkPlaces handled it better.
After some investigation, it appears to be fixable in the engine so I've done the same in my engines. It might still be a problem caused in QC of course.
.
#2466 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/27 11:54:15
well... one could argue it is a problem with the engine, because, really, it should check and refresh the list when a change is made to an entity's solid type, however, it's easily fixable (by using a setorigin function right after) so it can also be argued that it is the qc coder's fault that he/she did not take this into account.
therefore, i'd suggest you actually leave it as it was (broke) so that when people test their mods out on your engine, they will get that error, find out what it is and fix it so it works in all engines.
0.02 ;)
Damn Straight
#2467 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/08/27 11:56:32
make the coders work for their crust!
Well
#2468 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.41] on 2004/08/27 13:17:26
since the major goal with my engines is to be able to load (and play) maps that others can't, I can hardly leave it broken if there's an easy way around it.
Also, using my engines as a test for classic engine load/playability, is not really recommended since they have significantly higher limits.
.
#2469 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/08/27 14:06:59
well, ultimatly it's your choice, but this is simply a bug that should have been fixed in the progs.dat. changing the engine so it doesn't complain about a bug that could have been fixed doesn't make sense to me.
Possibly
#2470 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.88] on 2004/08/27 17:14:34
useful explanations of some BSP tech stuff, e.g. marksurfaces: http://forums.quakesrc.org/viewtop...
Scroll down to Spike's post from today.
Maybe The Wrong Place To Post, But...
#2471 posted by Drew [205.206.132.152] on 2004/08/30 18:12:16
Does anyone know where I can find a good, windows compatible editor for old school doom? I tried DCK v3.62, but it only works in DOS mode as far as I can tell.
Thanks!
D
#2472 posted by czg [80.202.31.56] on 2004/08/30 18:47:45
At least we can point you in the correct direction:
http://www.doomworld.com/classicdo...
#2473 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2004/08/30 22:55:50
For a good, straight forward doom mapping tool, wadc is clearly the only correct choice.
Drew
#2474 posted by Vondur [83.237.18.18] on 2004/08/31 01:08:49
the best editor for classic doom is doombuilder
www.doombuilder.com
Help!
#2475 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/09/01 00:21:15
Hey all -- I'm working on a Quake map for a mod, and I'm trying to set a door to be triggered by a button. I've done it a million times in my maps but for some reason, it's not working here. I've checked everything a million times and I dunno what's wrong. So I have given up, and I seek your help.
http://home.comcast.net/~teh_blitz...
http://home.comcast.net/~teh_blitz...
Thanks for your help.
Dude,
#2476 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/09/01 00:41:03
you've got two doors touching and being triggered at different times.
you need to check the "doors don't link" spawnflag so that each can be trig'd seperatly.
Aguire - Light
#2477 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/09/01 00:47:40
dude, i've got some pretty funky problems with the light program...
i'm not sure what's going on... it happens on a rotating torus brush... basically, the brush should be lit more or less uniformly, but in-game, the top, bottom, left and right areas of the torus are the only parts the proper lighting, the rest is fullblack...
anything i can do about that?
also, would it be possible to have light.exe to check, not only target-targetname sets, but also target2,3,4 and targetname2,3,4 sets? (numbers to do reference each other, target2 can target targetname4, etc...)
LOL!
#2478 posted by Blitz [24.218.135.18] on 2004/09/01 01:08:44
Thanks necros -- Lordhavoc told me the same thing right as read your post -- I totally forgot they were touching. My intention was to leave the smallest unit of space between them. Thanks.
Necros
#2479 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.66] on 2004/09/01 05:57:12
Rotating brush lighting: I've some faint memory that rot brushes are actually positioned in the middle of the map (0 0 0) and this affects lighting (of course). I don't know if it's fixable. Please send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see what I can do.
Multiple target checking: Certainly possible, but I assume this must be some QC hack to get it to work in-game, right? I'm not sure I want to adapt a standard light tool for a specific progs.dat.
I've not even disabled the normal light complaints about missing target lighting although it's in the standard progs.dat for a similar reason.
Would you also like to have the light style handling on these additional keypairs or is it just a matching check?
Rot Light
#2480 posted by Kinn [81.154.192.132] on 2004/09/02 13:09:32
I've some faint memory that rot brushes are actually positioned in the middle of the map (0 0 0) and this affects lighting (of course)
Hmmm...I had loads of rotators in Bastion and they all seemed to light correctly. (I was using the Hip rotator code btw).
I Remember That Too
#2481 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/09/02 18:20:37
i think it might have been in custents where the brushes light like theyre at (0 0 0). Wait, didnt that use the Hip rotate code? I dunno.
Light On Rotating Brushes
#2482 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2004/09/02 18:24:35
IIRC, the wierd lighting on rotating brushes has to do with the dynamic lights (e.g. muzzle flash, etc.), so it's more of an engine or QC problem. Static lighting should work fine.
I also found some wierdness where the position of the rotate_origin (I think) would affect the texture offsets. I may be able to dig up my example maps somewhere...
Convmap.exe
#2483 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/09/02 18:37:23
i've been having some strange trouble with convmap (not mapconv, btw)...
mapconv packed up and left, spouting german obscenities, so i'm using convmap now, but when using the command line:
convmap -i -f32 mapfile
it refuses to write a file, however, if i omit the -i, and then say "Y" when it asks me if i wish to convert the file it will do it.
since i'm using this in a batch file, i'd like to get it to convert without asking me and requiring a keystroke...
any ideas?
Rotating Brush Wierdness
#2484 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2004/09/02 18:51:55
Grab this file and note the subtle differences in the map files and how they affect the dynamic lighting and texturing of the func_rotate_door (hipnotic progs):
http://planetquake.com/tyrann/file...
(this is stuff I discovered during the OUM project)
Necros
#2485 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.235] on 2004/09/02 19:48:54
The ConvMap option groups are order sensitive; use the line convmap -f32 -i mapfile instead. The first group is the conversion group and the 2nd is the file selection group. It's certainly not the most user-friendly interface I've done ...
In the next version of my compilers you can omit the conversion step and use the new -q2map option in qbsp instead.
Weird Hipnotic QC Error
#2486 posted by Tronyn [70.64.188.34] on 2004/09/02 20:33:00
I've got a level that has tons of monsters spawning in, mostly using func_spawn and func_spawn_small. Now, for some reason, some of these func_spawns (some of the last ones placed) spawn in monster_dog rather than the monster specified by spawnclassfunction and spawnclassname. See, but I don't want dogs I want ogres and fiends. Any idea on why this might be?
Thanks, Aguire.
#2487 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/09/03 00:02:13
[nt]
Gtkradiant Question:
#2488 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/09/03 22:49:01
is it possible to get the quick compile menu to work with batch files so i can compile maps in q1 format right from the gtkr menu? i tried experimenting a bit, but gtkr started talking about not being able to connect to 127.0.0.0 (me) so i gave up...
Qc Error:
#2489 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/09/03 22:51:09
are you sure the spawnclassname *and* spawnclassname are set? the func_spawn from hip (and custents) defaults to a random choice of dogs, fiends, shamblers and a few others. dogs are the most common in the random pick, so it's possible you just had a coincidence and you saw the dog on those occasions.
beyond that, i've never had any problems with the spawner code and i used is *extensivly* in ne_os1 without noticing a thing.
Removing Floors Beneath Items
#2490 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.191] on 2004/09/04 08:03:24
Ok, I've got breakable floors in my map, but I can't get items on top to fall through once the floor has been removed. Monsters fall through fine, but items just stay hovering in the air.
Now, items are MOVETYPE_TOSS, which means they should obey gravity, right? Does the engine make them static shortly after placing them in the level?
Makers Of Big Q1 Maps
#2491 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.83] on 2004/09/04 08:41:21
might want to keep an eye on the # vertexes in bsp, if the value exceeds 64k, the engine will probably have trouble loading it.
Kinn
#2492 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/04 09:56:29
AFAIK the only way to get around that without weird level-based hacks is to modify the engine. The bug itself can be exploited beneficially (see Vondur's Zed and Zed 2). I also exploited it in RPGSP1 when I had a MH float in the air, but then had to use a weird hack where I had a func_door nudge it for it to obey gravity again. (The source to RPGSP1 is available at my site if you want to look at what I did.)
I believe I was told something about it being a bug in fall-to-floor. The level loads, the item falls to the floor, and then it stays static until something forces it to move again (pushing down, up, or sideways). As an example, if it's on a func_train that starts moving up, you have no problem. But if it starts by moving down, then it will float like you've seen.
If you bump the item before the floor breaks, I wonder if it would stay dynamic so that it would fall after the breakage.
Solved It In A (slightly) Hacky Way
#2493 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.220] on 2004/09/04 10:07:19
RPG - thanks for the info, although I have taken a QC-based approach.
I created new QC where the floor and the items on top of it are linked through target/targetnames (basically the disappearing floor targets the items).
Now, when the floor is removed, it searches through the entity list for the matching targetnames, and takes off their FL_ONGROUND flag. Voila, the engine assumes the items are now in motion, and they magically obey normal physics and fall through the gap.
RPG:
#2494 posted by metlslime [206.169.93.48] on 2004/09/05 06:00:19
interesting post; i wasn't aware of the "bump to make it obey physics again" hack.
Making A New Start
#2495 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/05 12:17:13
The boss-gate, which only appears after receiving the sigil.
Right, then you got four boss-gates closed, and one finnishes the end-level.
At that point
what option does the changelevel of the end.bsp has, to return to the start-level without the boss-gates again?
I tried "jrstart" but it won't work.
I tried "start" but then the boss-gates are still there, although it's the same option as in the original game.
I Believe
#2496 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.146] on 2004/09/05 13:22:57
(and if I had the time today, I would double check it for you, sorry) that it is hard coded in client.qc. You would need to change it there to get it to work normally if you are in poseession of the sigil.
MadFox
#2497 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/06 08:00:30
Take a look at http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak... and select client.qc
Texture Mip Issue
#2498 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.181] on 2004/09/06 13:20:15
While playing through Kona's Ultramarine map, I noticed that in WinQuake some textures on the walls were flickering considerably when moving around. Up close the texture looked as it should, but after moving away the texture changed substantially. In GLQuake everything looked OK.
After loading the bsp into TexMex, I noticed that this texture didn't have the same look in all its mip levels; some white stripes were missing. Re-miping the texture did the the trick.
I've never noticed this before, is there a reason not to have the same texture in all mip levels or is it just a mishap?
It's Possible
#2499 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/09/06 14:01:08
he just forgot to remip the texture after making some adjustments.
i don't think there's any real reason to do it, unless you were looking for a very specific effect. (perhaps getting the textures to fade in the distance?)
I Doubt
#2500 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.3] on 2004/09/06 14:33:31
that it was for visual quality, I don't think I've ever seen the mip level switch so obviously. I first thought it was some switchable light, func_wall flickering or even z-fighting.
The interesting thing is that it's not visible at all in GLQuake; it appears as if GLQ doesn't use the smaller mip levels but generates them on the fly from the biggest texture.
Multum In Parvo
#2501 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/09/06 15:05:53
This will be because of Texmex; if you paste a texture into a wad then alter the graphic later, TexMex prompts you to 'generate new submips?'. One assumes that in this instance, Kona selected 'No'.
Possible
#2502 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.234] on 2004/09/06 15:27:36
I also had an interesting TexMex issue when loading the bsp, re-miping that texture and then exiting and answering 'Yes' on save file.
After loading the bsp and checking out the weird texture in WinQuake, it was still not re-mipped. Then I noticed that TexMex had saved my changed data into a new wad file instead of the bsp and forgot to tell me ...
Btw, after inspecting the GLQuake source, I think I can confirm that it doesn't use the smaller mip levels but generates them on the fly.
GlQuake
#2503 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.195] on 2004/09/06 17:15:46
Yeah, it's just another example of why you should always playtest your maps in both Gl and software engines. Kona's maps also sometimes suffer from stray fullbrights; another glitch that won't get picked up in vanilla GlQuake.
Clipnodes...
#2504 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/09/06 17:29:17
is it normal, when loading a map with excessive clipnodes into aguire's glquake, for doors to become non solid? they still blocks rockets and grendades, but the player can walk through them...
Necros
#2505 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.195] on 2004/09/06 18:25:50
I'm experiencing the exact same problem in all engines I've tested my map in (aguirRe's, DarkPlaces).
A Bizarre Problem...
#2506 posted by Jago [81.197.192.119] on 2004/09/06 18:45:27
I have something truly strange going on in my map: as soon as the map loads, you hear the sound of an opening door although no door is opening and when you move around the first room of the map you hear the sound of a lift. There is no lift nearby... Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? I've tried fullvising the map, but that didn't help.
Necros
#2507 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.77] on 2004/09/06 19:39:45
The clipnodes are directly related to the clipping hulls for collision detection so it seems reasonable. Rockets and grenades are point entities and clip against hull 0 (visible hull).
Aguire
#2508 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/09/06 22:40:50
As far as I know, TexMex won't let you save the .bsp if you've made any changes to it, with the exception of pasting a new texture or submip image over the top of an existing one. You can't add, remove, rename, resize, or remip textures and then save the BSP again.
I might be wrong about the remip thing though; try specifically saving the file as whatever.bsp as the default behaviour for TexMex (with BSP files) is to save the file as mapname.wad anyways, since that's usually what you want to do.
Frib
#2509 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.87] on 2004/09/07 05:43:38
Thanks for the tips, I solved it by taking the wad TexMex generated and run it through the updbsp tool, which updates the bsp with the new wad.
Mixed Face Contents
#2510 posted by Ankhgod [212.121.135.226] on 2004/09/08 06:52:56
Is it ok to have mixed face contents in a Q1 map? I know what causes this warning in my map, but would like to leave it this way.
Ankhgod
#2511 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/09/08 07:58:29
See aguiRe's Tool Tips file at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
#2512 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/09/08 08:14:26
Ankhgod: it's 'ok' in that it only gives a warning and not a show stopping error, but the brush will only use the properties of the first face as defined in the .map source, which is difficult to tell in the editor. It's generally better to just use 1 type of texture per brush (solids only, water/lava/slime only, sky only).
Ankhgod
#2513 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.72] on 2004/09/08 11:18:29
If you're using my compilers and if it's only a warning (i.e. one of the contents is Empty), it's caused by small brush misalignments and not any actual "mixed face contents" like mixing sky and *lava.
Brush misalignments are usually a good idea to look into and get rid of, otherwise they have a tendency to come up later as nasty clipping errors, HOMs etc.
What Happened...
#2514 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/08 11:28:17
Simple map, added a teleporter and a target.
Now when I cross the 0.0.0 in the map I suddenly get teleported. This is not the place of the teleporter, which is at the outer edges.
Madfox
#2515 posted by Kinn [81.152.225.123] on 2004/09/08 12:15:13
trigger fields are based on the mins/maxs of the trigger brush, it doesn't work like bsp collision.
I don't know if that is the problem, but it's useful info nonetheless.
Not Sure
#2516 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/08 12:33:57
what you mean, the trigger brush doesn't touch other brushes or is in the area of the 0.0.0 point.
..
#2517 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/09/08 12:42:11
well, you are using quark.
i know quark uses some kind of trick to get trigger_relays and such to work without actually requiring a brush. it's possible you muffed up some how and maybe, renamed a trigger_relay to trigger_teleport (which would work in other editors) and not the trigger field is set to '0 0 0'. beyond that, i don't know...
Madfox
#2518 posted by Kinn [81.152.225.123] on 2004/09/08 12:48:46
Describe the shape of your teleport trigger brush(es).
If you have (for example) a trigger made up from two rectangular brushes joined to form an "L" shape, then the trigger field would encompass not just the space occupied by the brushes, but also the space inbetween, defined by the combined mins/maxs of all the brushes that comprise your trigger entity. eg:
x p
x
x x x
say a trigger is defined by brushes occupying the 'x's - a player at point 'p' would still activate the trigger.
Note
#2519 posted by Kinn [81.152.225.123] on 2004/09/08 12:50:13
the func_ gremlins screwed up that "diagram" somewhat, but just imagine the 'p' shifted along a few spaces to the right (above the last 'x' on the bottom row).
But Wait..
#2520 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/08 12:57:04
shape of the teleporter: 1291 6 695
teleporter destination : 2291 288 500
The error occurs when one passes point 0.0.0
in the map. With the teleporter itself is nothing wrong.
Madfox
#2521 posted by Kinn [81.152.225.123] on 2004/09/08 13:09:31
is your teleport trigger just a simple rectangular brush?
Kinn
#2522 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/08 14:01:14
cheque your email
It Appears
#2523 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.134] on 2004/09/08 14:45:21
to be just two orphaned trigger_teleport entities without any brushes attached. The engine (or QC) probably just put them at (0 0 0) and hope noone will notice.
Madfox
#2524 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.251] on 2004/09/08 15:31:23
hi, just got your email. Dl'd and installed your pak. I managed to find the "Facade" map and the area in question. To be honest, it's a bit difficult to troubleshoot with just the .bsp - but I think aguirRe is the man to listen to here :) (see his post above).
...
#2525 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/09/08 15:46:53
didn't i say that?
Sorry, Yeah
#2526 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.251] on 2004/09/08 15:50:59
My Carelessly
#2527 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/09/08 20:18:30
I had deleted the teleporter-brush without deleting the func_teleport. Reason the map became waxed.
Sorry for my short sighted mapping value.
MadFox
#2528 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/09/09 02:35:21
... "c'est le metier qui rentre".... :)
Not All Parts Of The Map Get Lit
#2529 posted by codeboy [64.47.34.180] on 2004/09/09 13:50:02
New feature added to my code which supports
day\nite cycle in quakeworld but i noticed
not all spots get lit. All the outside edges will not light up. Its a big map because
it supports helocopters. Any ideas?
How Are You Doing It?
#2530 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/09 16:30:28
lightstyles with quakec? Some engine hack?
Codeboy
#2531 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/10 02:15:48
I hope day/night cycles are not 24 hours !! I've never found somebody who played Quake for 24 hours consecutively... or this guy was a real fool Quake-maniac player 8p
Day\nite Cycle
#2532 posted by codeboy [64.47.34.180] on 2004/09/10 12:03:57
Its in the C code(mod) and not engine but I do
work with the QW engine too.
No, not base on 24hr clock...hehe. its configurable but like to have it cycle 2 or 3 times in 35 min map time limit.
Starting looking at the light code and suspect a bug or limitation but need to confirm one more thing with my code first
Codeboy:
#2533 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/10 14:57:44
we can't help you without more information.
Multiple Trigger Events Query
#2534 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.24] on 2004/09/13 18:04:27
I have a key door that I want to trigger multiple events. It triggers its own door, some other doors, some monster spawns and a 'trigger_once'. This last item has a delay set before it then triggers more doors - only it doesn't trigger them. All 'target' and 'targetname' entries are correct. The direction on the doors is set. I have tried trigger_once and trigger_multiple, also to no avail.
I want to use the delay as I do not want too much going on at one time: there are 12 other doors and several monsters involved, all within close proximity.
Is it me, or the wrong trigger, or what? Anyone tried something similar before?
If You're Using A Trigger_once
#2535 posted by czg [80.202.218.246] on 2004/09/13 18:57:09
Tried setting the "Entity only" spawnflag (1)?
You may also try using the trigger_relay entity, which is a point entity. Use it exactly as trigger_multiple, except it hasn't got a brush.
Mike
#2536 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.165] on 2004/09/13 19:08:50
also note, if your trigger has a "killtarget", it will fail to fire it's regular "target". I consider this a bug in SUB_UseTargets, where the function exits too early if it has a killtarget set.
I've Noticed
#2537 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.68] on 2004/09/13 19:11:38
that trigger_relays don't work quite rightly in certain custom engines. Try playing the start level to the classic Tale of Abbot's Rune with Dark Places and you will see a royal fuck up.
Thanks
#2538 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.24] on 2004/09/13 19:39:00
czg: tried Entity Only, still no go. I am not clear on setting an entity without a brush?
Kinn: I didn't use KillTarget.
HeadThump: I am using Fitzquake. I am up to 430 entities with only 87 monsters (I have about 20 yet to be placed)
Mike
#2539 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.165] on 2004/09/13 19:56:28
I'd go with czg's advice and try replacing your faulty trigger_once with a trigger_relay - the trigger_relay is designed to obsolete the trigger_once in that situation anyway.
Gah
#2540 posted by NotoriousRay [68.48.66.194] on 2004/09/13 20:10:15
also note, if your trigger has a "killtarget", it will fail to fire it's regular "target". I consider this a bug in SUB_UseTargets, where the function exits too early if it has a killtarget set.
jesus christ, how did i not know this? this caused me a lot of grief doing the end of pbrsp1. oh well :)
Tosser!!
#2541 posted by Mike Woodenhead [81.154.201.213] on 2004/09/14 16:07:21
My doors were touching and I had not set the the door_dont_link flag.
The doors in question were originally solid brushes that I converted to doors for effects. However, the second doors (via the trigger_relay) did not move with the first doors. Had they have done so, I would probably have twigged it straight away.
This lack of movement is not really a bug: first door is triggered, second door does not move because although it is touching, it has a different 'targetname'. Then the trigger_relay kicks-in but the engine gets confused because the doors were touching. Well, maybe.
Anyway, all now OK so not far from finishing the map. ('bout bloody time)
Methodology Issue
#2542 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/15 03:39:06
Hello all,
I have a little problem during QBSP process. I use in my map some arches which are rotated of 45 degrees, and it generates me a lot of CutNodePortals_r warnings, even if I forced brush to grid (dot corner by dot corner), and as well for textures alignment.. So, what is the good method to avoid this kind of problems ??
All good ideas and advices are welcomed.. thanx
PS: I'm using QuArK6.4 editor and aguirRe's TxQBSP tool..;)
Difficult To Say
#2543 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.226] on 2004/09/15 05:56:24
but rotation of full objects can be tricky. Did you make the gridsnapping (for each vertex) before or after the rotation? In which hull(s) do you get the warnings?
If you can't sort it out and you're not having obvious problems in the area (clipping errors, HOMs, bad shadows etc), you might ignore the warnings. Make a full build to verify these things.
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
AguirRe
#2544 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/15 06:09:44
I made the gridsnapping and texture re-alignement after the rotation... And if I remember well, the warnings occured in hull 0...
These arches are added just to break some uniform huge grey areas... and I can easily find a turnaround without any additional arches use... it is just an "aesthetic" add...
anyway, I just would like to know if there is a method to avoid these fu****g warnings that pollute my log file...
Thanx...
It's Ok JPLambert
#2545 posted by Scampie [216.220.241.97] on 2004/09/15 08:52:48
you can say FUCKING here. we're not that easily offended :D
Hehe...
#2546 posted by distrans [144.134.131.105] on 2004/09/15 09:10:35
...I know you've said ...[t]hese arches are added just to break some uniform huge grey areas... but it's probably best to keep angular irregularity quarantined from other spaces in the level, so smaller vestibules rather than huge grey areas. Mind you, nowadays at least, you might just as easily say "fuck the CutNodePortals_r warnings" as long as r_speeds are within limits.
Well..
#2547 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/15 09:22:34
... it's rather a design aesthetic issue than an real QBSP compilation problem... I have a huge places where all walls and ceiling are grey (like reinforce concrete bunker walls...), and I just would like to break this uniformity....
Anyway... I have a little idea to avoid this kind of FUCKING "troubleshootings"...
(I said it, yesssss.... )
It...
#2548 posted by distrans [144.134.131.105] on 2004/09/15 09:28:47
...will set you free! Occasionally... for a while... perhaps... then comes the vacuum... and the need... then the drugs... etc.
Also...
#2549 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/15 15:53:29
i personally wouldn't rotate anything that had multiple brushes that had to line up. I'd build it from scratch at the angle i wanted it.
Metlslime
#2550 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/09/15 16:08:41
Rotating doors consisting of multiple brushes 90 degrees has never caused me any issues.
Jago
#2551 posted by Kinn [217.43.151.35] on 2004/09/15 16:48:24
Well, (unless that was sarcasm), obviously you won't have any issues when rotating objects in increments of 90, due to the symmetry of the coordinate system.
Rotating a brush any other amount is generally a bad idea, in my experience. Like metlslime said, build from scratch and use vertex manip. to get it at the angle you require.
Yep
#2552 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/09/15 19:02:07
Rotating by anything other than 90º is a recipe for disaster. Do what metlkinn said.
Probly Around Somewhere
#2553 posted by [Jimbo] [65.161.73.251] on 2004/09/15 23:18:32
anyone know of a a radiant tutorial for worldcraft/hammer users?
or does such a creature exist?
Metlslime And Kinn
#2554 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/09/16 02:46:32
I agree, some rotation angles are more tricky to manage than others, I've experienced it... But I think it's rather difficult to build (for example) arches with more than 8 sections with the same precision the "shape-builder" tool do, with or without roation ! This due to the arche's intersections that can be off-grid ... and this is a real problem to polish correctly a design...
[Jimbo]
#2555 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/09/16 06:40:31
Just take a look at http://ugg.codealliance.ca/tutoria... , perhaps you will find what you are looking for..
Painkiller 1.35 Patch & Tools
#2556 posted by Shallow [62.3.242.7] on 2004/09/16 07:29:22
Tried this briefly last night, and the editor smacks me in the face with an error message saying it "failed to initialise DirectX9 renderer" and won't start. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this out yet, and whether it worked for you or not, before I start mucking about with drivers etc.
Q1 Tools Update
#2557 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.162] on 2004/09/17 05:58:16
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are hardware gamma support in GLQuake, increased capacity in both engines, support for Q2/Q3 map format (from e.g. GtkRadiant) in compilers and many fixes/improvements. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
You...
#2558 posted by distrans [144.134.131.89] on 2004/09/17 07:47:29
...are closely related to God.
We Are All God's Children
#2559 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/17 08:39:46
.
Yes...
#2560 posted by distrans [203.54.141.186] on 2004/09/17 10:20:57
...we are but the children, BJ is something else.
AguiRe,
#2561 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.215] on 2004/09/17 13:10:13
Does your version of Q3 map support include terrain alpha mapping?
I Don't Even Know
#2562 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.228] on 2004/09/17 13:31:20
what that is, so probably not ...
It's not actually any specific Q3 support, it's only automatically converting from the Q2/Q3 map format into Q1, translating some and ignoring some of the info.
Nothing new, qbsp is just doing what SleepwalkR's MapConv and my ConvMap otherwise does in a pre-compile step.
distrans: I take it that there was something in this release that appealed to you?
MapSpy
#2563 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.145.122] on 2004/09/17 14:31:42
Does anyone use this to check their maps and if so, can you tell me if the output from running a Quake1 map through it gives accurate information.
In other words is it exclusively a Q2 utility?
Mike
#2564 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/17 15:21:00
Yes, I do use it for Q1 on occasion. And only part of the info is useful for Q1 maps (e.g. bad brush output).
R0ck
#2565 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.20.90] on 2004/09/17 21:20:50
aguirRe, you are, without a doubt, THE MAN.
What He Said ^^^^
#2566 posted by VoreLord [144.137.189.130] on 2004/09/17 21:31:29
Although if you added coloured light you would be THE MAN x2
Mmm....coloured Light.... :D~~
#2567 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.247] on 2004/09/18 05:38:48
Thanks For The
#2568 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.241] on 2004/09/18 06:08:46
kind words guys! Although I'm still a bit unsure of what it is in this release that you seem to like so much ...
Hmmm
#2569 posted by VoreLord [203.51.223.239] on 2004/09/18 06:22:59
I think it's just the overall support and improvements that you have made over time, and not just this release. I think the auto converting from Q2/Q3 format to Quake is very nice. just takes that extra step/prog out and makes it a more complete package
Aguire
#2570 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.20.90] on 2004/09/18 06:25:01
The Q3 support.
I've been wanting to use your BSP compilers for a while now, for the better error reporting etc... but since they did not import Q3 map files directly, I used DuBSP instead. (Got to thank Riot for his tools, too!)
I could have used a map converter before, of course, but you know how it is (ohm's law.. path of least resistance... )
Now that your BSP(s) have the same q2/3 importing as DuBSP, I can have the best of both worlds.
Sz_Getspace
#2571 posted by Ankhgod [213.76.15.224] on 2004/09/18 09:52:06
I'm building a map for quake 1. After adding some new monsters and brushes I get error after launching the map in quake (winquake, joequake). The error is "SZ_GetSpace: 8024 is > full buffer size". I get this error only after switching skill to 2 (means more monsters). Please help! Do I have to remove some entities? I wouldn't like to.
SZ_GetSpace
#2572 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.10] on 2004/09/18 10:40:19
Take a look at my engines and the readmegl at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k , they're specifically modified to fix this issue (and others).
AFAIK, the error is caused by having too many entities and events happening which cause the protocol between the server and client parts to overflow.
Typically this happens on higher skill levels since there are more action going on. The recently released Menkalinan had a similar problem.
I believe that either you'll have to cut down on entities or require a custom engine that has a higher limit.
Oops
#2573 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.152] on 2004/09/21 06:01:57
Found a serious bug in Light 1.36 that invalidated light data when using -onlyents option.
I've uploaded a new version 1.37 to http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k that hopefully fixes this.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Texture Scaling And Doing "The Right Thing(tm)"
#2574 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.125] on 2004/09/27 16:26:57
Ok chaps, I'm having a spot of bother when it comes to deciding whether or not to scale up my terrain textures for performance reasons.
I'm aware that the whole issue of scaled textures is a bit of a salty subject around here. Should I go with the aesthetic and keep the rock textures at 1:1; or should I use *gasp* double scale and maybe squeeze a bit of juice out of the old nag?
Well...
#2575 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/09/27 16:29:24
i really depends how carp it looks at 2x scaling... some textures scale better than others... best bet would be to experiment a bit...
Kinn
#2576 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/27 16:36:07
Also, it depends on how close the player is. If the player is kept 512 units away, then you would be more likely to get away with a scale of 2.
Also, I don't think you would get many complaints if the change in scale was appropriate and well thought out. Doing it randomly or on a global scale is a bit different.
I Should Add
#2577 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.125] on 2004/09/27 16:39:22
that I can't gauge an accurate reading of the wpoly's until I've fullvised the map (which I won't be doing until I've completely finished the map) so my question refers to a sort of "general case" scenario really. Those of you who have seen the early screenshots should have an idea of the extent of the terrain involved.
Necros, RPG
#2578 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.125] on 2004/09/27 16:51:38
Thanks. I guess a logical compromise would be to keep the flat ground texture at normal scale and apply double scale for the mountains - the problem is though, the player can walk over the mountain terrain at certain points, so I can't really avoid contact with the scaled textures all the time.
Worth bearing in mind though is that my only real problems with scaled textures are: a) the dynamic lighting issues, and b) the ugliness in software mode. Some custom engines have fixed point a), and of course in that case, point b) is irrelevant anyway.
Scaling And Tiling
#2579 posted by Preach [81.153.157.176] on 2004/09/27 18:30:43
I'd say go for the scaled look, it'll reduce the effect of tiling if the faces are large. A good rock texture should tile without looking especially odd, but over enough repeats the human eye is good at noticing the pattern. I'd say that combine that with the performance boost and the positives outweigh the negatives.
Preach Is Right,
#2580 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.73] on 2004/09/27 19:35:25
the best way I have found to avoid the pattern issue is to fire up Photoshop, use the filter/distort/twirl, and I recommend twice. Once clockwise, a second counterclockwise, so you will have three seemless textures that fit together to avoid repeats.
I would have just e-mailed you an example that I was working on over the weekend, but I have been having some problems with my e-mail.
If...
#2581 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/27 23:00:13
you want a rock texture to repeat over a large expanse, try making a larger rock texture. Say, 256x256.
Err...
#2582 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/27 23:31:21
256x256 is still repeated 16 times over a 1024x1024 surface.
Rpg:
#2583 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/28 00:21:07
oh, right, so i guess the solution is to make it 65536x65536. What was I thinking?
Metlslime:
#2584 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/28 00:58:51
No, that's just silly. The Quake map bounds only go to +/- 4096.
Thanks Guys
#2585 posted by Kinn [81.152.225.98] on 2004/09/28 12:33:59
I appreciate the comments :)
My rock texture is pretty big anyway (512x512) and I have decided to scale it 2x. I think it looks good even at close range actually :)
Packet_Overflow
#2586 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.152] on 2004/09/28 17:30:52
I always thought that this was related to the number of sounds that were being generated at the same time, and that when the maximum was breached, packet_overflow occured and the sound did not play.
I have areas of my map that are not generating large numbers of sounds but I get the PO message. I have a constant sky(?) howl, I have some water, no live monsters within the map (I have killed them all and have plenty of bodies), no doors/platforms operating, no nearby secrets, and I am not shooting at anything.
I am using Fitzquake. Any ideas?
Oh Yes...
#2587 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.152] on 2004/09/28 17:31:35
... and I have not yet done a full vis.
Mike
#2588 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.208] on 2004/09/28 18:06:17
It's not the sound overflowing, it's the amount of entities that are in view for the engine. Running a fullvis will probably help if the map isn't too open.
You could try one of my engines; they are specifically designed for this situation. Using WinQuake with the r_draworder 1 enabled, you'll see how much of the map that the engine thinks it has to render atm.
After fast/fullvis you'll see that less is in view and therefore r_speeds are lower and less packet overflows occur.
Aha!
#2589 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.152] on 2004/09/28 18:16:24
So, too many bodies (and gibs), and uncollected ammo/health, and visable doors all add to the problem?
And sound, or not to worry about that?
Is there a countable limit? I know I can't account for the gibs but I can certainly move doors, ammo, health etc.
Yes
#2590 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.51] on 2004/09/28 19:07:40
it's the message traffic between the server and the client (normally both are inside the same engine process) that gets overloaded due to limited message size and throughput. This can also cause the SZ_GetSpace ... error which aborts the engine.
There is also something called visedicts (visible edicts/entities) which can cause flickering/disappearing entities; the normal limit is 256 and I've raised it to 4k. Normal max edict limit is 600 and mine is 4k.
Normally you "hear" when there's a sound problem; doors open silently or during a fight, some monster sounds get muffled or disappear entirely. This is related to two max sound channel limits which I've also raised.
As you can see, there are several "countable" limits and it can be tricky to estimate them.
Hopefully, these problems disappear after fullvis.
Fullvis Vs Fastvis
#2591 posted by JPL [192.91.75.30] on 2004/09/29 02:09:43
I just would like to have further informations about compilation time for the two process, particularly concerning the running time ratio between fastvis and fullvis. If fastvis run 1mn, how time will run a fullvis process ?? Is there a precise ratio, or something like this ??
Thanks
Jpl
#2592 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/09/29 03:16:52
no, there is not.
if fastvis goes 1min, fullfis might go from 10 to 600 mins and more and less...
depends on how smart (vis wise) u built your level.
AguiRe
#2593 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.206.189] on 2004/09/29 03:35:57
I've just tried WinQuake and had no Packet_Overflow problems, so that is good.
I did find some Fullbrights that were not noticable in Fitzquake - that I can fix.
But I cannot jump so high in your WinQuake as I can in Fitzquake and this is important in this particular map. It is exactly 40 .map units. Are the engine physics different in this respect?
AguiRe
#2594 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.206.189] on 2004/09/29 04:05:21
Tried your GLQuake, also no packet_overflow problems. In addition, no noticable Fullbtights and the necessary jump is fine.
JPL
#2595 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.198] on 2004/09/29 07:13:16
Basically what Vondur said, although a longer fastvis usually indicates much longer fullvis. Conversely, if you've made a fullvis that took a long time, cutting down on the fastvis time will cut even more off the fullvis time (in percentage).
I also have a feeling that the higher the relationship between # portals/leafs is, the slower the fullvis will be. More than 3 often indicates a really slow session.
Mike
#2596 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.198] on 2004/09/29 07:20:52
AFAIK, I haven't touched the physics in either of my engines but I think I recall that there sometimes are small differences in what you can do.
Also, please remember that if you want the map to play well in normal engines, you must check them specifically. But using my engines during development can help with big maps, that's the basic idea. You can watch the console for warnings that indicate that you're exceeding some limit.
AguirRe
#2597 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/29 07:36:14
Well, if I understood correctly, there is no way to anticipate what will be the running time of a fullvis with fastvis running time.. And the resulting ratio fullvis/fastvis is at least 3 times longer... hmmmm .. with my latest map I guess fullvis will take many hours... OK, thanks for these crucial information..
Maybe
#2598 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.93] on 2004/09/29 08:09:38
I was unclear. It's not the fullvis/fastvis ratio I meant; it's the ratio between portals/leafs which you see early in the vis printout. However, I can't substantiate this really, just a feeling.
AFAIK, there's no obvious way to precalculate the fullvis time beforehand without actually doing an extra run just for the estimation ...
AguirRe
#2599 posted by JPL [192.91.75.29] on 2004/09/29 08:18:31
OK, I understand, I will see it "at time"... thanx
Detail Brushes In Quake 1
#2600 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/09/29 08:20:45
I recall there were some attempts to implement Quake 2-like detail brushes into the Quake 1 compilers. Have there been any attempts at implementing Quake 3-like detail brushes (which are far more useful) into Quake 1?
Jago
#2601 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/29 09:29:51
Those are already there. They're called func_wall.
R.P.G.
#2602 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/09/29 09:50:04
Don't be dense.
No
#2603 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/09/29 09:51:03
1) func_wall's don't cast shadows
2) using an brush-entity in the same manner as detail brushes are used in Q3 will result in you exceeding entity-related limits imposed by the engine VERY fast.
Also
#2604 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.125] on 2004/09/29 09:54:05
3) brush models are rendered very ineffeciently compared to world brushes, resulting in much higher wpolys, and other things like #clipnodes.
Kell, Jago, Kinn
#2605 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/29 10:02:44
Talk to a coder and he'll tell you the samething. You would need to rewrite the .bsp format to have Q3-style detail brushes work.
Yes
#2606 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/09/29 10:05:12
what rpg said and func_illusionary works too.
as for the shadows, use antilight dammit ;)
#2607 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/09/29 11:07:17
You would need to rewrite the .bsp format to have Q3-style detail brushes work.
I'm not arguing with that. But that's not what you said.
Funcs only work as a detail substitue in small, isolated places. And even then, they still add to the bmodel count and mess with the lighting if, for example, you want to make all your protruding light fixtures detail. It would likewise become impractical, or at least difficult and undesireable, to make all of the faceted psuedo curved architecture in a map funcs.
For e.g. a terrain map, Q3 detail makes the whole process easier to implement with vastly reduced compile times. Funcs are - take my word for it - not an option in this case.
Yes, detail isn't going to happen because of the bsp format, but that's no justification for declaring funcs a perfectly acceptable alternative anyway. Because in many cases, they're not.
...
#2608 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/09/29 11:26:27
Yes, detail isn't going to happen because of the bsp format, but that's no justification for declaring funcs a perfectly acceptable alternative anyway. Because in many cases, they're not.
Of course they're not. But they're the closest you're going to get in all practical situations. I was assuming Jago was familiar with the limitations of using bmodel ents, and thus he could make an informed decision regarding when to use them and when not to.
RPG
#2609 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/09/29 12:00:59
The fact that can sometimes manage to pull off some impressive geometry does not mean I am an engine expert :) As a matter of fact, I am pretty clueless when it comes to the inner workings of the Quake engine (or Unreal for that matter, even though I released 10 maps for that)...
I Was Wondering The Other Day
#2610 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.119] on 2004/09/29 12:14:24
about bmodels and lighting. There is a place in my map where I have a brush model "fence" thing sticking up out of the terrain. Now, it had to be bmodel obviously, because you just don't want to go around arbitrarily jutting other brushes into triangulated terrain, but of course I don't get the shadows cast. Now I'm not too bothered about that, but I wondered if any light gurus (*hint* *hint* Aguirre ;) )had considered the possibility of making selected bmodels cast shadows. Considering how it would only seem to involve changes to the light.exe, and not to the .bsp format or engine, I was just wondering if it would be a theoretically possible thing to implement, or not.
*Hint* Brushes
#2611 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.3] on 2004/09/29 14:06:02
is that what you mean ...?
MIke:
#2612 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/09/29 17:33:20
I did find some Fullbrights that were not noticable in Fitzquake - that I can fix.
Ah, this must be the bug in fitzquake that doesn't show color 255 as fullbright, even though winquake treats it as fullbright. Fixed in the next version, BTW :)
Metlslime
#2613 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.206.178] on 2004/09/29 19:03:30
I didn't know about that. And that makes it easier for me now as Texmex did not correct one fullbright pixel in one of the problem textures even though it corrected the others.
Now, if I can just clear this packet_overflow problem a 'new' SP map is in the offing ...
Engine Limits...
#2614 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/09/30 19:17:16
I am building my Q1SP in 2 parts for faster compile times and general convinience. Today I have realised that if I put both pieces together now and properly detail places which are missing detail, I will easily hit ~3500 brushes (without clip brushes and such). And this is Q1. AND both "pieces" are still missing many rooms. This puts my rough estimate of the final brushcount to 4000-4200 brushes. What kind of problems should I be expecting when I will eventually start merging both pieces together?
Jago
#2615 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.56] on 2004/09/30 20:57:35
Difficult to say with only those figures. # brushes is no problem for the compiler and brushes don't even exist in the engine (transformed into other objects).
Typical problems are clipnodes (especially if the map leaks) and marksurfaces, both related to complexity of architecture. Then comes entity overflows and vis problems if you're not careful with layout or brush amount/alignment.
Try to make complete builds as early as possible to get indication of problems. Then post here to get tips on how to proceed.
Jago
#2616 posted by Kinn [81.152.112.69] on 2004/10/01 05:30:05
My current Q1 map is around 7700 brushes and like aguirRe says, the brushcount doesn't really matter for the compiler - it's what the compiler turns those brushes into that can be a problem. Without clipbrushes, my #clipnodes is around 50,000. With loads of clipbrushes applied to out-of-reach areas I can bring the #clipnodes down to around 30,000.
#marksurfaces is another important figure. The limit here is again 32k, but you can exceed this limit in many engines and not have any problems.
Yet Again Jago
#2617 posted by Hrimfaxi [83.92.1.72] on 2004/10/01 06:57:35
The map I showed pics of the other day is about 51oo brushes at the moment. It was started by joining 5-6 speedmaps I had lying around, a bit like you would like to do.
But as Kinn mentions it's the number of #clipnodes and #marksurfaces that matters.
Kinn mentions that #marksurfaces is limited to 32k, but some engines still can run it.
So far I have 41048 #marksurfaces and the map still loads in all the engines I tried it on, including the orig. GLQuake.exe.
Don't know about software Q since I cant run that!
Kinn,
#2618 posted by necros [142.150.5.190] on 2004/10/01 11:23:45
for the fence... i'm not sure what the technical problems might be, but you could try this:
rebuild the fence inside the func_wall, (make sure the texture alignment is identical to rule out z fighting) except cut off the bottom of the fence brushes just before they hit the terrain to stop them from splitting up the brushes.
i remember a while back, there was an article in pcgamer where some dude who mapped for half life gave "tips" to help map and he mentioned that in the desert maps, he had raised the catii 1 unit above the ground to not split up the terrain yet keep the shadows.
i remember suggesting that here before but it was not greeted warmly, so there may be technical aspects to this method that are negative... someone want to add to that?
On A Similar Vein
#2619 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.253] on 2004/10/01 12:23:00
Single room map, player_start, single rectangular brush touching the floor but not the walls or ceiling = 210 clipnodes and 48 marksurfaces.
Add one default light = 125 clipnodes and 48 marksurfaces.
What principle is at work here and is it a useable feature when considering excessive clipnodes?
Necros
#2620 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.238] on 2004/10/01 12:58:56
Ah thanks - I'd forgotten about that technique. I may just leave it as purely func_wall though, considering how the lighting in that particular area is fairly flat (also I'd imagine having a world model fence there would give vis a fair bit to chew on ;) ).
Marksurfaces
#2621 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.30] on 2004/10/01 13:32:26
I'll try to dig a bit deeper what the issue is about marksurfaces. At least I now think that the warning about them being >32k is probably not correct.
Marksurfaces 2
#2622 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.8] on 2004/10/01 18:09:31
The warning for marksurfaces <32k seems right after all, but there's another limit that should be checked too; #faces must also be <32k in normal engines. I've now added this warning to tools/engines.
I haven't been able to find out why some maps can exceed the 32k marksurfaces limit and still run OK in normal engines, it appears to be just "luck" ...
Compiling Terms
#2623 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.4] on 2004/10/02 05:50:00
that might be interesting: http://www.gamedesign.net/node/vie...
QC Question
#2624 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.104] on 2004/10/03 16:44:25
Hmmm...I can't seem to call ambientsound() midway through the game - it only seems to work at level start - is it supposed to be like that?
Yep.
#2625 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/03 17:35:53
limitation of the engine. :P
there's a hacky way to get around it... frikaC explained it to me a while ago.
basically you can use my code:
float SVC_SPAWNSTATICSOUND = 29;
void(float soundnum, vector org, float ambvolume, float atten) spawnambient =
{
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, SVC_SPAWNSTATICSOUND);
WriteCoord(MSG_ALL, org_x);
WriteCoord(MSG_ALL, org_y);
WriteCoord(MSG_ALL, org_z);
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, soundnum);
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, ambvolume * 255); //translate this into a value between 0 and 255...
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, atten * 64);
};
soundnum, in this case, is actually the numerical value of a precached sound. the number is equivalent to when it was precached. so the first precached sound is 0, then 1,2,3, etc...
look through the qc files and you'll find the first sounds to be precached are the ones found in weapons.qc.
ambvolume * 255 is so you can use a 0 to 1 value and it will be converted into a number between 0 and 255.
same for atten, but in this case, it needs to be multiplied by 64.
don't ask why... i don't really know. something to do with bytes and whatever... 0 to 255 is 8bit or something, a short is 64... meh. :P
Blimey
#2626 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.104] on 2004/10/03 18:06:31
Thanks necros! That's some pretty interesting stuff there. So, to clarify, I would have to make sure that the required sound is always precached in world.qc, (preferably near the beginning, so I can keep track of it more easily) for it to have a consistent soundnum.
Something else I did try, and I'm not sure if this is good practice or not, is just calling the regular sound() function on a looping .wav - once the sound starts, it seems to loop automatically ad infinitum, which is more or less what the ambientsound() function does is it not?
.
#2627 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/03 18:59:50
yes, you can do it that way, however, when the player is too far away from the sound emitting entity, if it is not an ambientsound(), the game doesn't bother to keep track of it in some way, so the sound will stop playing. (i think this happens when the ent's volume reaches 0 from attenuation) so when you get near to the ent again, the sound won't play.
another hacky way of doing it would be to have a looping sound. find out the exact length of the loop up to the second decimal.
ex: length = 2.39 seconds.
use the play function to start the sound, and keep restarting the sound every 2.39 seconds without the autoloop feature.
the sound will be interrupted if the player goes into the console or menu or whatever though. also, if host_framerate isn't 0, then the rate at which the sound is called will be different as well.
you could also leave the autoloop markers in the soundfile in, and keep overriding the sound on it's own channel everytime but that's just ugly.
Necros
#2628 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.104] on 2004/10/03 20:02:56
Thanks again. The best solution I guess would be the one in your first post, which incidently I wouldn't call particularly "hacky" - it's just making use of an already existing network message that is otherwise unused in the QC.
Stereo Wavs
#2629 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 14:04:40
Do stereo .wav files play correctly in Quake 1? Or should I turn them into mono?
Stereo Might Still Play But...
#2630 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2004/10/04 14:05:58
use mono.
Point Off Plane Error
#2631 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.253] on 2004/10/04 16:41:44
Nothing in aguirRe's Tool Tips
Can someone give me an explanation. I have just run into this error after adding the final brushwork to FMB100. The brushes are not important and I can leave them in or take them out (although it looks much pretier with them!)
It is only a warning and I can not find any problem in the vicinity of the brushwork e.g. random clip_brushes, non-solid brushes etc.
But I would like to understand what is happening.
Metlslime
#2632 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 17:13:03
ok.
Mike
#2633 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 17:16:59
I think I remember getting this in Bastion at some point; is it associated with any hull in particular? IIRC, it didn't seem to cause any detrimental effects when I had it.
Point Off Plane
#2634 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.12] on 2004/10/04 18:14:45
The first thing qbsp does to a brush face in the map file is to transform the three points into an infinite plane. These three points are all on this plane with only minor float precision offsets.
If I understand it correctly, qbsp then starts to figure out how this plane is limited (clipped) against the other planes in the brush. In this process, more points (vertexes) will appear in the positions where the planes meet.
When these new points are checked against the original plane, they might be slightly off and when the distance exceeds a certain limit (0.05), a warning is printed.
In my latest compilers, I've added an automatic healing of such points, i.e. adjusting them to the plane. It appears to help a bit, but I'm uncertain of the theory here ...
In any case it's usually rather easy to find the problem spot and align the vertexes, at least in hull 0.
AguirRe - A Question/request
#2635 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 18:35:55
In qbsp, I get a warning during LoadMapFile:
*** WARNING 03: Line 60471: Brush with duplicate plane
would it be possible to print the origin/location of this brush, so that I can chase it down?
Those Go Away
#2636 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.86] on 2004/10/04 18:53:26
with a one button click if you use GTKRadiant (sniff, sniff), Hammer user!
Duplicate Plane
#2637 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.127] on 2004/10/04 19:10:58
AFAIK it's an editor error; you shouldn't be able to produce such a thing. Therefore I doubt that you can fix it manually in the editor other than deleting/recreating the entire brush and hoping the editor won't do it again when generating the map file.
Also, at the time of discovery, the location of the brush isn't known yet. The extra plane will just silently be dropped with no side effects.
Ah Cool
#2638 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 19:32:03
so I can safely ignore it?
Yes
#2639 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.217] on 2004/10/04 20:00:32
and I forgot to mention that if you can enable some brush numbering scheme in Hammer that will add line comments to each brush/entity, you might be able to backtrack from line number to editor brush that way.
In QuArK I can do that and I guess GtkRadiant has something similar.
Btw Kinn, your choice of emoticon is a bit odd ...
AguirRe
#2640 posted by Kinn [81.152.168.244] on 2004/10/04 21:20:13
and I forgot to mention that if you can enable some brush numbering scheme in Hammer that will add line comments to each brush/entity, you might be able to backtrack from line number to editor brush that way.
Hmmm...I don't think I can do that. Can any other Hammer users confirm this?
your choice of emoticon is a bit odd ...
lol, the wink? I dunno, it kind of makes sense to me, almost as if qbsp is taunting me with a wry "I know something you don't know" warning, without actually telling me the source of the problem.
^_~
Winking?
#2641 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.86] on 2004/10/04 22:18:22
I thought the little guy was leaning down to his left side to snort a line. I guess your interpertation makes more sense.
Interpretation
#2642 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.86] on 2004/10/04 22:20:10
er, I was humming 'dosey dotes' while writing that.
Kinn
#2643 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.40] on 2004/10/05 07:00:28
The classic examples of that would probably be Mixed face contents or Bad contents.
Somewhere in your 10k brush map, there is something bad. Go figure ...
GtkRadiant
#2644 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.244] on 2004/10/10 06:09:38
I've just downloaded the latest version and it seems to have support for Quake1. It loads .map files and shows the Quake1 entity list. I haven't tried the compile routines as I cannot get the editor to show the textures.
Does anyone know how this is done - there is nothing in the Help files on Quake1 texturing.
If Memory Serves Me Correct
#2645 posted by VoreLord [203.51.206.235] on 2004/10/10 06:57:09
Place the .wad file in your id1 folder. I think that's it, I don't have it installed anymore. Unlike the earlier versions, 1.5 will read the textures straight from the .wad file.
For what it's worth, I would use GTK 1.4 or earlier rather than 1.5, a bit more messing around to get it set up, but far less buggy etc, and IMO, just better to use.
FMB
#2646 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.56.234] on 2004/10/10 11:14:21
I have a similar problem with GTK1.5. I have the .wad files in the id1 folder, but when I compiled the map nothing showed up.
When I asked about it, they said to include the path to the .wad file in theworldspawn, but that did nothing either. So, I still dont know how to get it to work.
GtkRadiant
#2647 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.163] on 2004/10/10 12:17:59
Thanks, that's a start anyway.
Zwiffle: are you compiling from within GtkR or are you using some sort of 'tweak'?
I am still using BspEditor with BspBuild and have no problems apart from using the 3D view, which is extremely slow (I have a decent system). Also, you have to be careful not to hold your finger on the forward/backward key because the keyboard buffer fills faster that the screen can draw and there seems to be no way of stopping it moving once it's started.
Hence, I am looking at changing editors.
Is There A Function For That????????!!!!!!111111
#2648 posted by frogegg [213.118.161.39] on 2004/10/13 10:18:32
Ok, i'm using quark and don't know how to get a "quake" key to turn into a key card.
Bleh
#2649 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/13 10:23:09
do not use quark
Froggeg
#2650 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/13 10:36:28
It depends on worldtype value into the worldspawn of the map ... see below.. So to have a jey card instead of a key use value 2
"worldtype" "#" // Describes time of environment (changes appearance/name of keys)
// 0 == Medieval (medieval)
// 1 == Runic (metal)
// 2 == Present (base)
You can take a look at http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak... for further details about QuakeC specifications..
Worldtype
#2651 posted by metlslime [24.19.9.115] on 2004/10/13 20:10:55
Medieval (medieval)
really medieval?
Metlslime
#2652 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 02:41:53
really medieval?
Yes, I guess it can be considered as really medieval... but for sure it depends on the mapper's creativity...
Only Von Can Do...
#2653 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2004/10/14 02:49:40
...medievile
Distrans
#2654 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 03:07:25
I didn't know that Vondur map for medievil game... it's a big surprise... Does he map with QuArK for this game ???
Cough
#2655 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 03:51:34
/me murders jplambert
Vondur
#2656 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 04:09:44
So Quark or not Quark ???
Bleh
#2657 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 04:31:29
/me destroys jplambert
Vondur
#2658 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 04:42:20
You didn't answer Von !!! ;))
Pfft
#2659 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/14 08:10:45
I do all my mapping in Notepad, except near the end, where I finish it with a praxinoscope.
It still produces better results than QuArk.
^_~
Cough
#2660 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 08:11:57
/me finishes Kinn with proctoscope dammit
>___<
.
#2661 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/14 08:13:29
/me gives Vondur a "wink"
Just A Basic Question
#2662 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 08:32:21
Why many of you are hating QuArK ?? I use this tool and it seems not to be bad as far as you say, so wtf ??
Bleh
#2663 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 08:36:40
quark cannot work with grid properly and there are much better editors on this planet. why to torture yourself when there are mighty alternatives?
JPLambert
#2664 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/14 08:38:57
Have you tried other editors? It's difficult to see suckiness unless you try the alternatives.
Yay
#2665 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 08:42:15
looks like i've found my spiritual brother - it's kinn!
thanks to practoscopes of the world!
<__>
^_^
#2666 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/14 08:45:34
/me hugs Vondur
OK
#2667 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 08:58:30
I never used other editors (only QuArK at this time), and I've never encountered any grid problems with this tool... Perhaps with more experience, and other editors test, I could change my point of view... Anyway, thanks for your point of view...
JPL
#2668 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.4] on 2004/10/14 10:04:24
If you think QuArK works well for you, then everything's fine. I've used QuArK for several years without any major problems and while it certainly has its issues, so do other editors.
The debate of editors is often similar to a religious debate.
The only exception is Qoole, which I wholeheartedly do not recommend ...
Does Anyone Remember...
#2669 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/10/14 10:12:36
...The DeathMatch Maker?
Heh
#2670 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/14 10:25:52
the only person who used DMM for several years was QMD... he ended sadly... ;)
AguirRe
#2671 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/14 10:47:47
I agree with you, all editors have its own advantages and problems, and that's the mappers's job to find turnaround in order to release good maps..
BTW, I understand that some mappers can prefer an editor more than one other... but it's not a good reason, IMHO, to do "lobbying" against QuArK ;D
DeathMatch Maker
#2672 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.190] on 2004/10/14 11:39:23
I think Mark Shan used it for his huge Q2SP maps, e.g. Progetto Genoma.
What Was Wrong With That Praxinoscope...
#2673 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/10/14 12:15:31
since I tried that example everyone is kiddin' about it, practoscope, proctoscope.
I don't mind, but Jean Plateau deserve a better answer than his invention sealed forever in Quake!
I bought DeatMatchMaker Quake1 on Ebay for $3,00
Now wait untill these boardsurfers claim it "unworthy".
But my question:
does it make sense trying to convert the Quake1 monsters to Quake2?
Or is it just whisfull thinking?
...
#2674 posted by necros [142.150.5.91] on 2004/10/14 13:06:10
i would play quake2 if there were q1 monsters in it + [i]good[/i] maps.
D'oh. :P
#2675 posted by necros [142.150.5.91] on 2004/10/14 13:06:57
also, regarding quark, you really need to try gtkr or wc to see the difference.
quark has it's strengths, but those other two just have more...
Necros
#2676 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/15 02:15:41
Well, while I need for sure to test other editors to clearly have a good idea of these differences (differences that everybody seems to be convinced here), I just can say that QuArK works fine for me today... I think it's clearly the most important for many mappers: having an editor that works fine in order to have fun while mapping... even you need to fight against some "bugs".... But I guess it's not enough for most you... I'm not so "perfectionniste" ... ;P
Q1 Tools Update
#2677 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.203] on 2004/10/15 05:47:55
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are major speedup of Light, increased model capacity and improved edict check in both engines and many other fixes/improvements. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
JPL,
#2678 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/10/15 11:41:08
i'm not knocking quark. i used it to make four maps, so i do know what it's like.
Re: Q1 Tools Update
#2679 posted by necros [66.185.84.208] on 2004/10/15 11:44:56
when he says major speedup of Light he means major. like 4 to 5 *Times* faster on some maps. a map i'm working on used to take 32 minutes to light. down to about 7 minutes.
it mostly affects maps with lots of spot lights and delay 1,2,5 lights.
it's one of those things that is really worth your time to download. it makes fine tuning lighting much less painful. ^_^
Yep
#2680 posted by Hrimfaxi [83.92.1.72] on 2004/10/15 12:56:29
same here a map took 56 min before now it takes 20. I never use the fast option anymore since a normal -soft -extra compile only takes a few seconds more.
AguirRe is the man!
Thanks Guys
#2681 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.44] on 2004/10/15 13:57:55
I've used the new Fade Gate feature on many different maps and it actually works well for almost any map, no matter what lights are in there.
Typical speedup is about 2-15 times faster without any noticable visual degradation.
Yup
#2682 posted by Kinn [81.152.115.112] on 2004/10/15 14:04:18
On my new map, the -fast light compile used to take 25 minutes. Now it barely takes 5. AguirRe rocks.
Uh Oh...
#2683 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/16 20:44:14
*** ERROR 73: Vertexes in map exceed 65535
uh oh... will sealing the map reduce vertices? i am inclined to believe so because the error appeared right after qbsp failed to fill the outside...
Yes
#2684 posted by DaZ [80.43.72.63] on 2004/10/16 21:57:50
fix0r teh leak0r and you will be good2go.
Mapping Standards
#2685 posted by Shadowalker [207.154.80.175] on 2004/10/17 01:39:41
I'm looking for a mapper(s) to help me work out stanards for my CTF, arena, and normal dm within my mod. So, I have something that mappers will like to create with. Contact me through the javascript link on my website.
http://planetquake.com/ud/
as
Necros
#2686 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.88] on 2004/10/17 04:36:41
What DaZ said; most values go down pretty much when the map is sealed.
Btw, if all goes well, I might have found a way to increase #clipnodes from 32k to almost 64k in the engines.
...
#2687 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/17 13:53:23
wow! that would be great! i haven't clipped anything yet, so naturally clipnodes is over the normal limit and all my bmodels have become non solid. :P
it would be a nice way to continue testing gameplay before i finish clipping stuff. ;)
Clipnodes
#2688 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/10/17 14:05:37
Now you've lost me. My understanding was that clip brushes are used to force the players/monsters to not reach specific areas in a map. What else do clip brushes do? Sounds like I am missing something here...
Well,
#2689 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/17 14:08:48
well, say you have a big swath of terrain. this terrain is bumpy and lumpy. all these angles take up clipnodes.
now, you put a big clipbrush over all the terrain. that means in hull1 and hull2 (but not hull0) the terrain is completly filled in where the clipbrush is, therefore less clipnodes are required.
same goes for details in walls and floors that the player can never get to anyway. you can always clip those to reduce clipnodes.
Jago
#2690 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.76] on 2004/10/17 14:27:38
You've mixed up clip brushes and clipnodes. The former are what you manually put in the map to block (or help) player/monster movements.
The latter is automatically generated by qbsp when transforming your map into a bsp that the engine can load. As necros points out, the more complex geometry, the more clipnodes. However, you can use clip brushes to reduce # clipnodes by doing what necros describes.
Check out my ToolTips document at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . There is more info regarding clipnodes and hulls.
Clip Brushes
#2691 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.24] on 2004/10/17 18:49:55
Just to support what is being said, fmb100 was tens of thousands of clip_nodes over the limit. If you have a look at the .map file you will see that I have some massive clipbrushes over the tops of the terrain that I thought players would not want to climb over, and also over some of the fancy ceiling areas. If you walk about on the roofs of the buildings you will hit some clipbrushes.
Clip_nodes are now just over 31K and therefore not causing a problem.
Maybe A Wad Toppic Question...
#2692 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/10/17 22:34:02
I downloaded Texmex and am trying to convert the Tenebrea textures for Quake1 to Quake2.
As I converted the *.pgn textures to *.wall, all the maps I try to compile shut down of a GLQuake error.
How do i convert these textures to a Quake2 wad?
Uh Oh 2...
#2693 posted by necros [142.150.5.87] on 2004/10/19 12:22:37
marksurfaces... these are visible faces, right?
i'm guessing 51k marksurfaces is too high to run in glquake?
also, visleafs @ 9200 (8192 (?)limit): will performing a level 4 vis reduce these? (it's only fast vis atm)
lightmaps: at 78 atm. limit is 64(?)... how would i reduce these? is my only option to remove lights?
I Can't Say
#2694 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.92] on 2004/10/19 13:43:42
exactly what marksurfaces are, but in normal engines they cannot exceed 32k without trashing internal heap memory with more or less random/erroneous results.
Vis leafs in excess of 8k will most likely crash normal engines and running fast/fullvis doesn't matter; map complexity is the problem.
As for lightmaps, check out my ToolTips doc. Exceeding 64 will immediately generate the dreaded AllocBlock: full error in most GL engines. Removing lights won't help at all; it's the total size of visible faces together with texture scaling.
If you send me the zipped map+wad, maybe I can see if there are any easy ways to cut down on the numbers.
Looking For Some Mapping Articles...
#2695 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/10/19 21:51:02
I wonder if anyone here happens to know of any mapping articles/guides/etc which deal specifically with creating "situations" and interesting gameplay moments in 3D games?
Fuck...
#2696 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/10/19 23:32:43
the map isn't even passed half done yet. :(
i guess there's no real point in your taking a look at it since it will obviously need to be split into two maps.
Necros,
#2697 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/20 03:44:41
lol, how many brushes just out of interest?
Jago
#2698 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/10/20 10:11:11
None that I know of. I usually find that it's best to just sit down and brainstorm. Look at other cool situations for reference (Kell has had some nice ones).
Not that my maps usually have interesting situations, mind you. Probably the most interesting gameplay in could.bsp was the slanted crate.
AguirRe
#2699 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.215] on 2004/10/20 14:42:59
I have a suspicion that you may not be receiving some recent emails of mine. Did you get today's mail?
Yes
#2700 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.218] on 2004/10/20 14:55:09
I got one, but I found the reply a bit odd; it seemed to refer to an earlier mail today that I probably haven't got. Please re-send if in doubt.
AguirRe
#2701 posted by Kinn [217.43.54.123] on 2004/10/20 16:47:31
done.
Packet Overflow
#2702 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/22 07:29:51
I'm about to release a new map, but I'm currently fighting with packet overflow message during the game, that "troubles" sound rendering... I know it comes from the sound channel limitation of the engine, due to too much thing to perform...
So my question is: while a map without monsters is clean (no problem), how can I prevent packet overflow troubleshooting after I added monsters ?? Is there a method, or something to check in order to prevent this fucking problem ??
Bleh
#2703 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/10/22 07:32:15
more proper visblocking, less monsters, less ambient sound sources...
JPL
#2704 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/10/22 08:09:10
If you've fullvised your map, then you've got a problem - it you haven't fullvised yet, then don't worry about it just yet.
Kinn
#2705 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/10/22 09:00:02
For the moment I just fastvised the map (fullvised preview test ran at least for 10 hours /8( ...) so, if you're right, and I guess you are, the problem will "self-disappear"... cool...
Thx
RPG,
#2706 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.186] on 2004/10/22 15:32:03
just a wild out of nowhere guess, is could.bsp named after that most awesomest tune in the Alice in Chains discography?
HeadThump
#2707 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/10/22 15:47:54
I shall quote:
This map is dedicated to all that could have been, but never was, and all that should have been, but never will be.
ohmigosh so goth.
The Map Is On My Drive
#2708 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.12] on 2004/10/22 16:08:19
but somewhere a long the line I've erased the text file. many apologizes
JPL,
#2709 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.12] on 2004/10/22 16:10:45
the general level design advice you are looking for can be found here: http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLa...
Lights
#2710 posted by Speed [213.158.10.5] on 2004/10/23 01:59:12
any1 got experience of lighting level with lights that go thru walls? (any geometry)
can have omni and spotlights and define radius
Speed
#2711 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/10/23 07:59:28
That happens in old compilers before the community coders fixed it.
From your post it's unclear if you're experiencing a problem or if you actually want to achieve this effect.
#2712 posted by Speed [213.158.8.120] on 2004/10/23 12:21:10
looking for recommendations, preferably from someone with experience (maybe someone made levels for engines where light doesnt cast shadows?)
and forget about quake plz, its for another game
Speed
#2713 posted by Kinn [217.44.228.98] on 2004/10/23 13:49:50
Could you be more vague? We wouldn't want anyone actually understanding what you mean now, would we? ^_~
Speed
#2714 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/10/23 14:14:48
Well if you're into looking at code, you could try looking at the changes that were made in the Q1 and Q2 compilers that stopped the light from "leaking" into adjacent rooms. Otherwise, I really don't know how to help you with your problem. Try programming some anti-lights, maybe?
#2692
#2715 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/10/23 16:20:17
Import textures in Wally. Made them 64x64, 8/256 colours. Load them in Quark and start game. Q3bsp won't compile, but as soon as I change my own texture for the ones in Quake everything goes fine?
What goes wrong? I just wanted to add some Q1 textures to Quake2.
Or is it already done before?
Deathmatch Maker?
#2716 posted by MadFox [84.31.152.41] on 2004/10/27 13:59:00
I'm a little confused. I bought DM-Maker for Quake1. Now opening the program it leads to a texeditor for Q1, but the submaps are all Q2 submaps.
Then compiling a Q1map it wants to export Q2 md2 maps.
Strange behaviour for a good editor program.
The site for the program is down.
MadFox.
#2717 posted by Kinn [217.44.228.125] on 2004/10/27 15:59:30
Oh please God no.
Don't tell me you paid money for that.
Strange behaviour for a good editor program.
Somewhere, someone has your money right now and is laughing. At you. Sorry if I sound blunt, but just download GTK (it's free!) and be done with it.
Neh1m4 Source
#2718 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.234] on 2004/10/30 17:46:20
Does anyone have the Damaul neh1m4 (Grind Core) source map for Nehahra? I've tried to download it from his PQ site but the links don't seem to work anymore.
And I Quoth
#2719 posted by pope [207.216.236.96] on 2004/11/04 06:44:32
"...DMM is the shit of my life" - QMD - RIP 2004
AguiRe
#2720 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.218] on 2004/11/04 10:42:00
has the Neh1m4 source matter been resolved?
No,
#2721 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.13] on 2004/11/04 11:58:09
I'd appreciate any help in the matter.
Okay,
#2722 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.204] on 2004/11/04 12:22:36
when I get home tonight, I'll hook an old hard drive up that should have it.
#2719
#2723 posted by necros [142.150.107.117] on 2004/11/04 13:40:47
hm...
Sorry, AquiRe
#2724 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.169] on 2004/11/05 01:18:48
The Damaul map wasn't on my old drive. Would a decompilation be acceptable? BSPC, which I use, only mangles some of the liquid brushes touching non liquid surfaces. Otherwise the .maps are accurate.
Thanks
#2725 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.173] on 2004/11/05 05:06:48
for trying. I'm aware of the decompile alternative but it won't help me; it's the original entity section I'm after.
Arguire
#2726 posted by DaZ [80.43.74.95] on 2004/11/05 08:11:20
I swear there is a bsp compiler that has a command line argument that dumps all the ents in the .map to a seperate file if thats what your after? Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me remember which compiler it is :/ Sorry I cant be more helpful...
Err
#2727 posted by DaZ [80.43.74.95] on 2004/11/05 08:12:01
that would be, "dumps all ents in the *BSP* file"
Grabbing Ents
#2728 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2004/11/05 08:46:23
Adquedit will export all entities from a bsp into a text file(and will import them back afterwards if you wanted to do the equivalent of a -entsonly compile without the original map source)
Thanks For The
#2729 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.218] on 2004/11/05 09:08:40
suggestions, my own BspInfo utility can extract entities also, but it won't help in this case. The original entity section is lost if I can't find the map source. The current ent section in the bsp is crippled compared to the original.
EntEd
#2730 posted by Megazoid [194.168.3.4] on 2004/11/05 09:59:52
*tries to help, but probably makes an ass of himself*
Erm... EntEd ?
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
FOUND THE BUG ....Not All Parts Of The Map Get Lit
#2731 posted by codeboy [64.47.34.180] on 2004/11/09 12:02:50
Its in all clients. See screenshots of day\nite cycling in action. Fix for this
is on website in news
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/skunkw...
Holy Shit.
#2732 posted by necros [142.150.107.94] on 2004/11/09 12:11:11
holy shit.
Holy Shit
#2733 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/11/09 12:18:37
holy shit
Wholly Shit
#2734 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/09 17:39:07
Uh, I mean, Holy Shit!
OMG
#2735 posted by DaZ [80.43.73.203] on 2004/11/09 17:39:18
Airquake!!!!!!!!!
Nehahra Engine
#2736 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.248] on 2004/11/13 04:58:15
Would there be a general interest in me releasing an updated Nehahra engine?
It would basically contain a merge of the original 2.54 engine and my Enhanced GLQuake features, i.e. hardware gamma support and general increased capacity/robustness.
RE: Nehahra Engine
#2737 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/11/13 07:33:39
LordHavoc was one of the coders responcible for Nehahra and his Darkplaces engine has full Nehahra support.
AquiRe
#2738 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/11/13 09:11:21
I would be interested if you had an option to revert the new particle effects back to the classic Quake ones. Other than that, it doesn't really matter a lot to me.
But it might be useful to other engine moders for some Nehahra engine source to be released, since the original never was.
mmmm... Nehahra FitzQuake...
Nehahra...
#2739 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.88] on 2004/11/13 17:26:13
I am theoretically interested in supporting nehahra in fitzquake. However, the prospect of having to support a seperate network protocol is sort of a turn-off.
RPG
#2740 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.170] on 2004/11/14 08:35:07
I've changed the trail effects slightly (they were rather thin before) and now you can turn them off via the menu, but as for now you can't revert to vanilla GLQ style.
Btw, the 2.54 source is available from the Nehahra site. Otherwise it would've been a bit difficult for me to make the merge ...
Thanks for the input. If anyone is interested, just let me know.
Need A Little Help
#2741 posted by mrlenguini [136.165.68.106] on 2004/11/15 09:21:27
I'm need someone to look at a level I'm working on, it's still pretty early on but I need to finalize some stuff in it before I can move on. This is my first level so I'm having a hard time working out the details of it. If anyone is interested in giving some constructive critisism or even working with on it for a bit drop me an email. I'll explain everything then. Thanks.
Sure
#2742 posted by Blitz [24.218.84.255] on 2004/11/15 20:22:56
I'll take a look at it for you.
send to teh_blitz@comcast.net -- and send it as a .zip or .rar please.
Me Too
#2743 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/11/16 00:18:06
My email is dan.naumov@gmail.com
Color The Light
#2744 posted by GunToten [12.15.146.147] on 2004/11/19 20:58:41
Hey i want the lights in my map to be different colors, but i can't figure out how. If anyone knows can you send me an email at Adudas0817@yahoo.com
Thanks!!
Heh
#2745 posted by Vondur [81.195.21.179] on 2004/11/20 04:26:19
what game?
use google and look for the tutorials...
AguirRe
#2746 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/20 16:04:55
Have you received my recent emails (last few days)? I have had one of them bounce, but it should have been resent.
Kinn
#2747 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.191] on 2004/11/20 18:10:32
The last I've got from you is dated Nov 19th 14:08 and is a reply to my initial comments. Since then I've sent you several emails regarding the skybox orientation issue. Have you received them?
AguirRe
#2748 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/21 05:49:28
Yes, I seem to have received the skybox emails ok, and I sent replies to each of them as I received them, so I guess there are at least three of my emails which you haven't got yet :(
Looking back over the skybox emails, and my comments, I think the general consensus is that DarkPlaces is doing it wrong, and FitzQuake/Nehahra/Quake2/3DSMax is doing it correctly. If we could get all the custom engines to use the correct convention, then it would be problem solved.
But getting all the engine coders to agree on a standard is the real trick, isn't it? ;)
Personally, if I could just get DarkPlaces to use the "correct" orientation/naming convention, I would be a happy bunny. I'm not really bothered about the other engines that do it differently (Tomaz/Telejano etc.)
I Agree
#2749 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.75] on 2004/11/21 06:28:37
to your conclusion.
I still haven't got any replies though ... Please try using one of my other email accounts.
Skybox Update
#2750 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/21 07:33:15
just been speaking to LordHavoc in #tf and DP now does the correct orientation, so as far as I am concerned, the problem has been solved.
Great
#2751 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.72] on 2004/11/21 07:59:50
Now you'll just have to move the sun ...
Nah
#2752 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/21 08:30:41
I'll just alter the skybox
.Wad Manipulation On A Mac
#2753 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/11/21 09:04:17
I'm trying to help a Mac user via e-mail. He's trying to extract the textures from RPGDM1.bsp and put them back into the original .wad names. He says he can't find any .wad manipulation programs for the Mac. Does anyone know of any programs I could suggest to him?
Is Emulation
#2754 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.220] on 2004/11/21 10:16:12
an option? If so, he'll have a larger selection of tools to choose from. Speed shouldn't be an issue here.
Just Found This
#2755 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.220] on 2004/11/21 10:20:37
on Google: http://developer.chaoticbox.com/qu...
Fitzquake Crash
#2756 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/21 13:44:27
Ok, my map is now under the edicts limit, and static ents limit. However, FitzQuake still won't load it. I get the following error:
SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set
AguiRe
#2757 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/11/21 13:50:33
Thanks for the link and the idea.
SZ_GetSpace
#2758 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.52] on 2004/11/21 14:56:38
at startup is probably caused by overflow of the so called server signon buffer (default 8k, I've raised it to 64k, same as DP). This contains initial information about the map that gets larger the more entities there are.
Increasing this buffer might cause net protocol incompatibility.
I can't say for sure though without debugging the engine. I'll try to check with the map version I have.
Kinn,
#2759 posted by necros [66.185.84.74] on 2004/11/21 15:46:33
i'm not sure, but i think you need to remove bmodels (func_*, trigger_* etc...) to fix that... not sure though...
Just Checked
#2760 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.220] on 2004/11/21 16:00:01
It's the signon buffer that overflows, you'll need about 8.5k to handle startup (on Normal).
I Take It
#2761 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/11/21 16:27:12
the size of the signon buffer is hard-coded in the engine, i.e. not specifiable at the command line?
It's
#2762 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.88] on 2004/11/21 19:23:17
hardcoded and it wouldn't be very wise to have it flexible since it breaks net compatibility.
Btw, I've now added a warning in my engines if the signon buffer exceeds 8k.
Hehe... Kinn The Mighty
#2763 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/11/21 22:32:53
<aguiRe> Great, now you'll just have to move the sun...
*Kinn is now also known as Apollo
<Kinn> Nah, I'll just alter the sky...
*Kinn is now also known as Jupiter
Lol
#2764 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.20] on 2004/11/21 22:47:05
My power fantasies come from rereading my Silver Surfer collection -- I'll add to my list of inspirations.
D'oh
#2765 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.20] on 2004/11/21 22:48:29
but unfortunately I am more like Homer . . .
I'll add Kinn! to my list of inspirations
Free Edicts Problem
#2766 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/11/22 02:10:40
Well, as you certainly noticed, I've released my latest map called CMC last saturday. I have a big problem in hard skill: suddenly during the game, a "No Free Edicts" error occurs. My quesion is: what is this fucking error, and how could I solve it ??
Lol
#2767 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/11/22 03:08:50
Nice one, distrans ^_~
Also
#2768 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/11/22 03:32:25
aguirRe: that warning should be useful. I guess reducing the number of edicts present at startup would be the solution then?
JPLambert: No need to get stressed out. "No Free Edicts" just means you have too many entities in the level at a given moment. I believe if the number of edicts exceeds 600, then the game will exit with this error. The obvious way of solving this is to reduce the number of entities in your map. Of course, there are loads of edict-reducing QC changes you can make, but that might be a bit daunting if you're not into the whole QC thing. For example, in the original Quake progs.dat, items don't actually get removed from the level when you pick them up (this allows for deathmatch respawn, but in single player it is useless and can contribute to edict overflow). Making items remove themselves properly is a good start.
Another reasonably easy one (and something I make use of extensively in my Marcher map), reduces the need for multiple trigger relays, by giving triggers something akin to Half-Life style "multi-manager" type behaviour, with new fields .target1-5 and .delay1-5 . These work just like the normal target/delay combos and let me use a single entity to trigger up to 6 staggered events. It's an easy one to incorporate, because all you have to do is modify the SUB_UseTargets function to look for these new fields and take the appropriate action.
Kinn
#2769 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.52] on 2004/11/22 06:42:50
Take a look in the file sv_main.c (found in glquakebjp.zip), function SV_CreateBaseline. In that function the server goes through the entities and creates a baseline which is sent to the client.
If the total size of this baseline is larger than 8k, normal engines will abort here. I've put my check at the end of this function.
JPL
#2770 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.52] on 2004/11/22 06:46:11
Maybe the easiest solution for you is to just add the progs.dat from earlier packs that just removes corpses? You'll then have to put your files in a separate dir beneath Quake (e.g. quake\cmc).
Kinn
#2771 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/11/22 06:47:24
Thank for your help.
aguirRe, as well, give me precious advices as you've just did by mail. I will try to update the map tonight, or tomorrow if I didn't found enough time. I really hope I will be lucky and find the good way to solve the problem quiclkly...
I already have some ideas about it, for example some flashing lights are not usefull, and can be removed... (some guys complains about it... so... why not...) As well for some health in hard skill... I can "win" some edicts.. aguirRe told me edict count was near 620 , so trying to reduce it of 30 will for sure help... and this time I will try it in hard to be sure it will works... ;)
So, thank you for your precious informations... As I said before, I'm pretty young in mapping, so I really need feedback and advices from all pros you are, in order to improve myself..
Thx
GTKRadiant
#2772 posted by Zalon [213.237.37.160] on 2004/11/24 18:26:41
I have just changed to use GTKRadiant for mapping, and i would like to know in what dir i should put my textures, and should they be .wad, . png or .tga and what not?
Q1 Wads
#2773 posted by Blitz [24.218.173.39] on 2004/11/24 19:04:41
Should go in Quake/id1/
I don't know about Q2, but Q3 should already be setup correctly if you've not changed the basic directory structure of the game.
Depends
#2774 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.25] on 2004/11/24 23:56:22
If you don't have GTKRadiant set specifically for Quake, then you will need to use that game as your base file. Earlier versions (personally I wont go near 1.5) did not have Quake I as an option so I keep it set up for Quake III Arena (1.3.11, and 1.4 for Quake 2 and Half-Life)with this file set up Quake III Arena --> BaseQ3 --->Textures ---> Metal (example set of textures), with the .wad textures unpacked and converted to JPEG's.
The versions of Radiant I use don't support .wad files natively except in the case of 1.4 which supports Half-Life wads in the Classic version.
When I am ready to compile the map, I use a seperate set up. AquiRe's tools plus a utility called mapconv which converts Quake2 & Quake3 maps to the quake format (trivial difference really, but they can cause a ton of headaches if not converted).
Two things to watch out for if you are using GTKRadiant. Don't use the mesh feature which is native only to the Quake3 engine and also be aware of the default texture settings. Quake uses a 0.5 ratio and Quake and Quake 2 use 1.0. Trust me on this ;)
Hmm
#2775 posted by Zalon [213.237.37.160] on 2004/11/25 05:47:57
I have tried putting the wads in quake/id1/textures.wad but it looks for some textures dir and can't find it, I know that you can use older version and convert q3>q1 but is that better, to use an older version of GTKRadiant? and what version should i use then?
GTK
#2776 posted by VoreLord [203.51.231.229] on 2004/11/25 08:39:15
If you use 1.5, you put the .wad file in Quake\id1, Earlier versions you must extract the textures from the .wad file as jpeg's to Quake\id1\textures\WHATEVER, you must extract them so as Radiant can use them, use TexMex (or whatever you want), to extract them from the .wad as jpeg's, plus you must also have a copy of the .wad file in the same directory as your .map file/compile tools for compiling.
As to what version, I use 1.4, others would have differing preferences from the 1.2.XX or 1.3.XX series. It takes a little bit of messing around to get it set up, nothing to painful though, and once set up correctly Quake will be selectable from the games selection menu at start up. You'll need a map converter to convert between Q3/Q map formats and some compile tools. I prefer to use Sleepwalkers mapconverter, the non java version, if you wanted that version and can't find it, I can send it to you, and aguirRe's compile tools. All you really need to know can be found at the link below. It really isn't as complicated as it may seem, and once you have it set up, you'll be laughing.
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
Q1 Tools Update
#2777 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.159] on 2004/11/26 05:44:07
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are a new ShadowSense feature in Light, updated Win/GLQuake engines with support for up to 64k clipnodes and a new enhanced Nehahra engine. Please also see readmes for more details.
Any comments are welcome.
GTKR
#2778 posted by Zalon [213.237.37.160] on 2004/11/26 05:52:17
Thx for the info Vorelord, but i have already set up to versions of GTKRadiant, one with 1.2.13 and one with 1.5, i got it working now, both of them, now i just got a new problem, if using curves and whatnot it creates something called patch in the map file, and the converter don't know what to do with this, nor does the map exporter in 1.5. So it just deletes the parts made as patch, is there someway to convert patch to brush? since the curve features is really the reason why i want to use radiant
Zalon
#2779 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/11/26 08:03:12
You are not going to get curve/patch geometry in a quake 1 map. Fundamentally impossible.
Kinn
#2780 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/11/26 10:45:51
Maybe I misunderstand something, but isn't having curves/patches/other q3 bsp features the main reason for q3 bsp support in engines like Darkplaces? You can have a q3 bsp be a q1 map, so why wouldn't it be able to have curves and whatnot?
Jago
#2781 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/11/26 11:40:58
Yes yes. You're talking about q3 bsps, which of course will run in DarkPlaces.
I was under the impression that Zalon somehow wanted a way to get q3 curve information compiled into a q1 bsp, which as I stated before, is not possible.
There Are Decompilers
#2782 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.148] on 2004/11/26 11:56:19
that will accurately decompile Q3 bsp meshes to brushes. I use bspc myself. You will probably want to convert these brushes to func_walls if you decide to do this as they add quite a few brushes to your count.
Personally, I believe it isn't necessary though. Pingu's curves never suffered due to the fact he was limited to the Quake1 format.
QuArK Sucks!
#2783 posted by Spirit [213.39.196.72] on 2004/11/26 13:38:26
The float/integer-problems has nearly driven me insane, so ^^
I trust in your map-experience: What editor shall I choose for quake1-maps? I know it's quite a general question and I don't want any kind of flame war! But maybe you could give me some advices. Thanks;)
GTKRadiant
#2784 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/11/26 14:18:09
I prefer version 1.5 (beta)
Headthump
#2785 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.30.91] on 2004/11/26 20:37:01
How can you 'accurately' convert patches to brushes? Assuming a patch is just a set of control points, which can have a varying level of detail (depending on the settings in the game engine)? Who decides what is the 'correct' number of subdivisions/polys/whatever to describe that curve with brushes?
Accurate
#2786 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.244] on 2004/11/26 21:17:38
as in not distorted to an extent that is noticeable in game, and the brushes are not divided to the extent that they are overly simplified.
I have converted all of the original Q3 Arena maps using bspc and then converted over to Q1 maps for testing purposes, and it works fine without a hic-up.
Except,
#2787 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.244] on 2004/11/26 21:39:01
moving ones, like the expanding intestine like things in Q3DM4 do not translate well.
The Math Would Indeed Be Curious
#2788 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.244] on 2004/11/26 22:53:52
I contacted the guy who wrote the md2, md3 and Q3 bsp converters for Blender several months ago (http://scourage.servebeer.com/pro... to throw some ideas around and this idea is something we discussed.
Mesh to brush conversion has been a holygrail of mine for a long time now, since that article advanced brushes appeared on Rust that makes it sound like the easiest thing in the world to accomplish.
Any inaccuracies of the fallowing are my fault and not his.
The formula would perhaps go something like this -- deviding the surface into trigs you determine the width and legnth of the mesh from the visibility set of the adjacent normals, with the normal direction being the eventual thickness.
Brushes are volumetric, so you will have to determine a volume of at least 1.0 when calculating the thickness (width * height(thickness) = 1.0) So, a trig side of .25 will need a height of .40 to be an actual brush.
After this, determine within the group of touching trigs which of them is the thickest (and therefore the smallest brush) and adjust the height for the other brushes of the set to this size for a more coherent brush model unit.
Zalon
#2789 posted by VoreLord [144.131.202.240] on 2004/11/27 00:25:51
Good to see you got it going. And like everyone has said, you can't use Curves/patches with Quake, well without using engines that allow it. Also somethng that I forgot about (Blame DooM3}, is that aguirRe's tools will do the Q3/Q map format converting for you (with the use of the switch), doing away with the need for a seperate prog to do that step.
Visual QuakeC
#2790 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/11/30 11:44:53
Is it my imagination, or do I recall someone once wrote a cool interface for QuakeC editing. Googling doesn't yield much. Any thoughts?
Mmm...
#2791 posted by necros [142.150.107.96] on 2004/11/30 12:11:37
somehow, i doubt it would be any good. i am pesimistic hero.
Monsters Don't Want To Walk Over
#2792 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/01 10:00:13
I have a gangway over some slime made of bars.
Monsters (knights, ogres) can't walk over this bars. Is there any way to enable this?
Check the picture:
http://republika.pl/quake_1/way1.j...
Ankh
#2793 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/01 10:06:05
If you mean that monsters fall between the bars, just uses clip brush in order to plug the holes... I can't see another way to do that...
That's Not The Problem
#2794 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/01 10:23:35
I want monsters to walk over the bars. The distance between bars isn't big. The player can walk over easily. I have tried to use clip brush to cover the whole thing but it didn't help
Try Placing An Agre
#2795 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.49.54] on 2004/12/01 10:25:04
over the bars and see if it works then or not.
#2796 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2004/12/01 13:37:49
That's due to a bug in the monster AI... You can attempt to place a clip over those bars, may even that may not work... I know last time someone had this issue, the best solution was to place monster jumps at either end that just so slightly hopped them onto them. Still not a perfect solution, but may work with some experimentation.
Otherwise, you may have to bite the bullet and remove the bars, making a flat bridge for them to walk over.
I Had A Similar Problem...
#2797 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.24] on 2004/12/01 13:51:28
...and used a single clip brush that was one unit taller than the offending brushes. The clip brush is invisible to the player and the one unit difference is not noticable as a 'step' during play. The monsters happily walked on the clip brush.
That may help in this case.
Ankh
#2798 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/01 13:55:23
Line traces used in the walkmonster movement code are done in hull0, rather than the correct hull for the monster's bbox. Therefore, a monster attempting to navigate "broken ground" thinks he's a point object and therefore won't attempt to pass over small gaps in the geometry, that would otherwise be filled in the larger hulls. Placing clip brushes will have no effect sadly.
You could place an invisible, but solid bmodel in the gaps, and monsters will "see" it as solid, but it will block everything, including gibs and missiles, so that may not be the ideal solution.
Mike
#2799 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/01 13:59:22
oh if that's the case, I stand corrected ^_^
Bars
#2800 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/01 16:06:03
Another suggestion would be to alter the design from bars to a grill, like the one in dm1 near the YA alcove. The monsters will still wander slightly erratically but they should be able to navigate down the length of the longitudinal brushes.
Kinn (and Ankh)
#2801 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.72.24] on 2004/12/01 16:49:45
No, you're right. A clip-brush does not solve this particular problem. I am confusing things with my use of a one unit clearance in another problem. It should be mirror, signal, manouvre; not manouvre, signal, mirror :-)
Sorry Ankh.
Linkdoors Problem (Q1)
#2802 posted by Scragbait [67.68.0.41] on 2004/12/01 19:10:04
Here's my problem:
- In my map is a section with three doors. Each door has 4 pieces - like a plus sign and each of the 4 pieces moves away from the center when triggered. The first door works fine and is triggered by a trigger_multiple. The second and third doors work fine if they only consist of 2 pieces. I button triggered them for testing as I first suspected the trigger_multiples used before. When I make the other doors 4 pieces, Quake (FitzQuake) fails to load the map and displays info and declares a program error. Here are the main comments:
Program Error (map doesn't load)
Object error in Linkdoors
Cross Connected Doors
What really confuses me is that the second and third doors are duplicates of the first door with thier names changed. They work with two but not 4 bars. The first door works fine with 4 bars.
Any clues?
I can provide a small map file upon request.
#2803 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/01 19:25:26
cross-connected doors means you have the doors triggering each other as well as being triggerd by another entity.
Enable the 'Do Not Link' spawnflag.
Thanks Kell!
#2804 posted by Scragbait [67.68.0.41] on 2004/12/01 19:46:05
That was a fast reply and accurate.
Problem fixed - thanks.
Coordinates
#2805 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/02 07:43:42
Is it possible to determine coordinates of the place where you are while playing a Q1 map?
A Hackey Way
#2806 posted by czg [195.18.172.75] on 2004/12/02 07:53:23
Try typing edict # on the console, and replace the # with a number. It will print out info about that specific edict (entity) in the map.
Edict 0 should be the world, edict 1 should be the first link in the bodyqueue, and so on, so if you continue increasing the number you should eventually stumble across the player edict/entity (it should be around 8 or 9 or so iirc).
In the printout from the player entity, there should be a line "origin" that contains, (duh,) the origin of the player at that time.
There's also a field "angles" (I think) where you can read the view angles of the player, in case you need that for setting up an info_intermission or something.
(Of course, the most practical solution would be to make a tiny adjustment to the qc, so you could make, say, impulse 167 print out the origin of the player to console.)
Qdqstats Does That
#2807 posted by mwh [137.222.80.208] on 2004/12/02 08:05:34
(Of course, the most practical solution would be to make a tiny adjustment to the qc, so you could make, say, impulse 167 print out the origin of the player to console.)
Excepts it's impulse 99, I think.
Ankh
#2808 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/02 08:07:16
The Hipnotic progs.dat has an impulse command that dumps the player coordinates to the console. I can't check what it is though, as I'm at work atm.
Ankh
#2809 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/12/02 08:34:02
use fitzquake
type 'viewepos' at the console
and you'll get your current coordinates
also, you can get coordinates of the point you look at, type 'tracepos'
Thanks
#2810 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/02 09:15:47
I will check the qdqstats solution first.
Also I have used Kells suggestion to change the design from bars to grill to enable monster walk over it. Looks a bit strange how monsters search for the way on the grill, but at least they get thru (it takes some time however).
Sky Brushes
#2811 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.49] on 2004/12/02 16:59:05
I want to use _sunlight, _sun_mangle etc to light the map but do not want the player to see normal sky.
Is it possible to have a static sky texture e.g. use a rock texture aptly renamed sky?
Is it possible to have a skybrush with no visible texture?
Mike
#2812 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/02 20:46:46
I'll assume you're talking Q1.
No, by naming a texture sky it must then conform to Q1's texture nomenclature ( see metl's page which details all of these ). A Q1 sky texture must be 256x128 and the two square halves will be parallaxed against each other as usual. Failure to conform to this structure will result in erros, though I don't know exactly what and where ( wad editor, map editor, compiler, engine, console? ).
If run in a custom engine that suports skyboxes e.g. FitzQuake or Dark Places, you could specify a skybox out of 6 flat-color panels.
That's about the best I can suggest :/
Bleh
#2813 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/02 20:48:05
*you could specify a skybox made out of 6 flat-color panels.
If You Can't Make A Skybox Thingie
#2814 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.49.54] on 2004/12/02 23:08:38
You could try putting a skybox over the area you want, then fill over that with whatever brushwork you want, make it a func_door or something with no sound/movement/never triggers. That might result in what you want, if I understand your dilemma correctly.
If You Just Want A Solid-color Sky
#2815 posted by metlslime [68.120.157.160] on 2004/12/02 23:44:34
a 256x128 sky texture where it's all one color will do what you want.
Or...
#2816 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/03 00:36:47
...you could get your head around Riot's Q1Rad program http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/d...
Mike
#2817 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.226] on 2004/12/03 03:51:03
It's a bit odd request, but try experimenting with skybrushes that have solid textures on the faces you don't want to have the sky texture, i.e. "mixed face contents" brushes.
There are several maps with such "corrupt" skybrushes which cast sunlight although they look like solids.
You'll then also probably get the behaviour that you can fire a rocket right through the brush as if it was sky.
However, I don't really recommend this since the behaviour might differ in different tools/engines.
Some Problems With My Map
#2818 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/03 05:51:10
I have some small (I hope) problems with my map:
1. Message "Name is not a field" when I load the map in quake.
Do I have to correct this? How?
2. Several messages "Total_channels = Max_channels" at level start
When I remove any wall torch the number of messages decreases by one. Is it acceptable to have this problem in a map?
3. Map doesn't load in Ezquake.
But it loads in winquake, glquake, fitzquake and joequake. The problem with ezquake is: "Host_Error: SV.NUM_SIGNON BUFFERS== MAX_SIGNON_BUFFERS-1"
4. Several messages WALKMONSTER IN WALL in some engines.
But not in winquake or glquake. There isn't any monster stuck in wall in the whole level - I know it. There are some ogres placed close to walls which cause the message, but they move and behave normally. Maybe this causes the problem with ezquake.
What is your opinion about all this?
Ankh
#2819 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/03 06:16:45
1. It seems that you try to add a filed named Name into the map. I think you should change it to message or something like this...
2. I already add this problems. Just take a llok at post 261, 266, 1804, 1817 and after... Globally you have too much sound sources in your map. (torch are light and sound source as well !) and Max_channel is 8 in Quake..
3. Sorry I can't help you here...
4. This problem is really weird, but sems to come from the fact monsters are really too much closer of the walls.... hhmmmm perhaps you have also walking monsters without path_corner, and the engine try to make them walk throught the walls, which generates this problems... Otherwize don't use Ezquake.. this engine seems to suck...
JPLambert
#2820 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/03 06:24:09
Thanks for answers
2. I understand, but I would like to know if it's acceptable to leave it like it is. I didn't observe any problems with sound during the game
4. Can monster walk without path_corner? That would be interesting to me.
Ankh
#2821 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/03 07:10:08
2. You can leave it like it is, but you will have for sure some sound problems. For example, when I had this warnings, some teleporters, or exploding grenades, have no sounds... so the game loose a part of its functionality, and it dicrease its quality..
4. No no no, walking monsters cannot walk without path_corner items. I mean, that path_corner are perhaps not correctly placed: I don't know if I'm right, but for example in a "L like" corridor, you need at least 4 path_corner (1 at each end of the corridor, and 1 or 2 at the L angle... it depends if you want the monsters to turn back at the end, and return at it starting position, etc.. etc.). If you missed the L angle path_corners, monsters should try to path throught the wall from "end to end"...As far as walls are solid, it's obviously impossible, but I'm not sure of the way some engine work...
Well, this last problem seems to be tricky to solve, and maybe I don't have the good knowledges.... I was just trying to have some constructive idea in order to help you.
Ankh
#2822 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/03 08:21:07
If you get an error unique to one particular (obscure) custom engine - in this case 'ezquake' - don't worry about it, just don't use that engine. No-one around here will use a custom engine anyway if they can help it (with the exception of maybe FitzQuake, and a couple of others).
Kinn
#2823 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/03 08:26:01
Define custom engine. I'd wage that the vast majority of people here would NOT be using vanilla gl/soft quake.
Everyone
#2824 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.49] on 2004/12/03 10:52:10
Thanks for your suggestions: I'll let you know what happens.
#2825 posted by Scampie [68.117.129.117] on 2004/12/03 11:06:02
Jago: Are you fucking retarded? The vast majority do. And those that don't are either morons or use FitzQuake.
Scampie
#2826 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/03 11:19:18
In that case the vast majority *IS* fucking retarded because vanilla software- and glquake don't run all that well (and in many cases not at all) on modern hardware and operating systems and lack a shitload of features I and many other people take for granted. And there is more than 1 engine port worth using.
#2827 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2004/12/03 13:54:31
oh, ugly 24 bit textures and blue lighting effects on lightning bolts are features?
Custom Engines
#2828 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.49] on 2004/12/03 15:15:39
I use Fitzquake because I cannot use the original Quake engine with WinXP and I would not want go back to Win98 or earlier. I am surprised that so few(?) users are with WinXP: I accept that everyone else maybe Mac or Linux.
Has anyone got original Quake to work with WinXP? I am sure I have asked this before and got negative replies.
Mind you, I am deleriously happy with Fitzquake (until I have problems). I am also using aguirRe's GLQuake - I threw 46,000 clip nodes at it yesterday and it didn't bat an eyelid.
Yeah.
#2829 posted by necros [66.185.84.196] on 2004/12/03 15:58:55
i have winxp pro and glquake works perfectly fine. all you have to do is delete the outdated opengl.dll file.
But...
#2830 posted by cyBeAr [213.65.179.30] on 2004/12/03 16:12:42
glquake is uglyquake
No,
#2831 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2004/12/03 16:13:47
YOU are ugly.
Original Quake...
#2832 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.49] on 2004/12/03 16:42:28
that came with the game will not run (after the later releases). GLQuake always had a horrible water-warp, but as I said, I have used aguirRe's GLQ. But I will stick to Fitzquake at present.
A Humble Request
#2833 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/03 16:43:17
You know the famous E2M2 bug, whereby if you shoot one button and then bunnyhop across the gap, the trigger inside the door will hang quake if you are on easy skill?
Well, this is a request for some hardcore engine coder dude to give me as detailed as possible an explanation as to what exactly is happening here, as this situation is rather relevant to what I am doing atm.
I know it may have been posted on this board before, but in the absence of a search function, I'm a bit clueless sadly.
Kinn
#2834 posted by Vondur [81.195.20.157] on 2004/12/03 18:07:13
in fitzquake at least, that door's trigger forces bridge to extend, and the other button is still red...
w3rd indeed
Kinn
#2835 posted by mwh [195.92.168.165] on 2004/12/03 18:33:10
I think it's something like the trigger wakes up a fiend which isn't present on the map in skill 0. I've seen a detailed write up somewhere, but I can't find it :-(
Kinn
#2836 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.168] on 2004/12/03 18:36:47
Take a look here: http://forums.quakesrc.org/viewtop...
Thanks
#2837 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/04 05:08:52
aguirRe, yes there's some helpful info in that link :)
I guess this is related to the QC "rule" that you shouldn't call remove() inside a touch function. What I don't get is why this rule is broken in several places in the QC, eg. in spike_touch(), remove(self) is called directly inside the function.
Is this effectively a "bug" in the original QC, or are there situations where remove() is legal to call inside a touch function? Is it only SOLID_TRIGGER entities that you're not allowed to remove() inside touch functions?
I Would Think So Because
#2838 posted by necros [66.185.84.74] on 2004/12/04 11:16:44
i've removed many ents from within their touch functions and never noticed a thing.
where is this rule from?
Necros
#2839 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/04 12:29:11
it happens a lot in triggers.qc; here's an extract from the multi_trigger() function:
// we can't just remove (self) here, because this is a touch function
// called wheil C code is looping through area links...
self.touch = SUB_Null;
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = SUB_Remove;
Hm...
#2840 posted by necros [66.185.84.74] on 2004/12/04 15:16:59
now that you quoted that, i do remember seeing that. i would assume it only applies to triggers since i've seen it done and have done it countless times on non trigger entities.
Necros
#2841 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/04 16:11:15
i would assume it only applies to triggers
Great, if we can definately confirm this, then I will be a happy camper ^_^
Item_spikes Oddity
#2842 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/04 18:33:53
01:32:12 Jago : My map has 1 instance of item_spikes and it shows up ok
01:32:23 Jago : I try adding 1 more, it doesnt show up
01:32:37 Jago : I try moving it around the map, doesnt help
01:32:54 Jago : I try copying the existing and working entity and move it around, no good
01:33:00 Jago : WTF?
Figured It Out
#2843 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/04 19:02:37
02:00:00 Jago : figured it out
02:00:43 Jago : apparenltly, item_spikes doesnt like being only 16 units above the floor
02:00:57 Jago : moving it up to 32 units above floor fixed it
02:02:28 Jago : weird that it works fine for item_shells
..?
#2844 posted by necros [66.185.84.74] on 2004/12/04 23:39:26
odd because i usually put item_* 0 units off the floor.
are you using worldcraft? maybe you need the fixed entities list thing.
Gah!
#2845 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.101] on 2004/12/05 07:25:47
Has anyone tried adding spawnflags to an entity in WorldCraft/Hammer beyond 2048? (i.e., 4096, 8192 and upwards).
It doesn't seem to want to store them (even though it has checkboxes for them).
Ankh
#2846 posted by PuLSaR [83.239.253.48] on 2004/12/07 11:52:09
I like your nickname
Jago...
#2847 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/07 20:05:13
... if you are using WC replace your existing quake.fgd with this http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoi...
This will solve all sorts of problems
Distrans
#2848 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/07 20:18:04
I use GYKRadiant. It just never occured to me that the entity file in radiant is well commented.
PuLSar
#2849 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/08 04:46:00
Thanks.
Fgd File
#2850 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2004/12/08 04:48:34
Is it safe to change the fgd file in worldraft when working on an almost done map?
Well Yes.
#2851 posted by czg [195.204.39.141] on 2004/12/08 04:52:02
But if you're feeling insecure just take a backup of your old one before you replace it. (Or just make your Quake configuration in Worldcraft use the new fgd.)
Ankh
#2852 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.180] on 2004/12/08 14:14:52
I do it constantly in Hammer with no ill effects, older versions of worldcraft may be different.
BspEditor
#2853 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/08 15:34:51
I have a problem.
I was trying to make a map for the 1000 brush pak and was therefore using the Dkte3.wad. However, after saving the unfinished map whenever I tried to load it, I got a 'Couldn't load wad file...' error, which crashes the editor.
By trial and error over several days I found that the map file was(still is) being saved with an empty line immediately following the line '//BSPFAVORITES0010'. On older maps, I notice that listed on the line should be the texture names of ten favourites e.g.
//BSPFAVORITES0010
//A_LAVA1;A_WATER1;A_WATER2A;ARCH0... I am assuming therefore, that the editor 'knows' that as the commented line says there are ten favourites, their names will be found on the following line, which will enable the editor to display said favourites in the textre window. On not finding them, it gives up the ghost.
Does anyone know what setting I may have inadvertantly changed? Has anyone seen a similar problem in other editors? Can anyone help?
It has taken so long to discover this that I have missed the 1000 Brush Map deadline. I now have to save my work less often, which for me means less compiling, and then edit the map file in TextPad before I can re-load it into the editor. Most frustrating and begining to wear a bit thin.
The editor was written by Yahn Bernier.
I Don't Know
#2854 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.47] on 2004/12/08 15:55:57
the answer, but after inspecting some other maps made by BSP, the favorites line doesn't seem to require 10 items, they could be less.
I believe Tyrann is the expert on BSP here. I have the editor installed so I could see if I could reproduce the behaviour if you send me the map.
Good Start AguirRe...
#2855 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/08 16:49:36
Favourite/favorite: bloody hell!
At least I can now see the FavoUrite setting in Bsp.ini that I could not find before - our friends across the water use American whereas I stick to plain English!
What this has shown me is that regardless of the setting, Quake101.wad works fine as do plenty of other wads. Dkte3.wad appears to be the culprit: I have found several other wads that give the same problem.
What I cannot see at the moment is what the difference is to BspEditor as far as these two example wads goes.
The display of textures in the Favorites List is set in bsp.ini (show_favorites=1), and regardless of how it is set (along with 'numfav' to set how many textures to show), Dkte3.wad causes a blank line to be saved. This happens even if show_favorites=0 and numfav=0. Also, what is not clear is why, when these are set to zero, the map is still saved with
//BSPFAVORITES0001
//ADOOR01_2
It may be to do with the format of the commented lines: these lines are not needed for the building of the map but tell Bs[Editor things about how the editor itself is set-up.
So, concentrating on the wad files for a minute, I can see that Dkte3 has no * prefixed textures (no moving water, sky or lava), and only a few + prefixed textures when compared to quake101. Am I getting warm?
I will send aguirRe two simple maps showing the problem but don't let that stop anyone else coming up with the answer :-)
Hmmm,
#2856 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.56] on 2004/12/08 17:13:42
you could open the wad up in Wally or TexMex, select the textures you intend to use and then add those to your basic Quake101 wad.
PS Sorry you missed the Pak. Wont be the same without you.
Mike
#2857 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.84] on 2004/12/08 17:49:04
You're filling my mailbox! What are you sending me?
AguirRe
#2858 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/08 18:03:18
Sorry. You usually ask for the map and wad file in a zip file?
But it seems as though OE split it into 14 parts and this has caused a problem at both ends: I didn't realise anything actually got through. Once again, sorry.
I have subsequently sent two simple map files only, via Hotmail (attachment<1k), showing the problem.
HeadThump
#2859 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/08 18:05:28
I'll try that in the morning. Thanks.
I Thought
#2860 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.84] on 2004/12/08 18:21:46
it was just the map file that was the problem. I've received 22 emails totalling over 11 MB. My poor modem ...
It appears as if the split file is incomplete so I don't know if I can put it together. If you have such big attachments, please upload somewhere and offer a link instead.
OK, Managed
#2861 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.63] on 2004/12/08 19:02:04
to puzzle out the important parts of the MIME message. On my system, I get the same problem opening 123.map. After manually changing the line
//BSPFAVORITES0010 into
//BSPFAVORITES0000,
opening and saving in BSP then seems to heal the map file. Repeated opening and saving after that seems OK.
Hm...
#2862 posted by necros [66.185.84.74] on 2004/12/09 21:03:30
any place i can learn how to use custom textures in hl2?
HL2 Custom Textures
#2863 posted by VoreLord [144.137.188.141] on 2004/12/10 01:02:13
http://www.interlopers.net/content...
Various
http://www.interlopers.net/content...
There are many sites poping up with tut's, just keep an eye out
Antilight Use
#2864 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/10 05:28:52
While I'm not use with antilight, can somebody help me an explain how antilight are declared (field in light entity, color, etc...) in a map ?? I supposed it's done like light entity, but what are the differences ??
Thanks
Antilight
#2865 posted by czg [195.204.39.141] on 2004/12/10 05:41:33
Is just a normal light but in the "light" field (Or Brightness field if you're using WorldCraft) you put a negative number instead of a positive one.
I'm not sure how you make negative colored lights. In good old arghrad you could make both the brightness and the color components positive and negative, so if you had a light with "light" "-200" and "color" "255 -128 0" you'd end up with a light that sucks up red light (negative * positive = negative), emits green light (negative * negative = positive), and leaves blue light alone (negative * 0 = 0).
Also, antilights only affect lights of the same "style", so a flickering antilight won't have any effect in an area where there are just normal styled lights, but it will suck up light from other similarly flickering lights.
And last but not least, read the readme for the light util, these things are usually explained pretty well there. RTFM! ;)
Jpl
#2866 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/12/10 05:49:56
what czg said and RTFM indeed!
Czg
#2867 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/10 05:50:17
Thanks !!! In fact antilight are no more than "negative brightness" light... BTW, I've read (perhaps too much quickly) the readme file of my light tool, and I didn't find the stuff.... perhaps I missed it... Anyway, thank you very much for these important precisions....
RTFM ???
#2868 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/10 05:51:46
Could you explain please... I think it's a quick short cup like IMHO, or soething else, but I didn't understand this one (AFAIK not more by the way... )
Hmmmm
#2869 posted by VoreLord [203.51.233.183] on 2004/12/10 06:25:38
Something along the lines of
READ THE FUCKING MANUAL
Jpl
#2870 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/12/10 06:27:03
from http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/f...
What is RTFM?
RTFM is not having to say you are sorry. RTFM is a big chromatic dragon with bloodshot beady eyes and fangs the size of oars. RTFM is me screaming at you as fireballs come out of my mouth to get off your precious no-good tush, march down to the local bookstore or MAN page repository, and get the eff off my back because I'm trying very hard to get some freakin' work done. Jeez.
RTFM - read the fucking manual ;)
Thanks...
#2871 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2004/12/10 07:34:49
... I understand the stuff now... ;D
AguirRe
#2872 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/10 11:24:01
Thanks for the last message re .map file problem (only just back to my desktop today).
Interesting. I did as you did and found it would now load. Looking at the new map though, the line that I had changed to 0000 now says 0001 and includes one texture on the following line even though the bsp.ini file clearly states that I do not want Favourites.
However, it works so I will leave well alone. I still don't understand why it inserted the blank line in the first place but if it happens again I will do a 'repair' and carry on.
Aguirre
#2873 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/14 15:27:20
is it possible to make lava emit light as sky does? but w/o angles etc, just imitation of the loads of point lights ;)
Aguire
#2874 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/14 15:46:24
my esteemed russian friend means: surfacelight
Vondur
#2875 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.97] on 2004/12/14 16:21:08
Heh, do you remember this:
AguirRe
#493 posted by {Vondur} [213.247.187.250] on 2003/09/30 01:21:59
is it possible to make lavalight?
i mean the light that generates by lava surface as it generates by sky, but with delay.
Vondur
#498 posted by {aguirRe} [62.127.45.40] on 2003/09/30 06:20:48
I guess lava light should be possible using a similar technique, but I doubt the extra coding and processing time would be worth the effect.
Lava is relatively scarce in maps (I'm not so fond of it either) and the lava light would be rather local and diffuse. That makes it very different from sunlight which is more difficult to simulate with point lights.
Hrimfaxi actually had the same suggestion a while ago. He also wanted the lava light to be slowly pulsating.
To add to that, the closest thing I can see is something similar to the 2nd sunlight which is also diffuse. However, 2nd sunlight is non-attenuated and generated by automatically positioned extra suns in a grid, the amount depending on oversampling level (-extra*).
Vondur
#2876 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/12/14 17:01:29
Its very easy with Q1rad, just set it up in the lights.rad file like this:
*LAVA1 255 255 255 50
As you see above, there's the texture name, the 3 following numbers are the RGB values of the light, and the final number is the brightness.
Aguirre Und Frib
#2877 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/14 17:07:22
aguirre: yeah, i remember i was asking u that but was not sure where to search for that :> okay.
frib: yeah i know that util, but i use aguirre's light cuz it's more advanced though ;)
Aguire
#2878 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/14 17:53:02
How trivial/hard would it be to port this feature from q1rad into your light tool?
I Haven't
#2879 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.244] on 2004/12/14 18:11:43
made any investigation, but I believe the lighting design is rather different so I don't think it'd be easy. If I understand it correctly, q1rad is based on HL's hlrad.
I have no current plans to include this functionality.
Vondur: Please try the new -gate 1 option as it really cuts down on processing time.
Yeah
#2880 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/12/14 20:28:31
The tools are fundamentally different, I imagine it wouldn't be possible to add any radiosity stuff into the existing quake lighting tools without a full rewrite of the code.
I'm sure it'd be much easier to integrate the advanced features into the radiosity tool instead, but that also would require a lot of work I'm sure (and in any case Riot has lost the code for Q1rad, so you'd be starting from scratch again).
Well
#2881 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/15 01:39:18
yeah i see it's rather complex task, then fek it. adding lava light manually isn't that bad in fact, you can make it more interesting.
off the laziness! ;)
aguirre, yah i tried it, but didn't notice any significant speed up (so far). maybe because the level is too small.
Vondur
#2882 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.225] on 2004/12/15 04:28:20
The good thing is that you're mapping again!
And as for the Fade Gate, I can e.g. make a complete re-light of Adamantine Cruelty in just 2:20, or Nastrond in 2:49 ...
Aguirre
#2883 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/12/15 05:07:50
regarding mapping: well, that doesn't mean i'll finish it ;)
regarding gate: eh? is the light quality the same as with -soft -extra etc?
Yeah
#2884 posted by DaZ [80.43.75.9] on 2004/12/15 07:33:19
I used surfacelight for all the lava in my dm map "blood sweat & piss" (on my website - http://www.planetquake.com/dazdran... ) normal lighting for everything else, and dumped surface lights to the bsp with a program then lit it with arguires light.exe , worked a treat
Vondur
#2885 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.19] on 2004/12/15 13:48:09
The quality is the same. The difference is measurable but not visible. I use it all the time now and in most maps, it speeds up light processing by 2-15 times.
Movable Keys?
#2886 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.167] on 2004/12/15 15:24:17
Is it possible to make a key move around in a level? I.E. I want a gold key "driving" on a func_train:)
...
#2887 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/15 15:29:55
so make a small func_train, and put the key on top of it.
Yeah Sure.
#2888 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2004/12/15 15:29:58
Just place the key on top of the train...
¬_¬
Excuse My Newbiness
#2889 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.167] on 2004/12/15 16:02:20
=) You're right... I am not familiar with setting up func_trains, so I ever placed the key somewhere else but not at the "real" (as it is compiled) top of the trainbrushes:\ Well, me < editor < Quake
85
#2890 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/15 16:33:09
the train will begin its movement from the path_corner it targeted, so put the key under the train near that path_corner entity...
Aguirre
#2891 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/15 17:45:56
i've met some troubles with shadows of sunlight2/3.
http://vondur.net/images/fitz0004....
i tried every possible settings with sunlights, including sunlight3 usage. and cannot get how to make these shadows render properly.
maybe because they're too far from the sky?
Difficult To Say
#2892 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.250] on 2004/12/15 18:20:56
from just the shot. I assume you mean why the bright spots are there? One thing that normally isn't very good is the sun pitch of -90. Please try e.g. -89 instead and see if it works better.
Otherwise I can only think of that sunlight2/3 is actually generated by a limited number of extra suns arranged in a grid around the upper hemisphere, which means that they won't be able to reach every corner, especially not if the architecture is complex or very vertical.
The distance from sky shouldn't matter since sunlight is non-attenuated (like delay 3).
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see if I can find out what's going on.
Aguirre
#2893 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2004/12/16 01:32:11
ok, the .map sent :)
Daz
#2894 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2004/12/16 17:48:12
I tried something like that a while ago, and couldn't get it to work, can you tell me how you managed to use two lighting tools on one BSP? Bastid :D
When I tried it, I found that the last lighting tool used stomped all of the pre-existing lightmap data, but perhaps I was doing something wrong (or using the tools in the wrong order). I was using Q1rad and aguire's light tool, but I can't remember which one I used first.
FRIBLETS
#2895 posted by DaZ [80.43.69.123] on 2004/12/16 19:07:15
From my bsp.bsp compile.bat -->
dubsp -nocrouch bsp
vis -level 4 bsp
durad -extra -dumpfacelights bsp
dulight -extra -surfacelights bsp
if u dont have dulight/rad I can email them to you...
Thanks Daz
#2896 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.4.67] on 2004/12/17 17:54:41
I do have durad/dulight, I've just never used them as I thought they were made redundant by Q1rad. I'll have to have a look, thanks!
/me Has Had An Idea
#2897 posted by tron [220.244.224.105] on 2004/12/19 11:16:50
Do any quake engines that anyone knows of support moving lights with negative values?
FitzQuake Supports Colored Lightning
#2898 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/21 13:04:45
but you must have an associated .lit file with your .bsp file.
Glad if someone would explane this a little more. Don't care to write one, if I knew how.
#2899 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2004/12/21 19:41:41
Moving lights? I'd think darkplaces and tenbrae could do that since they're the only ones with dynamic lights I know of off the top of my head. Fuckall knows if they allow negative lights.
.
#2900 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/21 21:36:11
moving lights is easy.
make a func_train with a small brush. in the func_train, give the key 'effects' '1'
Necros
#2901 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/21 21:44:08
This is interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of this key before. What exactly does it do and what entities does it work with?
Jago...
#2902 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/21 22:13:06
http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/d...
#2903 posted by Scampie [68.117.129.117] on 2004/12/21 22:41:06
!
why they fuck didn't I know of that page when I was doing speedmaps!? neat shit like that is what makes speedmaps great!
It's
#2904 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/21 23:41:10
a key that is normally only used in qc stuff (like when an enforcer bolt is spawned, that key is set so that it glows) and is handled all by the engine.
but we can hijack it like fatty demonstrates. ^_^
I Think It Was...
#2905 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/22 00:09:26
...Pingu who used it to great effect (no pun intended) in "The Journey Home" by adding "effects" value "1" to the gold key.
If I'm wrong about it being Pingu, bleh!
Scampie: j00 r n00b
Don't Forget:
#2906 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/22 00:19:29
effects = 4 is a bright light
effects = 8 is the yellow particle field + dimlight
Noobs
#2907 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/22 07:54:15
Necros
#2908 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/12/22 09:11:00
So is there an "effects" "2"? If so, what does it do?
Yeah, Its A Cool Page
#2909 posted by starbuck [82.33.89.24] on 2004/12/22 09:43:13
i never got the light to emit i remember, but i did use the particle field in a speedmap once. The trick with the door sounds might have been freaky to use too.
Worldcraft 1.6a
#2910 posted by generic [69.244.213.210] on 2004/12/22 10:11:17
Another n00b question:
Is there any way (i.e. edit the RMF or Map file) to add back a camera that you accidentally deleted? I have done this a couple of times now and am tired of "re-piloting" the camera to the last point-of-interest in the map I am currently working on.
Generic[69.244.213.210]
#2911 posted by czg [195.204.39.141] on 2004/12/22 10:22:33
No.
Well, I guess you could edit the RMF file but those aren't exactly human-readable...
RPG,
#2912 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/22 12:25:26
well, effects 2 is for the muzzle flash when you shoot. it is a flash of duration 0.2 seconds. i haven't tried it, but i don't imagine it will do anything as the actual game doesn't start at 0 seconds but more like 0.5 or 0.6 seconds, so you wouldn't be able to see the flash anyway as that would happen at 0 seconds.
it's difficult for me to explain, sorry...
Meh
#2913 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/22 14:16:27
If you want to go hacking the .effects field in the editor, here's what they do...
EF_BRIGHTFIELD = 1 //silly looking ball of moving yellow dots
EF_MUZZLEFLASH = 2 //short-lived flash of light
EF_BRIGHTLIGHT = 4 //a bright light
EF_DIMLIGHT = 8 //a "dim" light, like on lasers/rockets
Necros
#2914 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/22 14:18:42
I believe you have the brightfield and dimlight the wrong way around.
Yup, It Looks That Way.
#2915 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/22 14:45:57
my bad. ^_^
My Light
#2916 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/22 21:16:27
stands still...
and just wonders how to get the *.lit file
Well.
#2917 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/22 21:27:35
first use tyrlite or equivalent program that can compile coloured lights.
then, in the lights, you use _color 'r g b i'
where r is red, g is gree and b is blue while i is intensity.
i think. i haven't done coloured likes in ages.
Hmm...
#2918 posted by metlslime [67.136.130.124] on 2004/12/23 04:32:53
i think it's just "_color" "r g b" but that's just from quake2 and quake3 experience.
Colored Lights
#2919 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/12/23 10:01:04
According to rpgsp1.map, you use "_color" "r g b" to set the color, and "light" "200" (for example) to set the intensity. That's what works with TyrLite.
Thanks
#2920 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/23 10:59:49
a lot! Couldn't believe my eyes seeing a moving light in Quake1!
Errr
#2921 posted by DaZ [80.43.74.72] on 2004/12/23 12:17:01
so you've never fired a rocked in q1 then madfox? :D
Metlslime/rpg
#2922 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/23 12:37:28
you're right. it's q1rad that you use r g b i. i have terrible memory. :P
I Fired More Than One
#2923 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/23 13:21:58
but that's coding,not hacking. Never succeeded rocket-jumping without getting suïcided...
Err...
#2924 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/23 14:50:27
I am not sure one should be mapping for a game before he learns to move around in it.
Right
#2925 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/23 17:03:12
Abandon me!
GTKRadiant 1.5.0
#2926 posted by Gib [81.178.115.52] on 2004/12/23 19:05:44
I jsut downlaoded this and it says it has support for making quake1 maps, however when I load it up and press t for textures there is nuthing to browse, any ideas?
Gib
#2927 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/23 20:24:20
1) Read the documentation.
2) Put your texture WADs into /Quake/ID1
3) Read the documentation.
Twice
#2928 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/23 21:04:30
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
At Least...
#2929 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/23 23:18:21
Tried it out in GtkRadiant 1.04 but after setting the preferences, and turning the wad file into Quake/Id1, the programm ended in a solid brush.
MadFox
#2930 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/24 04:30:51
That sentence made no sence whatsoever.
Jago
#2931 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/24 06:39:49
His programm ended in a solid brush, what's there not to understand?
.
#2932 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/24 09:43:18
I've been working 2 houres to get the thing done. Then I realized i was using GtkR1.04 in stead of Gtk1.02
Also forgot to use Java applet.
But if my sentence made no sence I'll read the manual two times. Might help jago one time...
MadFox
#2933 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/24 10:13:08
What... The... Fuck?
1) GTKRadiant 1.02 does not exist
2) GTKRadiant 1.04 does not exist
3) what the hell do Java applets have to do with... ANYTHING?
Heh
#2934 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2004/12/24 10:19:01
madfox is trying to fool you, jago ;)
Sorry If Someone Feelsd Screwed Up, But
#2935 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2004/12/24 10:27:00
I thought someone asked for quake1 in GTKradiant.
Since two times RTFM seems no help to me I considdered to make a link to industry.
If you don't use it, don't tell me what and what not excists. If you used the link you would know what I mean.
I'm not helped with...the..fuck! (one time)
MadFox
#2936 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/24 10:32:54
again... WHAT THE FUCK?
1) what on god's green Earth is a "link to the industry" ?
2) What "link" is anyone here supposed to be using?
Dude, really, take some english classes. You are not making any sense. AT ALL.
Shut Up Jago
#2937 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2004/12/24 10:35:48
He means the link to Tigger-on's industri/how to set up gtkr for q1 tutorial which he posted just up here...
Jago
#2938 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/12/24 10:36:01
He linked to Tigger's industri Radiant tutorial in his previous post.
LOL Beaten
#2939 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/12/24 10:36:24
^_____^
Like A Child In Thailand!
#2940 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2004/12/24 10:37:11
ohno!
Ah
#2941 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/24 10:37:59
Well in that case...
That tutorial is of no use to you if you are using GTKRadiant 1.5, because that branch supports Q1 natively without the need to fuck around with texture and mapfile conversions and whatnot.
Thing Is..
#2942 posted by cant map [195.208.123.213] on 2004/12/24 10:46:51
GTKRadiant is for somewhat clever ppl
so dont bother madfox
That's The Thing
#2943 posted by Gib [81.178.109.17] on 2004/12/24 11:01:46
There is no documentation regarding quake in there but it does have help topic on every other game supported :S
But saying that, putting the was into /quake/id1/ worked, I had them in /quake/id1/textures for some reason.
It Would Save You A Whole Lot Of Time
#2944 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.186] on 2004/12/24 12:32:19
if you used or learned to use batch files. Don't be a slave to the GUI.
Gtkradiant 1.5 Question
#2945 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/24 22:16:35
How do I select ALL faces that use a specific texture?
Jago
#2946 posted by Scampie [66.231.199.15] on 2004/12/25 00:37:35
don't think the option exists... but if you're trying to change them all to something else, there is find/replace in the textures menu.
Scampie
#2947 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/25 03:59:23
Actually, I am trying to properly align the texture, on some of the brushes the texture is offset by multiple units.
Gtkradient
#2948 posted by dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2004/12/25 17:04:51
is there a way to select all the brushes on a map at once in gtkradiant 1.4? im trying to mirror the entire thing.
Sure.
#2949 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/25 17:32:54
make a huge brush in the top view that covers the whole map. click on the button for 'select partial tall'
and voila, all the brushes will be selected.
press space and it's copied.
^_^
Necros
#2950 posted by dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2004/12/25 18:02:42
thankyou
To Select All Faces With A Specific Texture
#2951 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.8.84] on 2004/12/25 19:38:44
You can kind of do it by selecting the texture (or one face with that texture) and pressing SHIFT+A. This is not the ideal solution though, as it selects all brushes with that texture, rather than all faces...
Depending on your needs though, that may be ok.
SHIFT+A is usually used to select all entities of the same type as the selection.
Heh,
#2952 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/25 19:42:11
i learn something new about gtkr everyday. :P
thanks, that will come in handy in the future. ^_^
WARNING:
#2953 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/25 19:45:09
When I try and compile my map with c:\..\qbsp gibmap1.map
I get the warning: no wadfile specified, any idea what could be causing this?
Gib
#2954 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/25 20:03:12
AFAIK, GTKRadiant still doesn't add the WAD files you use to the map worldspawn. You have 2 solutions for this:
1) add the WAD files manually to the worldspawn entry of your map.
2) open the map in another map editor and re-save the map. I've done this with WorldCraft.
.
#2955 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/25 20:04:43
Thanks I think I'll do it via wc.
Aguire
#2956 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/12/25 20:29:42
Im trying to use your TreeQBSP to compile a Q1 map. If i understand correctly all i have to do is add "-q2map" to the command line for it to spit out a Q1 map. However when i try this i get an error message "***ERROR 54: Line 6: Line is incomplete". I've tried googleing but no luck. Theres no entities in the map and i havint modified it in any way other then with gtkradiant. also theres no wad file specified.. not sure how to go about doing that
Any suggestions?
Well,
#2957 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/25 22:14:03
the first thing i'd do it open up the .map file and see what is on line6.
there is something wrong with that line. if it's not obvious, then copy it and paste it here and i'll take a look.
Dakza
#2958 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.181] on 2004/12/25 23:05:23
I sometimes get that message if I have converted the map back and forth between .map formats a few times.
Take a look at the worldspawn entity, does it look like this,
"classname"" "Worldspawn"?
just do a find "" and replace with " in a text editor if this is the source of the problem.
Lines 1 Through 12 Or 13 I Think I Forgot
#2959 posted by dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2004/12/25 23:23:29
Ok below are lines 1 through 13. with it like this i get the error "line 7 is incomplete.
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"wad" "egyptsoc.wad"
// brush 0
{
( -320 320 320 ) ( -512 320 320 ) ( -512 -448 320 ) egypt/block06a 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 -448 352 ) ( -512 320 352 ) ( -320 320 352 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 -416 328 ) ( -320 -416 328 ) ( -320 -416 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -320 -448 328 ) ( -320 320 328 ) ( -320 320 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -320 -192 328 ) ( -512 -192 328 ) ( -512 -192 320 ) egypt/v128-01c 0 0 90 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 320 328 ) ( -512 -448 328 ) ( -512 -448 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
I Tested The Map Text
#2960 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.192] on 2004/12/26 03:32:46
you have there with the latest build of txbsp because I'm more familar with it as a basis than treebsp. It has the same support base as treebsp however.
I saved it as a test map, adding only a brace at the end to enclose the worldspawn entity, like so:
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"wad" "egyptsoc.wad"
// brush 0
{
( -320 320 320 ) ( -512 320 320 ) ( -512 -448 320 ) egypt/block06a 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 -448 352 ) ( -512 320 352 ) ( -320 320 352 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 -416 328 ) ( -320 -416 328 ) ( -320 -416 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -320 -448 328 ) ( -320 320 328 ) ( -320 320 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -320 -192 328 ) ( -512 -192 328 ) ( -512 -192 320 ) egypt/v128-01c 0 0 90 0.500000 0.500000
( -512 320 328 ) ( -512 -448 328 ) ( -512 -448 320 ) egypt/stone01c 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
}
and I ran it without the -q2map option and it compiled without a problem. It would seem that the option is no longer necessary to compile q2map builds, but that is just my inference from this test.
Dakza/HeadThump
#2961 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.244] on 2004/12/26 04:54:50
You must use the -q2map option for maps in Q2 map format. However, from what I can see in the excerpts above, the face format seems to be mixed Q2/Q1.
There are paths in the texture names like in a Q2 map, but the additional values after the tex name are missing (like in a straight Q1 map).
Something seems wrong in the generation of this map file. As for the wad, you must either include it in the "wad" key in worldspawn (like you already do, but check file position) or have a wad file with the same name as the map file in the same directory (the default wad logic). E.g. "mymap.map" and "mymap.wad".
Dakza: If you wish, you can send me the zipped (unconverted) map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Cheesey Workaround
#2962 posted by dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2004/12/26 13:20:11
I used the replace feature in wordpad to deleate the texture paths... then i saved it in worldcraft.. for some reason if i didint some of the brushes went missing when i went to compile. then i just run it like a normal quake map. Works, but its an awful hassle. Plus i have some consern re not knowing whats going wrong.
ALso, how do you go about modifying entities in gtk? eg. adding targetnames and spawnflags and such.
Vis_leafs
#2963 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/26 13:27:06
(shouldn't that be leaves?)
So there I am, happily polishing my effort for the SM40 contest, when all of a sudden I get 'Vis leafs 8684 exceed normal engine max 8192'. Bugger!
During this latest bout of polishing I have added about 12 brushes. I haven't seen this message before on this map so am somewhat surprised.
Am I right in thinking that vis_leafs are 'the sides of brushes that face into the map that a player can see'? For simplicity, I am assuming that we have a hollow cube and that it is made of six brushes, resulting in 6 vis_leafs. Each brush is six sided in the .map file but the player can only see those sides that are 'inside' the map when it is played i.e. the six inside surfaces of the wall, ceiling and floor.
I know about func_walls (from earlier posts) but my most numerous brushes that fit my simple scenario are all cave walls and ceilings. If I turn these into func_walls and place brushes outside of these to seal the map, am I likely to get some success in reducing vis_leafs?
I don't seem to get a vis_leaf count unless it's a problem and I have 5500 brushes in this map so I don't want major changes unless I need to.
Any suggestions?
.
#2964 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/26 13:41:16
well, i don't know tons about this subject, but vis_leafs isn't the visible surfaces, that would be surfaces and marksurfaces i think.
anyway, i think the simplest way to reduce vis_leafs is to reduce the complexity of the vis data, so, for example, convert sticky outey bits into func_walls.
Mike
#2965 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.4] on 2004/12/26 14:09:55
The most common cause for that warning is a leak. Assuming you've already checked that, the "vis leafs" is the first of the two values that vis prints out at startup (can also be read from the prt file), the other being the portals.
AFAIK, a vis leaf is an empty volume inside the map that the player can theoretically be in, regardless of size. Each leaf borders either to solid faces or other leafs via portals ("doors" between leafs).
The more complex a map, the more leafs/portals there'll be and the longer vis will take processing it.
Due to a bug in most engines, the max # vis leafs is limited to 8k, otherwise the stack will be trashed and the engine will crash. This is one of the most common causes for an engine crash and it usually happens when trying to load a big leaky map.
In my engines, I've upped the limit to 32k and added a protection for amounts beyond that. Like necros said, try to reduce complexity to get down vis leafs.
Well
#2966 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/26 14:15:53
I want to ask a question that I wanted to ask a long long time ago.
How to make trigger_shooter work as trigger_spikeshooter? I mean it should start to shoot when player enters the trigger zone and stop to shoot when player leaves the zone of the trigger that is targeted at shooter.
So far even if I give it a targetname it always shoot, no matter where the player is.
Pulsar
#2967 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/26 14:47:02
have you tried calling it a trap_spikeshooter?
More Detail
#2968 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/26 14:54:46
pulsar - although i've never used shooters before, i'm just looking at the QC, and they seem simple enough. Just hook a trap_spikeshooter up to a trigger_multiple (with "wait" set to the time between spike firings) and bob's your uncle!
Vis_leafs
#2969 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/26 15:35:17
OK, something going on here that doesn't make sense to me.
I spent the morning clearing leaks: the map had all of its major brushwork in place and up to this point I had been using -nofill in Qbsp. I then ran Qbsp normally (about ten times), using each generated .pts file to clear all leaks and eventually running a quick vis all without problems.
Only then did I add my dozen or so brushes, all inside the sealed map. Does this mean/suggest that these few brushes pushed vis_leaves over the top?
I have since changed 200ish brushes to func_walls to see if this would make a difference, and it didn't.
Right now, I intend to retrace my steps from the pre-leakcheck map to see if I can recreate the problem: of course, I can't get the vis-leaf count as I go as I have leaks. Is this Catch22?
Anyway, thanks for your input.
Kinn
#2970 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/26 16:14:08
I understand what I say, I know that.
It seems I need to explain it more: trap_spikeshooter works exactly in the way you described, but it shoots too fast. It hard for player pass thru it without getting damage. Trap_shooter shoots slow (as I want), but it shoots always and triggering it just makes it to shoot faster (like trap_spikeshooter does).
So I want to know if it is possible to make it start to shoot only after triggering it and not from the time the has been loaded.
Oh
#2971 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/26 16:14:57
the has been loaded.
the map has been loaded.
Pulsar
#2972 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/26 16:35:16
I take it you are using a trigger_multiple to trigger the trap_spikeshooter, yes?
Just set the trigger_multiple's "wait" field to the time you want to elapse between spike firings. The trigger_multiple's default wait is 0.2 secs, so if you don't set it, the spikes will be launched at a rate of 5 per second.
Hey
#2973 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/26 16:39:52
I haven't thought about it in a such way. I'm going to check it right now.
Mike
#2974 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.192] on 2004/12/26 17:15:25
AFAIK, you'll get the vis leaf warning also when the map leaks (which is the normal reason why the amount is so high). Having a sealed map with >8k leafs usually means >24k portals and then you'll have a fullvis nightmare ...
If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map and I'll take a look at it.
Funny Really
#2975 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/27 07:12:47
I have this 'system' that I use when working on a map: I compile regularly (like every 15 minutes) using Qbsp -nofill, and Light, which also saves the work done so far. Every so often I will save the WIP with a new name, in this case SM40_mw1.map, SM40_mw2.map etc. Occaisionally, I will try some major change that I am not sure about and will use the file test.map so if it doesn't work I can just dump it and continue where I left off.
So, I am moving a piece of terrain that is on a grid of 1536 x 1536 x 768 - this is big so I use test.map to try it out first. It's a success and I am so pleased that I continue leak testing (post 2969 above) and resolve every leak. Then I go and have some lunch.
When I come back I load the last map (SM4_mw9.map) and continue polishing. I add my 12 extra brushes, compile and... get the vis_leaf problem. WTF, it worked before lunch? But of course as we all know now, the last map I saved was called test.map and had all of my leak fixing in it - I had forgotten to save it with the usual series name.
Oh well, at least with the system I use, when I retraced my steps back to the last good map and then worked forward, as soon as I got to the need to move the piece of terrain I realised what had happened. Only wasted a couple of hours and now back on track, no leaks, full vised, so polishing continues.
There's a moral there somewhere...
Mike
#2976 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/27 08:20:29
The moral of the story is: mapping editors need a built-in database system for tracking changes. Something like CVS or Subversion (which are used for tracking changes in big software projects).
#2977 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/27 08:25:04
There's a moral there somewhere...
Always Backup Your Maps*
*even if you are easy to confuse
QuakeC Help Needed
#2978 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/27 09:24:22
I am getting to the phase where I should be adding gameplay to apinaraivo.bsp and I am in need of QuakeC help. I need to port the Mega-Enforcer for Zerstörer and something from Scourge of Armagon over to the ID sources. If anyone would be so kind as to do this for me (should be pretty trivial for a person fluent in QuakeC, which I am not), please get in touch. My eternal gratitude is assured.
Jago
#2979 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/27 09:29:32
What the heck, I'll sort you out ;) What is it you need from SoA exactly?
Kinn
#2980 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/27 09:35:08
I sent a email to the address mentioned in your profile.
Jago
#2981 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/27 09:38:51
sorry - could you resend to:
bdwooding - at - gmail - dot - com
thanks :)
/me needs to update his profile
Resent
#2982 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/27 09:41:35
[nt]
Kinn
#2983 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.11] on 2004/12/28 11:08:24
Have you received my last three emails?
AguirRe
#2984 posted by Kinn [81.156.39.218] on 2004/12/28 14:27:37
don't worry, I'm getting round to it (blame christmas ;)
My Head Fucking Hurts :o
#2985 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/28 17:47:22
Just for kicks, try compiling the hipnotic sources with FrikQCC, put a monster_scourge into a map (the mechanical scorpion from SoA), compile and run the map. Notice how after dying, no centripede doesn't have any death animation whatsoever and just "stops" with his body becoming non-solid (as in, you can walk through him). The original hipnotic progs,dat file however, works just fine.
After pulling my hair out for an hour, I realise that what we have here is a bug in THE BLOODY QUAKEC COMPILER! I downloaded some bizarre ProQCC release from 1997, it compiled the code and everything worked as advertised. Ugh.
A Few Noob Questions
#2986 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 18:14:16
I'm currently making a quake sp map and Im quite confident I will finish this as alot of the structure is in place.
Having never really got this far when creating a map, it leaves me not too hot with entities so here goes..
I want two doors to open reveiling a monster behind each (already in place), but I want the doors to only open once the four monsters that your fighting have been killed.
Secondly I want a button to trigger a door open only once two of the buttons have been pressed, I've seen this in some maps and it has an on screen message "1 more left".
Also one other thing, is it possible to make a monster or a set of monsters "spawn" as you pass over a trigger or a button?
If anyone could shed any light over these I would be most greatful.
Gib
#2987 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 18:51:48
I want two doors to open reveiling a monster behind each (already in place), but I want the doors to only open once the four monsters that your fighting have been killed.
Secondly I want a button to trigger a door open only once two of the buttons have been pressed, I've seen this in some maps and it has an on screen message "1 more left".
You need to you use trigger_counter. Create a trigger_counter, give it a targetname (counter1 for example), fill the 'count' field with the number of monsters/buttons you need to activate it (4 (monsters) or 2 (buttons) for you), and then fill the 'target' fill as for usual trigger. Then target buttons or monsters to that trigger (for example 4 monsters should have 'target' field with 'counter1' value.
Also one other thing, is it possible to make a monster or a set of monsters "spawn" as you pass over a trigger or a button?
You need to create a room somewhere, place monster there, cover him with trigger_teleport and give this trigger_teleport any targetname. Then target your trigger or button to that teleport.
I hope it's clear.
Replis
#2988 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2004/12/28 18:55:22
I want two doors to open reveiling a monster behind each (already in place), but I want the doors to only open once the four monsters that your fighting have been killed.
Target each of the four monsters to a trigger_counter, give it a "count" value of "4", and if desirable set spawnflag 1 to make it not print out "there are more to go..." messages when you kill the monsters.
Secondly I want a button to trigger a door open only once two of the buttons have been pressed, I've seen this in some maps and it has an on screen message "1 more left".
Exactly same as above, just set "count" to "2" and target trigger_counter with the buttons instead of the monsters.
Also one other thing, is it possible to make a monster or a set of monsters "spawn" as you pass over a trigger or a button?
You have to make this happen by creating a small box outside the map, place the monsters you want to spawn inside, place individual trigger_teleport over each monster, give the teleporters a common "targetname" like, say, "spawn_monsters" or something, and target each of the teleports to their own info_teleport_destination placed where you want them to appear in the map. Triggering the teleport(s) will now spawn the monsters at the info_teleport_destination(s).
Omg Double Penetration :/
#2989 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2004/12/28 18:56:07
VPhysics Penetration Error!
Czg
#2990 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 19:02:31
heh
.
#2991 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 19:06:08
The counter thing worked great and I can complete some more of the set pieces now, thanks. As for the monster spawning haven't tried that yet but sounds easy enough.
I just wonder if the trigger_counter needs to be an entity that's pressed, passed through or touch by the player or can it reside anywhere within the level?
Gib
#2992 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 19:09:46
I just wonder if the trigger_counter needs to be an entity that's pressed, passed through or touch by the player or can it reside anywhere within the level?
No, it's brush-entity, but you just vreate it somewhere, no matter where, it doesn't need to be touched.
Another Question
#2993 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 19:36:18
Is it possible to set it so that once you've hit a certain monster to a cetain % health left, you can make it teleport away before it dies.
e.g. Just like spawning monsters into a level but spawning this particular one to a different location triggered by it reaching a certain set health level, if you know what I mean.
Gib
#2994 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 19:44:20
afaik only death of the monster can trigger anything.
But
#2995 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 19:46:05
you may use trigger_relay and spawn in monsters after some time after the first trigger has been activated.
.
#2996 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 19:49:22
I was thinking more along the lines of a boss type monster spawning in, then fighting then spawning out when it was almost dead and to do this a varying stages of the map up until the final battle.
#2997 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 19:54:54
I was thinking more along the lines of a boss type monster spawning in, then fighting then spawning out when it was almost dead and to do this a varying stages of the map up until the final battle.
That sounds too complex for quake, it seems you need another engine or at least custom qc.
The Recurring Boss Monster
#2998 posted by Preach [217.43.89.166] on 2004/12/28 20:25:24
That would certainly be possible in QC, but how you'd put it into the map would, of course, depend on how you coded it. If you want to use a custom mod for your map, I would write this part of it, e-mail me if you're interested. I am going away for new years, so if you want a simple boss(like a basic quake monster with just ajusted stats and this ability) I could do that tomorrow. If you wanted something more complex, like changed AI or some totally new creature, it would have to wait until next week(and would likely take even longer than that...)
.
#2999 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 20:50:10
My idea was to encounter a vore or shambler (boss creature) and just before the last shot made on him he would teleport out with a system message "Not this time" or something similar. When it teleports out it would target another trigger spawning in some mobs like ogres / zomies.. Then further on in the level do the same kinda setup with maybe a different message "Your getting closer". It doesn't neccesarily need to be the same vore/shambler, just have the ability to spawn out before death with a setable system message each time.
The final battle can just be a normal vore/shambler that will die and thus completing the mission.
I hope that makes sense, basically don't need new AI or anything like that :)
Post #3000
#3000 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/28 21:00:03
probably you could just change the death animation of those monsters into something like spawning or make some similar effect via qc as Preach offers.
.
#3001 posted by Gib [81.178.82.133] on 2004/12/28 21:09:26
Ah yea that sounds like a good / less complicated idea and I could use a trigger_counter with 1 to trigger the message when the teleport anim/sound plays.
Well...
#3002 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/28 23:32:56
the obvious solution would be to have to seperate versions of the monster. one that does the teleport flash as it dies and another that just plain dies. centerprints can be handled by trigger_relays as usual, and monsters fire off their targets when they die.
just a fast cnp qc job, really.
don't look at me though.
Err...
#3003 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/29 00:36:27
...didn't the boss wraith in DoE teleport? Sure it was to a place behind or near to the player, but that's easily changed.
Jago
#3004 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/29 04:04:33
Yes. The Hipnotic/FrikQCC thing is worrying as FrikQCC is supposedly the "gold standard" for QuakeC compilers now, and everyone uses it. That said, I've been using it to compile all my stuff for years now, and I've never met any problems except when I turn optimisations on - some optimisations (I can't pinpoint which exactly) seem to turn my progs.dat into garbage :P
Animated Textures
#3005 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/29 07:47:55
Aw come on! Just as I think it's done, I find another problem...
TreeQBSP tells me that it has found all of the textures in the .wad file. It tells me that it has added x number of textures. But in-game I am seeing the dreaded pink/black texture as one of the frames.
I know (from earlier posts) that I could add the missing textures to 'hidden' faces in the map but I would have to do that manually as BspEditor doesn't show the individual frame textures, only the animated version.
But why would this be happening and why are other animated textures displaying correctly? This is a 64 x 64 texture based on ID's tlight02 i.e. +0tlight02, +1tlight02, +2tlight02, +3tlight02 and +atlight02.
Help will be appreciated.
Mike
#3006 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2004/12/29 09:29:31
Wait, you only get the pink/black texture as one of the five frames?
Mike
#3007 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.106] on 2004/12/29 09:45:58
If it only happens in FitzQuake 0.75, then it's a known and fixed engine bug. I think it's because only some of the animated frames contain fullbright pixels and others don't.
Textures
#3008 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/29 11:57:37
R.P.G. - yes, appears to be just one of the frames missing.
aguirRe - looks like you have something - it's OK in your GLQuake and also in DarkPlaces. Unfortunately, the Fog effect is lost and I want to keep it. So, I will adjust the Brites out of the texture in TexMex.
By the way, are you saying that there is a 'fixed' version of Fitzquake somewhere 'cause I can't see it on the FQ web-site?
Fixed
#3009 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/29 12:26:18
Once aguiRre put me on the right trail, my own memory clicked into gear (age is against me chaps!)
There is a slight problem with TexMex's Remove Brites function in that it leaves White (255,255,255) in place. Therefore, although you think you have circumvented the problem with FitzQuake's fullbright handling in animated textures, you haven't as you still have a fullbright in the texture.
So, change the dirtywhite to dirtierwhite, and change the white(255,255,255) to dirtywhite, and hey presto, it works correctly in FitzQuake.
Mind you, now that I've seen it, I'm not so sure that it was worth all the fuss. Ho hum.
You'll see what I mean in SM40. Thanks guys.
Kinn,
#3010 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2004/12/29 12:41:46
i've always been using the ancient 1997 version of ProQCC. nesp02 was compiled with proqcc, as was every other release i've made with modififed code.
i have never had any problems with proqcc and haven't ever seen the need to switch. whatever limitations proqcc may have, it's never stopped me from doing what i wanted to do.
Mike
#3011 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.32] on 2004/12/29 13:47:34
AFAIK the problem is fixed in the upcoming FitzQuake 0.80. Maybe metl could fill me in here ...
AguirRe
#3012 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.35.222] on 2004/12/29 14:02:04
How do I get your light to spit out a .lit file? I've gotten it to work with Tyrlite, but I have some ugly results. I saw no clear way to do this in the -help command, and instead of thouroughly researching I thought I'd ask you.
You Can't
#3013 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.123] on 2004/12/29 14:28:56
I have no support (nor any plans) for coloured lighting in my light tool. TyrLite is probably your best bet here. The only other coloured light tool I know is TomLite, but I think it's based on an earlier version of TyrLite.
.
#3014 posted by Gib [81.178.68.125] on 2004/12/29 18:58:07
Is it possible to have a lift/door go down on one button and then up again on another, then on and on and on?
Trigger Help
#3015 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/29 19:43:45
How would I go about doing the following:
Player steps into a trigger_once, thus triggering a bunch of lights to turn on and playing a "lights turned on" sound. Wait 1 sec. Another bunch of lights gets turned on with a "lights turned on" sound. Wait 2 seconds, another even is triggered.
Some parts I do understand how to do. However, I don't know how to make the delays in triggering the lights and how to make an appropriate sound play once it's triggered.
Gib...
#3016 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/29 20:11:24
...if it's just one level down and one level up then use door for the lift and check the 'toggle' flag.
Jago...
#3017 posted by distrans [203.32.39.126] on 2004/12/29 20:14:55
...trigger_relay is your friend in this instance. You can give them all the same name but have them target different light groups with an increasing 'wait' time for each one.
But be very careful, as Quake will very quickly crash if you try to overlay too many light sources on a face.
Teleporting Boss Monsters
#3018 posted by Preach [217.43.89.166] on 2004/12/29 20:40:17
Woo, made the mod, and a short test map to demonstrate it. All in the following zip
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
Distrans
#3019 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/29 20:42:20
Wonderful! This worked perfectly. Now how would I go about having a sound that would play only once when it's triggered by something? Do I need custom QuakeC for that?
Preach
#3020 posted by Gib [81.178.68.125] on 2004/12/29 21:03:55
That is perfect just what I was after, thanks
.
#3021 posted by Gib [81.178.68.125] on 2004/12/29 21:12:43
Seem to have encountered a problem, I put the bsp in the mod folder and use monster_shalrath_tele in the map and for some reason it doesn't spawn the other monsters. I have it so that once you kill the monsters the shalrath_tele gets spawned in.
I am using -game from, run, and yourmap worked fine.
Jago
#3022 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/30 03:48:04
sound that would play only once when it's triggered by something
mail me your zipped QC source and I'll hook you up ;)
Kinn
#3023 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/30 05:36:06
sent you an email
..
#3024 posted by Preach [217.43.89.166] on 2004/12/30 05:41:30
Did you name the other monsters as normal? I didn't change anything besides the code for the shambler and vore. Don't call the other monsters monster_ogre_tele or something, give them all their usual names. Other than that I can't say what's causing it, try some of the ID maps and see if the monsters work in those...
Entity Count
#3025 posted by mikewoodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 09:38:36
I have 480 entities in my map according to TreeQbsp, of which 360 are lights. How many monster can I expect to place (there are none at present) before I hit problems?
How does a dead monster's back pack affect this count?
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the position of the info_teleport_destination to allow me to teleport more than one monster at a time (I haven't tried it but am thinking two monsters, not touching, in one trigger_teleport box) i.e. in top view, does the info_teleport_destination brush line up to the centre of the trigger_teleport or maybe the left hand corner etc?
I am going to need to teleport monsters in and I thought that I could save on entities somehow - I can't use the progs.dat that I used previously as that is banned in SM40 comp rules.
Entity Limits
#3026 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.161] on 2004/12/30 10:33:27
There are several limits that can cause you problems. In normal engines you can have 256 static ents (unusual to exceed this limit) and 600 "edicts" (which I believe is similar to ents).
In my engines you'll get warnings when exceeding these limits. You can always check current edict amount with the edictcount command (first number). Always check while playing on Hard and in god/quad/RL mode.
Regardless of these limits, you can have various engine overflow issues (e.g. packet overflows or invisible ents) before or after vis.
Info_teleport_destination
#3027 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/30 11:19:32
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the position of the info_teleport_destination
You seem to misunderstand: info_teleport_destinations ( or any info_ entity ) are point entities, not brush entities. That means you should place them in a map exactly as you would the info_player_start or a monster_ of some sort i.e. like sticking a pin in a cork map board.
Keep its origin at least 64 units from any walls and 32 units above the floor.
Because of this, any two or more monsters teleported to the same info_teleport_destination simultaneously will immediately telefrag each other. Count the gibs! :D
This has occassionalyl been used intentionally for effect, as at the end of one of the Prodigy SE maps where a bunch of zombies were telefragged to rains gibbage over the player.
However, as a means to limit the entity count in your map, it will not work.
What you would need to do to have several monsters appearing at the same destination is to stagger their teleporting by a few seconds each. Or, more simply, use more than 1 info_teleport_destination near ( but not too near ) each other.
Kell
#3028 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 13:16:17
Thanks, you have answered the main point of my question in that one cannot teleport two monsters from the same trigger_teleport box.
The other question still remains and I'll try to explain in more (but still not technically correct) detail. I am not interested in the programming side of things, only relating the editor to the game.
The info_teleport_destination entity is a fixed size when displayed in the editor, regardless of how big the brush is from which the entity is created. The trigger_teleport box can be as big as you like and generally is made to be slightly larger than the monster to be tranported. The monsters each have their fixed-size box when displayed in the editor.
So, when the monster teleports into the game, from the editor's point of view, does the centre of the monster line up with the centre of the info_teleport_destination ? You clearly know that the origin needs to be 64 units from the wall and 32 above the floor - but why? I don't recall ever placing the info_teleport_destination above the 'floor' level except where I wanted monsters falling from above the player, and through simple experiment, I know that the ogre still teleports OK even when the i_t_d is up to 8 units BELOW floor level.
I am trying to find out how the monsters bounding box relates the position of the i_t_d in the editor. The i_t_d is 40 units tall and if you place it on the floor in the editor, the monsters still drops maybe 8 units(?) when it teleports in. Therefore the monsters head must also be higher.
Ordinarilly, this is not an issue as space is available in the game's environment. However, where space is an issue, it's important.
I relise that I could have worked all this out in the time it has taken to type this post: I only asked in the first place because I'm not into re-inventing the wheel and I thought someone would know the answer off the top of the head.
And I would still like a judgement on the likely number of monsters I might achieve and whether monsters back packs affect things. Non-teknikal now :-)
#3029 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/30 13:50:17
The info_teleport_destination entity is a fixed size when displayed in the editor, regardless of how big the brush is from which the entity is created.
This is the confusion; there isn't a brush for an info_teleport_destination, only a colored box that gives an estimate of the size of the player. Only func_ and trigger_ entities have brushes.
Unless your editor is somehow unable to represent point entities as anything other than brushes or you are using a custom version of the info_teleport_destination.
What you should be seeing is a solid-color box about the size of the player.
Here is a screenshot of GtkRadiant:
http://kell.spawnpoint.org/screens...
In the 3D view, the i_t_d is selected and highlighted. Next to it is an info_player_start which is exactly the same size and shape. It is likewise a point entity.
The center point of the i_t_d rests on the grid crosshair in the center of the red selection outline as seen in the 2D views - this is the point where I placed the entity, and this is where the game will position a monster when it teleports.
Kell
#3030 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 14:38:28
Different editors, different phraseology, same thing.
In the 3D view I can see a model of the player, not just a bounding box (and my editor is 6 years old!). I can only see a wire-frame version of the i_t_d. In the top, right and front views, the player is 32 units square and 48 units tall. The i_t_d is 16 units square and 40 units tall.
In your screen shot, the centre of the i_t_d appears to be on grid x128, y0. My question was, will the teleporting monster land also centred on x128, y0?
The bit about 'the brush from which the entity is created' is just that as you click and drag the mouse in the (say) top view, you create a brush and it appears in the 3D view as you draw. You fix that brush by pressing Return to de-select it. But if before you press Return you select the Entity list (press E) you can turn that brush into an entity, which will immediately resize to its default if it has one or remain at the drawn size if the entity size is variable. Hence, 'the brush from which the entity is created' - just phraseology.
So anyway, what about the likely monster count?
Brush/entity
#3031 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 14:47:26
If I want to turn an existing brush into an entity, let's say because it happens to be the right size for a door and I want to add a door where the brush is, left-shift and left-click to select it, E for the entity list, select func-door, press return and the brush becomes a door.
I thought all editors worked like that?
#3032 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/30 14:57:05
Ah ok, it was a matter of terminology. That's cool, as long as it's clear now :)
My question was, will the teleporting monster land also centred on x128, y0?
Yes, the origin of the monster will be placed exactly on the origin of the i_t_d. Which is why I stated those values - 32 above the floor and 64 from any walls. The ceiling should be a good bit more above, just for aesthetics ;)
Regarding monster counts: it does depend on which engines you want your map to be playable in, since they have different limits for total entities on mapload and also for what could be handled on screen in any given combat.
I don't really know these sorts of values exactly, that would be for an engine coder to answer accurately. But as a rough guide, my Contract Revoked maps had up to 101 monsters plus lots of walltorches and ran in GLQuake without choking.
I think PuLSaR's more recent Menkalinan had a few more beasties than that and ran perfectly well in FitzQuake.
Kinn's latest map, otoh, contains a veritable army and so far doesn't run so well in FitzQuake, though it does load.
I'd say generally, when you reach 100 monsters in a single map, you should already know where the end is.
#3033 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/30 15:02:10
I thought all editors worked like that?
Nope. All the Quake editors I've tried have separate methods for placing point and brush entities. Points are simply selected from a list and placed on a grid intersection, or placed on a grid intersection and selected from a list; hence the 'pin in a map' analogy. No brushes are involved.
Uph
#3034 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2004/12/30 16:42:57
you can have 256 static ents (unusual to exceed this limit)
I wish it was so unusual for me...
Just For Info...
#3035 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 18:14:40
... I have now played around with this transporting lark a bit more. And using the Ogre as an example:-
1. the trigger_teleport does not need to surround the monster entity in its out-of-the-way room. It works when any part of the trigger is overlapping any part of the monster's bounding box. I don't know if that is of any use?
2. the ogre spawns 10 units above the lowest point of the i_t_d, so the i_t_d can be placed on the floor of the map
3. the ogre's bounding box is 64 units square and it needs just one unit either side to manouvre after spawning, but nothing behind. The i_t_d can be placed with its centre 32 units from the rearmost obstruction.
4. the ogre's bounding box is 88 units high and he needs 99 units above the lowest point of the i-t_d (which is 88 units for the ogre, 10 units for the fall in item 2 above, and 1 unit clearance.
The above is when considering the centre of both the Ogre's bounding box and the i_t_d to be the same in the top view, and when the lowest part of both the Ogre's bounding box and the i_t_d are on the same grid reference in the front or side view.
An' I thank you.
Entities
#3036 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2004/12/30 18:56:27
My current project (a Q1SP map) has 463 entities of which 371 are lights and I haven't even started placing down monsters yet...
Entities
#3037 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/30 19:24:00
488 of which 370 are lights, and I am just about to start placing monsters. I'll let you know how I get on.
#3038 posted by Scampie [66.188.106.152] on 2004/12/30 21:29:45
I think most modern light compilers remove static light ents from the map after generating the lightmap, but I could be wrong.
AguirRe
#3039 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/31 03:52:02
Are my emails arriving ok? I've sent quite a few recently :)
Kinn
#3040 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.249] on 2004/12/31 05:42:50
Yes, I've received them. I'll get back to you.
Odd Question
#3041 posted by Kinn [81.138.30.1] on 2004/12/31 10:54:48
Not really a burning issue, but something that has always intrigued me: in the QC, what does the "th_" prefix stand for on the monster ai functions? (like .th_walk, .th_die etc.)
Error Message
#3042 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2004/12/31 11:06:06
I get an error message in QBSP that goes something like this:
WARNING: Brush with duplicate plane on line XXX
What does it mean??
I get like 50 of them all on diffrent lines.
Will it cause trouble?
Kinn
#3043 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2004/12/31 11:28:19
Those are function pointers to their respective ai functions (th_walk is walking, etc). Its like 'when i am told to die i go to the function that is enforcer_die()' (or whatever). Sort of like a finite state machine.
NotoriousRay
#3044 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.111] on 2004/12/31 12:09:58
Lol, yes but what I meant was: What is the historical significance of the "th_" prefix? Or more specifically, what is "th" short for?
Think?
#3045 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2004/12/31 12:12:41
Yes.
#3046 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2004/12/31 13:24:25
what kell said.
Aha
#3047 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.111] on 2004/12/31 13:53:14
Yes, that makes sense.
AguirRe
#3048 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2004/12/31 16:22:52
During polishing my entry to SM40, I moved a couple of brushes and now have a leak through a solid brush.
I have used the -nosortface option and no longer get a leak reported. Clip-nodes are not an issue as I had already made good use of clip-brushes. I have fast vised and it looks OK in-game.
What does -nosortface do and why should I not use it all the time? (You probably know why I am getting the leaks - you've seen the map before allbeit that it didn't have the SM40 bits in it)
Ah, I see from the time that you are probably building up the alcohol levels at present so hopefully I will hear from you sometime next year!
Dakza
#3049 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.145] on 2005/01/01 11:46:07
Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips document at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k (link bottom right). It contains among other things
explanations on some of the warning/error messages from the tools.
Mike
#3050 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.145] on 2005/01/01 11:48:36
-nosortface just disables the automatic brush face sorting before build. This is done to make builds more consistent, since some editors (e.g. QuArK) shuffles the faces around between builds.
Theoretically, the face order shouldn't make any difference, but it does (as you've already noticed). Apart from the consistency, the chosen order is also an attempt to improve build quality by putting faces on opposite brush sides next to each other. Don't ask me why this helps ...
Normally, I definitely recommend to keep the automatic sorting to avoid e.g. leaks popping in and out between different saved map versions. If you choose to disable the sorting, there's also another face order you can try (if the current doesn't help). Just use my ConvMap utility to reverse all faces in all brushes, e.g. convmap -r -i sm40. See the readme for more details.
AguirRe
#3051 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/01 12:17:06
OK, thanks.
I See...
#3052 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2005/01/01 19:19:29
Nice txt file by the way... q1 is lucky to have you.
Thanks
#3053 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.59] on 2005/01/02 06:18:56
Q1 is even luckier to have mappers still creating new material.
Scampie's Post, No. 3038
#3054 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/02 11:08:40
Hang on, what's the implication here? If the light entities are removed from the map (.bsp file), does this mean I can put more monsters in?
Where, or when, is the entity limit significant? Do the compilers baulk at large numbers of entites or is it just the engine? I have 597 fixed or modifiable entities in my version of SM40, of which 392 are lights. I would happily put more monsters in as I get the distinct impression that players like lots of opposition when playing.
I am just about to do a final, full overnight vis, so any answers today will be appreciated.
Also...
#3055 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/02 11:16:37
... Light before Vis or Vis before Light?
It Duzzn't Mattah!
#3056 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/01/02 11:28:10
Really duzzn't mattah!
Mike
#3057 posted by Kinn [217.43.151.34] on 2005/01/02 11:38:28
All light entities are stripped out when the level loads, with two exceptions:
1) Switchable lights, because these need to hang around so that they can be "triggered".
2) Lights with models (torches etc.) However, these get turned into static entities, and therefore do not contribute to the edict count.
Bear in mind that there is nothing significant about light entities that distinguishes them from other entities. By this I mean (although there's not much point) you can give any entity a "light" field, and the light compiler will light the surrounding area accordingly. This is why most light entities are stripped out on level load; they just act as placeholders for light information, and do nothing else.
In conclusion, you could have thousands of light entities in your map, and it would cause no overhead if they all get stripped out at startup.
Thanks
#3058 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/02 13:40:15
for your responses.
Ah...
#3059 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/01/03 20:08:10
In conclusion, you could have thousands of light entities in your map, and it would cause no overhead if they all get stripped out at startup.
...that's comforting, ta mauch!
Quake 2 Compile Tools And Texture Sets
#3060 posted by Jago [80.222.165.133] on 2005/01/05 08:21:46
What custom compile utilities exist for Quake 2 and what are their main advantages over the vanilla ones? Also, where would I go to download some good custom texture sets for Quake 2?
#3061 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.31] on 2005/01/05 10:23:00
if you can find the latest GDDBSP and GDDVIS, and ArghRad, those were the top of the line for Q2 last I knew, that being right before q3 came out, not sure exactly what GDD bsp and vis added, but arghrad has a ton of extras, including phong shading.
good luck on custom textures. weren't many sets, because q2 doesn't have .pk3 formats and textures aren't included in the bsp so they never caught on.
Jago
#3062 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.143] on 2005/01/05 10:29:31
on the Rust message board http://gamedesign.net/,
Tim Wright is still updating his Arghrad tool, famous for adding phong shading (it adds smooth shading to corners and rounded areas). Other tool links can be found there as well, though I believe in most cases the Quark tools may be the most current.
As for custom texture sets for Quake2. I would suggest hitting the wadfather (planethalflife/wadfather), and it may be helpful to know this as well: I have never known any Quake 2 enthusiest to have any apprehension in using the customized versions of the Q2 engine (like Quake2Max for instance).
The pallette for Q2 is more restrictive than Q1 IMHO. In other words, you can get away with using q3, Unreal or any other texture set without getting bitched at.
Jago:
#3063 posted by metlslime [64.124.188.211] on 2005/01/05 15:04:30
oblivion textures: ftp://ftp.celephais.net/pub/textur...
Hmm
#3064 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2005/01/05 22:33:36
I did find ArghRad quite easily, but I couldn't find GDDBSP and GDDVIS. Could anyone provide a direct link or send them to my email if you have them on your PC?
Metlslime: thanks.
Re: Compilers
#3065 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.131] on 2005/01/05 23:47:54
Arghrad definitely.
As for the gdd compilers, i heard good things about them, but checked my old batch files and it seems i was still using qbsp3 and qvis3 when i last did quake2 stuff.
Jago
#3066 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.31] on 2005/01/06 01:17:48
http://home.insightbb.com/~gryndeh...
Mirrored Textures
#3067 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2005/01/07 12:07:27
Is there some way to mirror a texture using gtkradiant? For example a texture thats only half an arch.
Flip-Flop
#3068 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/07 12:09:15
use a negative value for the X axis texture scale
Hmm
#3069 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2005/01/07 13:28:45
Im sorry but it seem that in the surface inspector there's no option for X axis texture scale. Only horizontal and vertical. Tried flipping the brush X-wise but the texture dont stick. Im useing ver 1.4
Yes
#3070 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/07 13:45:40
by X axis I meant Horizontal stretch. Sorry, i was thinking in terms of a paint prog.
Niiiice!
#3071 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.98] on 2005/01/07 13:58:08
(nt)
AguirRe
#3072 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/01/07 16:11:52
I got a question for you.
As I mentioned before in GA thread, I got a new PC. Fitzquake started to render properly (080beta), but your glquake started not to render in the way that it should. All textures look grey, but lighting effects still exist.
Is there any solution for me?
You Should Probably
#3073 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/07 16:27:22
find out what kind of video card you have.
Well
#3074 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/01/07 16:32:48
I know it's all because of new video card. It's rather shite (all-uncluding-mega-motherboard), but is there any way to avoid this rendering problem without changing my videocard?
PuLSaR
#3075 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.16] on 2005/01/07 18:34:08
I have no idea, GLQuake doesn't require much to work. Have you tried the old GLQ 0.97 or other engines? Have you checked the console at startup for error messages or other info? Enable option -condebug for logging to file and send me the zipped file.
Having grey textures sounds a lot like a texture problem. Is it the same problem regardless of map?
Maybe you'd better send me all this info in an email instead.
Well
#3076 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/01/07 18:41:42
Having grey textures sounds a lot like a texture problem. Is it the same problem regardless of map?
No, that's not a texture problem. To be more correct I should say that every wall is just grey with no texes on it.
Maybe you'd better send me all this info in an email instead.
I wanted to do it, but I don't have a mail client so far (I'll get it tomorrow) so I decided to post it here first. I think I'll send you a mail with screenshots and more details tomorrow.
By Texture
#3077 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.16] on 2005/01/07 18:54:14
problem I meant that the uploading of texes to the card doesn't work properly. Maybe a multitexture problem, try -nomtex option.
I did a quick search on usenet and suggestions were bad drivers (update available?), 16/32 bpp issues (try using same depth as the desktop) or even the classic 3dfx opengl32.dll file (should be removed from the GLQ dir if you don't have a 3dfx).
Ms2 Mesh Files For Glquake
#3078 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/07 19:38:44
what's the deal with .ms2 files being generated in glquake? does each computer generate a unique file that only works on their computer, or can these ms2 files be packaged in a .pak file so that players don't have to sit and wait for all the new models to mesh the first time?
PuLSaR
#3079 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/07 19:41:58
To be more correct I should say that every wall is just grey with no texes on it.
It sounds like what you're seeing is the lightmap. Which implies that the textures aren't being loaded at all.
Necros
#3080 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.34] on 2005/01/07 20:18:13
AFAIK the meshes are only depending on the mdl file so they can be pre-made and distributed with the pak. Note that only mdl files in the progs dir (not subdirs) are meshed. Also note that some engines don't use the mesh files at all; they rebuild from mdl each time.
...
#3081 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/07 20:37:01
Note that only mdl files in the progs dir (not subdirs) are meshed
haha, don't i know it. ;)
Oh And...
#3082 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/07 20:52:02
can't believe i forgot, but thanks for clarifying that. :)
Ham
#3083 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/07 23:15:26
haha, don't i know it. ;)
:P
Fitzquake HUD
#3084 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/08 05:28:02
I keep losing it: it's there when I start but as soon as I move, it disappears. Drop the console and it comes back, press escape and it comes back. But as soon as I move in-game it goes.
I haven't knowingly changed anything. Any ideas?
Mike?
#3085 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/08 13:02:13
gl_clear is on? although fq is supposed to fix that, and it does on my computer...
Necros
#3086 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/08 14:51:22
Thanks, if I type 'gl_clear 1' at the console my HUD remains on.
Anyone know why it changed or how to fix it permanently?
Mike
#3087 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2005/01/08 14:55:55
did you try different vidcard drivers?
or maybe different fq resolution/bpp?
Vondur
#3088 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/08 15:58:15
Interesting: I changed the bpp from 32 down to 16 and the HUD stays on. So my .bat file now reads, quake.exe -width 1024 -bpp 16.
I wonder if it's been missing all the time but I've only just noticed it? Nah, surely not.
But 'ang On A Mo'...
#3089 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/08 16:04:01
...now when I no_clip, which I'm allowed to do when creating maps, I get this awful reflection/banding/graphic interference on the outside of the playing area. And it goes if I use bpp32.
So, does this mean I can't have my cake and eat it?
Mike:
#3090 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.131] on 2005/01/08 19:35:09
it must be that your drivers clear the screen even if gl_clear is 0. That explains why the hall of mirrors effect you describe in #3089 is new to you, and it explains why fitzquake isn't redrawing the statusbar every frame (becuase it thinks the screen isn't being cleared every frame.)
Solution: gl_clear 1. That way you can keep all your other settings, like bpp and stuff.
Metslime
#3091 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/09 03:44:38
Thanks.
I changed my video card settings on Open GL to Application Preference and hey presto, all OK.
Perhaps they got changed when playing HL2 or Doom3 recently?
Hrimfaxi
#3092 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.16] on 2005/01/09 06:05:52
Have you received my last two emails?
PuLSaR
#3093 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.16] on 2005/01/09 06:07:36
Have you managed to fix the GLQuake problem or have you sent me any info?
AguirRe
#3094 posted by Hrimfaxi [80.165.179.33] on 2005/01/09 10:39:25
Yes! I hope you get my reply!
D3 Sound Question
#3095 posted by ProdigyXL [66.188.62.216] on 2005/01/09 15:15:26
I thought to create a ambient sound you simply used a speaker entitie and assign it a sound within it's property. Appearantly thats not it, any clues how to properly implement ambients?
Texture Question
#3096 posted by ToadWarrior [82.15.137.205] on 2005/01/09 18:29:31
I've never been a huge fan of using textures from other games in Quake but I want to use some from Unreal 1 and Quake 3.
The map is mean to be able to run on any engine. So I'll be using standard wads.
What, if any limitations are there to converting Unreal 1 and QUake 3 textures to Quake?
I've seen both used and I assume they turn out ok. Are there any that just look shit?
To make things easier on me, has anyone already converted those game's texture sets to Quake wads? I'm doubting it due to the legality of posting the wads online.
.
#3097 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/09 20:15:11
some look good, some don't. it's a matter of converting them all and removing the ones that look ass.
in general though, unreal textures tend to look worse than q3 ones do, but only in general. some unreal textures convert over nearly perfectly.
it all depends on the colours used in the original texture and quake's palette.
#3098 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.31] on 2005/01/09 22:01:48
technically, it's illegal to use any other game's textures and release them in anyway in your maps... but most often, it's completely ignored in q1.
only thing I have to add is to remember that q3 textures are double sized, so you'll need to size them down before converting to q1.
Q3 Textures
#3099 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/10 10:58:25
Any good?
http://xen.quakepit.com/tex1.htm
Importing Complex Brushes From Maya / 3DS Max
#3100 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2005/01/10 12:20:57
I am wondering if it's possible to create mapobjects in Maya / 3DS Max and then proceed to import them as brushes into a Q1 or Q2 map? I recall seeing some screenshots of Darkplaces showing off some uber-complicated brush objects in Q1, how was that done? GTKRadiant also seems to be only able to open .map, .reg and .xmap files. How would I go about importing something from a 3D design app?
...
#3101 posted by necros [142.150.5.233] on 2005/01/10 13:00:25
well, you can easily export from 3dsmax as .dxf, or .3ds both of which are easily importable into a .mdl file via qme and i know there is a conversion tool that can convert .mdls over to .map format.
i don't really see the point of this though... most likely you'll get funky compiler errors in q1bsp format.
you may as well just keep mapobjects as models and go from there.
Mdl2map
#3102 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/10 14:43:29
Can anyone point me to a working download?
Also, Tri2map and Raw2map. Like Jago, I want to explore the possibilities.
Sound In Doom 3
#3103 posted by ProdigyXL [141.209.35.75] on 2005/01/10 15:25:59
I'll ask again, how exactly do you implement an ambient sound in Doom 3? I thought you simply used a speaker entity and assigned a sound to that, however it doesn't seem to work. Help anyone?
Legality Of Textures
#3104 posted by ToadWarrior [82.15.137.205] on 2005/01/10 15:36:17
I know it's technically illegal which is why I've avoided it up until now. But since a lot of mappers use them in Quake I'm tempted to as I think there are some that are do look good and I wouldn't mind using 'em.
I'll just dump 'em all and make a little project out of converting them.
Prod:
#3105 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/01/10 16:36:30
Tho I've not touched d3 for awhile, I think you need to set a sound shader to the speaker. Exactly how you do that I'm not sure... I'll try and poke around abit later on tonight with d3 and see what comes up.
Jago
#3106 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.210] on 2005/01/10 20:24:55
if you have 3ds Max you may find this plug-in useful.
http://holodeck.st.usm.edu/vrcompu...
another possibilaty you may want to look into is the splashdamage forum http://www.splashdamage.com/index....
There is alot of discussion on using q3map2 in using .ase's (3ds ascii model format) to accomplish what you are asking.
However, for nonterrain models, Necros is likely correct
Addedum
#3107 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.210] on 2005/01/10 20:31:39
q3map2 is for quake3 Arena of course, but if you can successfully decompile a bsp using ase (I believe spawnflag 6 on the misc_model entity will cause an .ase surface to be treated as a regular brush in terms of collision and lighting), you should be able to further convert it to a Quake1 map file.
Modelling Question
#3108 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/11 03:23:51
Is it at all possible to get a quake1 .mdl loaded into milkshape to have some new animations-made via using bones? (or any other program, I haven't touched em MS3D in ages, but i dont remember mdl support being very good). Id like to do some animations for ....a project, but i dont want to do them by hand (nor do I really have the ability to, qme doesn't like me)
NotRay
#3109 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/11 04:17:13
The person to speak to about this is necros, definately.
but i dont want to do them by hand...qme doesn't like me
I share your pain.
Animation With Bones
#3110 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/01/11 05:02:18
The quake models don't store any bone info,so you'd have to set the skeleton up yourself. But once you did that, there's no reason why you couldn't use them to animate it. If the export to mdl format is lacking, then you can export to md2 or md3, and then convert it using quark.
.
#3111 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/11 13:08:55
afaik, milkshape should accept .dxf or .3ds format, which can be exported from qme, so just load the model in qme, select a frame you'd like to use for the skeleton, then export that one. import in milkshape, rig it, and start animating. it works very well! ^_^
Nat,
#3112 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.168] on 2005/01/11 13:12:59
that shouldn't be a problem. You will have to convert the bone positions into keyframes for your .mdl's. I don't know if Milkshape does it (hard to imagine with the Half-Life and Quake support it would not have that sort of functionality) but Blender has a very good md2 model plugin script as well as skelatal to key frame conversion built in.
ProdigyXL
#3113 posted by DaZ [80.43.69.34] on 2005/01/11 13:39:46
walk around j00r map, then type "editsounds" in the console and ding! there u go, u can bring up this menu in the editor as well by typing editsounds into the console window there, gg.
Daz
#3114 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.31] on 2005/01/11 13:56:28
you are the king of cool for that tip :)
...but Only For The Day
#3115 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.31] on 2005/01/11 13:56:57
let's not get carried away here :D
Thanks Mate
#3116 posted by ProdigyXL [216.111.202.25] on 2005/01/11 14:29:08
I'll try that when I get home from work. Top of the day to ya!
Heh
#3117 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/11 15:44:01
afaik, milkshape should accept .dxf or .3ds format, which can be exported from qme...
Erm, the uh, fully working version of qme i have does not do this. the newer qme (lite?), crippled abandoned version (yet somehow is still for sale) might, but it has that frame limitation.
Oh
#3118 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/11 15:45:45
I guess you meant export one frame, animate using that, then export and somehow merge into the original? I'll try that but seems more difficult that it should be.
Omg
#3119 posted by DaZ [80.43.69.34] on 2005/01/11 17:14:05
what have u done with scampie?! :D
Notray
#3120 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/11 18:00:38
well, someone gave me a full version of the demo... (preach?)
but anyway, yeah, as long as the number of vertices are the same, you can export, bone (heh) and animate, then add new frames into a preexisting monster, no problems.
I'll try that but seems more difficult that it should be.
what other way would there be to do it?
Upgrade 3.0 To 3.1
#3121 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/01/11 18:16:29
If you've got the full version of 3.0, then download the demo of 3.1. It contains a patch that will upgrade the full version from 3.0 to 3.1 full. There is a good reason to do this, as 3.1 will save models as .md2s. These can be imported by milkshape with all the animations intact.
There are two slight problems with this method. One is that you'll lose some precision in the model with all the conversion, but quake isn't too accurate anyway, so no biggie. The other is that you'll rig the skeleton to one frame, and it'll match up with any new animations, but the skeleton will remain totally wrong for all the other frames the model will have. So if you wanted one animation based off the stand pose, and one based off the attack pose, you'd need to rig the skeleton twice. Also modifing previous animations would probably turn out badly, as the skeleton would only line up in one frame.
Basically though, if you just create whole new animations you should be able to do it with no troubles.
In Aguire's Engine:
#3122 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/12 15:52:25
excessive faces 33668. (crashes fq with no error) (fully sealed and vised)
i'm guessing this is actual wpolys and the only way to reduce this is to actually get rid of brushes and therefore faces. am i right?
also, marksurfaces... do they reduce along with faces?
Max Faces
#3123 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.174] on 2005/01/12 16:09:32
is a bit unusual to hit, but AFAIK they are just visible brush faces. Marksurfaces I'm still not sure what they are (except being a problem in some maps).
You could try inserting a big solid brush over some more complex brushwork and see how the faces/marksurfaces are reduced.
Well...
#3124 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/12 21:19:30
i managed to get faces under 32767, but marksurfaces is still over 39000. and the game still crashes. :( how can i lower marksurfaces more without having to take out too many brushes?
Marksurfaces...
#3125 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/12 21:30:35
if a face occupies more than one leaf, it will have one marksurface for each leaf. The only practical way to reduce marksurfaces is to reduce faces, as far as i know.
Ic..
#3126 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/12 21:42:55
well, thanks for the info i guess. :\ more pruning is in order then.
.
#3127 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/13 01:17:12
afaik, milkshape should accept .dxf or .3ds format, which can be exported from qme, so just load the model in qme, select a frame you'd like to use for the skeleton, then export that one. import in milkshape, rig it, and start animating. it works very well! ^_^
How exactly do you get the animation from milkshape into the .mdl file?
I exported a frame from qme (lwo seems to be best for this), made a skeleton, and silly test animation in milkshape. I export from milkshape into md2. I load the new md2 in qme. I export the frames of the new animation (to lwo/dxf/hrc, whatever). I open enforcer.mdl and import the frames but the mesh is messed up. See:
http://s94249274.onlinehome.us/exa...
Note- that is a view from the front (!).
I *think* this could be avoided if there was, god forbid, some documentation on compiling to quake .mdl directly from milkshape. But for the life of me I can find none.
Eh?
Notray...
#3128 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/13 02:18:14
judging by past experience with the same problem and the name or the frame, i'm guessing you mirrored the whole model along the x axis? this screws up the order in which the tris are stored or something like that, so they are all flipped around. have you tried doing animations or a frame without flipping the model? did that get screwed up? (it shouldn't). afaik (and that's not that much) redoing the animation from scratch is the only way to get it working, so you'll have to reanimate the firing frames for the other side...
if anyone else knows better, please speak up, cause i hate to have only bad news. :\
Fixing Those Animations
#3129 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/01/13 02:59:37
It's actually a fairly simple fix to get all the triangles facing the correct direction. Convert the model into a single object, then go to the object transformations. Set the scope to the whole scene. Set the scale on the x axis of the object to -1, and it should now work. Then you can reconstruct objects or reset the pivot if you need to do anything else with the model in qme(although hopefully you shouldn't need to)
Foggy Ambiance
#3130 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/13 03:28:44
I've played yesterday night SM40 contest maps, and I would like to reproduce the "foggy" effects I found into Mike's FMB_SM40 map. So Mike please, could you explain how do you achieve such this kind of effects ???
JPL
#3131 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/13 06:40:40
Fog... glad you liked it. First, take some dry-ice (but be careful as its surface temperature is something like -78c) and drop it into a bucket of water.
Alternatively, a simpler way is to use the _fog entry in the Worldspawn for your map. I used _fog 0.05 for Fmb-sm40, which gives a fairly good effect.
Unfortunately, this is only good for FitzQuake as other engines seem to produce fog in a different way. For example, DarkPlaces seems to just darken everything and this was not the effect I wanted. In FitzQuake you can also enter fog as a command at the console (for any map) so if you load Fmb_sm40 you can adjust the fog before your very eyes.
For anyone who has seen real fog, you would know that it enhances light and gives an almost glowing effect without necessarily making things darker.
It does obviously cut down viewing distance and just for fun I tried it with The Marcher Fortress. It completely ruined the outside areas - the skybox is too far away and became invisible and the skybox was one of the things that made the outside areas look so good.
So, use it carefully and I would recommend understatement rather than the opposite.
Hope that helps.
Fog...
#3132 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/13 06:54:01
you should actually do four numbers for fog in the worldspawn -- density, red, green, and blue, where all 4 numbers should be between 0.0 and 1.0. I think the reason you had problems between fitzquake and darkplaces is that they handle the incorrect worldspawn differently.
Also, you should be able to do "fog" instead of "_fog", though i don't know if this is true for all engines and whatnot.
example: "fog" "0.1 0.3 0.3 0.3"
I Haven't The Foggiest
#3133 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/13 07:01:49
the skybox is too far away and became invisible
I can't speak for DP, but in FQ ( and anywhere else I've seen fog ) the skybox is removed entirely, because the volumetric effect would break the illusion skyboxes are supposed to create and....you wouldn't be able to see the sky if it was foggy anyway :P
Mike & Al...
#3134 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/13 07:23:07
I already known the fog console command, but I never tried it as a worldspwan field (BTW, I didn't know that it was possible, so that's why my question is...), so thank you very much for these great information !!
As well, I've already noticed that with fog you wouldn't be able to see the sky anymore.... anyway, the effect should be particularly dreadful into a cemetery for example....
Thanks again for this cool "ambiance effect related" information...
Skyboxes And Fog
#3135 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.108] on 2005/01/13 08:14:56
In the original Nehahra engines, my upcoming NehQuake 3.01 and GLQ 1.26, you can have both visible skybox and fog. Not every combination is possible, but in most maps it works and can have a stunning effect.
Marcher is not well suited for fog because of the skybox size, rich colours and scenery.
Effin' Fog
#3136 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/13 08:15:13
The FitzQuake ReadMe gave the syntax as either/or.
If you use all four numbers with Darkplaces, I now know that it works as intended in Fmb_sm40
One lives and learns.
Fog...
#3137 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/13 08:42:36
Fog setting with 4 number works fine, so let's go for a "british weather" like map ;D
British Weather
#3138 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/13 10:04:30
would be rain, not fog. And plenty of it.
Bleh..
#3139 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/13 10:07:41
I you can see the sky: it rain, if you cannot see the sky: there's fog ...doh !! Summer starts on 31 of july, and stops 1st of august... peraps you can see the sun by these 2 days, but not more in the year... doh !!!
Fog On 4!!!
#3140 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/13 10:24:38
'kin' 'ell! I haven't seen fog that thick since I was a kid.
Necros/preach:
#3141 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/13 13:13:22
here's what *seems* to work:
- export frame from qme (as lwo)
- import .lwo into milkshape (use the lwo thats the top most, theres a couple lwo import versions)
- rig and animate in milkshape. this is weird because you're animating with the model mirrored (enforcer becomes left handed, for example, i didnt notice this until necros pointed it out).
- export as quake2 .md2
- load .md2 into qme
- export new animation frames (again, using lwo)
- load existing model (enforcer.mdl in my case) in qme
- import previously-exported frames.
- for the new scene/frames, you have to scale bye -1 in x-axis, and also rotate -90 degrees on z axis.
- now a new animation is working and actually has the same mesh & skin as the existing id model.
Subject to change of course. Dxf is a horrible format and milkshape needs way better documentation.
Omg...
#3142 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/13 13:21:52
that is a lot of steps.
usually, what i do is:
-export a frame from qme
-import into 3ds
-rig, animate (and yes, i noticed the reversal too... not sure what causes that though.)
export each frame to dxf files (i don't mind them)
-import them into the model.
can you not export frames in milkshape directly to dxf or lwo or whatever? it seems a lot of extra steps saving as md2 and all that...
also, preach, thanks for the info about resetting the faces. i never ran into exactly the same problem myself as it was under different circumstances that the faces got reversed. :)
RE: Omg...
#3143 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/13 13:43:22
can you not export frames in milkshape directly to dxf or lwo or whatever? it seems a lot of extra steps saving as md2 and all that...
Remember when i said it sounds more difficult than it should be? :|
If theres a way to export individual frames, I don't know it. I went through each frame, while in animation mode, and exported, but it only exported the first frame each time. Sigh.
Also for the record, I just tried rotating/mirroring the mesh in milkshape after the initial import, just to be able to animate non-mirrored and on the right axis as what it will eventually be, and that created a huge ungodly mess. I'll stick with what works for me at the moment, its only a few small animations I want to do anyways.
(and yes, i noticed the reversal too... not sure what causes that though.)
Probably the discrepancy between file formats and how they store data.
Whew!
Alternatively
#3144 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.223] on 2005/01/13 17:02:22
it seems like it would be easier to export all of the frames from milkshape into one folder, create a .qc file listing the frames, and compile it into a mdl with the original Id tools.
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Sure
#3145 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/13 17:25:15
Except you forgot the part where I said you can't export individual frames from milkshape. Hence exporting to md2. Thanks though 8-)
Mike:
#3146 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/13 21:31:02
you're reading the syntax for the fog console command. That's not the same as the syntax for the fog worldspawn value. I guess i never explained how to do it in the worldspawn becuase i thought i was supporting an existing standard. But maybe not... sorry.
Some Useful Tricks
#3147 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/01/14 05:20:54
There's an option in qme preferences, under the import/export tab, called mirror x. Try toggling that on or off. It may not be helpful, as it'll happen on both the import and export, and two reflections will cancel out, and turning it on/off in between import and export is an extra step, which is as much work as mirroring the model. But it might be handy for the milkshape stage, as the model won't be left handed.
Also, in case you're importing/exporting all the frames in a scene individually, use the export scene from the menu, and shift select all the frames in the import dialogue.
But yeah, anything you're gonna do for models in quake is gonna need a fair few steps since three is no single good modelling tool with mdl support.
Hey
#3148 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/14 14:32:46
Cool preach, will try that maybe.
By the by, I did manage to just figure out how to export directly to .mdl from milkshape, you need a control file like this one that i stumbled across:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jmi...
BUT, for some reason when I do this, milkshape for whatever reason removes 4 tris from the enforcer mesh, meaning the new exported model frames can't be merged with the existing .mdl. (MS3D mesh and original .mdl have 424, exported mdl has 420) Thats slightly annoying to say the least.
Oh well, back to animating :)
Map Won't Load...
#3149 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/15 14:54:34
has anyone ever seen this error?
CALL1 512(precache_sound2)precache_sound...
shalrath.qc : monster_shalrath
(NO FUNCTION)
Pf_precache_sound: overflow
Host_Error: Program Error
the vore/shalrath has no modified code. if i remove the shalrath/vore then it happens with another monster.
does this mean the map uses too many sounds to be precached or something?
Yeah...
#3150 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/15 20:45:08
You can only precache up to 256 sounds; after that you will get this error.
I Assume...
#3151 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/15 20:45:46
that this is with a modified progs.dat. Correct?
.
#3152 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/15 22:21:48
aww man.
yeah, it's a modified progs. it allows you to play any sound you want and i've got lots of machinery that all have unique sounds along with lots of new ambient sounds. i must have went over this limit at some point.
between maps, are precached sounds cleared, so that, say sounds that appear in one map and not in another don't carry over so that the 256 sound limit starts from 0 every map that gets loaded?
Yeah...
#3153 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/17 03:00:54
the precached sounds get cleared between maps.
Terrain Meshing
#3154 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 06:35:59
I've just downloaded gensurf at office, and I would like to try it this evening. I'm currently using QuArK 6.4 (I know that someone here think it sucks... errr.. but it woks fine for me.. bleh.. anyway...), and I would like to know if there exists a cool tutorial/getting started for gensurf use with QuArK, or something like this... I didn't found anything relevant on the web... Thanks in advance....
Terrain Meshing... 2nd Part
#3155 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 06:45:50
I made a quick test on gensurf.exe at office, and it seems it doesn't support Quake.... but newer games (Q2/3, HL, etc..) Does it make sense to use it for Quake2, and import the generated map file into a Quake map ??? Or not ?? How do you use it in fact ??
Hmm
#3156 posted by Bal [83.199.86.20] on 2005/01/17 07:15:17
I don't think using something like gensurf is recommended for Quake, probably better off doing the terrain yourself... I think most Quake mappers make it themselves anyways... no?
Bal
#3157 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 07:24:29
I don't think so... Just aking a look at Kinn's "Marcher Fortress" map for example. I really don't think he build the outside castle terrain manually... ;P... So how did he do ??
Bal
#3158 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 07:26:35
I mean they for sure use a terrain meshing tool, but if it's not gensurf, what is it ??
Nah...
#3159 posted by Bal [83.199.86.20] on 2005/01/17 07:44:19
Marcher's outside area is definatly doable by hand with a bit of patience, but he might have used a tool I guess, dunno. In most cases I wouldn't recommend it anyways for a game like Quake.
Just takes a bit of practice with vertex and edge manip... Then again if your using Quark, good luck, cause it's hell for that kind of stuff if I remember correctly.
<insert pimpage for radiant here>.
Bleh
#3160 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/01/17 07:58:20
kinn's map terrain was built using hands only
Bal & Vondur
#3161 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 08:15:50
OK, if you say it I trust you, because you have for sure much more experience than me... BTW, I've read many tutorial for terrain meshing, and it frightned me (due to the amount of work it seems to be while doing it manually..), and I'm very surprised that it seems no terrain tool exist for Quake... or perhaps I didn't know it.... Is there any terrain tool for Quake so ???
Well...
#3162 posted by Bal [83.199.86.20] on 2005/01/17 08:25:28
The thing is, technically, you can very well use gensurf or any other tool for Quake, but chances are it'll cause alot of bsp problems, and you'll end up having to rework it so much that in the end you're better off just doing it manually.
As I said, quark might not be the best editor for this kind of stuff... =\ But with a bit of patience and training it isn't so long (but it is pretty boring yeah, hehe).
Quake just doesnt handle very funky brushwork so well, so it's good to keep things pretty simple and cleanly built (bleh, if only quake had detail brushes -___-).
Bal...
#3163 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 08:37:18
... so according to you I only need to be patient and take my time to build terrain... hmmmmm.... So, it will took me many years to be able to match Kinn performances !!! ;P
Anyway, thanks for your feedback...
Jpl
#3164 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/01/17 08:39:02
begin with e1m1 type o terrain, then make things more complex until u end up fighting with bsp/vis errors.
Vondur
#3165 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/17 08:41:52
Thank for the advice...;)
Bal
#3166 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/01/17 09:22:27
Mike Woodham uses generated terrain in his maps.
Gensurf
#3167 posted by Kell [82.41.8.22] on 2005/01/17 09:28:18
I used Gensurf ( as it's included as a plugin for GtkR ) to create a very sizeable chunk of terrain for a map I am currently working on ( not related to the chapters event ).
The main advantage to using a heightmap generated terrain tool like this is it makes creating and also modifying very large - i.e. the whole map - terrains much faster and clearer.
However, the absence of detail brushes in Q1 makes the compile times for Gensurf material absolutely astronomical. A few months ago, aguiRe did a full compile on a nearly-complete version of my map - it took just over a week. For comparison, that's about 25%-30% more than Marcher o_O
I also supplemented this heightmapped terrain with hand-built terrain.
So yeah, unless you have a very good reason to be chucking out vast areas of terrain, work by hand for now.
Terrain Generation
#3168 posted by NotoriousRay [68.49.205.197] on 2005/01/17 12:57:42
I've dabbled a bit with generated terrain and I've found Nem's Terrain Generator to be the easiest to use. You set how big the triangles should be, and how many on the x & y axises, then you manipulate it using built-in tools to raise/lower/smooth, all in a 3d view. It exports directly to .map. It doesn't do a great job of optimizing the output, so you may have to do a bit of that yourself.
See:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.p...
for download and info.
Terrain
#3169 posted by necros [142.150.5.249] on 2005/01/17 13:03:31
i prefer making terrain by hand... simply because terrain generators don't create the edges of terrain, only the height. you also get a more personal touch to terrain you make yourself, and you can easily start splitting up areas to create more of less detail depending on what's needed.
when you generate terrain, it's all uniform, and although it's faster, you don't get as nice a 'feel'. you can, however, always modify the generated brushes after, i guess. i just like doing everything at once. :P
Info_intermission
#3170 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2005/01/17 13:41:13
there's a bug in info_intermission description in the entities.def that goes with gtkrad 1.4.
here's the right part, replace it if you want less puzzlement with info_intermission:
/*QUAKED info_intermission (0 1 1) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16)
This is the camera point for the intermission.
Use mangle instead of angle, so you can set pitch or roll as well as yaw: 'pitch yaw roll'
If there is more than one info_intermission in the map, Quake will randomly pick one.
If no info_intermission entity is in the map, Quake uses the player start.
pitch -10 (look up10 degs) yaw 10 (look 10 deg left) roll 10 (tilt 10 degs right)
Keys:
"mangle"
set 'pitch yaw roll'
*/
gl
NotoriousRay
#3171 posted by JPL [212.96.77.146] on 2005/01/17 15:04:38
Cool information you give here guy !!! Thanks as well for the related link...
BTW, I agree with necros when he says generated terrain can be perhaps too much uniform... but at least it's a good starting point, in order not to do the all work manually...
¬_¬
#3172 posted by Bal [82.120.140.179] on 2005/01/17 15:21:32
Doing the work manually builds character.
Doing It By Hand Is Easy
#3173 posted by ProdigyXL [216.111.202.25] on 2005/01/17 16:12:12
For a few unreleased Day of Defeat maps I worked on months and months ago I created all the terrian by hand. Using the popular triangle method you can have good looking terrain in no time by vertex maniping them. I tried using Gensurf but found it to over-complicate the process and wasn't worth the hassle. Just sit down, copy/paste a bunch of triangles, and goto work. It's simple, and quick once you get into it.
Terrain
#3174 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/17 16:48:30
Sorry, but I disagree with the suggestion that terrain should be built by hand: it just is not necessary.
No doubt people will pick holes but look at these screenshots - the terrain took less than 5 minutes to create, and I haven't even started to tidy it up yet (I'm not going to as I only did it for this post). It's hardly uniform.
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/2810/qua...
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/9215/qua...
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/7899/qua...
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/7433/qua...
All of the terrain used in Fmb_sm40 was generated and I bet nobody noticed... because that's the point, if it doesn't blend in to the map, it doesn't matter whether it was done by hand or not.
Sure, it is not perfect but if more people embraced it they would help improve what is, after all, just a tool to aid a task.
And yes, I am anti-Luddite. So, JPL go ahead and generate your terrain.
...
#3175 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/17 17:03:21
well, to my eyes it is kind of uniform. it's good, but it's not something i'd do with my own map.
all the subdivisions are the same size, and the edges of the terrain start and end on those uniform subdivision sizes.
if there was a way to change the subdivs so that some areas got more attention than others and to promote more than just height maps with outcroppings, overhangs, etc...
Uniformity
#3176 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/17 17:23:44
Yes, in this example I have only use 128 triangles. You can easily achieve the effects you mention by a) using two or more triangle sizes b) off-setting 'blocks' of terrain (I daren't mention s-u-b-t-r...) and c) not trying to build everything in one go.
Your response is exactly what is needed - HOW do I achieve such-and-such effect quicker, easier, more accurately etc.
In Fmb_sm40 you can see some different effects (and I am not promoting this map as a paragon of terrain mapping, it was done in quite a hurry and has a number of flaws) but nevertheless, it has walls, floors, islands and caverns. Oh yes, and an 'organic' blob on the wall of the GoldKey area, which I forgot to texture with a suitable bloody, moving texture. Ho hum.
Mountains, canyons, caves, overhangs, parapets, bridges; all possible with a good generator. And much quicker and just as accurate as doing it by hand. But as always, if it works for you...
Yeah,
#3177 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/17 17:31:46
i'm just one of those people that will never be comfortable using something to generate terrain.
i just like making the terrain by hand. all my terrain has been hand made and will continue to be so. :P
also:
a) using two or more triangle sizes
what do you mean exactly? if you mean to make all the triangles smaller... yes, that's *a* solution, but that means some areas will get super hires that don't need it, not to mention wpolys will go crazy and axe (or possibly hammer?) murder you.
b) off-setting 'blocks' of terrain (I daren't mention s-u-b-t-r...)
i didn't really understand what you meant -- offset in what way? i'm guessing it has something to do with substraction, but i can't quite think of anything..?
and finally, c) not trying to build everything in one go.
you still end up having to align smaller triangles to larger triangles in the end, which is 'by hand' work, so brings me back to my original argument of doing it all by hand.
Entity Definition File Converter
#3178 posted by Gom Jabbar [84.133.96.159] on 2005/01/17 17:34:53
I wrote a little program that converts entity definition files for Quake. Currently it only converts the good old .def files into .ent files to be used with GTKRadiant 1.5. Additional file formats (i.e. .fgd) and games might be added in the future.
You can download the program here:
http://www.gomjabbar.de/_mdb/apps/...
Necros
#3179 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/17 17:58:24
When using the generator, it requires a triangle size e.g. 128. If ALL the terrain in a map used this one size, you would begin to see uniformity. In my opinion, this is no more an issue than when mappers use same size corridors or wall heights. However, it would be easy to have (say) distant terrain on 128 or larger triangles, and middle distance on 64. This would break-up the visuals.
By off-setting, I mean that one block of terrain with 128 triangles could be placed on a different grid referrence to another block, again, to break up the visuals.
By not trying to build everything in one go, and the terrain generator makes it very easy for you to try to do so, the visuals will get broken-up naturally - bit of terrain, now some water, now some brick work, now some terrain etc.
Finally, seeing the restrictions in the other tools in use should not stop you trying to improve things generally. After all, nobody wants aguirRe or metslime (and others) to stop developing their tools, do we?
Moving forward is the only way. If we stand still, we go backwards.
We all still play Quake because certain mappers and certain tool suppliers are always moving forwards. Don't stop them... please.
.
#3180 posted by necros [66.185.84.80] on 2005/01/17 19:25:41
hm... first of all, i'd like to say this business of standing still == moving backwards is rhetorical nonsense.
this is not a matter of standing still.
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
this is a little bit of terrain i tossed together in about 30 minutes, so -- didn't take me long, but agreed -- it does take longer to do than in a terrain generator.
i've highlighted the relevant edges, green for the lower ridge, and orange for the upper one.
you can see how the triangles follow the curve of the rock lending a more natural edge. also, you can see what i was talking about with variable sized triangles. you can achieve a smooth transition from one bit to the next while still allowing plenty of detail.
the uniformity i was refering to is the way terrain generators make all the terrain tris in the same fashion -- all aligned onto a large grid and no room for little bits of character to make the rocks stand out.
also, note how i was slowly expanding the size of the tris as i got into the higher up parts of the rock. eventually, they would have grown to about 256x256 sized tris to make up the bulk of the far away rocks.
you can do this in terrain generators by making two seperate terrain bits and then butting them up against one another, but the transition will be noticeable unless you spend the time to make the pieces of the smaller terrain grow into the pieces of the larger one and in that case, you may as well make the terrain by hand since you'd be doing that anyway.
cheers, dude. :)
Mike / Necros
#3181 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/18 02:21:38
I agree with both point of view... terrain generator are very "easy" to use, and save a lot of time. On the other hand, that's true as well that hand-made terrain are more "customizable".. and give the mapper muchmore possibilities... There is here a trade-off to find between speed and design...
In fact mapper's experience will choose between hand-made and generated terrain...
OK, I think I have all the huge line of this design methodologie.. Thanks for this very interesting discussion, and all the advices in there...
GTKRadiant - Newbie Question
#3182 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/01/18 04:20:03
Is it necessary to have installed Quake3 for GTKRadiant to work properly? I get an error “GtkGLExt-warning: cannot create GdkGLContext” when starting the program. In the new release of GTKRadiant you can also directly choose the configuration for Quake1 maps.
Ankh
#3183 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/01/18 04:52:45
probably u need to upgrade GTK
http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win3...
and no, you don't need to install q3 files
Necros
#3184 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/18 05:57:39
Is this the half-crown argument or would you like the five shilling one :-)
Everything you highlight could be done in the generator. But that is not the real point: compare the original game of Quake that you bought in the store with the latest set of map releases played in the latest engines using the latest tools. People have moved it forward - same game but better.
Not rhetoric just fact: stand still to go backwards. Don't stop people trying to improve themselves. That's all.
JPL: nice bit of refereeing.
Let Us Go
#3185 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/01/18 08:11:57
forwards, not backwards, upwards, not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
K,
#3186 posted by necros [142.150.107.116] on 2005/01/18 14:08:23
i'll be going backwards then. lates. ^_^
I Just Don't See How
#3187 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.243] on 2005/01/18 16:53:08
Necros expressing a contrary opinion is going to set the community back. He is just giving advice concerning what he feels is the best method for achieving decent looking terrain, and he is not trying to lead a counter-revolution to dismantle the last six years of Quake mapping history. That is the rhetorical component in the previous argument.
Question
#3188 posted by Maj [62.3.244.192] on 2005/01/18 18:38:02
If the terrain is done in half the time, but is twice as shit, who wins?
Marcher Terrain
#3189 posted by Kinn [12.47.40.98] on 2005/01/18 19:41:37
Just to confirm, all of Marcher's terrain was build by hand (one of the reasons it took a while to make!). This was essential so that I could have complete control over the geometry, polycount, and to ensure that the terrain elements matched up vertex-for-vertex with the adjoining castle architecture.
Using an automatic terrain generator like gensurf would have made it a hideous compile nightmare, as the terrain would intersect with the castle brushwork. Also, I don't believe there is a satisfying way to make hollow terrain formations (like caves) with gensurf, so you might get problems there as well.
(PS: greetings from Minnesota :D)
Terrain Meshing...
#3190 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/19 02:02:17
Like I said in #3181, regarding the previous posts, I now really think it's for the mapper just a trade off to find between speed and design, and clearly, it also depends on his experience..
Some prefer using generator, other prefer using hand-made terrain... Anyway, do we really care how the terrain was made if the map is good in the end ??
I have now a clear overview of the pros/cons about terrain generation/hand-made and now I just have to test the stuff, and see what will be the "good" method (in my opinion) when I will use generated terrain, or not, etc.. etc.....
Thanks again for this interesting discussion, and all the precious advices I can found here...
Maybe I've Missed The Point...
#3191 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/19 03:35:42
...as it was ME that was disagreeing with the implication that terrain SHOULD be done by hand.
I am saying that it doesn't need to be. And the point about moving forward to avoid going backwards is supplemented by the fact that certain editors now provide 'displacement mapping' built-in. But hey, I'm not after an argument here. If you don't like my generated terrain, and if it spoilt your enjoyment of my maps, I am sorry.
(Spend an extra week building some terrain by hand or an extra week compiling - who's paying my wages anyway and where's my fishing rod?)
JPL: I also use Nem's Terrain Generator. It took me about 2 minutes to build the main cavern in Fmb_sm40 (behind the silver-key door) and import it into the map. And (wait for the screams) I used subtraction, although I don't use Quark.
I will surely be hung, drawn and quartered for this outrage.
Mike
#3192 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/19 04:24:50
I will surely be hung, drawn and quartered for this outrage.
I'm sure nobody will blame you for a good map, in anyway the terrain has been generated, so don't worry ;)
He He
#3193 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.78] on 2005/01/19 16:43:33
no problem, I've enjoyed your maps quite a bit over the years, Mike, and I thought the terrain in your Rogue-ish map was quite decent.
I just fealt some points could use a little clarifying to avoid things getting ugly, but, hey, if they did, it may be the first flame ever sustained around a Quake map making issue without delving into politics or ego.
ABLSDIAG
#3194 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.35.14] on 2005/01/19 17:40:55
GTK 1.5 gives me this error:
.\plugin.cpp: 316
runtimeerror: Parse Primitive Quake: invalid primitive type
What is this, why did it just start happening (working on my Lost Chapters map) and how do I fix it?
Zwiffle
#3195 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2005/01/19 18:03:38
Have you recently installed a newer version of GTKRadiant? I've heard of something similar to this cropping up in newer builds, try the most recent build and see if SPOG has fixed it already.
HeadThump
#3196 posted by Mike Woodham [81.153.114.41] on 2005/01/19 18:24:56
No sweat.
#3197 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.35.14] on 2005/01/19 22:51:43
I did download the latest version, I still have a problem. :(
Texture Misaligns During Compilation
#3198 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/01/20 20:37:58
Argh! Textures are fine in Worldcraft 1.6, but when I compile with aguirre's utilities, some small textures are out-of place. (They are textures that have offset and scaling.)
Check shots from:
http://www.hut.fi/~tmaja/temp/
This must be a bug. And there must be way to correct it.
The map is Czg's terra6, I've modified it a bit. The original has the textures perfectly, but if I just open the given rmf or map in wc and save it again to map, it's fucked up when compiled. (Of course i can't compile the original .map because I don't know where Czg keeps his wads or their names, so I can't test if its Wc's or qbsp's fault.)
I've extracted the textures straight from the map using bsp2wad so that should not be a problem either, they should be identical.
All the material is here.
http://www.hut.fi/~tmaja/temp/
Ok It's Aguirre's Qbsp
#3199 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/01/20 20:59:30
Seems compiling works allright with old id utils (and iklite)... (see _oldutils.png at the same address)
What's the best qbsp to use? Or should I have some wacky options in treeqbsp so it would work right?
Hrm
#3200 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/20 21:10:26
try -oldaxis? or -alternateaxis, or whatever the hell that option was renamed to
Worked
#3201 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/01/20 21:26:40
It worked! Huge thanks!!
Worldcraft 1.6a
#3202 posted by generic [67.76.6.142] on 2005/01/22 12:55:37
Does anyone know how to get this sucker up and running in Windows XP? I got it once on an old machine but it is behaving like a bitch on my new one :(
Thanks in advance :)
Do Not Use
#3203 posted by Vondur [81.195.0.1] on 2005/01/22 16:39:40
it...
there are better solutions like gtkradiant...
WC 1.6
#3204 posted by Jago [81.197.201.94] on 2005/01/22 18:01:42
Install it and run it except it won't run, but rather it will crawl on any medium to big sized map (unless you have a monstrous CPU). What Vondur said, use GTKRadiant.
Oh Jago
#3205 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/22 18:15:09
Thats what visgroups are for.
Yes.
#3206 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/22 18:29:24
but it's a pain to be obligated to use them. if i wanted to load up a big map in gtkr and glance at everything at once for last minute checks, i can. it's nice to have the capability, even though you may not use it very often.
Eh?
#3207 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/22 18:48:32
Obligated to use them? I choose to use them, as they make adding new brushes and finding what the hell you're looking at in any 2d view much easier. To each his own, I suppose.
...
#3208 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/22 19:30:59
well, in response to Jago's comment on wc running terribly slow on medium to large maps, you said that you can use visgroups, thereby reducing the amount of stuff on screen.
the point i was trying to make was that gtkr doesn't slow down to a crawl as jago was implying so that, you can still map even on large or medium maps without having to use visgroups to overcome slowness.
in wc, you can choose not to use visgroups yes, but the implication is that the program will run too slow to map properly without them.
thus, you are, more or less obligated to use them if you want to be able to use wc without slowdown.
So...
#3209 posted by generic [67.76.6.142] on 2005/01/22 19:35:37
No one has Worldcraft 1.6a up and running in Windows XP?
That sorta sucks :(
No One Said That.
#3210 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/22 19:43:01
and it would probably help if you described in more detail what was wrong with wc, instead of just 'behaving like a bitch' which tells us nothing.
Eh
#3211 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/22 19:50:10
well, in response to Jago's comment on wc running terribly slow on medium to large maps, you said that you can use visgroups, thereby reducing the amount of stuff on screen.
I probably should have mentioned I havent had this problem since along time ago using my old old p3 550 box. Then again, these days I have a somewhat beefy cpu and lots of memory. Use what you want. I just see alot of digs against worldcraft for *rad, and almost all of them I've never encountered or seen. Maybe I'm just lucky.
--
No one has Worldcraft 1.6a up and running in Windows XP?
Err, what? Lots of people do, myself included. What the problem is?
Wc1.6a
#3212 posted by Gib [81.179.205.131] on 2005/01/22 19:51:15
I have windows xp and run it fine.
NoRay Or Gib
#3213 posted by generic [67.76.6.142] on 2005/01/22 20:05:12
My maps won't compile correctly under the Normal run map settings -- I finally got them working in Expert though :)
Also, do your toolbar buttons lose their images after a compile? Thanx.
Heh.
#3214 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/22 21:49:33
Yeah, don't compile through worldcraft. Open a dos box and run the commands from there. Its much better.
Oh.
#3215 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/01/22 21:49:52
Obviously you have to export to .map first.
No Shareware
#3216 posted by Mikko [212.86.24.57] on 2005/01/23 09:33:27
Any idea where to get the non-shareware version of WorldCraft (for Quake)?
Also - if I wanted to import a bunch of jpg files into Quake editor (WC) what would I have to do? Put them all into one pack using Wally or something?
Make A WAD File Using TexMex
#3217 posted by Fat Controller [222.152.141.219] on 2005/01/23 16:46:49
http://www.planetquake.com/texmex/
And just import.
Terrain Generator Use
#3218 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/25 02:47:50
I made a test with GenSurf (not really impressive) and Nemesis' Terrain Generator (wich is really impressive...), but it generates me an amount of compilation errors (like textures/poly misalignment) during TxQBSP process that crashed the BSP elaboration... (no VIS, no Light...) so... so playable BSP...grrr...
I know that some of you guys (Mike Woodham for example if I remember well) are currently using Nemesis' terrain generator tool, so the question is: how do you avoid errors in order to build the BSP ?? Is there a turnaround (without making hand-made terrains) to be able to increase confidence for this tool ??
JPL
#3219 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/25 04:46:16
I have not experienced the errors you mention.
But given that NTG works on a grid system and in my editor (BspEditor) the imported NTG file always lines up with the editor's grid, I would suspect you may not have 'snap-to-grid' or something similar in your editor.
I don't see why you should get poly misalignment errors otherwise. I have had up to 32,000 brushes in the editor and although I have had issues, it has never been poly connected.
If you want to e-mail me a small section of a map that is giving this error, I will try it in my editor and see if I can spot anything?
Also...
#3220 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/25 04:49:58
...although I am a fan of NTG as can be noted from previous posts and my recent releases, if the terrain section is only small, doing it by hand is fairly straightforward even if a bit longwinded ;-)
Mike
#3221 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/25 04:55:53
I tried to compile the generated terrain only, and this kind of misalignement error remains... I'm using aguirRe's TxQBSP tool, and QuArK editor.
I know there is a snap-to-grid option for polys in Quark, but I didn't use it while I was supposing NTG generates a correctly "grided" file... Well, I have to check if NTG and QuArK grid-settings match at least.. This can perhaps explain why I had this problem...
BTW, is there a quick tutorial that explains all the NTG features somewhere ??? I found by myself how to create mountains and canyon, but I'm not really used with the others features (like smoothing options, etc...), so I need a little bit help.... ;)
Jpl
#3222 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/25 05:47:00
There are some tutorials on Nim's site but his site is still not accessable at the moment. He does not seem to know when it will be as it is an issue outside of his control: global_register PHP setting!
The tools do need explanation and I am not sure that I am the right person for that, but in the meantime you can use the Smoothing tool from the Tool menu at its default settings, and this will certainly get rid of the acutely angled brushes that can be formed using the Raise/Lower tool.
One word of caution though, if you use it on lower slopes it will allow the player to climb the terrain more easily - this may not be the effect you want as terrain is most often used as a barrier to the player.
Also, using generated terrain is any easy way to increase clip-nodes beyond standard limits. This will be dependent on the base triangle size (I use 64 and 128) but you will probably need to use some large clip_brushes in your map if the clip-nodes get into the high 20,000s and you still have standard walls, floors, ceilings to build.
The main thing I did wrong in the early days was to build a fabulous terrain - mountains canyons, water courses etc - and then try to build a map into it. I would suggest that a better course of action is to build the map first and then place terrain sections into it. Fmb_sm40 is a good example of this technique where the terrain is about 12 or so seperate sections. (Of course I use the term 'good example' with tounge firmly in cheek.)
Ummm, don't know if this helps?
Mike
#3223 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/25 06:30:18
It helps for sure... while I already see that Nemesis web site is down... grrr...
For mu first test, I tried to create the terrain in one pass... even if I have a clear idea about what I need, it's now for sure a bad idea... well, "hierarchization" of the map will save me... I hope.... ;P I have to split the terrain in many parts...
Well, so for the moments, I have to find by myself which settings will be the better for me... Anyway, thanx for your feedback..
Console Commands
#3224 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/26 12:42:12
Is there a way to invoke/emulate a console command from within the game (without the player knowing) by perhaps using a trigger?
I want to 'play' with some ideas but dont want to get into coding. For example (and I dont actually want to do this), 'r_fullbright 1' followed by 'r_fullbright 0' could effectively flash the screen.
Any ideas?
.
#3225 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/26 14:30:58
not without custom qc, no. :\
the hipnotic pack does have an entity for this, i believe.
what is the specific effect you want to achieve? there may still be a way to do it.
Necros
#3226 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/26 15:17:48
Well, one of the things I am looking at is the use of fog. I liked the overall effect that I had in Fmb_sm40, especially in conjunction with the underground scenario, but I am aware that you can have too much of a good thing and also that it renders the sky/skyboxes as useless.
As far as I can see, fog in the Quake engines is global and you cannot use it regionally. But I noted that it could be switched on and off at the console...
So, to achieve regional fog I could set triggers in the map file and according to where the player was, trigger it on or off. Only I now know that I can't.
Marcher's sky wheted my appetite for skyboxes and I think I can develop the underground terrain thing a bit more.
But as I say, I don't want to get into coding (old dog, new tricks).
Mike
#3227 posted by Bal [83.199.87.239] on 2005/01/26 15:23:27
Hmm, in Nehahra we could turn fog on and off, or even make it change (density etc). I remember testing it by making a hallway where the fog gradually builds up as you walk furhter into it (and vice versa).
Probably requires coding to get that working in any other mod I guess though...
Ah,
#3228 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/26 15:27:49
yeah, you'd really qc for that, sorry. :\
i'm pretty sure i could whip up a trigger for you that would change the fog density on touching it, but it would obviously need a progs for that...
Faces
#3229 posted by Mikko [62.142.81.51] on 2005/01/26 23:05:11
How to select brush faces in WC1.6 (shareware)? I remember that was done with Ctrl, Shift & mouse in newer versions of WC but it doesn't seem to work here in the old one.
And how to select stuff in 3d-view window? It doesn't seem to work.
Mikko:
#3230 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/01/26 23:37:59
Disable Hardware acceleration in the options menu.
Necros
#3231 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/26 23:56:07
Thanks for the offer. I'll leave it on the back-burner for now but if things develop further with my ideas, perhaps I might be able to call on you then?
Mike
#3232 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/27 00:22:59
I made another test yesterday night with NTG, taking into account your advices, and now it works fine :)) It seems that I made too much manipulations with brush edges and faces in NTG, and TxQBSP (aguirRe's tool) find me many warnings (CuteNodePortals, HealingPoint), and then finally found me an Error in latest hull (ReachOccupant...)... Well, I solved the stuff restarting the terrain in a simpliest way, with much more care about edges and "volume" manipulations, and now it remains me only warnings (CuteNodePortals only BTW) so I can start to build other architectural stuff on the terrain...
Thanks for your help
Jpl
#3233 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/27 01:41:39
Sounds good. Again, a word of caution when building architecture into an existing terrain: if you place your new brushes onto the existing grid and they bisect the terrain brushes, you are more likely to get errors. Therefore, try to keep to the same grid layout as the terrain i.e. in the top view of the editor you can see that the terrain is made up of pairs of triangles forming squares, so place your new brushes in the intersections of these squares.
Of course, you will also find that when you form a room or building in the terrain, the terrain will 'fill' the room. You then have the choice of manipulating the terrain brushwork (horror of horrors) or, and only if your editor can handle it, using subtraction.
Now, I don't have a problem with subtraction but I know a lot of mappers stay well clear of it. I suspect that this is borne out of
a) using an editor that can't handle it
b) a bad experience at sometime in their youth, or
c) a bit a mass hysteria
If you 'need' to use subtraction, I would suggest you experiment with a test map af a few brushes first, just to get the hang of it.
A final point. If you read any of the previous posts about terrain and its problems (I can't point you to the right posts as I think they are mostly in the News Archive, which is still not available) you wil know that generated terrain seems to create clipping errors during compile. These become evident in the game as invisible barriers. To minimise this, stear clear of acutely angled brushwork, only use subtraction on-grid, and avoid extremely small brushes - these are easily created inadvertantly if you use subtraction on terrain and you are bisecting those brushes.
Rock on!
Pun absolutely intentional:-)
Long post caused by lack of interest in the decorating that I'm supposed to be doing. Sorry.
Mike
#3234 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/01/27 02:00:43
The story was I tried to make a very complex terrain into my first try, and so it was a nightmare to solve any problems. So I restart with a less complex terrain, having the same architecture, but with much more less micro-brushes, much more less polys, etc... and so it works...
My editor (QuArK... no comment please...) can't handle NTG, but it can handle multiple projects, so with a copy-paste, it's really easy to import terrain map file in the project, and so use substraction in order to "fit" with my "requirements" (I'm talking like I do all day at office... brrrr...).
Anyway, the good thing is that at least I have a good first try... and now only experience can improve the "process"...
For sure I will post some screenshot later, in order to give everybody an overview of the results.
Thanks again Mike for your helpfull advices..
Mikko
#3235 posted by VoreLord [203.51.221.53] on 2005/01/27 21:17:32
Are you still looking for the Full version of Worldcraft 1.6? I can send it to you if you like. Having said that you would probably be better off using GTK Radiant, but if it is Worlcraft you want, I can send it to you. Just let me know
http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr...
Have a look around there, you may find the info you require (selecting faces) etc. It's been a long time since I have seen WC, I wouldn't remember what it looked like
?
#3236 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/27 21:35:48
or why not use the new hammer editor instead of wc?
Worldcraft 1.6
#3237 posted by . [68.78.217.226] on 2005/01/27 22:40:26
There's a link to the full version somewhere in the General Abuse section archive or here in Mapping Help, I think it still works it's where I got my copy from.
Necros
#3238 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/01/28 01:07:34
Is there any tutorial how to enable Quake editing in Hammer? I downloaded the editor from http://collective.valve-erc.com/in...
but I can't get it to work with quake maps.
I'm just looking for new editor - GTK Radiant somehow doesn't work on my comp :(
Ankh
#3239 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/01/28 05:05:57
Use TexMex to export your Q1 wad as a Half-Life wad3 - this can then be loaded into Hammer. I believe aguirRe's tools take care of the compilation from there, you'll have to read his documentation.
Thanks Kinn
#3240 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/01/28 06:29:36
I can create map files with Hammer now but I can't convert to Q1 map format. I have tried both convmap from aguirre and mapconv but the first one does nothing and the second one exits with an error. Maybe this is because in Hammer I only can choose Map Type: HalfLife. After exporting to map, the file looks like this:
( 0 -512 0 ) ( 0 0 0 ) ( 512 0 0 ) WMET1_1 [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 0 ] 0 1 1
( 0 0 -32 ) ( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 -512 0 ) WMET1_1 [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
When compiling with mapconv the error is:
Exception EConverterError ... '[' ist kein gueltiger Integerwert.
Someone help please!
VoreLord
#3241 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 07:23:30
Well sure you can send it but is it necessary? I have been doing pretty well with the shareware version so far. How does it differ?
And as for GTKRadiant - Yeah well I like the editor and I'm familiar with it but I understood that it requires some tweaking before you can make it Quake compatible. And I'm already pretty far into mapping my level so there's no need to change the editor at this point.
http://www.planetduke.com/msdn/
Shareware...
#3242 posted by . [68.78.217.226] on 2005/01/28 08:48:49
Has a brush limit of 500 I believe.
Eventually you'll surpass that, trust me. :)
Phait
#3243 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 08:54:25
I'm at 416 now:( Shit...
I have been using IKBase textures with the shareware - if I switch to registered version will they still stay in the level? Would the switch be painless?
Phait
#3244 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 08:55:43
I'm at 416 now:( Crap...
I have been using IKBase textures with the shareware - if I switch to registered version would the textures still stay in the level? Would the switch be painless?
The Shareware Version Of WC Has No Brush Limit.
#3245 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/01/28 09:31:39
I've been using WC1.6 for all of my maps. No problem.
I you're planning to switch anyway, yes it should be painless. Export your RMFs to MAP for safety first though.
Mikko
#3246 posted by Gom Jabbar [217.83.87.236] on 2005/01/28 09:45:31
And as for GTKRadiant - Yeah well I like the editor and I'm familiar with it but I understood that it requires some tweaking before you can make it Quake compatible.
Excuse me? GTKRadiant requires no tweaking at all to make it work with Quake. Just download, install and map away...
#3247 posted by . [68.78.217.226] on 2005/01/28 09:59:55
The Shareware Version Of WC Has No Brush Limit.
Always did for me, huh...
Gom,
#3248 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/28 10:00:35
Mikko was probably referring to pre 1.5 versions that didn't support quake natively.
but what Gom says is true. the newest version of GTKR supports Q1 natively and i supposed to be quite painless an installation.
Yeah
#3249 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 13:09:39
Well then it seems that I have been reading old posts/news since I have been under the impression that GTKRadiant doesn't natively support Q and that you have to tweak it to make it support it (or convert the level into a Q map).
However I'll stick with WC for now at least with this level I'm working on right now. I have never built a level before with WC but I have with GTKRadiant so getting some experience is not a bad idea.
But anyways if the shareware WC really has a brush limit then I need the full one - so please someone tell me where to get it. And still - will the custom textures 'vanish' if I switch from shareware to registered?
Yeah
#3250 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 13:20:08
Well it seems that I've been reading old news/posts since I have been under the impression that GTKRadiant doesn't natively support Q and that you have to tweak it to make it support it.
However I'll stick with WC for now - at least with the map I'm doing now. I have previous experience with GTKRadiant but not anything serious with WC so I need the experience.
But anyways if the shareware version really has a brush limit then I really need the registered version in case someone knows where it is or can send it to me at mikko.sandt@satabaana.net.
Also I still would like to know that will the custom textures vanish if I switch from shareware to registered? My level is so far covered with IKBase textures - would I lose them during the switch?
And Again
#3251 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.249] on 2005/01/28 14:31:06
Well it seems that I've been reading old news/posts since I have been under the impression that GTKRadiant doesn't natively support Q and that you have to tweak it to make it support it.
However I'll stick with WC for now - at least with the map I'm doing now. I have previous experience with GTKRadiant but not anything serious with WC so I need the experience.
But anyways if the shareware version really has a brush limit then I really need the registered version in case someone knows where it is or can send it to me at mikko.sandt@satabaana.net.
Also I still would like to know that will the custom textures vanish if I switch from shareware to registered? My level is so far covered with IKBase textures - would I lose them during the switch?
Mikko
#3252 posted by VoreLord [203.51.233.50] on 2005/01/28 14:39:39
WorldCraftFULL has been sent if you want it.
I Don't See Why You'd Loose Them.
#3253 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/28 15:53:11
they're just textures, after all, and not really connected to the program at all, wc just reads the textures.
you should be fine.
Kell
#3254 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/01/29 01:22:40
What happened to your tutorials on converting Terragen worlds into skyboxes: your old site links are dead and I can't see it on your new site?
Troublesome Maps - I Want Some!
#3255 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/01/29 05:02:01
Does anyone here have any troublesome maps? I'm particularly intersted in ones with clipping problems (terrain maps would be interesting) or ones where you have a leak, but the pointfile seems to pass straight through a solid brush. I've made some progress with qbsp, but I need some more real-world test maps.
If you're willing, please email zipped .map and .wad to:
tyrann - at - disenchant - dot - net
For the time being, I'll sniff around and see what's available for download from people's sites...
Tyrann
#3256 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/01/29 07:52:24
If I remember, there's a leak in hull 1 or 2 in RPGSP1. I'm not sure if that's the sort of thing your new QBSP might fix.
AFAIK, all my other Q1 maps are pretty free of errors.
RPGSP1 source: http://rpg.spawnpoint.org/files/ma...
Thanks RPG
#3257 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/01/29 09:11:51
Yup, no more leak. 8)
It's looking promising. Does anybody have a link to CZG's scraps listed here (the links all give 404s):
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoi...
Tyrann:
#3258 posted by necros [66.185.84.76] on 2005/01/29 09:39:07
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
the original archive. (no text files)
Detail Brushes
#3259 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2005/01/29 13:49:00
In Gtk 1.4, there's an option to apply "make detail" to a brush. aperently this helps to lower r_speeds. Can i apply this to a Q1 map?
No
#3260 posted by VoreLord [203.51.217.250] on 2005/01/29 14:45:55
make detail is not used in Quake, but you can do other things like make it a func_wall etc, but I think you must be a bit carefull not to go overboard with the amount of them you use. Plus you should be careful, because func_wall does not block vis. (I think) But someone else who can explain it better than I will come along. But in short, No to Detail Brushes in Quake
Got It
#3261 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/01/29 14:50:00
Thanks Necros. I'll run some test on these today. aguirRe has also done some testing now and there's a few things I'll need to follow up from there.
Error
#3262 posted by Mikko [212.86.23.197] on 2005/01/31 08:58:38
Well I got the full version from VoreLord (big thanks) and the switch was simple & painless.
One thing: I have to set up the directories & settings every time I open the program. It just won't save the changes or something. I didn't have this problem with the shareware version.
Second: What does "WARNING: brush with duplicate plane" mean?
MIkko,
#3263 posted by necros [142.150.5.232] on 2005/01/31 10:01:39
maybe the config file for wc is set as readonly?
Mikko
#3264 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/02/01 05:01:04
Take a look at aguirRe's Q1 Tool Tips at
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
The short answer in this document is:
"Brush with duplicate plane on line x"
Non-critical since the reported brush faces are skipped. Usually caused by an editor error.
But there are many other cool informations and advices about tools problems, and how to avid them...
Hrm
#3265 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.90.110] on 2005/02/01 19:14:37
If you're using worldcraft, usually loading the .map will get rid of the offending brushes causing the duplicate plane errors. But then if you save to .rmf (to overwrite the borked one) you lose your visgroup/camera info, though.
#3266 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.43.29] on 2005/02/01 19:27:24
My door is off-grid in my map. In GTK it's lined up perfectly, with Lip of "0", but when I compile it moves and stops like it has a Lip of "0.5" I've tried setting it to have Lips of 1, 2 and 4, but they're always off.
I'm not sure why this happens, it was working fine in earlier versions and only started recently. It's for the Lost Chapters mod, but I've had this problem before when I worked in Hammer, but I'm not sure how I fixed it there either.
Any solutions, or should I remake the door?
Zwiffle,
#3267 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/01 19:33:28
when lip is '0', the code actually defaults to lip '8'.
the only real solution (barring code changes) is to make the door 1 unit taller than it should be then set the lip to 1.
:(
#3268 posted by Mikko [212.86.24.79] on 2005/02/02 12:47:16
Well I don't but this seems pretty critical. This is what I get when I try to compile: "The file d:\games\quake\id1\maps\jatkuu.bsp was not built. Do you want to continue?"
If I click 'yes' it just prints the following in the compile window:
----------------------------------...
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "D:\WORLDC~2\RMF\JATKUU.map&q... "D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATK...
** Executing...
** Command: D:\worldcraftFULL\Q1Tools\QBSP.EXE
** Parameters: D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU
outputfile: D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU.bsp
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush with duplicate plane
WARNING: brush plane with no normal
************ ERROR ************
Line 4478 is incomplete
** Executing...
** Command: D:\worldcraftFULL\Q1Tools\LIGHT.EX...
** Parameters: -extra D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU
----- LightFaces ----
extra sampling enabled
************ ERROR ************
Error opening D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU.bsp... No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: D:\worldcraftFULL\Q1Tools\Vis.exe
** Parameters: D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU
---- vis ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening D:\games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\JATKUU.bsp... No such file or directory
----------------------------------...
So no BSP is created - I can't play it. Even the old bsp with the same name disappeared along with this problem. Any suggestions?
Complete Line 4478
#3269 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.85] on 2005/02/02 14:00:12
that is what I would recommend doing.
Open up the map in a text editor. I would bet you a donut that 4478 is the last line in the text and it is lacking a '}' to encapsulate the worldspawn entity.
I'm More Inclined To Say...
#3270 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/02/02 16:19:31
...the six milllion 'brush with duplicate plane' errors aren't a problem, but that 'brush with no normal' error at the end is AFAIK a compile breaker. Fix that brush and you should be right.
Could It?
#3271 posted by Mikko [62.142.81.51] on 2005/02/03 01:32:44
So I just have to find the brush first. Could it be a cylinder I created? The error occured for the first time a bit after I had created the level's first cylinder brush.
I'm Not Sure
#3272 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/02/03 05:27:14
but MapSpy might be able to find the bad brush. It's designed for Q2, but it's also great for finding BSP problems in maps for all Q-engine games.
http://mapspy.gamedesign.net/
"State File Out Of Date"
#3273 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/04 22:07:14
Any idea what this is?
---- Vis 2.29 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: E:\Games\QUAKE\ID1\maps\opstart.bs...
166 portalleafs
645 numportals
State file out of date, will be overwritten
testlevel = 4
Using Bengt's latest tools, have checked the Tool Tips txt, doesn't say anything regarding this. it took 28 seconds to VIS a real small room on full, which is I thought was odd.
That
#3274 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/04 22:09:21
is when the vis save is out of date w/relation to the bsp file.
usually happens when you compile a map again and the statefile for the vis processing is out of date.
you can safely ignore this.
Ok Thanks
#3275 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/04 22:18:36
Never got that before.
Beveling
#3276 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/04 23:16:03
If I were to bevel every rivet texture like this, and other textures throughout a map along the walls and floors...
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
What would that add significantly too, if anything?
R_speeds.
#3277 posted by necros [66.185.84.200] on 2005/02/04 23:40:32
:P
you're wpoly count will go up quite high as will clipnodes unless you clip _all_ those surfaces
marksurfaces will be affected too, i'm sure, but not by how much
it would look damn cool, but lighting may also be a little strange at times unless you use a high anglesensitivity setting un aguire's light program.
Yeah
#3278 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/04 23:45:32
I realized exactly how bad this would become doing this for every texture just to compensate for lack of bump-mapping and not forcing the player to use a custom engine...
It sure does look nice though:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
*sniffle*
Could be doable for a small map...
Sorry, Dude, But IMO That Looks Pretty Bad
#3279 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/02/04 23:56:23
.
Phait:
#3280 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/02/04 23:57:00
that sort of technique works a lot better in quake3 (and quake2 probably,) where the inverse lighting model is designed to flatter it a lot more. Quake's lighting model seems to work best with big, simple geometry with high-contrast textures for details.
all this is my opinion of course....
And Btw...
#3281 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.134] on 2005/02/04 23:58:55
why do all your screenshots look so washed out? like you're using the old glquake -gamma feature or something.
To Each Their Own
#3282 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 00:00:05
Maybe the problem is the bevels are too big anyways.
Heres a question about Bengt's tools. I've checked the readme's and stuff and can't find any info on water transparency. I know you can type r_wateralpha x.x in the console, but apparently this only works for maps that were compiled with support for wateralpha, correct? Cause I tried it in a test map, it worked. I tried it in an id map, it didn't work. Would it not be wise to set the wateralpha in an autoexec for the player, or just tell them to type it in.
Gamma
#3283 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 00:01:23
Washed out? You must have a bright monitor, it looks fine to me. Screenshots end up as really dark TGA's, I up the gamma to about 1.5 to 1.9 depending and they look better.
Skin Export
#3284 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 02:10:57
What does anyone use to export Q1 skins? I have Qped which manages PAK files, it can view the skins properly, but you can't export it - just the .MDL. If I open the MDL with "MDL", the skin colors are fucked. Or if theres a resource for Q1 monster base skins...
Phait
#3285 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/02/05 02:13:24
quakeme
AHa
#3286 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 02:18:01
Yeah I just found it, thanks anyway :D
Er
#3287 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 03:53:38
So I'm testing my skin in progress, have added it to the MDL, then it's going in a custom pak. QME has a limit of 20 frames, cannot export Ogre.mdl and MDL 'Quake Model Editor' says 'floating point overflow' :|
Skins, QMe And All That Stuff
#3288 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/02/05 04:25:35
If you're just looking to swap the skin on a model, adquedit will suffice. But because it's such a handy program to have around in full, I'd recommend getting the full version of QMe. t's handy for editing the mesh or animations of a model, plus gives you a preview of the skin on the model straight off. Add to that the two click removal of any fullbrights, and it's more useful than anything else. The full version of 3.0 can be found at http://www.edgefiles.com/files/910...
You can use the patch that comes with the 3.1 demo to turn this into the full version of 3.1.
Preach
#3289 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 13:52:46
Thanks about the full QME but the file is not at any of the servers linked there. I'll go hunt around for adquedit.
Phait
#3290 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/05 13:56:52
Scroll down to the external mirror site link.
Doh'
#3291 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/05 14:31:29
Got it thanks.
Scottishpig
#3292 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/06 12:20:34
What is it that the doors are doing/not doing wrongly?
I can see that you have some multiple-triggers that seem to be unattached, but give us a clue and someone will help.
Terrain
#3293 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/06 15:33:10
Here's some shots of some terrain I'm working on using the triangle method. Generally I'm doing this in seperate groups of tris and then join all them together at some point.
www.phait-accompli.com/q/crap/ter1...
www.phait-accompli.com/q/crap/ter2...
www.phait-accompli.com/q/crap/ter3...
www.phait-accompli.com/q/crap/ter_...
In the 1st shot on the grey bit theres shadows, this is because that group isn't finished - some tri points aren't met with other points to provide a cleaner terrain - don't want the player getting snagged on this, although you could place clip brushes.
FUCK
#3294 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/06 15:37:18
Autolink these bitches..
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/cr...
Terrain
#3295 posted by starbuck [129.215.16.12] on 2005/02/06 17:50:29
in the last shot I can see a vertex meeting the middle of an edge in the top-down view; surely that's not a good idea, as it might not line up ingame?
Kinn
#3296 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/06 17:54:38
Could you circle the area you see this in? Worldcraft reports no problems, and neither does quake. I've made a flatter, bigger mound recently.
A Good Rule Of Thumb
#3297 posted by Blitz [24.218.174.19] on 2005/02/06 21:21:34
When using the triangle method is to never have more than three triangles sharing the same point...otherwise it can look too artificial.
There's a good tutoral map at gamedesign.net for doing the triangle method.
#3298 posted by Scampie [68.190.114.142] on 2005/02/06 22:30:19
"triangle method" is called 'trisouping'.
"Hi My Name Is Sean, I Work At Raven"
#3299 posted by Blitz [24.218.174.19] on 2005/02/06 22:50:51
I am the definitive Quake resource on this board because they pay me to glue models together at Raven. But when the Bobs stop by Madison, I'll have the same fate as Michael Bolton.
All Right, All Right
#3300 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/02/06 23:12:09
"triangle method" is also called 'trisouping'
Is that better?
Phait
#3301 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/02/07 00:37:31
Are you confusing me with Starbuck again? (Hint: same colour name != same person)
Ahhh
#3302 posted by . [68.78.218.168] on 2005/02/07 00:54:23
D'oh
Terrain With No More Than Three Tris Sharing Any Given Point?
#3303 posted by BlackDog [202.72.148.102] on 2005/02/07 03:15:49
Good rule of thumb? Try "geometrically impossible".
Six, maybe (four is the minimum). I'd be more inclined to fuck rules of thumb off entirely in this case.
#3304 posted by starbuck [129.215.16.39] on 2005/02/07 03:40:03
Are you confusing me with Starbuck again? (Hint: same colour name != same person)
No, but if you have the same 1st letter and the same number of letters in your name, then you're the same person ;)
Starbuck
#3305 posted by Kell [82.41.8.235] on 2005/02/07 08:49:04
Well I was only implying the confusion was caused by nick color and not.....
oh shit
Heh
#3306 posted by pjw [63.236.226.222] on 2005/02/07 11:37:29
Try "geometrically impossible".
You just aren't trying hard enough
AguirRe
#3307 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/02/07 15:26:43
I got a *** WARNING 22: Healing degenerate edge at (43 -168 224) in all 3 hulls in a map I'm working on. Your tooltips say to not really worry about it, but I'm wondering why I'm getting this error now when I haven't gotten it before. I have indeed changed a couple things, but none of them were in the region that gave the warning.
That's Not Unusual
#3308 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.181] on 2005/02/07 16:06:16
having such warnings pop up or disappear while changing seemingly unrelated stuff. It can be the editor shuffling things around in the map file or qbsp balancing on the edge due to the float calculations.
Most likely you don't have to worry about it, otherwise check out the position in hull 0 and see if you can find any off-grid vertex. Hulls 1/2 will probably follow a fix for hull 0.
You could also try Tyrann's new qbsp; it has a lot of changed logic that might help.
OMG!
#3309 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/02/07 17:16:49
No, but if you have the same 1st letter and the same number of letters in your name, then you're the same person ;)
Starbuck is Shambler!
OK Then
#3310 posted by Blitz [24.218.174.19] on 2005/02/07 17:17:02
I just wasted a good hour of my night trying to prove a point, but it was all worth it.
You'll notice that no more than 3 of the "terrain" triangles share any point. You'll also notice that you have the ability to move through some of the brushes, despite the fact that there are no func_illusionary brushes :(
It will eventually compile without those brushes that you can move through if you play with the size and style of the troubled brushes a bit. The .map file is included as well as a .bsp, so have at it.
http://blitz.circa1984.com/terrain...
P.S. I suspect that this map file would work flawlessly (i.e. without the move-through-able brushes, in Q2 or Q3)
#3311 posted by Kell [82.41.8.235] on 2005/02/07 17:51:28
You'll notice that no more than 3 of the "terrain" triangles share any point
You'll notice the pertinent inclusion of quotation marks around the word 'terrain' :P
No more than 3 triangles share a vertex because this isn't terrain, it's a path.
Thanks, AguirRe
#3312 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.230.101] on 2005/02/07 19:28:57
.
Triangle Method :)
#3313 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/02/08 01:28:08
Hey - this solves many of my problems!
Ha
#3314 posted by BlackDog [202.72.148.102] on 2005/02/08 03:19:14
OK, I retract "geometrically impossible", since I admit that you've got some "terrain" here, and that of it's vertexes, none has more than 3 attached triangles. But that's only becuase...
a) I'm a very sweet, lonely guy;
b) "Terrain" is a term flexible enough to encompass not only general solutions to the problem of tiling an area with triangles, but also freaky special cases like this;
c) You're cheating.
PS Nice maplet...especially the trigger_changelevel. :p
Blitz
#3315 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/02/08 04:01:36
This map compiles perfectly first time with the latest tyr-qbsp. No modifications required.
Distrans
#3316 posted by starbuck [129.215.13.83] on 2005/02/08 07:17:57
Starbuck is Shambler!
Go map.
Blitz
#3317 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/08 10:22:33
Was the point simply to show '3 sharing a point' or were you looking at something else to do with terrain?
I have more than a passing interest in building terrain so am keen to learn anything even if it's not everything.
Tyrann
#3318 posted by Blitz [24.218.174.19] on 2005/02/08 15:08:51
You mean it compiles without the messed up brushes?
Blitz
#3319 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/02/08 15:24:35
Yup.
VB6 Help Required
#3320 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/17 12:16:09
This is mapping related...
I am writing a compiler GUI in VB6 as the one within my editor (BspEditor) is a bit long in the tooth and has only a very, very few options: it mainly works off batch files.
Can anyone tell me if, when I save a map just before compiling, that file information (specifically the file's path) is held anywhere in the Windows environment AND could be extracted/used by a stand alone VB6 program? A sort of this-was-the-last-file-saved variable.
I realise that I could 'hard code' something or let the user (me) select the current map from a CommonDialog1.ShowOpen command, but the editor has a save-before-compile option, which I always use. Also, as I save versions of the current map, I am looking for a way to automatically pass this information to the GUI compiler - or, more correctly, let the VB6 program 'grab' the file information from somewhere.
I know a little bit about VB6 and very little about Windows OS.
I hope this makes sense.
Your suggestions will be appreciated.
Map Path
#3321 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.146] on 2005/02/17 12:44:52
That could be tricky, since only BSP knows where it saved the map and if it doesn't store this info immediately in the bsp.ini file, I doubt you can pull it out. This info is probably only updated when BSP exits.
AFAIK there's no "last saved file" var in the Windows environment (wouldn't make much sense anyway as files are saved pretty often asynchronously).
Is your frontend completely stand-alone or is it called from BSP at compile time? In the latter case maybe BSP could pass the path in the call.
AguirRe
#3322 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/17 14:05:42
I can't find any files that BspEditor saves immediately other than the batch file that BspBuilder uses. I know that BspBuild is written in VB6 but looking at the history of the two programs, it seems as though Yahn B. and Tony B. co-operated on this point: BspEditor has a BspBuild option built-in so passing the data across would not have been difficult (but at present, I don't know how).
To answer your last point, my program is written as a stand alone .exe. However, BspEditor has the BspBuild option, and if I put my .exe in the same directory as BspBuild and rename it BspBuid, I can run my program from within BspEditor. And I wanted to use the the editor in this way to ensure that I always compiled the latest version of the .map.
Of course, I could do all this from outside of BspEditor, and in fact this was the original intention. But in testing, I realised that everytime that I wanted to increase the version number of the current map in the editor, I would have to update my compiler routines. It's not that it's difficult, but there is a 'nuisance' element and, knowing me, likely to be forgotten if I have to do it manually. And the result of that is that I will compile an older version of the map without realising it!
At present, my thoughts are; I know the directory where the .map file is stored, and I know that it has just been saved, so I could look at each file in that directory in turn and use the file with the most recent time stamp - no hard-coding and reasonably foolproof. But it adds to the time factor.
I am trying not to hard-code any directory information i.e. have not, but I do save all current selections to an .ini file and that gets loaded as a start position each time the program is run (I don't want to use the registry). Generally I am only working on one map at a time and during the course of (say) two hours mapping, will compile three or four times. I do not change the options much in that time.
You've seen the GUI, it's only a case of clicking check boxes and selecting the relavent directories and again, these do not change much. Also, if run as a stand-alone program, I do not have to exit the program: it can sit on the task bar until I want to compile again. If I run it from BspEditor I will have to exit and close it to avoid having many versions of the program running. Each of these scenarios has benefits.
Mmmm, bit of a long post again, sorry guys.
Mike
#3323 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/02/17 17:04:39
I expect BspEditor is passing the name of the map file as an argument to the BspBuild program. This should be easy to test (VB must have some argc, argv equivalent). I don't think that there's any communication between the two programs after BspBuild is launched, so BspBuild won't pick up a change in the map's filename if you re-save the map in BspEditor with a different name. Myself, I always use batch files.
Perhaps It's In DOS?
#3324 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/18 02:47:40
Looking at the batch files supplied with BspEditor, the file name is passed to the different statements by the DOS variable %1. Perhaps that might work?
Slight pause....
Nope, didn't work.
Tyrann, what are argc and argv?
Argc And Argv...
#3325 posted by generic [69.244.213.210] on 2005/02/18 09:11:22
are the commandline parameters passed to the executable, a la "-heapsize 48000". In VB the string of parameters typed in after an executable is called Command. Type Command in your VB code, highlight it and hit F1 for more details. You could use this and your mock BspBuild executable to test for any commandline arguments being passed from the BspEditor.
Generic
#3326 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/18 11:09:23
Thanks for that.
The map name is indeed being passed from BspEditor to BspBuild in this way and I can now read it.
What a very helpful forum this is :-)
Mike
#3327 posted by generic [69.244.213.210] on 2005/02/18 12:34:04
I am glad I have finally made a significant contribution to someone around here :)
Q1 Tools Update
#3328 posted by aguirRe [62.127.65.159] on 2005/02/19 02:40:12
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . All engines are updated with many features/fixes, Light includes a new skill target check and Tx/TreeQBSP includes new clip hull code by Tyrann, especially beneficial for terrain maps. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
Note:
#3329 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.101] on 2005/02/19 05:12:23
The clip hull fix in these (also in tyrann's latest compiler) is awesome -- not just for terrain maps, but also for maps where you have lots of miter joints, hollow pipes that bend, crazy spog-like cylinder stuff, etc.
I Would Just Like To Add
#3330 posted by Kinn [81.152.112.70] on 2005/02/19 06:34:27
That using these new compilers, Marcher's #clipnodes dropped from around 32k, to 25k.
I'm tempted to restore all the stuff I had to chop out in the release version o_O
Marcher SE?
#3331 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/02/19 07:17:45
.
Funny Really...
#3332 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/19 09:18:44
I've been using BspEditor for about 6 or 7 years and have just found out today that holding CTRL and LEFTCLICK allows you to rotate a brush in the map view in real time. And the degree of movement is shown on screen as you move the brush.
Up until now I've been using the RotateBrush button - you know, nudge it 5 degrees have a look; no, not quite right, nudge another 5 degrees have another look; no, still not right...
Obviously therefore, my next map will have plenty of leaning crates, haphazardly abandoned bricks, fallen beams etc :-)
Just thought I'd share...
Splitting Faces
#3333 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/19 10:40:41
if you split a brush in half, but the texture is the same and the sides are still coplanar, will they be split in game or will they be recombined by qbsp?
ie: you're using two sides of a brush for a wall, but one side has trim and the other doesn't, the trim side will obviously be split because the texture will be different, but what about the other side that has the same textures on both new faces?
Cheers
#3334 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.61.6] on 2005/02/19 12:28:37
My next map will also have leaning crates, haphazardly abandoned bricks, and fallen beams, but unlike Mike it will not be on purpose. :(
Necros
#3335 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/02/19 13:38:34
In general, they will be rejoined by QBSP if they are coplanar, have the same texture, and have the same texture stretch, shift, and rotation.
However, if you're just making a column in the middle of a room and split it horizontally so it has a cap with trim on one face, then it's quite possible that QBSP would go ahead and split all the other sides of the column, too.
I Know
#3336 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/02/20 20:41:09
Marcher: The Compiler's Cut
In Case Anyone Needs Any Further Convincing:
#3337 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/02/21 05:27:19
This is a shot of Marcher's geometry in hull 1 using the original brush expansion logic:
http://img214.exs.cx/img214/4742/o...
This is the same area, in hull 1, using the new brush expansion:
http://img222.exs.cx/img222/4244/n...
'nuff said o_O
Forgot To Add
#3338 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/02/21 05:43:38
Thanks to aguirRe for the above screenshots :D
Kinn & Al.
#3339 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/02/21 05:44:34
I've tested last week a "beta" release of aguirRe's new TxQBSP tool, and I noticed some improvement in VIS process.
Accordig to aguirRe, it seems it was pure coincidence, but.. I'm not convinced... so I just would like to know if anybody noticed this kind of effect ?
I saw that with this new expansion logic, VIS runtime process was reduced... For long process, winning some few percents for the "base start value" is a real gain in global runtime... So anyone noticed something equivalent ?
Kinn
#3340 posted by mwh [195.92.198.72] on 2005/02/21 06:47:03
bloody hell!
That Should Be...
#3341 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/02/21 09:33:56
... 'kin' 'ell!
Kinn
#3342 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/02/21 12:33:51
Hmm. Surprisingly, that second one actually looks like it's built correctly by QBSP. Who'd have thunk it?
Terrain Expansion
#3343 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/02/21 12:41:27
yeah, I have yet to try this out on my own terrain map, but it looks very sweet.
GTK 1.3.12 Mouse Problems!
#3344 posted by Cypher [66.167.203.61] on 2005/02/21 23:48:23
I've posed on a few sites and havent gotten anything helpfull, i pray you can help.
I'm trying to edit for jedi academy, got 1.5.0 but doesnt load everything... 1.3.12 is good on the textures, but i have a worse problem, i cant move around in the 2d/3d window using the right mouse button (whenever i click/hold it and try to manipulate ether view it ether goes straight down in the 2d view, or straight up in the 3d view.) the last place i posted i was told that its possible to change/swapp out a config file or something... sounded pretty halfbaked, but if anyone can help me i will be in your debt! thank you for tryin =)
Ice Quake?
#3345 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/02/22 10:46:42
I've been trying to install the quakecapture_bin_20040801
This for making some demofiles editing.
I installed the programm, but when I touch glquake I enter an icy Quake world.
Only the sky texture comes through.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/quake...
Is there a way to get the texture back?
Try
#3346 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.81] on 2005/02/22 11:45:27
adding option -no8bit.
Great!
#3347 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/02/22 16:17:49
That works.
This Info
#3348 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.179] on 2005/02/22 16:31:10
and other engine problems are also listed in my latest ToolTips, Engine section.
For Doom3 Mappers
#3349 posted by DaZ [80.43.71.248] on 2005/02/22 17:41:17
Just this on iddevnet.com, some doom3 mappers may have missed it? Anyway it explains all the doom3 compile vars and their effects, very handy to know...
glview Not implemented
v Print extra information as the map is compiling
draw Render the level as it's compiling (not sure if this works anymore)
noFlood Don't 'flood' the level marking outside surfaces invisible
noLightCarve Don't carve geometry based light volumes (default)
lightCarve Carve the geometry based on the volume of the lights that touch them
noOpt Don't optimize (merge and cut) triangles
verboseentities Print extra information about entities (more so than with just verbose)
noCurves Don't process patches
noModels Not implemented
noClipSides For debugging, don't clip the sides of a brush to other solid parts of the world
noCarve Don't cut up any surfaces (like adding noFragment to every surface)
shadowOpt <n> Set the shadow optimize level:
0 - No optimization
1 - SO_MERGE_SURFACES (default)
2 - SO_CULL_OCCLUDED
3 - SO_CLIP_OCCLUDERS
4 - SO_CLIP_SILS
5 - SO_SIL_OPTIMIZE
noTjunc Don't fix t-juctions. (Triangle optimization won't work without t-junction fixing)
noCM Don't generate .cm (collision) information
noAAS Don't generate .aas (pathfinding) information
editorOutput Pipe status messages to the editor window
Might look into the settings and perform some tests too see if the different ShadowOpt <n> settings and LightCarve actually are worth doing
Aguire
#3350 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/22 17:58:08
i was using your light util today and all of a sudden, it started making my map pseudo fullbright.
what i mean is that it's not a 'real' fullbright like when you compile a map with no lights or do r_fullbright 1 in the console.
not clipping outside the map turns the viewmodel dark like it normally does, and overbright lighting in winquake and fitzquake is visible, but everything lower than 100% light becomes 100% and everything above that (overbright) remains the same.
if i turn on r_fullbright in the console in fq, the overbright lighting goes away.
any ideas?
Ah..
#3351 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/22 18:08:18
yeah, never mind, ignore that post. >_<
C'mon Necros...
#3352 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/02/22 22:04:50
...we all want to poke fun. What "silly" mistake did you make?
Somehow...
#3353 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/02/22 23:33:21
i set minlight to 260. O_o
Heeheeheehee
#3354 posted by pjw [63.236.226.222] on 2005/02/23 07:17:22
heeheeheehee
Hah!
#3355 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/02/23 15:23:19
classic.
I Set Minlight To 1024 Once And Started My Machine On Fire
#3356 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/02/23 22:15:09
Might look into the settings and perform some tests too see if the different ShadowOpt settings and LightCarve actually are worth doing
Lightcarve is definitely useful - splits brushes along light volume edges, meaning that lights only increase passes on the the surfaces they include and nothing more. Would be even more useful if you could set it on a per-light basis instead of globally (often you'll want big fill lights to split geometry but not little footlamps).
As for the ShadowOpt settings, I have no idea. Nice of them to explain what things like SO_CLIP_OCCLUDERS actually mean. I get the feeling they aren't ranked in order of awesomeness, either - each one probably does some special thing that we can't fathom without more info.
Kinn
#3357 posted by underworldfan [128.195.64.98] on 2005/02/24 11:56:42
That using these new compilers, Marcher's #clipnodes dropped from around 32k, to 25k.
I'm tempted to restore all the stuff I had to chop out in the release version o_O
There is no reason why you shouldnt. :)
?
#3358 posted by cant map [195.208.123.213] on 2005/02/28 01:59:11
anyone knows if you can make doom3 lights affect only specified objects\faces (flags \keys for geo or lights) ?
Vis Frozen Like An Icicle? O_o
#3359 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/01 14:52:16
H:\q1\maps>vis map
---- Vis 2.25 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: map.bsp
3654 portalleafs
12249 numportals
Loading state file: map.vis
testlevel = 4
Base:100.00%, Elapsed: 1:23
Full: 30.72%, Elapsed: 52:16
(continuing from a previous vis session)
this has been like this for about 3 1/2 hours... usually isn't there the +---+---+ thing that shows up to let me know that it's just taking a long time to vis one portal or something like that? is it frozen?
Necros
#3360 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.63] on 2005/03/01 15:47:25
try inserting giant brush in the complex area of the map and let qbsp, cut it off the level and see what happens
It's Unusual
#3361 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.13] on 2005/03/01 16:06:41
that it gets stuck in one portal already at 30%. The portal progress bar can be extremely non-linear, so not showing anything for 3 hours isn't strange (only discouraging ...).
I've seen one portal going for 12h without any feedback and another for 5h with only two updates.
To make sure it's still running, confirm with Task Manager that vis is hogging the CPU.
Yeah,
#3362 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/01 16:09:25
it's still using up 90% of the cpu... i did switch it's priority manually via task manager to 'belowaverage' so it wouldn't slow down games and such, but i left the machine alone for those 3 1/2 hours so it should have been able to make full use of the processor.
does switching the priority do anything to it?
There's Also
#3363 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.59] on 2005/03/01 17:21:40
a newer version of vis (2.29) where I've tried to improve on the linearity of the portal progress bar. Expect no miracles though ...
As for priority, there's not much to do if it's already hogging the cpu. Normally, priority is lowered for hogging, lengthy processes (like vis) or raised for non-hogging, brief processes (e.g. copying a file over the network).
Raising priority for a process like vis will only make the whole OS unresponsive or even completely blocked, requiring power cycling to regain control. Changing priority often have unexpected results.
If two or more processes are fighting over a single cpu, the total time will be a lot more than running the processes one by one.
Uh...
#3364 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/01 19:39:51
yeah, i know that. i was asking if lowering the priority has bad effects on vis.
anyway, i'll restart vising with the newer version... maybe it will work a little better...
Quake With Realtime VIS And Light...
#3365 posted by . [68.74.214.202] on 2005/03/01 19:45:12
is my dream.
Darkplaces...
#3366 posted by metlslime [66.135.131.101] on 2005/03/01 20:28:54
does both already :)
Well...
#3367 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/01 21:03:41
something in there is messing up the vis... it got frozen at the same percentage with the new vis program too:
...
...
Full: 30.63%, Elapsed: 51:20, Left: 8h 58m, Total: 9h 50m, 8%
Full: 30.68%, Elapsed: 51:34, Left: 8h 58m, Total: 9h 49m, 8%
Full: 30.72%, Elapsed: 51:56, Left: 8h 57m, Total: 9h 49m, 8%
there is a lot of complex brushwork... would that cause a freeze with no error messages like this?
(also, i'm pretty sure it was frozen before because it was still stuck at 30.72% 4 hours after i posted... O_o)
Although
#3368 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.24] on 2005/03/02 00:57:51
any software can theoretically get stuck, I've yet to see vis doing it. If you don't want to wait, I'd suggest doing what Vondur said; put in one or more solid brushes over the most complex areas and see if you can get a change in behaviour.
Lowering priority for vis only tells the OS to prioritize other processes, but since all of them should be blocking (waiting) for most of the time, vis will still hog the cpu. If you start another cpu hogging process (e.g. a game), vis will yield almost completely until the other process finishes.
Patience In A Virtue...
#3369 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/02 12:54:27
wow, it took a long time (4hours) with the new vis.
but now it's going on it's happy way towards completion. i'm just surprised that it did it so early on (barely an hour into vis). usually that kind of stuff is at the end. *shrug*
WC 1.6a
#3370 posted by generic [69.244.213.210] on 2005/03/03 08:01:18
Anybody ever see this?
http://img183.exs.cx:81/img183/334...
Doesn't work as expected though. I just thought you might want to know :)
#3371 posted by cant map [195.208.123.213] on 2005/03/04 04:42:00
man, no real mappers use arch\shape generators - they create shite
(well, I did. But I cant map.)
I Can't Map Either, But...
#3372 posted by generic [69.244.213.210] on 2005/03/04 06:15:03
It's just weird how I got that funny dialog to pop up:
In Worldcraft 1.6a -- with a map open, of course ;) -- I selected the Block Tool and in the New Objects toolbar, in a Category other than Primitives, chose the last Object in the list. I then drew my rectangle and pressed ENTER to create the New Object. Next, I picked the Category Primitives. This time I left Objects blank and drew my rectangle. When I pressed ENTER, Viola, that odd little dialog appeared!
While it doen't seem very useful, it was fun to find at least :)
Arch Tool
#3373 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/03/04 07:06:56
not that hard to find. As already said though, it produces crappy off-grid rubbish. Just do the right thing and read czg's curve guide.
Bleh.
#3374 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/04 13:31:14
vis froze again, this time at a different point.
Full: 50.43%, Elapsed: 27h 49m, Left: 18h 44m, Total: 46h 34m, 59%
Full: 50.45%, Elapsed: 27h 49m, Left: 18h 44m, Total: 46h 34m, 59%
----+----+
Full: 50.48%, Elapsed: 27h 53m, Left: 18h 43m, Total: 46h 37m, 59%
Full: 50.49%, Elapsed: 27h 54m, Left: 18h 43m, Total: 46h 37m, 59%
Full: 50.55%, Elapsed: 27h 54m, Left: 18h 42m, Total: 46h 36m, 59%
Full: 50.66%, Elapsed: 27h 54m, Left: 18h 39m, Total: 46h 34m, 59%^C (break)
H:\q1\maps>vis -level 4 -savetime 20 map
---- Vis 2.29 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: map.bsp
3654 portalleafs
12249 numportals
Loading state file: map.vis
testlevel = 4
Base:100.00%, Elapsed: 1:33
Full: 50.58%, Elapsed: 27h 54m
Full: 50.66%, Elapsed: 27h 54m, Left: 3h 23m, Total: 31h 18m, 89%
i think it's when i play games... i was playing a lot of vtm:b... i hear there some kind of memory leak in that game... maybe that's what's screwing it up? O_o
oh well, restarting again. :\
Edit:
#3375 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/04 13:32:49
before the ^C break, it had been stuck on that one for 6 hours, then restarted and it was stuck again for about 10 hours.
also, note the wierd jump on that final percent value... O_o ?
When You
#3376 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.108] on 2005/03/04 15:53:15
run another cpu-intensive app like a game in parallel, one might think that vis should get about 50% of the time. But because the game is in the foreground, usually Windows boosts its priority if you haven't explicitly told it not to. Also, there's a potential risk that the game sets its own priority higher than normal.
The jump in estimation is normal when you restart. The estimation is normally sliding to even out sudden jumps, but when you restart, it has to start all over again with fresh values. The estimation will slowly get back on track after a while if you leave it alone.
Btw, you are aware of that interrupting vis inside a slow portal will set you back to the beginning of that portal ...?
No, I Don't Think You Understand.
#3377 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/04 17:10:46
i mean, it just freezes like that.
ie: no updates on the screen at all, even after the game is finished.
those 8 hours, i meant 8 hours not including time in the game.
it's not normal for vis to completly stop updating altogether so early in the process. whenever it would stay stuck at a particular place before, the screen would at least get updated to let me know that something was still happening. also, note that the place at which it froze the first time (30.xx%) didn't happen the second time. either the map is killing it, or running certain programs is breaking it. i've restarted this time and i'll not load up any games until it has paseed the previous point and then we'll see...
What OS
#3378 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.232] on 2005/03/05 02:37:09
are you using? You confirmed before that vis was still using >90% of the cpu, was this true also in the other cases when it seemed stuck?
As I said before, I've had cases when having absolutely no screen updates for up to 12h when it's been processing a slow portal. But of course, vis should behave the same way each time you run it on the same bsp+prt.
If you wish, you could send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see what happens.
Comperrors
#3379 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/03/05 20:26:11
I wonder why I am mapping and after a while my
map goes down by a bug.
I use Texqbsp and Quark63. For some rooms it goes well, but then it strucks down for some
idiot reason. merged textures,holes that don't excist...
But then, when I use Tyrqbsp, I get some warnings but the map compiles fine.
Can't get it, what's the difference between the compilers. Or am I such a fool I just map the wrong things?
MadFox
#3380 posted by JPL [212.96.75.223] on 2005/03/06 01:19:43
First, switch to last QuArK release (6.4), or just change of editor (while QuArK works fine for me... there are no reasons to change... even if QuArK sucks regarding some other guy's opinion...)
Second, use aguirRe's tools... that's the better way to map "correctly"..
Third, what options are you using with your compile tools ?? I think each tools have their own options, which are not obviously compatible between each other... so just check it.. and choose the right ones ;)
Grmpf...
#3381 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/03/06 10:22:42
I just wondered why Texqbsp compiles without giving me a *.prt file.(bad mapping?)
Then the same file compiles right with tyrqbsp!(good compiler?)
Doesn't make it easier to understand the problem.
MadFox
#3382 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/03/06 11:33:43
It is a very difficult problem to understand, so don't worry.
I spent a long time trying to improve qbsp due to problems I was having with my own maps. You probably do want to use aguirRe's tools - his are a little better tested than mine, and he does tend to include any improvements that I make into his tools also.
Try some different tools and just use whatever works best for you. If that happens to be tyrqbsp, then that's fine.
Fine
#3383 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/03/06 18:32:21
Thanks, compile & compute aren't the same.
It Is Possible
#3384 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.178] on 2005/03/06 21:13:15
to create first rate work with Quark as Mark Shan showed with Project Genoma for Quake 2, and it was the first editor that I tried, but for me, Radiant and BSP are both more to my liking.
I guess the biggest advantage to using Quark is that the team (or is just Armin?) are showing no signs of giving up on improving the editor.
I Think Armin Gave Up Years Ago
#3385 posted by mwh [195.92.198.72] on 2005/03/07 00:29:01
but I could be wrong (I know him via a completely different connection -- small world).
AFAIK
#3386 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.215] on 2005/03/07 03:26:47
Mark Shan was using the DeathMatch Maker (DMM) editor, not QuArK.
AguirRe
#3387 posted by Speed [213.145.57.232] on 2005/03/07 05:15:35
DMM=lol
one couldnt make anything remotley nice in it
Agreed
#3388 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/03/07 06:53:26
You'd get better results with Notepad.
Doom3 Lighting
#3389 posted by necros [142.150.107.201] on 2005/03/07 10:22:00
ugh... this is driving me nuts. :P
afaik, you can't bake on lightmaps like you can with other games like Painkiller, or even q1, everything must be lit realtime in the engine.
ok, that's cool, but holy shit: how do you get the map to not have more than 2 lights on a surface without it looking pitch black?
(my first test area had only like 8 lights in there, and it ran like total shit) and all the walls were pink/white indicated 4+ lights on the surfaces. :P
are there any good tutorials that show lighting techniques that can give me double digit fps and not look fulldark?
also, is there any equivalent of the _sunlight like in q1 compilers to get sky brushes to emit light without any (or much) performance hit...
i mean, i have gotten the effect by placing a really bright light ouside the map... but is there a better way?
also, when you are counting the number of lights on a surface, do you count faces that don't get shined on (ie: they are blocked by another face)
and how do you get it to split faces so that each face is split where the light hits?
also, what would run slower: a large room, say 768x768x256 with each face with max 2 lights on each face, or a small room, say 512x512x128 with 3 and maybe some places with 4 lights per face?
/me is a total n00b at d3. O_o o_O
More On D3
#3390 posted by necros [142.150.107.201] on 2005/03/07 10:34:35
i have a strange problem... in my map, you start in a room facing a door, and behind the door a monster is placed there, facing you. but it can't see you through the door, but regardless it awakens, walks through the door itself and starts attacking.
the strange thing is, when i turn on notarget, go into the other room, spawn a monster in manually, go back into the first room and turn notarget back off, the monster won't awaken until i open the door (which is what it should do)
so my question is, why does the monster awaken on map start like that? is there some kind of hidden value i need to put in?
Necros
#3391 posted by Kinn [81.155.131.193] on 2005/03/07 10:46:19
As far as monsters are concerned, there is no sound attenuation. So, when you make a noise, all monsters, regardless of where they are in the map, will awaken and come running to take your soul unless you set them to ambush, or set them to be spawned on trigger.
There was a good tutorial on monsters on doom3world, but I'm fucked if I know where that's gone :/
Necros:
#3392 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/03/07 10:47:40
unclicking 'cast shadows', and using ambient type lights can help you a ton. But that's all I know cuz I've only messed with d3 engine a small bit :D
Ambient Type Lights?
#3393 posted by necros [142.150.107.201] on 2005/03/07 10:55:16
so, then these would just be normal lights except they don't cast shadows, but still affect spec and diffuse, right?
or is it a different entity? (i haven't seen on like that)
but it tried making some lights not cast shadows, and they still did on the world, and i didn't see much speed increase... did i do something wrong?
I'm Likely Making Shit Up
#3394 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/03/07 12:19:51
but the way it seems lighting should work is that each area uses 1 'major' light, and it casts shadows. The rest should be detail lights that do not touch each other, and do not cast shadows. Depending on their use, specularity and diffuse is up to you. For an ambient, you just make a light, texture it with one of the no falloff or ambient or whatever they're called textures, and give it a dark color.
Dang, You're Right, AquiRe.
#3395 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.171] on 2005/03/07 14:37:34
I confused Shan's work with Milhous who did use Quark for his XXX.
---------------------------doom3
#3396 posted by Speedu [84.204.121.165] on 2005/03/07 19:01:58
there is ambient light shader (same place you set cubemaps for a light) - no shadows, no spec, lights backfaces - every poly that gets into the volume. Use with care (dark color) or it looks shite
some crap about lightmaps ( I didnt try)
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/v...
Arg
#3397 posted by Friction [84.230.94.123] on 2005/03/08 06:19:38
Stay clear of ambient lights, they wash out stuff too much. Instead place the lights so in the editor, that each face has only two overlapping lights touching. This might not be always entirely possible, but keep trying. And darkness is a tool just as lights. Areas with a lot of contrast can look very good.
Ok...
#3398 posted by necros [142.150.107.107] on 2005/03/08 12:08:28
i'll give all these suggestions a try then.
i guess a lot of the problem is that i'm not used to having everything so dark like this...
i miss my q1 softshadows too. :P
Ambient Can Work, IMO.
#3399 posted by pjw [24.158.15.68] on 2005/03/08 18:40:14
You just need to be careful to leave it pretty dark--if you brighten it up much at all things do indeed look like ass.
^That's Coming From A Q4 Mapper.
#3400 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/03/08 19:44:15
And don't think of ambient as a full map thing, this is small, controlled ambient we're talking about in areas that would logically have a dim light all over. And to avoid some of the wash out, you just have your normal lights be whiter than others in darker areas (leaving lights full-on white for general use generally looks a bit too bright in contrast to the dark)
Ambient Light
#3401 posted by Lunaran [69.41.96.11] on 2005/03/08 21:01:07
The problem with ambient light in Doom3 is that it doesn't pay attention to normal maps (to my knowledge). All contours of the surface are shaded equally, which makes ambient lighting even more flat and ass-like than in in the Q engines. Even ambient light has bias towards a particular direction or range of directions - it's bouncing off of walls and crates and things.
I think a good go-between, if anybody who writes this crazy ass shader things is reading, would be to shade with the blue channel of the normal map as an intensity map. It'll show the contour of the surface still, looking as if the light were coming at the surface from directly in front of it, but still shade the surface pretty uniformly.
Not enough hours in the day, man.
There's Also One Side Effect When Using Ambients
#3402 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2005/03/08 23:08:00
You end up adding lightcounts by 1 on every surface at the area you are using the ambient light at. You have to be really careful about adding further lights after that. Same goes for fog since it's a light too. In my experience fogged areas tend to have lightcounts predominantly in green-blue, and i'd bet it's the same with ambients.
I don't think D3 mappers in general should worry about map having pillars, corners and stuff with 0 lights on one side or something. Place some materials with fullbright elements there for example. Looks kickass.
Also try using lights that go over the 1 1 1 RGB value scale. Some odd effects there. The doublebright cubemap materials for lights are quite nifty too. And remember to split brushes at light area boundaries when necessary (X or Y flip the texture so the bsp won't re-merge the brushes). Brush your teeth every morning and respect your elders.
#3403 posted by cant map [195.208.123.213] on 2005/03/09 01:32:23
Isnt there a switch to make 'compiler' split according to light volumes?
btw there is interesting solution in the above d3w link (page 1) - shaders that add-blend the colormap
cheap (as in looks but in performance too)
Yes, Lightcarve
#3404 posted by Friction [80.186.156.1] on 2005/03/09 09:49:42
But you don't want to turn that on. You'll just end up with billion split polys. You get better results by splitting the most offending brushes (80% of time the floor) by hand.
...ye Gods...
#3405 posted by necros [142.150.107.206] on 2005/03/09 10:03:10
man, first i needed to align my brushes on the grid, now i need to align my lighting? O_o
hehehe, lol, so manual brush splitting it is then.
in general, how much of a gain is there on this? ie: is it really worth doing or just if you want to try to get an extra 1 or 2 fps here and there?
More On Lighting...
#3406 posted by necros [142.150.107.206] on 2005/03/09 10:32:14
what about lights on models?
say i modelled a large structure or something like that and there were no brushes used at all (well, except the caulked ones behind to seal the map) does it matter how many lights hit a model?
and does the size of a model matter as well?
what about large swathes of terrain?
Quake Textures
#3407 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.253] on 2005/03/09 11:47:42
Forgive my stupid question but are all the custom textures I have used for my Quake level (made in WC) within the bsp so that I could just throw away all the texture wads I have used and they'd still remain in the level?
It's just that this is all new to me - because I remember that when I made a map for Q3A you had to store the JPGs/TGAs with the pk file along with the actual level. The same with Duke3D for which I have been mapping lately (since -97) - you always had to include Tiles***.art file with the level or the textures vanished.
Mikko
#3408 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/09 12:18:19
Yes, you're correct. In Q1, when you make a map, all the textures are included in the .bsp so you don't need to include the .wad.
Unreal Rock
#3409 posted by Mikko [212.86.5.253] on 2005/03/09 12:37:25
Great to hear - thanks.
Anyways - where to get that Unreal rock texture which has been used in Quake levels lately?
Lol
#3410 posted by DaZ [80.43.227.211] on 2005/03/09 15:58:43
from the bsp of that map perhaps?!!! :D
Grab a copy of texmex (google is your friend) as that proggy can open q1 bsps and save the textures to .wad
Rofl
#3411 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/09 21:59:33
boy, did this freak me out when i first saw it:
Full: 50.71%, Elapsed: 69h 10m, Left:13770h 29m, Total:13839h 39m, 0%
luckily, it eventually smoothed out to about 5 more hours. hehe
Benefits Of Light Optimization
#3412 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2005/03/09 22:40:48
n general, how much of a gain is there on this? ie: is it really worth doing or just if you want to try to get an extra 1 or 2 fps here and there?
It is worth it. The area pictured here went from 25fps to 40fps after aligning lights to minimize overlaps and splitting brushes at light edges.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ville.niemi...
And yes, keep the light on grid. It makes life much easier when you lights are on atleast 8 unit grid. If you are going to hit one brush with two lights, it doesn't matter if the overlap is 64 or just 1 unit. Result is the same, so keep the grid coarse.
Models behave just like any brush geometry when it comes to lightcount. If one side of the model is lighted and another isn't, the other side shows as red (1) and tris in darkness as black (0). Exactly the same if it was built from brushes. Doom3 doesn't care to what entity the tris belong to, they all behave the same when it comes to lighting. Terrain in Doom3 is made from models also (huge models), so it isn't a special case. Size is irrelevant.
Speaking of size.. Not many know this, but Doom3 models can be resized in the editor. The rotation of objects is defined via transformation matrix, which also contains the multiplication factor for size. See the rotation key/value pair. For unrotated model it is something like "1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1". Change it to "2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2", and see the model size double. D3Editor will reset these values if you rotate the model again, but you can re-type them should you need to.
Nice!
#3413 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/09 23:20:58
thanks for all the info! :)
looks like i've got my work cut out for me... this looks like it will take about 10x as long as a normal q1sp. O_o
Prefab Textures
#3414 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/09 23:40:43
I found some prefabs (for military stuff) on the web, but many of them don't have the related textures.
I tried to "self-create" the textures, but it was fully unsuccessfull, due to my lack of kowledge in this domain.. So where can I find full (.map + .wad) prefab ?? Or at least some cool textures of Jeep, Tanks, Missile, etc.. etc..
Necros
#3415 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.116] on 2005/03/10 00:15:56
Hehe, five digit hours, that's 577 days ...
Skies
#3416 posted by Mikko [212.86.23.107] on 2005/03/12 11:47:26
I was just trying to experiment with different skies but I can only see one - the one I used first. Should every sky texture be the same? (WorldCraft)
For Q1
#3417 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/03/12 11:52:37
Yes, only the first sky texture loaded will be displayed on every skyface in the map, afaik.
Bah
#3418 posted by Mikko [212.86.6.61] on 2005/03/13 09:44:57
But I can still change the sky for the level if I replace every skyface with the new one?
Mikko
#3419 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/13 13:04:41
Yes, that is correct.
Door Problem
#3420 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/16 06:27:21
I would like to manage a door like this:
1/ First open the door with a button, and let it open
2/ After crossing the treshold of this door, close it definitevely behind the player..
I made many tried with "wait -1" field and "trigger_once" function, but I was unable to reach my expectations... Is there something I missed ? Can somebody give some good advices to achieve it please ??
Jpl
#3421 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/03/16 06:30:46
add spawnflag 'toggle'
and trigger it with a trigger as soon as u enter the room, it'll close instantly
Oh
#3422 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/03/16 06:31:51
and toggle is
spawnflags 32
Vondur
#3423 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/16 06:32:22
OK, I understand now why it was not working, thank you very much :)
ClipNodes Producing Leaks
#3424 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/17 00:46:06
I had yesterday night a ClipNodes problem i.e ClipNode Number (33015) exceded engine limit (32767)... and I found many informations about this kind of problem in the amount of previous post ;) For eaxample how to reduce significantly ClipNodes number...
Nevertheless, I have a question: Does ClipNodes number can produce a map leak ? Or is there something else I missed ?
Not As Far
#3425 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.89] on 2005/03/17 01:11:32
as I know, but leaks in hulls 1/2 will increase clipnodes significantly due to no filling of outside in those hulls. So excessive clipnodes indicates that you might have a leak, but is not the cause.
JPL
#3426 posted by Vondur [195.128.65.237] on 2005/03/17 01:19:49
to make sure u have no leak but clinodes excess, clip some recesses/alcoves in your map, i.e. make less clipnodes (lower the amount which is supported by qbsp), if the number of clipnodes will be lower than critical and you'll still have a leak error, then you got the leak, go seal it.
AguirRe
#3427 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/17 01:28:29
So there is something mysterious here: I only added some walls, and in order to test texture alignements, and how it looks with shadows, etc.. I tried to compile the map, and sunddenly, the map leaks, while it didn't before the modifications (and these modifications were not impacting the map sealing...)
Anyway, I will try to add clip brushes in order to reduce ClipNodes (particularly on terrain part), and I'll try to recompile and see what will happen... using your tools tips ;)...
BTW, when loading the prt file in the map, I can see the "point" going throught the middle of a wall... It's something weird because there is no "hole" in the map ! o_O
Vondur
#3428 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/17 01:29:43
Thank you, that's exactly what I'm going to do (see my previous post)... They crossed each other ;)
Sounds
#3429 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.24] on 2005/03/17 02:59:16
like a leak in hulls 1/2. Check the brush and its neighbours and make sure they're aligned. If the leak is in hull 1, you can often verify the leak by walking/falling through the brush.
Btw, it's the pts (point) file you load into the game, the prt (portal) file is used by vis when the map is sealed.
AguirRe
#3430 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/17 03:08:13
I didn't be able to walk/fall through the brush... I will check the map this evening (with your "magic" -hull <1/2> option)... Thank for your advices ;)
AguirRe
#3431 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/03/17 06:33:26
Ooops I forgot to mentionned that, If I remember well, leak occured in Hull 2 (reached occupant etc.. after Hull 2 start in TxQBSP...), so what am I suppose to look for now ??
Leaks In Clipping Hulls
#3432 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.3] on 2005/03/17 08:19:01
can be tricky to find and fix. The first thing I'd do is to inspect the brush and its neighbours where the pointfile goes through the hull. Look for tiny misalignments (zoom in real close), especially in non-axial junctions.
Try expanding or otherwise change one or more of the brushes in all directions to find the culprit. Building with the -hull 2 option may help if there are HOMs in that area but it's mostly useful for finding clipping errors fully inside the map (which don't cause leaks), see also ToolTips. Use the -starthull 2 option to speed up the turnaround time (to quickly see if the leak is fixed; abort if not).
If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map (no wad yet) and I'll see what I can do. Please also include what compiler options you're using.
Missing Brushes
#3433 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2005/03/19 00:11:10
Im having trouble with brushes dissapearing during compilation. they are in the editior (Gtk 1.4) but when i run BSP (treeQBSP v2.00 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup) i spring a leak! i run BSP after mapconv. perhaps mapconv is screwing up? i donno.
Try
#3434 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.79] on 2005/03/19 03:17:05
updating to 2.01 and adding option -q2map, this will eliminate the need of a conversion tool. I doubt that the conversion is at fault though.
From the compiler log, in what hull is the leak?
Haha
#3435 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/19 07:31:51
i have the opposite problem. brushes that don't appear in the editor appear in the map!
:P
Silly Necros
#3436 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/20 10:20:47
Turn off editor hiding of func_wall brushes!
No,
#3437 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/20 23:17:53
they're normal brushes. :P
Append:
#3438 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/20 23:18:37
it's some kind of bug in gtkr that makes the editor not load up a brush if it's 'broke' but the bsp compiler must fix the broken brush as it compiles the map.
Necros
#3439 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/21 13:58:31
You've probably tried all sorts of things to fix it, so pardon me if this is redundant, but have you tried checking it with MapSpy? It's a really great tool that's useful in tracking down bad brushes in any Q-engine based game.
Actually I Haven't.
#3440 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/21 19:02:50
the problem isn't a large one and only shows up once in a long while, but the next time it does, i'll try it out. it's certainly more efficient than going through the .map file and removing the offending brush.
Er...
#3441 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.166] on 2005/03/21 21:17:03
if radiant doesn't load it, why don't you copy and paste all your brushes into a fresh .map?
AguirRe
#3442 posted by dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2005/03/21 22:14:55
The leak occurs in hull 0 (i think) That is to say "processing hull 1" comes after the leak warning.
Ill try 2.01.
Hey It Worked!
#3443 posted by Dakza [216.221.81.99] on 2005/03/21 22:22:51
guess it was the conversions fault.
...
#3444 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/21 23:02:01
how would that fix anything at all? O_o
Dakza
#3445 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.223] on 2005/03/22 01:53:23
The latest compiler versions have the new Tyrann logic that probably is the main reason for the better result, good to hear it worked for you.
Necros
#3446 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/22 06:39:32
I think he meant copying and pasting the brushes inside Radiant, and not a text editor. If you can't load/select the brush in Radiant using typical means (i.e. making a huge brush and using Select Partial Tall), then you probably won't be copying it over into a new map and the problem would be solved. However, this would royally mess up all of the trigger/target combos since Radiant likes to rename those when you copy/paste them.
Going back to MapSpy: the way I get rid of offending brushes is to run the map in MapSpy, get the brush/ent number, and then use the Find Brush feature in Radiant to select the brush. Frequently you can't actually see the brush, but it's selected, so all you have to do is hit Backspace and it's gone.
.
#3447 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/22 10:29:34
this would royally mess up all of the trigger/target combos which is why i don't do it. :) i takes ages to fix all of those again, and even after you'll find you missed something.
also, even if gtkr couldn't select the brush for deletion, once i know the brush number, it is simply matter to load the .map file in a text editor, search for that number, and delete it manually. gtkr seems to rebuild brush numbers once it loads or saves the map again.
Necros,
#3448 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.180] on 2005/03/22 17:11:19
knowing how large your maps can get perhaps you have reached a limitation in the format structure of the file as it is read by the editor so it is doing weird things to your map.
Maybe it would be worthwhile to send the map as part of a bug report to the GTKRad team.
If this happens to be the case and GTKR reads Q1 and Q3 map files at different file struct sizes (like Dark Places recognizes no size limits on Q3 .bsp's but there is an absolute 32K one on Q1 .bsp's) then something as simple as converting from Q1 to Q3 .map and reading it into GTKR in that format may help.
.
#3449 posted by necros [142.150.107.59] on 2005/03/23 06:55:31
no, it has to do with when you vertex edit brushes.
sometimes, if you create a broken brush by vertex manip, gtkr doesn't seem to 'notice' until you move the brush around. under some circumstances (which i haven't been able to figure out yet) the brush goes from broken but not noticed to full on broken, maybe if you save and then reload the map before getting rid of the unnoticed but broken brush.
*shrug*
anyway, i don't really bother submitting bug reports or anything. nothing seems to come of it anyway.
Heh
#3450 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/23 10:00:50
I submitted a few bug reports on Bugzilla, and nine months later I got a few notices via e-mail saying the bugs had been fixed.
StarBreeze's Ogier
#3451 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.170] on 2005/03/23 15:00:03
has excellent brush vertex manipulation abilities. It isn't difficult to get a feel of its interface either. Perhaps loading the map in Ogier and correcting or even fininshing up the editing with it could solve the problem. Wrath is right about it though, it is about as good as a brush based editor gets.
AguirRe
#3452 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/23 20:16:24
Any chance of you adding a -noambientsky switch to VIS that stops the level from playing the ambient sky sound?
Actually...
#3453 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/03/23 21:42:40
...RPG makes a fine request. Sky_void shouldn't necessarily make a noise.
In space, no one can hear you fart.
RPG
#3454 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.172] on 2005/03/24 01:45:28
I'll look into it, it doesn't sound so difficult. There are also several other variants (no ambients, no water/slime/lava), are they interesting as well?
Yes, AguirRe
#3455 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/24 05:42:07
Although I have no immediate use for them, they might be handy in future maps; particularly -noambientslime. So if you're willing to add them, that would be cool.
OK, I Think
#3456 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.7] on 2005/03/24 07:02:09
I've fixed all variants now, along with hopefully better handling of the actual sound distribution. Before, you could hear some sounds almost everywhere in a level even if the source was pretty far off. Old style is still available if desired.
Also, the state file (.vis) will still be used to full extent, i.e. you can experiment with the sounds without making a new slow run as long as the state file exists.
Speed
#3457 posted by voodoochopstiks [85.224.212.202] on 2005/03/25 14:09:08
I need help figuring out how fast this level can be completed at 100%.
www.chimpans.se/completed.jpg @ www.chimpans.se/promap.bsp <- CAN YOU BEAT THE TIME?
If you beat my time you get a kiss, no cheats allowed, I'm trusting you here. (Btw, no demos, too easy if everyone can see the 'super hard to find' secrets)
How Is This Mapping Help?
#3458 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.248] on 2005/03/25 15:25:37
.
Voodoochopsticks
#3459 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.241] on 2005/03/26 10:18:08
http://kinn.spawnpoint.org/SA/what...
Voodoochopsticks
#3460 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/03/26 11:52:21
I managed ten. There's no way you can do it in less than nine without noclipping.
QuakeC
#3461 posted by blaGGer [202.14.68.239] on 2005/03/26 13:01:46
I have a .qc file called ogre.qc where he fires only grenades. I have another one called ogre.qc where he fires only nails. (Where I use a single gender term, I of course relate to both genders.)
If I rename one ogre1.qc and compile them both into progs.dat, is that enough to identify and use two different ogres in the game without changing anything else in the .qc file. I do not want them to have different skins - I want the player to see two ogres one of whom fires nails and the other grenades. I do not want the player to see this until it happens. I assume I will need to name them monster_ogre and monster_ogre1 in the map file.
I do not know anything about QuakeC except how to decompile and complile.
Your assistance will be appreciated muchly.
Models
#3462 posted by blaGGer [200.21.45.4] on 2005/03/26 13:40:46
Also, can someone explain in easy to understand bullet points, what the pros and cons are for using models instead of brushwork.
I have a statue of Anubis made up of 450 brushes. If this was a model instead of brushwork, how would playability be affected.
My start point for this question is the tree in Marcher Fortress: why a model, why not brushwork?
Don't forget now, not too technical: play with me here, not against me:-)
Blagger
#3463 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.241] on 2005/03/26 15:00:35
I'll start with your second question first...
In Quake, complex brushwork is very expensive in compiling terms, for various reasons. Quake has no support for detail brushes, so every bit of world geometry is is chopped up and merged with the rest of the world, and put through the same vis calculations (which can grow exponentially when you have lots of fine detail in large outdoor-type areas).
There are situations where turning brushwork into a func_wall can be useful. Basically, because the brushmodel is now an entity, it will not split up adjoining world geometry, nor will it affect vis. However, if a brushmodel gets too large, it can become a problem, especially if it straddles visportals. Also, brushmodels are rendered less efficiently than world geometry, so you will see an increase in polycount. I generally steer clear of this method, although I use it in a few instance in Marcher, such as for the torches in the upper cavern, where they butt straight into the terrain brushes.
.mdl models, like my tree in Marcher are most definately your best bet when it comes to those kinds of mapmodels - mainly for the fact that it would be very difficult to create that structure using brushwork, compared to how relatively easy it is to model it in a 3d app.
Blagger - Part 2
#3464 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.241] on 2005/03/26 15:15:42
Regarding your QC question:
Well, if that really is the only distinction between the two ogre qc files, then the compiler will abort if it finds any redefinition of the same function (i.e. two functions sharing the same name). If you want a quick and dirty method to rectify this, just change all the function names in your second ogre qc file so that they are unique.
A better solution would be to let your second ogre call most of the same functions as the original ogre, but with a few changes to implement the nail-firing attack, although you may find this tricky if you're completely new to QC.
Note that the entity classname you place in the editor is the name of the function called in the QC that spawns the monster into the level. Scroll down to where it says: void() monster_ogre = to get a feel for this.
QC Ogres
#3465 posted by Preach [217.43.89.189] on 2005/03/26 15:33:07
Your method won't quite work, if you attempt it, you'll get lots of errors about functions being redeclared. This is because although the functions are in different files, they will still have the same names, and this is a problem.
The solution is to rename all the functions in one of the files, replacings ogre by ogre1(if that's the naming convention you want). Probably the best bet is to just do a find and replace on the string, and then just correct a few things like the setmodel command - as I expect you want the two ogres to both use ogre.mdl. No doubt somebody will point out the gameplay problem with that in due course...
Then compile and with luck yo should be fine. One thing to note is that the name of the QC file doesn't determine what entity name you need to put in your map. You could call the second file banana.QC if you liked. The thing that determines the name of what you add to the map is the name of the function right at the very bottom of the file. If you've done all the renaming I told you, this will now be called void() monster_ogre1
This is the spawn function. Whenever quake loads an entity in a map, it looks for a function with the corresponding name in the QC. This function sets up the entity, gives it the correct model and behavior.
If you renamed this function to monster_ogre_nail, you'd have to add a monster_ogre_nail to your map.
(A kinda unnecessary aside here, read only if you're quite confident with QC and understood all the ideas above. Creating all these new ogre1 functions is actually quite inefficient! Most of the time, for walking and pain and so on, both ogres will use exactly the same code, just renamed. If you were careful, you could make it so that for all the functions which they do the same, like walking, pain, death, they in fact called the same function(ogre_pain for example), and only had different sets of functions for the firing sequences. You'd then just make two copies of the monster_ogre function, rename one to monster_ogre1, and set the appropriate line:
(for example)
self.th_missile = ogre1_nail1;
You could, of course, go in totally the opposite direction and decide that, given all these extra functions, you'll make use of them and completely rewrite the AI for the nail ogre, make it more agressive or something. But it's probably not worth it unless the nail attack lends itself to it rather well.
If none of that made sense or sounds rather daunting, then just rename the functions like I said and all is good)
Well, the aside is longer than the real post, but the idea of making lots of types of monsters simply by changing a few functions in the spawn function has grown on me while I wrote it. For example, to make a beserker monster variant that never goes into pain, simply set
self.th_pain = SUB_Null;
The mind boggles(or shrinks in horror!)
And Look At That....
#3466 posted by Preach [217.43.89.189] on 2005/03/26 15:33:42
Beaten, but I typed more!
BlaGGer
#3467 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/03/26 16:01:23
In addition to Kinn's comments, there are some other differences between polymodel and brushmodel.
The most obvious one is the 2D image applied across the surface. For brushes, that would be a map's ordinary textures, which are projected along the major grid axes. For polys, it would be a skin, projected front and back onto the model when you sculpt and arrange it in the editor ( qME ). You can specify almost any size for a .mdl's skin and have more control over what's shown ( detail, form etc. ). However, the skin has to be loaded along with the rest of a map's assets and all of it will be rendered whenever the model is in view. It's unlikely you'll have any problem with the size though - it's actually making the skin that will take a bit of effort.
The other obvious thing will be lighting: apart from DarkPlaces, Quake engines light models more simply than world architecture. A value of lightness is read from the point on the first surface directly below the model's origin ( i.e. the floor ) which is then applied across all its polys. A rudimentary shading effect is achieved by making one half of the model brighter than the other, but this is done without regard to the direction of any incoming map lights and is applied regardless of the direction the model is facing.
This means that a pmodel will always stand out as different from its surrounding architecture and is why mapobjects, such as trees and statues, are uncommon in Quake.
To address the question of framerate: unless you make Anubis high polycount ( over 600 say ) and/or you intend to place many statues in a wide open area, it will be far simpler.
For a comparison, Chthon is 555 polys, the highest polycount of the original id monsters. Even for Quake's original specs, id had no worries placing him in a combat area with, to be frank, no visblocking whatsoever. These days, I'm sure you could place a half-dozen Chthons in a giant boxmap and FitzQuake wouldn't even blink.
As long as you're up to the craftsmanship, a .mdl is definately your best bet.
#3468 posted by [148.244.150.58] on 2005/03/26 21:48:54
hi, has anyone got the dulight (q1rad & tyrlight) mentioned in this thread? Ive been looking for it for ages with no success :(
Yes
#3469 posted by VoreLord [203.51.235.2] on 2005/03/26 22:45:54
would you like ?
And Blagger,
#3470 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.166] on 2005/03/26 22:51:42
to add a fraction to the wisdom above, and so you don't learn the hard way like I did, mesh models are rendered with a bounding box; instead of the collision being detected per poly surface as the case is (ideally) with brushes.
You probably already know this but if you are as stuborn as I am about these things, you will be tempted to create something like an arched door way as a mesh model and place it up against a rectangular portal. If the mesh model is purely decorative and the player can't touch it, fine, but anything involving collision will look weird, though .mdl floors make for interesting skating rings.
Vorelord
#3471 posted by [148.244.150.58] on 2005/03/26 23:15:58
Yes, email to gona-ss1@lycos.com please!
Thank u very much! I wuv you!
OK, Thanks For Your Comments
#3472 posted by blaGGer [148.244.150.58] on 2005/03/26 23:34:57
That all sounds attainable even for a novice like me. If time is on my side, I'll be back with more questions later.
I'll work on the monster thing first, models second. The Anubis model is for a Karnak-like area so there will be several statues, in bright sunlight and they will be against walls, not in the open.
How would you, as players and not mappers, react to not knowing what a common monster (say, the ogre) was going to throw at you until he started doing it.
Also, that one ogre would take more damage than another, or that one would be more evasive than another?
I suppose I am asking should all 'different' monsters be skinned differently. I think not knowing until you are fighting them could add a more interesting aspect to the map (given that the map itself and other gameplay is of acceptable standard)
Done
#3473 posted by VoreLord [203.51.235.2] on 2005/03/27 00:03:41
Blagger
#3474 posted by Kinn [217.42.34.241] on 2005/03/27 01:59:45
I suppose I am asking should all 'different' monsters be skinned differently
I would say most certainly yes. I would imagine it quite frustrating having to wait for the monster to attack first before it can be identified. Knowing in advance what you're up against is cool because it gives you that vital split second to plan your combat strategy before the monster starts attacking - I think that's an important part of Quake (and shooters in general) and it would be unwise to change that.
Kinn
#3475 posted by blaGGer [207.248.240.119] on 2005/03/27 03:34:55
Not that I am disagreeing with you, but I do find that when I play a map these days I know that the ogre is going to fire grenades at me and that I can jump over them or side-step them, and I need nine shots with the single barrel shotgun. So there is no challenge.
But what do I do if when I side-step, he does the same? And what do I do if after nine shots he doesn't die? Now I have to think a bit and take stock and learn again.
If they have different skins then I have advance warning that something is different. Just a thought.
...
#3476 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/27 11:44:30
trust me. don't do that. if you have new monsters, give them new skins.
it's not relearning, it's just annoying since you have no way of knowing what kind of monster you're going to fight. imagine playing quake again, with every monster looking like an ogre. it's an extreme case, but it helps to get the idea.
if you were to change the ogre itself, ie: make it shoot both grenades and nails, that's different. players will learn that they can expect different behaviour from ogres at the start, but doesn't attempt to 'hide' when those differences are going to surface.
also, sidestepping monsters that don't fly or swim look stupid, unless you were to animate some new frames for them.
OK, I Get The Point
#3477 posted by blaGGer [207.248.240.119] on 2005/03/27 14:18:34
I thought that some ogres firing nails and some chucking grenades would make a change.
I haven't seen the effect of monsters taking more evasive action but I read that it could be done. Also that you can make them run away when they got low on health, which would mean you had to chase them to finish them off if you wanted 100%.
I wasn't thinking of a new game, just some 'changes' to the existing format. I actually do not want totally new monsters as it would not be the same game anymore.
Just thinking out loud.
Outdoor / Indoor (Tastes Good / More Filling)
#3478 posted by [Jimbo] [64.203.165.126] on 2005/03/29 09:18:09
I'm working on an inside/outside transition area
in a Q1sp and I was wondering if anyone knows
of a tutorial that adresses Facades and/or
outdoor areas.
Suggestions of maps to look at as examples
would be a help as well.
(wow we have a preview button :)
QuakeC Help
#3479 posted by blagger [148.244.150.58] on 2005/03/29 13:37:19
I need some help again, please.
I am still playing with the code stuff and have been trying out some monster amendments. I am trying to get my monsters to duck when being fired on and have found a tutorial at AI Cafe. But when I try adding the code to the .qc files, compile fails. I can comment out various lines so can see which 'seem' to be causing the problem.
Can one of you coding gurus spot a problem here:
void() enf_duck1 =[ $paind4, enf_duck2 ] { ai_face(); self.solid = SOLID_NOT; };
void() enf_duck2 =[ $paind5, enf_duck3 ] {};
void() enf_duck3 =[ $paind6, enf_duck4 ] {};
void() enf_duck4 =[ $paind7, enf_duck5 ] {};
void() enf_duck5 =[ $paind7, enf_duck6 ] {};
void() enf_duck6 =[ $paind7, enf_duck7 ] {};
void() enf_duck7 =[ $paind7, enf_duck8 ] {};
void() enf_duck8 =[ $paind7, enf_duck9 ] {};
void() enf_duck9 =[ $paind7, enf_duck10 ] {};
void() enf_duck10 =[ $paind7, enf_run1 ] { self.solid = SOLID_SLIDEBOX; };
The above is in the enforcer.qc and then below goes in the ai.qc
if (self.classname == "monster_enforcer" && time < self.enemy.attack_finished && random() < 0.25)
{
enf_duck1();
return;
}
and the above goes immeditely after the line:
enemy_yaw = vectoyaw(self.enemy.origin - self.origin);
Unfortunately the formatting is not quite right here but is OK in the .qc files.
Oh, I have written to the code's author but not had a reply so far. I have used other code sections from this site and everything else worked OK.
Any help you can give will be appreciated.
Meh...
#3480 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/03/29 23:08:34
i'd stay away from ducking...
in order for it to work, you'll need to change the bbox size during gameplay. i've noticed some very wierd and annoying things happen when doing this, most specifically, monsters become able to walk through walls.
also, don't forget, you'll need to actually animate some frames for the model to duck.
and you'll probably get a lot more help concerning qc things on the inside3d forums:
http://forums.inside3d.com/
most of the dudes here are mappers. :)
Late Appending:
#3481 posted by necros [142.150.106.149] on 2005/03/30 10:29:25
just read the code over again for the enforcer ducking frames,
you actually set the monster to nonsolid there, which, in terms of not fuxoring the bbox is good since you don't change the size, but you do realise this will cause the monster to become unshootable for what looks to be about 1 second...
if you do decide to go with the bbox idea, and not the nonsolid one (which imo is kind of lame) don't forget to reset the bbox size in the pain frame.
the bbox size setting is : setsize (e, mins maxs)
e is the entity to modify and mins and maxs are vectors coming from the origin of the entity.
finally, if you don't go with the bbox idea and stay with switching the self.solid states, don't forget to test to see if the monster is in something else before becoming solid again.
with the way it is, if the monster ducks, and you walk into it, it will become solid while you are standing inside it, and you'll get stuck until you kill the monster.
check out the zombie.qc for code on how to check if it's ok to get solid again (it has to do with when they fall. every 3 seconds, they check to see if they can become solid, and if so, stand up)
Necros
#3482 posted by blaGGer [194.73.110.250] on 2005/03/30 11:59:14
Thanks, but I need to explain that the code is not mine so if there is anything good in there, I had nothing to do with it.
The monster has to unshootable 'cause when he ducks, you missed him :-)
I now know that the line -
{
enf_duck1();
return;
}
is causing the problem as it gives an error in Frikqcc : Unknown value "enf_duck1"
Anyone??
Solution:
#3483 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/03/30 14:33:39
ai.qc goes before enforcer.qc in the progs.src file.
The compiler will look for the void enf_duck1() function when it gets to ai.qc but it's not defined before it gets to enforcer.qc.
Therefore you need to define a void enf_duck1(){...} function prototype (I'm not sure it that's the correct name for it in qc) somewhere before the reference to it in ai.qc. I'm not exactly sure where it would be the proper place to put it, but if you put the text void enf_duck1(); just before the function in ai.qc that calls enf_duck1() function, you should be fine.
Hope this helps!
-love czg
Czg
#3484 posted by blaGGer [83.148.147.107] on 2005/03/31 04:31:27
Thanks. I'll try that.
So, do you think that it would be a good idea to have a dummy .qc file that is made up of all the new functions one is adding to the various other files, and that the dummy file (only a dummy because it has no purpose other than to declare the function names that will be found later) is placed higher up the compile ladder? Or perhaps just list them all automatically at the top of ai.qc.
(I don't really know what I'm talking about here, I am just trying to follow the logic)
#3485 posted by czg [195.204.39.141] on 2005/03/31 05:50:42
to have a dummy .qc file that is made up of all the new functions one is adding to the various other files...
Or perhaps just list them all automatically at the top of ai.qc.
Both should work just as fine, but the question is which one is the neatest, tidiest and most correct. If that doesn't matter to you though, just pick one at random...
OK, Thanks Again
#3486 posted by blaGGer [83.148.147.107] on 2005/03/31 08:08:31
eenie, meenie, minie, mo...
Clear Down
#3487 posted by blaGGer [83.148.147.107] on 2005/03/31 23:53:05
Placed the function declaration at the top of ai.qc as I saw there were some there already.
Compiles fine now. Thanks czg.
The function works in-game but because it relies on you shooting the enforcer, when he ducks it looks just like he's been hit, and not that he's ducked your shot. Therefore, it works, but I won't be using it.
But a nice introduction into coding nonetheless and I am now looking for some more things to try.
BlaGGer - Try This
#3488 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/04/01 02:43:45
Is it possible to change the speed and color of laser projectiles shot by trap_shooter?
Trap_shooter
#3489 posted by blaGGer [62.101.92.98] on 2005/04/01 10:31:40
Speed is altered by use of the 'wait' key from within the map editor: 1.0 is the default.
The colour of the laser projectile can by changed by using a program such as qME and painting the laser.mdl, which is found in PAK1.PAK. You can use a program like PakExplorer to unpak the file.
Hope this helps.
Ankh
#3490 posted by blaGGer [203.172.255.253] on 2005/04/01 10:33:53
The laser.mdl is in the 'progs' folder in PAK1.PAK.
Ankh
#3491 posted by blaGGer [65.165.84.11] on 2005/04/01 10:34:10
The laser.mdl is in the 'progs' folder in PAK1.PAK.
BuGGer
#3492 posted by blaGGer [203.172.255.253] on 2005/04/01 10:36:35
I'm in a cave as I speak :-)
Fantasy Quake
#3493 posted by steven_a [144.131.203.202] on 2005/04/01 20:21:02
Does anyone have the source code to fantasy quake, or the mail address of the authors:
fireball invictus shaper arjuna@stomped.com, kerrow@agt.net roots@upcworld.com
I'm interested in tidying up this cool mod.No releases made without permission.
stevenaaus - at - yahoo.com
Funny,
#3494 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.2] on 2005/04/01 20:36:31
we'll rip monsters, textures and code from the Hexen series, Quake 2, Daikatana, basically any commercial ap we can get our hands on, but when it comes to other modder's expressed wishes, we tend to be more hesitant. I'm speaking generally, of course.
btw, excellent idea, steven_a. Good luck with that.
#3495 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.166] on 2005/04/03 19:03:52
we'll rip monsters, textures and code from the Hexen series, Quake 2, Daikatana, basically any commercial ap we can get our hands on, but when it comes to other modder's expressed wishes, we tend to be more hesitant. I'm speaking generally, of course.
That's because most companies will never see your work using their stuff, but a fellow community member might and get bitchy with you. It's the whole 'legal unless you get caught' type thing.
Well,
#3496 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.36] on 2005/04/04 16:12:43
that makes sense. From the Fantasy Quake readme, they really don't want their product tampered with.
Steven_A
I would suggest looking up Ultimate Quake http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Looking over the .doc file, it appears it has the
most of the same features, spells, mideivel weapons and the like.
Rotating Entities In Quake 1SP
#3497 posted by blaGGer [62.194.128.227] on 2005/04/06 13:38:57
I have seen rotating doors in Quake 1SP. I have tried Google but keep getting redirected to non-English sites(?) so can anyone point me to a site that can supply whatever I need to incorporate into my map?
Please.
Worldcraft Prefab Crash
#3498 posted by Scragbait [69.159.48.5] on 2005/04/06 16:20:00
I've never been able to create the Prefabs in Worldcraft since wc shuts down when I try. Can anyone offer a clue or convenient workaround?
I'll provide more details if you need but right now, I'd rather continue with my map then figure out what's wrong.
Q1 Info
#3499 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.230] on 2005/04/06 16:31:18
Check out czg's tutorial on rotating ents here: http://czg.spawnpoint.org/q/czg_ro...
More general Q1 ent & prefab info here: http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr...
Blagger:
#3500 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/04/06 16:32:39
you can't do it without a quakec mod -- try "custents" or the hipnotic mission pack for a progs.dat that supports them.
Also, i believe you need a qbsp that supports them, too. Modern treeqbsp and tyrqbsp variants should be fine. Original qbsp will not work.
WC Prefab Problem Solved
#3501 posted by Scragbait [65.92.65.60] on 2005/04/06 18:46:08
I should have done my homework. The Forge showed how to create Prefab libraries. If you don't have a library - which is just a folder in Windows, WC says bye-bye when you try to write out your prefab. I made my Library and all works fine writing and reading. Thanks for the pointer, aguiRe.
Gibbed Teleport...
#3502 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/04/06 19:55:45
... I'm trying to finish up a Coagula style level and want to use the sort of falling into void gibbing experience I received from ELEK in Coagula1. The experience involves being gibbed AND teleported high into the level. I've tried with various combinations of trigger_hurts and trigger_teleports but can't get the effect right. Anyone help?
Distrans:
#3503 posted by Scampie [24.180.188.166] on 2005/04/06 23:10:05
I believe all that's needed is to teleport two monsters to the same place at once. Telefragged goodness!
Righto...
#3504 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/04/06 23:47:56
... but I thought the player had priority in a telefrag fest i.e. that if the player and any number of monsters teleported to the same destination at the same time then the player survived but nothing else did.
I remember perceiving the series of events when I fell from structure in C1 as:
1. I'm gibbed
2. and almost immediately teleported high into the level
Not the other way round.
Entity Number Vs Edict Counts
#3505 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/04/07 07:54:22
I've seen that VIS reports entity number at the end of its log file. I had edict count problem in CMC map, so I just would like to know if there's any "direct" relation between entity number and edict counts ingame ?
In that case, what is this relation ? And so, can the VIS entity number report be helpfull in order not to exceed edict counts ingame ?
You Probably
#3506 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.99] on 2005/04/07 09:23:24
mean the printout at the end of the Light log. AFAIK that figure is only an indication of how many edicts there are. Many edicts are created at startup and during gameplay and these are not included in that figure.
Example of temporary edicts are missiles from scrags or deathknights. You'll have to use the edictcount command or the new edict screen display of my upcoming engines.
The best way I know to provoke as many edicts as possible is to play on Nightmare, use god mode and play through the map without killing anything. Then the edicts will really pile up and then find a place where there are many scrags or deathknights and circle above them to provoke their missile attacks.
If you don't exceed 600 then, most likely your map is safe.
Distrans
#3507 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/04/07 14:50:27
My mistake! I thought you were just asking about making it rain gibs, not what you were asking about which I have no clue how it works :)
JPL
#3508 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/04/08 00:26:44
Also, static lights do not count as edicts, so the entity count usually doesn't have much in common with the in-game edict count.
Edict Count..
#3509 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/04/08 00:42:18
So, how is it possible to determine "approximatively" edicts count, in order to anticipate and avoid crash ingame??
When I see Kinn latest release with an incredible amount of monsters (final battle for example), I'm guessing there for sure a method to determine edicts count. I tested Kinn's "Bastion of The UnderWorld" and "Marcher Fortress" with FitzQuake, and I had no problem, while in the same time I had the problem with my CMC map...(I reach the limit in hard skill..), but I don't find a good method to determine edicts count max value...
I know Kinn is talented (much much more than me...), but even if there are some "tips" in his 2 maps (due to QC I suppose), for common mortal I am, there is certainly a good method to evaluate edicts count in map.. Any idea ??
Edicts
#3510 posted by Tyrann [202.45.121.254] on 2005/04/08 05:35:42
You can see how many edicts are being used in game by bringing down the console and typing 'edictcount'.
Also:
edicts - lists info about all the edicts
edict N - lists info about the Nth edict
Apart From
#3511 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.87] on 2005/04/08 17:51:43
the famous 600 edict limit in normal engines, there's also another related issue; the server signon buffer size.
This typically becomes a problem when saving the game and then reloading it. If there are too many active edicts, the signon buffer will overflow and the engine aborts with the also famous SZ_GetSpace: ... error.
In my upcoming engine versions I've tried to improve this check so you'll get a warning when you exceed the normal limit.
Backtracking
#3512 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2005/04/10 22:50:28
How much is too much? How could it be made more interesting? I just realized I've got quite a bit good 'ol backtracking action going on here.
Seven Times
#3513 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.187] on 2005/04/10 23:45:37
around the same general area would be excessive, unless you open areas up from new vistas or do neat Doom style room deformations then you could go maybe as many as twelve encircling routes.
Q1 Tools Update
#3514 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.188] on 2005/04/11 05:48:33
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . All engines are updated with many features/fixes, e.g. more help to debug maps and reduced CPU load. RVis includes more ambient sound control and TreeQBSP has a minor fix. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
Nehquakebjp
#3515 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/04/11 07:30:44
I get an error about fmod.dll. I have this file in the right place but nehahra will not start.
Blagger
#3516 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/04/11 07:35:50
thanks for info about the laser :) I should have known that by myself.
Ankh
#3517 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.238] on 2005/04/11 08:30:40
Make sure you're using the fmod.dll from the Nehahra pack. Newer versions of this DLL (distributed by e.g. JoeQuake) is apparently not backwards compatible, i.e. there's a missing call entry. I wonder what reason they had for doing this ...
Friction
#3518 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.145] on 2005/04/11 11:00:06
That pretty much depends on the map and how it's implemented. As a vague rule, I'd say that backtracking for more than 1/3 of the entire map is probably a bad idea.
As mentioned Headthump, there are lots of things you can do to spice it up. Typical stuff is just spawning in a few monsters to surprise and toy with the player. For more varied and unique situations, you'd need to analyze what the player did before having to backtrack. Did he activate/deactivate a power grid? Maybe have that open some windows, turn off some lights, or activate some idle machinery. Are there balconeys the player can't get to? Maybe add a few scripted scenes for the player to watch; or perhaps have some lights flicker briefly as if there was a momentary lapse in power.
And if you're well and truly out of ideas, just make random things blow up and have pipes spew massive quantities of steam; that's always a thrill.
Friction X2
#3519 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.145] on 2005/04/11 11:02:10
If you truly did "just realize" how much backtracking the player needs to do, then you might consider opening up a few new alternate routes for the player to get back to the previous area. Maybe let him crawl up into a pipe or onto a catwalk and go view some of the map from a previous angle.
Friction X3
#3520 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.145] on 2005/04/11 11:05:07
Okay, that post was rather incoherent.
If you truly did "just realize" how much backtracking the player needs to do, then it's probably not too late to change the layout or route a little bit. Maybe let him crawl up into a pipe or onto a catwalk and go view some of the map from an angle that was previous inaccessible. This would also be fun for sniping on unsuspecting soldiers that have somehow re-filled the area.
#3521 posted by underworldfan [128.195.64.98] on 2005/04/11 18:23:25
backtracking is ok as long as the gameplay changes significantly on each backtrack.
If a maps layout and architecture is OMG THE BEST EVER [like Insomnia for example], then backtracking can become "a wonderful thing" (TM), not just annoying.
Any One Notice This?
#3522 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.146] on 2005/04/11 19:39:55
A working installer of Darkedit, an updated version of BSP has been found recently.
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
AguirRe
#3523 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/04/12 01:31:32
Thanks!
RPG
#3524 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2005/04/13 02:34:10
Well, um. I have three alternate routes through upper maintenance sector. But player still has to go through it twice. Maybe I'm just being overtly sensitive about backtracking. However, the idea about machines changing state is interesting.
Well
#3525 posted by PuLSaR [62.33.55.186] on 2005/04/13 08:20:43
I read PRG's ideas about backtracking and it forced me to ask a similar question.
When backtracking is too long to be replaced by teleporter?
In my map for arcane project player needs to backtrack thru a rather long part of map twice: the first time when he presses the button, the second time when he gets the silver key. So I was thinking about placing teleporter somewhere, but I like to make backtracking much more.
Any ideas?
Backtracking
#3526 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/04/13 09:18:36
Backtracking is a good way to extend the length and monster count of your map, but it's not to be taken lightly.
First, there must be new monsters. Period.
Second, these areas must be designed well enough that the player discovers new gameplay, with new advantages/disadvantages, when he's coming into these areas from the other direction.
Third, don't backtrack too much. The map will wear thin if you make the player haul across the same stuff three or four times.
Fourth, make it clear where he's going. Unless the map has a really unique and varied design that the player can easily remember his way around in, make sure he's ushered in the right direction. The big obvious quake-arrows help. It's a pain wandering around a map where everything looks the same, finding a key, and going, "okay, where the hell was the door?" The player doesn't have a top down view like you do.
One Advantage To Backtracking
#3527 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/04/13 16:15:12
is that the player has already learnt from his previous experiences, what are the best ways to fight in a certain spot (or should at least have an idea anyway).
to this end, you can increase difficulty to what would normally be a little excessive. the player's knowledge of the areas he'll be fighting in, should give him a bit of an edge, and make that excessive situation just about normal.
Backtracking Ideas
#3528 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.110] on 2005/04/16 00:25:24
- fighting your way down a pit and then fighting back up
- shift platforms or walls, reveal traps
- open up the ceiling to reveal the skybox or other inconsequential coolness
- block directions the player shouldn't take
- and of course spawn more monsters
Quake C Question
#3529 posted by blaGGer [203.199.92.158] on 2005/04/17 09:14:51
I have two progs.dat files. One is much bigger than the other and I am looking at the differences. I am looking at ogre.qc and see these two differences-
void () ogre_die3 = [ 114, ogre_die4 ]
{
self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
self.ammo_rockets = SPAWNFLAG_LASER;
DropBackpack ();
};
and the other-
void () ogre_die3 = [ 114, ogre_die4 ]
{
self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
self.ammo_rockets = MOVETYPE_FLY;
DropBackpack ();
};
Why should there be differences and what does it do in the game?
Code And Decompiling
#3530 posted by Preach [217.43.89.165] on 2005/04/17 10:45:36
MOVETYPE_FLY and SPAWNFLAG_LASER are both just constant floats within the QC, defined in defs.qc and in misc.qc. SPAWNFLAG_LASER takes the value 2, so that the ogre drops 2 rockets in that mod. MOVETYPE_FLY normally has the value 5 assigned to it, so in that mod the ogres will drop 5 rockets instead. However, the fact that either of those constants appear in the code you're quoting suggests that you got the code by decompiling. Are you sure that's the only difference between the two sets of code?
If it is the only difference, then the size of the compiled progs files could just be due to the compiler originally used on each one. More recent compilers perform lots of optimisations that reduce the size of the progs(the size reduction is a side effect of the intended aim, which is to make the file hit fewer limits in the quake engine and so on). If there are more changes in the code, then they are much more likely to account for the difference in size.
In short, the only gameplay difference will be the number of rockets dropped by the ogre, and I'd guess that shouldn't affect the progs size at all.
Preach
#3531 posted by blaGGer [62.152.115.69] on 2005/04/17 11:20:21
Thank you for explaining. What is the benefits by using constants instead of entering the value you want?
Yes, I did get the codes from de-compiling and one of the versions was (I think) yours - spawning monsters by the use of the 'style' flag in the map?
I have since found some more differences which is to do with setting monsters health from the map file. And also to do with ogres shooting missiles instead of grenades but I can not yet work it out.
Constants And Decompiling
#3532 posted by Preach [217.43.89.165] on 2005/04/17 17:17:59
The advantage of of using constants is to make the code clearer, and the ogre code above is a really bad example of this, as it's made things more confusing not less. The quake engine and the QC code both remember a lot of properties, such as the way an object moves (it's movetype) as numbers. But if you want to code something with the flight movetype, it's annoying to have to look up a number, and when you read the code back:
self.movetype = 5;
isn't very clear; you'd have to look up what movetype corresponds with 5 to figure out what the code means.
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_FLY;
is much easier to understand, although once it's compiled, both lines are equivalent.
The equivalence causes a problem when you come to decompile the code. The decompiler can't see which constants to use where(to the best of my knowledge) and so it takes a guess as to which ones belong where. In the case of the ogre, it's guessed incorrectly that the number of rockets should be a constant. In the case of the ogre, there is no advantage in using a constant instead of just entering the value, and in the original code it is just a number:
void() ogre_die3 =[ $death3, ogre_die4 ]
{self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
self.ammo_rockets = 2;DropBackpack();};
As a recommendation, I'd try to not work with decompiled code where you can, I hope that the source to the mod I wrote is included with the mod, otherwise let me know and I'll send you it. If you're trying to merge multiple mods together, and there's no way to get the source code for the other mods, start with the clean source/source to my mod, then add just the bits of decompiled code that you need to that base.
Decompiled code also lacks comments, which are sometimes quite helpful. For the teleport mod, all the changes I made were commented, so if you wanted to add teleporting to another mod, you could simply find all the comments in the code, and follow the instructions to copy them into another mod.
Phew, that ended up long...
Preach
#3533 posted by blaGGer [65.165.84.11] on 2005/04/18 14:42:14
Words of wisdom thank you.
I started looking at code back about front as I wanted to see how to compile before I had written anything to compile. So I decompiled some progs.dat to play with which is why I ended up with code without comments. So now I try to do it right.
I now have the source code and it is yours. What is the extension .$$$ used for? The code in these files includes shalrath_tele. Does the $$$ files get compiled just the same?
How does the game know that the code for monster_shalrath_tele as entered in the map file is in the shalrath qc file, is this defined somewhere else? I am not clear because you say in the readme file that if the shalrath is not to teleport away than use the ordinary shalrath so I think that both will be compiled.
I am really interested in learning about this code so I am sorry if all of this is too simple for you but will be pleased if you will help.
Make $$$ Quick!!!!!
#3534 posted by Preach [217.43.89.165] on 2005/04/18 16:44:52
Arrrgh, I shouldn't have left the $$$ files in there. They are backup files that get automatically generated by the program I use to edit qc files, you can safely ignore them or delete them.
The idea behind the monster_shalrath_tele is this: When a map is loaded, the engine looks at the name of every entity that is included in the map. It then tries to find a function in the QC with the same name as the entity, and runs that function(or produces an error message if it can't find the function). The function is usually designed to set up the entity in question, set it's model, it's behaviour and so on. The engine sets the entity called self to be the entity in the map, so by setting self.health in the function you affect the health of the thing in the map.
When you run this mod along with a map that has a monster_shalrath_tele entity, it runs the function
monster_shalrath_tele();, which basically makes a vore in the right place in the map, with a special death animation that looks like a teleport.
Because there's a new function for this kind of shalrath, the old one is still present, and unchanged. So any monster_shalrath in the map will be just like the ones in the original quake. I could have programmed it differently, so that you just set a flag on a normal monster_shalrath in the map, that makes it teleport out on death, but I did it this way because that's what the original recipient requested.
If you wanted to make, say, a new monster, so that the entity you added to a map was called monster_troll, then you'd call all the animation functions and so on whatever you like(although it's usual to stick to the conventions in the existing code). Then just ensure the spawn function was called monster_troll().
Hope that clears up how the game knows what code to use for which entites.
Preach
#3535 posted by blaGGer [202.209.40.23] on 2005/04/18 23:18:17
Great, I understand now. Thank you.
Preach
#3536 posted by blaGGer [80.58.4.46] on 2005/04/19 13:16:27
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3537 posted by blaGGer [202.28.25.131] on 2005/04/19 13:17:03
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3538 posted by blaGGer [80.237.140.233] on 2005/04/19 13:17:47
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3539 posted by blaGGer [220.130.164.217] on 2005/04/19 13:18:25
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3540 posted by blaGGer [80.58.4.46] on 2005/04/19 13:26:36
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3541 posted by blaGGer [195.136.246.2] on 2005/04/19 13:26:47
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3542 posted by blaGGer [212.117.151.85] on 2005/04/19 13:27:04
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3543 posted by blaGGer [221.114.141.178] on 2005/04/19 13:28:06
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3544 posted by blaGGer [213.16.96.6] on 2005/04/19 13:28:13
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Preach
#3545 posted by blaGGer [213.16.96.6] on 2005/04/19 13:28:25
Well, I am quite pleased because I managed to find your error tutorial hidden in the shambler.qc file ;-)
monster_shambler_tele_set
and
monster_shambler_set_tele
I stared at it for a long time before I could see it!
I didnot try the progs.dat supplied as I was adding some code so I cannot say if is OK or not. But it compiles good now and works fine. Thanks again.
Lol
#3546 posted by Kinn [217.43.101.99] on 2005/04/19 13:31:39
Holy Fuck,
#3547 posted by Scampie [63.236.226.222] on 2005/04/19 14:15:00
a new record!
blaGGer, please don't hit submit a bunch of times, or refresh or whatever the hell you did.
Hahahahahahaha
#3548 posted by pjw [24.196.138.243] on 2005/04/19 18:31:18
A dectuple-post!!
Hell yeah. If you're going to do something, then by golly, just go all out with your bad self.
I'm home sick today and feel kind of shitty, and that made me feel better.
#3549 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/04/19 21:12:05
I am not in the trunc dreath?
I am not in the grunt breath?
I am not in the drunk thread?
Blagger Is Just Simply Quite Pleased!
#3550 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2005/04/19 22:15:09
;-)
Sorry, Sorrry, Sooorrrry
#3551 posted by blaGGer [81.154.66.251] on 2005/04/19 22:43:41
So sorry times many times!
BlaGGer
#3552 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/04/19 23:06:48
I really think you need to take medical advice from a neurologist to solve your restlessness problem... believe me... ;)
Flawless Victory!
#3553 posted by Lunaran [68.51.209.251] on 2005/04/20 09:04:01
blagh!
Trigger_teleport Sound
#3554 posted by blaGGer [217.172.182.55] on 2005/04/22 15:40:30
I there a problem with the SILENT flag in the trigger_teleport routine as it makes no difference if it is set or not.
I am looking in the triggers.qc file and the only reference I can see is
if (!(self.spawnflags & SILENT))
Is that right? & or ==
Silence Is Golden
#3555 posted by Preach [217.43.89.165] on 2005/04/22 16:09:38
It may be that the flag is working, just not how you expect. Silent teleporters still make the noise when something teleports in, they just don't make the ambient teleporter hum near to the trigger. It's intended for trigger_teleports that sit outside the main level, for teleporting monsters in, as the sound out there would be pointless, unless it spilled over into the real level, which would be confusing.
Preach
#3556 posted by blaGGer [217.172.182.55] on 2005/04/23 01:00:42
What I am wanting is for no sound at all when I teleport my extra monsters in. I am happy for there to be sound when the player uses a trasporter. I have some triggers that teleport monsters into places the player has been to once and I do not want the player to know that by hearing sounds.
I thought that was what the flag SILENT was for . Can you guide me how I may stop the teleport sound?
The Sound Of Silence
#3557 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/04/23 11:11:14
Ok, the first function to look at is play_teleport, which selects a random teleport sound and plays it. However, we cannot change this function, because it is a think function for a temporary entity. This means we have no way to check whether it was spawned by a trigger_teleport that is silent or not. So, we need to look at the code that calls this bit.
The next function is spawn_tfog, which spawns a new entity s, who's only purpose is to play the sound in the right place in 0.2 seconds. Ideally we would have an if statement around that spawn function, but again we can't be sure what function has called spawn_tfog. If it was the trigger_teleport, then we'd know the trigger was the "self" entity. But another entity might call spawn_tfog, and so modifying this function might cause problems in other places.
So, we go back one more function, to teleport_touch. So, above this function add the line
float NONOISE = 4;
This is just defining a new constant for the flags on a teleporter; if you set flag 4 then the trigger_teleport, then anything teleported will be silent.
Then go down into the function, and find the lines
makevectors (t.mangle);
org = t.origin + 32 * v_forward;
spawn_tfog (org);
and replace it with
if(!(self.flags & NONOISE))
{
makevectors (t.mangle);
org = t.origin + 32 * v_forward;
spawn_tfog (org);}
Notice that this gets rid of spawn_tfog totally, so you get no flash as well as no sound. I assume that if the monsters are meant to teleport in without informing the player, no teleporter flash is needed.
If you did want silent teleports that included the flash, you'd need to add
else
{
makevectors (t.mangle);
org = t.origin + 32 * v_forward;
spawn_tfog_silent(org);
}
after the if statement, and make a copy of spawn_tfog called spawn_tfog_silent, which omitted the sound spawning lines.
As a side note for mappers, it turns out that play_teleport is a function like barrel_explode that can be called by the func_notnull trick. So if you want to spam false teleport sounds at the player, you now have the power! Well, I'll confess I've not actually tried it in a map, but it looks like it should work.
#3558 posted by buy viagra online order [207.248.240.119] on 2005/04/24 09:11:46
[deleted by metlslime]
Cough
#3559 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.183] on 2005/04/24 09:24:59
cough
Crosbow
#3560 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/04/24 12:14:44
I managed to change the v_shot gun mdl into a crosbow. Now I want to make it shoot arrows. So I made the crosbow.mdl of 7 frames, and one arrow.mdl for the arrow.
Now it comes to qc and I knew this would be a hard one for me. I've been looking to the 3Dinside for one, but I could only find thowing axe to compare. But the zip file link is lost. Is it really much coding to make it go?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/frame...
Bows And Arrows
#3561 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/04/24 15:12:22
I'm not gonna do a detailed how to here, be warned, but rest assured it's not too hard. Have a look at the code for firing nails, it's pretty close to firing an arrow. Just copy and rename the nail functions, and change the model, the speed and the damage. Then in the weapon firing code, change the fire function for the shotgun from the current one to the new arrow one. Let me know if anything goes wrong, or if you wanted different behavior from that of a nail.
Great!
#3562 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/04/24 15:59:49
I was allready looking to older examples of the Phenomenon CD. But with this I can go on for a while.
Glad to have this little help, because c coding for me is almost as hard as writing a full sentence without spelling problems!
#3563 posted by generic viagra alternative [211.5.107.140] on 2005/04/25 00:41:11
[deleted by metlslime]
MadFox
#3564 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/04/25 04:52:59
Are you trying to "rebirth" hexen weapons ?
Knew It Won't Be Easy
#3565 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/04/25 12:58:57
I don't think the shotgun has a substantive bullit?
By now my only progress is replacing the s_spike.mdl for an arrow.mdl
Then the supershotgun shoots arrows, while the nailgun still punshes nails.
But that's no true code afterall.
I Understood That.
#3566 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/04/25 14:14:15
Arrows And Stuff
#3567 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/04/26 13:31:49
Ok, the full walkthrough on coding the arrow in.
Find
void() W_FireSuperSpikes =
and duplicate the whole function, renaming the copy of the function to W_FireArrow
In this version of the function, replace the model of the spike with the arrow model and either find a suitable sound replacement or just delete that line. Change the line
newmis.touch = superspike_touch;
to
newmis.touch = arrow_touch;
and
self.currentammo = self.ammo_nails = self.ammo_nails - 2;
to
self.currentammo = self.ammo_shells = self.ammo_shells - 1;
Copy the function void() superspike_touch = and paste it about the W_FireArrow function. Now rename it as arrow_touch. Here you can set the damage you want the arrow to do, replace the two instances that say 18 with whatever damage you see fit : -).
Finally, go down to the function W_Attack. Find the line
else if (self.weapon == IT_SHOTGUN)
{
player_shot1 ();
W_FireShotgun ();
self.attack_finished = time + 0.5;
and change it to
else if (self.weapon == IT_SHOTGUN)
{
player_shot1 ();
W_FireArrow ();
self.attack_finished = time + 0.5;
Note that the weapon is using a single shell each time it fires. If you want to change what kind of ammo it uses you need to poke around in lots of different functions, even more if you want it to use multiple shells in a shot. So let me know what you had in mind ammo-wise and I'll get back to you.
Kind
#3568 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/04/27 09:30:15
you took the time to give me some attention!
I was already working with a weapons.qc from "Freak" in his Firepower addition.
He had a progs.dat which was working right, but the client.qc and weapons.qc didn't work.
I'll try this code, and let you know how it goes.
Preach
#3569 posted by blagger [211.93.9.245] on 2005/04/27 12:24:23
Thank you.
I like your training methods-
if(!(self.flags & NONOISE))
should be
if(!(self.spawnflags & NONOISE))
Just like last time I stared at it not working for a long time before I saw the problem. I found it so I must be learning!!
But I am still very grateful for your help and I am still thanking you and you are helping others as well. Well done.
WARNING: DO NOT TAKE AURALLY
#3570 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/04/27 13:07:57
Oh yeah, all the stuff I write about QC should come with the following disclaimer:
Preach is to busy/lasy to actually compile the code he writes on this board, let alone test if it work. Use at your own risk.
Nonetheless...
#3571 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/04/27 20:04:14
...you are a great boon to this community.
Thankyou.
Preach
#3572 posted by blaGGer [219.114.106.242] on 2005/04/28 13:15:52
I blow my own trumpet now.
I changed your transporting monsters progs.dat to have silent monsters if I want by setting Spawnflag 4 on the monster
void() monster_teleport =
{
if(!self.spawnflags & NONOISE) //blaGGer setup the if-then-else routine
{
self.think1(); //PREACH: set up the monster in place
spawn_tfog(self.origin); // spawn the effect
spawn_tdeath(self.origin, self); // and teleport as required
}
else
{
self.think1();
spawn_tdeath(self.origin, self);
}
};
I will hug a tree with happiness.
What's On The Tele..
#3573 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/04/28 16:18:20
(...the goldfish bowl, like usual)
Looks solid, the only thing that I'd check is that spawnflag 4 isn't used for anything else on any monster - it doesn't look like it though. If it is, just change it to some higher power of 2, like 16 or 32.
In other news, I have been experimenting with what you can and can't do with a func_notnull, and the results are suprising to say the least. The teleport sound I mentioned a few posts earlier works, although it'll only play once per entity as it has a remove in the function. But I've found many more functions that work too...I have a little testmap made up, but I'm gonna see if I can't make something useful out of the entities before I let on.
Exploding Walls
#3574 posted by blaGGer [212.115.8.166] on 2005/04/30 10:06:49
I looking at a exploding wall mod by Ben Lehman (1996). It works good but the rubble bits flicker in the game until they disappear.
Does any of you know how to stop this?
Double Check The Skin
#3575 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.153] on 2005/04/30 17:57:54
on the rubble model; It could be a number of possibilaties. It may need to have the fullbrights removed or the skin isn't covering the entire surface. Also if any of the surface normals are facing the wrong directions it could appear to flicker while in movement. Any of those problems can be corrected with a basic Quake modeler like MDL.
Quake Models
#3576 posted by blaGGer [168.12.253.67] on 2005/05/01 04:22:30
I have the rubble models in qME and I want to change the texture to match the wall that the exploding wall is in.
How can I overlay the city8_2 texture on the model? I have Adquedit, qME and I got Photoshop at work.
Does anybody know of helpful sites for these old programs?
HeadThump
#3577 posted by blaGGer [168.12.253.67] on 2005/05/01 04:28:15
I did not understood the flicker problem at first time. I was looking at it with quad damage and it not flicker with normal looking. So OK now. Thank you for helping.
I Hug More Trees
#3578 posted by blaGGer [168.12.253.66] on 2005/05/01 05:33:19
In my rest time I used the company Photoshop and made new model skin.
I exported the new texture from TexMex in BMP
I exported the old skin from qME in BMP
I imported them two into Photoshop using layers
I changed the Mode to RGB and erased the old skin leaving the new texture to show through
I flattened the layers
I changed the Mode to Indexed
I saved it as BMP
I imported it into qME
I changed the old skin name to skin1
I changed the new skin to skin0
I saved the model into the program folder and run Quake and it works so now some of the rubble bits look like the wall that just exploded.
Now I get back to work and change the more rubble bits tonite. Is this the right way to change skins?
#3579 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/01 05:40:44
Sounds like exactly the right way - good work.
Not So Good
#3580 posted by blaGGer [207.248.240.119] on 2005/05/01 11:41:42
I am now using txture Rock1_2. When I import back into qME I see lots of black pixels that were not in Photoshop view.
When I convert back from Photoshop RGB to Indexed my selections are Palette: exact, Forced: none, Matte: none. Are some of the colors changing somehow in my converting and qME thinks they are not Quake colors so just gives those pixels black color?
I was happy hugging the trees and now I boot them.
Indexed
#3581 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.58] on 2005/05/01 21:47:09
modes with Photoshop have always given me a lttile fuss as well. I would suggest exporting in RPG and using Wally or TexMex (which is the simplest of the two methods as it does the conversion automatically; I like touching things up in Wally though) to convert back to Quake 16 bit indexed.
The root problem could very well be that Photoshop is defaulting the RGB mode to 24 bit though, in which case, instead of my above suggestion, convert the 24 bit RGB to 16 bit RGB and then convert it to 16 bit Indexed. The translation should be smoother.
HeadThump
#3582 posted by blaGGer [211.93.9.245] on 2005/05/02 02:40:44
This works all the time for rubble bits:
export skin from qME - this is automatic BMP file
open in Photoshop - this is automatic Index Mode
change Mode to RGB - this is automatic 8 bits
copy to new layer
delete Background layer
Magic Wand in black area - Tolerence 0, Anti-alias off
Inverse selection
press Delete - this is the mask
deselect
export rubble bits texture from TexMex - use BMP
open in Photoshop - this is automatic Index Mode
change Mode to RGB - this is automatic 8 bits
use Move tool to drag texture into mask window - this opens as a new layer
swap the layers around - this puts the texture under the mask
Flatten image
change Mode to Index - Palette: exact, Forced: none
save as BMP - File Format: Windows, Depth 8 bit
Import into TexMex
do nothing - maybe drink coffee
Export as BMP
Import into qME
Save model into Quake progs
Play Quake
Time to work this out and type this 25 minutes
Time to do it now I know is 4 minutes each rubble bit
Thank you HeadThump
More Quake C Help Please
#3583 posted by blaGGer [168.12.253.66] on 2005/05/02 07:38:09
The exploding wall entity calls a function that starts a new entity (local entity new) that uses setmodel to define the rubble bits models (setmodel (new, "progs/rubble1.mdl");). I can set the skin of the exploding wall entity in the editor. I can read setting from inside the function but this is not the rubble bits so the rubble bits skin will not change yet.
How can I set the skin of that rubble model using the skin setting that I bring in from the exploding wall entity? I think like this - rubbleskin = self.skin and then set the rubble.mdl to use the skin rubbleskin. rubbleskin will be a number 1 to 4 being textured rock(1), wall(2), wood(3) and metal(4)
I try various self.skin = 1, new.skin = 1, to test the setting of the skin but get errors like - Error wall QC(17): expected;, found new.
new is the name of the entity that has been made to create the rubble bits and is the first part of the line after self.skin = 1
I hope you understand this Preach or HeadThump?
From What I Gather From The Error Message
#3584 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/05/02 09:45:33
...it just seems you forgot to terminate the line above with a semicolon;
Czg
#3585 posted by blaGGer [211.93.9.245] on 2005/05/02 10:21:50
Dohhhh. I am the dopie one.
It now works as I wanted. No tree hugging now as my girlfrend has suspisions.
Thank you czg.
Setting Monsters
#3586 posted by blaGGer [212.85.1.201] on 2005/05/02 11:29:25
Can you explain why these are two separate functions and not all in one? Is it needed because there are more than one ogres in a level?
void() monster_ogre =
void() monster_ogre_set =
And what is void() monster_ogre_marksman =
please?
Game, Set And Marksman
#3587 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/05/02 14:56:49
Normally in quake the two functions monster_ogre and monster_ogre_set are just one function. They are seperated out for the purpose of the teleport code. This way, when the server starts, the monster_ogre function is called, and decides if the ogre needs to be spawned now or later. It does the precaches now, because everything has to be precached at the start of the server.
Monster_ogre_set is called either straight after monster_ogre for a non teleporter, or when the monster teleports in. This part of the code is seperated out so the monster is non solid and invisible when it hasn't teleported in. If the monster isn't a teleport monster, the code behaves exactly the same as if the two functions were one.
Monster_ogre_marksman is a monster that ID was originally going to make different to regular ogres, but then decided to make all the ogres the same. Rather than replace all the monster_ogre_marksman entites with monster_ogre in the maps they'd made so far, they just made it so both of them do the same thing, spawn a regular ogre. So basically it does nothing.
Monster_ogre_marksman Does Do One Thing.
#3588 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/05/02 16:44:14
Ogres will infight if they are marksman/not marksman.
Note:
#3589 posted by metlslime [67.169.36.88] on 2005/05/02 21:22:46
using different classnames like you describe will break the monster obituary code (unless you fix that, too.)
Qeradiant 1.5 For Q1
#3590 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/05/03 18:53:18
How do I first of all get the texture wads to work for qeradiant 1.5 for q1? The new radiant should "support" q1. Is there someone who uses this? There's very little documents in the net. :(
Or do I have to do _everything_ q3-style (meaning all the scripts and tga's and whatnot) and just compile the resulting intermediate files to q1 bsp's with aguirre's tools?
Bambuz
#3591 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/05/04 00:41:18
All of your wads have to be in Quake/id1/
Easy as that.
#3592 posted by voodoochopstiks [85.224.215.164] on 2005/05/04 02:25:31
bambus, I suppose you're talking about gtkradiant 1.5? Make sure you go in under options and point your filepath to your quake directory.
Setting Target_speaker States
#3593 posted by Essobie [24.173.211.9] on 2005/05/04 14:23:12
I'm mapping for Enemy Territory Fortress (www.etfgame.com), which is a mod for Enemy Territory, which uses the Quake 3 engine. I've got a target_speaker that I want to have on and looping at the start of the map, turn off while a particular info_notnull is active, and turn back on when the info_notnull becomes inactive after 30 seconds.
My understanding of target_speakers is that they can only be "triggered" which toggles their state from what appears to be "play" and "don't play", except just triggering the target_speaker using activetarget and inactivetarget from the info_notnull does not work correctly for some reason. The sound starts at map start, then shuts off when the info_notnull is active, but then it never comes back on again.
I've tried implicitly setting the target_speaker to ~active/~inactive, ~active/~disabled, ~inactive/~invisible, and pretty much any other combination that seemed to make sense, but either the sound plays at the exact opposite of when it is supposed to, or it works for the first activation and then never again.
Anyone have a breakdown of how to implicitly control the states of target_speakers?
Forgot...
#3594 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/05/04 16:48:25
what it was,
AllocBlok:full
argh....
Essobie
#3595 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/05/04 18:02:28
I'm not sure, but I know someone who might know, so hold tight, and check back in about 6-12 hours :D
Qeradiant 1.5 For Q1
#3596 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/05/05 06:00:37
Thanks Blitz, it helped. But I'm sorry, I still have problems. Now I can texture fine in the editor, but the resulting .map file has no references to the used wad file (I checked it with a text editor) and thus the compile fails to put textures in the bsp (although it seems to work otherwise).
The settings menus are really spartan and there's very little documentation about q1 mapping.
I guess I could add the wad references by hand but it's a hack.
How are you doing all this?
There Is Probably
#3597 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.127] on 2005/05/05 06:49:13
a better way of doing this in Radiant, but using my compilers, you can have a wad with the same name as the map file in the same dir (so called default wad). The compiler will use that wad if no wad key exists or the referenced wads can't be found.
You can also use wild card specifications in the wad key (e.g. "mywad.wad;*.wad").
Incompatible Demos
#3598 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.14] on 2005/05/05 07:03:33
Does anyone have a (preferrably small) Q1 demo file that is corrupt or otherwise unplayable in standard engines (e.g. FitzQuake)? I'd like some test material for a new demo conversion/validation tool.
Bambuz
#3599 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/05 07:58:04
Add the wad information to your map's worldspawn with the following key/value:
"wad"
"c:/blah/textures.wad"
Unless you already did this and it still isn't working, in which case I'm not sure what's up :/
Also: the line length limit on this forum is a fucking joke.
Sounds
#3600 posted by blaGGer [213.189.188.233] on 2005/05/05 12:13:36
I looking for new sounds for Quake 1SP. Explosions, breaking glass, avalanches, anything new and ready to play.
I do not know if there is a special format of if I can use wav files without change.
Is there sites that can help can somebody tell me please.
There Is A Special Format
#3601 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/05/05 15:17:27
As far as I know, the .wavs have to be 8bit/11khz/mono/PCM
You can convert any .wav you find to that fidelity as long as you have a proper audio editor...I'm sure there are freeware programs out there that can do it.
Marcher Fortress
#3602 posted by blaGGer [211.93.9.245] on 2005/05/06 11:08:06
Is the monsters in Ben Woodings Marcher Fortress in the public domane?
Do you know were to get them?
Please.
For God's Sake, Please!!!!!!
#3603 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/05/06 12:27:57
PLEEEEEEEASE!
The Imp Mr. Kinn Used
#3604 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.49] on 2005/05/06 18:10:10
is on this page if I am not mistaken
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
HeadThump
#3605 posted by blaGGer [212.85.12.187] on 2005/05/07 01:56:41
Great thank you. Do you know of the gauroch.qc?
I think metslime and me want the same thing so I try to get my map finished first.
I'm Sorry
#3606 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/05/07 22:02:41
I'm drawing a blank. I don't recall what the gauroch is, from Necro-Kell's project maybe? Where is Necros these days anyway?
Gauroch
#3607 posted by blaGGer [204.59.5.199] on 2005/05/07 23:42:52
He is a two leg creature that throws blue things at you in Marcher Fortress. There are two types. A white one you see first near the tree when you get up the stairs. And a brown one that is under the bridge. The brown on is harder to kill and he runs at you fast and he throws gold bombs at you. He is good and would like to yous him in my levels.
Yes, I Recall It, I Just Didn't Know The Name Of It
#3608 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/05/08 00:28:02
regardless of its origin, I'm sure Kinn coded the QuakeC for it so you'll need his permission though you could simply have the end user download the map into their Marcher directory so there would be no need for rebundling the pack file.
HeadThump
#3609 posted by blaGGer [195.176.135.170] on 2005/05/08 00:51:35
Thank you for trying but when I place a monster_gauroch in the map it does not appear in the game.
The monster spawning works but exploding walls do not. I have other THINGS in my map that are not in Marcher Fortress. I have built my own progs.dat file from things I have found in the public domane.
I must try to talk to Kinn.
Kinn, are you there?
BlaGGer
#3610 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/08 07:25:18
The Marcher Gauroch, Imp and Spider are models originally from Hexen. Kinn reworked the skins and wrote entirely new code for them.
As a n00b mapper you can't always expect experienced members of the community to deliver their content on request.
Custom code is made available only at the discretion of the author, so unless it is explicitly stated somewhere - in a readme, webpage or tutorial - it is unlikely they want it available for other projects.
If you want to try making your own monsters by the same method - i.e. taking an existing model from a Quake-engine game ( such as one of the old mission packs or Hexen ) and writing new code - you'll get some help here from coders etc.
If you haven't made and released a map before though, it is adviseable to make your first project using only id content i.e. the stuff that originally comes with Quake. You'll avoid tripping up on a lot of technical problems and the like. Once you are more familiar with the basics you'll be in a better position to seek detailed assistance or, better yet, to start working on your own custom content :)
HTH
Kell
#3611 posted by blaGGer [195.245.185.18] on 2005/05/08 09:32:30
I understand your explaining.
I will take the monsters from Hexen and will write the code and will ask for help here if I stuck on code. I have demo of Hexen2 and will take it apart now. Thank you for patience with me.
BlaGGer
#3612 posted by Jago [80.223.67.226] on 2005/05/09 01:41:22
IIRC, out of the custom monsters seen in Marcher Fortress, only the Imp is present in the Hexen 2 demo. You'll have to "take apart" the original full game to get the others.
Jago
#3613 posted by blaGGer [213.201.178.130] on 2005/05/09 13:37:10
Thank you. I could not find the gauroch so thought it may not be in the demo. I will not buy the game so I will not get the gauroch. The imp is in the public domane already also the spiders. I am looking at the archer as he might be good for throwing different missiles but I would need to take the bow away or maybe change it.
I have to learn qME first and I have to learn coloring. Does anyone know of sites to learn about converting Hexen to Quake - Google knows nothing.
Lightwave Vertex Color / Weight Map + Q3map2
#3614 posted by megaman [213.6.36.113] on 2005/05/10 11:31:42
Does anyone know how to get lightwave's vertex color or weight map into q3 maps via q3map2 and use them for rgbgen vertex or the like ?
I Tried That...
#3615 posted by Shallow [84.12.28.134] on 2005/05/10 14:34:58
With ASE models with vertex alpha and vertex colour. I don't think it works.
Essobie...
#3616 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/05/11 19:40:08
...I'm not sure anyone got back to you, but why not use two target_speaker, one that stops then one that starts?
Vertex Color Stuff
#3617 posted by megaman [145.254.185.213] on 2005/05/12 15:44:07
anyone one interested should look here http://www.quake3world.com/forum/v...
thanks for the input shallow.
Quake Mdl
#3618 posted by blaGGer [81.144.221.98] on 2005/05/13 05:24:55
I using 3dMax7 at work to make models for Quake1SP. They good I think. When I load those into qME I get a "numbers of triangles" not matching error message.
Can any one tell me how to convert from 3dsMax7 to qME? If no can you tell me the best ways to make new models or do I have to use the qME.
Easy Fix (and Then 4 More Paragraphs For Good Luck)
#3619 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/05/13 06:50:26
I suspect what you're doing is using the import frames command, which isn't what you want to do when starting a new model. There are two commands for importing into QME, "import objects" and "import frames"
Import objects adds the triangles in another file to the current model. It takes the pose it reads from the file, and puts the triangles in that pose in every frame in the model's animation.
Import frames takes the pose it reads from the selected file, and creates a new animation frame in the model. It then moves the triangles that are already part of the model to match the pose that it has read. Obviously, this will only work if there are the same number of triangles in the current model as there are in the file.
So, when you create a new model, there are no triangles, and so you'll get the error message you mentioned if you try to use import frames. Use import object and it should work.
However, be warned, QMe will not import any animation or UV mapping that you did on the max model, just the triangles and the pose at time 0. To get the rest of the animation in, export each frame to a seperate .3ds file, and use import frames(not import objects) to load them.
The UV mapping is another matter, QMe has no support for importing a UV map, and only allows you to create 2 sided planar mappings in the editor. This is because that's the way the original quake models were made, and when QMe was written nobody knew .mdl supported anything else.
So, how do you get a model with a nice UV map into quake? Well, it's a bit more complicated. Track down a copy of the pop'n'fresh MD3 exporter for max(polycount is a good place to start). Now, rather than export the finished model from max to .3ds, export to md3. Finally, open it in the latest version of quark and save it as a classic Q1 model. You should end up with one mdl, with identical skinmap and animations as the md3.
I make the last step sound easier than it often is, Quark seems to have immense difficulty loading the skin with the md3 if you don't set up the directories exactly right. I've been intending for ages to write a detailed tutorial on making this md3 to mdl conversion, so if you get stuck here just say and I might actually get round to it!
Preach:
#3620 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/05/13 12:27:48
so .mdl DOES support more than just two-sided planar mapping of a speciall-deformed baseframe?
Hmm, if you set every edge to be a border edge, i guess that means you could map each triangle seperately... would that work?
Md3 -> Mdl
#3621 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/13 13:54:33
From what I understand of the .mdl format through my own recent fiddlings, the UV map will appear in Quark because it must be splitting the verts on the model for each actual animation frame in order to correspond to the pseudo-UV map. The .mdl stores not only the location of the verts for each frame, but their relationship to each other in the mesh as a whole ( which is why changing an existing model cause the .ms2 to look utterly screwed ingame ).
What I suspect you're left with is a .mdl with many more verts than it actually appears to be made of, because any vert that has been split for the UV map must be made of 2 or more verts occupying the same coords in the animation frames as well.
I think.
Preach, would this be the case?
Kell
#3622 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.123] on 2005/05/13 15:11:25
go finish what should be finished
^_~
Kell
#3623 posted by PuLSaR [83.239.253.30] on 2005/05/13 15:13:11
ya, what vondur said
Quake MDL
#3624 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/05/13 16:54:46
I know I am just a greenhorn in this case...but
Making new models in QMLE gave me a rather strange experience in extentions in which the models are imported and exported.
I used a AM2000 animation studio, which gave me the intention it would work good with Quake models, as it used the *.mdl extention.
This was not true, because one has 1-4-16 polygons per patch. I couldn't load them in the animator. So I went searching for a manner they would.
First I tried excisting Quake1 models to change in extention so they would be campatible.
The first attempts I made was with the Q2mdlr9b modeller. This was capeable to import Q1
models and export them to ASC and 3DS. This 3DS I imported in Milkshape and exported again to DXF. This was the right extention to import it in the AM2000 animator.
Then I could manupilate the model, give it bones, so I could give it all the animated frames
it needed to export them to 1 spline dxf frames to import them in QMLE.
To my advantage I could make a skin base model and tear it totaly apart, because theanimated frames were already made. This gave me a good oppertunity to skin the model at the best.
I know Milkshape has it own way of doing these things. I have tried, but never succeeded.
In this way I managed to transport the Q2 model grrll to Qmle for Quake1.
I could transport the Q1 models to Q2, although it would tale some time.(and *.qc knowhow!)
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Q1grr...
So what I intentionally mean is, why not try the extention import and export of the Q2mdlr9b
and Milkshape to transport your model from Max3D to Qmle?
Multi-vertex Mania
#3625 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/05/13 16:55:36
Yeah, that's pretty much it, the number of vertexes in your model is exactly equal to the number of vertexes you can see on the UV map. This could potentially cause a problem, as the original GLquake vertex limit is only 1000. If you're making a model that has that nearly that many verts already, you may be stuck with the two sided planar mapping. It also makes the file that much bigger, but generally the animations are smaller than the skin every time. I suppose if the model had lots of frames you might notice.
On the plus side it doesn't seem to hurt rendering by a noticable amount, so it's just a matter of making sure you don't ever break the vertexes when you're editing/animating. There are two ways I can see of safely doing this. One is to animate the whole thing as an md3, before you convert it. The other is to have two copies of your model, one with the uv splits, and one without. Since QMe imports triangles not vertexes, you can animate the non split version, then import the animations into the split model. You just have to hope that the order of the triangles doesn't change...go for option 1 is my advice.
But it's very much worth it by my reckoning, the skins are much easier to paint and they use the skin space far more efficiently.
Finally, very important skin tip of the day: Make your skins in power of 2 sizes, like 256x256. You might object and say that none of the original quake skins are like that. This is because they were made before the advent of glquake and all that. Opengl/your graphics card will resize your skin to a power of 2 size when it loads it, so your skins will be sharper ingame if you make them the right size to start.
#3626 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/13 17:18:17
Preach: thx, that's cool. Though the issue with animating in Max and having higher vert counts is already relevant to much of what necros and I have been doing ( note: necros now does all our animating in 3DSM then exports the frames - one by one - over to qME ); many verts, many many frames...
Also, re: powers of 2. Right off the bat I endevoured to make our model skins PoT, mostly out of habit from tex0ring. FitzQuake, afaik actually solves non PoT skins by initially 'padding' the skins out the next PoT and using those. metl r0x0rz y'see.
Von/PuLSaR: mapping etc. is done. I'm just waiting on necros getting his elven ass out of WoW and back on the hotdog - I need my codemonkey to fix0r some things.
Preach/kell:
#3627 posted by metlslime [24.5.42.20] on 2005/05/14 00:06:46
preach: actually it's the application's responsibility to resize the texture before passing the data to opengl, but you're correct that you get much better results with gl engines if you make textures powers of two.
kell: correct, fitzquake pads the skins instead of resampling them, because they don't have to tile like world textures do. I also do it for graphics like the console background and menu images and status bar images, since those don't have to tile either.
Kell
#3628 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.123] on 2005/05/14 04:21:08
damn this blizzard fuckers! argh
FitzQuake
#3629 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/14 04:35:02
Um...talking of both Chapters and FitzQuake...
Since there are a few skyboxes used in the chapters maps, is FQ 0.8 likely to be released soon? It would be unwise for players to be using 0.75 due to the skybug, but I really want to recommend FQ as the engine of choice for Chapters.
Von: I know. Bastards. Curse them for making addictive games!
I Lost My Brother To WoW
#3630 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.227] on 2005/05/14 21:35:33
he'll never get his pool open at the rate he is going. My summer social life is screwed. Damn, Blizzard. Damn them to Hell.
Don't Worry...
#3631 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/05/14 23:02:23
He'll be so into WoW in a few weeks, that he'll end up selling the pool on eBay to buy some rare item he needs in the game.
Kell:
#3632 posted by metlslime [24.5.42.20] on 2005/05/15 00:15:26
well, maybe... i'm really close, but things are also going kind of slow. Maybe after E3 i can wrap it up.
Noooo!
#3633 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.248] on 2005/05/15 00:25:15
The pool is the only thing that gets the ladies to overlook my creepy outward demeanor that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.
Vertexes
#3634 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/05/15 13:45:02
Jumping in with both feet to the fore, what is it the causes us to need to limit vertexes to 1000? I am also playing with models and have strayed over 1000 and the model is not yet finished (super-strength warewolf type creature who spawns from dead... no, hang on, can't tell you everything!)
Rock Textures
#3635 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/05/15 13:47:24
Just watched Indie do his 'leap of faith'
and I swear that rock texture is a Quake original :-)
Mike
#3636 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/15 13:59:17
I suspect the rock texture to which you refer would be rock3_8. It is similar.
re: 1000 verts - I haven't hit a vert or poly limit with Q1 .mdl, though necros and I did exceed the number of frames limit.
I guess it's just another limit imposed by the structure of the file format and how it saves the information. Don't really know what to suggest other than using a composite model i.e. two or more models coded to act in unison like Armagon's torso+legs. Not an ideal solution for what you seem to be making I'm afraid.
Kell
#3637 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/05/15 14:18:05
I just popped a 2333 vertex model (it was a wall torch without flames that I downloaded from a 3DMAX site and it looked rather nice)into FitzQuake just to see what would happen and it crashes with a 'too many vertices' message.
Have you got a 1000+ vert model to play or is the 1000 cast-in-stone?
#3638 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/15 14:27:30
no 1000+ vert models - the highest I have are in the low hundreds. I doubt it's a limit you'll be able to exceed in anything other than DP or the like. 1000+ is well above conventional Quake size for a model.
Kell
#3639 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/05/15 14:40:41
OK, thanks. Clearly I am going to have to hone my modelling skills by some degree - perhaps if I made SuperWolf less hairy or give him less teeth and claws, or somehow chunkify him...
Damn, he was begining to look so good. Mind you, I hadn't skinned him yet! And when I say good, I mean I am the only one who has seen him, and he is the first thing I have ever created, and my mum said my scotch eggs were the best she'd ever tasted when I knew they tasted like soiled carpet. So for good, read 'partly recognisable'.
Heh
#3640 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/05/15 15:05:39
well, at 1000 verts I'm sure there must have been some quality definition to the model. But yeah, take a closer look at the id models if you haven't already and see how they represent physiology in as few polys as possible. It's surprising how much you can achieve with only the basics.
And don't scotch eggs always taste like soiled carpet...?
1000 Verts
#3641 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/05/15 15:46:13
I've just checked that if a model has more than 1000 vertices then it can't be loaded in standard glquake. (although oddly enough dos/winquake won't crash until about 2000). Lots of custom engines bump this up, as there are a few mods that were released pre GLquake with 1000+ vertex models that won't run in GL.
As for the theoretical limit in the mdl format, I don't really know. I suspect it's higher than 2000 simply because that's a kinda odd number to be limited to, you'd expect a power of two at least. And QMe can load models with more vertexes in, and saves them without difficulty. So if you're using a custom engine you can up this one a fair bit. Then again, if you're gonna use a custom engine you might as well use md3 instead.
So, what other solutions exist? Well, what has been done in the past is to supply two copies of a model, one that works in GLquake and a better quality one for use in custom engines/winquake.
Bit on the messy side though. If there's an obvious break in a model, like a seperate weapon or something you could make two seperate models and just use the QC to tie them together. This doesn't work well with player models, but you should get away with it on a monster.
If you do, make sure you make the attached piece walkmove with the monster rather than teleport it to the monster's origin each animation frame. Frame interpolation moves the monster smoothly between animation frames if it's trying to walkmove, and if you teleport it per animation frame it'll look jerky. If you teleport it every server frame it'll be smooth, but also it's probably less efficient.
Finally there's good old optimisation - from cutting out unnecessary bits, to only unwrapping parts of the model with the UV split method, doing others with the planar mapping, then stitching the two together in a nightmare of fiddling and pain. Don't do the second one if you can avoid it, but if you must, try using qme3.0 rather than 3.1. For some odd reason it's actually better when it comes to editing skins.
Hmm
#3642 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/05/15 16:59:30
glquake has the max verts set at 1024 and dos/winquake has them at 2000 i think. I recently switched fitzquake to 2000, but in all cases, the reason for this maximum is just becuase they wanted to load models into a fixed-size buffer and since they knew how big their own models were, they set the number to be just big enough.
JPLambert
#3643 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.168] on 2005/05/16 15:10:15
Is your email working?
AguirRe
#3644 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/05/16 23:49:52
yes I will reply your mail this morning
Verts
#3645 posted by Mike Woodham [81.144.221.98] on 2005/05/17 05:28:32
Thanks for all the comments.
I am not clear about the advantages of md3 over mdl: I am only talking Quake1SP and the only engine I use is FitzQuake. I have tried boning-up via Google but so many links I come across are dead. Is there a simple statement to highlight the advantageous use of md3?
Meanwhile, the mistake I made with the first Scotch Egg was that I left the shell on. I fared a little better on the second one but it was a real sod trying to keep the yolk in place while I closed the minced meat around it. But hey, one lives and learns.
.
#3646 posted by Tron [202.7.183.131] on 2005/05/17 08:39:45
You left the shell on? That's classic. :)
Anyway, a legitimate and all encompasing question.
Where do people think would be the best place to head to start learning the basics of doom3 mapping? I have fired up the editor and it scares the bejesus out of me, and figured people here might know where the most useful tutes are to be found.
Keep in mind that apart from using 3dsmax the most advanced thing I have used for game stuff is probably worldcraft. :)
Tron
#3647 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.255.30] on 2005/05/17 09:06:37
Finish TronDM3 first.
Md3some
#3648 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/05/17 09:40:07
Md3 features over mdl:
Supports a greater precision in storing the animations.
Probably has higher max limits on vertexes and triangles and stuff.
Allows you to do a proper UV map without having to seperate the faces on the mesh.
Supports 24 bit colour skins - although using all the colours for a model for Q1 will probably make it look out of place.
Support tags - markers inside the model that allow you to attach, for example, a weapon model to the tag. The tag can be animatited, so it could follow the motion of a hand throughout the animation.
Support multiple skins for a single model - so you could skin the head and the body on different textures, one 256x256 and one 128x128 if that's a better fit than all on one 256x256.
Supports some complicated method of changing the skins using .skin files. It's like multiple skins for quake, but more complicated. Not very handy in my book, for most quake 1 purposes anyway.
I think that's all the big differences.
Tron
#3649 posted by Kinn [81.152.112.94] on 2005/05/17 11:43:16
Where do people think would be the best place to head to start learning the basics of doom3 mapping?
Get your info direct from the developers at iddevnet: http://www.iddevnet.com/doom3/
If you get stuck, feel free to ask the gurus on this board, or in #terrafusion. DOOMEdit is pretty easy to get the hang of if you've used similar editors. (It took me about a week or two to feel fully comfortable in DOOMEdit after making the transition from WorldCraft/Hammer).
Note:
#3650 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/05/17 13:18:09
fitzquake does not support md3.
Mdl/md3
#3651 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.251] on 2005/05/17 13:33:33
That's settled, mdl it is then.
Doom3world.org
#3652 posted by Doom3world [82.96.100.100] on 2005/05/17 16:06:24
http://www.doom3world.org/index.ph...
Is the place to race.
Don't listen to the nay sayers, check it out for yourself
Metlslime:
#3653 posted by Spirit [213.39.219.24] on 2005/05/18 04:26:55
Will there ever be a linux port of Fitzquake? I just converted to the ubuntu hippies and now I'm badly missing my favorite engine.
Spirit:
#3654 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/05/18 13:19:22
Doubtful, becuase i don't have linux.
BUT LUNIX IS FREEE!!!
#3655 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.255.30] on 2005/05/18 16:30:35
Can Anyone Confirm
#3656 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.228] on 2005/05/19 06:50:10
if a Q1 trigger_counter is a point or brush based entity? There are many maps with either one, but it appears to me that it should be point based, just like trigger_relay.
In big maps the extra unnecessary brushes may put the engine over the bmodel limit.
It's A Point Entity
#3657 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/05/19 07:15:14
Thanks
#3658 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.252] on 2005/05/19 11:44:01
I noticed that your earlier maps used brush based ones and the later point based. My guess is that the WC fgd file suggested a brush based and that's why most WC created maps have brush based counters.
Old, But If The Shoe Fits...
#3659 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.115.250] on 2005/05/20 06:25:25
Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing.
What Frib Said
#3660 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2005/05/20 07:51:20
and it's only good for servers, not for usual home puter...
AgiurRe
#3661 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.119.27] on 2005/05/20 11:10:24
how to fugure out what brush causes a problem in terrain built by triangle method? Is is extended instead of its original size and covers all the floor in the room. It also wrote *** WARNING 03: Line 20930: Brush with duplicate plane.
But how to find that line 20930. I don't want to count from the top
.
#3662 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/05/20 12:10:27
i use textpad.
you can skip to a line number. then look at the brush entry to find out what brush # it is, and then go into your editor, search for that brush number and delete it (or erase the brush entry yourself in the text editor).
PuLSaR
#3663 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.42] on 2005/05/20 12:41:49
What necros said; use a text editor with line number handling like TextPad ( http://www.textpad.com ) and find the offending face and brush.
Some map editors include comments in the map file that can help you backtrack to the editor, otherwise you'll have to use the tex info and (if you're up for it) three-point face definition to find the brush in the editor.
However, I doubt that this particular face causes any trouble as it's just a duplicate plane and discarded by qbsp. It shouldn't cause any infinite planes.
Well
#3664 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/05/20 13:09:23
after 5th attempt I found that problem brush and deleted it. Though I still have no idea what was wrong with that brush.
And thanks for pointing me at textpad, downloading it right now
The GTKRadiant Team
#3665 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.172] on 2005/05/24 21:38:16
has a genius, nay, a profound genius for creating bugs for Radiant that did not exist in previous packages.
I use 1.4 (I wont use 1.5 becaues it requires downloading and installing a WinXP .dll that screws up my system), and I've had minimal problems with 1.4 working on maps previously.
Tonight, I reset it to use the Quake2 settings, and the surface inspector does something really off the mark. Pressing 'S' to bring the surface inspector up works like a Control-Z combo reversing my previous texture work. This is, of course, less than useless to me.
I've never seen this happen before, so I assume it is unique to their Quake2 settings. Any suggestions?
Hopefully A Simple Question.
#3666 posted by Morfans [213.199.128.155] on 2005/05/25 04:03:24
Y'know Quake, right?
Y'know e2m6, The Dismal Oubliette, right?
Y'know the room that lead down to the exit with the pillar in the middle and the slowly sinking floor where stuff teleports in as you go down?
What kind of thingy is the slowly dropping floor. Is it a slow lift/platform? or a "train"? Or some other kind of thingy entirely?
Thanks.
I'm Pretty Sure It's A Func_door.
#3667 posted by czg [195.204.39.141] on 2005/05/25 04:07:43
Since it makes a door sound and all.
Morfans
#3668 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2005/05/25 04:29:21
i'm more than sure it's func_door
since it makes a door sound and all
(it might use negative 'lip' key to move that far)
Thanks Guys.
#3669 posted by Morfans [213.199.128.152] on 2005/05/25 05:04:08
Yeah, it's a door.
It didn't occur to me that it might be a very big, very slow moving vertical door. :-)
Cheers, I owe you both one. (one of anything you desire...)
Tron
#3670 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/05/31 10:15:02
hey good to see you man!!! will you finish tromdm3??? doom3 suck :) finish the map...look like will be a great one!!!
Rats On The Run
#3671 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/03 07:00:16
finally got it working so far. Adding new monster, but now...
they only appear when I use a brush substraction. Otherwise I can hear them, but they are invissible. In an empty map they squeek but are probably stuck in the groundbrush.
When I put in one brush, they come out of the brush, and dissappear(?)
When I use notarget in a brush substraction, they just sit and wait, untill I press notarget again, then they're gone.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Quake...
help ! sinking ship !
Quake101.wad
#3672 posted by Ciprian Caraman [82.78.65.200] on 2005/06/04 03:56:32
I search for quake101.wad or qoole.wad ALL the Net for the last weeks but I can't found that files. I found some links but they are obsolete. If you can help me, please, answer.
Thanks,
Ciprian
Quake101.wad
#3673 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/06/04 06:14:25
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Thanks Quake101.wad
#3674 posted by Ciprian Caraman [82.78.65.200] on 2005/06/04 10:01:51
Also I post messages on almost ten forums. Finally, with your help, I found it. Thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Ciprian
Lost Rats
#3675 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/05 08:17:10
then I posted the wad the same time on the Quake forum, Ciprian.
Those rats, could it be something with the MoveBox_Solid. As they vanish "into" the brushes?
Kell
#3676 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.43] on 2005/06/06 07:15:00
Is your email working? I haven't received anything from you for a very long time.
AguirRe
#3677 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/06 12:27:03
It is, I just haven't been checking it for a long time, since Chapters dominated my communications, my sleeping patterns and my deteriorating mental state for several months ( I can't remember the actual penalty for seeing a polyp in the Call Of Cthulhu RPG, but I reckon both necros and I lost 1D6 Sanity Points just trying to make the damn thing fly )
Will check and respond.
Rats On The 2nd Run
#3678 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/06 18:34:32
How can it be a model sinks in the groundbrush,
and when this brush is substracted it becomes visible?
Q1 Tools Update
#3679 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.50] on 2005/06/10 02:57:20
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . All engines are updated with several features/fixes, e.g. improved demo playback handling. Light now includes multi target support and improved trigger checks. There's also a new demo conversion/validation tool; ConvDem. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
Hl
#3680 posted by drew [24.64.75.217] on 2005/06/10 10:32:42
does anybody have half life textures converted for Quake?
Zaka
#3681 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/06/10 14:15:58
used something in his maps i think, you should be able to rip them. http://www.saunalahti.fi/zakaa/
Arhg
#3682 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/06/13 23:04:34
OK, Quake question.
I have a very small map, < 150 brushes total, and yet I am having an issue where a brush is greying out in software/Winquake, and turning into sky in DP/GLquake.
The brush is a simple, 6 face rectangle, seen here: http://blitz.circa1984.com/fucking...
I am using Tyrann's compile tools as well, if that helps.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Nevermind
#3683 posted by Blitz [24.218.169.151] on 2005/06/14 00:00:04
The brush next to it was causing the problem.
What The Hell
#3684 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/06/14 07:20:56
is that? The sword looks huge.
Target Limit
#3685 posted by . [68.255.59.243] on 2005/06/15 06:51:56
Is there any way to up the limit of entities with targets you can have in Quake 1? When I was working on PH8DM2 I wanted to have lights that you could shoot out. They worked fine, but I could only have about I dunno, several, instead of dozens.
AFAIK There's No Limit
#3686 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.19] on 2005/06/15 07:47:09
on targeted entities, but you can't have more than 32 switchable (=targeted) lights. This means unique trigger chains; you can use same targetname on many lights.
I See...
#3687 posted by . [68.255.59.243] on 2005/06/15 07:59:10
So, might there be anyway to up the limit from 32? My idea is that you could voluntarily shoot out a light or 2 for effect, or maybe once you get into a firefight, your shots or enemies shots might hit a light and kinda play on the map's mood.
Not Without
#3688 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.169] on 2005/06/15 10:10:18
both tool and engine/QC support, which may cause compatibility problems. They all use the entity style key to communicate this functionality.
If it's only QC, you might make it by adding new keys that are transparent to tools/engine but handled by custom QC. I may be totally off here ...
Well
#3689 posted by . [68.255.59.243] on 2005/06/15 10:32:03
Since I am too dumb to learn QC, I guess I am SOL.
I'll just have to do the cliche walk-into-room-lights-go-out-oh-no routine.
There's Also A Limit...
#3690 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/06/15 11:28:31
in terms of "lightstyles." There are 64 lightstyles, and 32 of them are reserved for switchable lights, and the other 32 are for things like strobe, pulse, candle flicker, etc. To go past 64 lightstyles would require an engine change to increase, and might require a network protocol change, too.
But, since there are only about 12 standard lightstyles actually being used, you could change the quakec to use the other ~52 slots for switchable lights.
QuArK Mappers For Q1
#3691 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.155] on 2005/06/16 05:01:15
I've tried to fix the bugs and improve the help/hints for the Q1 entity definitions in QuArK 6.x; DataQ1.qrk. This is similar to the work of CZG's updated Quake.fgd file in WC and I've also cross-checked between this file and other available sources, e.g. the actual QC-behaviour.
This is basically a work in progress, but I think most of the stuff is in place. The file is here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/Dat... . Backup the original and just replace it with this version.
Any comments are welcome.
Q1 Killtargets
#3692 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.209] on 2005/06/16 12:13:09
Aren't killtargeted objects restored properly when just issuing an engine "restart" command?
I've an item that should float in the air and using a func_wall beneath the item that's killtargeted by a trigger_once surrounding the player spawn point, it only works properly when the map is restarted using the "map" command; "restart" or "changelevel" doesn't work (the item drops to the floor).
Interesting...
#3693 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/06/16 12:30:42
i assumed these all caused the level to load the same way (with the exception that players carry over stats during a changelevel)
It may be a bug related to the order in which edicts are processed; if so, maybe adding a trigger_relay with a small wait will solve it.
Yes
#3694 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/16 12:40:00
what's happening is almost certainly related to the very short delay - and variation thereof - occurring on map load.
The solution to your problem may simply be adding "delay" "1" to the trigger_once that surrounds the info_player_start.
Thanks
#3695 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.182] on 2005/06/16 14:16:36
I also suspect some race problem, but it's surprisingly consistent. Also, most engines behave the same way, but DP always fail to suspend the item no matter how the map is loaded.
I'll try adding the delay.
Delay Did The Trick
#3696 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.76] on 2005/06/16 14:49:37
..
DataQ1.qrk
#3697 posted by Bobbins [80.3.160.6] on 2005/06/16 18:26:14
Cheers aguiRe, very useful!
I'd gotten so used to some of the item_*s being positioned off center in game, makes a change having them sit where they should be.
The light attenuations in a drop-down menu and mouseover hints for _sunlight values in worldspawn definitely beats keeping an open text file of the light.exe -h output around.
What else is left to update or add to the definitions?
Basically
#3698 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.29] on 2005/06/17 02:50:58
it'd be things that I've missed or that I've decided not to add for various reasons. I've tried to strike a balance between completeness and clutter. I've also avoided keys that only exist in one tool or engine.
Player's Width In Game
#3699 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/17 05:27:49
If a player is on a walkway high above lava, and immediately in front of him is a laser trap (or a Drole firing whatever it is he fires), what are the critical dimensions to allow him to side-step the laser (or other nasty projectile) and not fall off the walkway.
So:-
what is the player's width and at what point will he topple?
is the weapon's collision detection based on the size of the laser model (or nail or rocket etc), or is it more to do with the bounding box of the player?
I am trying to work out the optimum width of the walkway to allow a side-step but with the proviso that it must be done carefully to avoid going over the edge. And it's not actually lava underneath so death will not be inevitable if the player goes too far and does fall off.
In experiments, I can go to the edge of a ledge and move sideways to the point where I expect to fall off but don't. Looking down, I am in mid-air. I don't want the player to have too much room but I want it to be only just achievable. That way death or injury is quite possible but not guaranteed.
Sounds awful, I know, but I am trying not to give too much away.
Bbox
#3700 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/17 06:18:28
the Q1 player bbox ( also the bbox for all small monsters e.g. scrag, knight...i.e. the second collision hull size ) is afaik 32x32x56. Could be a couple of units taller, not sure.
Because it's a box that slides around the map always oriented the same way, the player will not fall until the very edge of the bbox has passed beyond the edge of a surface beneath. So you can be standing with 31 units sticking out over thin air and you won't fall because 1 unit remains in contact with the walkway.
Just as a useful guide, textures that are 32x32 ( e.g. the E3 glowing rune plates, each of the chequer flagstones in the knave wad ) are the equivalent of the bottom of the bbox - what I refer to as 1 player footprint.
Projectiles, except in some very unusual cases perhaps, are points not volumes. Collision is calculated for a point hitting a volume. So as long as the projectile whooshes past even 1 unit away from the bbox it will miss, even if the polys of the projectile model in question ( rocket, drolebomb, vorepod ) pass through the bbox.
So, technically, you could build a very narrow beam - say 8 units wide, and that is fucking narrow - and as long as the incoming projectile was fired almost exactly parallel down the center line of the beam, the player could sidestep to hang over thin air by maybe 30 units without falling off and leaving a couple of units between their bbox and the projectile.
In practice, this would be essentially impossible to achieve. The determining factor here is not really the physical dimensions, but the movement. Try it and see - manuevering to an accuracy of anything under about 32 units is rather demanding in combat.
Kell
#3701 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/17 07:38:41
Thanks for that. Now I understand - my 64 units is plenty generous enough then.
And I whistle while I work....
And
#3702 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/06/17 13:00:32
you can bunny zig-zag and use air control to stay over the void most of the time. ;) Ok, best not to design maps for that, but still, works vs vore balls on a beam.
Quake Logo Shadowing
#3703 posted by . [68.78.218.141] on 2005/06/17 17:36:45
How was this Q logo shadow done?
- http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/sh...
- http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/sh...
There's A Room In The Sky
#3704 posted by Fat Controller [222.153.232.235] on 2005/06/17 17:55:58
made entirely out of SKY* textured brushes. Inside, some solids and a few powerful lights.
At least, that's one way I know of doing it.
#3705 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/17 18:11:46
Actually it's not a room, just a single thick skybrush with the Q inside. I did the same in kdma, with a pentagram. Newer light compilers may deal with skybrush permeability differently though.
Hmmm
#3706 posted by . [68.78.218.141] on 2005/06/17 18:41:12
That wouldn't work with my idea. See the light texes here?
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/op...
I was gonna have light emit from inside them, essentially, so that even the little bits that make up the frame cast a shadow. At least that same idea with something more... I dunno. That's just an idea.
Shadow
#3707 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/18 06:36:38
the logo is placed above the sky texture, which is in this case a func_illusion.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/shado...
the screenshot shows a picture with the func_illusion invissible because the viewer is in it.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/shado...
standing on ground, it would look like:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/shado...
has anyone yet a solution for my rats which got lost in a brush???
Phait:
#3708 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/06/18 12:01:37
What kell said. See that floating brush in your second screenshot? Noclip inside there and see what you find.
I Did Noclip
#3709 posted by . [68.78.218.141] on 2005/06/18 12:20:41
And saw nothing. :|
Help
#3710 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/18 12:36:44
Can someone help MadFox as I do not quite understand his problem and would therefore benefit from knowing the answer - you know, reverse logic.
Besides which, I was thinking of using rats in my next level.
Phait
#3711 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/18 12:57:13
It depends what engine you use. In a software engine the Q brushes are visible. In FitzQuake they're not. I assume this is related to the more efficient unseen face culling thing. But take our word for it, the brushes are there at least for the compiling of the map and therefore shadowcasting.
Mike/MadFox
#3712 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/18 14:13:20
I'm afraid I don't quite understand the rat problem either. Sounds like it might be to do with the position of the model relative to the entity origin, but I dunno. It may also be a qc thing, which ain't my field of expertise :P
Phait:
#3713 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/06/18 14:22:37
oops, yeah, i guess they're not actually visible in fitzquake, unless you set r_oldskyleaf to 1.
MadFox
#3714 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/18 15:09:25
Have you downloaded the rat model and .qc from somewhere or have you created them from scratch yourself?
Too Many Light Styles On A Face...
#3715 posted by . [68.78.218.141] on 2005/06/18 15:30:35
I have this really neat idea that I want to implement in my hangar:
as the bay doors close, there are 10 light entities that successively turn off. The 1st light turns off at 3 seconds (it's 2500 bright), the 2nd one turns off at 4 seconds (it's 2300 bright) and so on, for 10 lights that each decrement by 200. The effect would be vanishing light inside the hangar, since the doors are closing. While it works with smaller light values and less lights, I'm getting a bunch of:
WARNING: Too many light styles on a face
lightmap point near (-1032 -833 -152), tech04_8
light->origin (-2560 -1024 128)
WARNING: Too many light styles on a face
lightmap point near (-1102 -837 -175), crate1_top
light->origin (-2624 -1024 128)
WARNING: Too many light styles on a face
lightmap point near (-1102 -837 -175), crate1_top
light->origin (-2592 -1024 128)
WARNING: Too many light styles on a face
lightmap point near (-1102 -837 -175),
I guess I'm not surprised, but might there be any way of implementing my idea without error? It would be a dramatic effect I haven't seen used before.
Rat.code
#3716 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/18 19:22:14
I made the rat.qc partly by observing the progs.dat from Malice, partly myself.
Just went on untill friqqc did.'t give errors.
Then Necros helped me with a part.
The model just sinks in the groundbrush, like
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat00...
I first thought the rat.mdl wasn't well placed.
But I think it has something to do with the rat.qc
It also has a bite function, but apparently something in the rat.qc went wrong.
I placed it as a file, maybe somebody can take a look at it?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat00...
thanks.
Phait
#3717 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.218] on 2005/06/19 03:09:47
You can't have more than four light styles (including ambient) on each face. Too many switchable lights in one area saturates this very quickly.
Also...
#3718 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/06/19 03:47:46
brighter lights reach farther, so they are more likely to overlap.
Just An Idea...
#3719 posted by Tron [202.7.183.132] on 2005/06/19 06:40:39
Do you know any QC? If so it could be easier for you to simply make a new light style which is a single light which starts off bright and gradually fades.
No QC
#3720 posted by . [68.78.218.141] on 2005/06/19 08:26:09
I have a grasp of programmming syntax and stuff carried over from some PHP'ing, but I'm too weak-minded and impatient to really pursue any coding, even QC (as easy as they say it is)
Dodgy Rat
#3721 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/19 11:41:58
I have had a quick look at this rat problem and can see that no matter how you place the rat, he always 'lands' in the map with his paws 8 units below the surface.
I have compared the rat.qc with the dog.qc but cannot see anything obvious (yeah, OK, dogs are bigger than rats), so my question is - what determines the position of the lowest point of the model?
This line
setsize (self, '0 -8 -8', '08 08 16');
can adjust the position but I can only get the rat to 'land' lower. What is the realtionship between the two Z vector values? Also, is there a relationship between these figures and the '$origin' value?
Like MadFox, I am also trying to learn QC.
As always, any help you can give will be appreciated.
Ah, hold on. I have just "aligned" the ents.qc
/*QUAKED monster_rat (1 0 0) (-8 -8 -24) (8 8 40) Ambush
*/
the rat.qc entry
$origin 0 0 24
and the rat.qc entry
setsize (self, '-8 -8 -24', '08 08 40');
and the pretty little rat now sits on top of the floor correctly.
OK Madfox, all we've got to do now is figure out why the little bugger runs backwards and also why, when you shoot him, a corpse appears angled at 90 degrees and why the ghost of the rat continues to run backwards. But hey, we'll get there!!
They Come With Dozens
#3722 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/19 12:10:19
I just realized it had to do something with the placing of the rat.mdl
I lifted the rat.mdl with the Quark4.07 model editor, and now it is also on its feet!
I also turned all the frames 180 degrees, and now it is running good.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat01...
Great you found it that way Mike!
In the start rat.qc I changed
$frame squishb1
void() rat_stand1;
/*
==================================...
RAT CODE
into
$frame squishb1
void() rat_stand1;
void() rat_run1;
/*
==================================...
RAT CODE
You were right with the dog.qc
I was trying to compare something of the same origin. I know there were more tricks in the Malice convertion.
The rat could also jump and attack.
But I think that needs more knowhow of the Qc-options.
I always thought they just replaced the dog with the rat. But in Malice they come with dozens, without hitting the eddict-count!
Squeek
#3723 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/19 13:45:18
I tried your changes to the rat.qc, and you are right. Only I can't see the mouse walking.
But the model is then placed on the excact 0 grid of the ground brush.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat02...
I changed the rat.mdl in the download zip.
It now walks straight ahead, but there is always one I can't kill. Holy Mouse!
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat02...
Argh
#3724 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/19 13:49:18
double picture, the last one is ment
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat03...
for seeing the change in height.
Final Rat
#3725 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/20 19:05:25
I think the rat.qc is better now.
They can bite too, only sound gets stuck.
Just 12 mouses, but they're hard to fight.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat01...
Rats...
#3726 posted by necros [69.193.222.114] on 2005/06/20 23:29:22
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
MadFox
#3727 posted by Kinn [81.178.51.25] on 2005/06/21 00:27:59
Is the Malice QC source not available? I'm fairly sure that would be quite useful in this case :}
(I bet all the links to it would have gone dead years ago though :{ )
Cd Tracks
#3728 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/21 02:56:05
Can I rip the CD tracks from the Quake1 CD and save them onto my hard drive and get the music in-game or do I always have to have the CD in the drive? If so, how?
CD Tracks - Depends If You Like Darkplaces....
#3729 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/21 03:42:00
The more recent versions of darkplaces support replacement CD tracks for quake mods, by adding a file sound/cdtracks/trackxxx.wav or sound/cdtracks/trackxxx.ogg to your mod/base directory. xxx is the number of the track, so track004.wav would be the replacement for track 4.
However, if you
a) don't like darkplaces
b) don't like ogg
and/or
c) don't like huge .wav files that wipe out your disk space
then you're pretty much out of luck. I guess for the first one you could try to fiddle with the source code to add the relevant dpextention to your own favourite engine, but that's a lot of effort to save a bit of disk swapping.
Preach
#3730 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/21 05:11:59
Thanks for the info. I am happy with .ogg, also happy with huge .wav files (I have obscene amounts of HD space) but unfortunately, FQ is my engine of choice.
Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Good To Watch Your Cheese Bowl, Necros
#3731 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/21 07:30:15
I already search years ago for the Malice qstats. Only Rogue and Hipnotronics give their
SOA.qc and DOE.qc for free.
Could be illigaly of me distributing these rat.mdl! They belong to the Malice convertion,
which is: strictly commercial.
But I like to learn something from the qc programming. That's why I am glad I've got these rats running. I am searching for it a long time now.
Now I am so far I've got them running, there is one thing left.
When I use a Path_corner on them I get blacked out with a :
callo 1446 (?]
ai.qc : ai_run
rat.qc : rat_run1
monsters.qc walkmonster_start_go
(no function)
stack overflow
host error : program error
Music
#3732 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/06/21 18:49:56
lol, of course, just start winamp on the background while playing?
alt-tab to switch songs if fitzquake doesn't support the mp3 menu (don't remember, probably not).
Texture Problem
#3733 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/06/22 09:16:48
I have some problems with light textures in my level. The textures look in-game like on the below pictures. They look better after brightening nearly lights, but I don't want too much light there. I have converted this texture with Texmex from ikbaseq3.wad. Maybe I have done it wrong. What do you think?
http://republika.pl/quake_1/light....
http://republika.pl/quake_1/light_...
Fullbright Colours
#3734 posted by Tron [202.7.183.132] on 2005/06/22 09:44:03
The problem there seems to be that when you converted you used the full quake1 colour palette rather than using a palette which had the fullbright colours taken out.
I haven't used Texmex but have a look if it has a palette with a name suggesting it has no fullbright colours in it.
(In original software quake and later fixed versions of glquake, the last few colours in the Quake palette will always appear at full brightness regardless of the light level)
TexMex And Fullbrights
#3735 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/22 10:46:03
If it is a fullbrite issue then you can select the texture, right-click and choose Adjust Brightness, then click Remove Brites.
Don't forget to Save after you have finished adjusting the textures.
But
#3736 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/06/22 13:00:17
if you make light textures (like a lamp) you actually DO want to have the a single fullbright color patch in the place where the lamp glass is.
Water Lighting
#3737 posted by . [68.77.199.86] on 2005/06/22 13:21:10
This reminds me... is there any way to turn off the "always-bright" factor of water, so that your lights will light only particular areas of the water?
More QC Help Needed
#3738 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/22 13:39:10
I want to have certain monsters 'see' further. I know I can change their range in ai.qc but this then affects all monsters, which I do not want.
Can someone point me in the general direction of the best way to achieve this - ideally by setting a flag on the individual monsters. I may give them a slightly different skin so could use "if skin = 5 then monster can see further" inside the particular monster .qc.
I am not yet clear about the relationship between the monster's own .qc and the ai.qc where the ranging seems to take place.
These particular monsters are to be used as covering fire to pin the player down whilst other closer monsters gang up on him/her. Of course, the better players will survive, and will eventualy get close enough to kill-off the long range slayers. Think of it like snipers shooting from a long way off.
Any suggestions?
Bambuz
#3739 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/22 13:56:13
You have a valid point about fullbrights.
But I would note a conundrum about the use of fullbrights:
1. on light textures, fullbrights would spoil a switchable light as it would still be seen even when the light was off
2. many years ago (22Nov1998 to be precice, and some 35 years after the death of JFK, coincidence or what?) I incurred the wrath of Shambler (and him still a teenager) because I had used a fullbright texture on a shootable button. The button was in a dark area of the map but was clearly visible because of the fullbrights being used. Unless, of course, you were using GLQuake (and he was) in which case, fullbrights were not fullbright and therefore became effectively invisible.
So, I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Now, who do you think killed JFK?
#3740 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/22 15:45:34
Ankh:
To remove fullbrights from a Q1 texture in TexMex, go to View -> Preferences -> Workspace -> [Color Conversion] and uncheck Use Full Brites. Fullbright texels will be converted to other colors when the image is imported.
The Adjust Brightness -> Remove Brites function doesn't work properly afaik.
Phait:
No
Bambuz:
Not if you want a switchable light style associated with that texture e.g. turning the light off completely.
Mike:
Lee Harvey Oswald
Rangefinder
#3741 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/22 16:16:47
I have two solutions for you, one of which I have actually tested.
The tested way:
Find the line that reads
r = range (client);
in
float() FindTarget =
and replace it with
if (self.classname == "monster_ogre")
r = longrange (client);
else
r = range (client);
You can use any test in the if statement to decide which function to use. The next thing to do is find the range function and, suprisingly, duplicate it and rename the copy to longrange. You can then change the ranges as you desire. As you probably know from you experiments, the last value is probably the one to change. Altering RANGE_MELEE and RANGE_MID will change how the monster attacks and cause odd stuff, but might be desirable.
This method is good if you only want two classes of monster vision. If you have lots of monsters for the second type of vision, but don't want to have a big, slow if statement in
FindTarget like:
if (self.classname == "monster_ogre"|self.clas... == "monster_vore|self.classname == "monster_shambler...)
then add a line saying
self.lip = 1
on all the monsters that have this kind of vision, and check for self.lip in the added code.
(lip is a nice variable to use, as the original quake only uses it for lifts/doors. So you can use it on monsters without having to define a new variable, which wastes memory on every entity in the level)
If you want several monsters all with different vision, and you're sure that you only want to change the maximum viewing distance for each, there is another method. Don't make any of the changes in the first method. Instead, change the line in range from
if (r < 1000)
return RANGE_MID;
to
if (r < (1000 + self.lip))
return RANGE_MID;
Then set self.lip to how much further you want the monster to see, eg: self.lip = 500 would mean the monster sees you at 1500 units,
self.lip = -200 would mean it sees you at only 800 units away, not 1000.
You could have written
if (r < (self.lip))
return RANGE_MID;
Why do it the way I suggest above, and not this way? Because it means that you don't have to change anything for the rest of the monsters, self.lip defaults to 0 so they will default to a range of 1000. Be warned, a mapper could in fact set self.lip on the monsters that don't have a range specified, and it would be obeyed. To avoid this you can force self.lip = 0 in the spawn function of these monsters, but then you're back to lots of work modifying all the monsters.
Finally, note that no matter how negative you make self.lip you'll always have a spotting distance of 500 from RANGE_MID. You could complicate things by having RANGE_MID altered by self.lip in some way too, but this might cause odd behaviour. Since you're going for longer vision this probably doesn't matter, but you might want to consider it. Poke around in the AI.qc and fight.qc files to check what happens at RANGE_NEAR/RANGE_MID. You might find it useful to have these ranges extended somewhat, but probably not.
Excellent Preach
#3742 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.251] on 2005/06/22 20:47:22
I have seen many a QC tutorial with less debt than what you provided.
Preach
#3743 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/22 23:14:38
Thanks for this explanation - clear and concise. And you are right in that I do not want to affect the current monsters RANGE_NEAR and RANGE_MID settings. It's just the sniper effect that I'm after.
Kell: but what about the grassy knoll and the man seen running away. And what about the mafia who were clearly put-out by what JFK and his brother were doing? And what about the guy in Marseille? And what about Shambler, where was he at the time?
Fullbright Buttons
#3744 posted by Tron [202.7.183.132] on 2005/06/22 23:22:07
Mike: heh, I also incurred the wrath in my last speedmap because I did exactly the same thing with a fullbright button in a dark area. :)
Info On Fullbrights - Thanks
#3745 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/06/23 01:00:47
Hey. This helps a lot. Thank you all for such detailed information.
Kell & Ankh
#3746 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/23 01:05:53
I use TexMex 3.4 and unchecking Use Full Brites in Options doesn't work. I am not sure if it doesn't work at all or if it misses some conversions. However, doing the right-click thing I mentioned does work.
http://img299.echo.cx/img299/472/q...
http://img299.echo.cx/img299/88/qu...
http://img299.echo.cx/img299/120/q...
The first image is using Options with Use Full Brites checked. The second is with Use Full Brites unchecked. The third is Use Full Brites unchecked and then right-clicking on the texture and using Adjust Brightness/Remove Brites, which does the best job.
Images 1 and 2 are different, honest.
Fulbrights And Knave.wad - Some Testing
#3747 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/06/23 02:26:53
Yesterday I have done some tests with ktech_3 and ktech_4 textures from the knave.wad dedicated for quake1. There are always some fulbright pixels you can see in darkness. Don't know if it is intentional. I'm using Hammer,Joequake and aguirRe's tools.
http://republika.pl/quake_1/knavel...
http://republika.pl/quake_1/knavel...
Ankh
#3748 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/23 04:21:36
This is the same kind of thing as shown in my earlier post.
I have now cleared this particular texture of all fullbrights. You can see in the screenshot below that where the new texture is, the bright red pixels are gone - check the brick pier to the right of the shotgun (old version) and then the layer of bricks closest to the lava on the left of the shotgun(new version):-
http://img105.echo.cx/img105/3186/...
I exported the individual texture from TexMex as a .bmp file, opened it in Grafixer, and immediately saved it without doing anything else. Then imported it back into TexMex and saved the .wad file.
I only wanted to get a little bit of colour on the bricks that were next to the lava. The two courses of bricks above the lava are the coloured version (minus fullbrights) and the third course of bricks is the uncoloured version of the same texture - they're from DktE3.wad.
Not too long-winded once you know what to do.
You'll find Grafixer here:-
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/id...
Maybe someone knows any easier way?
Qc Help
#3749 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/23 06:51:00
Would you be so kind to look at my rat.qc and see why I can't lay a path_corner on them?
The download has the qc.script I tried sofar.
Could it be because it is an Add-on monster?
I've been looking all day, but I can't find the reason.
I finally got them ingame, but I can't see them jump, although I declared the options.
Also the damage impackt is far too high.
Rat From A Sinking Ship..
#3750 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/23 09:47:25
Yeah, sure, either e-mail it to me or post a link here and I'll have a poke around.
Grafixer
#3751 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/23 11:01:54
Just found a problem with Grafixer in that it only handles textures up to 320 x 200. Shame.
Fullbrights Re-visited
#3752 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.201.213] on 2005/06/23 11:57:55
I have a sense of deja-vu here so if this is repeating myself, sorry.
TexMex has a problem removing colour 255. So, if after doing the above routine you still have a single fullbright (fuscia) you will need something like Photoshop to highlight the offending pixel and change it to another non-fullbright colour.
It is straightforward although long-winded but I don't know how else to do it.
Hacky Way To Convert Textures
#3753 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/23 16:38:17
You can use QME(yeah, the modelling program) to eliminate fullbrights at a pinch. Dunno if I'd want to do it on a large batch of textures though. Load up any model and change the skin size to the size of the texture. Import the texture, and go to view -> skin palette map editor. Then uncheck the last two rows of colours, and click ok. Finally, export the skin again, and it's done.
You can also use this to exclude other colour ranges, if the conversion uses a row of colours that look odd, like the grey/greens on a grey patch. It's also very handy if you're making a quake player model, since you can fix the shirt/pants colours easily with it. But yeah, fullbrights is the most useful thing it'll do.
Great Preach!
#3754 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/23 20:25:11
I posted a link above with the download zip.
It has a map, Qc, Sound and progs.
You even could game with it by what I sofar gained. Some functions won't work, like the bite distance is to far, as the damage is.
But when I try to put on a path_corner on it the game ceased as I mentioned in post 3713.
Maybe because it is not a monster replacement, but an add-on.
Here is the link once more:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat01...
Basil The Rat(and A Few Further Things)
#3755 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/24 05:24:09
The fix is pretty simple, the explanation a bit more involved. What you want to do is find the following code:
void() rat_run1 =[ $run1, rat_run2 ] {
if (random() < 0.2)
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "rat/eep1.wav", 1, ATTN_IDLE); ai_run(8);};
void() rat_run2 =[ $run2, rat_run3 ] {ai_run(8);};
and edit it to this:
void() rat_run1 =[ $run1, rat_run2 ] {
if (random() < 0.2)
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "rat/eep1.wav", 1, ATTN_IDLE); ai_walk(8);};
void() rat_run2 =[ $run2, rat_run3 ] {ai_walk(8);};
Why? Well, although these functions are called rat_run1 and rat_run2, they are actually the WALKING frames for the rat. You can see this by looking at
self.th_walk = rat_run1;
in the definition of monster_rat. And why does it matter? Well, ai_run assumes that the monster has a target, and so you get problems when that isn't the case. ai_walk is built for just one thing, and that's following path_corners.
A few other things that you might wanna look at which I noticed while testing. One is the hitbox you use. It's narrower than it is long, which would be a good fit for the model, except that hitboxes in quake don't rotate with the model. So it's always facing the same way, which makes it harder or easier to kill the rat depending on which direction you attack it from. It's hard to explain, but easy to see, get the latest fitzquake and set r_showboxes to 1, and then look at some rats with god or notarget, especially ones who are patrolling. The fix would be to set the size to something like
setsize (self, '-8 -8 -8', '8 8 16');
A further thing, the gibbing death you have in there is bugged. If you do enough damage to gib the rat, the gib gets thrown, but the rat doesn't get removed. So you get an invulnerable rat that continues attacking. Use ThrowHead instead of ThrowGib - ThrowGib creates a new entity for the gib, ThrowHead turns the monster into the gib. Or you might wanna just remove gibbing, it'd probably look better.
Finally, when your models are dying normally, not gibbed, they remain solid. Usually it's best to have make them non solid, change the last death frame to do that.
I wrote the above two paragraphs, then decided to try and test it. Looking more carefully, the whole death sequence is quite buggy. You have a loop where rat_die calls rat_die1, which calls rat_die again. This is why you get that repeated clicking sound from all the dead bodies. Rather than detail all the little fixes, here's what it should look like
void() rat_die1 =[ $squish1, rat_die1 ] {self.solid = SOLID_NOT;};
void() rat_die2 =[ $squishb1, rat_die2 ] {self.solid = SOLID_NOT;};
void() rat_die =
{
// check for gib
if (self.health < -15)
{
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "rat/squish.wav", 1, ATTN_NORM);
ThrowHead ("progs/h_gib1.mdl", self.health);
return;
}
//regular death
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "rat/squish.wav", 1, ATTN_NORM);
if (random() > 0.5)
rat_die2 ();
else
rat_die1 ();
};
Notice which functions are calling which other functions, rat_die calls one of the two frames, rat_die1 or rat_die2. The frames do not call rat_die again, they call themselves, because the monster no longer needs to animate - it's dead.
One tip for people in general, with a word of warning. If you want to test a new monster quickly without having to create a new level, you can cheat and have it replace an existing monster in all levels. To replace grunts with rats, comment out all the code in monster_army(), and add
self.classname = "monster_rat";
monster_rat();
after the comment. The classname is very important, as if you don't do that the rats will be going around with monster_army as their classname. Some of the quake monsters have hacks in the AI based on their classname(knights are a good example of this), and so you might get odd behaviour that wouldn't occur with a custom map with rats in. It took me months to figure where that bug came from first time I met it...
Wow...
#3756 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/24 08:15:36
Thank you very much, Preach for your brilliant explanation of the qc periphericals!
I was looking to it so long now it realy became acracadabra to me.
I had changed something in the RatJumpTouch and then all my rats became earthbound, before they squished to the wall. Some of them kept flying at the skybrush.
It gave me the idea to make bats of them.
Now they're ok, and I can use them with a path_corner. I am very thankfull to you.
Last bugging question of me. How do I cange their damage. I changed ai_charge in the void rat_bite , but it doesn't change a thing.
Damage Dealing
#3757 posted by Preach [131.111.249.211] on 2005/06/24 10:10:15
The lines that do damage are
ldmg = (random() + random() + random()) * 8;
T_Damage (self.enemy, self, self, ldmg);
in rat_bite and much less frequently
ldmg = 10 + 10*random();
T_Damage (other, self, self, ldmg);
in Rat_JumpTouch. Since random produces a number between 0 and 1, the first expression can produce anything from 0 to 24 damage, but is much more likely to lie close to the centre, about 12 damage. The second is uniformly distributed between 10 and 20 damage. Reducing the numbers here is probably wise. You might also want to reduce the attack range, which is set at 100 in rat_bite in:
if (vlen(delta) > 100)
Because this range is measured between the origin of the player and the rat, you can make it smaller than, say, the same range for a knight, as the rat can get closer to the player with it'ssmaller bounding box. 70/80 would probably be good.
Terrain Mapping
#3758 posted by Ionous_at_work [65.115.47.2] on 2005/06/24 13:57:42
Originally i had tried to just use straight vertex manipulation. This looked fine in-editor, but everything was hopelessly broken in-game. I then tried cutting my base structures into triangles before doing my vertex manipulation thing, and it ended up looking decent in-game.
Is this the right way to do it, or am i setting myself up for worse problems down the road?
Tris
#3759 posted by . [68.77.196.215] on 2005/06/24 14:14:33
While time consuming, tris are the way to go.
Thankx
#3760 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/24 19:03:37
Thanks again Preach.
You helped me with a thing I was crunching for years with. So glad I found it yet!
Replacing monsters was a tough job, adding even more.
It helped me with understanding a little more
of the qc scripting, which in my opinion still
has something of pure magic.
Clipping Hulls
#3761 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.63] on 2005/06/25 19:40:37
Is there any engine out there yet that lets you view the different hulls or is the "-hull #" option of aguire's qbsp the only option available?
CyBeAr
#3762 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2005/06/25 19:48:45
http://disenchant.net/engine.html
(Only implemented in the GL version)
Thanks Tyrann
#3763 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.63] on 2005/06/25 22:12:17
I really miss fitzquake/q3 style movment in noclip mode though and I think the hulls would be better displayed as some kind of wireframe or semi-transparent representation. Shouldn't complain though since it is very usefull even as it is.
Now that I've seen the ones I felt and some additiional ones I just have to figure out how to get rid of the evil clipping problems...
Mousetrap
#3764 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/26 21:29:14
Glad my attempt, adding a monster, succeeded.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rat02...
Hickory, Dickory, Dock...
#3765 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/06/27 00:08:33
Two things:-
1) the trap operates on its own once you have triggered it for the first time - about every 12 seconds. Is this intentional?
2) Huston, we have a dead mouse flying.
http://img296.echo.cx/img296/2507/...
I shot this mouse and he flew up in the air and stayed there?
Other than that, they are good, nuisance monsters like spiders and vorlings.
Fidler Of Hameln
#3766 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/06/27 10:49:25
While the Quake engine can't collaps objects (in stead of the Custent) I made the trap like a func_train.
My idea was to hurt the rats, but as they have no pain-frames in it, that won't work.
The flying mouse you see, is one that has fallen on the trap itself. It isn't flying.
Took me some time to make them fall on ground the same way, as the h_gib1.mdl frame and the squish-frame in the rat.mdl aren't in the same position.
ThrowHead function make them land lower, reason why they just disapear.
Would like to make them jump and retreat.
Q1 Console Gfx
#3767 posted by . [68.77.198.100] on 2005/06/27 18:30:42
I looked inside GFX.wad and also the GFX folder of the PAK's and can't seem to find the big console graphic. Where be it? I saw one .LMP that might be it, but QPED said it wasn't viewable.
It's Called
#3768 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.249] on 2005/06/28 02:27:01
conback.lmp and used to have a limit of about 64k in size, but some paks use larger and might cause some engines/tools to fail (or even crash) to load it. Carved in Flesh is such a pak.
Thought So
#3769 posted by . [68.77.198.100] on 2005/06/28 02:47:38
I found a tool called Adquedit and was able to extract it. So I'll have to keep it under 64k then? The original file is 55.9 KB.
If You Want
#3770 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.161] on 2005/06/28 04:00:22
to avoid weird behaviour or even crashes in standard engines, you should keep it beneath 64k. There are also similar restrictions on skins and other texes (at least in GL-engines), but the limit is higher then.
In my next engine versions, I've added warnings when exceeding normal limits.
Mini Chthon
#3771 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/06/28 14:03:21
I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction...
I remember seeing a mod where Chthon had been shrunk somewhat and could be killed with ordinary weapons. I am not sure if it was part of a larger map or was just an example map showing the mod.
I remember that there were two of these in little lava pools each side of a very small room and you could duck in and out of the room (it may have had a doorway at each end of the room) and lob grenades at them. The room was probably 1024 x 512, or at least that kind of proportion
I've Googled, Copernicked and even Asked Jeeves but only get referred to Chthon10 or Chthon! neither of which are what I am after.
Ring any bells with anyone?
#3772 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/06/28 14:06:44
The mini-chthons in little lava tanks appeared in Mish Pak 2: DoE iirc
Roger Bannister Eat Your Heart Out...
#3773 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/06/28 14:42:43
Bugger me Kell, bit quicker next time please:-)
Thanks. However... I never bought DOE, so if that was it, it must have been released to the public OR someone used it in a map.
I have a lot of lava in my current map and thought that it could be a useful extra monster type?
Mike
#3774 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.199] on 2005/06/28 15:45:36
You can get the DoE QC source here: http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/i... .
And the DoE map Kell refers to is probably Elemental Fury II (r2m3).
Ogro Textures?
#3775 posted by hajas [200.164.130.129] on 2005/06/28 16:38:26
Hello, It's my first post here... :)
I'm looking for the pak (zip) with all Ogro's textures but I can't find anymore. :(
the file on his site is down and I still don't had lucky.
can someone help me?
thanks,
Freddy
Ogro Textures
#3776 posted by VoreLord [144.137.186.230] on 2005/06/28 18:34:52
Hope these are what you are looking for?
Try here
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
tip
If you find files on PQ/fileplanet that seem to be missing/404. just add the following before the filename path,
fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?
for eg, the following link
http://www.planetquake.com/dl/dl.a...
would become
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
(func_msgboard will screw up the above example, but you should get the idea, hope so any way}
Not guaranteed to work on all occassions, but will for a lot.
You Can Still...
#3777 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/06/28 18:36:21
hover over the links to see what vorelord is talking about, though.
And For The Life Of Me
#3778 posted by VoreLord [144.137.186.230] on 2005/06/28 19:04:06
I don't know how I came to use 2 totally unrelated links in my example above, but I did, it of course should be,
tip
If you find files on PQ/fileplanet that seem to be missing/404. just add the following before the filename path,
fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?
for eg, the following link
http://www.planetquake.com/dl/dl.a...
would become
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
// I'm going to go and have a lie down now
Antilight Question
#3779 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/06/29 00:48:24
I'm not yet really used with antilight use, so I would like to have a little bit informations.
I just would like to have confirmation that antilights are only lights with a negative value, or if there is something more in their description (additional field, etc...)
I also noticed that antilights didn't have effects on worldspawn minlight value, i.e it is impossible to have a zero light (like full dark) area around antilights... or do I missed something ?
Thanks in advance...
Jpl
#3780 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2005/06/29 01:00:31
antilight have the same keys as usual light, i.e. wait, etc (if u use aguirres light). and if i remember right it affects minlight turning everything to pitch black.
Vondur
#3781 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/06/29 01:30:56
Well, so it seems I set antilight fields correctly (i.e negative value, wait, delay, etc...) Maybe I need further tries to find the good use with the good effect..
Thank you Von'
Jpl
#3782 posted by Vondur [195.128.95.36] on 2005/06/29 01:34:04
the only good use is to black out abysses like in numb nimbus level by czg.
Vondur
#3783 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/06/29 01:43:11
I would not like to be so "radical" ;)
JPL
#3784 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.128] on 2005/06/29 03:04:13
Antilights works basically like normal lights with all extra keys. But it can only affect light with the same style, e.g. you can't darken a flickering light with normal light (style 0). Also, you can't use antilight as ambient light, e.g. minlight.
In TyrLite (which I think you use) there are some other possibilities, e.g. you must add the option -nominlimit to make antilight force levels beneath ambient minlight.
Check readmes for more details.
AguirRe
#3785 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/06/29 04:40:10
Thanks for the information, I will try it this evening: I now suppose this option was missing in my light process.. ;)
Need Pointing In The Right Direction Again...
#3786 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/01 09:44:09
/*QUAKED misc_fireball (0 .5 .8) (-8 -8 -8) (8 8 8)
Am I right in thinking that the second and third group in the above are the dimensional off-set from the origin of the entity based on the size of the model and that the bounding-box is therefore 16x16x16?
If not, what are they?
If my assumption is correct, is this how the entities origin is determined i.e. I could redifine the entities origin by altering the parameters to (say) (-8 -8 -12) (8 8 4) to have my origin higher up the model but still within a 16x16x16 bounding-box.
What is the first group relating to?
I have Googled but cannot find a decent definition of this anywhere (14000 entries offered, a couple of dozen checked, and then I thought that I would use my favourite search engine:-)
Color Min Max
#3787 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/01 10:08:55
These are all just fields to tell the QuakEd editor about the entity.
First group specifies it's color, the two following specifies the minimum and maximum bounds of the entity relative to it's origin.
This is just for the editor though, it won't have any effect on the actual in-game entity.
If you change the bounds, the box in the editor will appear to change, but the origin will still be in the same place. (Unless you move the entity, obviously, to acommodate for the change in the box.)
Czg
#3788 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/01 13:02:01
Thanks. A couple more questions:
How does the Colour Group work - what are the three values telling the editor?
Also, if the other groups are there to tell the editor about the entity, how/where/why is the origin of an entity determined? I can see that the editor 'knows' the origin and passes this detail to the compile routines via the .map file, but this is only calculated from the *Quaked definition. So, is the origin only determined by the entry in the *Quaked definition and can I therefore change the origin simply by changing that definition?
I haven't a clue why I would want to do that but i am trying to understand the relationships between the editor and .map files, the .bsp file, the progs.dat and the engine.
Mike:
#3789 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/07/01 13:14:32
if you change the Mins and Maxs in qc, it would affect the collision of the entity against other entities, but not the model positioning (which is always centered on the origin, rather than centered in the bounding box. Back to the collision thing, it will affect its collision against other entities, but the collision against the world will always use one of three hard-coded sizes: zero-sized (0 0 0)(0 0 0), player-sized (-16 -16 --24)(16 16 32), or shambler-sized (-32 -32 -24)(32 32 64).
Metlslime
#3790 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/01 14:18:30
Thanks for the explanation.
Is the world collision detection routine run three times, one for each of the hard-coded sizes, or does each entity have one of those fixed sizes 'allocated' to it somehow? (Of course, I don't actually know how collision detection is carried out as the game progresses - is it only after (or perhaps just before) each individual entity movement, or cyclical on every entity all the time or ???)
These questions have come to the fore because I have a model but no *Quaked definition. By trial and error I have created a bounding box and can fit it the map OK but do not know how to decide the origin for the entity: should I just use player-size or shambler-size according to the size of the model or is it a bit more complex than that? It is only a static model at present but if I ever get the hang of animation, it could become a 'monster'.
I notice that the Bounds dimensions shown for standard Quake models in QME 3.1 never match the *Quaked definitions - what am I missing?
Metlslime, do you map or do you just stick to programming?
Mmmm, a lot of questions again. Hopefully there are others who are as novice as I am and will learn from the answers as well.
Mike
#3791 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/01 15:34:59
I can't answer you're more technical questions, but I can shed some light.
should I just use player-size or shambler-size according to the size of the model or is it a bit more complex than that?
In my earlier reply about the narrow beam, I was not entirely accurate when describing the player bbox. In fact, the player and monsters don't have a bounding box, they're just point entities that collide with the 'expanded into the map' hulls 1 or 2, which creates the illusion that they are in fact boxes.
This mechanism vastly simplifies the amount of information calculated for collision. The ( acceptable ) trade off is slightly longer compile times and larger file size of finished maps.
The other limitation however is that you can only have moving entities ( i.e. players and monsters ) that are the size associated with the collision hulls. In Q1 there are only two sizes: player and shambler. ( HL1 had more collision hulls afaik, allowing for a greater variety of monster sizes )
From my experience working with necros on monster creation, I believe that it's possible to specify the weapon collision box for a monster, which needn't be the same as the architectural hull1/2 box size. In the case of the vermis for example, because it doesn't move from it's location it only has one very wide and very tall box for calculating weapon hits, but no box specified for either hull 1 or 2.
For a regular monster that moves about and will bump into walls and stuff, you got player/knight/scrag size and ogre/fiend/shambler size. That's it.
I notice that the Bounds dimensions shown for standard Quake models in QME 3.1 never match the *Quaked definitions - what am I missing?
The information shown for model entity properties is not for collision, it's simply the maximum and minimum extents that the verts of the model occupy in any given frame and also over the course of all frames throughout its animations.
This is relevant because of the way the Q1 .mdl format saves the location of verts. Unfortunately, it is ( as Kinn helped me to crudely understand ) sort of a case of mdl being, like the Quake color palette, limited to 256. That is to say, the farthest distance apart the verts reach in any single animation frame is used to define the 'grid' into which all the other verts in all the other frames will be fitted. The max/min extents are divided into 256.
So for example, a monster with an insecty proboscis that it can shoot out of its mouth at the player a long way is going to have its front to back 'grid' stretched out because of the distance of the verts in that one animation frame. As a result, the rest of the verts will have to be fitted into the nearest grid locations along that length, giving rise to visible innaccuracies. In-game, this makes the verts wobble about a bit - it's called 'vert dancing' or the 'jello effect' for obvious and rather regrettable reasons.
Generally, the exact numbers are not of interest when modelling in .mdl format. Just try to keep the verts of your monster within a fairly defined space - don't have it reaching out to far in any direction in any frame. The more detailed the model - the finer the grain of the verts you've placed - the more of a problem vert dancing will become.
Metlslime, do you map or do you just stick to programming?
Metl has for some time been one of our community's illustrious professional devs. He used to map for Q1 and Q2. His first map was The Crawling Chaos, a nice bit of stygian horror. His most memorable map for Q1 was Rubicon, for which he also created a competition winning (?) texture set, still used for Q1 maps. One of the best base texture wads evar.
Rumours of Rubicon 2 are not baseless, but apocryphal or at least wildy innacurate.
He is a supremely talented bloke in all areas of game design, though he also suffers from an inexplicable aversion to bees.
HTH
Bzzzzzz
#3792 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/07/01 17:00:48
Yeah i map, but i have a lot less time for it at home now that i do it as a profession. Since my homepage has been taken down temporarily, the only place to see screenshots and stuff is my portfolio, here:
http://www.celephais.net/cv/portfo...
Um and to answer your question, the choice of which of the three sizes to use for world collision (point-size, player-size, shambler-size) is based on the bounding box you specify in quakec. I don't know for sure if it rounds down, rounds up, or picks the closest of the three sizes.
Setting Sounds
#3793 posted by . [68.74.217.66] on 2005/07/02 06:26:08
I'm aware that you can set sounds by putting in a number in the entity's sound field (by turning off SmartEdit in Worldcraft, the name of the actual sound is referred numerically).
I'm basically looking for a list of available sounds and their corresponding numbers -- since I only get about 4 or 5 *named* sounds to choose from (or just 1, for func_train).
Kell, Metlslime
#3794 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/02 07:47:45
Thanks for all the pointers.
And here's a little story just to make all of those of you who know about these things smile knowingly: I just drifted around my MIP (map in progress) with r_showbboxes on to see what I could see, and came across a bbox where I knew there shouldn't be one. I thought it must be something I accidentaly duplicated and must be hidded in the brushwork.
So, into the editor and sniff around, moving brushes backwards, forwards, up and down, but no, I can't see anything. Back into the game and look again, and it's still there. I line it up in each plane and reference it to the nearest piece of architecture which, because it was a brick wall, enabled me to work out exactly where it should be in the map.
Back into the editor and I still can't see it. I then think that I will need to look in the .map file and look at the bboxes co-ordinates based on my lining it up in-game.
You're already there aren't you? Yes, it's 0,0,0. Oh, ha ha ha; how I laughed. Mmmm.
Still, that was a good way to waste a quarter of an hour whilst waiting to see if the Lions were going to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Fat chance - they didn't.
Tex Scaling
#3795 posted by . [68.74.217.66] on 2005/07/03 02:42:55
I read its a good idea to scale distant textures as in terrain textures, by 2x - so that there is um... less lightmap... er, whatever. Efficiency.
But is there any drawback to this? I know if you scale DOWN textures it's not a good idea for the engine, if done in large.
Q1 Model Frames
#3796 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.216] on 2005/07/03 05:57:53
Can someone please explain a bit regarding Q1 model frames? I've noticed that pretty many paks seem to have problems with these; you'll get warnings about no such frame ....
I've tried using QuArK and repair the mdl files by just c'n'p frames, just like I do with missing skins and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The alleged missing frames are often way higher than the actual # frames in the mdl file.
I've managed to see that there seem to be at least two frame variants; single series frames and frame groups. This can often be seen in the mdl file as either one steady series of frame names (e.g. flame0-6) or several series which I assume are the frame group ones (e.g. fire0-6, firebig0-9).
The requested (and alledgely missing) frame in the engine seems reasonable when dealing with single series frames; then it's just a matter of c'n'p one or more frames to satisfy the request.
But when dealing with frame groups, the requested frame seems to be interpreted by the engine as the frame group and usually they're just a few.
If e.g. there was a request for frame 7 in the above frame group example, the engine will check against the # frame groups (here 2), warn about the missing frame, change it into group 0 and then proceed to render it (I assume the first frame of this group).
Is it possible that the requested frame should, at least when it's missing, instead be calculated from all of the frames in the mdl regardless of group, i.e. use the frame firebig0 as it's the eighth frame (index 7)? Does QC actually know about the frame groups?
And what are the poses, that seem to be some sublevel of frames?
Model Frames And How QC Sees Them
#3797 posted by Preach [81.154.30.12] on 2005/07/03 07:30:39
There are indeed two types of frame, grouped and non grouped. From the point of view of the QC, all of the frames in a framegroup count as one frame. Once this frame is set, the animation is out of the hands of the QC, it just plays at the speed set in the model until the QC sets a different frame.
As to whether the QC knows about the framegroups, the answer is maybe : - ). There are two ways to specify frames in QC. The first and simplest is by index, setting the frame of an entity to 5 will call the frame with index 5. This can be useful for cycling through an animation, by setting frame = frame + 1 at the right rate, for example in player.qc.
The second way is to use the frame names, but this only works some of the time. The QC files doubled up as control files for the model compiling tool ID wrote. If you look at the top of, say, ogre.qc you can see a load of lines about $origin and $base and $frame. All of this was information just for the model compiler, so altering it won't change anything if you recompile the QC files.
The use of it for the QC is the list of framenames. In ogre.qc, if you write self.frame = $stand1, the compiler will look up which index corresponds with $stand1 in the model header section, and replace $stand1 with the correct number. This is largely a readibility thing, but it also has the benefit that you cannot call a frame that does not exist, assuming the model you're using matches the frames in the header. If you tried to call $stand27, you'd get a compiler error.
The difficulty with calling the framenames is that different models often have the same names for frames, and rarely have the same index for that frame. The solution is that the framenames are only valid in the QC file that they are defined in. Since this would require a new QC file for each model you want to do this on, it's only really used for monsters and players. Most of the simple models are all defined together in models.qc, and any animation that they use is done directly with the frame indexes.
Which I'm afraid to say means I'm at a loss on how you'd call a framegroup using the framenames method in QC, as the only models ID made with framegroups are the torches, and they are defined in models.qc but coded for in misc.qc. Maybe I'll have an experiment and get back to you.
I was also under the impression that when you called the frames with numbers, all the numbers acted modulo the maximum frame index, so if the model had 6 frames, frame 6 would call frame 0, #7 called frame 1 again, and so on.
I now remember why I though this was how it worked - because of a server side mod I saw with optional client side models. The mod added lots of weapons to deathmatch, like pressing 4 twice gave you a flamethrower, that kind of thing. The trick was, if the nailgun v_model used frames 0-8, the flamethrower would use 9-17, and the next weapon 18-26. Then the client side models you could download would have a different model showing for those frames on the v_model. If you had the model pack, you'd see a different model for each weapon, but if you connected to the server without the pack you'd just see the nailgun each time, but it would still animate.
Do you have any examples of the paks that are causing these errors? I might be more helpful with a specific example than in general. It's possible that QuArK isn't reading the framegroups right, since it's designed to work with lots of model formats. Qme might be better for fixing those models.
Also, I've never heard of poses, unless it's the same as the base frame, used to generate the two sided planar map for the skin. Can't help you there...
Bats
#3798 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/07/03 09:34:22
Hey Metlslime, is that realy the Floyd model in post #3792? Didn't knew it already excisted.
Here some screenies of my last model. Rather a heavy weight: 397 vertices - 1076 triangles.
Hard to find the vertices get messed by transposing them by dxf!
Only marginal textured.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/fitz0...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/fitz0...
Preach
#3799 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.228] on 2005/07/03 10:06:29
Thanks for the elaborate reply. From your answer, it seems as if there's no need to access specific frames within a frame group. This might explain why the engine uses the same parameter for either a specific frame in a single series variant or a specific group in a group variant. This seems to indicate that the current engine logic is still valid also for frame groups, so the real error is in fact the QC request (which anyway is the prime suspect).
I forgot before to ask about the frame names, but you brought it up anyway. As you say, the mdl frame names seem arbitrary and don't affect anything in the engine. This matches what I've seen in the code; the names are not used for identification, only the frame/group numbers are important. And the names used in QC source are only used there (i.e. by qcc).
I also know that QuArK is not the best tool here, but it has been sufficient before when repairing skins. As far as I can see, there's no indication at all in QuArK for the actual frame grouping, so I don't know if/how it reads/writes this info. At least it hasn't generated any obviously bad mdl files so far. Maybe it's using the names to generate grouping?
As for paks with these errors well, there are quite a few. The most recent one is the Chapters pak. Enable cvar developer 1 (should always be enabled when troubleshooting and IMO otherwise too) and load the map shamblertest. You will immediately get warnings from basically any engine with more or less helpful info.
With my current GLQuake beta, I get the warning R_SetupAliasFrame: no such frame 159 ('stand1', 94 frames) in progs/shambler.mdl. This tells me that it's a single series frame and requested frame index is way beyond the # frames available (94) in the shambler mdl.
Why such an excessive index is requested from QC, I don't know. A vague theory is that the shambler mdl is somehow mixed up with the drole (which has many more frames) and/or there's something fishy with the last teleporting shambler in this test map. It doesn't seem to happen in the actual pak maps so it's not a big problem here, just puzzling.
Otherwise, the pak I'm trying to fix right now is the old Abyss of Pandemonium. There are many problems here; get all weapons and try the new ones (6-9) out. You'll find that with at least three of them, there are frame errors. Use my latest engine to track models. There are also errors when breaking a glass window in aop1m4 to get a quad and when killing the Blud monster in aop1m6. Not to mention demos being royally screwed up ...
If you need more examples, just let me know.
The poses I mentioned before are variable names (firstpose, numposes) in the mdl/frame objects which I think are related to the modulo operation you mentioned; they're used together with a frame time interval. It's a bit confusing with the naming convention here; group vs frame vs pose ...
Aguirre
#3800 posted by metlslime [67.124.109.90] on 2005/07/03 23:08:34
I noticed a complimentary problem in the Xmen TC, with the quakec calling skin numbers that don't exist. In glquake this caused a white skin IIRC, but in software quake it just stayed on whatever previous skin it was using. I believe i changed fitzquake to emulate software quake in this case, except with a warning message.
Madfox:
#3801 posted by metlslime [67.124.109.90] on 2005/07/03 23:12:34
Yeah, that's Floyd. He's already animated, walks around, shoots people, and dies. I regret not modelling the gun muzzles, but at this point i am loathe to touch qME again after using real modelling tools. So i'll probably use him as is.
Metl
#3802 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.251] on 2005/07/04 03:38:16
Yes, the original GLQ had bad handling of missing skins; it displayed them in some psychedelic colours. I also just copied WQ handling (reset skin to 0) and added a warning. A lot of paks have skin problems too, e.g. the original Source of Power.
Often the pak author added new skins to the main mdl, but completely forgot about the corresponding h_* mdl (gibbed head). Gibbing a Custents' baby shambler could e.g. cause an engine crash.
Trigger_multiple
#3803 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/04 07:53:17
Is there a way to make a trigger_multiple be triggerable by monsters?
#3804 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/04 08:26:18
If you mean 'by walking into it' then no, not in default id progs. Only by monster death -> target -> targetname.
With custom qc, probably. Monsters certainly can use trigger_teleports, so presumably a custom trigger can be created that allows monsters to affect it. Preach would be able to answer that question.
Phait Re: Tex Scaling
#3805 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/04 08:40:28
Overscaling textures does not, in my experience and as far as I know, have any negative effects on either the map or the engine. It's purely a matter of aesthetics.
Dag
#3806 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/04 09:44:16
I have a door that, for various reasons, needs to be triggered by a custom-sized trigger_multiple. It looks strange when monsters can't open it, but other strange things happen if it's opened like a normal door.
Oh well, I guess I'll live with it one way or the other.
Finger On The Trigger_multiple
#3807 posted by Preach [81.154.30.12] on 2005/07/04 09:47:19
If you want to use custom QC, it's a pretty easy fix. The function you want is
void() multi_touch
in triggers.qc, and you'll spot right at the start the function says
{
if (other.classname != "player")
return;
This, of course, locks out anything that isn't a player, so we want to change that. If you want it so that every trigger_multiple can be affected by every monster on the map, you could replace that line with
{
if (other.classname != "player" && !(other.flags & FL_MONSTER))
return;
If you don't want a global change, just the option to toggle it, then you'll want to do this.
{
if (other.classname != "player" && (!(other.flags & FL_MONSTER)||(self.style == 0)))
return;
Then set the style of the triggers you want to be monster usable to 1, and leave the others with style 0.
Preach
#3808 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/04 10:59:07
Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, I would really prefer to stick with default Quake progs. Thanks anyway, though. :)
Yay...
#3809 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/07/04 21:26:17
...finally tracked him down http://www.planetquake.com/gg/fmp/...
Levitating Monster?
#3810 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/06 01:54:03
Is there any such QC I might be able to implement to levitate a monster?
I figured I could take a crucified zombie and have it follow path_corner - but it didn't move. I figured I could place a func_door, plat or train beneath it and it'd push the zombie up -- nope.
My only other option is to make the zombie out of brushes and apply it's texture, then make that a func_whatever - which I'm going to try.
Floating Monsters
#3811 posted by Preach [81.154.30.12] on 2005/07/06 02:53:06
How active do you need the monster to be? If it's just a matter of having a crucified zombie follow a path/float up and down a bit, that's quite simple. If you want to make a monster that works completely, attacks and dies and stuff, while levitating, that's a much bigger change(you'd probably have to make it a full blown flyer like a scrag is).
Floating Zombie
#3812 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/06 02:58:52
Just a simple levitation - 2 paths for it to rise up and down to "hover" from, and a speed I can set.
"Error 40: Portal Not Bounding Leaf"
#3813 posted by Jago [85.76.178.7] on 2005/07/08 19:05:21
I am having some problem with my map, qbsp.exe crashes with an "Error 40: Portal not bounding leaf" error. What could be causing this?
I Don't Think
#3814 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.200] on 2005/07/09 03:00:34
I've ever seen that error before. It happens during generation of the prt file.
Please send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see if I can at least add more info to the message.
QME Full
#3815 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.200] on 2005/07/09 03:03:28
Does anyone have a working link to this? The previously mentioned Edgefile link doesn't seem to work (Invalid URL request).
AguirRe
#3816 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/09 03:28:03
Try this:-
http://www.xs4all.nl/~renep/quakem...
The .zip has a patch file to take the Lite version to the retail 3.1 version. I have this and there is no restriction on the number of frames it can handle.
It is now free, not warez.
Thanks
#3817 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.42] on 2005/07/09 04:51:20
I already tried that file, but it didn't seem to work with the Lite version. However, I finally managed to find the full 3.0 via Google's cache of Edgefile. Now I could patch the 3.0 to 3.1 and all seems good.
RE:
#3818 posted by Jago [85.76.178.7] on 2005/07/09 06:17:31
Weird, I have removed some complex structures and the error vanished.
Trigger A Trigger
#3819 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/10 07:06:17
I have a platform that won't be useable until the power is turned on to full. It's actually a func_door, and I have a trigger_once inside the plat cage that will start the plat only when the player is inside it.
I was wondering if theres anyway to, once the power is on (a func_button or something) - it will make that trigger_once valid - but until then, it wouldn't work.
Otherwise I'll just have to make a func_door in front of the plat that will be open once the power is turned on.
So...
#3820 posted by wrath [213.112.29.135] on 2005/07/10 07:56:03
what bsp, light and vis compilers are the beautiful people using nowadays?
Wrath
#3821 posted by Jago [85.76.178.7] on 2005/07/10 08:30:15
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Compile utilities from Aguire aka Bengt Jardrup.
Jago
#3822 posted by wrath [213.112.29.135] on 2005/07/10 09:04:52
muchas gracias. may your camel never stumble or fall.
Other Things
#3823 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/10 09:07:52
I've been searching around a few editing sites and can't find the answer.
1.) -- How do you switch a texture upon trigger? I have a set of lights that turn off, one by one (player passes through several trigger_once brushes), I'd like the light fixture's texture to switch to the less-bright light texture, once that particular light is switched off.
2.) -- Where/how might you edit the end episode text, or add such a thing to the last of a set of maps?
#3824 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/10 09:22:26
1.) The brush with the texture you want to change must be a func_wall, the texture name must start with +#, where # is either a number or a letter. The texture will animate in sequence of the numbers/letters, and when the entity it is applied to, it will toggle between animating the letter sequence, or the number sequence. In your example, you'd need a texture called +0light_whatever for the on texture, and +alight_whatever for the off texture. Put the +0.. texture on a func_wall, and target the func_wall to toggle the texture on/off.
2.) Changing the text must be done in the progs.dat. Check out client.qc line 162 and onwards. There are if/then/else statements for the various endlevels there that print out the text. You can add your own text there.
CZG
#3825 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/10 09:34:44
Thanks, works wonderfully.
Logic Gates And Powered Lifts
#3826 posted by Preach [217.44.22.235] on 2005/07/10 10:45:05
There is a way to have the lift inactive until you power it on with a button in standard quake, but it's the mother of all hacks. It involves constructing a 'logic gate', which is a trap_spikeshooter aimed at a trigger_multiple with health. In between there are a set of doors that block the shot when they are closed, and let it passed when open.
Toggling these doors open and firing the spikeshooter activates the trigger at the end. That description is a bit vague, but no matter, because I have an example map! Download it from http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter... , it shows how the logic gate works much better than my explanation could.
Try the lift before you press the button, then afterwards, to check it works right.
Also, I haven't forgotten about the floating zombie, but it's a little more involved than I thought. The func_plat uses the think functions to control it's movement, but monsters already hold the monopoly on think functions for their animations. It would be a simple hack added to the func_plat if you were willing to add an extra animation sequence to the zombie model, with the crucified animation in a framegroup - similar to the way torches animate even though they are static entities. Would that be a workable solution?
Sure
#3827 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/10 11:19:33
I don't mind mucking around with the zombie model as long as I know what I'm doing ;)
I figured you could take the ability of other monsters to follow paths, and apply it to the crucified zombie as well.
Also your logic gate idea is kinda clever and interesting. I pretty much understood it from how you wrote it, but I'll give the example a look.
Appreciate the help!
Wtfack
#3828 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/11 15:32:14
This is weird. I have a func_door with the name of plat1. I have a brush in front of it that is a gate, which is also a func_door with the name of gate1.
I have a trigger_once that is to trigger gate1 - which it does, but for some reason it triggers plat1 too!
NEVERMIND
#3829 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/11 15:35:11
Apparently you have to check DON'T LINK - if the 2 func_doors are right against eachother. I still don't know why they would let 2 funcs_ that meet, to trigger eachother.
It's Because Of
#3830 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/11 15:43:16
Doors linking together so you'll only need one key to open a set of double doors, and possibly other reasons too.
Phait
#3831 posted by megaman [213.6.36.132] on 2005/07/13 09:37:22
http://www.skore.de/Q3A_Electronic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit...
Hl Textures
#3832 posted by drew [205.206.88.29] on 2005/07/13 12:26:29
I'm messing around with HL textures in quake - I know some people will think thats sacrilige, but whatever...
Anyways, I have 2 questions
1) how could I darken the whole wad file in tex mex?
2) how do you get rid of the fullbright spots on some textures?
thanks alot.
AguirRe
#3833 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/13 12:28:36
Some questions for ya :)
1.) Fastvis -- if I use this in a map that doesn't have cavernous areas, but maybe a moderate corridor or 2, might any software Quake users have grey-out issues? Also, I read somewhere through here I believe you recommended somebody use the parameters -fast -level 4 -- is that right? Or is -level 4 actually -full?
2.) Faces... heres what my process window reads:
9801 faces
1607 brushes
219 entities
I am apparently near my limit of entities (255 or 256). Um but generally, I have little details in the map - like floor trim, and inset lights and such, which will contribute to any VIS concern, regarding too many faces (as I read brush count isn't really the issue). Basically I am wondering, when might I want to start worrying about too many faces?
3.) Light -gate 1 -- I've read changing the gate can help issues with too many dynamic lights in one area or proximity. I have several warnings of "Too many light styles on a face" which I could fix manually if it gets excessive... will this just print to the player's console, and not crash the engine (software)?
Overall I am trying to be a little considerate of software users, as few as their may be. When I release all this I'm recommending Fitzquake though.
Thanks!
Drew
#3834 posted by . [68.78.217.4] on 2005/07/13 12:31:49
2) how do you get rid of the fullbright spots on some textures?
thanks alot.
Select a texture, right click and choose "Brightness", then click "Remove Brites".
Phait
#3835 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.175] on 2005/07/13 14:47:35
1. Software greyflash appears because there are too many things in view for the engine's default values of the cvars r_maxedges and r_maxsurfs. Doing only a fastvis just increases this risk. Level 4 vis is what's usually considered a fullvis and you either use -fast or -level 4, not both.
2. I don't know why you think you're close to the edge with any of those values, but I can't see any obvious problems. Faces are a concern for vis, but it's better to look at the vis leafs/portals values for hints. Entity limits are usually much higher than your values if not each entity is unique, i.e. has its own model.
For comparison, Lun's recent huge lunsp1 has 2275 entities and 20900 faces. I don't think you'll have to worry too much about entity/face limits yet and when you do, you'll probably hit the edict/portal/packet limits instead.
3. The Fade Gate in Light is mainly for cutting processing time significantly with basically no losses. It has cut times by up to 93%, but typically around 50-75%.
The problem you mention is a basic limit of the Q1 switchable light styles; you can't have more than four on each face, including ambient light. You'll have to reduce the overlapping of switchables.
This can be done by e.g. brushes, linear attenuation or spotlight cone. Disregarding this issue will in the engine just cause bad lighting (depends on switchables setup) in that area, nothing else.
To help software (i.e. WinQuake) players, just follow the classic rules for good Q1 maps. Many limits are basically the same in most engines, soft or GL. Greyflash can be fixed by just increasing the cvars r_maxedges/r_maxsurfs to 99999 e.g. in the autoexec.cfg.
In my WinQuake (and other engines), most limits are raised so it's more of a performance issue, e.g. having 2000 shamblers attacking you in one big room will probably be a slide show ...
Maybe the easiest rule is to make full builds of your map now and then, check the logs for errors/warnings and make sure it's loadable/playable in the target engine(s). This way you'll catch problems early on.
Phait
#3836 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.63] on 2005/07/13 15:12:57
don't release a map that's only fastvis:ed or the mapping gods will eat you alive
Thanks
#3837 posted by . [68.74.213.93] on 2005/07/13 15:53:37
And cyBeAr -- well, I certainly hope I don't come across a VIS that takes days or weeks, mostly because theres only one computer and I'm not the only one that uses it - and also, no feckin' way am I waiting that long.
Aguirre
#3838 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/13 17:39:24
come to think of it, how hard / unorthodox would you consider making a detail brush type that casts shadows? So a lot more stuff could be func_wall:ed and thus vis quality would improve and time lessen a _huge_ amount.
(always fullvis a release. And run around with software to see grey-outs. Even czg's terra6 has one greyout place in sw... :( )
#3839 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.98] on 2005/07/13 18:26:30
> don't release a map that's only fastvis:ed or the mapping gods will eat you alive
No, that would just be Archos, the god of ancient hadware, outdated software, and pottery.
Phait.
#3840 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2005/07/13 19:59:17
Listen to the words that have been spoken to you.
If you really can't do a long vis in one session on your computer, then:
1. Use aguiRe's tools, I believe they allow you to pause the VIS job and resume it later,
or,
2. Ask some nice person to run the VIS job on their own computer.
P.s
#3841 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2005/07/13 20:00:39
If you come across a full vis that takes days/weeks on a modern computer, you've probably done something totally, utterly, horribly wrong. Design the map properly.
Erm
#3842 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/13 20:21:51
I've read aguirRe's reply, thank you.
I use his tools (what else is there to use?) and am aware of VIS save states. It's just I've read of people having huge, detailed maps that will take days no matter what.
Bambuz
#3843 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.180] on 2005/07/14 03:23:12
I don't know, but there are other aspects than reducing fullvis processing time, e.g. higher r_speeds and tjunction sparkles in-game (see also my ToolTips). Not to mention saturating the unique model limit (usually <200) pretty quickly.
And vis "quality" wouldn't improve at all, you'd just shortening processing time (which of course still is important).
Frib
#3844 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.180] on 2005/07/14 03:31:04
There are many excellent Q1SP maps that take days or weeks to process. Kinn's Marcher took about 140h to finish and several of necros' and Tyrann's maps required many days.
As more mappers want open and epic style, this trend is probably here to stay. If only I could find a cure for vis like the Fade Gate for Light ...
AguiRe:
#3845 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.48.241] on 2005/07/14 04:09:06
I did say 'probably'. :D
I'm assuming Phait is not doing anything that is even close to the scale/complexity of Marcher. That's a pretty extreme example.
And with all due respect to Kinnecros, if you're doing something that is that far beyond the limits of the original game engine and tools, you have to expect that kind of grief. Personally I don't believe in 5000 poly Q1 maps.
That doesn't mean I won't play and enjoy maps like Marcher, but I do feel that stuff like that is excessively indulgent.
Phait
#3846 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.48.241] on 2005/07/14 04:31:36
I've read aguirRe's reply, thank you.
Good for you. I didn't. It didn't concern me. I was just trying to be helpful. Sorry.
It's just I've read of people having huge, detailed maps that will take days no matter what.
Well, that's not necessarily true. There are a few things to note:
Q1 compilers are fairly fickle and unpredictable. Your map may take much more or less time to process than you can reasonably expect, depending on the exact geometry/layout of the level. However, having said that...
Good vis blocking will probably cut down the VIS time of your level tremendously. You can have a complex, high poly level and still have a short vis time, if you are sensible (and a little lucky).
If you have a level which is essentially one or two massively open areas, with a lot of complex geometry partially occluding other areas of the map (or not!?), your map will take a long time to vis, and (probably) run like ass.
However, if you section off each major area very well (eg long/bendy corridors, water with no -watervis, etc) and guarantee that no large, complex areas see directly into other large, complex areas, you will keep your vis time under control.
You WILL drastically increase your vis time if you don't do this. Basically, if you have a complex room/area which has direct visibility to another complex area, your vis time will go up exponentially. So if you have a complex area which can see into another complex area which can see into another complex area... well, you get the idea.
Of course, this is just my layman's understanding of it, based on experience and only a little real knowledge. I'm sure if I've said something incorrect, aguiRe will call me on it though : )
Heh
#3847 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.225] on 2005/07/14 06:18:26
No it's basically correct. The thing that maybe is the most difficult to intuitively understand is that visibility for vis/engine does not mean point-to-point, it's leaf-wise. If you can see another leaf from anywhere within the current leaf, it's considered visible.
Leafs are the many small or big blocks of empty air inside a map that's generated by qbsp, all separated by the portals.
Also, there's no obvious relationship between the vis processing time and the "quality" (i.e. low r_speeds in-game). One might even say that the longer vis runs, the more it fails to optimize the map (i.e. higher r_speeds).
Maybe the best way to understand how vis works, is to load a map that's fast- or fullvised in WinQuake, enable cvar r_draworder 1 and have a look around. This is how the engine sees the map.
Thanks Again
#3848 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/14 07:57:43
Insightful posts. I did know of the hinderances of long distances from area A to B and/or C, and so on. I don't have any areas that are reaaaaaallly long and open, so maybe I have disregarded a couple spots I could implement some VIS blocking, that didn't seem as problematic.
The thing about big, detailed maps is - it's like the new standard these years now. Kinn's work actually inspired me to start the addon I'm working on - and while no map is *yet* ;) as big in scope, detail still abounds and I might get a little more ambitious.
Aguirre
#3849 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/14 08:10:48
you said that making stuff func_walls doesn't improve vising.
But when I've checked stuff in quake with r_drawflat (that shows how qbsp breaks the brush faces into polygons), for example czg's terra6, it really makes a difference.
Look:
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
In terra6, there are thin window bars (2 horizontal and 2 vertical brushes) on every window opening, and they are world/bsp because of lighting questions I guess. But if you change them to func_wall, r_speeds drop a lot. Notice the vastly different amount of faces.
(I was trying to make terra6 a dm level at winter but sw fuhquake kept graying out at places (many people use that), and I haven't finished yet. The map is at the same dir if you wanna check it out.)
My layman's understanding is that qbsp has to do this because of the fundamental bsp tree splitting algorithm, and it can't be routed around by anything except by excluding the brushes from the whole bsp - i.e. making them entities.
That should also reduce vis times since there are less faces. Maybe i'm wrong. Also entity-making directly should reduce leaf count!
Ok, More
#3850 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/14 08:20:56
so I don't know, maybe the final visibility calculation product will be approximately the same but the number of faces drops by about a factor of 3 in my example case area so both the vis and the game should run faster.
Make possibility to make shadow-casting func_walls please! A bit flag in func_wall? (or a completely new entity type? That is changed to func_wall during compiling after lighting or something... that would be a hack though, preventing multiple compiles on a bsp) Light entities are already modified anyway so it's not a big step - and it would anyway only affect compile time if done right and the maps would work perfectly in old engines too.
thank you.
Bambuz
#3851 posted by R.P.G. [208.221.166.2] on 2005/07/14 09:26:03
I really don't know how much you know about mapping, so forgive me if I sound condescending. However, you (along with some other folks) might want to read this article at Rust on poly count reduction:
http://www.gamedesign.net/node/53
It's written for Quake 2, but a lot of the information still applies to Quake.
Still More
#3852 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/14 09:29:23
some people complain that entities greyflash out. I've found this to be a problem with the map in general having too many faces or something in sw quake - which the changing of detailwork to func_walls would precisely cure!
If you bring details to world to avoid them flashing out, that'll just flash out something else, like health paks and only worsens the problem by increasing the face amount a lot!
I don't know what the func_walls do to network traffic. I imagine, since they can never move, their position would never need to be transmitted anyway and they would cause no traffic at all.
Quake's Interface GFX
#3853 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/14 10:13:31
I'm editing the interface GFX, all is going well so far:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
But - I cannot find the number .lmp(s)! Where be they?
Numbers(and A Horror Story)
#3854 posted by Preach [217.44.22.226] on 2005/07/14 10:29:28
The numbers are all hidden in gfx.wad, along with most(all?) of the HUD elements. You might need a program like adquedit to get at them.
WARNING
Adquedit requires you to add directories to it's list of mod folders before you can open them. Deleting them in adquedit with the delete key does not remove them from the list, but rather deletes the folder itself. I almost deleted my entire drive like this, fortunately the adquedit folder comes high up alphabetically, and it crashes when it attempted to delete itself.
Ahhh
#3855 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/14 10:37:38
Thanks. Yeah I'm using Adquedit and exporting to PCX, and I found a PCX to LMP conversion app. Thanks for the warning also, but I recall deleting a folder, and haven't noted anything missing on my hard-drive.
Triangles, Triangles...
#3856 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/14 11:21:23
... I've even got triangles on me triangles. For Bob's sake, give me a circle!
http://img344.imageshack.us/img344...
Replies
#3857 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/07/14 11:44:26
Aguirre: in addition to r_draworder in winquake, you can use r_showtris in fitzquake to get similar information.
Bambuz: that's weired how your gun and monster models don't have solid-colored triangles, but instead are smooth shaded. What video card are you using?
Preach: I did delete my entire C:\games folder doing that. It was terrible.
Hl Tex's
#3858 posted by drew [205.206.88.29] on 2005/07/14 11:53:45
I know alot of you guys will think this to be sacrilege, but I want to use HL textures in Quake. I converted the wad to quake format, but there are a few little things I'd like some quick help with.
1 - is there a way to darken all of the textures in texmex?
2 - how do I eliminate the fullbright spots?
thanks
Metlslime, RPG
#3859 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/14 12:07:12
metl:
geforce4 mx440. Do you want my commandline & configs?
Also the face coloration is a bit funny in the second shot at the right side of the top of the stairs - almost exactly same red tone in two adjacent faces.
RPG:
yeah I know 95% of that stuff although the 1 unit offsetting hadn't occurred to me before today... and doesn't that break some things f.ex brushes are good to be on big grid and faces on same planes etc.. Besides the whole thing being a gimmick. All in all, that article supports my point entirely. Thanks for the link anyway.
Metl
#3860 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.113] on 2005/07/14 14:11:52
Thanks, I didn't know that. I think I prefer the WQ display with texes, but it's good to have an alternative.
Corpse Disposal Service?
#3861 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/15 07:23:38
I have over 250 monsters in my latest FMB and thought it might be beneficial to dispose of the corpses as we go, especially as I haven't finished the map yet.
As a test, I have used:-
{self.nextthink = time + 60;
self.think = SUB_Remove;};
immediately after the death frames, which works fine.
But it looks a bit too sudden if you happen to see it in-game. Is it possible to 'fade' the image of the monster before removing it somehow? Or perhaps associate the disappearance with some other effect?
Rather than reinvent the wheel, does anyone know of this idea already released somewhere? (I have seen it in some Paks, including a nice sinking into the ground effect, but these have not been put out to public use)
I did Google "Quake SP corpse disposal" and got links to rather too many true-to-life ideas.
Well I Full-VISed The First Map...
#3862 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/15 07:34:05
Took only 40 minutes - I was expecting a couple hours or more. I may have read the timing wrong. It's stated in the readmes that the format is:
Changed time format when hours > 0 to "HHh MMm" (e.g. 12h 13m
About midway it started reporting:
Full: 56.4, Elapsed: 6:14, Left: 17:15, Total: 23:29, 26, then finally
Full: 100.0, Elapsed: 39:04, Left: 0:00, Total: 39:04, 100
Elapsed time : 39:16
State time : 0:02
So what confused me was, when I saw a number such as 34:16 - I thought it was saying 34 hours! But no, stupid me - it'd of been 34 hours only if it said: 34h 16m
:P To think I let this run while I slept...
QC Question
#3863 posted by . [69.211.152.125] on 2005/07/15 09:16:45
I'm familiar enough with if/else statements so this should be simple enough. I'm looking in CLIENT.QC and what I want to do, is have the "end episode" text actually display every 2 maps. The player does NOT need to collect the runes for these to display, and from what I'm reading, that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite either.
if (intermission_running == 2)
{
if (world.model == "maps/e1m7.bsp")
This tells me "if intermission is displayed on map E1M7..." - so, wouldn't I simply change "maps/e1m7.bsp" to "maps/mymap.bsp", and then my message will display?
Two other things, below the above:
{
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_CDTRACK);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 2);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 3); Do I need to change anything here?
Lastly, I should just be able to take the episode text in client.qc and compile it into progs.dat completely alone, right? Or would I need to just modify the client.qc, leaving everything else inside it intact, then compile the progs.dat with everything thats originally in it?
Thanks for all the help!
#3864 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/15 09:32:49
First one: Yes, your assumption is correct.
Second one: Those are for changing the track of the CD, to play the intermission music. I'm not too sure about the protocol here tbh.
Third one: You will need to do a full recompile of the progs.dat.
Ok, Checked My References:
#3865 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/15 09:38:10
12.1.4. Set CD Track
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, SVC_CDTRACK);
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, val1); // CD start track
WriteByte(MSG_ALL, val2); // CD end track
Fading Corpses
#3866 posted by Preach [81.155.194.29] on 2005/07/15 11:38:47
Here's a little bit of code that will make the corpses fade in engines that support .alpha. In engines that don't support it, the corpse will disappear as usual. There's no way to hack it in engines that don't support .alpha nativly, but most GL based engines have it. Here we go:
Open subs.QC, and right at the top add
.float alpha;
Then, add this routine below SUB_Remove.
void() SUB_Fadeout =
{
self.alpha = self.alpha * 0.8;
if (self.alpha < 0.01)
{
remove(self);
return;
}
else
self.think = SUB_Fadeout;
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
}
Then, replace all the SUB_Remove bits you have with
self.alpha = 1;
self.think = SUB_Fadeout;
And it's done!
Course, it doesn't work for all engines, if you wanted to, for example, spawn a puff of particles/blood as you remove the corpse, doom3 style, just look at writing a function similar to SUB_Remove with a particle spawn. Weapons.qc has some examples of particle spawning to look at, with the blood functions at the top and that.
One More Thing
#3867 posted by Preach [81.155.194.29] on 2005/07/15 11:43:46
The fade routine above doesn't act on gibs or heads thrown when you gib a monster. The gibs are removed on a timer anyway, but don't fade, and the head doesn't fade at all. Have a look at throwgib and throwhead and whether they can do the job automatically. Otherwise the heads will use up the entities.
Preach
#3868 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/15 12:09:26
Thanks, I will get onto this first thing in the morning. Will report back how I get on.
HL Tex
#3869 posted by drew [205.206.88.29] on 2005/07/15 12:31:34
so uhm...
How do I reduce the overall brightness in texmex, and how should I go about removing fullbright spots in my textures?
Thanks again.
Corpse Disposal
#3870 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/15 15:44:27
in lost chapters the corpses sank into the ground with a delay.
Grrr
#3871 posted by . [68.78.219.230] on 2005/07/15 22:19:30
I'm editing the console and HUD graphics. All is typically going well except ATTN: METLSLIME! - your Fitzquake (0.75 and 0.80) crashes since my most recent GUI updates. However, Winquake does not crash! Usually the crash can be attributed to a file that is too large/doesn't meet the right size - but this is not the case, and all the graphics are the corret palette too. What say you?
Also Winquake
#3872 posted by . [68.78.219.230] on 2005/07/15 22:23:57
While Winquake does not crash immediately after launch (like FitzQuake), it does crash once I start a map and says: "Double Quake Error - Draw_TransPic: bad coordinates" -- whereas when FQ crashes it just gives a cryptic "This program has performed an error" or somesuch.
Preach
#3873 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/16 00:01:23
Unfortunately, it doesn't work with Fitzquake.
I tried DarkPlaces and at least saw the effect, which is quite cool. Thanks for trying.
Bambuz: I just checked Lost Chapters and it is a good effect, but the code has not been released to Joe Public.
Phait
#3874 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.51] on 2005/07/16 02:02:00
I'm interested in reproducing the crash, do I only need the gfx.wad and do you have a d/l link?
Jesus...
#3875 posted by drew [205.206.88.29] on 2005/07/16 02:12:15
You guys made me cry. Why won't anybody answer me?
Drew
#3876 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/16 02:24:48
Have you tried right-clicking on the texture you want to change and using the Adjust Brightness control? You'll also find Remove Brites in there.
However, it tends to leave one pixel(255) as a fullbright. If that is a problem you will have to export that texture to a graphics program i.e. Photoshop, and adjust by hand.
Drew,
#3877 posted by HeadThump [63.19.139.230] on 2005/07/16 02:24:52
I prefer doodling around with Wally than TexMex -- a simple trick with Wally, just set brightness at -1 and contrast at +1 with the Q1 pallete loaded and it adjusts non palleted textures pretty accurately. You can even set up a wild cards that automates the process. I have never had a fullbright survive that sort or smack around before, so I say, give it a whirl -- as for TexMex, some swear by it, but I for one do not trust it.
Oh Btw,
#3878 posted by HeadThump [63.19.139.230] on 2005/07/16 02:26:45
#3877 belongs in the drunk thread, but in case it is to any degree helpful . . .
Drew
#3879 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/16 02:27:37
I believe this question was asked very recently and the answer(s) are posted above. Use TexMex. It has a function for adjusting the brightness of a texture once loaded ( and so converted to the quake palette ) which basically shifts each color up or down its respective color bar on the palette by however many places.
Two solutions were offered for removing fullbrights:
also using the Adjust Brightness dialogue, hit Remove Brites
or
go to View -> Preferences -> Workspace -> Color Conversion and uncheck Use Full Brites
Both of us who answered said that the other method didn't work properly. Try both and see which does.
And
#3880 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/16 02:30:14
The second method for removing fullbrights only affects textures when they are imported, not if they are already in a wad.
Nice Timing Guys
#3881 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/16 02:32:05
Lol
#3882 posted by HeadThump [63.19.139.230] on 2005/07/16 02:38:20
that was kinda weird
Drew
#3883 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.52.67] on 2005/07/16 05:11:54
Your question was answered at least twice, before you started whining about nobody answering you.
Dxf2bsp?
#3884 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/07/16 09:42:50
I'm searching it for days now, having chequed mdl2map, dxf2map etc.
Is it possible to compile a bsp from a dxf file? Such as using a frame of a model to compile it to a bsp for bmodel.
It would be a nice sculpture.
otherwise I could construkt it again from polyhedrons, but then again I wondered;
is there a way to import dxf to Quark, or do I need another method for this?
MadFox
#3885 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/16 10:04:32
You could import .dxf into Qme, then save it as a .mdl, which you can then convert to .map in Mdl2map. And then compile the map as normal... if you wanted to?
But I don't know of a way to compile a .dfx file directly: the .dfx format is nothing like .map format.
Yeah, There Is A Way
#3886 posted by HeadThump [63.19.199.23] on 2005/07/16 10:51:18
If you have Blender you can load the .dxf up and using this script
http://outpt.co.uk/files/USM%20Exp...
convert it to .ase format. Place the model in a Q3 Arena map as a misc_model with spawnflag 6. Compile with q3map2 http://www.shaderlab.com/ and then run Q3map2 again with the parameters -convert -format map and it will convert the mesh into brushes.
From there, use AquiRe's latest version of Txqbsp with the parameter -q2map (it will retain the q3 map level of accuracy - thnx AquiRe!) and you should have no problems, unless I missed a step.
A few things to note. The Nexuiz team wrote to ID about the legal status of using Q3map2 since they were using it for maps with a Quake based engine and not as the EULA intended, and Tom Hollenshead wrote back to them that for non commercial use, consider it it as GPLed until they formally release it under that license.
AguirRe
#3887 posted by . [68.78.219.230] on 2005/07/16 10:56:23
I'm interested in reproducing the crash, do I only need the gfx.wad and do you have a d/l link?
Thanks for your generosity :) http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4... 300 something KB.
One other problem (I hate posting all my problems in the midst of other's, but bear with me) -- I recently full VIS'd a map, which has no critical errors. It runs fine, I can quicksave and normal save. But when I quickload or normal load my point in the map - it gets stuck at "Loading" and I have to go to the console. In the console it says:
Loading game from e:\games\quake/id1/quick.sav...
couldn't spawn server maps/systkills:__0/__4____.bsp
couldn't load map
What sticks out here is the slashes - both \ and / is used... this problem occurs in FitzQuake 075, 080, and even WinQuake - and my friend experienced the same problem. I've never seen anything like it! You would think there is some map name problem, but the BSP is s4m1.bsp - and the title is something like:
Storage Facility E9
System 4
By Phait
It Might
#3888 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.88] on 2005/07/16 11:35:56
be the old "newlines in title" issue; take a look at my ToolTips document, Engine section. My engines can load such a savegame but the general solution is to remove the newlines from the title.
Thanks for the pak, I'll check it out.
Ok
#3889 posted by . [68.74.215.64] on 2005/07/16 11:45:23
I'll look into the newlines stuff, that was one of my suspicions but didn't make sense as I've played maps w/ such titles and had no save/load problems. Thanks.
Thanks... Twice, I Guess.
#3890 posted by drew [205.206.88.29] on 2005/07/16 12:00:19
Thanks for the help, sorry I missed it before. I guess I deserve a spanking or something.
AguirRe
#3891 posted by . [68.74.215.64] on 2005/07/16 12:09:15
Reading the Q1Tooltips, I'm confused as your advice regarding the BSPInfo. I've extracted the .ENT file just fine, but: and then rebuild using qbsp with the "-onlyents" option.
How does the BSP update with the edited .ENT file? I tried qbsp -onlyents map.map map.bsp - but that didn't update it.
Also AguirRe
#3892 posted by . [68.74.215.64] on 2005/07/16 12:40:15
I searched up the error, and found this in the Quake source:
/*
=============
Draw_TransPic
=============
*/
void Draw_TransPic (int x, int y, qpic_t *pic)
{
if (x < 0 || (unsigned)(x + pic->width) > vid.width || y < 0 ||
(unsigned)(y + pic->height) > vid.height)
{
Sys_Error ("Draw_TransPic: bad coordinates");
}
Draw_Pic (x, y, pic);
}
/*
That may help. Also, while testing this error again I clicked somewhere outside of the dialog box, I believe and got this error: Double Quake error: R_RenderView: called without enough stack - whic you can find in http://www.meowfishies.com/code/qu...
Phait:
#3893 posted by metlslime [64.165.213.82] on 2005/07/16 12:46:59
I'd love to check it out, but I'll have to wait until monday when I'm back at my apartment.
But: 1. What is the error message when it crashes? 2. Does it work in GLQuake?
Metl
#3894 posted by . [68.74.216.120] on 2005/07/16 12:59:42
GL Quake just freezes after "CD Audio Initialized", I can't access any menus or type anything.
Here is the Fitzquake error:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/fq...
I am certain it is the same problem I'm experiencing in WinQuake, except FQ doesn't display the 2 errors I get in WinQuake - just a cryptic crash.
Ah...
#3895 posted by metlslime [67.113.29.56] on 2005/07/16 13:09:19
I just re-read your thing that answers #1.
BTW, I think your problem with winquake is that the graphic is so big tht it goes off the screen. Winquake can't handle that situation, if i recall correctly.
Okay....
#3896 posted by metlslime [67.113.29.56] on 2005/07/16 13:12:26
well i'll try to reproduce it next week. It might be an access violation that windows is helpfully generalizing into "an error."
Hmm
#3897 posted by . [68.74.216.120] on 2005/07/16 13:13:30
Well, the thing is I am not changing the original graphic's dimensions, only the look.
#3885 #3886
#3898 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/07/16 13:49:00
I thought it would work so, but by making one dxf frame in QMLE and saving it to mdl gives a rather strange map that won't load in Quark.
I tried the AC3D studio, and this made a Quake map.
Thing is that all the polyhedrons-strings were after each other, while in a quake map there are just 6 strings to define a polyhedron.
So I diveded them in 6 but still Quark crashes.
Thanks HeadThump. That could be a solution. Fact is that I only can work with Quake1.
Q2 and Q3 I never compiled for, so if I would try that I should make myself convienent with those compilers. And I once made some things with blender, but I can't say I can work with it.
Phait
#3899 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.170] on 2005/07/16 14:27:11
The engine crash bug loading the System4 gfx.wad is caused by a texture anum_0 with invalid dimensions. You can see this also by loading the wad in TexMex; it will refuse to load that texture. Many GL-engines will crash in this situation, but DarkPlaces (Oct 2004) reports correctly.
I've now added checks and messages with texture name to my engines.
As for the onlyents issue; just run:
qbsp -onlyents mapname.ent
If you don't specify extension, qbsp will look for the default extension .map and in this case, it doesn't contain the new changes.
OTOH since I assume that you have the map source, I'd recommend change that instead and rebuild, instead of using the BspInfo method. Use that only if you don't have the source.
AguirRe
#3900 posted by . [68.74.216.120] on 2005/07/16 14:54:35
Thanks very much for your help :)
Actually AguirRe
#3901 posted by . [68.74.216.120] on 2005/07/16 15:07:13
Are you sure? Because I loaded the wad in Tex Mex, and anum_0 shows just fine. It's CONCHARS that never loads (whether in my wad or id's original wad).
Nevermind
#3902 posted by . [68.77.198.138] on 2005/07/16 15:15:57
I replaced my modified anums with the original and it now loads. I won't doubt you ArguiRe ;)
No, You're Right
#3903 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.152] on 2005/07/16 15:35:46
I misinterpreted TexMex' behaviour a bit. The wad is still invalid (including the anum_0 tex report from the engine) but as you say, it's the conchars tex that's not loaded.
After checking some more, I think I have an idea what the problem is. I read somewhere that the original gfx.wad is in fact invalid because they made some hackish addition to the wad and patched the header. This is why TexMex has problems loading the wad. You can check loading e.g. the Hipnotic gfx.wad instead and it will load properly.
However, there's also another problem. You seem to have created these new objects as mip textures (with mipmaps) and that's wrong. They should be StatusBar Pictures instead and definitely without mipmaps.
I've tried to figure out how to convert an existing mip texture to a StatusBar object (i.e. remove the mipmaps) but haven't had any success yet.
Maybe someone else knows how to do this?
MIPs
#3904 posted by . [68.77.198.138] on 2005/07/16 15:51:26
That my graphics have become MIPs is involuntary. What I did was export all the graphics to .PCX, opened in Photoshop and edited there. Then, whichever ones needed to be .LMP were converted. The ones inside GFX.wad were merely imported .PCX files. How they got turned into MIPs, dunno. Must be automatic.
There Was An Old Program Called QArt That Would Do That.
#3905 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/16 15:52:38
Dunno where one would get that nowadays tho...
The Adquedit Solution
#3906 posted by Preach [81.155.194.29] on 2005/07/16 16:19:52
Use the evil folder deleting tool (or Adquedit) for importing into your gfx.wad. It should always save it correctly, it accounts for the wierdness of the conchars file and all that automatically.
Preach
#3907 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/16 17:00:08
I have decided to use the 'sinking' monster route to get rid of my corpses.
I have created a simple SUB_Corpse_sink that lowers the origin_z value a unit at a time and lowers my corpse until it is out of sight. I then use remove(self). It works so far.
However, if I quickly no_clip to the floor below, I can see the corpse appear through the ceiling before suddenly disappearing altogether.
I am thinking that if a monster is on a walkway above the player and is then killed, the player could see all this happening. Is there a way to get the player to sink into the 'ground' by (effectively) removing it in layers. I have in mind a pack of cards that I keep removing the bottom card until the pack has gone.
I have seen this sinking effect in Lost Chapters although I do not know how it is achieved there.
Mike
#3908 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/16 17:24:43
The corpse removal in Chapters works exactly as you appear to have implemented it yourself. If you check out any monster that dies on a walkway in Chapters ( the ogre above the GL in chapter_secret for example ) you'll see his corpse sink through the wooden boards and turn black before disappearing.
Preventing the model showing through is basically impossible in Quake as far as I can tell.
Trying to skim the bottom off the model like a deck of cards would require that the polys be rendered individually and relative to world polys, which Quake simply doesn't do. I think that would need an engine mod. DP could maybe do it.
re: chapters progs. No word from necros, guess I'll have to email him again. Unless he responds here.
Kell
#3909 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/17 00:01:14
OK, thanks. I'll carry on the way I'm going.
Stopping It Showing Through - There Is A Way, Kinda
#3910 posted by Preach [86.129.230.36] on 2005/07/17 04:27:50
What you could do is make an extra animation sequence where the model itself sinks down, but that any vertex that is more than 2 quake units below the floor gets flattened. That way nothing would show through a floor more than 2 quake units thick. Of course, doing that kind of animation wouldn't be smooth on an engine without interpolation, so perhaps what you want is to move the model down as you animate it, flatten the vertices at -2, undo the motion downwards, then code it to move at the same rate you originally animated it at. Urrgh. But it should would.
Except...this kind of calculation is assuming the corpse is on a single flat surface. None of this would be valid on a slope. There would be work arounds to minimise that problem, like doing a traceline down, and using the trace_plane_normal to calcluate how far to put it down before playing the animation. And nothing you can do will help if the corpse hangs off the edge of a ledge. So yeah, it's never gonna be great, but it could work better
Would = Work
#3911 posted by Preach [86.129.230.36] on 2005/07/17 04:29:29
nt
Kell Or Necros
#3912 posted by Hrimfaxi [83.92.1.117] on 2005/07/17 07:11:58
I have tried to use the vermis from lost chapters in one of my maps.
It looks like the vermis dosn't respond to the flags 'delay spawn'. Since it is a void map the vermis is visible all over the map.
Is this a bug or haven't you given the vermis the spawn- delay/silent/alert flags?
On Shortages Of Entities And The Like
#3913 posted by Preach [86.129.230.36] on 2005/07/17 10:09:44
I'm working on a mod to help people who are pushing the limit of entites in maps. So far I've got rid of all info_player_starts, up to 16 of each of info_player_deathmatch, info_player_coop and info_intermissions. The entites are loaded in the map, but then the position/facing of each is stored in memory and the entites freed up.(thanks to the natural selection mod team for the idea of doing this, they do a similar thing to keep their mod running in half life). At this point I'd like to express my dislike for the original quake mappers who used info_player_starts as teleport destinations, it complicates the removal code.
Speaking of teleports, the mod also gets rid of info_teleport_destinations, by a similar method. Since you have another entity to store the location of the destination in, namely the trigger_teleport that sends you there, the method works for any number of teleports in a map. This is all automatic, build the teleport as you usually would and the mod does the fix. I'll probably get round to adding the teleporting monsters by a flag code soon.
I'm also hoping to add a few options for corpse removal. The options should be setable in worldspawn, and possibly per monster as well(overriding the general level preference). The options I'm considering are:
Never remove corpses(current behavior)
Remove corpses when running low on entites
Remove corpses when running low on entites, but attempt to make static corpses first.
Always remove corpses after x seconds
along with
Fade away on removal
Sink away on removal
Burn away(think doom3) on removal
The remove when running low on entites needs a bit more explanation. I now have an entity counter running in the mod, that will know when there are few entities left, and when you get close to the limit, the mod will start removing 'expendable' entites. This includes things like explosions, flying lavaballs(although not the spawners) and if you set the flags to do so, corpses. Corpses would probably be the only things to have an effect applied when removed, the others would just disappear. The list of expendable entites would be adjustable, so if you felt backpacks belonged on there, or had rubble spawned from an explodewall you added, then this could be made expendable.
The static entites for corpses is something else I just came up with. There are three reasons why you wouldn't just make every corpse static. One is that, in deathmatch, corpses disappear after a while, so they aren't static, although this only applies to players. The second is that there are only 127 static entities available, and some are already used for torches. The third is that sometimes corpses aren't static, for example if they are on lifts they should move.
The second problem is easy to fix, you keep track of how many static entities you make and stop once you reach 127. I thought the third wasn't fixable, but then I discovered a poorly documented feature in defs.qc - .groundentity. It tells you which entity another is resting on. So wait for the entity to land, then any that land on world can be made static safely.
The final thing is that freeing up entities afterwards isn't much help if you don't use them again. Some of them will be useful for projectiles and the like. To really take advantage of them though, I'll add group spawners like kinn did in Bastion, so you can spawn many monsters from a single entity 'in formation'. You'd have to make sure that enough monsters were killed in previous sections, but then it should work alright.
So, is there a demand for a mod like this? Or anything else that belongs in the project? The scope of it is making it easier to map/work around limitations in the engine without changing the gameplay. Like adding the option to set a player's starting ammo/health/armour/weapons from the spawn point, rather than putting entities on top of the spawnpoint to achieve the same effect.
Preach/Kell
#3914 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/17 10:35:15
Well, what I thought was working last night, was not working last night as I thought!
With a SUB_Corpse_removal added to subs.qc I had what I thought was a nice gentle sinking of the monster: it looked real good. What I didn't realise at the time was that it continued sinking... on and on throughout the map.
When I introduced a SUB_Remove it removed the monster but so fast that you didn't see the sinking action.
What I have ended up with is this after the final monster death frame:-
{
if (!self.corpse_delay) // if no corpse delay set in map
self.nextthink = time + 120; // remove after 120 secs anyway ( may not want this???)
else
self.nextthink = time + (self.corpse_delay); // remove after corpse_delay seconds
{self.think = SUB_Corpse_sink;}
};
And this as the new SUB:-
.float counter;
void() SUB_Null = {};
void() SUB_Remove = {remove(self);};
void() SUB_Corpse_sink =
{
self.counter = 0;
{while (self.counter < 16)
{
self.origin_z = self.origin_z -(1);
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.counter = self.counter + 1;
}
self.think = SUB_Remove;
}
};
The counter was supposed to give me a 'sink' of 16 units. Adjusting the nextthink time has no visible effect.
Are you able to spot my newbie mistake here?
The While Loop
#3915 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/17 10:59:50
the while loop runs until it is finished. It doesn't pause at the nextthink line. What you should do is change the while to an if, and then put a return; after the self.counter = self.counter + 1; line.
Also, try to reuse an unused entity field instead of adding a new one. (.counter.) I believe there's a .count and .cnt field that monsters don't use.
Finally, you might have to call setOrigin on the monster, because I'm not sure the direct origin change is reflected in the game.
Oh, And.
#3916 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/17 11:02:15
Move the line self.counter = 0; to somewhere it isn't called everytime SUB_Corpse_sink is called. As it is now it is reset every time the function is called and the monster sinks forever.
And Furthermore;
#3917 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/17 11:04:16
Add a self.nextthink = time + 0.1; before the final self.think = SUB_Remove; line. self.nextthink is already at time when it gets there.
Czg
#3918 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/17 11:05:43
Thanks, I'm on to it right away.
Czg
#3919 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/17 11:20:05
All done and working. Thanks.
I haven't altered the origin changing as I had already seen that that part was OK.
I had already been down the 'if/then' route but the two main errors were: resetting the counter wrongly, and the missing self.nextthink before the SUB_Remove.
Once again, thanks. Now, back to mapping...
.cnt Warning
#3920 posted by Preach [86.129.230.36] on 2005/07/17 12:19:34
I thought .cnt was a nice safe field for monsters, I was wrong. It's actually used for checking the refire rate in nightmare skill. So it's probably safe to use here once the monster is dead, and won't cause terrible problems if you use it for storing properties like spawnflags(it'll get reset after one pass through the ai system - at most two shots). But don't use it for something that needs to persist throughout the lifetime of the monster, or it'll break in skill 3. A few safer fields for monsters are
.worldtype (only used by the world, a total waste in the original code)
.light_lev and .style (only used for lights, and even then mostly for the compilers)
Nearly any of the player only fields are safe for storing things, although super_damage_finished does actually work on monsters apparently(this field is how long quad damage lasts). Confusingly enough, .count works fine on monsters, as it's only used for triggers.
Entity Fields
#3921 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/17 14:34:30
What are the points against using new entity fields?
As a by-the-way Preach, 'style' is already in use via your teleporting monsters routine.
On The Origin Of Species
#3922 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/19 10:52:56
Well, of models anyway.
Following-on from some previous postings, I still couldn't figure out the origin of the model and how to calculate the bounding box for the editor. In addition, I had noted the some models required to be off-set in the editor to appear correctly in-game, which I find quite annoying.
So, a couple of points have now just sunk in (it's his age doctor, his age), and being the kindly benefactor that I am (as long as money is not involved), I will share with... well, anyone else who couldn't figure it out (unless I am the only one. Mmmm, that would make me totally unique :-)
One, the model's origin is set by the model editor (I am using Qme).
Two, the origin is at 0,0,0 in the editor view
Three, beware (and this is why it took me so long to work it out) there is an Eye Position in the editor that can enable the model to be viewed off-origin but without altering the origin.
Four, the upper and lower box bounds shown in the Model Properties window are correctly shown relative to the origin, regardless of the Eye Position. This is vitally important when placing light sources.
So it boiled down to not realising that there was an Eye Position and that if one had been set, the origin was not as it appeared to be in the Frame Editor window.
All of this means that I can now place my models correctly. Phew!
Preach's Experiments Into Advanced Entity Hacking
#3923 posted by Preach [86.129.212.98] on 2005/07/19 15:42:59
Now, the logic gate thing is very nice and all, it's very flexable and all, but it's a bit of a hack, and the fact that the projectile has to move a distance means you'll never get an instant reaction. So, if you want to know a way to do a simple trick - having a trigger that you can't touch until you fire another trigger to activate it - using the bare minimum of entities, read on.
The switchable trigger starts life as a info_notnull, that most versatile of quake entity. The whole thing hinges on making one that is not a point entity, but a brush entity(in fact, the brush should be the trigger you desire once it's switched on). There may be an easy way to do this if you mess with your config files for the editor, but I did it by hacking the entities with adquedit. The way to do that is to create a point entity info_notnull with the required properties, and a trigger_once with the required size. Then, use adquedit to extract the entities, and open the ents file in notepad.
Then find the trigger_once, and copy the "model" line. Paste said line over the origin for the info_notnull, replacing it completely. Then delete all the lines about the trigger_once, you don't need it.
So, what properties do you have to give the info_notnull? Basically these:
{
"model" "*2"
"touch" "multi_touch"
"use" "InitTrigger"
"target" "door1"
"targetname" "activatetrigger"
"wait" "3"
"classname" "info_notnull"
}
Quick explanations. The model is what we just hacked to make it a touchable thing. The touch is the same touch function as a trigger_multiple - but the info_notnull initially has no size, and so can't be touched, until you fire InitTrigger, in the use slot. The target and targetname are pretty obvious. Wait works the same as normal, set it to -1 to get a trigger_once.
You can also set noise directly here to the wav file you want to play. Bear in mind that it won't get precached by this entity, so you must make sure there's another entity in the map that uses and precaches this sound, even the regular trigger sounds. Most trigger_multiple stuff should just work, except targetting the trigger with another event. Since you have to target it with an event to make it a touchable trigger, targetting it again doesn't do anything.
One more thing to note is that this isn't a toggleable thing. It starts off, you can turn it on, and if you killtarget it you can turn it off again, but that's it. The only solution so far to a proper toggle would be a logic gate, but I'll work on it. There are lots of...interesting hacks you can do with an info_notnull, including a wall mounted ammo dispenser, (kinda reusable) gib fountains without telefrags, teleport flashes, and the classic explosion hack. Maybe I should put a page up about 'em or something.
#3924 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/07/19 16:04:55
Maybe I should put a page up about 'em or something.
I think that would be a very good idea.
Explosion Help
#3925 posted by [S.F.C]CrAzYCoW [66.110.158.210] on 2005/07/23 12:15:19
Hello there :)
I'm currently building a map, and I'd like to implement explosions in it. They would be created by a missile launcher with a button, and when this button is pressed, an explosion (that always explose at the same place) happens. I use a func_explosive, but the problem is that, it only explose once and can't explose again even if I push the button again. That's pure logic, but I'd like it to create an explosion everytime I press the button. Is there a way to make reappears a destroyed block, or something else that would simply make an explosion everytime the button is pressed.
Oh and I have another problem. I use the target_earthquake function. It will imitate the explosion effect, but the problem is that it only happen once. It is activated by a button, I press it once, it works, but if I press it again, it doesn't work. Is there any ways to fix this?
Thanks a lot for your help!
Have a nice day
Trigger Trouble
#3926 posted by voodoochopstiks [85.224.215.164] on 2005/07/23 18:59:58
Hello, I am having trouble with triggers in my map, what I want to do is have two trigger_once's and a trigger_teleport be useable as soon as the player grabs the gold key and not before that. What I've done is that I've put a trigger_once brush around the gold key, which has the target 'idiotkey', I've made a trigger_relay with the targetname 'idiotkey' and the target 'longwalk', and the two trigger_once and the trigger_teleport have the targetnames 'longwalk'. All of the trigger_once's fire at any time, even though 'idiotkey' hasn't been triggered, and the trigger_teleport never triggers.
Help, please?
Tested It
#3927 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/23 19:04:27
it seems the trigger_once (or you could put the target in the key directly too) is triggered on the moment you pick the key but not after that. So the teleport works only if you are inside the trigger_teleport brush at the same time you pick the key - i.e. the key is inside the teleport.
That is not what we intended.
How to "enable" or "disable" the trigger_teleport brush is the original main question here - if it's possible at all? Kind of an opposite to killtarget, like "enabletarget".
I Just Explained This...
#3928 posted by Preach [86.129.230.140] on 2005/07/24 04:11:58
The reason the trigger_teleport doesn't trigger is because if you give a teleporter a target, it only teleports things that are in the trigger at the instant it is teleported. That's how you do teleports for monsters, the teleporter isn't permanently switched on, just for the next 0.2 seconds. That value is hard coded into quake.
But, rejoice, there is a way to do it. Read a few posts up(3923) to my bit on how to activate a trigger using a hack based on the info_notnull entity. Following that guide exactly tells you how to make the trigger_once that turn on, make sure to set the wait of the info_notnull to -1.
You can also use the same trick to turn an info_notnull into a teleporter. Follow the same method as before, but instead of setting the touch function of the info_notnull to multi_touch, set it to teleport_touch. You will also have to set the target of the info_notnull to the info_teleport_destination as you would for a normal trigger_teleport.
Oh, one last thing I realised just before I posted, the whole thing won't work, unless you set the teleport trigger's .nextthink to 9999999, basically as large as you can. Of course, in theory somebody could play the map longer than this time, but plenty of other things in the quake engine will break before this time, so don't worry : -).
While I'm posting, there's a slightly easier way to make brush entities with a classname of info_notnull. Just make a new brush entity in your map, make it a trigger_blah(ie. a type of trigger that doesn't exist). Then give it all the fields the info_notnull is meant to have. Finally use adquedit to extract the entity file, and just rename the trigger from trigger_blah to info_notnull. You still need to go through all the hassle of extracting, editing and replacing the entities, but it's less easy to screw up if you're just changing one classname.
CrAzYCoW: What mod are you using for these effects? I'm sure it's a fairly easy fix in the source code, but since I don't know which mod you're using, I can't look at the code. I had a look at doing it with a hack in normal quake, but all I can do is fire player rockets from an info_notnull. I'm guessing you have the rocket already as a brush model or similar?
An Old Problem Revisited
#3929 posted by Preach [86.129.230.140] on 2005/07/24 04:38:21
Phait, you still need the levitating zombie, right? I got off my arse and completed something for a change, here's how you do it.
First, edit the zombie model. Duplicate the last scene, the crucified animation, and make it into a framegroup (right click and select 'Group frames for scene' in QMe). Then save the model.
Open plats.qc, and go to the very bottom. Duplicate the function misc_teleporttrain and rename the copy as misc_zombietrain. Delete the line that reads
self.avelocity = '100 200 300';
replace the lines
precache_model2 ("progs/teleport.mdl");
setmodel (self, "progs/teleport.mdl");
with
precache_model ("progs/zombie.mdl");
setmodel (self, "progs/zombie.mdl");
and finally add
self.frame = 198;
to the bottom of the function. And that's all, just set it up like you would a normal train. It really shouldn't have taken me this long to figure that one out. I'd copied the function for a func_train instead and was modifying that, for some reason the line
self.classname = "train";
causes Bad Things to happen if you use it for a zombietrain. So now it's fixed and works and I got another double-post in this thread.
Awesome
#3930 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/24 04:58:02
I will see how it works, appreciate your help :)
Thanks Preach
#3931 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/24 05:42:35
but we decided yesternight to pursue the spikeshooter & door AND logic gate route for now...
Hmm
#3932 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/24 07:07:08
on another note, couldn't one do that enableable trigger inbuilt into quake.fgd so it works straight in worldcraft?
Probably...
#3933 posted by Preach [86.129.230.140] on 2005/07/24 07:20:59
You probably could, I'm not organised enough to set that up first. The only problem with it is that there is already an info_notnull in the fgd, and it's a point entity, not a trigger. I'm not sure how well worldcraft would cope with two entities with the same name but different properties. You certainly wouldn't want to hardcode that function into the info_notnull, the best thing about them is that they can do all sorts of different things. Which reminds me, back to writing that up...
:)
#3934 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/07/24 07:24:54
yeah maybe one could differentiate if the other is a point entity and the other a brush, dunno, maybe i'll look into it some year...
Regarding The Entities, Preach
#3935 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/24 13:44:24
Thanks for the tip about this. I've used it now for a targeted trigger_changelevel by simply setting the .use key to trigger_changelevel, which works because trigger_changelevel() doesn't precache anything.
Worldcraft does NOT like it if you put a definition for both a solid and a point entity with the same classname in the fgd. You'll have to make two entries for it, one being solid and called info_notnull2 or something.
However if you're using aguirre's tools, you can automate the process a bit by setting up a batch file like this:
updateents.bat
@echo off
bspinfo -copyents %1
echo Please go ahead and edit %1.ent
pause
qbsp -onlyents %1.ent
@echo on
And then run it like updateents mymap, edit the generated .ent file in your text editor of choice and then go back to the bat file and "press any key to continue...".
If you've got the knowhow to do it you could probably have a commandline tool to do a regex search on the generated ent file automatically and replace all info_notnull2 with info_notnull. You know, something like grep or the likes.
Actually After Thinking About It For 10 Seconds More
#3936 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/24 13:47:40
It would perhaps be best if you didn't have any info_notnull entries at all in the fgd file.
WC will not complain if you type in your own classname in the entity properties, and then doesn't care if the entity is solid or not. The only drawback is you won't get the benefit of SmartEdit, but for info_notnulls there are so many different fields to be set on them depending on what you plan to use them for that using SmartEdit would just be a clutter.
The Grep-like Tool
#3937 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.250] on 2005/07/24 14:51:56
is often called sed (stream-edit) and for the simple entity name replacement, you don't even need regex (which can be a bit tricky to set up).
Preach.. Which Function?
#3938 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/24 19:58:09
and finally add
self.frame = 198;
to the bottom of the function. And that's all...
Which function?
Nevermind
#3939 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/24 20:20:46
I missed the bit about copying the function and renaming it, got it now.
Preach Again...
#3940 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/24 20:30:32
Well, I looked over everything and I'm certain I did things right. You forgot to mention I need to work with the ZOMBIE.MDL by putting it in a progs directory.
So, in the map - the zombie is completely stationary and not in crucified pose. Yet he moans like he does when in that pose. Also, I triggered him and he didn't move to any path_corners I set. I even removed the trigger_once and walked up to him, but nothing happened either.
CrAzYCoW...
#3941 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/07/24 22:14:37
...if you want a hack for multiple explosions using one button then tie sequentially named func_explosions (fe1, fe2 etc.) to trigger_counters with increasing count numbers but the same name.
OK...
#3942 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/07/24 22:23:13
...that might've been a bit confusing.
Make the launch button target a series of trigger_counters named "missile", but give each trigger_counter a higher count value than the last. Now make each trigger_counter target a different func_explosion... to make things easy, get the trigger_counter with count 1 target the func_explosion with the name fe1, trigger_counter with count 2 targets the func_explosion with name fe2 etc.
Moaning
#3943 posted by Preach [86.129.223.236] on 2005/07/25 02:25:38
The misc_zombietrain shouldn't moan at all, unless that's some bit of code you've added. There are no sounds that automatically play with certain animations, and the misc_zombietrain doesn't even precache them, so they'd only be loaded if you had other zombies in the level. Could you make a quick testmap with just a misc_zombietrain and a few path corners, and see if you get the same result?
Preach
#3944 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/25 03:11:30
What I originally didn't realize I needed to do, was rename the monster_zombie to misc_zombietrain and set the fields. I just tried and it works well.
Though, is there anyway to have him in his crucified, animated pose while retaining his train functionality? Or at least how might I have him stationary but in the crucified pose? (He's just stood straight up).
Animation
#3945 posted by Preach [86.129.223.236] on 2005/07/25 07:19:15
I may not have been clear enough in my explanation of how to edit the zombie model. You need to duplicate the crucified animation, and only make the second, copied version of it into a framegroup. If you do that, the framegroup should be frame 198 of the zombie model, and so the line that sets the zombietrain's frame to 198 will make it animated while crucified. I'm guessing that the problem is your modified zombie doesn't have a frame 198, so it loops back to frame 0. The first crucified animation should remain as individual frames, as the normal crucified zombies need those frames to be seperate.
Yep
#3946 posted by . [68.251.201.76] on 2005/07/25 14:38:28
I'm pretty sure that's how I did it, but I'll try it again...
Ok
#3947 posted by . [68.78.217.40] on 2005/07/26 04:04:00
Is this what you mean? Cause if I do it how I understand it, the total frames goes to 204, not 198:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
Two Things
#3948 posted by Preach [86.129.223.140] on 2005/07/26 04:57:59
One is that the total framecount by QMe counts all the frames in a framegroup seperately, so the last frame in the grouped crucifixion is number 204 according to QMe, but that's not how the quake engine will see it. Since the last frame is 204, the first frame should be 198. Since quake treats all the frames in a framegroup as one frame, they will all have the number of the first frame, 198.
Except....There are four other animations that are grouped in your copy of the model, painb through to paine. Each one of these sequences was 10 to 20 frames long in the original model. However, since they are framegroups now, they are each only one frame long. Which brings the total count of frames as quake sees it to about 140.
If you're using some other mod which requires them to be grouped, then you're going to have to work out which frame the grouped crucified animation is, and use that value instead of 198. Otherwise, ungroup them and it should work out.
Oh, and one more thing I should have said before but forgot, rename the second crucified sequence, it's possible it could cause a problem. I really should have put that in the first post, as it's not obvious you need to do it. What usually happens is the two sequences with the same name end up merged into one, but if one is grouped and one is ungrouped it may not happen. Still, best not to take chances and give it a different name.
So Yeah, An Updating Batch File Using Sed:
#3949 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/07/26 10:40:39
bspinfo -copyents %1
sed s/info_notnull2/info_notnull/ %1.ent > %1.edited.ent
copy %1.edited.ent %1.ent /Y
del %1.edited.ent
qbsp -onlyents %1.ent
The stupid copying thing is because I couldn't figure out a 'overwrite old file' switch for the rename command, and if you make sed output to to same file you input from you get a blank file and if you mke sed append to the same file you input from you get a doubled file. Not foolproof, but it works.
Get sed here: http://www.cornerstonemag.com/sed/
Thanks CZG
#3950 posted by Preach [86.129.223.140] on 2005/07/26 10:58:23
Should prove to be useful.
On an entirely unrelated not, I'm sure I remember once seeing a compiler for Q1 that supported a nodraw texture. But now I can't find it, did I just imagine it? If you know where it went please let me know, it would be handy for a mod I'm doing.
Preach
#3951 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/26 13:41:47
Did you mean skip texture?
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/...
That Was The One
#3952 posted by Preach [86.129.223.140] on 2005/07/26 14:19:24
Thanks!
Weird Fish Behaviour
#3953 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.160] on 2005/07/26 15:02:32
Is there any obvious reason why performing a QC "monster in wall" check (i.e. !walkmove(0,0)) for fish should cause them sometimes getting moved way outside the entire Q1 addressable grid, e.g. (100000 10 5)? I've used this extra check for some time in vanilla Q1 without any obvious problems, but doing the same in Nehahra seems to be bad.
In this particular map (neh2m5), fish often swim through walls both with and without the extra check, but it appears as if the check sometimes cause them to really move outside the grid to completely invalid coordinates making them impossible to kill.
Oh, and has anybody been able to run the Nehahra QC build tools in WinXP? I can only run them in Win95, they are some Borland DPMI apps.
CZG
#3954 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.160] on 2005/07/26 15:28:39
If you delete the original ent file first, you can rename the new one without problems. It's the same number of batch lines, but it's slightly faster as there's no data movement. Not that it matters much with small ent files though ...
Quake Demo Editing
#3955 posted by . [68.77.199.252] on 2005/07/28 08:48:25
I can't seem to find a working link for "Remaic" - a Quake demo editor allowing camera setups and different perspectives, etc. Might anyone have Remaic Studio, or know a working mirror?
Perl, Win32 Binary, C++, We Have Them All!
#3956 posted by mwh [82.33.185.193] on 2005/07/28 09:03:12
Here:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/quake...
Ah Thank You
#3957 posted by . [68.77.199.252] on 2005/07/28 09:08:30
:)
Cracks In Manipulated Brushes
#3958 posted by . [68.74.215.234] on 2005/07/31 01:46:32
FOr those of you who have experienced cracks in your arches or pipework, here's a look at what causes the problem and how to remedy it.
1. Can see here cracks in the arch on the left and right of it: http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
Here is the editor shot, you can see small misalignments: http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
2. And here the arch is fixed http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
after straightening up in editor: http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
Probably Preach...
#3959 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/31 04:23:49
What is the difference (or the different use) between self.think and self.think1?
I can find a definition of 'think' as "function invoked when entity must act
", but nothing for 'think1'.
Think1 - The Mystery Revealed
#3960 posted by Preach [86.129.227.28] on 2005/07/31 05:11:04
.think, as you probably know, is a special field according to the engine. When the local time on the server exceeds an entity's .nextthink, the engine automatically executes the function stored in .think.
.think1 on the other hand, is not a special field, it's an added field. If you were writing a mod from scratch, you'd have to include .think, but not .think1. The only time a function stored in .think1 is called is when the QC calls it.
So, when does the QC call .think1? Well, only in one place to the best of my knowledge, and that's in subs.qc, in the functions SUB_CalcMove and SUB_CalcMoveDone. SUB_CalcMove essentially calculates how long you have to wait while moving at a given speed before you reach a point on the line, and then sets the entity to move at that speed, and think at that time.
When you have a object like a door or a platform that moves to a destination point using SUB_CalcMove, you might want it to have a think function be called when it arrives. However, the .think function is already used up, because when the object reachs its destination you must call SUB_CalcMoveDone. SUB_CalcMoveDone basically sets the origin of the moving part to exactly where it should be, there might be rounding errors otherwise. So you store the other function you'd like to call in .think1. When SUB_CalcMoveDone is called, you'll notice it checks for a .think1, and executes it if it's there. SUB_CalcMove sets this .think1 automatically.
Oh, and SUB_CalcAngleMove does the same thing. So two functions use it. Generally if the object isn't some kind of a door or bsp object, it won't use .think1 at all. Monsters, for instance, use their own navigation code rather than this function, so think1 is just empty. Which is a bit inefficient really, it seems like you could merge one of the th_stand fields with think1 and save an entity field. Oh well, the quake QC code wasn't really written with total efficiency in mind...
Hey There Everybody.
#3961 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 08:49:55
I've been trying to make a spiraled hollow pipe using the 0:2 2:1 1:2 2:0 ratio (the standard czg/spog/fingers curve). Now, CZG's curve tutorial (http://czg.spawnpoint.org/curv_tu... stops one step short of this. The last pic he shows is of a spiral platform, if I understand correctly, but I want a curved pipe. Help please? The idea is that I want to have a solid cylinder core with a ascending curved pipe wrapped around it, that the player can walk through.
While I'm on the topic of that tutorial, many of the steps CZG goes through in that tutorial, based on worldcraft, seem impossible given my current understanding of radiant, which I am now using. You can't stretch or skew multiple brushes such precise amounts... or can you?
So... prefabs, ratios, more tutorials, etc would be much appreciated. I've been banging my head against a wall for too long on this.
Grahf
#3962 posted by . [68.78.218.189] on 2005/07/31 09:06:37
I've been thinking of such things too. Go up a few posts and checkout my bit about cracks appearing in arches/pipes as you're bound to encounter those.
Maybe I'll see if I can do what you're describing, but it'll be tough. As for Radiant - would holding ALT while dragging a vertice do it? (guessing)
Preach
#3963 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/07/31 10:12:16
Thanks for your help: little by little I am getting to grips with QC.
Spotlight Width
#3964 posted by . [68.78.218.189] on 2005/07/31 11:34:42
AguirRe - I'm confused as to how to change the width of a spotlight. I did it once a long time ago, but after reading the readme for your lighting tool, and fooling around - all I can seem to do is move the spotlight's angle around - it doesn't get any thinner, which is what I want to do.
Further Curve Investigations.
#3965 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 12:15:23
Phait, If you make your curves correctly, you will NEVER have such cracks.
I'm gonna try and get a little more specific than my previous and post some editor screenshots, as I have no webspace to post .map examples of my attempts.
#1 = http://img180.imageshack.us/img180...
OK. First we have a 12 point cylinder, with each edge raised 64 units higher than where it began. I used vertex editing with split faces, because while doing it with split faces off or edge dragging would save the the flat face of the platform, the edge points don't meet up anymore and become misaligned by tiny amounts. By reading CZG's tutorial again it appears as though triangulating the platform face one way or another is the only way to make the edge points meet up.
Actually, I found an exception to that while messing with doing the same thing with 24 point curves (0:2 1:4 2:4 3:3 4:2 4:1 2:0). Observe:
#2 = http://img138.imageshack.us/img138...
As long as the curved brushes to be spiraled remain essentially skewed rectangles, you can drag their edges to loft them without any misalignments. But as soon as they are, umm... parallelograms, (like the middle and edge brushes, with differing angles on the short edges) you can't. Hence why in that pic they are flat, whereas the rest raise higher. I just thought that was interesting.
#3 = http://img260.imageshack.us/img260...
OK, here's where the trouble starts. We have a nice large 12 point curved pipe. Nice, except for the selected section, which i have attempted to skew upwards by ctrl+leftclicking. Really fucking ugly. So... since those brushes are not "skewed rectangles" like I worked with in #2, I don't expect skewing or edge dragging to work at all. Shall I have to manually vertex edit each face upwards, causing every face to be split?
#4 = http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4...
Let's look closer at where the interior points of this pipe fit onto. Yikes, they only clamp on a grid of 8. That's not... that bad, but i'm not entirely confident the ratios I'm working with are right.
#5 = http://img230.imageshack.us/img230...
Let's try and make that bottom brush loft upwards 128 units. Whoops, radiant won't let me push the last vertex up the last 8 units. I guess that means it would make an invalid brush. Fuck. So I'm nowhere farther than when I started this post, but maybe you all have some clue of what I'm going on about.
Is there some ratio that the whole pipe would have to be lofted by, that relates to the interior ratios of the pipe itself, that are required for this to work??
I hope those imageshack links work, otherwise this post will make very little sense.
BTW
#3966 posted by . [68.78.218.189] on 2005/07/31 12:26:15
Phait, If you make your curves correctly, you will NEVER have such cracks.
That was my point of posting what I did.
BTW, you got Radiant working on OS X. Does it still require that X11 bullshit?
I Played Around
#3967 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.120] on 2005/07/31 13:00:32
with the idea because I have never made a coil before, and thess are the results: yeap, I use Radiant too (though I use 1.2.11 now because it is the latest version that supports my system downgrade).
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7...
The First Solution
#3968 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.120] on 2005/07/31 13:14:36
to making any prefab is to at least scale the x,y and z coordinates to double what you intend the object to be in game.
I'd be glad to write of a little tutorial but someone would need to point me to a no frills screen capture program, or if there is screen capture built in to Radiant, tell me how to use it.
BTW, once you have the coil built, hallowing it out for player walkthrough is tremendously easy.
Phait
#3969 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.157] on 2005/07/31 13:49:22
You set the width of the spotlight cone with the angle key (default 40 degrees). In my Light tool you can also specify an inner cone for a more gradient spotlight. Please check the readme for details.
Grahf
#3970 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/31 14:05:29
As you mentioned, the four-sided planes made on these brushes cannot be contorted so their edges meet up. Unfortunately, because of their shape, you can't split these brushes into triangles. Without using lots of brushes for each of the 12 sides on the pipe, and without hollowing, I don't know how to accomplish this.
So basically there wasn't much point to this post.
Are you still in Greensboro from August through May?
Mkay Then.
#3971 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 14:16:51
Mkay Then, Responses...
#3972 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 14:35:17
Phait: some ingenious bastards created an installer for radiant 1.4 and 1.5 makes it almost idiotproof to install. No fink dependencies or compiling your own source bullshit, it basically does everything for you and makes an application package with all the radiant subfolders in it. take a look if you have a spare mac: http://www.redsaurus.net/gtkradian... Runs beautifully.
Headthump: If I recall the pipe i was taking screenshots of was 512 units across, which was the size I wanted it. Theoretically those curves can be made at almost any size and scaled almost to any size; it just worried me that such a large pipe had interior points on such a small grid. If I try to make architecture inside the pipe that matches up to the same proportions, it will probably end up aligning to a grid of 4, which is rather smaller than I'd prefer to go. But I suspect it'll be inevitable. As long as all the points match up, QBSP's cool with it, right?
That screenshot you got there is pretty close to what I was envisioning. How well does that snap to the grid? Will it scale well to about 8-16 times that size? and what do you mean by "hollowing it out is easy?" If you mean using the hollow command in the editor, that is a really awful idea, and a surefire way to make qbsp hate you.
RPG: Yeah I know it's hard, I'll keep trying. And actually yes I'll be coming back to gboro sometime this Aug, even though I graduated last may. You still in, umm, chapel hill was it? I'll try and catch you on irc sometime.
Grahf
#3973 posted by . [68.78.218.189] on 2005/07/31 14:58:46
Spare Mac? I have a Powerbook :P
Seems Radiant even with installer, still depends on X11 - which I had installed once - I have Radiant on CD for OS X... but ah, just confusing setup. Anyway - it also requires 10.3 and I'm on 10.2 yet. Oh well.
Once You Have The Vertice
#3974 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.89] on 2005/07/31 15:14:17
correct, the scaling will work fine at larger sizes.
lol, hallowing is a horrible solution to this, unless you are dealing with large areas and a well contained surface (that doesn't split up adjacent brushes in the compilation).
Instead, I would start out with three seperate spiraling brush builds to represent the cieling, wall, roof than the way I started here.
My example above was an octogon, given it is all 45 degrees, the math stays easy. I'm working on a 12 poly sided spiral now, and to be honest I'm not encountering the problems RPG mentioned. It makes me worried I am missing something.
I avoid using the vertice tool, and instead I move the sides into position and cut. It is less messy that way.
#3975 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 15:36:49
phait, doh you're right, but it's apple's X11. I suspect macradiant will always be X11 only unless somebody makes Aqua-native GTK2-wrappers or something, which will probably never happen. And you should upgrade to Tiger (10.4), stuff like Spotlight makes it really worth it.
Headthump, can you show me a .map file? mail me if you'd like: owen dot greenwood at gmail dot com
Okay,
#3976 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.89] on 2005/07/31 15:49:30
I'll send you the first map. The second isn't ready for puplic consumption.
Grahf
#3977 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.254.133] on 2005/07/31 16:09:47
Check your Guilford e-mail, and then update your profile if that's obsolete. :p
My Guilford Email Expires In Exactly One Day
#3978 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/07/31 18:49:53
but the mapping help thread is surely not the ideal place for this conversation. :P
I'm Close To Cleaning Up
#3979 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.124] on 2005/07/31 19:36:15
that map I sent you, Grahf. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night without straightening that stuff out.
Constructing Sloped Curved Tubes
#3980 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/08/01 12:30:50
Thinking about recent questions posted here, I built an acending hollow pipe (that the player can walk in) spiraling around a cylinder. It worked out well, so I cloned it and mirrored it to make a hollow tube figure-eight. Again, no problems.
I am curious how any of that would be possible without using the vertex tool. Can curved tubes be sloped without vertex editing?
#3981 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/08/01 12:57:51
I think vertex editing is the only way. In Radiant, edge dragging or skewing makes really messed up brushes that don't align right.
Do you have a picture or .map file of your creation?
Edge Dragging And Skewing...
#3982 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/01 13:54:20
i use them; they work in some situations; vertex manip works in others; you just have to know when to use each one.
Grahf
#3983 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/08/01 15:47:06
I'm not set up to take screenshots in the editor, so I sent you the .map file instead.
Hey
#3984 posted by wrath [213.112.29.156] on 2005/08/01 16:41:20
share the love. I'll host it for you if need be.
Err
#3985 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/08/01 17:41:59
I meant that in this particular case of curved spirals, edge dragging and skewing weren't working for me. rereading my earlier post, that should have read "I think vertex editing is the only way to make these spirals." That was a vague blanket statement the first time around.
What Metl Said
#3986 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2005/08/01 19:48:02
There are some cases where skewing can be the only way to achieve the desired result (at least, in a sane amount of time). Especially in an environment like Radiant where the editor will not allow to to create invalid brushes while working.
A good example is if you want to create a curved, 12-sided pipe using brushes. We all know you can't rotate on any angle other than 90º, and it would be completely insane to try to move each vert into the proper position (even if that is possible in your editor)... the only viable solution is to skew and use the clipper tool to finish up, once everything is in position.
AguirRe
#3987 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/08/02 08:50:06
I have a small problem with light. There's always a fullblack stripe to the left from the brush that I use a lightsource (32x32x8 sized). The light spot is situated in 16-32 units in front of it.
Here's the screensot of it: http://www.quakemaps.nm.ru/misc/li...
Any ideas of how to avoid it?
the commands line is: light.exe -fast -gate 1
Try
#3988 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.79] on 2005/08/02 11:10:27
removing -fast and/or adding -soft or -extra4. If it's still there it could be that you're using an editor that requires enhanced texture positioning (e.g. QuArK or Hammer), then try adding -etp.
The last thing I can think of is that there's a brush problem (misalignment), it can sometimes cause bad shadows. Try manipulating the brushes and see if it helps.
The Sloping Curves Thingy
#3989 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/08/02 11:39:54
I did some stuff, like a spiral staircase (a map in progress) but a ramp instead of steps. Thanks for help from func people and czg especially.
So don't read if you already know.
Since it is a twisted surface, it must be constructed of triangles. (The slope is steeper on the inner curve than the outer curve, so they can't be in the same plane and thus can't be edges of the same face.)
Requires vertex editing in Worldcraft and isn't that hard.
That technique should be extensible to tubes and all the like too. I think maybe sometimes by skewing the brushes and sometimes by rotating them. One by one.
I'm off now.
But...
#3990 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/08/02 12:00:49
skewing with multiple brushes selected in Radiant does wacky things. At least, it doesn't move them all as a unit.
It's Becuase...
#3991 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/02 13:27:28
radiant "skew" isn't really skew. it's more like "drag all the edges that belong to this face."
Help....
#3992 posted by ionous [70.19.226.4] on 2005/08/02 17:26:35
Worldcraft error:
I was innocently mapping away, when i clicked on the camera button. There was no camera to be found now. It seems to have disappeared. Even when i closed the map, and then reopened it, no luck, still no camera.
What's going on?
Ionous...
#3993 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/08/02 18:16:47
Are you working from the .rmf or the .map?
The .map does not contain camera info, the .rmf does.
Grahf...
#3994 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/08/02 18:30:39
Just shot through a .bsp and .map, that might be useful, to your gmail acc.
Title == Spiral Tube
#3995 posted by ionous [70.19.226.4] on 2005/08/02 18:31:54
I was working from a .rmf.
I just ended up selecting the entire map, and pasting it on a new map.
Thanks though.
Worked Around It
#3996 posted by ionous [70.19.226.4] on 2005/08/02 18:32:19
Just copied entire map and pasted on a blank one, saved under old filename.
Thanks though Distrans, it was a rmf, have no idea what caused it.
Thanks For All The Curves Folks
#3997 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/08/02 19:06:30
I gave up a couple days ago and worried about other things, but several of you have sent me interesting map files.
Distrans solved the problem actually, at least to my satisfaction. The answer is: the part of the pipe that curves around, cannot also be a ramp. there has to be a section of completely straight axial pipe that is the ramp upwards.
Now, another question:
Is there any syntax for the Radiant .def entity format that will cause a certain key/value pair to be added whenever I create a certain entity. Like, let's say I want all my func_doors to have a "wait" of 5 and a "sounds" of 4... can I specify these values in the .def file such that I don't have to enter them manually?
Ionus
#3998 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/08/03 00:36:44
I don't know if I understand your problem.
It happens often to me that I delete a camera by mistake when I press Delete while in camera view.
To create new camera. Just select the camera button, then go to any of the 2D views, hold Shift and drag the mouse. And you have a new camera :). You can have more than one camera in a rmf file.
OMFG...
#3999 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/08/03 06:32:36
I LOVE ANKH!!!
I have been tackling Ionous' deleted camera problem the same way he has...until now.
THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU!!!
Good To See Happy People :)
#4000 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/08/03 07:01:35
AguirRe
#4001 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/08/03 10:27:22
I have a 'no entity in empty space' warning. Usually I simply no_clip around the map and the empty space becomes self-evident, and is easily dealt with.
However, I cannot find this latest one. I know that it is not a major problem but as I am getting close to certain limits e.g. clipnodes, can you tell me what is the overall effect of leaving it? Presumabley, unnecessary clipnodes and marksurfaces? Is there any way to find the area?
In The
#4002 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.51] on 2005/08/03 10:53:03
hull(s) you get that warning, qbsp doesn't fill (remove) the outside volumes, which most likely increases #clipnodes. Marksurfaces are only affected by the visible hull.
To fix it, you'll need at least one entity that's sufficiently clear from solids in all directions. Please remember that hulls 1/2 are expanded from the visible one, so they need increasingly more free space.
I don't recall the exact distances, but it sounds like you have pretty cramped quarters. Or all your entities are very close to the walls. You can e.g. just insert an info_null in the middle of a large room.
You're not using any odd qbsp options?
Nothing Odd...
#4003 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/08/03 11:19:41
...I have been joining some large maps (my three have become one) and I have already cleared some true empty space i.e. space completely enclosed without any entites and the player cannot get to.
I am actually using qbsp with only -verbose. It is reported in hulls 1 & 2. The latest one must be so small that I cannot use the noclip method to find it.
Being so small, it can't be generating many clipnodes so I'll ignore it.
I'm A Silly Ol' Sod!
#4004 posted by aguirRe [81.154.66.228] on 2005/08/03 11:48:58
This particular map didn't have any entities in it yet - no lights, no doors; nuffin'. Groan...
What The Fuck Happened!?
#4005 posted by . [69.211.152.33] on 2005/08/03 12:05:17
I reformatted my drives yesterday, I did backups of all my work on CD and uploaded to my server.
Both the backup .RMF and uploaded .RMF map sources report "unused keyvalues" in each map, and there are TONS of these reports when I do a problem check in Worldcraft.
I don't get how this happened! I didn't have these problems before the reformat. WTF!
Heh Nevermind
#4006 posted by . [69.211.152.33] on 2005/08/03 12:12:08
Y'know all I had to do was use CZG's updated FGD -- which I normally do use! But I thought that it was in my Worldcraft backup .zip, which is what I extracted my current setup from.
Ta.
Nice Try Mike...
#4007 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/03 12:16:15
but i don't think AguirRe would use the word "sod."
AguirRe
#4008 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/08/03 13:03:51
thanx, removing -fast option seems to help me. The dark strip is still visible but it's much brighter now. I think it'll go away after extra lighting of the map.
Ooops
#4009 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.66.228] on 2005/08/03 13:11:53
Sorry aguirRe. I was, of course, talking about myself.
Vertice Alignment Issues
#4010 posted by . [68.77.197.0] on 2005/08/04 09:42:39
This is a slightly different issue from cracks appearing in pipes and other manipulated stuff, because everything is aligned quite well.
As you can see in-editor, everything on the tower lines up well:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
But in-game:
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
While these misalignments are quite small that I feel the need to fix them, I still am curious why they happen.
Bah
#4011 posted by . [68.77.197.0] on 2005/08/04 09:44:46
Corrected: While these misalignments are quite small that I don't feel the need to fix them
Tronyn
#4012 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.180] on 2005/08/04 10:22:36
Did you get my last two emails?
The Grid, The Grid
#4013 posted by Preach [86.129.221.62] on 2005/08/04 10:51:27
Although the vertices look like they are lined up in the editor, this is misleading because of how the compilers load the map. The vertices are not loaded, the planes of the faces are. The vertices are then recreated by the compiler by calculating the intersections of the planes on the brush.
If your points are on the grid, then the planes will always be defined by nice round numbers, sufficiently so that the intersection points actually line up correctly. If the vertices are not on grid, then there is the chance of rounding errors. Some rounding errors are great enough for different brushes to place the vertices in different locations.
I'm sure somebody else can give you a more technically correct explanation of the process, but that's how it works to the best of my knowledge.
#4014 posted by grahf [68.170.78.66] on 2005/08/04 12:46:52
the "indent" in that core cylinder looks nice, but it looks in the editor that the narrowest part is snapping onto quite a small grid size (around 4 perhaps?). remake the slanty bits so they match up on no less than a grid of 8 or 16 and i bet it would go away.
Misc_shubbyporttrain
#4015 posted by generic [71.1.2.212] on 2005/08/05 19:28:06
Does anyone have an (Worldcraft) FGD definition for a misc_teleporttrain and, while I am asking, a handy tutorial on how to properly set up Shubby's demise?
Gee, thanks.
Grab This File
#4016 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.224] on 2005/08/06 01:24:44
it'll explain everything
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/id...
Hellzbellz
#4017 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.224] on 2005/08/06 01:26:41
grab every file listed under QuakeLab, there are quite a few gems in there
Cheers, HT
#4018 posted by generic [71.1.3.106] on 2005/08/06 05:41:07
I finally got the spiky ball moving...
HOM
#4019 posted by Madfox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/08/06 12:49:55
Maybe it's just an aestethic thing, but when a Q1map shows HOM's after vising testlevel4, and fastvis don't, what would be the best thing to do?
Recompile untill all HOM's are gone, or just leave it fastvis.
Also, is it possible to load a wadfile into Deathmatch maker other than the standard?
It gives only *.wlb files, which I can't find compatible.
HOM Issues
#4020 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.213] on 2005/08/06 15:04:44
Check out my Q1 ToolTips, section Portal Problems.
Idea About QBSP
#4021 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/08/08 13:59:49
What if you could compile multiple .maps of increasing complexity into one .bsp?
Say you have a large map with much detail.
Separate the largest chunks (major walls and boundaries) of the map into a separate map file. Compile a bsp from this map first. This would provide a rough and easy to handle bsp tree for vis to get a good foundation on. Then compile 'into' it the rest of the map, splitting up the nice and chunky nodes of the tree further into the final tree.
Entities could either be kept only from the last map or they could be merged. Light- and vis-data would be discarded.
The effect of this would be quite similar to that which you get from using hint brushes in Q2/Q3 maps. The mapper gets to control where in the map major bsp splits occur, and if he's clever he can reduce vis time (guess by quite a lot) by making sure the larger parts of the map can't see eachother in the 'chunky' map file.
This could be taken further by the mapper separating the map into more .maps with increasing detail, so you could have the equivalent of Q2 detail brushes, that only split up the actual node the brush is in, and not any further.
There could perhaps be some difficulty for mappers in working with this in the editor, since it would be impossible to maintain several different, overlapping map files at once*, and also a hassle to separate out all the brushes at various detail levels for each compile. Perhaps this could only be a usable option for the final compile before release.
Thoughts, please?
Also, implementation... ¬_¬
* Doesn't GTKR support instancing of .map files into the current map via some sort of mapmodel entity?
Maybe Atypical, But....
#4022 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/08 21:34:49
I've been thinking about layout issues and what constitutes a good layout that provides fun gameplay.
http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
I feel like I'm in a rut when it comes to that, and I need some inspiration... so if anyone has some insight I'd love to hear it.
Well, Being A Musician,
#4023 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.182] on 2005/08/08 22:09:05
you are familar with Boroque technique, right? Inverting a theme, playing it backwards, concetating the beginning and end of the riff, shortening and expanding the meter that it is played, and that sort of thing?
Very artificial approach to creativity, but in the hands of a master it can work beautifully. The same approach can be applied to level design.
When I created BloodGates for the Norway pack, I was in a bit of a rut too, so I looked to some of my favorite levels for inspiration. One of the levels that impressed me the most from the original Id pack was the secret level of episode 3 the Haunted Halls because, despite being short of monsters, the action is quick, the set ups are thorough, and the level is complete in and of its self.
I played it several times and redrew the level on graph paper, and then I remapped it a few times more with a number of variations in the design each time. When I had a design I liked, I created Blood Gates with it.
Process sounds a bit mechanical, but if
you have played the map, does anything about BloodGates remind you of Haunted Halls?
Haven't Played It
#4024 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/08 22:18:05
I'll look for it though. I can't say I'm familiar with the Boroque technique, as I don't really consider myself a musician (nor am I educated as one). So, I don't understand your point too well. :(
I Like The Cut Of Your Gib, Czg
#4025 posted by Kinn [195.92.144.166] on 2005/08/09 05:28:25
There could perhaps be some difficulty for mappers in working with this in the editor, since it would be impossible to maintain several different, overlapping map files at once*, and also a hassle to separate out all the brushes at various detail levels for each compile. Perhaps this could only be a usable option for the final compile before release.
if you use Hammer (or WC even, I think), this should be a non-issue, as you just keep the various LODs in their own Visgroups, and hide which ones you want at compile time.
Yes
#4026 posted by czg [85.93.227.233] on 2005/08/09 06:07:10
That was why I was thinking about it since I use WC myself. I was just expressing pity-support for the rest of the rabble.
Oh, Okay
#4027 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.170] on 2005/08/09 06:58:59
Lunaran has some articles on his site about organizing levels but I think they are oriented towards death match.
This is one way to approach map organization, and this occurs with a lot of Half Life maps in the original game, is build a central confrontation or obstruction in your map and develop the rest of the level as a hub around it.
Head
#4028 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/09 09:17:28
This is one way to approach map organization, and this occurs with a lot of Half Life maps in the original game, is build a central confrontation or obstruction in your map and develop the rest of the level as a hub around it.
This works, definitely but I think level-after-level it would seem obvious or gimmicky. Generally I try to make each room memorable, and put in interesting designs (I mean I've spent how many hours on the tower-hub area, I should be beyond that now). But I'm finding my layouts just lack good scale, and it's not easy to just says "well I'll build bigger!" -- it needs to be thought out well. Everytime I play someone's SP map I think about the little things that contribute to the layout and just how things come together to where - it's not really room/corridor/room to the eye - but essentially parts of it may be just that, but disguised in a nicely flowing layout.
Phait
#4029 posted by wrath [213.112.29.156] on 2005/08/09 09:37:35
But I'm finding my layouts just lack good scale, and it's not easy to just says "well I'll build bigger!" -- it needs to be thought out well.
I'm sure you know this already, but I find that good scale is a very elusive concept, and it's never just about building bigger. Most times you can achieve a good scale by expanding the space in just one or two dimensions, not in all three. Or exaggerating one of them.
You Have
#4030 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 09:52:42
to be a little more careful with the z scale (top down for Id game maps) than the x and y because it is easy to screw up your step placement, like in all of my speed maps, even the one I actually like.
Headthump
#4031 posted by wrath [213.112.29.156] on 2005/08/09 10:06:15
<quote>step placement</quote>
As in "stairs"?
(cause that kinda goes without saying. I was talking more about the space itself, not the features in the space. although of course, they too can be exaggerated in one or more dimensions, should the need arise.)
#4032 posted by wrath [213.112.29.156] on 2005/08/09 10:06:49
fuck
Z Scale
#4033 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/09 10:07:59
Isn't that forward/backward or "through"? In Worldcraft in the viewpoints, XY is it top, YZ is side, and XZ is front. Whatever really :P
My biggest priorities in layout is pretty much good connection and flow, with some backtracking and not-always-obvious (but not plain confusing) progression. I just can't seem to get past boring room-by-room/floor-by-floor layouts.
True, Too
#4034 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 10:08:09
about how hub design can become repetitive. If you have played Amagon, how that first episode (tech based) is organized can be beneficial to study.
The first level is devided into two sections, a hub centered around a spiral stair case that goes off in three directions at different levels for the first half, and the other is a terrain area with small buildings that eventually come back to the hub.
The second level is organized around two canals,
The third is a one level base area sorrounded by sprawling tunnels and caverns,
The last is almost entirely an over and under interior design seperated into three sections with excalating game play as you move through them.
You just need to examine packs like these and you'll be able to undestand their broader patters.
If you don't have Amagon, check out Mexx 10, Beyond Belief, and, of course, ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/id...
which is the essense of smoothly developed variation.
Wrath
#4035 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 10:11:16
yeap, but I've made the mistake so often, I thought a little reminder couldn't hurt.
Using '' instead, usually works for me.
Phait,
#4036 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 10:15:19
I see what you mean. X/Y shows the top view, but the Z plane is what is extended into when you manipulate the height of the objects.
Using '' instead, usually works for me.
The '' should contain *<*i*>*. See if THAT works
Well,
#4037 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 10:31:17
I just can't seem to get past boring room-by-room/floor-by-floor layouts.
I almost always start with exterior layout first and build the interior sections around the exterior design. Sprawling canals and canyons are
things that I like to see in both nature and level design (helps that I have a passion for hiking and live near some nice places for it).
Build what you you like to see in games and design the game play you would like to subject the player to around it.
Of course, that may be easier said than done. How good are your modeling skills? Your basic problem may not be that you are having a hard time getting out of a pattern corridor -- room -- corridor design, but you are having a hard time building the structures you have in mind
(continued)
If
#4038 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.230] on 2005/08/09 10:42:57
that is the case, then you should go back over some fundamental brush manipulation technique; here is my recommendation,
1. get some prefabs from this site: http://prefabs.gamedesign.net/
There are some nice heliocopter and tank designs that I really like here.
2. Get a bunch of the prefabs that you find most appealing, and
3. place one in your editor, seperate all of the brushes,
4. rebuild each one of the brushes from scratch.
5. put the brushes back together to reform the original design.
6. repeat, wash and rinse until you get the hang of it.
Honestly, there is no reason why you should not be able to create anything you have in mind
in your editor.
.FTK
#4039 posted by Zwiffle [69.210.34.26] on 2005/08/09 12:02:42
I'm trying to convert all the McGee Alice tex into a .wad for q1 mapping purposes, but all of the .tex are in .ftk format and I cannot open them in any programs I have, including Texmex or Photoshop. I know Biff and Lun have somehow converted them into a workable format, so I'm wondering if there's a program that can open this extension or some other technique I need to do? Thx for any help.
Prefabs More Like Prefags
#4040 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2005/08/09 15:47:02
there are alot of awful prefabs on that site, headthump. its quite sad.
example: A lot of pipes in a room
Yeah,
#4041 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.190] on 2005/08/09 18:02:22
the quality varies greatly.
That's why I pointed to the tanks and copters, some are good, esp. the copter used in the Lazarus pack for Quake2 that came from the gamedesign site.
Head
#4042 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/09 18:34:20
The first level is devided into two sections, a hub centered around a spiral stair case that goes off in three directions at different levels for the first half
That sounds just like map 2 that I've been working on, actually - spiral staircase/hub. Except inside the column, is a plat the player will access later to another area of the map.
Detail Brushes In Quake?
#4043 posted by grahf [65.188.219.115] on 2005/08/10 09:36:26
regarding czg's post... there's an easier way to do it. There in fact are q1 compilers that support hint and detail:
http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/dl...
http://developer.chaoticbox.com/fi...
I suspect the tools as they are would not suit your purposes for various reasons (low limits on most variables, mac-only), but the code is there.
Czg
#4044 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.63.5] on 2005/08/12 04:46:04
Awesome idea with the compile stuff, dunno if its doable within the Q1 BSP framework, but it'd be sweet if you could do stuff like that.
As for editing and maintaining multiple maps... I don't see why you'd need to. If you were going to haxx0r the qbsp etc tools anyways, you could just use entities in your editor to control what was detail and what was part of the core bsp.
You could just invent a new brush entity or 2 (for example, func_detail or whatever floats your boat), tell QBSP to ignore those brushes during the first pass, and then compile them in the final stage... at least, I think that'd work.
That way, you can see every brush in the editor, and also clearly see what is base map geometry and what is detail. The brush ents (eg func_detail) could just be compiled as normal geometry on top of the core BSP, so by the time the other tools like light get a hold of the BSP, its all just standard geometry.
Czg/frib:
#4045 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/12 12:30:15
Like i said in #tf, this all sounds very rube goldberg. For all that effort it would take to add these crazy hacks, it seems like it would be better to just support detail/hint in the compiler, and use existing detail/hint support in radiant.
Furthermore, if we're not satisfied with the q1 bsp format, it seems like a lot more would be gained by supporting q3bsp in more engines. Then we get the compiler and editor for free.
Metl
#4046 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.63.5] on 2005/08/12 22:19:32
Sure. What you said. : )
As far as I understand it though (and I don't understand more than a fraction of one percent of it all), it really isn't as simple as adding Q3 style detail support to the Q1 BSP format/tools. (That's just what I got from discussing the issue with programmers at work, who understand the tools/engine reasonably well).
However, as crazy/convoluted as it may be, czg's proposed method would possibly be feasible and would allow you to achieve at least something remotely like the desired result within the current engine/tools.
Of course, I could be wrong on both counts.
By the way... Q3 source code within a week? Does that include compile utilities, or do we already have that source? *shrug* maybe it would shed some light on the situation.
Phait
#4047 posted by R.P.G. [24.167.137.32] on 2005/08/13 08:55:28
Layouts and their scales are entirely over rated. In DM they are very important--no doubt about it. But there are so many SP maps that are linear room-corridor-room layouts that it's not worth fretting about. Obviously, certain themes will not work as well with linear layouts (space ships compared with an artificial tunnel). People really don't pay much attention to the overall layout as long as navigation is straight forward and the map looks nice, and so far you're not having any sort of serious problem with your aesthetics.
The scale of the rooms and their details and their relative scale to each other--now that's important. However, to some extent it depends on your own personal style, and the style of the game--Q3 is known for very wide hallways, and Q1SP can work with either wide or narrow spaces.
I still maintain that one of the most important parts of improvement is to just release stuff.
Flames Sync
#4048 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.156] on 2005/08/13 11:31:29
I have a line of torches that are in view all at once (leading away from the player). Is there a way to un-sync them as they look a little 'unreal' at the moment? I suppose this will involve setting them to begin their existance at different times to ensure they display different frames visually?
I seem to remember reading something about this but now cannot find the reference.
Mike:
#4049 posted by metlslime [67.113.31.3] on 2005/08/13 12:17:42
flames are already set to NOT sync in the mdl file. Not sure why you're seeing them all sync up, other than bad luck.
Metslime
#4050 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.156] on 2005/08/13 14:07:06
Thanks, yes I can see the flag now and it is set to random. The torch is ID's original but it also happens to a candle.mdl I have nicked from somewhere(?) - it is not random even though the flag is set.
Mmmm, what now?
RPG
#4051 posted by . [68.74.217.74] on 2005/08/13 14:26:39
That is some encouraging insight that helps me see it from a different perspective. Thanks.
I think for me it's inherently challenging to create a believable environment with Quake's textures. Quake wasn't quite suited towards the little details that help make an area realistic -- the best thing you can do is work with the texture sizes as they are and really let that influence how you build. I was running through Jago's Araivo thinking about that, how the textures fit so well over practically everything. It feels so solid.
But I find so many SP maps while they play nice and look great, alot of them are just brush-spooging - while they may be touted as a particular environment, they come off more as just... cool brush work on a large scale. Maybe that's just me. My point is, trying to create something more practical/real in Quake while possible - isn't necessarily the best way to map in Quake (with default tex sets), and trying to create interesting progression from there makes it that much harder.
On the other hand I just woke up so maybe what I said isn't very coherent.
Phait
#4052 posted by Jago [85.76.178.7] on 2005/08/13 15:28:55
Thanks :)
Mike
#4053 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/13 15:55:44
check out the braziers in Chapters, particularly the ones up the steps in chapter_necros; we had the same bloody problem >_<
I swear, I ticked the Sync/Rand box in qME. And checked it later. And double checked it again. Grrr.
Flame Sync.
#4054 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.156] on 2005/08/14 07:31:23
I tried Fitzquake & GLQuake, and both are sync'd.
Darkplaces is unsync'd, which is what I want but there are other things that I don't want.
I also tried Tremor but that has a nifty 'flare' effect so not what I want although it looks quite good.
So presumably there is some code in DP that takes note of the .mdl random flag, which is being ignored by GLQ and FQ?
Did something get lost between original software Quake and all of the follow-up engines prior to DP?
I'm a bit confused. I certainly can't leave this line of torches as they are: the synconisation draws the eye and hypnotises you into submission!
Bugger!! The map's no masterpiece but bugger anyway.
Torches And Sound
#4055 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.156] on 2005/08/14 10:48:01
On the subject of torches - if there are a lot of torches in a small area, are they all playing the individual fire sound via FireAmbient() or does the engine 'know' that it only needs to play one because all are within earshot?
If they are all being played, is there any advantage to reducing the number that are being played?
We are talking of 20+ torches in a 250 x 250 grid, plus monsters, doors, ammo, health, weapons, player etc; all of which have the potential to make sounds.
If You
#4056 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.61] on 2005/08/14 11:00:07
wish and can upload a small zip that exhibits this problem in GLQ, I can take a look at it. I don't know what could be wrong though, but maybe I can spot something.
Ditto...
#4057 posted by metlslime [64.165.213.192] on 2005/08/14 12:43:08
if it's a fitzquake bug i'm interested in fixing it.
P.S. have you tried it in winquake?
Torch_test
#4058 posted by Mike Woodham [217.44.62.156] on 2005/08/14 14:07:31
Thanks aguirRe, I have sent you an e-mail with a sample map showing the problem.
Don't panic, the file is only 9K.
Metlslime
#4059 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.133.39] on 2005/08/15 05:22:14
Yes, same effect in WinQuake.
Small map e-mailed to you showing a row of torches.
A Sympathetic Post
#4060 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/08/15 09:13:45
hi.
Phait:
Who was it that said it that you aren't supposed to try to do too realistic stuff in quake because once you start looking at it, everything's out of proportion in the quake universe. Compare the rocket launcher model on the ground to the guy and see that it's probably as tall as him. The buttons are huge. Etc etc.
Quake is like a comic made with heavy wide brush strokes. There's certain things that are functional in that style and some that are not. Probably an almost infinite set of working styles out of the infinite set of all styles.
I think the spaceship cockpit and other stuff you've shown in screenshots look really good but in general they are really lying on the edge - you can't go smaller or more detailed from there. Then you'd have to map for a completely different game and engine etc...
Don't worry too much. Maybe you could use some vacation from mapping or even computers on the whole. Like I did.
Your site seems a bit messed right now... Don't tell me you've deleted everything and started from scratch. Please don't do it! Release stuff and don't worry too much about the evil-sayers. There will always be those and like rpg said maybe you have to release stuff too to learn and not just ponder on your own for too long.
Keep the faith. (pun intended)
Dark Grey Rock
#4061 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/08/15 10:00:40
http://community.webshots.com/phot...
Hint where to get some remotely similar texture? (Not the one from lunsp1 / lundead.wad). I'm willing to do some porting. Someone mentioned tribes textures?
I honestly recommend all mappers... or just anyone visiting northern Sweden to check out Storforsen (in Bredsel, near Älvsby, south of Jokkmokk).
Gutta cavat lapidem
Is The One In RPGDM1 Similar To What You Want?
#4062 posted by R.P.G. [24.167.137.32] on 2005/08/15 10:32:21
http://rpg.spawnpoint.org/images/m...
Bamb
#4063 posted by . [68.77.197.75] on 2005/08/15 15:15:42
Yeah well I've learned this:
you can't build maps without a solid concept and layout. My layouts were completely spontaneous and I hoped for the best. Then I get to building and realize it sucks and well... with the recent inspiration and kick-in-the-face that is RPG's 'and all that could have been', I'm starting over and putting some more thought into this.
The ironic thing is RPG probably built it spontaneously. Am I right RPG?
Phait
#4064 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/15 16:47:01
DO NOT start over from scratch. One valuable skill you will learn as a mapper is to rework the parts of the map you are not satisfied with until they look good and fit together. Having layout problems? Rip out a part, rework it and put it to use elsewhere in the map. Rince and repeat. Yeah, it seems "so much easier" to just start over but 1) you are less likely to finish the map and 2) you will learn A LOT by reworking your old map.
Well
#4065 posted by . [68.77.197.75] on 2005/08/15 17:06:12
I think this is such a subjective issue as well. Like when I stated you can't build a map without a good, well thought out layout and progression. Not everyone would agree with that. But it seems to work better that way with me.
I feel like, reworking is more work. When you have a blank canvas, so-to-speak - it's easier to see things come together - rather than this work I'm dissatisfied with. Of course I am bound to hit the wall again, and what am I gonna do - start over again? I'd hope not.
So I see where you're coming from, but I also feel if I put more thought into this, it'll show - and I'll be more satisfied as I build. For me, once I have a layout - the paths are there and it's easy for me to build along it. Whereas without something predefined, I think "what next?" and then I take 2 weeks off thinking about it.
Phait
#4066 posted by R.P.G. [24.167.137.32] on 2005/08/15 17:21:48
The main central area that the player keeps coming back to--including the outdoor area and the indoor corridors at the silver key door--were a copy of the incomplete layout I made for the original RPGSP2, which died from QBSP errors when I tried to make the terrain out of tetrahedrons. (Little known fact: it was IKBase, and featured yet another Shambler reference.) The rest of the layout (i.e. inserting a room at each branch of the layout) was built spontaneously.
For serious, layouts are over-rated. After I finished RPGSP1, I built several DM maps and didn't release them because I thought they had dodgy layouts, but when I went back and looked at them a few months ago I didn't think they were that bad.
You act like you might finally make a perfect map--one you're totally satisfied with. It isn't going to happen. People are so superficial that bad layouts really don't make that much of a difference; even to a lot of the people on this message board. And despite all this self-deprecation from you, we still have absolutely no evidence that your SP layouts are bad in the slightest.
Precisely
#4067 posted by R.P.G. [24.167.137.32] on 2005/08/15 17:25:51
once I have a layout - the paths are there and it's easy for me to build along it. Whereas without something predefined, I think "what next?" and then I take 2 weeks off thinking about it.
Planning out layouts and rooms beforehand is the best way to map. RPGSP1 took 9 months to build because I didn't plan it well. But that's not to say you can't plan out the rest of the map around what you already built.
RPG
#4068 posted by . [68.77.197.75] on 2005/08/15 17:30:22
Yeah I agree, you can build along side the plans. This is quite inevitable and happens when I build as well.
I'm just worried about putting out shitty maps that look good but play like shit. That's about it.
Maybe You Could Produce Something
#4069 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.124] on 2005/08/15 18:00:59
small first; on the lines of an e3m2 The Vault of Zin, or e1m6 first. Take several days to get it just right and release it. It beats the hell out obsessing over the big picture.
Head
#4070 posted by . [68.77.197.75] on 2005/08/15 19:59:42
I've got plans for medium-sized maps, but they require entirely new texture sets. I actually can't wait to get around to that but I've got to get this done first.
I just drew a new layout for map 1. While it retains the general idea and progression of the map that I've worked in, it now has a more interesting layout and start-area. I feel reworking it now has definitely been worth it. I'm more sure of this layout than the original.
More Small/medium Maps Would Be Nice!
#4071 posted by mwh [82.33.185.193] on 2005/08/16 05:07:34
Maybe everyone has Kinn-envy :)
#4072 posted by czg [85.93.227.233] on 2005/08/16 05:28:25
The only thing envyable about Kinn is how he can be so fat and still manage to type on a standard keyboard.
Aguire!
#4073 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/16 11:05:28
I was wondering if there is a way to get the -sunlight function not to have zero falloff...
I am using -sunlight in my map, and it produces really nice and crisp shadows on the ground -- which is great. But I also have skylights that are ~1024 (or more) units from the floor... and the bright spot on the floor looks a bit silly to be honest :/
I want to release this map during qexpo, and if I can't get this problem worked out I'll just go for the regular "put lots of lights near the sky and hope for the best" technique :)
Aguire!
#4074 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/16 11:06:15
I was wondering if there is a way to get the -sunlight function not to have zero falloff...
I am using -sunlight in my map, and it produces really nice and crisp shadows on the ground -- which is great. But I also have skylights that are ~1024 (or more) units from the floor... and the bright spot on the floor looks a bit silly to be honest :/
I want to release this map during qexpo, and if I can't get this problem worked out I'll just go for the regular "put lots of lights near the sky and hope for the best" technique -- but I don't really want to do that! :)
Argh
#4075 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/16 11:08:51
oops :/
So What You're Saying
#4076 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/08/16 12:03:39
...is that you don't actually want sunlight.
Skylight/sunlight
#4077 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.133.39] on 2005/08/16 12:51:43
Try Yaw and Pitch to make sure the sunlight doesn't shine straight down.
or
Try anti-lights in the area where you don't want full sunlight.
Just...
#4078 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/16 12:52:52
stretch the sky brush up like 512 and put a bright point light inside it near the top.
Thanks!
#4079 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/16 14:13:39
i'll try all of those things when i get back from dinner. in short, i like the cool shadows that sunlight makes, but not the ugly unrealistic stuff it can also produce!
Inertia
#4080 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.133.39] on 2005/08/16 14:19:16
Don't forget -light and -sunlight2.
Hmm
#4081 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.44] on 2005/08/16 15:53:36
I didn't understand the question, really. What is causing the "bright spot" on the ground? If you're using sunlight, you shouldn't also use intense point lights as that would defeat the purpose of the sunlight.
You can however add other ambient point lights around to make the outdoor lighting more interesting, but these should be low-intensity and with low wait values (e.g. 0.01).
You can also try using the _anglesense key in worldspawn (only affects sunlight then) with lower values than 0.5. This will reduce the angle attenuation and create a more intense sunlight, especially on vertical walls.
If you then lower the intensity of the sunlight to compensate, the difference in light levels between the ground and the walls will be smaller. If that was what you wanted ...
Oh
#4082 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/16 19:15:21
So for a hazy sun effect I could have a high _anglesense value?
Aguire
#4083 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/16 19:57:45
what i wanted was for the sunlight to be more natural, in other words, not make a straight shaft of light straight down with no falloff whatsoever..
HOWEVER... that method is great for creating detail on the floor, for example, above ceiling fans or something... but not in great big open (and tall) areas where it just looks silly having a circle of light on the floor. anyway sunlight2 seems to do the trick.. thanks
Inertia:
#4084 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/16 23:35:20
Sunlight falloff on earth over distances of a few hundred feet is imperceptible. So why is not having falloff "unnatural?"
RPG
#4085 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.150] on 2005/08/17 01:44:59
I'm not sure what you mean by "hazy" here, but experimenting with the _anglesense value in sunlight can offer very interesting outdoor effects. A low value makes individual brush faces harder to spot as the junctions tend to disappear.
A high value will really pronounce the brushwork, creating an almost surreal impression of a "silky" material. Maybe not the most realistic variant, but it definitely offers an interesting look.
Entity or global _anglesense values can also be used for different effects.
Metl
#4086 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/17 02:00:05
not having falloff means that the light continues in the same shape as it was cast, forever
this is not realistic for obvious reasons, and doubly so when coming from the sky!
Inertia
#4087 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.150] on 2005/08/17 02:02:02
As metl said, having falloff on sunlight isn't realistic as the sun is a strong point light very far away.
If you have an outdoor area in a map, try values like -sunlight 200 -sunmangle 45,-75 sunlight3 80. This creates a pretty sunny feeling and the high pitch -75 angle is good for vertical maps, i.e. not so wide open areas under the sky.
For open areas, you can try lower pitches, like -60 or even -30, which will create a more sunset/sunrise atmosphere. Low sunlight intensities can be used for "moonlight".
The yaw angle of 45 degrees helps avoiding light shining along axial walls and creates more interesting shadows.
Experiment some and see what looks good in your map. If you use the -nolight option, trying out different outdoor lighting combinations is fast, even in big maps.
Aguire
#4088 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/17 02:06:17
thanks, will check it asap! :)
Okay....
#4089 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/08/17 02:43:37
i confronted inertia in IRC and it turns out what he was trying to say is he wants radiosity, becuase it looks unnatural for light not to bounce around the room.
Metl
#4090 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/17 02:45:25
haha :) you got me!
Questions For AguirRe About Light
#4091 posted by czg [85.93.227.233] on 2005/08/17 02:50:34
I hate using features of anything that I don't understand how work. So:
What exactly does the -gate # switch do? It's barely mentioned in the changelog in the readme, so I have no idea what it does. It says default is 0.0, reccomended value is 1. Does it accept 0.5? 1.5? What would it do then? Please explain more about this.
The second sunlight; Does this mean that if the check for a sky surface in the direction of the sunlight angle from a point fails, it will check in several directions in a cone around the sunlight angle and see if it hits a sky surface that way?
Are checks for sunlight performed on every surface in the map?
Light currently says it will perform "8G casts" on my map. Is there a limit ever to how many casts can be performed?
Otherwise thanks for the nice tools. I was toying around one day on converting them to Java, but then I decided not to.
Answers For Czg About Light
#4092 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.170] on 2005/08/17 07:35:59
Long Post! First a small dictionary:
oversampling the -extra/-extra4 options that make shadows more smooth. -extra means 2x2 grid (four times slower) and -extra4 is 4x4 (16 times slower)
surface point: each face has a discreet grid of these points where the light levels are calculated, oversampling means more points
raytracing: testing if a straight line can be drawn between the current surf point and light source without any brushwork in between
cast: one of the straight lines between the surf point and light source
The Fade Gate is used to reduce the often enormous amount of raytracing that is done for all casts. It's done by first checking how much light that will actually reach one surf point with regards to distance attenuation etc for the current cast.
If the amount is smaller than the gate level (default 1.0 light units when enabled, any float will do), the raytracing for this cast will be omitted. This can (and often does) save huge amounts of processing time.
The visible effects are extremely hard to spot, I actually haven't found any case yet. The difference is measurable as a faint random noise pattern, but not visible. It's e.g. nothing like the digital distortion of jagged shadow edges.
Of course, if you increase the gate level, more light will be missing and finally you'll be able to see it. The default level of 1 is usually good. One of the few maps I can remember that needed a lower gate value (0.25) was pushcoag.
The 2nd sunlight just checks if any skybrush is visible in any direction from the current surf point. If so, it will get the sunlight2/3 level if not already bright enough. Sunlight3 is recommended as it also uses a vertical angular attenuation, i.e. the light is omnidirectional, but still comes from above.
The raytracing for sunlight is done for all surf points in the map (as it's non-attenuated), so its impact can be severe in higher oversampling levels. Higher level also means more suns for 2nd sunlight.
The # casts is basically a product of the total amount of surf points and the total amount of light sources. The surf points depend on the total size of all faces and the current oversampling level.
Since it's usually a very big number, the final calculation is made in 32-bit float precision to avoid overflow. The biggest value I've seen in a released map was about 25G casts, I think it was gmsp3.
The # of casts or even the size of light data in a map is probably more restricted by other bsp limits. It's e.g. relatively easy to produce a map with 10-20 MB vis data, but having more than 1 MB light data is unusual. The current limit is 4 MB.
Java eh? I wonder how RVis would perform then ... ;)
Java Would Actually Be Kinda Cool
#4093 posted by grahf [24.51.109.238] on 2005/08/17 07:56:46
then I could run your lovely tools on random non-windows platforms.
Thanks
#4094 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/08/17 08:24:58
That clears up some things, especially the fade gate thing.
I was thinking about porting Light to java purely because I suck at writing C, and it'd be cool if I could add my own functionality (read: bloat) to it.
Hrimfaxi
#4095 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/08/17 14:15:39
I have tried to use the vermis from lost chapters in one of my maps.
It looks like the vermis dosn't respond to the flags 'delay spawn'. Since it is a void map the vermis is visible all over the map.
Is this a bug or haven't you given the vermis the spawn- delay/silent/alert flags?
Hi, sorry for taking ridiculously long to respond... the WoW bug still has a hold of me these day. :P
anyway, to answer your question there is no spawning functions for the vermis. the orignal coiling thing was made for the situation you're describing, but we never really planned on having the monster be totally exposed and not hidden away in a little pit or somesuch before activation.
i'm planning on uploading a small 'update' to the chapters pak for qexpo and if you still want the feature, i can attempt to code in some type of spawning stuff for it in the update.
Oh I'm Not Forgotten 8-)
#4096 posted by Hrimfaxi [83.92.1.117] on 2005/08/17 14:59:17
the orignal coiling thing was made for the situation you're describing,
OK! Just as I thought.
I was planning to use the void map as a 'boss map' with the Lost Chapter map I'm releasing tomorrow, so it will be a little to late to do anything about it now.
I don't know if I will use the void map in a Lost Chapter pack in the future, so thanks for the offer but I'm not sure I need it anymore!
AguiRre
#4097 posted by . [70.224.248.16] on 2005/08/17 22:49:53
I tried your suggested default settings for sunlight as recommended to inertia, I must've done it right (light entity with 0 brightness and the keys/values added). Does it look decent?
- http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
- http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
I Can't Say
#4098 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.27] on 2005/08/18 03:12:18
the pics are very dark ...
Ahhh
#4099 posted by . [70.224.248.16] on 2005/08/18 09:54:55
The joys of different gammas. Eh nevermind about it ;)
Flames Sync Revisited
#4100 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.201] on 2005/08/18 13:59:19
I might have found the cause and fix for the synchronized flame animations. After checking in DP how it's handled there, the problem seems to be that lights are static ents and therefore aren't affected by the mdl sync flag.
I've just put in a simple hack to randomize the starting pose and it seems to work in both Win/GLQuake. Now Mike's and Chapter's torch rows look better.
Weird...
#4101 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/18 14:34:21
since the flag is in the model data and not in the quakec, it seems that from the beginning they intended it to be handled on the client-side. So this is just one of those cases where id screwed up?
Maybe
#4102 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.221] on 2005/08/18 15:54:49
they didn't have separate static ents from the beginning and then forgot about it. It's pretty hard to notice if the torches aren't lined up close.
RtCW Mapping Questions
#4103 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/20 15:30:15
I am sure some of you have mapped for RtCW so I have some questions to all of you:
1) I have unpacked models/mapobjects from pak0.pk3 and sp_pak1.pk3 and can now load the models inside Radiant. However, some of the dirs for the objects (mapobjects/bush, mapobjects/clipboard, mapobjects/lion to name a few) only contain textures and no model file, where are they?
2) Say I added a mapobjects/bodyparts/helbody.mdc into my map as a misc/model, how can I choose which skin is used on the model? By default, hel_body1.jpg is being used, how do I make the model use lop_body1.jpg instead?
Also
#4104 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/20 15:36:26
As of right now, my models/mapobjects dir is 27.5 mb in size, I am thinking this is too small and I am missing something?
Fcuk
#4105 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/20 17:31:02
I need this answered ASAP:
how do i make 45 degree angles on walls in which the player does NOT get stuck on the edges??
im talking something like this:
www.qwplayers.org/inertia/problem1...
www.qwplayers.org/inertia/problem2...
I Mean These
#4106 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/20 17:31:28
http://www.qwplayers.org/inertia/p...
http://www.qwplayers.org/inertia/p...
Inertia
#4107 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/20 17:40:40
1) Make sure you're using aguiRre's latest QBSP.
2) If that doesn't solve the problem, merge the angled wall and its supporting right-angled walls into a single brush.
The problem occurs when QBSP grows the brushes to create the clipping hulls, and QBSP grows the angled brush incorreclty so it extends past the right-angled wall and creates an invisible wall that players get caught on. There's a command in Tyrann's engine that lets you see the clipping hulls, and there's also a command in aguiRre's QBSP that lets you view this clipping hull in normal Quake.
Hopefully this makes sense since I just had some gin and a Sam Adams.
Sorry
#4108 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/20 17:43:36
my picture was wrong in shot #1
here's a corrected version (repalced the old file):
http://www.qwplayers.org/inertia/p...
and am using aguire's latest treeqbsp and txqbsps, each gives me these results
Inertia...
#4109 posted by . [70.224.196.82] on 2005/08/20 18:30:42
Not sure, but - is the player going to be able to go behind that wall? I mean as you have it built, you can go on the outside and the inside. If that isn't the case, why not just make a brush and clip it at 45 degree angle? Poor example but you may get the idea (# = solid)
___
|##\
|###|
Inertia
#4110 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2005/08/20 19:13:27
I don't think this can be solved in qbsp, I think it's an engine bug. I think they had a fix in QuakeForge for a short while, but it had other side effects which made some levels unplayable. I don't understand the engine side of it fully.
Ah
#4111 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/20 20:16:52
i see that it is a rediculously complex issue! anyway i found workarounds using external clip brushes and other humdickery, but i aprpeciate all the help i got anyway.
#4112 posted by [84.204.107.80] on 2005/08/20 21:43:25
inert: clip clip it
I Just Want To Say
#4113 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.98] on 2005/08/21 00:43:50
I enjoyed inert's unhappy guy immensely.
Pushplay
#4114 posted by inertia [24.164.69.31] on 2005/08/21 01:32:42
clarify?
More On RtCW
#4115 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/21 06:00:24
I have found a whole lot more map models in WolfToolsSDK.zip so this part is getting better. However, there are still many mapobject dirs that have only the model file (textures missing) or only have the texture and not the model. I am puzzled.
It Could Be A Matter Like In Quake 3
#4116 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.163] on 2005/08/21 07:41:48
that there is one grey marble like seamless texture used to wrap around a generic 'statue' model. To save space the internal reference for the models may be to one lonesome texture you just have not spotted yet. I'm guessing since I don't have WolfToolsSDK installed, but I remember noticing that in a game pack that came with the GTKRadiant install before.
Toot
#4117 posted by Shallow [84.12.172.29] on 2005/08/21 10:00:07
I think there are a few RTCW models that don't show up correctly in the editor but do in game. I can't remember if the models' shader files are listed in shaderlist.txt by default, adding it might clear up a few missing textures if it isn't. Or it might not but trying won't hurt :)
there are still many mapobject dirs that have only the model file (textures missing)
Some models may have shaders which point to textures stored somewhere other than the model's directory. Or they might just be broken unused content that got included accidentally.
or only have the texture and not the model.
Like I said before, static mapmodels get baked into the BSP when the map is compiled and are loaded from there not the model file at runtime, thus there was no need to include all the models with the game. Alternatively, some folders might just be textures that are referenced by models in other folders.
There's a fair amount of usable custom models that have been made as well, hunt around for those. Custom models made for Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory will generally work in RTCW as well, although you may need to rewrite the shader.
Clarification
#4118 posted by pushplay [68.148.157.98] on 2005/08/21 16:46:24
Frum yur drauing.
1930s House Textures
#4119 posted by . [70.224.196.82] on 2005/08/21 22:49:46
Might I be missing anything? So far I've got about 8 or 9 thumbnails sketched for interior wall designs, and with variations it comes out to about 27 - for interior walls. Here's the full list though:
Interior Walls:
wallpaper, concrete, panels (wood), tile
Exterior Walls:
wood, concrete, brick
Interior Floors:
concrete, wood, tile, carpet
Materials:
wood, stone, metal, porcelain/glass (think toilets/bathtubs
Furniture:
chairs, couches, stools, file cabinet, cupboard, cabinets, dressers, bed, shelves, armoire, bookshelves, desk
Outside:
grass, earth, mud, road, sidewalk, rock-brick, sky, water, trees, foliage, stonebeds, gravel, floral
Miscellaneous:
sewer covers, typewriter, clocks, phone, stove, fridge, phonograph, lamps, lights/sconces, picture frames, broken mirros, bathtub, sink, roofs, windows, doors
Um
#4120 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/21 23:34:27
Don't you have a map in the works already? It's bad to derail your mapping progress... like reading more than one novel at the same time!
Nope
#4121 posted by . [69.217.52.67] on 2005/08/21 23:53:35
#4122 posted by Mindcrime [69.37.18.118] on 2005/08/22 02:40:29
You forgot the potty!
Nope
#4123 posted by . [69.217.52.67] on 2005/08/22 02:47:57
It's on the list just under materials. I actually have it written down, but not under miscellaneous on the list here :P
Qick Confirmation
#4124 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/23 19:31:34
Hunk_Alloc: failed on 1346914400 bytes means a map is too big to load, right? The solution is adding...what to the command line? -heapsize? For a mac G4 powerbook with 512 megs of ram. I'm assuming FitzQuake is the engine being used.
Mac Powerbook?
#4125 posted by grahf [24.51.109.238] on 2005/08/23 20:11:47
There is no fitzquake for mac os x I don't think, unless metl's been keeping something from us. It would have to be either pOx's builds (macglquake.sourceforge.net) or the Cocoa version from fruitz of dojo (www.fruitz-of-dojo.de). I am skilled in the ways of Macness....
But as far as I know, -heapsize should work the same there as it would on any pc engine. You might try increasing -zone also, to 8192 or so.
Grahf
#4126 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/23 20:15:02
Thanks. Despite being scottish, I know this -><- much about Macs. And it shows >_<
FQ Mac
#4127 posted by . [69.217.53.214] on 2005/08/23 20:38:51
Would be nice. The gamma is wanked on my Mac port.
Grahf / Powerbook
#4128 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/23 20:39:42
What is this about quake on osx? I want to get a fuhquake port working on my powerbook... if anyone knows whats up with that, let me know!
/me wants to watch demos of people playing my map ;)
Uhoh, I Just Nominated Myself For Macquake Tech Support
#4129 posted by grahf [24.51.109.238] on 2005/08/23 21:25:27
phait: you mean the brightness slider in the options and the console command "gamma" don't work for you? which macglquake build are you using? what gfx card you got? Perhaps darkplaces would solve that, see below...
inertia: fuhquake, is that some quakeworld thing? Not likely I recon. But there are several normal quakeworld builds, what's the diff?
There is Darkplaces for mac actually, but you have to download (hehe) Nexiuz to get it. Open up the Nexiuz Mac application package (right or ctrl click, show package contents), browse to the "MacOS" directory in there, and pull the "darkplaces-sdl" file into your quake dir and run it from the commandline.
To take it a step further, look in the "sources" directory of the nexuiz install, there should be an application package called "darkplaces." Put the "MacOS" directory from Mac Nexuiz (it should have libvorbis and libjpeg as well as darkplaces-sdl) into the "Contents" directory of the Darkplaces app package. Now put your new beefed up Darkplaces package into the proper quake base directory, and wee! It runs just by doubleclicking now, no Terminal access need! Works exactly the same as PC Darkplaces as far as I can tell. Downside: As far as I know, you would still have to run it through the cmdline if you wanted to pass it cmdline options.
You could compile your own Mac Darkplaces apparently, Lordhavoc told me there are directions on the nexuiz forums, but why would you want to do that when this is so much easier?
Grahf
#4130 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/23 21:33:56
fuhquake is a very enhanced version of qwcl.exe. I could never go back!
Hall-of-mirror With No Brush Errors...
#4131 posted by . [69.217.53.214] on 2005/08/23 21:34:24
Grahf -- the slider works, but maybe it's just my monitor, it is a Powerbook after all - but I don't get decent contrast. My PC's Samsung, on the other hand... (despite it's 'negative' black instead of true black)
Hall-of-mirrors...
I'm working on some terrain and there is a HOM patch up in the sky for some reason. Worldcraft reports no invalid solid errors and it compiles without error. What might be causing this? I'll prob. just have to redo a few brushes up there, but I'm curious why it happens.
Crosshair pointing at it: http://www.phait-accompli.com/q/s4...
PHAIT
#4132 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/23 21:40:01
IT LOOKS FINE KEEP MAPPING
;<
#4133 posted by grahf [24.51.109.238] on 2005/08/23 21:47:21
you might try idgamma, phait. it's a tiny pak2.pak file that replaces the quake palette with slightly more vivid colors.
Re: Terrain HOM
#4134 posted by . [69.217.53.214] on 2005/08/23 22:06:08
Oddly enough, after building another terrain wall - the HOM disappeared.
#4135 posted by grahf [24.51.109.238] on 2005/08/23 22:34:21
Not that surprising actually. It was probably some semi-fuckup of qbsp's/vis's leafs/nodes/portals, and when you added more stuff. the bsp tree changed, and the problem went away.
Kell
#4136 posted by mwh [82.33.185.193] on 2005/08/24 01:33:49
I get a message like that when I try to play lost chapters on my ibook using the fruitz-of-dojo build. Using the macglquake.sf.net build works OK, though. I haven't tried to dig further -- but I don't think it's a matter of insufficient RAM, why would quake be try to allocate slightly more than a gig in one go?
Mac Quake
#4137 posted by . [69.217.53.214] on 2005/08/24 01:37:38
I've generally had no problems running addons, including Lost Chapters. The only problem I've found is that with my custom menu and HUD graphics PAK, which works fine on PC WinQuake, GLQuake, FitzQuake -- won't work on Mac Quake -- it says not enough RAM allocated.
HOMs
#4138 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/08/24 08:15:26
I still have no idea why they appear/disappear when I add/remove some brushes in completely different areas. Is there any obvious cause of them or is it a mystery that depends only on quake/compiler choice?
Phait
#4139 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/24 09:22:23
I know it went away, but if it happens again, try breaking up the sky brush into other smaller brushes where their vertices perfectly match up with the vertices of your terrain. I've found that this minimizes those HOMs.
HOMs
#4140 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2005/08/24 17:23:16
Make sure you're using aguirRe's latest qbsp compiler. If that doesn't work try mine. If that doesn't work, you'll probably have to resort to playing games with the surrounding brushwork.
RPG
#4141 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/24 17:45:33
that method creates lots of lame breaks in the sky texture, doesnt it?
Inertia
#4142 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/24 17:51:45
Only if you use antiquated engines like glquake.exe or Build. But in that instance it looks nasty anyway, so you probably won't care.
Yeah...
#4143 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/24 22:28:47
if you're not using a gl port that fixes the sky rendering, woe unto you.
FrogBot
#4144 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.122] on 2005/08/26 06:18:45
Does anyone have a later version than 0.12c? All old links seem dead.
Get Frogbot From Here
#4145 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/08/26 07:37:43
http://parboil.quakeworld.ru/
Don't be afraid of the greekish lettery.
Thanks For The
#4146 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.12] on 2005/08/26 08:27:24
link, but I could only find the 0.13 test version. I've seen several references on the net to newer versions (or possibly variations of) with many bugs fixed by someone called DMSouL.
Although
#4147 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.22] on 2005/08/26 15:30:59
this test version seems to work much better than 0.12c ...
#4148 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/08/27 14:58:31
is there an analog of r_draworder command in fitzquake?
No
#4149 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/08/27 15:13:58
None of the hardware engines do.
Fitzquake does have and r_showtris command though, which may help you accomplish the same thing.
Set r_showtris to 1 to draw all triangles in PVS, set it to 2 to draw only visible triangles.
Thanks Czg
#4150 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/08/27 15:25:51
Vis Help...
#4151 posted by Maric [70.22.61.47] on 2005/08/27 15:51:22
It seems that the vis.exe that I am using is ancient... Could someone please point me to the "latest and greatest"? This would be for Quake.
Thank you in advance.
Ahem...
#4152 posted by Bal [83.199.69.178] on 2005/08/27 16:04:22
I recommend everything that's here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Quake WADs
#4153 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/27 17:35:27
Does anyone have a site with a lot of texture WADs for Quake? I already have id, hipnotic, rogue, cr8, knave, ogro2, hexen2, praevus, speedbase and zer and am looking for more stuff like rubicon, dkt textures and others.
Jago
#4154 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/27 18:05:36
i thought madfox made some textures...
Jago Jago
#4155 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/27 18:36:38
I have a lot of those wads, but I don't know of any currently active site that has those.
Waddage
#4156 posted by . [69.217.53.214] on 2005/08/27 19:04:43
This is why I can't wait to upgrade my hosting, I'll host wads.
Bal...
#4157 posted by Maric [70.22.61.47] on 2005/08/27 19:47:06
Thank you.
Jago
#4158 posted by grahf [24.148.139.52] on 2005/08/28 13:01:11
buzzsaw.gamedesign.net has dkt wads.
metlslime has rubicon in some sub-basement of his site; i forget the exact link, ask him.
planetquake.com/fatty has a few. frib has some that you probably already have.
others? get some q3 packs and convert your own.
Where Can I Get Q1rad
#4159 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/08/28 15:12:11
the lighting program with some calculated reflections. haven't found with google. fat controller's site had a link but it was old. I had it on the old hd...
On Riot's Site
#4160 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.234] on 2005/08/28 15:22:46
http://icculus.org/homepages/riot/...
Textures
#4161 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/08/28 15:23:56
speedy has some, and rpg too i seem to remember.
Thanks Aguirre!
#4162 posted by bambuz [80.221.25.15] on 2005/08/28 15:30:49
Bambuz
#4163 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/28 17:31:41
Speedy's textures I already have (and had them listed in my post) and RPG's site doesn't seem to have any textures. I now got the Daikatana wads as well (thanks Bal!) and am looking for Rubicon and others.
Correct
#4164 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/28 18:31:03
There are no texture wads housed at my site. What I meant was, I could e-mail them if necessary, or I could upload them somewhere if someone pointed out an archival site that I could access.
Off The Wall Question
#4165 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/28 20:57:04
You can call me lazy, but I was wondering if there was a program to create simple brushwork from a diagram? For example, 2d blueprints would create the whole level in brushes 128 units tall, which could be used as a "base" for making the map?
I am trying to easily translate doodles into maps :)
Yeah, I Remember This Coming Up Before
#4166 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.31] on 2005/08/28 21:04:54
inertia, I think I know where to look the program. Give me a moment.
Here We Go
#4167 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.31] on 2005/08/28 21:17:36
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/id...
It works but is by know means perfect. No Z plane beyond the 1/2Z implementation of the original Doom. Any curved line will be translated into ugly blocks. It's worth messing around with though.
Headthump
#4168 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/28 22:12:59
u rock, thanks
too bad i am on a mac and would need the src code to use it on here... oh well, will mess around with it later!
Alpha Channels & You : A Winning Team
#4169 posted by Blitz [65.96.61.71] on 2005/08/28 22:56:18
OK so I'm trying to create a decal for usage in my HL2 map. I basically just want it to be "weathered" looking text -- that is to say, the texture is just a word that has some slight erosion.
So I read this tutorial : http://developer.valvesoftware.com...
And I read some other tutorials.
And my final result is this : http://blitz.circa1984.com/help_al...
Looks like it will work, right? Wrong. It doesn't work. I'm exporting as a .tga, checking off the option to save the alpha channels, and generally doing everything else right as far as I can tell. But for some reason it's just not recognizing the alpha channel, and only showing the "diffuse" part of the texture.
Please help me if you can because I have been trying to figure this out for a while now, but I can't pinpoint where I'm going wrong.
Thanks
I'm Sure This Won't Be Applicable
#4170 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/08/28 23:18:54
but do you need to make a shader for that texture or something? I have no idea, just taking a stab.
I Made The Shader
#4171 posted by Blitz [65.96.61.71] on 2005/08/28 23:22:27
But that doesn't matter, because it's not even working in a regular image viewing app -- Ifranview, Photoshop itself, etc.
Hmmm
#4172 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.142] on 2005/08/29 05:08:44
You have your alpha channel at 100 percent opacity. Is that recommended in the tutorial?
Maybe Not,
#4173 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.142] on 2005/08/29 05:23:18
Looks like a different version of PS than my PS6.
Your pulldown window says 'normal channel.'
Blitz
#4174 posted by cyBeAr [80.217.112.208] on 2005/08/29 13:23:13
try adding a bg to your text and flatten the image, having transparancies in your only layer/rgb channels might mess things up for you.
Some Very N00bish Quake Mapping Questions...
#4175 posted by Maric [70.22.61.47] on 2005/08/29 15:45:11
What are the size limits for Quake maps?
a - total area
b - total size / length of a single brush or brush-group
c - max faces / polies
d - what is considered reasonable for poly counts for an SP map
Is there a way to have a "global" light setting? I have some completely dark shadowed areas with no logical reason to place a light source in them, I hate unsourced lighitng... So?
Is it "ok" to have several small maps as a unit as opposed to one HUGE map? That seems like an obvious question with an obvious answer but the terrian bits I am making are choking the engine a bit it seems and breaking my ideas down to small pieces is a proper solution, eh? I just wonder if fighting only twenty of so monsters before a map change is a bit unusual.
Oh and anyone have a really decent lava texture that they could point me to?
Just a pick...
http://www.maricscabinet.com/m1.jp...
Maric
#4176 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/29 16:06:45
That screenshot is looking nice. I think water or slime would look better in that area, but if you absolutely insist on it being lava, I suggest the quake 3 lava texture. Do a google search for "q3wad.zip" and "q3test.wad".
As for "global" light, you should look into minlight. I am assuming you are using Quake compile utilities from Aguire (which seem to be the standard these days) - look for minlight in the documentation here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea... (the main site for the utilities is obviously at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k ). Personally I think minlight makes maps look washed out and ugly, but hey, it's your map!
As for your other questions, I am sure other people here can provide you with better answers then I can.
Also...
#4177 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/08/29 16:13:29
As for breaking up maps in smaller pieces, I would be against it. This is not HL we're talking about. See if you can tune your brushwork to not cause major slowdowns. You can have big rocky outdoor areas in Quake, they're just tricky to do right.
About acceptable polycounts: I am sure you are going to get lots of different opinions, but my personal belief is that a map build for Quake in 2005 should run well on a 1 ghz CPU with 256 mb ram and a GeForce 3-class videocard. If it does, who cares about polycounts?
#4178 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/29 16:17:35
a - same as Q2; +/- 4096 in all directions.
b - I haven't encountered any such limit.
c - Dos/Winquake.exe has limits that are changable in the console. Otherwise the r_speeds limits are...
d - r_speeds are up to you. After a certain number you start getting artifacts in dos Quake and Winquake engines. If a mapper is conscious of r_speeds, he usually tries to keep it around 600-800, or maybe 900 at the absolute max.
And Map Splitting
#4179 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/29 16:19:49
Go for it. You might want to check "no_intermission" on the trigger_changelevel, though.
Maric
#4180 posted by . [70.224.221.125] on 2005/08/29 16:27:29
That looks funky neat.
As for terrain, I recently found a very easy way to do it, of course using the triangle method - but the way I used to try it was create a brush at a time, clipping it on one face into a triangle, Copying it, manipulating it and blah blah... I often ended up with wanked terrain.
Now what I advise is something like this, viewed from your Z plane, I'll try best as I can to represent it:
_________________
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
---------------
Each \/ and /\ is a triangle. Thus you have a wall of them. Drag 'em from there, and/or use varying sized tris, but keep this simple pattern generally. Hope that made sense o_O
Wow...
#4181 posted by Maric [70.22.61.47] on 2005/08/29 17:18:35
Great responses and thank you.
Jago
-Yes, I was referring to minlight (Arghrad for Q2 is -minlighta) and I am not a huge fan of the washed out look either but the question is whether that is a tad better than completely dark shadows in SP. This will be my first venture into the Single Player realm... Opinions?
-I am not locked in on the whole lava thing, water or slime would be fine but I am not planing any underwater routes.
R.P.G. - Nails struck firmly upon the heads, thank you. That info makes me a lot more comfortable with moving forward.
Phait - That is precisely how I am working it, that was / is the process I used in my Q2 terrain mappage.
I did not plan to turn this into a picture posting bit but here are a few more simply to demonstrate my "issue"
This one shows an all but finished small map, two major areas, about 21 critters to fight, 1 key to open the second area...
http://www.maricscabinet.com/m1a.j...
When I add this section,
http://www.maricscabinet.com/m1b.j...
I can no longer get the whole mess to compile, Tread (yeah I know but I am used to it) does not trace down leaks for Quake as it does for Q2 and Q3. I get the impression that the .map file is not being written when I have a leak after it has reached a certain size.
This third exemplifies what I am trying to do. I end up with 8581 faces from 1587 brushes, that is why I inquired about the limitations...
http://www.maricscabinet.com/m1c.j...
I even tried the "unthinkable and threw a large box around the whole thing just to see if it was a leak, no joy there either. Thus I was of the mind to break it up. As parts of a whole the r_speeds are very decent, it is just very, very brief per part.
The Shadow Knows
#4182 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/08/29 18:56:57
I am not a huge fan of the washed out look either but the question is whether that is a tad better than completely dark shadows in SP.
I'd say completely dark shadows are fine, but this depends on the style of the map, and your own personal preferences. I used lots of completely dark shadows in could.bsp, but there weren't many, if any, in rpgsp1.bsp.
Posting Level Shots Is Fine
#4183 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.55] on 2005/08/29 19:22:46
Nice bled of materials there. It looks sculpted somehow.
Maric, I'll make you a set of lava textures, if you like.
Thanks Cyb & Headthump
#4184 posted by Blitz [65.96.61.71] on 2005/08/29 19:56:50
cybear that was exactly the problem, but I ended up troubleshooting it with metl shortly after I posted this thread. Thank you both anyway :]
Maric
#4185 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/29 20:29:43
Lava: to shamelessly blow my own horn ( fnar fnar ) - I'd strongly recommend the lava from the knave wad, which I think you already have. It has a grainier, more interesting look than the old fashioned 'gloop' look of the id liquids. It can also stand being used across larger pool surfaces without repeating so obviously. With respect to repetition, you can also use the HL trick of overscaling the texture to 1.5x1.5 and rotating it by an arbitrary amount, say 33°
Minlight: generally you want to avoid relying on minlight IMO. It's tricky. Lighting always is, espeically when you have the concerns of both gameplay practicality and SP atmosphere to realise. Quake likes pools of light and shadow, e.g. walltorches intermittently down a corridor or shafts of skylight interspersed with roof beam shadows. Always try to keep such things in mind when building - shadowcasting brushwork, such as aforementioned roof beams, are very useful.
From your editor shots, I see you have mostly cavernous stuff, and very nice at that. I'd recommend using walltorches and flames here and there. Use aguirRe's tools and take advantage of the _anglesense value which can be added to light entities individually. Setting it to less than 0.5 will blend the light from a walltorch over the surrounding rockface without showing up the edges between surfaces. Probably the best way to go, at least to begin with. Larger flames can be set inside brushwork braziers for occassional sharp shafts of light/shadow casting.
Map Size: several small maps as a mini-episode is absolutely fine IMO. The important thing for Quake is to not, as Jago alluded to, end up with the Half-Life design of intentionally dull, utilitarian locations that are no more than one place on the way to some other - probably just as utilitarian - place.
Build something in each map as a focal point of the design. It doesn't have to be big and it doesn't have to use a lot of brushes, it just has to establish the character of the map. Think of the maps in your episode as tracks on a concept album, or chapters ( ahem ) in a story. They don't contain everything, but they always contain something that contributes to the overall piece.
I would disgree with RPG about the intermission camera though. Seeing one's kills and secrets racked up at the changelevel is part of Quake and many players like to know this stuff. Only disable the intermission if you're going for a pseudo-seamless level transition, again a bit Half-Lifey. Dario Casali used one to cross from the outer town to the inner castle in one of the sections of his Prodigy SE. You need a very good reason to do a pseudo-seamless transition though, something dramatic which needs to be immediate and thus justify denying the player their glory score.
Minlight...
#4186 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/08/29 21:00:09
I agree with kell on minlight being ugly. If you need to soften a pitch-black area, try putting in some dimmer lights to simulate ambient light. A low light value light will fill in a small area. A low light value light with a lower "wait" value (default is 1.0) to fill in a larger area. With the right balance of brightness and proximity to walls, you can fill in the area with some faint light that doesn't have a hotspot at the center.
Uses Of Trigger_hurt
#4187 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/08/30 09:48:02
Why does a trigger_hurt brush (dmg 600) placed at the bottom of a pit fail to kill players consistantly on contact with it? What other technique can be used to build a Coagula-style void map?
If a trigger_hurt brush (dmg -5) does not incrementaly heal players on contact, is it possible to build a healing area similar to the one found in Q3DM10?
JsHcK
#4188 posted by negke [85.176.71.62] on 2005/08/30 10:28:32
placing a trigger_hurt at the bottom does kill the player (unless they have the pentagram or use god mode). you don't even have to set the dmg value that high. the higher the dmg the stronger the gibs get pushed back (ie. fly back up). the trigger brush has to extend over the entire floor of course.
negative dmg values painfully add to the players health - the max health amount of 250 can be exeeded this way.
Uhm...
#4189 posted by Bal [83.199.112.20] on 2005/08/30 10:54:12
About the trigger_hurt thing, often enough, the player drops right through it and doesn't die, not sure why, to make sure it works every time I always put 3 or 4 of them one over the other, to make sure that at least one works... But there's probably a cleaner way to get it working every time...?
Kell Was Lost To The Void
#4190 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/30 11:32:12
the player drops right through it and doesn't die
This is due to the way Quake calculates the player's position relative to surrounding stuffage. Vertical movement calculation isn't as quick or precise as horizontal ( presumably because the rarity of vertical movement made it acceptable to skimp a bit ).
Simplest way to avoid this is to make sure your trigger_hurt goes all the way to the bottom surface; so when the player comes to land at the bottom they definitely fire the trigger.
The strength of the dmg needs to be high enough to overcome the armour/health combo the player could potentially have at that stage. I would have thought 600 would be enough.
As an alternative to this method of void implementation, I had necros add to Chapters the trigger_void entity. It will kill the player on contact, even if they have the pent, but without gibbage or knockback. It will also instantly remove monsters on contact.
Much more thematically accurate.
Health Pool
#4191 posted by . [70.224.221.125] on 2005/08/30 11:36:52
I had no idea you could use negative values to add health!
Trigger_hurt And Airborn Players
#4192 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/08/30 11:39:48
It seems to be much easier to gib players with a trigger_hurt brush that is aligned with a regular brush (floor, spike, etc.) than it is to gib players who are passing through one sitting in empty space (falling, jumping, etc.). Can anyone explain this?
More questions. Is it possible, without QC, to use a trigger_hurt to increase a player's health without exceeding the 250 max or triggering the player pain reactions? Can the same be done for armor?
Thanks for the suggestion Bal, it's the best solution I have at the moment.
Kell
#4193 posted by Bal [83.199.112.20] on 2005/08/30 11:42:33
Thanks for the info, your alternative sounds nice. =)
#4194 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/30 11:46:37
Can anyone explain this?
See above.
Is it possible, without QC, to use a trigger_hurt to increase a player's health without exceeding the 250 max or triggering the player pain reactions?
No.
Can the same be done for armor?
No.
your alternative sounds nice. =)
see: He Falls Like Lucifer ;)
Thanks Everyone...
#4195 posted by jsHcK [69.198.128.221] on 2005/08/30 11:47:30
...for the information.
Sensible Healing
#4196 posted by Preach [86.129.219.66] on 2005/08/30 14:28:11
It is possible to perform a hack with an info_notnull that makes a trigger which will heal an arbitary amount, that follows the proper healing rules. The essense is make a trigger brush with type info_notnull, and the following keyvalues
think InitTrigger
nextthink 5
touch health_touch
healamount n
where n is the amount you want it to heal. Sadly I haven't found a way to make it usable multiple times. You could add multiple triggers, with targetnames heal1, heal2 etc. Then remove the think and nextthink from every trigger expect heal1, add a key "use InitTrigger " in all the triggers except heal1, and have each trigger target the next one. Not a great solution, and it's never gonna give infinite healing. I'll look into a way of getting round this, but it won't be easy.
(5 minutes pass)
Ok, it was easy, infinite healing triggers with just two entites are possible, although that chain method is still somewhat useful for finite, multiple heals. Here's the deal on making an infinite heal trigger:
Make a trigger brush of type info_notnull with the following key values:
think InitTrigger
nextthink 5
touch health_touch
healamount n
use SUB_regen
targetname heal1
target heal1reset
Then make a trigger_relay with these fields:
targetname heal1reset
target heal1
wait x
Where x is how frequently you want the trigger to reset, the rate of healing
One side effect of this hack is that you'll hear the respawn sound effect while in the trigger every x seconds, can't get around that yet. Anyway, better post all this before I get carried away looking for a fix to that.
Preach
#4197 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/08/30 14:40:03
nice
Zer Fgd File
#4198 posted by drew [209.89.222.196] on 2005/08/30 22:01:34
anybody got it?
could one use a trigger hurt to increase monsters health? That would be cool.
I Found It...
#4199 posted by Drew [209.89.222.196] on 2005/09/02 15:01:13
At the forge. It's currently in a fgd.x format, and I'm not sure how to change that seeing as I am kind of comp-challenged.
how can I change it so that worldcraft will recognize it and allow me to use it? I promise I won't tarnish Zer too bad!
Drew
#4200 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/02 18:33:54
Just rename the file so that it's extension is .fgd instead of .fgd.x
Then put it where your current .fgd file is.
Model Precache
#4201 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/02 18:38:49
is limited to 256. I've hit the limit several times now. What doesn't seem clear to me is whether 256 is the maximum number of model types or actual models placed in the map. I assumed it was the former i.e. I can put any number of Nailguns in my map but it only counts as 1 model to precache.
Having added just a couple more walltorches since my last compile, I've hit the limit again. What gives?
Model Precaches And Reducing The Count
#4202 posted by Preach [86.129.224.78] on 2005/09/02 19:38:40
I always thought the same thing as you did, that any number of walltorches count as one model in the precache list, so I'm at a loss as to why the problem arises. You may want to look at running the map in darkplaces before and after adding the torches, as it has a handy command modellist that, yup, displays a list of precached models.
Since that one weak suggestion didn't really help with the problem, here's two things you might try doing to reduce the model count instead. One can be done without a mod, so I'll explain that one first. It's only useful if you have the same func_wall or func_door or something used several times in a map. Some kind of wall fitting moved to an entity to reduce vis times/speed or a regular design of door. You can in fact use the same single brush model several times within a map rather than making a unique one every time, by using an entity editor.
Essentially you just look at the first entity in the list to use the model you like, and take the model number from the .ent file. You then give every additional entity that same model, but with an origin of the displacement needed to move from the first entity to where you want the new one to go. I mentioned a similar trick in the progs thread for getting effects flags onto a door. The same problem that a door trigger will spawn in the wrong place for subsequent doors still applies.
Another difficulty with this is lighting, you'd need to be sure that the one model is appropriately lit for all the instances you use it in, from the position of the first use. Probably not easy. However, typing this up has made me realise func_doors and func_walls are not the best candidate for this treatment. The best candidate would actually be trigger brushes. If you have many triggers that can be served by the same sized brush, just use one model for them all. Since appearence doesn't matter for triggers, it's a nice safe choice.
The other way of reducing models would require a custom progs, and also boost the size of the map download a bit. It would be to literally combine some models, make them multipurpose. One way would be using QME, shrinking and hiding models within each other in different frames, and saving models that way. You'll also drive up polycounts like this, so it's a much more desperate move. At the very least however, you could combine the keys into one model with two skins, and make one gib with three(four with the zombie bit)varying shapes in frames for different gibs. Going further down the gib route, I'm sure replacing the heads of gibbed monsters with a generic gib blob wouldn't be so much of a crime if you're looking for savings...
My Engines Also
#4203 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.159] on 2005/09/03 02:19:46
support more than 256 unique models (1024) and you can use the mcache command to see what they are. It's usually the amount of bmodels (triggers etc, listed as running numbers, e.g. *89) that gets you over the limit.
Thanks
#4204 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/03 06:42:01
for the comprehensive replies, guys.
Preach: aye, I wouldn't consider a custom progs as an option since this is an issue unique to a particular map and therefore I consider it my responsibility as the mapper to sort it out, instead of shunting the problem elsewhere.
The trick with using bmodels multiple times is...interesting, but tbh with the number, variety and complexity of what many of my trigs etc. are doing, I think I'd be teetering on the brink of mapper's madness before resolving the issue while preserving the gameplay satisfactorily.
aguirRe: yes, I've employed your GL engine many times with this map - 'tis a vital tool :) Good to know about the mcache command.
So it turns out my problem was a misconception - I wasn't taking bmodels into account because I'm still used to thinking models -> .mdls
That's a big fat D'oh! for me >_<
I'm modifying the map to get the bmodel count down, and also shaving out a few superfluous mapobjects ( how many corpses did I make? o_O )
/me retreats unto the void
Another Thing
#4205 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.186] on 2005/09/03 07:12:52
is that I think some editors sometimes attach brushes to point entities, e.g. trigger_counter. If your editor does that and you have many such ents, removing the redundant brushes might help getting under the limit again.
I forgot to mention that when using my engines, you'll also know how many models you actually have (you'll get a warning), thus hinting how much you need to shave off.
Rotation
#4206 posted by inertia [134.53.108.1] on 2005/09/03 17:20:15
I want to make a rotating room that starts slowly rotating but then accelerates... and eventually spins fast enough to be a convincing deadly force upon the player (if he were to touch it). Are there preexisting accelerating rotation entities?
Well
#4207 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/03 21:11:21
you could make a func_rotate_train or whatever that moves to pathcorners with increasingly fast rotation speed at nearly the same position. (the path corners need to be at least 1 unit apart otherwise it doesn't work)
I Would Recommend Checking Out
#4208 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.200] on 2005/09/03 22:05:16
Proxy's Extra's QC; it adds a number of useful functions without much overhead -- a room like that may need a switch that rotates with the room!
You Mean...
#4209 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/09/04 01:21:13
Pox's extras?
Oops
#4210 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.235] on 2005/09/04 09:58:12
late at night/drinking/STD's acting up
Wad File Gfx.wad Doesn't Have WAD3 Id
#4211 posted by Troy [68.62.111.245] on 2005/09/04 10:58:07
WHAT DO I DO? : Wad file gfx.wad doesn't have WAD3 id
Troy:
#4212 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/09/04 13:02:28
sounds like you're trying to load the quake gfx.wad into half-life, or something like that.
Crash
#4213 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/09/04 15:39:04
missing frame0 of +1basebtn
what's wrong, I loaded the right wad-file before compiling.
another one:
ED_ParceEntity: closing brace without data.
MadFox
#4214 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.220] on 2005/09/04 16:22:15
1) AFAIK animation frames begin with 0; make sure you're referencing the first one and that all frames are in the wad. Qbsp will fix the rest.
2) Either the entity section is corrupt or you're using an engine that can't handle .cfg/.rc files that are not properly terminated with CRLF. QuArK often generates such files. You could try using this updated DataQ1.qrk file: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/Dat... .
It's for QuArK 6.3 and later, I don't know if it works for earlier versions. There are also numerous improvements for Q1 entities.
Allright...
#4215 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/09/04 17:49:51
I am using old compilers versions with new ones to gain my profit out of the maps I recompiled.
Some turn out right, others give the strangest errors I could forsee.
But thanks for your advice.
Wad File Gfx.wad Doesn't Have WAD3 Id
#4216 posted by Troy [68.62.111.245] on 2005/09/04 20:25:52
I just DOwnloaded Steam and counter strike and when i go to play Counter-Strike i get this Error
Wad file gfx.wad doesn't have WAD3 id
I have no Clue what to do...can someone please try and walk me through this...
My AIM screen name is Troythepooh14
it would be so helpffull...
Wad File Gfx.wad Doesn't Have WAD3 Id
#4217 posted by Troy [68.62.111.245] on 2005/09/04 20:27:06
I just DOwnloaded Steam and counter strike and when i go to play Counter-Strike i get this Error
Wad file gfx.wad doesn't have WAD3 id
I have no Clue what to do...can someone please try and walk me through this...
My AIM screen name is Troythepooh14
it would be so helpffull...
Troy
#4218 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2005/09/04 23:19:25
Ask these and other level design questions and hopefully have them answered.
What the hell does that problem have to do with level design?
If you must ask, ask in General Abuse.
Zer FGD Again.
#4219 posted by Drew [24.64.66.37] on 2005/09/05 02:27:20
The file is zer.fgd.x, but it in explorer it is recognized as zer.fgd, an x file. It isn't recognized in my computer ( or worldcraft, for that matter) as an fgd file, and I don't know how to change this association.
Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass, but I just can't get it.
thanks again
...
#4220 posted by Drew [209.89.222.196] on 2005/09/05 02:29:45
I also tried opening it with text editor and saving the file as zer.fgd. Although this is the name of the file, it is now considered a txt file. If I'm being a dumbass, please take it easy on me. thanks
You'll Have To
#4221 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.226] on 2005/09/05 02:48:47
type the filename within quotation marks, i.e. "zer.fgd" when saving in NotePad.
Akk
#4222 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/05 13:56:18
You must turn off "Hide extensions for known file types" in Windows Explorer's Tools->Folder Options menu if you want to play with the big boys.
Renaming Files
#4223 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/09/06 02:23:27
One can also select the file and hit f2 (shortcut for rename in windows) and retype it a nice name like zer.fgd.
Mapping For Q1 In Radiant
#4224 posted by method [195.194.204.251] on 2005/09/06 02:27:45
hey can you use radiant to map for quake 1, as the new engines now support q3 maps i was wondering if it possible to make a map in radiant for quake 1, to get all the nice textures and that. cheers
Mapping For Q1 In Radiant
#4225 posted by method [195.194.204.251] on 2005/09/06 02:28:09
hey can you use radiant to map for quake 1, as the new engines now support q3 maps i was wondering if it possible to make a map in radiant for quake 1, to get all the nice textures and that. cheers
Method
#4226 posted by Jago [85.76.178.146] on 2005/09/06 02:37:03
GTKRadiant 1.5 support Quake 1 natively.
Radiant: http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/fil...
Docs: http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/fil...
Put your texture WADs into /Quake/ID1 so that Radiant can see them.
#4227 posted by method [195.194.204.251] on 2005/09/06 03:05:04
thanks jago, will i be able to use hi-res textures in my map or is it just the old ones in wads?
You Can Compile What You Want
#4228 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.170] on 2005/09/06 04:45:22
into the .bsp; however, there is really no need to put the high rez textures directly into the map. Custom engines that handle hi-rez read them automatically from an external folder.
#4229 posted by method [195.194.204.251] on 2005/09/06 06:06:48
yeah thats cool, i was talking about hi-res textures that arent remakes of the q1 ones, like from the evil 6 texture pack for q3 is this what u mean?
if this is what u ment then how would u go about setting up the folders in he quake dir.
cheers again.
I Think
#4230 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/06 09:21:12
for that you would need to first make a wadfile and convert all the textures you want to use down to 256 colour and shrink them by half. you use those to texture the map in the editor, but then you use the original textures in the external folder and they'll be replaced in-game at the proper size.
Cheers
#4231 posted by method [62.252.128.18] on 2005/09/06 11:33:40
I thought that myself but wanted to check if there was any other way, hopefully it will be implemented into some level editors soon :-)
anyways i'll give it a go and see what i can do with it.
Q1 Tools Update
#4232 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.221] on 2005/09/08 04:52:23
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . All engines are updated with several features/fixes, e.g. autobright handling of selected models, eliminated cache meshes and improved flame animations. Tx/TreeQBSP and ConvDem has minor additions and Q1 ToolTips has been expanded with a new QuakeC section. Please also see readmes for details.
Any comments are welcome.
#4233 posted by Spirit [80.171.152.95] on 2005/09/09 05:51:29
I had this question earlier today:
What's the difference between TxQBSP and TreeQBSP?
I'm a QuArK user (never managed to switch :( ), as far as I heard TreeQBSP is better for QuArK?
Thanks for your work on these tools!
This Is A Question I Also Ask Myself Sometimes
#4234 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/09/09 06:02:02
Probably The Most
#4235 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.79] on 2005/09/09 07:09:22
common question, here are some answers from earlier in this thread:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Basically, they're both nowadays very similar (almost identical in results) and you can use whichever you prefer. I use Tx myself.
Thanks AguiRe
#4236 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.90] on 2005/09/09 10:15:02
I'll switch to TxQBSP then :)
Aguirre:
#4237 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/09 12:57:21
if they're both really similar, why maintain both?
Metl
#4238 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.69] on 2005/09/09 16:23:53
You already asked me this in January ... ;)
I keep both of them because they produce the same results, but internally in different ways and thus they might offer some help in tricky scenarios (like a 2nd opinion).
Aguirre:
#4239 posted by metlslime [67.180.175.229] on 2005/09/09 21:46:48
yeah, sorry, i keep forgetting the answer :)
Rotating Weapons
#4240 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.30] on 2005/09/10 14:52:25
Can I stop the weapons rotating from within the editor?
I've played with 'spawnflag' to no avail. I've also removed the 'rotate' flag from one of the weapon models, also to no avail.
Turn
#4241 posted by MadFox [84.26.103.133] on 2005/09/10 18:18:03
It is possible to stop the armor.mdl turning around by deleting the option in the QMLE modeleditor in the model property editor.
So it was my first thought to change it there.
But the weapons ain't got a turn option.
Must be somewhere in the QC-files.
Mike / Madfox
#4242 posted by negke [85.176.68.105] on 2005/09/11 03:19:50
removing the 'rotate' flag with a model editor (qme) does work and is the only way to stop the models from rotating as far as i know.
are you sure you started the game the right way, with the modified models being placed in a subdirectory\progs?
Doh...
#4243 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.30] on 2005/09/11 03:51:56
...I have to stop editing after midnight: I modified the SNG mdl but used the NG in my test map!
It works OK. Thank neg!ke.
Miscellaneous Questions
#4244 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/18 16:07:46
1. How do you have monsters "teleport in"? Say there is a button and if you press it you want 5 monsters to appear.
I take it I have the monsters sitting in some inaccessible room, but I'm not familiar enough with triggers to know how to make a button do that.
2. Deathmatch starts. How many are needed to make a map support deathmatch? What happens if 8 players try to play a map with only 4 deathmatch starts?
3. Does deathmatch also utilize info_player_start and info_player_coop spots? I would guess the answer is no.
4. Is there a way to cause a message to appear on screen for ALL cooperative players? Like if someone pressed a button that said "the crypt has been opened".
One Trigger Triggers Multiple Events?
#4245 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/18 16:18:29
Can a single trigger, like setting up a button, trigger both a lift and a door?
...
#4246 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/18 16:20:23
Forgot to add/specify ... the above 5 questions I should have stated "without using Quake C", just for a standard map with no progs.dat
Baker
#4247 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/18 16:32:17
1. I take it I have the monsters sitting in some inaccessible room
Yup. I call them 'spawnboxes'.
how to make a button do that
give the button a key/value "target" "blah"
then give the trigger_teleport "targetname" "blah"
where 'blah' is whatever you want.
Remember that you should only have one monster teleported to one destination per triggering, otherwise multiple monsters will just telefrag each other, a la the intermission of e1m7. So use a separate trigger around each monster.
2. There's no technical requirement, the number of starts is a tactical gameplay decision for the mapper.
What happens if 8 players try to play a map with only 4 deathmatch starts?
4 players will be instantly telefragged. Followed by the other 4, if they don't move their arses off the spawnpoints sharpish :P
3. No, it doesn't use them.
4. Not that I know of, but I haven't ever really tested.
5. Yes, if the lift and door have the same "targetname". Both will be triggered at the same time, when the button is pressed.
Baker
#4248 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.215] on 2005/09/18 16:48:15
Take a look at http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr... for a lot of info and tutorials regarding mapping, entities atc. There are also similar stuff at http://www.gamedesign.net .
Baker
#4249 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/19 11:54:04
4. Is there a way to cause a message to appear on screen for ALL cooperative players? Like if someone pressed a button that said "the crypt has been opened".
Just guessing here, but maybe you could do a trigger_counter with a count of 1 and a "message" of whatever you want. I think the trigger_counter message is broadcast to all.
Tried Trigger_multiple It, Didn't Work For The Coop Player
#4250 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 00:04:22
Looks like that would require QuakeC
But..
#4251 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/20 01:11:52
trigger_multiple is not trigger_counter.
Hipnotic Development Kit?
#4252 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 02:50:11
Are the Hipnotic and Rogue development kits still available somewhere? (I have the Zerstorer one)
Google isn't turning up anything.
In particular I'm after the force field/particle field QuakeC.
Or
#4253 posted by necros [142.150.107.202] on 2005/09/20 08:29:02
look for the custents devkit which has both the hip and rogue code stuffs as well as other things
QC Source
#4254 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.33] on 2005/09/20 10:26:54
Original: http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/i...
Hipnotic: http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/i...
Rogue: http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/i...
Custents: http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
Got 'em
#4255 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 14:47:19
And it occurs to me how doomed Quake would be if we ever lose ftp.sunet.se (the final mirror).
aguiRe, ever thought of adding Tyrann's "remove_skip.exe" code into txQbsp? I can't see someone using a texture named "skip" texture for anything but for a "removed texture".
There Are Other
#4256 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.197] on 2005/09/20 15:07:27
idgames2 mirrors, but I only know of sunet's planetquake subdir, which actually contains a lot of stuff.
No, I haven't thought of putting that feature into qbsp.
Skip Removal In Qbsp
#4257 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/20 16:20:12
yeah, this would be nice. Probably should be off by default and activated by command line.
Tyrann's skip removal tool is pretty hacky -- it doesn't remove the surfaces or marksurfaces from the file, it simply shortens the list of marksurfaces for each node. Or something like that, i can't remember exactly.
A more robust version (actually removing the faces from the bsp, not allocating lightmaps for them, etc.) would only really be practical if it was handled during the qbsp stage.
How To Do Large Rectangular Lights Right?
#4258 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/20 18:36:21
I've seen lights that are long rectangles ...
---
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
---
Are they making a ton of individual lights? What technique are they using?
Or is there an easy way to take a brush and make it illuminate?
Baker
#4259 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/09/20 19:33:54
Unless you're using surface lighting, you just need to place one or a few lights. Sometimes I go with one, but sometimes two.
Baker
#4260 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/20 20:31:17
If the texture is one of those 32x128 dimension light textures, i recommend making 4-8 light entities along the length of it. that gives a nice and even illumination. Copy / paste is your friend.
Skip
#4261 posted by Bal [81.249.1.58] on 2005/09/20 23:11:51
Tyrann said he stopped using his skip program cause it causes visual glitches sometimes, I've been using it quite a bit and haven't come across any problems though...
But yeah, a real skip pass during qbsp would be awesome, one of my maps keeps going a bit over markedsurface engine limit, and being able to skip some stuff could probably help. =D
Idgames2 Mirrors
#4262 posted by Spirit [80.171.52.120] on 2005/09/20 23:54:14
Marius was so nice to post this list on quaddicted.com
The following mirrors are all functioning as of Friday, May 27, 2005:
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/id...
http://www.au.horde.org/pub/idgame...
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
http://ftp.se.kde.org/pub/pc/games...
http://download.au.kde.org/pub/idg...
Planetmirror Mirrors
http://curl.planetmirror.com/pub/i...
http://python.planetmirror.com/ftp...
http://mrtg.planetmirror.com/pub/i...
http://horde.planetmirror.com/pub/...
http://public.kde.planetmirror.com...
The icky, incomplete mirror over at Absolute Gamer
http://www.fileaholic.com/idgames....
(All the links points to the /levels dir)
http://www.quaddicted.com/content/...
Does Skip Tool Help To Reduce Marksurfaces?
#4263 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/21 02:14:27
I have 31499 marksurfaces in my map already. But I still need to make a large hall for final battle. I need to reduce their number. Any ideas?
Pulsar:
#4264 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/09/21 02:44:28
no, it doesn't remove them, sadly.
PuLSaR
#4265 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/09/21 02:48:08
I have the same problem with my current project: marksurfaces value is around 35000...o_O...and unfortunatly I was not able to solve it :(... and I have to let it as is....
AFAIK, it's not a problem for FitzQuake engine (either equivalent, or better) to manage this too high value: you would only have choppy visual effect ingame with "old PC". And unfortunatly, WinQuake and standard engine should abort during map load.
It seems to be a recurent issue for big maps.. :( ..
Hrimfaxi also has this issue with his last map (tris), and he told me he was able to solve it... We also had interesting discussion about this issue (concerning my map).. so maybe you could contact him directly.. though..
Ffs Guys
#4266 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/09/21 03:13:34
make episodes of normal maps, not huge-ass maps. It's nicer to play that way too!
Well sorry, I haven't seen what you're working on...
Is this all because of kinn? Some penis measuring contest?
Bal
#4267 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.160] on 2005/09/21 04:17:52
If you exceed the marksurfaces limit of 32k, I'd suggest not to worry too much unless you experience obvious problems (typically map crashes).
There seems to be some kind of margin before real problems appear and there are several big maps released (e.g. Menkalinan) that exceed the limit without having any apparent issues.
Inside normal engines, bad things will happen immediately when passing 32k, but it might still not cause any harm.
#4268 posted by Kinn [81.130.212.78] on 2005/09/21 05:30:26
Is this all because of kinn? Some penis measuring contest?
*teeheehee* ^_~
Penis Measuring Contest
#4269 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/21 08:46:19
a good theme for event =)
Markedsurfaces
#4270 posted by Bal [81.249.1.58] on 2005/09/21 11:07:05
Actually, as soon as my map went over the limit (by a few hundred markedsurface), fitzquake became unable to load it (crashes)... That normal? Runs fine now that I'm under again (had to move a part of the map for later use =\ ).
Marksurfaces
#4271 posted by Hrimfaxi [83.94.153.240] on 2005/09/21 12:17:10
Actually you could try to go on mapping on the map as it is.
While working on my last map Tris, I several times went over the max marksurface count.
I found that even if the map chrashed the engine, putting more brushes into the map made the number of marksurfaced drop well below the max again.
Sometimes I had to map in two seperate areas of the map to achieve this but it worked!
I mapped for 5 weeks where the number raised and dropped all the time.
But of course there must be a point where it wont drop anymore, and it may not work in all maps.
I Hate Markedsurfaces...
#4272 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/21 12:45:07
they're like ants-- you don't know where they come from, but there's a shit load of them.
Hmmm...
#4273 posted by Bal [81.249.1.58] on 2005/09/21 12:58:34
How come they go up and down? I'd imagine more areas = more markedsurfaces... no?
I guess I'll be the one to ask the obvious question, what exactly are markedsurfaces?
Marksurfaces Revisited
#4274 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.103] on 2005/09/21 14:30:50
There are posts earlier in this thread starting here: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
including an explanation from metl and several empirical observations that might help.
AguirRe
#4275 posted by Bal [83.199.21.25] on 2005/09/21 23:08:28
Thanks. ;)
Well, guess I'll just finish the map for now, and put the area I removed back in once it's done, see if the markedsurface still jump over 32k.
#4276 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/22 02:14:40
they're like ants-- you don't know where they come from, but there's a shit load of them. - these words are golden.
I got an idea: I'll save my map as it is atm, and if it starts to crash in progress, i'll make the final battle in a sepapated map.
Teleporting Items...
#4277 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/09/22 08:37:04
I have seen this technique achieved in some maps but haven't been able to do so myself.
Is there any way to teleport items (keys...perhaps) in Quake?
Thanks in advance :)
Bsp Wasn't Built.
#4278 posted by Drew [24.64.64.122] on 2005/09/23 13:44:13
when I try to run my map in worldcraft I get an error message saying that the bsp wasn't built, and asking if I want to continue anyways.
Why does this kind of thing happen?
Any idea how I should go about fixing it?
Thanks.
Drew...
#4279 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/09/23 14:41:41
Check out the last few entities/triggers you created/changed and make sure there isn't anything funky with their settings. Remove them and recompile the map as necessary. The QBSP_LOG file may be of further assistance.
Good luck!
Anti-camping?
#4280 posted by Maric [70.17.239.166] on 2005/09/23 20:40:30
Ok, I have taken a short detour from my small SP dealy. I have been playing about with a simple DM map and I have an area that is very campable. I would like to have a shoot-able switch that resets every 30 seconds or so and makes that campable area a deadly place to hang out. I'd like the damage to be inflicted for only a second or so and the resest until the switch is reset. In Q2 maps I have used func_explosion with a multiple fire switch. Also complicating things, I have a tele-destination in / at the area I want to target...
Suggestions on the best way to accomplish this?
Well,
#4281 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/23 21:13:54
you can just make a big door that's hidden in the ceiling and has a very high speed (2000+) and whatever damage you want.
have it targetted by a button with a high wait (30 seconds like you said)
or, you can make the door visible and build a crusher thing and make it a prominent part of the map, whatever works.
Generic
#4282 posted by negke [85.176.80.154] on 2005/09/24 04:11:36
i don't think teleporting items are possible in vanilla quake.
the workaround would be to have a small closet with a door (and an optional func_illusionary) on the ceiling which opens at a certain event, lets the items drop out and then closes to make the surface seem solid again; or let items rise from a hidden hole in the floor.
I've Seen Mods With Grenades That Go Thru Teleporters
#4283 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/24 10:12:00
>i don't think teleporting items are possible in
>vanilla quake
I don't know if this counts as an item
Speedrunning Friendly Maps - What Should Be Avoided / Be There
#4284 posted by Ankh [83.16.98.218] on 2005/09/24 11:34:30
Does anyone here care about quake speedrunning? Anyway, maybe someone has some thoughts.
What are the main aspects to make a map speedrunning friendy? The most obvious is to stay clear of clip brushes which block players movement. But I'm shure there are more aspects. What do you think?
Hmmm...
#4285 posted by Maric [70.17.239.166] on 2005/09/24 11:59:56
The moving door will not work out well due to this being an outdoor area... Ain't no lid on da' crib.
I was thinking of an area_damage, can this be toggled multiple times via a button / switch?
Ankh
#4286 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.246] on 2005/09/24 12:35:27
I'm no runner but a GL, potential vertical shortcuts and slopes should help. If you haven't already, check out RDE: http://www.planetquake.com/rde .
Kell/necros: Re Chapters
#4287 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/09/24 12:38:10
'By default, mapobjects to do not block movement. To implement this simply, add a clip brush of the dimensions noted above placed on the floor'
Why did you choose not to make the braziers block movement without using clip_brushes? Did you foresee occasions when not blocking movement was an advantage for this/these models?
Maric
#4288 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/09/24 13:53:20
I don't think trigger_hurt entities are triggerable. I think your only triggerable option is to have a func_door that squashes the player. You could, theoretically, have a set of spikeshooters that are triggered by the button, but I suspect that in order to give significant damage, there would need to be so many spikeshooters that they would lag all the players.
Alternatively, you could set a trigger_hurt in the campable area that does 1-2 damage per second. Plenty of time to grab the quad or whatever, but you still don't want to sit around there.
Generic
#4289 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/09/24 14:11:03
I have teleporting health in my WIP map but I did it by modifying items.qc.
#4290 posted by Maric [70.17.239.166] on 2005/09/24 14:24:56
I think your only triggerable option is to have a func_door that squashes the player.
This is pretty much what I ended up doing, although in a reversal of what necros (thank you btw) suggested. I have the brush coming up from the floor smashing the player up into a clip brush. I guess it works out ok, I'll find out via beta testing...
The map is ready for a beta run, anyone interested?
Maric
#4291 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/24 15:43:48
one last suggestion, hope it isn't too late:
You could make the floor of the area a func_door that drops a short distance, maybe 8 units, into a trigger_hurt with massive damage. Just as long as the trigger_hurt was lower than the func_door's raised position, but higher than it is in its lowered position...if you follow o_O
The advantage to this over the vertically moving crusher is that you won't need a clip brush or other solid 'squish' surface overhead.
I used this mechanism for the sacrficial pit in my early DM map Animositania, as an anti-camping measure where the pent was located.
Ooooooooh...
#4292 posted by Maric [70.17.239.166] on 2005/09/24 16:18:20
You could make the floor of the area a func_door that drops a short distance, maybe 8 units, into a trigger_hurt with massive damage. Just as long as the trigger_hurt was lower than the func_door's raised position, but higher than it is in its lowered position...
I like that one and its not too late either, I am in no hurry.
Making that change does not change my need to have it tested in the current state that it is in. It is "finished" and fully compiled, I need suggestions on items / weapons loadout and layout, some lighting tweaks and comments on exactly what is the most common approach to clipping architecture.
/me throws out some bait...
http://www.maricscabinet.com/1q2a....
Mike:
#4293 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/24 20:47:54
well, we decided to leave it up to the mapper because we didn't know where the mapmodels might be used. for example, a map i'm working on has the bordering on corners. if they were clipped to the dimensions, they would hinder movement quite a bit. but since it's not preset, i put a clip brush that clips 45 degrees, so a triangle, basically, instead of a square, and that lets the player move smoothly around the corner but doesn't let them move into the object.
also, for the shorter braziers, you might want to place them out in the middle of a floor where you wouldn't want to clip them at all (so the player doesn't trip on them).
it's all about freedom and customizability.
Btw, Maric
#4294 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/24 20:49:35
that map looks really good! :o
if i was even remotely interested in DM, i'd offer. :P
Necros
#4295 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/09/24 23:56:00
Good point, thanks.
Maric
#4296 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/25 00:08:23
if its for q1, send it to sollers DOT inertia -AT- gmail DOT com and i'll have a look at it for you. additionally, i need to know what player load you are making it for (1on1, 2on2, 3on3, FFA, etc)
Hmm...
#4297 posted by drew [24.64.66.37] on 2005/09/25 12:55:48
I have a problem with my map, once again. I have "cross connected doors".
What does that mean?
thanks guys
Drew
#4298 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/25 13:09:42
I'm not sure but I remember I had a problem with 4 door angled 0 90 180 270. At least one door should not have the right angle (271 1 89).
Check The
#4299 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/25 13:15:01
'doors don't link' spawn flag! rawr!
Maric
#4300 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/25 16:26:30
a) get rid of the silly clip brushes above the quad
b) make the GA an RA or YA and add in other armors in other places
c) I like the quad placement and the quad teleporter placement
d) the placement of the high powered weapons is not very good:
the RL can see both the GL and the LG... this equals map domination and stuff etc etc
solution: add another rocket launcher on the lower levels, and switch the existing rl and lg positions
see how that plays! I'd suggest more radical changes but 1) i think it will play pretty well how it stands and 2) i dont have a very good qw setup here, so its hard for me to get a perfect grasp on the map dynamics
glhf! it looks really good also...
but make the blackness a sky texture, so rockets die when they hit it, and make it so players die on the vertical walls, not just the bottom of the abyss
Mike And Neg!ke...
#4301 posted by generic [71.1.14.133] on 2005/09/25 17:12:12
Thanks for the input and sorry for the slow response. I am implementing Neg!ke's "false ceiling/floor" in my latest speedmap, but thanks Mike for the QC idea :)
Maric
#4302 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/25 18:56:30
Haven't played the map, but it sounds like inertia has some good feedback there.
Except: but make the blackness a sky texture, so rockets die when they hit it
Don't do this. Actually, yeah...go ahead and do it, then see how the map runs while the engine tries to calculate that much sky animation every frame :P
Not very render-friendly if played without a skybox.
Oh Oh!!
#4303 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/25 18:59:53
i know!! take away the outer box! nothing beats genuine, grade 'A', grey void! :D
Kell!!! / Maric
#4304 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/09/25 19:19:02
couldn't he just put a trigger_hurt out there to kill the rockets? i thought some sort of trigger_ would kill things like that...
#4305 posted by metlslime [71.139.5.140] on 2005/09/25 22:31:40
Actually, yeah...go ahead and do it, then see how the map runs while the engine tries to calculate that much sky animation every frame :P
This is only really a problem in glquake. Winquake doesn't care, and engines like fitzquake and darkplaces don't care. The solution for glquake (and any gl engine that hasn't rewritten the glquake sky code) is either a really high gl_subdivide_size or, in some engines (like zquake and fuhquake) there is a "fastsky" cvar or something.
Metl
#4306 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/26 04:57:13
Yeah I know some engines have ways to deal with it, which is why I provided skyboxes for Chapters.
But Maric's map is DM, so I assumed there'd be a different and probably wider array of engines players might be using to play it, and there's also internet play to consider.
Even in FQ, with its efficient renderer and all, turning the skybox off in one of my void maps halves the framerate.
Fuh And Ez
#4307 posted by bambuz [130.233.220.23] on 2005/09/26 05:24:18
that are the only real quakeworld clients (well, there's mqwcl but less than 1% use it) have the r_fastsky option as well as skybox support and a software client version. I don't know how well the vanilla sky renders in fuhquake-gl (and it's derivative ezquake-gl) but I believe it's fixed just as much as fitzquake. I understand most of the rendering improvements were made by borisu (qw262) and fuh themselves/together. You could try to run some tests.
So the array is not wide. You are considered a cheater if you don't use one of these clients with a certain ruleset and security module.
.
#4308 posted by necros [142.150.107.208] on 2005/09/26 08:11:21
i thought some sort of trigger_ would kill things like that...
hehe, yeah... trigger_void... ^_^;
Almost Forgot
#4309 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/26 11:43:42
fitzquake has r_fastsky also -- though it's a bit obsolete with the r_sky_quality option. Well, unless you're fillrate-bound :P
AguirRe
#4310 posted by Kinn [81.130.212.78] on 2005/09/28 05:31:01
One of us seems to be having an email problem. I have received a number of repeated emails from you, and I replied to the first one I received on september 19. Also, I got the second repeated email first and I have only just received the first one today o_O
I Know
#4311 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.175] on 2005/09/28 06:25:59
I just hope that not too many emails are lost in space. I got your reply a week ago regarding the Rune mod, thanks. I've also got emails in weird order. I strongly suspect my home.se account, maybe it's the seemingly ever-increasing pile of spam that is at fault ...
Monster Count
#4312 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/09/28 12:15:10
I am calling walkmonster_start from outside of the normal monster function. It does exactly what I want although it does not increase the monster count (which is not a problem) but I wondered why?
Becuase...
#4313 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/28 14:15:23
The function you're using only updates the monster total on the server. There is a seperate function that tells the client what the new total is.
I think.
Fullbright All The Time?
#4314 posted by adamllis [66.61.60.51] on 2005/09/28 16:48:48
My map, with or without light ents, after a run of light.exe, is 100% fullbright. There are no leaks (the map is in a large cube). I tested the map with -light 40 before I put in lights, at this point, I believe the map acted appropiately, everything was visable but not super bright. I took off the -light value to test the light ents, and with or without ents the map is super bright.
I was told to ask aguirRe because he is a lighting guru.
Also...
#4315 posted by adamllis [66.61.60.51] on 2005/09/28 17:03:10
I tried something else. I compiled the map with light ents with -light 1. The map was pretty much totally dark, as would be expected with -light 1, but the light ents didn't work.
hmm...
Bumping The Monster Count
#4316 posted by Preach [86.129.227.254] on 2005/09/28 19:47:27
Metlslime has it right, the infomation is only sent to a client when they first connect to the server by default. If you were running a coop server with your mod as it stands, I believe a player who connected after you changed the monster count would see the correct value.
Luckily, there's a way to update these stats after the fact, by composing your own message to the client, in a similar way to the way that temporary entities are done(ie teleflashes, explosions, lightning). The following code would adjust the monster count for self, assuming self is a player.
msg_entity = self;
WriteByte (MSG_ONE, SVC_UPDATESTAT);
WriteByte (MSG_ONE, 12);
WriteLong (MSG_ONE, total_monsters);
The 12 tells the client you wish to update the client's total_monsters variable, and the total_monsters in the write long is the server's value for total_monsters. There are a few other variables that can be altered in this way, 11 is total secrets for example. 6 is ammo_shells, although this is kept in sync with the server automatically. In fact, most of the possible variables are updated automatically or have functions that will do so, total_monsters is the exception. See http://wiki.quakesrc.org/index.php... if you want a complete list.
One more thing to note is that this isn't identical to the way temporary messages are sent. The message is sent using MSG_ONE instead of MSG_BROADCAST. Broadcast is an unreliable message, and so may be dropped over the network due to lag, but with particles that's not too much of a problem. You wouldn't want an altered monster count to be dropped, so you send it by the reliable MSG_ONE. If you strictly wanted this mod to work fine in coop, you'd want to send the message as MSG_ALL, which is supposedly reliable to all clients, or make the code loop through all the clients with MSG_ONE.
Monster Counts
#4317 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.78] on 2005/09/29 01:48:20
There are additional info regarding this in my latest ToolTips. E.g. you must also communicate the killed_monsters value to the engine.
Adamllis
#4318 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.78] on 2005/09/29 02:00:52
You must have done something weird if basic lighting doesn't work. Take a look at tutorials e.g. here: http://www.planetquake.com/worldcr... .
Make sure there aren't any light ents with excessive values or keys that saturate the entire area.
Try putting only this light near a wall:
"classname" "light"
"light" "300"
Then run:
qbsp mapname
light mapname
24 Bit Textures
#4319 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2005/09/30 04:30:45
If a face has a size of 64 x 64 is there any point to a 24 bit texture being larger than 64 x 64.
Is a 128 x 128 texture better than a 64 x 64 texture on a when intended for a 64 x 64 face at higher resolutions face or does it NEVER have an advantage?
RE: 24 Bit Textures
#4320 posted by Jago [85.76.191.71] on 2005/09/30 08:36:55
Yes, there is a point in them being larger. It's the same for all games really, it's not uncommon to see a 512x512 texture on a 256x256 face. If you are making a texture that's ment for a 64x64 face, make the 24bit texture 128x128, 256x256 would be overkill.
Doom3 Question
#4321 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/30 09:44:10
i haven't experimented with this idea at all, since i want to know if it's possible before i start.
basically, i want to have two different islands in a void that are fairly far apart from each other. you can see the one island from the other at all times.
obviously, you wouldn't want the island in the distance to be at full detail because most wouldn't be visible and it would probably slow down like molasses in winter.
is there a way to make most of the details in the island that is far to disappear and not be drawn by the game? sort of like how models look shittier at a distance to reduce the number of polys and thus make it faster to draw.
and it is possible to have details gradually appear as you get closer to them?
it wouldn't even matter if the transition from low detail to high detail was abrupt or smooth (ie: if the details could fade in or now)
Well...
#4322 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/30 11:00:27
if doom3 has LOD you can make the islands in maya or max, rather than out of brushes.
Bleh
#4323 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2005/09/30 12:57:59
http://www.saunalahti.fi/dnaumov/e...
vs.
http://www.saunalahti.fi/dnaumov/e...
I am still thinking that the former looks way better.
What The Hell
#4324 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2005/09/30 12:59:22
that was supposed to go to the screenshot thread
#4325 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/09/30 13:09:44
I think the reason the second shot looks bland is because it's almost all the same texture, without respite. Add some wood and wizmet and I'd definitely prefer it to the first shot.
Jago:
#4326 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/30 13:28:41
Using the same texture theme doesn't mean you're barred from breaking up surfaces with trim and other details.
The flat lighting also doesn't help (cast by the sky, i'm assuming.)
Melt:
#4327 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/30 14:46:57
so you're saying that the meshes should get the LOD treatment automatically?
does anyone know if that would work? i know a lot of the hell maps were made out of meshes and not brushwork. is there a way to tell from those maps if LOD will work or not?
Metlslime
#4328 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/09/30 16:53:13
I discovered a strange behavior of fitzquake recently. It crashes when my wc is open. When I close the editor fq starts to work properly again.
???
Pulsar:
#4329 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/30 19:09:30
- What's the error message?
- Do other engines crash too?
Necros:
#4330 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/09/30 19:11:01
I don't know anything about it, but I'm just saying that if there's LOD, it's probably mesh-only, and therefore to take advantage of it you'd have to use meshes.
Oink
#4331 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/09/30 20:20:52
if there's LOD, it's probably mesh-only, and therefore to take advantage of it you'd have to use meshes.
Or lots and lots of curves.
Hello bless.bsp.
About LOD...
#4332 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/09/30 22:28:53
is that automatic? or do i have to model each level of detail myself and somehow assign each different model version to a certain distance?
Metl
#4333 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/10/01 04:26:42
something like program will be closed - usuall windows error only
other engines (vanilla, agurRe's one óåì) work
PuLSaR
#4334 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.59] on 2005/10/01 07:31:41
I occasionally have BSODs in WinXP when having the OpenGL view open in QuArK and then start a GL-engine. In my case it's driver related (NVidia), maybe yours is too?
Does it seem related to whether the WC 3D-window is open or not?
As Fas As I Can Tell
#4335 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/10/01 07:46:59
Doom 3 has no LOD.
Q3 had it by having several sets of models for each model, but as far as I can tell by poking around in the D3 code it has nothing of the thing. Shouldn't be too hard to set up in a mod tho I guess...
Sound Files
#4336 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/10/01 11:56:15
I am not clear on the use of .wav files for sound effects in Quake.
I have seen from earlier posts that they should be 8bit/11khz/pcm. That's OK but do they have to be of a certain length or perhaps, not longer than x?
I have been experimenting and I have one file (an explosion) that plays as intended and another that keeps playing and wont stop?
Any suggestions or pointers to sites?
Mike...
#4337 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/10/01 12:04:15
could be that the second sound is looped. Looping for quake seems to involve putting a "marker" in the file. It's sort of confusing as the sound editors that can do it don't seem to consider it to be related to looping at all. I'm a little rusty though as the last quake sound i made was like 4 years ago.
Metlslime
#4338 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/10/01 13:01:07
OK, you're on to something here. I used a different program to convert the sample to 8/11/pcm and it now does not play continuously.
But now I can hear what a crap sample it is!!
Without giving too much away, I want a sound that plays for a non-predetermined time, fades and stops. The player will inadvertantly decide the duration. Think of leaning on a bell-push - it rings at a constant volume until you realise it's you making the noise, then when you move, it stops ringing and goes silent via a short fade.
Therefore, I want to play the start, then the middle bit for as long as the player is determining (at random) then the end.
My problem is that in playing my sample, it plays start, middle, end; over and over, which gives completely the wrong effect.
I'm not sure if I am explaining myself very well but, if this makes sense, can it be done with one sound or do I have to use three sounds (start, middle, end)?
AguirRe/metlslime
#4339 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/10/01 13:05:42
it can be a driver problem, but (I think) it worked fine before. I noticed that strange crash only 2-3 day ago.
There was no driver update/fitzquake setup changes for that period.
Mike:
#4340 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/01 13:58:00
two ways of doing this:
1. Make a soundfile which include the start and middle section. mark the middle section only to loop.
Make a seperate soundfile for the end section.
Now, in qc, you make an entity play the start/middle sound when triggered. you then need to make some way to let the entity know when the player has stopped triggering it, and then make it play the end section sound on the same channel, so that it overrides the first sound.
2. Seperate start, middle and end into seperate sounds.
In your entity now, when it is triggered, it should play the first sound, then have a self.nextthink = to the amount of time that the start sound is in length. it should then loop a sound call for the middle section with a nextthink = to the duration of the middle section, and then simply play the end section to stop it.
burr... don't really feel like going into details, hopefully you got the idea. :P
Necros
#4341 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/10/01 14:19:27
Thanks, I can work on that.
Yeah...
#4342 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/10/01 15:03:01
do what necros said. This is how quake's door sounds work. Be sure to play both sounds on the same same channel so that the second sound cancels out the first.
Aguire
#4343 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/02 15:57:42
is there a console command in your engine that will display the amount of precached models? (that one where only unique models count, but doors and trains count for one each)
Mcache
#4344 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/10/02 16:09:23
Necros
#4345 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/06 03:52:32
I read you can hide/unhide stuff in d3 on trigger - that way the 'hallucination' parts are made, when you suddenly see blood on the walls and other satanic models appear
cant recall details, look\ask at d3w
Also
#4346 posted by czg [85.93.227.233] on 2005/10/06 04:57:06
D3 has this "Demonic influence" feature, though it hardly seems to be used. It means that guis and some models and lights have alternate versions that are only showed when the demonic influence is switched on. Seems like id didn't use that too much tho.
Also there are spectrums in lights, that is you set a light to only light up materials which are in the same spectrum, so you could make a light that lights up all spectrums, and you see blood and gore wherever you shine it or whatever. Make it flicker and move around for spooky effects! boo!
#4347 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/06 07:54:02
cool :)
Q1 Question Now
#4348 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/10 11:56:01
Doors, plats, trains all are bmodels and use up a precache thing.
what about triggers? trigger_relays? what if a trigger_relay was a point entity and not a brush?
quark used to make the trigger_relays as point entities, while gtkr makes them as brushes. i never bothered changing it to point entities, but if they can save a precache slot, it would be worth the effort
Trigger_relay
#4349 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/10/10 12:19:55
In the quake source they are always point entities, they don't use a bmodel if they have one. So yes, switch them to point entities and you'll save a precache(I'm sure I'm correct in saying every bmodel is precached automatically even if it's never used). The same goes for a trigger_counter, although that one tends to be done correctly more often.
Silver Key Required
#4350 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/10/12 04:55:32
Super-newbieish question but I had some difficulties in my speedmap:
I made a func door, gave it targetname "eastcage".
Then a func_button to open it (target "eastcage"). I wanted to make it so you need the silver key to be able to press the button.
WC doesn't immediately show a spawnflag for that, so I used the same bit as a func_door would require if you made it silver key only.
This didn't work, the button was still pushable without the key. Also making the eastcage door silverkey-spawnflagged didn't do anything special, it still opened if you pushed the button without the key. So I turned the button to a func_door with a target of "eastcage". Now I could silver-key-spawnflag it, and it worked. Now the button can only be pushed if i have the key. Except now the eastcage door can be opened directly by touching?! (if I have the key) I even made a dummy button with the target of "eastcage" and hid it, but the door is still touch-openable (with the silver key). I gave up.
I don't remember if I had the vanilla or czg flavor fgd.
#4351 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/12 05:47:22
just remove 'requires silverkey' from the door?
^^^
#4352 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/12 08:43:55
you must have just forgot the spawnflag on the blocking doors (or the two are cross-linked and you need to check the 'doors don't link' spawnflag on both the button door and the blocking doors.
as a general rule of thumb, if your doors are fucking up in some odd way, check for cross linking doors and check the spawnflag as necessary.
Coincidence
#4353 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.60] on 2005/10/12 10:20:05
but I did the same with my speed map using a func_door with a silver_key spawnflag to open a second set of doors door. It worked fine without causing any triggers to shoot off before 'touch' activating with the silver key in hand. If you want to see the map let me know, I'll shoot it your way when I get home.
Hmm
#4354 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/10/12 10:33:25
when I get home, I'll try taking the silverkey spawnflag off the cage door and see if it takes the open-by-touch issue away. The "don't link" shouldn't apply here because the problem was not that the door is opening when another door is opened, rather that the door itself opens when it is touched... or well, dunno, might try that too. Thanks guys!
I put the .map file in the zip, although I'm not sure if it's a wise thing to do, if people do that, the .maps just start adding like mad and end up gathering dust in id1/maps... but this is already off-thread.
#4355 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/10/12 16:32:14
... but this is already off-thread.
waitaminutehere, after 4354 posts its finally off thread? :P
Huh?
#4356 posted by negke [85.176.83.182] on 2005/10/14 07:42:29
doors with a targetname only open when they are triggered. or did i miss something?
Scraggs
#4357 posted by Mike Woodham [86.137.1.69] on 2005/10/15 05:21:06
What is it about scraggs that allow them to fly through walls and doors when other monsters can't?
Is it the code, their size, the fact that they fly. (or are they just bastards anyway!)
Scrags
#4358 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.140] on 2005/10/15 05:41:41
and fishes are crazy, they follow you around everywhere. I'm not sure about spawn, but I think I've seen them misbehave too. I haven't seen any code that explicitly should let them do this.
Mike
#4359 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/10/15 07:11:33
it's option 4: bastards! evile bastards at that.
Kell
#4360 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/10/15 09:37:08
Option 4 ?? What's this ? Again a ununderstable joke for non anglo-saxon native, or is it a real feature ?
Jpl
#4361 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/15 10:23:40
it's a bug, apparently in the engine code that lets flying and swimming monsters sometimes clip through walls for no apparent reason but can sometimes be brought on by having a few of them in an enclosed space.
Death Message
#4362 posted by Ankh [83.16.98.218] on 2005/10/15 11:25:55
I there a way in Quake to print a message when the player has died?
Not In Standard Quake,
#4363 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/15 13:17:03
to my knowledge at least.
Thankses
#4364 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/10/17 07:51:11
to everyone who helped me. The door stopped being touch-openable when I removed the "requires silver key" -spawnflag. Now if someone would upload the speedmaps...
Compiler Question
#4365 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/17 09:34:31
Is there any bsp compiler that parses func_groups, so I wouldnt need to 'move to world' each time I want to check the map in game. ( Im resistiing to use that java mapconverter)
Oops, I Thought The #4354 Post
#4366 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.180] on 2005/10/17 14:07:52
meant you had the problem solved. I probably could have saved you some time there. Sorry.
Dead Bodies
#4367 posted by Jonan [210.55.146.49] on 2005/10/19 04:25:56
Hi hi.
How can I get a dead player inside a single player map?
I've seen it on Menk (http://speeddemosarchive.com/quak... I'd like to copy it.
Any ideas?
Suicide Underground
#4368 posted by Preach [131.111.8.101] on 2005/10/19 05:03:30
Make a point entity in your map, and give it a classname of func_illusionary. Then set it's model field to "progs/player.mdl" and it's frame to the corresponding frame number in player.mdl for a dead body - I think 53 is one such frame. For more details, see http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Jonan
#4369 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2005/10/19 15:01:05
What Preach said. Also I looked into menk source and found that I used frame 93 and.. I used class viewthing instead of func_illusionary, I saw it in someone's map.
Func_group In Q1
#4370 posted by Kinn [86.128.239.91] on 2005/10/21 11:40:27
Is there any bsp compiler that parses func_groups, so I wouldnt need to 'move to world' each time I want to check the map in game. ( Im resistiing to use that java mapconverter)
This would be a really really good idea, to support func_group in a q1 bsp compiler (*wink* *wink* aguirRe ^_~).
I'm using gtkradiant now, after being spoiled rotten by all the grouping and layer functionality of WC/Hammre, and I so yearn to be able to select a whole bunch of stuff with just one click again :{
Wink
#4371 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.6] on 2005/10/21 14:20:41
..
Q Func_group
#4372 posted by VoreLord [203.51.221.116] on 2005/10/21 15:04:46
I so yearn to be able to select a whole bunch of stuff with just one click again :{
You can use a limited func_group in GTK for editing purposes with Q, you just need to add the relevant stuff to the def file. You can't actually select with one click, but maybe 2 ;)
(bare with me, I have just formatted and reinstalled and haven't got my editing stuff installed and set up yet, to busy with Q4, so I may not remember some stuff, I just do it on auto pilot without thinking about it)
When you have grouped your stuff, you can select it by bringing up the little window that lists the entities in your map(forget the shortcut, you don't seem to be able to select it by just clicking one of the components), highlight the one you want, and hit select or choose whatever it is. I usually give each group a name so as I know which, is which, otherwise you'll have multiple entries of the same entity and not know which you are after. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing..., maybe. This is what I've got added to my .def,
/*QUAKED func_group (0 .5 .8) ?
This is not an entity as such. It is strictly an editor utility to group world brushes and patches together for convenience (selecting, moving, copying, etc). You cannot group entities with this.
-------- NOTES --------
The TAB key can be used to flip through the component pieces of a selected func_group entity, isolating individual components. To make a func_group into a terrain entity, refer to the Terrain Construction documentation
If this is useless to you, or not what you are on about, or already know, just disregard it as the ramblings of a mad man.
#4373 posted by Lardarse [82.32.58.225] on 2005/10/23 15:55:07
Does anyone here know the origin (and source code) of the custom monsters in alk11 ?
Weird...
#4374 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/10/23 20:42:30
I'm building with WC and using AguirRe's tools then testing in fitz.
I've finished building a start level that uses switchable lights. I fully compiled the level, and everything tested out fine except the exit portals pointed to the wrong levels. I went back in and changed the "next map" field in the trigger_changelevels then did an -onlyents compile. The switchable lights no longer work. I followed up with a full compile and the lights work again. Just to be sure I wasn't missing something, I then went back in and changed the "message" field of the trigger_multiples in front of the exit portals and ran an -onlyents compile. The lights cease to switch.
Does this seem strange?
That Always Happens
#4375 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/23 21:20:55
you need to run aguire's light with -onlyents to relight only the switchable lights and reassign the targets to the proper lightstyles
Ta Much Necros...
#4376 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/10/23 21:59:26
... just adding another beer to the total I already owe you :)
Ugly Rocks :(
#4377 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/10/26 06:05:46
is there a way to avoid "ugly rocks syndrome" in d3 engine?
http://img418.imageshack.us/img418...
#4378 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/26 12:33:47
d3 engine noob here, but you could try just putting some small non shadow casting lights to try to light up the darker faces?
it seems to work ok on angular geometry, but i've never tried it with terrain, so it might not look any better...
also, i don't know how much performance hit non shadow casters make on a large scale as i've only done it in small quantities.
Attn: Aguirre
#4379 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/10/31 10:22:39
Check out this screenshot from your engine:
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php...
What causes that black triangle in the back there?
The sky is RGB 0 0 0, fog parms are RGB 0 0 0, density 0.0666, so in theory the sky and fog should always be of same color. Yet I do see this black "clip plane" there. Tried messing with the gamma and it still shows up.
Would like to know really!
Difficult To Say
#4380 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.217] on 2005/10/31 12:47:11
from the shot, but in general if you're experiencing weird artifacts with sky and fog, you can try tweaking the gl_skyclip cvar (default 4608). It controls the farclip distance of sky in fog.
There seems to be an inherent conflict between sky and fog projection in the distance, therefore I added this cvar to adjust for various combinations.
The basic problem is that the skybox is supposed to be infinitely far away and when fog is added, it will always hide the skybox. Since this destroys the whole idea with the skybox, you can use this cvar to find a balance between skybox size and fog density/colour.
Other artifacts may also appear when using certain fog density/colour combinations, typically banding triangles that follow the current player view. This occurs even in 32-bit colour.
This can easily be seen e.g. in the Nehahra map neh2m3, where a dark and dense fog is covering a very bright skybox.
Please see if any of this applies, otherwise I'll have to take a look at the map.
#4381 posted by czg [81.191.27.124] on 2005/10/31 13:04:43
you can try tweaking the gl_skyclip cvar (default 4608).
Haven't been messing with that value, but the black triangle appears at a much shorter distance, ~1500 units or so.
PreEdit: I just tried a few different values and it had no effect.
Other artifacts may also appear when using certain fog density/colour combinations, typically banding triangles that follow the current player view. This occurs even in 32-bit colour.
I think this sounds more like my problem, I'll try perhaps to mess around with the fog density and see if anything happens.
PreEdit: Ok just tried that too. It's definitely a banding issue, the "distance" to the black area varies with the fog density.
So yeah I dunno. Probably not much I can do about that.
It Seems
#4382 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.3] on 2005/10/31 14:25:23
like darker fog in general causes more visual artifacts than brighter. The OpenGL fog might not be well suited for that. There's also the occasional "dust bunny" effect; in a dark skybox with thin and bright fog, the skybox corners get revealed due to fog congestion.
With some tweaking it's usually manageable. Make use of the engine fog command; it makes trimming a lot easier.
Fog Vs. The Skybox
#4383 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/10/31 15:04:56
This situation is a bit weird to me anyway. I can see two or three valid ways to have fog and skybox interact.
Option one is that the sky is totally, fully fogged (like fitzquake.) This is realistic assuming you think that global, same-density fog is realistic. Since the sky is really far away, you shouldn't be able to see it. The main problem is that it's not actually realistic becuase fog in real life doesn't fill the entire universe with equal-thickness fogginess.
Option two is that the skybox is not fogged at all. This allows the skybox designer to put exactly how much fog he wants into the sky, in order to match the level's fog. They painted fog along the horizon of each skybox. This is how Medal of Honor did it, and it seems to work well almost always. The main problems are when you have really tall objects in the scene, becuase when far away they may still be tall enough to be sillouetted against the part of the skybox that has not been painted with fog.
Option three is to draw the skybox, but fog it slightly in the engine. This seems sort of silly, but does have the advantage that maybe people can use the same skybox with multiple fog colors. Anyway, if you do this, it should be fogged the same amount across each entire face of the box.
The way that doesn't seem valid is to actually fog the sky based on its true distance, since seeing that it's actually a giant cube totally destroys the illusion skyboxes are supposed to create. Extra-fogged corners, fog changing as you rotate the camera, these are ugly giveaways of a sky that isn't a sky at all.
Probably the best way to handle it is to have a standard fog blend variable. A value of 0.0 would use option two, a value of 1.0 would use option one, and any value in between would use option three.
But this only really works if there's a standard among engines, I guess.
Addendum:
#4384 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/10/31 15:06:02
Option two doesn't really work with the scrolling cloudy sky, becuase there's no way to paint fog into it.
.
#4385 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/31 15:26:31
would there be a way to control the maximum amount of fog that can be applied? currently, regardless of density, eventually, fog will become opaque given enough distance.
would it be possible to specify a maximum fog density that the engine would then stop fogging furthur when it's been reached? ie: a max fog density of 0.5 would mean that the skybox would be fogged at 0.5 along with all the other brushes, and since it would be a constant amount of fog, you wouldn't actually need to fog the skybox with the actual opengl fog, just tint it based on the value of 'max fog density' (assuming that's even possible)
Or
#4386 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/10/31 15:27:50
is there a way to blend fog and farclip together to actually make farclip useful? ie: fogging and when fog reaches 100% opacity, farclip everything behind that point in a sphere around the player.
Necros:
#4387 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/10/31 16:00:35
Not using the hardware fog functions. Opengl offers three falloff formulae: 1. linear fog with a start and end depth (end is where it becomes opaque) 2. exponential fog with a density (never gets fully opaque but gets damned close) and 3. "exp2" fog which is exponential with a different formula. (also never gets truly opaque.)
darkplaces and fitzquake (and probably others) use exponential with a "density" as the nly variable. However, darkplaces actually does this in software, which means that darkplaces could theoretically provide new and unusual falloff formulae, including ones with a density cap. Fitzquake and most other engines do it using the hardware features.
Two Questions
#4388 posted by negke [85.176.76.216] on 2005/11/01 09:28:40
1: my latest speedmap (sm110) crashes some engines, but i have no clue what the problem is (or at least i don't know the exact technical reason): the crashes occur when the player is teleported to a teleporttrain which is thereby also triggered to start moving along its path. glquake says "movetype push with a non-bsp model", winquake says "R_RenderView: called without enough stack", winquake-bjp already crashes when loading the map with "unbalanced unlock".
what do (could) these error messages mean? i know the first one, but it most likely is not caused by a trigger/func without a brush - i checked the .map file line per line several times.
you'll be able to play the map on sunday or so, depending on when headthump releases the pack - i probably won't be able to read possible answers until next week, that's why i'm asking now.
2: a question that came to my mind recently: is it possible to reduce the size of the monster's bounding boxes with qc? because the hit radius of some is way to big (or high). would something like this make sense/be useful? would it bring disadvantages of some sort?
I Have No Idea About 1,
#4389 posted by necros [142.150.106.143] on 2005/11/01 09:41:44
but in answer to 2:
one important thing to keep in mind about bounding boxes is how quake handles the collision of these suckers.
as you know, bsp makes 3 hulls, one is the hull you yourself made in the map editor, and the other two are progressively more extruded versions of that original hull.
quake does collision by using whichever extruded hull of the bsp corresponds to the proper size of the bbox as a point entity.
This means, there are only two possible sizes for bboxes for movement collision: player size and shambler size. (well, and point sized, but that's mostly useless for a monster)
However, you can use different sized bboxes for tracing weapons and collisions of point entities on those bboxes.
the problem is, quake will still use one of the three bbox sizes.
if all you are doing is *reducing* bbox size, you should be ok, since quake rounds bbox size to the highest bbox size when it decides what collision hull to use, ie:
a bbox of 48x48x70 would use the 64x64x96 bbox size and a 23x30x40 bbox would use the 32x32x64 bbox size.
this just means that you can't make a monster's bbox smaller so that it will be able to move through thinner areas. the only impact it will have is to make it harder to shoot.
this won't work very well if you are *increasing* the size of the bboxes, because monsters will be able to move inside walls (well, not the models, but the box will) and if you increased the size of a smaller bbox monster (player size) then it would start using the larger sized bbox (shambler size) for movement collision and wouldn't be able to fit through passages it used to be able to.
bleh, i'm too verbose and too lazy to go back over it and fix it. o.0
Neg!ke
#4390 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.116] on 2005/11/01 10:41:00
Try running my WinQuake in a window instead (there's a bug I've fixed for the next version) or just run my GLQuake. You'll then get more information about this problem.
I'd suspect it's the same problem as with the rat in your sm100turtle map; there's a brush entity without a brush. Using my engines will hopefully tell you which one.
Hm...
#4391 posted by negke [85.176.76.188] on 2005/11/01 11:12:55
aguirre: i suspected the same, but couldn't find such an entity. your glquake doesn't tell which one it is (it does not crash there, either) - or do i have to use any special commands (besides developer 1)?
fitzquake and dp work, as well.
i'll check it again and if i really made that dumb mistake again, i'll try to send a fixed version to headthump.
necros: thanks so far. yes, it is supposed to make the monsters harder to hit. i wanted to take the ogre's bbox as an example, as it extends over the full length of the chainsaw (idle mode) with a lot of unused space above, but i just realized that making the bbox generally smaller would leave the arm with chainsaw - which the ogre holds up while running - out of the hit area...
is there a way to individually adjust the each side of box? like making it a rectangle or something?
Neg!ke
#4392 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.123] on 2005/11/01 12:28:28
If that error occurs, you'll be thrown out of the engine with a messagebox, so you don't need to do anything other than provoke the error. If it only happens in software engines, did you try running my WinQuake in a window (use option -startwindowed)?
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Ugh
#4393 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/01 14:25:28
i typed out an answer, but i pressed the back button on my mouse. ¬_¬ the short answer is that yeah, you can do it, but that it will suck and won't work properly, so don't do it. :P
Gl_fullbrights Setting In Pack File
#4394 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/02 01:23:00
After CDA project, I'm starting a new project based on DKT1/DKT4 episode texture sets. I have a small issue with these "fullbrights" texture, which are considered as "lights" ingame (i.e. FitzQuake), and which have a very bad look ingame (BTW I didn't modified the initial textures to fit Q1 palette... like I already did in CDA without so much problems)... I found a quick turnaround setting gl_fullbrights to 0, and also adding this setting in my config file (in order to not have typing the line in console each time I test the map)... Anyway..
My concern now is much more about the method to add this feature in a pack file: how to include a config file without causing troubleshouting with the player's current settings ?
OTOH, I could add a note stating that it is recomended to set gl_fullbrights to 0 in order to have a better rendering...
I guess the answer will be obvious, but I would like a good advice there ;) What do you think ?
Custom Config
#4395 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.163] on 2005/11/02 01:58:49
You can add the custom commands/cvars to a new xyz.cfg file, copy the original quake.rc file and insert a call to this xyz.cfg file just before or after the call to autoexec.cfg.
You put it before if you want to let the player's own settings override yours (nice) and after if you absolutely want to force the player to use your settings (less nice).
This way you can distribute a pak without forcing the player to modify his startup procedure and still get your console commands to run.
Both files xyz.cfg and quake.rc, you just put in the game directory outside the pak file to make it easy for the player to alter or get rid of them if he wants to.
You can of course also put them inside the pak in its root directory and finally put the whole pak as usual in the game directory.
In any case, be sure *not* to add or alter any other commands or the sequence in the quake.rc file, e.g. loading the map.
AguirRe
#4396 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/02 03:25:01
Thanks !
JPL
#4397 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.108.15] on 2005/11/02 04:05:30
For me at least, the answer is obvious... don't try to turn off my fullbrights... just fix the textures.
Its pretty easy to do it on a per-texture basis in TexMex... open the .wad file, select the texture you want, right click, adjust brightness, remove brites.
This should replace the fullbright color/s with the closest possible substitute in the palette. Unfortunately it seems you can only do one at a time this way, but perhaps someone else can suggest a way of doing a whole .wad at once.
Generally, this will probably produce acceptable results, but watch out for any dodginess (i.e. just make sure the program doesn't swap the colour to something completely inappropriate).
Its far preferable to modify the textures than to change the engine settings. Consider the following points:
- you can then also use fullbright textures on your buttons and lights
- Other people may copy and use the textures from your .bsp file
- doesn't require engine specific commands... gl_fullbrights 0 isn't going to do much for someone using WinQuake...
- I like fullbrights and I don't want you to turn it off for me!
Mr Fribbles
#4398 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/02 04:56:08
Regarding the DKT1/4 texture files size, considering I don't have TexMex installed, and also considering I don't know how to use it... (RTFM I know ;)... ), I guess it will take much more time to convert the texture to Q1 palette (one by one, unless there's a way to convert the full file at one time) rather than typing the gl_fullbrights 0 command into console...
OTOH, I can understand your point of view... And like you, I wouldn't like to change my personnal settings..
Furthermore, as you already noticed for my previous projects, I'm also very "slow" to produce a map (i.e remember CDA took me around 9 months, regardless of fullvis process runtime... I only map 1 or 2 hours per evening, and not all days of the week...:(... family stuff there...).. so "wasting" time to convert a wad file to Q1 palette sounds ungood to me... I would not like to spend 1 year before releasing another map...
In anyway, I will try to take a look to TexMex (download ans use), and see if it's possible to use it for a "massive" texture conversion... Otherwize, I will not use it... ;P
Thanks for your point of view :)
JPL
#4399 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2005/11/02 05:14:17
It's not like you are using thousands of textures, you can really easily eliminate fullbrights in TexMex, texture per texture, shouldn't take more than a couple minutes.
If you really wanted to you could set up a batch process in photoshop or something too, and do it all in one go (but you'd need to extract the textures from the wad first).
Looking forward to your next maps anyways. =)
N00b Texturing Questions
#4400 posted by iob [61.68.28.252] on 2005/11/02 07:24:50
answers are almost certainly easy but i found it frustrating trying to get textures showing up in gtkradiant.
i've installed the 1.5 beta from www.qeradiant.com, set the engine to quake, set the correct path and opened a .map file (it was bambuz's 108 speedmap), and all the textures are "not found". ok so i have to extract the textures from the .bsp file, or i can download something like quakewad.zip to get them (assuming the map uses only the original textures).
i downloaded quakewad.zip, opened the .map file again and all but one of the textures appeared in the "used textures" frame. i'm assuming the texture still "not found" was because it was a custom texture or quakewad.zip isn't the way to go.
so my first question is if something like quakewad.zip is a good way to get the original quake textures for use in an editor?
then when starting a new map and making a brush i want to apply a texture to it. with a brush selected i bring up the "surface inspector" and i can type a texture name in, and can't see a way to select a texture from any kind of list unless it was already used.
so my second question is if this is how you do it? or if things are configured correctly are all the available textures meant to be displayed in the texture menu after the separator?
Yeah
#4401 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/02 08:06:13
the lava texture is from the team fortress pak file. (pak0 or pak1.pak) Get the equake tf addon pak (from quakeworld.us) if you want that tex :)
You can rip textures of maps and paks with programs. One at least comes with worldcraft.
What Am I Talking
#4402 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/02 08:07:38
of course you can get the texture directly from the bsp too with some util... :P
Hehe
#4403 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/02 13:52:31
How do i prevent cracks on bezier patches?
how *do* i prevent that? :P
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
you can see that the highlighted patch doesn't match with the one joined to it (they are seperate patches)
how can i get them to have the same amount of sides so they line up?
Iob
#4404 posted by grahf [24.148.243.249] on 2005/11/02 16:08:01
Apparently, GTKRadiant 1.5 will read .wad files directly from quake's id1 directory. You would have to extract the textures out of a bsp file manually, with a program like Wally.
Gl_fullbrights 0
#4405 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/11/02 17:21:58
This will also disable fullbrights on torches, muzzle flares, and lightning bolts.
Thanks Grahf
#4406 posted by iob [61.68.28.252] on 2005/11/02 20:04:03
works perfectly.
Hehe
#4407 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/02 21:19:31
i'm hopelessly behind the times, but help me out here... :P
basically, for my d3 map, i wanted to have a few specific settings that will be used for that map only, and they are all cvars... (namely, wanting to tweak g_kickamplitude and g_kicktime a bit to reduce 'owl neck' and pm_walkspeed to a *ahem* proper movement speed.
is there some kind of way to exec a cfg file or something? i can't even get an autoexec.cfg file to work-- i added g_kicktime 0 to my autoexec, but it gets reset on every level anyway. :P
Necros #4403
#4408 posted by VoreLord [60.231.47.253] on 2005/11/03 00:41:49
Not sure if your serious or not..., but select your patch, press s, check subdivide patch and adjust horizontal to suit.
Re: Gl_fullbrights 0
#4409 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/03 02:02:02
This will also disable fullbrights on torches, muzzle flares, and lightning bolts
I didn't really see any big differences about what you mentionned here... errr... though the effect might be for sure different with different engines.. At the moment I only checked the command with aguirRe's engine and FitzQuake.. I will took a much more carefull look on this point...
In anyway, thanks for the tips.
In Doom3
#4410 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/11/03 08:03:53
what the hell is owl-neck? i've never played it, so i'd love some explanation :)
Owl-neck
#4411 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2005/11/03 08:40:06
When you take damage, your view swings around like crazy, which makes fighting the fast melee monsters quite annoying, as when they start inflicting damage to you, it becomes pretty damn hard to aim and fire at them properly to get them to shut the hell up.
#4412 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/03 08:49:30
Not sure if your serious or not..., but select your patch, press s, check subdivide patch and adjust horizontal to suit.
cool, thanks for that. i think i'm just blind, actually. o.0
Thanks Bal
#4413 posted by inertia [134.53.108.134] on 2005/11/03 22:41:39
Re: Re: Gl_fullbrights 0
#4414 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/03 23:57:29
This will also disable fullbrights on torches, muzzle flares, and lightning bolts
Metlslime, I checked what you said, and you were right (sorry, I would have to believe you... thousands apologies... :P... ).
However, I made further tests, and the results is I have to choose my textures very carefully. Then I guess I can keep gl_fullbrights 0 in my config file, just because:
1- My new project uses DKT1/3 texture sets which are globally base/modern textures (nothing like mediaval gothic stuff, only metal, computer, etc..) so I will use no torches... The idea is to try to be as consistent as possible, like I was with CDA using only DKT3 textures...
2- The "light-effect" rendering ingame (i.e using FitzQuake) can be balanced adding lights at judicious positions... I guess it wil be the same with other engines. I also made the test with flashing electric textures, and it was not bad at all IMHO...
3- I will try to avoid lightning bolt gun use in this map to solve the issue you mentionned above (removing it from the map is an option...)
In fact, I think the visual effect can be equivalent with or without gl_fullbrights set or not... I just have to take care about what I do..
I will post screenshots later to let you see the effects.. ;)
Um... JPL
#4415 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.108.15] on 2005/11/04 00:56:45
Dude. Seriously. Just fix the textures.
HL2 Displacements... Wtf!?
#4416 posted by therealthan [210.142.230.153] on 2005/11/04 04:30:36
Ok, is it just me, or do HL2 displacements actually suck complete arse? What the fuck is that TERRIBLE displacement editor in Hammer? Effectively a displacement has the flexibility of a patch in Max, but the tools are designed as to make editing its geometry in an kind of meaningful way a near impossibility.
Seriously fucking dissapointed... Is there any way I can move the displacement vertices around like vertices of a brush?
Or maybe someone has some handy tips or a link to a good guide...
JPL
#4417 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/11/04 08:50:02
It will be better if you fix the textures instead. It is very easy, even if you have no experience with TexMex.
Jpl:
#4418 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/04 08:50:30
shutting off fullbrights to fix crappy textures = cheap hack
fixing said textures = proper fix.
Oops
#4419 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/04 08:52:41
cross posted with rpg! :o
#4420 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2005/11/04 08:57:06
JPL ffs listen to fribbles
It takes 5 mins MAX and if you dont know how to do it ill do it for you ok? just come on irc or something and message me
Flamed In Flight... Arghh...
#4421 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/11/04 09:33:29
OK OK calm down please...... I downloaded TexMex yesterday, and I've just made a quick test some minutes ago. It sounds quite easy to modify textures while I still didn't find a Q1 palette related features to convert DKT textures... Is it existing at least ?? Unless it was this brightness adjustement feature... Well... I'll made further tests and I will see if it works well or not... The map is at its beginning, so there is around... hmmm.. 20 seconds of building (TxQBSP, fullvis, tyrLite)... so not a big deal to test the textures ;)
Fitz Won't Load My Speedmap
#4422 posted by bambuz [213.169.2.62] on 2005/11/04 14:13:01
call3 450 setsize setsize
plats.qc: plats_spawn_inside_trigger
plats.qc: func_plat
no function
backwards mins/max
host error:program error
fuh loads it. there is a plat in the map.
Bambuz:
#4423 posted by metlslime [209.213.199.133] on 2005/11/04 15:06:57
- send me the map.
- also, try it in aguirre's engine.
Than
#4424 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/04 18:39:27
Some tips:
- You need to use brushes of equal size if you want the displacement surfaces of two seperate brushes to attatch cleanly with no hassle.
- To move the displacement vertices as you would a single vertex on a brush, set the 'Radius' to 0 and the terrain tool snaps to the point where the vertices meet.
- Displacements don't work on brushes with more than 6 sides.
- Only select the face you need the displacements to show up on (as you would texture a single face) when you create your patch
http://blitz.circa1984.com/blitz_0...
http://blitz.circa1984.com/blitz_0...
You can make some very nice dirt piles and rock formations with a little work ;)
If you have any other troubles, get on #tf or send me an IM at 'lolleyballz'
JPL,
#4425 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.27] on 2005/11/04 21:28:50
I like the feel of those texture sets too. I'm curious, do you plan to use the base Quake monster set, or a mod with tech oriented monsters?
HeadThump
#4426 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/11/04 23:29:00
For the moment I didn't yet thought neither about monsters placement, nor items placement... I only started the architecture design... I also guess Quake base monsters should be enough, while I'm seriously thinking to use a CyberDemon for the last boss.... I get a mod where there is CyberDemon monster model, and I found it not bad at all (if I remember well, I find it in a Doom level remake named "Tower of Babel" done by Marc Fontaine... BTW who's this guy ? I never heard about him... )..
Anyway, I will see later how it could fit with the map.... and then I will decide if I include a (or more) cyberdemon in the map...
Thanks, Blitz
#4427 posted by therealthan [210.142.230.163] on 2005/11/05 02:14:25
I actually bothered to look online and found some helpful tutorials. It turns out that I don't have to move vertices with the crappy spraycan, and can use vertex edit mode to move them instead. Should be good! (proably crap though, I'm guessing)
Screens look interesting. Are you making a cs:s map?
FUCKING STUPID DISPLACEMENTS
#4428 posted by therealthan [210.142.230.148] on 2005/11/05 06:38:34
ok, so I was wrong about the vertex edit thing. You CANT edit the vertices directly, just use this stupid paint geometry shit, which doesn't even make sense. Why the hell to the vertices not move along the face normal when "face normal" is selected? Why can't I just position each vert where I fucking want them? Why do the verts move at about 5000 million miles an hour when I try to move them?
Ugh.
Re: Sm110 Bug
#4429 posted by negke [85.176.73.196] on 2005/11/05 06:42:14
i found it!
the crashes were indeed related to the teleporttrain. for it has to be triggered (be moving on its path) BEFORE it can be used as a teleport destination (at least with the mentioned engines).
but there is another catch: it has to be triggered some time before the teleportation, so just placing a trigger_once in front of the trigger_teleport won't do. apparently there has to be a delay of at least .2 or .3 between the triggerings, otherwise the game will crash.
i more or less fixed it with some temporary solution in the map, but it will work fine if it's used like in end.bsp. 'more or less', because the game still crashes with the same error message when the player comes too close to the moving teleporttrain in the tunnel (shoudn't happen though, because of spawning monsters).
this is probably not rooted in the progs.dat, i assume, as this bug only occurs in some engines and not in others, but i couldn't tell for sure. maybe it's just logically obvious - i don't know...
btw. aguirre: the map loads correctly and works in winquake-bjp's window mode, but it still crashes with "unbalanced unlock" in fullscreen mode for whatever reason.
Negike:
#4430 posted by metlslime [69.181.44.163] on 2005/11/06 01:42:03
this is probably not rooted in the progs.dat, i assume, as this bug only occurs in some engines and not in others, but i couldn't tell for sure. maybe it's just logically obvious - i don't know...
Is this the one you said wasn't a bug in fuhquake? Well, fuhquake has a totally different progs.dat becuase it's a quakeworld engine.
Quake, WC1.6, AguirRe's Latest Tools...
#4431 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/08 15:25:07
... latest mappage; BSP signals "Solid BSP", calculates Hull1, begins to calculate Hull2 then indicates a leak. First time I've come across this particular order of things. I've gone back in and simplified the geometry in the indicated area, no change. Pointfile only passes through brushwork at one place... the middle of a large solid floor brush?
Any ideas?
Prolly Everyone Klnows Already ...
#4432 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2005/11/09 02:01:16
http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/Lev...
must read for q4 (and d3 too ) mappers
Distrans
#4433 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.48] on 2005/11/09 02:29:38
You seem to have a hull 2 leak. Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .
Basically, the leak isn't visible and only shambler-sized ents will be able to detect it (by e.g. falling out). Inspect the brushes that intersect with the brush that the leak line penetrates. It's probably one of them that "pokes" a hole, especially if the intersection is non-axial.
If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Textures Wanted
#4434 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2005/11/09 05:18:34
hello i'm new here but i was wondering if there where some jungle, grass textures out there i could use or even maybe some prefabs jungle wice like say leafs and trees and such
if someone is wondering i'm trying to make a unusual quake dm map... as i always do ;) if you guys want to have a look at my previous maps go here http://www.geocities.com/elvstrom
hope someone can help me it's kinda hard to do stuff when your not sure what your doing ;)
#4435 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/09 11:43:02
o.k i´ve learn somethings and i already make some mapping... but got a problem what is rvis??? how to use it? i put the light´s and all the stuff but dont know how to use this...
any help?
Compile Programs
#4436 posted by bambuz [213.169.2.200] on 2005/11/09 12:48:48
id provided quake with three programs to compile maps to bsp:s with:
qbsp.exe - this makes the bsp
vis.exe - this makes the bsp faster to play by making it so that rooms not visible from the current room are not drawn. If map has leaks, vis aborts (sort of). If vis is not run, the map has really bad fps unless it's very small and simple.
light.exe - makes lightmaps for the map. If this is not run, the level is ugly fullbright.
rvis is another alternative for vis.exe. I think aguirre's utils have the actual filename as vis.exe. You just edit your editor's settings to use the aguirre's tools instead of the ones that came with the engine. You can read the readmes in the zip for how to use additional features.
Read the basic tutorials please.
Thanks AguirRe...
#4437 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/11/09 19:09:19
... my first Hull2 leak :) I'll check (and simplify) all contact with that floor brush before I send through a map + wad.
Elvis
#4438 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/09 22:56:12
You're probably out of luck on doing that style...the closest thing I can think of is take some textures from Vondur's Uzuldaroum http://wp.vondur.net/index.php?pag...
Quake isn't great at handling high-poly models without using a custom engine, and you would definitely need some custom code to get any sort of grass/leaf/tree models into the game in the first place.
#4439 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/10 01:34:54
thks bambuz, then i just have to run rvis :) is not something i have to add to the map :) the other stuff i think i´m making better every day... just wait for my next speedmaps :) they are getting better everyday!
did sm109 = crap
sm110 = less crap
sm111 = almost crap but not crap :)=
Triangles And Allocations
#4440 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/10 07:31:51
All necessary files at:
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
The map is just a 12-sided spiral where the floor is split into triangles. Just 24 triangles per circle.
It's pretty big.
1) I find that qbsp (fail to remember if it's tree or tx) really fucks up my map, it makes all kinds of crazy excess amounts of triangles from flat four-sided polygons (the walls of the spiral). Too bad I don't have a shot here, but if you load that spi7.bsp in fitz and put r_showtris 1, you'll see what I mean.
2) vis doesn't block other parts of the spiral very well, although it's absolutely clear that they can't be visible from the current location. I've run fullvis but not -level 4. Vanilla id vis gives a playable map only at even smaller map sizes (spi7van.bsp).
3) if the map gets big, neither fuh or fitz will load it, they complain of some malloc overflow or something similar. I have to put about three quarters of the map inside a solid cube for it to load. The original map is very high but it should not have big continuous areas. It does have brushes spanning almost the whole height of the grid (the outer and innver walls of the spiral) but they should be broken by qbsp anyway.
What to the help? Sky textures? I tried that on the outer wall, but it didn't help, at least not noticeably. Upscaling textures?
This morning (haven't tried it yet) I came up with a way to reduce some brushes (floor can double as the below-roof if I make the brushes thicker), but the result should be identical after the qbsp phase.
Why does it crash?
- And sorry metl for not investigating that plat thing further, it was a speedmap that I then abandoned since it was getting so much out of hand in idea and style. I don't have internet on my own computer so handling files is always a little hassle.
Theoretically
#4441 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/10 07:36:34
if qbsp tried to make the minimum amount of triangles, every 12-sided "storey" would only have 24 floor tris, 24 roof tris, 24 outer wall tris and 24 inner wall tris, that is total of 96.
Hm
#4442 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/10 07:48:50
it seems it's treeqbsp and aguirre's vis uses testlevel 4 by default if i read the logs right.
Bambuz
#4443 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.173] on 2005/11/10 08:19:43
It sounds like you have ye olde AllocBlock: full error in Fuh/Fitz. Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips for hints, engine section. Also, my engines can usually load such maps and they'll tell you how many lightmaps that are required.
And yes, my RVis defaults to level 4. Qbsp has nothing to do with vis levels.
Bambuz, Some Ideas:
#4444 posted by grahf [24.148.139.52] on 2005/11/10 09:59:56
I loaded your map into darkplaces, and looked around a bit with r_showtris 1.
1) Those aren't "excess" triangles. QBSP's subdivide size usually defaults to 256, and it appears to me that the massive surfaces of your structure were, for the most part, neatly subdivided into 256*256 blocks, each of which are further divided into two triangles for rendering. It just looks like the subdividing went crazy because your surfaces are so huge. You can change the subdivide size from qbsp's commandline, but I think if you set it really high, like 1024 or so, you'd get other errors besides the malloc/allocblock thing (maybe a subdivideface: didnt split the polygon?)
2) That's vis for you. sucks, doesn't it? You may be able to cut down on that very long visible distance if you put in some periodic retaining walls that radiate out from the center core of the spiral.
3) I ran into this with a similar map. My layman's guess is that some engines just hate large brushes, even if qbsp is supposed to subdivide them. Try breaking those brushes that are the size of the whole available grid into about 4 subsections and see what you get.
Lightmaps
#4445 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/10 10:21:15
Thanks for the help guys, I have a few more questions.
1) Lightmaps
Would it reduce them if I made more of the textures as sky? That isn't lightmapped, correct? I can also increase the tex scaling by 2 in both directions easily in the floor.
2) Triangelization or however it's written..
Well I'm still not at home and can't post shots, but it seems at times, a 4-sided polygon is taken from one corner and divided into twenty thin triangles or something.
3) How do I increase the subdivide size in qbsp? Didn't find any docs. Aguirre you could really compile even a short list of switches into the readmetree and readmetx files.
-subdivide 1024?
More Sky
#4446 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.196] on 2005/11/10 13:26:31
and/or increased tex scale will help reducing lightmaps. As for subdivide size, you set it with the -subdivide x option, although I definitely do not recommend messing with it.
You can get a brief option list with any of my tools by just running it without any parameters, results end up in the console window and in the log file (if any).
Thanks Aguirre And Guys!
#4447 posted by bambuz [213.169.2.190] on 2005/11/10 13:51:32
I increased the floor and roof tex scale to 4 in both directions and now it compiles and runs at full 77 fps in fuh (and 72 in fitz). I also removed some flat areas from the map and further reduced the brush count (151->102)...
Now this
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
still happens, but what can you do... :/
Neatly subdivides into 256 blocks since I was using 256 grid. 8)
The new version is in the dir as zip http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
After Briefly
#4448 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.248] on 2005/11/10 13:56:01
checking out the spi7 map, I'd suggest that you try to avoid sky brushes touching solids outside the map. Load up the map in my GLQuake, noclip outside and you'll see what I mean; huge textured faces covered in sky that probably generate a lot of lightmaps.
You should always avoid having visible faces outside a map, especially if they're big.
Ok
#4449 posted by bambuz [213.169.2.190] on 2005/11/10 15:55:46
I wondered the same too... I only changed them to sky because the map didn't run, i might be able to avoid it now.
Blitz
#4450 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2005/11/11 02:30:29
actually i've found a palmtree prefab on fileplanet and the lefs of that palmtree i've tryed to use but when i use say 4 leafs qbsp gives many errors and i have no clue where to actually begin but the map still runs smooth no errors in fuhquake atleast looks nice to it's just that it takes much longer to compile than it's supposed to
heres the error i get so far the first one i understand but the second... well heh no idea
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-288 -678 347)
*** WARNING 08: Healing point (538 -950 250) off plane by -1.27
^ that one is driving me nuts
anyway it still would be nice with some leaf textures oh and i've actually tryed to use thouse uzul textures but on this map it dosen't fitt :/
Metlslime
#4451 posted by negke [82.82.160.247] on 2005/11/11 03:12:31
not fuhquake. i said worked in fitzquake.
Third Take
#4452 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/11 05:31:20
Now it works as intended originally.
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
No messing with sky brushes. Why are they treated differently by qbsp anyway? If a normal brush touches another outside the map, those faces are discarded by qbsp, but if a sky does that, they are not. Why?
I Don't Know
#4453 posted by aguirRe [212.151.8.246] on 2005/11/11 06:50:35
but sky brushes (or rather, leafs) are handled separately by the engine, e.g. for animation/skybox, lightmaps and rocket collision. I guess it would be more difficult for the engine to do this if qbsp didn't also handle and mark them differently.
Also, note that the default sky presentation in FitzQuake hides the outside sky leafs if not r_oldskyleaf is enabled. Having such leafs will increase engine lightmaps and prolong Light processing time if any ambient lights are used.
Probably An Easy Solution
#4454 posted by Drew [216.168.124.119] on 2005/11/13 00:12:18
I just set WC up for Quoth, made a test map.
when I tried to run it, things didn't go smoothly. Actually, things didn't go at all.
All the process window said was this:
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\smblood.ma... "\smblood.map"
Does anybody know why? I don't. I'm probably just going to go to bed, because I'm too tired to try to figure this out right now.
Thanks.
Drew
#4455 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2005/11/13 06:07:49
That is quite possibly because you are using the map compilation front-end utility found in Worldcraft, which is known to be shit. Try using a *.BAT file.
Nah
#4456 posted by bambuz [213.169.24.75] on 2005/11/13 06:18:17
"f9" can be bearable at least for speedmaps.
(aguirre's vis defaults to level 4 and the light works reasonably too on default settings)
Uh Oh
#4457 posted by bambuz [213.169.6.226] on 2005/11/13 15:30:59
where did rorshach's textures go? Can anyone mirror or know the filenames at fileplanet?
The site at planetquake links to quakefiles.com which has a 404 error.
#4458 posted by Drew [216.168.124.119] on 2005/11/13 18:34:16
I have never, in my life, used anything to compile maps except for WC.
How do I use a .Bat file? Any other info I should know about?
Drew
#4459 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/11/13 18:51:55
Just to make sure, I fired up WC with the quoth.fgd, built a simple testmap and compiled with the standard WC compile window. No problems.
So if you've always used WC's compile mechanism, I don't understand why it would fail now.
First, and obvious, question: what compilers do you use?
Second: have you altered the setup in the Tools -> Options menus at all, since switching to the quoth.fgd?
Third: have you simply added the quoth.fgd to WC's list, or replaced the old fgds completely?
Using a batch file is not actually that difficult; the proof? I had to start using them when I switched to GtkR. So they must be easy :P
I'd hold off trying that solution atm though. I reckon there's a simpe solution to your current compile problem.
Drew
#4460 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/13 19:06:01
I recently wrote a fairly in depth guide to getting batch files set up to compile maps :
http://map-center.com/modules.php?...
Hope it helps
On Batch Compiling
#4461 posted by Jago [194.137.185.222] on 2005/11/13 23:36:52
Compiling using BAT files is really the way to go. I tend to tweak a lot of command-line options of my Quake compilers (compilation progress bars, skylight, minlight, other light options, transparent water, etc) so I just have 3 BAT templates that have my favourite compiler settings and I can just drop the map filename into the BAT and it works. Why 3 BAT files? For quick test compiles, "medium" and absolutely-best-quality full compiles.
Uh Yeah
#4462 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/11/14 00:26:50
You can actually do all that from within WC's compile options. Selecting 'Expert' allows you to create a set of compile 'templates', edit them and choose them from a list; it's just editing the batch files from within WC.
I use template batch files now too.
Either way is fine.
#4463 posted by negke [82.83.37.156] on 2005/11/14 01:00:06
1. is it possible to use the item functions with an info_notnull in order to give the player ammo etc. upon touching a trigger?
2. lights with a 'style' key can't be switched on/off?! can this be circumvented through qc? or is it an engine restraint?
WC Advanced Compiling Options
#4464 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/11/14 01:02:36
I use it. It is easy and gives you the possibility to switch of this or light or vis without editing batch files.
You can prepare any configuration you want (similar to creating a batch file) and then you can alter this configuration very easy if you want.
I usually use Alt-B to export changes to map, then press F9 to open the compile window and then I can choose what tools and options I would like to run. I have never encountered any bugs with this. Here is an example.
http://republika.pl/quake_1/WCadva...
Drew shouldn't you copy the compiled file to the quoth directory?
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\smblood.ma... "\smblood.map"
Ammo Triggers And Other Fun Things
#4465 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/14 04:14:30
Triggers that give ammo are possible with the notnull trick. Make a brush entity with these fields
classname info_notnull
think InitTrigger
nextthink 0.3
touch ammo_touch
weapon 2
aflag 30
netname nails
Weapon determines the ammo type, 1 to 4 for shells up to cells. Aflag is the amount of ammo to give. Netname is the text that goes after "You got the" that's printed in the top left, it doesn't have to correspond with the usual phrase. If you wanted to print "You got the ammo pack", that would work.
This trigger will only work once. If you want it to be reusable, then you'll need to do a bit more. Add these fields
targetname ammotrigger
use SUB_regen
Then have something target the ammotrigger once it's been used to reset it. You can have a trigger_relay targeted by the ammotrigger that targets it back after a delay to replicate respawning as in deathmatch, for example.
I think you can get around the style toggling restriction with QC if you are careful, but it's not easy. Quake has 64 possible light styles, controlled by a command like so:
lightstyle(3, "aja");
The first number tells the engine which lightstyle to change, and the string defines a kind of "animation" of the light. Each character in the string sets the brightness of the light for one frame, a being the darkest and z lightest. So this command would make any light with style 3 flicker on and off rapidly.
The style key you can set on a light gives it one of a predefined set of styles from world.qc. But any light that you make switchable is also assigned a style from 32 - 62 by the light program. The way the light is toggled is by changing the style between:
lightstyle(self.style, "a");
and
lightstyle(self.style, "m");
So if you were to toggle one light with a predefined style, you'd in fact turn off all lights with the same style. So to get round it, you'd need to make sure that your light gets toggled between off and the correct style.
The way I'd do that is something like:
void() light_use =
{
if (self.spawnflags & START_OFF)
{
lightstyle(self.style, self.netname);
self.spawnflags = self.spawnflags - START_OFF;
}
else
{
lightstyle(self.style, "a");
self.spawnflags = self.spawnflags + START_OFF;
}
};
/*QUAKED light (0 1 0) (-8 -8 -8) (8 8 8) START_OFF
Non-displayed light.
Default light value is 300
Default style is 0
If targeted, it will toggle between on or off.
*/
void() light =
{
if (!self.targetname)
{ // inert light
remove(self);
return;
}
if (self.style >= 32)
{
if (!self.netname)
self.netname = "m";
self.use = light_use;
if (self.spawnflags & START_OFF)
lightstyle(self.style, "a");
else
lightstyle(self.style, self.netname);
}
};
Replace the corresponding bit of code in misc.qc with that chunk of code. Then make the targetable light as normal without setting a style, but set the light's .netname to the sequence of lights you wish to display. You'll probably have to look these up in world.qc, for instance to get style 3 set
netname mmmmmaaaaammmmmaaaaaabcdefgabcdefg
The added bonus is you aren't restricted to the preset styles, you could define a new custom light style in this way, and it could be toggled.
Cool, Thanks!
#4466 posted by negke [82.83.46.104] on 2005/11/14 07:42:29
and does the item trick work with health and armor (possibly artifacts), as well? if it does, how can the different sizes be determined with touch_health and touch_armor?
Healthy Body And Mind
#4467 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/14 09:27:40
The same kinda trick works with health_touch, the important fields are:
healamount 20
healtype 2
noise items/health1.wav
along with the ones for setting up the weapon touch, the think and nextthink ones should be as before. Healamount is the amount of health that should be healed. Healtype 2 means the healing ignores the maximum 100 health, like a megahealth does, and will rot down again afterwards. However, be warned that the entity is now keeping track of when to count the player's health down, so don't allow it to be touched again/do anything else until enough time has passed for the health to rot away, ie 1 second for each hp you give the player plus 5 seconds start time. Setting healtype to anything but 2(including 0) will result in normal healing - none if the player is at full hp. Noise should be a sound that's already precached somewhere else.
Armor_touch cannot be exploited in this way, as the function relies on the classname of the entity, and there's no way round that if you're using an info_notnull. Key_touch is wide open, but doesn't make a lot of sense. Sigil_touch will also work.
Interesting aside...if you set flag one on a trigger_multiple, you can give it a touch field and not have it reset when it spawns. I can't see any obvious advantages of this over just making an info_notnull trigger, except that this doesn't use the think field. But somebody might be able to use this creativly...
And One Last Question For Today:
#4468 posted by negke [82.82.186.116] on 2005/11/14 11:07:48
regarding the triggerable trigger_changelevel trick czg posted in the progs.dat thread:
can a similar method also be applied to other triggers? e.g. to activate a trigger_once for a teleport ambush in an area the player has already passed before.
Who Triggers The Triggers?
#4469 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/14 11:22:06
This is possible. Make an brush entity info_notnull with the following fields
touch multi_touch
wait -1
targetname trig
use InitTrigger
target event
This trigger will not be spawned until trig is targetted. From then on it will act like a trigger_multiple when touched, although things like shootable triggers or triggering by targetting(like a trigger relay) will not. You can add all the usual fields like wait time. If you want sounds, you can't set the sounds field like usual, but if you set noise to the sound you want, it'll work assuming something else precached it.
You can probably adapt this to work for other kinds of trigger as well, not sure exactly which are possible though.
So You Know.
#4470 posted by Drew [216.168.99.107] on 2005/11/14 11:42:21
I've figured it out. thanks for all the help.
Preach
#4471 posted by negke [82.82.182.197] on 2005/11/16 10:51:03
thanks again. how could we ever map without you...
Senn Textures
#4472 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2005/11/17 03:05:50
where can i find senn's green textures? seems like daz has used them in his crdm3 map
Map Conversion
#4473 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/11/17 11:50:52
I've just downloaded some prefabs for Q2, HL, Q3, and I would like to convert them in Q1 map format. Is there a tool that can do that ? If yes: where can I download it ?
This Is Embarassing
#4474 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/18 01:59:37
It's been a while since I messed with Q3:A, but was tonight just for fun.
How do you rotate textures on a patch or a bevel? I've searched all over the place but have come up with nothing.
Map Conversion.... The Soluce...
#4475 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/18 02:56:03
FYI...
After a quick look to the 4 prefabs .map I downloaded yesterday, it sounds that one of the Q2 model has a problem of map format... Normally, a brush face is described like this (it's a copy paste of http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak... part 2.1.2...)
{
( 128 0 0 ) ( 128 1 0 ) ( 128 0 1 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 256 0 0 ) ( 256 0 1 ) ( 256 1 0 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 128 0 ) ( 0 128 1 ) ( 1 128 0 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 384 0 ) ( 1 384 0 ) ( 0 384 1 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 0 64 ) ( 1 0 64 ) ( 0 1 64 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 0 128 ) ( 0 1 128 ) ( 1 0 128 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
}
That's probably just a bit confusing when you first see it. It defines a rectangular region that extends from (128,128,64) to (256,384,128). Here's what a single line means:
( 128 0 0 ) ( 128 1 0 ) ( 128 0 1 ) GROUND1_6 0 0 0 1.0 1.0
1st Point 2nd Point 3rd Point Texture
Now, you're probably wondering what those last five numbers are. I've listed what they do below:
x_off - Texture x-offset (must be multiple of 16)
y_off - Texture y-offset (must be multiple of 16)
rot_angle - floating point value indicating texture rotation
x_scale - scales x-dimension of texture (negative value to flip)
y_scale - scales y-dimension of texture (negative value to flip)
But taking a look to the Q2 map file I found 8 values after the 3 parenthesis section, instead of 5 as described above ... o_O ... I can understan a 6th value if the texture has been rotated differently on its 2 axis, but 8 !!!.. What does it mean?? So I heavily suppose the issue is coming from there: i.e I have a TxQBSP error stating map file have an error... and it correspond to the line where the first brush coordinates is written...
Well, the prefab has only 26 brush, so I think it's not a big deal to change it manually in any text editor.... and made a quick test to see if I'm right or not... ;)
Q2 To Q1 Conversion Tool
#4476 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.104] on 2005/11/18 03:25:19
is here:
http://rem.fov120.com/rem/projects...
Conversion To Q1
#4477 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.60] on 2005/11/18 03:56:11
can also be made using my ConvMap utility or QuArK. If you just want to compile a Q2/Q3 map, just add the -q2map qbsp option.
Spirit / AguirRe
#4478 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/18 04:52:13
Thanks ! I will try all the stuf this evening ;)
Blitz
#4479 posted by BlackDog [220.235.130.101] on 2005/11/18 08:17:51
Select the patch, bring up the patch inspector (shift+S) and hit the rotate up/down thingy. That's for gtk1.4, but other radiant versions should behave the same.
Triggering Problems.
#4480 posted by Drew [216.168.125.179] on 2005/11/18 13:15:45
I'm making a quoth map, and I've got a counter triggered by 2 "bob"s. They don't seem to trigger it, and I'm not sure why. I have the same problem at another part of the map where an Ogre is supposed to trigger a door. And he doesn't...
Anyone have any ideas as to why this is?
Doesn't Work In GTK 1.5 Latest Build BlackDog
#4481 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/18 19:01:38
[nt]
I Cant Do Shit
#4482 posted by p.d [67.42.28.160] on 2005/11/18 19:13:25
i need help! every time i try to do a quake level, i get as far as 3/4 rooms or so. i have tons of unfinished shit lying around. i tried more than 100 times to put these chunks together into one fucking map, but i cant do it! im stuck.
sometimes i get all these ideas or im really inspired, but i still cant finish anything. i only got one map finished, a really small base map. and i got reviewed! hehe but man, i cant do this! :-'(
what should i do? give up? destroy and smash? like hulk? gahea?E?
Sounds Like...
#4483 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/18 19:18:18
you're right one track! ^_^;
seriously, i have maps that i started a year ago that are just sitting until i can get the urge to finish them.
i think, as a purely hobby mapper, that this is usually how things go.
if you're doing it for a job, well, then, you don't get that kind of luxury. :P
in fact, i'm kind of curious:
pro mappers: how much do you throw away and restart, and how often? or are time constraints so tight that you can't even afford to do that, and have to continue something that you'd rather restart?
Good Question
#4484 posted by Drew [216.168.125.179] on 2005/11/18 21:42:40
Also, I wonder... what about my question. I'm feeling woeful and uncared for.
Aaaw
#4485 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/11/18 22:31:24
I've got a counter triggered by 2 "bob"s.
I just built this setup. Twice; one in GtkR using the .def and one in WC using the .fgd
Both worked fine.
Could be the "count" value you used..?
Nope.
#4486 posted by Drew [216.168.125.179] on 2005/11/19 12:08:39
Count *is* at 2.
No Lettee Passee
#4487 posted by Mike Woodham [86.139.191.23] on 2005/11/19 13:39:34
What can I use as a barrier that will allow monsters through but block players
Okee Dokee
#4488 posted by Mike Woodham [86.139.191.23] on 2005/11/19 13:45:37
Never mind. Opened mouth without engaging brain. Got it sorted now.
(took me longer to ask the question than find the answer)
Drew
#4489 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/19 15:43:08
have you checked what you are targetting with the trigger_counter? maybe the triggered entity is broke?
Too Many Static Entities
#4490 posted by Mike Woodham [86.139.191.23] on 2005/11/20 03:26:39
OK, I know what the implications are but what about if I remove 'makestatic (self);' from a couple of the lighting models? I have done this on several of them and my Too Many Ents crash goes away and the map seems to run normally.
But what effect am I having on other things i.e. why do some of the lighting models have this entry anyway? e.g. large flames, small flames, wall torches etc
Well
#4491 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/20 09:01:18
i think one of the reasons is to reduce internet traffic when your playing net games. i think the makestatic tells the server to completly ignore that entity and never send it to any clients and let the clients handle it.
also, if you remove it, that makes that entity take up an edict. remember you have a 600 edict limit to work with, so be mindful of that. if your map is small, and only for SP, than you could probably get away with it.
OK...
#4492 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/20 20:59:37
... what's the trick to pulling down a file from the old ftp.cdrom.com?
Pff
#4493 posted by . [69.217.59.200] on 2005/11/20 21:16:58
It's like that site doesn't exist anymore. I've had much luck usually at some .SE site though, like sunset or sun something...
Thanks Phait...
#4494 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/20 21:18:42
... there's some trick of replacing part of the url that makes the files accessible, I just can't remember what it is.
Something Like This
#4495 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/20 23:18:29
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/id...
Weird
#4496 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/21 01:42:26
This might be nothing new to some of the editing veterans on the board who may have encountered this, but it caught me off guard a bit.
http://blitz.circa1984.com/curves....
I was messing around with some "hand made" (everything aligns on a 4 unit grid) curves, when I noticed a) the void sparklies in the 3D window b) the fact that when I zoomed all the way in on the XY view, none of the brushes actually aligned properly!
So, I dragged up the outside "circle" of it as a wall to seal it off, and copy+pasted the floor for the ceiling to test if dmap would leak if they were sealing brushes, and as I thought, it [i]didn't[/i] leak. In addition, the "sparklies" were not visible in the map.
My question is, why does D3edit render them as not joining together correctly?
Blitz
#4497 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/21 01:58:32
Well, AFAK when you make a copy paste of a brush, and then rotates it, the coordinates floating part of each points sometimes are not aligned on grid anymore, and then zooming closely, you will find a "hole" at the joining faces... o_O ...
I had the same disappointing effect in QuArK, just try to force to grid each points, it would be enough to solve the issue in the editor at least...
I Don't Think So JPL
#4498 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2005/11/21 02:04:01
I did the same exact method in GTKRadiant and when zoomed into the max, everything still lines up, and it doesn't have the "sparkly" effect in the 3d window either.
So it's something with D3edit I think...
Excuse My Ignorance
#4499 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/21 03:33:32
but I guess
1) the 3d renderer just isn't so precise in that.
2) The compiler must be.
3) the engine has the benefit of using the compiled maps where these surfaces probably share coordinates/vertices (they were combined in the compile phase)
?)But somebody (aguirre?) said earlier that in q1 at least, faces are at some point stored as not vertices but as planes with a surface normal somehow and then if you have very small slope adjustments in small grid (like say, a 1001 in 1002 units slope, 44.999 deg) then it can get fucked (because it gets stored as 1001/1001, 45.000 deg), and that's why you should stick to big grids in non-perpendicular architechture.
#4500 posted by necros [142.150.45.229] on 2005/11/21 10:12:15
yeah, i see that in d3edit often too. i think it has to do with the dynamic light stuff, because when it's off, the sparklies go away.
i just tend to ignore any problems until they start showing up in the game. :P
Distrans
#4501 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.213] on 2005/11/21 12:14:23
Did you get my email reply to your hull 2 leak issue? I've sent it three times now.
<- This One Is For Bambuz...
#4502 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/21 17:08:37
Thanks heaps! That is exactly what I needed.
AguirRe...
#4503 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/21 17:13:01
...received at both latrobe and gmail, thankyou. I'm trying some of your suggestions (and some from Jack). I'll get back once I've definitively succeeded or failed.
Preach
#4504 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.12] on 2005/11/23 04:09:50
Do you know why having a Q1 entity selecting its mdl by random in the spawn function will cause later reloaded savegames to mix up the models in-game? Typical symptoms are monsters replaced by ammo boxes or similar. The mixed up models is a problem that has occurred in several paks (e.g. SoE), but I've never quite understood why it happens.
I've now an old pak (After The Fall) that has this problem immediately in the first map after reloading a savegame. There are some func_rock entities that can have one of two mdls, selected in the spawn function by the random() built-in. If I replace this logic with one that will always select the same mdl for this particular entity (based on its origin key), the messed up models problem seems to disappear.
I've added warnings for this issue in the engine loadgame function to make it more obvious when it happens, but I still don't understand exactly why it occurs. I suspect it's related to the engine model lists (precached or otherwise) that go out of sync with the edict order in the savegame file, but I haven't been able to pinpoint it.
Any ideas?
Possible Explanation
#4505 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/23 05:30:36
The list of models is built in the order they get precached, and I'm guessing that these models will get precached in a random order depending on which one gets generated first in the map. Is it possible that when the map gets reloaded both get precached at once? this would bump any model that's precached between the first rock and the second one model up. This bug more frequently occurs(rather understandably) when you use a new patch for mod with an old save game, and the patch adds things to the precache list.
One thing you might want to test is precaching both rock models in worldspawn, regardless of whether there are rocks in the map. Then see if the same model bug occurs with a new save game. Of course, this will break all previously saved games under the old patch whether they had rocks or not, so might be best to do it with a copy of the mod...
If that doesn't fix it, I'll admit I'm not entirely sure what's going on. You might have more luck asking people on inside3d, no doubt Frik or Lord Havok will have a solution.
Thanks For The
#4506 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.59] on 2005/11/23 06:31:10
comments. I don't think both mdls can be precached simultaneously, there's no such parallelism in the engine that I know of. And I know the issue with invalidating savegames when modifying progs.
It's easy to test as it happens immediately in the first playable map (atfe1m1). When reloading the savegame, I either get:
1. No problems
2. Mixed rock mdls (not very visible)
3. Many mixed mdls (very visible)
I'll try the worldspawn precaching to see if that makes any difference.
Simultaneous Precache
#4507 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/23 06:46:12
I didn't quite explain what I meant by simultaneous there. What I meant was that both models might get precached within the same single spawn function one after the other. Like when the map loads, maybe rock 1 gets precached, then some other entities get their models precached, then rock 2 gets precached for another rock later on. But when the game gets reloaded from the save, it just precaches both rocks one after the other as soon as it loads the first entity from the save game. I don't know why it would behave like that, ignoring the if/else statements in the random part of the function to reconstruct the model list, but it would be an explanation for the behavior.
Hmm
#4508 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.111] on 2005/11/23 10:36:45
The stable worldspawn precaching seems to cure the problem, too (I now restored the random mdl logic again). This might lead to the theory that any conditional spawn precaching might cause the messed up models in savegames ...
I still have another ATF issue as well; sometimes it triggers a progs validation fault while running, accessing an invalid edict. I don't think it's related to the other issue, though.
Bit Of A Better Fix Then
#4509 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2005/11/23 11:06:54
If you don't want the models precached in worldspawn, but only when the rocks are actually used in a map, you could precache both models at the start of the spawn function, before you randomise them. That should work just as well. It does mean you have a wasted precache if none of the entities generate one of the rocks, but I can't see any way round that without breaking save games, at least until we know for sure what causes it.
I Knew It
#4510 posted by czg [81.225.3.195] on 2005/11/23 11:15:42
Even in code, ATF is pure evil
Heh
#4511 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.54] on 2005/11/23 11:39:16
One can indeed question the quality of this and other contemporary mods, but they actually offer good test material. But one of the maps in ATF is probably the most messed up piece of junk I ever saw.
The mapper must've been completely unaware of the subtle differences between various basic ents, having a func_illusionary as a platform, several solid teleporters, SK door without any SK in the map and teleporters/pushers in the most unexpected places, throwing the player around the map at random ...
Interestingly enough, there are several key objects (e.g. sounds, symbols and archgaunts) in Nehahra that seem to have originated from this mod.
I Think I Know What Map You're Talking About
#4512 posted by czg [81.225.3.195] on 2005/11/23 12:02:52
And I think it is because the author did an -onlyents compile before release and didn't bother to check that half the map broke because of it. (messed up modelindexes, etc)
Anyway, playing that mod feels like getting cancer, AIDS and cerebral palsy at the same time, so I've only played it, like, thrice.
You're Probably
#4513 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.98] on 2005/11/23 14:37:48
referring to atfe2m2, which indeed has many model errors when re-lighting it (conflicts between the model and entity lumps, probably due to the -onlyents run or similar). That map actually works without any obvious problems.
The map I was referring to is the one after that, atfe2m3. I have no idea how it could be produced by mistake or corruption.
I've also mowed my way through Fantasy Quake and X-Men recently and there's a lot of unique and un-Quakey material in there. Must've been a lot of work creating it ...
After Checking
#4514 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.100] on 2005/11/23 15:56:47
the atfe2m3 map again, I realize that you're probably right about the messed up entities. If I start to shuffle things around and change modelindexes, the brush ents suddenly start to make sense. Argh ...
#4515 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/24 02:31:56
aguirRe can u explain how can i make this work...
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/03.jpg
;(
Txqbsp.exe
and light.exe work fine but vis give me this error prt fucking file...can u please explain what does that mean? thks in advance!
Uh...
#4516 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2005/11/24 02:38:01
Obviously your map has a leak... Find it, fix it.
Trinca
#4517 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/24 02:46:40
Go into your Quake/tmpQuArK directory (or where the compiled map, etc.. are located... normaly the stuff should be there),
Remove all the files..
Relaunch TxQBSP only (from QuArK)
Launch Quake from QuArK
In quake console type pointfile
A doted white lined should appear: follow it and you will find the leak...
BTW, I'm very surprised that QuArK didn't show you the leak by a red arrow before !!
Hope it helps...
#4518 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/24 02:52:09
sorry but what means leak :) something like a escape? hole?
Trinca
#4519 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/24 02:53:40
A leak is equivalent as a "hole" in map: if the map is not correctly sealed, you got a leak... So seal the map, and the issue is solved ;)
Leaks
#4520 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/24 03:02:02
this is basic mapping stuff, the manuals have stuff on it.
copy the .pts to the same dir as the .bsp (quark might do this automatically, wc does), load fitz and the map and type pointfile in console and it should show the leak.
#4521 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/24 03:07:36
got it thanks guys :) and many thks to JPL that help me out in a hard thing last night ;)
Woah
#4522 posted by Spirit [213.39.211.53] on 2005/11/24 03:17:29
I didn't know about that "pointfile" command... Thanks!
and many thks to JPL that help me out in a hard thing last night ;)
Got trouble where only a french guy could help, eh? :D
#4523 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2005/11/24 03:22:47
ehehe no,no at this point was the only one that help me out with no limits... :) vondur refuse to help me... but i kick his ass "sometimes" in dm´s :) to revenge!
Heh
#4524 posted by negke [82.82.173.178] on 2005/11/24 05:14:12
i can't remember the last time i had to use the pointfile - quest's leak detection is sweet. the other editors must have such a function, as well...?
Spirit
#4525 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/11/24 06:31:04
Racist ! ;P
Seeking Q1 TDM Players
#4526 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2005/11/27 15:32:25
I am currenly working on a TDM map, which is a remake of my Q1SP map titled "Apinaraivo / Monkey Rage". I am looking for experienced Q1 TDM players to gather gameplay feedback on the map. If you would like to help, either post here or get in touch via email.
What's Up With...
#4527 posted by negke [82.83.48.51] on 2005/11/28 13:01:56
...the trigger_teleport? when there are multiple teleports at once only one has tfog (or at least not all of them). when the silent flag is set at least one of them makes a sound and has tfog. this sucks.
...aguirre's qbsp? it enables transparent water and sky even if the -transwater and -transsky options are not used.
Neg
#4528 posted by bambuz [213.169.30.21] on 2005/11/28 15:20:56
use the other (tx vs tree)
Neg
#4529 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/11/28 16:02:05
silent flags on teleporters doesn't affect the teleport affect at all, rather, it determines whether the ambient sound is played.
as for flashes not appearing when multiple teleports are in progress, that's an engine limitation. not enough particles to go around.
i think you can change that by adding -particles 50000 or something like that to the command line, but i don't really remember.
Neg!ke
#4530 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.19] on 2005/11/28 16:07:35
TreeQBSP's default setting is non-transparent (opaque) liquids. If you're seeing something else in-game, the map is probably not vised or you're using a custom engine that disregards vis info.
Both Tx/Tree compilers can be set either way.
Necros / Bamguirre
#4531 posted by negke [82.83.56.20] on 2005/11/28 23:14:11
ok, i already suspected the missing flashes to be an engine limitation. nevertheless multiple silent teleporters do make a sound.
my bad about the qbsp thing. i switched to txqbsp at some time (maybe because it has -oldaxis enabled by default = good) and forgot about it. -nowatervis is the key here. in treeqbsp water is indeed opaque without -transwater. the sky, however, is always transparent with both.
Sky Is Never
#4532 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.122] on 2005/11/29 02:04:43
transparent according to vis AFAIK. I don't even know what the -transsky option does. Again, what you might be seeing is probably engine related.
Some engines don't render animated sky leafs properly and others have issues with skyboxes, which is an old Q2 bug.
#4533 posted by negke [82.82.173.192] on 2005/11/29 05:13:22
transparent sky means that (the sky brush appears non-solid and) projectiles are removed upon touching it. this feature is always determined through qbsp - older versions always made the sky a solid surface (see id levels). so maybe the -transsky option is just a remainder of the time when it this feature was new and its usage had to be carefully considered by the mapper. i don't know...
OK
#4534 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.134] on 2005/11/29 06:11:10
but then you're talking about different things. Transparent means you can see through it after vis is run, therefore the sky is always opaque. It's also solid in the sense that most entities collide with it, except e.g. rockets. Even grenades bounce off sky.
However, you're right about older qbsps not setting the CONTENTS_SKY attribute for sky leafs, thereby invalidating sunlight in newer light tools. In my Light you can workaround it by adding the -solidsky option.
And Tree's -transsky doesn't affect the CONTENTS_SKY attribute, I think it tries to set the sky leafs transparent (like liquids), but the engines don't care it seems.
You can however add the -solid qbsp option to remove all liquids and force sky to be "oldstyle" solid again. This can help loading some troublesome maps in normal engines and ease leak hunting. There's also the -noents option to remove all entities except world and players.
One Thing About The Skies
#4535 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/11/29 06:24:52
If you load dm3 and noclip/spectate above the map, you can still see the megahealth hill from outside the map. Ie, the sky brushes behave just like solid walls in that they have no "other side" so they are transparent from outside. Same with all id stock maps.
This doesn't happen in ztndm3, the sky brushes block all visibility if you float out. That happens actually in ~any new map.
Why is this?
I'm sorry, I haven't tested at all if this is (vanilla/tx/tree) qbsp's or whatnot's fault (I still don't have net at my own comp and am lazy as hell)
I recently made this big spiral test map and had problems with sky textures causing lots of extra lightmaps and I'm now asking did id actually do stuff originally differently so that there weren't any new lightmaps, and if, why isn't it so anymore?
This Is Because
#4536 posted by negke [82.82.176.48] on 2005/11/29 07:18:32
as we said, the older qbsps treated sky brushes just like regular brushes, i.e. only the face on the inside is visible.
newer qbsps leave the entire sky brush intact and add the contents_sky attribute. it is then treated like a water brush in some way - at least this is what i think regarding the splash sound when grenades bounce off (...probably nonsense - should have waited for aguirre to anwer)
in fitzquake the sky brushes do not block visibility from the outside btw
aguirre: thanks for clarifying. it should be mentioned, however, that projectiles are removed at the back face of the sky brush (the one at the outside, so to speak). therefore, if the sky brush is not deep enough one can still see the impact of shells and nails. grenades bounce off at that face as well and when they pass the front face again there is the splash sound.
this also makes me wonder why the engine can't recognise a grenade touching a water volume just like that and no only after it has bounced off some wall (splash sound again), but i guess this has already been explained to death. ;)
You Don't Have To
#4537 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.14] on 2005/11/29 08:16:40
(and shouldn't) "back up" sky brushes with solids; sky seals just as well. In that case, I don't think you can see any rocket detonation no matter how thin the sky brush is.
As said earlier, there are a *lot* of different engine opinions (and cvars) of how sky should be rendered, so any observation must be with that in mind.
The splash sounds is also another weird matter, with some engines or bot paks you'll hear splashing noises continuously throughout the entire level even if there are no liquids anywhere near you.
Right
#4538 posted by negke [82.82.176.48] on 2005/11/29 08:57:21
i didn't say anything about "backing up" sky brushes with solids. no question, that's pointless.
there are no explosions of course, rockets are removed upon touch, but shotgun impact sometimes shows on 'thin skies'. everything works perfectly fine with sky brushes that are 32+ units high.
let's just blame the engines before we continue talking past each other... :)
OK
#4539 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.39] on 2005/11/29 11:10:37
.
Nostalgia....
#4540 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2005/11/29 11:27:43
i didn't say anything about "backing up" sky brushes with solids. no question, that's pointless.
Believe it or not, back in the old days (1997) you had to do this if you wanted sky to absorb projectiles -- qbsp used to make sky brushes on the outside of the world into solid leafs.
Gom Jabbar
#4541 posted by Lunaran [24.241.228.159] on 2005/11/29 18:25:37
Gom asked about q4 editing in IRC when I wasn't around so he wasn't available when I came home to reply, so here goes:
Yes, there are good reasons why the Q4 DM maps are blocky and scant on detail. It was deemed that the best looking way to texture in Q4 was the very discrete, panelized look of q2 and d3, where almost no textures end in any edges without a bevel or a crease. Thus whole texture sets were made like that, and there's limits to how crazy you can be that way. When I was thrown into the DM pool the exact phrase given to me was "Let the textures do the work." If you look around Q4 you'll probably notice a lot of repeated workhorse type textures (like that dark grey trim) on the edges of damn near everything, because it's one of the only textures that repeats along an axis.
I'm looking forward to custom maps with custom texture sets by artists that decide to ignore panelization in favor of textures that repeat without panel seams on one or both axes, because then we'll see more inventive designs (not to say that the raven maps aren't such) with slanty wierd brushwork and stuff. That's what I perceive as the only real limitation to more detailed architecture anyway.
On scale, I keep instinctively building to a q1/q3 scale and it always winds up feeling way too tight. A 128x128 hallway is now small, because the bbox is 72x32x32 (I think) and the viewheight is 68 (I think). 192 is a good place to start with hallways, and atria wind up seeming gargantuan in the editor grid but appropriate in game.
Fire away with more questions. If I build up a big enough battery of responses I could put it all together and stick it on the Q4 SDK page.
Thanks Lunaran
#4542 posted by Gom Jabbar [80.143.178.163] on 2005/11/30 09:54:56
That answered my first questions but you'll surely have to suffer from more as soon as they come up.
The biggest problem I currently have is the following: At the moment I'm working with the ba_ textures - the ones used in the stock DM map Sandstrom - and no matter what I do, my map looks almost identical to Sandstorm.
Why? Easy: As Lunaran already said there's almost no way around the dark grey trim texture to bring some structure to your map. You can design different panel styles but having to use that trim texture makes it hard to set your map apart from others.
Anyway, I should stop whining and get back to mapping.
Cruxified Zombies...
#4543 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/11/30 14:50:33
How can I place them in a horizontal position (facing up) without:
A) knowing any QC
B) editing the MDL
There once was a map where the torches were all turned upside down (like the level itself). Maybe it can be done like that somehow?
Thanks in advance :)
Generic...
#4544 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2005/11/30 16:31:49
...give the entity an 'angles' field with value '90 0 0' that should work, otherwise muck around with the value numbers till you get the effect you want. I think the three attributes for the values numbers are <tilt> <null> <offset>
cheers!
Distrans
#4545 posted by negke [82.83.55.140] on 2005/11/30 23:40:00
hey, thx.
this is a pretty cool trick that also works on all other models, like monsters, torches and flames (as you said), exploboxes, trap_shooters. rotating models like the weapons work, as well, but placing them correctly can be tricky. lava balls and air bubbles don't seem to be affected.
giving a teleport_destination stranges angles results in twisted view and controls for the player, as we already know.
Cheers, Distrans!
#4546 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/12/01 06:21:43
:)
BTW
#4547 posted by generic [69.244.212.159] on 2005/12/01 09:19:28
'Angles' works like 'mangle,' <pitch> <roll> <yaw>.
Using <90> <-90> <0> gave me a crucified zombie on his back, facing up, with his head pointed North and his feet pointed South.
Hmmmmm...
#4548 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2005/12/06 21:35:36
...if someone was to send me Kell's 'Labyrinthus' skybox for Quake I'd be ever so thankful.
Light.exe Question
#4549 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/12/07 20:43:37
sunlight is cast as lightstyle 0, right?
... what about minlight?
in theory, you could make all normal lights be, for example, style 63, instead of 0. then code a thingy to flash lightstyle 0 every once in a while, and that would affect only sunlight and minlight, right?
They're Both
#4550 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.39] on 2005/12/08 01:07:59
style 0, yes. As for the effects, I don't know.
Yes
#4551 posted by Preach [86.136.47.214] on 2005/12/08 05:51:06
Just rewrite the code for the custom lightstyles so that style 1 is simply "m", rather than whatever it was originally - some kind of candle flicker I think. Then just make sure every light in your map has lightstyle 1, the only thing that won't be affected is minlight and sunlight as you say. You could then make an entity to do the flashing, but the best place to do it would be in StartFrame(). Just have a global for the time to the next flash. If time > that global + 0.1, reset style 0 and generate the time for the next flash. Else if time > that global, change style 0 to a bright light and wait. Otherwise do nothing.
Afterthought
#4552 posted by Preach [86.136.47.214] on 2005/12/08 05:56:54
Of course, that sketch of the code doesn't include a thunderclap, which is a dreadful omission. Now, at first it may look a little difficult to include a sound, if you play it when you brighten the lights, then it might start playng several times, as most people have a high enough fps these days to have multiple frames in 0.1 seconds. Instead, make the sound play when you reset the light style to "m", that way it will only play once. This may sound like a compromise, but if you think about it, it makes more sense, as you see the lightning before you hear the thunder : - ).
Lightning
#4553 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/12/08 08:11:07
So there is no simple way to incorporate lightning and thunder in a quake map? I mean without coding, just using some "Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks" method?
Actually...
#4554 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/12/08 08:37:29
i think there might be a way, sort of...
but it wouldn't be random, it would only happen when triggered.
you could put in an ambient_thunder, this will precache the thunder sound, even though the entity itself never worked.
then, make a door with the 'noise' key set to the thunder sound, then you trigger the door and flicker the lights (have a relay to switch the lightning lights off again)
anyway, i was just fiddling around with an idea i had to make thunder easier to implement, but i think having to make mappers put all normal lights to a lightstyle other than 0 is probably annoying.
Random Events
#4555 posted by Preach [86.143.31.112] on 2005/12/08 10:28:19
You can have things triggered at random intervals with a lovely little hack. Make a big room with a gib spawner and a trigger_multiple with the hack to make it trigerable by anything that touches it. Set up the trigger so that it will sometimes be hit by the gib, but not every time. Then have it spawn gibs at a suitable frequency. Every time one hits the trigger, you get a burst of lightning.
In addition, wouoldn't it be possible to write a custom light exe(well, hack the existing ones abit) so that minlight and skylight also generate a lightmap for style 32, which is always fullbright wherever it is hit. Combine this with the above and a single switchable light(which should be style 32 itself), and you'd have the whole package without modifying the progs.
Or...
#4556 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2005/12/08 12:20:35
It is possible to light a map without minlight or sunlight ... i've done it. The trick is to use regular lights, some of which are up in or near the sky brushes.
Then you can set all lights intended to represent sky light to the same targetname.
Gom
#4557 posted by Lunaran [24.241.228.159] on 2005/12/08 17:18:59
no matter what I do, my map looks almost identical to Sandstorm.
That's why they're only used one and a half times. :)
Try pairing them with some /stroyent textures. stroy_pillar2 and stroy_pillar2_alight are your best friends. Try something new with the lighting too - see if cool colors look any good with the orangy rust.
Necros, Metl & Preach
#4558 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2005/12/09 03:59:33
Thanks.
That's what I was thinking about. Some flickering lights triggered by a trigger. The triggers could be placed in some chosen places to get the best effect.
I have a question about setting up the "thunder door". What should be the exact value of the 'noise key'?
The event could be also triggered by an semi-random logical gate.
Different Sounds For Doors
#4559 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2005/12/10 01:19:19
Not my own invention but I don't know where it comes from...
"classname"-"func_d...
"angle" "-1"
"target" "extranoise"
"sounds" "0"
"classname" "info_notnull"
"targetname" "extranoise"
"use" "train_wait"
"wait" "-1"
"sounds" "1"
"noise"-"items/armo...
This gives the door an armour sound when opening.
It doesn't work with thunder because the thunder sound itself is broken: not looped and therefore does not pre-cache. I think...
Uh?
#4560 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2005/12/10 01:21:05
Why did it truncate 'door' and 'armor.wav'?
Easier Method
#4561 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2005/12/10 03:01:18
Set "sounds" to "5", and "noise" and "noise2" (IIRC) to the .WAVs you want to play. Must be precahced.
Czg
#4562 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2005/12/10 03:43:12
How do you pre-cache sound from the editor i.e. no QC? (I think this is what Ankh wants)
Pre-cache
#4563 posted by Ankh [83.17.205.242] on 2005/12/10 04:50:19
I was thinking that to pre-cache something you have to put it somwhere into the map. So I just have to put the ambient_thunder entity somewhere. I will try that out.
With Hammer it should be easy to set the sounds for the door. It has the required fields implemented with the fgd file already, I think.
#4564 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2005/12/10 09:17:53
yeah, like i said, even though the thunder sound entity is broke, it still precaches the sound.
keep in mind that players will see that warning about non-looped sounds everytime they play your map. :\
Coming From The Progs.dat Thread...
#4565 posted by Spirit [213.39.156.89] on 2005/12/14 04:40:09
What is a "skip texture"?
Skip To My Lou, My Darling...
#4566 posted by Preach [86.129.228.125] on 2005/12/14 05:53:00
Skip in other engines is a very handy texture you can apply to surfaces, and the surface is simply ignored at compile time, it doesn't get rendered or lit or anything. It's usually used for edges of scenes where the player shouldn't be able to reach, but that aren't culled when the map is built. If you try noclipping around some of the HL2 maps, for instance, you can see how the backs of buildings are entirely skipped because the player can't get to a position to see them.
Of course, quake doesn't have skip by default, but tyrann wrote a program that works as a good substitute:
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/...
If you run this extra tool on your map, any face that has a texture named "skip" will be removed from the visible hull, although it will still clip, block visibility and so on. It's quite a handy addition to the quake toolkit.
Preach
#4567 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2005/12/14 06:56:36
What does a Q1 mapper gain by using this tool?
Errr....
#4568 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/12/14 07:40:20
Preach, regarding your explanations, either skip textures sounds to be like clip texture, and maybe close to caulking method... or I didn't understand what you said... :P
Humm
#4569 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2005/12/14 09:12:26
btw, what happens in q1 if you use clip texture only on one face?
Pretty Much JPL
#4570 posted by Preach [86.129.228.125] on 2005/12/14 09:22:26
It is similar to clip, but there are some distinctions. One is that you can use skip on any face, if you had a brush with some faces clip and some not it doesn't work. Another difference is that skip brushes/faces are in fact solid to projectiles, whereas clip are not. This could be helpful for broken ground, as filling the gaps with skip faces will improve monster navigation over the ground. Of course, it also means you can't fire grenades through the holes in the ground, so it's not an ideal fix.
There are some drawbacks compared to clip as well. One is that a clip face blocks visibility for the vis program, even after it is 'removed'. So if you make a window with skip, even though you can see through it, the contents on the other side won't always be rendered once you run vis on the map. Another is that the whole skip brush is compiled just like a normal brush during the bsp stage, unlike clip which is treated specially. So the edges of a skip brush can clip away other faces, which is often undesirable as you can see through the skip. And the skip brushes will split surfaces, count towards clip nodes, and stuff like that.
A good way round some of the limitations of skip is to not use it on the world, but instead on other brush entities. The previous problems with a skip "window" can be avoided if you use a func_wall for the window, and just make all the surfaces skip. Another illustration of where skip might be useful is a complex shaped platform, or moving decoration or something, that is up against a wall. You can make all the backfaces that are never seen against the wall skip, and cut down the amount of rendering required. Plus some of the tricks in the progs thread use it.
Preach
#4571 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/12/14 12:11:04
OK, thanks for these precisions... I understand better now the subtility.. :P
#4572 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.60] on 2005/12/15 07:18:44
Thanks Preach :)
Jago
#4573 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/12/15 10:06:38
A mapper could gain: lower r_speeds by removing non-visible faces, moving ladders, statues (a la rpgsmse4) a one-unit thick trigger on the floor could be inaccessible until a given event by covering it with a a very thing func_wall skip brush. There's more.
Note:
#4574 posted by metlslime [24.5.41.21] on 2005/12/15 10:14:00
movable ladders can be done with clip brushes, as long as you make sure the func_whatever has visible brushes (hidden in the floor, probably) that extend to the edge of the model's bounding box in all six directions. RPG, you might notice that i fixed the ladder in SM69 this way. P.S. when's SM69 coming out? P.P.S. maybe we should rename it to SM666 or something, if you think we can get it done before the actualy sessions get up to the 600s. Or not.
Re: Note:
#4575 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/12/15 10:20:54
You can make solid, moving invisible walls to slap metlslime with.
SM69 filename remains the same; although I'm thinking about changing the map title.
Sm Chainmaps
#4576 posted by than [210.142.230.161] on 2005/12/16 20:31:16
could someone list all the sm chainmaps? I don't know exactly how many there are. Did sm40 ever get finished?
Than
#4577 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2005/12/16 21:06:48
See SM40 Contest Results thread: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Change the DL link to http://rpg.leveldesign.org/files/m...
Too bad my map died and scampie laughed at me. :(
Also, SM82 and SM32 are linked on my site, SM28 is on TEAMShambler, and SM36 is on Underworldfan's review site.
#4578 posted by jerry [69.61.185.242] on 2005/12/18 04:34:43
some one send me some porn
B
#4579 posted by jerry [69.61.185.242] on 2005/12/18 04:34:44
some one send me some porn
Extinguishable Flames?
#4580 posted by generic [71.1.8.246] on 2005/12/18 09:21:08
Is there any info_notnull trickery to make a light_flame killable?
Just wondering :)
Yup
#4581 posted by Preach [86.143.31.160] on 2005/12/18 10:20:45
There is, but it's a painful hack invovling modelindexes. Make an entity with the following collection of fields:
model progs/player.mdl
mdl progs/player.mdl
modelindex *theindexofflame2.mdl*
think SUB_regen
nexthink 0.3
It doesn't actually matter what model goes in mdl or model, as long as it's precached already, so player.mdl works well. The important thing is getting *theindexofflame2.mdl* correct. This should be the number of flame2 in the list of models(so you will need a regular flame somewhere to precache it). Every time you add a new bmodel to the map, it will bump the index of flame2 by 1, so best to do it right at the final stage, or you'll be correcting it all the time. Also, be warned that the correct index in regular quake may be wrong in other mods - even things like weapon patches.
You may find the command modellist in darkplaces handy for finding the modelindex, it prints the entire precache list in order to the console.
Func_illusionary
#4582 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2005/12/27 04:53:11
someone mentioned a while ago that func_illusionary has special magical properties, and can't be killed like a regular func entity. I was wondering if func_illusionary is treated by the compilers as world or as an entity, and whether or not I can place them freely or have to worry about the precache model index getting full.
I am guessing it is an entity... I think they vanish when you noclip into the world anyway.
Would it be possible to treat func_illusionary ents as world in the compiler and have their polys compile into the world, cast shadows etc, but not split world polys or add to the clip hull? Would this be problematic?
Func_illusionary
#4583 posted by Preach [86.142.152.174] on 2005/12/27 07:27:57
A func_illusionary is a static entity. This means it does use a model slot up, and it is added as an entity. However, it then gets turned into a static entity, which means it takes one of the static entity slots, rather than the regular entity slots. There aren't as many static entities available, 128 I believe. But there's also less competition for them, as you can't modify a static entity once it's made static - meaning you can't kill them. The model precache however works as normal, it still takes up one slot per model from the same pool as regular entities.
As for the modification for a compiler, I'm not really sure if it's doable. Which isn't to write it off - the compiler aguirRe made that makes the clipping hulls visible instead of the regular surface means you can have drawn faces that differ from the map walls. On the other hand, I'd guess that just making them non solid wouldn't be enough to stop them splitting the bsp up, since vis relies on the portals and whatnot. So if you want something illusionary for the sake of it and need to save a model precache this might work, but if you are trying to save faces by making things illusionary so they don't split things, I suspect it wouldn't.
Fish "well Known" Issue
#4584 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/12/29 12:44:50
Trinca just asked me about the monster_fish "well known" issue: i.e fishes are not counted as dead monsters at the end of a level, even if you killed them all... I know this issue, but don't remember how to solve it... so ... is there a noble man to refresh my memory (and then give advice to trinca) about how to solve this issue ? Thanks in advance !
Double Fish
#4585 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.69] on 2005/12/29 14:01:57
It's a bug in the original 1.06 QC; fishes are counted twice at spawn time, but only once when killed. Comment out one of the total_monsters increments near the end of monsters.qc.
This and similar killcount issues are mentioned in my latest ToolTips.
AguirRe
#4586 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/12/29 23:12:21
ouch... It means QC, and progs.dat rebuild... hhmmmm, I'm not yet used with QC, and I guess Trinca is not as well... Would it be possible you send me an updated progs.dat thta solve the fish issue, or is there a link where I could download the stuff ? Thanks a lot for Trinca and myself ;)
Standard Progs
#4587 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.211] on 2005/12/30 01:37:09
I've uploaded my latest std progs here http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/std... . It's packed into a pak2.pak file that you can put in the id1 directory.
If you already have pak files with higher numbers than the original pak0/1, just rename this one to a higher number. You can of course also repack this progs into the original pak0.pak if you wish.
There are several other gameplay issues fixed and some debug help for e.g. missing teleport destinations.
AguirRe
#4588 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2005/12/30 01:40:45
Downloaded ! Thanks a lot !!
Kellboxes...
#4589 posted by generic [71.1.2.100] on 2005/12/31 07:19:19
does anyone know where I can get all of Kell's skyboxes? His DL links are down :(
Thanks.
#4590 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/12/31 07:58:54
http://kell.leveldesign.org/skies-...
...
#4591 posted by generic [71.1.2.100] on 2005/12/31 08:19:38
Thank you, Kell!
Kell !!!
#4592 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/12/31 09:08:27
Same question for your texture sets ! I downloaded some days ago knave and apocryphia texture sets, but fury and KDM links are broken.. could you restore them please ?
Happy New Year
#4593 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2005/12/31 16:09:09
you ungrateful bastards ;)
Kell
#4594 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2005/12/31 18:08:45
he he he .... I'm not a bastard.. at least that's what my parents told me ;P
Happy New Year to all of you !!
Lavaman
#4595 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/01 04:23:29
Has anyone used Rogue's Lavaman?
I thought that when triggered, he is supposed to rise from the lava but all he does is rise to floor level regardless of where he is placed in the map.
Is there a door/platform trick required here?
Lavaman
#4596 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/01 09:50:02
If I change his .movetype from STEP to FLY, he seems to do what I expected.
Does anyone know if I have 'broken' something else by making this change?
Not Without Checking The Code
#4597 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/01/01 11:47:17
but since the lavaman doesn't move anyway, it might not matter, but check if rocket explosions will move him around. if he has his onground flag set, than he won't but if that gets taken off, he could start flying all over the place. :P
Necros
#4598 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/01 13:09:06
His flag is 'FL_MONSTER' and 'droptofloor();'was called although I commented that out when I changed him to FLY. I don't know if that is significant.
He doesn't move but the walk frames are there. And he doesn't fly either: he just stands there throwing his lava-lumps.
It's OK but I would prefer him to move.
Stuff
#4599 posted by ijed [201.246.52.234] on 2006/01/01 13:44:08
Ok, a few things I´ve noticed and would like to know ->
why are the texture alignments fucked in Q1? Example, an off-axis crate which looks perfect in WC (properly aligned TX´s etc.) is correct in terms of TX rotation but is off by 32-odd units in each direction in Quake, WTF? I experimented but the problem was perpetual.
Is it possible to import 3dsMax models in .Md format for Quake? If not where can I find a decent .Md supporting editor. I ask because I won´t be making monsters . . . yet . . . but there´s alot of misalignment problems with intricate detail models in Q and I´d prefer to use misc_misc´s (Nehahra model entity) which will look perfect, without any skwiffed geometry.
Last one - I know the text screens in the original Q were coded in ie. on completing an episode, finding a rune - is there an easy way to create your own? This is a question from someone with zero C knowledge.
Thanks.
Ijed
#4600 posted by bambuz [213.169.3.84] on 2006/01/01 15:38:22
This might not be the prob, but for correct tex alignment, use qbsp -oldaxis or -alternateaxis if you use aguirre's tools. (I don't understand why this isn't default!)
Texture Alignment
#4601 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.81] on 2006/01/01 15:54:28
or rather texture rotation, if that's what you mean. If you're using TreeQBSP with WC, you could try adding the -oldaxis option.
This affects textures that are rotated 45 degrees and historically, there probably was some mixup between different WC versions and TreeQBSP, therefore the option was added. You could also switch to TxQBSP which doesn't have this problem.
If you actually mean texture alignment, then the classic Q1 map format can AFAIK not handle any rotation in all three axes. You'll need an editor that can save to another map format and a compiler to match.
Editors with enhanced texture positioning map formats are e.g. QuArK, Hammer and GtkRadiant and my compilers support QuArK ETP, Hammer (Valve 220) and Q2 format (same as Q3).
D3/Q4 Bad At Handling Complex Brushwork
#4602 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2006/01/02 01:26:00
Can someone explain to me why the Doom 3 and Quake 4 incarnations of Radiant are bad at handling complex brushwork?
I was reading over on kat's great site ( http://www.quake3bits.com/htm/tuto... ) that Quake 4 and Doom 3 don't handle trisouping well, so it's best to do it in another editor and import as an .ase or whatever.
After I read that, I thought of the issues I had with gaps in the brushwork when I tried making some manual curves in Doom 3 ( http://blitz.circa1984.com/curves.... )
So, I guess what I'm asking is, why is it that the Doom 3 engine has such a hard time (at least in the editor) handling more complex brushwork like curves and trisouped brushes?
Don't be afraid to give me a fairly technical explanation if possible if anyone does in fact know the technical reason behind this phenomenon.
#4603 posted by Trinca [194.65.31.249] on 2006/01/02 02:46:27
what can i say more then
THKS
aguirRe and JPL
happy new year to u all :)
i promiss that in my next map i will surprise everybody...
D3 Is Fine With Complex Brushwork
#4604 posted by BlackDog [202.72.148.102] on 2006/01/02 04:51:27
In most cases.
Trisouping with brushes doesn't work well for a few reasons. The most important is that smoothing will never occur between brush faces, whereas model and patch geometry can be smoothed. Due to the per-pixel lighting, seams between unsmoothed triangles will look hard and ugly, so trisouping will pretty much never be visually acceptable.
The second big problem is that for whatever reason DoomRadiant lacks the option to project textures axially on brushwork. That means angly brushes can't easily be aligned, which doesn't help the already fucked lighting on unsmoothed brush faces. Using models solves both those issues completely, and is a bit more performance friendly to boot.
Additionally because alpha blending can't happen on light interaction surfaces, blending needs to be controlled by vertex colour. There's no way to do this within DoomEdit, so if you want texture blending in d3 you have to use a model with suitable vertex colours painted in.
The circular brushwork in that shot doesn't look like it'd be problematic to me assuming everything is on the grid, although since smoothing will not occur on those brushes you will see seams. The editor preview sometimes suffers from sparklies that don't show up in game, and I suspect that's what is going on in that screen. I'd say that the d3 engine is actually more powerful when it comes to curved and complex stuff than any previous id tech, with the caveat that certain lighting conditions can make polygon-heavy scenes very expensive due to the performance-raping goodness that is stencil shadows.
To get the most out of the engine I suggest you use models or patches wherever possible for curved stuff.
Another Note
#4605 posted by pjw [67.129.250.254] on 2006/01/02 07:27:25
When doing trisouping, I've found that it's a really good idea to do it via dragging edges rather than vertexes. Vertex manipulation seems to be kind of unstable (in that it unnecessarily splits faces and sometimes just outright breaks them).
It seems counter-intuitive (or perhaps even impossible when first considered) to do trisouping with only edge-drag--at least it did to me the first time--but it's actually easier once you get used to it...
And yeah, if you want nice seamless (axially-projected) texturing on that surface, I'm pretty sure you're out of luck...
And Yeah
#4606 posted by pjw [67.129.250.254] on 2006/01/02 07:32:32
models/patches are generally a better solution...
MedDle
#4607 posted by ijed [201.246.52.70] on 2006/01/02 08:18:03
Ok, I´ve got 3dsMax (and five years knowledge of it´s use) and want to try creating some bad guys for Quake 1. Where can I find a live MedDle (or equivilant) download link?
cheers
Broken
#4608 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/02 10:37:03
I tried some monsters with Animation Master.
MAX3D sure will do, if you have the knowhow.
MedDle link seems to be broken. Only DOS version.
http://meddle.telefragged.com/
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/classes/A...
Happy New Year!
QMLE
#4609 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/02 11:13:32
Create your monsters with MAX3D en export them
*.dxf or *.3DS to Qme.
This is a much better program to manipulate Quake1 monsters than MedDle!
Meddle201a3
#4610 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/02 11:26:38
http://members.home.nl/gimli/meddl...
Help...
#4611 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/02 11:54:54
...could some kind person make the original progs.dat discussion visible for me?
'View all threads' does nothing for me in IE6 or Green Browser.
Green Browser...
#4612 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/01/02 12:12:17
is it biodegradable?
Haven't A Clue
#4613 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/02 12:31:57
I tried Green Browser 'cause aguirRe had recommended it sometime ago as an IE alternative.
I just get a 'Cannot find server or DNS Error' when I click on View All Threads or News Archive.
I am trying to review the original Progs.dat thread as there are some things in there I want to try.
Quad Soup
#4614 posted by kat [86.136.37.155] on 2006/01/02 12:50:42
If you find edge dragging difficult on trisouped brushes (as pjw mentioned above) try using 'quad'souping instead. Rather than use triangular block use square blocks which make edge draggin much easier and you can still get some pretty interesting 'terrain' shapes as well.
sock has a couple of tutorials on his site about quad souping (I thought I had them linked but haven't added them to the new version of meh site yet)
View All Threads
#4615 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.231] on 2006/01/02 13:37:51
works fine here in my GreenBrowser, you might be having local DNS issues. Func_ has been a bit reluctant lately, though. Very high latency and sometimes inaccessible.
Metl: The Chinese free biodegradable GreenBrowser has its name because it unlike most other Windows apps doesn't clutter your system at all. Everything is kept in one dir and works really well. Try it: http://www.morequick.com/indexen.h...
AguirRe
#4616 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/02 15:24:27
I've never been able to View All Threads - I mean never as in never, ever, not nohow in any case ever, never.
I think I reported this once before. I think that's where your suggestion of GreenBrowser came from.
Can someone drag it to the Last 10 Posts area for me. Pretty please with sugar?
Max 7
#4617 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/02 16:23:03
Although I probably won't bother, is it possible to make Quake monsters in Max 7? Can you still export them to work in Meddle.
Hmm, maybe it has some legacy file exporters remaining?
Progs Thread Bumped
#4618 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.153] on 2006/01/02 17:08:17
.
Than
#4619 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/01/02 17:57:44
yes.
to be more verbose, any app that can export to dxf format could be used in theory to make meshes. just make sure you hide any non-mesh geometry, like bones, helpers, etc when exporting.
i'd recommend QME3.0 though, but that's just because that's what i use. :P
AguirRe
#4620 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/02 22:45:34
Thanks.
So How Do You Animate Them?
#4621 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/02 22:53:14
Can you animate them in character studio (or whatever), or must you animate them simply by moving the vertices around?
#4622 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/01/02 23:55:21
i personally don't use Character Studio, as i like to rig my meshes on my own and set up my helpers and IK the way i like (esp since often doing monsters for quake, the skeleton structure can be rather atypical)
afterwards, i just export each frame as a seperate dxf file (after hiding everything but the mesh) and then import each in sequence into QME.
remember to set the framerate to 10fps, so that when you preview your animations in max, it will be at the correct speed. (max defaults to 30)
Thanks Blackdog
#4623 posted by Blitz [24.218.85.216] on 2006/01/03 02:37:28
Pretty much cleared it up :D
Hrm
#4624 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/01/03 14:19:47
In my brief stint messing around with quake model animation, I exported a base from from qme in lwo format, imported into MilkShape, had to do some sort of transformation to get it to appear correctly (flip one axis I beleive), then rig a skeleton and animate. It's a pain in the ass that way, but once you have a good skeleton made, animation is easy (and fun). The quake enforcer looks odd doing the robot though.
Two Pence
#4625 posted by Preach [86.129.214.1] on 2006/01/03 15:39:55
If you wanna make quake models using only free tools, the best combo I've found is making the model in gmax - mesh, skin and animations. Then export it to md3, load it in quark and export it to mdl. Gmax has a fairly decent setup for skeletal animation, it's not character studio but it's easier than any native Q1 tool.
Sad News
#4626 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.26] on 2006/01/03 16:25:03
The reliable and also last known mirror of planetquake is now gone. ftp.sunet.se's idgames2 archive has been permanently deleted.
There are still some other idgames2 mirrors, but with far less content.
Goddammit
#4627 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.95] on 2006/01/04 01:00:12
That's not true. How come sunet had more content than other idgames2 mirrors? I mean mirror is mirror after all.
I will try to contact them and get a mirror of sunet idgames2 at Quaddicted. At least as much as I can squeeze on my space :)
WAH!
#4628 posted by . [69.216.185.131] on 2006/01/04 13:59:26
Sunset.se is the best mirror in my experience - where other's faltered, SUNET.SE STOOD ERECT!
ATTN Compiler Dudes
#4629 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/01/06 10:51:54
Have the old -threads switches on the compiler utils been ripped out?
Now that I'm on a dual CPU system, it would be nice to be able to take advantage of it...
(Right now the compile won't use more than 50% CPU.)
They've Never
#4630 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.19] on 2006/01/06 15:16:04
worked in Win32, only alpha (unix). I just removed the options.
Oh Blah
#4631 posted by czg [81.225.3.56] on 2006/01/06 15:30:06
Still, I figured I could set it to run on realtime and still have windows be responsive since it only runs on one CPU anyway.
Not sure if it makes it go any faster though...
I Wouldn't
#4632 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.106] on 2006/01/06 16:02:42
recommend that. You won't gain anything if you don't have other CPU-intensive processes running. And in that case, it's better to terminate them or set them to lower priority.
You could however run vis/light for two different maps simultaneously if you can specify thread affinity (i.e. manually select CPU for each thread) at startup.
Well Yeah That's An Idea
#4633 posted by czg [81.225.3.56] on 2006/01/06 16:48:15
Too bad I'm not that multitasking. :/
Perhaps I could try to run vis and light for the same map at the same time...........
Perhaps if I made separate copies of the bsp for each process and then made some small prog to merge the visdata/lightdata lumps into one bsp...
Models . .
#4634 posted by ijed [201.246.53.193] on 2006/01/07 07:35:13
cheers, working on a monster now 3dsmax5 (until I "aqcuire" v8) and using qME - everything seems pretty straightforward, I´ve even managed to use unwrap texture properly and create a photoshop 256 .bmp for import (even though the skin painter in qME seems adequete).
>>watch this space for critical newb help errors<< ;)
Gmaxed Out...
#4635 posted by generic [71.1.11.125] on 2006/01/07 09:06:33
According to the website:
As of October 6, 2005, Autodesk will no longer offer Gmax® software as a stand-alone product. If you are interested in other 3D animation, modeling, and rendering applications from Autodesk please check out Autodesk® 3ds Max® software.
GMax
#4636 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/01/07 09:24:26
I still have gmaxinst_1-1.exe 20.5 mb.
Spiders
#4637 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/07 11:17:44
Does anyone know of a good spider model for Q1. I have seen Willy the Spider but it's a bit too cartooney for my taste.
Perhaps like the D3 spiders?
Marcher Fortress / SHIT!
#4638 posted by ijed [201.246.53.230] on 2006/01/07 11:48:16
Mike - for SP the spiders in The Marcher Fortress by Ben are very nicely done, animated etc. download the map at www.quaddicted.com, but be sure to ask his permission first.
As to the use of unwrap texture - I goofed. It doesn´t work. I spent a couple of hours getting the UVW´s just right and then in qME it applied a basic x-axis planar map - ? is this a limitation of quake or qME? I ask because the UVW´s are a flat picture - is it that the engine can only render one channel per element / singular object? The UVW´s I set up were 8 seperate texture maps inside a single map (if that makes sense) but I know the base models in Quake have different maps within the same one for single objects (EG. the ranger´s, axe, muzzle flare and body are all seperately skinned).
If this is the only way to do it I may spilt the arms, legs etc into seperate entities and cap them so the join can´t be seen - a few extra polys for a much cleaner & detailed skin.
Mike...
#4639 posted by generic [71.1.11.125] on 2006/01/07 11:49:28
Kinn used the Hexen 2 spiders in Marcher and they seemed to work just fine :)
Spider
#4640 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/07 11:54:04
cheque "the plumber" level on quaddicted.
it has a progs file with a spider and a snakeman mdl. of course you should give a word to the author.
Preserving UVW Maps
#4641 posted by Preach [86.129.214.1] on 2006/01/07 12:17:53
You can get a model with proper UV maps, if you use quark to convert it from Q2/Q3 model format to mdl. Any tools to export models to md2 or md3 should preserve the UV maps correctly, whereas no other Q1 tool does to the best of my knowledge. Quark essentially does this by splitting up the model on all the UV seams, so that in theory you could deform the model into the "pose" of the UV map, and then planar map that frame.
Because the quake model format rounds all the vertices onto a grid of 256x256x256, the seams aren't visible as all the verts on the joins snap to the same point. Of course, if you did further animation in qme, it would be possible to break the model apart at the seams, so take care when doing this or do all the animation prior to the conversion.
One thing you will have to do is consolodate all of your texture maps into one image file before you start this process, Q1 has no support for multiple maps on a single model. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by 8 seperate maps inside a single map, but as long as all 8 maps are on the same image(in the same way that ranger has the axe and gun on the same image as the body) then conversion is possible.
People, I Have A Confession To Make
#4642 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/01/07 12:38:25
I failed my calculus 1 & 2 classes.
I've got the following line of text
"BRUSH_PLANE_0" "3, 0, 0, 1, -160, CITY3_4, 0, 0,0, 0, 1,1" *)
which defines a brush face by giving the normal of the face (0,0,1) and the distance (-160) to it.
I need to convert it to a quake style face which should be looking like this
( -256 -128 160 ) ( -224 -128 160 ) ( -224 -384 160 ) CITY3_4 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
where it is defined by three points on the plane.
Now, I could probably use Google, I could sure as hell phone my mom and ask her to send me my old calculus textbook, I could also ask some of the professional math people at this establishment, but dangit, I'll ask you guys first.
Could you please help me with some mathematics for converting (0,0,1) -160 into (-256,-128,160) (-224,-128,160) (-224,-384,160)?
I'm not a complete moron when it comes to vector maths, I know a little bit about a lot of bits, but I have no idea how to put them together.
I would love if someone could just at least point me in the right direction of what I should be looking for.
Also I notice in the quake map format that the three points that are selected seem to be vertices on the brush. I guess this is not important, but perhaps it is easier to figure out the points that way? (I'm shooting in the dark, doom comic style, here people!)
*) I don't know what the first '3' or what the first '0' after the texture name means. They are 3 and 0 throughout the entire file. Maybe something like surface flags or whatever. I've ignored them anyway.
Spides
#4643 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/07 14:05:34
Thanks for the info ijed, madfox and generic.
Preach
#4644 posted by ijed [201.246.52.235] on 2006/01/07 14:15:31
ok cheers, I´ll give it a try. I´m using Max and photoshop and qME only as a converter so there shouldn´t be a problem. oye, I meant a single texture map with multiple pictures inside it mapped onto the different models / objects . . . I´ve studied this stuff and I still don´t know the terminology :/
Czg
#4645 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.57] on 2006/01/07 14:57:51
Take a look at http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
In your case, you have a plane normal in positive z-direction positioned at z=-160. You just need three points on that plane that don't line up and are arranged clockwise (I think) so the normal points in positive z-direction, something like:
(1, 0, -160) (0, 1, -160) (-1, 0, -160)
Btw, the three points don't need to be vertices in the brush and AFAIK seldom are.
More Spiders
#4646 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/07 16:07:10
Has any got a working link to Requiem's Redback Spider?
CZG
#4647 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/07 19:35:54
I thought that the way Quake worked is that you needed all the planes that define a convex volume (i.e. a brush) to be able to resolve the Quake .map face definitions? You need to find the intersections of the planes to get the vertices - which is why you can't define a concave volume with a brush.
I don't really know much about this, but I wrote a .map compiler for the game I wrote at uni, which did pretty much exactly what you want (I think). It converted .map planes into polys/tris strips easily renderable by OpenGL.
Can't explain the maths, because I have completely forgotten it, but I still have the source if you are interested.
Actually, I just looked at the source, and don't understand it at all. Don't know how I wrote it :(
What are you trying to do anyway?
Aha, Maybe This!
#4648 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/07 19:51:26
Here is the function I found. Sorry if it doesn't render correctly:
bool LdfCompiler::getPlaneIntersection(... a, CPlane& b, CPlane& c, CVector& v)
{
//if denom is 0, then the planes are parallel (hence no intersection can be found between them)
float denom = CVector::dotProduct(a.n, CVector::crossProduct(b.n, c.n));
if(denom == 0) return 0;
//calculate intersection point
v = (a.d * (CVector::crossProduct(b.n, c.n))
+b.d * (CVector::crossProduct(c.n, a.n))
+c.d * (CVector::crossProduct(a.n, b.n)))
/ denom;
return 1;
}
The function takes 3 planes and a reference to a vector. The planes are resolved to calculate a point and the point is stored in the vector. The other functions called are functions of the vector class I implemented and should be pretty obvious.
LDF is the map format I used for my game. It stands for Level Definition Format. Amazing!
I might have missed what you are looking for completely, but I hope this helps.
I got the maths from a textbook called real-time rendering I think. There is also a really good Half-life format map compiler writing guide that I used for sorting out some problems I had, but I don't know if I still have it.... it is possible. Email me if this sounds helpful.
Er
#4649 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/08 01:30:32
don't bother emailing, since I haven't put it on my website or here or anything. Just post in here again.
Anyway, you need three planes to get one vertex. You need all the planes of a brush to be able to get all the vertices. I think there can be certain cases where a vertex can be defined twice by two or more different sets of planes (not sure of this though) so if you want to convert a brush into tris for some reason, you might need to check all the vertices are different.
Also, since I am a shit coder and my maths is crappy, the function I posted is probably less than optimal.
"Maths"
#4650 posted by . [70.224.207.60] on 2006/01/08 04:00:27
WTF? Math.
You Say Tomato, I Say Tomato
#4651 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/08 05:04:02
Doesn't really work in text, does it?*
Anyway, "maths" is what we say in England, "math" is what Americans say. I wonder if they also say "mathematic" instead of "mathematics".
Unless I put it like this "You say tomayto, I say tomarto". Works best in phonetic script, but this doesn't support rich text, and most people don't have the phonetic script fonts installed anyway.
The American Says:
#4652 posted by . [70.224.207.60] on 2006/01/08 05:19:12
Mathematics
Than
#4653 posted by metlslime [71.139.60.180] on 2006/01/08 15:35:57
Anyway, "maths" is what we say in England, "math" is what Americans say. I wonder if they also say "mathematic" instead of "mathematics".
We say "math" which is short for "mathematics." I can only assume you say "maths" which is short for "mathsematics."
More Like
#4654 posted by pjw [66.188.135.147] on 2006/01/08 16:12:59
mathsemantics
lol
*shoots self*
Hipnotic Spawn Problem
#4655 posted by Scragbait [67.68.0.2] on 2006/01/08 19:53:32
I'm working on my Quake Travail maps and am using Hipnotic spawn code (func_spawn) to bring in some of my enemies. This is needed to keep bmodel counts down by replacing teleport brushes with direct spawns.
I have a problem in that if I want to spawn a floating scrag, it just drops until it hits the ground. This results in them not being where I want them and if they drop into lava or water, they are effectively invisible.
Is there anything I can do to stop the drop? Any workarounds can't use bmodels otherwise I'd just go back to the old spawning method if I have bmodel counts to spare.
Scragbait
#4656 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/09 12:56:26
I've just had a quick look at hip2m1.bsp (Ancient Realms), and the scrags in that particular map are spawned in the traditional manner.
I've had a quick look at the func_spawn code and it's noticable that scrags are not included in the random spawn function. Also, there is a reference to MOVETYPE_NONE; in the section that deals with the non-random code.
I don't know enough about the code to go any further but perhaps the above is a pointer to someone else to help you (if this was of any help anyway?)
Model Precache
#4657 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/01/10 05:16:03
Saddly i have hit the limit yesterday :(
I think the reason is I have too many triggers and func_walls in the level (used some in light supports). I have two questions:
Can I combine func_wals from nearby places in the map into one bigger func_wall?
Do trigger_counter and trigger_relay eat up a precache slot everytime I use them in the level?
Answers
#4658 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/10 06:54:35
Can I combine func_wals from nearby places in the map into one bigger func_wall?
YES! As long as they aren't too far apart. Sometimes the engine can start to render them badly if the bounding box becomes too big. They might become invisible from certain angles etc. Typically if they are in the same area and not separated by any walls, then you can group them.
Do trigger_counter and trigger_relay eat up a precache slot everytime I use them in the level?
trigger_relay does not use a model precache, since it is just a point entity. However, I think the counter does. All the other solid triggers take up a precache too.
If you don't want a trigger (for example, a trigger_secret) to take up a precache slot, you should set flag 1 (in Worldcraft it's labelled "entity only"). This way, no model is precached and no touch field will be spawned.
Thanks Than
#4659 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/01/10 07:33:39
This really helps a lot :)
I didn't know about the "entity only" solution
Ankh
#4660 posted by negke [82.83.49.7] on 2006/01/10 07:40:01
you can make the trigger_counters point entities, too. ;)
Great!
#4661 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/01/10 07:46:17
I was worried already that I have to cut something out. Yesterday I have panically deleted some triggers to get below the limit :)
Than, I Need Some Clarification
#4662 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/01/11 01:33:28
What is going on here?
v = (a.d * (CVector::crossProduct(b.n, c.n))
+b.d * (CVector::crossProduct(c.n, a.n))
+c.d * (CVector::crossProduct(a.n, b.n)))
/ denom;
Are you dividing a vector? How the hell does that even work? Is / denom; the same as * (1 / denom);?
This is why I don't like operator overloading. :(
CZG
#4663 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/11 04:50:31
I've forgotten completely. I don't even remember what denom was.
Here's the CVector declaration for the / operator.
inline CVector operator / (float s) const { s = 1/s; return CVector(x*s, y*s, z*s); }
So er, yeah, dividing a vector I suppose.
I think I assigned it that operator because some tutorial in a book or on the net had done that, and I really liked operator overloading.
I don't think I ever understood the maths for this part of the compiler, I just accepted it and got on with the other shit :)
Why are you interested in this stuff, btw? Are you making a game of some sort, writing a tool to export from .map to .3ds/whatever or something more sinister involving dancing badgers?
Anyway, like I said before, you can have the source if you like. The game and all the really badly written documentation can be found here: http://than.spawnpoint.org/files/c... (10mb, sorry, it includes the game and some other shit.)
SHIT! I just looked in the zip and found probably the exact file that you need. I looked it up on google just now and found a link for you http://folk.uio.no/stefanha/MAPFil...
Hehe
#4664 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/11 04:52:34
the google results also included the file linked in a reply to a question I asked on Flipcode, back when it was running.
Pharaoh Type Monster
#4665 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/12 12:21:25
Time dulls the mind, again.
Which Quake level had the pharaoh-looking monster that rose out of the ground?
Mike...
#4666 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/01/12 12:47:00
Do you mean the dudes with the staves in Dissolution of Eternity?
Generic
#4667 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/12 14:16:25
You got it, thanks.
Mike
#4668 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2006/01/12 15:45:20
those 'dudes with the staves' are bad models with utterly abominable animations. The skins are pretty good, but that doesn't save them. Please don't put them in a map.
Quake Monster Creation
#4669 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/01/12 17:13:50
So, are there any good tutorials about this on the net?
Good & Goods
#4670 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/12 21:32:02
http://zippy
egoboo.sourceforge.net/tutorial_1....
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/classes/A...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~renep/qmehel...
Kell
#4671 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/12 23:03:53
Yes, now I have seen it again, I agree that it's not too clever.
I was only thinking about the code for making a monster rise out of the ground. I didn't realise that it was done via animation - I though it would be the opposite of a sinking dead monster.
...and I Didn't Want To Reinvent The Wheel
#4672 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/12 23:10:55
So anyway, hub, spokes, rim...
#4673 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2006/01/13 02:04:57
...axle?
Kell
#4674 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/13 11:24:28
Jeez, I doubt that I'll manage two wheels!
Yes But
#4675 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2006/01/13 11:57:17
even one needs an axle, otherwise you don't have a wheel, you just have a disk.
Oh, Oh...
#4676 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/13 13:04:10
Wheels don't need axles to be wheels, they need axles to work as wheels.
That's rather like the notice you can see in the Chinese by the traffic lights at the bottom of the hill: 'This door must be kept closed when not in use'
Hardly mapping but an interesting paradox if you think a little laterally.
Mike Woodham Rolling On Dubs
#4677 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/01/13 20:24:04
can a mapper get tabledance
+a
#4678 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/01/13 20:24:33
a tabledance
No Valid Wadfiles In Worldmodel
#4679 posted by nylon [81.173.224.163] on 2006/01/16 04:55:47
"no valid wadfiles in worldmodel"
i do get that warning when trying to bsp a map with txqbsp..
the map was imported from a wc map..
i tried different wad files, but no change..
the bsp is therefore not usable..
what is this worldmodel? (sry new to mapping)
Nylon
#4680 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/01/16 05:26:24
Check if your map file is pointing on the correct .wad path you want to apply on.. I guess it is the problem... Map files give the path to a gfx directory where wad file(s) is(are) explicitely named..
If you point wrongly, you may have this kind of warning...
Yeah
#4681 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.188] on 2006/01/16 11:39:16
you can look at the .map file with a text editor to see to what .wad and path it is pointing to, it's right there in the beginning.
Yeah Worked.. But..
#4682 posted by nylon [213.196.221.77] on 2006/01/16 16:50:59
i looked into the map file with an editor and set the complete path to wad.. the bsp file was usable.. thx!
but, the reason i changed from wc to radiant was that i had probs on my map like rotating packs, no blood on lg hit, no boomstick smoke at walls except at the ceiling.. (jago told me that it must be an engine problem, should there be onyl the pure original quake.exe in the quake folder?)
well in order to check that, i rebuilt the map purely in radiant, so no importing issues..
but what happens now on bsping the map is weird.. 4 warnings..! :( (no wad files in specified worldmodel, no valid wadfiles in worldmodel, No entities in empty space -- no filling performed)
i checked the map file and there isnt even a line that says wad or messag or light..
just "classname" "worldspawn" and brush coordinates..
do i have to set it somewhere? the wad files are in my ID folder, which is correctly recognized by radiant.. and where can i set the map message?
i hope u guys can help me :/
#4683 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2006/01/16 17:03:32
depends which version of GtkR you're using: 1.5 is...different, and I'm not familiar with it.
But the wad information should be in the worldspawn entity. WC automatically added it, based on whatever wads you loaded into WC via the options panel.
In Radiant, select any normal ( non entity ) brush, bring up the entity properties and add this key/value manually:
wad
c:\quake\id1\blah.wad
This should be explained in the notes at the top of the entity properties window in Radiant though.
Nylon
#4684 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/16 22:44:16
I suggest you read aguirRe's Quake Tool tips document: it shoud help you to solve your issues
http://user.tninet.se/%7Exir870k/t...
Hope it helps...
All Right!
#4685 posted by nylon [62.96.55.22] on 2006/01/17 01:31:41
yeah! those fully adressed my problems!
a bit confusing after getting things like that done by wc automatically..
jpl, i had that url.. i should have RTFM ;) THX!
what remains are those engine(?) problems i mentioned before (yes, even with enhanced quake version)
maybe u guys could take a look if i built anything dumb?
http://www.egozelle.com/stuff/map_...
since it might be hard to see what i prolly done wrong, i could uploadthe mapfile later on.. if someone wants to take a look..
Testing Coop
#4686 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/01/18 05:56:26
How can I test a map for coop setup without playing it with other players? How can I test if all spawnpoints work? Also, what is the minimum distance between the spawnpoints? The starting area is very small and I'm affraid that players could frag each other :).
Maybe those are silly questions :P
#4687 posted by Kell [82.41.10.46] on 2006/01/18 06:13:27
How can I test if all spawnpoints work?
coop 1
map blah
kill
what is the minimum distance between the spawnpoints?
64 units between centers works for me
the player bbox is 32 wide, so at least 32 units between centers, though there are other issues with spawning on servers that I'm not so familiar with
Trigger_push Question
#4688 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/19 13:46:47
I have a weird issue with trigger_push. I would like to make a wind tunnel with a right angle. First trigger_push is working fine, but second is stucking me "in the air", i.e I'm "glued" in the map (or I progress very slowly...o_O...): what the fuck ? I checked trigger_push angle and speed, and all field are correctly set... Is there any positioning clue used to build right angle wind tunnel that works perfectly ? Any idea ?
Jpl
#4689 posted by negke [82.82.174.87] on 2006/01/19 14:02:08
i'm not exactly sure what you mean, but could it be that you have the two triggers directly adjoining each other? both have to extend just through half of the wind tunnel, so the player touches the second push only when he is in the center of the corner. if you know what i mean...
Wind Tunnels
#4690 posted by Mandel [81.216.196.158] on 2006/01/19 14:26:00
Getting wind tunnels to work perfectly is apparently difficult - even if you are ID. The very first tunnel in e3m5 is an example of one where you can get stuck, with (almost) no possibility of ever getting unstuck.
Can't you let the vertical push trigger extend just through half of the tunnel height, and then rely on the remaining speed to let the player fly up to the horizontal push trigger?
I guess that's the same as neg!ke is saying :)
Jpl
#4691 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/01/19 15:33:47
make sure the player's bounding box can never touch more than one trigger_push at the same time.
Also, it might help you to download the .map file for Antediluvian. (check the news thread for a link.)
Trigger Shape
#4692 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/01/19 16:53:24
Another thing you'll want to remember is that triggers are always rectangluar in shape. The rectangle is the smallest one that will enclose the entire brush, with sides aligned to the world axes. So clipping the brushes into a nice shoulder joint won't be enough to make sure they don't touch, you'll end up getting another overlap.
Trigger_push...
#4693 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/01/20 00:05:29
neg!ke / Mandel: I made this mistake in my very first tests, but I corrected this by a space of 128 between the 2 right angled tunnels, adjusting speed to force the player to go forward whatever he does.... but it didn't work... :(
BTW, I'm trying to build an horizontal wind tunnel not a vertical one... it's a little bit different I guess...
metlslime: Thanks for the Antediluvian sources, I've just downloaded the stuff.. I will open it in editor this evening... For sure it will help me to understand how it works... ;) as your map was full of wind tunnel that work fine, I guess I will find a good soluce there.. Thanks !
Preach: Yes I already noticed that with trigger_multiple I'm using in my current map... But when you said rectangular I hope you didn't mean "cubic"... because my trigger_push are already rectangular in the wind tunnels... and reading your post, I'm afaid that they are "cubic"... I have two parallel wind tunnels in the map (which are very long, and use trigger_push that push in opposite direction, just to be able to go to, and go back quickly to a secret that opens on the end area... anyway..), it would explain why I get stucked ingame.... hhhmmm I will try with several smaller trigger_push.. maybe it will solve the issue...
OK, Thanks for the support: You all rock.. It's my first test with trigger push, so I'm discovering the feature ;P ... I will let you know if I have further issues with trigger_push.. As usual: no new post will mean issue solved ;) ... Thanks a lot again...
Kell
#4694 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/01/20 01:09:57
Thanks for your answers about coop
Cuboid, Not Cubes
#4695 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/01/20 02:47:17
Yeah, rectanglar is the wrong word really, I realised once I posed that. Triggers have to be cuboids, not cubes, which means that you can have sides of different length, as long as all the faces are perpendicular to one another. Basically as long as you make triggers from just one regular brush, and don't rotate that brush(other than 90 degree turns), then what you see in the editor is what you'll get in game.
Trigger_push... Not Fully Solved
#4696 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/21 14:15:24
I followed all your advices guys, I even took as example what metlslime did in his Antediluvian map (thanks for the sources, it was very interesting), and I have now at least one of my two wind tunnels that works fine, but the other continues to "glue" the player... i.e: "touching" the second trigger_push make the player progress very very slowly.... and I still don't know why... Did anybody already experiment this strange behaviour? Any idea to solve it?
Maybe
#4697 posted by negke [82.82.184.10] on 2006/01/21 16:13:25
it's because the player is pushed straight into and along one of the (wide-angled) corners - if the wind tunnel is a pipe, that is. in this case simply clip off the corners and it should work better.
Expirience...
#4698 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/21 17:36:56
I keep a 16" distance between two seperate trigger_push.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Image...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Image...
Neg!ke / Madfox
#4699 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/22 00:20:25
Well, I already have a 96" distance between each trigger push. I think the issue comes from something else but I can't determine what's really going wrong... The more frustrating thing is that I have exactly build the same pipe architecture in paralell and this one works perfectly... Well... Player will have to walk a little bit as wind tunnel are horizontal ;)
Thanks a lot for your advices :)
Long Width...
#4700 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/22 12:50:03
96" is 1.5 x time player size, I think that's a bit too far. At least 32 would do.
Can't you just copy/paste the pipe, and renew the func_push?
MadFox
#4701 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/01/22 23:57:44
Unfortunatly it's not enough... I made several tests, made some copy paste, remove, replace the trigger_push by a new one, change the pipe architecture, etc.. etc.. but it didn't work at all.. Only on on two is workig fine as of today.. I was unable to solve the issue...
And I suspect something else, as I found a massive HOM in the map at the very begining... I don't know if HOM and trigger_push bug have any relations, but I'm afraid there is.. I will try to solve the HOM first, and then will see if it helps for trigger_push... Thanks for your advices: as I already said, at least I have one wind tunnel that works fine...
JPL...
#4702 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/01/23 20:58:54
... try:
a) Raising the push speed of the the trigger_push to double what you have it set at now, or probably more successfully...
b) I'm assuming the player jumps up into the first (vertical) wind tunnel which throws them into the horizontal trigger_push. On the return, why not have them drop into the horizontal wind tunnel (this will work if the trigger_push is shaped close enough to the floor of the tunnel) and return at the same level which they left.
This second one got me around the sticky tunnel problem on an unreleased map. Like you I couldn't get the player to just walk into a horizontal trigger_push and have it work properly.
JPL - Maybe . . .
#4703 posted by ijed [201.246.113.65] on 2006/01/24 21:27:48
I´ve no experience with using trigger puch in Q1 but know a bit about the Q2 version - which act alot differently, because of the physics code.
but:
why not use a clip brush - angled so that the player is bounced / slides in the direction of the horizontal, which then throws them along the tunnel to where you want.
I don´t know if this will work - the old proverb "experiment" probably rings true. You´ll probably have to mess with the push speed and the angle of the invisible brush for a while.
mind you - you could combine clip brushes with multiple low speed trigger_push´s to give the illusion of the player not walking along the horizontal wind tunnel; just a thought.
JPL - Maybe . . .
#4704 posted by ijed [201.246.113.65] on 2006/01/24 21:29:23
I´ve no experience with using trigger push in Q1 but know a bit about the Q2/3 version - which act alot differently, because of the physics code(s).
but:
why not use a clip brush - angled so that the player is bounced / slides in the direction of the horizontal, which then throws them along the tunnel to where you want.
I don´t know if this will work - the old proverb "experiment" probably rings true. You´ll probably have to mess with the push speed and the angle of the invisible brush for a while.
mind you - you could combine clip brushes with multiple low speed trigger_push´s to give the illusion of the player not walking along the horizontal wind tunnel; just a thought.
Distrans / Ijed
#4705 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/01/24 22:37:16
Well, I tried both what you suggested, but I still continue to get "glued" ingame in this part, even if I removed the second wind tunnel (the one that works perfectly...) I guess there's somethig else there... I have to investigate what is the issue...
BTW, could it be the massive HOM I mentionned previously (still not fixed) that impact trigger_push functionality? t's really weird.... Anyway, I have in mind a turnaround, but the player will have to walk a little bit more in this cramped pipes part.. sorry.. ;)
Thanks for your help guys !
Jpl
#4706 posted by null!ke [82.83.61.183] on 2006/01/25 00:01:55
hom and push issues shouldn't be related. the hom might be caused by misaligned brushes - check if all brushes in the concerning area are properly snapped to the grid.
as for the push, you could upload that part of the map, so we can take a look at it. otherwise i have no idea, strange thing...
Just To Let You Know...
#4707 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/01/26 07:43:52
I solved the HOM issue yesterday evening, but it didn't solve the trigger_push issue, as it was expected. So I decided to change the way to progress in the pipes: no trigger_push anymore, just some "sas" doors to open in order to progress... with some surprise behind each one... >D ... I'm now working on monster placement, and I hope to be able to start beta testing soon...
Thanks a lot for all advices ;)
Quake Sounds
#4708 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.163] on 2006/01/28 08:21:56
Is there a simple utility to convert wav files to avoid the "sound is not looped" or "is a stereo sample"?
Yeah -
#4709 posted by ijed [201.246.112.137] on 2006/01/28 13:50:46
I´d like to know this too. I´ve experimented with basic old windows sound recorder, which generally works.
I don´t know much (next to nothing) about sound editing but if you go into properties and the option that´s probably called "convert now" (I´m using spanish XP and don´t know the translations that well) you can change the Kilohertz to something that quake recognises - but like I say there seem to be some sounds that it will never recognise, and when it tries to use them quake crashes or doesn´t play em - just the standard dud sound message.
I can´t remember exactly what I was converting em to, maybe 16bit stereo? (which was wierd cos it was a higher quality than the recording had been before).
Does anyone know the specific system used?
Quake Sound
#4710 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/28 14:11:07
See part 4 of the link below... It sounds the sound is 8-bit stereo... Maybe there exist audio tools that can convert sound to 8-bit .wav file
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
I hope it helped..
Also...
#4711 posted by JPL [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/28 14:18:49
Maybe one of these audio softwares could help...
http://www.e-soft.co.uk/
Enjoy !
AguirRe
#4712 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/28 14:38:52
This one also works...
http://koyotstar.free.fr/indexEn.h...
It's Freeware
#4713 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/28 14:39:58
Thanks For The
#4714 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.231] on 2006/01/28 15:01:45
suggestions and links, I'll check them out. Ugh, big downloads ... ;)
Hm . . .
#4715 posted by ijed [201.246.112.137] on 2006/01/28 18:45:18
on my way out so can´t check yet, but; windows sound recorder everyone has already - why I asked for the specific sound bit / type that quake requires, cos there´s more options for conversion in there that I haven´t used yet.
anyhoo, probly I´ll check those programs also.
Quake:
#4716 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/01/28 20:41:08
11khz, 16bit mono, but you can also use 8bit.
and soundrecorder more than suffices for doing conversions.
however, if you're converting down from 44khz or 22khz, it might not always sound good with soundrecorded, and a better sound software might be needed to play around with the sound to make it better in 11khz.
Soundrecorder
#4717 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.172] on 2006/01/29 05:03:09
That's more like it, thanks!
Forgot What It Was...
#4718 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/01/29 12:07:38
i got the alloc_hunc error again.
Thought it had something to do with too much textures in the wad file, but i forgot.
So I lowered the texture rate, but still got the same error.
Forgot the map ,and later played it with ordinairy quake batch -winmem 32 as proof and it played fine.
1616 polyhedrons 279 entities.
Packet Overflow :(
#4719 posted by Ankh [83.17.205.242] on 2006/01/29 14:33:12
I have an serious problem with "packet overflow" warnings. I have run fullvis on my map and unfortunatelly there are some places where I get this warnings on higher skills. I have some questions:
1. Is this warning computer speed dependant?
2. Is it possible that it appears only in gl engine? (it appears in fitzquake but not in software joequake).
3. Since I can't reduce the visibillity in this part of the level I have to reduce the number of entities. What are the best things to remove? (torches, flames, monsters, anything else). I guess removing the GL would be most effective, but I won't do this :)
4. There is an big amount of lights (torches and flames) in that open area, can their sound cause problems with packet overflow? Is there a possibility to remove the sound from a light_flame?
I would test it all out by myself, but full vis takes too much time (25h) on my old comp. :(
I was using aguirRe's winquake during development, but it doesn't give any errors about packet overflow (even if it would I would ignore this since the level wasn't fully vised). I think now that it is better to always test the map with standard engines and use the enhanced versions only in case of crashes or problem hunting.
Packet Overflow
#4720 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.194] on 2006/01/29 16:11:52
1. It's not generally computer speed dependant, but I guess some variations could occur.
2. No, it's only engine protocol packet size dependant, std size is 8000 bytes. Fitz and Joe should have the same problems as both use the std size AFAIK. I don't know why you're seeing a difference.
3. Usually the problem is too many [active] entities in view. If you can't reduce visibility, you'll have to reduce entities. I don't know if there's a difference in various entities as such, but some entities spawn other entities (edicts, e.g. HK missiles), which makes removing them more effective.
4. I don't know if torches add up to the packet limit as they're static entities.
In any case, you can modify the entity section and just do qbsp -onlyents without redoing vis each time you test.
Btw, are you using std progs or a custom one? Using a custom progs could be the cause of packet overflow (e.g. ejecting many shell cases). OTOH, using a custom progs can also help you to reduce edicts by removing corpses, delaying spawns etc.
Let me know if you need help investigating this issue.
Thanks For Help AguirRe
#4721 posted by Ankh [83.17.205.242] on 2006/01/31 13:13:38
At the moment I don't have the time to check out your suggestions. But thanks a lot.
Some additional info:
I don't use any special progs.dat. In software joequake there is no overflow, in joequake-gl the problem starts to appear and in fitzquake the problems are getting bigger.
If I kill all the monsters with genocide (it is an impulse command) then there is no packet overflow in any place. There are many gibs in this map because GL is the main weapon. Maybe using a progs.dat with corpse removal would solve the problem, but I don't like this idea. Is packet overflow in two places in a level a realy bad thing?
I remember that I was getting some warnings when compiling with -onlyents after some entities were removed/added, but I will check it out.
Ankh
#4722 posted by JPL "unlogged" [82.234.166.130] on 2006/01/31 13:48:06
IMHO, having "massive" packet overflow warnings in some places in a map dicrease its quality. AguirRe helped me for CDA: there was a lot of packet overflow warnings at the very first release, and using a spawn64-like progs.dat helped to limit the number of entities the engine have to manage, and then help to avoid packet overflow... Believe me, it works fine, and furthermore you could add more monsters in the map... ;)
Ankh
#4723 posted by negke [82.83.43.231] on 2006/01/31 13:48:27
you could of course have each monster in the concerning area fire trigger_relays that in turn killtarget the monsters. this way, at least their heads would be removed which might possibly reduce the packet overview a little (however, it would also remove their corpses if they are not gibbed, which probably looks weird. maybe delay values could help).
dunno if this would make much sense, just an idea...
Quake CD Music
#4724 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/01/31 14:24:17
I remember asking a question about the Quake1 CD music and whether I could rip it off the CD and play it from my hard drive.
Because I used Fitzquake it seemed not to able to be done.
So anyway, there I am thinking more about this when I look at the Quake CD and cannot see any music files. Can anyone tell me how to extract the music files?
JoeQuake
#4725 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.50] on 2006/01/31 14:38:01
I just recalled that JoeQ has a custom filter mechanism; via cvars you can filter out gibs or corpses. I'd assume that if this was enabled, you might get less packet overflows in JoeQ.
Hmm, if I recall correctly, the filter was on the client side and packet overflows occur on the server side ... then maybe it doesn't make a difference after all in this case.
Mike
#4726 posted by negke [82.83.43.231] on 2006/01/31 14:39:46
any cd-ripping program will do, like eac (exactaudiocopy) for example.
Hole Walking
#4727 posted by ijed [201.246.115.160] on 2006/01/31 15:18:08
how do I trick the normal AI into believing that (eg.) a grate in the floor can be walked over by a monster? Can I do it when the grate is a func_wall? I tried a clip brush . . .
Easy Help For The Packet Overflows
#4728 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/01/31 16:24:59
If packet overflows are only occuring when you start gibbing things, there are a few easy changes you can make to the progs that will reduce the problem. One is just to reduce the lifetime of the gibs, probably look in ThrowGib to do that. You could also alter the monsters to spawn fewer gibs when they die, or set a higher threshold for gibbing so fewer of them do so. The latter solution is more work though, as you have to alter such settings on a per monster basis.
A more sofisticated method would be to have a cap on the number of gibs there can be in the level, say 20, and remove the oldest one each time a new gib needed to be spawned. This would also be a much more substantial coding effort.
ijed: You can try filling the gaps with "skip" brushes, search through this thread on google or something for some details on how to use them/where to get the skippy program from. The problem with this method is it makes the floor truely solid, so you can't fire through it/drop grenades down the gap. If the grate is quite fine, and you don't need anyone to fire through, you should be alright. But if that's gonna cause problems with the combat, then you may be stuck, I don't know of a real fix for that one.
Ijed...
#4729 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2006/01/31 18:23:10
...I had a similar problem recently. I eventually populated that area with flying and jumping enemy (scrag and fiend) and that got around the problem to a degree. I contemplated a matrix of monster_jumps but because of the architecture it all looked too meh! If the path to travel is simple enough (single grate and only two directions to travel) the monster_jump might work without looking naff.
On another note, I was pleasantly surprised the other day to find that Death Knights and Knights can cross the continuous moving platforms in DM2 with relative ease. (The moving plats just around the corner from the lava trap room) How can they do this but baulk at some grates that the player has no trouble traversing?
Yes aguirRe I'll send you the .map if you want :)
Fuckity Fuck Sticks.
#4730 posted by Tron [202.7.183.130] on 2006/01/31 19:30:25
Last night I was doing some work on my D3 map and the computer froze up during a compile.
I waited a while in case it unfroze but that didn't happen so I had to hit the reset button.
The .map file was subsequently screwed, however I wasn't too worried as I simply went into the maps directory and pulled out the last .bak file.
It won't load. :(
Gives me this error when I try to load it into the editor:
"ERROR: file C:\Program Files\Doom 3\base\maps\abd3sp1\008_3_bak.map, line 45492: couldn't read expected floating point number"
At this point I start shivering uncontrollably. Due to foolishness on my part I have about two weeks worth of mapping unsaved since the last backup.
Basically, all I am asking is that if I get a text editor that shows you the line numbers, should I be able to simply delete the problamatic lines to get the map to load so I can salvage bits of it?
A Partial Huzzah!
#4731 posted by Tron [202.7.183.130] on 2006/01/31 20:30:05
After some digging around I found that a chunk of the .bak file is missing as well, a fair bit of geometry information and all the entity listings. Luckily, when I copied and pasted out a few random chunks of the geometry text into a new file I was able to rescue much of what I thought I had lost.
I will have to reinsert all the models and lighting for the newer areas, however that isn't much compared to having to rebuild it all. :)
Neg!ke
#4732 posted by Mike Woodham [86.142.25.187] on 2006/02/01 12:39:07
Thanks. Got them.
Cheers
#4733 posted by ijed [201.246.112.162] on 2006/02/01 15:01:04
Preach - I´ll give tyrann´s skip creating program a try - don´t need to shoot through the grate so this should be perfect.
Distrans - I reckon skip´s are the way to go cos I´m using custom monsters and haven´t made one yet that flies. Also, monster jumps will mean that the grate will be a 1 way area for monsters - and my grate´s in the centre of an open gallery type room.
Additional Concerns
#4734 posted by Ankh [83.17.205.242] on 2006/02/01 16:22:48
Can there be any connection between having too many func_walls in a level and packet overflows?
After I think about it, the packet overflow happens mostly after firing a weapon, even if all monsters are already dead. So there are no gibs flying around when the packet overflow occures (Preach sorry for misleading you). Only corpses and heads lying. The level doesn't have too many enemies (about 90 on hard skill), but the whole area could contain more than 1/3 of them.
Tried also standard winquake -> lots of packet overflow :(
JPL: I don't have any problems with entity count. Are you sure that using the spawning method you talk about can help with reducing packet overflow?
neg!ke: thanks for your input, probably I won't use it though :)
Ankh
#4735 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.168] on 2006/02/02 01:06:58
Func_walls are brush entites and as such add to the packer overflow limit. If the overflow is constant in an area where nothing dynamic is happening, then you've too many entities in view (typically corpses + other ents like func_walls).
Delayed spawning may not help here if there are no more monsters alive, but corpse removal will help substantially.
If you haven't already, use the r_draworder 1 command in WinQuake to see what the engines renders atm. This will especially reveal the entities in view.
Ankh
#4736 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/02/02 04:45:03
Yes, CDA's progs.dat has been provided by aguirRe, and allow to make monsters appear, and then remove them when they die... As I understood, this is the "dynamic" entity count that generates packet overflow... As progs.dat It affect entity count, and also decrease what the engine have to render, it then avoid packet overflow if well used.. Ask aguirRe for further informations ;)
Some Further Info On Packet Overflow And The Like
#4737 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/02/02 06:24:15
Static entities won't ever cause apacket overflow, as once they are made static the server never updates them. So wall torches are fine, and if you can change any of the func_wall ents to func_illusionary ents then they will also not have an effect. However, by my testing a func_wall shouldn't really cause a packet overflow either.
As an experiment, try putting into seperate large boxmaps 100 knights, 100 func_walls and 100 torches. You should find that the knights cause packet overflows but that the other two don't. There's no simple relationship between number of entities and whether you will get packet overflows. Things like monsters, that will be animating, changing direction and making sounds almost every frame will send lots of messages from the server to the client. A func_wall does almost nothing all the time, and will only generate a message if you trigger it to change its texture or killtarget it.
From what I've heard, it sounds like corpse removal may help you out here. I can't quite explain why a corpse seems to count towards packet overflows while something like a rocket launcher doesn't...but removing the corpses is probably the best way it fix it.
Eh?
#4738 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/02/07 08:08:39
...will only generate a message if you trigger it to change its texture...
eh? run that one by me again?
From Misc.qc
#4739 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/02/07 08:59:13
void() func_wall_use =
{ // change to alternate textures
self.frame = 1 - self.frame;
};
I've never actually seen this work, though...
Never Tried It, But It Should Work
#4740 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/02/07 14:15:20
You need to use +0 and +a textures to make this work, i believe.
Yeah, It Works
#4741 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/02/07 17:17:02
tried it once, and yes, needs to be +0 and +a sequences. will swap between the two and animate them
File Selection
#4742 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/08 09:30:21
Will someone explain to me the logical reasoning why, when selecting a series of files in Windows, I must select the last file first in order to have the files be listed in sequential (alphabetic, numeric, etc) order? Shouldn't new selected files be appended to the end of the list?
Explanation
#4743 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/02/08 16:16:15
Because windows is a piece of shit.
I noticed that whatever order you select, one file is always out of order. This happens when enqueing files in winamp using the windows dialogue, and pisses me off quite a bit. Normally I get the first song at the end and the last song at the start. Maybe it doesn't happen in current versions, but it definitely used to happen. I blame Windows rather than Winamp.
Actually, someone did explain this to me once, but it was probably a really boring explanation, so I've forgotton now.
I Don't Know How That Ended Up In Mapping Help
#4744 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/08 19:05:41
I meant to post it in General Abuse since I was generally abusing Windows.
I can usually get around the selection problem, but sometimes it's difficult when I want to play some songs that start with my favorites and then transition into a certain mood or style. Having to think backwards about it can be difficult sometimes.
The only reason I can think of to do it this way is because by now it's a standard, and it's a standard because Windows made it a standard, and you have to stick with the standard because that's what people are used to, and you can't switch boats mid-stream, even if your boat is sinking and being overtaken by crocodiles and beetles, and about to go over a giant waterfall into a rocky pool where thousands of hungry cannibals are waiting on the shore eagerly anticipating the coming feast.
RPG:
#4745 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/02/08 19:38:21
I agree.
I also agree that where is SM69 for crying out loud?
No, You Can Switch
#4746 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/02/08 19:41:52
Sorry to keep posting about this here, but if something is badly designed/coded, then a well designed replacement will be easy for people to switch to if they give it half a chance. If Windows Vista fixes it (unlikely!) then I'm sure most people that notice will think, "Thank fuck, they finally fixed it." It's basically buggy behaviour - I'm sure nobody can be such a retard to actually design it that way.
Metlslime:
#4747 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/09 12:27:31
I agree.
I also agree that have you checked your pants lately?
Quoth Related Questions (mainly For Necros/Kell)
#4748 posted by than [219.62.0.8] on 2006/02/10 01:10:14
Since I am (still) working on a map using Quoth ents and textures, I thought I'd ask a couple of quick questions.
1. Are you guys still planning on releasing more content for Quoth
2. If so, do you reckon it will be ready before QExpo?
3. Is it possible for me to find out about the new content a little bit before release so that I can add any cool new stuff and fixes to my map before QExpo?
4. Do you think it is possible or desirable to increase the range from which the vore will throw fireballs? I find it occasionally annoying that they only have a range of a few hundred units or so.
By the way, my map is split into three large maps now, so I don't think I will have problems with precache models etc. I'm about 70-80% finished with the first map, and 0% on the other two, but I think I can do it before June/QExpo assuming that I don't have too much to do in my new job.
#4749 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/02/10 08:55:58
1. Maybe
2. No
3. I dunno if you can afford our rates.
4. Well, currently all the original monsters have a max range at which they are capped at (1000 units) So they can still shoot when you are fairly far, but they have a low chance of doing so. This was probably made that way so you don't get ganked while fighting close monsters by the farther ones you can barely see.
I'm not sure if changing the firing chance at long range is really the solution.
seriously, about 1 & 3, i can't really say much on that because i haven't seen kell in a while so we haven't really discussed anything about quoth for some time now.
The only thing i'm certain of is that if there is more quoth stuff, it would definatly not be ready for the qexpo this year as there would likely be a lot of stuff, most of which hasn't even been started yet (or just briefly touched upon).
AguirRe
#4750 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/02/14 01:12:04
What could be the reason for your light.exe to crash in windows xp? Too many lights in a map? Everything worked fine until yesterday when I have added some more lights and light.exe crashes now without any message (the last output is: "Using minlight value 15 from worldspawn"). Previous version of the map had 256 lights and it compiled well. Didn't have the time yesterday to make some test with removing lights and now I'm at work :)
Ankh
#4751 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.142] on 2006/02/14 06:21:33
If you're not using the latest Light 1.42, please try that and see if it helps. Otherwise I don't know really, 256 lights are not that much.
If you send me the zipped map+wad, I'll take a look at it.
Ankh
#4752 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.142] on 2006/02/14 06:34:04
If you're not using the latest Light 1.42, please try that and see if it helps. Otherwise I don't know really, 256 lights are not that much.
If you send me the zipped map+wad, I'll take a look at it.
AguirRe
#4753 posted by Ankh [83.16.98.218] on 2006/02/14 10:31:19
thanks. Since I have a good and working backup I will start working from this point. I have deleted all the lights I'v added recently but couldn't fix the problem. Strange.
Texture Quality
#4754 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/02/17 02:33:35
Maybe this is a stupid question but I have to ask it.
Let's ussume that I use textures from wad1.wad in a map. After this I extract all textures from the bsp file using Texmex and create a new wad2.wad. How is the texture quality ind wad2.wad compared to wad1.wad? In other words is there quality loss when packing/extracting textures from bsp files?
And also do the textures change anyhow if I use wad3 format instead of wad2?
Wad Format
#4755 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.174] on 2006/02/17 10:53:39
is loss-less (like bmp), so there shouldn't be any degradation. IIRC wad3 basically adds a palette for each wad instead of just assuming Q1 palette.
Q1 Colours
#4756 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.209] on 2006/02/19 10:45:18
I've noticed that the idGamma tool always seems to destroy the upper half of the greyscale ramp of the Q1 palette (slots 8-15). This can adversely affect textures with a lot of detail in the brighter end (e.g. in kjsp1 or Invein). I've uploaded a file http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/idg... that contains my standard Q1 palette with the greyscale ramp restored and a modified version that suits kjsp1 very well.
Just put either one of the supplied paks in your id1 directory, making sure you don't overwrite any existing paks (rename to higher number as necessary).
For those using engines that can load external tga textures, here's a tip that might enhance visuals in mods that use a lot of textures in different colours, usually suffering from bad dithering effects. Just load the mod bsp(s) into TexMex and export to tga to the "textures" subdirectory of the mod. Then either use them as they are or put them through e.g. a brightening/contrast filter in an image program (e.g. IrfanView).
Especially the latter can cause interesting effects as the filter works with the full 24-bit tgas, so no palette limitations will interfere. The end result is often much richer colour tones of each texture in-game. Experiment for best results.
Another simple trick is to convert all the textures into greyscale (still 24-bit); this will let you experience Quake in a b/w setting. All entities will still have colours, though.
How Do They...
#4757 posted by nico [213.178.93.177] on 2006/02/20 15:43:00
make those void maps.
Noob question...
I reckon in a "coagula" style map, the whole shit is put into a giant box, which is covered in some black texture. On the inside of the box floor and sides, there are trigger_hurts for the gibbing effect.
Is that about right?
What is the best way to build the outer box, just a giant cube? Does its shape and brushcount impact r_speeds, vis time and such, or does it not matter? Should it be made of sky brushes (i.e. using some black sky texture)?
Way up in this thread, I read about the brightness of monster models being related to the brush beneath it. In the void scenario, this is pitch black. Someone suggested putting a brighter solid brush under the black sky brush so scrags in the void would be properly lit. But later someone else said that you should not have any brushes outside of the map. Who is right? Or should one just not place scrags out in the void?
hope you can bear my n00b-ness.
Hey Nico...
#4758 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2006/02/20 19:49:42
...the whole shit is put into a giant box, or in some cases boxes.
Usually only the bottom of the box(es) are covered in trigger_hurts. Best to use three or so for each box; stacked but with small gaps horizontal.
The simpler the shape of the outside box the better. Shape does effect r_speeds in a complex relationship that is best explained by real better than I. Size is probably more of an issue for vis time with coagula maps. That's why some mappers cunningly break their coag maps into smaller sections (necros for instance).
The limit box should be made of sky brushes and painted with sky_void texture extracted from one of the coag maps. For even better performance, see if Kell will let you bundle his sky_void skybox with your map.
For monster in void lighting, put a spotlight in the centre of your map directly under the structure you build. Make it a spotlight with mangle 0 -90 0, then add an 'angle' field to the spotlight and give it a value of 180 (this increases the spotlight cone from the 60 degree default). You will need to cover (replace?) the bottom sky brush with a plain black brush.
One should definitely place hordes of scrags in the void, and one should definitely have fiends a plenty to trick into suicide.
Nico
#4759 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.33] on 2006/02/20 22:03:13
what distrans said and don't forget to fit one sky texture to the one side of the sky cube, thus you'll make polycount less. you can check polys with r_showtris 1 command in fitzquake.
Sky Brushen Questions Part Xxz
#4760 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2006/02/20 23:57:36
Is polycount less if you make just one face of the sky brushes sky tex (the one facing inwards of course) and others plain tex... since the plain tex faces are anyways discarded of during qbsp (if there are no leaks of course).
Aguirre's utils don't discard the other 5 faces if they are sky, although fitzquake maybe does this in the client then? (fuh doesn't, and you can't see through the sky if you float up in the map, contrary to id stock maps where you can see since the compiler was different, but the sky acts differently too. In fitz it's always correctly transparent from void.)
Also, faces that touch the skybrush are not removed in qbsp, even if they would be if the skybrush was normaltex instead ( => higher polycount with skytex).
What about lightmaps?
Can you upscale textures on sky brushes? If yes, what does that help besides lightmaps?
Niconbuz
#4761 posted by negke [82.83.63.45] on 2006/02/21 01:30:55
nico: dunno about distrans' solution, but it sounds strange to me to have proper sky brushes on all sides but a solid bottom...
as for the trigger_hurts - upscale their texture (to 99) to reduce light times.
vondur: huh? sky faces, at least in sky cubes, are only split into two polys anyway, so what's that trick about?
bambuz: sky textures are not affected by scaling iirc. the outside faces are always solid, shoot at the sky with the shotgun and showtris on. making only one face sky texured destroys the transparency. being able to look through sky brushes from the outside is a feature of fitzquake (thus client related).
there was a similar discussion before - better read the corresponding posts by aguirre some ## above.
Your Way Has Been Lit.
#4762 posted by nico [213.178.93.77] on 2006/02/21 07:28:35
Thanks distrans, vondur and neg!ke for the hints (vondur is taking time out from world domination to speak to me, wow).
oh mighty one, can u explain what you meant by "fit one sky texture to the one side of the sky cube"? use sky texture only for the inside? or scale them?
neg!ke of the speedmappery, how would you go about the lighting of scrags in the void if you dunno about distrans' spotlight solution?
anyway, I hope to be mapping away soon. I just learned how to copy and paste properly and as a result nearly shot myself (lucky I "don't have a gun"). arrgh. so much time wasted.
when u guys speedmap, just how excessively do you use copy and paste? do you grab some brush that looks approximately like what you need, c and p it and just modify it slightly? Or are most of the brushes in your maps newly created, innocent brushes?
and I suppose when terrain mapping, obscene amounts of copy and paste are used?
also when speedmapping, do you pick a standard wall texture first or do you create the architecture now and texture later? or do u texture as u go?
a side note: oh metlslime, func_msgboard sometimes gives internal server errors like "maximum process count for uid xxxxx reached" or so. just fyi.
Nico
#4763 posted by Vondur [85.140.31.33] on 2006/02/21 13:34:03
just to make one texture fit entire face of the cube (inner sides of it). but as nek!ge said it might had no difference if you use modern compilers... but i'd fit it anyway ;)
Neg!ke...
#4764 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2006/02/21 16:36:34
...I'm not 100% certain, but I believe one needs a solid non sky brush on the bottom for the monster-in-void-spotlight-trick to work.
If it's not required... even better performance! Easy to check & fix once the map is built though.
Void-lighting
#4765 posted by Kell [80.192.82.64] on 2006/02/22 00:57:25
Make the bottom brush that actually seals the map area a normal skybrush. Then make another brush that's about as wide as the skybrush, but place it so it's top surface is just below the top surface of the skybrush.
What I did in Chapter's "He Falls Like Lucifer" was to make the skybrushes 64 thick, then make the "black" textured brush 32 thick, and place it inside the bottom skybrush with a gap of 16 all the way around in all three axes.
Light the top of the black brush with spotlights that are set to have a cone less than 180 degrees ( this is so the light they emit only hits the top of the black brush, and doesn't seep up the sides of the actual architecture ).
Overscale the black texture on the inner brush by a lot, and do the same to all the sky texture too.
Nico
#4766 posted by negke [82.83.52.10] on 2006/02/22 01:00:11
hmm, all methods are i thought of turned out to be useless (light entities next to the monsters, well lit spawn rooms, even sun-/ambientlight). the spotlight trick distrans posted works. apparently the important thing for lighting monsters in void maps is that there has to be a solid brush beneath them (not necessarily the bottom of the cube).
iz's quite awkward, but then again maybe also adds some tension when the player can only see the scags once shoot or reach the structure.
copy/paste galore! i rarely create new brushes, most stuff is pasted. mostly because new brushes - at least in quest - always have the size of the texture³, whereas a pasted brush has already one or more dimensions right.
textures have to be applied as you build the wall/room/whatever. if it looks ok, you can move on and copy it around. building the architecture first and texturing it later is more than impractical.
Kell
#4767 posted by negke [82.83.52.10] on 2006/02/22 01:04:50
ah, i see. nice idea.
Map Converter Fun
#4768 posted by biff_debris. [71.80.66.121] on 2006/02/23 03:13:51
Trying to compile my old q1 maps using Sleepy's Map Converter and a .bat, and while some maps compile fine, others get the following message, followed by none of the compile progs doing their jobs and a lot of nothing being accomplished:
Parsing file c:\quake\id1\maps\bleh.map...Excep... EConvertError in Modul mapc
onv.exe bei 000077B6.
'' ist kein g&#8319;ltiger Integerwert.
With any new maps I start, it will get up to the 'Parsing file c:\quake\id1\maps\bleh.map...' part, and just stick there. Again, it works fine with other old maps, so I'm thinking everything is set up to work. If anyone else has run into this and has some sort of workaround, I would very much appreciate some help.
Sounds Like
#4769 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/02/23 04:01:55
it is finding a floating point number in your map in a place where it expects an integer.
Biff, are you using quoole? Biff, is this true?
Biff
#4770 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/23 12:28:08
I regret to inform you that this post is almost entirely worthless. The only thing I can say is that I remember getting that error two or three times, and each time it was 6-12 months apart so that I never remembered what the problem was when I encountered it. Since it's been about that length of time, and I don't use Sleepy's tool anymore, I don't remember exactly what the cause was. However, I do remember that each time it happened the problem was something trivial with the .map, and I would subsequently dopeslap myself before moving on.
Some things to check: is the map already in Q1 format? Are you giving the player a message that includes quotation marks? Do you have any crazy brushes with no volume, faces with no area, or other technical problems? (MapSpy could help determine the answer to this last problem.) Are you wearing sweatpants?
Sigh.
#4771 posted by biff_debris. [71.80.66.121] on 2006/02/23 15:49:16
1. No CZG, I am not using "quoole". I stay away from the hard stuff anymore.
2. RPG, what are you using instead of Sleepy's converter?
3. WTF is MapSpy (I'll prolly Google for it in a bit)...?
4. No sweatpants, but a pair of pajama bottoms my cousin and his wife gave me for Christmas. The weather here (as you may well know) has been too damned insane for consistent sweatgear wear.
2. RPG, What Are You Using Instead Of Sleepy's Converter?
#4772 posted by [59.167.106.114] on 2006/02/23 17:51:32
I don't know what RPG is using, but AguirRe's compile tools do the conversion for you, you just got to set the switch in you .bat or whatever
#4773 posted by [59.167.106.114] on 2006/02/23 17:56:50
At least the later versions of AguirRe's tools do.
Oh, Nice...
#4774 posted by biff_debris. [71.80.66.121] on 2006/02/23 18:36:15
But I'm not too swift on this .bat stuff: Is it possible for me to stick AguiRe's stuff in a seperate dir than the .wads, and still be able to compile, or do I need to have it all in the /id1 folder (where GTK needs the textures)?
#4775 posted by [59.167.106.114] on 2006/02/23 19:03:02
wad and tools in maps folder
textures extracted (.jpg)in id1/textures/q1_biffs tex
batch file eg,
qbsp.exe -q2map -oldaxis -transwater biffs.map
-q2map being the conversion switcheroo
can you have things in a different dir, dunno, prolly not, but I don't know, I've always only done it the one way, come to think about it, that's prolly why my wife left me, hmmm
Bat Files
#4776 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/02/23 19:26:21
if you put stuff in a different dir, you just need to specify the relative or full path to it in the bat file. Or, you use "cd" to switch to the qbsp dir. But, you might have to add the full or relative path to the map file in that case.
Biff
#4777 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/23 21:16:19
GTKR 1.5 can save directly to Q1 .map format, which eliminates the need for a pre-compiler like Sleepy's. That's what I'm using.
MapSpy is a very cool program which was originally written to solve a Q2-specific game error, but has been expanded to help track down generic .map errors, such as brushes with no volume, brushes with infinite volume, faces with no area, etc. http://mapspy.gamedesign.net/ No matter how much I tell people to try it, no one seems to use it. I distinctly remember explicitly telling someone it would solve his specific problem, but he still refused to download it and try it for some stupid reason--I think it was because he thought it only worked for Q2 maps, which is simply not the case. When you run the program, just ignore the Q2-specific output and look for any QBSP errors it mentions.
Regarding compiler locations, I have maps, compilers, and maps in id1/maps, and the wads in id1/. From there, I reference the full path of the .wads from the map ("wad" "d:\quake\id1\metal.wad") and just run the .bat compiler from id1\. Here's what the .bat looks like:
set BASEPATH=D:\Quake\workingq
%BASEPATH%\maps\qbsp.exe -oldaxis %BASEPATH%\maps\%1.map
%BASEPATH%\maps\vis.exe -level 4 %BASEPATH%\maps\%1.bsp
%BASEPATH%\maps\tyrlite.exe -nocount -extra -nominlimit %BASEPATH%\maps\%1.bsp
Awestome.
#4778 posted by biff_debris. [71.80.66.121] on 2006/02/24 03:11:54
Got it sorted out, I think -- the .wads in /id1, along with the compile.bat, and the tools in a separate folder. One more question, tho: I'm using AguiRe's stuff, and dunno where along the line to use his Bspinfo prog...
Thanks RPG and the rest, though -- looks like I'll actually be doing some Quake mapping this weekend =D
Bspinfo
#4779 posted by [59.167.99.250] on 2006/02/24 03:27:45
put it this way, use it when you need to use it ;)
Skybox
#4780 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/02/24 12:19:56
I was wondering how the skybox is used in Quake1 maps. Not the regular one, but the same as in Q2.
JPL
#4781 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.10] on 2006/02/24 14:17:23
Is your email working?
Trigger_push
#4782 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/25 09:30:39
Is there an easy way to allow monsters to use this: I do not want to use trigger_monsterjump?
According To The Qc
#4783 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/02/25 10:28:33
Monsters are effected by trigger_push by default.
They won't actively seek it out in any way, but when they touch it they will be sucked in.
Czg
#4784 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/25 11:51:00
I'm dropping a spawned ogre onto a trigger_push and he just does his own thing?
If I go onto it, everything is fine... whoosh. But he just runs up and down the length of the trigger and even stops in the middle of it if I no_clip and hover above him.
Any ideas?
Nope
#4785 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/02/25 12:44:29
:(
Czg
#4786 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/25 12:55:23
Oh dear :(
Well, To Be Slightly Helpful
#4787 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/02/25 13:03:56
I'm guessing (wildly) that it might be a conflict of sorts between the movetype of monsters and the monster being on the ground.
Perhaps try throwing the monster into the trigger with a monsterjump?
Also, if the monsters starts inside the trigger, there is a minute chance (or any chance at all?) that the touch isn't registered. I doubt this though.
I remember the good old map grc4beta had a fiend traveling down a windtunnel early on in the map, but I'm not sure if the trigger_push was overlayed by a trigger_monsterjump there or something.
I Have Seen A Horse Fly...
#4788 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/02/25 13:21:36
but never an ogre.
I have only ever gotten a monster to jump with a trigger_monsterjump. In fact, the only other things I have ever successfully seen respond to a trigger_push (besides the player) are grenades.
Let me know if you get it working :)
2 Things
#4789 posted by ijed [201.246.114.43] on 2006/02/25 16:49:04
CZG - Whats your email?
I tried the one in czg07 readme . . . I´d post the message here but I´ve goofed before on spoilers.
Website - how do I review old threads? (ie. not on the main page)
Thanks
Trigger_push
#4790 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/26 00:55:35
Looking at the triggers.qc it seems as though this works by use of 'velocity', which is not how monsters move. Therefore, it does not affect monsters; therefore, there is no easy way to use it for monsters without writing some code.
Trigger_push
#4791 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/26 02:38:56
OK, I'm getting there. I can now get monsters using the trigger-push, but it now leads to another problem...
How does the 'angle' entered in the editor get converted to the self.angles vector used by the qc code? (I'm making this assumption because 'angle' is not seen in the code)
Movedir And Trigger Push
#4792 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/02/26 04:44:41
The trigger_push uses the movedir vector for the direction that the velocity is added in. Movedir is set in the function SetMovedir() in subs.qc. SetMovedir() is always called by InitTrigger. The function setmovedir is quite self explanatory once you understand how .angles is set. Essentially the editor sets angles to '0 a 0' where a is the value of angle(note the absence of the s). This only allows you directions in the xy plane, so there's an extra hack added. If the angle is -1, Setmovedir converts this to a vertical vector pointing up. Similarly -2 produces an vector pointing down.
It's not a great way of doing it, since you can't have motion that's diagonally up and across. A good fix that would be backwards compatible would be to have a check before calling SetMovedir to see if movedir is already set. If it is, then normalise it but leave it otherwise unchanged. If it's not, call SetMovedir. That way you can choose to set the angle normally or override it with a custom movedir.
Mr Woodham
#4793 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/02/26 15:56:46
There are copious enemies in RPGSP1 that use trigger_push. When I tried it again years later, I too had difficulty. The fact that it works in RPGSP1 might be because I simultaneously spawned the monsters into the trigger_push and woke up them up at the same time. I.E.:
"classname" "trigger_relay"
"target" "m1_1"
"classname" "monster_ogre"
"targetname" "m1_1"
"classname" "trigger_teleport"
"targetname" "m1_1"
The monster was in the teleport, and the teleport targetted a destination hovering in the trigger_push.
Best wishes.
AguirRe
#4794 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/02/27 00:21:46
My ADSL line is still down at home... sorry for the delay... you have mail ;)
R.P.G.
#4795 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.186.3] on 2006/02/27 13:23:36
Well, rpgsp1 certainly works. (I enjoyed replaying it just now :)
It's interesting that you had problems 'years' later. I wonder if the progs.dat has evolved so much over the years that it has affected this particular area?
The most obvious thing that has changed with my progs.dat is that I no longer spawn monsters via the trigger_teleport method.
I have the (now, somewhat amended) 'style' flag option first put forward by Preach, and I have added an 'anger' flag to ensure transported monsters can be made angry as soon as they arrive if necessary to avoid extra triggers.
As I have now resolved my trigger_push problem by further qc enhancements (mmm... I use that word very reservedly in the light of this issue) I don't have the enthusiasm to revert to an old progs.dat to prove/disprove any of this. I am confident that what I am now doing is working OK, so I will press on with the map regardless.
But as always, it great talking to you guys and great fun trying to overcome these problems. Thanks for joining in.
Now all I've got to do is perfect the random trigger_monsterjump height/speed aspect and we're all cooking on gas...
Wtf?
#4796 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/01 09:09:38
The error is pretty easy to understand:
---- GrowRegions ----
model : *160
classname : func_door
*** ERROR 13: Entity with no valid brushes or textures
I used the problem checker in Worldcraft, and it also found some doors without brushes. I deleted them and recompiled, but got the exact same error. I opened the .map in a text editor and searched for all instances for func_door. There were a lot, but none of them were lacking brushes.
My map was compiling with no problems yesterday. I made some small alterations today and I get this shit. I haven't even modified or added any func_doors.
Could this be a WC glitch? The map is over 8000 brushes now - anyone else gone over that in WC 1.6?
There are 160 solid ents in the map, so presumably entity 160 is the problematic door that apparently doesn't exist.
Anyone got any ideas?
Wtf?
#4797 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/01 09:10:07
The error is pretty easy to understand:
---- GrowRegions ----
model : *160
classname : func_door
*** ERROR 13: Entity with no valid brushes or textures
I used the problem checker in Worldcraft, and it also found some doors without brushes. I deleted them and recompiled, but got the exact same error. I opened the .map in a text editor and searched for all instances for func_door. There were a lot, but none of them were lacking brushes.
My map was compiling with no problems yesterday. I made some small alterations today and I get this shit. I haven't even modified or added any func_doors.
Could this be a WC glitch? The map is over 8000 brushes now - anyone else gone over that in WC 1.6?
There are 160 solid ents in the map, so presumably entity 160 is the problematic door that apparently doesn't exist.
Anyone got any ideas?
Update (+ Grr...)
#4798 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/01 09:16:24
definitely only pressed submit once.
I tried removing the last entity I added (a func_wall), which didn't help. The door became ent 159. However, saving only visible objects with my funcs visgroup turned on allowed the map to compile, so perhaps there is a brush somewhere that has fucked up, or a rogue func in another visgroup that is causing the problem.
Sorry
#4799 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/01 09:27:26
problem fixed.
It was a fucking clip brush that I had accidentally tied to an entity. Thank god for being able to export only visible and visgroups, eh?
The Keyword
#4800 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.218] on 2006/03/01 10:24:35
was no valid brushes (or in this case their textures) ...
#4801 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/03/01 22:46:01
It should be possible for qbsp to create doors out of clip brushes. However, due to an engine bug they wouldn't actually work :)
Clip Doors
#4802 posted by negke [82.82.168.20] on 2006/03/02 00:48:45
do work if they include at least one brush (face?) with a visible texture. i made such a door by accident in sm108.
Neglke
#4803 posted by metlslime [67.170.212.123] on 2006/03/02 02:29:20
yes, but even then, there's an engine bug where the physics bounding box of the door will only include the visible brushes. So to make it work reliably, you can't have any clip brushes sticking out past the bounding box of the combined visible brushes.
Question (mainly For Aguire)
#4804 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/02 08:23:27
So I was mapping away and hit ctrl+s to save my map. However, instead of hitting it once, I hit it twice by accident and WC crashed (presumably whilst saving the map). I was a bit worried, but the map seemed to have saved fine and loaded up ok. The filesize wasn't weird either, so I assumed all was ok.
I continue mapping...
...hours pass...
...then I try to compile my map. It works, but I get a warning about a brush with 0 faces. It tells me the texture used on the brush, so I assume this is 0 faces after plane conversion. The error pops up twice more, once for each hull.
I did notice later whilst mapping that some unimportant brushes had vanished from my map when I reloaded it. Presumably, one of these brushes was half saved or something. Perhaps it's just a dodgy brush I managed to create with the clipper - but this normally crashes qbsp, so perhaps not.
Anyway, the question: How the fuck do I find and eliminate this brush? I could copy all the changes from the new version of my map into an older version, which would probably eliminate the warning, but it seems like lots of hassle for nothing. I won't convert to .map and find it in radiant, because I need the .rmf file for visgroup info as the map is very big and impossible to work with without them.
Can I find the coordinates of this brush with qbsp at all? The only info I got was that it was a brush with no faces and that it was using the texture hstn0. There are a lot of other brushes using that texture, and I can't find it using a text editor because I don't know exactly what I'm looking for and the .map file is huge.
Currently it is not a major problem (I hope), but if you, the A-team, or anyone else can help me, please reply.
Than
#4805 posted by Jago [217.152.220.34] on 2006/03/02 09:19:34
Holy crap, 8000 brushes in 1 Q1 map file? Haven't you run into map size/face/etc limits by now? How long does the beast take to fullvis? Also, screenshots plz.
Sorted!
#4806 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/02 09:29:07
I pwn! Of course, I should probably have tried harder to fix it before posting the above message.
For other people having problems with Rogue brushes, esp. those using Worldcraft, here are some tips:
1. Check to see if there is a brush with centre on the origin - in Worldcraft there should be a cross handle if there is. This could be the culprit.
2. In WC it is entirely possible to create invalid brushes if you don't know what you are doing, and often when you do. The worst kind are thin slivers created by cutting along a plane of a brush using the clipper. Try to be careful not to do this, because the slivers will crash bsp and can be hard to track down.
3. If you can't find a problem then try exporting only visible stuff to a map file and compiling. At first hide large chunks of the level. Once the problem dissapears, you know roughly which area the problem is in. Gradually export less and less visible brushes until you get something manageable containing the error - maybe a few hundred brushes at the most. This is easy to look through in the editor, and can also be checked with notepad without problems.
Jago
#4807 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/02 09:39:53
Tyrann has more in his map :)
I will probably be adding another 3000-4000 brushes. Hopefully it won't fuck up. The only thing I have to watch out for is the lightmap size and model precache problems. I want this to run on fitzquake, so don't want to exceed any limits like that.
The level isn't THAT big. It isn't small by any means, and packs a lot of gameplay into it, but it's no Marcher Fortress. It's not in a large style either, so no massive areas filled with 3478327 monsters and a quad - I wanted to make something a little simpler and small scale. I'm kind of regretting it now, but I think that I can still make it fun without changing what I have much.
If I can be bothered to make the planned follow up maps, then they will be on a larger scale (as with most current big maps).
It takes about 15-20 minutes to fully compile (light extra, not extra 4) I think. I have a pentium-m 2ghz 512mb system. When it is finally released, you will see that it isn't particularly spectacular scale wise, and that is probably why it doesn't take a long time to compile. That and perhaps my brushwork is decent. I dunno.
There are some old shots on my website http://than.leveldesign.org/ Maybe you can see from the screens that it has a fairly detailed look? There are lots of areas, and the detail level is fairly consistent. r_speeds don't really top 1000, but they are probably higher than usual.
Tyrann's Skip Util Causing Lighting Problems
#4808 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/03 05:43:46
I've been using this for a while to remove faces in my current map, and up until now I hadn't had any problems with it. However, recently I have started seeing blotchy, horrible lighting on a couple of walls in my map. Here is a shot of what I am talking about: http://than.leveldesign.org/files/...
I am certain skip caused this, because I disabled skip and the error was not present - all the lighting was fine.
Does anyone know why this happens and how it can be fixed. I run skip last of all, so perhaps I should try running light afterwards instead.
If nothing can fix this, it would be nice if there was a -removesurf <texname> switch in Aquire or Tyrann's versions of light ;) ;) ;)
p.s. the dodgy lighting occurs in areas at the boundaries of the level for some reason.
Skip
#4809 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/03/03 05:53:59
Well, Tyrann had said it had some bugs (and that he wasn't using it cause of that?), I never ran into any myself... I guess it probably has higher chances of happening on large levels.
Duh
#4810 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/03 06:04:48
fixed again.
yes, lighting after skip removal works.
Than
#4811 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.48] on 2006/03/03 06:07:53
I don't know how skip works, but you could try running vis after skip. If the vis data set is large (>1MB, e.g. when fastvis), skip might have capacity problems.
Errr .. Skip ???
#4812 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/03/03 06:13:58
What is skip ?
Mmmm...
#4813 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/03/03 06:43:54
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5...
...Skip
JPL
#4814 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/03 07:50:19
There are probably numerous references to skip in this very thread, but I'll explain it again, since I'm in a good mood. In fact, since I'm such a nice guy, I've uploaded it to my site here: http://than.leveldesign.org/files/... (26kb)
The skip removal tool is a small utility made a long time ago by Tyrann. It was never officially released, and I recall him saying he lost the source code to it. As it works fine as it is, I guess he never bothered to write it again and update it.
Anyway, the skip tool removes all surfaces from the visible hull of a BSP. The original intention of this was to remove surfaces that could not be seen by the player, such as those in high up places above where the player can reach, on the unseen sides of doors etc. This is probably still the main use. However, this also allows for a few cool tricks (creating invisible doors for one), that you can find out about by reading the previous posts in this thread.
Er...
#4815 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/03 08:38:31
I just noticed I made a rather large mistake in my explanation:
Anyway, the skip tool removes all surfaces from the visible hull of a BSP.
Should be:
Anyway, the skip tool removes all surfaces using a texture named "skip" from the visible hull of a BSP.
# Of Brushes
#4816 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/03 10:52:16
i have found that at about 10000 brushes, you start to run out of clipnodes, no matter how much you clip brushwork, just because the amount of areas that are present take up so many of the clipnodes.
careful!
Than
#4817 posted by Kell [80.192.82.64] on 2006/03/03 13:11:30
I had exactly the same type of lighting artifacts in the secret map of Contract, towards the end of its construction:
http://kell.leveldesign.org/screen...
I was using Tyrann's lighting util by then, but to make use of entity compression for the secret map, not skip. I don't think skip was even in the version I was using.
Maybe it's just a knave thing o_o
Thanks For The Tips, Necros
#4818 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/03 17:28:11
I have tons of arches that can be clipped, so if I run out, I will try clipping them. There's also not much rock in the level (there is a bit, but not like something like februus or czg07) so perhaps I'll be ok.
Anyway, as I said, the lighting glitch was fixed by using skip before light. I will try it before vis next time and see what happens.
Wtf is entity compression?
Entity Compression
#4819 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/03/03 22:09:51
Wtf is entity compression?
It's not really compression, but it reduces the amount of entity text present in the compiled bsp by removing key/value pairs from the light entities which are not needed after the lighting stage.
Than
#4820 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/03/04 13:31:36
Thanks a lot for all these cool informations ! You are really a nice guy ;)
JPL´s Opinion Seconded
#4821 posted by ijed [201.246.115.160] on 2006/03/04 18:21:34
Also
#4822 posted by ijed [201.246.115.160] on 2006/03/04 18:26:45
WC - try the most basic tool included - "check for problems" You´ve probably already done this, but if not; with Q1 it seems to be alot more finnicky and can find illegal entities, though with visgroups yor best bet is removing all before you try deleting a single part of one group - buggy behaviour (WC 1.6a) tends to seemingly randomly hide / delete depending on the order you originally did stuff in . . . 20 versions ago
either way - looking forward to the release
A Long Shot...
#4823 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/04 20:09:57
I'm sure everyone who knows the answer will tell me this map is basically doomed, but I'm trying to figure out a reason for this weird occurence. DuBSP is reporting that my map has leaks. What's unusual about it is that: 1) it only reports the leak while filling, but not while generating hulls. 2) it refuses to generate a pointfile, even when using -oldleak. I'm in the process of isolating parts of the map and compiling them individually but, maddeningly so, it always seems to be a different entity reached while filling.
For anyone feeling curious/helpful, here's the compiler dump.
DUBSP Disunion Level Compiler by Eric 'Riot' Lasota
Based on TreeQBSP v1.62 by Greg Lewis.
Input file: manatees.map
Output file: manatees.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
2439 faces
410 brushes
35 entities
50 unique texnames
627 texinfo
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
383 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
2277 brushfaces
3088 csgfaces
1580 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
2052 split nodes
832 solid leafs
1221 empty leafs
0 water leafs
3329 leaffaces
3096 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
1221 vis leafs
3309 vis portals
---- FillOutside ----
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (-112 352 88), no filling performed.
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
Processing hull 3...
---- WriteBSPFile ----
490 planes 9800
3533 vertexes 42396
2130 nodes 51120
627 texinfo 25080
3226 faces 64520
1701 clipnodes 13608
1294 leafs 36232
3467 marksurfaces 6934
12835 surfedges 51340
7955 edges 31820
50 textures 451444
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 3037
2.359 seconds elapsed
Bytes used: 4108697
thanks for looking.
Also Forgot To Mention
#4824 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/04 20:18:48
That when sealed (i.e. no openings to the grey void but only the mystery leaks) the map DOES create a workable .prt file that can be used by Vis. But if I noclip outside the playable area, all the faces on the outside are drawn. Normally I wouldn't even worry about such a small thing since most people's computers/engines today can handle a poorly constructed map without much difficulty but I want to keep the r_speeds low for speedrunning.
Hm...
#4825 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/05 11:52:18
i had something like this i ne_marb... basically, it was some complex geometry in the terrain area (where the shore is that leads to the cave) that was messing it up. you couldn't atually see any leaks but it was there... basically, i just ended up redoing a fair amount of brushes in that area to a much simpler look as it is now.
so that would be my only suggestion: find areas that have complex geometry (terrain, complex trims, etc) and try removing them and replacing them with simple placeholders. When the problem goes away, you know you've found the culprit(s), and can simplify/fix/remake/whatever
sorry i can't be of more help.
one last thing, i'd suggest trying out aguire's bsp compiler, it might have more luck on complex geometry
Aguire's Bsp Worked...
#4826 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/05 13:33:17
...by actually generating a pointfile so I could track down the leak. Thanks to biff, bal, and necros for suggesting it. Still a mystery why there were no leaks detected while processing the clipping hull but at this point I don't particularly care. :)
Fern
#4827 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.202] on 2006/03/07 01:22:29
Is it possible for you to rebuild the fr3n1m3 map using my qbsp? It's got those annoying tjunction sparklies. Or if you'd send me the zipped .map and I'll rebuild it myself.
Define
#4828 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/07 09:10:18
I asked for a link to yours and got txqbsp and treeqbsp. Whatever I used, it worked. But what am I SUPPOSED to be using? I hate those sparklies just as much as you. :)
Using
#4829 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.213] on 2006/03/07 15:33:54
my compilers, you don't have to do anything special; they both default to tjunction padding (= no sparklies). It's some of the old compilers (e.g. dubsp) that default to no tjunctions (= sparklies).
Yes Yes I Know What You Mean
#4830 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/08 06:24:12
But I was under the impression that I already WAS using your compilers. Is this the wrong URL or something?
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Well
#4831 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.125] on 2006/03/08 10:31:43
my initial request above was for the released fr3n1m3, which as far as I can see has the sparklies, i.e. it's either built with an older compiler (e.g. dubsp, which you also asked about before) or using my compilers and adding the -notjunc option (definitely not recommended).
The URL is correct, sorry for the confusion.
Lol :)
#4832 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/08 11:15:35
I'll probably fix it soon then.
Btw
#4833 posted by neg!ke [85.176.82.246] on 2006/03/08 13:13:59
How do make elevator buttons that move with the elevator?
so how is done now?
some trick as in half-life, like a fake button on the lift and triggers at the corresponding spots in its extended positions? but how could it be done (preferably without hacks) that it only works when the lift is in the right position?
maybe with a skip/clip door blocking the trigger that was just used after the lift starts moving, while unblocking the other...
a very basic question...
#4834 posted by czg [83.253.28.129] on 2006/03/08 13:45:42
I'm guessing some sort of crazy setup with trap_spikeshooter logic gates would do the trick. Still you can't make the button move first then move with the elevator though.
Well There Is One In Fr3n1m3...
#4835 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/08 15:10:26
using a really huge button that moves outside the playable area when pressed. I might do something similar but better looking in the next map just for the heck of it.
One Way To Do It Without Hacks...
#4836 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/10 17:34:44
...is use a mod like pox extras, that lets you attach buttons to lifts, moving water that actually works and have all manner of particle effects.
There is more stuff in there too. I don't think I've seen a map using this mod yet though :(
http://developer.chaoticbox.com/qu...
Hmm...
#4837 posted by negke [82.83.60.144] on 2006/03/12 01:38:43
yes ok. but i'd like to figure out how it could be done in vq (the manual way).
fern, where is it? - i couldn't find it in the map.
sounds like this way it would only work for one-time lifts or lifts that go back into their starting position after some time.
but i am thinking of a toggle lift (door).
dunno about the logic gates thing.
the button movement could be simulated through doors or trains with a button0 texture (and a button1 texture at the same spot on the lift itself) which then moves into the wall, so the button looks like it's been pressed. this method would still rely on the trigger, though, and only work if the lift/button was adjacent to a wall.
Person With Punctuation Nickname
#4838 posted by Fern [71.208.215.21] on 2006/03/12 19:19:40
it's the scarab button on the final lift, and the trick is basically the same as you described in your last paragraph.
Quake 3
#4839 posted by necros [142.150.45.94] on 2006/03/15 06:49:49
i've been trying to get into this a bit and i've found i have absolutely no idea about a lot of the stuff this engine can and can't do...
for example, are there any major engine limits similar to edict limit of quake1? can you make rotating brushes? how does clipping work for bounding boxes?
anyone know the answers to these questions? :P
Necros
#4840 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/03/15 07:52:14
I don't think there are any real engine limits, you'd be hard pressed to reach them if they're were I think.
Can't remember about rotating brushes, but if it's possible it should be obvious from the func_s available.
What do you mean about clipping on bounding boxes? For when you fire at models and such?
Well...
#4841 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/15 09:01:39
for example... does clipping work the same way it works in quake? ie: bsp generates different hulls for different sizes, meaning only certain size bboxes are allowed? or did id do proper collision and virtually any size is possible now?
and if i made a map with 5k rocket launchers, it wouldn't overload model limit or something?
Necros
#4842 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/03/15 09:14:20
Dunno about bounding boxes, considering it's a multiplayer game, I'm not so sure what they did in that area (all players have same bbox of course).
You can have 5000 rocket launchers in a map as far as I know, would just be slow depending on your machine of course. =)
What are you working on?
Necros
#4843 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/03/15 09:18:32
AFAIK the bsp process does not compute seperate hulls and all bboxes have collision computed dynamically.
Necros / Kell / Anyone
#4844 posted by ijed [200.113.145.161] on 2006/03/15 09:25:52
can you send me the qouth .fgd?
louismanningatgmaildotcom
I tried a few links and quite a few different types of searches but can't seem to lay my hands on it.
Cheers
#4845 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/15 12:07:21
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
and i don't want to say anything yet because i don't want to get anyone's hopes up. :P
AFAIK the bsp process does not compute seperate hulls and all bboxes have collision computed dynamically.
^_^ awesome, that's what i was hoping to hear.
Hehe
#4846 posted by Bal [83.199.71.12] on 2006/03/15 12:59:56
omg necros is making q3sp.
=)
Naw
#4847 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/15 20:44:48
it's a mod that makes all the players 500 lbs overweight! whenever you take damage, you gain weight, and if you hit 1000 lbs, you explode.
Btw
#4848 posted by necros [142.150.5.66] on 2006/03/16 06:50:26
are there edict limits in D3?
i have a map i'm working on, and it's getting rather large, lately.
does anyone know about problems larger d3 maps can run into? (it's all brushwork, no premodeled areas like the hell levels)
Necros
#4849 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/03/16 07:32:52
So when a player explodes, does it print the message "Player ate a wafer-thin mint"?
R.P.G.
#4850 posted by Kell [80.192.82.64] on 2006/03/16 10:44:18
it's "waffer theeeen" actually
LOL...
#4851 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/03/16 17:12:13
...necros resurrects that mod.
Kell, monster_ etc. is still your mail? I was wondering if you'd received mine.
...and, go the Scottish swimmers!!!
Those Bubbles In Q1
#4852 posted by Scragbait [65.92.64.83] on 2006/03/16 18:06:07
You know those little bubbles that people put in or underwater in Quake?
How do I put them into my map? I can't seem to find them in my Entity list in Worldcraft.
Better yet if someone could cnp the text to add to my fgd file.
^
#4853 posted by neg!ke [82.83.38.30] on 2006/03/17 00:48:10
air_bubbles
OoOoOoO
#4854 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/03/17 08:55:42
@PointClass base(Appearflags, Name) = air_bubbles : "Air bubbles" []
D3 And Edicts Etc.
#4855 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2006/03/21 06:23:58
No limits that I know of. How large map are we talking about? 20000 brushes, bigger?
#4856 posted by necros [142.150.4.59] on 2006/03/21 06:41:15
woah... not that many-- lol! more about 14k~ or so.
problem is it's no where near finished, so i could see it going as big as 20k or more. there's a lot left to do atm.
i was just asking so that i'd know in advance. thanks for that bit of info. :)
Lump File Issue
#4857 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/03/21 13:25:05
I have to modify a lump file (i.e conback.lmp) to create a custom console background. I used a tool called GFE (Game File Explorer) to export and save the bmp image embedded in the lmp file. My concerns is how to create a lmp file from the modified bmp file ? I guess it exists, at least, one tool that is able to perform this feature, so what is this tool (or these tools) ?
Thanks in advance.
Texmex Can Export To Lmp
#4858 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/03/21 13:58:33
http://www.planetquake.com/texmex/
Lumps
#4859 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/03/21 15:52:33
adquedit can also do this, though it is buggy and has been known to erase your data in certain circumstances. Otherwise it's a nice tool.
I actually wrote some command line windows tools that convert to and from .pcx and .lmp and .spr a while back, maybe I should release them.
Czg / Metlslime
#4860 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/03/21 22:25:56
czg: TexMex is installed on my PC, but I didn't check yet the feature. So thanks for the tip: I will check it this evening
metlslime: Yes, it would be great !
Thanks for the quick reply !
Btw. Where's The Difference
#4861 posted by negke [82.82.164.134] on 2006/03/22 00:12:17
between mipdip and adquedit and why do they look so much alike?
Err.. Not Adquedit
#4862 posted by negke [82.82.186.13] on 2006/03/22 09:09:57
but that one program which is basically the same, only with a different title...
Negilke
#4863 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/03/22 18:40:21
mipdip and qArt are the same program, but qArt is the name of it after it became a commercial product. It was offered by the same company that offererd qED and qME i think.
Thanks For Clarifying
#4864 posted by negke [82.82.164.180] on 2006/03/22 23:40:52
there was a time when i had to use qart, for mipdip wouldn't start anymore (or i was too dumb to fix it). now, both have been obsoleted by textmex anyway.
Are There Any Way...
#4865 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/03/27 16:09:36
to stop a weapon/item from rotating (minus QC, of course)?
Thanks in advance, Neg!ke :)
Yes
#4866 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/03/27 16:45:50
edit the model file and remove the 'rotate' flag on them. easy sleezy!
AWWW...
#4867 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/03/27 16:57:40
...POOP!
Or
#4868 posted by negke [82.82.162.94] on 2006/03/27 23:58:07
with some obscure func_illusionary/info_notnull model technique, whereby the acutal weapon (if it is supposed to be picked up) would be placed in a hole underneath it, with an illusionary + clip, or maybe a skip wall, only deep enough that its bbox stays some units above floor level. the weapon then has to killtarget the fake model when upon pickup.
might not work with a func_wall, for the item would likely drop out of the map. maybe a fast skip door pushing it up and thereby also making the floor solid would work better in this case.
of course this could also be done by having the weapon being pushed into the player from a hidden closet the wall, or let it drop from the ceiling (model-item dropping does not work with darkplaces, though), but these solutions would be even more visible to the player...
What?!?
#4869 posted by generic [156.75.192.108] on 2006/03/28 06:53:19
I not sure I understand, Neg!ke. Perhaps if you made me a sample map with some examples...or even a "complete" SP map with a few examples...or how about a 8-map Q1 Episode full of examples, then it would be clearer :)
Engine Limits
#4870 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/28 07:03:23
Ok, I've just been looking through the source and readmes on Aguire's site, and have found a list of Quake engine limits. However, I am not sure which of these are increased, and which aren't. I have a fairly good idea, but could someone be so kind as to correct me:
// Data-restrained limits
#define MAX_BSP_MODELS 256
#define MAX_BSP_PLANES 32767
#define MAX_BSP_NODES 32767
#define MAX_BSP_CLIPNODES 32767
#define MAX_BSP_LEAFS 32767 (8192)
#define MAX_BSP_VERTS 65535
#define MAX_BSP_FACES 65535 (32767)
#define MAX_BSP_MARKSURFACES 65535 (32767)
#define MAX_BSP_TEXINFO 32767
The bracketed parts are the limits of standard engines as far as I can tell. Perhaps some of the other limits have been increased. Aguire, please correct this list if it wrong ;)
Currently I got this output from my last compile:
---- WriteBSPFile ----
11217 planes 224340
36426 vertexes 437112
16427 nodes 394248
3923 texinfo 156920
29246 faces 584920
31759 clipnodes 254072
7357 leafs 205996
35086 marksurfaces 70172
130679 surfedges 522716
66440 edges 265760
87 textures 1258432
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 152870
Tyrann's skip tool is taking out a couple of hundred faces, but that's not enough considering what I am going to be adding.
I still want to make the map run in Fitzquake, winquake and glquake (currently it works in all three, no problem), but I have a couple more important areas to add, so perhaps it is impossible.
I am not too worried about clipnodes, because I haven't really done the clipping yet, so a lot can be saved there.
What the hell is going on with marksurfs though? The map is working fine, despite exceeding the marksurfs limit.
The numbers on the right hand side are the size of the data, right?
Metl: Any chance of a version of Fitzquake with increased surface and clipnode limits? I've don't even care if it doesn't support the new protocol, so long as it loads my map ;) Thankfully, the map still looks decent in bjpquake.
Bleh
#4871 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/03/28 07:11:00
Lucky, as soon as I go over the marksurfaces limit on my map, it crashes fitzquake. Fortunatly I've been able to lower them quite a bit thanks to aguirre.
Tips?
#4872 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/03/28 08:17:31
got any marksurf lowering tips? wtf are marksurfs anyway? Just surfaces? What are faces then? same?
Generic / Jpl
#4873 posted by negke [82.82.166.55] on 2006/03/28 09:44:45
generic: i forgot illusionaries can't be killed, so the model thing has to be done with the info_notnull/modelindex trick. i would have sent you a sample map already, but i have no idea how to get the modelindex to work. so if anyone was so kind to tell me how to find out the right number, i'd be glad (what's the command in aguirre's engine? how do i find the number in darkplaces if counting the modellist doesn't help?). bleh.
jpl:
about your trigger_push problem. :)
could it be that the malfunctioning trigger had angle "0"? with "360" it would have worked.
i could have thought of that possibility earlier...
Marksurfaces
#4874 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/03/28 10:19:28
I also have problems with marksurfaces and have all but given up on my current map because of it.
And they're only showing 33k and it crashes Fitzquake 0.80 - clipnodes are still under 30k.
And I haven't added all the intended trims yet.
And I haven't finished the final battle area.
And I have already split the map in two.
Jeez... 300+ monsters waiting to die!
Marksurfaces
#4875 posted by Bal [86.205.26.132] on 2006/03/28 10:47:39
I still don't quite understand what they are, and the tips aguirre gave me were really specific to my map, so probably wouldn't help you.
Best bet is probably to try pestering aguirre about it, he's wonderful for map fixing. =)
Neg!ke
#4876 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/03/28 10:51:26
Well, I don't know. I just finished the final build of the map concerned by this issue (it's ready for release, I will post it friday evening).. I changed the wind tunnel into a "walking" tunnel... sorry for this...
Anyway, thanks for the tips: I will try to make a test and see if it helps.
Mike W.
#4877 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/03/28 10:58:33
Well, it's pretty weird effectively. In "Castle of the Dark Ages" map, I had 35k marksurface / 31k clipnodes (if I remember well) and the map didn't crash at all... It sounds to depend also of your PC performances as well... though...
The last possibility you have (if you don't want to change too much your map), is at least to add a note (in txt file) to player stating that only aguirRe's GLQuake will support your map.
Good luck.
Generic / Mike W.
#4878 posted by negke [82.82.166.55] on 2006/03/28 11:13:47
generic: ok, i suck. i had the numbers right already, but it didn't work because of the think/nextthink fields preach used.
unfortunately, it didn't work out (or at least i couldn't get it to work properly): either there is a model that can't be removed, or a model that still rotates. check the useless test maps here: http://negative.net.tc/files/wtest...
so i have to give up on this :/
mike: stupid idea maybe, but what about creating new textures - walls that already have trims, details etc. - to reduce brushes and therefore possibly marksurfaces (dunno if they are even related)
So Many Questions
#4879 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.215] on 2006/03/28 11:36:28
than: The various Q1 limits are today a pretty complex issue. In general, you have various tools and engines, file and protocol formats and even bugs that all cooperate to make things difficult. Also, the network protocol isn't just for "networking"; it's always in use since the engine is built with a client-server design. Even demos are completely protocol bound, as they are in fact just recorded server network messages.
I'll just try to comment on your qbsp printout. The only limits you're close to or exceeding are the clipnodes/marksurfs, both must be <32k for normal engines. Clipnodes I've commented in my ToolTips, but marksurfs are more difficult. Search this thread for numerous comments. And yes, the rightmost qbsp printout numbers are lump sizes in bytes (not very useful for most people).
neg!ke: The standard engine command for model printout is "mcache". I'm not sure it'll give you what you're after, though.
Neg!ke...
#4880 posted by generic [156.75.192.108] on 2006/03/28 11:53:13
You do suck on so many levels :p but I will download your crappy test map anyways (because I tend to download anything you do :) ) and continue to turn in my speedmaps late ;)
Thanks for all the effort anyways but I have already come up with a separate solution. I never really needed the items to "work" -- I just needed them to sit still and look pretty :p
And To Clarify
#4881 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.215] on 2006/03/28 11:55:38
the elusive marksurfs limit, it doesn't depend on computer speed or anything similar. When the limit is exceeded in an engine that hasn't fixed the 32k bug, engine internal memory is trashed.
As with all memory trashing scenarios, it may or may not affect functionality depending on how the memory is used at that time or later. Since IIRC this particular memory is on the Quake heap, it may help to change heapsize.
Marksurfaces
#4882 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/03/28 12:06:53
As I understand it, marksurfaces are just polygons. So basically every visible brush face in your map is one or more marksurfaces. It becomes more that one marksurface if:
- It is bigger than 240 pixels in x or y texture directions
- It is intersected by another brush/surface
- A t-junction lies on one of it's edges
Two ways you can reduce the number of marksurfaces are to do with textures. You can combine them as suggested by neg!ke (i.e. reducing the number of brush faces in the first place). Or secondly, you can scale up textures in places if appropriate, to reduce the amount of surface subdivision taking place.
Thanks
#4883 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/03/28 13:03:11
JPL: I use Fitzquake080 as standard, which is great for everything except synconisation of flames and use of music files direct from the HD. I am not sure that aguirRe's engine is used by enough people.
neg!ke: I try not to use trims combined in textures because we get the "painted on trims" rant from Shambler everytime! And I've probably said that too loud, Shhhh, he'll wake up.
Tyrann: I just did a test on the smaller of the two maps -
First, an oft used texture (ground1, which is normally 128 x 128) at 64 x 64:-
11016 planes 220320
31312 vertexes 375744
12616 nodes 302784
2670 texinfo 106800
24475 faces 489500
26354 clipnodes 210832
6924 leafs 193872
30786 marksurfaces 61572
113476 surfedges 453904
57059 edges 228236
133 textures 1915296
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 72453
and then the same texture increased to 256 x 256:-
11016 planes 220320
31312 vertexes 375744
12616 nodes 302784
2670 texinfo 106800
24475 faces 489500
26354 clipnodes 210832
6924 leafs 193872
30786 marksurfaces 61572
113476 surfedges 453904
57059 edges 228236
133 textures 1996896
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 72453
Only the texture lump changed: marksurfaces stay the same.
Still, just looking through the map again has roused my interest. I might chop out one of the side-rooms and at least try to release something playable.
Mike
#4884 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/03/28 13:50:47
No, that won't make a difference. What I was trying to say is that you could set the texture scale in the editor higher than 1 (i.e. stretch the textures).
I Must Be Doing Something Wrong
#4885 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/03/28 14:14:55
I stretched a rock texture to 2 x 2. I am not sure which texture I got rid of (by accident) but it still doesn't help marksurfaces although some of the figures have changed:-
11016 planes 220320
31285 vertexes 375420
12751 nodes 306024
2665 texinfo 106600
24640 faces 492800
26185 clipnodes 209480
7001 leafs 196028
30882 marksurfaces 61764
113902 surfedges 455608
57276 edges 229104
132 textures 1926132
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 72453
Mind you, I think the rocks look better now!
Strange
#4886 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/03/28 14:26:13
I don't really see how that could cause a marksurface increase like that, but it may not result in a reduction if the polygons aren't that large to start with. I agree that rocks/grass do tend to look better with a higher scale when there's a lot of it - I'm currently using a 1.5 scale on mine.
Total Commander PAK Plugin
#4887 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.220] on 2006/03/28 15:36:43
If anyone is using this plugin to manage Q1 PAK files, you might be interested in some improvements I've been working on lately.
I'm currently not considering a public release, so if you're interested, just email me.
Marksurfaces Explanation:
#4888 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/03/28 23:05:25
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
P.S. Yes, this means I finally coded a way to specify a range of posts. Thread paging is a little bit closer.
Tyrann's Tip...
#4889 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/03/28 23:39:38
About texture scale in relation to marksurfaces is very useful, upping the scale of sky textures, and trigger texture (I have lots of very large trigger_hurt brushes in my map) can lower the marksurface count considerably.
I still fail to understand why these limits still exist, but that's probably just because I'm stupid.
Oh, and metl, I luv you.
Non Rotating Nailgun
#4890 posted by Preach [86.129.213.107] on 2006/03/29 03:33:18
Had a bash at this, think I've got a good fix, at the least there are some interesting ideas that result from it. It's not possible to make the actual nailgun model stop rotating without modifying the model file, the rotate flag can't even be overridden in QC. So what this map does is creates a bsp model that approximates the nailgun, and has that in the map. You'll want ogro's texture wad if you want to see it in all it's glory.
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
Ok, so I'll explain what all the entities do. The func_wall in the second room is just there to make the compiler compile the brush entity we need, so that it has modelindex 2. After the map is compiled you could safely remove this entity with adquedit or something. One thing to notice is that it's been very carefully placed near the origin. This is so its easy to place in the map with the next entity.
The next entity is the one that makes it visible but non solid, the point entity info_notnull. This uses the SUB_regen hack to load a model by it's modelindex. The modelindex is set to 2, so it loads the nailgun model we just made. The model and mdl fields are necessary dummy fields, as long as they have some model in then it works. Why didn't we just use a func_illusionary? Because this way, the entity isn't static, so we can killtarget it. The standard trigger_once kills it when we touch it.
At the same time the player touches the trigger_once, they will also touch the brush info_notnull. This uses the good old trigger hack, so we can make a brush trigger with an arbitary touch function(look at the think and nextthink to see how it works). This time we set the touch function to BackpackTouch, and then the rest of the fields are set to match a backpack that only contains a nailgun(items 4, netname nailgun, ammo_nails 30).
The BackpackTouch function can be used as a trigger in more general situations. You could give it a netname of "weapons" and then set the items field to some sum of weaponflags to give all those items at once. Be warned though, if the player already has any of those weapons the message will skip straight to the ammo summary. A good way perhaps of giving the player weapons on startup would be to use this trigger with no ammo, and netname "\n\n\n\n"(enough backslashes to push the "you got" message offscreen).
You can also set any of the other itemflags, but most of them won't do anything. The powerups flags will tint the screen, but won't actually give the player anything. Similarly the armour flags will only make a cosmetic change. The keys, however, do work as you expect, so you can give those out by trigger. Potentially you could try removing items this way as well, but I haven't got it to work...Anyway, have fun with that.
Holy God Preach
#4891 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/03/29 03:48:13
Lol
#4892 posted by necros [142.150.45.188] on 2006/03/29 06:25:42
there are so many holes in quakec, you wouldn't even be able to contain molasses in it! :o
good job on figuring that out, dude!
Btw:
#4893 posted by necros [142.150.45.188] on 2006/03/29 06:31:07
P.S. Yes, this means I finally coded a way to specify a range of posts. Thread paging is a little bit closer.
thank you! :D this will make searching through the larger threads a lot easier, as mozilla kept crashing when loading more than 1k posts at a time. (too much quake goodness in the same page? :P )
cheers, dude ^_^
How Do I...
#4894 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/01 06:23:33
I have been given a monster in .mdl format, 1400 tris and no skin. It has potential to be a good monster Quake style but I don't know if I have the potential to make it one.
I have access to 3DMAX and/or Maya7 for several hours per week. I don't use them and know nothing much about them. Which should I try to learn, and I don't have time to learn both and make an informed decision, to a) reduce the tris, b) animate the monster.
Also, what should I use when it comes to skin the monster.
Mmmm..., am I expecting too much?
Monsters
#4895 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/04/01 07:04:09
Qmle should get you on your way, but I think you knew that already.
http://www-static.cc.gatech.edu/cl...
Well...
#4896 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/01 08:25:54
it's really hard to make a decision between max and maya as they are both excellent modelling programs.
however, if you're just doing this for quake, i'd say max might be your best bet.
i found it was slightly easier to learn than maya. the only real reason to pick maya over max would be if you were going into the industry, maya is more widely used.
but max has excellent tools for modifying meshes to reduce polycount, and it has fully developed bones/animation system.
as an example, all the animation for the quoth monsters was done in max.
but i won't lie to you... it will take you a long time to learn all the tools. there are just so many. but once you do, pretty much anything is possible.
Max Vs Maya
#4897 posted by than [220.97.92.40] on 2006/04/01 18:13:05
Alias was recently aquired by Discreet (the company that makes Max), so perhaps the two will become more and more alike. I doubt either will be phased out, however, as they both provide Discreet with a nice revenue stream at the moment.
I find Max a lot easier to learn, less buggy (we are talking recent versions here) and with a generally better interface. Maya has a lot of nice features that Max doesn't have (last time I checked), but some of the basic modelling features of Max just shit on those of Maya - the interface for using them is generally loads better too.
I've heard that Maya is better for texturing and animation, and whilst the animation side seems really good (not that I have done anything complex, but it is very easy to set up a skelton, weight a skin and get animating). The texturing features of both programs are not too different, but I find Max a little easier, perhaps because I was already used to the rest of the program when I tried actually skinning something with it (I used to use in-house tools at my previous job for level texturing, which were better than both Max and Maya :)
I find Maya requires the user to do a lot of extra selection and deselection that Max does not require, making Max slightly easier to work with and more time-efficient.
Just Wondering
#4898 posted by Drew [202.76.133.174] on 2006/04/01 23:23:24
AguirRe, do you ever make maps?
Max Vs Maya
#4899 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/02 00:07:21
Madfox: thanks for that link, it was very informative although most of the links on that page were down.
necros/than: OK, I guess Max it is. I've already had a first look at the program with a one hour session last night. Gulp! I have a very tatty copy of 3DSMAX Bible so on my next session I am going to try to make the Three Fingered Gaaboot and we'll see what transpires.
Thanks chaps.
Drew
#4900 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.94] on 2006/04/02 00:52:01
I haven't actually created any maps of my own, but I've been extensively through most of the paces to build/repair maps.
I believe that without that experience or the source map contributions and suggestions from many mappers, it would've been very difficult to improve on the tools/engines.
Yeah
#4901 posted by Drew [202.76.133.174] on 2006/04/02 23:15:20
I was just wondering if you had your leakproof, fully vised first map sitting around somewhere.
Win Lose Or Draw
#4902 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/04/03 13:04:20
I can give you my last HOM maps that were so leakfull they couldn't sit anywhere without wondering around...
and I'm gratefull to get some good advice to make them playable before they got lost in Quake's void.
Like to beta test Drew?
Er... Metlslime
#4903 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/03 14:36:05
I've a memory live a sieve so can you just play along here?
Does Fitzquake change liquids to always be fullbright? I have the texture 'brimstone' and it has no fullbrights. I simply add an * to the front of the name, and although I get my warping liquid effect, I also get fullbright.
But I really do want non-fullbright liquid. Am I missing something? I want all other fullbrights to remain, I just don't want this one liquid to be fullbright.
I've done the usual things with TexMex and the same texture without the '*' is definitely not fullbright. Put the '*' in and it lights up like... well like something pretty damn bright.
Mike:
#4904 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/04/03 16:53:41
That's quake. Liquids do not get lightmaps, so they are always uniformly bright. Darkplaces is the only engine I'm aware of that breaks this functionality.
Metlslime
#4905 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/04 11:10:23
Double bugger, twice!
But thanks for the info anyway.
Map Compile Problem
#4906 posted by vegetous [201.54.211.25] on 2006/04/04 13:33:36
Baker,
I'm having some problems with Quark! All my maps gives this message when I try to connect to a server running it: "map model file does not match"
[url=http://img108.imageshack.us/m...
If I run the map directly into the client, there's no problem and it works fine!
This happens with any map I compile! Even with the basic map created by Quark (a square with a spawnpoint).
I already tried all kinds of Qbsp, VIS and Light utilities. A friend of mine, who is also trying to make some maps, has the same problems. Plus, he tried other tools too (worldcraft, qoole) and he always get the same erros.
I asked Trinca about it and he said to me he does exactly the same as I do, but unlike my case, there's no error.
I would appreciate any help, thanks!
About My Last Post
#4907 posted by vegetous [201.54.211.25] on 2006/04/04 14:10:57
The "Baker" in the last message is there because I copied this message from a thread at quakeone.com.
And here is the link to the image of the error message.
http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php...
TKS!
I've Never Seen
#4908 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.81] on 2006/04/04 15:06:52
that message before (it's QW specific), but looking at the Fuh source, have you tried disabling cvar sv_mapcheck?
#4909 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2006/04/04 16:29:08
the server has a different version than you have, i have had friends getting this when trying to connect to a server with a map and another version of the map is on the client
OR
you have 2 version of the same map 1 in id1/maps 1 in qw/maps then the same happens
Madfox
#4910 posted by Drew [202.76.133.174] on 2006/04/04 21:02:50
I'd beta for you, but I can't right now. no computer, no quake.
Vege
#4911 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.27] on 2006/04/05 06:21:27
check that you don't have a map of the same name in both id1/maps and qw/maps or other directories. I always put my maps in id1/maps.
Also, try running in fitzquake / aguirre's quake if all else fails.
???
#4912 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/04/05 07:50:47
Does anyone know how I can extract Daikatana textures from a BSP into TGAs?
I'd like to try them out in JPL's new map.
Thanks.
DKT Texture Sets
#4913 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/04/05 08:05:31
If anyone need the four DKT texture sets, just send me an email, and I will send you the stuff.
Note that it is 15MB zipped...
JPL...
#4914 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/04/05 08:32:51
Are those texture sets in (native?) DKT WAL format or are they Q1 WAD files?
I'm Also
#4915 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.156] on 2006/04/05 10:52:54
interested if anyone has the original 24-bit texes, AFAIK JPL has only got the 8-bit WADs.
There is a relased Q3A map with some of the Event texes in 24-bit jpgs and they look fabulous.
Generic
#4916 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/04/05 11:34:26
As aguirRe said, it is only 8-bit wad files....
Generic
#4917 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.82] on 2006/04/05 11:52:46
To answer your original question, you can e.g. use TexMex to extract the 8-bit bsp texes and save to tga. There won't be any big difference of course as this process is also made in the GL-engines automatically.
However, if you use idgamma normally there'll be a difference if you don't also adjust the tgas in a similar way (which is very difficult, but can produce interesting results).
AguirRe...
#4918 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/04/05 12:36:25
I meant DKT BSP files, which TexMex can't seem to open :\
I have the original DKT WAL files but Wally doesn't like their format :\
So far the only solution is to convert them to BMP with Daiwal and use some other batch software to convert them to TGA. I downloaded Advanced Batch Converter but it only does 6 images at a time in demo mode :\
I can send you the WALs if you likey :)
Definitely Interesting
#4919 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.30] on 2006/04/05 13:34:03
How much is the total amount compressed (7-zip, rar or zip in that preferred order)? Can you upload it somewhere and offer a link?
If you want to batch convert pics, I can recommend IrfanView ( http://www.irfanview.com ), it's small, free and very good at batch conversion. XnView is another pretty good free pic viewer/converter.
AguirRe
#4920 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/04/05 15:14:31
~50MB zipped w/o removing any redundant files from the 47 folders.
I will try to break them up into bite-sized chunks and email(?) them to you -- probably not until next week though ;)
I will also give IrfanView a go. Cheers for the link.
50MB Is OK
#4921 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.32] on 2006/04/05 15:44:39
but via email might be problematic, even split up (e.g. account limits). Since binary data is encoded, it will also be much bigger as email attachments.
Best thing would be if you could upload it somewhere and offer a link. That way other people could also get it while it's up. But if you can't, we'll try the email variant.
ARGH! (Aguire)
#4922 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/05 16:49:54
Two problems. One compiling, and one running my map.
BSP and VIS seem to run fine. Light crashes at startup after printing the following:
1686 entities read, 1318 are lights, 29578 faces, 3.6G casts
4 switchable light styles
That is a lot of lights, but it's worked fine until now.
When I try to run the map in fitzquake, it crashes. When I try Aguire's engine I get the following error:
Mod_SetParent: excessive tree depth in maps/current.bsp
The BSP stats of the map are now as follows:
11437 planes 228740
36809 vertexes 441708
16595 nodes 398280
3945 texinfo 157800
29578 faces 591560
32985 clipnodes 263880
7389 leafs 206892
35419 marksurfaces 70838
132081 surfedges 528324
67155 edges 268620
87 textures 1258432
VIS gave some nasty sounding numbers, but no warning:
average leafs visible: 149
max leafs visible: 522 near (384 960 -615)
c_chains: 28770619
visdatasize: 156 kb compressed from 1090 kb
I realise that I have exceeded marksurfs and clipnodes. The clipnodes can be reduced easily, but I don't want to start doing that yet unless it is the cause of this problem. I exceeded marksurfs before, with no errors.
Please help!
Note: After previewing my post I noticed that VIS has given me a coordinate for Max leafs visible. Is this the problem? Is the limit 512?
Generic
#4923 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.79] on 2006/04/05 17:06:48
couldn't you upload to quaddicted?
And if you compress using rar - multiple copies of same texture doesn't take any extra space since it uses compression between files too, unlike zip. (It can also chop up nicely.)
Than
#4924 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.250] on 2006/04/06 02:56:33
I put in that error check to prevent bsps with corrupt node trees from generating an engine stack fault (which is probably why Fitz crashes). It indicates that the bsp node tree is too deeply nested.
The amount of nodes and leafs from your printout is not over any limit yet, so either the bsp has become corrupt somehow, your map is too complex or I'll have to increase the tree depth limit (currently 4096 and 8192 seems to generate stack fault).
I'll need the zipped bsp to investigate further. Btw, which qbsp/vis/light versions are you using?
The RVis max leafs printout is not a warning or error; just to help you locate the spot where many leafs are visible from and thus is likely to be slow in-game.
Aguire
#4925 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/04/06 03:37:37
The tools I am using are mainly Tyrann's, since I never had any problems with them (except Tyrlite) and so I am only using your light. I will try your other utils tonight, after I make some more adjustments to the area that possibly caused the problem.
Why do you think light crashed? Is there a max number of lights (surely it is impossible to cross that line).
If I can't get things working by tomorrow morning, I will send you the zipped bsp. Cheers for offering to help =]
Light Crash
#4926 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.127] on 2006/04/06 03:56:59
Since Light also loads the bsp node tree to do raytracing (check point-to-point visibility), it'll probably crash for the same reason; stack overflow. I haven't put that check into Light yet, my engines have the most robust file loading code.
Yes, please check with my TxQBSP to see if there's any difference. You shouldn't need to run vis/light before loading the bsp into the engine, as they don't touch the bsp node tree.
Temporary Fix
#4927 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/06 06:24:48
I blocked up a window in a lift shaft and it fixed the problem. The same lift shaft has got some serious visibility issues (well, the r_speeds go to around 1300 when you ride it because I can't get it to split horizontally and the rooms at the bottom and middle are both visible at once), so I am not surprised it helped. I am going to be working away on this area tonight, so if it fucks up again tomorrow I'll mention it. Fingers crossed.
Aguire...
#4928 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/06 08:56:39
your vis program does not compile the level. I get this error:
************ ERROR ************
LoadPortals: portalleafs 5692 exceed bsp leafs 3281
This was using your modified treeqbsp.
Tyrann's rvis+ seems to be handling it fine using the same bsp'd map I tried with your vis. It also works with Tyrann's qbsp.
Note that I have not seen any visual problems with the map recently, and it seems to work fine in all respects (aside from the recent compile problems).
The map is compiling happily now, hopefully it will finish without fucking up.
You Know, Than
#4929 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.67] on 2006/04/06 11:41:48
You've repeatedly asked for help with more or less odd questions or bug reports regarding my tools or engines.
Each time I've tried to figure out what you're doing and each time I've asked for some material so I can investigate what happens. Each time you've "fixed" it yourself and each time you've refused to send me the material I've asked for.
Maybe you should actually do the right thing now? I need the zipped map+wad to be able to reproduce the problems you describe.
You Know, Aguire...
#4930 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/06 17:29:59
you're right. Sorry.
I've encountered another problem now. Light isn't working. I will send the .map and wad :)
Thanks
#4931 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.209] on 2006/04/07 03:25:12
I think I've found the culprit; the remove_skip utility trashes this bsp, probably because it's so big. This causes subsequent tools/engines to fail. More info in email.
A Small Idea About My Map
#4932 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2006/04/07 06:42:58
just a thought
how would it look if i made the weapons and pickup markers a litle higher just above the ground and such the smallest i could make them?
and also make them look abit more alike in general not based on the ground that they are in
.hack//crash
#4933 posted by negke [82.83.57.6] on 2006/04/07 08:13:37
for some reason quake crashes when the player touches a specific info_notnull trigger, while the other notnulls work fine.
what does this error message mean:
http://www.negative.net.tc/quake00... ?
Aguire
#4934 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/07 08:29:19
sorry for tbhe drunk email and also drunkness evident in this post. I will compile the map sans remove skip, but do you think that some kind of remove skip functionality could be implemented into your tools in the future? It would be reallt great if you could add that. xxx ;)
Neg!ke>
#4935 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/04/07 08:57:42
The function you are trying to call with the notnull tries to precache a sound, but this is only allowed in the entity spawn functions that are called when the level starts.
Only functions that don't contain any calls to any of the precache functions can be used by the notnulls.
R_speeds
#4936 posted by Spirit [217.248.163.20] on 2006/04/07 09:05:15
I'm on a shitty connection and too lazy to search... What r_speeds would you consider ok for a new map? About 800-900 seems to be nice to me (yes, I just read nico's posts about the "new huge maps"). Yes, I finally decided to map and No, it's a small and not outdoor level. :)
...
#4937 posted by negke [82.83.53.40] on 2006/04/07 11:08:47
thanks.
again, i was too hasty posting that without proper searching/thinking.
it was indeed a sounds field i forgot to remove (even though on a different notnull).
Remove Skip...
#4938 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/04/07 14:29:27
I would also like to see skip support implemented in qbsp. The current utility is fairly rough and doesn't really delete the polygons from the bsp file, only references to them. (I believe it simply reorders the marksurfaces list, and then shortens the marksurface count for each leaf so that the last few surfaces occur after the "last" marksurface.)
It's been a while since I looked at it, but I remember having to change the rendering in fitzquake .80 to fix the problem of skipped polygons being rendered in .75 :)
More...
#4939 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/04/07 14:30:15
The other advantage of course is that true surface removal would actually reduce lightmap usage, while the current method does not.
Well
#4940 posted by Kell [80.192.82.64] on 2006/04/07 15:45:29
if it is implemented better, should it also be renamed caulk, since that's what it's called in the Q3 engine, and skip is something else...?
¬_¬
Remove_skip
#4941 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/04/07 19:01:07
Metl's explanation is right and yes, the tool is very rough. It would be nice to redo the util properly (and call it caulk this time), but I don't think I'm going to find time to do it anytime soon.
Probably A Dumb Question:
#4942 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/08 11:20:12
it's illegal to use q4 textures in d3?
Well, Of Course, But
#4943 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.243] on 2006/04/08 14:06:10
so are all the Daikatana\Hexen\Q3 textures we use for Quake maps.
It is illegal in the sense that someone, Raven in this case owns the copyright, but don't really expect your nation's equivelant of the FBI to come breaking down your door.
I mean they could, if you take the warning screens on DVD's seriously. Traditionally this has been a matter entirely concerning civil law, but legislation on copyright law in the past few decades has steadily shifted these matters towards the criminal law.
For a new game like Quake 4, someone may take notice; the worst you should expect though is for a lawyer to get his paralegal to right you up a cease and desist order.
Yeah,
#4944 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/08 15:24:47
i was almost certain it was like that. :P i was just hoping i wouldn't have to start making textures T_T
thanks :P
If I Was Going For The Q4 Look
#4945 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.129] on 2006/04/08 16:20:30
and I wanted to avoid making some from scratch, I would consider using Sock's Tech series, maybe the Evil Lair Q2-style, and add Normal maps and Luma to those textures using the Gimp.
Actually
#4946 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/08 21:40:13
it was just a few of the really nice rusty trims from the levels with that fat sitting thing that punches you, and the bloody/gibbagie floor textures where all the zombies are.
the hell textures for d3 are seriously lacking in staple textures, like a nice 64x64 tile texture, any type of light fixtures, and the only really good wall textures are those big and small brick textures. plus the trims are limited to ones that are 32 high.
atm, i'm working on filling in those gaps, but i'm not the greatest at texture making, and not that mine suck outright, but they just don't match the same quality of the original d3 ones. :(
OOoopppss
#4947 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/04/09 00:54:17
So I broke the law using Daikatana textures in my 2 latest maps .... Wow, I was not aware of that... But as our maps are not designed for commercial use, but only for fun, I guess they cannot do anything....
OTOH, I would like to extract HL2/Doom3 textures and see if it is possible to convert them for Quake. Is there anybody who already attempted to do that ? And is there any methdology advice I need to know ?
Textures
#4948 posted by Kinn [86.141.142.140] on 2006/04/09 03:05:15
JPL et al - Generally, using assets from other games is always illegal.
But - from experience it seems that ripping textures from old games for use in Quake (e.g. Hexen2, Dkt, Q3, Rune etc. etc.) is "ok" only because no-one seems to care - technically it's still illegal.
On the other hand, I think it's safe to say that ripping textures from modern games (HL2, D3, Q4) is likely to land you in a world of hurt.
My Thoughts On Texture Stealing
#4949 posted by than [222.149.101.205] on 2006/04/09 07:39:29
I think the reason nobody seems to care is that nobody has noticed, and if they have, the don't care because the original Quake is not a real competitor to any of these games.
id has complained about texture theft once to my knowledge, and it was when they were used blatantly in an Unreal Tournament (Q3's number one competitor at the time) map.
I don't think you are likely to be bothered by any lawyers if you release (for example) a Quake map with Quake 4 textures scaled down to 128x128, but there's always the chance, and is it worth the trouble to convert them with such an abundance of more suitable textures from older games already available and converted?
#4950 posted by negke [82.82.189.86] on 2006/04/09 08:16:48
i don't see why id should have a problem with it, since they are even encouraging modifiability. besides, using quake4 textures in a quake1 map should be even less an issue, since both are id games, and the textures stay within one series, too. also, custom maps are distributed in a non-commercial way (and credited), so what's the deal?
Neg!ke
#4951 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/04/09 11:57:29
Quake 1 and Quake 4 have different publishers/distributors. id Software may not even have much of a say. Or if they do, they may find out about it too late. And if they try to stop the publisher, that may set a precedent, and thus they may have to allow everyone to use the textures, etc.
Kind of a situation it's better to avoid in the first place, especially if you might use that map in a portfolio while searching for a job. Do you really want to showcase pirated material as a representative work of art?
#4952 posted by bambuz [213.169.28.23] on 2006/04/09 12:22:21
wasn't Daikatana somehow given away to the world or something, for whatever use seen fit. Don't remember...
...and Regardless Of Law Issues ?
#4953 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/04/09 12:44:00
... what would be the good method to extract textures from games like Doom3, HL2, etc.., and then export them into Quake format... avoiding fullbright issues ?
PS: I discovered this afternoon that DKT2 texture set has a lot of fullbright pixels to remove in order to look cool ingame... and so a huge amount of work is already waiting for me at this time... :( ... so Doom3 and HL2 texturs will have to wait unfortunately...
PK4 FILES
#4954 posted by HeadThump [65.140.56.189] on 2006/04/09 13:05:48
Which hold the texture files in Doom3 are just .zip files renamed. There is no special protection there, like say splitting the separate
files in to two seperate coded parts that are rebuilt during execution. I have been told that is how the Myst copy protection works.
If . . .
#4955 posted by HeadThump [65.140.56.189] on 2006/04/09 13:12:44
Id used a protection scheme like that, imagine, Marcher Fortress would have had to have been made
with textures rebuilt on snapshots. Kind of like taking a camera into the movies to make bootlegs.
#4956 posted by Kell [82.41.8.232] on 2006/04/09 13:52:25
Marcher Fortress would have had to have been made with textures rebuilt on snapshots
Or even *gasp* textures made from scratch!!!
Well...
#4957 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/09 14:00:19
in all fairness, not everyone is gifted at textures, as i'm learning myself... lol XD
as for extracting textures used in d3/q4... well, that could be more complex than other games, simply because they use more than just diffuse maps with small effects. for the most part, the diffuse maps alone are useless as they look shit without proper lighting with their respective bump maps.
you'd need to find a way to load up the diffuse maps and apply the bump maps to them, and then cast some light on them to get the shadows to show up and then save the result as a new texture file... a lot of work for poor results if you ask me, since those new textures will *still* be limited by the q1 palette, unless you go the external tga route. (external tgas can yield awesome results though... ne_marb looked wicked with the vivid green doom textures :)
Doom3 Textures...
#4958 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/04/09 14:19:57
I've just extracted the .pak4 files... and there's not only the textures, but also the skyboxes (i.e Hell and Mars outside... ) and there are awesome..
And concerning textures, there are a lot of interesting stuffs.. but it is a serious amount of work: all textures are .tga files, and there are 500 MBytes for all the stuff (i.e skyboxes + textures..) Hey guys ! I feel suddenly alone in front of the task... and so I would need some help ;P
Anyway, I will open all these files, and see what would be cool to keep... cause after a quick fly, not all can be used in a wad file...
And concerning HL2 textures.. I need to extract the textures from the bsp files... and this is another story...
In anyway, thanks for the tips ;P
JPL
#4959 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.38] on 2006/04/09 16:06:01
Email me if you need help to automate pic conversions.
Lol,
#4960 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.102] on 2006/04/09 18:45:21
Good one, Kell.
AguirRe
#4961 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/04/10 00:01:24
Thanks a lot, I keep it in mind.
And now I still have to check all the tga files, to see what can be used or not. As I saw there are generally one "basis" texture, and 3 or 4 derivated from it (i.e a darker, a "UV photo" like, etc..) I guess these additional tga files are used for 3D/lights rendering ingame (I guess necros explained it better tha me in post #4957), and only basis textures would be usefull in Quake. But the task is not so simple: there is 500MB of textures, and each one is around 20kB. If I consider only around 1 on 3 will be used (according to what I said above), it's around 8330 textures to create... OMG ! So I will have to split all the stuff into separate wads... wow...
Anyway, after the "preliminary" selection, I will come back to you ;P
Hmmm
#4962 posted by Bal [84.14.13.212] on 2006/04/10 01:25:43
I think D3 (and Q4 I guess) textures really look too plain and boring without their normal maps and proper ingame lighting, I can't imagine them looking like much in a game like Quake...
JPL:
#4963 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/04/10 01:36:09
The diffuse map (what you call a "basis" texture) alone is extremely flat and plain looking compared to what you see in quake4, and isn't really suitable as a standalone texture.
Ideally you'd use the normal map and diffusemap together to render out a texture with the sort of baked-in highlights and shadows that are used for quake textures. This could be done as a batch process if such a utility existed either alone, or as part of photoshop or maya or something.
Bal / Metlslime
#4964 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/04/10 02:42:50
Well, I will make some tries before starting a full automatic process of conversion. If the textures will not look good, I will simply stop the "process".... I can easily live without Doom3 textures in Quake ! :P
However, I think it could be possible to convert at least some of them (i.e rocks, stones, etc.. that are used in Hell/Cavern level..) ... and also reduce the initial size to something more suitable for Quake... I will see this in time..
Anyway, thanks for the infos.. ;)
Sprites And Models
#4965 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/11 13:56:28
I am looking at some spites in Quake.
I realise that sprites are 2D and that walking 'around' them shows the same 2D image, as opposed to a model which can show different sides.
But what are the merits of using sprites instead of models? Would it just be coding and modelling versus drawing? Are there performance considerations?
Yeah
#4966 posted by bambuz [213.169.5.65] on 2006/04/11 14:09:01
Think about the globe - it's spherical so it would take lots of polys - it was also quick to throw it in? Prolly doom leftovers partly tho. Explosions and particles are sprites btw.
Sprites V Models
#4967 posted by Kell [82.41.8.232] on 2006/04/11 15:16:14
sprites are ( unless you're making lots of really big sprites ) easier on the rendering. They're also easier to make, and not subject to the vagaries of lighting that Q1 models are.
Even Q3 uses sprites for various different visual features. Features that could be done with models and skins but simply don't need to be, cause they work fine as sprites.
Sprites:
#4968 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/11 16:32:08
aren't lit, so they are fullbright everywhere. this can be good, but could also be bad. (explosions = yay, trees/shrubs = aww :( )
also, there are a few different ways to have sprites too, you can have them non-aligned (look the same from any angle), vertically aligned (look the same from horizontal angles, but looking down or up at it will show it's 2dness and a few other alignement options which i'm not quite sure what they do.
New Sprite Tool
#4969 posted by Preach [86.129.231.53] on 2006/04/11 17:13:10
While we're on the topic, FrikaC has released a new tool for editing sprites, so you don't have to use the potentially dangerous AdQuedit. Get the beta from http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtop...
Already given the program a bit of a try, finishing off a mod I tried to make a few months back without success. It probably earns the distinction of being the smallest mod in existence, at only 17k. And they called it Noir Quake ; - )
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
It's just a bit of fun since people mentioned it in a discussion thread. But it might have some merit for interesting future maps, altering the palette in such a way that the existing monster skins aren't broken(changed maybe, but still look alright). Perhaps the Schindler's list effect of black and white with just one colour could work well...
Preach
#4970 posted by Kell [82.41.8.232] on 2006/04/12 01:01:01
nice
Texture Legalness V2
#4971 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/12 18:01:02
what about modifying D3's textures for a map in d3? ie: change the diffuse map, but keep the other maps the same, for example.
are you allowed to modify game ressources if they are for the same game?
There Is A Legal Concept
#4972 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.235] on 2006/04/12 19:20:53
called 'fair use', i.e. taping a broadcast for later viewing, loop samples of music, etc, and remixing elements in a game for the purpose of modding would certainly be an example of that.
You are on pretty safe grounds there, even though, EULA's typically have non modification clauses attached. If they were taken verbatim, there would not be any mods at all.
OMG...
#4973 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/04/12 21:57:47
Preach, that quake noir thingy is brilliant. I've so wanted to play quake in B&W for soooo long. Skyboxes don't get modified, so one has to call a bogus sky and revert to default but who cares.
For a awesome piece of gothic horror movie action, run noir and load gmsp3... f**king brilliant!
Coda To The Noir
#4974 posted by Preach [86.136.47.240] on 2006/04/13 16:42:28
Hadn't thought about skyboxes, but it's a good point! Many new engine features will break this mod, including fancy particles, .lit files and tga textures. Don't try it in darkplaces! On the other end of the spectrum winquake should work perfectly, and gl if you set gl_flashblend to 0.
Gmsp3 is, I agree, very cool in noir, been a while since I've played it too. Another nice one is Adamantine Cruelty. One thing that became apparent while playing with the mod is how hard it is to distinguish red/yellow/green armour and the gold/silver keys. Sounds obvious now, I know...If someone wanted to do this for a serious map rather than a bit of fun, it might be worth doing something about making them look distinct.
One final trick though, since the only files that are changed are colormap.lmp and palette.lmp, you can almost always just add this mod on top of an existing mod, just by throwing the gfx folder into the mod's folder. So it's not just limited to vanilla quake maps.
Noir Quake
#4975 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/04/13 20:30:28
When I tried it, it looked more like nearly-black-and-white-but-with-so... Quake instead of Noir Quake. :/
Func_pwned
#4976 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/04/14 01:18:19
I Do Try, Honest.
#4977 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/14 04:37:41
It's not that I don't try, it's just that I'm useless at it.
Anyone know of a large flame sprite for use in Quake1? You know, large bonfire size one.
What About The Quake3 Flames?
#4978 posted by negke [82.82.184.196] on 2006/04/14 05:09:53
Neg!ke
#4979 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/14 07:30:24
I don't have Quake3 :-(
Flames
#4980 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/14 10:01:12
lots of nice, and smooth flames in duke3d.
Here:
#4981 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/14 10:41:53
try that out: http://www.planetquake.com/necros/...
What About...
#4982 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/04/14 11:36:47
the flames in marcher? or was it bastion? those were big and looked good.
Oh...
#4983 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/04/14 11:37:04
sprites, nevermind.
Necros
#4984 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/14 12:52:59
Good stuff, thanks necros.
Flames 2
#4985 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/14 14:15:01
there are a few other varieties, btw. i think at least 1 more, but it is thinner/smaller.
also: the size of the flame in d3dflame.spr has been modified so each from has a ^2 size, so it works with glquake without looking bad from resampling. if you find other flames, i'd advise resizing them like that too.
and make sure you have it so that it is aligned at the bottom of the frame, and not the top. one of the frames is 64x64 instead of 64x128, so if they are aligned from the top, the flame will jump around.
Noir Quake: Take Two
#4986 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/04/14 19:39:56
What's the inverse function of func_pwn? Does it return the input value of the original post?
Original post should have been: Nearly-black-and-white- but-with-some-yellow-and-green Quake.
Yeah, Odd Colours
#4987 posted by Preach [86.129.216.80] on 2006/04/15 04:44:09
I know where RPG is coming from, and I'll say it's partially intentional, but on close inspection it could do with some fixing as well. The idea was to make the palette by changing the hue of each colour while fixing the saturation and luminocity of each colour. But just doing that uniformly might end up merging colours together frequently, so I added a bit of noise to the hue, so it varied. That was the plan anyway, and I stick by it that much.
However, some of the variations were a bit extreme, there were a few rows that preserved their original colour too much, so I've now changed that. Another problem was that some of the darker entries were altered with...less care than the brighter ones. It's not very obvious in the palette editor, but if you have the brightness high enough in quake then you can notice these pixels. These have been fixed too, so there's a version with these changes at
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
I've also had a go at doing one where the palette is all one hue, and it doesn't look as bad as I expected. However, if you look carefully there are still visible colour differences, because the palette is stored as RGB not HSL. Anyway, you can also try that out and see if you prefer it:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
So I Was Mapping Along In D3, Singing A Lively Tune...
#4988 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/17 23:27:34
i go to place a monster (the first entity i've placed since i started the map) and as soon as i deselect it, it disappears...
i go to check in game, and the guy is indeed still there, but he doesn't appear in the map editor in any of the views, 3d preview or 3d realtime preview...
func_s appear still, and toggling the 'show entities' will make the func_s disappear, but doesn't seem to make the other entities like monsters, items and mapobjects appear at all...
i went to check in other maps i've done with entities in them, and in those maps too, monsters, items and mapobjects don't appear at all...
to make matters even wierder, in OTHER maps BESIDES the current one i'm working on, if i toggle 'show entities', func_s and lights disappear, but monsters, items and mapobjects appear! and toggling 'show entities' again, will reverse the effect!! BUT, in the current map, toggling 'show entities' does nothing except make func_s and lights disappear and reappear... o.0
anyone working on d3 maps ever encounter this? did i just hit some button or something--? because this is just wierd... and a little annoying. :P
Just A Guess....
#4989 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/04/17 23:52:03
does he reappear if you turn off realtime lighting preview?
Necros
#4990 posted by Friction [213.243.160.111] on 2006/04/18 04:54:57
Using D3Editor? Toggle CTRL+M (hide / unhide models)
If That Doesn't Fix It, Rename Editor.cfg
#4991 posted by BlackDog [58.7.231.195] on 2006/04/18 07:29:01
Which will kill your settings, but you should see models again. Until the next time they disappear.
Don't ask me what's going on there, I have no idea.
Yay!
#4992 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/04/18 09:24:26
it was ctrl+m ^_^ thanks, friction. :)
Preach
#4993 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/04/18 10:09:04
That seems to be about the same as before. Turning the brightness all the way up made it more like shades of gray, but of course that made everything really bright and not very noir like.
Oh, Sepia
#4994 posted by Preach [86.136.47.127] on 2006/04/18 15:05:38
Yeah, the sepia colour is intentional, to make it look like old film rather than strict black and white. Proper black and white would be easy to achieve, and wouldn't have the problems of slight dithering/off colour pixels. You'd just have to desaturate all the entries in the palette.
Removing Fullbright Pixels From Textures - Easy Solution
#4995 posted by Ankh [83.17.205.242] on 2006/04/23 14:10:28
With some luck I have found an easy solution today. I can't remember to ever see it in this thread so I want to share. The "Remove Brites" functionality in TexMex is buggy and it doesn't work even if you uncheck the "Use Full Brites" option in the preferences/workspace tab. But you still can remove fullbright pixels in TexMex easily. Here is what I did. I unchecked the "Use Full Brites" option, opened the wad file with fullbright pixels, opened a new wad, copied all textures to the new wad. That's all. Fullbright pixels are gone :). I hope I could help anyone. I had many many problems with this issue and couldn't find any easy solution for a long time.
TexMex
#4996 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.183] on 2006/04/23 15:01:17
does have a lot of issues, but it's pretty easy to work with for the things it actually can do.
I just recently managed to figure out why TexMex often seem to have problems loading the conchars texture in gfx.wad. Ugh, what a mess ... this also explained why several modern engines (e.g. DP) have problems playing the OUM pak.
Ankh
#4997 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/04/23 23:03:50
As all the textures in a set are not polluted by "fullbrites", I guess correcting fullbrite pixels in a texture can be done as describe below:
- Load the wad file in TexMex
- Select the polluted texture
- Use remove fullbrites command (fullbrights appear then as red-purple pixels)
- Export it to a bmp file
- Remove it from the wad
- Open the exported texture with an image editor, and change the fullbright pixels in whatever color you want (normal pixels is prefered !)
- Import the corrected texture in the wad
- Save the stuff and validate the changes by a test in-game
I've done this many times, and even if it seems very long, it works fine.. and you really manage what happened...
Nevertheless, thanks a lot for your tips, it might help for massive fullbrites removing ;)
JPL
#4998 posted by Ankh [212.2.99.85] on 2006/04/23 23:48:49
Try it out my way. It takes 5s to remove all fullbrights. You can also copy affected textures only to new wad but it will take more time since you have to look up the old wad for them. The whole export and edit part is skipped.
Ankh
#4999 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/04/24 00:11:40
I beleive you man, don't worry...
I started a map (1 month ago, in paralell with other tasks..) using DKT2 texture sets, and most of them are white, so here I will need massive conversion... So I guess I will try first your method... :)
Max Verts
#5000 posted by Mike Woodham [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/24 14:38:27
I've searched Mapping Help (via the Google sitecelephais.net-board idea) but can't find the answer:
what are the max verts allowed on a static (no animation) model?
I've probably asked this before but as I keep reminding myself, time dulls the... the... er... um... hazelnuts, Bob.
Vert Count
#5001 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/04/24 15:41:03
1000 to be compatible with every engine. Strangely enough it was originally 2000 in dosquake/winquake, but glquake only support 1000 - maybe back in the early days of 3d cards 2000 a model was considered just too taxing. It's possible that the released source codes reverted back to 2000, but if you want to be compatible with everything that doesn't help.
In Released GLQuake
#5002 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.128] on 2006/04/24 16:55:10
it's 1024 to be exact. But I think pretty many engines have raised that limit to at least 2000 (same as WinQuake); Fitz, DP, my engines, Joe, Tomaz ...
Shouldn't be a big problem.
Too Many Verts
#5003 posted by Mike er... [86.136.82.239] on 2006/04/24 22:40:15
Ah, so 3656 verts might be the problem then! Ooops.
Ankh Re: Fullbrights
#5004 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/04/27 21:56:56
Very helpful ;)
Well Maybe It Was Asked Before
#5005 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/04/30 03:57:36
Anyone knows if it is possible to find some custom medieval/gothic/horror textures for doom3?
Look For Lukin's "Ruiner"
#5006 posted by BlackDog [220.235.143.127] on 2006/04/30 12:06:46
A q4 map which uses versions of Undulation's Gnosis texture set, with normal and spec maps added. Other than that, there's nothing other than bits and peices out there that I know of.
Speeding Up The Mapping Process
#5007 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/05/02 03:57:38
I have recently started building a new map. It is always a pleasure for me to work on a map that is at its beginning. The compile time takes few second only and everything is simple and fast. I would like to know how you deal with your map as it grows bigger:
1. Do you split it in parts and work on them separately? I'm always afraid of exceeding the engine limits when doing so. The problem will get visible only after joining all parts together and will be very hard to correct then.
2. How often do you run fullvis on your maps while building them? I do it from time to time to check if I don't get into problems with performance and r_speeds. Is there any other way to check against those problems? I have a slow computer and vis (even fastvis) always takes some serious part of the whole time I spend on a map.
3. What about lightning? Do you prefer doing the lights on the way as you proceed with the map? Or is it wiser to implement lightning after the whole brushwork is done and save the time for running light.exe when doing brushwork?
4. What about using prefabs and copy/paste. I guess this shouldn't be overused.
5. What else can be done? There must be many things I didn't think of right now. Certainly a good computer, big monitor and the right editor help a lot. (I'm still stuck with Hammer since Radiant doesn't work on my laptop).
Hl2 Editor
#5008 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/05/02 07:17:04
what is the version of hammer that supports hl2?
any link?
You Can Only Get It Via Steam AFAIK
#5009 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/05/02 07:54:12
Install the HL2 SDK via Steam and it should appear in a magic folder in a magic kingdom.
Ankh:
#5010 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/05/02 12:44:35
My main trick is to create giant black brushes that enclose the parts of the map i'm not working on. This doesn't save on QBSP time (all brushes still get processed) but it does save on light and vis time (fewer lightmaps, fewer visportals.)
Metl
#5011 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.235] on 2006/05/02 14:03:51
Enclosing map parts with big solid cubes saves a lot of qbsp time actually. Thanks to Tyrann's logic all brushes inside the cubes are quickly removed already in the CSGFaces stage.
Aguirre:
#5012 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/05/02 15:21:25
cool, good to know.
#5013 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/05/03 03:21:20
i compiler when i go to bed or when i go to bath room, eat, go to beatch e.t.c.
Yup
#5014 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/03 05:24:38
I'm with Trinca there. Just use bsp only when the map gets too big, and vis/light/both when you have a break from your computer.
If you don't have one of those ultra noisy graphics cards that will keep you up all night*, you can even do it when you go to bed, and wake up to a freshly baked level every morning.
*they usually aren't noisy if you aren't playing an intensive game.
#5015 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/03 08:50:54
you can even do it when you go to bed, and wake up 2 weeks later to a freshly baked level every morning.
fixed
Ankh's Post #4995
#5016 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/05/03 12:59:22
Err... I tried your method on DKT2 texture set... and unfortunately it didn't work... Either I missed something on your explanations, or TexMex v3.4 is not suitable for your method..
Any idea ? I need help desperately.. :(
2 Weeks?
#5017 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/03 20:47:29
What pc are you compiling with? I know it runs doom 3, so it can't be that bad. How come it takes so long?
My 10k brush map takes 40 minutes to do everything full.
Mind you, it's not a big open level, and I did make a void speedmap that took ages once.
O_O
#5018 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/03 21:55:12
including vis? dear lord, that's awesome :o
man, my vising takes forever, even with my current machine (mind you, the cpu isn't anything to scream about these days, just an amd 2500+) so likely that's slowing down compile times a lot.
the nice thing is that i usually don't need to vis the maps for me to test them. :P i just use aguire's engine and chug along at a decent 40fps with 13k+ wpoly :P but that doesn't help when it comes to working out vis and blocking.
also, it makes prepping a map for final release a right pain, esp. when you notice some minor structural defect the minute you load up the freshly fullvised map >_<
Oh
#5019 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/05/04 03:22:04
My 10k brush map
will it be custom engine only
Re: Ankh's Post #4995
#5020 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/05/04 04:15:09
JPL I have sent you an email.
Pulsar
#5021 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/04 04:27:56
it's on the brink at the moment. I still have more to add before I start optimising, but it's looking likely to be custom engine only. The ones I know will support it are currently limited to Aguire and Tyrann's engines. I want it to run on Fitzquake (currently it exceeds some limits, but still runs ok) because I prefer fitz lighting, and it supports widescreen, but it's going to be a tight squeeze.
Ankh
#5022 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/05/04 05:00:16
I've just seen it. I will reply this evening (I'm at office right now: so job means no Quake :( ... )
Error
#5023 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/05/10 15:23:27
a new version of my most frequent quake error:
SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set
I already had the similar error with that map but I continued to place monsters (using agirre's engine) waiting for corpse removal to be employed. But this error is different, the previous one was about buffer size.
See My ToolTips
#5024 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.174] on 2006/05/10 15:46:05
This is typically caused by protocol overflow (same as packet overflows but on a different level). You had a similar issue in Menkalinan when reloading a saved game on Hard. Too much stuff in the map ...
AguirRe
#5025 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/05/10 16:12:23
Will corpse removal code help to solve it?
I Think It Has To Do With
#5026 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/10 17:01:12
how much stuff is in the map initially, at loading time... so no, it probably won't.
isn't it like too many func_s and triggers and such? or is that a different error?
Corpse Removal
#5027 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.156] on 2006/05/10 17:30:59
only helps in the end of the map, so it depends on when you get that error. Like necros says, it usually appears at map loading time or reloading a saved game.
At that time, the server tries to tell the client too much at one time and various buffers overflow, usually the signon buffer.
Clever progs like delayed spawning might help if it's mainly monsters that contribute to the overflow. You also often have moving stuff and I'd assume that that will also make things worse.
It's the dynamic status at startup that usually kills the protocol. If you use my engine and check the console at startup, you might see a warning if the signon buffer exceeds normal size. Make sure to always use developer 1.
Worldcraft 1.5b (Forge)
#5028 posted by Ler R. Ster [209.89.217.184] on 2006/05/17 18:38:47
Is there any complete tuitoral out there, on how to start a map from scratch?
let me know via email: hey_its_ler@yahoo.com
or here.... but, email is prob most likely.
K~ByE
...
#5029 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/17 20:50:23
If I have time I will be doing a complete tutorial for QExpo, but there should be tons of guides.
Try searching for the worldcraft site on planetquake (I heard it recently went down though) as there were some guides there. I think Worldcraft's very own help files include some basic mapping guides though. It should at least tell you how to build two box rooms, connect them and compile the map. Aside from that, you could always try asking for help with specific problems here or on #terrafusion on Quakenet.
Wc 1.6
#5030 posted by bambuz [193.167.3.53] on 2006/05/18 07:12:36
That's the one you need.
Worldcraft Tutorials
#5031 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.45] on 2006/05/18 08:21:47
Try this: http://web.archive.org/web/2005021...
Than
#5032 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/05/18 12:33:25
That's an awesome idea :) There aren't many new tutorials these days.
Lolleyballz...
#5033 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/05/18 18:27:45
Speak to me...!
Well
#5034 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/18 21:24:01
scarecrow's idea for QExpo is to reinvigorate the scene, so we need to make it easy for new people to get involved.
I can't say for sure if I will get anything done, but I will try.
Distrans
#5035 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/05/19 07:30:07
Sorry man, I forget to check that account! Reply sent.
#5036 posted by Than [202.76.133.174] on 2006/05/19 19:39:31
one thing I would personally like to see...
Would be an extension of CZG's tutorial - explaining a simple way to make more complex clean curves (aka more than 2 sides).
Of course that's a pretty small corner of a pretty big picture, huh?
Texture Editing Question
#5037 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/05/20 05:51:37
How would one go about applying some realistic blood smears/splatters on some quake1 textures? In either paintshop9 or photoshop? Or are there some blood images with alpha channels I can use for my own purposes somewhere?
Ray
#5038 posted by Bal [81.249.71.188] on 2006/05/20 08:02:49
I know there are some brush collections findable online with various blood spatters etc, with a bit of tweaking it could look ok.
Otherwise... you could steal all the blood images from doom3 (they have alpha channels) and use those... =)
Quake Brush Models? Health Boxes, Etc.
#5039 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/05/20 11:03:01
Does anyone know either how to make Quake brush models (ammo boxes, health boxes) or an editor that is capable of making them?
I've Googled numerous different ways, to no avail.
Ammo boxes and such in Quake are in a special bsp format b_bh100.bsp, unlike other models like monsters, weapons, etc.
I'd like to make a couple, but cannot find the information.
It's Easier Than You Think....
#5040 posted by metlslime [71.202.21.157] on 2006/05/20 11:29:52
i'm pretty sure you just make a one-brush box with a specific corner on the origin (bottom south west corner I think) and a couple of lights to make sure all of the faces have some light on them. Then qbsp and light it, and you should be good.
Yep
#5041 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/20 12:23:22
that's exactly what you do. you can make more complex models than square boxes too. you could even just use regular .mdl files, afaik.
any one know why id chose to make ammo boxes bsp files instead of mdls?
No Way!
#5042 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/05/20 15:18:18
Thanks Metlslime, Necros!
I was banging my head over this!
#5043 posted by Kell [82.41.8.232] on 2006/05/20 18:03:26
any one know why id chose to make ammo boxes bsp files instead of mdls?
They're easier to 'skin', 'cause it's just ordinary textures slapped on each side; skinning a cube-shaped .mdl would result in only 2 faces being textured properly.
Why not use a .mdl of something not-cube-shaped?
Because of the lighting I suspect.
Modelling Terrain
#5044 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2006/05/20 18:07:46
I can use the tri/quad-souping method for creating terrain, but for large scale things this is a true chore. Can anyone point me to some good tutorials on creating terrain for q3 engine (ET) with 3d studio max or a similar tool?
Ah Yes
#5045 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/20 18:30:16
that makes complete sense. and yeah, bsp models aren't lit beyond their original lighting.
Quakebits
#5046 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.148] on 2006/05/20 18:31:01
http://www.quake3bits.com/index.ph...
I'm thinking of the Quake3 tutorial for Blender, but You'll find a lot of useful info there.
Jago
#5047 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/05/21 04:17:01
Try Nemesis' terrain generator. It is a fucking good tool (I used it for CDA as example).
Check it out at http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/
Terrain In Quake 3 Engine
#5048 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2006/05/27 11:24:10
I've been wondering about this:
In many terrain maps I am seeing in Q3-engine games (read: ET), there are some parts of the terrain that logic tells me has been carved up to insert a building or a tunnel or whatever. I am wondering how this is done?
My understanding is that if you use heightmap-based terrain and start carving it up, you are bound to get BSP issues whilst iirc carving up terrain which is done as a mesh is flat out impossible.
What am I missing here?
Surely
#5049 posted by Kinn [217.42.5.199] on 2006/05/28 03:37:30
you just remove the terrain brushes that are in the way of what you want to build, so you got a rectangular hole in your terrain, and then proceed to plug the gap with whatever you want to build in the normal fashion. Same principle applies to terrain meshery; make the mesh with holes in.
Dm3 Question
#5050 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/29 20:39:28
DM3. Do people prefer to play with translucent water or non-translucent water?
Than
#5051 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/05/30 00:30:28
translucent water for sure !
#5052 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/05/30 00:36:21
although i don't personally play, i'd think that non-translucent water for fairness would be in order.
Hardcore Players? Bambuz?
#5053 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/30 01:24:56
Do any of the hardcore players know? I'd prefer to have trans water for single player, but maybe I can save that for the Quoth version. Do competetive players still run Quake on p2s and shit like that? do r_speeds matter? The framerate is always maxed out on my machine - even with novis on, and that's at 1920*1600 in fitz with all the second passes and stuff for enhanced lighting (overbrights and fullbrites).
Maybe the competition mods have a server command to force wateralpha to a certain value? Anyone know?
More Questions (for Players As Much As Mappers)
#5054 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/30 01:25:45
Do any of the hardcore players here know? I'd prefer to have trans water for single player, but maybe I can save that for the Quoth version. Do competetive players still run Quake on p2s and shit like that? do r_speeds matter? The framerate is always maxed out on my machine - even with novis on, and that's at 1920*1600 in fitz with all the second passes and stuff for enhanced lighting (overbrights and fullbrites).
Maybe the competition mods have a server command to force wateralpha to a certain value? Anyone know?
FUCK YOU, OPERA/FUNC/WHATEVER!
#5055 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/30 01:26:43
I fucking refreshed that shit after nothing seemed to happen before, and there was no post. Now there are three! God damn it!
Than
#5056 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.15] on 2006/05/30 05:31:20
r_speeds:
It would be useful if it worked in software fuhquake, you could try it (also pay attention to mipmaps if the textures are custom). Jago spent some time making enraged playable in sw with no greyflash. (And then the stupid qw people just ignored the map anyway! Sigh.)
Some percentage (I'd say 2%?) of people still play with 320x200 sw, more so at the top skills.
Water:
Transparent water has traditionally been off. I don't really know or remember all the settings on the server and in the maps and in the client that enable what combinations to be used, but there's a faint chance the way you do the map doesn't matter since it can be circumvented in the server sw. But I don't know, probably not, all that visibility and all.
I remember back in the day you could cheat in team fortress by watervising the map (in sw that was just taking the surface tex off completely) and you saw the people underwater. :) And then the mapcheck was introduced to circumvent that.
sw use:
If you can by some way view the obsolete url of IBC extended info
http://ibc.quakeworld.nu/extended....
you could see what percentage of people used sw and which gl (in 2004).
(google cache of the non-extended info here:
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cach...
Yeah Well...
#5057 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/30 06:54:07
It's just a dm3 remake for SP mainly, but I want to keep the classic DM layout more or less intact in case people do get sick of Romero's texturing.
Mind you, my rebuild isn't faithful in terms of tricks you can do or exact dimensions, so I doubt anyone who has bothered to play DM3 for 10 years will be interested. I'm still going to release a regular Quake version and a Quoth enhanced version (using quoth base enemies, trans water and that has a dm layout more optimised for ffa) anyway.
There are a couple of shots here: http://than.leveldesign.org
Than / Bambuz
#5058 posted by Jago [85.76.178.187] on 2006/05/30 14:09:46
Than: I don't think I know of any QW players that play with transparent water turned on. It doesn't matter really. If you play QW and use it, the effect will be limited to you only seeing the underwater brushes, but no players/items/etc which are under water because the servers are set up to even out the playing field, to eliminate any possible gameplay advantage a user of transparent water could gain.
Bambuz: yeah well, I worked quite a bit to reduce the greyflash effect in software and did nearly eliminate it. Once I realised I couldn't complete "fix" it without removing A LOT of details I would rather not remove, I discovered the wonders of r_maxedges "10000" and r_maxsurfs "10000" and put a note regarding these variable into the readme. Problem solved.
Than: Also yeah, you can honestly forget about getting the QW population to actually play your map, as frustrating and sad as that may sound.
Than Jago
#5059 posted by bambuz [82.181.177.128] on 2006/05/31 04:24:39
But if the map on the server is watervised, it doesn't know to not send the info from water, no?
All the visible leafs and so on?
Have to test this sometime.
Than: shots look good and inspiring. One thing for dm is there shouldn't be too many protrudings to get caught on (but no need to resort to q3 flatness!). And clipping doesn't help that much, it's uncomfortable when the visual info conflicts with the tactile or sth. Of course some is ok.
Btw, it's very different to dm3 if you can't jump from ring to quad etc at that central megahealth area. :) Dm3 probably overall considered the best 4on4 map.
If you really wanna stretch it, you could watch a demo from quakeworld.nu, they play dm3 among other maps in the NQR finals. There's even commentary mp3 so you can understand what's going on. It's awesome gaming and very tight competition, teams battling for ra control and going for the quad or the pent. Some extreme moves some extreme fuckups. :)
Bam
#5060 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/05/31 04:57:44
yeah, that area is one that has changed quite a lot...
The layout is more or less the same, but because I changed the heights a little, and added a protruding lift shaft, it is now impossible to jump across. There are entrances at either side to compensate (and for SP flow), but it completely changes the risk factor of coming from the RA,SNG side to the decent side. The quad is now located in between the sides anyway. It's quite different I guess.
Anyway, it's not intended to replace the original map, it is a fairly faithful reproduction of the layout for DM second, and a decent (hopefully) SP map foremost. For this reason, I won't be changing large details like the pillars on the basefront in the shots at all.
It would be nice if the pro players gave it a try anyway (and then bitch about it being not as good or not the same as the original ;)
The sng area is very different architecturally (but using the same layout).
Would you be interested in testing (sp mainly), Bam? It'll probably be ready in a week or so depending on my load at work (crunch time!)
Yeah Than
#5061 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.16] on 2006/06/01 04:18:07
Don't worry too much, the players are unpleasant anyway. :/
There were some modifications of maps, like e2m2tdm which added one lift, changing the connectivity a lot (it's a cross-shaped map, and this lift connected two "ends"), and people still thought it wasn't necessarily that much worse than the originals, they were played in a league administered by link.
So yeah you can change architechture.
I'm sorry but I can't try out quake stuff much nowadays, I've moved temporarily (until july) and don't want to install quake to the computer at the new place. If it's easy for you, you can send it and I might check it out if I have time when I visit my regular home. :)
meizah at gmail.
Looking For A Fast Way To Kill Quake Monsters
#5062 posted by Ankh [83.15.8.58] on 2006/06/03 01:18:53
I need a fast way to kill big amount of quake monsters but I can't use the killtarget -> targetname method. The killed monsters won't be visible by the player. The monsters just need to be removed from the map at a certain time and place. I'm close to packet overflow also.
Any ideas?
Huh
#5063 posted by neg!ke [82.82.160.251] on 2006/06/03 02:14:57
trigger_hurt, func_door crusher, collective telefrag?
killtarget removes them from the map, but doesn't change the monster count.
Neg!ke
#5064 posted by Ankh [83.15.8.58] on 2006/06/03 02:33:39
thanks! I was counting on you :)
trigger_hurt will do
Marksurfaces
#5065 posted by Mike Woodham [81.159.185.196] on 2006/06/04 08:13:54
So, I don't add or remove any brushes. I add 20 or so lights, and about 10 monsters. The marksurfaces reduce from 31688 to 31250.
So, shall I just add another 100 monsters and 100 lights and expect the marksurfaces to drop below 31000? Cause then I can add some more brushes and improve the trim. But honestly, what's it all about?
Mike....
#5066 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/06/04 08:52:35
... really... nobody knows....
?
#5067 posted by Mike Woodham [81.159.185.196] on 2006/06/04 10:30:38
I just added a trigger_monsterjump and it reduced the marksurfaces by another 3!
Arrrrrrgh!
New Question/old Problem
#5068 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/04 13:06:13
Why does
http://notoriousray.leveldesign.or...
translate to
http://notoriousray.leveldesign.or...
worldcraft issue? fgd issue? engine or something?
#5069 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/06/04 13:17:25
isn't it that WC thing where ammo boxes and health boxes aren't correctly set up in the editor? they are set up to be centered on the origin, when in reality, they are oriented from one corner of the bbox or something...
i think it was czg who had a fix for that on his site
Well
#5070 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/04 14:11:44
I thought it might be that, but I'm using my pbrsp1.fgd, which I beleive (not 100% certain, it was a while ago) I based on czg's 'fixed' fgd. I don't think czg has it on his leveldesign.org page. czg?
Actually
#5071 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/04 14:23:39
Mine is based off of czg's. And czg's is available at http://czg.leveldesign.org/q/Quake...
Still dunno wtf with the items.
No Your FGD Is Correct
#5072 posted by czg [83.253.25.47] on 2006/06/04 14:25:40
I've usually found that if you place an ammo box right next to a wall or another ammo box, it will complain that it's in a solid, fuck off and die.
Though I've seen them close together in other maps I dunno how it is done. I usually end up placing the ammo 2 units away from anything.
Ray
#5073 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.210] on 2006/06/04 14:32:55
I think that could happen if you have an invalid angle key on the ammo/health boxes. I've seen before that having such a key can make those boxes appear partly inside solids or even disappear. Deleting that key fixes the problem.
Argh.
#5074 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/04 15:01:04
There is no 'angle' key. I even tried putting one in and they still do the same. Oh well, if czg couldn't hack it to work right, then I don't expect I will.
OK
#5075 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.89] on 2006/06/04 16:23:44
Then it's probably what czg said; sometimes items don't like to be too close to solids or other stuff (lost bonus item).
NotoriousRay
#5076 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/06/04 19:32:57
I recall having a similar issue. I use Radiant. While I've never had an issue with placing items next to each other, if they are next to a wall they will sometimes disappear as mentioned by czg et al. I always place items at least 8 units from the nearest vertical surface.
Alright
#5077 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/04 20:02:28
Then i guess its just a fact of life, then. I just thought that there was some way to get around it. Away from the walls, they go!
Item Rotation In Quake...
#5078 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/06/04 20:38:03
In Quake 2 you can rotate items just by setting the angle key, but in Quake, this doesn't work - everything just appears axially aligned. However, I know that it is possible to rotate item boxes because I've seen it done in several maps before - notably one of Neg!kes speedmaps that ends in an underwater tunnel with lots of boxes rotated at funny angles.
How is it done? From memory I thought it was done by giving the item an angles key with pitch yaw roll values.
Please tell me!
By the way, is the fact monsters won't shoot through transparent water a reason any of you sp mappers would consider not vising for transparent water? It's really lame when you can just hide 1 ft underwater and pick off all the monsters without them firing a single shot.
As for the item problem ray is experiencing - it sucks indeed. If you desparately want the boxes next to each other, perhaps you could try placing them staggered above each other so that they are not touching until Quake drops them to the floor. I've no idea if this works though ;)
On Items
#5079 posted by negke [82.83.56.180] on 2006/06/05 00:54:14
yes, items can be rotated either with "angle x" or "angles x y z". the latter was used in said speedmap. though rotation does not prevent them from dropping out if they are too close to a wall, and one has to experiment a bit with their location. it's their bounding boxes that matter here again (same with walkmonster in wall issues).
items can touch other items without problems, they can even be spawned within each other (same origins). they cannot touch monsters, however, and if you place them above the monster, they will drop on its head and stay floating in mid-air when the monster moves away.
than: that sucks a little, yeah. but then again it's not that much of a problem, i guess. opaque water should mainly be considered in terms of vis blocking or visual aspects.
Than
#5080 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/06/05 06:36:48
Yes, I would consider not using transparent water in that case. However, that would of course depend on the balance between how enhanced the visuals are and how much combat can take place in that spot.
Can't Colormap A Non Src_indexed Texture
#5081 posted by Ankh [83.15.8.58] on 2006/06/05 11:36:57
"TexMgr_ReloadImage: can't colormap a non src_indexed texture: lightmap02"
I get this notification (twice) in fitzquake when loading my map. The map loads and plays without problems. What is the meaning of this warning?
I also launched the map in Bengt's glquake and in joequake-gl and I don't get such error.
Ankh:
#5082 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/06/05 11:44:13
the error message is newly introduced in fitzquake 0.80. Would you mind uploading your bsp, or emailing to me, so that I can examine it?
I'm pretty sure it's a bug in fitzquake and not a bug in your map.
Metlslime
#5083 posted by Ankh [83.15.8.58] on 2006/06/05 12:04:36
I can't send you the bsp right now for some reasons. Maybe in few weeks.
Thanks for the info.
Items
#5084 posted by ijed [201.236.127.105] on 2006/06/06 11:05:29
running across the same problems ATM with item boxes; like in my last map I'm rotating them all randomly to give that more natural feel instead of a load of regimented nail packs sat in rows - it's bad enough that demons and hellknights helpfully leave bundles of shotgun shells lying around anway just in case a slipgater blunders into the place.
The only way I've found is to playtest and make a long list (ie. handwritten) of what's missing / intersecting with other stuff.
For now it's just 16WC units from anything else and testing in a dummy map before cop/paste into the final version when they have to be close together or near a wall.
Well
#5085 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.87.12] on 2006/06/06 12:53:37
In my case, since the map in question will have its own progs, I put some code in PlaceItem() in items.qc that, if the item has a certain xadjust or yadjust flag, it will set the x or y origin plus or minus 16 units. Just needs to be called after droptofloor() obviously. Doesn't appear to be a workaround for standard progs though. :(
Am I Dreaming...
#5086 posted by generic [71.1.12.17] on 2006/06/06 19:03:55
Or did I once have a texture set with a dinosaur fossil in it? Has anyone seen one?
Thx.
Generic
#5087 posted by R.P.G. [24.136.180.235] on 2006/06/06 20:21:36
Have you tried looking in Rogue? It seems like there are some archaeological textures in there.
R.P.G.
#5088 posted by generic [71.1.12.17] on 2006/06/07 04:13:08
Yep and nope :(
I was thinking it was in the Heretic or Hexen tex's, but no luck there either.
Has anyone seen a lost dinosaur fossil texture anywhere?
Yeah, It Was Like A Vertebrae
#5089 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.62] on 2006/06/07 12:40:09
in clay mud, but I don't remember where.
At Least...
#5090 posted by generic [71.1.9.22] on 2006/06/07 15:48:27
Head knows what I am talking about :)
I just wish I could remember which flippin' WAD it was from!
Flipper Fossil?
#5091 posted by negke [82.83.59.111] on 2006/06/07 23:39:20
sin.wad!
Neg!ke...
#5092 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/06/08 05:53:07
Possibly.
Can you send it to me?
Thx.
AguirRe
#5093 posted by PuLSaR [83.69.89.137] on 2006/06/09 12:32:10
I found a small bug in your engine. I usually load my map in your engine by using shortcut with +map command. I get no warnings. So I missed the moment when I got over one limit. I noticed it only when I changed the skill and loaded map with map command in console. I got a warning:
SV_CreateBaseLine: excessive signon buffer size (9202, normal max = 7998)
What is it? And can you fix that warning messages bug in your new version?
PuLSaR
#5094 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.72] on 2006/06/09 15:38:16
If you changed skill (typically to a higher skill) and reloaded the map, the amount of monsters/items usually increases. That's why you now get that warning; doing the same procedure in a normal engine would probably throw you out with a SZ_GetSpace ... error.
If you don't specify any skill at startup, the default is 1 (Normal).
Or am I missing something here?
Nonsolid Wall
#5095 posted by negke [82.82.169.29] on 2006/06/10 04:22:52
kind of re-inspired by the forcefield discussion:
is it possible to create a nonsolid wall (like func_illusionary) that is not treated like a static entity, so it can be removed with killtarget (info_notnull hack or something)?
Nonsolid Wall
#5096 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/06/10 05:33:45
Yeah, this is possible. The basic method can be found in post 36 in here:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
The example there looks like it would create a player model, but actually what matters is the modelindex n.
So if you set n to be the modelindex of an existing brush entity, you'll get a copy of that brush entity as a non solid removable info_notnull at the desired point. If you want to use an original brush model, one that isn't already in the map, you'll have to add it in as a func_wall somewhere, then remove the func_wall from the entity list after you've compiled the map. Probably easier to just leave the model in the map hidden unless you're pushed for entities.
Oh Yes, How Could I Miss That
#5097 posted by negke [82.83.32.190] on 2006/06/10 05:43:53
thanks!
Duh, Too Fast
#5098 posted by negke [82.83.32.190] on 2006/06/10 05:47:03
would that also work for moving entities - like a nonsolid door, for instance?
Non Solid Doors
#5099 posted by Preach [131.111.249.139] on 2006/06/10 16:55:40
Yeah, you could do that, but you'd only want to do it for simple, non linked doors. Well, I say that, but linked doors would really only be a matter of filling in more fields manually.
Basically to do it, just look at the func_door code in doors.qc, and imagine that running on your info_notnull. Then manually set all the fields to the values they would get. So for instance set
touch door_touch
use door_use
...
Although touch is actually a bad example as you don't need it here. Add any sounds you want, assuming they're precached elsewhere. Don't set think or nextthink, as you need them to set up the model. Also, don't set SOLID_BSP or MOVETYPE_PUSH, the former for the obvious reason, and the latter since it assumes SOLID_BSP. MOVETYPE_NOCLIP should work fine although I've not tested this.
Since you can't use think, you won't get a call to LinkDoors, as I alluded to above. But you can use the same trick about imagining running the LinkDoors function on some entities that should be linked and then manually setting what you would get. This involves manually creating a chain of entities in the enemy field, but refering to each component in the door by it's entity number. Ouch. So don't do that unless you really have to, and even then, probably easier to start with real doors, run the map, dump the in game entity info into a text file, then convert the entities to info_notnull, feed this info in and recompile.
Skipping the LinkDoors function means you also don't get the automatically generated trigger that surrounds it to open it. The easy fix here is just make it so your "door" is triggered by a trigger_once or trigger_multiple so it doesn't matter. You'll also need to set the enemy and owner fields to be the door itself in the simple unlinked case - remember that these fields expect an entity number, not a targetname.
Looking at this bit of code has also given me another exciting idea, but I'm gonna work on it and post it in the new tricks thread. This assumes it pans out...
Aguire
#5100 posted by PuLSaR [83.69.89.146] on 2006/06/11 08:22:06
You are not correct, I didn't change the skill.
When I load the map by a shortcut with -game arcane +map new4 parameters, I get no errors/warnings. But when I type restart in console then (no skill changing, the same skill 1), I get all warnings I should get. I tihink it's a bug.
Restart Issue
#5101 posted by negke [82.82.190.168] on 2006/06/11 09:56:57
not related to pulsar's question.
maybe this has been explained already: why is it that when manually restarting certain entities act differently than after a clean map load? e.g. items that spawn within the player (so he picks them up immediately) fall out of the level, or funcs that are removed upon startup (for suspended items) don't work anymore and the items fall to the floor...
PuLSaR
#5102 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.193] on 2006/06/11 10:21:56
It can still happen if you're right on the limit (like you were with Menkalinan). Have you tried doing the same procedure in e.g. Fitz (restart a number of times)? Do you get any error then or is everything OK?
If you want me to look into it, I need the zipped bsp and other files necessary to reproduce the issue.
How..
#5103 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/06/11 21:24:59
do I make items glow or have effects fields? I've completely forgotten how to do this. Something like key=effects value=integer, but I'd like to see a run down of all the possible effects.
Anyone know if I can apply a glowing effect to the spikey ball used in end.bsp to create a moving light?
Gah, all these useful QC hacks are somewhere in this thread, but we need a definite list of all the hacks without all the comments and how-tos aswell. Maybe someone knowledgeable could whip something up for Qexpo? (I am a bit busy and have already planned a lot of stuff I might not be able to finish on time).
For Than
#5104 posted by czg [83.253.25.47] on 2006/06/12 00:42:25
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
How....
#5105 posted by {}l3o{}[xXx] [86.130.98.5] on 2006/06/15 12:21:42
do i get worldcraft working with equake??? been trying for several days.. entered all the paths but it says it cant load such and such.. can anyone help? thnx in advance!!!
Details...
#5106 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/06/15 14:50:19
cant load such and such
*reads your mind*
Ah yes I see it now, you got ERROR 46:
"You want help learning how to map but you're extremely ignorant of important details so you should just give up now"
That Was A Bit On The Mean Side
#5107 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.182] on 2006/06/15 15:33:53
Never say die, Leo Triple X-y guy.
Hexen2 Madness
#5108 posted by nakasuhito [67.41.169.210] on 2006/06/15 16:03:44
im trying to compile this hexen2 level of mine, but i get a message saying i neeed gfx.wad! gah. what do i have to do?
what i did was to have worldcraft (1.6) compile the map into the data1/maps folder. im guessing thats where they go right? and whats with the gfx.wad thing? im using the original hexen texture.
agh, im so confused it makes me go pee-pee :-(
Little Help
#5109 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/06/15 17:11:34
here is a little help file that can help you on your way...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/WC33_...
maybe not the instant help you need, but for working with the program it can be a good catch!
Hexen2 Madness - The Vengeance
#5110 posted by nakasuhito [67.41.169.210] on 2006/06/15 19:17:01
i realised the maps folder goes on the portal one (hehe), but i cant still compile the map with the hexen2 tools. what the hell. can anyone help me on this? i really wanna see the crap i did ages ago. :-(
i dont know what im doing wrong. everything is how its suppose to be.. damn this. im gonna go cry.
JFC!!!!
#5111 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/16 11:16:43
So, I've already split the map in two, (it was three, then one)removed huge swathes of brushwork to get under the marksurfaces limit and chopped out loads of monsters, and now I've hit a SZ_GetSpace error!
How do I find out how far over the limit I am and which items should I look to remove. I have a few switchable lights I could drop, I have loads of torches (three types) but want to keep them, I only have 86 monsters in this part of the map and half of those spawn-in as opposed to teleporting, I have the usual number of triggers (trigger_once, monster_push etc) and buttons (only 8).
Ho hum...
About Map Compiling
#5112 posted by Spirit [80.171.40.107] on 2006/06/17 03:45:34
I just had a thought. With those looong compile times of big maps (like Tyrann: the long vis times required (~48 hours I'm guessing, still waiting...), how about something like SETI or the rc-72 project where lots of computers divide the cpu work. Would it possible to extend the compilers to do that?
Distributed Compiling
#5113 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/06/17 06:22:13
I wish! I don't think it would be all that easy though. There was something called 'netvis' around a long time ago (I never had it, but read about it), which could apparently be used over a LAN to speed up vis. If anyone knows any more about this, I'd be interested in looking into it.
I'm currently vis'ing my map on the fastest machine I have access to (dual 2.8GHz P4 Xeon, running Linux) and it's already taken more than 48 hours. If anyone has a faster machine they can offer, let me know!
Findings...
#5114 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/06/17 07:54:18
There was a version for quake, but it can't be downloaded now: http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/...
There were/are distributed tools for Half-Life compiling. Sounds like I was right about needing LAN speeds: http://collective.valve-erc.com/in...
Oh well, that's enough time spent on that for now.
Multi Processor VIS Tool
#5115 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/06/17 08:36:32
I already discussed that point with aguirRe during "Castle of the Dark Ages" fullvis runtime (around 51 days ... remember...). I asked him about multi processors vis executable existence, and maybe re-coding vis sources to target multi processors platform... He told me that first releases of vis.exe (correct me if I misunderstood please) were able to support multi processors... but on Unix environment only.. It was used by Id initially..
And as most of PC have only 1 processor.... it was not really a "priority"... well.. It is well known that it would divide runtime by two at most (or more if you have more than 2 processors installed on your PC)...
However, I never saw multi-processor PC platform... except at office (..under Linux... exactly like Tyrann's PC, but with P4 3.2GHz, 4Go RAM, 180 Go HD, etc..etc.. )...
Maybe these high performances machines will become cheaper in the next coming years... and then a multi-processors vis tool could help... though..
Time To Give Up?
#5116 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/17 14:15:14
So, the map won't load in Fitzquake but does load in a couple of other engines. So, I am using aguirRe's 1.31 and although the map loads and I can play, I get some weird effects like certain monsters not taking their shots i.e. I cant kill them but they can kill me!
Also, some monsters don't wake up until I walk right up to them AND blast them with both barrels.
One question for aguiRre direct: you say the GetSpace error can be caused by too many static entites, max 128. Does this mean 128 different entites or a grand total of 128? And what is a 'static' entity: non-moving models (torches), triggers, doors?
My Qbsp output says that I have 1296 entities (1013 of which are lights) and I have 111 BspModels. The monster count is 118. There are 10 monster types.
Looking at the figures, is there any benefit to getting rid of torches and braziers, and replacing them with lights?
I'm gonna play with some worms :-(
SZ_GetSpace
#5117 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.98] on 2006/06/17 15:24:46
Right now I can't remember in which case the engine aborted with a GetSpace error when having too many static ents, but I recall having that problem.
In any case, the static ents are just the ones that are made static from QC by calling the makestatic function. I don't think there's any check for if they're the same type; it's the # makestatic calls that counts. Calling makestatic also frees up that edict.
In my engines, you can check the current status by using the staticents command. It's hard to say from your description whether replacing torches with simple lights would help.
If you send me the zipped stuff (or better just a link if it's big) to reproduce the error, I can probably help you more.
JPL
#5118 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/06/17 18:08:14
I already discussed that point with aguirRe during "Castle of the Dark Ages" fullvis runtime (around 51 days ... remember...).
Argh! You're scaring me :-P
I asked him about multi processors vis executable existence, and maybe re-coding vis sources to target multi processors platform...
Yes, I know how to do this now (at least on Linux, but I think I can do the same for Windows). I'll put it into my next version of rvis and I'm sure aguirRe will pick it up soon after that. It won't be 'til after this map is done though.
AguiRre
#5119 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/18 03:51:21
Thanks.
It seems to be a question of 'sharing'. I have 200 static entities, which is 72 too many. Max_edicts are 1024 in Fitzquake and your engine reports that I have 700 in my map.
So, remove 'makestatic' from my five models in QC and they become 'edicts', which will then total 900 with 124 to spare. Or does something else fall into the melting pot?
I'll try it later today anyway.
I'm Afraid That
#5120 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.190] on 2006/06/18 06:23:19
turning the statics back into dynamics might add to the SZ_GetSpace problem (and/or packet overflows) as they then have to be updated to the client.
Btw, Fitz can handle up to 8192 edicts via the max_edicts cvar. Although I wouldn't recommend pushing it that far ...
AguiRre
#5121 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/18 07:53:16
OK, back on-track. I had mis-interpreted what the engine was telling me. When I looked at the .qc files, the 'makestatic' entries had already been turned off. Therefore the GetSpace error was not in fact to do with the staticents but probably with the edicts.
Turning some of the different types of torches back to 'makestatic' allows the game to run in FitzQ.
I now have 121 staticents and 235 edicts. So, I guess that means no more torches and the like but bung a few more monsters in.
I will now carry on, shaken but not stirred.
Tyrann
#5122 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/06/19 00:01:01
I'll look forward to aguirRe's and your next vis version for sure !
QC Setsize
#5123 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.151] on 2006/06/20 16:39:54
Is it more or less mandatory in QC to call setsize together with setmodel? I've noticed that if setsize isn't called on some mdls, then in some cases, the mdl isn't rendered properly by the engine; it sometimes disappears. This behaviour seems generally engine independant.
Specifically, there's a monster_rider in Malice that consists of one leg part and one upper body part. The body's size isn't set properly and in some of the maps, the body is sometimes invisible when it moves around.
Hm..
#5124 posted by necros [70.31.50.57] on 2006/06/20 16:54:26
don't know about rendering problems, but every time a model is set with setmodel, the bounds of the bbox are changed to the max and min of the largest frame in the model, so if you don't reset them, then collision will get screwed up.
AguiRre
#5125 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/21 11:13:20
Same problem with SZ_GetSpace errors.
I added to the monster count and was at 119 with everything working OK. But I added one more (now 120) and crashed out of FQ with GetSpace: > 8010.
Using your GLQuake 1.31 I can see in the loading log 'SV_CREATEBASELINE: excessive signon buffer size'. And it tells me that it is 8010 and the maximum allowed is 7998.
I have 121 statice ents, 427 edicts and 120 monsters, which is at least 30 short of my target.
My question is a simple, "How can I reduce the signon buffer size?" But I suspect the answer is not going to be staightforward :-(
This is not a revolutionary map by any means (except that as an FMB map it's all my own work!!) and I have already slashed it to the bone, but I would like to finish it to at least a half-way decent standard.
As always, any help or pointers you can give will be much appreciated.
A Slight Development..
#5126 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/21 13:04:32
I made the last two monsters (119 & 120) into spawned monsters (spawned-in not transported), and it now runs in Fitzquake.
Can I somehow read the SV_CREATEBASELINE value to see what effect the spawning had?
Is this the way to go i.e. make plenty of the monsters spawn in after the engine has loaded and is running?
The Signon Buffer
#5127 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.173] on 2006/06/21 14:25:34
is used by the server to build a list that represents the initial dynamic state of the map and this buffer is then meant to be sent to the client.
If the map contains too much dynamic stuff (e.g. monsters), then this buffer can't hold the entire list and the server aborts. The original buffer size was 8000 bytes, but due to a bug it can only handle 7998. I've increased that to 64k along with many other similar buffers.
As you've already noticed, delay spawned monsters usually help to cut down on the list size. This method is used extensively in e.g. Marcher or the recent JPL maps that utilize my variant of the old Zer trigger_spawn monster code. By spawning in monsters as the player is going physically through the map, the total dynamic load on the server is greatly reduced. Delayed spawning helps in the beginning and middle of a map and corpse removal helps in the middle and end.
There's currently no way in my engines to see the buffer requirements if it's lower than the old limit. Beware that some combinations of dynamic stuff (e.g. moving brushes) may cause overflow also during play or when reloading a saved game, even if seems OK at startup. My typical example is Menkalinan on Hard skill; try loading it with Fitz repeatedly and you'll see that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
AguiRre
#5128 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/06/21 15:02:12
Thanks for that, I feel a lot better now.
I have had spawning monsters since the start of the build (Preach's "style" "1" code that I have adapted somewhat) but only used it for ambushes and return routes. I will now extend it.
I also have selective corpse removal (I didn't like the look of monsters sinking through overhead walkways) and numerous 'killtarget', more for tidying up than anything else, so I will review the further use of these.
On the one hand I am fedup with continually finding limitations within Quake (yes, I know it's ten years old!) but on the other hand, it's great fun learning new things about it :-)
Thanks again.
Tyrann
#5129 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/06/27 03:20:17
You might try to contact the author of NetVis:
seanc ::at:: gearboxsoftware.com
I Wonder
#5130 posted by HeadThump [65.140.53.167] on 2006/06/27 08:25:29
if anyone has been tempted to add Quake support to Q3map2 now that the code for it is GPLed. I build my maps testing for leaks with that compiler before compiling to Quake format, and the compile times are usually quicker.
Vis For Other Quakes
#5131 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/06/28 18:34:19
Quick question for a Quake 2 or Quake 3 mapper: when you vis a map in those games, I assume it tells you the number of portals. Are the portal counts similar to those for Quake? If possible, could you post the console output from a vis job for a large map?
I'm just trying to get some perspective on some of the different tradeoffs used in the Q2/Q3 vis tools.
FWIW, there are some nice optimisations in there, and I've already managed to speed things up about 20% so far. That's only testing with medium size maps though (obviously I'm not going to run 10 different benchmarks on JPL's map ;).
Baker
#5132 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/06/28 18:36:06
Thanks for the tip. I might try contacting him once the QExpo stuff is out of the way.
I'll Mail You A Vis Output
#5133 posted by pjw [67.129.250.254] on 2006/06/29 11:54:35
tonight for a large Q3 map, if no one else gets around to it, and I don't get distracted by some shiny object.
I don't really want to post it because it would just be a big bolus of crap in the middle of the forum. :)
That'd Be Good
#5134 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/06/29 14:00:10
Thanks pjw.
You Have Mail
#5135 posted by pjw [24.183.100.188] on 2006/06/29 20:22:18
I sent the vis log for pjw3dm5, along with compiler/switch info; let me know if you need anything else.
Also
#5136 posted by pjw [24.183.100.188] on 2006/06/29 20:28:06
I noticed the vis time on that gigantic Q3 map took...six seconds. Is there a simple non-coder explanation for why vis takes so damn long on earlier engines?
700 portalclusters
1682 numportals
2736 numfaces
3364 active portals
416 hint portals
visdatasize:61608
Total visible clusters: 54658
Average clusters visible: 78
#5137 posted by pjw [24.183.100.188] on 2006/06/29 20:29:19
I guess detail brushes help a shitload, now that I think about it.
I'll shut up now.
Got It. Thanks.
#5138 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/06/29 23:00:16
Yes, I think it's the detail brushes mainly. numportals is the important one to watch - I'm dealing with about 40,000 numportals for my stupid map...
Another interesting fact: the "-fast" vis process on this map is so innefficient that the resulting visdata adds about 12MB to the bsp file size!
Weird Problem With Light Crashing...
#5139 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/04 17:40:13
Ok, my level is nearly finished, but now I seem to have hit upon a curious problem which crashes LIGHT if I add anymore brushes.
At the moment I can light the map only if it is less than a certain amount of brushes. If I add new brushes, I have to delete other brushes, so at the moment I am just disabling the clip brush visgroup when I export to map. This works, but soon I will run out of clip brushes to do this with, and actually rather like the map to have clip brushes.
Aguires light crashes straight away, but when I tried using tyrlight, I got an error, whgich was something like "bad face normal at x,x,x". Of course, this was on a compiled bsp, so finding the culprit was difficult, and I think it might be different every time.
BSP and VIS run fine without any warnings, and I have tried using other compilers, not using remove skip etc. all to no avail. If anyone has any idea what the problem is, I will be your best buddy for life!
Please help! Sorry I haven't clarified this more, I don't hve much net access time left.
Than
#5140 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.188] on 2006/07/05 01:43:27
If you send me the zipped bsp, I'll look into it.
Ok..
#5141 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/05 03:47:52
shortly it will be done.
I love you, AguiRe! xxx
Beta Testing
#5142 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/06 20:52:53
I need a couple of people to help test my dm3 sp remake before QExpo. I have already sent the first beta off to some people, but would like a fresh set of eyes to look when the second is ready. Any takers?
Than
#5143 posted by Spirit [80.171.128.120] on 2006/07/06 21:06:07
me!
Than
#5144 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/07/06 23:04:18
I'm in as well..
Ok.
#5145 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/07 01:30:45
Cheers.
I will send you an email with the map when it's ready in the next week or so.
Meme!
#5146 posted by bambuz [193.167.3.24] on 2006/07/07 03:11:10
meizah at gmail
Incomplete versions are fine too.
The geometry and gameplay and connectivity interests me the mosts, since i'm not that good on commenting looks. (cause i suck at mapping)
Ok. Thanks Guys.
#5147 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/07 03:44:25
That's all the testers I need. Like I said before, I will email as soon as the second beta is ready.
Be A .pal
#5148 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.7] on 2006/07/07 11:18:59
I lost my Paint Shop Pro .pal file, and when I try to create a new index by using WinQuake screenshots, I don't get the full 256 varieties of Quake flavors. If someone could send an accurate index to the address I have listed, I would not only be your best .pal (har!har!har!) but pay for the ticket for the mapper of your choice to
come to your town and give you a complementary handjob.
HT
#5149 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/07/07 12:28:08
.pal ?? What it is supposed to be ?
Brrr
#5150 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.37] on 2006/07/07 12:34:05
If you have the palette.lmp file, just use the old palcnv12 utility:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Thanks AquiRe,
#5151 posted by HeadThump [65.141.72.94] on 2006/07/07 13:52:46
I'll arrange for Stevie Case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevi...
to fly in this weekend ;)
Palette Tips
#5152 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/08 22:00:19
The best way (for photoshop users) as I discovered at the weekend is to load a quake skin and then go to image > mode > colour palette and then save the colour palette (either act or pal are available).
To convert to the Quake palette, I find that texmex does the best job (and has the option to remove fullbrites), and photoshop is terrible at converting to 8 bit colour.
Anyway, it's likely that there is a similar option in PSP, so grab a Quake skin from the net...
...er, or this palette file :)
http://quake.perm.ru/skin/pallette... (from http://quake.perm.ru/skin/skins.ht...
By The Way...
#5153 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/08 22:01:20
does anyone have a collection of Ken Scott's old Quake skins? They were by far the best available, and were quite plentiful. However, his site is no longer online, and I couldn't find any of his old work online.
Dunno About Ken Scott
#5154 posted by Spirit [80.171.53.243] on 2006/07/09 00:21:12
but Megazoid collected a shitload of player skins:
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Hey Than,
#5155 posted by HeadThump [65.140.53.107] on 2006/07/09 01:14:28
I've got a pack of Scott skins. I'll zip them up and send them to you right a way.
Size Pal
#5156 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/07/10 08:54:29
http://members.home.nl/gimli/PALSI...
Thanks, Madfox
#5157 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.126] on 2006/07/10 18:47:59
but what I really need now is the textures to Diakatana episode 2. If someone could point the way to a download, that would be swell.
HeadThump
#5158 posted by R.P.G. [24.28.249.10] on 2006/07/10 19:13:19
The original .wal, or a Q1 .wad?
Good Question
#5159 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.126] on 2006/07/10 19:19:15
I probably should dabble with the Quake1 wad before coming to a final decision. If DKT2 suits the brush work, I'll likely need the originals to
fine tune them a bit.
To Give An Idea,
#5160 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.126] on 2006/07/10 19:22:41
I originaly textured the map in IKBlue for a very
Karanen style map; but as there is much outdoors as indoors in the map, the variety is not there in IkBlue to sustain the theme through.
Sorry For The Endless Post
#5161 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.126] on 2006/07/10 19:34:03
but I had forgotten about Spirit's wad collection. I was under the impression the wad site died with Scampie losing his site last year. Thanks, though.
#5162 posted by Spirit [213.39.186.99] on 2006/07/10 23:03:16
:)
Aop2m1 - Author?
#5163 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/12 15:28:02
Does anyone know who made the "aop" maps, I've found single player and DM maps starting with "aop" but cannot locate a readme in any of the zips I've found, not even the Underworld site.
Anyone happen to know the name of the author for aop2m1 or the other aop maps?
Heh
#5164 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/12 15:37:24
Nevermind ... figured it out.
Ray (not Of The Notorious Variety)
#5165 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/12 21:09:03
back in the early days I played a couple of levels by an author named Ray. Both levels were of a good standard, and very closely matched the id levels. One was an idbase level, and the other was a metal map. Each had "Ray" written in fullbrite red in a secret location. Does anyone else remember these maps and know where I can download them?
Headthump
#5166 posted by Sielwolf [84.130.225.63] on 2006/07/12 21:47:33
could you upload those skins to a freehost so we can all get them ? Thanks.
I Got A Copy Of DKT From
#5167 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.164] on 2006/07/12 22:00:18
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
I actually spent the evening modifying a different set of textures that needed a bit of darkening to fit the Quake scheme (not IKWhite) for the map.
Preach, Or
#5168 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.164] on 2006/07/12 22:41:36
anyone with Grade A sexy knowledge of QuakeC, is there anyway to get a killtarget to eliminate a func_illusionary using some sort entity field wizardry in unmodified Quake?
#5169 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/07/13 02:00:28
than were dm or sp maps? i think i already seen that also...
i can look at home but if u say dm or sp spair me a lot of troubles... they are so many :\
Trinca
#5170 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/13 03:41:53
they were SP/DM hybrid maps like the standard id maps. I think they were mainly intended for sp, and whilst not particularly challenging or interesting, they were solid and I would like to see them again.
#5171 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/07/13 05:20:05
i will try to find when i get home tonight! i´m at work :( and at work just can map and see webpages... :|
Headthump
#5172 posted by negke [82.82.175.114] on 2006/07/13 06:56:11
works with the info_notnull/modelindex trick. see preach's posts a few pages before.
Special Characters In Quake.exe
#5173 posted by negke [82.82.175.114] on 2006/07/13 07:12:35
how can i find out which special characters are usable in quake - like the umlaut in zerstorer, which is done by "Þ" (Þ in html)?
the name makers i tried only had standard letters.
i'm specifically looking for something to display "à"... if it'S possible at all, that is.
Custom Characters
#5174 posted by Preach [81.151.72.120] on 2006/07/13 07:41:34
http://wiki.quakesrc.org/index.php... is a list of the characters you can get in quake. I don't see à on the list, so what you might want to do is replace one of the existing characters on there with a custom graphic for à. You'll need one of the special quake utilities to edit conchars, either adquedit or fimg
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtop...
I don't know if this is how zerstorer did it, but it's possible.
#5175 posted by negke [82.82.175.85] on 2006/07/13 12:00:32
those are the standard characters i was talking about. but apparently there must be more. i'm sure in zer it wasn't done by replacing any characters with custom ones. so i just figured if there is ö there might be others as well.
You
#5176 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.19] on 2006/07/13 12:49:01
mean the blanks in conchars.pcx in gfx.wad openable with adquedit?
Characters
#5177 posted by Preach [81.151.72.120] on 2006/07/13 14:03:47
Those are the only characters quake has, the font is defined by the conchars image. I've gone and checked, and adding replacing characters is indeed how the zerstorer guys did it. If you open up gfx.wad and look at conchars, they added two o-umlauts as the last two characters of the image. I would guess that these are a good choice for a replacement. You probably don't need to replace both, best to go for the second last one.
But
#5178 posted by bambuz [213.169.4.19] on 2006/07/13 14:32:40
there are lots of empty characters here and there.
Gah
#5179 posted by negke [82.83.42.56] on 2006/07/13 14:51:09
ok, thanks. i didn't get it because conchars isn't displayed in texmex for some reason. worked with another program.
i'm likely not going to fiddle around with it, though.
Some Of The
#5180 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.226] on 2006/07/13 14:58:15
empty chars are used in combination with other chars by the engine to e.g. simulate a blinking cursor. Stock conchars and std engines have issues with this that e.g. the OUM conchars has "fixed" (i.e. compensated for it).
But then changed engines (e.g. DP) get problems due to overcompensation. Argh ...
Neg!ke
#5181 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.226] on 2006/07/13 15:01:26
TexMex and conchars editing is a really sorry mess.
Yeah...
#5182 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/07/13 15:25:10
but the problem with OUM is that they switched which char was blank and which had a cursor.
I ended up giving up on all that and I now put hard-coded cursor images into fitzquake. It sucks that mods can't customize them, but at least they are consistent to the user.
For All Of You Making QEXPO Maps...
#5183 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/07/13 19:02:08
If anyone has a monstrous map that they need to compile, send it to me. I am setting up an ex-server that has 4 processors, and if my assumptions are correct, this will greatly speed up the compiling process compared to almost any other modern system.
Unless, of course, by some horrible circumstance, our compilers do not run on linux and do not support multiprocessor setups...
Inertia
#5184 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/07/13 19:39:13
I can send you my multi-threaded vis for Linux. Works great.
Tyrann
#5185 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/07/13 19:50:24
please do. email is in profile!
Inertia
#5186 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.126] on 2006/07/13 21:09:30
...does not appear to be there?
Tyrann
#5187 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/07/13 23:02:23
woops. sent you an email tho'
Than
#5188 posted by Trinca [87.196.245.180] on 2006/07/16 16:00:44
www.quaddicted.com/filebase/tig00....
i think is that u are looking...
Argh!
#5189 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/07/16 20:51:05
the link didn't work. You need to put http:// in front of it for it to work.
#5190 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/07/17 01:28:59
http://quaddicted.com/filebase/tig...
i saw author Ray and are both dm and sp i didn´t saw maps :)
Two Things
#5191 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.141] on 2006/07/17 13:25:48
Jago reported an issue with FrikQCC in late 2004 that it couldn't compile the Hipnotic QC without screwing up the Scourge/Centroid monster animations.
I just found out that this is actually caused by the hipscrge.qc file having multiple (and invalid) frame definitions. Delete the 2nd set and Frik will build properly.
Is it common knowledge that setting the engine cvar gl_nocolors 1 will significantly improve the look of players in mods with multiple player skins?
I've often wondered why some models (e.g. the mini-sub in Malice) looked different (and much worse) when looking at the player from e.g. chase_cam. It's actually the DM coloured shirts/pants logic that's being applied to skins that definitely never were intended for it.
Nice
#5192 posted by NotoriousRay [68.33.252.95] on 2006/07/18 07:19:38
Aguire, that's cool! I encountered that same bug recently, when I was building the codebase for pbrsp2. Weird thing is that whe I compiled using proqcc, my old go-to in qc compilers, it doesn't b0rk their animations at all. Which is what I used for the code for pbrsp1, and never saw any issue with the centroids because I never tried frikqcc with it. Maybe I can switch to it now, then.
#5193 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/07/18 08:22:05
i use fteqcc :) start loving it when Spike made a lot of modificacion in the compiler :)
I Like FrikQCC
#5194 posted by HeadThump [65.140.57.38] on 2006/07/18 09:23:06
and Frik the man, but it is suprising that his compiler doesn't catch it as a type of recursion error. I ran into this error when working with the scourge.qc file a few weeks ago, A simple glance at the text revealed someone had a made a simple cut and paste boo boo a long time ago.
Question On HL2 Mapping
#5195 posted by Jago [194.86.38.38] on 2006/07/19 07:32:54
As HL2 Source engine continues to be updated and new expansion packs are being released, how does this affect the work of a HL2 mapper?
If gfx features X and Y are introduced in HL2 Episode 1 or 2, can a mapper use those features in a standard HL2 map or will the map require the expansion pack which introduced the feature into the engine? What about new entities, sounds, textures and models?
Doubtful
#5196 posted by Blitz [63.97.37.210] on 2006/07/19 08:47:18
To even have access to the content you'd need to buy the packs. If you're asking whether or not it's "legal" if someone say rips all the content from the packs and puts online for mappers to use in standalone HL2, I would say probably not. However I doubt anyone would notice if you used some textures here or there, but again I doubt anyone would take the risk of hosting the content.
Gmax?
#5197 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/07/27 17:16:33
I am following the article of Preach about animating models on Q10Ex,
and I really enjoy it.
So strange I can't get my Gmax working.
I logged in but the programm isn't available.
They stopped supporting in it nov.2005.
Then I found it on FilePlanet, and installed it.
But it needs an Registering User ID to get it working.
I register myself to TurboSquid and I'm Welcome.
But I can't find my Registering User Id code in the email ?
I Need Some QC Help Here
#5198 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/07/29 17:00:43
blah actually I don't, but I did have a problem and had written a huge post about it, but then I managed to fix it.
The problem was with self.nextthink = time + whatever;. I thought this was perfectly fine, but apparently I was wrong. Changing it to self.nextthink = self.ltime + whatever; fixed it, but why? Nextthink is set in relation to time a lot of places in the original qc. Why wouldn't it work in my case?
What was happening for me was that the nextthink would be set to time + whatever + whatever time was the first time I referenced it;
Czg
#5199 posted by R.P.G. [24.28.249.10] on 2006/07/29 19:21:42
Does this have anything to do with that map that we're all forcing you to release?
Yes. Yes It Does.
#5200 posted by czg [83.253.26.14] on 2006/07/29 20:09:06
Ltime And Movetype_push
#5201 posted by Preach [86.137.243.60] on 2006/07/30 03:06:34
CZG, is the entity in question something with movetype_push, like a BSP object? These objects always use ltime for their nextthink instead of think. Thanks to the 3rd post in http://collective.valve-erc.com/in...
I've found out why. ltime stops increasing for an entity while it's blocked, which makes a lot of sense. Otherwise if you blocked a door until it would otherwise arrive at it's destination, it would call the end journey function, which teleports it into place(to remove the slight floating point inaccuracies you'd otherwise get). This would probably get the player stuck.
Yep, There's My Answer. Thanks.
#5202 posted by czg [83.253.26.14] on 2006/07/30 06:29:29
CZG's Curve Tutorial Is 404
#5203 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/07/31 19:43:03
http://czg.leveldesign.org/curv_tu...
Archive.org of it:
http://web.archive.org/web/2005030...
which has broken images.
Here's A Temporary Replacement
#5204 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.228] on 2006/08/01 02:29:23
I made a while back, it's got some pics.
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
Anybody Know Where I Can Find . . .
#5205 posted by ijed [201.236.125.236] on 2006/08/02 11:05:40
a md3 exporter d/load link for max6?
Question For Tool Coders
#5206 posted by Kinn [217.42.5.96] on 2006/08/09 13:45:01
what's the feasibility of making a tool that takes a quake .bsp as input and outputs the world geometry as a single mesh that can be imported into, say, 3DSMax? After all, the visible hull is just a bunch of triangles, right?
Not concerned with textures or anything, just geometry.
The reason I ask is I'm considering doing a remix of a Q1SP map for Doom3, and I thought having something like that would be kinda handy as a guide.
Sorta
#5207 posted by tron [59.167.151.250] on 2006/08/09 14:52:22
Kinn: according to rome.ro the quake map sources may be very close to release, apparently Romero is just getting confirmation from id that they're ok to release.
Tron
#5208 posted by Kinn [217.42.5.96] on 2006/08/09 14:59:21
whoa - that would kinda help things i guess :}
Um
#5209 posted by DaZ [80.41.153.40] on 2006/08/09 15:17:53
doesn't DUBSP.EXE output a <mapname>.max when it compiles a .MAP file ? I am assuming that is a 3dsmax .MAX format file but I've never tried opening one. So all you need to do is use BSP>MAP converter and then compile with DUBSP.EXE
This is all theoretical of course :)
BSP>MAP
#5210 posted by DaZ [80.41.153.40] on 2006/08/09 15:22:20
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Cheers QuakeOne Navigator! =)
Hmm
#5211 posted by BlackDog [220.235.164.19] on 2006/08/09 15:42:14
I've seen a tool that can export q3bsps to VRML, so if you can go to q1bsp->q3bsp somehow you may pull it off without having to write a line of code.
A breif google didn't turn up any easy way to do that, though.
Kinn
#5212 posted by HeadThump [65.140.59.249] on 2006/08/09 17:04:16
Most of those command line editors have some severe limitations to them.
I would recommend using Id's Quake 3 Arena tool BSPC to decompile the bsp into a map file (it works on all Quake formats) and then use a utility like 3d Exploration to convert the map into an obj or 3ds file. There is a non trial period version of 3d exploration floating out there, but I haven't seen it since in several months.
Baring that, you can convert the .map file into an .ase file using q3map2.
Anyone?
#5213 posted by generic [71.1.9.58] on 2006/08/09 17:47:15
Is it possible to compile Q3 or any of its tools with Visual Studio 6.0? If so, could someone please point me to a resource that lists out the steps necessary to accomplish this?
I am such a Visual Basic/non-C++ person (n_n)
Thanks in advance (^_^)
Hey Generic,
#5214 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.172] on 2006/08/09 18:46:25
You need a simple command line tool called prjconverter (I'm sending a copy to your email address in a second). Drop the VC7 project file into it and it'll pop out VC6 dsp and dsw files. From there it compiles like a breeze.
Kinn:
#5215 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/08/09 18:49:00
I'd start with the engine code as a base, since it turns the bsp into a giant list of polygons that share edges and vertices. From that point it's just a matter of spitting out what's in memory into a standard 3d mesh format. UVs could be retained, as could references to textures/materials.
Not saying this is a trivial job, but it seems mainly like a question of learning the file format you need to output.
Generic ,
#5216 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.172] on 2006/08/09 21:42:41
I sent the program as a zipped attachment, but got back a postmaster response that the zip has kooties are something. I checked it with several commercial and free antivirus programs and nothing turns up. I suspect the filtering processes being deployed are growing more bullshit oriented by the day.
So this should be just as useful:
www.codeproject.com/tools/prjconve...
Errr. ..
#5217 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.172] on 2006/08/09 21:43:44
www.codeproject.com/tools/prjconve...
Cool
#5218 posted by Kinn [195.92.144.188] on 2006/08/10 04:59:19
thanks for the replies guys. I guess it seems there's already ways of getting a .map extracted from a .bsp and then turning the .map into a mesh - although I can imagine this would result in a rather messy mesh, retaining all the brush polys that would normally get culled during the bsp stage.
metlslime's idea sounds promising - use a modified engine to spit out just a nice clean mesh of the visible hull that I could get into .ase format to import into DOOMEdit, which I could then show/hide to act as a visual guide to the layout and scale whilst I create the new brushwork.
It Strikes Me
#5219 posted by HeadThump [65.141.127.62] on 2006/08/10 09:06:39
use a modified engine to spit out just a nice clean mesh of the visible hull that I could get into .ase format
as overkill for what you are trying to accomplish.
Texture Alignment
#5220 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/08/10 12:00:13
I have one entity brush on which the textures are misaligned by 16 units when in-game compared to the editor view. No other entites are affected in this way (or have ever been).
Anyone any clues?
#5221 posted by neg!ke [82.83.33.52] on 2006/08/10 12:09:50
could it be the -oldaxis thing?
Mike:
#5222 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/08/10 12:43:05
is it on a surface angled 45 degrees?
Well Yeah...
#5223 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/08/10 12:44:40
if all he's trying to do is convert the map to a more recent id engine game, using a mesh in any stage of the process is silly.
Just do bsp2map and open the map in doomedit. Or, wait for Romero to release the maps, and open THAT map in doomedit.
Cheers...
#5224 posted by generic [71.1.10.80] on 2006/08/10 14:34:04
Thump!
I'll have a look-see...
Texture Misalignment
#5225 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/08/10 14:37:54
Neg!ke: tried the -oldaxis but it didn't make any difference but did mess up some 45 degree textures.
Metlslime: no, this is not a 45 degree surface
Mike...
#5226 posted by generic [71.1.10.80] on 2006/08/10 14:41:53
Are you using Worldcraft/Hammer?
Is the texture rotated?
Also, boxers or briefs?
Maybe
#5227 posted by Ankh [80.54.3.203] on 2006/08/10 15:36:31
maybe there is a duplicate brush (with misaligned texture) which isn't clearly visible in the editor but gets visible in the engine?
Texture Misalignment
#5228 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/08/11 12:02:45
generic: I use BspEditor (latest) and the texture is not rotated or off-set in any way. Oh, and commando!
Ankh: when I read your suggestion I thought you had got it as this brush does come from another map and I could have double-pasted. But no, not to be.
It appears to be off-set 13 units. Perhaps I'll just have it unlit and nobody will notice!
Weird...
#5229 posted by generic [71.1.10.70] on 2006/08/11 15:12:41
the whole commando thing ;)
Mike, if you offset it 13-units in the editor, does it fix it in the game?
Have you copied the brush elsewhere in the map to see if it still draws funky?
Does it matter what texture it is?
Well...
Generic
#5230 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/08/11 15:36:57
Yes, I off-set in the editor and it looks OK in-game. The minnor problem is that the entity brush is set amongst ordinary brushes with the same texture so it looks stupid in the editor.
Ho hum, I'll carry on.
(OK, if not commando perhaps directoire?)
I Don't Know About Directoire But...
#5231 posted by generic [71.1.10.70] on 2006/08/11 16:58:56
I can sympathize with your texture trouble. In my yet-to-be-released mini-marcher speedmap, I had some rotated textures looking rather sweet in the editor, but they looked very poop-ish in game. It turns out I was rotating them by fractional degress which Quake, apparently, does not do :|
That Happens
#5232 posted by HeadThump [65.141.73.204] on 2006/08/11 17:44:44
rather sweet in the editor, but they looked very poop-ish in game. often with my set up as well. Easy enough, once you get use to, it to watch for in a full map, but really inconvenient for a speed map.
Uh, boxers -- the boys gotta beathe, but commando causes too much straffing with heavier fabrics.
Strafing?
#5233 posted by BlackDog [58.7.166.229] on 2006/08/12 05:25:14
I'd be worried about more than my underwear fit if my genitals had the ability to bunnyhop. O_o
Hey,
#5234 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.124] on 2006/08/12 10:53:14
it's a Latin thing, and the Ladies love it!
HeadThump
#5235 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/08/12 11:15:32
I just remebered that in the Bsp.ini file (I use BspEditor) there is a setting to resolve the 45degree problem.
In version .94, I noticed that it is switched off by default: texture_alignment=0. So you need to change it to texture_alignment=1 and that avoids the problem.
Obviously, only relevant if you use BspEditor.
I've Been Considering
#5236 posted by HeadThump [65.140.58.124] on 2006/08/12 11:40:02
using the latest bspeditor for texturing because of those discrepencies. In GTKRadiant the texturing tool, the surface inspector, is geared towards q3map2 capabilaties, and when I see everything looking hunkydory in the editor and then screwed up in game, it is a bit of kneebiter.
You Can Turn That Off
#5237 posted by BlackDog [58.7.166.229] on 2006/08/12 17:02:25
In 1.4, edit this line in local.pref
<epair name="Q3Map2Tex">true...
In 1.5, I think it's an option in preferences.
Gah Fucking Ellipse BS
#5238 posted by BlackDog [58.7.166.229] on 2006/08/12 17:07:10
<epair name="Q3Map2Tex"> true </epair>
With no spaces.
Thanks Blackdog
#5239 posted by HeadThump [65.140.56.84] on 2006/08/12 18:56:05
I've tried that and I've been making a test map. The way it works reminds me of good old QeRadiant, but that is what I need!
Edict Count
#5240 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/08/13 03:16:37
aguirRe's excellent engine shows the edict count of a map when a map is loaded.
What gets counted as an edict, for the purposes of maintaining compatibility with glquake/winquake?
My guess:
1. Monsters
2. Platforms/doors/triggers
3. But not lights except dynamic lights (torches)
Am I close?
Baker
#5241 posted by Kinn [86.136.155.96] on 2006/08/13 04:33:46
the edict list consists of all entities in the map that haven't already been removed or made static. e.g. lights are removed on map spawn, except those associated with models, e.g. torches - but torches are made into static ents and hence don't contribute to the edict count either. Switchable lights however need to be interacted with, so are not removed and hence stay as edicts.
Any entity that is spawned during gameplay, e.g. a nail or rocket, is just as much an edict as one that spawns on map load, e.g. a monster. This is why maps that are already close to the edict limit on map load can be taken over the limit with lots of gibs or missiles flying around.
when an entity is removed, an edict slot is freed from the list and can be filled again by a newly spawned entity at a later date.
You Can Also
#5242 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.67] on 2006/08/13 09:07:38
enable scr_showedicts 1 to see the current active/max edict count in the map. It's the max count that must be <=600 to have the map playable in the original GL/WinQuake.
Also
#5243 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.67] on 2006/08/13 09:13:18
In my upcoming engines, I've added an alternate edict re-use policy to delay edict re-usage as much as possible to help catch some difficult QC errors. Together with the check for accessing free edicts, it's a lot easier to track edict morphing issues.
Night Journey, MOTRD
#5244 posted by shadowalker [71.102.227.101] on 2006/08/13 12:12:11
I can't get those off the evilllll fileplanet. I need alternet direct download location. Does anyone have one?
as
Removing Gun For Screenshots
#5245 posted by Jed [64.35.203.91] on 2006/08/13 12:16:32
Quick Question: How do you remove the player's gun to take map screenshots in Quake?
R_drawviewmodel 0
#5246 posted by bambuz [213.169.31.97] on 2006/08/13 13:27:01
Func FP Account Details
#5247 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/13 18:41:56
The old QMap pass doesn't work, so try these if you want files:
login: Func_MsgBoard
pass: Shambler
Aligning Textures
#5248 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/08/14 07:55:29
What is the best way to go with aligning textures on angled/skewed brushes?
I remember this topic was discussed on func a month or two ago but I can't find it.
Ankh
#5249 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/14 09:52:26
rotation is your friend. Usually you will be rotating 45 (1:1), 27 (2:1) or 63 (1:2) degrees. Textures will normally still be skewed if the brush is angled on more than one axis (e.g. a curved trim that is sloped upwards) so the best thing to do is to use a fairly plain texture that doesn't have too much detail that would make it look obviously skewed.
I Didn't Notice
#5250 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/08/14 12:01:02
until recently that Worldcraft (versions 3.3 and above) have a nice set of buttons on the texture properties dialog:
Textures can be fit across one face or multiple faces, or aligned to the left, right, top, bottom, and center of faces with a single button click.
http://collective.valve-erc.com/in...
Which One Of These Isn't Like The Other?
#5251 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/08/15 16:40:41
I don't know why, but for some reason the texture alignments I make in Radiant for this angled stairtrim <href=http://biff.leveldesign.o... don't look the same ingame. I've heard from SPoG that it could be a compiler error, but I'm not sure what to do if it is, and if it is. Gah.
Err.
#5252 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/08/15 16:42:07
I obviously fucktangled the link to my illustration, so here: http://biff.leveldesign.org/pics/b...
Bouef...
#5253 posted by distrans [131.172.4.45] on 2006/08/15 18:20:32
...I get that sort of thing when I forget and try to use an angle that is not an integer.
Could Be...
#5254 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/08/15 18:49:18
if the editor lets you set floating point rotation values. The map format (or maybe the tools) only allow integer rotation values.
Yes, But...
#5255 posted by generic [71.1.1.249] on 2006/08/15 19:00:57
which one? Is it the tools or the map format that restricts texture degrees to integers? I am sure I don't know :{
Yeah, And
#5256 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/08/16 02:20:09
What could I do in this case?
Well...
#5257 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/08/16 13:12:04
when i have an angle like that that isn't on a integer rotation, I sometimes break the span into two smaller chunks, and bend the texture slightly at the middle, so that it follows the shape more closely. Or adjust the geometry to have a different slope (sometimes the geometry can't really change, though.)
Bah
#5258 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/08/16 14:20:26
I think I've got an idea on how to avoid the whole angled brush thing altogether, but it means redoing the composition of the room. Gah. But thanks you guys =D
Kell's Skyboxes Are 404!
#5259 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/08/16 14:26:23
http://kell.leveldesign.org/
When I go to download one of Kell's skyboxes, I get 404 on all of them. Just a heads up.
Non-integer Rotation
#5260 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2006/08/16 23:13:51
I use a later version of worldcraft, and I also use Bengt's compile tools. Needless to say, WC decides on some insane texture coordinates when you use the "intelligent" fitting functions. But, they compile just fine. Try those compilers out.
Hrmm
#5261 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/08/17 03:10:30
Think I'm already using aguirre's stuff. Bah, I've changed to room up anyways -- just hoping now I've got enough room for a decent coop session.
#5262 posted by Kell [80.192.19.252] on 2006/08/17 05:57:05
When I go to download one of Kell's skyboxes, I get 404 on all of them. Just a heads up.
ahem...
Due to the inordinate amount of work to compose 49 separate downloads, these skyboxes are currently only available in a single download as The Kothic Skybox Compilation.
http://kell.leveldesign.org/skies-...
;)
;)
#5263 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/08/17 08:09:33
Works for me. Thanks for the reply.
Teleporting Monsters Code Updated
#5264 posted by Preach [81.152.233.109] on 2006/08/21 05:38:29
Not sure where to put this, but it doesn't deserve it's own thread, so I guess mapping help is probably the place. A while back I posted the code for adding a teleporting monsters flag. If you set it then the monster would start invisible and teleport in when you triggered it. There were two things about the code I posted which I didn't like.
One was that I'd been lazy and not used a spawnflag. This was mostly because I didn't want to check which spawnflags were already used for monsters, so I just used a different field for the flag. This works fine, but in retrospect I think spawnflags are the way to go. The other was that you had to alter each monsters' spawn function to impliment the code, which is tedious and messy.
So I've got around to writing up a new tutorial on how to do things properly, and it's now up on inside3d.
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
This new function should work on all monsters, even custom ones, as long as they use walkmonster_start. This makes it nice and easy to plug in to any existing mod, which should be helpful. The tutorial uses spawnflag 8 for teleporting, which to the best of my knowledge is safe for monsters. Anyone know of an exception?
+Health & Trigger_Hurt
#5265 posted by . [70.224.202.201] on 2006/08/23 15:08:01
So I drop in a trigger_hurt in front of a health console thing (ala Half-Life) and it successfully gives the player +health (by using a negative numeral damage). But, 2 problems:
- the player reels back in pain (this could be explained, I mean - shots do hurt)
- you can continually eek health past 200!
So how do you stop either of these bits, but mostly - how do you stop it from continually giving you health beyond the set value (say -50 - which would add +50 health to your current health).
Info_notnull
#5266 posted by Preach [217.44.86.94] on 2006/08/23 17:11:24
Make the brush an info_notnull with the following fields
think InitTrigger
nextthink 0.5
touch health_touch
healamount 50
noise items/r_item1.wav
If you want regular, non mega-health style healing, ie. capped at 100, that's all you need to do. If you want mega-health style, capped at 250, with tickdown for health over 100, then add
healtype 2
This will only trigger once, but there are ways to reactivate it. If you add
use SUB_regen
targetname blah
then every time you trigger blah it'll restore it for another heal. I'm not sure if any combination of those will do quite what you want, but play about and I'm sure you can get a reasonable healing machine.
Preach
#5267 posted by . [70.224.202.201] on 2006/08/23 18:47:47
Thanks! That works wonderfully except for 1 minor message/error:
Sv_startsound: items/r_item1.wav not precached
Phait
#5268 posted by than [220.47.234.129] on 2006/08/23 19:46:10
put a health pack somewhere in your map and it will precache the sound.
This should be the case with any sound you want to use, so if you want to use a fiend grunt sound you need a fiend in the map.
Maybe Preach has a special hack for precaching sounds though :)
Precaching
#5269 posted by Preach [217.44.221.220] on 2006/08/24 04:45:51
Afraid not, there's no way to precache an arbitary sound or model in the original qc. Which is a bit of a pain as you could do all sorts of interesting things like mapmodels if there was, but all the precaches are explicitly specified. So yeah, that sound is the rotten health pack sound, change it to whichever sound you find suitable.
Camera Work
#5270 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.117] on 2006/08/30 11:10:55
Does anybody know how to improve the terribly jerky ending sequence of Dissolution of Eternity?
I've only been able to improve it by reducing camera tracking updates by angle comparisons and a timer.
The Problem(unhelpful Post Alert)
#5271 posted by Preach [217.44.221.204] on 2006/08/30 11:50:50
As I understand it, the problem is that quake angle updates on entities are only sent out as a single byte, which gives you poor precision, lower precision than a single degree in fact. You might want to speak to the SDA guys, as angle turns seem much smoother in their setpiece demos(like the credits sequence for the easy 100% run they released at Qexpo). So if there's any way around it I guess they know it.
I've Heard Of
#5272 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.217] on 2006/08/30 12:30:06
such protocol limitations too and I'm sure it's correct.
However, I don't think that's the problem here as this is not a demo; the camera entity updates the view in discrete steps (following nextthink 0.1) and it doesn't seem to help to make the steps smaller either.
My hope was that there'd be a way to make the camera pan the scene like a player turns. Otherwise maybe the easiest fix is to just update slower, thus making the camera work steadier.
Btw, what is the formula for calculating where an entity will be shortly according to its current origin and speed/direction?
Smooth Turning
#5273 posted by Preach [81.153.71.109] on 2006/08/30 19:49:38
I'm pretty sure the problem isn't present so much in demos, and only appears real-time cutscenes such as this, becuase a fixed path for a camera has to be sent out from the server(which has the progs.dat) to the client, and so uses the network protocol. Demos record a client's perspective so maybe they can get higher precision that way. I know that one of the selling points for proquake was that it had "double" precision on aiming, ie two bytes, which makes a noticable difference for aiming rockets etc. I'd expect the same would be true on camera things, so the system would be limited more by update rate(the nextthink).
If you get round the protocol limitations then the way to ensure a smooth update is to use PlayerPreThink or PlayerPostThink as they get called each frame. Have a flag set when the player is watching from a camera that needs to update angles, and call the angle setting function from one of these functions whenever the flag is set. I still don't think it'll help more than a little without the protocol changes though...
The latter is easier to solve, for constant speed you want
entity.origin + (entity.velocity * delta)
where delta is the amount of time into the future you want to predict. If you only have a scalar speed and direction vector, go for
entity.origin + (normalise(ent_dir) * ent_speed * delta)
Use makevectors to get ent_dir if the direction is given as an angle. The first one will probably suffice in most circumstances though.
Thanks For The
#5274 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.112] on 2006/08/31 03:17:54
suggestions. I actually tried the first variant with velocity, but for this "actor", the velocity was 0 all the time. Several other properties were also 0, I don't know why.
The only thing that seemed to work was to manually save the origin into oldorigin and also previous camera angle and time into global vars. Then use this to calculate direction (yaw) and check for substantial angle (>45) or time (>2) difference and only update view then.
If you want to check out the original code, it's in ending.qc in the doe_qc.zip (any idgames2 mirror). I can also upload my variant if you want to check it out.
I've also checked several engines for different behaviour and they all seem to work the same way, except Tomaz (which crashes on the r2m8 map) and DP (where the actor can't find its way into the timepod and therefore is forever lost in dragon's lair ... ;)
Demos Use A Single Byte For Angles Too
#5275 posted by mwh [82.32.6.72] on 2006/08/31 04:57:34
The differences between the demo format and the network protocol are very mild, and mostly to do with the packaging, not the content (AIUI).
I made the smooth turn in the qd100qlite2 credits just by writing a python script to write a remaic cam file that contained loads (100 per second or something) of move commands and feeding that to remaic -- no magic here (the recam e1m7 was done in the same way too).
Something that's very definitely the case is that the rules are different during normal play and during the intermission -- this is why the credits are centerprinted and not part of a finale text. Applying the above tricks to an demo that had a finale looked very strange -- jerking all over. If someone can explain how to get rid of _that_, I'd be very interested :-)
Demos Use A Single Byte For Angles Too
#5276 posted by mwh [82.32.6.72] on 2006/08/31 05:52:55
The differences between the demo format and the network protocol are very mild, and mostly to do with the packaging, not the content (AIUI).
I made the smooth turn in the qd100qlite2 credits just by writing a python script to write a remaic cam file that contained loads (100 per second or something) of move commands and feeding that to remaic -- no magic here (the recam e1m7 was done in the same way too).
Something that's very definitely the case is that the rules are different during normal play and during the intermission -- this is why the credits are centerprinted and not part of a finale text. Applying the above tricks to an demo that had a finale looked very strange -- jerking all over. If someone can explain how to get rid of _that_, I'd be very interested :-)
Actors
#5277 posted by Preach [81.153.71.134] on 2006/08/31 07:04:07
I'm guessing the problem is the actor is like a monster, so it's using walkmove/MOVETYPE_STEP to move instead of velocity. This makes it a lot harder to predict, as basically it can move different amounts each animation frame. Also, in standard engines the entity will literally jump position each time a new frame is called. In engines with motion interpolation, the model itself is interpolated smoothly between points, but I believe that the origin still moves in discrete steps.
Anyhow, I'll take a look at the doe ending.qc and see what can be done, and if you would upload your version I'll examine that too.
mwh, your comments are encouraging, although I had worried that the demo format had the same restrictions. I guess as long as the camera isn't trying to do a fixed position pan, and you keep the movement smooth with velocity code or updates tied to PlayerPreThink you can get something as smooth. Can't help you with the finale problem though, very odd stuff. We need an engine coder in here...
OK
#5278 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.49] on 2006/08/31 07:19:07
I've uploaded my variant (progs + ending.qc) here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/doe... . Thanks for looking at it.
CZG Curve Tutorial
#5279 posted by DaZ [80.41.159.249] on 2006/08/31 16:24:12
does anyone have a hard copy? Please mail it to me if you do!
Well, Not Really
#5280 posted by bambuz [213.169.25.226] on 2006/09/01 15:26:47
but I have a placeholder at
http://skynet.campus.luth.se/~chos...
in the mean time.
Boss Monsters
#5281 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/09/01 23:41:15
I am looking for a decent, or at least different, Boss Monster for my non-base style QSP1 level.
I will need qc source, not just a model. Any suggestions?
Mike,
#5282 posted by HeadThump [65.140.56.96] on 2006/09/02 00:47:44
There is one I'm partial too that I have not seen used in a released map yet, the zombie master from Custents.
Where's My Manners --
#5283 posted by HeadThump [65.140.56.96] on 2006/09/02 00:55:27
in case you don't have the link --
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
Skill Selector Buttons?
#5284 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/02 05:07:16
Is it possible to create skill selector buttons like on coagstart in the Coagula contest without QuakeC?
I haven't had any luck having a button target a trigger_setskill that uses a targetname.
;)
#5285 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/02 05:21:00
Nevermind, apparently so!
? But I Can't Get It Work?
#5286 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/02 06:03:57
I'm trying to set up buttons to select a skill level (Easy, Normal, Hard, etc.) and a similar setup in cogstart.bsp functions without the progs.dat, so it seems like it should be possible to do without QuakeC, but it doesn't seem to work for me.
I setup a func_button, set the target name to "skilleasy" and a message of "Skill set to easy". I setup a trigger_setskill, set the skill level (message = {0,1,2,3}) and set the targetname to "skilleasy."
I push the button and it doesn't change the skill level (still is skill "1", the default).
I've checked everything 3 times, I've even dumped the .bsp source and compared to cogstart.bsp.
Is there a secret to this or something obvious I am missing?
Hehe
#5287 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/02 07:00:52
I decompiled cogstart and took a look at it in a map editor. That was hilarious!
Those buttons are merely psychological, they don't actually do anything meaningful (they don't select the skill), the trigger is the proximity.
Baker
#5288 posted by . [69.217.62.118] on 2006/09/02 14:23:36
Thats what I was thinking.
HeadThump
#5289 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/09/02 15:18:59
Thanks, it looks good and there's quite a lot more in there besides the monsters.
Anyone any other suggestions?
Repost, W00t!
#5290 posted by Girvo [203.45.179.183] on 2006/09/04 23:17:30
Hi there :)
I have been playing around with the DarkPlaces engine, and I must say that I quite like it. I began working on a mini mod called SlaughterHouse, which all it really did was change the weapons and how they dealt damage (homing rockets, exploding nailgun bullets, sped up shotgun).
After completing that, I thought I'd start on something more adverturous: A Counter-Strike clone (or something similar). Now, I can add in new weapons, change the gameplay and thigns like that. But, I have no real clue when it comes to modelling for Quake/DP. I can model fairly well in 3ds Max 5/7/8 (and then export to 3ds to be imported into Blender, which supposedly I can use to make Q1 models), but I do not know how a model is supposed to be done for Quake/DP. Are there any resources that I should check out?
Also, this mod adds in a heap of new items and weapons. Rather than changing existing ones, I created some from scratch. I can map fairly well for Half-Life using WorldCraft, but I have never tried mapping for a Quake MOD. I can map okay for Vanilla Quake, using the Qoole editor, but I cannot work out how to get it to work with mods which add in new items/weapons. Can I do that in Qoole, or will I need to change editors? If so, what to?
Thanks heaps :)
-Girvo
Girvo
#5291 posted by DaZ [80.41.185.63] on 2006/09/05 02:46:31
Do yourself a HUGE favour and download a copy of worldcraft 1.6 or valve hammer and use that for Quake 1 mapping, Qoole is the ugliest and worst editor on the planet :D
To add in a custom item/monster/gun whatever to worldcraft, just add any point entity you want to the map, then open the properties for it and you can just type in anything you want into the "classname" field, replacing the entity you created initially. Easy as pie! Then you can use the "smartedit" function to add in any custom key/value pairs you have coded for it.
Good luck
Models
#5292 posted by Preach [81.153.25.16] on 2006/09/05 03:37:00
I'm gonna shamelessly pimp my own work here, if you want a guide to modelling for Q1 then this is a start:
http://qexpo.quakedev.com/booth.ph...
This suggests a different route to making a Q1 model, using gmax and quark. At the time of writing, I didn't know that gmax had been discontinued. You can still download it, and with a bit of trouble get it registered, but the process is involved enough that it should go into the guide. Really I want to tidy the whole thing up with things like that, but it's a task for another day.
Anyhow, there's some useful information there, but if you're using 3ds max, you might as well stick with that. If you can export to md3 in gmax you certainly can with the full version of max, and then do the conversion in quark like in there. The plugin you want can be found at http://www.quake3bits.com/htm/tool...
As for the editor stuff, I'm sure everyone will say change from qoole. I started with qoole too, trust them when they say it'll cause you problems.
Yeah
#5293 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/09/05 06:11:38
If you're already using Worldcraft 3 for Half-Life, you might as well use Worldcraft 1.6 for Quake.
Does anyone have a download link for him?
Wc 1.6
#5294 posted by Baker [67.149.145.114] on 2006/09/05 06:36:59
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?...
http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy....
Hm
#5295 posted by Ankh [212.121.135.226] on 2006/09/05 06:44:44
You can also use Worldcraft 3 (or Hammer) for quake editing. All you need to do is to get a fgd file for quake (for example from czg http://czg.leveldesign.org/q/Quake...
You can edit that fgd file to add any new entities I guess.
Why I Used Qoole....
#5296 posted by Girvo [203.94.188.15] on 2006/09/05 15:33:58
I started using Qoole, as I have my entire editing kit (Quake included) running directly off a 128mb thumb drive :P
Worldcraft 1.6 looks perfect, so I am gonna go get that :)
Thanks for the modelling tutorial, its really helpful :)
Killable Model - ?
#5297 posted by ijed [201.236.134.67] on 2006/09/07 14:03:12
I want to place a killable model in a map, basicly you hit it until it fires a trigger. Unfortunately I have to do this without any coding - I'm running under Qouth. My first idea was to either export the model as geometry and import it to the map with a trigger + health value, (seem to remember an exporter capable of this) or else replace (rename) an existing model with the one I want (one I'm not using) and do the same. But these seem cumbersome methods to achieve the effect. I'm not using the fish enemy, which is an almost ideal candidate for model replacement, except as far as I remember fish die when not in water ;P
So basicly I'd like to know if there's a way to get a model to show up in a map - it doesn't need to do anything at all, not animations or anything (since I can reexport to remove animations if need be).
This is a preexperimentation question, so thanks for any feedback.
Alloc_hunc Again
#5298 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/11 14:13:06
I'm mapping with a quark65 a Quake1 map.
It has 194 ent, 151 lights, 1128 polyhedrons.
Use the latest compilers Txbsp1.12 Vis2.30 Light1.42
No warnings. Plays fine in Fitzquake.
I add some polyhedrons and it compiles fine again, but as soon as it starts Fitzquake I receive a Alloc_hunc failure.
I thought this only happened when one uses more than 620 ent?
What happened?
I Ment
#5299 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/11 14:19:01
Alloc Block : full
Alloc Block : Full
#5300 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/09/11 14:39:21
This is caused by lightmaps. Ways to solve this:
1. Reduce total surface area of your level. Each square meter of wall/floor/ceiling/etc. needs lightmap space, so reducing surface area will reduce lightmap needs. (For example, if your map leaks and you have it inside a giant box, closing the leak with make a huge difference becuase the giant box can be deleted.)
2. Scale up textures on large surfaces. Lightmap usage is based on texture scale, so if the texture is scaled up on a surface, the polygons will use a smaller amount of lightmap. For example, if you have large rock walls, scaling up can help.
3. Usemore of the textures that don't need lightmaps. For example, sky doesn't need lightmaps, so if you have a room with a ceiling, changing the ceiling to be open sky will reduce the amount of lightmaps needed.
-
#5301 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/09/11 16:42:21
i think, because of the relatively small size of the map, it could be you have an infinite brush...
Thanx For Your Reply
#5302 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/11 16:57:46
I tried selveral things, adding less brushes,
scaled textures.
I read Aguires tooltips for the thing, and it says it are too many lightmaps.
There is no leak, or warnings so I can't change a thing.
I had this thing earlier, and then it helped with the new Tyrlight.
Now it seems a thing of # many vertexes?
fil02078 goes well, fil02080 don't.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/fil02...
Found It!
#5303 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/11 20:04:55
Scaling up textures indeed made it go again.
Thanks, thought I had to stop mapping.
#5304 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/09/12 00:28:18
:) i got many pronlems becouse of textures rotacion... give me leaks :\ then i have to make then other way!!!
MadFox
#5305 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.169] on 2006/09/12 02:42:48
The problem isn't the tex scale; you have huge textured planes outside the map that eat lightmaps to no end. Change your geometry so they can be filled (removed) by qbsp.
Trinca
#5306 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/09/12 03:43:01
Texture, and particularly brush rotation have to be handled carefully in QuArk. Each time you make a brush rotation, you have to check the coordinates of each corners and verify they are still on-grid: it can be done right clicking, and use the 'force to grid' command.
JPL
#5307 posted by Spirit [80.171.40.4] on 2006/09/12 04:12:02
Woah, I didn't know that command. Maybe I can do some serious mapping with QuArK now! :)
#5308 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/09/12 05:20:56
thks JPL ;)
#5309 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/09/12 05:30:49
Spirit_ go make a base map :p
I Forgot To Say.....
#5310 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/09/12 05:57:40
That it is also possible to fix coordinates values manually by right-clicking on a brush corner, then uses 'coordinates'.. A window will open showing the current coordinates, and it can be modified manually...
It is also possibe to apply both methods (i.e post#5306 and above method) on the brush itself: it will apply to the "center" of the brush, but I cannot garanty it will help on the corners coordiantes as the geometry is preserved there..
According to my "small experience" as QuArK user, it is safer to apply this to each corner.. ;)
Oh, and don't forget to adjust texture position after that :P
Thanks
#5311 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/12 13:53:55
I have scaled all poly textures outside the map 4 4.
Now there isn't any problem to play it in Fitzquake.
Madfox
#5312 posted by bambuz [213.169.26.216] on 2006/09/12 14:18:00
seriously, do you have the map in a box? Do the walls right and you don't need that box.
I Did The Walls Right
#5313 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/13 16:19:08
but I box wrong.
May Be Of Interest
#5314 posted by HeadThump [65.145.245.87] on 2006/09/13 20:45:42
Quake3bits has about three hours of video material linked from youtube to Quake3bits. Lessons concentrate on creating terrain in the Blender 3d modeling ap for use in Id based games.
http://www.quake3bits.com/htm/tuto...
Mangle Key
#5315 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/09/15 15:53:25
It's late, I'm tired; someone explain the 'mangle' key for me one more time.
0 -90 0 points straight down I know.
If I am looking at the XY view i.e. Top Down, what is the mangle for a light to shine towards 6 o'clock dead-level?
I seem to remember a 'right-hand' rule to explain it?
Yaw Pitch Roll
#5316 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/09/15 18:41:15
or yaw pitch roll... i think.
For Lights?
#5317 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/09/15 21:07:47
It's yaw pitch zero. The third number is just a place holder in TyrLite.
RPG
#5318 posted by Bal [81.249.6.219] on 2006/09/16 02:06:38
The third number is still really roll as metl said, but obviously rolling a light has no effect whatsoever on it.
Bal
#5319 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/09/16 09:44:23
I have no if you're technically right and if Tyrann included computations for rolling the light, but let me copy and paste from the TyrLite readme because I want to wave my dick and show everyone that I'm always right.
"mangle" "# # 0". The first # is the yaw angle, 0 to 360 degrees around the Z-axis. The second # is the pitch angle, 90 to -90 degrees up to down. The 0 is just a required placeholder.
BTW I wonder if it's possible to roll a light if you're on an acid trip?
R.P.G.
#5320 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/09/16 10:06:41
Thanks, that's what I was after.
And I now know that zero degrees yaw is at 3 o'clock, and zero degrees pitch is level.
Barrel Model
#5321 posted by maxpower [70.92.240.75] on 2006/09/18 18:21:11
I have this barrel in .blend from a friend, i want someone to convert this to .mdl, thanks.
Exporters Are Built Into Blender
#5322 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.87] on 2006/09/18 18:49:28
take the blend file, save it to either a 3ds, lwo or dxf format, from there import that file into Qme.
Both blender and Qme can be found linked here:
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Oh, And
#5323 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.87] on 2006/09/18 18:52:58
if you need custom game code, a progs.dat file that handles model inclusion so you can test the barrel in game this is as small an example as you are likely to find.
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Make That Last Link
#5324 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.87] on 2006/09/18 19:05:02
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
#5325 posted by maxpower [70.92.240.75] on 2006/09/18 19:23:11
Well i didnt make it my friend did, and thats all he said he'll do.
Hmm, Blender Interface
#5326 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.87] on 2006/09/18 19:50:25
can be tricky for someone not familar with it, so you can send me the file and I'll convert it.
My address is in here: http://www.celephais.net/board/peo...
Better Conversion
#5327 posted by Preach [217.44.219.174] on 2006/09/19 05:47:31
You'd be better off using one of the blender md2/md3 exporter plugins, and then use quark to convert md2(or md3) to mdl. That way you preserve the UV mapping. Alternatively exporting to 3ds and then importing that into gmax gives another suitable conversion path.
Some day I'll get around to writing a mdl exporter for blender...
It Should Work
#5328 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.79] on 2006/09/19 06:34:01
for a single frame md2 conversion, but the MD2 exporter is highly unrecommended by most Blender/Quake users. Multiframe animation exports produce some jawdropping distortions in the vertices.
Addedum
#5329 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.14] on 2006/09/19 07:45:15
I would likely consider this simply a problem in the integer/floating point translation of md2 and if you carefully built the models on the grid you should get good results, but this isn't the case here. It is possible to take the very same model that you converted to md2 that results in a distorted model and process it frame by frame into 3ds files and rebuild it frame by frame in Quark and save it to md2 in Quark and the results will be undistorted. So most likely, the problem lies in the md2 importer.
Should Read
#5330 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.142] on 2006/09/19 07:58:19
save it to md2 in Quark
save it to md3 in Npherno and then import it into Quark ;)
Animations
#5331 posted by Preach [217.44.219.174] on 2006/09/19 09:29:24
If the 3ds files are accurate, you can just export each animation frame as one of those, and use the MD2 for just a single base pose. Convert the MD2 to MDL format, then import the rest of the frames into QMe as 3ds flies. As long as you've got a model with the same topology as your blender model in mdl format, you can import extra frames in 3ds format to QMe without a problem. The only caveat is that the triangle order mustn't be changed, or you'll get a mess.
Preach
#5332 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/19 16:36:11
I was trying your model tutorial, and used a newboss tyoe. To my surprise this was the first time I saw the creature in Quake.
But there must be an error in the qc file.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/newbo...
*** newboss.qc:18:Unknown value "newboss_stand2"
I'm desparatly dequoted to qc!
Madfox And Newboss
#5333 posted by Preach [81.152.233.230] on 2006/09/20 04:00:27
The error means that you're calling the function newboss_stand2 before it's been declared. Because the function newboss_stand2 is further down the QC file than newboss_stand1, the compiler doesn't know that newboss_stand2 is a function. So it gets confused and stops compiling.
The way to fix this is normally to make what is called a prototype. This means putting the following line above the function newboss_stand1
void() newboss_stand2;
This looks a bit like the start of the definition of the newboss_stand2 function, but it doesn't have the function code itself. It warns the compiler we are planning to have a function called newboss_stand2 without defining it yet.
Having said all that, if you try this fix, you'll find that another error strikes, it will tell you that there is already a function called newboss_stand1. This is because you've included two versions in the qc file. Both of these functions do the same thing, but one of them is newboss_stand1 in the shorthand format:
void() newboss_stand1 = [ $stand1, newboss_stand2 ] {ai_stand();};
So delete the first one and leave the quoted one only. Then compile away and it should work.
You may now notice that all the stuff I wrote in the second paragraph seems to be contradicted, as the functions newboss_stand2, newboss_stand3 etc are all calling the following function without prototyping it. This is in fact the last benefit of the shorthand way of writing frame functions, it automatically prototypes the function self.think is set to. This is obviously useful as it allows you to write all the frames in the order they should play without having to prototype everything by hand. I omitted to mention this in the tutorial as I felt explaining prototypes would be too much digression.
Thanks!
#5334 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/20 14:09:48
for your answer. I tried with my poor understanding in qc to do as you said.
And indeed the newboss_stand2 gave me a new error.
Also deleting the first one brought me back to another error.
So I compared it with knight.qc and then I had this newboss.qc
http://members.home.nl/gimli/newbo...
The only thing it changed it has no errors, but shows newboss at it's first frame. In some way it won't loop to the next frame.
Hurray!
#5335 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/20 15:21:56
This one seems to work, although it is quiet a miracle to me, why I first have to shoot to make it animate.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/newbo...
For the rest it works fine!
YippY
YippY
#5336 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/09/20 16:30:28
That rocks
Imagine
#5337 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/20 17:06:06
a bulking reddwarf in a remote attack move that only starts shooting if I start...
sportive , but I can't kill it without making it flipping in it's start position.
Freezeframe
#5338 posted by Preach [81.153.27.227] on 2006/09/20 20:33:42
The reason why your monster freezes until you shoot it takes us on a long tour of the quake AI library. The source of the problem is that the monster spots you right away and so wakes up. However, since it has no attack or run animation yet, it stalls. If you turn on notarget before the monster sees you, you'll find that it animates just fine until disturbed.
So why does it behave differently once you shoot it? Well, it's all about how you change animations. One way of changing a monster's animation is to directly call a frame function like:
newboss_attack1();
or
self.th_missile();
This changes the current frame, and sets a new .think, so the previous animation is interrupted.
If self.th_missile is SUB_Null, then .think is unchanged, so the monster will continue with whatever animation it was doing before, like idleing.
The other way to change an animation is to just change the monster's .think field, like
self.think = self.th_run;
This means the current animation frame is held until the monster thinks again, but then it switches to the new animation. The problem is that if self.th_run is SUB_Null, it's already overwritten the next animation, so the monster freezes.
So as you may have guessed, waking up a monster changes its animation in the second way, the function to blame is HuntTarget in ai.qc. The reason monsters keep going is that their frame functions are always supposed to keep setting another think time and function. If you ever break the chain the monster gets stuck. .th_pain is called whenever damage is taken, which gives a way to kickstart the monster again. By this time the monster is already aware of the player, and so HuntTarget is not called again.
Of course, once the monster is finished it will have a th_run function, and so the problem will fix itself.
Stand Up Frag
#5339 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/20 21:31:05
To my surprise the newboss started animating fine, when I turned it around to give myself the chance for notarget.
And stopped when it spotted me.I suppose this should be the moment to make it
shoot a missile, and as there is no code it freezes.
After all my efforts I end up backwards, I had a freezing monster I could shoot alive, now I've got one that freezes in my sight.
I have made a somewhat different qc than in your tutorial, as I couldn't get the error log away.
But now I get a monster what dies as a stand up.I can't find a cause for this. It looks as the animation makes it attack, hurt and finally die with a strange eight frames to make it stand1 again.
I apreciate your patience to explain so clearfully the qc-code. Two days before I couldn't even believe such a thing could spawn into Quake.
I posted the newboss.qc again, maybe you can find the error?
Hmmm
#5340 posted by Preach [213.120.158.227] on 2006/09/21 03:30:51
Can you post or e-mail me the newboss.mdl file, so I can take a better look? I've tried compiling with a substitute model, but to try and find what's wrong with the animations I'd need to see the actual thing.
Also, don't worry that the qc file has changed from the one in the tutorial. That was actually my hope for the set of tutorials, that there'd be enough information that people could fill in the rest of their monster by comparing with the original quake monster files. The file as presented in the tutorial is certainly incomplete, and only really useful for previewing the animation.
Alright
#5341 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/21 10:27:51
after working on for houres, I came up to this point, an animating newboss, without defend, freezing in its last stand frame.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/bos.d...
Frame Macros
#5342 posted by Preach [81.152.233.136] on 2006/09/21 15:47:09
The first problem I see is that the order of the frame macros in the qc file doesn't match up with the order in the model. You need to have the frames in the same order in both. This is because quake doesn't read the names of the frames at all, it only reads the numbers. The frame names are purely to make the code readable, and the compiler just assumes that, eg. the 16th frame you list in the qc file is also the 16th frame in the model.
So rewrite the frame macro definition to:
$frame stand1 stand2 stand3 stand4 stand5 stand6 stand7 stand8
$frame attack1 attack2 attack3 attack4 attack5 attack6 attack7 attack8
$frame die1 die2 die3 die4 die5 die6 die7 die8 die9 die10 die11 die12
$frame hurt1 hurt2 hurt3 hurt4
and the death/pain animation should be fixed.
If you want to stop it freezing and instead react when it sees you, try setting
self.th_run = newboss_attack1;
in the spawn function. Also, if you don't want that stand animation to loop like it does, change the last stand frame function to
void() newboss_stand8 = [ $stand8, newboss_stand8 ] {ai_stand();};
Notice that this is newboss_stand8, and the nextthink is also newboss_stand8 - it calls itself. That way it freezes, but not in the same way, it's still thinking every frame, just not changing. I don't think this change would work well for an actual monster as it is, but it's something to experiment with.
Yeah!
#5343 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/21 18:30:22
I'm really knocked out by the fact for overseeing such a small logical factor.
For houres I stared the qc file, and the only thing I could find was another newboss.mdl in my progsfile with a base texture skin0 frame.
But this is great! Like with the rat it puzzled me so long what could make these monsters go. Again, thanks for your explanation.
Think I'll make me some extra frames for the stand animation.
I used a MOVETYPE_NONE to see if the monster should stand, but it seems to shamble away.
Moving
#5344 posted by Preach [81.153.24.36] on 2006/09/22 03:39:05
At the moment, it's the ai_charge(10) lines which are moving the monster, as that instructs the monster to move 10 quake units towards its enemy. ai_charge(0) would stop it moving there. You don't need to make it MOVETYPE_NONE, but if you do it shouldn't move at all. I don't think it will drop to the ground when spawned if you do that though, so be careful.
Bosstype
#5345 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/22 21:54:12
As it is a boss type in a lava suit it don't need to move. What I need now is a way to defend itself. Like giving it a missile to shoot.
I searched on Inside3d to look for some code to make it shoot. And although I found a lot of other fun stuff, the ai code soon made me aiai.
I Think
#5346 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/09/22 23:53:43
probably the easiest way would be to just use the ai_run routine but with 0 distance, because ai_run does all the useful things like checking attacks and whatever. cheap hack, but it works. :)
Yeah
#5347 posted by Preach [81.153.30.21] on 2006/09/23 04:07:54
I agree with necros on that one.
As for making the missile attack, I'd look at the code for the enforcer, as it has a fairly basic attack. The important functions are
Laser_Touch : This is what the missile should do when it touches something. The entity it touches is called "other", so you can see the function deals 15 damage to other.
LaunchLaser: This spawns the laser, sets it up visually, sends it in the right direction and speed, and sets its touch to Laser_Touch.
enforcer_fire: This works out where to fire the laser from and which direction to fire it in, then calls LaunchLaser.
enf_atk1 - enf_atk14: These are the frame functions that animate the model. Notice how functions 7 and 11 call enforcer_fire, for the double shot the enforcer fires.
You should also note that the enforcer's th_missile is set to enf_atk1. If a monster has a call to the function ai_run, it will evaluate whether it has a shot at the player, and if it does will call it's th_missile. If it doesn't have one then this does nothing, but if it does then it'll change animation and start firing. Try mimicking this at first to get a working projectile, then adjust it to make a more suitable boss attack(more damage, harder to dodge). Don't forget that you can use the same frame in several frame functions, so newboss_attack1 can have the frame $attack1.
Well
#5348 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/23 14:33:43
That explains a lot.
Sad I don't get the other side of the qc surroundings, as I could imagine for what these resulting scripting is relaying on.
I tried pasting the enforcer's qc into the newboss, but as I expected, it results in a
***enforcer.qc:42: Laser Touch redeclared
***enforcer.qc:105:LaunchLaser redeclared
I also made The Mage from 3Dinside, and although the qc scripts was totally different, it worked straightaway I wanted.
For me its pure magic how these different qc scripts obtain these effects!
I reckognize the functions of these declarings Laser_touch, but as soon as I use a void() opening a script I get redrawn by wrong punctuation.
While The Mage relays on 75% of the Vormit, it is still an Unique_New Model.
Rename The Function
#5349 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.38] on 2006/09/23 14:55:33
in the newboss.qc, Laser_Touch to something like
boss_Touch wherever Laser_Touch appears in that file. You could just place the Newboss.qc after the enforcer.qc in the progs.src and remove the declarations in Newboss.qc, but since you are going to be changing the attributes of the function you might as well start with a new one.
Vis Crash, Or Just My Imagination?
#5350 posted by Orl [71.226.230.220] on 2006/09/23 15:39:40
Has anyone ever has vis crash while it was working? I ask this because, I have been full vising this one map for... 3 weeks now and it is still working on the same portal, for 3 weeks! I dont know if it crashed, or if its still working. And, would loading a map that has vis working on it disrupt vis, or make it crash or something? This is just getting ridiculous. I am using aguiRes latest utilites.
Orl
#5351 posted by Tyrann [202.45.120.45] on 2006/09/23 19:43:46
If the map is complex enough, it is definitely plausable to be stuck on a single portal that long.
Orl
#5352 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.243] on 2006/09/24 03:10:08
Make sure vis is still running at full speed, check with Task Manager. Some OSs may pause the running application if you use the keyboard or mouse on the open console window.
It *is* unusual to be stuck in one portal for three weeks though, the longest time I've had was a few days. But so far it has always come through (at least on level 4).
How many leafs/portals do you have and how far has vis come?
AguiRe
#5353 posted by Orl [70.104.89.85] on 2006/09/24 11:35:04
From what I see in the task manager, vis appears to be running. It's taking up 50% of my CPU, and every once in awhile its mem usage goes up by a few K. Sorry, I do not know how many leafs/portals I have in my map, how may I go about checking? But I will tell you, vis is at 61.61% done so far. And, is vis saving its progress while its working on this portal, or only in between portals?
Hmm
#5354 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.179] on 2006/09/24 12:14:02
Why only 50%, normally it should be almost 100, do you have a dual CPU?
#leafs/portals is printed at the first lines of the console/log file and you can also see it in the .prt file (just a text file).
Unfortunately, vis is not saving while working on a portal, only in between them. You can see the last save time on the file date/time stamp of the .vis file.
Also, there's a rough progress bar for slow portals, has it moved lately?
Yeah
#5355 posted by Orl [70.104.89.85] on 2006/09/24 13:51:40
I do have a dual CPU, which is a good because I can do other things while vis is running. According to the log, I have 4500 portalleafs and 15354 numportals.
And that rough progress bar you mentioned, it started at "--". It has not moved since.
OK
#5356 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.30] on 2006/09/24 15:27:41
Then there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong, you just have an extremely unfortunate map from a vis perspective.
Either you'll have to sweat it out, or abort and try to find out what's causing this problem. You might want to try to add -v (verbose) and run again, vis will restart that portal.
My latest vis version will print out the coordinates for each portal *before* it starts processing it and you can then use this to find the portal.
The coordinates are taken from one of the vertices of the portal and should hopefully help you locate it. Just note that a portal can be very small or big, so it might be difficult to pinpoint it.
50%
#5357 posted by metlslime [69.181.0.109] on 2006/09/24 22:14:46
Why only 50%, normally it should be almost 100, do you have a dual CPU?
I heard somewhere that CPUs with "hyperthreading" technology can't give more than 50% of the CPU time to any one process. At least I think that's what I heard; it's been a while.
Correction
#5358 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.211] on 2006/09/26 14:47:00
My latest vis doesn't print the coordinates for the current portal in verbose mode; it prints the portal number. You can then use that to find the corresponding coordinates from the prt file (see also readme).
All the vertices of the portal are visible on the prt file line for that portal.
You can even do this check while vis continues to run. Just copy the bsp/prt/vis files to another directory and start a new vis session from there with the -v option and abort when you see the portal number.
Metl
#5359 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.184] on 2006/09/27 04:15:21
I think that's just an indication issue; I read an article that also noticed this and they checked processing times and they were OK. Otherwise the hyperthreading tech is more stupid than it has any right to be ...
Invisible Faces
#5360 posted by negke [82.82.191.191] on 2006/09/27 04:55:37
like this: http://negative.net.tc/images/fitz...
how to get rid of them again? already tried changing the brushes, splitting them up, but to no avail. any universial remedy?
From The Shot
#5361 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.97] on 2006/09/27 05:53:01
it looks like either a brush problem (if it's like this before vis) or a portal problem. The cause is similar; bad brush junctions.
Zoom in close to see if they're on grid and also check neighbour brushes, sometimes a brush can "poke a hole" in another brush.
If you still can't find the culprit, try deleting neighbour brushes until the issue goes away. One or more of the deleted brushes are then the likely cause.
See also my ToolTips, Portal Problems.
If all else fails, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it.
Shadow
#5362 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/27 11:44:27
After another session of my Q1map I see the light.exe produce a strange effect of dark and black shadows on my textures.
I didn't move one light, and before they were all smoothly lightened.
If You're Using
#5363 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.195] on 2006/09/27 12:22:24
my Light together with QuArK and its ETP map format, you could try adding the -etp option.
Yes
#5364 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/27 23:14:36
That helped a lot, I keep learning tnese compile optoins. Think I squashed the map by loading it in an older Quark version.
I have made a VoreBabe and a Vore-egg.
I've been changing the shalrat.qc so it throws vore-eggs. I also made a working VoreBabe model.
But I can't figure out how to make these two in a shalrat.qc The VoreBabe I made startgo with the Spellmaster.qc
So I pasted the Ogre_Grenade_Explode into the void() ShalMissileTouch;
and it worked, the Shalrat started to throw eggs. But I wanted the VoreBabes get out of them, and that is just to high for my qc.
When I give the eggs a lifetime of 4 seconds, for let's say 2 Vorebabes, the Shalrat throws much too often. If I ever get so far spawning them out of the egg.
Looks like a Shalrarebit...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/shalr...
Custom Animated Sprite
#5365 posted by . [69.217.62.118] on 2006/09/28 21:43:20
Realising Quake 1 supports animated (.SPR) sprites, and knowing you can place a light entity that appears as a sprite... I need to make a few steam sprites to put by broken pipes.
Making the sprite itself should be easy (and I see FrikaC has some tool that supports SPR, but I haven't tried it yet to see if it's capable of making a .SPR)...
But my main concern is, how can I make it an entity to place in the map? If anyone has anything ready-made that I can easily modify art-wise (I'm no coder, so I won't touch QC), that'd be great!
Yeah, I Do
#5366 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2006/09/29 01:59:49
I'm basically going to rip this code from mapgen, http://qexpo.quakedev.com/uploaded...
If you need a placeholder sprite and sound to use with this code, that's where to look. Drop all of this into the bottom of misc.qc.
//PREACH start func_steam code
void() steamp2 = [1 , steamp3]{};
void() steamp3 = [2 , SUB_Remove]{self.nextthink = time + 0.7;};
void() func_steam_think =
{
local entity steamp;
local vector r;
steamp = spawn();
setmodel (steamp, "progs/steam.spr");
setorigin (steamp, self.origin);
r = '0 6 0' * (random() - 0.5);
makevectors(self.mangle + r);
steamp.movetype = MOVETYPE_NOCLIP;
steamp.velocity = v_forward * self.speed;
steamp.nextthink = time + 0.1;
steamp.think = steamp2;
steamp.avelocity = '20 20 0';
self.nextthink = time + self.wait;
}
void() func_steam
{
precache_sound ("ambience/steam.wav");
precache_model( "progs/steam.spr");
if(self.targetname)
self.use = func_steam_think;
else
{
self.think = func_steam_think;
self.nextthink = time + 1;//no need to start straight off
}
if(!self.speed)
self.speed = 90;
if(!self.wait)
self.wait = 0.15;
ambientsound (self.origin, "ambience/steam.wav", 0.8, ATTN_STATIC);
};
//PREACH end func_steam code
Then create a point entity func_steam. The fields to set are
mangle: sets the direction the steam fires
targetname: if set, must be triggered
wait: sets frequency of steampuffs, the default setting of 0.15 works well
speed: changes how fast the particles move. The default makes for a nice continuous stream of particles and a medium length.
Lines you might want to change:
void() steamp3 = [2 , SUB_Remove]{self.nextthink = time + 0.7;};
Change the 0.7 to change the lifetime of the sprite and so the length of the steam spray.
r = '0 6 0' * (random() - 0.5);
Controls how random the spray is, change the 6 to alter it.
The original mapgen code had a chunk of .alpha stuff which made the steam fade out, but I've omitted that as it's not the kind of thing mappers usually go for. If you want it, just ask and I'll write that back in.
[deleted Spam]
#5367 posted by Vallentino [83.229.92.5] on 2006/09/29 09:52:40
[deleted spam]
[deleted Spam]
#5368 posted by Vallentino [83.229.92.5] on 2006/09/29 09:53:38
[deleted spam]
[deleted Spam]
#5369 posted by Vallentino [83.229.92.5] on 2006/09/29 09:55:12
[deleted spam]
[deleted Spam]
#5370 posted by Vallentino [83.229.92.5] on 2006/09/29 09:57:03
[deleted spam]
[deleted Spam]
#5371 posted by Vallentino [83.229.92.5] on 2006/09/29 09:57:51
[deleted spam]
AguirRe
#5372 posted by negke [82.83.44.199] on 2006/09/29 11:57:37
thanks, i could get rid of it. there were no brush misalignments involved though.
Silly Question
#5373 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/30 12:10:32
how do you write in white?
my cheap htm knowings won't help.
Check The Faq
#5374 posted by negke [82.83.57.92] on 2006/09/30 12:32:44
< q > blah < /q >
MadFox
#5375 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.143] on 2006/09/30 12:35:24
Check out the FAQ link at the top of the page, there are descriptions how to add available forum text attributes. Use post Preview to make sure you've applied correctly.
Ahh, That Is What You Meant, Foxy
#5376 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.116] on 2006/09/30 13:05:28
I thought is what just some delicious word play on your part. I use < i > bleh < / i >
Fine
#5377 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/09/30 23:16:26
that's wahat I meant headthump, i still use a directionary to get ahead my tongue thumbed.
Mapping Advise
#5378 posted by Inf [86.87.153.239] on 2006/10/04 14:17:05
I'm interested in doing a Quake 1 map. Any advise on which editor to use?
Thanks
#5379 posted by Trinca [87.196.157.101] on 2006/10/04 16:12:00
there are a lot editor i think will depend of with one u will like more :\ i use Quark but most of people here hate it, and use worldcraft... i personaly hate it :) some prefer GTKradiant... neg|ke use qoole oh wel i think u should make a round in all to see with one is the easy to start!
Trinca:
#5380 posted by Inf [86.87.153.239] on 2006/10/04 16:28:56
I'm used to GtkRadiant 1.4.0 and D3Edit and Q4Edit. I take it I should go with GtkRadiant 1.5.0 for Quake then?
Not sure about which editor has the best support regarding sourceports and stuff.
Uhm...
#5381 posted by negke [82.83.31.159] on 2006/10/04 17:06:14
neg|ke uses quest by the way... (which, as per speeds, plays in the same league as deathmatchmaker ;D)
getting familiar with gtkradiant can't be wrong, i guess, since it works similar to most other editors and also supports a variety of newer games.
Inf
#5382 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/10/04 19:31:15
QTKRadiant 1.5 will have a different feel than the other versions, but it's the choice that I would recommend.
How To Set It Up For Quake?
#5383 posted by Inf [86.87.153.239] on 2006/10/05 02:36:41
Do any of you know how to set GtkRadiant 1.5.0 up for Quake. I can't seem to be able to use the assets that came with the game. Things like textures and stuff. Some Googling did not give me an answer either so I'm hoping some of you guys could.
Thanks.
Inf
#5384 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/10/05 02:51:44
Hit 'P' and bring up the Preference menu -- look over to the left, and see Global then gam in the list. Click on game for that section, and do the pulldown tab to select Quake from the list of games. Voila.
Mine you, you'll still need a .bat or something to compile your maps, and be sure to stick your .wads in the /id1 directory.
Inf
#5385 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/10/05 02:52:38
Hit 'P' and bring up the Preference menu -- look over to the left, and see Global then game in the list. Click on game for that section, and do the pulldown tab to select Quake from the list of games. Voila.
Mine you, you'll still need a .bat or something to compile your maps, and be sure to stick your .wads in the /id1 directory.
Inf
#5386 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/10/05 02:54:23
Hit 'P' and bring up the Preference menu -- look over to the left, and see Global then game in the list. Click on game for that section, and do the pulldown tab to select Quake from the list of games. Voila.
Mind you, you'll still need a .bat or something to compile your maps, and be sure to stick your .wads in the /id1 directory.
Inf
#5387 posted by Bazzu [195.249.230.57] on 2006/10/05 02:57:30
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
LOL, WTF.
#5388 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/10/05 02:58:47
For the love of Carmack, somebody fix this.
To Aguire
#5389 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2006/10/05 08:55:31
could you please include BSP feature that would move func_groups back to world on compile?
Newmonster
#5390 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/05 12:09:32
I've been working on a new monster. Made a new vorebabe.mdl and started scripting.
I used the spellmaster.qc but after a while I wondered why I couldn't make my own vorebabe.qc, as I needed it for a spawn function in the shallrath.qc
Now I am so far I can make it a walkmonster_start, but the attack functions won't work. I've been working for days now but it just won't fit.
I don't know what I done wrong, outcome is a progs.dat that don't attacks.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/newmo...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/voreb...
Func_groups
#5391 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.57] on 2006/10/05 12:40:25
OK, I've added a new option -group to TxQBSP 1.13 beta available here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/txq... . It enables func_group parsing, i.e. moving the brushes back to world.
Please try it out and let me know if it works as I'm not using Radiant.
Wads...
#5392 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/05 13:38:39
wad support in the latest nightly build is broken. so hopefully they fix it again.
I've got all my textures exported into id1/textures/ as jpegs
#5393 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/05 14:52:08
I've got all my textures exported into id1/textures/ as jpegs
How do you load them though? Are you using the latest ( october 1st ) build?
#5394 posted by Inf [86.87.153.239] on 2006/10/05 16:29:33
I tried several 1.5.0 builds and none of them seem to be able to show/load Quake textures.
I tried Tigger his method, what Bazzu suggested, but the editor crashes. Still working that out though. I would prefer not to use Tigger his method because it seems a bit uh...what's the word...unneccesary if you can simply have a editor doing all that for you. Instead of downloading and setting up lots of stuff.
Ofcourse I appreciate the suggestion and if it's the way to go, I'll use it. It's just that I prefer a editor specifically designed to work with Quake.
Attacks
#5395 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2006/10/05 16:48:24
The monster isn't attacking because none of the ai functions you call in your frame functions actually check for an attack. The normal quake monsters regularly call ai_run, which is the main ai thinking hub. ai_run should be the default action which you only stop using if you don't want the monster to get distracted during its animation - like if it's in pain or attacking or dead.
ai_run calls the function CheckAnyAttack, which determines if a missile attack can hit. If you find CheckAnyAttack in ai.qc, you can see there are lots of if statements that check if the monster is, for example, a shambler, and do the special shambler checkattack if it is. After those there is a generic checking function CheckAttack, which should suffice for your monster.
CheckAttack checks if you're in melee range, and if you are and you have a th_melee it calls that. If not, it checks for a missile attack based on the range to the target. The probability of attack is higher at certain ranges. If so and you have a th_missile, it calls that.
So the flow goes
ai_run -> CheckAnyAttack -> CheckAttack ->.th_missile
To fix the monster, simply add the following lines
void () vorebabe_run1 = [1, vorebabe_run2] {ai_run(1);};
void () vorebabe_run2 = [2, vorebabe_run3] {ai_run(4);};
void () vorebabe_run3 = [3, vorebabe_run4] {ai_run(3);};
void () vorebabe_run4 = [4, vorebabe_run5] {ai_run(5);};
void () vorebabe_run5 = [5, vorebabe_run6] {ai_run(6);};
void () vorebabe_run6 = [6, vorebabe_run7] {ai_run(4);};
void () vorebabe_run7 = [7, vorebabe_run8] {ai_run(4);};
void () vorebabe_run8 = [8, vorebabe_run9] {ai_run(3);};
void () vorebabe_run9 = [9, vorebabe_run10] {ai_run(5);};
void () vorebabe_run10 = [10, vorebabe_run1] {ai_run(6);};
You'll notice the similarity to the vorebaby_walk lines, but that we call ai_run not ai_walk, which is only designed for walking to path_corners. We are reusuing frames 1 through 10, which is allowed : - )
The final part of the fix is to change the line
self.th_run = vorebabe_walk1; to
self.th_run = vorebabe_run1;. Once he wakes up, his behaviour will change to vorebaby_run1, which will check for and call missile attacks.
One final thing I noticed is that the frame numbers you are calling in the code don't quite agree with the model. The frame numbers for the walk sequence in the model are 0,1,2...9, not 1,2,3...10 - the first frame in the model is frame number 0. I've not fixed this in the run code I posted, as frame 10 happens to look much like frame 0, so the animation loops. Perhaps it would be best to use the frame macros $walk1, $walk2 etc in the code rather than the numbers directly, as it's easier to number them correctly like that.
You'll need to fix the frame macro definitions first, take out the dollar signs in the names in the header(but NOT the main code where you add them back in). The first one should read
$frame walk1 walk2 walk3 walk4 walk5 walk6 walk7 walk8 walk9 walk10 with only the $frame retaining the dollar sign, and do the same for the rest of the header. But when you use it in the frame function you put the dollar sign back in, eg:
void () vorebabe_run1 = [$walk1, vorebabe_run2] {ai_run(1);};
Hope that's clear.
Kell:
#5396 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/05 17:22:57
How do you load them though? Are you using the latest ( october 1st ) build?
I load them by opening another map that uses them (sad but true.)
And yes, i am using the october 1st build...
Thanks A Lot!
#5397 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/05 20:16:39
preach, although I have read most of the qc files now, I still can't see the logic relations between them, but I'm learning.
I saw the nummers of frames once start with 0 and then with 1. I couldn't get the death frame right, it always jumped back to the stand frame. So I added a death frame and then it didn't occure.
I experimented with pasting parts of the monster attacks into it, but kept errors (of course). Now I can tune it better in.
Host Error
#5398 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/05 21:24:17
After I made the changes I can't start Quake.
CALL0 : 1455 (?)
ai.qc : ai_run
vorebabe.qc : vorebabe_run1
NO FUNCTION
I think I have made no definition for the ai_run, but I don't know how.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/voreb...
And I Run...
#5399 posted by Preach [131.111.8.103] on 2006/10/06 01:05:36
The problem is now too much running. When a monster calls ai_run but doesn't have a target, as happens when this monster spawns, it decides to try and walk if it has a movetarget, or stand otherwise. The problem is that at the moment you've given it the same standing animation as the run animation, so it calls ai_run again, trapping it in a loop.
The fix is to put back the walk frames AS WELL. Don't replace the run animations, but add these functions too:
void () vorebabe_stand1 = [$walk1, vorebabe_stand1] {ai_stand();};
void () vorebabe_walk1 = [$walk1, vorebabe_walk2] {ai_walk(1);};
void () vorebabe_walk2 = [$walk2, vorebabe_walk3] {ai_walk(4);};
void () vorebabe_walk3 = [$walk3, vorebabe_walk4] {ai_walk(3);};
void () vorebabe_walk4 = [$walk4, vorebabe_walk5] {ai_walk(5);};
void () vorebabe_walk5 = [$walk5, vorebabe_walk6] {ai_walk(6);};
void () vorebabe_walk6 = [$walk6, vorebabe_walk7] {ai_walk(4);};
void () vorebabe_walk7 = [$walk7, vorebabe_walk8] {ai_walk(4);};
void () vorebabe_walk8 = [$walk8, vorebabe_walk9] {ai_walk(3);};
void () vorebabe_walk9 = [$walk9, vorebabe_walk10] {ai_walk(5);};
void () vorebabe_walk10 = [$walk10, vorebabe_walk1] {ai_walk(6);};
Then set the lines in monster_vorebabe to look like:
self.th_stand = vorebabe_stand1;
self.th_walk = vorebabe_walk1;
self.th_run = vorebabe_run1;
Then compile and it'll work.
One more thing, you have the glowing effect on for a few frames, which works fine, except it's possible for the monster to die or go into pain inbetween the light going on and the attack turning it off. This means the light doesn't turn off again, which probably isn't what you want. Add self.effects = 0; to the top of vorebabe_die and to the bottom of vorebabe_pain - so only turn the effect off if the vorebabe actually goes into pain, but do it before you think about gibbing it.
Pointless Feature Idea
#5400 posted by neg!ke [82.83.40.91] on 2006/10/06 01:40:19
a "light" field on funcs that lights their faces according to its value?
Metlslime
#5401 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/06 01:59:10
here is the july version Shaderman linked on Map-Center, it has q1 wad support:
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/fil...
#5402 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2006/10/06 04:57:29
you can load jpg/tga textures by loading a folder
textures -> directory list then "load"
AguirRe
#5403 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2006/10/06 08:13:43
Thanks a lot, it works fine (so far :))
makes mapping in radiant much easier
Good
#5404 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.128] on 2006/10/06 10:26:10
Yeah!!!
#5405 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/06 13:05:06
Wauw Preach, that's what I searched!
Although you're magic scriptions aren't really clear to me, they seem to plot their aim.
I've seen so many errors now in proqcc I finally can't believe it works. Now I can add two monsters, and change their behaviour.
I have been looking to the shallrath.qc
I wanted making it throw eggs on the player, that explode these vorebabes.
So I first changed the missiles into grenades, and changed the grenade.mdl into an egg.mdl
When these eggs explode, it would spawn two or three vorebabes.
The first thing went right, the shallrath throws eggs, but the attack amount is much too high. I'm looking for the attack time, but have'nt found it yet.
Another thing is to respawn the vorebabes.
I thought to use the multigrenade code, as it has something in common. They first stick at the wall and then explode. But it is more the subroutine of making something respawn after a grenade explosion I meant.
But I think it needs a lot of coding, when a shalrath respawns two vorebabes, it needs another attack, otherwise there'll be soon to much monsters in play.
Hey.., thanks a lot again.
Kell/Speeds:
#5406 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/06 13:27:57
here is the july version Shaderman linked on Map-Center, it has q1 wad support:
Thanks, I'll check it out.
you can load jpg/tga textures by loading a folder
textures -> directory list then "load"
Ah, but q1 map files don't have directory paths in the map file, so you have to put the textures in id1/textures/ rather than id1/textures/blah/ and id1//textures/ doesn't show up in the directory list.
Water Flow Creation
#5407 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/10/06 14:26:18
I have a small question: I would like to create a flow, in order to force the player to go in a certain direction while crawling.... I tested trigger_push, but unfortunately having a wind sound in the water is not realistic...
So, is there any method to perform a water flow without any sound ?
Invisible, Silent Func_trains
#5408 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/06 16:12:10
maybe?
Water Current
#5409 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/06 17:06:12
we'll try to add something like that to Quoth pak1
JPL
#5410 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/06 19:16:52
The extras pack has a nice waterflow.
You should cheque it out.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/extra...
Kell:
#5411 posted by metlslime [69.181.183.245] on 2006/10/06 23:00:12
thanks again! wads loading in radiant! OMG!
Metlslime / MadFox
#5412 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/10/07 01:39:01
Thanks a lot for your help...
Resetting A Counter...
#5413 posted by generic [71.1.0.64] on 2006/10/08 08:35:48
I can't seem to wrap my brain around it, but can you set up a scenario where you have to keep more than one button pressed, in order to keep a door open, using a counter? I.e. failure to do so in a timely manner causes you to have to go back and forth until all the buttons are pressed.
I assume having the correct number of buttons reported to player via the counter could be problematic:
Only 1 more to go... >> Only 2 more to go... >> Only 1 more to go...
You Could Do It With Logic Gates That Close After A Certain Time
#5414 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/10/08 08:55:31
But not with printing anything worthwhile to the player.
What Czg Said
#5415 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/10/08 09:03:40
See this post here about logic gates if you're not familiar already.
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
You Could Do It With Logic Gates That Close After A Certain Time
#5416 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/10/08 09:32:35
But not with printing anything worthwhile to the player.
Func is being a stupid whore and not responding to my requests so this probably gets doubleposted.
You Could Do It With Logic Gates That Close After A Certain Time
#5417 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/10/08 09:48:24
What the hell it's already posted why are you such a dick today, func?
GTK Question.
#5418 posted by biff_debris [68.114.159.180] on 2006/10/08 15:05:46
Is there a key/mouse combo to get the texture on a patch to align with one on an adjoining brush? I've got a inverted bevel in a corner made of two brushes, and want it to be flush.
Delayed Light Styles
#5419 posted by . [69.217.62.118] on 2006/10/08 19:01:57
Is there any way to delay a light style?
Say I have a row of lights: A, B, C and D. All of them flicker on/off, but in sequence, going down a hall - and not all at the same time. So you have like this... moving light pulse or something going down a corridor. NOT a traveling light (like the rocket's emitted light).
The Only Way
#5420 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/10/08 22:13:39
would be to do it via triggers, relays and switchable lights.
because of the way lights work in quake, any light with the same style is updated in the exact same way, so all lights of that style will always be identical.
alternatively, you could modify the progs and create new light styles to do your effect.
Phait
#5421 posted by negke [82.83.41.234] on 2006/10/08 23:30:09
what necros said.
i did that in sm118. basically, two relays for each light, all fired at the same time. one for switching the light on after a delay and one for switching it back of after some more delay. all started by an untouchable trigger_multiple that is continuously fired itself after each cycle, so the whole thing starts from new. initially fired by the spawning player of course.
maybe one of these steps could be spared with more clever scripting, but you'll get the idea..
Also...
#5422 posted by metlslime [69.181.183.245] on 2006/10/08 23:43:09
styled lights can't be toggled. Or vice versa. I'm pretty sure.
Eehhh...
#5423 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/10/09 09:48:35
i was typing up an explanation about lights but the for some reason, i pressed something and it went back to the forum index and erased my post.
metl is right though.
Does This Mean What Phait Wants?
#5424 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/09 14:07:58
/*********************************...
Switcheable lights that
turn on and off gradually
Affects all switcheable lights in all maps.
Customization : in light entities, set
"speed" to the speed of the turning on/off
(default 1). Set speed to -1 to recover
the default behaviour.
Armin Rigo
**********************************...
Does This Mean What Phait Wants?
#5425 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/09 14:08:45
/*********************************...
Switcheable lights that
turn on and off gradually
Affects all switcheable lights in all maps.
Customization : in light entities, set
"speed" to the speed of the turning on/off
(default 1). Set speed to -1 to recover
the default behaviour.
Armin Rigo
**********************************...
Metl
#5426 posted by gone [213.170.89.98] on 2006/10/12 02:01:07
aguires` qbsp removes texture paths if u use q2 map mode
Speed:
#5427 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/12 12:03:49
Sure, but at that point what's the purpose of having Q1 support in an editor? I can use sleepy's mapconv.exe and make the map in qeradiant too.
Killable Water
#5428 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/10/12 23:26:47
Can it be done?
I want to drain an area...
Use
#5429 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/13 00:31:09
pox_extras mod... it has moving water volumes.
And
#5430 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/13 23:19:49
exploding barrels! I have just altered my own progs with it! I couldn't delete the bot code,as it started giving errors.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/extra...
Another noob question: if I want to spawn a new monster in the explosion of a Vormit,where in the qc should I look?
Killable Water
#5431 posted by . [69.217.62.118] on 2006/10/13 23:46:29
Or just make the room the water is in, a func_train... this won't always work well depending what kind/size room.
Void - Black Lit Entities
#5432 posted by ijed [201.236.132.223] on 2006/10/16 07:18:04
Phait - q2 has func_water which assumes it will move pretty much like a func_door, it was later updated by the lazarus mod to include lots of nice features (mud, sine wave bobbing etc.).
but as far as I know nothing exists for water to be killable because of the way quake calculates the world in the vis/bsp process. I'd recommend not allowing the player to touch it and then changing it to a func_wall - it'll be solid and i cant remember if it would animate or be frozen (the texture) but you'd be able to kill it.
also - i remember some discussion on this, but what are the workarounds for enemies + items appearing black when not above a solid brush - ie. floating in the void, typically scrags and other fliers, although i've had problems with func_trains and others.
For Lighting In The Void
#5433 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2006/10/16 07:34:40
The bottom layer should be a brush with any normal texture (scaled up 40 times or something), then a brush with your black sky. You might have to make the sky brush a func_illusionary.
Place a huge light at the bottom to light it all. Hint: make it a spotlight pointing down with a 180 degree cone. This way you avoid spilling light upwards to the rest of the level.
As for trains, they are lit wherever they are built and then moved into the correct position upon map load. If you need to, you can build it in a small room outside the level that is floodlit.
Void-lighting
#5434 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/16 08:32:08
what are the workarounds for enemies + items appearing black when not above a solid brush - ie. floating in the void
Short version: place a brush inside the bottom skybrush. Light its top surface.
Long version: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Groovy
#5435 posted by ijed [201.236.132.223] on 2006/10/16 08:59:55
i'd considered a solution like this but wasn't sure how light knew that there was a brush 'outside' the world (inside the bottom skybrush). I'm using sunlight so maybe I won't need to place spotlights on the floor, though as my skybrushes are already with texture size 9999x9999 it wouldn't be too much of a hardship to copy paste. i've also got the lower walls being skybrushes as well, solid geometry doesn't touch the lowest skybrush, so lighting wouldn't be a problem - all brushes are flush to the base, to help VIS, though it does spoil the illusion slightly when the player falls into the void.
cheers!
Out Of Range
#5436 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/17 00:09:45
I have this Mage/Newboss in a cave, but it shoots missiles from a lower startpoint, than it can hit me. How do I alter its missile, so it shoots from that height straight to me?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/nbase...
First I lowered the mdl file with Quark and set it in the map to a heigher field. But it felt back.
In the qc for Launch_ lava I changed its origin, but then it shoots beside me.
setsize (newmis, '0 0 0', '0 0 0');
newmis.origin = self.origin + '0 0 12';
newmis.origin = self.origin + '0 0 256';
won't do, because then it still launches from the bottom over my head.
In Range
#5437 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/18 16:07:22
well, after puzzling awhile I found when I change in the Launch_lava:
vec = normalize (vec);
into
vec = normalize (vec - '0 0 164');
it launches straight to me from the right height, only the launch moment has the same muzzle flash on 0 0 12 point.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/nbase...
I am using the extras_p4 pak, and I seem to get fine results, goodies like exploding barrels, func_watertrain, func_breakable.
When I play the extras game, it seems as if the monster_fish won't attack me (?!). Even when I'm in front of them. Is this a bug?
Crucified Zombies In Qoole
#5438 posted by Saturnine [70.178.211.151] on 2006/10/18 21:28:54
How is it done?
Crucified Zombies
#5439 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/18 21:39:26
"spawnflags" "1"
.
#5440 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/19 12:20:08
fishes fell out of water_train, so my fault they won't attatck. No bug in extras_p4.
AllocBlock Full
#5441 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/22 01:48:55
The map has no leaks and is not boxed. However, I do have some extremely large single brushes (2048 x 1024 x 16) that are not sky-brushes.
Is there any benefit to making these either smaller brushes but taking up the same space, or by making them up with smaller brushes with different textures.
I ask because I remember some previous discussions about 'lightmaps' causing this error and I think that is to do with textures.
(I can't search back through Mapping Help as the Previous link stops working after about 5 or 6 clicks - I just get The Page Cannot Be Displayed type error)
Mike
#5442 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.184] on 2006/10/22 05:38:16
See my ToolTips, engine section. Increasing tex scale usually helps. I don't know if splitting brushes will help much as qbsp already does that, but it could be worth a try. Different texes shouldn't make any difference.
You can use the command lightmaps in my GL-engines to see the current requirements.
AguirRe
#5443 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/22 08:38:30
OK, thanks.
Using your engine I can see that the lightmaps are 64 i.e. at max, in the map version prior to getting the error. The only difference was that in the next version I had added some extra 'normal' size brushes (a corridor) but I do not know whether I added any new textures or not.
I re-scaled one of the largest brushes to x5 and sure enough lightmaps became 63. For the sake of good order, I then changed another to x8 and lightmaps dropped to 60. I also tried all textures the same and it rose to 65 lightmaps, so that didn't help. Finally, I split one of the largest brushes into 16 and the lightmaps stayed at 64.
I think that probably 'proves' the thoery so will look towards rescaling to reduce the lightmaps.
If it is not too difficult, can you describe what a lightmap is and why changing the texture scale should reduce them. Also, does re-scaling downwards have a detrimental effect?
Is there an argument for manipulating the textures in (say) Photoshop so that you can scale-up in the editor to get the texture looking normal in the engine, thereby avoiding the lightmap problem? Or am I trying to be too clever for my own good here:-)
Engine Lightmaps
#5444 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.8] on 2006/10/22 09:23:20
I also don't know exactly what they are, but think of them as the surfaces of each visible brush face containing information about the current lightlevel in a number of discrete surface points, arranged in a grid and with a density related to the current texture scale (smaller scale means more points). The lightlevel can be not set (i.e. fullbright) or as calculated from the light tool.
Either way, all these surfaces must then be allocated in the engine no matter if they're fullbright or not and they're all in one big memory buffer that in normal engines has a certain fixed size. The allocation strategy is made in a way that may cause inefficient usage of this big buffer and in any case you can't have more than 64.
An engine can then just increase the buffer size (will require quite a bit of memory) or allocate it dynamically, like in my engines or DP. My limit is still set to 1k lightmaps since I still use a small fixed size array, but I could easily increase that if required.
I've never seen any real map require more than about 800 lightmaps, though (a huge leaking map). You could probably easily produce a synthetic test case of course that could exceed even my 1k limit.
Lightmaps
#5445 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/10/22 15:14:24
My map suffered the same problem, before I scaled texture.
For my good understanding;
so textures that are out of vieuw,ie backsides,
two brushes against eachother, their textures size does count in the total 64 lightmaps?
If You Can See
#5446 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.225] on 2006/10/22 15:41:47
see the textured faces in-game (noclipping or not), the faces count. That is one of the reasons why any volume that the player can't reach (or is used for other purposes) should be filled or opened for the void.
It's also the reason why unnecessary sky should always be shrunk to minimize the outside textured faces. They can be a huge contributor to the total lightmap count.
Just A Thought
#5447 posted by ijed [201.236.130.105] on 2006/10/23 09:51:49
but would it possible to run some kind of precompiler or .bat that automatically stretched every sky / clip / trigger texture 9999*9999 ?
it'd be a lazy man's tool (since ultraedit can do the job as well) but would be good if implemented directly into the compiler, though it would remove alot of the necessary thought from texturing, so maybe not such a good idea.
Back Up A Bit...
#5448 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/10/23 13:20:29
Sky faces don't get lightmaps, so they aren't part of this calculation. Same with clip.
Trigger, on the other hand, does get lightmapped. So if you have any large triggers, you would benefit from scaling the textures up. Same with Skip.
Sound Files
#5449 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/24 09:22:37
I have a looped .wav file that I want to use unlooped. How can I convert it to be unlooped?
Unlooping
#5450 posted by Preach [131.111.8.97] on 2006/10/24 09:52:14
If you use Goldwave, it's fairly easy. Open the wav file up, and go to Tool -> Cue Points. Select the cue points present in the file and delete them. Then save it again and it will no longer loop.
Preach
#5451 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/24 10:21:05
Well that was painless, thanks Preach.
Czg, I Think This One Is Up Your Alley...
#5452 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/25 08:04:58
...I'm using Hip's rotate entites and for any single object or a group moving in one direction together, everything is fine - smooth as a whistle. But if I have two seperate objects moving at the same time e.g. double doors opening away from each other, I get 'judder' on one of them.
Is this a known problem and can I do anything about it (apart from making it a single door)?
As always, your help will be appreciated.
Thought I'd Just Pitch In
#5453 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/10/25 18:34:22
as this method is simpler (if you don't have anything other than soundrec.exe).
open up soundrecorder and make a new wave file. do edit->insert file->your looped file
now resave as a new (or overwrite). voila, no more loopage. :P
Blood In QSP1
#5454 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/26 04:51:09
Do I remember a mod from some time ago that put blood splatters on the walls?
(necros: thanks, I'll try to remember that)
Dunno
#5455 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/10/26 09:35:48
i think SoA had that?
careful though. sprites don't get lit, so blood splatters in dark rooms will look dumb.
There's A Mole In The Camp
#5456 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/26 10:48:17
How did you know my rooms were dark ;-)
Thanks, I'll look up SoA.
.map Conversion Help Needed
#5457 posted by Kinn [81.129.224.255] on 2006/10/27 17:43:18
Ok, I have a quake map, in the half-life .map format (I made it with Hammer you see), and I would like to somehow get it into DOOMEdit.
I don't care about any of the entities obviously, but it would be nice to have the geometry of brushmodel entities preserved in some way.
Any ideas how I would go about this?
Kinn
#5458 posted by DaZ [80.41.129.218] on 2006/10/28 19:02:26
Just a hipshot here, but could you perhaps run the hammer .map file through mapconv.exe and output it as a standard .map file that you can import into doomedit??
* I am very drunk
Kinn
#5459 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/10/28 20:20:48
Isn't the brush data stored the same in all WC/Hammer/Doomedit maps? If you didn't care about the texture data then it might be possible to reset all the textures to one texture with one scale/rotation/shift setting, and then find/replace that with Doom3's texture data.
I Don't Think So
#5460 posted by BlackDog [58.7.184.74] on 2006/10/29 01:18:47
AFAIK brush formats differ between hl1, q1, q2, d3, etc
The Only Thing That Differs...
#5461 posted by metlslime [69.181.183.245] on 2006/10/29 01:25:13
...is some of the numbers at the end, which represent brush flags, surface flags, light values, etc. And I think HL has a different texture alignment format. But the brush geometry itself is the same across all of them, I think.
#5462 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/10/29 01:50:12
is some of the numbers at the end, which represent brush flags, surface flags, light values, etc.
Yeah, that's certainly the difference between Q1 and Q2/3 .map format. That's as explained in the older mapconv tool readme.
I'm not sure what the particular flags/info in the HL format .map are, but ages ago I successfully opened some Q1 .maps in WorldCraft 2/3 without any conversion. The texture info was indeed lost, but the brush info required no translating.
.map Formats
#5463 posted by Kinn [81.158.84.52] on 2006/10/29 02:49:39
cheers for the replies - here's some info which might be useful. I tested in gtk, creating a "map" consisting of one 128x128 brush centered on the origin. This is the Q1 .map
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
// brush 0
{
( 64 64 64 ) ( 64 -64 64 ) ( -64 64 64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
( 64 64 64 ) ( -64 64 64 ) ( 64 64 -64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
( 64 64 64 ) ( 64 64 -64 ) ( 64 -64 64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
( -64 -64 -64 ) ( 64 -64 -64 ) ( -64 64 -64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
( -64 -64 -64 ) ( -64 -64 64 ) ( 64 -64 -64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
( -64 -64 -64 ) ( -64 64 -64 ) ( -64 -64 64 ) NULL 0 0 0 1 1
}
}
Note that the half-life version would be very similar to the Q1 version, but GTK wasn't playing nice with me in HL mode for some reason, so I couldn't test. The only difference between HL and Q1 afaik are some extra texture alignment properties. The way it stores brush geometry is the same. The HL .map format is detailed here:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/in...
and this is the same "map" again, remade in D3 mode:
Version 2
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
// brush 0
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "_emptyname" 0 0 0
}
}
}
As you can see, even the syntax for the brush coordinates are stored differently. Here's as much as I could find regarding the D3 map format (I didn't look very hard, mind):
http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/MAP_%2...
Getting from HL -> Q1 is something i've done before. SPoG once made a quick build of GTK for me that opened a HL .map and saved a Q1 .map. I've lost this unique build ever since I had to reformat my laptop; SPoG, I don't suppose there's a chance you've still got it saved somewhere?
Daz: I thought mapconv.exe only worked for swapping between Q1 and Q2/3, or is there another version around?
I hear that getting from Q3->D3 is possible too, something about DOOMEdit will import a Q3 map that's been saved in "brush primitives mode". If true, then HL -> Q1 -> Q3 -> D3 might be achievable with existing tools, but I'm currently still stuck on the first stage...
QuArK
#5464 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.168] on 2006/10/29 05:38:02
can do several (if not all) of those formats natively and usually you can also choose between several output formats for a specific game. I can e.g. get it to output a Valve 220 (Hammer) format map from a Q1 source directly.
I've also used it for converting from Hammer format maps to BSP editor format. The only obvious problem then is the lost extra tex info. There might of course be accuracy losses as well if it's a big and complex map.
Keys That Target Things
#5465 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/29 08:21:22
I have a gold key that targets other events e.g. spawn a monster. I collect the gold key and sure enough, the monster spawns in.
In another map, I have exactly the same set-up but the monster doesn't spawn in. In the editor I can see that the key is linked to the monster, and target and targetnames are correct.
Why would it work in one map and not in the other?
Targets
#5466 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2006/10/29 08:43:49
Wait, so the key is targetting the monster itself? Does that mean you're using a modified progs like spawn64, where you set a flag on a monster to spawn it? It's possible that custom code would behave oddly. Otherwise I can't see any reason why a key would fail to target something if you replace it with, say, a button with the same target.
Forget It...
#5467 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/29 08:46:57
... more haste, less speed.
I hadn't vis'd the map. The monster was there, I just couldn't see it. Ho hum!
Preach
#5468 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/29 08:54:09
Wasn't ignoring you, our messages overlapped.
And yes, I'm using your 'style 1' idea and it all works just fine. It's just that Qbsp takes 3.5 minutes and Vis takes another 3, so I don't use it (or Light) when I'm only doing quick checks.
As I say, everything is all right. I might even post some screenies sometime.
Oh, In That Case
#5469 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2006/10/29 09:42:21
You might want to check out the tutorial I posted on inside3d a few months back.
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
It's a kinda updated version, makes it so it uses spawnflags(which does make more sense really) and cuts down on the amount of code you need to change to integrate it(you no longer need to modify each monster to teleport it). Practically though it doesn't add anything the old code didn't do, so there's no "need" to migrate the map if it works as it is. It is a much nicer base to work from if you need custom monsters though, so I thought I'd advertise it here for people to use in future.
Hm,
#5470 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/10/29 11:16:47
i like your method a lot more preach. much cleaner.
#5471 posted by Trinca [87.196.249.173] on 2006/10/29 12:23:12
necros if u have msn add me trinquinha@gmail.com
i need last .mdls :)
Preach
#5472 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/29 12:45:24
Yes, I agree with necros; a much neater solution.
However, I had already changed all the monsters to the 'style' method sometime ago and as everything is working OK, I'll stick with it now.
Aguirre
#5473 posted by Kinn [81.129.225.208] on 2006/10/30 16:37:24
cheers for the quark info, although i may have a solution in the pipeline anyway now
AguirRe
#5474 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/31 15:14:06
Just a silly thing really: I'm using your engine to test my map as Fitz balks with the SZ_GetSpace error (I know what I have to do), and I notice that if a monster's bounding box overlaps an edge (perhaps he's standing on a crate) your 1.31 engine gives a 'walkmonster stuck in wall' type warning. He's still available for slaughter in-game so it is no problem but I don't see this kind of warning in FQ.
It only seems to happen in Fitz if the monster is actually inside or partly inside a brush.
Umm, just an observation.
Rotating Entities
#5475 posted by Mike Woodham [86.143.87.28] on 2006/10/31 15:16:25
OK, I'll throw it open - can anyone help with my query in post #5452 above?
Thought You Had The Hipnotic.qc Already
#5476 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/01 20:31:55
STEP 1. Make a brush or group of brushes to rotate.
STEP 2. Place an info_rotate entity at the centre of rotation. Give it a targetname
STEP 3. Convert the brush(es) from step#1 into a rotate_object, give it a targetname, and set it's target to the info_rotate from step#2
STEP 4. Create a func_rotate_entity - placement doesn't matter, but it's a good idea to put it near the object it's related to (directly above the info_rotate seems like the best spot). Set it's target to the rotate_object from step #3 and fill in the rest of the data. NOTE: the 'rotate rate' must be in this format '0 0 0' each number controls the rate of rotaion in each axis (x y z) - the higher the number, the faster the rotation. Positive numbers are clockwise and negative numbers are counter-clockwise. You can also target this entity from a button to start/stop the rotaion, but you'll also have to set it's 'TOGGLE' (and possibly 'START_ON') spawnflag(s).
STEP 5. Build!
You should now have a continuous rotating object, doors are similar to set up. Rotating platforms are similar but need path_rotate entities to follow They are a pain to setup and are not covered here.
I found it in the extras_r4 I'm working with.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/rotat...
Oops
#5477 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/01 20:38:25
It is for the Paroxysm Mod, so I don't know if it is the same for the hipnotics.qc
Yeap,
#5478 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.113] on 2006/11/01 21:02:17
it's the same. Hiprot.qc is in the compile list for Paroxysm's Extras.
This brings up an idea Kell and I tossed around once. Anyone have ideas on making the rotation code easier to use? I suggested that because the Half-Life rotation code is easier to use for a mapper there has to be a better way to do it, and Kell reminded me that the hull structure is different in Half-Life and that could possibly account for the difference.
It is one of those things I'll need to get around to at some point in time for my own modding needs, but I would be interested if someone like, for instance QuakeCSuperFly Preach, has already done so or given some thought to it.
Half-life Rotation
#5479 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/11/01 21:31:37
half-life rotation and quake2 rotation are easier becuase they support "origin" brushes, which define the rotation point. Without that, we need the "info_rotate" entity.
however, I have a theory that it would be possible to have origin brushes supported in quake simply by adding support to qbsp.
And then you could write your quakec rotation code to take that qbsp change into account (should be much easier -- rotating brushes in quake are totally hacked and becuase all bmodels have their true origin at the center of the world.)
Also:
#5480 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/11/01 21:33:34
Preach, i just used your monster spawning code from i3d. Very straightforward. Thanks!
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
I Tried Some Doors...
#5481 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/01 22:36:46
http://members.home.nl/gimli/doors...
can't time them to shut, though they turn at the same time.
Rotation Judder
#5482 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/02 04:51:16
This is a video of the problem I have:-
http://www.mysharefile.com/v/25345...
(It's 6meg so if you are on dial-up it's probably not worth it, and my apologies for the 12 secs delay before you can download)
In-game the judder is much worse, at least twice as bad - the video capture program affects the fps so this extract may not come across as anything to worry about.
Both doors are set up the same with the exception of the direction parameters.
MadFox
#5483 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/02 05:07:59
You have your rotation bits slightly mixed up.
I think this is what you want: from the player's point of view whan you walk on the button the two doors open inwards and stop until the second button is walked on (actually, either button toggles the doors).
{
"classname" "rotate_object"
"target" "t10"
"targetname" "right_door"
{
//"0000" "0"
( 16 0 -272 ) ( 16 88 -272 ) ( 16 88 -400 ) DR05_2 384 -128 0 0.25 0.25
( 0 0 -400 ) ( 0 88 -400 ) ( 0 88 -272 ) DR05_2 0 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 88 -400 ) ( 16 88 -400 ) ( 16 88 -272 ) DR05_2 -64 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 0 -272 ) ( 16 0 -272 ) ( 16 0 -400 ) DR05_2 -64 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 0 -400 ) ( 16 0 -400 ) ( 16 88 -400 ) DR05_2 -64 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 88 -272 ) ( 16 88 -272 ) ( 16 0 -272 ) DR05_2 -64 0 0 1.0 1.0
}
}
{
//"0000"
"classname" "info_rotate"
"targetname" "t10"
"origin" "0 88 -272"
}
{
//"0000"
"classname" "func_rotate_door"
"target" "right_door"
"rotate" "0 1 0"
"targetname" "door_mover"
"origin" "0 88 -272"
"angles" "0 -90 0"
}
{
"wait" "2"
"classname" "func_button"
"target" "door_mover"
"angle" "-2"
{
//"0000" "0"
( -120 72 -396 ) ( -120 -72 -396 ) ( -120 -72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 0 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( -64 72 -400 ) ( -64 -72 -400 ) ( -64 -72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 0 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( -64 -72 -400 ) ( -120 -72 -400 ) ( -120 -72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( -64 72 -396 ) ( -120 72 -396 ) ( -120 72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( -64 72 -400 ) ( -120 72 -400 ) ( -120 -72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 0 0 1.0 1.0
( -64 -72 -396 ) ( -120 -72 -396 ) ( -120 72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 0 0 1.0 1.0
}
}
{
"wait" "2"
"angle" "-2"
"target" "door_mover"
"classname" "func_button"
{
//"0000" "0"
( 112 -72 -396 ) ( 56 -72 -396 ) ( 56 72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 112 72 -400 ) ( 56 72 -400 ) ( 56 -72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 112 72 -396 ) ( 56 72 -396 ) ( 56 72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( 112 -72 -400 ) ( 56 -72 -400 ) ( 56 -72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 -8 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( 112 72 -400 ) ( 112 -72 -400 ) ( 112 -72 -396 ) FLOOR01_5 0 -456 0 1.0 1.0
( 56 72 -396 ) ( 56 -72 -396 ) ( 56 -72 -400 ) FLOOR01_5 0 -456 0 1.0 1.0
}
}
{
//"0000"
"angles" "0 90 0"
"origin" "0 -88 -272"
"targetname" "door_mover"
"rotate" "0 1 0"
"target" "left_door"
"classname" "func_rotate_door"
}
{
//"0000"
"origin" "0 -88 -272"
"targetname" "t10"
"classname" "info_rotate"
}
{
"targetname" "left_door"
"target" "t10"
"classname" "rotate_object"
{
//"0000" "0"
( 16 -88 -272 ) ( 0 -88 -272 ) ( 0 0 -272 ) DR05_2 -64 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 16 0 -400 ) ( 0 0 -400 ) ( 0 -88 -400 ) DR05_2 -64 0 0 1.0 1.0
( 16 0 -272 ) ( 0 0 -272 ) ( 0 0 -400 ) DR05_2 -64 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 16 -88 -400 ) ( 0 -88 -400 ) ( 0 -88 -272 ) DR05_2 -64 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 16 0 -400 ) ( 16 -88 -400 ) ( 16 -88 -272 ) DR05_2 0 -128 0 1.0 1.0
( 0 0 -272 ) ( 0 -88 -272 ) ( 0 -88 -400 ) DR05_2 384 -128 0 0.25 0.25
}
}
If you move your existing doors, buttons and entities out of the way and then save the map, you can then copy and paste the above straight into your map file, it should work.
The func_rotate_door is not the door but the entity that causes the door to move. The door itself, the bit that you see move in the game, is called rotate_object.
I've copied this from the map file I just created based on your sample, so it is not in any sort of order but once you see it in the editor it will probably make sense.
Let me know if this is OK but if not, I can always e-mail the map to you.
Madfox
#5484 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/02 05:10:01
By 'inwards' I mean that the doors open away from the player.
??!
#5485 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/02 11:48:22
half-life rotation and quake2 rotation are easier becuase they support "origin" brushes, which define the rotation point. Without that, we need the "info_rotate" entity.
however, I have a theory that it would be possible to have origin brushes supported in quake simply by adding support to qbsp.
And then you could write your quakec rotation code to take that qbsp change into account (should be much easier -- rotating brushes in quake are totally hacked and becuase all bmodels have their true origin at the center of the world.)
What?! that'd be... well, awesome. i would absolutely love to know how this is done. :o
Yes
#5486 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/02 11:58:46
thanks for your replacement of the map.
it works better now.
I saw your question, and as I'm also working with a hipnotic.qc I wondered why you couldn't get your doors open similair. So I compiled this map as explain.
But in your avi I understand the problem. Seems as if one of the func_rotate_door and info_rotate won't correspondent.
As if they are not on the same axe, but I think that was also the reason of your question.
Odd, Can't think of something else.
Maybe the Paroxysm mod tutorial can help, although I couldn't make it work.
MadFox
#5487 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/02 14:45:17
OK, I can see what's wrong.
The info_rotate entities should be unique to each door. So, the "targetname" "t10" needs to be changed to "targetname" "left_info" on the info_rotate for the lefthand door, and to "targetname" "right_info" on the info_rotate for the righthand door. Then make the left and right rotate_objects target their respective info_rotates.
No judder, super smooth.
If this is a little confusing, I can send you a working example.
Dunno If Anyone Can Help
#5488 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 00:40:52
but this has been pissing me off all day...
acceleration = ((v*v) - v) / ((2 * delta_d) - delta_t);
v is final velocity
this should give me an acceleration that would accelerate an object to v in delta_t time, simultaneously making it such that it attains those two criteria after moving delta_d distance... right??
Necros
#5489 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/03 02:44:48
just regarding the function, it is not consistent in term of units
In extenso:
acceleration should be in m/(s^2)
delta_t is a time in s
delta_d is a distance in m
v is a speed in m/s
So I heavily guess there is an error in the math: where did you pick up this function ?
Just Applying Logic Alone...
#5490 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/03 03:39:49
... to calculate acceleration surely you need to know the change in velocity, not just the final velocity. Therefore, I would expect to see a v1 and v2 in there somewhere.
But what do I know?
Mike..
#5491 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/03 05:42:39
You are rigth ;)
Constant Acceleration
#5492 posted by Preach [131.111.8.97] on 2006/11/03 06:57:02
Woo, some maths to break wrath's scrollwheel with.
I'm guessing you want a constant acceleration that will take an object starting at rest to a position delta_x at time delta_t with velocity v, where all three of these are constants you wish to specify. Sadly, that isn't going to be possible, one of the three will be beyond your control.
Let x(t) be the position at time t.
x''(t) = a (constant acceleration)
x'(t) = a * t + v(0)(integrate up)
Starting from rest, we get that v(0) = 0
x'(t) = a * t
So now we can calculate the required a to reach speed v at time delta_t
v = x'(delta_t) = a * delta_t
a = v / delta_t
But now we have specified the entire system, as we only had the parameter a to vary. So integrating a second time we find
x = 0.5 * a * t^2 + x(0)
so substituting
delta_x = x - x(0) = 0.5 * (v / delta_t) * delta_t^2
= 0.5 * v * delta_t
Which is what you'd expect if you consider the 'average speed'.
So, what can you do? Well, we need to vary the acceleration over time in some manner, and the easiest way to do that would be a linear acceleration over time.
x''(t) = a + b * t
x'(t) = a * t + 0.5 * b * t^2 + v(0)
(integrate up)
Starting from rest, we get that v(0) = 0
Substitute v, delta_tand rearrange:
v / delta_t = a + b * delta_t (1)
Go back to the expression for x'(t) and integrate again:
x(t) = 1/2 * a * t^2 + 1/6 * b * t^3 + x(0)
Substitute for delta_x, delta_t and rearrange:
delta_x / delta_t^2 = 1/2 * a + 1/6 * b * delta_t (2)
Now, we have simlutaneous equations for a and b in terms of our three constants, so we eliminate a
0.5 * (1) - (2) gives:
b = 3 * [v / 2 * (delta_t^2) - delta_x / (delta_t^3)]
and then from 1
a = 3 * delta_x / (delta_t^2) - v / 2 * delta_t
Plug those values into the original acceleration formula
x''(t) = a + b * t
That should do it. It's by no means the only solution to the problem, the choice of a linear acceleration was arbitrary. The sum of any two independent functions of t would work, but that's probably more complicated than necessary.
Preach
#5493 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/03 07:35:33
Nice demonstration... Err BTW, are you a math teacher ??
Math
#5494 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2006/11/03 07:36:45
hehe, we just covered this in multivariable calculus :)
Multivariable Calculus
#5495 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/03 07:41:42
.. I saw that many years ago in University.. it was in... hmm.. 1992 .. wow... already 14 years... OMG, I'm old !!!
Not A Teacher...
#5496 posted by Preach [131.111.8.97] on 2006/11/03 08:55:38
I'm just a maths student who does tutoring occasionally. I always jump at the chance to put it into practice on here though...
0.o
#5497 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 09:40:03
i knew not doing calculus would come and bite me in the ass one day...
*sigh* i didn't understand half of what you put up there, but i'll be attempting to plug in your equation you put in...
just to check, is it: x''(t) = a + b * t or x''(t) = (a + b) * t ?
I Must Be Doing Something Wrong...
#5498 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 10:31:06
x = delta_x (constant)
t = delta_t (constant)
k = current time (from 0 to oo)
v = max speed (final velocity)
i have:
acceleration = ((3 * x/(t*t)) - (v/2 * t)) + ((3 * (v/2 * (t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)))) * k
then i set velocity via:
velocity = normalizedvector * acceleration * k
is this the wrong way to do it? is there a way to go directly to velocity without having to do acceleration before hand? am i just too stupid to comprehend this (lol)? :P
i think imma be taking calculus next year... 9_9
Non Constant Acceleration
#5499 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/03 10:57:53
It is x''(t) = a + (b * t)
The formula for acceleration you have there is almost correct, but the second 3 is in the bit of the brackets, and a few other things are bracketed ambiguously. Both of these things are probably my fault, so here's the corrected, unambiguous notation:
acceleration = ((3 * x/(t*t)) - (v/(2 * t))) + (3 *( (v/(2* t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)))) * k
So that's all correct now, and will give you the exact acceleration you need. But...
It's not the way to do what you want. The rule
velocity = acceleration * time
is only true when acceleration is constant. The proper way to treat it is that velocity is the integral of the acceleration with respect to time. If you've not done calculus that won't mean anything to you, but don't worry about that for now. The integral of
a + (b * t)
is
(a * t) + (1/2 * b * t^2)(here treating t as time, not the delta_t constant).
This expression gives you the velocity you want without having to think about the acceleration. So plugging the values of a and b into this gives(switching back to your notation x,t,k,v)
((3 * x/(t*t)) - (v/(2 * t))) * k + (3 *( (v/(2* t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)))) * k * k
Then multiply the normalised vector by this quantity and you're ready to go.
A final warning on accuracy. I'm guessing you're doing this in a quake mod, and that you're going to be changing the velocity of the entity every frame/think cycle. If you are doing that, it's not going to be 100% accurate. These calculations are a kind of mathematical ideal where you imagine the velocity changes perfectly smoothly. If it only changes every 0.1 seconds, it's going to cover less ground that it would have in this model. Quake doesn't support anything else natively though, but if you need higher accuracy than this, just ask. It's a more interesting problem, at least.
.
#5500 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 12:04:06
yeah, i suspected there would be inaccuracies, since, yes, i'm only setting velocity every 0.1 seconds. i'm probably going to just make a check each time and if the discrepancy is over a certain threshold to just reset the origin to the correct position.
once i can get this going to see how big the 'jumps' will be and how often the position will need to be corrected, i'll be able to judge if furthur accuracy is needed.
i'm still having problems with the velocity though.
when i watch the speed, it seems to dip slightly over the max speed, then lowers back to max speed (in this example, 64), so it'll go to about 66.8 or so, then go back to 64.
also, it still doesn't travel the proper distance in the alloted time, in this case, it's a little less than 32 units short.
if you want some numbers, here's what i'm testing with atm:
t = 2
x = 128
v = 64
k = 0 to 2 (in this case in 0.1 increments)
at the end of 2 seconds, it's only moved 96.3 units (so 31.7 units short of the mark).
this seems to be quite a large discrepancy, more so than i would have thought would be the result of setting velocity every 0.1 seconds. i tested with setting to 0.01 seconds (with host_maxfps 100) and the result is identical.
Sorry To Interupt The Highbrow Stuff....
#5501 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/03 13:36:43
Does anyone know of a cut-scene module for Quake1SP apart from the Custents one?
Low Accuracy
#5502 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/03 13:37:21
Yeah, that's probably because I'm a muppet and can't do simultaneous equations. So the expressions given for a and b are wrong by a few constants. If you solve them correctly, you get
b = 12*( (v / (2*t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)) )
a = ( (6*x) / (t*t) ) - ( (3*v)/t )
Plugged into the expression for velocity, that gives you:
velocity = (( (6*x) / (t*t) ) - ( (3*v)/t ) * k) + 0.5*12*( (v / (2*t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)) )*(k*k)
Obviously 0.5*12 can be simplified, but it's clearer where the terms come from like this. I'd expect maybe a few units out, but certainly not 30, if it keeps doing that I'll take another look.
Woah
#5503 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 14:14:04
using the new eqtn, it now starts with a speed of 192, decelerates to 0, then goes to -192 in the 2 second span. o.0
sorry to do this to ya, man... o.o
One Further Correction
#5504 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/03 15:16:38
There's a 3 where it should be a 2 in the expression for a, I'll get there in the end...
b = 12*( (v / (2*t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)) )
a = ( (6*x) / (t*t) ) - ( (2*v)/t )
velocity = (( (6*x) / (t*t) ) - ( (2*v)/t ) * k) + 0.5*12*( (v / (2*t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)) )*(k*k)
I'm not entirely convinced that's going fix the behaviour you described though. I can't see how the velocity can start at anything but 0, since both of the velocity terms are multiplied by at least one factor of k...anyway, try that and see, it might get the velocity to -128 at least.
Oh, Wait
#5505 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/03 15:18:42
No, I see the other problem, there's a bracket in the wrong place in the velocity equation. The entire a term should be multiplied by k, not just the latter half
velocity = (( (6*x) / (t*t) ) - ( (2*v)/t ) )* k + 0.5*12*( (v / (2*t*t)) - (x / (t*t*t)) )*(k*k)
Cool!
#5506 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 16:16:15
it's definatly getting there. time, velocity and position are all pretty much in sync (off by about 0.3 units) but there is still the problem that the velocity passes the max velocity for a bit before coming back down to the max velocity.
max = 5
it's like: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6.5, 6, 5, done
instead of: 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5, 5, done
in any case, thanks tons for helping me out here with this. i couldn't have figured this math out on my own. :)
Time To Max
#5507 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/03 16:37:37
Does it reach the maximum of 5 at the correct time before it goes over? At the moment, the equations don't have any consideration for a "maximum speed" as such, they are set up just to reach the right speed at time = t. What they do after that I hadn't thought about - I assumed they'd just get faster and faster until they reached the maximum quake speed(2000 units normally). If you want to clamp the speed at v, then you should just check if k > t, and if it is forget the calculations and set velocity equal to v.
There's probably a better design for the original acceleration model so that it goes to zero as the velocity tends to v. Then again, it would probably involve an exponential function, which isn't good for quake - numerical approximations in quake c are expensive operations. I might have a think about that tomorrow...
Hijack Velocity...
#5508 posted by generic [71.1.3.42] on 2006/11/03 16:41:22
In another attempt to change the subject, what's up with Worldcraft confusing textures?
I have "karch1" and "karch1l" (Hi, Kell) in a map but only "karch1l" ever gets used. The map looks fine in the editor but, when I try checking the Face Properties on a "karch1" brush, I always get "karch1l" :| Anyone out there figure their way around this one?
Nevermind...
#5509 posted by generic [71.1.3.42] on 2006/11/03 20:57:53
After some simple renaming, "karch1l" to "karch1_l," all seems to be made right...Does that count as modifying a texture? If so, I should probably get permission (o_0)
No, That's The Thing
#5510 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/03 23:18:43
it goes over the max speed before the correct time, then it reduces speed so that it's at the right speed at the correct time. if i were too simply cap the speed at a maximum, it wouldn't move far enough, because it wouldn't get that 'boost' in distance from going over the limit.
#5511 posted by Kell [82.41.8.80] on 2006/11/04 00:29:01
I have "karch1" and "karch1l" (Hi, Kell)
Hi generic
Does that count as modifying a texture? If so, I should probably get permission
Heh, you have my permission to modify the texture. You also have my permission to slap Worldcraft's texture browser :P
Over The Limit
#5512 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2006/11/04 00:47:58
The final velocity shouldn't be thought of as the "maximum velocity", there's no reason that these equations should lead to strictly increasing speed. From what you describe, it sounds like if you evaluate the values of a and b, you'll get a positive and b negative. I should stress that this is only because of the particular values of v, x and t you have chosen. Set v = 200, t = 6 and x = 600 and you'll see not only a constantly increasing speed, but in fact you'll find the acceleration is constant(b = 0). When I get back, I'll post a solution where the final velocity is a maximum.
Maximum Velocity
#5513 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2006/11/04 13:59:55
Ok, did this in the gap between lectures today.
To make sure the velocity is a maximum at time delta_t, we want there to be no acceleration at delta_t. This is another constraint to the problem, so we're going to add a third term to the acceleration. I'll do using t for the time variable and delta_t as the interval required because it's more natural:
x'' = a + b*t + c*t^2
We can already solve for a in terms of b and c, as we know x'' = 0 at t = delta_t
0 = a + b*delta_t + c*delta_t^2
x'' = b*(t - delta_t) + c*(t^2 - delta_t^2)
Integrate
x' = (1/2 * b * t^2) - (delta_t * b * t) + (1/3 * c * t^3) - (delta_t * c * t)
x = (1/6)*b*t^3 - (1/2)*delta_t*b*t^2 + (1/12)*c*t^4 - (1/2)*delta_t^2*c*t^2
Then you plug in delta_t, delta_x and v to these two equations, and if you still trust my ability to solve these after last night, you get:
b = ((30 * v) / (delta_t^2)) - ((48 * delta_x) / (delta_t^3)
c = 24 * ( ((3 * delta_x) / (delta_t^4)) - ((2 * v) / (delta_t^3)) )
You can then plug these into the equation for x', but I'll summarise both of these things in terms of the variables v,t,x and k:
velocity = ((1/2) * b * k^2) - (t * b * k) + ((1/3) * c * k^3) - (t^2 * c * k)
where:
b = ((30 * v) / (t^2)) - ((48 * x) / (t^3)
c = 24 * ( ((3 * x) / (t^4)) - ((2 * v) / (t^3)) )
For safety's sake I've not substituted the values of b and c into the velocity expression, you're free to do that of your own accord.
Ok, so that's the actual content, the rest of this is just rambling. One nice feature of this is that the acceleration is now a continuous function in the sense that it reaches 0 at time delta_t, which is when you stop applying the velocity equation and fix the velocity constant. If you didn't do this, then it would start slowing down again, in fact going down to negative velocity with no limit. We set the acceleration to 0 so the point delta_t would be a maximum, and it is in fact the maximum positive velocity, but not negative :- ).
My only other comment would be a possible improvement to the scheme if you needed improved accuracy. The idea is this: use the expression for distance rather than velocity(!)
What you do is calculate the point that the projectile *should* be at in 0.1 seconds time(the moment you next think). Since you have the equation in full, this is quite possible. Then, since you know you're going to be travelling at a constant velocity until that point, work out the distance between your current location and that target spot, and use the normal equation for working out constant speed:
speed = distance / time
This velocity should very closely match the calculated one, but because it takes into account the position you actually reached, it'll be better at matching the positions given by x. Will it be perfect?
Well, no, it won't, even if you ignore floating point precision. The problem is that when you tell quake to think in 0.1 seconds, it actually thinks at the start of the next frame which is rendered not less than 0.1 seconds later. This could be different from 0.1 by 1/fps - and in fact this affects everything in the quake world, monster animations, player attack rates. So there's still that extra 1/fps * velocity that you'll overshoot by. The important thing about this iterative method is the next think will take into account the overshoot you performed, so you should only ever have one frame's worth of inaccuracy.
You could even attempt to correct for this factor by assuming that the framerate at the time of the nextthink will probably be similar to the current framerate(in QC the global float frametime denotes the time taken to render the last frame). Of course, there is such thing as taking it too far...
The last, is it only four paragraphs? - aren't actually suggestions you need to impliment, the velocity method you've been using before should be fine if you just use this new formula with it. It's more just me putting some ideas out there on how inaccuracy in quake thanks to the framerate can be handled better. And if you do decide you want the extra precision, do let us know how it goes, most of these thoughts are theoretical...
Preach
#5514 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/04 14:20:50
My brain don't 'alf 'urt!
#5515 posted by maxpower [70.92.242.194] on 2006/11/04 14:41:33
I am making a counter strike mod for quake. And i want to make a new func_ brush for the escape zone for VIPs how would i go about doing this?
Taking A Break From Uber Math
#5516 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/04 15:58:04
(i need time to digest that...)
in response to 5515:
you could probably just use the trigger_multiple code and change it so that it can be triggered only by monsters (or in this case vips).
however, the question is so general in nature, it's really hard to help beyond that. also, why would you make a counter strike mod for quake? it doesn't seem to make sense, since the original counter strike was for Half life, which itself was an updated version of the quake engine, you're basically taking a step back. just play the HL version. that's just my gripe, anyway. :P
now, on to the math... o.o
Hmmm
#5517 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.176] on 2006/11/04 16:50:31
maybe the radiosity used for lighting in the original Half Life makes his eyes bleed and he is looking for something more sedate for his optical nerves.
But, still, Counterstrike ? Just kidding. It could present some interesting AI challenges but the game isn't my cup of tea.
Also,
#5518 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.176] on 2006/11/04 16:53:42
You may find it useful to read through the QuakeC tutorials on http://minion.planetquake.gamespy....
He covers how to build several different multiplayer oriented game modes in QuakeC. You'll probably get a good grasp on how to approach doing a CounterStrike mod.
#5519 posted by maxpower [70.92.242.194] on 2006/11/04 19:42:42
Well its not really counter strike. I am taking quake engine and making and Terrorist vs Counter-Terrorist game. So i have to make my own textures, i have to change the engine a little, need to edit the weapons, i have the models already. So if anyone wants to help me out email me hawkins83@gmail.com
Preach
#5520 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/05 01:03:53
hopefully you're not getting tired of doing math... hehehe, there is still a problem with it :P
first: there were some brackets missing. i added them in as best as i could figure out, and i have:
b = (((30 * v) / (t*t)) - ((48 * x) / (t*t*t)));
c = (24 * ( ((3 * x) / (t*t*t*t)) - ((2 * v) / (t*t*t)) ));
velocity = vector * ( ((1/2) * b * k*k) - (t * b * k) + ((1/3) * c * k*k*k) - (t*t * c * k) );
(got quake to sub it for me, yay!)
i think you're really close now. the movement is look good, but it goes to much to fast a speed, as well as goes in the wrong direction. i'm guess it's just a couple of bad constants and possibly a flipped sign? i hope anyway...
i'm actually surprised quake can handle all that math... i was bracing myself for some kind of error: zomg, let me shoot grenades already!
i'll make sure there's a big phat thank you in the read me. :P
One Constant
#5521 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2006/11/05 04:46:46
I think I've spotted a constant that's wrong, change c to
c = (12 * ( ((3 * x) / (t*t*t*t)) - ((2 * v) / (t*t*t)) ));
Having looked at the graph of this function, I still get the feeling it's not working correctly, I'll have another think.
Kell...
#5522 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/11/05 21:01:13
...in the Chapters pack, upon returning to the start map once a level was completed the entrance to that level was blocked. Is this a hack? If not, is the code required incorporated into Quoth? If not, might you or necros slip it in...as I'm beginning to toy with an Id base start map.
.
#5523 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/06 00:23:20
it is part of the quoth progs. see the quoth tutorial: mapindex info on how it works.
#5524 posted by Trinca [89.180.25.35] on 2006/11/06 11:31:08
necros or kell!!!
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/why.jpg
monster spawn right away :| and only should when trigger are active!!! any idear?
.
#5525 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/06 12:55:10
because you don't have the right spawnflags set. i see the vore's spawnflags are set to 7, but the trigger_spawn flag is 64.
spawnflag 7 means bit 1,2 and 4 are set, but bits 2 and 4 aren't anything at all. i see the ambush flag is set, so the true spawnflag value should be 65 (64 + 1).
#5526 posted by Trinca [61.189.240.196] on 2006/11/06 14:23:06
got it ;) thks!!!
<--Slapped!
#5527 posted by generic [69.244.208.113] on 2006/11/06 15:07:32
Cheers, Kell :) (from before)
Wooot...
#5528 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2006/11/06 20:05:40
...thanx necros
Sound/Music
#5529 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/11 05:03:07
A lack of understanding on my part...
When sound files are pre-cashed how does the size of the file i.e. 450k or 4.5M or 45M, affect the engine.
The reason for the question is that I have some music that I want to add to a map, and I then thought I would add several pieces of music, which totals about 45M. What bad things might I be doing to the engine that will/may affect the playability of the map.
Any pointers regarding the use of sound files will be appreciated.
Mike
#5530 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 06:41:05
It is a good question as I'd like to add some custom sounds to a future project.
to summarize I'd like to know what are the limitations of engineds regarding sounds pre-caching ?
Engine Sounds
#5531 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.15] on 2006/11/11 07:34:25
I'm not sure about the memory load, but I'd guess that the sounds go into the Quake heap, so you might need to increase heapsize. 45M just for sounds is a bit much ...
As for amount of precached sounds, it's 256 in normal engines, 1024 in mine and possibly even higher in DP. You can use the soundlist command to check current load.
The amount of sounds are protocol limited as with models, so it's not just to raise the limit.
Another Question About Sounds
#5532 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 09:04:41
Thanks aguirRe for these informations !
OYOH, I'm looking for a good (free) wave editor that would allow me to edit / modify / save sounds... I also would like to make .wav "loopable" (i.e data chunk addition). Which tool would you recommend me ? And where to download as well ? ;P
Here Is One
#5533 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.241] on 2006/11/11 09:32:09
I like using:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
HT
#5534 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 09:55:12
Thanks, I have it... but where can I make a .wav file "loopable" ? I still didn't find the option...
Return Of The Maths
#5535 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2006/11/11 12:46:20
Yup, another lengthy set of calculations from Preach. Feel free to skip to the good bits marked in white : - )
Ok, so I looked long and hard at the algebra, and eventually managed to bash out something that works - in a limited way:
x' = (a * k^3) + (b * k^2) + (c * k)
where
a = ((12 * x)-(8*v*t))/(t^4)
b = ((15 * v * t)-(24 * x))/(t * t * t)
c =(-3 * a * t * t)-(2 * b * t)
Same idea as last time, just with the maths correct. So I tested it out with t = 2, x = 10 and v = 10 and the graph looks just fine. Then I decided to test it with 2, 128 and 64. It doesn't work. So I'm about to go back to the drawing board when...
If you look at the values of v=64, t=2 and x=128 there, you notice that they are the of values x and t if the object had a constant(or "average") velocity of v. So if the object starts at rest, it must spend some time at low speeds. Consequently, any solution which starts at at rest and ends at x must spend some time at a speed above v to keep the average speed at v. So the only solution which never exceeds v is the one with constant velocity.
(exercise for the keen mathmo - prove from the definition of a continuous function and the Riemann integral that a continuous function of the form we require cannot exist!)
So, that doesn't seem too good, but the question does arise - what combinations of speeds, distances and time will allow for a solution? And of these, how many does our current solution allow for?
Well, the first thing we want is for the rate of change of the acceleration to be negative at time t. If it is positive, we've already had negative acceleration and it's going back into positive at this point.
So we look at
6 * a * t + 2 * b
If this quantity is positive then we are not going to get a solution that stays below the final velocity. In terms of the original parameters this gives
4*x - 3*v*t < 0, or v > 4/3*(x/t)
So that's a good condition, x/t is the average speed and if we're starting from 0 we'd better allow the maximum speed to be 4/3 of that. Well, it makes sense that it's some fraction of the average speed, it's much harder to see why it should be 4/3.
So that's one restriction. The other problem is that if you take the final velocity to be too large, the solution will go negative at the start in order to accomodate this - taking a run up if you will. So what's the condition for this to not occur? Well, the acceleration is a quadratic in time, so it takes the value 0 at 1 or 2 points(we've defined it in such a way that k = t is one such solution, some quadratics of course have none). So the problem arises when the other solution is positive, but less than the one we want of k = t.
Ok, so we want to factorise the expression for the acceleration:
x'' = 3*(a * k^2) + 2*(b * k) + c = 0
This could be tricky except we know one root, t:
3*(a * k^2) + 2*(b * k) + c = (k - t)(3ak + r)
= 3*(a * k^2) + (-3*a*t + r) * k - r*t
for some constant r. Hence
r - 3*a*t = b
We want -r/3a(the true root of this equation) to be negative. Plug the expressions for a and b in and you get the condition:
(6*v*t*t - 12*x*t)/3*(12*x - 8*v*t) > 0
Be careful! If you multiply through by the denominator you might think you get v > 2*(x/t). However, if the denominator is negative you must reverse the sign of the inequality when you multiply though. So we require either
12*x - 8*v*t > 0 AND
v > 2*(x/t) or
12*x - 8*v*t < 0 AND
v < 2*(x/t)
Phew, ok, those are the rules for this solution to not have negative acceleration for its duration. It'll still work for any given boundary conditions, but it'll do wierd things like speeding up above the final speed(often not so bad) or going backwards first(probably worse). In a bit I'll post some more about alternative models that are less restrictive, and ask the question "when is there no solution at all?".
Cool Edit
#5536 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/11 13:04:06
can make your wav's loopable. It's free.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multi...
for small wav's 3Dinside has a small tuttorial.
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
MadFox
#5537 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 13:14:43
Yes it is a fre trial version... I'll test ir.. Thanks :)
Sound Issue... Still Continuing...
#5538 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 13:32:33
OK, I opened a .wav and I tried to converted it into a loop .wav file... Nevertheless, when I try it in Quake (using the Quoth ambient_generalpurpose item) there's a message stating "sound <path/sound.wav> not looped" o_O ..
So, from where comes the issue ? Is the .wav format having an effect on the engine (sampling time is 22kHz, mono mode, loop enabled)?
Jesus O.o
#5539 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/11 13:45:44
this whole thing was so i could make accelerating and decelerating doors like in Doom3. you would specify movetime, acceltime and deceltime.
movetime being the total movement time and acceltime and deceltime taking up chunks of time from movetime (so movetime=8, acceltime=2, deceltime=4 means 2 seconds accelerating, 2 seconds moving at constant velocity and 4 seconds decelrating)
surely the math can't be so complex?? i mean, i'm sure the iD guys are smart, but that seems overly complex! is there some way to fake it without this massive amount of operations? it just seems to me like it's more trouble than it's worth :( i mean, appreciate what you're tyring to do, but i don't want to tie up all your time on this stuff :x
i'll have to look into getting some D3 source code stuff, maybe the secret can be gleaned from there... :S
Jpl:
#5540 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/11 13:48:45
no point having 22khz, since quake only supports 11khz, it'll downsample it itself and you're just wasting memory.
i noticed that quake uses different markers for looping sounds. usually music programs use 'sustain' loop markers for looping, but quake seems to use region markers.
Nah, That's Easy
#5541 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2006/11/11 14:46:48
Because the thing there is, you are allowed to control the constant velocity to be anything that you like. Picture(in fact, draw a copy, it'll help the explanation) a trapeseum for the graph of velocity against time, with constant slope upwards for the accelerating portion, constant slope downwards for the decelerating portion, and a horizontal line joining the two. You now need a simple result from calculus to tell you that the distance travelled is the area beneath the velocity curve and the line
v = 0.
So, we calculate the area of this trapeseum. Divide it into two right-angled triangles and a square. The triangles have base acceltime and deceltime, so the area enclosed is 1/2*(acceltime + deceltime)*v, where v is a constant speed that we will calculate later.
The square has base movetime - (acceltime + deceltime) so the area is [movetime - (acceltime + deceltime)]*v. Sum all these areas and we get:
[movetime - ((acceltime + deceltime)/2)]*v = delta_x
So, solve this for v by dividing through.
v = delta_x / [movetime - ((acceltime + deceltime)/2)]
It's not worth doing this calculation every time the door moves, do it once when the door spawns and store it in the door's .speed field.
This gives us the constant velocity for the middle section of the motion, but we still need a simple formula for the velocity at each end. It's what you'd expect:
x'(t) = v * t / acceltime for the accelerating phase and
x'(t) = v * (movetime - t) / deceltime for the decelerating phase.
And that's it, very short and sweet.
So how does it relate to the other problem? Well, imagine that we didn't have the freedom to choose the velocity for the constant speed, but we can join the origin and the first part of the horizontal line by any curve that we like(or any strictly increasing curve if you prefer). Ignore the decelerating phase at this point.
We have to choose the shape of this curve so that the area underneath it plus the area below the constant velocity section adds up to the right distance. We can see that we're limited already as the curve isn't allowed to go above the horizontal line for v, and it can't have negative area. So we've got v*acceltime area to play with, and in theory we can come up with a curve for any area between 0 and v*acceltime, ie distances between 0 and v*acceltime have theoretical solutions.
Now, I think that in theory the area under a function of the form
((a*(acceltime-t))^p + (b*x')^p)^(1/p) = v will take any area from 0 to v*acceltime, for the correct value of p between 0 and infinity. For instance with p = 2 and the correct scaling you'd have the equation of an ellipse through the origin and (acceltime,v), and p = 1 is the straight line solution we've already seen. I'd hazard a = v/acceltime and b = 1 as the right scaling but don't hold me to it.
Anyway, that's all academic really as you'd have to solve for p, which isn't easy under the best of circumstances. QC just isn't going to cut it at all. But it's nice to see it can be done in theory : - )
Necros
#5542 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.239] on 2006/11/11 18:24:58
It seems that you need to be able to divide the total time that the door operates into segments. In the secret door code functions you already have an example of this available (first second cues sound, second second the door is pulled backwards . . . etc).
The first part of the problem would be to add a factor that allows you to
predetermine the length of time it takes to arrive at the destination.
If it takes 1 second to reach 64 units then plug in an equation that divides the total number of unit segments that need to be moved and then divides that result by the movetime.
So a door that moves 128 units whose move time is 8 is traveling at a constant of .25 seconds. Once you have a constant, you can plug in variables that will give you the acceleration and deceleration you are looking to add.
The movement code in the secret door function is in this bit of code.
SUB_CalcMove(self.dest1, self.speed, fd_secret_move1);
you'll need to get it to use movetime as a countdown (The loop controling the function would look something like this) a = 0, if a > movetime then stop!, a = a + 1) so you can force it to plug in a change for the self.speed for each segment of the movetime countdown.
.
#5543 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/11 20:27:03
yeah, none of that was the problem. it was just solving the change in acceleration such that it would arrive on time.
Hmm
#5544 posted by HeadThump [4.136.249.239] on 2006/11/11 21:46:28
keeping things simple, you would gauge deceltime with acceltime so we can easily balance this factor out of the equation and all we have to deal with is the time of constant velocity.
dt/at
Then you will need to find the difference between the constant .25 with the 2 seconds
of constant velocity divided by the number decel seconds, and add to the dec modifier which you use to decriment the speed in the last four seconds.
so if the basic aceltime unit is self.speed = self.speed + .2 than 4/2, .2/2, the the first variable for the decrement in deceltime will be a convenient self.speed = self.speed - .1.
Now for the second variabl in the decrement equation.
Constant velocity reached self.speed + .4, times this by the number of seconds of constant velocity and you get .8, then divide by number of seconds of decelaeration (4) = .2.
So we add this to the first total and adjust the deceleration speed to self.speed = self.speed - .3 and that will get us there in 8 seconds.
Sounds In Quake
#5545 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/11 22:47:25
no point having 22khz, since quake only supports 11khz, it'll downsample it itself and you're just wasting memory.
OK, not a big deal to downsample the file... with any sound editor...
i noticed that quake uses different markers for looping sounds. usually music programs use 'sustain' loop markers for looping, but quake seems to use region markers.
So, how to manage it properly when saving the .wav file ? I saw aloop enable option in Cool Edit, but it is avalaible without any "extra" options about the way it is marked in the file... ?
OTOH, is there a good tutorial for sound creatio for Quake (like there are some texture creation tutorials)?
JPL
#5546 posted by negke [82.83.45.164] on 2006/11/12 00:21:46
in cool edit, just flag the loop field in the wave properties and the sound loops in quake.
Neg!ke
#5547 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/12 03:31:20
I did it, but it doesn't loop in Quake... note I even save the .wav file after that :P
furthermore, I tested the sound with play_sound_triggered item, and the sound has been played properly, so the .wav file is not the cause.... maybe the loop info..
So where's the issue ? Any idea ?
Oh
#5548 posted by negke [82.83.45.164] on 2006/11/12 04:09:37
in an older version of cooledit it worked like that (at least iirc).
then you'll have to set
(loop) markers at start/end.
Neg!ke
#5549 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/12 04:14:46
Thanks, I'll take a look.
YEEeeessss !!!
#5550 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/12 05:45:01
Neg!ke, even if the loop properties was set correctly, it was missing the loop marker. I added it and it is working fine now...
I'm now able to add new sounds to my map... Thanks a lot ! You rock !
Cool
#5551 posted by MadFox [84.26.78.10] on 2006/11/12 13:04:24
jpl
#5552 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/14 06:25:15
can anyone explain me why doesn´t the fucking door dont work after i pass? :\
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/l.zip
thks in advance!
Trinca
#5553 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/14 06:48:00
I'm getting a 'not a valid file' error from Winzip.
#5554 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/14 07:19:48
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/l.bsp
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/l.map
Trinca
#5555 posted by negke [82.83.54.128] on 2006/11/14 09:37:59
standard triggers can only have one single function: target or killtarget or message.
put the message in a trigger_relay with the same targetname as the door and it works.
QuakeC Query
#5556 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/15 13:08:18
I want to have a func_button (for a deliberate player action) and a trigger_once (for a non-deliberate/unintentional action) pointing to the same target.
Can I tell from within the target's function, which of the two activated the target? This would enable me to give a different response e.g. if activated by a button, do this, else do that (to the targeted entity)
Not Easily...
#5557 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/15 16:59:11
As far as I can see, there isn't a nice self contained way to do it - meaning a way to write it that doesn't involve changing the code for the buttons and the trigger_once in some way. There is a global entity variable called "activator" that stores who is performing the triggering when something uses its targets. Unfortunately this stores the player entity that pressed the button, not the button entity itself. This inspires us to create such a global to store the entity that is doing the actual using, which I will refer to as the "mechanism"(although effector might be a better term).
Ok, first open up defs.qc and add to the bottom:
entity mechanism;
We will use this global to store the entity that is enacting the trigger, for example the button or trigger.
Next up is subs.qc, find the function
SUB_UseTargets
Right at the top of it add a temporary entity called "mech" to the existing list, followed immediately by this code:
if(self.classname == "DelayedUse")
mech = self.owner;
else
mech = self;
Next add
t.owner = self;
right after the line
t.target = self.target;
This relates to the DelayedUse line above, so that if the trigger has a delay, we still count the mechanism as the real trigger, not this temporary entity.
Now go down to the big loop at the bottom and add
mechanism = mech;
right above the line
t = find (t, targetname, self.target);
in the loop marked //fire targets(not the killtarget loop). We keep resetting this each time we run the loop, as each time we trigger something it might call SUB_UseTargets itself, which may change mechanism.
Now it's very simple to test which one of your entities set off the thing. In your new entity's use function, perform a check like
if(mechanism.classname == "func_button")
do stuff
else
do other stuff
I think this is a fairly robust system, but I've not tested it so just say if there are problems.
Preach
#5558 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/15 23:48:45
Thanks, this looks good.
I will test it later this evening and report back.
Illusionary + Efrags
#5559 posted by negke [82.82.176.216] on 2006/11/16 01:30:51
i have a lot func_illusionaries consisting of several brushes which are seperated from each other. this gives 'too many efrags' warnings. changing them to func_walls solves the problem, but i'd rather have them be nonsolid. creating a seperate func_illusionary for every single brush is out of question because (i think) there are more than 128.
so what's the principle underlying this, how far can the brushes be apart from each other, what's the difference between static and dynamic entites concerning this distance?
Preach
#5560 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/16 05:45:03
Said in English with a very French accent and much overuse of the hands...
...soooperrrb!!
Thanks.
Negike:
#5561 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/11/16 13:28:44
I don't fully understand efrags, but from what I do understand, any large entity is divided into multiple efrags based on how many nodes of the BSP it occupies. This is why a large func_* with many seperate small parts is problematic.
I also don't know if/why it's different for func_wall vs. func_illusionary. But the one obvious difference is func_illusionary is a static object, and func_wall is an edict. So maybe that is partly why.
#5562 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/17 05:37:23
why in gl i dont have any HOM´s and in software i got a lot of then? is there any way to solve this?
Light Attenuation
#5563 posted by ijed [200.113.171.158] on 2006/11/17 08:59:02
how can i attenuate a spotlight (light with a target) in quake - pretty sure ive read something on this somewhere but can't remember where. if i remember rightly its just a single key with float value . . .
neg!ke - why not just split the big 128 brush illusionary into 2x64 brush versions? if that doesn't work split into 4x32 and so on until you get rid of the error. don't know if that'll work because i haven't come across the problem before.
Trinca:
#5564 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/11/17 12:30:35
The thing you're describing is called "greyflash" -- solution: increase r_maxsurfs and r_maxedges in the console.
Ijed:
#5565 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/18 00:14:29
aguire's light has support for custom light attentuation on spotlights. the text on his site outlines how it works
#5566 posted by negke [82.82.183.235] on 2006/11/18 01:36:29
metl: yes, static entities are definately treated differently in this respect. the first few illusionaries worked fine, the warnings only started to appear after a certain amount, i think.
ijed: i meant there are probably more than 128 (limit for static ents) brushes to be illusionary'd scattered throughout the map. most of the objects consist of around 5 brushes. apparently, that's too much already if they aren't close enough together.
my main concern was they could block the monsters but then again it wouldn't be that much of a problem either.. i might do some more tests.
Hacks And Stuff
#5567 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2006/11/18 05:43:42
You could always use the non-static illusionary hack to make some of them info_nonulls with models, I think I've posted it somewhere in the teaching progs new tricks thread. Or if you're using a custom progs, making an info_illusionary clone that isn't a static entity is very easy.
:/
#5568 posted by ijed [201.222.201.128] on 2006/11/18 07:00:21
just read back through aguire´s readme´s and found the relevant stuff on lighting - amazing how much control is possible, and that i forgot to check there first.
reckon preach has the dodge for the static entity limit problem . . . sounds like the only way to solve it without is by testing, as you say.
Hmm...
#5569 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.26] on 2006/11/18 07:24:03
the question just posed itself:
can I make two Quake2 teleporters point at each other, like their Quake1 counterparts? Can I do a teleporter setup like in DM6 in Quake2?
Quake2 has no trigger_teleport, but instead uses misc_teleporter, which like monsters is associated with a specific model (the idiotic disc-and-particle-thing.) Can I make it use a different model (perhaps a nice slipgate?)
Anyone knows the answers by heart or do I have to build a test map?
another question: does anyone have linux binaries of qbsp3/qvis3/qrad3 and is willing to share them? Shit just doesn't compile here. No idea why.
Without them, even a test map is hypothetical :-(
Lazarus
#5570 posted by ijed [201.222.201.128] on 2006/11/18 09:12:39
was a great mod that does exactly want you want - trigger_teleport, but it forces you to use the mod, which means for DM it probably isnt what you want. you can change the model (the base) for anything you like (big rectangle with slipgate texture) although it´ll be solid, if memory serves, and the texture won´t animate, it´ll also keep the glittery yellow particle effect. its probably best just to delete the model from inside the md2 inside the pack and place it next to world geometry as you would for q1 (except it´ll be 32x32x64 for the teleport box) but since this´d mean modifying the pack anyway you might be better off with lazarus, which´ll save you from fucking about - it also has alot of other extremely nifty stuff in there, since its made for mappers and not players; it doesn´t modify weapons or anything, just gives you alot more options, like misc_actor and (very clever)monster AI.
Lazarus
#5571 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.26] on 2006/11/18 11:04:28
I know... I actually use the lazarus library for normal playing (better monster AI among other things.) but as you say, DM maps should work with stock quake.
I guess I can live with the particle fountain thingy. Guess what; I found out that you can use an info_notnull for the teleport destination :-) now that's far more flexible than those red discs! (by the way, you can aim two misc_teleporters at each other, but you keep bouncing back and forth.)
I got something to halfway work and now I can at least make .bsp files (no vis or rad sadly.)
Quake1's teleporter setup is much more elegant though. You can have invisible/huge/tiny/... teleporters in Q1. Not so in Q2. Probably no teleport traps, too (no trigger_teleport).
Sucky.
Golden_boy
#5572 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2006/11/18 15:38:00
There is something like if you bury a misc_teleporter 6 or 8 units into the floor, then the disc and particles no longer appear in game, but you can still teleport like normal. Try that.
Also, as you tiggered out, target the teleporters at something just in front of the other teleporter (isn't there a misc_teleport_destination?) instead of at the other teleporter itself.
.map .pk3
#5573 posted by ==Z== ze0. [142.179.255.121] on 2006/11/18 21:51:26
I need help with loading Wolfenstein ET maps, for some reson i can't see the maps in Wolfenstein ET/etmain through GtkRadiant-ET-1.3
O.o i can see them if i just navigat from
My Computer\Program Files\games\Wolfenstein ET\etmain. (sorry not very discriptive lol)
please post or i would perfer you added me: Aim_Bots_Unspecified@msn.com
Thank you for your support
RPG
#5574 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.80] on 2006/11/19 05:05:07
yep, there is a misc_teleporter_dest (or something) but it's another giant red disc. If I'd use that, it would a) look funny and b) the particle fountain and the disc need some minimum distance which messes up double-teleporting. luckily, the info_notnull works very well (just like an info_teleport_destination), I'm now using it throughout. I'll also be able to properly port DM6 now, something I look forward to. :-)
the burying in the ground is something I'll try but I'd rather avoid anything that might introduce unstableness. I found out that you can turn the particles off with a cvar, so only the disc remains.
however, the trick you mentioned might allow me to build slipgates... I'll try. Thank you.
.map .pk3
#5575 posted by ==Z== ze0. [142.179.255.121] on 2006/11/20 15:56:50
A quote to my last msg i can only load up the Goldrush maps such as goldrush, Super Goldrush final and thats it, i tryed ziping some of the other maps and changing the file type and then loading up the map and it comes up with an error like this Warning:Line 2 is incomplete
Thank you for your support
==Z== Ze0
#5576 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/11/20 23:48:32
.. could you elaborate exactly on what you try to do as it is a little bit confusing. I'm not sure to understand what is your problem...
Probably
#5577 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.27] on 2006/11/21 00:27:17
something is unaligned in your map file compared to the standard format (well, whatever the parser is expecting in the editor). Sometimes when I use a Q3 to Q1 map conversion tool, I notice that it will add an extra quote to an entity listing ""worldspawn" instead of "worldspawn".
The easiest way to fix this particular problem is to put the map through a text editor using the find/replace option.
If you are not familar with what to expect when examining map files (I assume that goldrush is Quake related though it may just be Neal Young, great cover by Natalie Merchant related, har har), examine a freely available map file where everything is perfect, like Antidelevian, for instance, in a text editor and compare with your file to see if there are any descrepencies.
Goldrush Is One Of The Official Wolf:ET Maps
#5578 posted by BlackDog [58.7.189.88] on 2006/11/21 01:50:30
Note that .map is not the same as .bsp, and et doesn't actually come with any .map files (that I know of). You can't edit .bsp files with radiant.
If you want to edit a .map file contained in a pk3, pull it out of the pk3 and into etmain/maps/. Radiant should see it fine from there.
.map .pk3
#5579 posted by ==Z== ze0. [142.179.255.121] on 2006/11/21 16:04:49
ok how do i pull it out of a .pk3 file format, could i zip the map file and chang the .pk3 to .map?
==Z== Ze0
#5580 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/21 23:04:25
No, I don't think you can do that. You can extract map from a .pk3 with WinZip, but in order to create a pak file, I uess you need a special tool... not sure...
More Help With Sound?
#5581 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/22 02:56:26
I have a sound file that plays at a constant volume. In-game I want to adjust the volume level of that sound file according to player action but I do not want to use another sound file.
If I adjust the volume and play the sound again then the sound file will simply play from the begining at the new volume level, and although this is easy to achieve, it is not the effect I am looking for.
Is it possible to affect the volume using qc whilst the sound is playing?
To Clarify...
#5582 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/22 03:05:13
I am only trying to affect the volume of the one selected sound file that is playing, not the overall sound level of the game.
#5583 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/22 04:15:53
why cant i make a func_door with clip texture? grrrrrrrrrrrrr
.map .pk3
#5584 posted by ==Z== ze0. [142.179.255.121] on 2006/11/22 04:20:52
ok thank you for all your help, ill mess around with the file type for a bit, Good luck and God Bless.
if have any success ill let you know
Mike And Trinca
#5585 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/22 05:16:54
Mike: I can't think of any good way to do that with QC, I don't even think something hacky like moving the source entity away from the player to diminish the sound would work. You might want to try asking on inside3d though, they can work wonders over there.
Trinca: I think it's just a compiler restriction. You can achieve nearly the same effect by using the "skip" texture and running the skippy tool on your BSP. Skippy has been discussed here a few times and you can grab it from http://disenchant.net/files/temp/s... if you don't already have a copy. The main difference you'll see it that the skip brush will be solid to point sized entities like nails/missiles.
#5586 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/22 05:20:55
thks i will try but i think it gave me some errors the last time i use it... fuck me up the hole .bsp :\ so might not work!
Skip Tool
#5587 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/22 05:33:16
Skip tool would effectively to be refined in order to avoid to generate an HOMs-full map in certain cases..
Skip
#5588 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/22 07:53:13
I think skip is much safer on func_ entities than it is on the actual map, seeing at they don't have the same vis calculations performed on them, and won't ever have to be the surface that's between the player and the void(assuming the map is sealed).
Mike
#5589 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/22 09:48:55
it is impossible :S
although, if the sound was really short, like say 0.1 seconds or something, then you could probably achieve the effect just because it probably wouldn't be noticed that the sound is starting back at the beginning all the time if you adjusted volume every 0.1 seconds.
in fact, you could maybe do that unless the sound was like say 30 seconds long. if it's 2 seconds, then change volume every 2 seconds, if it's 0.7 do it ever 0.7 etc...
Necros
#5590 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/22 10:13:56
Oh dear, I thought this may be the case. It's deja vu recurring again once more!
#5591 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/22 10:22:34
Aguire can u change Txqbsp.exe to accepted the the clip textures in entities? i want to put clip texture in a func_door :\
Forget :\
#5592 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/11/22 10:23:01
or is a engine problem?
Trinca
#5593 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/22 11:26:58
Have you considered func_movewall, which is used to emulate collision on rotating objects?
I am not sure what you are trying to do with clip tex on doors so if this suggestion is out of line, just ignore it.
Trinca
#5594 posted by negke [82.83.48.244] on 2006/11/22 11:52:21
you can have clip brushes in a func_door volume as long as they're encompassed by visible brushes, e.g. a clip brush with a border made of textured brushes. it only doesn't work if the door consists solely of clip brushes or the clips exceed the actual door volume.
Clip Brush Ents
#5595 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.132] on 2006/11/22 12:55:02
I don't know about engine issues, but the compiler doesn't accept an entity that has brushes specified, but where in a certain hull (here: hull 0), all the brushes are removed.
The same applies for the world; you can't have a world entirely made out of clip brushes.
To just get the compiler to build, try adding an extra brush (e.g. hidden inside the wall) with a normal texture to the entity.
It still might not work in the engine according to neg!ke's post. I think metl did some tests on this before.
Ok, Since My Speedmap Will Be Released Somewhen Later
#5596 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.201] on 2006/11/22 13:28:32
I have a question about elevators.
I need the following:
Quakeguy encounters the elevator in its lower position. Quakeguy drive upwards with the elevator. Elevator remains in its upper position. Quakeguy walks around and kills monsters. Quakeguy returns to the elevator. Quakeguy drives downwards with the elevator.
I spent quite some time during my speedmap session with it and gave up (neg!ke, don't show anyone what I did instead, *shame*). I assume I could do it with some triggers, but don't know how.
Platform Blues
#5597 posted by Preach [131.111.8.98] on 2006/11/22 13:39:51
I think you could do it by making the "platform" a func_door with the toggle flag set. You have a button you can use once at the bottom of the lift, and another one at the top that you can't get at to press. When you kill the monster, you remove whatever was blocking off the button, and press that to make the lift descend.
Trinca:
#5598 posted by metlslime [69.105.141.35] on 2006/11/22 15:02:58
why cant i make a func_door with clip texture? grrrrrrrrrrrrr
I don't know about the compilers, but there is an engine bug which makes the clip brushes on a func_door sometimes nonsolid. The bounding box of the func_door is generated from hull0 brushes, so if clip brushes are outside that bounding box, you can often pass right through them.
A func_door that is entirely clip would have a zero-sized bounding box, so you might never collide against it.
Also:
#5599 posted by metlslime [69.105.141.35] on 2006/11/22 15:03:46
might be able to use a null modelindex hack or something to make a normal brush invisible. Not sure.
#5600 posted by Trinca [89.180.51.160] on 2006/11/22 16:04:15
thks metlslime i will add a small box in func_doors and try ;)
Numportals
#5601 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2006/11/22 16:11:45
does it mather how high the numportals go?
just asking as vis sais i have over 7700 of em on my recent map
Better Than A Modelindex Hack
#5602 posted by Preach [131.111.8.98] on 2006/11/22 16:34:24
I discovered the important part of this hack a month or so ago, when people wanted glass windows for the base pack. I didn't post it then because there's a drawback to the function you need to use that I felt was too problematic. However, after metl's post there I thought of a neat fix to this problem, so here we go. Note that it still doesn't fix trinca's problem as it'll only work on func_walls(well, entities that don't have think/use functions, so you can have those invisible ammo crates you always wanted too...)
Ok, make a func_wall, and add the following keys:
think info_teleport_destination
nextthink 0.2
That's a pretty cunning function there, for no good reason the info_teleport_destination spawn function has a line setting self.model to "". Still, this bit of leftover code has given us a great hack with only a single drawback. If you compile and try it now, you'll find that you func_wall is invisible, but 20-odd units higher than you left it. And if you try to stand on top of it you'll get stuck - what happened?
Well, in order to stop people getting stuck in the ground when they teleport, the info_teleport_destination is moved 22 units up when it is spawned, by directly changing the origin of the entity. Doing this on a point entity that is just being spawned is safe, but doing it on a brush entity that was spawned 0.2 seconds ago breaks quake's internal physics state.
So this is why I didn't post it before, but there's a solution - use another function that will reset the origin using the setorigin function. In fact I suspect if you just undid the displacement of the func_wall then physics would be fixed, but I don't know of a hackable function to do that, and in any case we might as well do the proper method :-). Ok, add these two keys:
targetname wall
use SUB_CalcMoveDone
That's pretty much it, SUB_CalcMoveDone sets the entity's origin to self.finaldest - but all brush based entities start at '0 0 0' regardless of their bounding box, so we don't have to set finaldest to anything. In fact, you might find some other creative use of this function on other entities, it's basically like a free teleport to self.finaldest. As an added bonus, the entity will then execute the function stored in self.think1.
One final thing, we've put this function in self.use, which doesn't get called automatically like self.think does, so we need another entity to call the think. Knock up a quick info_notnull with fields
think DelayThink
nextthink 0.4
target wall
As long as it thinks after the wall becomes invisible then it'll work, but you want to do it all fairly fast so the player can't encounter the wierd physics anomaly. Now, I'm gonna go play with this new function for a bit, see what else it can do...
.
#5603 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/22 16:40:28
i am constantly amazed at the amount of hackery you can accomplish without touching a single line of code.
As We Said At Office...
#5604 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/11/22 23:57:20
It is not a bug, it is a feature ...
Preach
#5605 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.201] on 2006/11/23 00:52:01
Heh, cheers. I just should not have touched how id built it I think. Works like a charm, thanks. :)
Hell Knights And Lava
#5606 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/23 07:56:28
What is it that allows HellKnights to wade across knee deep lava but Ogres do not?
Umm..
#5607 posted by negke [82.82.183.205] on 2006/11/23 08:46:08
space?
bounding box and stuff...
Nothing
#5608 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/23 10:19:07
but monsters with large bboxes are more limited in movement. they require bigger surfaces for their movement checks. i don't exactly understand how the movement checks work, but that it has something to do with the size of the horizontal area of the bbox and the gap and heights. :S
i'm sure an engine coder could fill you in on the movetogoal code.
Stupid Suggestion?
#5609 posted by Preach [131.111.8.98] on 2006/11/23 11:57:43
If you make it so that the brush of lava is sticking up, and the ground is level across the boundary to the lava(so you have a random floating box of lava on a flat surface) will the ogre wade through it then? How about if you make some steps down into the lava as it is? The hellknight uses a different bounding box to the ogre(player size vs shambler size). So it might just be that hull 2 monsters get clipped again lava differently in the navigation algorithm.
On the other hand, I think it's more likely that the ogre is just too large to navigate the drop down into the lava in the first place(presumably if it's knee deep it's in a channel with a knee deep drop). For instance, in e3m2 you can get ogres to wade through the various pits of shallow lava there, and at the end of 3m6 the vores will walk through - they are also hull 2.
I've noticed there's a problem with models that have a hitbox larger than their physical hull for clipping and MOVETYPE_STEP. I think what happens is when the monster tries to move down the steps the hull moves over the edge of the step and so drops down. But then the engine tries to trace the bounding box to it's new position, and as it's larger than the bounding box it detects a collision on that, so the monster gets moved back up. The end result is a monster that hovers around the edge of a step without descending for a while - eventually it drops down when it moves far enough beyond the step in one go, so that the bounding box clears it too.
I don't know for sure that's what's happening in the engine, but I was having this problem with a monster until I shrunk the hitbox back to the hull size in the x-y plane, and then it stopped happening straight after that. Then again, I recall the ogre having a a fitting hitbox, so this probably isn't the exact problem you're encountering.
Neg!ke, Necros, Preach
#5610 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/23 13:03:24
I had placed the lava as a 'barrier' to monsters and as I had only tested it with Ogres, it seemed to work OK.
Then I decided that this area needed some more monsters and drafted-in a couple of HellKnights. It was a bit of a surprise when they suddenly jumped into the lava and waded across.
I suspect that you are all correct and that it is to do with the bbox: it is a narrow channel 96 units wide and the lava is 24 units deep, with a slight slope dropping four units.
Even without the lava, the ogres will not cross the gap but the HKs just stride straight across.
Oh well, as JPL said earlier, not a bug but a feature. I'll leave it in, maybe it will catch someone (who doesn't read this board).
Or You Can Use Monsterclip
#5611 posted by Preach [131.111.8.98] on 2006/11/23 14:02:15
The new tricks thread has how to create an invisible entity that blocks monsters but not players, in fact it seems to use the same tricks that have been causing problems for trinca. You create a brush with clip texture, and hide a regular textured brush in the wall below. Then make the pair of brushes into a func_wall. Because the clip part of the brush is outside the bounding box of the regular brush, it doesn't clip the player(or monsters moving by flight/ leaping).
However, as MOVETYPE_WALK is a rule unto itself, it actually takes notice of the clip brushes there and won't move monsters across. I have a theory that if you made a thin brush and had a monster that walks far enough to completely pass through the brush in one frame, it could skip the monsterclip. But I've not tested it, it's just intuition.
Now, this all started because the ogres were blocked by the lava but the hellknights weren't. What if you wanted to use monsterclip, but still have the hellknights able to pass through it? Or what if you wanted to reverse the situation and have only the hellknights blocked and not the ogres? Or make a visible func_wall that blocks the player but none of the monsters? It turns out all of these things and more are possible, and I'm gonna post how in the new tricks thread...
Elvis
#5612 posted by neg!ke [82.82.183.205] on 2006/11/23 15:45:57
afaik there is no limit to numportals anymore (at least in aguirRe's tools). 7700 is nothing to be worried about; the other limits are definately more important.
Neg!ke
#5613 posted by Elvis [85.134.11.207] on 2006/11/24 06:29:23
could you tell me all the other limits as i've forgot them, been awhile since my last map, the new map feels smaller in away but is even more detailed then the last so i suppose i'll hit some limit sooner or later.
Easy, Norm, Hard
#5614 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/24 07:48:15
I am having trouble keeping tabs on all of my monsters in the editor. I was thinking of puting all monsters of each skill level into a separate Group so that I can work on each skill level independently by turning these Groups on and off as required. This would mean that if a monster was to appear in all three skill levels, I would have it three times in the map instead of once.
Clearly this would mean that for the sake of me having an easy time of it in the editor, I would 'bloat' the .map file and the .bsp file.
How bad would that be for a map that has (say) 100 on Easy, 150 on Norm and 200 on Hard: that's 450 monsters in the file instead of maybe 200 when using conventional methods i.e. using spawnflags?
Is there any effect on the engine or is it all down to file size?
Bit Of Loading Time
#5615 posted by Preach [131.111.8.97] on 2006/11/24 08:02:08
The skill setting flags are done engine side rather than QC side, so the entities aren't ever loaded into memory if they have the right spawnflag set. The only thing I'd think would result is a bit of a longer loading time as it checks all these monsters when the map loads - and that's going to be pretty fast. It will also bloat the bsp file, but not by a lot, the entire entity section of e1m2 is 40kb in size, and the bsp is 1.3mb.
Preach
#5616 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/24 08:46:11
Thanks. In that case I'm taking the easy option.
Elvis
#5617 posted by negke [82.82.160.32] on 2006/11/25 00:37:09
i don't know all limits by heard, but the ones you should watch out for primarely are marksurfaces and clipnodes (both 32k), as well as the entity limits (e.g. 128 static ents, 256 bmodels and so on)
#5618 posted by Trinca [87.196.247.1] on 2006/11/26 13:09:19
what couses this???
Sz_getspace: 8002 is > full buffer size
if map is in id1 drectory no problem... but in Quoth give me this error... any idear why?
Trinca
#5619 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/26 15:17:16
Too many entities. Reduce their number. Try to combine some b_models into one where possible.
Btw Question
#5620 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/26 15:21:01
why do I always get the message backup past 0 in one place in my map? AguirRe's engine, -developer 1 option.
And I get monster in wall message when monsters spawn high over ground (to avoid accident telefragging them).
Can anyone explain? AguirRe?
.
#5621 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/26 15:24:17
i think the droptofloor doesn't drop monsters if they are too high above a floor, this means that when the monster is checked to see if it can walk or not (ie: stuck in the floor or not on the ground) it will return false, and thus give the error message.
this used to happen in quoth for spawning monsters from func_hordespawn, because i chose to not make spawning monsters droptofloor (in case you used flying monsters) but the error check would come back that they couldn't move (because quake physics hadn't started on them yet and made them fall to the floor).
PuLSaR
#5622 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.26] on 2006/11/27 03:12:35
Backup past 0: I don't know, it happens occasionally without any obvious problems.
Monster in wall: I also don't know, if the monster behaves as desired, ignore the warning.
I think both things can be QC issues as well.
Monster In Wall
#5623 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2006/11/27 05:49:13
The monster in wall check is just like necros said, it's a QC side thing, in the function walkmonster_start_go. The way the QC tests for a monster stuck in a wall is to call walkmove(0,0), the function for walking monsters on the ground. This function returns a float value of 1 if the movement was successful and 0 if it wasn't. If the movement fails then the error message "walkmonster in wall at: " is printed.
The problem is that walkmove can fail(return 0) for three reasons. One is that the monster is stuck in a wall, which is the behaviour the code assumes. The second is if the monster can't physically move that far, like when there is a wall in the way. This cannot happen in this case though, as we are walking the monster 0 units. So you only end up in a wall if you started in one.
The third reason it can fail is if the monster isn't on the ground, as walkmove is only for monsters that are walking on a surface(surprisingly enough). So if the monster is spawned in the air it's going to fail this check. Usually the preceding line of code in walkmonster_start_go drops the monster to the floor first, but if your monster is too high to drop(more than 256 units above a surface) then it won't work.
Since you mentioned avoiding telefragging as the reason the monster is so high, there is another possibility why droptofloor isn't happening. I'm guessing that you're using some kind of spawnflag teleporting, rather than the ID setup of info_telport_destination and teleporters outside the level. Some code(mine included) modify walkmonster_start_go to ignore the droptofloor call - precisely for the reason you're giving, so that the monster teleports in from where they are placed, which is allowed to be in the sky. Of course, then the code should really skip the "monster in wall" check too, as it'll always fail even when the monsters are not stuck. I guess I should contact inside3d about correcting my teleport flag code then...
Skippy
#5624 posted by negke [82.83.62.61] on 2006/11/27 08:54:08
for some reason remove_skip doesn't work on my map. it always stops after saying "bsp is version 29" without removing any faces. could this be related to fact that i'm very close to hitting the marksurfaces limit and have exceeded clipnodes by 10k? compiler is treeqbsp-bjp by the way.
After Exceeding Maxsurfs Etc.
#5625 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2006/11/27 16:39:26
skippy tends to trash the bsp and cause all many of problems.
Oh Well
#5626 posted by negke [82.82.187.137] on 2006/11/28 05:22:56
i changed the object in question to a health trigger. thx
Old Chestnut I Know, But...
#5627 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/28 09:36:32
...I have just added 20+ monsters without making any changes to brushwork. Marksurfaces have risen from 31065 to 31665.
If marksurfaces are created as a result of the way the brushes are split in the qbsp stage, does it mean that monsters can cause a different split? And if so, is there a benefit to keeping monsters off of the ground in the mapping stage.
I ask because I have at least another 80 monsters to go and am in danger of exceeding the marksurface limit, and I want my map to be playable in FitzQuake.
(I am probably getting too tired/old to adhere to the critical technical disciplines of Quake mapping these days)
If So, Easy Fix
#5628 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/28 10:04:34
Compile the map one with all the monster entities in it and let it exceed marksurfaces. Use adquedit or similar to export the entity list to a .ent file. Compile the map again in it's current state(ie. with enough point entities stripped out to compile with marksurfaces under the limit). Then just import the ent file into that copy of the bsp. Equivalently you could do an -onlyents compile to add the monsters back in, and this might be a little easier to set up with batch files.
No...
#5629 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/11/28 12:06:01
monsters have no effect on the bsp tree :)
As for what caused your increase in marksurfaces, I have no idea. Are you sure you didn't do anything?
Also, I've heard rumors which I find very hard to believe that things like vis results are actually different based on the speed of your CPU and stuff... I really have a hard time accepting that the compiles are non-deterministic. But, I don't know everything, so :P
Marsurfaces
#5630 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/28 13:43:14
once I noticed the same thing as Mike did. I exceeded the marksurfaces limit when placing monsters (no brush changes). Wise people told me that monsters don't affect marksurfaces, so I believed them.
Anyway, some maps with exceeded marksufaces limit can still be playable in fitzquake (and all the other engines I think). When I got the crash problem the first time I started making small changes to the map and tried it in the engine each time. After n attempts map started to load without problems. Though I still have no idea what was the case of the problem and solution.
It's kinda Quake mysticism.
Another Question To Coder About Engine Messages
#5631 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/28 13:51:19
I always get a message when I test my map on skill 2 (-developer 1 option, aguire's engine):
TH_STAND CALLED
WALKMONSTER_START_GO WORKED
WTF is this? And why it appears only when I play on hard skill? I suppose that's because of a big ammount of monsters (>200), but I don't get it on skill 1 where monsters are only about 20-30 less. This message dissappears only closer to the end of the map after I kill about 150-170 monsters.
Hm...
#5632 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/28 13:54:26
th_stand is the standing animation for all monsters, and walkmonster_start_go is the function that gets called everytime a new monster is made to set up common stuff between all walking monsters...
but i've never seen error code like that in the qc, so it must be an engine thing...
Necros
#5633 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/28 14:02:15
I doesn't cause any problems (at least I didn't notice them so far). It is just annoying message at the top of the screen. I just wanted to get some ideas of how can I get rid of it.
Pulsar
#5634 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2006/11/28 14:33:10
Are you using a custom mod for this map, perhaps with a custom monster that only appears on hard skill? Those messages sound like the kind of thing I'd add to a monster when diagnosing a bug and trying to pin down where it occurs.
Preach
#5635 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/28 14:40:26
It happens in my map that you've seen (beta1). But I think all custom monsters appear in all skills. So no new custom monsters on skill 2 that weren't on skill 1
PuLSaR
#5636 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.248] on 2006/11/28 15:17:44
Didn't we discuss (and solve) this issue five months ago? It's a bug in the Arcane progs that I later sent you an update for.
Ahh Whoops
#5637 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/28 15:34:21
thought you were talking about stock id progs :)
yep, that'd certainly explain it.
AguirRe
#5638 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.240] on 2006/11/28 17:34:05
indeed, I forgot about it.
The thing is that I found another bug in progs and asked Preach to fix it, but I forgot that I was using your fixed version.
So I have two versions of arcane progs atm: the first - your version without crashing bug but with version with ammo bug and the second - Preach's version without ammo bug but with crashing bug.
I think you should contact with each other and make an ultimate version.
Light Styles
#5639 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/29 08:22:41
Are lights with "style" toggleable? And if not, has some clever person devised a 'hack' to make them so.
I am sure I remember this cropping up quite recently but I can't seem to find anything.
Possible With Qc
#5640 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/11/29 10:07:20
but no way to do with in stock progs, afaik.
toggleable lights have a unique style for every different toggle light (set by the light.exe), which is set to a single light level and only goes from on to off in the progs.
QC Code
#5641 posted by Preach [131.111.8.103] on 2006/11/29 10:30:55
How I suggested to do this last time it came up can be found on the following page:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
But yeah, you need a custom progs to do it.
Necros, Preach
#5642 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/11/29 12:13:40
Thanks.
I Pose A Question For The Quake Geniuses
#5643 posted by Lunaran [67.129.250.254] on 2006/12/01 11:27:40
Hub-style level transitions.
cool, you're still reading.
For a real useful implementation you'd (I'd) want:
o persistent entity states upon returning to a map
o a set of global flags for triggering things across maps
o the final exit trigger to display the intermission with stats for all levels totaled (or even broken down)
What would be necessary for such a thing? There's a lot to do in QC, of course. But QC doesn't have control over saves IIRC - so you would be required to mess around with the engine, no? And if you're messing with the engine, why not just up the limits to allow the whole map in one huge BSP instead?
(the answer to that being, of course, compile time on the map, and ease of messing with savegame code vs. difficulty of raising all internal limits).
So assuming one is not above including an .exe with his maps, what's involved?
I would think the following but go ahead and argue with me cuz I'm dumb:
o Bunch of stuff stuck into the player struct for preserving cross-level trigger flags, and filenames of temp saves used to track recently visited bsp's
o Bunch of additions to endlevel trigger to handle preserving vs. dropping cross-level information, and stashing away level state in a savegame file
o Bunch of additions to player spawning functions to handle preservation of keys and stuff, and correct location within the map based on previous exit trigger
Good Question
#5644 posted by negke [82.82.191.138] on 2006/12/01 12:10:37
i'm interested in this issue too.
some old rpg/adventure-style mod (don't remember the title) had some sort of hub code even back in 1997 or so. but i think it didn't have a 'final intermission' summarizing the stats of all maps...
TDK
#5645 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.45] on 2006/12/01 13:41:55
some old rpg/adventure-style mod (don't remember the title) had some sort of hub code even back in 1997 or so.
The Demon King
Don't Know About Engine Stuffs,
#5646 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/01 13:50:44
but there's is a limited amount of what you are saying in quoth. basically, you can make it save the monster count from previous levels and tally up a total count after a bunch of maps and to also retain certain keys between maps, instead of resetting it. also, there's the mapindex to close off maps after you played them in the start map.
basically, it's just passing numbers from map to map via the parm# floats. monster counts are straight floats, keys and mapblocking are handled with bitflags.
thing is, there are only 15 parm variables, i think. if you were making a new .exe, you could just up the amount of variables passed from map to map, so you could carry along whatever you could possibly need, and just store map settings in variables on the player.
but if you're modifying the exe, you could probably get rid of all this hackery, and make a proper hub engine i suppose...
Hubs
#5647 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.206] on 2006/12/03 05:41:46
Hexen2 which is directly based off Quake has a hub system.
IIRC there's nothing stopping you from looking at the code. I know that there is an open-source Linux port.
Here It Is
#5648 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.206] on 2006/12/03 05:46:38
Hammer of Thyrion
http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net
Hexen2 port for Unix, Mac and Windows
why not email the devs there? they're pretty active.
#5649 posted by NotoriousRay [68.33.252.95] on 2006/12/03 09:05:43
I seem to remember there being an experimental codebase for having a hub using the old (now I beleive not even managed) MHQuake engine. It involved using the FRIK_FILE qc extension (requires engine support also) to automagically save all state changes between individual bsp loads.
oh, and since it's relevant: http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy....
What A Plonker!
#5650 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/03 12:02:28
Without going in to too much detail (it's too embarrassing) I have 'lost' my heavily modified progs.dat.
I have managed to replicate most of it as I kept sources and had notes for my own ideas but I am stuck on one thing: I had monsters who were spawned-in being angry regardless of whether they could see the player. I have an 'angry' flag on the monster (spawnflag = 8) but cannot figure out what actually made him angry when he landed.
I've played with FindTarget and FoundTarget but am getting nowhere. I cannot remember where I got this idea from but as I have added the angry flag to every monster, I must have had something working originally.
Is there any chance that someone knows what I am talking about?
.
#5651 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/03 12:20:50
add this into walkmonster_start_go (and the other ones) at the end. add an if check for the angry flag.
self.enemy = activator;
FoundTarget();
Append:
#5652 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/03 12:21:32
obviously, this means it will only work with a monster that has been triggered to spawn, since a monster that is spawned normally won't have an activator.
Append 2:
#5653 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/03 12:22:58
this also assumes you are running the walkmonster_start function after spawning the monster... if you use the hipnotic method of creating a monster (spawn the monster, but set it invisible without running walkmonster_start, then copying the monster and making the copy run walkmonster_start) it won't work either.
difficult to say without knowing how your spawning works.
Necros
#5654 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/04 02:17:00
I'm using PreachSpawn_v1.0, ("style" "1") so you got the right idea.
'self.enemy = activator;', doh!
As always, thanks for your help.
Mark Surfaces Again
#5655 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/04 05:31:04
Still having problems with fluctuating marksurfaces.
Please see attached file showing editor view, in-game normal and in-game showtris2.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120...
Can anyone explain, or better still tell me how to avoid, the mashing of my brushes?
Mike:
#5656 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2006/12/04 12:28:30
a screenshot showing r_drawflat would be better, since showtris outlines the triangles drawn by the video card, but drawflat shows the polygons created by QBSP more clearly.
As for what's making those cuts, I don't know. Sometimes there's an obvious bit of brushwork nearby that can explain it. QBSP is still a mystery to me.
Take 2
#5657 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/04 13:49:10
Just for completeness:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152...
the ceiling is one brush with nothing else attached above i.e. it touches the void. The 'curve' that we see does not reflect any brushwork on the other side of the visible brushwork. The right-hand wall also touches the void.
With marksurfaces bobbling around 32K and a desire to ensure the map works with FQ, I find myself having to remove trim. I have already cut the map in half and it would defeat the object to split it any more.
Hm..
#5658 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/04 14:16:27
can you force qbsp to split the brush the way you want by first shaping the brushes in the proper pattern, then doing a texture shift of 1 unit difference on each brush so that qbsp doesn't combine them?
Just For Fun
#5659 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/04 14:19:36
I removed the 3 brushes that gave me a curved corner, and this was the result:
---- WriteBSPFile ----
Before After
10568 10559 planes
32563 32164 vertexes
13300 13015 nodes
3107 3106 texinfo
25959 25429 faces
24486 25105 clipnodes
7356 7261 leafs
32165 31634 marksurfaces
119337 117378 surfedges
60330 59343 edges
145 145 textures
Increased clipnodes and decreased marksurfaces.
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8...
If anyone has not yet fallen asleep, what have we learned here?
No, I don't know either. Oh well; plug on, plug on.
Necros
#5660 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/04 14:28:47
The thing is that these are pretty much single brushes: the wall behind the ammo is one, the ceiling is one the two faces are one etc.
Is there an optimum size that qbsp likes to find? (although I would hate to map to specific sized brushes, so perhaps I don't want to know that)
I'm just going drop some more monsters in and then call it a day.
TreeQBSP Users
#5661 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.66] on 2006/12/04 14:34:33
Thanks to ORL, I've found a bug in Tree when having >32k clipnodes that corrupts the clipnode information.
Hopefully I've fixed the bug now, but I recommend switching to TxQBSP permanently as it doesn't have this bug.
AguirRe
#5662 posted by negke [82.82.178.124] on 2006/12/04 23:36:03
but there is no way to have opaque water and solid sky with txqbsp...
AguirRe
#5663 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.78] on 2006/12/05 00:08:06
TxQBSP even for QuArK users? I remember TreeQBSP was recommended for us (if I am not wrong).
Spirit
#5664 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/12/05 00:49:16
TxQBSP run fine even with QuArK... It is just an external program to call from QuArK, and has nothing to do with the editor. Maybe only the saved map format could have an effect (i.e V220, etc..) and I'm not sure about that point.
FYI, I'm currently using QuArK 6.5.0-alpha2 with aguirRe's TxQBSP, aguirRe's VIS, and a aguirRe's modified TyrLight ... and all the stuff works fine ...
#5665 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/12/05 01:25:55
i got same as JPL but QuArK 6.5.0-alpha8 new version of quark :\ suck :((( dont compile my base map :( give lots of errors :( leaks everywehere and say stuff like maxsufarces limit bla bla bla :) errrr i will keep this version a lottttttttttt
Trinca
#5666 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.78] on 2006/12/05 01:32:42
There was something wrong with the new version, they released a bugfixed build.
JPL: It was something with the map format QuArK writes, maybe with the .12345 floating point stuff or something. Dunno.
#5667 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/12/05 01:36:15
thks Spirit_ i think i will stick to this version a litle wile :) is perfect for me!!!
;) i dont have problems at all, despist other poeple say Quark owns!
;o)
ban worldcraft :p
TxQBSP
#5668 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.87] on 2006/12/05 01:49:43
can have opaque liquids, just add -nowatervis. I don't know what you mean by solid sky, both compilers use CONTENTS_SKY for sky.
Tx was originally the *only* compiler for QuArK so it'd better work with it ... ;)
Door Sounds
#5669 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/06 02:16:14
I haven't full vis'd my map yet and get plenty of packet overflows, which I'm not too concerned about.
But would this also account for occasional door opening sounds playing continuously: not every door and not every time?
Yeah,,,
#5670 posted by metlslime [69.181.0.73] on 2006/12/06 02:28:04
packet overflows often result in dropped sounds
Metlslime
#5671 posted by Ekim Mahdoow [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/06 02:53:59
Thanks, I'll carry on not being too concerned then.
Rocks Rock
#5672 posted by efdat [149.225.170.217] on 2006/12/10 00:48:05
just a short question: does anyone know a good tutorial on making good looking rocks? (i don't mean terrain via triangle method, which i already use) i mean rocks like in kona's maps for example. thanx
More Qc
#5673 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/10 10:50:13
How might I emulate ai_forward(x); without using the walkmove function?
I want to move a monster in its forward direction x units where the direction has to be found AND he may be stuck in a wall (which is where the walkmove function (correctly) exits with FALSE).
I guess I can change self.origin but am stumped on how to calculate the new origin taking an unknown direction into account.
Any offers?
.
#5674 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/10 10:56:50
if you set the movetype to MOVETYPE_NOCLIP, does it still abort? with that movetype, the monster wouldn't collide with anything, so walkmove would possibly not abort?
Collision Of Your New Monster
#5675 posted by Preach [217.44.86.35] on 2006/12/10 11:09:55
You've said that the monster may be stuck in a wall at the start of the move, but how should it end the move? Is it ok for the monster to, for instance, be stuck inside another wall? Or inside other entities, possibly including the player? If you're doing some kind of ghostlike creature, that doesn't care about intersecting anything, then the crude way to emulate walkmove would be
makevectors(self.angles);
setorigin(self, self.origin + v_forward * x);
but that's going to do no collision checking, and also move your monster in discrete steps. Of course, in basic quake walkmove moves a monster in discrete steps, but in engines with motion interpolation this usually gets smoothed out. So a better way might be:
makevectors(self.angles);
self.velocity = 0.1 * x * v_forward;
assuming that the monster is going to think in 0.1 seconds time. You must make sure that the following think function either resets the velocity or gives it a new one.
Both of these functions are going to plow the monster straight forwards, so make sure they face the right way first(possibly with ai_face();)
For the velocity one you'll also need to give the monster a movetype that accepts velocity(eg MOVETYPE_NOCLIP). Finally, these functions don't think about the vertical, and the monster won't follow a floor(how could it if it's in a wall...). So there's still a lot to think about.
Necros
#5676 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/10 11:17:54
Yes, I did try changing the movetype but the walkmove function ignores that. I can't fault that as once the game is underway you wouldn't expect to find a monster in a wall.
.
#5677 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/10 11:29:09
what exactly is needed? when you say it needs to find a direction, you mean it needs to be using AI to track towards the player?
Append:
#5678 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/10 11:30:10
if you just want it to move forward in whatever direction it's facing, preach's method will work absolutely fine, btw.
Preach
#5679 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/10 11:32:18
I can ensure that the monster will move into clear space and that he will be on the floor even if he is partly in a wall, and I only want him to move in his forward direction. I can also ensure that he will not collide with either the player or another monster while he is moving.
I will move him only one or two units per animation frame and I have time to ensure that his animation will be complete before any interaction is required.
I'll play with the setorigin version and let you know how I get on.
Thanks both of you.
Hey Efdat,
#5680 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.154] on 2006/12/11 08:41:22
your inquiry kind of got lost up there. I assume you mean the effect Kona commonly uses that blends rock material with building surfaces. This is done the same way that landscapes are handled in Radiant (without the terragen plug-in), except using a vertical surface instead of a horizontal and the end is tapered where you join the surfaces.
I recall a tutorial being linked on QeRadiant.com on how to accomplish this technique, but the site that I was looking (leaf-node) for is no longer available.
The way it is accomplished in Radiant (doesn't work in 1.5, you have to use
earlier versions) though is to make a square or rectangle and duplicate it.
Point your cursor on the side you want to manipulate on the duplicate block, press the left mouse button and cntrl key together and pull in the direction you want it to go. From there it is a matter of aligning several blocks together in a pleasing manner.
HeadThumb
#5681 posted by efdat [89.51.39.233] on 2006/12/11 14:14:04
thanks, i'm gonna try to port those instructions to QuESt (the good old :) i'm afraid that that's the way i'm already doing it (vertical triangles) and i simply have a lack of creative imagination for rock forms. i often have problems with working from a simple brush to natural forms. i thought there might be some kind of standard method that could help me there...
Efdat
#5682 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.239] on 2006/12/11 16:08:45
Don't expect too much from yourself. You don't have to use too many triangles to make it look good. Use pretty large triangles. Make some wedge-shaped faces and some pentangle-shaped... some rock pillars... make some slanted floors and ceilings... just no 90 degree angles. If there are places where the seams look bad, cover it up with a pillar or something. Let the textures and lighting do the work; don't make your rock too detailed and don't light it up like a Yule tree. Break up walls horizontally or vertically into several brushes. Another idea is to build a framework of pillars and iron beams, and put the rock between those. It will look as if the pillars are set into the rock. Small, shallow pools of water are helpful to cover up less-than-imaginative rock formations, too.
I'm making rocks atm for my dm4 remake (I settled on mine theme) and I have those problems a lot.
Mine levels in Q2/Ground zero are really pretty inspiring. I often wonder how little you can get away with.
Movlight How ?
#5683 posted by jiri_b [84.191.170.231] on 2006/12/13 19:18:06
I downloaded the movlight.zip by Marc Fontaine. A modification of a func_train to use for a moving light source in Quake, but
I didn`t get it working. (I use QuArK)
Can somebody help me ?
D3 Map Compile Times
#5684 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/14 13:55:20
what are average times for a map of say, 1k brushes, 500, 4k?
i have this tiny map which is taking forever to compile. i think it's about 500 brushes, possibly less.
i thought the whole point of d3 was that compiling takes a lot less time...
windows reports d3 is using cpu cycles for something, and it's certainly eating up ram... does it just crash without telling you and stay frozen, pretending to compile? :P
btw, no monsters in it, so it's not making any aas files either.
Doh...
#5685 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/14 14:00:37
i post to fast >_< just figured out what the deal is... apparently, i'm not doing skyportals right. :P
Jiri_b
#5686 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/14 14:41:45
I'm sure someone can help but you need to give more information e.g. have you set up a light_move entity with path_corners, are you using the revised progs.dat or have you incorporated the qc files into your own progs.dat, is anything happening and if so, what?
Also, what is your expectation for this - it doesn't light up the room as it moves around, it is simply a moving light source: basically a glowing blob that moves.
Mike
#5687 posted by jiri_b [84.191.172.80] on 2006/12/14 19:20:48
thanks for your answer. I`m a absolute beginner and had the idea of a moving light that lit up the walls while moving, but after some googling for that, I found out that it is very hard or probably not possible at all. This movlight.zip (found in the ID-Database) has an example map, but that has only a moving sprite, not a real light. Today I thought maybe the misc_fireball is something to use for this, but I`m not a programmer. I think this qc-stuff is to heavy for me.
What is the revised progs.dat ?
Jiri_b
#5688 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/15 00:05:25
OK, the moving sprite is all that happens. I don't know of any way of lighting walls and ceilings in the way a hand-torch would light a dark scene, which I suspect that is what you are looking for.
The revised progs.dat that I referred to was supplied in the movelight.zip and needs to be used in place of the standard progs.dat. It contains the necessary compiled .qc files for movelight to work in-game.
The standard way of using these modifications is to set up a separate folder inside your Quake folder e.g. c:\Games\quake\movelight, and extract the files from the zip file into that. Then start Quake with the command -game movelight +map light.
#5689 posted by Trinca [85.88.130.59] on 2006/12/15 04:02:24
hi ladies!
i´m trying to make a .qkr file for Quoth,this way Quark can load the entaties, but when i open the addon in Quark dont reconmize the size that monsters ocupied :\ any help?
http://trinca.no.sapo.pt/Quoth.qrk
just made for two monster´s to test!!! i like Quoth mode a lot and i want to map more for it! so this might be nice when is finish :) and maby someone will find it nice also :|
Mike
#5690 posted by jiri_b [84.191.163.225] on 2006/12/15 08:54:48
Yes, that was exactly the way I tested this "light-map", but as I say, it was only a moving sprite, not a light.
But this lava-blobs are looking like a moving light ( or is it just a fake ?), and if it is really a moving light, it must be possible to change this extension (qc.file) to something new, where you can choose the direction, speed, distance, etc... (in the editor)
Than you have a mov_light extension. Of course you have to compile a custon progs.dat to get it working.
Or did I talk nonsense, I don`t know ?
Light
#5691 posted by Preach [81.153.25.77] on 2006/12/15 09:40:10
Stop me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that you'd like an entity which emits light in the same way as a lavaball or a missile does - a small ball of dynamic bright light. The only difference is that you would like to be able to move this light like a func_train. If this is what you want, then this can be done fairly easily.
Preach
#5692 posted by jiri_b [84.191.163.225] on 2006/12/15 09:49:28
Sounds great. Thats exatly what I&#180;m looking for !
Something Wrong ....
#5693 posted by jiri_b [84.191.163.225] on 2006/12/15 09:53:31
should mean > exactly what I&#180;m looking for!
Wrong Again ?
#5694 posted by jiri_b [84.191.163.225] on 2006/12/15 10:00:24
looks like the apostrophe did not work.
so once again
Thats what I am looking for !!!
Preach
#5695 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/15 10:09:35
The movelight is an s_null.spr with an EF_BRIGHTLIGHT effects.
void() light_move =
{
if (!self.speed)
self.speed = 128;
if (!self.target)
objerror ("light_move without a target");
self.noise = ("misc/null.wav");
precache_sound ("misc/null.wav");
self.noise1 = ("misc/null.wav");
precache_sound ("misc/null.wav");
self.cnt = 1;
self.effects = EF_BRIGHTLIGHT;
self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_PUSH;
self.use = train_use;
self.classname = "movelight";
self.avelocity = '50 50 50';
precache_model ("progs/s_null.spr");
setmodel (self, "progs/s_null.spr");
setsize (self, '0 0 0', '0 0 0');
setorigin (self, self.origin);
self.nextthink = self.ltime + 0.1;
self.think = func_train_find;
};
It is therefore a dynamic light in as much as it moves by use of path_corners but it doesn't dynamically light the set as it moves e.g. the flashlight in HalfLife. I think this is what jiri_b is after.
Hm...
#5696 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/15 12:22:54
could you just make a regular func_train, give it the ef_brightlight .effect and use a skip texture on a 1x1x1 cube? wouldn't need any qc for that
Necros' Solution
#5697 posted by Preach [81.153.25.77] on 2006/12/15 13:43:59
Sounds about right, I'm trying to see if there's a way to make one that's also non solid. I think there is but it may be one of those hacks that's more trouble than it's worth. I'll see...
Otherwise that mod is the way to go, notice how in that code the entity is given a sprite s_null.spr. This is because an entity with no model does not get sent over the network, so clients won't see the light updating position.
#5698 posted by Trinca [87.196.144.103] on 2006/12/16 00:54:54
got it cdunde help me out!
http://www.dark-forge.com/forums/i...
Trinca
#5699 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2006/12/16 02:10:17
Good news for QuArK/Quoth users !
Trinca
#5700 posted by Spirit [80.171.20.233] on 2006/12/16 02:28:48
Good luck. I started that once but gave up early because it was so much work. Haven't got the files anymore, sorry.
Kell/necros
#5701 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.13.249] on 2006/12/16 05:46:02
I'm playing with the Vermis in a small test map and notice that he doesn't follow me (shooting) once I drop below a certain point: he just keeps firing at where I was. I'm no_clipping around the map just to get an idea of what he does.
Is there a specific number of units involved e.g. x units below his centre of origin?
Also, is the spread of the missiles adjustable as if you are too far away you can just sit there and they always seem to miss. Perhaps it is a case that he only fits a certain kind of environment spacewise?
.
#5702 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/16 10:10:56
Perhaps it is a case that he only fits a certain kind of environment spacewise.
exactly right. he, like all monsters, shoot in a cone around his fov. but unlike other monsters, his vertical size is massive, so you'll notice how he won't be able to shoot you when down around his 'waist'.
and yes, his projectile spread is constant. after a certain range, the spores stop being a threat.
designing an area for the vermis really is a matter of plopping him in first, and building the area around him.
if your map has the vermis exposed all the way down to the bottom of the model, you'll need to keep the player away from it because he won't be able to attack you or grab you. on the other hand, if you keep him at grab height, then you can let him get as close to the vermis as you want.
#5703 posted by Trinca [87.196.144.103] on 2006/12/16 10:43:15
necros check your email
Moving Light Again
#5704 posted by jiri_b [84.191.157.12] on 2006/12/18 16:59:39
I tried the easy solution by necros, without qc, but could not get anything working. First tried it with a func_train, but without success. Than thought maybe better start simple and tried to built a fixed light and failed again.
Not shure if I set up everything right in quark.
Here is a screen of the setting.
http://www.kram-hochladen.de/files...
Whats wrong? help
Jir-b
#5705 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2006/12/18 17:20:08
I once had a complete varation of all the possible moving light types, I'm searching...
please give me a link to the movelight.zip and I'll explain.
Movlight.zip
#5706 posted by jiri_b [84.191.157.12] on 2006/12/18 17:39:37
http://www.quaddicted.com/idgames2...
Found Them
#5707 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2006/12/18 17:53:54
here you go...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/movli...
if you need help, ask me.
:) Thanks
#5708 posted by jiri_b [84.191.157.12] on 2006/12/18 17:56:38
You're Welcome
#5709 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2006/12/18 18:10:55
I didn't use the altered progs.dat and it still worked.
only effects 1 and 8 were really interesting.
I saw in the readme you can change the muzzle_bright in other options.
Qspecks can tell you which number to use.
Sky Lighting
#5710 posted by Bal [87.91.229.58] on 2006/12/19 00:59:58
I have a sky emitting light throughout a level, but in one specific area, I'd rather it didn't, anyone know of a trick to achieve this? (And no removing the sky light and using lots of point entities instead is not an option).
Bal
#5711 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/12/19 01:44:38
I think it is possible by adding a polygon within the sky brush, at least if the sky brush is thick enough to insert something inside it. I'm not sure but I think it is the way Quake shadow logo is produced in some Quake Level...
JPL
#5712 posted by Bal [62.210.227.22] on 2006/12/19 01:53:35
Right, I remembered there was some trick like that, will try it out, thanks! =)
Anyone know any vis that supports dual cpu and dual core machines?
Bal
#5713 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2006/12/19 02:03:08
I already asked aguiRe on that point some months ago.. aguirRe told me the very first vis.exe Id "release" was unix oriented and was supporting dual CPU usage. Unfortunately, he didn't think that any nowadays vis.exe is supporting dual CPU any more.
Maybe it will come back soon, as many brand new PCs have now dual CPU/core, that could support such a feature...
I think aguirRe would have better infos than me on that point ;P
But
#5714 posted by Kinn [86.128.41.105] on 2006/12/19 03:00:16
the quake logo shadow thing only works because the skylight is simulated using a point light entity above the shadow casting brush.
I think Bal is using the light emitting sky texture thing.
Is there a way to fudge a sky texture's name so that it behaves like a sky but the light compiler doesn't register it as one?
Hmm. what if you compiled the level with a dummy texture for your fake sky so that the light compiler didn't treat it as sky, then replaced the dummy texture afterwards in the bsp using TexMex? I have no idea if that would work correctly but it's probably worth a shot.
Kinn
#5715 posted by Bal [87.91.229.58] on 2006/12/19 03:10:35
Yeah good point, probably wouldn't work with the brush technique... Will try switching the textures after it's lit, thanks for the idea.
Sky Texture
#5716 posted by Preach [81.152.235.54] on 2006/12/19 03:31:46
I expect that the texture switch will work with just one problem - the surface won't be marked as CONTENT_SKY. This means that rockets that hit the surface will explode rather than being removed, and other similar effects. I'd imagine that the texture will still render correctly though. You can see the same thing happens in DM3 as it was compiled with an out of date version of the bsp tools.
Hmm...
#5717 posted by Bal [62.210.227.22] on 2006/12/19 04:57:52
I still haven't tried any of this as I'm still at work...
But considering my sky is just pitch black in that area, any trick to simulating a false sky? some pitch black liquid maybe?
Maybe
#5718 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.77] on 2006/12/19 08:28:21
try the dummy light trick with a negative light instead, and darken the regular sky texture for that section of the sky.
Non Sky Content
#5719 posted by Preach [81.152.234.72] on 2006/12/19 08:43:13
Is it really a problem that the sky isn't truely a skybrush though? All the ID maps have this behaviour and don't seem to suffer for it, so I'd still say use Kinn's suggestion unless it causes a problem. It was just meant to be a quick warning in case it is important. Black water brushes would do a pretty good job of simulating sky if it does matter, the thicker you can make it the more likely it will be that the sound isn't audible.
Nah Wont Work,
#5720 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.77] on 2006/12/19 09:06:11
only one sky will show
I Mean
#5721 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.77] on 2006/12/19 09:07:54
only one sky will show
My suggestion. I didn't see Preach's answer that fallowed until now.
Nehahra Engine / Transparent Objects
#5722 posted by jiri_b [84.191.162.201] on 2006/12/20 16:21:24
Did I need special build-tools to compile a map for nehahra?
At the moment I use txqbsp, rvis and tyrlite for fitzquake compiling
and it worked fine.
But for the neh-engine, Iam not satisfied, because the test-map is to dark and the brush that should be transparent, is not transparent at all.
Did I need other built-tools and other additional command-line settings
for this engine?
Nehahra Engine / Transparent Objects
#5723 posted by jiri_b [84.191.162.201] on 2006/12/20 16:22:25
Did I need special build-tools to compile a map for nehahra?
At the moment I use txqbsp, rvis and tyrlite for fitzquake compiling
and it worked fine.
But for the neh-engine, Iam not satisfied, because the test-map is to dark and the brush that should be transparent, is not transparent at all.
Did I need other built-tools and other additional command-line settings
for this engine?
Jiri_b
#5724 posted by Bal [90.2.34.65] on 2006/12/20 23:51:47
No you don't need any specific tools for Nehahra maps, just place the right entities in your map (according to the devkit documentation), and it should all work fine once in Nehahra.
Map too dark is probably just cause the engine is configured differently.
Bal
#5725 posted by jiri_b [84.191.192.223] on 2006/12/21 05:06:14
Thanks for your help. You are right
the engine was wrong configured.
Preach / Anyone
#5726 posted by ijed [201.222.200.15] on 2006/12/26 13:22:21
I wanted to take a look at the teaching old progs thread but can´t view all threads.
What´s the specific key setup to create an explosive info_notnull?
It may be easier to just post the link direct to the thread.
Cheers.
Here You Go:
#5727 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.199] on 2006/12/26 13:29:18
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Now For Destruction
#5728 posted by ijed [201.222.202.43] on 2006/12/27 11:55:01
I Prefer Affliction
#5729 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2006/12/27 13:04:18
Or Deriliction?
#5730 posted by ijed [201.222.206.14] on 2006/12/28 10:10:46
Transparent Textures
#5731 posted by jiri_b [84.191.148.45] on 2007/01/02 20:33:58
is it somehow possible to have partial transparent textures in q1 like in half-life?
.
#5732 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2007/01/02 23:56:12
not in stock quake. it can be done in tomaz quake with tga textures and alpha channels, but i don't know about any other ports.
.
#5733 posted by jiri_b [84.191.202.52] on 2007/01/03 01:09:35
ok - than I built my map without tansparent textures,
because I prefer fitzquake.
necros - thanks for your answer anyway
Weird Ingame Issue With XP
#5734 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/01/04 04:55:08
I have a strange behaviour with my office PC labtop. I installed FitzQuake and the rendering is quite weird. When the game is launched, there are some weird HOMs-like and flickering effects everywhere... I have to type Ctrl+escape to return to XP, and then click onto the reduced FitzQuake window to return to a "normal" behaviour. So I decided to try also aguirRe's GL Quake, and the game never started (black screen... and Ctrl+Alt+Del to stop it at the end...)
I guess it comes from some missing options I have to set, but which option(s)?: that is the question... Anybody already faced this issue ? Any idea(s) that could help ?
A Sound Question
#5735 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/04 05:41:18
Can someone clarify this for me:-
There are 8 channels for sound. If I am playing a sound on CHAN_VOICE, can that sound be stopped mid-stream other than using another sound (or null.wav) on CHAN_VOICE. Put another way, if I end up calling more than 8 sounds to play at the same time, will the last sound called 'overwrite' an earlier one.
I am not clear on the use of the sound channels and cannot find much in the way of explanation. I have some Quake C Definitions that show:-
CHAN_AUTO = 0; // Create a new sound
CHAN_WEAPON = 1; // Replace entitie's weapon noise
CHAN_VOICE = 2; // Replace entitie's voice
CHAN_ITEM = 3; // Replace entitie's item noise
CHAN_BODY = 4; // Replace entitie's body noise
For example, should I use CHAN_AUTO or CHAN_VOICE for music. What does it mean by 'create' and 'replace'?
Any pointers?
FitzQuake
#5736 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/04 08:38:09
FQ failed to load a map and gave a SZ_GETSPACE: OVERFLOW error but didn't crash.
Does this imply that I'm only just over the limit? I had just added 4 ammo packs and 3 health packs, all of which are transported-in after the map starts (player lands on trigger as the map opens).
Mike:
#5737 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/04 13:07:51
I don't know about CHAN_AUTO, but the other channels will kill any previous sound playing on the same channel.
This is useful if, for example, the guy is in the middle of talking and you want him to yelp in pain. It makes no sense to hear them both at the same time.
Regarding the engine stuff, I have no clue. I forgot what SZ_GETSPACE: OVERFLOW means. I think it has something to do with allocating space for strings, and maybe this includes the entire entities string from the bsp, which might have just gone over the limit by adding the boxes? I'd ask Aguirre for sure.
Sound Channels
#5738 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2007/01/04 13:23:19
each entity can have up to 8 channels (?) through which sound can play.
if a sound is told to play on a channel where a sound is already being played, it gets overrode with the new sound.
CHAN_AUTO (0) picks any free channel automatically.
Necros
#5739 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/05 01:17:06
I notice that CHAN_AUTO is not used very often (8 times in ID';s original) but CHAN_VOICE is used by every monster, the player, door, client and ai.
Does that suggest that CHAN_AUTO is less likely to be overridden and is a better option than CHAN_VOICE.
But could it also mean that if we have (say) 8 weapon firing monsters coming at the player, who is firing his nail gun constantly whilst standing next to two wall torches, near an ambient wind noise, when he activates a trigger that calls a CHAN_AUTO that that sound won't play because there are no spare channels?
I have a global sound that stops mid-stream for no apparent reason other than at the time, there is quite a bit going on. I'm looking for a way to maintain that sound regardless of any other sound that may be called.
For example, if I have a base level and the player has activated an alarm that spawns a steady stream of defenders, I want the alarm to continue regardless of everything else, until the player finds the silence button, which then stops the spawning. If I allow the alarm to go silent too early, the player won't understand what is happening - suitable messages will have told the player what the alarm means.
(That kind of gives the game away, so this message will self-destruct in 15 seconds)
;)
#5740 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/01/05 06:38:12
this message will self-destruct in 15 seconds
But only if the sound does not get overridden. :P
.MAP Format And Brush Grouping
#5741 posted by DieparBaby [198.20.41.187] on 2007/01/05 06:57:20
I'm writing a program that will generate a .MAP file. I'm like to group some brushes. I noticed that in Worldcraft 1.6a, the .MAP file does not have any grouping info but the .RMF appears to. Is it possible to have grouping info in a Quake 1.x .MAP file? If not, does anyone know the breakdown of the .RMF format?
Thanks,
DieparBaby
#5742 posted by DieparBaby [198.20.41.187] on 2007/01/05 07:00:19
That should be "I'd like to group some brushes."
#5743 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/01/05 07:38:08
I guess some compilers support func_group, but there's no real way of grouping anything in the .MAP format.
.RMF is a binary format that as far as I know noone has bothered figured out how works. Checking it out in a hex editor it looks like just serialized stuff, I'm sure it could be figured out one had the dedication.
Looping Siren
#5744 posted by Preach [81.153.25.225] on 2007/01/05 07:42:33
It might be best if you made the siren sound a non looping file, and then made the entity repeatedly play the sound at the same interval as the loop did. That way even if the sound was occasionally overridden by other noises, it should keep returning.
Preach
#5745 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/05 08:59:08
Good idea.
DieparBaby
#5746 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/05 09:25:35
If you only want the Group information in the .map file (and visible in the editor as a different colour outline of the brushes) then BspEditor has that facility.
Example brush from the .map file:
{
//"0007" "0"
( -128 -512 -48 ) ( -256 -512 -64 ) ( -256 -512 0 ) ROCK18 0 0 90 1.0 1.0
( -256 -512 0 ) ( -256 -384 -48 ) ( -128 -512 -48 ) ROCK18 0 0 90 1.0 1.0
( -128 -256 -64 ) ( -256 -384 -64 ) ( -128 -384 -64 ) ROCK18 0 0 90 1.0 1.0
( -256 -512 0 ) ( -256 -384 -64 ) ( -256 -384 -48 ) ROCK18 0 0 90 1.0 1.0
( -128 -512 -48 ) ( -256 -384 -48 ) ( -256 -384 -64 ) ROCK18 0 0 90 1.0 1.0
}
The "0007" is the Group number and the Group's Index is part of the header information, which gives the Group's name as used in the editor.
In this particular example, the Group's number is 7, which I called Island in the editor and coloured it green. I have 25 Groups in this map (not all of which are different coulours) and I switch off any Group that I'm not working on in the display although the editor saves all Groups at every save regardless of the display.
If that helps?
Mike Woodham
#5747 posted by DieparBaby [198.20.41.187] on 2007/01/05 10:20:27
Hi Mike:
Thanks for your help. Just two questions.
So "0007" is the group number. Is "0" the group index? That is, if I have 25 groups, will the group indicies be 0 to 24? Can the group number be any number?
Where can I get the BspEditor you use? I don't want to get the wrong one.
DieparBaby
DieparBaby
#5748 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/05 11:12:41
In my example "0007" is the Group number but I do not know what the "0" is. The index I referred to is a list of the Groups used. Here are the first 9 lines of the file that I used in the example earlier:-
//BSPGROUPS0026
//BSPGROUPINFO"None" "255 255 255" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"monsters_easy_... "192 192 192" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"monsters_norm_... "192 192 192" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"monsters_hard_... "192 192 192" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"first_area&quo... "255 128 128" "1"
//BSPGROUPINFO"cave1" "0 255 128" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"clip" "255 0 255" "0"
//BSPGROUPINFO"island" "128 255 128" "1"
The first line shows that I have 26 Groups. They are numbered 0 to 25. The first Group is by default called "None" although it can be renamed but it will always be numbered as zero.
The set of three numbers "255 255 255" refer to the outline colour in the editor, in this case it is the default white. I then created the other Groups that you see. I don't know what the last "0" is.
You will find BspEditor here
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/
If you use the contact button there, the guy who has updated the editor will respond and will be able to give you much more technical answers than I can - I am just a user.
Sounds:
#5749 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2007/01/05 12:29:42
each entity has it's own sound channels, and the game has a maximum number of channels for sounds.
one entity with a sound playing on channel 1 won't override another entity with a sound playing on channel 1.
but having one entity start sounds on the same channel is useful, for example on doors. that's how they stop the looping sound when a door stops moving, by playing the stop sound on the same channel.
i don't know how many channels the game itself has, but it's not a lot. there may be priority on channels, but i'm not sure. it could just go by which sound was started first. but yeah, if you have any long sound, make sure it's not looped and manually play it again via qc to make sure it never gets cut off.
i believe ambient sounds, started at map load time never cut out, but that's just because i've never noticed that happen.
Model2bsp
#5750 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/01/05 21:31:19
I made a mine lamp and wanted to add it as a b_model. But its a *.mdl file.
Is there a program that can make a bsp of it?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Quake...
JPL
#5751 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.141] on 2007/01/05 23:49:16
Make sure to add -condebug +developer 1 to engine cmd line and inspect qconsole.log after you've run the engine. What does it say?
What gfx card and OpenGL version is it? Does WinQuake run on it? Does any other OpenGL app run on it?
AguirRe
#5752 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/01/06 04:44:57
I have +developer 1 cvar for sure, but I'm not sure about -condebug. I'm not also sure about gfx card, and openGL version, I have to check it.
I also don't know if another OpenGL application is running at the same time...
Nevertheless, WinQuake is working fine.. while very slow with my current project... (i.e very choppy)
I'll verify all these things by monday, and give you feedback then.
Lightmap Editing
#5753 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/07 21:48:17
I'm just wondering if there is any lightmap editor available for q1 format maps. Is it possible to extract the lightmap to images and reimport them into the bsp at all? All I really need is a tool that can increase the brightness whilst still keeping contrast, so a light scale operation would probably also work, but I don't think there are any utils that will do that for me. Does anyone know of anything that can help me? All my maps are too dark on other people's computers because I have such a bright screen...
AguirRe
#5754 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/07 23:27:39
I don't see anything strange compared to what happened with my home PC in the console. Maybe the 2nd line message that says wipx_init: unable to open control socket but I'm not sure...
I guess it is a WinXP issue... Nevertheless, what should I focus on that could help me to solve this issue ?
Than...
#5755 posted by metlslime [67.188.208.99] on 2007/01/08 00:40:51
Gamma correction was designed to compensate for different monitor brightnesses. Have you tried that?
JPL
#5756 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.237] on 2007/01/08 01:48:42
Since you claim that my engine won't start properly, the log should show where it crashes (if it does crash, that is).
I asked for a couple of things before, where are the answers? I can't say anything without a lot more information.
Metlslime
#5757 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/08 02:45:38
I guess so, but it doesn't work on all glquake engines, and some people bitch a lot if a map is too dark on their screens.
AguirRe
#5758 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/08 03:01:19
OK, sorry for this, but as I'm at office, it is a little bit tricky for me to "play" cause I'm in an open space.. and everybody could see me... :(
Nevertheless, here are the characteristics of the labtop:
CPU: Genuine Intel CPU T2500@2.oGHz
RAM: 1Go RAM@1GHz
VCard: Intel 945GM Express Chipset Family
OpenGL Version: Not known but DirectX8 is installed (BTW our IT engineer seemed surprised I mentioned OpenGL for WinXP... where could I pick this information ?)
BTW, I just made a small test with glquake131, and the game get stucked at the beginning (no possibility to move at all...), and I had to reset and restart the computer...
Oh and here is the qconsole.log
Console initialized.
Winsock TCP/IP Initialized
WIPX_Init: Unable to open control socket
Exe: 00:10:49 May 26 2005
32.0 megabyte heap
Video mode 1280x720x16 60Hz initialized
FOUND: ARB_multitexture
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
FOUND: WGL_EXT_swap_control
FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
Sound Initialization
Set primary sound buffer format: yes
Using secondary sound buffer
2 channel(s)
16 bits/sample
11025 bytes/sec
DirectSound initialized
Sound sampling rate: 11025
CDAudio_Init: No CD in player.
CD Audio Initialized
joystick not found -- no valid joysticks (a5)
========= Quake Initialized =========
execing quake.rc
execing default.cfg
execing config.cfg
execing autoexec.cfg
Unknown command "gl_texquality"
Unknown command "r_interpolate_model_weapon&q...
SpawnServer: start
Clearing memory
Programs occupy 405K.
meshing progs/player.mdl...
408 tri 628 vert 1367 cmd
meshing progs/eyes.mdl...
16 tri 24 vert 53 cmd
meshing progs/h_player.mdl...
40 tri 64 vert 141 cmd
meshing progs/gib1.mdl...
28 tri 46 vert 102 cmd
meshing progs/gib2.mdl...
82 tri 138 vert 305 cmd
meshing progs/gib3.mdl...
20 tri 32 vert 71 cmd
meshing progs/v_axe.mdl...
184 tri 288 vert 629 cmd
meshing progs/v_shot.mdl...
128 tri 190 vert 412 cmd
meshing progs/v_nail.mdl...
188 tri 312 vert 687 cmd
meshing progs/v_rock.mdl...
54 tri 86 vert 189 cmd
meshing progs/v_shot2.mdl...
152 tri 250 vert 550 cmd
meshing progs/v_nail2.mdl...
190 tri 302 vert 661 cmd
meshing progs/v_rock2.mdl...
124 tri 204 vert 449 cmd
meshing progs/bolt.mdl...
26 tri 52 vert 118 cmd
meshing progs/bolt2.mdl...
26 tri 40 vert 88 cmd
meshing progs/bolt3.mdl...
26 tri 40 vert 88 cmd
meshing progs/lavaball.mdl...
20 tri 32 vert 71 cmd
meshing progs/missile.mdl...
58 tri 100 vert 222 cmd
meshing progs/grenade.mdl...
14 tri 24 vert 54 cmd
meshing progs/spike.mdl...
4 tri 8 vert 19 cmd
meshing progs/s_spike.mdl...
4 tri 8 vert 19 cmd
meshing progs/backpack.mdl...
110 tri 160 vert 346 cmd
meshing progs/zom_gib.mdl...
20 tri 32 vert 71 cmd
meshing progs/v_light.mdl...
172 tri 282 vert 620 cmd
meshing progs/flame2.mdl...
86 tri 140 vert 308 cmd
meshing progs/flame.mdl...
122 tri 198 vert 435 cmd
meshing progs/zombie.mdl...
347 tri 559 vert 1225 cmd
meshing progs/h_zombie.mdl...
49 tri 73 vert 159 cmd
40 entities inhibited
trigger_teleport, target 't11' has no target
Server spawned.
CL_EstablishConnection: connected to local
3 demo(s) in loop
Client LOCAL connected
VERSION 1.09 SERVER (4223 CRC)Serverinfo packet received.
...
Introduction
CDAudio: drive not ready
CL_SignonReply: 1
CL_SignonReply: 2
CL_SignonReply: 3
26.3 megabyte data cache
CL_SignonReply: 4
Sending clc_disconnect
VID_Gamma_Restore: failed on SetDeviceGammaRamp
Hope it is enough :)
OK
#5759 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.54] on 2007/01/08 08:17:47
Comments to the info; I've heard Intel onboard chips (and/or drivers) are terrible for gaming, so that might be the reason. OpenGL info should be obtainable from the desktop RMB configuration (advanced). Maybe newer (or older) drivers are available from Intel?
If you had listed the qconsole.log contents from the run of my GLQuake instead of Fitz, you'd also known the GL-version ;) Didn't you get any log from my run?
You could try adding option -nomtex to see if that makes any difference. Try also -window to see if window operation is possible and use desktop resolution.
Have you tried another OpenGL app (i.e. not Quake) to see if that works? If you don't know any other, there should be screensavers in XP that use OpenGL. You could of course also try other Q1 engines; Joe, DP ...
You could also try asking Baker at QuakeOne forums, he seems to know a lot about Quake startup problems.
Than:
#5760 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/08 14:08:13
if they want to use an engine that doesn't support gamma, there is still a way to do it.
In the control panel, the display settings for most cards should provide a way to set hardware gamma. This is exactly the same gamma setting that fitzquake/darkplaces modify when playing, by the way.
There is also a program called "setgamma" which you can add to a batch file if you want a one-click shortcut to launch the game with the correct gamma. For example:
setgamma 0.6
glquake
setgamma 1
You can get setgamma from the fitzquake website here (direct link): http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake...
Ok, But Suppose I Still Want To Increase The Light Level In Map
#5761 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/08 15:47:55
Is there an easy way to do it other than by tweaking all the lights individually?
Just read the txt files for tyrlight and Bengt's light tools and found -range and -dist command line options in the tyrlite text file. Hopefully that will work ok. Fingers crossed.
If any of you tools guys are listening, a brightness/contrast adjust option would probably be pretty damn cool too (that affects the lightmap after generation and I suppose would be able to be run on any bsp), if it is straightforward enough to implement.
Some Compilers...
#5762 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/08 16:13:38
have a -scale option ... but maybe this is really only for quake2 compilers...
Than
#5763 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.49] on 2007/01/08 16:28:41
Since tweaking light levels in already existing bsps is the main reason why I've developed my Light tool, there are a lot of possibilities to very easily set new parameters from the cmd line.
Check out the readme carefully, experiment a bit and you'll see how easy and fast it is.
And the tool that does the brightness/contrast level adjustments is ... Light (any light tool) ;)
Ignoring What's Already Been Said...
#5764 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/01/08 17:36:47
Doesn't setting a minlight increase all brightness in the map? It might look bad, but it can't be much worse than adjusting the gamma.
Minlight...
#5765 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/08 18:05:02
only sets a higher minimum value. All lightmap areas that are above that value won't change.
AguirRe
#5766 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/08 23:39:57
I made a second try this morning, using -window and/or -nomtex, but it didn't help at all... :/ After the game was launched, and stucked, I had a WinXP message stating that ialtmngr5 process was not responding... (I'm not sure about the name of the process). but it seems that it comes from the Video Card (I asked to my IT engineer that looked my suspiciously...)...
I made the same tests with FitzQuake, and fortunately it is working perfectly in window mode ! No more flickering/HOM like effects
Thanks a lot for the information: you rock !
Good
#5767 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.190] on 2007/01/09 01:49:47
Let's hope it continues to work, there are probably driver issues (the engine should never be able to bring down the OS). Also note that you might be running in 16bpp colour mode (the earlier Fitz log indicated that).
Metl
#5768 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.190] on 2007/01/09 01:54:23
Only if you use TyrLite minlight (default), if you use additive minlight (ArghLite style, option -addmin) instead, you'll get a *much* better minlight effect. It's actually one of the really essential features of my Light tool.
Aguirre:
#5769 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/09 13:45:46
oh, cool.
AguirRe
#5770 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/10 06:51:37
Thanks for the info. I just scanned through the text file and found the following options for anyone that is interested:
-addmin = makes the minimum light additive.
-range # = scales all lights by #
-globrange = scales sun lights by -range (afaik)
-light/-maxlight # = minimum and maximum light levels. Can also be set in the worldspawn.
I'm posting this because a lot of the useful stuff is contained in the changelog info, which is a little bit time consuming to sort through.
I'll have a play with it and see if I can improve things.
Light Options
#5771 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.236] on 2007/01/10 11:25:12
-globrange should be avoided (and is default off unless requesting other tool compatibility). -maxlight is also not very useful, use -lightcap instead to limit strong lights (but is less effective if you use "wait" keys).
The main global tweak options are -light, -addmin, -range and -dist, combined with -sunlight options.
More detailed descriptions are at the end of the readme, after the changelog.
Light Options 2
#5772 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.236] on 2007/01/10 11:30:18
... and if you feel adventurous, try the global -anglesense # option. It can seriously change the lighting in a map ...
BspEditor Updated
#5773 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/10 14:40:10
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/
-range
#5774 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/10 16:04:24
seemed to make a massive difference to the lighting. Even range 1.05 make the level a lot brighter. What are the values I should be using? I tested 0.5 and nothing really happened.
The bit at the end of the readme doesn't contain any information on distance scaling (search for -dist) and -range is only mentioned in the changelog, so that's why I mentioned certain commands before.
Anyway, thanks for the help. I will have a play with the -dist command tonight and see how it affects the lighting.
-range
#5775 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.100] on 2007/01/10 16:49:38
and -dist are from the original id Light tool, I assumed most mappers would know about them thoroughly ... ;)
Anyway, the default for -range is 0.5, therefore 1.05 is more than double intensity. Default -dist is 1.0, lower values means lower attenuation and therefore brighter.
To get a more even lighting, you typically lower range and dist, for more contrast (more digital on/off lighting) you typically increase range and dist.
To understand more about how various options affect the total lighting in a bsp, use the BspInfo tool: bspinfo -lightstat3 mymap >bspinfo.txt.
You'll then get a histogram over the total light distribution, it's basically like a DNA fingerprint for the map.
Ah!
#5776 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/11 05:51:30
now I understand why it looked the same at 0.5 ;)
I will try 0.75.
Thanks for the information about the histogram thing too. Sounds interesting.
Aquirre:
#5777 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/01/11 12:09:49
I'm not sure if it's worth your time, but I don't think the original tool parameters were every really explained in a manual or text file, so it would probably be useful to add a section to your text files explaining all the original compiler features that still exist in your tools.
Stop, Stop...
#5778 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/11 12:44:40
...this sketch is getting silly.
They are clearly item_rockets in the map view of the editor, and they are clearly item_rockets in the .map file after I've saved it.
So why are they poxy spikes in the game? I need rockets. If I didn't need rockets, I wouldn't have put rockets in the map. But I need rockets.
Why... who, is changing my item_rockets to item_spikes. Come on, own up. I am no longer amused.
Will some clever clogs kindly tell me WTF is going on?
Metl
#5779 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.85] on 2007/01/11 13:28:36
I have a brief explanation for each option (with default values) if you run Light without parameters.
Mike
#5780 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.85] on 2007/01/11 13:33:28
Does this happen after loading a saved game? If so, you might've run into the mixed models progs bug. It typically happens when you have random precaching order of models.
AguirRe
#5781 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/11 15:10:55
No, it's straight from a fresh compile.
It's got to be something in the spawn qc (can't blame anyone else if that turns out to be the case!) but I'll check it tomorrow.
Computer Security
#5782 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/12 00:19:18
OK, I checked the CCTV and now know what happened.
My house was broken into and someone started-up my computer, changed one line of code in items.qc, saved the file, shut-down my computer and left the house. I've asked the police to arrest Cut N Paste and bring him to justice.
How does one write maniacal laughter?
Like This
#5783 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.186] on 2007/01/12 01:12:07
Harharharrr!!! Hahahahahagahkhahaha!!!
.
#5784 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2007/01/12 10:19:39
i thought it was 'muahahaha'?
No, That Is Diabolical
#5785 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.136] on 2007/01/12 13:20:20
and Spirit's version is Pirate-Rapist,
for maniacal, you need something twitchy and indiciative of a loss ofcontrol.
Like a, 'he. he he. heh?!? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA AAAAHHHHHH'
Far from perfect, but a little Joker and a little Stewie mixed in and it should be right.
I Had My NewBoss
#5786 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/01/12 14:20:39
qc-code one night in the SinglePlayer area, and it ate all my progs.dat
Worldcraft 3.3 Questions.
#5787 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/01/12 17:02:03
I like WC 3.3, but there are two small problems that are making me fucking pissed off.
1: the monitor I'm temporarily on is fucked up and dark - is there a way to increase texture brightness?
2: I like that the brushes are different colours. that's nice. but I hate that when you clip a brush it turns black. So much in fact that I group any brush I clip to avoid the sitution. I don't mind losing all the colours if I don't have to deal with the blackness.
Can this be changed?
Thanks
Map To Mdl
#5788 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/13 08:22:22
I've downloaded 3D Exploration today with the intention of converting some brush work into an .mdl. There is a 30 day free trial for the software.
When I tried this earlier today it worked fine: open .map in 3DE, export to .dfx, import into Qme and save as .mdl. Easy.
But now 3DE crashes as soon as I try to open any .map file. I don't know why and the error log is not very helpful.
I don't want to have to try to recreate this brushwork directly in Qme, so does anyone know of any other way to convert brushwork to .mdl using freeware?
Hey Mike
#5789 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.179] on 2007/01/13 10:35:00
you can convert the map file to Quake2/3 format with Sleepwalkr's map converter and then create a bsp with Q3map2 and run Q3map2 a second time with the -convert option and it will create an .ase model. From that you can load it in a model program like Blender (will need a script you can get from Q3Bits site) and then convert to .dxf or
.3ds.
Lol
#5790 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/01/13 12:03:08
Those processes are so convoluted it cracks me up. :) Sorry, I've had to do some incredibly obtuse file conversions before, but nothing that involved. Where's the step where you convert it to XHTML so you can view it in IE? :)
I Was Saving That For The Hardcore Lesson
#5791 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.179] on 2007/01/13 12:11:46
done using a QBasic script after your put the model through an assembly language decompiler.
Mike, another converter utility that may be helpful, BitUrn.
http://mirex.mypage.sk/index.php?s...
HeadThump
#5792 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.97.161] on 2007/01/13 12:34:41
Thanks for the info. But... er, um... perhaps I won't go down that route after all.
To Clarify
#5793 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/01/14 12:00:52
the blocks I am referring to in part 2 are in the 2d view, obviously.
Question 1 will be sorted out soon, because I'll be moving back to my original comp, but question 2 is important. It's the biggest problem I have with WC 3.3.
Does That Mean
#5794 posted by negke [82.82.190.183] on 2007/01/14 14:12:19
the drew is finally back for good? oh, my dreams have come true! (at least the g-rated ones :P)
Yeah, Well
#5795 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/01/16 05:23:37
We'll have to see if I can get my shit together here. It's all fucked up right now. But I'll make my triumphant, dominating, swaggering speedmapping return soon. And Neg!ke, you'll get the ladyboy photos soon, too.
#5796 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/01/16 08:12:53
Also, that is the last ladyboy joke I'll ever make. It's dead now. And I don't like to joke about dead girls, even if they had a dick.
Moving on, can anyone help me with these WC problems? If you do I'll give you a SM sometime soon.
Arghargh Milkshape Argh!
#5797 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.214] on 2007/01/16 22:36:00
So I want to animate a model. I added a "skeleton" of joints. Then I selected the specific joints, hold shift, selected the appropiate vertices and clicked assign. I did that for all body parts. But when I now select a joint and move it, the vertices are not following (as I think they should?).
Any idea?
Killing The Player
#5798 posted by ijed [201.222.202.80] on 2007/01/21 02:17:58
Aside from multiple info_notnull explosions is there an efficient way to kill the player after a time limit has passed. Basicly they need to escape (change level) before a time limit has passed. I´m working under Qouth and the info_command allows me to use the console command kill. This doesn´t work because it still applies after the player completes the level - restarting it. As well as this the player doesn´t die, the level just restarts instantly. If all else fails I can just set up lots of explosions, but I get the feeling there is a hack of some kind that will let me do this neatly.
Cheers.
Trigger_hurt
#5799 posted by distrans [220.236.56.238] on 2007/01/21 04:24:20
...that covers the volume the player may be in at the end of the countdown. Make it hurt big time though, and of course make sure there are no pents available.
CZG made a level called "Sky Palace" which demonstrates the concept admirably. But it doesn't seem to be on his site any longer http://czg.leveldesign.org/q/index...
But I think it's available at quaddicted: http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase...
Neg!ke's HL Textured Speedmap.
#5800 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/01/21 05:00:38
Neg!ke made a speedmap with HL textures where you had to minutes to reach the toilet before you exploded. You should ask him how he did that - perhaps you can trigger a trigger_hurt that surrounds the whole level when the countdown expires - I've never bothered to try, but I would imagine that is how it works.
Yes
#5801 posted by negke [82.83.46.247] on 2007/01/21 11:07:49
like than said.
standard trigger hack with a large brush covering the entire map. when activated it only kills the player while the monsters stay alive (in most cases).
#5802 posted by czg [83.253.241.174] on 2007/01/21 12:07:37
You can't delay the activation of a trigger_hurt in standard quake progs, so use a teleporter with the player only flag set, and teleport the player into a hurty place.
Oh Wait Yeah
#5803 posted by czg [83.253.241.174] on 2007/01/21 12:11:17
you can probably do it with one of those info_notnull hacks
info_notnull{
"use" "trigger_hurt"
"targetname" "killAll"
"solid" "0"
{
//brush info
}
}
But the teleport way might be preferable anyway since then you don't risk getting massive packet overflows as all the monsters are gibbed simultaneously.
Triggering Triggers
#5804 posted by ijed [201.222.202.80] on 2007/01/21 17:45:37
Perfect - maybe now I´ll try revising my .fgd.
Multiple Monsters Triggering
#5805 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 10:51:29
Hi there. I was just wondering if any of you more experienced guys can help me with a simple(?) problem.. I just can't figure out how to make an event being triggered after a number of monsters have been killed. I.e. you must kill three badguys in order for a door to open. I am using worldcraft 3.3, mapping for q1.
NostalGeek
#5806 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/22 11:25:27
You must use trigger_counter entity.
So, all 3 monsters must target the trigger_counter.
The trigger_counter count field must be set to 3
The trigger_counter must target your door in order to open it at the end...
Hey Nos...
#5807 posted by distrans [59.167.11.250] on 2007/01/22 11:27:24
Use a trigger_counter with the count set to "3", then give it a targetname "whatever", then give each of the offending beasties a traget field that targets "whatever", aim the trigger_counter at the event.
Hehe, Snap!
#5808 posted by distrans [59.167.11.250] on 2007/01/22 11:28:13
Almost :)
Thanks Guys
#5809 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 13:30:09
Very kind of you to help.. thank you
Pregame Introductary Text
#5810 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 14:28:52
Another question from me: How do you display those little "stories" before or after a game.. you know, the text that "plays" on screen. Is it possible to create such an event with a map editor perhaps?
NostalGeek
#5811 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/22 14:32:49
At top of you map, there the worldspawn, in which you have the message field. Put your message there, and it will appear at the beginning of the map ingame. Just be aware that you must not use /n" and " to avoid engine crash (it's not happening all the times but this sometimes the reason for...)
JPL
#5812 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 14:45:30
When I open the "map properties" - window, I see that it says "worldspawn", but the only text I can add there (under "text on entering the world") only displays on the console when the map starts. I do not see any other spot to enter text..?!
So...
#5813 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/22 14:52:43
... try it...
I Did
#5814 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 14:58:18
Yes.. I see the text I entered ingame, but that's not quite what I meant. I am trying to find out how to copy what happenes after you have defeated Chton in the first q1 episode. After completing that episode the word "congratulations" appear in the headline, before text is displayed, telling the story of the game so far...
You Have To Compile A New Progs.dat For That
#5815 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/01/22 15:06:02
It's in client.qc, line 160.
If you don't know how to compile a new progs.dat or you don't want to include one with your map, there is no way to change it.
Progs.dat
#5816 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 15:13:17
Can I learn how to compile a progs.dat? If so.. where do I get started?
NostalGeek
#5817 posted by ijed [190.82.50.122] on 2007/01/22 16:02:20
modifying progs is a fairly advanced task - from a mapping perspective anyway, and it sounds like you're learning - I wouldn't advise going for coding just yet.
Having said that it's fairly simple to find the specific message and rewrite it as you please; though it does mean you'll have to release a pack instead of just the .bsp and compile the thing in the first place.
Ijed
#5818 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/22 16:38:57
Ok, I think I'll just stick to mapping for the time being.
Whoah
#5819 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/23 21:37:04
This thread is active, I must say. Have everybody figured everything out by now, or what..? Well, I sure have not. For instance, is it a problem to have two brushes occupying the same space - like, say I want to make a column appear to support a wedged ceiling.. so I simply create a brush from the floor to the ceiling, only that brush "collides" with part of the wedge. Should I carve the ceiling with my column, or just leave it the way it is...?
Just Leave It
#5820 posted by czg [83.253.241.174] on 2007/01/23 22:35:38
QBSP will sort it out just fine.
Be careful with having two faces overlapping though.
Brush Junctions
#5821 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.50] on 2007/01/23 23:37:55
No or big overlaps = OK
Small overlaps = very bad
Usually, neat brushwork pays off in the end.
And, Under All Circumstances...
#5822 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2007/01/23 23:56:23
...avoid "carving". Your tool of choice will make far worse decisions about breaking up brushes than you, with a bit of planning, will.
Small Overlaps Are Bad?
#5823 posted by Lunaran [24.159.240.226] on 2007/01/24 05:29:21
Why? What's "small"? 2 units? 32?
Thank You - You Guys Are The Best
#5824 posted by nostalGeek [193.157.237.205] on 2007/01/24 08:58:45
Ingame Monsters / Entites Pitched In Black
#5825 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/26 11:01:16
I have a weird issue in my current project: ingame, I have 2 monsters ( i.e Scraggs) and an entity (i.e a Quoth crucified corpse) that are completly pitched in black... To see their color, I have to shoot them very closely (i.e with DBS)... otherwize they look like shadows, full black, without any colors, even if in a lightned area... Is there any explanation for that ?
Models Only Get Lit From The Brightness Directly Below Them
#5826 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/01/26 11:40:24
So if either of these are hanging above somewhere dark, (as one often does with scrags and corpses) they won't be lit even if you place a big bright light right next to them.
It's Pretty Strange In Fact...
#5827 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/26 11:57:34
... because Scraggs are teleported into a wide-open area with a sunlight value of 150.. so I was expecting them to be lit... The more weird is that I have already 2 other teleported Scraggs in an other area that don't have any problem ... Any idea so ?
Oh Also
#5828 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/01/26 13:06:55
There is a limit in the engine as to how far below the model the brightness trace is run, I think it's around 1000 units or so, but metlslime turned it up in fitzquake. Don't know how big your level is, so if that's not the problem I really don't know.
Hhmmmm
#5829 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/01/26 13:12:01
OK, your informations gave me 2 different ways to follow in order to solve my problem and have a correct diagnosis. Thanks a lot: it was really helpful !
JPL...
#5830 posted by generic [76.3.11.75] on 2007/01/26 14:20:58
You might try lighting the box the Scrags are teleporting from to see if there is any difference.
Also, with crucified monsters, if they are placed slightly inside of other brushes, I have noticed they aren't always lit properly. Try nudging it around a couple of units to see if the lighting changes.
Crucified Stuff
#5831 posted by ijed [190.82.53.124] on 2007/01/26 20:49:19
You've probably already done this, but, if your corpse is crucified (ie. in the map ;) then make sure the spike is a func_wall or illusionary to stop it appearing black like you describe. It only turns up black if it's origin is inside a piece of solid brushwork - then light assumes it is outside the level and doesn't consider it.
Explanations
#5832 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/01/26 22:21:34
ijed: you are rigth, the origin of the crucified corpse was located in the wall: I moved it by 0.1 outside the wall and the isuue was solved....
czg / generic: In fact the Scraggs were correctly lit. The issue came from the fact they start to fly from a zone without brushes... except skybox.. so no solid wall below them... It is easily visible when the monsters fly from a solid area to a skybox area... and then faded from lit to black...
Thanks a lot for all the help provided ! You rock guys !
QC Gurus?
#5833 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.255.48] on 2007/01/29 11:56:28
Which is the best, and why (formatting apart)?
I'm looking at 'if', 'if/else' or 'if/return'
a)
void() do_job_A =
{
if (something == 1)
do_this1;
if (something == 2)
change_this1;
};
or b)
void() do_job_B =
{
if (something == 1)
do_this1;
else if (something == 2)
change_this1;
};
or c)
void() do_job_C =
{
if (something == 1)
{
do_this1;
return;
}
if (something == 2)
(
change_this1;
return;
}
};
There may be 8 or 9 choices for the variable called 'something'.
It Depends
#5834 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.90] on 2007/01/29 14:07:47
on if do_this1 and change_this1 somehow depend on each other. Otherwise the main principle is "always do as little as possible", which usually translates into else ifs (or even better, early returns) with the most frequent alternatives in the beginning.
If the condition "something" is complex, then split it up in nested or else ifs, with the most frequent and fastest conditions first. QC doesn't "early out" like e.g. C does. Function calls (especially calls to visible() or similar) should typically come last.
You can also take a look here: http://wiki.quakesrc.org/index.php... .
Newboss
#5835 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/01/30 19:46:46
Putting it in a lavapit and making it optional was a tight job. Now I'm at the point it iniates lavaballs from its bottem and fires them from its head. I rather would see it iniating from its head.
As I'm standing on a ledge, and when I turn back far enough, I still can see the newboss
and fire at it, but it doesn't seem to see me.
One can only kill it by firing on its bottem.
Because I borrowed it from the spellmaster, which is much smaller, the qc doesn't fit well on this much bigger monster.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/boss....
What should I change to the newboss.qc?
Madfox
#5836 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.255.48] on 2007/01/30 21:33:28
This is very phallic if you run the die sequence backwards?
I Know
#5837 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/01/31 08:06:46
This mdl I made myself, because the one in the deathmatch maker had a rather plump way of falling down.
Made no sense for such a big object.
I find it strange if I see it in Qml or Quark it has a right bounce box, but if I shoot it at the top it won't get hurt.(?)
Hitbox, Bounding Box And The Rest
#5838 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2007/01/31 09:20:54
The box you see in quark/qml is the box that bounds the size of the model. It's used by the engine to determine when the model is drawn, but nothing else. The hitbox is determined by the QC, specifically this line:
setsize (self,'-32 -32 -24','32 32 64');
Adjusting these values will give you a larger or smaller hitbox as you require. The first vector gives the coordinate of the lower left part of the box relative to it's origin. The second vector is the upper right coordinate, so it defines a cuboid hitbox.
Making it see from a different point of view may be a little more complicated to fix, I'll try and post about that later.
Thanks
#5839 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/01/31 23:54:20
preach, I wondered about that quiete a time.
To make it launch from that height was already a fix, it tended to start shooting in angles up and below the player.
Wurvy
#5840 posted by Lunaran [70.226.151.179] on 2007/02/02 03:40:52
Knowing how poorly the q1 engine and compiler generally handles slanted stuff, how insane would this be:
I want to design a map that's made of concentric sections surrounding a circular core. Every area of the map would have a gentle (or, near the center, not so gentle) curve to it. All lines would either be radial or circumferential. Essentially the entire map would be designed for polar coordinates, but imposed on a square grid.
Insane? Mad? Masochism?
#5841 posted by gibbie [145.116.235.109] on 2007/02/02 03:55:05
You mean like this?
http://www.student.vu.nl/h.e.beck/...
Yes, the compiler handles stuff like this fine.
Sweet Jesus Gibbie
#5842 posted by Lunaran [70.226.151.179] on 2007/02/02 04:49:35
like I said, you're out of your mind. :) does that even come close to the 8 grid?
Quark
#5843 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/02/02 05:53:53
handles stuff off the grid afaik. For SM32 I had to rebuild Gibbie's bit because it was on a floating point grid >:(
Radiant handles stuff down to 0.25 I think, and last time I used it you could build
I think the plan to make that in Quake is masochism. I built about half of my wolfenstein map at 45 degrees when there wasn't much need for it. It wasn't particularly difficult, just time consuming and annoying to build. Having said that, gibbie's map looks like it is generally at more challenging angles.
Gibbie: How about an editor xz view? I want to see how the ceilings were built.
#5844 posted by gibbie [145.116.235.109] on 2007/02/02 11:24:31
Shady xz:
http://www.student.vu.nl/h.e.beck/...
Girl8 xz:
http://www.student.vu.nl/h.e.beck/...
In gtkradiant 1.5 you have to turn off "Snap planes to grid" or everything goes wrong. The smallest grid for both maps is 0.125. That is also the smallest grid you can set in gtkradiant. However if your brushes are not on the smallest grid (eg because of clipper usage) i think it will still save them properly.
Anyways, most of the time i don't mess on such small grids. I mostly just use prefabs from a curvey thing of concentric brushes i once made, kinda like:
http://www.student.vu.nl/h.e.beck/...
This also has pre-aligned textures :)
Whoa
#5845 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/02/02 19:29:52
A map called "girl" filled with phalluses? And people thought I was perverted.
What's Perverted...
#5846 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/02 20:24:36
about filling a girl with phalluses?
Well,
#5847 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.161] on 2007/02/02 22:42:03
about filling a girl with phalluses?
I really hate during a DP when they rub your weiner up against another guy's junk while they are giving oral, but other than that, nothing!
Well,
#5848 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.105] on 2007/02/03 00:38:12
I think that I am glad that I don't understand American too well!
Metl
#5849 posted by Spirit [213.39.196.166] on 2007/02/03 00:47:19
the plural
Spirit:
#5850 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/03 02:38:17
yeah, but generally it only takes one to fill 'er up.
Silent Push
#5851 posted by negke [82.83.45.15] on 2007/02/04 12:01:33
is there a way (hack) to have a trigger_push that does not play the wind sound?
Silent Push
#5852 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.105] on 2007/02/04 13:30:15
As far as I can tell, the windfly.wav is only used by the trigger_push. Therefore if you are doing a mod you could get away with supplying ambience/windfly.wav in your mod directory where you have a copy of null.wav (from the sound/misc folder in pak0) and renamed windfly.wav. That's a hack.
If you play with Qc it's straightforward to create a flag for noise or no noise.
But Preach will probably come up with some wizard way of doing it :)
'Fraid Not
#5853 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2007/02/04 14:13:43
The function that causes the push of the trigger also specifically plays ambience/windfly.wav - unlike doors which play whatever wav file is in self.noise1 for instance. So there's no possibility that the sound could be changed to null.wav by entity field editing. The only possible line of attack would be to make sure that the player's .fly_sound is set to a time far in the future, but I doubt there is any function in the QC that will perform this.
Ok
#5854 posted by negke [82.83.45.15] on 2007/02/04 14:48:53
i already expected it to be impossible. thanks for clarifying.
AI
#5855 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2007/02/14 20:59:31
Are there extent AI mods that would give monsters (I'm thinking an enemy human-type thing) the ability and logic to duck-and-cover and work as teams and stuff like that?
Can I
#5856 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.222] on 2007/02/14 22:37:53
make spikeshooters fire diagonally in Q1?
If so, how?
Diagonally In Which Direction?
#5857 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/02/14 22:56:13
Do you mean 45 degrees down, for example? Then no, AFAIK. Otherwise, yes.
Damn.
#5858 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.21] on 2007/02/14 23:18:45
I want two shooters mounted on the ceiling firing in an "X" pattern. Both downward and 45 degrees inward.
Nothing can be easy :-(
anyway, straight downward will do. I figured out how to do that at least.
Diagonal Spikeshooters And AI
#5859 posted by Preach [131.111.8.99] on 2007/02/15 01:55:25
Diagonal shooters are easy to do. Info_notnull with these fields
use spikeshooter_use
targetname blah
wait -1
spawnflags as for desired spikeshooter
movedir vec
Where vec is a vector in the direction you want the spikes to fire. The velocity the spikes are fired at is 500*vec, so to match standard quake behaviour this should be a vector of unit length. Of course, the advantage of this method is you can actually control how fast the spike fires by varying vec - I hadn't thought of that before.
This sets up a triggered spikeshooter, if you want a constantly firing one the setup is a little different:
think shooter_think
wait n
nextthink 3
spawnflags as for desired spikeshooter
movedir vec
Be warned you need something else in the level to precache the required entities, like a regular shooter of the required type.
inertia: AI_Cafe is a good place to start looking, there's certainly an example of making enforcers duck there
http://minion.planetquake.gamespy....
Working in teams is a bit more vague though, as the quake AI atttacks are basically relentless and crude. There's only so much teamwork you can put into constantly spamming grenades until you die. If you had something more specific in mind, like say navigating more sensibly in packs rather than the current all rush straight at the player and collide, then maybe...
Preach
#5860 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2007/02/15 02:43:36
I want to have really intelligent packs of enemies, so that the whole "assault a base" thing could be done in a more tactical style.
Gosh
#5861 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.57] on 2007/02/15 02:47:18
I hope I understood that. Thank you Preach!
TROUBLE: Building E1M2
----------------------
I need help. I am trying to build e1m2.map, straight from Romero's zip file.
QBSP gives me a warning about texture +1SLIPBOT not found. Of course, there is no such texture in wizard.wad! Is the map file faulty? I went the extra mile and downloaded wizard.wad from quaddicted. Problem remains. I changed that face to wiz1_4 or something, warning is gone, but:
QBSP then doesn't write a .prt file for no apparent reason. Sorry, I have no idea of the details involved, just trying to build the map. The wad is in a dir named gfx in the same folder as QBSP, the map wants gfx/wizard.wad. That should be OK.
Following that, vis says "no prt file found" and exits :-(
I have built an original and a modified e1m1.map without problems with the same setup. Got a .prt file without problems.
Qbsp does NOT give any error messages, just no .prt file.
Aguire ?
Err...
#5862 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2007/02/15 03:12:17
...I've spike shooters firing at all sorts of angles in qte2m2? I'll check tonight, but I pretty sure all I did was add an "angles" field to the shooters then plug in pitch and yaw.
Inertia:
#5863 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/15 04:02:02
so you're thinking like, sneak into the storage shed, unscrew a light bulb so that someone from across the couryard notices it and comes over to investigate, kill him, but then hide the body so that nobody notices it and sounds the alarm, then throw a pine cone over behind the trucks so that they guards hear it and go investigate, leaving the front gate unguared when approaching from the west, then sneak up and garrote the other guard, then take his keycard and use it to recode the security locks...
Gosh.
#5864 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.102] on 2007/02/15 04:31:10
All is fine. I have a prt file.
I fixed two leaks in e1m2. One was two parts of a slanted roof not lining up, the other involved some seriously twisted brushes (like, really deformed.)
qbsp had silently (grrr) produced point files, which contained leaks that quest didn't see.
Metlslime
#5865 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2007/02/15 20:53:33
yeah except the player would have a sneaking suit.
and a box.
or a few boxes.
Yup...
#5866 posted by distrans [131.172.4.44] on 2007/02/16 04:38:50
...adding the "angles" field with value "pitch, yaw, roll" to the shooter was how I got them to fire at angles.
Cool
#5867 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.197] on 2007/02/16 13:38:33
That sounds way easier. thanks distrans :-)
Fishcount
#5868 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/02/22 23:04:25
I'm still missing the fishcount correction for my progs.dat of the proxsys mod.
Where can I find a good fish.qc ? Or was it qstats?
Also still searching for the angle error of the newboss.
Madfox:
#5869 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/23 00:06:50
it's a one-line fix. Just look at the swimmonster_start and swimmonster_start_go and related fish functions; you should notice that there's two copies of the line that increments the monster count, and you just delete one of those copies.
(this is from memory so the details may be wrong, but I know that if you look at the source, it becomes ovbvious.)
Right
#5870 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/02/23 02:21:44
but I'm a madcap when it's concerning qc.
even changing a line and correct it makes the compiler peak to errors.
I'm using fricdos, others won't even compile.
and I see two times swimmonsters_start but I can't delay them. If I delete the first one the fishcount still is double.
Maybe A Stupid Question
#5871 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/02/26 23:05:02
Hopefully an obvious one.
I was sitting around with some free time today so I decided to try and make a little speedmap. However I've encountered a frustrating problem along the way...
I have three doors, all with different names. They all go down. They are all within a close proximity to eachother. I have a trigger_counter that causes one set of doors to go down. When this happens the other two doors that do not yet have triggers also go down. Any ideas as to why?
I tried copying and pasting, then changing the name of one door. No doors moved at all, even when triggered... Can someone help with this?
Thanks
Doors...
#5872 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/27 00:18:16
if the doors' bounding boxes overlap or touch, they might be automatically linked by the func_door logic. To prevent this, you can use the spawnflag "DONT_LINK" or whatever it's called on each door.
Trains
#5873 posted by ijed [190.82.51.17] on 2007/02/27 22:02:12
does the same logic affect func_trains?
Ijed:
#5874 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/02/27 23:19:13
i don't think so.
Key
#5875 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/02/28 03:33:35
How do I open a Keydoor at the moment I'm in front of it? So not when I find the key somewhere else and return to an open keydoor.
Madfox:
#5876 posted by metlslime [69.181.182.38] on 2007/02/28 09:24:05
set a spawnflag on the door (8 or 16 I think, one is for silver and the other is for gold)
Madfox
#5877 posted by Ankh [192.100.130.7] on 2007/02/28 14:28:00
In Hammer/Worldcraft there is a "Gold key required" tick box in the properties field of a door entity. This way you can change the proper spawnflag. If your editor doesn't have such simple "feature" you should really change it :)
Thanks
#5878 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/02/28 17:56:54
I am using Quark65, and when I set a door to a key it changes the spawnflag to 8 or 16. If I return to the keydoor it is already opened.
Maybe
#5879 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2007/02/28 18:28:06
maybe you have added some wrong spawnflags to the key?
MadFox
#5880 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.105] on 2007/02/28 18:33:46
You don't need to set a 'target' on the Gold Key or a 'targetname' on the door as you would for a button operated door.
I don't know if this helps?
MadFox
#5881 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/02/28 18:57:39
For further details about flags, etc... please take a look at Quake Map Specs link below
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
Enjoy !
MadFox
#5882 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/02/28 19:01:18
You would find also precious information about Quake C here
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
Enjoy !
Argh..
#5883 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/02/28 19:02:49
For Quake C try this one... sorry...
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
Indeed
#5884 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/02/28 23:52:44
It was rather simple. I always used a targetname to a keydoor.
Then they open straight away.
Without target/targetnames they open at the trashold. Me donkey.
Thanks for your reply.
Another strange thing. Can changing texture (so not polys) influid the lightmap texture?
I mean just correcting a few margins, not scaling.
My map crashed on allocblok=full after I tried to retexture it.
The original map compiled fine.
Madfox:
#5885 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/01 01:10:38
Switching textures should not affect lightmap size, but rotating a texture on a polygon might increase lightmap size just like scaling does.
Yes
#5886 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.244] on 2007/03/01 01:48:51
what metl said, but I'd guess that since you typically change the texture in the editor, it's very likely that minor brush variations occur, leading to a slightly different lightmaps requirement.
Since you're using QuArK with its float coordinates, this is probably even more likely. As you're also flush to the lightmap limit to begin with, even small changes might put you over the edge.
Metlslime
#5887 posted by ijed [200.112.93.248] on 2007/03/01 02:38:51
re: post 5874, I came across a wierd effect where multiple sets of triggers and relays and counters were non triggering trains or were triggering more than they should have been - wierd.
The idea was archways (func_trains with -1 wait on each path_corner) over a floating plaform in the void - if you destroyed the pillars (func_walls killtargeted by trigger_once with health) holding them up then they would collapse, taking part of the platform (another func_train) with them, but only one at a time.
It worked, sort of, except for the problem with archways only falling after the others were all destroyed, or else destroyed in a different order. This was annoying but solvable - the main reason I scrapped it because the Vermis´ spore attack wasn´t doing any damage to the trigger once´s, only the players attacks.
I´ve changed it around now and it works better in the new style, without destructable scenery. It was a bit cheap when you fell into the void because of a missed shot.
Cheers anyway.
Thanks Everyone. Especially Metl.
#5888 posted by Drew [198.53.40.232] on 2007/03/01 17:58:48
Animated Textures
#5889 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/03/05 19:50:53
I changed some textures of the hipnotic pak.
Some computer compenents I retextured to animated.
It are 7 frames. If I look at them in game they work fine.
On my other computer I load the bsp and see one frame meshed out as a white/black block.
How can the same bsp act different on two computers?
Style Question
#5890 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.139] on 2007/03/05 20:28:11
I'm in the process of doing the Episode 1.1 thing, i.e. upgrading episode 1 with pak1 monsters and traps.
Would you guys consider it out of style to include some (read: a little) Quoth content? For example the Bob, voreling, drole, and the weapons/powerups?
Right now I'm installing Quoth again just to check some things out. I think if the Base project is successful, it will pretty much establish Quoth as a standard, so I might as well use it.
Especially if we see this Quoth 2 thing that I keep hearing about.
And... (this Forum Needs An Edit Function)
#5891 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.139] on 2007/03/05 20:31:06
What would you like to see changed/corrected in episode 1? Apart from the missing light texture in Ziggurat Vertigo :-)
now's your chance.
Sure,
#5892 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.151] on 2007/03/05 23:45:42
Quoth is designed to go hand and hand with Quake content. The original Quoth I kind of view as an extension of the Underworld theme. So, yeah, sure, make a Quothique episode one. KellCro already have done the SlipGate Complex in the Quoth pack. A few points.
1) I'm not crazy about Bob.
2) I don't see Quoth2 coming out. I could be wrong, and Kellcro are doing a suprise behind the scenes, but I doubt it. More likely both are burned out on Quoth, Quake,and all the good stuff in life.
3) If you see Quoth2 coming at you, run like hell. It will suck you in to
its vortex and never let you go.
3) Does the Sentry in the Quoth 2 beta remind you of someone who comes around only once a year?
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168...
EkderWorld Theme I Mean
#5893 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.151] on 2007/03/05 23:46:15
Hehe
#5894 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.200] on 2007/03/06 01:40:00
yeah, he does :-)
I know what you mean about Bob. I spent the last few hours playing chapters and the quoth (test) maps again. Bob (like several quoth enemies) has too many hit points compared to standard monsters, and he can be a bit annoying (just like that flying polyp thing.) Also the explosion etc. is a bit overdone.
The model and skin however I think are very cool.
After playing those maps again, the only monsters I'd want to include are vorelings, but the price of requiring a pak file is a bit too high...
You're right, if this were episode 4 (which I'm not a fan of) the picture would look very different. With those crazy maps like the Pain Maze etc.
thanks for input.
Edit:
#5895 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.200] on 2007/03/06 01:51:27
if I'm going to make this easily speedrunnable (which I intend to) there's not going to be a custom progs... so...
On Topic
#5896 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.129] on 2007/03/08 01:47:48
Is there any trick to animated textures? I just apply the one that starts with +0 right? The rest of the stack should be included by qbsp I guess.
I can tell it's not working because other animations (spinning globes, buttons) get played; my own ones don't.
Sorry if this is a stoopid question. Is there something in the texture itself?
#5897 posted by MadFox [84.26.7.202] on 2007/03/08 07:49:00
animated tex folow frame rules.
when you have made a +0_frame.bmp the most common why is to follow up:
+1_frame.bmp
+2_frame.bmp
+3_frame.bmp
when youre frames are ready import them all together to the texture editor. Watch out for the + mark, windows don't like it in names.
If all went right they should animate.
If all went wrong ( + not acomplished, wrong framenr, bad size) you'll end up with individual frames in your editor.
Free Music
#5898 posted by ijed [190.82.48.117] on 2007/03/08 14:15:36
Is there anywhere that I can get my hands on some decent Quake type music to include in a map pack.
I would like between 5 - 7 tracks on a dark theme. I could just set up the cd entry for the pack to play off the original Quake tracks or else Distran's Travail set but want something that hasn't been used, at least for Quake - and don't want to steal the Travail tracks anyway.
I've got my hands full finishing off the pack and my composition is rusty to non-existant.
I thought about including tracks from the rare q3 maps that have thier own music (with permission of course) but these are fairly disparate and I'd want something a bit more cohesive.
Cheers.
Ijed
#5899 posted by Spirit [80.171.81.246] on 2007/03/08 15:53:47
You could ask these for permission:
http://www.phelios.de pretty dark, weird style though (if I remember correctly)
http://mon0.de
Or browse through http://www.archive.org/search.php?... until you find something nice.
Thanks!
#5900 posted by ijed [190.82.48.117] on 2007/03/08 16:22:29
These look perfect.
Hiccup
#5901 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.40] on 2007/03/10 00:51:58
Too many light styles on a face ?
I can have too many lights?!
There are just simple point lights in the area I'm working on, plus three light_fluoros. I didn't set style flags on any.
Oh And...
#5902 posted by Inspector Columbo [89.27.252.40] on 2007/03/10 01:40:59
I'm really sorry to ask so many stupid questions. ISTR that you could alter the radius of a point light (how far the light travels.)
How?
Goldenboy / Columbo I Know You're The Same Guy!!!!13
#5903 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/10 02:03:33
lights that you turn on/off with a trigger or button generate additional light styles (specifically, one style per unique targetname.)
Radius and brightness are together affected by the "light" value. If you want to shift the radius independently of the brightness, you can use the "wait" value. 1.0 is default, and values > 1 will reduce the radius, and values < 1 will increase the radius.
Basically, radius=light/wait
Haha :-)
#5904 posted by golden_inspector [89.27.252.239] on 2007/03/10 02:29:48
yep. Sorry I double-post regularly... it's because I'm routinely using the Edit function of other forums right after/during posting. I often go "man I forgot something!" right after posting.
Some of it comes from having a browser open while mapping. A question arises, I make a post, I think for a minute, bang! another question.
I'm trying to cut down on this. Really :-)
Thanks for light/wait info. I don't think I have any switchable lights there though... the error popped up while I removed/relocated some point lights in a very defined area.
No more questions tonight :-)
gb
Light Styles
#5905 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.111.145] on 2007/03/10 06:25:35
I believe there is a limit of 4 unique light styles per face, someone correct me if I'm wrong please!
#5906 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.112] on 2007/03/10 22:11:46
What exactly counts as different light styles then? Everything that is in the "style" flag?
I have controlled all the lights in the area (I know where it is because it popped up after I worked there.) None have a style value other than 0 (unset).
There is actually one switched light there (it is the bridge/nailgun area of e1m1.) The nailgun room goes dark when you touch a trigger etc. as we all know. I did not change the size of the door and I did not change any lights in the NG room, just outside (in the bridge area.)
Can slanted/angled faces make this error suddenly appear? I'm pretty much rebuilding parts of the level now because I decided to align all textures. ^^
Is there a way of checking at which coordinates the affected face is?
And the questions of today:
1) I am teleporting in monsters with the standard teletrap setup. Apparently teleported monsters wake up (they seem to lose the ambush flag which I set.)
Is there a way to make teleported monsters (any monster, really) return to the ambush state (not moving until it sees you), either via a trigger that the monster touches, or via quakeC (nextthink or the like)? I could of course use func_doors to trap them, but that seems a bit bulky.
Basically, I want to re-stock an area with monsters, all triggered by a trigger_once and teleported in. Those monsters should then go to ambush state (do nothing until player in sight.)
2) Is it in some way possible to get onto the TOPMOST crate at the start of e1m2, without explosives (i.e. in normal singleplayer)?
There are slopes nearby. Perhaps with enough speed... Anyone managed this jump? Possible or not? (in netquake)
What determines the height of a slope jump? The slope's angle? The speed?
and yes, this has level design implications :-)
3) Hypothetically, let's say someone would find a lightning gun just before entering Ziggurat Vertigo (also in normal singleplayer.) Furthermore, let's say the following maps had double the monster count, plus tougher monsters.
It wouldn't be imbalanced, would it.
:-D
Golden_boy
#5907 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.121] on 2007/03/11 00:23:02
If you're using my Light tool, you'll get coordinates and tex name for each face with too many styled lights on it. And I think switchable lights also count as styled (e.g. a light can't be both switchable and styled at the same time).
This problem can be seen e.g. in hipend.
AguirRe
#5908 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.78] on 2007/03/11 21:14:37
I got the full download of your tools and suddenly all problems are gone.
The Light warning has vanished (I got my sanity back, thanks) and all animated textures are there.
Just wow.
I was using tools modified by Alexander Malmberg before (from the quest website.) I am using quest because I can't run radiant on my laptop (no GL) and no other editors will run under Linux.
Luckily, your tools run under Wine (windows emulator.)
thanks man.
AguriRe
#5909 posted by ijed [201.222.205.36] on 2007/03/12 00:59:09
Deserves some sort of Quake community medal.
ARGH!
#5910 posted by ijed [201.222.205.36] on 2007/03/12 00:59:46
AguirRe
Heheh
#5911 posted by R.P.G. [65.188.147.21] on 2007/03/12 02:48:09
Well I think if we all just spelled his name right consistently that might be thanks enough. :)
Yeah
#5912 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.106] on 2007/03/12 17:51:40
I won't look back. I even tried writing Linux makefiles for his tools, but apparently they contain windows-or microsoft specific code. No idea. They don't compile.
Anyway, the tools are great (the lighting! WOW) so I'm absolutely going to live with that.
I knew I didn't have more than 2 light styles there :-D :-D :-D
Anyone Know A Way...
#5913 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/13 11:45:32
to get a list of all the precache models in a level along with the total number?
Mcache
#5914 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.22] on 2007/03/13 11:59:08
for mdl/bsp/spr and soundlist for wav.
AguirRe
#5915 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/13 15:36:08
Just the job. Thanks very much.
232 models :/ I guess that means I have at most 24 more triggers, doors or additional precaches I can use, though I suspect there are some engines that precache their own extra things for enhanced explosions, shotgun shells etc.
Do you know off the top of your head the max number of edicts? Is edicts something that can be increased at the command line in a regular Quake engine?
Edicts
#5916 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.118] on 2007/03/13 17:01:20
Oldest engines (DOSQuake?): 450
Old engines: 600
Old Neh engines: 1000
Joe: 2048
Fitz: cvar, up to 8192
My engines: 4096
DP: 32768
Other engines may be different. I haven't seen any cmd line option for edicts.
Usually, it doesn't help much increasing just the edict limit, as having many edicts will just generate packet overflows or SZ_GetSpace errors instead. The only engines I know that can handle many edicts are DP and my own.
Size Limit On Rooms?
#5917 posted by STALEPIE [24.98.201.149] on 2007/03/13 22:08:02
I'm working on a level where you are at the top of a tall cliff and you're shooting rockets down far below. Is there a limit to the size of a room in Quake? I get a lot of tearing in the distance I think because the room and blocks are too big.
How Do You Mean?
#5918 posted by ijed [190.82.52.120] on 2007/03/13 22:52:13
By tearing - it sounds like HOM (hall of mirrors). It also depends on your engine. In AguirRe's the only limit is created by including fog, which sets a clip plane before it's end that can chop long distance stuff (not sure how far, 1024 units or so).
If you include fog with a low density and have long distances this'll crop up. If not you should be able to see from one corner of a max extents box to the other. Though it does depend on the engine.
Other than that you can try looking for tiny brush misalignments - the usual cause for HOM's.
#5919 posted by STALEPIE [24.98.201.149] on 2007/03/13 23:32:49
I'm using WinQuake and might start using DOS. I made my giant room smaller and now it doesn't tear much (unless you get in a certain corner with a lot of enemies around). It was just a test map. I was curious if there was some set limit you weren't supposed to go past. Thanks, ijed.
In Original WinQuake
#5920 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.194] on 2007/03/14 00:12:20
try setting
r_maxedges 100000
r_maxsurfs 100000
or just use my Enhanced WinQuake and save yourself a lot of trouble.
#5921 posted by STALEPIE [24.98.201.149] on 2007/03/14 01:11:30
I know the game is ten years old, but I want to design it for the original.
AguirRe
#5922 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/03/14 01:37:52
thanks for the info, you fountain of knowledge you.
Hi Ijed...
#5923 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/03/14 02:46:10
... looks like you found some trax for your pack, but if you need sound in the future drop me a line.
#5924 posted by STALEPIE [24.98.201.149] on 2007/03/14 06:02:48
What is the best program for drawing your own Q1 textures?
Distans
#5925 posted by ijed [190.82.54.20] on 2007/03/14 16:10:44
Thanks for the offer, though I found some that fit really well. I thought about asking but didn't want to because it'd be alot to make in a short time.
But now I've got some computer issues so I don't know how long it'll take for release; bah.
Stalepie
#5926 posted by MadFox [84.26.6.144] on 2007/03/14 20:44:02
search Wally or Texmex
http://www.quakeone.com/navigator/
#5927 posted by STALEPIE [24.98.201.149] on 2007/03/14 21:28:08
Thanks, Madfox.
Marksurface Issue
#5928 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/03/15 22:38:51
I'm currently working on a big project (i.e Doom3 Hell level remake), and I exceeded this evening the maximum marksurface value (i.e message is WARNING: Marksurfaces 34803 exceed normal engine max 32767 , with aguirRe's TxQBSP v1.12). I'm able to load the map with aguirRe's engine, but it is choppy as Hell with FitzQuake...
I just would like to know if there's something I can do either to dicrease Marksurfaces in a map... without removing any poly (and it is not yet finished....), either if there's something to do with engine options... or if I have to restrict the map to aguiRre's engine ?
Any advices ?
JPL
#5929 posted by negke [82.83.37.29] on 2007/03/15 23:15:37
if you're planning to expand the map further, you likely have a problem. you can try to lower marksurfaces by turning some structures into funcs, moving them away from adjacent brushes, or reducing faces by merging them into individual textures.
JPL
#5930 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.95] on 2007/03/16 01:07:49
According to other mappers, marksurfaces might go up and down while adding more brushes, so you could try continue working on it and see if they drop.
Furthermore, if Fitz is just choppy, I doubt that it's the marksurfs that's causing it (normally it would crash if the marksurfs were exceeded). You could also check with e.g. JoeQuake.
Try upping heapsize instead and see if that helps, e.g. 48-64MB.
Yes Marksurfaces Can Make You Insane!
#5931 posted by Hrimfaxi [89.186.161.119] on 2007/03/16 01:14:02
Sometimes they go up other times they go down.
I'm having trouble with marksurfaces as well on the map I have in beta.
I have found that Fitzq can handle marksurfaces up to around 38000 and then it crashes! Anything under this seems to be safe although it's over the max.
Indeed...
#5932 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/03/16 03:25:12
...if you can build it over the limit Fitz will handle it to where Hrimfaxi indicates. But, JPL if this thing is as big as I think then you might seriously consider chopping it up at some logical point. The only way I could get qte2m3 to work in the end was lop off everything past the GK door and turn that into a separate "end" level...that and simplify some of the natural rock formations in the main map (that was painful =/ but necessary)
Good luck with it either way.
Fitz And Exceeded Max Marksurfs
#5933 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/03/16 06:04:13
I am currently having problems with the number of marksurfs in my large map, but fitzquake still loads it. The thing you need to be careful of in fitz is that when marksurfs, clipnodes etc. are exceeded, memory gets randomly overwritten. I don't know exactly how random this is, because at the moment there are no noticeable problems with my map. However, when I had too many clipnodes as well as marksurfs, the last func entities that I created were becoming nonsolid - I guess this is just because there were too many clipnodes to fit into memory and the solid entities were the last things being loaded so they became nonsolid.
I have had fitz crash because of exceeded maxsufs before, but oddly it doesn't crash as soon as you pass the limit. Anyone know why?
Hhmmmmm
#5934 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/03/16 08:57:14
Thanks a lot for all the advices... I think I will continue my work as I just need one more corridor and a room plus the final area to finish the map... Maybe it will pass with a fullvis process... In anyway, I already have an idea where to split the map... I'll see that later when all the design will be done. Maybe FitzQuake will be able to load it without choppy thing... I don't know what happened, but it occurs after the first monster spawn... pretty weird... I have to re-test it to see if the problem is persistent....
Thanks a lot again ;)
MarkSurfs Crashing
#5935 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.160] on 2007/03/16 11:40:51
The limit *is* 32768, any engine that's not fixed to handle a higher amount will behave unpredictably due to memory being trashed. Depending on how that memory was/is being used, you'll get different results.
JPL: did higher heapsize help the choppyness?
AguirRe
#5936 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/03/16 12:05:30
I still not tested it yet... but I think I've always a -heapsize 48000 added in the command line.. (note I'm not usre of the value ;P ...)
AguirRe
#5937 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/03/17 13:20:47
Well, having -heapsize 48000 option doesn't help much with FitzQuake: the result is that i need to cut the map in two pieces.... Not a big deal....
Anyway, I already said it but, thanks a lot for all the help above :)
Leaks Leaks Leaks
#5938 posted by ionous [70.19.206.140] on 2007/03/19 02:46:32
C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>txqbsp -quiet -numpercent capacitance
TxQBSP 1.11 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Inputfile: capacitance.map
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
100%
100%
WARNING: Reached occupant at (512 -1240 8), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to capacitance.pts
100%
Processing hull 1...
100%
100%
WARNING: Reached occupant at (64 -256 32), info_player_start
Processing hull 2...
100%
100%
34 warnings
So, yes, my map leaks. I don't know why.
The map is completely sealed. I do have complex brushwork, as in 3/4 of a pipe wrapped around curved corners. Could this type of manipulation cause a map to leak, even if it is completely sealed in the editor?
Ionous
#5939 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/03/19 04:54:58
If you are using Worldcraft, the answer is yes. The most likely problem you are likely to face regarding leaking maps and worldcraft is that you have used vertex manipulation to create an invalid brush (i.e. a non-convex volume, or non-planar face). When you try to compile a map with such a problem, the brush shape will be changed by the compiler so that it is convex, which can result in leaks appearing.
You can check for invalid solids by hitting alt-p (should also be in the map->check from problems menu), which will give you a list of problems with your map. DO NOT let Worldcraft auto-fix your problems, as it can sometimes make things worse by deleting things that only required minor modification. The go to error option is, however, completely safe, and is VERY useful for tracking down solid entities that don't have any brushes (if you merge two solid ents, one always remains and causes problems, but can be selected by checking for problems and deleting it manually.)
There are other reasons that a leak might occur, but I think the above mentioned vertex manipulator abuse is the most likely problem. Try checking it out.
By the way, if you add a lot of fields manually to entities rather than modifying your FGD files to include them, Worldcraft's problem checker will report the key/value pair as being an error ("entity has unused key/values") These errors can be ignored completely.
Yay...
#5940 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/03/19 05:12:06
...Ionous is mapping again! I thought we'd lost you buddy, welcome back.
Ionous
#5941 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.114] on 2007/03/19 10:47:24
If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll check it out.
#5942 posted by Trinca [87.196.164.33] on 2007/03/19 11:16:01
i got 311 on mine :\ and i dont have leaks to...
Leaks
#5943 posted by ijed [201.222.202.55] on 2007/03/19 13:20:58
One thing I found with terrain mapping (lots of wedge brushes) is that if it's a long thin wedge then it won't break, but usually breaks any thicker wedges nearby so that the leak goes straight through a solid brush. The only decent way to het round this is avoid thin wedges, or else have a big block inside your terrains, usually alot of em, though that's a ugly and wasteful fix.
Other than that turn all pillar / pipe / cable flanges into func_wall or else leave them 2 units from touching the wall or floor. The second can still produce vis crashes if you have lots of them but the first is completely safe, as long as you don't breach edicts.
As than says use the check for problems function, but don't auto-fix. If you do have invalid brushes you may not be able to fix them without creating from scratch, though that depends on how complex they are.
Can't think of much else (I assume you know about the pointfile command - type it ingame at the console and it's show a particle line pointing at the precise location of the leak).
Hope that helps.
Many Thanks
#5944 posted by ionous [129.63.205.141] on 2007/03/19 17:25:31
Yeah, i am using Worldcraft.
Than:
It appears i have been caught. I was using the method outlined in CZG's curve tutorial to bend a 3/4 piece of hollow pipe (roughly 256 in diamter, with 32 thick edges). When using this method, i found that the edges weren't aligning on the vertices with exact precision, so i using vertex manipulation to get it right. I then got lazy and started doing it purely with vertex manipulation. I'm guessing that might be the problem part.
I have used the "problems" feature, and it claims that the map is without error. It once had errors, but i fixed them manually, and then worldcraft seemed to like it enough to not give me an error.
Distrans:
Thanks, it's been a long time, my mapper's block had gotten so bad that i just decided to stop for like 6 months. Things seem to be going good now. Hopefully Travail isn't giving you splitting migraines.
aguirRe:
Thanks for the offer. I'm not going to be able to touch Worldcraft again until maybe tomorrow, most likely Friday, so if i still can't make the bad leaks go away i'll drop you a line.
ijed:
I wasn't specific enough in my post, but the "pipe" i spoke of is actually the hallway, so i'm not sure if making something like that would work as a function_wall. I may be mistaken, but i'm not sure if i could use a function_wall as a border to the void.
What you said about terrian is interesting though, since i do plan to use a good amount of terrain in my map. What do you mean by breaking brushes, wedges and leaks through solid brushes? I don't quite understand the explanation.
Thanks for the help all.
Ah
#5945 posted by ijed [190.82.55.80] on 2007/03/19 19:35:19
Nope, you can't use a func_ to stop void ;)
The pipe thing (I use the czg method as well) is awkward, you've got to figure out the system of thinking in base 8 and even now I end up redoing it a few times to get it right for a corridor or whatever. I wouldn't recommend vertex manipulation for this - it'll drive you up the wall.
Also, you can just make a blocky corridor when seen from outside, then make it round on the inside with the 12 sided cylinder and double-wedge corner piece. Since the outside is void and not world nobody'll see it.
By blocking off broken brushes I meant putting a quad brush inside your terrain, sealing any hole it has from the void - but this is a big waste and will fuck vis.
When making terrain copy and paste a single unmodified wedge as many times as you'll need it then vertex adjust each piece seperately - WC tends to create errors when copying multiples of these. Either tiny misalignments (leaks) or a slight lip in the ground, so that you hit an invisible wall in the game when walking in a certain direction and then can't get unstuck.
Ionous
#5946 posted by ijed [201.222.200.121] on 2007/03/21 01:16:34
One other thing, probably something else you already know, but I didn't figure this out until a long time of using WC - you can move the camera (not just rotate it) in the 3d view with right click.
If that helps.
Score
#5947 posted by ionous [70.19.206.140] on 2007/03/21 01:43:00
Thanks for the heads up on the camera deal. I always found it annoying that the camera use was limited. That makes it better to use.
Camera In WC
#5948 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/21 03:19:25
they are great.
In addition to being able to move the camera around in both 2d and 3d views, you can create multiple camera views per map by holding shift and dragging in the 2d view when in camera mode. There might be a key to cycle camera views, but I don't know it if there is. Deleting a camera will return you to the last one create before that, or just the default camera (which doesn't have any icon in the 2d views).
In addition to the mouse controls, you can also move the camera around with d/c (zoom in, out - also works in 2d views) and s/f (roll, not very useful). Also, if you learn the shortcuts to switch between camera and other modes, the fact that controlling the camera requires you to be in camera mode (aside from moving it via the keys) won't slow you down anymore.
#5949 posted by Kell [80.192.18.72] on 2007/03/21 05:13:56
iirc, it's page up & page down to cycle through cameras...been a while for me though
Yep
#5950 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/21 09:10:06
pgup and pgdown work, but only in camera mode. In selection mode they seem to do something weird, like add the previous selection to the current one. Maybe you can use it to get the last selection if you lose the selection.
...hmm, just tried it, and in selection mode pgup and pgdown have very odd behaviour. This is what it says in the WC help:
PgUp - previous selection in "hit" list
PgDn - next selection in "hit" list
Whatever the fuck that means.
WC Help
#5951 posted by Ankh [192.100.130.7] on 2007/03/21 09:35:39
I think that many WC and Hammer users should spend some time reading the users guide included in the program. It is an interesting read. There are many tips and pictures. All the features mentioned above are described throughoutly.
Here is a section from Hammer manual about the cameras:
Using Cameras
To take advantage of the 3D view, you need to be able to place cameras. Cameras determine your vantage point(s). Hammer provides you with precise control over the camera movements in your map.
A camera in Hammer (as displayed in the 2D views) consists of two parts: the eye, and the viewing angle, which is represented by a line extending out from the eye. The length of the line that represents the viewing angle is not important, though it can help you aim the camera exactly at an object.
While it is possible to move a single camera all over the map each time you need to look at something new in the 3D window, it is more convenient to have easy access to multiple cameras placed throughout the map. Hammer allows you to easily cycle through multiple cameras by pressing PageUp and PageDown.
Camera Placement
Placing cameras in Hammer is extremely simple. First, switch to Camera mode by pressing Shift+C, then hold Shift and with the left mouse button, click-drag a line in one of the 2D views. This will create a thin red line with a large dot at one end. The dot is the camera's position, and this is where the 3D camera view will originate. The red line is the camera's viewing angle. You can adjust either end of the line to change the view. Follow the above steps to create as many cameras in your level as you need.
Note: There are a number of options available to you when using multiple cameras. You must have the Camera tool selected to take advantage of these:
PageUp: cycle up to the next camera position
PageDn: cycle down to the last camera position
Delete: delete the current camera position
Shift: hold shift and click-drag with the left mouse button to create a new camera.
Tip: While in camera mode, you can adjust the camera position by moving the eye or viewing angle in any of the 2d windows.
Mouselook/NoClip Style Movement
Version 2.1 of Hammer introduced a new style of 3D View movement called mouselook movement. It is designed to be the same as when you are in the game and walking around with +mlook (mouselook) and the NoClip cheat both turned on. It can be enabled or disabled by pressing (lowercase) z.
Moving your mouse around will change the player's direction of focus, while W and S control forward and backward movement, and A and D control sided to side (left and right strafing) movement.
The old style keyboard shortcuts (listed below) still work. You can disable this new movement style by going into the 3D View options and disabling use mouselook navigation.
Keyboard Shortcuts
There are a number of keyboard shortcuts that you can use to quickly maneuver through the 3D view without switching to the Camera tool.
While holding the spacebar:
holding the left mouse button allows you to rotate your angle of view in any direction, while the viewing point remains stationary.
holding the right mouse button will allow you to move left, right, up, and down while keeping the viewing angle constant.
holding the left and right buttons and moving the mouse causes the view to strafe forward, backward, right, and left. (note that this makes the following behavior redundant).
While holding the spacebar and Shift:
the left mouse button acts the same as above.
the right mouse button allows you to move forward and backward, as well as from side to side.
I Agree
#5952 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/21 09:51:10
read the manual :) The manual will also have information specific to your version of the editor, be it worldcraft 1.6a full (what I use) or one of the more recent Half Life versions/ Hammer.
There is no noclip style movement in WC 1.6a, nor is there any decent hardware acceleration, but I like it's simplicity.
#5953 posted by Ankh [192.100.130.7] on 2007/03/21 11:04:37
the below isn't described in the manual though :)
if you merge two solid ents, one always remains and causes problems, but can be selected by checking for problems and deleting it manually
I didn't know about the above fact but it sems to apply for hammer also. If I knew it before I could solve some problems easily.
Than seems to know many WC features and tricks that aren't described anywhere.
Ankh
#5954 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/21 11:46:54
that is one hell of a nasty problem if you don't know what the cause is or how to fix it. Still, you know now, eh? :)
The absolute WORST problem you can get in worldcraft, however, is when you use the clipper on a multiple brush (or single brush if you are silly) selection and accidentally clip along one of the faces of a brush. This creates an infinitely thin brush which will crash compilers and is a fucker to track down if you have added a lot of other stuff since creating the problem. If you know it can be caused by the clipper, at least you know roughly where the problem might be and in which brushes it is in.
The Absolute Worst Problem
#5955 posted by ijed [201.222.200.121] on 2007/03/21 13:14:57
In WC is using the carver - this evil tool tends to destroy everything it touches. There's no way to delete it from the toolbar which is a shame. Another problem is clipping across multiple brushes that aren't touching (such as when using the czg curve maker method). It'll crash maybe 15% of the time, so always save before doing this.
Never really used the pgup pgdn controls, they didn't seem to follow the order of creation for cameras and in a big map it's pretty creaky switching all over the place to find the one you want. I'll give that a try again, though.
Carve Is The Worst Problem?
#5956 posted by Orl [209.146.26.5] on 2007/03/21 14:56:25
I beg to differ. I will agree that carving can sometimes cause a mess of brushes. But, if you know how to carve carefully, you can avoid most problems. Almost all of the complex brushes in my maps were made by carving. Why? Because I know what carving likes, and does not like.
And in my opinion, carving is much much quicker than manually adjusting the surrounding brushes, which is usually a pain.
As long as you carve carefully, you should never have any problems. I use it constantly, and do not plan to stop.
WC No Crash Tips
#5957 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/03/21 16:40:21
The more you save, the less it crashes. I don't know why this is, but I tend to save very frequently (at least every 5 mins) and it almost never crashes.
Using the clipper can sometimes cause a crash, but if I take it slowly and save between clips when using the tool several times, I don't seem to have any problems.
The only time WC really ALWAYS crashes is when I've been using it for several hours, done a lot of work and then exit. It always crashes when it's closing after a long day of mapping, but otherwise WC crashes are incredibly rare for me these days. Maybe it's my pc, or maybe I'm just naturally avoiding the things likely to make it crash. Hmm.
Well, I Learnt
#5958 posted by ijed [200.113.171.160] on 2007/03/21 19:21:36
That it likes to crash at certain times, so I ended up saving before doing anything I know is risky. I also save compulsively and rarely get crashes.
The one you mention, than, seems to be the compiler crash. It always happens with a bigger than small map build or two. It's not a problem since it's shutting down anyhow, but annoying when it doesn't remember last map worked on on reopen.
Orl - I thought you used QuArK?
Ijed
#5959 posted by Orl [70.17.36.143] on 2007/03/21 20:18:17
Why did you think I used Quark?
Ever since day one of mapping, I have always used Worldcraft 1.1a. And sometimes 1.6.
And 1.1a can crash much more frequently than 1.6, if your not careful.
A Half-remembered Post About Orlmap
#5960 posted by ijed [200.113.171.160] on 2007/03/21 20:37:23
;)
Always use 1.6a, tried the 3.3 conversion but it needs some stuff ironed out - the wad limitations mainly.
Yeah But
#5961 posted by Orl [70.104.70.151] on 2007/03/21 21:49:36
I have my reasons for using 1.1a than 1.6.
And yes, I did try the 3.3 conversion, and after a minute I immediately lost my mapping erection.
Hardware Reasons?
#5962 posted by ijed [200.113.171.160] on 2007/03/21 23:16:40
Also, an implant can help with the other problem.
The Reasons Are...
#5963 posted by Orl [70.104.70.151] on 2007/03/22 00:17:49
... certainly not related to hardware. I'm up to date with all that :) But here are my reasons why I prefer 1.1a to 1.6
1. Zooming. In 1.1a the zoom value is about .06 for each zoom in, whereas in 1.6 the zoom value is .50 and this frustrates me, because either its too close, or its to far away. At least in 1.1a, there are much more zooming values and I can map comfortably.
2. Slowness. 1.6's 3d view runs much slower compared to 1.1a. Even if it's the same exact map, 1.6 renders it much more slowly than 1.1a, thus making texture alignments a real pain in the ass, and I'm forced to use visgroups, which you don't need in 1.1a because it never slows down. And another weird thing. The wireframe 3d mode in 1.6 renders MUCH slower than textured or solid mode. But in 1.1a, Wireframe mode renders much faster than textured or solid. Whats up with that?
3. Selection handles. I hate these things. They not only distract me from the actual brushes themselves, but they sometimes get in the way of other items, normally entities. Thank god 1.1a doesn't have them.
I may have a few smaller gripes about 1.6, but these are the real main issues. However, I do have positive things to say about 1.6
1. No file size limit. 1.1a has a .map file size limit of about 1800kb. 1.6, as far has I know, has no limit.
2. Better shearing manipulation than 1.1a.
Thats about it really. All those extra features in 1.6 I do not use. Anything 1.6 can do, 1.1a can do as well, to a degree. And there you have it.
The Problem Appears To Be Fixed
#5964 posted by ionous [70.19.206.140] on 2007/03/23 03:23:06
I had no luck fixing the leak myself, so i sent it off to AguirRe. He said that he really couldn't do much, as it seem that my curves were not exactly snapped to the vertices, so it was causing the compiler all sorts of headaches. So i thought that perhaps if i scaled up the size of the pipe, that would make it large enough to have all of the vertices lie on the grid. I rebuilt, and tested, and was met with failure. Several times, to the point of my girlfriend imploring me to stop working on it.
(I didn't)
Well, since this wasn't working, i rebuilt the pipe example in CZG's tutorial, which obviously compiled without incident. I compared this to my failed ventures, to see what was different. I'm pretty sure i've isolated the issue.
In order for curved pipes to compile properly, it would appear that:
The diameter of the outer region of the pipe must be equal to the radius on the inner section of the pipe.
On the pipes i was trying to make, the above ration was not used, leading to a leak every single time.
I'm guessing that if the ratio stays the same, it betters the scalibility of the pipe, so when it's stretched in strange and unusual fashion, it causes for vertices to be formed off-grid. Or something.
Does this sound cogent?
Like I Said Before,
#5965 posted by ijed [201.222.206.102] on 2007/03/23 13:05:42
You have to think in base 2 (8 for doing the stretching). Basicly everything in games works on power of two and is sqaure. The textures in Quake that are rectangular slow down the engine because it basicly converts them to square before drawing.
The wedge used for the pipe bending is 2x4 to the grid, which means all subsequent structures are based off that ratio, if it's different or off-grid then it won't work, like you say, lots of holes and warped shapes.
Hopefully that makes sense, but usually you just have to sit there in editor and mess with it until it clicks.
Textures
#5966 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/23 20:47:28
The textures in Quake that are rectangular slow down the engine because it basicly converts them to square before drawing.
Okay, this isn't really true. Video cards (except some of the newest ones) can only handle texture dimensions that are powers of two, but they don't have to be square -- a 64x128 texture is just fine, for example.
Second, non-power-of-two textures don't slow the engine down except perhaps for a few nanoseconds at load time when the engine resamples them to a power-of-two so that the video card will accept it. But there is no performance hit during play.
Ah, Ok
#5967 posted by ijed [200.113.171.215] on 2007/03/23 21:37:55
Although I did mean power of 2 textures that are rectangular.
The problem with non power of 2 on modern cards is that a default colour is generally inserted to fill in the space and make them power of 2. Which can cause some strange visual effects, like a load of black lines marching down a wall or pixellated artefacts on eg. a fontsheet.
Ijed:
#5968 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/24 00:33:31
is that really true? I would think that sort of artifact would result from bad resampling done by the application.
I assumed that the cards that truly support it (using ARB_texture_non_power_of_two in OpenGL for example) would support it seamlessly and without artifacts -- otherwise, what's the point?
However, I have not personally seen it in action.
Yep
#5969 posted by ijed [201.222.200.188] on 2007/03/24 01:19:09
A fontsheet is typically 1024x2 and we spent nearly a week trying to sort one out, convinced it was an art problem but unable to find it. Turned out nobody thought to check the dimensions. Random letters had a one pixel almost invisible line along one edge, but depending on the tv / where the text was on the screen it could be invisible.
We weren't building for PC but it's the same kettle of fish. Turned out the image template was saved in 1023x1024, thanks to some option of the fontsheet exporter. These are the basic kind of things that are overlooked for platforms, like full .png support etc.
Ijed:
#5970 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/03/24 10:03:58
what platform? are you sure the hardware really supported it and there wasn't some code in the API that silently resampled it at load time?
I confess to know basically nothing about console development, except that PS2 devkits are really noisy.
And 360's Drop To Pieces
#5971 posted by ijed [201.222.204.149] on 2007/03/24 15:43:14
;)
Bounding Box V Model...
#5972 posted by distrans [59.167.39.77] on 2007/03/25 11:23:21
One beastie I'm working with at the moment has a bounding box as big as the doggie but a model that is quite low to the ground. The player can actually jump over the thing. So, does collision detection work differently model:model and model:world?
And...
#5973 posted by distrans [59.167.39.77] on 2007/03/25 11:27:02
...I'm using fitz80 (with a custom progs) and when I'm in -developer 1 and have the SNG, if I shoot a brush object I get a message telling me what it is (worldspawn, func_wall etc.). Is this a feature of fitz80 I've never noticed or the result of ineraction with the progs?
Bounding Box
#5974 posted by Preach [217.42.221.233] on 2007/03/25 14:40:00
The bounding box of the model is only used for the engine to determine when it needs to render it. But the hitbox set by the QC with setsize() is used for collsion between player and monster, for instance. So if the height is set low enough you can indeed jump on them.
And that SNG message was a dev thing I put in to try and fix a bug, it'll be removed in the next version.
Lightwave To Quake Map
#5975 posted by iain [217.43.191.36] on 2007/03/25 18:44:34
Hi,
Having some problems getting a lwo to convert into a map or bsp? Any recommended tools or utils? A lot have disappeared over the years, anyone got any on a dusty harddrive. Many thanks.
iain.price@hotmail.co.uk
Ta Preach...
#5976 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/03/26 04:10:06
...you are the bomb, as usual.
I definitely won't be binning that progs version :). It's annoying when one is "playing" in developer mode, but might be extremely useful when one is debugging a level.
#5977 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/03/26 09:51:04
...I'm using fitz80 (with a custom progs) and when I'm in -developer 1 and have the SNG, if I shoot a brush object I get a message telling me what it is (worldspawn, func_wall etc.). Is this a feature of fitz80 I've never noticed or the result of ineraction with the progs?
huh... must be the progs :)
Modding Is Easy
#5978 posted by pjw [71.90.27.94] on 2007/03/27 02:59:28
Checking your post to make sure it isn't broken? Or ever returning to the thread?
That stuff's tough...
Yep, I'm Dumb.
#5979 posted by pjw [71.90.27.94] on 2007/03/27 03:00:28
That should have been in the Jobs thread.
(Posting in the right thread? That shit's damn-near impossible.)
Quoth Add-Ons
#5980 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.7] on 2007/03/30 16:32:02
There are several Quoth add-ons being developed and the current situation is that all have to co-exist in the main Quoth directory. This is cumbersome and highly error-prone both for developers and players as pak files must be arranged/renamed to avoid conflicts. When more paks are added, the situation will deteriorate pretty quickly.
I'll probably add a new engine option -quoth to solve this problem in the same manner as other major Q1 mods; hipnotic, rogue and nehahra. This option will make it possible for each new Quoth mod to have its own directory and still load things from the main Quoth dir. So instead of having a command line
-hipnotic -game quoth
you'll have e.g.
-quoth -game warp
(if the mod is called warp) and instead of having conflicting pak files all in the Quoth dir, you'll just have the overriding ones in your own mod dir, beginning with pak0.pak and upwards as usual. Engine resource search order is then current dir (the mod dir), quoth and finally id1.
The -quoth option will automatically set the -hipnotic behaviour for the engine (basically the status bar), but will not add the hipnotic dir in the search order, i.e. it will not require anything from hipnotic paks. AFAIK, this is how Quoth wants it; it doesn't require hipnotic to be installed to work.
The engine code to add this behaviour is simple, just a few lines in a few source files and it follows the same manner as all other major Q1 mods. I'm testing it right now and it seems promising.
Any comments to this? Have I missed something?
#5981 posted by necros [74.111.254.57] on 2007/03/30 18:31:28
while i think that's a really cool idea, wouldn't it be better to have a way so you could load any mod like that? ie: quake -base quoth -game warp so that it could work with any other mod out there where people would make new mods for it.
#5982 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.94] on 2007/03/30 18:44:16
LordHavoc recently modified -game in Darkplaces in a very interesting way.
Usually you want to put replacement content in either id1/ or another directory such as pretty/ inside your quake directory, in DarkPlaces you can run multiple -game options at once (such as -game ctf -game pretty -game dpmod to have texture overrides from pretty, maps from ctf, and gameplay from dpmod) or multiple gamedirs specified with the gamedir console command (gamedir ctf pretty dpmod).
I wonder though what priority there is. Looks like the last -game overrides the previous. "-game first second third" would be more logical on a first glance for me where first is the "master" (overrides all previous). Dunno.
"-base quoth -game whatever" looks nice to me. One should not want to use more than 2 mods at the same time anyways (normally). It would be a bit nicer if something was changed in .pak usage. Like getting rid of the pak0, pak1, pak2 and allowing any name for them (maybe even proceed to .pk3 or just .zip/.7z/something). Maybe choose the paks with 1..., 2... in their name to be first, second priority.
Just brainstorming. ;)
Looks Like A Nice Simplification
#5983 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/03/30 18:55:37
The multiple packs pending are going to be awkward to arrange properly, so this is a great idea. It has other side bonuses as well - quicksaves, screenshots and demos (etc.) will be kept seperate, allowing clean folders without conflicting junk confusing what's where.
Warp enters final beta in seven days since I've got plenty of time to work on it atm; having this feature will allow me to avoid stepping on anyone's toes or mangling the end-user's Qouth folder.
Good idea!
Necros
#5984 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.57] on 2007/03/30 19:54:09
I thought about that too, but then you'd lose the custom connection with hipnotic behaviour, which means you'd have to specify that as well.
More important, this is a really simple extension and it's not like there are dozens of major Q1 mods ... This is basically the first SP mod after Nehahra that needs this treatment.
As for DP, AFAIK it already uses precisely this syntax probably more than any other engine for all its supported mods; nehahra, transfusion etc.
Simplicity might also be imperative to getting metl to put it in Fitz soon ... ;)
Aha
#5985 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/30 20:58:08
So, this is something i've thought about before.
The way -game works is it adds a few extra paths onto the list of searchpaths for loading a file. For example, if you are playing rubicon2, then quake would try to load each file from locations in the following order:
rubicon2/pak0.pak
rubicon2/ (unpacked files)
id1/pak1.pak
id1/pak0.pak
id1/ (unpacked files)
There's no reason you couldn't add more -game commands on the command line and have them added to the searchpath list (after increasing the array size so it doesn't overflow.) Paths at the top of the list would always override paths further down the list.
I would prefer to mimic darkplaces syntax (-game quoth -game mymod) for the sake of standards, rather than "-quoth" which would be inconsistent with DP and would provide less general functionality (since it only works with quoth.) But I understand that you'd still need -hipnotic.... hmm.
In the case of fitzquake, since you can dynamically change moddirs using a "game" command in the console, I would have to modify the command to take more arguments... "game quoth mymod" for example.
One weird thing about -hipnotic and -rogue is that they do more than affect the searchpath list, they also change some things in the HUD. Fitzquake currently can't turn that stuff on or off in the console, unfortunately. It's something I should look into.
Okay...
#5986 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/30 20:59:17
I can see how -quoth makes the task simpler from a coding standpoint, so maybe your idea is the right one :)
If There
#5987 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.138] on 2007/03/30 22:33:21
ever was a standard in handling add-ons to add-ons, it *is* the -hipnotic, -rogue, -nehahra syntax. All engines work like this and should therefore be able to add this option without problems.
My proposal is a simple and neat solution to a growing problem. Once you start generalizing it, it'll just be more convoluted and less coders will be interested in adopting it.
A few simple lines in a few source files, that's it. In my engines, it's actually only two files and the header file is optional since the var is only used in common.c.
It should also be noted that a Quoth mod that's distributed in this way, will not shut out all other engines that don't support it. The player will then just have to re-arrange the pak files in the main Quoth dir instead, and this is something they'd have to do anyway.
The only drawback I've seen so far is that someone (like me) that regularly swaps engines while testing mods, will have to make some arrangements when using engines that don't support the -quoth option.
But I think I'd rather have that, than the pak file mess in the Quoth dir that I have now.
Aguirre:
#5988 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/03/31 00:43:44
i meant standard in the sense that the only engine that can currently load quoth + another mod is darkplaces, so if we copy that then all engines do it the same way.
However, I support your plan for its simplicity. You could probably convince lordhavoc to implement it in DP as well, since he often adds things to DP that are motivated by the needs of specific mod projects.
There Is
#5989 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.47] on 2007/03/31 10:18:07
of course the question of Quoth2, should it be put in the main Quoth dir or should it always be included in newer Quoth mods?
The former is the most space-saving alternative, but it basically requires that Quoth2 is completely backwards compatible in order not to break existing Quoth1 mods. Also, it requires that any further Quoth core development has the same characteristics.
The latter requires more duplicated files in newer mod distributions, but OTOH it'll not break anything and is the preferred route if Quoth is going to be further developed. There's a lot more freedom in this alternative.
Naturally, both routes will quickly become a seriously complex mess if new Quoth mods are placed in the main Quoth dir (which is the current situation).
There are of course more alternatives; e.g. to rename the existing Quoth dir to quoth_old and put together a new Quoth dir that essentially is Quoth2, which then can be used as the base with the -quoth option. Or add yet another engine option -quoth2 that automatically will include both dirs in correct order.
But all this is probably stretching it too far, this is not a proposal to solve any and all potential problems in the bright future when there are dozens of new Q1 mods in various versions being released each month ...
#5990 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.90] on 2007/03/31 16:48:47
The way I handle multiple pak files is with symlinks.
I name my extension pak "plaguespak.pak" and make a symlink like this:
ln -s plaguespak.pak pak(number).pak
That way I always know what is inside a pak file.
It's the same with progs. dat and (Q2) gamei386.so files; I have a progs.dat.qdq linked to progs.dat, a gamei386.lazarus.so linked to gamei386.so etc. The expansion pak retains a meaningful name _and_ the engine thinks everything is OK.
In my mod directories (like BB, hipnotic etc) I have the corresponding speedrun demos; I just dumped the paks in there, named them nhrun.pak and linked them to pak(number).pak. So I can easily watch a NH run of the map I'm on without changing gamedir or using complicated command line switches.
I guess that's expecting too much from the average windows user though :-/ afaik symlinks are practically unknown in that culture.
Uh, Yeah
#5991 posted by ijed [201.222.207.248] on 2007/03/31 18:24:30
I don't know what the hell you're talking about ;)
Now for wikipedia . . .
#5992 posted by gb [89.27.252.90] on 2007/03/31 20:48:06
No problem. At least you didn't ask if I was taking drugs.
A symlink is practically something that looks like a file, has a name like a file, but in reality only links to a file.
You can have a file called pak0.pak whose single purpose is to link to another file. If your Quake engine calls for pak0.pak, the symlink pops up and says "Hey! That's me!" and in reality only redirects the Quake engine to "quoth.pak" or whatever (any path really.)
Thus your Quoth pak can keep a name that means something instead of being renamed to pak0.pak (where you quickly forget what the hel is inside it.) Pretty neat feature.
When you combine this with shell scripts, you can do all kinds of stuff with files (create a symlink before you start your program, delete the symlink on shutdown, automatically... anything. You can redirect binaries to a number of different config files etc.)
For example, I have extra X11 config files for games in fullscreen mode. The game gets their own X server, their own config... and afterwards, everything looks like normal again. (X11 is Linux' windowing system.) The benefit is that nothing else uses that instance of X11, so the game runs faster/better. Symlinks are used to redirect the X11 program to non-default config files.
yadda yadda :-) it's practical for PAK file housekeeping purposes, that's all.
I also use symlinks to my Quake config in my mod folders.
Without Knowing
#5993 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.114] on 2007/03/31 21:47:37
any details, I assume it's an OS/FS feature available in *nix? I don't know if Windows' NTFS has a similar feature, otherwise maybe upcoming (Vista++?) versions of it might.
Sounds useful if you know what you're doing.
Hmmm
#5994 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.193] on 2007/03/31 23:20:34
Sounds useful if you know what you're doing.
That pretty much sums up the *nix experience :)
Hrm
#5995 posted by NotoriousRay [69.250.98.187] on 2007/04/01 04:45:08
any details, I assume it's an OS/FS feature available in *nix? I don't know if Windows' NTFS has a similar feature, otherwise maybe upcoming (Vista++?) versions of it might.
There are NTFS hardlinks, which are basically the same thing I beleive, and I don't think they're officially supported. It's one line of script-code in AutoIt, I've used them to get around certain apps that don't tolerate root directories well (so I hardlink a subdir somewhere to that root dir and all is well)
Necros
#5996 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.180] on 2007/04/01 19:47:42
While testing the new -quoth engine option, I noticed that in Quoth2 (beta from Nov 2006), there's one h_scourg.mdl that's required from the hipnotic paks to work.
Are you aware of this issue or should I assume that Quoth2 actually will require hipnotic to be installed?
#5997 posted by Kell [80.192.18.72] on 2007/04/01 19:50:42
we're aware of it, it's just the scorpion gibbed head model we forgot to put in the beta
Thanks
#5998 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.52] on 2007/04/01 21:05:03
..
Metl
#5999 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.88] on 2007/04/02 12:08:07
I've simplified the -quoth option handling and removed the global var so it's even easier to add the feature now. With this design, you can still add the -hipnotic option if you want to, even though Quoth normally doesn't need it. Idea copied from JoeQuake.
Code sections below from two areas in Fitz' common.c (leading dots only for indentation):
if (COM_CheckParm ("-hipnotic") || COM_CheckParm ("-quoth"))
{
....hipnotic = true;
....standard_quake = false;
}
==========
if (COM_CheckParm ("-rogue"))
....COM_AddGameDirectory (va("%s/rogue", basedir) );
if (COM_CheckParm ("-hipnotic"))
....COM_AddGameDirectory (va("%s/hipnotic", basedir) );
if (COM_CheckParm ("-quoth"))
....COM_AddGameDirectory (va("%s/quoth", basedir) );
Aguirre:
#6000 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/04/02 21:05:53
thanks.
Blurf
#6001 posted by Lunaran [76.201.146.79] on 2007/04/23 05:51:42
I'm working on detailing a Q3 map at the moment, based on a blockout I did for the Raven lunchtime RA crowd. It doesn't need detailing because they play with it as is, but as long as I have the layout I figured I might as well throw some guns in the corners and make it Lun3DM5.
I wanted to go for a similar theme to Strombine, with plenty of brick and metal trusswork, but I'm finding myself getting stuck. I had gone ahead and been as abstract and free as usual with my blockout since surely I can bend any theme to any shape because I'm fucking Lunaran, but I'm finding the proliferation of 26° and 45° angles really don't lend themselves to the boxy functionalism of a factory space. They also make it impossible to do the distinctive sloped ceilings and peaked roofs.
My original plan had been to just go ugly 70's poured concrete everywhere, because the images you see of old bunkers and other structures where the whole building looks like a blank canvas for weathering and decay are really awesome. I thought I might get that kind of variety out of liberal decal use but it turned out to be a lot of decals for very little payoff.
I'm still wanting to do something that's less abstract and fantastical than previous maps, just because doing the same thing over and over is easy, but I'm afraid I might have confined myself to such things by starting with a blockout shell that requires it.
It's probably nothing anyone can help with per se, I just thought I'd vent, and GA is currently wrapped up in a discussion about economics.
Lunaran
#6002 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/04/23 08:29:05
I saw your Q4 Strombine map (thank to PlanetQuake), and I think you should open a news thread for this map: it deserves it IMHO. I don't have Q4 on my PC, but the shots are particularly realistic: Good work !
Error
#6003 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/04/23 15:58:45
so yeah, i'm working on a map (q1). i've been using glquake to test it, with no problems. i just tried it with winquake though and got the error:
"mod_numknown == MAX_MOD_KNOWN"
when i tried to load it, resulting in winquake dying. any ideas?
It's An Array
#6004 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.41] on 2007/04/23 16:54:40
of known "mods" in the engine that's exceeded. A mod is any unique bsp/mdl/spr that has been loaded into the engine in the current session.
The original limit was 512 and you typically exceed it by loading many bsps in sequence that also require many mdls/sprs. My engines and DP have higher limits.
What exactly are you trying to do when this happens?
Addendum
#6005 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.41] on 2007/04/23 16:57:22
I see now that the original limit was actually only 256 in WinQuake and 512 in GLQuake, that's probably why you're seeing a difference. Still, it's not so common to hit that limit.
I See..
#6006 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/04/23 19:12:05
well, it was only the 3rd map in the session i'd loaded, was checking round 2 others first (it's kind of an episode i'm working on).. and i'm sure i've played through many many more maps at a time than that! could it be something to do with not allocating extra memory? just realised i didn't do that
still i tried again and got it to load on it's own.. just relieved it's not a prob with the map
It's A Static Array
#6007 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.243] on 2007/04/23 20:21:43
in most engines, i.e. it doesn't help to have more RAM or heapsize. Is it reproducable? Are you using a custom progs that loads a lot of stuff?
Texture Trouble
#6008 posted by Orl [141.150.221.226] on 2007/05/04 15:41:51
So here I am, mapping away happily in WC 1.6. I make a wall, it has Texture X on it. I replace it with Texture Y. I save, and close WC for now. Upon re-loading the map in WC, the wall that I replaced with Texture Y, still has Texture X on it.
Apparently, this certain wall does not want to change its texture, no matter what I try. I mean, I can change the texture to Texture Y during my current session in WC, but once I save and re-open it, the texture reverted itself back to Texture X. What black magic is this?
Anybody else experience something like this, and have a solution?
Worldcraft Texture Naming Bug
#6009 posted by ijed [201.236.69.154] on 2007/05/04 15:47:59
You've got to rename texture X or Y to fix it, inside the Wad. I'm not sure what the proper convention is so that Worldcraft doesn't revert your textures. Alot of Kell's metal textures have the same problem, just for the name, though its not something that was possible to forsee.
Its an irritating bug but can be easily solved in TexMex.
Well I Fixed It But....
#6010 posted by Orl [141.150.221.226] on 2007/05/04 16:21:08
Renaming the texture in the wad file was not helping. Here was my situation.
I have 3 textures. wbrick_egy wbrick_egyv1 and wbrick_egyv2.
The wall that was reverting its texture was the texture wbrick_egyv1. So I went into Wally and renamed the 2 textures to wbrick_egvn1 and wbrick_egvn2.
So back into WC, the texture name of the wall was wbrick_egyv1. If I changed the texture to wbrick_egvn1, it would look like it changed, but in reality, the texture name was still wbrick_egyv1. So no matter what texture I could have put on that wall, the texture would have always been wbrick_egyv1.
So the only thing I could do to fix it was to delete the wall and make a new one with the correct texture.
Orl
#6011 posted by inertia [134.53.176.37] on 2007/05/04 17:36:09
I believe WC 1.6 only uses the first 8 letters of a texture name when matching names.
I've Had This Problem
#6012 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/04 17:43:47
i *think* the way it works is that when you're replacing the texture, if the first ~8 or so digits of the new tex's name are the same as the old one, it doesn't save properly and reverts to the old texture when you reload. next time it happens try renaming your new texture to w_brickegbnv1 or something like that
D'oh Too Slow
#6013 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/04 17:44:12
For Rj
#6014 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/04 19:21:49
In the mapping contest thread you wanted to know how hard it was to add monster spawning to the standard progs. There's a tutorial on how to do that at:
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
It might not be exactly how it's done in quoth, but it will probably do what you want.
Thanks Preach
#6015 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/04 23:35:13
i'll just go step quietly back into my corner..
I Made
#6016 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.6] on 2007/05/05 01:23:12
a so called spawn64 progs for JPL's CDA map, it has basically the same spawning as Quoth (or Zerstörer actually).
If you wish, I can update it to my latest std id1 fixes and you could check it out.
Just Fyi
#6017 posted by necros [99.244.63.59] on 2007/05/05 02:13:25
i don't think the quoth spawning is that good... in fact, it's probably the worst way to do it. preach's looks a lot lot better and a lot simpler too.
Well
#6018 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/05 05:30:38
would it be possible to change it then? without b0rking maps using the previous method? remember, when it comes to code I know nothing
Sure
#6019 posted by necros [99.244.63.59] on 2007/05/05 06:39:17
just delete all the spawning stuff and use preach's nicer method, replacing spawnflag values where appropriate to keep it from breaking existing maps.
i really only skimmed his method though, and it may not be any better. :P
it looks like all the spawning stuff goes through the same function, unlike how i did it which was to have a seperate function for each monster.
preach's method looks more streamlined and... uh.. unified, i think is the term.
it's just that it's really boring and long to do cause you gotta open up 20 or 30 something monster qc files and change the same lines of code over and over.
NOOOOoooooo !!!!!
#6020 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/05/05 11:12:23
If you change spawning method, I will have 3 maps to rework entirely !
And what about back compatibility ! Please don't do that Kell !
JPL
#6021 posted by Kell [77.97.238.35] on 2007/05/05 12:23:08
wtf do you think I was asking about? backwards compatibility is exactly what I want to keep
Aguire:
#6022 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/05 15:03:10
i would have said yes but judging by the previous few replies, preach's technique looks more like the option to go for. what other fixes are incorporated in your progs?
i've been slowly grappling together bits of code from various sources to come up with my own progs.dat for the episode i'm working on. i'm no coder by any means but i'm starting to understand some of the qc basics & have gotten a few new mods to work ok. i actually browsed the inside3d tuts before but somehow missed that one.. dammit
Too Many To
#6023 posted by aguirRe [213.101.72.161] on 2007/05/05 16:43:53
mention ...
As for spawning simplicity, how can it be much simpler for the mapper to just add 64 to the spawnflags and a targetname for a teleporting monster?
#6024 posted by Trinca [87.196.255.162] on 2007/05/05 19:27:28
aguirRe is right i use in Quoth and real easy what´s the big problem?
Kell
#6025 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/05/05 21:41:23
Sorry, I misunderstood the subtelty of your sentence... and I also think that spawn64 method is really good. it is very simple to use, so please don't change it.
Maybe coders have another point of view... but I think the sipmpliest it is for users, the better it is.
My 2 cents...
Quoth Spawning
#6026 posted by ijed [201.222.205.219] on 2007/05/06 04:30:53
Works well, and is very simple to use. The func_hordespawn has an issue but nothing killer.
As far as I can see the only way it could be improved is spawning entities with preset variables, targets or killtargets, for example.
HL1 had this but from the (very) little I know of QC it's none too simple.
Ijed...
#6027 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/06 08:17:54
quoth spawning lets you set targets and killtargets no problem. In fact, enemies you choose to spawn can be set up exactly as if they were regular unspawned enemies because that's what they are. The spawnflags just delay their spawn. You can even have them spawn and go to path_corners and it works no problem.
Unless you are referring to the hordespawn. I guess it would be cool to be able to set enemies spawned with that to have targets so you could unlock a door after the player kills 10 monsters spawned from it. I've never tried to use it though, so maybe there is a way.
Yep, Hordespawn
#6028 posted by ijed [201.222.204.211] on 2007/05/06 16:39:50
The open a door thing is a bit straightforward, I was thinking to make some of the more complex horde battles a la Serious Sam - the arena spawns thirty fiends, after you kill ten of them it spawns twenty scrags, once you've killed a total of twenty monsters of either type it spawns ten shamblers and once you've killed all the shamblers the door opens.
And then, if the player runs away they live to fight another day, but if they kill all the monsters a MH unlocks.
Voodoochopsticks...
#6029 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/05/07 05:03:03
...I could use a hand finishing a DM level if you've got the time and the inclination. Your email in the "people" section seems suss. If interested send to my gmail :)
Worldcraft Starting To Stress Me Out.
#6030 posted by Orl [141.150.221.226] on 2007/05/09 02:12:07
So, after a long discussion with aguiRe, apparently WC 1.6 likes to misalign my brushes. What I mean is, I could be working in the .rmf adjusting wedge brushes with the vertex tool. The vertices of the wedge brushes might look perfectly aligned in the .rmf, but in the .map, some vertices are misaligned, sometimes but 8 units or more.
Has anybody else experienced this before? If so, how do you go about working around this?
I'm currently doing my mapping in the .map, but I want to go back to mapping in the .rmf. But with this vertex mishap, I simply cannot.
Orl...
#6031 posted by generic [71.1.68.219] on 2007/05/09 04:04:09
It is sometimes necessary to break wedges diagonally into two separate "spike" brushes, like when trying to create a spiral path ala CZG's curves tutorial.
Orl
#6032 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/05/09 05:41:48
wc does that because it doesn't check to see if your brushes are valid or not. If you use vertex manipulation, you can totally fuck up the validity of a brush if you so desire, so you need to be careful to keep faces planar and brushes convex. As generic mentions, you can build more complex shapes by splitting brushes with the clipper tool. An interesting feature of worldcraft is that if you split an invalid brush with the clipper, the misaligned vertices will change position.
You can actually create REALLY huge problems with the clipper if you aren't careful though. When clipping multiple selections, be sure not to clip along the face of a brush, as WC will create an infitely small brush that will stop compilers but can be a total nightmare to find.
As Well
#6033 posted by ijed [201.222.204.51] on 2007/05/09 14:00:30
Avoid long thin triangles, or ones where the centre handle is close to an edge.
I Followed Generic's Advice And...
#6034 posted by Orl [209.146.26.5] on 2007/05/09 16:06:18
...split the wedges into 2 triangles with the clipper tool, then readjusted them. Surprised to say, that did the trick. So, for every brush I'm going to adjust with the vertex tool, I should split into triangles first?
Yes
#6035 posted by ijed [190.82.46.92] on 2007/05/09 16:10:45
Basicly. It's slow but that the way brushwork is. It depends on how complex the shapes are, for simple terrain you can get away with wedges as long as the centrepoints are fairly central to the brush.
For complex stuff you'll most likely have to break it to four pointed brushes.
#6036 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/05/09 17:34:18
So, for every brush I'm going to adjust with the vertex tool, I should split into triangles first?
not really. providing you keep your faces legal then there should be no need for this.
if you can't figure out what a legal face is then imagine 4 points laid out in a square, like so:
1____2
3____4
and imagine you have a square sheet of thin metal that sits on top of it, meeting each point at the corners.
now, imagine raising point 4 by 5cm or so, and trying to lift one corner of the metal sheet to align with it.. you'll see there's no way to do it without bending the sheet. this is the equivalent of creating an illegal face in your map, so WC ends up trying to correct it when exporting. in order to make it legal yourself, you could either a) raise points 2 & 3 by 2.5cm each, or b) saw the sheet in half diagnonally (clipping equivalent) so you end up splitting the face into 2, which gives you more flexibility (as has been said, 3-sided faces are always legal)
i'm not sure legal/illegal is really the best term but it works :p ..i guess than had it right with 'planar'
Orl
#6037 posted by ijed [190.82.46.92] on 2007/05/09 18:04:14
Do you mean you're having the problem with wedges (5-sided) or tetra triangles (4-sided)?
Whew, Lot Of Stuff To Remember
#6038 posted by Orl [141.150.221.226] on 2007/05/09 20:59:45
I pretty much understand now how I should go about adjusting brushes with the vertex tool. I have never used these 2 tools before, clipper and vertex, and this is why I am asking these questions. I have always been a man of carving.
Thanks much for the help rj, generic, than, and ijed. :)
Do you mean you're having the problem with wedges (5-sided) or tetra triangles (4-sided)?
5 sided wedges is what I was having problems with.
Demo Question
#6039 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/05/14 05:00:24
I have a demo on one of the Travail DM levels that I'd like to use as an opener for the mission. Unfortunately, the demo was recorded on a previous version of the map to the release version. The only difference between to two versions is the Text at worldspawn and the CD track number; file name etc remains the same. Is it possible to hack the demo file so it links to the latest version of the level? Alternatively, is it possible to hack the demo file so it plays with a different CD track?
Dirty Map Title Hack
#6040 posted by negke [82.83.62.146] on 2007/05/14 08:29:14
i don't know how to change the cd track, but you can change the map title by editing the .dem file with a hex editor if the intended title is shorter than the present one (fill the remaining characters with blanks). maybe there's a better way, demo editors for example (e.g. filmat11?).
There Should Be
#6041 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.113] on 2007/05/14 11:56:18
several ways to do those things, I'd probably hex patch it as the CD track and message are at the beginning of the demo file. You can probably also use lmpc, demtool or other similar utility (see SDA downloads).
If the demo isn't so big (dzipped), send it to me and I'll try to patch it.
Cool...
#6042 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/05/16 06:59:51
...you guys are champions, as always.
Ingame Proposal
#6043 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.156] on 2007/05/17 00:16:37
I wondered if it would be possible to add a short ingame show-demo like in hexen2 to a map to give the player information about some act-in-game after pushing a button.
Maybe it has something to do with changing the progs.dat, I don't mind, just wanted to know if it's possible.
Cutscenes
#6044 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2007/05/17 00:38:57
It's possible in some sense, but it's not all that easy, and you need some custom code to do it. You might want to check out zerstorer for an example of what can be done, pushing a button in the second level(among the dead) gives you an in-game cutscene of what the button did(in a different part of the map to the player). The main restriction is that you can't actually play demo files as such, without disconnecting the player. So instead you need to recreate whatever you want to demo "live", which might require a lot of custom qc code.
You might also want to look at the "custents" mod, which has some cutscene code supplied already.
http://wartrench.telefragged.com/c...
This will allow you to change the player's view to a camera when they press a button, and do some scripted sequences. You might need extra code depending on what you want to happen in the cutscene.
Nehahra
#6045 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/17 00:40:26
Does it fairly neatly - but its a big download for your end users.
Custents
#6046 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2007/05/17 00:41:40
Would help if I linked to a download site you could actually download it from, try:
http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy....
Custents
#6047 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.189] on 2007/05/17 00:49:13
supports an in game camera mode that can be used for scene like actions, (close up of Chthon: "Quakeguy we meet again, but this time I have the
upper hand! See. No lightning rods anywhere!), but as far as demos -- I haven't realy experimented but there is a QuakeC patch somewhere in here:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
(sorry, having a brain fart over its name)
that lets you trigger cvars so maybe a setup like this would work:
trigger_cvar(entityfield savegame) --> trigger_relay ---> trigger_cvar(entityfield playdemo) ---> trigger_relay ----> trigger_cvar(entityfield loadgame)
Ah, Missed Preach's Post!
#6048 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.189] on 2007/05/17 00:50:41
Cutscenes Via Cvars
#6049 posted by Preach [131.111.8.102] on 2007/05/17 00:58:56
This method has potential, but there's a problem with the way you describe it. At the moment, once you load that savegame, the first thing the progs will do is load the cutscene again, as you saved just before that command. So you need another cvar like scratch1 as a check to whether the cutscene has run. Something like
cvar_set(scratch1 1)
trigger_cvar(entityfield savegame)
if(scratch1 == 1)
trigger_cvar(entityfield playdemo)
at the end of the demo stuffcmd "scratch1 0;loadgame"
Then when it loads, the cvar has changed so the cutscene isn't run.
Cut-scene/camera
#6050 posted by Mike Woodham [86.146.215.147] on 2007/05/17 09:42:23
In the unreleased portion of FMB-bdg (The Imp's Castle) I had used the cut-scene module from Vision by Darin McNeil.
The scenario is that just as the player picks up one of the keys, the view is switched to a camera showing a reinforcemnt troupe of Ogres rushing across the castle courtyard towards the player. So, the player has been warned but he doesn't know exactly when they will arrive.
I works quite well and was very easy to incorporate into the progs.dat.
Vision Pak
#6051 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.192] on 2007/05/17 11:36:00
Yes, I'd also suggest to take a look at that:
http://www.quaddicted.com/idgames2...
Great!
#6052 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.156] on 2007/05/17 23:09:34
Thanks for your answers! I asked it on the Quakeplanetforum to check if the dates were changing (they didn't) and got rather cheered off.
I don't care about some coding, but I remember this question being asked earlier. The main reason was demo's need to be loaded in the quake engine before the game starts.
And working with camera's is already a big count on my knowledge.
As for the hexen2 exampel, I thought it was made with the Quake2 engine(?) which has other capabilities. Although I thought Quake and Hexen could go through one slipgate.
I'll check the custom ent mod, and try the others also. I ain't have a straight idea for it yet, but as I found myself at some strange mapping ends I was intrigued by the way it was done in The Portal Of Praevus.
New Old Q1 DM Map - Golden Apples Of The Sun
#6053 posted by Borsato [82.163.45.182] on 2007/05/19 19:10:34
So errmm.. I have this q1 dm map, a sequal to my old map "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day" (Summer.bsp) which is 99% finished. it seems however that I just can't get the time to finalise it. It is enormous, fits 16 players easily, and I am not sure what to do with it. What do you guys think? Keep at it or dump through lack of dm interest?
B
My Suggestion, Keep At It
#6054 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.221] on 2007/05/19 20:59:45
and give the map file to Than (if he concurs) so he can build Single Player play into it. Your map would then get the audience it deserves.
Release It!
#6055 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.213] on 2007/05/19 22:21:37
if it is a good ffa map then the qw ffa server(s) will probably install it.
#6056 posted by Borsato [82.163.45.182] on 2007/05/19 23:12:12
Good idea but haven't spoken to than in ages.
Is he on #terrafusion maybe?
Than's Here
#6057 posted by ijed [201.222.203.234] on 2007/05/20 01:04:45
And I'd say if it can fit 16 players then you can get SP working well inside. With or without SP you should release, don't give up.
On Here
#6058 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/20 04:47:25
and TCE as YMLL :) I posted in your level design thread a while ago in fact.
Not sure I really have time to work on an sp conversion of your map, but I wouldn't mind having a look if that's alright with you.
If the map is really big it might be a bit daunting to do a good sp conversion. DM3RMX was a good month or two of work, though a lot of that was spent building stuff, so perhaps adding SP to an existing dm wouldn't be so hard.
Greetings!
#6059 posted by Borsato [213.218.231.18] on 2007/05/20 09:59:26
Long time no speak Than :-)
let's continue this on email?
B
Cck
#6060 posted by MadFox [84.26.140.130] on 2007/05/26 01:49:50
hé that vision pak is great!
Must thank that Darin McNeil for his sense of scripting, although it's more then ten years ago. Had to know this earlier, but before it was just spagethi to me.
Quake C Triggers
#6061 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/28 14:50:07
I'm currently having a look at triggers in QC and am wondering how to implement a new touch trigger type that doesn't precache any model. I basically want this so that I can have a lot of touch triggers without wasting precache ents on something that can be represented by two position vectors.
The plan for the triggers is that the mapper places a point entity on the floor and then enters a vector that defines a box from that point as an offset in x,y and z. The main problem is that I don't know how to make Quake understand that the player has entered this area. The other problem is that I barely remember how QC works at all :)
Any tips would be awesome.
More Regurgitation Of Q2 Lazarus
#6062 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/28 15:43:04
. . . where they had exactly what you're describing, a bbox min and max the defined the area as a trigger once / mutliple / whatever.
I seem to remember it had the problem of always being solid, though you could tell it to autokill itself afer triggered.
There's plenty of documentation of the planetquake/lazarus page, don't know if it'll be much help for Q1 though.
Point Entity Triggers
#6063 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 16:06:50
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
The first half of the post is how to do it, but it's missing one very vital line...
"Find the line
setmodel (self, self.model);// set size and link into world
and replace it with this chunk of code"
should also mention that you are looking for that line in the function "InitTrigger" found in subs.qc
If you have any questions on why it works then fire away.
Re: Quake C Triggers
#6064 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/28 16:09:53
Seems pretty easy actually. All I need to do is create a new InitTrigger function that uses setsize instead of setmodel and then copy the main trigger functions (e.g. void() trigger_once) and replace the InitTrigger call with a call to my new function. I should have probably waited a little longer before posting a message about this actually :)
If it doesn't work then I'll post again >:)
Sorta
#6065 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 16:20:44
It's even easier, you replace the lines in the original InitTrigger, so it now works for both types of trigger. Then you don't need to create any new classnames in theory, just creating a point based entity with classname trigger_multiple will work, and the same goes for any types of trigger. Saves a lot of copy-pasting with the same change over and over.
The added trigger_multiplep class is just a convenience for mappers using worldcraft, which gets confused if you add a point entity with the classname of a brush entity. So you create a new class, which then just calls the exact same code as trigger_multiple. Kinda like how monster_ogre_marksman just gives you the same entity as monster_ogre(except the classname).
Marksmen Are Different
#6066 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/28 17:54:21
Seems not to be widely known because its easy to miss, but the difference between a marksman and standard Ogre is that the marksman doesn't play his alert snfx - the Ogre roar / growl we all know and love.
But you probably already knew that ;)
Preach
#6067 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/28 18:39:06
I tried that too, but I wasn't sure how to differentiate the func from the point ents in code. Can I just do
if(self.model) {setmodel(blah);}
else {setsize(blah);}?
I tried using self.mangle as the differentiator last time, which didn't work, though I guess that was a pretty dumb idea anyway.
Are you sure it's safe to meddle with the inittrigger function?
Different Class...name
#6068 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 18:57:51
Yeah, it's because the alert code checks the classname to decide what alert sound to play, and doesn't have an extra check for monster_ogre_marksman. Other places this matters are infighting - monster_ogres will attack monster_ogre_marksman, and obituaries, which are uncredited if the marksman gets the killing blow. Most interestingly, while the monster_ogre uses OgreCheckAttack, the marksman uses the generic CheckAttck function to decide when and how to attack.
The differences between the two are that OgreCheckAttack always melee attacks if at melee range, and always fires grenades if enough time has passed since the last attack and line of sight is not blocked. CheckAttack is more probabilistic, with 20% chance per frame of a missile attack if near, and 5% per frame if mid range. On the upside for the marksman, the minimum time between attacks is shorter, randomly between 0 and 2 instead of 1 and 3 for the ogre. So at short range the expectation is the marksman fires faster, at mid range the regular ogre comes out on top, on average. Pretty much all of the marksman's advantage is gone in nightmare.
If you look at the OgreCheckAttack code you might see "chance" assigned various values depending on how far the ogre is from the target. This is all totally redundant, as the function then goes ahead and fires anyway without testing chance. Seems most likely this is leftover code from the generic function that should have been deleted, not an intended design that should have been fixed up.
One other thing I thought of about the AI here is that it shows you how the chance function is not a good way to try and make the enemy close the distance, firing occasionally. Even with a low probability like 0.05, we expect a shot every two seconds. If you're designing your own monster, and you want them to occasionally lay off the attacking to get close, a more reliable way of doing it is to set an attack_finished time.
A crude decision process would be to randomly decide with p = 0.7 say to not attack for a while and instead close in on the player. Then set attack_finished to time + 2, and the monster will just run at the player for that wrong, then decide if they need to melee or close in further, or if this time they should attack. It's useful because it allows you to make a command this frame that affects the ai for several frames in the future. Making better decision than random number generators would be the next step, like deciding to close in if the player has a RL out.
Than
#6069 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 19:20:38
Checking whether the entity has a model is a safe way to decide whether the entity is a brush model or a point entity. The original function just assumes the trigger has a model. Any existing maps will always go down the branch of the if() statement that does setmodel, so its behaviour is identical to the original in this case. This will happen for any brush model you give it, as they must have a model by definition. To the engine, a brush entity is really just a point entity sat at the origin with the model field already set. The brushes themselves are just part of the bsp file.
So it's safe for brush entities, but is it safe for point entities? Well, all brush entities have a model, but some point entities have a model too. The important thing is that you wouldn't set the model field on the new point entity triggers you create. That way you can be sure they are safe, as you have complete control over them.
Of course, the question arises, what happens if you make a point entity, and give it a model? Does the sky fall in? Well, it gets treated as a brush entity would, so it gets the size of the model you assign to it. In fact, it works perfectly well, you get a player sized trigger by setting model to progs/player.mdl.
But didn't we just say that the function works in exactly the same what as the original quake function when the model field is set? Yes, and this means that the same thing happens in regular unmodified quake! So to save brush models for things like monster trigger_teleports in normal quake levels, you can make point entity trigger_teleports, give them a "model" "progs/player.mdl" key, and then set them up as normal. Obviously less useful for other triggers where it usually matters what size they are, but still, it's a very cool hack. I might go post that in the "new tricks" thread, just discovered while I was posting this...
Point Entity Trigger_teleports
#6070 posted by negke [82.82.166.62] on 2007/05/28 20:04:18
Setting the model field might be useful for regular teleporters (would it be also possible to set it to, say, the size of a Shambler if the model is precached?), but it's not needed for monster in-teleports as the triggers also work without as long as the monsters touch them at their origin. This works with all triggers btw.
Oh Yeah
#6071 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 20:31:23
Any model will do, it's just that the player is the largest model that's always precached. Didn't know that about point sized teleports, but it's good to know.
Preach
#6072 posted by ijed [200.73.76.170] on 2007/05/28 23:22:15
Is it possible to disarm a standard Ogre so that it will never fire a grenade and always try to close the distance to the player through a hack of base progs?
From what I understand, no, but then I don't yet know anything about QC.
'fraid Not
#6073 posted by Preach [131.111.8.104] on 2007/05/28 23:32:16
I've been caught out before declaring things aren't possible by hacks, but no I don't believe this can be done without modifying the qc.
Func_plat
#6074 posted by Spirit [80.171.128.220] on 2007/05/29 09:26:05
Is it possible to move them in non 90° angles like 45° or 33°? Using Quoth.
No
#6075 posted by negke [82.82.166.62] on 2007/05/29 10:36:32
use a func_train instead
Func_rotate_train ?
#6076 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/05/29 10:40:20
.. but not so much information given on Qutoh tutorial.. I guess it is quite similar to func_rotate_dorr techniques.... Ask Kell if you have doubts..
Oops
#6077 posted by Spirit [80.171.128.220] on 2007/05/29 11:29:37
I should have added that I want it to move not on the xy-plane but "vertically diagonally".
Rotate would be an idea but I really don't want to do that kind of freaky and hard stuff. =)
Preach
#6078 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/05/29 12:57:55
thanks for the advice, but it doesn't seem to work. Regular triggers still work ok, but nothing happens when I try to load a trigger without a model. The ent is there, but the size has not been set. I'm guessing there is something about if(self.model) that makes it never return negative. Here is the code:
void() InitTrigger =
{
if (self.angles != '0 0 0') SetMovedir ();
self.solid = SOLID_TRIGGER;
if(self.model)
{
setmodel (self, self.model);
self.modelindex = 0;
self.model = "";
}
else
{
//use mangle for the offset from origin that defines the bounding box. origin is MIN, mangle is MAX
if(!self.mangle) self.mangle = '64 64 64';
if(self.mangle_x < 1) self.mangle_x = 1;
if(self.mangle_y < 1) self.mangle_y = 1;
if(self.mangle_z < 1) self.mangle_z = 1;
setsize(self, '0 0 0', self.mangle);
}
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;
};
The code in the else statement works on its own, because it used to be in a separate function used by separate point triggers that worked just fine.
Point Triggers
#6079 posted by Preach [131.111.8.103] on 2007/05/29 18:05:40
Just tested it, that code works fine. The problem might be that your editor is attaching a model to the point entity you're using. You can't check whether it had a model set using the edict command since the self.model code resets it. Instead, extract an entity file from the bsp and see if it has a model number there.
A Few Questions
#6080 posted by opt1c [24.116.187.141] on 2007/05/30 10:17:24
Hey, I'm working on my second map and I'm running into a few problems that I hope someone can help me out with. I'm using Worldcraft 3.3 with the Quake Adaptor, all the progs that came with it and everything is at default.
The lighting on this brush is messed up, I'm not sure what's going on. Here's a pic.
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172...
I'm having trouble adding powerups to my map, quad, pent, and eyes. They seem to load fine in the editor. But when i load up the map, they aren't there. I'm really stumped here.
I'm also wondering how to trigger stuff to happen when monsters die.
For example. The player walks into a room, bars drop down and block all the exits. After the player kills the mobs, i want to the bars to open. Porting monsters in after a monster dies is something I'd like to do too.
Sorry for the newbie questions, but Google didn't help much :)
Oh is there any good tutorials out there for this kind of stuff?
Thanks
Opt1c
#6081 posted by negke [82.82.179.65] on 2007/05/30 10:57:50
Are the brushes perfectly aligned? Is there anything behind that brush? Which light tool do you use?
The powerups don't appear because they touch the wall or the ceiling. You have to make sure their bounding box is some units away from any brush solids. Type "developer 1" in the console and run your map, then you'll see the corresponding warning messages.
To trigger stuff when monsters die, simply give them a target. If you want the bars to open only when all monsters are dead, let them target a trigger_counter which then opens the bars if it has been triggered the amount of times set in its 'count' field.
/slaps Myself
#6082 posted by opt1c [24.116.187.141] on 2007/05/30 11:03:16
Well i figured out why i couldn't add powerups. I just had to place it above the brush somewhat. I guess it can't be flush with the surface like all other items.
#6083 posted by opt1c [24.116.187.141] on 2007/05/30 12:07:54
Are the brushes perfectly aligned? Is there anything behind that brush? Which light tool do you use?
They look aligned in the editor. But in the game theres a small black line between some of the brushes. It's a 12 sided cylinder. I use the light tool that came with Quake Adapter. Light 1.43 by Bengt Jardrup.
Thanks for the help, I'll have to play around with all these triggers that I've never really used :).
Opt1c
#6084 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.205.76] on 2007/05/30 13:17:07
There are some good tutorials here:-
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/tuto...
Although they use the BspEditor (which I use) in these, I think they are pretty generic in terms of teaching the basics.
If you haven't settled on your editor of choice, I would recommend that you give BspEditor a try - the latest version is a superb tool.
Opt1c
#6085 posted by negke [82.82.179.65] on 2007/05/30 15:27:27
Try snapping all the brushes to the grid. The bugs may be caused by floating point vertices.
Quake Adaptor
#6086 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2007/05/30 17:53:37
wooot
this sounds serious :)
Preach
#6087 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/06/02 07:10:00
Yeah, you are right about worldcraft screwing up trigger_multiples when they are created as a point entity.
To get them to work properly you have to first create the trigger, then go into smartedit and finally add both mangle and ORIGIN values manually.
The alternative method (and my preferred option) is to create a trigger_multiple_point entity in Worldcraft and then strip the _point part from the classname in a text editor before compile.
Perhaps there is a way around this by modifying the entry for triggers in the WC FGD file, but that seems like more hassle than it's worth, and there are probably command line programs that can strip text from files that can just be added to the compile batch file or whatever.
This sucks, but I guess this type of trigger is only used in maps that are going to push the precache model limits, so it isn't really something most people will have to deal with.
Oops
#6088 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/06/02 07:17:39
Preach, I finally noticed the link to an earlier post you made (http://www.celephais.net/board/vi... and have just realised I basically said exactly what you did again. Sorry for the wasted time. I'll see if I can track down a util to strip out the _point part of "classname" "trigger_multiple_point" lines from the .map file and make a useful post shortly :)
By the way, what qcc compiler do you recommend? The size of the progs.dat that Kell sent along with the code is around 100kb smaller than the one I compiled with FrikQCC, and it won't even compile using proQCC.
Necros, if you are reading, please let me know what QC compiler you use along with any special options. I'll probably send you an email about this shortly.
Stripping Out Point
#6089 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2007/06/02 09:42:23
That's the idea for worldcraft, although there's a way you can do it in the code rather than have to edit the bsp(in the case that you're using the custom code - when using the player.mdl hack you need to go entity bashing). What you do is add a function to the code:
void() trigger_multiple_point =
{
self.classname = "trigger_multiple";
trigger_multiple();
};
This basically just creates a new entity class that's identical to trigger_multiple. It's better to do it this way rather than copy-paste the trigger_multiple code for three reasons:
1. It's quicker
2. It saves space in the progs
3. If you change the trigger_multiple code at any point, you don't need to remember to make the changes again for trigger_mutliple_point.
The reason for the line self.classname = "trigger_mutliple" follows from all that discussion about monster_ogre_marksman behaving differently to monster_ogre. In fact I was meant to mention this in that post, but got carried away with the AI changes. I don't think there's anything in standard QC that checks classnames of triggers, but best to be safe, it's easy to imagine a use for a check like that.
For compiling I use FTEqcc - http://www.fteqw.com/ - at the moment, it's got a lot of options for optimisations, plus a few advanced features like macros and a precompiler that I never use, but it's nice to know that they're there. FrikQCC is also a popular compiler, and the different sizes might just be the number of optimisations you're applying. So try out FTE and see if it works better.
Trigger_push
#6090 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.101] on 2007/06/14 16:00:09
For vanilla Quake or Quoth:
a) Is there a way to push the player "vertical-diagonally"? Like / or \.
b) Is there a way to make the trigger_push behave like the great Q3 jumppads?
If no, then someone should really make the code for this I think. :D
Spirit
#6091 posted by Orl [209.146.26.5] on 2007/06/14 17:09:31
Set an "angles" key in the trigger_push with a value of x y z, where x y z are numbers determining the angles of where the trigger pushes you.
I don't know exactly which angle is which, or if it will always work, but I have managed to create a similar diagnol push like you mentioned.
Play around with the angles a bit and see what you come up with.
Diagonal Trigger_push
#6092 posted by negke [82.82.182.10] on 2007/06/14 20:04:44
Yes, it can be done with the "angles" field like Orl said. Tip: The viewpos command (e.g. in Fitzquake and aguirRe's engines) makes it alot easier to get the proper values when you're not sure how to change the x y z ones. This is also helpful for the intermission mangle.
Q3-like jumppads work the same way. Small trigger_push on the floor with "angles" and a proper speed value.
More Quakec Help...
#6093 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/06/18 22:20:48
ok, so i've been messing around with code alot this weekend, mostly copying & combining bits from various sources & editing trivial stuff.. i'm still fairly new to it. i've been trying to come up with my own entity though, it's a 'gib fountain', which spawns a bunch of gibs when targetted, as if you'd just twatted a monster with a quad rocket 8)
at the moment i have:
void() SpawnGibs =
{
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "player/udeath.wav", 1, ATTN_NORM);
ThrowGib ("progs/gib1.mdl", self.health);
ThrowGib ("progs/gib2.mdl", self.health);
ThrowGib ("progs/gib3.mdl", self.health);
return;
}
void() misc_gibfountain =
{
self.use = SpawnGibs;
}
which works, huzzah. but i'd like to know if there's any way to make it retriggerable? at the moment it only works the once, any additional triggerings will only play the sound. is it something in the throwgib function that needs changing?
Hmmm
#6094 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2007/06/19 09:27:56
Are you using a wierd source base or something? Having just used that code and a trigger_multiple, I get a gib fountain that spawns gibs every time it is used...
It Appears..
#6095 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/06/19 23:21:50
..that i'm a bit of a tool. i had a 'throwhead' in there as well which i took out when pasting the code on here since i didn't think it'd make a difference.. apparently it does 8) cheers for checking it out though.
there's another thing that's been playing on my mind... where abouts is the code that determines how monsters behave differently on nightmare? (aside from the small bit in combat.qc that reduces pain animations) and is it possible to get a custom monster, say a boss type guy, to always behave as if skill 3 were set?
Fast Attack
#6096 posted by Preach [131.111.8.98] on 2007/06/20 00:01:26
The other ai change in nightmare is the continual attacking without delays. I don't have a copy of the quake source on me right now(new hard drive arrived!), but inside3d provides an online copy. There are two bits to this,for the first you're looking for the function SUB_AttackFinished() in subs.qc. Basically all this does is means that attack_finished is never updated in skill 3. Monsters will not consider attacking while time < self.attack_finished, hence the delay in non-nightmare skills. Both the check for attack_finished and the call of SUB_AttackFinished are found in CheckAttack (or the monster specific variants) in fight.qc.
The other important function is SUB_CheckRefire. This function is only called for some monsters, the grunt and enforcer from what I've seen. Basically it sends them right back into firing as long as the enemy is visible. The self.cnt thing makes sure they only fire twice in a row before returning to some decision making. This is because SUB_AttackFinished, which resets self.cnt, is in the ai code(see fight.qc for all that). So they'll fire once, SUB_CheckRefire makes an automatic second shot, then they'll get back to the ai decision making(which almost always makes them shoot straight away again, since it's nightmare and there's no self.attack_finished set).
To make a boss monster that behaves like nightmare, you basically want to make sure it never has attack_finished set to something greater than time. So there are crude ways to do this and nice ways to do this.
Crude way:
In the sequence of "frame functions" that actually makes the monster attack, just stick a line somewhere that does
self.attack_finished = 0;
Since attack_finished is updated in the CheckAttack function, which is called before the first frame function, you can safely change it at any time after that and it'll be obeyed.
Nice way:
Write your own custom CheckAttack function for the boss monster that either doesn't look at attack_finished before firing, or never updates it with SUB_AttackFinished. CheckAnyAttack in ai.qc is the place to add this new CheckAttack type function to, look at the shambler example to see how. This may seem like more work, but it's worth it because you get much more control over how your boss behaves, in ways other than the nightmare difficulty. You can make them that much more intellegent with what attack they choose at each point.
Muchos Gracias!
#6097 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/06/20 22:56:11
i didn't think to look in subs. writing a custom CheckAttack function sounds like an idea.. but since i haven't fully planned out this guy's attacking capabilities just yet i'll probably save that one for a later date. in the meantime pasting this bit of code into subs seems to have worked:
void(float normal) SUB_AttackFinished =
{
self.cnt = 0; // refire count for nightmare
if (skill != 3)
self.attack_finished = time + normal;
if (self.classname == "monster_bossname")
self.attack_finished = 0;
};
..as a tempfix at least. perhaps a little less crude than the other way.. just :p
Preach
#6098 posted by negke [82.82.188.16] on 2007/06/27 20:56:49
Is there a hacky way to use trigger_push entities that only work after having been triggered themselves? The standard use/touch "SUB_Null" hack doesn't seem to work, but maybe there's another method..
Probably
#6099 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/06/28 02:57:05
Not got time to test, but I suspect it would if you set movedir manually to the unit vector in the direction you want to move them. Sorry if you've tried that already...
Triggers On Lift
#6100 posted by negke [82.83.44.122] on 2007/06/30 11:43:24
http://negative.net.tc/images/fitz...
The left trigger lowers the lift (toggle door), the four small ones are fake buttons on the lift itself. Is there a way to trigger them so they'll wait until the lift has made its move (so it doesn't go down again immediately when touching the upper triggers while moving up)?
Simply triggering them restults in a crash. I couldn't think of a workaround (maybe there is none). Of course, if everything else fails, I'll resort to a regular button solution, but I wanted to try the fancy way first.
By Proxy
#6101 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/06/30 12:07:35
There's a hacky way to do it. Basically mimic the usual logic gate setup, so each of the four small triggers fires a trap_shooter at a trigger_multiple with health somewhere away from the main map. You'd need one shooter for the top pair of buttons and a different one for the lower buttons. The trigger with health targets the lift.
You then have another toggle door with the same targetname as the lift which blocks the shots appropriately. So while the lift is moving up, this door must block shots from both shooters. When the lift has reached the upper position, only the shooter linked to the top 'buttons' can see the trigger with health, and vice versa.
You can probably simplify the setup a bit by thinking about how long the trigger with health takes to reset after it takes damage. If you make this amount of time the duration of one movement of the lift, then it doesn't matter whether the shooters can see the trigger with health while the lift is in motion.
As a final nice touch, you can make the 4 mini triggers silent, and have the button sounds played by another entity, triggered with the same name as the lift. That way the feedback to the player is better, as they'll only hear trigger sounds when the button has actually worked.
Logic Gates. Of Course!
#6102 posted by negke [82.83.44.122] on 2007/06/30 14:24:57
Works perfectly, thanks.
Quoth Entities
#6103 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.214] on 2007/07/04 01:50:59
I'm checking out Quoth at the moment, and combined Necros' bunch of .def files into a unified Quake/Quoth .def for me to use (there were a lot of duplicates, and some missing entities, and no references to models, so Quest suddenly didn't draw the models anymore.) I think I got most of it right, but there are some blank spots.
The missing ones:
monster_vermis
weapon_bomb
weapon_plasmagun
weapon_hammer
I think that's all.
Could one of the Quoth guys post the .def entries for those entities? Especially the bounding box stuff.
I know your time is limited, but I could safely use Quoth for my project then.
Don't Know .defs
#6104 posted by ijed [201.222.203.75] on 2007/07/04 02:35:54
But why not copy another weapon and rename it - they're all the same apart from name.
The Vermis is
(-64 -64 -448, 64 64 256)
with the 'bulb' being in the centre of that box. It's pretty good at clipping the player with its throw attack, so give it around 256 units in each direction to throw the player; or stick it in the middle of a pit.
Also try and make sure it clips as little as possible with the floor; there's a bug where it can throw the player through walls.
Ijed
#6105 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.237] on 2007/07/04 16:30:03
Thanks :-)
HELP
#6106 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/07 15:22:16
I got the following message while loading my map:
"Error: Too many static entites"
What am I suppose to remove from the map in order to solve it ?
Thanks in advance...
Static Entities
#6107 posted by negke [82.83.1.190] on 2007/07/07 15:39:54
torches/flames, illusionaries, globes/bubbles
Neg|ke
#6108 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/07 15:42:06
Thanks, I loaded the map with aguirRe's engine, and it shown that I exceeded by the limits by 3... I just made a test removing 4 lights: I hope it will work now ;)
In anyway, thanks for the reply: you rock !
QC Fix Also
#6109 posted by Preach [86.146.20.121] on 2007/07/07 15:43:41
If you want, you can quite easily modify the qc so that torches have a spawnflag for not being static entities, if you want those three torches back, and have the dynamic entities to spare.
Btw
#6110 posted by negke [82.83.1.190] on 2007/07/07 15:46:24
Bubbles are not static, I think.
Preach
#6111 posted by negke [82.83.1.190] on 2007/07/07 15:48:05
Even simpler: use the info_notnull modelindex hack for dynamic torch models along with three independent light entities.
QC Fix
#6112 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/07 15:53:06
.. it's not my cup of tea... and maybe I will have to split the map in order to avoid such problems... I'll see...
Anyway, thanks a lot for helping ;)
Static Entities..
#6113 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/07 17:40:10
what advantage does an entity actually gain from being static?
i've had the problem before and have noticed the 'makestatic' function in qc.. thinking how simple it would be to remove it altogether. but would that cause problems further down the line?
Static Entities
#6114 posted by Preach [81.155.192.19] on 2007/07/07 20:02:21
They don't ever get sent over the network once the client receives them, which saves bandwidth and protects a little from packet overflow, although since the entities don't change it's not much good. The main advantage is that it saves you a conventional entity slot, and there are only 600 of them.
#6115 posted by ijed [201.222.202.203] on 2007/07/08 02:53:48
Well, the whole thing is academic, since these limits were put in place for PC's made ten years ago.
It's why I prefer to work in AguirRe's engines.
Ha
#6116 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.198] on 2007/07/08 10:56:35
Windows was put in place for PCs made 10 years ago :-D
It's not good if OS-specific code is introduced into originally multiplatform software, or if projects (including their dependencies) depend on specific OSs. Windows development environments seem to have a tendency to automatically introduce Windows dependencies in the code...
I don't think that is an academic question at all because you can't assume that everybody on the globe uses Windows in the year 2007.
Platform independency == User friendliness!
Hm
#6117 posted by ijed [201.222.205.150] on 2007/07/08 17:15:40
Fair enough, I suppose its far from academic if you can't run the stuff yourself.
I've always used windows (Mac a few times) mainly because it's what everyone else has ie. few compatability problems.
#6118 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.12] on 2007/07/08 17:45:06
"everybody else has (Windows)"
see? that's the problem. Once someone else is using Linux, you've got a huge compatibility problem.
It's not a law of nature that the Linux user accepts your proprietary .doc files for example. Unix has been around longer than Windows, so I could very well tell Windows users to "read the f* manpage."
I'm really not trying to start an argument, just pointing out that that ("everybody uses Windows") is subjective perception. That was a practical argument in 1998 in most of the USA and western Europe, but it isn't anymore.
I'm not "nobody."
Just the same you could say "everybody has 3D hardware and a recent computer, so we should get rid of software rendering" or "everybody has DSL so we should make Quake demos AVI format."
Same thing; I could imagine a dozen cases where someone has good reasons for not meeting those criteria.
:-) The world is bigger you know.
Ok!
#6119 posted by ijed [201.222.205.150] on 2007/07/08 18:36:05
I was agreeing - it's a misconception - 'everyone'
#6120 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/07/08 19:06:25
since these limits were put in place for PC's made ten years ago.
i had a question about that, actually.
iD had self imposed limits on maps (like total texture size), so why did they also have engine limits? if they had made quake to have a max of 5 billion edicts, but only used max 256, would it have mattered? is there some actual programming reason behind it, or was it an arbitrary choice?
Linux Sux
#6121 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/07/08 19:52:15
if you use linux you are a pederast
There's A Reason:
#6122 posted by BlackDog [220.235.146.200] on 2007/07/08 21:25:57
Small number ranges require less memory. In particular, integers in the range 0..256 will fit in C's unsigned char type, which takes up less memory than short/int/long integer types (on most machines).
If you only have a few megabytes in which to fit everything, cramming numbers into these tiny ranges becomes crucial. For another example, see Quake's wobbly animations - you can clearly see vertices snapping from one value to the next.
Necros
#6123 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/09 04:53:30
iD had self imposed limits on maps (like total texture size), so why did they also have engine limits? if they had made quake to have a max of 5 billion edicts, but only used max 256, would it have mattered? is there some actual programming reason behind it, or was it an arbitrary choice?
Mainly becuase it's a lot easier to write data handling code if you can assume a fixed limit than if you have to dynamically allocate memory for everything. A lot of stuff in quake is allocated in fixed buffers.
Other limits are imposed by the network protocol, for example 256 models means that you can use a single byte to index them.
And then, some limits are a combination. For example, MAX_EDICTS was 600 in standard quake, and this was becuase all edicts were in a static-sized buffer in memory. Edicts actually take a lot of memory per edict, and quake was designed to run in 8mb of RAM, so this is understandable. Also, looking at the size of the standard id maps, 600 is plenty. But when I added the max_edicts variable in fitzquake, I still had to set a hard limit of 8192, becuase the network protocol imposed its own restrictions on this number (which I can't recall at the moment, but I think has to do with the other bits being used for something else.)
Thanks!
#6124 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/07/09 22:44:52
Skip Problems
#6125 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/10 10:09:42
So, i've been using tyrann's skip tool recently, and it's worked fine, and suddenly in the most recent versions of my map (after merging in a couple new rooms from another .map) it stopped working correctly. Now what it does is remove hundreds of random non-skip surfaces from all over the level.
Has anyone else had similar problems?
Metlslime
#6126 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/10 11:20:31
Yes, it doesn't work very well on big maps actually... I experimented the same fucking behaviour on SRC when I tried to add glasses...
Skip
#6127 posted by Bal [195.101.1.129] on 2007/07/10 11:32:16
I've had the same thing, Tyrann always said it really did that after a while. =\
... And A While...
#6128 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/10 11:38:00
... is not top priority actually... ;P
Skip Problems: Happy Ending...
#6129 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/11 12:32:15
I sat down tonight and wrote a new skip removal tool from scratch, which seems to work correctly with my problem map. Only thing it doesn't do right now is remove skip faces from brush entities (did the Tyrann's tool do that?)
Still got to give props to Tyrann for the proof of concept though; I wouldn't have been able to code this so fast if I didn't have a basic idea of how his tool worked.
Brush Entities
#6130 posted by Preach [81.152.234.252] on 2007/07/11 12:48:29
The Tyrann skip tool certainly removed faces from brush entities. I can't say for sure if it never caused problems, but I've certainly made a few maps and encountered no problems with this aspect of it. It's very good news that we've got a tool that works for the world model though.
Yes, It Does
#6131 posted by negke [82.82.182.177] on 2007/07/11 13:05:38
and it causes a HOM in GL engines. And I have plans for this feature.
That's
#6132 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.94] on 2007/07/11 16:43:21
and it causes a HOM in GL engines. And I have plans for this feature.
what makes neg|ke the awesome-est. I would never think of HOM as a feature.
Okay...
#6133 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/11 20:26:48
well, i'll see about adding brush entity support tonight, and generally clean it up so other people can use it.
Oh, and I still have to test it in various engines, since the basis of the tool is a hack that works only because of the way quake renders bsp models.
#6134 posted by Lunaran [71.150.248.152] on 2007/07/11 20:28:56
he's a hom-osexual
Yeah
#6135 posted by negke [82.83.21.202] on 2007/07/12 00:40:21
Going to beat off in front of those mirrors over and over again.
NegIke...
#6136 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/12 00:43:10
and it causes a HOM in GL engines. And I have plans for this feature.
Will these plans be ruined if I play with gl_clear 1?
METL!
#6137 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/07/12 06:45:22
PLEASE add support for liquid brush types! I need that for my basemap which is having a few problems with Tyrann's tool, but I can't have glass+water if I don't use a skip removal tool.
Ah...
#6138 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/12 06:50:47
right, i forgot about that. So we want removal of *skip as well as skip, basically?
Hmm...
#6139 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/12 08:20:18
actually I guess i'd need:
*waterskip
*slimeskip
*lavaskip
*skip
for all three contents types, plus *skip when you don't want the water ambient sound.
Metlslime
#6140 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/12 09:06:36
To make ambient sounds disappear ingame, just use aguirRe's vis tool: there are -noambient<lava/water/slime/sky... option that allow to remove them, check http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea... .. It has been added since rvis 2.30 ;)
JPL:
#6141 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/12 09:19:49
i meant removing ambient sound for certain brushfaces, not the entire map.
Metl
#6142 posted by negke [82.83.60.187] on 2007/07/12 19:14:03
Not necessarily. Since I use gl_clear myself, I will keep that in mind - some trigger_command trickery will probably do the job. Furthermore, software engines might be driven out by clever use of the limits.
Skip Progress...
#6143 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/07/12 19:59:07
I added entity support and liquid support last night.
Metl
#6144 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/07/13 02:03:14
you are a god.
Does it have options so that only skip on entities may be removed? I have a feeling it was the removal of skip from world brushes that was causing the problem with Tyrann's tool, so it might be sensible to at least have an option to disable it if it starts to cause problems with your tool too.
Well...
#6145 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/13 03:20:32
no, but i'd rather try to actually fix the bug if we discover that my tool is buggy.
Of course if it turns out there's a bug I just can't figure out, adding that feature would be an option.
Than
#6146 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/13 04:06:52
what is the method you settled on using to make glass?
Different Glass Solution
#6147 posted by ijed [201.222.202.250] on 2007/07/13 04:17:10
I'm using glass at the moment under a Warp Version of Nehahara made by AguirRe - I failed to do this for warp through oversight.
I was reading through the documentation again and realised alpha could still be applied to any entity - func_wall glass. I haven't made it shootable yet but thats just a case of a snfx and trigger_once. And you can't spawn glass gibs because that's from the progs.
Wrappers
#6148 posted by Preach [81.152.232.130] on 2007/07/13 04:27:06
I've got a few random thoughts for coding things in a simpler way, using wrappers on some of the built in functions, and before I forget them I figured I'd share. Putting it in mapping help because it doesn't belong anywhere else really.
The idea of putting wrappers comes from frikbot, at least that's where I saw it first. Entities that aren't players can't receive messages like centerprints. But instead of put exceptions for the bot in every weapon pickup, ammo pickup, etc, all the mod does is rename the function centerprint to centerprint_true, then make centerprint a function to check if the target entity is a bot, and send the message to centerprint_true if it's not. So the credit for the idea goes to Frikac.
The functions I'd put a wrapper on first are the precache functions, something like:
string(string s) precache_model_true = #20;
string(string s) precache_model =
{
if(framecount)
return "";
return precache_model_true(s);
}
This very simple wrapper doesn't run the precache if you've past the initial window, frame 0. In one fell swoop you've protected yourself from the game ending error that occurs when you precache things late.
This sounds like it's not much use in itself, because if the model isn't precached you're still gonna have problems if you try to setmodel, and you surely shouldn't be writing code that tries to.
Suppose though, that you were trying to spawn a key at some point in the game(that feature is done btw). It would be really nice to use the regular key spawn function item_key1, as it already does all the stuff you want it to. Plus if you ever update the code for the normal item_key1, you'd probably want to have the same changes applied to your later spawned key, so copy-pasting the code isn't ideal. But if you try to re-use the spawn code, the precaches end the game with a console error.
The first way to fix this would be to just add exceptions
if(framecount == 0)
precache_model ("progs/keymed.mdl");
to each instance of a precache, but the wrapper saves you a lot of time and effort. It does add an extra if statement to each precache you call, but that's a negligible effect, as it's only an extra load in the pre-game stages, and isn't called all that often even then. So I think it's a winner really.
So that's not precaching when you don't need to, but we can also go the other way. There's no need to take the risk of setting a model that isn't precached during frame 0, because we can precache it then. Rename setmodel to setmodel_true, and then add
void(entity e, string m) setmodel =
{
if(framecount == 0)
precache_model(m);
setmodel_true(e,m);
};
below precache_model. This allows you to write more compact spawn functions, you can setmodel directly without bothering to precache. Of course, you still need to precache any other models that might be needed in the course of the game, and any sounds, it can't do all the work.
The really useful part of this one comes from brush entities. Once you've made this change, you can add a point entity with classname, for instance, func_wall. Then give it a model field of "maps/shelf.bsp". Then you instantly get the ability to load the external model shelf.bsp into your map. This would allow you to create prefab func_walls that are used many times in your map, but only use up one precache. You could do the same thing by adding a precache_model(self.model) line to the func_wall code, but this way it works for all your brush entities, for free!
The saving of a few precache slots or lines of code may not seem that helpful on it's own, you might never need such external bsps. There's an idea I've been playing around with that would suddenly make this a much more useful tool, but I'll have to save it for another day(once I've coded/tested it). Hope there was something useful in this long, rambling post, have fun now!
Sounds
#6149 posted by ijed [201.222.202.250] on 2007/07/13 05:00:25
Almost like you're thinking of a form of mapobjects there, Preach.
Rotating Brushes
#6150 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/13 06:35:12
is there a way to do it that isn't weird and complex (like the original rotating stuff in the first expansion pack)?
Inertia
#6151 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2007/07/13 07:02:42
I explained it in the basepack thread (or perhaps this one) already, but basically it involves using a liquid brush as the visible glass with an invisible (by using skip) func_wall for the collision detection. Using skip you can remove surfaces of any water brushes near the glass and create the impression that the water is butting up against the water.
The main problem is that it only works on gl engines and requires the user to set wateralpha, but using Quoth you can set it automatically when the map loads so it isn't a problem for my basepack map.
Another problem is that the water and glass will share the same level of transparency, but using lighting and fog intelligently around windows can hide this problem well.
Alternatively you can require Nehahara or whatever, but I'd rather try and support all GL engines and software if possible. The map actually loads fine in software, but you can't see through the glass. The only software engine that supports transparent water that I know of is tochrisquake. I am not sure if Bengt has added it to his SW engine or not.
Than
#6152 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/13 08:32:08
ok thanks :D
Wrappers And Rotation
#6153 posted by Preach [81.152.232.130] on 2007/07/13 12:18:52
So, the cunning application of the external bsp files is this: rotating entities. Once you have the two wrappers described in the last post set up, add the following entity to misc.qc
void() func_illusionary_rotate =
{
setmodel(self, self.model);
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NOCLIP;
}
Now you can easily set up a rotating entity in your map. First thing is to make your rotating model. Start a new map, and make the object you want to rotate. The important thing to do is to make the origin of this new map the axis about which your object will rotate. Set up some lights around it, to match the area of map - you don't need to be too precise about this, since it's rotating you can't sensibly have one half shadowed and one half light. Just give it about the right levels. Then compile it and leave it in the maps directory.
Then you just add a point entity to your actual map, with classname func_illusionary_rotate, avelocity set to how you want it to rotate and model to the path to the bsp model you just made. Position it so the point entity is on the axis you want to rotate about. Nice and simple, and it avoids the difficulty aligning the textures and setting up those origin brushes or whatever hipnotic had you do.
Obviously this is a simple example, but you can use it as a base for the more complex rotating things. For instance it's not a solid entity, but quake can't do solids rotating without an engine fix, so anything you'd do would be some kind of hack. I'm sure it's possible to adapt the hipnotic hacks to this method. Hopefully soon I'll have one of my own hacks worked out, and I'll post that too.
Monster Count Issue On Reload....
#6154 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/15 09:44:58
Copied from Base Pack thread: On my current project (I used Quoth) I have a weird effect when (quick)saving, and reloading the map. The monster count (at the end of the level) doesn't correspond to any of the skillset.. Any idea about this issue ??
Is it something that is Quoth related, or simply a Quake bug ? Or could it come from my map ?
Very Strange
#6155 posted by Preach [86.148.9.86] on 2007/07/15 13:47:19
The total monster count is saved directly in the savegame file, you can see it by opening it as a text file. It might be that somehow the server and client parts of the game are becoming desynchronized, you have to do a bit of work to update the client if the total number of monsters has changed. It's possible that somewhere the client is getting a (correct) update to the number of monsters, but the server isn't. Then when you save the game, you're going by the server's record of things, so you run into problems.
Anyway, I'd have to see the map and the save file first, it's not a issue known to me before now.
This Is
#6156 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.116] on 2007/07/15 15:04:20
actually one of the most common bugs in many mods; monsters are being spawned, resurrected or killed without being accounted properly (via killed_monsters and total_monsters vars plus updating the client).
It can be pretty tricky to track down these issues, but in all progs that I've fixed, the killcount should (hopefully) be correct.
#6157 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/07/15 15:29:10
does DecodeLevelParms() get called when you load a save game? it might be messing up with left over data in parm11 and parm12...
Monster Count
#6158 posted by JPL [90.41.20.99] on 2007/07/15 21:54:53
DecodeLevelParms(): Err, how can check its use ?
As far as I understood, it comes from the Quoth mod, so how is it possible nobody saw it before ?
#6159 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/07/16 01:00:03
nm, i checked and it can't be because of decodelevelparms.
Qc Help
#6160 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/16 04:38:53
As I'm developping a new Quake1 monster I want to give it some crossed over functions. So I altered the demon fiend in a kind of tribolitus creature, gave it a new skin and now I'm working on a qc for it.
As far things went right (had 15 vertice meshes in 81 frames) and now I see the creature everywhere...but nevermind.
I wrote a qc, which is a mix of the demon fiend and the lightning bold of the shambler. I'm almost done, but the last vexing problem is that by imitating the shambler's blast the qc compiler keeps bumping on
shambler.qc:194:Castlightning redeclared
The creature.qc compiles right now but shammy not.
Is there a way to relay this message or is the Castlightning an unique statement in the qc. I mean can it only be used once?
Defining Functions
#6161 posted by lurker [68.158.2.166] on 2007/07/16 07:48:20
If you copied and pasted the Castlightning code from shambler.qc with no modifications, try adding
void CastLightning();
to the very beginning of your new monster's .qc file. Then, delete the copied CastLightning code from newmonster.qc .
If you copied Castlightning but modified it, give it a new name like Castnewlightning in your new monster's .qc .
Thanks!
#6162 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/16 17:54:09
I knew modding with the Q1.qc can lead to a story without end. After changing the one line, others seem to jump up.
I had to change the fight.qc also and of course now other unknown punctuations appear.
I didn't change CastLightning in the monster.qc and changing it to CastNewLightning seems to help. Now it comes to a broad stroke, only the behaviour of the
function Monster_JumpTouch was not defined
breaks up again.
So I'm plotting further again.
Thanks for your advice, lurker!
Function Declaration
#6163 posted by Preach [81.153.26.101] on 2007/07/16 19:05:07
What the problem is:
The compiler will only let you call functions that it already knows about, functions that you've already written earlier on in the code. If you want to call a function which you haven't defined yet, then you must do something called prototyping. A prototype is where you just tell the compiler the name of the function, warning it in advance that you are going to define it.
What to do:
The error you're getting tells you that you need to create a prototype of the function Monster_JumpTouch. The prototype looks like this:
void() Monster_JumpTouch;
Add that line at the top of your qc file(or anywhere above where you first use the function) and the error should go away.
Well...
#6164 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/17 01:40:48
thanks for your attention, preach.
to keep it simple, the monster.qc is identic to the demon.qc , except the lightning beam addition.
This means, as in the demon.qc it starts with the
void()Monster_JumpTouch;
statement, and further on in the jump function
ai_face();
self.touch = Monster_JumpTouch;
makevectors (self.angles);
self.origin_z = self.origin_z + 1;
self.velocity = v_forward * 600 + '0 0 250';
if (self.flags & FL_ONGROUND)
self.flags = self.flags - FL_ONGROUND;
so I can't find the reason why the compiler bumps.
Hmm
#6165 posted by Preach [81.153.26.199] on 2007/07/17 02:00:09
That bit looks in order, so the problem might be elsewhere. Check that Monster_JumpTouch isn't defined in both monster.qc and demon.qc, even though the error message doesn't sound quite right. Also, what are you using for compiling? If you use something recent like FTEQCC(http://www.fteqw.com/) then you get more informative error messages, as well as warnings that can help you pinpoint errors.
Hey...
#6166 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/17 04:31:19
thanks for the link, preach! Suddenly I've got a progs.dat Only the messages run so fast I have to turn back to dos to watch them. I'm testing now how far things run.
I have two different prototyping for them, so I used Demon_JumpTouch and Monster_JumpTouch.
But as I copied them, their statements are the same.
I use the old proqcc and fastqcc as compilers.
They give a clear overvieuw of what's going on, but tend grimm for giving a progs.dat when errors appear.
GUI
#6167 posted by Preach [217.42.221.30] on 2007/07/17 12:30:35
There is a GUI version which allows you to read the output of the compiler in a window, and gives you a full windows interface for selecting optimisations etc. You can nab it from http://downloads.sourceforge.net/f...
Yes!
#6168 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/17 16:57:00
That's better. Although now I get 81 warnings from all kind of errors I suppose I don't have to take need of.
Now I'm so far I have two monsters, the demon and the gnerk seperated in one level. I had a rude job to model the head of the thing, because one can't just cut them off from the base part in Qmle.
The strange error occurs that the gnerk stands alright, but at leap moment it freezes for 3 seconds and then starts jumping again. Also the ligtning beam doesn't appear, although it doesn't give a message error.
For your convienent I have the two altered qc files from the fresh Q1.qc downloadable.
Maybe you could be so kind to take a look at them. I can't think of a line that's wrong.
The Gnerk_JumpTouch keeps bumping.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/gnerk...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/FIGHT...
Names
#6169 posted by Preach [217.42.221.30] on 2007/07/17 20:47:47
Don't worry too much about the warnings, they are in fact mostly from the original ID code, only two from your own code, and 1 of them is harmless. The other one tells us what the problem is:
gnerk.qc:52: warning: function Gnerk_JumpTouch was not defined
You may be thinking that you did define such a function, a copy of the Demon_JumpTouch function. However, you renamed it Demon_GnerkTouch rather than Gnerk_JumpTouch. Fix that and your monster should work, somewhat. It won't freeze up when jumping in any case.
The problem you'll next encounter is that your monster isn't ever going to use lightning. This is a much knottier problem, discussed in the next post.
#6170 posted by Trinca [89.180.89.144] on 2007/07/17 21:14:55
Preach the lurker map of vertical event crash in the 2 new progs.dat in old quoth works nicely
New Precaches For Quoth2?
#6171 posted by lurker [68.217.126.221] on 2007/07/17 21:49:21
Trinca/Preach: My map was pushing precache limits in id progs and Quoth progs due to func_illusionary (and func_wall?) abuse. It originally crashed Quoth but worked in id progs due to a couple of extra Quoth precaches. If more were added since the official Quoth release, that would do it.
I'm not sure it's a big deal, however, since the map uses no Quoth features and works with id progs.dat .
#6172 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/17 21:53:20
I'm still looking to much to the outcome of fastqcc. If i see errors I want to devoid them.
I had overcome the freezing of the gnerk by changing line 110:
void() gnerk_jump10 =[ $leap10, gnerk_jump1] {
self.nextthink = time + 3;
// if three seconds pass, assume gnerk is stuck and jump again
};
into
void() gnerk_jump10 =[ $leap10, gnerk_jump11] {
//self.nextthink = time + 3;
// if three seconds pass, assume gnerk is stuck and jump again
};
so by changing the gnerk_jump1 to gnerk_jump11 and adding two slashes for the self.think the error faded.
I now tried your way by changing Gnerk_JumpTouch into Demon_GnerkTouch, which also works. But it still gives that nasty error in fastqcc. I don't mind, but as I worked on the NewBoss earlier I found myself only content by getting a clean outcome.
And yes, why doesn't it struck its beam?
Seems that Shambler doesn't give pass to his magic laserbeam so easily!
Arrgh
#6173 posted by Preach [217.42.221.30] on 2007/07/18 00:48:00
I lost a really long, nicely formatted post about the various systems that govern ai decisions, then the computer crashed. Here we go again:
It's quite hard to follow how the various functions that govern the decisions the monsters make. The functions involved for any given monster are spread out over 3 qc files, so here's a summary of how a monster goes from running to attacking. It starts in the running animation frame functions, which call ai_run().
ai_run(float dist) (ai.qc)
The first thing this function does is check if the current enemy is dead, and find another target if so. Once satisfied with the enemy, the function checks self.attack_state. If it is set to AS_MISSILE the function runs ai_run_missile, and if it is AI_MELEE it runs ai_run_melee. Otherwise the function runs CheckAnyAttack to see if the monster should attack yet, and if that returns false the monster runs forward the distance specified by dist.
CheckAnyAttack() (ai.qc)
This function asks the question "is this a good moment for the monster to start attacking the player?". If it is not then the function returns FALSE. If it is, then the function returns TRUE, but also starts off the attack sequence, in a way that varies from monster to monster. If you look at the function you will find lots of lines like:
if (self.classname == "monster_shambler")
return ShamCheckAttack ();
So it's actually another function that determines whether an attack occurs. If a monster is not on this list then it uses CheckAttack to decide.
CheckAttack (fight.qc)
This generic function checks if the player is in line of sight, and then if they are in melee range executes self.th_melee. If the monster does not melee attack, then there is a chance it will enact a missile attack from self.th_missile. The exact probability of an attack depends on the range. Otherwise the function returns FALSE, so the monster will go all the way back to ai_run and run forwards.
ShamCheckAttack() (fight.qc)
It's interesting to note that ShamCheckAttack has a slightly different approach to CheckAttack. Although the decision process of whether to attack or not is similar, if it decides to missile attack, it just sets self.attack_state = AS_MISSILE. Then the next time the monster runs ai_run(probably the time of it's nextthink), it will run ai_run_missile.
ai_run_missile() (ai.qc)
This calls self.th_missile only if the monster is facing the player, making it slightly different to the CheckAttack method.
So at the moment the Gnerk is using CheckAttack, and so leaps at the player before it is facing the right way(DemonCheckAttack uses the AS_MISSILE method). The first thing to change would be to add a line
if (self.classname == "monster_gnerk")
return GnerkCheckAttack ();
to the function CheckAnyAttack. That way you use the GnerkCheckAttack function you added. You have to prototype it before CheckAnyAttack.
There are a number of ways you could add the lightning attack. One would be to add lines like
chance = random();
if(chance < 0.1)
{
gnerk_magic1();
return TRUE;
}
just after the lines
if (enemy_range == RANGE_FAR)
return FALSE;
of GnerkCheckAttack. This directly calls the attack. The problem is that it misses out on the AS_MISSILE bit, so the gnerk will attack before it's facing the player. Another way to do it would be to set
self.th_missile = Gnerk_ChooseAttack;
in the monsters spawn function. Then write a function Gnerk_ChooseAttack which randomly selects either gnerk_jump1() or gnerk_magic1(). You could even make it select the attack based on effectiveness, but that would be contrary to the tradition and style of Quake...
Oh... My Odds And Maths
#6174 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/18 05:36:00
My god, Preach, if I had the knowledge you had I probably made my own Quake mod of Hellboy. I'm only joking of course, although the idea won't leave me alone. But this little creature took already 825 verticemeshes of my time, so.. let's get on with it.
First let me thank you for your thouroughly explination of the source code. I'm beginning to understand it has more to do with comparisions than with logical copying. And me maths are a wreckage, but right.
I'm glad someone took the time to make an odd fool like me to understand how things work and I'm really gratefull for that. This qc can't stand a wrong aphostrophe and that hurts.
I hope it wasn't my code that crashed your computer.
As far I can understand I tried your first attempt on the GnerkCheck Attack, and I hope it was in the fight.qc and not in the ia.qc(?)
Changing the line gave me a few errors as the compiler doesn't want the gnerk_magic1. I have reposted the fight.qc so you can see.
It has gone deep in the night as I rearranged new gnerk sounds from the hellboy dvd, and my nerves started rumbling the same.
But the change from Gnerk_jumpTouch to Demon_GnerkTouch was a good hint! So far things run great, even in fastqcc. Hope my language also...
More Prototyping
#6175 posted by Preach [86.150.194.176] on 2007/07/18 12:41:37
You also need to prototype gnerk_magic1 before you use it in GnerkCheckAttack. Once you do that it should work fine. The usual thing to do when you get that error is check whether the function is defined before or after in the code. If it's defined after then you need to prototype(or move the order of the functions around, but not a good idea when they start in different files). If it's supposed to be defined before, then check for a typo - remember function names are case sensitive too!
Great Preach!
#6176 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/19 02:39:01
Good Old Quake has got an new monster coming!!!
Tricerops Tribolites combines demonfiend attack with shammy's lightning bold.
Fox must have been mad to make this attempt, but succeeded and becomes madfox again!
Please Help Me
#6177 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/22 20:11:12
So my problem is HexenII related, but I thought that is a general problem too.
The first is that I need years to vis my map (several hours on my celeron 700)
The next thing is that the water is not vised. Usually it is vised on default. (=now it looks like quake1 with r_novis 0 and r_wateralpha <0)
So I checked the log-files of the compiling tools and have only one error in the bsp.log: "r_cutnode new portal was clipped away"
Does anybody How do I fix that?
HexenII
#6178 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.137] on 2007/07/22 20:40:36
I know nothing about, but if:
- it was a Q1 map
- fullvis was slow
- by "not vised" water you mean transparent
then I'd say thet you've a leak that the compiler isn't telling you about, a very common error in old build tools.
If the map format is reasonably similar to Q1, you might be able to try one of my qbsps, just to see if it finds a leak.
Otherwise it's probably time to pull out the old leak hunting tricks, e.g. put big solid blocks over parts of the map and rebuild until you've nailed the leak.
Thanks Good Idea
#6179 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/22 20:44:43
I guess the hexen bsp-format is very similar to quake1
I will try it
I Got This
#6180 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/22 20:48:48
TreeQBSP v2.04 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Input file: ./maps/mymap127.map
Output file: ./maps/mymap127.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** ERROR 03: Line 17: Invalid brush plane format
Elapsed time : 0:00
Peak memory used : 1.4 MB
!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!...
Build failed, because it did not create the (+BSP) file: C:\appl\spiele\hexenII\
UhexenII\tmpQuArK\.\maps\mymap127....
Build failed, because it did not create the (+PRT) file: C:\appl\spiele\hexenII\
UhexenII\tmpQuArK\.\maps\mymap127....
Or If
#6181 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.137] on 2007/07/22 20:52:29
my qbsps can't read the format, you may be able to export the map from the editor (e.g. QuArK) to Q1 format and then rebuild.
Or if you can find more recent tools that can build HexenII bsps, maybe they'll work better.
You can also verify that your map leaks by noclipping outside, if you can see the textured outside of the map, it leaks in hull 0.
The Error Message
#6182 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.137] on 2007/07/22 20:58:13
indicates that the brush face format is incompatible with Q1. Since I see you're using QuArK, try exporting the map to Q1 format if possible.
If you can't proceed, send me the zipped map and I'll see if I can figure out what's going on. I don't have HexenII though, so I can't check it out in-game, but I've QuArK.
No It Does Not Leak
#6183 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/22 21:12:53
I can't see the textures outside the map.
Maybe it has something to do with:
a) It's a big outdoor map
b) It's the map I started mapping so almost everything is off grid
More Than Likely
#6184 posted by ijed [201.222.203.105] on 2007/07/22 21:44:38
Its the grid; It's a bastard to fix as well because the errors can be all over the place.
I'd advise adopting a preferred grid size in future for all walls / floors and sticking to it, only going smaller for details or different mapping techniques - curves, terrain etc.
I don't know QuArK much but I'm assuming theres a vertex manipulator - that'll allow you to snap everything to grid, although it'll be a gruelling task.
Another option would be to cut out a piece of the map and copy paste it into a new file, correct it and make sure its not leaking and then c+p the next section until you've got all the important features. Fairly primitive way of doing it but you'll be sure to have a very clean mapfile.
You Can Check
#6185 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.6] on 2007/07/22 22:09:21
the mymap127.prt file, again if it's similar to Q1 then there are two numbers on the first two lines of the file. The first is #leafs and the 2nd is #portals.
If they're high (>10000), then you've probably too much solid detail and need to simplify or turn into func_walls or similar.
Having a messy outdoor map is a good start to a major vis headache ...
I Guess I Have Got To
#6186 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/23 19:38:34
tidy up the mess end compile it later and also with other tools. Apart from the off grid there are a lot of microbrushes too
(There is a lt of work to do)
I might ask later if that does not fix the problem
Thanks a lot for advice :)
Trigger_relay Sounds
#6187 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/24 18:36:05
How to avoid trigger_relay to emit a sound ? I have 4 choices in QuArK (i.e 0: none, 1: secret, 2:beep beep, 3: large switch). I selected the "none" option, but I still have a "beep beep" like sound ingame... Is it the normal behaviour, or am I missing something ?
#6188 posted by Vigil [91.152.72.143] on 2007/07/24 18:45:06
Don't put anything in the "message" field. Right?
Not Sure
#6189 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/07/24 19:29:06
But 0 should work - different editor. Maybe try editing the .map direct with notepad.
Another question, similar;
How do I stop a door_secret playing its touch sound after it's opened? Using in the case of ones that remain open.
If all else fails I can just embed it in a wall recess or clip brushes.
Trigger_relay Sounds
#6190 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/25 21:43:54
I checked the .map file, and the sound filed is set to "0"... pretty weird.. any idea where it could come from ?
Does It Have A Message Field?
#6191 posted by negke [82.82.190.22] on 2007/07/25 22:40:10
Neg|ke
#6192 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/26 08:04:11
Yes, it has a message field... is it the cause of the "issue" ?
Neg|ke
#6193 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/26 08:05:08
Oh, and one of them doesn't have, but the beep beep sound is here BTW
Triggers Beep
#6194 posted by negke [82.82.163.182] on 2007/07/26 11:32:20
when they have a message field, unless it's completely empty ("" no space).
If yours also beep without, check the trigger/button firing them.
Neg|ke
#6195 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/07/26 13:58:12
OK, I have a single trigger_realy that causes the issue: it is generating a beep while triggering a sound, and it is not really the effect I wanted... I have this one to check particularly: thanks for the info ;)
BTW, as I already launched a fullvis run, is it possible to hack the BSP to remove the message field, or is it mandatory that I recompile all the stuff from scratch in order to obtain the wanted effect ?
JPL
#6196 posted by negke [82.82.163.182] on 2007/07/26 17:23:51
Set the trigger's sound field to an invalid value then, like 4.
You can easily recompile the map with -onlyents if you only edited entity flags. Remember to run light -onlyents too if there are switchable light styles in the map.
Neg|ke
#6197 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/07/26 18:02:32
I'll try it... and even if it doesn't "work" as I want, I can launch again my fullvis, as it was running only since 12 hours... so not a big waste of time...
Anyway, thanks !
AguirRe
#6198 posted by negke [82.82.167.193] on 2007/07/27 12:27:14
Sorry for flogging a dead horse:
Would it be too much work to add support for detail brushes to Qbsp? After all, it has been done before by Alexander Malmberg - the source code is available too http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/fi...
Are there obvious reasons why this would be unfavorable, technical issues or the like?
Func'ing architecture does work, but it has disadvantages too. Detail brushes (not splitting geometry) might be better in certain situations.
I Know About
#6199 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.24] on 2007/07/27 15:08:39
those versions, they're introducing new file formats (e.g. map and prt) and AFAIK require modifications of all tools (possibly engines too).
I don't like messing with the original formats; I want to keep the stuff open-ended so you always can use whatever step that works best for you.
There are already "Q1" maps/mods that require specific tools and/or engines to work.
Detail Brushes...
#6200 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/07/27 21:08:45
...could not be compatible with the stock quake engines, as far as I know.
One thing that could work is having func_walls or func_illusionaries that cast shadows on the world and on themselves. I guess you'd have to have a flag or key that tells light.exe which bmodels you want this feature for. Then, you'd need to run each light trace through both the world BSP and every shadow-caster entity's BSP, and see if it collides on any of them before reaching it's target.
Obviously this would only make sense for entities that don't move.
Light Issues...
#6201 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/28 15:15:05
recently i've noticed a few problems when lighting rocky/terrain areas:
http://www2.jameson-h.com/fr/ftp/r...
http://www2.jameson-h.com/fr/ftp/r...
using tyrlite v0.92...
anyone have any tips on how to avoid these? is it just a case of dodgy brushwork or are there other light utils that fix it?
Do You Use QuArK?
#6202 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 15:58:34
Had something similar when I did not add -etp to the Qbsp.exe
Rj
#6203 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.172] on 2007/07/28 16:12:34
Try updating to latest TyrLite, 0.92 is really old now. If it is what rudl suggests (i.e. you're using the QuArK ETP feature), then a more recent TyrLite will fix that.
If you want to try my Light (and still have the ETP issue), make sure to add -etp to the Light cmd line (not qbsp! ;).
If it isn't an ETP issue, then using 4x4 oversampling might help. If all else fail, it's probably a brush alignment issue and might be fixed by manipulating the brushes near the spot.
Sure Light
#6204 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 17:49:05
not qbsp!!!
Cheers...
#6205 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/28 17:58:30
figured i'd give your light util a try. the same result seems to occur (i use worldcraft, so doubt it's ETP related) but i've decided i need to completely rebuild that rock section anyway because the shadowing looks weird in too many places.. it could use neatening up too!
on a related note, i've been playing around with your util & quite like the "second sunlight" feature (as well as the -soft option). i have a suggestion though, i'm not sure how plausible this is, but is it technically possible to add some form of falloff to sunlight, similar to that of attenuation 1 lights? i ask as i've been using attenuation 1 lights as a replacement for sunlight recently (since until now i could only get sunlight in one direction) and have grown to like the effect they give, where the light starts to gradually fade out towards the ground (with a very subtle ratio). if this were possible with sunlight/second sunlight then it would make things an awful lot easier!
#6206 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 18:55:42
It is still possible that its the -etp because when you open the quark .map file with worldcraft it does not delete the echanced texturing
#6207 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 18:57:30
->aquirRe's convmap tool
Well..
#6208 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/28 19:10:48
i've never even heard of enhanced texturing. based on that is there much chance of my map having used it?
Quark
#6209 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 19:15:16
Quark always uses it when you have very complex structures (detailed oudoor-brush)
I always use -etp even if I don't have this problem
ETP
#6210 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 19:17:29
Sorry I wrote enchancd texturing in my last post
ETP=Enchancd Texture Positioning
#6211 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 19:23:14
Are those faces completely black or very dark
if they are very dark it can also be caused by the fast light option (is always activated when QuickGo)
#6212 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/07/28 19:26:12
If they are not completely dark I'm pretty sure that it is caused by fastlight (it is not very accurate and does not calculate the detailed areas)
Rj
#6213 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.70] on 2007/07/28 22:12:46
You can't have attenuated sunlight, it would kind of defeat its purpose ... You can however change the way sunlight (and other lights) affects angled surfaces via the anglesense features.
Also, make sure to use sunlight3 instead of sunlight2, it greatly improves details in the sunshadow. See readme for lots of details.
ETP is just a name for any method of specifying texture positioning that couldn't be done in the classic Quake map format. For Q1 I only know of QuArK ETP (its default map format) and Hammer's Valve 220 (recommended for QuArK, too). With those formats, you can freely rotate textures in all three planes.
If you're using WC 1.6 or earlier there's no ETP. The bad shadows are then probably caused by complex or bad brushwork and they might be reduced by using -soft -extra4 in my Light.
However, it's rather common to have a few bad spots in terrain-like brushwork. I'd guess it's a limitation of the bsp format/tools and/or accuracy of float values.
Defeat Its Purpose?
#6214 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/28 23:03:23
aww..
i was more thinking of technical limitations.. i'd disagree that it had no purpose. i made a little demo map & took two screenshots to compare:
http://www2.jameson-h.com/fr/ftp/r...
the first is with your sunlight & nothing else; the second is with attenuated lights & no sunlight info. whilst the shadows enhance the first screenshot, i think the second provides a much nicer & more realistic feel with the fadeoff. it probably shouldn't replace normal sunlight altogether but i think it might be something worth looking into at least..
btw, i turned -fast off and it seems to have reduced it a bit a few bits remain but they aren't so noticeable. i'll start doing extra compiles nearer completion.
and it's WC1.6 i use, oldskool bi-planar texturing all the way ;) (although admittedly the lack of freedom can be a pain in the arse sometimes)
thanks both of you for the suggestions!
I Didn't Say
#6215 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.18] on 2007/07/28 23:54:18
that attenuated lights have no purpose ;) I meant that there's no such thing as attenuated sunlight; the distance attenuation at any practical surface difference near the Earth is next to nil.
Since there already are attenuated lights in the light tools, the sole purpose of sunlight is that it's non-attenuated and with parallel rays. Before, mappers used to add many pointlights or "delay 3" (infinite) lights along the skyline to mimic real sunlight.
And while I may be biased here, I think the first shot is the most realistic one, although the 2nd is also interesting. In any case I definitely recommend adding subtle ambient pointlights to outdoor areas to reduce the somewhat uniform sunlight. Maybe some hint of a cloud effect ...
Btw, if you use WC together with TreeQBSP, I'd suggest adding the -oldaxis option to handle 45 degree textured surfaces correctly.
Well..
#6216 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/29 00:04:08
what you say about sunlight in reality is very true, but if the sunlight in question isn't direct (ie, it's a cloudy day) and you have a fairly enclosed chasm environment (like my maps tend to be quite often :p ) then the further down you go, the less sky the rock is exposed to. maybe it could just be called 'skylight' as opposed to sunlight.. or something. i dunno. i guess i should just figure out a way to combine both methods & stop moaning about it :p
and thanks for the oldaxis tip, i've noticed quake renders diagonals differently to WC..
Also Worth Adding..
#6217 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/07/29 00:11:44
if you look back in the screenshots thread at the 'numen' preview i posted up, you can see the skybox i'm using and can hopefully see why i don't consider sunlight appropriate, since the sun is pretty low & the majority of the sky is a flat orange shade.. infact i've already got the sunlight at a low z-angle (-15ish) in the first map since it really makes an impact in the 2nd shot
El Cubric
#6218 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/29 02:40:52
I worked some time with qmle and imported dxf files. Is there a way to foresee the excact shape of the model?
I mean, let's say I want a cube of 64x64x64 as new imported stand model in qmle.
Point is that when I import a dxf file it is imported in qmle as a random shape. I can never tell the excact measures. I could use the transform tool, but in this way it won't become the cube I need.
My solution seemed to created a 64x64x64map, compiled it to bsp and try bsp2mdl and try to load it in qmle.
But the dxf files I draw from it change shape when I import them to my CadCam programm.
Actually
#6219 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/29 05:40:13
it was easier than I thought as the qmle grid measures are 32.
Aguire
#6220 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/29 10:05:12
Since your tools compile the half life .map format into a q1 bsp, could they also just spit out a q1 .map from an hl .map?
Fixed Grid Size
#6221 posted by Preach [86.148.15.133] on 2007/07/29 12:51:37
The thing about the quake model format is that it stores all of the coordinates of the verties as single bytes, in the range 0-255. The model then has an offset vector and a scale vector in floating point values. You may find if you save and reload your model in QMe then it will have developed inaccuracies. The grid in QMe works seperately to this rounding off, so it usually just makes things worse.
Of course, if you only have one frame, then the upper and lower boundaries of the model will always be correct, as they are stored as '0 0 0' and '255 255 255' as bytes, meaning one is the offset vector, and one is the offset plus the scale vector.
The easiest way of thinking of this in my opinion is that quake creates a grid with 256 gridlines in each direction, then scales it so that it exactly contains the model in all the frames. The vertices that are furthest out on each direction sit on the edge of the grid, and everything else is snapped to it.
The problems will arise once you make the model larger than that 64x64x64 box in some frames, in any direction. Then the scale and offset vectors get recalculated, and the box vertices get snapped to a new grid. One way to get round this is have a frame somewhere in the model larger than all the other frames, with two vertices placed very carefully. For instance, if you have one vertex at '-128 -128 -128' and one at '127 127 127', and nothing outside those ranges in any frame, then your grid will be in multiples of 1 quake unit. If this isn't a clear explanation, take a look at:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
which shows it in practice.
The thing is, adding this weird sized frame is just tricking the tools into making the scale and offset into being correct. At some point, I plan to modify my export script for blender so that you can specify offset and scale manually, rather than have it calculated automatically. Of course, if you make the scale too small to accomodate the model then outlying vertices will get squashed, it'll need some thought.
Inertia
#6222 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.209] on 2007/07/29 13:04:52
No, they don't export map files. You should be able to convert using QuArK, though. I guess another way is to just use Hammer/WC3.3 for continued editing of a Valve 220 map.
I also heard something that one version of GtkRadiant could read Valve 220 maps and then save into Q2/Q3. This could then be edited directly in Gtk (possibly also exported to Q1) or further converted to Q1 by e.g. my ConvMap.
I Should Add
#6223 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.209] on 2007/07/29 13:09:34
that converting a Valve 220 map into plain Q1 might result in screwed up textures as some ETP stuff can't be represented properly.
Models
#6224 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/07/29 22:47:04
Thanks Preach, for your explanation!
I just started at good luck, making a model base with one square stand position of 64x64x64. Then I imported it into Qme and took the output mdl to quark47. A quick vieuw in Quake, with a transposed e1m3 file and a cube 64x64x64, translated the stand position.
In this way I could manage to recalculate the measures until it became a regular fitting cube form. To my surprise it were the correct double 32 measures of Qme.
Another point appears with the texture. I took a_floor1 because of it clear square outfit. But as I had to diminish the texture to 79% for the model, they seem somehow flattened in game in opposite of the mapbox textures.
I think I have to live with it, because I see no other way. It looks as if the model, hidden in the map boxes, will reveal itselves in some way. Also models always have a lightened shape, as map boxes receive their lightning from the light.exe themselves.
Aguirre
#6225 posted by inertia [24.164.73.173] on 2007/07/30 02:37:24
I've been snooping around and I think the map exporting functionality has been removed from gtkr. I might be wrong though..
Func_rotate_object
#6226 posted by golden_boy [217.251.63.79] on 2007/08/04 15:50:24
Ok, I'm trying to make a ceiling fan that rotates in the normal way (around the vertical axis.)
Problem: No matter what I do, it rotates around the horizontal axis. It looks very stupid.
It's the first time I do this... I'm a bit unsure how to proceed.
I have my rotate_object, the fan. I have an info_rotate directly below it, on the axis of rotation. Below that is my func_rotate_entity. Rotation is working, so the targets etc. are OK.
1) Do the info_rotate and func_rotate_entity need to be on the _center_ of rotation, or is it enough to put them anywhere on the _axis_ of rotation?
2) For rotation around the vertical axis (Z axis I assume), what does my rotate key need to look like? I tried 0,0,90 and 0 0 90 but neither seems to be working. I also tried 0 90 0 but nothing changed...
I need a bit of help here. czg's tutorial isn't very specific and I think it contains errors.
Urgh
#6227 posted by golden_boy [217.251.63.79] on 2007/08/04 16:16:43
Figured it out. I'm officially stupid. The vertical axis is the Y axis. ^^ I seem to have missed some geometry lessons.
Someone should make a clearer tutorial, or Kell could just put an example map into Quoth. I might make one and donate it.
:)
I Don't Know
#6228 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.38] on 2007/08/04 16:39:01
of any specifics regarding rotating stuff, but AFAIK the vertical axis is the Z-axis. Maybe your problem is related to the sometimes strange key formats; yaw/pitch/roll etc.
#6229 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/08/04 18:40:38
Rotatings are a cunt to set up - czg's tutorial is fairly clear, but the idiotic way that the rotatings were coded makes it a process of trial and error to implement, since I believe that it does use both angles and pitch / yaw / roll.
I'd guess that this hacky code got past when the Hipnotic project leader was off with flu.
#6230 posted by golden_boy [217.251.63.180] on 2007/08/04 19:17:09
I found out by trial and error that the Y axis is vertical. The Z axis is "depth" and thus one of the horizontal axis.
X and Z are horizontal, Y is vertical. In math, X goes left-right, Y goes bottom-top. Z is "depth" in three dimensional space.
The "mechanical" part was pretty simple actually. The rotating object itself is turned into, surprise, a rotate_object. It rotates around a corresponding info_rotate. Third we have the corresponding func_ entity, like func_rotate_entity and func_rotate_door. This point entity has all the information, mainly the "rotate" key. It holds the combined direction and speed information. "rotate" "0 45 0" gave me what I needed: Turn 45 degrees per second, around the Y axis.
Luckily I didn't have to set up collision detection. Player has no RL, so he shouldn't be able to reach the fan. :) Laziness!
:)
Don't Mix Up
#6231 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/08/04 21:02:42
No Z is usually vertical
In quake for instance, z is vertical
IN Math it is relativ, because you can rotate the coordinate system.
but always the same is:
when you look through the z-axis in the positive way then, x is right and y is left
when you look through the x-axis in the positive way then, y is right and z is left
when you look through the y-axis in the positive way then, z is right and x is left
Had my final exams focused on geometry ;)
Hmm
#6232 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.87] on 2007/08/04 23:07:34
Then how do you explain that "rotate" (0 45 0) makes it turn around the vertical axis?
The key's format is (x y z) so in translation, that means "turn 45 degrees per second around the Y axis."
So either Y is vertical in Quake, or the func_rotate_* is buggy. Or the whole map is rotated and I didn't notice. :)
Anyway, it works :)
Heh
#6233 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/08/05 00:06:48
3dsmax is the most common 3d tool for games because its cheaper - alot of people prefer maya (forget shitty softimage) but it does the same thing; changing z for y. And has alot of other problems for exportation.
Ballache.
Key Format
#6234 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.19] on 2007/08/05 00:07:53
Again, I don't know any specifics about func_rotates, but the key format pitch/yaw/roll is one of the used ones and then your example means 0 degrees vertical pitch, 45 degrees counter-clockwise around the z-axis and 0 degrees roll around that vector (possibly not used).
And you can look in any Q1 editor to verify that z-axis is indeed the vertical axis (i.e. up/down from the floor).
#6235 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.87] on 2007/08/05 00:34:43
ijed: Ballache is the right word :)
AguirRe: That is so far over my head, I might have to re-read that when I'm less tired to grasp what it means. It sounds reasonable though.
An Easy
#6236 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.19] on 2007/08/05 00:45:27
test is to load a map in FitzQuake or any of my engines and use the console command viewpos.
Then you'll get the xyz coordinates of your current map position and then three extra values that specifies how an intermission entity key should be specified to look in the same direction as you're currently looking. Move the view and check again to see how the values change.
This is one of the formats used when specifying a vector. Another is the more simple spot/sunlight key of TyrLite or my Light; pitch/yaw. See the readmes for more details on this.
Viewpos
#6237 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/08/05 01:00:05
Didn't know that - should help alot; the intermissions in warp were shit, I just added a roll value to make them more interesting.
AguirRe
#6238 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.87] on 2007/08/05 01:15:56
I realize you're probably right. I will run some tests on this.
It would explain a few things.
So Now I Understand It:
#6239 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/08/05 11:19:33
The "rotate" 0,0,0
does not mean x,y,z
It is not a kartesian coordinate system it is a Spherical one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spher...
Spherical And Greeks
#6240 posted by Preach [217.44.84.161] on 2007/08/05 12:42:09
It's basically like a spherical system, but with one important difference. In the wikipedia article the three coordinates are (&#961;, &#966;, &#952;), and &#961; is the radius, or distance from the origin. Quake angle components are more like (&#966;, &#952;, &#951;), where &#966; and &#952; are as before. &#951; is not the distance from the origin - instead it is the "roll" component. The easiest way to think about this is if &#966; is moving the mouse up and down and &#952; is moving the mouse left to right, then &#951; is rotating your monitor about. Of course, you don't usually do that for a viewpoint, but for a model it might make sense to rotate it on that axis.
Arrgh, Not Greeks
#6241 posted by Preach [217.44.84.161] on 2007/08/05 12:48:00
Clearly func doesn't like greek characters, lets do that again with letters
It's basically like a spherical system, but with one important difference. In the wikipedia article the three coordinates are (rho, phi, theta), and rho is the radius, or distance from the origin. Quake angle components are more like (phi, theta, eta), where phi and theta are as before. eta is not the distance from the origin - instead it is the "roll" component.
The easiest way to think about this is if phi is moving the mouse up and down and theta is moving the mouse left to right, then eta is rotating your monitor about. Of course, you don't usually do that for a viewpoint(unless you're an alien crawling on the ceiling or something), but for a model it might make sense to rotate it on that axis.
To Make
#6242 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.216] on 2007/08/05 12:54:36
it even more interesting, the pitch in the intermission mangle key is reversed to the sunmangle pitch. In intermission, a negative pitch is pointing upwards, while the same in sunmangle points downwards.
I don't remember now if the yaw is different as well in the two variants.
It wasn't meant to be easy ...
More On Q1 Entities
#6243 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.216] on 2007/08/05 13:09:00
can be found here: http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy....
The info_intermission seems correctly described, but I don't know about the rotate stuff. It might help to check it out, though.
Rotate
#6244 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.232] on 2007/08/05 13:30:59
"Now for a func_rotate_entity, you must give it a "rotate" key and set its value to three integers,
"0 -90 0" for example, which will make it roatate clockwise along the Z axis at 90 degrees/second. You
can set it to rotate around all the axis too, and to make it rotate the other way, just add/remove a -."
It's Only Wrong If...
#6245 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.232] on 2007/08/05 13:37:14
... you say "x,y,z". If you say "x,z,y", it's fine.
Again, from czg's tutorial, "...and 'angles' '0 90 -180' will make a door that rotates 90 degrees counterclockwise on the Z axis, and 180 degrees clockwise on the Y axis. Of course set it to whatever suits your needs."
#6246 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.162] on 2007/08/05 16:22:12
Yup. I thought it meant "x,y z axis."
My head hurts. I guess I'm more the trial-and-error type. I have a good idea how to make it behave like I want now.
Sadly a rotate_entity seems not to get lit by dynamic lights. Makes it look a bit funny. Oh well, just don't give the player rockets then... but then you have deathmatch, where people are going to want rockets... right now, my cool fan looks stupid when hit by a dynamic light (flashlight.) i.e. nothing happens... I'll just tell player to not ever point it upwards... :/
would a func_movewall (or whatever the collison detection thing was) fix the dynamic light issue?
No Dynamic Lighting
#6247 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/08/05 16:46:05
The movewall works pretty crappy as well - and feels messy to use since you're making a bunch of clip brushes linked to the rotatable.
Having said that I doubt anyone will notice that the lighting is off if you set it up right.
The way I'd do it is to put a pointlight with delay 4 in the centre of the fan with a very low light factor, just higher than your minlight - assuming the fan isn't in a vertical shaft with sunlight coming down.
Delay 4 changes the attenuation of the light to be a local minlight - a delay of 2 could work as well since it increases the range of the light whilst making if fade more softly as well.
I'm not sure about this but you could also move the model away from the point entities and put it in it own little room (somewhere the player will never get to to) and light it there. Then, in theory, it will snap back to its target point (info_rotate) on map startup . . . I have no idea if that will work - maybe its asking too much (ie, a bone).
Just a case of messing with it until it works - even more trial and error ;)
_
#6248 posted by ijed [201.222.206.128] on 2007/08/05 16:47:12
Forgot to mention that you'll also need compilers that can handle specialised lighting - AguirRe's for example.
Haha
#6249 posted by golden_boy [217.251.62.163] on 2007/08/05 20:48:30
"assuming it isn't in a vertical shaft with sunlight coming down"
muahahah :)of course it is. I sent you the beta btw so you can see for yourself.
The idea with a separate room for the model might be worth checking out. otherwise I'll just very slightly light it from below, although that is illogical because sunlight comes from above. The underside _should_ be dark, but hey, if it's for the greater good...
^^ play the beta! Uuh yeah! :)
YEAH
#6250 posted by golden_boy [217.251.62.163] on 2007/08/05 20:50:36
Building the radar tower tonight! Mapping is fun!!! Blowing up things is fun!
Thanks world!!! Thanks Quoth!!!
:-D
Quakes Not Dead!
#6251 posted by mikerz343 [124.168.83.194] on 2007/08/06 11:24:23
Hi i have a fairly noob question but it can be difficult to find tutorials for modding old games with so many sequels...
how can i import md1 models into worldcraft 1.6 so i can place them in a map?
Short Answer -
#6252 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/06 17:28:20
You can't, at least not directly. You can do a hack that allows you to spawn .mdl via an info notnull - but it doesn't work too well since the model is offset from its origin and cannot be rotated. This means its annoying to place and also needs geometry outside the world so that it doesn't cause a leak, if in an even remotely enclosed space since the offset is pretty big.
QuArK can load .mdls into a map but I don't know if it can convert them to world geometry - probably not.
Some mods have included a way to spawn models / mapobjects into the game - Nehahra had such an entity, which gave us the monster head on spikes in the realm of the ancients as well as alot of other stuff.
A very hacy way to do it is to replace a static model entity that the game knows exists with the model that you want - which is how I did it in warp, replacing the Shub teleport train model with a sleeping soldier (one of the death poses). But that means modifying your root directory; making a mod folder.
Another way to do it would be to open qme, export the model to .max (or whatever 3d software you can get your hands on) then export again as some kind of prefab for, probably, QuArK again.
"hqbsp"
#6253 posted by Pectabyte [64.142.49.5] on 2007/08/08 20:05:51
I built a map with Radiant 1.5, in Quake 1 mode, in hopes of compiling it in the original quake but every time I try to build I get "hqbsp" not found. Any ideas where I could get it? I've googled it but no go. Any ideas?
Pectabyte
#6254 posted by golden_boy [217.251.63.215] on 2007/08/10 16:12:39
I'd guess that hqbsp is a map compiler.
Find the batch file that is used for compiling Q1 maps. It should have a line like "hqbsp *.map", followed by "vis" and "light" entries.
Load that file in a text editor and correct those entries so they call the compiling tools that you have.
It might just be a path error; in that case, find out where the hqbsp.exe is located and put the complete path in that batch file. Like "C:\blah\blah\hqbsp.exe" instead of "hqbsp.exe."
Getting Into Quake Mapping
#6255 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.146.89] on 2007/08/17 08:05:39
I've been mapping for Doom2 for the last year and managed to get quite good at it, but ended up getting frustrated by limitations in the engine.
Quake1 is the only other game I would want to map for... but as usual, the thing that always puts me off it is just the cumbersome nature of moving around brushes.
I mean, there are 3 windows, and four brushes per empty room. If you want to do something as simple as resize the room then you have an awful lots of clicking to do and make sure the brushes are not overlapping.
Doombuilder was an amazing editor in that you really did not have to keep clicking different icons to do a function, and in fact you could do a large amount of the editing in 3d mode anyway.
I don't know if it's just that the editor I use is crap or if I'm missing out a lot of shortcuts or if this is just the way it is for editing more 3d games like Quake... but could someone give tips that will speed up the constant resizing a brush in 10 different windows?
What is the best editor for Q1? I'm using Worldcraft 3.3 for now. One thing that annoys me is that if I want to zoom in or out I can't just do it with the mouse wheel, but I have to actually click on fucking zoom icon, then do it, then click back on the selection icon.
Kamikaze
#6256 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/08/17 08:54:10
I think you'll find most people here either use Radiant, or Worldcraft. That doesn't mean they're the best but they're obviously good enough for most people to keep using, release a lot of good maps, and not switch to a different editor. There are a few others that also have a few followers each, like Quark, and BSP.
But no matter what editor you use, you will also probably have to accept the different way of building compared to doom, and after some time getting use to it, it won't bother you as much.
There are a lot of very nice things about the quake style of building with brushes. The rooms are harder to adjust, true, but all the stuff you put INTO rooms (crates, light fixtures, etc) are much easier to move around, copy and paste, and delete.
WC..
#6257 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2007/08/17 09:23:18
there are indeed a number of hidden shortcuts..
i'm not familiar with WC 3.3, but in 1.6 the D & C keys will zoom in and out on whichever window the cursor is hovering over. you can also move around easier by holding the spacebar whilst clicking & dragging (with either mouse button if in the 3d window)
a few others i discovered by playing around include the *extremely* useful cloning function, where you hold shift + drag a brush, entity or just about any object to create a duplicate. there's also holding shift whilst selecting a face in texture application mode, which will allow you to select the whole brush, and obviously, ctrl + clicking to select multiple faces (or multiple objects in general)
vertex manipulation can make resizing things easier too. say, if you select all the wall brushes in your room, go into VM mode, then select all the vertices at the top edge and drag them all upwards, you'll have a raised ceiling without messing up the proportion of any doorways etc
like i say.. i haven't given 3.3 a try so not sure if those shortcuts work, but give them a try
Bsp Editor
#6258 posted by Ankh [192.100.130.7] on 2007/08/17 14:27:01
I think that BSP Editor is very interesting. http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/
I was trying to learn it during last few days. You can do many things in the 3D window and the mouse buttons have many usefull functions. You can customize any shortcut you want anyway using the cfg files.
Check out the tutorials on the page if you want to see what is possible.
Rj
#6259 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.146.89] on 2007/08/17 18:26:38
those shortcuts helped a lot... plus I also discovered the WASD movement in 3d mode much like Doombuilder.
I'm just gonna stick with Worldcraft for now... although I haven't yet checked if it builds Quake maps properly yet...
Sometimes It Does ;)
#6260 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/17 20:45:35
Gtkr
#6261 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/08/17 23:52:21
mouse wheel = zoom
right click = pan
spacebar = clone selected brush(s)
click and dragging is context sensitive (outside a brush stretches, inside a brush moves)
ctrl+click+drag = skew
v = toggle vertex selection on and off
e = edge selection toggle
etc etc. it all comes down to rememebering shortcuts. doom's map building didn't need them because they were much simpler maps. you'll see-- once you start to get used to shortcuts, it'll be second nature to you.
i've since remapped most of 3ds max to gtkr defaults because it's just that ingrained. ¬_¬
I Wondered
#6262 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/18 01:25:10
is there really a prog called bsp2mdl?
I'm searching this because I need to relight a model I've made. I don't know if there are other solutions. For now I'm working on a new quake1 model what seems to be somewhat too bright.
I'm checking all my archive disks, so far I didn't found anything, also qpub doesn't seem to give an answer. Now I'm at the point thinking I had the prog on a crashed disk. Or does it only excist in my imagination?
... Or Better
#6263 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/18 02:02:25
what is a good method to make a new model change its brightness?
Is this just a skino.bmp adjustment in Wally?
Or is there a prog that could fix this?
Madfox:
#6264 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/08/18 02:08:24
can't you just open the mdl in qME?
Brightness of a model is based on the skin, and of course the engine will brighten/darken a model based on where it is located in a level.
Metlsime
#6265 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/18 05:49:13
I created the model in am2000 and altered it in QMLE. I experienced in Fitzquake it is just too bright, in Aguires engine it is just too hazy. Point is it isn't a usual model.
It's a reversion of a textured cube, but as it being a model it appends different lightment then the usual textures.
So I can change the skino.bmp but then it will look different in all excisting engines. I'll send you the file, it's easier to understand.
Therefore my question of the bsp2model prog.
I thought it could be used to relight the model's brightness.
Madfox:
#6266 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/08/18 09:01:56
well... you can edit the texture simply by using qME -- qME can export pcx files, you can edit the pcx file, then import the pcx file.
Also, be careful not to have any accidental fullbright pixels in your texture, that will make it look bad in fitzquake/dosquake/winquake becuase they support the fullbright colors of the quake palette.
Also, fitzquake, dosquake, and winquake will look brighter than in glquake and aquirre's engine, becuase fitzquake/dosquake/winquake have overbright lighting which glquake and many glquake ports lack.
I don't know what causes the haziness, could you describe it? Or post screenshots to compare hazy vs. non-hazy?
Madfox:
#6267 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/08/18 09:22:08
Oh... I just got your email and looked at it myself.
Your texture is fine, the problem is the lighting in your level. Since fitzquake can go up to 200% brightness, you see the actual differences between the walls and the monster. Maybe the model is 170% bright, but the ground lightmaps are only 160% bright. In glquake these would both be flattened down to 100% and therefore match perfectly.
So the solution is, you need to carefully adjust the lighting. You want the lighting on the wall to match the model. The model gets its light from the floor under its feet. So, make sure the floor under the feet matches the walls. If the model is too dark, add light on the floor under its feet. If the walls are too dark, add lights to brighten the walls but not the floor.
Metlslime
#6268 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/19 21:56:59
thanks for your answer.
I had a hard job making the model fit excactly.
The alignment with the walls didn't fit in pixels,everytime it made a pixel more or less, so I had to change it to 0.25
I'm not really sure if it is excact on ground as models stand +1 on ground. Maybe it is only a case of lightning.
But I still wonder, where is the prog bsp2mdl?
Madfox:
#6269 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/08/20 01:55:32
Just so it's clear, bsp2mdl won't help you with this problem. (assuming it exists at all)
Alright
#6270 posted by MadFox [84.26.138.139] on 2007/08/20 03:25:58
I thought I heard of it in case of giving excisting bsp_models new lightning.
Thanks anyway!
D3DRM.DLL
#6271 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/20 19:24:32
I started working on a Quake map a couple of years ago but stopped after a few weeks. Now I tried to continue working on it but every time I try to load the map it crashes. The problem is with a file named "D3DRM.DLL" in the Worldcraft directory. I'm able to load the map if I remove this file but then it won't show the 3D Textured view. So - what to do?
Water Brush
#6272 posted by Pectabyte [64.142.49.5] on 2007/08/20 21:02:08
I read a tutorial that said if you put a ! in front of your textures name that when applied to a brush it would make that brush act as water however it doesn't. Currently my texture is names !water.mip Any ideas as to what I map be doing wrong?
Pectabyte:
#6273 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/08/20 21:05:46
which game? In quake water texture names need to start with an asterisk (for example *water) -- Not sure about half-life.
Please Help
#6274 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/08/21 21:24:42
Problem:
I compiled a map and when I look in a certain area it's like there is a leak in the map.
When I go into this certain area I can't see the area where I looked in this area.
Very interesing is:
QuArK exports the .qkm as .map and compiles the .map (if I understand it correctly) ->got the strange problem
I opened the exported .map compiled it again (I don't reaklly know why I did that) and it worked. and also had a shorter vis-time
I got in both cases no error messages
Rudl
#6275 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.137] on 2007/08/21 21:50:09
Your problem description is a bit vague, but I'd guess you're talking about a HOM (Hall Of Mirror) effect inside the map. Check out my ToolTips document (section Portal Problems) for more info on this.
By re-opening the exported map and rebuilding, you can very easily get this effect, due to re-ordering of brushes and float value inconsistencies.
My compilers try to reduce this problem by sorting the brush faces deterministically.
Cylinders...
#6276 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/24 00:10:23
How to flip a vertical cylinder brush horizontally? The "flip objects" thing doesn't work.
Water Brush2
#6277 posted by Pectabyte [64.142.49.5] on 2007/08/24 00:25:33
"which game? In quake water texture names need to start with an asterisk (for example *water) -- Not sure about half-life."
Wally texturing program said a ! is needed before the name for water. Is it in deed a * instead? What is the symbol needed for transparency for glass?
Pectabyte:
#6278 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/08/24 01:40:07
Assuming you're asking about quake, there is no transparency feature on textures in quake.
There are some custom engines that support transparency per entity, using the "alpha" field -- but this doesn't do any per-pixel masking, it just sets the transparency over the whole entity. You could use this for glass, if you made the glass into a func_wall entity. But this is not a standard feature of quake nor supported by most engines.
Not sure why wally suggested !, but since wally supports multiple games, maybe this is intended for a different game?
Pectabyte:
#6279 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/08/24 01:45:11
Also check out this general faq on quake textures:
http://www.celephais.net/stuff/tex...
Mikko...
#6280 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/08/24 04:40:52
...what game? What editor? Try rotate 90 degrees rather than flip.
WC
#6281 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/24 17:12:38
I'm using Worldcraft and Quake is the game. There is no rotate function.
Alpha-stuff
#6282 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/08/24 17:39:58
Works with Quoth or Nehahra+
AguirRe's glquake or Qrack or Joequake or DP
Alpha
#6283 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/24 20:40:12
Can be set in any mod and to any entity, but only the engines you point out do anything with it.
Yep, it can be set on monsters as well, maybe for a Doom1 effect; like the semi-invisible Pinky demons.
Mikko: click on the brush / group you want to rotate a second time after selecting it, you'll see the selection handles change to circles; grab one and you can rotate it, holding ctrl to rotate by fixed 12.5 (?) degrees. Shear is also done in the same way - the selection handles move to the centres instead of the corners.
Keys
#6284 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/25 18:51:16
Thanks! Why didn't I notice this before (the map being almost done and everything)?
Anywayz, I have a problem with keys and doors that require keys. The map I'm working on is hi-tech themed. This means I would rather NOT have rune keys but I don't see any way to change the keys into hi-tech versions. Also, when I run to a door that requires a key I don't have I hear this "clank" you're supposed to hear in medieval maps but not in hi-tech maps. How to change this? The entity properties window didn't have anything that could have been of use.
Mikko...
#6285 posted by generic [71.1.69.179] on 2007/08/25 20:18:01
in Worldcraft, Map > Map properties... > Ambience sets the key style.
Check the Flag that corresponds with the required key for your door in order to hear the "clank" sound.
Mikko
#6286 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/08/25 20:21:01
did you tried to change worldtype field type to base in worldspawn (i.e value = 2)? It should allow you to have Hi-Tech keys, and a kind of buzzing sounds when doors refuses to open, etc.. Try that and recompile the map.. ;)
Sounds
#6287 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/25 22:22:03
Great - thanks!
Here's another one: Where to get that cool wind sound that plays whenever you enter an outdoor area? Couldn't see it under ambient sounds.
Mikko
#6288 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/08/25 22:45:02
It is an ambient sound indeed: use ambient_suck_wind point entity where you need to have a wind sound...
It's Not
#6289 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/25 22:54:08
Nope - that wind effect is different (used in Wind Tunnels, for example). The one I'm talking about can be found pretty much from every outdoor area in any hi-tech map. For example, in E1M1 right after you exit the first elevator.
Mikko
#6290 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/08/25 23:41:19
Oh, this effect comes from the sky, not from an entity. To obtain the same effect, you have to build an open area, with a sky... and maybe you need at least to vis the map to obtain a correct rendering but I'm not sure... Good luck :)
?
#6291 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/08/26 05:01:06
can be found pretty much from every outdoor area in any hi-tech map
i'm a little confused... the wind sound can be heard in (i think) *every* map since it comes from skybrushes.
but it does indeed need to be vised to hear it. vis sets which areas can 'hear' the sky sound, so when you're in those areas, it seems to come from everywhere and not a specific point.
Thanks Again...
#6292 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/26 16:48:32
Yeah, it seems that all the leaks around the map caused the vising process to fail. I had known of these leaks but I thougth there were just a few of them and that I could take care of them later. So yeah, I spent two hours hunting and fixing them (around 10-15 of them around the map).
Live and learn.
A Map Will Not Vis With *any* Leaks
#6293 posted by Lunaran [76.210.68.240] on 2007/08/26 20:37:49
You Can Always
#6294 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.65] on 2007/08/26 20:54:15
force qbsp to produce a prt file or even use bsp2prt, but it won't exactly reduce fullvis time or improve r_speeds ...
With old versions of TreeQBSP, you could even get a huge and invalid prt file even if the map leaked. Then fullvis would go on for ages and either crash or produce completely invalid PVS data. E.g. sm36 had this issue in 2002.
Slow
#6295 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/26 22:10:55
I wonder why the game won't show all the leaks in one go - typing "pointfile" only shows one leak at a time. This is why it took so long (two hours) to remove all the leaks.
But anywayz - another question: How to change ALL textures of one tile (say, "floor01") into another (say, "floor02") so that you don't have to change them one by one?
Mikko...
#6296 posted by generic [71.1.69.104] on 2007/08/26 22:22:20
Use the Replace button on the Texture Browser. Also, read your Worldcraft documentation ;)
#6297 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2007/08/26 22:28:50
Every WC user should at least once read through the documentation supplied with the program. There are many usefull tools and shortcuts described in there. Many of them are pretty hard to find when just experimenting with editor.
Read the manual. In this case it will make your life a lot easier :)
Meh
#6298 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/08/27 00:06:04
Yeah, I've been scanning through some old websites searching for good tutorials. They're usually way better than built-in guides. And I guess I forgot all about the built-in tutorial so...
But anywayz - any suggestions for late evening lighting? I noticed the sky texture itself doesn't emit light like in Quake 3 engine games so everything has to be done manually. Should I use many light entities with little volume or one or two entities with more volume? The point would be, of course, to make it look so that the sky emits the light - not some tiny light sources on the ground.
Use AguirRe's Light Tool...
#6299 posted by generic [71.1.69.104] on 2007/08/27 02:49:00
With the -sunlight and -sunlight2 parameters for good-looking outdoor lighting ;)
Question
#6300 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/08/27 17:18:49
why sunlight 2? Is it for when you want to set your map on a planet with multiple suns, or is there a more cunning use of it?
Also, are there any light compilers that support radiosity aside from that old one riot made? (where the hell can I find that anyway?)
Riot's Q1rad
#6301 posted by lurker [68.158.35.90] on 2007/08/27 18:12:54
is at http://icculus.org/~riot/
I don't know of any others for Quake.
-sunlight2
#6302 posted by generic [98.192.129.54] on 2007/08/27 18:56:56
Helps make the shadows cast by -sunlight not as harsh (i.e. not pure black).
That Right
#6303 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.254] on 2007/08/27 20:31:04
it's pretty much a blend of varied angles to get a softer shadowing effect.
Don't Forget...
#6304 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.232] on 2007/08/27 21:33:17
...sun_mangle, especially if you're using a skybox that shows the sun.
Is There A Simple Way To Calculate The Sunmangle?
#6305 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/08/27 22:20:59
I tried viewpos facing directly away from the skybox sun but it's wrong - seems I'm missing some simple change between the coordinates of viewpos and sunmangle.
The idea is to have the light look as if its coming from the correct planar angle and altitude.
As I've Mentioned
#6306 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.34] on 2007/08/28 02:13:58
before; there are several formats for specifying a vector in Quake. Viewpos only works for intermission format. For spotlight and sun mangles in Light you use the simpler yaw pitch format.
-sunlight2/3 (the latter is recommended) can be considered "outdoor minlight".
See readme for more details on these subjects and more.
Texture Alignment
#6307 posted by Drew [198.53.34.237] on 2007/08/28 02:24:10
in WC some of the textures seem alligned, once I fire the map up in quake that is no longer the case. I'm pretty sure theres a command that can be entered to remedy this but I can't remember... any help?
Drew, Try This
#6308 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2007/08/28 05:02:14
either -oldaxis or -alternateaxis may work depending on your compiler. Check the docs.
Will Do
#6309 posted by ijed [201.222.201.96] on 2007/08/28 05:06:32
Yet again ;)
But What About Colored Radiosity?
#6310 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2007/08/28 14:47:05
What will we do without that?
(seriously, color+radiosity in light, tightly controlled and used with the right artistic restraint, looks amazing)
Hmm...
#6311 posted by Drew [198.53.34.237] on 2007/08/28 19:06:23
neither seems to work for WC 1.6...
#6312 posted by necros [99.244.15.189] on 2007/08/28 19:29:15
i was never a fan of the q1rad compilers. maybe i was just using it wrong, but i found that, while it would get rid of ugly harsh shadows, it tended to wash stuff out too much, giving more of a rough ambient occlusion look. getting nice contrasting shadows was usually more work than it was to make fake radiosity with the regular light compilers. also, it took longer, which was another big reason. :P
I Reduced -bounce
#6313 posted by lurker [68.158.7.147] on 2007/08/28 22:45:32
when using q1rad which allowed me to control the lighting a bit more.
My recollection is q1rad can't support switchable lights though, which is a big negative for many single player maps.
Yep
#6314 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2007/08/29 11:33:36
My recollection is q1rad can't support switchable lights though, which is a big negative for many single player maps.
That is correct... it also crashes out on large maps before it finishes.
Bounce
#6315 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2007/08/30 14:23:22
Yeah, I remember back in the quake2 days thinking that -bounce was another one of those command line switches where a bigger number meant your map would be better. All of my quake2 maps were very bright and yellow.
#6316 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/08/30 14:48:20
All quake2 maps were very bright and yellow.
fixd 4 u
Rotating Stuff
#6317 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/08/31 07:58:02
I'd be interested by the use of rotating stuff in Quake: So, is there any tutorial, or any map example that explains the use of <*>_rotate stuff (Quoth)?
Thanks in advance
JPL
#6318 posted by Spirit [84.143.17.194] on 2007/08/31 08:45:28
Yes, CZG's tutorial is in the Quoth manual:
http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/...
http://czg.leveldesign.org/q/czg_r...
Spirirt
#6319 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/08/31 13:39:02
Thanks, I already know that one...
Nevertheless I'm really interested about a map example... It will be more helpfull I think.. ;)
Rotating Sandwich
#6320 posted by Preach [86.146.18.222] on 2007/08/31 19:57:35
The two posts at the start and end of this link give a method to make a func_rotate in a way I reckon is easier.
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
No example map, but I think it's easy enough to experiment with.
JPL:
#6321 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/08/31 20:43:47
look in the "GPL map sources" thread, maybe one of the GPL'd maps has rotating stuff in it.
Preach / Metlslime
#6322 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/08/31 22:16:45
Thanks for the infos ;)
Hipnotic Progs Doc And Example Maps
#6323 posted by negke [82.83.57.110] on 2007/08/31 22:56:14
http://shub-hub.com/files/tools/hi...
Light, Jr.
#6324 posted by biff_debris [71.88.203.178] on 2007/09/01 02:53:15
Anyone know anything about lightJuniors? I've got them in a RTCW map to keep the baddies from being blacked out, but they don't seem to be working? Anything I have to do other than simply have them in there?
Oh, Nevermind.
#6325 posted by biff_debris [71.88.203.178] on 2007/09/02 22:02:26
After scouring related forums and sites (and not finding a damned thing), and even hitting up the folks at #splashdamage, it took me a good soak in the tub to come up with the idea that my single-room map (and lightgrid) was too small to make the lightJuniors effective.
And I was right.
More Mapping Fun!
#6326 posted by biff_debris [71.88.203.178] on 2007/09/03 06:48:08
Now that I've gotten the lightJunior stuff figured, my walls seem to be lit oddly:
http://biff.leveldesign.org/pics/m...
Yes, those are patch curves on either end, and yes, everything is caulked -- both behind the curves and on the unexposed faces of the wall brushes.
But wait, there's more! Soon after that cropped up, I ended up getting leaks through solid brushes:
http://biff.leveldesign.org/pics/m...
Have no idea, what's going on -- mebbe my comp will be a pool of goo before morning...
Neg|ke
#6327 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/09/03 08:31:04
I was exactely looking for this ! Thanks a lot: you rock ! ;)
I Know It Isn't Much Help, Biff
#6328 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/09/04 02:03:21
but I never had any such problems when making my wolfenstein map. What compiler are you using? I was using the one that shipped with gtkradiant 1.1 or so, and then switched to q3map2 for the final compile. The compile tool versions are listed in the text file for the map.
The source is included with the map if you are interested in having a look anyway http://than.leveldesign.org/files/...
Not really any similar instances though, as I'm pretty sure I only used curves for pipes.
Too Dark
#6329 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/04 22:35:22
Another n00b problem. I made a bridge that's supposed to come out of its "locker" once you push a button. However, the bridge is all dark once it gets out. The same with door frames (the inner parts).
Before:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y...
After:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y...
#6330 posted by czg [83.253.252.162] on 2007/09/04 22:44:51
Move the bridge into its open position, reverse the move angle, and check the "Start Open" spawnflag.
Dark insides on doors can't be fixed in the same way because then the door fronts get dark, and that's even worse. Can't think of a way to fix that unless you've got a compiler that has entity minlight. (I don't know of any compiler that has that.)
#6331 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/09/04 22:57:49
Dark insides on doors can't be fixed in the same way because then the door fronts get dark, and that's even worse.
They CAN be, if you're willing to fully light the recess in which the doors reside when they are open.
Button
#6332 posted by MSD [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/05 00:49:50
I'm using Worldcraft 3.33 for Quake 1. I want to make a button trigger multiple doors which open at different heights. How do I do this?
#6333 posted by MSD [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/05 01:37:47
Hmm, I have fixed it by making two buttons that overlap
MSD:
#6334 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/05 01:50:00
two buttons is not necessary.
You can give the button a "target" and both doors the same "targetname" and it will work.
#6335 posted by [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/05 02:10:19
OH I see, that's obvious. Thanks
Can I put a button on a door? I wanted to have a block rise out of the ground after pressing a button and there be another button on the block.
MSD:
#6336 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/05 03:16:40
I wanted to have a block rise out of the ground after pressing a button and there be another button on the block.
Unfortunately this is not possible (at least with standard quake entities.) You can probably fake it, though, as follows: (Note that this entire thing will only work once; once you push the button and it dissapears, it can't come back for another push.)
First, make a func_door that looks like a block and also includes a "pushed-in-button" as part of the block geometry. Second, make another func_door that looks like an unpushed button. These two doors will rises up exactly at the same time and travel the same distance (this requires careful use of the "lip" field on both doors.) Third, create a trigger_multiple which covers the space where the button will be after it rises. This trigger will point to a "logic gate" which will then trigger two things -- 1. it will target whatever you want, and 2. it will "killtarget" the func_door that looks like a button, making it disappear. When it disappears, it will reveal the "pushed-in-button" that is actually part of the block, making it appear that the button actually moved.
Finally, becuase you want to killtarget the fake button but not the block, they need seperate targetnames. Becuase of this, you will also need a trigger_relay so that one event can make both func_doors rise at the same time.
The logic gate will ensure that when the block hasn't risen, the trigger_multiple does nothing and players won't realise it's there. (A logic gate, in case you didn't know, is a spike shooter pointed at a shootable button, with a door in between. It will only pass on the signal if the door is open.)
So here's a list of entities you need:
1. Input: this is whatever makes the block rise.
"target" "block"
2. Block: this is the func_door block with the pressed-in-button added.
"targetname" "block"
3. Relay: this is the trigger_relay.
"targetname" "block"
"target" "fakebutton"
4. Fake button: this is the func_door which looks like a button.
"targetname" "fakebutton"
5. Trigger: this is the trigger_multiple that users will touch when they are attempting to push the fake button.
"target" "logic"
6. Logic gate shooter: this is a spike shooter that attempts to shoot the logic gate button.
"targetname" "logic"
7. Logic gate door: This is a func_door that is closed whenever the block hasn't risen, and open whenever the block HAS risen.
"targetname" "block"
8. Logic gate button: This is the func_button that the shooter is aiming at. (Hmm, does anyone know if the same entity can both target one thing and kill another? If not, we need another relay to kill the fakebutton.)
"health" "1"
"killtarget" "fakebutton"
"target" "whatever"
9. Output: This is whatever the risen button is intended to trigger.
"targetname" "whatever"
Re: 8...
#6337 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/09/05 03:47:12
... AFAIK target OR kill, not target AND kill. So, the extra relay is required.
Thanks Than
#6338 posted by biff_debris [71.88.203.178] on 2007/09/05 11:58:11
But I ended up rebuilding the test map, and all seems fine now. Have no idea what was causing that sort of thing -- but if I have any more probs, I'll look into that link.
Re: Button
#6339 posted by MSD [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/05 17:25:44
Thanks for the help. I wish I understood.
MSD:
#6340 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/05 20:32:24
if it seems too complicated, you should probably go with something simpler for now. For example, have some bars block the button or something.
What Is That Blocks The Player On Corners Sometimes?
#6341 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.99] on 2007/09/07 17:23:38
like here:
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/S...
It might be QuArK floating point gayness but I know I found such edges on many maps.
Nevermind
#6342 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.99] on 2007/09/07 17:25:34
neg!ke just answered me:
qbsp bug, move the vertices or clip.
:)
Or Merge The Brushes
#6343 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2007/09/07 18:09:08
it's clip hull expansion logic. angled faces are expanded at an angle, and straight faces straight, so brushes that line up visually will end in different places after being expanded differing amounts on differing axes.
You Can
#6344 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.203] on 2007/09/07 19:42:54
visually inspect the player clipping hull by using the -hull 1 qbsp option. The map will probably look a bit different ...
Thanks
#6345 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.99] on 2007/09/07 20:13:33
I just made the /^\ part 1 unit smaller on each side. Looks the same and got rid of the problem. Now that I think about it I simply could have made the one part a func_wall I guess.
Hmm..
#6346 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/09/07 20:36:51
I thought (almost) all brush expansion problems were fixed in the most recent aguirre/tyrann tools...
Spirit
#6347 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/09/07 20:58:13
That fucked THF in some area, and I had to clip these corners... and it seems expansion problem are not completely solved...
Clipping
#6348 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/08 18:22:12
I used the clipping tool after doing some vertex editing and now I'm getting all kinds of errors with QBSP.exe whenever I try to compile.
So - what's wrong and is there any safer way to build a structure like this?:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y...
Well
#6349 posted by ijed [201.222.204.44] on 2007/09/08 19:00:01
Clipping can cause alot of problems under the right circumstances - minor foibles of the various software that can mangle a map.
An important one in WC1.6a is that clipping across more than one brush in a window where those brushes are not adjacent causes it to crash - but not if you clip from a window where they're touching / stacked.
From the screenshot I'd say you need to rebuild the corner, but sticking to the grid; when you make the angle lock it to the grid as well - at 45 degrees. So all the brushes will have compass rose angles.
It an enclosed brush (not a wall against the void, ie. no leaks) so what errors is bsp giving - is it removing faces on any of the brushes?
Anyhow; the basic answer is rebuild it, hanging onto the grid for dear life - when cutting, scaling or whichever manipulation you make.
#6350 posted by ijed [201.222.204.44] on 2007/09/08 19:11:23
A clarification - you don't need compass rose angles, just to snap to the grid size of your choosing. 32x2 or 16x2 in that case I reckon.
Agh!
#6351 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/08 19:38:08
Don't know what the fak is going on. I removed the structures (see the screenshot) and it still gives me shit. I removed some other crap I had recently built and still the program acts like a teenager. First it gives the usual "This program has encountered an error and will close" (QBSP.exe) Windows error message and then the compiling stops and tells me that a BSP file was not built.
Try
#6352 posted by ijed [201.222.200.91] on 2007/09/08 22:07:26
AguirRe's tooltips - just about every existing bsp error is listed in there.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Mikko
#6353 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.189] on 2007/09/08 22:08:43
If you're using the default WorldCraft qbsp, then try one of my compilers and see if it helps. If you're already using one of them, I'd like to see that map file.
Works!
#6354 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/08 23:35:00
Thanks - that just may have saved my map. I actually tried removing the whole area I had worked on today but even that didn't work. But these tools solved the problem and fixed a bunch of others as well (buttons not making a sound etc.). But I also noticed that some textures on curved surfaced got rotated 90 degrees.
Switch To
#6355 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.74] on 2007/09/08 23:53:41
TxQBSP (recommended) or add the TreeQBSP option -oldaxis.
WC = Piece Of Crap
#6356 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/09 17:27:36
I cannot believe how much headache this program is giving me - and I'm trying to build the last room. Now I can no longer select anything in 3D window. This actually has happened before but then I just restarted the program. Any ideas?
Mikko
#6357 posted by Orl [70.17.58.8] on 2007/09/09 19:30:50
This was a big problem for me to, but luckily Pope knew the answer on how to fix it. All you got to do is uncheck "Hardware Acceleration" in the options menu. You should now be able to click on objects in the 3d window after doing that.
Yeah, Heardware Accelleration Problem
#6358 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2007/09/10 02:11:32
unfortunately it runs slow as shit without hw turned on. I still use 1.6, but I should probably switch to hammer :/
WC Upgrade
#6359 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/09/10 02:58:34
The transition from 1.6 to later versions is basically painless. All you have to do is make sure you know how to compile hl .map format into q1 .bsp format (say, using our modern compile tools). You'll have to get a q1 entity placement file working, as well. It's worth it!
Thanks
#6360 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/10 16:30:13
Okay, it works now.
Two questions:
-How to make monsterspawns so that stepping on a sector triggers the spawns?
-I tried using the portal texture that usually ends a level but it's not visible in game.
Mikko
#6361 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.229] on 2007/09/10 16:40:14
1: Put monster into trigger_teleport, put tele_destination_something to where it should appear, make trigger_once for player to step into and target the trigger_teleport by it (eg trigger_teleport has targetname "montele1" and trigger_once has target "montele1").
2: trigger_teleport are invisible. Just create a new brush at the same place and give it the *TELEPORT texture to have it visible.
Mikko
#6362 posted by golden_boy [217.251.62.193] on 2007/09/11 00:32:01
1: Use Quoth, put monster where it should appear, set DELAYSPAWN flag on the monster, make trigger_once for the player to step into and target the monster by it (eg monster has targetname "montele1" and trigger_once has target "montele1").
@ Spirit: sorry ;-)
Golden_boy
#6363 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.246] on 2007/09/11 10:44:03
Ha, actually I really second the suggestion to use Quoth.
Quoth
#6364 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/11 14:40:00
I'm not gonna use Quoth since I want this level to be accessible to everyone. The fact is that many casual usermap players are just too lazy to install any extra material just to play a usermap.
In WC, I noticed this thing called Default light level. Do mappers usually use this?
Yep
#6365 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/09/11 15:33:30
But its an easy way to spoil a map if you set it too high - experiment until you get something you like.
It depends on the mood you want, typically set it so its less than your sunlight (which I'd advise using unless you don't have any sky brushes) with your actual pointlights being higher than that.
As I said before read aguirRe's documentation, there's alot of stuff to play with there, like anglesense, that can change the style of the map, only adding one (or a a handful of) variables to your worldspawn (SmartEdit).
Mikko:
#6366 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.43] on 2007/09/11 15:52:33
Your choice, but Quoth is on its way to become a sort of standard... when Basepack and Quoth2 come out with the _real_ goodies, it will be a defacto standard.
I think everybody here has it, and thinking back, many maps released in the past months use Quoth, as well as mapping projects like the vertical map contest and of course Basepack. Also Ijed's Warpspasm...
The only ones who don't have Quoth are probably very casual players or newbies (not many). Or QW players.
With the project I'm coworking on atm, I was reluctant in the beginning to use Quoth, but it's really for the better. I can not imagine using the trigger_teleport setup anymore. The thought alone is enough to make me go *brrrrrrrrr*. It's a pain in the ass that Quoth can spare you (plus some of the new monsters are really good, like the Rocketeer or Voreling.)
Think of it as a mapper's toolkit, rather than just a mod. It's not just about new monsters. It gives you as a mapper, more freedom and more possibilities, while not requiring any custom engine.
It's your choice though :-)
And
#6367 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/09/11 15:54:48
I can send you an updated .fgd if you want to use it - meaning all the options for light, Quoth entities etc. appear in WC without having to mess about with SmartEdit.
Well
#6368 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.200] on 2007/09/11 20:39:55
probably this is not the right place, but i want to ask a Q4/D3 mapping question. it's stupid but how the hell can i set a screenshot on map load in d3 engine?
And
#6369 posted by golden_boy [217.251.60.75] on 2007/09/11 21:31:09
Should someone prefer .def files, I have a unified Quoth+Quake one. :-)
D3 Loading Screenshot
#6370 posted by czg [83.253.252.162] on 2007/09/11 21:33:52
The loading screen is actually a GUI.
Take a look at the original GUI files and you can probably figure out how to make a copy with the relevant file pointer changed.
I don't remember if there's a naming scheme that decides what GUI the game shows during load or if it's written in a script/decl somewhere, but I remember the whole thing as being easy to figure out.
Items Disappear
#6371 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/11 21:52:23
I started adding items and monsters. Now, why the hell do some items insist on disappearing? I have checked that they're not limited to any particular skill setting and so on so what's the problem?
The teleport thing doesn't work. The platform that has been tied to trigger_once entity doesn't show up in game.
In Build, all you had to do was to add a sprite called Touchplate and give it a value. Then you added Respawn sprites around the map and linked them to the Touchplate sprite. Quake is like Doom - the monsters have to be somewhere in the map before you teleport them.
"The only ones who don't have Quoth are probably very casual players or newbies (not many). Or QW players."
Yes, but the map is 95% done so it wouldn't make any sense to switch to Quoth at this point just to avoid having problems with teleporting monsters.
Standard or not, it's still extra hassle to many casual players. This is just a usermap and therefore not worth the trouble.
I of course have Quoth, play maps that support Quoth and think it's a fun pack. The monsters are particularly entertaining.
Dissappearing Items
#6372 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/09/11 22:07:40
I'm guessing you've gone beyond a certain size, which means WC won't display all the objects - remember, its about as old as Q1 itself. To get around it use visgroups.
I could go into a detailed explanation but they're pretty logical and easy to use - properties of whichever object, set it to a visgroup, set the hand of that visgroup on or off and update - the off hands visgroups are invisible in the map. Useful for building stacked levels or just seeing the geometry without alot of entity boxes in the way.
Also, for the platform you mention, it's probably better to make it a func_wall that is killtargetted by the trigger_once - the monster's stood on top and falls into the teleport field after the func_wall is removed.
Mikko
#6373 posted by negke [82.83.7.250] on 2007/09/11 22:09:27
The items are likely disappearing because they are placed too close or even inside the walls. Move them a few units away from any adjacent geometry. Type 'developer 1' in the console and load your map to see corresponding warnings.
If all you wish for is teleporting monsters, then there is no need to go for Quoth of course. Just put them inside trigger_teleport brushes in a room outside of your main map and have some trigger_once (or any other entity) fire them as explained above.
As for casual players not caring for installing extra mods: It's probably true, yeah. But then again, if they are too casual to even read the text file coming with the map (explaining what is required to run it), they don't really deserve to play it at all.
Of course, if you're benevolent, adding some 'protection' can't be wrong when using a mod... But that's another story. ;)
Worked
#6374 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/11 23:20:30
Okay, the items weren't inside walls but apparently too close to them (had no idea that's a no no).
Anyways, I asked a few days ago about sunlight. Now, I have no idea where to put that "-sunlight" command (I have Aguire's tools). I checked "Extra" options from the Run window but apparently I had no idea what I was doing since the program crashed/didn't have any effect when I tried putting that -sunlight somewhere there. The txt file provided no instructions for n00bs like me.
The lighting system is pretty new to me. In Duke3D (and in Doom) you construct all shadows manually by building sectors and then shading them. I actually made a map (http://lvlworld.com/comments.php?... for Q3A but that was a bit - but not much - different (GTKRadiant) and it's been years.
Mikko
#6375 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/09/12 00:19:29
Start using the tools from the command line. That is where you add such options as "-sunlight". In the end, the trouble is worth it (imo).
Teles
#6376 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/12 19:14:24
Now the teleport thing works but I have no idea where the monsters go. The monsters are teleported from their original location but they don't end up where they're supposed to end up. I'm supposed to add info_teleport_destination entity to where I want the monsters to appear, right? And the trigger_teleport is supposed to target it.
That's Correct...
#6377 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/12 20:35:50
as a test, make sure the destination is off the floor a fair amount.
In radiant the bounding box can rest on the floor, but if you're just placing a zero-sized point (does worldcraft do it this way? -- probably, since worldcraft users are always putting ammo in walls and stuff) then it need to be up... try 48 or 64 units...
Telefraggin'
#6378 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/12 21:39:34
Yeah, it works now but the monsters get telefragged. I guess I have to make separate teleports for each dude.
Mikko:
#6379 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/12 21:41:10
oh, yes you do. I didn't realize you were pointing them all to the same spot.
Pretty Much Done
#6380 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/12 22:13:45
Yeah, well that wasn't the real problem but the fact that the destination entity wasn't enough off the floor. Of course, I have been making sure when placing items and other entities that they're not inside walls but I didn't know that's not enough.
Anyways, if I want killing one monster to cause another one to spawn, is it done the same way as other monsterspawns, just with the exception that I replace the trigger_once brush with a monster? What if I want it so that a total of three etc. monsters need to be killed before another wave steps in?
Mikko:
#6381 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/12 22:32:20
Anyways, if I want killing one monster to cause another one to spawn, is it done the same way as other monsterspawns, just with the exception that I replace the trigger_once brush with a monster?
Correct.
What if I want it so that a total of three etc. monsters need to be killed before another wave steps in?
Have all three monsters point to a "trigger_counter" with a count of 3, and that trigger_counter points to the teleporter.
Coloured Lights...
#6382 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/09/14 06:42:20
Hi all, I'm currently working on a Q1 base level using JPL's converted d3 texz and would like to add to the d3 effect by including some subtle coloured lighting. JPL has attempted to get me going in this area but I think I'm missing something. I use WC1.6 and compile using aguirRe's tools except for lighting, for which I've substituted the latest tyrlite build.
Can anyone:
- point me to a tute
- carefully explain their method
- point to common mistakes made by coloured light noobs :)
Distrans
#6383 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/09/14 08:21:40
Please send me an email explaining which method you are using, plus a map example with something you tried to do (e.g, a square room with 4 ligths of different colors would be enough I guess), but for which you were unable to obtain the wanted effect (explained what you wanted as well BTW)...
I'd be happy to help you on that point.
And
#6384 posted by MadFox [84.26.197.67] on 2007/09/14 17:33:59
Tyrlight is the enlightened one who has shapened Quake with coloured light.
I think you can find all tutorials there.
http://tyrann.planetquake.gamespy....
Dada
#6385 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/17 19:26:29
Not really about mapping but how to enter spectator mode so that you can take all these nice screenshots with enemies and no weapons attached on the screen?
Try Adding This In Your Config, Then Press Q
#6386 posted by Spirit [213.39.186.158] on 2007/09/17 19:57:57
alias screenshot_on "r_drawviewmodel 0;crosshair 0;viewsize 120;fov 120;bind q screenshot_off"
alias screenshot_off "r_drawviewmodel 1;crosshair 1;viewsize 100;fov 120;bind q screenshot_on"
bind q screenshot_on
Fov 120 Is Way Too Much
#6387 posted by negke [82.83.21.179] on 2007/09/17 20:26:25
Only By 30 ...
#6388 posted by aguirRe [213.101.70.156] on 2007/09/17 20:57:48
:P
#6389 posted by Spirit [80.171.128.185] on 2007/09/17 21:15:24
Hmm
#6390 posted by Bal [195.101.1.129] on 2007/09/18 10:21:59
I still play in fov 120 in any game that lets me, feels so weird when it's less. =\
Monsterspawn Failure
#6391 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/18 19:21:20
Why do some monsterspawns refuse to work? The target and name tags are correct - I have checked this a zillion times. The teleports are teleports and they're of the same size as all the other teleports around the map so it's not that the monsters are too big. Also, believe me I've checked they're not too close to any walls.
I have around 30 spawns around the map so having four malfunctioning teleports is not such a big issue but it's actually becoming an obsession. And it's three specific areas.
Mikko
#6392 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.12] on 2007/09/18 23:35:51
the teleports are teleports? huh?
You stick the monster you want to spawn halfway into a trigger_teleport. The monster and the trigger_teleport get the same "targetname" field. The trigger_teleport targets an info_teleport_destination. Make sure the info_teleport_destination doesn't have the same "targetname" field as the other two!
You have all the monster/trigger_teleport setups in a separate dedicated spawner room.
Right?
Did you get skills messed up (does Light give you messages like "X has no target in Easy skill" etc)?
The trigger_teleports can be any size, it's enough if the monster touches them. Each monster must have its own trigger_teleport! Make sure they don't touch (leave some room between them.)
The info_teleport_destination, as you noted, should not be inside walls etc.
Do you get any error messages? Tried setting "developer 1" in the console, or starting the game with -developer command line flag? Those give you more messages.
And I hope this doesn't upset you, but can you see now why I suggested Quoth? :-)
#6393 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/19 01:19:02
"The monster and the trigger_teleport get the same "targetname" field."
I haven't named the monsters but I don't think it matters since 90% of these spawns work fine without targetnames.
"Did you get skills messed up"
No. The monsters are there - they just don't spawn.
All the spawns are in a separate room, each monster having his own telebox and so on.
Developer 1 doesn't show anything relevant.
Anywayz, this had me wonder:
"The trigger_teleports can be any size, it's enough if the monster touches them."
"You stick the monster you want to spawn halfway into a trigger_teleport."
What do you mean by "halfway" in this context?
#6394 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/19 01:33:42
The monster and the trigger_teleport get the same "targetname" field.
This isn't required, but does have the benefit of making sure the monster wakes up as soon as he spawns in (instead of waiting until he sees the player)
#6395 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.237] on 2007/09/19 04:31:30
Halfway means, the monster and the trigger overlap. You shove the monster 16 or 32 units into the trigger.
Perhaps you should mail the map to somebody else, perhaps AguirRe, and ask if he can take a look at it?
Map Dimension Limits?
#6396 posted by Baker [67.149.220.91] on 2007/09/19 12:40:18
What are the maximum and minimum X, Y, Z coordinates for a standard Quake compatible map?
If I recall, I think maps have dimension limits of 4096 x 4096 x 4096 but this might be wrong.
Is the answer -2048, -2048, -2048 to 2048, 2048, 2048?
Part B:
What are max/mins in aguirRe's engine and DarkPlaces?
I have an idea for maze generator or possibly a dungeon maker for Quake that writes the .map randomly (for all practical purposes) and then compiles it and it should be rather easy to make [because I have the source for such a program and just need to make it output the brush coordinates]... I just need to know the limits.
Thanks to whoever knows the answer.
#6397 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.14] on 2007/09/19 13:17:28
One third of Darkplaces' maximum: http://urre.quakedev.com/stuff/spc...
The Q1 Map Limit
#6398 posted by aguirRe [212.151.16.156] on 2007/09/19 13:27:03
is +/-4096 in all directions, i.e. a box with 8192 unit sides. Most engines (including mine) are using those limits, while I think DP has (+/-)64k.
I'd rather not think about a maze that challenges any of those limits ...
I'd Rather Not Think About A Maze That Challenges Any Of Those Limits
#6399 posted by Baker [67.149.220.91] on 2007/09/19 13:47:03
I'm laughing, like for real. ;)
That would be the most frustrating map ever. Even with 8192 it still may be the case.
Shit.
#6400 posted by ijed [201.222.205.179] on 2007/09/20 01:27:18
I already made three of those (8192) :P
Just For Shits
#6401 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/09/20 04:24:15
I'm debating making a 8192^3 level... using special tools of course.
To Clarify
#6402 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/09/20 04:28:14
By special tools I mean writing some evolutionary search method to design levels. I really doubt it'd actually be 8192^3, but that could potentially happen if the algorithm is designed in the right way. I don't have the time to work on this any time soon, but the idea seems like it could have merit for game designers, in order to generate... well, whatever is desired. Practically speaking it would be incredibly difficult to "get right," but whatever.
I can think of some func'ers who would be interested in implementing this...
What The Hell Are You Talking About?
#6403 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/20 14:10:50
Translation:
#6404 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/20 20:40:23
"I seriously think I might make a map using a tool that doesn't exist and that I don't know how to write, but I imagine someone else on func will write it for me."
Removed The Five Malfunctioning Spawns
#6405 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/21 01:56:39
One last question: is it possible to make an elevator (func_door) so that when it goes down (activated by a button), it stays down, and has to be once again activated (by another button) to go back up? I tried the "Stays open" value but that prevented it from going back up altogether.
The 'toggle' Spawnflag
#6406 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/09/21 02:12:24
it will do what you want. :)
Tyrlight
#6407 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/21 05:35:28
Tyrlight 99c is crashing on a specific plane in my map, consistently, only in colored light mode. Is there any way I can trace that back to a brush, or whatever else might be causing it? I really don't have the patience to just start fucking with random brushes and 'jiggling the handle' until I maybe get a result.
Aside From Divide-and-conquer Compiling, That Is
#6408 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/21 05:36:20
Screenshots
#6409 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/21 23:19:26
I asked previously (#6385) about how to take screenshots so that the weapon doesn't show and I received a reply in #6386. However, is there any way to fly/walk around the level in a spectator mode so that the monsters cannot see you? I'd like to snap a few shots with monsters posing in them but so that they're not trying to shoot me.
#6410 posted by gibbie [128.183.109.101] on 2007/09/21 23:28:09
i think if you type 'notarget' they won't see you. also set crosshair 0, r_drawviewmodel 0, viewsize 120, and fov 105 or something. afterwards you'll probably need to brighten the shots up a bit in photoshop (play with curves).
Well
#6411 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/22 01:36:51
shrinking the map down to smaller and smaller bits to isolate the cause of the error didn't help. tyrlite -lit crashes within the first few dozen faces no matter what map I compile with it, even maps with no lights.
trying other BSPers in advance doesn't help, so it's probably not a compatibility issue there. tyrlite 0.99c has in fact been confirmed to work when compiling a map with a .lit, right?
Okay
#6412 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/22 02:38:59
bamb is getting the same crash in a different map on a different computer. apparently it's tyrann's fault!
Lun...
#6413 posted by distrans [220.236.66.162] on 2007/09/22 07:16:41
...as am I. Thank goodness I'm not as stupid as I thought. It crashes out at 12-20 faces for me.
Mikko
#6414 posted by sielwolf [84.130.204.27] on 2007/09/22 19:38:12
look up the Quake cheat codes(noclip/notarget), and set sv_altnoclip 1 (works in Fitz and aguirRe´s engine), then you can fly around using the mouse like in Q2.
Yay!
#6415 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/22 23:18:19
Well, the map is finally done and I no longer have to bug you with stupid questions! See the news section for details (well, in a moment at least).
Thank you all for help.
Ouch!
#6416 posted by Tyrann [203.122.235.99] on 2007/09/23 04:31:48
Hey guys, I might not hang out here much anymore, but I still take bug reports. Someone email me a map which is killing my light util and I'll fix it.
So Far All Of Them
#6417 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/23 06:39:05
are we using it wrong?
So
#6418 posted by ijed [201.222.200.224] on 2007/09/23 08:56:00
Send an email
My Point Is
#6419 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/23 17:37:31
he can place a single brush and press 'hollow' and it'll crash his compiler. that's all we've had to do.
Gravity
#6420 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/24 02:04:55
How do I change the gravity for a map in WorldCraft 3.33?
Worldspawn
#6421 posted by ijed [201.222.201.176] on 2007/09/24 02:54:30
Map, Map properties and then Gravity.
Default is 800, and I think Ziggurat of Vertigo is at 300.
Takes A Custom Progs.dat Though
#6422 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.53] on 2007/09/24 05:15:17
and don't forget to use a towel.
Yeah...
#6423 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/09/24 06:07:16
custom gravity won't work without custom code...
unless preach knows one of his many secret map hacks :)
Searching Textures
#6424 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/09/24 15:14:42
I need a texture that looks similar to the clock texture in the rogue missionpack. Does anybody know ewere to find or if such a texture exists?
thanks
Don't Recall
#6425 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.183] on 2007/09/24 16:56:09
the Rouge pack havung a clock texture, but there is one in the Scourge of Armagon pack. It may be worth checking out.
Dark Artifacts
#6426 posted by Spirit [213.39.204.101] on 2007/09/24 17:18:01
I compiled with light options -soft -extra4
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442...
If there is an easy way to get rid of those using compiler options I would love to do it. I won't change anything on the map because it is supposed to be finished. ;)
No.
#6427 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/09/24 17:44:22
I Mixed It Up
#6428 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/09/24 20:08:36
Sorry I meant hipnotic not rogue
Rudl
#6429 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/09/24 21:20:10
Just open the .bsp with Texmex and it'll extract all the textures.
Spirit
#6430 posted by aguirRe [212.151.13.34] on 2007/09/25 01:23:30
If you're using some sort of ETP map format (e.g. QuArK etp or Valve 220), try the -etp option and see if that helps.
Ijed
#6431 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/09/25 08:58:32
Thanks, but I already have the clock texture, but I need a second one that looks similar.
QuArK can also extract textures
#6432 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/09/25 09:13:50
Need it for this map
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297...
That Shot Looks Interesting
#6433 posted by negke [82.83.40.35] on 2007/09/25 09:51:34
There are two clock textures in the kingpin wad, although they might not be exactly what you are looking for.
Fix For The .lit Issue
#6434 posted by Tyrann [203.122.235.99] on 2007/09/25 10:11:33
New version of my utils with a fix for the (again, silly and obvious) bug when running light with "-lit" is now up.
http://disenchant.net/files/utils/...
Rudl
#6435 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.4] on 2007/09/25 10:51:13
That looks nice indeed. I bet there are some wicked clock textures in American McGee'S Alice. There is a wad somewhere if I recall right.
I'm Mapping Tonight So...
#6436 posted by distrans [59.167.21.52] on 2007/09/25 10:51:21
...hugs and beer to you Tyrann!
So...
#6437 posted by distrans [59.167.21.52] on 2007/09/25 10:56:30
...what is the relationship between fog and minlight?
American McGee's Alice Wad
#6438 posted by negke [82.82.182.198] on 2007/09/25 12:11:30
I've never seen an alice.wad so I quickly compiled one. Many textures look horrible in the Quake palette but there are also many nice ones.
http://shub-hub.com/files/textures...
Spirit: please mirror it at quaddicted.com/wads
Fog / Minlight
#6439 posted by Tyrann [203.122.237.119] on 2007/09/25 13:34:13
Fog and minlight have nothing to do with each other. Unless I don't understand the question...
#6440 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.4] on 2007/09/25 15:11:12
neg|ke: done
aguirRe: Thanks, didn't help in this case though. The map is done now. :)
NegIke
#6441 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/09/25 20:37:18
Thanks cool textures, but I need something more Quake like.
I already try to modify the texture of the missionpack a bit.
Woo!
#6442 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/26 01:47:24
thanks tyrann! works a peach.
Is There Any
#6443 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.193] on 2007/09/26 05:43:58
limit to how many monsters I can have visible on screen at the same time? I need something that looks like an army.
What would happen if it's too many? What breaks first?
Re: Gravity
#6444 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/26 06:56:22
so there's no way to change the gravity for a player (without him using sv_gravity)? that sucks
Tyrann...
#6445 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/09/26 07:29:30
...that answers the question, thankyou! Oh, and thanks for the bug fix, now Ruined Nation looks even more D3 than before.
Packet Overflow?
#6446 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/26 12:33:33
(I don't mean to interrupt anyone's conversation here, but I was trying to determine what are the "packet overflow" limits for Quake 1 in this test map:
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/f...
I'm using WinQuake and prefer to design for DOS / WinQuake rather than the more powerful ports. (I'm guessing packet overflow is related to that). I guess the main thing is just to avoid rockets/grenades if you're trying to put a lot of enemies onscreen. I'm still interested in the limits of the Quake 1 engine if anyone has made a chart or document of some kind. Thanks!
IKBase Wad?
#6447 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.194.24] on 2007/09/26 15:07:07
Does anybody know where I can download the legenday IKBase wad, cause I wanna check it out, but all of the links I find on google or whatever dont seem to work. If only I'd been up to this sort of shinnannegans 3 or f4 years ago!
RickyT23
#6448 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.41] on 2007/09/26 17:20:59
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Msd
#6449 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/09/26 19:17:57
i think if you name your bsp file e1m8.bsp, you may be able to trick the engine into using the 100 gravity from that map.
basically, when the map loads up, if the filename is called "e1m8.bsp" it sets it to 100, otherwise, it sets to 800.
#6450 posted by negke [82.82.170.135] on 2007/09/26 20:49:11
Renaming the bsp is the worst way to do it (besides, it won't even work just like that because the file in the pak has a higher priority than stuff in the maps directory and would therefore be loaded instead). Either make your map require a mod which has a trigger_gravity (e.g. SOA) or trigger_command (e.g. Quoth), or simply add a centerprint in the beginning telling the player to change sv_gravity manually.
Huh?
#6451 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/09/26 21:02:31
files in paks have to be lower priority, otherwise, how would progs.dat files in mod dirs do anything?
Re: Gravity
#6452 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/09/26 21:10:50
Quoth allows you to set the gravity in the map's worldspawn.
Using trigger_setgravity only changes gravity for the player who triggers it ( not monsters or coop teammates ).
#6453 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/09/26 21:14:43
files in paks have to be lower priority, otherwise, how would progs.dat files in mod dirs do anything?
I'm sure we've had this argument before :P
priority runs thus:
mod pak file -> mod folder -> id1 pak file -> id1 folder
so if someone made a map and named it e1m8.bsp and placed it in the id1/maps folder, it would not be loaded: e1m8 in the id1 pak0.pak would supercede it.
If, however, their version of e1m8 was placed in a mod folder e.g. quoth/maps it would be loaded instead of ziggurat vertigo while playing Quoth.
As neg|ke says, this would generally be bad form for a mapper to do.
Hehe
#6454 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/09/27 01:29:13
yeah, i remember discussing that with you. :)
i forgot that the id1 folder was at the bottom of the barrel though. :P
and i totally agree it'd be bad form to name your map the same as a stock map.
Thanks
#6455 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/09/27 13:22:38
thank you for gravity information. i'll look into quoth.
don't care about bad form, though. Prefer it, usually.
Packet Overflow
#6456 posted by aguirRe [212.151.24.137] on 2007/09/27 14:08:42
is just one of several different choking symptoms that indicate that the engine can't cope with the current situation.
AFAIK there's no simple formula that'll tell you if a particular engine's going to choke or not, you'll have to try to provoke it. Most engines will choke very easily, as your small map clearly demonstrates.
Msd
#6457 posted by Sielwolf [84.130.218.244] on 2007/09/27 19:36:17
I wasn´t able to get your test map to overflow in aguirRe´s enhanced engine.
Q3>Q1
#6458 posted by MadFox [84.26.112.218] on 2007/09/27 21:53:00
Is here an easy way to recompile a Q3bsp back to a map file?
I remember there was a script for it, using it with blender and so. But I don't mean this.
I'm glad I finaly have my Qrediant nightly working on win98.
But winbsp can't handel q3. Q2toQ1map won't work either.
Hmm....
#6459 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/27 21:59:18
can BSPC do this? (the tool normally used to create bot files for quake3)
Orphaned Textures
#6460 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/09/28 00:30:40
Does anyone know where I could find the full than_industrial texture set? Than's planetquake page (pq/cesspit, right?) is gone.
Thanks...
#6461 posted by MadFox [84.26.112.218] on 2007/09/28 02:05:28
for your help, metlslime!
Msd, AguirRe
#6462 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.7] on 2007/09/28 21:58:45
Most engines will choke very easily, as your small map clearly demonstrates.
To my surprise, I was not able to provoke any "Packet overflow" messages in Proquake 350 software (!) with Msd's map.
The map was fully playable, the lag was almost unnoticeable. And I have a stone-age system.
It answers my own question I asked earlier: it is very much possible to have lots of enemies onscreen at the same time. Enemy count alone seems to be no problem.
I myself intend to use about 100 Knights. That should be no problem because they only have a melee attack. Right? No particles or projectiles or dynamic lights.
What is the hard-coded limit for this? There must be one.
You're Not Trying
#6463 posted by aguirRe [212.151.22.154] on 2007/09/29 02:17:00
hard enough, try throwing a quad grenade in there and see what happens ...
Visible monster count is most definitely a problem, try out my lr/lrb maps that I posted earlier on shub-hub. Even if the monsters haven't seen you or do anything except standing idle, most engines will choke completely on that (if they can even load the map at all, try Easy skill on the smaller map).
Knights are easier as they don't produce new edicts like e.g. HKs or Ogres do.
There are many hardcoded engine limits, some of them don't translate very well to an easy explanation.
Oh, Fuck You Aguire, I Didn't Say My Problem Was
#6464 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/29 03:25:43
specifically with the last combat, I said I stopped there. I saw the giant doom-style pile of ammo and was a little war-weary by then so I saved and quit.
thanks for the protip.
Lunaran:
#6465 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/09/29 08:14:50
i think he was telling golden_boy that he wasn't trying hard enough to generate a packet overflow.
Yup
#6466 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.145] on 2007/09/29 23:54:41
I was being stupid, should have thought of explosives. Hm. There will be a way though. Who says the player will *fight* them.
Hmmmm...
#6467 posted by distrans [121.44.125.72] on 2007/09/30 11:21:24
...I'm dabbling in Quoth at the moment, thought I'd better release at least one Quoth map before the update. Anyhoo, when I was placing ammunition and health whilst building Travail, it went/appeared where I damn well put it. This is far from the case with this level build. There is a huge difference between placement in editor and in game, this despite the size/entities definitions being the same for both the Travail and Quoth .fgd file.
aguirRe?...anyone?
Blame Worldcraft
#6468 posted by negke [82.82.186.32] on 2007/09/30 11:31:26
/*QUAKED item_cells (0.0 0.5 0.8) (0 0 0) (32 32 32)
/*QUAKED item_health (0.3 0.3 1.0) (0 0 0) (32 32 32
/*QUAKED item_rockets (0.0 0.5 0.8) (0 0 0) (32 32 32)
/*QUAKED item_shells (0.0 0.5 0.8) (0 0 0) (32 32 32)
/*QUAKED item_spikes (0.0 0.5 0.8) (0 0 0) (32 32 32)
Wow
#6469 posted by Lunaran [75.134.23.155] on 2007/09/30 22:20:32
sorry aguire, that was a totally different thread I thought I was posting in
hee! :(
Worldcraft No More Please...
#6470 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/09/30 23:01:16
Did someone indicate a few weeks ago that it's possible to build Quake maps with Hammer if one happens to be sick and tired of Worldcraft? If so, are there any instructions available on how to set things up, and what possible downsides should I expect?
Mikko
#6471 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.232] on 2007/09/30 23:26:38
Try BspEditor
Mikko
#6472 posted by Orl [70.17.46.174] on 2007/09/30 23:51:10
Everything you need is on this page: http://www.quakeone.com/qadapter/
Mikko
#6473 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/10/01 11:52:52
http://www.quakeone.com/navigator/
go to developer/Map Editors
I prefer QuArK
Sorry --
#6474 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/10/01 14:43:10
I should have explained: my map was saved and compiled just at the point where the packet overflow was becoming acceptable. If you throw the grenades then the packet overflows start a bit because the backpacks drop, which push the poly count over its limits, I think, or it's the gibs. Anyway, I originally had a much taller tower with about four times as many enemies, heh. I just wanted to make a level that had a horrendous amount of gibs going on.
Question:
#6475 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.194.24] on 2007/10/01 14:49:06
Are there any limits to what shape a func_door can be?
I have a door which is a 7 sided semi-circle, 8 units wide, (152*76*<128 vertical>) and its supposed to move up into another similar shaped slightly wider brush, but it behaves strangely in that it doesnt trigger even though theres no targetname.
Any clues?
Also
#6476 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/10/01 14:50:20
I came to an even more dire problem with another map I was making -- I tried putting some enemies inside a box of explosive boxes (so that the explosive boxes surrounded in the enemies in a box-like shape, that is), which I thought would be fun to blow up, but Quake only handles about four or five of those boxes and a few enemies in the same room before it crashes -- you're just supposed to use one or two at a time. The barrels in Doom were definitely more fun!
#6477 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.4] on 2007/10/01 15:10:34
The exploding box idea is pretty weird =) There used to be this game "C-Dogs" (a top-down 2d shooter) which had some levels with explosives lined around all walls. The trick was to not die (there would be chain reactions etc). I remember it to be really, really funny. It's sad that this would not be possible in Quake then... it was one of the ideas on my mental list.
The mass enemy idea I have is to just spawn in something that looks like an army (Knights are fine) and having the player feel like he's getting totally swarmed. He would not have to fight them though, they would be some distance away. So no chance of gibs etc. occurring. Perhaps some hack to take away his weapons, to make sure... it would be just before the end of the level.
There is an older speedmap (Doom theme?) which has quite a lot of different enemies at the same time (like 30, and then another 30). It was fun and I don't remember packet overflows... although there were ogres , hellknights and vores involved... I'll see if I can find which it was, I'd like to play it again. You get a bunch of weapons at the start (Doom style) and then chaos...
Approaching Army
#6478 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.70] on 2007/10/01 15:21:29
You could put a transparent "glass" between the monsters and the player.
Explobox Crash
#6479 posted by negke [82.82.169.96] on 2007/10/01 15:28:18
Too many explosions at once crash the game because all the particles exceed the active edicts limit, I think. Only limit-removing engines can help here.
Explobox Crash
#6480 posted by aguirRe [212.151.18.35] on 2007/10/01 16:57:53
No, it's because of a QC bug that too many of them won't work together; they'll cause a stack overflow in most engines.
This bug and too many others to mention are fixed e.g. in the Warp or Travail progs. With one of them, you should be able to have more boxes (and spawns) without stack overflow.
And particles are not edicts, usually they're controlled engine-side with the -particles option. Having many particles will cause a slowdown in most engines, though.
And poly count doesn't affect packet overflows either, the former is entirely client side and the latter is mostly server side. Gibs (ot other edicts) will definitely increase the risk for overflow, though.
Doors?
#6481 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.194.24] on 2007/10/01 17:04:45
Weird thing is I have a func_door elevator with loads of brushes, (all 90 degree angles tho) nearby which works fine.
No clues?
RickyT23
#6482 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/01 18:29:12
It's not too clear what your problem is, but AFAIK the size or shape of a door affects its function in no way at all, unless you're talking about the lip value.
Doors trigger when a player or monster moves with 64 (?) units or so, if it has a targetname and is next to another door then both need to have their 'door don't link' flag checked in order to work.
#6483 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.34] on 2007/10/01 21:05:24
You could put a transparent "glass" between the monsters and the player.
Yep... or I might find a clever way to end the level, and then just have the army shown by the intermission cam. Something like that.
:-)
Linux Mapper?
#6484 posted by dak [213.113.123.113] on 2007/10/02 00:56:35
Was hoping to find some decent mapping tool that I could use in Linux, as I've been slowly transferring over to using Ubuntu full-time :) Any suggestions are welcome!
#6485 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/10/02 01:28:47
GTKRadiant is probably your best bet for linux mapping.
No...
#6486 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/10/02 07:08:15
...I won't blame WC1.6, as I pointed out the size/entity definitions for the ammo and health are exactly the same in both .fgd files. Yet I can place with pin point accuracy in Travail and by pure guess in Quoth. Any other ideas?
Ubuntu
#6487 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/10/02 10:27:40
QuArK runs on Linux with wine (QuArK version 6.3 + Miniphyton) The tools were emulated too.
Quest FFS
#6488 posted by negke [82.82.185.183] on 2007/10/02 10:33:09
;)
Ijed
#6489 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.194.24] on 2007/10/02 11:35:20
Hmm, Ill try the doors dont link flag, I never thought of that. You see there are two doors not four units away from eachother. Ones meant to close (has 'starts open' flagged) and the one I was talking about is supposed to open, but only if youve got the gold keycard.
Thanks for the tip.
Linux+GTKRadiant
#6490 posted by Linuxuser [59.167.110.192] on 2007/10/02 11:42:25
Works like a treat, and you can use aguirRe's tools via wine for compiling, they also work fine :)
Editor
#6491 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.6.235] on 2007/10/02 13:35:06
Oh come on man, THRED is where it's at.
In all seriousness though, I would strongly recommend GtkRadiant 1.4 (hacked to work for Quake editing) if you're on Linux.
Also, if you're on Linux, be sure to direct your self-righteous fury [1] at anyone who has released updated Q1 compile tools for win32 but has actively refused to port them to your operating system of choice.*
[1] Otherwise known as "I fucked myself in the ass, but I cannot admit that to myself, so I'm going to accuse you of fucking me in the ass, mister tools programmer!"
* Actually, don't - you'll just make yourself look like an idiot for saying something so astonishingly ignorant.
What
#6492 posted by bambuz [193.167.3.103] on 2007/10/02 13:48:02
Fribs means, is that you can ask for Linux ports but you can't demand them.
C-Dogs
#6493 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/10/02 19:39:57
Interesting looking game. Something for DOS made in 1997-1999?
"Enemy count alone seems to be no problem."
yeah I think you may be right.
"The mass enemy idea I have is to just spawn in something that looks like an army (Knights are fine) and having the player feel like he's getting totally swarmed. He would not have to fight them though, they would be some distance away."
I've never actually finished a map before but I think that's the best thing, to keep up the illusion and intensity of enemies swarming in, even if it's never more than five on screen or something.
I tried a glass wall once with a lot of enemies behind it -- maybe similar idea to what was brought up. You jump down into a room after being chased and suddenly you see a ton of enemies in the room, impossible to fight, but then are supposed to be like "phew!" when you realize they're behind a glass wall. But somethign about it was just didn't work, so i scrapped it. i can't remember
Distrans
#6494 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/10/03 02:29:25
re: items
I checked with my own copy of WC and both the quake.fgd and quoth.fgd Works fine.
I really don't know what could be causing the problem, but nothing was ever added to Quoth to alter the ammo/health items that I can recall.
You don't have alternate ammo/health bmodels in a folder somewhere, do you?
Edit: yeah, I just looked inside the Travail pak0 and there are alternate bmodels :P I'd have to decompile them to actually see, but I can only conclude the someone on the Travail team made custom 'corrected' versions, so that their origins were in the center of the boxes.
The original id ammo/health boxes have their origins at the bottom corners, not the centers, and those are what Quoth uses too.
Yaaaaay...
#6495 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/10/03 02:37:57
...thanks for looking into that Kell, for a moment I thought I was going bonkers. I remember the introduction of the new bmodels into Travail, something to do with how the models lit I think. I'll start using bottom left (?) as a reference. Thank goodness I'll get to release a map with hordes of "Bobs" in it :)
Cheers Kell!
#6496 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/10/03 02:48:23
Thank goodness I'll get to release a map with hordes of "Bobs" in it
You evil, evil man.
Haha
#6497 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.27] on 2007/10/03 05:33:30
Also, if you're on Linux, be sure to direct your self-righteous fury blah blah blah...
... at their fanboys, or at people who overuse the word "gay" on internet forums in relation to other people's choice of OS or software license, or _their_ fanboys, and be sure to bring this up in completely unrelated threads, months later, because that makes you look really smart.
CDOGS is a 1996 DOS game, yeah, but there's also an SDL version for gay OSes and probably even Windows.
SDL!
#6498 posted by msd [24.98.201.149] on 2007/10/03 09:24:24
Why don't people use Allegro? You have to include the same DLL over and over again with SDL.
New Travail Models
#6499 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/10/03 13:30:13
The new travail models only have changed lighting - they needed to have lighting style 15, which wasn't affected by environmental light changes. The geometry was never altered, and the code in the current version of quoth and current version of travail both have the same sizes and origins. I'd check to see if the difference is in the fgd, I remember the same issue used to exist in standard quake fgds, before someone posted a fix.
Sounds
#6500 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.194.24] on 2007/10/03 13:39:11
I have some stuff I'd like to use for an original soundtrack for my new level.
What kind of file does the sound have to be?
Is there any magic conversion software I might like to be aware of?
Light Options (For Ricky)
#6501 posted by aguirRe [212.151.14.218] on 2007/10/03 20:02:13
I recommend always using -fast -soft -gate 1 even for release builds, as the quality loss due to the speed options is negligible. Just add -extra4 for the quality (and slower processing time).
-sunlight 0 will turn off sunlight, even if it's written in worldspawn and you can use this to speed up process while tweaking indoor lighting.
-nolight turns off all non-ambient lights and you can use this while tweaking outdoor lighting, e.g. while finding a good sunlight angle and intensity.
In big maps with many lights, this can make a huge difference in turnaround time. For more details, please see the Light readme where all this and more is explained.
Uh...
#6502 posted by Drew [66.79.240.135] on 2007/10/04 06:28:54
** ERROR 42: Didn't split the polygon in SubdivideFace near (2956 912 -1024), pipes
this just halted progress on my Speedmap.Can anyone help me?
Drew
#6503 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2007/10/04 10:52:40
"SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (x y z), texture"
One or more textures are scaled too small on a face. Find face and increase scale.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
Thanks!
#6504 posted by Frib [66.79.240.135] on 2007/10/04 17:05:20
I think I know where it is...
...yep!
#6505 posted by Drew [66.79.240.135] on 2007/10/04 17:08:39
that was easier than I thought!
Oh...
#6506 posted by M. [81.219.236.138] on 2007/10/06 12:50:20
I was looking for a mapping tricks as adding models to maps and other cool tricks but I have'nt found anything... anyone have something like that?
Try
#6507 posted by ijed [200.112.83.39] on 2007/10/06 16:58:12
The 'Teaching old progs new tricks' thread - there's a hack that lets you spawn models in a map, but it doesn't work too well because the model is offset. Aside from that Nehahra lets you spawn models in a map.
Ijed
#6508 posted by M. [81.219.236.138] on 2007/10/06 17:04:23
thanks a lot :)
?
#6509 posted by M. [81.219.236.138] on 2007/10/06 17:32:52
I can't find it :(
!
#6510 posted by M., [81.219.236.138] on 2007/10/06 18:25:12
ok, I got it :>
#6511 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2007/10/08 20:56:28
Is there a reason why vertex editing in gtkradiant is like pulling teeth?
Yes
#6512 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/10/08 23:09:47
It's because pulling teeth is unpleasant.
There was this old lady from Karelia living in the same apartment complex area. She sometimes took care of kids etc, everyone knew her. I was playing at the yard, a nanny was looking after us. I was maybe four and had a tooth that was loose. I told this Karelian granny about it and she, being the vigorous person that she was, promptly ripped it out. I remember spitting blood for a long while after that. The snow turned red. Fascinating.
That Was
#6513 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2007/10/09 00:40:49
... nice of her?
Now That Was Good Story
#6514 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.50] on 2007/10/09 04:35:48
I can see her yelling, 'get up and walk it off!'
@wrath
#6515 posted by pjw [66.168.26.186] on 2007/10/09 05:06:30
Use 2/3 point clipping instead. It actually works and doesn't shit the bed regularly like vertex pulling in radiant does.
#6516 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2007/10/09 18:52:12
pjw,
Use the what now?
Heh.
#6517 posted by pjw [67.129.250.254] on 2007/10/09 19:42:21
I'm at work now and don't have radiant installed here, but there should be a button/command to toggle clipping mode. Maybe a button at the top that looks like 3 points connected together?
Clipping mode allows you to define a clip plane (using either two or three points, so it can be tilted on whatever axes) and use it to clip brushes (as you would clip paper with a pair of scissors). You can discard either part or keep both.
This basically allows you to come up with whatever shape/angle you wish without resorting to vert manipulation, which is crap in radiant when it comes to brushes (as you well know).
Ugh
#6518 posted by RickyT23 [86.141.23.123] on 2007/10/09 20:24:49
Vis is not nice. Im running it with -numpercent, base went from 1 to 100, then it says Full. So far it just says Full. Dont like it! Will Full go from 1 - 100 in the same ways as Base did?
#6519 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2007/10/09 20:39:18
pjw,
Oh, that kind of clipping. The 2/3 thing threw me at first. Right. I'll try that. Thanks.
Worldcraft 1.6
#6520 posted by Orl [70.17.46.174] on 2007/10/09 22:02:14
While mapping yesterday, I did something and I don't know how to change it back. My mouse cursor became a hand within WC and all it does is scroll through the 2d views. I cant zoom in, nor add any brushes or entities. I'm stuck in this "scroll" mode. I have never had this happen to me before, and I don't know how to get rid of it. I've tried reinstalling WC to no avail. Anybody have a solution?
Orl
#6521 posted by Ankh [82.160.155.18] on 2007/10/09 22:23:36
After checking in Hammer it seems that your space key is stuck somehow :P
Ankh
#6522 posted by Orl [70.17.46.174] on 2007/10/09 22:34:51
Well, that was weird. Right after I posted here, I loaded up WC and the problem was gone. I'm almost positive my space bar wasn't stuck in any way. But at least now I know what to do if it happens again. Thanks.
Vis
#6523 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/09 22:42:13
quake vising goes through 2 'passes'. the first, base vis is what you get when you do the -quick. the full is the actual vising... it'll go up to 100 *eventually*.
depending on the level, it can take anywhere from 10 minutes to uh...2 or 3 weeks.
Yeah, Eventually...
#6524 posted by RickyT23 [86.141.23.123] on 2007/10/09 23:02:30
When its done, I'll post my new level. Eventually. How long did it take to do the Warpspasm levels?
I Ran Em
#6525 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/09 23:08:13
Overnight. Some didn't take too long, a handful of hours (5-10). The worst was Sealed City, because the vis blocking was so bad.
RickyT23
#6526 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/10 08:01:32
CDA took 1248 hours... I hope you do not have wide open area into your map ;)
He He
#6527 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/10 17:43:57
Its one big wide open area with v. tall buildings!! Still going, hasnt said 1 percent yet...
Make Sure
#6528 posted by aguirRe [212.151.15.184] on 2007/10/10 19:48:24
you haven't blocked the vis console window with mouse or keyboard and verify that vis is still hogging the cpu.
Can
#6529 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/10 23:01:43
You set windows priority for vis to high?
I think we talked about this but I can't remember.
I think it was the obvious answer - 'you can, but it's risky'.
Just Use
#6530 posted by aguirRe [212.151.12.73] on 2007/10/11 02:10:34
option -priority #, where 0=below, 1=normal (default) and 2=above. This only affects thread priority and is not risky in any way. You're probably thinking of setting process priority to High or even Realtime, which is usually a very bad idea.
In any case, you typically don't raise the priority for a cpu-intensive app like vis, you lower it so other apps can run.
This way you can vis in the background while playing a game or whatever and as soon you stop keeping the cpu busy, vis will return to full power.
You typically raise priority for apps that normally block a lot on I/O operations (disk/network etc) like copy-processes or similar. Then they will operate faster if you also have a cpu-intensive app running at normal priority.
Priority is not a gas pedal ...
Erm
#6531 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/11 10:58:02
Vis sucks.
I have gotten to the point where I have discovered the autosave feature! Yippee! It has only failed on me once so far (AAARRGH!!).
Like it because if I want to know how much progress has been made, if I restart the computer, or stop the app, then restart it again (from worldcraft prompt, with only vis selected) when vis starts (as long as it doesnt fail to read the saved vis file) it tells me roughly how much progress has been made!
I think Im pushing 13-14 percent!!!
Question:
Does the process window get to a point where it nolonger has any room for more text?
It often looks as if it has frozen!
Tried '-priority 2' but got bored with it (its pretty boring anyway).
What do you mean 'make sure you havent blocked the vis console window with mouse or keyboard'. How do you make sure vis is still hogging the cpu without pressing ctrl,alt and delete? Or is that what you would have me do?
Also, using XP, I always run compile tools from Worldcraft. Not being a programmer or anything, is there another way of running them?
If anyone can answer any of these questions (AguirRe), say something funny or say something to boost morale, it would be much appreciated!
Hehe
#6532 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.5] on 2007/10/11 12:04:03
It's not VIS that sucks, it's mapping in a way that does not work well with Quake/VIS.
Yes
#6533 posted by negke [82.83.33.86] on 2007/10/11 13:08:53
Large open areas with little vis blocking always result in long processing times. Sometimes it even takes days to get one single portal done.
Don't run vis from Worldcraft, run it in the command prompt with -v. You can break the process with ctrl+c to resume it later (safer than restarting the computer).
Ricky
#6534 posted by aguirRe [212.151.13.26] on 2007/10/11 15:23:12
So many questions ... Like neg!ke says, don't run any tools from inside WC, its console window is not very good. Use a std command prompt "dos-box" for builds.
If you're using the AutoSave feature to see the vis progress, something's seriously wrong. Don't do that, you'll just slow down the vis operation by constantly restarting it. You'll get plenty of progress info while it runs if you haven't disabled it.
In a real console window, you can block the process by e.g. starting to select text with the mouse, pressing Pause or other user input. Use Task Manager in XP to see that the vis process is using almost 100% of the cpu.
Finally, if you've only reached 13-14% after running for a long time, you're looking at ages to reach 100%. The fullvis process almost always slows down *very* much in the later stages and the final few percent can easily take 50-90% of the total time. Ask JPL for details if you want to know more about vis patience ...
You'll probably have to clean up your map if you want to be able to fullvis it before the year 3000AD. Remove/simplify/func_wall brush details, add proper vis-blocking, split map etc.
Note
#6535 posted by Lunaran [71.90.129.120] on 2007/10/11 15:34:54
Use a std command prompt "dos-box" for builds.
he means the windows command prompt. don't go installing DosBox and trying to compile in it.
Does Vis
#6536 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/10/11 18:52:35
support two cores?
Because Cpu gets never over 60% when vising
Ricky
#6537 posted by aguirRe [212.105.26.124] on 2007/10/11 19:06:07
It just occurred to me; you seem to be using the -numpercent option in WC's console. That won't work, that's probably why you're getting weird printouts. I'd suggest using default settings or better, stop running tools from inside WC.
Rudl
#6538 posted by aguirRe [212.105.26.124] on 2007/10/11 19:07:36
No, vis is single-threaded.
JPL
#6539 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/10/12 05:26:55
CDA really took 50 days to vis? shut up!
Inertia
#6540 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 08:39:13
Yes, it took exactly 1218 hours = 50 days and 18 hours of full vising... so when some people says I'm not patient... believe me, I know what is to be patient ;)
The big issue of CDA is the wide open area with bunch of brushes, and the terrain... I had several choppiness issue that forced me to put the latest fight under ground... otherwize it would not have been playable, even with aguirRe's engine (choppy as well)...
Well, I will not make the same mistake twice :P
A Better Question Is
#6541 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/10/12 13:42:20
is it worth even vising if everything's visible anyway. Does it reduce the visible faces much? CDA was unplayable on my old comp anyway. What are the differences in r_speeds between unvised, fastvised and level 4 vised?
Well
#6542 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 14:28:40
if everything is visible, I don't think fullvis or fastvising a map makes aby differences... The thing that make the difference are the "donnut" vis blockers, or something equivalent...
And concerning the use of level 4, sincerely I don't know...
But all of that is obvious and I guess everybody already knew it ;)
Yeahyeah
#6543 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/10/12 14:39:58
but I meant CDA for example. Was it really worth vising it? Did it help much after -fast? Actual numbers...
Bambuz
#6544 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 15:07:07
Well, in the wide open area, I guess it didn't helped much at all... while I cannot confirm it as I didn't have any idea of the final result (i.e difference of face numbers between fast and full vis...)
And I will not try to make the test just to obtain the results difference... The only good point is that aguirRe's vid tool is bug free for sure ;)
Bambuz
#6545 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 15:07:08
Well, in the wide open area, I guess it didn't helped much at all... while I cannot confirm it as I didn't have any idea of the final result (i.e difference of face numbers between fast and full vis...)
And I will not try to make the test just to obtain the results difference... The only good point is that aguirRe's vid tool is bug free for sure ;)
Fucking Double Post
#6546 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 15:07:33
Sorry for that :P
Well
#6547 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/12 16:14:49
a few func_walls and an XP Home Command Prompt later, and its been going for about 21 hours, says its 30% done, I think it says thats 20% of the time its gonna take, if that makes sense. At this rate it should be out Monday. Maybe. So thanks for the help!! Command prompt IS A LOT MORE STABLE THAT WC PROCESS WINDOW!
I've always been a click person, using a MSDos command prompt is something I've always managed to avoid. I've clicked on Wolf3D, Doom, Quake, Duke3D, Heretic...
Luckily I know to type 'cd c:\vis', then 'vis -level 4 -verbose sickhill'. Or else I'd be really scuppered, wouldnt I?
Just out of curiosity, what is CDA you all keep talking about? Which map is that?
RickyT23
#6548 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/12 16:27:11
I think it says thats 20% of the time its gonna take, if that makes sense. At this rate it should be out Monday.
Err, I would not like to discourage you, but, as aguirRe's said, vis process is slower and slower during the runtime process (i.e: percent value will not increase faster even if you have vis blockers somewhere...) so, be prepared to wait longer than by next monday...
According to my humble experience, when the percent value reach 50%, generally it cost twice the time already spent.... so you are far away to see a finished fullvis process....
Wait and see: patience is welcome there ;)
CDA FastVis
#6549 posted by aguirRe [212.151.12.140] on 2007/10/12 16:27:53
It makes a big difference already in the main room, but if nothing else it makes the end arena a lot better. Otherwise the whole map would be in view while fighting the big beasts.
I just made a quick fastvis and tried running it in Fitz on Hard, there were packet overflow almost immediately and then continuosly even with all the entity saving tricks in the progs.
So I'd say it was well worth it, although it could probably have been made easier with map adjustments.
Hence The Maybe.
#6550 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/12 16:31:38
Im happier with it now though. Atleast I can see whats going on.
I had some stuff - a monument with 3 spheres, a fork-lift truck, some decorative window frames. By turning them into func_walls I dropped the vis leafs from 11000 odd to 8087!
I think that made a big difference.
I tell you though, the sound of the fan over my processor is doing my nut!
Ricky
#6551 posted by aguirRe [212.151.12.140] on 2007/10/12 16:34:45
Good that vis works better now.
You can find JPL's CDA review+map here: http://underworld.planetquake.game...
Which Map Is CDA?
#6552 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/12 16:34:59
Im curious. JPL made it right? AguirRe has the source (just for his own personal devilment I'm sure).
What exactly is CDA an abreviation of?
Aahh!
#6553 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.196] on 2007/10/12 16:40:08
Castle of the Dark Ages! Looks good. Cant be arsed with fileplanet though! I'll look for it elsewhere...
Try Quaddicted
#6554 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/12 17:59:07
And for reference Google some of the ancient vis explanations on good blocking and how to have big open areas without murdering vis time.
There's a load of material out there, but it'll take some searching.
Rickyt23
#6555 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/10/12 18:02:24
Visit my website ;) You'll get all my maps then.
CDA
#6556 posted by Lunaran [71.90.129.120] on 2007/10/14 17:59:44
Yes, it took exactly 1218 hours = 50 days and 18 hours of full vising...
isn't that the one where you took some buildings and took some trisouped terrain and put them together by carving one out of the other, or was that someone else?
I still get the night sweats about that story.
Lun
#6557 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/10/14 18:37:53
iirc that was Mike Woodham, who used someone else's map as a carving tool.
*shudder*
Lunaran.
#6558 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/10/14 19:04:24
This one: http://underworld.planetquake.game...
Terrain + Medieval stuff..
#6559 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/14 20:26:10
you know what could have been interesting in that map would be to actually just use a custom quake farclip setting and fog without any vis (or just fast vis).
would that work?
#6560 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/14 20:26:11
you know what could have been interesting in that map would be to actually just use a custom quake farclip setting and fog without any vis (or just fast vis).
would that work?
Ah
#6561 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/14 20:26:21
god damn. :(
He He He
#6562 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.118] on 2007/10/14 20:29:27
is that my Halloween themed lava in those shots JPL? It's been awhile, I've forgotten about that texture.
#6563 posted by ijed [190.20.107.236] on 2007/10/14 20:36:47
Close farclip and fog - like Turok.
Well
#6564 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/14 20:39:25
the reason i ask is because i don't know if quake stops paying attention to objects outside of the farclip or only stops drawing them. you might get packet overflow even if the objects aren't being drawn on screen.
Necros / HT
#6565 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/10/14 20:53:01
necros: I don't know about farclip / fog use in Quake.. maybe some custom engine is using this feature.
HT: No, all textures are from DKT3, it is not your lava texture for sure ;)
#6566 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/14 22:30:54
in fitzquake:
fog 0.5 0.326 0.326 0.326
gl_farclip 768
for example. the fog blends almost seemlessly with the void colour. in engines like aguires where you can set the void colour, you could then set whatever fog colour you want to match the void colour.
Void Color?
#6567 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/10/15 00:05:10
is "r_clearcolor #" in fitzquake, where # corresponds to the palette index
#6568 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/15 01:07:01
oh can you do it in fitz too? cause aguire's engine doesn't have gl_farclip (i think metl added that himself?)
so you could do exactly what i said in fitzquake then. ^_^
Farclip
#6569 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/10/15 01:37:41
Note: fitzquake doesn't use the farclip plane to do any visibility culling, so you probably won't get much of a speedup from it. Unless the video card itself discards the polygons more quickly, in which case you might get a speedup on the hardware side.
#6570 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/15 07:20:41
aww, oh well. :)
Sky Values
#6571 posted by drew [66.79.224.1] on 2007/10/16 03:09:49
what is a good (yaw pitch roll) value for skylight?
Drew
#6572 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/10/16 08:07:25
Depends on skybox's sun position, but generally yaw is an angle in 0-360 degree range, pitch is a negative value in -90 0 range and roll is null
Just test it, as example by default I use 45, -45, 0 is make the sun rising at 45 degrees on xy plan, with a incidence angle of 45 degree... It can be tuned if you want more/less shadows, more/less angles, etc...
Link?
#6573 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.95] on 2007/10/19 19:50:48
What's that site again where there are lots of textures ripped from games like Kingpin, Jedi Knight etc? I forgot the link.
Ah Bloody Hell
#6574 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.95] on 2007/10/19 19:55:56
http://downloads.kingpinforever.co...
Huh
#6575 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/19 23:20:12
I've already got the Kingpin set, and was pretty sure I got it from Qauddicted . . .
Even Though The Url Says Kingpin
#6576 posted by negke [82.82.160.114] on 2007/10/19 23:46:26
there are texture sets from several other games as well. No wads but images (tgas and so on).
Yes
#6577 posted by Spirit [213.39.187.81] on 2007/10/20 09:35:28
but I found out they are rather ugly quality. Apparently all downscaled to 256x256 and somehow the colors look bad too. :(
Undying.wad
#6578 posted by negke [82.82.179.29] on 2007/10/20 11:21:44
http://shub-hub.com/files/textures...
I don't know if textures are missing from it as the overall count is fairly low (~200). Most of them look good though. Unusual scale, yeah. Many 256*256 or 128*256 ones.
Link
#6579 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2007/10/21 03:10:16
you didn't mean Wadfather?
http://wadfather.planethalflife.ga...
-watervis
#6580 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/10/22 17:42:33
Well just wanted to say that my problem in HexenII (post #6177) is fixed.
Just in the rare case that someone will start a hexen2 map, It is necessary to add a -watervis command to qbsp.exe.
Hexen2 tools are really the worst documented tools, there is NO satisfying documentation avilable
Does Anybody
#6581 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/23 11:43:56
Know how to make the textures and 3D views a little brighter in WC 3.3?
BTW I changed to WC 3.3 yesterday and it is great, I was reluctant to change but its just as easy to use (if not easier) and the texture alignment bugs I was experiencing with 1.6 are all fixed!
Blood Splats
#6582 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/26 17:06:11
I used to have a 'mod' a long time ago, when I was about 15 years old and all it was was a progs file. All it did was produce zombie gibs (the ones they hurl I think) which would follow the trajectory of bullets fired into enemies and stick to walls behind, then slowly slide down to the ground, producing good old quake blood particles the whole time. I think it was really cool, but I cant find it anywhere and I wouldnt know where to start in programming it. Does anyone know where I could find such a file, or have the time to 'knock one together'?
Uhm...
#6583 posted by Drew [216.168.107.223] on 2007/10/28 17:07:56
When did The Forge go down?
It Has Not
#6584 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/10/29 14:50:50
It just does that sometimes. A pain in the butt when you need to consult the site but can't.
Blash
#6585 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/10/29 17:32:28
I downloaded The Reckoning - the Q2 mission pack - textures (from Quaddicted) but they can't seem to work (wrong format or something) with WC 3.3.
It'd be even easier if I were able to rip the exact set of textures Lunaran used in Lunsp1.
I Think
#6586 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/29 18:08:43
WC 3.3 has to convert WADs to HLWads in order to use them. If you are using the Quakeadapter package, theres some sort of program with it that automatically converts them for you, located in the program files\worldcraft folder.
Maybe this helps?
Alternatively get a program that rips mips from bsps and converts them into WADs, although WC 3.3 may still have to convert to HLwad to use them. Are you using the Quakeadapter package with 3.3?
WC3.3
#6587 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/29 21:43:17
Will only work for Q1 with the Quakeadapter, unless you make your own version. To rip a wad from a bsp use TexMex, though you'll still have to convert it to use with 3.3, and if its bigger than 1024 textures then it won't load at all; you'll have to split it up.
The wads that TexMex creates are automatically usable for any Q1 specific editor - 3.3 was locked for HL1, which is why you need the adapter.
Da
#6588 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/10/29 21:57:45
Yeah, Q1 is the game I was talking about and yeah, Ricky, I found the texture converter and converted them to hlwads.
Thanks.
#6589 posted by drew [216.168.107.223] on 2007/10/30 06:22:23
Does anyone have scrolling rock/grass textures?
Also
#6590 posted by Drew [216.168.107.223] on 2007/10/30 06:33:12
Does anyone know where I can find Biffs new improved IDbase textures?
Scrolling?
#6591 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/30 14:03:22
You mean tiling? All should be if they're made for games. In both cases try Quaddicted;
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Not sure if it has what you want, but its hard to imagine it not being there.
#6592 posted by Drew [66.79.234.14] on 2007/10/30 17:44:43
I meant textures that give the illusion they're scrolling, like the waterfall textures (+1_fall etc).
#6593 posted by gibbie [128.183.109.101] on 2007/10/30 18:18:01
i dont think those exist. but you can easily make them yourself using, e.g., using offset in photoshop.
byeee
Drew
#6594 posted by negke [82.83.23.43] on 2007/10/30 21:01:19
Too much Doom? Linedef tag 48!
BspEditor Update
#6595 posted by Mike Woodham [81.154.10.184] on 2007/10/30 23:08:42
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/
Support for high-res textures and sky_boxes.
Dropped support for BspBuild (boo... ) so I won't be upgrading.
Speaking Of Hi-Res Textures...
#6596 posted by generic [71.1.70.117] on 2007/10/30 23:57:56
Are there any tutorials on using 24-bit TGA's in Quake? It seems like some refuse to tile correctly.
If not, how do disable/override using 24-bit textures in FitzQuake?
Spanks!
#6597 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/10/31 00:00:50
3 point clipper looks cooler in bsp than radiant. :(
Origin Brushes
#6598 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/10/31 19:42:06
Anyone know of a compiler for Quake 1 that supports origin brushes? There's talk on the inside3d forums of one existing, so it'd be great to have a copy.
Preach:
#6599 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/11/01 00:18:44
that would be great to have if it exists, and I think it is at least possible that origin brushes could be supported, but I don't know offhand whether the quakec func_rotate_* code would have to modified to work correctly with it.
Rotate_object
#6600 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/01 01:22:39
At the moment a rotate_object with a target uses the matching target entity as it's origin vector. Then all the brushes are moved that distance in the opposite direction so that they line up again. That's the same effect as the origin brush would have, so the hipnotic code would work straight away. Still might be worth revisiting that code though...
#6601 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/11/01 02:13:49
That's the same effect as the origin brush would have
Well it's not just the actual pivot point that is important. It's also the default placement of the brushmodel in the world, which affects things like texture alignment and dynamic lights -- both of which are incorrect the way we currently do rotating brushes.
If Someone
#6602 posted by ijed [190.20.106.126] on 2007/11/01 02:28:51
Could find the time to streamline / rebuild from scratch the shitty rotating code it'd be nice.
It doesn't have to be easy to build a rotating object, but it should be possible in, say, a speedmapping session.
I suppose AguirRe is the one to ask about compiler compatibility.
Ah
#6603 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/01 11:09:57
I see what you mean now. In terms of default placement when you load the map, it'll load in the right place, you wouldn't have to fiddle with the origin any. In terms of whether the texture alignment/lighting would be correct, that would really depend on how it was written. The most straightforward way of doing it would just use the hipnotic code straight away, except it would calculate the origin value based on the origin brush instead of the targeted entity. So it'd have the same problems. You could rewrite the whole thing - and if you were bothered to do that you might as well add origin brush support at the same time. But I wouldn't want to...
Aw . . .
#6604 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/01 13:54:28
Heheh ;)
I Know, But I'm Allergic To Programming
#6605 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/02 12:14:02
Oops Wrong Post
#6606 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/02 12:14:20
Say...
#6607 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2007/11/03 05:45:48
I need a Q1monster that can walk, but also swim.
Would this be a holdup to the walkmonster_start code?
I mean, I can't put both in a qc-script?
Or something like a fly/walk monster?
.
#6608 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2007/11/03 21:52:51
kell and i toyed with this for a bit and it's definatly possible.
i would recommend you make a new ai_run function. in it, you need to check the pointcontents() of some point (i used the origin) in the monster to check every frame if it is in a liquid or not.
if it's not in the water, you need to remove the FL_SWIM flag (and likewise, add it if it's IN water). the FL_SWIM flag is what lets fish and stuff move around in water. apart from that, there's very little that needs to be changed, although i'd recommend adding a new trigger_jump type brush entity to help the monster make the transition between water and land, unless you want to build ramps all the time.
. . .
#6609 posted by ijed [190.20.95.106] on 2007/11/04 16:29:10
Sounds like the Nehahra Jagger.
Thanks
#6610 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2007/11/04 18:49:18
for your answer, necros. Fact is my qc knowhow isn't bigger than a mouse, and even that I could make hardly go walking.
If I look at the ai_run function I haven't a clue where to begin.
There's a FL_SWIM flag in the monsters.qc where the options for moving monsters is specified.
So I guess making a new ai_run function isn't enough.
JPL Or Anyone...
#6611 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/05 14:23:41
What is the best way of doing coloured lights?
What light util is best (does AguirRe's support coloured lights?)?
To my understanding a light ent needs to have the key;
'_color'
with a value of something like
'255 0 0' - pure red
'0 255 0' - pure green
'0 0 255' - pure blue
Fitzquake is a good engine to use? Any others?
I have tried experimenting but when used a method like the one described above, Darkplaces seemed to show the lights as being rather ugly incorrect 'rainbow' type effects?!!
What am I doing wrong?
Note - I am aware that there are supposedly two types of bsp coloured light info files - a bsp30(?) with the info stored within the file, and a 'lit' file which would go alongside a bsp29(?), and that bsp29(?) is compatible with non-coloured light supporting engines.
This is what I know (or what I think I know), any help mucho appreciatado!
RickyT23
#6612 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/05 17:00:29
The field you are adding are correct (i.e _color <R> <G> , R/G/B values in 0-255 range)
Also, try to be as smooth as possible: I mean that strong colors generally kills the map, giving it ugly rendering.
You also need a light tool that generates .lit file (like Tyrann's light tool as example: check out http://www.disenchant.net/utils.ht... )
OTOH FitzQuake supports colored lightning, aguirRe's engine doesn't. you just need to put both .bsp and .lit file in the map directiry, and it is done...
Concerning DarkPlace, AFAIK it supports colored lights, but needs .bsp file using bsp30 format, and bsp29 + .lit file are not correctly handled..
On my side, I genrally use .bsp in bsp29 format with its .lit file: it can be independently loaded on different engine that support (or not) colored ligths... and I don't use DarkPlace at all: it sucks IMHO... just a question of taste... and FitzQuake is the reference engine here... please be "corporate" :P
OMG
#6613 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/05 17:01:31
I completly forgot that <bold> </bold> story... gasp :(
Hmmm..
#6614 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/05 17:51:01
I have much experimentation to do later! Thanks for the info - I know it sounds like I already just about knew what I was doing, but for some strange reason I havent managed to successfully create a coloured light yet!!
Its finding the right mix of colours to get a good looking light I guess.
Hmmm, I wander if the map I'm creating will run on fitzquake, cause I know AguirRe's engine will handle big maps, and my map is currently quite big (not as big as The Sickbase though)! I guess thats why you made Five Rivers Land three maps rather than one...
Yellow?
#6615 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/05 17:53:29
How do you get a shade of yellow using RGB configurations??! Green would have to be used with both red and blue I 'spose, but to what degrees?
Not Sure For Quake
#6616 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/05 18:49:49
But typically green would be 0 255 0 and yellow 255 255 0. That should produce very bright colour, so lower the 255's until you get something that looks good.
For Color Choice
#6617 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/05 19:48:17
Just use your prefered image tool (e.g Pals2Go, PSP, Paint, etc..) or this link http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/b... .. ;)
For yellow, I use personally RGB as 255 255 220, sometimes 255 255 200.. Lowering all the fields will pull the color to "grey"... and decrease its strengh actually... It is far better to play with delay and wait value... though...
Let's experiment: this is the best way to go :P
Well..
#6618 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 10:48:07
I experimented some last night, and managed to get some coloured lights working in a small map, but when I put some in my larger map (3mb) tyrlite gives the error message:
"color 0 < 0"
about half way through the total number of faces!
Yes I was using a command prompt. I tried making sure that none of the color values were 0, but that didnt make any difference!!
before that I was getting another error message that said something about a 'stack overflow', something like 'drawskycolor'. Anyone got any clues?
JPL - That website you have linked to is very usefull! Thnx!
RickyT23
#6619 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/06 11:48:54
What is the command prompt you used ?
Just XP Home
#6620 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 12:22:23
standard command prompt (a dos box). Also tried Worldcraft process window with -nocount
Sorry
#6621 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/06 13:20:37
I was refering to the light tool command line you typed in the prompt "DOS" window.. Did you add a -lit option ? What is the light tool you are using BTW ?
Oh, I See...
#6622 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 13:33:20
Tyrlite 0.99e
light -lit -extra <file>
I also have a copy of Tyrlite 0.99c but havent tried it, I wouldnt have thought it would be much different
It says:
lighting face ##### out of 11### (ish)
gets to about 5000ish
then says:
Error
color 0 < 0
RickyT23
#6623 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/06 13:45:28
Maybe you can do several things:
First is to test the light tool without -lit option, to see if it has any effect
Second is to check all your light in the map file (e.g, open the .map file a look for all light entities and their related strenght, wait, delay, _color field description). Maybe something wrong has occured due to a hidden space in a field etc...
Third is to try another light tool that support colored lights: maybe it can come from a bug of tyrlite... but I don't really think it could be that...
Kepp us informed please ;)
Im Gonna Go Try It On My Lunch Break
#6624 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 14:43:01
im gonna try hmap2 (lordhavocs) stuff aswell, although im not sure if it'll work with the color values already in the map cause they gave an example color in readme as '1 0.6 0.4'
Although its supposed to support halflife light ent fields '255 255 255 300' - last figure is 'light' level (brightness). Ill see...
Are there any other color supporting light tools you know of?
AguirRe's Tools
#6625 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 15:49:02
Before I post some shots of 'successfull' tyrlite rendering on my level, I would like to say some things:
AguirRe - your tools rock!
Maybe its because I work too much detail into my maps, but your tools handle them all perfectly where others wont! I get the best looking results with your light tool. Other tools supposedly even offer extra8x8 lighting options, but on my maps they give crappy looking results. Yours (always run with -extra4 -soft) give really good looking results.
Either of your bsp tools compile my maps where others wont, same for your vis!
Its just a shame that you light tool doesnt support coloured lighting. Have you ever considered creating a version of light that does? Im sure it would be the best light tool ever made for Quake!
Tyrlite Problems
#6626 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 16:07:14
First of all I would point out that the bug I reported before still occurrs as before when I use the command
-extra
When I dont it works OK but gives the following effects on solid entities:
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/R...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/R...
Notice also the harsh black areas in the second shot. This sort of effect is continued throughout the map, in certain areas. The first shot shows some func_walls which arent being hit by the colored sunlight cast.
On the other hand areas outside where the sky colour is being cast DO look OK! Anyone got any idea why solid ents are doing this?
Hmap2 (lordhavocs) tool also will light the map if I change the _color values to '1 0.1 0.1' for example, but the weird effect occurs not only on solid ents, but also on some world areas.
For Tyrlite im using '230 40 40' or suchlike.
There's Some
#6627 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.15] on 2007/11/06 16:28:04
pure disco inside them thar crates that's pushing trough!
Disco Crate FTW
#6628 posted by negke [82.83.14.142] on 2007/11/06 16:48:05
Quad, Pent and Envsuit partying the Quake away.
Keep it!
RickyT23
#6629 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/11/06 17:04:23
It is also possible to add -colored to the tyrlite command line: I don't know what is the effect, but I have it on my side... maybe it makes the difference.. though...
Ha Ha!
#6630 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/06 23:18:53
Success!
I added -colored to the command line and at first it wasnt working. I had a corridor in the level with a curved cieling, the corridor also curved round a corner and sloped downwards (I know, I know). I know that the way I was doing it (with six-faced brushes, each face having four edges) was giving me illegal faces, so I made each brush unto four brushes each with four triangular faces, and re-made the corridor using vertex manipulation (pain in the arse). This stopped the corridor from leaking (I had originally boxed it on the outside).
Anyway I dont know if any of this had any bearing on the light tool, but with the command line:
-colored -lit -nocount -extra
(in the worldcraft process window I might add..) it seems to be working (h00ray!!) which is a relief 'cause I was about to either sack off the coloured lighting completely, or change it all round again to accommodate q1rad, as a last resort.
So, thanks JPL for help, and me for persisting!
Ricky
#6631 posted by aguirRe [212.151.11.140] on 2007/11/07 01:14:25
Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad my tools work for you. As for coloured lighting, I'm not very fond of it and it would significantly make the tool more complex and slower, so I have no current plans for it.
As for compiling your maps, try to build sickbase with hmap2 or most other compilers and discover the true meaning of "corrupt bsp" ...
Just To Note...
#6632 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/11/07 08:10:14
regarding colored lights:
In my limited experiments, Darkplaces handled .lit files just fine (contrary to what JPL suggested). Maybe you figured this out already.
Also, I find that colored lighting looks best when it accurately reflects the color of the light that is casting it. What I do is, open the light texture in a graphic editor, and use the color picker tool to select a good value from the center of the light. Then, paste that RGB value into the light entity.
Hope this helps.
Grahf / RickyT23
#6633 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/07 08:27:48
Grahf: About DarkPlace story, I tested this "feature" of bsp29 format + .lit in maybe a very old version... and so I uninstalled it... Well, maybe with a newer version it would rock again.. Or maybe I did a mistake at this time... Anyway, thanks for the clarification ;)
RickyT23: I'm glad I helped you at the end: you finally refined your process.. I'll look forward for your "colored" map :P
And as Grahf suggested, let DarkPlace have a new try to see if the problem is solved..
Colored Lights
#6634 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/07 12:38:20
Fuhquake - Would have worked but wouldnt load the map cause I was using info_notnull 'use' 'OgreGrenadeExplode', with no Ogres in the level yet
Fitzquake - Worked fine.
Darkplaces - Worked fine.
Qrack - Worked fine.
Telejano - Worked too!
Tenebrae - No colours (shitty framerate too!)
Tyrquake - Untested
The map has no gameplay yet (although I have planned a lot of stuff for it, just not yet implemented it!), and I would say that the world is about 1/2 to 2/3 built, so we'll have to see how it pans out when the file is bigger!
AguirRe - I did try the hmap2 suite whilst trying to get the map to work with the coloured lights and you're exactly right - very bad process, bsp was leaking, no vis, lights looked horrible, but I had to try it just as part of the course of tinkering and tweaking.
I notice that your existing light tool has a Tyrlite mode (I tried to run it with -tyrlite95 -lit) which obviously didnt work cause lit files arent supported. You could always make a tool seperately from your existing one, so folks could use either?
I can tell from you engine that you are of the school of thought to 'preserve and not pervert' the Quake experience, so coloured lighting might be and enhancement 'one step too far'.
I mean I dont want to sound like I'm nagging or anything, more just speculating, and I'm not going to keep banging on about it, I just thought it'd be cool!!! :P
Makes me think tho, if Im using a red texture on some of my lights, with a red light, and Quake 'purists' load the level with white light, I wander if they'll mention the red texture as 'looking a little out of place'.
JPL - You ever get people complaining about coloured light usage?
RickyT23
#6635 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/07 13:31:27
You ever get people complaining about coloured light usage?
Unfortunately yes... but only if the color are too "strong", e.g: full red, or full green, etc.. That's why I recommended to rather use "smooth" color values, in order to not "destroy" the texture visual...
Well, afterall it is just a matter of taste...
Keep it up !
RickyT23
#6636 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/07 14:58:49
PLay invein!
One of the best maps that used cloured lights!
In my opinion Coloured light goes very well with white textures.
And in general subtle coloured lights are better.
PLay Invein!...
#6637 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/07 16:11:49
too much trouble than its worth!
In order to play invein with coloured lights, I would have to use Darkplaces.exe OR dpnehahra.exe (which I cant find ANYWHERE), when I run Darkplaces with -nehahra or -game nehahra and then load 'map invein' it crashes with the message
more colours than expected 65472 should be 256
So im sure its great, I've seen the shot with the blood-red fog, but I'll be buggered if I can get it to work!!!
Just
#6638 posted by negke [82.82.163.12] on 2007/11/07 16:18:04
use aguirRe's nehquake engine.
Nope
#6639 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/07 16:37:10
that dont work neither!
gives error cant load models/explode.spr version 2 should be 1 or 32
or something like that.
Besides, that engine doesn't have .lit support does it? Kinda defeats the object of looking at the coloured lights!
The One, The Only
#6640 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.13] on 2007/11/07 16:45:44
RPGSP1 made very good use of colored lights.
Ricky
#6641 posted by aguirRe [212.151.16.200] on 2007/11/07 16:48:47
My NehQuake should definitely wotk with Invein or any other Neh material, it's tailor-made for that.
AFAIK there's no subdirectory in Nehahra that's called models (following your error message), so I'd guess something is wrong with your Neh installation.
But you're right, NehQuake doesn't support static coloured lights, only dynamic ones and coloured fog (which is also used in Invein).
Also, DPNehahra is supplied inside the main Nehahra installation along with the other original exes.
Joequake
#6642 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/07 16:58:39
is the solution
Hmmm
#6643 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/07 17:17:12
Sorry, the error message i gave isnt exactly what it said, I'm not in a position to re-try at the mo ;), I'll tell you what it said l8R.
Your nehquakebjp.zip only contains an exe called glquake (with nehahra icon), other files obviously but only the one exe! Weird really, I was expecting a nehquake.exe or something.
My nehahra.zip only contains nehahra.exe, I downloaded it within the last couple of months!
I have tried the level successfully with the original nehahra.exe, like it but the white lights look OK, very dark in places, like the funky monsters tho!
(rushed message, boss got back, sat with him in office! :-( )
Hm
#6644 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2007/11/07 21:09:01
use aguirRe's nehquake engine.
isn't this windows-only?
/me Inserts The Sheep In Inertia's Rectum To Stop The Bleeding
#6645 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.13] on 2007/11/07 21:48:27
Inertia
#6646 posted by grahf [71.206.185.91] on 2007/11/07 23:26:37
Darkplaces is fully cross-platform, and has similar engine limits to aguirequake.
#6647 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 09:40:37
Joequake should also be able to handle Nehahra
and there is a Linux version avalible too.
I Wouldn't Recommend That
#6648 posted by aguirRe [212.151.14.159] on 2007/11/08 10:28:05
JoeQ is otherwise a pretty nice engine, but it can't handle Nehahra properly:
- You can't play the whole game in one session (not even half), same for SON movie.
- You can't complete the boss map nehahra without massive packet overflows followed by an abort to the console.
- The entire upper area of neh3m3 is just one big packet overflow.
- The Neh cheat codes don't work, you'll have to use std id ones. This also means that you can't use these codes across a JoeQ client and another Neh server.
- The skybox in Invein is invalidly rotated, which is very obvious with the sun and lighting direction (this isn't JoeQ's fault though).
Possibly more that I forgot ...
AguirRe's Tool And Coloured Lights
#6649 posted by Plant [121.45.206.61] on 2007/11/08 10:29:53
Its just a shame that you light tool doesnt support coloured lighting. Have you ever considered creating a version of light that does? Im sure it would be the best light tool ever made for Quake!
There would be nothing stopping you would there, from running another lighting prog, say, tyrlite, to do the coloured light pass - generate the .lit, then run aguirRe's to use any of the other funky stuff you want. Just means running that part of the compile twice, but it's relatively quick isn't it.
OK
#6650 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 10:32:00
The coast is clear;
The error message I get when running Glquake.exe (extracted along with all of the other files in nehquakebjp.zip) along with ivein.bsp is (fanfare...)
Mod_LoadSpriteModel: sprites/explode1.spr32 has wrong version number (2 should be 1 or 32)
Doesnt matter wether I load it using glquake.exe -heapsixe 56000 -nehahra +map invein
or run the .exe and load the map from the console.
Joequake Gives The Same Message
#6651 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 10:36:56
But Nehahra.exe works fine!
Oh And Plant
#6652 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 10:39:22
I didnt know you could do that!!! More experimentation is coming up!!!
#6653 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 10:57:25
Hmm I was able to play nehahra with Joequake.
The endboss too. Yes there is a massive packet overflow.
And as far as I know Qrack has fixed the packet overflow. Tried the testmap with Qrack and there was no packet overflow.
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/f...
Apart from the sky Invein is no problem.
#6654 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 11:00:27
I use joequake only for invein, because of the included lit file.
Well, I'd Take Your Advice But
#6655 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 11:03:53
I get the error message above! Anyone REALLY CLEVER wanna tell me how to fix it?
I maintain Nehahra.exe works OK
Did You
#6656 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 11:07:13
install the progs-update?
#6657 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 11:12:20
You can try to start normal Joequake and type gamedir nehahra in the console
Im Sorry Rudl
#6658 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 11:29:26
I did actually get really excited when you said 'Progs update', and hit myself gently twice on the side of the head. So I found it, and grappled with fileplanet until it was MINE!
I also ran standerd Joequake, and typed 'gamedir nehahra' as you instructed, and the console background changed, but when I type 'map invein', it crashed with the same message!
I dont understand it though - it DOES work with Nehahra.exe. Also is there or is there not a file called DPNehahra.exe? Because I have read documentation that says there is, but I cant find such a file, not on Lordhavocs website, google, planetquake (nehahra) or anywhere!! Its a mystery! This computer is a good speck (1024mb, Dual Core, ATI 128mb, XP Home)
#6659 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 11:40:49
I got the same error when I tried to play invein with
software joequake
Play it with joequake-gl
I Am Using Joequake-gl.exe...
#6660 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 12:12:08
Im glad you have had the same error though (well not really glad, but atleast I know that Im no going mad!!) ;) - Ill try software Joequake, just for the crack!!
Try That
#6661 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 12:27:25
-delete the nehahra\glquake dictionary
-make a backup of your config and delete it
-I can send you my config (if you want)
-download the newest version of JQ, build 1862
start jq-gl again
Ok, Send It To Me
#6662 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 12:31:45
Mail is in the post. I know it sounds a bit desperate, but I'm annoyed cause I should be able to get it to work
Also Strange
#6663 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 12:41:12
is that your console background changes, when you change gamedir ingame joequake usually takes the conback in the joequake\pak0.pak
Do you really have the newest version?
A mail is on the way. it contains a variables.txt
add this in your config after the key bindings and delete the rest
So you can keep your key binding
ERm
#6664 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 12:42:09
Am I supposed to save the file a c:\quake\joequake\config.cfg or what?
NO
#6665 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/11/08 12:45:31
Open your config.cfg in the nehahra dictionary with a txt editor and add the included text after the key bindings
JQ only uses the joequake/config
when you change gamedir ingame
Plant
#6666 posted by aguirRe [212.151.17.205] on 2007/11/08 12:49:35
AFAIK you can't mix light tools like that, the lit file is not self-contained.
I'd guess that the lit file contains offsets directly into the lightdata lump of the bsp, so if you run e.g. my Light after TyrLite, you'll just get psychedelic colour effects in an engine that loads the lit file.
Search QMap thread or Func_ for earlier discussions about this.
Blimey
#6667 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 13:01:15
This is an epic!
Rudl - No joy I'm afraid my man! Just gives the same old message! Thanks anyway tho
AguirRe - Thats a shame. Ill still put it to test later on, but I would assume that you know what you're talking about! ;)
All the more reason for you to make 'AguirRe's super duper lit-file generating modified light tool!' - Its just that you're engine with -extra4 -soft does give really nice rendering. So if it were possible to get Tyrlite to make the .lit and then use your Light to do the rendering it would kick!!
BTW do you have any kind of explanation for the message I report on #6650?
I get it with your Glquake (from nehquakebjp.zip) and Joequake, software and Gl
Ricky
#6668 posted by aguirRe [212.151.17.205] on 2007/11/08 13:19:30
Are you sure you have the big 50MB nehquake.zip from fileplanet via the Nehahra site? As far as I can remember, it contains the old dpnehahra.exe, nehahra.exe (2.67) and nehexe.exe (2.55) engines.
The error message you're reporting now makes a bit more sense, but the spr32 format shouldn't be a problem, all Neh enabled engines can handle that.
I suspect that you somehow have an old nehahra installation that has outdated stuff in it. Otherwise I don't know, I haven't heard anyone having that issue before. Maybe Mindcrime knows what it could be or if anything has changed on FP recently.
I can't d/l the big file to verify what's on FP, it's a several hours job for me. There seems to be another copy at http://qarchive.quakedev.com/?dir=... , but I don't know how they compare.
Btw, you only need the exe from nehquakebjp.zip, the others are source files.
Btw2, the -colored option of TyrLite that seemed to fix your problems, might not be a good idea to use. It sets the bsp30 format according to the readme, which may cause problems for other tools and engines. I'd stick to bsp29+lit.
Yeah
#6669 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 13:33:05
Well, Ill re-download Nehahra, and see if I do have an old version (although I downloaded it within the last 2 or 3 months).
As for the colored thig - I'll try it again tonight without colored, but according to JPL thats what he uses, and I was able to light the map without -colored but it wouldnt let me use -extra.
Maybe I am going mad!!
RickyT23
#6670 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/08 13:42:50
ACtually I use -extra -lit -colored in the Tyrlite command line... and it works perfectly !
Yeah, Thats What Im Saying!!!
#6671 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 13:51:20
I dont know if you read the Tyrlite.txt file, but it says that -colored defaults to bsp 30, so if that were true, the -lit wouldnt work. Which is why I didnt use -colored in the first place. AguirRe has read the readme (Tyrlite.txt) as well, and drew the same conclusion (naturally). However, after your and mine discussion the other day (JPL), I realised that if you DONT type colored, you get weird psychadellic effects like on post #6626, and if I used -extra, Tyrlite crashed! So as you and I both know, you need to use -colored even if you're doing bsp29 format with a -lit file, which directly contradicts the documentation supplied with Tyrlite.
So yes AguirRe, I know why you say NOT to use -colored, but actually it doesnt seem to work with .lit if you DONT use it!!!
In short - JPL I use the same commands, and it does work!!! :)
It Works, I'm Sure, Well, I Think I Am :)
#6672 posted by Plant [121.45.206.61] on 2007/11/08 13:57:04
I just checked it to make sure I wasn't going mad, I've done it before, I made a little test (box) map, compiled it, using tyrlite to make the .lit file, then ran the whole compile process again using your qbsp, vis and light, and the resulting map runs with coloured lighting in tact.
Try Putting A Func_wall In It, And See What Happens...
#6673 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 14:01:14
Plant - I honestly hope you're right, and I'm gonna experiment a bit tonight!! But try a func_wall! (I have a feeling that it will look a bit 'disco').
Rudl/AguirRe - Kick me!
I was using an old version of Nehahra afterall!!!
Now it works fine :P
(what a tool)
Too much mapping has driven me mad, like czg ;)
Oh
#6674 posted by Plant [121.45.206.61] on 2007/11/08 14:03:21
and I use the -lit switch
Mad I Tell You, Mad As A Hatter ...
#6675 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 14:06:43
*_*
Func_wall
#6676 posted by Plant [121.45.206.61] on 2007/11/08 14:40:29
yeah, there could be some funkyness there, but you may be able to get around that?
Sleep time
Plus
#6677 posted by Plant [121.45.206.61] on 2007/11/08 14:43:07
aguirRe is the one to listen to, he would know as well, probably better than anyone what the story is, just consider my ramblings as just that :)
Where's Tyrann When You Need Him!?!?
#6678 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/08 14:51:11
Look Here:
#6679 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/08 16:36:00
http://www.disenchant.net/ and send him an email :P
I Just Tried
#6680 posted by aguirRe [212.151.21.219] on 2007/11/08 19:32:44
to re-light Invein (i.e. keep the lit and then use my Light) and then load it in JoeQuake (refused to load lit - invalid size) and Fitz (psychedelic lightmaps).
So I'm pretty sure it doesn't work.
Yes, It's Prolly Problimatic To Say The Least . . .
#6681 posted by Plant [121.45.227.129] on 2007/11/09 04:13:15
It's been a long time, I did mess around with it once before, thinking about it know, there must have been problems, but it's a long time ago. It does work for me in a little box test map, as far as the colored lighting goes, all looks as it should and everything is in place, until . . . you place things like func_wall's _door's etc, then the func_eee stuff starts to happen, disco, psychedelic lightmaps as mentioned above etc etc.
Oh well, looks like it's just one or the other, sorry RickyT23, wild goose chase.
So I'm pretty sure it doesn't work.
That's good enough for me
Yes
#6682 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 10:03:42
I also discovered the 'truth' last night!
See More Here:
#6683 posted by aguirRe [212.151.11.251] on 2007/11/09 10:07:59
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Well, Its OK
#6684 posted by [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 10:19:11
Until I smash engine limits and only AguirRe's engine will run my map, I'll just stick to Tyrlite!!
Progs.dat - Shambler Lightning
#6685 posted by [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 10:25:40
I have figured out how to make lightning gun lightning which I can put in my level and then trigger to fire (almost) forever, as part of some sort of generator-type-machine, but isnt shambler lightning prettier?
Have been reading through Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks!
How would I change Lightning gun lightning for Shambler lightning?
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
What would I have to change in my info_notnulls?
Oops - Forgot To Login!^^
#6686 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 10:26:45
#6687 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/09 10:54:31
You'd use
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
instead.
The particular function you'd want is CastLightning. Rather than setting "enemy" "1", which would make the lightning shoot at the player, make another info_notnull. Find out the edict number of this info_notnull, say 23, using the 'edicts' command in the console. Then set "enemy" "23" on the lighting shooter.
Be warned, this kind of hack can be hard to pull off when you have skill levels, because if monsters etc. get removed, the entity number of the lightning target can change. One way to avoid this is to ensure that the lightning target is added before any monsters, so nothing can be removed earlier than this entity. The other way to do it is to have three copies of the setup in your editor, one that only appears in easy skill, one for medium and one for hard. Then work out the correct entity number for each skill level.
What If
#6688 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 11:03:53
I edit the .map file using wordpad or notepad and move the entity to the start? Or swap it with the first one? Would that work?
Thnx BTW :)
Hmm
#6689 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/09 11:29:54
The first way would certainly work, except that you'd have to do this each time, which would be a pain. It's better to make sure that the entities are in order in your editor, which in worldcraft means adding them first - no idea about other editors. I think the latter way of doing it(one version for each skill) is gonna be easier in the long run...
Well
#6690 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 11:48:21
As it happens, I havent put any enemies in the map yet! I think what I'll do is use Weapon Lightning for the mo as a marker type thing, and then right at the end (after all testing and stuff) change it for shambler lightning. Anyhoo, its good to know I've got options here!
Thnx again!!!
The Time Is Now
#6691 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/09 13:44:29
If there's nothing in the map that's gonna get removed by spawnflags yet - that's the perfect time to sort this out! You won't have many entities to look for in your list of edicts, and you won't have to worry about anything getting removed. Just don't delete any entities currently in the map and all should(fingers crossed) continue working in the future. So I'd recommend change it now, get it working, then continue adding monsters etc.
Well
#6692 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/09 14:01:48
I hope so. I mean I'll try it. I dont know much about the transition between an .rmf file and a .map file. If the edicts are assigned roughly in order with the chronology of how entites are placed in an .rmf, then I would see how it would work!
Well
#6693 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/11 14:17:38
I believe that what Im gonna do is make the level to a point where I need some testers, cause that way after I have sorted out the gamepley, I can fix up the lightning using Notepad!!! - Then do it all again for the final version :|
Yes, I believe I have popped my .map-in-Notepad cherry. I see now why its called 'Hacking'
Worldcraft 3.3
Nice GUI and texture alignment stuff, but if you export a .map from an .rmf, then re-load it after a bit of tampering in notepad (or even without any tampering I guess) you lose all of the extra texture alignment info!!
I got the lightning sussed. I moved the targetted info_notnulls to where the first few entities start after all of the world stuff, then use AguirRes engine to look at the edicts, get the number, then change the 'enemy' key appropriately.
I have also discovered how you can clean up a .map file by removing any extra shit you dont need!!!
Worldcraft and notepad dont work in unison very well tho! Worldcraft takes stuff out and adds stuff in like extra keys on import!! So backups have been essential!! - I have to resume building on an un-hacked version. The experiment worked, but I will have to re-do it all again anyway cause I can't resume working on the hacked version :(
Welcome To
#6694 posted by aguirRe [212.151.17.220] on 2007/11/11 15:03:57
.map file mapping ...
Textures
#6695 posted by fred [76.181.189.193] on 2007/11/12 06:31:02
i just downloaded 1.5 gtk radiant and there isnt a textures menu can anyone help me?
Hmm
#6696 posted by Plant [121.45.207.78] on 2007/11/12 06:58:31
I only messed around with 1.5 briefly, I prefer 1.4, but anyway, is it called something else? materials or something maybe? What happens if you press the T key, does that bring up the texture browser?
Press The Letter T
#6697 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.92] on 2007/11/12 06:59:05
and the texture window will come up. Personally, I only use 1.5 for creating prefabs but not for texturing. I hate the new texture methodology here because of the fewer options and the less intuitive set up. Why screw up something that had worked well since QeRadiant?
Ty
#6698 posted by fred [76.181.189.193] on 2007/11/12 07:27:28
ill try that if it dont work ill download 1.4 instead
Fred....
#6699 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/11/12 07:51:08
they moved the texture menu down so that it is part of the texture viewer portion of the screen. (I think)
1.4
#6700 posted by fred [76.181.189.193] on 2007/11/12 16:52:48
can you use 1.4 to create maps for temulous?
Fred,
#6701 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.169] on 2007/11/12 17:10:44
any of the Radiant builds can be used for Quake mapping. This is I do it - I set Radiant for Quake 3 Arena, I convert the Quake wad I'm using to the Targa format and place them in my Quake 3 directory like this:
Quake3/Baseq3/Textures/Armagon
Next, you'll need the definitions file, go to
Quake3/BaseQ3/Scripts folder and replace the entities.def file with the Quake1.def file.
Which you can find here:
http://mortisville.quakedev.com/qu...
(Filezilla is the greatest!)
You'll have everything you need to build a map file. You'll run into a few things that might cause you trouble. Don't bother with the curve
tools, they wont translate over to Quake 1, and Quake 3 texture alignment is more flexible than Q1 native so it is best to experiment in this area to see what you can get away with.
Part I
To Actually Build The Maps
#6702 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.169] on 2007/11/12 17:18:33
download the tools on AquiRe's site,
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
and read the instructions.
When I'm ready to compile a map into a playable bsp file, I make a simple batch file (a text file with a .bat extension) with this sort of text:
Txqbsp -q2map mymap.map
vis -fast mymap
light -extra -soft -fast mymap
The -q2map is a conditional AquiRe added that allows the compiler to convert the Q3 map (Q2 and Q3 are the same format except for the addition of curves) into Quake data during compilation.
Oh, And I Put
#6703 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.169] on 2007/11/12 17:20:58
Maps, wad files and the tools all in the same folder, but you can be more orginized if you want to by including directoy info like:
Txqbsp -q2map maps/mymap.map
and include a line in the Worldtype for you wads like so:
C:\maps\textures\armagon.wad
Walkthrough
#6704 posted by fred [76.181.189.193] on 2007/11/13 01:54:54
does anyone have one for gtk radiant 1.5.0?
I'm Still Using 1.4--never Saw A Reason To Switch.
#6705 posted by pjw [66.188.138.39] on 2007/11/13 07:45:52
But this might help you. Documentation.
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/fil...
Also, here's a tutorial for 1.5 that I found in a few seconds via the magic of Google, but I have no idea if it's worth anything.
http://files.filefront.com/GTKRadi...
Quoth - Lightning
#6706 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/13 10:09:17
I was looking at the Quoth tutorial yesterday and saw that they have facilitated lightning use with the entity trap_fired_lightning (or whatever it is). I may not have got the key name correct whilst sitting here typing but I was definately using the correct one yesterday (it is trap_fired_lightining, isnt it ;). How on earth do you make it fire downwards??!?! It doesn't matter what values I set for 'mangle' or 'angle', it wont fire downwards! Annoying really. I may just end up using the hacks I was gonna use for the lightning anyway, I just thought the Quoth one would be easier!
Any clues?
Ive tried 'mangle' '-90 0 0', '0 -90 0', '-90 -90 -90', Ive tried the same values for 'angle'. None seem to work!!
Rtfm
#6707 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.54] on 2007/11/13 10:58:21
http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/...
Oh Oops
#6708 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.54] on 2007/11/13 10:58:58
Try angle -2
Hmm
#6709 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/13 11:28:29
If it says mangle in the documentation, that should just work straight up. I will take a look at this for quoth2.
OK
#6710 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/13 11:44:11
At the moment, mangle support isn't there, it will be for quoth2. Angles should work, but you'll run into the usual problem of the editor only exporting the yaw component. Your best bet is to add an info_notnull where you want the lightning to strike, give that a "targetname", and give the lightning a "target" key with the same name.
RickyT23
#6711 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/13 14:11:56
mangle is the light direction saying "yaw pitch 0"
angle is the cone angle formed by the light
yaw is in [0:360] range
pitch is in [-90:90] range
As exmaple if you want a light that gives a top-down light cone you need a mangle set to 0 -90 0
But it mainly depends of both editor and light tool you are using
and Preach method is as good as it describes it, except it might consume edicts... but I'm not sure about that point...
and it has been saif, read the documentation of the light tool (if it exist)
Hope it helped.
Lightning Strikes Twice
#6712 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/13 14:49:35
What JPL says is true, but it only applies to lights, not the lightning effect entity - a quoth feature that sends a bolt of lightning like the shambler's in the direction given. I just through I'd mention that targetting spotlights at an entity doesn't have to actually increase the edict count. Just use an info_null, not an info_notnull, as your target, and it will get removed at worldspawn. This is the distinction between an info_null and an info_notnull, the former is removed when the map is loaded, so it should be used for compiler time purposes like targetting spotlights. The info_notnull is not removed, so it's intended use is as a target for things that happen in game, such as lightning bolts.
Hm
#6713 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/13 15:13:38
I had alot of problems with the Quoth1 lightning in warpd. Originally the laser blasters all over the place were going to be lighning, but they all pointed in the seemingly random directions no matter what I did with angles nulls etc.
Possibly the edict load was too high and the lightning was firing at other stuff in the edict list. The random angles were always cardinal directions but never where I wanted. Perhaps its for the best since the blaster traps are at least dodgable.
Shazam!
#6714 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/14 14:13:34
I can't seem to emulate the cardinal directions only bug, hopefully it's gone in quoth2 or it's just a high entity issue like you say. I've made a test map, which suggests that angles works in quoth, but you'll have to edit the entity file if you want more that a simple yaw, because that's all the editor exports. Also targeted lightning works, which looked broken when I checked out the code for quoth2, but I guess wasn't. "mangle" support is not in quoth but will be in quoth2.
Just posting this to say if anyone else has known bugs like this in the current version of quoth, now's the time to e-mail me or leave a message. If you mention it soon, it'll make it into quoth2, but inter-version patches are unlikely for anything but game breaking bugs.
And yeah, the blaster traps worked really well, enough of a threat that you had to take care, but also useful enough to turn against monsters when ammo was low.
Unable To Find
#6715 posted by fred [76.181.189.193] on 2007/11/14 21:47:49
this is what it says when i load 1.5:
Unable to find default tag file C:/Program Files/GtkRadiant 1.5.0/trem.game/shadertags.xml. No tag support. any ideas on how i can fix this?
Hmmm
#6716 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/14 22:39:41
Sorry guys, I've been away for a couple of days - thanks for the cumulative response!
OK - Spirit, erm, yeah, I hope your right!
'angle' '-2'
I'll try that!!!
Preach - Targetting info_notnulls - er, sorry, tried that too, doesnt work (not for me anyway).
BTW, what do you mean by editing the entity file?
As for the editor only exporting the yaw, erm I've been using notepad and a command prompt for tinkering around with this, cause its less stressfull when all your doing is changing key-values!!
Ijed - by the sound of it, you know what I mean!
JPL - easy-to-make misunderstanding! I have loads of spotlights, and lights like
'light' '65'
'wait' '2'
in my current level but as you may have realised by now, I meant lightNing, sorry, not lighting. Although I have been bombarding this thread with questions about lighting and lightning ;)
So in short I can either:
Resort back to using hacks do do the lightning (which did work :) (thanks Preach)
or
Hope 'angle' '-2' works!!!
FYI
#6717 posted by ijed [190.20.81.164] on 2007/11/15 01:17:33
A few things that many don't know when they start but;
-1 is up, -2 down for angle keys.
Putting a -1 in the texture scale (instead of 1) flips the texture in that direction. Useful if you've got a written sign and the letters are backwards because of which way round it is.
Negative trigger hurt's give the player health (even though they still scream / do pain fx). It's also past the normal maxiumum.
There's probably other tricks that aren't quite hacks as well; delays for lights (aguirRe's page) or proper hacks; the Teaching Old Progs .dat thread.
Fred
#6718 posted by pjw [66.188.138.39] on 2007/11/15 01:41:52
I don't know shit about 1.5 or Tremulous, but have you read these instructions and followed them?
http://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/GtkR...
Seems pretty straightforward...don't miss the part about downloading the missing files, etc.
If you have done all that, and things still don't work, I would suggest asking for help in the dedicated Tremulous mapping forum here:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.p...
...and probably read the guide at the top of that forum as well.
Google is your friend.
Weird Angles
#6719 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/15 02:27:05
-1 and -2 for angles won't work in this case. It only works for certain entities, namely ones that call the function SetMoveDir(), which correctly reads the angles. The function is designed for creating a unit vector that the entity uses for movement purposes. The lightning doesn't move, it just gets fired, so it uses the angles as they are set. More like a info_intermission(or it will be once mangle works correctly).
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
is a map that shows the info_notnull way to set it up. So try copying that.
Entity file: There are some quake tools, like adquedit, that will extract an "entity file". This is literally a plain text file containing the entity data from the map. It looks fairly similar to what you'd see in the map file, but without any of the brush lines for brush entities. The added bonus is that you can then import an edited .ent file back into the map with the same program, so you don't have to recompile it. Furthermore, some engines will automatically load an .ent file with the corresponding name of a map, in the same way they'd load a .lit file. Except this time it replaces entity information, not light information.
Diagonal Arches
#6720 posted by KennyJC [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/15 04:25:48
Arches are a pain the arse already, but what I haven't done before is diagonal ones. How do I make it so that it will evenly fit into the space?
Here is a screenshot of where I want a double-arched window.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/61063d95...
How would you do it?
...and While I'm Here...
#6721 posted by KennyJC [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/15 04:27:14
Is there any way to just simply add a vert to a line on a brush? Really made life easy in Doom mapping, so I'm hoping for something similar in Quake, but I can't find any way to just simply add a new vert without having to clip the line.
#6722 posted by gibbie [69.140.12.215] on 2007/11/15 05:23:21
Kenny, regarding diagonal curves, I made this for you: http://www.jbeck.demon.nl/temp/bob...
#6723 posted by gibbie [69.140.12.215] on 2007/11/15 06:00:22
Apparently a lot of people like a 15 degrees rotated version of the simple curve showed in my pic... here is the 24-sided version of it (linked by bambuz): http://e.photos.cx/czg_arch_baseun... Anyways this should give you some ideas how to make curvy stuff the right way.
#6724 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/15 10:47:34
Why not making a simple arch+wall and rotate it by 45°?
Rudl:
#6725 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/11/15 10:48:22
problem with that is that rotating it would result in all the brushes being off-grid and probably have gaps, creases, and overlaps.
#6726 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/15 10:52:40
And why not making a wall and rotate the negative arch by 45° and substract the brushes?
Preach
#6727 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 11:55:13
Im gonna retexture the map you posted and compile it and try it later, but looking at it in notepad I dont understand why the lightning has a 'mangle' and a 'target'. I mean I have tried both of these techniques but not together at the same time, mainly cause the tutorial said to use 'target', 'mangle' or 'angle' - one or the other?!!?
Also you have light entities with:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "400"
"wait" "1"
"mangle" "0 -90 0"
"angle" "70"
"origin" "-96 -88 384"
}
Surely you could ditch the 'angle' and write
"mangle" "70 -90 0"
Hehe - I was thinking I'll probably end up just using the hack for the lightning anyway cause it sounds better!
Also if I had some small func_trains following a path round in a circular shape (a six or eight edged route), I could source some info_notnull lighning in the middle using the CastLightning style entity, and then target the trains using the 'enemy' key... - voila - Half-Life intro style scene!
Rudl
#6728 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.253] on 2007/11/15 12:12:10
Substracting is just as evil as rotating.
Rudl
#6729 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 12:29:57
Just make the shape by eye - all of these fancy tutorials and techniques for making quake-friendly curves dont give true curves anyway. A true circle wouldnt hit a 1*1 grid anywhere (potentially). Use wedge shaped brushes to make the shape, or four-sided brushes with a clipping tool for example. If you can get all of the edges on the grid you can go back and re-make the shape using less brushes.
Oh No - Wait A Mo
#6730 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 13:15:33
If you make the arches as simple as poss, say with two wedges in each corner, rotate by 45 degrees, then use vertex manipulation tool to line the points up on the grid! I dont think you would get any illegal faces because its 45 degrees all the way.
Well
#6731 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/15 13:26:17
The thing about the fancy methods is they let you build it once and know for sure it'll work, letting you copy it throughout the level. Also you can make much more complex shapes, like helix' multiple curves etc. Look at the very first room in czg07c to see a good example.
And it's much cheaper for vis time.
Yeah
#6732 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 13:47:19
I have an .rmf called acurve.rmf full of pre-fabricated curved shapes. Its soo easy to use them for whatever.
The problem is that rudl needs it to be 45 degrees rotated. Thats a pain cause although you could fit all of the points onto a 2*2 grid or whatever, you might find yourself with illegal faces, which worldcraft will render ok, but by the time its been through a Qbsp.exe its gonna distort the shape - you might end up with small gaps between brushes.
#6733 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/11/15 13:57:55
http://files.myopera.com/christig/...
1: Make your arch.
2: Rotate your arch 45 degrees.
3: Scale your arch in the X/Y plane by 1.060606... , OR up so the bounding box is 1.5 times larger than the original arch.
4: Snap to grid 1/4 of what the original arch snapped to (IE if the original was on grid 8, snap to grid 2)
Ricky
#6734 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.205] on 2007/11/15 13:59:11
FYI, angle and mangle keys are not related to each other in a light entity, angle is spot light cone and mangle is spot direction.
Now you seem to be mixing up lighting with lightning ... ;)
Yeah
#6735 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 14:09:18
Dont listen to me anybody - I'm only ever speculating.
Rudl - Listen to czg, im only speculating here but I would say he knows about 50 times more about gemetry than I do. Maybe 52 times more...
AguirRe - I did not know that. So increasing the 'angle' of a light which already has a 'mangle' increases the size of the cone. Whats the default 'angle'?
Gemetry = Geometry
#6736 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/15 14:11:57
I cant even spell the word...
RickyT23
#6737 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/15 14:38:12
Default is 40 degrees in QuArK...
Go experiment.
Shazam Strikes Twice
#6738 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/15 14:52:45
Sorry, the "mangle" key in the info_lightning_targetted isn't needed. I forgot to remove it when adding the "target" key. "target" will always override "mangle", because having a "target" specifies the end point exactly. "mangle", isn't as precise, saying that the endpoint is up to 600 units in this direction, depending on whether you hit something. Not to mention "mangle" doesn't do anything in the current release of quoth anyway.
And yeah, what aguirRe said about the lights. You should only need the knave.wad file to make it compile, worldcraft throws the others in for fun. It's a texture set well worth having.
Czg
#6739 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/15 16:40:43
Thats a cool method it's
exactly
http://www.picupload.net/f-10678b1...
1,060660172...
and it must be built over a square
#6740 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/15 16:53:57
no works with other arches too
Yeah I Realised That After I Hit Submit
#6741 posted by czg [83.253.234.172] on 2007/11/15 17:45:16
I usually put in 1.06060606006 because it's easy to remember and Ogier doesn't do more than four decimals precision anyway.
#6742 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/15 21:09:20
It's possible to set the Number of decimals in Quark.
5 is the dafault value
#6743 posted by gibbie [128.183.109.101] on 2007/11/15 21:20:40
Better to scale by exactly 1.375, then shear to 45 degrees, and then use the clipper. Stuff is guaranteed to stay on grid this way.
Bloody Lightning
#6744 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/16 10:27:51
It seams that Preach's map lightning trap worked, so I tried putting my targetted info_notnulls back in an seeing if it would work. You see its not that it dont work at all, it makes the sound of lightning firing for a second, then nothing. So I took out my lightning ents and info_notnulls and put them in another simple room map with a simple brush trigger_once, and long and behold it worked!!
So now I'm think it something to do with my triggers (trigger_relays) - trigger_counter counts three buttons getting pressed, then fires a relay with a "delay" "1" and a message, then fires another relay with a delay that fires the lightning...?
RickyT23
#6745 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/11/16 10:54:55
Did you enable the light "toggle" field ? If it is not the case, you are not able to switch on/off the light. and BTW, it only work with light of style 0 AFAIK.
Hope it helped
LightNing :)
#6746 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/16 11:14:26
Although if you set two relays you can turn a light on and off in rapid succession, emulating a strobe effect!!! So you could have a stobe light effect which could be activated from a light beginning either on or off!
Arch Scale
#6747 posted by KennyJC [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/17 02:30:41
What is the correct scale and how to scale it?
I rotate it 45 degrees, go into transform, click scale, and add 1.060606 to X and Y cos I read it here, but it doesn't fill the gap.
I am basically using a half cylinder to act as a guide for the arch and need it to fit exactly in the space shown in the screenshot below.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/61063d95...
Anyone?
#6748 posted by gibbie [128.183.109.101] on 2007/11/17 02:45:57
try reading
#6749 posted by KennyJC [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/17 21:37:23
[i]1: Make your arch.
2: Rotate your arch 45 degrees.
3: Scale your arch in the X/Y plane by 1.060606... , OR up so the bounding box is 1.5 times larger than the original arch.
4: Snap to grid 1/4 of what the original arch snapped to (IE if the original was on grid 8, snap to grid 2)[/i]
This was the only reply that made any sense and seemed concise that even a n00b could follow. Problem is I did this and the gap was not filled.
You can either be a prick or tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Make The Starting Arch Larger? Make Your Gap Smaller?
#6750 posted by czg [83.253.234.172] on 2007/11/17 22:52:10
If your gap is x wide (orthogonally), the starting arch needs to be 4x/3 wide.
In your screenshot the gap is 80 units wide, which is not divisible by 3, which is terrible. Make the gap 72 or 96 units wide instead, which would make the starting arch 96 or 128 units wide respectively.
Items.wad
#6751 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/11/18 00:43:31
Does anyone know where I could get a hold of "items.wad"? It's one of the standard id wads I believe but my googling is coming up dry.
Umm Willem
#6752 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/11/18 01:06:07
aren't all the bsp item textures like ammo box in the normal id1 TEXTURES.WAD?
And the mdl models then have their own texes inbuilt.
Item Textures
#6753 posted by negke [82.83.25.4] on 2007/11/18 01:21:48
None of the four standard id wads have those. You can extract them from the item bsps in the paks though.
Just For The Hell Of It
#6754 posted by ijed [190.20.125.62] on 2007/11/18 01:21:48
I extracted them from my own megawad:
http://shub-hub.com/files/gfx/item...
There may be some missing, because I did it manually, but I think that's all. Also, the exlobox's aren't there.
Quaddicted also has a big list of wads, but I didn't want to download the full id wad just to check if its inside there.
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Heh
#6755 posted by ijed [190.20.125.62] on 2007/11/18 01:23:28
Tripping over ourselves to answer that one.
Damn - Missed IT!
#6756 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.252] on 2007/11/18 01:34:35
Also you get funky Items tex in Worldcraft3 combo!!
#6757 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/11/18 11:45:45
Thanks for the responses guys, very much appreciated!
#6758 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/11/18 11:47:51
And to add a little more info ... Yes, Quake101.wad has them in there but I was hoping that the actual items.wad was floating around somewhere. However, extracting and creating a custom wad from that one would be a problem for me because, remember, I'm on a Mac here. ;)
I think I've got it from here. Thanks again!
Differences Betwwen CA/RA/TF/CTF/DM Maps
#6759 posted by deurk [82.66.47.244] on 2007/11/18 14:36:22
Hi dear mappers.
I am in need of knowledge. I am trying to build a tool that would automatically sort maps by "type" based on differences.
I think I understood that ALL of TF maps have a in_tfdetect entity, but is there anything that particular for the other types? CTF/RA/CA/regular DM and such?
Info_tfdetect
#6760 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/11/18 22:31:35
I think is the name.
I think there must be at least some special spawns in RA for the players waiting if not anything else...
I Need Some Testing
#6761 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/22 13:24:33
A spot of Doom style blasting!
Plenty pine-apples, plasma battles and powerups!!
Bspeditor - Undo
#6762 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2007/11/24 21:56:46
How does the undo function in bspeditor work? For now I can only undo few steps. Is there any way to change it?
Fitz / Glquake Issues
#6763 posted by DaZ [84.208.229.31] on 2007/11/28 15:29:42
Hello, Im having an issue with a fresh install of Quake on an older pc (pent 3 with gf3 ti200) where no version of glquake will run.
First both fitzquake and glquake could not find glide2x.dll so I downloaded a copy of that, now both programs will launch but then fall back to the desktop with the error "genport I/O initialization error" and then something about a non existent SST before a final error message telling me to run in the correct colour depth or something...
Anyone got any ideas?
Haha
#6764 posted by Spirit [80.171.20.214] on 2007/11/28 15:43:12
Just delete all the dll files in the Quake directory (unless you installed some more engines who brought their own).
Hehe
#6765 posted by DaZ [84.208.229.31] on 2007/11/28 17:04:18
Yup that worked, thanks Spirit :)
Terrain In 3.3
#6766 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/29 06:19:57
I thought it was just a case of dividing a brush into a mesh of vertices and then dragging the verts around to make some interesting mountains and terrain. But the mesh tool is only in 'Hammer' editor, and even that sucks ass.
Is it just just a case of building up a wall of multiple squares and matching up the corners with each verts are varying heights?
#6767 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/11/29 06:26:42
I guess I was right in that last paragraph. Kinda made something that resembles a rocky wall using that method.
#6768 posted by Willem [71.70.208.231] on 2007/11/29 11:30:15
That's generally the way it was done in Quake engines, yeah. Be aware though that if you put that sort of thing on the floor it can lead to a lot of sticky collision and weird sliding if you're not careful. In my experience, anyway...
I Thought It Was Triangles
#6769 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/29 11:42:19
or 'flat triangular prisms' rather than squares, cause if you have a 'square' face that isnt straight, or on one 'plane', then it is an illegal face. But if you use triangles you cant have an illegal face...
Or am I on a completely different topic?
What I've Found Is
#6770 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/29 13:06:14
It's still possible to make illegal or non-vis (the solid shape is treated as a leak - pointfile line goes right through the middle) prisms. Alot of the time now I use four sided pyramids just to avoid that. Maybe going to extremes but it tends to work.
Typically you get broken collision (player gets stuck on an invisible wall when walking from one direction but not another) when the brushes are misaligned, maybe by 1 or 2 units, making the difference invisible in most editors. Normally you must delete the offending brush and all adjacent and rebuild.
Wierd sliding tends to be caused with how you've built the geometry. Basically you learn what shapes the bbox's of Quake don't like to collide with. Typically it means not making the player walk along acute angles or severe angle changes.
Hmmm
#6771 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/29 13:49:25
I made a tunnel in my current map with a curved cieling - the tunnel also curves round a corner and drops a total of 64 units on the ground too (ughh). If it didnt slope downwards it would be OK, but because it does I had to replace all of the 6 sided brushes which comprised the cieling with FOUR 4-sided pyramids (I think there is some sort of gap in the middle of each group of four) because bsp.exe was building the original set up with gaps between brushes by the time it had corrected all of the illegal faces!
I'm just glad to hear that someone elso uses a similar technique, cause I thought it was probably considered to be shit practise!
Maybe It Is . . .
#6772 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/11/29 14:49:30
The idea is not to have empty spaces in between brushes cos vis'll hack it up.
You can correct it in a drawn out way by turning the curved upper part of the tunnel into func_wall, then putting a real ceiling above that, so the map doesn't leak. The func wall receives collision and light, but doesn't cast shadows. That shouldn't matter because it'll have a false ceiling above, and the ends of the tunnel you can leave as real geometry since they don't curve.
As a further geometry hack / fix you can make the curves func_illusionary, then put simpler clip brushes so the player or monsters (especially fiends) don't get stuck.
As to it being bad practice, I think that's the only way you can make a downwards sloping curve. It makes a hell of a mess and produces some weird bsp errors but it works, sort of.
But Does The Ceiling Need To Slope Down With The Floor?
#6773 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/11/29 14:54:41
Just keep the ceiling level since the floor only drops 64 units, and then there's room above the exit of the tunnel (if there is such a thing) for a little detail of some kind.
I Was Gonna Ask You Directly Czg...
#6774 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/29 15:08:38
Its hard to describe but if you look at the picture below (ignore the disco crates) you can see one exit of the tunnel to the left of the image.
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/R...
As you can see there is a border to the point where the tunnel meets the room, which extends 32 units outwards (constructed with help from the czg curve tutorial, I might add) but there is no similar margin on the other side of the arch, in the tunnel area, so if I kept the cieling horizontal it would look crap because the verticle side edges would be cut off with banana shapes at the tops or something...
Does that make sense, or do I have to show another image?
The way Ive done it is boxed (I know, I know) and to use the 'four four-sided pyramids in place of six sided brush' technique(vertex alingnment in 3.3 on a 1x1 grid (double ugh...). There are no clipping problems though :), and no cracks neither.
But my brain cant think of a better way, can yours?
IMHO That Tunnel Sloping Down Is Overly Complex
#6775 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/11/29 15:44:04
Just keep it straight then have a "porch" of sorts with some steps down.
Or some steps inside the tunnel.
I Think You're Probably Right
#6776 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/29 16:07:42
But seeing as I've already made it, and there are no clipping problems, I think I'll have to keep it!
I think next time I run a build, I'll try removing the box. There was a problem at one point with falling through one of the faces on the verticle wall (I think I had accidentally deleted one of the pyramid brushes), but I fixed that with a brush laid against the wall. The wall in question was the source of the leak also, and I havent tried a build without the box since.
Youre right though, next time I have to address such an issue, my approach will certainly be less of a time consuming one!
Oh My...
#6777 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2007/11/30 03:40:23
...please don't take this the wrong way, but it's probably not a good idea to ask for mapping advice in public and then ignore it. Doing so does nothing to encourage further assistance or bodies for beta testing.
It's only a small section of the map, why not address the issue now, especially if it isn't going to be particularly time consuming.
This is not a flame.
Absolutely
#6778 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/30 11:51:35
Yes I understand what you are saying here.
I have a lot of respect for people like czg, ijed, AguirRe (blimey, who else...), er Preach, spirit, (people I cant off the top of my head remember), er Metlslime, Kell, as well as other people who help to test projects (Trinca, Maxfox, Sielwolf...), who freely give out their time and advice to strangers on the internet, for the good of Quake!
Thanks guys!
You included Distrans!
The context of the qustion I was posing above is as follows:
I had a problem, but solved it on my own terms prior to bringing it up on this thread (I only brought it up really cause somebody else (Kamikaze) was asking about terrain, and the Ijed was going on about using four sided brushes to do complex stuff).
Mr czg is somewhat of an expert when it comes to manipulating geometry in editors (not to mention design, imagination, gameplay, structure, all facets that make a really good mapper really...), so I was asking him if there was a simpler way of creating such geometry than the very amateurish and time-consuming one which I had used.
I interpreted his answer basically as 'no', which doesnt surprise me really, however because I have already spent the time making the tunnel, it seems to me a waste to disguard it now! No disrespect intended ;-P
czg is very right - certainly creating a lot of stuff in a map using the method I have used would be dumb-assed to say the least.
I have considered the unspoken ussue of rspeeds, and feel that compared to other geometry seen in maps, this example isnt really so bad as to remove it for that reason.
Aye...
#6779 posted by distrans [121.44.111.39] on 2007/12/01 07:30:52
...respect
World + Face Align
#6780 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/12/02 02:59:15
Sometimes when I go into Face Properties in WC 3.3, both the world and face align are ticked, and I can't untick either of them.
Basically I was trying to untick world so that the texture being 128x128 would perfectly align and fit the 128x128 brush without having to align it manually by the X & Y axis.
Rotate_object And Lit
#6781 posted by Mechtech [24.162.225.135] on 2007/12/02 14:32:36
Having trouble getting rotate_object to light correctly when using colored lighting. Getting completely dark faces. I have tried hmap2 and tyrlite. I have found if I use tyrlite and move the rotate_object to 0,0,0 I can get faces lit.
Everything looks correct with lit file support turned off. BTW using Quoth and fitzquake080.exe
DUH
#6782 posted by Mechtech [24.162.225.135] on 2007/12/02 18:46:38
Problem solved. Was using wrong values for Tyrlite. Had 0-1,0-1,0-1 not 0-255,0-255,0-255. RTFM i guess. BTW in WC 1.6 adding to the FGD
Find
@baseclass = Light
[
light(integer) : "Brightness" : 200
wait(string) : "Fade distance factor"
]
Add _color(color1) : "RGB color"
Will give you the color picker as in quake2 FGD
Useful
#6783 posted by ijed [190.20.120.248] on 2007/12/02 22:04:26
Thanks for that.
WC
#6784 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/12/06 00:54:02
Anyone here mapped for HL/CS etc.? Because I'm just wondering that, if I were to make something for Half-Life (the original), should I use Worldcraft 3 or Hammer (Steam SDK)?
Hammer
#6785 posted by DaZ [84.208.229.31] on 2007/12/07 12:22:29
I think, it should have a HL1 profile built into it if you have HL1 installed on steam.
Nothing wrong with WC3 but Hammer is more up to date.
Leaks
#6786 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/12/08 06:34:59
Anyone know the command you type into the Quake console which directs you towards holes in the map? Ta.
Kamikaze
#6787 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/12/08 10:39:29
pointfile
And I Forgot To Say...
#6788 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2007/12/08 10:51:36
Read this: http://user.tninet.se/%7Exir870k/t...
;)
Alright: - Quoth - Info/Trigger_command - Centerprint??!?!
#6789 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/12/11 21:58:59
I moved this over to the Mapping Help thread so as not to get told off:
I have got fog working in my level (hooray!!)
BUT
I cant get rid of the centerprint command. It seems that the command itself is set by the "message" key, and aswell as 'firing' the command, it prints the "message" in the center of the screen!! This seems a bit daft to me (or am I missing some spawnflag or something?) because surely the player doesnt need to see some cvar/command!
I am using the fog in a situation where you walk down a blind corridor, and there is a trigger at either end, and as you enter a room the fog is on, and when you leave the other end of the corridor the fog is off. But I dont want to see "fog 0.08 0.5 0.1 0.1" in the middle of the screen, with a sound effect. Any ideas?
Is It Engine
#6790 posted by aguirRe [213.101.74.2] on 2007/12/11 22:33:54
indifferent? I seem to remember this issue, but I don't recall any details.
Center Print
#6791 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/12/12 07:51:58
AFAIK, you have no possibility to remove the message... maybe it will be corrected in Quoth2 :P
It's Alright Guys!
#6792 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/12/12 10:07:26
After a bit more experimentation, I have found the answer:
info_command + trigger_multiple = no certerprint
trigger_command = centerprint!
also:
"target2" "nameofinfo_command" = incorrect command usage console error (not crash)
hehe :D
RickyT23
#6793 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/12/12 11:25:44
Good info: thanks !
Vine Textures?
#6794 posted by Jehar [71.138.27.126] on 2007/12/14 07:32:24
Had anybody ever used a simple vine texture with a background that can easily be made into a transparency? I'm generally unlucky in finding good texture repositories. Drooping vines, or anything close, would be really neet-o.
Jehar
#6795 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2007/12/14 08:12:54
Check http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/ there are tons of texture set there ;)
Make your choice
Mirrored Textures
#6796 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/12/14 20:51:09
For some strange reasons all textures that I apply to surfraces are mirror images (x-axis reversed). Why and how to revert them? (Worldcraft 3.3)
In The Texture Editor Box Thingy
#6797 posted by DaZ [84.208.229.31] on 2007/12/15 00:03:50
where it says texture size x and y, change it to -1 instead of 1, or whatever you have in there, this will reverse the texture on the axis you chose.
Terrain Woes
#6798 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/12/15 05:29:53
This is my first real attempt at terrain in Quake. But it appears that what I do in the editor is not reflected in the game.
For example, here is what I've done as seen from the editor:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/6f4642d4...
And here it is in the game:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8f91108f...
You can see the edges/verts aren't connecting in the same way as they are in the editor.
I'm guessing it's a problem with the compiling tools? This screenshot wasn't VIS'ed, but on a brief previous attempt at terrain, the same thing happened while the map was fully VIS'ed.
Kamikaze
#6799 posted by Blitz [24.19.173.121] on 2007/12/15 10:00:26
You're most likely making concave geometry in the editor and it's being moved to the nearest vertex to make it non-concave upon compile. It used to happen to me when I'd try to skew cylinders to make rocks.
Your best bet is to tri-soup that badboy like this:
http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.ph...
Yeah - That
#6800 posted by ijed [190.20.77.245] on 2007/12/15 16:37:49
Chop it up into Five (wedges) or four sided shapes (pyramids) and you'll be good. For overhanging stuff I'd recommend pyramids, but it's more work to keep everything together. Wedges work best for floors; it's easier to keep them neat and without leaks or holes.
Also, you've moved over from Q2 mapping? Good to see you here.
So Basically..
#6801 posted by KamiKaze [82.11.151.60] on 2007/12/15 19:01:03
These errors have shown up because I was using rectangle brushes?
I think I tried using triangular brushes previously, but found it more difficult. Guess I will need to practice that. I know the method, just a case of trying to get it to look good!
ijed: No, I was into Quake mapping 10 years ago, but never really finished anything. I've made a few maps for Doom2 in the last couple of years but ended up getting frustrated with the limitations, so came back to Quake.
Yes
#6802 posted by bambuz [88.192.64.235] on 2007/12/16 14:48:16
go for wedges, ie a 5 sided brush, bottom and top are triangles. Bottom, top, 3 sides.
A triangular slab so to speak.
Then just always look at the brush from the top, select a the slab's corner vertex/endpoint, both the top and bottom vertex at the same time, and move that unit together. One corner of the slab. You can move it sideways or up and down too.
As long as all the three corner vertical edges of the slab are vertical, it stays as a legal brush where it's convex and all the sides are planes.
I made a pic ages ago but it's lost in some of those pic upload services, maybe searchable in this thread.
Can't Find
#6803 posted by Healton [81.30.186.176] on 2007/12/17 13:50:57
where i can send private message to users?
Luckily
#6804 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.38] on 2007/12/17 13:54:02
You can't. This is a public message board no "communication service". Use e-mail.
Should've Posted In The Site Help Thread...
#6805 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/12/17 15:16:08
...right?
Healton
#6806 posted by Blitz [69.25.132.5] on 2007/12/18 02:24:59
You know you could check the user in question's profile and see if they have their e-mail posted or simply just say who it is you want to contact and someone could probably help you out if it's a current user.
Quark Users
#6807 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.126] on 2007/12/30 18:57:00
Hold n while dragging a vertex, sex! I never knew.
#6808 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2007/12/30 21:08:41
What does it do?
Single Vertex Dragging
#6809 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.126] on 2007/12/30 22:20:30
instead of dragging a whole "border" of a brush.
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/v...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/l...
That's Really Easy To Do In WC.
#6810 posted by inertia [24.164.72.139] on 2007/12/31 00:28:55
Just push "vertex tool" a few times.
#6811 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2007/12/31 02:14:06
Ahh OK, thanks! I see that it triangulates the faces when you do that. Is that automatic?
GtkRadiant Does That Too
#6812 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.45.57] on 2007/12/31 04:17:01
Assuming you have the 'vertex editing splits face' option on, anyway. It'll triangulate a face if you edit verts in such a way that the face is no longer planar. (It will also automatically un-triangulate (quadrangulate?) it when you move it back to a position that does create a planar face again, I believe).
It's a a nice feature! :)
#6813 posted by rudl [78.104.4.25] on 2008/01/01 18:09:57
It is also possible to press n and rmb on it and force the vertex to the grid. Otherwise Quark sometimes moves other vertexes. And even then when you look at the .map file with a text-editor it's a mess too many dezimals. Vertexes that should be on grid because forced are not. That's (apart from the bugs) a reason why I switched to bsp. I couldn't finish a map with QuarK because I struggled with Hom effects as the map got bigger.
untriangulate does not really work in Quark. it results in invalid Polys or moves other vertexes.
Oh
#6814 posted by Spirit [80.171.53.80] on 2008/01/01 21:50:41
Oh indeed. And I thought I set the right settings this time (no floating point, Quake map format). Gah!
Erm - Gawd... Transparent Textures I.e. Wire Fences
#6815 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.175.238] on 2008/01/09 17:45:20
Trying to explain but words are failing me...
(in a hurry)
You know in halflife you get those wire fences, and grills/grates etc, also stuff like vines and sometimes hanging cables which are made from brushes using textures which are fully opaque, except for one 'colour' which is fully transparent (i believe in the HL Quake Wad its a sort of blue colour)?
Can this be done in Quake?
Im thinking JPL is doing glass, Trinca did some in Wicked Base etc, but what I mean wouldnt be like that (func_wall with ".alpha" key).
I seem to remember one person say "why has no-one done this for quake yet, cause a lot of modern engines support it"
Does anyone know what I mean, or even better how to do it, i.e. what colour in the palette is "invisible"?
(I always thought it was funny in Halflife cause say the fence brush was 4 units thick, if you stood on one side then the other you could see the fence move four units cause the nearside of the brush would be the only visible side)
DOUBLE HARD QUESTION - I CHALLENGE THEE TO HELP!!
#6816 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/01/09 17:53:32
You mean like this?
http://kell.leveldesign.org/screen...
It's done as a sprite, instead of a texture, but it's pretty damn close.
It's in the next Quoth pak.
Yeah - Like That!!
#6817 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.175.238] on 2008/01/09 18:06:52
But isnt there a way of doing it with brush-models?
Sprite
#6818 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/01/09 19:44:40
I managed with Fimg to make a sort of drags-sprite like hexen2, only it moves to fast.
It is half transparant, but for making it with brushes I heard of a glass thing in the base pak developpement. See BasePack #252.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/drags...
Sprites...
#6819 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/01/09 23:36:38
you have to use sprites.
Unfortunately sprites can't be lit by the level's lighting calculations or by dynamic lights, and in any GL engine other than fitzquake you get pink edges around the sprites, plus in glquake the sprites are upside-down, plus glquake doesn't support oriented sprites, only camera-facing ones.
I actually have sprite grates in rubicon 2, but removed them from my levels after realizing all these problems.
Kell
#6820 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/01/10 08:39:44
Oh Oh Oh ! Nice !
However, it seems to be applied only on a single face, and there is no thickness... Well, the visual effect is damned good !! Cool !
#6821 posted by gone [78.37.207.213] on 2008/01/10 08:43:40
why not just use the alphamasked textures (fuck old engines compatribility, 90% play with the engines that support alpha)
Speeds...
#6822 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.175.238] on 2008/01/10 10:41:01
...Could you ellaborate?
What is an alphamasked texture?
:D
Kell: - Honestly, "what JPL sed!" :D :D
#6823 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/10 11:40:36
I've always enjoy the solidity of the Quake engine. Single polygon alpha textures have a paper thin quality that doesn't really appeal to me. I know I don't speak for everyone (obviously) but give me old school heft any day. :)
Bah
#6824 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/01/10 14:33:51
Cannot connect to database - post lost.
That Sounds Like A Real Shame Ijed
#6825 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.175.238] on 2008/01/10 14:39:10
I wander what you were gonna say?
(ironic you managed to post "bah" post)
Yeah, And I Rewrote It And The Same Thing Happened, Only Just Got It B
#6826 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/01/10 15:48:46
I agree that Quake looks better with chunky geometry rather than flat alpha textures, but for foliage there's nothing better. Also thinking if animated flames would be possible to replace the old rotating models, but that'd probably involve some sort of prefab creation.
Kell / Preach have eliminated the annoying HL1 effect of seeing both sides of the brush mentioned earlier, which is a good move.
Alpha mask is a black and white texture applied over the top of a diffuse texture - white is visible and black not, with shades of grey being semitransparent.
Quake uses colorkey, which basically defines a single specific colour as invisible (since it's just a string of numbers). The problem is that you get hacky edges from the image compression and there's no transparency gradient.
>> lucky I copied it this time.
Ijed
#6827 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/01/10 15:54:01
I guess the color choice has been done with a little bit of clue: like a nice pink flashy gay color :P
Yep,
#6828 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/01/10 17:01:39
its usually either retro gay pink, or modern gay purple.
Not Really Mapping But...
#6829 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/01/11 13:26:44
I want to convert Quake bsps to a format that Maya can read along with all textures and the lightmap. I wonder if anyone has already made a converter to do this. Anyone know? If not, then I wouldn't mind having a go myself sometime, does anyone have a copy of the bsp specs for Q1?
#6830 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/11 15:31:25
Reading the BSP files directly takes balls of steel. :) Are you sure you wouldn't want to maybe convert MAP files instead? It would seem a lot easier.
Than
#6831 posted by Vondur [89.175.96.234] on 2008/01/11 15:43:35
Right.Hemisphere.Deep.Paint.3D.v2....
it can convert .map to .obj or .ma. without lightmap of course.
An Idea Might Be To Team Up With An Engine Programmer
#6832 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2008/01/11 16:00:07
And force the guy to write a thing that will dump the data you need.
Bsp Vs. Map
#6833 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/01/11 22:24:20
I think you'd want to read the bsp since it's been processed to create a continuous mesh with no t-junctions, no inter-penetrating polygons, no hidden polygons, etc. A map file is just a bunch of boxes all touching each other, with lots of wasted faces pointing outwards to the void. Who would want a mesh that looks like that?
Regarding reading a bsp file and getting a UVs and stuff; the code in the engine that does this should provide a good starting point. I believe it's gl_model.c that you want (can't recall for sure.)
Also,
#6834 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/01/11 22:31:19
One down-side to bsp as a mesh is that surfaces are overly subdivided compared to what you'd want as a mesh file. This is becuase of the needs of the software quake renderer. Probably you could try to merge as many faces as possible during your import process, with the only problem being that otherwise mergeable faces might not be adjacent in lightmap UV space.
Thanks
#6835 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/01/12 04:06:31
yeah, I wanted to use bsp because it contains the textures and lightmap and also because, as you point out, it's a continuous mesh.
I probably won't end up doing anything though, because I have a lot of other stuff I want to do and I'm lazy :)
Zerstorer Info
#6836 posted by negke [82.82.190.240] on 2008/01/12 11:13:59
Just discovered this - might be useful for someone (if there's ever going to be another Zer map):
There seems to be a bug in the bloodcube code preventing its time (30sec) from running out if there is more than one item_bloodcube in a map. This can be used as a feature.
No Jpgs, Tgas In GtkRadiant 1.5?
#6837 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/13 17:08:35
Trying to map for DarkPlaces with 1.5, and for some reason it won't load the jpgs and tgas I'm wanting to use as textures. I've checked the game file and everything, and even LordHavoc was stumped.
I Love Biff
#6838 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2008/01/13 21:39:41
Do you think it's related to gtkr 1.5? I made my map with it and i could load high-res textures fine.
/Me HUGs Gibbie
#6839 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/13 21:58:26
As far as I know. I could try a reinstall and see if that helps.
#6840 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2008/01/13 22:10:48
I don't think that's gonna work. Try loading the bsp in QuArK and see if you've given the high-res textures the proper names?
Biffbiff
#6841 posted by grahf [24.28.243.72] on 2008/01/13 22:17:14
Do you mean they won't load in DP, or in GTKR 1.5?
biff, what map converter are you using (if at all?) Do the texture names in the map file have folder paths? (they shouldn't for q1) What format are the tga's? Radiant doesnt't like 8bit paletted tga's i've noticed, certain compression settings could mess things up too. I guess if you've consulted with havoc already you would know the proper override directory for the textures.
Grahfahf
#6842 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/13 22:55:03
They won't load in GTKR. Everything in DP works fine, I can even compile the maps and they run (mind you, without the rlit file for lighting). Some of the textures are in folders within the id1/textures folder, but the majority aren't -- and none of them show up in GTKR. All I get are the "shader file missing" icons for the jpgs or tgas, and the normalmaps.
#6843 posted by gibbie [82.161.62.98] on 2008/01/14 00:45:47
Oh wtf i thought you meant they didn't load in DP. u s. jk i l u!
Re: I Want To Convert Quake Bsps
#6844 posted by bear [213.89.237.143] on 2008/01/14 02:47:45
It probably won't be satisfactory but q3map2 can convert .bsp to .ase so you could go q1->q3->3d-program ... I have no idea if it includes UV:s and lightmaps(probably not).
GTKRadiant 1.5 Unable To Read Shaderfiles
#6845 posted by Russell Adamson [99.130.212.86] on 2008/01/16 19:10:40
I have a problem here. I'm set up GTK1.5 for quake III level editing. It says that it's reading my shaderlist.txt file but it is unable to read the shaderfiles. Can anyone help me. raladamson@gmail.com
Biff, Err
#6846 posted by grahf [24.28.243.72] on 2008/01/17 21:53:33
Well I guess I have the same problem ironically; I just use gtkr 1.4 instead and it's fine. Looks like the answer there was to create a new project file, putting it into %basepath%/scripts (for you, id1/scripts), and giving it the correct engine and texture paths for your install of Q1/DP, thus creating a "mod directory" for radiant to work out of.
Some of the textures are in folders within the id1/textures folder, but the majority aren't
Where are they then? If the config files tell gtkr that the basepath is "id1," then "id1/textures" is where you'd want them.
Of course, gtkr 1.4's config files were nice easy text files, and 1.5 has bizarre xml monstrosities. Not sure how similar it would be for 1.5.
Yeah Grahf
#6847 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/17 23:49:41
That's the solution I've come to, myself. I'll just have to downgrade to 1.4 and hope for the best this weekend =D
Update
#6848 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/18 02:26:45
GTK1.4 is working, but not with the "progressive" JPGs I've been using (from the Rygel hi-def texture pack for DP). But once I converted them to .tgas, all went well. I dunno If I'll use those textures, maybe some of them, but at least I know what I can get working at the moment.
Update (gah)
#6849 posted by biff_debris. [24.159.177.80] on 2008/01/18 03:38:02
Well, not GTK1.4 doesn't seem to want to save my maps. All the paths are in order (even the editor itself under the "save as" command shows the way directly to "\quake\id1\maps"), but the map still doesn't get saved. I even tried opening an old saved map and changing it (no dice). Mondo bizarro.
Re: Zerstorer Info (#6836)
#6850 posted by negke [82.82.186.237] on 2008/01/20 11:41:16
Actually, I wasn't quite right.
If there are multiple bloodcubes in a map, their time adds up (the more there are, the longer the one the player picks up lasts, but itapparently does run out sooner or later). This way, one could make a map in which the player has the bloodcube the entire time. It can be removed by killtargeting it.
It's also possible to pick up several bloodcubes at once - this multiplies the damage. Of course, all of them also feed on the player, so his health is drained faster, too.
Thanks to aguirRe for investigating.
Radiant
#6851 posted by rudl [78.104.23.165] on 2008/01/20 11:54:57
I'm too stupid to set up GTKradiant for Quake correctly.
Where do I have to place the .wad files?
#6852 posted by negke [82.82.186.237] on 2008/01/20 12:06:37
In the id1 directory.
Thanks
#6853 posted by rudl [78.104.23.165] on 2008/01/20 16:59:32
Gtkradiant And Hammer Map Files
#6854 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2008/01/20 23:53:43
I have a map file created in hammer. Is there a way to open it in gtkradiant? I get an "parse error at '[': expected '#number'" when I try to open it.
In Addition...
#6855 posted by grahf [24.28.243.72] on 2008/01/21 00:34:06
What neg|ke said will work for GTKRadiant 1.5, as I understand. For 1.4, look at a guide like necros's that tells you how to set it up (basically you have to convert the WAD's to jpg or tga):
http://necros.planetquake.gamespy....
Func_train Control
#6856 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/21 12:36:53
I want to have a func_train in my level that is to travel to a series of path_corners. I want it to travel to each path_corner and wait until triggered before moving to the next path_corner.
Is this doable in vanilla Quake? I have it moving to the first corner and stopping but then I can't get it moving again.
#6857 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/01/21 12:45:31
not in vanilla quake afaik. maybe some clever hack? but not with the standard set of entities.
if you set wait to -1, it'll just stop at the corner forever. you can only make a train start by being triggered once.
Necros
#6858 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/01/21 12:48:55
I didn't test it but, just imagine you would use several trigger_once (one for for each path_corner stop) in order to force the func_train to restart: wouldn't it work ?
#6859 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/21 13:21:59
I tried that but it seems like you can only trigger the func_train one time. After that, it ignores you. I can sort of hack it using multiple func_trains but that's really depressing from a hackery point of view.
Would love to solve this elegantly...
This Probably Won't Work
#6860 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2008/01/21 14:30:50
I haven't got a chance to test this myself, and I doubt it works, but try creating a solid entity like this:
"classname" "info_notnull"
"solid" "4"
"dmg" "2"
"movetype" "7"
"blocked" "train_blocked"
"use" "train_next"
"speed" "100"
"nextthink" "0.2"
"think" "func_train_find"
"noise" "misc/null.wav"
"noise1" "misc/null.wav"
I'm thinking it will mess up because it doesn't do the setmodel(self ...) calls at the start, but it's worth a shot. And maybe some clevererer people than me will think of a solution.
I Hope It Does Work!!
#6861 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/01/21 14:36:30
Vis
#6862 posted by inertia [134.53.120.119] on 2008/01/21 14:38:04
Multithread vis for linux -- where to get the source?
Multithread Vis
#6863 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/01/21 14:47:38
for windows? Where to get the application?
#6864 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 15:26:15
czg
I've been away for awhile and that reads like a whole lot of crazy to me. :) Can someone confirm that what he said works before I hurt myself trying it?
What I Would Do Willem
#6865 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/01/21 15:37:37
is make a small test map:
Create a simple tunnel with a platform (like a station platform) running down the length of it. Make a func_train that you can target to a sequence of three or four path_corners, with your "wait" "-1" key on each. Also make your "trigger_once"s where you want them. Export to a .map file. Open the map file in a text editor, find the func_train entity code, and replace with czg's code. Make sure that you also add a line
"targetname" "nameoftrain"
and make sure that your "trigger_once"s all have the line
"target" "nameoftrain"
I dont know if it would work, and am not in a situation where I could try it out for you, but hopefully this helps :D
Keep us posted
#6866 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 16:00:21
I can't try it until tonight, unfortunately.
However, I AM now tempted to try my hand at some QuakeC.
Once Round, The Hacking Way
#6867 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/01/21 16:39:52
Assuming that you only need the train to take the path once, that it doesn't loop, then there's a hacky way to do it. The first thing to do is to read the second half of this post and digest it
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
It might be worth making a quick test map and see if you can make a train that switches from one simple loop to a second simple loop first, to make sure you understand the hack.
Once you've got that down, the next step is how to do the specific thing you want. The trick here is to stack two path corners on top of each other at each stop, and make them target each other. While your train is "waiting" to be triggered at a "stop", it's actually going to be going back and forth between these two points, just moving nowhere because they're at the same location.
When you want the train to continue on, you remove one of these two stacked points using the trick in the linked post("use s_explode6"). Then you have another path_corner with the same name later in the entity list, and it'll head to that. You might find you have problems if you want it to stop and wait at that next point, you will need to make sure it's the other path_corner stacked at that point which has "use s_explode" set, or both will get removed when you target the first one to be killed.
The main problem I can see arising with this hack is the sound, you'll constantly hear the platform starting to move while it's "stopped", so you might need to make it a silent platform. If this is a problem, or you want the platform to loop endlessly but still wait for a trigger at each point, then you'll need to go the QC way. Which isn't too bad, this is quite a hacky hack.
Quake C Question
#6868 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 17:16:44
So now I've got the bug to play with QuakeC.
Can someone confirm this for me: Is it possible to define your own brush based entities in QuakeC? Say, I want to create a new kind of door or platform - is that allowed or is it just for stuff like new monsters and weapons?
Absolutely
#6869 posted by czg [83.253.251.70] on 2008/01/21 17:38:15
All of quake gameplay is made with QC
#6870 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 18:02:41
Nice. I'm going to have a play then. Suppose I'll have to round up the source for QCC and get that compiled for OSX first...
#6871 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 19:36:40
Not really mapping help but ... does anyone know where I might get a copy of the QCC source code? I've found many, many dead links on the web but not turning up much in the way of a real, actual download.
Or, you know, a binary that runs on OSX would be fine as well!
QCC
#6872 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.75] on 2008/01/21 19:49:29
I think it would better to base any work on a more modern compiler like FrikQCC or FTEQCC. It's not like I know anything about it but there often is some talk at inside3d about those.
#6873 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 19:56:37
I would still need source code since I'm on OSX here.
#6874 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/21 19:57:23
Oh crap, never mind! FrikQCC comes with source. Woot!
Note:
#6875 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/01/21 20:56:57
Custents already has this feature for func_trains, i believe.
Yeah, I've Used Frikqcc On Os X Just Fine
#6876 posted by mwh [116.48.177.57] on 2008/01/22 10:50:59
For reasons I now forget.
#6877 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/22 12:44:43
Alrighty ...
I found a version of QCC that would run on OSX and I found a copy of the 1.06 QuakeC source. I compiled the QuakeC and that all went well - no errors, and it generated a progs.dat for me.
However, when I load the game with my custom game (-game warren) I can't load any maps because it crashes out with:
"PR_LoadProgs: pr_fielddefs[i].type & DEF_SAVEGLOBAL"
Which, while obviously self explanatory (heh), has me confused.
My Quake version is 1.09 and the QuakeC source was 1.06 - would that be the problem? Does the error mean that I need 1.09 QuakeC source or does it mean that my QCC compiler is out of date?
I'm lost in a dark cave here and would appreciate someone throwing in a flare.
Hmm
#6878 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/01/22 19:44:25
I don't know what the error means, I'm afraid, but 1.06 is the most up to date version of the qc, the other updates only modified the engine. Did you actually make any changes to the source before you compiled it, or just built it straight up?
#6879 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/22 19:59:25
I compiled it straight up although admittedly I probably didn't do something I was supposed to.
Looking at the Quake source, that particular error comes after it has started to load my progs.dat so it obviously found it and got past the first few checks. Then it dies.
Dunno what's up. I'll hack at it some more when I get some time. It's frustrating to get messages like that which are, essentially, meaningless.
#6880 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/22 20:00:55
My suspicion is that my QCC compiler is horribly out of date or something. Would that mattter? Should I spend the time to frankenstein a new version together or does the QCC compiler version itself matter that much?
Hmm
#6881 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/01/22 21:45:43
It's possibly due to a old or dodgy compiler. This link claims to have frikqcc for mac:
http://developer.chaoticbox.com/qu...
On a pc, I'd only recommend using frikqcc or fteqcc, so I guess getting one of them for mac would be a good start.
#6882 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/22 22:31:52
Oh hell, I missed that totally! I'll give that a shot tonight, thanks.
#6883 posted by Trinca [89.181.4.194] on 2008/01/22 23:45:31
use Quark :p
.fgd and .def are easaly converted to .qrk
thks headthrump!
work real nice!
#6884 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/23 00:08:23
Does Quark work on OSX? I didn't think it did...
#6885 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/23 00:23:05
Hey Preach, thanks a ton! That FrikQCC works like a champ. I'm off to play...
Quoth
#6886 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/01/23 00:55:22
doesn't Quoth also support trains that can be stopped and retriggered? I know at least that there are some enhancements to the standard entity. If you can't stop/restart trains, it would be a nice addition if it's not too late, Preach ;) ;) ;) :)
#6887 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.108] on 2008/01/23 05:18:46
thks headthrump!
o mundo sorrindo
(all the Portuguese I know, and I learned it from a ringtone)
#6888 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/01/23 14:22:41
Hey, yeah, this is neat! I never played with QuakeC back in the day - this opens up a new world of level editing! Heh.
I made my mover class that I wanted and it was pretty painless! This is going to be fun.
Willem
#6889 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/01/23 15:14:36
You should do me a progs.dat with blood splats (zombie gibs which follow the tradjectory of bullet impacts with all enemies, stick to walls and slowly slide down).
That was my favourite once upon a time, but I cant find it anywhere and I'm allergic to programming :D
Apparently its dead simple...
#6890 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/23 15:23:25
I saw that tutorial over on inside3d. All you have to do is type into a text editor. Get on it. :)
Yeah...
#6891 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/01/23 15:30:28
...my ideal mod would basically be Quoth, with the above mentioned effect, and three increment painskins on most enemies except really weak ones (dog, fish, voreling)
I may have to start tinkering around with QC. No - wait - eyes growing redder, windpipe - tightening, skin - breaking out in - rash, nausia increasing... (*passes out from severe allergic reaction*) (*gone into anaphalactic shock*)
Multithread Vis And Light Source
#6892 posted by [Jimbo] [64.203.165.227] on 2008/01/31 17:44:12
Willem can you please email me the source code for your multithread vis and light? I am trying to get multithreading to work for linux vis and light tools and a working version would be helpful.
drofmij -AT- gmail -DOT- com
#6893 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/01/31 18:22:26
Sure, I'll do it tonight.
Seriously - Is There A Multithread Vis??!?!
#6894 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/02/01 13:47:07
That would be cool. I want it. Where do I find Win32 exe?
(Is it as stable as AguirRe's?)
#6895 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/01 14:28:02
Yep, the latest version of ToeTag includes a multithreaded version of VIS but it's only going to work on Mac OSX. The code was pretty easy to hook up in all honesty - it was mostly a matter of incorrect function names and a few small changes here and there. If anyone wants my source code for that you can grab it here:
http://www.wantonhubris.com/SrcFor...
That's the source code for the original id tools that I based mine on, and the multithreaded versions of LIGHT and VIS that I did. I don't know what's involved in making it Win32 happy, but I know that jimbo is working on a Linux version.
Hmmm
#6896 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.8] on 2008/02/01 16:31:45
Sound very exciting!!
Unfortunately, I feel the usual symptoms of a severe programming allergy starting to creep in!
There must me someone out there who is interested in making a win32 exe!!
If not, Q1 mapping in OSX seems even more attractive.
:D
#6897 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/01 17:14:36
Well, I've done what I can. :) There's the source and I assure whoever looks at it that the multithreading in there works on OSX. It shouldn't be a huge hassle for someone to port it to Win32 unless multithreading on Windows is a complete nightmare. In which, you have my condolences.
I Got This And Need Help Please
#6898 posted by rudl [78.104.19.106] on 2008/02/03 17:17:09
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265...
???
BSP & Prefabs
#6899 posted by FaTbOy! [70.148.122.92] on 2008/02/04 22:12:06
Hello, been lurking here for a while finally got time in RL to fart around with mapping and Ive started using BSP & that nice WC3.3 conversion. I like BSP better but it doesnt seem to remember what textures you put on prefabs. Ive been using the "Save Brush" feature I figured this was BSP's "Prefab Factory" equivalent. If there is something else or if anyone knows wether or not BSP will actually save tex info on prefabs please, please fill me in. I have been unable to find anything referencing this in the docs or in the cfgs.
Thanks in advance!
Fatty
If You're Talking About BspEditor...
#6900 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.205.215] on 2008/02/05 21:24:59
The texture information is saved with the .bru file. However, if you then open that 'prefab' in a map whose pre-defined texture file (as defined in "worldspawn") does not contain the prefab's texture, BspEditor has nowhere to get the texture from.
If that helps...
Possible Screw-up
#6901 posted by goldenboy [89.27.208.95] on 2008/02/06 02:46:52
OK, I need some pointers here.
I'm working on a turtlemap which is like 80% done (no roofs and no monsters yet.)
My central area (a 1024x1024 atrium) shares the same sky with the surrounding corridors and rooms, because the roof construction is only made of a steel skeleton (no "shingles".) I'd like to keep sky visible and use sunlight.
So basically this is like a 1600x1600 area divided by some walls, and doors, and eventually probably inhabited by ~ 100 monsters - nothing more. Think Doom map with ceilings ripped open and 4 times the size.
How badly will something like this affect r_speeds?
Also, what kind of stuff apart from torches counts toward the static entity limit? ^^ I have a bad feeling there, too. This might combine into a gigantic mess.
It was my beginning concept though, large atrium surrounded by wide corridors with holding cells. Maybe this was faulty already, most maps have interlocking corridors and only peripheral outdoor areas.
It looked good on paper. Sigh. :-/ It's almost finished though, so we'll soon see anyway... maybe it'll serve as an example to others... :-/
Hmmm....
#6902 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/06 11:36:18
Compile it and see if it runs in FitzQuake. Give it a full vis, and then when in FitzQuake type "r_showtris 1", to look at the mesh.
My visblocking is piss-poor at the best of times, but I know enough to know that you can get away with quite a lot when using a good glquake engine! IMHO. ..
As for there being about 100 monsters - this isnt too many for Quake by any means, so I wouldnt worry about that!
Try and block as many of the cielings off from eachother, think "If I put a sky-brush here, blocking this other part from view, will the player *really* be able to tell the difference, if they arent noclipping/flying around the map?". 'Vis-blocking' in this way will keep r_speeds down.
Try running the map in standard GlQuake or even software WinQuake, the original Quake executables. If it runs in them, I would say that its a reasonable statement that it will be fine in all other engines!!
Others will know better than me! ;-P
Was Thinking...
#6903 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/06 11:38:31
...100 monsters on the screen at once wont be healthy for Quake. AguirRes engine, yess, other engines, probably not....
...but who's crazy enough to put 100 monsters on the screen ALL AT THE SAME TIME?!?!?
Try
#6904 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/06 13:16:16
Basically what Ricky says - closing off the various sections into rooms that don't look like rooms because their ceilings are sky brushes - the player just assumes its all open space and not completely boxed in.
I mean using 'invisible' sky brushes with a skybox, basically. It works even if you have a pointed roof - put a wedge coming down from the topmost skybrush that meets its top edge. You have to find the best way to fake the visual effect.
Static entities are decorative objects - crucified zombies, func_illusionaries, flames, torches, light globes etc. But not lights, there's a few other exceptions as well.
The map is outdoor, as in lots of triangular faces? In a way that's easier to solve from a vis point of view (even if it's more work) in that you can just throw a dog-leg into a corridor that'll break up LOS more - in a brick or metal corridor you have to do more thinking, although wall pillars and corners help.
I Am
#6905 posted by aguirRe [213.101.71.187] on 2008/02/06 13:29:53
All the time, if it's less than 300 in view it looks desolated ... or limited by something ...
Reminds Me Of That Kascam Demo You Sent Me!
#6906 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/06 13:30:47
Goldenboy
#6907 posted by negke [82.83.0.180] on 2008/02/06 15:51:36
If the walls are high enough (while the player always stays down on the floor) and the rest is sufficiently visblocked, having only 'one sky' shouldn't be much of a problem. Vis time will be longer than with smaller sky units though.
Are crucified zombies static objects as well? I don't think so.
Not Sure
#6908 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/06 16:57:05
I managed to killtarget them in Nehahra, which should mean they're not, but I've heard alot of coders saying they are.
Another question would be does this apply to spawned models that don't necessarily have animation - Nehahra misc_objects, Quoth corpses and ID hacked bmodels.
I've never managed to decompile the QC and wouldn't know what it meant at first sight anyway.
I Dunno About Nehahra Ents...
#6909 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/06 17:06:37
...but the Quoth corpses, erm, I can tell you one thing: if you noclip outside of a map, you can still see the corpses (certainly in FitzQuake), whereas you cant see monsters/doors etc.
Hope this helps!
So...
#6910 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/06 17:51:35
obviously Quoth corpses are static entities...
Quoth Corpses
#6911 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/06 18:22:30
It's actually a bit more involved than that. The lynched and crucified corpses are static entities in quoth, and the flayed ones are dynamic - although the tutorial says all of them are dynamic. Changing them now would be a bad move for quoth2, as it might break existing maps by leaving them with too many static entities, or too many dynamic ones! So instead we now offer two spawnflags on such mapobjects. Spawnflag 1 will make them static, and spawnflag 2 dynamic. This allows you to balance your load of dynamic and static entities as you need to. It also extends to things like torches and flames.
Cool!!
#6912 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/06 18:27:40
Sounds really cool!
When can I get it for WIP map, i.e. when is Quoth2 finished?
I mean, christ, I dont want it to be rushed, im just curious.
Better Vis Saving Methods
#6913 posted by bambuz [193.167.7.19] on 2008/02/06 18:41:14
would be easier to judge if we saw the map, you can send it to someone on #terrafusion before vising (do you come/go there?)... Or if you can wait, over here...
To Mike...
#6914 posted by FaTbOy! [70.148.122.92] on 2008/02/06 19:56:34
Yeah I was talking about BspEd, been using the latest build. I am using the same wad I made the prefabs with. Its just taking the first non-animated texture in the wad and applying it to the entire prefab. Ive got everything set up in the worldspawn & whatnot. Drivers maybe? By now I am sure I am a version or two out of date with the nvidia drivers.
Preach
#6915 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/06 20:27:47
Well, I'm not really used with dynamic vs static entities... so first: what are the maximum limit value for both of them ?
And as it sounds Quoth2 is progressing well, do you have an idea when it will be released ? I rely a little bit on Quoth2 for my next map actually... ;)
#6916 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/02/06 21:03:33
The quoth2 content is basically done, we just keep tweaking things here and there. Although there isn't quite the same monster load in this release as there was for chapters+quoth1, there is a lot of peripheral content like mapobjects, plus a ton of code improvements and other 'under the hood' changes Preach has added to make everyone's life easier.
We could release any day, but I feel the mapping tutorial ought to be updated with all of the new content and features, otherwise there's no point in releasing; no-one will really know what's in the box.
But what do you guys think? Would you rather get the content now, and wait for me to incrementally update the tutorial over the next couple of weeks or so? Or just wait until I finally grind through it like last minute exam revision, so you can clear the first hurdles as soon as your downloads are finished?
Kell
#6917 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/06 21:45:03
Well, having the pak without any explanations is not really helpfull for people, as nobody but the quoth2 team, knows exactely what's inside..
Well, it's up to you, but I'd rather prefer to read the "manual" before using new stuffs...
In anyway: it is a very good news !!
I Reckon
#6918 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/06 21:58:40
Take your time is better - there's always something left that you want to fix, rushing it at the last minute just means you leave in junk you'd normally sort out.
Writing the docs is a good time to take a breather and look at the whole project, rather than a collection of features under a microscope.
</shrug>
Well.
#6919 posted by goldenboy [89.27.247.60] on 2008/02/06 22:20:07
Thanks for the help so far. I sealed the map off with a makeshift skybox and compiled. I got "Too many portals on leaf" with (tyr)vis, so I hacked it and then it compiled.
R_speeds are around 3000 (fastvised) so it seems I should probably seal the areas off more (the sky I have now is just a box over the whole map).
I can close a few windows (no big deal probably) and I can do what Ijed et al. said and "fake" the openness. I probably will have to. I'd prefer a fast map.
Neg!ke, my walls are 256 units high right now IIRC. Without roof stuff. That seems to not be enough to block VIS.
I'll do the invisible skybrush thing.
I don't know if I breached any limits right now, because I run the map in my hacked copy of Tyrquake. ;-) the one that runs Marcher etc. so I wouldn't know. I have a LOT of torches though and there will be corpses. No more than 30 or 40 monsters will be visible at a time.
Louis, I have metal corridors (this is not the grotto map) and doglegging them would be a bit problematic... the outdoor parts are all triangles, yes (compiled fine). I'll close the windows for a start. I'll send you the map soon so you can take a look at it. ;-)
Some more questions arose:
1) How to make a func_train stop at a path_corner and wait to be retriggered? My .def file is rather sparse with comments, I tried spawnflags 4 but it didn't work.
2) My GK door makes the key sound when opening (this is Quoth) but the SK door doesn't. Both are standard two-pane doors and both panes have the relevant key spawnflag set. It's a bit strange.
3) The "angle" key on trigger_once seems to do nothing? No matter what I set it to, the trigger is always activated by touch, regardless of the direction the player moves. Does this even work? I used a value of 180 (due south) but it acted as always...
I checked #terrafusion once but everybody seemed to be away? I'll look into it.
Kell: I'd prefer full documentation, even if it takes longer.
FaTboy
#6920 posted by Mike Woodham [80.51.253.154] on 2008/02/06 23:01:52
Sorry but I'm abroad for a little while and as I didn't bring my Quake laptop with me, I can't check things.
Might be worth posting a note on the BspEditor website, he always has answered me quickly.
If not, I'll pick things up when I get home.
Goldenboy
#6921 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/02/07 10:03:02
Please find answers to your question embedded below:
1) How to make a func_train stop at a path_corner and wait to be retriggered? My .def file is rather sparse with comments, I tried spawnflags 4 but it didn't work.
It is not possible without any QC hack of the func_train / path_corner. If you add a wait -1 to the path_corner, it will definitively stop the train, and there's no way to restart it... If I remember well it has been already asked in this thread last month... BTW: Kell, will it be a new Quoth2 feature ?
2) My GK door makes the key sound when opening (this is Quoth) but the SK door doesn't. Both are standard two-pane doors and both panes have the relevant key spawnflag set. It's a bit strange.
I never noticed that in Quoth before... effectively this is weird... I'll check that at home this evening, and I'll come back to you to confirm it.. maybe it is a real small bug...
3) The "angle" key on trigger_once seems to do nothing? No matter what I set it to, the trigger is always activated by touch, regardless of the direction the player moves. Does this even work? I used a value of 180 (due south) but it acted as always..
trigger_once angle field is effectively useless (AFAIK). No matter the angle you set, it will react as you mentioned it: I also experimented this behaviour.. so you can remove it, or put whatever value you want: it will work in anyway ;)
I hope it helped a little bit :P
GB
#6922 posted by negke [82.82.168.0] on 2008/02/07 10:36:32
Fastvis doesn't tell much. If the map is really that small, try a fullvis and see what it's like.
The angle field does have an effect on triggers: it makes then only fire their target when the player touches them looking in the specified direction. It's only useful in very few particular situation but should be avoided in most cases.
ERm....
#6923 posted by RickyT23 [86.145.190.97] on 2008/02/07 10:45:10
Kell/Preach - That sounds exciting, I have a 'virgin' map you see, the world is about 50% done and I'm kinda hoping to be able to knock a bit of Quoth2 magic into it! So far it has no monsters/weapons or anything except for some machinery, one door and an elevator and a few lights.
I was just curious about the timescale you guys were on, cause I remember you saying at christmas that it was nearly finished. I am by nature horrendously impatient! If it was going to take a long time, I would proceed to fill the map with Quoth1, but if all were left waiting for is a manual then I think I can wait!! :D
Please dont feel rushed by us people (well, me) take your time, please dont release it until you are happy with your creation, as I think everyone will be happier with a finished Quoth2! Patiently looking forwards :-P
Goldenboy - Have you tried AguirRes engine to run your map? I can guarantee that it will run your map! It also will tell you if you are over certain limits when it loads the map. My map 'The SickBase' was, in its released state, well over four of the hard engine limits for Quake1. My last map "The Hand" - I tested it in FitzQuake, but it was tailored to be touching a couple of the engine limits, and AguirRes engine was a real godsend!
I would also recommend his Vis too, as it saved my ass a couple of times, and frankly, now, I wouldnt use anything else!
Could you perhaps post a screenshot of your map? From an angle where you can see the upper section of most of the map? The idea of putting a massive skybrush over the entire level sounds like something I would have done when I started out, but nowadays I think I would spend a little time adding smaller sky brushes, to waste as little space as possible. This could save on speeds/vis times.
It would be easier to see what your facing if you showed a screenshot, perhaps noclipped out of the map, with gl_clear 1 on the console.
That is unless you are sworn to secrecy!
#6924 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/07 11:28:01
"It is not possible without any QC hack of the func_train / path_corner. If you add a wait -1 to the path_corner, it will definitively stop the train, and there's no way to restart it... If I remember well it has been already asked in this thread last month... BTW: Kell, will it be a new Quoth2 feature ? "
This is true. It's not possible, AFAIK. I wrote some QuakeC that gives me a custom "func_mover" class that WILL do it but it's not part of any mods I know of.
However, if Preach would like to include it in Quoth2 he could send me an email. The code is real simple. :)
Btw Kell / Quoth2
#6925 posted by negke [82.82.186.226] on 2008/02/07 11:57:44
Which new features are in exactly? I'm not interested in new overpowered monsters, but rather some new triggers/funcs and additions to existing ones. Those are the things that make a pack like Quoth useful.
Re-movable Trains
#6926 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/07 13:31:59
Are in Quoth1
Golden_boy
#6927 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/07 13:34:57
From the description it sounds like the windows are the problem. Just put a brush inside that's a window pane ie. glass texture, which should solve everything, although it'll change the look a fair bit as well since almost all window textures are bright + colourfull.
#6928 posted by gb [89.27.211.189] on 2008/02/07 18:27:57
I solved the train issue, Quoth seems to already have this indeed. You just set the path_corner to "wait -1" and check spawnflags 2 (apparently TOGGLE, just x in my case) on the train. Thanks Quoth guys.
The angle on the triggers definitely didn't work. I'll use something else.
Ijed, I'll just close the windows because I learned that monsters got activated when I didn't want them to, and this kinda sealed it for me. Problem--
Huge skybox: This was just so I could compile it for playtesting, I'll probably seal off the areas from each other now.
Will try a fullvis today.
AguirRe's tools & engine: Windows only, which is why I hacked Tyrann's already liberal ones. I have a stock Proquake 350 for testing the limits though. :-) atm I'm more concerned about roughly finishing it, then I'll take to the limits stuff.
Key sound issue still unresolved.
New question: I have a powerup (cross) on a func_train, which is supposed to raise the item out of the water/lava when triggered. This works with monsters, but not with the cross? The train rises when triggered, but the cross sitting on it doesn't. Does this just not work with items?
Screenie forthcoming.
Yeah...
#6929 posted by FaTbOy! [70.148.122.92] on 2008/02/07 19:16:43
I considered doing that, was a bit leery since I have been hasseling him with noobie questions already. I figured I would ask here & do some forum dredging to see if its been covered before in the past since I have a couple days off. I suppose its not a huge issue really, more of a nagging question.
Thanks, Fatty
Hmm
#6930 posted by RickyT23 [212.219.207.42] on 2008/02/07 20:29:23
the directional trigger - on the "teaching old progs.dat new tricks" thread, wasnt there a way of 'activating' trigger with another trigger, so it wont fire until another trigger triggers it? It wouldnt be directional, but I think maybe you could use it...
Goldenboy
#6931 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/07 20:37:29
About your 2nd question (i.e key sound when opening SK/GK), I checked it and it generates no sounds, except door opening sound... I'm in worldtype 2 (base)... and maybe it doesn't work at all here.... though...
#6932 posted by negke [82.83.47.228] on 2008/02/07 20:40:35
Triggers with angle do work the way I said. Try different angles or touching them while moving backwards and you'll see.
Is the powerup suspended or does it drop to the floor? It has to be placed above the spot the func_train will apprear in-game (first path_corner) and it should work. If it doesn't rise with the platform, try placing it higher above.
Triggers And Angles...
#6933 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/02/07 21:08:58
note: angle 0 won't work for this, use 360 instead (quakec treats a "0" value in a map the same as the value not being set at all.)
#6934 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/02/07 21:13:22
direction dependent triggers: just tried this for both trigger_once and trigger_multiple:
"target" "silver"
"angle" "270"
works fine.
I suspect this: regardless of the direction the player moves is the misunderstanding. The angle specifies that the trigger only fire when its value matches the player's direction of facing, not their direction of movement.
key sounds: it would hep if you told us what key type you're using. If it's the quoth 'elder keys' then neither gold nor silver makes the key sound along with the door sound when used. I guess this was a deliberate decision to prevent the much more intrusive key sound from drowning out the door sound, though I can't honestly remember.
I tried out the other keys in appropriate maps and got the correct sound with all of them.
falling cross: I think this is a quoth1 error, caused by changes to the func_train that has them spawned in a map after items, instead of before as in id1 progs. I think.
#6935 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/02/07 21:14:19
also, what metl said about 0/360 :P
#6936 posted by gb [89.27.211.189] on 2008/02/07 22:30:51
All right, thanks for helping.
Key sounds: Worldtype 1. Hm, if it works for you Kell, then it's probably my fault. JPL: Were you using Quoth? If so, I'm certain it should play key sounds when opening base keydoors. It does in one of my maps. Standard Id1 does _not_ play those sounds although they're in the pak files.
Angle triggers: Same. Anyway I changed all of them to info_notnulls so they, in turn, wait for another trigger. Works even better for me. (What Ricky said.) I knew about the 0/360 thing, but I couldn't get 180 to work either. Whatever...
Falling cross: I'll have to find another way then. Hordespawn can spawn items, right? That might work.
gb
#6937 posted by gb [89.27.211.189] on 2008/02/07 22:37:10
oh umm, JPL, I think Quoth1 doesn't have the key sound thing. :-P sorry, mess-up on my part.
Hordespawn
#6938 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/07 23:47:02
It's not a good idea to use hordespawn for items in quoth1, as it will probably break your monster count on the map. This is fixed in quoth2.
Gb: No Problem ;)
#6939 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/02/08 08:53:04
I indeed tested your issue with Quoth1 ... I didn't understood you weer beta testing Quoth2 :P
And I'm also waiting patiently for Quoth2 release, as there's no hurry on my side as my project is half completed regarding brush count...
Hehe...
#6940 posted by distrans [220.235.107.204] on 2008/02/08 09:47:35
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood...
Yes, It Is!!
#6941 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.101] on 2008/02/08 11:18:38
That just makes me wanna do aliens Quake levels again. Make sum, I mean! Played Rubicon last night for the first time. I thought it was quite 'Alienesque'. I suppose my current map is a bit alien style. I'd like to think so. Theres something about creeping around dark techy corridors, exploring at the same time as looking out for nasty beasties! Hehe - new map will have SSG, SNG, PG and GL. They all fit that sort of style!
S00ry - I diverge....
Preach
#6942 posted by gb [89.27.234.170] on 2008/02/08 19:53:01
Good to know. That'll do then.
Sound Switching On/off....
#6943 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/10 10:50:32
Question: is there a way to swith on off sounds in Quoth ? Example: I want an alarm sound to start using a trigger (this one is supported), but if I want to switch it off, I don't know if it is possible (using a toggle field, etc...).. Any clue ?
.MAP And .WAD File Locations
#6944 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/10 11:34:12
A user on my blog has come across something which I'm not 100% sure is a problem. What do you guys think?
He saved his maps and wads into another directory on his machine, seperate from Quake. When he went to compile it, ToeTag crashed on him and he couldn't re-open the map.
ToeTag, at this point, requires your MAP files to be in "id1/maps" and your WADs to be in "id1/gfx". Is that unreasonable? Do other editors allow you to keep files wherever you feel like on your hard drive?
#6945 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/10 11:35:24
Oh, and of course you can use mods. Like if you're using Quoth, then "quoth/maps" and "quoth/gfx" work fine.
Yeah That's Kinda Unreasonable In My Opinion
#6946 posted by czg [83.253.251.70] on 2008/02/10 12:32:48
Neither .maps nor .wads (map texture ones at least) are ever used by the engine so there is no need for them to be anywhere special.
#6947 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/10 13:42:12
OK, fair enough. That's something I didn't consider when initially writing the editor since that's not how I personally work (I just use the maps and gfx directories).
Will fix for version 1.0!
I Think
#6948 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/02/10 18:31:57
you should require the string "toetag" in the editor path and "quake" in the compiler and "maps" in the map path just to be sure that ... that what?
But yeah, seriously, allow people to keep their wads and maps and bsp:s anywhere. Someone could make a map for a mod that is named start.bsp so it definitely needs to be in the right subdir to work.
Anybody Would Consider...
#6949 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/10 22:22:43
... to answer #6943?
JPL
#6950 posted by gb [89.27.242.240] on 2008/02/10 22:58:58
1. Trigger a play_sound_triggered
2. Trigger a trigger_relay, which killtargets the play_sound_triggered after "delay" seconds
That's just guessing though, I didn't try it.
JPL To #6943
#6951 posted by Mechtech [71.77.32.60] on 2008/02/11 05:16:33
One way to do it
(starts a loop)
trigger_relay
target soundplayer
targetname soundplayer
delay # (slightly longer than the sound)
play_sound_triggered
targetname soundplayer
speed -1 (same volume everywhere in level)
noise misc/alarm.wav
trigger_once
killtarget soundplayer
I dont't see a way to toggle. Have to use another loop
Gb / Mechtech
#6952 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/11 09:04:09
I already tried to use a killtarget, but it did not stop the sound... also, if it would have worked, I doubt I would be able to restart the sound again, like a toggle...
I think there was a trick somewhere (except QC).. Anyway, thanks for the inputs...
Kell: is it something added in Quoth2 ?
#6953 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2008/02/11 10:04:20
The trick is you need to make the entity play a different non-looping sound on the same channel.
How you do this in quoth I don't know.
Err...
#6954 posted by distrans [124.149.58.90] on 2008/02/11 10:36:46
...didn't Mr Woodham get togglable music happening in his last masterpiece (which used Quoth)?
Distrans
#6955 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/11 12:02:14
Was it based on Quoth, but with some QC modifications ?
AFAIK
#6956 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/11 13:36:27
It was its own thing, with Quoth included. Having said that I had this working in Quoth1 - warpb. The rune shrine has a looping sound activated when you enter (the chanting) which is kill targeted by the death of any one of the enforcers / defenders.
I can't remember how I did it but it is possible with standard Quoth1 entities - mess with the entity set for long enough and you'll get there. Or else you can download the source from shub-hub, the 7zip password is the name of the pack in lowercase, without a space.
Play_sound_triggered
#6957 posted by negke [82.83.22.127] on 2008/02/11 14:24:56
spawnflag 1 = toggle
That's The Bunny
#6958 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/11 16:26:23
Whats The One
#6959 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.238.33] on 2008/02/11 16:36:05
for getting blood out of stones?
Monster_silicon_vampire
#6960 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/11 16:45:43
Toggling The Music...
#6961 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.237.39] on 2008/02/12 20:40:48
...was done as czg said - I simply played a nul.wav on the same channel if the user pushed the button. (It also re-set the music player queue to the same piece of music so that if the player pushed the button again, the music.wav played again and re-set the music queue to the nul.wav etc)
Mike
#6962 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/02/13 08:59:28
Thanks for the infos ! I'll try it ASAP.
JPL
#6963 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2008/02/13 18:37:15
Don't forget that I was doing this in my own FMB progs.dat, not Quoth and not the standard one.
If you want more details of my music_player module, let me know.
Mike
#6964 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/13 18:54:34
Oh... OK, I have to test it.. maybe it does not work with Quoth.. Let's experiment ;)
The Forge?
#6965 posted by FaTbOy! [70.148.122.92] on 2008/02/14 00:34:31
Anyone got a valid link to this site? It used to have some nice downloadable tutorials for setting up alot of the hipnotic entities. Specifically the Force Field ones, Id like to add these to a map I am working on and so far have not figured it out on my own.
Thanks, Fatty
The Forge: The Legend Continues.
#6966 posted by Voultar [209.209.140.21] on 2008/02/14 04:27:01
The old link is dead. However I located an archived copy of the site. Enjoy http://web.archive.org/web/2000081...
The Forge Is Still There
#6967 posted by aguirRe [213.101.73.131] on 2008/02/14 10:01:58
at least for me, but PQ sites sometimes play hide and seek ...
Fatboy
#6968 posted by negke [82.83.41.83] on 2008/02/14 12:18:14
http://shub-hub.com/files/tools/hi...
Docs and example maps for Hipnotic stuff.
QuakeC Question
#6969 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/14 15:48:16
So I'm hacking around with some stuff and have a question. I know QuakeC isn't object oriented so you can't call methods within entities but at the same ... man, that would be handy.
I find myself setting up stuff like changing an entities think function to point to a function where I can do something to the entity and then it changes it back to it's regular think. This works but it feels ... hacky and smells bad.
Is there a more elegant way to call functions on an entity that you've just spawned (for example) than this, or is this the only way and I'm wasting time benig annoying about it?
For example, say I have an entity that spawns a monster_army. I then want to call a function on that entity. This is how I currently do it:
myentity = spawn();
myentity.think = monster_army_myinitfunction;
myentity.nextthink = time + 0.01;
And then monster_army_myinitfunction will get called next frame. Which works. But it smells bad. Is there a better way?
Yeah
#6970 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/14 16:57:47
Would something along the lines of this do the job?
local entity temp_self
myentity = spawn();
temp_self = self;
monster_army_myinitfunction();
self = temp_self;
#6971 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/14 17:03:53
Interesting. I assume you left out a "self = myentity;" line though, right?
Thanks Everyone!
#6972 posted by FaTbOy! [70.148.122.92] on 2008/02/14 18:06:27
I looked around Shub-hub yesterday but I missed those files. Lunch hour rush I 'spose...
Anyone have a clue why the doors in my map arent playing their sounds at full volume? Im using BSP v 96d, and Im running Fitzquake080. No matter what sounds I assign it it is barely audible. Other sounds like jumping & weapons fire are fine.
Arrgh, Yeah
#6973 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/14 18:06:30
Yeah, I did.
If this initialisation function never needs to be run as a think function, then the alternative is to pass the spawned entity as a parameter to the monster_army_myinitfunction().
How that would go is you'd change the definition of that function to
void(entity grunt) monster_army_myinitfunction =
{
...
};
Then replace all instances of self in that function with grunt.
You'd then make your calling code look like:
myentity = spawn();
monster_army_myinitfunction (myentity);
As I mentioned above, the problem with this is that you can't then have monster_army_myinitfunction as a .think or .use function. If you like the suggestion in this post, it's cleaner code to my eyes, but you do need it as a .think at some point, then there is a way round that. Simply define another function like so:
void() monster_army_myinitfunction_self =
{
monster_army_myinitfunction(self);
}
and use that function as the think. The most frequently used example of this idea in the quakec code is SUB_Remove, which simply calls the function "remove" on the entity "self", making it possible for entities to remove themselves with use and think functions.
#6974 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/14 18:20:54
Thanks Preach! It never even occured to me that "self" would be writable. Learn something new every day!
I'll give this all a shot tonight...
#6975 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/14 22:34:05
As a follow up, what options do I have for doing HUD stuff in QuakeC on vanilla Quake 1?
Can I do anything at all? Even some text strings would be helpful.
Not Really
#6976 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/14 22:42:39
You're pretty limited. Your options for writing text strings are to centerprint them or bprint them. There are complicated ways of hijacking centerprint so that you can use some space for your own message, and still use the rest of the space for normal centerprints, but it's a pain to do in technical terms.
If you just need a few more weapon/powerup icons, you might consider using the -hipnotic or -rogue options, which are supported in all engines. The best way to see what extra icons they allow you is to just play about in either mission pack and see what new icons are added. Rogue adds more, but they're more complicated to actually use well. Also, both options will probably require you to rewrite some qc code just to make things look normal again. But since you're gonna mess with it to add your icons anyway, it's not that bad.
Oh
#6977 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/14 22:43:22
...and if the inside3d folks start going on about csqc stay well away.
#6978 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/14 22:57:12
Heh, OK, noted.
That's why I was careful to specify vanilla Quake 1 so they wouldn't do that. We'll see.
Bummer about the HUD though. Oh well.
Skeletal Animation In Quake.
#6979 posted by Voultar [209.42.183.57] on 2008/02/15 02:05:33
It can be done, with relative ease. Why haven't we seen it yet? The world may never know..
Well...
#6980 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/02/15 08:41:48
All we need is an engine that supports it, a file format that implements it, and a modelling program that exports it.
Actually, this sounds like the sort of thing Darkplaces would support (it loads a lot of half-life, quake3, etc. formats.)
Random Squishing
#6981 posted by negke [82.83.41.206] on 2008/02/15 10:22:24
What is it that the player sometimes seems to block a lift/door/train for no apparent reason (no obstacle in the way)? In most cases the engine only reports an 'unstuck' message, but sometimes it's more severe and the player's health is drained rapidly or he dies if the func's dmg value is high enough. This keeps happening even if all surrounding geometry is clipped off.
Wouldnt It Make Animation A Lot Easier?
#6982 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.238.33] on 2008/02/15 10:25:13
I mean I never tried modeling (knew from the start I was too ugly man), but you have to sculpt each frame individually dont you? Whereas skeletal animation - your just saying where each 'bone' is going. Wouldnt that make creature creation easier and faster? (Not really for Quake purists though)
Neg
#6983 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.238.33] on 2008/02/15 10:29:12
Erm, I played a level called The Harb!ngeR of Fish's 'Assault' level collection. Or assault.zip to every other Quaker. It is quite creative with func_trains, and there's a shuttle which you have to climb in. You always get gibbed in that! I died about 10 times, without doing anything! Eventually it crash landed as planned and I survived though....
Skeletal Animation
#6984 posted by Preach [131.111.8.96] on 2008/02/15 11:07:24
Darkplaces supports it's own file format called dpm, which uses skeletal animation. Models for this format are compiled from smd files, the same ones that are used to create HL1 models. There are ways to create these files from max, gmax, milkshape and probably many other programs.
The reason why it's not widely used is that at the moment there's no way to control individual bones, all you can do with the bone information is read the orientations of the bones. That's useful for, say, attaching weapon models to the players hand, but little else. The plan as I understand it is to get csqc working first, then you will be able to blend animations/rotate bones manually. Of course, that means we could still be years away from it becoming useful.
Even if you aren't using a skeletal format, it's still possible to use bones in the creation process, it's the easiest way to make animations. You just calculate the position of each vertex per frame when it's time to export the model and ignore the bones themselves. Hopefully nobody sculpts each frame by hand in anything complicated.
?
#6985 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/02/15 13:22:16
When you're talking about a game as old as this it doesn't really matter if it supports bones or not, most modern games only have limited bone support, because as an animation system its excellent but for a programming system to understand it is a ballache.
The only game I remember as using bones well was Undying.
Don't ask me about 'joints' fucking stupid crap.
Any animator with the right mix of sense / laziness / psychosis making a creature for Quake is going to do it in their favourite 3d package then export it frame by frame.
My animation is bad, but I remember suffering over cell animation for weeks in uni; anyone who enjoys putting themselves through that kind of thing isn't going to be bothered by doing a few extra exports, at least one of which needs to be done anyway.
Whats That Thing "motion Capture"?
#6986 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.238.33] on 2008/02/15 14:47:25
Where you stick rubber balls with sensors in on specific places on your body, and then carry out movements with a sensor picking up where the balls are moving, and then use that data to create the animation?
Hehe, thats got to be quicker than frame-by-frame animation!!
I wander how many thousands of pounds it costs for that sort of rig? :P
Kinda loose that whole hobbyists charm aspect aswell.... dontyouthink?
#6987 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/15 15:37:44
OK, I'm trying to spawn monsters by hand and having a hard time. I can get them into the world at the location/rotation that I want but I can't seem to activate them (aka make them hostile towards the player) without them doing bizarro stuff.
I do something like this:
local entity SS;
SS = self;
self = spawn();
monster_army();
self.origin = origin_i_want;
self.angles = angles_i_want;
self.fixangle = TRUE;
monster_use();
self = SS;
This is not my exact code, but close enough. The problem that I'm having is the "monster_use" function. This makes them hostile towards me, but they don't turn to look at me and I can't hurt them (bullets hit them but don't hurt them). If I don't call "monster_use", everything is fine except that I have to shoot them to get them angry.
Does this ring a bell for anyone or do I need to slog through this over the weekend?
Intiialisation
#6988 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/15 16:08:56
You've fallen afoul of one of the most common problems with spawning monsters, although in one of the most damaging ways I've ever seen :-).
The key to this problem lies at the bottom of the function monster_army, where it calls
walkmonster_start ();
There is a second function called walkmonster_start_go() in monsters.qc, which fixes all of the problems you are having with your monster, giving them a turning speed and making them damagable for instance. What walkmonster_start () does is sets walkmonster_start_go() as the think function for the monster in question, to be carried out some short time in the future. This delay is put in so that not all the monsters start at the same time, which makes the first frame much less demanding.
Normally when you spawn monsters like this, you end up with monsters that are undamageable for a fraction of a second, before walkmonster_start_go() kicks in and they start up. However, this minor glitch that only really affects nitpickers and telefrags is then compounded by the second thing you do.
monster_use() wakes the monster up, but in doing so it also changes its think function to the first frame of its running behaviour. This of course overwrites the previous think function of walkmonster_start_go(), and so the monster is never properly initialised.
So how do you fix it? It's luckily nice and simple. Add a call to walkmonster_start_go() right after your call to monster_army().
This skips the delay, but that's fine because the world is already spawned so there should be no problems with running both functions back to back. Then the monster_use() (probably) overwrites the call to walkmonster_start_go(). I say probably, because it's possible that the monster won't be woken up, if they have a ring of shadows or notarget on. You might want to call self.th_stand() before the call to monster_use, so that they behave straight away if the player is hidden. They will behave after the walkmonster_start_go() call anyway, but this is a little quicker and avoids going through that twice.
#6989 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/15 16:19:54
THANK YOU! :) You've been invaluable, Preach. I'll give this a try tonight.
"You've fallen afoul of one of the most common problems with spawning monsters, although in one of the most damaging ways I've ever seen :-)."
When I go down, I go down hard. Heh.
Skeletal Animation....
#6990 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/02/15 22:13:03
Of course, professional game animators use skeletal animation to create their work regardless of whether the game itself supports it. And even qME has some half-assed bone system which you can use to animate before exporting to the skeleton-free mdl format.
But a lot of modern games DO support it, and there are two main benefits --
1. reduced disk space usage. Skeletal animation can be seen as a type of compression since there are many more verts than bones on most models.
2. adding/combining animations. Games with skeletal animation can add multiple animations together, such as a walking animation that only affects the legs, and a shooting/gesturing animation that only affects the upper body.
Fun fact: the Medal of Honor:Allied Assault human skeleton only had individual bones for thumb and index finger, and the last three fingers had to share bones. So the characters could point, make a fist, and hold a gun, but could not spread their fingers apart, count from 1 to 5, or do other useful gestures.
Fused Hands
#6991 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/16 03:43:03
The wonderful low poly TF2 models found at
http://boards.polycount.net/showfl...
use a similar idea, this time only modelling the thumb and forefinger separately, while combining the three lower fingers into a single polygon to keep the counts low. This is mainly an excuse to share the joy of these models with the rest of the folks here, they are pretty cool though.
More QuakeC
#6992 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/16 12:16:31
OK, so let's say I put this into defs.qc:
.float blargh;
Then, in ToeTag, I add a key "blargh=666" to an entity. Then I add a "dprint( ftos(blargh) );" to the spawn function of that entity.
I would think that 666 would find it's way into the blargh variable - right? Instead, Quake prints "0" in the console. What's up with that?
Almost
#6993 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/02/16 12:30:51
Change it to
dprint( ftos(self.blargh) );
The key values are added as fields of that entity, which self points to during spawn functions.
You might also fall victim to some of the limitations of early qc compilers here. It used to be the case that you needed to do
local string debug;
debug = ftos(self.blargh);
dprint(debug);
dprint("\n"); //add a newline too
fteqcc and probably frikqcc add these temporary variables in for you, so there's no need to worry about it.
#6994 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/16 12:35:05
Actually, it DOES seem to work ... the value isn't there at spawn time but it's there in gameplay because the mod code is acting properly for me. Weird.
Thanks for the answer! I'll keep an eye on it.
Help Me Plz...
#6995 posted by poor [60.53.156.159] on 2008/02/20 07:57:04
someone replay me plz... i hav a problem... . at the first i open gtkradiant it ask me wat game then i click "Return To Castle Wolfenstein" then it say error,then i close it and reopen the program it ask engine path, wat should i choose?? and how to return to the first setting??
Help Me Plz...
#6996 posted by poor [60.53.156.159] on 2008/02/20 07:57:06
someone replay me plz... i hav a problem... . at the first i open gtkradiant it ask me wat game then i click "Return To Castle Wolfenstein" then it say error,then i close it and reopen the program it ask engine path, wat should i choose?? and how to return to the first setting??
I Know I've Asked Before But...
#6997 posted by Drew [66.79.234.40] on 2008/02/20 21:13:56
How do you enable fog in fitz etc?
Fog In Fitz
#6998 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/20 21:37:49
Either in the worldspawn, or with the console.
Command line fog <density> <red> <green> <blue>
density/red/green/blue in 0 to 1 range. In order to adjust red/green/blue, use the wanted value bewenn 0-255 and divide it by 256... and experiment ;)
Rotating Stuff Again...
#6999 posted by goldenboy [89.27.239.37] on 2008/02/21 05:37:59
Func_movewalls.
How do I use them correctly? Atm I don't understand how many I need for a given rotating object, how large and what shape they must be...
I can make a rotating "shell" and even cope with the lighting and texturing issues. The collision is the problem. I experimented with visible func_movewalls, but I couldn't make heads or tails of their behaviour in game.
I had a horizontally rotating platform, that should rotate while the player is standing on it, endangering the player to slide into some lava underneath or at least give the feeling. The platform itself was just a 256x256 flat rotate_object. It had the toggle flag set and was triggered once, to rotate slowly, then retriggered by a trigger_relay with a matching delay, to stop it rotating after it turned about 20 degrees.
I got the rotation working as intended, but the func_movewall behaviour was totally weird. I basically duplicated the platform and turned the double into a func_movewall, which I then placed smack on the top of the brush. When testing, the func_movewall moved up through the sky and out of the map in a very trippy manner. It seemed to move faster than the platform, and continue moving even when the platform stopped rotating. And then it just flew out of the map at some weird angle. :-P
I gave up on the rotating platform plan then... it seemed so weird.
but I'd still appreciate an explanation of func_movewall behaviour, and how they should typically be applied when making rotating doors etc.
I'm a bit lost here. Is it possible that the func_movewall ignored the toggle flag/trigger event?
Is there a way of setting spin-up and spin-down time independently? It would be good if the object could start turning slowly, accelerate and then stop abruptly. I guess this isn't possible?
I'm using Quoth/hipnotic here obviously.
Func_movewall
#7000 posted by negke [82.82.160.177] on 2008/02/21 09:54:41
It's a bit weird indeed. It seems you have to make the clipping volume consist of multiple smaller pieces (each an individual func_movewall entity) depending on the rotating object's shape and axis. Try r_showbboxes (Fitzquake) to get a better idea of how it looks in your map (and other maps) and check the hipdocs thing I linked above.
The
#7001 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/21 13:41:12
Movewalls don't rotate, but they move around the info_rotate in an orbital pattern, so you can't use a brush the same size as your visible rotating model because even though it rotates, it's collision won't. Refer to czg's tutorial embedded in the Quoth1 doc's, it's not very easy to follow (probably because the rotating system is a motherfucker) but you'll get there in the end.
I Didnt Use Movewalls
#7002 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.238.33] on 2008/02/21 13:56:02
in The Hand That Feeds You, because:
a - signon buffer was maxed out
b - not really worth it cause the only way you could reach the fan was via a secret anyway, which isnt realistic anyway.
So you can walk straight through all of the rotating entities in TheHand without getting hurt!!
:P
Quake's Physics
#7003 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/02/21 14:52:08
are fucked anyway in that department. For example jumping up on a horizontally moving platform, you're suddenly horizontally stationary relative to the world, which means you move backwards relative to the platform. And shooting grenades when at speed, you catch your own grens etc...
So I don't know what would happen even if you got the clipping to work, gb.
#7004 posted by gb [89.27.239.37] on 2008/02/21 18:21:54
neg!ke, thanks, I'll check that out.
Ricky, yup, I have fans in some other map and I came to the same conclusion as you :-) very practical. You could just use a clip brush/trigger_hurt combination in the air duct I guess, if there is a possibility the player might touch the fan. Or just a trigger_push/trigger_void Alien 3 style :-P rather mean.
Ijed:
they move around the info_rotate in an orbital pattern
does this indeed mean a spherical pattern that doesn't follow the shape of the object?
If so, how can the player stand on a func_rotate_train, or can't he?
even though (the model) rotates, it's collision won't.
That's what I feared. That sucks. It means my rotating platform won't work.
However it seems that while the model rotates, its collison moves in some completely trippy way.
Well, I'll try to find some map sources to look at... maybe decompile some hipnotic maps. ^^ gosh I like doing stupid, repetitive things :-P I'll reread czg's doc, but it isn't terribly clear on the collision part.
For example jumping up on a horizontally moving platform, you're suddenly horizontally stationary relative to the world, which means you move backwards relative to the platform
That sounds like a bug that could be fixed in something like Quoth. Not the grenade thing though.
So I don't know what would happen even if you got the clipping to work, gb.
I kinda put my money on the fact that you can stand on a lowering door aka door used as lift... and you can stand on the lowering door in the hipnotic start map, and even let yourself be lifted and squished by it.
Whoever owns it should release the hipnotic map sources ... I think Ritual went belly up though...
You Can
#7005 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/21 19:08:06
As I remember you can stand on a rotating - there's one used in one of the hipnotic maps, but it's cheated past the broken physics by sticking the player to it - so they don't adopt the momentum of the thing they're stood on.
The reason to have lots of movewalls is that they're inside your rotating model, so as it rotates around the axis the movewalls are orbiting around it at the same pace, making them more or less inside the model constantly.
Collision On Func_movewall
#7006 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/21 19:55:51
func_movewall collide in exactly the same way as a door does. The player can stand on one, and when it moves they move with it. As usual for a door, once you just off it, you don't take any momentum from it.
The idea behind them is to make an approximation to the rotating object out of small pieces, each of which can move separately. Since the solid collision hull of objects in quake can't be rotated, the idea is that each small piece is moved in a circular path, so that its centre is in the same place relative to the rotating object. If your pieces are suitably shaped, this should approximate the shape of your rotating object both when it is stationary and when it is in motion. The best shape for each one is probably a cuboid, although you could make them cylindrical with more than 4 faces if you liked/needed.
One image you might want to think of is the carriages on a Ferris wheel. While the wheel turns, the carriages stay the same way up the whole way round, but they trace out the path of a circle. The most useful thing you can do is to apply spawnflag 1 to your func_movewalls. This will make them visible, so that while you are building your map/testing out the idea, you can see what they are doing. Then hide them once you have the rotation working.
One nice thing about the way they work currently is it makes it very easy for a person to stay standing on top of something as it rotates(assuming you make the. In real life the player would have a sense of balance that you can't get from just playing with a mouse and keyboard. Making it easy for them to keep their footing is a good decision, which is why I'd recommend keeping the top surface of each movewall flat.
That sounds like a bug that could be fixed in something like Quoth.
It certainly could be made to happen without too much code, but it won't be changed. One reason is that it would annoy everyone who's used to the quake physics as they are. The other is the sense of balance argument again. Momentum not being imparted to a player might be because of the way quake handles motion on platforms(sticking their feet to the floor and updating their position when the physics is run on the platform). But it might also be a conscious decision, because it's much more natural to control the player like that.
Don't You Hate 'missing Closing Bracket' Errors...
#7007 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/21 19:58:26
(assuming you make the top of the movewall a flat surface)
Thanks Guys
#7008 posted by gb [89.27.212.15] on 2008/02/22 20:54:58
That was really what wasn't clear to me, that you should put the movewalls inside the rotating model.
I made a test map with some visible movewalls and the lightbulb went on in my head when I watched the doors from various angles. Very interesting to see the stairstep effect... incidentally that means I could use the back of a "drawbridge" type door as a ladder, since I was using 16 unit high movewalls that somehow didn't remain perfectly vertical in a perfectly vertical door brush. Gosh. Since my editor only lets me adjust things to a 8 unit precision, this isn't fixable (OK, perhaps in a text editor.) I'd need to use a func_togglewall as a momentary clip brush when the door is up. Or something.
The only thing that doesn't work is a rotating lift, at least it doesn't work "well". This is because the movewalls on which the player is standing go into the stairstep effect when the lift is rising, and this stair is rotating while the player stands on it and the whole thing raises, making it a very rough ride. I decided that rotating lifts are stupid, I just did it to see if I could :-P
The collision will probably be good enough to do all kinds of traps, machinery that isn't touched by the player, levers, cogs, and doors and hatches.
It looks like rotating trains are not very useful. Most kinds of rotating doors seem like overkill,too, when the novelty wears off... machinery seems good though...
I'll upload the map when it's finished.
By the way it seems like rotating things are lit in position, not at 0 0 0 (or was it worldspawn?) because I saw some shadows that exactly matched doorposts etc. Suspicious. I used Tyrutils.
Q1rad Sky Lights
#7009 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/02/22 23:12:27
For the record, so it will be findable in the internet in the future, as it's not mentioned in the readme.
When using q1rad to light maps, add the sky texture in the lights.rad, then make a point entity with name
"light_environment"
with fields _light, pitch, angle
And let every sky you want to emit light see it.
My lights.rad includes this line:
SKY9_1 255 0 0 75
And my map has a point entity:
light_environment with the fields
_light 200 200 200 200
pitch -60 -60
This functionality is NOT DOCUMENTED ANYWHERE. Big thanks to Asaki for helping me out on this, for the second time through.
(He adds that "Pitch and angle are both one number." which makes sense of course)
#7010 posted by Drew [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/23 05:06:02
Does anyone other than Neg!ke and Efdat use Quest? is it awesomer than WC?
Radiant Entity Definition With Notes
#7011 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/23 09:17:28
/*QUAKED light_environment (0 .7 .5) (-8 -8 -8) (8 8 8) START_OFF
Used to create sunlight or outdoor lighing with Q1rad. Must be placed near a sky brush.
Keys:
"_light" sets brightness
"pitch" sets the vertical angle (-90 = straight down)
"angle" sets the horiztonal angle
*/
Btw
#7012 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/23 09:21:01
Lights.rad is optional and is only required if you want surface lighting (of course, this might be a very good idea with sky brushes!)
Here's the info from the readme, this part at least is documented:
Now, in order to use surface lights, you must create a file called "lights.rad" You can optionally create a file called "levelname.rad" with "levelname" being the name of your level without the .bsp extension. In that file are the surfacelight descriptions. To edit it, feed it to your favorite text editor. Each line should contain the following format
<texture name (capitalized)> <red> <green> <blue> <intensity>
So if you wanted to make the texture +0slip a strong red with 200 intensity, you'd add:
+0SLIP 255 0 0 200
So that for any lights you want to be surfacelights.
Yes Just To Say That I DID Read The Fucking Manual
#7013 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/02/23 12:10:11
but the skylight part is not documented in the docs that come with q1rad and the internet is devoid of such documentation as well (until now in this thread finally).
(I use WC and not radiant).
Bambuz
#7014 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/23 17:30:01
Yeah, I figured as much but I was posting that info for those that don't have it. It's quite possible to have q1rad.exe without the readme (there's some zipped versions floating around without it).
At least Riot had a link to the VERC page about light_environment, but as you know it's dead now. Pity he didn't put the actual info in the readme. Thank you for posting it for those that don't have the knowledge.
#7015 posted by Spirit [80.171.52.122] on 2008/02/23 17:38:04
Since it is very hard to find I uploaded it:
http://www.quaddicted.com/files/q1...
That's the full zip with readme and example map.
I already forgot who gave it too me in the end but thanks again!
Drew
#7016 posted by negke [82.82.174.108] on 2008/02/23 20:10:49
IK used it too.
I guess Quest is just as quirky and confusing as WC when trying it for the first time. Takes some time getting used to it. I prefer its view modes. You can use the standard three-window view most editors have (albeit not forced to 2D mode exclusively) or one large window and switch between 2D and wireframe or shaded/textured/lighted view. Unlike other editors this one has a stronger focus on the 3D wireframe view - I find the fixed 3-axis 2D view of other editors to be awkward and inflexible, though it's probably a matter of taste.
I grew to really appreciate it's 'click-brush' (brush drawing) feature and the pretty accurate leak detection.
However, one has to learn quite a few key shortcuts to use it proficiently and since it's more or less a DOS program, there might be some compatibility issues. Always ran fine on my XP (apart from rare freezes). Unfortunately my new graphics card doesn't like Quest's palette, so I have to run it on Linux now. :P
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images...
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images...
Neg|ke
#7017 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/23 21:32:34
The map looks cool: is that a Doom-ish map ?
#7018 posted by gb [89.27.241.142] on 2008/02/23 21:49:54
I also use Quest and have become quite fond of it. It has some little features like selecting 20 func_movewalls and setting spawnflag1 on all of them, and more stuff like that. Also texture locking which is useful, and texture rotating, scaling etc.
The key shortcuts are nice and configurable.
The screenshots from mine are very dark though. I mean _really_ dark.
The downside to Quest is the crappy UI, the fact it is no longer developed and some random crashes, I use the save function really often.
#7019 posted by negke [82.82.174.108] on 2008/02/23 22:36:28
JPL: no, it's quakish :P
I forgot to mention, even though it doesn't have hardware support, the texture view is pretty precise and in combination with the (admittedly extremely slow) polygon mode, which let's you align multiple textures on different planes by visual offset, allows for very neat texture work.
gb: I never use texture locking though. I hate how it changes every face to some strange values even if you just move the brush slightly. If you have slanted faces or rotations, it totally screws up the aligning. I often pressed it by accident only to find out later on when a good chunk of the map suddenly looked borked.
#7020 posted by gb [89.27.241.142] on 2008/02/23 22:52:20
I often pressed it by accident only to find out later on when a good chunk of the map suddenly looked borked.
Haha, I know that :-)
I use texture locking for crates etc. when I copy-paste them. It seems to work for me. Anyway, the face mode (texture alignment) is rather comfortable, so doing it manually isn't too bad. But when I have 20 crates it gets tedious.
I was SO glad when I found out how to set spawnflags and targetname for multiple entities at once. ^^ The 3D view is rather comfortable I think, I do most things in that. Like selecting brushes and faces. Even copy and paste.
I haven't found out how the group stuff works, do you ever use that neg!ke? Does it let you hide or copy and paste groups?
#7021 posted by negke [82.82.174.108] on 2008/02/23 23:18:10
Yes, groups are useful in large maps with complicated brushwork or if there's a considerable amount of DM/SP-only stuff. ALT+G opens the group window. Select some brushes (or entities), press ALT+G and "create group". You can change their colors and hide them. Not sure about copy/paste.
Btw. you can align multiple faces in the same plane with the regular face edit window. It always uses the texture and settings of the last selected face.
#7022 posted by negke [82.82.174.108] on 2008/02/23 23:20:59
See here: http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/do...
If you flag "s", selecting one brush from the particular group will automatically select all its brushes (then c/p).
Cool, Thanks
#7023 posted by gb [89.27.241.142] on 2008/02/24 01:37:05
Useful stuff. So creating groups works like creating models.
Neg|ke
#7024 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/24 02:14:18
Cool shots - SP or DM in mind?
Houston, We Got...
#7025 posted by gb [89.27.241.142] on 2008/02/24 02:31:02
pf_precache_model: overflow
-> segfault...
bspinfo says I have 211 models, is that already too much? Isn't 256 the limit?
I could use some help here, I'm stuck until this is resolved.
#7026 posted by Drew [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/24 05:24:12
The brush drawing feature sounds pretty cool. Don't think I'll be picking up any new editors though, since I'm too comfortable with wc.
PS - nice shots, as always.
Negike
#7027 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/02/24 06:23:05
dude, that balcony looks badass.
Precached Models
#7028 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/24 09:54:41
BspInfo only tells you about the brush models (e.g. doors) in the bsp, it doesn't count all the alias models (e.g. monsters) that in the engine will be added from QC.
So already 211 brush models is pretty much and apparently is enough to put you over the limit. With my engines, you can see how many models that are required.
I've just also noticed that the limit is 256 for precached models, but only 255 for sounds due to a bug in the server code.
Max Limits
#7029 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/24 10:15:24
Is there a document that explains what are the maximal limit values in quake, like edicts, maxsurfedge, maxmarksurface, entities, etc... ?
256 Models
#7030 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/24 10:44:41
Presumably the 256th model wouldn't ever display in game, as it would have modelindex 0, which is the invisible model...
JPL...
#7031 posted by distrans [121.44.114.170] on 2008/02/24 11:03:17
...I started one ages ago, but each time I got close to putting it out someone released a new engine that changed the previous limits :) Some engines have remained stable with respect to some limits I suppose...
#7032 posted by negke [82.82.161.89] on 2008/02/24 11:30:23
gb: You can save some brush models by e.g. turning all individual func_walls of room into one large entity (if visibility permits it) and trigger_counters as well as trigger_teleports in monster cabinets into point entities.
JPL, distrans: The standard engine limits are listed in the glquake-bjp readme.
Neg|ke
#7033 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/02/24 16:22:55
Thanks a lot for the information: I'll check it right now !
#7034 posted by gb [89.27.212.88] on 2008/02/24 18:59:09
Thanks, AguirRe. That makes sense.
It appears my rotating lift alone contains 133 "bmodels", 132 of which are func_movewalls.
Another problem with rotating stuff... all those movewalls will rapidly increase the brush model count. And it looks like they need to be brush models and not point entities.
Think about this: A normal rotating door might have 8 or 12 movewalls, plus the door bmodel(s). Four of those could already add 50 bmodels... then I tried to make all crates in the map breakable, which apparently is not a good idea at all... 20 more bmodels... that's 70... and then I have this sucker of a rotating lift cabin. ^^ All this is not counting the monsters.
So it's rather easy to have over 200 bmodels like that. You live, you learn.
Neg!ke, thanks for the tip with the point entities. I use the Quoth spawning already though, so I don't even have monster trigger_teleports. I'm not even using func_walls yet, but that sure sounds useful.
This map has only 5 rooms and some corridors yet, btw. and only 6 or 8 monsters already placed. And wham, it breaks the model limit. ^^
Good opportunity to learn how to creatively save entities without being too obvious, I guess...
this game gets more and more interesting...
"monster Only" Teleport
#7035 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2008/02/24 20:03:56
Is there a way in standard quake to make a teleport that teleports only monsters but not the player?
Neg!ke...
#7036 posted by distrans [121.44.114.170] on 2008/02/25 08:55:49
...oh good, there is a list of the standard limits. Might be useful at some stage...ta mate!
VIS Times/portal Numbers
#7037 posted by Simulacrum [92.235.168.138] on 2008/02/26 21:53:03
I have recently completed a Q1SP map, which has roughly 20,000 portals. It is hence taking a very long time to VIS -level four it. Is 20,000 portals much larger than a normal map, and if so, what can I do to remedy it?
Thanks.
Well
#7038 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/02/26 23:06:55
Make some complex things func_wall entities?
Make sure complex geometry doesn't see other complex geometry (curved or dogleg corridors..)
Send a fast-vised or non-vised version to some mapper for testing.
#7039 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/27 00:11:56
Basically, either reduce visibility via level design (90 degree corners, etc), or reduce the polygon count (make trim flush with walls rather than sticking out, func_walls, etc).
There's really no magic to VIS, just lots of tedious work. :)
Speaking Of Vis...
#7040 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/02/27 00:24:48
How goes the vis project with the map I sent you Willem?
Simulacrum
#7041 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/27 01:05:32
Yes, 20k portals is very big, with older vis tools you wouldn't even be able to vis it at all, make sure to use an enhanced vis that can handle it (mine does and I think Tyrann's works, too).
Also, make sure to use a modern qbsp that doesn't create bogus prt files with a huge amount of portals, all wrong. Again, mine and Tyrann's should do.
For more info about improving vis times, see my ToolTips doc.
#7042 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/02/27 11:57:16
"How goes the vis project with the map I sent you Willem?"
My interest sort of petered out there, sorry. I got caught up in other stuff but thanks for sending it along anyway!
Portals
#7043 posted by gb [89.27.227.155] on 2008/02/27 17:17:10
Yup, mine has 20000 portals, too. Fastvis is bearable, fullvis is ... not nice.
Both Tyrann's and Lord Havoc's tools can handle it. So should AguirRe's.
I'll not do that again, though :-)
Question: Do any Q1 tools support Hint brushes?
Question 2: Do sky brushes block vis the same way that normal brushes do?
#7044 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/02/27 17:52:33
Answer ( short ): No.
Answer ( long ): Support would be required not only in the compilers, but in the .bsp format and the engines. This issue appears on Func perennially.
Answer 2: Yes.
Talking About Vis Blocking:
#7045 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/27 17:56:31
If there are two rooms next to eachother with say a 32 unit wide wall between which is just one brush; is this less effective at blocking than 2 separate walls with a void in between?
Hint Brushes
#7046 posted by negke [82.83.29.202] on 2008/02/27 18:34:43
Alexander Malmberg's qutils have hint, detail and skip brush support, and while I've never tested it, I'm pretty sure they don't require any special engine.
#7047 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/27 18:58:51
Unless I misunderstand hint brushes, it would only be the BSP compiler changing. The hint brushes simply suggest cuts, don't they?
I Love D3 Engine
#7048 posted by PuLSaR [80.80.111.129] on 2008/02/27 22:14:12
because it has no vis
Ricky...
#7049 posted by distrans [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/28 00:56:09
...take a trip in noclip. If the brush you are talking about is solid than you should see a void in between anyway :)
Quake does not draw brushes, it draws faces on some of the internal surfaces of volumes.
#7050 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/02/28 07:36:35
Unless I misunderstand hint brushes, it would only be the BSP compiler changing. The hint brushes simply suggest cuts, don't they?
Ack, you guys are right. I was getting confused with detail brushes. My bad.
#7051 posted by gb [89.27.246.103] on 2008/02/28 19:01:14
No need for hint brushes anymore, it turns out that hvis isn't terribly effective and thus half of the map was drawn at once. This doesn't happen with tyrutils or aguirRe's utils.
Cheers For The Help
#7052 posted by Simulacrum [92.235.168.138] on 2008/02/28 22:21:45
I've managed to reduce the vis level four time by about a factor of four.
#7053 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/28 22:37:12
Nice! Definitely pays off to invest a little effort in your VIS times. Pays off in spades at the end when you want to iterate on the map and tweak things.
I Wasted Several Days...
#7054 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/29 12:54:56
...trying to get sickbase to vis in a reasonable time frame. Unfortunately I started my first final level 4 vis and then after about three days it because apparent that it was going to take a hell of a long time, so I went back and re-worked my arrangement, turned as many things into func_walls as possible, then set it off again. And then I had to do it AGAIN after another couple of days, because although it was going faster than before, it was still gonna take a hell of a long time.
Wasting a couple of days then stopping it, re-working and starting again will save a lot of time in the long run. Half an hour of map adjustments can equate to weeks less vis times, when doing horrible open planned maps!!
Getting it as efficient as possible first time is even better!! :P
Line 3: Because = Became
#7055 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/29 12:56:05
Some Stuff
#7056 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/29 13:20:59
hvis is rubbish, I'm sorry to say. I'm only amazed that you even got it to work at all.
Also, fuck the optimization, how about just don't make stupidly open maps in the first place?
p.s. I didn't really mean fuck the optimization. I'm not sure how you'd accomplish that, though it might be an interesting experiment.
.qc Aid
#7057 posted by Simulacrum [92.235.168.138] on 2008/02/29 14:35:42
I'm attempting to turn the shotgun in to a weapon which delivers a short, three round burst and then is unable to shoot for a second. So far I have only been able to create one which has a two round burst, through modification of the weapons.qc W_Attack() function and the inclusion of a new function which calls both player_shot1() and W_FireShotgun():
void() W_ThreeShot = {
player_shot1();
W_FireShotgun();
};
...
else if (self.weapon == IT_SHOTGUN)
{
W_ThreeShot();
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = W_ThreeShot;
self.nextthink = time +0.1;
self.think = W_ThreeShot;
self.attack_finished = time + 1;
}
The last self.think function appears not to be called. There isn't a wait function or something in qc, is there?
This is probably a laughably simple problem, excuse my lack of coding understanding.
#7058 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/29 15:42:45
You can't stack self.think calls like that. It's not a queue. So:
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = W_ThreeShot;
self.nextthink = time +0.1;
self.think = W_ThreeShot;
Is the same as:
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = W_ThreeShot;
You'll need to add a counter variable that gets checked in W_ThreeShot or something so that it stops firing after the third shot.
#7059 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/29 15:44:06
"Also, fuck the optimization, how about just don't make stupidly open maps in the first place?"
It's a fun challenge sometimes, but if you're building those areas then - yeah, you really give up the right to bitch about VIS times. Heh.
Willem
#7060 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/29 16:01:31
Yeah, I'm just shitstirring anyway. Ignore me :)
Found A Solution
#7061 posted by Simulacrum [92.235.168.138] on 2008/02/29 16:10:02
I edited the animation stuff in player.qc to call the W_ThreeShot function, and changed the animation to have the shotgun shoot three times rapidly.
Works quite well, bit like the battle rifle.
#7062 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/29 16:12:20
Oh yeah, that's a good solution too!
My Map ATM
#7063 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/29 16:18:54
has appalling vis blocking in the central hub area (look at my last screenies ^^^ ), but all of the tunnels and rooms around them, I have spent a l00t of time making sure that blocking is present and as functional as possible!
Besides, vis works really well on a core2duo ! (AguirRes)
#7064 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/29 16:27:39
Is it multithreading? If not, that 2nd core isn't doing you much good. :)
Actually...
#7065 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.144.120] on 2008/02/29 16:30:17
That 2nd core is allowing you to keep using the PC happily while VIS chugs away in the background. It's pretty nice!
Three Shots
#7066 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/29 16:33:18
What Willem said was totally correct, but there's an easier way to make it fire three shots, which will also give you better control over the animation of the v_weapon and player. The trick is to create a set of new animation functions in player.qc, which will handle the shots as the frames are played.
void() player_multishot1 = [$nailatt1, player_multishot2 ]
{
self.weaponframe=1;
self.effects = self.effects | EF_MUZZLEFLASH;
W_FireShotgun();
};
void() player_multishot2 = [$shotatt1, player_multishot3 ]
{
self.weaponframe=2;
self.effects = self.effects | EF_MUZZLEFLASH;
W_FireShotgun();
};
void() player_multishot3 = [$shotatt2, player_multishot4 ]
{
self.weaponframe=3;
self.effects = self.effects | EF_MUZZLEFLASH;
W_FireShotgun();
};
void() player_multishot4 = [$shotatt3, player_multishot5 ] {self.weaponframe=4;};
void() player_multishot5 = [$shotatt4, player_multishot6 ] {self.weaponframe=5;};
void() player_multishot6 = [$shotatt5, player_multishot7 ] {self.weaponframe=6;};
void() player_multishot7 = [$shotatt6, player_run ] {self.weaponframe=7;};
If you've not seen qc animation notation before this might all seem a bit complicated, but it's really just shorthand to save some typing, and worth knowing if you ever want to edit monsters. I'll use player_multishot6 to explain how it works:
Each line defines a function to be used as self.nextthink. The first value in the square brackets specifies the frame to store in self.frame, in our example $shotatt5. The next value tells you what value to assign to self.nextthink at this frame, in this case player_multishot7. Since each frame function sets a new one, you get a chain of animations. It should be noted that although it's not written anywhere, self.think = time + 0.1 is added by the compiler when it sees this shorthand code, to give the 10fps quake models use.
After the square brackets come a set of curly brackets, which basically allow you to add any amount of extra code to your animation function. In our example we add self.weaponframe=6 to update the animation of the weapon. You'll notice that we exploit this capability further in the first three frames by sticking W_FireShotgun in as well. This means that in your W_Attack code you only need
else if (self.weapon == IT_SHOTGUN)
{
player_multishot1 ();
self.attack_finished = time + 1;
}
You'll probably need to prototype player_multishot1 at some point. One of the hidden advantages of the animation shorthand notation is that it prototypes the functions automatically, when otherwise you would need to list the frame functions in reverse order or create a bunch of prototypes.
Grrr
#7067 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/29 16:34:25
Shoulda refreshed the thread, you've done exactly that. I snuck an extra $nailatt1 frame in there so that he's moving a bit more during the radip fire sequence.
#7068 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/02/29 16:38:34
"That 2nd core is allowing you to keep using the PC happily while VIS chugs away in the background. It's pretty nice!"
Sure, there's always that. I was referring more to not doing you much good on the VIS side of things.
BTW, my Mac has dual core, uses a multithreaded VIS, and I can still use the computer just fine while it's compiling. Probably because the OS was coded properly - but I digress!
P.S. I joke, I kid, don't go there plz. :)
Heh, No Worries Preach!
#7069 posted by Simulacrum [92.235.168.138] on 2008/02/29 16:58:21
It's the thought that counts.
I Dunno About AguirRe's Vis/core 2 Duo
#7070 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/29 17:50:20
But fast vis on my map:
Old Athlon XP 1700 = about 1 min 30 sec
New Core2Duo(6750/2.66Ghz) = about 20 seconds!
Go figure
Worth Pointing Out Also
#7071 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/02/29 18:08:42
The map is bigger than it was, which makes vis time even more disproportionate to the increase in single thread processor speed (2.66/1.7ghz?)
Tyrlite 0.4 is a bit faster than it was on the old XP1700, but mot that much faster...
Weird, eh?
Willem
#7072 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/02/29 19:09:36
I don't think any Windows user is going to argue that XP / Vista is coded properly, or even well thought out.
The Fucking Door
#7073 posted by gb [89.27.213.224] on 2008/02/29 20:26:05
I have a door with the start open and toggle flags set.
The door itself is working, but the triggering fails.
It is targetted by two different entities, the first is the gold key, which should toggle it shut. The second is a trigger_counter with three monsters attached. Which should re-open it.
So. The door doesn't move one inch. Where am I fucking up?
I Forgot
#7074 posted by gb [89.27.213.224] on 2008/02/29 20:28:35
The three monsters are spawned by a relay which in turn is activated by the gold key. Using quoth.
But the door doesn't work even when I bind it to a simple switch instead of the key.
#7075 posted by negke [82.82.177.90] on 2008/02/29 20:29:21
door_dont_link?
Neg!ke
#7076 posted by gb [89.27.213.224] on 2008/03/01 02:29:08
Yup, thank you. That did it.
#7077 posted by Gnarler [71.246.202.238] on 2008/03/01 07:34:19
I am trying to get a rotating dopefish-head in my exit room. I would like to know the spawnflags for the rotating entities and brushes please.
Gnarler
#7078 posted by Spirit [91.62.33.242] on 2008/03/01 09:19:53
Unless your map already uses Quoth or Hipnotic stuff it is not worth it. Rotating requires you to use a mod (like those two) and is a bitch to setup.
http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/...
Alternatively you could create an animated texture that rotates the dopefish. :)
Multiple Skies?
#7079 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/01 15:49:27
Does Quake allow for multiple skies? Say, I want one part of my map to use the purple sky and another part to use the blue ...
Animated Texture
#7080 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/01 15:50:36
Is probably even more painstaking, but could pay off.
I wouldn't recommend rotating stuff, tbh - it's always a ballache.
And Spirit, thanks for Flipside; what a great little game.
Re: Multiple Skies
#7081 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/03/01 16:31:53
no, only one sky texture will end up being displayed, regardless of how many you use in the map. Either the first or last to appear in the .map file, can't remember which.
#7082 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/01 16:41:31
Seems to be the last.
Oh well, thanks for the confirmation!
Gnarler
#7083 posted by gb [89.27.199.46] on 2008/03/01 19:27:06
Look at my rotating entities testmap. The .map file is here:
http://shub-hub.com/files/misc/rot...
This is NOT a playable map. But you'll see how the rotaters are set up. I used quoth and I suggest you use that, too. Look at the func_movewalls especially and the target/targetname stuff on the rotate_object, info_rotate, func_rotate and func_movewalls. Always try to envision where the axis of rotation is. Experiment with the "angles" key until it does what you want.
Simple rotating doors or fans are rather easy to setup. For fans etc, you don't need the movewall stuff at all, just put a trigger_hurt with enough damage.
Preach, Or Any QC Genuis
#7084 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.127] on 2008/03/01 22:07:26
I want to run an idea by you for its feasibilaty before actually screwing around with QC, if it is destined to be a waste of time.
My idea is to create a realistic door model (.mdl), have it swing out as if it were hinged. Is it possible to have an animation sequence accomplish this, and then kill the bbox so a player can go through the portal it previously blocked? It seems some games (NOLF I believe is one)use a method like this where the door becomes a nonsolid, and it isn't detrimental to the game play.
Yes
#7085 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/01 23:10:06
n/t.
Ok, kidding. The easiest way to do this is with a func_togglewall, look at the source code from the hipnotic mission pack for how to do that. They do some really weird stuff to make the entity nonsolid though - moving it 8000 units on every axis so that it's outside the playable space in quake. You could achieve the same thing by just removing the blocking entity if you're ok with it never returning.
Thanks,
#7086 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.38] on 2008/03/02 02:42:56
I forgot about that. Reminds me, there is a similar entity type in the Extras package as well that switches out bmodel brushes to simulate affected conditions (a submarine hull getting squished due to an air pressure collapse is one set up I got working quite well). I'll get to work on this.
Next QuakeC Question
#7087 posted by gb [89.27.199.46] on 2008/03/02 05:43:51
Teleporter that waits for trigger, then works normally. My info_notnull experiment didn't work out.
I could probably use a func_wall to cover it or something, but that'd be crude... is it possible with info_notnull?
Targetting
#7088 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/02 11:26:00
The problem you're running into with the info_notnull is that you're creating a teleporter with a targetname. trigger_teleport with a targetname always wait to be triggered before they will teleport anything. So there are two fixes depending on whether you need monsters to be able to take the teleporter or not. If not, then the solution is quite simple - add another info_notnull which will create a trigger_multiple on the same location as the trigger_teleport, and which targets the trigger_teleport.
If you need this to be a full teleporter then you need a pair of trigger_relays repeatedly targetting the trigger_teleport(or does this work with a singe one targetting itself?). At a frequency above 5 times a second the trigger_teleport should stay on all the time, 0.1 seconds between triggers would probably be best.
Preach
#7089 posted by gb [89.27.233.144] on 2008/03/02 18:59:52
more thanks to you :-)
A trigger_relay flipflop. Cool.
What Is
#7090 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/03 12:28:58
a clipnode?
(I will get round to looking at these other two releases ASAP but im too busy ATM :P )
#7091 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/03 15:44:02
Im only askin' cause ive got 28023 of them and I know I'm only allowed 32762, and I want to know what a 'clipnode' is so I can make sure I dont have any unnecessary ones.
Every Time You Use The Clip Tool On A Brush, That's A Clipnode
#7092 posted by czg [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/03 15:46:05
To avoid clipnodes you should use vertex editing instead.
28000 clipnodes? Wow! I average like 400-500 in my maps.
Yup
#7093 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/03 15:55:01
I use the clip tool all of the time. I used to use the carve tool, i.e make a brush in the shape of the part I wanted to clip off, then carve it into the brush I was wanting to shape. But the clip tool is really great when you realize what it does.
I thought I was gonna hit marksurfaces first. But ive got 275## of those, and more clipnodes.
I have trouble understanding what these things actually are. I know I can reduce marksurfaces by lifting things 1 unit off the ground, or 1 unit away from walls.
And I know that the world model is made up ultimately of triangles:
Is one triangle one marksurface?
Is a clipnode part of the model, part of the mesh?
Im guessing "not" for the latter of the two questions in the above sentance, as czg, you say its more to do with the way you shape your brushes using the clip tool.
Confusing.
Lol
#7094 posted by czg [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/03 16:08:08
Stop Listening To Me You Crazy-ass Cracker
#7095 posted by czg [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/03 16:08:47
#7096 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/03 16:09:27
Awesome.
Ahh - Well Thanks For The Info...
#7097 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/03 18:19:56
?
Somebody Must Know What A Clipnode Is... ?
#7098 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/03 18:24:13
After all of these years........
#7099 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/03 18:51:17
In looking around the web, I found this:
struct clipnode
{
// Index into planes lump
unsigned int plane_idx;
// If > 0, then indices into clipnodes; otherwise, contents enum
unsigned short children[2];
};
So, it would seem, a clipnode is a split in the BSP that either results in a list of more splits or a content leaf.
To reduce them I guess you would use less brushes or do whatever you could to reduce cuts.
To Make Up, An Infographic
#7100 posted by czg [83.253.251.70] on 2008/03/03 18:58:55
This is GROSSLY oversimplified and I probably got it half wrong, but the gist of it and how it works in practice is this:
http://czg.leveldesign.org/stuff/c...
Place clip brushes over places the player can't get to. For instance if you have built some fancy brushwork up in a ceiling somewhere with lots of beams and trims and shit, block it away with a clip brush unless you need to player to rocketjump up there for some reason.
Or Isn't Also One Help
#7101 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/03/04 00:52:15
to make details that stick out of walls be func_illusionary... (They don't clip)
#7102 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/03/04 02:06:55
in my experience, that's how i've reduced clipnodes as well.
interestingly enough, in early versions (and probably still now?) of aguire's glquake, you could load maps with >32768 max clipnodes, but some areas would be non-solid. :P
Actually
#7103 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/03/04 02:17:45
with newer versions of aguiRe's enhanced glquake, you can play maps up to 65536 clipnodes with no non-solid areas. Anything beyond that though, and the map will start to freak out.
#7104 posted by negke [82.82.191.16] on 2008/03/04 09:09:06
With regular engines, clipnodes can be exceeded by roughly 10k before problems occur (e.g. monsters slipping through floors, being trapped on the outside). At least this was true for my qte2m6 - it may vary depending on the structure of the map.
Func_illusionary and other func entities don't reduce clipnodes, they add to them, especially if they are made of complicated brushwork or multiple brushes with spaces between each other (e.g. spikes in a tunnel).
#7105 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/03/04 09:11:48
Func_illusionary and other func entities don't reduce clipnodes, they add to them, especially if they are made of complicated brushwork or multiple brushes with spaces between each other (e.g. spikes in a tunnel).
Hmm, but i bet the same clip brush trick works on funcs as well... you could put an entire func_illusionary inside a cube clip brush, and then that model would have very few nodes
...
anyone know if that's true? :)
Sources Of Information
#7106 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 09:42:25
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea...
Hint: Search for "clipnode" ...
Clipnodes are only generated in hulls 1/2 (the clipping hulls), since they specify what entities "clip" (i.e. collide) against.
If you have a leak in either of these hulls or order qbsp not to fill them, the clipnodes will increase a lot.
I don't think illusionaries generate clipnodes as nothing collide against them, but all normal brush entities do.
Aguirre...
#7107 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/03/04 09:54:07
but the compilers don't know how the func_illusionary is going to be used; it doesn't know anything about the quakec code. So it should be treated the same as any other brushmodel.
Well, Thanks For The Information People!!!
#7108 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/04 10:21:36
I think I do know what a clipnode is. I've probably got so many because of my rock-work. And archways. Maybe I can block some parts off or something...
I might just tune my map so it hugs the limit. Its not at the limit yet.
Hm
#7109 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 13:10:19
I always assumed illusionaries didn't add to clipnodes, so the infamous spiky pit automatically became one (the spikes).
If this is wrong then does it mean that a door creates clipnodes from its starting position, even though it will move? I'm thinking of multi-part doors that could potentially produce alot of nodes. Also func-trains - only their starting position?
#7110 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/04 13:18:35
I think brush models are their own BSP trees inside the the master one, aren't they? In that case they would have their own set of clipnodes inside of them, independent of the rest of the level.
QuakeC Question
#7111 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/04 13:44:52
Does anyone know how to get the SVC_FINALE message to accept more than one string at a time? I changed the signature for centerprint and others to accept multiple strings like this:
void(entity client, string s, ...) centerprint = #73;
However, that doesn't seem to work for the WriteString function. I want to customize the text that gets displayed at the end of a game of Qonquer but I don't see how to do it. It only ever displays the first string when I do this sort of thing:
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_FINALE);
WriteString (MSG_ALL, "[qonquer]\n\nfinal stats:\n", "blargh" );
Or:
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_FINALE);
WriteString (MSG_ALL, "[qonquer]\n\nfinal stats:\n" );
WriteString (MSG_ALL, "blargh" );
The first example just plain doesn't work and the second example causes Quake to crash with an "illegible message" error or something.
Help?
#7112 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/04 13:46:38
Sorry, I mean the first example displays the first string but not the second. It doesn't totally fail or anything like that.
Clipnodes
#7113 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/04 15:04:33
Just wanted to say thanks for the info.
I know I already said thanks, but I was pondering what has been explained and realized that I can probably reduce my clipnode count by changing some func_walls to func_illusionaries! I have some pipes and bars with 12 sided cylinders func_walls where they touch walls/floors. So in theory if I turn them into illusionaries than they wont clip. I will test this l8R!
PS sorry Willem that you might have thought I was Preach. I dont know how to program C. People who do seem very clever to me!! ;P
PPS while your hot, why not knock me up a blood splat progs? I'll love you for ever!!! Also sod Quoth2 if you do, Ill put my map out with standard Quake + blood splat progs!!!!
Yeah
#7114 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 15:08:48
Only some of the QC functions can be overloaded like that, it all depends on how they were coded in the engine. I did exactly the same thing yesterday as a test to see if it could be done. In the first example WriteString just ignores additional string parameters, so you only get the first one. In the second case, your first string is null terminated, so the game thinks the command is over. It then reads the first character of your next string as a byte, assuming that it will be the start of a new message type. Unfortunately, "b" = 98 as a byte, and there is no SVC message with that number, so it causes an error.
So what can you do? Well, if you're willing to do a lot of messing about then the way forward is to send each character of your message as a BYTE rather than as one big string. So for instance, to send a finale print saying "killed n" where n is replaced by the number of monsters killed, you would send the following bytes:
31 //the SVC_FINALE code
107,105,108,108,101,100,12 //the codes for the characters 'k' 'i' 'l' 'l' 'e' 'd', ' '
floor(n/100) + 48//the code for the hundreds digit - assuming the number is between 100 and 999
floor( {n - 100 * floor(n/100)} / 10) + 48//subtract off the 100 column and work out the index for the 10s digit.
I'll leave how to get the units column for you to figure out. I've uploaded a mod that will let you test out what numbers correspond to which characters:
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/~ajd70...
Bind 9 to "impulse 9", 0 to "impulse 10" and p to "impulse 16". Then simply type a number between 1 and 254 to get that character.
Special characters worth knowing:
0: null terminates the string, ending that command
1: 'Chat message', makes text red and chat sound play
2: Sets red text without chat sound - possibly a toggle
10: New line character
48-57: digits 0 - 9
65-90: uppercase A-Z
97-122: lowercase a-z
On the other hand, you might feel this is a lot of effort to go just to make things work with the finale text. It'd probably be alright once you've got a function that automatically takes an input number and converts that to the stream of digits required.
#7115 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 15:27:36
Oh dear god. I'll give that a try once I've worked up the emotional fortitude.
Thanks for the info, Preach! Informative as hell, as always.
#7116 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 15:31:43
Is there a complete list of byte values and what they mean to Quake somewhere? If I had that, I might be able to work up a small utility program to save me tears in the future.
#7117 posted by czg [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 15:39:23
Wouldn't it be easier to find/hack a compiler that has string concatenation in it?
#7118 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 15:47:36
That's a good idea! I'm using FrikQCC. Is there something better that runs on Mac or, at least, has source code available?
Clip Brushes
#7119 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 15:49:53
OK, so in the Elder arena I have those gratings that run over the lava at a few points. The gratings are func_walls so I can remove them at higher difficulty levels.
However, monsters would NOT cross them so I covered them with clip brushes in the hopes that they would.
Still no dice.
How can I convince the monsters that, yes, it's safe to walk across the scary gratings?
Metl
#7120 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 16:11:03
That sounds correct, qbsp doesn't know that.
But I can't see how normal clipbrushes (that are world brushes) can help against clipnodes from brush ents, especially since the latter can be moving. The CSG process will only merge stuff within the same model.
And qbsp doesn't like clip texes on ent brushes ...
Willem
#7121 posted by negke [82.83.33.163] on 2008/03/04 16:17:41
Filling the holes with skip func_walls would be the most reliable way.
#7122 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 16:21:17
Does Quake support skip brushes? I thought it was just clip and trigger...
String Concatenation
#7123 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 16:32:10
I don't think there are any compilers that do this, and I suspect that there is no way to hack it in. You can't create new buffers to store strings in without engine extensions, and there's no way to access the individual elements of a string from QC. A string in QC is really just the pointer to where the array of characters is stored. These arrays are either loaded with the progs, loaded from the map data, or accessed from the 16 char array allocated for each player's name. The last one is about as dynamic as strings get in quake.
What could be hacked into a compiler is some kind of keyword/macro thing called _tokenize(string n) or something, which would do all the work of calculating the corresponding character index for each character in the string you feed it, and then send each byte as MSG_ALL or MSG_ONE. It would still only be useful for fixed strings liked "killed " above, not loaded frlom map data. But it would keep the code looking shorter and neater.
A slight step in that direction would be for each fixed string in the progs, create an array of floats, so killed would become
s_finale_killed[7] = {107,105,108,108,101,100,12}
Then you'd have a loop
while(i<7)
{
WriteByte(MSG_ALL,s_finale_killed[...
i = i + 1;
}
which writes it, which looks a bit better than a row of 7 WriteByte statements, and is certainly nicer for longer strings.
Additional: The idea of sending strings byte by byte is done to a huge extent in Pyrdon Gate, which is where I first heard of the idea. The source to v1.5 of this mod can be found here:
http://mindart.quakedev.com/code_c...
Look at menu/print.qc for a good idea of how it's all done there. One of the most valuable tricks you'll see is once you have a function
p4(float a,b,c,d)
which sends those four floats as bytes over the current channel, you can do stuff like
p4('D', 'a', 'm', ':');
which converts the characters to numbers for you, in this case printing "Dam:". This might be a frikqcc only trick, but it's worth a look.
#7124 posted by negke [82.83.33.163] on 2008/03/04 16:34:32
You need metl's skip tool (which removes all "skip" textures from the visible plane, thus making the func_wall invisible): http://www.celephais.net/files/new...
I don't know if the monsters were be able to walk on the grate if the clip brush was part of the func_wall. Skip is a safer bet.
Fixing A Hole
#7125 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/04 16:36:42
Be warned, if you do fill the holes with skip brushes, then they will also block grenades/rockets from going down the gaps, the holes are blocked in all but the visible hull.
Put Fireballs Coming Out Of The Holes
#7126 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/04 16:39:30
that way the monsters will be smarter for not walking over the holes.
There could already be fireballs coming out of the holes, I haven't looked at that map yet ;P
Willem
#7127 posted by negke [82.83.33.163] on 2008/03/04 16:54:26
I just gave it a brief test in your qarena map: You can make the monsters cross the grate by making the clip brush part of the func_wall entity. The brush must stay within the volume defined by the visible brushes.
#7128 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 17:09:12
Preach
That looks usable. Not great, but under the circumstances it seems like the best option.
Thanks again!
#7129 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 17:10:33
neg
I put a clip brush into the func_wall before and it didn't work but I'll try making it smaller so it just fills in the holes. I'll try that tonight.
#7130 posted by negke [82.83.0.74] on 2008/03/04 18:37:41
But did you also make it part of the entity?
#7131 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 18:39:00
Yeah, it was all part of the same func_wall - the regular brushes and the clip brush. The knights wouldn't set foot on it.
Hmm
#7132 posted by negke [82.83.0.74] on 2008/03/04 18:50:08
Odd. Those skinny bastards. Shambler and Ogre in my test map had no problems. BBox-related?
#7133 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/04 18:56:17
Unsure. I'll run some more tests as time permits. Maybe I'll just turn them into regular geometry and be done with it. Monsters who can chase you is better for gameplay than having gratings that disappear on Hard skill.
#7134 posted by negke [82.83.0.74] on 2008/03/04 19:02:38
You could also use trigger_monsterjump, of course.
Aguirre:
#7135 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/03/04 22:01:00
But I can't see how normal clipbrushes (that are world brushes) can help against clipnodes from brush ents...
Sorry, i meant to say add a clip brush to the entity, which encloses all the visible brushes... not add it to the world.
And qbsp doesn't like clip texes on ent brushes ...
I wouldn't say it doesn't like it, it's just that the model bounds are calculated incorrectly and the in-game physics cullboxes end up being too small (if the clip brushes extend outside the bounds of the visible brushes.)
It seems to work just fine with stock compilers and engines as long as the clip brushes stay inside the bounds of the visible brushes.
IIRC You Can't
#7136 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/05 00:59:03
have e.g. a door with only clip tex, then qbsp will spit out something like "entity with no valid brushes".
I don't know what'll happen if the door consists of several brushes and one of them is a clipbrush, maybe that's what you mean. It's probably a very unusual case, so behaviour might be unexpected ...
Aguirre:
#7137 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/03/05 01:33:11
true, brush entites need at least one visible brush.
In my experience, adding clips to a brushmodel that also has visible brushes works, as long as you follow the restriction i mentioned above. If you don't, the collision between the player and the entity will be buggy. (i think this might fixable in qbsp, by the way, by fixing the model bounds calculation.)
I've used clips on funcs in Antedilivian on a number of doors/bars to smooth player collision, so you can't climp up onto the lip, or into a recessed panel, etc.
Wait
#7138 posted by bambuz [91.152.85.201] on 2008/03/05 03:36:00
are we talking qbsp hull clipnodes (world) or those AND the entity clippy things whatever they are, added together?
Obviously the entities like func_wall or doors can't enter the hull forming process since they can move or disappear.
Neg...
#7139 posted by distrans [59.167.236.18] on 2008/03/05 03:55:39
I initially thought of monsterjumps as a work around, only problem arises if the jump is blocked by something on the other side. Hehe, the dumb Quake monsters don't look before they leap so they could potentially end up in the stew.
Bambuz:
#7140 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/03/05 04:32:54
qbsp generates a seperate bsp tree for each brush model, which includes hulls and nodes and stuff. Though, all the data ends up being stored together in the bsp file.
What Is...
#7141 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/05 11:03:10
...a clip brush?
#7142 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/05 11:33:14
It's a brush with the "clip" texture on all faces. It doesn't show up in game, it only collides. Allows you to smooth out rough edges so the player won't get snagged.
Useful
#7143 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/05 13:23:08
To funnel monsters sometimes as well.
A skip brush doesn't exist, really, but as mentioned before if you run metslime's skip tool on a map then it removes the visible face of all brushes that have a texture named skip. The difference being that the brush remains part of world collision - so grenades will still bounce off it and monsters have no problem walking over it.
Eh?!?!
#7144 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/05 13:29:09
Really - I dont get the difference. The only difference seems to be that you need to use a skip tool for a skip-brush but you only have to use a texture to make a clip brush... ?!
Or would I be right in saying that a grenade will fall through a clip brush but collide with a skip, but you can walk over both?
P P P P P : - D
#7145 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/05 14:33:32
"Or would I be right in saying that a grenade will fall through a clip brush but collide with a skip, but you can walk over both?"
Right.
QuakeC SVC_FINALE Resolution
#7146 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/05 14:34:52
OK, so I wote a quick utility in Cocoa that lets me type in strings and it spits back the necessary QuakeC to emit that text to the finale screen. I'll release the source once it's fully done and Qonquer is using it without issues.
http://wantonhubris.com/blog/2008/...
Wow!!!! - You're Clever!
#7147 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/05 14:44:05
But you should have made me a blood splat progs. :-(
(facetiousness is a virtue)
#7148 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/05 15:32:09
I'm not that clever. It's, like, 20 lines of code. :)
Y'know
#7149 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/05 15:44:11
I used to program BBC basic (I wasnt bad at it either, I managed to make a top down scrolling racing game once, sort of pong-style stop-the-ball from-falling-out-of the-screen-type-stuff)
And I can do html, css and a bit of xml
Maybe I should try a bit of Quake C.
Honestly though, it looks well hard!
#7150 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/05 15:59:44
QuakeC is a heavily stripped down version of C. If you have prior programming experience, the syntax is easy to pick up.
What is more difficult is learning how to do stuff within Quake. It's the same with any system or API, of course, but that's your stumbling block,
"Why doesn't that line of code work?"
"Why won't the monster turn to face me now?"
"No string concatenation, WTF?"
Once you get comfortable with what Quake does and how you can access it, you're golden. A few tutorial reads and a few posts here for Preach to answer, and you'll get it.
Base Map
#7151 posted by DaZ [80.41.139.181] on 2008/03/05 20:20:20
I was wondering if anybody needed a small base style map for anything? It could be easily turned into a start / skill select map or joined onto an existing base map, the reason is that I just don't have the time to finish this one sadly...
http://daz.quaddicted.com/images/f...
Maybe the basepak or quoth2 or something needs a start map? Let me know if anyone is interested.
DaZ
#7152 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/03/05 21:13:04
It looks really cool ! go map and finish it... or do a DM with this one ;)
#7153 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/05 21:19:49
Somebody turn it into a Qonquer arena. :)
Yeah...
#7154 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/03/05 21:21:54
use it as a start map for the base pack!
Ricky:
#7155 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/03/05 21:41:23
clip: players/monsters collide, but bullets/rockets pass through. Doesn't cast shadows or consume lightmaps. Doesn't affect vis time or r_speeds. Can be used to cover up normal brushes and you'll still be able to see the normal brushes underneath.
skip: it's really just an ordinary polygon that is invisible. It uses lightmap space, it cuts up the bsp and affects vis time, it blocks bullets, it casts shadows, etc. It can cause HOM due to the fact that when brushes touch, the touching surface area is removed.
Here's why: the bsp contains three independent "hulls," which are each built using the list of brushes in the map file. Hull 0 is the visible hull, a giant mesh of polygons that you see as you walk around the level. It is also used for collision for point sized entites and line-of-sight calculations. Hulls 1 and 2 are never visible, but used for collision for larger entities -- player sized entities use hull 1, and shambler-sized entities use hull 2.
clip brushes (clip must be an an entire brush, not just a face) are completely excluded from hull 0, but included when building hull 1 and 2. That's why they don't affect the visible stuff at all, or point entities, or bullets.
skip faces (since skip can be added to individual faces) are part of hull 0, and simply hidden from the engine so it doesn't render them. That's why they block bullets, cast shadows, affect vis, etc.
DaZ
#7156 posted by negke [82.82.161.91] on 2008/03/05 21:57:27
Maybe release it as GPL or something - whatever you do, just don't waste it on the Base pack.
Skip Vs. Clip
#7157 posted by generic [67.233.217.181] on 2008/03/06 01:27:26
You can create doors and other func's from skip brushes-- as long as one face is visible -- but you cannot create them from clip brushes. Right?
#7158 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/06 11:49:40
Right, creating them entirely from clip brushes makes QBSP angry.
Right, Right...
#7159 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/06 12:07:03
Metlslime - Thanks again for explaining clearly details of questions I keep chucking at this thread!! I actually UNDERSTAND now - good explanation!
So I cant reduce my clipnode count by using clip-brushes to simplify more complex surfaces.
I could use a clip brush to make it so that a player/monster cant go down a tunnel even if it looks like he could (Gears of War style).
Or I could use clip brushes to make a ladder!! Thats a good idea! Hmmm, got me thinking now...
DaZ: Shame you dont wanna finish that map, I recognize the map from shots on the Base Pack thread. Also think I've seen it on another website somewhere?
VERY COOL-LOOKING!
I'd be half tempted to try and finish it, but it wouldn't feel right...
Base Pack - YES PLEASE
Quoth2 - YES PLEASE
Neg/Metl - I actually think it would make a really good start map for "a" base pack. It has such distinctive architecture, and looks sooooo cool!
Quoth2 - Created a bit of a staemate really, hasnt it?
If it doesnt come out by the time I finish my world stuff, ya'll will have another Quoth1 map to play! Probably gona happen like that I would say. If you all had the same "easy come, easy go" attitude as me, base pack would have been finished ages ago :P
Staemate = Stalemate
#7160 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/06 12:07:23
Thans Industrial Textures
#7161 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/07 11:48:13
Hehe, quite embarassing this, but, er, does anybody know where I can download a WAD file for these? I did see a website a couple of weeks ago but I cant remember where it was. Its either "find the file" or "extract them from Guncotton.bsp". I would rather find the wad. I've looked on Quaddicted but I'm not sure what the file would be called and theres nothing obvious there...
:D
#7162 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/03/09 03:47:56
don't waist it on the Base Pack
like this basestart mapper
For Monsters To Cross Gaps
#7163 posted by gb [89.27.224.175] on 2008/03/10 11:13:20
you can use Quoth2's func_togglewall (the forcefield entity) with no particles.
It's invisible and they'll cross it. Like a glass bridge. I checked.
DM Map Sources Released...
#7164 posted by DaZ [80.41.168.130] on 2008/03/11 14:19:50
http://daz.quaddicted.com/misc.htm...
I have released the source files to 2 deathmatch maps
CRDM3 - http://daz.quaddicted.com/images/s...
SMALLDM2 - http://daz.quaddicted.com/images/s...
The download includes both map sources (rmf & map) the texture wad (wc wad and hammer wad and hi-res tga)and the lighting compile tools (dubsp and durad).
Feel free to do whatever you want with them, I really don't care :) Just include my name in the readme if anyone ends up releasing anything from them...
When I get time I will pack up and release some more sources.
I dont know if this qualifies as news
Glass In Q3A
#7165 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2008/03/15 16:43:14
I'm working on a Q3A map and I'm having trouble finding that cool glass texture. I'm using GTKRadiant so two questions:
1)Where can I find the glass texture?
2)How to use it, i.e., how to make glass?
You Mean
#7166 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/15 19:13:31
Q3 glass? That's basically an environment map - maybe something similar would be possible in Dark Places but I've no idea.
To make a transparent brush I'd use .alpha - but search in this thread from the beggining and you'll get a load of different methods on how to do it.
You won't be able to find the glass texture since the diffuse (as I remember) is a flat colour, and an envorment map alone is just a grey blob.
This Is One I Used...
#7167 posted by pjw [66.168.23.166] on 2008/03/16 03:43:05
...in one of my maps. You'll need to add it to mymap.shader in baseq3/scripts (and change the "pjw3dm5" to "mymap"
textures/pjw3dm5/lightglass
{
qer_editorimage textures/base_wall/chrome_metal.tg...
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm trans
qer_trans 0.5
cull disable
{
map textures/base_wall/chrome_metal.tg...
blendfunc add
rgbGen identity
tcGen environment
}
}
Just put it on either a patch mesh (for cool curvy glass), or on one face of a common/nodraw brush, and then add clipping as necessary.
For Fuck's Sake
#7168 posted by pjw [66.168.23.166] on 2008/03/16 03:45:19
Yes, that should be ".tga" on the end of those lines rather than ".tg..."
I like how the auto-magically shortened func_ version is longer than the original. That's pretty cool.
#7169 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2008/03/16 16:26:36
That worked - thanks! I'll modify it a bit to make it look more transparent.
Getting An Error On My Quake 1 Map
#7170 posted by Phenom [68.97.165.221] on 2008/03/18 18:54:02
I'm working on a map and its goin good but when a friend tries to test it out using DarkPlaces they get this error.
Mod_Q1BSP_RecursiveNodePortals: WARNING: new portal was clipped away Mod_Q1BSP_RecursiveNodePortals: WARNING: new portal was clipped away
The map is a "space map" as in if the player touches the far edges of the map in any direction they will be instantly killed with a hurt function.
Another issue I am have, you die instantly upon spawning in the level, I have checked to make sure the player starting point was not inside a hurt function, but I am still getting instantly killed when I load the map. The only way around being killed is to toggle the console within the split second the map loads and turn god mode on.
#7171 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/18 19:05:40
Sounds like one of your hurt trigger brushes is misshapen and Quake is extending it's volume all over the map or something. I would suggest checking them all and make sure they are all truly convex and on the grid.
Read This
#7172 posted by Spirit [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/18 19:06:04
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
And be aware that you _might_ run into bugs that are Darkplaces-specific and are not affecting other engines.
2nd Problem
#7173 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/18 19:16:17
One thing you should check is whether your spawnpoint at the start of the is positioned at the origin of the map. If it is then what may have happened is you've accidentally created a point sized trigger_hurt. This is basically a brush entity which has lost its brush, so the engine creates it as a single point at the origin of the map.
One way to test this out is to load it in the new version of quoth:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Turn developer mode on and run the map. If this is the problem, then you should get a warning message in the console saying a point sized trigger was removed, and when you spawn you shouldn't be killed by it.
#7174 posted by Phenom [68.97.165.221] on 2008/03/18 19:49:24
Turns out something was wrong with one of the trigger_hurt functions. I have removed all 4 trigger_hurt funcs for now.
Thanks to everyone who helped :)
I'll probably be back shortly heh
#7175 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/03/18 20:06:59
I'll probably be back shortly heh
Glad to hear it. I like space maps.
Preach
#7176 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/18 23:29:20
I get warnings in FitzQuake when loading my new map. Something about being "unable to find whatever/quake.wav"
Obviously its a Quoth2 map :P
Err... I was just wandering if you might know if its a Quoth progs thing or if its more likely to be something in my map, cause I cant see any reason for it...
Cheers!
Anyone Know Where...
#7177 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/18 23:52:23
...I can find a Quake Palette color index list?
#7178 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/19 00:03:25
http://gamers.org/dEngine/quake/wa...
The Quake Palette
#7179 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/03/19 00:35:54
http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/...
Sound Error
#7180 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/19 01:54:15
I'm guessing you put an info_screenshake somewhere in your map. This has two default sounds, misc/quake.wav and misc/quakeend.wav. These sounds come from the hipnotic mission pack, but neither of these sounds are supplied in the quoth download, which is an oversight. For now set both "noise" and "noise1" to "misc/null.wav".
Willem, Kell And Preach
#7181 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/19 11:06:56
Thanks for the info! You're very helpfull people!
Now I can have a red forcefield and no weird startup messages so thanks.
Oops
#7182 posted by DaZ [80.41.131.206] on 2008/03/21 00:47:51
I *somehow* (read : through utter stupidity) managed to delete all trace of the file s_explod.spr from my quake directory, I've even looked inside pak0.pak and it aint there, its all very odd and now I cannot play my beloved Quake :( Could someone please e-mail me the file??? My email address is in my profile.
Daz
#7183 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/03/21 01:13:07
Mail sent.
Thanks
#7184 posted by DaZ [80.41.131.206] on 2008/03/21 04:34:58
life-saver :)
Help
#7185 posted by spy [88.204.251.73] on 2008/03/22 06:05:15
z-fighting, how can i get rid of it?
I Think This Is What You Are Looking For
#7186 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.191] on 2008/03/22 07:06:58
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
Texture flicker while playing, "zebra-effect"
This is normally caused by the engine trying to render several textures in the same plane,
typically at some distance away. This is probably caused by overlapping brushes or e.g. a door
that isn't sufficiently encapsulated. In GL-engines you can also try setting the cvar
"gl_ztrick 0".
HeadThump
#7187 posted by spy [88.204.251.73] on 2008/03/22 07:41:23
thanx :)
Fitzquake Question
#7188 posted by spy [82.200.245.65] on 2008/03/23 21:33:53
when i try to load map with a fitzquake it crashes with allocblock:full what does it mean?
Untitled
#7189 posted by spy [82.200.245.65] on 2008/03/23 21:36:40
nevermind, i figured out it
Usually It Goes Out With A Bang
#7190 posted by bambuz [91.152.87.250] on 2008/03/24 04:19:59
but sometimes just a fitzquake...
Question
#7191 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 12:52:31
excessive lightmaps (90,normal =64) what does is mean, how can i reduce it? (the map has 1543 point ents, 118 solid ents) are lightmaps
only light ents, or every ent on map, ie mosters,ammo,light etc?
#7192 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/24 13:02:42
Lightmaps are generated for every BSP surface that accepts lighting. Basically, I think that error means you have too many faces in your BSP. Delete some brushes to reduce your lightmap useage.
Or
#7193 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/24 13:14:27
Increase texture scale. The bigger a texture is scaled up the less it requires in light.
Chances are you've got a void map with a large box enclosing the level. Sky brushes can have a texture size of 9999x9999 and look exactly the same in the game. You can also do this to trigger and clip brushes - though I'm not sure if they affect lightmaps.
Aside from this noclip outside the map and look for hollow spaces that aren't meant to be drawn, but are. Sometimes there can a wafer thin chunk of enclosed space that's adding to the compile times of the level.
Thanks
#7194 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 13:21:34
there are 7076 brushes,it seems i can't delete
some brushes 'cos of level architecture, the map is only loadable in aguirre's glquake, maybe tyrquake others crashed afaik.
(excessive marksurfaces ==39268 of 32767)
(excessive clipnodes ==48060 of 32767)
also what's benefit of using txqbspbjp over treeqbspbjp
No
#7195 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 13:27:03
it's not a void map, quite big though (almost 4096/4096 :) also there's no big box enclosing the level, it has no leaks also. compile time is qbsp~4min,light-full~30min, vis full~40min :)
Increasing Scale Of Trigger Textures
#7196 posted by negke [82.82.190.51] on 2008/03/24 13:30:51
reduces lightmaps (on large triggers), yes. They aren't affected by clip though. Sky textures are always drawn with a minimum of surfaces regardless of their scale (assuming you're using a somewhat modern compiler), unless they intersect with other brushes. Upscaling the sky is only important if it's made of a simple (solid) texture.
Also watch out not to have the sky cover large faces of adjacent brushes (if using transparent sky), for these count towards lightmaps as well.
#7197 posted by negke [82.82.190.51] on 2008/03/24 13:32:28
I guess if the map requires a high-limit engine anyway, you don't really have to bother with optimizing lightmaps.
#7198 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/24 13:34:21
Quake lightmaps triggers?!
Ok
#7199 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 13:38:39
Title: "Tower of Dal Gurak"
40529 faces
7076 brushes
1662 entities
103 unique texnames
7522 texinfo
8 texture frames added
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
6722 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
37900 brushfaces
28040 csgfaces
22457 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
54241 split nodes
26168 solid leafs
27198 empty leafs
876 water leafs
96502 leaffaces
90736 nodefaces
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-880 1883 332)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-884 1887 520)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (1025 -2924 -1632)
---- FillOutside ----
9540 outleafs
---- MergeAll ----
19464 mergefaces
---- SolidBSP ----
12630 split nodes
7517 solid leafs
4895 empty leafs
219 water leafs
34874 leaffaces
27869 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-1708 592 887)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (1000 -2910 -1344)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (1116 -3263 -1968)
5114 vis leafs
13598 vis portals
---- Tjunc ----
28552 world edges
98877 edge points
24014 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
*** WARNING 30: Clipnodes 48060 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 31: Marksurfaces 39268 exceed normal engine max 32767
---- WriteBSPFile ----
16021 planes 320420
41374 vertexes 496488
15826 nodes 379824
7522 texinfo 300880
31680 faces 633600
48060 clipnodes 384480
7503 leafs 210084
39268 marksurfaces 78536
147534 surfedges 590136
75477 edges 301908
111 textures 2360748
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 131911
Untitled
#7200 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 13:43:12
>I guess if the map requires a high-limit engine anyway, you don't really have to bother with optimizing lightmaps.
but the problem is the map is loadable in aguire's gl, it's seems many ppls prefer fitzquake usage (i don't mind when i'll release the map it'll require ONLY aguirre's engine, but this not solution)
#7201 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 13:49:47
neg|ke, as experienced mapper, would you mind if i'll send my map to you to look at it?
Uh, Ok.
#7202 posted by negke [82.82.190.51] on 2008/03/24 17:21:14
I can take a look at it. But with such a high marksurfaces/clipnodes count, it's unlikely the map will ever run in Fitzquake anyway.
Spy
#7203 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/03/24 17:22:23
According to my humble experience, it will also depends on the level of occlusion of the map. You can exceed the limits if not all the map is rendered at the same time by the engine. Fullvis the map, and try to load it in FitzQuake: you'll have the answer then...
JPL
#7204 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 17:47:05
it's already fullvised, and its crashed in fitzquake alas, dp also has troubles, the only
engine can load it's aguirre's gl, for me it's not a problem as i using only aguirre's eng. but other ppl prefer something differnt maybe
>neg|ke check yourmail
Spy
#7205 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/24 18:14:39
AguirRe's engine only for your map.
Thats it. People wont mind too much, as long as you write it clearly in the news post and in the Readme. I like your map, it'll do well. But you'll never cut it down it work in FitzQuake. To many limits are exceeded.
MAPPERS - KNOW YOUR LIMITS !
I wander what sort of discussions were held between AguirRe and Kinn when The Marcher Fortress was released... GlMarcher.exe??!?!
Than
#7206 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/24 18:18:24
Where did I see a reference to your Industrial themed texture set? I've been looking all over for it and kind find anything. I think I read about it on one of the Quake Expo sites...
Anyone help? :-D
Ricky
#7207 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 18:29:19
i like your map too, did u finish it
Ricky
#7208 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 18:29:32
i like your map too, do u finish it
Im Gonna Release It This Week!
#7209 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/24 18:46:26
Then start another...
Untitled
#7210 posted by spy [92.46.25.142] on 2008/03/24 18:58:52
that's a good news :)
ps. my english is terrible :(
Argghhh
#7211 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/03/24 20:19:51
I can't keep up playing with all these new maps...
.
#7212 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/03/25 05:33:40
i'm a little curious though, i mean, 7k brushes isn't all that much. the # of brushes don't seem to coincide with the amount of clipnodes, for example.
it's possible you've built the map in such a way to have excessive clipnodes, but i know from experience that maps in the 7k brush range shouldn't have that many clipnodes.
in fact, i had a 11k brush map that had only 36k clipnodes (still over the limit, but much < 48k).
i would check if the map isn't having any infinite planes or something at compile time... you could try looking at the bsp in quark as a start but that may not yield anything.
Necros
#7213 posted by spy [89.218.18.6] on 2008/03/25 06:53:27
look at above qbsp's output there're ~62errors
mostly 'Brush with duplicate plane'
Necros
#7214 posted by spy [89.218.18.6] on 2008/03/25 07:31:57
there're no infinite planes i'm sure, wc reports 6 invalid solids, but i think it's not cause a problem
Spy
#7215 posted by aguirRe [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/25 10:02:17
You could send me the 7-zipped bsp and I'll take a look at it.
Hah
#7216 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/25 11:59:34
Come on guys, releasing a map that will only load in aguiRe's engine is just poor. This from the readme of that engine:
This makes it ideal for mappers who at one time or another experience problems with their maps; there are leaks, entity overflow or other issues that prevent the map from loading in a normal engine. These problems should of course be fixed so the map can be loaded in any engine, but during development this engine can be used to help finding and fixing the problems.
I for one don't even have aguiRe's glquake on my machine. I'm sure it's fine and good for its intended purpose, but I'm not going to download, install and configure a new engine just to play 1 map.
Besides which, as far as I know there's only win32 versions available, so you're automatically exclusing mac/linux/other users by making the decision to only support that engine.
Well That Sucks Too!
#7217 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/25 12:07:50
I mean some people make maps which are bigger than the engine limits allow on purpose.
Did you refuse to play Marcher Fortress or W A R P S P A S M just because you aren't "going to download, install and configure a new engine just to play 1 map"?
Spys map is not over limits because of poor mapping. It's over limits because it BIIIIIGG!
It uses Marcher progs for god's sake. Play it with GlMarcher.exe end you'll be fine. Or Warpspasm.
Its a bit like complaining because your on-road car wont go off-road, having access to a 4x4 but refusing to use it because you cant be bothered, or something....
You might as well tell Kinn, Ijed and Me to fuck off too!
Heh
#7218 posted by Spirit [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/25 12:40:13
It all depends on the quality of the map if it justifies requiring a specific engine in my opinion.
Actually
#7219 posted by Spirit [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/25 12:56:58
What I mean is that it should be jaw-dropping and extraordinary.
Look at gmsp3: Day of the Lord, menk: Menkalinan and czg07: Insomnia. All work in any engine.
Untitled
#7220 posted by spy [89.218.0.88] on 2008/03/25 14:32:06
spirit- i can't campare my map with outstanding
work from glassman or czg, it's just an amaturish map, sorta speedmaping :)
frib- i always been your huge fan:) especially
pkeg1 map
aguirre- not sure 'bout 7z, could you accept rar?
7zip - Download Link
#7221 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/25 14:36:19
http://www.7-zip.org/
7zip is the mightiest zipper ever!!
Use it, and select 7z as the format, all the other settings to the highest or the biggest number, or whatever, then be stunned by:
A - how long it takes to compress, compared to other zippers
B - How small it becomes!
: D
Oh, Also
#7222 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/25 14:42:23
7zip is also a fantastic thing to have because it reads .rar and .zip files too. I havent found a compressed file which it wouldnt read. Also it can make .rar and .zip files too.
It fantastic !
Untitled
#7223 posted by spy [89.218.0.88] on 2008/03/25 15:11:24
ok, aguirre, i sent it
Crap
#7224 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/25 15:31:48
Wrote a reply to this and lost it somehow. Brain explosion or something. Anyway, the essence of it was, unless there's a very good reason why the map exceeds the normal engine limits (or has spanktacular new features that require new engine code) then why bother?
Seriously, why not just cut the map down or split it into 2 maps? Will it seriously destroy the gameplay? I doubt it. It will simply mean that more people are able to play your map, and everybody is happier. :)
Hmmmm . . .
#7225 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/25 15:39:20
You could split it up.....
thats not *actually* that bad of an idea...
And the Mac users - well - you know the one about the toothless blowjob....
Ricky:
#7226 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/25 15:46:12
I played Marcher because it came bundled with the required exe (which it damn well better do, if you expect me to play it) and because it was top drawer stuff.
Its a bit like complaining because your on-road car wont go off-road, having access to a 4x4 but refusing to use it because you cant be bothered, or something....
Not at all. You're assuming I want to go off-road. I don't. I'm quite happy here, putzing about on the standard old roads with my nice, familiar old engine. :)
Seriously, if you want me to play a map that won't load in FitzQuake, you had better prepare a pretty compelling argument as to why I should bother going out of my way to do so. Or make it as easy as possible to do it (e.g. include the required exe in the zip). Or both.
You might as well tell Kinn, Ijed and Me to fuck off too!
I might as well, but I won't. Besides, I like Kinn. Who is Ijed and what does he have to do with this?
Actually, on second thought, fuck off. Yes. All I'm doing is expressing my opinion, mate. It doesn't really have anything to do with you at all... does it?
Groan...
#7227 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/25 15:59:04
...I dunno, give an inch and they'll take a mile.
Lord, I dont want to have this debate. I have seen Spys map, and I dont want to spoil it for everyone.
Ijed is a legend! He made WARPSPASM. Full of maps which wont run in FitzQuake.
Anyhoo, I think Spys map uses Marcher Fortress progs. So you can run it under Marcher.exe. And you have to install Marcher Fortress to run the map anyway, so wheres the big inconvenience?
I dont want you to play any maps you dont want to, er, Mr Fribbles. If you see a map you dont want to play, then dont play it. It's a free country.
And we all know you dont like maps which break the mould, you were saying on the GA thread the other day, theres no need to repeat yourself.
Anyway, when I said that splitting the map into two might not *actually* be that bad of an idea, I wasnt kidding. It's a pretty obvious suggestion that I wouldnt have thought of. It would mean that Mac users can view the map.
On the other hand, it would make the set up process oven more complicated in a way, it would be a real Frankenstein job, dont you think - map running with Marcher progs, under Fitzquake. That'd be a first! Dont you think people might complain that it was 'too much messing around to set up'? Or something...
Fribbles
#7228 posted by Spirit [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/25 16:01:05
Please play Warpspasm:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Download: http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase...
#7229 posted by spy [89.218.0.88] on 2008/03/25 16:11:54
ha-ha, i thought about to split the map, but it'll ruin my vision of map, maybe i'll release 2 version of map one splited and one not, i dno't wanna after i'll release the map, everybody will complain 'too much ado about nothin' this map isn't that quality as 'marcher fortress'
Ricky....
#7230 posted by Mr Fribbles [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/26 02:33:56
And we all know you dont like maps which break the mould, you were saying on the GA thread the other day
Show me where I said that. What the fuck is your problem with me, anyway? All I was doing was expressing an opinion - am I not entitled to do so?
Spirit
#7231 posted by Mr Fribbles [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/26 02:36:58
I'm going to play it, just because you asked nicely. :)
As you can probably tell, I've missed a few Quake things in recent times.*
* as in, the last few years...
Spy
#7232 posted by Mr Fribbles [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/26 02:43:09
This is nothing personal regarding you or your map, spy... I am always bitching about this every time this issue comes up. Sorry.
I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason.
#7233 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2008/03/26 03:56:44
I put in the effort to ensure my maps run in FitzQuake. I am not flippant.
My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed.
Cheers
#7234 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.242] on 2008/03/26 04:03:57
My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed.
Somewhere in the Dimension of the Damned I hear Roy G Batty whooping a, 'That's the Spirit!'.
#7235 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.234.47] on 2008/03/26 06:12:18
Mr. Fribbles wrote:
I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days...In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason.
Spy wrote:
i thought about to split the map, but it'll ruin my -->vision<-- of map
50 monsters/3 secrets, good night ?
#7236 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/26 10:40:12
"I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason."
*raises glass*
Well said!
Hug And Kiss The Engine Limits
#7237 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/26 11:03:57
thats what I do. They're my friends. They let me know when to stop mapping cause the map is big enough! Funny how several engine limits will be touched at the same time.
I'm at the limit for Marksurfaces, Clipnodes and Bmodels. I think I must be pretty close to edicts too...
Its easier to avoid breaching engine limits when you know where they all are and how to monitor them....
Marcher
#7238 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/26 19:04:03
runs in winquake...
that's pretty impressive if you ask me :)
Ricky: I dunno what happened to the textures, but they were for Q3. I can send you the set if you like, but they aren't that great and you'd need to convert them to q1 format. You are probably better off using Sock's metallic industrial textures or trying the kingpin set, which work great in Q1. If you want to use kingpin, I can send you a tidied up version of the megawad that contains just the textures you'd be most likely to use and named nicely so that the Worldcraft doesn't fuck things up when it encounters certain texture names.
The KingPin
#7239 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.187] on 2008/03/26 20:34:27
textures that mix well with Quake also mix well with Evil Lair #3 set for a nice tech/industrial feel.
Hmmm...
#7240 posted by distrans [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/27 04:28:57
...what HT said :)
Kell: unfortunately, some people haven't :(
re: limits - Having a conversation with Baker on this point might be enlightening. His self installers are very popular for a reason. We worked hard to keep Travail playable in standard Fitz, and to make it as simple as possible to install (i.e. simple pak0) but still some people didn't play it till it was converted to self install. Go figure...
Sanity Check Time
#7241 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/27 10:51:32
I'm working on my remix here and ... OK, let's say there's a func_wall in a map covering up a teleporter. If that func_wall doesn't have a targetname and none of it's spawn flags are set, it's never going to go away right? It almost looks like they intended to have this teleporter be revealed at some point but then never bothered to hook it up.
Is that right or am I missing something there?
It's The Sort Of Thing I'd Do...
#7242 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/27 11:27:50
...like make hollow spheres which you're never gonna see the inside of!
They probably were on a time limit, and were rushing to get finished!
#7243 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/27 11:31:46
Oh no, it appears I'm wrong. The walls do indeed vanish in deathmatch. Weird. I thought you had to set all 3 skill spawnflags for that to happen. I guess setting none works as well.
Learn something new every day!
#7244 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/27 12:01:33
Oh god, never mind. This is how it's supposed to work.
Hi everyone, it's my first day mapping!!1!
Item_weapon
#7245 posted by negke [82.82.174.37] on 2008/03/28 10:19:36
+ spawnflags, mdl. Could this possibly be used for any nice trickery or compatibility issues?
Willem
#7246 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/28 12:38:43
You need to set the "not in dm" (worldcraft name, not sure of the number) flag, not the skill flags. Also, the flags work on just about any entity. Not sure about static ents like func_illusionary, walltorches and sounds, but you can set all trigger setups to not appear in dm. If you load dm3rmx in sp and then dm with showbboxes turned on in fitzquake, you can see the difference... it's a very big difference. I think I culled almost everything. apdm3 is the same - you might as well optimise using the flags as much as possible.
Quoth adds support for coopflags, but afaik they work a little bit differently to the other flags, so I'm not sure how reliable using those will be on things other than enemies and perhaps triggers. Preach will know.
Also, you can use spawnflags on info_intermissions and have different intermissions per skill setting or for dm, so you could even make some kind of ending to your map and emulate games like contra where you get a shit ending unless you do the map on hard :)
I Always Wandered Why
#7247 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/28 12:53:59
people put more than one info_intermissions in maps! (duh)
#7248 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/28 12:55:38
Welll, if you have more than one then Quake picks one randomly.
Thanks!
#7249 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/28 13:01:18
I didnt know that either!
Infact it took me to this map to realise that you can set a mangle key. Weird tho - the first number (yaw?) seems to be the negative of what it would if it was a light mangle key. i.e. -15 deg = 15 deg.
Either that or i've gone mad
:D
Coopflags
#7250 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/28 13:07:32
Coopflags should work correctly on all entities currently in quoth, the main difference between them and normal flags is when the removal occurs. The engine removes things with spawnflags before the spawnfunction for that entity is run. We can't do that for coopflags, because the first time an entity appears to us in QC is when the spawnfunction gets called. So instead, an entity with these flags is removed under two circumstances:
1) If it is made into a static entity - so you can remove torches in coop - although one might ask why you'd bother.
2) At the start of the first frame.
Any kind of entity will be removed if it has these flags, but the difference is the spawn function will already have run, resulting in two pitfalls. So firstly the precaches for all entities will be run regardless of their coopflags. Secondly, any effect an entity has on the game during their spawn function will happen even if they are marked with coop flags. For example, putting NOT_IN_COOP on a info_command_spawn won't prevent the command being sent in coop, as the entity sets the commands during it's spawn function then removes itself. It's fairly rare for an entity to have that kind of effect though. One of the cases that's caught and dealt with is an entity trying to spawn a static sound when it has coopflags, again the wall-torches are a good example.
The precaches thing might sound a bit wasteful, but it only causes a problem if you have some precaches that only ever appear in coop and some different ones that only appear in non-coop. Otherwise it's the one with the additional precaches that runs into the engine limits anyway. Also note that all map bmodels are precached regardless of whether they get used or not, so more thorough coopflags would not help there.
#7251 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/03/28 13:08:56
Im horribly confused on the mangle field myself. Some Quake references say it's a pitch,yaw,roll angle field and others say that it's indicating a location in the world to look at.
Which is it?
Type
#7252 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/28 13:18:42
viewpos in the console and it'll give you a loadout or where you are and which direction you're looking in (its the second one). Use this with noclip to get good intermissions.
intermissions do have a weird angle setup, different from all the others, but there you go.
Mangle
#7253 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/28 13:22:28
It's definitely a pitch,yaw,roll angle field and not a specific world position to look at.
It's still confusing though - I'm pretty sure some entities handle it differently to others (as in sometimes it's yaw,pitch,roll instead, or whatever). I could be wrong here, but I definitely never fully made sense of it.. I always seem to have to trial and error it when I set up an info_intermission or something.
Er, Well For Lights
#7254 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/28 13:22:48
a light pointing north, tilted down 45 degrees towards the ground would be 90 -45 0, the third number required for no reason whatsoever (!?)
One pointed east, perpendicular beam to the ground would be 0 0 0
One pointed straight up or down would be 0 90 0 or 0 -90 0
This sort of explanation would hopefully help with lights (get you pointed in the right direction), but I've tried a mangle key with info_triggered_lightning (or whatever the quoth entity was) and had no success, and the first number of the three for an info_intermission seens to be the polar opposite of what it would be if it were a light....
:-/
Polar Opposite = Negative
#7255 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/03/28 13:57:37
Polar opposite is the wrong term.
I mean a value of 45 0 0 would be a light with its beam perpendicular to the ground pointing north east. If it was an intermission with the same value it would be pointing south east.
Exactly.
#7256 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/28 14:41:49
That's why I can never get it straight... it's different on lights and info_intermission entities. I guess this is why - here's the specs for the intermission entity:
/*QUAKED info_intermission (1 0.5 0.5) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16)
The camera point for the intermission. Use mangle instead of angle, so you can set pitch or roll as well as yaw. 'pitch roll yaw' Quake does a random pick if more than one exists. If no info_intermission entity is set, Quake uses the player start.
Here's the spotlight comments for Tyrlite:
Spotlights can be optionally aimed by specifying yaw and pitch values, instead of targeting an info_null entity. Add a new key in the form "mangle" "# # 0". The first # is the yaw angle, 0 to 360 degrees around the Z-axis. The second # is the pitch angle, 90 to
-90 degrees up to down. The 0 is just a required placeholder.
Transparent Water
#7257 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/28 19:49:10
What do I need to have my water transparent?
X-ray Specs...
#7258 posted by generic [98.192.129.54] on 2008/03/28 20:17:13
or is that not helpful? :p
Check AguirRe's Docs,
#7259 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/28 21:52:10
Assuming you're using his compilers.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
I think its something like -transparent in txqbsp.
#7260 posted by Trinca [89.180.161.134] on 2008/03/29 00:44:06
Mike Woodham r_wateralpha "" change values and set the one you want
Info_null
#7261 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/29 09:51:35
can't you target an info_null from the info_intermission? I thought info_null was specifically for that purpose (along with spotlights).
Having said that, I've never done it, I've always used mangle.
Than
#7262 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.228.50] on 2008/03/29 10:10:28
Dunno, but it sounds like a good method if you can do that.
Also, the viewpos method mentioned previously sounds like a real winner.
#7263 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/03/29 10:22:11
Yeah, I just tried out viewpos in the game and damn if that isn't handy! Winner.
Radiant
#7264 posted by rudl [78.104.4.65] on 2008/03/29 17:07:13
Me seems to be too stupid to set up radiant, can someone help me please
Transparent Water
#7265 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/29 17:52:02
So, does that mean that I have to compile with -transwater AND use r_wateralpha in FQ?
In my sequal/prequal to FMB-BDG I have an area that gets flooded when the player enters it (a race-against-time affair). The traditional way to effect this seems to be to move the 'room' through a static water brush. However, due to the fact that I cannot (do not want to) turn this amount of the map into a moving object I am using a moving water brush but have a problem whereby when you are underwater looking up you cannot see the surface.
This does not look right in-game. Has anyone got a solution to this?
Uh
#7266 posted by negke [82.82.166.139] on 2008/03/29 18:27:05
Use opaque water then, or prevent the player from being underwater when the flooding takes place.
Neg!ke
#7267 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/29 19:16:19
The whole point is that the player will be underwater during the game-play and will drown if they do not do the necessary.
I am not looking for alternatives, I am looking for solutions.
Alpha On Brushes
#7268 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/29 19:21:11
The water transparency controlled by r_wateralpha does not apply to brush models, only to world brushes. You need some kind of .alpha support to make the moving brush transparent.
Incidentally, this means you can make teleporters with opaque textures in maps with transparent water by making the teleporter brushes func_wall or similar.
#7269 posted by negke [82.83.19.144] on 2008/03/29 19:37:02
Well, there is no easy solution (that I can think of). Are you using your own progs.dat - didn't hipprogs have some rising water code?
Extras Pack
#7270 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.100] on 2008/03/29 21:00:06
has that and some other water control functions.
HeadThump
#7271 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/30 01:03:19
Yes, most of the code comes from Extras. But with Preach talking about .alpha support, I am lost.
To Clarify
#7272 posted by Preach [127.255.255.255] on 2008/03/30 01:56:51
Ok, I want to be absolutely sure what the problem is here, because I may have got confused. Either:
1) When you look up while in the water you can see a water texture, but it is opaque rather than semi-transparent like normal water.
or
2) When you look up while in the water there is no water texture rendered at all, you can see straight out into the level.
The only solution to 1) is to add
.float alpha;
as a field in your progs, then set
self.alpha = 0.7;
on the func_water entity. This can be set through the map editor as a field on the entity instead. Of course, it will only work in engines that support .alpha, so not fq yet.
The best solution to 2) I can see is to comprise the model for your water of a very thin brush of water just on the surface, and then another larger brush just below that. Leave a gap so that the lower surface isn't clipped away. Turned on it's side it would look like:
| [........]
That way the lower face of the thin brush is visible while you are below the water.
Water Insides...
#7273 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/03/30 10:57:29
the pox_extras mod had example maps with water surfaces visible from inside the water model... i think it was made using extra-thin brushes or something, maybe check the map sources or docs.
Thanks...
#7274 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/30 12:03:21
I'll play some more today and let you know if I get anywhere.
1st Test
#7275 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/30 12:38:27
A 1 unit func-water brush placed either inside the other brush or abutted against it does give a surface effect.
Now I will have to see if moving the brush still works with the same effect.
I will revert...
Solution?
#7276 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/30 16:39:49
I now have it working.
As Preach suggested, a 1 unit func_water brush abutted but not inside the main func_water brush, works: they both rise at the same time (triggered). From inside the brush i.e. underwater, when you look up you now see the surface. When viewed from above the surface i.e. you have solved the puzzle and escaped, there is no z-fighting. And when moving through the water and breaking the surface, everything looks fine.
By the way, no clipping takes place - is this because they are entities and not ordinary brushes?
Don't know what all the fuss was about ;-)
Uhm...
#7277 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/03/31 03:16:32
I tried the moving water trick with the pox mod and found it quiet hard to make it arise for large brushes along distances. Also the surface isn't animating, although there is an animated texture for it.
I tried the old fashioned way also by making the room a func_train into a cube of water.
It seems you found a good solution for it.
Can you provide a map with an example?
I am really curious to it, as I feel the fuss somewhere I am loosing you're explanation.
MadFox
#7278 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/31 20:47:11
OK to use the registered e-mail for you?
I can send a sample map today.
Sure!
#7279 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/03/31 21:53:41
I´d be glad to explore.
MadFox
#7280 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/31 22:17:46
Hang on! Don't get carried away. The map I am sending you is not the FMB map the moving water has been designed for.
It is a single room showing the water brush rising and the use of the 1 unit brush to create a visible surface.
So not much to explore :-)
MadFox
#7281 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/03/31 22:30:34
You have mail.
Thanks Mike
#7282 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/01 10:05:55
I have received it, I will investigate it.
Qc?
#7283 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/02 04:10:11
Does this map is used in support of the extra progs,or the FMB progs?
I get a func_water missing.
MadFox
#7284 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2008/04/02 16:25:36
Sorry, I kind of assumed from your earlier post that you had the progs.dat for this.
It should work with the Extras progs.dat if you have it. If not, you are welcome to my FMB one (the latest one also fixes the music/savegame problem, if you are into music in your levels that is)
Alright
#7285 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/02 23:00:18
I'll try them.
Mapping Necessities And The Design Process
#7286 posted by liquidlogic [64.252.175.74] on 2008/04/06 18:30:25
What programs are necessary for creating a Quake map?
How do you go about designing a map?
#7287 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/06 19:10:41
What platform are you on? Have you ever used a level editor before?
Willem:
#7288 posted by liquidlogic [64.252.175.74] on 2008/04/06 19:21:12
I'm using Windows XP Pro. I've used UnrealEd once or twice.
Er I Would Use Worldcraft 3.3 And The Quakeadapter Package
#7289 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.36] on 2008/04/06 19:50:33
Its very easy to use, its basically Hammer. You start off with loads of good textures to use. The Quake .wad files are all converted to Half-Life .hlwad flies for compatibility with the programme.
To make a Quake map you first create a .map file using an editor of your choice. The idea is to use 3D shapes (cubes, cylinders, prisms) to make an area which is sealed off from the 'outside'. If the inside area of your map leaks into the outside area the map will not compile properly. Which brings us to the second part - you have to compile the .map file into a .bsp file by running a QBSP programme on it, the it has to be 'visually optimised' by another programme called VIS, then the lighting has to be rendered with another programme called LIGHT.
All of these tools are supplied with the Worldcraft 3.3/Quakeadapter package, and autmatically set up ready to use. There's a good tutorial to get you started in the help section of Worldcraft.
here's a link:
http://www.quakeone.com/forums/sho...
that should get you started, welcome to Quake 1 mapping! I started doing it less than a year ago, and I just released my 9th map, so I'm sure if you try you'll be successfull!
I would experiment a bit with the above mentioned programmes, I'm sure you'll figure it out, but if you need help you can always ask here, lots of people will help.
As for designing a map, different people use different methods, some draw ideas out on paper first, some people build maps from the ground up.... ;-P
#7290 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/06 19:53:49
I personally preferred QERadiant to Worldcraft but that's a somewhat religious argument. If you were on a Mac, I was going to give you the ToeTag pitch but ... oh well. Heh.
Yep
#7291 posted by Mr Fribbles [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/07 04:31:50
Another vote for Radiant here (GtkRadiant 1.2 or 1.4). Unfortunately it isn't terribly easy to set up for Q1 editing.
Damn it, if I wasn't such an asshole I'd have a package and tutorial ready for new guys to use. (I've been meaning to do this for a while now, but I've been too "busy" (aka lazy))
Ive Never Used Radiant
#7292 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.36] on 2008/04/07 04:39:34
whats the difference?
#7293 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/07 09:50:03
It's better in every way.
Honestly, the only thing I preferred about Worldcraft compared with Radiant was that Worldcraft would let you create illegal brushes (that you were attempting to form into a perfectly legal brush) without killing the brush.
Heh Heh
#7294 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/07 10:55:58
I'll have to give it a try
Scampie
#7295 posted by Mr Fribbles [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/07 12:29:37
I think Radiant will let you do that too, if you turn off "vertex editing splits face". Not entirely sure though.
Just don't use GtkRadiant 1.5 onwards. Don't be lured in by the "native Q1 support" shit. They've changed the basic brush editing/manipulation controls (and not for the better). Sigh, must not begin rant. It'd be quicker for me to dig up the old whinges rather than typing it again...
Code Question For The Masses
#7296 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/07 15:27:22
OK, does anyone know what the magic formula is in C for converting from UV coordinates back into Quake texture vectors?
I know how to go from vectors to UVs (that code is inside of QBSP), but how do you go the other way? If we could figure that out, some real texturing muscle could be added to ToeTag and other level editors.
#7297 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/07 15:28:40
Oh and Fribbles, I would love to read some of those old rants if you were being serious there. Are they somewhere that could be linked?
And
#7298 posted by bambuz [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/07 16:00:59
Worldcraft has visgroups.
Ogier has something even better - hierarchies.
But I'm still trying to learn to use it really.
It's a bit unconfigurable (view window order!) and badly documented (since it's mainly a company internal tool) but seems pretty snappy. There are a huge number of direct keyboard shortcuts for everything.
If the Starbreeze guys could get the company to publish a newer version online... ;)
OK, This Will Sound 'tarded
#7299 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/07 16:21:47
but in Worldcraft you have four projections: xy, zy and xz and 3D or whatever. When I have looked at shots of other editors I am always put off straight away by the fact that most seem to have 2 projections on the screen at any one time - 3D and one other. Like Radiant or Doom-ed or whatever. Surely this means you have to press a button each time you want to see the map from a different angle. Which is surely gonna slow you down somewhat.
Also does Radiant have a fully functional texture lock tool which you can do ANYTHING with? Yes or no? Is it as good as WC3.3 / Hammer's?
I am honestly curious.
I mean you must have to spend a bit of time with an editor before you could say you know it well enough to pass judgement...
Info_intermission + Mangle
#7300 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/07 16:23:32
Different engines point in different directions with the mangle key on info_intermissions BTW, namely JoeQuake/FitzQuake...
(just seeing as we were discussing this the other week....)
Ricky
#7301 posted by bambuz [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/07 16:29:01
most modern editors have the WC four view style. Radiant has it.
Oh, OK - I'll Prob Give It A Try At Some Point..
#7302 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/07 16:32:07
...it was the purpose built ID editor for Quake2 right? Which version is best for Quake1 mapping, wheres the best place to look?
;-P
#7303 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/07 16:42:34
I'm not a fan of the 4 view layout (as evidenced by ToeTags layout). You only ever need 1 2D view at a time and 90% of the time you'll be using top-down anyway. There, I said it.
Yeah I Know Its Silly
#7304 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/07 17:12:33
I often get annoyed because the four views are too small, but for creating brushes it useful to see a top and a side view at the same time. I guess in other view modes you have a "toggle view" button or something.
Im sure I could get used to other ways, I cant pass judgement till ive tried them!
Yah,
#7305 posted by HeadThump [4.136.111.237] on 2008/04/07 17:21:26
traditional four view in GTKRadiant 1.2.11 with the texture theme set to black and green is the way I do it.
I just set the game to Quake 3 Arena, and try to lock my texture handling to Quake acceptable degree handling (I know, the last map was rough, but I was under the lash of time).
I hate 1.5; is the ability to load texture sets really a deprecated feature? I've looked through the literature that came with 1.5 and I've spent many hours working with it and have found nothing to contradict that impression.
Ricky
#7306 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/07 18:25:47
4 views wastes 2 views worth of space. 1 big 'grid view' is all you need to work in, with assistance from the z-checker view and the 3d view. And when you do need a side view , ctrl-tab quickly switches between them once you get used to it.
That
#7307 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.28] on 2008/04/07 19:14:52
4 views wastes 2 views worth of space. 1 big 'grid view' is all you need to work in, with assistance from the z-checker view and the 3d view. And when you do need a side view , ctrl-tab quickly switches between them once you get used to it.
is pretty much the layout I use in Blender and Wings3d, and it works great. I'm more reluctant to do so in Radiant because the view point is not so easy to manipulate the entire scene as it is in a proper 3d ap.
Yeah
#7308 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/07 21:01:46
whenever I use Max or Maya, it's always just a single 3d window, sometimes switched to side views for measurement.
Advantages Of Worldcraft
#7309 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/08 02:15:18
there are a few disadvantages of course, but here is a shortlist of the reasons I still use Worldcraft over other editors:
*the ability to modify the properties of many entities at once. This also works with faces in texturing mode and you needn't change all the properties to be the same. You can just alter, angle, name, brightness, scale or whatever you like and it will only change those things.
*visgroups. Far more useful than some seem to think. Shits all over regions in radiant but requires a little overhead to set them up. Especially useful if you still use 1.6a :)
*fairly decent texture browser and multiwad support. Find/replace also works nicely and the search is great.
*native Quake support (up to 1.6a, you need simple conversion tools for the valve versions I think, but maybe bengt's latest compilers handle the maps natively - not sure).
*vertex edit mulitple brushes at once and select any number of vertices or edges to manipulate at once.
*rmf files store camera settings (you can create lots of cameras around your level and switch between them whilst editing instead of having to fly around) visgroups and brush groups (like func_groups, but you can group anything, including entities and it's stored in a hierachy).
The valve versions of wc from 3.3 onwards benefit from accelerated 3d, improved mouse controls and near perfect texture locking that works with rotations as well as moves. Not sure if it works on flipped brushes. The texture editing window also has a few new features like fit to face etc.
The only features I miss in WC that radiant has are the 3 point clipper (WC has only a 2 point clipper) and the filters. You can show/hide visgroups in worldcraft, but it's really nice having the ability to hide clips, triggers, lights etc. at the click of a button without needing to set up groups. Oh, and the single window view in radiant is quite nice - I can't look at four views at the same time :)
#7310 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/08 11:35:24
ToeTag does most of that stuff as well. It does, I tell you!
Did You Ever Get The Texture Lock
#7311 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/08 11:51:29
working?
That is the best feature of Worldcraft. In 1.6a it was buggy, but in the 3.3 version it never fails! I almost feel as though I am cheating by using it.
One thing though, supposedly if you set a faces angle to -1 the texture will be a mirror of the original. I could never get this working in WC, but instead would create a brush then spin it round 180 degrees, and the face on the other side would be a mirror.
I cant get my head round the idea of a three-point clipper. How the hell does that work?!?!
#7312 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/08 11:58:28
No, my texture locking is somewhat lame. It works well enough but it's not fantastic or anything.
A 3 point clipper is, IMO, something that you rarely need. Imagine a triangle in the 3D viewport that will do what your 2D clipper is doing.
Ricky
#7313 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 12:28:49
One thing though, supposedly if you set a faces angle to -1 the texture will be a mirror of the original. I could never get this working in WC, but instead would create a brush then spin it round 180 degrees, and the face on the other side would be a mirror.
To mirror a texture on a face, give it a negative scale. Most of the time this will just mean -1 scale, you can flip it vertically or horizontally, or both...
If you're using a scale other than 1, same deal, just make it negative (e.g. -0.5, -2, whatever).
Willem
#7314 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 12:32:19
I'd love to try it (ToeTag) to be honest. When is the windows port coming? ;)
Thanks Fribbles
#7315 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/08 12:40:18
ToeTag
#7316 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 12:57:06
Ok, so I haven't used the editor, but I still have some feedback, Willem.
I started looking at the docs and I noticed that the camera controls for the 3D view in ToeTag are limited to mouse wheel and mouse drag shenanigans. This is functional of course, but I have to say it's a hell of a lot nicer to just fly around the map like you can in Radiant (and even Hammmer now!)
If you're not aware, this is implemented just like spectator mode in most of the FPS games that you can map for in these editors. That is, keys to move forward/back and strafe, while the mouse just looks around freely. This is simple and intuitive, and just plain makes sense.
Radiant: arrow keys = move, mouse = look around, RMB in 3D viewport to toggle free fly mode on/off.
Hammer: WASD = move, mouse = look around, Z button toggles free fly mode.
#7317 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/08 12:58:08
"When is the windows port coming? ;)"
Flying pork and all that. :)
#7318 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/08 12:59:52
Fribbles
A spectator cam might be a useful thing to add.
ToeTag's camera controls might sound weird but they mirror every other 3D application available on the Mac so they aren't really all that strange to Mac people.
Well...
#7319 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 13:18:37
ToeTag's controls don't sound that weird at all (well, I don't know where the option button and all that are, but I assume you've chosen sensible keys! :)
They do sound like common controls for 3D apps or world-building tools... that's the problem really. Of course, if you're happy with it, that's the main thing.
I tell you what though, I get really fucked off with Maya at work because of its shitty camera controls. So often I've wished for (proper, sensible, obvious) camera controls like GtkRadiant's in Maya...
Using the mouse and keys to look around is kind of OK if you're working on one object or a limited area, but it's so much better using freefly/spec camera when you want to get around fast or just get a better sense of the space you're creating by looking at it from many angles.
P.s.
#7320 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 13:22:28
Of course, this is all irrelevant since I'm not using the editor and I have no means of doing so. Although buying a whole new system just to edit Quake maps doesn't sound nearly as ridiculous as it should... hmmm... :)
In all seriousness though, consider the spec/freefly mode. Try it in Hammer and GtkRadiant if you are able to. It's just so natural and obvious that once you've used it, you wish every 3D app worked that way.
Both Radiant and Hammer still allow you to select brushes and faces while in that free fly mode as well, so it can be used while editing some things and not just for navigating. For instance, the free fly mode combined with the texturing shortcuts in Radiant make it easy to fly around a room and texture heaps of different surfaces quickly.
Quoth Vermis
#7321 posted by negke [82.82.162.142] on 2008/04/08 13:49:51
Is it possible to have it spawn in at a certain point, so it doesn't block the player before it's supposed to appear?
Delayspawn?
#7322 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/08 13:57:22
or, er, spawn delay?
(I've never used a Vermis, but doesnt Quoth allow you spawn enemies in?)
Or failing that can you teleport the Vermis in the old fashioned way?
(I'd imagine this isnt helpfull as you would surely know what you are doing, and ive missed something...?)
#7323 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/08 15:51:18
Fribbles
I've become spoiled by UnrealEd which has, hands down, the greatest level design camera system ever built. It's so incredibly productive to use.
I try to replicate it whenever I write an editor and ToeTag is designed sort of along those lines but making Mac concessions along the way.
UnrealED
#7324 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.75.122] on 2008/04/08 16:13:08
I've never spent enough time with UnrealED to actually get a feel for it. I tried an early release version, but I had trouble getting it to run at all at the time (it was a very low-end machine, it couldn't handle it).
I've become spoiled by UnrealEd which has, hands down, the greatest level design camera system ever built. It's so incredibly productive to use.
That's a pretty big call though... I really should give it a go. I've always wanted to do some UT maps. Does the editor ship with both UT3 and Gears of War?
#7325 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/08 16:35:36
Yep, it's included in both.
Re: Vermis Spawn
#7326 posted by negke [82.82.179.44] on 2008/04/08 18:42:07
Won't work because it's static.
My plan was to have an upside-down Vermis battle the player from above. The bbox stays on the ground though, plus the grab attack loses its effect as the tentacle is too high up. In the end, the battle I planned would have been annoying anyway, the area is way too tight.
Neg!ke...
#7327 posted by generic [67.233.218.241] on 2008/04/09 19:07:13
Make all the other monsters attack you from upside-down and the Vermis battle will be easy to implement.
Willem
#7328 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/09 19:44:23
Did you put the UE3 camera in ToeTag? If so, WINDOWS CONVERSION NOW!
Oh, rewrite Quake's map format and compilers so we can have subtractive geometry too. I can barely stand working on my Quake map now... "what do you mean I have to create 4+ brushes just to make an indent in a wall!?"
#7329 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/09 19:50:53
Scampie
No, sorry. Just saying I like that camera system. ToeTag is using the standard Mac 3D camera set up.
Doesn't Quark do subtractive brushes? Or maybe it's BSP. One of them does...
You Can Carve In WC
#7330 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/09 20:47:35
but it almost always turns the brushes to shit - like most boolean operations.
#7331 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/09 20:56:07
He's talking about a system like Unreal has. You place a brush that acts as a negative space in the map. When the BSP compiles, it cuts that brush into the world rather than adding it to the world. It's hella awesome and makes BSP work much easier/quicker than in Quake.
Moving a window, for example, means moving your subtractive brush over a little. You don't have to resize all of the surrounding brushes to surround the new hole you want instead.
I Suppose Its A Bit Like Making A BSP File Directly
#7332 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.20] on 2008/04/09 21:00:49
Rather than making it out of shapes which have sides that the engine doesnt even need, and we waste loads of time with compilers trying to remove them! And I suppose it eliminates leaks too?
Hm
#7333 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/09 22:01:59
That does sound pretty good.
Straight away I'm thinking of making a map only out of subtractive brushes, just to be awkward. Could be useful with a subtractive mask system, but probably too much for poor ol bsp.
Wasn't there some game that did work like this?
Actually
#7334 posted by bambuz [91.152.87.250] on 2008/04/09 22:29:01
how hard would it be to make an editor like that? Ie. leafs and nodes.
Then you could possibly even directly edit BSP:s.
Or you could couple it to the engine.
Then you end up with cube style stuff..
#7335 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/09 22:38:38
In my experience, you don't want that. Treating a level editing tool like a modeling tool (which is what this amounts to) has never been shown to be a productivity boost.
It's better for level designers to work with some sort of abstraction (i.e. brushes) and have a compiler that does the right thing later.
Octree / Cube
#7336 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/09 23:05:10
That's what I was thinking of.
#7337 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/04/10 00:20:10
thinking of making a map only out of subtractive brushes
One of my first (unreleased) maps in 1997 was done like this. I thought i was a genius (no leaks!) until, around adding room 5, the qbsp times were already climbing past 5 minutes.
What Kind Of Machine Was That Metl?
#7338 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.20] on 2008/04/10 02:44:06
heh - a P133 w. 16MbRAM and Windows 95?
Close...
#7339 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/04/10 07:50:19
pentium 166, 32mb ram, win95.
Subtractive
#7340 posted by Spirit [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/10 09:41:14
yes, quark has those. Called "diggers" or something. I'd use them carefully though.
Digger
#7341 posted by JPL [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/10 09:44:09
... or hole creation is explained here:
http://quark.planetquake.gamespy.c...
Wow
#7342 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/10 16:34:57
quark has some cool features! Not sure I want to switch now though... not after 10 years of Worldcraft.
Holy shit. 10 years. Argh.
1.6
#7343 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/10 17:09:37
1.6a
#7344 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/10 17:29:23
I've tried QuArK, but I could never get into learning how to use it and always went back to wc. The massive amount of features makes it a shameful retreat.
Maybe its the interface - I don't like most modern interfaces with their helpful "features" and round icons for square buttons (fuck XP start menu) but the way QuArK is laid out doesn't gel with how I think about mapping in Q1. Odd. Or lazy.
#7345 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/10 17:37:25
No, that's fair. I always felt that I should be using Quark as well but I could never get into it. It never clicked for me.
#7346 posted by rudl [78.104.20.178] on 2008/04/10 19:27:28
Diggers are very good when you're unsure how to build an area.
Tag and glue features are also very nice.
For those who think quark is complex download an older version. And you don't need the interface. Quark has a lot of shortcut keys too.
But it it doesn't suite for quake too good. And is a bit buggy.
Bsp is about the oposite of quark: it's cleaner,(look at the map source,less compiling errors, Hom effects)
but has less features.
Ogier is the most 3D editor I have seen so far.
And radiant seems to be similar to Ogier but not as efficient.
haven't tied Worldcraft yet. Doesn't run on my sys.
#7347 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/10 19:53:52
Oh god, that digger is ugly. In their example, 12 tris are created more than a properly built and mitered wall of that example. And since it's done post compile, you can't even fix it.
MITER 4-LYFE
#7348 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/10 20:20:19
The point of them is the trade off though. Easier level building/tweaking in exchange for messier brushes. And, really, if the level runs correctly does the brush configuration really matter?
#7349 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/10 20:38:50
When you do coding, do you favour methods that work, or methods that work quickly?
#7350 posted by rudl [78.104.20.178] on 2008/04/10 20:48:16
diggers=Compile it and see how it looks ingame.
When you want to have a door somewhere else: just move the negative, otherwise you have to modify more than one brush and doing this severeal times would be a lot of work.
When you are sure build everything around the negative brush.
#7351 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/10 21:08:44
"When you want to have a door somewhere else: just move the negative, otherwise you have to modify more than one brush and doing this severeal times would be a lot of work.
When you are sure build everything around the negative brush."
That sounds sensible. If you're concerned about how the brushes are laid out, go with this strategy. Fast iteration times = win.
Negative Brushes Etc...
#7352 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/04/10 23:17:19
I have to say, considering some of the extra UI involved in some of the features described above (especially the process of linking texture alignment across multiple faces), I'm not sure if it's worth it. Moving doors and stuff in radiant has never been a huge issue for me, and creating/modifying alcoves is also pretty fast. Retexturing multiple faces with the same alignment is very fast too (edit face one, grab the texture alignment with a click, then apply it to other faces with one click each.)
Radiant is far from being perfect or ideal, but I think one of the nice things about it is that it makes a small collection of core interactions very efficient, and you can usually do complex things using those.
#7353 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/11 13:35:36
While it's not for everyone, I think you'd really have to get into Unreal mapping to fully grasp how great the subtractive brushes can be. Nowadays we mostly use meshes in Unreal so it's not all that applicable anymore but subtractive brushes were so incredibly useful back in the heady BSP based days,
Of course, UnrealEd would let you see the resulting BSP right there in the editor viewport and you moved the wireframe brushes around to change things so it's not quite analogous to Quake mappping.
Subtractive Brushes + Meshes
#7354 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/11 19:04:03
=
Awesome
#7355 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/11 19:26:20
It's changed somewhat though. I'm not sure how recent your experience is but UnrealEngine3 switched from a subtractive world to an additive one.
So you add brushes like you do in Quake now. Subtractives still work and are heavily employed but you don't start with carving out a space anymore. You start in empty space.
Willem
#7356 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/11 23:17:04
I've been working with UED3 for the last 2 years of my life.
Subtractive geometry is awesome, since you can build a quick area out of 'Quake style' additive brushes for your layout and gameplay blockouts, then later, when you get art assets and want to trim out a level, you can carve out of your flat blocked out level to place wall meshes, or to add larger scale details to the BSP.
#7357 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/12 01:32:33
Oh cool! We're doing things a little differently for Gears 2 in that we're blocking out levels with BSP. Then, once we determine that the layout is fun and gameplay is solid, we convert those BSP brushes into blocking volumes (for those who don't know Unreal - basically, clip brushes), and then add meshes inside of those to flesh the level out.
Works well!
So THATS What You Doing!
#7358 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.20] on 2008/04/12 04:36:24
Cool!
Loved Gears one! (I could tell you were a pro)
You remind me of another pro (but not quite as nasty!!!)
(dont know where to look now!) :-o
Da Fuck?
#7359 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/04/13 09:15:25
Why did no one tell me you were Warren Marshall?
#7360 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/13 12:47:26
Because it doesn't matter? :) I'm just a guy who likes making Quake maps.
Just Logical
#7361 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.197.75] on 2008/04/13 14:26:54
that the creme de la creme of the industry comes back focussing on the best game ever... IÂ´m John Carmack btw hehehe
#7362 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/04/13 15:20:31
I KNEW IT!
#7363 posted by quakis [90.241.217.152] on 2008/04/14 09:36:15
Just wondering if anyone has any idea on this small issue.
http://www.quakeone.com/qadapter/ - I followed this guide to get WC3.3 to work for Quake mapping, but I noticed a small issue. When I want to apply textures, I can't seem to select a seperate face of the brush - but this should work? I'm just wondering if anyone has a clue on this?
I've tried using QuArK, but I find the process of applying textures quite slow. Guess I'm too spoilt and used to Hammer editor. Haven't really tried out WC1.6a fully yet though.
Shortcut
#7364 posted by than [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/14 16:37:38
shift+a. Press that to get into texture application mode and that should let you select separate faces. There is also a button (a cube with multicoloured sides) that does the same thing.
No idea what the problem could be otherwise. Perhaps it's a 3d card driver problem? I can't select anything in the 3d view in WC 1.6a if I enable 3d acceleration, but v3.3 and up are very different to 1.6a and support proper opengl rendering.
Yeah
#7365 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.233.151] on 2008/04/14 16:45:22
I was gonna type here, but I get sick of sounding like a blabber-mouth!! :-)
Are you selecting "Texture Application Mode" by clicking on the icon or shift+a as Than describes? Then you click on the face in the 3D view, you can ctrl+select to select multiple faces.
About once every blue moon WC3.3 throws some bug at me. The other day I was unable to get out of this mode where I couldnt select any brushes and I was only able to drag the 2D views around with the mouse (navigation style). Restarting the program wouldn't fix this (god knows, I probably pressed some button or something) but restarting Windows did!
Sometimes I get an error message something like "OpenGL shutdown failed" or something when I exit WC3.3.
Generally it's great though! I hope you get it working Quakis, cause the texture application features of WC3.3 are second to none! ('fit' - yes please!!)
OK so I am a blabber-mouth :-|
#7366 posted by quakis [90.241.217.152] on 2008/04/14 17:30:29
Pretty much I can't select anything in the 3D view, that includes the brush itself - only from the 2D views it allows me to. Therefore, even in texture application mode it doesn't select a single face I tell it to.
Probably
#7367 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/14 17:42:52
You have to turn off 3d acceleration. Or another option that's in that same window. T remember this being an old WC bug with certain video cards, but I thought it was limited to 1.6a and fixed in Hammer.
Give it a try though.
#7368 posted by quakis [90.241.217.152] on 2008/04/14 18:52:39
I checked through all the options in WC3.3 and found nothing related to 3D/Hardware accelertaion for me to uncheck.
I also installed a copy of WC1.6a test if it does the same. I set it up and made sure hardware accelertaion was unchecked and everything works fine in the 3D view for this version.
Sorry if I sound like I'm pestering, I just don't like giving up too soon on things.
#7369 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/14 18:59:53
I've stuck with 1.6a - the features of later version of hammer not being a sufficient draw as oposed to the various problems caused - having to convert textures, no texture packs above a certain size etc.
I just assumed 3.3 would have the same tools/options/3dviews - thought it did from my time messing around with HL1.
Dont Worry - Pestering Is G00d!!
#7370 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.20] on 2008/04/14 19:00:12
Try tools => options => 3D Views => Filter Textures (in 3.3)
I think that probably has to do with the hardware accelleration . . . ?
What graphics card are you using? You could try altering the settings in either the NVidia Controll Center or the Catalyst Contoll Center if you have NVidia/ATI hardware, there could be a global setting which is interfering with WC3.3
Make sure all of the global settings are default or "let the application decide" or whatever....
?
(let us know how you do...)
#7371 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/14 19:26:37
We've had problems here and there in the past with anti-aliasing messing up selecting things in UnrealEd. If you've forced that on in your video card settings, that might be it.
#7372 posted by quakis [90.241.217.152] on 2008/04/14 21:01:58
Unfortunetly, it doesn't seem there's anything on my video card settings that seems to cause it. I also check anti-aliasing but I don't even have it forced.
@ijed: 3.3 camera movement feels a lot more nicer than in 1.6a, and I can go about texturing things much quicker and have a better workflow than the camera movement in 1.6a, amongst a few other things which help.
Like I Say
#7373 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/14 22:08:38
I didn't find the software overall improved enough to go through the rigmarole of changing over. And I'm lazy.
Quakis
#7374 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.240] on 2008/04/14 22:12:30
Your last post - half of it sounded like you still were stuck, the other half sounded like you have fixed the problem (?)
Ijed: I would try it, you might like it (+ it is easier than installing WARPSPASM, even the wadconveter thingy, you wouldnt notice it!!)
;-D
PS - I respect everybody has their own way....
WC 3.3
#7375 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/04/14 22:31:22
I gave it a try the other day, but I'm not very pleased. Firstly, I don't like the fact that you HAVE to install it in Program Files/Worldcraft, otherwise it will not work.
I'm not all crazy about having to convert the textures in hlwad format every time either. I guess that's not a big deal, but still.
And lastly, I couldn't find the menu option to increase texture brightness. It's not where it should be, as it is in 1.6a.
3.3 does have a very fast 3D window though, and that can be important especially in big maps.
But in the end, I still stick with 1.6. Thats not to say I don't like 3.3, but I'm more comfortable with 1.6
You Were Never One For Meticulous Texture Alignment Though...
#7376 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.240] on 2008/04/14 22:50:38
Seriously, the texture alignment features of WC 3.3 are what sold it for me. And the ability to copy and paste multiple brushes and then rotate them WITHOUT LOOSING THE TEXTURE ALIGNMENT INFO :D :D :D
I too also had problems with the 3D window being too dark, but I ran the NVidia display optimazation wizard (with the Monitor brightness/contrast settings on max, as it says to do) and the I realised that I was getting a better PC picture for it too :D
And why does everybody complain about the texture converter? OK so if you have a texture over 1024 then you need to mess around a bit, but I dont use huge textures. I guess some people like biiiig textures.....
Whatever? :D
It's Not
#7377 posted by ijed [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/14 23:31:56
1024 in pixel size, but the Qauntity of textures inside a single WAD. And there's alot of Wads that contain more than 1024 textures.
Well I Can Live Without 3.3's Texture Alignment
#7378 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/04/14 23:43:32
But I CAN'T live with abnormally dark textures, not being able to see whats what.
You Were Never One For Meticulous Texture Alignment Though...
Maybe not in the past. But in my latest maps, once they're released, you will see I have taken the extra time to make sure everything is aligned.
#7379 posted by quakis [90.241.217.152] on 2008/04/15 00:03:57
@Ricky - No, the issue still persues. But I'm using a mix of the two. 3.3 to construct, 1.6a to texture. It's a slower process due to 1.6a's awkward camera but better than nothing.
Hmmmm
#7380 posted by RickyT23 [127.255.255.255] on 2008/04/15 00:32:44
Did you try unchecking the "filter textures" tab in the 3D part of the options menu?
Apart from that Im foxed. (?)
Orl - Have you tried getting fixing up the brightness/contrast settings of your video card? Try it with the monitor brightness/contrast BOTH on 100%, then you'll have a colour correction module somewhere.....
I dunno, I respect that everybody has their own way, I'm only trying to help.
Ricky
#7381 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/04/15 01:39:10
I can adjust my monitor and video card brightness, both are at 50%. At 100%, I can see the textures fine, but everything else is way to bright. I shouldn't have to change the brightness every time I want to do some mapping.
I know WC 3.3 has the option to adjust the brightness for the 2D view gridlines, but none for the 3D view? Wheres the thought in that.
I'm only trying to help.
I know, and I am glad you are, believe me :)
But I'm content with 1.6 and its super slow 3D view and no auto alignment. It suits me well.
What About Colour Correction/display Optimisation Module?
#7382 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.240] on 2008/04/15 05:04:34
Humour me:
1 - Turn monitor contrast/brightness to 100%
2 - Go into your graphics card's software, and find the colour correction module. There's bound to be one if you have hardware from the last 5-6 years. On my system theres a wizard which gives you a red/green/blue line, and you have to match up the colour's tones. Also you have to do an exercise where you have a group of lines going through shades of black to white. The two darkest strips have to both appear black.
I would imagine you have a similar option somewhere on your computer.
Click on windows desktop with the RMB, then click on properties, then go to the settings tab, then click on "advanced". There's probably something there. On my computer it's the NVidia Controll Panel, on ATI computers its the Catalyst Controll Center.
I found after doing this my games also looked better. And it's easier to see the picture on my monitor in sunlight too.
If you either can't be bothered to try this, or already have, or dont have the option then I'm sorry. I give up! All I can say is it worked for me!
I Must Admit
#7383 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.240] on 2008/04/15 05:07:34
I too had the same problem as your'e describing, and experienced the "washed out" look. In XP all of the beige/grey type areas of the windows seemed very white, and dazzling. But when I figured out how to set the monitor up properly I found it to be better than ever before!
How
#7384 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/15 09:56:46
do I delete the weaponvieuw for screenshots?
Madfox:
#7385 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/04/15 10:04:57
r_drawviewmodel 0
#7386 posted by quakis [84.71.61.145] on 2008/04/15 21:09:01
I did a quick google search and found this thread;
http://www.chatbear.com/unity2/12/...
States exactly the same problem with the same card. Someone mentions a temp-fix that seems to work, by disabling the card, then re-enabling. Though is this practical? Since I don't really want anything to... mess up.
Thanks
#7387 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/15 21:17:04
metlslime.
Solution Works
#7388 posted by quakis [84.71.61.145] on 2008/04/15 21:53:29
Just tested the solution in the link I mentioned above and it works. The only issue is a drop in speed, but nothing unbearable. Hopefully this can be helpful to anyone else that comes across the same problem.
But
#7389 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/15 22:20:44
r_drawvieuwmodel 0
unknown command.
Becuase You Spelled It Wrong?
#7390 posted by czg [83.253.254.12] on 2008/04/15 22:30:52
#7391 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/04/15 23:09:32
try "r_drawvi" and hit TAB. :P
Because
#7392 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/04/15 23:34:11
I am so stpid!
Drawvieuwmodel
#7393 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.231.156] on 2008/04/18 22:48:39
mwahaha that sounds so dutch, nice one MadFox
45 Degree .... Texture Alignment... Can't Quite Remember...
#7394 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/05/04 13:03:52
On some brushes with a 45 degree face, textures ligning up in the editor are 90 degrees out in the game, and vice versa.
I remember two fixes: one was when compiling (-oldaxis ?) and one was in the editor (BspEditor). Anyone know the editor fix?
#7395 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/04 13:15:21
Not sure ... that's interesting though because I thought it was only ToeTag that did that. Good to know my editor isn't alone in screwing up sometimes. :P
BspEditor
#7396 posted by lurker [208.62.125.140] on 2008/05/04 18:19:23
File - Preferences - Preferences:
Alt. 45 Deg. Face Texturing checkbox.
Close your map and re-open it to refresh all affected textures (there may be a faster way to do this, but I haven't found it). If you only need to refresh one surface, select it, open the Surface Properties box (hotkey: S), and click one of the Apply buttons.
Lurker
#7397 posted by Mike Woodham [86.147.202.94] on 2008/05/04 22:34:52
Thanks for your help.
I'm using 96b (because support for BspBuild was dropped in 96c) so the sequence is:-
File - Preferences - Game/Directories
then in the Settings Window, from the drop down select Texture
then change the texture_alignment from False to True
then click on Write Bsp.cfg
Everything's fine right now...
Mashing The Meshing Button
#7398 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/11 03:10:11
I'm using fitzquake080(ok, fitzhack080) and testing some code, when I notice a great deal of slowdown. At first I thought I'd created some monstrosity in the progs code, but profile showed nothing out of the ordinary. I eventually remembered what the pentegram at the top right means - disk activity is slowing it down. When I turn on developer mode I discover that some models are getting meshed almost every time I look at them.
I tried deleting glquake folder in the mod directory, but this only worked temporarily. Is it possible that heapsize was too low for the map I was running(tris.bsp)? Would that or something else cause things to be meshed very often when lots of models were onscreen, but for it to die down again when some models got removed?
Half-Life Wad Editor?
#7399 posted by Baker [69.211.221.198] on 2008/05/11 10:30:17
What's the most popular or prevalent Half-Life wad editor?
Baker
#7400 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/05/11 10:38:04
Try either XwE (http://www.doomworld.com/xwe/) or Wally (http://www.telefragged.com/wally/...
Holy Shit....
#7401 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/05/11 10:38:53
XwE: http://www.doomworld.com/xwe/
Wally: http://www.telefragged.com/wally/i...
:P
Preach:
#7402 posted by metlslime [24.111.130.238] on 2008/05/11 11:33:11
I believe higher heapsize would fix that because it sounds like models being re-caches continuously.
Cool
#7403 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/11 13:09:59
Thanks - this seems to work. Just so long as it's not the change in code!
Transparant Skin?
#7404 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/05/11 18:05:17
Is it possible to add the grey colour that is used in sprites to a model?
This for adding transparancy to it, like the gaps in the skeleton of bones.
#7405 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/05/13 03:47:39
then I must have seen bublegum watching shrak.
wasn't there that crying babyball, who just slit open?
Looking at the texture it is done with that same colour.
But if I use it on a base tex for an entityit it stays brown.
Lit Doors
#7406 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.33] on 2008/05/15 12:21:29
What is the trick again to have the inner faces of a door (the ones that touch when the door is closed) lit?
Well I Would Put A Light Inside The Door Opposite
#7407 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.119] on 2008/05/15 12:24:28
because lights can be inside solid entities.
:D
Does Ythat Make Sense To You?
#7408 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.119] on 2008/05/15 12:26:18
#### ####
###> <###
#### #### <---- A door
#### ####
#x#> <#x#
#### #### <---- The two x's are lights inside the doors
Think About It
#7409 posted by megaman [92.72.2.214] on 2008/05/15 12:35:50
electrifying something on a moving thing is much harder and more prone to error.
Ok, Lol
#7410 posted by megaman [92.72.2.214] on 2008/05/15 12:36:58
note to self: read context.
Oh Nice, Thanks Ricky
#7411 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.33] on 2008/05/15 12:43:34
And now I am gonna electrify megaman's moving butt.
Yeah - I Dont Mean "attatch The Light To The Door"
#7412 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.119] on 2008/05/15 12:46:24
I dont think thats even possible, is it?
I just mean put the light inside the door in the .map file so that it casts light onto the "inner faces" of the door opposite. :-)
AFAIK you can put light entities inside any solid entity, because the inside of a solid entity is not in the void, and because solid entities dont cast shadows.
#7413 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/15 13:13:26
I didn't even think of that, nice tip Ricky. Makes perfect sense now that you mention it...
Again
#7414 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.75] on 2008/05/17 15:05:13
I am having trouble with a func_wall to kill. A monster has "killtarget" "killwall", the func_wall has "targetname" "killwall". Nothing happens when the monster dies, what is wrong?
Limitation
#7415 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/17 15:16:53
If monsters don't have the target field set, then they skip the part of the code that calls SUB_UseTargets - which is the function that handles killtargets. So give the monster a "target" key which doesn't correspond to any targetname in your map, and it should work fine.
Thanks Preach
#7416 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.75] on 2008/05/17 15:49:20
now that is down right evil.
Disappearing Toolwindows In Hammer
#7417 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2008/05/17 17:14:11
I roll with the toolbar objects undocked. Thusly: http://www.grayheaven.net/unfucked...
After a while the toolwindows flicker out, as if the renderorder is reversed or something. Behold: http://www.grayheaven.net/fucked.j...
If I mouseover them, the titlebars flicker back on top, and I can sometimes unfuck it back by resizing them or minimizing the hammer window and maximizing - and after a while they fuck off again. Mothercockgobbling bullshit. It started a few days ago, either when I tried the latest geforce driver or when valve released the latest source SDK update, I'm not sure which, but rolling back the drivers haven't helped.
It's bloodfucking annoying. Anyone know of a fix?
---
Also, Willem, wtf? Why've you dropped off the PC radar?
#7418 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/17 17:34:00
The PC radar?
#7419 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2008/05/17 17:43:11
the crap
#7420 posted by gone [78.37.20.84] on 2008/05/17 18:56:56
Any1 has idea why could UV mapping be lost on .ase in radiant?
pictures there http://www.splashdamage.com/forums...
#7421 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/17 20:57:14
wrath
Ahh right. I dunno, I just got tired of it I guess.
Multiple Uv Channels?
#7422 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/05/17 23:51:02
or uv channel that isn't set to 0? all i got, sorry.
Target, Killtarget...
#7423 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/05/18 00:35:55
wait, i thought each entity could only fire a target OR a killtarget, and not both?
So it's the opposite for monsters?
Simple Solution..
#7424 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2008/05/18 00:41:35
..target a trigger_relay which in turn fires the killtarget. job done!
Right The First Time
#7425 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/18 00:49:15
You're right that in the basic quake progs, only one out of killtarget and target will work for any given entity. Specifically if an entity has "killtarget" set, then whatever name is in the "target" field will not be triggered when the "killtarget" is fired.
But it is still necessary to have a "target" for the monster to start the whole process, because the check for "target" happens in some monster specific code, which doesn't consider the case of "killtarget". (I get the feeling from these kinds of bugs that the killtarget was a late addition to the code).
I suppose that because it won't ever get used, it doesn't really matter what you put in the "target" field. You do run the risk of triggering something out of turn in fixed/altered progs if you don't make the target a safe name(for example quoth and possibly hipnotic too).
Half Life 2 Mapping
#7426 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/05/19 01:11:48
currently, there's something in my hl2 map that's causing the engine to just quit. but the stupid thing doesn't give me any kind of error messages to help me understand what's going on.
does anyone know if there's like some kind of log i can look over or something of the type? it's impossible to fix a problem if i can't even find out what it is. -_-
#7427 posted by Trinca [89.181.81.133] on 2008/05/19 22:07:09
hl2 is crap delete the all map and remake it for Q1
Killtarget
#7428 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/05/20 06:01:05
I had a hard job on using the killtarget in an end monster pit.
I gave a trigger_once to activate the monster, but because the monster itself opened a space in the pit it had to be closed again. So I used a train with a wait function.
In that way I couldn't use the time it took to kill the monster to open the door again.
Later I found with a trigger relay target to the monsters death could killtarget the trigger_once. The func_train just disapeared.
It took quiet some time before I understood it was the trigger_once I had to killtarget and not the func_train.
But I saw some monsters in the map also just disapear and reapear, so I think it has something to do with mismatching parameters.
#7429 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/20 14:27:45
OK, here's a question. I've seen this in several id maps now and I don't get it. Look at E3M4 - from the player start position, there is an exit slipgate on the floor above. On top of that slipgate is a little trigger_teleport brush that will warp the player back to the start position - why?
Probably Just So You Get That Distinct Ambient Teleport Sound Effect.
#7430 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2008/05/20 14:38:58
Willem
#7431 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.231] on 2008/05/20 15:19:11
Maybe related to betatesting and forgotten to remove?
I just stumbled on this yesterday: http://www.inside3d.com/qip/q1/qcw...
Czg Is Correct
#7432 posted by Orl [209.146.26.5] on 2008/05/20 16:13:54
Since a teleport ambient sound does not exist as a seperate entity, a real teleport has to be used to create the sound. No bugs here.
#7433 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/20 16:45:12
Huh, OK. Seems they should have made trigger_changelevel emit the sound then.
Also For The Start Portals
#7434 posted by Orl [209.146.26.5] on 2008/05/20 20:14:28
Such as the beginning of e4m8, there is a real teleporter that goes nowhere above the blocked portal structure. It too, is there to emulate the teleporter sound.
Ooh
#7435 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.231] on 2008/05/20 21:04:50
Nice trick, thanks.
Hi, It's Me Again
#7436 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.230] on 2008/05/22 13:07:45
I am learning a lot with my rmx map.
Any idea with QuArK's Digger thing sometimes stops working? Eg I just used it to try some window positions (faster than doing the actual brushwork) and then added some brush and boom, three diggers don't work anymore. This happened with another one earlier.
Spirit
#7437 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/05/22 13:29:25
Don't use digger: it is baaaaaaad ;)
Ask rather on QuArK forum here: http://quark.planetquake.gamespy.c... as it sounds to be more related to QuArK use than mapping issue itself :P
#7438 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/22 15:39:17
The digger is only bad if you're excessively anal about your brushes and need to control every single cut yourself.
Oh wait, right, nevermind. Forgot what site I was on for a moment there. :)
Hey
#7439 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.230] on 2008/05/22 16:37:48
I said I just used it to try some window positions, ok!
It's not too important as I can simply put a normal brush there, the digger just looks nicer until I properly brush it. Just thought I would ask.
Did anyone manage to setup those fancy templates that were added recently? The process is simply retarted anmd for me it once half worked but never usable: http://quark.planetquake.gamespy.c...
Spirit
#7440 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/05/22 18:20:01
The problem with digger is that it generates HOM most of the times, and also it basically a hole creator that sucks... just due to texturing difficulty...
Well, I tried to use it in my first map, and I've been adviced by Vondur to not use it anymore, so I did...and it was not a bad advice.. Anyway, perhaps I have to test a little bit more the feature :P but I really doubt it will improve my stuff....
Preach
#7441 posted by ijed [86.139.207.12] on 2008/05/23 15:38:30
Where do I look in order to fix the killtarget / target bug?
- a la Quoth1.
If its not a bug then I'll have to create a new function to handle the extra target?
SKIP Textures
#7442 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/23 16:26:56
Can anyone point me to source code for a QBSP compiler that supports SKIP textures? I'm interested in learning about them...
Newskip.exe
#7443 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.111] on 2008/05/23 16:40:42
its a post full-compile tool, and it works just fine, Metlslime made it!! I used it for the fuse part of Slave. you just run:
newskip -mapname
all there is to it (just texture skip-able faces with a texture called "skip")
The old skip tool (can't remember who made it) doesn't like light tools, and the light tools dont like it)
I've got it at home, I can post it later but I'm sure if you google "newskip.exe Quake" you'll probably find it somewhere...
#7444 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/23 16:43:32
Well, thanks, but I'd rather implement it at the QBSP level so it writes out a BSP file that is ready to rock.
It's Finding Light/vis Tools Which Dont Fuck Up
#7445 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.19.111] on 2008/05/23 17:03:40
when they hit a skipped face. You see it basically removes the faces completely, and from my experience light and vis tools throw fatal errors at you every time :-( , so it can only be done after the process I'm afraid.
Although I can only speak from my level, if you know what I mean ;-P
but if you dont need to vis/light then I guess you could write it into a QBSP tool (?)
#7446 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/23 17:20:53
Right. I know the Quest source code is available and they claim to support SKIP textures in QBSP but I was wondering if there were any others.
Killtarget Bug
#7447 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/23 18:19:04
Do you mean the one where a monster needs a target in order to fire it's killtarget, or the one where having a killtarget prevents target from firing?
For the former, the code you need to change lies in monster_death_use in monsters.qc. The line that reads
if (!self.target)
return;
should be changed to
if (!self.target && !self.killtarget)
return;
or just commented out, SUB_UseTargets can handle empty strings properly just fine.
The latter problem is a bit harder. The problem is in SUB_UseTargets in subs.qc, find the portion of code that begins
if (self.killtarget)
{
...
}
The do...while bit loops over all the entities, until a return is hit when t is the world entity - which in quake terms means we've gone through the whole list. The problem is we'd like to have it just break out of the loop, rather than return from the whole function - as currently it makes it skip the last portion that checks for targets. Solution 1 is to turn that little loop, everything I cut out from the quote above, into it's own function. Then just call your new function from the same point in the code the loop used to occupy.
Solution 2 is to rewrite the loop so the while condition actually breaks you out of the loop at the right time, without ever removing the world. That would look like:
t = find (world, targetname, self.killtarget);;
while(t)
{
remove (t);
t = find (t, targetname, self.killtarget);
}
Notice how we initialise t to the first found item, and put the while(t) at the front of the loop. This is so that if there are no entities with that targetname, the find returns world, and we skip the first iteration of the loop. Removing world crashes the server, so we really want to avoid that.
#7448 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/23 20:20:07
I'm beginning to suspect that I'm the only guy writing tools anymore - aren't I? :)
Willem...
#7449 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/05/23 21:47:02
There is no compiler that currently supports skip faces, so for now it's done as a post-processing step. Everyone uses either tyrann's original "skip.exe" or my "newskip.exe", which both operate on the same principle -- leave the faces in the bsp, but shuffle them around and lower the marksurface and face counts, so that the game rendrerer doesn't try to render them. Example:
Leaf before processing:
marksurface count: 5
markrsurface array: 1,2,3,4,5
Leaf after processing:
marksurface count: 3
markrsurface array: 1,4,5,2,3 (2 and 3 won't be drawn)
The potential advantages to qbsp support is that it could save lightmaps, reduce light time, lower file size, and reduce the global marksurface count. I don't know how easy or hard it would actually be to write.
I suppose the advantage to the current situation is that you can use any qbsp you want and you don't have to forfeit using skip textures.
P.S.
#7450 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/05/23 21:48:43
This may be obvious, but if you add skip support to qbsp, you should not do it the cheesy way that our tools do it, you should support it the right way by fully deleting / never creating those faces in the bsp file.
#7451 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/05/23 23:12:48
That's what I want to do, metl. Of course, we'll have to see if my incompetence proves too much for the task.
Skip
#7452 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/05/24 01:34:42
the old skip tool is a bit buggy and doesn't support skip on fluids. Metls skip tool supports skip, waterskip, lavaskip and slimeskip textures so you can use it for effects like glass using water brushes and glass underwater etc.
It's pretty nice.
Probably best to implement skip at the end so you don't somehow get lighting promblems from missing faces. Still I personally tend to use it only on solidents and water faces.
Willem:
#7453 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/05/24 03:48:17
here's the thread for newskip, with links.
(part 2 Of Previous Message)
#7454 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/05/24 03:48:36
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
#7455 posted by gone [78.37.13.216] on 2008/05/24 16:54:31
are there any up-to-date tuts on lighting for noobs?
Jumping Distances
#7456 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.98.127] on 2008/05/24 17:41:22
Does anyone know how far those cheating basta...., I mean trick jumpers, can jump across yawning caverns?
-bunny hopping
-grenade jump
-rocket jump
-vore ball fiend swipe
-double grenade mouse swipe back flip triple sulk ho
-etc
...given a flat surface and decent run up.
You Forgot...
#7457 posted by Bal [86.205.102.39] on 2008/05/24 17:44:29
Shambler Lightning Jump Surf.
Cheers Preach
#7458 posted by ijed [86.139.207.12] on 2008/05/24 18:29:34
I meant the former, but seeing as you answered both I'll attempt the 2nd when I get back as well, the second solution seeming to be the cleaner way to resolve the issue.
Been away for awhile and get back in a few days, will be nice to be mucking about with Quake again.
@spirit
#7459 posted by rudl [78.104.11.211] on 2008/05/24 19:10:58
Never had that that a digger does not work. But when you have a digger in a group it only affects brushes in it, which is very usefull:
a room= two brushes: one of them is a digger. Group them. Put stuff into that room but not into that group.
Push Problem
#7460 posted by negke [82.82.180.200] on 2008/05/24 19:21:12
I have a trigger_push jumppad that doesn't work for some reason. It's placed a few units about a func_wall/floor and uses angles -90 0 0</a>. Touching it from the side slows down the player, jumping activates the push; touching it from above works fine.
Does Quoth have the coop item bug (items firing targets) fixed?
Negke
#7461 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/05/24 20:29:58
I recreated your scenario, and indeed the same thing happens as you describe.
A quick workaround I found was to set the angles to -90.1 0 0. This pushes the player in a different direction very slightly, but only by about a few units, and it seems to work.
Still Doesn't Work
#7462 posted by negke [82.82.180.200] on 2008/05/24 23:39:06
I tried different angles for all axes. This is likely related to the angle 0/360 thing. All other jumppads work.
Jumppad
#7463 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/25 00:05:11
You could try 270 0 0, I can't think why it's not working but if -90.1 works then 270 might also.
Does Quoth have the coop item bug (items firing targets) fixed?
Do you mean things that you touch firing their targets when you touch them, even if you can't pick them up like a weapon you already own? Yes, this has been fixed in quoth, although I remember me and Kell took a while working out what the right behaviour should be. Weapons will fire the first time they are touched by a player, regardless of whether they are picked up by that touch. Keys also work like this now, although it's not easy to have this problem in coop without allowing coop key cheating.
There is one oversight in the quoth fix of this problem to date. It is still possible for an armour pickup to make a trigger impossible - if the player has equal or better armour than what you want them to pick up. This isn't exclusively a coop issue though, it exists in single player too, so it kinda figures why it didn't get changed...yeah.
Hmm
#7464 posted by megaman [92.73.95.90] on 2008/05/25 16:12:28
i need a door that:
-opens when shot at from one side
-opens by trigger from that same side
-doesn't open from the other side
-displays a message when being shot at from that other side
-does all that multiple times
-oh and it needs to be passable ;)
my problem here is the shootable triggers - they are solid, right? can you disable stuff and then enable it again?
You Can Make A Button
#7465 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.205] on 2008/05/25 17:39:37
then use Metlslime's skip tool to make it invisible, or make a shootable door with a set close time which is also invisible. You can make doors and buttons which are invisible, either can be set to be shot to activate, this is how you can make it so that it only works from one side of the door....
hope that helps... :-o
The Moon On A Stick...
#7466 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/25 23:53:28
...that's what you want, megaman.
There's a way to do this, but it's in no way pleasant. Here's how it goes:
You need to split your door into a front half and a back half, and make sure the front door is higher in the entity list than the back. Make both of these entities into func_wall entities. We're now going to trick the game into thinking these walls are in fact doors, although we get to pick what functions they run when hurt or touched.
So to begin, give the front and back doors all of these keys
speed (set as usual for a door)
wait (ditto)
health 1
maxhealth 1
pos2 (offset vector - see below)
takedamage 1
state 1
In addition, give the front door
think LinkDoors
nextthink 0.5
th_die door_kiled
touch door_use
noise1 (path to the sound you want played when the door stops)
noise2 (path to the sound you want played while the door moves)
and the back door
th_die SUB_Null
The offset should be how far you want the door to move when it opens. So if it opens vertically upwards 128 units from where it starts, then set pos2 to '0 0 128'.
At this point, you should have a pair of doors that link together when they spawn, so that if you shoot or touch the front part of the door, it opens. When you touch the back door, it should do nothing, and when you shoot it all that happens is it bleeds.
Once you get to that stage, post on here. The final trick to get a message sent to the player when you shoot the back door. That last part is the most difficult thing, because there's a complication or two which means we can't just paste the normal shootable trigger death function into th_die. I may have a way to do it though, but it's best that you have everything in the map working first. If it does work you'll need to do a bit of editing the ents file for it...
Hrrrm
#7467 posted by megaman [92.72.12.171] on 2008/05/26 01:08:16
wow, thank you preach.
I have it simplified a bit, which isn't that cool, but requires less of a hack.
I'll see if i find time in the next days to try your suggestion.
What About That Two Doors Thing I Mentioned
#7468 posted by negke [82.82.163.31] on 2008/05/26 08:08:41
Two func_door entities next to each other (touching, door_dont_link NOT set), one for each side of the actual door. First door has to be triggered to open and displays the message when touched, the other one has health and opens when shot (only from one side).
Wouldn't that work (haven't tested it)?
Yeah
#7469 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/05/26 09:57:41
That will work in a similar way. The message for the back door will disappear as soon as the door is opened either by trigger or by shooting. Also it means you can't hijack the way that the back door behaves when you shoot it, but if you're sending the message on touch, that's less of a problem.
Yep
#7470 posted by megaman [92.72.12.171] on 2008/05/26 11:39:23
i'm using that, without message triggers. Wait, can doors have a message?
/me checks
i'm such a q1 mapping noob :(
(new)skip Again
#7471 posted by megaman [92.72.6.214] on 2008/05/26 16:05:09
it doesn't seem to work here, skip surfaces always stay and it's always reporting
----- newskip version 1.0 -----
copyright 2007 John Fitzgibbons
Filename: megad2lvl3-2.bsp
Removed 0 faces.
and my .map file looks like this:
// brush 646
{
( -2016 352 224 ) ( -2048 352 224 ) ( -2016 224 224 ) skip 0 0 0 1 1
( -1728 352 256 ) ( -1760 320 128 ) ( -1728 352 128 ) metalt2_3 0 0 0 1 1
( -1728 224 128 ) ( -1728 224 256 ) ( -1728 352 256 ) skip 0 0 0 1 1
( -1856 224 128 ) ( -1856 224 256 ) ( -1728 224 256 ) skip 0 0 0 1 1
( -1856 352 256 ) ( -1728 352 256 ) ( -1728 224 256 ) skip 0 0 0 1 1
}
i tried calling it right after bsp or after light. What are the other possible pitfalls?
#7472 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/26 16:18:44
I assume your WAD file contains a texture called "skip"? Because if you hand edited the MAP file then QBSP wouldn't find the skip texture and it would assign it the default checkerboard which might cause the skip tool to fail.
That's probably not helpful but there you go!
Wow
#7473 posted by megaman [92.72.6.214] on 2008/05/26 16:34:18
ah, that makes sense - why would the bsp replace the texture though? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot sense ;)
#7474 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/26 17:31:03
It doesn't replace it necessarily but since it can't find a texture called "skip" in the WAD file it nulls out the reference and the game draws it as a checkerboard (the default texture). You should get an error when you try to QBSP that MAP file saying something about the SKIP texture wasn't found...
Well
#7475 posted by megaman [92.73.80.187] on 2008/05/26 22:22:41
the replacing part doesn't make much sense.
q3map just assumes a default texture size (so the uvs are scaled wrong) but leaves the face intact otherwise.
#7476 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/26 22:30:39
Oh, I can't speak for Quake3 ... sorry, I was talking about what I know from Quake1's QBSP code.
Texture Question
#7477 posted by distrans [149.144.189.66] on 2008/05/27 07:19:29
There's a .wad a the shubhub named 'ikbase_r2', is this the definitive ikbase .wad? Are there further variations lurking elsewhere?
Megaman:
#7478 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/05/27 08:04:22
basically, if a texture is not in the wad, qbsp doesn't create an entry in the bsp, and if it's not in the bsp, there will not even be a name that can be read by engines/tools.
Distrans
#7479 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.16] on 2008/05/27 08:55:00
should be:
http://ikq.planetquake.gamespy.com...
Spirit...
#7480 posted by distrans [59.167.236.18] on 2008/05/27 11:48:04
...thank you.
Having Issues Compiling?
#7481 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 02:32:29
iv got worldcraft 3.3 with the addon that lets u map for quake, but i cant seem to compile my map, i get a error in each and every step of the compilation process.
OK - What Are Your Errors?
#7482 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.247] on 2008/05/29 02:40:33
Give some details, and there may be a solution!
One thing I will say is that the WorldCraft process window has always been a problem, and it would be recommended that you run your compiling programs under a command prompt (i.e. start> programs> accessories> command prompt - then:
cd c:\(insert your .map file and tools dir here)
txqbsp (mapname)
vis -fast (mapname) ==> "-level 4" instead of "-fast" for full compile
light (mapname)
OK, so you may well know all of the above already :P
Please specify the error for more help :-)
Here's The Error Log From The Compiler.
#7483 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 03:17:35
i used to have a batch compiler for hl1 i could get it again u think that would work betteR?
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: c:\quake
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\testmap1.m... "c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1.m...
The command failed. Windows reported the error:
"The system cannot find the path specified."
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\nomapv...
** Parameters: "c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1&q...
** Executing...
** Command: C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\QBSP.EXE
** Parameters: "c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1&q...
Transparent water QBSP with Hipnotic extensions
MultiWAD version 1.65
by Ken Alverson based on original code by John Carmack
outputfile: c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp
************ ERROR ************
Error opening c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1.map: No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\rvis.exe
** Parameters: "c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1&q...
---- vis ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp: No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\light....
** Parameters: "c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1&q...
----- Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
************ ERROR ************
Error opening c:\quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp: No such file or directory
Elapsed time : 0:00
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Quake\glquake.exe
** Parameters: +map "testmap1"
Weird!
#7484 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.247] on 2008/05/29 03:40:39
Er - what is happening there is that the compilers arent configured properly, I can only speak for myself here but I put the compilers in c:\quake\id1\maps, which is the same place that I store the working rmf and map files. This way the only dir that Worldcraft crappy process window has to look is the one folder that all of the files are in!
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview...
Although I will say:
"** Parameters: "c:\quake\ id1\maps\testmap1&q..."
what the hell is the &q doing at the end of this line? Heh - I don't know!
This is a stupid one: - does the dir c:\quake\id1\maps\ exist on your PC?? (I assume so, but you never know!)
From the log it seems that the error first occurrs during the copy file process - because of this none of the other tools will work because the file did not copy to the destination folder, which is where the compilers are looking for the file....
Hmmm
Yep
#7485 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 03:49:54
yea, those dir's all exist on my pc lol actually i manually put all the files there myself to try and fix the issue. ill try doing what you have done to fix the issue and if that doesnt work, ill try my batch compiler.
If In Doubt
#7486 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.247] on 2008/05/29 03:52:11
use a command prompt!
You have more control over each step of the comiplation process this way! Just stick all of yer tools in a folder like "c:\quaketools\" or something, then in Worldcraft go:
file> "export to .MAP">
then save it in "c:\quaketools"
then run from the way I described in my first reply, or write all of the commands in a batch file and run the batch file, i.e:
open notepad and write:
@echo Compiling testmap1
@echo Running...
@QBSP testmap1
@vis testmap1
@light -extra testmap1
@echo Finished! Now copy the .bsp file to c:\quake\id1\maps, run Quake and type "map testmap1" on the console...
save this file to c:\quaketools as a .bat file (rather than a txt file), go to c:\quaktools and doubleclick on the .bat file...
If this seems very patronising of me then I'm sorry! Im sure one of the other guys will know a simpler solution!! :P
Heh
#7487 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.247] on 2008/05/29 03:53:14
I bet this DOES sound quite patronising, sorry, I was typing the last one when you replied!
Lol K,
#7488 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 04:45:34
ill try all solutions and which ever one works the best, ill use that one from now on lol thanks guys.
Tryed...
#7489 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 04:57:58
tryed writing the bat file u suggested even copyed and pasted what u said to write and ran it , and the command window just opened and closed no bsp.
#7490 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.169] on 2008/05/29 08:06:32
Well, the error is right the first command where the .map is copied somewhere else:
Make 200% sure these folders are the right:
C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\
c:\quake\id1\maps\
Hold On
#7491 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 12:32:05
hold on i might done your way the wrong way i didnt type it in command promt i just double clicked it afterwards lol
Doing It Manually Should Definately Work!
#7492 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.146] on 2008/05/29 13:33:48
the "nomapversion" program is not important, all it does is remove a key from the enitity "worldspawn" which is "mapversion" "220"
This is not critical, it will still run just fine in Quake.
Putting your .map file in a folder like "c:\quaketools\" with your tools, and running the tools one at a time from the command prompt should definately work!
The error report from your process window could be re-posted here, because there is a limit to the size of one word on this messageboard, so if you re-post the error log but put some spaces in to break up the large strings of characters, we will be able to see the complete filenames....
That might help.
Ok Lol...
#7493 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/29 16:49:14
evidently all the csg files and such just disappeared. i have a batch compiler that has been set up for quake i just dont have the batch fiels.
Can One Hope For Colored Light Support
#7494 posted by gone [78.37.16.126] on 2008/05/29 23:45:28
from Bengt Jardrup? ligh compiler and engine too
since more and more maps and mappers are using it, and Bengt`s light tool is probably the best and his engines are good at handling big crowded maps and preferd by many
:-)
#7495 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.201] on 2008/05/30 02:44:30
All That Has
#7496 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/30 03:49:28
all that has is vis... :(
Speeds
#7497 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/05/30 08:12:51
I asked aguirRe the same question a while ago (i.e: when his engine will support colored lights), but he answered it is not part of his plan yet... Maybe he will changed of mind if enough people are pushing for...
aguirRe, any comments ?
#7498 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/30 14:38:18
lol anyone know where i can download all of the compiling tools ?
Yeah
#7499 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.146] on 2008/05/30 14:50:37
Look at AguirRe's profile under "people" at the top of this page, and go to his homepage! It's excellent! You can also read his Quake One Tooltips document, it contains a lot of info, and it's a brilliant resource to look up error messages, find out what they mean and how to overcome them...
I Would Recommend
#7500 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.146] on 2008/05/30 14:55:42
you use "TxQbsp", it's the best bsp tool ever dude! Its extremely stable. Also his modified GlQuake is an excellent tool just to run maps which wont run in other engines. Often you find that it will run your map and tell you what is wrong with it! It is generally considered good paractise that you create maps to run in other engines, although there are some maps and mods out there which will only run in AGlQuake because they are over the engine limits.....
New Log....
#7501 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/31 01:26:04
so, whats up now? i got a new repot on my log.
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: c:\quake
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\testmap1.m... "C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.map&...
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\quaketools\txqbsp...
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1"...
TxQBSP 1.12 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Inputfile: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.map
Outputfile: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp
------ LoadMapFile ------
216 faces
37 brushes
7 entities
8 miptex
30 texinfo
Added 7 texture frames
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
----+----+
35 brushes read
------ CSGFaces ------
----+----+
204 brushfaces
158 csgfaces
150 mergedfaces
------ SolidBSP ------
172 split nodes
48 solid leafs
108 empty leafs
17 water leafs
401 leaffaces
390 nodefaces
------ FillOutside ------
84 outleafs
------ MergeAll ------
98 mergefaces
------ SolidBSP ------
----+----+
49 split nodes
28 solid leafs
19 empty leafs
3 water leafs
178 leaffaces
142 nodefaces
------ Portalize ------
22 vis leafs
38 vis portals
------ Tjunc ------
134 world edges
472 edge points
162 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
------ MakeFaceEdges ------
----+----+
------ GrowRegions ------
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
------ FinishBSPFile ------
WriteBSPFile: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp
90 planes 1800
203 vertexes 2436
61 nodes 1464
30 texinfo 1200
158 faces 3160
192 clipnodes 1536
35 leafs 980
194 marksurfaces 388
798 surfedges 3192
400 edges 1600
15 textures 185624
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 565
Elapsed time : 0:02
Peak memory used : 0.4 MB
** Executing...
** Command: C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\QBSP.EXE
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1"...
Transparent water QBSP with Hipnotic extensions
MultiWAD version 1.65
by Ken Alverson based on original code by John Carmack
outputfile: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp
************ ERROR ************
parsing brush
** Executing...
** Command: C:\BSP\Quake\Bats\rvis.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1"...
---- vis ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\maps\testmap1.bsp: No such file or directory
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Quake\glquake.exe
** Parameters: +map "testmap1"
Duh
#7502 posted by negke [82.82.186.116] on 2008/05/31 01:45:22
Don't use such stupid batch files.
Just run the tools individually in the command prompt -at least to see if it works. Qbsp, vis, light - it's as simple as that. The log above looks like there's something wrong with your batch, as if two QBSPs are run. Delete the second one (by Ken Alversion). Then it should work.
Yeah
#7503 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.201] on 2008/05/31 01:58:44
you only need to run TxQbsp, it contains all of the features of WQbsp (Ken Alverson's) but it's more modern and has plently other newer features (it's stable as hell)
First run TxQbsp (with no commands)
Then run Vis (type "vis -fast testmap1", or "vis -level 4 testmap1")
Then run light (type "light -extra4 testmap1", or "light -gate testmap1")
then you can run the map in Quake! :-)
If you read the documentation on AguirRe's hompepage it will tell you all of the commands for his tools...
Heh
#7504 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.201] on 2008/05/31 02:04:49
if you read that log you will see that TxQbsp sucessfully comiles your map with no warnings! But then WQbsp tries to do the same thing and crashes. If you had run the tools one at a time you would have been able to view the map at that point, just with no vis (visual optimisation) and no lighting. The light and vis would have worked if WQbsp hadn't scrambled the perfectly good .bsp file that TxQbsp had created...
(dont worry dude, I found it all very confusing to begin with)
Alright
#7505 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/31 02:22:31
so far got it workin hehe thanx guys, u know of a website with a forum like this that i can ask modeling questions ?
Well, Errr........
#7506 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.201] on 2008/05/31 03:34:17
OK, I have never really tried this! If you plan to mod for Quake1 I would look at:
http://www.inside3d.com
Err, there are some tools at
http://www.planetquake.com
There's much much more but I.. I just ...
(Im no coder...)
He Said Modeling (modelling)
#7507 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/05/31 08:45:09
not modding.
Bat Files Are Not Stupid!
#7508 posted by rudl [78.104.10.236] on 2008/05/31 11:00:04
Open the bat files with a text editor. And look at the paths and modify them. Where is the Problem?!?
Program Files!!! Sux
#7509 posted by rudl [78.104.10.236] on 2008/05/31 11:06:08
I think I wrote Progra*1
* is not correct but I cant write the "Wave" :(
#7510 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/05/31 12:02:21
Put it in quotation marks. That's how you specify to DOS that it's a long filename with spaces in it. So "c:\program files\windows sucks\qbsp".
However, if you're going to store your maps and things in 'program files' you'll probably find that the Quake tools aren't fans of paths containing spaces.
#7511 posted by rudl [78.104.10.236] on 2008/05/31 12:30:14
My fast.bat :
..\bats\Txqbsp %1
..\bats\light -extra %1
..\bats\vis -fast %1
copy %1.bsp \Progra~1\games\quake\ID1\maps
cd \Progra~1\games\quake
glquake.exe -width 1280 -height 1024 -bpp 32 -heapsize 30000 +map %1
works
My Comp.bat
#7512 posted by bambuz [91.152.87.250] on 2008/05/31 14:17:53
qbsp -oldaxis %1
vis %1
light -gate 1 %1
copy %1.pts c:\quake\id1\maps
copy %1.bsp c:\quake\id1\maps
I Have Quake Shortcuts
#7513 posted by bambuz [91.152.87.250] on 2008/05/31 14:19:04
in ctrl-alt-w (fitz)
and ctrl-alt-a (fuhquake)
You can set up keyboard shortcuts on desktop shortcuts. Very useful.
Is There A Better Fgd I Can Get Cuz
#7514 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/05/31 14:49:39
on here - http://www.denken.com/dzone/q1mapp...
there are a bunch of entities i dont have
Killa
#7515 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/05/31 21:22:15
models info:
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/classes/A...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~renep/qmehel...
Also Preach's tutorial is usefull:
http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php...
I can't help you with your fgd, because I don't use WorldCraft.
?
#7516 posted by Killa [70.126.214.172] on 2008/06/01 02:19:37
then what do you use, is there a better program? thats just as easy as worldcraft?
Some People Tend To Use QERadiant Or GTKRadient Or
#7517 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.201] on 2008/06/01 02:38:43
whatever....
Or QuArK. or BSP
But not me! :-)
Q3Radiant
#7518 posted by BlackDog [58.7.170.114] on 2008/06/01 02:40:45
Has good quake support. You may or may not prefer it.
P.S. Use 1.4, 1.5 bites.
#7519 posted by [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/06 16:34:38
"The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process" is the error I get after trying to compile the first map/room I ever made into a bsp. When I try to run my map to compile it into a a bsp using QBSP.exe and Vis.exe and LIGHT.exe that is the error I get. Can anyone help me out?
Save To A .map File
#7520 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.229] on 2008/06/06 18:05:58
then run qbsp with the file ie "qbsp mymapnamehere" in command prompt by having all the utils and the map file in the same directory. Wait till it finishes. Then run vis and then light. In similar style.
Use aguirre's utils.
That "file in use" thing might be if some program was using the file and then crashed so it never released the lock. You might try to exit the editor, relogon, reboot or something to clear the lock. You must not run any of those tools simultaneously, but one at a time.
#7521 posted by Me again [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/06 18:15:04
OK so when I tried to convert to BSP using your method in command prompt I typed: ""C:\Documents and Settings\Sam.HOME-Z41XARD8MU\Deskt... first
First is the name of my map. I tried just simply typing "QBSP First" but windows couldn't find the file. So when I did what I tried above, a window would pop up for like a second then disappear.
#7522 posted by Me again [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/06 18:18:44
Wait I'm sorry.. Actually when I did it with qbsp I got: "first.h1", "first.h2", "first.prt", and "first.pts" but no "first.bsp" when I tried doing it with Vis and Light I got nothing new. just a split second window.
Copy
#7523 posted by bambuz [130.233.243.229] on 2008/06/06 18:19:46
the .map file (in my example evil.map) and qbsp.exe into the same directory like c:\maps
then go to command prompt and type these two lines (end with enter)
cd maps
qbsp evil
Leak?
#7524 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.27] on 2008/06/06 18:53:09
That looks like you have a leaked map.
#7525 posted by [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/06 19:25:56
Nevermind.. after messing around I realized that my file extension was too long so I had to move everything to C:/ . Thanks for your help here guys.
Sorry
#7526 posted by Me again [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/07 06:59:10
Hey sorry to bother you all but I get this error when I try to compile my map:
LoadPortals: couldn't read C:\QUAKE\2nd.prt
is it because of a leak or something? too many textures?
#7527 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.175.183] on 2008/06/07 07:14:02
If the portal file (.prt) does not exist, then the map has leaked, yes. QBSP will have generated a pointfile (.pts) instead, which you can use to try to find the source of the leak.
Copy the pointfile (it should be 2md.pts for you here) into your quake/id1/maps directory. Load the map and type pointfile in the console.
You will see a dashed line coming from a nearby entity and going through a hole in the map (at least hopefully that's what you'll see, the pointfile isn't always completely reliable...)
Hey Again
#7528 posted by LEAK! [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/07 07:35:19
OK so I did what you told me the first time and it pointed me to the leak.. my leak was that the sky was open to the outside.. so i moved the sky down and made it bigger to cover the top of the screen. I try again. It gives me the same error again. So I try pointfile and it tells me "not enough free particles" "no points read" you think you can help me? Thanks in advance.
On a side note: How do I get more light into my maps? I put so many globes and torches and a lot of my map is still dark.. I even added a sky.
LEAK!
#7529 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/06/07 10:48:32
In the worldspawn, you have to add a light field, and set a value: it will give a minimum light for the map, and then no more completely dark areas ;)
#7530 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2008/06/07 11:30:39
In the worldspawn, you have to add a light field, and set a value: it will give a minimum light for the map, and then no more completely dark areas ;)
don't do this. it looks horrible
you just need to scatter ambient lights around carefully and play with their values; not all your light needs to come from torches or globes. it's very much a case of trial and error.
as a very rough example guide, in corridor type areas i put ambient ents 64 units off the ground, about 192 units apart from eachother and will typically give them a value of between about 140 and 170 depending how light i want it in there. then for bigger rooms it's a case of spacing them further out & increasing the values.. you really need to experiment though. and contrast between light & dark is important; you need sources lights & well-lit areas but quake wouldn't be quake without the dark shadows!
*sourced Lights
#7531 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2008/06/07 11:41:27
that should be.
one other thing to add, a nicer alternative to minlight for quickly lighting large areas is having a couple of lights with 'delay' set to '1' (assuming you have a custom light compiler). try putting one at the centre of a large room & tweaking its values, although it shouldn't be too high and there definitely shouldn't be more than a few in the same area (unless you're using them as an alternative to sunlight). really they're best used as an accompaniment to normal lights, rather than a replacement
Rj
#7532 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/06/07 14:43:38
It is however possible to have complete dark areas, even with some minimum light value set in the worldspawn.. Just use antilights, and compile with -nominlimit during lightning processing, in huge map it is necessary ;)
There Are Over 1000 Lights In My Current Project
#7533 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/07 18:28:03
and only 95 monsters....
RickyT23
#7534 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/06/07 21:25:43
you should do the opposite: 1000 monsters and 95 lights :P
Antilights..
#7535 posted by rj [86.1.160.132] on 2008/06/07 21:32:18
i'm aware of them, used them before. i didn't mean select dark areas though, i meant all those little shadows & corners that otherwise wouldn't get touched by light. flooding them all with flat dim light sucks so much potential atmosphere out of maps & makes them look ugly, imho (that was actually my main gripe with 5rivers)
and it's never 'necessary', no matter how big the map. just lazy :p
Yeah - Minlight
#7536 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/07 21:43:07
I have learnwed that minlight is a bit crappy - it was used well in "The Bile Plant" alongside some light fog, but generally alowing maps to have areas wich are black is good. So no minlight !!
Used these instead:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "60"
"wait" "0.18"
}
Usefull to light up areas whcih are completely black but you don't want them to be....
#7537 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/07 21:56:03
What does the wait key do in a light? Obviously it's for a specialized lighting program but what does it affect? Fall off?
Wait Key
#7538 posted by negke [82.83.15.62] on 2008/06/07 22:03:05
It determines a light's fade distance. Higher values makes it fade faster.
#7539 posted by to ricky [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/07 22:51:05
Hey Well I just started mapping.. what do i do with that code you gave me? also how do i apply fog, make breakable glass, etc.?
#7540 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.188] on 2008/06/08 01:12:14
what code who gave you and you need to use a mod for breakable glass.
"60" lights sound pretty dark to me, there is nothing wrong with making bright areas bright (200-max (255?)) actually.
Mysterious Poster Of #7239
#7541 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 01:15:19
I assume your name isn't "to ricky" :-)
Well when you make a map, the output of your editor is always in .map format. You can open this file in wordpad or notepad (I use notepad, although there are apparently better text editors). Try opening a map file in a text editor, and scroll to the end of the text (of which there will be shitloads!) The end of the map file is where all of the entities are put.
In more practical terms, in my case I use Worldcraft, whenj I put a light entity into the map by default the light has a bunch of "keys" - these are the settings or parameters of the entity. If I look at the properties of my light entity in Worldcraft it gives me the option of using "smart edit" - sometimes I use "smart edit" but to add a "wait" key to a light entity I need to turn it off. Then click on "add". This sends me to a window where I can enter the "key" and it's "value". So in this case the key would be "wait" and the value would be "0.18" without the quote marks.
As for the wait key on lights, well it works with Tyrlite and AguirRe's light tool - ot makes the light travel further or less distance!
values > 1 = the light travels LESS distance
values < 1 = the light travels MORE distance.
I like to put lights like:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "450"
"wait" "6"
}
close to sourced lights, but along side that I would put another light which is less bright but travels further like:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "60"
"wait" "0.2"
}
and maybe another like
editor is always in .map format. You can open this file in wordpad or notepad (I use notepad, although there are apparently better text editors). Try opening a map file in a text editor, and scroll to the end of the text (of which there will be shitloads!) The end of the map file is where all of the entities are put.
In more practical terms, in my case I use Worldcraft, whenj I put a light entity into the map by default the light has a bunch of "keys" - these are the settings or parameters of the entity. If I look at the properties of my light entity in Worldcraft it gives me the option of using "smart edit" - sometimes I use "smart edit" but to add a "wait" key to a light entity I need to turn it off. Then click on "add". This sends me to a window where I can enter the "key" and it's "value". So in this case the key would be "wait" and the value would be "0.18" without the quote marks.
As for the wait key on lights, well it works with Tyrlite and AguirRe's light tool - ot makes the light travel further or less distance!
values > 1 = the light travels LESS distance
values < 1 = the light travels MORE distance.
I like to put lights like:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "450"
"wait" "6"
}
close to sourced lights, but along side that I would put another light which is less bright but travels further like:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "160"
}
which is just a normal light!
You can have loads of light entities in a very small map! This way you can make a more realistic lighting effect IMHO! It has to be done right, and it's never completely simple. I always have to change things a few times to get it right.....
Breakable Glass:
#7542 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 01:18:40
You can map for Quoth 2!
If you make a brush (of what will be glass) into a "func_breakable", and then give it a "alpha" key with a value of "0.25" then that would behave like breakable glass, but it would only work in engines which suport alpha on brushmodels, like AguirRe's modified GLQuake, or Darkplaces or whatever........
You Cant Do It In Normal Quake
#7543 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 01:19:37
only the Quoth mod.
You can have glass in normal Quake, but not breakable......
Err....#7541
#7544 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 01:22:15
Oops! heh - just ignore the stuff thats in there twice......
#7545 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/08 01:42:17
Ahh OK. In ToeTag, if I wanted a hot light with a large fall off I would do something like:
"_light" "250 64 150 300"
A little easier to do and better for control since you can input the exact radii that you want to use. Above, that would be a 250 brightness light for 64 units and then a 150 with fall off for the next 300.
One Last Question
#7546 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/08 06:20:35
Ok thanks guys. One last question.... Can I make my own textures?
Ghost
#7547 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/06/08 09:26:22
Yes, it is possible: all textures are generally 8-bit indexed (that uses quake palette: see there http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
) and texture dimension must 16x16 multiples (e.g 16x16, 16x32, 32x16, 64x64, etc... etc...)
Enjoy !
#7548 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.188] on 2008/06/08 10:19:59
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/
http://www.celephais.net/stuff/tex...
Handy
#7549 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2008/06/08 10:20:43
http://members.home.nl/gimli/PALSI...
Don't forget Wally for converting them.
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/i...
Thakns Guys But
#7550 posted by GHOST [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/08 15:44:38
Thanks guys but how do I turn an image that I have INTO a texture using wally?
Just Copy Your Picture From Paint Or Whatever
#7551 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 16:04:25
and paste it into wally. If you create a new .wad file in Wally, you then right-click in the .wad files window, then click on "paste as new"
It converts it to the correct pallette automatically and even creates the incremented mip-maps.
#7552 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/08 16:45:15
Thanks again guys!! I think I got everything covered now thanks to you. I just have one last question... I have both worldcraft 1.6a and worldcraft 3.3 quaked.... I also have a wad to hlwad converter... do you think I should use 3.3 or 1.6a?
Ghost
#7553 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/06/08 17:29:07
That's really up to you, and also you'll get different answers on who you ask. RickyT23 will tell you to use 3.3, whereas I use 1.6a. 3.3 does have things like Enhanced texture positioning and faster rendering. But it also has its share of problems, like for me, its far to dark to see anything and there is no brightness adjuster.
Although using 1.6a involves a bit more work with texture aligning, you need to make the effort. Some of the greatest Q1SP maps were made from 1.6a.
My opinion, try them both out and see which one you feel most comfortable with.
And even if your not satisfied with either, there are other editors and well like Quark, BSP, Radient, ToeTag (Mac only) etc.
Experiment a little and see which version feels best.
If You're Gonna Use 3.3 Then Do A Google On:
#7554 posted by RickyT23 [90.211.135.131] on 2008/06/08 20:14:15
"quakeadapter"
Baker made a program which sets everything up for you!
Teams And Player Spawns
#7555 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/09 07:12:51
Hey. Is there some type of entity spawn for a player to spawn on a specific side of the map meant for his team? So like if you are playing a map with 2 bases and it's a team deathmatch, can I make a player on one team spawn on his base and all the other players spawn on their specific base?
Ghost
#7556 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.175.183] on 2008/06/09 07:55:40
As far as I know, this isn't possible in standard Quake. (It'd be possible with a mod, but there's no way to do it nicely without a mod).
It's a shame because it's one of the things that makes Quake team deathmatch fairly, well, shit.
I did see one workaround in a map called Rocket School (r-school.bsp). It wasn't a team deathmatch map, but it had a setup where you'd spawn in an isolated box room which contained teleporters to 3 different areas of the map. I assume there were many different copies of this spawn room, each with its own info_player_deathmatch, because I never got telefragged or shared a spawn room with anyone, even in a full game.
The problem with this is that it's open to exploitation - if a team was leading by just 1 or 2 frags and there wasn't much time remaining in the map, they could all hide in the spawn rooms and not exit, and win in a cheesy fashion.
You could possibly counter this to some extent by having a trigger with a small delay on it (3-5 seconds maybe?) which automatically teleported the player after spawning if they had not already moved out of the spawn room. This might work, I'm not sure.
Noob Question: No Textures In Gtkradiant 1.5.0
#7557 posted by st3ady [71.179.169.166] on 2008/06/10 07:05:14
How do I get textures to show up in gtk radiant 1.5.0? I tried changing the path to H:\Games\Quake and Quake\ID1 but still nothing. Any tips? I tried google searching this with no luck. Thanks!
#7558 posted by st3ady [71.179.169.166] on 2008/06/10 07:22:05
eh...nvm. I found this and it seems way too complicated.
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
Too lazy. I give up.
Uhm
#7559 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.66] on 2008/06/10 19:47:59
How do I disable transparent water using aguirRe's vis?
QBSP -nowatervis
#7560 posted by negke [82.83.0.126] on 2008/06/10 19:55:28
-nowatervis For Txqbsp
#7561 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/06/10 19:55:55
Ah
#7562 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.66] on 2008/06/10 20:06:40
I tried applying that to the vis commandline. Thanks to you two.
Errr
#7563 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/06/10 21:33:58
Does it have the same effect on glasses and skip feature ?
Invalid Brush Because Of Texture!?
#7564 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/11 22:40:42
I need help guys. I made a button and it worked. I changed the texture on it and all of a sudden it became an invalid brush (the texture was 256x256). When I removed the texture, it was still messed up and I had to delete the button. Why is this?
#7565 posted by ijed [190.20.81.66] on 2008/06/12 02:54:10
Ghost-
You can't mix texture types on a button, or any other brush for that matter - clip, * (liquid) and others are all different types. Animated textures + can be mixed on a brush with others, apart from liquid or clip.
JPL -
Nope. Originally vis was calculated seperately for each water volume to save compile time. Skip areas cannot have vis inside them since they're solid objects still and glass is just another entity, like a func_wall ie. you can delete or leave it there - it has no affect on vis at all.
#7566 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/12 07:27:33
Thanks for the tip, but my real problem was the my texture was named over 3 words, when textures are supposed to be only 1 word... Took me like an hour to remember that and fix it.
Lol I have another problem. I started using txqbsp and an updated version of light and vis. However I'm having this problem: I did not set any light entities but my map is fullbright. I checked my map properties and they are ordinary as I didn't change anything. I heard I need Qrad or something. Do you know where I can get that because I searched everywhere and couldn't find it. Thanks in advance.
#7567 posted by Spirit [213.39.204.64] on 2008/06/12 07:56:20
No light = fullbright. If you want darkness just put a tiny light somewhere. Then the rest will be pitch black. For testing you could add a "light" key to worldspawn with a value like "150". That light is rather dull by itself though so you would need to add highlights and shadows (if you plan to keep this). It's called minlight.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea... is a great read.
Stop Advocating Minlight, Spurty
#7568 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2008/06/12 09:11:25
I Love You
#7569 posted by Spirit [213.39.204.64] on 2008/06/12 10:39:58
I don't. Actually I first wrote something really mean but then I made it "for testing" and "rather dull" instead.
#7570 posted by Ghost [76.222.60.138] on 2008/06/12 17:12:19
Oh ok, thanks!
Monster Infighting
#7571 posted by Spirit [213.39.173.11] on 2008/06/13 22:45:21
I am writing some generic monster guide/list at the moment and got stuck.
Monsters infight only other monsters right? Except for grunts, those also attack their own kind? (And of course ogre_marksman, but that is another monster).
Are there any that do not infight?
I scanned through the qc but couldn't see anything about this. Probably it is "hidden in the logic".
Infighting
#7572 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.238.35] on 2008/06/14 00:52:31
Fish:can't remember seeing infights with them as underwater maps are rare.
And what about Chthon?
btw UWF has a detailed monster guide at his site:
http://underworld.planetquake.game...
Infighting
#7573 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/06/14 01:22:29
Spirit, you're right in what you say there - no monster with the same classname infight except for grunts. The code that describes this is all hidden in combat.qc, in the t_damage function.
I'd just like to add that this block of code is a real mess to read in Quoth, not that I'm blaming anybody necros.
Nah It's Ok
#7574 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/06/14 02:41:26
it *is* ugly.
the class check should have been a full rewrite of the infighting part. also, the added coop ai stuff is in there too which makes it double ugly.
Ah Snap
#7575 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.217] on 2008/06/14 08:59:53
I didn't know about UWF's list but it's interesting how similar mine turned out partly. :)
Thanks for the infos.
Leak Problem..
#7576 posted by rj [82.4.228.100] on 2008/06/15 16:50:31
hi aguiRre :)
so *apparently* i have a leak in my map. this is despite sealing it a long time ago and not making many major architectural changes since. at any rate, it compiled fine earlier this morning and i'll i've done since then is add a few bits & bobs at the opposite end of the map.
but now mr pointfile finds an area of the map i haven't touched for ages and comes up with this:
http://isoterra.co.uk/stuff/quake0...
it goes straight through a completely solid brush. i can fire rockets at that point and have them explode, i can even stand below it & set sv_gravity to -100 without falling out of the level. the weirdest thing is that 'FillOutside' completed with no problems; i can noclip outside the level and see all of it. the leak warning didn't crop up in qbsp until right at the very end.
using TreeQBSP v2.04. any ideas? :|
(typical this had to happen on the deadline for the contest)
What
#7577 posted by megaman [87.245.37.161] on 2008/06/15 17:38:47
does ogre_marksman do?
This Pretty Much Answers That One:
#7578 posted by rj [82.4.228.100] on 2008/06/15 17:49:19
void() monster_ogre_marksman =
{
monster_ogre ();
};
obviously something ID never got round to implementing
#7579 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.123] on 2008/06/15 17:51:17
rj: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... has a whole part just about leaks and eliminating them. Good luck!
megaman: It's no different from an ogre but can be used to have infighting.
#7580 posted by negke [82.83.26.255] on 2008/06/15 17:54:33
rj: Quite possibly portal(?)-related. Try changing the shape of the brush in question or delete/recreate it (so it's moved to be bottom of the .map file). Maybe running QBSP with -hull # might give a hint.
megaman: It's a regular Ogre minus the wakeup sound who can infight with monster_ogre. Isn't spawned in Quoth.
#7581 posted by rj [82.4.228.100] on 2008/06/15 18:23:34
spirit, negke, thanks
i've been reading that textfile. the '-hull 2' option didn't seem to give any extra info; the pointfile just seemed to shoot up the wall instead (which was still solid to player & rockets). i've yet to try some of the other params but the '-leak 0' caught my attention; seems too much of an easy fix to be true.. what drawbacks arise from using it?
Oh Oh!
#7582 posted by Mike Woodham [81.151.98.127] on 2008/06/15 18:39:52
BspEditor 0.95b:
File #1
7000+ brushes, .map file 70535 lines long, 3.542 meg, everything visible in editor.
File #2 - next saved version of #1
Added small number of brushes, .map file 70945 lines long, 3.564 meg, only 9 bruhes visible in editor, all Groups set to visible, Map Info says 9 brushes.
Any ideas?
No big deal as it was only about one hours work but I am curious.
Rj
#7583 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/06/15 19:49:12
I had a ton of leaks similar to the one your describing in omlabx. The ones where they pass through a solid wall.
As negke mentioned, change the brush shape a bit and see if that fixes it. It may in some cases, and sometimes it won't.
But I found out the best guaranteed method to eliminate a leak like that is to place a hollow box around the brush on the outside of the map, where the leak is. It doesn't have to be a big box either, just enough to cover the bad brush up.
Orl..
#7584 posted by rj [82.4.228.100] on 2008/06/16 01:38:10
cheers. managed to pinpoint it in the end by deliberately leaking another part of the map (so as to split hull 0 up & prevent the outsides from filling) then noclipping outside; turns out i could fall through the side wall and down into the level.. so built a bunch of brushes around it in a similar fashion to your suggestion and it seemed to work :-)
That
#7585 posted by ijed [190.20.114.38] on 2008/06/16 03:53:47
Tends to happen when the centre point of the brush (an X in worldcraft) is near the edge of the brush. Splitting it into two brushes can help when you don't want to change it's shape.
In other news I've been getting brushes that delete their own faces on compile - they generally retain a few but some go missing, just aren't drawn so the map leaks.
Seems to happen when using 45 degree angles that intersect with others, usually I have to bracket the offenders as in Orl's solution - but in a limited resources competition I don't want to have to do that if possible.
Preach
#7586 posted by ijed [190.20.112.78] on 2008/06/17 14:06:14
So that's where to look. Thanks.
Driver Issues And Hammer
#7587 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/06/22 20:32:43
I've discovered that I'm no longer able to select brushes from the 3D view in hammer 3.4, no clicks register in that window. The 2D windows work fine, except that it's a pain to pick out overlapping brushes like that.
The biggest thing I remember doing recently is installing the latest catalyst drivers (running on a mobility 9700). Is it possible that installing these could have broken hammer? Has anyone encountered a problem like this and have a fix? And why does the cart on goldrush keep flickering, the new drivers didn't fix that either...
That's
#7588 posted by ijed [190.20.121.202] on 2008/06/22 21:45:30
What sounds like a classic WC bug - go into options and turn off hardware acceleration in the 3d window options.
I'm guessing that you had it turned on before but your previous drivers didn't conflict.
Hopefully that'll sort it out.
Trigger_count And Bmodels
#7589 posted by Lardarse [62.30.157.25] on 2008/06/23 03:57:05
Can anyone explain to me why a trigger_count needs to have a brush model, when it seems to me that it could be a point entity? The QC specifies it as needing one in the QUAKED line, but the code associated with it doesn't explain why...
It Doesn't
#7590 posted by negke [82.82.191.231] on 2008/06/23 07:28:03
All triggers can be point entities as well.
Func_door Lighting
#7591 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/23 12:01:11
This may be fairly obvious but how do I get a func_door to light itself in the open position rather than the closed? I have a large door entity that I want to slide into the level but the default position places most of the entity in the void - therefore, it's mostly black when it slides into the level.
Build It In The Open Position
#7592 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2008/06/23 12:27:02
Then check the 'Start Open' spawnflag.
#7593 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/23 12:31:07
Damn it, I knew it would be something obvious. Thanks!
Negke
#7594 posted by Lardarse [62.30.157.25] on 2008/06/23 15:31:56
Sweet. Even more brushes left over now...
The Fixer
#7595 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2008/06/23 18:33:39
Yeah, it was the drivers, by going back to 5.x catalysts I managed to get clicking to work again. The option to disable hardware rendering has disappeared from 3.4, although if you uninstall your drivers then it does default to some kind of software rendering, where selecting things works again.
Drivers And Wc
#7596 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/06/24 17:38:20
I have the same problem and am forced to map without hardware accel, making the 3d view painfully slow on large maps. Visgroups help somewhat, but it can still be a pain.
Same For Me
#7597 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.89] on 2008/06/24 18:05:08
Half my problem with attempting to map on the laptop is dealing with the lack of hardware support, and the other problem is the interface is a pain. Oddly enough, Blender, a much more sophisticated and complex app than Radiant shows very little performance loss without the HW acceleration. The source of the problem could be what Bambuz pointed out some time ago that GTK is a slow api.
Custom Q3 Texture Packs
#7598 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/06/24 18:39:23
Are there any "definite quake 3 custom textures archive" sites out there where I could grab most of the decent publicly available / free to use custom texture and shader sets for quake3?
#7599 posted by Blitz [67.168.57.20] on 2008/06/25 11:37:24
http://fyad.org/uz3f
^ The Wadfather is the best one I can think of (shortened for ridiculously long URL)
UT3 - Adjusting Rooms
#7600 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/06/26 10:34:00
Lets assume you a substracted a room from the world, added some details and then proceeded to work on other areas of the map. Now, let's say we go back to the original room and decide that we need to add some variety to the wall textures and the obvious way to do this would be: reduce the height of the original substracted room brush, place a new substracted brush using the new texture right on top of the old resized room.
However, we end up with a problem: the new substracted room brush is going to "override" and erase any additive brush details that were placed in the top part of the old room. Since the old room now has lower height, these details now find themselves inside the new room brush which we added later, meaning that the brush "creation order" of the detail brushes precedes that of the new room brush, meaning the new room brush overrides/erases any such details.
What do I do?
You Use Static Meshes For Details And Leave Brushes The Hell Alone.
#7601 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2008/06/26 12:02:01
#7602 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/26 13:10:29
Right click on any brush and you can move it to the front or back of the list.
Or, use the geometry tools to split the brush in half using the (admittedly clunky) clipping tool. That leaves the ordering the same.
#7603 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/26 13:11:13
So in your case, select everything inside the room and moving it to "last" is probably going to work best.
Hmm
#7604 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2008/06/26 20:26:09
Yeh, what Willem said.
Tbh I found the way unreal uses brushes so much more tolerable once I found out you could vertex edit/order shift them, spent a good while assuming Uengine mappers all did some crazy level of layout planning before touching the editor ;p
3d Studio Max Tutorials
#7605 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/06/27 00:25:15
Are there any comprehensive 3d studio max tutorial sites which walk you through most important things, from the very beginniner topics to more advanced stuff and techniques?
Max
#7606 posted by ijed [190.20.78.22] on 2008/06/27 02:53:11
http://www.3dtotal.com/
Is a nice resource for tutorials and general stuff.
#7607 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/06/27 07:28:09
3ds max itself has a load of beginner tutorials which show how to use all the basic things like creating objects and applying modifiers, using the material editor and such.
Ut3 - Simple Mesh Manipulation
#7608 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/06/27 09:34:45
Assume you have a curved ramp like this one: http://utmapping.wikidot.com/local... Now, assume you want to bend it in the same way as when this same ramp is being used in Arsenal: so that it not only leads from one side to another, but also also goes upwards, still keeping the edges of both "start" and "end" nicely aligned.
I asked around and Hourences told me that UED has no way to do this directly and that since there are no prefab versions of this mesh bent the way I want, I would have to either 1) export from UED to max, edit mesh and reimport back into UED or 2) create my own mesh, texture it from scratch and import for use in UED.
Is this for real? Am I supposed to be have a modelling package like MAX and know how to use it if all I want is to simply slightly adjust an already existing mesh to suit my task? What about scaling meshes, do I also need a modelling package for this?
Yes.
#7609 posted by czg [213.132.100.2] on 2008/06/27 09:37:11
#7610 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/27 11:22:00
You can't bend or warp meshes in UnrealEd, no. You can scale them, flip them or rotate them but you can't actually modify the shape dynamically. Sorry!
#7611 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/06/27 11:23:16
As for scaling them - open the properties of the mesh once it's in the level and open the "Display" category. Fool around with the DrawScale and DrawScale3D fields. Putting negatives into those fields will flip the mesh along the appropriate axis.
Mapping Solo Vs Collaboration
#7612 posted by Jago [194.86.38.38] on 2008/06/30 15:37:08
Something I've been curious about:
Seeing as modern games require bigger and bigger time investments to release a map that is at the same level of quality (let alone higher) as the stock maps in the original game, how many people have turned to collaboration instead of doing everything solo from the ground up?
I am asking because, I started playing around with UT3 tech and although I see myself capable of designing the layout, the gameplay and doing *some* detailing and visual work, it is quite obvious to me that in order to make a map that can be comparable to the one found in stock UT3, I would have to either learn modelling in MAX/Maya as well as learn to texture said models (which would probably take at least several months of intense studying before I could *possibly* reach reasonable-looking results) or alternatively I could seek-out someone who already has this skillset and collaborate with said person to work on touching up the map.
I guess wanting to do everything by yourself is partly an ego thing, but is it really reasonable in the days of modern technology? Is it really worth it? Another question: if your resume has a lot of maps done in collaboration with someone, is this a good thing or a bad thing from an industry recruiter perspective? It could be seen as good, because it means you can work in a team environment, but it could also be seen as bad, because it may not be obvious which part of that work you were REALLY responcible for, making it harder to evaluate your own potential as an individual...
#7613 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/06/30 15:42:20
You can do it by yourself but the key would be to use the existing assets (meshes, materials, etc) in creative ways.
Maps are definitely not solo efforts around here. I touched pretty much every map in UT3 at one point or another and I'm pretty sure that's true of every level designer here who worked on it.
Now, a hobbyist LD at home who has all the time in the world can take a few months to crank out a level so it IS doable. It's just tougher. In companies with deadlines and milestones it's not really reasonable anymore.
Where To Start?
#7614 posted by k1ckstand [192.146.101.26] on 2008/07/01 18:49:14
Long time Quaker needing some advice how to get started with Quake 1 mapping. I've used BSP and Worldcraft ages ago, but have not kept up with the content creation scene since '98. Can anyone suggest a modern editor and/or tutorial site?
Thx.
Google "Quakeadapter"
#7615 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/02 00:50:53
Or "Quakeadapter" + "Worldcraft"
#7616 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/02 00:51:27
Mesh Sites
#7617 posted by Jago [194.86.38.38] on 2008/07/02 10:48:27
Are there any sites that have free textured meshes you can dl for use in UT3 maps, kind of like prefab sites?
Jago
#7618 posted by inertia [24.164.67.55] on 2008/07/02 10:58:36
illegalfreetexturedmeshesforut3tor...
Fuck
#7619 posted by inertia [24.164.67.55] on 2008/07/02 10:59:04
#7620 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/07/02 11:32:17
Why would free meshes be illegal?
Anyway ... Jago, I don't think so. Although that's not a bad idea for a site to start up though. Heh. I think the problem there is that it's a lot of work to create meshes with proper materials that look great so people probably aren't going to want to give them away for free.
What you might do is look for UT3 maps that have custom content in them that you like. Download those and (assuming they haven't been cooked) you might be able to use their custom meshes in your own levels.
#7621 posted by inertia [24.164.67.55] on 2008/07/02 11:40:03
Was a comment on the pro-DRM crowd here.
Pro-drm Crowd
#7622 posted by DaZ [80.41.167.33] on 2008/07/02 14:10:07
does one even exist? ;)
Www.3dcafe.com
#7623 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/02 15:18:23
Has free meshes of various types, but you'd have to convert them to whatever format UT3 uses and most are probably fridges or mobile phones.
.
#7624 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.245.68] on 2008/07/02 16:46:38
pro-DRM crowd
Don't be an idiot. CHOOSE NON-FUCKTARDERY.
Willem...
#7625 posted by Bal [83.204.131.40] on 2008/07/02 20:57:46
How legal or ethical would that be though? Sounds alot like stealing (as long as you don't have the authors authorisation).
#7626 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/07/02 21:27:39
If the readme for the level allows it, go for it. Otherwise contact the author and see if they're OK with it. Done.
Help Finding Wad(s)...
#7627 posted by sikkpin [24.127.70.27] on 2008/07/03 22:58:28
This isn't really a mapping problem but it's close enough to not warrant a new thread.
Does anyone know what wad(s) these textures belong to? (they are found in gmsp3 map)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103...
The window glass is from DKT.wad but I'm interested in the frame. Thanks, in advance.
Not Sure
#7628 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/07/03 23:57:13
but the window frame looks like it's from the 'middle evil' map.
Sikkpin:
#7629 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/07/04 00:02:50
i think they were custom-made for that level, but obviously were based on some existing artwork (window frame from middle evil, stained glass from original quake wads, etc.)
#7630 posted by spy [92.47.232.46] on 2008/07/04 06:47:35
--from glassman's readme--
Custom, almost entirely Undule's Gnosis pack converted to quake palette by myself;
http://www.planetunreal.com/undula...
Dumping Data From The Console
#7631 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/07/05 03:13:29
anyone know of a command for fitz or aguirre's quake to dump data from the console to a text file? I want to dump edicts data since it a. doesn't fit into the console buffer and b. is not fun to search manually.
Than
#7632 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.245.68] on 2008/07/05 04:26:49
Just run the game with -condebug (add it to your shortcut) and it should automatically log all console output to a file. Can't remember the file name or the location but I'm sure you'll find it!
Than
#7633 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.60] on 2008/07/05 05:16:45
A save game spot is nothing more than a report of the game state at a particular time, and fortunately it is done in ascii and not binary. Just quick save a spot, change that .sav file into a .txt one, and you are golden.
Frib
#7634 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/07/05 05:19:20
thanks. That worked a treat.
The file is called qconsole.log and appears in the directory the current progs is located in (e.g. ID1 or Quoth)
Than
#7635 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.60] on 2008/07/05 05:19:53
my bad, you are looking for the back text for the
console, then what I mentioned wont be very useful.
Although
#7636 posted by Preach [86.158.204.21] on 2008/07/05 12:55:28
If than is doing what I think he's doing (long output of an edicts command), then the savegame method would also work just as well : - )
Thats
#7637 posted by ijed [190.20.81.202] on 2008/07/05 21:50:28
Pretty useful.
Btw
#7638 posted by than [220.47.251.83] on 2008/07/06 11:26:18
the log file write was really damn slow in fitz when I called the edicts command. Took 5-10 seconds for quake to become responsive again. I guess the savegame method is faster :)
Licence Que
#7639 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/06 14:39:19
I was wondering how far the restrictions of licences are. Nowadays quake1 is far concerned free to play with, as with all the monsters in it.
But when I create a monster, which has properties that look close to the Quake3 world and is not suported licence free, can I still publish them?
This for the monster bones I created. And although there are lot of parts I had to recompile, it still asambles a monster of the Q3 world. Therefore I am not licenced to publish it.
Not that I want to light up this licence war again, I just want to be sure before I publish a map with it, and get backed off again because I had to know this fact.
Id
#7640 posted by ijed [190.20.106.143] on 2008/07/06 17:38:03
Aren't going to sue you for making retro-Bones.
Alot of their tactics are set up so that a community like this could exist.
Looking forward to the map.
So
#7641 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/07 20:03:44
the bones won't be licenced...
before I realy get crazy from its carving cry!
Ut3 Jumppad Problem
#7642 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/07/12 01:29:35
I am following this tutorial here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ip... precisely, to the letter, but somehow the thing refuses to work. The jumppad does appear in the game and does emit an ambient hum sound, but it doesn't actually launch me in the air even tho it's linked to a PathNode.
What could I be doing wrong?
#7643 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/07/12 11:46:31
It could be you are trying to launch yourself too high and the engine can't create a good path. In the editor, turn on paths (hit 'P') and select the jump pad. That will draw the jump arc in the editor. If nothing appears, try lowering the strength of the jump pad and see if it works better.
I had a bitch of a time getting the pads in DM-BioHazard to work because of this.
Another Lazy Question...
#7644 posted by sikkpin [24.127.70.27] on 2008/07/14 20:28:55
What has changed in modern qbsp utilities that keeps the polys on the backside(facing the void) of sky brushes from being removed and merging with the surrounding geometry? For example, all id, hip, rogue and even some levels made in '96 - '97 sky brushes behave like normal brushes. Have they become an entity now?
I'm assuming here that it's something with the bsp process.
Here are screenshots to compare:
id's start.bsp
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123...
e1m2quoth.bsp
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123...
Sidenote: Regarding the wad(s) I asked about earlier, the window frame is from chicosruin set. For anyone who was losing sleep over it...
#7645 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/07/14 20:32:08
I think I remember reading that id's QBSP had a bug that make projectiles explode on sky brushes or something. They fixed it before releasing the tools to the community.
#7646 posted by sikkpin [24.127.70.27] on 2008/07/14 20:43:20
That's it. Much appreciated.
Anyone
#7647 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/15 03:46:57
knows the parameter for qcc.exe to recompile a progs.dat back to its origin?
Found It
#7648 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/15 04:16:37
-dec
Fefefefe
#7649 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/18 22:52:32
[URL="http://i258.photobucket... what it looks like in the editor[/URL]
Looks just as I want it to, except for the fact the brush on the left is missing the ceiling as you may be able to see...
[URL="http://i258.photobucket... what it looks like in game[/URL]
A complete mess.
What am I doing wrong?
Oops
#7650 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/18 22:53:59
I guess this forum uses hyperlinks differently. Here are the urls again...
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums...
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums...
Hm
#7651 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/18 23:00:56
Not too clear from the editor shot, but I'd suspect that there's some sort of brush interference there.
Those two six-sided shapes, try cutting them into wedges in the top view.
It also looks like you've got concave brushes at the top of the top view, if so then change those to wedges as well.
I mean keep the same shape, but made out of more (but simpler) brushes.
#7652 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/18 23:04:02
So instead of clipping a single brush multiple times, If I split the brush into different brushes where each new vert starts, it will render properly?
I always answer my own questions 5 minutes after posting.
#7653 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/18 23:05:31
My last reply was before I saw yours ijed, I'll give it a shot.
Leaks
#7654 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/20 08:02:30
Hm.. I don't want to start spamming this board, but I have a leak right now, and I just can't figure out where it is.
I loaded the pointfile and it does not lead you to a hole and does not enter the playing area.
I've spent the last half hour examining the area it seems to vaguely point to, but I really can't see anything either in the editor or the game.
Any ideas?
If you wish to do so, feel free to have a look at the .map file:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/4b150975...
Your Map
#7655 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/07/20 08:37:47
crashed my editor. :P
Kamikaze
#7656 posted by Kell [80.192.82.197] on 2008/07/20 10:32:14
Odd.
Absolutely nothing shows up in Radiant when I open your map. I opened it in Q3 mode too, just in case you were editing it in q3 .map format. Still nothing there.
Then I tried compiling it. Compiled fine, apart from the missing texture wads on my machine ( so I modified the worldspawn info so some of the textures would show up ).
There was no leak.
It's such a small and orthogonally constructed volume that I can't see why there'd be a leak or similar error. At least, not one that you'd have any trouble finding.
I suspect something else may be causing problems. But the only thing I can see that looks at all odd is that you specify the wads to be .hlwad format. Is this a worldcraft thing? Are you using half-life compilers or what?
Looks nice btw.
Yes
#7657 posted by negke [82.83.62.31] on 2008/07/20 10:45:48
It's related to the compiler tools. Use aguirRe's instead.
Kamikeze
#7658 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/20 23:06:36
Good map, no leak.
Aguire
Txbsp1.2
Vis2.30
Light1.41
#7659 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/21 07:00:27
The best I could find via google was this page:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
..And I unzipped some of the files there and overwritten anything that was in the 'quaketools' folder and changed to the just downloaded build tools, but the same thing happens. No vising performed.
I'm using Worldcraft 3.3 with the Quake Adaptor thing. After build, I run the map through WinQuake.
Yes, That's The Right One
#7660 posted by negke [82.82.170.50] on 2008/07/21 08:12:14
Are you using a batch file to compile the map? If so, make sure it links to the right Qbsp - or rename txqbsp.exe to qbsp.exe. Check the compile window or log file for information on which one was used.
#7661 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/21 10:43:05
I am confused beyond words.
When I compile using BspInfo 1.27, I get nothing about leaks, except I get the following error under vis:
"File: c:\games\quake\id1\maps\map1.bsp
LoadPortals: couldn't read c:\games\quake\id1\maps\map1.prt
No vising performed."
There is a map1.pts in that folder, but no .prt file.
Also, with this BSP a lot of the edges of brushes are out of whack.
When I use TreeQBSP v2.05, I get a whole lot of errors:
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-248 576 160)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-132 584 -32)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-240 538 -32)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-132 584 -192)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-224 560 -320)
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (-224 560 -448)
---- FillOutside ----
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (-192 640 -128), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to c:\games\quake\id1\maps\map1.pts
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (-704 960 256), light
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (-704 960 256), light
Tools used were:
TreeQBSP v2.05---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
and
BspInfo 1.27 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
P.S. It does not help my complete confusion that c:\program files is really restricted in Vista. Quake Adapter insists that worldcraft be in that folder whereas I would have normally put it in the c:\program files (x86) where all non-microsoft software goes. It makes me wonder if the tools aren't going correctly because of some Vista restriction coming as a result of the program files folder.
Kamikazee
#7662 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.123.230] on 2008/07/21 11:10:53
Bspinfo is NOT A COMPILING TOOL.
(It just tells you the "stats" about a .bsp file)
Use "TXQbsp".
THATS "tee-ex-cue-bee-ess-pee"...
Its the best one!!! It's on the site you linked to before.
(groan)
Just make a folder on your c: called "quaketools". Put your tools DIRECTLY IN THAT FOLDER. Put your .map file (not your rmf file)(make sure it's the correct map file)(open your rmf file, and click on file-"export to map", and save it in "c:\quaketools")
Then click start-programs-accessories-"c... prompt"
Then type "cd c:\quaketools" [enter]
Then type "txqbsp mapname"
Work?!!??!
OK - Let Me Just Re-itterate Some Points That Func_msgboard Has
#7663 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.123.230] on 2008/07/21 11:18:48
missed off because of the long text string thing
"start-programs-accessories- command prompt"
#7664 posted by spy [92.47.240.94] on 2008/07/21 15:39:31
>*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (-192 640 -128), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to c:\games\quake\id1\maps\map1.pts
you got the leak
find and fix it (seal it)
The Map Does Not Leak
#7665 posted by negke [82.82.180.41] on 2008/07/21 16:54:13
And TreeQBSP 2.05 bjp compiles it fine for me without any portal warnings. Are you sure you're trying to compile the same map (version) that you uploaded?
Sigh
#7666 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/22 09:39:53
You are all going to find this very funny. But right now I'm about to kill something.
The reason none of you found any leaks or errors in the map you downloaded is because there are none. Somehow I managed to upload one of the earlier versions of the map where it has only one room.
If I had uploaded the correct map file, you would have seen the start room with two large lava rooms outside that room. I really spent several hours of work on it not to mention the several hours of head scratching trying to find leaks and messing with the build tools.
It doesn't end there. When I tried out RickyT23's suggestion, I found that it didn't work with the map file I had on the hard drive. But I came up with the idea of deleting all traces of the map on my hard drive (no big deal because not much more work was done on it compared to the one I uploaded online.. or at least that was what I thought), and so then I downloaded the .map online and opened in Worldcraft, to my horror it was just the start room.
It doesn't end there either, because I know some of you reading this right now will be about to reply saying 'just restore the deleted files from the recycle bin'... Well to be doubly sure that there were no traces of the map on my hard drive, I emptied the recycle bin.
I really don't know how I managed to upload an earlier .map file rather than a current one. Perhaps because worldcraft seems to want to place the .map file in at least two different directories? Or perhaps because when you click save, it saves to the RMF only?
Oh well, back to square one I guess.
#7667 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.2] on 2008/07/22 10:17:15
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... has a long and detailed writing how to find and try to eliminate leaks.
#7668 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/22 10:43:25
"If the line stays completely
outside the map, there is probably an entity left on the outside, typically a light."
That's was it then.
Thats Crap :(
#7669 posted by DaZ [80.41.165.63] on 2008/07/22 16:36:32
But usually when shit like this happens, and you go back and rebuild it for the 2nd time it always turns out better :)
A Habit I Picked Up...
#7670 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/07/22 18:49:43
start using svn. :P
tortoise svn is a really easy one to use, if you have the extra disk space to spare.
I Use
#7671 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/22 19:09:02
it at work, and its great. Kind of miss it when I'm at home working on Quake.
Ow, That Sucks
#7672 posted by negke [82.82.173.22] on 2008/07/22 19:57:54
Maybe some unerase tool for Vista can restore it.
There Is A Very Good Chance
#7673 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.2] on 2008/07/22 20:18:43
you might be able to restore it with this nice freeware tool
http://www.pcinspector.de/Sites/fi...
Spirit
#7674 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/22 23:18:11
Couldn't undelete it.
There was an RMF file that wouldn't open in worldcraft but no .map files even though I deleted about 5 of them yesterday.
Downloads
#7675 posted by Laurie [208.124.145.182] on 2008/07/25 15:24:03
Hi i kinda want to try my hand at mapping. a friend of mine was telling me about a lighting program called q1rad but I cant seem to find a download link for it. Does anyone know where i can find it??
Thx.
Q1rad
#7676 posted by Spirit [213.39.169.54] on 2008/07/25 15:54:40
q1rad is way too complicated for a starter. Use the tools from http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ instead:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/vis...
Thanks
#7677 posted by Laurie [208.124.145.182] on 2008/07/25 16:23:04
I'll try those. still ive seen q1rad in action and it looks real nice. I would sure like to try it.
I have another question: where can I find out how to go about setting up GTKRadient for use with quake? Or should i just try a different editor? I understand you need to adjust some settings. also the .map file needs to be altered before compiling it. true? how?
Also is there a good texture resource on the net? where?
sorry for the newbie questions. I have a friend who was into mapping awhile back, however he is a bit vague on the details... and google seems to be failing me.
What Is I About Q1Rad Which You Liked So Much?
#7678 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.123.230] on 2008/07/25 17:04:15
I personally thing that there are two light tools which are any good. The best is AguirRe's "light.exe" - a heavily modified/improved version of IdSoftware's light tool for the original Quake, which gives a wonderfull finish, and there's no real beating it.
The other is Tyrlite. Which doesn't give as good of a finish IMHO, but supports coloured lighting. Both light tools support spotlighting and sky lighting, as well as min(imum)light, and the ability to use the "wait" key to control falloff.
I recal finding Q1Rad at one point and being frustrated with it.
#7679 posted by Spirit [213.39.169.54] on 2008/07/25 17:16:56
http://icculus.org/~riot/q1rad.zip
You can find textures here, you'll need to guess the contents and looks though:
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Q1rad
#7680 posted by DaZ [80.41.133.218] on 2008/07/25 18:39:34
is actually quite easy to use as long as you setup the texture lights file correctly.
you create a <texturewadname>.rad file in the same location as q1rad.exe and you can add light and colour values to textures, so you dont actually need to place any light entities in the map at all.
If you are interested in the effect this can give, I used q1rad on my map "crdm2 - mechanical tears" http://daz.quaddicted.com/maps.htm...
You need to be a bit careful with light placements though or the final effect can be quite flat and dull as the lights bounce off surfaces. Tbh I feel that tyrlite.exe or Arguires improved light.exe are superior in quality as you get more contrast between light and dark, but it takes a more experienced hand to get better effects.
On The Subject Of Light Tools
#7681 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.66.7] on 2008/07/26 02:33:54
When a face is receiving light from 2 light entities with the 'no fall off' option tagged, it appears that the light stacks. What I mean is if both light entities are 200 brightness, if they both hit the same face, it's as if that face's brightness becomes 400.
Is there any way around that or do you just have to try and avoid them hitting the same face?
KamiKaze
#7682 posted by ijed [190.20.99.43] on 2008/07/26 05:41:42
What you say in the second part of your post is the solution, basically, unless you want the flat white effect.
Having said that, read up on AguirRe's documents (also on his site) since there's alot of extra control added through using the delay and wait keys on a light, including antilights, wide range falloff and spotlights without info_notnulls (or nulls?).
FYI Tyrlite is the alternative, supporting coloured light, although it's a bit trial and error.
Looking forward to your map.
Light Tools
#7683 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.162.51] on 2008/07/27 06:42:01
I would also say that Q1Rad is actually easier for a beginner to handle. You don't even need to set up the lights.rad file if you don't want surface lighting (it is, after all, optional).
Aguire's tool has many features, offers a high level of control and has a smoother "finish" as Ricky suggested (reduces the staircasing on shadow edges and stuff like that). It has almost everything you need and should definitely be your default choice.
Having said that, Q1Rad obviously does one thing that no other tool can offer: radiosity, which is certainly not to be underestimated! It does have less features though (some things just plain don't work as well, e.g. switchable lights... and it crashes on very large maps).
Heh
#7684 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.212] on 2008/07/27 09:14:03
I feel very stupid now, because I had so much trouble getting q1rad to work when I once tried it.
Its The Same Idea As The Light Tool
#7685 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/27 14:34:23
for HL1 isnt it?
Yeah
#7686 posted by megaman [92.72.10.143] on 2008/07/29 15:09:11
coming from the q3map2 background, a light compiler without radiosity just feels plain stupid to work with.
It's annoying that q1rad makes faces that emit light fullbright though :/
^^
#7687 posted by DaZ [80.41.133.218] on 2008/07/29 16:25:15
Yeah that is a shame, and does limit its use somewhat.
Now I may just be talking out of my arse here, but wasn't there a hack or program that would read your texture lights file but light the map with a "standard" light util like tyrlite?
I forget...
Episode Bosses
#7688 posted by gb [89.27.226.178] on 2008/07/29 17:52:40
What are some Q1 mods with cool episode bosses in the medieval style?
I was thinking Vermis, but would like an alternative... I guess one would be those ghast things from Rogue...
any tips?
Daz
#7689 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/29 19:14:12
Wasn't that ArghRad for Q2?
gb - don't forget the Dragons.
Gb
#7690 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/29 21:07:09
the NewBoss from DeathmatchMaker.
Example
#7691 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/29 21:10:23
you could try PhantomPholly, I put it in there.
I never saw it in a mod so I tried to mae it look convincing.
Not sure if you think it's cool.
#7692 posted by gb [89.27.226.178] on 2008/07/29 22:03:42
Madfox: Thanks for the tip, I'll look at it.
Ijed: The dragon from Rogue? It's a bit static... flies around and tosses some projectiles...
perhaps if I have six or eight flying above the moat... but I want to have the boss fight indoors.
Use of svn: This is widely used in the open source community, even in small projects. It's practically standard.
I suggested something like this back when the map sources were released, to put them in a svn repository and gradually improve them in a controlled way.
That was before it became obvious that it's better to rebuild them.
Still, svn is definitely useful and I wonder why the Quake community seems to ignore it. Many open source projects are hosted on sourceforge.net, using svn. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to have a Quake map on there just as well as any other software.
I guess nobody tried it yet.
Also, most people don't like to look at maps as software. They are though, technically.
Theoretically, a community svn repository could be hosted on a site like Shub-Hub, too. Much like a miniature version of sourceforge.net. Such a central repo would be very vulnerable to attacks though.
Thinking out loud, as always.
And
#7693 posted by gb [89.27.226.178] on 2008/07/29 23:13:11
the general public can follow every single commit (via "browse svn" at sourceforge) and thus, even during a time without map releases, it's always visible that things are progressing.
People can watch the progress and read the comments. Work in progress would become more visible (and the "Quake is dying" thing would tone down because you can always say "there have been X commits last month so stfu".)
svn can be pretty transparent to the public. It's good for everybody.
Wait...
#7694 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/30 01:25:43
flies around and tosses some projectiles...
I succeeded to compile it out of the SOA mod and yet it has become a quite powerfull dragon.
It can flie around but also attacks you with a rather tacky advancement, becoming a monster Chtong could compare with.
Sets your heals on fire and traces you down to the slightest hideaways.
Sounds Awesome@@
#7695 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/30 02:58:36
gimme gimme gimme
The Dragons From Soe(by Tronyn)
#7696 posted by spy [92.46.17.55] on 2008/07/30 10:10:06
Dragon Fro Rogue
#7697 posted by Hrimfaxi [90.184.42.229] on 2008/07/30 12:18:40
Look in Necros ne_sp06 - Once upon Atrocity
annd my own hrimsp1 - Frying obstacles.
2 UT3 Questions
#7698 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/07/30 14:33:45
How does one:
1) Select all static meshes within the "red building box"?
2) Copy/Paste all selected meshes from one map into another?
Hmm
#7699 posted by DaZ [80.41.133.218] on 2008/07/30 18:00:01
can you not filter out everything else and then do a select all? Just a thought as I dont have the editor in front of me right now...
Just Something To Keep In Mind:
#7700 posted by necros [206.186.24.146] on 2008/07/30 21:37:12
at the time i made it, i hadn't understood how quake collision hulls worked, so i just made the dragon move like a normal monster, which means he clips into geometry a *lot*.
it would be worth coding some kind of method of navigating via nodes or make extra large bbox collision code.
or build some kind of clipped off area that the dragon can fly in, but that's more limiting because the player will collide into it as well.
it just occured to me that it would be cool to be able to make clip brushes that only affect certain hulls..... that's a compiler thing though. :S
#7701 posted by negke [82.82.191.76] on 2008/07/30 21:42:22
Or func_monsterclip for problem cases.
8-) Yeah
#7702 posted by Hrimfaxi [90.184.42.229] on 2008/07/30 22:25:31
I had a lot of trouble getting that stupid dragon to stay out of the geometry myself!!!
I'm using the dragon once again in a upcomming map. The map is done I just need to finish of the QC code.
Dragon
#7703 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/07/30 23:05:49
now we're on the subject I'm thinking to open a new toppic about monsters, as I almost seem to like it even more than mapping.
And I see more new maps then new monsters.
I tried to get a hold on the dragon, with some help of preach. I wanted it to function normal as any other entity monster. So I can give it path_corners and all.
I got stuck with the spellmaster.qc so I decide to make my own. This dragon has not only a firenball but also a thunderbolt.
I would like to give it a flame breach but sofar I haven't come.
The frames are rather strange grouped, other than in DOE, but I added some death frames.
It might be hard to kill as the health parameter is 2000, this for the fact it would be an end boss.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/drago...
I would like to hear your reactions, as I was interested in it the first moment I saw it in DOE.
Dragons
#7704 posted by gb [89.27.201.104] on 2008/07/31 03:19:02
Hrimfaxi, thanks for the tips!
I played with this mod for a while:
http://shub-hub.com/idgames2/quake...
and I think it is unbelievable. Those dragons circling in the sky and your dragon familiar fighting other dragons in the air, it looks like something from Star Wars... incredible feeling. Several kinds of dragons.
It uses the QTest dragon though, and it's more a regular monster than a boss.
Necros, played that map, have to say very nice! But I feel the dragon is a bit radical for my needs. (HP and attack) You really tried to make it into a boss monster, which was successful (be quick when switching to God mode/picking up the pent). Personally I'd want dragons a bit weaker and kinda circling over the battlefield, and then an indoor boss.
Madfox, newboss: you mean the red snake like thing that comes out of lava? It would perhaps need a better skin... the shape looks ok.
Now on to playing the other maps.
Madfox' Dragon:
#7705 posted by gb [89.27.201.104] on 2008/07/31 04:29:42
It's cool, although it moves totally differently from the above mentioned dragons. It kinda floats upright, and it's more worm shaped (rogue) versus more crocodile shaped (qtest).
The upright position makes it look special. It is rather helpless once you get behind it, I think it would need to turn faster and have a bite or tail swipe attack.
Since it has paws, unlike the qtest dragon, I could also imagine it walking on the ground, like the dragon in Tomb Raider 2, only taking off when hurt (or not at all.) In that case, it should be slow and have a ton of HP. Although even with a small dragon like this, a rocket to the face should make some impression... its HP are rather high. The above mentioned dragon takes 5 rockets to kill, in comparison. So it's tempting to use in packs (and it looks cool when they infight.)
The rogue skin is better than the qtest one, although with the detailed skin and unusual movement, it looks distinctly Quoth.
The qtest one looks like just another monster, which isn't bad if you think about it, if you know what I mean. Once you killed it 200 times, the skin isn't so important anymore. :-)
#7706 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/07/31 14:26:10
fuck how do i put the Zombie to start in the floor laydown?
Qc
#7707 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/07/31 15:07:55
Search in id for ZOMBIES! by Ace_Dave
Just Guessing Here But...
#7708 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.123.230] on 2008/07/31 16:17:38
I think you have to set a targetname for the zombie, then target it with a trigger.
I was looking at the map source for E1M3 and there are zombies which target other zombies, zombies targetted by triggers and some with spawnflags 256. That seems to be it! 256 is a "not in whatever skill" isn't it?
#7709 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/07/31 16:26:58
nop... dont work :(
Doesn't Work In Id1
#7710 posted by negke [82.82.189.233] on 2008/07/31 16:58:08
Unless you want them for decoration only. Then you can turn a crucified zombies with "angles" "# # #" or use the modelindex hack for its death frame.
#7711 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/07/31 17:14:18
it can be decoracion... but what is value? i try many...
angles" "# # #"????
Sleeping Zombies
#7712 posted by spy [92.47.252.83] on 2008/07/31 18:18:05
spawnfalgs 1(2?)
doesn't work in the regular id progs
'work' in the soa , doe & zer(i guess)
Id
#7713 posted by necros [206.186.24.146] on 2008/07/31 21:25:20
never had sleeping zombies. they would just push a zombie up from the ground with a func_door.
No .pts File
#7714 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/07/31 21:50:34
Alright, so since TxQbsp keeps giving me a bogus error of "subdivideface: didn't split the polygon" when I know for a fact I don't have any textures below 0.20 scale, I tried to compile this map I have with TyrQbsp. Surprising enough, it worked with no problems.
Well, almost no problems. The log clearly says the map is leaking "Reached occupant" but when I load it up in an engine and type in "pointfile" it says a .pts file doesn't exist.
Where is tyrqbsp placing the .pts file?
#7715 posted by negke [82.83.7.241] on 2008/07/31 23:03:12
Trinca: try "-90 0 0" for face down and "90 0 0" for lying on its back. The middle number rotates the zombie horizontally iirc. Play around with these values and you'll see.
Orl: Check the faces at the given coordinates. If the texture is only 32*32 or below, a scale of 0.2 might be too small already.
Tyrqbsp doesn't place the pts file anywhere different. Can't remember what the trick was to get it to create pts/prt in such a situation.
Negke
#7716 posted by Orl [68.38.78.49] on 2008/07/31 23:33:57
Well, heres the situation. The texture that is scaled small is 272 by 224. Now when I applied this texture to certain objects at a scale of 0.20, Txqbsp was fine. But after I made more of the same objects, with the texture scaled to 0.40, txqbsp spits out that error.
This doesn't make sense to me. That and why tyrqbsp isn't giving me a leak output.
#7717 posted by RickyT23 [90.199.193.191] on 2008/07/31 23:50:38
The texture that is scaled small is 272 by 224.
I recon that this could be the problem. If you place the texture on a 512x512 canvas that might solve the problem.....
Sideways Hack
#7718 posted by ijed [190.20.108.242] on 2008/08/01 02:06:58
As an aside, rotating things by pitch yaw roll as negke describes can be applied to teleport_destinations if you want a player to be drunk after a teleport.
Probably better in the old progs thread.
#7719 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/08/01 15:49:27
thks negke but i cant put the way i want... :|
guess is not possible in id1
Orl
#7720 posted by negke [82.82.166.11] on 2008/08/02 09:50:26
That's an odd scale for a texture, but since it's a multple of 8, it should work.
Maybe try to seal off parts of the map with large boxes and see if the supposed leak become visible then. Or create an artificial leak?
Trinca: ¬_¬
Water Splashes In UT3
#7721 posted by Jago [88.195.214.20] on 2008/08/08 14:35:45
Does anyone have any idea how to make the water make visual splashes when you jump into it in UT3? I have a working UTWaterZone and it makes a proper splashy sound when I enter it, I also have a sheet-brush with the water texture, but quite obviously since they are separate entities, entering the UTWaterZone does nothing to the sheet-brush surface.
How do I make a visual splash effect?
A Simple Tip
#7722 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.100] on 2008/08/09 18:58:06
A new Dark Places build is out today. When the new builds come out, I like to check them out with the Quake 3 arena maps to see if any improvements have been made in the shader rendering, as each build does tend to improve them.
If you want to see how DP works with these maps, simply download the Dark Places executable into your Quake 3 Arena directory, create a short cut, write in the short cut parameters '-game baseq3. You will also need to transfer Id1 from your Quake directory to the Q3Arena directory.
When you load the DP executable be sure to go into multiplayer mode so, info_player_deathmatch is the default loading entity. At this point you can check out any of the maps in your BaseQ3 directory with shaders intact.
cheers
Bsp2prt
#7723 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/09 19:17:18
is there an updated version of this? when i feed a map into it, it doesn't generate the prt file. :(
Necros
#7724 posted by negke [82.82.169.77] on 2008/08/09 22:02:03
aguirRe's Bspinfo tool
?
#7725 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/10 00:25:14
what's that?
Oh
#7726 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/10 00:26:11
i just noticed it's bundled with the other 3 tools. :P
Triple Post
#7727 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/10 00:29:10
...and it works. thanks, neg. :)
HeadThump
#7728 posted by Mr Fribbles [121.44.227.234] on 2008/08/10 03:00:04
Thanks for the tip (seriously, that's pretty clever).
Personally though, I find that quake3.exe does a remarkably good job of running the Q3 bsp files... ;)
Thanks Mr Fribbles
#7729 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.141] on 2008/08/10 09:39:09
I agree, it is still my favorite engine to fart around with the game code, even though my coding skills are meager.
One Thing I've Noticed
#7730 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.141] on 2008/08/10 10:16:15
while doing this, the sdl version I tend to use anyway works fine whereas the DirectX (DP just uses as a wrapper)
version crashes.
Jago
#7731 posted by Scampie [24.158.1.74] on 2008/08/10 11:21:20
The default UTWaterVolume should automatically create a splash effect when it's touched by bullets and pawns.
Very possible your water sheet is colliding with things, I recommend using a static mesh as your plane (should be reletively easy to find one in a package somewhere. Or to create your own), and set it to have no collision.
I Has A QuakeC Question
#7732 posted by Lunaran [97.87.13.222] on 2008/08/11 07:18:09
Let's say I set all players, and all monsters, to have the same .owner, presumably an info_notnull or something innocuous - will this interfere with collision? No players own any monsters or vice versa, it's all through the notnull, so everyone should be fine to bump uglies, right?
Um, don't ask what it's for. ¬_¬
Correct
#7733 posted by Preach [81.153.28.139] on 2008/08/11 11:42:28
Yeah, there's no inheritance of "noclipness" between entities with the same owner. I think this might break the last post in the New Tricks thread, and I meant to post something about that. The only other thing you'd have to worry about is that any of them had an owner before, but in regular qc neither player nor monster does.
Updating Entities Without Map File
#7734 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/15 22:02:57
i extracted the entities from a bsp with
bspinfo -copyents
but i can't seem to find a way to re-inject them with either qbsp or bspinfo (both aguire's tools)
does anyone know if it's possible?
Try Adquedit
#7735 posted by Preach [217.44.86.125] on 2008/08/15 23:37:38
Adquedit is capable of importing an ent file and baking it into a bsp file. I expect there is a way to do it with the normal tools to, but I can't remember it.
Adquedit?
#7736 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/16 00:04:17
only asking because i don't have it currently and i'd have to search for it;
will adquedit mess up the switchable lights? older qbsp compilers used to do that when you'd do -onlyents and afaik, adquedit hasn't been updated in ages and i was wondering if it will do the same thing.
.ent Files
#7737 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/08/16 10:02:26
The usual way is $BSP -onlyents
I kow it works with hmap2, I haven't tried with any others. You will possibly want to do the light stage again as well, as it sounds like you are adjusting them.
Speaking of light: what's the recommended program to use these days?
Nah
#7738 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/16 10:05:13
lighting is finished. old qbsp programs used to mess up switchable lights when you did a -onlyents pass.
i checked aguire's new qbsp and as i should have known, he fixed that problem. :) unfortunately, i don't think i will be able to use the .map file with the .bsp anyway, so i'll look into adquedit.
thanks anyway, guys.
Necros
#7739 posted by negke [82.83.43.177] on 2008/08/16 10:18:04
aguirRe's light tool has -onlyents too. This way you can fix switchable lights after a qbsp -onlyents compile.
Clipnodes
#7740 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/08/16 21:34:50
There's a link for Adquedit at QuakeTerminus...
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Console Warning: map has to many clipnodes - (31456 should be normal, 32456 exceeded the limit)
Does this mean I used to many polygons?
Thanks Madfox
#7741 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/16 22:05:23
also: clipnodes is basically how much solid collision geometry you have.
i'm pretty sure you can fix this by covering any areas where the player can't walk with giant clip brushes. this will reduce the collision data, iirc.
Append:
#7742 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/16 22:06:27
even just filling in troughs and small alcove with a flat clip helps. like if you have a recessed trim 32 units wide in the floor where the player can't go in to, just fill it up with clip brushes to bring it flush with the surrounding floor.
Still Waiting For An Answer To My Question
#7743 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/08/17 09:22:03
Lardarse
#7744 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.4] on 2008/08/17 09:59:54
aguirRe's http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Madfox
#7745 posted by DaZ [80.41.180.97] on 2008/08/17 12:02:42
I had that error recently on my idbase map, it was because the map was not sealed.
Clipnodes
#7746 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/08/17 20:10:14
the map has an enormous part of brushes with the shape as if they were treated with convertmap.
First I had the lightmap error too, but as long as I keep fitting the polygons to eachother this error dissapeared.
It has become 8.5Mb, and I'm trying to keep it playable in the normal engines.
#7747 posted by negke [82.83.31.220] on 2008/08/17 20:15:17
Exceeding the clipnodes limit only slightly doesn't cause any problems with regular engines.
Well
#7748 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/17 21:59:06
it does, but you may not notice it.
from what i can tell, when you exceed the clipnode limit, parts of solid geometry stop being solid.
i guess it's whatever is processed last, so everything the engine reads after it hits the limit isn't solid or something like that (i doubt it's this straight forward. it's a 'node' after all, so it's probably not just a straight 1 to 1 with faces and clipnodes).
this can be fine (areas that you never go to, so doesn't matter if they are solid or not) and it can suck the big one (giant sections of floor are nonsolid and you fall into the void). :P
i think you are thinking of marksurfaces. from what i saw, marksurfaces can sometimes be over the limit and sometimes it will be fine. the chance of it crashing increases the higher you go over the limit though.
Noobie To Quake Mapping
#7749 posted by Andy3012 [86.162.200.176] on 2008/08/18 22:15:10
Hi everybody, after countless efforts of trying to create high quality maps (mostly performance wise) for Half Life 2 and other Source Mods, i have decided that being unexperienced with mapping i should probably work with something a little more basic (too many triggers / entities / functions to deal with)
Quake 1 has always been my favourite FPS because of the architecture and the way the maps seem, and thats why i have chosen it. And since i am used to Hammer editor i decided to go with World Craft. Unfourtunately i found 1.6a to be a pain in the arse, and tried version 3 (courtesy of a link on these forums) with the Quake tools supplied. However i seem to have problems in terms of publishing or even testing the maps (it will not convert to BSP and has tonnes of errors). This is the same with 1.6 version aswell.
So i downloaded QuARK, however that program seems really complicated to me and i just cant seem to get to grips with it (i've been trying for a few days now). What i do right now is, map in version 3 of WC, then save as .map and open it in version 1.6 then i export it to .map and am able to open it in Quark for testing and saving. Though this method sucks because all of the textures get misaligned. And i cannot get to grips with using either quark or 1.6.
So what i was wandering is, are there any known issues with version 3 hammer with Vista? Because to be totally honest thats the only thing i can think of considering i've installed everything to the correct directories and havn't changed any configs.
Oh and the messages i am getting are just Path files that can't be found, yet i have checked and they all appear to be in check, plus it doesn't make it clear exactly as to what it is looking for.
I'd be greatful for any help with setting this up thanks
When You Have Made Your Map
#7750 posted by RickyT23 [90.217.64.245] on 2008/08/19 00:09:23
First make a folder on your c: called qtools or something.
Then
in Worldcraft 3.3, click:
File=>Export to .Map=>
Save as "c:\qtools\MAPNAME.MAP"
Then
Go into c:\programfiles\worldcraft\quaketo...
and copy txqbsp.exe, light.exe, vis.exe and nomapversion.exe (not essential) into c:\qtools
Then
Go into start=>programs=>accessories... prompt
then type "cd c:\qtools\" (no quotes)
then type "nomapversion MAPNAME" (not essential)
then type "txqbsp MAPNAME"
this should run and create the .bsp file in c:\qtools as well as pts files and prt files whether the map leaks or not.
then you run vis "vis MAPNAME"
then light in the same way
put all of the resulting files (or just the bsp file it it doesnt leak) in c:\quake\id1\maps\
then run from the Quake console "map MAPNAME"
In WC3.3 i save all files in c:\quake\id1\maps also all of the tools are in this directory and if you got to Worldcraft options menu I have all the tools se up to run from there.
The long winded process I have just told you to do is what Worldcraft does automatically when you have it set up properly. Just make sure all files and tools are in c:\quake\id1\maps and you cant go wrong.
Fuck
#7751 posted by RickyT23 [90.217.64.245] on 2008/08/19 00:12:15
where you see ... in the post above:
1st time "quaktools"
2nd time "command prompt"
Paths, Hammer, And You
#7752 posted by Preach [86.153.45.117] on 2008/08/19 00:13:41
My general recommendation for people starting out mapping would be to use the compile tools in the command line until you can get them to work. Although the batch stuff in hammer is nice once it works, it adds an extra layer of things that can be going wrong. So export the .map from hammer and type "cmd" in the run dialogue, then see if you can make the map compile like that.
I do have one Hammer specific suggestion though if you're having trouble with paths. Is Hammer installed to your c:\ drive, and are all the .wad/.map files on that same drive? Hammer has some issues with being on a second hard disk if I remember right. This may be fixed with the 3.5 version, but of course that's no good for quake. So if it's practical and not already the case, try putting everything on that drive.
Beaten
#7753 posted by Preach [86.153.45.117] on 2008/08/19 00:14:52
Ricky beat me to the first suggestion, and described it in much more detail. So just imagine I backed up his suggestions 100% in the first place.
Lol!
#7754 posted by RickyT23 [90.217.64.245] on 2008/08/19 02:42:51
its worth setting it up so you can use Worldcraft's excellent texturing mode. The "nomapversion" program removes the line "mapversion" "220" from the map file.
This 220 format is incompatible with Quark because it's not standard map file data. So a lot of qbsp utils wont work with it either. But AguirRe's TxQbsp (which came with Quakeadapter) does. It's the only tool I would use.
As for setting up Worldcraft there are two key point here:
1 - worldcraft must be installed in c:\program files\worldcraft\ for it to work with the Quakeadapter.
2 - I would save all files and run all of the tools from c:\quake\id1\maps\ so that the programs dont get confused and loose the files.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
This is a place with LOADS of info. On most of the technical stuff a mapper would ever need to know. Its also where AguirRe posts all of his tools. BspInfo is also a very usefull tool. And his engine - whoah! This engine is a mappers tool. It runs broken maps (the only engine which will run a lot of broken maps) and wit will tell you where the problems are.
Andy3012 - if you read up the thread you will see that I am repeating the same info to deifferent people over and over again, and those people before me, and the people before them and the people before them, and people explaining it to me and over and over and over and over and over.......
;P
Or
#7755 posted by spy [92.47.233.103] on 2008/08/19 07:37:04
you can create the batch file eg. compile.bat
with the command line(s) something like this:
qbsp [options] mapname
light [options] mapname
vis [options] mapname
copy mapname path(eg. c:\games\quake\id1\maps
after all just run your batch file
but make sure that your compile utils are placed in the same dir as your compile batch file
Also
#7756 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.123.36] on 2008/08/19 10:50:34
I would recommend running vis before light, sometimes the light data can confuse Vis.
Re 7756
#7757 posted by Mr Fribbles [202.161.117.131] on 2008/08/19 10:57:53
This is especially important if you're using Q1Rad, since that tool will use the portal information in its calculations.
#7758 posted by Andy3012 [86.162.200.176] on 2008/08/19 12:10:44
thanks guys for the help guys, i'm gonna make a start on mapping now :)
#7759 posted by sikkpin [24.127.70.27] on 2008/08/19 22:27:11
What exactly is the rule on releasing wads containing textures from other games? I've noticed that games like Hexen2, Heretic2, Rune, Unreal, Daikatana all have wads made and released. Is this not illegal? Is it legal because the wads only contain textures from the demos(I don't know this, I'm merely assuming)?
The reason I'm asking is because I've made complete wads of the above mentioned games(excluding Unreal & Daikatana) as well as RTCW, ET and Wheel of Time, in both full and half resolution, and they are going to waste just sitting on my hard-drive.
Technically
#7760 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.29.116] on 2008/08/19 22:37:28
I think those wads are probably illegal, but I don't think anybody's ever been prosecuted over something like that so whether or not you release them depends upon your personal scruples more than anything else.
Hmm
#7761 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2008/08/20 00:53:03
Yeh, they're completely illegal, but it's Q1, hardly competition for these games...
Only time I've known it to actual cause an issue was the Q3 textures being used in a custom map for the UT of the time. The author got a cease and desist from iD iirc
Nonentity
#7762 posted by sikkpin [24.127.70.27] on 2008/08/20 19:55:59
That was kinda my look on the situation. But what does everyone think about releasing wads that are complete (minus few textures that just wouldn't work in Quake)? Do you think that may be going overboard?
That Depends
#7763 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.136] on 2008/08/20 21:23:45
Some people will tell you that you are an unethical immoral bastard and should be hung by your manly parts. (See http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... but do not let the "loud dogs" bite you).
Others will highly appreciate your work and the possibility of using/see fresh great quality textures in upcoming maps.
It's always been done, it's always been great. Please release them. :)
Woof
#7764 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2008/08/21 05:19:02
I think sikkpin's comment was more based on the practise of releasing every texture from a game as a wad as opposed to generally releasing texture in packs.
I think releasing as wide variety of textures as possible encourages creativity (ie, all the textures from a given game). While it would possibly make more sense to organise the textures from a new game into thematic packs, it is a lot of work to sort an entire games textures and often the folder names create too fractured a set of wads. The only reason the dkt textures are organised by episode is that they were already sorted like that in the folder structure and happen to be fairly exclusive themes.
As for your point about the moral dimension, I don't believe it is any 'better' to release a few textures from a game rather than an entire set. Q1 is an old game now, it'd be a different matter if these games' textures were released for HL2 or UT3. While it is technically illegal so is taping a song off the radio, you don't see the RIAA going after home taping. Therefore it seems best to release these games' textures in their entirety to encourage creativity.
Hmm
#7765 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2008/08/21 05:20:31
I apparently have difficulty with the possessive singular
Well
#7766 posted by ijed [190.20.71.156] on 2008/08/21 06:33:56
You are a lacey bitch.
Good way of putting it with home taping paralell.
Dont Give Those Bastards
#7767 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.173] on 2008/08/21 07:00:23
too much credit. They fought the proliferation of
audio digital technology tooth and nail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit...
Grindtity:
#7768 posted by metlslime [98.210.181.179] on 2008/08/21 09:25:56
While it is technically illegal so is taping a song off the radio, you don't see the RIAA going after home taping.
It doesn't really work to start with the claim that all infringement is equal, and then use the fact that the RIAA only goes after some infringement and not others as support for your claim.
Regarding the actual point, some infringement is worse than others, and I think that the volume of sampled content is a major factor. In that vein, taking one or two textures from a game is less infringing than a wholesale rip of all textures.
Hell, there are even different degrees of murder, and some are worse than others, why wouldn't there be a spectrum of copyright infringement too?
Is
#7769 posted by ijed [190.20.72.232] on 2008/08/23 18:31:52
There a way to have monsters see through from an ordinarily blocked leaf into another?
So a fish or scrag can see the player through trnsparent water brushes, for example.
I Am
#7770 posted by ijed [190.20.72.232] on 2008/08/23 18:36:59
Using a func_water entity, but don't want to break the edict limit if I can help it.
Wondering if anyone has a more efficient solution.
Wait
#7771 posted by Preach [86.158.205.41] on 2008/08/23 19:30:25
I want to check that I understand the problem correctly. I think what you would like to have is a regular water leaf in your map, and for monsters to be able to trace line of sight through the water leaf and one or more open leaves about it. To achieve this, you need to modify the function visible() in ai.qc. The lines
if(trace_inwater && trace_inopen)
return FALSE;
tell the code to deny line of sight to traces which go through both. Commenting out this code will make all water boundaries visible. If you want some more complicated rules for who can see through what, it might be worth creating seperate visibility functions for different rules.
That's It
#7772 posted by ijed [190.20.117.82] on 2008/08/24 16:50:07
Thanks Preach.
I was thinking to have this dependant on the water alpha somehow, or on distance, but that seems like overcomplication, when the map should be designed with this in mind.
Haha I'm A Noob :P
#7773 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/25 01:07:35
how do i compile with qbsp and tell it to load multiple wad files?
i have:
"wad" "wad1.wad; wad2.wad; wad3.wad"
but all it does it use the first wad. commas (,) don't load any wads at all, so what am i missing?
Doh Lol
#7774 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/08/25 01:12:59
i found out it needs to be:
"wad1.wad;wad2.wad;wad3.wad;&...
no spaces and a closing ; :P
Water Transparency
#7775 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/10 02:23:09
so making a water brush into a func_illusionary looses the transparency...
is there any way to trick the engine into making a water brush non-solid but still have transparency? :P
Putting
#7776 posted by ijed [190.20.65.246] on 2008/09/10 03:06:47
.alpha in the progs for illusionaries is the only thing that occurs, but then you'd still lose the 'animation' of the water texture and it would only work in engines supporting .alpha.
FitzQuake Gives Me The Error
#7777 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.58] on 2008/09/12 10:32:22
too many efrags
WTF?!?!
Is it because I have too many func_illusionarys?
OK - Quoted From AguirRe's Tooltips:
#7778 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.58] on 2008/09/12 10:35:37
"Too many efrags!"
This console warning is normally caused by having entities (typically torches) too close to or
even partly inside solid walls. Another possibility is too many (or too far apart) brushes that
are included in one brush entity. EFrags means Entity Fragments. Enhanced Win/GLQuake has higher
limits.
So there I have it! My func_illusionary is made up of too many parts which are too spread out....
Help Me With Bsp
#7779 posted by newbie2356 [124.184.183.111] on 2008/09/16 08:37:32
Alright, first of all , hi ppl.
now onto my problem, I downloaded and installed bsp so I can make quake maps. but after doing the tutorial (in fact any tutorial), they all tell me to go export then click on Qbsp.bat.
Now the problem is, I don't have a Qbsp.bat, When I found it in bats folder, there was a thing that said Qbsp, but it was an application and not a bat.
How can I use this if its not a batch file?
My details are:
OS: Windows xp home (sp3)
bsp dir: C;-> bsp
quake dir: C;-> quake
theyre all in their default locations, but I can't see how to test my maps if I cant compile.
Newbie...
#7780 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/09/16 08:46:07
You need compile tool I guess.
Check there for TxQBSP, VIS, and LIGHT tools: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Newbie...
#7781 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.185.153] on 2008/09/16 09:12:01
- are you using the latest version 0.96d ?
- under 'export' there should be several options:
fast.bat
full.bat
leaktest.bat and so on.
Just use full.bat to compile your map and you should be ok. (a bat file is just a txt file with commands in it, you can edit it with notepad, rightclick on it to see what I mean)
- the tools JPL linked above are great, but not necessary at first, BSP comes with everything needed to make a map. But you should check them out once you've gained more experience
Yer
#7782 posted by newbie2356 [121.217.161.128] on 2008/09/17 23:33:49
I tried the other bats, but how do I test my map? I tried launching quake and typing +map tutorial map (also tried tutorial_map).
It's still weird though how it wasn't a bat when I installed it.
Newbie2356
#7783 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.212.240] on 2008/09/18 21:33:17
Once you have compiled the map, there should be a bsp file along with the map file in bsp\Quake\Maps.
Copy the bsp file and put it in Quake\ID1\maps, start the game and type: map tutorial
(without a + or underscore _ )
Also
#7784 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.212.240] on 2008/09/18 21:39:04
note that there are two meanings of the word "map":
- the .map file used to compile a .bsp file (tutorial.map is just a text file, open it with notepad)
- the actual compiled .bsp (tutorial.bsp) is also called a map or level.
Hope that makes it clear enough.
Tried, But I've Got Pak Files
#7785 posted by newbie2356 [121.217.161.128] on 2008/09/18 23:42:20
I tried to copy the map into the maps folder, but it wasn't there, partly becasue i have pak files instead of a map folder (i know whats in them by the way), what do I do now?
I also read the fast.bat, and it tld me that it couldnt copy the file into the directore, im gonna try and modify some configs.
any more help is much appreciated.
#7786 posted by Sielwolf [91.4.237.226] on 2008/09/19 00:40:51
I tried to copy the map into the maps folder, but it wasn't there
just create a new folder called maps in ID1, and put your tutorial.bsp into it, run the game and type: map tutorial
Btw does the compiling work for you/do you end up with a .bsp file after exporting ?
I also read the fast.bat, and it tld me that it couldnt copy the file into the directore
I would say it's better to get a basic understanding about the whole process of compiling and how to run maps, before changing anything in the bat files (or atleast backup them first, or you'll have to reinstall the editor if something goes wrong).
(yes it's possible to modify the paths in the bat files so when you compile, it copies the bsp into ID1\maps and lets Quake launch it, but see above)
Compiling Question
#7787 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/19 06:18:12
let's assume i have a bsp that's been vised.
let's assume i go and change the .map file and change the texture on one face (but don't modify any brushwork).
is it possible to take the updated texture data and put it into the old .bsp file without ruining vis data?
let's assume i finished vising a map that took a week and a half and found an unbelievably stupid texturing error and want to shoot myself.
Necros:
#7788 posted by metlslime [24.130.121.165] on 2008/09/19 06:44:07
I don't think qbsp can just swap out the texture... but theoretically, some tool could be created that did it.
I know quark can open and edit bsp files, don't know if it can edit a texture on a specific face, though.
Metlslime / Necros
#7789 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/09/19 08:34:51
It is possible to export textures from a bsp with QuArK: I did it for Babel some years ago.
I alos tested to modify texture in a bsp, then save it, but it does not work..
AFAIK, aguirRe made some texture alignement correction in bsp for Travail mission pack, maybe it would be a good idea to ask him how he performed that, and also if it is possible using the same stuff to replace texture by another one ;)
#7790 posted by newbie2356 [203.51.62.13] on 2008/09/19 14:15:17
I tried to copy the map into the maps folder, but it wasn't there
just create a new folder called maps in ID1
------------------------------
I tried that, theres a .file in there called maps and it blocks me from putting a maps folder in there.
this is all too hard, so i'm gonna give up and try a different editor instead. any in mind that are good?
Editor Isn't The Problem
#7791 posted by DaZ [80.41.135.31] on 2008/09/19 16:24:11
It won't matter what editor you use, all compiled BSP files need to be in id1/maps in order for Quake to load them, no matter what editor you use.
Its very strange that windows will not let you create a new folder called 'maps' in your id1 folder, I have never heard of such an issue before. No way should a single file stop you from creating a new folder.
Not really sure what to suggest it sounds a bit odd, maybe post a screenshot of your id1 folder open in windows so we can see whats actually in there :)
Well...
#7792 posted by Mike Woodham [86.146.215.188] on 2008/09/19 19:45:04
You can't create a folder called 'maps' if there is already one there called 'maps'.
"theres a .file in there called maps": is this file actually a folder/directory?
No Idea,
#7793 posted by newbie2356 [58.168.119.181] on 2008/09/22 13:39:03
yes, thats what i'm talking about.
don't know what to do with this one, maybe if I did two options
*moved that .fileto the desktop and then made the folder, then trying ti tat way
*or fiddling with the configs where I can use both the maps.file and a folder by renaming it.
anyone every done this before?
Newbie2356
#7794 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/09/22 15:29:03
Put the mapname.bsp file in the maps directory, start quake and type "map mapname" in the console, replacing mapname with whatever the map is called.
If you don't already have a maps directory then you need to make one, if there already is one then put the bsp in there.
Cylinder
#7795 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/09/23 00:33:32
how come my cylinder wont show up when i compile and run?
here is a screenshot: [url]http://img528.imageshack.us/i...
and here is my .map file: [url]http://www.st3ady.com/quake/f...
I'm a n00b workin on my first single player map in gtkradiant 1.5.0
someone suggested i switch to worldcraft but i dont feel like learning another program :(
#7796 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/09/23 00:34:38
since i can't edit on this message board:
http://www.st3ady.com/quake/fnp01....
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528...
Hmm...
#7797 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/23 00:49:02
You could try just compiling the bsp and vis stages (skipping light); that will let you see things clearly. It could be a lighting issue.
Also, look at the output of the map compile with the cylinder there, compared to it not being there.
#7798 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/09/23 04:03:08
turns out quake 1 doesnt support patches, so u have to use prisms! :) thx anyhow
That Would Be It
#7799 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/23 09:15:31
Of course, you could just carve the cylinder out of a cuboid, if you're feeling really hardcore...
Long Plats And Sounds
#7800 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/23 12:32:49
Say I have a plat that I want to move a long way (say 1000 units vertically). What I'm hearing is that the sound plays from where the plat started and doesn't follow - so as you get further and further away, the sound dies out until it's silent.
Is there a trick to getting the sound to follow a plat that travels a long distance?
Nope
#7801 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/23 19:06:32
and not just that, the sound will emanate from the plat's origin, which is determined by the center of the first brush in it's definition in the .map file.
well, ok, i suppose you could play the sound on the player entity's item, body or weapon channels, as those are special and always play through both speakers, but that would be dumb. :P
one thing i've noticed is that id tend to be pretty lazy about their sound in all of their games.
#7802 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/09/23 19:10:55
Ahh crap, so no work around? Oh well...
Really?
#7803 posted by metlslime [24.130.121.165] on 2008/09/23 19:17:30
in the code, it looks like the sound comes from origin + (mins + maxs)/2, which means, the center of the bounding box at its default location, shifted to compensate for any movement (since origin for bmodels is normally 0,0,0.)
But, the mins/maxs for bmodels might be calculated badly by qbsp, so you could still be right, i'd have to look into that.
Willem
#7804 posted by Mike Woodham [86.146.215.188] on 2008/09/23 20:53:50
If the platform is against a wall, you could have another hidden platform moving in exectly the opposite direction and maybe as you move out of the range of one sound, you'll move into the range of the other.
I have used that idea in a map where I wanted to draw the player's attention to a button operated bridge but the player was too far away to hear it - I just put another one of the same spec. in the floor beneath the player. It worked fine.
#7805 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/09/23 21:25:33
Neat idea ... I'll try that, thanks!
Metlslime
#7806 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/23 22:52:05
Remember that you can put eprint(self); in the spawn function of various things that use bmodels, and then compare them to what you think they should be.
Question for the coders, though: can you make the sound follow it around?
To Clarify
#7807 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/23 22:54:44
can you make the sound follow it around with code changes?
Progs Changes Or Exe Changes?
#7808 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/09/23 23:19:33
no & yes respectively
Sounds Promising
#7809 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/09/24 00:11:36
Feel free to expand on both...
Lardarse
#7810 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/09/24 00:32:42
without modifying the exe, sounds cannot follow an entity.
they are just spawned in at whatever entity it is tied to's origin.
this is the kind of thing i mean about id being lazy about sound in their engines.
another example would be quake 3 having doppler shift, but doom3 NOT having it. they actually took a step back...
Progs Way
#7811 posted by Preach [217.44.87.165] on 2008/09/24 00:52:19
You can hack it in the progs too, for a reasonable return. The easiest way to do it is spawn a new entity with the platform, the "func_plat_sounddummy", so that the platform's enemy is the sounddummy and the sounddummy's owner is the platform. Then in plat_go_up and plat_go_down you replace the sound call with:
local entity oself;
oself = self;
self = self.enemy;
self.air_finished = time;
self.cnt = 0;
sounddummy_play();
self = oself;
Above them define:
void() sounddummy_play =
{
setorigin(self, (self.owner.absmin + self.owner.absmax) * 0.5);
sound (self, 1, self.noise, 1, ATTN_NORM);
self.cnt = self.cnt + 1;
self.nextthink = self.air_finished + 1.4 * self.cnt;
self.think = sounddummy_play;
}
Notice the unusual way to calculate the nextthink time, this makes the sounds play at as close to regular intervals as the discrete frames allow.
Similarly in plat_hit_top and bottom replace the sound call with
local entity oself;
oself = self;
self = self.enemy;
sounddummy_stop();
self = oself;
and define
void() sounddummy_stop =
{
setorigin(self, (self.owner.absmin + self.owner.absmax) * 0.5);
sound (self, 1, self.noise1, 1, ATTN_NORM);
self.nextthink = -1;
self.think = SUB_Null;
}
Then the sound gets restarted every 1.4 seconds. Of course, this isn't quite the same as the looping sound quake does usually, since it always plays from the beginning, and doesn't wait until the end to restart. But on a lift you can probably create a sound which sounds ok looped like this.
Further improvements would be to dynamically create the sounddummy and remove it once the lift has come to a halt(AND the halting sound has been given time to finish). Also making the looping time customisable/better fitted to your selected sound.
Of course, the best improvement would be to save the extra entity entirely. Unfortunately to do that you need to make the lift perform a number of "think" operations before it reaches it's destination, while remembering that it needs a "think" function for it's arrival at the final destination(see SUB_CalcMoveDone for the details of that). Add to that the fact that you have to work with self.ltime rather than time, and think about what happens to the sound if you're blocked(probably best to make the original sound a looping sample, but not to rethink - if you're blocked then the sound can afford to come from the same place until the lift is unblocked). So it's a much tougher proposition to get right.
#7812 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/09/24 01:24:23
The duplicate entity moving in the opposite direction worked. Hooray!
Game_text
#7813 posted by Killa [70.126.213.3] on 2008/10/04 12:55:42
if anyone's mapped for half-life and knows what im talking about is it possible to get game_text into my quake maps?
Yes
#7814 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/05 00:46:04
The map "Visions of Hatred" of Darin McNeal has a CCK.
A kind of Cut-Scene Construktion Kit.
Included is the 'Cut-scene Construction Kit' I developed for this level.
It allows the inclusion of scripted cut-scenes into quake levels."
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/...
Lighting
#7815 posted by Mike Woodham [86.168.122.54] on 2008/10/11 21:30:42
I am lighting a static model with a 'light' entity using 'mangle'. It lights the background but not the model.
If I then use 'light' without 'mangle' (default light value in both cases) the model it lit perfectly, albeit that so is a lot of the surrounding area, which I do not want (atmosphere, don't you know!).
So, I suppose my question is: could it be something to do with the (mangled) light's cone not covering the whole of the model's bounding box? Or is some other "undocumented feature" at work here?
Yes
#7816 posted by negke [82.83.17.165] on 2008/10/11 21:36:56
The surface below the model has to be lit properly. Maybe you can achive roughly the same effect as mangled lights by using multiple weaker lights with higher wait values.
Thanks Negke
#7817 posted by Mike Woodham [86.168.122.54] on 2008/10/11 22:07:58
A mixture of two lights, one 'mangled' and the other, a plain light, lighting the floor below, looks just about right.
Only another 1000 or so lights to go...
Custents Mod - Func_rotating_door
#7818 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 07:59:15
hey, iv made a door using the "func_rotating_door" solid class entitie and it just makes the brush disappear its no long there ingame... what am i doing wrong? could someone help me and tell me how im supposed to use it? thanks
#7819 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/15 08:07:41
only some compilers can properly compile a map with a rotating brush. try aguire's compile tools.
#7820 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 08:11:43
Frikac's cant?
#7821 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 08:11:59
nvm thats qc sorry -.-
#7822 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 08:25:19
No, his aquires compile tools did not help... maybe im making the door wrong?
all i did was make a door shaped brush and tied it to func_rotating_door
Hip Rotating
#7823 posted by spy [92.47.229.8] on 2008/10/15 09:35:02
func_rotate_door = info_rotate + rotate_object
#7824 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 09:45:45
so when i make the func_rotating_door i should use it like a origin brush?
Sumthin' Like This
#7825 posted by spy [92.47.229.8] on 2008/10/15 21:28:28
http://shub-hub.com/files/trash_wi...
CZG's Instructions For Making A HIPNOTIC Rotating Entity
#7826 posted by negke [82.83.24.149] on 2008/10/15 22:26:50
http://kell.quaddicted.com/quoth/q...
#7827 posted by Killa [70.126.212.240] on 2008/10/15 22:38:59
WoW all of that just for a rotating door?
Yeah
#7828 posted by Kinn [86.161.165.138] on 2008/10/15 23:56:49
in the quake 1 engine, rotating brushes are basically just a colossal hack.
Sound Channel Selection
#7829 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/16 14:43:46
How can I set a channel for a sound I want to play in a map that is Quoth2-based. I read Kell's tutorial, but nothing is explained about channel setting...
I Checked
#7830 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/16 19:33:12
and you're right. the omission in question is:
A sound channel on which to play the sound can be set, with values from 0 -> 7. Default is 0.
the key you use for that is 'impulse'.
Append
#7831 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/16 19:34:09
it should be noted that quake uses channel 0 to mean 'any available channel'. it won't override a sound playing on a channel, so if you want a sound to be stoppable, you need to specify a channel > 0.
Armor & Health
#7832 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/16 20:14:19
I wondered what the skill of player in Quake1 relates in case of health and armor.
When my health state lowers to 15 points I am close to death, but what role does armor play in this?
Does my health count lower slowly when my armor is heigh?
When my armor rate lowers to 15 it turns red, does my health count drop faster?
I can't find any reliable match in these two.
Necros
#7833 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/16 20:24:07
Thanks a lot for the explanations ;)
Armour
#7834 posted by Preach [86.150.195.129] on 2008/10/16 20:26:34
Armour takes a certain % of any hit and deducts those points from the armour first. The % depends on the colour of the armour, green takes 30% of a hit, yellow takes 60% and red takes 80% off the hit. If the amount of damage taken exceeds the amount of armour you have left, the excess points are deducted from health.
This does not change if your armour or health are low, the colour is only there as an indication that you're about to run out of one or the other.
MadFox
#7835 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/16 20:29:39
I suggest that you test it on a test map. as example a box with a soldier + an armor. Let the soldier almost kill you (i.e health lower than 15) and then pick the armor, and check whether health is dropping down in the same way...
Otherwize you would have to explore original progs.dat decompiled qc stuff...
Maybe you could check there whether you can find something of interest: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quak...
#7836 posted by negke [82.82.169.27] on 2008/10/16 20:49:01
I once read that in Doom it's not a bad idea to completely deplete a blue armor first and only then pick up, say, a green one, because its damage deflection surpasses the one of the lower armor regardless of the total amount of armor points the player gets. Does the Quake armors work the same way then?
#7837 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.139] on 2008/10/16 20:50:16
yes
Clear
#7838 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/16 21:11:38
That's a clear explanation. I 'm so involved in playing I never had time to watch what exactly happens reffering armor and health.
Mostly I only keep my health score in view, while combat takes that much concentration.
JPL- I already did, but it took quiet some time before the soldier had my armor count down. It already killed all my health before that time, so I was figuring what would be the relation between them two.
Green Armor
#7839 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/10/16 21:43:47
only protects for 30%, so you're still losing two points of health for every point of armor. (Meaning, with a green armor you can die with 50% armor.) Yellow is 1:1, but you get 150 so you can still die with 50 armor, and then red is 2:1. Only with red armor do you get complete parity.
Okay, Roughly.
#7840 posted by Lunaran [24.158.1.74] on 2008/10/16 21:44:10
ykwim
Coming Soon To A Living Room Near You
#7841 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.174] on 2008/10/16 23:15:13
Quake Rules AD&D
Durability
#7842 posted by Preach [86.150.195.129] on 2008/10/17 01:04:11
Although it offers the least protection, green does take the most damage before it is completely gone. 250 points of damage in one go would wipe out red and yellow armour exactly(and do 50/100 hp of health damage too). 250 hp of damage in a single blow would leave a full green armour with 25 points left(although the player would need a megahealth to survive the remaining 175hp of damage).
If you imagine the 250 damage being dealt out in smaller portions over time, with healing from medpacks in between, then the numbers only change a small amount due to rounding. So the green armour will last you the longest, assuming you have the healing to keep you alive.
As a final aside, it's worth noting that when rounding occurs, the damage to armour is always rounded up, although the amount taken is also rounded up once the points from the armour are deducted. This can be important when you make new monsters with low damage attacks, as 4hp will do no health damage against red armour, similarly 2hp for yellow and 1hp for green.
Sometimes this is undesirable and should be avoided. Knight melee attacks are random between 0 and 9 damage per frame, with an expectation of 4.5 and heavy weighting towards the center. This means they tend to do more armour damage than you might expect from just looking at the total output of damage. The randomisation also means that they don't always do just armour damage to a red armoured player.
On the other hand, in Quoth the pyro does even lower damage per hit, but may hit the player two or three times per frame. This, along with the health pack it drops, helps solidify it's role as an armour stripping monster: after a fight the player will often be as healed or moreso than when they began, but hopefully with a drop in armour protection.
Converting Quake 1/Counter-Strike Geometry To Quake 3 Arena.
#7843 posted by 8IronBob [68.107.185.83] on 2008/10/19 14:50:42
I have a bit of an issue here. There's a map that I have built a nice map in CS:CZ not too long ago, using Valve Hammer v3.5, and now I'm looking to port that geometry to GTK Radiant to be built for Q3A. However, I have an issue where the geometry doesn't seem to take, for some strange reason. Does someone know how to get the map geometry to be recognized from Hammer in GTK Radiant for uses for games other than it was originally built for? Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
8IronBob
#7844 posted by Preach [217.44.221.242] on 2008/10/19 19:49:10
The .map files follow different formats in later versions of Hammer, even though they have the same extension. You might be able to convert from one map format to another using QuArK, if I remember rightly.
Custent
#7845 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/20 19:39:47
Is there a manner to get rid of the funny counter turning in the path_rotation?
I've managed to get a rather long track in a map with these infopoints, but for some reason the object always turns in counterangle when passing the 360-grid.
I could hide this path rotation, but I wondered for another solution.
Maybe it isn't possible, otherwise it wouldn't be there in the custent with that hide-away turn.
MadFox
#7846 posted by Preach [217.42.221.171] on 2008/10/21 20:55:27
The angle turning code probably doesn't deal with the case near 360 degrees elegantly, it can be tricky. It's possible that you'll get better results by setting the target angle to be 360 greater than it is. For example, to turn from 330 to 15 degrees the short way, rotating only 45 degrees in-between, you might want to specify the target angle as 375 rather than 15. I've never tested to see if that helps, but I can imagine some ways of writing the code where it would.
You might also try adding additional in-between path_corner entities with angles and positions between the desired start and end points. This might help it work out which direction you want to see it rotate.
#7847 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/10/21 21:33:34
it might be designed to always turn the shorter direction, so if you try to rotate 270 it will rotate -90 instead. So preach's suggestion might solve that.
Turn
#7848 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/22 00:53:16
I made some testing maps to see why that hide away corner was added.
When making a square with four path rotation, evidently as 90 -180 270 and 360 the last point to 0 or 360 makes a counterclock point.
I tried to overide it with random degrees but the turning always occurs, clockwise or counterclockwise.
When marking with an angle the object gets straightened to that angle, no angle makes the object collide to the new angle.
For sofar I can follow the logic, but as for sitting in a plane it is strange to see the the object fly turning wrong.
Yeah!
#7849 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/22 02:03:17
Inded, the 375 worked. There I go with my 360 round.
Quoth2 Issues (sound + Func_hordespawn)
#7850 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/23 20:58:51
Sound Issue
I have a problem switching on/off sounds using play_sound_trigger. I would like to obtain something like this:
- sound 1 is triggered on payer start (it is a loop)
- sound 2 is triggered by a button push, using the same channel as sound 1, hence it should override it.
The effect must sound like a bigmachine sound, that is stopped when the button is pushed... like rotor speed slowing down.
I noticed 2 problems:
1/ when sound 1 is triggered, but the player cannot hear it as too far away (at the beginning of the map, as the player shall enter a base to hear it), then sound 1 is not played, or cannot be heared, not even when close to the source. Pushing the button allows sound 2 to be played as expected
2/ Then I tried to trigger sound 1 close to its source, then it loops without problems, but sound 2 is played, but does not override sound 1
Any idea ??
func_hordespanw Issue
As said in the tutorial, when triggerd, func_hordespawn must spawn monsters that are aware of the presence of the player... but it is not the case in my map: monsters are stucked and wait to see the player before being angry... like if ambush flag has been set.. weird..
Any idea ??
For Hordespawn
#7851 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/10/23 21:45:35
try setting SPAWN_ANGRY on the spawner... and it should pass it to the monsters
Re 7850
#7852 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/24 00:27:58
1/ when sound 1 is triggered, but the player cannot hear it as too far away (at the beginning of the map, as the player shall enter a base to hear it), then sound 1 is not played, or cannot be heared, not even when close to the source. Pushing the button allows sound 2 to be played as expected
this is a limitation of the quake engine. only looping sounds set up at map spawn time will play properly. looping sounds that are out of the player's range will be cleared from memory.
the only way to do it is to make the looping sound loop manually with play_sound_triggered, setting the toggled flag and setting the 'wait' to the appropriate duration.
as for func_hordespawn/info_multispawn
i believe the monsters spawning awake feature of the entity is broken in quoth2.
you are supposed to be able to set the 'awake' key to '1' and make monsters go after you.
Anger!
#7853 posted by Preach [86.150.195.136] on 2008/10/24 02:21:55
The awake key doesn't work, even though it is advertised, but lardarse is correct that setting SPAWN_ANGRY on the info_multispawn or info_groupspawn will pass that flag on to any monsters spawned. Probably the forthcoming fix to the awake key will be to apply the same effect as the spawnflag, so give it a go.
I should warn now that there is a subtle bug with the info_multispawn and this spawnflag: it looks for the "activator" at the time of spawning the monster when deciding who to get mad at. The problem is there can be a delay between the activation of an info_multispawn and the actual spawning of the monster(why else would you use one over the teleport spawnflag?). The "activator" might change in that time, in which case the monster could end up mad at the wrong player, or not at all if activator isn't a player. info_groupspawn should be safe from this, and it will be fixed in the next release.
Necros / Preach
#7854 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/24 08:28:34
Thanks a lot for the infos: I'll give a try this morning to:
Sound as necros described... and if does not work, I could simply change the effect.. not a big deal :P
Func_hordespawn: well if not possible to make monsters anger easily (i.e at least for those that need to, and not all spawned monsters), I will simply remove it and replace it by normal triggered monsters.
Thanks men: you rock ;)
Spawnflag
#7855 posted by Preach [86.153.44.193] on 2008/10/24 15:48:21
The spawnflag goes on the info_groupspawn(which is the new name for a func_hordespawn), so you can do it selectively - only on the ones for which need awake monsters. So what you would like to do is possible, the bug I described doesn't apply to what you want to do.
More Sound Issue
#7856 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/24 17:21:13
I tested the wait field in play_sound_triggered, and it worked well. I had to remove loop indicator in the .wav sound to make it properly. Well, the result is quite acceptable, while there is a small sound break (around a 10th of a second) when the sound is triggerd again, and sthen restarted... maybe an engine issue... :/
BUT, it is not yet possible to stop it with another signal that overrides it onto the same channel, I guess it is a Quoth issue there...
So I removed the wait field, and added a trigger_delay that loops on the initial trigger with the exact sound duration for the delay field, enabling the sound loop as it triggers again the play_sound_trigger.
Using a button push, it allowed me to kill the trigger_delay, then breaking the loop: as a result the second sound can be heared: done !!!
Don't know if it is clear :P
Well, I still have some minor improvement to add in order avoid some sound glitches, but at least it works ;)
Still have to work on spawning ;)
Thanks a lot for the help provided :D
Hey Willem (or Some Other Ue3 Knowledgeable Person)
#7857 posted by Bal [82.234.123.21] on 2008/10/24 17:46:25
How do you avoid this:
http://gaetm.free.fr/3d/2008/Unear...
The vertex light fucks up between 2 ground meshes, works better with lightmaps, but I'd rather be using vertex light. The actual vertices are all overlapped fine etc, can bake vertex light perfectly in maya/max... Any idea?
#7858 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/24 17:52:52
Are those all static meshes? One thing to try would be to turn off shadow casting on the ground meshes since they won't be shadowing anything anyway. That will stop their corners from turning dark.
#7859 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/24 17:53:24
And the sidewalks as well. That's probably what's boning you.
Willem
#7860 posted by Bal [82.234.123.21] on 2008/10/24 17:55:19
Yeah they are all static meshes, thanks I'll try tonight!
Jpl:
#7861 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/24 19:39:08
the reason play_sound_triggered isn't stopping the sound when triggered again is because you haven't set the sound channel.
the default for that entity is to use channel 0. channel 0 basically tells quake to use whatever channel is available to play a sound.
the way the entity stops a sound playing is it plays a 'silent' sound on the same channel, but if the channel is set to 0, then the engine just chooses another channel instead of cutting off the one already playing. to get it to work, you need to set the 'impulse' key to a value between 1 and 7 (inclusive).
Necros
#7862 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/24 19:59:37
I did it, but it does not work, I'm pretty sure I'm missing something
Nevermind: as I already exceed some standard limits in this map (clipnodes, max marksurface, max visible leaf, max faces), I will certainely exceed edicts as well, so unfortunately, I think I will not save that much there...
Anyway, I'll give it a try with a test map ;) and thanks a lot for the support.
Custom Skins
#7863 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/24 22:44:30
Is it possible to create a new monster skins without creating a whole new PAK file? Can you simply throw them into a directory structure of some sort and have Quake use them? I'm guessing not since the textures for the standard creatures are embedded inside the MDL files but I figured I'd ask.
Do You Mean
#7864 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/10/24 23:04:01
textures without .mdls or .mdls without .paks?
You can have stuff loose no problem, but AFAIK skins must be inside a model unless they are external skins - high rez or some such.
But that means the mapper can't turn them on or off, they're always on, or they're not, engine side.
#7865 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/24 23:06:27
Right, sorry. So skins must be contained inside of an MDL, but the MDL files can be loose. Is that correct?
Well...
#7866 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/10/24 23:18:05
the way quake searches for things is:
1. mod pakfiles
2. mod loose files
3. id1 pakfiles
4. id1 loose files
so you can't override files in #3 by putting them in #4, but you can if you put them in #2.
Also
#7867 posted by Preach [86.153.44.193] on 2008/10/24 23:56:44
If you're running with -hipnotic or -rogue in the command line, the pak files and loose files from the hipnotic or rogue directory are also searched, not sure when, but I'd guess in-between the mod and id1 step. This caused the missing sounds in quoth2, it was very annoying.
Metl
#7868 posted by Spirit [80.171.40.125] on 2008/10/25 09:42:56
I always thought a loose file would override a file in the pak. Wouldn't it be 2143 rather? With the engine "override" starting on the right and overriding everything from there that comes in the steps to the left.
Are engines that "allow replacement stuff" rewritten for this? (This is no stupid sarcasm in case you are wrong, I am genuinely interested in this).
Spirit:
#7869 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2008/10/25 10:16:49
this search pattern only applies to multiple files with the same exact filename. So if you want soldier.mdl to override another soldier.mdl, you need to be aware of that search order.
If you have soldier_mdl_skin0.tga, that is going to override the soldier.mdl skin no matter what location the .tga is in, as long as there isn't already a soldier_mdl_skin0.tga located earlier in the search list.
Necros / Preach
#7870 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/25 16:15:47
Sound issue is solved. Actually I think the issue came from a kind of synchronization that was required between the sounds to play (i.e when sound 1 stop, sound 2 has to start, as sound 1 was looped using wait field in pay_sound_triggered). I think the sound 1 was not overriden cause play_sound_trigger wait field forced a restart at some point, that overrided again sound 2, so the effect was not there.
I solved it using trigger_relays, creating my loop there, killing the main trigger relay when button is pushed.
Anyway, thanks a lot for all the help you provided ;)
Oh
#7871 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/25 19:40:33
i think i misunderstood the first time.
you mean you were trying to get sound 1 to be overridden by sound 2?
yeah, that's not possible. :( the sound channel you specify in the 'impulse' field means the sound channel on that specific entity. if you had two play_sound_triggered, one wouldn't override the other because multiple entities can play sounds on the same channel.
it's an idea though, to expand the sound playing entity to incorporate functionality which uses more than one sound.
Necros
#7872 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/25 19:59:20
Hence my idea to create a loop with 2 trigger_relays (very old method for loop creation :) ) and use button's killtarget function in order to stop sound 1 to be repeated (killing one trigger_relay), and at the same time triggering sound 2.
Actually, the overlap is possible if you rework the both sounds:
- sound 1 needs to be a looped sound, but you have to remove the loop markers, otherwize it will never stop
- sound 2 is reworked adding sound 1 + sound 2 as a result, but it delays sound 2 effect...
Also, you need to repeat sound 1 faster than its duration (for sound 1 looping) and then you can stop sound 1 without fearing any sound break during "sound 1 stop to sound 2 start" transition.
I also think a good idea would be to make ambient_generalpurpose sound switchable: it would have helped me a lot there :D
Anyway, thanks for the support ;)
#7873 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/10/25 22:17:32
you shouldn't need to killtarget a relay though.
play_sound_triggered still does have the ability to stop a looping sound from playing. as long as impulse is set, if a play_sound_triggered (with the toggle flag on) is triggered again, the sound will be stopped.
also ambient_generalpurpose: that's not a bad idea, but i'm not sure if that will work or not.
the reason has to do with why ambient sounds with that entity (and all other ambient ents) play correctly looped while a looped sound started with play_sound_xxxx does not.
the function used to set up an ambient sound is different from the function to set up a regular sound (play_sound, monster noises, guns, etc). the ambient sound function can ONLY be used at map start. in fact, i'm not even sure if the ambient sound is tied to the entity at all.. could someone try killtargetting an ambient_sound entity?
Switchable Ambients
#7874 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/10/26 05:02:38
been meaning to ask about these... are they possible with code modifications? Wrong thread, I know...
Necros
#7875 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/10/26 05:05:28
That trick doesn't work, the sound lives on.
Necros
#7876 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 09:33:16
I set same channel on both play_sound_triggered, but when sound 2 is trigger, it does not override sound 1, so it does not work actually, hence the trick I had to build with the trigger_relays, and explained in #7872.
I also tried to killtarget an ambient_generalpurpose, and a play_sound_trigger, but unfortunately it does not work neither...
I think there's maybe a small bug there, but nothing impossible to solve by other way ;)
Invisible Barriers
#7877 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.233.177] on 2008/10/26 10:56:47
I want an invisible player barrier that I can remove by a trigger. Is there such a thing?
Func_wall doesn't work witout a texture, so can't be invisible.
Is it there but I just can't see it?
Func_toggle_wall
#7878 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 11:13:04
... with clip texture ?? I don't know if it works..
Errata
#7879 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 11:13:35
func_toggle_wall is for Quoth ;)
#7880 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/26 11:39:39
Mike
Make your main wall out of clip brushes and then add a small cube with a real texture on it, embedded in the surrounding geometry or something. That should allow you to have a func_(whatever) that is effectively invisible.
#7881 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/26 11:40:03
Err, in other words : No, you can't create a func_something made entirely of clip brushes. Trickery is required.
JPL
#7882 posted by Preach [217.44.219.175] on 2008/10/26 12:12:40
You're not quite getting the problem which is leading to your original setup not working. Each info_sound_triggered entity has it's own set of 7 channels, playing a sound on channel 1 of the second play_sound_triggered doesn't stop the sound on channel 1 of the first, because those are different, distinct channels.
The reason behind this is obvious for players, which have a channel for weapon sounds, and a channel for pain noises. You wouldn't want the sound of player 2's rocket launcher to cancel out the sound of player 1's shotgun. However, you would want player 2's latest pain sound to cancel out the last one if it's still going. In any case, this is all done by the engine, it's fundamental.
There would be a way to do things in the manner you desire. The QC would create a single shared entity which would act as the "speaker" for all the info_sound_triggered entities, sounds would be played by that entity rather than the info_sound_triggered itself. Then since it's always the same entity which owns the sounds, the channels are the same from info_sound_triggered to info_sound_triggered. However, I don't think this is the most intuitive way of setting up the entity, so I don't think it will get changed. Maybe this way can be added as a separate, new entity, but the existing one is behaving as intended, not a bug.
Tf2 Question
#7883 posted by wrath [85.226.234.209] on 2008/10/26 12:54:50
How in the hell do I run a map without getting stuck at the waiting for players screen? All I want to do is run around with the scout in the official levels and get a proper feel for dimensions and stuff.
A Guess
#7884 posted by Preach [217.44.219.175] on 2008/10/26 14:07:03
Have you tried setting maxplayers to 1? I think that's what I did to make it work.
#7885 posted by wrath [85.226.234.209] on 2008/10/26 14:14:15
Tried it. Did not work.
Hmm
#7886 posted by Preach [217.44.219.175] on 2008/10/26 15:45:48
I'm sure there's a way to disable it properly because I've gone running around exploring maps as scout. But I can't remember it, so use "mp_waitingforplayers_cancel 1" once you get into the game to start the round proper.
#7887 posted by wrath [85.226.234.209] on 2008/10/26 16:34:37
That just ends the round in a draw.
JPL
#7888 posted by Lunaran [68.115.32.96] on 2008/10/26 16:45:34
I don't mean to be that guy that answers questions by telling you your whole map is wrong, but what's the context where you need the player to be blocked by something he can't see? Is there an aesthetic/gameplay reason you can't bar his path with a cage or a door? Players won't be expecting clip brushes to disappear, because they don't do that ordinarily.
Preach / Lunaran
#7889 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 18:04:57
Preach:
OK, if it is not a bug, it is that I didn't understand how it works... sorry for this :P Anyway, I achieved the sound effect I was looking for, and this is the most important for me :D
Lunaran:
It is not me, it is Mike Woodham who want such effect :P Check post #7877
This "transparent clip wall" effect has been used in Travail start map, where the shambler protects the nightmare skill entry: there is a kind of shield that isolate the shambler and prevent the player from shambler attacks, and that looks like a transparent clip wall.. but once disabled, the shambler can run after the player, and you can walk through the shambler "cage"... Good example of transparent xlip wall there ;)
Lunaren
#7890 posted by JPL(Mike Woodham) [81.158.233.177] on 2008/10/26 18:06:39
Unfortunately (1), it's a hack to get around a hack.
Unfortunately(2). Willem's idea doesn't work - have two brushes touching and set them to be a func_wall. One of the brushes is textured with wall_texture and the other is clip: the clip brush still does not block the player. I
The player probably won't do what I don't want him to do but because I don't want him to do it, I don't him to be able to do it either.
#7891 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/26 18:14:23
Weird that it doesn't block the player. If you put a regular texture on it, is the wall there? If so, I'm stuck.
Mike
#7892 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 18:17:13
Stupid idea, but, you could do it with a func_door or a func_wall, setting alpha field to '0'..; It will just restrict engine use to GL enhanced engine (e.g, FitzQuake, aguirRe's GL Quake)
Mike... To Be Continued...
#7893 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/26 18:18:35
Errr alpha filed set transparency of the func_wall / func_door, then having a complete transparent brush, menas something blocking the player, but that can be removed ;)
Mike
#7894 posted by lurker [74.160.194.122] on 2008/10/26 18:54:24
Have you tried a Skip-textured func_wall with a skip removal utility ( http://celephais.net/board/view_th... )? I used that for the void Hell Knights in Schismatic Ablation (768_lurker.bsp). I think RPG did this earlier in one of his RPGSMSE maps.
Mike
#7895 posted by negke [82.83.21.55] on 2008/10/26 18:59:44
Use a func_ consisting of a clip brush surrounded by a solid-textured frame that is inside floor and walls. There have to be at least two proper brushes to determine the volume of the entity, everything within can be clip.
#7896 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/26 19:12:06
Ahh, so that's it! Needs real brushes to determine the bounds. OK, committing that to memory...
Bad Poly
#7897 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/26 21:05:53
Almost done with my map, and now I have this cave cellar with a brush diagonally.
It seems the monsters can see me as they start fighting me as soon as I'm in the apparent place. I checked the walls double but I can't get it sealed.
Strange because I copied it from the other side and there the monsters just wait as if that place is sealed.
Even three walls can't stop them??
Func_wall
#7898 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.233.177] on 2008/10/26 22:47:08
Thanks for the pointers.
Provided all sections of the func_wall are created at the same time i.e. make the brushes, have them touching, change the relevant (middle) one to the texture_clip, then make them a func_wall; then provided the clip is bounded on two opposite sides, it works.
Unfortunately, it is not removable.
#7899 posted by negke [82.82.165.150] on 2008/10/26 22:50:35
killtarget
JPL
#7900 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/10/27 02:59:57
The alpha trick needs "alpha" "-1", as 0 implies 1.
Lardarse
#7901 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/27 08:06:31
Oh, I was not aware of that feature, I thought it was working like r_wateralpha, that has value in between [0:1] range.
Negke
#7902 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.233.177] on 2008/10/27 23:30:52
Doh, it's all so simple when you know how. Thanks.
Vis
#7903 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/28 22:25:43
Full: 52.13%, Elapsed 47h59m, Left: 331h33m, Total: 379h33m, 12%
I've got patience, but 2days left and 14days to go is a big heap.
#7904 posted by Trinca [89.180.140.77] on 2008/10/28 23:12:23
MadFox u must reduce many things... map is not that big for so many vis time... :\ guess u got to many errors in map! tchak is much bigger and just take 2 hours...
something is wrong... i´ve got almost 8.000 brushes!
#7905 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/28 23:48:18
My current map has around 3,000 brushes and will VIS in under a minute. Seriously, turn some stuff into func_walls or something. :)
#7906 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/29 02:31:17
There are 318 errors, but for vising it never took that long. P4 3Ghz.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/QBSPL...
#7907 posted by Trinca [89.180.132.96] on 2008/10/29 06:30:23
that´s your problem MadFox u´ve got to many outplaced textures!!! you should fix then all...
I use to have these kid of problems... now in my maps i always have 0 errors!!! this is very important for the compiler...
will give you a pain in the ass for 2 or 3 days... but will compile real fast, you will see...
last map i try to compile with errors was wbase... i ~had also a lot of errors~becouse of rotating peaces of map and gave me many errors... took me two days to fix then all but after that was all pleasure!!! :)
#7908 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/10/29 10:20:51
That's a serious number of errors indicating lots of not-so-great geometry in your level. I would agree with Trinca here. Take a day or two and see if you can clean it up and get the error count reduced. I'll bet you speed up some after that since you won't have little cracks and slivers in the BSP anymore.
Indeed
#7909 posted by negke [82.82.184.188] on 2008/10/29 11:33:51
Doesn't a mixed face contents situation even prevent the map from loading? Shouldn't be too hard to get rid of those.
As for the "healing point.." warnings, you should check your map for HOMs and clipping issues (nonsolid brushes). Use gl_clear 1 and set r_clearcolor to something salient - BJP's engine defaults to a bright red, for example. This way you can easily spot problematic areas.
The issues are most likely caused by floating vertices or deformed brushes. If there are odd rock formations for example, it might be better to build them from triangle brushes, for they are more flexible than cubes.
MadFox
#7910 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/29 12:10:46
It is also generated by very tiny brushes, like clip brush used for ladder, rather than using func_ladder when available... Generally not a big problem...
Mixed face content is more problematic, as sky/water/etc... could then become solid on one face... (particularly sky)
And now go map ;)
Madfox
#7911 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.126.162] on 2008/10/29 12:18:20
Your need to simplify the map SOMEHOW.
Maybe make some things func_illusionaries. Anything you can make an illusionary will help.
You can make something an illusionary and put a clip brush over it so that hull 1/2 are simpler, and marksurfaces and clipnodes are less.
Your vis will go from 13 days left to 1300 days left in 650 days.
Remember - 90% of vis time happens in the last 10% of progress.
#7912 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.106] on 2008/10/29 12:20:46
Wasn't the map leaked and boxed? I'd really try to fix the leak, it will make compiling much faster, result in a more performant .bsp file and maybe even teach you new approaches or ideas. I always hate it but the feeling of having a "proper" bsp afterwards always makes up for it.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... has a lot of infos on leaks.
#7913 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/29 14:22:00
Oh, you might be right. I don't see a message in that error log about a "prt" file being written.
Is the map leaking? If so, drop everything, full stop, fix the leak. It'll compile WAY faster once you seal it.
#7914 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/29 14:23:20
Sorry, that sounds dumb. What I meant to say was ... is the map boxed because it has a leak? If so, remove the box and fix the leak. You're processing a ton of stuff that you don't need to be outside of the play area.
#7915 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/10/29 17:08:12
the map have many leaks i saw many of then when i beta!
Madfox u must fix then all...
Wad Repository
#7916 posted by Drew [76.75.125.174] on 2008/10/29 18:47:06
???
MadFox
#7917 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/29 19:29:00
Main problem with leaks is they are sometimes very difficult to solve... furthermore when you are not cleanly mapping (i.e poly and textures off-grid !!!).
The only way to verify you are not generating garbage is to compile a sealed map very often, in order to progress very safely... And when I say "sealed map", I mean a sealing done by huge boxes that occluded the non-finished areas... like "hole-fillers".
If it does not prevent from HOMs (it happens sometimes), it helps a lot anticipating issues before the latest complete map compilation with the tons of warnings/leaks/HOMs/whatever fucking problems you might have onto your final big map...
Believe me, it unfortunately slows down your mapping speed, but it gives more safety in map result...
You should consider make iterations of compilation using occluding huge boxes in order to isolate your leak problems, and solve them one by one... or more ;)
Good luck ;)
Wad Repository
#7918 posted by Drew [76.75.125.174] on 2008/10/29 19:48:38
And/or newest version of Wally?
Thanks
Oh
#7919 posted by Drew [76.75.125.174] on 2008/10/29 19:53:36
Haha, shit.
#7920 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/10/29 20:29:22
JPL speaks the truth, IMO. I regularly stop and throw in temporary walls to block off new passages and doorways in order to verify that I'm still in "valid map" land. If I can get a clean compile and VIS, I'll remove the blockers and carry on. But not before.
It's too painful to do a huge map and then get one of those oh-so-wonderful leaks where it doesn't generate a pointfile. Good luck fixing that! Grr...
Oh Yeah...
#7921 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2008/10/29 21:56:05
this is actually an interesting point. When I made my early maps (chaos, rubicon) i just left openings to the void, and it was no big deal. Since i used software quake, the grey looked nice anyway.
Then, switching to quake2, the compilers wouldn't even calculate lighting without a sealed map (if i recall correctly) so i got in the habit of capping off any doorways/hallways to unbuilt areas.
Now that habit stays with me in any engine. And it definitely helps reduce leaks.
Hmrphf
#7922 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/29 21:57:46
sorry for that, just cut the vising after three days random vacuumcleaner sound. I only had 400 houres to go.
I had to give the outside box a heap of 16, before it stopped leaking on b_models.
After I could seal the box compact to the map without leaking I thought it would be ok.
Fastvis when fine and there were no homs.
And to be serious, if I point to the so called bad area's I end upon somewhere between brushes I can't get a hold which one's ment.
Hm
#7923 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/10/29 22:00:44
I thought the corridor blocking was standard practice, but I remember now I learned it from HL1 and Q2.
Drew
#7924 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.68] on 2008/10/29 22:32:38
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Great to see you GOing to MAP!
Maybe...
#7925 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/30 08:19:33
.. it is time to open a Best Mapping Method Thread :P
Well
#7926 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/30 19:47:04
are there people who want to test a fastvised map, or is it against the rule to publish a not best vised map?
MadFox
#7927 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/30 21:27:24
For beta testing: I always send fastvised map.. fullvis is for final release ;)
#7928 posted by Trinca [89.180.187.35] on 2008/10/30 23:16:07
MadFox didn´t you like my advices? :|
i still can give you more feedback :(
but u dont love me anymore...
buaaaaaaaaaaa nobody loves me!!!
i will buy a iceberg near Vondur and stay there forever!!!
Oh Yeah
#7929 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/31 04:42:33
Trinca, I did apreeciate your advices, your demo was usefull. As far as you got kikked half. A lot of leaks you mentioned I couldn't find.
I did send Sielwolf a call but it got bounced.
So again, anyone interested in betatesting?
MadFox
#7930 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/10/31 09:54:11
Please send
Madfox
#7931 posted by spy [92.47.238.207] on 2008/10/31 10:36:21
my email in my profile, u can send it to me if you wish (send it with a pointfile)
On
#7932 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/10/31 18:07:01
its way.
#7933 posted by [98.124.1.158] on 2008/11/01 04:26:49
just got WC 3.3 - How can I adjust texture brightness? More importantly, I don't seem to be able to select brushes in the 3D view... any way to make that possible? Haven't even tried to compile yet...
Yeah
#7934 posted by Drew [98.124.1.158] on 2008/11/01 04:29:44
furthermore, I'm currently unable to apply textures... what the fuck?
Turn Off
#7935 posted by ijed [190.20.84.224] on 2008/11/01 05:17:26
3d accelartion in the options menu - thats some stupid shit default on that does nothing, as far as I can tell. Apart from fuck up moden PC's that is.
That's proably everthing solved, if not (texture correction) then ask Baker.
Eh
#7936 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.208.164.104] on 2008/11/01 06:49:21
I fail to see how hardware 3D acceleration is a bad thing, assuming of course that it works. :D
I had the same problem with Stoneless after a certain DirectX version (many years ago). I guess the obvious answer is that they were using functionality that changed or was removed in later versions.
It Doesn't
#7937 posted by ijed [190.20.67.81] on 2008/11/01 17:44:42
Not Being Able To Select Brushes
#7938 posted by Preach [81.153.25.134] on 2008/11/01 18:37:45
I had the same problem with brush selection in the 3d view, and had to downgrade my graphics driver by several versions to get it working again. I'm currently using omega drivers, version 5.12, which might not be the most recent version which work, but were the first ones I found which still did. It's also possible newer drivers fix the problem, it's just too much hassle for me to keep upgrading them to find out.
Nah WC 3.3 Need Hardware Acceleration.
#7939 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.102.24] on 2008/11/01 20:29:47
Adjust the texture brightness using your graphics cards setup menu.
In WC1.6 hardware acceleration is B00rked from my experience. Use Software
In WC3.3 hardware acceleration is fucked up. It works, you need it, but there is no option for adjusting the texture brightness, which is something that WC1.6 does have with its old slow shitty software renderer.
I use 3.3 for many much debated advantages, I like it and im comfortable with it, but I have had to play around with the settings on my graphics card (Nvidia Controll Center) to get a good brightness/contrast in Worldcraft. I mean how do you have your graphics card set up?
#7940 posted by Drew [98.124.1.158] on 2008/11/01 23:04:13
I'm pretty sure Preach nailed it. I've been having to start fitz in window mode and then go fullscreen since I updated my drivers. The brightness I can deal with, but not being able to use the 3d view to map is like not being able to use my hand to scratch my balls.
It Worked!
#7941 posted by Drew [98.124.1.158] on 2008/11/02 03:30:22
Thanks Preach!
ATI?
#7942 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.102.24] on 2008/11/02 05:44:04
Yep
#7943 posted by Drew [98.124.1.158] on 2008/11/02 06:02:25
.pak Files
#7944 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/03 07:39:32
I am trying to extract the files from .pak files but am getting a "sharing violation" error with pak explorer. Know of any programs that work in Vista? thx
St3ady
#7945 posted by erc [85.103.192.235] on 2008/11/03 10:48:11
That error pops up when the relevant game is running in the background, or you try to open the same .pak again.
#7946 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/03 17:43:16
heh i guess i didn't think that HLSW (a server listing program) would cause quake to be running in the background. Thanks erc! :)
Screenshots
#7947 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/03 17:55:24
whats a good way to take screenshots in fitz or darkplaces? I want to remove the hud and crosshair and be able to get a good angle, is there a way to go into observer mode in first person? or should i fly and notarget? is there a good .cfg for this? thx
Copied From My Own:
#7948 posted by erc [85.103.192.235] on 2008/11/03 18:10:24
Paste these three lines to your autoexec:
alias clean1 "echo Screenshot Mode -ON-; bf; r_drawviewmodel 0; crosshair 0; viewsize 120; fov 120; bind F1 clean2"
alias clean2 "echo Screenshot Mode -OFF-; bf; r_drawviewmodel 1; crosshair 1; viewsize 110; fov 90; bind F1 clean1"
bind "F1" "clean1"
..and change the key (f1) to your liking. The included commands are pretty obvious.
Dunno about an observer mode. I use notarget.
#7949 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/05 08:54:34
thx erc :)
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
#7950 posted by Spirit [80.171.96.156] on 2008/11/09 14:43:58
Damn Quake's 15 characters texture name limit.
Esc
#7951 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/12 08:09:52
anyone experience a weird occurrence where the escape button no longer functions in radiant, i rebooted in order to fix it
i have some other programs running at the same time: -Tread -Firefox -Photoshop -3dsmax
:/
#7952 posted by st3ady [96.244.141.208] on 2008/11/12 08:32:15
turns out it was photoshop on my vista 64:
http://thevistaforums.com/index.ph...
rawr
#7953 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/12 14:06:27
guys what are normal engine limits?
i´m afraid i execed mines :| i want the map to run in all engines...
Title: "tchak"
39521 faces
6648 brushes
1523 entities
------ FinishBSPFile ------
WriteBSPFile: maps/tchak.bsp
6482 planes 129640
29779 vertexes 357348
10407 nodes 249768
23801 texinfo 952040
23556 faces 471120
21575 clipnodes 172600
5040 leafs 141120
29584 marksurfaces 59168
110713 surfedges 442852
55427 edges 221708
89 textures 853920
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 128282
i´m close from normal limits in with paramenters? negke said me
marksurfaces were 32.000 somethiing... any other?
Well...
#7954 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/12 14:25:41
clipnodes: 32767
marksurfaces: 32767
You look like you're ok to me, Trinca.
Im not sure what the limit is for "faces".
The best way of checking your map is to load it in AguirRe's GLQuake, if you break any of the limits it will tell you on loading the map on the console.
Also try loading it in FitzQuake and vanilla winQuake. And if it loads in JoeQuake/TomazQuake....
If it loads then you're OK! :-)
#7955 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/12 14:27:33
23556 faces 471120
Actually I think this is fine - within limits.
Slave and Thehand are both closer to the limits than this map! ;P
Trinca - You can make it still bigger, or put some more secrets in!!! Yes please!
#7956 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/12 14:43:35
thks RickyT23 u rock
Secrets and Quads will not be few... and i still have a lot of stuff to had... so it will closer!!!
#7957 posted by negke [82.83.11.115] on 2008/11/12 15:09:08
QBSP-bjp prints warning messages if any of the bsp limits have been exceeded.
Read This...
#7958 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/11/12 15:50:25
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea...
Standard limits are listed at the end of this document..
Thanks aguirRe ;)
Qconverge WC 3.3 Texture Issues.
#7959 posted by Drew [216.168.101.235] on 2008/11/12 19:18:07
The Qconverge utility has a couple of limitations. It can't convert WADs with > 1024 textures or textures larger than 512 x 512.
That is a quote.
I am having issues because many of my favourite texture packs ( kingpin, halflife, etc.) are not being converted to .hlwad format.
I'm no good in tex mex, so I don't know how I would go about converting those files using that program (or any other).
What should I do?
Drew
#7960 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/12 19:57:15
1/ Export all files as bmp..
2/ Convert all bmp to Quake palette
3/ Ensure bmp file format is 16x16 multiple, and if not: resize
4/ Create a new .wad file
5/ Import all bmp
6/ Save you .wad file
Done :P
#7961 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.18] on 2008/11/12 22:02:32
3.5/ Make sure there are no unwanted fullbright pixels
Basestarter
#7962 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/12 22:43:48
me grewly out of crunching the last bites out of my scrutinized wrenched up map made me decide to finally screw it up better by straigthing it out from scratch made me looz the last fiftheen months spilling time that could have been spent much better if I only kept brushes on grid and it had never left me with this totally peace of big heap...
it is not your only worst fear, trinca.
Good
#7963 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/13 04:24:57
I remapped it, fullvis 37m, and 1 warning.
And most of all, I don't need a large fitbox!
MadFox
#7964 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/11/13 08:27:33
AAAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhh... you finally discovered the clean way of mapping ;)
TexMex
#7965 posted by negke [82.82.187.45] on 2008/11/13 08:31:42
can open WAD3 format but only save WAD2.
Besides, lol at telling someone to extract and convert some 3000 textures.
No idea how to get it running with WC33, there should a tool somewhere. In the meantime, maybe just make a smaller selection and convert that (working with so many textures at once is counterproductive anyway).
Negke
#7966 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/11/13 08:50:02
It can be spedd up using scripts you know...
:P
MadFox
#7967 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.18] on 2008/11/13 09:45:46
Congrats!
MadFox Congrats!
#7968 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/13 10:52:11
glad u took our advices!!!
:)=
is a pain in the ass but it worth it!
WC3.3 Method Is Very Easy
#7969 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/13 11:00:07
but you have to manually re-size any textures which are too big, or remove them from wad.
1: Install Bakers Quakeadapter.
2: Put your Quake1 WAD files in c:\program files\worldcraft\TEXTURES\
3: Start WC3.3 !
The util will open a win32 log window, saying which textures are too big and need to be re-sized.
The output HLWAD is left in the same directiry as your Quake tools, and has the same filename, just with the HLWAD extension!
I have had to do this quite a lot!
Good luck...
Grrrr.....
#7970 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/13 11:01:04
"Quake tools" = "Quake WADS"
Both Photoshop And Gimp
#7971 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.174] on 2008/11/13 18:46:45
can open WAD3 format but only save WAD2.
Besides, lol at telling someone to extract and convert some 3000 textures.
have auto execution tools, so it is not really a big deal to do that before you stick them all back into a WAD.
#7972 posted by Trinca [89.180.95.58] on 2008/11/14 00:40:21
Madfox a map with no leaks runs much faster! :)
no leaks and no warning!!!
http://trinca.quaddicted.com/tchak...
Yea
#7973 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/14 08:32:08
A leak disorders and quits the compiler,
so whatever it was, it was crap.
Warnings are more violent on the background,
and can cheat much harder in the end.
(like well compiling and for ever vising)
#7974 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/15 21:40:17
huge map you're exploring.
#7975 posted by Trinca [89.181.65.5] on 2008/11/15 22:15:44
not as much as warpc but is big yes
Trigger Enabling
#7976 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/16 18:58:12
I have a small problem: I'm mapping for Quoth2, and I would like to know if it is possible to activate a trigger_once using another trigger/button/whatever event...
I would like to make the triggers reacting to player only after a certain event. So is it possible to enable a trigger_once using its target field as example ?
I Used Invisible Buttons
#7977 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/16 19:50:50
using newskip.exe
Trigger Hack
#7978 posted by negke [88.70.24.130] on 2008/11/16 20:18:53
info_notnull (brush)
use trigger_once
touch SUB_Null
targetname
target
See progs.dat thread.
Yeah
#7979 posted by Preach [81.152.233.130] on 2008/11/16 21:04:21
Negke describes the only way to do it in the current version. It's not actually a bad way of doing it, the only thing that I feel is slightly dodgy about it is that the entity never ends up with the correct classname, but it's unavoidable. A more sophisticated method of doing this kind of thing(activating triggers /entities when other events fire) will be in the next version of Quoth, but that's a long way off.
I was hoping to be able to finish this with a short snippet of code to add to a clear quake source, which would make the "simplest way" work with all triggers. Sadly this isn't really possible, the only function which is called on all triggers is InitTrigger, but you can't do enough with it. It doesn't know what function calls it, so you'd need to hide all the possibly relevant fields like touch/use/health/etc, and create a use function
which restores all of these values. But even then you get ruined by trigger_teleport, which overwrites the "use" field after the call to InitTrigger. Bah!
RickyT23 / Negke / Preach
#7980 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/16 21:49:09
RickyT23: I'm using metlslime skip for glasses, and I'm not sure it will help me with my issue :P
OKnegke: I'm not sure to clearly understand, well, I'll give it a try, and I will have a look in te progs.dat thread in anyway..
Preach: Thanks for the infos... ;)
So globally except the method negke described, there's no other way to do what I would like... or I will have to wait for Quoth3 :P
Anyway, thanks alot for the help: you rock !
On How It Works (the Nth In A Series Of Overly Long Posts By Preach)
#7981 posted by Preach [81.152.233.130] on 2008/11/16 23:52:21
I think it's about time there was a good post on why that particular info_notnull trick works, because it's a bit complicated why you move the classname to the use field to make it work.
What is a classname?
The classname field is a qc field which stores a string. From the point of view of the QC, it isn't any different to the message field. There is only one thing which is special about classname, which happens when the map starts.
When the engine loads a map, one of the last things it does is load the list of entities, which looks a little like this:
...
{
"classname" "misc_fireball"
"delay" "15"
"target" "drawtrap"
"targetname" "draw"
"origin" "-352 -1168 160"
"use" "trigger_once"
"model" "*2"
}
...
You can see that all the fields you enter are stored as pairs of keys and values. What the quake engine does for each one of those entries is:
1. Creates a new entity with all of it's fields set to 0.
2. Fills in any of the fields listed in between the {...} with the value given.
3. Sets the "self" entity in the QC code to be this newly formed entity.
4. (this is the important bit) Searches for a function in the qc code with the same name as the classname of the entity, and then runs that function.
The function with the same name as an entity's classname is usually called the class "spawn function". There is technically nothing special about the QC in a "spawn function" - any valid function name is allowed as a classname. But usually "spawn functions" are designed to do important things to "self", like making it solid, giving it an appropriate model, and starting the ai functions in the case of a monster.
What is the use field?
In the example misc_fireball entity above we see the use key has been added. It looks like the use key follows the same format as the classname key, but this is misleading. In QC, use describes a function, not a string. When the quake engine carries out step 2 on the use key, it looks for a function whose name matches that string. Once it finds that function, it stores the function location for the QC and discards the string.
In the (very contrived) example entity I have invented above, use is set to "trigger_once". We are used to trigger_once being a classname, but as we learnt above classnames are always the name of a function. So when we trigger the event "draw", the QC finds every entity with a targetname of "draw". It then calls the function stored in use.
In this case, this gives the entity all the properties of a trigger_once, on top of whatever fields were filled out when it became a misc_fireball.
The thing to remember is that running the function doesn't change it's classname to trigger_once. Sometimes the classname matters (see http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... for the classic example). However, I can assure you that trigger_once is not like that, the classname is never checked once the entity is spawned. So the hack is in fact safe.
What is an info_notnull?
So why are all the hacks obsessed with info_notnull? Well, it's because info_notnull is an entirely empty "spawn function", it does nothing to the entity at all. One of the challenges of making entity hacks is finding a function which does just enough. If you make the classname "trigger_multiple" then it does all the work of making a trigger for you. But that function also overwrites any custom value for use or th_die(a function like use, but called when you kill an entity). Sometimes doing nothing is exactly what you want, in which case you choose info_notnull.
Bringing it all back home
So using all that knowledge, we create a brush based entity with these fields:
{
"classname" "info_notnull" //do nothing on spawn
"use" "trigger_once" //do what the spawn function for trigger once does once we fire the event
"target" "spawn01" //the event which makes use happen
"targetname" "newevent" //what the trigger sets off
}
Hope that was enlightening.
ps: The difference between classname and use is why mutliple-spawning entities in hipnotic/quoth/quake-mods always have two fields you need to fill out: spawnclassname and spawnfunction. The former is a string which is copied to classname, the latter is a function field which is called to replicate the engine function of looking up the classname function. You could of course mess with the program by setting the spawnfunction to monster_ogre and the spawnclassname to monster_shambler
Extra Credit Assignment: describe what you would see if you did set "spawnfunction" "monster_ogre" and "spawnclassname" "monster_shambler". Creating a test map to find out is cheating...
#7982 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/17 02:52:50
"Hope that was enlightening. "
It really, really was. Thanks a ton for those overly long posts, Preach. They are ridiculously enlightening and useful.
I'll Hazard A Guess
#7983 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/11/17 04:04:28
The monster will function as an ogre, except that it will infight with orges and not infight with shamblers. It will also take half damage from explosions, which is probably just as well, as it will be somewhat careless about how he shoots his grenades...
Ok, Just Tried It
#7984 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/11/17 04:58:34
And I forgot something...
Yeah
#7985 posted by Preach [217.44.221.101] on 2008/11/17 11:44:50
I'd say you got all the important differences, the shambler alert sound and death messages are also used(although the former isn't precached). But yeah, very good work!
Preach
#7986 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/11/17 13:27:49
The explanation is really complete and detailed, but I'm still not sure how to implement it: Would you please consider to provide me a short and simple map example (.map / .bsp) that would enlight my spoor mapping skill...
#7987 posted by negke [88.70.20.201] on 2008/11/17 21:41:35
It's a info_notnull brush entity. Just create a regular trigger and change the classname field.
Preach
#7988 posted by negke [88.70.20.201] on 2008/11/17 21:46:05
Suggestion for Quoth3: customizable light styles, e.g. with "message" "abcdedcba", if that's easily feasible.
Preach
#7989 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/17 22:10:35
Forget the example, I think I understood the idea thank to negke precision, I missed this important point: The info_notnull shall be a brush !
Thanks a lot for your support guys ! You rock !
Ok!
#7990 posted by Preach [217.44.221.101] on 2008/11/17 22:25:37
Explore the world of Fodrian! Operate arcane machinery! Defeat your foes to earn your right to return! Source .map included.
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
Arrgh
#7991 posted by Preach [217.44.221.101] on 2008/11/17 22:38:44
Oh well, it's a nice pretty map for the next person who asks.
re: Custom light styles. Yeah, that's possible. The best way I can see to do it is have an info_lightstyle where you set style to some number between 20 and 31(32 onwards are reserved for switchable styles, and for purposes of this example I'm reserving 14 to 19 for potential quoth standard light styles) and message to the custom light style. Then you just give any lights you want the corresponding style.
It should also be possible to make these entities targetable. If one was given a targetname, then it would not define the light style when it spawns, but instead when it is triggered. This would allow for dynamic control of light styles, and could possibly be extended to the regular defined styles(although it would still be a bad idea to let styles above 32 be controlled in this way). Possibilities this would open up include:
Switchable flickering lights.
Event triggered lightning flashes across a level.
Day to night transition(if you can figure out what to do about the sky).
Pretty Map Indeed
#7992 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.224] on 2008/11/18 09:44:03
Day to night transition(if you can figure out what to do about the sky).
Nothing easier than that. Quoth's trigger_command with "loadsky skybox_\n". Just do it while the player does not see the sky. It will give a short load freeze though.
More engines need Ogg Vorbis soundtrack support and then also allow the "cd <command>" commands to control it. trigger_command with "cd play 123\n" is just great.
It would be great if the information that \n is needed would be added to the Quoth documentation, I just now remembered and it (once again) gave me a headache yesterday. ;)
#7993 posted by negke [88.70.4.57] on 2008/11/18 10:06:41
It would be great if all 25% of missing information would be added to the Quoth documentation as well.
Schaweet
#7994 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.224] on 2008/11/18 11:55:44
Just needs func_rain:
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/ko...
Sky
#7995 posted by Preach [217.44.218.152] on 2008/11/18 12:16:59
Yeah, changing the skybox works until you have to worry about engines which don't have skyboxes! I think a daytime sky texture with a non-solid func_ brush covered in scaled up black texture which is removed on daybreak/spawned for nightfall is the way to go. I think that's what we did for travail, anyway...
Terrainmap
#7996 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/19 23:39:17
I'm trying a terrain map with brushes in shape of triangles.
They all have one toppoint en three corners.
As I managed to get them well fit without warnings I've come to the lightning problem.
Most of the triangles get a bad dark shape, as others come through well.
I've read aguire's tool tips but I can't find a way to avoid them.
#7997 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/20 00:02:16
I've seen that as well. I think it's just that the BSP compiler can't handle it. I've never had a ton of success with triangular terrain. Even if it lights correctly and looks good, you still get weird collision snags.
As For That
#7998 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/20 01:31:40
ive terrain-mapped using triangles quite a lot in Quake, (well since slave anyway):
if you get errors in hull 1 (clipping errors) try making the area simpler - make the bad "join" 0, 90, 180 or 270 degrees in a straight line.
Also dont make the triangles too small.
And try to stick to a 16x16 grid at the smallest.
All seem to help me!
Hope this helps.
Also try Tyrlite to do the lighting...
Errorshades
#7999 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/20 02:28:21
Do your triangles have 4 or 6 corners?
I used primary geocomponents for Quark, triangle brushes of width 6x 64, and I have no warnings, all brushes aligned within 0.1 and integer centers.
First I tried the light with wait function as it gives a more egal lightning. But it looks as if the area's on the floor give the most shade.
If I use brushes with a butom, ie. 7 corners the effect seems less.
Both versions of Tyrlight reach the same results.
6 Corners
#8000 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/20 02:45:14
64 units deep. when it was flat. all aligned to 1 unit. the triangles are on the horizontal axis.
They look like three-sided triangles when you look at them from the top down.
the whole effect can be transposed onto another axis too, though.
Well
#8001 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/20 03:10:18
I tried with 4 corners, but it seems then the floorcount in the lightning starts to behave like _not lighted from downside_ what creates the blackouts.
With 6 corners this floorcount is out of order, and they indeed light better.
Thanks for your answer!
MadFox
#8002 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2008/11/20 08:27:37
Use Nemesis's terrain generator... and import the resulting .map file. Change the texture and you are done ;)
Yes
#8003 posted by Spirit [213.39.169.21] on 2008/11/20 10:42:08
QuArK's terrain thing is very very VERY bad.
Nemesis' tool is much better:
http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/i...
Tutorials: http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/i...
#8004 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/20 11:00:13
One small question guys.
"18 entities inhibited" is this lights in walls?
#8005 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/20 11:36:04
MadFox
Try to keep the bounding boxes of the terrain triangle polys to 16 unit boundaries. The lightmaps, I believe, are at a 16:1 resolution so if you deviate from that you could end up with weird black splotches.
#8006 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/20 12:27:17
ops, guess i got it! is the skills settings :|
Let's Do Some VIS Benchmarking.
#8007 posted by Spirit [213.39.169.21] on 2008/11/20 17:49:05
BSP and Light are the quick tools where VIS can take a "while" to complete. I am kinda interested how the VIS speed differs on different machines, so I prepared some stuff:
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/be...
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/be...
Put these two into the same directory and run vis bench_koohoo. Then post the time it took here, including your machine's specs (CPU and RAM would be the interesting bits I guess). If you are not using aguirRe's latest Vis ( http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ ) please also mention that (and make sure to use level 4).
It should take about 20-30 minutes, probably much less. Try not to do anything else during that time on your PC. Just browsing around on the internet added 10% to my vis time.
Thanks to Vondur for his steamy swampy map.
My results:
Pentium-M 1.2GHz, 2GB Ram (400MHz I think), Debian Lenny.
Through Wine: 18:32
gb's port: 18:02
Pentium III-M(?) 1GHz, 256MB Ram, Windows XP
Vis: 25:49
Don't forget to use the original .bsp file if you are doing several runs (which might be a good idea).
I'm Really Interested To Hear What Willems Multi Core
#8008 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/20 17:55:39
vis tool does with this....
Ill post some results in a while...
#8009 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/11/20 18:07:14
I won't be able to try until the morning at the earliest. I'll try to remember though.
#8010 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/20 19:05:52
OK - heres my effort - XP32 C2D 6750 @ 2.66 GHz (2 cores in processor, but I guess it only used one...?)
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\Rick>cd c:\quake\id1\maps
C:\Quake\Id1\maps>vis bench_koohoo
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
Base: 0.0%, Elapsed: 0:00
Base: 100.0%, Elapsed: 0:05
Full: 0.0%, Elapsed: 0:00
Full: 30.4%, Elapsed: 0:10
Full: 35.7%, Elapsed: 0:20, Left: 2:04, Total: 2:24, 13%
Full: 38.1%, Elapsed: 0:30, Left: 2:41, Total: 3:11, 15%
Full: 41.4%, Elapsed: 0:40, Left: 3:23, Total: 4:03, 16%
Full: 43.5%, Elapsed: 0:50, Left: 3:36, Total: 4:26, 18%
Full: 45.2%, Elapsed: 1:00, Left: 3:54, Total: 4:54, 20%
Full: 47.0%, Elapsed: 1:10, Left: 4:48, Total: 5:58, 19%
Full: 48.7%, Elapsed: 1:20, Left: 4:59, Total: 6:19, 21%
Full: 50.8%, Elapsed: 1:30, Left: 4:21, Total: 5:51, 25%
Full: 52.9%, Elapsed: 1:40, Left: 3:56, Total: 5:36, 29%
Full: 53.9%, Elapsed: 1:51, Left: 4:39, Total: 6:30, 28%
Full: 55.1%, Elapsed: 2:01, Left: 5:28, Total: 7:29, 27%
Full: 56.5%, Elapsed: 2:11, Left: 6:21, Total: 8:32, 25%
Full: 58.1%, Elapsed: 2:21, Left: 4:56, Total: 7:17, 32%
Full: 59.1%, Elapsed: 2:32, Left: 5:22, Total: 7:54, 32%
Full: 60.2%, Elapsed: 2:42, Left: 5:36, Total: 8:18, 32%
Full: 61.2%, Elapsed: 2:56, Left: 7:15, Total: 10:11, 28%
Full: 62.6%, Elapsed: 3:06, Left: 5:49, Total: 8:55, 34%
Full: 63.8%, Elapsed: 3:16, Left: 5:30, Total: 8:46, 37%
Full: 64.8%, Elapsed: 3:26, Left: 4:49, Total: 8:15, 41%
Full: 66.4%, Elapsed: 3:36, Left: 4:24, Total: 8:00, 45%
Full: 67.4%, Elapsed: 3:46, Left: 4:36, Total: 8:22, 44%
Full: 68.4%, Elapsed: 3:57, Left: 4:37, Total: 8:34, 46%
Full: 69.7%, Elapsed: 4:07, Left: 4:50, Total: 8:57, 45%
Full: 71.2%, Elapsed: 4:17, Left: 3:55, Total: 8:12, 52%
Full: 72.2%, Elapsed: 4:27, Left: 3:41, Total: 8:08, 54%
Full: 73.7%, Elapsed: 4:37, Left: 3:17, Total: 7:54, 58%
Full: 75.0%, Elapsed: 4:47, Left: 3:21, Total: 8:08, 58%
Full: 76.5%, Elapsed: 4:57, Left: 2:43, Total: 7:40, 64%
Full: 77.7%, Elapsed: 5:07, Left: 2:47, Total: 7:54, 64%
Full: 79.3%, Elapsed: 5:18, Left: 2:23, Total: 7:41, 68%
Full: 80.7%, Elapsed: 5:28, Left: 2:18, Total: 7:46, 70%
Full: 83.0%, Elapsed: 5:38, Left: 1:37, Total: 7:15, 77%
Full: 84.7%, Elapsed: 5:48, Left: 1:25, Total: 7:13, 80%
Full: 86.0%, Elapsed: 5:58, Left: 1:18, Total: 7:16, 82%
Full: 87.1%, Elapsed: 6:08, Left: 1:32, Total: 7:40, 79%
Full: 89.3%, Elapsed: 6:18, Left: 1:09, Total: 7:27, 84%
Full: 91.2%, Elapsed: 6:28, Left: 0:51, Total: 7:19, 88%
Full: 93.1%, Elapsed: 6:38, Left: 0:34, Total: 7:12, 92%
Full: 94.5%, Elapsed: 6:48, Left: 0:31, Total: 7:19, 92%
Full: 95.6%, Elapsed: 6:58, Left: 0:29, Total: 7:27, 93%
Full: 96.9%, Elapsed: 7:08, Left: 0:25, Total: 7:33, 94%
Full: 97.9%, Elapsed: 7:18, Left: 0:18, Total: 7:36, 96%
Full: 99.5%, Elapsed: 7:28, Left: 0:03, Total: 7:31, 99%
Full: 100.0%, Elapsed: 7:31, Left: 0:00, Total: 7:31, 100%
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 7:38
C:\Quake\Id1\maps>
#8011 posted by negke [88.70.123.201] on 2008/11/20 19:18:43
Could you please post it again with -verbose
Ha Ha Funny Bastard
#8012 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/20 19:24:30
#8013 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/21 01:57:28
My Macbook Pro is reporting 8:25. It's a dual core 2.33 GHz with 2GB RAM. Kind of an older machine.
Trinca
#8014 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/11/21 06:41:42
Yeah, it's skill settings and the NOT_DM spawnflag (2048)
Left 4 Dead Mapping
#8015 posted by thanatwork [221.244.26.90] on 2008/11/21 08:36:36
Since this game is fun to play and looks like it will be a lot of fun to map for, I was thinking of getting started sometime soon. Does anyone have any info about how to map for it? Since it just came out there doesn't seem to be a lot of info right now. Has anyone got the SDK to work with L4D assets yet? Anyone else thinking of making a map?
#8016 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/21 15:46:24
Spirit
Xp SP2 P4 2.8 512 RAM
---- Vis 2.30 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 14:02
State time : 0:01
Heh, Your Times Are Mean Compared To Mine
#8017 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.121] on 2008/11/21 18:55:45
I was so annoyed by searching "that file" so often that I just created http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/
Suggestions and links to more tools are very welcome.
(And now I just realised I should make the wads integrated like that too.)
Oops
#8018 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.121] on 2008/11/21 19:04:45
I am still uploading tools...
Spirit
#8019 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/21 21:04:52
Nemesis' terrain generator
GenSurf
PAK Explorer
TexMex
WinPack
Koohoo - Vistest
#8020 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/21 23:26:27
---- Vis 2.30 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: ./maps/bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 11:07
State time : 0:01
P4 3.4 Ghz - WinXp - 1024 RAM
Bench_Koohoo Vis
#8021 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2008/11/22 00:22:43
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 13:29
State time : 0:01
Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz HT, 2.5 Gigs of RAM, Windows Vista Home Premium.
Trains
#8022 posted by Drew [76.75.67.170] on 2008/11/22 06:27:09
Hey, I've pretty much never used trains. Or at least, very little, and not for a long time. I want to have a train start at a point, then, when triggered by a trigger_multiple, go on a path, and then return to its original point until triggered once more. How should I set that up? I'm sure it's simple enough but it doesn't seem to work as planned.
Bench_koohoo - Vis Test
#8023 posted by spy [92.47.245.189] on 2008/11/22 06:56:20
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 14:57
State time : 0:01
P4 2.4, 768mb ram, xp sp2
JPL
#8024 posted by Spirit [213.39.173.48] on 2008/11/22 10:15:07
Cheers!
Can't find or download GenSurf and WinPack. Do you have working links? GenSurf is hosted at stupid atomicgamer and the links are dead.
Spirit
#8025 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/22 11:05:40
I will send you the files through email: both do not need installers ;)
If I remeber well, WinPack allow to dive into Packs, but not to create them (not like PakExplorer...).. and GenSurf is weird to use.. I never used it for my maps, just for tests, and I personnaly prefer Nemesis' tool...
Drew
#8026 posted by Preach [81.152.234.17] on 2008/11/22 16:07:54
Such a setup is not actually possible in standard quake, at least not allowing the sequence to be retriggered an indefinite number of times. You would have to use a custom mod like hipnotic or custents or quoth to do so.
Train Line
#8027 posted by Preach [81.152.234.17] on 2008/11/22 16:31:34
On a related note, I've got a question about func_rotate_train from the hipnotic source code....yeah, that monster.
Normally to make a func_rotate_train rotate to a specific angle on arrival at a point, you would set the second spawnflag on the destination path_rotate, and then set "angles" on that entity to the desired angle.
However, suppose you want the func_rotate_train to "rotate in place", that is reach a path_rotate, then rotate without also moving anywhere, before moving to another waypoint once the rotation completes.
You hit a problem: to do this you have to put the second waypoint(the one containing the rotation instruction) in the same location as first one. The result of this (which I can understand after reading the code) is that the train doesn't stay still to complete the rotation, it in fact completes the rotation as it travels to the third waypoint.
So my question: is there another way of setting up the path_rotates to facilitate this kind of motion(func_train_rotating a fixed arc at a waypoint without moving otherwise)? Or is it an oversight in the code which deserves fixing? A few "Preach, I have no bleeding idea" replies would assure me it's the latter. Alternatively, convince me that even if there is another way of doing it, the fact that the setup I describe does not work is a bug to be fixed.
#8028 posted by rudl [85.126.193.66] on 2008/11/22 19:30:16
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: bench_koohoo.bsp
3381 portalleafs
9565 numportals
testlevel = 4
average leafs visible: 163
max leafs visible: 424 near (2496 1024 128)
c_chains: 41037083
visdatasize: 146 kb compressed from 1396 kb
Elapsed time : 7:29
AMD X2 6000+
2BG ram @667Mhz 5-5-5-21 cr2 XD )
Vista32
So whos got the longest penis
Ubuntu 8.10 Is 1 Second Slower
#8029 posted by rudl [85.126.193.66] on 2008/11/22 20:19:27
Elapsed time : 7:30
#8030 posted by rudl [85.126.193.66] on 2008/11/22 20:35:09
sorry
Vista32:
7:29
Ubuntu+wine is
7:30
gbs port is
7:38
unexpected result
Func_rotate
#8031 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/22 20:51:29
I've been working with the path_rotate from custents and experienced the same odd behaviour.
I have a "doombird" which is linked to a rotate_object.
Then there are 24 cubes that act as func_movewall ( one doesn't work as it needs corners to know how to turn.)
An info_rotate to trigger and a func_rotate_train to inform.
All goes well, but as a mentioned earlier, there's always one point that the finc_rotate will counter act anti clockwise. I asked what it could be and then it worked with the 375 degrees function. But I couldn't override that nasty counterpart. So I didn't ask further for the donkey I am.
I had a startpoint on the same place as the endpoint.
func_rotate acts with and without angle.
With angle it turns the func_rotate and without it leads to the next angle.
Still by putting in a func_rotate between the end and the start without angle (or with) couldn´t make the func_rotate correct its position.
I have much ideas but I can't put humpty dumpty back again.
Maybe I should use the hipnotic one.
Oh... Okay
#8032 posted by Drew [98.124.8.198] on 2008/11/23 04:29:09
How could that scenario be set up in Quoth?
thanks again.
So Whos Got The Longest Penis
#8033 posted by spy [92.46.16.26] on 2008/11/23 09:11:48
I guess John Holmes? :))))
Nay, Probably This Dude
#8034 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.41] on 2008/11/23 10:54:22
http://www.moviegoods.com/movie_po...
Wait For It...
#8035 posted by Preach [86.156.58.65] on 2008/11/23 12:11:14
Give the path_corner you want it to stop at a wait value of -1 (unlike most entities of this kind, not all negative numbers will suffice, -1 is the only value which will work). Then retrigger the func_train with it's original targetname.
MadFox
#8036 posted by Preach [86.156.58.65] on 2008/11/23 20:20:22
Ok, I'm a little further along with my func_rotate_train testmap, for now I'm just slightly separating the waypoints in space so the bug I described is not an issue. I've run into the problem you describe, that things rotate the "long way round".
Now, I don't think that this is a bug as such. The entity should not be required to take the shortest rotation, because sometimes the long way might be the desirable path, and there's no need to require multiple path_rotates for that. What you need to do is add/subtract 360 degrees to the offending target angle.
As an example, you might have three path_corners with angles:
'90 0 0'
'180 0 0'
'270 0 0'
and you want to make the fourth
'0 0 0' to get it facing the way it began. But if you do that then it will turn the long way round. So then you try
'360 0 0'
and it works.
Until you try to make it a loop, rather than a single motion. Then you run into the same problem between the '360 0 0' and the '90 0 0' path_corner. This is a bit more of a problem, but I have devised a way to make it work...
download http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
The essential trick of the map is that from rampath4-rampath6 the rotation is not controlled by the "angles" key, but instead by the "rotate" key, which sets a rotation rate. It does this at the corner where usually the rotation would reach the 360 degree mark. The "rotate" key handles this point more elegantly than the "angles" method does.
Spawnflag 32 is used so that "speed" specifies a 0.1 second travetime rather than 0.1 unit speed travel. This is combined with setting rotate to '0 200 0', to ensure 20 degrees are rotated on each of those segments, enough to put the rotation back into the positive quadrant. If you look closely this actually constitutes a speed-up on that corner, further tweaking of the values could control that.
Func_rotate
#8037 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/23 22:10:10
thanks for your reply, Preach!
I've been working on the custents and it seems there's a way to get rid of this strange counter clock effekt.
For sofar the doombird turns wrong the first time, everthen it just goes right?!
I'm not familiar with this strange outcome, but it seems a practical way of going.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/dmbir...
Drew - take a look at the map, it might be the first part you're looking for. (without the re-ignition of the button)
Spy
#8038 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/23 22:15:54
my maptester had such a long startpoint betatesting it overgrew its "whatever" length...
MadFox
#8039 posted by spy [82.200.246.238] on 2008/11/24 03:27:25
sorry, i will...
Spy
#8040 posted by MadFox [84.26.60.178] on 2008/11/24 09:00:54
don't try! I already recompiled the map, because it was such a perfect mess,
it killed my real vis time on 5 days.
It had no hurry, so don't worry.
Better to serve you a perfekt map!
Making U-Turns
#8041 posted by Preach [86.148.8.237] on 2008/11/24 14:16:35
Ok, I'm gonna go back on some of the stuff I posted last time about the func_rotate_train. It turns out there's a function in the hipsubs.qc file which does normalise the angles of the rotation. I think the problem is that 360 is an edge case which is treated badly. The function looks like
while( ang_x > 360 )
{
ang_x = ang_x - 360;
}
while( ang_x < 0 )
{
ang_x = ang_x + 360;
}
...
This function is meant to make it so that the multivalued angles are all mapped to a single value. However, '0 0 0' and '0 360 0' both represent the same angle, but are also both left unchanged by the function. Making the function look like:
while( ang_x >= 360 )
{
ang_x = ang_x - 360;
}
while( ang_x < 0 )
{
ang_x = ang_x + 360;
}
...
will make it so that each angle has a single representation. Now the simple setup of 4 path_rotates with:
'0 90 0'
'0 180 0'
'0 270 0'
'0 360 0'
will work as you'd imagine.
The way I think the func_rotate_train works is this: while the train is rotating, no normalisation of angles occurs and so the train will rotate in full from the angle it starts at to the one specified. Once the train arrives, the angles on the train(but not the path_rotate) are then normalised to between 0 and 360.
So, as a quick challenge, what happens if you set the angles on the path_rotates to:
'0 450 0'
'0 540 0'
'0 630 0'
'0 720 0'
once the bug is fixed? How about before the bug is fixed?
#8042 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/24 15:10:54
guy i´m getting this error and crash joequake when i go to certan zone!
==================================...
Host_Error: SOLID_BSP with a non-bsp model
==================================...
any idear?
fuck :\ so close to finish this bastard and now show up errors like this :(
Corrupted Map
#8043 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/11/24 15:32:45
Looks to be.
Probably removed a door or something but it left behind an invisible point entity holding the door's info.
Your editor hopefully has a method built in to find it, else not you can trawl through the map file to try and find it with notepad++ though that'll be a frustrating way to find it.
WC3.3 Can Do It
#8044 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/24 15:46:34
Tools -> check for errors;
scroll down to the error "entity with no brush info" or whatever;
click it, click "go to error" (and the x/y view will pan to the center of the map)
close the dialogue then finally Press DELETE.
:)
#8045 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2008/11/24 15:49:12
thks guys
was a func_plat :\ i had with no brush becouse i delete all the underground seccion that was made :\
might be in this week scrap speedmap event :)
GTKR 1.5 And Quake 1
#8046 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/27 09:32:38
hey guys...
anyone have a clue as to how to set up GTKR 1.5 for Quake 1 mapping? I'm having problems getting it to set up textures and pointfiles.
damn this was so much easier years ago with qED... :(
thx.
GTKR For Newbs
#8047 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/11/27 09:53:59
Put the wad files in your id1 folder. Make sure that GTKR knows where your Quake folder is. Make sure that the pointfile actually exists, and is in the same folder as the map file.
Preach, Willem, Anyone..... Necros?
#8048 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/27 15:50:42
Is there an info_notnull hack or suchlike to allow "statue" type effects, using a single frame of animation from a monster/player model?
i.e. I could have the body of a creature in a map?
Yes
#8049 posted by Preach [217.44.221.203] on 2008/11/27 15:57:27
n/t
Ok, Ok...
#8050 posted by Preach [217.44.221.203] on 2008/11/27 16:05:54
The traditional way to do it is to create a point entity with:
"classname" "func_illusionary"
"model" "progs/ogre.mdl"
"frame" "23"
You need to make sure that this entity is lower down the list of entities than at least one monster_ogre entity, otherwise the model will not be precached, and you'll get an error.
Ahah!
#8051 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/11/27 16:20:11
Thanks Preach!
So if I wanted to put a player model in I would use player.mdl (or whatever it is) and the precaching thing wouldn't matter because player is always edict no. 1?
Yup
#8052 posted by Preach [217.44.221.203] on 2008/11/27 16:49:29
In actual fact, the player model is precached even earlier, as soon as the world spawns. And I seem to remember that even if the qc doesn't precache it, the engine requires the model to be there...So yeah, the player model is nice and safe.
Thx
#8053 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/27 19:50:46
thanks, Lardarse.
#8054 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/27 23:44:03
Hah, and I wrote a bunch of QuakeC to support corpses for "White Room". Damn it!
The Corpse And The Three Point Clipper
#8055 posted by Preach [217.44.221.203] on 2008/11/28 01:52:28
It's always best to make proper classes for those kinds of things, you don't have to worry about the entity list order, and it's a bit easier to manage the map when things have suggestive classnames.
I've got a light tool question of my own now. I was under the impression that if you gave any entity a "light" key with non-zero value and a "targetname" of some sort, then everything with that targetname would get a switchable lightstyle. However, I've just given this a go with a custom class of entity and the lights are given style 0, which is a bit problematic when you come to toggle them. I can manually set the style to something else on the entity, and things work, but if I set that to 32, and 32 gets allocated elsewhere I'm in trouble.
So my main question is how light.exe decides what is a switchable lightstyle when it comes to custom entities, and if there's a way to deal with this. Any offers?
#8056 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/11/28 11:41:00
"It's always best to make proper classes for those kinds of things, you don't have to worry about the entity list order, and it's a bit easier to manage the map when things have suggestive classnames. "
Well, the way I did it was to add a new spawn flag called "SF_CORPSE" (or something like that). Anything monster with that flag set would spawn in, assume a random death pose and go into a dead state so it didn't take up processor time.
It worked well enough and was definitely manageable. I can see your point about the separate classes though.
Mapobjects
#8057 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/11/28 13:48:50
Are definitely underused in Quake - the main problem being model precaches. Corpses aren't a problem because they'll be cached anyway since its almost a given that there's a living version in the map.
More Lighting Woe
#8058 posted by Preach [81.152.239.217] on 2008/11/28 17:08:57
Further to my post about the switchable lights, I've managed to narrow the problem down to occuring with aguirre's light.exe but not arghlite.exe.
When I give these entities a classname of "light" then they behave as regular switching lights, and are given their own lightstyle. Once I change the classname to "light_tubelight", arghlite treats them no differently, which is what I expect. But aguirre's light stops giving them a unique lightstyle, which causes them to turn off all the lights in the level when they get triggered.
It seems like it's filtering entities by classname before deciding whether the entity in question needs a unique lightstyle. So has anybody run into this, and is there a way to disable this with a command line switch or something?
Compilers
#8059 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/28 22:27:21
Are there any decent front end compilers for Quake similar to Eddi's GUI or Nem's Batch compiler for HL?
Er....
#8060 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/11/28 22:35:18
Command Prompt + AguirRe's txqbsp. Its fast, stable and VERY EASY TO USE!!!
(Not as far as I know)
Thanks
#8061 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/29 00:28:59
I'm not sure why but there is **** for Q1 support docs for GTKR 1.5.0. I can't seem to get the compilers configured right, it seems to want to default to Q3 compilers. There's that and Zerowing's gamepacks link is a 404, and there's nothing about how to get GTKR configured for Quake 1. This is frustrating.
Nm
#8062 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/29 01:04:56
forget it, i just forgot had to remake the .game file. all good. thx for hearing my rant.
Quake1
#8063 posted by ijed [190.20.104.147] on 2008/11/29 04:30:26
Is a bit like that, Google just throws up lots pages of dead links.
Here's the main mapping place, Inside3d for modding and if there's a dedicated modeling forum then someone let me know.
I will say that there's a lot less timewasters in Quake1. Snarky fuckers in a higher percentage, but there you go.
Gtkr 1.5.0 And Quake1
#8064 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/29 09:33:32
Well I'm now at a loss. I think I need to make a new default_build_menu.xml because the one that comes with 1.5.0 is for Quake 3. I have no idea where to go with this... Google pretty much fails.
Anyone ever set up the build menu and get compiling from Radiant working properly for Quake 1?
Ijed,
#8065 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.105] on 2008/11/29 09:57:38
what sort of minimum set up did you stitch together to get Aquire's NehQuake to work without Nehahra present?
Thanks in advance
- Adawanp
Gravity
#8066 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/29 14:29:50
Is it possible to have a "0" gravity in a map ? I think Quoth2 allows it, right ?
Well
#8067 posted by ijed [190.20.125.226] on 2008/11/29 14:36:30
As I remember it needed inside it's own directory a fake packfile that simulated to the engine that Neh was present.
The packfile has a sprite and a map in it, those being the essentials.
http://www.4shared.com/file/736636...
Statue/viewthing
#8068 posted by generic [72.189.174.56] on 2008/11/29 16:35:33
Isn't there already an entity called func_viewthing or somesuch that could be used for statues? Does it require precaching as well?
Thanks,
#8069 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.58] on 2008/11/29 18:07:09
you made my work flow today 100.88 percent easier. I was going to follow the pop up error trail to create dummy files otherwise.
Np
#8070 posted by ijed [190.20.125.226] on 2008/11/29 18:14:28
Enki
#8071 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/11/29 21:21:06
why not give sikkpin's editor a shot? it's very similar to gtkr and it's made for q1
Necros
#8072 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2008/11/29 23:48:39
You are referring I would assume to this thread:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
sikkpin's QuakeEd 3.1 (build 102. I will check it out. Thanks for the heads up; cheers :D
JPL
#8073 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/11/30 01:31:53
No gravity at all isn't possible, as 0 will default to normal gravity, but you can make the gravity very low.
Lardarse
#8074 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/30 09:34:58
Thanks for the info, I was not sure about that point ;)
Blue Lines
#8075 posted by Preach [81.152.239.217] on 2008/11/30 18:21:53
You can't set the gravity multiplier on individual entities to 0, for the reason lardarse describes. But you can set sv_gravity to 0, which works because cvars can have non-zero defaults. I wouldn't recommend it though, because the player can't properly land, so even when you're against the floor you can't jump.
Hmmmm
#8076 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/11/30 18:52:37
So a map with no gravity, like in space, would be very difficult to do.. unless a "fly mode" is enabled... Maybe a good idea for later ...
Thanks :)
Sound Question
#8077 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/12/01 20:15:30
I have a question about sounds I want to add in my map (Quoth2 based): is there any specific format I have to respect ? During beta test, it has been noticed the sound, after some time, turns to metallic buzzy effect... any idea where it can come from ?
#8078 posted by negke [88.70.63.106] on 2008/12/01 20:51:57
11khz mono.
The more sounds are played simultaneously (especially if they are loud/bass), the worse it sounds.
Negke
#8079 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/12/01 20:55:50
Thanks... what if sounds are 22kHz or 44kHz ? Can it cause soundcard crash ?
Oh...
#8080 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/12/01 20:57:03
..and 8bit or 16 bit mono ?
#8081 posted by negke [88.70.63.106] on 2008/12/01 21:01:27
8bit.
If the sounds are 22khz etc, they usually aren't played in regular engines, I think.
JPL
#8082 posted by gb [89.27.213.191] on 2008/12/01 21:22:01
space zero G maps, have you looked at Gyro? You can set various physics properties on entities, among them "hovering" which counters gravity IIRC.
http://inside3d.com/showtutorial.p...
http://inside3d.com/showtutorial.p...
http://inside3d.com/showtutorial.p...
JPL
#8083 posted by golden_boy [89.27.213.191] on 2008/12/01 21:26:30
sounds:
Engine needs 44.1kHz sound support, which many have, but your good sounds will stick out among the low quality Quake ones.
Metallic buzzing: Maybe distortion? Digital sounds can't be louder than 0 dB, otherwise you'll get bad clipping. Especially when several sounds come together, like an ambient sound plus monster, player and weapon sounds... the volume adds up, and then you get clipping.
Make any new sounds around -8 or -10 dBFS, often lower, and ambient sounds can be at -20 dBFS or similar.
Quake can't handle too many sounds at the same time, unless you do it right.
gb
And
#8084 posted by gb [89.27.213.191] on 2008/12/01 21:28:27
higher sample rate sounds are normally roughly downsampled at runtime, which costs lots of processing power, and can maybe make your soundcard puke. Theoretically. Unlikely though.
:(
#8085 posted by Spirit [213.39.196.230] on 2008/12/01 21:49:32
I soooo want more engines with Ogg Vorbis support. Ever since I started playing with the soundtrack playing Quake has become so much more atmospheric. And with Quoth and it's *_command you can even change the playing track on-the-fly (well, if the engine supports it).
OK Guys
#8086 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2008/12/01 22:19:22
Thanks a lot for the advices.
Some of my sounds (and the faulty one) is 44kHz... so I have to make it 11kHz, as well as I have to check if it not too loud (i.e <0dB)...
hmmm, I know what I have to do now ;)
Sounds
#8087 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/01 23:37:06
if we're talking about a glquake engine or something close (fitzquake) then sounds in higher sample rates like 22 and 44khz, will be automatically downsampled to 11khz. this is actually worse than using an 11khz sound because the automatic downsampling used is bad unlike downsampling in a proper sound editing package.
also, use 16 bit. it's twice as big as 8bit, but 8bit makes for fuzzy sounds unless the sound is very loud like an explosion, but something subtle like wind humming or something will be fuzzy.
Monster Pathing Question
#8088 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/02 12:51:57
I'm trying to set it up so that monsters will seek the player out in the level. They don't care if the player is visible, they will just hunt him regardless.
What I currently do is I set the monsters goalentity to the player and set them to walking. Now, that works but monsters like scrags won't change their elevation in pursuit of the goal. I notice that they WILL fly up and down when attacking so ... what can I do to make them Z aware when simply walking towards a goal?
Dont Know Willem, Sorry...
#8089 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/12/02 13:04:08
But that made me think of a query:
In Ijeds 256 brush SpaceHulk map, he used Quoth's "spawn aware" thingy to get the hordes of feinds to run towards the player.
Ijed - was this easy, or did it cause problems - I seem to remember trying to use the spawn aware flag and it not working ... (?)
How Do You Do That?
#8090 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/12/02 13:08:22
In the case of cooperative?
Point of fact, how do you do that anyway? (the first part).
I'm new to writing code, but I tend to think in the right way.
Monsters are never z-aware AFAIK. You could make some sort of hacked entity flag for path points, but it wouldn't work so well.
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
Is how I got z-aware working - maybe it can be applied to the goalentity.
#8091 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/02 13:19:59
"In Ijeds 256 brush SpaceHulk map, he used Quoth's "spawn aware" thingy to get the hordes of feinds to run towards the player."
I can do that just fine but I don't want them to get aggressive until they actually SEE the player. So I want them casually walking while moving towards the player.
"Monsters are never z-aware AFAIK."
Well, scrags seem to become z-aware when they get aggressive because then they start moving up/down to find the player. When they're just pathing around, they won't.
Fly AI
#8092 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/12/02 15:03:21
Means they'll try and find a higher altitude than their enemy, but that's about it, I think.
#8093 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/02 16:45:10
Sure, but they aren't doing that. If I put a scrag into a hole I've cut in the floor and tell him that I'm his goalentity, he'll move towards me just fine but he'll never come out of the hole. He seems to only move along a 2D plane.
Until he gets attacked, that is. Once aggro'd, he'll change elevation all the live long day.
It Can Be Done.
#8094 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/12/02 19:47:17
By setting them along a path, and then instead of pointing them around in a loop (like the ogre in e1m2), you leave the last path_corner pointing nowhere, so that then it will start walking towards the player (there's an enforcer by the second floodgate switch that does this, you may need noclip and notarget to observe this). However, to make scrags z-aware would require changes to the flymonster "walk" code. At which point you may as well find a better way to signify that the monster should track the player.
#8095 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/02 19:51:31
OK, how about this : is the z-aware combat movement behavior something that is handled in QuakeC or is that an engine thing?
Z-aware Walking
#8096 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/02 20:53:49
to get around this with the melee mod i'm working on (since a scragg can be made to follow the player without attacking) i had to introduce a sort of hack.
essentially, it uses velocity to push the scragg up or down. this would look out of place unless you are using the flying monster hack (running movetogoal, resetting position, setting velocity to match movetogoal's new position) but works well because you don't have to worry about z-collision since the engine will handle that on it's own with velocity.
unfortunatly, this is the only fast way to do it since using walkmove(0) to check if a bbox is stuck doesn't work with flying monsters.
you need to make a special exception to keep it from getting stuck on floors though, so you'd need to have it clear the onground flag and then set a delay to prevent it from hitting the floor again.
Source Of The Problem
#8097 posted by Preach [81.152.235.254] on 2008/12/02 21:34:20
I had a look in the engine source, and the relevant lines are:
enemy = PROG_TO_EDICT(ent->v.enemy);
if (i == 0 && enemy != sv.edicts)
{
dz = ent->v.origin[2] - PROG_TO_EDICT(ent->v.enemy) ->v.origin[2];
if (dz > 40)
neworg[2] -= 8;
if (dz < 30)
neworg[2] += 8;
}
I know it's horribly out of context and not everyone here who knows QC will know C. But the main things to take away are:
The dz, which is the intended destination, is bumped up or down if the flying monster is more than 40 units or less than 30 units from the ideal.
The ideal level is calculated from the origin of the monster's enemy. Which is what we all guessed anyway.
If you wanted to be able to use this navigation directly, then you'd need to set enemy to the player as well as goalentity. The important thing then is to make sure that other bits of the code stop treating "enemy" as the indicator that the monster should be aggressive. The most vital place for this change is ai_run, and FindTarget would also need changing, along with everything it calls.
You could define a new entity field, "lifelongenemy" or something, which would be substituted for "enemy" almost everywhere. Then you're free to use "enemy" to dictate hovering height. The reason I say almost everywhere is because you'd want to make sure "enemy" matches "lifelongenemy" once the monster is aggravated.
#8098 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/02 21:41:28
Hmm, leveraging "enemy" ... that's something I hadn't considered.
I guess my other option is to not have scrags hunt the player since they are the ONLY monster that will have this problem. :P
#8099 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/02 21:42:03
Well, and fish, but in a different way ... but fuck them, scaly little bastards.
Stoneless
#8100 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/03 19:39:28
Here's a question for the hive mind ... I remember WAY back in the day seeing screen shots for an upcoming editor called Stoneless. Anyone know what became of it or if the web site is archived somewhere?
Willem, Ask Mr.frib
#8101 posted by spy [89.218.6.245] on 2008/12/03 20:06:44
About Stoneless
#8102 posted by spy [89.218.6.245] on 2008/12/03 20:07:25
As I Recall
#8103 posted by lurker [68.158.5.150] on 2008/12/03 20:10:06
The Stoneless website didn't contain much, but the editor itself was released.
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pc/games/id... (1.2 MB)
Willem
#8104 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/12/03 20:14:46
Ahh OK. In ToeTag, if I wanted a hot light with a large fall off I would do something like:
"_light" "250 64 150 300"
A little easier to do and better for control since you can input the exact radii that you want to use. Above, that would be a 250 brightness light for 64 units and then a 150 with fall off for the next 300.
You said this to me a while ago when someone was talking about lights. I would really like to know what the resultant light entity would look like in .map format.
Could you tell me :) ?
You see I dont know how the Toetag lighting system works, but I need to reduce the amount of lights in my map (tyrlite wont work on maps with more than 2048 entities, as far as I can tell, and I have an excessive number of lights in my map, many sourced lights have 2 entities or more next to them)
Now I dont know what
"_light" "250 64 150 300"
means, but I do know what
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "300"
"wait" "1.5"
}
means.
When I start using the "delay" key I get confused. I like the effect that Tyrlite gives from "delay" "2", but it seems to produce a massive radius of minlight, which I dont really want......
So I would like to see what
"_light" "250 64 150 300"
looks like in game, and in .map format.
Please help!
#8105 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/03 20:46:37
It's basically saying "give me a 250 strength light for a radius of 64, and a 150 strength light with a radius of 300".
Basically just 2 light entities for the price of one. The only technical difference is that the second light doesn't start falling off until the radius of the first light is exhausted (so it fades starting at 64 and ending at 300).
#8106 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/03 20:48:01
And MAP format is fairly obvious:
{
"classname" "light"
"_light" "250 64 150 300"
}
You would need my light utility though to use it and, of course, that's missing stuff like LIT support.
#8107 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/03 20:49:43
Fuck, let me start over. That description sucks.
It's NOT like 2 light entities, I forgot.
OK, what happens is that you get a 250 light strength casting within a radius of 64. You then get a 150 strength light falling off between 64 and 300. So you get a very hot center surrounded with a cooler falloff.
I hope that's clearer...
Ahh!
#8108 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/12/03 21:00:51
Damn.
Lord - I have re-lit this map once over already, and I'm not happy. I think I know what Im gonna do. Hmmm...
- A result of surfing so close to the damn standard engine limits. I mean Fuck! How was I supposed to know that Tyrlite only allows 2048 entities in a bloody map?!?!
(sigh) oh well.....
#8109 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/03 21:15:08
See, this is one of the many reasons I don't condone huge maps. Who needs the hassle?
Mdl
#8110 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/03 23:07:12
I make a new monster and want to give it an attack movement it occurs to me that when I use a mdl object it only uses the first frame.
how do I give the monster a mdl object that poses all the frames in it, and not only the first?
Ricky
#8111 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.36] on 2008/12/04 03:25:15
I have found this strategy to be a useful tact for a Quoth based map set I have been quietly stitching together. Build a huge hull based on just a few thousand or less brushes, after lighting the basic hull, divide it into four or more portions for individual maps that share a common macro architecture. It is actually kind of neat to see a central facade in one map disappear into the distance for the next map. Quoth has a limited hull system that makes this possible, limited but it is enough for the needs of what I'm doing.
Yeah
#8112 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/12/04 03:57:49
I could split it up, but thats not what I am going to do in this case. I have just ditched a load of lights and re-thought my lighting strategy, and solved the issue! It actually looks better now I think!
The map currently has 32604 marksurfaces. And I keep hitting efrags, but I have used a lot of daft func_illusionaries, and its not to difficult to re-arrange them and fix the problem.
Heh - I'm burning through this one now - could go into alpha in days...
Willem
#8113 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.208.192.220] on 2008/12/04 12:54:07
I used Stoneless to make most of my maps - it wasn't as fully featured as Worldcraft, but I found it to be more stable and nicer to use.
I say "not as fully featured", but I should note that that while it didn't have as many features as WC, it did all the core stuff well and had a few things that were really neat (like templates/instances and WAD editing right there in the editor). Also, it doesn't have any stones.
I believe that the link that lurker posted is the final version, though you'll have a lot of trouble getting it to work properly these days even on windows, presumably because it used D3D back in the v5/6 days. It worked up until Win98/ME but after that I started getting black polys in the 3D view when using texture mode and stuff like that.
I wouldn't recommend trying to actually use it these days (even if you can get it to work), GtkRadiant or Hammer would be much better choices. However, if you're investigating other editors to check out their features and workflow it's definitely well worth a look - again, there's a few features in there that I've not seen in other Quake editors.
#8114 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/04 13:16:52
Thanks Fribbles. Are there any screenshots available online? I've never been able to find any.
A Gift For Willem
#8115 posted by lurker [74.160.99.165] on 2008/12/04 19:01:06
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/... (4.6 MB)
So... Dead Player Model In Map:
#8116 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/12/04 20:24:00
If I put my dead player in the map, which frames are death frames? When I open the player.mdl in QME I can see the frames, but that doesnt tell me which frame is which because the total frames are split into sequences, so there would be, say, 10 "1s", etc, and I'm confused!
You Have To Count
#8117 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/12/04 20:43:55
Ignoring the frame groups.
I think 69 is one of them. And 87?
I had a testmap with them set up, but can't remember now and don't have the map here.
#8118 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/04 21:10:10
Lurker: <3
Thanks! And that is ... significantly less cool than I was remembering. Oh well, at least I can stop wondering about it now! :)
#8119 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/04 21:15:39
What did the D3D lighting preview look like? Useful or no?
Willem
#8120 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.199.179] on 2008/12/05 02:15:03
Not useful at all. It was very low detail, and took so long to render that it was faster to compile the map, run the game and check it properly.
And Hey...
#8121 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.199.179] on 2008/12/05 02:16:36
Stoneless was pretty awesome at the time. Of course, at the time most of the other editors were garbage and Worldcrash was an unstable POS!
Deathframes
#8122 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/05 02:18:02
Just count down, lazy bone...
deathframes player.mdl 50 -60 -85 -94 -103
Ricky -70
Spites
#8123 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/05 05:05:15
How come Quake has lost all its sprites except a few?
Was it because the round tiling looked ugly? Or was the resolution too bad?
I'm trying to put in some new sprites, but just get one frame effects.
#8124 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/05 11:13:30
I think Carmack said that they used the sprites during early development but eventually ended up replacing almost all of them with models by the time they shipped.
If you remember that in QTest, wall torches were sprites...
it can certainly handle multi-frame effects though. The rocket/grenade explosion is a sprite. Not sure how that gets set up though.
Probably Framegroups...
#8125 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2008/12/05 12:02:03
i think models and sprites share a similar data format for frames and framegroups.
Explosion Sprite
#8126 posted by Preach [81.153.25.141] on 2008/12/05 15:03:47
Although I'm pretty sure that you can set up framegroups in a sprite, the explosion which comes with quake is not set up like that. The frames are called by the functions s_explode1-6 like regular monster frames are called.
If you set the frame of a model or sprite to a frame-value which contains a framegroup, but the random flag is not set, does it always start from the beginning? If it did, you could change the explosion to a framegroup and save yourself a tiny bit of network traffic!
Blah
#8127 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/05 20:50:15
I had an hard egg on this earlier. I created some new sprites with FimG, and added them to misc.qc as an addition under light.
Problem is that I can see only one frame of it.
So I tried again with a mdl, added to the misc.qc and still it's only one frame.
Data from the sprite is ungrouped as I can see in FimG, but elsewhere in the code the frames of the torch are defined as frame1 flame1 0.1
There must be a code that offers the engine to play more frames, but when I substitute the expl.spr with my own one it freezes on the first.
Desperately seeking I found a sprite.qc but this won't proceed the proqcc. Wrong statements.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/SPRIT...
#8128 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/05 21:01:42
I found this text which seems to explain everything:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Sorry if you already had all that info but it looked useful.
Madfox
#8129 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/05 21:26:22
none of that stuff in that qc file is even needed. it was probably used when they 'compiled' the sprites, the same way some of the data at the top of all the monster .qc files aren't needed.
sprites are handled identically to models. just set .frame to a number and you're set. you can use the same frame macros that are used for monsters except instead of using $frame1, $frame2, just put the number 0, 1, 2 in that spot instead.
Well
#8130 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/05 23:18:37
thsnks for your info. I'll check on it.
a sprite looks more tinkling then a mdl.
Sprites In Maps?
#8131 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2008/12/08 05:21:19
sprites are handled identically to models
Does this mean that any code that places an arbitrary model in a map, could also place a sprite? I'm aware that quoth can do this, but I'm curious about other mods.
Afaik
#8132 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/08 08:03:47
yes. it, of course, won't animate without code though. (not sure about the sprite frame group though)
I Wonder
#8133 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/08 09:06:00
After several attempts I succeeded in making a sprite in quake.
First I had to convert the brushes in the sprite upside down, as I only got an upside down sprite in game.
Then I tried, as you said necros, it identically to a model, but then I got it wrong as it isn't a model that wants to attack me.
so I probably overlooked something in my coding text, and decided to make them all the same frame.
That worked, although it isn't a nice code.
$cd /raid/quake/id1/models/can
$origin 16 16 24
$base base
$skin base
$frame 1 2 3
void() can_stand1 =[ $1, can_stand2 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand2 =[ $2, can_stand3 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand3 =[ $3, can_stand1 ] {ai_stand();};
void() model_can =
{
precache_model ("progs/can.spr");
self.solid = SOLID_BBOX;
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;
setmodel (self, "progs/can.spr");
setsize (self, '16 16 -24', '16 16 40');
self.th_stand = can_stand1;
self.th_walk = can_stand1;
self.th_run = can_stand1;
self.th_pain = can_stand1;
self.th_die = can_stand1;
walkmonster_start ();
};
Screenshots don't work with sprites:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/sprit...
#8134 posted by Preach [81.152.232.212] on 2008/12/08 11:43:21
You can simplify that code a bit, and take out the monster AI functions which don't suit a trash can well.
void() can_stand1 =[ 0, can_stand2 ] {};
void() can_stand2 =[ 1, can_stand3 ] {};
void() can_stand3 =[ 2, can_stand1 ] {};
void() model_can =
{
precache_model ("progs/can.spr");
self.solid = SOLID_BBOX;
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;
setmodel (self, "progs/can.spr");
setsize (self, '16 16 -24', '16 16 40');
self.think = can_stand1;
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
};
Notice that the $1-3 can be replaced with the numbers 0 to 2, the corresponding numbers for the frames in your model. The ai_stand() function is not needed, so we delete it.
Also, you don't need to run all the walkmonster_start stuff just to get it to run can_stand1, which is what is doing the animation here. If you just set that function to be the entity's .think, and set the .nextthink to time + 0.1, then in 0.1 seconds time the can will run can_stand1.
For a more detailed explanation of what is going on with a line like:
void() can_stand1 =[ $1, can_stand2 ] {ai_stand();};
you might want to read the second half of http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php...
I know I wrote it myself, blowing my own trumpet and all, but it's easier for me to find my own articles on the matter.
Quake (1) .map Export From Blender
#8135 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.146] on 2008/12/08 14:52:16
Blender seems like a great tool to create terrains and other "advanced" brushwork. Here is a long but easy way to get a Quake 1 map from the Q3 .map export.
-First a dirty hack. Edit the export_map.py. A bit below "# Split mesh into connected regions" change "write_face2brush(file, f)" to "write_cube2brush(file, face_group)". I suggest saving under a new name (top of the file) to avoid confusion.
-Create your stuff from single brushes. You can use the first brush as base.
-Move vertices around happily (with snapping I suggest) and don't forget triangulation on faces that need it (if you get gaps and "wrong" brushes exported, this will be the reason). Ctrl-T and Ctrl-Shift-T (for the other diagonale) do this. You will need to do it on faces that create a new edge.
-When you are done, export: File -> Export -> your q3 script. If you use 64 for scale, the first brush will equal a 128³ brush, 32 will get you 64³ and so on. I think the Grid Snap is a good idea, haven't played with it yet.
-Open the .map in QuArK (Quake 3). Copy the brushes into a Quake 1 .map. Save that .map.
-Open the Q1 .map in a texteditor and replace ".00000" with "" if you feel like it. You must replace all " 0 1 1 0 0 0" with " 0 1 1". (If there are 0.xxxxx values, well those too. I haven't really figured out where those sometimes sneak in yet.)
Done!
I Forgot
#8136 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.146] on 2008/12/08 15:01:47
Before exporting, make sure to select all brushes (a).
Madfox:
#8137 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2008/12/08 19:27:32
First I had to convert the brushes in the sprite upside down, as I only got an upside down sprite in game.
This is actually a bug; sprites are drawn upside-down in glquake and a lot of engines that are based on glquake.
Sorry
#8138 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/08 19:59:05
i didn't really explain properly:
$frame 1 2 3
void() can_stand1 =[ $1, can_stand2 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand2 =[ $2, can_stand3 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand3 =[ $3, can_stand1 ] {ai_stand();};
should be
void() can_stand1 =[ 0, can_stand2 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand2 =[ 1, can_stand3 ] {ai_stand();};
void() can_stand3 =[ 2, can_stand1 ] {ai_stand();};
all those $frame1 $frame2 crap does is start counting up from 0 and assign a number, so when you do like
$walk1 $walk2
$run1 $run
$walk1 = 0
$walk2 = 1
$run1 = 2
$run2 = 3
and your model would have the two walk frames as the first two frames, and the two run frames as the last two. (they have to be in that order)
Oh
#8139 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2008/12/08 19:59:52
and as far as i can tell,
$cd /raid/quake/id1/models/can
$origin 16 16 24
$base base
$skin base
is completely useless and doesn't do anything.
it was only there when id compiled the old models using their old tools. now with qme and such, that isn't necessary.
Splendid!
#8140 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/09 00:35:51
Thanks for your answers, it was really a mystery to me how to get sprites inside Quake.
metlslime - I already thought I did something wrong. FimG shows all the other sprites right, but it is something to remind.
preach - that works great. I have already your tutorial on my disk, but reading it again won't do me harm. It gives more insight in the statements.
necros - thanks, that makes the script shorter and reasonable to use.
For now the sprite runs good, but I can't place it on buttom. If I use:
setsize (self, '0 0 0', '12 12 24');
the can appears excact on the half.
Alright
#8141 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/09 00:48:35
found it. placing them better in Quark.
I Have A Wish For Christmas
#8142 posted by Spirit [80.171.98.200] on 2008/12/09 14:16:31
Someone could do a cheatsheet image (or webpage) showcasing a multitude of settings and setting combinations from aguiRre's Light.exe.
RE:Blender:
It sure is fun (especially if you are used to a crippling editor like QuArK) but the need for manual triangulation ruins half of it. Maybe there is an automatic way, I haven't found it yet. It would be great if concave brushes would automatically split into smaller convex ones, heh. Also if there was a way to split meshes into cubes, woohoo. There are some nifty generators, maybe there is a way. r_speeds be damned!
Using a pure 3D "interface" surely feels different and to me it also inspires.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
#8143 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/09 15:25:33
"It would be great if concave brushes would automatically split into smaller convex ones, heh."
I tried to add that feature to ToeTag for ages - it's not as easy as it sounds. Would be hella nice though.
Doomsp8?
#8144 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/09 20:06:45
Hé Willem, I was surprised to see that screenshot on quaketastic.
I'm already a long time mapping on the Doom's Hangar.
So I was quiet surprised seeing someone who had actually done it.
Texture Filename Restrictions
#8145 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.54] on 2008/12/14 13:43:15
Where is the 15 character texture name limit set in Quake? Is it the WAD format, the compiler tools, the engine(s)? How hard would it be to get rid of it?
#8146 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/14 17:43:07
The WAD format is a huge part of it. Because of that, to change it, you'd have to change all of the engine and tool code that references WAD files.
Thanks
#8147 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.54] on 2008/12/14 18:56:40
Damn, that is one restriction I just cannot comprehend.
#8148 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/14 19:09:15
You should look into how MDL files are stored and de-coded sometimes. Now THAT'S a mind bending nightmare.
Spirit:
#8149 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2008/12/14 23:16:18
a lot of quake tech was sufficient for what id wanted to do, so they never bothered to worry about it.
Willem
#8150 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2008/12/15 12:11:20
Stores vector min, max; as floats, then the vectors for everything else are stored as unsigned bytes, with 0 being the minimum possible value for the axis and 255 being the maximum possible.
Did I miss anything?
#8151 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/15 12:29:04
"Did I miss anything?"
That's the overall concept, yes. Have you written code to actually parse that out of a PAK file? It's a nightmare.
Heh
#8152 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.89] on 2008/12/15 12:59:25
My "Blender fix" will leave you with many many MANY duplicate brushes. I obviously did not know what I was doing. Well, I don't think anyone except me uses it but still, just be aware so far.
...
#8153 posted by gb [89.27.233.231] on 2008/12/19 12:10:00
Someone could do a cheatsheet image (or webpage) showcasing a multitude of settings and setting combinations from aguiRre's Light.exe.
AguirRe?
And don't forget to take the screenies in software AND GL, because especially minlight using areas look vastly better in software (as do torches, candles etc). This goes as far as walls appearing to be a different color.
:-P
Ahah
#8154 posted by ijed [190.20.91.238] on 2008/12/20 01:20:02
But all that depends on which monitor you'll be looking at the pictures on, and what it's settings are.
Sheer Laziness
#8155 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.63] on 2008/12/21 20:19:50
1) I have a complex door (in terms of brushwork) and I want to duplicate it as a set of brushes. How can I change an entity into brushwork?
2) I have a map that is on the limits (marksurfaces, clipnodes etc) and one of my complex doors does not appear in-game. Common problem?
Mike
#8156 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2008/12/21 23:13:57
call the .map file up into a text file:
{
"spawnflags" "2048"
"classname" "func_door"
"targetname" "t34"
"angle" "-2"
"wait" "-1"
"speed" "50"
"sounds" "4"
"message" "These bars are opened elsewhere..."
{
( -304 904 -192 ) ( -304 880 -192 ) ( -304 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 904 -192 ) ( -304 904 -192 ) ( -304 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 880 -192 ) ( -272 904 -192 ) ( -272 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -304 888 -192 ) ( -272 888 -192 ) ( -272 888 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -304 880 -128 ) ( -304 904 -128 ) ( -272 904 -128 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 904 -256 ) ( -304 904 -256 ) ( -304 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
}
{
( -368 904 -192 ) ( -368 880 -192 ) ( -368 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 904 -192 ) ( -368 904 -192 ) ( -368 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 880 -192 ) ( -336 904 -192 ) ( -336 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -376 888 -192 ) ( -344 888 -192 ) ( -344 888 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -368 880 -128 ) ( -368 904 -128 ) ( -336 904 -128 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 904 -256 ) ( -368 904 -256 ) ( -368 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
}
}
eliminate this part first:
{
"spawnflags" "2048"
"classname" "func_door"
"targetname" "t34"
"angle" "-2"
"wait" "-1"
"speed" "50"
"sounds" "4"
"message" "These bars are opened elsewhere..."
go to the bottom of the entity and eliminate the last curvy bracket:
....
( -336 904 -256 ) ( -368 904 -256 ) ( -368 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
}
}
so it looks like this:
{
( -304 904 -192 ) ( -304 880 -192 ) ( -304 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 904 -192 ) ( -304 904 -192 ) ( -304 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 880 -192 ) ( -272 904 -192 ) ( -272 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -304 888 -192 ) ( -272 888 -192 ) ( -272 888 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -304 880 -128 ) ( -304 904 -128 ) ( -272 904 -128 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -272 904 -256 ) ( -304 904 -256 ) ( -304 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
}
{
( -368 904 -192 ) ( -368 880 -192 ) ( -368 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 904 -192 ) ( -368 904 -192 ) ( -368 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 880 -192 ) ( -336 904 -192 ) ( -336 904 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -376 888 -192 ) ( -344 888 -192 ) ( -344 888 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -368 880 -128 ) ( -368 904 -128 ) ( -336 904 -128 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
( -336 904 -256 ) ( -368 904 -256 ) ( -368 880 -256 ) MET5_1 0 0 0 1.000000 1.000000
}
#8157 posted by negke [88.70.252.51] on 2008/12/21 23:26:21
1) Move the door entity somewhere, copy its brushes, and move it back in position. :P
2) Is any part of it visblocked? Or wrong spawnflags/fields?
Good One, Neg!
#8158 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2008/12/22 00:09:52
I'm curious how Worldcraft and BSP handle it. If you take a brush (or brushes) in Radiant and eliminate the entity portion, you create an object not recognized as either a brush or entity, and the .map file will do crazy things, like what happened to me years ago, it created each single brush as a world_spawn entity. So, that is one thing I recommend editing by hand in a text file, or like Neg!ke said, recreate the brushes manually in the editor.
And I Do Mean
#8159 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.188] on 2008/12/22 00:11:15
it created each single brush as a world_spawn entity.
each single brush as a separate world_spawn entity, thousands of them.
Nope
#8160 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.239.63] on 2008/12/22 00:24:42
negke: I tried Clone Brushes and got an exact clone. I tried Copy Brushes and got an exact copy. (Where's your ! gone?)
HeadThump: Seems as though that should work, but... What I end up with is nothing where the door was but I do get a brush created on the 0,0,0 point that shows as a door but with messed up settings. Is there a some kind of CRC going on?
Is The Map Vised?
#8161 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2008/12/22 01:22:32
If its a real complex door it could be efrags. As in the efrags limit? That would cause the ent. to dissappear. But its probably not that cause in Tomaz/Fitz engines it would tell you....
If the map aint vised it could be packet overflow. This would cause it to dissappear.
Again, too obvious....
As for copying the door into world brushes:
Use Worldcraft, copy the door, paste a duplicate and then click "to world"....
Never used BSP editor, sorry :P
You Know, You Could...
#8162 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2008/12/22 02:16:51
compile the door brushes as a separate bsp object, then call it through the model field of your door entities in the main map. Of course then the lighting would be the same on each one...
Uh
#8163 posted by negke [88.70.64.74] on 2008/12/22 11:18:31
Maybe I misunderstood what the problem is? I imagined all editors to be capable to copying only the brushes of an entity or at least remove the model function from them. (Mike: the ! was deleeted)
#8164 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2008/12/22 12:03:21
That would be my thinking as well. Can't you just select the door and move it back to the worldspawn somehow via the editor?
While
#8165 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/22 13:43:15
converting the zdoomgl models to Quake there's one thing I couldn't overcome. For some strange reason all models are converted left-handed(?!)
Now I have to change the origin of the laser.mdl I'm confronted with this
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 16';
How do I rearange these para's into the opposite shoot direction?
Declaration Of V_rights
#8166 posted by Preach [81.152.235.178] on 2008/12/22 14:23:18
Ok, here's the explanation bit. Somewhere before that line in the code, there should be a line which reads something like
makevectors(self.angles);
This is a builtin QC function, which does the following:
* Read in self.angles(or whatever angle you give it)
* Find a vector which points in the direction of that angle, normalize it, and store it in the QC global vector called v_forward.
* Then imagine that you are facing in the direction of v_forward, and tilt the screen by the number of degrees in the third component of the angle.
* Now draw a vector going horizontally across the screen. Normalize it and store it in v_right.
* Finally find a vector going vertically up the screen, normalize it and store it in v_up
You can then use these three vectors in your calculations. One way to think about it is that they let you position things relative to an entity. If you want a position which is 10 units in front, 15 units to the right and 8 units up relative to the entity, you'd run makevectors, then use:
self.origin + 10 * v_forward + 15 * v_right + 8 * v_up
So that's great if you want to go right, but how do you go left? Well, there is no v_left because the following would always be true:
v_left = -1 * v_right
So to put the laser on the left hand side instead, just change the sign of the v_right component:
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * -8.5 + '0 0 16';
Yaeh!!!
#8167 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2008/12/22 15:06:04
Thanks Preach, that worked.
I was already doing with the v_left factor and then I had an error on the - sign. They're going great now!
thanks again, not only the right line, but also why. (my poor maths)
http://members.home.nl/gimli/quake...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/kuake...
lol
Worldcraft Annoyances
#8168 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 16:22:01
Hey all!
Anyways, I got back into mapping and modding for Quake again. I'm still using WorldCraft, but there is a very critical issue with it that is really annoying me.
I use WorldCraft 3.33, along with WC3 Quake Adaptor patch.
The main problem is that in Texture Application mode (invoked by pressing Shift + A), I can’t seem to be able to pick any faces in the 3D view port. No matter how many times I click on a face, I cannot select it. Even holding down Shift to select multiple faces doesn’t work.
This is annoying me because it worked before, but now it doesn’t, and I'm thinking that the WC3 Quake Adaptor might have something todo with it.
I would not really like to have to switch to GTK or some other editor over such a idiosyncratic issue.
I posted this on Inside 3D as well, so any advice or help is appreciated.
Graphics Card Issue
#8169 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/12/22 16:31:04
I think. I use hammer 3.4 which has it fixed (yep, works with the adapter).
I think if there's an option for 3d window configuration for 'Hardware Acceleration' then turn that off.
The adapter's not to blame - the difference between WC1.6a and Hammer 3.4 is a different set of bugs.
Still Fails...
#8170 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 17:09:44
Just tried the whole thing again with hammer 3.4
I still cant select brush faces in the 3D viewport. Is it perhaps that there is an option tunred off by default somewhere?
#8171 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2008/12/22 17:18:44
Do you have anti-aliasing enabled? I know that screws editors up sometimes when it comes to selection.
Is It ATI?!?!?!?
#8172 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/12/22 17:21:27
In view of Willem said you should be able to check the global settings of your display drivers, i.e. via Nvidia Control Panel, or Catalyst Control Thingy... Is Anti Aliasing enabled all the time, or does it say something like "let application decide" or even "off"
No AA
#8173 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 17:29:26
No, i dotn have AA on, and on my Catalyst drivers, it says "let applications decide".
I wonder what it could be...
No Decals Either
#8174 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 17:34:32
I should probably mention that I cant place any decals either in the 3D viewport.
Quake
#8175 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2008/12/22 18:15:52
Doesn't support decals . . .
#8176 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 18:20:27
Yeah, I remember now. But regardless of the decals, I still cant pick individual brush faces in the 3D viewport. I'll give Hammer 3.4 a go and see how it goess.
No Luck In 3.4 :(
#8177 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 18:29:10
Hammer 3.4 has the same issue as WC 3.3. I still cant select individual bursh faces in the 3D viewport. :(
OK, This Might Seem Very Obvious But You Never Know...
#8178 posted by RickyT23 [81.132.88.108] on 2008/12/22 18:36:08
Are you in "texture application mode" when you are trying this? Enter the texture application mode vis a button on the left margin....
(I know its obvious, sorry...)
ISSUE FIXED!!!!!!! :)
#8179 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 18:52:49
I FIXED IT!!!!!!!! I'M SOOOO HAPPY I COULD CRY!!!!!!!!!!!
ATI driver coders need a good spanking. Turns out I needed an old version of the atioglxx.dll in the WC or Hammer directory, because I have the drivers, which mess WC and Hammer up totaly!!!
Well, that was a fun 5 or so hours. Thnx for your help.
P.S. Here is where I found a number of people with the same problem as me: http://www.chatbear.com/unity2/12/...
Wow, That's Cool
#8180 posted by Preach [81.152.235.178] on 2008/12/22 21:36:04
I encountered this hammer/drivers bug before, and I know I'm not the only one on here who has. But the only solution I could offer was to regress to a much older version of the drivers. I'm gonna go test this dll out right now, see if it works here...
Old Drivers Is Key
#8181 posted by Zylyx [86.27.229.205] on 2008/12/22 22:54:49
Unfortunately, the best solution IS to roll back to old Catalyst drivers. Get hold of Catalyst 7.9, because 7.1 Catalyst drivers still dont work with WC or Hammer.
There is a price you will pay. With the 7.9 Ati drivers, the native windows version of Dark Places WILL NOT WORK, so you will have to use the SDL port.
Dont you just love all this messing about? You have to spend like a day sorting sh*t like this out before you can even sit down and mod. It's still fun though :).
Hmm
#8182 posted by Preach [81.152.235.178] on 2008/12/22 22:56:36
Maybe I'll just stick with the old 5.12 drivers then, if it ain't broke...
The OTHER Solution
#8183 posted by than [58.70.66.192] on 2008/12/23 06:00:17
use wc1.6a like me, running in unaccelerated mode. It's pretty slow, and for some reason I have to disable then reenable catalyst AI to get the 2d window performance to not be utterly shit, but it does the job (just about...)
I haven't had any problems running the source version of hammer btw.
More Worldcraft Annoyances
#8184 posted by Zylyx [82.9.24.152] on 2009/01/01 18:00:05
Everytime I add a new custom entity in worldcraft, I cant compile and run my map, because I get a whole bunch of errors, the core error being:
[code]Error opening C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\game development\game projects\fire line mod\fire_line\maps\test1.bsp: No such file or directory[/code]
I added a custom entity in wolrdcraft called "ambient_sound", but I everytime I try to add any sort of custom entity, I get the same problem. Note that I'm adding this entity in WorldCraft, and I'm not adding anything to the FGD file.
I'm not sure if I need to even fiddle around with the FGD just yet, because what I do is I simply add some default entity > right click on it's properites > go to it's class name > type in my own entity that corresponds to the one I coded in QC > add the needed keys and values. I would like to know if I'm doing anything wrong.
Any advice on this would be great. thnx.
Worldcrafty
#8185 posted by Preach [81.152.235.166] on 2009/01/01 20:12:57
I'm not sure if I need to even fiddle around with the FGD just yet, because what I do is I simply add some default entity > right click on it's properites > go to it's class name > type in my own entity that corresponds to the one I coded in QC > add the needed keys and values. I would like to know if I'm doing anything wrong.
This sounds like the correct procedure, I do this all the time, which is why Quoth has no fgd file...
So I suspect the problem lies elsewhere. Can you confirm that the bsp file in the error message does exist. I remember having problems with Hammer(the newer worldcraft) when trying to read/write to directories with spaces in the path. Perhaps try working in something like c:\quake\fire_line\ and see if that makes a difference.
The only other thing I can think of now is that you are selecting a different mod configuration than usual, like "fire_line" instead of "quake". This might cause a problem if you've omitted one of the settings which allow quake maps to compile correctly. If you are, and you want to test this, open your rmf file and select "quake" from the mod selection dialogue. Then try compiling it like a regular quake map, and copying it into your mod directory to test.
The BSP Exists
#8186 posted by [82.9.24.152] on 2009/01/01 20:25:43
The bsp exists when it gets compiled, but that only works if I have no custom entities...And I dont think that my directory structure is a problem, because it works in every other case, except this one :(, lol
The thing is that I'm using the default Quake configuration, and the map compiles fine WITHOUT the custom entity KEY VALUES. For example, even if I have the custom entity in my map, called ambient_sound, without any values, it compiles and runs just fine. But the moment I add in new keys, like soundfile, volume, speed, etc, I get the error.
Now, I did try one other thing, and that is exporting my map as a .MAP and using the hmap2.exe (tool from the DarkPlaces client, very good, used mostly for colored lighting), but even there I get an error (along the lines of "data missing in entity bracket"). Even there it works fine, as long as I dont have any key values for my custom entity.
I tried to google this, but I couldnt find any way or any tutorial on how to actualy add custom entites to WorldCraft and use them correctly, besides having to hack around in in the FGD file.
#8187 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2009/01/01 20:42:37
"I do this all the time, which is why Quoth has no fgd file... "
*grumble*
:)
#8188 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2009/01/01 20:44:30
On topic, there aren't any other errors? Usually when QBSP can't generate a BSP file, it says why. I can't imagine it's a Worldcraft issue or that massaging the FGD file will help. QBSP doesn't care about entity class names.
Why Not
#8189 posted by ijed [190.20.119.167] on 2009/01/01 20:48:27
Write the entity into the FGD? It's very easy to do and takes five minutes.
Probably won't help with your problem though.
First time I've heard that one and I've been using WC / Hammer for quite a while now.
Almost sounds like it's compiling somewhere else that your launched version of Quake can't access - as if -game whatever isn't there.
But if it compiles without the custom entity then I don't know.
Total Wierdness
#8190 posted by Zylyx [82.9.24.152] on 2009/01/01 20:51:20
Yeah, that's the interesting bit. Like I said, it compiles just fine without the keys and key values for a custom entity, even if the custom entity is there. I even tried adding the custom entity as a pointclass in the FGD after trying all other things, and it still doesnt work.
Maybe it's something stupidly simple I'm overlooking.
Odds On
#8191 posted by ijed [190.20.119.167] on 2009/01/01 20:56:16
You'll get bored with the problem, go have a drink, come back to the PC and the solution will be staring you in the face. Sod's law.
#8192 posted by Zylyx [82.9.24.152] on 2009/01/01 21:03:57
Lol, yeah. I'm boring you guys with these little agreviating problems :P. Porblably gonna go and play some game soon, or watch some dvd or something.
#8193 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/01 21:40:44
but even there I get an error (along the lines of "data missing in entity bracket")
can you maybe do the export to .map thing and then open the .map file and CnP the bit with the custom entity here? it sounds like WC isn't writing the entity correctly. i wouldn't be able to solve the problem if that was the case, but at least you'd know what was causing it. :S
maybe find the relevant bit in the vmf (or is it rmf? not sure) file as well for a CnP here too.
Bits...
#8194 posted by Zylyx [82.9.24.152] on 2009/01/01 21:48:40
Bits from the .map file:
{
"classname" "ambient_sound"
"volume" "1"
"speed" "1"
"soundfile" ""ambience/suck1.wav&quo...
"origin" "192 -128 -64"
}
bits from the .rmf file:
CMapEntity
[some bits of file that cant be copied]
ambient_sound[some bits of file that cant be copied]
volume[some bits of file that cant be copied]
speed[some bits of file that cant be copied]
soundfile[some bits of file that cant be copied]
"ambience/suck1.wav"[som... bits of file that cant be copied]
I hope that gives you a better overview of the problem.
#8195 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/02 06:47:50
"soundfile" ""ambience/suck1.wav&quo...
apart from the end of that line that got garbled, notice there's a double " at the start of the key's value.
that would definitely mess things up but i think in this case, it's the .map exporter messing up because i don't see the "" in the rmf clipping.
so... i guess that didn't help at all, sozz :S
Door Issue
#8196 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/01/02 11:07:47
I have a small issue (I'm using Quoth BTW): I'd like a GK door to start closed, then to open with the gold key, but later I'd like to close it in order to force the player to use another way to the exit. I tried using the toggle field, but unfortunately it does not work... any idea ?
#8197 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2009/01/02 11:26:03
A hacky way might be to have a copy of the door in the same location that starts open. Then trigger it closed when you need it. If the doors are textured the same it shouldn't result in any noticeable z-fighting or anything.
Well
#8198 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/02 15:49:51
instead of a copy of the door, you could just do like bars or something (or a different door in roughly the same spot) to make it look less cheesy.
#8199 posted by Willem [75.177.185.17] on 2009/01/02 18:18:00
"(or a different door in roughly the same spot)"
Right, that's basically what I was saying. A second door that closes but looks like it was the original door.
Willem / Necros
#8200 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/01/02 21:56:49
OK, I understand the idea: thanks for the tip ;)
Bold Prog
#8201 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/01/03 07:49:38
I'm searching for a way to use the thunderbold flash for some kind of event, but I can only come up with the chtong hack, ie using it in a map with no doors.
How Do I Set The Angle On A Dead-body Notnull?
#8202 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/10 14:56:19
also is there a way of putting a clip brush that only effect monsters? Where did I hear mon_clip or monclip?
#8203 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/10 17:29:37
There is no monster-only clipping in Quake1. I think that came in during Quake2. There are 2 clipping hulls in Quake maps and everything uses them equally.
I Feared As Much....
#8204 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/10 17:32:37
oh well. thanks anyway!
Setting Angles
#8205 posted by Preach [86.150.195.135] on 2009/01/10 19:59:52
If you set the angles key directly it should work, give it
pitch yaw roll
Also, isn't there a hacky way to emulate monsterclip using clip brushes as part of a func_wall? You need a regular brush tied to the same entity to make it valid, which you hide inside level geometry. Then the clip parts don't impede player movement/physics objects, but some glitch makes them count for monster navigation. Anyone remember what I'm talking about here?
#8206 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/10 22:00:05
i think clip brushes in func_s do stop player movement. i'm pretty sure i tried that once, but it was a long time ago
Monster Clip....
#8207 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2009/01/11 00:04:57
one trick is to put holes or gaps in the floor, which are too small for the player to fall through. The monsters use hull0 for navigation, so they will think they can't cross those gaps.
Tested Monsterclip
#8208 posted by Preach [86.150.195.135] on 2009/01/11 00:35:14
The monsterclip by func_wall I posted above does work, but since it's a hack there are some big pitfalls. So far I've found:
* Physical movement by a monster is not blocked. Examples of this include fiends(etc...) leaping, and monsters dropping from mid-air onto the monsterclip.
* If a monster is stepping (that is to say changing height because the ground in front is slightly higher or lower) at the same point which it hits the monsterclip, it will penetrate it.
Although in some of these cases it sounds reasonable for the monster to enter the clipping brush, once one gets in, they are stuck as if they were spawned inside a wall. The fiend can escape by jumping again, but is still glitchy otherwise. So unless you use it sparingly, only in situations where these things can't occur, it's probably wise to avoid it.
Perhaps a good solution would be made QC-side. I've got an inkling of how it could be done in a clean manner, but I'd need to mess around a bit with it.
My Bad
#8209 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/11 08:09:53
i could have swore i had built an old school ladder that moved out of a func_door.
Help
#8210 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/01/11 10:35:59
fire brigade!
Hmm
#8211 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/01/11 13:50:21
Possibly not the best plan if your house is actually burning down. Phone would probably be quicker...
#8212 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/01/11 21:58:47
phone was the course...
Invisible Func_wall
#8213 posted by ijed [190.20.123.105] on 2009/01/12 00:01:38
With a trigger next to it that killtargets it when touched by player - who'll never even know it was there.
That's assuming you don't need the thing to permanently block monster movement.
In Quoth it'd be a togglewall, or you could use a skipped func_wall, or else a clip brushed func_wall which has visible brushes on the extents. I mean visible as in not clip texture, embedded in geometry, with the functional centre being clip.
Killtargetting A Func_wall
#8214 posted by Preach [86.158.205.65] on 2009/01/12 00:21:52
Isn't that going to block lots of other important things though, like projectiles, and light of sight checks made by monsters?
Yes
#8215 posted by ijed [190.20.123.105] on 2009/01/12 01:47:10
But it's another solution. It could also be only 32 units high, which wouldn't block much, though would look wierd if it, with, say, a grenade.
Otherwise the holey floor would work as long as the monsters weren't jumping or flying. Or swimming ;)
Ideas
#8216 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2009/01/13 08:36:50
You could always use a clip wall with small regular brushes textured with skip at the extremes to stop it being glitchy and then kill it when the player gets close. That should work ok whilst allowing line of sight checks to work and projectiles to pass through.
Personally though, I prefer the tip posted by Metl, which I used in a couple of maps in the past - maybe even as far back as apsp1. I like that it doesn't block them movement of jumping or flying monsters, since I will typically want to use it to hold a sniper in place somehow. I may have actually made a small demo map to demonstrate this quirk of clipped brushmodels some time ago, so I will see if I can find it tonight.
Another way that requires no entities and will stop strict walking (no jump attack) monsters is to create a small break in the floor where you want them to stop. Monsters often have problems with floors that have a lot of holes in such as gratings because they do some kind of line of sight check to make sure there is ground below them. When there isn't, they won't keep moving forward. I think the crack only needs to be 16 units wide for it to work, though it needs to be a bit deeper than that. You could then cover the crack up with a func_illusionary if you wanted, though that is not neccessary, and would obviously look shit if a grenade fell in the crack.
Other suggestions include using a trigger monsterjump to fire the monster back very slightly (it may be worth experimenting with speed and angles here) or just embedding it slightly in the wall, which requires no extra entities but is a bit hacky and might not work in all engines.
All of these tips should work in vanilla quake.
Sorry
#8217 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2009/01/13 08:38:16
didn't notice metl had already posted the tip about using a gap in the floor.
Sorry
#8218 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2009/01/13 08:38:16
didn't notice metl had already posted the tip about using a gap in the floor.
Also Sorry For The Doublepost And...
#8219 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2009/01/13 08:46:09
it was preach who posted the tip I said I like, not metl. Here are some links about the tip:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... (my post about this tip)
http://than.quaddicted.com/files/i... < the broken link was moved here...
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... (preach's previous post on this tip)
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... (tips and tricks thread... full of useful tips)
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... (monsterclip trick by preach... a bit scary sounding :)
Monsterclip: Ffs
#8220 posted by [88.70.82.32] on 2009/01/13 09:26:02
trigger_monsterjump with low values - height 10, speed 10. if you want it killable, use the info_notnull hack.
#8221 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/13 11:14:10
"trigger_monsterjump with low values - height 10, speed 10. if you want it killable, use the info_notnull hack."
That's interesting. Can anyone think of why this wouldn't work? The monster might get stuck in a perpetual state of falling or something.
But
#8222 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2009/01/13 11:51:15
monsters still go through their attack routine whatever state they are in I think. if they are being flung through the air I think they still attack.
Not 100% on that though.
#8223 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/13 12:26:30
The problem you'd have though, I think, is that the monster will never get the message. Sure, they'd be rejected by the jump trigger but that will never get them to change their route. They'll just run into the trigger forever, looking retarded.
Necros:
#8224 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2009/01/13 13:37:27
i think clip brushes in func_s do stop player movement. i'm pretty sure i tried that once, but it was a long time ago
clip brushes in funcs work correctly, as long as they are inside the bounding box of the visible part of the func. Quake (stupidly) doesn't bother doing collision detection against other entities when those entities are outside the visible part of the func.
Monsterjump
#8225 posted by ijed [190.20.98.53] on 2009/01/15 02:39:08
Does work, I forgot that one.
I think I used it with 0 vert ~5 horiz once.
Does The Info_intermission (?)
#8226 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/21 22:32:30
or whatever it is (the cameras for the scores between levels), er, do they take up room in the signon buffer?
Buffers For Shoes
#8227 posted by Preach [81.153.28.150] on 2009/01/21 23:32:40
The client doesn't know about them, because they don't have a model set, so they aren't transmitted between levels.
If you are having trouble with your signon buffer being too large, the easiest thing to reduce is the number of entities which have a model set at time zero. Static entities count towards this limit, but the only thing you can do about them is remove some.
It's worth noting that things which have modelindex != 0 do in fact count towards this total. I managed to discover this when I tried updating the quoth code to use this code for teleporting monsters:
http://inside3d.com/showtutorial.p...
The line of code which hides the monster:
self.model = "";
is not enough to stop the monster being sent in the signon buffer, and consequently ne_marb started overflowing. If anybody uses that tutorial, it is advised to add
self.modelindex = 0; just after that, a trick which triggers already use.
I suspect though that the map which is hitting the limit is already a quoth map, and so you can't code your way out of it. In which case, I can suggest one or two entity hacks which might save you...
The first suggestion I have is to make some entities spawn later than they usually would, so they are sent in an update after the signon buffer. The candidate I'm thinking of is a func_wall, which is relatively safe to use. But be warned that it should not be done in the following cases:
* If anything is going to spawn on top of the func_wall
* If the func_wall is using an external model in quoth which wouldn't be spawned otherwise
* if there's some other reason that it needs to be in place from the start - don't worry about the player seeing it
Ok, so that's the plan, here's how we do it:
Change the classname of the func_wall to a info_notnull (hello old friend!). Give it the following keys:
self.nextthink = 0.2;
self.think = func_wall;
Can you guess what it does? It uses the fact that classnames are also functions ( http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... ) so that the func_wall initialisation is actually run as a think function just after the signon buffer is sent.
If you can't get enough mileage out of doing this on func_walls, you could look at doing it to other entities. Complex things like doors are probably a bad idea because the parts of the door have to link. You have to be careful that the spawn function doesn't do anything like precaching sounds or models, and you can't do it with static entities - they MUST be in the signon buffer.
Quoth is a bit more forgiving in this regard, as long as the model required has been precached by something during worldspawn, the actual attempt to precache it again later on is suppressed by the code. So you could do this trick on monsters for example - but then why not just give them the silent and teleporter flags, and teleport them in a second after the map spawns? It avoids using a hack to do it, and that bug about the signon buffer above has been caught and fixed ;-).
Preach
#8228 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/21 23:40:22
You are a legend, but allas - 'tis too late!
No fault of your own though, obviously, its just that i have weakened and folded....
Preach
#8229 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/22 01:59:05
the stuff i've seen you do without modifying a single line of code is godly.
been meaning to say that for a bit now...
#8230 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/22 11:31:01
I agree and echo the sentiment, Preach. Your level of knowledge in the area of Quake is incredible. Thanks for always being so willing to help with questions and being so eager to share.
Heh
#8231 posted by Preach [86.148.15.145] on 2009/01/22 19:48:56
See, I've been meaning to make a post on exactly the opposite thing - how to code things in such a way to defend against mappers hacking them.
Would people like to read that, or is denying people the fun of entity hacking just too much?
#8232 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/01/22 19:50:53
I guess it depends. What would be your reasoning for preventing hacks?
Versioning
#8233 posted by Preach [86.148.15.145] on 2009/01/23 00:47:57
If you are making a mod which lots of mappers are going to use, but which isn't final - you may release a new version of this mod in the future, then you have to worry that all of the old maps will work in your new version. In an ideal world all you would need to maintain is the advertised features in your documentation.
Of course, the documentation of what you intended is never finished, and it can be hard enough just maintaining things as you add new code (see: quoth 2.0). If people start using "unadvertised features" in maps, then you can get stuck. You would like to make some change to something you thought was internal, but that will actually break the hack in some existing map.
So I guess the message here is that performing hacks in maps for id1 progs is basically safe because there won't ever be another patch for quake, 1.08 is the end. Since it's going to be unchanging, you can get away with a lot more. With a mod that might in the future. With a mod that might come out with a new version, you probably should colour inside the lines for the most part.
In my defence for suggesting the func_wall trick, it is actually surprisingly hard to break with a mod, since the features it uses (think, nextthink, classname) are all hardcoded engine behaviours. The only thing you could really do to wreck it is change info_notnull to set think/nextthink(which seems pointless for an entity designed to do nothing) or change func_wall to do something that isn't safe after worldspawn like precaching things. So I think it's safe to say that will work in future Quoth versions.
#8234 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/23 01:01:07
Oh, honestly, I think you're off the hook there. I know about best intentions and all but if someone is leveraging a bug or a hack in your mod that you haven't documented and that breaks in the next version - so sorry, but oh well.
That's not an unreasonable position to take. Use the documented features only or risk getting burned. That's totally fair.
And, really, I'd rather have the freedom that the hacks provide rather than mod authors going through the work to lock everything down.
Yeah Preach - You Shouldn't Worry About It
#8235 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/23 01:11:57
because the person who is making the dodgy hacked map has a copy of the original progs he was using anyway, so if a later version breaks the hack then the player/mapper just has to roll back his version.
And you guys have catered for that by releasing the individual parts of quoth, upgrade by upgrade...
Defending Against Hacks
#8236 posted by Preach [81.153.25.42] on 2009/01/24 01:44:21
It's reassuring to hear that, I'll worry less about people hacking. As a future warning, don't hack anything to do with path_corners in quoth, they don't work like they used to in quake, and they are going to change...
Even so, I'm gonna post how you do it anyway, because at the bottom there are two alternate applications of the ideas. And also because the second way in here is a really cool trick that I've never seen anyone post about before.
So if you do want to defend against a hack, what can you do? Well, to my knowledge there are three ways of defending against things, from the very specific to the very general. Even if you don't think you'd want to actively prevent a hack in your code, you might find some useful information at the bottom of the post about making entities more friendly to modification while maintaining sensible defaults.
If you are concerned about somebody putting an unhelpful value in one specific fields for a specific entity, then the way to prevent it is simply to set that field during the spawn function to a correct value. For example, if you have a monster which gets enraged after firing 10 missile attacks, and you count the shots fired so far in self.shotcount, you probably don't want people to be able to set .shotcount to 10 so that the monster is enraged straight away, so you can add
self.shotcount = 0;
in the spawnfunction. Although it sounds like a trivial thing there, you can prevent people from giving your entity a use function(assuming it normally lacks one) with
self.use = SUB_Null;
You could even preempt people making your entity shootable and killable by forcing
self.takedamage = 0;
self.th_die = SUB_Null;
...although some people might call that paranoid. This method is in a sense exclusive, you chose which fields you are going to prevent being set. If you start doing too much of this stuff, you should instead look at the third suggestion.
The second idea is one I've never really used because the idea only just came to me after discovering a light.exe feature. Rather than preventing people from custom-setting one field in a particular entity, this one lets you prevent a person setting the field in ANY entites. A good example of something that might warrant this protection is .super_damage_finished . The super_damage_finished field makes an attacking entity do quad damage so long as the map time is less than its super_damage_finished value. It's a bit of an ugly hack using that to get monsters with deadly weapons.
The fix is to rename the field to begin with an underscore, like _super_damage_finished. Any field which starts with an underscore gets stripped from an entity as it is loaded by the engine. This is intended so that light tools could read extra fields on lights, which had sensible names preceeded by underscores. These fields then wouldn't cause warnings if the qc omitted their definition. What we are doing is flipping that, creating a field which is only used by the qc and never from the map, rather than always by the map(via tools) and never in the qc.
For those of you who are c++/java fluent, I've come to think of this trick as creating public and private fields on entities(with respect to the map loading).
Defending Against Long Posts
#8237 posted by Preach [81.153.25.42] on 2009/01/24 01:45:35
If you want to go further in the other direction, protecting almost all of the fields on a specific class of entity, then there is a pattern you can use in your spawn-function:
void() func_protected =
{
local entity template;
precache_sound ("misc/whine.wav");
template = self;
// we spawn a new entity with all fields blank
self = spawn();
self.classname = "func_protected";
//at this point you copy across all the fields you do want to inherit from the mapper
self.model = template.model;
self.health = template.health;
//...
//then you perform the setup on self as you would expect, eg:
setmodel(self,self.model);
//...
//finally, get rid of the template, since it is no longer needed
remove(template);
}
This gives you complete control on what can be set on your entity.
Although you may not see the need to do this for the reason of protecting an entity, there is a related construction which is more useful. Suppose you have a mod where several "rounds" of a game are played without the map restarting, but you want to reset the arena between rounds. How do you handle resetting something like a breakable wall, which may or may not have been destroyed during the round?
Method 1 would be to have a reset function which desperately tries to reset to zero all of the fields which might have been changed during the previous round on the wall. If it was destroyed, then the model field has probably been cleared, so you will need to store that information somewhere else, and you'll need to recall it's starting health from .max_health, and there are tons of things that could go wrong.
Method 2 is to use adapt the func_protected example above. The original entity placed by the mapper remains entire unchanging for the whole game, and we call this the "template". We split the above spawn function into two parts:
- the bit which precaches all the resources, which will run at worldspawn
- the bit which makes a new entity, copies the required info from the template, and sets it up
The latter function is called every time a new round starts, after the entity from the previous round has been removed. You should of course delete the line which removes the template from this version of the function!
(for c++/java people, this is a quake kinda way for doing the factory paradigm)
Finally, the flip side to the first method of protecting things(one field for a particular entity) is how to make a field customisable while still having a sensible default. Here are some methods for making the health of a shootable func_crate alterable (default:45), from the most common to the most bizzare:
if(!self.health)
self.health = 45;
This just takes the case that the mapper has set nothing, and makes it 45. We could fairly easily improve this to also perform a sanity check for negative health:
if(self.health <= 0)
self.health = 45;
We might instead decide to add whatever value of self.health is set by the mapper to 45.
self.health = self.health + 45;
This will still maintain the default at 45, but it's probably less sensible than the above methods in this case, as it would be confusing. There might be cases other than health where it would be a more sensible way.
WTF, You Double Agent!
#8238 posted by negke [88.70.253.64] on 2009/01/24 10:07:57
First you lead us to the dark side of the progs, now you advertise methods of preventing the use of hacks... I can't map without them!
But yeah, mod/version conflicts are a potential problem indeed. Take the differences in model/precache handling in Quoth 1 and 2 for example. I had to come up with a crude way of progs detection in my 768 map in order to make the backpacks in the end arena appear correctly in each version.
Didn't You Understood ?
#8239 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/01/24 11:32:28
Preach is working for an antivirus program provider company: those guys are hackers one day, and the other they sell you the latest update of their tool... swindler !!!
#8240 posted by [194.65.24.228] on 2009/01/27 16:48:58
is it possible to teleport weapons in ID1?
Nope
#8241 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.181] on 2009/01/27 17:20:37
Hah
#8242 posted by Mr Fribbles [118.208.204.13] on 2009/01/28 16:18:11
Didn't stop the Reaperbot... impossible CHEATAR!
#8243 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2009/01/30 18:05:39
I have a map file for quake that I have created with Hammer. I would like to continue working on this map using the QuakeED editor. Is there a tool to convert the map file to the right format?
#8244 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/01/30 18:52:38
Hammer. :P
Do You Mean
#8245 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/30 19:35:30
.map? there's an export to .map option in hammer.
#8246 posted by Ankh [91.203.96.57] on 2009/01/30 22:47:57
The exported map is in a different format. Aguirres tools can handle it but other editors can't I guess.
Valve 220 Texture Data
#8247 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.37.149] on 2009/01/30 23:08:43
Yeah
#8248 posted by ijed [190.20.127.130] on 2009/01/31 00:26:16
It's a pain in the nuts.
Export to .map and use a notepad++ find / replace function?
Probably a long shot though.
Hm
#8249 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/31 00:28:49
possibly try using aguire's map converter utility? if you pass the .map through without actually doing anything, maybe it'll strip out the extraneous data when it parses the file?
Just Checked
#8250 posted by ijed [190.20.127.130] on 2009/01/31 01:37:58
Between the two and it wouldn't work - not only is there more data, but its also rearranged, and alot of it is single numbers.
Convmap might be worth a shot, yeah, otherwise I'd suggest just continuing with WC for now.
Func_door - Ignore Enroach?
#8251 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/01/31 23:11:39
Is there a way to get a func_door to close regardless of what it's hitting? Say I want 2 doors to crush anything passing between them - at the moment, the one door immediately retreats back it's starting position while the other works as normal.
Is this fixable?
Only Way
#8252 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/01/31 23:28:23
is to set:
'wait' '-1'
'toggle' '1'
and manually retrigger to close after opening.
#8253 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2009/02/01 02:45:57
isn't there a "crusher" flag that prevents doors from reopening on impact?
Not For Normal Quake?
#8254 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/01 02:52:31
#8255 posted by negke [88.70.55.5] on 2009/02/01 10:00:06
The crusher flag is called "dmg" and should prevent the door from reopening if the value is high enough. And if not, give both doors the same "team" field.
#8256 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/02/01 12:00:36
The "team" field didn't seem to work. The "dmg" is set at 10,000 so that should be high enough.
I dunno, I added a new spawnflag (SF_CRUSHER) and added a quick IF condition to the "door_blocked" function. That seemed to do it.
Crusherflag
#8257 posted by Preach [86.158.203.166] on 2009/02/01 15:01:35
Necros had it right first time about the crushing behaviour, it comes from setting wait to a negative number. Quoth the source(door_blocked):
// if a door has a negative wait, it would never come back if blocked,
// so let it just squash the object to death real fast
if (self.wait >= 0)
{
if (self.state == STATE_DOWN)
door_go_up ();
else
door_go_down ();
}
So as long as self.wait is less that 0 the door doesn't change direction.
QMLE
#8258 posted by [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/05 18:20:15
After several bumps in Quake modelling I won't get used to the fact a modelframe exported to dxf has a unique vertice and trianglecount.
It may be my poor knowledge of triangles and vertices but when I import this file in another editor and try to export them back to Qmle the vertices turn out higher and triangles are doubled.
I know it has something to do with triangles turned into quads and vice versa, but why doesn't these counts stay the same?
I don't add anything so that can't be the reason.
Is it the 8bit configuration, and nowadays 3Dstudio's 16 or 32bit?
Don't Think So
#8259 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/02/05 18:28:05
I've never had the issue, to be honest, but many do.
If you're working with editable poly then the 7 key isn't showing you a valid vertice / face count - change to mesh while working and the number practically doubles.
As a typical safety thing I'd export the model, open it, select all verts and do a weld within a distance of 0 then export and see if it opens.
If not then the model is bad from the start - having a vertex spike, multiple vertices in the same position etc.
No Clue
#8260 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/05 19:46:26
you're using 3ds max? make sure when you export that you only export the mesh.
3dsmax will export your bones as geometry without telling you. these may not show up if you import the frame alone into qme3.1 (ie: when they're inside the character mesh), but they will change the vertex/face count preventing you from combining the frame with the original model.
it's important to note that the reason it does this is because bones actually are just geometry. in fact, you can make your own bones out of boxes, spheres, splines, etc. the bones that max makes just have a premade shape to make it easier.
this also means that adding bones will increase the polycount in max's built in counter, so you should completely ignore that counter.
i've successfully used both custom rigs and biped in quake, so keep at it and check everything because it is possible.
Paradigm Shift
#8261 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/05 19:47:32
&startI'd really suggest that you start by not thinking of the .mdl format as the best container for your model. mdl format is not a robust way to store information about a 3D model, so you're always going to run into problems with this kind of thing. Repeated saving to .mdl while making changes can make the vertices wobble more than they need to, etc, although we love them because they render in quake engines we must accept mdl is bad.
(see also: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... onwards)
The way I think of it now is that you make your model in another editor, in a better format like .max (substitute a format of choice for the rest of this post), and then EXPORT to .mdl right at the end of the editing process. If I then decide that I want to add another animation to that model, I chuck out the .mdl format copy that currently exists, make the changes in the .max version, then export the .mdl again.
It's usually helpful if your pipeline to convert from .max format to .mdl is short and hands-off, you don't want to have to rotate/reflect/move the model at all during this process, in case you need to do it many times. Adding stuff like skins is a bit of a hassle, and you certainly don't want to be changing animations! Ideally, you don't even need to open the mdl during the conversion process, just export and then drop it in your progs directory. This might require a bit of trial and error in your main editor to get the model correctly scaled and rotate in game, which again is easier once the pipeline is short.
The problem often arises at the starting point, if you're trying to modify an existing .mdl file. It can be tempting to just keep working with the .mdl format, because it's "practically there" already. Even so, I think it's best to just import the model into .max format right at the start of the project, and make sure it matches up when you export it again. From there you can edit as normal.
(This post brought to you by 3DMax Studio, a piece of software Preach doesn't even own...)
Mdl
#8262 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/06 20:01:07
Ijed - I supose you're working in Max3d? As long as I use Qmle and Quark4.07 nothing goes wrong, but I'm tightened to only use manupulating tools like vetice change and rotating. Every output like the Qmle's dxf, or Milkshape's 3ds are the only way to keep the model clear. If I import to Max3D I haven't got the knowhow yet to even ad bones.
Necros - As I said I'm using the Am2000 studio I bought because it is the one that uses mdl files. Bad enough it is an other extentions then Ol'Quake uses. But it can import the dxf/3DS files. If it would be the creepy bone addon count I can't imagine 12 bones with 5 counterparts would end up in a double vertice count.
There the thing goes wrong and I can't get a grip on it.
Exporting them to one poly by count brings me the same model in QMLE, but I cant get up to the double verticecount.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/am200...
Preach - I'm trying in the Max3D studio, but as I have hardly experience with it I can't make a thing of it. Max3D can't import mdl files I thought? I tried most extentions for in and export but I don't know how that double layer triangles appears.
Pathway
#8263 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/06 20:58:06
Ok, here's the pipeline I work with in gmax, and I'm pretty sure that it can be replicated in max3d.
Import:
MDL
use QMe to save it as
MD2
import into 3dsmax ( http://host-a.net/getfile.php?user... is a plugin for this step, which I haven't tried out)
MAX
I'm pretty sure that the mdl->md2 conversion doesn't do any harm, since in theory this conversion can be done exactly. If it turns out I'm wrong and it does wobble the vertices more, I'll probably write a quick program to do the conversion in this direction without the wobble. (*)
Export
MAX
export to MD3(there are loads of plugins which do this)
MD3
convert to MDL(I used to use quark for this, but since it's a pain to get working, I wrote http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter... for this step)
MDL
And the job is done.
_________________________
(*) I've moved the whole technical discussion from this post into a footnote. Ok, here's the deal with MD2. It still compresses vertex coordinates into a single byte like MDL, but the scale factor is slightly different. Instead of having one scale factor for the entire model, like quake 1 does, MD2 has a scale vector per frame. This gives you more control, but is often counterproductive.
For example, you might look at your source model, calculate the bounding box of the vertices in each frame, and then use the corresponding scale per frame. This affords you as fine a grain resolution as one byte can carry in each frame. The problem is that it can create much greater "floaty vertex syndrome", because the grid that all of your vertices snap to is changing every frame. If you had a sequence where the arm of your character waves, but the body remains mostly still, then the body ends up wobbling as the extent of the arm is changing the size of the bounding box.
It could be argued that the MDL method has an equally bad problem, that vertices can end up not moving at all from one frame to the next if the movements are slight. But I'd disagree on two points there. One is that the motion is more regular in time for MDL, stop-starts is compensated for by the brain better than random noise is. The other is that MDL motion is more controlled in space - if the head is just bobbing up and down during this wave animation, the vertices won't move left to right in the MDL. However, if the arm is changing the width of the bounding box in MD2 then the head might wobble from side to side, and the rounding effect might even make vertices go in opposite directions as the grid changes, some left, so right (or worse, some up and some down!)
If you agreed with me, then you might try and write a more sophisticated MD2 exporter. It could first look through all the frames in a sequence, and try to create groups of frames where the bounding box stays within 10% of the max in the group. Then it would use the same bounding box for that whole group. You might even relate bounding box changes to the amount of movement in the whole model, rather than just changes in the limits.
In any case, I've been a bit dishonest there contrasting MDL to MD2 because you can exactly replicate MDL behaviour with an MD2. Just set the same scale in every frame in the model! This is why during the import, it should be safe to convert from MDL to MD2, no information should be lost. Of course, going the other way you can't get an exact replica of every MD2 as a MDL, which is why we have MD3 as the intermediate format in that direction.
Typo
#8264 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/06 21:00:29
I've moved the whole technical discussion from this post into a footnote.
should in fact read:
I've moved the whole technical discussion from this post into Appendix A.
Interesting,
#8265 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/06 21:56:44
my approach is:
MDL
QME3.1 -> export .dxf frame.
Import .dxf into MAX
*animation stuff here*
Export all frames as .dxf
QME3.1 -> batch import frames
Pac
#8266 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/07 00:18:49
thanks for the mdl importer, Preach. I'm not familiar with max as I'm just learning the basic lessons. I'll try them out!
I never had the idea to make the files mdl2 or mdl3. I do use the old q2mdlr9b which can import and export Q1 /2 files.
Hmm
#8267 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/07 01:13:32
I seem to remember that, but it brings back memories of the mdl exporting not being 100% reliable, and it isn't an ideal tool for creating animations in either.
I also remember the first times I was trying to make models like this, and I also got frustrated with the exact same pifalls: tools changing triangle orders, messing me about, declaring the conversion to mdl impossible all of a sudden. Things got much easier once I had some reliable tools to import and export models around, and a good editor like gmax to do all the editing. One thing that it really takes experience to know is exactly what kind of models you can make which will still convert to quake format. Once you have that down, it's much easier to do everything in a high-end editor and leave the conversion to the end.
And...
#8268 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/07 01:24:00
And I really have to add that the most valuable thing I learnt is MD3 format is really your friend when it comes to exporting time.
As long as your MD3 is a single mesh*, then it can be converted to quake with only a loss of accuracy in the animations, the skinmap, smoothing and frames can all be converted. So seriously, find an editor which can export to MD3(blender, gmax, 3dsmax, maya all do), give it a try, and I'll bet you won't go back.
* "A single mesh" here doesn't mean that all the triangles have to be connected in a continuous object. It's a technical thing about MD3s, you can have multiple "meshes" making up a single MD3, which then get joined together with tags. Each of these meshes can have it's own skinmap, but MDL format will only accept 1 skin, and can't do anything with the tags. I'm not saying that it would be impossible to combine the skinmaps side by side and line up the tags, but it would be a bit hard for an automated tool to do well...
Hugh
#8269 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/07 17:33:47
That makes things a bit clearer. So it seems that mdl2 and md3 are the extentions I have to look for.
The qmld2r9b seems a good programm as it comes to exporting 3DS. I have never come further then in and exporting extentions in it, as the skinpainter is weird with the pal format and I never knew how to add bones.
The only trick i do is importing in AM2000 so I can attach bones to make the animation. While exporting back to QMLE the verticecount doubles, but as I'm making a new model from base that won't matter.
I surely need more knowhow of Max or Blender.
But as I bought AM2000 I have the import ext:
dxf lit seg mdl(own to program) ply 3ds av2
which are quiet a lot.
Export extentions are only four:
ply 3DS av2 mdl (own to program ie not the quake mdl).
Counts
#8270 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/08 09:01:44
Had a quick steamup with max3d and now I've managed to import an enforcer into max with a 3ds file.
I'm on the point that I have bones which are roughly devided over the model. But before going further I decided to check if my model still is on the same count.
Then I see I can only export 3ds and it has one vertice less?
So I import an enforcer
222 vertices 424 triangles
and it comes out as
221 vertices 424 triangles
#8271 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/08 09:13:32
have you tried importing the enforcer and then exporting it again without doing anything at all in a completely fresh document?
if you're still losing a vertex then i'm not quite sure what's up... it shouldn't merge vertices on it's own. :S
Yeah
#8272 posted by ijed [190.20.96.43] on 2009/02/08 15:07:34
That's wierd.
The safe, but tedious, option is to export all frames to max then create a new .mdl - treating it as a completely new model.
Well
#8273 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/08 19:57:28
Here are some screenies to fill in the case...
I import an enf.3DS in Max3D and export it unchanged back to QMLE:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/max3....
http://members.home.nl/gimli/max4....
Nothing wrong.
Then I import the model and make my animations, export it to 3DS:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/max1....
http://members.home.nl/gimli/max2....
Max3D shows the right count but Qmle seem to import it different.(?!)
Triangles
#8274 posted by Preach [86.150.195.44] on 2009/02/08 20:08:20
You've actually gained some triangles there too. I wouldn't expect the import/export process to actually create an identical model though. If I followed my pattern of import cia MD2, then export via MD3, I'd expect the vertex count of a regular quake model to increase quite a bit, because you'd lose all the onseam information, as no other format supports that.
It's just another advantage of recreating the .mdl file from scratch each time, rather than trying to import new frames into an existing one: You don't have to worry if there's an extra vertex or if the triangle count has changed, you just start with a blank slate each time.
Skyboxes And Water In Quake (darkplaces Client)
#8275 posted by Zylyx_ [92.41.38.212] on 2009/02/16 22:49:13
hey just two questions.
How do I add custom skyboxes to my quake maps? I'm using WC 3.3 and the Darkplaces client for my Quake maps. I have a sky texture in my dev.wad called "sky", and I added the "sky" key in the worldspawn entity with the name of my sky texture as the value.
I have 6 sky texture files in my quakedir/mymod/textures dir with the names followed by the recommended HL mapping suffixes of bk, ft, rt, lt, up and dn.
However, when I test my map, I get a black box around my test level.
Also, I have a water texture in my wad with the name "!water", and it's 64x64 (as recommended), but in the game it shows it as one solid tiled chunk, and I cant swim in it.
Any help is appreciated. Thnx.
#8276 posted by [88.70.233.15] on 2009/02/16 23:03:05
The skybox images have to be in /mymod/gfx/env and liquid textures require "*" in front of the name (not "!").
Correction...
#8277 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/02/16 23:48:25
can't have a filename with * in it, so i think you use # instead.
Oh Oh...
#8278 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/02/16 23:49:39
nevermind, if it's inside a wad file, you use '*' as post #8276 says. if it's an external texture file, then use '#'
Well I Dont Use Anything
#8279 posted by RickyT23 [82.3.70.106] on 2009/02/17 01:15:45
Bareback baby! :P
Just check out one of my maps, I think they all have skyboxes except for the speedmap and the remix of e4m1. But off the top of my head i think I just called them duskeft, duskebk or whatever.
I downloaded them from kell.quaddicted.com, I remember having to delete a _ from each one.
#8280 posted by RickyT23 [82.3.70.106] on 2009/02/17 01:17:37
maybe i didnt have to even delete the character if i had put the key "sky" "duske_"
#8281 posted by Zylyx [193.60.164.182] on 2009/02/17 11:21:02
Cool thanx for the info, I'll try it out later on today and get back to you on it.
Got Water But No Sky
#8282 posted by Zylyx [92.41.166.64] on 2009/02/17 13:49:06
Ok, I got the water working, but I still dont have a skybox.
I have a "sky" key with the value "skybox_" in my worldspawn entity list.
My sky textures are in mymod/gfx/env/, and are named as:
skybox_lt
skybox_lf
skybox_up
skybox_dn
skybox_ft
skybox_bk
and they are in 24bit .bmp format.
any suggestions :) ?
Minor Success
#8283 posted by Zylyx [92.41.166.64] on 2009/02/17 14:03:42
Ok, if I load my map and type in "loadsky skybox_" in the console, then it loads it, which asks the questiosn of whether or not WC is even taking into account the entity list change that I made in worldspawn. Also, I found out that the key should perhaps be "loadsky" instead of "sky", but I dont know if this is correct. And finaly, if I add "skybox_" with qoutes as the value to the key "loadsky", the map compiler says that it cant find mymap.bsp in the compile directory. Wierd huh?
All Better
#8284 posted by Zylyx [92.41.166.64] on 2009/02/17 14:15:15
Ok, got it fixed, I changed the key to "sky" and the value to "skybox_". The sky loads now, but there are visible seams, which I'm guessing is because it's loading the wrong textures on the faces of the skybox.
Loadsky
#8285 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.236] on 2009/02/17 14:19:54
That is a JoeQuake syntax. Isnt it?
Well my skyboxes (Kells skyboxes) are not of .bmp format but TGA.
skybox_lt
skybox_lf
skybox_up
skybox_dn
skybox_ft
skybox_bk
the first line "skybox_lt" should be "rt" although I believe this is just a typo that you put into the post.
Try removing the _ from the value in the worldspawn and the names of the images.
Dont worry, it will work eventually :)
Darkplaces, AguirRe's GLQuake and FitzQuake all definately work with the key "sky", that is the normal way of doing it.
And finaly, if I add "skybox_" with qoutes as the value to the key "loadsky", the map compiler says that it cant find mymap.bsp in the compile directory. Wierd huh?
Big can of worms - "compile DIR". Just make sure that all of your bsp and map files, as well as the tools you use are inside "quake\id1", and that Worldcraft is set accordingly. Then you will avoid any annoying "file not found" errors.
Also in WC save your map and click "export to map file", then open the map file in Notepad or a text editor (not Word). The Worldspawn is right at the top of the file. You can edit/add keys/values this way, just save the file.
Learn to use your compile tools with a command prompt also, as the WC process window can be buggy as hell.....
let us know what happens when you remove the "_"s and make sure that the skyboxes are 24 bit targas (TGAs), leave the key as "sky". That should work really......
Oh Sorry Crossed In The Post :P
#8286 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.236] on 2009/02/17 14:22:44
Try your map with different engines. Im not sure all of them will load BMP files as skyboxes. Also JoeQuake and some other engines (Qrack, Tomaz, QMB) might not load the skybox, and you'll have to type loadsky blah.
Darkplaces AGlQuake and Fitz should all work though :)
It Works Now
#8287 posted by _Zylyx [193.60.164.198] on 2009/02/17 15:43:23
Thnx for the info. It works now.
I got all of mt sky textures as skybox_lt, skybox_rt, etc, in my mymod/gfx/env/ dir. All of the sky textures are in 24bit .tga file format. I put in the "sky" key in the worldspawn along with the "skybx_" value. I got everything to compile fine.
I should make a note that I'm using hmap2.exe for my compiling, which i think is written by LordHavoc for use with DP.
The only slight bug I have with the skyboxes is that there are big visible seams, because the textures are not aligned properly, but this is due to the fact of what I think is the case of my saying "skybox_rt (right)" and DP saying "skybox_rt (left)". I'll fiddle with that and get backt o you.
The reason for all of this sudden commotion is because I started working on my mod. I'm experimenting with making HUGE maps (as in they go way off past the grid in the WC editor). I want to make GTA-like city levels. I got a few ideas I wanna try out.
OK
#8288 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.236] on 2009/02/17 16:11:10
But remember that if you make the level too big it will take infinity to visually optimise (vis) so keep an eye on your details (marksurfaces, clipnodes etc etc).
#8289 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/02/17 16:11:56
Yeah, my coagula map is already starting to kick my machines ass in VIS time. Grrr...
Vis...
#8290 posted by Zylyx [193.60.164.198] on 2009/02/17 16:22:36
I donn know much about the technicalities of VIS, or BSP tree's for that matter. I do know that the VIS program creates portals, which are sort of like ares that are visible, while other areas are not, because they are hidden bu occulders (or something like that). I believe that it's also used to like determine the visibility of the surfaces which are affected by the lighting in the level. Perhaps I got it all wrong.
Well
#8291 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.236] on 2009/02/17 16:56:02
If your map is like one big arena this is the worst possible scenario, because each portal can see most of the other portals and this takes a lot of time for the program to process. JPL's Castle of the Dark Ages is a very bad map for this and took 50 days for his computer to run vis. Three Towers and a Sick Base was a harsh learning curve for me in the wonderfull world of vis, that map took 6 and a half days to vis. Some of Tronyns maps are also like this. So making a huge map like you describe could work but you will have to keep the details pretty low, so that there are minimum portals.
Some of Ijed's maps in WARPSPASM are massive, some of the biggest levels ever, but he used effective vis-blocking (making sure that the map is broken up by walls and cleverly placed bends in corridors) amd vis times we're comparitively short for him.
Dont confuse vis-blocking with Worldcraft's vis-groups feature, they are completely unrelated.
A massive city could work if all of the buildings touch the sky and are flat on top, and all of a similar height (they will act as barriers and stop the vis process from considering too much of what is on the other side of them), but if you make it so that all of the rooftops are accessible then your finished map will take a huge amount of time to vis.
And your r_speeds will be very high, causeing even modern machines to stutter and suffer frame rate drops.
Please go and make a huge map with good gameplay and vis-blocking :)
Also hmap2 tools are not the best (sorry Lordhavoc), better use these:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
:)
#8292 posted by _Zylyx [92.41.125.102] on 2009/02/17 19:38:31
Thanx for all that info,and I downloaded your tools, so I'll check them out. Is there perhaps some official guide (as in more technical), that specificaly covers what each compile tool does and how to get the most out of it?
There Is On That Website.
#8293 posted by RickyT23 [82.3.70.106] on 2009/02/17 20:46:32
Look in Quake 1 Tooltips at the bottom of the page.:)
The tools are probably the best for the Quake engine generally, rather than Darkplaces specifically. The idea of doing a GTA style mod would work if you meant GTA1 or GTA2, but seeing as you're asking about a skybox I figure you had a greater vision ;)
Lordhavocs website has all of the details for his tools and engine, but it really is the compiling which would screw you up! You could do a fast-vis "vis.exe -level 1" release which wouldnt take so long as a full compile, but it's not a healthy way of doing things.
Or so they tell me...
#8294 posted by Willem [71.70.208.255] on 2009/02/18 10:49:05
"You could do a fast-vis "vis.exe -level 1" release which wouldnt take so long as a full compile, but it's not a healthy way of doing things. "
Not sure what you mean here but it's definitely a good idea while working on the map. You don't want to eat 6 days every time you want to test the map. :)
RickyT123
#8295 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/02/18 11:47:38
Generally during map development only fastvis is usefull... and then you can face really evil runtime on final fullvis if your vis blocking is crapy.... believe me :(
I Know Man
#8296 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.236] on 2009/02/18 12:53:41
You and me both :)
I have never released a final version with a fast-vis, it gives crappy performance :)
RickyT123
#8297 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/02/18 15:02:22
The main problem is that fullvis runtime can vary in between minutes, and months !! And there's no possibility to predict what it will be before the first test... that is generally for me the last run :P
I Usually
#8298 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/02/18 15:40:33
Work with fastvis but do a fullvis a couple of times a week - so there's no nasty surprises later on.
#8299 posted by Trinca [89.180.60.33] on 2009/02/18 18:12:22
me to, at least once a week i made one
Months For VIS??
#8300 posted by Zylyx_ [92.41.156.68] on 2009/02/18 18:33:01
That's really wierd, seeing as most people have like quad core CPU's and gigabytes of RAM, I'd imagine it would take at most a few hours. Then again, I do come from a general 3D background, where I'm used to seeing fully raytraced renderes scenes in minutes (sometimes hours).
#8301 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/02/18 18:38:52
I'm with you there. I don't know how people are invoking levels that take weeks or months to VIS on modern day machines, but they claim they are. :)
Apart From Compensating For Something
#8302 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.116] on 2009/02/18 18:42:53
They could blame QuArK, but for some reason they are even defending it.
Vis
#8303 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/18 19:52:04
I remembered with the Koho-vis test my computer ended upon 11 minutes, which I thought quiet fast.
The map I was making turned out on 87% after 5 days and it was there already 2 days.
I scratched the map because of 3 homs and started all over again.
Now making sure all polys were on integer grid.
The map turned out alright. And it still takes 6 houres, but that's understandable, having all on grid.
Still 2 homs prevent me from publishing it.
Spirit
#8304 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/18 21:11:52
It is not the tool you are using (i.e QuArK), in my case this is the size of the map (i.e 7915 brushes), and the way it is built.
If you are doing crap, you can have the best equipment, it will not help you :P
Is Called Vis-blocking
#8305 posted by RickyT23 [82.3.70.106] on 2009/02/18 22:16:16
if you have a map which has 8000 marksurfaces and r_speeds never go past 400 then it will vis in a few minutes.
If you have a map with 40'000+ marksurfaces and r_speeds rarely drop below 20'000 (at level 4) then it will take days.
RickyT123
#8306 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/02/19 08:02:17
If you have a map with 40'000+ marksurfaces and r_speeds rarely drop below 20'000 (at level 4) then it will take days.
You are wrong: it can take a month !!!
Yes
#8307 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/02/19 13:51:10
Around 30.
Ok...but
#8308 posted by Zylyx_ [193.60.164.162] on 2009/02/19 14:18:13
that's still very very slow for something which todays machine should be able to compute in minutes.
#8309 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/02/19 15:02:49
just a tought, huge Q3 map take much time to compile?
Zylyx_
#8310 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/19 17:48:43
that's still very very slow for something which todays machine should be able to compute in minutes.
I would say yes and no: the limitations come from the VIS algorithm itself that is a recursive algorithm, so with very huge and complex map that has tons of volume to inspect (VIS is based onto volume rendering) the runtime becomes very high...
Also, a big processor, not to say a multi core processor, does not help that much. First because most of VIS tool are not coded for multi-core processor, and also compared to what I have, it would only save 20% of the runtime best case I guess (i.e i have an AMD Athlon 2600+), and the bottleneck is not only the CPU only but the motherboard fequency and peripherals access (i.e to memory particularly)
Anyway, when a process run for thousand of hours (more than a month) you have to be patient, so 2 or 3 days less will not make the difference there IMHO... as I don't have any manager pressure to sort out my map ;)
Intersting...
#8311 posted by _Zylyx [92.41.22.200] on 2009/02/19 19:38:10
This is very interesting. We were just talking about the saturation of CPU speeds in my computer and graphics architectures class today, especialy things like how the cpu works with fetching instructions (particurarly in terms of arithmetic processing dependacy and parallelism). It would be cool if there is a way to make this whole VIS process faster , actualy the entire compilation process, without having to sacrifice detail in the 3D model of the level. But I guess that would require re-writting a lot of things from scratch.
My interpretation of this is that the build tools such as the BSP, CSG, VIS and RAD perform a lot of heavy computations, which require CPU level ALU's (arithmetic logic unit) to compute. Seeing as todays dedicated graphics cards hold a lot of processing power, especialy when it comes to floating point calculations, and fully programmable rendering pipelines, I'm guessing it would possible to re-write and optimize the code to work the GPU's, which I'm assuming would speed things up dramaticaly. But who would want todo all that work :)?
All That Work?
#8312 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/19 21:49:18
The Old One.
Model Mesh
#8313 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/20 09:14:57
what makes the Q1 model files so irritating incompatible to handle...argh!
repeated message, i know but I almost learned Max3d manual on importing and exporting them.
They keep dragging on verticejumps and triangle catches.
Finally had my model boned and animated then it turned out rejected.
Starting from scratch won't mind, but manipulating excisting files can be a doughnut.
_Zylyx
#8314 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/02/20 10:03:44
I'm guessing it would possible to re-write and optimize the code to work the GPU's, which I'm assuming would speed things up dramaticaly.
Indeed, I know some application prefers to use GPU instead of the CPU, because of the ALU performances, but it needs to adapt the software to be adaptable to the GPU... though...
Anyway, Quake standard does not like big map. It has not been built for what we are asking today. The community is constantly asking for bigger / better / more detailed maps, even if the VIS tools have made impressive progresses (thanks aguirRe !), the overall runtime is suffering... but this sacrifice is worth supporting it, as it enables fabulous maps and projects...
I think I'll try to contact aguirRe to get his point of view about using GPU instead of CPU, maybe he would accrpt to try the porting... who knows ?
Monster Statue
#8315 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/21 18:53:51
Is it possible with Quoth to have monster statues, that will wake-up on trigger event ?
Lighting Question
#8316 posted by Mechtech [71.70.255.172] on 2009/02/21 19:38:25
#1 I use WC 1.6 it supports a color picker. The format is Quake2 0-1,0-1,0-1 for RGB. What is considered the standard 0-1 or 0-255 for RGB.
#2 What modern tools support the 0-1 format? (not Hmap2).
#3 Must obey the use of _color so as not to screw with Quoth's light entities.
Jpl
#8317 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/21 19:45:59
i'm thinking this: func_wall with model key set to the monster and appropriate frame (like you set up for a monster corpse).
then a trigger that kills the func_wall model and spawns in the correct monster.
maybe some debris spawners for effect and a func_togglewall on top of the func_wall to make it 'solid'.
Necros
#8318 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/21 20:46:21
OK, thanks, I'll try it.
I thought it was something available with Quoth. It may be good idea to add such feature BTW ;)
What Do Dale Earnhardt And Pink Floyd Have In Common?
#8319 posted by Preach [86.160.143.42] on 2009/02/21 21:14:49
You will probably run into a problem with the func_wall, "SOLID_BSP with a non BSP model". You can use mapobject_custom to similar effect, although you'll have the non-solid problem.
Oh Sorry
#8320 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/02/21 21:53:22
yeah, my bad. for my original post, i should have said func_illusionary instead, since func_wall doesn't work, but i totally forgot you added in the custom mapobj entity, preach. :)
But
#8321 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/21 23:03:24
both fly a plane
#8322 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/02/22 19:22:40
Dale Earnhardt : "I'd hit it like a wall!"
Necros
#8323 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/22 19:58:50
No problem ;) I'll test the method ASAP :D
Close...
#8324 posted by Preach [86.165.54.127] on 2009/02/22 22:52:21
The real punchline is For both, their final hit was "The Wall"
LOL
#8325 posted by HeadThump [4.136.90.152] on 2009/02/23 03:21:39
#8322 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/02/22 19:22:40
Dale Earnhardt : "I'd hit it like a wall!"
As for Dale Jr. I have seen him walk out of a bar with pair of fugly skanks on his arms. He'll hit on anything.
No Log Exists
#8326 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.65.118] on 2009/02/28 02:28:49
When I run WC 3.33, it says the following for everything in the textures directory:
Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\id_base.... ... details ...No log exists.
This is not such a big deal since I already have the Quake/Hipnotic/Raven etc textures converted and working. But if I want to convert new textures, it won't work.
Any ideas?
Hmm
#8327 posted by DaZ [80.41.171.148] on 2009/02/28 12:33:30
Try using a program that can convert wc 1.6 wads to wc 3.3 wad files, wadconv.exe is a good one, but I dont know any links sadly. I think texmex can do this too, but I dont have a link for that either, sorry! :(
Links
#8328 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/02/28 21:08:16
http://www.doomworld.com/xwe/
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
texmex is harder to find, but I'm sure it is there.
TexMex
#8329 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/02/28 21:17:48
http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy....
Google it man, google it ;)
Hexen Ii Styled Text Dialogue Boxes
#8330 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2009/03/01 18:47:52
Hay guys,
I'm trying to do something pretty simple here for a series of Quake SP maps... and don't know the right way about going about this. If anyone remembers the dialogue boxes when you looked at a stele or obelisk etc. in Hexen II, it would bring up essentially a box with text describing it etc. and I'm trying to get the same thing in Quake without extensive coding and/or shooting pains in or around the anus. Normal triggers don't seem to work right w/ this due to the text remaining on the screen only for a set client-side amount of time :/
Any thoughts on getting multiple lines of text or a paragraph to stay on the screen longer, then resume gameplay?
I Think You'll Have To Code It In
#8331 posted by RickyT23 [81.105.66.95] on 2009/03/01 19:00:36
Inside3d.com is the place to go, although there are some coders which are geniouses who may yet reply here......
This Is Func_read Or Somethin' Related
#8332 posted by spy [88.204.251.232] on 2009/03/01 19:19:16
you should ask tronyn about it (it was done in soe iirc)
#8333 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/03/01 19:58:06
centerprint (entity e, string s);
is the function you want. it prints the string to the entity specified. the amount of time the center print stays on screen is controlled by an engine variable (scr_centertime, i think) which you can change in the console.
so you would need to circumvent that because you can't assume scr_centertime will be a constant.
what you can do is simply keep calling the function over and over at regular intervals (let's say ever 0.1 seconds) while you are looking at whatever needs a dialog box.
then, when the player looks away, stop and send a centerprint with "" to clear the screen immediatly.
KamiKaze
#8334 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/03/02 13:05:01
There should be a batfile called 'convtex' or something either in your WC3.3 textures folder or its root folder.
It worth noting that it converts all the texture wads, but if it fails on one for any reason then it stops converting - remove that one wad and the rest will convert ok.
If you've upgraded to Hammer then as far as I remember there's some other fuckup that stops you loading new textures in.
Necros
#8335 posted by enki [75.128.197.105] on 2009/03/04 18:25:21
Thanks, this is probably the route i'm going to take due to ease of use and: tbh after looking at H2 source, the method there is a bit too out of wack for what I need..
After playing NSOE, I see that's pretty much the way I'd like it to work, so if the end result is the same / similar then all will be well.
I'll fidget w/ it.
Color Light
#8336 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.65.118] on 2009/03/05 04:28:21
What do people use to achieve this? I've been googling and can't really find anything that tells you how to do it.
I read the .txt file for fitzquake and it said it supports colored lighting with .lit files. But google turned up nothing for .lit files.
KamiKaze
#8337 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/03/05 08:54:00
.lit file is generated during map lightning process. Depending on your light tool, it is supported, or not. Generally you just have to add a -colored and/or a -lit option to your command line.
You also need to add a _color field per light entity. _colored are using r g b fields in [0:1] range (i.e equivalent to 0 to 255).
Colored Light
#8338 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/03/05 09:06:13
Tyrlight supports colored light, exactly in the method JPL described. The readme should give more info.
http://www.disenchant.net/utils.ht...
Question
#8339 posted by spy [92.47.220.201] on 2009/03/06 07:26:25
guys, what's the best/average _sunlight, _sunlight2/3 value? l tried with 220/100 value but its look like minlight has been used. or there is no best value :)
Interesting Query
#8340 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.68] on 2009/03/06 11:14:58
What angle have you set for each of your "suns"?
should be "0-360" "0 to -90" "0"(the last number is there just as a marker)
If you dont set a good angle I'm not sure what the behaviour is, but regardless of the brightness you should have your suns all at different angles to see the effect well. I cant remember what the key is exactly - "_sunlight_mangle"? It should say in the docs on AguirRe's website:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea...
As For The Brightness Of The Suns
#8341 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.68] on 2009/03/06 11:27:00
100 - 220 should look fine. The sunlight has no falloff so any value over about 15 should be obvious..... But if the angle is -90 then it may look like minlight in outside areas because it will be pointing 90 degrees downwards
Something Like
#8342 posted by spy [92.47.220.201] on 2009/03/06 11:40:21
_sun_mangle 230 -45 0
_sunlight 250
_sunlight3 140
OK, Quoted From Mthe Readme:
#8343 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.68] on 2009/03/06 11:49:20
The 2nd sunlight is enabled via command line option "-sunlight2 #" or via "_sunlight2" key in
worldspawn. This 2nd sun is actually many suns automatically positioned in an arrangement with
different yaw/pitch to eliminate bad shadows. When option "-extra" or "-extra4" is enabled, more
suns are used.
This 2nd sunlight value can be used to soften the shadows in outdoor areas from the normal
sunlight without using minlight, which in turn then may be reserved for indoor areas. A value of
60 is a good starting point for the 2nd sunlight if the normal sunlight is 250.
You can also add the "-shadowsense #" option which sets the angle (shadow) sensitivity for 2nd
sunlight (default 0.0). This can reduce the sometimes uniform look of sunlight. Recommended value
is 0.4 together with an increased 2nd sunlight level of about 10. For convenience, you can also
use option "-sunlight3 #" or "_sunlight3" key which just enables 2nd sunlight and at the same time
sets shadow sensitivity to 0.4.
Interesting it doesnt say how to set the angle of the second sun, but I would try reducing your "_sunlight3" (or 2) value to something much lower like 40 or 50.....
Maybe. Or email AguirRe :) he's very helpful
#8344 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.68] on 2009/03/06 11:49:40
shit sorry about the bad formatting...
Afaik
#8345 posted by spy [92.47.220.201] on 2009/03/06 12:29:46
there is no (m)angle for sunlite2/3
but anyway thank you for the hell[p]
Is It Possible
#8346 posted by DaZ [80.41.171.148] on 2009/03/07 18:28:57
To give a different colour to each sunlight?
AFAIK
#8347 posted by ijed [190.20.90.211] on 2009/03/07 18:34:31
AguirR´s tools don´t support colour.
UVW Twisting
#8348 posted by ijed [190.20.93.184] on 2009/03/10 23:57:44
What causes this?
I have the thing fine in Qme and can reopen where still it looks correct, but in game it looks like the texture is twisted round the object in a spiral.
Also
#8349 posted by ijed [190.20.93.184] on 2009/03/10 23:59:04
Qme can´t open DXF files from the most recent version of 3dMax?
Well
#8350 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/03/11 14:06:33
DXF is shittier than 3ds whose backwards compatibility format means it doesn't matter which version you export from.
Might try experimenting with uvw's there, but don't hold much hope - AFAIK the model will be reskinned automatically.
Twisting could be down to using different versions of Qme.
What I'm trying to do is unfold the model so its flat and correctly mapped, then have its first animation frame group as put back together, the second being the mapped version.
Half Life - Missing PAK
#8351 posted by drewsimpson85 [66.79.231.129] on 2009/03/16 14:42:08
I think I've mentioned on here before that I'm thinking of doing some HL mapping. Wondering if anyone has any experience with mapping for steam (NON SOURCE) Half Life. Seems like theres no pak0.pak in the valve folder. Any ideas as to where it is, or what it has been replaced with? I'm frankly surprised at how backwards incompatible Valve has made their breakout product considering the user community was a main ingredient in its huge success.
I Think
#8352 posted by necros [99.227.108.217] on 2009/03/16 18:11:58
if you've 'converted' a normal HL installation for steam, pak files are removed and placed in those GCF files in the steam/steamapps folder, but i could be wrong.
Necros
#8353 posted by Drew [66.79.231.129] on 2009/03/16 21:16:15
thanks for the quick reply!
does anyone know if there is a program I can use to browse GCF files?
Nevermind
#8354 posted by Drew [66.79.231.129] on 2009/03/16 21:22:01
Found one...
Drew
#8355 posted by enki [68.114.241.3] on 2009/03/18 00:33:00
Yeah just extracting the .gcf's content to your gamemod's folder structure usually does the trick enough to get usable media ie: wads etc. That's how I got Radiant 1.4.0 Raven working w/ HL / DMC.
Also, looks like you found GCFScape ;)
Im Looking For Some Help:
#8356 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.131] on 2009/03/19 13:25:34
I know I can set an info_notnull to be a single frame of animation from a model. I.e. a statue.
Im looking for the frame number of a dead shambler, when they lie on the ground with their arms out.
And also I want to make it "lie" on the wall, so I guess I would need to use the angles key, but what value?
If anyone can answer these questions it would be very helpfull and save me a lot of messing about!
So You Want
#8357 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/03/19 14:22:18
To crucify a shambler?
Frame: 104 for RQ 94 for id1
For angles you'll have to mess about, roll or yaw will depend on which way the wall is facing - NSEW.
Put it in a box, compile with player start and check.
;-)
#8358 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.18.131] on 2009/03/19 14:30:07
thnx Ijed!
Point Of Fact
#8359 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/03/19 15:02:50
104 does something else instead.
#8360 posted by negke [85.176.85.87] on 2009/03/19 17:00:33
The hell, Richard! Ripping my ideas straight from my mind, or what???
Thats How I Get All Of My Ideas!
#8361 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.148.177] on 2009/03/19 18:52:20
I tap into your dreams so I can see maps which you dont even know you thought of yet :D
Good
#8362 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/03/21 18:42:28
you can't tap into mine or you'll loose your mind.
Blood, Blood, Glorious Blood..
#8363 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.238.205] on 2009/03/22 09:31:03
...nothing quite like it for spilling on mud
(apologies to Flanders and Swann)
I need a good blood texture - rivers of blood, pools of blood etc. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Blood Texture
#8364 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/03/22 11:07:34
Mike: here are some I have on my PC... maybe you have them... plus some others I added in Five Rivers Land (e.g blood falls, etc...). Let me know what you would need ;)
CTF4: *02owat
DKT3: blood, blood4, bool64... but need to be renamed with * prefix
Doom2: *Blood1d2
Doom3: *bloodhell
GYROTEX: *lava3, need to be renamed to *<whatever but not lava> to avoid damage when crawling
Hexen2: *rtex386, *skulls
HIPNOTIC: *blood1
knave: *daemon, *daemonica, *redfog, *slimered
OBTEX2: *ob105
ZERSTöRER: *viscera_liq1, *viscera_liq2, *viscera_liq3, *viscera_liq4, meat1_5 and viscera10. The 2 last ones need to be renamed with * prefix
Make your selection :P
Bloody Hell!
#8365 posted by Mike Woodham [81.158.238.205] on 2009/03/22 12:20:36
#8366 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/03/23 10:18:30
JPL is the antichrist!!!
so much knowledge of BLOOD
Satan Is My Lord...
#8367 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/03/23 10:23:46
... and I will swallow your soul.. :P
As An Info_notnull
#8368 posted by RickyT23 [86.140.189.134] on 2009/03/31 11:40:52
ogre grenade explosion hack likely to break deathmatch in anything other than Reaperbot 0.81?
I wonder if its Quakeworld compatible, or netquake compatible.
Any idea why the notnulls cannot be removed from DM mode via spawnflags?
Hmmm
#8369 posted by RickyT23 [86.174.39.145] on 2009/03/31 12:41:45
someone (Negke) suggested I use the player grenade instead. So if ogregrenades are:
"use" "ogre_grenade_explode"
with or without caps or _s in places (my memory is foggy) then does anyone have any idea what it is for the player grenade explosion?
#8370 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/03/31 12:58:45
I think it's "GrenadeExplode".
Thanks
#8371 posted by RickyT23 [86.174.39.145] on 2009/03/31 13:07:59
I'll try that an the other suggestion "W_FireGrenade", will report back later
#8372 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/03/31 13:10:21
Well, W_FireGrenade will actually spawn a grenade and throw it into the world whereas GrenadeExplode will just create the explosion, cause damage, and destroy the current entity (which I assume will be your info_null.
Ahhh
#8373 posted by RickyT23 [86.174.39.145] on 2009/03/31 13:11:24
oh right! Thanks for the help :)
Fat Controller's RCDM7 OxyMorons
#8374 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/03/31 21:22:39
hellos,
i was wondering if fat controller has the oxymoron textures he(she maybe, they? i don't want to assume)used on the map RCDM7 "The Ministry of Love" available in/on the Internets
or if not whither he/she/they have a active e-mails or have a place most likely to contact too see if """ still have them or if i can get permission to get them from the map somehow
because they are awesome textures and this map has inspired me more to seek some literature, like how quake got me inta hovercraft, now i wanna read 1984 :O
thanks...or somfin'
[sorry if i DE-railed any previous discussions with this posting, heh]
Hmm
#8375 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/01 01:04:25
They're by Stecki. WAD is called Decon.
Here; http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/dec...
Oh, I Have That But
#8376 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/01 02:55:06
it dosen't seem to have the ministry slogans in it, sorry i should have mentioned i have the decon.wad with all the other textures :S
i dont really want to take them w/o permission and make fat controller mad if he sees or something
//in the case im in one of my drowsy crazy spells im talking about the "ignorance is strengh", "war is peace",and "freedom is slavery" textures
Nah
#8377 posted by ijed [190.20.127.91] on 2009/04/01 03:49:57
I gaunruntee he'll be alot more likely to be happier having his textures used than upset that someone's used them.
Gauruntee
#8378 posted by ijed [190.20.127.91] on 2009/04/01 03:50:34
But that's not right either. There's what comes from learning to read from the Beano.
Hmm
#8379 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/01 04:17:39
one of my drowsy crazy spells
I get those too ;) But I misunderstand posts more than miscommunicate...
Hmm
#8380 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/01 04:20:10
But yeh, iirc FC used to release all his map textures as WADs for others to use too. If you can't get hold of him I honestly think he'd be pleased if you used them. Guarantee'd.
Ok, Thanks For The Guaran't :O
#8381 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/01 04:26:30
ill keep looking see if he's listed anywhere before i break stuff trying to collect the textures though
//i feel like a creep when looking for e-mails and stuff like that though :S
If Its Any Constelation (ha)
#8382 posted by RickyT23 [86.174.39.145] on 2009/04/01 10:27:34
I nicked my skybox from someone, I cant even remember who, and modified it.
#8383 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/01 11:51:40
I have a WAD editor I'm working on that can extract the textures from a BSP file. If you email me the BSP, I can extract a WAD for you and mail it back.
#8384 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/04/01 12:25:03
Willem texmex do that! :)
#8385 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/01 12:37:45
Oh. Well, then he should have no problems getting the textures out. :)
I Think...
#8386 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2009/04/01 21:10:30
he was looking for permission, not the technical means to do it.
#8387 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/04/01 21:13:02
My mistake then. Didn't read carefully enough.
Hmm
#8388 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/01 21:16:21
Yeh, but the line about trying to extract them without breaking things implied a need for software linkage...
What tool you making Willem? Or is this a new feature of Toetag?
Hmm
#8389 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/01 21:17:47
I have a WAD editor I'm working on
I win reading
#8390 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/04/01 21:22:28
I'm redoing ToeTag as an editing suite so it'll have a level editor, WAD editor, MDL editor, PAK editor, and a bunch of other stuff. It's a longer term project but it's steaming along.
I want to also add stuff like editing sprite files, QuakeC editing/compiling, etc.
I Got Them Out Though
#8391 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/01 22:06:29
i was expecting more of a challenge, texmex is fast
i found an email for on the web comic he is doing (http://emotel.comicgenesis.com/)b... if i do not get a replay ill most likely just use them w/o discreetness to see if i get a hollah
anyways, ToeTag looks cool from the screen shots i have seen, is it still only for mac things though?:O
anywaysanyways, thanks for the helps, cos this did help..in some way :D
Solanum Everywhere
#8392 posted by enki [68.114.241.3] on 2009/04/01 23:41:29
Can someone point me in a direction here... I need to get a few zombies (and by a few I mean a horde) to play dead until triggered, ambushed, whatever, then get up, rise from the grave as it were, and start attacking.
Crucifying them is fun and all but gets boring after awhile. I'd like to try some necromancy.
Thoughts?
Code Needed
#8393 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/04/01 23:59:31
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
It should do what you want, though you'll probably need to refine some stuff.
Think This Should Be In The Coding Thread But:
#8394 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/02 00:07:24
wait, are you the same guy i told the half-zombie idea to? but i digress:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
has some zombie stuff in it, it *might* have what you are looking for, but if not than maybe look for the zerstroer source, it has that kind [i guess i mean they do wait till a trigger or somfin then the rise ...right?
http://retroquake.planetquake.game...
Hm
#8395 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/04/02 00:11:57
Zombies...
#8396 posted by necros [173.34.78.53] on 2009/04/02 00:17:54
would it be possible to do this:
1. make normal zombie.
2. make a func_door with the skip texture right on the zombie's hitbox.
3. make door 'startopen' so that it spawns in the ground under the zombie.
4. make trigger_hurt over zombie with enough damage to make it fall
(at a certain level of damage, the zombie is coded to fall down 100% of the time)
5. right after, killtarget trigger_hurt
6. trigger door to 'open' so it is now blocking the zombie from standing.
(there's code to check whether a zombie can stand or not and will not do so if blocked)
7. when ready, killtarget the door and the zombie will stand up again.
it's really complex, but it could be used if you had a one off thing somewhere and didn't want to code anything up.
Oops Sorry Ijed :S I Musta Typed And
#8397 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/02 00:22:40
posted at the same time you did :S
necros looks like hes got his act together :O
Simplification
#8398 posted by Preach [86.147.249.45] on 2009/04/02 00:26:36
I'm pretty sure you could swap the door setup for a wall that blocks the zombie the whole time, which you then killtarget when you want the zombie to wake up. It'll still fall down from damage if it is blocked.
Free Pro Tip
#8399 posted by Preach [86.147.249.45] on 2009/04/02 01:42:02
If you place the func_wall so that it covers the origin of the zombie, then you can prevent splash damage from killing the zombie. Direct hits will still be fatal though, so be careful about letting the player kill the zombies before they get woken up, since that will leave an invisible wall which players might hit.
It might be possible to circumvent that problem by setting the touch function on the wall to knight_die3*. It depends on there being no touch event generated between wall and zombie, both if the zombie tries to stand up and anything sets force_retouch. I think the first case is actually safe, but not so sure about the second. Walking through a teleporter sets force_retouch, so a testmap could be made easily.
* Astute readers may have expected SUB_Remove here instead of knight_die3. The reason we use the latter is that you must not remove entities during a touch function. So instead we use part of a monster death sequence, which does nothing but change the frame(no effect on a skip textured wall) except to make the entity non-solid.
#8400 posted by enki [68.114.241.3] on 2009/04/02 06:23:42
ijed & meTch: Thanks. I'm going to end up doing some code in this project anyway, this may be a good start for it.
necros, Preach: That is absolutely dizzying. I considered a group of events for this but couldn't come up with a reliable sequence. :\
OK this gives me a lot of experimentation in both directions. Thanks again :D back to Radiant to try to make some magic happen.
I Myself Have Come Up Witha Triggery Problem In
#8401 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/02 06:25:10
the mid'st of the nite, is it possible to make a trigger_push blow you [uh huhuh uuuuh huh huh]in a slant-y-diagonal-y direction? im in QuArK dong this, i tried to set so a first push would blow you [heh heheheh heh heheh] upward, and a second one above it to the side, but it didn't quite work
[huh huh hu he said blow]
//sorry it has nothing to do with zombies not standing up though :S
I Think:
#8402 posted by necros [173.34.78.53] on 2009/04/02 07:21:50
use 'angles' instead of 'angle' and set as a vector.
Enki
#8403 posted by ijed [190.20.111.211] on 2009/04/02 14:05:05
What's the project?
Ijed
#8404 posted by enki [68.114.241.3] on 2009/04/03 07:28:19
a little themed sp adventure, something to pass the time. :D
Not Really Mapping But
#8405 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.37] on 2009/04/03 09:44:44
http://g.imagehost.org/0163/vsynco...
I noticed in two engines that if I look at void and move my view, the geometry tears and spasms as you can see on that screenshot (for example in tyr-glquake).
In other engines the void stays clear of the rest and there is no such tearing. (for example Fitzquake (sdl 0.80) and DP.
First I thought it was VSync disabled but vid_vsync is 0 in Fitzquake. In DP it is also disabled. Also forcing it in the video driver did not change a thing.
What is this?
Spirit:
#8406 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/04/03 10:12:56
is fitzquake 0.85 one of the problem engines? if so i'd like to see your bsp to see if i can figure it out.
Ah No
#8407 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.37] on 2009/04/03 10:28:05
Fitzquake SDL 0.80 is fine so I assume any Fitzquake is fine. For me it is any map when I look at void (eg noclip outside the map) and move/look around.
I'll try it in Windows on the weekend.
#8408 posted by negke [88.70.59.54] on 2009/04/03 10:32:34
Spirit: some sort of gl_clear issue?
Preachcros: Nice one, keep em coming! :)
Spirit:
#8409 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/04/03 10:33:58
gl_clear 1 -- clear the void with a solid color
gl_clear 0 -- hall-of-mirrors effect
Nope
#8410 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.37] on 2009/04/03 10:45:40
The tearing appears also with gl_clear 0. It's hard to explain. Try tyr-glquake and gl_clear 1, then noclip out into the void. If it happens to you too, that's where you see it best.
Hmm
#8411 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/03 18:00:29
Can someone give me the item bits for the SG please. All I need to complete the coag3_start is the weapon remove hack and then we can release, but while I've found the BackpackTouch hack info, I can't find a list of item bits and the example removes everything except axe...
I'm assuming 125 should add every weapon (value of 1 for axe, value of 2 for shotgun) except SG&Axe, but I'd like some kinda confirmation for someone who's mapped for Q1 within the last 7 years...
Hmm
#8412 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/04/03 19:02:19
nm, thank god for irc
Hm...
#8413 posted by necros [173.34.78.53] on 2009/04/03 21:12:02
those patterns actually look kinda cool...
Aalllllllll-righty Then
#8414 posted by meTch [69.183.40.236] on 2009/04/05 01:08:08
thanks for the tip on the vector and making it angles instead of angle, because i finally figured out how to do it :D [i kept adding tick-marks between the numbers :/]
and fat controller did get back to me on the e-mail today and said i can use he textures as long as i give him kreditz which will not be a problem :D
this is what i kinda looks like atm:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums...
and yes it will be some kind of a multi-player thing map, i just dont know what yet, maybe dm/ffa
Odd Entity Behavior In Quake
#8415 posted by Rick [75.66.20.229] on 2009/04/06 18:52:05
Hi,
I just started mapping again after many years gone. I've been working on a re-mix of my Quake level "Well of Wishes" (original map was lost in a hard drive crash) and I ran across an odd thing. I uploaded a map to quaketastic to illustrate, but basically I am able to push items through solid geometry, but only from certain directions. I was trying to find a way to add items as the player progressed using the fewest possible entities/brushes, but without resorting to a custom progs.dat and When I first came up with this I didn't realize the item bounding boxes were so tall
I may not use this method because it seems like might be more of a bug in the engine than anything else, but I was wondering if anyone knew why this happens. In the map I uploaded there are 4 alcoves with nails and health in each. The wall above the alcove is low enough that the player can't pass and get to the items. In the actual level the alcove would be hidden by a func_illusionary and when triggered they would be pushed into view by the func_door.
The only engines I've tried are fitzquake085, winquake and glquake, but it does the same thing in all three. The door will push the items through only from the north and east, from south and west the items fall through the floor when they pass through the wall.
If anybody wants to check this out, the example map is here:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Shoot the buttons above each alcove to trigger the pushing door.
Turn on r_showbboxes in fitzquake for a more interesting view.
Back to mapping for now.
#8416 posted by negke [88.70.242.252] on 2009/04/06 19:16:38
That's because the wall is too low - the items' bounding boxes are 64 units tall. I don't know why it works - albeit with a visible clipping glitch - on two sides but doesn't on the other two (probably related to the bottom right back corner origin thing of entities). Since you're going to use two funcs anyway, you could make the illusionary an addtional door or wall and killtarget it, or let the items drop from a closet in the ceiling or in the floor.
MDL Time Stamps
#8417 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/07 13:26:03
OK, I can't seem to get the time stamp field to do anything in either frame groups or skin groups -- is it used at all or does the engine lock that stuff down to a specific frame rate and that's the end of the story?
I'm changing values in my model editor but it's not having any effect on the speed of either kind of group.
Odd Entity Behavior
#8418 posted by Rick [75.66.20.229] on 2009/04/07 17:32:42
Yeah, I realize why it won't work, I was just baffled as to why it ever did in the first place. It must be some quirk in the engine code. I widened the alcoves by 64 units in each direction and items still drop out in only 2 of the 4 directions, so I don't think it's bounding box related.
Anyway, it's not a big deal as I was already using ceiling doors and floor doors in other places.
#8419 posted by negke [88.70.240.139] on 2009/04/07 18:03:56
The alcoves are fine, otherwise the items would drop out right away. The openings are not high enough - raise the brush under the buttons by 16 units and you'll see that all items are pushed out correctly.
Arched Doorways?
#8420 posted by Clockworkdroog [66.154.132.242] on 2009/04/07 19:24:36
Really could use some help here. If someone could direct me to a tutorial for arched doorways in Radiant 1.5 for Quake III Arena, that'd be great. I've tried looking myself, and the one I did find was outdated and vague besides. If anyone has a video tutorial, that's even better. Thanks in advance!
Clock
Willem
#8421 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/07 20:49:10
Do you mean the value that's meant to set duration of each frame? As I recall, they work correctly in software quake, and in glquake based engines, the value in the first frame in the framegroup gets applied to the entire framegroup. Recommended setting is to set all of them to the same value so that the behaviour is the same in all engines. But you could make the framegroup-wide setting modifiable like that...
#8422 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/04/07 20:54:28
Well, I currently have it set up where you edit them all and I guess I'll leave it like that as the file format supports it even if the engine doesn't. Heh, oh well...
Arched Doorways
#8423 posted by pjw [24.183.98.202] on 2009/04/08 05:35:31
Try this:
http://www.wemakemaps.com/doorway....
That's Actually A Pretty Good Tutorial
#8424 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/04/08 10:56:34
Half-life Like Transperent Textures In Quake
#8425 posted by _Zylyx [82.3.253.204] on 2009/04/10 18:58:14
Hi !
I was just wondering, is it possible to have transperent textures in quake? By that I mean textures which contain the image which is fully visible, but areas of the texture which are not rendered. A good example of this would a fence of some sort or barbed-wire.
I did hear that quake renders texures with the color value 0 (in the 8bit quake palette) as transperent, but I think this only works for sky textures.
Any help/advie is appreciated.
#8426 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/04/10 19:30:16
Stock Quake doesn't do transparency in any way with the sole exception of the sky (as you noted). I think more advanced engines may support textures with alpha channels but I'm not sure.
#8427 posted by _Zylyx [82.3.253.204] on 2009/04/10 19:44:28
Ok, I'll see what I can do instead of using that then. Maybe I'll just model the fence, lol.
Well
#8428 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/10 20:46:11
You can use sprites to do that, if you don't mind the fact that they won't be lit by static or dynamic lights(which really limits you to placing them in bright locations or having them look quite odd. Quoth has a few examples of this.
#8429 posted by _Zylyx [82.3.253.204] on 2009/04/10 21:03:06
Cool, I;ll trya few different things and see how it goes.
Eaxample
#8430 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/10 21:24:05
as long as you make the width not to far and keep a little distance it wont matter, it can even give a magic touch...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/sprit...
but when you change your view it will also change.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/sprit...
For transparant texture colour look for Wally:
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/i...
trabsparant colour RGB 159 91 83 ColourIndex 255
MDL Float Drift And Precision Issues...
#8431 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/12 14:01:02
Is there an understanding in the Quake modeling community that you won't be loading/saving MDL files over and over with any success? I'm struggling to get my model editor to load and save MDL files repeatedly but float drift and precision issues are causing it to eventually end up with the wrong number of vertices and blam, down she goes.
Do people just rebuild MDL files scratch each time they write them out or do editors typically allow you to load and save the native MDL file format repeatedly?
Yes
#8432 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.144] on 2009/04/12 14:08:06
That issue come up just recently somewhere. Might have been at Inside3D.
#8433 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/12 14:17:32
Yes, meaning that people don't expect to be able to work natively with MDL?
#8434 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.144] on 2009/04/12 14:24:35
Oh, no idea about that.
Standard
#8435 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/12 17:16:06
When I make models, I keep a copy in gmax for any editing, and just export to mdl when I need to. I try to ensure that the only edits I do once it's exported are to the skin and the flags. Last time this topic came up was http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Since then, I have thought of an analogy for it. If you're making an image/texture in photoshop, you might export it to jpg or tga format in order to show it to somebody. But you'd keep a copy with all the layers in PSD format if you wanted to go back and edit it later.
#8436 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/12 17:54:17
"Since then, I have thought of an analogy for it. If you're making an image/texture in photoshop, you might export it to jpg or tga format in order to show it to somebody. But you'd keep a copy with all the layers in PSD format if you wanted to go back and edit it later."
Fantastic! Yes, this is how I've come to think of it now. I'm going to create my own file format that can hold the model and it's frames in high precision and you can export to MDL as needed from there. This will basically act as a project file, holding the frames and skins together in one place until you are ready to export.
Yeah!
#8437 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/12 18:45:41
And you could call it mdo!
:-p
QMe actually had two approaches to this. The older versions, 3.0 and earlier, used to store higher precision vertex information at the end of the mdl file, after all the stuff that the quake engine would look at. 3.1 onwards had it's own model format with the extension MDO, which stored higher precision vertices, bone information, etc.
What
#8438 posted by ijed [186.9.86.53] on 2009/04/12 23:12:02
Is the ´official´ version of Qme - the one from Quake Terminus?
That one doesn´t seem to support skin groups, though the older MDO versions did - but they f-up UVW´s a fair bit (hit and miss).
Willam, the newer version does only have one format, but it also has two save options - ´Save´ and ´Save as Quake model´ the second version skimming off all the extra data.
Confusing, don´t know why they did that.
The Photoshop analogy is perfect ´Save for Web´.
Versioning
#8439 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/12 23:46:17
From memory, I think that the full version you get from Quake Terminus is QMe 3.0. If you download the QMe 3.1 demo from somewhere, then it comes with a patch that will upgrade 3.0 full to 3.1 full. So if you do that, you'll have the most recent version, which has the previously mentioned MDO format.
#8440 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/13 00:56:15
"And you could call it mdo! "
Well, sure, but usable on a Mac. :)
Thanks Preach
#8441 posted by Ijed [195.189.142.217] on 2009/04/13 15:44:25
Hax4fax
#8442 posted by negke [88.70.225.3] on 2009/04/14 20:33:17
I might have asked this before, but didn't get an answer or at least can't find it anymore.
Is it possible to use the activatable trigger hack for teleporters and pushes? It doesn't work the regular way (use classname/touch SUB_Null) and I couldn't get it to work by experimenting with the related fields/functions in triggers.qc, so maybe I missed something important - or does it just not work at all with these two?
A func_door can't have it's owner set to the player (1), or what? Works for all funcs I tested but not simple doors. Is there a work-around, am I just too dumb or do I have to use something else here (train etc)?
But
#8443 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/04/14 21:01:50
Teleports don't activate until triggered if they have a name - ?
I've experimented with the push before but can't remember how it ended up.
Triggers Are Wonderful Things
#8444 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/14 21:27:01
The thing that makes trigger_teleport and trigger_push fail is that both functions precache sounds during their spawnfunctions, an action which is illegal after the frames begin.
As luck would have it, there is a very easy fix in the case of the trigger_teleport. Set spawnflag 2 on your info_notnull. This is the SILENT flag, which means the file will not be precached. This does mean that you lose the ambient sound of the teleporter, but not the sounds when you actually teleport from it.
trigger_push is not so fortunate, so we have to work a bit harder. What we do is directly set the touch function ourselves, and then make the use function perform the trigger initialisation instead. The only other things that the trigger_push spawnfunction does is precache the sound, and set a default .speed on the entity.
The fields should look like:
use InitTrigger
touch trigger_push_touch
speed 1000
The problem with func_door is that .owner is already used for doors - it points to the master door. Even if you could construct an entity which has all the settings of a door except .owner equal to the player, you'd cause crashes as soon as you tried to open it. So a func_train or func_plat is probably the best bet.
Thanks
#8445 posted by negke [88.70.225.3] on 2009/04/14 23:44:27
I didn't think it was that easy. There are other teleporters in the map already, so I assumed the precaching was taken care of. It wasn't supposed to have a sound anyway (and if it had been, a train_wait/noise entity could have done the trick).
The door is supposed to ensure that monsters can walk across seperated platforms - since they're skip-textured, it doesn't really matter which kind of func is used.
ijed: A trigger_teleport with a targetname only teleports if it's triggered (=by the player, unless another hack is used). However, I wanted a cleaner, or let's say, less dirty solution which also allows monsters to be teleported.
Seems It's Not All That Easy After All
#8446 posted by negke [88.70.56.161] on 2009/04/15 09:44:35
The trigger_teleport is functional, however, since it has a targetname (inevitably), it has to be fired again in order to trigger the teleportation (like a regular one). I tried InitTrigger and teleport_touch, but to no avail. Is it even possible to have an activatable touch-teleporter with this setup?
Hmm
#8447 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/15 19:32:40
I think you should be able to hack around that it by setting nextthink to 999999, or a similarly large number. Then it should work until that time is reached in-game. I imagine that 999999 seconds is long enough that something else breaks first, so it's a fairly safe, if ugly, hack.
Yes, That Works.
#8448 posted by negke [88.70.90.1] on 2009/04/15 22:13:48
And now I finally understand what nextthink in QC.
#8449 posted by negke [88.70.90.1] on 2009/04/15 22:14:03
*does
Preach
#8450 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/04/16 00:31:28
Issues start happening at 9.7 days, where the floats get big enough lose accuracy at the 0.1 seconds order of magnitude. There are 86400 seconds in a day, so that should be high enough, albeit hacky...
Lol
#8451 posted by meTch [69.183.103.146] on 2009/04/16 04:12:09
...
Ok For Real This Time
#8452 posted by meTch [69.183.103.146] on 2009/04/16 04:14:57
would it be possible to get monsters mad at something like a hurt trigger or something [like say zombies] so that they attack it? does what i just typed make sense? anyways, it would be cool if i could do that without mod, using quoth for mod btw :O
#8453 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/04/16 05:00:07
i think you could haxor the edict number of a trigger_hurt into a monster's .enemy field when building the map, but the monster will just go after it right at map spawn time. this isn't great since the player might not be there yet to see what happens.
you could maybe hide the monster away in a monster closet or something i guess and open it up when the player is in the right spot.
but you can't do anything more complex without changing a fundamental thing about the AI.
specifically, the damage/combat reaction and sight reaction. the only way for a monster to get angry at something else is if it's 'found' via searching (which normally only looks for clients, which is even more selective) or being hurt.
except that when being hurt, all sources except players and monsters (.flags = FL_MONSTER) are discarded. besides, it'd be a cheap hack to make the monster attack a trigger_hurt by first having the trigger 'damage' the monster.
so that leaves sight.
adding it in there wouldn't be a big deal, but you'd need to add it in after searching for players, and then as either a find loop or a findradius.
still, that doesn't really make it useful since if the trigger is in sight, the monster will just go attack it regardless of if the player is around to see it happen.
so what's left would be making some kind of script object that, when triggered, makes the monster angry at a specific entity.
that sounds like the best bet here.
That First Suggestion
#8454 posted by meTch [69.183.103.146] on 2009/04/16 13:42:39
seems like it would work :O im hoping to try and make it similar to this
"""Directly in front of this yawning Polyphemus-door the things were throwing objects - evidently sacrifices or religious offerings, to judge by their gestures. Khephren was their leader; sneering King Khephren or the guide Abdul Reis, crowned with a golden pshent and intoning endless formulae with the hollow voice of the dead. By his side knelt beautiful Queen Nitocris, whom I saw in profile for a moment, noting that the right half of her face was eaten away by rats or other ghouls. And I shut my eyes again when I saw what objects were being thrown as offerings to the fetid aperture or its possible local deity."""
and ill be using zombies, so them dieing shouldn't be a problem
Scripting An Attack
#8455 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/16 19:55:27
Ok, here's a hack to make monsters attack an arbitrary entity:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
All you need to do to adapt it is to change
owner n
on the "attacking" info_notnull so that n is the entity number of whatever you want the monsters to attack. For it to work, you do need to make sure that your monsters don't walk off before getting hit by the trigger, and remember that the player can still attract their aggression later by attacking them.
PS: A word of warning to neg!ke. Make sure you do not fire the targetname pointing to your newly spawnable trigger_teleports more than once. The first time will spawn the trigger_teleport, but the second time will fire the regular teleport "use" function, which will reset self.nextthink and thereby ruin the hack.
Ok
#8456 posted by negke [88.70.77.238] on 2009/04/17 10:00:19
Good to know
Creatures In A Func_train
#8457 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/04/24 09:22:43
Hello,
I've been trying to get a sort of cage with 3 Shalraths (Vores) in it to move around in a func_train, so it's harder to kill them. A nice idea, but the bastards keep falling out even though it's closed and I positioned them inside the cage at the first path_corner. Is it not possible to get creatures on a moving platform without them falling true ? By the way, I'm using Worldcraft 1.6 a.
#8458 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/24 11:28:24
I'm trying to think of an id1 map that had monsters on a moving platform but I'm coming up dry. Except for that slow descending lift that spawns the zombies. But even there, the zombies are spawning and falling onto the platform so it's probably not the same thing...
#8459 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/24 11:29:06
I've seen monsters use lifts successfully but never, to my memory, a func_train ... dunno! Preach? :)
#8460 posted by negke [88.70.51.75] on 2009/04/24 11:59:53
Check if the cage is large enough - as with the items, there have to be at least 4 units of space (sides; maybe 32-40 above) between the brushes of the train and the monsters' bounding boxes. The bottom of the train has to be big enough, too - their bboxes must not overlap with the edges. Another reason they keep falling though could be holes in the bottom, if it is a grate for example, though then again, I think such things are taken care of in hull 1/2.
#8461 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/04/24 12:56:38
Thanks for your quick replies.
I'd been thinking myself if I've seen it used before and could not remember ever seeing it done. I will try a bigger box and if that doesn't work maybe I'll make the floor move around a bit to get a similar result. Or maybe I'll just think of something else, I'll let you know if it worked. By the way, there are no holes in the bottom, only behind the Vores, but that's closed by a wall over the whole length of the path_corners. They just fall true and then block the "train", resulting in them slowly dying. It's quite humorous to hear them scream, but it was not what I intended ;)
Monsters In Func_train
#8462 posted by spy [88.204.223.17] on 2009/04/24 15:28:09
the vore in hip3m1?
Tip
#8463 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/24 19:54:13
I have one quick tip. Make sure that when you place your func_train brushes in the editor, it is positioned so that the lowermost extent exactly on the first path_corner. To find the lowermost extent, consider the smallest bounding box which will surround the entire model. Then take the coordinates of the corner of the box where x, y and z are all smallest. This will make sure the train doesn't get moved when it spawns, which might be getting the vores stuck.
And I'm Assuming
#8464 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/04/24 20:21:26
That all other path corners should be placed with the same logic?
Just Tried It
#8465 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/24 23:37:41
but as long as the distance between func_train and vormit holds 24 units it rides fine.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/train...
Good idea!
Vores On A Train
#8466 posted by robot [209.29.46.193] on 2009/04/25 00:41:00
Yea it does work, just make sure the train is
triggered a little after the vores are spawned
onto the train. So, use a trigger_once for the
train.
Lardarse
#8467 posted by Preach [86.147.249.85] on 2009/04/25 00:50:47
Yeah, the path_corners always indicate the minimum point on the bounding box. The spawn function for a train always "teleports" the func_train to the first path_corner. So you need to place the vores in such a way to anticipate when the train will be once it's been teleported in this way. The easiest way to do that is to already place the brushes in the right place in-editor.
And
#8468 posted by ijed [190.20.86.106] on 2009/04/25 16:12:51
That can help you light the thing better, to stop dark patches etc.
So you can place it wherever you like, where it'll be lit properly, but the paths in the correct place.
That's assuming it doesn't need to carry vores though.
Does
#8469 posted by ijed [190.20.71.255] on 2009/04/26 18:04:45
Anyone have a method for finding a missing enemy?
I've got one left over and can't find him - there's spawning going on so most likely I'm not calling one that is spawned.
I tried reading the .sav but it lists everything - there doesn't seem to be a way to search the correct term.
#8470 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/26 18:12:09
Could be a zombie that is knocked down below water and can't get up. I've seen that before.
No Zombies
#8471 posted by ijed [190.20.71.255] on 2009/04/26 18:24:36
That reminds me to put a fix in for stuck zombies though.
#8472 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/26 20:03:27
What fix would that be? I had a huge problem with stuck zombies in the warehouse section of White Room.
Func_breakable And Rubble Texture
#8473 posted by Ankh [91.203.96.37] on 2009/04/26 20:05:39
I'm using the func_breakable from qouth. If I set the rubble texture to glass the rubble isn't textured in-game. What could be the cause of this?
Ijed
#8474 posted by spy [92.47.249.23] on 2009/04/26 20:07:15
you should check the save file, look for health value, every dead monster has negative health value[something like this]
"classname" "monster_army"
"model" "progs/soldier.mdl"
....
....
....
"health" "-10.000000"
alive monster will have positive h/val.
Well
#8475 posted by ijed [190.20.71.255] on 2009/04/26 20:08:11
What I have in mind is adding to an unused field for each time the zombie tries and fails to get up, like ammo_shells.
If ammo shells reaches 3 then the zombie gibs itself. If it gets up then it resets ammo_shells to 0.
#8476 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/04/26 20:40:09
Oh, a code solution, OK. I thought there was some map trick you were doing. :)
The Answer
#8477 posted by RickyT23 [82.27.237.220] on 2009/04/26 21:55:35
Email it to AguirRe and ask him ;P
#8478 posted by ijed [190.20.119.208] on 2009/04/26 22:22:47
Well, there's a gameplay solution - when the zombie moans (trying to get up) you can kill it then with an explosion.
And yeah, I should have just mailed AguirRe in the first place.
About That Func_train Thing ...
#8479 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/04/27 13:08:06
It's with the going up and down that the trouble starts. When the train goes up again the entities fall true. MadFox, your example map runs perfect, thanks, only my idea was to make it run in a (seemingly) random manner, so the player will have to look where to shoot. So I made all my path_corners look like a vertical line in the XY view and sort of W shaped in the YZ view. Maybe I'll use your idea and make it move in a straight horizontal line than, I don't know. Anyway, thanks for all your help, people. I think another month or so and I'm finally ready to send this map to the world.
Ron
#8480 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/27 19:57:28
I made another setup with the example.
I think you could make the cage thing with the clip brush. Then bullets fly through, but the Vore will be centered to the func_train.
It rides every angle you want.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/mvore...
Fantastic !
#8481 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/04/28 09:29:51
MadFox, you did it !
This is really great, Thanks a lot !
#8482 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/04/28 11:51:57
Madfox the skull you made in arcus is fucking working real nice... the model is very perfect... i like it a lot!
visualy and in gameplay.
You are improving a lottttttttt in .mdls :)
keep the good work!
Yeah
#8483 posted by spy [95.56.30.5] on 2009/04/28 12:49:15
just don't forget to retexture the head mdl, when gibbed its still greenish
http://www.celephais.net/board/ico...
Ha!
#8484 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/28 20:15:25
Ron, map on!
Trinca, when making the hangar with the zdoom models you warned me not to change Quake. RLOF.
But indeed, I start loving modeling more than mapping, except the texturing.
I'm an average player, and the Enforcer has got a real bite on me. I mean, quake is fantasy so where are the other magic players like scrag, hellknight and vormit and ogre?
Killing a soldier or Enforcer still feels wrong.
Spy - it was on the last moment I found out how to change the skin of Bones. Before that I spend evenings pointing pixel by pixel.
I had the alpha skin from Q3 in stead of the original.
Louis told me that the idle and attack sounds
are switched. I'll see for that.
Madfox
#8485 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/04/28 20:46:52
Are you following the tickets in RQ for NPC's?
Some
#8486 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/29 19:35:48
They come in that amount I mostly check the last ones. I'm still not familiar with the remake quake. I played some maps, and I'm working on the watermon.map
I'm trying to create a frogman, an amphibian, but combining the start_monster_walk and start_monster_swim is a hard bone.
Not Too Hard
#8487 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/04/29 20:07:09
movetogoal() will take into account whatever flags the monster has the frame when it's called, so it's just a matter of adding and removing FL_SWIM from self.flags.
deciding under what conditions to do it is the only hard part, but you can use pointcontents(vector org) to determine what the monster is in.
Madfox
#8488 posted by ijed [190.20.108.20] on 2009/04/30 06:33:09
NPC's should be able to handle that.
No Diehard
#8489 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/04/30 09:14:43
Trying to add a sprite to a models attack is already a big job for me, so I know on what thin ice I'm stumbling.
Me trunk hardly knows what NPC's are.
Read The Ticket
#8490 posted by ijed [190.20.108.20] on 2009/04/30 14:10:35
Stupid Fish.
#8491 posted by clockworkdroog [66.154.132.23] on 2009/05/04 18:55:04
Does anyone know how to create a simple fish pond that looks somewhat realistic? What I really need is a pool of water that looks like the hole it is in has been dug up by hand...
Ideas?
Tutorials?
What The Fuck?
#8492 posted by Drew [76.75.67.150] on 2009/05/04 21:14:27
#8493 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/05/04 21:36:53
I guess put some brushes in the level and move the verts around until it looks good? I'm not sure what you're looking for here.
Probably...
#8494 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/05/04 23:51:06
you'd want to add some mounds of earth around the rim of the pond. For general techniques, search for "triangle method" terrain, that might be what you want.
That's It
#8495 posted by ijed [190.20.86.108] on 2009/05/05 03:28:47
You make the terrain out of wedges, then lower and raise verts to get what you need. Wedges are more difficult to break by vertex manipulation than rectangles.
Garden gnomes you can export from a 3d package - Qme can get you there with enough patience. Other features like a gazebo, rockery or magic waterfall + rainbow are a bit more complicated.
Oh yeah, and fish will most likely get stuck on the sloping edges of the pond.
Fdsa
#8496 posted by fsd [58.106.145.168] on 2009/05/05 09:08:02
fdsafdsafdsa
Also
#8497 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/05/05 10:13:34
tetrahedrons are impossible to break.
Tough Motherfuckers,
#8498 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/05/05 14:59:56
Thats for sure. More difficult to use though.
I tried developing a decent rock strategy for them but things got a bit too organic - everything ended up becoming a slope. and adding to it just decreased the inclination.
clockworkdroog:
http://www.katsbits.com/htm/tutori...
Apparently the method is called trisoup - which sounds stupid, but there you go.
Perfect.
#8499 posted by clockworkdroog [66.154.132.23] on 2009/05/05 19:06:59
Thanks for the help.
Trisoup
#8500 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/05/06 00:23:24
"trisoup" usually implies an aribtrary pile of triangles with no regular connectivity. At the very least when you make terrain out of triangles, you're probably at least making one continous sheet. And usually people arrange the triangles into a grid, so you end up with a pretty well-ordered array of triangles, basically a heightmap.
Yeah
#8501 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/05/06 01:13:10
A trisoup would have them intersecting, I assumed. Technically would work just as well if you stuck to a decent sized grid, but would be a mess to work with.
'pitch Roll Yaw' Is A LIE!!!!!!
#8502 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/05/09 10:23:22
agh, how many times will i be deceived by the stupid 'pitch roll yaw' explanation in the quakec comments and quake.def file. It's pitch yaw roll, damnit.
Heh Heh Heh Heh Heh
#8503 posted by meTch [64.148.24.219] on 2009/05/09 16:03:37
Rollin'
Getting Back Into Mapping!
#8504 posted by Drew [216.168.120.121] on 2009/05/11 21:55:54
I've installed WC 1.6 to keep things old school.
Something blocking the oldschoolness of my map making is the fact that my copy of quake now resides in my steamapps folder. Perhaps this is why I get this message when I try to compile my map?
nput file: C:\Program.map
Output file: Files\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** ERROR 34: Failed to open C:\Program.map: No such file or directory
Elapsed time : 0:00
Peak memory used : 0.0 MB
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\quake
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
** Parameters: -window +map square01
Hope I'm not retardedly missing something obvious.
Thanks!
#8505 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/05/11 22:00:11
I'm guessing it's upset about spaces in path names so that "C:\program files\..." gets truncated to "c:\program". Try installing into a path without any spaces in the name.
Or, if possible, try to surround your paths with quotation marks but that's probably not going to work in this context.
#8506 posted by RickyT23 [86.0.125.18] on 2009/05/11 22:25:10
just keep everything inside c:\quake\id1\maps and nothing can go wrong. tools, source, everything.
You Can't
#8507 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/05/11 23:16:34
What you have to do is make the path name absolute - with a " at the start and end, that way it forces the spaces to be visible to shitty windows.
So
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\quake
Becomes:
"C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
So
#8508 posted by Drew [216.168.120.121] on 2009/05/11 23:30:17
You're suggesting I add quotes on either end of the directory in the 'game' tab, correct? this isn't working.
I didn't have these problems with the steam version of half life, but I was the newer version of hammer, not worldcraft. Maybe I'll try wc 3.3...
Hm
#8509 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/05/12 00:33:16
Worked for me . . .
Cool
#8510 posted by Drew [216.168.120.121] on 2009/05/12 04:14:52
Now its working, though worldcraft is telling me that my map wasn't built.
Whatever. I can play my maps now, thanks guys!
Stupid Question
#8511 posted by jdhack [75.155.121.56] on 2009/05/12 06:20:10
Is there any engine whose software renderer works in WinXP?
Vanilla Winquake And
#8512 posted by spy [92.47.222.33] on 2009/05/12 08:09:49
aguirre's winquake should work in winxp
#8513 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.28] on 2009/05/12 09:20:27
winquake.exe
Joequake
#8514 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/05/12 10:34:38
has a software engine. You get two executables in the file. A GL engine and a software one. It works pretty good IIRC.
SW Render
#8515 posted by jdhack [75.155.121.56] on 2009/05/12 12:35:17
Hmmm, must be something with my setup. Every engine crashes right after creating the window, with some variation on the "illegal memory write" error.
I wonder if the assembly code doesn't quite work on AMD?
#8516 posted by Mandel [80.217.79.207] on 2009/05/12 19:54:46
JoeQuake and stuff should work no problem, perhaps you should update your graphics card drivers? Or DirectX.
I'm quite sure your AMD CPU is 100% compatible with the assembly code in SW Quake.
Figured It Out
#8517 posted by jdhack [75.155.121.56] on 2009/05/13 07:00:54
Had to turn off Data Execution Protection - apparently the sw renderer uses self-modifying code. I remember now I had to do the same thing to get Unreal to run.
Preach
#8518 posted by negke [88.70.62.115] on 2009/05/13 09:42:38
Shouldn't it be possible to manually define the volume of a point (notnull?) trigger with absmin/absmax/size ?
I Was
#8519 posted by ijed [190.20.69.216] on 2009/05/13 13:44:30
Thinking of that for triggers without models.
Afraid Not
#8520 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/13 19:48:09
All the important setup for a trigger is done in the qc function InitTrigger in subs.qc. Half way down this function is:
setmodel (self, self.model); // set size and link into world
Any call to setmodel will reset the values of absmin and absmax from the values read from the map. If no model is set, they go back to equal the origin of the entity.
What you can do here is specify any other precached model in the model field of the notnull in order to give it that size. For example, using progs/player.mdl will give a trigger with the dimensions of the player.
If you set the model field to be *2, it will use the second brush model in the bsp file for the extents of the trigger. This is valuable if you already have a trigger of the desired size in the map, but want to create another without using a precache. Be warned that in order to get the trigger in the right place, you need to set the origin of the notnull to equal: the offset of the desired location from the position of the original trigger.
Great
#8521 posted by negke [88.70.76.228] on 2009/05/13 20:40:18
That's absolutely sufficient (more than I hoped for). A map's standard item loadout already offers a good variety of possible sizes then. From weapon models for small triggers to Ogre/Shambler models for larger ones.
In my case, I can simply use the model of the very item the trigger is supposed to encompass (Quad) - saving precaches is vital here.
Ok, But Be Warned...
#8522 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/13 22:35:59
That'll probably get you a similarly sized trigger, but it might not be exactly the same size. This is because the notnull bases the size on the extents reported by the model file. But the quad itself follows up setmodel with
setsize (self, '-16 -16 -24', '16 16 32');
which gives it nice integer dimensions. Also, it has the FL_ITEM flag, which makes it slightly easier for players to collide with it (I'm being vague about that because I've never bothered looking up exactly how that works).
As a final warning, the size you get from setting a model may not be consistent across engines. Certain custom engines (*cough* *cough* darkplaces) have in the past reported different dimensions to regular quake. Admittedly, I've only noticed this with a sprite, but it might bother you.
#8523 posted by negke [88.70.84.169] on 2009/05/14 11:10:47
DP seems to handle mdls differently, indeed (though I didn't do much testing, either). What definitely works is using the model of a large ammo pack.
I couldn't get brush models to work for some reason. The offset thing means bottom/right/back corner, right? Or across the entire map?! I tried to use the model of the func_door beneath the item, but it wouldn't spawn anywhere near it (if at all). And triggers are not even assigned a model number?!
Heh Btw
#8524 posted by negke [88.70.247.170] on 2009/05/14 17:16:17
Too bad powerup_touch + items 4194304 + super_damage_finished 360 doesn't work except for the status bar change.
You Missed Soemthing
#8525 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/05/14 17:42:00
When you touch the quad,it sets another variable. Take a look in items.qc
But there's no way to pass this onto the player when they touch it...
Brush Models
#8526 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/14 19:36:36
Suppose that the minimum point of the existing brush model is at posA, and that you want the new entity to have it's minimum point at posB. You need to set the absolute origin of the info_notnull to be (posB - posA)
eg: existing entity has minimum at '2048 128 0' and you want a new one at '2048 256 0', then place the info_notnull at '0 128 0'. Notice that the origin of the notnull is nowhere near either the new or old triggers.
Another way of thinking about it is that the existing brush entity has it's origin at '0 0 0', so you need to place the new one relative to that offset.
Triggers are assigned model numbers, although they lose them pretty quickly in the code. If you make a quick mod where the last two lines of InitTrigger are commented out then you can see where they are. You might find it easier to look up the model numbers in the ent file that from the engine though.
I See
#8527 posted by negke [88.70.56.199] on 2009/05/14 21:18:13
Thanks for clearing that up.
The ent file has all model numbers indeed - I only looked at the edicts list before.
Modeling
#8528 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/05/15 09:21:22
As there's still not a modeling help toppic, a bit underestimated job I suppose, I'm caught with the next error.
Made a model, fixed the base skin frame, and after texturing the model starts mirroring the back and forsight.
The only thing I can do is deleting the triangle, and merge the vertices back again in the hope they'll return back in order.
Sometimes this works, sometimes not. But as I started the same model from start, I end up with a large collektion dummies with all kind of failure. And as long as I have no correkt base frame for texturing the rest of modeling is useless.
What do I do with triangles coming back up, but are divided in a lot of thin texture lines? Does QMLE scale the triangle so small the original text grid is lost, or am I looking at the inside if the triangle?
Or what to do when the model keeps mirroring the skinfile?
Door To Teleporter
#8529 posted by negke [88.70.61.67] on 2009/05/17 12:08:41
In order to save some more edicts, I changed a monster teleporter room from individual teleport ents to a monster-drop setup. Ran into trouble, wasted hours, changed stuff around and eventually managed to get it into a semi-working state.
Anyway, just to get an idea what the problem was: the original setup had the monsters move down on a func_door until they touched the teleport ents on the floor. However, instead of teleporting to their destination, they would somehow got caught in a loop, creating a tfog fireworks, took damage from the door (block) and died. What could have been wrong here?
#8530 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.157] on 2009/05/17 13:39:45
They got their fat asses stuck in the transdimensional netherlands.
Door Problem
#8531 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/17 16:29:06
That's quite a stumper, I have to admit. Unless it's some weird case in the engine physics, setorigin being called in a touch function being called inside MOVETYPE_PUSH physics, but that must occur under other circumstances...
Have you tried reversing the direction of the setup, with the teleporter in the ceiling, and the func_door moving upwards? Setting it up this way round also means the monsters can't all fall straight into the teleporter one after another.
Arrgh
#8532 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/17 16:30:10
Of course, that won't work because then the pile of monsters are just stuck, forget that.
Not Sure...
#8533 posted by generic [67.233.221.7] on 2009/05/17 17:30:23
but I tried a monster stack once and they had to be triggered in order to fall onto the teleport. Otherwise, they just stood there in thin air.
All You Gotta Do Is...jump!
#8534 posted by Preach [81.153.85.180] on 2009/05/17 18:50:46
They only run physics once you wake them up and they try to move. So I wonder if running a monsterjump trigger pushing 1 unit downwards would be enough to make the monsters respond to falling physics correctly? Since firing a teleport sets force_retouch, they should all try to jump again the frame after a monster succeeds in teleporting. It does add another entity to the count though...
Yep.. Another Mystery Solved
#8535 posted by negke [88.70.61.67] on 2009/05/17 19:23:11
generic: Stacking monsters (add a self-removing func_wall for neatness, to avoid walkmonster-in-wall-related issues) and waking them up to drop has downsides: the player can't here their wakeup sound and there's a risk of telefragging - which is why I'm slowly lowering them on the teleporters.
Yes
#8536 posted by MadFox [84.26.168.11] on 2009/05/17 23:26:10
I live in the netherlans..,
now looking for my threedimensional ass.
Ah!
#8537 posted by generic [67.233.220.63] on 2009/05/18 00:54:25
I see.
Teleporter Doors
#8538 posted by Hrimfaxi [89.150.173.209] on 2009/05/18 11:52:13
Well I have recently done the same with doors and teleporters to come under the edicts max.
I just made the dors go down into the teleporters with the monsters, and have had no faults with this setup.
Keeping Preach Employed Even In Times Of Crisis
#8539 posted by negke [88.70.62.180] on 2009/05/19 10:38:08
Mental exercise :)
My plan for the boss battle included the spike_touch trick with the owner field set to the player in order to stop the monsters from infighting and refocus on the player every few seconds. Problem is, each monster seems to need its own trigger (three, they move around in an arena) which then only works once. Placing three large triggers in one spot only works for one monster, the others remain unaffected. Is there a way to make this work?
Hrimfaxi: Hmm, probably related to the way I set this up then. Don't think it has to do with the destination side, but possibly of the point teleporters or the shelf-shaped door..
Thinking
#8540 posted by Preach [81.153.27.89] on 2009/05/21 01:41:15
I can kinda almost see a way to do that, but there's one little snag, where I need some function that sets self.movetype to fly or noclip, without setting any kind of model. I'll keep hunting for something like that, maybe post tomorrow...
.mdl To .map
#8541 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/05/24 19:42:23
Is it possible to export a .mdl (for a given frame) to .map ? any idea how to do it ?
Working Link For Quoth2 Fgd?
#8542 posted by Drew [76.75.125.51] on 2009/05/26 00:16:18
Quoth 2
#8543 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/05/26 08:21:31
Check Kell's website http://kell.quaddicted.com/
Where Is It?
#8544 posted by Drew [76.75.125.51] on 2009/05/26 18:06:52
I checked there already and couldn't find it - probably just blind, but it wasn't in the quoth editing section, and I didn't see it in the main part either.
I know that Ijed had made one up and posted it on quaddicted.com, but can't seem to find that either. I guess I'll keep looking!
Have It
#8545 posted by Preach [81.152.238.218] on 2009/05/26 19:27:17
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
It should end up on the main site eventually.
Yeah
#8546 posted by Drew [76.75.125.51] on 2009/05/27 02:15:38
Found it a minute ago, thanks!
Preach
#8547 posted by negke [88.70.56.14] on 2009/05/27 19:11:01
Any success?
Not a big deal if it doesn't work, just would've added a nice little twist to the combat (-> Shambler+Vore with having one another set as owner, Fiend to used as a living shield and temporary diversion).
Sorry...
#8548 posted by Preach [81.152.234.252] on 2009/05/28 23:45:28
It's not going to be possible. The reason is actually buried in why the trigger disappears after one use. The spike_touch function has to remove the touching spike once it's done. So I had a look to see if there was an alternative function which didn't have this side effect.
Sadly, the only functions which do damage where the inflictor is different to the attacker always remove the inflicting entity at the same time. This property is key to how the attack from the info_notnull gets the monster mad at a different entity(the owner of the notnull). So it isn't possible to continue doing it multiple times.
If it's any compensation, I did discover a very cool hack on the way, which I hope to share with a testmap this weekend...
Ah Ok
#8549 posted by negke [88.70.69.79] on 2009/05/29 19:09:50
Looking forward to the new hack, though. Means that my question wasn't totally fruitless.
Re: Engine Standards
#8550 posted by negke [88.70.60.61] on 2009/05/29 22:13:57
Fitzquake brightens up the models heavily, while they are only dimly lit in Glquake. If I increase the light to make them look remotely acceptable in GL, they are almost fullbright in Fitz. Or conversely, models that look right in Fitz are barely visible in GL. This makes the pent-over-the-void secret almost a Fitz-exclusive. Fark off, both of you...
You Been Reading
#8551 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/05/29 22:31:31
Irvine Welsh Negke?
No, But It Also Affects The Shubs Which Is The Real Problem
#8552 posted by negke [88.70.63.191] on 2009/05/30 12:29:36
A tip for bringing down the edictcount: info_player_deathmatch entities are not removed in a single player game, so remember to give them spawnflags 1792. This will break the DMSP mod, though.
Question
#8553 posted by Tronyn [70.76.34.81] on 2009/06/01 01:30:51
using aguirre's tools, how does one do an entity compile on a bsp when one already has the bsp and a .ent file
(I used bspinfo to generate a .ent, edited it, and now want to recompile the map).
Really Dont Know Man
#8554 posted by RickyT23 [82.27.236.72] on 2009/06/01 01:55:24
Email him? I would :)
Worldcraft
#8555 posted by ijed [190.20.64.100] on 2009/06/01 05:34:42
Compile window has the only entity option, although you have to suffer the window itself.
Otherwise should be in the docs on his site.
Tronyn
#8556 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/06/01 06:57:07
txqbsp -onlyents mapname.ent
If that doesn't work, rename the .ent to .map and try again.
Negke:
#8557 posted by metlslime [24.130.223.174] on 2009/06/01 08:04:25
But, fitzquake only emulates the original software lighting, which glquake deviates from. Since so many played glquake for so long, you could argue that the "standard" is dim lighting and lack of fullbrights, but at least fitzquake has those options if you know the right cvars.
For a mapper, there's no good solution other than making a map that is 99% enjoyable on any engine, even if a few things are less than ideal on some engines.
Cool
#8558 posted by Tronyn [70.76.34.81] on 2009/06/01 23:06:55
Thanks guys. Also if anyone else wants to volunteer to test, the more the merrier (I have 3 testers atm, along with others who are in on the project(s) like PM, or are consultants/observers (ijed).
Last Hack Question For This Map (hopefully)
#8559 posted by negke [88.70.49.191] on 2009/06/04 19:14:50
Almost had this working but now my mind is too messed up and I'm tired of trial and error'ing my way through Quake logic.
What I need is a single entity that simulates an item pickup upon triggering: use the model, play the sound, remove itself.
"classname" "info_notnull"
"origin" "-140 1256 -152"
"targetname" "red_arena"
"think" "InitTrigger"
"use" "multi_use"
"killtarget" "red_arena"
"noise" "items/armor1.wav"
"modelindex" "233"
"model" "progs/armor.mdl"
"skin" "2"
"delay" ".2"
"nextthink" "9999"
This doesn't work obviously - what's the right think/use function to use here?
Duh
#8560 posted by negke [88.70.249.71] on 2009/06/05 18:05:58
Didn't see the forest for the trees yesterday.
This one works:
"classname" "info_notnull"
"origin" "-140 1256 -152"
"use" "multi_trigger"
"touch" "SUB_Null"
"noise" "items/armor1.wav"
"modelindex" "233"
"model" "progs/armor.mdl"
"skin" "2"
"targetname" "red_arena"
"killtarget" "red_arena"
"delay" ".1"
Building Ladders In Worldcraft 3.3
#8561 posted by mapper [58.106.147.78] on 2009/06/07 05:01:25
Hi,
can anyone help me out and tell me how to build ladders in quake?
I'm using worldcraft 3.3 but cant find out how to build ladders o_0
Any help would be appreciated.
Ladder Trick
#8562 posted by ijed [190.20.85.45] on 2009/06/07 06:00:54
Make a set of clip brush 'stairs' - the clip texture makes them invisible. Each step should be 16 units high, but only 2 units wide.
The player moves up vertical space instantly so the steep stairs will move the player up whilst they cross the small horizontal space.
You could also make the stairs out of normal brushwork, but I'm guessing you want something that looks like a ladder as opposed to steep, infinitly thin steps.
To have a proper ladder - climbing down, normal speed movement etc. you need code Quoth has ladders, as will RQ.
Result!
#8563 posted by ijed [190.20.84.159] on 2009/06/08 06:43:58
WC 3.3 working on windows vista / ATI -
http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/...
Drop the file into your wc folder. Which most likely you installed onto another machine and then copied to your vista machine.
Ah, progress.
That's 3.3 Btw
#8564 posted by ijed [190.20.84.159] on 2009/06/08 06:44:45
And Fix For
#8565 posted by ijed [190.20.84.159] on 2009/06/08 06:45:19
Selection in the 3d window.
Ok
#8566 posted by ijed [190.20.84.159] on 2009/06/08 06:52:30
But it's adapting the UV's to the visible verts, so turning the camera causes an acid trip. As in texture distortion within the face.
Wc 3.3 Texture Conversions
#8567 posted by Drew [76.75.67.210] on 2009/06/09 05:11:50
never work for me, no matter the wad. trying to use ikbase - won't work. there are no textures too large in that file, so I'm not sure why it isn't automatically converting. Not too handy with tex mex, either. is there a simple way to convert wad files other than the program provided with bakers wc 3.3 installer?
I'm almost sure there is an obvious solution right in front of my nose, but I'm too burnt out to see it.
Same Problem Myself
#8568 posted by ijed [190.20.84.159] on 2009/06/09 05:40:54
Drew
#8569 posted by spy [92.47.201.147] on 2009/06/09 16:47:11
just load the wad file with texmex, then go to file ->save copy -> save to wad3
this should do the trick, as i'm usually do it
http://www.imagebam.com/image/8d9f...
I'll Try It!
#8570 posted by Drew [76.75.67.210] on 2009/06/09 17:04:07
thank spy!
...nah
#8571 posted by Drew [76.75.67.210] on 2009/06/09 17:45:08
doesn't work.
I need to convert them to hlwad files, not wad3!
Im Surprised You Cant Get The Worldcraft Quakeadapter Tool
#8572 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/09 17:51:15
to work! I never had any problems with it, except if the wad contains over 1000 textures it will fail, or if one of the textures is too big (like >256x256 or something) then it wont work either.
The .wad files must be placed in worldcraft\textures\ then it just works automatically!
Im using XP32 BTW, havent tried other OS's. If you would like me to convert a wad for you and email it to you I would be happy to, just give me a URLs for the wads you want converted!
Hmm.
#8573 posted by spy [92.47.201.147] on 2009/06/09 19:37:35
with a hammer3.4 it works fine, maybe wc3.3 a bit differs
Hey
#8574 posted by hey [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 02:36:35
I'm using Worldcraft 3.3 and trying to make my first Quake map. Quality wise its pretty visually appealing but I suck whenever it comes to traps and shit(I have the ideas but I cant technically implement them). So I have a question. How do I make a monster teleport in. The only teleport entity I have is info_teleport_destination and that just lets me give a name, not a target... PLEASE help. i have a lot of good maps iw ant to make but this really puts a hault to that.
Hey You
#8575 posted by generic [67.233.223.87] on 2009/06/10 02:43:56
I included the MAP (source) file for my last speedmap, here:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
It has several monster teleporters in it.
To Teleport A Monster
#8576 posted by RickyT23 [86.26.252.180] on 2009/06/10 02:49:25
under standard Quake progs, first you have to make a small box-room away from the main map, put your monster in there. Then make a brush which covers the monster.
Next select the brush and click the "to entity" button (or right click the highlighted brush and select "tie to entity" or whatever it is from there.
Make the brush into a "trigger_teleport", set teleporters target to the name of your teleport_destination, and also give the teleporter a unique "targetname" (the name of the teleporter).
Then make another brush which will be the trigger for the monster teleporting in, so make sure it is in a place where the player will walk into it, and cant walk around it. Highlight this new brush and click on "to entity". Make this one a "trigger_once". Set the target of the trigger_once to be the same as the targetname of the teleporter you have already made.
These "brush entities" you have made will not appear in-game, so it doesnt matter what texture you give them. Most wads contain a texture called "trigger" which has "trigger" written all over it, but this is not necessary, any texture will work. I use the "trigger" texture as a marker so I can see which brushes are entities in my editor.
You can set "keys" of the trigger entitys to do things such as alter the amount of time it takes for the trigger to fire, for example, after the player has touched it, messages you want to appear in the middle of the screen and what sound is to be played (if any) when the trigger is fired.
Teleporting Monsters Tutorial?
#8577 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 03:03:52
I really have all these great ideas for maps and traps, and some of them involve teleporting monsters. I am using Worldcraft 3.3 and the only entity I see for telpeporting is info_teleport_destination... is there any help you guys can offer? Basically I want the player to step in a specific area and have an orgre teleported to a certain spot. What do I have to do to get this to happen. I can't seem to get it to work... and I all these great ideas. I would REALLY appreciate it if someone could help :) thanks in advance :D
Sorry I Lagged Out
#8578 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 03:06:05
thanks for the teleport help guys, ill try it out. sorry for the lag outs. wernt sure if my messages got through so i posted twice for save keeping. ima go try out these suggetions :D thanks alot
Ricky
#8579 posted by Drew [76.75.67.210] on 2009/06/10 06:07:12
I'd love the kingpin set and maybe the ikblue... I'd love tons of them to be honest, but those two sound pretty inspiring right now. Thanks, dude!
OK, Gimme A Little While.......
#8580 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/10 10:14:17
(at work)
OK Success!!!
#8581 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/10 11:57:45
That was very hacky!
Yeah - for some strange reason IKBlue wouldnt convert because of two or one weird files within the wad. I had to remove a rather cool door texture (like 8 triangular wedges with symboly on it) and the pallette file to get it to convert.
As for the kingpin textures - well that wouldnt convert and it wouldnt say why! So what I did was open Wally (good old buggy Wally) and make a new package, a half life package (to which it attributes the file extension ".wad" rather than ".hlwad"), than I opened the kingpin .wad in wally, manually select all of the textures (using the left hand index column of Wally), copy them. Then go back into the new package, paste all of the files in. Then I saved this new package.
When I went to the directory through windows to view my new wad, it appeared as a 0Kb file, but when I copied it into another folder it came up as being 23Mb. Then all I did was rename the file from "kpin.wad" to "kpin.hlwad" using windows rename function (right click on file, click rename). Then I tried to load it into Worldcraft and it worked!! Job done!
Weird and annoying NOTE:
First I tried to do this on Windows Vista. Putting the original ikblue and kingpin wads in my worldcraft\textures\ DIR then loading WC brings up the all_wads_to_hlwad tool on startup. In Vista it calls an error for each wad, but wont show any details of either errors. In Windows XP it calls out the error for texuture No. 51, which atleast helped me identify which texture it was causing the problem. I used Wally to remove the bad texture and pallette file and it worked as normal.
But even under XP there was no detailed error report for the kingpin texture.
So in conclusion Drew I would recommend the following method in future:
1 - find your wads of choice
2 - open a copy of Wally: http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wa...
3 - open your first wad to convert
4 - click on "file-> new-> Half Life Package (wad3) (wad)"
7 - when the new empty wad file is opened, go back to the quake wad you are converting, select all of the files using the left hand index column, then drag and drop them into the new package.
8 - save your new package as normal, wherever you want.
9 - close Wally, and navigate to the folder with the new wad inside. Rename the new wad to "title.hlwad"
10 - Go and make a cup of tea! :P
PS - I will email you my results shortly! :)
Another Question
#8582 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 22:45:29
ever since i started compling maps ive noticed I cant even see my hud in the quake(I use the ezquake client). did it fuck up my resolution somehow? i mean my resolution is 800 x 600 like its alwayus been. but now part of the console drifts away and flickering where my hud should be. that happens on all hud types, 'classic' 'new' 'combined' and so on. PLEASE can someone help?
Well
#8583 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/06/10 22:47:37
+ and - make the HUD bigger or smaller, but I doubt that's the problem.
What engine are you using?
#8584 posted by Spirit [213.39.186.45] on 2009/06/10 22:53:33
ezquake is for Quakeworld. Use Fitzquake for singleplayer: http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake...
Well
#8585 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 23:02:24
the thing is ive always used ezquake for singleplayer before and it only JUST started happening when i began compiling maps. idk what could have gone wrong. its hard to describe. i cant see my HUD, usually whatever i was previously looking at(such as console) fills that in... if you know what i mean, how if you ever float outside a map that kinda thing happens. its relaly really annoying and its completely fucked up my HUD. no idea how to fix it. but yeah ive ALWAYS used Ezquake for everything and its been just fine up until now
Great
#8586 posted by Drew [98.124.14.35] on 2009/06/10 23:23:32
thanks!
Ilovequake:
#8587 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/06/10 23:53:38
maybe try gl_clear 0?
Hmmmmmm
#8588 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/10 23:58:59
that makes it a black box with only the numbers shwoing up and other small things where my hud should be ... very very strange................
Tools
#8589 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/11 13:25:28
My current map is breaking my compile tools in bad ways so I was thinking of upgrading to some better ones. Are these the best available?
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
And, if so, am I looking for Tx/TreeQBSP or "Enhanced versions of RVis, Light & BspInfo"? Which tools are guys using for large maps currently?
Both
#8590 posted by negke [88.70.227.86] on 2009/06/11 13:27:04
And use Tx instead of Tree.
#8591 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/11 13:28:36
Are you sure? The TX has an older release date than Tree. What's the difference/problem with Tree?
#8592 posted by negke [88.70.227.86] on 2009/06/11 13:30:28
Afaik, aguirRe once mentioned that Tx is the preferable one because of the tjunc calculation (which Tree apparently lacks).
Yeah
#8593 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/11 13:32:03
Your looking in the right place! TxQBSP is proabably considered to be the best (fastest, most stable, extended limits, enhanced bug and error reporting etc, etc, etc). Infact AguirRes light and vis tools are also awesome - the light tool has some fantastic features, and it can even emulate other modified light tools, as well as giving the most hi-res lightmaps for Quake that I think are currently possible!
All Hail AguirRe!! (Mr Yardrup for those who dont know him as AguirRe)
Only problem for you will be running them on OSX, Mac thingeymajig... I think they're all Win32 applications, designed for use with Windows XP.
Seriously though, the TxQBSP is a godsend - used it to compile horrible maps like Sickbase, which were full of errors.
/me Shows His Amateurish Colours
#8594 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/11 13:33:53
Hmm
#8595 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/11 16:06:46
Yeh, but I'm sure you can use Wine or some other VM on Mac to run the tools fine. And it's not like there's a viable Mac native alternative...
Alternatively
#8596 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/06/11 16:32:18
Compile them yourself?
#8597 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/11 16:36:06
He includes source code. I'll convert them to Mac (it's usually just a bunch of warnings that need cleaning up as the id tools are written in portable C) and replace the ones inside of my level editor with those. I remember asking him about that a long time ago and he was cool with it...
Hmm
#8598 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/11 16:41:00
Aaah, I wasn't aware it was that easy to cross-platform compile. Lack of GUI/anything except proprietery math I guess.
But yeh, if it's that simple then that'd blatantly work...
#8599 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.36] on 2009/06/11 17:11:34
Didn't stevenaus, lazy_bum or gb port aguirre's qbsp and light to linux? That would be a start.
#8600 posted by gb [89.27.246.239] on 2009/06/11 18:50:04
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/bj...
I hope that is the latest version.
Willem, some stuff is dependant on Windows system calls, although Bengt always said that he tried to avoid that. The wildcard support in wad names for example. So for convenience I simply cut that.
Treeqbsp was easier to port than Txqbsp. Whatever, I don't have problems with tree - quite the contrary.
If you port Txqbsp, I would be interested in the source. I'd also be interested to know if the current stuff compiles on a Mac.
I planned to multithread the vis using your code, but haven't done so yet due to my whole life being absorbed by that bloated monster over there that was once an innocent little project.
I also want to implement origin brush support, since I seem to be the last man standing on that front, but haven't done so for the same reasons.
Anyway, if you do something, can you upload the source somewhere plz?
#8601 posted by gb [89.27.246.239] on 2009/06/11 18:51:37
It's also a c/c++ mixture so I use g++ to compile, even for the C files. There is some compiler option that makes it possible, look in the makefile plz.
#8602 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/11 18:56:31
Yeah, I'll do what I did last time ... I'll create XCode projects for the tools and then I can set flags and all that junk pretty easily. Shouldn't be an issue although if there is Windows specific stuff now that will take a little longer. Still, shouldn't be a problem.
Treeqbsp And Tjuncs
#8603 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/06/12 00:22:38
i've always used aquirre's treeqbsp because I was using the original treeqbsp before aguirre tooke it over.
I think long ago the tree guy stupidly disabled tjunc repair, but later added it back. Or maybe aguirre added it back. Anyway, it should correctly repair tjuncs now, as far as i know...
Jesus
#8604 posted by Drew [98.124.14.35] on 2009/06/12 07:09:57
So I used your method Ricky, but...
Although the wad file I created shows up in Wally, itdoesn't show up in my computer or worldcraft.
I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out soon enough...
Nevermind...
#8605 posted by Drew [98.124.14.35] on 2009/06/12 07:11:10
I was being dumb.
TxTree
#8606 posted by negke [88.70.50.192] on 2009/06/12 10:06:42
So which one is better then (despite the fact that it probably doesn't matter since both are good)?
Hello Again, Back With A Problem ...
#8607 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 11:10:31
Something weird.
The map I'm making crashes most Quake engines on startup. But if I use the Quake-on program to start the map directly (not via Worldcraft)with a mod selected, it works. So I select the Travail or Zer mod in the Available Patches section of Quake-on and then put "Mymap" in the map section, it does work. How can that be ?
I prefer my map to work on it's own, not using other people's mods.
Well, What Is Teh Crash?
#8608 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/12 11:15:22
is there an error message?
Certainely...
#8609 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/12 11:24:04
.. you have missed an option in your command line like -heapsize or -winmem or something like this.
Verify your engine launch command line setup in your editor, and try to reuse it in "standalone"..
It happened to me several times already ;)
#8610 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 11:26:41
With Darkplaces the whole game crashes and the Windows Error Report screen comes up.
With Tomaz I get SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allow overflow set
SZ_GetSpace: Overflow Without Allowoverflow Set
#8611 posted by negke [88.70.50.192] on 2009/06/12 11:34:00
These error messages indicate various memory buffers overflowing, typically in the protocol. The
major cause is too many things happening at startup, while playing or when loading saved games,
typically occurring when playing on Hard/Nightmare skill due to more entities.
Load the map with BJP's enhanced engines and in developer mode, it might print more helpful warnings.
#8612 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 11:47:58
Excessive static entities (187, normal max = 128)
,I get in aguirRe engine. It will play the map though. Eventually. I've still got problems with starting aguirRe's Gl Quake, it takes about 5 minutes (!) to start up. I'm in a messy situation at the moment, having just reinstalled my PC and I've also just switched my video drivers.
Ron:
#8613 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/12 12:01:41
aguirre's engine is a good choice for loading maps that crash other engines, which is often caused by exceeding certain limits. Aguirre's engine will load the map and usually explain what limits you've exceeded.
If you have more than 128 static entities, that will reliably crash most engines. Assuming you want your map to be playable in most engines, you will need to reduce that number. Static entities include func_illusionary, light_torch, and other flame/torch entities.
Note:
#8614 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/12 12:02:46
fitzquake 0.85 should also load most limit-breaking maps, you could see if that has a faster load time for you.
Still Weird Though
#8615 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 12:13:28
But the thing I don't understand is that it does work, even in DP if I play it through a mod.
Could there custom progs have something to do with it ? Just guessing here, I don't know much about all this stuff. All I know is that I've got a map that's nearly finished and it's (maybe) good enough to show to the rest of the Quake world.
However, I know that I need to learn a lot more about efficient map making if I ever want to become a really good mapper. But I'm not giving up ! :)
Static Ents Limit Is A Real Pain
#8616 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/12 12:42:37
I hit it on my little Coagula map! Its not so bad with base maps, but torches in medevil maps blows it.
I had to remove some torches and add weird lights instead.....
#8617 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 12:58:06
Maybe I could compensate a little using the +0, +1 trick and then adding normal light functions.
I'll try something ...
#8618 posted by negke [88.70.51.117] on 2009/06/12 13:35:54
You could of course get hacky and turn some of the torches into dynamic entities, but replacing them by texture light sources would probably be best.
Friday After All ...
#8619 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/12 16:15:56
Well, I'll leave this for now.
The sun is out and I'm off to the pub.
Have a nice one, thanks for the help !
I Don't Get This At All.
#8620 posted by Drew [98.124.14.35] on 2009/06/12 17:11:32
I can create the half life wad using wally. I can see it in wally (AND TEXMEX!) but it doesnt show up in 'my computer' or in worldcraft, even when I change the file extension to .hlwad. I am not enough of a computer dork to wrap my head around what I should do here. this is killing like, 80% of the enjoyment I used to get from mapping.
Hmmm
#8621 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/12 17:29:29
That's weird man.
Where are you saving it to from Wally?
Drew
#8622 posted by spy [95.56.22.49] on 2009/06/12 18:47:04
try hammer instead, it's pretty same as wc
Aguire's Tool's On Os X!?
#8623 posted by grahf [216.163.127.240] on 2009/06/12 21:29:40
Excuse me, I just came in my pants. Hope you can get it working, Willem.
#8624 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/12 21:31:39
It's my project for the weekend so I'll report back!
Buttons
#8625 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/13 05:56:05
hey i have a quick quesiton. im making a sewage map and i have a slightly discoloured single brick that i want to make shootable(only once) that will open a secret door. could anybody be kind enough to give me a quick little tutorial on that? :P
Ok
#8626 posted by ijed [190.20.65.64] on 2009/06/13 06:19:56
Make the brick a brush, then make it a button entity and give it a health of 1. The player can't pus it, only damage it, at which point it fires its target - the secret door.
Yeah
#8627 posted by iloveQuake [70.121.201.141] on 2009/06/13 07:00:57
yeah but for some reason it pushes back then comes right back out. i want to make it so it stays 'shot' and dosnt elt the player shoot it again. since it opens a secret door. ive made it a func_button but i see no option to make it 'shootable once only' or anything in that regard
#8628 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.233] on 2009/06/13 07:57:19
wait: -1
Quick Question ...
#8629 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/13 10:12:01
The normal "light" entity is not a static entity ?
#8630 posted by negke [88.70.60.195] on 2009/06/13 10:58:59
Normal light ents are only used for lightmap creation (by light.exe) but do nothing in-game. They don't take up any entity slot unless they have a switchable or blinking light style.
#8631 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/13 11:13:45
Thanks.
#8632 posted by Drew [76.75.125.214] on 2009/06/13 15:17:02
Saving the file to c/program files/worldcraft/textures...
Maybe I'll try saving it in the wally folder?
Hooray For New Tools!
#8633 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/13 15:26:43
No, I'm not done yet but I do have TreeQBSP running on OSX and it solved my recent compiling woes. Well, it's hacked together so it works anyway. I need to go back and fix my hacks and smooth out some rough spots before I can call it "done" but at least I can compile my level again.
I'll work on LIGHT and VIS next... Woot!
Out Of Curiosity...
#8634 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/13 19:24:03
What is the standard today in terms of WAD specification? I know that multiple WAD support is a must but is it generally assumed that the worldspawn entity has full paths to the WAD files or are relative paths still expected to work (i.e. "gfx/metal.wad")?
I ask because it's getting hairy trying to support both and would be easier if I could just support full paths.
Initial BJP Tools Done
#8635 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/13 22:06:37
These aren't perfect and require things like full paths for WAD files to work correctly, but they do work on OSX with multithreading support:
http://wantonhubris.com/BJPToolsOS...
There are binaries in there as well as source code for those who are so inclined. I'll be massaging these a little as I get a new version of my level editor ready for release (one of these months), but these work!
Willem
#8636 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/14 00:52:30
relative paths are prefered. there is a maximum limit to the number of characters you can put in a string, so when using multiple wads, if you had to type in the absolute path all the time, you'd quickly use up those chars.
#8637 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/14 13:09:49
OK, I'll have to come up with a set of rules about where it looks for everything then.
Hmm
#8638 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/14 16:01:19
Surely just getting it to check the folder the tools are in and <quake root>/gfx should be enough.
That and mebe a default WAD dir settings option added to search locales.
#8639 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/14 16:10:20
Well, <quake root> and <quake root/mod>. There's a bunch of permutations. I'll figure something out. I'm probably just going to pass the Quake path and the current mod name to the BSP tool to give it a big hint.
Hmm
#8640 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/14 17:15:48
Shit, forgot about mods (again). But yeh, throwing it the Quake path and mod name should let it find the WADs easily without having to search the entire HDD...
#8641 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/14 18:48:21
That's my current plan. I'm going to pass it the Quake directory and the current mod name. That will allow it to try looking in the gfx folder in the mod, the gfx folder in id1 and if those fail, use whatever it has as a literal path. That should be enough!
Hmm
#8642 posted by nonentity [78.86.152.78] on 2009/06/14 20:02:14
User defined custom 'uber wad folder' path from settings?
(I'm just making suggestions, all my WADs are in the Q3 map folder with my compile tools/batch files)
Wait...
#8643 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/14 23:15:18
is is all this an attempt to avoid supporting both full and relative paths?
#8644 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/14 23:51:23
It's cool, the code is written now. It support relative and full paths as best it can. Now to add multiple WAD support to ToeTag itself...
Mapping Isn't All That Easy, Actually ...
#8645 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/15 10:07:34
I'm having a bad feeling about my map ever getting finished.
First I got a (new) error, this time in the VIS, a nasty "Vismap expansion overflow".
I thought I'd try something to (try and)fix it, I made large parts into a Func_wall.
The (fast)Vis works OK now.
Only now the Light does not work, I don't get any errors but the level is full bright.
Now I understand the phrase "don't give up your dayjob"
#8646 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/15 11:11:12
Well, mapping for Quake is actually one of the harder disciplines. Quake is relatively primitive and therefore has many gotchas for stuff that modern engines don't care about. It's very unforgiving at times. :)
Ron
#8647 posted by negke [88.70.232.140] on 2009/06/15 11:56:04
Either your map is VERY huge, or it's leaking. Are you using the latest (Bengt Jardrup's) compile tools?
Turning stuff into func_walls has to be done with caution. It lowers the VIS time, but may well be contraproductive in other areas.
A map usually doesn't get fullbright over night (heh). Double-check your settings. Or maybe it's caused by func_walls + skylight..
Wait
#8648 posted by negke [88.70.232.140] on 2009/06/15 12:01:35
You didn't box it, did you?
Post Your Compile Log
#8649 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/15 12:21:32
So we can see it. Beware the maximum post length though, you may have to split it into two halves...
The QBSP log would be the most helpful
This Is It, Without The Func_wall Trick,
#8650 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/15 13:15:45
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "E:\Quake\ID1\MAPS\map.map&qu... "e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map.map&qu...
** Executing...
** Command: F:\gametools\WorldCraft\QTools\Qbs...
** Parameters: e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map
TreeQBSP v2.05 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Input file: e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map.map
Output file: e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
----+----+
13386 faces
2308 brushes
523 entities
79 unique texnames
2400 texinfo
27 texture frames added
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
2041 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
11736 brushfaces
14349 csgfaces
11889 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
15547 split nodes
6673 solid leafs
8717 empty leafs
158 water leafs
29675 leaffaces
26381 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
1177 outleafs
---- MergeAll ----
11626 mergefaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----+
7485 split nodes
3251 solid leafs
4188 empty leafs
47 water leafs
19866 leaffaces
15947 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
4235 vis leafs
15742 vis portals
---- Tjunc ----
15158 world edges
55601 edge points
14249 edges added by tjunctions
2 faces added by tjunctions
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
---- WriteBSPFile ----
7856 planes 157120
22989 vertexes 275868
8326 nodes 199824
2400 texinfo 96000
17343 faces 346860
22072 clipnodes 176576
4994 leafs 139832
21337 marksurfaces 42674
81294 surfedges 325176
41390 edges 165560
106 textures 1737648
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 40467
1 warning
Elapsed time : 0:16
Peak memory used : 22.1 MB
** Executing...
** Command: F:\gametools\WorldCraft\QTools\lig...
** Parameters: -extra e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map
----- LightFaces ----
extra sampling enabled
523 entities read
lightdatasize: 364948
0 switchable light styles
83.0 seconds elapsed
** Executing...
** Command: F:\gametools\WorldCraft\QTools\vis...
** Parameters: -fast e:\Quake\Id1\maps\map
---- vis ----
fastvis = true
4235 portalleafs
15742 numportals
************ ERROR ************
Vismap expansion overflow
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: e:\Quake
** Executing...
** Command: e:\Quake\darkplaces.exe
** Parameters: +map map
OK I See One Possible Explanation:
#8651 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/15 13:25:50
You should run the vis tool before you run the light tool!
I would recommend compiling the map using a command prompt (windows "dos box").
Copy your tools (TreeQBSP.exe, vis.exe and light.exe) into your e:\quake\id1\maps\ directory.
Then go through your start menu to Programs=> Accessories=> "Command Prompt"
Type (without the quotes) "cd e:\quake\id1\maps\" then press enter
Then type "TreeQBSP map" (where I noticed that "map" is the name of your map :), press enter and the program will run as normal
Then run vis, i.e. type "vis -fast map" or "vis map" then press enter.
Then run light, so type "light map"
Note: If im telling you things which are obvious to you here please dont be offended.
It is definately risky to run light before vis, and I think that might be the source of your problem.
Awaiting more feedback....... :)
I Didn't Know That ...
#8652 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/15 13:39:50
[quote #8651 posted by RickyT23]
You should run the vis tool before you run the light tool! [/quote]
I didn't know that, I always assumed that WC's standard was the right way. I'll give your suggestion a try.
What do you think about the figures though ?
Are they what you would call high, and is there room for adding stuff ? I still have to put some things in.
PS. it takes a lot to offended me ;), I'm actually very happy with all your help and feedback !
#8653 posted by negke [88.70.232.140] on 2009/06/15 13:45:22
It is definately risky to run light before vis, and I think that might be the source of your problem.
The order in which one runs them doesn't matter. Both tools create individual data and store them in the BSP - they're independent from each other.
Ron: it seems as though while you're using the new TreeQBSP, it's still the old LIGHT and VIS tools that come with Worldcraft? If that's the case, switch to the BJP ones and see if that helps.
As For The Figures
#8654 posted by negke [88.70.232.140] on 2009/06/15 13:48:29
They aren't too high or anything. There's still plenty of room for new stuff. TreeQbsp will tell you if the map exceeds any of the BSP limits.
Im Sure I Read Somewhere That Light Data
#8655 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/15 13:54:12
in a map can screw up the vis process. Maybe im going mad! :)
Ron: Negkes right about the tools, use these tools:
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/vi...
Also TreeQBSP is good, but I remember AguirRe saying that TxQBSP was better for some reason, TreeQBSP didnt compile sickbase IIRC.
TxQBSP:
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/tx...
:S
Yeah !
#8656 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/15 13:57:39
I wasn't sure if I was using Bengt Jardrup's Vis and Light's so I downloaded them again. I also did run the programs outside WC in a Dos box, combining both your suggestions. And it worked fine ! The fast Vis worked and Light as well !
And a lot faster too ! Thanks a lot ! Really, I'm quite happy, I've been working so long on this damned map now, it would be rather sad to have to bin it now ...
From The Log It Looks Like A Pretty Clean Build You Have There!
#8657 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/15 14:15:13
The only warning is a superficial one, and with 22000 odd marksurfaces/clipnodes it must be a fairly large or detailed map :)
This is a useful source of info regarding Quake 1 mapping tools, buy AguirRe:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
try runnning the bspinfo tool on your map too see the limits and how close you are to them...
Also post some screenshots please :DDD
#8658 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/15 14:53:46
"The order in which one runs them doesn't matter. Both tools create individual data and store them in the BSP - they're independent from each other."
This is my understanding as well. If anyone has any concrete information about why vis should be run before light, I'd love to hear it.
AFAIK, as negke said, they are totally independent of each other.
The Other Thing
#8659 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/06/15 15:48:10
You can do is alpha testing - send your source to an established mapper who's already had to battle through the compile issues, they'll be able to point out known issues.
The less time you spend banging your head against a wall and the more time inventing cool stuff the better.
Don't know how much time I'll have this week, but probably by thursday I can take a look if you want - my emails under 'people'.
Thanks Once More ...
#8660 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/06/15 16:43:01
To Rick: I'll run the bspinfo tomorrow or later this evening, I'm now doing a full vis, it's at 47.19 % at the minute and I've still got an estimated 7h 44 minutes to go. I think I will kill some time (and probably braincells too...) in the pub ! As for screenshots, I'll try to get some of more or less finished areas later. I have still got to do quite a bit of texture alignments and stuff like that to do. I don't want to post anything that's just not quite, ehm, good enough.
To Ijed: Thanks for your very generous offer !
I really appreciate it, and, if the offer still stands and you have time, I will gladly make use of your expertise. But to be honest, at the moment I'm back in and will battle on until the next problem arises.
Thank you all. You've made my day ! :)
You Know It May Well Take More Than 10 Hours
#8661 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/15 17:17:31
for the vis to finish, it will slow down as it nears completion!
I once had a map which took 6 and a half days to vis. And JPL, well he's the current record holder........
It must mean that the map has some large areas in it with a fair bit of detail, or some tiny details in it, or that there are places where you can see through a lot of rooms from some angles....
#8662 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/15 17:20:53
There are some basic tips to follow like - if you have gratings make out of brushes, func_wall them because each hole in the grating is a portal and VIS will need to process it and all of it's children. Very nasty.
The same goes for railings, cages, barred windows, etc.
#8663 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/15 17:21:26
The only drawback there is if you were counting on cool shadows to be cast. In that case, well, suck it up and eat the VIS time. :)
#8664 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/15 17:22:48
That said, I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with a version of light that would cast light from func_walls (optionally, of course). If you aren't going to be removing the func_wall at some point through a killtarget, it seems perfectly reasonable to use it as a shadow caster.
Hmm
#8665 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/15 22:13:41
Something for you to do next weekend...
#8666 posted by gb [89.27.229.57] on 2009/06/16 00:04:10
Good job on the tools Willem. Multiplatform ftw.
This is my understanding as well. If anyone has any concrete information about why vis should be run before light, I'd love to hear it.
Some of the light programs use vis information to do quicker lighting. I think Lord Havoc's tool does this. Not sure on bjp's.
Some tests seemed to indicate that bjp's vis does more effective culling than others, btw.
#8667 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/06/16 00:19:03
That said, I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with a version of light that would cast light from func_walls
This has been on my compiler wishlist for a few years, along with other stuff like self-shadowing bmodels, global illumination, minlight on bmodels, light contribution caching for fast re-lighting after small lighting changes, "manual vis" (as used in medal of honor), portal-based vis (a static variant of the portal visibility used in doom3), hard-edged shadows, cubemapped lights, shambler clip brushes (hull2 only), nonsolid brushes (hull0 only), etc. I have hacked up the compiler sources a little bit over the years, but never enough to produce anything finished enough to release. (seriously, not even finished enough that i could use it for everyday mapping.)
#8668 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/16 00:19:29
Even if that were true, lighting is very rarely the bottleneck. I suppose it could be cool if you were wanting to do fast iterations on lighting or something though...
Multiple WADs
#8669 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/16 11:55:06
I'm not familiar with how editors work with multiple WADs so as I add support for them into ToeTag, I'm going to have a few questions. Heh.
OK, so if you load up 2 WADs that have a texture inside of them with the same name, what happens? Say you load WAD1 and WAD2 and they each have a texture called BLAH -- what do level editors commonly do about that? Hold them both? Only use the first one they see?
WC
#8670 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/16 12:16:08
will show all of them in alphabetical order, and it will show two of any textures the same. So when I have a load of IDbase wads loaded there are often two or three of each of the common textures in a row on the display......
#8671 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/16 12:27:37
Excellent info, thanks!
OK, so how does the UI work for Worldcraft?
How do you load multiple WADs? How do you unload a WAD you no longer want (or can you)? Are you just editing the worldspawn key/values or is there an actual dialog box for it?
You Go To Tools=> Options
#8672 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/16 13:14:09
Which brings up a dialogue with several tabs ranging from 2d diplay options, your build programs, and one of them "is textures". Here you find a list of your current wads and the options to remove any you have highlighted and to load other wads. You can load as many wads as you like,and they will appear straight away in your textures. Removing a wad from the list requires a restart.
You cant actually see any textures from here.
You get to see all of the textures whenever you enter "texturing mode" (or whatever they call it). If you enter texture mode via a button on the left margin of the screen. If you press the button with brushes highlighted then all of the faces of those brushes become highlighted. A 90 degree right angle symbol appears in the middle of each face to make it easy to see what angle it is at.
A small dialogue appears near the right of the screen with a picture of the current texture on it. Beneath the texture are all of you alignment buttons (left, right, mcenter, top, bottom, fit) and your integer fields for x and y scaling and x and y position, and angle. There is a button beneath the picture of you current texture to open a window where you can see all of the textures you have loaded, and select another one. You can narrow the textures being shown to you by typing letters in a sort of search field.
As for the worldspawn, you never have to worry about that, WC just adds the correct paths into the worldspawn whenever it exports its RMF format into a MAP file. Along with a nice annoying key "mapversion" which it gives the value "220" and you have to remove it manualy (unless you have the utility "nomapversion.exe") :P
#8673 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/06/16 15:33:12
Oh OK, so it's a global setting and not set up per map. Alright, thanks!
Heh, I Can't Stop
#8674 posted by negke [88.70.236.209] on 2009/06/18 22:20:38
Suppose this won't work, but asking anyway:
A push that only works when being touched from a certain direction like regular triggers with an angle field? Perhaps with a movedir/angles combo, or bastardized use of trigger_push_touch?
Same Textures In Multi-wads
#8675 posted by roblot [216.106.107.9] on 2009/06/19 02:52:35
I was making some custom wads lately with the same textures in them and the BSP editor i'm using shows just one of them (a 2 frame animation). I was wondering though, has anyone been able to load a 512 by 512 texture in their editor? The biggest i got to see and use are 128 by 512, and 256 by 256. The wad i made with a 512 by 512 texture shows correctly in a wadviewer i got, but shows up as a 32 by 32 white texture in BSP.
Nvidia Driver Conflict With WC 1.6
#8676 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/19 16:22:39
This is just as a heads up for anyone still using Worldcraft 1.6 (myself) and who has the latest nvidia drivers. Apparently, if your driver version is anything higher than 182.50, your 3d view in WC will look something like this:
http://qrf.mine.nu/~orl/misc/wc.pn...
However, enabling the hardware acceleration option will fix the 3d view problem, unfortunately that also raises the other problem of not being able to select any object within the 3d view.
Again, anything higher than version 182.50 of the nvidia driver will result in WC's 3d view going crazy, and essentially useless.
Wait
#8677 posted by Drew [216.168.101.234] on 2009/06/19 16:33:26
you can make triggers only work from a specific angle!?
Play
#8678 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/06/19 16:35:25
Negke's tall map - Skinny Norris I think it's called. Have to take the puzzle route.
To have an angle trigger make the angle something other than 0.
Orl
#8679 posted by ijed [190.20.66.131] on 2009/06/20 02:09:20
Find the openGL.dll that I posted earlier in the thread and put it in your wc folder. It might fix the problem.
Drew, Ijed
#8680 posted by negke [88.70.54.23] on 2009/06/20 09:01:22
Or simply: the start map ("this hall selects.." triggers)
#8681 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/20 11:16:34
Wow, I NEVER noticed that the start map triggers did that. All these years, so weird...
Ijed
#8682 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/20 15:51:23
Sorry, but I can't seem to locate the openGL.dll you had mentioned. I checked this Mapping Help thread, but found nothing. Care to point me in the right direction?
Pipes And Curves
#8683 posted by gb [89.27.238.31] on 2009/06/20 18:18:38
czg's curve tutorial, does someone have a link to it with the pictures intact?
Wouldn't this and the hiprotate tutorial be something to archive at quaddicted?
#8684 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/20 19:16:39
Try this gb:
http://shub-hub.com/files/misc/Cur...
I think that's the one.
Thanks
#8685 posted by gb [89.27.238.31] on 2009/06/20 20:20:04
.
That's it, indeed. I can never remember this stuff :-P
#8686 posted by Drew [216.168.101.234] on 2009/06/22 07:16:08
maybe a dumbass question. working on a sm, tested it out - a door moves. perfect right? added some more stuff, now it doesn't trigger.
its a lowering platform, and a setpiece that I need to keep. any ideas whats going on here?
#8687 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/22 07:41:21
you said it was a lowering platform, which would imply it's pretty big.
are there any doors that come close to intersecting it? it might be linking.
#8688 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/22 11:31:22
Yeah
Try the "door dont link spawnflag" on this door and any other doors near it.......
QBSP Error
#8689 posted by negke [88.70.55.232] on 2009/06/22 14:25:47
Help! What could be the problem here??
TxQBSP 1.13 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Inputfile: trinca/genitals.map
Outputfile: trinca/genitals.bsp
------ LoadMapFile ------
18 faces
3 brushes
2 entities
3 miptex
8 texinfo
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
----+----+
3 brushes read
------ CSGFaces ------
----+----+
18 brushfaces
18 csgfaces
18 mergedfaces
------ SolidBSP ------
************ ERROR ************
SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (0 0 4), caralho1_2
1 warning
Elapsed time : 0:00
Peak memory used : 0.1 MB
Looks Like A Fault QBSP
#8690 posted by Spirit [213.39.211.65] on 2009/06/22 14:31:36
It should process CZGFaces, not CSGFaces!
Trinca/genitals.bsp
#8691 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/06/22 14:43:08
rofl
#8692 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/06/22 15:32:59
negke miss my penis -:|
u´re such a hore!
Negke
#8693 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/22 16:13:38
Texture may be scaled too small, if I remember well... Check aguirRe's tool tips
Orl
#8694 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/06/22 16:14:23
http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/...
That's the 'fix' put it in your WC folder.
It basically retards the software to use old drivers. It might work.
Apparently there's other solutions, like using virtual machines etc.
Negke: JPL Is Right
#8695 posted by RickyT23 [86.26.252.180] on 2009/06/22 18:39:16
Thats a texture too small. At "0, 0, 4", right in the middle of your map.
Fow Show
Payce
JPL, Ricky
#8696 posted by negke [88.70.69.34] on 2009/06/22 18:42:02
I know.
Hmm
#8697 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/06/22 18:51:06
Texture may be scaled too small
That or the fact it's only 3 brushes (I'm guessing two spheres and a tube...?)
Nonentity
#8698 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/06/22 20:45:14
like this 8====D ?
smartass :P
Fuck
#8699 posted by Drew [216.168.101.234] on 2009/06/22 20:56:26
yeah, yeah. of course.
To Get Rid Of That Error
#8700 posted by spy [95.56.8.132] on 2009/06/22 22:06:02
you should change the map title
#8701 posted by spy [95.56.8.132] on 2009/06/22 22:07:03
caralho1_2
i'd like to see that texture ;)
Ijed
#8702 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/23 13:58:14
Using the old opengl32.dll didn't work, unfortunately. The problem still persists.
No Fix Then
#8703 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/06/23 15:41:06
ATI / Valve barstuds.
No Fix...
#8704 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/23 17:01:42
It's actually Nvidia but yeah, bastards. I don't even see how this driver update manages to screw with the 3d view, since I don't have it set to use hardware acceleration. Wouldn't it just use the CPU to render the 3d view?
I don't know, and I can't use old drivers forever.
#8705 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/06/23 17:16:46
Orl i never had problems with nvidia :| and i always had nvidia grafic cards
Orl
#8706 posted by rudl [85.126.193.66] on 2009/06/25 20:30:46
try to disable desktop effects
Rudl
#8707 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/25 22:07:32
Like what, exactly?
The only thing I can think of is aero, and aero has no conflict with Worldcraft, as old as it is.
Orl
#8708 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/06/26 00:45:27
Radiant needs desktop compositing to be turned off to work properly in Vista. This will disable Aero while the program is running. Recent versions of NetRadiant do this automatically. You never know, it might work...
Lardarse
#8709 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/26 01:37:53
But I'm not using Radiant. I am using Worldcraft 1.6.
But alright, I'll accept the fact that there is no fix for this, and that Nvidia is solely to blame. This is not a Vista issue in any way, Worldcraft works perfectly fine in Vista. This is Nvidia's doing.
I Blame
#8710 posted by meTch [69.183.84.220] on 2009/06/26 01:53:27
society caused this, Orl.
Destroy Vista
#8711 posted by PuLSaR [94.246.126.18] on 2009/06/26 03:36:10
I'm drunk, &#1103; &#1087;&#1100;&#1103;&... &#1073;&#1083;&#1080;&... &#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&... &#1087;&#1080;&#1087;&... &#1089; &#1090;&#1077;&#1083;&... &#1089;&#1080;&#1076;&... &#1090;&#1091;&#1090;, &#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&... &#1087;&#1086; &#1087;&#1100;&#1103;&...
Orl
#8712 posted by negke [88.70.63.5] on 2009/06/26 09:19:08
I can't use old drivers forever
Do you have an older card? If so, using the latest drivers is not always recommendable.
It
#8713 posted by ijed [190.20.97.209] on 2009/06/26 14:12:57
Upgrade to WC3.3?
If both ATI and Nvidia have problems then it seems stupid to blame two different companies - maybe the software architecture is just bad.
Negke And Ijed
#8714 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/06/26 15:08:59
My current card is an 8800gt, only about 2 years old. Why wouldn't upgrading to the latest drivers be a good idea?
I haven't tried WC 1.6 with an ATI card, do you know if it has the same problem, or a similar problem?
Let Face It Here:
#8715 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.218.55] on 2009/06/26 15:30:35
WC 1.6 is a very old program, designed for Windows98. In WC3.3 I have occasionally encountered a bug where you cant select faces in the 3D view, and you can then only grag the view around in the 2D views and cant select anything. Rebooting the computer fixes the error. I always use the latest drivers for my 8800 card, in XP32. Forceware 186.16 is the current stable build, and works fine for me.
Orl - I recommend you make the transition to 3.3 because it has many other improvements over 1.6/1.6a, i.e. texture lock works properly etc
Orl
#8716 posted by negke [88.70.49.4] on 2009/06/27 10:05:35
Because at some point drivers tend to put the focus on new(er) cards and contain changes that may result in worse performance (or even glitches) for old(er) ones. So sometimes it's wise to stick with an older version if it works fine (and if newer ones don't seem to bring any visible gain).
I don't know how it is with a 8800gt (or two year-old cards) - it takes a bit of experimenting with driver version.
WC3.3
#8717 posted by ijed [190.20.81.27] on 2009/06/27 14:38:58
Is worth the change overall. The texture control is a huge bonus.
It has its quirks, but you get used to them. The only ballache is converting the textures, that is automated thanks to Baker's pack, but when it doesn't work it's frustrating.
Couple Of Questions About Skip Tool
#8718 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/27 20:09:16
skip textured brushes cast shadows?
skip can be run after aguire's q1 tools?
#8719 posted by negke [88.70.52.40] on 2009/06/27 20:16:36
Yes.
Yes.
Sweet
#8720 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/27 21:25:38
going to build a shadow mesh for a large door out of skip then.
... except that i just realized... skip will cause the interior to be void... when the origin of the door travels through the skip brush, it might flicker or disappear? o.o
Er...
#8721 posted by Preach [86.156.59.30] on 2009/06/28 00:28:30
Also players may find it hard to walk through the opened door with skip brushes there.
Also....
#8722 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/29 01:32:26
in software renderer, a func_door surface that is coplanar with a structural skip surface will not be drawn. So make your shadowcaster thinner than the func_* object.
And what preach said, the skip will be collidable, so hopefully you have a plan for dealing with that :)
And...
#8723 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/06/29 01:33:32
your door won't disappear as long as part of the bounding box is inside a visible leaf.
Oh So
#8724 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/29 02:59:17
it is the bounding box that determines visibility then.
i guess i should have realized that. :P
thanks for clearing that up, and yes, it wouldn't be used for an actual door, but things like extending bridges (that aren't accessible anyway) or towers that move as well as rotaters.
Yet More Questions..
#8725 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/29 03:27:41
aguire's light.exe.
does it support coloured lighting normally?
i see that it supports -tyrlite95 which is supposed to do coloured lighting, but i can't seem to figure out how to actually get it to generate a .lit file.
also, is the spawn key '_color' or 'color'?
Necros
#8726 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/29 08:05:03
aguirRe's light tool does not support colored lights by default AFAIK. You would need to add the "-tyrlite95" in order to enable it, but I never tested this feature. I also guess you need to add a "-lit" option in your command line in order to enable .lit file generation, but I'm not sure. Also, the spawn key is "_color"...
Experimentation is the better school there ;)
Well
#8727 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/29 09:55:27
i messed with it yesterday, but it doesn't seem to actually work.
-tyrlite95 works, that alone doesn't generate a .lit.
according to the tyrlite docs, you're right, you need -lit before it generates anything. unfortunately, -lit is an invalid command line arg for aguirre's light. :S
so it looks like it's either use the real tyrlite and make do without sunlight stuff and delay 5 lights, or colours. :P
Necros
#8728 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/29 10:24:14
Other solution is to ask aguirRe about his modified tyrlite light tool.... I'm using it actually... The only penalty is it does not support the second sunlight.. but is it really a problem ?
JPL
#8729 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.223.18] on 2009/06/29 10:49:47
Modified Tyrlite light tool!?!?
I hit an "entities" limit (of 2048 I think) with the last map. Does the modified tool allow for more entities in the map (not light entities, but ALL entities)? I had to keep switching entities about just so I could light the map! lol . . . .
RickyT23
#8730 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/29 10:57:24
I clearly don't know: ask aguirRe directly
Entity Limit
#8731 posted by negke [88.70.61.193] on 2009/06/29 11:18:00
This sounds odd. Why would the compilers refuse to accept a map that exceeds a limit. Usually it's the engine.
I don't know if it helps in this case, but you could give the -hilimit option a try.
AFAIK
#8732 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/06/29 11:19:53
-hilimit is required for QBSP processing, or am I wrong ?
Well There's Not Much Of A Problem Now:
#8733 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.223.18] on 2009/06/29 12:57:33
Starkmon was already released, with exactly 2048 entities in it :)
But when I tried to run tyrlite with more entities in the map than that it threw out an "excessive entities" error and wouldnt run.....
Annoying at the time. Although it brings light (no pun intended) to the issue: with all of these expanded limit engines, coloured light can only be applied to maps with less that 2048 enitities.....
#8734 posted by gb [89.27.197.177] on 2009/06/29 16:20:43
hmap2 supports sunlight etc, AND colored lights.
The result looks noticeably different from bjp-light though. :-/
There's probably some command line option buried somewhere that makes it behave like tyrlite etc.
Coloured light / tyrlite is somewhat old, hence maybe the limit thing.
Hack the source to increase the numbers? Or try hmap2.
Or ask Willem to hack colored lighting into bjp-light. I really can't do it atm, my schedule is full.
Thanks Jpl
#8735 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/29 19:52:41
i'll ask. i tried hmap2 and tyrlite out but i can't believe the difference not having all the extra stuff aguirre added. it's like going back 5 years. :P
Probably Silly Question
#8736 posted by negke [88.70.57.147] on 2009/06/29 20:01:12
Can't you just use aguirRe's tool for the lightmap data and independently from that Tyrlite for the .lit file?
Assuming you don't want colored sunlight. How does the delay 5 attenuation formula differ from the regular one?
Iirc
#8737 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/06/29 20:28:05
colored lighting is basically the difference. so it looks at the point in the map with whatever light level, then it subtracts from the lit the the amount stored there to give rgb, so if the lightmap data is different from the .lit lightmap data, you get garbage.
also, delay 5 is like delay 2 except the max light level never goes over the 'light' amount, so you don't get overlit areas that are completely saturated. it's basically an upgraded delay 2
Mixin The Lit File
#8738 posted by RickyT23 [86.26.252.180] on 2009/06/29 21:04:35
from tyrlite with a light data from light.exe results in a weird disco light effect, not good.
#8739 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/01 03:51:54
i was looking at the vis source code from aguirre's vis.
in soundpvs.c, there's:
if (!Q_strncasecmp (miptex->name, "*water", 6))
Ambient[i] = NoAmbientWater ? -1 : AMBIENT_WATER;
else if (!Q_strncasecmp (miptex->name, "sky", 3))
Ambient[i] = NoAmbientSky ? -1 : AMBIENT_SKY;
else if (!Q_strncasecmp (miptex->name, "*slime", 6))
Ambient[i] = NoAmbientSlime ? -1 : AMBIENT_WATER; // AMBIENT_SLIME;
else if (!Q_strncasecmp (miptex->name, "*lava", 5))
Ambient[i] = NoAmbientLava ? -1 : AMBIENT_LAVA;
else if (!Q_strncasecmp (miptex->name, "*04water", 8))
Ambient[i] = NoAmbientWater ? -1 : AMBIENT_WATER;
you can see that slime gets assigned to AMBIENT_WATER, but it seems as though lava will be assigned AMBIENT_LAVA.
the thing is, it doesn't actually do anything.
i looked through fitzquake source code, but i wasn't able to find the spot that starts and stops the looping ambient sounds (wind and water) depending on where you are. does anyone know more about this?
Necros:
#8740 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/01 05:27:43
those four ambients (sky, water, slime, lava) are global sounds that play in the map, and vis calculates the appropriate volume to play each sound for each leafnode.
I don't have the engine source with me at the moment, but there will be client-side code in there that plays those sounds and adjusts the volumes based on the current leafnode.
Decompiling
#8741 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/02 22:56:48
I was curious about some old files I have with quiet remarkable capeabilities. Fact is that I often tried to decompile the progs.dat of files with the
qcc.exe -dec
but then I received the error
Error opening defs.qc: No such file or directory (ENOENT)
Is there a way to translate these stuborn files?
Right
#8742 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/03 02:06:38
decompiling
Original QCC Can't Decompile
#8743 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/07/03 23:49:35
UnQCC ProQCC and FrikDec can.
Well...
#8744 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/04 01:57:29
I ment proqcc but my hastiness cropped the text.
I used it to decompile the old Wilbur mod in which I succeeded.
Now I have the flamethrower.qc
Then I spend houres to subverse all the binairies in the Malice progs.dat to get the progs.scr which didn't worked. (of course)
Why did they messed up the progs.dat so bad?
I thought the licencewars nowadays were fairly obsolete?
o^o^o
#8745 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.91] on 2009/07/04 02:09:12
If I recall decompiling progs correctly: Their source code might have been good. But the decompiling cannot restore it in its glory. Thus the results from decompiling are not good.
It's almost like decompiling maps.
On The Other Hand
#8746 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/04 02:23:43
I might be violating a GPL licence.
#8747 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/04 02:30:42
Normal progs.dat is divided in parts like:
defs.qc blah ai.qc blah world.qc blah etc
Malice progs.dat is divided in parts like:
¡Ï&#9788;&#9835;* blah &#9689;¡Î&#9786;&#9787... blah &#9658;&#9835;&#9668;¢... blah >¡é#&< blah etc
so the decompiler immediatly stucks on the
can't decompile ¡Ï&#9788;&#9835;* part.
I thought to be clever to change these parts in the same text as in the normal quake progs.dat but this didn't worked (of course).
Mf
#8748 posted by ijed [190.20.120.36] on 2009/07/04 06:04:29
And Spike's version? Even if there's not an official it's a cert he has one.
We can't compile RQ without fcqcc for the multi-frame and the other stuff.
Hmm...
#8749 posted by Lardarse [62.31.165.111] on 2009/07/05 19:04:43
I don't know if FTEQCC can decompile. I do know that stuff compiled with it will usually not be able to be decompiled by other things.
MadFox: Yeah. Someone believed that it would make it impossible to decompile if they used a program to scramble the strings that were the filenames of the QuakeC files used to compile it. If you can hex-edit something meaningful into those parts of the file, then you should be able to do it.
Digit Block
#8750 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/06 23:45:01
I don't know about Spike's version, where can I get it?
Should I check his site or email?
I tried FTEQCC, with no succes. And as I tried to fill in the hexidecimal parts I'm sure they're reiterated in the folowing hexidicimal part. As I'm not convenient with a binaire interpretator it's almost impossible for me.
Check Site First?
#8751 posted by ijed [190.20.69.7] on 2009/07/07 01:49:30
Items Falling Out Of The Map
#8752 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/07 20:22:52
Hello again,
When I started my map in Bengt Jardrup's engine some items are not there. They were there in Dark Places. I use Worldcraft 1.6, by the way. I remember reading about this happening sometimes, but all related internet articles seem unfindable now.
#8753 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.223] on 2009/07/07 20:39:54
You placed them too close to brushes (walls probably). Move them away a few units and it should be fine.
Err
#8754 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.223] on 2009/07/07 20:40:16
Of course walls, you can place stuff on the floor just fine.
Thanks !
#8755 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/07 20:47:31
It's gonna be a damned puzzle making it alright though. Strange DP's doesn't mind. I had most of the weapons in cases. Oh well, I'll try something else then ...
Help! No Textures :(
#8756 posted by LTH [94.193.174.213] on 2009/07/08 20:06:15
Hello,
Just cracked open WC3.3 (+QuakeAdapter) to start mapping again. When I compile & run my map, none of the textures appear in-game. Anyone had this before? Anyone got any ideas?
Ta :)
#8757 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/08 20:23:44
That generally means that QBSP can't find the WAD files during compilation. There should be a message about it in the compiler output.
Do You See Them In Editor?
#8758 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/08 20:36:13
#8759 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/08 20:38:02
No good advice, but if they're in editor you should be good. As Willem says check the compile window for errors, and your paths in the editor setup.
And make sure to use AguirRe's tools, although I think Baker packaged them inside the adapter.
Nt
#8760 posted by LTH [94.193.174.213] on 2009/07/08 22:52:52
Thanks, Willem - that's it: "WARNING: No valid wadfiles in worldmodel" from qbsp.
How can I get qbsp to find the right wads?
(I'm on Vista, which might be part of the problem.)
#8751 Ijed
#8761 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/08 23:10:41
spike's version, right
and where can I find his site?
Ask Jonas
#8762 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/09 00:18:34
I think he's on inside3d but I've never actually talked to him.
LTH
#8763 posted by negke [88.70.49.36] on 2009/07/09 01:55:34
Uhm, edit worldspawn in WC or a text editor and add "wad" "..."?
Negke
#8764 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/07/09 08:15:08
It means that worldspawn will point onto a single wad file... But unfortunately, when you use different textures from different wad files, you will have to concatenate it before it works... hence more work...
Other solutions is to use a proper editor: QuArK owns this very well you know.. I guess it is the same for other editors ;)
So rather than editing the worlspawn, I would suggest to run the compiling processes from the editor itself, that may embed the proper wad generation with the necessary textures... safiest way to go I think ;)
No.
#8765 posted by negke [88.70.79.237] on 2009/07/09 08:38:18
Editing the field manually, you can still have it point to multiple wads. And WC was one of the first editors to support this.
I assume the textures show correctly in the editor, so what if it's indeed some Vista issue? Maybe simplifying the paths could help.
Negke
#8766 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/07/09 10:07:03
Dunno actually, I've never tested such feature, manually at least... I'd rather prefer to stick to something I'm sure it is working ;)
Heh
#8767 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.89] on 2009/07/09 12:02:17
One thing is very bad about Quark's texture handline though. It re-renders all the textures each time you open the texture browser. And it does not let you properly use it during that. This means that you will have to wait several seconds (for bigger wads) until you can select a texture.
#8768 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/09 13:00:26
Spirit put file links... mine is fast...
#8769 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/09 13:00:46
and i always have lots of wads instaled!
Hmm
#8770 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/07/09 16:09:34
key "wad", value "wad1.wad;wad2.wad" in worldspawn, put all the wad files in the same folder as the .map/compilers. Like negke said, it'll eliminate the possibility of it being misread paths...
(And manually specifying wads is a breeze compared to using an editor that has features you require missing (or has undocumented 'features' you'd rather avoid ;)
Hmm
#8771 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/07/09 16:09:44
)
(sigh)
#8772 posted by negke [88.70.56.248] on 2009/07/09 18:51:58
What is with me and the slow portals all the time...
#8773 posted by LTH [94.193.174.213] on 2009/07/09 20:14:35
Thanks for the help. Seems like I can add a "wad" key but the value field isn't long enough to fit the path of more than one wad! Even so, the .map file gets generated with another (presumably worldcraft-generated) wad key, with all of the .hlwads in it, which is clearly wrong.
So how can I get worldcraft to generate the correct .wad names instead of using .hlwad...? anyone?
WC3.3?
#8774 posted by negke [88.70.85.249] on 2009/07/09 21:22:31
Text editor then. No idea how to change it permanently.
LTH
#8775 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2009/07/09 22:32:44
In WC go to Tools\Options\Textures Tab and add the wad files you need. They will show up in the map files automaticaly. Compile should work without problems. Maybe you have too long paths to the wads also.
#8776 posted by LTH [94.193.174.213] on 2009/07/11 02:46:29
This is really dumb - I've had exactly the same setup working perfectly well before.
Ankh - I'm using WC3.3, so I have to specify .hlwad files in it - which are obviously incompatible with Quake. I thought that the quake adapter did some magic so that at compile time it would re-insert the correct wads, but apparently not (or at least, not in my case).
It Doesn't
#8777 posted by ijed [190.20.73.90] on 2009/07/11 03:34:46
Because it's pretty direct what happens with WC.
But it's fucking irritating when things don't work as they should.
You should have a folder inside WC called textures with all your wads in there. Inside the editor you go to tools/textures and add the wads that are inside that folder manually.
And you're good.
Tech support isn't easy across a forum - but that should set you right.
The adapter does nothing magical, it's just a collection of tools - most of the legwork is still yours, so patience and experimentation is needed.
Also
#8778 posted by ijed [190.20.73.90] on 2009/07/11 03:37:10
Quake does accept HLWAD - but worldcraft 3.3 doesn't accept wad. It's a big hack, but it does work, at leaast until the tex conversion tool refuses to do the business.
Is Full Vis Still Necessary ?
#8779 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/11 10:22:40
I'm still working on my map, but when I run it true the Fitz or aguirRe engine with a fast vis only, it runs smooth as can be. Is full vis still necessary in this day and age ?
Another thing, if you get the "Excessive static entities" warning and just ignore it, do you get any real problems ? I don't care about warnings, but are there any consequences ?
#8780 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/11 10:40:02
it's a choice you make. if you go over limits and get warnings in fitzquake, then you have to accept that it won't run in some engines.
as for full vis, my opinion is that it's just sloppy not to full vis. it's free performance, since not everyone has a monster machine and the quake engine becomes a lot less efficient at drawing stuff. the performance loss is not linear.
#8781 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/11 11:18:40
I agree. It's a basic level designer skill to be able to seal your map and get a good VIS. And necros is right that it's not a linear thing - without a VIS, you're drawing the entire level with tons of extra lightmaps to boot.
#8782 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/11 11:32:47
OK, thanks.
I thought it only had to do with speed, so gameplay doesn't become choppy.
#8783 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/11 11:57:34
Speed is a large part of the reason but there are other concerns, yeah.
Also
#8784 posted by ijed [190.20.109.239] on 2009/07/11 13:59:04
There's lots of ways to build a map where full vis doesn't have to take weeks. Level of brush detail, turning details into func_walls, making LOS blocking 'doughnut corridors' putting clip brushes inside small holes and so on.
Its finnicky stuff to do, but it makes the map very easy to compile - which is important for betatesting, since not everyone has a powerful machine as mentioned. Some might be emulating in Wine or have other issues.
My Quake machine will have trouble on non-fullvised maps, for example - a decent incentive to keep my maps well built.
#8785 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/11 14:01:44
"putting clip brushes inside small holes and so on. "
I don't see how this would improve VIS times. Clip is a collision thing while VIS looks at the rendering side of things, right? If you meant plugging up holes with solid brushes then, yes, that would help...
Too Many Static Entities Is A Bad Thing
#8786 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.20.199] on 2009/07/11 14:09:35
the consequence is that some static entities wont appear in game (like torches and stuff)
AguirRe's engine should tell you how many static entities you have and what the limit is (256 IIRC)
Take some out and replace them with other light sources (i.e. light textures)
Ok
#8787 posted by ijed [190.20.109.239] on 2009/07/11 14:11:24
Not vis help, but general good building of the map.
For example putting a crate in the centre of the room on the floor or putting a crate in the centre of the room floating 2 units above the floor.
The second one is better (and invisible to the player) because it causes less subdivisions, which also helps compile time.
No. Wrong. Don't Do This.
#8788 posted by czg [83.255.58.4] on 2009/07/11 14:39:28
Nevermind. I'm Wrong. But It's Still Dumb. And Makes Extra Portals.
#8789 posted by czg [83.255.58.4] on 2009/07/11 14:50:47
Hmm
#8790 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/07/11 15:46:45
As CZG so eloquently explained, while this will indeed reduce subdivisions of the floor, the saving in VIS time/polycounts will be negligble when compared to the creation of many tiny, tiny vis portals under the crate (which'll slow down you VIS a fair chunk, especially if done with every crate in a level (there should be as many as possible))
Hm
#8791 posted by ijed [190.20.109.239] on 2009/07/11 16:04:10
Fair point - I'll go back to my cave now.
#8792 posted by negke [88.70.242.123] on 2009/07/11 18:32:54
It's not dumb. It can lower the polycount considerably (depending on the area) and I doubt a few additional tiny portals will slow down VIS "a fair chunk." There's a more definite risk of ugly shadows beneath/around the crates, though.
However, speaking of poor VIS design: I'm now (again) stuck at a slow portal with no progress for a full week.
Nasty
#8793 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.20.199] on 2009/07/11 19:22:02
#8794 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/11 21:30:55
found something interesting out about the hipnotic rotating stuff.
had never noticed this before, but you can attach ANY entity to a func_rotating_*
as long as the entity's targetname matches the target field of the func_rotating_*, that entity's origin will be continuously updated to match the position and angles of the rotater. i haven't tried, but i suspect it may not work with bmodels because of the way quake handles those, but point entities (even monsters o.0) work.
i was able to build a func_rotating_train which had torches attached to it as it moved about.
the effect is kind of ruined if the rotater actually does rotate though, because the angles of the child entities aren't updated, only their positions.
#8795 posted by AEnoch [207.118.217.223] on 2009/07/11 22:48:50
clip brushes would help with BSP times as it's already telling BSP what areas to not put hulls. Some of the best ways to avoid high vis times is to avoid small brushes, huge open areas, and overly complex geometry (which is boring to me.)
I've never really understood the entire fretting about vis time other than your giving up use of your machine while vis takes place. Why should it matter if it takes 1 hour or 1 day as long as the map has good game play, is built properly, and looks great?
Most people playing these maps aren't wondering how long it took to Vis. They're having fun hopefully.
Dear Programmers:
#8796 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/07/11 23:05:02
Detail brushes have existed in Quake (1) for a long time.
http://quest-ed.sourceforge.net/fi...
http://quake.chaoticbox.com/downlo...
It's a pity they've never been incorporated into more modern compilers, because they really do work to cut down vis times. I used pOx's eUtils quite a bit back in the dark days of mac quake editing. They even have nifty features the Quest tools don't, like non-solid detail brushes. So you can have your func_walls and func_illusionaries, but they still cast shadows etc.
AEnoch
#8797 posted by Lardarse [62.31.163.65] on 2009/07/12 01:20:56
The problem is that, these days, people are making maps that don't so much take days to fullvis as weeks.
It wouldn't be so bad if this trend wasn't utterly unnecessary...
No Q1 Map
#8798 posted by ijed [190.20.109.239] on 2009/07/12 02:25:16
I've ever made has taken more than ~5 hours to compile.
Someone's about to post a warp map compile of 6 hours to prove me a liar.
Remember that this is a mapping forum, on the mapping help thread - this is the place where we complain about vis times.
Yeah, But ...
#8799 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/12 11:17:26
In reaction to post #8797 posted by Lardarse:
Yeah, but if someone was to come up with a decent map, about ID sized, who would take notice ?
If you look at the work of people like Ijed, Tronyn, CZG, Necros, Kona and Kell(to name a few of the best ever), it's almost all huge. And I like it.
ID's Quake was great, but what these people have made is so much better. Better even than all the crap games you can buy in the stores these days. Works of art that inspire people like me to try and come close to, even without having all the knowledge that they've got.
#8800 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/12 11:51:24
The size of the map shouldn't matter though. Proper construction and respecting the engine should result in reasonable VIS times. If you build a gigantic football field with bleachers, well, yeah, that will take forever to VIS but in my mind that isn't proper construction.
You can build a large map and still have VIS be reasonable.
Having said that, my current map is going to be a bastard once it's sealed. I've committed a lot of VIS sins and I know the VIS gods will punish me for it.
#8801 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/12 11:52:11
"Yeah, but if someone was to come up with a decent map, about ID sized, who would take notice ? "
A map the size of an id1 map that was nicely detailed and well put together would be well received I think. You couldn't duplicate the originals and get away with it anymore but that size of map isn't necessarily a problem, IMO.
Fuck Limitations...
#8802 posted by JPL [77.196.179.215] on 2009/07/12 12:09:15
... do whatever you think is cool... And you end up in a 2 month fullvis map :P
#8803 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/12 12:15:24
I dunno. I guess I'm of the mind that you have to keep evaluating your 'return on investment'. A map that takes 2 months to VIS isn't necessarily 60 times better than a map that takes a day. It may just be built wrong.
Lack Of Skill / Knowledge
#8804 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/12 12:36:36
I agree that lack of skill or knowledge is the bottleneck for people who start mapping. Even people who have been doing it for years could be making things more difficult for themselves without them ever knowing. That's why it is a shame that so many websites dedicated to map making are disappearing.
#8805 posted by spy [95.56.5.11] on 2009/07/12 13:12:27
ID's Quake was great, but what these people have made is so much better
bear in mind that id's levels was made ~95/96, do you remember, any custom levels of such quality those years?
I'm With JPL
#8806 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.190.92] on 2009/07/12 13:41:07
If I build a map and people enjoy it, that's my return on investment (your pleasure is my pleasure, in a non-kinky way). I map for fun, not for money. My computer is not a 'resource', it's a hobby.
Sixty hour vis times is fine by me, I'll be doing plenty of other things in the foreground. So, time is not the issue: impatience might be.
#8807 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/12 13:44:23
*shrug* Sure, to each his own. I obviously map for fun -- why else would I be making Quake maps? There's no money in it.
Well
#8808 posted by ijed [190.20.95.223] on 2009/07/12 14:02:56
I'm working on id1 remixes now and I find that everything gets slightly bigger - the originals feel very crampt by todays standards.
I tend to add lots more areas as well - my e3m3 is now around twoce the size but started off with a similar layout. I add the extra stuff just because it's fun to have.
A load of times in the id1 maps I'll come up to a dead end or a room just begging for expansion, and can't stop myself. Because it's fun :)
Still fullvising in under an hour in the above example.
#8809 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/12 19:29:47
Haha, of course, I get the map sealed and a full VIS takes 3 minutes. WTF?
See? You Got All Worked Up Over Nothing
#8810 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/07/12 19:50:32
#8811 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/13 04:21:56
if a trigger_multiple killtarget's itself, is that the same as a remove() in a touch function? o.o
Necros:
#8812 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/07/13 08:44:07
killtarget is better because it sets the think function to SUB_Remove, which happens safely in the next think frame. If you remove() in a touch function it happens immediately, which could screw up the linked list of edicts, which can crash the engine.
#8813 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/13 20:20:52
thanks for explaining the difference :)
now an even weirder question:
is it ok to build outside the 4096 boundaries if the player is never supposed to get there?
i know from past experience that the visual component of the map will be visible if it's outside the 4096 cube. the only thing that's bad is that the moment the player's pov passes outside, he seems to 'loop' back to the other side.
but the actual collision will still be correct, it just looks as if you're on the other side of the map.
so if i built a sort of skybox (brushbox? o.0) outside the 4096 as pure decoration and clipped the boundaries of the playable area, would it break anything? i've never tried making a full map with a lot of brushwork outside the boundaries, just usually it's a few stray brushes because i was careless. :P
Necros:
#8814 posted by metlslime [71.202.219.105] on 2009/07/13 20:30:00
it's something i've thought of doing too -- should work, as long as the player or entities or anything else but world brushes stay inside teh bounds (e.g. if you shoot a rocket out past the bounds, it will look pretty funny.
If entities/effects/sounds etc go outside the bounds, the only issue really is that they will be rendered in the wrong place. Server-side physics and movement and and stuff will still work fine.
Anyway, you could make a pretty cool horizon/vista out past the bounds, like a cityscape or mountains or whatever.
#8815 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/13 20:38:56
excellent! i wanted to make sure there weren't any kind of hidden engine glitches that would crop up.
there's still maybe a matter with vis.exe calculations? i don't know if it cares or not whether the pvs' it's calculating are within any boundaries or not.
Necros:
#8816 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/13 22:15:01
well, it's fairly untested ground, so there are no guarantees, but as far as i know, the only thing enforcing a +-4096 limit is the network protocol, so everything else should theoretically work with the larger space.
#8817 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/13 22:30:52
well, i decided to try it out, so i guess we'll see. o.o
i guess the good thing about it being purely decorative is that if it doesn't work, it's just a matter of deleting it without impacting gameplay.
#8818 posted by AEnoch [207.118.217.223] on 2009/07/14 01:54:05
So if you go beyond the 4096 boundary do you come out the other side like in Pac-Man?
Seems
#8819 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2009/07/14 02:08:24
to be the case unless there are special engines used or summat.
Thought
#8820 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/14 02:16:54
the squad shadow by making an object above the sky is the same issue.
Aenoch:
#8821 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/14 04:41:39
Yes, but it's a purely visual thing, your actual location on the server does not wrap around -- just the coordinates sent to the client.
#8822 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/14 12:27:47
Are you sure about that? If you jump off an unsealed level and loop a few times, you can still land on the level itself and have proper collision which would imply that you are, in fact, wrapping around in terms of your coordinates...
Dimensions / Metrics ...
#8823 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/14 14:44:20
Hi,
Does anyone have any information on the metrics / dimensions used for the Quake world ?
I'd like to understand what each unit represents and how big fixed size entities are, in terms of real world application.
Thanks
-Mic
#8824 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/14 14:53:29
I've heard it's 8 Quake units is a foot, but I don't know for sure. I just fool around until it looks right.
Willem ...
#8825 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/14 15:03:01
It was actually ToeTag that prompted this question as I was wondering what size the grid squares represented and how you knew what size to draw the 'fixed-size' entities etc
-Mic
8 Units = 1 Foot ...
#8826 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/14 15:08:38
Yep, just found confirmation on this page ...
http://toolz.nexuizninjaz.com/shad...
Unders the measurements section.
Will now work to this scale.
Thanks
-Mic
#8827 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/14 15:37:17
Well, the entity sizes are specified in the .QC files and the models and things that are read in are automatically scaled correctly since the entire editor runs in Quake coordinate space.
Willem ...
#8828 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/14 15:54:50
Thanks for pointing me to the .qc files ... that'll come in handy.
You see that's where I get confused, you said above 'I just fool around until it looks right' but now you say 'models and things that are read in are automatically scaled correctly since the entire editor runs in Quake coordinate space' so in order for that to happen you must use some sort of measure/unit size ?
-Mic
#8829 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/14 16:04:12
It's a 1:1 mapping. 1 unit inside of a model file is 1 grid unit. That doesn't relate to the real world, it's just how it's mapped within the editor. I use the same scale as Quake which, internally, is 1 unit is 1 grid unit.
Willem ...
#8830 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/14 16:07:08
Ahhh ... now it makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
-Mic
It'sa Perception Thing
#8831 posted by AEnoch [174.124.31.213] on 2009/07/14 17:16:56
8 units = 1 foot doesn't literally translate. The player is 56 units which would equal 7 feet, and can jump 32 units which would be 4 feet.
Even then if you create a room 80 X 80 and spawn in it, it doesn't 'feel' like a 10' x 10' room.
So Probably About 10 Units Per Foot Then :P
#8832 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.52.237] on 2009/07/14 17:22:08
Hmm
#8833 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/07/14 17:28:00
Indeed, if you're asking what I think you are then the answer is 'it's irrelevant'.
The units in Quake don't really translate that well into 'real' units of measurement. It's just an arbitary unit. What you seem to want to know is standard sizes, in which case;
128 units is standard for a medium/small corridor width. It's also the standard height of a floor/storey (ie, there'll be 128 units from floor to ceiling).
64 units is a thin corridor or a large crate.
16 units is the height of a step.
Of course, a lot of these, such as floor height/corridor width can be expanded/contracted depending on the size of room wanted, I'd suggest finding the source files for some maps and having a look at the scale of them in editor (I know Vondur releases all of his, as do various other mappers...)
Look At Textures
#8834 posted by AEnoch [174.124.31.213] on 2009/07/14 17:51:05
Also you can determine in game by some of the textures used the size of a room since most textures are either 64 or 128, unless they were scaled.
AEnoch ...
#8835 posted by micpringle [92.41.231.105] on 2009/07/14 18:36:19
I think in terms of approximation, 1 foot equalling 8 units is about right.
7ft for the player doesn't sound to outlandish. Dolph Lundgren stands about 6ft 6in and I would have expected the player to be about the same physique as him.
And I would also expect someone of this physique to be able to jump about 4 feet.
-Mic
SketchUp Converter ...
#8836 posted by micpringle [92.41.231.105] on 2009/07/14 18:59:09
The reason I'm asking for this is because I'm currently working on an .skp (Google SketchUp) -> .map converter, but the maps when loaded after conversion are too small because SU works in inches & feet and 1 foot doesn't map to 1 Quake unit. Therefore I need some sort of scale to work with.
-Mic
Re: Willem + Looping
#8837 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/14 20:12:45
If you jump off an unsealed level and loop a few times, you can still land on the level itself and have proper collision
this actually isn't the case. if you loop around, the geometry is drawn as if you had looped, but everything is non solid and monsters cannot attack you, even though they look as if they are able to.
any geometry that goes beyond the boundary though, will be solid to you when you loop over. but it won't be visible.
it's like the client is running on floats but the server is running with doubles.
Re Units
#8838 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/14 20:14:13
maybe this is for hl/hl2, but i believe they do 1 unit = 1 inch which works out good for like stair heights and such, but i think the quake player is shorter than the hl2 player.
Quake Guy
#8839 posted by spy [92.46.26.41] on 2009/07/14 20:20:17
even shrter than the q2 guy
#8840 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/14 20:24:46
necros
Oh yeah? Weird, I could swear I remember doing that but maybe I never actually tried it.
#8841 posted by metlslime [64.175.155.252] on 2009/07/14 23:39:21
it's like the client is running on floats but the server is running with doubles.
Literally, the server is using floats and the nework protocol sends them as 16-bit fixed-point numbers, with 13 bits for the integer part, and 3 bits for the fractional part (so the smallest representable difference is 1/8 of a unit, and the largest possible value is 4095.875) The client converts them back into floats, but of course you've already lost the extra range at that point.
Also:
#8842 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/15 00:25:28
you can see this 1/8 thing if you stand on a slope (like the beginning of e1m1) and zoom in on the wall nearby. As you slowly slide, your view ratchets forwards and downwards in noticable increments.
When working on protocol 666, i tried various techniques to add range to the coordinate system without increasing packet size. They were all very complicated and still made packets bigger. The simplest is just to always send floats, but this makes packets much bigger and I didn't want to pollute the protocol that way (as it is now, the packet sizes are about the same as 15 until you need to send special data like alpha, 2-byte modelindex, etc.)
I still have plans to support this in the future, I just wanted to get a functional version out and that requires locking down the feature set at some point.
The packet size limit is the toughest part, and there's not much I can do about it (but I should add a cvar so you can attempt larger packets on a LAN, which might have higher MTU than the internet at large.)
#8843 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/15 00:36:12
angles are another thing where the precision is incredibly low.
the hanging corpses that slowly rotate in quoth are animated in the mdl because the engine's angles round to like, nearest 5/360th instead of nearest 1/360th degree. when you start doing rotating brushes, and the brushes are large (or are placed far from the origin) it can get incredibly ugly with this gigantic gaps between rotations.
it would be nice to beef up whatever handles angles if possible.
Necros:
#8844 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/15 00:57:13
protocol 666 does have high precision client angles (so aiming your gun is accurate) but not on rotations for entities.
I noticed the problem with hanging corpses but I thought the rotation was a model animation (so they could be static ents) rather than entity rotation. I guess that's a good feature to add to the next protocol.
Though, It seems like something that mappers/modders should avoid relying on, otherwise you'll have the huge ugly bmodel rotations you talk about happening in all other stock engines. I had this problem with a rotate train in rubicon2 and the fix was to spawn it near the world origin.
Monster Action Measures
#8845 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/15 04:06:35
maximum distance a player can jump without falling into water, lava, or traps
225 units
maximum distance a player can jump straight up and get up to another object:
42.5 units
maximum distance a player can fall and not be injured:
275 units
minimum gap in the floor spacing, slatted bridge or floating squares of lava:
35 units
maximum height that a step can be before a player must jump:
17 units
Units ?
#8846 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/15 07:28:21
What is a unit ?
I always have trouble making lifts go the right distance, most of it I guess and then adjust.
When you speak of units, how do they relate to the grid in Worldcraft ?
#8847 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.20.199] on 2009/07/15 09:53:33
(makes "shoot myself in the head signal")
FFS, its just been repeatedly explained not a couple of posts previously (like yesterday)
1:1, one grid unit = 1 unit, one 1:1-texture-pixel
More On Real World Unit Size ...
#8848 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/15 12:46:52
After researching this more, I have come across the Quake Editing Primer at ...
http://gamers.org/dEngine/quake/QD...
... which suggests 1 Quake unit is about 3cm or 1 foot is approx 10 Quake units.
This seems to make more sense now, especially with what others posters have suggested above.
The only thing that still puzzles me is the standard height of a step being 16 units. At 8 units equalling 1 foot, 16 units or 2 foot is far to high I feel, and although 1.6 foot (using 10 units per foot) is getting nearer the mark, I feel this is still too high.
5 ft 6 for the player size, and an 80 x 80 room equalling 8ft x 8ft rather than 10ft by 10ft perhaps seems more reasonable.
What do you guys think ?
-Mic
More ...
#8849 posted by micpringle [213.120.90.59] on 2009/07/15 12:48:59
It also suggests that vertical and horizontal scales are different ...
Vertically : 1 unit = 3cm, 10 units = 1 ft
Horizontally: 1 unit = 2cm, 16 units = 1 ft
-Mic
Don't Take It Too Seriously
#8850 posted by negke [88.70.71.150] on 2009/07/15 13:21:07
I always had the impression 64 units roughly corresponded to 1 meter. Then 16 unit steps would be about 20-25cm which kind of makes sense for the world. The scale for entities is totally different, though.
In the end, it's no use translating RL scale to Quake units - the dimensions of the environment isn't determined by logic, just by the textures.
<- Face It
#8851 posted by generic [67.233.222.147] on 2009/07/15 14:10:09
The scale in Quake is shot: a 16 unit step/stair just doesn't look right with a player model next to it and larger monsters look ridiculously small when viewed from above. Go with what feels right and don't get too caught up in the unit conversions.
#8852 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/15 14:57:05
" the dimensions of the environment isn't determined by logic, just by the textures."
^^ This. Just work with it until it feels right.
Like I Said
#8853 posted by AEnoch [174.124.31.213] on 2009/07/15 17:24:52
It's a matter of perception. Do what looks/feels right, and adjust from there.
It Is Relative....
#8854 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/07/15 17:29:53
... to players size, that is 16 units tall if I remember well :)
To Add Just A Bit More...
#8855 posted by pjw [68.113.151.219] on 2009/07/15 20:02:26
When you're dealing with dimensions/proportions in a game engine, you're almost always going to have problems if you try to rely on exact conversion numbers and translation of stuff directly from the Real World.
In FP games in particular, the camera height and FOV are going to differ at least a bit (and often significantly) from what you're used to seeing in real life, so some things will feel right and some won't.
And then there's the problem of stuff being on a small flat screen, rather than actually being in front of you...
Btw
#8856 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/17 04:27:58
there is a limit after all to how far out you can build. it appears to be 8192 (doubles?) where, anything after that just doesn't draw.
Necros:
#8857 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/07/17 05:58:55
Hmm, I guess there are probably some client functions that assume the original bounds. For example:
- the far clipping plane
- the skybox size
- the trace vector used to light entities based on floor lighting (was 2000 units in original quake, now 8192 in fitzquake)
#8858 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/23 08:08:28
you guys ever go back and play some of your really old stuff?
i was playing nesp09 and i discovered my lame sense of humour hasn't changed at all.
#8859 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/23 08:10:31
i guess what i was really driving at was: do you enjoy your own maps after sufficient time has passed that some or most of it is almost like new?
#8860 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/23 10:42:53
I play mines from time to time just to remenbered how noob I was and still :)
Yes I like to play then -:) and I love even more to play your maps necros ;)
ne_lend is my favorit map ever, i love the use of the nails in the map, very fast and fun. I played this map many many times... doesn´t look Quoth at all because is real fast.
#8861 posted by negke [88.70.80.53] on 2009/07/23 11:01:12
Like when you told me it wasn't possible to use the second (light brown) Polyp skin in Quoth while it actually is? Where we could have been now...
#8862 posted by negke [88.70.80.53] on 2009/07/23 11:07:02
I've replayed my speedmaps recently. Some are better than I thought, and most are much worse. Pretty much all of them are ridiclously hard - 60 monsters in such small maps, what was I thinking). And the humor in some of them is beyond lame, yeah.
The most obvious thing going on when playing one's old maps is realizing their shortcomings, like Trinca said, and how one would build it differently.
#8863 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/23 11:24:46
I also think that the fact that you guys play others games help a lot in inspiration!
In my case i dont play others games because of my very limited time :\ i wish i had more time to play others games and map more :\
But in the other hand i´m very glad of my life, i love my kids and my wife ;)
I will keep mapping for Quake but this year and next will be hard for me to release anything, only speedmaps... full map i dont have the time and the will.
Rather
#8864 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/24 19:43:54
joyfully playing my own map again then seeing it quoted by someone who HAS to do the job.
WC/Hammer
#8865 posted by AEnoch [174.124.0.177] on 2009/07/25 09:39:11
Has anyone gotten Wordcraft/Hammer to run well on Linux?
It's Difficult Enough
#8866 posted by ijed [190.20.82.120] on 2009/07/25 16:23:14
Getting it to run on windows - no joke.
It's got a very nice interface but if you're looking for editors I'd suggest going for another one, maybe QuArK. Which is multiplatform AFAIK.
#8867 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.86] on 2009/07/25 16:59:26
It is not and it is an editor that makes it too easy to screw up (and likes to do that by itself just to annoy you).
WC
#8868 posted by AEnoch [174.124.1.104] on 2009/07/25 18:28:31
I've had no problems with it on windows. I know Radiant works on Linux but I've been using WC for years and it's what I'm comfortable with.
I have Quark but it runs slower than WC. I'm just wondering as I'm looking to switch to linux.
Fair Enough
#8869 posted by ijed [190.20.70.138] on 2009/07/26 15:39:56
I'm still looking for a solution to the 'no 3d selection' issue - There are dll's that can be used but they screw up the texture rendering.
#8870 posted by gb [89.27.239.195] on 2009/07/26 21:00:15
Radiant and Quest run natively under Linux.
Several others run under wine (pretty well actually), if that floats your boat.
I'll learn Radiant soon anyway.
I'm A Few Posts Late But
#8871 posted by Drew [76.75.67.202] on 2009/07/27 04:57:27
I fucking love replaying 90% of my old speed maps. I never get tired of them, and I don't look at them critically (probably because I haven't improved much, if at all).
Argh, This Is Taking On JPLian Dimensions
#8872 posted by negke [88.70.57.11] on 2009/07/27 10:20:06
Full: 75.01%, Elapsed:307h 39m, Left:482h 54m, Total:790h 33m, 38%
Hm
#8873 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.246] on 2009/07/27 10:33:14
Is it really worth the full vis? After all the map is very open.
I Think It Is
#8874 posted by negke [88.70.57.11] on 2009/07/27 10:39:58
It'll still have an extremly high polycount, but even if the fullvis can only lower it slightly, it'll be worth it. 2000 is better than 4000.
#8875 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/27 13:38:20
your computer will burn :|
make a backup of everything NOWWWWWW
#8876 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/27 13:38:35
I wonder what the magic breaking point is for VIS. My latest map has gotten larger and is still VIS'ing in under 5 minutes. It has one huge room in it with lots of detail but even that doesn't seem to daunt VIS...
#8877 posted by negke [88.70.51.244] on 2009/07/27 14:08:36
It scales up exponentially. A single room (how huge is huge in Quake terms) might work, but if most or all geometry is inside a single volume like in a space map, it creates a multitude of portals. There's one for every little edge and slope and all they also affect each other.
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images...
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images...
Note the portal jungle in the upper half.
#8878 posted by gb [89.27.239.117] on 2009/07/27 21:57:58
CDA seems near the magic breaking point, if anything.
That suggests if your map is one large sandbox with all structures open to it, and some triangle mesh etc perhaps, you might have good chances.
Negke
#8879 posted by gb [89.27.239.117] on 2009/07/27 22:01:11
wow, just saw those numbers. You love pain, right.
Uhm
#8880 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/28 02:56:24
get the urge to leave...
Just Give It A Few Years
#8881 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/07/28 04:07:04
Multithreaded VIS on 8-core Nehalems will make this problem pretty much go away. Remember, id had to use the most badass Alpha hardware available in '96 to compile their Quake maps.
or you know, detail brushes.
#8882 posted by gb [89.27.247.158] on 2009/07/28 19:34:30
or use Doom 3, no more vis.
#8883 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/28 20:51:18
yeah, whatever you say about the lighting, the visibility system in doom3 is badass.
Understanding VIS
#8884 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/07/29 07:22:53
What system resources uses Vis anyway ?
Does it help to have lots of memory and a good processor or could you just as well run it on a Pentium 1 from the old Quake days ?
VIS
#8885 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/07/29 08:14:16
VIS process needs memory and a fast processor to limit its runtime.
It is based onto a recursive algorithm (a kind of "turtle" algorithm)... the faster the CPU will be, the less consuming the VIS runtime will be.. Having GBs of RAM will not help, as I don't think the process needs it... though...
But in anyway, VIS process is the evil one in the Quake map building flow :(
#8886 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 13:51:41
Also, VIS benefits greatly from multithreading since each leaf can be processed independently of each other (which is how id ran theirs on their Alpha machines). I've enabled this in my Mac version of the tool but I don't think any Windows versions exist like that.
Willem
#8887 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/07/29 14:12:57
I'm not exactly sure bout the implementation, but it seems it could be faster with multi core processor indeed.
I already discussed this topic with aguirRe, and he told me that ID indeed had their first VIS process running onto multicore Unix machine, but it has never been ported to Windows in this way: Window VIS tools are single CPU only, and AFAIK.. unless somebody has a specific tool on his own ;)
#8888 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 14:15:54
The code is in there - it's just #ifdef'd out. All a Windows programmer would have to do is define "_alpha" (or whatever the symbol) is in preprocessor symbols of their compiler and fix the errors that spit out. It was really pretty simple on Mac.
I've not done much multithreading on Windows so I can't say how closely the structures and such relate to what id wrote on their Unix machine but it can't be more than a few hours of hunting around some documentation to find equivalents.
So Willem...
#8889 posted by negke [88.70.227.212] on 2009/07/29 15:14:00
...care to do me a little favor?
#8890 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 15:17:07
Haha ... I might take a stab at it. Which VIS do people use? Point me at some source code and I'll take a crack at it this weekend but no promises...
BJP's Of Course
#8891 posted by negke [88.70.227.212] on 2009/07/29 15:20:45
I didn't mean compiling the vis tool, though!
#8892 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/07/29 15:21:08
negke already in 90%
Not Quite
#8893 posted by negke [88.70.227.212] on 2009/07/29 15:25:08
Full: 76.65%, Elapsed:359h 37m, Left:885h 2m, Total:1244h 39m, 28%
#8894 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 15:28:09
negke
Oh, well, the best solution long term would be to get a Windows version with multithreading working. I could run it for you, yes, but that's painful. :P
To be clear, this?
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/vis...
Yep
#8895 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/29 15:29:26
Willem
#8896 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/07/29 17:01:14
somebody provided be a vis tool that is supposed to run 40% faster than Id's original one... but I never tested it as I did not trust the guy that much: anyone who wants to benchmark it can send me an email: I'll provide the stuf.... at your own risk :P
Forgot To Mention...
#8897 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/07/29 17:02:14
... I also have the source...
#8898 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 17:07:35
Can someone hook me up with a .PRT and a matching .BSP file so I can run some VIS debugging?
PRT Files...
#8899 posted by Mandel [192.36.1.252] on 2009/07/29 17:16:54
...you can generate them yourself from the BSP. Use for example BspInfo (delivered with aguirRe's visbjp suite) and the -prt flag.
#8900 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 17:24:38
Ha! So you can, awesome. Thanks!
Go Willem!
#8901 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/29 18:18:10
OK, This Might Work...
#8902 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 18:42:06
...but it comes with zero assurances of it actually working or not corrupting data. :P
I took some of my lunch hour today to see if this could be done quickly.
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1614...
That should be a multi-threaded version of BJP VIS. When you run it, you'll see some additional text appear like:
"Using X threads."
The X will be however many cores/processors you have in your machine.
The percentage and progres stuff is all kinds of messed up and I don't have time to fix it today - lunch time is over! But I'll take a look at that in the future once the basics are nailed down.
Anyway, try it, run some side by side timings and let me know if I'm crazy or if this actually works.
The best way to see it work is to start up your Task Manager and look at the processor activity. All of your cores/processors should be pegged at 100% when this is running.
Thanks!
#8903 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/29 19:53:29
swapping to your vis for all my vising needs. i'm seeing 100% cpu usage, so it appears to be working fine. i'll let you know if anything weird happens.
you are currently on my list of people made of awesomeness for this, btw. ^_^
damn, i wish i had a quad core though. :(
#8904 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 19:56:29
The part that scares me is if the map will load into Quake when it's done. That's something I can't test here. :) Let me know, plz!
Willem
#8905 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/07/29 20:59:47
Despite it may load, it also can generates HOMs and leaks.... wait and see :P
#8906 posted by negke [88.70.48.60] on 2009/07/29 21:45:34
I don't see why it shouldn't load into Quake. After all, all you changed was the resource management. The actual vis calculation and state file handling remains untouched.
I'm running a test at the moment. One hour of willemvis vs one hour of regular (single-threaded) vis. The time estimations would help here, but whatever. No idea if there's much of a gain. I don't have a real multicore machine, just one of those p4-hyperthreading dudes (I was always suspicious about this being a possible bottleneck).
#8907 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 21:49:59
How many threads does it say you're using? If it's more than 1, you should see SOME improvement.
OK, I Think I Fixed The Time Estimates And Percentages...
#8908 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 22:01:31
I also renamed the EXE for easier use.
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1614...
Give that a shot if you want the time estimates to be useful.
Will Test This For Future Builds
#8909 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/29 22:05:05
#8910 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/07/29 22:51:16
So I guess now, whoever has the most cores/processors on their machine needs to become a VIS mule for the group. :P
#8911 posted by negke [88.70.48.60] on 2009/07/29 23:03:43
Yes, there's definitely some improvement (with 2 threads) - I'd say it's at least 40% faster. I was so dumb as to accidentally close the window just now, so I can't tell the exact difference, unfortunately. But still, your version is useful for running at night when there're no other programs running beside vis. Thanks for offerning your lunch break.
Uh
#8912 posted by negke [88.70.48.60] on 2009/07/29 23:05:43
offering the sacrificing
#8913 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/07/30 00:21:39
well, i've been using it all day with fast vising. it is faster, but it's hard to tell just how much without doing a proper full vis.
i have a second map that's in the final stage so i'll do a couple of test runs of full -level 4 vising on it, one with and one without multithreading for a proper comparison, but assuming there isn't a fundamental difference in what vis is doing in -fast vs without -fast, i'd say it's creating .bsp files that are perfectly fine. :)
Awfull
#8914 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/07/30 00:29:16
how you managed to improve this blocking up tool, Willem!
If I count all vis time I made since I started mapping in '97 I could have learned C+ and have dived into it... too late I guess.
#8915 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/30 00:41:50
"i'd say it's creating .bsp files that are perfectly fine. "
Sweet! i guess it's good to go then.
Er......
#8916 posted by RickyT23 [86.0.112.95] on 2009/07/30 01:00:18
link is 404?
#8917 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/30 01:18:04
Sorry, the file moved. I've made it permanent here:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Thanks Willem
#8918 posted by Mechtech [24.211.157.11] on 2009/07/30 02:41:45
2 Core AMD works!!!
Test map 60 sec vis down to about 36 sec.
Base vis is crazy fast
Looks Good
#8919 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/07/31 07:54:16
It looks like the WVis times are rounded to the nearest minute?
This was on a Core2Duo E6850 (3 GHz).
Original VIS run:
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
File: c:\quake\id1\maps\wish16.bsp
2929 portalleafs
8356 numportals
State file out of date, will be overwritten
testlevel = 4
ambient sky disabled
average leafs visible: 192
max leafs visible: 646 near (-608 352 592)
c_chains: 39836161
visdatasize: 219 kb compressed from 1049 kb
Elapsed time : 6:52
WVis run:
---- WVis 2.31 ----
Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Multithreading enabled by Willem
File: c:\quake\id1\maps\wish16.bsp
2929 portalleafs
8356 numportals
State file out of date, will be overwritten
testlevel = 4
ambient sky disabled
Using 2 threads.
average leafs visible: 192
max leafs visible: 646 near (-608 352 592)
c_chains: 39880904
visdatasize: 219 kb compressed from 1049 kb
Elapsed time : 3:00
I just did this, so I haven't actually looked at the map in the game. If I see any problems I'll post them.
The only difference in the log is the c_chains (no idea if that's important). I ran the full BSP, Light, Vis each time with no change to the actual .map file
C_chain
#8920 posted by JPL [213.30.139.243] on 2009/07/31 08:24:06
I guess this is the recursive linkage made in between volumes. As in bsp process there's a volume expansion process that defines where are each faces / leafs, I think it is almost the same for vis process except the tools creates a chained list of volume in order to process them recursively (i.e from this volume, process the faces, and check what are the others visible volume not in the list, etc...) and determine which volumes (and then number of faces to render per volume) are visible from a given position.
This is how I understood the system in very "rough" way.. and maybe I'm wrong :P
#8921 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/07/31 11:21:30
Yeah, I'll check the rounding but I didn't really change anything there that I can think of. Hmm...
Wow !
#8922 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/08/02 08:22:09
Progress in Quake map building, after all these years ! Nice work !
Quick question about something else:
Does it really make a lot of difference if you make your curves just by cutting them with a circle, or if you use the vector manipulation to make them more or less the same size and triangles ? If anyone has some more info (on the web, maybe ?) about vector manipulation, please let me know.
Ah, Found It:
#8923 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/02 16:41:14
http://www.quaketerminus.com/hoste...
Learn those ratios by heart, use them. The ratio used in the above tut is 0:2 2:4 4:2 2:0 if that makes any sense. There are other possible workable ratios but that one's always worked for me.
As far as constructing said curves, the 2-point clipper will probably give you less headache (and fewer invalid brushes) than trying to vertex manip everything into place.
Black Monsters
#8924 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/02 18:47:14
I remember someone else having a problem awhile back with this ... I have some spots in my level where creatures turn black despite the floor and the walls around them being lit perfectly fine. Is there an easy workaround for this? I'm running FitzQuake...
Well
#8925 posted by ijed [190.20.126.198] on 2009/08/02 18:56:11
If they're passing over a sky brush then they'll always appear black unless the sky brush has a normal, solid brush inside it.
If they're appearing black when passing over normal lit floor then there's an issue with the origin of the monster.
They take no reference from the walls.
#8926 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/02 19:39:33
But what can I do as a mapper? Just rework the brushes in the area until the engine stops having an issue?
Can You Upload A Screenshot?
#8927 posted by ijed [190.20.126.198] on 2009/08/02 20:37:18
Maybe it's a known issue.
#8928 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/02 20:58:49
The screenshot would just be an enforcer standing a well lit ledge but he's black. If he moves to either side a little bit, he lights up. I guess I'll just play with it. :)
Fair Enough
#8929 posted by ijed [190.20.126.198] on 2009/08/02 22:26:15
Doesn't sound like any issue I know about.
Tiny Misalignments Maybe
#8930 posted by ijed [190.20.126.198] on 2009/08/02 22:26:36
#8931 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/02 22:35:21
the problem i believe you're remembering was mine where i had torches and stuff fulldark even though the ground under them was nearly fullbright (or overbright even).
i think i understand what causes it. i suspect it has to do with FQ's lighting interpolation, but only on maps that are unsealed.
the problem usually happens in corners or along walls, never in the middle of a room.
i believe this was because the sides that made up the bottom of the wall brush and the side of the floor brush were fulldark and the interpolation was getting messed up.
i've found that sealing maps so that those faces are removed tends to fix it.
if you have an enforcer on a ledge, is it possible there are faces in the area that are messing up the interpolation?
from what i recall of how metl explained it to me, FQ doesn't just look at the floor directly beneath the model to light it.
#8932 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/03 00:24:55
The map is definitely sealed but there might be some dark polygons in the area. I'll take a closer look...
Curves
#8933 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/08/03 08:17:13
Thanks a lot for that link, Grahf !
#8934 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/08/03 22:32:22
from what i recall of how metl explained it to me, FQ doesn't just look at the floor directly beneath the model to light it.
I haven't actually figured out this bug yet, but the fitzquake interpolation should still be looking just at the same floor polygon as glquake. The difference is that when you trace a line down and it hits between lightmap samples, glquake picks the nearest one and fitzquake blends between all four.
Again, since i haven't figured out this bug, i can't say in what way fitzquake is doing it wrong.
More Curves
#8935 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/05 03:12:15
No prob Ron, I'm welcome to pass the info along. Thank CZG actually, he wrote it.
Actually, it's worth mentioning that the tutorial I linked to in #8923 was written specifically for Worldcraft. The more advanced methods, of bending a hollowed pipe, simply do not work in editors such as Radiant. I beat my head against a wall for a while until Speedy told me the solution: the pipe itself can only be 8-sided, but you can bend it around a 12-sided curve. So there you have it, in case anyone was wondering.
#8936 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2009/08/05 10:43:25
oh fuck, got a map with 400 brushes but is stucking my mapping :\
Isn’t giving me any inspiration at all :\ in some way i want to delete the dawn bastard but then I feel petty for all the work I’ve lost
But guess I will have to let this baby died and start a new one!
I´m want to start a new map like tchak but the size make me be afraid of never finish it... :\
Curves
#8937 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/07 00:07:00
page was inspirating me to a new map!
http://members.home.nl/gimli/quake...
MadFox = Dr.Seuss
#8938 posted by meTch [64.148.36.28] on 2009/08/07 00:26:05
????
????
#8939 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/07 03:16:30
not sure, but does it metch:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/dummi...
Forget It
#8940 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/10 04:05:53
or post your hat.
Im Sorry
#8941 posted by meTch [64.148.36.28] on 2009/08/10 05:35:42
im not comprehending what i think im supposed to :S
i think my brain has gone to warp stage
Summary
#8942 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/10 16:08:51
That's nothing.
In my occasion I never know what to think
when adding a post and the toppic grows
dead for weeks.
Smd
#8943 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/10 23:49:25
someone needs a model animation but has only the smd format.
It seems something to do with the Team Source SDK Model Source File.
I can only use 3DS or DXF files but he tells me the file in Milkshape or Max3d will only transport to these extentions without bones.
As I need to animate them it's usefull to keep the bone structure.
Is there a solution to this convert error?
#8944 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/11 00:06:13
it's been a long long time since i was converting hl2 format models...
i believe there's a 3dsmax plugin that imports SMD files directly.
http://www.chaosincarnate.net/cann...
get mdldecompiler here.
this lets you decompile the mdl file into all the seperate pieces to get the smd, which, afaik, is just the mesh with vertex weighting.
then go here:
http://www.wunderboy.org/sourceapp...
and pick up the 3dsmax smd importer to directly import the mesh into 3dsmax. this should preserve vertex weighting.
Thanks
#8945 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/11 04:25:58
for the links, necros!
I didn't realize it were hl2 models as I only came to HalfLife1.
I earlier overcame to the stunning effect when importing an enforcer it meshed up the bullit inside its gun, so I didn't understand were my extra triangle was left after exporting.
I only have 3D Studio MAX R3.
I hope the converters can handle this old version.
I could install Milkshape to get the bones preserved as modelling can get messed up when I start adding them myself.
#8946 posted by negke [88.70.55.187] on 2009/08/12 20:26:46
Ninety-two percent.
Oh, woes! Will you ever stop?
Space maps suck to VIS.
And
#8947 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/08/12 20:35:10
You're into the slowest part of the process.
Really looking forward to this map, and won't be the only one - if its any consolation.
Heh
#8948 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/12 22:50:50
that map i posted about a couple of weeks ago... estimating 1351 hours, and that's *with* willem's multicore fix. -_-
i suspect i will have to rework it. :P
Compiling Is Fun! Honest...
#8949 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/13 08:06:02
TreeQBSP v2.05 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Mac port by Willem
Input file: leamondetest1.map
Output file: leamondetest1.bsp
*** WARNING 03: Line 45756: Brush with duplicate plane
[a bunch of duplicate plane errors removed]
Title: "Lea Monde"
31430 faces
5229 brushes
1023 entities
117 unique texnames
3703 texinfo
*** ERROR 37: Failure seeking to 1694052352 in file rt_gnosis_q1.wad
29 warnings
Elapsed time : 0:01
Peak memory used : 5.1 MB
So as you can see, qbsp is spitting out this bizarre error as it is loading my .wad files. I have 4 wad files I want to use, which are all in the same directory as qbsp. My wadfiles are fine, that is, they loaded with no errors into a wad editor. The above "failure seeking" error is generated when only one or two of my wads is specified in worldspawn. The number it fails to seek to varies with the number and order of wads listed in the worldspawn's "wad" key; sometimes it has been negative, but it is not random - for any given order and number of wads, the number spit out will be the same. If all four wads are listed, I get this:
qbsp(3538) malloc: *** vm_allocate(size=2690650112) failed (error code=3)
qbsp(3538) malloc: *** error: can't allocate region
qbsp(3538) malloc: *** set a breakpoint in szone_error to debug
If I am reading that vm_allocate() right, it is trying to allocate 2.6 gigabytes of memory, which I don't have. My machine has 1.5GB of physical RAM, and I got this error with 1.1GB available. I'd have thought that OS X's virtual memory management would have taken up the slack, but apparently not. Also, I was unable to reproduce the out of memory error just now, which confuses me further, but reinforces my intuition that it's a cover for something else going on. The failure seeking error is persistent however.
Oh, and the weirdest part is that if I remove the "wad" key from worldspawn entirely, the errors go away and the qbsp finishes. But I don't think it's going to look very pretty without textures. The map itself is pretty big, ~5200 brushes, but that ought not to matter because I'm getting these errors before the meat of the qbsp process even starts.
Lastly, if I ever do get this thing compiled, it has a painful lack of visblocking. You guys are scaring me.
#8950 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/13 08:53:16
this is sort of a long shot, but it's all i can think of.
looking at the bsp info above, 117 unique texnames meaning 117 unique textures. this is a lot and i know there's a limit to how many textures can be stored (or is it a limit on how much memory can be used in textures?)
and the limit may only been in the engine itself, not the compiler, it's just that when you said that removing the wad key (and hence not loading any textures) makes the problem go away is what made me think of it.
try making a test map and replacing most (or all?) of the textures with a single one and see if that does anything...
#8951 posted by negke [88.70.60.211] on 2009/08/13 09:37:43
The number of textures isn't the problem here (there have been maps with twice as many). There seems to be something wrong with the WADs, some that your editor doesn't mind but QBSP chokes on. Try merging them in TexMex or at least save each of them to a new filename in case there're some faulty bits somewhere.
#8952 posted by negke [88.70.60.211] on 2009/08/13 09:46:53
ijed: Just as any new map is appreciated and looked forward to. Keeping you informed about the process is actually a double-edged affair, since it kind of renders me as a fool for going through such a hassle for so little gain, both in terms of VIS results and the quality of the map - which is not to say it sucks, but it got out of proportion some 500 hours ago. :D
necros: Keep in mind the time esimations don't stay constant throughout the whole process. If it says 1300 hours in the beginning, you can bet it'll go up dramatically at a later point and especially towards the end. Better add a digit.
#8953 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/13 10:21:58
yep. i'm currently running a test with vis -level 1.
if that's enough to keep things smooth, i can stand not having super accurate vis calculations.
there's something wierd though, because i seem to be getting strange behaviour with the timer.
elapsed time is incorrect saying 34 minutes when it has been running for over 2 hours...
the estimate at level 1 is only 3 hours, but if the timer isn't working, than likely nothing it's outputting is correct... i'll see what it's like tomorow, i suppose...
Sure
#8954 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/08/13 15:59:51
But this is a big negke space map.
Timer
#8955 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/13 17:18:00
maybe the elapsed time readout is based on actual cpu tics used for vis, not real-world elapsed time?
#8956 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/13 19:05:21
i doubt it because that doesn't really make any sense for aguire to code it that way. besides, i've used his vis for lots of maps and never had anything weird like that happen.
trying again with -level 2 and it seems to be working properly now.
Blah, Update
#8957 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/13 21:31:30
I put one texture on all brushes in the map, "wad" = "knave.wad" in worldspawn, and still this:
*** ERROR 37: Failure seeking to 471762432 in file knave.wad
I imported the whole map into a new file, and still the same. I even tried on a completely different map. If there are no wadfiles in worldspawn, it will compile. If there are valid wadfiles specified, qbsp will fail. Either there is something really fucked on my end, or there is a problem with the Mac port. Sorry to bother you all, I'm gonna go bawww at Willem now.
#8958 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/13 21:38:49
If that WAD file is loading into your editor correctly then there's no reason it shouldn't work in QBSP. Weird.
Grahf
#8959 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/08/13 21:43:09
Which editor are you using ?
I'm Not Sure The Editor Used Is Directly Relevant, But
#8960 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/13 23:32:27
it's gtkradiant 1.4 on mac os x 10.4. I convert the map file to q1 format with sleepy's java map converter. I would be using Willem's excellent Toetag, but it rendered my stupidly big map at molasses speeds on this old hardware.
In qbsp's source code, warnerr.h, I see that there is an "errSeekFailure" which is obviously what I'm getting. When and where would this be called?
I've tried several wads, most straight from quaddicted and a few I've assembled myself, all giving the same error.
Actually, I just had the horrifying thought that it could be failing to seek because my hard drive is dying. Yikes. Though I haven't noticed any other similar problems.
#8961 posted by negke [88.70.49.211] on 2009/08/14 08:58:24
Oh, I didn't realize it was a Mac port. In this case you, can put all the blame on Willum. Is there any other compatible QBSP you could try, perhaps with a Windows emulator? Doesn't MacRadiant save to .map or why do you have to use that converter?
Grahf
#8962 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/08/14 09:42:51
Indeed, the editor is not relevant, however for some reason, sometimes during .map generation, it can generate weird stuff.... anyway, the fact it is a Mac porting is certainely the issue.
You may should try with TxQBSP instead, or move to a PC... :(
#8963 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/14 14:07:12
The fact that it's a Mac port should actually have very little to do with it. I use that version of it all the time and it works fine for me. I can't imagine what the issue is here...
Definitely try another version of QBSP and see what happens. If it's my fault, that's fine, I'll fix it - but I'm having a hard time buying it at this point in time. :P
Mac-hate Is Digital Racism
#8964 posted by negke [88.70.251.232] on 2009/08/14 14:21:51
#8965 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/14 14:51:29
Grahf
Email me the MAP file and the WAD you're using (preferably something reasonably small) and I'll try compiling it myself. Should be easy to track down what's going on...
Upgrading Is Digital Genocide
#8966 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/08/14 15:35:10
#8967 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/15 12:22:41
Ahh OK, grahf has a PowerPC machine. I don't believe these tools are set up for big/little endian swapping. I believe the tools are currently Intel only.
I'll put that on my task list. :)
Doh!
#8968 posted by grahf [74.127.72.91] on 2009/08/15 19:11:30
I had a feeling that might be the cause of my problems. Thanks for looking into it anyways.
#8969 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/15 21:13:10
I'm working on it. It might be easy and it might not be. I'll know more by the time the weekend is out. For now, you could compile in a Windows machine by using Parallels or something ... or just use a regular version of QBSP for now.
Some Basic Questions
#8970 posted by [78.104.4.5] on 2009/08/16 20:45:15
I have a door but the angles 135 and 315 don't seem to work. Am I stupid ????
And how can I make a trigger that makes another trigger operational?
Re 8970
#8971 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/16 21:05:47
1. not sure, can't say i recall having any problems with those angles.
try 134 and 314? could just be those specific angles or the door could be linking with others. check that each door's bounding box isn't intersecting another.
2. short answer, you can't.
long answer, you can.
make an info_notnull but as a brush entity. (make it a trigger_once and rename classname to 'info_notnull'.
make a 'think' key and set it to InitTrigger.
make a 'nextthink' key and set it to '0.5'
make a 'use' key and set it to 'trigger_once' or 'trigger_multiple'
now set targetname.
set up any other relevant stuff like message or delay or whatever.
when you trigger this thing, it will turn into a normal trigger but will not do anything before.
Thanks For The Quick Reply
#8972 posted by rudl [78.104.4.5] on 2009/08/16 21:19:33
1. 134 and 314 don't seem to work properly either.
I uploaded a testmap where I have this problem:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
2. Thanks I will try that :)
#8973 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/16 23:21:22
try fudging it by giving the broken doors negative 'lip' values.
#8974 posted by rudl [78.104.4.5] on 2009/08/16 23:31:25
That seems to do the trick :)
#8975 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/17 01:34:06
you know what would be wild?
make a program that will load a bsp file that has had it's vis information calculated and somehow allow you to manually set which portals are visible from other portals.
Necros
#8976 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/08/17 17:47:04
make a program that will load a bsp file that has had it's vis information calculated and somehow allow you to manually set which portals are visible from other portals.
Pure nightmare !!
#8977 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/08/17 20:05:45
Or how about a program that would let you directly edit the light map? Could be useful for fixing those odd errors you get sometimes or just for creating some interesting effects.
#8978 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/17 20:35:20
not really directly editing, but it would be awesome if you could both assign a bitmap image as a light pattern on a spot light as well as be able to specify 'noise' on both sunlight, minlight and normal lights.
Editing The Light
#8979 posted by Preach [217.44.87.82] on 2009/08/17 21:54:45
Probably the best way to create a program for editing the lights would be a custom engine. Just add the ability to "paint" by applying a dynamic light to the scene which gets written to the lightmaps fully. Then add the ability to save those back into the bsp. Only problem is that you'd have no way of restoring those edits to the bsp next time you compiled. Unless you recorded a demo of yourself doing it...
<-
#8980 posted by negke [88.70.92.48] on 2009/08/17 23:42:27
I Love Posting This Link.
#8981 posted by grahf [64.255.180.50] on 2009/08/18 04:38:36
Whenever someone says, "wouldn't it be cool if quake had..." chances are decent that pOx's eUtils has done it.
http://quake.chaoticbox.com/
I quote from the readme:
Tyrlite+ contains support for OpenQuartz ( http://openquartz.sourceforge.net ) LIGHT noise extensions. These allow you to apply noise algorithms when lighting a level to break up common color-banding problems, or acheive more "organic" looking lightmaps. The following attributes have been added to the eUtils Quiver defs for all lights:
"Noise Level" (_noise) accepts a floating point value from 0-1.0 (0 is no noise). You can "overexpose" the noise with values greater than 1.0, but the effect is usually undesireable (values of 0.5 or less are best for subtle effects).
"Noise Type" (_noisetype) can be set to 0 (Random), 1 (Smooth), or 2 (Perlin).
"Noise Resolution" (_resolution) controls the size or scaling of the effect. Higher numbers make the end effect larger (lower detail).
"Perlin Noise Persistence" (_persistence) This controls the perlin noise decay per octave.
You can use the "-noise" switch from the commandline to add random noise to all lights, but note that you cannot currently use noise on Global lights (Sunlight or Minlight).
Too bad it doesn't do noise on sunlight, pretty sweet otherwise though. Presumably you could get the code straight from OpenQuartz, but their hasn't-been-updated-in-five-years website wasn't terribly helpful.
That's Cool
#8982 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/18 05:47:11
i guess you could rephrase my above post as 'wouldn't it be cool if someone haxored pox's stuff into aguirRe's utils? :P
Mac OS 9 & Mac OS X (PPC) Compatible
#8983 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.77] on 2009/08/18 08:34:34
wouldn't it be cool if it was cross-platform?
Hmm...
#8984 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/08/18 11:38:16
I thought all the id code handled byte swapping, could be mistaken though.
Autosaving
#8985 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/18 22:38:13
we've discussed this before, but i have no idea where it went...
i wanted to implement this for my next map, and i was thinking:
send console command save ne_autosave
and in a config file bind f8 "load ne_autosave"
f8, afaik, doesn't do anything and it's both close and seperate from f9.
opinions?
#8986 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/08/18 23:03:29
can you use stuffcmd to load the game as well as save it? that would be better. (i.e. when user hits "jump" or "shoot" while dead, instead of doing the normal thing, the quakec would trigger a load then.)
#8987 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/18 23:26:29
this is for quoth, so no qc modifications.
but yeah, i don't see why you couldn't do that.
in void() respawn:
if (coop)
{
// make a copy of the dead body for appearances sake
CopyToBodyQue (self);
// get the spawn parms as they were at level start
setspawnparms (self);
// respawn
PutClientInServer ();
}
else if (deathmatch)
{
// make a copy of the dead body for appearances sake
CopyToBodyQue (self);
// set default spawn parms
SetNewParms ();
// respawn
PutClientInServer ();
}
else
{ // restart the entire server
localcmd ("restart\n");
}
it would just be a matter of replacing the restart command at the bottom.
Need Someone With UnrealED3 (UT3)
#8988 posted by Jago [84.249.95.211] on 2009/08/19 23:03:23
I need someone with UnrealED3 (the UT3 version) installed to take a brief look over a map I have been slowly working on for a loooong time now to help me decide whether I should continue slowly building upon it or whether I should just put it out of it's misery.
Download it HERE.
Arrow
#8989 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/20 19:10:02
As I'm making a frogman model I'm confronted with a strange qc compile habbit.
I reconstruckted the model on the enforcer qc, this means I used the shoot section to evaluate its harpoon action.
As I compiled the arrow suddenly blasts to the sky.
I couldn't find a reason for it, so I changed the
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 16';
from the model_fire section into
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 -24';
and now the model shoots somehow left to the player, but not exact aiming its goal.
What I don't get is that they both seem to harm the player.
Also if I change the -24 a measure further the arrow shoots in the ground.
It seems impossible to aim it straight to the player.
Another strange habbit occurs on the model that's in the water.
It is the same subroutine I use for as the land model.
Only the land model shoots an arrow, the watermodel only shoots but there doesn't appear an arrow in water.
Does this mean the conditions for a model to spawn is different than on land?
#8990 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/20 19:17:48
have you called makevectors(self.angles) before using the v_ unit vectors?
Yes
#8991 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/20 19:58:47
as I thought this part was the positioning of the shooting angle of the model itself, it didn't make sense to me the arrow shoots straight to the sky.
void() harpi_fire =
{
local vector org;
self.effects = self.effects | EF_MUZZLEFLASH;
makevectors (self.angles);
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 -24';
Launchharpi(org, self.enemy.origin - self.origin);
};
#8992 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/20 20:04:58
ok, that bit looks fine, now you need to check if launchharpi is correct.
Well
#8993 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/20 20:11:38
It's the same as the enforcer, but I must admit it is not a usual qc.
It is a combination of two models, who will be going to be melted as a water and a land model.
So the problem might as well lay in another part, although both of the models use the same Launchharpi.
void(vector org, vector vec) Launchharpi =
{
local vector vec;
if (self.classname == "monster_enforcer")
sound (self, CHAN_WEAPON, "enforcer/enfire.wav", 1, ATTN_NORM);
vec = normalize(vec);
newmis = spawn();
newmis.owner = self;
newmis.movetype = MOVETYPE_FLY;
newmis.solid = SOLID_BBOX;
newmis.effects = EF_DIMLIGHT;
setmodel (newmis, "progs/pioen.mdl");
setsize (newmis, '0 0 0', '0 0 0');
setorigin (newmis, org);
newmis.velocity = vec * 600;
newmis.angles = vectoangles(newmis.velocity);
newmis.nextthink = time + 5;
newmis.think = SUB_Remove;
newmis.touch = harpi_Touch;
};
#8994 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/20 21:35:29
i see a potential problem here. you have a variable 'vec' being passed into the function, and you also have a local variable 'vec' being declared at the start.
remove the local variable and that may fix your problem.
Necros
#8995 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/20 22:23:44
I'm not so familiar with the stats although I'll believe you.
Remove the local variable, is that
//vec = normalize(vec);
#8996 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/20 22:25:34
No, this:
//local vector vec;
Then you'll be using the variable you passed in rather than the local one.
#8997 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/20 23:00:03
yeah, the normalize(vec) is actually very important. normalize makes whatever the vector passed in a unit vector.
that is to say, the vector is reduced from whatever it was so that it's total length is 1.
this is how you can then multiply vec by an arbitrary number to create consistent velocity (ie: projectile always travels at 600 units per second). if you didn't normalize, the velocity of the projectile would change in relation to how far apart you and the enemy are.
Thanks!
#8998 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/21 00:39:52
I included it in the qc, but I wondered. I always thought that the
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 -24';
positioned the point of shooting from the monster, where the last three numbers were the actual position of its gun.
With these coordinates I get a shooting frogman which shoots its arrow 24 units above its gun, but the arrow goes left above me.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/frogm...
#8999 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/21 02:28:14
org = self.origin + v_forward * 30 + v_right * 8.5 + '0 0 -24';
assuming makevectors has been run, the above line will set org to a position 30 units in front, 8.5 units to the right and -24 units up (all monsters are 24 units above the ground, so -24 will make it right on the floor).
the reason it's shooting nuts is because when you call launchharpi, you are calculating the trajectory with self.enemy.origin - self.origin but your spawn point is at org.
in order for it to work correctly, the function call should either be:
Launchharpi(org, self.enemy.origin - org);
or:
Launchharpi(self.origin, self.enemy.origin - self.origin);
Indeed!
#9000 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/21 02:46:32
It might as well be above my hat but it seems to work.
I just get a little confused by the -24 as it still shoots above the players head.
It reminds me at the moment I placed the new monster in game and it flew 24 units above the ground.
I decided to lower all frames. So it is this difference that shoots the arrow overhead. Can't think of a way to overcome this now.
9000!
#9001 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/21 02:50:54
It's Over 9000.
#9002 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/21 02:56:37
just take -24 off.
it's shooting up because you are doing:
self.enemy.origin - org
think of it this way:
self.origin = '0 0 0' (you)
self.enemy.origin = '128 0 0' (monster)
this would be both the monster and you being at the same height.
but now, you are calculating:
self.enemy.origin - org
let's forget about v_forward and v_right for now.
that makes org = '128 0 -24' because the math is: '128 0 0' + '0 0 -24' = '128 0 -24'.
so think of it like the enemy.origin is the gun which is -24, so it has to shoot up towards 0.
removing -24 from the vertical element will make the monster shoot straight horizontally.
remember shamblers, how their lightning goes downwards or droles shoot at the player's feet. the drole shooting at the player's feet was completely unintentional and was a by-product of the spawn point of the drole missile (which is above the origin of the monster, so it shoots downward at the player which is the opposite of what's happening to your monster).
Alternatively,
#9003 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/21 02:59:02
if you want the monster to shoot from it's feet, then change the trajectory vector.
instead of Launchharpi(org, self.enemy.origin - org);, do Launchharpi(org, (self.enemy.origin + '0 0 -24') - org); which will make the monster shoot at your feet too.
Right
#9004 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/22 02:12:59
Thanks for your clear explanation!
I understand now how this positioning works.
I just couldn't understand why the arrow kept shooting above the monster, although the cooordinates were right.
Then I realized when I imported the monster into Qmle it was 24 units above the ground.
So when I put these models back in game the arrow shoots right.
Now I need to know how I can lower the model 24 units and keep their original shooting point.
It sounds kinky, but it seems Qmle imports models rather rough.
One moment they are exact on the 0'0'0 axis.
But after playing in game they suddenly drop 24 to 48 units down the zero line.
Also it seems as if there is no difference between the zero line and, let's say a multiple above or below.
#9005 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/22 05:13:50
all monsters' feet are at -24 units.
So
#9006 posted by Jago [84.249.95.211] on 2009/08/22 13:11:12
Noone has UnrealED3 (UT3) installed?
Jago: I Had A Quick Look
#9007 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.52.182] on 2009/08/22 19:20:20
Heh - my first time ever looking at UnrealEditor. The level looks pretty smart, You obviously blocked it out with the brick texture. I never work like this, although I know a lot of people do. I actually dont think that the red brick texture should be used anywhere in this map. I think if you went for some tech-style textures (metal panels etc) which would go with the trim. The trim (the meshes and stuff) look like they are out of a spaceship, or an oil-rig or something.
I think you would find that the level would start to materialise into something which looked a bit better-themed if you slowly went through the map and replaced all of the brick textures, with dark metal panels and suchlike.
The layout looked prety interesting - multi-tiered, and nice interconnection. So I would say you should finish it for sure. Just do more with tech-style texturing and good old brushwork :D
Nice work
Looking Into Making A New .map Editor
#9008 posted by Discoloda [173.55.248.112] on 2009/08/22 23:23:23
Tell me, what features do you like and what parts do you not like. anything goes.
It will be implemented in Erlang with plugins written in Erlang. The newest release of Erlang includes wxWidgets and OpenGL so I decided to learn how to use wxWidgets.
Good Luck
#9009 posted by ijed [190.20.119.90] on 2009/08/22 23:40:48
I'd say these are the important features:
Good Cameras
Decent Texture System, with texture lock and multiple WAD support
Ease of use entity listing (def, fgd, whatever)
Ease of install / setup
Slice Brush Tool
Vertex Manipulation Tool
Prefab Library
Probably some stuff I'm forgetting there.
Damn
#9010 posted by ijed [190.20.119.90] on 2009/08/22 23:41:35
Viusal (named group) hiding is nice as well.
Some Notes
#9011 posted by Discoloda [173.55.248.112] on 2009/08/22 23:58:22
| Good Cameras
Is that good camera controls? Ability to change camera positions quickly? i have an idea (look below)
| Decent Texture System, with texture lock and multiple WAD support
I consider multiple part of the virtual file system I will have to make.
Texture locking is for moving brushes, correct?
And what kind of User Interface controls are needed, tagging textures and using that to browse sounds usefull for instance.
| Ease of use entity listing (def, fgd, whatever)
I already started with using a fgd file to see how i can make my own format: http://3spire.com/quake.txt
it is based on Erlang terms and can be loaded easyly, will this format work?
Configuration will also use this kind of file, so that it can be loaded easily.
| Ease of install / setup
I plan on using the same install system of Wings3D
| Slice Brush Tool
| Vertex Manipulation Tool
These should be able to be done with plugins
| Prefab Library
Also done with plugins, so that the prefabs can be configurable
| Visual (named group) hiding
I would like to be able to provide multiple views into the same map as represented as named tabs. Each tab can control visibility of each brush/entity and the positions of the 3d camera and 2d grids.
Another idea is to make brushes and entities each belong to multiple layers, and hiding/showing layers are per tab as well.
Awesome
#9012 posted by Spirit [80.171.29.39] on 2009/08/23 00:17:04
QuArK does some things really well.
-I LOVE the interface (how you create and edit things) and could never get into the major brainfuck that are the radiantish editors (Blender is easier...). Not to mention not having a mess of lines but just dots for the grid. So such an interface would get my love.
-All the texture alignment features (apart from locking I think).
-grouping things in folders, also being able to hide those.
The texture browsing is badly implemented, vertex editing is plain horror.
So Vertex editing is what I am after the most. Especially if you could then triangulate for new edges.
#9013 posted by ijed [190.20.119.90] on 2009/08/23 00:31:11
Cameras - all of those. Extras like 'walkthrough mode' and so on are just a waste of time, although a feature I'd like to see is 'mangle readout' so that placing camera entities inside the level becomes easier.
Yeah, texture lock means it doesn't move when you move or rotate the brush - not an easy technical challenge. Changing projection options between local / global is useful as well.
Tagging isn't as useful as it sounds, even though it does seem like you're going for an 'all wads on the HD' approach (which is great). I say this because wads are usually named in a fairly logical fashion - the ones that aren't tend to be not very good. For me such a feature would be an extra. If the texture listing is alphabetical then you're probably good.
Having said that a 'currently used in map' toggle would be good. Worldcraft is a popular editor (I use it as well despite the bugs) which has a very nice texture system - you couldn't go wrong by copying it.
For an entity list remember that it needs to be editable by mappers who may not have any coding knowledge - the simpler the better.
Tabs = win. Especially if they're user editable.
And finally, make everything you can customisable as far as the interface goes. Nobody works the same way, so the easier it is to turn the grid from lines to dots or chocolate drops the better. For example :)
Like with most 3D editors, ease of use and end user customisation options tends to win out over powerful functionality.
Hm
#9014 posted by ijed [190.20.119.90] on 2009/08/23 00:33:54
'Worldcraft has a nice texture system' that's only true if you count not having to convert the wads (in 3.3 at least, 1.6a has shitty texturing).
New Editor
#9015 posted by grahf [74.127.73.102] on 2009/08/24 03:49:23
What will yours do that will set it apart from others? Or is it just a fun personal project to learn programming stuff?
I think strong brush manipulation tools are key for working with large and complex objects - actions like flipping, rotating, scaling are very helpful and save time for the mapper.
Also, it's probably not a must have feature but I really love 3-point clipping.
#9016 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/24 05:14:09
What will yours do that will set it apart from others? Or is it just a fun personal project to learn programming stuff?
this is the first thing that came to me mind.
as grahf said, good brush manipulation is a must. rotating groups of brushes by arbitrary angles (with intelligent vertex snapping onto the grid). more powerful automation of texturing over curves (being able to propagate texture alignment as if multiple faces were a single one, for example). mixing between the straight forward regioning of gtkr and vis groups of WC.
basically this late in the game, it'd take a lot to make me switch editors.
#9017 posted by Discoloda [173.55.248.112] on 2009/08/25 17:56:34
I have always wanted to create a mapping program, but the interface bits is my more immediate concern.
I would like to get this to a level of making maps for Nexiuz.
I also would like to model the editor to be more like Wings3D, where there are commands that can be done on vertex, edge, face, object.
And concerning the convex nature of brushes I would like to be able store a complex brush while editing that gets decomposed as multiple brushes when saving to a .map files.
That should solve many problems with brush editing I think. treating it like a 3d model rather than a convex object.
for curve texturing, that sounds possible with the internal representation of the brush I have decided to use. And it annoyed me as a mapper that I had to manually adjust texture offsets to get them to match.
This is not the best time for me to start a project (getting married in a month and I travel alot) but this will defiantly sustain my attention.
#9018 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/25 19:15:09
"And concerning the convex nature of brushes I would like to be able store a complex brush while editing that gets decomposed as multiple brushes when saving to a .map files.
That should solve many problems with brush editing I think. treating it like a 3d model rather than a convex object."
This is something that I wanted to do for ToeTag but, brother, it's a bitch. If you can get it working it'll be great but I haven't found a nice, reliable way to break down meshes into convex chunks yet.
Although I haven't tried my octree idea yet... that one had promise.
#9019 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/25 19:18:14
In fact, if you've got a handle on things like how to do texture locking and breaking down meshes and that sort of math in general - we should get together and maybe do a cross platform version of ToeTag or something.
#9020 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.110] on 2009/08/25 20:03:41
concave, not convex, right?
That feature would be a true killer feature.
#9021 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/25 20:05:03
dunno if this is what you mean, but it would be awesome if you essentially build a 3d mesh out of n-sided polys just like in 3ds max and the editor would automatically split ngons into tris. afterwards, it would look at the face normal and whichever direction is closest, north, south, east or west, it would simply extrude the face backwards, keeping it parallel.
ie: you make a collection of faces that face upwards, it would extrude the face down allowing you to make cool trisouped terrain easily. the same could be applied for caves.
#9022 posted by Trinca [213.22.73.31] on 2009/08/26 01:05:51
Madfox looks very nice the frogman :)
The
#9023 posted by ijed [190.20.92.165] on 2009/08/26 03:07:33
Type of advanced brush treatment you're describing isn't in any bsp editor I've seen (anyone else?) so if you need testing then let me know.
I'm pretty busy so testing to destruction I probably can't do, be an update a week wouldn't be a problem.
Moving Discussion Of New Map Editor
#9024 posted by Discoloda [67.182.29.89] on 2009/08/27 05:34:09
http://groups.google.com/group/map...
Why?
#9025 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/08/27 12:56:31
#9026 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/28 13:54:02
Yeah, all the mappers are here. :)
Maybe
#9027 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/08/29 02:35:02
all editors are there....
preach, you've got email.
Toetag
#9028 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/08/29 13:55:26
Does Toetag work in Linux, since Apple's current operating system is mostly Unix based ?
No
#9029 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.20] on 2009/08/29 14:17:44
Would using a GPU for VIS be a possible (and sensible) idea?
#9030 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/29 18:19:56
"Does Toetag work in Linux, since Apple's current operating system is mostly Unix based ?"
No, it heavily relies on Cocoa and Objective-C. The underlying OS isn't really a factor.
Linux Mapping
#9031 posted by grahf [74.127.73.102] on 2009/08/29 21:08:03
Radiant is probably your best bet, either the venerable GTKRadiant or the somewhat newer fork NetRadiant.
Necros
#9032 posted by ijed [190.20.89.177] on 2009/08/30 17:07:36
What went wrong with your building outside the limits experiment? I don't remember :P
I'm thinking of a similar sort of thing, a brushwork skybox.
The Hell, Will It Ever End!
#9033 posted by negke [88.70.64.80] on 2009/08/30 19:39:59
99.60% and it takes longer than forever even on a quad core machine. At this rate, I estimate it will be done in around five days. However, the problem is that I will be out of town for a month tomorrow (I'll still have a computer available, but a slow one).
So, does anyone here by chance have a really fast machine and is willing to help me out? Willem, that 16 core thing of yours - would it be possible to use it for this or is it only for work stuff?
#9034 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/30 20:32:55
ijed: absolutely nothing! you can build outside the +/-4096^3 playable area to your heart's content, just don't ever let the player walk past that boundary because they 'loop' back to the opposite side of the map (like in pac-man) but the collision behaves as if you hadn't looped back.
also, don't let the player shoot projectiles past the boundary because they loop back too. if this is for RQ, it would be a good idea to place triggers along those boundaries to remove projectiles.
also, as a side-effect to this looping, you can't place any point entities outside the boundary, but bmodel entities are ok.
there is a hard limit though. you can't build past +/- 8192. anything beyond that doesn't get displayed at all. in fitzquake, it looks like you have farclip on-- it's just cut off at that point and you see the void (or hom).
this behaviour is attributed to the fact that the coordinate system of the server runs on variables twice as large as that of the client.
Negke
#9035 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.19] on 2009/08/30 21:10:46
Play russian roulette: Set up a script that zips and uploads the file in 120 hours, then shutdown the pc.
#9036 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/08/30 21:37:01
negke
I could try and run it but it IS a work machine. I can't tie it up endlessly with a VIS process...
Hehe
#9037 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/30 22:15:25
with 16 cores, just keep like 4 for you and the rest for vis. :P
well, unless it's used for cg rendering or something and let me tell you, 16 cores rendering would be pretty damn badass.
Thanks
#9038 posted by ijed [190.20.68.227] on 2009/08/30 22:45:46
Re: 9035
#9039 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/30 23:12:35
are you could just make a script upload the file every few days along with it's .vis file to the same spot and you can keep checking to see when you have a complete map by starting the vis process up on your slow machine.
Negke:
#9040 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/08/30 23:23:57
there is a hard limit though. you can't build past +/- 8192. anything beyond that doesn't get displayed at all. in fitzquake, it looks like you have farclip on-- it's just cut off at that point and you see the void (or hom).
this behaviour is attributed to the fact that the coordinate system of the server runs on variables twice as large as that of the client.
this is not quite right. Both server and client use floats for their coordinate system, but the network protocol uses a special 13.3 fixed point format when sending coordinates. This means 13 bits devoted to the integer part of the number, and 3 bits devoted to the fractional part. So the precision is 1/8th of a quake unit, and the highest possible number is 4095.875 (lowest is -4096)
so when a client is rendering anything with coordinates that come from the server, it will never be outside that range. But the server side location and physics are actually working, just what you see is wrong.
The question of how far quake can draw world polygons should just be covered by the gl_farclip distance, which is configurable in some engines. Not sure if there are any other factors besides that.
#9041 posted by Discoloda [67.182.29.89] on 2009/08/30 23:43:01
I made a google group because this forum is not very efficient, its only one thread.
9040
#9042 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/08/30 23:58:00
oh sorry. when we were talking about it before, it was a little complex so i guess i forgot some of it.
i'm not really sure what was happening regarding that 8192 hard limit, but that no matter what gl_farclip setting i set, i could never seen beyond, what i was guessing would be 8192 units away from the origin.
there was a solid cut off with just void at that point that didn't move at all.
Necros:
#9043 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/08/31 05:32:11
hmm, must be some other cause then, maybe the vis tool uses some distance limit? Does it show up with r_novis 1?
#9044 posted by negke [88.70.60.222] on 2009/08/31 10:11:50
Willem: Hm, I see. Don't want to cause you any trouble of course. I just want to finally get this thing out for good (and as soon as possible, not only in October). Maybe you could at least let it run during a lunch break for an hour or so to see how much progress it makes? I would then continue from there.
Spirit: Indeed, but I don't like the idea of leaving the computer on for such a long time when I'm not around.
#9045 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/08/31 13:42:35
negke
Sure, email it to me or put it up somewhere I can download it. I'll run it overnight or something if you want...
Excellent
#9046 posted by negke [88.70.54.145] on 2009/08/31 15:18:49
#9047 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/04 20:02:09
if anyone is still interested, my solution to my problem above with long vis times was simply to remove all the terrain into a seperate map. that map will only get a quick vis, leaving the left-overs of the original to get a full vis (which only took 20 hours vs 700-1200~, lol).
#9048 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/09/04 20:07:56
What does that mean? Can you have separate maps like that for release, or is this just a way to let you iterate without killing yourself?
Necros
#9049 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/09/04 20:15:16
I am confused about what you said.. Is it really possible to fastvis only one part of a map, and then fullvis the rest of the same map ? How do you do that ?
Do You Mean
#9050 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/09/04 20:37:32
Having a .bsp placed in the map as a model?
#9051 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/04 20:43:04
sorry for the confusion, i just meant that i split the map up. the first portion has enough terrain to connect the interior areas, but i reworked gameplay such that the majority of the terrain could be removed and placed in a seperate map to be played linearily after the first.
terrain seems to be a serious vis killer. all those odd angles and varied planes really fucks the BSP process up resulting in thousands of extra portals or whatever. since the terrain section is mostly wide open anyway, and vising would have limited to no effect, that map will just be fast-vised.
Otoh
#9052 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/04 20:44:37
i would be incredibly bad-ass if you could, for example, modify qbsp so that if you cover an area with a 'fastvis' textured brush, any portals (or whatever they are) that are touching that brush are ignored in the full-vis process. :P
Well
#9053 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/09/04 20:56:09
Maybe placing bsp's as entities could work. How it'd not get screwed by vis (flickering entities) would probably depend on dividing it up into chunks with some trial and error though.
#9054 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/04 21:54:19
lighting something like that would be a nightmare though. :S
#9055 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.159] on 2009/09/05 00:17:20
depends on the engine i guess. with a shiny swiss army tool like darkplaces it should work fine. for some fun copy some map to progs/player.mdl and do chase_active 1 plus chase_back 3000 (or something like that). a piece of cake for dp.
proper lighting (for the "external" objects "in" the terrain map) would hard though,yeah
Add New Weapon
#9056 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/05 19:27:57
Where can I find a suitable add new weapon qc?
I searched at Inside3D but all there is are modified already ingame weapons.
Tutorial
#9057 posted by Preach [217.44.221.5] on 2009/09/05 19:47:53
It's just a matter of finding the right tutorial:
http://www.inside3d.com/showtutori...
This one is about adding new weapons. You do have to pay attention to some of the slight cheats they have to use. One is that rather than setting up a new key to press for the weapon, they make it so that pressing 2 twice brings it up. They also don't make a new entity in the map for it, which is something I expect you'd do if you're making a custom map.
Random
#9058 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.6] on 2009/09/05 23:46:33
Building http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2... on modern Linux is easy, just remove the lines containing the del and coff2exe references.
And now I'll continue the search for a commandline mip2saneimageformat tool. Could not get MIP2BMP.EXE from http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2... to work with Dosbox.
#9059 posted by Spirit [213.39.223.6] on 2009/09/06 00:22:26
Niels Froehling's QuakeTools-library would be an epiphany but compiling is just not possible without a tremendous amount of work I guess. http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Found
#9060 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/06 04:19:03
the right tutorial indeed, but after covering all errors I just keep
drawing 2 untill I too error.
Seems as if replacing v_shot.mdl is an easier way for testing.
Strange to conclude these tuts are so wicked in error messages.
Although they added my EathQuake.
My New Mapping Technique Is Unstoppable
#9061 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/08 21:29:29
i've been trying something new. essentially, working only from the top view, i'll drag out brushes 32 units high of varying width and length creating floors. i create a significant portion of the map at a time in this manner and i specifically try *not* to pay much attention to the size of those floors, other than keeping them on a 32x32 grid for texture alignment purposes.
i'll make the decision that, say, a generic hallway is 192 units wide, but everything else goes. a room can be any dimension (and any combination of brushes to create the final shape).
after doing this, in a side view, i'll semi-randomly move connected sections of floor up or down up to 256 units (in either direction).
this can lead to some pretty weird and convoluted shapes with that sort of 'tumor growth' mapping look.
I'm Not Sure I Get It.
#9062 posted by grahf [74.127.73.102] on 2009/09/09 07:30:39
pics to demonstrate, please?
GTKRadiant Not Finding Quake 1 Textures
#9063 posted by arrrgh [115.166.36.150] on 2009/09/13 08:16:05
I just installed GTKRadiant to try some Quake editing, and I set up the paths all right, but it won't load any textures other than the SHADER NOT FOUND one. When I look in the console it says:
Texture load failed: "textures/"
Any hints on what could be going wrong?
What Version Of GTKRadiant?
#9064 posted by Jago [84.249.95.211] on 2009/09/13 14:32:32
In the latest version of GTKR 1.5, I just put the .WAD files in C:\Games\Quake\id1 and point the editor to C:\Games\Quake for the game engine path.
How To Extract?
#9065 posted by arrrgh [115.166.36.150] on 2009/09/14 09:33:09
How do I extract the WADS from the PAKS? I've tried several programs but I can't see any .wad files anywhere...
#9066 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/09/14 09:59:13
the wads aren't in the pak files at all, but you can get the textures from the individual BSP files.
But you can also get the wads here: http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/ (look for "quakewad" i think")
Yay!
#9067 posted by arrrgh [115.166.36.150] on 2009/09/14 10:19:54
Downloaded the quakewad file and put it in id1... Now works perfectly! Thanks! Although you need to rename the quake101.wad to quake1.wad.
How Are You Guys Lighting Your Quake Levels?
#9068 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/09/18 07:34:14
What light program and command line options? How many light entities? (relative to the number of brushes maybe, just to give perspective). Do you use minlight or skylight or both? How long does it take to run the light part of compiling the level.
I'm real curious about this cause I read a post where Than said the Plumbers Carry Shotguns level took about 25 seconds to light, and my current map is taking almost 10 mins for a high quality pass. There were 2758 brushes and 16621 faces at the time of this run:
----- Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Extra 4x4 sampling enabled
Soft light 3 enabled
Soft distance 16 set
File: c:\quake\id1\maps\wish16.bsp
Using minlight value 15 from worldspawn
1079 entities read, 625 are lights, 13879 faces, 3.9G casts
4 switchable light styles
lightdatasize: 467 kb
Elapsed time : 9:58
Well That Aint Too Bad Really
#9069 posted by RickyT23 [86.136.54.59] on 2009/09/18 10:31:22
Many of my maps have taken double that (like 20 mins) in the past.
Plumbers Dont Wear Ties is a detailed map, but not too detailed, but also its not really that big. Its a realistic scale, and its condensed, but its not very big compared to say the Warp maps or Marcher Fortress. Load Bengts engine and load the Plumbers map and type into the console "lightmaps" and try it with your own map too. Lightmaps are if you like "X amount of texture worth of light info", so the bigger the map (so long as the texture scale is 1:1) the more lightmaps.
Also if you have plenty detail in your map that wont help the speed (but it will make the map look sexier :).
I wouldnt worry about it too much!
#9070 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/09/18 17:29:52
I probably should have mentioned I used a Core2Duo e6850 (2x 3.0 GHz) with 2 GB RAM.
I wasn't worried really, it just seemed like 25 secs was way low for a map like that. I ran id's e3m1 this morning with the same settings as I used for my map and it took 2 mins 14 secs.
Anyway, I'm still curious how other people light their maps.
Light My Fire
#9071 posted by grahf [74.127.73.102] on 2009/09/18 19:55:58
this is my understanding of the issue...
When you have multiple lights with inverse falloffs hitting the same surfaces over a long distance, the light time tends to go up. With inverse and inverse square falloffs, the light level never completely hits zero, so if a light using those formulas is in a wide open area, all the surfaces within line of sight of that light have to be calculated, even if the light level only increases infitesimally.
APSP2 was a fairly narrow and cramped map, so while it was detailed, none of the lights had to cast very far.
The extra 4x4 sampling and soft stuff increases the time as well. But thankfully, light calculation time is not painfully exponential like vis, it seems to increase fairly linearly.
Re Lighting
#9072 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/18 20:28:42
Rick: are you sure Than didn't say 25 minutes? to me, that would seem more realistic for a map of that size with the amount of lights present. but maybe he just has a monster machine...
grahf: aguirRe and i had a discussion about this kind of phenomenon with inverse square lights. mostly it was regarding how using that delay type with switchable lights could quickly run up to the max lightstyles on a face warning.
he implemented the 'fade gate' command line. essentially, it will cut the light off once it's light level has been attenuated below a cutoff point.
setting -gate 1 on aguirRe's light util will cut down on lighting times by a large margin because it's disregarding a lot of lighting that wouldn't even be seen.
back to Rick: as for light utils and settings, for preview compiles, i use:
light -gate 1.0 -fast -soft
and final compiles is:
light -gate 1.0 -soft -extra
i don't use extra4 though, because that is just insane and will take millennia to compile. aguirRe recommends -fast -soft -extra4, but i haven't tried that yet.
it's really worth your time to look through all the info aguirRe has on how to use his tools: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/rea... the lighting tool has a huge amount of options in there.
Lighting...
#9073 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/09/19 08:48:02
Yeah, extra4 basically takes about 10x as long on my maps, so for a quick look I don't use it, with just -soft it'll light in about one minute.
I did read through all that documentation and it was very helpful, I've been experimenting with a lot of the new stuff.
I wasn't real clear on the Gate thing, but now I think I understand it. I'm also not certain exactly how the -softdist is supposed to be used, but it seems like I get a lot fewer of those abnormally dark faces when I use that option. The documentation (I think)indicated using small numbers like 3 or 4, but I've been using -softdist 16
#9074 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/19 23:43:41
i guess it's impossible to change the player model's angle without having to use fixangle = 1 (thus changing the angle the player is looking?
it seems i will have to replace the player with an invisible sprite and then make a dummy model that follows the player's position in order for me to get the results i want?
Yeah, I Think That's Correct
#9075 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/09/20 07:36:57
but you probably need to use an .mdl, otherwise there might be engine issues (i know the weaponmodel expects to be a mdl, not sure about playermodel)
#9076 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/20 10:42:06
i got it working with a sprite so seems everything's ok.
btw, your chase camera is kind of wonky and is prone to being shaky at times. it seems to pick up on stairs and angled floors in front of the player, where the crosshair is pointing or something. just fyi :)
i've also noticed a bug with the camera where, if you are looking down, and the camera is higher than the player, and you enter into a tunnel where the ceiling is lower than where your camera is, the camera goes psycho and starts moving in huge arcs outside the map. (this is with chase_up set at 32, which is higher than the default)
Necros:
#9077 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/09/20 10:48:25
yeah, it kind of sucks. I sort of stopped trying to fix it once i realized it's pretty much a gimmick and Quake is better in first-person mode anyway :)
GTkRadiant
#9078 posted by Nik [110.33.169.244] on 2009/09/20 20:00:10
Cannot compile in GTKRadiant 1.5 for Quake. Anyone know how to fix this for GTKRadiant 1.5?
Nik
#9079 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/21 04:59:28
Try the "search on this page" option while vieuwing all posts of this thread upwards with the word GTKRadiant.
I Know It's Cheap...,
#9080 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/21 05:01:25
but helpfull.
So....
#9081 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/25 21:31:38
just looking around at the quake sources.......
how the fuck did they get any of that to even compile? o.0
#9082 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/09/25 21:41:39
I know it's easy to point and laugh at the original Quake maps but those guys built some pretty cool levels with technology that was changing on a daily basis. That's tough to do.
#9083 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/09/25 21:42:07
Not to mention the primitive tools. QuakeEd was ... pretty rough.
#9084 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/25 21:59:55
i'm not laughing. i'm serious. the original qbsp was incredibly finicky which is what taught me to map with incredible precision making sure everything lined up properly etc etc.
looking at maps like e2m2, it's almost like divine luck or arcane power that would have allowed it to compile without exploding.
Dog Rough
#9085 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/09/25 23:14:26
But when you look at it you can see that they're at the minimum level of compilability.
Which means each of those maps must have undergone loads of iterations to reach that level, probably starting with something resembling Escher vomit.
Like Willem says, after ten years of trial and error with bsp it's impossible to make a comparison.
Fake Shadows
#9086 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/27 02:30:48
I constructed a terrain map with triangles.
After fitting all polyhedrons well tight the light seem to cast all kind of rare shadows.
Is there a way to avoid this odd behaviour?
#9087 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/27 05:03:06
depends.
if you're using aguirRe's light
i found -soft will make these shadows a lot. even if the faces are perfectly connected. obviously, not using -soft is a solution, but not a good one. if this is a preview compile, and you have -soft and -fast, usually not doing -fast will reduce it.
it's always there though, afaik. smooth transitions of angles like terrain don't seem to go over well with any of the quake tools. :P
Oh
#9088 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/09/27 05:06:13
one thing, you can try using _anglesense 0.1 on lights hitting the terrain (and _anglesense on your worldspawn for sunlight). setting angle sensitivity way down like that will make light not attenuate much on different angles. this makes it look very shitty and weird (faces not really facing the light will still be bright as if they are directly facing it) though, so it may not be a viable solution (i haven't tried it)
Black Slopes
#9089 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/09/28 04:22:43
I made a polyhedron from a cube and cut of a pyramide on top.
After some punctual accurasy it can be used for terrain maps.
Point is that after placing it on grid and changing the topangles also replaces the cube foot after forcing it to grid.
So if I don't force to grid the lightning looks well.
After forcing it to grid the slopes cause black shadows.
I will try your light options.
Haven't Tried
#9090 posted by ijed [190.20.119.138] on 2009/09/28 13:50:39
anglesense either, but according to AguirRe it will give a softer, more diffuse lighting effect.
shadows on triangle geometry are always a problem - AFAIK they cannot be solved 100% - but I've never had the problem. So far.
Too Many Static Entities
#9091 posted by telefragger [70.198.237.131] on 2009/10/03 19:03:58
My map compiles with no issues, but when i goto open it with my client i get an error of "too many static entities" any ideas of what this means?
#9092 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/10/03 19:22:39
Not to state the obvious, but you've gone over the static entity limit for Quake. You'll either have to reduce the number of static entities in the map or play it on an engine that has a higher limit...
#9093 posted by telefragger [70.198.237.131] on 2009/10/03 19:31:10
whats the limit then? I'm running ezQuake as a client... I've looked around and most sources said its a limit of 128 is that true? then i noticed a post by rick earlier and by reading his post it said that he has 625 light in his map... how is this possible i think mine is 172 if im not mistaken...
#9094 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/03 19:42:59
yes, 128 static entities is the limit.
not all light are static entities. essentially, only an entity with a model can be made static, so this only includes flames and torches. normal lights with no entities are not counted.
try to replace your torches with normal lights and use light textures instead if you can.
#9095 posted by telefragger [70.198.237.131] on 2009/10/03 20:01:15
damn.... kinda defeats the mood of the map im creating.. looks awesome with all the torches... thank you for the help...
#9096 posted by telefragger [70.198.237.131] on 2009/10/03 20:27:08
one more thing... is the 128 limit going to effect my backpack and flags too? because they have a model attached to the entity...
#9097 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/03 20:27:29
you could look into other custom engines, i suppose, although curiously, a fair few custom engines which do have bumped up limits still have the old 128 static entity limit.
both fitzquake and aguirRe's glquake allow many more static entities, but as you're using ezquake, you may not be satisfied with those engines because they stick pretty closely to the original glquake.
#9098 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/03 20:29:48
cross posted, re: 9096
there's 2 types of entities in quake.
static and dynamic. dynamic is most types of entities like monsters, items, doors, triggers, etc. these are also called edicts, and you can have a maximum of 600 edicts in a map.
the only reason torches are made static is because they never move, and never interact with the environment in any way.
New Stuff Learned Today.
#9099 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/10/05 02:23:51
Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. You can't trigger a trigger_monsterjump.
2. A trigger_once can't have a killtarget or it won't trigger it's actual target?
3. Clip brushes can be part of a func_door and will push monsters.
4. The model limit is 256.
#9100 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/05 02:42:55
1. nope (trigger_monsterjump has no use function)
2. nope
killtargets are processed first, before targets are.
3. i know it definitely pushes the player, so probably monsters
4. yep
#9101 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/10/05 03:09:18
Well, I though clip brushes didn't affect monsters since they won't cross gaps filled with them. Maybe that's a game logic thing though.
#9102 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/05 03:19:13
that happens for a different reason. ai decides how it moves based on the visual hull (hull 0) while collision is based on the respective hulls (1 and 2). a monster could walk over a clipped service and wouldn't fall, but the ai decides not to.
#9103 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/10/05 04:06:32
For a clip brush to be part of a door it seems like the clip brush has to be surrounded by regular brushes, or maybe the door model has to be bounded by real brushes. Something like that. I had a door with two regular brushes at the ends of a long clip brush (looking from above) which pushed some scrags upward and it worked. I removed one of the real brushes and then it didn't work.
I'm Not Sure
#9104 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/05 06:47:13
but i believe that the clip brush must be within the mins/maxs bounding box of whatever bmodel.
Yeah
#9105 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/10/05 15:19:38
Clip must be 'inside' the normal brush model or they won't collide.
BBOX explanation - the space is defined on the grid with three negative and three positive numbers. so -1 -1 -1, 1 1 1 gives you a 2sq cube.
All objects work like that, including triggers. So don't expect a L-shaped or diagonal trigger to have an Lshaped or diagonal area of effect.
The only trigger that can be triggered in standard quake (I think) is trigger_teleport - useful for the classic black box monster spawning or auto-porting the player when a condition is met (eg. kill an enemy).
Pre Lauching Elevator
#9106 posted by telefragger [70.198.181.34] on 2009/10/06 07:42:30
I made an elevator in the corner of my map to bring you to the top of this little bunker, but it seems to always start moving upwards just before you get on... Is there a way to decrease the 'sensitivity' of it so i can get on first?
No.
#9107 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/06 09:54:42
func_plat activation trigger is based on mins/maxs of the bmodel in question. the only alternative is to use a func_door + trigger_multiple combo instead which would allow you to set a custom trigger size (or change the func_plat).
GTKRadiant
#9108 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/10/06 14:46:33
This has been covered before I'm sure, probably in this very thread, BUT...
I've downloaded GTKRadiant 1.5 for my Windows BootCamp partition and it's running fine ... except I don't understand where to put my WAD files so it can see them. Any hints? Their documentation is equal parts missing and abysmal.
#9109 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/10/06 16:07:15
OK, after reading way back in this thread I see I need to put WADs into Quake/ID1 but that seemed to be crashing GTKRadiant this morning when I tried that on a whim. I guess I'll try it again tonight. Weird.
Pre Launching Elevator
#9110 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2009/10/06 17:30:42
It sounds like you're using a door (which is triggered as soon as its touched) instead of a plat (which triggers when you reach it's center).
Give the door a name and make a trigger_multiple to make it start moving. Put the trigger_multiple right on top of the door/plat and make it 32 units smaller in the X and Y directions that way the player will have to be completely on before they touch the trigger.
You'll probably want the delay before reset time on the trigger to be long enough for the door to complete it's travel up and down.
Why
#9111 posted by megaman [94.221.107.50] on 2009/10/06 17:35:45
does the ai use the visible hull? bug or feature?
Not Sure
#9112 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/10/06 17:36:55
But its the cause of fish and scrags sometimes going through walls, although the bugs are slightly different.
Pre Lauching Elevator
#9113 posted by telefragger [75.236.113.207] on 2009/10/06 19:22:07
It was an odd shaped platform which seemed to be the issue... So I went with the basic square shaped one instead.
Like I Was Saying Before
#9114 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/10/06 20:09:22
If your platform was a Z shape for example, then Quake would just draw a big square bounding box for the trigger. Slightly smaller than the Z, but not following the shape.
#9115 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/10/06 20:19:37
Sorry for the string of noob-ass questions, but I'd really like to be building something by tonight.
Do GTKRadiant users typically compile from a command line or do you go through the trouble of telling the editor where to find your compile tools? If you go through the trouble, how do you do it? Is it a hassle?
#9116 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/06 20:34:58
not gtkr, but i use sikkpin's qe3 which is essentially very similar.
i never use the menu system, although i believe it's the same thing. i have one of those gamer keyboards, and i have a macro to compile my map bound to one of the keys.
before i started using qe3 (and before this keyboard) i was using gtkr1.4 and i'd just keep a command prompt open in the background and what i wanted to compile, i'd just switch to it and use the previous command button which would launch a batch file.
Hmm
#9117 posted by nonentity [87.194.146.225] on 2009/10/07 11:49:22
As necros said, just use batch files for compiling, the in editor menu gets a bit trippy when compiling for Q1.
Also, you might want to try using GTK1.4 and mapconv, there's a tutorial how somewhere on necros' site [ http://necros.planetquake.gamespy.... ], the interface/creation flow was changed quite a lot in 1.5, for the worse in my (and a fair few others') opinion. You may prefer the 1.5 interface, but I'd suggest trying out both versions and making your own call...
#9118 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2009/10/07 13:56:17
I set up the in-editor menu. It's pretty easy, you just edit the XML file sitting in the q1.game folder. The one thing I can't figure out how to do is copy the BSP to the right directory and start the game up. So I need a command line open for that regardless...
Oh, and here's a story for the stupid. I set everything up last night and I made a small test room with a light. It compiled, loaded into the game, everything was grand. I then booted back into OSX to resize the partition I gave Windows because it was too small (FYI, 15GB is too small for Windows Vista and a Quake editor). While doing this, I misunderstood something and ended up killing the Windows partition entirely.
So ... I re-created it and reinstalled everything AGAIN. Only this tims I allocated 32GB. Let's hope that'll be enough.
Yeah
#9119 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/07 23:23:16
windows partitions need about 10gb (or more maybe, for vista?) just for the OS itself and then you're gonna want at least 2-4gb for your paging file.
you never really notice that when you're setting it up on a native windows machine, but when you're splitting between mac and windows, it becomes noticeable. mind you, mac isn't exactly a lightweight either; i spent a couple of days cleaning out all the useless software on my macbook, but i needed about 80gb for my macos partition to be able to work comfortably.
anyway, on the subject of gtkr, i personally hated the 1.5 version of the program. they changed fundamental UI stuffs in there which made it a lot slower to use (eg: operations that used to take 1 key press now would take 2), so even though 1.5 supports q1 natively, i found it harder to use than to just save a q3 .map and have a batch file that runs a converter first (aguirRe's, i believe, is the most up-to-date) and then compiles.
as for batch files, just make a bunch of them (for different compile levels) and put them on your start menu (or get rocketdock which is essentially the mac dock for windows) and you can just click the appropriate one and never have to touch a command prompt.
Lol
#9120 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.17.152] on 2009/10/08 00:53:27
My c: is 80gb
Another Vote For 1.4 Here.
#9121 posted by Mr Fribbles [59.167.199.179] on 2009/10/08 03:29:43
Yes, I'm gonna keep on beating that dead old horse.
Linux?
#9122 posted by Barney [216.121.182.219] on 2009/10/10 06:24:19
I'm thinking about installing Quake and GtKRadiant on this new Linux box I've got.
Can anybody point me in the right direction?
Netradiant
#9123 posted by megaman [94.221.109.55] on 2009/10/10 11:12:03
the gtkradiant based off 1.5 that the darkplaces/warsow? guys use.
FitzQuake 0.85 Question
#9124 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/10/10 14:33:10
Is there a way to make it so I can launch FitzQuake to check out my level without it resizing every window on my desktop? Or is this just a Window wart that I have to accept?
#9125 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/10/10 16:03:41
OK, I guess the answer is to run GTKRadiant in a non-maximized state. That seems to reduce the amount of swearing I need to do each time I test the map...
Willem:
#9126 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2009/10/11 01:04:28
if it's fitzquake 0.85, you can run it windowed but with a -height and -width equal to your desktop -- this will fill the screen completely but without your desktop actually switching modes, which might help.
#9127 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/10/11 01:24:47
Ahh. that's something I hadn't thought of. OK, will try, thanks!
Dumb Simple Question
#9128 posted by Drew [70.51.21.43] on 2009/10/24 01:14:15
setting sunlight?
good value for day time light?
I don't understand the angle situation. I've just never bothered to. Can someone give a simple explanation of how they'll work?
Ofhand
#9129 posted by ijed [190.20.98.171] on 2009/10/24 02:40:41
No, but just read AguirRe's docs:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
More and more concise information than you'll need.
Offhand, Even
#9130 posted by ijed [190.20.98.171] on 2009/10/24 02:41:54
Nice
#9131 posted by Drew [70.51.21.43] on 2009/10/24 17:56:16
Thanks Ijed. I can't believe I haven't read through that stuff already!
Kind of confused about the implementation of 'second suns'.
My basic understanding is that I just put _sunlight2 in worldspawn with a lowish value and it will lessen ugly shadows?
_sunlight
#9132 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/10/24 20:16:34
or take one sun and lighten those ugly shadows with a light.exe -light 15 so the deep darkened places keep their luminance for a degree of 15. Helpfull, while it diminish placing lots of extra lights.
^v^
Yeah
#9133 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/10/24 20:17:36
it's really not _sunlight2, it's _sunlightarea_minlight.
it's a different minlight for areas that the sun hits.
Oh Okay.
#9134 posted by Drew [76.68.237.123] on 2009/10/24 22:08:13
Thanks guys, I think I actually get this now.
Hammer - Selection In 3d Window Issue With Catalyst
#9135 posted by Ankh [77.114.242.80] on 2009/11/02 21:55:14
I confirm that this solution to Hammer 3d window selection issue works:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
I have put this file into the hammer directory and the problem on my laptop is fixed.
http://rapidshare.com/files/138119...
Great! I can continue now.
#9136 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/11/02 23:12:56
I just wish there was a similar fix for Nvidia cards.
I Think It's The Same Dll I Posted A While Back
#9137 posted by ijed [190.20.113.35] on 2009/11/02 23:45:48
It works, but if I look at a face and not all of its verticies are visible in the window then the projection screws up, aligning the last UV coordinate to any other visible vert.
That's a bad description. Basically the UV's are all fucked up. That's better.
And Orl, there will be such a fix for your card, AFAIK Nvidia is much better supported, although to be honest I didn't know there was a WC problem.
What the DLL does is disable stuff, you'll notice there wasn't one there beforehand. WC checks if one exists and if so uses it in favour of the onboard library.
Does anyone have the knowledge + inclination to make one that forces software mode on? In WC1.6a there was an option for this :P
Ijed
#9138 posted by Ankh [77.115.140.119] on 2009/11/03 18:47:20
Maybe I don't understand the problem with UV's that you described, but try to enable Texture Filtering in 3d options window. After enabling this option the textures look ok for me.
Will Give It A Try
#9139 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/11/03 19:15:35
If it works my mapping time will double.
#9140 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2009/11/03 23:45:03
And Orl, there will be such a fix for your card, AFAIK Nvidia is much better supported, although to be honest I didn't know there was a WC problem.
Unfortunately, I very highly doubt there will be a fix. Basically the problem is, using any Nvidia drivers after version 182.50 in Worldcraft 1.6a in software mode, the 3D view is completely garbled, making it impossible to see anything.
And yet, even the older Worldcraft 1.1a's 3D view works perfectly fine with the latest Nvidia drivers... strange.
For whats its worth, I'm running Vista SP2 with an 8800gt.
Ankh You Are Legend
#9141 posted by ijed [190.20.105.55] on 2009/11/04 01:20:20
That works; turning off filter textures. Can't believe after pissing about with all those different (non) solutions I missed that option.
So the dll + filter off solves it for me - thanks!
Orl, have you tried 3.3? It might sound like a ballache to switch, but the texture lock alone makes it worth it. The renderer changed a fair bit (which is why I and others have had problems) but maybe its worth a try so you can map.
Speaking Of
#9142 posted by Drew [132.205.226.228] on 2009/11/04 21:14:53
textures and wc 3.3
does anyone else have problems converting texture files (not just because of overly large textures) with Bakers wad converter?
I think RT23 had some issues with that too - or maybe he helped me with mine... It's all foggy... ...what year is this?
I Think I Converted Some For You
#9143 posted by RickyT23 [82.25.182.231] on 2009/11/04 23:41:37
But the wads you wanted were weird
I never had that problem until I tried to convert that WAD which you were saying you couldnt manage.
Cant remember if I had to use texmex or wally as well as the supplied util. Its all on this thread somewhere, lol!
Most textures convert fine, it would seem to be some wads which dont (!)
Wrong Quake Lighting In Wolrdcraft ?
#9144 posted by BobbbyBob [91.34.228.185] on 2009/11/05 00:13:52
I hope somebody here can help me.I have make some small maps and trying different stuff they compile right and start. But the lighting isn't just right... I don't know what's wrong. I downloaded the original quake one maps in a .map format and there is the same problem.
The map E1M1.bsp for example. Some corners and the first double door left is way to black. On the door you can't even see the textures....
Many places are pretty same as in the game but when i started the original map in the Pak0.pak not through Worldcraft everthings is normal.
I use fitzquake085.exe for the game and the Quakeadapter tools for compiling and testing.
What tha hell am i doing wrong ???
Please reply cause i want to make a real map and not test maps anymore, and that's the only problem that prevents me from getting starting.
sorry for bad english i am from germany!
Heh Dont Worry Man!
#9145 posted by RickyT23 [82.25.182.231] on 2009/11/05 01:01:06
Open the .map file in a text editor, find some of the light entities and copy the text and post it here.
or upload one of your map files and ill take a look if you like.
Also take a screenshot of the Run Map window you get in Worldcraft when you press F9 "to run the map" and another screenshot of the "tools -> options -> Build Programs" window.
Seeing those might help too.....
Lights
#9146 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/05 01:20:54
Some corners and the first double door left is way to black
Maybe you use the wrong light options?
With Aguier's compilers you should have good results with let's say:
light.exe -dist 0.6 -range 0.6 -light 15 -soft
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Yeah
#9147 posted by Drew [65.92.21.199] on 2009/11/05 01:42:07
the converter doesn't convert any of my wads. I could try to convert id.wad and it wouldn't convert.
actually...
"Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\id_base.... ... details ...No log exists."
So, I guess I'll have to convert them with Texmex? I don't really even know how to do that - anyone have links to more info on this?
Oh, and good luck bobbbybob - i'm sure you'll figure it out if you follow Ricky's advice.
Pretty Weird Man!
#9148 posted by RickyT23 [82.25.182.231] on 2009/11/05 02:22:55
I dont really understand how the tool was made.
I mean what is .NET framework, cause I dont know if the tool uses anything like that or even anything different or what-haveyou.
Its pretty weird that it dont work for you.
I have loads of hlwads on my HDD.
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview...
If you would like me to mail you any of them I will do happily :D
Drew
#9149 posted by ijed [190.20.110.244] on 2009/11/05 02:33:12
I get the same error. No solution yet.
BobbbyBob, post a screenshot - map data could help, but it sounds like you've got something badly configured somewhere in WC.
The screenshot will clarify the problem.
Ijed, Drew ...
#9150 posted by Baker [69.223.180.88] on 2009/11/05 04:41:06
"Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\id_base ...""
Are either of you using Vista or Windows 7?
The qconverge command line utility expects to be able to write to the folder it is in.
And come to think of it, the QuakeAdapter expects to be able to create a .bat file to execute.
I know with Vista the idea of having write-access to any given place isn't exactly a certainty.
I'm Using Valve Hammer Editor
#9151 posted by spy [95.56.31.165] on 2009/11/05 08:16:28
and converting txtures via texmex, don't have a texture problems at all,
maybe it's time to switch to hammer editor to you guys? ;)
Yeah
#9152 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/11/05 13:44:38
Vista. It occurred to me that the security crap is most likely blocking the thing from working. Turning it off spams error messages so I was about to try converting in a 'non-secure' (aka 'non-fucked') folder last night but got caught up in something else.
A Little Insight In How The VIS Process Works
#9153 posted by negke [88.70.239.28] on 2009/11/05 14:28:03
Might be helpful to some for a better understanding why things sometimes take so long.
Courtesy of BJP:
OK, this is just my interpretation of how vis works, it may not be correct.
Apart from its normal bsp building from the map, qbsp also generates the portal (prt) file. This is done by dividing all the empty volumes (player space) in the map into smaller pieces, called vis leafs. The more complex solid architecture, the more leafs you get.
These leafs are just convex polyhedrons (like brushes) with at least four sides (the simplest pyramid). All the sides of the leafs are the vis portals ("doors between leafs"), but I'm not sure if the sides against the solids are also counted or it's just the sides between the leafs.
When calculating visibility, all these leafs have to be checked against each other to determine which ones that are visible from a certain leaf through all of its portals. It's assumed that the player can be in any of the leafs (no matter how small they are) and look in any direction.
To make things worse, visibility is checked twice for each portal, one in each direction (back and forth). I don't know why this is.
It should be noted that this "leaf visibility" calculation is a simplified variant of the more realistic point-to-point visibility, which would probably take even longer time since the position granularity is higher. The leaf visibility method also increases engine overdraw, i.e. it'll have to render stuff even if it's actually occluded, thereby increasing r_speeds.
Since all leafs have to be checked against each other, this is a variant of [at least] an "n x n" (n being # portals) problem, which will scale very badly as n grows. This is the main reason why more complex maps take so extremely long to fullvis.
In fastvis, vis first makes some simple analysis and determines which leafs that can be trivially rejected as being invisible and all others are marked as "potentially visible", i.e. need more calculations using fullvis. If you just run a fastvis, all the potentially visible leafs will be rendered by the engine as visible, slowing things down. When building a map to be fullvis-time-effective, it's probably vital that fastvis can trivially reject as much as possible.
In fullvis, vis goes on to the significantly more complex algorithm, where it "flows" through all the potentially visible paths, checking if there's a way through. This work is divided so the simpler paths are calculated first, since they will probably be used in the more convoluted paths later. This is the main reason why vis slows down so much while running, it has left all the heavy parts for later.
The division also lets vis manage the multithreaded aspect by having several threads doing different paths (but still the simpler ones first). I can't say though if it's guaranteed that all simpler paths have been done by all threads when the more complex ones are about to begin. In my version (and most others), that's a non-issue, since the paths are all done sequentially by one thread in the right order.
With increasing # leafs and portals (which you can read at the beginning of the prt file), you can probably realize that the amount of calculations grows very quickly. 100 portals will generate 40,000 "work items", for 1,000 portals it'll be 4,000,000, 10,000 portals is 400,000,000 and so on. I don't want to think about 100,000 portals ...
Re Light Problem
#9154 posted by BobbbyBob [91.34.232.129] on 2009/11/05 23:40:17
Hi thanks for the answers.
Ricky, here are the screenshots and compile logs.
http://rapidshare.com/files/302918...
With light.exe -dist 0.6 -range 0.6 -light 15 -soft it's like no rad / fullbright.
But I didnt' know that you can configure the light.exe thanks for that info MadDog. Maybe someone know how to set my light settings right.If not, i will put some more light enities and a higher brightness value in my maps. This will work i think...
The lighting in the compiled originals quake maps have irritated me.
OK, Weird.
#9155 posted by RickyT23 [82.25.182.231] on 2009/11/06 00:12:14
Well I need that actual light entity information, you have sent me the information for somebrushes with a light texture on them.
The light entities will be at the bottom of the document (the .map file that is) and will look like:
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "200"
}
As for the command line options well I would use (for a map the size you have) -extra4 and nothing else.
But yeah you can use a "wait" key in your entities to make the light spread out further or be more concentrated.
A wait of >1 will make the light more concentrated, i.e.
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "400"
"wait" "2.5"
"origin" "blah, blah, blah"
}
And a wait of <1 will make it go further, i.e.
{
"classname" "light"
"light" "200"
"wait" "0.3"
"origin" "blah, blah, blah"
}
You can also use "delay", but Im no expert on that one. I seem to remember delay of 2 being nice effect.
The Screenshot Solves It
#9156 posted by ijed [190.20.110.244] on 2009/11/06 02:08:09
That's a door that's fullblack? If it a door or other entity (func_wall or whatever) then it fullblack because the origin is outside of the world.
This means that it doesn't start inside the vis'd (lit) space.
Select it, the red X in the centre is the origin - if that's outside of the lit space (inside a wall, like yours seems to be) then the whole thing won't be lit at all. So make a recess for it to fit into or make it smaller so the origin is inside the world.
It's worth remembering that although entities look like they're normally brushwork in many ways they behave like point entities.
In other words, they only care about where their origin is when it comes to light and vis.
S S
#9157 posted by ijed [190.20.110.244] on 2009/11/06 02:10:42
Those were missing from the above post.
Also 'brush entities' as opposed to 'entities'.
Having a baby is the greatest thing in the world, but your head is all over the place for lack of sleep.
. . . And
#9158 posted by ijed [190.20.110.244] on 2009/11/06 02:15:14
Its an optimisation (AFAIK) of AguirRe's that the compilers don't light all brush entities no matter where they are, like id's did.
Definately a plus, but also shows another b0rky map feature common in the originals.
Mind you, very easy to be aloof ten years+ after the fact.
.
#9159 posted by BobbbyBob [91.34.242.117] on 2009/11/06 19:51:34
Thanks for the help! The last post is what i wanted to know. I found it weird that the original quake maps had different lighting when starting in Worldcraft. Thought it was a problem in my Worldcraft configuration or something.But that explains it all.
And i am not sure if you notice that the in_game_screenshot.JPG was a screenshot of the original E1M1.bsp not mine small testing maps.
Anyway Big thanks!
Yeah
#9160 posted by ijed [190.20.72.67] on 2009/11/06 20:40:08
That's why I said that AguirRe (who's compilers come bundled with the wc3.3 adapter) made optimisations that id didn't.
If you used their compilers it'd work without showing the door black but take alot longer. and run very slightly slower in game I think as well.
Congrats Ijed!
#9161 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/07 13:08:04
you lucky father and happy mother.
apparently the same goes for a good map:
Having a map is the greatest thing in the world, but your head is all over the place for lack of exit.
Thanks
#9162 posted by ijed [190.20.72.67] on 2009/11/07 13:36:15
silver_key-gold_key-exit.
change-feed-sleep.
Now that's a nerd comparison.
Pak File Programs
#9163 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/14 20:46:27
PakExplorer: 'explorer' type view, limited to 8 character filenames. sucks.
PakScape: 'explorer' type view, not limited to 8 character filenames. converts all upper case chars to lower case and progs.dat is case sensitive. sucks.
DZip: not limited to 8 chars. doesn't change char case from upper to lower. is NOT an 'explorer' type view, just a long list of crap so very difficult to organize pak files. (as it's primarily for zipping demos anyway).
sucks.
are there any other pak file programs? one that doesn't limit file chars to 8 or change the case around and that has a proper way of displaying files so as to be able to organize things well?
Heh
#9164 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.164] on 2009/11/14 21:47:57
That is one thing QuArK can do very well.
#9165 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2009/11/14 21:52:39
there is a pak plug-in for total commander. It satisfies my needs for exploring pak files.
#9166 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/14 22:26:02
i was under the impression that both of those could only open and extract files from paks?
#9167 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.164] on 2009/11/14 23:15:04
Nope, QuArK let's you save just fine.
#9168 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2009/11/14 23:28:34
I have just tested and the tc plugin is creating pak's as well. Very straightforward
Necros
#9169 posted by negke [88.70.235.179] on 2009/11/14 23:47:05
Pakker
#9170 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/15 02:27:38
thanks :) i wasn't able to check myself today.
wasn't able to find pakker though, but i should be able to use quark as i've already got that.
Pakker
#9171 posted by negke [88.70.62.63] on 2009/11/15 09:52:59
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Wad Problems
#9172 posted by meTch [69.183.59.241] on 2009/11/18 02:06:02
so, i made a few pathetic textures and im trying to get texmex to put them in a wad, like i did once before i think, but now when ever i try to import it gives me "was ignored" on all the textures
the textures are in .bmp format and i believe they are 8 bit color
...i don't get it any clues?
#9173 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/18 02:38:55
i remember that happening, and don't really recall why it did, but i'm pretty sure if you convert your bitmaps into 24bit targas, the problem should go away.
it might have to do with the 8bit bitmaps not having the correct palette (it's not enough for it to be 256 colours, it has to be the correct 256 colours).
#9174 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/11/18 02:42:14
Are the bitmaps compressed? That might be it.
Copy
#9175 posted by ijed [190.20.97.210] on 2009/11/18 04:33:52
Your texture, then 'paste image as new mip' in TexMex.
Ok Thanks
#9176 posted by meTch [69.183.59.241] on 2009/11/18 05:30:26
those both worked :D
... i don't know how to compress bitmaps so i dont think i can decompress them :S
Brush Heaps
#9177 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/21 18:56:28
I'm working on a terrain map. I use triangle shapes to lift the corners to equal heights and then use force to grid 1 to fit the brush.
Sometimes the brush takes the grid on a counter line and it is possible to move the brush back into its original position, gaining a clean, converted brush.
Othertimes it gets out of grid and causes the vieuw to get out of position.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/align...
The first method , without forcing to grid, brings a well compiled map with errors, caused by the compiler with warnings and heling points. But a fitting brush order.
The second , with force to grid and reposition, brings a misaligned map with less errors and a better compile log, and a rather blurry brush fit.
How to avoid the process and which would be best suitable?
I never minded thes misalignements, I'm already glad the compiler takes it. But then again, the small difference could change vistime considerably.
#9178 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/21 20:48:25
when i make terrain in qe3, i just do my terrain mapping in 3d view after copying and pasting all the triangular shaped brushes i need.
i keep the grid on 16 (or 8 if i need fine details) and just pull individual vertices up or down depending on what i need in the 3d view.
this usually creates good results for me.
Actually
#9179 posted by Jago [84.249.95.211] on 2009/11/21 21:37:10
It would be really ace if editors allowed you to select say, 4 brushes and lock 4 vertices which all interleap with a simple keyboard shortcut, then you just drag the locked vertices into the appropriate position as one, and then "ungroup" them.
Yeah
#9180 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/21 22:46:13
or when you rotate a group of brushes. why do editors persist in snapping vertices to different points when they were initially sharing the same one...
also, why does firefox keep underlining 'vertices' like i'm spelling it wrong. what a bastard.
Heaps
#9181 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/22 18:23:45
As I read, I think my failure is caused by using the 1 grid option in force to grid. It turns out to become a disordered 0.x grid position that hardly can be healed.
I Dont Know How You Managed To Find Such A Problem
#9182 posted by RickyT23 [82.3.83.224] on 2009/11/22 19:29:51
Which editor do you use? I forget.....
#9183 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/22 19:40:37
your terrain generator program should automatically snap to grid too, so i don't know why it would change again if you snap to grid in the editor.
Snap To 1...
#9184 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.191.207] on 2009/11/23 00:18:46
... it could be that, unless you are zoomed into the maximum, your manipulation on the different brushes is just not lining up and not that it is actually off-grid.
I would not go below 8 for snapping unless I was trying to fit the terrain to an object that was not on the same grid reference, and then I would definitely zoom right in.
I use BspEditor and can zoom to 1600%. At that level it needs a very distinct mouse movement to move one unit and snapping acurately is easy. At the standard zoom (75%) it is impossible to line up brushwork in single unit movements even though the editor is 'snapping'.
Grid Account
#9185 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/23 13:34:22
I use Quark63. It took quiet long before I could sahape a terrain map.
I don't use a terraineditor. Maybe a silly way I come up with.
I started with a triangle brush. Made it as precise I could. As long nothing happens to the brush it stands on grid with integers.
Then I turn the grid to 1 and force the outcorners to the 1 grid point. Of course the origin of the brush gets disordered so I have to force the whole brush into grid again.
That's my startpoint with terrain mapping and it compiled well.
Now I can make a terrainmap of all the triangle brushes. All goes well untill I lift the outpoints of the brush to level it with another brush.
From there the two outcomes appear in Quark.
Some brushes after distorted flip to a decimal but after resizing the brush with 1 the force to grid puts it exact 1 gridpoint aside. So I can easily rearange it untill it fits its origin.
Others get distorted and will never line up with the others. They will fit on x and y-axe but not in the lenght.
So I was thinking. Maybe I shoul force to grid only on a 8 or 16 grid.
#9186 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.222] on 2009/11/23 14:53:04
The wonders of QuArK. This is just normal behaviour from my experience...
Terrain
#9187 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2009/11/23 15:15:05
I am no terrain expert and it is difficult to make suggestions without knowing what you are trying to achieve. But... if you are doing anything on a large scale, then use a terrain generator and do all (most) of the modelling in that and then import it into the editor.
I did a large lump of terrain in FMB-BDG in the form of a cavern. It was over 1000 units in each direction made up a few thousand triangles of 64 units. It took about 30 minutes to do in the generator - I dread to think what it would have taken in the editor.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178...
You can probably make it out in this screenshot.
When I had finished, I ran the BspEditor Brush Merge and got it down to about 900 brushes (from memory).
Well I Use The Folloing Method:
#9188 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.237.173] on 2009/11/23 17:54:10
1 - select the brush tool, set it to "wedge" shaped (triangular prism)
2 - select a suitable texture
3 - quicky make about 4 or 5 wedge shaped brushes
4 - in the "top" view I use the vertex editing tool to move the corners of the brushes into whatever shape I want, usually on a grid not smaller than 16x16
5 - I switch to a "side" view and move the verticle edges of the prisms up and down to shape my terrain
Notes:
Nothing ever goes off grid. The editor is set to "snap to grid" and whatever the grid size may be, the points of my brushes snap to them.
Aligning the textures better is as easy as selecting my brushes and setting the attributes back to 0 (i.e. rotation, movement x, movement y, x scale, y scale), then click a button which says "to world", which tends to look OK.
You can use this method to make overhanging rocks and other intricate shapes.
It is quite time consuming but looks good in the end!
Terrain
#9189 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.191.207] on 2009/11/23 20:36:05
I've just checked that old map and the cavern is 3000 x 3000 x 800 high.
.
#9190 posted by PuLSaR [94.246.126.58] on 2009/11/24 11:48:20
Is there anything similar to aquire's engine for q2? I was messing with q2 map, just made the first area, nothing special so far, 2 entities (start and light), but when i load it to the engine, the game just freezes and i see q2 using 99% of cpu. Wtf?
#9191 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/11/24 19:56:40
i couldn't get the standard q2 engine to run either. there's quake2 xp and quake2 evolved that i know of.
#9192 posted by PuLSaR [94.246.126.58] on 2009/11/24 21:16:41
Quake2 envolved doesn't run it either
I Want To Know
#9193 posted by meTch [69.183.40.161] on 2009/11/27 16:12:22
but i dont want to peruse 9192 posts for the answer
how do you make monsters not move or attack even with the player right in front?
i tired clip brushes and making secret trigger button but those didn't work :?
#9194 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/11/27 16:15:46
Put them inside a func_wall made out of clip brushes, but whose corners (BBOX extents) have a tiny normal brush inside.
Those normal brushes tell Quake that the clip brushes are there.
Then remove the func_wall when you want them to be active.
Never actually tried it, but should work.
Hmm
#9195 posted by meTch [69.183.40.161] on 2009/11/27 16:53:36
are the non clip brushes supposed to be in the Func_wall or out of it, because it dosent work when there in it and when they're out i get this error:
*** ERROR 13: Line 2131: Entity with no valid brushes or textures
1 warning
Elapsed time : 0:00
Peak memory used : 1.8 MB
!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!-!!...
Build failed, because it did not create the (+BSP) file: C:\Users\alex\Desktop\q
uake\tmpQuArK\.\maps\mstart.BSP
#9196 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/11/27 19:16:43
That's why he said to include a tiny, real brush somewhere within the func_wall entity. Quake won't complain if you have at least something in the entity with a texture on it. Hide it in the map itself by making sure it's inside of a wall or something.
Yep
#9197 posted by ijed [190.20.102.178] on 2009/11/28 01:47:37
Circular Jump Pads
#9198 posted by negke [88.70.246.204] on 2009/11/28 16:31:38
Remember those wicked jumppads in some Q3 maps that had you fly in a curve? The same is possible in Quake. Pretty obvious, but I only just thought of it again.
Take a look at this test map: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
The trick basically involves pushing the player towards a curved clip surface that determines the direction of the flight. The clip curve has to be fairly smooth so the player doesn't fall down prematurely. In the test map the small jump (1/4 of a circle) has 8 faces, the large one (3/4 of a circle) has 24. The map is pretty crude (but you'll get the idea) - it takes some experimenting with the pitch angle and the push speed. The larger such a push is (radius and distance), the uglier it becomes, because the clip wall and the pitch have to be a lot higher.
Now there aren't really that many situations where such a push would be useful. Imagine perhaps a castle with push-connected towers. Or a deathmatch map, although then one has to take into cosideration that NQ and QW handle the speed values in different ways.
At any rate, such a push can at least make for some funny wheee! effects.
Hmm
#9199 posted by nonentity [81.141.21.25] on 2009/11/28 20:12:31
What about making a map where you fly along wind tunnels between different rooms and use keys to unlock new tunnels? Mebe with some water. And in brown...
Like...
#9200 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/11/29 12:58:50
... antedeluvian map ?
QuArK And Changing Entities
#9201 posted by meTch [72.10.122.69] on 2009/11/30 19:13:37
i has...have these new stuff in my progs that need entities placements on the map, but im finding that when i add an entitiy like ambient_drone i can't changeit, to something like ambient_front242. but i remeber doing it before somehow :S
the only solution i have is to edit it in the .map with a text editor but i find this somewhat of an out of the way solution
...i wonder if this makes sense
Or
#9202 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/30 21:06:59
why don't you just add the entity,
click on the object list,
and change your classname to monster_xxx?
Oh...your Progs.dat
#9203 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/11/30 21:08:14
search and replace function?
Ya You Had It
#9204 posted by meTch [64.148.30.24] on 2009/11/30 21:23:45
quark won't let me change classnames and i don't know why is what i meant with that paragraph and a half
and its kind of annoying because i could do it before i think
#9205 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.147] on 2009/11/30 22:13:09
QuArK lets you change classnames easily. Either slow double left click in the tree or edit in the detail view.
State File Does Not Match Portal File
#9206 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/12/03 09:44:16
A VIS error I could not find any documentation about. Does anyone here know what it means ?
It's a real error, not just a warning, no VIS is preformed.
Ron:
#9207 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2009/12/03 09:57:30
probably vis is trying to finish a partially-completed job, but you've changed the bsp since then. I think you'd just need to delete the state file, but i don't know what the filename would be (never used that feature myself.)
#9208 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2009/12/03 11:18:38
I didn't know about this feature at all.
Anyway, reading your reply made try and just rename the map,that worked ! Thanks !
I've just switched to the WC 3.33 version so I might come back with some dumb questions later ...
Surpsisingly...
#9209 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2009/12/03 17:23:27
... aguirRe's tool tip does not mention this error :/
State File
#9210 posted by roblot [216.106.106.51] on 2009/12/04 03:06:34
I think you just have to delete the vis file to that map your compiling and aguirre's vis will make a new one. I get this while updating and changing texture names in a wad file.
Monster Count
#9211 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/12/06 18:15:50
While betatesting my level I came up to some errors I forgot how to avoid them.
First there's the monster count eror. I assumed they were caused by the fish, with its double swimmonster_start in the qc. Strangley it didn't help help deleting it, because I still get a double fish count.
Second is the strange habbit of some zombies.
Their heads seems to run on while being killed, which is rarely difficult to trace while they're in slime.
I got the effect earlier with bones. I can't find a reason for it.
Breakable Crates
#9212 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/07 19:43:50
Do I remember breakable (not exploding) crates for Q1?
If so, does anyone know where I can get the qc/mdls from, if available?
Quoth's Got Breakable Crates...
#9213 posted by generic [67.233.160.181] on 2009/12/08 00:33:23
Mounds don't :-)
Extras
#9214 posted by ijed [190.20.80.78] on 2009/12/08 01:35:51
Supports as well - Quoth's are simpler to use though.
Crates
#9215 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/08 08:05:55
Quoth code not been released so I'll look at Extras
See If There's Been An Update On The Source Chode Thread
#9216 posted by ijed [190.20.80.78] on 2009/12/08 13:57:25
Ahem.
What extras has is model swapping and emissions. So you can swap a mesh in the map for a broken one (external bsp) and spawn a spray of emissions at the same time - these can be sprites, models or other external bsps.
It's not really tied up into a ease of use package though - you'd need a few seperate entities for it to work.
Although
#9217 posted by ijed [190.20.80.78] on 2009/12/08 13:58:19
Emissions are well worth having - a very powerful tool.
Mike
#9218 posted by ijed [190.20.79.26] on 2009/12/09 16:56:54
Do you want our source? It's got extras inside, but also alot of other stuff. We're not supporting it (heavily commented) though, so you're probably better off with base extras.
Ijed
#9219 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/11 21:59:38
I appreciate the offer but I really only wanted breakablecrates for one specific event and it would have been easy to add it into my own modified progs.dat. Also, I don't want to go the effort of creating the models and things.
I'll just have to think of another option.
#9220 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/12/11 22:04:17
mike, what's your email address? you don't have it listed here.
Necros
#9221 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/12 09:05:23
mikewoodham at msn dot com
Funny, I've been coming here since the one before but never actually 'joined'.
I'm Looking For A
#9222 posted by spy [89.218.12.13] on 2009/12/12 11:17:41
mapconv by SleewalkR
any links?
Necros
#9223 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/13 11:53:30
Oooops...
I just realised that the e-mail sender will show as Dooby Pollocks instead of me, so your filters may think it is spam.
Hehe
#9224 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/12/13 18:48:54
it wasn't caught as spam, but it did confuse me for a second. :P
Bspinfo
#9225 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/12/14 03:27:15
what are the references to see if a bsp is vised level 4?
Or
#9226 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/12/15 17:58:17
is it a stupid question?
Is That Bspinfo.exe ?
#9227 posted by roblot [216.106.106.168] on 2009/12/15 18:57:42
How do you run this program? I never used it yet.
Its A Comand Line Utility
#9228 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.53.24] on 2009/12/15 19:06:39
So stick your bspinfo.exe and your bsp file in some folder on your c:, take a command prompt into that dir and type:
bspinfo mapname
Cant remember if it tells what level vis was run at, but it definately tells you the size of the visdata
Okay Thanks
#9229 posted by roblot [216.106.106.168] on 2009/12/15 19:30:54
Will look into it
Madfox
#9230 posted by roblot [216.106.106.168] on 2009/12/15 19:38:43
I didn't see any -level 4 confirmation in bspinfo.exe, but while vis.exe is running you should see:
testlevel = 4
...and you'll have it!
Yes
#9231 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/12/16 05:03:05
bspinfo formally gives the same info that has bsplog.txt has, only there's no map to compile.
I wondered if there was a way to see how a level was vised.
There Is:
#9232 posted by negke [88.70.226.79] on 2009/12/16 10:00:41
r_showtris
Fine
#9233 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2009/12/17 03:28:25
that's what I was looking for.
Spy:
#9234 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/12/20 20:25:02
I found Sleepy's Java Mapconverter in the devkit of tigger's unfinished "industri" project. Link:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net...
Quite a useful tool, that.
Oh, and about breakables: Nehahra had breakables, lots of them. You can trigger em, give em health, have them throw many kinds of rubble, etc. func_breakable, func_sobject, and func_mindcrime were the classes, iirc. Amazingly I still have the Neh QuakeC source in a folder. Since Planetquake now sleeps with the Rotfishes, I'll up it somewhere (quaketastic), if anyone wants it. It looks extremely old (dated 2001) so I doubt Mindcrime would mind.
But
#9235 posted by ijed [190.20.81.105] on 2009/12/21 02:04:45
they can't be walked on, only downside.
Grahf
#9236 posted by spy [92.47.228.14] on 2009/12/21 06:18:16
thank you.
Grahf
#9237 posted by Mike Woodham [86.179.29.195] on 2009/12/21 23:47:17
I would be interested in the source for Nehahra - if you can let me know when you are uploading it, I will watch out.
Here We Go
#9238 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/12/22 04:26:12
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Glad that my obsessive packrat tendencies came in handy.
Huh
#9239 posted by ijed [190.20.108.153] on 2009/12/22 04:34:34
Didn't know it had been released.
Ah
#9240 posted by ijed [190.20.108.153] on 2009/12/22 04:35:58
It's pascal, I remember the dev tool stuff.
Can it be c+p'd into regular Qc? Not enough of a coder to know.
There Is A Readme File In There
#9241 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/12/22 04:46:12
And it says:
More than a year after the release of Nehahra, I am releasing the "QuakeC" source code to Nehahra. I have placed QuakeC in quotes because it is not what you would call true QuakeC, but a Pascal-Hybrid. The compiler/decompiler was created by Armin Rigo, a set of utilities called ACCQC.
I have included in this archive REACC.EXE, which will compile a progs.dat from the .QC files. The error messages are in French. Sorry. :)
So yeah. Good luck with that, guys. Pretty sure this came from planetquake.com/nehahra at some point in the distant past.
GTKradiant + Darkplaces
#9242 posted by Protocol01 [68.14.171.81] on 2009/12/24 20:03:21
Hello all,
I've been itching to create a map using the darkplaces engine, and since gtkradiant 1.5 has this option available 'out of the box' I went ahead and used this instead of Worldcraft 3.3.
I can compile a map and run it no problem, but here is my dilemma:
Not all of the textures load into gtkradiant. I've downloaded and installed the
rygel-dp-texturepack-high.pk3 and it is installed to:
C:\Program Files\Quake\Id1
The textures show up fine in darkplaces and in dpmod but only a certain few are showing up
in gtkradiant, and it is only like 5 or so that show up.
Can someone please provide me with specific directions on how to get all the textures to
load or show up in gtkradiant 1.5?
If I have to, I would be willing to use an older version of gtkradiant as long as I had
specific directions on how to set up darkplaces in it.
Thanking you in advance,
Protocol01
Doesnt
#9243 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.58.193] on 2009/12/25 05:10:24
Doesnt Radiant require a .WAD file in order to view the textures? Rygels pack would be irrelevant especially in the instance of any editor because the textures which are "replaced" and "upgraded" by that pack all come from the originals which came from the WAD format used to create Quake.
The bottom line is that if you dont have the Quake wad file loaded into your editor then you wont be able to compile maps with all of the textures available from Quake.
The wads are somewhere within:
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
probably quake.wad or quake1.wad
The ting is there are loads of wads there for the Quake engine, and may have not been "re-made" by someone and have no hi-rez replacement. But that shouldnt meen you shouldnt use them because you can achieve many different themes with these wads and you dont have to worry that they wont load up in the end user's engine of choice. If you wanna use mega-hi-rez textures then use Source or Cryengine or Unreal Engine 3 or IdTech4 or something.......
[rant]
Merry Christmas BTW ;)
#9244 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.58.193] on 2009/12/25 05:12:56
i think its http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/id.... that you need to load into your Radiant editor to work
bare in mind I have never used that editor, I always used Worldcraft, but I would have thought that this form of texture handling would be fundamental
Matter Of Preference, Sorta
#9245 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/12/25 06:17:15
Personally I find GTKRadiant 1.5 to be stupid and terrible, whereas version 1.4 is excellent. As you have discovered, Protocol01, 1.5 has a real problem loading external texture sets. I don't know why. If you had Quake 1 .wads, then they should in fact load from the id1 directory.
Version 1.4 cannot natively load .wads but it has no problem with TGA's and JPG's. Seriously, try exactly what you were doing except using 1.4 and you'll probably have no problem.
Have a look at this guide for a reference on setting up Radiant for Q1:
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
Hmm, Ricky is probably right though, that you need to texture your map with the original quake101.wad. Then if there are TGA textures in the appropriate game directory with the same name as ones in the map's BSP, they will be replaced at runtime. The BSP needs those texture names and coordinates so it knows what to replace, and the ones from rygel's pack are far too big to fit into the bsp anyway.
Unless... what exactly do you mean by "mapping for darkplaces?" This has always kinda confused me. Which features and game are you trying to use? Cuz if you were trying to use Q3 or HL bsp support, then a lot of what I just said would be irrelevant.
#9246 posted by [68.14.171.81] on 2009/12/25 23:15:34
Thank you RickyT23 and thank you Grahf both for helping me. I guess I just assumed that radiant would have been able to read directly from the pk3 file, I didn't know I was going to have to have the .wad file. I see now that mapping for Quake 1 is VERY different than mapping for quake 3 arena. >.<
As for darkplaces, I mean that I was trying to make a Quake 1 map that could be used with the darkplaces engine.
I will try what you all suggested and go from there, thanks again and Merry Christmas all!
Let Me Explain Things A Little Further
#9247 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2009/12/26 23:23:08
GTKRadiant 1.4 has a variety of game packs for Q3-engined games, but none for Q1. In the guide I linked to in my previous post, what you are basically doing is building a Q1 game pack from scratch and script files to trick the editor. The single most important change is in the .game file, "default_scale=1" instead of .5 as is used in Q3. You still don't get .wad loading, so you export that to jpg/tga and load those instead. Then after making a map, you run the .map through a map converter to get it into Q1 .map format so that your compile tools can read it. It's all kind of a hack, and adds several extra steps to the mapping process, but it does work.
Radiant absolutely can read and load .pk3's from the base game directory, assuming the directory structure is laid out like Q3's. This is how Radiant loads external textures and models, after all.
GTKRadiant 1.5 changed all this by using a totally different (xml-based) file format for the scripts, game packs, map format, etc. There is a Quake 1 game pack, which allows for .wad loading, but I think how it works is that if you are in this mode, it will not load jpg/tga textures. Also, GTKRadiant 1.5 is just a crappier editor generally, that messed up the clipping modes, vertex editing, and brush manipulation compared to the glorious perfection of version 1.4. Gee, I'm not biased at all, am I.
If all this sounds horribly roundabout and complicated (and it kinda is), there is a simpler way. A Q1-specific version of Radiant, developed by Sikkpin, that is based on the original opensourced QE4 editor that id used to make Quake 2. So basically you get all the goodness of oldschool Radiant style, with native Q1 .wad loading support and none of the added cruft like curve patches that is useless for Q1 editing.
Link should be somewhere in this thread:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Something else you might look into is guides on Nexuiz mapping, which uses the Darkplaces engine. Nexuiz mappers use a fork of Radiant called "NetRadiant," and I don't really know how it's different because I've never used it. However I do know Nezuiz maps usually have externally loaded jpg/tga textures, so you could probably find some info in that community on how to make sure they show up in a map, which directory to put them in, etc.
#9248 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2009/12/27 00:22:05
Gee, I'm not biased at all, am I.
you may be biased, but you aren't alone.
the 1.5 interface is overall slower and clunkier requiring more keypresses to achieve the same goal as in 1.4.
i believe the intent behind the 1.5 changes was to make it more like a professional 3d package. ironically, i felt the changes moved it farther away (i use 3ds max).
#9249 posted by Protocol01 [68.14.171.81] on 2009/12/30 18:22:17
Grahf,
Thank you for the link and information. It was very insightful. I hope to get radiant setup soon.
Radiant 1.5 really sucks in my opinion, they keep messing up all of the features and usefulness, now it is more complicated to get things done, and I'm going to uninstall it and just use an older version.
Thanks guys.
Willem
#9250 posted by Jago [84.249.95.211] on 2009/12/30 23:15:12
Any idea what magic do I have to do to get UnrealED (for UT3) to properly take advantage of 4 cores on my new i5 750 rig? For some reason, it only ever seems to use just 1 (even when doing a level build) and I am absolutely sure I read that UnrealED does scale well with multiple cores.
#9251 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2009/12/31 00:02:46
It scales to multiple cores during lighting rebuilds via Lightmass but UT3 doesn't support that. UDK would though...
Hammer 3.4 And ATI Fixed? Maybe
#9252 posted by Mechtech [24.88.245.169] on 2009/12/31 20:42:39
Have an ATI Radeon HD 2400 Series. So have the no select in 3D window bug with Hammer 3.4.
Just gave the new ATI driver a try. ATI Catalyst 9.12 Driver XP x64. Seems to be working.
Refreshing Mapping Skills...
#9253 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/01 15:01:24
Wow, I never thought the quake mapping community was still kicking. I've decided to finish my old quake1 DM level which has been sitting on my HD since early 2003. It's a great and pleasant surprise to see there are still enthusiasts to share mapping experiance with :D
Anyway, as I'm trying to relearn everything I've stumbled across an issue. I cannot get the teleporter to work. Everything seems to be correct but I get this error message when loading the level.
Object error in info_teleport_destination:
No targetname
In the map file I have:
Target_teleporter
Target tele1
and
Info_teleport_destination
Targetname tele1
I use GTK radiant 1.2.x something and Sleepwalkers mapconv tool.
Any ideas?
And a happy new year to all of you :D
I Think Its
#9254 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.58.193] on 2010/01/01 15:36:12
"classname" "trigger_teleport"
"target" "XXXXX"
Also...
#9255 posted by metlslime [166.205.138.54] on 2010/01/01 21:59:42
Make sure it's all lowercase
Got It...
#9256 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/02 19:30:53
Human error this time :P
Thanks for the replys.
And while I'm at it I might just throw you another question :) I want to make a lift that travels up only when a button is pressed. I get everything to work, but the lift starts behaving differently when connecting the func_button to the func_plat obj. Without the button connected the lift starts in "down" mode and raises when a player walks over it. However, when the button is connected the lift starts in the "up" mode. Then goes down when I trigger the button. AND after that it starts behaving as if it wasnt connected to the button. wtf?!
Any help here would be appreciated. I know it's possible to do this :) For example it works in the "Pinion1" map.
Thanks again guys.
Ziffon
#9257 posted by spy [95.56.18.218] on 2010/01/02 20:16:04
you have to use func_door instead, not a func_plat
Yeah
#9258 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.58.193] on 2010/01/02 21:09:52
You have to have a door which travels "up", cant remember the exact map file key/value of the top of my head.
You can have it travel a negatve or positive value "up" to 256 or 512 units. And theres a spawnflag for "toggle" (1 press, door opens, another press it will close). An you can link as many buttons or triggers to it as you like :D
*theres A Maximum Value
#9259 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.58.193] on 2010/01/02 21:10:40
its either 256 or 512 - thats what I meant
Huh?
#9260 posted by negke [88.70.75.49] on 2010/01/02 21:16:26
A door can move as far as you want - there is no maximum value. The distance is determined by its "lip" value.
Fixed!
#9261 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/02 21:43:57
thx for the quick response mate.
Sorry for spamming the board but any ideas on why I cant get the quad to spawn in? I use the "item_artifact_super_damage&q...
Also, while I'm at it.. the map is pretty much ready for some testing. Back in the days it was pretty easy to get some help with that, but how do you suggest I go about it today. Can I use this board somehow?
Cheers
Yeah
#9262 posted by spy [95.56.18.218] on 2010/01/02 21:51:47
to quad to appear, item_artifact_super_damage must be placed. w/o any SF
btw, is it your maps safe1 and safe2?
#9263 posted by negke [88.70.75.49] on 2010/01/02 21:53:04
The item ist most likely too close to a wall or the ceiling (has to be 60 units) and thus falls out of the level. Load the map in developer mode ("developer 1" in the console) and you'll see a warning message if that's the case.
If you're looking for beta testers, post a note in the Screenshots & Betas thread.
#9264 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/02 22:03:46
Spy: what do you mean with w/o SF?
Yes, I made safe1 and 2 and 3 is pretty much done now as well :P
Oh, developer mode :) Didn't know about that one. Going to try it out now.
Developer Mode Rocks :D
#9265 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/02 22:10:53
Thx, that really helped! Found a DM spawn point outside the level which for some reason caused the quad to not spawn.. odd.. but it works now :D
Beta Ready
#9266 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/01/02 23:38:07
well, beta is ready now :) Thanks for all the quick responses. I'll make a post on the beta board later.
Code Question
#9267 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/01/09 15:11:10
So say you had a bunch of quad damages in the room. Currently, they will all rotate exactly the same direction and start at the same angle so they are all perfectly in sync.
Is there a way in QuakeC to start them at random angles or change the rotation speed or do anything, really, to break it up and make it look more natural?
Randomiser
#9268 posted by Preach [94.169.109.218] on 2010/01/09 15:20:39
I'd add
self.angles_y = random() * 360;
to the spawn function. This would randomise the angle they face initially, which should make them look better differentiated.
You could also set .movetype to MOVETYPE_NOCLIP and then give them an angular velocity:
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NOCLIP;
self.avelocity_y = 10 - 20 * random();
I wouldn't recommend this though, because it entirely eliminates the benefit of the client-side rotation built into the model. You'll have constant network updates of the rotation, which seems a bit excessive for the feature. So I'd vote for option 1, but that's how either could be achieved .
#9269 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/01/09 16:09:22
"self.angles_y = random() * 360; "
Well, I tried that but no luck. I also tried putting that into a one shot think function that executed a second after spawning but that didn't work either. I'm currently thinking that the model is being rotated in the cached model itself and then every time it renders, they all pull from that same value or something?
#9270 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/01/09 16:09:54
I should note that I've created a new item using the quad damage model so it's not the ACTUAL quad damage that I'm dealing with here. If that matters...
Interesting
#9271 posted by Preach [94.169.109.218] on 2010/01/09 16:31:11
Looks like the rotate flag overrides whatever angle you set in qc or the map. The only alternatives are either to remove the rotate flag from the model, and do the rotation using self.avelocity, or to create several frames within the model each with different rotations of the model, and randomise between those frames on spawn.
#9272 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/01/09 16:50:19
Bah! OK, thanks. :)
Stupid
#9273 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/01/10 16:01:39
Installed Quake on an old win98 computer.
A little curious I couldn't get higher video resolution then 320 x480.
So I decided to install the update 1.08 but this didn't help.
So I installed the SOA pak to see, which also didn't help.
Then Fitzquake or glquake but they start up like mud.
How do I get my quake off the phone resolution?
#9274 posted by rudl [84.112.184.94] on 2010/01/10 17:38:44
the update 1.08 is dos only
get the 1.06
Try winquake?
Limited Resolution
#9275 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/01/12 00:30:44
It has something to do with the video option screen.
Normally after installing quake it offers a resolution from 320x240 to 800x600, but for some reason the max only goes to 480x320.
#9276 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2010/01/12 01:02:03
maybe a dumb question, but just how old is this old win98 computer? it's possible the video card doesn't support the higher resolutions? can you find out what kind of video card it has (if any)?
Er
#9277 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2010/01/12 01:03:15
well, that last question was retarded... it obviously has some kind of video card, what i actually meant was if it had 3d acceleration of if it was one of those ancient ones.
Odd
#9278 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/01/14 04:17:22
It's a mobo I caught out of the surplus and plugged in a disk, a video and soundcard, and finaly I can start a win98 program.
I got all these odd warnings about flipages not correckt screen resolution. I remember in the old 98 it had these errors with darkened screens and garbage messages.
So I'm just on the point Quake starts up well, but only with a max screen of 480x320.
It's not the 3d or something with the videocard, it's only the old dosquake version I can't force to 800x600 resolution.
What Would It Take ...
#9279 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/01/14 08:45:42
to give liquids an angle, a travel direction, like you can do in Quake 2 ?
It would be great to see water coming down or lava floating from one point to another.
Would it be possible to "steal" the code that makes it possible in Quake 2 and put it in a mod for quake 1, or would it involve changing the Quake engine itself ?
#9280 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/01/14 09:01:31
quake2 did it with texture flags, which required a new texture format which the engine recognized.
quake could do it by implementing some sort of shader system, probably.
No
#9281 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/01/14 10:37:38
I can't do that, that would take considerably more programming skills then I possess.
And I guess it would be impossible to have a liquid texture (*) and combine it with a func_wall (+) one ?
#9282 posted by neg [88.70.59.141] on 2010/01/14 10:54:50
Just animate one of the water textures. Four frames are enough already.
#9283 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/01/14 11:11:34
Neg, the trouble is that it would look weird in combination with the "real" water, especially with transparent features enabled.
#9284 posted by metlslime [98.248.107.212] on 2010/01/14 11:15:32
one trick i've seen is to build a river out of func_trains in an endless loop, with each train having water textures on it.
The "pox extras" mod (which also has some other water-based tricks) had an example map that did this, i think.
Wow !
#9285 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/01/14 11:18:43
That's a great idea !
I'm going to try it out right now !
Thanks !
And I'll have a look if I can find the Pox mod, I must have missed that one.
#9286 posted by [88.70.59.141] on 2010/01/14 11:26:19
It looks fine with the real water since it's the same texture but yeah, transparency makes it complicated. So your options are: compile the map without transparent water, use the animated texture on a func_illusionary with alpha enabled if the intended engine supports it, or use the regular water texture and greatly increase the scale of one of its planes (by 20-30) - this will create a semi-believable flow-like look, at least on actual waterfalls
Quoth Question!
#9287 posted by Drew [132.205.218.16] on 2010/01/14 21:03:02
Is it possible to "activate" a trigger ladder? Or does it have to be 'available' at all times?
Yes And No
#9288 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2010/01/14 22:05:38
you have actually use a func_rotate_train to hack in a ladder that becomes activated.
i'm going to assume you're making a ladder that starts in a retracted position and then through a button extends so the player can use.
first build your ladder and turn it into a func_movewall.
now create your func_ladder brush.
give both those entities the same targetname.
now create a func_rotate_train and set the target to match the movewall and ladder. the func_ladder will move in tandem with the func_movewall.
Append:
#9289 posted by necros [99.227.133.158] on 2010/01/14 22:07:02
you have actually use a func_rotate_train
you can actually use a func_rotate_train
i neglected the mention (although it's implied): make sure to tick the "visible" flag on your func_movewall or else your ladder model is invisible. :P
Forthcoming
#9290 posted by Preach [94.169.109.218] on 2010/01/14 22:28:39
A full system for locking and unlocking entities is something I wrote some test code for, right after the last version of Quoth got released. So it's something yet to be incorporated.
If you only need the ladder initially disabled, you can safely use the info_notnull hack. Give your ladder a classnameof info_notnull (as a brush entity) a targetname, and then set
"use" "trigger_ladder"
On firing the targetname event, the entity should spawn up. You can then killtarget it to remove it. By duplicating the ladder entity with different targetnames you could do it a finite number of times(if you were careful). Being able to switch it on and off any number of times is not yet possible, but it will be!
Outfoxed
#9291 posted by Preach [94.169.109.218] on 2010/01/14 22:36:51
Ah, that's a clever trick Necros! Yeah, the hipnotic rotating entities allow you to move triggers as attachments. One small warning - the trigger_ladder has an associated "outwards" vector to help push the player onto the ledge above/away from the ladder when they jump off. This does not adjust for the rotation of the entity, so make sure the vector is correct in the final position. Also, don't get tempted to allow players to hang on while it moves! I suspect bad things will happen...
#9292 posted by Drew [132.205.218.16] on 2010/01/15 00:31:27
Necros: I think I have handle that.
Preach: that vector shit IS something I'll probably have to keep in mind - thanks!
Quake Key Question.
#9293 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/01/16 19:58:35
Just out of curiosity, is there any easy way to get a key to activate something other than a door in Quake?
I Think That
#9294 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.38.238] on 2010/01/16 20:26:27
(without using any hacks, which Im sure other mappers here will be able to tell you about) you can make a door target another item. So you could make a door behave like a button by setting the sounds and directions so it moves like a button, but when you finally get the key you need to open the door, you touch the door and the door moves like a button would and triggers something else. I did this in starkmon IIRC :)
?
#9295 posted by ijed [190.20.113.246] on 2010/01/17 18:14:37
Just give it a target - everything with that targetname will be activated.
#9296 posted by gb [89.27.229.197] on 2010/01/18 20:39:23
The question is a bit unclear - you want a key to activate lifts, trains, or whatever?
Do like Ricky says for standard Quake. Use a door that looks like a button.
The clean solution would be to have something like RemakeQuake's item_key/trigger_lock combination, where the lock can be everything. If you're ready to use your own progs.dat, you can rip this stuff from the RMQ source.
#9297 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/01/20 21:09:20
I agree, I wasn't too clear.
What I actually want to do is activate some rising steps (which are really 6 individual doors) a few seconds after the actual keyed door is opened.
I may have been doing something wrong, but I didn't have any luck making a relay the target of the keyed door. I'll go back and try that again.
I'm trying to keep it simple because I'm at the 256 model limit.
#9298 posted by gb [89.27.191.37] on 2010/01/20 21:29:32
Have the key door target the first stair, but set "delay" to about 3.
Have the first stair target the second, the second the third, and so on, setting "delay" on each stair to 0.5 seconds or so.
Just off the top of my head. Shoot me if I'm wrong.
#9299 posted by negke [88.70.241.8] on 2010/01/20 21:57:43
Delay doesn't work on doors like it does on triggers. A func_door entity always fires its target immediately. You can either use different speed values for each step, stagger some trigger_relays or add a "use" "multi_trigger" field and corresponding delay values to each step/door.
#9300 posted by gb [89.27.241.13] on 2010/01/20 23:15:03
Argh, then it's a RMQ thing again. Oh well. It gets confusing.
Listen to negke.
Wait
#9301 posted by ijed [190.20.126.135] on 2010/01/20 23:29:54
Why not trigger all the steps at the same time and give them all the same speed? They're all different heights so will stop moving at different times anyway - resulting in a choral sound effect.
Yeah
#9302 posted by negke [88.70.67.160] on 2010/01/21 00:04:28
Sometimes the most obvious solution is the hardest one to find...
Hah
#9303 posted by ijed [190.20.126.135] on 2010/01/21 00:11:57
I only know because I'm using one in a current map.
#9304 posted by gb [89.27.241.13] on 2010/01/21 15:55:34
lol.
Got It Working
#9305 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/01/21 17:54:42
I put a keyed door on the floor. It has the lip set so it doesn't actually move. Its right below what was the original keyed door. It's targeted to a trigger_relay and the original keyed door, both named "tryagain". The relay has a delay of 3 seconds and targets the six rising steps.
This works okay. It's not exactly the effect I wanted but I can fool with it from here.
Funny thing, I had the keyed door inset in the floor and it wouldn't get triggered. There were no other brushes overlapping it or anything, it was just like a piece of the floor. I had to move it above the floor to get it to work. I'll have to try that again because I just remembered I also changed it's angle from 0 to "up". Maybe that had something to do with it.
Skill Question
#9306 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/01/24 20:58:51
While testing my level I 've come up to an odd point of setting the skill level.
I counted all monsters and took their health count together. Then I counted all ammunition and tried a relation with their availabillity to match the health count.
But as the TE_DAMAGE of all weapons differs this isn't the right way to handle.
I can count the ogres and enforcers to reclaim their rockets and cells, but as they are also gibbable this is only temperary.
Is there an easier way to gain the outcome?
Lol
#9307 posted by negke [88.70.67.156] on 2010/01/24 21:23:24
Use monstercount / (pi*thumb), then substract the release date.
Or just play the map and add enough items so that you can get through smoothly. Then declare this as Hard and scale down the difficulty settings from there. Then see how the testers do.
Yeah
#9308 posted by RickyT23 [82.20.47.17] on 2010/01/25 00:44:50
You have to take into factor the players level of accuracy. According to teh games I play, my accuracy = 20-40%. So it is meaningless.
Always just play, play, and play again. Then get l00ts if testing done. :D
#9309 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/01/25 01:49:59
Well I played rather several times only the hard and nightmare are the worst.
So I thought if I
TE_DAMAGE * ammucount = all monsters health + random
could compare it mathly.
I Think
#9310 posted by ijed [190.20.80.38] on 2010/01/25 04:18:14
There's too many variables to make an equation of it. Unless you want to get alot more complex than 4 variables.
What negke says works :)
TF2 Swamp Theme
#9311 posted by DaZ [78.149.186.211] on 2010/01/26 16:11:35
Wasn't quite sure where to put this :P
TF2maps has finished their TF2 swamp theme pack that contains new models/textures/blah which you can download and use for free, its very high quality stuff!
http://swamp.tf2maps.net/
License?
#9312 posted by megaman [88.134.124.180] on 2010/01/26 18:34:43
Error
#9313 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/02 15:34:20
Don't know what happened after a qc-script, in game leaves the message:
PR_executeprogram : excessive stack (53 normal = 31)
Nevermind
#9314 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/02 18:13:06
bad scripting.
Hanging Vines
#9315 posted by DaZ [89.243.90.37] on 2010/02/02 22:19:35
Doe's anyone know of a texture pack that has some nice alpha channelled hanging vines and overgrowth textures? Or any packs that feature some sort of old abandoned temple theme? I'm thinking more Mayan than Egyptian here, any info would be appreciated!
Iirc
#9316 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/02/03 00:59:17
the original rtgnosis texture set had a vine/leaves overlay with an alpha channel.
Also
#9317 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/02/03 20:15:35
Sock's Pyramid of the Magicians (pom) level.
Grahf
#9318 posted by DaZ [89.241.155.68] on 2010/02/03 22:43:25
I had totally forgotten about that map, damn its perfect =)
Thank you very much!
Hammer For Quake?
#9319 posted by [Jimbo] [65.51.223.178] on 2010/02/05 19:12:37
I know this is probly in here somewhere, but...
Is there a guide / howto for editing quake maps in valve source sdk? Is this possible or should I just be using hammer 3.4 (3.5?)?
Can't Be Done AFAIK
#9320 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/05 20:08:04
Although search for Baker's Quake Adapter for hammer 3.3 - maybe I'm misunderstanding what you want to do.
Edit In New Hammer
#9321 posted by [Jimbo] [65.51.223.178] on 2010/02/05 21:33:04
My goal was to be able to edit maps in the new hammer, export them somehow, compile for quake with the new tools. I figured I'd ask here first in case there was a tut somewhere.
If it's not doable I am gonna fire up hammer 3.4.
It's been a few years (and a few computers) since I had a mapping environment setup. ;)
Have A Go
#9322 posted by ijed [190.20.115.118] on 2010/02/05 23:48:29
I've been meaning to do it myself since the latest beta version can apparantly show model meshes inside the 3d window.
Killtarget Flag
#9323 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/08 15:28:36
It works in Fitzquake, but it doesn't in Qrack.
Why could that be ?
#9324 posted by negke [88.70.235.199] on 2010/02/08 16:54:29
Could be the engine is Qrap.
What are you trying to killtarget and how?
#9325 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/08 17:12:03
Shambler = dead = open gate
The gate was previously closed by another trigger. I want it to re-open (or disappear, that's good enough for me) when the monster is dead.
Qrap or not, it's got nice shiny stuff, I like ;)!
But what I really want is a level that can be played in multiple engines. Except Darkplaces, I've given up on that one, it is not accurate with the placing of items or monster spawns.
Alright
#9326 posted by negke [88.70.235.199] on 2010/02/08 17:23:10
The problem is there's a glitch (or oversight) in the code that prevents monsters from using the killtarget field just like that. You have to give the Shambler a dummy target field for the killtarget to work.
You could probably also just set the "toggle" flag on the gate and make the Shambler target it normally.
Issues with item and monsters in DP often indicate improper placement, e.g. too close to a wall, that other engines ignore. For regular custom maps, any newer DP build should work flawlessly.
NNoooooOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#9327 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.17.74] on 2010/02/09 02:09:04
----- TyrLight v0.99e -----
extra sampling enabled
colored output format: lit
BSP is version 29
1128 entities read, 956 are lights.
************ ERROR ************
TestLineOrSky: tstack overflow
Thats a bit of a grim looking one isnt it!?!?
Anyone here have any idea what that means? Had lit like 95% of the total faces when it spat this error :(
Please help!
Ouch
#9328 posted by ijed [190.20.73.47] on 2010/02/09 04:31:00
Can't help I'm afraid.
How much compile time to see the error?
Probably About 20 Minutes, Maybe A Little Less.
#9329 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/09 10:17:26
AguirRes light tool works though. Doesnt give any clues to the problem. It will have to do for now.
RickyT23
#9330 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/02/09 22:04:59
If you have the C code, you should have a look into it to figure out what's hapening: this is the first time I hear about this particular error...
Is There...
#9331 posted by generic [67.233.133.175] on 2010/02/13 17:25:03
a hack to raise/lower the HP of Quake monsters? I think someone mentioned it before, but I am suffering from some intense mental fog at the moment.
#9332 posted by Spirit [80.171.9.217] on 2010/02/13 17:47:20
armor, check the progs.dat thread.
#9333 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/02/13 20:07:02
armortype 1
armorvalue xxxx <-- however much extra health you want.
Tanks!
#9334 posted by generic [67.233.133.175] on 2010/02/13 23:18:37
TAAANKS!
#9335 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 00:42:28
(L4D2 / Swamp Fever / Plantation level)
A question - anyone have any advice /examples on how to make a spiral? Not a helix but a spiral as seen in SPoG's Q2 map (vertical spiral lift bars).
If I figure it out first then I'll post a .map.
Spiral
#9336 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 03:01:32
it's not quite SPoG standard but here's a pic of an old speedmap i did years ago: http://isoterra.co.uk/images/qspir...
basically for that i started with a 12-sided hollow black cylinder (128 units high in that pic), which each 'side' split diagonally (i started with one brush, split it first, then vertexed & copied it round to form the cylinder, making sure the split always went the same way. i then cloned the whole thing and stacked another on top; then it was just a case of deleting half the brushes & a little more cloning upwards
if you can master that then it shouldn't be too hard to work out how to do different shapes & sizes. there is also a much messier way of doing it by fusing 6 4-sided shapes together to make a cuboid and then vertexing the resulting cluster any way you want, but qbsp tends to get upset at large amounts of those!
Play
#9337 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.17.74] on 2010/02/14 04:51:12
dont bite the hand that feeds you (my map)
Find it on the quaddicted.com website, in the singleplayer maps section, type Ricky in the search field. thehand.bsp
The very first corridor you come to the cieling is 1/4 spiral. Infact Slave To a Machine has a spiral in the generator room.
So two maps I made with a spiral. If you look at the maps I jave the .rmf and the .map source availaible if you like. Just email me or message me here and I will send you the sources
Also
#9338 posted by RickyT23 [82.9.17.74] on 2010/02/14 04:53:18
rj:
nice spiral. also as or the 6/4 side cuboid technique - better just make one cuboid into two triangular prisms, then you cant go wrong ;)
I Made It With
#9339 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 05:04:51
4 sided shapes but got the offset wrong - will give the stack method a try - sounds alot easier tbh.
Sorted
#9340 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 05:35:03
It was the cylinder as an offset reference I was missing.
Problem was I didn't want to make an actual spiral but more something like a drill or screw.
Might well have a go at something a bit more ambitious with this.
Trisoup It
#9341 posted by negke [88.70.244.192] on 2010/02/14 10:44:26
A drill might be tricky to do, assuming it's not the size of a room, because the smaller you get, the more difficult (or impossible) the technique becomes.
Ricky
#9342 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 12:58:25
rj:
nice spiral. also as or the 6/4 side cuboid technique - better just make one cuboid into two triangular prisms, then you cant go wrong ;)
oh you can. i have done anyway ;p
that's essentially what i ended up with above; it can just be a bit of a headache working out which way to split them sometimes; there are still several four-sided faces that need to keep intact
a full 'vertex block' (unofficial name i've given for the 6x4 brush thing) however can literally be bent anywhere on any axis, providing the result is at least concave. works great for natural terrain.. but probably isn't to be abused too much in minor architectural detail
The Most Ambitious Thing I Attempted
#9343 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 13:04:38
was actually in that speedmap pictured above; instead of leaving it as a pillar i tried to make it a full-blown arch with the spiral curving around. i got my head in a mess at the time & ditched the idea but on hindsight it should be easy if you build the curve before subtracting the negative brushes. might try it... i was actually wanting to do a big spirally setpiece as a finale for e2 :)
#9344 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.156] on 2010/02/14 13:56:57
That speedmap was one of the first maps I ever played (ran pretty slow...); that and Daz' graffiti maps are some of my favorite ("mapping-wankery-")spee... ever.
The Drill
#9345 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 17:51:45
Is the size of a room and not supposed to be used for drilling. The limitation of the grid is 2x2 so making a drill of 128 size I wouldn't even attempt - straight to .mdl.
Rj, the spiral made in the way you describe (assuming I'm not missing a step) comes back as invalid solid unless trisouped, though I haven't compiled to check it yet.
I still think back to SPoG - that map was insane for geometric complexity.
Hm, might try to coax AguirRe back to Quake 1 to see what made formations can be tweaked to compile better.
24 sided curved spiral anyone?
Can You
#9346 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 18:41:17
upload a .map of your attempt so i can see if you went wrong anywhere?
Actually Scratch That
#9347 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 18:56:26
i just opened up the rmf of that map and noticed that wasn't how i did it. each side was actually split into 4 not 2. i'll just upload the thing so you can have a look and pull it apart :)
#9348 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 19:05:09
http://isoterra.co.uk/stuff/timega...
http://isoterra.co.uk/stuff/sm48_x...
just attempting a 24-sider now :D
There's
#9349 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 19:20:50
Sprials.rmf in the testmaps folder, or there's examples of 24 sided shapes from ctf1rq - with some geodesic domes in there as well.
Although
#9350 posted by ijed [190.20.124.162] on 2010/02/14 19:22:33
The 24 sided stuff is pretty limited.
...I remember I did include some helix' as well though - above the stairs off to the sides in the courtyard.
#9351 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/14 19:55:17
i just put up a 24 sider in the same folder. it only goes down to the 4 grid at that size so you could in theory either half the bar widths or go for a full-blown 48 sider if you wanted to show off. you could probably get away with half the bars though at 24/48, i don't think spog's had that many
Thanks
#9352 posted by ijed [190.20.124.230] on 2010/02/14 22:13:13
Will take a butchers later though, got people starting to arrive.
Spawning Items.
#9353 posted by Drew [70.49.71.231] on 2010/02/14 23:33:40
Okay - so trying to do something with this not quite speedmap and wondering
how can I go about spawning a key in a map?
I'm working in Quoth, of course.
Bah
#9354 posted by Preach [94.169.109.218] on 2010/02/15 01:23:37
I was going to post a hacky way of doing it, but I'll hold my tongue. There's a correct way of doing it, which is to use the info_multispawn with a spawncount of 1, and set the spawnclassname and spawnfunction to item_key1 instead of a monster class.
A full write-up of the info_multispawn entity can be found here: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Thanks!
#9355 posted by Drew [70.49.71.231] on 2010/02/15 01:40:19
Func_Train Trouble ...
#9356 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/15 10:59:40
Hello again,
I have made a Func_train that goes round, it has 4 path_corners. What I want to do, if possible, is to make a door that opens up to let the train go true. The problem is, I don't know how to do that. Any ideas ?
Well You Can Time The Door To Open
#9357 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/15 14:05:16
At the correct time. Make a trigger_relay entity with the same targetname as the train. When the train gets triggered it will trigger the trigger_relay too. And you make the trigger_relay target the door, but give the trigger_relay a "delay" key with a value of "X", X being the amount of seconds before the door is to open.
Is it "delay" or "wait"? One or the other :)
#9358 posted by negke [88.70.49.134] on 2010/02/15 14:12:27
Yes, that's right. Though it sounds like the door is supposed to open not only once but every time the train passes it. In this case you have to add a second relay with the same targetname that fires the first relay again after the right delay, so the cycle starts over again.
#9359 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/15 14:15:25
Is it possible to make a path_corner trigger the relay or even the door directly?
No.
#9360 posted by negke [88.70.49.134] on 2010/02/15 14:20:36
But you can make the door trigger the relay. Or itself after the time the train needs to do its round - then you'd have to add the field "use" "multi_trigger" to the door.
Btw
#9361 posted by negke [88.70.49.134] on 2010/02/15 14:29:14
Keep in mind this kind of delay/script may easily run out of sync if the train is blocked by the player or monsters.
Thanks
#9362 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/15 14:32:57
for your suggestions.
I'll try and work it out.
Otherwise I'll just have to bin the whole idea.
It's one of these "but I set my mind on it" ideas ...
Another Way Would To Make The Door
#9363 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/15 14:37:00
A train. You could set a path_corner at the open and closed positions of the door, and give them a "wait" key of however long you want the door to wait until it moves again.
I Like That One
#9364 posted by meTch [69.182.179.143] on 2010/02/15 14:39:33
that,s how i would want to do it
...
A Note:
#9365 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/15 16:43:12
Ricky, we've got that done on the code end for RMQ - triggering from when a path_corner is hit.
Making Painkeep Maps
#9366 posted by planckscnst [131.247.19.59] on 2010/02/15 19:51:36
I'm trying to make a Painkeep map using gtkRadiant. I saw that a while back, the makers of the Painkeep mode released a map makers kit which included custom entities. I'm having a heck of a time finding that kit. Does anyone here know where I can get it?
No Color/texture Visable
#9367 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/17 11:22:21
I've changes the func_train into a func_door because of the trouble Negke pointed out in #9361.
Everything is working fine, but the "lift" appears completely black. Could that be because it starts out being hidden ?
Yes
#9368 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/17 11:36:15
Objects will be lit where you position them to begin with.
Solid entities (lifts, doors, trains etc) do not cast a shadow during the light phase though, so in the case of a func_train you can position it wherever you like within the sealed map to get some light on it. It will then be re-located to the first path_corner entity when the map loads.
If its a lift (func_plat) then you need to put a light entity near it to light it in its first position (usually the fully "up" position).
Hope this helps
#9369 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/17 11:51:45
Thanks Ricky.
Yeah, it's helpful.
Funny though, I put some Rune fullbrights on the corners and they do show (in supporting engines of course).
Planckscnst
#9370 posted by negke [88.70.53.171] on 2010/02/17 13:12:08
Check the PQ archive at quakewiki.net - maybe they mirrored the Painkeep website.
Ron: Ah, so it's just a lift? I thought it was supposed to be a platform floating through the map.
They Will
#9371 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/17 13:14:21
Because they're fullbright - basically they ignore lighting completely and always show themselves at maximum illumination.
If the door entity isn't lit it means that it's center (bang in the middle of the bounding box) is inside a solid brush when the light is being calculated.
Try 'Start Open' and trigger it once on map load so its in the right position when you need it. An easier way might be to just give it a recess to fit into.
#9372 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/17 13:34:48
Negke, yes, that was the original idea, to have the "lift" go round, and if you stayed on it you'd be moved into a secret area. But the main use was a lift to get up.
Ijed, I did that, create a space underneath, and it worked !
Thanks again, I'll remember to credit you guys when I'm done ;)
2013 or so ...
Only joking, the thing is that I'm always wanting to ad stuff, sometimes causing me to start all over again. The 1st map I ever made used to be quite small. The 3rd remake is quite big now. But also I had to correct a lot of stuff. I used to do a lot of carving, really bad. There should be more information on how to work clean. There is a lot of documentation on how to make a room, but not how to make it as efficient as possible, unfortunately. So before I found this website, I had to learn trough trail and error.
#9373 posted by Painkeep Maps [131.247.19.59] on 2010/02/17 15:36:53
@negke Thanks for the info - that led me to other Painkeep sites that I didn't know about yet. I've exhausted those and still haven't found what I'm looking for.
Iteration
#9374 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/17 17:00:28
Is a good, and fun, way to map - as opposed to having some rigid plan laid out in advance.
Original Quake & GTKRadiant
#9375 posted by LipSynC [24.242.226.194] on 2010/02/17 19:29:18
I'm having trouble getting the textures to display in the texture window when I'm trying to build Quake maps in GTKRadiant...
However, if I set the game to Quake 2, my quake 2 textures show up without any problems, even without the need to extract the files from the paks.
Is there a special way to setup Quake in GTKRadiant?
#9376 posted by negke [88.70.225.175] on 2010/02/17 21:37:06
Put the texture wads in id1\
#9377 posted by LipSynC [24.242.226.194] on 2010/02/17 22:34:58
Do I have to put the textures in a wad file first? There's only 1 wad file in the paks and it doesn't seem to have anything in it... While the "gfx" folder seems to contain all the textures.
You Need
#9378 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.31] on 2010/02/17 23:04:17
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/qua...
#9379 posted by LipSynC [24.242.226.194] on 2010/02/18 16:01:21
Got it! Thanks!
T-Junctions And Caulk
#9380 posted by LipSynC [24.242.226.194] on 2010/02/19 03:51:23
Other than avoiding to overlap brushes, is it also necessary to avoid T-junctions when making quake maps? Doesn't seem to matter how careful I am, the compiler keeps reporting "# edges added by tjunctions" in the log...
Take a look at these pics, bear in mind the column or "pillar" is floating.
Avoiding T-junctions:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/336...
With T-junctions:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5...
And is there a caulk texture to use when you want faces on a brush to not be calculated when compiling the map? Only thing I found was a "clip" texture.
Lipsync:
#9381 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/02/19 04:55:52
It is not necessary to avoid tjunctions. "X edges added by tjunctions" is not an error, that is just normal operation. QBSP ensures you will not have tjunctions in the compiled level by adding those edges. So you don't need to worry.
There is no "caulk" but there is something called "skip" which might do what you need -- see here: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Metlslime
#9382 posted by LipSynC [24.242.226.194] on 2010/02/19 07:11:33
I see.
This skip tool will come in handy! Thanks!
Er
#9383 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/19 09:26:13
There is nothing wrong with overlapping brushes. Infact overlapping brushes is what the technology was made for. DO overlap brushes!!!
Having 2 faces at the same place on the same plane isnt a good idea because you have no controll as to which face qbsp will choose.
I Find It Good Pratice..
#9384 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/19 09:28:45
not overlapping brushes. even though qbsp doesn't have a problem with it it does help towards neater brushwork in general
Ricky
#9385 posted by negke [88.70.63.0] on 2010/02/19 10:47:08
At least in the case of BJP's tools, qbsp will always choose the face of the newer brush, the one that is further down the list in the .map file.
#9386 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/19 12:23:17
even though qbsp doesn't have a problem with it
seriously, I remember reading an article about how the technology was devised which had diagrams showing how qbsp can take overlapped rough-shaped brushes and subtract everything outside of the inside space. It was what it was designed for! You can get some really neat effects by overlapping brushes, especially with things like rock work.
Things to watch out for which ARE important:
1 - illegally shaped brushes. No concave brushes please.
2 - corners of brushes being off-grid.
I have discovered that you can have overlap points off grid, qbsp completely re-models the brushwork anyway into wireframe. But having corners of brushes off-grid is a real no-no. Likely to lead to leaks, holes in the clipping hulls, homs etc.
Hm
#9387 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/19 13:22:07
Anything of grid is a no-no. Basically because qsbp snaps them to grid, which might not be where you were expecting. If you've got a load of stuff like that that's intersecting then you get a mess of unnecessary (and probably invisible) polys, holes in between structures and so on.
The grid is 2x2 though, and you can always spawn in models with a scrap of code for detailed stuff. Not many people realise / use bsp model spawning - which is the mutts nutts for rotating detailed stuff.
A Minor Difficulty Settings Problem.
#9388 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/19 13:47:01
I've made a part of a map that was perfectly playable in normal skill, the skill I test on because I'm a lazy bastard, but can't be done at all on Nightmare, the skill I always play on.
The Shamblers reload too fast for the player to have any chance of getting past them. Does anyone know where I can find the exact difference in skill settings ?
#9389 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/19 13:58:41
"There is nothing wrong with overlapping brushes. Infact overlapping brushes is what the technology was made for. DO overlap brushes!!!"
Yeah, I wish this myth would go away but it persists for whatever reason. Overlapping brushes are totally fine and completely acceptable. QBSP will cull away the unseen portions.
"Having 2 faces at the same place on the same plane isnt a good idea because you have no controll as to which face qbsp will choose."
Untrue. It will pick the one that appears last in the MAP file. You can control this simply by cutting/pasting the brush that you want to appear last in the map editor. That moves it to the end of the brush list - unless your editor is doing something where it writes out the brushes in an arbitrary order. In that case, it's a failing of the editor rather than Quake/QBSP itself.
Funny ...
#9390 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/19 14:03:58
I've found a new way on how to get by them.
Funny how your own maps can bring out the creative player in you, I guess that's why I love Quake so much.
#9391 posted by Spirit [213.39.158.187] on 2010/02/19 16:23:03
Enemies fire faster on Nightmare, that's the main difference you cannot influence. The rest is item spawnflags to make them not appear..
Remove One!!!
#9392 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/19 17:05:52
Or die!!!
#9393 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/19 19:44:01
Anything of grid is a no-no. Basically because qsbp snaps them to grid, which might not be where you were expecting. If you've got a load of stuff like that that's intersecting then you get a mess of unnecessary (and probably invisible) polys, holes in between structures and so on
this. like i say, even if it compiles without a hitch most of the time, having loads of off-grid overlap points still leaves your map more susceptible to random leaks & the like, as well as being not very nice to build stuff on (say if you wanted to cut a cave out of the rockface, or build some architecture into it later on).
but hey, personal preference. i used to do it all the time but have much prefered working with natural terrain stuff since i stopped doing it. much prefer using triangular faces now
And
#9394 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/19 19:45:36
you should never need to test nightmare or find a way of making it easier, it's supposed to be fucking hard :P
Grid And Overlapping
#9395 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/02/19 22:00:08
not only should stuff be "on grid" meaning on the 1x1 grid, you should also build stuff so that it fits on the higher grid levels when possible. So if you have a 32-unit-thick wall, try to align it to the 32x32 grid. If you add an 8-unit-wide railing, try to align it to the 8x8 grid.
As for overlapping brushes, this is fine BUT the thing to avoid is having things overlap slightly, when they could just touch perfectly. So if you have two brushes side-by-side, don't just put them so they overlap by 3-5 pixels, make the edges actually line up flush. This is mainly for the same reason as the previous paragraph about aligning to the largest grid size possible.
#9396 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/19 22:06:31
What is that information on grid alignment based on? Is that a gut feel thing, or is there a technical foundation behind it?
I'm not challenging you, but I've heard a lot of level design advice over the years that is basically couched in "this is the way I learned to do it". Well, great, but if there's no QBSP related reason to do it... :)
Willem:
#9397 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/02/19 22:36:47
Mostly gut feel, based on what i've seen, what i know about qbsp, and what i've absorbed from others. I think you are correct to challenge this advice as perhaps more "mapper lore" than solid fact.
Scientifically, i would have to make an entire map the "messy" way and compare it to a "clean" map to have any evidence that it mattered.
But, since brush faces determine BSP planes, it seems plausible that it would make a cleaner BSP if there were fewer unique planes and more nodes that cut along the same planes.
I can say from experience that maps with more orthogonal brushwork compile faster than maps with many angled planes, since i've done both of those types. And i see more (seemingly) extraneous face cuts in areas of maps that have a lot of non-orthogonal brushfaces.
I can also say from experience that when two nearby brushfaces are parallel but not coplanar, it is more likely to create additional cuts on nearby faces. (presumably because if they are coplanar there can only be one cut on nearby faces since there is only one plane.)
Qbsp does do a decent job of merging neighboring faces when it can, this mitigates the problem in terms of raw poly count, but i believe the extra bsp complexity is still there.
More facts on this topic would be useful. On the other hand, I have heard that even John Carmack has been suprised to hear certain results (such as the reported finding that 64-unit walls produced better vis than 32-unit walls.) [citation needed]
In terms of "advice to a newbie" i still feel better advising 'clean' brushwork, since it is proven successful, rather than 'messy' brushwork, which might be harmless but i don't think has the same track record.
Amusing Footnote:
#9398 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/02/19 22:49:11
I spent about 1 week making a small test map in ut2k3, for a job application. I built everything the quake way, all clean and lined up on a grid and flush with each other (though of course i used the subtractive brushes to make the initial rooms and some of the smaller alcoves.)
... and had all sorts of headaches with compile errors, geometry errors, etc!
Then i opened up one of the ut2k3 maps in the editor to see how they did it. What i found was: 1. there were only about 15 brushes in the entire map (rest was static mesh), 2. all the brushes were subtractive, 3. and they were all random sized, non powers of 2, off-grid, and slightly overlapping! And of course it compiled perfectly.
I ended up getting a job on a Q3-engine game instead, so it all worked out in the end. :)
#9399 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/19 22:53:25
Haha, yeah, we rarely use BSP for anything these days other than floors and the occasional wall. Everything else is meshes.
Can I Just Say
#9400 posted by Drew [70.49.71.231] on 2010/02/21 03:20:13
really like the term "mapper lore".
N
#9401 posted by n [80.143.96.24] on 2010/02/21 16:11:45
n
Wicked Grid Maze
#9402 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/21 19:04:50
I finished a map two years ago. It was broken and ruined with brushes used on all gridsizes.
When I realized I could never get a clean bsp, as the map started leaking and homming like a rascal, I decided to start again.
I compiled everything clean on grid. It was a repetive thing to me, but to my surprise the map rounded out good.
Then I decided to add a terrain map, which was a construction of triangle brushes ending up in sloped edges. Apart the map compiled well.
When I added the terrainmap I had to realign all brushes to fit them on grid.
And this broke up all my smooth pathway, but it worked.
And
#9403 posted by ijed [190.20.125.168] on 2010/02/21 20:34:53
It's just good practice to keep stuff neat and orderly.
Screenie!
#9404 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/22 02:33:03
please
Sure...,
#9405 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/22 09:32:41
but now my smooth terrainmap only imports on rougher brushes by marking all on grid. Or I could ignore warnings.
Ricky.., you played the map. More or less..,
https://homedrive.ziggo.nl/gimli@h...
Is there something to do about model skins that keep get mirrored?
I broke an evening to get me a good baseframe,
and now it keeps removing front with backparts.
Wrong Link
#9406 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/22 09:34:09
http://members.home.nl/gimli/gimli...
Wow
#9407 posted by negke [88.70.69.94] on 2010/02/22 10:24:52
Is this really a MadFox map?! Looks neat.
Though I suggest you change the texture on the railings to something without rivets, a simple brown or gray metal.
Can't Wait To Play It !
#9408 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/22 18:21:11
Looks great, MadFox !
Force To Grid
#9409 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/22 19:19:59
Railings are dxf files which have no shadows, same as the hillslopes. This makes lighting a little tricky seeing the clear dxf file near a brush. Could have another texture but the hexen2 wad is rather bloomish.
My concern is that the middle low pix is a sloped pathcorner around. In the testmap the pathcorner was well closed, while in this map it suddenly shook all brushes in it.
I had to use "force to grid" for all and now it has more of a stairway. But I wanted to make a map once whith all brushes integer.
When two maps with both integer brushes is put together, is the need to replace the imported brushes back into integer origins normal?
Hammer 3.5?
#9410 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/22 20:28:42
Is Hammer 3.5 the one that can be coerced to work for Quake1 editing? I can't keep it straight anymore.
Worldcraft 3.3
#9411 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/22 20:57:43
Its the same thing really AFAIK.
Although I have heard of someone using Hammer for Quake ........
#9412 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/22 21:01:58
Is it the same?
OK, if not, where can I get 3.3?
And once I get it, do I need to do anything to it or will it "just work"?
Well
#9413 posted by spy [89.218.6.136] on 2010/02/22 22:24:18
i'm using hammer 3.5, with out that fecking texture trouble off of WC3.3
#9414 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/22 22:35:03
Cool! So I install 3.5 and then this QuakeAdapter thingamaroo and it's all good?
Pretty Much
#9415 posted by ijed [190.20.125.168] on 2010/02/22 23:42:11
You need to convert the wads though. It's semi automated - have to put them in the right folder.
Madfox
#9416 posted by meTch [69.182.179.143] on 2010/02/23 02:09:39
VeniVidiFuzi
is an awesome name :D
#9417 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/23 02:27:25
This was discussed above, I know, but I need to ask again since none of the solutions up there are working.
I installed Worldcraft 3.3 and did the QuakeAdapter stuff. It loads up and seems to work but I can't select anything in the 3D view. I don't see anything about hardware acceleration in the Options dialog box so I'm kinda stumped.
Any ideas?
#9418 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/23 02:29:45
Ahh, found this note in the help file:
"Note: if you are familiar with previous versions of Worldcraft, you may note the absence of the Hardware Acceleration checkbox. Worldcraft will now always attempt to run in OpenGL mode, and if that isn't available through hardware, it will attempt to emulate it in software."
Buh? Now what do I do? :-/
OK
#9419 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/23 03:40:57
Not wanting to sound retarded, but this is actually a recurring bug. I have experienced it marginally on both my old GPUs, but the majority of the time it is fine.
When it happens, just to verify, when you put the cursor over the 2D view does it become a hand instead of an arrow?
Usually a reboot sorts it out on my PC, and it hasnt happened to me for ages, but others have had the same/similar troubles.
Another thing which may help would be the check you are using up to date drivers / drivers which work..... ?
Also out of curiosity, what GPU are you using?
Also
#9420 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/23 03:42:22
Instead of "hardware acceleration" tab, there is one which is imply called "filter textures" or "filtering" or something. I think that does the same / similar thing.
Question
#9421 posted by Drew [65.92.22.71] on 2010/02/23 04:15:10
you don't have to convert wads when you use hammer 3.5?
Drew
#9422 posted by spy [92.46.19.181] on 2010/02/23 08:48:18
yes, you're still have to convert wads for using hammer 3.5, but it's much easier then converting via qadapter
Hmm
#9423 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/23 10:01:37
hardware acceleration was the only thing tempting me to move away from 1.6, but the above few posts don't make that look too promising!
I Would Upgrade From 1.6 Because ...
#9424 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/23 10:29:19
Texture use is much easier in 3.3.
If you rotate something the textures stay in proportion if you use texture lock. I find the "fit" check box easy as well. It allows you to fill out texture on a brush that is not quite the right size, but close enough to look silly.
Another thing I love is the option of making arches. You get a preview screen before the item is placed, where you can change the shapes and other stuff. It's really cool for making curved hallways.
I found the vertex tool a bit easier to use as well.
So, can anyone tell me what version 3.5 adds for Quake mapping ?
>correction<
#9425 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/23 10:30:40
NOT to look silly, I meant ...
#9426 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/23 13:40:26
God, what an atrocity. I grabbed a version of Hammer 3.5 that basically works but I can either:
(A) Have proper texture view and no selection abilities or...
(B) be able to select in the 3D view but the textures are drawing all skewed and such on the faces or...
(C) be able to select in the 3D view with proper texture application but it's horrifically slow
Fuck it, let's see what the BSP editor is like.
It's
#9427 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/23 13:51:46
A 3d Driver / GPU issue - you're on ATI I guess.
You need to turn off Filter textures in the 3d View options and paste a .dll into the worldcraft folder.
http://rapidshare.com/files/138119...
Basically if the dll exists then it stops WC from trying to use the hardware and retards it back a few generations. Which works.
Or you can just buy Nvidia :P
I Mean
#9428 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/23 13:52:32
It forces software rendering - visually it looks the same as hardware acceleration, can't say I've noticed it being slower either.
#9429 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/23 14:36:55
ijed
Thanks but I tried that. That's what makes it abysmally slow. I'll probably try to set up my other laptop soon (an nvidia machine). The BSP editor seems kinda cool though. Maybe I'll try this for awhile. But, of course, the texture tools are pretty bad.
WC
#9430 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/23 14:42:36
Is a pain in the arse to set up - the real reason to use it is the very good texture handling and visually simple frontend.
Vista also hates it with a passion.
#9431 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 15:35:20
Ahh, being on Vista might be part of the problem them too.
No worries, BSP actually seems to be pretty good now that I've meticulously set up the preferences the way I want them. I don't think it has rotational texture locking which is the one thing I really wanted Worldcraft for. I can get by without it though...
Willem
#9432 posted by Spirit [213.39.187.81] on 2010/02/23 15:36:44
Now you know why you should have written ToeTag crossplatform in the beginning.
#9433 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 15:39:29
Spirit
So much work. :)
I forgot my main complaint with BSP - the 3D camera controls. Horrible. So horrible.
But Worldcraft isn't much better, so, no loss there.
Did You Try
#9434 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/23 16:02:16
different drivers?
#9435 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 16:10:39
I can't be bothered, to be honest. I'm done with installing different versions of drivers to make things work. :) Thanks for the suggestion though.
CCC 10.2
#9436 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/23 16:50:13
I've been all over that s@#*
http://www.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDHom...
The newest ati drivers are actually pretty neat. Massive performance increases and everything! Got to be worth a try....
See it occurred to me - the hardware accelleration mode of Hammer likely uses the hardware within your computer.
And seeing as you have told me yourself that you never use your computer for gaming then it would make sense that your drivers aren't up to date. I mean they release new drivers every couple of minutes nowadays. And they release these "updates" to operating systems also.
Maybe thats why I never have any real problems with these things - I recognise the fact that I have to take it upon myself to make sure that I am using the correct tools for the job. I cannot entrust this task to Dell or Hewlett-Packard, they frankly suck. Taking value from the end-user product at every possible turn.
So seriously, if you are serious about mapping with an editor which works well and has all of that magical texture locking stuff which makes it about as easy as Lego bricks, then atleast try installing the latest drivers for your GPU. If that doesnt work then fine, stick to the manual and time consuming method, I'm sure its no big deal.
But its got to be worth a try hasnt it?
If you have some kind of horrible OEM GPU in your box then I'm sorry, I cant offer any advice other than dont buy hardware from these big firms who dont give a c@#p about their customers (HP grrrrr.....)
#9437 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 17:01:18
Look, I appreciate the help but understand that I've been tinkering with PCs for over 20 years now. I understand all about getting the latest drivers and all that jazz. I got it. I just can't be bothered at the moment.
I'll maybe take another shot at it later this week but I've already lost several hours to getting Hammer working and, frankly, I'd rather be working on my brushes.
Hmm
#9438 posted by nonentity [89.168.75.56] on 2010/02/23 18:55:10
Any ideas?
GTK 1.4
(seriously)
#9439 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 19:23:30
Last time I tried it, GTK was almost as large of a farce as this Worldcraft adventure has been. Does it have a simple installer and does it "just work"?
You're Being Shady
#9440 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/23 19:42:43
about your platform, whilst yelling "farce" and stuff, man. You ask for help then you tell me you "might" try again later.
I dont understand. I defend the editor because I have been using it ever since I upgraded from WC 1.6.
What features does Hammer have that Worldcraft 3.3 doesnt anyway? AFAIK they are extremely similar, the interface and button icons and everything are identical. But the Quakeadapter was meant for WC 3.3, but you used Hammer. Why?
Also, for future reference (for me) please tell me what platform you are using? Im only asking because in the future someone will complain that they have the same problem, and if you find a solution ever then I might be able to help them, or atleast be able to say that this happens with GPU x or OS y, and that using driver z helped, or whatever.
Do ya get me?
I understand that it sucks when stuff doesnt work out of the box so to speak (took me ages to get Bioshock DX10 to run on my Windows 7 rig, and yeah - I was frustrated, tired, had a million other things to be thinking of.
But anyway, if you get a minute, or ever decide to attempt mapping with this software ever again like could you let me know your GPU, OS, driver version and things please :)
Yes
#9441 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/23 19:43:18
Absolute noob on compilers, but the one time I tried to instal GTK radiant I got lost in different versions my computer didn't like.
Win98 user - Dos fan.
GTK 1.4 worked right away.
#9442 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 20:33:30
Ricky
Again, thanks, but I'm going to try BSP for a bit and see how it goes. It works. That's all I ask from this stuff. :)
MadFox
I might try Radiant again but I remember a similar clusterfuck with it. Different versions, different feature sets, stuff to install, ... blech!
Willem
#9443 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/23 20:54:52
What is the problem with the 3D camera controls on BspEditor?
#9444 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 21:11:16
They aren't UnrealEd's controls, basically. :)
I just have to get used to them I guess. Most Quake editors have clunky 3D camera controls. Any time you require me to use the keyboard to navigate, it's kind of a fail.
Willem
#9445 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/23 21:38:49
Not sure which version you are using (I use 96b because they dropped support for BspBuild after that) but mouse scroll wheel for movement, and Alt+mouse for 360 looking work fine. I use Shift+ Left Mouse for texture alignment, CTRL + Left Mouse for texture sizing on the fly; and the mouse controls are fully configurable anyway.
#9446 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/23 21:42:09
ALT, huh? Will try that (right now it's my middle mouse button). I JUST picked it up last night so I'm definitely open to learning whatever I can about it.
Oh Yes...
#9447 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/23 21:56:22
...and I use CTRL/Alt Left Mouse for texture rotation; especially good for aligning wood textures on spiral staircases.
Ricky !
#9448 posted by Drew [65.94.245.155] on 2010/02/24 00:36:40
I'm still having problems converting my wads into hlwads with the qconverter stuff. I gave up on trying to figure that out, but I'm tired of the vanilla textures lately...
Ricky, I remember a long time ago you offered to give me a few more .hlwads if I needed them.
could you send me the Half life and DOOM hlwads!?
An Important Note For Nvidia And Worldcraft 1.6 Users
#9449 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2010/02/24 00:36:56
Since we happen to be on the subject of mapping editors, I feel I need to share this bit of info in case someone else encounters it. I probably am the last person using Worldcraft 1.6, but irregardless.
If you are using an Nvidia graphics card with the latest drivers, and are on Windows Vista or 7, you will experience a garbled 3d view in WC 1.6 that seemingly can't be fixed. This is because it's due to an Nvidia driver fault, and not because of Vista or Windows 7.
Worldcraft 1.6 uses DirectX, NOT OpenGL. WC uses the nvd3dum.dll which is Nvidia's Vista compatible D3D driver. This is the driver that causes the garbled screen problem, at least the current version of it does now. Any version higher than 182.50 of this driver causes the garbled screen.
So in order to fix it, you must copy the nvd3dum.dll from an older set of Nvidia drivers (182.50 or below) and place it in Worldcraft's main folder. This will remedy the 3D view problem.
I will gladly provide the old nvd3dum.dll driver that fixes the garbled screen problem, but again I'm not sure if anyone else out there uses WC 1.6 anymore. Still, I felt it was necessary to share in case someone does.
Drew
#9450 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.115.48] on 2010/02/24 02:11:28
I'll see what I got ready.
The HalfLife one needs to be tinkered I think because its too big/has textures which are too big.
But I got the doom ones :)
#9451 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/24 02:12:21
but again I'm not sure if anyone else out there uses WC 1.6 anymore
i thought my post above kinda suggested i did :)
i have a nvidia card too, but am only on XP. useful to know if i ever end up getting windows 7 though.
just to clarify, do you mean the normal 3d view or hardware accelerated mode? the latter has never really worked properly for me (can never seem to select the right brush/face/item) so always stick with the standard
Rad
#9452 posted by Drew [65.94.245.155] on 2010/02/24 02:32:24
thanks dude, I really appreciate it if you can, but no worries if it won't work out.
Rj
#9453 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2010/02/24 04:19:23
just to clarify, do you mean the normal 3d view or hardware accelerated mode?
That's a good question. Yes, it only affects the normal software rendered 3D view. It doesn't garble the 3D view when using hardware accelerated mode, but you can't use that mode either because you can't select anything in the 3D view, as you said.
But since you use XP, you won't have the 3D view problem regardless. :)
We Want
#9454 posted by ijed [190.20.82.86] on 2010/02/24 12:07:45
Open Source Worldcraft - because Valve can't be trusted to make it work.
#9455 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/02/24 15:43:12
I'm using WC 1.6 on Windows 7 with hardware acceleration enabled and it works. My computer is an Intel Core2Duo and nVidia 8800GTS.
This is not the original WC I bought, but a version I downloaded from somewhere (my original WC wouldn't run on Windows 7, I found this one while searching for a fix). The .exe file does appear to be the same though. This version came with a Direct3D dll in the folder that apparently used to come with XP but is no longer supplied with 7.
The hardware acceleration is not perfect though. When selecting in the 3D view it will often select brushes off in the distance somewhere instead of the one you actually clicked on. Re-orienting the view slightly will usually fix this.
#9456 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/24 16:12:57
BSP is pretty nice now that I've spent a few hours with it. I really like having multiple window set ups at my finger tips - I've set one up for editing, one for texturing, etc. Slick.
The one thing I don't like is that I don't see a way to hide/show brushes/entities without using groups. That will slow me down once a level gets to be a reasonable size.
Another Little Problem ...
#9457 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/24 17:12:04
I made a floor that disappears with a trigger_counter>killtarget>f...
It works fine, but the bodies and items keep hanging in mid air.
Oh, and the floor was a func_wall, I don't know if that's relevant.
Any suggestions ?
#9458 posted by negke [88.70.80.166] on 2010/02/24 17:17:40
That's the standard behavior when killtargeting funcs. If possible, turn it into a door that moves down quickly (and quietly), with a lip value that makes it move a few units inside the lower floor.
Thanks
#9459 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/24 17:26:46
Why can't it ever be easy ? ;)
Almost Funny ...
#9460 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/24 18:10:59
I had to make the door move to the side, I can't make it go down. It works fine, only now all the bodies are pressed up to the wall where the door was last.
I don't think I can win this one ...
Well
#9461 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/24 18:15:05
like Negke says, the corpses will follow wherever the door goes.
I'm guessing it can't go down because you've got stuff there?
If there's items then just move them up a floor, if it's monster you can try spawning them in after the floor falls away.
#9462 posted by negke [88.70.80.166] on 2010/02/24 18:19:53
Or prevent the monsters from walking onto the door, e.g. by placing 'soft' monsterjump triggers around it.
#9463 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/24 18:31:38
So IS there a way to hide/show individual brushes/entities in BSP without using a temp group? There has to be, right?
OR MOVE THE WORLD AROUND THE ROOM!
#9464 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/24 18:32:18
Thanks Again
#9465 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/24 18:38:11
Thanks again, some good suggestions.
But I don't know, maybe I'm bitching too much.
It looks a little bit silly, but it doesn't interfere with gameplay so, I don't know, maybe I'll just keep it like it is now.
Yes, there is stuff underneath, I could try the spawning thing.
The monsters need to be on the door too, it's sort of a battle ground with several layers.
#9466 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/24 18:41:06
"OR MOVE THE WORLD AROUND THE ROOM!"
Haha, that would be cool !
I don't know if the old engine could take that much travel at one time though !
Have you ever done something like that ?
If so, please tell me where.
Sort Of
#9467 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/24 19:20:02
In a Q2 Lazarus map. In it you can make a mirror plane, but the mirror will only reflect entities (monsters etc) not brushwork. So behind / inside the mirror you have to make a mirror image of your level to create the illusion.
Copying an idea from one of the test maps I made it so the player could break the mirror, at which point the fake world (func_wall) was deleted and the real room behind filled with enemies.
I tried a The Cube type thing once as well.
Neither got further than failed mod / test map.
I think Negke had a speedmap with rising water?
-->
#9468 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/24 19:20:36
And moved the world, because id1 water can't move.
Not?
#9469 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/02/24 19:42:52
OR MOVE THE WORLD AROUND THE PLAYER!
instead of teleporters..,
player not fixed, we can't do that yet.
Willem
#9470 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/24 19:54:19
You can hide all entites - it's the icon below the Grid menu in the standard set up 'ent' with a line through it.
Next to that is the hide world button.
But, use Groups they will speed up your workflow once you get used to it.
For instance, here is a list of things that I would put in a Group:-
terrain lumps
lights
monsters
lava where there is a lot of different chunks of it
major building elements such as above ground/below ground; or dungeon/library
In fact I Group anything that I want to work on until it is finished and then move onto the next area and switch off the finished area.
I think the key to using Groups is that you can set them to hide what would otherwise be distracting brushwork in dense areas of the map.
Imagine working on this without Groups:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707...
Compared to:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1...
Entities off and just the Group I am working on.
Groups, they're brilliant!
#9471 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/24 21:25:02
Oh, I'm on board with the group train, believe me. That was an immediate win for me.
I was just hoping for a quick, "I want to work on these 3 brushes for a second". In ToeTag I had a thing where I could select them and with a keypress hide everything else.
It's also nice to be able to say, "This brush is right in the way of what I want to see." There's no way of clicking it and just hiding it quickly from what I can tell.
I guess I'll have to get ninja with the groups and deal with it. :)
Something Else About WC
#9472 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/24 22:49:23
I have to use this utility:
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/se...
With a number higher than 1 to not go blind with the 3d window.
#9473 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/24 22:52:46
That's something I don't like in BSP. It has the worst texture browser I've ever used. It's worse than Worldcraft's and that's saying something. :)
Texture Browser
#9474 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/24 23:59:37
What kind of things would you do to the browser to improve it?
#9475 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/25 00:34:26
At the very least, display the textures in some sort of size relative way. Let a 128x128 wall be 4 times larger than a 32x32 floor piece. I really dislike how they all get crammed into the same size box.
That alone would make it more useful for me.
#9476 posted by Spirit [213.39.146.182] on 2010/02/25 09:14:02
QuArK refreshes the textures each time you enter the texture browser. So if you have a big wad you will have to wait many seconds and then scroll down to your texture. Idiotic.
#9477 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/25 11:42:33
OK, haha, so it COULD be worse...
#9478 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/02/25 13:12:42
Mike
BSP questions.
1) Is there a way to manipulate verts in the 3D view? Like, drag them?
2) Barring that, is there a way to select a specific vertex and then go drag it in the 2D viewports? It's tough to do terrain with triangular brushes sometimes with the way I perceive this editor working.
Is In WC
#9479 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/02/25 15:40:36
sorry
you can select in 3D and then move in 2D. Very useful.
Heh - I never hide anything when mapping. Probably slows me down a lot. I just dont like the idea of having to be cautious about building into an area which already has brushes there because you couldnt see them.
You should see the 2D views from the side of my current map when zoomed out. White lines, black background, just like a big white blob.
I have to select things just to see where they are :O because when selected they show as red!
Im pretty sure that if I was working with a team of people that they would complain about it!
You Don't Use Visgroups Ricky?
#9480 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/02/25 15:42:02
They're Very Useful
#9481 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/25 15:50:12
Not so much for slowing your pc down, but more for selectively getting stuff out of the way.
My maps tend to have visgroups set up like this:
liquids
doors
buttons
details
With adding to the list as needed - the show entities option taking care of the rest.
Makes it alot simpler to build recesses for moving stuff, set up triggers and their areas, block stuff out, etc.
Hiding whole areas I don't bother with so much any more.
#9482 posted by [194.65.24.228] on 2010/02/25 16:30:03
that a shity thing in Quark :| but i love the editor... :)
I usualy dont use big wads...
visgroups? how? never try!!!
AFAIK WC Only Visgroups
#9483 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/02/25 18:15:31
Trinca, log in like normal people ;)
Willem
#9484 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/25 19:39:52
Texture settings are in the prefs menu: in standard set up it is the tool bar icon, top row, 5th one in from the right (pref). Your settings are in there. If you look at my screenshots from earlier you will see I have textures just as you suggest.
Axedskullglow is 128 x 128 and azwall3_1 is 64 x64
Just...
#9485 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/25 19:40:51
...select Textures from the drop down menu
#9486 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/25 19:56:26
Really? Hell yes! That will be great, thanks for the info!
But no love on 3D vertex manipulation?
Vertex Dragging In 3D
#9487 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/25 19:59:01
I haven't seen that in 3D (not that I have looked) but I tend to select the face in 3D and then manipulate in 2D. The 3D window updates in real-time anyway.
I have a scroll wheel mouse so I select face in 3D, move the mouse over whichever 2D window is relevant, scroll to zoom in or out, right click and drag to move the view around, manipulate brush using this method.
I have been playing with terrain on and off for ages and I have no problems.
A Bit More
#9488 posted by Mike Woodham [86.180.25.62] on 2010/02/25 20:06:05
Selecting a brush in 2D is just SHIFT and left click on the brush's centre x.
You can also change the selected face of a selected brush by left clicking close the the outside edge of the new face.
#9489 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/02/25 20:10:00
OK, just checking. I had 3D manipulation of stuff in ToeTag and it was hella useful. I'll just have to get used to this method for now then.
Thanks for all your help, BTW. It great to have someone to fill in the holes that I can't fill with the help docs.
Trinca
#9490 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/02/25 21:28:47
Hammer visgroups are groups in QuArK... as far as I know ;)
#9491 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/02/26 11:54:55
thanks JPL
Documentation Wanted ...
#9492 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/26 16:47:39
I was thinking of including some monsters from the mission pack(s).
Is there any documentation showing me what files I need to copy and how to write them into the WC fgd ?
I probably need to make a new pak then too, do I ?
If Anybody Is Up For It ...
#9493 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/02/26 16:59:00
There is something I can't do at all and that is making new monster models. I don't want to learn it either, I think others can do a better job anyway. But I've got this idea of creating a really tall (bigger than the Shambler) version of an Ogre, carrying a large hammer or axe, that is really fast and crushes a player with one good blow. It would be cool to make him act hostile toward any non-Ogres. Not an end boss or anything, just an occasional annoyance. Dodging, shooting and staying alive would be the way past him.
If you like the idea, I would love to use your skills ...
#9494 posted by negke [88.70.244.138] on 2010/02/27 11:14:52
Model: open ogre.mdl in QME. Scale it up. Delete the grenade launcher (+shoot animation) and the chainsaw. Paste an upscaled player axe minus the hand and move the vertices of the blades until they resemble a hammer (or simply use the Mjolnir mdl). Align the hammer to the smash animation.
QC: no idea.
I'm not going to do it. :)
I'm Up But Horns Blow My Shields,,,
#9495 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/06 06:05:49
I converted some monsters from DOE and SOA.
It's not such a difficult thing only qc is hard to extract as it worms all around.
I once tried the Gremlin for its weapon thievery.
I'm working on the Old Ogre so I could make something like that.
Ron
#9496 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/06 17:22:21
where's your ID or email?
Some Questions
#9497 posted by Drew [70.53.222.29] on 2010/03/08 08:15:29
Any help regarding any of these would be greatly apprecciated!
Textures - I am still unable to convert my Wads to HLwads. Does anyone know if there has been an updated version of Bakers wad conversion tool?
If not, what is the best way to go about converting the textures manually?
Curves - I have read and come to terms with CZG's 2 point curve technique. I was wondering if anyone could explain a nice clean way to extrapolate that into more detailed curves, using the arch tool or otherwise.
I usually find it impossible to keep my arches on grid/ at the right angles with the arch creation tool in WC 3.3.
Lights - How do I set spotlights up? Can detailed info be found on the Bengt page regarding that?
Thanks!
#9498 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/08 11:18:44
OK, well Im nt going to carry on about the texture conversion, but the other points:
Smooth Arches - I tend to do this by eye, looking from the side.
Lights - so make a spotlight ad the key "mangle" with the value "0 -90 0".
The first 0 can be changed of you want the light to point in a funny angle (it rotates the angle of projection through the x axis), the second number "-90" says to point directly at the floor. This could be -45 for example, if you wanted it to point down at 45 degrees. And the final number "0" is irrelevant, it is just a marker.
Drew
#9499 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/08 15:08:20
Are you on Vista?
Also, don't use any auto-creation tools in wc3.3 - they're all crap.
This is how I make 24 sided stuff -
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Which should serve for high detail curves.
If you go back in mapping help history a couple of pages you'll find a discussion on twists / spirals.
AutoCreation
#9500 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/08 15:10:22
I include the subtract / boolean / carve on the list of bad stuff.
It's even better to make your own circles using slice, instead of having to auto-make one, rotate it, then snap it to grid with vertex manipulation.
Vista?
#9501 posted by Drew [70.53.222.29] on 2010/03/09 10:47:10
... yeah.
Ricky - thanks for that explanation - seems simple enough!
Ijed - I've only used the arch tool once - in sm149 (hence the title "Brushwork of The Damned") and I never plan to use it again!
The aspect that confuses me is making a pathway or maybe a hollow tube that encircles that 24 sided cylinder. tightly. without being leaky or buggy or otherwise shitty.
I understand how to me to skew and clip a path like that around a 12 sided cylinder, but I'm at a loss regarding how to do that around a 24 sided cylinder.
Hope that makes some sense. If not oh well, it's late and my eyes are bleeding.
Texture Conversion
#9502 posted by ijed [190.20.97.188] on 2010/03/09 12:05:46
Right click on the tool and run as administrator - I think that's how it works. Or turn of UAC.
The jpg I sent shows you how to wrap stuff around a 24 sider though - if you try making pie slices out from the centre (same as for a 12 sided) you'll see it stays on grid.
Does take a bit more trial and error though.
Huh
#9503 posted by Drew [70.49.71.33] on 2010/03/09 23:32:33
I'll mess around with it.
It's one of those things - I want to learn how to do it "properly" but it's frustrating tinkering around when I could be making a fun interesting map that just so happens to have crappier brushwork.
it's a fine line, especially considering this is just a hobby. I only want to map for fun.
thanks again for your help guys, I appreciate you taking time to answer my stupid questions!
24 Sided Arch
#9504 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/10 19:17:53
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693...
How close is this to what ijed sent you, Drew? Can provide map file if you want.
I did it like this (in gtkradiant 1.4): Start with 24 sided cylinder, 256*256, using standard ratios. On an 8-unit grid, the ratios are: 2:0, 4:1, 4:2, 3:3, 2:4, 1:4, 0:2.
Then copy it and scale it up 1.5x, and again 2.0x, radiant can do this scaling easily. Then draw imaginary lines from the center to the edges, the points should match up (pie slices as ijed says).
Now... wrapping a hollow cylinder around a cylinder... is possible, but a fucking headache, and it's actually somewhat editor dependent as to what's possible or not. Last time I looked at the problem, it was simply not possible in Radiant to wrap a 12 sided hollow pipe around a 12 sided cylinder, because of, well I'm not sure exactly, but it has to do with how radiant won't let you make invalid concave brushes like worldcraft will. That old "CZG curve tutorial" is somewhat useless in radiant because they handle skewing and group edge dragging completely differently.
However it is entirely possible to wrap a simpler, 8-sided cylinder around a 12 sided one. It should be possible to do the same around a 24-sided cylinder, though I'm not sure if I've ever tried. If you do, make the pieces really big so it fits on grid. In the above screenshot, the arch goes down to 2 and 4 unit grid already.
Almost The Same
#9505 posted by ijed [190.20.94.157] on 2010/03/10 22:23:07
But mine's on a bigger grid - the principle's there but like you say, so're the different editor techniques.
Since the finalised shapes from wrapping around are valid have you tried figuring out a Radiant method from a .map made in another editor?
Curves In Radiant
#9506 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.18.13] on 2010/03/10 23:35:36
I remember that I used the clipping tool a lot for wrapping curves. You can use it to cut the wall brushes of a pipe and other shapes very easily simply by drawing them from the center out to a point that is on the grid. The end points must however be chosen so that adjacent clipping lines all have the same angles (e.g. 360 / 24). I think I did that by creating a very large cylinder with for example 24 sides whose vertices were aligned on the grid.
Dunno if this makes sense, but I do remember that making curves was very easy this way. Also, you can extend this method to 3D using clipping planes, but it's obviously more work.
Clarification
#9507 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.18.13] on 2010/03/10 23:37:51
The clipping lines for any curve brushes extend from the center of the curve to the vertices of the "guide" cylinder.
Also, remember that brush vertices don't need to be aligned on the grid since the brush faces are not defined by the vertices, but by three coplanar points. Radiant handles this very well, as opposed to other editors (QERadiant that is).
Also
#9508 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.18.13] on 2010/03/10 23:38:39
Working with the brushes that make up the curve is very easy in Radiant due to its face dragging feature.
Grahf
#9509 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.18.13] on 2010/03/10 23:40:03
I see you are using Radiant in Mac OS X there. How did you set it up? I tried it several times, but it never worked for me. Can you give me some hints? Which version is that?
#9510 posted by Drew [70.49.71.33] on 2010/03/11 01:50:22
thanks grahf - I'd appreciate it if you'd send the editor - i'll try it out!
Another Question
#9511 posted by Drew [70.49.71.33] on 2010/03/11 01:53:53
probably a dumb one, but probably easy to answer.
fade attenuation value?
Wee, Fun Stuff! This Is Gonna Be Long
#9512 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/11 05:29:49
Sleepwalker: the short answer:
http://redsaurus.net/gtkradiant/ <-forum
http://www.redsaurus.net/macradian... <- should be universal binary installer
The long answer is, the short answer probably doesnt't help much at all. Half that forum is outdated information, the other half is info about useless games like Jedi Academy. The installer and some useful stuff is on there somewhere, though. I'll start from the very beginning because I don't know how far you got.
I am on PowerPC/Tiger and I suspect you are on Intel/Leopard, which is a minor hurdle but not insurmountable. I did have it installed on 10.5 for a while, but this old laptop just didn't get along with Leopard too well.
Install X11 first, nothing will run otherwise. In Tiger this came on the install discs, on Leopard get the latest from http://xquartz.macosforge.org/
OK, inside the DMG I linked to, you find GTKRadiants 1.4 and 1.5, and a Packs installer. There is some documentation in there, but it's not incredibly helpful. Run the Packs Installer; there is no Q1 pack, but it needs to find at least one game to install some files that Radiant needs, so point it at a Q3 installation. Put the Radiants whereever you want on your HD, it will just change the file paths we'll be editing later. I personally hate gtkr 1.5 with a passion, so everything that follows will be for 1.4.
Load that bad boy up and see if it runs. Oops, it almost certainly doesn't. You'll need this: http://www.redsaurus.net/macradian...
For more info on getting that to run, I'll refer you to:
http://tremmapping.pbworks.com/Gtk...
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Ma...
http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtop...
I don't have an Intel Mac (yet), so I hope that helps enough to at least get the thing to open. The NetRadiant fork may be easier to get up and running, but it's 1.5 based, so bleh.
Quake 1 support section! Once it at least runs, close it again, and do View Package Contents -> Resources -> sw -> radiant14. Hey look, it's the actual Radiant folder, buried in the app package. From here on, the process parallels what Tigger-On describes here, configuring Radiant for Quake: http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
find the games folder, copy q3.game and name it q1.game, change some stuff. Mine looks like:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" standalone="yes"?>
<game
name="Quake 1 / Nehahra"
gametools= "/Applications / Games / Quake1 / pathofthesoul / MacRadiant14.app / Contents / Resources / sw / radiant14 / q1"
basegame="id1"
enginepath= "/Applications / Games / Quake1"
engine="Fitzquake.app"
prefix=".q1"
default_scale="1"
/>
Adjust accordingly. I added those weird spaces just now so the forum doesnt freak out, but you get the idea. Notice I have "Quake1" not "Quake 1" though, I might have done this because because Radiant didn't like seeing any spaces in its file path.
Now you can put stuff into id1/textures, id1/scripts, id1/maps, etc., just like on PC, yay. I later tried to get clever with project files and point it to a mod directory parallel to id1, which kinda works.
Ah, one last thing. every time you try to open or save a map, the file dialog probably isn't pointing to where you want it, and the GTK file dialog box is pretty shit. In your home folder, there is a hidden folder with the name given in the "prefix" line of the .game file, usually this is ".q3a" but I changed it to ".q1". Inside should be a folder with the name of the basegame directory, which probably will be "id1." Inside that folder, make unix symlinks to your actual working maps and scripts folders. The documentation file in the .dmg we downloaded has a simple method of finding the path, and a contextual menu plugin to make the symlinking easier.
It's worth noting, Sleepwalkr, that I'd have given up at this years ago if it weren't for your java mapconverter - works like a charm in OSX! So thanks for that.
Drew
#9513 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/11 05:47:18
It's just 1kb, zipped.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qjnimzdj...
If Sleepwalker Can Quadruple Post, I Can Too
#9514 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/11 05:53:36
Everything Sleepwalker said about wrapping hollow pipes around cylinders is correct. That is exactly how I did it, it's just been a while.
Grahf
#9515 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.1.243] on 2010/03/11 08:38:35
Awesome, thank you very much for your detailed instructions. I'll surely try this out tonight, hopefully I can get it running finally. Cool to see my old mapconverter is still being used!
Quake.pal
#9516 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.189.125] on 2010/03/12 04:34:23
please?
found this whilst i was looking for a quake.pal palette file for Paint Shop Pro, which was interesting:
http://www.studio-erebus.com/studi...
Scroll down for some quakey stuff....
Anyway could anyone really help me out and point me in the direction for a qauke.pal file, because i cant find a tool to convert palette.lmp to .pal format, or whatever it is im supposed to do here.....
Starbuck, heeeellllllpppppp!!!!!
Metl....?
Do This
#9517 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/12 05:44:09
1. open a quake texture in photoshop
2. export the palette
3. profit
4. ???
To get a quake paletted texture, open a wad in texmex or whatever, and export it in an 8bit format (gif or pcx should work). The texture has the whole palette embedded in it.
On Wrapping Curves Around Other Curves
#9518 posted by Blitz [98.232.102.255] on 2010/03/12 15:01:15
Grahf:
I don't know if this is true or not, but I I'm pretty sure I remember someone saying that there's a setting in GTKRadiant where you can toggle it to behave like Worldcraft so you can make concave brushes and save a little time on doing curves around curves that way.
Anyone confirm this?
#9519 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/03/12 15:21:54
What does it do with the concave brushes? Carve them up at MAP export time? That sounds ... dangerous.
Hang On
#9520 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/12 16:15:03
there are no concave brushes in WC. If one is made then it's invalid - you can still vertex edit it back into validity though, but for curving stuff I only use slice. Sometimes vertex edit if I screw it up, but that's only to get it back on grid / properly aligned.
Quake.pal
#9521 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/12 16:36:14
OK, well thanks for the solution Grahf, but unfortunately I left my copy of Photoshop on the bus last week and.....
So no-one here can hook me up with a .pal file with the Quake palette!?!?
Man how this forum has changes :(
(sulk)
#9522 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2010/03/12 16:52:10
GIMP I think has all or most of the funcionality that Photoshop has and is free. It probably has a palette export option (but I rarely use my copy of GIMP so I don't know for sure.)
#9523 posted by gb [89.27.244.152] on 2010/03/12 16:59:43
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Found this in my wally folder. GIMP can export palettes, but they're not in the same format as POS it seems.
Anyway. Is this the right thing?
Dude You Are A Lifesaver :)
#9524 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/12 17:19:03
I think its the right thing, I will try it when I get home! :)
Sorry, Missed That
#9525 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/12 18:08:55
There's one in RMQ's gfx folder.
There Also Is One On My Harddisk...
#9526 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.231] on 2010/03/12 18:56:51
http://ftp.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
Vertex Editing In Radiant, Palette Map
#9527 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/12 19:14:04
Blitz: The option is "vertex editing splits the polygon" or something. It doesn't actually help the problem, instead it just sends you to vertex editing hell, where all your faces are split into two triangles, and you still can't pull the vertices where you want them, because even with that option enabled it won't let you make an invalid brush.
The way to do the "pipe around a pipe" thing really is as sleepwalkr said, with clipping and face dragging. Maybe I should make a little visual tutorial.
Ricky: Have patience. Also, I found something quake palette related, nice little index of which color is which colormap number.
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718...
#9528 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2010/03/12 19:28:49
Radiant vertex editing should be avoided if at all possible.
Well
#9529 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.27.39] on 2010/03/12 21:54:23
Vertex editing should be avoided period. All you need is clipping and face dragging to shape brushes. It avoids a lot of problems and lets you create shapes that are very hard to get right with vertex editing if you get a little creative.
Ricky
#9530 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/13 00:23:06
Ain't you got Wally installed?
There's a q1.pal in it.
Heh`
#9531 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.29.92] on 2010/03/13 03:20:45
Guess I was wrong.
This is still the forum I thought it was. Im sorry I ever doubted.....
Actually thanks a lot guys, I have no excuses now ;)
You Drama Queen!
#9532 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/13 09:56:22
Basic Question....
#9533 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/03/13 10:38:37
.. I never experimented monster jump: is there any map example "for the same" (<- Indy style wording) :P
Or couldn't somebody explain me how it works ?
#9534 posted by meTch [69.183.41.20] on 2010/03/13 12:44:03
i think that's how the ogres jump down and attack you in....errr...that map...uhh... when the doors shut and the ogres are above you, maybe in episode 3?
#9535 posted by spy [92.47.186.223] on 2010/03/13 12:56:56
.. I never experimented monster jump: is there any map example "for the same" (<- Indy style wording) :P
Or couldn't somebody explain me how it works ?
e3m7 the haunted halls,
Just Like Quoth's Trigger_drolejump
#9536 posted by generic [67.233.176.237] on 2010/03/13 13:51:26
trigger_drolejump
angle
speed
height
Used as described above to fling enraged droles in a specified direction. Identical to a trigger_monsterjump, set the "angle" key for the direction the drole will jump, "speed" for the number of units/sec the drole will move horizontally and "height" for the number of units/sec vertically.
Thanks
#9537 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/03/13 21:41:27
I'll check it !
Db_rock05
#9538 posted by [Jimbo] [24.128.2.62] on 2010/03/14 04:36:44
I came across an old backup cd with an unfinished map from 2005 on it but I don't have all of the texture wads to with.
Does anyone know what wad has the texture db_rock05?
it must be an outside dirt / rock type texture as the brushes are in an outside area.
Maybe...
#9539 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/03/14 08:59:20
... it is from bulowad (or bulowad2) texture set
Check it out there http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/
Thanks
#9540 posted by [Jimbo] [99.64.83.17] on 2010/03/14 22:30:36
Thanks JPL!
bulowad2 is the one.
Can Anyone Think Of
#9541 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.29.92] on 2010/03/15 23:10:56
different versions of the Quake 2 textures?
either in maps or wads or zips or whatever?
Im particularly interested in any quake1 maps which use ported Quake 2 textures. I have the full intention of finding some textures which are better than the ported Quake 2 textures in quaddicted/wads.
I can do my own conversions but my attempts at converting the stock quake 2 textures or the standard hires replacements has had funky coloured results........
#9542 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/15 23:17:58
metl's oblivion?
Waterfall Sound?
#9543 posted by Drew [65.94.244.197] on 2010/03/16 06:54:27
is there a waterfall sound in the quoth pack?
what is it called if so?
Necros
#9544 posted by gb [89.27.207.35] on 2010/03/16 08:14:14
That's what I told him. Oblivion is nice.
Like Endless Rain Into A Paper Cup...
#9545 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/03/16 09:51:45
There is a waterfall sound, the path to it is
sounds/necros/water6.wav
Correction
#9546 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/03/16 09:54:07
Sound is of course singular in the quake directory structure, so I meant to put:
sound/necros/water6.wav
Then again, when you add paths to call sounds you have to omit that directory name anyway.
Worldcraft 3.3 Question
#9547 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/03/16 13:36:27
Every time I go to the Check for Problems tool I get a list of errors that are no real errors, like this :
"The entity contains keyvalues that are not used in its class. You can fix this error with the Fix button."
I've not tried using the fix button, I'm not sure if the entities will be deleted if I do.
Anyone know how I can get rid of this problem ?
It's quite annoying because the Check for problems tool is quite useful for pointing out mistakes with vector manipulation.
Wellllll
#9548 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/16 14:19:46
This comes from the keys which are specified for each class in the FGD file. Its not a "real" problem, and clicking on fix wont remove the entity. Infact clicking on fix wont do anything really!!!
All of the "real" problems are usually at the bottom of the list. I always start at the bottom of that list and work up. You get any illegal brush errors there, or bad textures etc.
One thing which you get in WC is brush models with no volume (no brushes attached) which are often situated at position 0,0,0. You can delete these by clocking on goto error, closing the "find problems" dialogue and pressing delete ;)
Something Cool For WC3.3 Users:
#9549 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/16 14:23:23
http://games.softpedia.com/get/Too...
This link is to a hammer.exe file which you can put in your WC DIR and then just run from there.
Then you can see how similar Hammer 3.5 is to WC 3.3! (its sooo similar i only noticed one real difference - you can load pointfiles and see them in the 3D window. in 3.3 they would only show up in the 2D views).
Ron:
#9550 posted by rj [128.243.253.115] on 2010/03/16 14:33:46
Anyone know how I can get rid of this problem ?
just open the fgd file, find the relevant entity (or baseclass) and add any used keys that aren't there.. voila, errors be gone!
#9551 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/03/16 15:38:04
Thanks a lot !
I'll have a look at .5, I take it the Quake adapter will work for that version too ?
Yeah
#9552 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/16 16:02:45
Well that's what I mean. I ran into this file whilst looking for a hammer installer. All I did was drop the only file in the archive (600kb) which was hammer.exe into the Worldcraft directory and clicked on the exe. I had already been using the Quakeadapter WC3.3 setup and this seems to use the same configs and everything.
Its not an installer, its a program.exe file :)
Hm
#9553 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/16 16:16:56
Will take a look at that.
Don't use the fix button for that error message - what it does is delete all the keys it thinks are broken - so it removes all your entity configurations.
Need to get the RMQ fgd to stop reporting that crap.
In fact the only time you want to use Fix or Fix All is when you get a Texture Axis perpendicular to Face. The rest of the time it's best to just use the problems thing to find it, then fix the thing yourself. Like you've been doing from the sounds of it.
The perpendicular texture thing causes a corrupt bsp - and the chances are you won't even notice it since it doesn't affect all OS' / setups. Its caused when manipulating objects with vertex editing / slice.
Preach
#9554 posted by Drew [65.94.244.197] on 2010/03/16 17:36:52
hahaha thanks!
Forgotten
#9555 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/17 01:06:46
corps_removal?
#9556 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/18 05:32:10
add to def.qc:
void () CorpseThink =
{
self.think = SUB_Remove;
self.nextthink = time + 30 + random() * 30;
};
All monsters in last death animation (ie example shambler):
void() sham_death11 =[ $death11, CorpseThink ] {};
Gtkradiant
#9557 posted by negke [88.70.77.48] on 2010/03/18 10:57:38
Thanks to Ricky who owes me 90 bucks Quest doesn't work on Win7 64bit and the Virual XP Mode doesn't help either, because of some fullscreen issue.
Gtkradiant 1.5 then (couldn't get the newer branches to run, there's no fool-proof installer/pack). What's really bothering me, though, is that one is so restricted to the entity definitions. You can't use custom entities without adding them to the def file first. So there's some stuff I can't do and don't know how to change it. For example, triggers are defined as brush-based and it's impossible to use them as point ents (and vice versa, e.g. an info_notnull with a brush) - doing so, Gtkradiant will disregard their position/dimensions in the display windows and move them all to the map origin.
What can I do about it? Is there an option to make the editor less anal about such things?
New PC Negke?
#9558 posted by ijed [190.20.104.103] on 2010/03/18 11:51:59
Try another editor maybe. There's bsp editor and maybe soon thanks to willem / ericw Toetag windows edition.
QuArK as well - although I hate the interface.
I think I remember you saying you hated the one from WC.
It's a pain upgrading OS. None of the Quake stuff just works any more.
Negke
#9559 posted by RickyT23 [217.42.132.38] on 2010/03/18 12:44:18
I told you I was dual booting XP and Windows 7, and the way I see it is you havent lost anything, only the ability to run a REALLY old piece of software.
Try using Hammer.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!
Pointing Fingers
#9560 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/03/18 12:54:20
Worldcraft/hammer is only slightly more flexable about interchanging point entities for brush entities. If you remove the definition of an entity from the fgd file, then you can place it as either, which is helpful for func_illusionary. It does mean that you lose all the smart edit functions though, so for anything more complicated than func_illusionary it gets annoying.
The hack we incorportated into quoth was to create a series of wrapper functions like:
void() func_wall_point =
{
self.classname = "func_wall";
func_wall();
}
You can then define a "point" version of the entity in the def file.
I suppose you could also do this with a preprocessor of your map file added to the compile process. It could just do a find and replace in the .map file of "funcpoint" for "func". Assuming you never use the phrase in text fields or textures. Replacing
"classname" "funcpoint
with
"classname" "func
might be safer...
#9561 posted by negke [88.70.77.48] on 2010/03/18 13:03:29
ijed: Quark? lol
Ricky: So do I. But I told I would come back and complain no matter what. I actually might use a hammer on this computer sooner or later (and then come back to you to complain).
Preach: Yeah, I guess editing the def file and dublicate the entities in question is the only way. I don't need the smart edit functions except for the difficulty spawnflags.
#9562 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.25] on 2010/03/18 13:09:01
Just run Quest in Linux in Virtualbox?
Wc
#9563 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/18 13:11:21
Smart Edit are the only functions you keep if there's no entry in the .fgd - then you can just add and remove keys by typing them in.
You have to keep copy pasting entities though to not fill them out by hand. Which gets very annoying, as does the 'using invalid keys' report.
On the other hand a fgd is easy to write and amend and lets you set your own default values for stuff like lights.
We use a similar wrapper list for backwards and cross compatibility. I think doing Find/Replace on each compile would get irritating quickly.
#9564 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/03/18 14:33:50
negke
Quark is POWER!!!
Stop using lames editors!
Is about time u get pro... and Quark is easy and fast!
Negke
#9565 posted by gb [89.27.196.241] on 2010/03/18 16:22:03
Interesting point about Radiant's inflexibility wrt point/brush entities.
Hadn't noticed actually, because I prefer to code in QC instead of in the map editor :-P
Negke
#9566 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/18 16:49:44
Is using GTKRadiant 1.4 an option for you? I don't recall it being so restrictive about entities.
In Defense Of Find/replace
#9567 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/03/18 20:31:14
I was assuming that you would make the find/replace a part of your batch file you use to compile maps, so once you had set it up you'd never need to do it again. I'm sure this is easy to do with grep, but I don't know the syntax myself. It's possible to do with FOR /F in a windows batch file, but good luck to you if you try. It would be hacker friendly at least, as it doesn't require a custom progs.
Hm
#9568 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/03/18 21:34:47
That would work fine yeah.
Grahf
#9569 posted by negke [88.70.53.122] on 2010/03/19 17:13:07
There was something about 1.4 I didn't like and which felt better in 1.5. Couldn't find a Q1 version of 1.4 so I haven't tested it again.
1.4 Vs 1.5
#9570 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/19 18:36:47
Does 1.5 still use the .def/.qc file format for entity lists? Because in 1.4, and all other Radiants going way back in time, it will parse the /* QUAKED */ entity notes straight out of a qc file. The format is dead simple too. I recall 1.5 and later changing the format to some byzantine XML monstrosity. I think you are actually right about Radiant not wanting to convert something it thinks is a point entity to a brush ent, and vice versa, because what I have in my .def file is two info_notnull entities, like this:
/*QUAKED info_notnull (0 0.5 0) (-4 -4 -4) (4 4 4) */
/*QUAKED info_notnull (0 0.5 0) ? */
The first is a point ent, you can see it has a bounding box. The second is a brush ent, its size is "?," i.e., whatever you make it. Inside the comment brackets I've dumped some of the cool hacks from the "teaching an old progs.dat new tricks" thread, so I can refer to them easily.
Radiant 1.5 changed the interface in a lot of subtlety annoying ways to make it more like a 3D modelling prog. If that suits you, cool, but it sure didn't do it for me.
With 1.4 you have to go through a texture and game file converting process to get it working correctly for Q1, which is described here:
http://industri.sourceforge.net/ho...
Actually you should try Sikkpin's QuakeEd, it's all the goodness of oldschool Radiant, specifically built for Q1:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
No gamepacks, reads wads directly.
#9571 posted by gb [89.27.236.183] on 2010/03/19 21:47:50
1.5 can use both, either XML or .def.
It seems to dislike /* ... */ for anything else than entity definitions - I had to change all my comments to
//
//
I'm not going back to Quest though. I map five times faster in Radiant.
You can set it to use .def files in the config file. It comes with a vanilla Quake XML entity file though.
#9572 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2010/03/19 22:35:29
The latest version of 1.5 is not my friend, I do not like it,I want SPoG back working on it to get it back to how it was when 1.5 was 'new.' This latest version has very uncool features that I wish were removed and/or reverted. I am considering switching to Ogier.
/rant
#9573 posted by negke [88.70.60.245] on 2010/03/20 10:49:49
Grahf: Having to go through a texture conversion process every time I want to try a new wad sounds like hell of a hassle. :/
Could you send me your .def file? If 1.5 supports .def files as well, this might be an option. So far, I worked around the restriction issue by simply deleting the four or five conflicting entities from the default def.
gb: It definitely feels like a fast editor. Many current nitpicks are probably just matters of unfamiliarity that disappear once one gets used to the program after a while. I wouldn't even consider the def thing a major issue. However, there are other things I'm not sure of in the long run. I kind of get the feeling the way it works affects the shapes of my brushwork. Creating complex architecure, particularly of the trisoup type, must be a lot more difficult if not impossible?). The 2d hide/group function might be a sluggy, too. I wish there was an additional farclip option.
How do select entities in 2d mode? Through brushes and possbily cycling through all entities on the same plane (like alt+shift+click does for brushes).
Zwiffle: Like what? I assume you're talking about the latest nightly build (which I use) and not the stable version? What I find annoying, for instance, are things like the target/name change when cloning entities.
(I probably wrote the same stuff before..)
#9574 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/20 18:52:19
How do select entities in 2d mode? Through brushes and possbily cycling through all entities on the same plane (like alt+shift+click does for brushes).
yes, they are selected just like brushes.
#9575 posted by negke [88.70.85.4] on 2010/03/20 19:30:08
Indeed, I see it now. Must have done something wrong yesterday then.
Texture Values Cleared?
#9576 posted by Drew [65.92.24.239] on 2010/03/21 07:18:06
I hadn't looked on the speedmap I mentioned a while back for a bit now... too busy with school.
I opened it up from my computer just now (not from within WC), and now all the textures values are cleared!
anything that was scaled down, or shifted has gone back to 0!
Any idea what happened there?
I haven't even checked what the entity values are like!
...
okay, they seem fine...
Is there a way to fix this, besides readjusting everything manually?
...it's pretty simple map so if that's what I have to do it won't suck that much.
How Can This Be?
#9577 posted by negke [88.70.240.50] on 2010/03/21 11:06:02
Perhaps each of the editors uses a slightly different map format. Better finish the map in WC then.
Also try to get generic and/or Zwiffle to make a speedmap, too.
Oh Hey
#9578 posted by negke [88.70.240.50] on 2010/03/21 11:20:31
Just found this: http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
Nice tutorial, gb.
Netradiant sounds like something I should give a try - if it's indeed like 1.5 with additional features. E.g. being able to change the keyboard shortcuts.
Yes
#9579 posted by ijed [190.20.81.67] on 2010/03/21 12:16:21
WC has a unique texture system - that's how it does proper locking and a couple of other tricks.
Netradiant
#9580 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/03/21 14:11:27
So far it gives me some memory error every single time on load, ctrl+tab doesn't go to the next view like it said, it crashes when loading certain .wad files.
>:(
#9581 posted by negke [88.70.240.50] on 2010/03/21 15:10:58
My main niggle with it is that minimizing it causes all windows (I use detached windows for 2d, textures, camera) to minimize individually, and when returning it from the task bar, they all stay minimized.
#9582 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/03/21 17:24:12
Yeah, that's a pain in the ass too, and kind of freaked me out when it happened.
Whoa There
#9583 posted by gb [89.27.208.209] on 2010/03/21 17:47:16
> ctrl+tab doesn't go to the next view
that sucks. I'll have to install Netradiant and filter out these differences :-/
You would think they wouldn't change something as important as this. Maybe the key bindings menu will help.
Linux has no "windows inside windows" feature as far as I know - it has draggable borders between the viewports - that sounds terribly like Windows 3.11. Workgroups, right?
#9584 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.108] on 2010/03/21 18:06:58
Ctrl-Tab works. Sometimes it is not doing it right but that seems to be a focus issue. Going to 3D view and back fixes it for me.
Anti-fud
#9585 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.108] on 2010/03/21 18:17:50
And you can use floating windows just fine if you want. Your window manager controls them! Yes, you get one item in the taskbar per window, just like GIMP did it. With workspaces that is very very handy.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Drew - Worldcraft Texutre Loading Problem:
#9586 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.98.107] on 2010/03/21 19:14:31
I think you might have loaded the .map file instead of the .rmf file.
RMF format includes valve 220 texture protocol (supported by TxQbsp), but the .map format wont allow you to load the information back into your editor.
So basically you have to always save your .rmf file, then save your .map file then do a compile. Then when you go back to re-edit the map you need to laod the .rmf file.
If you accidentally loaded a .map file, then did a compile from there without noticing that the textures were mis-aligned then it will have overwritten the .rmf file with the .map file's texture info and you will have lost it.
I would set .map file to default to a text editors format, so they all have a text editor icon.
Quake1 .def
#9587 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/03/21 19:29:22
there's one bundled with sleepwalkr's mapcon
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net...
this one has some tenebrae stuff in it apparently?
http://industri.sourceforge.net/tx...
It's just a text file. Negke, open it up and find info_notnull, and paste the brush info_notnull entity into there, without deleting the point info_notnull. Put a note inside the /* comment */ to remind yourself which is which, as there will be two entries in the entity list. Like this:
/*QUAKED info_notnull (0 0.5 0) ?
Invisible entity. Used for clever hacks.
*/
Ahaha Yeah You're Right!
#9588 posted by Drew [174.89.242.104] on 2010/03/21 19:35:20
what a weiner! I just patched it up anyways, I think there were like 8 textures that needed alignment in the whole map.
thanks ricky, you're awesome!
Spirit
#9589 posted by gb [89.27.208.209] on 2010/03/21 19:52:51
Interesting, I don't think I can do that though. I don't even have a taskbar, I use openbox :)
Not FUD, anyway. I'm not sure if you're aware that FUD has a super-negative meaning; I don't think my post deserved that.
NP :D
#9590 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.98.107] on 2010/03/21 20:00:55
I have made the same mistake more times than I care to mention :S
Grahf
#9591 posted by negke [88.70.55.253] on 2010/03/22 09:38:33
Thanks. Doesn't seem to work in 1.5, though. It only recognizes one entry per name.
I guess I'll have to go with Preach's suggestion for now (into_notnull_brush->find/repla... Because as it turned out, deleting the entry altogether works for info_notnull, but makes the program treat triggers like point ents.
Backpack?
#9592 posted by Drew [74.14.183.158] on 2010/03/27 22:24:47
Hey,
How do you make an ammo backpack in quake/quoth, and how do you set what goes in it...
can you put health in there?
Also
What is a good sound for a large, slowly spinning cog in quoth? I tried the one that goes with dias.wav, but it's not the best.
it's a big cog.
kind of like that one in sm156_necros...
Hlwad
#9593 posted by Dave [212.183.140.32] on 2010/03/28 00:58:36
I can't seem to convert wads to hlwad, I get this message...
Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\decon.hl... ... details ...No log exists.
Error creating HLWAD: c:\program files\worldcraft\textures\zerstöre... ... details ...No log exists.
I'm on win7 is that makes a difference.
Also is there a way to brighten the 3d view in Wc3.3
Thank you.
Player Backpack And Ghost Medkit
#9594 posted by negke [88.70.239.186] on 2010/03/28 11:50:01
"classname" "info_notnull"
"think" "PlaceItem"
"nextthink" ".3"
"touch" "BackpackTouch"
"model" "progs/backpack.mdl"
"modelindex" "##" // look it up on the edicts list
"ammo_shells" "##"
"ammo_nails" "##"
"ammo_rockets" "##"
"ammo_cells" "##" // if 0, just leave the field out
"items" "##" // values from defs.qc, e.g. 32=RL
"netname" "abc" // for the 'You got the abc' message if weapons are given
For this to work properly in DP, you may need to add "maxs" "16 16 56".
Obviously, you can't give the player health through a backpack. But you can put an invisible medkit in the same spot so it gets picked up automatically.
"classname" "info_notnull"
"think" "PlaceItem"
"nextthink" ".3"
"touch" "health_touch"
"healtype" "#" // 0 or 1 for <100, 2 for <250 (MH)
"healamount" "###"
"model" "maps/b_bh25.bsp" // if precached - or use backpack/player.mdl instead for the bbox
Leaving the modelindex field out will make the item invisible, yet still functional.
Again, "maxs" "32 32 56" for DP and, if you want it not to play the health pickup sound, "noise" "misc/null.wav".
Quoth Compatibility
#9595 posted by negke [88.70.239.186] on 2010/03/28 12:07:29
Keep in mind though that Quoth 2 handles some of the models differently, which results in different modelindex values. So unless you add a Quoth detection system, a backpack that shows properly in id1 will use a different model in Quoth 2 (and vice versa, even though this isn't really a problem).
Also, the second "maxs" field in the post above should read "16 16 56" of course.
Maxs
#9596 posted by negke [88.70.239.186] on 2010/03/28 12:10:10
Gah. Actually "32 32 56" is correct.
Hrm
#9597 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/28 13:14:44
what goes wrong in DP without maxs being set?
used backpacks for ammo in the speedmap i did earlier this week but didn't know about that
#9598 posted by negke [88.70.239.186] on 2010/03/28 13:51:21
I encountered an issue in my coag map where you couldn't pick up the item in DP if it didn't have the maxs field. However, I actually can't remember if it was a backpack or another item. I just tried another map that has a backpack without said field and it worked in DP. So I'm not sure if it was just something related to the DP build I used back then or a mistake on my part. Sorry for the confusion.
Negke
#9599 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/03/28 13:57:15
Awesome trick !!!
Lol
#9600 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/28 23:49:04
I tried to give the sewrpent a squaddamage backpack. Think I didn't knew it was a serpent.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/quadd...
Then
#9601 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/03/28 23:54:47
I copied the void()BackPackTouch and DropBackPack function as new in ITEMS.QC
as I couldn't see a skeleton dropping one.
Its own weapon makes more sense.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/backp...
Cool Stuff
#9602 posted by ijed [190.20.81.218] on 2010/03/29 01:30:08
#9603 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/29 08:51:23
would anyone be interested in like a gui that takes the place of a batch file?
i making one for myself, but if people want it, i'll make it pretty looking and bug test it.
^^^
#9604 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/29 21:51:00
mm, i guess that's what i get for posting so late at night...
what i meant was a gui that compiles q1 maps. i would allow you to easily toggle stuff like -fast and such and move your files around and such.
I'd Be Interested
#9605 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/29 21:52:19
#9606 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/29 21:56:52
cool, maybe in like a couple of days. fyi, it's just visual basic, cause i don't actually know how to program. ^_^;
Map Building On Linux
#9607 posted by [Jimbo] [65.51.223.178] on 2010/03/29 22:41:32
Hi Guys,
I think this has been asked before but atm I can't find the answer...
Are there Quake Map Build tools that can be run on Linux?
Thanks,
jimbo
#9608 posted by negke [88.70.70.55] on 2010/03/30 21:40:02
Editors: Quest, Gtkradiant
Compilers: Bengt Jardrup's tools work fine on Wine. gb ported some of them to Linux once, but I don't have a link at hand.
As Mentioned
#9609 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/30 22:57:28
here's the compiler gui i was talking about...
instructions to use it are on this page:
http://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/2...
most of the stuff should be fairly obvious, but the 'instructions' are lengthy and pretty verbose. ask if anything explodes though.
Looks Nice
#9610 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/31 00:31:37
two things though..
the vis option should be 'level 4', not 'level4', get an error with the latter
'+map whatever' should just be added automatically behind the scenes rather than requiring to be typed in. if you've selected the 'run quake' option you probably aren't going to want to load a different map to the one you're compiling :)
and it needs an icon ;)
Hrm
#9611 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/31 01:01:03
thinking about it, that second thing should probably account for more than just mapname, and figure out the gamedir/path as well, based on what is set as the output folder. is that something that would be easy to do?
say if i keep my created bsps in id1/maps/other, it would do '+map other/[mapname]'
yet if someone decided to put them in quoth/maps/other, it could work out that '-game quoth +map other/[mapname]' would need to be entered...
Making Hlwad's
#9612 posted by roblot [216.106.105.138] on 2010/03/31 01:42:23
This works for me
1. Make a "logs" folder inside the
wordcraft\textures folder.
2. Create a new .txt document in same folder,
and copy the following:
wadconv.exe -wad2hl mywad.wad>logs\mywad.log
exit
3. Rename the .txt document to:
mywad.bat
4. Rename any .wad your converting to:
mywad.wad
5. Then rename it zerstorer.wad or whatever it is.
Don't know about Win7 though.
#9613 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/03/31 01:45:02
You can (should be able to) do all the renaming stuff in the .bat too, using parameters and whatnot so you don't have to do so many manual renamings.
Thank You
#9614 posted by Gib [212.183.140.34] on 2010/03/31 01:55:28
That worked great.
Err
#9615 posted by roblot [216.106.107.84] on 2010/03/31 02:21:37
Step 5 should be...
5. Double click mywad.bat
6. Then rename it zerstorer.hlwad or whatever
it is.
Rj
#9616 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/31 03:15:56
regarding +map, you're right, it should probably just do that automatically.
but for things like -game or whatever, i don't want to add any automation because each engine does it differently.
say if i keep my created bsps in id1/maps/other, it would do '+map other/[mapname]'
yet if someone decided to put them in quoth/maps/other, it could work out that '-game quoth +map other/[mapname]' would need to be entered...
but say for example, i wanted to run a mod folder outside of quoth (so you can make your own pak files), fitzquake has -quoth, but darkplaces uses multiple -game
so if you were running a mod folder of quoth, you'd do:
fq -quoth -game mod +map map
dp -game quoth -game mod +map map
also, the output folder wouldn't be a quoth folder, so there's no way for the program to tell if it's a quoth map or just a normal mod map.
as for the problem with vis -level 4 vs level4, i just put those in quick. you can edit any of those buttons by right clicking them and choosing 'edit', so the gui should work with all compilers.
#9617 posted by rj [128.243.253.108] on 2010/03/31 13:02:46
as for the problem with vis -level 4 vs level4, i just put those in quick. you can edit any of those buttons by right clicking them and choosing 'edit', so the gui should work with all compilers.
ah right, missed that bit 8)
fair comments on the mod folders i guess. quoth was just the first example that came to mind but forgot you could use external directories with it. i'd still love the folder within 'maps' to be picked up though as well as the name as i keep all of my own maps in '/other'
Linux Map Build Tools
#9618 posted by [Jimbo] [65.51.223.178] on 2010/03/31 21:56:37
Thanks negke
I managed to find this site: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/...
which has the port of bjptools you mentioned.
Doing good with that so far.
Have you tried running hammer in wine?
Ne_q1spCompilingGui V1.0.1
#9619 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/03/31 22:10:37
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
updated it so it launches the map automatically for you when running quake. it can figure out if your maps are in /maps or /maps/other or even /maps/any/number/of/folders.
<3
#9620 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/03/31 23:38:42
What To Do
#9621 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2010/04/01 03:30:05
I'm sure the answer to what I'm about to ask is very obvious, but I need clarification. Consider the following scenario:
• Player walks into a room with only 1 entrance. There is an object in the room.
• The player can walk anywhere in the room and freely enter and exit the room as many times as they wish, as long as they do not grab the object.
• The player grabs the object in the room. Nothing happens.
• The player proceeds to exit the room after having grabbed the object, but when the player is a few feet away from the exit, a door will slam shut blocking the exit. The door will eventually open again either after a certain amount of time, or after the player completes a specific task.
How can I go about creating something similar to this?
#9622 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/01 04:07:00
i believe you can use the trigger spawning hack (find it in the teaching progs.dat new tricks thread).
essentially, you make a brush entity called info_notnull and give it a use of "trigger_once" or something like that so that when the notnull is triggered it becomes a trigger.
you use that spawned trigger to close the door and start whatever event you want.
#9623 posted by Drew [65.92.161.252] on 2010/04/01 04:11:53
I was gonna say the spike shooter thing, but yeah. that's much simpler.
Metl
#9624 posted by Drew [65.92.161.252] on 2010/04/01 04:13:24
I was just looking at the read me for contract revoked, and Kell thanks you for "drawing [Kell's] attention to the 'powers of 2'"
What are the 'powers of 2'?
Thank You Necros
#9625 posted by Orl [76.98.214.54] on 2010/04/01 04:19:45
Much appreciated :)
Drew:
#9626 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/04/01 08:19:58
I'm not really sure since it's been so long, but maybe I had told him about how non-power-of-two textures get resampled by gl-based engines and how bad it looks compared to power of two textures.
Hmm
#9627 posted by nonentity [94.116.101.138] on 2010/04/01 12:31:17
That or brush sizes relating to compile times
Power Of 2
#9628 posted by ijed [190.20.82.147] on 2010/04/01 12:43:33
As a rule of thumb everything in games should be a power of two, if not a multiple of.
Off-grid is non multiple of. Textures that aren't a power of two get resized at the whim of the graphics card (stretched or squashed up/down left/right) like metl says.
#9629 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.56] on 2010/04/01 13:17:49
Unless the engine prevents that. Good engines (Fitz, DP, jdhack's) do. :-)
I have a half-written post about that.
#9630 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.56] on 2010/04/01 13:41:17
Actually I only had an image but here it is: http://www.quaddicted.com/software...
Huh.
#9631 posted by Drew [132.205.227.138] on 2010/04/01 22:35:51
makes sense!
Non-power-of-two Images
#9632 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/04/01 23:28:35
GLQuake
resamples all of them using a crappy "nearest pixel" filter. The result is that you see specific rows or columns of pixels being repeated. Spirit's screenshot shows this, you can see what looks like columns of double-wide pixels but actually that's just two columns with the same exact pixel colors.
Fitzquake
1. hud/menu graphics, model skins, and sprite frames: images are padded with empty pixels to make them powers of two, and texture coordinates are modified so you only see the actual artwork part of the image. This means they look as good as power-of-two textures, since there is no resampling or distortion.
2. world textures: since they have to be able to tile, these textures can't be padded, so they are resampled using bilinear sampling to be a power-of-two size. This still degrades the image somewhat, but looks better than glquake's resampling.
Aguirre's glquake
Aguirre does bilinear resampling, similar to fitzquake, but for all images. So menu/hud/skins/sprites are also somewhat degraded, but not as bad as glquake.
Other engines
not sure, i haven't researched other engines.
Bug?
#9633 posted by Mathuzzz [95.102.145.231] on 2010/04/02 10:41:05
Hello there, I was making some maps for Quake and Hexen 2, but in one of my maps, in some places when I crouch I fall through the floor and keep falling. I tried everything...Anybody here experienced such thing? I´m using Unofficial Quake engine(UQE).
ATI FINALLY Fixes Their Drivers
#9634 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/04/02 13:43:46
I was fooling around with my new machine trying to get Hammer to work. The same shit was happening again with the selection bug in the 3D view. I couldn't believe it. REALLY?! Still?
But, if you install the latest Catalyst drivers from the ATI site the bug goes away! So if you're an ATI user who has been wanting to use Hammer, you're all clear! It finally works.
#9635 posted by Trinca [89.214.222.198] on 2010/04/02 17:13:36
Mathuzzz some times when we rotate textures and objects some of then give some weardo leaks is that the case?
#9636 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/02 20:14:47
you can't crouch in quake..? are you using a mod? it's possible it's a bug in the mod or something.
#9637 posted by Mathuzzz [95.102.145.231] on 2010/04/02 21:40:08
Actually it happenes in Hexen, where you can crouch.
Trinca, yes I made some texture scaling/manipulating there, but when I deleted all those brushes, the problem remained.
Is The Ground Underneath
#9638 posted by ijed [190.20.101.27] on 2010/04/02 22:09:14
Made of wedges?
It could be an off-grid collision bug.
I Mean
#9639 posted by ijed [190.20.101.27] on 2010/04/02 22:10:16
If there's complicated brushwork for the walls / floor that's not on the grid it can cause hull issues - the player being able to move outside hull0.
#9640 posted by Mathuzzz [95.102.145.231] on 2010/04/03 11:33:08
OK, so I found out that there were some complicated brushes, it took me the whole day to trace them. It is really a pain to make a little realistic and complicated outdoor place there with Quark.
Solutions:
#9641 posted by ijed [190.20.122.155] on 2010/04/03 13:59:26
For complicated stuff you can make it a .mdl - but chances are you don't have the software, knowhow or that Hexen doesn't support placement of .mdls and would have to be coded in (I haven't made anything in it).
If you can place .mdl then you can also place .bsp. This is something I've been experimenting with recently and having good results.
You'll probably need to code it into the game though, or ask someone to do it for you. I do have a piece of code that will do it, but I don't know how compatible it will be with Hexen, and it's not finished yet either - doesn't have collision.
#9642 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/04/03 14:09:12
OK ... so which light compiler is the one to use on Windows these days? I'd like something with sunlight and colored lighting support...
AFAIK
#9643 posted by ijed [190.20.122.155] on 2010/04/03 14:29:33
Tyrann's - sorry no link.
But its very limited compared to AguirRe's (which doesn't have coloured light) in that it only supports so many light entities so big maps aren't feasible.
I think one of Spirit's bounties is to add coloured light support to AguirRe's tools.
#9644 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.98.107] on 2010/04/03 14:39:06
Tyrlite 0.99e
You are allowed 1 sun, unlike AguirRe's tool which lets you have more than one sun.
As for the entity limit, someone posted a link to a hacked version that was made on my request (!) but I havent had a chance to use yet :O
I forget where it was too
#9645 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/04/04 16:10:47
OK ... am I missing this feature? Does Worldcraft/Hammer have a quick way to automatically link up entities via target/targetname? It must, right? I don't have to manually label them all, do I?
Yes
#9646 posted by ijed [190.20.76.173] on 2010/04/04 16:57:54
Though there's copy paste.
#9647 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/04/04 17:03:06
Really? Huh. I thought that was a standard feature in Quake based editors these days.
Hammer
#9648 posted by Zwiffle [70.92.141.255] on 2010/04/04 17:07:56
Is very cumbersome in many ways. In modern hammer (Source hammer) you can auto-complete a lot of the names if you have already named your entities, which is alright, but no shortcuts afaik for targeting those entities. Not sure about HL1 hammer.
It Has The
#9649 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.98.107] on 2010/04/04 18:07:53
ability to have one field open in the enitity window and select point entities in the 2D biew in the background without having to shut the dialogue down.
Dont use it Willem.
I Find Entity Report
#9650 posted by ijed [190.20.76.173] on 2010/04/04 18:32:01
Very useful, though it doesn't provide you any sort of graphical representation, like a trigger tree or anything.
Heh
#9651 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/04 20:53:48
i can't stand the auto targetting stuff. i used it a bit in doom3edit but when i'd go back and try to check entity links, i could never figure out where t73 matched and what the heck does t94 go to?? o.0 :P
but then, when i look at the q1 source maps, i saw (to some dismay) that id used that for all their maps. o.o
i guess it's just one of my weird things that i do, but i prefer to spend an extra second to name my entity 'mainRoom_bigDoor2_left' than 't44'. :P
Auto Targetting
#9652 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/04/04 21:23:31
BspEditor allows you to highlight your trigger and then CTRL/left-click your target to auto complete, but like necros, I prefer to give myself (er, my map elements) meaningful target names.
#9653 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/04 22:23:41
i should mention that doom3edit does the auto targeting right at least. i learnt later than if you name your targeted entity first, then autotarget a trigger at it, it will assign a 'target' key that matches the targetname (instead of rewriting)
Doh...
#9654 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/04/04 22:38:58
So it does in BspEditor. Well, you live and learn.
#9655 posted by gb [89.27.202.209] on 2010/04/05 00:35:54
when i'd go back and try to check entity links, i could never figure out where t73 matched and what the heck does t94 go to?? o.0 :P
but then, when i look at the q1 source maps, i saw (to some dismay) that id used that for all their maps. o.o
Very annoying when you're trying to remake them. Not having to deal with that was a welcome side effect of finally (re)starting from scratch.
#9656 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/04/05 01:31:52
In just grew up used to it I guess since id had it in their editor and then QERadiant continued with the feature. I assumed it was a staple which is why I added it to ToeTag!
The only place it's going to be a hassle is when doing, say, a metal map where you have tons of spotlights to set up. Blah... Although maybe targeting an info_null isn't necessary anymore as I saw something in the light docs about giving a regular light an angle...
Spotlight Angles
#9657 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/04/05 02:03:14
have been pretty standard in most light apps for the past ~10 years or so!
In Quake Anyway
#9658 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/04/05 02:04:27
(not sure on hindsight whether you were actually talking about it)
I Think You Can Give Any Light An Angle...?
#9659 posted by grahf [76.104.21.196] on 2010/04/05 08:56:09
and yeah, the key is 'pitch yaw 0'
(zero is placeholder, because rotating a conical light source doesnt really do anything)
#9660 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/04/05 14:00:34
"have been pretty standard in most light apps for the past ~10 years or so!"
Well, I've been out of the mainstream Quake editing world for over 10 years so ... new to me! :)
#9661 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/04/05 14:08:56
which light app are you using?
i'd recommend the one here if you aren't already using it: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ (bundled with rvis)
#9662 posted by RaVeN [178.95.8.40] on 2010/04/05 17:55:18
Darkplaces uses gl non power of two extension
RaVeN:
#9663 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/04/05 21:59:49
Ah, that figures. Since my card doesn't have it, it doesn't look very good for me :)
Sound
#9664 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/04/07 06:28:49
I have a trigger_once, that triggers four teleporter monsters.
I made all teleporters silent.
I want to use this trigger silent, but the options show
1 secret
2 beepbeep
3 largeswitch
and 4.
I may be a nooblib, but should I fill in silent?
#9665 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/07 06:40:18
just leave 'sounds' set to 0 to be silent. (this is the default behaviour).
Button Textures!
#9666 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/09 03:55:57
anyone know of some good button textures? i'm looking for something that would fit in a quake medieval/metal theme.
tired of the metal Q button, copper pentagram and red dagger on sunburst buttons. :P
Necros
#9667 posted by negke [88.70.51.61] on 2010/04/11 13:31:58
Knave cross button. Daikatana episode 3 buttons/tiles. One of the red rune tiles in metal.wad. Some distinct square metal panel with an interesting brush frame. Existing button texture remixed and rearranged with mirror/rotate.
Okay
#9668 posted by Drew [174.89.238.183] on 2010/04/11 19:21:35
so I disabled UAC in order to allow for texture usage.
Now all of my rmf files are gone. And my Quoth game mode was gone from WC. wtf? I still have some of my .map files, but of course the textures are all fucked.
sucks.
#9669 posted by ijed [190.20.99.173] on 2010/04/12 03:55:19
That sounds funky. Has someone else been using your machine?
It's just a security option, not a 'bin my stuff' option... although it is Windows.
AFAIK the .map format should retain the texture alignment as well since it's a modified form with a load of extra detail written in.
Yeah
#9670 posted by Drew [174.89.238.183] on 2010/04/12 04:09:44
I'm pretty confused regarding that situation - I rebooted, and then my files were gone. Maybe I'm being a retard - I'm NOT much of a computer dude, like most people on func.
I'll keep poking around, but it was mostly crap scraps anyway, not too much of worth - just one or two files which were at all important to me.
I never had issues with alignment in .map files until when I was making sm 160 - RT23 gave me some tips on it earlier in the thread.
Is it a WC 3.3 issue only?
Its An "improvement"
#9671 posted by RickyT23 [86.29.122.18] on 2010/04/12 14:30:09
Just remember to save to .rmf format and you cant go wrong :)
Vorelings
#9672 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2010/04/12 15:15:19
I am not sure where the code comes (it was released some time ago) from but in the verion I have, they don't cling to the ceiling. Is there a flag to set in the editor?
Anyone know?
Mike
#9673 posted by spy [95.56.85.175] on 2010/04/12 15:24:27
from the quoth mapping tutorial
Vorelings can be made to begin in a map hanging from a ceiling so that they can drop down on unsuspecting players. To do this, place the monster below a ceiling and set the key/value "dangle" "1"
http://kell.quaddicted.com/quoth/q...
Spy
#9674 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/04/12 20:13:44
Thanks
#9675 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/14 03:55:46
does zipping a map file create micro leaks/brush misalignments?
dug a map out of a backup archive and there seem to be way more 1 unit misalignments than i remember.
I Hope You Are Joking
#9676 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.189] on 2010/04/14 06:48:00
zip is lossless
#9677 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/14 07:48:41
heh, i dunno. it was the only thing i could think of. i could have swore i repaired the errors after making the backup, and it seemed like there were about 10x as many this time around. :P
#9678 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/04/14 15:15:58
Which editor? If it stores the planes in the MAP file as floats, it might be floating point creep.
#9679 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/14 20:13:24
it is floating point creep.
i was trying to figure out how to get aguirre's convmap to correct the inaccuracies (that's what it was originally coded for), but i couldn't. :S
#9680 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/14 20:14:54
that's what it was originally coded for
that's what it was originally used for (by me).
i used it to correct floating point inaccuracy when i was mapping with quark407 way back.
Marksurfaces...
#9681 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/04/15 11:28:56
This is my first time working on a map that pushes the marksurfaces limit, so i'm learning what exactly that limit means.
1. Other people have said "sometimes you can exceed it a little bit and it's okay". I just now confirmed that this is true, i have a map that doesn't crash win/glquake with 32806 marksurfaces.
2. I used to think that brush entities didn't add marksurfaces, but i just found that adding a func_wall increased my count. So they do.
3. GLQuake doesn't use marksurfaces at all when rendering brush entities, only uses them on world rendering. I wonder about winquake....
THEORY: you will crash only if the world itself has more than 32767 marksurfaces. If it has less, and only adding the brush entity marksurfaces pushes you over the limit, then you're okay.
Metl
#9682 posted by RickyT23 [81.131.104.130] on 2010/04/15 11:51:04
I was thinking, does a func_illusionary add marksurfaces? I know a func_wall does, and it adds clipnodes aswell, but I'm not sure about func_illusionaries.
Ricky:
#9683 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/04/15 11:54:18
all brush entities should work the same way... the only difference is quakec (which the compiler doesn't know anything about)
#9684 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/04/15 13:03:45
had that problem in tchak... marksurfaces made me cut on some details i wanted to add :|
I've
#9685 posted by ijed [190.20.71.113] on 2010/04/15 13:10:00
Started to implement point versions of all brush entities, which should be able to lower such limits significantly, and make build time quicker as well, since the mapper only needs to make their map's atypical door / crate / cog once.
Metlslime
#9686 posted by JPL [213.30.158.194] on 2010/04/15 15:06:34
Actually it depends of what the engine has to render in real time. If you have a very good occlusion mapping style, then it is not a problem, else you have troubles...
Or you can use an enhanced engine with over-standard limit support.
As example in CDA the max marksurfaces was exceeding 32786 (i.e ~35000 if I remember well), and it requires a decent engine to play the map: i.e WinQuake is definitely not suporting it ;)
So
#9687 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/15 15:43:23
Spawned .bsp's will still add to the total?
#9688 posted by metlslime [173.11.92.50] on 2010/04/16 00:44:01
JPL: Well, i should mention that i want this map to play in all engines. So i am actually trying to understand the marksurfaces limit as well as possible. (also to help other people understand it too, of course.) As it turns out i am under the limit again (deleted a couple of less-important details.)
ijed: external bsp models (like ammo and health) should not affect marksurfaces because the problem is the index overflowing (stock engines treat the indexes as signed shorts, meaning 32768 will be loaded as -32767 and when you try to use that negative index on your marksurfaces array it will go outside the array.) External bsp models have their own arrays, so it should work. (to the best of my knowledge.)
#9689 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/16 04:06:02
i believe that trick where you reuse bsp models inside the map doesn't increase marksurfaces either, just the original.
So It's Releasable?
#9690 posted by Drew [70.49.68.229] on 2010/04/16 04:07:42
#9691 posted by Trinca [85.138.43.32] on 2010/04/16 08:31:44
metlslime
"i should mention that i want this map to play in all engines"
This one of my goals in all my maps!!!
hope you can kill the bug ;)
The Engine Question
#9692 posted by gb [89.27.200.151] on 2010/04/16 14:35:50
I feel myself going in the direction of simply requiring Darkplaces. What's the problem? It's cross platform and open source, free as in beer... looks better than other engines, supports a crackload of extensions, custom assets in various formats, and gigantic maps, and it's stable enough. SDL and GL versions, too. Can't ask for much more.
I also like how video capture is piss easy in Darkplaces. You can even plug those *.ogvs directly into youtube.
rockin' engine. Sure, quakespasm is nice, too. Just not enough support for things like csqc, and slightly old school graphics...
a problem with many quake engines is the fact that they are just missing features that DP or FTE have had for years. Old school is well and good, but it's 2010. Custom HUD elements via CSQC would be nice. So would squad AI and stick physics or ODE. These things exist, but aren't supported by enough engines. :-/
Wouldn't want to live without .ogg support for the soundtrack either. No idea why other engines don't have that.
Well
#9693 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/16 15:05:51
It's a case of multiple support - DP only makes you even more niche if you're on the dev side.
Quakespasm / fitz is a decent standard now with the raised limits. It's not flash looking but not everyone likes Quake to be and any made specifically for it can still be played in DP for those who do.
#9694 posted by gb [89.27.200.151] on 2010/04/16 15:26:26
> DP only makes you even more niche if you're on the dev side.
How so? Don't most modders, quite some mappers and a lot of players use Darkplaces?
Also
#9695 posted by gb [89.27.200.151] on 2010/04/16 15:28:18
engines get used when they're required. Just like Windows.
I Mean
#9696 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/16 18:28:15
There's quirks / fixes / features in DP that aren't in other engines, so bugs can slip through the net if you only test in DP.
We've had a few, remember :)
True
#9697 posted by gb [89.27.200.151] on 2010/04/16 19:40:01
but if you *require* DP, isn't it enough if it runs in DP?
(getting hypothetical I guess)
...this Sounds Like An Internal Discussion, But...
#9698 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/16 19:52:01
i've skipped all releases that didn't play in fitzquake 080. when 085 was released with increased limits, i went back and played them.
otoh, i was fully ready to require fitzquake for ne_cath if it had been released because the maps didn't load in any other custom engine (it seems not many people bump up max static entities).
Sure DP
#9699 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/16 20:27:01
Only is a reasonable requirement, but I prefer to play it safe and support 'lesser' engines as well to hurt the 'customer base'.
I Can Barely Run DP
#9700 posted by meTch [69.183.34.73] on 2010/04/17 02:24:10
unless i go back to like one of the first releases
then i might as well use rocks instead of hammers, and stone wheels instead of pneumatic tires :/
#9701 posted by gb [89.27.200.151] on 2010/04/17 02:51:15
I have a Geforce FX5500, which was like 30 euros. I'm sure they're cheaper on ebay. My machine is a P4 from 2004... the recent DP allows me to put effects and lighting to "Quake" levels very quickly, putting me near 100 FPS most of the time.
> skipped all releases that didn't play in fitzquake 080
Er, why?
> to hurt the 'customer base'.
I see what you mean, but you can't get much friendlier than win/lin/mac and free as in beer. Depending on Fitzquake, or one of its offspring, to implement support for the most basic new features anytime soon is kind of a gamble, seeing where Fitzquake comes from. I had hopes for QSB, but not much is happening there lately.
A general discussion btw, not strictly RMQ related. I just want to use csqc and a couple other things for my projects. I see that my options are limited.
#9702 posted by ijed [190.20.69.137] on 2010/04/17 06:10:35
Not a RMQ discussion. Didn't want to go down the singular engine route, otherwise would have gone for some genuinely more advanced engine. Would have been much more work but visually far beyond even DP's capabilities.
Talking about something like Doom3 or Crysis.
Something would have been lost though. It's one reason why no hirez. At least yet.
#9703 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/17 06:20:52
Er, why?
because they didn't play in fq080.
i think i weathered through tronyn's masque in dp (both when testing and then to play properly), because the map was ridiculously cool, but i enjoyed it a lot more when i was able to replay it in fq085. mind you, dp wasn't as good in 07 as it is now. it was generally slower and the version i used back then had some weird bugs which are all fixed now.
i shall address your initial points:
It's cross platform and open source
i'm on windows and i can only compile source files on my work machine with microsoft visual studio. completely indifferent.
free as in beer
all engines are, and if they aren't i wouldn't even look twice at it. this isn't really a plus or minus.
looks better than other engines
subjective and debatable. it's not ugly though, and the presets in the menu do a good job of setting things up.
still, i prefer FQ because it has cleaner, solid particles. DP at 'quake settings' has fuzzy particles like they are covered in fur.
supports a crackload of extensions
i haven't really wanted to mod anything that can't be done in normal qc. indifferent.
custom assets in various formats
all i really need is external tga textures to circumvent the quake palette and skyboxes, which FQ already does. indifferent.
gigantic maps
not sure if it's changed recently, but FQ has higher limits for static entities which prevented a map i was making from loading in DP.
it's stable enough.
no arguments there, i've never had the engine crash during gameplay. but neither does FQ. indifferent.
SDL and GL versions
i suspect this is more to do with portability? i am using quakespasm atm because it fixes the 64 bit + dual core + w7 problem in fitzquake. not because it's sdl.
whether it's sdl or not, opengl or directx, really doesn't affect me in any way since it either works or it doesn't. indifferent.
there is one thing that i care about that DP has over FQ though, and that is the increased accuracy on angles. or maybe the engine interpolates angle changes. the point is my cogs and gears accelerate to full rotation speed very very smoothly and slowly rotating brushes don't have to deal with low precision angles. :)
oh, and snd_spatialization is pretty sweet and easy on the ears.
finally, and i hesitate to bring it up because it's not very quantifiable, but even at 'quake settings', DP runs slower than FQ. when developing maps, i'm routinely running around with 20k wpoly and maybe 50-90k epoly. DP slows down to a crawl, and no way would i use one engine to develop on and another to play.
your later post:
Custom HUD elements via CSQC would be nice. So would squad AI and stick physics or ODE.
for this stuff, wouldn't you be better off in idtech4? it's 2010 after all. ;)
the AAS system makes ai and pathfinding very simple and the gui stuff is one of the 'big' things about idtech4. the physics engine leaves something to be desired though, it's pretty shit. :\ (what's ODE physics?)
anyway, you shouldn't be so worried about if 100% of the community will play your mod or not. i'm sure there are people who hate quoth with a passion and curse every map that comes out that requires it.
just do your idea for DP and if it's awesome enough, it might even entice other engine coders to update their stuff to be compatible with it. or it might not. but at least you made something bad ass, that's really what's important, no?
Lighting Entities
#9704 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/04/17 18:25:36
I have three entities that will move during in the game. They are equally spaced and between and around them I have lights. The two outer entites are lit correctly but the middle one is not lit.
Are there special considerations when lighting certain types of entity? I though that they picked up their lighting characteristics from the surface below them so was expecting all three to be lit the same.
#9705 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/17 19:05:31
you're talking about point entities?
it also depends if you have sky brushes below. you have to bury a normal brush inside the sky brush.
also, the original quake engine only checked a certain amount below them, if the floor was further than that amount, they would just be full dark.
that's all i can think of.
'kin' Plonker I Am
#9706 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/04/17 19:27:20
So I know that the 'kin' entity takes its 'kin' light from the 'kin' surface below, so why the 'kin' hell did I 'kin' delete the 'kin' brush before I compiled the 'kin' test map!
I need to stop drinking... no, I need another drink...
(thanks anyway necros)
Haha
#9707 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/17 20:29:52
awesome! ^_^
Gtk/netradian And Darkplaces
#9708 posted by Ichiman [81.0.127.57] on 2010/04/18 12:21:04
Hello, i have the ID.wad file in the /quake/id1 folder, but the radiant cant load the textures... I selected the darkplaces game and setupped properly, but i dont have any texture in the editor... pls help
#9709 posted by Trippa [188.221.82.86] on 2010/04/18 18:50:33
ID.wad in id1/gfx/ perhaps?
#9710 posted by Ichiman [193.226.248.47] on 2010/04/18 19:48:38
no
#9711 posted by Ichiman [193.226.248.47] on 2010/04/18 19:54:56
Some error logs from GTK/Net radiant...
Unable to find default tag file C:/Program Files/GtkRadiant 1.5.0/darkplaces.game/shadertags.x... No tag support.
Unable to find default tag file D:/NetRadiant/darkplaces.game/shad... No tag support.
When i try to FlushReloadShaders in Netradiant:
Parsing shader files from D:/Games/DPquake/id1/scripts/shade...
Unable to read shaderfile scripts/common.shader
Unable to read shaderfile scripts/quake.shader
Question
#9712 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/21 10:17:38
I'm getting an error from TXQBSP, "Invalid brush plane format on line (x)." I think the map file might be corrupt but I'm hoping there's something I can do about it, but I don't understand the format well enough to figure out what's wrong. Anyone have any ideas?
Have You Tried..
#9713 posted by rj [128.243.253.108] on 2010/04/21 10:34:27
importing the .map file back into your editor? that normally weeds out any broken brushes. if not then load it in notepad, go to that line and delete the brush manually (each brush starts with a { and ends with a })
it might be a crucial brush.. but then i guess you'll notice its absence if it is :)
Heh
#9714 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/21 10:44:22
yeah I tried deleting the brush in question but then there was another one, and another, heh, so yeah I'll try re-importing. Thanks for the response.
Now I have another question, which is how do you generate an .ent file (to edit map entities) using just qbsp anda bsp file.
Hmm
#9715 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/21 10:51:32
wow, k I just tried importing from the .map, and the .map appears empty in hammer. now this is messed up.
Ouch
#9716 posted by rj [128.243.253.108] on 2010/04/21 11:01:19
hrm. hammer uses a different kind of map format doesn't it?
as to the other question, i know adquedit is a dead useful little app that can do it with little hassle...
Anyway.. Vertexing Question
#9717 posted by rj [128.243.253.108] on 2010/04/21 11:03:21
i actually came in here to ask a question of my own :)
(this for anyone who uses an editor that *isn't* WC 1.6)
say you have a cube, in your top down view, and clip it half vertically then horizontally so you have 4 brushes joined together. then you select all and go into your editor's vertex editing mode
in your top down view, you should now see 9 vertex points. when you click on the middle 'one' (there are actually 8 on that z-line but to the human eye in that view, it's one), how many actual vertices does your editor select? is it all 8, the top 4, one of the top 4 or one of the top 4 and the corresponding vertex below it on the same brush?
and what about selecting the top 'point' in 3D mode? all 4 or just the one?
WC1.6 will select 2 aligned vertices but only one brush at a time, and only ever the one in 3D view. just wondering if any others did it differently. at the moment i have to draw a selection box around the point and hit enter to move all of them at once, ultimately i'd like to just be able to click and drag (or hit an arrow key) to move all the vertices at that point
#9718 posted by RickyT23 [81.131.104.130] on 2010/04/21 12:46:30
have you tried drag-selecting all eight points or four points or whatever in 2d mode (while in vertex editing mode) and pressing entar?
Yes
#9719 posted by rj [128.243.253.117] on 2010/04/21 13:25:50
at the moment i have to draw a selection box around the point and hit enter to move all of them at once, ultimately i'd like to just be able to click and drag (or hit an arrow key) to move all the vertices at that point
just wanting to save time/effort when doing lots of it
I Think
#9720 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/21 15:37:46
3.3 Selects the singular vertex closest to the view.
Seems like there should be an option for this, aside from the middle points on/off thing.
Tronyn
#9721 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/21 15:44:29
I had the same problem when you sent me your RWOP files ages ago - nothing in the active windows.
Probably the only workable option is to use the fix options inside of Worldcraft, but also figuring out a way for the map to stop eating itself with errors.
I've heard of this before but never of a solution.
Tronyn
#9722 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/21 21:31:30
could you copy and paste the line (and the whole brush) in question? maybe someone will notice what's wrong with the syntax.
( -1952 -1088 2368 ) ( -1920 -1056 2368 ) ( -1920 -1056 2336 ) metal5_60 31 63 90 1 1
here's a standard q1 format line in a brush definition.
3 xyz coordinates, followed by the name of the texture, then x offset for texture, y offset for texture, angle to be rotated, x scale, y scale.
Have To Say
#9723 posted by Drew [65.92.162.65] on 2010/04/22 01:38:03
I pretty much hate 3.3 now.
I think I might go back to 1.6...
Well
#9724 posted by ijed [190.20.113.243] on 2010/04/22 02:34:47
After starting with 3.3 I hated it. I thought about going back to 1.6a but then remembered all the little issues that version had as well.
They're both temperamental, at least with 3.3 there's proper texture lock.
Q: So Why Don't You Use An Alternate Editor?
#9725 posted by ijed [190.20.113.243] on 2010/04/22 02:38:20
A: Because now all my maps are in 3.3 texture format...
And I like the interface still.
#9726 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/04/22 02:51:16
3.3 is better than 1.6 by a lot, but it's just so damn cumbersome compared to radiant.
I wish I had the balls to go make my own god damn editor with exactly what I wanted to work how I wanted it to work :(
If There's Hope For Him
#9727 posted by ijed [190.20.113.243] on 2010/04/22 03:32:32
http://www.herewith-yanni.com/wp-c...
I've Found
#9728 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/22 13:26:10
that one of the actual reasons why a lot of my new stuff is on a larger scale than my old stuff, is the ability to move the camera a lot more smoothly and quickly in 3.3.
Heres the data for the first offending brush in the map:
{
( 144 -144 -256 ) ( 272 -144 -256 ) ( 272 -160 -256 ) METALL BARS [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 0 ] 0 1 1
( 272 -144 -384 ) ( 144 -144 -384 ) ( 160 -160 -384 ) METALL BARS [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 0 ] 0 1 1
( 272 -160 -256 ) ( 272 -160 -384 ) ( 160 -160 -384 ) METALL BARS [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 272 -144 -384 ) ( 272 -144 -256 ) ( 144 -144 -256 ) METALL BARS [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 160 -160 -256 ) ( 160 -160 -384 ) ( 144 -144 -384 ) METALL BARS [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 272 -160 -384 ) ( 272 -160 -256 ) ( 272 -144 -256 ) METALL BARS [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
}
Could It Be...
#9729 posted by generic [67.233.133.153] on 2010/04/22 13:58:17
Something as simple as the space in the texture name?
Just guessing.
Is That A Quake Map File?
#9730 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.12.6] on 2010/04/22 18:20:08
Cause it doesn't look like one.
#9731 posted by spy [92.46.12.80] on 2010/04/22 19:19:40
Cause it doesn't look like one.
yes, it's valve 'mapversion 220' format file
#9732 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/22 20:32:52
well, whatever it is, it needs to be converted into quake format.
you've got some strange syntax after the texture name (and i'm not sure you are allowed to have spaces either).
is that the enhanced texture positioning maybe?
Texture Names With Spaces
#9733 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.12.6] on 2010/04/22 20:39:23
are a likely suspect. You should find & replace them with something else in a text editor and see if it works then.
Connecting Levels?
#9734 posted by sumguy [216.61.228.2] on 2010/04/22 20:49:33
I'm certain this is a stupid question, but how do you link maps together so that the player can teleport to the next level(such as how it's done in the original Quake single player).
I know Half-Life used a "changelevel" entity, but I don't see that option available for Quake. Am I missing something?
Sorry if this is an obvious thing, but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere. I am using Worldcraft 3.3 with the Quake adapter if that helps.
Thanks in advance...
Trigger_changelevel
#9735 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/04/22 20:50:34
:-)
Durr...
#9736 posted by sumguy [216.61.228.2] on 2010/04/22 21:03:56
That makes too much sense.
thanks rj...
Weird Format
#9737 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/04/22 21:13:58
Some tools do accept hammer map format and produce a quake 1 map, but I'd agree with everyone about the space in the texture name.
Yes
#9738 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/22 23:37:49
Those numbers are the extended texture format, and the compiler has no problem with them. Most quake map editors can't open maps with this extension, but if you're using the editor it was created by (WC3.3) then you'll have no problem.
Space in texture name sounds like the culprit...
Iris Doors
#9739 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/23 00:23:03
How do they work?
Rotating? If so, screw it :)
I've seen them in Quake but can't remember where...
Bah
#9740 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/23 00:25:31
Looks like it does work by rotating objects. Has anyone seen a non-rotating version?
Iris
#9741 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/04/23 00:49:24
I wonder if you can cheat. If you had two pairs of doors, one opening vertically and the other opening horizontally directly behind them, you'd end up with a square hole as you opened them. If you extended this idea to four pairs (and presumably made the doors fairly thin) you could make an octagon which might look quite iris like.
Yeah
#9742 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/23 01:01:46
that's kind of what I was thinking...
Will post any experiments that work.
Iris Doors...
#9743 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/04/23 02:33:00
don't need rotating, each slice just moves in a straight line. I think one of the IKBlue levels has this.
That Sound About Right
#9744 posted by ijed [190.20.89.146] on 2010/04/23 02:59:53
With pie slice floor texture.
I think it can't work vertically though, only horizontally.
Iris Example
#9745 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/04/23 05:52:44
http://members.home.nl/gimli/IRISD...
And For Not QOOLE Users
#9746 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/04/23 07:31:14
http://members.home.nl/gimli/IRIS0...
Re 9743
#9747 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/23 07:32:36
that's not a real iris though. a true iris has pie shapes that rotate outwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsk...
but yeah, what preach said works pretty good and looks really cool when opening and has the benefit of working as a vertical door. a lot of sci fi use doors like that.
Sweet
#9748 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/23 09:21:39
yeah you guys were right, it was just the spaces in the texture names. Awesome now I can finish these maps. Yay! Now here's the situation I'm in. I'm using the Nexiuz textures, the originals are 2x the size of the recent Q1 conversion ones, so I want to keep with the originals since otherwise my texturing will be messed up everywhere. I guess my question is, what would be the best way to replace the spaces in the names of the textures in the original wads with _'s, or, is there a Nexiuz texture wad available for Quake with all the textures in the original sizes?
#9749 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/23 10:03:00
just run them through irfanview to shrink them, it's free :)
Search/replace
#9750 posted by negke [88.70.66.238] on 2010/04/23 21:40:11
Wordpad. Or, if the map file is too large for it, a text editor like Notepad++ for example.
All Your Bases Are Belong To Notepad++
#9751 posted by ijed [190.20.108.53] on 2010/04/24 14:02:08
Alright
#9752 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/25 05:26:48
fixed the texture names, now I just need to convert (some of) the original nexiuz textures to the Q1 palette in their original sizes. What's the best program to do this?
Or
#9753 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/25 08:55:58
if anyone wants to do me the favour of converting these textures you'll be rewarded with a couple new Q1SPs, heh.
Texture Conversion Tool
#9754 posted by negke [88.70.250.13] on 2010/04/25 09:37:00
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtop...
TY
#9755 posted by Tronyn [24.78.143.88] on 2010/04/25 16:08:38
now go invent some other weird creepy sneaky Q1SP stuff :)
Weird Question
#9756 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/25 20:13:27
what is the formula to calculate the maximum distance a sound can be heard?
i don't think volume plays any part in it, just attenuation.
i have some looping sounds that may start when the player is beyond hearing range. if this happens, the engine doesn't register the sound as playing so i need to continuously check if the player is entering hearing range, but the check is done on multiple types of entities with different attenuation values, so i can't just use a flat range.
You're
#9757 posted by ijed [190.20.119.219] on 2010/04/26 00:52:11
On a higher level than me. But from that question my advice would be change engine.
#9758 posted by gb [89.27.246.236] on 2010/04/27 14:41:07
ask LordHavoc, Spike, mh or metlslime?
The problem where Quake stops playing sounds when the player is out of range (and continues them weirdly when he returns), is, er, a problem.
#9759 posted by gb [89.27.246.236] on 2010/04/27 14:41:55
whoah, we made a good show here.
#9760 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/04/27 19:40:32
what is the formula to calculate the maximum distance a sound can be heard?
I never figured this out, in the end i just experimented with different distances until i found one that seemed right.
#9761 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/27 19:51:30
i asked on inside3d, so we'll see. :)
i just experimented with different distances
i would do that if it was only one sound, but i will have multiple sounds at multiple attenuations, and it would be unlikely that i could guesstimate all differences accurately.
Sound Thinking
#9762 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/04/27 22:01:53
We can pick atten to lie between 0 and 4. The engine now defines:
nom_atten = atten / 1000
dist = nom_atten * length(sound.origin - player.origin);
So the crucial thing here is to notice how the attenuation affects the distance.
Attenuation 2 samples are effectively twice as far away as attenuation 1 sounds.
Attenuation 0 sounds are always treated as distance 0 away.
The next thing you need to know is that the volume is multiplied by
( 1 - dist) * rscale in the right ear and (1 - dist) * lscale in the left ear.
rscale is equal to 1 + v_right*normalise(sound.origin - player.origin)
lscale is equal to 1 - v_right*normalise(sound.origin - player.origin)
Don't worry too much about what rscale and lscale mean, just be aware that they are never negative and sum to 2.
We need to compute when both the left and right ear go to zero volume, as in that case the sound is not played.
We know that lscale and rscale are never both equal to 0. So the only case we need to think about is
1 - dist <= 0
this implies that
dist >= 1
so
nom_atten * length(sound.origin - player.origin) >= 1
atten * length(sound.origin - player.origin) >= 1000
It is best to keep the inequality in this form, so that you don't have to worry about dividing by 0 if either the attenuation or the length go to zero.
In real terms, this means a sound with attenuation 1 is audible 1000 units away, attenuation 2 is 500 units away, etc.
You Are A Quake Hero
#9763 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/27 22:09:55
#9764 posted by Trinca [85.138.43.32] on 2010/04/27 22:38:52
Quake God as Sub-Nigurath
Sounds Like
#9765 posted by Preach [94.171.242.186] on 2010/04/27 23:27:22
If you are going to run this function very frequently, then you might consider it a candidate for optimisation. As it happens, this inequality is ripe for one of my favourite optimisation tricks. It hinges on the idea that calculating the square root of a number is expensive compared to regular operations such as addition and multiplication.
The length of a 3d vector is calculated as
sqrt(x*x + y*y + z*z)
What we notice is that if a and b are > 0 then
a*a >= b*b is equivalent to a >= b
so we can rewrite our inequality from earlier as:
atten * atten * length * length >= 1000*1000
But we have multiplied length by itself, which reverses the sqrt involved in the calculation of length, and takes us back to the value before that step.
So we can replace that with
atten * atten * (x*x + y*y + z*z) >= 1000000
If we were writing this straight in C, there would be no doubt that this method is faster, it replaces one call to sqrt with a single multiplication. In QC, it's a bit harder to decide if it's beneficial, because vlen would have done the multiplication in the brackets for us, which is a little cheaper than doing it ourselves in QC.
In effect, we have replaced the function call to the builtin vlen with four multiplcations and two additions. It's worth noting that a function call has quite a bit of overhead too, so it's likely that we're a way ahead in doing this. If I'm really honest, this is more of an "inner loop in critical c++ rendering code" optimisation, but it's cute to look at.
Thanks Again
#9766 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/27 23:48:24
very simple when it's all laid out like that, and a nice trick for optimizing vlen calculations. ^_^
(as it turns out, i have other parts in my mod that require frequent vlen calls as well)
Just Replied On I3D But Hey! Here Too...
#9767 posted by mh [78.152.237.236] on 2010/04/28 01:19:28
That value of 1000 *may* have been 1500 in an earlier version of Quake. This is based on a comment I saw in somebody's source maybe 6 years ago; can't remember where or who now.
I've no reason to either doubt or believe it, but I've switched to 1500 myself (in fact I've turned it into a cvar) as I like the extra ambience that it generates in a map.
#9768 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/04/28 04:16:00
now that i know a little more about it, i found this line in snd_dma.c for fq085:
vec_t sound_nominal_clip_dist=1000.0;
so it looks like id brought it back down to 1000 unless metl did that, but there's no comment there about it. :)
So
#9769 posted by ijed [190.20.97.48] on 2010/04/28 04:36:57
Iris doors involve maths. Hypotenuese etc.
I got lazy and used a prefab - the lip is difficult to work out.
Your Prefab Madfox, Thanks.
#9770 posted by ijed [190.20.97.48] on 2010/04/28 05:07:49
Ijed:
#9771 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/04/28 08:45:16
that's the problem, yes.
the alternative is to set the movedir directly in the map file, but that requires a quakec change (since as written, a func_door always calls SetMovedir() which clobbers any movedir you set in the map file.)
They
#9772 posted by ijed [190.20.97.48] on 2010/04/28 13:24:42
Can't be vertical either. I did consider adding a flag to doors, but it seems a bit overkill.
I already have a func_door_model, so maybe that's the cleaner solution.
Iikka's Ikspq3 Iris Doors
#9773 posted by roblot [216.106.106.226] on 2010/04/28 14:27:12
He uses a lip of 49 and -49 equally on the
8 doors. Maybe the bounding box of each of
his doors are the same size to get that lip.
Otherwise its movement seems perfect, without
gaps.
Madfox'
#9774 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/28 15:07:39
Example has a total of four different lip values with the opposite pieces moving on the same axis being the same.
None of the values are negative either.
A .mdl solution is a maybe, but not ideal since I'll have to fake the collision. An external bsp could either prove impossible or the solution to everything...
#9775 posted by roblot [216.106.106.52] on 2010/04/28 17:21:20
Yea, it's just those 4 doors that move at 45 degree angles that have a lip thats hard to get right. Maybe Iikka's brush model at the corners (45 degree) have multiple brushes to change its bounding box, thus making it easier to figuring out the lip.
Ijed:
#9776 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/04/28 21:02:40
if you modify the qc to set the movedir yourself, you can make vertical iris doors too.
Good Point
#9777 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/04/28 22:42:15
And I do have a place for a vertical one that would be very cool since the player is thrown through it as it opens by a trigger_push into a large section of pipe beyond.
Will have to think about this.
Like A Diafragma...
#9778 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/04/29 01:07:04
The prefab of the irisdoor was a rather strange collector item as I couldn't find it in the Qoole prefab directory.
I saw it once in 2004, when the Qoole side still excisted. I couldn't find it as it was in qml format. When I finally found it I realized all the lip sizes were in it, and I even understood less from what I saw.
Glad I could find it in my dusty archive.
I tried a vertical irisdoor with func_trains,
but it really gave me the creep.
Hm
#9779 posted by ijed [190.20.93.225] on 2010/04/29 02:41:58
func_train works in theory. Would be a lot of pissing about on a very small grid though.
Path_Corners
#9780 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/05/03 18:33:28
I am having trouble with my Ogres.
Going upstairs he is OK but when he returns, he seems to get stuck and twizzles around on one or two of the steps. He looks like he is searching for the way down but never finds it. Other monsters, such as knights and hell knights, are fine and follow the same path_corners without any trouble.
Is this a bounding box issue and do I need to allow more room on one side going in one direction?
For instance, I seem to remember that in the xy view, the lower left hand corner of the path_corner is significant. But could there be relevance to the direction of travel so that I should allow more room on one side in one direction but more room on the other side in the opposite direction?
There is only one monster on this path and no other monsters can cross the path, or otherwise get in the way of the ogre.
#9781 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/05/03 18:42:40
Well, Hell Knights have the same bounding box as the Ogre so I'm not sure what could be going on...
Well
#9782 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/05/03 18:43:19
id1 Ogres as the same size as a Shambler, so if there's a bottleneck smaller than 64 units they can get stuck.
#9783 posted by gb [89.27.245.80] on 2010/05/03 21:29:19
If you use your own progs, you can simply give ogres the smaller bounding box.
Willem
#9784 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/05/03 22:45:09
No they don't. Hell knights use the smaller box, ogres use the larger box.
If the ogre is going up fine, but not down, then you need to raise the ceiling by the height of the step. If it still doesn't work, then keep increasing the ceiling height. But 1 or 1.5 x height of step should be enough.
For gb's suggestion to work, you would need to make them use the smaller box. And yes, they do completely fit inside it.
#9785 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/03 23:29:21
in order for a monster to take a step, it has to have it's 4 corners of it's bbox 'on ground'. the monster is allowed some leeway, but if the steps are too short, it would have to 'skip a step' which makes the vertical distance too far down.
essentially, the big monsters need bigger steps. :P
Lardarse
#9786 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/03 23:31:03
obviously, without seeing the map, i can't be sure, but i don't think it's a ceiling issue.
the check when walking up a step is different from when walking down.
it is allowed to step up more than it is allowed to step down.
#9787 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/05/04 05:25:41
Aaah yes, I think you might be onto something.
When stepping up, the front corner(s) need to be moving into something, and have a place to stand that is less than maxstepheight (there is a cvar for this, default is 18).
When stepping down, however, it's something like the middle of the box needs to be above a point that is no more than maxstepheight away, while the back corners are still on the top step.
This suggests that the only thing that will work, is either a smaller bounding box, or wider/shallower stairs.
#9788 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/05/04 14:49:59
"in order for a monster to take a step, it has to have it's 4 corners of it's bbox 'on ground'. the monster is allowed some leeway, but if the steps are too short, it would have to 'skip a step' which makes the vertical distance too far down.
essentially, the big monsters need bigger steps. :P"
Are you sure? Ogres can navigate standard sized stairs in most maps that I've made. I've never had a situation where I needed to make stairs deeper to accommodate the bigger bounding box ... or maybe I've been doing it just automatically and not running into this. I dunno!
Upstairs, Downstairs And In My Lady's Chamber
#9789 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2010/05/04 14:53:14
So I guess that I'll stop trying to get the ogre to walk down the spiral(!) staircase then.
Mind you, he looks quite funny when he is twizzling on a couple of stairs (he sort of dances between them) and I may leave him there just to give the player a laugh before he blasts the ogre's head of with both barrels.
Thanks for your help everyone.
Spiral Stairs?
#9790 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/05/04 15:00:44
That clears it up :)
#9791 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/04 19:57:53
spiral, yeah. monsters have even more trouble navigating down stairs that are at an angle. even if all the steps are 45 degrees.
remember that bboxes don't rotate, so when the square bbox hits, say, a 45 degree angle, his leading corner will be even further out than usual (owing that it's a diagonal relative to the 45 degree step). you need to make your steps even bigger in that case.
note that if your steps are in an L shape, they can have trouble on the corners of the steps as well.
willem: now that we know that the map has spiral stairs, it's probably more owing to the non-right angled stairs, but you can see this for yourself by building a stair that is 16 units high and 16 units long. small bbox monsters should still be able to use it, but large bbox monsters will treat it like a ledge.
Closing The Loop...
#9792 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/05/04 22:24:37
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202...
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3...
"He was twizzlin' away, 'till the closing of day, and singing a smoke-twizzlin' song. There was an aeroplane circlin' but he didn't notice at first, 'cause it was so cunningly disguised as a dragon."
#9793 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/05/04 22:41:36
trigger_monsterjump (or whatever it's called)
SOLVED!
Alternative
#9794 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/05/04 23:01:24
Make a pillar so the steps closest to the internal bit of the U aren't so short - the outer width of the steps looks fine for even fatboy to walk down them.
Alternative2:
http://www.mobility-superstore.com...
Might be tricky setting up the func_trains though.
Ijed
#9795 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/05/04 23:20:01
That's just what I need, never mind the Ogres!
You Have
#9796 posted by ijed [190.20.69.128] on 2010/05/05 00:57:52
A large bounding box?
Large Bounding Box?
#9797 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.108.58] on 2010/05/05 07:29:25
...oh yes, my box bounds large.
I got round the 'problem' with my ogre by setting the path_corners right next to the right hand side of the stairs where the tread is widest. He goes up and down with a slight twizzle on one step. The downside is that he does not appear to walk on the stairs, he looks as though he is floating above them.
But at least in gives that degree of randomness associated with wandering monsters.
Onwards and upwards, as they say...
Hahah
#9798 posted by ijed [190.20.99.213] on 2010/05/05 13:38:25
Anyway - I didn't think of the path_corners - you can already tell him where he supposed to be.
Looking forward to it, always liked shallots.
Some Simillar Path Corner & Ogres.
#9799 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/06 03:56:10
How come the Ogre stops, when there's a 16 or 32 gap on its pathway?
I tried the OldOgre , but he always stops as soon here's a 16 unit gap.
I even tried a clipbrush of 8 units.
To make the screenshot I had to force the Ogre on the midle of the path.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/OldOg...
Madfox:
#9800 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/06 04:10:50
monsters use the visible geometry (hull 0) to do pathfinding checks. So even if the collision hull (hull 1 or 2, depending on the monster) is flat and continuous, the monster will stop if there is a visual gap. (visual gaps that are 16 or less units deep are okay because they are treated as a step down.)
So, clip brushes won't help because they are not included in hull 0.
Func_wall with a skip texture might work, through.
Thanks
#9801 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/06 04:33:46
I wondered why I couldn't let him walk the hallway, while in the old screenshots it does.
That's Cool
#9802 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/06 06:36:07
like a viking ogre or something :)
#9803 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/06 11:02:50
hehe weardo :) but look sweet!
Ogres and Vores are my favorit monsters of Quake!!!
Awesome to dance with!
OldOgre FTW
#9804 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/05/06 14:22:43
Monster_count
#9805 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/06 19:17:43
I made him a new shield.
Now my God help me with the shielding code!
Something else... I'm so far I have made a level finished. Now I'm troubled with the wrong outcome of monster-count.
I have 168 monsters, the end count is 150.
I deleted the swimmonster_start ,which is double coded in the rotten_fish code.
Where can I trace this error?
Madfox
#9806 posted by gb [89.27.232.176] on 2010/05/06 19:39:26
We have at least two coders on the team, you know? Why not ask them?
Just thinkin'.
Madfox:
#9807 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/06 20:18:40
if you have 18 fish, perhaps they are not counted. Maybe your fix for swimmonster_start is incorrect.
I'm Not Codeproof
#9808 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/06 22:58:01
@gb - you're right.
@metlslime- I assumed in the FISH.QC the part of the swimmonster_start is used twice.
First after the frame count, and later at the last line.
So I deleted the ones after the frame count.
And indeed, I used 18 fishes.
#9809 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/07 01:02:37
well, that is correct, there is originally a total_monsters = total_monsters + 1; //the fish bug in both swimmonster_start and swimmonster_start_go. if you deleted one, that should fix the problem, so maybe you accidentally deleted both?
Incidentally
#9810 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/07 01:04:56
there's a lot of redundant crap in all three of the XXXXmonster_start and _start_go functions.
these days, i like to make a function for setting up the XXXXmonster_start stuff, and then another one to set up walk targets in XXXXmonster_start_go.
this makes adding in new stuff really easy, cause you can just dump it into those functions.
probably most people do that already, but i thought it'd good to mention it in case. :)
V101QC
#9811 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/07 03:13:26
FISH.QC
line 21: void()swimmonster_start; (I deleted)
line184: swimmonster_start ();
Maybe I should turn it back in.
Can't remember where this hack was about.
#9812 posted by [88.70.64.62] on 2010/05/07 11:12:41
monsters.qc
MONSTER.QC
#9813 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/07 19:10:18
line 185:void() swimmonster_start_go =
line 229:void() swimmonster_start =
I added the line 21 in the fish.qc but I'm left with 18 monsters untraced.
Which line in monster.qc is the cause?
#9814 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/07 19:44:55
void()swimmonster_start; is a prototype, deleting that would probably just give you a compile error somewhere else.
This Might Be It For The Fish Count ?
#9815 posted by roblot [216.106.105.76] on 2010/05/07 20:07:33
You might already know this, add the " // "into monster.qc as shown below. You'll still have a duplicate line (not commented out) near the end in monster.qc
void() swimmonster_start_go =
{
if (deathmatch)
{
remove(self);
return;
}
self.takedamage = DAMAGE_AIM;
// total_monsters = total_monsters + 1;
Hammer Users...
#9816 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/08 12:11:14
Is there a way to turn off the face shading that Hammer does in the 3D viewport? It's OK in most cases but it's kinda dark in a few directions. I don't see anything in the options screen...
#9817 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/08 21:15:46
So, "no" I guess. "setgamma" ahoy!
OK, Wtf Hammer?
#9818 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/09 13:13:00
Do any of you Worldcraft/Hammer guys have any insight into this problem?
I find that tweaking entities is a maddening experience because I have to fight with Hammer to get it to write out changes to entity key/values. It just flat out doesn't do it half the time. I've taken to opening the MAP file in a text editor and verifying that the value I edited has written out correctly before bothering to compile.
I can't find the pattern. If I knew that a specific series of clicks would make it work reliably that would be one thing but I'm coming up empty.
Has anyone else experienced this? For example, I'm tweaking the "height" value for a func_plat and it seems to write my changes out randomly - sometimes will, sometimes won't.
Help?
I've Had That..
#9819 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/09 13:50:44
..very occasionally with WC1.6. always thought it would have been so much nicer to have an 'ok' button when entering entity values, as sometimes like you say it just doesn't properly read it.
that said, it wasn't as common a problem as what you are enduring by the sounds of it.. and i think it only ever happened when multiple entities were being updated at once. i found after a while that just clicking off and back on to an entity would confirm if it had been read properly
Willem
#9820 posted by spy [92.47.231.58] on 2010/05/09 18:12:39
shut the fuck up,........
#9821 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/05/10 14:11:47
spy
I didn't send you email again. Did you not receive it still?
#9822 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/10 16:59:15
calm down ladies... so much stress?
what about when u guys will have ti kids+wife+work?
suicide?
Yeah
#9823 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.4.84] on 2010/05/10 16:59:55
Take anti-aggression advice from Trinca.
/\
#9824 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/10 20:02:17
Gtkradiant
#9825 posted by billy [69.157.106.228] on 2010/05/11 05:23:25
Where should someone put their Quake textures in Gtkradiant 1.5 if they wanted to make quake maps?
In The Id1 Folder
#9826 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/05/11 05:25:06
Gtkradiant
#9827 posted by billy [69.157.106.228] on 2010/05/11 05:53:21
I have textures here: F:\quake\id1\textures\ik2k
and here:F:\Program Files\GtkRadiant 1.5.0\q1.game\id1\ik2k
Still, I see no textures.
#9828 posted by gb [89.27.229.60] on 2010/05/11 16:23:19
Texture .wad files go in id1. I don't know where individual images go, or if that even works.
quake/id1/texture.wad
Lighting Models..
#9829 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/12 02:41:47
i remember not too long ago, someone explained how models are lit in-game depending on their position & what not. can't remember the exact discussion!
i'm having some problems with crucified zombies.. here are two of them facing opposite directions at each end of the hall, same lighting:
http://isoterra.co.uk/quake/e2m6rq...
http://isoterra.co.uk/quake/e2m6rq...
one is barely visible, the other is far too bright (facing west & east respectively)
facing north & south they seem fine, again with similar surrounding light levels:
http://isoterra.co.uk/quake/e2m6rq...
how does it work again? is there a fix? :d
Thanks.
#9830 posted by billy [216.121.182.219] on 2010/05/12 03:26:00
Yeah I had this idea that the textures had to be unpacked as individual image files before gtkradiant would see them.
Rj:
#9831 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/12 03:44:00
is that fitzquake? Do you have the same problem in any other engines? (meaning, is fitzquake behaving differently?)
I've begun to suspect there is a problem with the way fitzquake interpolates light values, which results in stationary models getting lighting that may be different from the standard quake clients.
Good Point..
#9832 posted by rj [128.243.253.115] on 2010/05/12 11:41:52
yeah it is. the quakespasm sdl port. i'll try it with glquakebjp when i get home
#9833 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/12 12:51:11
metlslime join this in to do list ;)and don't forget .jpg screenshot suport
Okay..
#9834 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/12 18:53:57
so it's not fitzquake. same problem on the aforementioned :/
#9835 posted by negke [88.70.83.158] on 2010/05/12 20:10:28
What happens if you move the zombie slightly, or if you delete and reinsert (c/p) the brushes beneath him?
Rj:
#9836 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/12 20:39:37
Is the origin of the zombie directly above a single brush? Or is it above the edge between two brushes? Might be that it's randomly choosing one of the two brushes.
Rj
#9837 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2010/05/12 21:46:28
check the angles on the lights again ;)
Well There Are No Light Angles...
#9838 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/13 15:11:02
origin is directly above the edge of the little wizmet brush
tried moving the zombies slightly. bizarrely, moving the east-facing one (the bright one) 2 units back into the wall fixed it; it now lights the same as the ones in shot 3. at the other end however, moving it 2 units into the wall makes no difference and moving it 2 units out makes it fullbright. no joy re-adding the brushes either..
How Far?
#9839 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/05/14 03:45:44
The code says 12 units into the wall for a horizontal/verical wall. On a 1:1 diagonal wall, this should be reduced to 8 units.
Assuming that doesn't help, I have no idea...
What's On The Other Side?
#9840 posted by jdhack [75.155.104.171] on 2010/05/14 07:10:50
I haven't looked at the lighting code for a while, so this is just a theory. With the zombies set back into the wall, might it be possible that surfaces on the other (back) side of the wall are contributing to the lighting?
#9841 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/14 07:26:07
yeah, i wanted to ask: is the map sealed or is there some geometry behind the wall with the zombie?
i think i remember a case where it happened in an unsealed map, and when it was sealed and the outside faces culled, the problem went away.
#9842 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/14 22:56:22
i wanted to ask: is the map sealed or is there some geometry behind the wall with the zombie?
i think i remember a case where it happened in an unsealed map, and when it was sealed and the outside faces culled, the problem went away
well, it was unsealed and that wall backed out into the void.
so i tried doing a full compile of the whole map, which is sealed in its entirety, so i could test your theory.
i then went to the area and noclipped up to inspect... and only THEN remembered that in my fed up frustration the other night i ended up ditching the zombie altogether and replacing him with a hanging flag ;/
= dunce ;/
#9843 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/14 23:24:32
i hope you don't mind, but i had a good chuckle at your expense. that sort of thing happens to me all too often. ^_^
Mapstructure Versus Info_notnull
#9844 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/18 19:44:36
I'm on the end of my map and I'm trying to get it realvised.
After the -th version I keep this error of some brushes that keep disapearing in some views. I tried everything to get it right, force to grid, reshaping but the error remains.
As I look at the mapstructure the brushes are changed from MapStructure to info_notnull.
I haven't given them these option, it just occured.
Could it be the root of this malviewing?
Madfox
#9845 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.78.239] on 2010/05/18 20:12:42
needs Hammer ;)
Out Of Nails
#9846 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/18 20:15:33
I thought it was mapping help..,
let's have another editor.
Mapping
#9847 posted by roblot [216.106.105.208] on 2010/05/19 14:10:54
I use the BSP editor, and I have to be careful and always use the Esc Key on my keyboard to de-select brushes before selecting brushes for an entity. If not, some selected brushes (not in my view) could get an entity applied that I didn't want.
I don't think you want to force to grid all your brushes after you draw them or clip them. First select the grid you want, like 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, units etc, and draw your brushes to that brush(grid) resolution, or clip to that unit resolution.
Brush entities that disappear while viewing at different angles may be due to being built partially out of your level. Large multiple brush entities that span a level could do the same. Giant sized multiple brush entities can be made though, that don't disappear.
#9848 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/19 14:23:57
work with grid 1 for what?
force to grid? :\
This is the kind of tools "not to be used"
I Try Not To Go Any Smaller
#9849 posted by RickyT23 [81.131.104.130] on 2010/05/19 16:16:07
than a 16x16 grid. It happens sometimes, but usually I keep the grid that size or bigger. And yes - as I am dragging out my new brushes they are snapping to the grid.
Also selecting another brush in WC will always de-select any other brushes unless you are holding the shift or control key.
Also WC has the ability to send any brush entities back to being normal brushes. Just select the entity and click on a button "to world".
#9850 posted by roblot [216.106.106.68] on 2010/05/19 18:26:12
Yup, I usually use grid 16 and higher, but for clipping I sometimes go down to 1 and 2 units when making something over 50 faces.
Forcing to grid, not sure how that works, but if a grid is changed is the brush going to adjust to the new grid when selected? That might explain things.
And, my previous editor also de-selected as a new brush was selected. BSP is opposite and hard to get used to, but I'm managing. That's the main reason, I think, that people hate changing editors. Unlearn'id what they learned!
Force To Grid
#9851 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/19 21:47:24
I have this cave with sidebrushes of triangular shapes to make a terrain shape.
Some brushes fit well, others don't.
The ones that won't fit I force to grid on 1 unit grid. As the center of the brush is placed back to integers the outside can change.
The only way to avoid hom's of the sidebrushes was to change them all into func_wall.
Problem solved, signon calling to minimize the func_entities.
#9852 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/20 10:23:53
what light and vis command you guys use?
mine:
e:\Quake I\quark\QTools\Vis.exe -level 4 -priority 0
e:\Quake I\quark\QTools\Light.exe -extra4 -gate 1 -addmin -range 0.45 -dist 0.8
Wow
#9853 posted by spy [89.218.8.140] on 2010/05/20 11:55:26
what light and vis command you guys use?
mine:
e:\Quake I\quark\QTools\Vis.exe -level 4 -priority 0
e:\Quake I\quark\QTools\Light.exe -extra4 -gate 1 -addmin -range 0.45 -dist 0.8
#9854 posted by roblot [216.106.105.72] on 2010/05/20 14:11:54
Gotta try those commands out some time, I still just use -level 4 and -extra. I'm new to Agguire's tools. Been using something like "delay" "2" and "wait" "1" on lights, and stuff looks alot better.
Madfox, if you make all your brushes with the grid at 16, and move edges and points around to make terrain, everything should match-up at the 16 unit grid. No need to move something 1 unit. Also, if every brush is made and clipped on the grid ( grid from 1 to 128 units and larger), all brushes should be integer.
I played lots of your levels and can see brush points less than 1 unit, though. So, it's just something you need to setup properly in your editor. Trinca will write you a tutorial!
Wait 1
#9855 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/20 14:31:10
..is the default behaviour just so you know. wait 0.5 makes the light cover twice the radius without increasing the brightness level, wait 2 halves it, and so on. so if you have a high light value with a high wait, it will create a small bright spot, whilst low brightness & low wait will dimly light a wide area.
although i confess i only use -soft out of those compile options, and -extra4 on the final compile. need to look into them a little more...
#9856 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/05/20 14:37:38
roblot whould be a cool stuff... me making a tutorial... my English rockzzz :\
will be a peace of crap :p
Grid 1
#9857 posted by gb [89.27.221.103] on 2010/05/20 15:08:57
I use grid 1 quite often for details - building complicated door shapes to exactly match the texture, making buttons that exactly line up with the cutout in the texture. That sort of stuff.
I regularly use grid 2 when making ladders or handrails.
No problems, rarely get any error messages.
Radiant's Translate tool makes sure it all stays on grid.
Thanks
#9858 posted by roblot [216.106.105.42] on 2010/05/20 17:31:34
Didn't know that "wait" "1", I just copy other peoples stuff alot. Trinca you really should send out editor setup info or something. I think it would help. Some people speak other languages, so reading english makes mapping twice as hard. If I had to learn another language, like British or something, I'd never know what I was doing.
Grid
#9859 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/20 20:08:14
vis -level4
light -dist 0.7 -range 0.7 -light 15 -extra -soft
ingame light wait 0.3
terrain maps.
I know it sounds weird, but I tried to make a triangular brush that fits exact on the 16 grid.
Normal triangel brushes always go off grid. So I placed the boundary on the 16 point grid and keep hashling the corners untill they fit on the gridpoint.
After forcing this brush to grid I used copies of it to make a large flat surface. Then I raised all the triangles and made them sloping.
By doing so, the centre of the brush gets offgrid again what results in these coarsed lines.
Then it tends to the compiler to show what's the outcome. Sometimes they match fine, sometimes it needs new forcing to grid.
I know this sound rather strange, but I was curious when I saw the original triangular brushes, with their angles of grid.
With good use of light it can be minimized.
That's in Quark6.5 alpha.
#9860 posted by roblot [216.106.106.184] on 2010/05/20 21:34:08
Maybe try this.
1. First set grid. Brushes placed should snap to this grid setting when adjusted.
2. Place all the square or rectangle brushes you need. Oh yea, turn off texture lock!
3. Make the triangles you need out of the squares and rectangles, or slope the square and rectangle brushes as needed.
If the editor does this wrong, then it's giving you a hard time. The BSP editor does much more complex copy, paste, merge, and rotate of multiple brushes really well.
#9861 posted by generic [67.233.136.232] on 2010/05/21 01:02:36
Oh yea, turn off texture lock!
Has MadFox ever turned on texture lock?
I Say It's On
#9862 posted by roblot [216.106.107.15] on 2010/05/21 18:08:10
But only Madfox knows fur sure. It's funny, I downloaded Travail (great stuff)over a year ago and still have 2 levels to go. I downloaded Abandon (witchcraft was best)just about 2 weeks ago and finished it, only missing 1 secret level. Go figure?
#9863 posted by spy [89.218.23.182] on 2010/05/21 18:20:30
But only Madfox knows fur sure. It's funny, I downloaded Travail (great stuff)over a year ago and still have 2 levels to go. I downloaded Abandon (witchcraft was best)just about 2 weeks ago and finished it, only missing 1 secret level. Go figure?
you like an abandon better? :rofl:
Is It A Quark Option?
#9864 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/05/21 20:35:54
I thought it no question as I found no texturelock in Quark6.5
(I might be wrong?).
Also there is no compromise between the two mods, as the first is a project of compagnionship and the other a one man thing.
@roblot- here's a figure. It's a sideway underwater in amount/r2b2.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/amoun...
There are a few demo's on modBcom :
http://www.moddb.com/mods/abandon
Nehahra Too...
#9865 posted by roblot [216.106.106.111] on 2010/05/21 22:29:36
Gotta play some more of it sometime also. Must be gaming mood or something. But Travail is much better, and is almost as good as what I'm doing... Ha!
If texture-lock is on and you copy the brush just above the tunnel, then move it to the right, you'll have mis-matched texture tiling as seen in photo(unless that seem falls on the 128 grid). With texture-lock off, your terrain will tile seemless. Unless you want a staggard tile look for a reason.
I know almost nothing about Quark but you say you got alfa? At Quaddicted I've seen beta4 or something. Also, you might have multiple installs of Quark or upgrades that conflict in the configs of the programs? Try complete uninstall, including registry items in Windows(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE - SOFTWARE folder), maybe.
What's Better ?
#9866 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/05/22 12:02:34
when you make a room out of a cube, to make it hollow outwards (-) or inwards (+) ?
I would think outwards would be better because the inside of your cube would be lined to the grid. (?)
Repent Sinner, Repent !!
#9867 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/05/22 12:15:51
Never use hollow maker: this is blasphemy !!!
Why Not ?
#9868 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/05/22 12:38:06
Really, I've always used it ...
When You Build A Box..
#9869 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/22 12:53:25
..with the amount of clipping you then have to do to 'open it up', you're probably no better off than had you laid it down brush by brush
i only use hollow for misc entity boxes out in the void (teleporting monsters, spikeshooters etc)
There Are Good Reasons....
#9870 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/05/22 14:20:10
... not to use Hollow makers: check #1461 and after.... since this time I never used again Hollow maker, believe me: it is safer !!!
Blasphemy !! Heresy !! You'll all burn in Hell !!
#9871 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/22 16:08:16
Guys, he said he was hollowing out a cube. If you're using an editor that can't successfully hollow out an axis aligned cube, it's time to find a new editor.
#9872 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/22 16:27:30
Guys, he said he was hollowing out a cube. If you're using an editor that can't successfully hollow out an axis aligned cube, it's time to find a new editor.
i'm not sure how you deduced that from what i wrote?
ron: to answer your question, if you hollow inwards (at least in WC) it should still align to the grid as it goes by the thickness of the walls, so it makes little difference. but it's generally better practice to construct rooms brush-by-brush in most cases, partly because it gives you more control but mainly because it helps discourage the old boxroom-corridor-boxroom syndrome :P ..although it is still useful for throwing testmaps together and the likes
#9873 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/22 17:13:08
I don't see how you figured I was replying specifically to you.
#9874 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/22 18:08:11
because it was only JPL and me who responded to the question, and 'guys' clearly indicates a plural?
Rj
#9875 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/05/22 18:27:30
...it's generally better practice to construct rooms brush-by-brush in most cases, partly because it gives you more control but mainly because it helps discourage the old boxroom-corridor-boxroom syndrome :P
I fully concur with you ! Thqt is exactely the point... hats-off...
Rj
#9876 posted by Spirit [80.171.98.43] on 2010/05/22 19:18:39
Willem would have sent you a mail if the reply was for you only. Don't be so selfish and egocentric.
Ok, enough. :-P
#9877 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/05/22 19:45:23
"because it was only JPL and me who responded to the question, and 'guys' clearly indicates a plural?"
FFS.
Mindless Pedantry Or A Point To Be Taken?
#9878 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/22 19:53:02
you decide.
But Back On The Subject Of Mapping Help..
#9879 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/22 23:51:12
..does anyone have any insight into why all switchable lights would fail when compiling a full map? they work fine when compiling each section individually (it's split into about 6-7 'areas' in the form of visgroups) but can only display at full brightness when the whole thing is done, whether the 'start off' spawnflag is on or off. no errors in the light log or anything..
it's a bit of a limitbusting map if that counts for anything, breaks just about all of them...
#9880 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/23 00:10:23
have you checked if you're getting any 'too many lightstyles' errors?
also, i've accidentally ticked the 'not in xskill' box on a light and not have it toggle because it wasn't present in that particular skill level.
if it's 'limit busting', it's possible you have run out of lightstyles.
you get 64 total light styles, the first 10 (not including 0) are for flickering lights, and the compilers only assign 32-64 (or 32-63?). so in actuality, you only get 32 light styles; 32 seperate switchable lights. i'm not sure if light.exe will collapse multiple lights with the same targetname into the same lightstyle or not, although it should otherwise even stock quake maps would have 'too many lightstyles' errors.
Hollow
#9881 posted by pjw [75.128.249.127] on 2010/05/23 03:58:54
Some editors will, when "hollow" is used on a cube to create a square room, make a nice square room of six brushes...but the brushes will all still stretch to the extents of the original cube, and will overlap.
Will a decent compiler usually clean this up and toss out the overlapping bits? Yes, usually, but it will still be messy in the editor, and potentially confusing.
Nothing wrong with hollow as long as you do any necessary clean up the result afterward.
#9882 posted by pjw [75.128.249.127] on 2010/05/23 04:00:01
"on" the result, rather...
Thanks For All The Replies
#9883 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/05/23 09:33:08
What I usually do (in Worldcraft) is
- make a cube the size of your room to be.
- make it hollow outwards
- ungroup the thing,so your left with 6 brushes
- copy and paste (special, to same location) a brush 4 times and then shape them to fit a door in, 1 for the door, 1 for the left of the door, and for the right and one for above the door.
It does work that way.
I don't know if it's smart or handy though.
The thing with mapping is that you basically have to learn how to do it yourself.
The tutorials only show you the basics.
I still find it very difficult to find efficient ways to achieve things.
That's why I love this website ... ;)
Hey...
#9884 posted by roblot [216.106.105.141] on 2010/05/23 15:47:08
You know that combat music in Star Trek when Captain Kirk is battling a Klingon in the arena (with pick axe, spear, and shovel), well that music was playing in my head a few posts up.
I was thinking, HollowMaker sounds like an excellent stand-alone program that could work this way. First you make a cube in any of the editors available. Next, export the cube. Now, import the cube into HollowMaker. It has just 1 button, Hollow_out ! Now export and import into your favorite map editor. Voila ! So easy, and you'll want to do it over and over again.
I feel so hollow... Hey wait! HollowMaker hollowed out my brain.
Where is it?
It's in Quark? But I use BSP...
Spock, help get my brain back!
...my next map title...
Sounds Like You Need UEd
#9885 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/23 16:23:26
#9886 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/23 17:08:38
have you checked if you're getting any 'too many lightstyles' errors?
hrm, i compiled again to check, and this time it worked okay.. bizarre.
it is something where just because it works correctly one time it doesn't mean it will work all the time? or can i assume that it either compiled correctly or it didn't?
#9887 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/23 20:02:35
did you run a -onlyents? remember to run a -onlyents on both bsp and (aguire's) light to reconnect lightstyles with the entities.
-onlyents on bsp breaks that connection (probably cause it can change the order of entities).
Ahh
#9888 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/23 21:10:11
that would be the problem :)
didn't realise there was an onlyents light option.. thanks. will have to add it to your compiler gui 8)
#9889 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/23 21:25:51
cool, glad it's been useful! ^_^
Quake Sounds And Sample Rate...
#9890 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/05/25 11:21:57
what's the deal with quake sounds?
I thought they had to be 11kHz 8bit mono, but i just made a 44kHz 16bit mono sound and it loaded in both fitzquake and winquake... so is that okay? Is dosquake the only quake that needs 11kHz 8bit sounds?
#9891 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.232] on 2010/05/25 11:34:24
The beta or qtest used 44khz so I think it was a size or performance decision.
#9892 posted by onetruepurple [89.77.120.196] on 2010/05/25 12:06:38
Your 44kHz sound will still be downsampled to 11kHz, though, unless you set -sndspeed 44100 in the commandline (which doesn't work in Fitz085 as far as I can tell).
#9893 posted by gb [89.27.208.118] on 2010/05/26 01:15:40
11kHz .wav files are much smaller, so yeah, that will have been the reason. Considering the download speeds of the mid-Nineties, small sound files = good sound files.
Decent engines support -sndspeed 44100, I'm pretty sure it works with FitzSDL / Quakespasm. Under Linux and for me at least.
Still, -sndspeed 44100 will not magically restore Quake's sounds to their original quality. Once downsampled, those ones and zeroes are gone forever.
All that -sndspeed 44100 does is play 44.1kHz .wav files at the correct quality. 11kHz files will be nominally upsampled for playback, but the lost information remains lost. As with dried fruit - you can't magically restore them by putting in water.
id ruined Quake's sounds to save space, which is understandable for the shareware part (download size), but idiotic when you have CDs (and the soundtrack is 44.1kHz anyway).
Also, yes, it is OK. Dunno about Dosquake, but I'd be willing to bet it is OK with that as well.
And just a notice: Mappers and modders who provide 11kHz sounds along with their products are shooting themselves in the foot. There is no benefit to that, only drawbacks.
If you provide 11 kHz 8 bit sounds with your map, and someone plays your (Quoth or otherwise) map under RemakeQuake with -sndspeed 44100, the quality of your sounds will be comparatively (and noticeably) bad, at least if the player has good ears and is wearing headphones. In short, 11kHz sounds are pretty dated and will become obsolete in the future, maybe not with RemakeQuake, but eventually it's inevitable.
Whereas when you don't downsample them, they'll be converted automatically at runtime and fit right in with Quoth etc. 11kHz sounds, so there is no problem at all AND your sounds are future proof.
Spirit
#9894 posted by gb [89.27.208.118] on 2010/05/26 01:17:40
> The beta or qtest used 44khz
I think I checked all of those distributions and TMK that was not the case.
If you have a version of id Quake with 44.1kHz sounds, I would like to see (or rather, hear) it.
#9895 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/26 02:17:29
i always downsample my stuff to 11khz 16bit and 8bit if the sound has constant volume. if you leave the built in downsampler do the job itself, it does it on a similar level as the image resizer in glquake. (sucks)
#9896 posted by Spirit [80.171.127.195] on 2010/05/26 10:14:01
http://web.archive.org/web/2008040...
Then search for the filenames.
#9897 posted by roblot [216.106.106.64] on 2010/05/26 14:02:15
I'm surprised how well some sounds and music can be at 11 khz 16 bit. Currently, I'm mixing everything at 44 khz 16 bit stereo, then make a final downsample copy at 22 khz 16 bit mono for glquake. Lower recording levels keep sound quality at par between the different sample rates. I'd say choose 11 khz 16 bit over 22 khz 8 bit though, 16 bit is more important.
#9898 posted by gb [89.27.208.118] on 2010/05/26 15:58:12
8 bit is really grotty.
I also think that the downsampling is done by the sound card, and hence the quality of that might play a role, but I don't know for sure.
I don't see the small loss by downsampling in realtime from 44 -> 11 kHz as a problem, considering the abysmal quality that comes with 11kHz anyway.
The result of downsampling *always* sucks.
Spirit
#9899 posted by gb [89.27.208.118] on 2010/05/26 16:01:13
Ah OK, thanks. But I'm pretty sure I looked at all of the QTest sounds and almost none of them are 44kHz - a fair bit are 22kHz though.
#9900 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/27 03:10:57
The result of downsampling *always* sucks.
I figure you'd better make sure your sounds are still acceptable when downsampled. For example if your sound is primarily high-pitched, it will be destroyed by 11kHz downsampling, and you should probably come up with a different sound. If it's mostly low with the high pitch adding just a crisper overall sound, then the people playing with 11kHz mixing will at least hear something appropriate.
Well
#9901 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/05/27 14:10:01
this are basically DSP (Digital Signal Processing) theory: you can over-sample, nor down-sample a signal without interpolation filtering..
For down-sampling it is straight forward as soon as the new sampling rate is a multliple of the original sampling rate (e.g x1/2). Additionally, it is obvious that human ear dynamic range has to be taken into account (that is in [20Hz:20kHz] range)... So sampling a signal @11kHz is quite crappy except if you are almost deaf, at 22kHz it can be acceptable if there are not that much high frequency (i.e above 11kHz)... and 44kHz is the best..
Furthermore, remind that each individual has its own ear dynamic that vary a lot with age: a children has a higher dynamic range than an gran'ma generally...
Anyway, there are no better method than never down-sample a sound under 22kHz if you want an good (or acceptable) sound quality... and also a good soundcard ;)
Light Question Again..
#9902 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/27 18:09:15
how crucial is the 'too many lightstyles on a face' warning? will it crash old engines or just cause stuff to not light properly?
4 is an annoyingly low limit
Too Many Lightstyle....
#9903 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/05/27 19:44:26
Extract from aguirRe's tool tips: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
"Too many light styles on a face, lightmap point near (x y z), tex, light->origin (x y z)"
Too many styled (torches, flickering etc) lights in the specified area. Reduce # styled lights or their range in that area. You can also try option "-gate #" to limit the range of
attenuated lights.
Actually the limit depends of your light tool, but as explained above it can be easily solved by reducing the number of lightstyle on a face... maybe you should contact aguirRe and ask his advices... and if you are lucky, he could do you a favor by sorting out a new light tool with increased limit regarding lightstyle... who knows ;)
#9904 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/27 20:22:39
i don't think it's just a tool limitation or aguirre would have pumped it up higher.
what will happen is that the light on those faces from the extra lightstyles just won't be shwon. this can lead to hard edges between lights.
aguirre's light is better than most and will try to discard the least visible one or prefering to use the minlight/sunlight before anything else.
still, it's something that you should try to avoid.
as for old engines, the problem will look the same as in new engines (unless it's an engine with real time lights of course).
#9905 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/27 21:13:51
cheers jpl but it is kinda obvious what it means & how to prevent it ;p just wanted to know what the negative impact on the map was.
what will happen is that the light on those faces from the extra lightstyles just won't be shwon. this can lead to hard edges between lights.
i see.. i usually get it when attenuated lights spill over into the next room and i don't think the effect has ever been noticeable. excessive compile warnings are never nice but until now that's been the only reason i've tried to avoid it..
#9906 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/05/27 22:01:49
Dumb question but where are those orange textures that I see people shelling L4D and HL2 maps with? Which WAD?
#9907 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/28 10:14:16
rj: yeah, like you'll never notice it if the overlapping areas have only a small amount of light shining on it, but try placing several bright switchable lights like 128 units apart and you'll definitely see it. sometimes it can be ignored, and sometimes not. :S
Rj
#9908 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/05/28 12:45:54
Negative effect in map is also straightforward: bad lightning on a face can simply gives somes weird shadow effects, making the lightning completely unrealistic...
..or Not, In My Case
#9909 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/28 13:19:27
the effect wasn't visible so it seemed like it could have been a false warning that possibly only applied to old engines and/or may have caused problems loading the map in some setups...
i know now that isn't the case, however that was not as obvious as suggesting that a 'too many lightstyles on a face' problem can be solved by reducing the number of lightstyles on that face... capiche? ;)
Rj.... The Italian Buddy...
#9910 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/05/28 15:48:14
Well, I should have written ...bad lightning on a face may simply gives somes weird shadow effects.
Actually, if the tool generates the warning, it means there is a problem. It does not mean it is visible, as it certainly depends of each individual light strength on the face that generates the issue...
I remember having such warnings in my very first map, and that I never noticed any weird light/shadow effects ingame....
So you have to inspect the area ingame, and then:
- either you are lucky and you don't give a shit to the warning as nothing is clearly visible
- or you are in deep shit as you have to rework your lightning effects....
Experiment !!
Rj:
#9911 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/05/28 20:02:37
this is not an old engine vs. new engine bug. The bsp format only allows 4 light styles per face, so light.exe will pick four and if there was a 5th style, its light will not be present on that face.
What JPL says is true: if the extra style was contributing a very low amount of light to that face; its absence will not be noticeable.
If yo do need to fix it, you should reduce the number of switchable lights or styled lights in the vicinity of that face -- either fewer styles, or fewer targetnames (for switchable lights) or give those lights a smaller radius or something. (assuming the lighting tool gives coordinates of the face.)
Yes.
#9912 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/05/28 20:20:06
i gather that now. nonetheless i thank you for your detailed reiteration of JPLs reiteration of necros' answer to my original question ;)
I Vaguely Remember That Error
#9913 posted by Lardarse [62.31.162.25] on 2010/05/29 14:47:19
But what I remember more is one compiler giving the error, and not another, in exactly the same map. Any ideas?
Willem
#9914 posted by roblot [216.106.105.87] on 2010/05/29 15:33:51
I sent some wads out to Quaketastic, not the stuff you mentioned though. Was too early to think staight also...
Re: 9913
#9915 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/05/30 00:20:59
different compilers compile differently? ^_^;
Hitting The Decks
#9916 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.111.43] on 2010/06/01 19:44:10
When a scragg is killed and falls to the floor, how is the floor being detected i.e. time to stop falling, - is it within qc or is it an engine thing?
#9917 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/01 21:01:46
scrag uses hull1 when doing collision. all collision is done by the engine.
Snap2grid
#9918 posted by negke [88.70.61.128] on 2010/06/04 19:38:11
Is there a way (shortcut) to snap brushes to the grid in gtkr1.5?
It's Like...
#9919 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/06/04 20:16:02
ctrl-g isn't it? Or is that only in previous versions?
#9920 posted by negke [88.70.61.128] on 2010/06/04 20:23:48
Yes, that's it. Thanks
This Train Is Being Stubborn
#9921 posted by Orl [69.253.226.218] on 2010/06/07 01:15:08
I'm always positive I did something like this in the past, but for whatever reason now, it isn't working.
I have a func_train which sits at destination 1. You have to trigger it to get it to move to destination 2. It arrives at destination 2 and stops until triggered again, to go back at destination 1, and the process repeats.
The problem is, the train stops at destination 2 and stays there, regardless if I try to trigger it again. I've tried setting its path_corner to "wait" "9999999" but it doesnt seem to make a difference.
What can I do to get this train working the way I want it to? I'm sure its something very simple that I've overlooked.
#9922 posted by Willem [24.163.61.78] on 2010/06/07 01:49:19
I think it's "wait" "-1" isn't it?
#9923 posted by Orl [69.253.226.218] on 2010/06/07 01:51:27
I tried "wait" "-1" as well, same result unfortunately.
#9924 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/06/07 02:30:43
i'm not so sure that's possible with standard progs.
#9925 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/07 02:39:44
it's not. the stock func_train is very rudimentary. :(
if you're just going from one point to another without any other paths in between, you could just use a toggleable door, otherwise, you're out of luck. :S
You Can In Quoth Cant You?
#9926 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.78.214] on 2010/06/07 03:33:45
#9927 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/07 03:46:06
yeah, hipnotic progs also has this (which is where it's from).
Darn...
#9928 posted by Orl [69.253.226.218] on 2010/06/07 03:54:53
Was hoping there would be a solution. And yes, the train does run on multiple paths.
Well fellas, I hope you won't mind waiting for the train when it comes time to ride on it again.
Hm
#9929 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/07 05:12:23
if you replace the shub teleball with a blank model (like with a single vertex or something) and just have it move at the same speed right above the train, you could have a teleporter that brings you to it.
it's not a great solution, of course.
Orl
#9930 posted by negke [88.70.251.251] on 2010/06/07 12:43:45
A multiple-platform train, then. Or shortcut teleporters opening up after it has reached its destination.
Shortcut Teleporters
#9931 posted by SleepwalkR [141.23.20.26] on 2010/06/07 14:16:19
are handy, but they thwart immersion because they are usually incoherent with the theme of the surroundings. Why would there be a platform, for example in a base, in the first place if people could just use a teleporter? Why do the teleporters open only after you have used the platform?
I think if you cannot make it work with a platform, and cannot deliver a reason to use the platform in the first place, then you should think of something else.
It's a different matter if your theme is more fantastic, of course. If your surroundings are surreal and don't make sense (Contract Revoked would be an example), you can get away with being incoherent. But still I would prefer if such gimmicks are used only where they make some sort of sense in the context of your surroundings.
Switchable Lights Question
#9932 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/06/10 17:01:32
Is it possible to make one button trigger multiple lights that go on at different times ?
It must be possible, I've seen it done, but I don't know how. Maybe a relay or something ?
Or can you ad a "wait" to the lights ?
I don't know, please help me out.
At SleepwalkR
#9933 posted by [86.80.123.127] on 2010/06/10 17:09:19
I agree with what you are saying, but it's Quake we're talking about, not a game that tries to be realistic. I hate using teleports because they are an easy way out. If you fuck up your map design, just ad a teleporter and you're back in business. I hate that. But you can also have some fun with it by letting the monsters use it as well. Fragging them that way is sort of fun.
It's also handy when you have to fight lots of Vores. If there are too many "balls" chasing you, you can "clean them up" by teleporting, preferably somewhere in the same room.
#9934 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/10 19:07:52
Is it possible to make one button trigger multiple lights that go on at different times ?
...
Maybe a relay or something
trigger_relay is pretty much made for this kind of thing.
Re ?
#9935 posted by SleepwalkR [78.52.98.151] on 2010/06/10 19:26:52
I'm not saying that you should be realistic, I'm saying you should be coherent. That's a difference ;-)
I Don't Understand Trigger_relay
#9936 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/06/10 21:51:46
I made a Func_button, pointing to a Trigger_relay, set a delay in there, pointing to 4 lights, who then target the relay again.
But when the button is pushed, after a while (probably the set delay ?) all the lights go on at the same time.
I don't understand how I have to make it work.
#9937 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/10 22:33:01
trigger_relay fires it's targets after delay.
so make more than one trigger_relay with different delays to trigger the lights at different times.
#9938 posted by negke [88.70.250.215] on 2010/06/10 22:34:12
The button targets four relays; each of these then targets one of the lights with a respective delay.
Thanks A Lot !
#9939 posted by Ron [86.80.123.127] on 2010/06/11 08:39:16
I would never have figured that one out, that you have to use one trigger_relay for each light.
Cheers !
FQ Windowed
#9940 posted by Mike Woodham [86.176.196.176] on 2010/06/16 20:20:38
How do I get Fitz to run in a window?
#9941 posted by negke [88.70.252.252] on 2010/06/16 21:07:56
fitzquake.exe -window
Negke
#9942 posted by Mike Woodham [86.176.196.176] on 2010/06/16 21:36:02
Oh, that's just too easy - I would never have got there!
Thanks.
Minimum Light Level
#9943 posted by Mathuz [95.103.72.250] on 2010/06/18 16:34:49
Hi. How can I set the minimum light level when using darkplaces with Quake 1? With normal quake light level in worldspawn will do, but not with darkplaces.
Looped Sounds
#9944 posted by Mike Woodham [86.176.196.176] on 2010/06/19 09:46:53
It is a long time since I did anything with sound: how do I tell if a sound is looped or not? I have GoldWave 5.19
#9945 posted by negke [88.70.232.187] on 2010/06/19 10:02:40
Mathuz: set "_light" in the worldspawn entity or compile with "light.exe -light #"
Mike: Check if the loop flag is set in the wav properties and look for a cue point/loop marker.
Negke
#9946 posted by Mike Woodham [86.176.196.176] on 2010/06/19 10:22:14
Doh! I don't know how to view the .wav properties.
I Can't Remember And Don't Have GW Installed, Either
#9947 posted by negke [88.70.67.142] on 2010/06/19 11:23:04
Try the Help dialog/manual. Or good old trial and error.
Re: Looped Sounds
#9948 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/19 17:51:00
i'm not sure, but it should just show up in the main editor window.
cue points/regions/loops are usually represented as like a dotted line crossing the waveform or a chevron at the top where the timeline is.
Loops
#9949 posted by Mike Woodham [86.176.196.176] on 2010/06/19 18:24:29
OK, got it now. As you say, loops = Cue Points.
Thanks both.
#9950 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/19 19:17:49
well, there are 3 distinct markers in wav files from what i've seen.
cue points which are exactly that-- points
regions which are two points linked together to define a region between the two
loops which are sometimes called sustain loops which are like regions but allow you to specify things like # of loops so you could actually have multiple loops that play different # of times in the same .wav file, although not many wav players will actually follow those loops. the only program i know of that makes use of sustain loops is tracker programs like modplug.
quake only seems to accept cues and regions and from what i remember, ignores sustain loops. i guess this is mostly just an fyi but i thought maybe it might be useful to know in case you ever have a wav that's not looping that is supposed to or something.
Cool Edit
#9951 posted by MadFox [84.26.170.230] on 2010/06/20 23:52:06
has a feather to save waves single or looped and is shareware.
Confused:
#9952 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.78.214] on 2010/06/25 19:25:43
Making lights into func_illusionarys (just cuboid lights) increases vertex count!!!
Im at the point where only AGLQuake will run my map because I have hit the vertex limit. of about 65000.
What's the easiest way of reducing vertexes? Why does making a light brush into a func_illusionary increase the count?
#9953 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/06/25 19:41:42
"What's the easiest way of reducing vertexes?"
I'm going to go ahead and state the obvious - delete stuff.
"Making Lights Into Func_illusionarys"
#9954 posted by negke [88.70.228.199] on 2010/06/25 19:53:00
What?
#9955 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/06/25 21:49:21
whether a brush is world or bmodel, it's still geometry and hence has vertices. also, don't forget that the compiler doesn't know what a func_illusionary is, so bmodels, whether they are solid or not at runtime still generate collision stuffs.
use r_showtris to see how the bsp face splitting is behaving in the area but yeah, the only real way to reduce vertices is to reduce geometry.
neg: i'm working under the assumption he's talking about light fixtures
there's some kind of limit in the engine in how big a face can be and it's related to the size of the texture on it. scaling the texture up means the face can be that much bigger.
if you scale textures up, this will require bsp to split faces less but obviously can't be done just anywhere.
#9956 posted by Willem [24.199.192.130] on 2010/06/25 21:56:55
I remember Levelord talking about that back in the mission pack days. He said he would take back faces that the player can't see and scale them to high heaven to reduce cuts.
Yeah
#9957 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.78.214] on 2010/06/25 23:10:14
No - its sorted now. I was saving a new version then compiling an older version. It was wierd - I had some light fixtures which were causeign face-splitting, say small octagons for example too, and i was func_illusionarying them but it didnt seem to reduce the vertices.
Turns out I was compiling the wrong map file!!! Stupid Rick.....
Uhm
#9958 posted by ijed [190.20.99.216] on 2010/06/26 02:08:43
Use the RMQ engine. Which is as of right now Quakespasm. Soon it will have some interesting stiff.
I can't elaborate because it all depends on others - I can't look into learning how to code an engine right now.
In any case, that issue sounds odd. Maybe I'm not understanding it right. Long way to go yet.
Aztec/inca/maya Textures?
#9959 posted by CocoT [98.212.152.170] on 2010/06/29 00:33:58
Hello!
Does anyone know if there are high-def versions of the Quake1 maya textures anywhere?
And if not, do you know of a good source of aztec/maya/inca-inspired high-def tga/jpg textures I could use? (I'm mapping in Darkplaces)
Any pointer will be appreciated! :)
Cocot
#9960 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/06/29 10:30:59
I think sock made some for maya theme, but I'm at work can't see is site... see is profile and go to is webpage!
#9961 posted by CocoT [98.212.152.170] on 2010/06/29 19:49:35
Thanks, Trinca! I found his site when I was searching earlier, actually. There is no inca set per se, but at map (Pyramid of the Magician) that is inca-themed. Maybe I could extract and use some of the textures from it...
His Egyptian set is really cool (and big), so I could also use that instead - I was just a little worried that it would be even more cliche... ;P
This One?
#9962 posted by meTch [99.29.28.210] on 2010/06/30 02:45:14
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/tp-...
Erm...
#9963 posted by CocoT [98.212.152.170] on 2010/06/30 05:19:51
Yes, I think so, well the high-def version of it: http://www.simonoc.com/pages/mater... :)
Yeah
#9964 posted by BARTUC [87.4.218.99] on 2010/07/05 23:22:56
Fantastic textures pack :D
GG
Chthon Lava Balls
#9965 posted by negke [88.70.254.231] on 2010/07/09 21:44:40
What distance do they fly until they're removed - 1024 units?
My Balls Last For 1792 Units
#9966 posted by Chthon [88.70.254.231] on 2010/07/09 21:59:02
Quoth Sound Issue... Continuing
#9967 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/10 21:11:57
necros said a while ago in #7873: play_sound_triggered still does have the ability to stop a looping sound from playing. as long as impulse is set, if a play_sound_triggered (with the toggle flag on) is triggered again, the sound will be stopped.
I tested it and it does not work, so I guess I forgot something. Here it is and how it looks in .map file
{
"classname" "play_sound_triggered"
"origin" "-2912 0 88"
"noise" "ambience/jpl/lava_rubble_loo...
"volume" "0.7"
"speed" "-1"
"targetname" "HellRubble"
"toggle" "1"
"impulse" "0"
}
Obviously the entity will be triggered by two different triggers (actually a target2 field in two different func_teleport)...
So would anybody consider to help me please ?
Play_sound_triggered
#9968 posted by roblot [216.106.107.45] on 2010/07/11 00:30:08
I didn't try this yet, but what you got looks correct.
"impulse" "0" I think is always default.
so maybe try "impulse" "1"
2 Things
#9969 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/11 19:34:16
"toggle" is incorrect. toggle is a bitflag in spawnflags with the value 1, so it should be replaced with "spawnflags" "1" (or add the appropriate checkbox in your editor).
and then, as roblot said, "impulse" has to be non-zero. if you set impulse to 0, it basically acts as if you didn't put anything at all.
Roblot/necros
#9970 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/07/12 10:23:24
OK, I understand my mistakes. Thanks a lot to you guys.
I'll try it this evening ;)
Argh... Still Does Not Work
#9971 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/12 20:09:52
In .map file it looks like this:
I have two trigger teleports that have a "target" destination, and a "target2" that triggers the play_sound_triggerd item, as shown below
// ToHell:g[2] -> Entities:g[9] -> trigger_teleport:b[19]
{
"classname" "trigger_teleport"
"spawnflags" "2"
"target" "InHell"
"target2" "HellRubble"
// Brush 0
And with the modification you suggested, the play_sound_triggered item looks like this
// HellPart1:g[3] -> Entities:g[1] -> play_sound_triggered:e[2]
{
"classname" "play_sound_triggered"
"origin" "-2912 0 88"
"noise" "ambience/jpl/lava_rubble_loo...
"volume" "0.7"
"speed" "-1"
"targetname" "HellRubble"
"spawnflags" "1"
"impulse" "1"
}
What am I doing wrong ?
Maybe I Found The Issue
#9972 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/12 20:12:29
Toggle field is bit 6 in spawnflags (according to func_door, when I set it)
So maybe play_sound_triggered should look like this:
// HellPart1:g[3] -> Entities:g[1] -> play_sound_triggered:e[2]
{
"classname" "play_sound_triggered"
"origin" "-2912 0 88"
"noise" "ambience/jpl/lava_rubble_loo...
"volume" "0.7"
"speed" "-1"
"targetname" "HellRubble"
"spawnflags" "32"
"impulse" "1"
}
Let's have a try
Failed
#9973 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/12 21:04:35
:(
#9974 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/12 21:39:34
no, it's bit 1 for the sound entity.
even though the label for the spawnflag bit is the same as the door, it's just text at the end of the day, so entities with identical flag names can have totally different bit values. :S
i forgot one crucial bit of info last time, so sorry about making you run in circles.
the thing i forgot to mention is that you must set the 'wait' key to any non-zero (but positive) value in order to gain access to looping functionality otherwise the entity just behaves like a single use sound player.
if your sound already loops automatically, you can just set 'wait' to 999999 so that it never restarts the sound on it's own, otherwise, just set 'wait' to the length of the sound.
if you want it to start off (not start off playing), set 'state' to '1'.
Necros
#9975 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/12 22:37:06
no, it's bit 1 for the sound entity.
even though the label for the spawnflag bit is the same as the door, it's just text at the end of the day, so entities with identical flag names can have totally different bit values. :S
OK, understood, I though it was a generic set of field with one dedicated bit for ne dedicated function.
i forgot one crucial bit of info last time, so sorry about making you run in circles.
Bah, don't worry... ;)
the thing i forgot to mention is that you must set the 'wait' key to any non-zero (but positive) value in order to gain access to looping functionality otherwise the entity just behaves like a single use sound player.
if your sound already loops automatically, you can just set 'wait' to 999999 so that it never restarts the sound on it's own, otherwise, just set 'wait' to the length of the sound.
Indeed, the sound loops automatically... So if I understood well, I have to set wait to sound lenght.... I hope wait field supports floating point values ;)
Anyway, thanks a lot for all these explanations :) It sounds like it is working fine ;)
#9976 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/12 22:53:10
I have to set wait to sound lenght
you don't have to. if the sound loops automatically, you can just set wait to a huge number and let the engine handle looping for you.
but there is that bug where if a sound starts outside your hearing range and you subsequently move into hearing range afterward, the sound will not be playing. using the 'wait' key will make it start again which can get around the problem if you sound isn't very long.
it could be either way. :)
Another Question That Occurred To Me:
#9977 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/13 00:54:04
are rotating MOVETYPE_PUSH subject to the same kind of .nextthink treatment as moving MOVETYPE_PUSH?
that is to say:
void() rotThink =
{
rotating.avelocity = '0 0 0';
};
void() thisFunctionIsRunningRightNow =
{
rotating.nextthink = time + 0.01;
rotating.think = rotThink;
rotating.avelocity = '90 0 0';
};
-assume you never get higher than 99fps
-avelocity is 90 degrees per second on X axis.
-you are getting only 10FPS
does the rotater rotate 0.9 degrees or 9 degrees before stopping?
0.9 degrees means it behaves like moving MOVETYPE_PUSH in that their nextthink is calculated retroactively after the next frame comes along.
9 degrees means it acts like non-MOVETYPE_PUSH entities and will only be updated when the next frame comes along.
looking at the source, i see they get a .blocked which i think implies they should behave just like moving MOVETYPE_PUSHers (which also means their nextthinks should be suspended while blocked).
I Need V_armor.mdl
#9978 posted by Shambler [86.25.164.171] on 2010/07/22 13:44:31
Posted by SuperDuper Quake: v_armor.mdl [88.195.178.209] on 2010/07/22 13:33:25
When i go map. This error comes:
http://i28.tinypic.com/53uz2p.jpg
Quick Google.
#9979 posted by Shambler [86.25.164.171] on 2010/07/22 15:00:08
http://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com...
Try the patches.
#9980 posted by meTch [99.61.109.162] on 2010/07/22 21:41:05
I wonder if he Fixed the thing where if you played as Jesus and threw the plagued gibs everywhere they would stay on the ground and kill all the monsters the second they spawned.
SIN
#9981 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/23 00:34:16
Lately I was playing SIN and I wondered how to catch a grip on them, like extracting a map.
Quark5.1 has a setup for Sin, but the bsp does appear like a entity fill path only.
Watching the quark editor it is a Q3 game.
The wiki tells of a Quake 2 (id Tech 2, modified).
Is there a usefull input to these files or is it, like the progs of malice a J.C.ace?
Madfox
#9982 posted by spy [178.88.28.198] on 2010/07/23 11:46:14
there is a tool "sinpak" or something to extract/watch the sin stuff
i've got it somewhere on my hdd, i try to search . or u could google search it by yourself
i cant remember exact name of that tool right now
#9983 posted by Zwiffle [184.60.27.118] on 2010/07/23 17:44:52
Unrelated to this issue, but avoid the SiN anime at all costs. It is bad.
Teleporter Sound
#9984 posted by negke [88.70.53.136] on 2010/07/23 18:02:48
Trigger_teleport emits its ambient sound from the center of the entity, right? For I just had this idea for a workaround for 'limiting' the sound in a certain direction by expanding the trigger volume into the opposite direction.
Teleporter Sound
#9985 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/23 19:47:41
Please make this defature as an option through specific field ;)
Re 9984
#9986 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/23 20:30:04
o = (self.mins + self.maxs)*0.5;
ambientsound (o, "ambience/hum1.wav",0.5 , ATTN_STATIC);
yep
Gensurf
#9987 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/23 22:43:24
I know Sin behaves bad and all. It's a real sin that shipment made turn out the game that bad to handle. But I must admit maps like "mansion" are done very impressive.
I had the pakfile converted to extracted files, but I couldn't find anything to use the *.sam files. There are Q3 compilers to make new sinpak files. But it feels as if the structure is hardly to work with.
As if I have to install all garbadge to extract Q3 files.
#9988 posted by gb [89.27.242.164] on 2010/07/24 07:03:54
The sin files aren't always the same as id ones, I know that at least the pak files are different and can't be extracted/created with normal tools... maybe ask here:
http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/...
Re: Rj's Black Zombie Model
#9989 posted by negke [88.70.53.170] on 2010/07/24 19:32:58
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images...
It can get even weirder...
In other news, fuck those random black triangles! Another totally unnecessary obstacle.
Didn't Someone Say Models Were Lit Depending On The Floor Beneath?
#9990 posted by negke [88.70.53.170] on 2010/07/24 20:43:43
Apparently it's the ceiling this time, the ledge in the shot. Works fine in other areas, though.
#9991 posted by Spirit [80.171.84.118] on 2010/07/24 21:13:32
Maybe that face is in the bounding box of the light?
Fitzquake Right?
#9992 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/25 03:19:21
or a derivative.
i believe it was established that this is a bug with the engine? something to do with metl's new light code or something.
i believe it is taking light values from outside faces (when the map isn't sealed, at least). if it's not sealed, try sealing it to see if it goes away, otherwise, you can try reshaping the brushwork in the area. :S
Indeed
#9993 posted by negke [88.70.250.125] on 2010/07/25 11:39:22
Luckily, I could fix it by simply moving the torches a few units up. Strange issue. The map was sealed by the way.
'twasn't Fitzquake
#9994 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/07/25 11:47:04
metl did mention it might be an enigne bug but i got that problem in glquakebjp too
Ok
#9995 posted by negke [88.70.250.125] on 2010/07/25 12:23:37
In my case, it was.
I also had another black torch elsewhere that seemed properly placed and all. Turned out a rogue space beneath the floor and wall brushes was responsible there. Possibly related.
Oh
#9996 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/25 19:55:42
looks like it's more than i thought. :S
come to think of it, if it happened in glquakebjp, than it's probably in glquake as well.
I Have The Same Issue...
#9997 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/07/25 20:07:12
... when monsters walk through a floor that is made of func_breakable (i.e Quoth)...
Maybe it could be solved by adding a light just on top of the func_breakable... I Ididn't tested it yet... wait and see ;)
#9998 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/25 20:18:08
that's a different problem from the one above.
light info is only taken from world geometry btw, so that won't help, unfortunately.
you could put a light on the world geometry beneath the breakable though. if it's a sky texture, bury a non-sky textured brush inside the sky texture to transfer light info. (sky texture does not transfer light info)
#9999 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/25 20:36:22
if you need to make a pitch black pit with a func_door bridge or something over it (ie: you can't put lights at the bottom of the pit) you can place a 16 unit high func_illusionary (or even a func_wall) at the bottom of the pit.
then make a spotlight below the top of the func_illusionary brush at the bottom of the pit with the following settings:
'light' '150'
'wait' '0.1'
'delay' '5'
'mangle' '0 -90 0'
'angle' '180'
'_softangle' '0.01'
this creates a spotlight that will point downwards and light up all the area that's hidden by the func_illusionary thereby transferring light info to entities over the pit without breaking the illusion.
Oops
#10000 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/25 20:37:07
not _softangle, but rather _anglesense
my bad. :P
Heh
#10001 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/07/25 23:20:59
that was post ten thousand!
nice way to mark it :P
#10002 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/26 02:34:25
i only noticed after. :P
"Luckily, I Could Fix It"
#10003 posted by negke [88.70.91.96] on 2010/07/26 10:29:52
Scratch that. So Fitzquake is the new DP now?!
@necros
#10004 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/07/26 11:04:18
Thanks for the tip: I'll try it ;)
Teleport Angle Override
#10005 posted by negke [88.70.50.99] on 2010/07/26 13:08:12
I have an ambush situation where a Shambler teleports to the location of another monster (which acts as the destination for the teleporter). The problem is the Shambler doesn't face the direction as the monster but arrives at angle 0. Can I override this with a hack? Preach?
Nice idea for a level gimmick or secret: a monster roaming through the map that the player can teleport to. It could be a Scrag, and the player would have to get it to become angry at another monster in an unreachable place to be able to get there himself.
#10006 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/26 18:59:14
i don't know if that's possible. the teleport code uses mangle to set the player angles.
the very first line for info_teleport_destination is
self.mangle = self.angles;
quake automatically converts the 'angle' key to 'angles' by just placing the value in the y part of the vector. in fact, 'angle' isn't even declared in the progs. this is only done at runtime, i believe.
i had to add a special case into my own progs for monsters teleporting to other monsters to get it to work.
just make sure the monsters spawn in angry is the best you can do. :S
Frikinhell
#10007 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.187.232] on 2010/07/26 21:35:52
Anyone: frikdos.exe isn't compatible with 64-bit. Any suggestions?
Solution...
#10008 posted by FrikaC [66.170.5.18] on 2010/07/26 22:29:25
Build a new one from source for your platform. http://www.inside3d.com/frikbot/fr...
Just delete the "plock=blah;" line in qcc.c (how'd that get in there?)
#10009 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/26 23:16:31
i've always wondered, do people who suggest it seriously believe that Build a new one from source is a viable alternative? i've seen that 'solution' thrown around a few times now and it seems absurd to me.
that said, i don't know exactly what's going on, but i use frikqcc.exe without any problems in w7 64bit.
Compiler
#10010 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/07/27 03:42:22
fteq even a smaller progs.dat bitcount and some errors just overide.
I don't know if that's on 64-bit.
http://www.fteqw.com/
Total_channels == Max_channels Workaround
#10011 posted by hackke [88.70.48.9] on 2010/07/27 12:59:38
There's a simple way to work around this issue without sacrificing the decorative value of torches and flames. Just replace some of them with dummy models and add a few extra point lights. The func_illusionary hack comes in handy here, because it doesn't require messing around with the modelindex, creates a static entity, and preserves the animation.
"classname" "func_illusionary"
"origin" "x y z"
"model" "progs/flame.mdl" // or flame2.mdl
If there's no other real light_flame around, place an additional sound hack entity for the fire ambience.
Building From Source
#10012 posted by gb [89.27.205.154] on 2010/07/29 16:08:46
I use Gentoo, so "build it from source" is in principle a convincing solution to me. If the guy gives me a makefile, I'm unlikely to complain.
Even Ubuntu comes with GCC. You could say that Linux is a car that comes with a full set of tools to repair it, and the owner is supposed to know how to use them. That's why Linux is cheap.
Windows on the other hand... I guess on Windows, users aren't supposed to know what a compiler is, so telling them to build something from source is outside the rules for that platform, basically. Windows is a car where the user is told to call the customer service when it breaks (and then wait outside in the snow for it to arrive).
Same for Mac. Mac will just drop a new car at your doorstep and charge you money for it, and users will simply pay for that, because they're pretty rich. The old Mac car gets discarded, even if just the radio was broken. Mac users don't compile stuff. Slaves back at the factory do it for them.
#10013 posted by meTch [99.68.57.170] on 2010/07/29 17:34:12
OR WE WILL BEAT DEM!
#10014 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/07/29 20:16:26
i suspected it was something like that. i don't even know what a makefile is. :P
just something to keep in mind for you code monkeys out there. :)
Tutorials.
#10015 posted by Billy. [216.121.130.40] on 2010/08/03 08:55:55
Hi.
Could somebody point me to a good tutorial that would describe curved surfaces for me? Not the ones in Q3, I mean using angled brushes to round off a corner so it wouldn't be so, 90 degrees.
I just need a little help with the geometry of it all.
Thanks.
#10016 posted by Spirit [80.171.51.112] on 2010/08/03 10:17:08
czg wrote this http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/cu...
There was a more recent one by someone else (ijed?) but I don't know where to find it.
Curves
#10017 posted by gb [89.27.247.251] on 2010/08/03 10:48:52
http://web.archive.org/web/2005030...
There is a curve tutorial by CZG, where he shows you how to make pipes and stuff on the grid... in the archive version, the images are missing though. :-/
I guess I could whip something up as well for radiant, maybe I'll do it today, it's easy...
It's hard to explain without pictures. Let's start with an inward corner, like in doorways. Imagine a 90 degree corner of a doorway. To round it off, you basically put more angles in there, for example you can create a 45 degree corner by putting a little triangle shaped brush in there.
This is all that id usually did in the original Quake maps; you'll find lots of doorways that have little wedges in them.
To round it off more than 45 degrees, you'll have to put more brushes in. The next step is putting two little wedges in, and make it so they don't overlap (pull the edges around in Radiant until both little triangles look the same size, and always stay on grid). That will create two additional surfaces in the corner and make it *very* roughly rounded.
For each additional surface in the curve, you'll have to put in an additional little brush. This is the part that is easier to explain with pictures. It will usually look OK if you have three additional surfaces in a corner/curve (this translates to three little brushes), where the middle one is at a 45 degree angle and the outer ones are at a lesser angle.
A 45 degree angle is created in the editor by going one step down, one step sideways on the grid. OK?
Lesser / sharper angles are created by going two steps down, one step sideways. Or four steps down, one step sideways. It's done like this to ensure everything stays on the grid.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Observe very closely how the angles are done in this 24-sided circle. You don't need so many sides in the beginning - doing the "three angles/brushes per corner" method will yield a 16 sided circle if you do it "all the way around", since 4 X 4 surfaces = 16. It's 16 and not 12 because you have to add the sides that aren't angled. ;-) hard to get without pictures, I know.
This 16-sided method is good enough usually, but sometimes you may want 24 sided to make something look even more smooth. More surfaces in a curve = it looks rounder, smoother.
Now for out facing corners, like the corner of a corridor, it is much the same method, only the curve goes in the other direction... the angles/brushes are on the inside of the curve in this case. The methodology is much the same.
Maybe someone has the pics from the CZG tutorial, but I guess I should put that in my radiant tutorial as well.
You can of course simply use (ex.) Radiant's functions to create cylinders. I'd strongly suggest to stay at a reasonable amount of sides, like a 16 sided cylinder, and be very sure that every corner is on the grid, snapping the thing to the grid (Ctrl-G in radiant) to make damn sure. You can then use the clipper to chop the cylinder into half-and quarter cylinders. This method works best if you set the grid to like 32, and make the cylinder from a relatively large brush like 256x256. For tighter curves, you'll need a smaller grid, or less sides in the curve.
If you look at handrails in games like Quake 4, the corners are often only using two sides. It looks crappy, but for small things in a large/detailed environment, you can get away with it. Also, curves eat performance.
A map full of curves will run slower and slower and take longer and longer to vis. The higher the number of sides in your circles, the slower it will be. Don't go overboard.
#10018 posted by gb [89.27.247.251] on 2010/08/03 10:49:26
nice, Spirit has the version with pictures. :-)
Marksurfaces
#10019 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/08/03 13:53:38
Hello all, I'm new on this forum (I am reading it for a long time, but only decided to post now).
I'm working on a Quake 1 map for quite a long time (in Quark) and I got a warning telling me that I have too many marksurfaces in the map (limit seems to be 32k). But the map compiles ok and I can run it in standard glquake.
Questions :
1. What is "marksurfaces" ? I think they are the total polygon number from the map, but I want a confirmation.
2. If the answer to question 1 is "yes", then should I try to keep it under 32k ? What will happen if I go way beyond this ?
...Because my map is not very big, I'd say it's rather small and it's not very detalied either, but I plan to add more details.
Ah, one last note - the map is NOT surrounded by some big box and it doesn't have "leaks" :)
Thanks in advance for your responses and please escuse my bad english.
#10020 posted by gb [89.27.247.251] on 2010/08/03 14:02:41
Hi RaverX. I'm not sure what marksurfaces are, I only know that you get more of them when your map becomes bigger :) Engine coders will know what they are.
When you exceed the 32 k limit, the map won't run in standard (old) Quake engines. Newer engines, like Fitzquake 0.85, Quakespasm, darkplaces, FTE, and probably DirectQ, have higher marksurfaces limits (and generally higher limits for most things). So with a modern engine, nothing will happen except a warning might be printed to the console.
How a pretty small map could exceed marksurfaces I'm not sure. It might be the editor. Quark is a little infamous among mappers. But if it compiles and runs, then fine.
Remember sending your map to people like negke for playtesting before eventually releasing. It helps.
This Thread Is A Great Resource
#10021 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/08/03 15:20:25
View 'all posts' and then do a word search whenever you've got a question - chances are it'll pop up somewhere.
Marksurfaces are produced by complex brushwork, or just lots of brushes intersecting / touching each other. Making simpler structures will reduce marksurfaces, as will just making less map.
But I wouldn't worry about it too much - most people now use a modernised engine so you should be fine.
But!
Make sure to use the compile tools from here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
And the documentation there is very good as well - it'll give you a much more concise explanation of marksurfaces and all the other terminology as well.
There are newer versions of the compilers like Willem's WVis which allows for multi-threading - handy, but not necessary if you're just starting.
Any tools you want can be found on http://www.quaddicted.com/ which also has all the maps etc.
Thanks
#10022 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/08/03 16:30:27
Thank you all for your response, they are greatly appreciated. I really didn't expect anyone to answer so fast.
ijed, I already use those tools, I'll try to read the documentation as well...
You are right, I'm using a lot of small brushes, like small "screws" to hold pillars on the ground, duplicated a lot of times, I guess that might be the problem...
One more question - when the compiler splits the polygons in the map, does it matter how many lights and shadows (lightmaps) are in the map ?
What I'm trying to say :
Let's say I have a face of a cube with a single texture applied there, that's a rectangle. It should be split in 2 triangles, right ? (best case scenario). But what if there's a light nearby casting some shadows there ? Will I still get 2 triangles or a lot more ?
I'm asking this because I alos have a lot of lights in my map (I like playing with shadows).
Archive Of CZG Curve Tutorial
#10023 posted by Rick [75.64.199.213] on 2010/08/03 16:34:11
with pictures.
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
I can make a .zip if you need.
RaverX
#10024 posted by negke [88.70.249.83] on 2010/08/03 17:21:40
Try turning the screws into a func_wall (one per room or so), this should help a little. In some cases you can also move brushes 1 unit away from adjacent ones (walls or floor) so the faces behind them don't get split multiple times. This two techniques can be used to lower marksurfaces quite a bit, but their effectiveness also depends on the situation - what helps in one area might be counterproductive in another. Walk around the map with r_showtris 1 (Fitzquake, DP) to see how the faces are split and where optimization makes most sense.
Lights have no influence on the geometry and how it's compiled.
Hi RaverX
#10025 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.207] on 2010/08/03 17:41:29
Reducing Marksurfaces can be done by making some of those small detail-brushes into func_illusionaries. You can make a group of seperate detail brushes into one func_illusionary entity. This will heavily reduce the marksurfaces count and it will also stop the player from clipping agains the brush. If they are small then you wont notice any difference whatsoever.
func_illusionaries, walls, doors, trains etc dont cast shadows though. But this is OK - if you have a large structure like a detailed tank for example, the you can make the whole thing into a func_illusionary or whatever, and then put a solid brush inside this so that you can quite see it, but it creates a shadow and also stops the player from being able to move through it.
If you want to see the marksurfaces and how the world model fits together then in Fitzquake anyway, you can use the console command "r_showtris 1". This will draw the lines of the world model (BSP). Someone said that you can reduce marksurfaces buy seperating touching brushes. This can work very well. Imagine a square face with a cuboid light fitting stuck in the middle of it.
The square face would be made up of two triangles ideally, but the touching brush means that it needs to be a lot more than two triangles, connecting points at each corner of the touching brush to the four outside corners of the square face :)
Confusing eh?
In short, my advice:
Make each of the clusters of "screws" into a func_illusionary (this is exactly what I would do), re-compile, and watch your marksurface count go down :D
Lol
#10026 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.207] on 2010/08/03 17:44:06
full of missing letters and typos.
"theN you can make the whole thing"
"canT quite see it"
Curves
#10027 posted by gb [89.27.229.107] on 2010/08/03 18:03:06
I started a radiant curve tutorial at kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpress.com, for now only pics, will fill in words in a while. Not everything will work in other editors, but the basics are the same. Radiant has very easy ways to make cylinders, circular holes, and rings with a lot of sides and perfectly snap them to the grid. I'll also do pipes, connecting pipes, circles out of pipes, and finally terrain etc.
I've stuck to 16 sided circles, maybe you want to do something about 24 sided ones, and correct all my mistakes, ijed.
Light / BSP
#10028 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/08/03 21:39:18
Are completely separate. All that the light tool does is draw the lightmap - a big texture made of shadows that gets painted over your world geometry.
Any func_ brushes aren't part of world geometry so don't affect Vis times, marksurfaces etc. although they can have other problems like flickering in and out of visibility if within different Vis leafs - usually only for big brush entities though.
They don't make shadows either, but if you have something big and intricate you can turn it into a func_wall and stick a simple rectangular world brush inside it to make a shadow.
Curve tutorial... I will add to it, but in a month or so. If I have an attack of boredom (sweet, sweet boredom) maybe I'll get back from holiday with something ready.
Marksurfaces And Vis
#10029 posted by RaverX [79.113.93.42] on 2010/08/03 22:00:18
The hint with r_showtris really helped. I turned on r_showtris and ... HOLLY SH*T ! The screen was full of lines and I notices something - I can see the entire map. First it was like WTF, then (in 2-3 seconds) it hits me : the map is not fully VISED, I compiled it with novis, because I always add stuff and I need to compile it quickly to see if my "new things" really look like I want to...
Could that be my problem ?
#10030 posted by gb [89.27.229.107] on 2010/08/03 23:32:54
As long as your map runs OK in a modern engine I don't think you *have* a problem.
It needs to be fullvised before you release it, though.
Fullvis it and load it into an engine that supports r_lockpvs. This allows you to freeze your current field of view, so to speak, and then noclip around to see how much of the map gets actually drawn. This is often quite enlightening, too.
Those lines should get less once you apply the func_illusionary or func_wall trick. In a detailed map it's normal to have a lot of polies, though.
Pro Tip:
#10031 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/08/04 01:55:06
you can also use r_showtris instead of r_lockpvs to see how much is being drawn. This can break down in polygon-dense areas, if you can't clearly see what you're looking at, though.
Metl
#10032 posted by negke [88.70.235.230] on 2010/08/04 10:33:08
About newskip. Is it normal that it doesn't remove all faces when running it once? I mean I can't find any visible instances, but when running it a second time, it says that another six faces were removed that it apparently didn't catch the first time.
RaverX
#10033 posted by negke [88.70.235.230] on 2010/08/04 10:40:07
Marksurfaces isn't influenced by VIS either. Although it's not a bad idea to at least run "vis -fast" for WIP compiles, this isn't the cause of your problem. The only two reasons I can imagine are either a leak (so QBSP didn't remove the outside or backsides of brushes), which you said there isn't, or excessive detail made of world brushes. The latter sounds odd since you mentioned the map was fairly small and plain.
You Can Find Out If The Map Correctly Compiled
#10034 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.207] on 2010/08/04 10:58:59
with no leaks by doing the following:
load the map into your engine
bring down the console and type:
"gl_clear 1" (this makes the engine draw the void outside the map each rendered frame as a grey colour, so you dont get the "hall of mirrors" type effect you would normally get when outside the map)
then
"noclip" (so you can walk through walls)
You can now move outside the map. If you can see the outside of the map's brushes then you know there is a leak.
Another way of identifying errors would be to post the entire QBSP log onto this thread, so we can look at it :)
Additionnal
#10035 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/08/04 11:06:26
.. if the compiler claims the map leaks, then it generates a .prt file. Type "pointfile" in the console, and a white doted-line will spot where the leak is, at least the first detected leak by the compiler... ;)
Enjoy !
Leaks
#10036 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/08/04 14:47:55
The map complies fine, no leaks. Sometime, when I add or remove stuff and there's a "hole" in the map it won't compile, but it's not the case this time.
I'll try tommorow the func_ilusionary trick, I think this will help in other areas too, some shadows casted on small polys look bad, so I hope that converting those brushes into func_ilusionary will help me get rid of that.
Tip
#10037 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/08/04 15:04:15
Entity brushes don't plug leaks. They can be outside the map no problem but won't stop a map leaking on their own.
Negke:
#10038 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/08/04 22:42:47
The marksurfaces are not truly removed, just moved to the end of the list.
So, during a second run it will find the same six marksurfaces, and again move them to the end of the list (but they were already there so it's not changing anything.)
#10039 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/08/04 22:44:30
... but, i can see the message is misleading, theoretically it could be smart enough to notice that those marksurfaces were already "hidden" and not re-report them.
Func_illusionary Not Good
#10040 posted by RaverX [79.113.91.118] on 2010/08/05 21:04:13
func_illusionary dind't work so good :(
Compiling the map before generated this warning:
WARNING: Marksurfaces 35716 exceed normal engine max 32767
But the map compiles ok and can be run without any problems, I get the same error in Quake engine when the map loads, but no other problems.
I take some small brushes (they are also duplicated and mirrored) and I put the brushes inside the func_illusionary.
Then I compile the map again.
This time I get two warnings in compiler :
WARNING: Models 520 exceed normal engine max 256
WARNING: Marksurfaces 33494 exceed normal engine max 32767
So, I still exceed the marksurfaces and I get a new warnig, that prooves to be fatal in engine, because when the map loads I get something like :
Excessive marksurfaces (33494, normal max=32767)
Excessive models (520, normal max=256)
Host_error : cl_parse_static: too many (256) static entities, max = 256
So, the marksurfaces dropped a little, but the func_illusionary caused a MUCH worse error...
I don't know what to do now, I'm really frustrated, my map is not very big, nor very detalied (ok, it's not plain floors, walls and ceil - I have some decors, but nothing TOO fancy)
I saw maps MUCH bigger and with a lot more details that didn't seem to exceed limits...
Any other ideas ? Please.
Send It To Someone
#10041 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/08/05 21:16:35
To take a look. Its odd that didn't work, but there's a lot of stuff to get used to with bsp.
I can't take a look because I'm going away in two days, but someone on the board should be able to help.
In fact, send it to me anyway - the email is in my profile. It should just be a case of looking at it for five minutes.
Try not to get discouraged.
Hand Over
#10042 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/08/05 21:46:37
the map.
send it on email.
RaverX
#10043 posted by roblot [216.106.106.216] on 2010/08/05 23:34:06
You say you put the small brushes INSIDE func_illusionary. Don't do this! Instead, group a bunch of these small brushes in a common area, and while all selected, turn them into func_illusionary, or func_wall, or even func_door. Any entity will do, with func_door you can make them move if you like.
Also...
#10044 posted by roblot [216.106.106.213] on 2010/08/06 00:05:11
20 brushes made into 1 func_illusionary = 1 model.
20 brushes made into 20 func_illusionary = 20 models.
func_illutionary can spread over a wider (larger) area and not disappear from view. func_doors on the other hand can disappear from view if spread all over an area.
Also, I make sure that all my entities are inside the level.
Group Brushes
#10045 posted by RaverX [79.113.91.118] on 2010/08/06 00:55:36
ijed, MadFox - you want the bsp or the map file ? Anyway, I want to work a little more on it, right now it's very raw in some areas, then I will send it or upload it here.
roblot - the problem is that I don't have 20 brushes, I have (for example) 1 brush that have applied a basic duplicator (x5), then everything is mirrored, so I end up with 20 brushes in the map. If I will put the brush AND the duplicator and the mirror inside func_illusionary - will it be ok ?
I ask this because the duplicator and mirror is also used for other things in the map (too big to make them illusionary). So I need to take out the small brusesh, put them into the func_illusionary, then create again duplicators and mirror for them (inside the illusionary).
Both Or Either
#10046 posted by ijed [190.22.84.52] on 2010/08/06 01:02:03
The bsp will give a good idea what's going wrong and the .map will allow to give a specific 'this is why'.
#10047 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/06 01:02:40
duplicator.
Can
#10048 posted by ijed [190.22.84.52] on 2010/08/06 01:02:52
just compile the source .map file of corse.
I'll Take A Look Tonight (or Possibly This Afternoon)
#10049 posted by RickyT23 [81.156.237.207] on 2010/08/06 12:21:12
If you want. Im a little confused really :)
I would like to see what is going on.....
You can just email it to me if you like:
trowbridge (dot) richard (AT) googlemail [dot] com
.map file and/or .rmf file are what I need, the BSP too if you want, but not necessary (unless you are using a custom texture wad) :)
#10050 posted by roblot [216.106.106.106] on 2010/08/06 15:27:39
By the way, Fitz and Aguirre's gl engines has a 64,000 Marksurface limit, and warnings can be ignored as they are just info for developers. If your map is small and you are hitting limits, something could be wrong.
To reduce Marksufaces according to what people say here, select the brush and the duplicator and the mirror (any number of brushes) and make them into 1 func_illusionary entity. It does not need to go into another func_illusionary brush. A func_wall entity maybe a good choice also because it is solid.
If your map gets real big with lots of these multiple brush entities you could get the error:
Too many efrags
If so, just reduce a 20 brush func_illusionary to something like 15 or 10 brushes to make the error go away.
#10051 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/08/06 15:54:49
I'll just cut some areas from the map for now, I have a lava cavern that sucks, it looks very bad...
#10052 posted by gb [89.27.212.8] on 2010/08/06 16:45:23
what's a duplicator?
#10053 posted by roblot [216.106.107.207] on 2010/08/06 18:53:57
Yea, just upload the .map and people will help alot. Maybe Quaketastic's temp folder?
duplicator:
1 brush duplicated 5x and then all mirrored = 20 brushes
#10054 posted by gb [89.27.223.243] on 2010/08/07 17:04:01
ok, but is it an editor feature or something? Pretty sure Radiant or Quest don't have a "duplicator". Of course I can do that sort of thing in Radiant as well, I was just wondering if this is a special editor function.
It might end up to be a Quark problem...
#10055 posted by roblot [216.106.107.63] on 2010/08/08 01:18:32
I think RaverX speaks another language, so instead of saying duplicate, he said duplicator. Quark might also have mapping instructions in many languages, thus making it popular around the world. I don't know though.
#10056 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/08 01:46:35
one of the things quark has over every other editor out there is that objects in a map are visible in a tree list. you can click and drag brushes and entities into folders as well to organize things (much easier to see that wc's visgroups and radiant's non-existant groups...). there's a special folder called a duplicator folder (may have changed since i last used quark for mapping which was like 10 years ago) which essentially copies everything in the folder X number of times. it also allows you to mirror the brushes and rotate them.
the closest i can think of would be if you're working with instanced geometry in a 3d editing package. you change the original and all other instances are updated to match.
...at least, that's what i remember of it. :x
#10057 posted by Mechtech [24.211.158.217] on 2010/08/11 21:55:06
Does fitzquake085 have a command to output the x,y,z position?
#10058 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/11 22:20:51
just type 'edict 1' to see the player's edict info. origin is in there and v_angle/angles is also useful.
#10059 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/11 22:21:42
just to explain, the first player is always edict #1, and subsequent players in coop and dm are always the second, third and fourth edicts.
#10060 posted by negke [88.70.92.210] on 2010/08/11 23:47:55
Or simply "viewpos"
#10061 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/12 00:13:47
far out. :)
Ubuntu & GtkRadiant.
#10062 posted by Some Dude. [216.121.130.40] on 2010/08/23 19:38:48
Would anyone know off hand why Gtkradiant wont work under Ubuntu 10.04? When I run it I get this error:
Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
(process:1680): Gdk-CRITICAL (recursed) **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
aborting...
Aborted
Any ideas?
Also can anyone suggest any alternative map editors? (Ideally one that will run under Linux.)
Cheers!
Ubuntu & GtkRadiant.
#10063 posted by Some Dude. [216.121.130.40] on 2010/08/23 19:38:49
Would anyone know off hand why Gtkradiant wont work under Ubuntu 10.04? When I run it I get this error:
Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
(process:1680): Gdk-CRITICAL (recursed) **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
aborting...
Aborted
Any ideas?
Also can anyone suggest any alternative map editors? (Ideally one that will run under Linux.)
Cheers!
Netradiant!
#10064 posted by Spirit [80.171.144.69] on 2010/08/23 23:49:27
http://dev.alientrap.org/wiki/netr...
Hmm
#10065 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/08/24 13:32:11
They forked from 1.5? Eugh
Yeah
#10066 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/08/24 16:16:17
I use NetRadiant, and it's marginally better I think than 1.5 but not as good as when SPoG worked on 1.5. Those were the days man.
Hmm
#10067 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/08/24 20:38:30
Meh, I always prefered 1.4 and refused to update tbh...
Dude
#10068 posted by negke [88.70.252.158] on 2010/08/24 23:06:48
Missing some of the GTK dependencies perhaps?
Netradiant, otherwise Quest (Yes!).
Newskip
#10069 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 00:46:07
i have newskip 1.0 from quaddicted,
when am i supposed to run it? obviously after bsp, but before vis/light, or after?
the text file doesn't say when to run it. :P
I Always Run It Last
#10070 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.206.193] on 2010/08/29 00:49:25
just to be safe :)
What Are The Rules For Waterskip?
#10071 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.206.193] on 2010/08/29 00:49:55
What does the name of the texture have to be?
?
#10072 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 00:53:42
the wad that comes with the tool has "*waterskip" in there.
Oh I Forgot To Ask
#10073 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 00:54:39
is it ok to run newskip all the time? even if you don't have any skip textures?
Yeah...
#10074 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/08/29 01:53:01
newskip will do nothing if you have no skip textures.
and, if you run it twice, the second time it won't do anything (though it will say the same thing as the first time, i.e. "removed X surfaces")
you can run it anytime after qbsp.
Cool
#10075 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/08/29 02:05:36
thanks!
#10076 posted by gb [89.27.199.115] on 2010/08/29 23:19:35
The new hmap2 doesn't seem to care if you use skip or waterskip, the results were the same when I tried it.
I did use waterskip just to play nice.
BSP Editing Help 1
#10077 posted by ranger [218.102.221.85] on 2010/08/30 19:34:23
e1m1 is named: The Slipgate Complex - If I wanted to rename it to: Tele Zone, how could I?
Maps I Made
#10078 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/08/30 20:56:57
Any particular reason you'd want to that doesn't involve stealing someone else's work?
Just recompile from source with a new message key in worldspawn. Else stop changing other people's work.
You Don't Even Need The Source...
#10079 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/08/30 21:14:44
adquedit (http://www.quaketerminus.com/tool... lets you edit entity data in bsp files. useful if you want to change trigger_changelevel values to put your own little episode together; not sure why you'd want to just rename a map but the value should be found right at the top (under the worldspawn key as said above)
Gg Func
#10080 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/08/30 21:15:27
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Snazzy Rj, Thanks Man!
#10081 posted by Ranger [203.218.33.229] on 2010/08/31 11:44:37
nonentity don't be lame - I just renaming some of ID's maps
.....here We Go.....
#10082 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/08/31 12:28:39
*Popcorn Out*
#10083 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/08/31 19:39:03
be sure to update the wikipedia page to reflect the new names...
#10084 posted by gb [89.27.213.218] on 2010/09/01 01:00:52
GPL means he can do whatever he wants with it, as long as he releases his source (if he even releases).
pretty sure romero was ok with that when he released the map sources under the GPL.
Duh
#10085 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.77] on 2010/09/01 08:53:01
He is obviously trying to edit the copyrighted .bsp files though.
So What
#10086 posted by negke [88.70.53.210] on 2010/09/01 11:24:02
Don't make a fuss about it.
Agreed.
#10087 posted by Drew [76.75.67.245] on 2010/09/01 16:47:57
anyone who makes a fuss about it is obviously a latent homosexual. just saying.
It's Scientifically Proven
#10088 posted by SleepwalkR [78.52.97.71] on 2010/09/01 17:12:13
Hmm
#10089 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/09/01 17:38:51
Yeh. You got me. I'm clearly gay as fuck.
But if the GPL applies then he has the source (ie, actually renaming id's maps) so he can recompile from source (which I'd swear down I suggested).
Otherwise he's renaming custom maps for nefarious ends...
If They're Not Even Being Redistributed..
#10090 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/09/01 18:30:27
then hell if any of it matters anyway.
Creativity
#10091 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/01 21:35:16
I would have done it,
if I could it,
but I didn't,
so I don't.
Adquedit Does All But The Endlevel Strings
#10092 posted by Ranger [203.218.86.27] on 2010/09/03 21:01:01
How can I edit the paragraph that appears on the screen when I finish the last level of an episode?
QC
#10093 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/03 21:45:45
In the Quake.Qc there is a paragraph called Client.QC
On line 155 there is a quote called: "// run some text if at the end of an episode".
If you are carefull with the quake's own way of writing (ie only a specific amount of letters on the same way as the otriginal text) you can change this txt to your own.
Carefull, take the same amount text as there is! (count!).
Then compile the file, and your own txt is there after collecting all runes.
Also
#10094 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/03 21:51:26
Use the "\n" as markpoint to end your sentence.
don't change it, just count the spaces in between with interline between words and end them with hte same mark "/n".
If you use more, or in different way, the texture just ends, where the quake txt shoould end.
Something to do with the exact byte count of the Client.qc Your new client.qc and the original have to be the same datacount.
And
#10095 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/03 22:20:43
the first txt part is added twice.
this is because in sharewareversion this txt is used and in registered version the other.
you'll have to copy them twice (with the shareware blah).
Yep
#10096 posted by ijed [190.22.54.205] on 2010/09/04 17:03:55
Those are hardcoded.
#10097 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/05 02:53:30
in doom3, you can set the key pair 'nofill' '1' and that entity will not be checked for leak checks.
is there a way to do this in quake? the light entity doesn't count, but things like path_corners (when used for func_trains, for exmample) still do.
maybe an easy way to haxor it into existing qbsp compilers?
#10098 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/09/05 07:43:20
Have you tried putting the entity inside a brush even though it's technically 'outside' the gamespace?
Start.bsp Opened With Adquedit
#10099 posted by Ranger [203.218.33.181] on 2010/09/05 08:43:06
"classname" "worldspawn"
"wad" "gfx/wads/start.wad"
"message" "Introduction"
"sounds" "3"
What does "sounds" mean?
#10100 posted by negke [88.70.54.88] on 2010/09/05 09:49:40
necros: What Zwiffle says.
Ranger: It's the CD track to play.
Quick Question
#10101 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.171] on 2010/09/05 16:12:57
How can I make a door to be "shootable" only after a button is pressed. Uhmm, let me rephrase it : You have a door. It shouldn't open, it should stay closed if you get nearby or if you shoot it. Somewhere else you have a button. After you press the button the door should open if you shoot it.
You Dialed Realtime Func Support
#10102 posted by Spirit [80.171.145.229] on 2010/09/05 16:18:07
put an invisible func something in front of it which you then make invisble with skip. make the button remove that.
#10103 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.171] on 2010/09/05 17:04:37
Thanks Spirit, I'll try, but I tought there is something easier. Oh well...
And another thing. How can I fix this warning ?
WARNING: CutNodePortals_r: New portal was clipped away near (-160 -752 1184)
#10104 posted by negke [88.70.240.0] on 2010/09/05 17:21:37
Easier solution that's actually more difficult: put a shootable trigger with a very high wait value in front of the door and (optional but recommended) make some other entity trigger it so it doesn't bleed if the player shoots it. Then killtarget it with the button.
That warning is caused by awkwardly intersecting or misaligned brushes. You can ignore it in most cases, but it wouldn't hurt to examine the brushwork around those coordinates, either.
Btw Necros
#10105 posted by negke [88.70.240.0] on 2010/09/05 17:34:43
Note that not all compilers allow that. BJP's are fine, but hmap2 reports a leak, for example.
#10106 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.171] on 2010/09/05 17:56:54
neg!ke, I don't think it's a leak. I took a look, there's nothing interesting near those coordinates, there's only some simple bars, nothing fancy.
#10107 posted by negke [88.70.246.21] on 2010/09/05 19:29:29
No, that leak note was meant for necros.
Also, what's with everybody not realizing the ! is gone... :P
Zwif
#10108 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/05 20:05:10
haha wow, i never knew about that! thanks!
Oops
#10109 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.171] on 2010/09/05 22:17:11
Sorry, I know you for your maps for a long time, I got used to neg!ke :P
End
#10110 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/05 23:39:57
I was the one who reïntroduced it neg!lke,
after my lame blame lang blah, haha.
Ambient Sounds Problem (unrelated To Previous Posts)
#10111 posted by Ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/09/06 06:13:58
I may be mistaken, but I can't hear any water or wind sounds (e1m1 for example).
I reinstalled Quake, nothing.
Set ambient_level to 1, still can't hear them. But I can hear the drip and torch sounds though from like e1m2.
#10112 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/09/06 11:45:04
It's not a problem, in e1m1 there aren't ambient sounds (water or wind). There are some buzzing sounds, but you have to be close to the "source".
As long as you can hear ambient sounds in other maps it's ok.
What Maps Have Those Amb Sounds?
#10113 posted by Ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/09/07 06:36:54
I can hear: suck1, swamp2, drip1, windfly etc, just not wind2 or water1
Those are the only 2 amb sounds I can't hear (I mean, I swear you could hear water2 when you cross the bridge in e1m1);
What maps have wind2 and water1 amb?
#10114 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/07 07:16:40
yes, dunno what 10112 was about but you can hear the water and wind sounds in e1m1.
note that the water and wind sounds are defined in the vis process, so if you've been messing with the bsps, i'd venture to say you probably wrecked that, although i can't imagine how if you were just renaming the maps.
The Whole Story
#10115 posted by Ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/09/07 08:03:38
I reinstalled Quake, nothing.
Set ambient_level to 1, still can't hear them. But I can hear the drip and torch (and even fl_hum1.wav) sounds though from like e1m2/e1m1
I didn't edit the maps yet, they are still stock Quake's.
I'm using Joequake, but I also tried with Winquake and even Shareware Quake. I did the testing with my volume max, and did "snd_show 1" to double check if those sounds were playing. When I used "soundlist" it displayed that wind2 & water1 were precached. No errors were displayed in the console. I tried replacing the sounds with other wavs files even.
#10116 posted by negke [88.70.49.62] on 2010/09/07 09:48:53
Tried a different engine then? Or a blank config? I can hear them just fine with Joequake.
#10117 posted by negke [88.70.49.62] on 2010/09/07 09:53:25
Or are you running a mod? Or have the paks/wavs been tampered with - perhaps the loop information got lost? Shouldn't be the case, though, if you reinstalled the game from a clean source.
Try Installing Quake To A Completely Different Directory
#10118 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.139.63] on 2010/09/07 15:58:01
Like "c:\games\quake\" instead of "c:\quake\".
That way you will be able to rule out the theory of mods interrupting the sfx
#10119 posted by Ranger [218.102.223.25] on 2010/09/07 15:59:27
I tried with Winquake;
I don't know about the loop information hypothesis, because wouldn't it say "blah.wav is not looped" in the console?
I'm running stock Quake (at s_khz 22). I even tried running with the SW Quake's pak0 & Quake's pak1.
AUTOEXEC
---
startdemos //demo1 demo2 demo3
cl_truelightning "1"
cl_bobbing "1"
show_stats "0"
cl_bonusflash "0"
skill "3"
ambient_fade "5"
ambient_level "1.0"
r_maxsurfs "6000"
r_maxedges "10000"
r_clearcolor "0"
r_novis "1"
r_wateralpha "0.5"
d_mipcap "0"
d_mipscale "0"
d_subdiv16 "0"
v_centermove "0.1"
v_centerspeed "400"
v_kickpitch "0.75"
v_kickroll "0.75"
v_kicktime "0.4"
showram "1"
showturtle "1"
sv_aim "1.00"
sv_idealpitchscale "1"
cl_upspeed "180"
cl_rollangle "2.5"
edgefriction "2"
scr_conspeed "2500"
scr_printspeed "16"
scr_consize "0.65"
bgmbuffer "16384"
menu_main
CONFIG
---
cl_sbar "0"
_cl_color "22.000000"
_cl_name "Ranger"
m_side "0.8"
m_forward "1"
m_yaw "0.022"
m_pitch "0.022"
freelook "1"
sensitivity "4"
lookstrafe "0.000000"
lookspring "1.000000"
cl_backspeed "140.000000"
cl_forwardspeed "140.000000"
s_mixahead "0.2"
s_volume "0.4"
bgmvolume "1"
viewsize "100"
fov "90"
joystick "0"
vid_resetonswitch "0"
vid_window_y "0"
vid_window_x "0"
block_switch "0"
vid_windowed_mode "0"
vid_fullscreen_mode "3"
_windowed_mouse "0"
vid_stretch_by_2 "1"
vid_config_y "600"
vid_config_x "800"
_vid_default_mode_win "7"
_vid_default_mode "0"
_vid_wait_override "0"
vid_nopageflip "0"
_config_modem_hangup "AT H"
_config_modem_init ""
_config_modem_clear "ATZ"
_config_modem_dialtype "T"
_config_com_modem "1"
_config_com_baud "57600"
_config_com_irq "4"
_config_com_port "0x3f8"
saved4 "0"
saved3 "0"
saved2 "0"
saved1 "0"
savedgamecfg "1"
contrast "1"
gamma ".65"
crosshaircolor "79"
crosshair "1"
This is really bugging me, I mean I never noticed those 2 sounds were not playing until 2 days ago, I was thinking "I don't remember start.bsp's skill hall being this quiet"
Other Info, Might Help Dunno
#10120 posted by Ranger [218.102.223.25] on 2010/09/07 16:01:37
I have Shrak, SoA, DoE, Aftershock installed too...
How does a mod disrupt it?
Ricky
#10121 posted by Ranger [218.102.223.25] on 2010/09/07 16:07:07
I don't really think it's that because I installed SW Quake to see if it only affected CD Quake - I'm pretty sure I couldn't hear those 2 sounds in SW Quake
also got -heapsize 256000 & -zone 65536
if that helps
#10122 posted by Spirit [80.171.83.8] on 2010/09/07 17:31:59
tried running without that weird autoexec.cfg?
Autoexec
#10123 posted by Ranger [218.102.223.25] on 2010/09/07 18:12:52
Hey, it ain't wierd - it squeezes the max outta Quake...
Anyhow, I figured out the issue: ambient_fade "5"
after making it to:
//ambient_fade "5"
Problem solved... the odd bit is that, I added that line to the autoexec to solve the amb sound issue in the first place - well it's fixed now so, ok
And The Lesson Is
#10124 posted by Spirit [80.171.83.8] on 2010/09/07 19:46:57
Reinstalling Quake is worthless if you keep your config files.
^^ That
#10125 posted by SleepwalkR [78.52.98.224] on 2010/09/07 23:02:29
what spirit said
Not Really
#10126 posted by Ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/09/08 04:08:19
The part when I tried using SW Quake - It was just SW Quake with no cfgs or anything
Quake3
#10127 posted by megaman [91.66.119.75] on 2010/09/09 15:00:23
is it possible to make a func_door (or a plat?) toggleable in quake3?
Of Interest I Guess ;)
#10128 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/09/09 21:25:40
http://robotrenegade.com/radiant/m...
Map Scale In Worldcraft
#10129 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/09 23:21:19
Hi guys, brief question: Using Worldcraft 3 atm. Is it possible to increase the space available for a map? Limited to about 8k or so units.
A further quick question, is it possible to do moving liquids? :)
Extras4
#10130 posted by ijed [190.22.116.181] on 2010/09/10 03:47:49
Has moving water volumes, search for an idgames2 mirror - should be in there somewhere.
Bigger maps have been explored - Necros built outside, but AFAIK the space can't be used to play in.
It's very time consuming to make the entire available space playable though, unless you just want a massive flat plain. I came close with one of my maps.
Unless you're making a mod going outside the limits probably isn't that useful.
Func_bobbing
#10131 posted by ijed [190.22.116.181] on 2010/09/10 03:49:18
Well, extras has water trains and a vertical only door type.
Couldn't Find An Extras Link
#10132 posted by ijed [190.22.116.181] on 2010/09/10 03:55:26
Maybe it's in here somewhere:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2...
It was made by p0x and has a load of toys to mess with, like emissions.
Pox Mod
#10133 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/10 09:17:45
knew I had the link in pholly.txt..,
http://quake.chaoticbox.com/?tab=p...
And
#10134 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/10 09:19:38
exploding barrels, stars, breakables, stairs, fountains, chaotic boxes.
#10135 posted by gb [89.27.199.172] on 2010/09/10 12:39:28
Maximum map size is a question of engine support. You can build stuff outside 4096x4096 and it'll show up in old engines, but you must keep the player away from the "line" or a massive HOM-like effect will occur.
If you require Darkplaces, FTE or something like it, then you can simply ignore the 4096x4096 restriction. However, you shouldn't go too far away from 0 0 0. You should be able to go 6000 units or so away from the center though without any noticeable side effects.
It is a pretty arbitrary restriction, really.
#10136 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/10 13:45:17
Yeah I'm not making something that massive in geometry complexity or number of areas (it's very linear), just a lot of long or high areas.
Can hopefully post up a gameplay prototype soon, will really appriciate some feedback on the difficulty settings and such :)
8192*8192*8192 Actually
#10137 posted by negke [88.70.86.153] on 2010/09/10 14:40:17
From -4096 to +4096 x/y/z
#10138 posted by gb [89.27.247.47] on 2010/09/10 15:02:55
right, although I said 6000 units out from 0 0 0 which is outside of that.
The vanilla quake limit is 4096 units outward from (0 0 0) in all directions, correct.
#10139 posted by gb [89.27.247.47] on 2010/09/10 15:07:55
plus, 8192x8192x8192 is only in relation to (0 0 0) - if you make a 6000x6000x6000 map (which technically fits inside the vanilla Quake boundaries) it can still break if it's not centered at (0 0 0).
#10140 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/10 15:17:33
Well, the map is over entity limits so requires Fitz or Darkplaces, but I'll just keep within the geometry boundaries for simplicities sake then.
A question on difficulty settings by the way, what's the general feeling on power ups? At the moment the monster count is pretty much halved for easy, and the monsters that remain are weaker, but I'm afraid it might be a bit boring. Any feelings on keeping a fight similar in monster count but chucking in a quad + mega for easy?
Do That :)
#10141 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/09/10 15:20:35
Removing enemies is ok, but more resources is better I find. Obviously, need to balance the two, but the second one tends to get ignored.
And killy stuff like quads are always fun.
#10142 posted by [194.65.24.228] on 2010/09/10 16:18:34
maps with Quad + SSG or SNG = lots of fun
#10143 posted by gb [89.27.247.47] on 2010/09/10 23:31:51
Do both. Halve the monster count *and* give extra stuff on easy. Then on Hard, remove some health and ammo and add some monsters.
Difficulty
#10144 posted by RaverX [79.113.89.86] on 2010/09/11 02:08:43
Don't be afraid that the map will be boring on easy, after all that's why it's easy - it might be boring for a skilled Quake player, but it won't be boring for a less skilled Quake player.
I always hate hard games, I played Quake since 96 and I used to be very good in 98-99 (playing pro in clans).
But even I do find sometimes that a lot of maps are actually hard even on easy ! Mappers needs to understand that they have 4 levels of difficulty.
You have nightmare - make this almost impossible to finish, so that only a very good player is able to finish it, throw there a lot of monsters, no health, etc. Make the player fight shambler with the axe, whatever it take.
Then you have hard - make this hard, but not impossible, people shouldn't run out of ammo and you shound't find yourself in a tiny run without covers fighting with vores.
Then it's normal - this should be challening, but not frustrating, it should be much easier than hard. Players should have good weapons, a decent suplly of ammo and enough health to not get into fight with low health.
And finally, you have easy. EASY - the name says it all - even a schoolgirl should be able to finish the level on easy, this is something that almost all mappers and game developers tend to forget - easy if for newbies, for people that don't even know the controls too well - you should have plenty of health there, powerfull ammo, powerups, red armor, everything.
Don't worry, you cannot make easy too easy.
#10145 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/11 02:27:00
I'd say I'm a hardcore player, and I usually find most quake maps too easy, so I built the map designing fights with skill 2 in mind. I'm going back through it to fix each area up as you chaps suggest. By the sounds of it normal will actually be the difficulty to argue about...
Should have something for testing tomorrow anyhow :)
Okay, Here She Is.
#10146 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/12 00:32:49
It requires Quoth, and a limit removing engine (I've been using Fitzquake whilst making it).
It's mostly a bare shell, but I have at least thrown some lights in and used different textures so you can tell whats a floor or a wall :) Not interested in visual feedback right now, I want to nail the gameplay before I look into that.
It's a very linear, combat focused map, but I have attempted to vary the pacing and forms of combat throughout.
I've also attempted to support difficulty modes, but I'm not sure how well so please tell me what you think. Easy gets a lot of extra armour, megas, some powerups and extra geometry for some little jumping sections. Monster count: skill 0: 137, skill 1: 184, skill 2: 245
I'm hoping to make it the start of a series, which is why it's long but you don't get that much weaponry yet.
Sorry enough gabbling...
http://www.filefront.com/17282658/...
I Think
#10147 posted by ijed [190.22.96.211] on 2010/09/12 05:29:56
You should aways play your own maps on hard, then scale back to make normal and easy. It's a rule of thumb, pretty generic, but it seems to work.
id1 has many failings, but I said I wouldn't talk about the other project.
Zealous - is this a release? I can't play for a few hours yet (fuck you Hypnos).
If it then make it a news post. If not, then good on you for wanting feedback.
Missed 'is' There
#10148 posted by ijed [190.22.96.211] on 2010/09/12 05:30:55
Oh God No It's Definately Not The Final Release :)
#10149 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/12 11:00:16
I'm looking to finalise the gameplay before trying to make it pretty and release it.
I should have just posted it up in the Screenshots/betas thread :E
#10150 posted by [81.84.215.78] on 2010/09/13 01:08:48
true... I think on hard the first four rooms are nightmare!!!
After Getting A Housemate Of Mine To Play Through It
#10151 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/13 14:29:13
I think Normal and easy do need more toning down. The lightning trap area is the same on hard as normal which is pretty evil of me :E
Also causes trouble in the room with the two little computers because if you destroy them before killing the monsters you're kind of boned... so redesigning a bit.
#10152 posted by [81.84.215.78] on 2010/09/14 20:55:17
ZealousQuakeFan try it on Hard and map is a nightmare and boring... monsters coming everywhere... need a lot of monsters remove when you have a better version and if you want me to beta test just shoot... gameplay is my speciality ;) brushwork I suck but gameplay is my best!
Doom 3
#10153 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/15 17:51:00
Can I set Doom 3 lights to "projected" or "parallel" somehow in GTKRadiant 1.5?
Is there a method to set the light center point by dragging somehow, instead of having to enter the coordinates manually? Shows up as a green dot in my radiant, but apparently can't be dragged.
I discovered that the light volume can be drag-resized, which is cool.
Also, scaling all textures by 0.5 seems to be necessary to get the right size in relation to the player, why is that, and is it the normal way to do it?
I have to use Radiant, since the Linux version doesn't have the built-in editor. Yay. I can compile etc. though without problems and also have all the materials working.
It seems to be problematic to switch Radiant from one game to another on the fly. :-/
Anyone here have some Doom 3 mapping experience? I started messing around with it a couple months ago, and decided to get deeper into it now.
#10154 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/15 17:55:59
And this is probably a stupid question, but why use caulk on surfaces that aren't drawn anyway?
I Tried It Too
#10155 posted by negke [88.70.229.191] on 2010/09/15 18:03:52
I find Gtkradiant 1.5 to be much more convenient for the actual construction, mainly because of its camera controls and window management which are superior to D3edit and Q4edit in my view. Particularly the lack of a cascade feature makes the in-built editors extremely awkward to use on smaller sceens. However, ultimately it seems there's no way around them, as Gtkradiant doesn't display all resources, has no model/gui/etc viewer and seems to lack a few other vital features as well.
#10156 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/15 18:41:29
So far it seems the actual brushwork isn't a problem, lighting is the thing that I'm having to relearn, although it's not really that different either. I was surprised it has no surface lights / flags. But OK, every light is a volume now. All right, grokked that. Would be nice if I was able to do spotlights though.
And gosh, do the testmaps look good ingame. The engine and the default materials are incredible.
I got a clean materials pakfile from the net, but it stopped working after I unpacked all of my pk4s - I had to do that because RoE wasn't loading some files for lowercase reasons (linux).
I should probably get one of those prefab collections as well.
D3
#10157 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/15 21:40:31
0.5 is the default tex size. all the textures were made double sized, like q3 before it.
as for caulk, the most straightforward uses of caulk are for brushwork behind patches (like curving walls and such) because patches don't seal the world and also to create box rooms which you can place a mapobject room inside.
most of the base maps in d3 have examples of the first reason (patches) and the hell maps are almost entirely made out of mapobjects.
#10158 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/15 22:21:44
Ah, OK. That makes sense.
Apparently DarkRadiant has the light editing functions added and also runs under Linux. I might have to try that.
I never made a Q3 map, I don't even own it. :-E
Darkradiant
#10159 posted by negke [88.70.72.121] on 2010/09/15 22:51:15
This looks very good. Cheers for mentioning it!
Will try if it can be set up for Q4, too.
Darkradiant
#10160 posted by Zwiffle [184.60.27.118] on 2010/09/15 23:21:17
Looks a good bit o' neat it does. Now I REALLY want to solve my Doom 3 problems so I can start mappins for it.
#10161 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/16 01:20:55
Too bad DR doesn't support Quake :-/
The clean materials pack is very useful, it removes all the broken materials / repairs them to a large degree. Pretty much mandatory. Doesn't work with RoE though.
Now to find out how to set up one of those sentry bots... and spawn some imps. >:-)
Doom3 speedmapping?
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
Tossing around with something Enpro-like. So much easier to make pipes in Doom3 than in Quake.
#10162 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/16 01:57:24
if you're looking for textures, lunaran made a great set called strombine (that works in d3 once you swap the material commands to d3 equivalents): http://www.lunaran.com/page.php?id...
has some nice concretes and metals.
#10163 posted by gb [89.27.211.176] on 2010/09/16 02:58:17
Thanks for the link. It looks like there's some good stuff there. I'm just familiarizing myself with the stock textures atm - there's quite a lot of them.
#10164 posted by Spirit [80.171.168.167] on 2010/09/16 09:08:34
Congrats gb, you made a room that looks like any other Doom3/Quake4 related room.
Indeed
#10165 posted by negke [88.70.56.155] on 2010/09/16 11:17:09
How dare you not make the most original architecture ever in a game engine you're working with for the first time???
#10166 posted by [194.65.24.228] on 2010/09/16 12:20:51
Luke(gb) you have the force, you are just in the wrong path
#10167 posted by gb [89.27.240.80] on 2010/09/16 17:31:12
It looks like Doom 3? Good, that was kinda my goal :-P
Negke:
#10168 posted by gb [89.27.240.80] on 2010/09/16 18:08:24
It looks like a combination of tools is the way to go with Doom 3, ie. build the basic geometry and place the basic lights and entities in GTKRadiant or DarkRadiant, and use D3edit (under wine, if necessary) and Blender etc. as needed and to fine tune stuff like spotlights, and GUIs etc., although like Quake, Doom's .map format is plain text and you should be able to use a text editor to create anything that's still missing. Learning how things like GUIs and movers work is the biggest hurdle, but there is a lot of info out there (doom3world.org, katsbits) and once you have grokked it you should be able to write the stuff you need.
I hope. :-E
Resources:
About lighting:
http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/...
http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/...
Clean Materials pack:
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/v...
(if the links are dead, I have it and can upload it)
Common prefabs (although you can probably rip stuff out of the original maps and use that as a starting point, as with handrails, consoles, movers and guis):
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/v...
Hi-res replacement textures project (insane):
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/v...
This last one is a reason to largely use the original textures, since your maps will then profit from replacement textures as time goes on.
Lots of the links at doom3world.org are dead, though.
#10169 posted by gb [89.27.240.80] on 2010/09/16 18:12:42
http://doom3-hr.com/Main_Eng.html
Hi-res texturing project site.
#10170 posted by generic [67.233.206.50] on 2010/09/16 18:48:06
You guys are going to make me re-install Doom 3, aren't you? :)
#10171 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/16 18:57:13
on prefab rails:
doom3 is remarkably weird when it comes to prefabs. some areas have full mapobject (prefab) railing, some areas have railing completely made out of patches (more common) and some are a mix and match.
i would find it more easy to make railing in 3ds max (you can just use the spline tool and don't need to fiddle with ugly patches). thankfully, doomedit has a feature to export brushwork as an obj so you just need to import the the obj brushwork into your 3d editor, make your railing and export.
#10172 posted by gb [89.27.240.80] on 2010/09/16 19:45:29
Good tip necros. The prefabs are largely a bit questionable anyway, since you can make a lot of things yourself in a matter of minutes... I guess prefabs can be useful for things like shelves, ladder/handrail combinations, typical lifts, and maybe certain GUIs. The computer/console arrangements are probably also handy to have a prefab for, and just modify that, since they look a little time consuming to get exactly right. A lot of common things already come as entities, I saw.
People have been saying that you can also start making terrain out of patches, then export that and tweak / reduce polycount in a modelling suite, then re-import as a mapobject.
#10173 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/16 20:25:54
more on prefabs,
a lot of computers and machines are prefabs and an even larger number are not. when i first started, i kept searching through all the models looking for things i'd seen and coming up empty.
in the 'objects' category of textures, you'll find textures that can be used (unsurprisingly) to make objects out of brushwork. a lot of the fancy consoles were built this way with patches and brushes.
about terrain,
i personally find it stupid to make terrain with patches if you've got access to a 3d editing suite. i have an old version of bryce (version 3) that i use as a fractal terrain generator. i export the greyscale heightmap bitmaps into 3ds max and use the 'displace' modifier on a plane that has been subdivided. this yields a terrain that can be modified for higher or lower resolution.
tbh, since i skipped the quake3 era of mapping and went straight from quake to d3, i never became attached to patches like those guys who did a lot of q3 mapping and i can't stand them at all. they are incredibly fiddly and texturing them is an absolute pain. i build everything out of models when i can. besides, building things out of models and then blocking out the area behind with caulk makes vising and portals much easier to handle because the surrounding brushwork is so simple.
#10174 posted by gb [89.27.240.80] on 2010/09/16 23:48:58
good advice, thank you.
#10175 posted by negke [88.70.57.169] on 2010/09/17 11:22:47
gb: Thanks. Do I just put the clean.pk4s in the base directory or do I have to rename/unpack them?
necros: Rails aren't the problem. But it kind of sucks that all interesting shapes (rocks, flesh, outsides) are made of meshes and can't be made inside the editor easily, like in Source games.
Movings Models.
#10176 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/17 20:10:59
Anyone know how I can make models from Quoth custom map objects move (like a body sliding along the floor or something)? I seem to recall seeing it somewhere :E
#10177 posted by gb [89.27.236.85] on 2010/09/17 20:18:02
negke: I think you should rename the clean materials pak to zzzwhatever.pk4, so it is loaded after all the normal paks (alphabetically sorted). It goes in the base folder.
I unpacked the models/ folder from one of the pakfiles because it has the mapobjects, and you'll probably want to unpack the sounds as well.
Individual files override things in pk4s.
ZQF...
#10178 posted by generic [67.233.206.50] on 2010/09/17 20:26:44
Ne_tower by Necros was Quoth-based and had a body dragging. He should be able to fill you in.
#10179 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.97.102] on 2010/09/17 20:37:31
as for the knight drag, it's actually from when preach coded in model support. previously, you couldn't assign a model to a func_ because the game would complain about not having it precached.
there was supposed to be a func_train_point made specifically for assigning models, which is what i would have used, but that entity is actually broken, because it's still coded to set the func_train_point as SOLID_BSP which is not allowed with a .mdl (or external bsp afaik), so the dragging knight is actually a func_rotate_train (which is never solid).
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Dragging Body
#10180 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/17 21:18:17
was made with a func_rotate_train.
preach added the ability to assign a model to (i think?) every entity.
unfortunately, he didn't allow for models on entities that have SOLID_BSP (ie: func_train) which is why you can't use a func_train for this.
it's been a year, so i don't really remember the specifics, but essentially, you set up a func_rotate_train + path_rotate entities exactly like you would if you were building a rotating train path, except you don't specify any rotation (but you could, if you wanted to-- the model will rotate just like it would if it was a bmodel).
once your rotating train entity and paths are set up, just set the 'model' key to the path to your custom model. finally, on your func_rotate_train, set the target field to 'null' (or anything that is not used). this is because the entity does not work unless target is set, but since we have the model directly on the train, we don't need to target anything.
you can also tie custom models (via mapobject_custom) to bmodel movers via rotating entity functionality as well. you could, for example, make a lift with torches attached to it. note that you'd need to use mapobject_custom instead of the normal torch entities because torch entities are made into static entities and static entities cannot move and they also automatically emit the fire sound which may not be good since they will be moving around.
as you know, you target a func_rotate_* entity to rotate_object entities in order for those to rotate.
you can also target any other entity in the game (including monsters!) and the rotating entity will also move them as well. for an example of this, check out sm156: http://celephais.net/board/view_th... for a map which uses this behaviour.
there are two boats that drive around with rocketeers stuck inside them with the rotate_train trick so they don't fall out as well as droles attached to a flying airplane type func_rotate_train.
i posted the map source for it in post #10 of the thread (or just get it here: http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/... ).
Note
#10181 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/17 21:19:34
that when you attach mapobject_custom entities to a func_rotating_train, you can't rotate it. this is because entities attached to the rotater this way won't change their angles when they rotate, they only change their position.
so you'll have models that just slide around.
And Triple Post
#10182 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/17 21:22:28
if i had read the responses, i would have seen purple's post and wouldn't have had to retype all that. lol. ^_^
#10183 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/17 22:05:59
Heh so it is a bit more complex than I was hoping. I was trying to avoid rotating stuff as its such a pita :p
Still, the amount of fun I've been having playing with various triggers and relay sequences, it was kind of inevitable it would come in at some point...
Thanks for the posts though will try it out.
Nice to be reminded of the exact map I saw it in too :)
Skip
#10184 posted by generic [67.233.186.205] on 2010/09/17 23:03:03
Is it possible to use some func_moving_object with skip textures applied to not-quite-all sides of it to simulate dragging a model? I recall levitating a Shambler once in one of my speedmaps using a similar technique. But, then again, my recollection isn't what it used to be :)
#10185 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/17 23:42:39
well, if you are using hipnotic or quoth, you can just use func_movewall with func_rotate_train as they are fully invisible.
but i don't see why you couldn't put skip on a normal func_train.
On SOLID_BSP And Custom Models
#10186 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/18 01:31:43
I'll admit that at the time of release I knew that using custom models on func_ type entities was tantalizingly close. However, it was actually a side effect of code that guarded against unprecached models on the first frame (where it could be prevented). The main application I had in mind was to combine it with the newly added fixed-angle sprites for alpha transparencies, to make lifts with mesh floors or similar.
I probably could have added a 'NON_SOLID' flag to the func_ entities quite quickly, but I wanted to convince myself first that there was no way to automate the process. The uncertainty remained, so the idea was left unfinished.
As a quick straw poll: What would be the preferred implimentation?
• Create new classes for non-solid entities
• Add a flag which sets such entities non-solid
• Add the flag, and set it by default in the fgd file for _point classes
• Add a flag, and create a new wrapper class which sets the flag then calls the regular code(aka throw it all at the wall and see what sticks)
• Break all existing maps by making func_ non-solid with a flag to make them solid again
I also have this idea of fiddling with the modelindex so that you could create a BSP hull model to make it solid and still have another model visible using just one entity, if I can just sort out the entity issues. That might change the whole plan...
#10187 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/18 01:46:44
well, my first instinct is that _point versions should automatically be SOLID_NOT because i was surprised when the func_train_point failed with a model. the thing is this would be an inconsistent behaviour because things like trigger_*_point MUST be SOLID_TRIGGER.
ideally, it would be better to just make a func_train_entity instead of having to abuse func_rotate_train. oh and i'd also update the hipnotic rotation code to take entity angles into account when being targetted by rotaters. (possibly with a flag to toggle that behaviour).
The _point Of It All
#10188 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/18 11:16:22
The _point versions are supposed to be exactly identical to the regular version, so much so that they even strip the classname of the _point extension. They only exist because of limitations in worldcraft which prevent creation of a point entity with the classname of a solid one. I'm pretty sure changing them now would break maps.
Negke
#10189 posted by gb [89.27.225.163] on 2010/09/18 15:30:10
I don't see why you couldn't make rocks in Doom 3 the same way you do in Quake.
When you're finished, turn the entire terrain into a func_static and turn the simple room around it into caulk.
For parts that the player can't interact with, there is some key that lets you make the func_static nonsolid which supposedly saves RAM because no clipmodel is needed (I think).
You can then export the stuff (obj) and tweak it in Blender all you want, but for rough terrain, just to get the rough outline and scale, I don't see why you wouldn't want to use triangles or patches. Just to approximate it in the editor and get a feel for it.
You asked me to share my expert doom 3 mapping knowledge (lol) so here is other random stuff I found out while mapping:
- Shaderparm7 is used to set green/red lights on the door frame models. 0 is red, 1 is green.
- I ripped the frame and door models from id maps and tweaked them to my needs. All the doors are models as far as I can see, so are the matching frames, all nicely on the grid and on the Z point. The glass inside some func_doors is a func_static hooked up to the func_door with the "bind" key, like "bind" "door1". This makes the glass follow the door's movement in a master/slave way.
- Like Necros said, two ways to make consoles. a) models (in the mapmodels/com folder I think, look at the communications map - com1 or similar); b) brushes for the straight parts, patches for curves, small brushes for the guis.
- GUIs: For the model consoles, keys gui1, gui2 and so forth point to the gui files... for handmade guis, simple patch mesh turned into a func_static with common/entitygui texture and placed roughly 1 unit in front of the physical screen, can target stuff it should activate and "gui" points to the gui file like guis/comm1/sentrybot.gui is the panel that says "Activate sentry", for example. There are a lot of those.
- Mapmodels can have different skins; for example, skmachines/skcube.lwo can have "skin" set to skins/skcubedirtred to create the red version of that thing.
- Sounds are placed in maps using the speaker entity.
- Glass is simply a material.
- Two ways to make sky: a) like in Quake, slap one of the sky textures on brushes and b) portal sky, still looking into this last one.
- Lights; brightness results from the size of the light volume, as well as the color, where white is full brightness. You can assign textures to a light source, such as "texture" "lights/xray02".
- Entities under "movable" are physics objects, these drop to floor automatically. So do monsters, but not weapons for example. You need to place the weapons and ammo in the position you want them to appear.
- Decals are put on simple patch meshes of the desired size and shape and placed roughly 1 unit above the surface.
- Textures can be resized pretty freely without looking bad, so you don't have to build gui screens or decals at a certain size. Rather click "fit" in the surface inspector.
- The scale of everything is comparable to Quake, so is step height etc.
- You can load different mapmodels by creating a func_static and choosing models/mapobjects/whatever.lwo (Radiant will pop up a file browser).
I'd be interested to exchange testmaps and knowledge, hit me up on irc maybe.
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
On SOLID_BSP And Custom Models
#10190 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/18 16:52:44
My knowledge of Quake C is zero and I'm still learning the ropes entities wise, but for the kind of stuff I'm thinking of doing a func_train_model kind of entity would be great :E
For stuff like making it rotate or whatever though I'd wouldn't know what to suggest, I don't know what the technical limitations and such are really.
Scripting In Doom 3
#10191 posted by gb [89.27.225.163] on 2010/09/18 18:08:31
A map can have a script assigned whose main() function is executed at level load. Scripts can directly address func_movers for example by their name. Some GUIs (shutters gui for example) can execute functions from the script when clicked (called via shaderparmX, usually documented in the GUI script itself).
It's a lot like QuakeC. Tutorial worth reading:
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/v...
.mdl In Map
#10192 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/18 21:38:56
Guys, quick question:
In Q3 I saw .md3 player models in maps as statues. I've tried to put a knight.mdl in a Q1 map but it doesn't appear because I basicly put in a monster_knight with the editor and then replaced that with knight.mdl in notepad. But (ofcourse) that doesn't work. So how do I tell the engine to just put in the .mdl file?
Also: what if I create a custom .mdl and want that to appear in a map? Ofcourse I'd need a similar line of code (whatever it is) and aside from that, would it then be enough to tell players to put the .mdl in id1/progs folder?
You Could Use The Func_illusionary Hack
#10193 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/18 22:11:14
i forget how that works but you could find it in the teaching old progs new tricks thread.
you can use this for models that are already used in the game.
afaik, it is impossible to use custom models unless you REPLACE a stock model with a custom one. at that point, you should make your own mod because it is unrealistic to ask a player to overwrite a stock model with a custom one and then delete when they're done playing your map.
Func_illusionary
#10194 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/18 22:26:58
Thanks. That reminds of wanting to create non-solid snow. Isn't the Func_illusionary used to make a brush non-solid? I suppose that would do the snow trick.
And ofcourse, I'd never ask anyone to overwrite anything. Ideally, you could just put the new.mdl into a pak file or in id1/progs and the engine would just always check that progs folder if the map file dictates it. But I guess it's too easy to think that way :) In Q3, you can just add all your stuff into a pak file, whether it's models, textures, sounds, or whatever.
Models
#10195 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/19 00:03:31
The difficulty is not so much that quake doesn't offer pak files and things to prevent you overwriting somebody else's models. The standard quake progs doesn't offer any way to specify a model to precache from the bsp file. So the only conceivable way of loading a custom model is by using one of the existing filenames, which would of course overwrite something.
The suggestion is not meant to be a serious on(I think), so you need a modified progs.dat in order to load ANY custom model sensibly. By that point you need your own mod directory and there is no danger of overwriting other's files. Unless you decide to use somebody else's mod which supports custom models, in which case conflicts may need to be considered.
Well....
#10196 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/19 00:16:00
Thanks for the answer. The problem is that I want to make a deathmatch level that people can download automatically from the FFA server. So a mod is out of the question. I guess that's not possible then...
Pak File Based Engine Feature
#10197 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/19 00:31:21
A thought I had after replying there...
Problem: Map releases that take advantage of a mapping-centric mod like remakequake or quoth may have other custom resources outside of the traditional bsp files, for example custom sounds, models and skyboxes. The pak file sounds like a great way to distribute all of these things without risk of dozens of file conflicts. However, the system of loading consecutive pakN.pak files means that users have to jump through renaming hoops to pop the new map at the top of the list and risk clobbering a custom map when a patch for the base mod comes around.
Proposal: add a "-pak name" switch to engines. This would place the named pak file at the top of the search path for any files, allowing overriding of all models as well as supplying the location of new files.
Players using an engine with this feature would be able to leave maps distributed as pak files with an identifiable name in the directory, and load straight from them as they wished. Older engines would not be left out, although they would have to rename the pak they wanted to use to pakN.pak.
It might sound like this adds bloat to a command line that already needs -game and +map specifiers. Correctly designed mods could eliminate this though, by ensuring that quake.rc calls autorun.cfg, a config file with a dummy implimentation in the mod's pak files. Loaded pak files could then override this with their own autorun.cfg - containing a command to load the (first) map in the pak.
(Custom map paks overriding quake.rc directly should be avoided, since that file may be updated by future patches to the mod. Supplying the autorun.cfg is basically saying "this one is ours, and that one is yours".)
Extension: The command line could accept "manifest" text files listing a collection of paks rather than a single pak. However, this might be overkill, and it certainly should be in addition to rather than instead of the single pak loading system.
Preach:
#10198 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/09/19 01:02:19
for quoth at least, fitzquake and aguirre's engines have a -quoth switch that works the same as -hipnotic and -rogue, so you can effectively load your own mod on top of quoth.
Darkplaces does even better and has the ability to specify multiple gamedirs, so mods can mod mods ad infinitum.
Thread Screw Texture
#10199 posted by RaverX [79.113.81.184] on 2010/09/19 01:35:16
I'm working on a map that will use only the original Quake textures. I want to apply a texture to a cylinder (actually it's an hexagonal prism) that will make the cylinder look like a screw. Something like in this image : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...
Any ideas what texture I might use ? (cropped, rotated, etc) - just to get that effect.
#10200 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/09/19 01:40:38
any texture with ribs -- then just rotate each face the same amount and slide them around until they line up. You might have to adjust rotation to get them to line up all the way around.
Wow
#10201 posted by RaverX [79.113.81.184] on 2010/09/19 01:45:14
Wow, that was fast :)
Thanks metlslime.
Yes, that's what I was thinking about, I need something like this : http://farm2.static.flickr.com/111...
But how to get it from standard Quake textures ?
I searched the metal textures, I didn't see anything suitables, everything is too flat or with "bubbles"
Paking It In
#10202 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/19 02:13:53
Yeah, metlslime, I had them in mind before I posted. I was trying to come up with something inbetween the effective but hardcoded -quoth switch and the overly elaborate darkplaces stuff.
#10203 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/19 07:20:53
http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/...
:D
Super Uber Mega Cool
#10204 posted by RaverX [79.113.81.184] on 2010/09/19 10:11:11
necros, that's an impressive piece of work. But I cannot do my "screws" from polys for 2 reasons :
-the screw is quite small, it's smaller than a shotgun bullet
-I have a lot of screws and I'm very near to 32k marksurfaces limit (I went beyond this limit, but I deleted some rooms and now I'm back to about 30k)
Anyway, that screenshot looks awesome, does it move ? Any chance to see the full map ? :)
Oh Shi---
#10205 posted by meTch [99.30.124.238] on 2010/09/19 13:59:27
now make a worm that's missing chunks from the threads, and wheels that are missing teeth to go with it!
Raverx
#10206 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/19 20:14:43
ah ok. i only posted that because i originally tried to make the worm gear out of textures too. but i swapped to a model because the spur gears looked funny meshing with a texture.
you could make a screw model though, that was just 6 sided (plus top and bottom, so ~20 tris?). it would make texturing the thread easier on a model skin maybe?
anyway, yeah, that worm gear is part of a new map/mod i'm working on. it's taking forever though, so no promises on release dates.
also, can i lobby for more lightmaps in quakespasm? maybe around 512 lightmaps or 1024? :D i built this whole terrain mountain as a sort of 'brush skybox' but had to remove it because i ran out of lightmaps, lol.
i think fitzquake's (and by extension, it's variants) current bumped limits could use some normalization.
for example, static entities has been increased, but ambient sounds has not, so you can add more torches than ambient sound slots which effectively acts as an artificial static entity limit.
or in this map i mentioned, it's possible to be under the faces/marksurface/vertex/clipnode limit, but run out of lightmaps.
now make a worm that's missing chunks from the threads, and wheels that are missing teeth to go with it!
maybe cause it's a lazy sunday afternooon, but i don't get it. what's good about gears with missing teeth? wouldn't they just stop working when they get to the broken part?
unless you mean like some sort of puzzle?
Overlapping Brushes
#10207 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/19 20:22:41
subject: overlapping brushes
I know you shouldn't have those, but what about water? If I want to flood a building with water, it looks bad when I cut the water around pillars etc, cause you'll see those cuts in the moving water texture...
And architecture partly covered in snow? What is the best approach when you want one brush (snow or water) to partly cover up other brushes?
#10208 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2010/09/19 20:56:04
What's wrong with overlapping brushes?
#10209 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.97.102] on 2010/09/19 21:09:05
I know you shouldn't have those
Wrong.
#10210 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/19 21:09:23
water will be cut pretty badly no matter what method you use, so i tend to just cover up areas with a single water brush.
if you are using fitzquake, make sure you use r_oldwater 0. this makes the engine use a much better looking water.
Overlapping
#10211 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/19 21:55:28
I thought you increase the chance of having Z-fighting (flickering) if one brush is contained in another brush (overlap).
Another reason I've read about is longer rendering times when you overlap brushes...
On top of this, I've seen multiple good mappers stressing NEVER to overlap brushes, including Pingu who stated in an interview to work neatly and that there's not a single overlapping brush in A2: Return To Atlantis.
I'm not pretending to know anything, but I do know what I've read. Kind of strange how people here say it's not bad to overlap brushes... Now I'm confused.
And Necros: thanks for the tip. Although that doesn't help people who play my map and use another engine ofcourse :)
BTW: are detail brushes used in Q1 (vs structural)? I'm using BSP Quake Editor right now, and there is an option to 'add detail' or 'remove detail' but after I selected and added the detail, it's not reported in the 'map info' (detail brushes: 0). I'll check in another editor as well.
I've read that if you got a lot of stuff in a room (like a bunch of candleholders, charis, tombstones, etc), it's best to turn those into detail brushes and let the main brushes that are suppoed to block Line Of Sight be structural...
#10212 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/19 22:38:26
i don't know why, but overlapping brushes will cause zfighting in newer engines like q3 and d3. in quake, qbsp will manage to remove overlapping WORLD brushes without any issues. (overlapping func_ or other visible bmodels WILL cause zfighting with other bmodels or the world).
afaik, it doesn't cause any problems once the bsp is in the engine.
i'm not sure where we are atm concerning the compiling aspect of overlapping brushes. i don't overlap because i like to work clean, but it's just personal preference.
Thanks
#10213 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/19 22:46:57
OK thanks necros. You have an alarm going off when there's a new post? You seem to be on top of things :)
Is there anyone who can comment on the Detail/Structural question pls?
No Detail Brushes In Q1...
#10214 posted by generic [67.233.206.50] on 2010/09/20 01:39:21
Change brush groups into func_walls or func_illusionaries to avoid breaking up surfaces, or float them 1 pixel off the floor/wall.
And...
#10215 posted by generic [67.233.206.50] on 2010/09/20 01:40:41
Overlapping brushes are ok, especially for weird off-angle arches and such.
Natural Looking Terrain
#10216 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/20 02:01:07
Anyone got any tips/tutorials/techniques for creating the best rocky/uneven terrain in Quake 1 bsp? :E
Multiple Buttons To Trigger A Door
#10217 posted by epsislow [85.186.178.160] on 2010/09/20 03:02:22
Can anyone tell me what kind of triggers connections i have to do in order to make 4 buttons to trigger a door ? like if all are ON then the door should open .. if 1 is OFF the door shouldnt open (logical "AND" condition) i use the Quake 3 engine (GTK Radiant). Thanks in advance :)
#10218 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/20 03:13:03
Create a Trigger_Counter (with a name of course :) )that activates at 4, and make it's target the door. Make each button target the counter, and make each button's reset time -1 so a single button can only be used once.
@ Generic
#10219 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/20 03:42:55
OK thanks that explains why setting detail doesn't work in BSP or Radiant. I guess the option is in the editors for Quake2 and higher.
So when I got a cemetery full of fancy gravestones, I make the gravestones funk_walls or func_illusionaries. The downside of this seems that the func_walls/illusionaries don't cast shadows... I've read you can built a simple solid brush in them to cast shadows.. but I wonder if I can just copy the complex/detailed architecture, duplicate it and turn it into invisible brushes that will speed things up and DO cast shadows... For instance, here's a tutorial once from a guy who used a sky brush to cast a Quake logo shadow on the ground...but I can't duplicate it:
http://bspquakeeditor.com/q1tutor/...
ZealousQuakeFan
#10220 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/09/20 13:03:06
IMO the best way to do terrain in Quake1 bsp is to use triangular prisms. I use ones with a depth of 64 units. You just lay the triangles out as a mesh, then move the corners up or down to make a nice uneven surface.
Also - ALWAYS overlap brushes in Quake1 maps. I used to think it was bad, but it turns out that its actually one way of making sure an area is sealed, for starters.
And you dont get in-game z-fighting. But if you get z-fighting in your editor, the newest brush will win. After you have compiled the map, any parts of a newer brush which were visible in your editor will be visible in the bsp. But they wont flicker.
Zfighting
#10221 posted by printz [92.80.38.18] on 2010/09/20 14:25:59
Does z-fighting actually happen (in advanced engines) into brushes that intersect each-other, without any coplanar face? Such as overlapping perpendicular walls as generated by some hollowing commands in some editors...
"Multiple Buttons To Trigger A Door"
#10222 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/20 14:39:36
Man I shouldn't post at 3 in the morning, didn't see you were referring to quake 3, so ignore me :E
#10223 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/20 14:42:50
hmm, okay. Off to give it a go :)
As I understand it then the main limitation with quake 1 BSP is that if a square face is twisted across where the polygon seam would be it just breaks? Like 3D modelling if you couldn't flip edges...?
Door Opened By Multi Buttons
#10224 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/09/20 15:15:58
I quote a recent post :
Can anyone tell me what kind of triggers connections i have to do in order to make 4 buttons to trigger a door ? like if all are ON then the door should open .. if 1 is OFF the door shouldnt open (logical "AND" condition) i use the Quake 3 engine (GTK Radiant). Thanks in advance :)
I want to do the same thing in Quake 1, but a little different. The door should open at a combination of opened and closed buttons - some sort of cippher :)
Can that be done ?
Let's say you have 4 buttons - all closed. You push one - it remains open until you push it again - same for all. The door should open only if button 1 is opened, button 2 is closed, 3 closed, 4 opened (an example).
It Can
#10225 posted by ijed [190.22.115.172] on 2010/09/20 15:55:12
But without new code it's a bit fiddly to set up.
Basically, you have a hidden tunnel somewhere outside the map which has four doors in it, a shootable button and a nail shooter.
The player never goes into the tunnel - you're just using it to set up a logic gate.
The four doors are controlled by your four buttons, and they're all 'toggle' so that the buttons can turn them to on or off states.
The button inside the tunnel is shootable (health 1) and is behind all the doors.
The spike shooter is at the opposite end, and just shoots forever.
The idea is that if the doors are in the right places then they'll allow a nail to go from the spike shooter into the shootable button, which triggers your event.
Problem is, there's no real way to show when a button is on/off - which is a must for the game play not to be confusing and frustrating.
Err
#10226 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/09/20 18:48:59
Also - ALWAYS overlap brushes in Quake1 maps.
ignore this
#10227 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/09/20 20:10:53
Problem is, there's no real way to show when a button is on/off - which is a must for the game play not to be confusing and frustrating.
How about creating a little "indicator light" above the button; a func_door with a fullbright texture, that appears/disappears from inside another brush to indicate state. You can build a nice frame/socket around it so it looks like some kind of light fixture or computer terminal.
Re: Multiple Buttons To Trigger A Door
#10228 posted by epsislow [78.96.112.187] on 2010/09/20 21:36:46
Ok seems silly but i just found the solution for my problem :D seems silly but it works :
for only 2 buttons to trigger the Door i did this:
2 func_button each of them triggers a shooter_plasma which shots to a door(1). that door(1) opens and behind it there is another door(2) that opens my Door(3) .. that way i can have my Door(2) opened when both doors (1 AND 2) are opened
(some images for better understanding http://img411.imageshack.us/img411... http://img688.imageshack.us/img688... )
is there an easier way ?
Hmm
#10229 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/09/20 22:27:37
Could you not just make the buttons only trigger once (wait value of -1 iirc) and a trigger_counter with a count value of 2?
Func_door Indicactors
#10230 posted by ijed [190.22.44.171] on 2010/09/20 22:58:24
That'll do nicely.
Re: Hmmm
#10231 posted by epsislow [78.96.112.187] on 2010/09/21 03:53:06
in gtk radiant 1.5 for quake 3 engine i tried trigger_counter but it doesn't work aand if i put wait the value -1 it will do exactly what the manaul sais : "wait : number of seconds button stays pressed (default 1, -1 = return immediately)."
Rotating Entities...
#10232 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/21 20:09:37
So I'm dabbling with the dark arts and trying to make some rotating stuff, and I've got a nice door opening and closing but it's insanely jittery, as though the axis of rotation is bouncing up and down... Any idea what I've done wrong? :E
#10233 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 20:16:43
sounds like one of two things:
you did not target an info_rotate with your rotate_object
or
your compiler does not support rotating entities (very unlikely at it would have to be a compiler made before the hipnotic mission pack came out).
so make sure you add in an info_rotate that should be placed somewhere in the center of your rotating brushes.
next, add a 'targetname' to it.
now, for all the rotate_objects applicable, add a 'target' that points to that info_rotate.
#10234 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/21 20:50:05
hrrmph. At the moment I have a func_rotate_door targeting a rotate_object. The object is rotating around the rotate_door. I can't find an info_rotate in my entities list :/
#10235 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/21 21:34:27
Duh, I think I've worked it out. The rotate_object has to target back at the rotate door. Duuuh...
#10236 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 21:34:54
you will need to create an entry for info_rotate if you don't have it.
rotate_objects don't rotate around info_rotates.
info_rotates are used explicitly in the bsp process to define the origin of the rotater, otherwise the rotater's origin is simply '0 0 0'.
try this: make a rotating door right on the '0 0 0' origin of the world and it will work perfectly without an info_rotate.
it has to do with quake's angle accuracy (or lack, thereof). as you know, the farther from the center of a rotation you are, the bigger the gap between one degree to the next.
quake has a pretty low resolution when it comes to angles, so once a bmodel is far away from the origin, rotating it makes it 'snap' to the next angle.
targetting object_rotate to an info_rotate tells qbsp to move the bmodel onto the origin with the info_rotate as the center.
#10237 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 21:36:07
doh, cross-posted.
i guess that can work too. you're just replacing info_rotate with the func_rotate_door. the only hard coded thing in qbsp is object_rotate -> target. i don't think it cares what entity you target.
#10238 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/21 21:50:27
Well...it seems to work okay anyhow :E
Another question however, train rotates. I've got it set up so an object moves between two points like a normal train, but -1 stops don't seem to work and it never rotates, it just moves. Any ideas...?
If you want an idea for what I'm trying to do, I want to make a draw bridge that drops down in stages (ie has multiple triggers, each one moving it x degrees down), rather than just going from 90 degrees to flat in one motion. ta for help btw this stuff is pretty confusing :p
#10239 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 22:02:06
have you ticked the 'ANGLES' spawnflag on the path_rotates?
there is a 'bug' where a rotating train will not rotate if the next position is at the exact same spot.
if you have multiple path_rotates on the exact same spot, you will need to move the next one at least 1 unit away.
it's ok if it zig zags back and forth between only two spots, as long as two consecutive paths are not overlapping.
this is because if the origin doesn't change, the QC code just skips over the movement and considers it 'at the next spot' without bothering to check if it should rotate or not.
Append
#10240 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 22:02:57
first paragraph is a separate issue from the last 3 paragraphs. sorry for confusion.
#10241 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/21 22:17:16
I was just about to post that it seemed to be that they were on top of each other... irritating limitation :( If I have them a single unit apart it fires the move but then instantly flicks back to the previous node. Seems to require a minimum of eight units between each.
Guess I'll have to just try and model it so it doesn't looks weird...
#10242 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/21 22:25:53
Seems to require a minimum of eight units between each.
no, something else is causing that.
a single unit is enough to fix the bug i mentioned. you might have some settings wrong on the path_rotates.
Megalodon
#10243 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/21 22:48:33
#10219 Quad Shadow
I have no tutorial for the Squad Shadow, but here is amap that shows the effect.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Qshad...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/Qshad...
#10244 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/22 01:57:29
Well, I can't find what setting it might be that's making it not like the proximity, but the hinge is on the other side of the area the player stands as it falls so it looks okay and works fine, ta for yer help :)
Will hopefully have some kind of playable prototype soonish. Trying to make something different from the last one...slower and more complex...But designing decent puzzles makes my thinker hurt :E
Quake Teleporting Effects
#10245 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/09/22 06:32:25
5/8 of the time, when a monster teleports in there's no tele effect.
Can this be fixed by editing the entities on the maps?
Nope
#10246 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/09/22 16:40:26
If it's not happening then either you've got 00's of teleports happening at the same time or you're running a mod - Quoth has an option for this.
It's Because Of The Particle Limit, I Think
#10247 posted by negke [88.70.61.230] on 2010/09/22 17:02:39
Doesn't take 00's of teleports. Sometimes two or three at the same time are enough. I might be mistaken, but some engines allow increasing the number of particles, so you could try running the game with -particles 200000 (or some equally high number).
Quake Map DM Only Spawnflags For Single Player Only Entities?
#10248 posted by Rick [75.65.159.26] on 2010/09/22 17:55:08
I'm working on a total overhaul of an old Quake map I made. It was originally a DM map that I added single player to. There are lots of triggers, monster_jumps, teleports etc. that are irrelevant in DeathMatch. Should these be flagged as deathmatch only? Like a trigger that fires a teleport that beams in a monster. The monster isn't there in DM, do I need to flag the trigger and teleport also?
#10249 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/22 19:18:21
but some engines allow increasing the number of particles, so you could try running the game with -particles
the stock glquake engine allows this :)
Forgot About That
#10250 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/09/22 20:08:52
Because of RMQ :)
Rick - only if you want it to be incredibly clean and fast. Which you probably do for DM, but the saving will be pretty small.
OK, Correct Me If I'm Wrong Here, But....
#10251 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/09/23 01:29:49
There are lots of triggers, monster_jumps, teleports etc. that are irrelevant in DeathMatch. Should these be flagged as deathmatch only?
You need to flag these as only in Easy, Normal & Hard, and leave the flag for "Deathmatch Only" as blank. Rather than the other way round. This way those items will only appear in singleplayer, and wont appear in deathmatch.
Tip: You can place func_walls which only appear in either singleplayer, or only in deathmatch. This way you can have slightly different layouts for either game-modes. The map still needs to be sealed without the func_walls, they are only to be used within the sealed map, but you can have them passing through walls in some situaltions.
e2m1 does this, try loading the map, then type "gl_clear 1", then noclip outside of the map and look down on it. If you keep bobbing in and out of the map, you will notice that some of the walls dissappear and then reappear as you keep crossing the edge of the map (solid entities don't appear when you are outside of the map).
#10252 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/23 01:38:59
note that the flags are !skill as in, not in easy, not in normal, etc.
so rick was initially correct that he'd need to flag those entities as not in deathmatch.
that said, i have to wonder just how much performance you're going to get out of that especially considering modern machines.
@ MadFox
#10253 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/23 04:36:43
... Thanks but your zip is 'corrupt' and is 0 Kb :)
DM Flags
#10254 posted by Rick [75.65.159.26] on 2010/09/23 17:31:26
I'll probably leave most of them alone, I was only concerned because I was getting a move_type push error in DM and I thought it was possibly caused by some trigger that didn't need to be there, I later found a zero brush trigger (due to a quirk/bug in gtkRadiant) that seems to have been the actual problem.
I've been using Radiant for a couple of weeks now, and I really like it. I was doing a compile on my mapping machine this morning and I fired up Worldcraft on another computer and was kind of annoyed because I couldn't remember how to do anything at first. Also, it seemed to run a little sluggish compared to Radiant, and its on a 3GHz Core2Duo while Radiant is on an old Athlon XP 2200.
#10255 posted by negke [88.70.239.153] on 2010/09/23 20:04:35
Sounds more like a func_ without a brush. To be safe, load the map in Bengt Jardrup's enhanced Glquake in developer mode - if there are rogue entities, it will show a console warning.
Big Monsters Won't Teleport
#10256 posted by Rick [75.65.159.26] on 2010/09/23 21:10:41
Sometime ago I found some weirdness in Quake. I could push entities, such as ammo and medkits, through solid walls using doors. Well, now I've found another. I'm trying to lower monsters on a door through a trigger_teleport. It works fine for the smaller ones (knight, hellknight, scrag), but the bigger ones (ogre, fiend, vore) don't work. When they hit the trigger they immediately flip from 0 to 270 degrees, the teleport particle effect fires, then the monster dies. It plays the damage sounds like they're getting crushed. Weird.
I'm using Fitzquake 0.85, but it also happens in GLQuake (the one modified by Bengt Jardrup)
I guess I'll try pushing them through sideways.
Megalodon
#10257 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/23 21:21:44
sorry, I update it.
^v^
#10258 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/23 23:13:23
that's odd, but why not just delay trigger the teleporter instead of lowering it through a normal teleporter? would avoid having to use a door entirely.
Got It Working Finally...
#10259 posted by Rick [75.65.159.26] on 2010/09/24 00:05:14
The idea was to have monsters flying out of a teleporter one after another, multiple monsters using the same teleport destination.
I tried pushing them through (well, sliding through on top of a sideways moving door) but I got the same result (again, only with the larger monsters). Interesting discovery was that scrags wouldn't ride the slide walk and the next monster in line wouldn't push the scrag. When the door eventually moved out from under that monster, it fell to the floor. That monster happened to be an Ogre and by pure luck I happened to have a copy of the trigger_teleport down on the floor, and lo and behold Mr. Ogre ported. So that was the solution to the problem.
With the teleporter on the floor, I just lined the monsters up on top of the door in the order I wanted them to port in and everything works. The monsters begin bunching up against the wall as the door slides out of their holding room and as the door moves out from under them they begin dropping into the teleporter, one by one.
You can control the rate they port in by changing the speed of the door. They will however telefrag each other, the assumption is they will be immediately moving after the player and get out of the way of the next monster. I put a trigger_monsterjump at the teleport destination, just to help them along :)
The only problem would be with scrags, since they won't fall. If I decide to keep them I think I could just add a little pusher bar to the door and arrange them their own trigger_teleport.
Pretty nifty little construction I think.
#10260 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/24 10:41:57
One of the reasons I'm really enjoying using Quoth is that it is very easy to recreate Doom style monster zergs. Because it can easily spawn monsters active in a far off box, they will automatically run toward the player. Put a teleporter on the wall facing where the player would be, and doors or forcefields between the ranks of monsters that block their progress. If you make the teleporter the height of the wall, flying enemies should also go through.
Quoth also allows you to flag teleporters as preventing telefragging, so they might bounce around on the teleporter trigger for a while but they won't just gib each other :)
Have You Tried The Func_hoardspawn?
#10261 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/09/24 12:46:11
Thats a great entity for "teleporting" a bunch of enemies into your map :)
#10262 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/09/24 14:44:00
I think the (now pretty dodgy looking) fgd I have doesn't include the hordespawn. It has a 'groupspawn' I think, but I tried it and didn't do anything.
Not particularly fussed though really. And seeing the ranks of enemies lined up is kind of fun :)
Anyone Got A Copy Of A Good .fgd
#10263 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/09/24 15:08:46
for Quoth 2.1? I found preach's one here:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
But it doesn't contain func_hordespawn.
But It Doesn't Contain Func_hordespawn.
#10264 posted by spy [178.88.2.174] on 2010/09/24 21:44:54
why do you need a func_hordespawn???
just leave it alone......
@ MadFox
#10265 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/24 22:47:17
Thanks. Yes, that's a way to do it. Perhaps I misunderstood the BSP tutorial, but I thought the idea was to use the sky texture on the brush that is supposed to cast the shadow.
But this is a cool effect nevertheless. I'll keep it in mind.
Func_hordespawn
#10266 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/25 00:50:01
is less useful in quoth2 as preach broke the code that makes monsters wake up (the trigger_awake spawnflag is equally broken).
so when you use them, the first monster spawns but subsequent ones won't until the first monster is awakened by sight.
this is why the hknights that spawn in the end battle of ne_tower spawn on a little pad outside.
they originally were supposed to spawn inside the tower that the walkway connects to and run out chasing after the player. the idea would be that you'd never see where they came from, as if they were just charging out of the tower instead of teleporting in.
To Be Fair,
#10267 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/25 00:50:52
i don't blame preach for either accidentally or intentionally breaking the monster wakeup code as the implementation in quoth was very very bad.
Megalodon:
#10268 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/09/25 02:00:15
in e1m5, i think there's a "Q" made out of solid brushes, inside a sky brush. The sky doesn't block light, but it does prevent you from seeing the Q shape in the air.
Func_hordespawn
#10269 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/25 03:01:56
The func_hordespawn doesn't appear in the fgd because it's been "rebranded". Because it's a point trigger, not a brush, the official name for it now is the info_groupspawn. The func_hordespawn name still works for legacy maps.
And yeah, I broke the awake monster code, so sorry about that again!
Quoth Sauce?
#10270 posted by jt_ [68.42.226.192] on 2010/09/25 06:01:38
Any chance of a release of the quoth sources?
:D
Hehe
#10271 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/25 06:03:22
i remember arguing over that with kell.
his reasoning was that infos are point entities and func_s are brush models.
my reasoning was that funcs accomplish a function (ie: do something) where infos are merely for positions and such (player starts and teledests and all that).
:P
Where Is Kell?
#10272 posted by generic [67.233.206.50] on 2010/09/25 14:00:55
I miss him.
Jpl
#10273 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/25 17:52:06
There 's a copy of the quoth.qc on my harddrive.
I'm not sure if it is what you search,
only that I agreed to not share it on third parties.
It's from 2005, when quoth was released.
#10274 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/25 22:09:38
madfox is talking about http://qexpo2005.quakedev.com/boot... which is the Lost Chapters source code. it contains (iirc) the drole (pre-nerf), flying polyp, night gaunt, voreling and the vermis as well as some other sundry code such as spawning.
i would recommend not basing a mod off that source as my coding was extremely shoddy in those days. it still is, in some ways... -_-
it's really rather embarrassing, especially when we've got some professionals running around here.
MadFox
#10275 posted by JPL [79.140.208.123] on 2010/09/25 23:42:59
I'm sorry but I never asked about Quoth sources... I guess you are not addressing this post to the correct guy (who's name is jt_).. I guess you misread :P
Anyway, thanks a lot for the support to my "incomplete clone" ;)
Madfox
#10276 posted by jt_ [68.42.226.192] on 2010/09/26 01:10:46
That's too bad.
Lost
#10277 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/09/26 02:53:15
my specs..,
#10278 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/27 03:49:57
is there any q1sp with kingpin textures? including speedmaps.
taking a break and decided to try kingpin out for fun. turns out there's a huge amount of textures (and a lot of trim!). very cool and fun.
So Many Dude!
#10279 posted by Drew [74.14.183.34] on 2010/09/27 04:27:51
I did a SM with those once. 105, I think.
most of Than's early speedmaps used them, and I think he used them most creatively/ interestingly.
#10280 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/27 06:33:54
i liked yours. than's we're nice too, but they didn't feel very 'urban'. i don't think he was going for that either.
Kingpin
#10281 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/09/27 15:33:19
Urban maps on Quake 1 are hard to do, they would look bad. Quake 1 is made for indoor environments.
Hmm
#10282 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/09/27 18:36:45
There was one ages ago. Either by Killjoy or Kickin Ken. I think. Someone beginning with K certainly. Had the black and white check floor texture in a lot of it.
Someone may remember what is was better than I.
And yeh, awesome texture set.
#10283 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/27 19:19:42
i think maybe urban was the wrong word. urban/industrial (or just plain industrial with bricks). if you mixed in another texture set, could do something wild like that city of lost children movie.
i wonder if it's possible to get kingping, jackboot and deadmeat to work together...
Yeah
#10284 posted by spy [178.88.25.37] on 2010/09/27 19:26:25
that was sleepwalker's map rtz, to name a few
Screenshots
#10285 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.23.255] on 2010/09/27 21:08:45
http://mpqarchive.pauked.com/index...
It really is a nice texture set.
Thanks
#10286 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/27 21:45:57
i couldn't find it
Hmm
#10287 posted by nonentity [188.223.82.21] on 2010/09/27 22:31:42
No. That wasn't the one I was thinking of. I shall attempt to track it down.
I'd actually forgotten about RTZ, good map. I think the author name is wrong on MPQ tho. We all know Sleep doesn't contribute anything.
Tiddles Uses Industrial Textures
#10288 posted by megalodon [85.146.84.169] on 2010/09/28 04:32:09
Tiddles uses industrial textures in all his recent deathmatch maps.
http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/vie...
#10289 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/09/28 09:58:37
And the maps look very nice... some of then are rotating in NL server Ax4all
Ownership
#10290 posted by negke [88.70.229.246] on 2010/09/28 12:55:38
How does it work - e.g. if a Vore is edict 100 (last entity in the list), does his missle become edict 101 then? And if he shoots another before the first one has exploded, will it be 102?
#10291 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/09/28 18:45:33
sounds about right.
and each voreball with have owner 100.
Caveat
#10292 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/09/28 19:43:07
For a given entity slow to be used, it not only has to be free, but it has to have been free for more than 2 seconds. This is to reduce the risk that dangling references to entities which have been removed can cause bugs*. So if the missile in slot 101 was removed 0.5 seconds ago, the next missile will skip that slot and be spawned in 102 even though 101 was free.
*An example of the kind of bug this could resolve is where a monster has made an enemy of an entity which gets removed just after it dies.
The function ai_run checks if an entity has <=0 health(and is therefore dead), and if so resets the monster's enemy. If entity slots could be reused immediately, a newly created entity could replace the old one with a positive health value.
The result would be that the monster starts attacking this new entity with no provocation. This relies on monsters calling ai_run or similar at least once in two seconds - and it's not a bad assumption although it may not be 100% watertight...
More Fun With Q1 BSP :E
#10293 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/01 20:11:47
I've been playing with BSP to try and make some pretty stuff, and on trying to make some nice curved pipes I got this error on compile:
WARNING: CutNodePortals_r: New portal was clipped away near (-121 9 436)
Results in the vertices of each section not aligning. What am I doing wrong? :(
#10294 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/01 21:02:48
i don't know if those two things are related.
i've seen that warning on many maps i've made and always ignored it.
vertices not aligning is more of a rounding error. what editor are you using?
#10295 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/01 21:14:02
Worldcraft 3.3
#10296 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/01 21:28:13
I took some screenshots of it in WC and then in game :E
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828...
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841...
#10297 posted by negke [88.70.58.203] on 2010/10/01 22:41:24
Rotated prims are prone to misaligning after compiling. It's best to turn each side of the non-angular parts of the pipe into individual brushes so everything stays coplanar.
Rebuilt It As You Suggested...
#10298 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/01 23:08:41
Worked like a treat, thanks :)
#10299 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/02 20:30:20
are there any programs out there that can read a q1 .mdl file and then output the frame macros so i can just copy/paste it into my code?
getting really tired doing that by hand.
bonus if it sets up the frame function macros too. :P
Multiple Trigger With Random Reset Duration
#10300 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/02 21:35:26
Anyone got any suggestions for making a repeating trigger somewhat random in reset time?
Was thinking at the moment of a trigger via Nail trap with some platforms moving back and forward blocking it...
Thats Your Answer
#10301 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/03 02:58:20
have some func_trains blocking the trap
Tele Effect
#10302 posted by ranger [218.102.217.83] on 2010/10/03 10:26:52
about my earlier post about tele particle effects not appearing,
does Joequake have that -particle 5000, or similar feature?
#10303 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/04 02:10:58
i think even winquake has it, so unless it was specifically removed, it should be there.
Optimising VIS Etc
#10304 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/05 14:54:20
Another newbie question :p
Is there any performance benefit to making certain objects func_walls or func_illusionary. Or do you just have to eat the huge VIS compile time? :(
Yes
#10305 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/05 15:15:00
Massive benefit.
Detail stuff that doesn't define your vis areas (leafs) can and probably should be a func_ unless you hit the entity limit, although given the fact that most engines worth using have this limit raised you should be fine.
This sort of thing is difficult to explain without pictures.
Massive map != massive vis time
Bad vis blocking == massive vis time
Make sure to put in dogleg corridors, doughnut sections, remember that vis ignores vertical space, and to change fiddly detail to func.
There's loads of other tricks as well, but you'll have to google them all and pick it up through trial and error I'm afraid.
I think the longest (full) compile time I've had wasn't more than 6 hours.
#10306 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/05 15:17:15
"vis ignores vertical space"
How does that work? :E
As In
#10307 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.97.102] on 2010/10/05 15:30:25
vis doesn't care whether your area is 64 or 1024 units tall(?)
#10308 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/05 19:00:40
vis ignores vertical space
i'm gonna have to post a wut? here too. ne'er heard that before.
Yeah.... What?
#10309 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/05 20:48:33
I thought vis treated all three dimensions the same.
Am I About To Be Corrected?
#10310 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/05 23:28:20
This is difficult to explain without a 3D diagram :P
Let's say there's a room that joins to a vertical tunnel, which 1024 units down has another room at 90 degrees - even though the rooms might not be visible to each other in game vis still treats them as if they are.
Another example - you've got a circular tube, hollow in the middle, without doors but it doesn't reach all the way to the roof (or sky) - everything outside it will be drawn the same, as long as it's not backfacing.
This was something from Q2, so maybe doesn't apply to Quake.
BSP Textures
#10311 posted by ranger [203.218.88.52] on 2010/10/06 11:43:52
What tool do I need to replace a BSP's textures?
I tried Wally and TexMex
Texmex Will Do It
#10312 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/06 18:43:21
try again :P
#10313 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/06 18:53:23
Invisible moving walls...
Possible? As far as I can tell movewalls need a visible object to move around, and noclip texture causes errors on compile.
In Theory
#10314 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/06 18:55:00
But I've never gotten it to work.
If you have a noclip brush inside a load of normal brushes (ie. they're on the outside of the func_) then the noclip will still push the player.
#10315 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.106] on 2010/10/06 18:59:40
I've managed to get it sort of working via extended movewalls :)
I don't need it to do too much, it's not actually pushing the player but monsters :E
#10316 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/06 19:51:34
skip would work.
movewalls don't need a visible object.
clip only works if it's bounded by visible brushes (physics test box is determined by the outer extents of all visible brushes.)
Call A Texture "skip", Apply It To The Func_
#10317 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/06 20:19:36
And download newskip.exe from a link provided by someone who knows where a copy is. Probably here:
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/ne...
Then run it after compiling your map, i.e.
"newskip mapname"
in a command prompt :S
Texmex?
#10318 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/10/07 02:37:06
You mean Texmex can replace textures into a BSP?
Because I checked and it could only generate WADs with the new textures
#10319 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/07 04:29:10
adquedit can replace bsp textures too, iirc.
it's really old though and has a very strange user interface.
Alright
#10320 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/10/07 08:15:07
ok, so how do I do it?
In the file menu - TexMex can't export/save .BSPs
When I simply open a BSP with it and replace a texture then click save from the file menu, the opened BSP remains unchanged and TexMex creates a WAD with the modified level's textures
Well Shit
#10321 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/07 19:30:23
just tried again to do it and i stand corrected. was sure i'd used it before for that :S
just tried adquedit and that works - basically it looks like you have to first find the textures you want to add in, and export them from wherever they are as .mip files (texmex can do this) then load the map you want to edit in adquedit, and choose 'replace mip', which lets you import a new .mip file
someone needs to remake adquedit :)
#10322 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/07 21:17:26
someone needs to remake adquedit :)
yeah... i haven't touched it since it malfunctioned and deleted my whole quake directory. It was halfway through my quake2 directory when i hard-rebooted to stop the devastation.
FrikaC's Fimg has some of the capabilities. I haven't used it much, though.
I actually wrote some command-line "lmp2pcx" and "pcx2lmp" programs a few years ago (right after the adquedit disaster), perhaps i should release them. I also made spr2pcx, but when I got to trying to make a pcx2spr, i realized you actually need some extra metadata to generate the spr (i.e. sprite flags, frame groups, etc.) and sort of ran out of steam at that point.
#10323 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/07 21:29:03
i wish i understood how to read files that weren't just plain text. i've wanted to do a sprite program since there are still things in fimg that aren't great.
for example, it's very difficult and lengthy to align sprite center points across multiple frames when the frame dimensions change. you basically have to wing it and do it by hand.
Any Alternatives?
#10324 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/10/08 07:28:11
If Texmex can't replace a BSP's textures, what should I use? Fimg?
As for adquedit,
replacing the .MIP files = replacing the BSP's textures?
Yeah
#10325 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/08 10:21:16
each .mip is one Quake texture. A .wad file comprises of several .mip files. A .mip contains an image of a texture, and it contains smaller simplified versions of the same texture, to save on memory when you are far away from a texture. So a 64x64 .mip contains a 32x32, a 16x16 and an 8x8 version of the same texture :)
You will see this effect if you work with Wally or TexMex (I think) and you just focus in on one texture.
Those Smaller Versions
#10326 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/08 15:14:51
Are called mipmaps.
NVM
#10327 posted by ranger [203.218.135.49] on 2010/10/08 20:23:11
thanks anyways guys - I've finally got it working
#10328 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/08 21:37:25
"SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (-3232 -624 -208), twall2_5"
I broke it :(
Well
#10329 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/08 21:44:40
Which editor are you using?
Also:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
Very useful.
Do a "check map for problems" in WC3.3.
Try and find any faces with daft texture dimensions.
Thanks :)
#10330 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/08 21:58:50
Doesn't come up with a brush problem in check for problems. Guess I'll just poke the textures as you said.
It's odd though. The section of map in question I made in a seperate file and copy/pasted over. Only broke when trying to compile after sewing it together. Was a lot of brushes though so I guess it just broke something :(
Zoom In On It
#10331 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/08 22:08:16
and look for mis-aligned vertexes.
Ah, Found The Blighter, Cheers :)
#10332 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/08 22:08:47
For some reason a random face at the back of a func_train was 0.25 scale...
So...
#10333 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/09 01:19:37
...Fitzquake does have an entities limit :)
Have to cut my map in half :E
Or...
#10334 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/09 02:10:21
raise max_edicts to a higher value.
#10335 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/09 02:33:23
Can I do that without changing source code? :E
It's A Cvar
#10336 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/09 02:44:15
The Clipping Tool And The Vertex Manipulation Tool
#10337 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/09 03:03:15
are invaluable in WC3.3, but the textures can often become fucked up as a result. The best bet is to highlight the brush, then go into texture mode, then send the textures from all brushes "to world" (see texture panel) or "to face". These give different results, depending on the angle of the face. "To World" is good if everything is on grid, just perhaps shifted slightly in 1 direction. ~Use "to face" if the face is at a weird angle or if the face just looks fucked up. :D
When I Say "all Brushes"
#10338 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/09 03:04:42
I mean "all selected brushes"
Also
#10339 posted by ijed [190.22.73.244] on 2010/10/09 03:06:18
'Perpendicular to Face' is a common error from clipping, but the find errors thing will apply the same fix as 'apply world coords' and save you some time on a big map.
#10340 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/09 03:12:45
"It's A Cvar"
So it is...ahem, thanks :)
Fao Ranger:
#10341 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/09 18:05:40
just found this tool which should make changing textures in a bsp with texmex possible:
http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Very Weird Problem
#10342 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.149] on 2010/10/12 00:46:41
I have a very strange problem. I have a tunnel somewhere in my map, everything is ok. I changed that tunnel a little (to make him more "curvy") and suddenly I have an error when I compile the map - the compiler say that it detected a leak on the map : I followed the red line and ... the line goes right THROUGH one of my tunnel walls ! WTF ???
I cand start the map (partially compiled - it has no lights) and I go where the problem is and what I see ? It's a solid wall but I can walk right though it and I fall from the map.
It's really frustrating, can anyone give a clue of what might be wrong here ? I don'r have func_illusionary or something like that, everything is solid...
Corrupt Brush
#10343 posted by ijed [190.22.123.125] on 2010/10/12 01:06:40
The brush with the line going through it is corrupt for some reason - delete it and make a new one to replace it. Most likely it's broke because it's concave and not convex, so bear that in mind.
It could also be the surrounding terrain that's breaking it, if you've got a lot of brushes intersecting each other off-grid, in which case make that not happen with vertex editing. In other words, make the places where the brush lines cross each other on-grid.
Probably An Illegal Brush
#10344 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/12 01:07:36
Have you been moving vertexes? Make sure that all of the brushes are still convex 3d shapes. You might have to delete an illegal brush and then replace it.
Assuming
#10345 posted by ijed [190.22.123.125] on 2010/10/12 01:08:01
That those brushes are forming the hull0 or the boundary between the inside of your level and the void.
#10346 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.149] on 2010/10/12 01:52:06
Thanks, I deleted those brushes and made them again (and I also played a little with some points), but I still have leaks, it's driving me crazy, I surrounded the entire map with a big box and I recompiled - I walked around the map where the leak is reported now, but I can't see a leak. It's very, very, VERY annoying, imagine that I have a map that it's working and now it's not working because I changed some walls and the leak it's reported in completly other area :(
I did another thing : I took a copy of the map that is working and I compiled it - everything ok. Then I just added the new tunnel, I didn't delete ANYTHING, just I added the new tunnel over the old tunnel and BAM ! leak - that's f*king impossible :( I hate this aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
Post A Copy Of The .map
#10347 posted by ijed [190.22.123.125] on 2010/10/12 02:13:05
And I'll take a look.
Yeah
#10348 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/12 02:31:43
Have you been using the WorldCraft carve tool by any chance?
Quark
#10349 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.149] on 2010/10/12 02:37:57
I use Quark, here's a screenshot :
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820...
The selected brushed are the only thing that I added (nothing is deleted, for test). The brushes are X mirrored, that's all.
It's beyond my comprehension how ADDING new brushed can make a leak in the map, it's simply impossible, but it happens...
Without the new brushes the map is compiling perfectly. I add some brushes and I have leaks...
Can't Tell Much
#10350 posted by ijed [190.22.123.125] on 2010/10/12 02:57:50
Since I'm not a Quark user, but I suspect its what I said before - the brushes crossing each other at a point that's off-grid, effectively making an off-grid point thats giving you your leak. Maybe.
Something To Note:
#10351 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/12 02:58:15
is it a leak in hull0, hull1, or hull2? Sometimes hull0 will be healed but one of the other hulls will not because of a compiler error. If this is the case you might be able to plaster over it with a clip brush.
#10352 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/12 02:58:39
healed = sealed
Use Worldcraft
#10353 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.222.218] on 2010/10/12 03:09:45
If you can. 'Better :)
Google "quakeadapter"
#10354 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.149] on 2010/10/12 03:19:23
ijed, I think you are right, it has to be something off-grid, I think somewhere along a line, it cannot be seen in the map.
I deleted the brushed one by one and I found a brush with problems, I created it again and it's ok, now I have to delete the old brushes from the tunnel, I also delete them one by one, two of them cannot be deleted because the leak appears again, I have to search a little bit, maybe I will find the problem
Thanks everyone for the help, I really appreciate it.
That Argh Feeling While Mapping
#10355 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/10/12 03:30:07
I oftenly came to the disturbing error of leaks in my map on places that formerly compiled right.
I understand the annoying frustration it gives because mostly the map was right and the compiler gives an unsportive answer.
It took me a lot of maps before I got loos of the boxform while compiling, and always this was caused by the leak error.
Now I know there is no sport in it, it's just so precious adding poly's and making sure that all that's outside the hull must be placed excact on grid.
First I thought forcing on grid on 1 size grid would help, but this works only in boxes and makes the surface looks sloppy.
I think it is just the fault of thinking that the outside of the poly is on grid, while the middle of the poly counts and has to be integer.
The best solution is stop with the leaking map and begin with the one that was good.
If something goes wrong with brushes later on, forcing on grid can help, or adding a sealing brush to the leak pointed ones.
#10356 posted by RaverX [79.113.95.149] on 2010/10/12 03:37:26
It works !!!
MadFox, you're right, I make a lot of "snapshots" of my map (I backup often and I keep old maps). Now I just added the walls one by one in the new map, then deleted the old walls one by one - it didn't worked first, then I decided to resize the old walls (moving them inside the old walls) - it worked. Then I tried to delete them again - it still worked, strange, but in the end it's ok.
Now I can go to sleep happy (it's 4:36 AM here) and tommorow I have to be at work at 8:00 AM and I have a very busy day, but who cares ... my map is ok again :)
Ijed
#10357 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.111.13] on 2010/10/12 07:23:54
It seems surprising to me that a brush intersection that creates an off-grid point would leak the map. Since when does bsp care about the grid? bsp files contain float coordinates, so it should not be a problem.
#10358 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/12 07:36:30
it has to do with hull expansion. if a brush intersection causes a problem in hull0, when the collision hulls are created, that minor problem is sometimes magnified such that it basically just gives up on the area, creating those 'holes' where you just fall, seemingly, right out of the map.
aguirre's bsp is pretty good at fixing problems, but some still slip by. other compilers are even touchier.
#10359 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.113] on 2010/10/12 07:45:48
Do NOT use the Digger. It is the QuArK equivalent of carving. Do not use it. You will summon everything that sucks about mapping.
RaverX... And All...
#10360 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/10/12 08:24:26
Well, QuArK is a fantastic straight forward editor, very easy to handle... but it suffers of a fucking bad behavior regarding its floating point coordinates capabilities: this makes sometimes the brushes to be off-grid.
The only way to avoid this off-grid corrdinates to be very careful when you move your faces / vertex, and even when positioning the textures on faces.
If you want to correct any leaks or "hole in maps" you have to read this first (The aguirR'es Mapping Holy Bible) http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too... that will give some very good procedure to solve 99% of your leakage problems.
However, for the remaining 1%, you can still open the .map file generated by QuArK after QBSP process, and look for the floating coordinates: that will give you an indication where are the corrupted brushes, and you'll be able to either replace it, or force it to grid with the editor.
In anyway it is long, it is painful, but it is worth doing it :)
Digger
#10361 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/10/12 08:57:44
Spirit, it'a too late for "don't use digger" (for my current map ) - I have tons of diggers there.
But let's say that in the future I will stay away from digger - how can I replace that ? How can I make holes in a brush without using diggers ?
RaverX
#10362 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/10/12 09:52:10
How can I make holes in a brush without using diggers ?
Easy: you have to make it manually.
Example of a tunnel:
- Bad: you can use two "cubes", inserts a "digger cube" in a "solid cube"...
- Good: you can make it manually with 4 cubes, without digger, just making the hole a real hole with brushes
Dunno if it is clear :P
#10363 posted by Spirit [80.171.27.113] on 2010/10/12 09:56:14
For clean mapping you place each brush by hand. A cube room consists of 6 brushes.
Real Digger
#10364 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/10/12 11:50:59
JPG, it's very clear, that's how I do the rooms, tunnels and everything. But I was talking about "real diggers" : imagine that you have a pillar and you want to puch a lot of holes into it.
It's very easy to make a "long" cube, then dig a pyramid in it and multiply that digger.
How do you do that without diggers ? (I know it can be done, but it's hell)
Sorry
#10365 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/10/12 11:58:44
Sorry - JPL (not JPG) :)
Something like this : http://img841.imageshack.us/img841...
Imagine that in 3D with a lot more holes (and not only on a column, but with more rows)
I Would Make It 1 Brush At A Time
#10366 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/12 12:04:39
Or make one "section" as a brush, then copy and paste it. This way you have absolute control over what you make. The computer cant screw anything up for you.
I Dunno If It's Helpful
#10367 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/12 12:30:50
but your pillar sounds kind of like something I've been fiddling with:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833...
making the whole thing out of chunks that fit to the grid
Make Stuff
#10368 posted by ijed [190.22.123.125] on 2010/10/12 12:49:04
A brush at a time is always better. The automatic carving tools just aren't very good. If they were then mapping would be semi-automated, since knowing where to cut stuff needs a good understanding of good build quality that the editor itself doesn't have.
Not that vertex editing and clipping tools aren't good. Like Ricky says, just don't trust the machine to do anything remotely clever.
Use Ctrl+B
#10369 posted by meTch [99.60.18.233] on 2010/10/12 15:39:15
But dont use it too much it turns everything to shit when you do.
#10370 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/12 18:40:01
just don't trust the machine to do anything remotely clever.
oh god, THIS.
carving a square hole into a square brush, you'd think it could at least split the resulting polygons in a symmetrical way.
2/3 point clipping is pretty much a replacement for carving, honestly, because the only times you end up being able to use carving is to flat out remove bits of a brush.
Who's Got
#10371 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/13 14:05:05
The WC Adapter texture conversion utility working on windows 7?
I got it working ok on Vista 'run as administrator' but the same doesn't work on 7, it just throws the most enlightening error message ever 'no log exists'.
I could convert the textures elsewhere and pass them over but its a pain in the balls and bad practice.
Icky Fleshy Textures
#10372 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/16 17:32:08
Can anyone recommend a wad with some nice flesh textures in it?
Ogro
#10373 posted by ijed [190.22.117.181] on 2010/10/16 18:20:48
#10374 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/16 20:06:11
cheers, looks like a fun set :)
#10375 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/16 20:45:11
zerstorer also, and of course doom :)
Yeah
#10376 posted by ijed [190.22.117.181] on 2010/10/16 21:34:05
I tried a few times to make something out of the organic room tex' but couldn't put anything together that worked. I mean the ones that have the door included.
#10377 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/17 03:22:05
i'm not a fan of ogro textures because they are way too dark. you basically miss out on cool shadowing because the textures are nearly black to begin with.
the textures are very cool, but just don't allow lighting to look good on them.
DP Recorded Demo Does Not Play Well On FitzQuake
#10378 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/10/17 10:17:55
Spirit recorded a demo using DP of my latest map last week, but it does not play at all on FitzQuake..
I really would like to avoid DP install on lmy computer, so is there any converting tool/method/whatever that would allow to play the demo on FitzQuake ?
Thanks a lot in advance...
Still No.
#10379 posted by Spirit [80.171.85.181] on 2010/10/17 12:08:25
#10380 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/17 12:17:42
Just make a second quake directory and put darkplaces in that. Not like Quake is particularly big these days :P
"DP Install", Give Me A Break
#10381 posted by negke [88.70.60.132] on 2010/10/17 12:31:45
All you need is the exe, just like most other engine ports.
#10382 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/17 12:40:31
Doesn't it share config files though?
#10383 posted by negke [88.70.249.136] on 2010/10/17 12:50:15
Yes, but DP-specific cvars are ignored/removed by the others.
#10384 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/10/18 10:47:06
ZealousQuakeFan my Quake directory is 7 gb :p of course in a 500 gb disc is very few...
Cd Play
#10385 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/10/19 02:42:44
I disabled the startup demos and added "cd play 11" to my autoexec.cfg but the track doesn't play.
When I tried any other track, they work.
I typed in "cd info" to see what was happening, and it said that the track is paused
Don't Be So Shy With Information
#10386 posted by Spirit [80.171.152.41] on 2010/10/19 11:35:00
What engine?
Do you actually have a track 11?
Does it work if you load it while a map is loaded?
CD or files?
Overlapping Brushes...again
#10387 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.19.231.96] on 2010/10/19 22:11:42
So I understand the general wisdom is never do it, however I would like to know if there are any particularly instances of it that can be okay or must be avoided and such... the BSP I'm trying to put together atm is doing my head in :E
Overlapping Brushes...
#10388 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/10/19 22:26:55
it's not inherently bad.
Example: you want to make a cross shape. You can do this with only two brushes, keep everything lined up to the grid. no problems. The only potential weakness to this example is you won't have control over which brush will determine the texturing on the intersection -- so the wood grain may end up going vertical or horizontal on that spot. (in actuality i think qbsp always uses the brush face of the later brushes in the map file, when two brushfaces are coplanar and overlapping like that.)
Main thing to avoid is things being off-grid or sloppy on the part of the brush that is inside other brushes. You should still keep things clean and on-grid even if they are buried.
You Can Overlap Brushes
#10389 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.211.115] on 2010/10/19 23:22:42
It's fine. I do it loads! id software did it loads. It's a good way of saving brushes.
#10390 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/20 00:09:45
what metl said. if you have two brushes intersecting and their faces are sloped, you have to remember that the intersection will create vertices, and if those vertices (which are generated at bsp time) are not on the grid, they will be snapped to the grid and this is usually what causes all those weird problems like falling through the world or just plain bsp failure.
More Cd
#10391 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/10/20 04:18:48
What engine?
-
JoeQuake
Do you actually have a track 11?
-
Quake sees track 11 as track 10/the last track;
try "cd play 2" in the console - it plays the Q theme
Does it work if you load it while a map is loaded?
-
Yeah the song plays if I'm ingame (both menu & loaded level), but I have to type in "cd play 11"
CD or files?
-
CD
Really?
#10392 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.119.119] on 2010/10/20 12:12:20
BSP snaps vertices to the grid, e.g. uses integer coordinates? That's ludicrous - why does it do that?
Lol - I'm No Coder
#10393 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/20 12:36:21
But is it because Quake .bsp doesn't support float?
It Does
#10394 posted by ijed [190.22.4.229] on 2010/10/20 12:42:54
But the hull system doesn't, which is where it all goes to pot.
So
#10395 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.119.119] on 2010/10/21 07:24:25
bsp.exe does work with float coordinates, but rounds them to the nearest integer? And what do you mean by "the hull system doesn't"? Could you explain that a little more? Thanks!
Texture Application Trouble
#10396 posted by iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/21 07:45:27
long story short i used the quake converter for worldcraft 3.3 , and was wondering why is it that when i use the texture application for a paticular face of a brush, or when i click the 3D window in general, it doesnt select anything at all? im sorry if this question was asked/answered before but it seems to be so obscure of a problem in terms of google. :(
any help is appreciated guys :D
Sleep
#10397 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/21 08:05:14
i think i might have been wrong in my post.
on reflection, perhaps bsp is not snapping vertices, but hull expansion just has a very hard time dealing with the off-grid vertices.
Iluvquake
#10398 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/21 10:54:07
Question:
Whent he error has occurred (you can select brushes) does the mouse cursor turn into a hand shape when you move it over the 2D frames?
If this is the case then all I can suggest is re-booting the computer, re-starting the editor sometimes works, try a different driver version for your graphics.
Its a known bug :( It used to happen to about 1 in every 10 times I opened the editor.
Texture Application Bug
#10399 posted by iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/21 16:08:42
no. whats weird is i can select brushes from the non 3D brushes, but it will refuse to ever select a brush or face of a brush with any tool in the 3D view window making it near impossible to do some things feasibly. i really wish i knew how to fix this bug. i wanted to get back into mapping so bad and actually finish a map but this is a pretty showstopping glitch.
Ave You Tried Messing With The
#10400 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/21 16:21:17
"filter textures" setting in the options? This essentially enables/disables hardware acceleration. Did I already say to try a different driver version for your graphics?
Texture Application Bug
#10401 posted by iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/21 20:37:18
I tried selecting brushes/faces of a brush in the 3D window with the setting obth checked and unchecked. I really didn't want to start messing with my hardware drivers though so I guess I'll just have to take the hint that mapping isn't for me. Thanks for the help though. :)
#10402 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.182.198] on 2010/10/21 21:10:40
<quote>obth</quote>
WTF?!?!
What kind of graphics card do you have?
Necros
#10403 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.141] on 2010/10/21 21:24:49
Aren't hull coordinates short integers? That would explain that. I remember reading something about it, but may be wrong.
#10404 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/21 21:32:26
<quote>obth</quote>
i'm guessing both? ;)
I really didn't want to start messing with my hardware drivers though so I guess I'll just have to take the hint that mapping isn't for me. Thanks for the help though. :)
that's pretty rash. why not try a different editor?
Sleep
#10405 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/21 22:25:24
i have no idea. everything is from observations i've made and from what i recall reading from other, more code minded posters.
i've just found that when you have a bunch of sloping areas intersecting, you're tossing the dice as to whether it will be fine or not. sometimes you can have the most obscene brushwork and have it compile perfectly and sometimes the simplest junction, perhaps even just two faces, will explode.
this is where, i think, the whole 'don't overlap brushes' thing comes from.
Yeah
#10406 posted by ijed [190.22.56.147] on 2010/10/22 00:54:47
The same - it just tends to muck stuff up, but I haven't built a compiler so don't know for sure.
Where's AguirRe?
#10407 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/22 02:38:05
what ever happened to aguirre's q2 work? he was doing an engine i think?
Texture Application Bug
#10408 posted by iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/22 05:13:22
rj/#10404
i really wouldn't even know what would be the next best editor or how to get it setup :( i thought hammer might but im not even sure.
Yeah
#10409 posted by ijed [190.22.56.147] on 2010/10/22 05:54:48
Haven't spoken to him in a long time. Last was to give notice of Willem's multi thread version of 'the' compilers.
Iluvquake
#10410 posted by ijed [190.22.56.147] on 2010/10/22 05:58:00
It sounds like you've got hardware troubles - don't give up. Everyone on the board has suffered them at one time or another.
Ijed
#10411 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/22 08:51:10
well there isnt really any way for me to get any dif hardware, and id rather not muck around with installing dif drivers for my video card :/ i could go with a dif editor like hammer if i knew how to set it up for quake :( some people said quark but they say itd be really hard to learn coming from only experience with hammer/worldcraft. they say its too different to learn once youve gotten to used to one or the other :(
You Can Drop
#10412 posted by RickyT23 [86.142.195.34] on 2010/10/22 10:17:02
"Hammer.exe" straight into your "Worldcraft" folder, and run it like that. Work for me :)
QERadiant is meant to be a very good editor for windows. I have never tried it, but people keep telling me it's as good or better than Worldcraft.
I dont know which version is the best to use for Quake1. Anyone? Link please?
QERadiant
#10413 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.141] on 2010/10/22 10:32:59
From all the editors I tried, this had the steepest learning curve, but once mastered, it felt the most natural. I was a LOT faster using Radiant than other editors, esp. WC, where you have to constantly change modes. I also gradually stopped using the vertex manipulation tool in favor of clipping brushes into shape, which is much faster and precise IMHO.
There's Also
#10414 posted by ijed [190.22.56.147] on 2010/10/22 12:44:19
BSP editor, though I've never given it a try.
The modes in WC don't bother me tbh since there's the hotkeys...
Radiant
#10415 posted by gb [89.27.231.213] on 2010/10/22 17:25:36
GTKRadiant:
http://qeradiant.com/cgi-bin/trac....
NetRadiant:
http://dev.alientrap.org/wiki/netr...
Shameless Plug:
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
#10416 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/22 17:35:30
i could go with a dif editor like hammer if i knew how to set it up for quake :( some people said quark but they say itd be really hard to learn coming from only experience with hammer/worldcraft. they say its too different to learn once youve gotten to used to one or the other :(
yeah i wouldn't go with quark anyway; i'd stick with either the WC or radiant series. hammer could be worth a try if it's as simple to set up as alluded above but failing that, WC1.6 still works - i personally swear by it :)
Wc1.6
#10417 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/22 19:40:55
its funny you mention it. most of the download links to it are dead and i've been having a hard time trying to find a copy of wc 1.6a :P
It's On Quake Terminus
#10418 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/22 20:09:39
useful site. just tried the download on here and it works: http://www.quaketerminus.com/tools...
Crap...
#10419 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/22 23:48:45
i have vista... wc 1.6a is not compatible for this OS :( and a virtual box wouldnt exactly be practical for mapping :(
Hm
#10420 posted by rj [86.0.165.149] on 2010/10/22 23:53:26
is that the program itself or just the installer?
I Use
#10421 posted by ijed [190.22.127.161] on 2010/10/23 01:16:36
WC 3.3 with Vista no problem. I also had the dodgy 3D window issues until I found a patch - it was a .dll file that had to be dropped into the WC folder and then disable the texture filtering option...
Too tired to find the link just now but if you search in this thread it should be here somewhere.
I Tried...
#10422 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/24 01:36:41
the patch. the dll file ur talking about, atioglxx.dll but it crashes worldcraft 3.3 on vista for me as soon as i open up a map or a new map window.... so i guess that fix doesnt work :(
Bah
#10423 posted by ijed [190.22.15.126] on 2010/10/24 15:05:58
Sorry, can't help then... I'm on Vista and it runs fine, it was just the 3d window problem.
Stupid question - drivers up to date?
I Believe
#10424 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/24 22:10:09
i believe my drivers for my ATI video card are up to date, evne tho the card itself isnt the greatest but yeah. i even tried using hammer , and dragging the hammer 3.5 exe into the folder and running that. even it had the same issue.. :(
#10425 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/10/25 17:48:04
I tried lots of editors and the easyest for me was Quark :\ but few people like this editor in here...
Missing D3DRM.DLL Might Be The Problem
#10426 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2010/10/26 13:42:40
Microsoft took it out of Vista and Windows7. I know because I had the same problem. I found a copy of this file somewhere and put it in the Worldcraft folder and the problem went away. It might work for you. The version of the .dll I have is dated &#8206;Monday, &#8206;July &#8206;14, &#8206;1997, &#8207;&#8206;11:00:00 AM.
That said, I recommend trying gtkRadiant. It only took me a day of fooling around to get used to it.
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
All These Problems
#10427 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/26 15:15:16
Would go away with an open source version of WC.
Once I've got modelling tasks out of the way I'll probably give BSP editor a proper try.
BspEditor
#10428 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2010/10/26 16:20:16
Gets my vote and having used it for so long, I find it difficult to understand what it is about it that stops more people using it (Quake1SP)?
BspEditor
#10429 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2010/10/26 17:58:38
No Undo function brakes it for me. Otherwise I found it very good.
#10430 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/26 19:02:36
No Undo function O_O
for me, it's not so much that anything stops me from using bsp editor, but that i have sikkpin's qe3 which i already like.
but yeah, if i was changing now, the lack of an undo would probably make me not consider it too. :P
No Undo?
#10431 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/26 19:07:33
Can you use the mouse or is it arrow keys only?
Ahem.
No undo isn't that bad, but its such a basic feature that if it's not there then there's most likely a load of other stuff that I'd want and isn't there either.
Lame...
#10432 posted by Iluvquake [68.205.184.111] on 2010/10/26 19:50:54
not even dropping that d3d DLL file fixed the problem :( quake hates me right now
BspEditor
#10433 posted by Mike Woodham [86.135.150.9] on 2010/10/26 20:36:37
Not sure if you are looking for multiple levels of undo but it certainly has CTRL+Z, and it has Save For Undo.
Without wishing to sound pompous (but it will do so never mind) I have never really found a need for undo except where I have moved several hundred brushes and then changed my mind (this is typicaly when handling large areas of terrain). If I think I am going into dodgy territory with something, I generally save a new version.
Have a look at http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/doc/
Ijed
#10434 posted by Mike Woodham [86.135.150.9] on 2010/10/26 20:47:18
Yes, mouse driven. It is also very configurable all round e.g. for keyboard shortcuts.
For example: with mouse in right hand - select a brush's face in the 3D window with a left-click, select a texture in the texture window with a left-click, then with the left hand ALT + F to apply that texture to the face.
Then: left-click and hold + LSHIFT to stretch the texture or maybe CTRL+SHIFT and left mouse-click to rotate the texture. Perfect for aligning textures to angled trims.
#10435 posted by Ankh [88.199.103.6] on 2010/10/26 20:48:36
I'm not that good at making architecture so I often end up going back with what I have just changed. One level undo isn't enough then. I have learned how to use bspeditor some time ago and made few rooms with it. At the moment I'm using qe3 and hammer.
The point is people have made beautiful maps with all kinds of editors.
@Iluvquake - did you try to enable/disable the "Filter Textures" option in 3D View configuration tab in WC/Hammer?
Mike
#10436 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/26 20:58:14
took a quick look at the link... the face extruding looks interesting. i've never seen that in a quake editor before.
also, Save For Undo sounds like 3ds max's hold/fetch command where you can save the file in the ram and then 'fetch'/load it later.
Yeah
#10437 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/26 21:43:25
That sounds ok. Face extruding sounds like an odd feature to have in a brush based editor since it would seemingly promote convex (illegal) brushes.
Something to look at since I doubt that's the case.
Extruding From A Face
#10438 posted by Mike Woodham [86.135.150.9] on 2010/10/26 23:01:34
Basically adds (extrudes) a new brush to the selected face, so nothing illegal. If you check out the link above, it explains it in pictures far better than I could in words. It works, so building fancy shapes is a doddle.
Ok,
#10439 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/26 23:20:01
Finally got to skim it - seems good, there's a lot of useful features in there after all.
And
#10440 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/26 23:21:49
Mdls in the 3d window - nice.
Just
#10441 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/27 00:15:12
Having a look. Not used to this amount of automated stuff - when it was introduced to 3D packages I avoided using it.
Not that its bad, most shapes in Quake are simple enough, until you get to the detailing - rooms, stairs etc.
Huh
#10442 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/10/27 00:37:36
It even allows you to configure the font.
Not going to, but that's one step beyond in terms of genuine user-friendliness and not windows user-friendliness.
BspEditor - Automated Stuff
#10443 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2010/10/27 12:01:20
Nowadays, I hardly ever use it. In fact the only time I can remember is when I want to do a quick check on something I am building and quickly drop a large 'room' around the map: create room, compile (I have created a large number of differing batch files to call from the editor), review in Quake, and then back to the map with a CTRL+Z to remove the 'room' I created earlier.
I doubt that I use more than 75% of the editor's capability and regularly discover new things, especially shortcuts.
Gtkradiant Problem
#10444 posted by Vondur [85.141.221.58] on 2010/10/29 07:13:09
just installed radiant on win7 and got 2d and 3d windows showing nothing like this:
http://vondur.net/images/wotrad.jp...
any idea if it's fixable? (got it ok on other machine with win7)
Yeah
#10445 posted by negke [88.70.49.16] on 2010/10/29 09:32:07
Disable the desktop theme (Aero) in the compatibility settings for gtkradiant.exe.
Thanks Negike
#10446 posted by Vondur [195.218.191.171] on 2010/10/29 10:34:03
:)
Np
#10447 posted by negke [88.70.49.16] on 2010/10/29 10:48:50
but please... there is no i.
Oi Sorry, Mister Negke
#10448 posted by Vondur [195.218.191.171] on 2010/10/29 14:16:13
:>
#10449 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/10/29 19:27:21
should take out the e's too, so it's just unvocalized tougue mashing. ^_^
Cthulhu Fhtaghn?
#10450 posted by ijed [190.22.110.152] on 2010/10/30 01:40:27
Nieigikiei?
#10451 posted by meTch [99.33.197.226] on 2010/10/30 02:28:19
Hah
#10452 posted by ijed [190.22.91.171] on 2010/10/30 06:27:03
LOL Moment
#10453 posted by Mike Woodham [86.135.150.9] on 2010/10/30 19:35:50
So, I'm just doing a bit of tweaking and decide to build an extra corridor. I do a fast Qbsp and see there's a leak. I stop the compile and load the .pts file into the editor. Sure enough, there is my yellow line going straight to the area I have just built.
Follow the line, careful now, it's moving around some complex geometry. loose sight of it for a moment but then pick it up again right where it goes through a solid wall. Oh no!
Carefully review what I have just built, can't see anything wrong. But there is the line, straight through a solid wall. Oh buggeration!
Follow the line again and notice it has an arrow-head on it. Strange, I have never noticed that on a pointfile line before. Anyway, keep looking for the leak, it's got to be here somewhere.
Suddenly notice that the line I'm following is not yellow but purple. Ugh! Scratch head several times. Ah jeez, I'm following an entity link line that, surprise surprise, goes through solid walls.
LOL, goes bright red, looks around to see if anyone saw me (fortunately, like most mappers, I'm on my own) picks up the yellow line again, spots the short brush and un-leaks the leak.
I enjoy mapping.
Bad Brushes
#10454 posted by RaverX [79.113.44.9] on 2010/10/30 21:01:54
Mike, that happened to me a while ago and the guys here told me that I have corrupt brushes. Try to delete those walls and create them again. It helped me.
Yeah
#10455 posted by Drew [65.92.160.123] on 2010/10/30 22:31:53
good solution raverx
Sorry
#10456 posted by Drew [65.92.160.123] on 2010/10/30 22:40:53
I'm a dick.
#10457 posted by roblot [216.106.106.168] on 2010/10/30 23:02:02
That's a good one. At least it was an easy fix in the end. I just got my first HOM ever with a
Leaf portals saw into leaf near (x y z) error.
Turned out it was just the wads I was updating for the map. I was switching texture names around with different sized textures. The fix was deleting the .vis file (aguirre) for the map. Nothing was wrong with the brushes.
A While Ago
#10458 posted by RickyT23 [86.23.6.59] on 2010/11/02 22:59:15
Someone made a hacked version of Tyrlite which had the entity limit raised. Anyone remember that? I was gonna test it but I didnt get round to it till now, and now I cant remember where it was........?
Whoever it was that tried to help me - Thanks!! :) - but please help XD
Enhanced Tyrlite
#10459 posted by Mechtech [24.211.158.217] on 2010/11/03 11:31:09
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Works fine for me.
Thanks
#10460 posted by RickyT23 [217.35.249.230] on 2010/11/03 11:44:22
Awesome :)
Levels Have Custom Gravity
#10461 posted by ranger [210.0.178.216] on 2010/11/04 06:54:47
how can I make a bsp have a differnt gravity? like e1m8?
Ranger:
#10462 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/11/04 07:56:59
unfortunately the original quake progs.dat only hard-coded the gravity for e1m8, so no other map can use that feature. You will need to make a mod (or find an existing mod) that provides this feature.
I think Custents has it. Also, Hipnotic mission pack might have it. Anybody know about Quoth?
Yep !
#10463 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/11/04 08:44:57
Quoth supports gravity change:
check this http://kell.quaddicted.com/quoth/q...
Or The REALLY Cheap Way..
#10464 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/04 11:18:57
call it e1m8.bsp and put it in a different mod directory. quake -game yourmod +map e1m8
Or The REALLY REALLY Cheap Way
#10465 posted by negke [88.70.54.232] on 2010/11/04 11:48:16
Have a centerprint telling the player to change sv_gravity manually.
Now That's Just Silly
#10466 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/04 11:50:49
Have We Implemented This One Yet?
#10467 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/04 12:52:22
Depends Who And Where
#10468 posted by Spirit [82.113.121.198] on 2010/11/04 12:57:39
#10469 posted by gb [89.27.202.212] on 2010/11/05 02:08:17
Hipnotic's info_command and trigger_command I think. At least Quoth, RMQ, and either Custents or Extras also include that one.
Broken Ambient Sounds
#10470 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/11/08 00:02:00
hey, has anyone actually figured out why some of the ambients in quake don't work? Specifically, thunder1.wav and fl_hum1.wav. They play fine in standard sound apps.
#10471 posted by negke [88.70.51.18] on 2010/11/08 00:11:28
fl_hum1 works fine in light_fluoro and ambient_light_buzz. IIRC the thunder doesn't work because the wav is missing a loop marker (a looping thunder would sound silly anyway - maybe they wanted to add some randomize code but forgot). The ambient_thunder entity still precaches the sound, though, so one can play it with a hack.
Hmm...
#10472 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/11/08 08:37:49
my mistake, fl_hum1 does work, it's just very quiet :)
Portions Of Maps Disappearing.
#10473 posted by enliten [124.168.232.123] on 2010/11/08 17:21:20
Hey, I'm fairly new to this mapping thing. I'm having trouble with a room in my map, it's only visible when you walk into the room.
I had this problem in the same room earlier, I aligned some walls better and it seemed to fix the problem. However, I've just added some walls in a completely different area and it's re-occuring.
Is the reason why this is happenning because I've overlapped some brushes somewhere? Or am I off track?
Is there an easy way to find these errors prior to compiling?
I'm using Quark, txqbsp, rvis and arghlite.
Thanks.
Level Design Perforating My Mind
#10474 posted by Berntsen [217.14.11.155] on 2010/11/08 17:30:10
Hi all, been working on a Quake 1 singleplayer map for some time and have a couple of questions.
When I began working on my map, I decided to finish all the brush- and texturework first, not bothering to seal the map so it would compile fast, and then move on to entities like lights, monsters and doors and sealing it. However, when I last tried compiling I had reached the max clipnodes, so I'll have to seal up the map anyway and perhaps simplify some architecture, convert details into func_wall etc...
Anyway, I was wondering how you guys build your maps? Do you design it room by room, finishing each completely with lights, brushwork and entities before moving on to the next, or complete aesthetics first before moving on to entities?
And when it comes to compile tools, should I use txqbsp or treeqbsp? What's the main differences? How does your compile setup look like, what command line parameters would you suggest for soft, high-contrast lightning (i.e -soft, -extra etc)?
I'm using QuArK 6.6 Beta if that matters.
Thanks!
Firstly Hi!!!
#10475 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.17.189] on 2010/11/08 17:33:34
Always awesome to hear of new mappers.
First suggestion, use AguirRe's modified Vis tool, its the best. The only vis tool which is better is WVis which is just a modified version of AguirRe's tool which supports multi-threading (its faster if you have Hyperthreading in your CPU and/or more than 1 core):
(AguirRe's tools)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/bj...
(His Vis)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/vi...
(WVis modified by Willem)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wv...
This might fix the problem.
Another issue might be that you are using the ORIGINAL GlQuake client or WinQuake client. It has a console command to increase the draw distance, I cant remember what the command is, but you would be better off using a more modern client like Fitzquake:
http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake...
The other explanation would be that you are having a portal error which causes this to happen. This could be caused by a number of things, but basically its "poor mapping technique". The only real way for me to guage this is to have a look at your map source, or atleast a screenshot from Quark of the area which this happens. Preferbly a screenshot of a 3D view, with textures.
Looking at your mapsource is the easiest way.
Anyway it might be crappy vis program or bad client causing it, so try the new tools and engine first :)
Also Berntsen
#10476 posted by RickyT23 [81.157.17.189] on 2010/11/08 17:44:28
Hi!!
See the above post for a link to FitzQuake client, this will run a map quite happily which is over the limit for clipnodes.
I use TxQbsp, Im not sure the difference between that and Tree. I use the command -hilimit because my current map is soo big that if there was a leak it wouldnt even compile at all, because the compiler can't take it without that command!
I use AguirRe's light tool, also linked to in the above post, with the command line -extra4 (for a final compile) and nothing else.
I also use the Vis tools mentioned in the above post.
When using coloured lights I used to use Tyrlite with the command line -colored -lit -extra, because it was the only tool which I could get to work with coloured lights, but there is a modified version of AguirRe's light tool which now supports coloured lights which is not far from a release (infact i think it did get released in the General Abuse thread a couple of days ago!
As for how to build the map - well it depends. Some people like to block out the map first, with simple rooms, then work a little into the architecture, then put the monsters in, and THEN go through the map detailing it heavily. This is probably the best way of doing it.
I personally make most of my brushwork on the first pass, but I am starting to do blocking out first nowadays, just because it seems to be quicker.
Hitting limits of the original engine is not such a crime anymore. Fitzquake 0.85, AguirRe's modified GLQuake, Darkplaces, Quakespasm are all engines which will run maps far bigger than the original limits allowed. And FitzQuake is pretty much the standard for a Quake client. So if you wanna make huge maps, I say DO IT!!!!
#10477 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2010/11/08 17:50:08
enliten work with grid 16
I think you are working with low grids that make map full of leaks because of the alignment
welcome enliten and Berntsen any help you guys need with Quark just sent me a email or add me in msn!
Email in the same just check my profile!
#10478 posted by Berntsen [217.14.11.155] on 2010/11/08 18:08:22
Thanks for the quick replies guys.
I think I'm going to go with simple brushwork first and finish the entire map layout before moving on to more advanced stuff like entities and small details... until now I've been focusing on detailing every room before moving on, and have hit mappers block many times already, coupled with the fact that I'm indeed working on a large map, hasn't exactly been great for motivation.
But seeing some of the great maps you guys put out (like Vondur's new map, which was made in four days!), and knowing that there's still a thriving community for ol' Quake 1 really helps!
Thanks
#10479 posted by enliten [124.168.232.123] on 2010/11/08 18:40:24
Likewise, thanks for the quick replies...
I tried the different vis / light and am using darkplaces... It seems to be working ok now.
I've put the errors down to poor mapping skills, I seem to have found and eradicated the leaks. I still get errors in the compile, however they don't seem to be affecting the map in game.
I've done 50% of the geometry, then I'm on to the texturing, entities and polishing.
There Is No Best Way
#10480 posted by negke [88.70.234.156] on 2010/11/08 20:10:49
Each one has benefits and disadvantages on various stages of the building process. I usually map in a room-for-room manner, sometimes doing lighting on the fly, sometimes making the entire map and only then add lights. Brushwork and detailing are my favorite part.
Laying down the basic layout first is useful for DM maps; for SP maps one presumably doesn't have a 100% clear picture of the end result until later. Let SP maps grow or evolve as you work on them. Though I got to admit it's also fun (less demanding maybe) if you have a basic map where you don't have to worry about layout/gameplay and can go bezerk on the details.
enliten: Doesn't sound so much like a portal error as Ricky explained than a simple case of 'too many polys visible in a software engine' - assuming you're using Winquake. It's hard to give you a proper tip in this case, it depends on a couple of factors. You might just need some geometry for visblocking (e.g. L-shaped corridors).
Going Well
#10481 posted by enliten [203.206.17.241] on 2010/11/10 17:10:48
Hey guys, the map is going really well. I've discovered and fixed all but 2 warnings in the 'compile'. All I have to do is add lights, spawnpoints and then polish it a little...
However I've now encountered a new problem... One of my teleporters doesn't teleport to the correct destination. I've checked the target name and it's correct. Any ideas?
Thanks again for all the help.
Ignore Previous Question
#10482 posted by enliten [203.206.17.241] on 2010/11/10 17:16:14
human error...
had a brush running through it which was difficult to see in the view i was using.
#10483 posted by Trinca [81.84.135.90] on 2010/11/10 22:01:02
:)
normal noob error we all do then all the time :p
BengtLightColoured New Light Tool : )
#10484 posted by Mechtech [24.211.158.217] on 2010/11/14 15:00:25
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Fast,Fast,Fast.
Tyrelite extra 39sec
BengtLightColoured extra 21sec
Found 1 thing using Quoth 2. It will stop on error about missing 3 values for color. If you use things like func_togglewall or light_marsh and set the color. Just add two zeros and all is good.
Thanks MH
BengtLightColoured New Light Tool : )
#10485 posted by Mechtech [24.211.158.217] on 2010/11/14 15:00:26
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Fast,Fast,Fast.
Tyrelite extra 39sec
BengtLightColoured extra 21sec
Found 1 thing using Quoth 2. It will stop on error about missing 3 values for color. If you use things like func_togglewall or light_marsh and set the color. Just add two zeros and all is good.
Thanks MH
Double Click On Submit BAD Sorry
#10486 posted by Mechtech [24.211.158.217] on 2010/11/14 15:01:29
Light Speed
#10487 posted by negke [88.70.243.130] on 2010/11/14 15:14:43
Another way to speed up the lighting process is to add -gate 1. This will make it finish considerably faster, without any visible artifacts or downsides.
Mechtech
#10488 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.17] on 2010/11/14 19:16:54
That is not the final version!
And it is always nice to tell the developer about such problems.
I guess those entities use a single integer to determine a "distinct" index (eg 1=red, 2=blue)? Don't those entities use "color", not "_color" though? I wonder what would be a good way to allow this too.
#10489 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/15 20:01:44
after using mh's version of aguirre's light for a while now, i've noticed it seems to be less prone to that ugly washed out colour effect that used to happen in the old coloured light utils.
is this something mh did or is it just a side effect of aguirre's new lighting (delay 5 vs delay 2)?
either way, it's very nice. i'll probably be using it from now on.
i have noticed it crashes if you try to do a -onlyents update for switchable lights though.
I Mailed MH Both Those Error Reports Now.
#10490 posted by Spirit [80.171.40.204] on 2010/11/15 21:30:16
#10491 posted by mh [109.79.230.253] on 2010/11/15 22:25:02
Fixed. :)
I guess I really should release this now; the final (I hope!) version is *MUCH* improved from the one you've currently got. Gimme a few minutes...
#10492 posted by mh [109.79.230.253] on 2010/11/15 22:27:37
> is this something mh did or is it just a side effect of aguirre's new lighting (delay 5 vs delay 2)?
It's mostly from the original code being pretty damn good to begin with.
#10493 posted by mh [109.79.230.253] on 2010/11/15 22:38:32
Here we go: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Hopefully this addresses all the problems with the first version. Please check out the readme for release 2 (included in the zip) as it contains some important info about why the timer display is the way it is, by the way.
#10494 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/16 02:56:57
1:52 for 2.6G (billion?) casts. (-soft -gate 5.0)
http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/...
it's pretty much perfect right now. i can't think of a single thing wrong with it atm.
and on top of that there's coloured sunlight too (which i totally wasn't expecting, so a nice surprise! :))
if anyone's been holding off on coloured lights, there's literally no reason not to use this now. combines aguirre's great lighting tricks with multicore and colours.
n1 man. :)
Mh
#10495 posted by negke [88.70.62.195] on 2010/11/16 09:57:36
Nice work. But I think it would be better to credit Bengt Jardrup rather than aguirRe in the readme, as his tools and engines are more immediately known under that name while hardly anyone outside the dev boards can make the connection to the nick.
Help With Ambient_sounds
#10496 posted by Futur4 [151.66.160.250] on 2010/11/16 13:09:46
Hi.. it's not clear to me if ambient sounds in Quake must be triggered to start looping !?
And why the hell there's no an Ambient_generic as in Half-Life ??
so what about if I want a custom music play allthetime in my map?
Please answerme
Ambients
#10497 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/16 15:57:53
In id1 start on and can't be removed.
There are mods that add additional functionality for custom sounds like Quoth or RMQ, although only the former has a devkit document so far.
Thanks Ijed
#10498 posted by Futur4 [151.66.161.135] on 2010/11/16 16:09:37
"ID1" you mean the folder under quake folder ?
I've got so many ideas for my maps(I'm using Worldcraft+adapter) but coming from ValveHammer/HalfLife editing I'm facing with many limits here in Quake.
And Ijed where are in Quake entities such "multimanager,trigger_auto,et... ?
Oh poor me!
#10499 posted by RaverX [79.113.90.69] on 2010/11/16 17:56:25
Futur4, Quake is much older than Half Life. Half Life is based on Quake engine, but it has a lot of new features. So it's normal that a lot of fix cannot be found in Quake.
But that's a part of Quake charm, it doesn't have coloured lighting, translucency (except for water), etc, etc.
So you'll have to compensate those with a strong feeling. It's very easy to create a nice map when you have detalied textures, fancy shader effects, etc.
It's a lot harder to do it with simple textures and a basic engine. If you can't do it or you don't like the limits then move to other game - no offense. UT3 maps looks stunning (visually), but they lack the Quake feeling.
#10500 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/16 18:26:18
If you can't do it or you don't like the limits then move to other game - no offense.
if everyone thought like this then there would be no mods or custom engines! there is plenty that can be done to improve the technical side of quake without affecting the 'feel', including improved trigger entities
"ID1" you mean the folder under quake folder ?
basically when people refer to 'id1' they mean standard vanilla quake, with no mods. it might be worth giving quoth (http://kell.quaddicted.com/) a try for some more advanced options, or if you're really feeling adventurous then you can read up on some qc tutorials here: http://www.inside3d.com/gettingsta... and play around with adding your own entities
What Rj Said
#10501 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/16 20:14:43
#10502 posted by gb [89.27.242.161] on 2010/11/16 23:48:04
> But that's a part of Quake charm, it doesn't have coloured lighting, translucency (except for water), etc, etc.
Of course it does have those.
#10503 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/11/17 15:18:38
gb - standard Quake does not have any of those.
tweaked engines - yes, but that's something different.
This way you can say that Quake supports displacement mapping, a very neat feature. But that's in darkplaces + special textures. So it's a NEW engine + new textures.
I enjoy a lot more standard Quake - the moment you start adding hi res textures, fancy lighting, etc - that moment it's not Quake - not the dark, scary Quake that we love (at least I love that feeling)
RMQ Engine Is Up For Testing
#10504 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/17 16:02:06
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
And, all engines are tweaked now - hirez stuff is always optional, if you don't like it you can just turn it off.
Trigger_camera In Quake ?!
#10505 posted by Futur4 [151.66.162.58] on 2010/11/17 16:43:34
Hi is there in Quake a trigger_camera such in HalfLife for in-game movies ?
maybe info_intermission ?
How can I in Worldcraft/Quake build simple intro/outro for my maps ?
Info_intermission
#10506 posted by negke [88.70.54.212] on 2010/11/17 16:50:27
It's the camera for the stats screen after exiting the map.
Open WC's entity def file in a text editor to see which entities are there and what they do.
Thanks Neg!ke
#10507 posted by Futur4 [151.66.162.58] on 2010/11/17 16:54:43
Can info_intermission camera be used for mini ingame movies ?
If not is there a way to do so ?
Ambient_sounds Don't Work / Vanilla Quake
#10508 posted by Futur4 [151.66.162.58] on 2010/11/17 17:11:19
Another "simple" question worrying me:
I'm using Worldcraft+Qadapter and in my map ambient_sounds(drone,wind,...) cannot be listened !
-they need to be triggered ?(already tried :()
-try with another engine? (I use WinAguirre)
-what's "precache sounds"?
..i'm putting off with Quake mapping
You'll Need
#10509 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/17 17:57:14
A custom progs for in-game minimatics again.
The ambient sounds thing is strange. Are you sure the sound isn't just being masked by other sounds playing nearby?
Alternatively, if you've got a lot of things making noise nearby the ambient might just get dumped as not important. For example, 20+ burning torches in earshot + the player + enemies would probably do it.
Sound Overload
#10510 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 19:22:06
shouldn't be apparent in aguirre's engines. at least i'd have thought...
futur4: if by 'mini ingame movies' you mean cutscenes :P then no, they aren't available in the standard quake progs. surprisingly not in quoth either. but they do feature in some mods if you really want them, for example zer - give it a download and have a look in devkit.txt. scroll down to where it says * Overview *</a> and it details all the new ents you need to add to worldcraft's fgd file to set up cutscenes. you can then run quake with -game zer to play your map. the downside is that other people will also need zer to play it, but everyone should have it anyway, it's awesome 8)
no idea why ambient_drone or ambient_suck_wind wouldn't work.. if you just put them in without any extra fields anyway.
'precache sound' - precaching is what the engine has to do for any sounds or models before they are used
Fucking Tags Again :Z
#10511 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 19:22:59
sound overload shouldn't be apparent in aguirre's engines. at least i'd have thought...
futur4: if by 'mini ingame movies' you mean cutscenes :P then no, they aren't available in the standard quake progs. surprisingly not in quoth either. but they do feature in some mods if you really want them, for example zer - give it a download and have a look in devkit.txt. scroll down to where it says * Overview * and it details all the new ents you need to add to worldcraft's fgd file to set up cutscenes. you can then run quake with -game zer to play your map. the downside is that other people will also need zer to play it, but everyone should have it anyway, it's awesome 8)
no idea why ambient_drone or ambient_suck_wind wouldn't work.. if you just put them in without any extra fields anyway.
'precache sound' - precaching is what the engine has to do for any sounds or models before they are used
RaverX
#10512 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 19:43:33
I enjoy a lot more standard Quake - the moment you start adding hi res textures, fancy lighting, etc - that moment it's not Quake - not the dark, scary Quake that we love (at least I love that feeling)
how can you assume that something cannot be 'dark and scary' if it uses coloured lighting and hi-res textures? o_0
there is still so much about quake that makes it what it is regardless of new features that have been added. it has a pretty unique atmosphere that certainly isn't lost when the light from a wall-torch has a slight yellow tint to it, or if slime emits a green glow, or if you come across a pane of glass you can see through... etc.
most of these things aren't exactly 'new' either and are in pretty much every presently-maintained engine there is. darkplaces is admittedly pretty far removed from the bunch though as it has gone on to be more than just a quake platform...
RJ..
#10513 posted by Futur4 [151.66.164.72] on 2010/11/17 19:58:06
..you explained very well.. that's exact my problem ! I dont want people need another mod to play mine! could it be enough to just add Zerstorer progs with my mod ?
With Hammer/Halflife set-up cutscenes was a breeze but in Quake ...
tell me.. info_intermission could be used to set up simple intros(with text,different frames) ??
Ambient_sounds Still Not Work
#10514 posted by Futur4 [151.66.164.72] on 2010/11/17 20:05:13
I simply put ambient_drone,wind,.. entities in my Worldcraft map 4 times at cardinal points around the player.. compiled and.. NOTHING
-Do I have to "precache" them ? And how?
-what's the command line for launching them manually in Quake ?
-Maybe do I have to trigger them(already done)but.. as you know ambient_ entities have no keys/flags ..
#10515 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/17 20:29:53
could it be enough to just add Zerstorer progs with my mod ?
you could do that, but then you'd need to include all the models and sounds for the progs to work correctly. at that point, you're just bundling the zerstorer mod with your map so it's easier to just link to a download of zerstorer at that point.
Quake Is Not Half-Life. Period
#10516 posted by negke [88.70.54.212] on 2010/11/17 20:36:29
If you want to add cutscenes to your mod, you can incorporate the code from the corresponding qc files of course, or better yet, refer to the CCK from the level Vision of Hatred (at Quaddicted).
The ambient_ sounds don't have to be triggered or anything. Just place them and done. If they don't play for you, there must be something wrong on your end, accidentally spawnflagged out, possibly a modified pak0/wav, or something you're not telling us. Note that the ambient sounds can't be heard throughout the map, only when the player is relatively close to the source.
#10517 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 20:36:39
could it be enough to just add Zerstorer progs with my mod ?
i don't think that would be a problem in all honesty. it was free in the first place and i doubt any of the team would mind (not that they'd still be about in the quake scene anyway!)
info_intermission is unfortunately a pretty simple entity that can't be configured much. it just shows the engine where to look when the end screen comes up
as for the sounds... i can only suggest uploading a .map so i (or someone else) can see what's going wrong. the precaching is done in the entity code in the qc, so isn't something you have to worry about unless messing with the qc yourself. again though, they can't be triggered.. you plonk them in without a targetname and they simply play continuously. this is really where a mod like quoth comes in handy, as you can have play_sound_triggered, which enables you to set any sound at any volume and have it triggered on & off. zer has something like this too though i think.. check the devkit file
also i don't know of a command for playing sounds manually in-game. there might be one but i can't really imagine a practical use for it...
I Must Add..
#10518 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 20:39:55
If you want to add cutscenes to your mod, you can incorporate the code from the corresponding qc files of course, or better yet, refer to the CCK from the level Vision of Hatred (at Quaddicted).
^ this is the best way when it comes to adding stuff in general. it just involves getting familiar with quake c, even if it does just involve copying & pasting bits from other mods :)
#10519 posted by negke [88.70.54.212] on 2010/11/17 20:42:52
Of course you can also ask yourself if the cutscene is really that important for the level, crucial to the story etc., or if maybe the introduction could be done by other means, a few centerprint text messages, for instance. Because the thing is, setting up cutscenes in Quake is huge pain in the ass, and probably a waste of time if it's not going to be a real cinematic event or anything substantial.
Rj
#10520 posted by negke [88.70.54.212] on 2010/11/17 20:44:29
Command to play sounds: "play"
Well I'll Be Goddamned
#10521 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 21:57:44
Thanks To Ya All
#10522 posted by Futur4 [151.66.166.207] on 2010/11/17 22:31:56
Negke: yes you're right but what entity should I use for multiple text messages ?
My goal is to link/sync plot text-messages with different frames of my map while the player is frozen.. so I hoped info_intermission be handy : )
..anyway I guess I'll stick with Quoth
#10523 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/17 23:01:28
why freeze the player? they'll stop to read the messages when they come up anyway :)
for multiple messages you just want several different trigger_relay ents with the same targetname but different 'delay' values on them, eg. one with 0, the next with 3, then 6, etc...
Yeah
#10524 posted by negke [88.70.60.110] on 2010/11/17 23:46:30
Just have message scripts at key positions and the player will stop to read them, as rj said. You can even make centerprints with linebreaks by putting \n between the lines - not recommended, though, unless the second line is very short. You could `freeze` the player by putting such messages in front of locked doors or bars that only open afterwards.
Yes & No
#10525 posted by Futur4 [151.66.166.207] on 2010/11/18 02:23:28
Yes.. I agree with ya all, but :
1)in Quake there's no a game_text entity
rj: trigger_relay ?! can you explain me better?
2)my maps are sp not multiplayer so there's only 1 player to be frozen (anyway frozen is not so important)
Point is I want to create some intro for my map.. also static pictures could do the trick BUT I don't want to touch qc code if possible :)
----------------------------------...
If I got it right you say only Zerstorer and Vision(DarinMcNeil) have attempted to do cutscenes ?
----------------------------------...
Is it possible to start my map with a
non-playable demo(Nehahra style)exiting to my playable map .. so I'd have a damn intro ;)
----------------------------------...
Futur4
#10526 posted by generic [67.233.204.162] on 2010/11/18 02:52:41
You really should experiment with each of the available entities first. Then you will see all of their lovely limitations ;)
Trigger_once contains a (centerprint) message that you can set.
Check out the intro to Vondur's new map for an example.
Keeping the player 'frozen', however, is going to be more trouble than it it worth, IMHO.
Zerstorer Progs
#10527 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.70.224] on 2010/11/18 03:11:08
That's the answer. There are some speedmaps....
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
I wonder how easy it would be to get some zerstorer mapsources?
Generic, Rickyt23,..
#10528 posted by Futur4 [151.66.166.207] on 2010/11/18 03:56:33
..What is max length(characters) of a message with trigger_once ?
----------------------------------...
How do I implement cutscenes portion code from Zer or Vision in my mod? Copy/paste in the progs.dat? Or need to modify other files ?
----------------------------------...
Why nobody has created a simple camera entity for Worldcraft/Quake yet ? (eheh)
They Have Created The Entity
#10529 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.70.224] on 2010/11/18 04:13:10
info_camera. And if you do want to create your own mod then there's inside3d.com. I have zero QuakeC ability. You can map for Zerstorer (it's very similar to Quake, just a few entities added!
The mod comes with documentation and the source for the progs.dat! Inside the .zip you will find DEVKIT.txt and DEVKIT.zip. There lies the key!
#10530 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.70.224] on 2010/11/18 04:13:29
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/...
Read And Understand
#10531 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/11/18 07:41:50
The CutsceneCameraKit has all you need.
You don't need to bunch Zerstorer.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/cck.t...
And as I couldn´t find the level on Quake addict...,
http://members.home.nl/gimli/VISIO...
Visions
#10532 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/11/18 07:43:34
Darrin MacNeal was so good to make this level and add the CCK in 1-15/97.
Great level, I couldn´t find it on QuakAddicted.
#10533 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/18 07:48:05
i feel i should warn you... even if you get the camera thing working, you will not get good results from panning the camera. stick to a still camera or at the most slide the camera itself.
if you must pan the camera, do it quickly.
low angles resolution means a slow pan will be very jerky.
Good Luck
#10534 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/18 13:00:49
Aderlass Source
#10535 posted by generic [67.233.204.162] on 2010/11/18 13:36:10
On Negke's page, here: http://negke.quaddicted.com/files/...
#10536 posted by roblot [216.106.106.49] on 2010/11/18 14:56:16
trigger_once max characters is just under 40 I think, with 3 lines and 2 linebreaks (/n)
I remember seeing good panning results on newer GL game engines, not sure though. Always worth watching for me.
Ok I Got Vision By DarinMcNeil
#10537 posted by Futur4 [151.66.167.135] on 2010/11/18 16:30:43
..actually I've just completed my big dvd(9gb)with all(I mean all!) Quake single-player stuff(but also dm)ever created..all sorted by author! a 4 years work! :(
..I know I'm crazy.. now little by little start playing !
Relays
#10538 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/18 19:10:20
1)in Quake there's no a game_text entity
rj: trigger_relay ?! can you explain me better?
trigger_relay is your standard generic point entity trigger. by point entity i mean it doesn't have a brush; it cannot be activated by touching; only by another entity targeting it.
so for a sequence of messages on the screen, you would have a trigger_once (or trigger_multiple) that the player would pass through, then that might have a target of 'gametext1'. you can then have three trigger_relay ents, all with a targetname of 'gametext1' but with different delay values like i described before. then you would simply edit the 'message' field in each one to display your text on the screen. you can even use the trigger_relay ents to target other things, which makes them far more useful than a plain game_text trigger :)
for alternative intro ideas without cameras or demos, you could have the player suspended in an invisible clip box above a special area, or moving slowly through a trigger_push, before being teleported to the start location...
Also
#10539 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/18 19:46:24
If you give a teleporter a name then it won't teleport the player until you activate it.
..nice Idea !
#10540 posted by Futur4 [151.66.164.28] on 2010/11/19 04:38:42
Oh interesting .. the player suspended, so one could create sequences such when Gordon was captured in HL..
though free look is a problem for an intro..
----------------------------------...
Thanks for all suggestions..
Someone can explain(I'm a novice of qc code) step by step the implementation of camera code by DarinMcNeil ? -i've read the .txt-
What files specifically do I need from it?only the progs? Cutscenes must be configured in Worldcraft or not ?
Carefull With Parms
#10541 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/11/19 04:54:42
The included level show most of the noted parms. I've extruded the vision.bsp to a mapfile with winqbsp. Then you can see the chosen entities, and how they act.
I tried out some of the events, and most are usefull. But the options are somewhat tricky so I copied parts of the map file to my own to identify the different use of the info_script.
If you're not familiar with quake.qc it's easier just to use the included progs.dat.
At least it is not as heavy as the whole zerstorer progs.
..MadFox (or Others)
#10542 posted by Futur4 [151.66.164.28] on 2010/11/19 05:07:05
I know the entities involved.. but I need help with the progs:
example: so I have to put Vision progs in my mod folder and create cutscenes editing the code in it ?? or camera entities can appear in Worldcraft ?
----------------------------------
what about camera code included in CUSTENTS by generalWart ?
#10543 posted by negke [88.70.244.135] on 2010/11/19 10:46:16
You put the progs.dat in your mod folder and create the cutscene in Worldcraft with the new info_camera and info_script entities as per the instructions in cck.txt.
Fgd File Entries
#10544 posted by RickyT23 [86.137.237.129] on 2010/11/19 11:35:35
If you load your fgd file into a text editor, you can add the new entities there, then you can use the smartedit feature to set them up. The fgd is the "forge game data" file, and you will find it's location by looking in the options menu in Worldcraft. The syntax is fairly easy to understand, I would just make the info_camera entity based upon copy and pasting the entry for an "info_notnull", then changing the necessary info.
Thank.. That's What I Needed To Know
#10545 posted by Futur4 [151.66.167.91] on 2010/11/19 13:01:15
One last thing..
from the Vision.zip(DarinMcNeil) I need progs.dat only? cause he included many files.
----------------------------------...
So I copy entities code from Darin in my fgd and the new entities should appear in Worldcraft ? Is all that simple ?
Urgent ! Sorry For So Many Posts But..
#10546 posted by Futur4 [151.66.167.91] on 2010/11/19 14:05:01
My other issue was with ambient_sounds..
..Atlast I got them to work! But in order to be audible ingame I had to place these ambient sounds really close to the player!
My error was to place them at the 4 cardinal points(as in HalfLife) of my map.
So now they work.. but useless! cause my goal is to have a looping ingame music constantly audible wherever player is !
..suggestions ?
Use Quoth Mod...
#10547 posted by JPL [82.227.228.57] on 2010/11/19 15:53:40
.. or die ;)
Ambient Music
#10548 posted by RaverX [82.77.53.4] on 2010/11/19 16:02:07
This map has something has it.
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/...
And you can even start/stop the music using buttons in the map.
But I think you need a custom engine for it - fitzquake works (from what I remember)
#10549 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/19 18:01:00
from the Vision.zip(DarinMcNeil) I need progs.dat only? cause he included many files.
that's all you need to play the map with the cutscene entities. but you will need the qcs (as well as the rest of the source - available from inside3d as linked by me above) if you want to modify the code any further. say, to add ambient sounds...
So now they work.. but useless! cause my goal is to have a looping ingame music constantly audible wherever player is !
..suggestions ?
modify the qc code ;)
if you open up misc.qc and bung the following in somewhere after the normal ambient entities...
void() ambientsound_start =
{
ambientsound (self.origin, self.noise, self.volume, self.distance);
};
void() fx_ambientsound =
{
if (self.noise == string_null)
objerror ("fx_ambientsound without noise!");
precache_sound (self.noise);
// Default volume to 1.0 if not specified
if(self.volume <= 0)
self.volume = 1.0;
// Default to ATTN_STATIC if out of range
if(self.distance < ATTN_NONE || self.distance > ATTN_STATIC)
self.distance = ATTN_STATIC;
if (self.targetname)
self.use = ambientsound_start;
else
{
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = ambientsound_start;
}
/*
// start right away if not triggered
if(self.targetname == string_null) {
// Need to start on the second frame since that's when entities not called in world_spawn are created
self.nextthink = time + 0.1;
self.think = ambientsound_start;
}
else// wait for trigger
self.use = ambientsound_start;
*/
};
then paste this in your fgd:
@PointClass base(Sound)= fx_ambientsound : "Ambient Sound"
[
targetname(target_source) : "Name"
noise(string) : "Sound"
volume(string) : "Volume"
distance(choices) : "Attenuation" : 0 =
[
0 : "Play Globally"
1 : "Large Radius"
2 : "Medium Radius"
3 : "Normal Radius"
]
]
then you *should* have a new entity capable of playing the sound file of your choice at the volume of your choice, with distance set to 0 if you want it playing throughout the map. hopefully anyway...
So I copy entities code from Darin in my fgd and the new entities should appear in Worldcraft ?
well not exactly as FGD uses its own code/format as i'm sure you are aware. have a look in the fgd and figure it out; you should be able to add the entities yourself based on the information in cck.txt
Ah
#10550 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2010/11/19 18:02:39
Ambient sounds in Quake are just used for that. Custom stuff is needed for ingame music.
Some mods, like Qouth, let you set attenuation -1 which means they're heard globally, but only while you're looking in their direction. That's where putting them at the cardinal points comes in.
#10551 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/11/19 20:35:36
..Atlast I got them to work! But in order to be audible ingame I had to place these ambient sounds really close to the player!
My error was to place them at the 4 cardinal points(as in HalfLife) of my map.
Ah... yes, you mentioned this earlier but i think we assumed you meant you placed 4 in the same room as the player. Quake ambients are localized, you have to scatter them through out the rooms and hallways of your map.
NOTE: you only can have 116 of them if you are using a standard quake engine. And torches/flames count towards this total too.
Like I Said 40 Posts Above....
#10552 posted by negke [88.70.92.57] on 2010/11/19 20:41:06
As for the soundtrack, the easiest solution would be to supply an mp3 which people can play in the background while playing the map. Or not, if they don't like it.
..ok Negke, Rj(your Verbosity Appreciated), Ijed, Metlslime
#10553 posted by Futur4 [151.66.166.46] on 2010/11/20 00:55:36
Thank for all suggestions.. now my brain is melting..
As I stated I'm a not too bad mapper and musician.. but ignorant in qc code
I got my own songs ready but maps are not done yet.
----------------------------------...
ps: I tried MikeWoodham "ThisOnion" it's really a nice work but soundtrack is the real winner!
I Dont Think Making
#10554 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.70.224] on 2010/11/20 05:06:22
your own progs.dat will be so hard. People here have done similar to what you are talking about, if you try as much as you can and keep asking here you will succeed :)
Yeah
#10555 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/20 11:29:44
i'm no coder at all. but qc is pretty simple once you try and familiarise yourself with it, especially seeing as all you need to do is copy & paste the right bits in the right places. definitely worth looking at
It Is Simple
#10556 posted by ijed [190.22.113.61] on 2010/11/20 13:40:00
But save it for the next project. One step at a time :)
- Request For FuncMsg Regulars -
#10557 posted by Futur4 [151.66.163.194] on 2010/11/23 20:53:53
1)Please somebody could upload a Quake progs.dat complete with cutscenes code and in-game music code ?
2)And the suitable *.fgd for Worldcraft/Qadapter ?
ehm.. I feel embarassed, but I really need those for my projects(I know nothing of qc!)
Bye
Your Options
#10558 posted by gb [89.27.241.213] on 2010/11/23 21:23:48
1. Custents
http://www.quakewiki.net/quake-1/m...
http://wartrench.telefragged.com/
This is a custom progs.dat called custents. In the download, there is a doc folder with an index.htm. Please look at that in a web browser and read the descriptions of the new entities.
There is a camera entity, an actor (npc), and sound playing entities that can be triggered.
It also comes with example maps.
2. Extras
http://quake.chaoticbox.com/downlo...
That is another custom progs.dat which also comes with a lot of documentation. I don't remember if this one has cameras. Has example maps as well.
3. Zerstörer
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
And this last one is the Zerstörer progs.dat, source etc. Please read devkit.txt, it tells you which entities to use and how. You should be able to do the same kind of cutscenes that you see in the mod, Zerstörer. I found this on my disk.
4. Quoth
Quoth has sound playing entities, but no cutscene stuff.
5. RMQ
I will create a webpage soon that explains how to use RMQ as a mapping toolkit. It has very nice cameras that can lerp from one to the other, rotate and be daisy chained etc.
I think we will release the code (and progs.dat) either with the next demo or at least around the same time, I hope it'll be before the end of this year.
There is an older progs.dat at the RMQ blog, but the cameras aren't so advanced. I advise against using that.
Take a good look at custents and extras, please. If you still have problems after doing that, contact me and we might be able to solve them.
Gb
#10559 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/11/23 22:34:49
i have a feeling your advice is kinda wasted on this guy...
My First Map Used Custents.
#10560 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/23 23:47:34
good times.... ^_^
looking back... man, i had like no idea what i was doing. it was also the least quakey of all my maps. :P
hm... i believe nostalgia mode has been activated...
#10561 posted by gb [89.27.241.213] on 2010/11/24 00:24:23
Making mistakes is a required step of the learning process. Let this guy make his.
Rotate_objects With Mismatched Vis Connection
#10562 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/25 04:39:03
don't know the exact terminology for this, but essentially, bmodels are attached to vis areas to determine whether they are visible or not. if the player can't see any of the vis areas that the bmodel it attached to, the bmodel isn't drawn.
essentially what happens is that the rotate_object is somehow linked to the vis area at the origin and not with the vis area that the bmodel is actually located in.
so you get a rotate_object that flickers in and out of existence (or just plain isn't there if the '0 0 0' vis area is never visible).
i've learned a little more since the last time this happened to me and i know that using setorigin() on an entity 'links' it back into the world visibility or some-such.
so i open up the code and add a new line to the rotate_object function:
setorigin(self, self.origin);
this should link it in.
didn't work.
the other thing that plays a part in visibility is the bbox of an entity. so i put in:
setsize( self, '-512 -512 -512', '512 512 512' );
an arbitrary, very large, bbox.
ok, so it works now. yay!
but WHY?
rotate_object already sets it's size to self.mins and self.maxs. this works for 99% of rotate_objects that are made. why is it that occasionally i need to reset the bbox to some other value to get it to work?
is this a qbsp problem maybe? how does the engine first load up things like mins/maxs? it it precomputed or does the engine figure it out the first time?
Noob
#10563 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/11/25 06:45:16
about coding, but could this bigger setsize not be the total of the start and end position?
#10564 posted by metlslime [166.205.8.225] on 2010/11/25 09:35:29
Could be it has a huge bbox and touches too many vis leafs, this plagues large func_walls also. This problem has not been fixed in fitzquake yet as I don't know which numbers control that behavior.
#10565 posted by metlslime [166.205.8.225] on 2010/11/25 09:35:30
Could be it has a huge bbox and touches too many vis leafs, this plagues large func_walls also. This problem has not been fixed in fitzquake yet as I don't know which numbers control that behavior.
Necros
#10566 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/11/25 11:12:15
I would suppose that in order for the object to be visible one of the two must be true:
A) The bounding box must be large enough to fit the object at every point in its rotation.
B) The original bounding box is visible from every place that you can see the rotating object
B is what happens most of the time - although what might be termed a bug in the code is present, it doesn't manifest itself. In B I'm using visible in the sense of 'being in the engine's PVS', but 'see' in the sense of it being rendered for the observer.
For example, if you create an hour hand pointing to 1:30 in it's rest pose, the bounding box might be a square running from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock. Then imagine you load it in game and move the hand to 7 o'clock. The bounding box does not rotate, so the hand is now completely outside the box, in the opposite quadrant. However it is still likely that in most places where you can see the 7 o'clock mark of the clock face, some part of the original bounding box is in the 'potentially visible set' that the engine gets from VIS.
I'm sure that in any case where the visible object can leave the original bounding box entirely, you can construct a point on the map where you can experience the bug. However, in most circumstances the rotating object is almost off-screen itself, and so it isn't apparent. Objects where their info_rotate lies some way outside their bounding box are much more susceptible to this. It's also worth noting that rotating your viewpoint can change what the engine deems visible.
So B is basically the usual situation, the bug is there all the time but by-and-large we get away with it. Setting the bounding box to some very large size moves us into category A - the rotating object never leaves its bounding box so no rendering bug can occur. We might ask how small can we make the bounding box and avoid the bug, both to keep overdraw down and to ensure that we do catch the entire size.
If we calculate the maximum of vlen(self.maxs) and vlen(self.mins) and call that x, then set the size of the bounding box to be '-x -x -x' to 'x x x'. This is sufficient and necessary, since we've found the furthest point from the rotation origin our object could be, and then created the smallest cube which contains a sphere of that radius.
Of course, this is only as optimal as a static bounding box can get. If the engine were to recalculate bounding boxes based on rotation then we would be home free. Since the engine doesn't bother, I wouldn't want to begin considering doing it in QC...
Splash Damage And Bboxes
#10567 posted by negke [88.70.52.248] on 2010/11/25 15:36:04
Can someone please explain to me how that works - I'm getting a little frustrated here. I have a shootable button in a recess on the upper part of a wall small room. Shooting rockets at walls and floor doesn't affect it. However, there's a monster in front of it which somehow transfers the rocket's splash damage to the button. Or at least doesn't block it. What do I have to consider here?
#10568 posted by gb [89.27.243.105] on 2010/11/25 18:18:21
> Could be it has a huge bbox and touches too many vis leafs, this plagues large func_walls also. This problem has not been fixed in fitzquake yet as I don't know which numbers control that behavior.
I think this is it. I'm pretty sure that was fixed in RMQ, probably DirectQ, Proquake etc. a while ago, I remember it being called the flicker fix or flickering bmodels fix.
#10569 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/11/25 19:49:34
What do I have to consider here?
Splash damage against BSP objects is meted out based strictly on a traceline between {the midpoint of the entity's mins and maxs} and {the origin of the blast}. Monsters (strictly things with FL_MONSTER) are ignored by the traceline. If the trace_fraction equals 1 or the trace_ent is the BSP object in question then damage is inflicted.
I'm guessing that normally the centre of mass of the button can't be traced to, but that when hitting a monster the explosion gets a clean line of sight at it (ignoring the monster itself which doesn't count for these traces).
Ok
#10570 posted by negke [88.70.255.2] on 2010/11/25 22:03:23
Makes sense. Moving the button further into the wall fixed it. Maybe I just expected too much of Quake's physics.
Oh How The Bsp Tree Taunts Me
#10571 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.70.224] on 2010/11/26 00:08:03
Oh why, oh little cuboid light fitting, oh why do you taunt me so? How can there be 300 more vertexes when you are a func_illusionary, oh why?
#10572 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/26 05:40:12
Could be it has a huge bbox and touches too many vis leafs, this plagues large func_walls also. This problem has not been fixed in fitzquake yet as I don't know which numbers control that behavior.
i can confirm this has a high likely hood of being the problem as i just ran a quick test with the rmq engine that was release a few days ago and the problem isn't present.
thanks for helping clear this up for me. :)
the actual bbox dimensions that the engine was generating for the bmodel must have been even larger than 512^3.
#10573 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/11/26 05:42:01
ditto for DirectQ.
#10574 posted by metlslime [166.205.10.91] on 2010/11/27 09:43:24
Check it with sv_showboxes 1 if you're curious.
Static Ents Modelindex
#10575 posted by negke [88.70.86.104] on 2010/12/02 17:58:13
How does the static entity handling work? On mapstart things like illusionaries, ambient_ and flames are moved to the static roster and then removed from the entity list or something like that. Now how can I find out which modelindex they have, the flames for instance, without trying every single value?
Oh, Of Course
#10576 posted by negke [88.70.86.104] on 2010/12/02 18:53:36
DP's "modellist" command!
(Thanks Preach 2005.)
Random Thought
#10577 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/02 21:18:32
if you were making a custom progs, you could create a new lightstyle, let's say #12 that was the same as #0 (always on).
then, every single pointlight in the map you would set to style #12 (instead of leaving it blank).
now, set up your sunlight which would be lightstyle #0.
you could make a map/mod where you started at dusk, with sunlight and an appropriate skybox, then mid-way through the map, have your qc change lightstyle 0 to off, making your sunlight disappear and swap to a nighttime skybox, leaving you with a full dark exterior wtih only pointlights still showing.
not ground breaking or anything, but it'd be cool to see...
Question
#10578 posted by Tronyn [205.200.250.146] on 2010/12/03 05:06:48
is the maximum map size/grid in worldcraft/Hammer reflective of any limit in Quake itself and if not, is there any way to make the map size/grid bigger?
#10579 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/03 08:15:38
not quite sure what you are asking.
the maximum map size in glquake/fq is +-4096.
you can build beyond that range, but only the visual component will be correct. entities passing beyond those ranges 'loop around' to the other side of the map like pacman.
extended engines like DP allow you to build beyond the 4096 boundary.
Yeah...
#10580 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2010/12/03 08:37:24
the +=4096 boundary is purely a network protocol limit, not a limit in the quakec interpreter or map/bsp format.
#10581 posted by gb [89.27.223.99] on 2010/12/03 21:46:25
If your editor has the 4096 limit hardwired into it, then that sucks. Both Quest and Radiant let you build wherever you want, so I'd be amazed if an editor actually limits you to that area o_O
hack the editor?
oh wait, would need source.
RMQEngine has that limit removed, too, and is Fitz-based.
One thing to remember with engines that use floats for coordinates is that when you have something very far away from (0 0 0) you can have floating point inaccuracies, or so ISTR. But ask a real engine coder ;-)
#10582 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2010/12/04 00:53:21
i don't think floating point inaccuracies will be a problem unless you are very far from the origin. Regular quake protocol precision is 1/8th of a unit. To reach precisions that low in floating point, you would need to be about 1 million units from the origin.
(reasoning: 23 bits devoted to the floating point value, 3 bits are fractional part if we want 1/8th unit precision, leaving 20 bits, 2^20 is about 1 million.)
GTKRadiant Ubuntu Crash Fixed
#10583 posted by gb [89.27.214.212] on 2010/12/04 03:21:05
Would anyone know off hand why Gtkradiant wont work under Ubuntu 10.04? When I run it I get this error:
Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
(process:1680): Gdk-CRITICAL (recursed) **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
aborting...
Aborted
Any ideas?
Also can anyone suggest any alternative map editors? (Ideally one that will run under Linux.)
Cheers!
This is the solution:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.p...
Compile Radiant manually after doing an SVN checkout.
Find the file in the sourcecode and switch these two lines around in a text editor. Then build.
There is a file COMPILING included with Radiant that lists the dependencies and tells you how to use scons to build it.
It works now (switched to ubuntu recently and had same problem).
My Radiant is hack'd anyway, so this wasn't a big problem.
#10584 posted by gb [89.27.214.212] on 2010/12/04 03:35:04
and the explanation: It seems like a problem with Gnome, possibly a Gnome update b0rked this, not Linux as a whole.
Help With Camera Code !
#10585 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.160.180] on 2010/12/05 15:00:45
I'm still in trouble with creation of a DAMN CAMERA for cutscenes !
A static camera would be enuff for me so I studied info_intermission code from client.qc
..this is my (wannabe)(not working)cam.qc:
// CAMERA BY MIK //
float cam_running;
float cam_exittime;
/*QUAKED info_cam (1 0.5 0.5) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16)
This is the camera point for the intermission.
Use mangle instead of angle, so you can set pitch or roll as well as yaw. 'pitch roll yaw'
*/
void() info_cam =
{
};
/*
============
FindIntermission
Returns the entity to view from
============
*/
entity() Findcam =
{
local entity spot;
// look for info_intermission first
spot = find (world, classname, "info_cam");
if (spot)
return spot;
}
void() Exitcam =
{
// skip any text in deathmatch
if (deathmatch)
{
GotoNextMap ();
return;
}
cam_exittime = time + 1;
cam_running = cam_running + 1;
self.view_ofs = '0 0 22';
}
/*
//
// run some text if at the end of an episode
//
if (cam_running == 2)
{
if (world.model == "maps/e1m7.bsp")
{
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_CDTRACK);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 2);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 3);
if (!cvar("registered"))
{
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_FINALE);
WriteString (MSG_ALL, "As the corpse of ");
}
else
{
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_FINALE);
WriteString (MSG_ALL, "As the corpse of t");
}
return;
*/
/*
============
IntermissionThink
When the player presses attack or jump, change to the next level
============
*/
void() camThink =
{
if (time < cam_exittime)
return;
if (!self.button0 && !self.button1 && !self.button2)
return;
Exitcam ();
};
void() execute_cam =
{
local entity pos;
cam_running = 1;
pos = Findcam ();
other = find (world, classname, "player");
while (other != world)
{
other.view_ofs = '0 0 0';
other.angles = other.v_angle = pos.mangle;
other.fixangle = TRUE; // turn this way immediately
other.nextthink = time + 0.5;
other.takedamage = DAMAGE_NO;
other.solid = SOLID_NOT;
other.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;
other.modelindex = 0;
setorigin (other, pos.origin);
other = find (other, classname, "player");
}
};
void() cam_touch =
{
local entity pos;
if (other.classname != "player")
return;
};
/*QUAKED trigger_cam (0.5 0.5 0.5) ? NO_INTERMISSION
When the player touches this, he gets sent to the map listed in the "map" variable. Unless the NO_INTERMISSION flag is set, the view will go to the info_intermission spot and display stats.
*/
void() trigger_cam =
{
if (!self.target)
objerror ("cam trigger doesn't have target");
InitTrigger ();
self.touch = cam_touch;
};
Well
#10586 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/12/05 15:21:36
It's quite hard to diagnose your code if you don't describe the problem you're having with it, but I'll start with this:
void() cam_touch =
{
local entity pos;
if (other.classname != "player")
return;
};
This is the function that is run when an entity touches the trigger. It returns if that entity is not a player, which is sensible to prevent monsters or rockets setting off the camera. The problem is that this is the end of the function, so it doesn't do anything when a player does touch it.
Before you can start fixing the rest of the code, you need to call execute_cam after that if statement. I hesitated to recommend this though, because you've still got a lot of work to do for a feature that already exists in mods like custents...
Thanks Preach
#10587 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.160.180] on 2010/12/05 15:42:34
Problem is: I put info_cam and trigger_cam entities in my map but when I touch trigger nothin happens !
Do I need to edit other qc files beyond my cam.qc ?
Can you explain me better how much additional work is needed ?
ps: I know custents, zerstorer,... but since I've already successfully added things in my progs I'd really like to insist !
Amazing ! Now My Camera Works (..partially) !
#10588 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.160.180] on 2010/12/05 16:58:30
..With my cam.qc code above I obtained this:
When player touches "trigger_cam" the view moves to "info_cam" (as I wanted) BUT still there's player weapon, crosshair on screen and mouse-look active (I don't want these for a camera view obviously !)
..SoMe HElp ??
Camera Code
#10589 posted by Mike Woodham [86.135.146.129] on 2010/12/05 18:06:23
Some bits here may help (from custents code)
/* This routine short-circuits player turning movement while
in camera mode.
*/
void() look_ahead =
{
self.angles = self.enemy.mangle;
self.fixangle = 1;
self.nextthink = time + 0.01;
};
void() go_camera =
{
// Change the player into a camera
self.classname = "camera";
self.velocity = '0 0 0';
self.view_ofs = '0 0 0';
self.angles = self.enemy.mangle;
self.fixangle = 1; // turn this way immediately
self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;
self.takedamage = DAMAGE_NO;
self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
self.weaponmodel = "";
Yeah
#10590 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/12/05 18:39:00
Mike's code will help with disabling mouselook and the viewmodel. You need to set each player's think function to look_ahead for the duration of the cutscene. Make sure that players cannot attack during a cutscene either - that would be bad in it's own right but also resets their think function so breaking this section of code. Alternatively move the code from look_ahead into PlayerPostThink to be run only during a cutscene (this has the bonuses of allowing player entities other think functions and also working even if the player exceeds 100 frames per server second - which is possible if you start applying slow motion)
The crosshair is not possible to fix in a way that won't annoy some players. You could use stuffcmd to send "crosshair 0" to a player's console, but then if you blindly turn it back on you've reset the variable for players who want the crosshair off normally.
If you use cvar to try and read the setting, you'd run into trouble with players in co-op - cvar reads the server setting instead of the clients. I suppose you could compromise and use that method in single player so the crosshair disappears and is restored, then disable that code path in co-op.
The next problem is that you need to restore the player when the cutscene ends, which the code from info_intermission does not make provision for(since players go to the next map afterwards). This may be some work, or it may be simple depending on what state the player will be in after the cutscene.
I mentioned co-op in the crosshair part above - it's a corner case a lot of people forget about when coding things that affect the player - sometimes there are more than one at once! So you may need to review your code for other places where this assumption might break down. For instance, do you want to trigger the cutscene for all the players when one of them touches the trigger? If not, what does a player who's viewing a cutscene look like to players outside the cutscene, etc...
Oh? Coop ?
#10591 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.160.180] on 2010/12/05 19:12:58
I'm a beginner with qc and my maps are singleplayer only so probably I'll pass on that :(
After cutscenes how can I change level ?
..maybe with stuffcmd's ?
Intermission
#10592 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/12/05 19:28:37
If you want to end the map straight after a cutscene then you've saved yourself lots of work. You can adapt the original intermission code for that - just trigger the level change at a signal from the end of the cutscene rather than when the player presses fire.
Thanks Preach..
#10593 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.163.36] on 2010/12/08 16:01:32
..What kind of changes are needed in qc if I want to restore player position/view after a cutscene ?
Write A List
#10594 posted by Preach [77.98.129.22] on 2010/12/08 20:12:07
You need to run through your code and write a list of everything it changes about the player. So you mentioned position and view angle in your post, add them to the list. viewmodel was reset by the code, so that needs to be included too.
When you have your list, you need to decide which of these things you need to remember the previous setting of, and which you can just recalculate. For instance, you probably can't know where the player used to be standing without storing it in some variable. But you know that the player's viewmodel can be worked out based on the weapon he currently has (stored in .weapon).
For the former category, you need to store the value in another field on the player for the duration of the cutscene - for instance create a new vector field called .prior_origin. Once this is defined, go to the place in your code where you first trigger the cutscene, and store the origin at this point in your new field. Repeat for all the other fields.
Finally, when you end the cutscene you need to restore all of these fields to their pre-cutscene values. One in particular to take care with is the origin - don't set it directly as this will cause bad things to happen in the engine. Instead call
setorigin(self.prior_origin);
which will do things right. For things like the viewmodel, recalculate it based off the player's weapon.
That's probably enough to be getting on with, so come back when that's done and I'll start throwing some more stuff to think about.
I've Studied First Half Of QuakeC Manual By D.Hesprich..
#10595 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.163.47] on 2010/12/09 05:44:22
..problem is I'm not sure on going on with 2nd part !
I'm indeed a better mapper than coder.. eheh
-My first idea was to use Nehahra progs.dat because of fog support, script actors,.. but I dont want people need another mod to play mine.
Question: if I mod for Nehahra what files I have to include in the final ".pak" for people to play it? Nehahra progs only?
You Dont
#10596 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.189] on 2010/12/09 12:37:04
You just say "Nehahra Required", then the person can download Nehahra, install your map, run Nehahra, then run your map :)
You tell them to run Quake with the commandline "quake.exe -game nehahra +map yourawesomemap"
Fog
#10597 posted by ericw [206.75.128.68] on 2010/12/09 19:33:03
You don't need an external progs, just set a key "fog" on worldspawn with the value "density r g b" where the density/r/g/b values are between 0.0 and 1.0. Most modern engines should recognise this.
I don't think anyone will object if you make a Neharah map :-) (e.g., a lot of recent maps require the Quoth expansion pack.)
I Understand..
#10598 posted by Mic Hey [151.66.167.99] on 2010/12/10 02:43:24
..but I liked the idea of having my mod requiring nothing else..
-Since my mod is a partial conversion I was thinking of make it standalone(selfinstalling .exe )
But I dont know how to do it.. suggestions ?
Don't
#10599 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2010/12/10 05:48:15
What Jt Said
#10600 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2010/12/10 18:12:33
in all my years of downloading and playing quake mods i have never come across one that required a self-installing exe. it just isn't the done thing. everyone should know how to install it manually from a zip file by now!
if you want to use the nehahra progs you MIGHT be able to get away with just requiring the progs.dat file depending on what features you use. try copying it into its own directory (eg. c:\quake\mymod\progs.dat) and running quake -game mymod, then whenever something like a sound or model is reported as not found, you can move it across from the nehahra dir to yours. but ask mindcrime's permission before distributing it!
Please Help
#10601 posted by delor3 [151.66.162.136] on 2010/12/12 16:33:34
..my idea is to have in my map many different skinned monsters per class (4 or 5 soldiers with different colors, 4 or 5 knights, ..)
Easiest way to achieve this ?
-I'd happily skip the creation of every different skinned monster in qc code(since I want to change only clothes color for each!)
It Id Possible To Do This Using Qc
#10602 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.208.239] on 2010/12/12 16:41:09
You will have to make an mdl with several different skins included, and edit some qc so that you can add a different flag to each differently coloured monster.
Lol - I'm no coder, but a (very) long time ago I managed to make a mod which had painskins in it. inside3d.com will have necessary tutorials :D
Oh Thanks Ricky
#10603 posted by delor3 [151.66.161.90] on 2010/12/12 16:59:15
I know of your fame.. though I haven't played any of yours yet..
actually I've just finished with a giant dvd(8gb) full of whole Quake maps goodness, all sorted by authors(!) that I'm going to play in the ..next years
Back to my question:
yes what you say is right and I'm sure having seen somewhere a patch like that
but I'm trying to stay away from qc afaic :)
Skins
#10604 posted by Mike Woodham [86.181.205.109] on 2010/12/12 17:41:00
As long as you do not want different action (AI) for different skins, just ensure that your mdl has skins and set "skin" "1" (or 2 or 3 or however many you have) from the editor. The default skin is "0".
If you set an incorrect number you will see the monster with a black/cyan patern but it will behave as normal.
There are many standard Quake monsters already out there with several skins per model.
Q3 Editor Under Win 7
#10605 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/12/14 14:10:29
It's been a few years.. Anyway.. What is a good Q3 editor to use under Win 7? A quick serch on google for GTK gave me some limited results.
Thanks
NetRadiant
#10606 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2010/12/15 01:16:39
NetRadiant Shaders
#10607 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/12/15 11:09:23
Awesome! Got the editor now. However, It cannot find the shaders. I get this error when starting editor and flushing shaders.
Parsing shader files from C:/Program Files/Quake III Arena/baseq3/scripts/shaderlist.tx...
Couldn't find 'C:/Program Files/Quake III Arena/baseq3/scripts/shaderlist.tx...
Loaded Texture: "C:/Users/jstenkvist/Desktop/...
Any ideas?
Q1: Triggered Explosions
#10608 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [213.131.104.245] on 2010/12/15 17:09:28
Looking to create some explosion effects around something (ie in thin air). Using Quoth at the moment, and Breakables are nice but I'd like to have explosions without the object in the centre.
Any suggestions?
Info_rubble
#10609 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2010/12/15 17:22:15
or info_notnull
The Imp
#10610 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.73.139] on 2010/12/15 22:30:11
Time dulls the... err...
Anyway, I used the Imp in FMB_BDG and I can see that I made a couple of changes to the code. I can also see that I have got left and right handed throws for the missile launch. Trouble is, I cannot see any frames for a left-handed throw. In addition, I can see a set of 'swoop' frames but no related code.
I guess I have a bastardised imp.qc. Is there a definitive code out there anywhere - I do not know now where the Imp first appeared, or where I got the code from.
Anyone able to give some pointers?
Zealousquake
#10611 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/15 23:10:31
@tzealousquake - the extra mod has exploding barrels and sprite_emmitters, rather a lot of explo experiences.
http://www.quakewiki.net/quake-1/m...
Mike
#10612 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/15 23:26:42
The Imp is from "Marcher" from Kinn, I just found.
I was a little curious, first though Quoth, but then I read your post again.
There's no qc included. Recompile the progs.dat or ask Kinn.
Q3 /map Command
#10613 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2010/12/16 11:26:50
Ok, so the previous question turned out to be a non issue it seems like. I had some problems finding the corrct shaders but moving the Q3 folder from D:\Games to C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\ fixed that.
Now, next problem. And sorry for being a total noob here ;) but I cannot load any level in Q3 that I've compiled. I've also tested the id example levelsl. The compiler creats a .bsp file but I cannot load the level with /map or /devmap command. What am I missing? Again sorruy for the noob question.
#10614 posted by negke [88.70.241.65] on 2010/12/16 11:36:57
Set sv_pure 0 first.
#10615 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.183] on 2010/12/16 13:43:56
Yeah if pure is on then Q3 will only load assets from pk3 files.
iirc was a surprisingly successful anti-cheat thing for quite a while :p
--Explosions--
info_rubble doesn't have an explosion flag. It's cool that you can re-trigger it but it was the explosion sprite I was looking for :E
#10616 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/16 19:02:09
explosions in quoth
there's a hacky way to do them.
add an info_trap with the following keys:
'speed' '1'
'style' '2'
'dmg' '1'
'duration' '0.01'
'noise1' 'weapons/r_exp3.wav'
this creates an exploding grenade with a fuse only 0.01 seconds long (it will explode the next frame).
set 'dmg' higher to create explosion damage and change 'noise1' to any sound you'd like.
further hackery:
create a func_rotating_train and target it at an info_trap like the above. the func_rotating_train will drag the info_trap along and you can retrigger the trap repeatedly creating a trail of explosions, like a falling meteor or something.
MadFox
#10617 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.73.139] on 2010/12/16 20:22:34
Strange. I know I did not rip the code so it must be out there somewhere. I'll dig out my old hard drives, maybe something on those.
Thanks anyway.
Imp
#10618 posted by Mike Woodham [86.161.160.42] on 2010/12/16 21:38:37
I now know that the one with the swoop code comes from Soul of Evil: Indian Summer. But that is radically different to the code I have, and the contained comments suggests it comes from Hexen 2 originally.
I can't believe I wrote all of the code for the one I have as I have my changes notated and I would not have done that if i had written everything else.
Strange. There must be another version out there.
Imp
#10619 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/16 22:19:01
I searched for Hexen and ended up on Inside3D.
There is a site for compiling hcc.qc for Hexen and contains a imp.hc
Although the compiling for hexen is somehow different, it has simmilar ways.
I'm trying for a compatible qc.
here's the link at:
Therefore, we have put up an archive containing only the HexenC files here
http://www.inside3d.com/h2tut/h2st...
Hexen Versus Quake Qc
#10620 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/16 23:59:27
I transcripted the imp.hcc to a imp.qc
For sofar I have no attackmoves, but things like throwing a lavaball isn't that hard.
If you have a left/right throwing attack mdl of the imp, apart from the code, you can copy the right throwing one in Quark4.07 to make a left throwing one.
It's a little tricky to get the jumping up and down. I used the standfunction for fixed, walk frame for rising up, and the run function for fly. I can't make it land. Also things like the swoop and swpend pose are sitemoves that I still can't stand trigger.
#10621 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2010/12/17 01:53:38
There's an imp.qc posting in the beginning of the coding help thread, iirc.
MadFox
#10622 posted by Mike Woodham [86.161.160.42] on 2010/12/17 21:34:22
The imp.qc code was released in the SOE dev kit so unless you really want to re-code everything, might be worth looking it up.
Thanks
#10623 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/18 04:38:01
I didn't want to recode it, just got curious after finding it on hexen2, then the code in hcc. And finally a half quake qc.
Thanks Necros :)
#10624 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.21] on 2010/12/19 13:30:28
Looks like playing with this will be a giggle :E
Zqf
#10625 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/20 01:55:36
i noticed in that test map you posted, you can hear the grenade launching sound before the explosion.
to remove that, set 'noise' to 'misc/null.wav' which is a "silent sound".
#10626 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.21] on 2010/12/20 02:29:49
Ooh, thanks. :)
I've yet to try your trick of attaching it to a rotate train, but will soon.
Please: What Happens If..
#10627 posted by delore [151.66.165.13] on 2010/12/20 03:44:35
..I add worldspawn fog in a map and then a user play it in a no-fog engine ?
or much better if a user play it also adding a 2nd fog from options/menu in engines such TomazQuake/Telejano ??
Tell Them In The Readme Not To
#10628 posted by jt_ [68.40.117.103] on 2010/12/20 04:58:18
#10629 posted by gb [89.27.244.62] on 2010/12/20 09:59:15
In the first case, nothing will happen.
For the second case, ask Tomaz or Tei.
Glass And Windows
#10630 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.7] on 2010/12/23 17:38:36
So, please correct me if I'm wrong:
To create a window you use a blank water texture and something like a quoth command trigger to set it to the right alpha yeah?
A few little questions:
1 Looking for a wad that has a blank texture like that in it :p
2 What's the performance hit for having a large surface like this? Thinking of having two large rooms which have a huge glass wall between them.
There Is No Performance Hit
#10631 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/23 18:22:02
None whatsoever! Not by modern standards.
As for a good texture, well you could try looking in some .bsp's. You just open the .bsp in TexMex and you can export it to .wad. I think there must be one in Than's last map ;)
http://than.quaddicted.com/files/a...
http://http://than.quaddicted.com/
Spirit: There doesn't seem to be a link too this in Quaddicted's SP maps list.
Also
#10632 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/23 18:29:25
To make a window you make a normal waterbrush, and you set r_wateralpha to be 1. And on top of the brush (to make the window solid) you make another brush, which you then make into a func_wall. And you give the func_wall the texture called "skip". Doesn't matter what the texture looks like (but there must be a texture in your wad called "skip") and then you have to run the tool "newskip.exe" after compiling ("newskip mapname" in cmd).
Some modern engines support alpha on func_walls. I believe the key is "alpha" the value represents how transparent you want the func to be from 0 to 1.
The first version works in any engine which supports wateralpha, and you need the info_command entity to make the water transparent.
#10633 posted by gb [89.27.208.27] on 2010/12/24 12:27:29
I think most modern engines support alpha, actually. Including Fitzquake.
Some even support alpha on entities, ie monsters etc.
I use some of the window textures from Quake 2.
#10634 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.58] on 2010/12/24 14:35:23
hmm, okay, so I was almost there :)
Question for people using Quoth: is there a way to use triggered sounds but not make them loop? or to kill them after looping for a certain period? Retriggering or killtargetting doesn't seem to stop them playing once they've started :p
#10635 posted by Spirit [80.171.7.232] on 2010/12/24 15:02:10
The looping is a feature of the actual sound file (from what I know). People use some ancient version of Goldwave to toggle the looping flag if they want it.
#10636 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2010/12/24 15:54:23
Dang, okay :( thanks.
ZealousQuakeFan
#10637 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2010/12/24 17:38:19
you can still edit the .wav sound and remove the loop markers.. then it will be one shot playing ;)
#10638 posted by [78.54.91.148] on 2010/12/25 15:27:48
Or killtarget it before it reaches the loop position.
#10639 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2010/12/25 17:06:35
I wanted to get it to start up, loop a few times then stop. guess I'll have to look into removing the flag then manually loop it with relays.
ZQF
#10640 posted by Mike Woodham [86.173.232.171] on 2010/12/25 19:42:45
How are you triggering your sounds? If you are using qc just trigger the null.wav on the same channel when you want the sound to stop.
#10641 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/25 20:04:59
I wanted to get it to start up, loop a few times then stop.
play_sound_triggered
use the 'toggle' flag
'wait' to length of the soundfile to loop
no need to set 'impulse', with the toggle flag on, impulse defaults to 7.
set up target/targetname
when you fire the play_sound_triggered, it will play the sound repeatedly until you trigger it again.
if the sound loops on it's own, set 'wait' to 999999 to retain toggle functionality.
Help!?!?
#10642 posted by ThatOneGuy [75.23.247.223] on 2010/12/25 21:13:51
Ok so Ive been using worldcraft mapping for a few months, on and off for a little mod im working on. Now bare with me, im not a huge mapper or anything so this may be some really easy fix that I dont know about but here goes: I power up worldcraft and all is normal like usual, I start mapping for a good 3 hours, and then I try to compile my map. Now I left the room for a little because I know that the map takes a little bit to export. But I come back, and it says in the command line:
* Could not execute the command:
"C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\qbsp2.exe" "C:\Users\nick\Desktop\game\g...
* Windows gave the error message:
"The operation completed successfully."
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\quaketools\vis.ex...
** Parameters: "C:\Users\nick\Desktop\game\g...
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Users\nick\Desktop\game\game\ne... No such file or directory
Elapsed time : 0:00
** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\quaketools\light....
** Parameters: "C:\Users\nick\Desktop\game\g...
----- Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Users\nick\Desktop\game\game\ne... No such file or directory
Now I cant compile any map, Ive re-installed wc + Bengt Jardup's quake tools a million times, but it still wont work =[. Has anyone gotten this before?
Yeah
#10643 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/26 00:07:15
Its just the WC compiling GUI (the process window) seems to have a problem with moving the files around.
The solution:
1 (not vital but it helps) Use a windows command prompt to run the compiling tools. The WC process window will freeze sometimes, even if the tool is still running in the background. A windows command prompt is what the tools are designed for.
2 (will fix your prob.) Put all of your tools, all of your .rmf files and all of your .map files and EVERYTHING in c:\quake\id1\maps.
HTH
This Might Be Stating The Obvious But
#10644 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/26 00:10:49
Windows command prompt:
start > programs > accessories > Command Prompt
The type:
CD c:\quake\id1\maps
Then you can run your tool, i.e.
qbsp yourmap
then
vis -fast yourmap
then
light -extra yourmap
Also, use this QBSP tool, it is by far the best:
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/tx...
Put
#10645 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/26 00:11:57
All of your tools in the c:\quake\id1\maps directory first
(txqbsp.exe, vis.exe, light.exe)
#10646 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2010/12/26 01:14:40
yeah the way WC acts like it's crashed when compiling through it's interface is pretty annoying, but when constructing certain areas I find the cordon function pretty useful, and I hop map versions a lot especially when planning trigger sequences and such, so I still use it a lot, but never for full compiles.
myself I have WC using tools inside a worldcraft/quaketools folder, and a seperate clean copy of quake on c:\ (no mods/maps other than my own and only one exe). Seems to be fine with this :E
For proper compiles Necro's utility is cool imo :)
#10647 posted by ThatOneGuy [75.23.247.223] on 2010/12/26 03:31:05
I tried to put all my tools and map files into the maps folder, didnt work. then I tried command prompt, didnt work. Should I just try Necro's utility then?
Play_sound_triggered
#10648 posted by ericw [161.184.107.29] on 2010/12/26 04:31:29
is the 'toggle' flag a spawnflag? I tried setting a key/value of 'toggle' '1' and it didn't do anything. (each triggering of the play_sound_triggered causes another instance of the loop to start).
#10649 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2010/12/26 08:42:38
yeah, 'flag' is spawnflags (not 'flags', which is also a var, but used internally by qc).
as for the compiling gui, it's just to save you time from making batch files.
Er
#10650 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/26 15:39:40
Will you please explain exactly how you tried to use a command prompt? There is no way that a command prompt wouldn't work if you are using it properly.
We need to start off with the basics here I think.
Copy your .map file into a new directory on your c: called "qbsp".
Put your TxQbsp.exe in the same folder.
Open a command prompt (click start, then type cmd in the search/run bar at the bottom of the start menu).
Then type in the command prompt:
cd c:\qbsp
then type
txqbsp yourmap
Then report back here as to what happens.
#10651 posted by [75.23.247.223] on 2010/12/27 02:24:42
everytime I put in:
...desktop\maps\txqbsp.exe test
It says, there was an error.
There error says that there is no such file or directory.
#10652 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/27 03:41:26
when the test.map (as you called it) is in the same directory as txqbsp is, it should work.
when you try to test qbsp with the command "test" it won't.
Just giving the qbsp command without a map of string compiles a qbsp_log.txt with all possible commands one can give.
So if there's an error or file mising at least you can try to see if qbsp compiles a log.txt
then you can try to search for your map and see if it is there in thre same directory.
As winxp and higher don't use dos commands anymore, you might try to make a sublink to qbsp file, and there specify your argues like
program > txqbsp your map.
#10653 posted by [75.23.247.223] on 2010/12/27 05:08:18
now its telling me "No world brushes on line 1" though im hoping thats just the map problem now?? Sorry for being so bad at this kinda stuff but im new to it
Well Dont
#10654 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2010/12/27 05:09:19
Do what I tell you! Put it in either c:\quake\id1\maps
or
c:\qbsp\
and then type either
cd c:\quake\id1\maps
or
cd c:\qbsp\
and then we'll talk
#10655 posted by [75.23.247.223] on 2010/12/27 06:19:14
I got it working. It turns out I guess the compiler I was using was screwed up or something, but I replaced it with the one you gave me Ricky, thanks guys.
You're Welcome
#10656 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2010/12/27 06:58:06
you heard the boss.
do what he tells you.
and be glad he didn't gave you qmap.
Hah!
Snow Textures
#10657 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/01 06:21:38
any wads besides rune.wad that have any?
Burmal Quest, I Have Some Hexen Snow Textures
#10658 posted by jt_ [174.252.248.158] on 2011/01/01 07:46:34
You'll have to use texmex to get the burmal quest textures afaik. I'm working on some custom snow textures, based on some hexen 'german medieval' textures.
#10659 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/01 08:10:27
i'll have to look over hexen textures i guess, i didn't remember there were any. thanks!
looking at the screen, that looks like the hexen textures right?
don't really tile all that well, do they? :S
will have to experiment.
...
#10660 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/01 08:10:58
looking at the screen
referring to the screenshot of brumal quest (alk15) on quaddicted.
#10661 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2011/01/01 10:06:47
Daikantana has good snowfiles. I can remember there was a daikantana.wad on quaddicted.
Actually
#10662 posted by JPL [93.14.124.49] on 2011/01/01 11:11:15
There are 4 daikatan texture set, one per episode.
You will need DKT3.wad for snowy texture ;)
Thanks!
#10663 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/01 18:48:43
forgot alll about dkt! :D
Osnow.wad
#10664 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/01 22:47:06
ogro + snow
it was in a dm map a while back. long while back actually. i can't remember for the life of me who it was by or what it was called though :(
There Are Some In Here:
#10665 posted by RickyT23 [82.26.158.151] on 2011/01/01 22:53:31
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/clo...
Found It!
#10666 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/01 23:05:12
http://mpqarchive.pauked.com/index...
great map btw
#10667 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/02 00:54:36
looks like that map was made for glquake clients... fullbrights on the snow kind of ruin the look now. :P
still, not too hard to palette swap a few pixels around. thanks :)
Rj
#10668 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/01/02 00:58:57
Still need those Ogro textures fixed for fullbrights?
Ooh
#10669 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/02 01:31:57
yes please! do you have them or need sending?
Send Me The Ones You Need Fixed
#10670 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/01/02 12:31:12
and I'll give them a try.
Rotating Entities Again Again
#10671 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/04 01:14:30
Cause they're everyone's favourite. Hipnotic ones of course.
So I'm trying to trap the player in what is essentially a rectangular room that's rotating on a point at one end, and after a lot of fiddling I've got it down to just having a lot of narrow movewalls. The problem is it works for the longer walls sections, but if they run all the way to the end (furthest from the point of rotation) they easily push the blocks out of the way and fall out. Any thoughts? :E
#10672 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/04 01:28:04
hmm okay I've done a bit more investigating, and it seems like the problem is corners. As soon as the player is pressing on two walls on opposite sides they push them apart... guess I'll have to rethink this sequence :E
#10673 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/04 02:01:47
in my experience, it's best to stay away from what you're describing because func_movewalls are just not that reliable when implemented that way.
as you've noticed, if two movewalls are pushing the player, the collision can't be resolved properly which allows the player to sort of wiggle through between them.
the best you can do is to make them insta-kill, either with straight up high damage or setting the movewalls to damage on touch rather than block.
#10674 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/04 02:19:23
Yeah I'll have to just bin the sequence, or rather, use it later when I can just place it over lava so there is no need for walls anyway. With the area it's set I can't really just kill the player if they touch it :(
Oh well, the section should be fun as it is anyway :E
Uh
#10675 posted by ijed [190.22.19.118] on 2011/01/08 14:28:12
There is a way of doing it without movewalls. Never used it myself (yet), but;
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
Scroll down. You'll need to do some legwork and use a custom progs though. RMQ will work, but the gameplay changes maybe aren't what you're after.
What you're describing sounds like the opening bit of The Pit and the Pendulum...
Using Quoth...
#10676 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/09 02:30:49
...so can't really use any different progs.
I'm over it now though, it's just another thing to add to the 'do in a later map' pile, which is getting pretty big now :E
Messages In Fitzquake
#10677 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/09 16:00:32
Just trying out different engines at the moment, and Fitzquake throws up a fair list of exceeded warning messages when loading my current project. Nothing is crashing or glitching, but I'm curious as to what a couple of them are:
marksurfaces
signon buffer
Signon Buffer
#10678 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/01/09 16:31:59
I'll answer the latter:
The signon buffer is the first real message message that gets sent to the client. It tells the client the initial state of the world, which means it must contain all of the static entities in the world. It also contains a list of all the visible entities that exist once worldspawn has been run.
The most common reason that people exceed the signon buffer is adding too many static entities to their map. So getting rid of some is one way to fix this issue for old engines. For other trick I'm going to be lazy and refer you to an old post I made:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Have fun...
#10679 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.81] on 2011/01/09 17:08:40
hmm, cheers. Doesn't sound like something I'll worry about too much :)
Also have to giggle at myself. Map is full of trigger relays, at lot of which I could bin... cough I forgot Quoth allows multiple targets cough
Marksurfaces
#10680 posted by RickyT23 [86.31.184.198] on 2011/01/09 18:01:20
It means the amount of triangles in the mesh of the world model. Including bmodels. You can go up to 32767 before you break the limit. You can actually go slightly over this limit without breaking older engines, but only by a very few.
Bmodel Skirting
#10681 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/01/09 19:20:44
If you do want to overcome the marksurfaces limit, and you would be under the limit without the bmodels in your map, I have an idea which I have not yet tested (I don't have a large enough map to try it out on).
The idea is to move the bmodels into external files. You'd need some way to create func_ entities which can have external models, which is a very simple QC job if the mod you're using doesn't support it. The hardest part is probably making sure the new models are properly aligned with the position of their original counterparts.
I admitted that I haven't tested this as a way of getting round the marksurface warning. The uncertainty I have is whether marksurfaces are truly limited per bsp file, or whether they are actually a global resource in the engine which cannot be exceeded by the sum total of all bsp models loaded. So if you try it then report back!
#10682 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/09 19:33:53
well, it would definitely help with clipnodes. but external bsp models like that would only be helpful for rotaters since they'd loose their collision. :(
of course, you could just clip the areas.
Solid Foods
#10683 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/01/09 20:54:57
External BSP models work fine as long as you make sure the corresponding entity is also set SOLID_BSP. It takes more effort to light them correctly though...
External Lightmaps
#10684 posted by negke [88.70.248.171] on 2011/01/09 21:53:36
In Q3 you can extract the lightmap and insert it into a bsp, so if the Q1 tools had a similar feature, it would be good here. But, of course, seeing how often external bsp models are actually being used in Quake, it would be a wasted effort.
#10685 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/09 23:22:24
External BSP models work fine as long as you make sure the corresponding entity is also set SOLID_BSP. It takes more effort to light them correctly though...
ORLY?? shit... i think i may try that out then!
Marksurfaces
#10686 posted by MadFox [84.26.187.83] on 2011/01/09 23:25:14
The last map I made was struggling with these marksurface error.
When I really try to understand what was happening, I rejected the subject, because my small brains couldn't get where it's at.
Sometimes I could add entities at the 32767 limit, and sometimes changing b_models into sprites (which lowered the marksurfaces) added the marksurface_limit error.
So if you look for a maxlimit brush map, take venividifuzi.
Question
#10687 posted by Tronyn [205.200.202.157] on 2011/01/10 13:57:13
is there a built-in way to do weather effects (ie rain, snow, etc) in modern engines, that's cross-engine (ie if it works in one it'll work in another)?
#10688 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.203] on 2011/01/10 14:53:24
Nothing that looks remotely acceptable. Zerstorer had some ugly qc rain or was it nehahra?
Darkplaces has gorgeous effects which you can try eg with dpmod. Tomazquake and its derivates have good effects.
Func_emitter From Extras
#10689 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/10 18:33:09
at least i think it's from extras (someone else may have to provide the link). it's in the remakequake progs anyway.. all you need is a little raindrop or snowflake mdl and you can make it fall pretty much however you want and control the density too
one thing rmq added was an 'alpha' field to allow transparency, which makes for better rain. i'm not sure whether that's cross-engine though
Or I Could Provide It
#10690 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/10 18:36:31
http://quake.chaoticbox.com/downlo...
check the docs for how it works :)
#10691 posted by gb [89.27.221.0] on 2011/01/10 22:59:47
RMQ has partice rain I think, just not used in maps yet. The emitter method for rain is probably not the best one. Most people don't get the raindrops right.
As for "every engine supports it", well that's always the problem. The emitters are qc, so that'd work.
So Quoth Command Triggers Can Fire Saves
#10692 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.96] on 2011/01/11 11:29:46
...do people have any strong opinions about having forced quicksaves like checkpoints?
My map is pretty much linear so it's not a problem regarding saving at a bad moment (also avoiding triggering when the player is balancing on a platform or in the middle of running and gunning), but on the other hand I'd like to keep options open for making something more open ended.
Thoughts?
#10693 posted by negke [88.70.237.130] on 2011/01/11 11:36:13
If you think it's necessary, do it. But only in key positions, not in every room. And make sure to use a unique name for the autosave, e.g. the map name. If you want to keep options open, you could make the autosaves button-operated. Though then it wouldn't be much different from regular quicksaving.
Yeah
#10694 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.189] on 2011/01/11 12:16:59
I think it is nice to put a *couple* of savepoints in a map nowadays. As maps get bigger people are less liklely to find the willpower to start a level over from scratch if they died and forgot to save.
#10695 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.96] on 2011/01/11 12:23:26
hmm, I was planning on fairly regular, since the map's combat is fairly nicely broken up. There are plenty of Half-Life style moments of just moving to the next area...
#10696 posted by gb [89.27.245.171] on 2011/01/11 17:01:34
I tend to forget to quicksave and then I curse when the game has no checkpoints. Then I quit the game out of frustration.
Checkpoints are a good thing. Use them in a sane way and I doubt players will come to your house with torches.
Yeah
#10697 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/11 21:03:32
We've got them. A quicksave is also created on map load, which is very useful.
I'm placing them now in one level, and as a rule of thumb I'd suggest after every key door in a medium sized map to be a decent checkpoint.
For big maps maybe picking up a key or other pertinent moment when there aren't enemies or traps around.
Random idea - in a tech map you could add computers with a button on them throughout - whenever the player presses the button it quicksaves.
In terms of good idea or not, I don't think anyone is ever going to complain about making the game more accessible / less frustrating to play.
#10698 posted by Spirit [80.171.51.58] on 2011/01/11 21:07:13
Please find a way to make the player not notice them. It is breaking immersion or hinting at "death ahead" otherwise.
Yeah
#10699 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/11 21:24:21
That's why key doors are good.
Spirit++
#10700 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.234.54] on 2011/01/11 21:57:45
Also, before hard fights would be useful.
#10701 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.29] on 2011/01/11 22:15:35
Well it's hard to make the play avoid noticing them, since they will always cause a slight jerk when they fire.
I plan to release a beta soonish so if I've put in to many I'll find out then I guess :)
Suggestion
#10702 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/11 22:46:58
use 'save autosave' and then have your trigger command bind f8 to 'load autosave'. that way it doesn't interfere with standard quake saves.
#10703 posted by gb [89.27.245.171] on 2011/01/11 23:15:26
The saving jerk might be minimize-able.
#10704 posted by gb [89.27.245.171] on 2011/01/11 23:19:30
umm, and about placement, basically make sure the player doesn't have to re-do difficult or time consuming tasks, like a puzzle, a trap gauntlet, a jumping / platforming thingy, or a larger fight.
The #1 reason for frustration is "Oh no, now I have to do all that crap again just to get back to where I was." So after the player did "all that crap", ie beat a challenge, give them a savepoint / checkpoint.
In complex, Half-Lifey maps the checkpoint density is going to be higher than in DOOMish maps, naturally.
Autosave
#10705 posted by ericw [161.184.107.29] on 2011/01/12 00:35:40
Did you guys see my autosave engine patch? It saves when you pick up health (with certain restrictions, like no more frequently than every 30 seconds).
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
I've been playing a lot of maps with it over the past few weeks and it works pretty well; the slight pause is only noticeable on really big maps. I couldn't go back to manual saving again!
Gb
#10706 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.41] on 2011/01/12 08:52:56
The #1 reason for frustration is "Oh no, now I have to do all that crap again just to get back to where I was." So after the player did "all that crap", ie beat a challenge, give them a savepoint / checkpoint.
The #1 reason for frustration is the crap itself. Make good maps, then there is no need for holding the player's hands.
Wrong
#10707 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/01/12 13:53:49
I love czg03, but if I died in the middle without having quicksaved I wouldn't be willing to replay it from the start all over again.
Woo Another Limit Warning Yays!
#10708 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.29] on 2011/01/12 18:02:58
MAX_MAP_NODES
Only came up with it during a compile with a leak, after fixing that it hasn't, but again, curious as to exactly what it's refering to :)
You Might Find This Very Interesting
#10709 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.189] on 2011/01/12 18:07:09
Zealousness.
http://qbism.com/index.php?topic=1...
Written by AguirRe (Bengt Yardrup who wrote TxQBSP and TreeQBSP, and the core of the lighting and vis tools which most of us use) the above linked document contains a lot of explanations for a lot of the errors and warnings.
#10710 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/12 18:54:10
i agree with otp over spirit re: replay frustration. just because something is fun when you first play it through it doesn't mean that being forced to imminently repeat it all will be fun too. and even if it isn't a particularly *fun* section, getting through it the once will probably feel rewarding. erase that reward and then it just becomes frustrating..
so this is a positive development
#10711 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.29] on 2011/01/12 19:19:02
Thanks Ricky :)
Also, I'm finding some ideas where a single map probably isn't enough to fully demonstrate and tutor the player. You want to have a unique sequence, but it may just be impossible to fully equip the player before they go in. This is particularly true if you are making something trap infested.
Although it's bad practice to expect the player to need to repeat something, I think it is unavoidable in many places. It's also a very easy situation to reach if you want to challenge the player. Showing the player exactly what's going to happen and when, AND giving them a really tough challenge (which I want to do for skill 2) is very very difficult.
I think it's an issue for skill 0 and 1 which are the skills I'm most worried about getting wrong. If you don't have thick skin then skill 2 isn't for you period.
#10712 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.29] on 2011/01/12 19:20:34
Plus I happen to think that if you aren't dying at least a bit you aren't *really* being challenged. Thinking how much I died trying to get through the mega hard WADS of Doom 2. You do get a sick satisfaction out of it, even if you did quick save a lot.
Re Rain
#10713 posted by Spirit [80.171.98.185] on 2011/01/13 16:56:20
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/ko...
No actual rain there, I don't really remember why. Anyways, i love the atmosphere of that. Used Quoth and samples from the freesound library iirc.
Spirit
#10714 posted by Vondur [195.218.191.171] on 2011/01/14 09:08:03
nice!
#10715 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/14 20:47:12
that is really really awesome looking (and sounding!) spirit.
i actually remember when you first posted that like... a couple of years ago, and it's still great. it's amazing what a few sounds and flickering lights can do.
Hammer 3,3
#10716 posted by DaZ [78.147.101.68] on 2011/01/15 18:43:44
anyone got a dl link handy? I seem to have lost my installer :P
Also, I just upgraded to an i7 system at Christmas so if anyone has any vis-killing maps they want compiled feel free to throw them my way and I'll throw them at it :)
Quakeone.com/qadapter
#10717 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/01/15 23:28:41
I think it's there.
Thank You!
#10718 posted by DaZ [78.147.101.68] on 2011/01/16 00:11:26
#10719 posted by Berntsen [158.38.87.29] on 2011/01/16 13:41:06
I'm having a really strange and annoying problem with a particular section in my map. The player won't step up the third stair step in the image, even though it's the same height (16 units) as the other steps, but when hugging the wall it works, otherwise the player has to jump up the step. Weird thing is this staircase was copied from another area, and the other one works just fine. I even tried making it from scratch again, deleting the curved walls and trim surrounding it to see if that would fix the problem, but no luck. No thin faces/microbrushes/etc shows up in error searches either.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199...
my brain
Obvious Clipping Issue
#10720 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/01/16 15:03:17
The way the stairs is build certainely create a clip that prevent the player to move forward.
It happens generally at the junction of 2 polygons... It happens sometimes.
What you can do is to add a very tiny clip brush onto the faulty are in order cover the stair and prevent the issue....
You can also check the polygon corner coordinates to check whether it is still on-grid after copy-paste... and correct it if it is not the case...
Armour Missing
#10721 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.25.200] on 2011/01/16 20:52:47
I have some armour resting on a 16 unit wide bar. When I load the map, it is not there and I do not see a 'bonus item fell out of level' message. Is there a minimum amount of 'support' that is required to hold armour in place - I tried a clip brush and that had no effect.
I have a horrible feeling that this is one of those things that everyone else knows about except me!
Spiral Stairs
#10722 posted by ericw [161.184.107.29] on 2011/01/16 21:15:00
Maybe try making the stairs a func_wall, or even making each stair a func_wall? Spiral staircases are pain :-/
Mike
#10723 posted by negke [88.70.86.184] on 2011/01/16 21:35:10
I think the item needs a ground that's at least four units wider than the bbox - 40*40 in this case. No "fell out" warning suggests the armor only falls through the bar and ends up on the floor below. If you don't want to make the bar wider or make it two, you could use one of those self-removing func_walls to make the armor float on the bar.
Ah, More Armour
#10724 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.25.200] on 2011/01/17 00:27:05
And the armour needs at least 32 head-height
#10725 posted by Berntsen [158.38.87.29] on 2011/01/17 07:19:54
@JPL: I understood it was a clipping issue, but I didn't get why it was occuring. As I said, I removed the copied stairs and remade them from scratch (and yes, on grid), removed the brushes surrounding the stairs in case they for some reason caused the issue, but it still didn't work. And it only happened to that particular step, no others. Turning them into func_walls did nothing, so I ended up doing as you said and made a small clip brush in front of the offending brush, and that seemed to do the trick. Still have no idea why it occured in the first place though...
Bernsten
#10726 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/01/17 09:51:49
Glad you found a solution ;)
Mike
#10727 posted by negke [88.70.251.64] on 2011/01/17 10:14:43
All items need a total height of 60 (4 higher than their bbox). So maybe the 16 bar wasn't the problem, just the low ceiling? This my editors that only display the models are counterproductive and the reason so many maps have missing items and stuck monsters.
#10728 posted by negke [88.70.251.64] on 2011/01/17 10:15:14
*This is why
Berntsen
#10729 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/17 13:15:07
Which wall did you have to hug in order to walk up normally?
The fact that you could jump up them makes me think it's not a clipping issue with the geometry in that shot, but with something else intruding into the space.
That the stairs were copied and working elsewhere is suspicious as well.
The clip brush is a slope?
Also, I can't tell from the shot, but it looks like on the right the interesection of the brushes might be off grid. I doubt that'll cause the problem you were having, but its worth bearing in mind that on grid doesn't just mean the corners but also where the edges of brushes cross each other.
#10730 posted by negke [88.70.251.64] on 2011/01/17 13:27:52
I think it's more or less one of QBSP quirks. It doesn't matter if the stairs work somewhere else in the map or anything. Inexplicable clipping at brush edges tends to occur as a becomes more complex maps. Usually at horizontally angled (45°) walls - that's why it's recommended to hug all of such walls or columns once during beta ttesting. Sometimes c/p or remaking the area in question helps as the new brushes are then at the bottom of the .map file. Putting a thin clip wedge at the conflicting spot is the most reliable solution (for sometimes rebuilding the area only makes the clipping issue go away temporarily). You may find that blocking most of the map out with a large brush will make the stairs work fine, but once the full map is compiled again, it'll be back.
Negke
#10731 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.25.200] on 2011/01/17 21:04:00
Yup, you're right. Raised the ceiling and the 16 wide bar is fine. Thanks for the (tee hee) heads-up.
Hrm
#10732 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/18 02:22:51
items could really have used a 'nophysics' flag. most of the time, they will never ever have physics run on them; they could have just been set to movetype_none.
Silent Teleport
#10733 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/18 02:52:27
Quoth entities etc.
Possible to teleport the player but make it completely silent? (Removing the particle effect would be a plus)
Nope
#10734 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/18 08:02:39
#10735 posted by Berntsen [158.38.87.29] on 2011/01/18 09:59:31
@ijed: Could hug both the concave wall on the right and the convex on the left. I as well thought it could be someting other than the stair in question that caused the issue, that's why I tried deleting the step to see if the issue persisted. And nope, as soon as it was gone nothing blocked the player's movement. Again, the error occured even if I remade the step from scratch.
The clip brush is not a slope, here's a picture of how it looks in the editor: http://img339.imageshack.us/img339...
With the intersecting brushes, I take it you mean where the curvy white walls meet? They are in fact on grid, both the corners and the intersection.
@negke: So as the amount of detail in maps increases, so may issues like these? If I block out certain details with completely square clip brushes (such as lightning fixtures or computers dug into a wall) throughout the map, would that help eliminate such errors? I was thinking of doing this after I finished up the entire map's brushwork, but maybe I'll do it earlier.
Also, my map is now fullbright because I haven't bothered sealing it yet, the outside areas have no sky for instance. Could the amount of faces (i.e the ones pointing out towards the void that would otherwise not be rendered when the map is sealed) contribute to the error at hand?
Is That Quark?
#10736 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.64] on 2011/01/18 11:35:39
That looks like Quark. Doesn't that editor use fractional coordinates for brush faces and thus needs its own BSP compiler? Maybe that compiler simply has more bugs than the more evolved versions that we have today?
#10737 posted by Berntsen [158.38.87.29] on 2011/01/18 11:53:00
Yeah, it's Quark. I don't know if it needs to use a different BSP compiler, I use Txqbsp and I've had no other problems than these stairs so far.
Berntsen
#10738 posted by negke [88.70.230.58] on 2011/01/18 12:47:56
The issues may potentially come up, but they really seem to occur quite arbitrarily. Blocking off geometry with clip brushes will not fix them. Sealing the map may. Ultimately, what you did with the extra clip step is the way to go.
Hm
#10739 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/18 14:50:30
Then it seems Negke is on the right track then. I've not come across this type of error before although I use WC.
It's possible that the additional brushwork / faces outside the map are affecting the hull creation process, I spose.
The player is basically a box, so could be that there's just weird collision clipping.
Continuing My Adventures...
#10740 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/19 17:55:45
...into asking about stuff that isn't possible.
Can you spawn monsters with less or more health than normal? Or a possible way to change it once they've spawned...
A further question (much more answerable I assume :p ) is how does Chthon actually work, the entity guides I've found just mention something to do with event_lightning but no details.
#10741 posted by Spirit [80.171.51.238] on 2011/01/19 17:56:35
chck out http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Ooh, Cheers
#10742 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/19 19:10:20
Monsters Spawning With Less Health...
#10743 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/19 19:17:25
trigger_damage them :)
for more health... you can use the armorvalue/armortype hack in post #19 of the thread spirit linked to, or alternatively just a trigger_damage with a negative value)
the chthon question is probably less answerable :P it's messy. i did it once but ballsed if i can remember how; if i had to do it anyway i'd probably just dissect the e1m7 source and work from that
Less Health
#10744 posted by negke [88.70.254.209] on 2011/01/19 19:31:08
= negative armorvalue
It's That Simple?
#10745 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/01/19 19:53:31
Nice.
Someone make a mod where poison works by giving the player negative armor.
Sweet, Thanks Guys :D
#10746 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/19 20:16:55
Got a killable via conventional stuff chthon working. Would still be interested how he's supposed to work however :)
If You're Using Quoth
#10747 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/19 21:41:49
use a trigger_hurt with 'cnt' '1' and set 'dmg' appropriately.
note that players can still hit these triggers too, so you'll have to be careful how you do it.
as for chthon... fuck, if i know, and i've been mapping for quake for like a decade. >_<
Newbie Mapper Having Some Issues
#10748 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/19 22:04:48
Hi. I was told I might get some help here with a mapping issue I have (Quake 1). I've just started and I'm using QuArK. I tried to make a small single player map, but I'm only at one room and a short corridor and I already have two problems. One is a leak I can't find no matter how hard I look, which I "fixed" by encasing the entire map in a giant box for now, but the other is something I don't even understand.
For some reason the wall at the end of the corridor looks like a weird hall of mirrors unless I'm hugging it, in which case, some of the other walls look like that. This only happens if I compile the map with lights and vis. If I do it without, it looks like ass, but it'll look like textured ass at least. Here's the map, could someone take a look at it for me and tell me what I did wrong and how I could fix it?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9c3m...
#10749 posted by negke [88.70.254.209] on 2011/01/19 22:18:39
A common issue with Quark is its habit of using float coordinates which often results in tiny leak or portal errors (the HOM). I'm not familiar with the editor unlike some other people here, but there should be an option to turn it off and/or to snap all brushes the integer grid.
If you get a leak, QBSP will create a .pts files. Put it in id1/maps along with your .bsp, load the map and type "pointfile" in the console. There will be a dotted line that'll help you determine where the leak is (search for the spot where it goes outside).
You'll also want to use the compiling tools from here (qbsp, light and vis) - the ones that come with Quark are probably outdated.
Dang
#10750 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/19 22:19:50
I didn't realise Chthon would be quite such a big deal :E nm using him with conventional weapons is fine, or I can fake it by just giving him a squillion health. Shame he auto-spawns at the start really :)
Would love to get the hack Preach mentions about targetting monsters to attack each other, but doesn't seem to want to play ball :E
Solarn
#10751 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/01/19 22:22:06
In order to solve your HOM issue, you need to read this: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/too...
Solarn
#10752 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/19 22:33:38
I would recommend rtying another editor. If Worldcraft 3.3 works on your rig, you would probably be sorted. Then theres BSP editor which is meant to be quite current. And some people have good look with Radiant.
ZQF
#10753 posted by negke [88.70.254.209] on 2011/01/19 22:34:43
What are you trying to do anyway? I thought by conventional you meant the lightning method.
The hacked shootable Chthon needs to spawn on map start, yeah. You can delay it by giving him a higher nextthink value, but that's not really helping. However, you can do it like I did in my Chthon map and simply have him spawn in a remote room. Then teleport him into place when the player reaches the area.
#10754 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/19 23:06:37
Just playing around with monsters and decided to try making something cool using Chthon, but I couldn't get him to die the iD way.
By conventional I meant using conventional player damage :)
Having a little play using chthon like a large normally enemy like the lava giants in Serious Sam :)
#10755 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/01/19 23:16:10
all id maps have their sources released, look at the e1m7 source to see how the entities are set up. (i think they are on quaddicted, or maybe quaketastic, or at least rome.ro)
RickyT23
#10756 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/19 23:36:44
I've downloaded Worldcraft and BSP, but I haven't been able to do anything but create rectangular brushes in either so far. I can't figure out the controls.
Solarn
#10757 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/20 00:04:30
OK, well I had a peek at Youtube and found this video showing how to make really simple geometry in Hammer (which is almost identical to WC3.3 which I use) and it does show the clipping tool and the vertex manipulation tool, as well as how to hollow a cube (which i tend not to do)
For geometry all you really need is the clip tool and the vertex tool, as well as knowing how to use the brush tool (to make a solid brush). The great thing about Worldcraft is that in version 3.3 the texture lock will work properly if you enable it, which can really save time.
Oops (forgot To Put The Link In The Post)
#10758 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/20 00:04:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iF...
RickyT23
#10759 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/20 00:57:33
Oh god, that guy rambles so much. But it was informative when he finally got around to explaining things. I guess it makes sense. In QuArK, all that stuff is done by simply clicking with the mouse, so I was confused when it needed separate modes in Worldcraft.
#10760 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/01/20 01:02:43
Oh god, that guy rambles so much
the main reason i wish video tutorials would die in a fire. :\
most of the people who do them know what they are doing but they usually have annoying voices or can't seem to string more than 3 words together without saying 'um' or somesuch, or their mics suck or all kinds of things that make them irritating.
i remember having to put up with tons of that when learning D3.
You Can Cycle Modes
#10761 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/20 02:46:56
by clicking the buttons in the toolbar (i.e. the ertex button, the clipping button), rather than learning the key combos. I click the buttons ;)
And yeah, the guy rambles, I just picked the vid from random really, just wanted to find one which explained the vertex and clipping tools :)
There's A Tutorial On Using Wc
#10762 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/01/20 03:42:51
At the qadapter page. http://quakeone.com/qadapter
Well
#10763 posted by Ankh [82.145.210.169] on 2011/01/20 07:14:44
there is a great tutorial about WC included with the program. Just klick help or so.
#10764 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/20 16:27:45
Then teleport him into place when the player reaches the area.
Actually that is something I don't know how to do, trigger teleporters like that.
Eh?
#10765 posted by negke [88.70.251.103] on 2011/01/20 16:45:34
You just place him (or any other monster for that matter) inside a regular trigger_teleport and have a trigger_once or any other entity target it to set it off.
Yep
#10766 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/20 16:49:14
Teleporters start off if given a targetname.
Make Your Teleport Brush
#10767 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.189] on 2011/01/20 16:53:31
Tie it to the entity "trigger_teleport".
Position your monster inside the trigger_teleport.
Give the trigger_teleport a key "target" with the value "yourNastyAmbush"
Give it another key "targetname" with the value "triggerYourNastyAmbush"
Make a trigger_once trigger and put it where you want the player to be when the monster appears.
Give the trigger_once a key "target" with the value "triggerYourNastyAmbush"
Put an entity "info_teleport_destination&qu... where you want the monster to appear, and give it the key "targetname" with the value "yourNastyAmbush".
So now when the player touches the trigger_once, it will fire and trigger the tigger_teleport to send the monster to the info_teleport_destination.
Nne of these entities will be visible in game, except for the monster!
This is the way it is done using original ID progs. If using Quoth you can just give a monster the flag "spawned", and when triggered (when a trigger_once has a key "target" with a value equal to the monster's key "targetname") the monster will appear.
If you noclip outside some of the original Quake maps from id you will notice that there are dark rooms outside the map, and if you go in them you will find they are full of monsters waiting to be teleported into the map.
Ah
#10768 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/01/20 17:04:28
I thought spawn rooms were used slightly different, didn't know teleporters could be targetted like that.
I'm just being dumb again, okay. I should have done more with regular progs :)
#10769 posted by GTKRadiant question [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/20 20:56:36
So yeah, I figured out how to use it, but I can't compile my map with it. What do I need to do to?
#10770 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/20 20:57:00
That was me, I had a brainfart, sorry.
Save To A .map File
#10771 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/20 21:25:11
Run your qbsp, vis and light from a command prompt.
Make dir on c: called "mymap"
Save your .map file there
Put all your tools (TxQbsp.exe, WVis,exe and Light.exe) in the dir.
Load a command prompt (in windows click start, then type in the "run" or "search" bar:
cmd
Press enter.
Command Prompt appears! :)
type:
cd c:\mymap
then type:
txqbsp yourMapName
then type (eg):
vis -fast yourMapName
then type (eg):
light -extra4 yourMapName
Your compiled map would now be in the c:\mymap\ DIR.
Links For Tools (the Best Tools IMO)
#10772 posted by RickyT23 [86.27.19.73] on 2011/01/20 21:28:50
TxQbsp:
http://quaddicted.com/tools/txqbsp...
WVis:
http://quaddicted.com/tools/WVis.z...
Light (Bengt Yardrup version, modified by MH):
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
The Manual Way
#10773 posted by negke [88.70.55.252] on 2011/01/20 21:31:32
The build menu is customizable, but I never bothered with it for Q1. Just do it the oldschool way by opening a command prompt and run the compile tools manually. This way it's also easier to catch warnings and error messages.
And remember to add the texture wad path to the map's worldspawn entity.
Which version are you using anyway?
Hm, I'm A Slow Typer
#10774 posted by negke [88.70.55.252] on 2011/01/20 21:32:18
#10775 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/20 21:38:44
I'm using 1.5.0, since that's the latest version.
Ok (so Am I)
#10776 posted by negke [88.70.55.252] on 2011/01/20 21:46:44
I recommend getting the latest nightly build (2007-04-26) from the SVN then, in case you only took the installer.
This One
#10777 posted by negke [88.70.55.252] on 2011/01/20 21:50:19
http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/fil...
And check out the key shortcuts in the manual. They will make your life A LOT easier.
#10778 posted by Solarn [84.0.251.165] on 2011/01/20 22:06:19
I did. They do make things easier. It's still not as simple to use as QuArK, but on the other hand, it doesn't habitually corrupt a brush every 20 minutes or so. So all in all, it's a good trade-off.
Might Want To Try Netradiant
#10779 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/01/20 22:41:18
It's pretty much just a version of gtkradiant, except that it's actually still being updated.
#10780 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/21 12:50:37
on the other hand, it doesn't habitually corrupt a brush every 20 minutes or so. So all in all, it's a good trade-off.
Thanks for that :)
#10781 posted by gb [89.27.212.150] on 2011/01/22 23:56:06
It's "Jardrup" dammit. Stop raping a good Danish name.
Swedish
#10782 posted by negke [88.70.70.83] on 2011/01/22 23:59:54
Like that Tom Green song...
#10783 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.6.61] on 2011/01/23 13:24:45
sorry
While We're At It
#10784 posted by negke [88.70.243.45] on 2011/01/23 13:42:37
I hate if English-speaking people misspell foreign words with e and i according to their pronounciation, e.g. Weiner or Einstien. Fucking jerks. You hear that, Ritschert?????
Oh Go And Fuck Yourself You
#10785 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.6.61] on 2011/01/23 15:02:07
jumped up european prick, you think I give a fuck if my english isn't good enough for people who havent got anything better to do than take the piss from people who speak the language natively? Atleast my name is pronouncable, Neg-ke?
OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
#10786 posted by negke [88.70.241.29] on 2011/01/23 15:36:15
We shall settle this with a deadly exchange of platitudes in the High Brow thread!!!!
Or maybe not - we might both lose.
Fight!
#10787 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/01/23 16:02:06
I Think I Already Lost
#10788 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.6.61] on 2011/01/23 16:15:50
I cant be bothered. But still, what's wrong with Weiner and Einstein? Is that not how you spell those words?
That's How You Spell Einstein
#10789 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/01/23 16:21:51
Wiener is spelled like <---.
Holy Fack
#10790 posted by SleepwalkR [80.187.106.94] on 2011/01/23 17:15:44
#10791 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.197] on 2011/01/23 17:29:36
Poltregiest kinnduhgarden blitzkrooeek.
Swinehundt!
#10792 posted by generic [67.233.202.67] on 2011/01/23 17:54:26
Bable
#10793 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.214] on 2011/01/23 19:33:38
fish
Just A Pet Peeve
#10794 posted by negke [88.70.226.12] on 2011/01/23 20:15:40
Those are fairly common loan words, so one should expect people to be able to spell them correctly. Oh well.
Neggers
#10795 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.235.113] on 2011/01/23 21:17:53
I agree. But then, I dislike all kinds of spelling and grammar errors, esp. when they are made out of neglect or ignorance. People should take more time writing and re-reading their posts.
Ecially...
#10796 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.197] on 2011/01/23 22:47:12
What I find even worse is (usually) US Americans using abbreviations and acronyms everywhere. Not only is that often obfuscating the actual context but they also don't seem to realise that the world does not revolve around them and that people from other countries (who use the same internet...) might have no clue what they mean.
On that note the auto complete and auto correction on my android phone makes writing even complicated words fun quite fun. Even "ridiculous" which I will never learn to type. Seriously, I use a dictionary every time I write it. Bier let's see what happens is I type really fast and fyi not spellchwvk the result... weeee
#10797 posted by meTch [99.33.194.89] on 2011/01/23 23:48:45
ueh dems poples naught noh how spelt word dems luike ijeeuts
What Now?
#10798 posted by ijed [190.22.111.62] on 2011/01/24 00:34:37
I habitually mispel words with e and i. I also use colloquialisms and make typos. Sometimes I don't even use the spellcheker.
Sometimes, I can't be arsed setting my spellchecker to UK as opposed to US English.
Y de repente puede hablar puro guea.
If you're wanting clear and impeccable use of language then I'd suggest maybe that the internet isn't the best place to go.
Oh, and get over yourself.
#10799 posted by gb [89.27.215.186] on 2011/01/24 07:23:44
Achtung, Polizei! Grammatik bitte!
Yeah I Know
#10800 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.235.113] on 2011/01/24 08:05:35
I'm just saying that I prefer proper spelling and grammar to internet speak. I have nothing against colloquialisms though.
#10801 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.214] on 2011/01/24 15:10:33
you can use ones language
but not ones intention.
Fair Enough
#10802 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/24 15:49:05
I know what you mean - 'w00t lulz aw1sme!' pisses everyone off.
Spirit
#10803 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/01/24 19:14:40
What I find even worse is (usually) US Americans using abbreviations and acronyms everywhere.
at least you can appreciate irony though, right? ;)
#10804 posted by Spirit [80.171.128.79] on 2011/01/24 19:17:11
Haha, ouch. I fell into the same trap as SleepwalkR.
Stopping Rockets
#10805 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.72.33] on 2011/01/29 10:12:23
I see that Clip brushes don't stop rockets - is there any 'invisible' way of stopping them?
Skip Wall
#10806 posted by negke [88.70.55.222] on 2011/01/29 10:43:37
Or that oldschool shootable trigger trick.
How Goes The Map?
#10807 posted by ijed [190.22.84.244] on 2011/01/29 14:13:41
Ijed
#10808 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.72.33] on 2011/01/29 16:57:33
If that question was for me, the additional maps (both) are finished. Just piling in the monsters at the moment and playing with game-play, which I have sort of lost the hang of because I don't play shooters anymore. I am also constanly tweaking lighting as I want it to follow the theme of FMB-BDG - dark and scary. In fact, I will probably release the whole thing again as one package as it did start off as one, interlinked map but at around 20,000 brushes blew apart all known limits.
Going to be skiing for the next couple of weeeks so I suppose 6 - 8 weeks to a tentative, possible, maybe, release date proposal subject to prevarication, willpower and getting sidetracked on other projects.
But if that question wasn't for me, just ignore the above. And remember, mum's the word. Shhh...
Cool
#10809 posted by ijed [190.22.84.244] on 2011/01/29 17:22:19
That's good to hear and don't worry, will keep it under my hat.
Good, uh, skiing.
Negke
#10810 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.72.33] on 2011/01/29 21:11:00
Yeah, skip brushes do the job. Thanks.
Help Needed Please
#10811 posted by delor [151.66.167.179] on 2011/01/30 02:25:07
Hi guys,
1)sword weapon model needed for my mod.. I'm not satisfied with mine:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
maybe some of you can contribute/join the project ?
Sounds Like A Job For MadFox!
#10812 posted by generic [67.233.202.67] on 2011/01/30 15:03:05
Take The One I "did"
#10813 posted by ijed [190.22.33.1] on 2011/01/30 17:13:44
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/...
Sword
#10814 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.214] on 2011/01/30 19:44:25
replace the axe into a sword.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/v_axe...
Madfox
#10815 posted by ijed [190.22.33.1] on 2011/01/30 19:50:34
#10816 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.214] on 2011/01/30 20:01:24
I still have the feel the sword's too high and clean compared to the axe.
At least it's thin enough to keep view.
Yes.. It's Difficult To Balance The Sword Size
#10817 posted by delor [151.66.163.103] on 2011/01/31 05:02:57
if you make it too big it obstructs everything else..
making it small looks pathetic
And the color is another issue.. better avoid the clear white.
Thanks ya all, If I use one of yours I'll be able to concentrate on levels/gameplay cause it's really a big project(at least in my mind)
I'd Make A Sexual Joke Here But
#10818 posted by meTch [99.60.16.238] on 2011/01/31 05:31:10
I think what was implied was intentional.
<ijed>
#10819 posted by delor [151.66.162.64] on 2011/01/31 14:17:26
thank.. but I didn't find your sword..
is it included in Warpspasm ?
Yeah
#10820 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/01/31 14:40:08
Inside pak0 I think. I'm on a 64 bit machine here so don't have Qme installed to check it though. Will post a more direct link tonight.
It's also in Drake if you've got that.
Ramp Jump Issue Under Different Engines
#10821 posted by ShadoW [157.158.178.93] on 2011/02/01 14:22:53
Hi, so I have that small 45 deg rotated ramp. When I use DarkPlaces, I can easily use it to get to RL level, but somehow can't do it with WinQuake or ezquake. I thought there shouldn't be any physics differences between engines, am I right?
http://shadowsdomain.files.wordpre...
#10822 posted by Berntsen [158.38.87.186] on 2011/02/01 17:23:32
There are a few physics differences in DP. Notably, check if "sv_jumpstep" is set to "1". This allows you to go up a step/ledge while you're airborne, which you normally can't do in other engines.
..help With .lmp Files
#10823 posted by Delor3 [151.66.164.28] on 2011/02/06 00:45:29
Hi.. what's the best way to edit .lmp files/gfx.wad ?
I already know adquedit and frikac fimg.. but they have no image editing features to paint
Yeah
#10824 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/02/06 02:29:06
You can't really edit them natively. You need to use one of those tools to covert them to a standard image format like pcx. Then use your most beloved image editor to make the adjustments, and finally convert back when you're done.
#10825 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/02/06 03:36:20
Building a level where the idea is it's abandoned and everything is off, thus no light source other than some moonlight (the player switches the power on later and everything comes on).
With 32-bit colour this works okay. 16-bit colour this just makes everything black with specs of green. There many people who run stuff in 16-bit colour these days, and is it bad form to keep something like this? :E
#10826 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/06 03:37:30
geez, if they have to play in 16bit, i think they're happy they can play quake at all... :S
Dust2..
#10827 posted by ziffon [62.247.128.164] on 2011/02/07 12:11:09
Anyone know how I can get a maya or sketch-up version of dust2 for Counter Strike Source?
Thank Preach
#10828 posted by Del0r [151.66.161.69] on 2011/02/07 14:54:02
..I really want to create a custom hud for my mod.. something that I'd like to see more from Quake mappers
Can I change status bar shape/aspect without messing with C/quakeC ?
No
#10829 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/02/07 17:22:33
FrikaC-FIMG Issue
#10830 posted by Del0r [151.66.160.66] on 2011/02/07 18:20:37
Please I'm (trying) using Fimg for gfx editing
I've created a custom conback.lmp but the program saves it flipped up/down no matter what I do !?
Flip It Then Save It?
#10831 posted by rj [82.13.31.251] on 2011/02/07 18:43:52
n/t
#10832 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/07 19:21:58
it's like... complete lack of problem solving skills.
Re: FrikaC-FIMG Issue
#10833 posted by FrikaC [66.170.5.18] on 2011/02/07 20:54:16
Some source image types are misreported as being flipped by DevIL (origin bottom right), when Fimg attempts to save these files as Quake format it does a flip to correct it. You can try using another souce image type. If you're currently using targa (the one DevIL is most confused about) try converting it to bmp with another tool then saving that directly to lmp. Also, make sure you are using the latest version of fimg -- version 2.0
I'm Using 0192 Ver..
#10834 posted by Del0r [151.66.160.66] on 2011/02/07 22:28:59
..the last version gave me a intialize error
and what is Devil you're talkin 'bout?
Fimg would be a very useful program if only more stable
I spent all afternoon with that flip issue
Yes.. I',ve Solved
#10835 posted by Del0r [151.66.167.196] on 2011/02/08 01:54:50
..with some trial & error messin' with flip/mirror options.. I was obtaining some unexpected results with "save as.." option
Question
#10836 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/02/10 08:52:30
can trigger_hurt be toggled?
No
#10837 posted by ijed [190.22.12.31] on 2011/02/10 11:54:09
But it can be killed.
I think.
Well
#10838 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/10 21:08:04
it can be created and killed. soo *technically* you could call that toggling. but if you wanted to toggle more than once, you're out of luck.
you'd use that info_notnull trick with a bmodel to create a trigger_hurt and then killtarget it again to turn it off again.
#10839 posted by gb [89.27.208.163] on 2011/02/10 23:58:31
Or QC. Pretty sure in Drake or RMQ it could be made toggle-able.
Maybe Toggl-able..
#10840 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/02/11 16:28:07
..in Quoth ?
maybe no... :/
No
#10841 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/11 20:29:15
not without the info_notnull trick.
Yeah
#10842 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/02/12 11:24:34
One of the first things I looked at after the release was was a proper toggle system (for everything), but it's not the kind of thing you'd put into an interim release...
So....
#10843 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/02/12 15:39:50
... when Quoth3 will be released ? ;)
Um
#10844 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/02/12 22:49:03
As soon as Rubicon 2 is...ah no...right after Duke Nukem is...er...
After Rmq?
#10845 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/02/12 23:44:11
Q3BSP????
#10846 posted by GiantCrab [213.100.148.63] on 2011/02/13 02:20:11
Alright, im new here so please accept me.
Now to the point -
Ive heard that the Q3BSP format is better for many reasons comparing to Q1BSP. My intend to use Q3BSPs in darkplaces. Is there a way to convert .map files into Q3BSP? I downloaded Q3map2 but have no idea what commands to use with it or even what it does. Thanks :D
Try This
#10847 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/13 05:22:29
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net...
it says it converts q1 -> q2 but q2 .map format is identical to q3 .map format.
Multi-toggle Hurt Workaround
#10848 posted by negke [88.70.245.68] on 2011/02/14 00:10:56
You could probably place a flat trigger_hurt on the floor (or three units below) and cover it with an invisible (skip) toggle door. Something along these lines.
#10849 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/14 07:58:34
another solution, if you're using quoth, is to make a func_rotate_train with a trigger_hurt as the target (no rotate_entity or func_movewall).
remember, rotating entities will still set relative origin of all non-static entities targetted by it. (remember my wierdo speedmap with the droles attached to the rotating plane).
so you just move your func_rotate_train in and out of position and it will drag the trigger_hurt along with it.
roundabout, but it should work.
WC3.3
#10850 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/19 13:12:19
Is there something you can do to stop the VisGroups list being random?
It wasn't a problem initially but with 40 odd Vis Groups it's getting constantly searching the list. Making the window bigger would also be nicer :(
Guessing not but hey :)
Nah Sorry
#10851 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/02/19 15:14:56
I never had that many visgroups so I dont know! I tend to mostly use that feature when the editor says "WARNING: Too many visible objects", so I hide half of the map and carry on. I know that you CAN use it to really organise your map, but i never really bothered with it that much.
Skybox Rotation
#10852 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/02/20 18:21:48
Is there any good way to make a skybox rotating in order to give the effect that is the center that is moving ?
i.e: I'd like to make a spatial base floating in space... hence my question...
Any idea ?
Impossible
#10853 posted by negke [88.70.232.215] on 2011/02/20 19:37:13
Maybe only in some very hacky way. Like turning the skybox graphics into a large func. Or making a huge animated texture. Fitzquake085 has proper animation on sky-textured funcs, but this still doesn't help.
If your intention is to simulate a space station orbiting around a planet or some stars, you could try cutting out the corresponding bits of the skybox and use them for the rotation while leaving the actual sky black or with stars only.
Negke
#10854 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/02/20 20:07:34
I was rather thinking making the complete skybox rotating... giving the impression this is the space station that is rotating... like a lost stuff in space...
Sounds difficult.... :/
Yeah
#10855 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/20 22:03:33
i don't think that type of effect is possible. i tried for a while to do something like that for the ne_doom map.
anyway, even if you did do it, if your skybox had a sun or some other light source you were trying to simulate with _sunlight settings, they wouldn't match up if the skybox rotated, so it's not a full win, even if you could. :S
Like Q2
#10856 posted by ijed [190.22.22.202] on 2011/02/21 01:39:16
You need engine modification for that AFAIK and yeah, the sunlight wouldn't move.
Necros/ijed
#10857 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/02/21 16:04:53
I agree with the sunlight issue... I just thought about it a little bit late ;)
and even trying to make the complete map rotating except the skybox will not work either, as the gravity will become the issue then... the risk is to fall, except if you play the map with zero gravity... and remains the problem of being able to fly over without issue....
Anyway, I can deal with this... no problem
Thanks a lot for the support ;)
#10858 posted by gb [89.27.202.98] on 2011/02/22 02:24:01
It's possible, but the sunlight would only move with fully dynamic world lighting. Darkplaces etc.
However, Darkplaces + huge open maps = slow motion.
Asd
#10859 posted by asd [116.75.129.216] on 2011/02/24 07:04:38
sad
#10860 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 02:28:55
been playing a lot of q1 episode 4...
there must be over 20 quad damages in that episode but i never seen them in custom Q1SPs.
how come no one hands them out anymore?
Digs05 Has A Couple Quads
#10861 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/02/25 03:09:02
#10862 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 03:17:54
digs05 is an anomaly. to me, the fact that digs05 had quads just shows how weird they are to be present at all.
Lol
#10863 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/02/25 03:24:27
digs05 is probably one of my favourite maps. Damn disappearing pents.
#10864 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/25 03:25:23
It's hard to manage them imo, and possible that different people react to powerups in different ways. The limited duration element makes it such a bitch to plan around, a super weapon like a BFG is much easier to deal with I'd say :E
It's also hard to get a balance between cake walk and impossible when the player has the quad because even shamblers are just creamed by it. You have to throw a lot at the player and assume they will just mow it all down before it manages to gank them.
Having said that, using a quad with the respawning trick works well in an arena fight, you make the quad come back at the start of each wave. Or just make it come back after a few seconds so whilst the player is in that area they essentially have unlimited quad :p
Useless figures time: By my count, Quad + Pent + LG can murder about 40 or so Shamblers before the quad runs out, although my technique might not be perfect :E
#10865 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 03:50:51
Useless figures time: By my count, Quad + Pent + LG can murder about 40 or so Shamblers before the quad runs out, although my technique might not be perfect :E
LG -> 300 dps, 2 seconds to kill a shambler.
quadded is 0.5 seconds a shambler.
30 seconds / 0.5 shamblers is 60 shamblers before the quad runs out.
if they were all in a line or something.
anyway, i was just wondering if it's only because of fear of 'too easy' gameplay or if it's that mappers fear players blasting through too quickly without seeing the map or appreciating the intricate monster ambush they set up.
i'm pretty sure i'm in the latter category. :x
#10866 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/25 03:59:44
Well, I said by my count, but it was more that I just piled a load of shamblers into a room and tried it. You actually run out of ammo really quickly hehe :P
#10867 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/25 04:03:10
Also following your thoughts, the ideal time to put one in is when the player is returning to a previous area, or perhaps even better, specifically backtracking.
You could imagine a player muttering to themselves that they have to backtrack, but then the relief of getting a quad and enjoying the thirty second dash as they mince everything on the way back:P
#10868 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/25 04:05:43
Oh and cause it's currently fashionable to triple post, Tribute ale is really nice. Bottoms up.
Nice Idea
#10869 posted by ijed [190.22.114.75] on 2011/02/25 11:49:33
You could imagine a player muttering to themselves that they have to backtrack, but then the relief of getting a quad and enjoying the thirty second dash as they mince everything on the way back:P
Thought I'd quadpost it :D
Ring Of Invisibility + Quad
#10870 posted by generic [67.233.199.145] on 2011/02/25 13:42:37
You could always fill a room full of baddies, give the player the ring to wander around unnoticed until they could find the quad.
I see the ring being offered less often in maps these days.
Hypothetical Ring Situation
#10871 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/02/25 14:07:17
Give the player the RL, 100 rockets, and a bunch of health and armor. Upon taking the ring, he is teleported to a multi-story maze full of Shamblers, which he must navigate upwards by rocket jumping before the ring wears off - otherwise the player is as good as dead.
Then you can reward him by giving him a Quad + LG.
XD
#10872 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/02/25 15:06:43
I love it! Someone should do that.
#10873 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 20:14:08
it's the damn binary nature of the ring which makes it suck. otp's shambler maze scenario is interesting i guess, but only as a one time gimmick.
or well, maybe a fully stealth map where you have to go from ring to ring before the last one wears out and you get mobbed by millions of monsters or something.
That
#10874 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/02/25 20:55:08
Works, but only with respawning ring points and weaponstrip.
#10875 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 21:42:56
what are you talking about?
the point is that you'd have to make it to the next ring before the last one ran out. basically like an artificial timer.
#10876 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/02/25 22:19:43
tbh if you put in enough enemies to make using a quad to kill all of it your only option you don't have to worry too much about weapon stripping. Your trouble would probably be making sure the player knew to not bother trying to fight at first :)
#10877 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/25 22:37:11
ah ok, he was talking about generic's post.
at that point though, i'd lean more toward a true gimmick method of killing them instead of just a quad. it'd be more dramatic i'd think.
bah, it's just that damn ring. :( doesn't even protect you from voreballs.
Creating A Sun Effect?
#10878 posted by ShoutBoxKyle [213.100.148.63] on 2011/02/25 23:35:23
So, i want a sun effect, resemebling the sun. I use QuArK. Also it would be nice to have a sun without the textures getting white from the light, but still remaining colour like in real life. I need it for my outdoors map:D
You Need A Skybox
#10879 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/02/25 23:55:32
You need to name the skybox images YourNameOfChoicert
YourNameOfChoicelt
YourNameOfChoiceup
YourNameOfChoicedn
YourNameOfChoicebk
YourNameOfChoiceft
Put them in quake\id1\gfx\env
Put a key in your Worldspawn "sky" with the value "YourNameOfChoice"
:)
Necros,
#10880 posted by ijed [190.22.114.75] on 2011/02/26 00:17:35
I was replying to your concept - the rings would respawn, but only in specific places, maybe 29 seconds apart, and the level would be full of, say, Shamblers and the player weaponless.
To allow for exploration and to be less frustrating the rings would respawn, so the player could come back at any time, but would have to find the next ring location without being seen in order to progress.
Ideally getting seen would be a lose condition, unless the player managed to speedrun to the exit (or better yet, the weapon cache).
Hm
#10881 posted by ijed [190.22.114.75] on 2011/02/26 00:18:36
Additional exploration before the weapons cache could be included by having no ammo in the cache, only in the level itself.
Would probably have to destroy all rings once the cache was raided as well.
#10882 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/02/26 00:19:14
Shamblers and the player weaponless
Hence my idea of giving the player RL and full ammo - it'd be useless against the Shamblers anyway.
The Idea
#10883 posted by ijed [190.22.114.75] on 2011/02/26 00:24:57
Is from Ricky's remix map of e4m1 which had the biosuits respawning and all the water as slime.
Could Be
#10884 posted by ijed [190.22.114.75] on 2011/02/26 00:27:32
But it suggest to the player that they can go gung ho. Better to take away all their stuff and leave them crippled - like that level in MaxPayne 1 where you escape from the gangsters, or that Riddick game.
By the time they reach the cache they feel immensely overpowered from being in such a weak starting point.
Downside is the level will have to be relatively small so as not to get frustrating.
#10885 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/02/26 00:33:13
Nobody would try to kill a horde of Shamblers with the RL in Quake, though.
Level size - a speedmap would work (there was a timelimit themed session once), or just as a section in a bigger map.
#10886 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/26 00:37:37
Nobody would try to kill a horde of Shamblers with the RL in Quake, though.
i've often had thoughts like this when making maps, and invariably, there's always someone who does.
sometimes you get lucky and it's your testers. :S
in the case of such an atypical gimmick, i'd be in favour of the heavy-handed approach: take everything away (or provide nothing) so as to leave no question about what you're expected to do.
hl2 intro maps have you running away, ostensibly for your life.
sure, some, maybe even most, players would RP those maps and run away, but you know if they had enough guns and ammo they'd clear out a citadel's worth of metro-cops before deciding to go away.
RL Vs Shamblers
#10887 posted by negke [88.70.239.202] on 2011/02/26 10:56:59
It takes 11 rockets to kill a shambler (three with quad <-fun with enough space) - same amount as 11 DBS shots (=22 shells). The RL is obviously not favorable in close combat because of its splash damage, but for sniping shamblers it's fine, especially if there are other monsters around that can take damage from it too. People seem to be stuck on the notion that shamblers are immune to rocket damage altogether.
Of Course
#10888 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/02/26 12:51:19
But it's still a waste of rockets, that could as well be spent on a bunch of HKnights instead.
Random Sigh
#10889 posted by negke [88.70.242.173] on 2011/02/26 15:19:46
There's mapping for Quake. And then there's mapping for DarkPlaces...
Creating A Sun Effect? #2
#10890 posted by ShoutBoxKyle [213.100.148.63] on 2011/02/26 16:29:47
Well having a skybox does'nt make it so theres a realistic sun that shines. I do use darkplaces.
So if a have a skybox in my darkplaces mod, how would a create a realtistic sun that shines and casts light over the map. I use QuArK!
Also
#10891 posted by ShoutBoxKyle [213.100.148.63] on 2011/02/26 17:05:47
I use real time lighting.
#10892 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/02/26 20:30:48
neg:
There's mapping for Quake. And then there's mapping for DarkPlaces...
?
re: 10890
Well having a skybox does'nt make it so theres a realistic sun that shines. I do use darkplaces.
So if a have a skybox in my darkplaces mod, how would a create a realtistic sun that shines and casts light over the map. I use QuArK!
since you're using darkplaces, put a super long range dynamic light then?
Uh
#10893 posted by ShoutBoxKyle [213.100.148.63] on 2011/02/27 00:22:35
Durr? How would i do that :D
Hurr Im A Durr
#10894 posted by jt_ [174.252.242.71] on 2011/02/27 00:40:10
Vertex Limit
#10895 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/04 01:44:13
people have been mentioning. Does this include all aspects of the map's geometry, or is it just 'solid' geometry and excludes func_wall/func_illusionary?
It Includes Funcs
#10896 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/03/04 02:53:53
You can get past it by making .bsp files and inserting them with an entity. It works for illusionarys. Wait until you get near the limit then make your illusionaries into extrnal .bsp files. The entity will be the center of the external .bsp. I believe that you can use this feature in Quoth. You need to bear in mind for lighting. Unless you want your external .bsps to show as fullbrights in the map, you need to light them, so they need the lights which are casting lights on them to be there in the external .bsp, in the same positions. So it is something you should do towards the end of your cycle.
#10897 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/04 03:07:21
hmm, okay, sounds like this could get painful as you say :p
#10898 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/04 03:41:06
"57774 vertexes"
Fun...:E
I Assume You Are Using Txqbsp As A Compiler
#10899 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/03/04 04:08:51
You might have to start using the command -hilimit if you are not already ;)
#10900 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/04 05:21:05
i'm not sure, but isn't the 65k vertex limit a 'hard' limit, in that, you can't change it without messing with the actual bsp format?
but yeah, vertex limit isn't fun. had to split my current map because of it.
#10901 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/04 14:22:45
Well, my map has an intro with a lot of detail in it, I guess that could be split off without trouble :E
After that it gets very hairy. Removing some of that lovely trim perhaps :(
Split The Map!
#10902 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/03/04 15:04:06
Heh - You Can Squeeze More In
#10903 posted by RickyT23 [86.139.217.189] on 2011/03/04 15:08:15
Trust me. Just keep going, get some details onto the really plain areas, try and work with a lot of illusionaries.
I think that the map is very imaginative and deserves to be done properly. I have faith that you can get a lot more details in. Re-thinking the railings is a good idea though, you could probably get something which looks better and saves on verts (and fixes that short cut issue ;)
Zqf
#10904 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/04 19:19:22
r_showtris 1 is a great way to find problem areas.
#10905 posted by gb [89.27.245.195] on 2011/03/05 10:28:15
new bsp format ++
Rotating Objects Not Lighting Correctly
#10906 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.186.209] on 2011/03/05 21:55:06
I have a rotate_object with two of the brushes at right angles to each other; one lights ok but one does not light at all, and appears black to the player.
I have moved lights closer and lit the floor but it is still black.
Any ideas?
Spinning Through Time And Space
#10907 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/03/06 00:20:35
The problem is that the brushes making up your rotate object are actually moved by the compiler. The compiler measures the offset of the info_rotate entity from the origin, then moves all the brushes that distance in the opposite direction. So from the point of view of the lighting tool your brushes are hovering very close to the origin of the map (the origin of the map aligns with your chosen centre of rotation).
In your case I think what must be happening is that there are lights near enough to the origin to light one of the brushes but not the other. It's a little bit like toggling the flag on doors that sets whether they are lit in the open or closed position.
So there are two options available. One is to bear this restriction in mind and modify your map to account for this. You might be able to displace the entire map such that the lighting state around the origin matches the lighting you wish to have on your brushes. Or you may be able to displace the map so the origin is in the void, and you can set up a special room to light the rotate_object correctly.
The other option I can think of is to create the rotate_object models as separate bsp files, with all world brushes and no info_rotate. Instead, you position the world brushes so that their centre of rotation is at the world origin in this new map file. This allows you to light the entity entirely independent of the rest of the map. You then modify the rotate_object qc to precache and set an external model, and finally add a point entity rotate_object at the current origin of the info_rotate, with the corresponding external model set.
Whether the second method is more effort than the first depends on how fiddly it would be to pull off the first way...
My Head Is Spinning, If Nothing Else
#10908 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.186.209] on 2011/03/06 01:23:36
Thanks Preach.
OK. After playing around this is what I have:-
- the origin is in the void and the map is completely sealed
- there are no lights near the origin
- if I remove the existing lights from around the rotate object, the object is unlit in game
- I have now set up a room around the origin and lit it with eight lights (each corner top and bottom)
- with the original lighting back in, there is still one piece unlit
- if I remove the lights from around the rotate_object again, and leave the lit room around the origin, the object is still unlit
Due to the size of the map, moving the whole map to get the object to the origin is not practicable. The centre of the rotate_object is @ -2056 3840 748
I'll post some screen shots later - game and editor.
#10909 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/06 01:23:38
preach, are you sure of that? that doesn't really make sense to me at all. rotate_xxx entities are supposed to be lit where they are in the editor. if you make a map with two rooms, one room that is on the origin and is fully lit and a second with a rotater that is completely dark, the rotater should be dark as well.
#10910 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/06 01:47:32
In my experience Necros is right. I have few large rotate objects and I created special isolated rooms to put them in to light them up.
http://www.zealousquakefan.com/wp-...
(I wouldn't make the texture sky now I'm using a skylight :p )
Texturing is different, that does involve it mis-aligning them due to moving to the map origin :(
Texturing
#10911 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/03/06 02:23:57
Sorry, I could be wrong about the lighting, I thought that it would be affected in the same way as the texturing is. The second way of fixing it would still work in this case, you would have no problems with texturing or lighting - just a possible headache getting the QC to support it (and maybe a logistics problem of spreading the map information over more than one file).
On Investigation
#10912 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/03/06 03:06:12
I have mocked up a simple level to test this, and have come to the conclusion that the light tools are all unreliable when it comes to lighting rotate_objects. Necros is right that rotate_objects are affected by nearby lights, but I believe the code contains some kind of bug. My test map contains a brush entity whose lighting can be changed by toggling its classname from rotate_object to func_wall. In func_wall mode the lighting is identical to the world brush lighting, for rotate_object it looks off.
What is particularly worrying about this situation is that in Fitzquake some of the incorrect lighting is showing up as coloured even though there is no .lit file for the map. This seems to indicate a memory offset error - the light program is setting the pointer to the lightmap data incorrectly and so the lighting appears offset - and in the edge case escape the lightmap data segment completely to read random memory instead.
This is supported by replicating the coloured light effect - which can only occur on the last brush entity in the map, and then adding a func_wall to the map. Compiling with the func_wall added makes the colours go (although the lightmap is still incorrectly shaded), and then removing it restores colour again. All of this is consistent with a bug setting the lightmap offset too high for these rotate_entity objects - I assume that the lightmaps are stored in ascending order in the bsp.
I've never really looked into the source code for the quake compiling tools, so I might not be the best person to actually nail this bug. But if anyone thinks they could, I'd be happy to send them the maps that reproduce the problem in the way described above.
Fucking Hell
#10913 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/03/06 04:55:12
that is all
..a Question Not Too Smart
#10914 posted by mach5 [151.66.162.123] on 2011/03/06 10:41:42
Hi folks, I got this eternal doubt:
-If I create a Q1 sp episode changing all textures/sounds may I charge for money(a small fee) those who download from my website ?
-I guess a standalone project is out of question.. but simple levels ?
* I've read all ID legal blah-blah but I'm more confused than ever !
For Those Who May Be Interested
#10915 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.186.209] on 2011/03/06 11:54:56
The editor view:-
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703...
The compile result:-
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839...
In game and lit:-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834...
In game and fullbrite:-
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854...
It will have to stay as it is.
#10916 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/06 12:46:47
-I guess a standalone project is out of question.. but simple levels ?
A more important question before that issue would be, how would you convince people to pay for a few quake levels?
That kind of thing was done in the mid-90s but not now :P
Raytrace Of Hope
#10917 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/03/06 12:50:44
If the next brush entity you add to the map is lit fully on all surfaces, you'll probably find that the unlit surface goes away - it'll start drawing the lightmap from the newly added model. You might even consider adding a superfluous func_wall which is lit on all sides in a box outside the map, just for this purpose. It's a huge hack to work around a compiler bug, but better than nothing.
Sunk Without A Trace
#10918 posted by Mike Woodham [86.177.186.209] on 2011/03/06 15:44:26
Unfortunately, no joy.
Nevermind, the rest of the map is of such astounding beauty, with gameplay to test and please the most ardent fan, whilst the cognoscenti of fantasy architechture will be in raptures for the entire time. Yeah, right!
Que Sera Sera
Aligning Textures On Rotaters
#10919 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/06 19:04:57
noticed you had texture alignment that got trashed by the compiler.
an easy way i've found is to first build your brush and align the textures. next, make your info_rotate origin entity.
now, with texture lock ON, select both the rotater and the origin and move it so the origin is on '0 0 0' (or whichever axis is relevant).
then turn texture lock OFF and move it back to the proper position.
this effectively does in reverse what qbsp does.
i don't understand why qbsp can't have it's own version of texture lock when it's moving bsp models around. :(
A Hod's As Good As A Sink To A Blind Norse
#10920 posted by Mike Woodham [86.185.202.30] on 2011/03/06 21:52:50
Not perfect, but kilometres better than jet black. It now looks as though the outer ring is oak and the crosspiece is walnut. Nice.
I'll go with that - thanks.
Door Triggers
#10921 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/03/06 22:36:20
So I have a set of bars blocking an area that can only be opened once a computer is destroyed. I think I need to make a func_button with health set to something, so when the player shoots it, it triggers the door (bar) to open. I think there's some problems with this though:
1. don't func_buttons also move when triggered? Having the computer move when triggered would be weird. Is there a way to change the texture (or if it's an animated texture go to a different frame)?
2. How can I target multiple multiple doors? Setting the bars to all have the same name seems make them all move in the same direction, regardless of the direct I've set them to move.
#10922 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/03/06 22:58:54
I figured out issue 2, I should have been using a trigger_once, which I'm doing now and it's working fine.
#10923 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.175.224.155] on 2011/03/06 23:25:47
Trigger once and trigger multiple can have health too.
with a trigger once the collision box is removed once it has been fired too, so it won't block the player either.
For 2
#10924 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/06 23:43:39
check the 'doors_dont_link' spawnflag on the func_doors.
#10925 posted by ericw [161.184.107.29] on 2011/03/06 23:49:48
It should be possible to tweak the 'lip' value for the button so it doesn't move. Maybe there's an easier way though.
To get the button's texture to change when pressed/shot, use one with a "+0" prefix. When triggered the button will switch to the corresponding texture with a "+a" prefix. If you have more numbered and lettered textures it will animate in the cycle (+0foo, +1foo, +2foo, etc) and then switch to (+afoo, +bfoo, +cfoo, etc.) when pressed/shot.
@ericw
#10926 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/03/07 00:08:21
I'll try that later.
This is what I have so far. Requires rmqdemo2. Just unzip in the rmqdemo2 folder and playdemo metaldemo.
Help With GtkRadiant 1.5.0 Plz
#10927 posted by small [86.151.87.76] on 2011/03/07 16:51:03
when ever i create something it can never load the textures (Texture load failed: "textures/"). im doing a trem map.
what do i do?
#10928 posted by Alban [82.114.87.98] on 2011/03/07 19:52:10
i have a problem. when i click cs it says:
Wad file gfx.wad doesn't have WAD3 id.
Helllpppp me pleaase
#10929 posted by negke [88.70.53.192] on 2011/03/08 10:47:48
small: Doesn't the Tremolous website have a guide on how to set up the mapping tools? You need the game pack with entity information (trem.game folder) and the game path has to be set correctly in Radiant. If it doesn't read the textures from the pk3, try extracting the textures and the scripts folders into tremolous/baseq3 (or however it's called) dir.
Alban: Err, install HL/CS properly then? The HL engine uses the WAD3 format, Quake has WAD2.
Losing Weapons
#10930 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2011/03/09 09:11:35
What are the circumstances for losing weapons between maps e.g. is it automatic, can it be set on/off with a flag.
I have had to split my final map into two (this makes three in total including FMB_BDG) and I will need to to account for the loss of weapons as the maps are continuous.
(This is the map that I released a couple of years ago where I was over every limit so split it into two and only released part of it. The other half was finished some time ago and I am now populating it with meanies and will release it later this year)
Negative Backpack Hack
#10931 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/03/09 12:15:06
By Preach - its in this: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... thread somewhere.
Mike
#10932 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/09 20:09:03
quake only resets weapons if you enter a map called start.bsp. this is the only case.
the alternative is if you use the console 'map xxx' command via a custom trigger entity.
#10933 posted by small [86.158.12.208] on 2011/03/09 21:06:19
yeh i found out what to do thanks
Quoth: Info_trap
#10934 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.120] on 2011/03/12 17:15:30
Trying to make a trap that shoots lava balls in an arc. Got everything working nicely except it refuses to display progs/lavaball.mdl as the projectile model...
So what am I doing wrong? :E
Arrgh
#10935 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/03/12 20:47:30
It's because there's a horrible mistake in the documentation which got carried over into the fgd. You need to set "modelpath" rather than "model". Sorry!
#10936 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.120] on 2011/03/12 22:07:23
Ah okay, cheers. Works perfectly, even leaves the particle trail which I didn't expect.
Rah Catapults ahoy :D
ZQF
#10937 posted by RickyT23 [86.25.13.241] on 2011/03/12 22:48:14
Sounds awesome :)
Importing Meshes Into Radiant
#10938 posted by Jago [91.155.231.94] on 2011/03/14 01:06:28
If I wanted to import a mesh into Radiant, to use as a rough base for a Q1 map, how would I go about doing that and with which version of Radiant?
Wasn't Sure Where To Post This So Putting It Here.
#10939 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.24] on 2011/03/21 19:05:11
I threw together a quick description thingy of my Ogre sequence.
It's more just a list of what objects are involved and what they do. Feel free to comment or tell me how badly I laid it out :)
http://www.zealousquakefan.com/201...
Awesome
#10940 posted by RaverX [79.113.89.55] on 2011/03/22 23:05:29
Awesome, simply awesome. Excelent work Zealous.
Saw This, Forgot To Comment
#10941 posted by ijed [190.22.59.12] on 2011/03/23 00:27:44
That's fucking great. Introducing enemies is always a good thing to do, but takes some time to get right.
Yeah...
#10942 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/03/23 00:35:43
that's one area where I think rubicon 2 suffered from not having a linear progression -- without a known map order, I couldn't really create a special intro for each enemy type. I did manage to create first encounters that were limited to just that enemy type, but they had no special buildup or memorable event around them.
#10943 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.71] on 2011/03/23 02:24:31
I'm compiling a few things to start off that Quoth thread that Negke suggested. I'm not very good at writing this sort of thing but I've got a few tricks with rotates and info_traps I hope people would like.
I couldn't really create a special intro for each enemy type.
I was originally just thinking about how I'd introduce Quoth monsters in a mechanical sense, because despite the popularity of the mod I've read posts of people not really understanding or remembering their behaviour :E
Zealous
#10944 posted by Vondur [195.218.191.171] on 2011/03/23 10:14:08
Ogre is indeed impressive! A pity you spoiled it in that video, would jump on my chair if i'd first got to see him in the actual level :)
OMG !!!
#10945 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/03/23 11:51:54
It awesome !!
Indeed...
#10946 posted by distrans [149.144.9.74] on 2011/03/24 07:40:11
...very impressive work.
How about having the player look through a one way glass (hack) and seeing some Pyros testing their flamers. Armour evapourates, health halves and bio suits remain untouched.
On another note, what software/process do I need to turn .dem into .wmv or .mp4 files?
#10947 posted by Spirit [82.113.121.194] on 2011/03/24 08:08:05
Darkplaces let's you easily encode unimpressed AVI but of course it does look different from stock quake. If jdhack's engine finally was released you could capturedemo only limited by your harddisk's speed... joequake and its derivates also have AVI capture, iirc even with compressor support but I never found them easy to use. Whatever you do, make sure you encode to H264 or webm for good quality.
Or Simply
#10948 posted by negke [88.70.60.96] on 2011/03/24 10:21:34
Good old Fraps + compressing to the target format/codec with VirtualDub.
#10949 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.94.34] on 2011/03/24 11:02:58
Ye I used Fraps + Virtual dub to compress. H264 didn't work for me, it kept desyncing the audio. Compression with xvid and the bit rate suggested worked great though :)
#10950 posted by Spirit [82.113.121.194] on 2011/03/24 12:56:48
Fraps costs money or you have that ugly fps counter I think?
I recommend Avidemux for editing/encoding, much nicer to use imo.
Fraps Doesn't Cost Money
#10951 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/03/24 13:52:07
Orly? YOu Made Me Check
#10952 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.33] on 2011/03/24 17:54:07
The website says "Registration enhances the program and allows you to record as long as you like. Perform full-size recording with no watermarks on your movie." about the $37 version.
I Meant You Can Pirate It
#10953 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/03/24 20:59:37
It seems I was being too subtle.
Ta Much...
#10954 posted by distrans [149.144.9.74] on 2011/03/25 06:41:09
...that gives me options.
Hi Distrans
#10955 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/03/25 11:47:19
Another Limit Exceeded
#10956 posted by Mike Woodham [86.185.201.19] on 2011/03/27 17:45:07
"40 dlights exceed standard limit of 32"
What do I need to tone down? Is it muzzle flash by any chance?
Dynamic Lights
#10957 posted by negke [88.70.244.242] on 2011/03/27 17:51:04
Flickering and the like?
Errr
#10958 posted by negke [88.70.48.102] on 2011/03/27 19:16:26
Large projectile monster hordes and lava balls?
Negke
#10959 posted by Mike Woodham [86.185.201.19] on 2011/03/27 19:26:25
Looks like it. Another notnull trick bites the dust!
Mike:
#10960 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/03/28 00:25:41
as far as i can tell from the source, excessive dlights won't cause a crash, but the extra ones won't cast any light.
Metlslime
#10961 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2011/03/28 17:08:02
Thanks. In that case I'll leave it in as the player certainly won't have time to be counting pretty lights during this bombardment!
#10962 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/03/28 21:35:31
i'm excited about this map now. ^_^
Was Working On A Speedmap In WC 1.6
#10963 posted by Drew [70.49.68.188] on 2011/04/01 07:08:34
and my computer bluescreened on me.
Now when I try to open it I get the following error message:
" Oops! SerializeRMF () v1.8 tried to load a file v0.0. Aborting"
and then
"there was a file error"
any idea what I could do?
#10964 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/04/01 14:07:13
Have you tried loading it in a text editor?
Yeah
#10965 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/04/01 19:11:58
Its a corrupt text file. They're pretty rare.
You will have lost something though, even if you manage to salvage.
Shoot.
#10966 posted by Drew [70.49.68.188] on 2011/04/01 22:03:02
oh well.
Worldcraft Exporting
#10967 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/05 02:01:36
Is there anything 'special' that needs to be done when exporting a map from worldcraft (quakeadapter version) to get radiant to read it properly? Just exporting to .map and loading the file in radiant doesn't produce any geometry.
Looking at the source there seems to be some 'extra' stuff in the .map produced by worldcraft. Example:
from my map:
<quote>
( 0 -896 160 ) ( 64 -896 160 ) ( 64 -920 160 ) JF2TECH07 [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 8 ] 0 1 1
( 0 -920 96 ) ( 64 -920 96 ) ( 64 -896 96 ) JF2TECH03 [ -1 0 0 64 ] [ 0 -1 0 24 ] 0 1 1
( 0 -896 160 ) ( 0 -920 160 ) ( 0 -920 96 ) JF2TECH01 [ 0 1 0 -24 ] [ 0 0 -1 32 ] 0 1 1
( 64 -896 96 ) ( 64 -920 96 ) ( 64 -920 160 ) JF2TECH01 [ 0 1 0 -24 ] [ 0 0 -1 32 ] 0 1 1
( 64 -896 160 ) ( 0 -896 160 ) ( 0 -896 96 ) JF2TECH03 [ -1 0 0 64 ] [ 0 0 -1 32 ] 0 1 1
( 64 -920 96 ) ( 0 -920 96 ) ( 0 -920 160 ) JF2TECH03 [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 32 ] 0 1 1
</quote>
from a random place in rub2m1:
<quote>
( 240 1216 64 ) ( 208 1216 64 ) ( 208 1200 64 ) jf2lite14 0 -8 -90 1 1
( 208 1200 80 ) ( 208 1216 80 ) ( 240 1216 80 ) jf2rust61 15 -96 -90 1 1
( 232 1200 80 ) ( 232 1200 64 ) ( 216 1200 64 ) jf2rust61 96 112 0 1 1
( 216 1216 80 ) ( 216 1216 64 ) ( 232 1216 64 ) jf2rust61 96 112 0 1 1
( 216 1216 64 ) ( 216 1216 80 ) ( 216 1200 80 ) jf2rust61 16 112 -180 1 -1
( 232 1216 64 ) ( 232 1200 64 ) ( 232 1208 80 ) jf2rust61 16 112 -180 1 -1
</quote>
There seems to be some extra junk in my .map, namely, the thing in brackets after the texture name. Are these a side effect of valve's 220 map format? Is there anyway to fix it?
Map Conversion
#10968 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/05 02:05:55
Like a loft conversion but cheaper...
I wouldn't be surprised if QuArK was able to convert between hammer's new map format and the classic .map.
Thanks Preach
#10969 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/05 03:08:47
QuARK did the trick.
New question: I'm making a map using the rubicon2 mod. I have 4 misc_sparks with the same name that are targeted by a trigger_once with 50 health. Afaik, once the trigger_once dies, the misc_sparks should start firing, but they're not. I had this same setup when i was playing with rmq, but with fx_sparks, and it worked fine. I also have a trigger_once behind the first trigger that opens some doors, which still works fine. So what am i missing?
Jt_:
#10970 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/05 04:36:33
I don't have any toggleable lights in the final rubicon 2 maps to prove that they work, but the code does appear to be functional. Do you have the start_off flag set?
(btw, there's no guarantee that they work the same as RMQ sparks, or quoth sparks, or anything else.)
Er...
#10971 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/05 04:59:07
I don't have any toggleable lights misc_sparks
#10972 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/05 06:10:07
I had the entities with the field 'name' instead of 'targetname.' Heh. The misc_sparks now work.
Another simple question: How does using changing the texture on a func_wall work? More specifically, what field needs to be added to the entity to tell it what texture to change to? Looking at the qc, func_wall_use sets self.frame to 1 - self.frame, but I've tried setting frame, startframe and endframe (like in hl), and texture, but none have done anything. Do the textures to start with +n, where n is the frame number? I've been trying to switch between jf2tech07 and jf2tech08.
Jf2tech03, Not 07
#10973 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/05 06:12:10
Yeah...
#10974 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/04/05 09:30:26
i've never actually tried it, but if it does work, it will work by switching between +0 and +a...
It Doesn't Work
#10975 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/05 15:05:43
The func_wall's use is set to func_wall_use, so it's going to always be switching between the textures. I worked around it.
Radiant Questions
#10976 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/08 02:57:48
1. How can i flip a texture? I went through the options for like 20 mins trying to find this to no avail.
2. I don't see anything resembling visgroups, so how does one manage large maps? Invert the selection and hide everything?
3. Is there anyway to search for specific brushes/entities? Either by type (misc_*, info_*) or by targetname? It seems like that would be useful.
#10977 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/04/08 03:26:41
jt_ to flip a texture, usually you have to set the scale to a negative figure, i.e. "'x' scale" = "-1".
I don't know if this works in Radiant, but I would have thought so, surely?
Assuming Netradiant
#10978 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/04/08 04:25:29
Setting the horizontal/vertical stretch to a negative number will flip it.
There are no vis groups, you can try selecting, inverting, hiding to remove unwanted parts of the map from view, or try using regions, which (iirc) basically removes anything not in view from your map. It doesn't delete it, it just hides, without 'hide'-ing it. It should be under Misc->Region. I am not too familiar with it, I never use it, but that's the closest I can give you.
There is an entity list to look through which will help you out. 'L' is the default short cut. You can also search by brush or entity #, under Misc->Find Brush.
Hope this helps.
Brush Number?
#10979 posted by jt_ [174.252.249.156] on 2011/04/08 05:14:21
That sounds dumb.
Regioning
#10980 posted by negke [188.96.130.136] on 2011/04/08 10:03:03
It's a little awkward to use at times, but it does the job. Using this, you can still hide stuff within the selected region, so it's better for that purpose. It's also a good idea to make a shortcut for "Region off".
Brush Number...
#10981 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/08 19:34:12
at least some compilers will give an error with a brush number, this lets you find that brush. How else you gonna find it?
Didn't Think Of That.
#10982 posted by jt_ [174.252.249.124] on 2011/04/08 19:38:28
But any other time it seems silly.
#10983 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/04/08 19:54:17
that does sound handy. the other way is to go to the given line number in the map file (in a text editor) make a note of the coords and find it that way, which is a bit long winded
Neg
#10984 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/08 21:38:51
sikkpin's radiant has alt+x, alt+y and alt+z to the different axis regions and then alt+o for region off. nothing like that in gtkr/netradiant?
Regions
#10985 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.81] on 2011/04/08 23:55:07
Did I understand it correctly that a region will only display what's already in the view? Is that only a performance enhancement? Or does it reduce visual clutter in any way?
#10986 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/09 00:26:17
it reduces visual clutter, yes. when you turn a region on, everything outside the region isn't shown.
But What
#10987 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.81] on 2011/04/09 07:38:11
defines a region? How is it then different from a visgroup?
#10988 posted by negke [88.70.58.24] on 2011/04/09 10:32:43
necros: Not by default anyway. Only for turning brushes into a region, not for deactivating it.
SleepwalkR: You select a bunch of brushes (=a certain region of the map) and the rest will not be displayed. For example, if you have a multi-story building but only want to work on the upper floor, you can make that a region so the 2D top view is less cluttered. It's like a negative hide function.
Cool
#10989 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.81] on 2011/04/09 10:56:49
Thanks for explaining.
#10990 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.92] on 2011/04/09 11:53:35
QuArK's system is the best though. You can organise your map in a "folder tree". You have folders in which you can put your brushes and entities. Those you can then make ignored on building, hide, gray out, make unselectable etc. Could not be easier to organise complex maps.
#10991 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.92] on 2011/04/09 12:00:27
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
How Do Those
#10992 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.81] on 2011/04/09 13:02:35
get stored? Are they hidden in comments in the map file? Or is there an extra file next to the map? Or does Quark have its own format?
#10993 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.92] on 2011/04/09 13:27:10
It has its own map format, .qkm (binary I think). When you tell it to build, it saves a .map file. You can also always save as .map but then you lose those groups and some other features.
Hmm
#10994 posted by SleepwalkR [92.231.110.81] on 2011/04/09 18:28:23
I wonder why they don't just save their extra info as comments in the map files.
Yeah
#10995 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/09 19:34:28
quark really has the best way of organizing stuff. from what i remember when i worked on hl2 stuff, the wc visgroups are ok, but they aren't as easily managed as quark groups are.
#10996 posted by gb [46.142.15.215] on 2011/04/10 05:36:23
I use groups only if I really have to. Otherwise I use Cubic Clip.
Heh - I Just Dont Use Them
#10997 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/04/10 05:39:44
Sometimes I have to grab half of the map and hide it, but there's no control over it really, I just use rectangle select and hide half of the map.
#10998 posted by Spirit [80.171.84.40] on 2011/04/10 10:09:41
Does anyone know how to compile maps right from the Netradiant menus? Is that even possible for Quake 1?
#10999 posted by negke [188.96.132.137] on 2011/04/10 11:03:55
You need to edit the default_build_menu.xml file in the q1.game folder.
#11000 posted by Spirit [80.171.84.40] on 2011/04/10 11:46:30
No output in the console thing. Is that possible with hmap2 or any of the linux build tools?
QC Error In Coop Mode
#11001 posted by negke [88.70.55.137] on 2011/04/13 19:08:37
I'm stumped here. In coop mode (or to be more precise anything with maxplayers > 1) one of the hacks in Mappi2 causes an error that crashes some engines. The culprit is a customized notnull door entity (of the generator cables - the purpose was to make it nonsolid) which becomes erroneous when more than one player slot is active, because this change in the edict list invalidates the entity's owner field.
I worked around it by changing the entity in question to "use" "func_wall" with "owner" "1" so that it only appears when triggered and is nonsolid at least for the first player. This setup works fine in coop mode.
However, for a reason I don't understand it still causes an error in coop if the berzerker mode (=axe only) is enabled. Not only when the entity is triggered, but already on mapstart. The game displays then a "door_fire: self.owner != self" and the cable doesn't appear.
Any ideas why that could be? Does the removal of the shotgun for the first player mess with the edict list, too? It seems so as there's also a 'walkmonster in wall' warning from a vore inside a func_wall (set to be his owner). But why only with maxplayers > 1?
mappi2tmp.zip
"owner" "1|2"
#11002 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/13 19:10:51
Just throwing it out there. Probably won't work.
Hmm.
#11003 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/13 19:44:36
You've got yourself a tough one there, but the question that I'd want to investigate first is not why it's breaking in berserker mode, but how you're getting away with it in the other modes. There is no way that you can run door_fire if owner is anything but self. Have you assigned door_fire to a particular field yourself?
#11004 posted by negke [88.70.55.137] on 2011/04/13 19:57:49
I didn't use door_fire anywhere. However, could it be related to the other (now only) door hack in the map: the water from the bucket puzzle? For the warning message does not appear on Easy (where said entity is flagged out). When the maps starts in bezerk mode, a script is run that activates and removes a whole bunch of entities including the water door.
Not that it would be any less strange.
#11005 posted by negke [88.70.55.137] on 2011/04/13 20:04:08
Yes, it's indeed related. If the door isn't triggered, everything works as it should. But why?
Fire In The Hole
#11006 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/13 20:58:51
door_fire expects to be called from the master door in a set of doors. Just make sure that the hacked door entity has owner set to itself - you may need to include a copy for each skill configuration which includes the door if the entity number changes in different configurations.
Two comments on setting that field right. Firstly, the higher up the list of entities you can put the hacky door the better, since there's less chance the entity number will change that way.
Secondly, there's a good chance you'll be screwed over for coop by this. Single player reserves only 1 entity for players, but coop has to reserve up to "maxplayers" entities even if that many have not connected yet.
Best thing to do might be to create two version of the door, one for a server with maxplayers 1 (the single player version) and one for maxplayers 16 (the maximal coop version). One door would have an owner 15 greater than the other. Then killtarget off whichever one will crash the game using the coop detection trick as soon as you can. People who want to play coop would have to set maxplayers 16 for it to work - I don't think there's a way to detect server capacity through qc.
Good luck!
Yeah
#11007 posted by negke [88.70.55.137] on 2011/04/13 21:13:01
I'll just remove the entire puzzle on coop. Let's see how I can squeeze the additional entities in... on skill 2 the map is practically on the edge of maxedicts.
A reminder that I shouldn't forget to coop test my maps in the future.
Ah Crap
#11008 posted by negke [88.70.55.137] on 2011/04/13 21:46:10
As neat as the coop detection hack is, I can't afford it. In fact, I'll have to solve it the cheapest way possible with a simple killtarget trigger. Is there by any chance a way to make a trigger that removes itself after a while if it isn't touched?
This Message Will Self Destruct In Five...four...
#11009 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/14 11:16:45
Yeah, turns out that's pretty simple. Just add
"think" "SUB_Remove"
"nextthink" "60"
to a regular trigger_multiple to get it removed after 60 seconds. The counter will go away if someone triggers it.
Nice, Thanks
#11010 posted by negke [88.70.81.62] on 2011/04/14 12:10:19
I actually tried that but with an into_notnull and the trigger touch/use fields which didn't work. I thought the trigger_ entities' think field was locked to InitTrigger.
#11011 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/17 04:41:01
does scaling up textures on triggers and other invisible things (clip even?) reduce lightmaps?
what about skybrushes?
i do this out of habit, but i don't remember if it actually does anything or not. my gut tells me yes but i've been wrong about stuff like this before.
#11012 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/04/17 05:14:28
Hmm I think invisible things are ... immune? ... to lightmaps. At least, that would make sense to me. Not sure about skybrushes, but being fullbright I would assume it too wouldn't matter.
#11013 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/04/17 10:32:41
triggers: yes
clips: no
skies: no
#11014 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/18 01:04:44
thanks!
yeah, in retrospect, it makes sense that clips wouldn't as they are only part of hull1 and 2. and skies are treated as liquid i guess?
but yeah, thanks for clearing that up. :)
?
#11015 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.4] on 2011/04/19 03:13:18
I just gathered my wits and lost them again...
Did recheque my last map and saw I scaled up all skymaps an clips to reduce lightmaps as I was on the 32768 brush limit.
Must I use a toppicname now again?
Brushes?
#11016 posted by Mike Woodham [87.127.250.2] on 2011/04/19 12:59:10
32,000 brushes? That's one mighty big map; mighty f'kin' big.
I Think He Meant Marksurfaces
#11017 posted by negke [188.96.134.155] on 2011/04/19 13:05:00
Doh!
#11018 posted by Mike Woodham [86.161.93.208] on 2011/04/19 20:01:12
Oh well.
Out Of Orbit
#11019 posted by MadFox [84.26.69.4] on 2011/04/19 21:06:14
Yes, the map had 2954 brushes and marksurfaces were at the limit. (about 32768 I think)
But again, does it reduce the lightmap count scaling up clips and skytexture?
Triggers I understand, but after a half year I don't know why I took that much care.
Skip
#11020 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/21 05:03:33
skip doesn't work when it's external bsps loaded from an entity? shit made me very very sad. :'(
Skip It First?
#11021 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/04/21 06:05:52
#11022 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/21 06:52:37
...
Necros:
#11023 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/04/21 09:01:24
Ah, i see why that fails.
The world model is rendered differently from bsp entities. So, to make skip work on both types, a different trick is used on model 0 versus models 1 and higher.
The problem with external bsp models is, they are model 0 in the bsp file, so newskip applies the trick that makes worldmodel skip work, but the game renders them as entities, not worldmodels, so the trick doesn't have any effect.
It is fixable, but i'm not sure how easy it would be. Worst case is we would need a special command line option to tell the skip tool that it's dealing with an external bsp model rather than a level, and process it accordingly.
#11024 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/21 19:06:48
aw that's too bad. mostly it would have been great in helping to light the bmodels but you can still do it fairly well by making all the shadow casting walls 1 unit behind the world geometry in the actual map.
#11025 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/21 19:37:53
hmm... what were you trying to do exactly?
#11026 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/21 20:03:16
well, i've been replacing some brushwork in my map with external bsps.
at first, i was just replacing 'object' type brushwork, like a pillar or coffin type of thing.
but my map has a lot of high roofs as well, and while they may have fancy precompiled light cast on them, dynamic light should never touch them, so i was planning on replacing all the ceiling zones with external bmodels. unfortunately, recreating the lighting in external bsps means creating the brushwork to cast the shadows. having the ability to make invisible walls would have been awesome for that.
but like i said, i've made do with pushing shadow casters 1 unit behind the map geometry. it's still there, but you just don't see it.
Train Trouble On Glquake (sv_maxvelocity?)
#11027 posted by negke [188.96.128.120] on 2011/04/22 10:45:13
I have a set of very fast-moving func_trains to fake an animation (flag in the wind). Their speed is set to 4000 and they stay on their target position for 0.1 seconds. Despite sv_maxvelocity being 2000, the high value does the trick; setting speed to 2000 would make the movement visible.
This setup works suitably well in many engine ports, but not so much in Glquake and direct derivates. In those, there's a visible delay, the trains move out of sync - it looks like sometimes two 'frames' are shown (wait at the target path_corner) at once, then one remains empty. Each of the three 'frames' start at a remote spot, then move to a delayed path_corner (wait 0, 0.1, 0.2 respectively), then to the flag pole one (wait 0.1), then loop with another remote one (wait 0.3) and the pole.
What could be the reason for this different behavior?
#11028 posted by negke [88.70.56.127] on 2011/04/23 11:40:52
I realize it's probably hard to tell without actually seeing it for oneself, so here, in the castle map.
#11029 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/23 19:24:33
i don't know what's wrong, but i don't think sv_maxvelocity has anything to do with it.
the reason a bmodel warps from one spot the another is because of how it's coded in qc.
when a movement is called, qc determines the time it will take to get to the destination. if it finds the time taken to get to the destination is less than 0.1 seconds, it simply does a setorigin instead of actually moving it.
that said, i have no idea what's going on here... have you tried making the flag frames have a targetname and them triggering them?
might be some hiccup while the map is spawning that the trains have slightly different times? i dunno. really wild guess there.
#11030 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/04/24 00:38:12
i watched it for a while, it seemed to start out in sync and then when i had a framerate hiccup due to my antivirus scanner kicking in, that made it get out of sync.
I'm not a quakec expert but I think keeping movers in sync implicitly using just timing like this might be framerate dependant. If so, maybe you can script it so that each frame explicitly triggers the next frame, ensuring that they'd stay in sync (is there a message fired when the train arrives at a path_corner, for example?)
Or maybe they could be func_doors instead of trains, that stay open for 0.1 seconds and have an extremely high "speed", and trigger the next door 0.1 seconds after they are triggered (using delay maybe).
#11031 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/24 00:52:04
yeah, i'd try out metl's suggestion using doors and trigger_relay daisy chain.
those will be guaranteed to always keep things in time.
Triggers And Targets
#11032 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.24.219] on 2011/04/25 19:47:44
Should one trigger (a trigger_counter in this case) be able to activate a 'target' and a 'killtarget'?
I am using one to do both but it does not activate both - it will do either/or but not both.
SUB_UseTargets suggests that it should do both?
Mike...
#11033 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/25 19:56:06
I think there is a bug that they can't both work from the same entity.
Create trigger_relay to do the killing part and that should solve it.
OK, Thanks
#11034 posted by Mike Woodham [86.174.24.219] on 2011/04/25 20:13:11
Hax Question
#11035 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/27 11:22:54
so, clip brushes can't move. anyone got any suggestions for how they... could?
(I have a ladder, func_door, which moves up/sideways, but I want the player to be able to climb it easily (ie normal rapid clip brush stairs) once it is in place. Any ideas?
I Could Leave It As Jump-up-the-ladder
#11036 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/27 11:24:03
but the player is exposed, and would have to be very careful. And I don't want to piss people off or force them to play a certain way. I do that enough already.
Make Your Stairs
#11037 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.199.157] on 2011/04/27 11:42:29
Texture them with skiptex, and skip 'em! ;) Effectively a clip brush which can be funked.
Heh
#11038 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/27 11:54:22
thanks
that is a very good idea
but, I'm afraid, then the wily (or just curious) player will randomly walk up these invisible stairs before the visible ladder (func_door) is in place?
Heh
#11039 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/27 12:04:25
actualy wait maybe I'm misunderstanding
if I can func_door a skip brush and make an invisible yet clippable brush which can have entity functions that would so solve my problems.
Yeah You Can
#11040 posted by RickyT23 [86.138.199.157] on 2011/04/27 12:46:41
Just move the invisible 'func_door ladder' into position at the same time as the visible ladder :)
#11041 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/27 19:59:52
you can totally put clips in func_doors.
Clip Brushes In Func_doors
#11042 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/27 20:31:48
This works, but there are special things you need to do.
The main issue is that only the visible brushes of the func_* will be used to generate a bounding box that is used for physics optimization. So if a clip brush sticks out beyond that bounding box, players and monsters will be able to walk through it. If the player enters the bounding box, THEN they will correctly collide against all brushes, including clip brushes.
So, the thing you need to do is make sure you have visible brushes that extend in all 6 directions (+X, -X, +y, -Y, +Z, -Z), so that your bounding box is correct.
For example, a visible ladder that has clip brush stairs -- the visible brushes are already tall enough and wide enough, but the front of the ladder is the problem -- add another brush somewhere (maybe below the floor) that extends forwards as far as your most forward clip brush. This will force the bounding box to be correct.
Rumour
#11043 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/27 20:33:41
Isn't there a catch with clip brushes - that they don't count for the 'extents' of their entity? So you need conventional brushes to mark the outer edges of the entity.
None of this applies to skip brushes though, so that will work fine. Remember that skip blocks rockets but clip doesn't if that matters!
P.S.
#11044 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/27 20:33:54
For the record, I think this is a qbsp bug, but an engine could theoretically fix the data at map load time.
Metlslime Got My Back
#11045 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/04/27 20:34:50
That's what I was getting at. I even posted the shorter post this time round and still got sniped...
Interesting
#11046 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/27 20:38:12
so if you had custom progs that let you manually set bbox size, you could have clip brushes beyond what qbsp would set as the bbox then.
#11047 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/04/27 20:46:21
Not sure actually... I'd have to check the code to see, but I think the bounding boxes generated by qbsp and used by physics are seperate from the boxes set in quakec using setsize(). But maybe not.
Cool
#11048 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/28 02:00:52
thanks for the help/explanations guys, I think I have it solved (am about to test map).
I imagine negke (side note: negke weirdness rules) could do some interesting stuff with invisible movers (although it seems like a func_whatever can't be ONLY clip brushes and has to have some normal brush component).
BTW
#11049 posted by Tronyn [205.200.193.7] on 2011/04/28 11:27:30
I just deleted a giant rant, but if anyone is willing to help me with a map or two, deadline QEXPO 2011, I would really appreciate it. Hell log the hours and I'll pay em back next fall. Once I finish my characteristically-Tronyn-stuff, I'm interested in checking out weirder ideas regarding Q1SP. I've loved the ULTIMATE DOOM ULTRA VIOLENCE view til now, but there are many other views.
Good Luck Tronyn
#11050 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/04/28 13:37:56
It Depends On What Kind Of Help You Need
#11051 posted by generic [67.233.206.51] on 2011/04/28 13:49:29
I am bad at some things and worse at others ;)
#11052 posted by negke [188.96.128.56] on 2011/04/28 16:04:34
negke would use skip brushes to define the bounds and go nuts with clips within. Remember, it takes only two tiny brushes to make it work.
negke weirdness 101: clip maze!!!
Tronyn: Yeah, what kind of help are you talking about. I mean, not that I would want to help a RANT DELETER...
Btw. Metl And Necros
#11053 posted by negke [188.96.128.56] on 2011/04/28 17:48:17
I tried the door setup, but it worked even less. When doors and relays had the same wait/delay, the doors wouldn't move at all, changing delay to 0.2 worked but then the animation wasn't smooth. Or something. Pretty messed up stuff. After three hours I gave up and flagged them out.
#11054 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/04/28 18:29:56
tronyn: email me about whatever and we'll see what's up.
negke:
doors have to have a slightly longer time before the next triggering than their waits. 0.1 is enough i think?
you could try adding more frames (doors) to the animation to get that extra time.
also: MOVING clip maze. ha!
I Don't Know
#11055 posted by negke [88.70.55.161] on 2011/04/28 20:51:45
Maybe Glquake just sucks ass and should have been banned from every computer years ago..
What's That Trick
#11056 posted by Tronyn [174.2.53.253] on 2011/05/02 20:18:24
to edit finished bsps again? I only need to change a trigger_changelevel.
#11057 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/05/02 21:28:21
extract entities from the bsp (which are in plaintext format), save as a .map, edit the .map, then recompile using -onlyents, and remember to also run light.exe -onlyents so the switchable lights will work
Or...
#11058 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/05/02 21:29:10
you can edit the bsp itself with a hex editor, this works as long as the total number of bytes doesn't change. So if you're replacing a string with the same-length string, it would work.
#11059 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/05/02 22:28:05
this does it pretty easily too
Le Duh
#11060 posted by negke [88.70.67.221] on 2011/05/02 22:37:04
Hindsight protip: Tronyn, load all your maps on all difficulties with developer 1 and fix the items that fall out. With your newly-learned skill "-onlyents".
Opening WC Maps In Radiant.
#11061 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/05 22:55:47
i've got a .map file that needs to be edited but it can't be loaded in QE3 (radiant) because the brush lines are incorrect.
i'm guessing this is the WC extended texture alignment stuff. here's what it looks like:
( 472 -504 160 ) ( 472 -424 160 ) ( 472 -472 144 ) WM1_3 [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
and a normal line should look like this:
( 32 256 0 ) ( -272 256 -16 ) ( 32 256 -16 ) wall9_8 0 0 0 1 1
is there any way to fix this? or will i need to get WC somewhere and do changes in there? (would strongly prefer not to as i have 0 experience in that editor and it would take me 10x as long to do stuff).
Piece Of Cake With Regular Expressions
#11062 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.14] on 2011/05/05 23:10:35
something like replacing
"\[.*\]"
with
"0 0".
And that's why I love the Linux commandline. String manipulation is so incredibly easy.
cat file.map| sed 's/\[.*\]/0 0/' > newfile.map
Going to bed now, could run your file through this in ~10 hours if you want. Alternatively use a good editor like jEdit.
Ah Yes
#11063 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/05 23:45:29
thanks for reminding me, i had to do something like this before and i already have jEdit!
i'll try out some stuff with it...
...and It Worked.
#11064 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/05 23:49:01
jEdit is crazy good.
On The Same Topic As Yesterday
#11065 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/07 00:41:09
using jEdit to strip out the extended texture info allowed me to open the map in radiant just fine, but is there a way to preserve the texture alignment at all? i think the four number thing is quaternion or something? is there a one to one method of converting that to simple x,y offset?
keep in mind, i don't understand quaternions at all. :S
Radiant On Linux
#11066 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/10 15:54:15
Those of you who map on linux, what version of radiant do you use? I've been building netradiant from git, and it's been very unstable (expected, though, it is the git version). The official releases don't see to be much more stable than the git versions.
#11067 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 16:23:39
I use GTKRadiant 1.5 from svn, and fixed a problem with newer gtk versions manually (popup messages).
Works well enough.
#11068 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 16:24:11
Do enable autosave, of course.
#11069 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 16:25:32
Oh also with the svn version you get some useful plugins, like Polygon Builder or whatever its name was. Comes in very handy for rings etc. from brushwork.
Help!
#11070 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2011/05/13 12:01:24
what is the editor more similar to Quark but not so heavy?
#11071 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2011/05/13 12:02:41
want to map again at work... but quark runs to slow in this new system... need a software that record a map file and quit fast!
in case someone shows up :p
BSP Editor?
#11072 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/05/13 13:16:30
WORLDCRAFT!!!!
BSP Editor i think Trinca ;)
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/
Has a lot of cool features, and I think its open sourced and in development still (possibly). I installed it the other day to have a peek, and it looked quite cool :D
Heh
#11073 posted by negke [89.204.137.171] on 2011/05/13 13:22:51
There is no editor similar to Quark. And for good reasons.
Give the most popular ones a try and see which one you initially feel most comfortable with.
:\
#11074 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2011/05/13 16:13:44
when I tried WC was like starting with chinese language... :|
Heh - I Felt The Same Way About Quark
#11075 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/13 19:32:02
IF you look in the help tab in Worldcraft you will find a really good simple tutorial that will get you started.
#11076 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/13 20:43:03
i'd stay away from WC if you're new to it. it barely runs on modern systems and it's just really weird to use it.
i find hammer 3.3 much slower in general for general brushwork and i don't imagine WC 1.6 is any better. the constant need to shift+key to switch modes just to add entities or do texturing is a huge time sink.
if you're already comfortable using it and such, then this post isn't aimed at you. i'm mostly talking about people who are considering using a new editor.
i'm of course biased towards sikk's QE3/radiant, so take all that with a grain of salt. :)
Moore's Law
#11077 posted by ericw [161.184.107.71] on 2011/05/13 23:54:44
Doubling the number of transistors in a CPU makes Quark run 50% slower :P
I'm in the same boat as you, Trinca. Seriously, I never had a problem with it on my pentium 100 in '97, but somehow on a 2.3 ghz cpu it struggles to run. I guess my maps are bigger now.. but it's gotta go after I finish my current project.
#11078 posted by gb [46.142.15.28] on 2011/05/14 03:22:26
Try some editors and see what you like... the worldcrafts, the Radiants, BSP... Toe Tag if you're on a Mac...
personally, radiant made me map 300% faster and better. Like switching from a rusty kitchen knife to a scalpel...
Yeah - Toe Tag
#11079 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/14 06:34:21
I wish there was a Windows port of that. It looked awesome. Anyone still in touch with Willem BTW? I miss him :D
He Spends Time
#11080 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/05/14 15:00:42
over on Worldofleveldesign.com forums - much less drama over there. Goes by ... I forget what name he uses.
His Blog Is Here
#11081 posted by gb [46.142.0.115] on 2011/05/14 17:35:29
http://wantonhubris.com/blog/
Texture Lump Size Too Big?
#11082 posted by Luna [76.97.210.244] on 2011/05/17 06:36:42
Hello all
Been working some more on a Quake 1 mod and I've got an error that crashes Light.exe
LoadBSPFile: Texture lump size 2103368 too big (max = 2097152)
I was wondering what can be done about this, the mod is more a TC so it has a lot of textures, I would be okay ditching all of the id1 textures if it means I can make more textures (I am not done making all of the new ones I need by far)
any info would be helpful.
Thank you all!
#11083 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/17 06:43:13
iirc, that sounds like you have too many textures in your map. basically you need to reduce the total size to less than the max (~2mb) so just remove/replace lesser used textures with others, or reduce the size of textures.
Are There Modded Build Tools?
#11084 posted by Luna [76.97.210.244] on 2011/05/17 06:50:49
Ah, thats a bummer
Just wondering since the game will end up using Darkplaces engine, are there any modded build tools that can maybe increase the size above 2mb? Game doesn't have to be Winquake friendly ect.
Thank you for your help so far
Are You Using Bengt Jardrup's Tools?
#11085 posted by ericw [161.184.107.71] on 2011/05/17 07:42:54
I think they're currently the best. Not sure if it will help with this error though.
txqbsp/treeqbsp: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
There are modded versions of his vis/light with multithreading and colored light support:
vis: http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
light: http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
#11086 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/17 07:47:37
use aguirre's tools, his are the most advanced compilers out there. they will compile maps right up to the max that can be done with the .bsp format.
or rather, use his qbsp. for light, use MH's modified version of aguirre's light: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
it has coloured light support and multi-threading.
and for vis, use tuna's fixed version of willem's modified version of aguirre's vis (hehe...)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wv...
which likewise enables multi-threading (and fixes the bug with the vis progress saving)
#11087 posted by negke [89.204.137.137] on 2011/05/17 10:13:53
BJP's qbsps have a -hilimit switch to enable extreme capacity. This may be worth a try, though probably not solve the texture lump problem. If you can't reduce their number/size (considered grouping several similar textures into one?), and are aiming at DP anyway, you can use the Q3 map format and compile the map with hmap2. This way the map will have external textures which should bypass the texture lump issue.
Wow.
#11088 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/05/17 16:48:13
Neg
#11089 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/17 19:10:04
aguirre's (BJP) qbsp already has > 2mb tex lump capacity.
also, i've never been able to get -hilimit to work.
i mean, it compiles and whatever, but no engines can load the map. not even aguirre's engine. :P
I Use -hilimit
#11090 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/17 21:44:10
I need -hilimit. Without it my map wont compile. My map runs in Fitz .85 (and its children), Darkplaces, Aguire-Quake etc. When you hit the vertex limit weird stuff happens. The map will compile, but DP and Fitz&co no longer run it, and AguirRe's invincible, un-crashable engine will run it but you get artefacts in the form of giant flickering polygons all over the place.
Moral Of Story:
#11091 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/17 21:45:18
Dont break the vertex limit of 65### whatever it is.
I've Used -hilimit
#11092 posted by metlslime [166.137.13.143] on 2011/05/17 21:48:10
I think -hilimit merely allows the map to compile, it doesn't magically make engines support the resulting bsp. I used it to exceed 32k leafs I think, and it worked for that test. Not sure if you need it even to exceed marksurfaces though.
Right
#11093 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/17 21:49:57
that's really all i meant. i mean, what's the use of compiling a bsp that can't load in anything at all. :P
#11094 posted by metlslime [166.137.14.222] on 2011/05/17 22:00:00
Probably aguirre hoped that engines would add support once there were bsps to test it on. At least, he added a lot of support to his engine. Sounds like he didn't get to everything though.
My Map Runs Fine On Engines As Long As I Keep The Verts Below
#11095 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/17 22:09:31
The 65thousandish mark. But I started to need the -hilimit command way back when it was only 40'000 or something. If -hilimit wasn't there, really large maps would be a no-no.
Odd
#11096 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/17 22:58:53
i have a map that is right at the 65k vertex mark, but the other things are either below or very close as well, hence why i felt -hilimit was completely useless.
must be in the way the map is made that makes other things balloon up faster than vertices.
#11097 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/19 01:22:33
How much does the openess of an area affect VIS time? If an area is huge but low on detail does VIS time still get hit really bad?
#11098 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/19 01:32:58
yeah, detail and 'openness' both affect vis.
for example, i've got a map that is at 65k vertices, that is to say, about as detailed as you can be, and it full vises in less than 4 hours. flat 3 if i let the machine be and not use up the cpu. mind you, this is on a dual-core cpu, so single core, it'd be maybe 6-7 hours, but that's still very fast.
another map is about half that, but is basically one giant open terrain area, and the vis estimate reached 200 hours before i gave up. (since it's wide open, there's no real point running a full vis anyway).
it's not just details, it's also how many different planes there are in an area, because many different planes (for example, tri souped terrain or curves/beveled edges) will force qbsp to cut the area up into many many (many) small volumes which takes exponentially longer to vis.
#11099 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/19 02:06:04
What would happen if you created an empty box of sky and just placed models inside it? in showtris the sky always looks like it's has less polys cutting it up :E
That Would Be Fast
#11100 posted by negke [89.204.137.199] on 2011/05/19 09:39:45
But as soon as there's geometry in, things slow down. I remember a certain coagula map that was the biggest bitch of all Quake to vis which made the author feel stupid for months afterwards.
Modern compilers split a simple sky surface only twice if there's no interference (older ones would treat sky as a regular texture which is why back then it was recommended to scale it up). So, indeed, you can box your whole map with sky and turn everything within into a large func_wall. Bam, VIS trouble solved!
#11101 posted by negke [89.204.137.199] on 2011/05/19 09:43:43
To be more precise, they split it once, so it will have two polys. In a box with flat symmetric walls and no other brushes touching it.
#11102 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/19 13:37:26
Thanks negke. I was thinking about it's use for adding a bit of surrounding geometry beyond walls in large areas.
And on a similar note: Quoth and replacing geometry with BSP models:
I've got it working, but you don't appear to be able to apply an angle change to it. This just a basic limitation with the technique?
#11103 posted by negke [89.204.137.196] on 2011/05/19 14:13:59
Btw. the func_wall box thing above was a joke in case you really thought it was the way to go. If it's just for additional detail 'outside the window', then it's fine.
Yes, I think external bsps can't be rotated. They always appear relative to worldspawn (angle 0). For angle varations you'll have to create several instances in individual bsps.
#11104 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/19 14:55:00
If it's just for additional detail 'outside the window', then it's fine.
Yeah just thinking of it has some extra eye candy
I Think They Can Be Rotated
#11105 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/05/19 15:04:21
Yeah :) Just give the representative entity an angle like any other entity. Seem to recall it working..... I'll check :)
#11106 posted by gb [46.142.17.84] on 2011/05/19 22:33:50
otherwise try mangle: pitch yaw roll
Trouble With Angles
#11107 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/05/19 23:48:12
Certain entities force angles to be '0 0 0' regardless of the settings from the map. This includes func_wall and func_illusionary. This comes for the standard quake source. Quoth doesn't change this and it probably wouldn't be wise to do so for reasons of backwards compatibility with existing maps.
If you want an entity class with an external model which you can set angles on, I recommend mapobject_custom. It also allows you to select if the entity is made static or not, which might be helpful if a) you're running out of static ents or b) you need to do something dynamic with it.
As a final cool hint, mapobject_custom has MOVETYPE_NOCLIP. While it would probably be of limited use to set the velocity of the entity, this also enables you to set avelocity on one and it will rotate. This is a very cheap and easy way to create rotating fans in base style maps.
If you're worried about the loss of solid clipping because you previously used func_walls instead, I should warn you that rotated bsp model don't provide correct clipping in most engines - so even if func_walls supported it user experiences would range from inconsistent to broken. Luckily you are protected from this by virtue of it not being possible...
#11108 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/20 02:53:58
hehe giving a custom map object an angle but not setting it as static does make the collision go bonkers :D
With the collision off it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for now cheers :)
ps func_togglewall is almost but not quite the most useful thing ever :p
BSP Vertex Manipulation In 2d Window
#11109 posted by megalodon [85.151.64.166] on 2011/05/24 17:30:30
Hi,
I'm getting back into BSP. Ironically, in the past I knew these things but... Are there users of BSP (Quake Editor) that know how to use Vertex Manipulation in 2d window? Or how to make it easier in 3d?
Basicly, I remember it was very easy for me to create a sword-shape from a rectangle by just selecting the vertex in the middle on the side of the rectangular brush and then just pull it outward, like you can see in this Worldcraft tut @ Vertex Manipulation section:
http://www.quake-1.com/wc16a-tutor...
Network Packets
#11110 posted by negke [89.204.137.134] on 2011/05/25 14:05:34
How does that work again. All dynamic entities get sent over the network and having too many of them at once causes overflow. Static entities on the other hand don't generate network traffic. So lots of func_illusionaries are more favorable than lots of func_walls. Does that sound about right?
Try Here
#11111 posted by megalodon [87.127.250.2] on 2011/05/25 14:52:40
http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/inde...
Funny Guy
#11112 posted by megalodon [85.151.64.166] on 2011/05/25 15:42:03
I did not post the above message #11111
And to that poster: of course I 'tried there', but the info is NOT to be found on that website, nor is it in the manual or readme files. It only mentions how to enable vertex dragging by setting vertex_select_mode "2" in the bsp.cfg but it does not mention the actual process of vertex manipulation....anywhere.
Negke:
#11113 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/05/25 19:38:54
yes, changing func_wall to func_illusionary would decrease edicts, and increase static entities, and could reduce packet overflows if you convert enough of them.
Metl
#11114 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/26 00:57:35
Does it reduce detail of hull 1 if you convert lots of illusionaries to func_walls? i.e. a reduction of clipnodes and whatever else?
I Mean Walls => Illusionaries
#11115 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/26 00:58:13
not the other way round, sorry.
Ricky:
#11116 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/05/26 02:07:32
walls and illusionaries are identical as far as QBSP is concerned, so they have no change on the bsp complexity...
Me = Funny Guy
#11117 posted by Mike Woodham [109.156.194.239] on 2011/05/26 08:08:41
"does not mention the actual process of vertex manipulation....anywhere"
...apart from lesson 7 in the tutorials. However, I do not believe it is as advanced as shown in the Worldcraft tutorials as there is no central handle. I have not searched the BspEditor configs to see if there is a setting for that so you might look there if you have not already done so.
But dragging and cutting and shearing will get you any (legal) shape you want.
Mike
#11118 posted by megalodon [85.151.64.166] on 2011/05/26 15:58:41
I know that tutorial and that's not what I mean. I really mean the stuff you see in the WC tut. I know for a fact that BSP can do that, you can have the same handles on the brush and I don't mean those corners but handles that are between the corners, just as in the WC tut.
Basicly, you can already do this in the 3d window in BSP on default, but I remember there was an easier way and it drives me nuts that I forgot about it, because it was way faster then cutting and shearing.
I Guess
#11119 posted by megalodon [85.151.64.166] on 2011/05/26 15:59:31
I should mail the author...
Wtf Wc
#11120 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/29 07:46:50
Could someone see if this map loads in worldcraft? I saved earlier, closed worldcraft, and now it magically doesn't open. WC reports 1456256322345 solids not being loaded because of errors in the file.
:(
Disregard That Last Post
#11121 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/29 15:39:37
I've already recreated what I lost.
Far Concern
#11122 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/05/29 17:18:14
Sometimes it is handy to know what you've done wrong, before recreating it.
I did a quick search with notepath and concluded you reached an unknown punctuation at line 885.
}
}
{
Here's the corrected map in disregard:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/tl_.m...
#11123 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/31 03:02:38
Ambient sounds. Are there any technical limits or issues with them that would limit you from putting quite a few in, and is it possible to get rid of that wind noise when the player is near sky?
Ambients
#11124 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/31 03:18:33
yes, there are some limitations on ambient sounds. there is a hard limit on how many can be placed in a map. i believe this is 128.
other than that, it's the only way to get ambient sounds in the engine.
remember though, while 128 may seem like a lot, flames and torches all automatically start an ambient sound, so if you have a group of 4 or 5 flames, that's 4 or 5 ambients wasted, pretty much where a single ambient would have been fine.
and yes, you can get rid of the sky sound in two ways.
a) the shitty hack way is to just make the wind2.wav silent. this is not great since it affects all maps, not just one.
b) use the -noambientsky switch on aguirre's vis to disable the sound of sky. (-noambientwater will take off the water sound and -noambient takes off both)
you can even do this after a map has been compiled and full vised. just run vis again (with the completed state file still in the place) and it will update the sound effects.
#11125 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/31 04:57:19
Ah cool. Pretty generous limit then really :)
#11126 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/05/31 08:58:06
MAX_CHANNELS is 128 in standard engines.
But, it turns out you only get to use 116 of those channels for ambients, because there are 4 reserved channels for the hard-coded ambients (water,sky,slime,lava) and there are 8 "dynamic" channels used for pretty much every other sound in the game (gunfire, jump, pain, death, etc, etc.)
So you can have 116 of: torches, ambient_* and light_fluoro_buzz entities before you get an error about "MAX_CHANNELS".
Note, in Fitzquake 0.80+ (and derivatives), and in AguirRe's engines, and probably Darkplaces, the MAX_CHANNELS limit has been raised quite a bit. For example it's 512 in Fitzquake, with 128 dynamics, and 4 hard-coded ambients, leaving 380 channels for static sounds.
#11127 posted by negke [89.204.137.162] on 2011/05/31 10:10:41
If your level has many torches and flames and you're getting into the MAX_CHANNELS warnings, you can turn some of them into point func_illusionaries with a "model" "flame2.mdl" field and use a regular light entitiy for the brightness. This will creats a silent flame. It's useful in areas with several flames in close proximity where one sound is enough; or if they are so far away it wouldn't be heard by the player anyway.
#11128 posted by gb [46.142.1.184] on 2011/05/31 13:20:56
Nobody should need to do that hackery anymore today, unless you're mapping for DOSquake or something.
This Is True...
#11129 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/31 14:04:17
#11130 posted by negke [89.204.137.134] on 2011/05/31 14:19:50
There're still many people who play with Winquake or Glquake. If you're making a protocol 15 map, this is just another limitation to keep in mind.
Thanks For The Info
#11131 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/31 14:49:05
At my stage it'll probably be barely playable in Darkplaces because of high monster counts in several places, never mind vanilla Quake :)
But it's good to know for future reference.
Highest Monster Count I've Done
#11132 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/05/31 15:13:17
Was in AguirRe's engine at 666 - which is now fairly old.
#11133 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/01 16:45:38
Does Fitzquake have a variable to increase the number of particles it'll display? Couple of areas with a fair few togglewall with particles on, which I think is stopping weapon fire from producing particles :E
Directq/RMQ not having the same problem.
It Does
#11134 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/01 17:27:31
I think it's a commandline command. Or a console command. BUUUUUUT....:
I cant remember what it is.......
-particles #
#11135 posted by negke [89.204.137.202] on 2011/06/01 17:39:02
#11136 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/01 18:11:14
hmm, what's the default value? :/
Dunno
#11137 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/01 19:14:47
but i always use -particles 20000 which seems to be enough for dozens of explosions or gib trails.
#11138 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/02 00:32:21
Is there a reason that info_notnull is commented out in quoths fgd?
Dual Purpose
#11139 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/06/02 01:47:23
Because it allows you to make brush and point entities out of it without worldcraft complaining! It's a concession to hacks which really shouldn't be supported, but it's there now.
Ah.
#11140 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/02 01:52:41
Well, i uncommented it :p. I haven't had a need for any of the hacks that involve info_notnull brushes. If i do, i'll comment it out i suppose.
WC 3,3 Texture Issues
#11141 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/02 19:05:46
so there hasn't been a solution to the issues with texture alignment with WC 3.3 yet right? If I were to open a map file in 1.6 and save it as an rmf, and then open it in 3.3, would that, by any chance, work? I know I should search for my answer, but meh.
Yes
#11142 posted by ijed [190.22.89.103] on 2011/06/03 02:49:50
It would.
Because 1.6 saves in a basic format whilst 3.3 is the advanced one.
3.3 being a problematic texture format is only because no other editors bought into it. Functionally it works great, it's just not backwards compatible because of the closed source.
A solution would be reverting it to the simpler format. But to be honest, being able to rotate solids and have the textures do the same seems kind of minimal editor function now.
Basic Format
#11143 posted by ijed [190.22.89.103] on 2011/06/03 02:50:22
Being id1 or 1997.
#11144 posted by negke [89.204.153.200] on 2011/06/03 09:36:17
And that the 'advanced' aspect of the texture offsets probably don't get used by standard QBSPs.
WC3.3 Broken
#11145 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/03 17:08:34
Speaking as we are about Worldcraft anyway... 3D view crashes as soon as you change it's window size (taking the program with it). Kinda annoying cause means I can't maximise the display. Everything else seems okay. Thoughts?
Tried a quick reinstall but didn't help.
Try Updating Your GPU Drivers
#11146 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/03 17:14:56
Also you can try the Hammer 3.5 application, just download the .exe file and drop it into your WC DIR. Then make yourself a shortcut etc....
http://games.softpedia.com/get/Too...
The only other thing tat might work is if you go Tools => Options => 3D Options => Uncheck 'filter textures' if present.
#11147 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/03 21:47:53
Well, using hammer 3.5 seems to work but it's being really annoying about textures. I added them all in and it was fine but on restart it complained they were the wrong type of wad...
#11148 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/03 21:49:50
Ah, lol, think I know what I did, seems okay :p
Non-solid Train
#11149 posted by negke [89.204.153.168] on 2011/06/05 13:26:23
I had this idea for slime trap involving a non-solid mover, and unsuccessfully spent the last two hours trying to make it work.
I used the modelindex trick from <a href=http://celephais.net/board/vi... I must have done something wrong, because I couldn't get the thing to appear and/or move. A door would have been problematic for coop anyway, so I tried it with a train. Still no success.
What do I need to set the info_notnull's think field to? SUB_regen?
From Here
#11150 posted by negke [89.204.153.168] on 2011/06/05 13:27:09
http://celephais.net/board/view_th...
Rger
#11151 posted by dfg [81.10.232.16] on 2011/06/06 20:45:57
regearg
Rger
#11152 posted by dfg [81.10.232.16] on 2011/06/06 20:45:59
regearg
Reger
#11153 posted by rgaerg [81.10.232.16] on 2011/06/06 20:46:23
gregrgerg
Sticky Thumb
#11154 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/07 06:45:40
I'm trying to get my textures aligned, but the viewer from Quark has the nasty habbit to keep hanging.
Some metal4_4 recktangle walls are clear, but the corners give a blurry appearance.
Hard to trace the texture itself.
Triggering A Func_plat
#11155 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/07 19:25:11
Lets say i have a func_plat that i want to stay in it's unextended position until all the monsters in an area are gone. Would i use a trigger_count for this? Just have the monsters target the trigger_count or vice versa?
I should probably just look at the code.
If You Want It To Be In The Up Position Then You Can Use
#11156 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/07 19:35:17
a func_plat.
BUT
If you want it to start in the down position then you have to use a toggle door, with a trigger_multiple at the bottom and the top of the platform.
ANOTHER PROBLEM BECOMES APPARENT:
"You can't stand on the platform without it triggering, but dont want to have to put bars around the bottom of it to prevent the player from travelling up before the desired time/event"
SO
You could try making an invisible button which is positioned underneath the platform, and the button travels down when pressed. The top of the button is maybe 2 or 4 units higher than the top of the platform. On top of it is an invisible door. When you want to activate the lift, you send the invisible door permanently 'open', where it travels down to below the level of the button and platform. Have the button target the trigger_multiple at the top of the lift, rather then the platform directly. This way when you get to the top of the elevator you will not trigger the platform to move straight back down again. Give both the button and the trigger_multiple a generous "delay before reset" key.
But
#11157 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/07 20:02:51
I thoguht func_plats didn't do anything until triggered if they have a targetname.
And the LOW_TRIRGGER spawnflag starts them in their down position.
I think thats how it works, maybe I'm wrong.
Low_trigger Eh?
#11158 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/07 20:33:24
Sounds a hell of a lot simpler than the way I would have done it/tried to do it.
Yeah, That Will Work.
#11159 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/07 21:17:02
Ijed is right. Ricky is very creative tho, hahaha
PLAT_LOW_TRIGGER
#11160 posted by negke [89.204.153.204] on 2011/06/07 22:11:03
What is actually does is placing the trigger volume of the plat at its base instead of making it span over the the whole height. Use this if you don't want the lift to come up when you stand on top of it or jump down the shaft.
I'm not sure if a negative height value would achieve what you want. A door with corresponding triggers (if necessary the activating trigger hack) is probably a safer bet.
#11161 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/08 01:01:11
honestly, func_door should have been named func_mover it's THAT multi-purpose.
Arches
#11162 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/08 03:47:42
So, what's the easiest way to make an arch without wanting to kill myself? :p I've been trying to make an arch with karch2tr from knave.wad for about an hour and it's been this biggest pain in the ass I've ever experienced while mapping..
#11163 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/06/08 06:39:06
I can send you a map that someone made (gibbie?) with a bunch of different arches at 3-sides and 6-sides. Pretty quick and easy.
Jt_
#11164 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/06/08 08:01:41
Some editors have built-in function that allow to create arches from a cube (e.g: QuArK). You just have to select the arch built-in function, and apply parameters such here: http://quark.sourceforge.net/infob...
Well, I don't know whether other editors have this kind of "prefab" features....
... And Also ...
#11165 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/06/08 08:03:30
.. further details here:
http://quark.sourceforge.net/infob...
enjoy :)
Zwiffle
#11166 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/08 14:09:21
That would be great. My email is in my profile.
Jpl: yeah, wc has a arch maker, but its PITA too. :p
#11167 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/08 14:47:44
I always make a cylinder, fit the top to the gap for the arch, snap the vertices to their nearest grid points and then fit cubes to the outline of the cylinder :E
I'll Try That Later
#11168 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/08 14:58:37
I thought about doing that, actually. Will try when i get home.
#11169 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/08 15:00:22
Yeah if you're going to make an arch that's just dug into a wall, the way I do it is like ZQF said: make a cylinder and cut it in half at the middle or just fit the top part at the gap, snap vertices to grid, and then with the brush I want to turn into an arch I just cut it vertically at the vertices of the cylinder and then use vertex manipulation to adjust the individual brushes to the vertices of the cylinder.
If you want an arch that is extruded from a wall and not just dug into it, it's a bit trickier. I believe WC has an arch maker, but I've never used WC so I don't know how much it differs from the one in Hammer. But if I want an arch that's gonna cover an opening that's, say, 128 units wide and with the arch gap 64 units high, I make a brush with the arch maker that's 160x160 units and with whatever values for amount of vertices and brush width that applies to the situation (usually 16 vertices/16 width), and make it cover 360 degrees. Then I just delete the lower half and place it over the gap.
At least that's about how I do it when mapping for Half-Life, never used it for Quake so it might not work there, dunno.
Arches Dude
#11170 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/08 15:16:10
Here:
http://www.quakewiki.net/wp-conten...
And more importantly, here:
http://www.quakewiki.net/articles/...
That top picture is how I make most curves. Just make a bunch of random cuboids usually, and use vertex manipluation to position the corners.
Useful for lining up textures: - for the angled bits - rotations of +/- 26.5 degrees and +/-63.5 degrees, stretch the texture so that it's height is 1.06
#11171 posted by gb [46.142.8.117] on 2011/06/08 16:17:31
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpre...
scroll way down, there is a series of images that show the making of arches. Didn't get to writing the blurbs yet, but the pics should be self explaining.
Personally I think the czg curves aren't round enough. This is just my opinion of course.
I Agree GB, Sort Of
#11172 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/08 17:00:35
and he doesn't really explain in his tutorial how to extrapolate for curvier curves, which is too bad.
Bernsten
#11173 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/08 17:01:15
have you released any HL maps?
#11174 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/08 17:30:27
Nope, I've mapped for years but it's mostly been disconnected experimentation with different build techniques and similar, haven't actually worked on a proper project with a release in mind.
I do, however, plan on starting on a rather large mod sometime in the future, one that I've had in the back in my head for a few years, just have to get all the different ideas concretized and in a fleshed out design document. I also want to have at least a couple released under my belt before this though, like the Q1 map I'm currently working on, to function as a "portfolio" and show that I'm somewhat capable to work on a larger project, and to help recruit other members, seeing as even the basics ideas behind the mod would need a substantial amount of coding, for instance.
Don't know how it'll work out seeing as I have little experience in working with teams, but hopefully having some proper releases under my belt will help gain interest in the project. Also I just realised I went way off topic here, but eh.
Totally Off Topic
#11175 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/08 19:22:13
but I'd definitely play it, I love HL. First things first though I guess - hope your map is coming along, and hope to be considered for testing if you need it - also, make sure you post shots at Qexpo!
#11176 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/08 21:06:44
Yeah school's just out for summer, so I'll presume working on my map shortly and should have plenty of time. I'll let you know when it's near completion so you can test it, and I'll see what I can do regarding Qexpo. Cheers!
I Think The Czg Curves Are More Proportional
#11177 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/09 00:52:54
Some of your shots look more like a perfect circle, but this one aint so good:
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
The top, bottom, left and right sides are 4 units long, but all the other sides would be much closer to 3 units long if you measure them.
I would never ever do this on purpose either:
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
It seems silly to divide the large face. I would just make the incision where the angle is. It would be great if you needed the textures on either side of the join to be different.
This however is a lovely circle, I have never used a 16 sided circle, I stick to 12 or 24, 90% of the time i use 12 sides, but I could adopt this method quite happily:
http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.w...
Really nice bit of brushwork that, eh. :D
#11178 posted by gb [46.142.7.176] on 2011/06/09 02:24:08
Nice polygon builder plugin, rather.
I agree that different circles have their uses. In arches specifically I like to see more than 12 sides to the hypothetical circle though. Personally. 16 work quite well there.
The cylinder you criticized was done for demonstration purposes more than anything, that's just how it came out of the polygon builder. I agree that it doesn't look so good. 16 sided circles do normally look good, but the proportions are wrong on that one.
Bad Surface Extents Crash
#11179 posted by Tronyn [174.2.53.253] on 2011/06/09 06:36:35
I know this is supposed to be an error that occurs when you have surfaces in your level with textures that are hugely stretched (over 10x)... the biggest that I have in this map is 4x though... anyone know any other causes for this?
Vertex Count?
#11180 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/09 11:35:40
run bspinfo - how many vertexes and clipnodes do you have? How many marksurfaces? Anything over 65000?
#11181 posted by negke [89.204.137.140] on 2011/06/09 12:41:01
Inspect the area around the coordinates the compiler gives you and try to narrow it down to a number of brushes. It could be a back face somewhere that got stretched by accident. It seems kind of strange that a huge texture scale can cause problems (too small is another thing) - I presume this is only the case when one axis is stretched a lot while is other isn't.
If it was caused by vertexes, qbsp should have displayed a warning about the limit being exceeded.
On a completely unrelated note, can anyone check if boss2\death.wav is looped?
Anyone Have A Link
#11182 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/09 20:49:33
to the most recent quoth .fgd?
Re: Bad Surface Extents
#11183 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/09 21:09:45
i've gotten this sometimes, i think, with hugely large brushes.
That Is To Say
#11184 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/09 21:10:21
brushes stretched beyond normal sized, like 999999 wide or something, usually from an editor malfunction.
24
#11185 posted by ijed [190.22.61.10] on 2011/06/10 03:20:40
Is where its at. I've experimented some, but I'm not that good at the math and also haven't put together any type of tutorial to the effect.
The best I've seen recently was made by Rj - I trisoup double helix spiraling down as a lift shaft. It's an unreleased map and could arguably have been done with a texture, but was one of those things you see as a mapper and have to appreciate the time it must have take.
For a really good example of curve brushwork (the best I've seen personally) look at SPoG's spogsp1 for Quake2 - there's all sorts of amazing brushwork in that.
No link, sorry.
#11186 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/06/10 04:14:42
fun fact... the dam in rub2m1 is based on a 48-sided cylinder.
Yeah
#11187 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/10 04:19:44
I was suitably impressed. That was some impressive brushwork.
Also
#11188 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/10 04:19:58
Spog is a wizard.
Neat
#11189 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/10 04:45:43
I was actually wondering how the dam was created with such a smooth, natural curve when I first played that map, and knowing the method it was based on now, it makes a lot of sense. Nice.
#11190 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/10 08:12:07
if boss2\death.wav is looped?
CoolEdit tells not.
Thanks
#11191 posted by negke [89.204.153.197] on 2011/06/10 09:46:48
I had an issue where it wouldn't stop looping. Which is even more incomprehendable now. Fortunately I could work around it.
Ijed
#11192 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/06/10 21:37:18
The best I've seen recently was made by Rj - I trisoup double helix spiraling down as a lift shaft. It's an unreleased map and could arguably have been done with a texture, but was one of those things you see as a mapper and have to appreciate the time it must have taken.
shame it got ruined by those hundreds of ugly lighting triangles!!
#11193 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/10 22:49:13
ugly lighting triangles!!
i HATE those!
Theoretically
#11194 posted by ijed [190.163.202.230] on 2011/06/11 08:49:30
What'd be the solution?
Just increasing the lightmap texture size?
Forcing QBSP To Split The Face Differently
#11195 posted by negke [89.204.153.231] on 2011/06/11 09:20:05
By slightly increasing the texure scale on it or changing the offset. If necessary split the face half manually and change one half of it.
I hate those too. Fixing them is annoying and time-consuming.
Regarding The Dam In Rub2m1
#11196 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/11 18:15:03
How were the support beams underneath the walkway created? As seen in this screenshot.
I've tried making beams extruding from the middle of curved corners before, but when working with angles that are anything other than 45 degrees and using vertex manipulation, I find it impossible to maintain the correct width and angle of the brush according to the curves, and rotating it just makes it go off grid. Something like this is what I've attempted to create with no luck.
And how about the sloped curves going along the side of the dam? I checked out the map source and they fit the curve of the dam perfectly while having an angled slope, but when I've attempted this I always get invalid brushes and have to cut each brush into two triangles for it to work. Are there any decent tutorials for any of these methods online? Also what editor was used for the map?
Thanks etc
Please Help Me :S
#11197 posted by mapper [213.231.139.148] on 2011/06/11 18:19:21
Mans i need help with quark please :(
It says : Didn't Split The Polygon and Build Failed :( please :(:(:(
Bernsten
#11198 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 20:25:47
here's what i do:
you have two identically ratio'd curves:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
in radiant, and probably most editors out there, edge selection will show the center of a brush's edge:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
choose the width of the cross piece you want to add (here, it'll be roughly 32 units)
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
remember to keep in mind that making a diagonal this way makes the brush slightly thinner. however, that's less important than making sure you choose points that line up on the grid:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
skew your cross piece brush so the side that buts up against your curve is parallel.
use the edge handles to align the centers so that your crosspiece sits in the middle of the brush:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
now, simply stretch that brush outwards to meet the outer curve, again, using the edge handles to align the crosspiece to the center of the outer curve brush.
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
boom. done.
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
Forgot To Add, But Fairly Obvious In The Images
#11199 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 20:27:19
i left the brush offset by 1 unit so you can see the relative positions, obviously in ed7.jpg, i slid the edge back the 1 unit to connect it properly.
Cheers!
#11200 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/11 20:41:22
That's quite ingenious. Maybe one of the reasons I haven't been able to do this is because there is no skew function in QuArK as far as I know. Maybe I should just switch to radiant or something...
#11201 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 21:55:34
if you're working with 12 sided curves, it makes things much easier too, because you know that every 1/4 ratio'd vertex will be on the grid, so you have a lot of selection when it comes to deciding where you want to place the crosspiece corners and then the middle bit of the curve that's on 45 degrees is of course simple, because the whole edge is on the grid.
#11202 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/11 22:13:43
Yeah I figured, been using mostly 12 sided curves throughout my map. As I mentioned I've had to cut slopes into two triangles if I want to place them alongside a curve, otherwise this happens when using vertex manipulation in QuArK: from this to this. I imagine being able to use the skew tool would circumvent this as I've seen sloped curves that are a single brush and not cut in two, again using the dam as an example.
Could you confirm if this works in radiant? If so I'll just switch over immediately as it would make working with such architecture a hell of a lot easier, and QuArK has a few annoying quirks and bugs anyway. Also, how good is WC for mapping with Quake and advanced brushwork vs radiant?
Ew Yuck No.
#11203 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 23:15:26
don't do that. :x the outer edges of the brush won't match the curve. then you'll have to manually resize it.
what i do is first make the sloped brush whatever size, but being on large grid makes it simpler.
then i skew the edge so that the inner part matches the curve:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
then, i extrude the face outwards so it goes far past where it should end:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
with the clipper, i just lop the extra parts off, by following the same line as the curve itself:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
to complete the curve, i take the bit i just made, copy it, rotate and mirror it so it fits on the bottom part.
then, i copy the same part, and skew it so that the inner edges match (just like before) but now the leading vertices will be fucked up, so i just grab those and put them where the previously placed vertices (from the first 2 sloped brushes) are.
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
this took me about 10 seconds? 20 maybe.
#11204 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/12 00:56:46
Yeah I've used that exact method before when mapping with Hammer, but when I attempt the final step of aligning the vertices with QuArK I always get the fucked up brushes like in the image I posted for some reason, so I always end up having to split the brush in two. That's why I wanted to know if it works properly in radiant.
Would You Say
#11205 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/12 06:26:04
curves are generally easier to deal with using Radiant over WC/ other editors?
#11206 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/12 07:44:53
maybe there's something i missed, but i don't think WC can extrude a face out/inwards along the axis of it's edges. it can only stretch brushes which is, afaik, completely useless. i don't know why you'd ever want to stretch a brush in that way. what i mean is:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
top brush is the original. when you try to resize the brush, note the angled edge's profile is destroyed.
i don't know any way to prevent this behaviour.
i seem to recall czg's curve tut relied on this odd deformation, but since it's completely possible to replicate the curves with extrusion, there's really no need for such a strange method of brush manip.
so yeah, for that alone, i find it much easier to make curves in radiant.
once you've got a curve of one radius, you have a curve of ALL radii, since you can just extrude faces out/in.
in those little clips i posted, the brush for the outer curve was the same as the brush for the inner curve. i just pulled the top edge upwards and then pushed the bottom edge up to match the width-- the length of the brush was preserved relative to the size of the curve. i don't think that's possible in WC.
otoh, if it IS, someone PLEASE tell me how. it'll make my hl2 mapping a lot quicker. i always change my mind about working on hl2 stuff because i dread using wc brush manip. :x
The One Advantage Of Stretching
#11207 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/06/12 12:19:50
is that it works with multiple brushes selected; i'm not sure radiant can scale multiple brushes like that at once? so taking an entire corridor and curving it round becomes possible (via czg's stretch & skew method)
for individual brushes i just use VM.. just a case of selecting all verts at one end and either dragging or nudging using the arrow keys, like so
of course once you skew the brush it becomes a tad less simple, but seeing as i only ever use this kind of 12-sided curve (ie. flat at the top/bottom/sides) the only diagonals ever needed are either 2:1 or 1:2, which is easy to keep track of when pulling or nudging vertexes around. likewise when you are lining them up round the edges of a curve, the diagonal between the point and the centre of the curve will either be 1:4, 3:3* or 4:1, so nudging vertexes becomes simple. see 1, 2, 3
(in this example however you'd have to clip it at a 4:7 ratio, which is a lot less user friendly (and neat :) ))
for 24 sided curves i use this; again just a case of remembering the diagonal ratios.. 4:1, 2:1, 1:1, 1:2, 1:4, joined from the corners to the middle at 1:8, 2:5, 10:13, 13:10, 5:2, 8:1. bit harder to remember that one admittedly ;p - nudging vertexes can be a bit of a headache. but that's the price you pay for sexy curves, alas
(* - technically 1:1 but putting 3:3 keeps it in scale with the other two)
#11208 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/06/12 12:28:59
otherwise this happens when using vertex manipulation in QuArK: from [this] to [this].
that's weird.. i don't know about radiant but in WC, VM would work fine so long as the inner and outer edges end up parallel. even if a user mistake means they don't end up parallel, WC can still render it illegally - it just won't export to .map properly. so you can always correct it later (the vertexes will still be where you left them in the .rmf)
i don't really know how radiant handles vertexes but i remember one radiant user being surprised at learning how lenient WC's VM is when it comes to illegal brushes; so i'd guess radiant's is more strict and less flexible? judging by how most radiant users seem to avoid VM for stuff like this, that would seem plausible :)
I Knew I'd Mess Up Somewhere In All That Image Linking
#11209 posted by rj [86.0.166.158] on 2011/06/12 12:34:12
24-sided curve - again flat at the top/bottom/sides
Mapper
#11210 posted by roblot [216.106.107.134] on 2011/06/12 13:48:21
A texture is scaled (shrunk) too small somewhere. For textures 128 x 128 and bigger, don't scale lower than 0.5 - and for 64 x 64 textures, a scale of 0.25 can be safely done. Test what works and look at Bengt Jardrup's Tool Tips text for more.
#11211 posted by gb [46.142.20.54] on 2011/06/12 16:33:46
Radiant does vertex manipulation fine, but at least GTKR 1.5 doesn't like illegal brushes, and sometimes doesn't quite join vertices the way you'd expect. Using translate sometimes helps, or clipping, or generating a new brush that's closer to what you want (cones and stuff like that).
For general purposes, Radiant's VM is fine, if probably different from Worldcraft etc.
I use it quite a bit, combined with edge manipulation.
Roblot
#11212 posted by :( [213.231.139.148] on 2011/06/12 17:13:42
Well i try everything and i see everything and again same problem :(
Roblot
#11213 posted by :( [213.231.139.148] on 2011/06/12 17:17:32
Man i delete the Arch and it works fine but how i can do arch's and curves when i try and maps just.....failed
Curves
#11214 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/12 18:47:04
I tried the curves from czg in Quark but the possibiliy for skewing is rather detached.
From the first example everything is right
one
When I start skewing
two
happens and I'm broke. Quark starts warning for leaks whlile WC1.6 compiles well.
So I had to do the thing with substracting and this ends in bad lightning.
three
Thanks Rj
#11215 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/12 20:31:35
good to know at least that i haven't been missing something obvious. :)
for individual brushes i just use VM.. just a case of selecting all verts at one end and either dragging or nudging using the arrow keys
yeah, this is what i do. but it's a lot slower than just grabbing the edge and dragging it. in radiant, it's one step: click anywhere outside of the brush near the edge, and drag.
in wc it's multiple steps
select all the vertices, then click + drag.
also, WC's obsession with control points is annoying. i prefer radiant's 'click anywhere in this area' method of moving. i mean, obviously, vertex manip uses control points too. but you can avoid having to use it by having the ability to simply drag out faces of a brush.
to be fair, i'm still not as familiar with WC as i am with radiant, so i'm sure a bit of 'slowness' or clunky feelings i have for WC is still due to that, but even factoring that in, i still find radiant faster.
otoh, i do like how WC doesn't complain about a brush until later. radiant runs it's 'brush legality' checks while you're manip'ing vertices. it's technically more accurate since it'll never let you screw up, but it also stops you from making a shape that would be legal but requires moving through an illegal form first.
WC will just let you do whatever so in general, it's easier to make super complex geometry out of single brushes.
doom3's radiant is even worse for some reason, because it won't complain, but you can actually rip brushes apart (like, the faces become unconnected somehow). very weird.
MadFox
#11216 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/06/12 21:23:48
It certainly comes from the "famous" floating point feature support that QuArK is suffering from...
Except if you have some time to waste, you can inspect all polygon corners' coordinates and try to realign it on grid.... but not sure whether it will solve the issue... though... experiment ;)
:( + Practice = :)
#11217 posted by roblot [216.106.107.42] on 2011/06/13 00:05:52
Mans, you just need more practice.
:( + Practice = :)
#11218 posted by roblot [216.106.107.42] on 2011/06/13 00:07:51
Mans, you just need more practice.
Sure
#11219 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/13 06:55:55
One of the maps suffered leaks in Quark6.1, while starting it up with WC1.6 gave a good outcome. It only shows that with the same compilers the editor always is the weak link.
I just find it odd to see those examples and trying them out only ends up with peeling out the manual where I can find my purpose to the buttons. Sometimes they're there, others not.
#11220 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/13 08:16:24
the more i think about it, the less likely i think that the floating point stuff is the issue.
a little while ago, i found that qe3 worked better with floating point enabled. aguirre's bsp was fully able to cope with decimals with even the most complex tri-souping.
i think it might be that quark is mangling the brushes in some other way that may not be immediately obvious.
#11221 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/13 12:52:45
Is there a full guide somewhere to getting radiant set up and working for Quake? I'm curious to give it a try. I'm very comfortable with WC atm, but if fiddly manipulation is better in radiant it'd be nice.
For All Quark Users
#11222 posted by roblot [216.106.107.83] on 2011/06/13 13:58:03
It's Quark's export to .map software code that is messin around wit your minds. It does not copy and paste the map coordinates from the .qrk file to .map
I opened func_city_04-13-11.zip in the Bsp editor with all brush coordinates exactly as would be seen in radiant/qe3. Then I opened the Quark revised func_city_04-15-11.zip. If you look at the alpha windows, which were not edited at all in Quark (only exported and saved), you'll see they are messed up. On top of that, Quark basically took quite a few on-the-grid brushes off the grid also. These files are in the Speedmapping Thread.
Wouldn't simple copy and paste code fix it?
Quark
#11223 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/13 17:14:59
seems to be pretty shitty as a level editor. Who uses it? Madfox, trinca -- who else?
All The Noobs
#11224 posted by negke [89.204.153.227] on 2011/06/13 17:25:04
JPL, too... Bring on the inquisition!
It seems it's a matter of proper configuring. The established Quark users here seem to have no problem with floats. So it's probably some bad default setting.
Most editors have a snap-to-grid function. This should take care of these things in one quick swipe - selecting the whole map and snap. Though there's still a small change some vertices might snap wrong and invalidate the whole brush.
#11225 posted by Spirit [82.113.121.192] on 2011/06/13 17:57:35
Quark is the most user friendly and feature rich editor out there. Period.
It fails sometimes on non-cubic brushes though. It is also rather slow and Windows only.
I Use QuArK
#11226 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/13 18:08:45
I actually think it's a pretty good editor with a pleasant and user-friendly interface, and the tree-view is very handy, but because of some annoying quirks I'm contemplating on switching. Tried out WC with the Quake adapter but because of an extremely finicky setup (like needing Quake installed on the c: drive and I already have it installed on d:), I'm gonna try out radiant. Shame though, as the skew/vertex manipulation features are quite easy to handle in WC.
...although I still couldn't bloody figure out how to create those support beam things along a many-sided curve with correct width and perspective, the brushes always end up slightly disproportional and with an odd angle, even when using skew. It's fine and dandy when only working with 12-sided cylinders, but from 16+ it starts getting problematic.
#11227 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/13 18:22:05
All right, I finally figured out how to skew with QuArK, but how the hell do you skew a single brush? The bounding box with the middle selection handles that allows you to skew (like in this screenshot MadFox posted only appears when selecting multiple brushes.
Have You Tried Intalling It On The D:?
#11228 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/13 18:24:10
Worldcraft I mean. It's not a difficult editor to set up. I deleted the prgram All_wads_To_HLWads.exe in favour of using TexMex to convert wads to Half-Life format. It's worth downloading the Hammer 3.5 executable, and dropping that in place of the Worldcraft .exe.
But as much as the QuakeAdapter makes it easy, fast and convenient to get you started, there is nothing stopping you from running Worldcraft from any DIR. You can easily configure it, and although I'm sure at the time Quakeadapter was put together it's compilers were the best current compilers - well, they aren't anymore. I have long since replaced them with better compilers (with the exception of TXQBSP which is *THE* best compiler. evar.)
I compile my maps from the command prompt anyway. Worldcraft gives the full location of the wad files in the .map file header too, so you can export your .map file to anywhere on your HDD and compile it from there, and as long as you leave your wads where they were when you were building your map, the compiler will find them.
If I were you, I would try running Worldcraft again.....
And there's always .BSP editor........
If That's The Case
#11229 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/13 18:32:00
would copy pasting the same brush twice at the same spot, skewing and then deleting the spare work?
Yeah That Worked
#11230 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/13 18:50:39
Still didn't make it much easier to work with though unfortunately, as when I'm dragging vertices in one view the editor always seems to compensate for it, like here where I tried to align the vertices along the curve in the top view and the lower edge got dragged downwards. That was just an example image that I threw together to show what happens and not a serious attempt at creating a curve, but this is what happens no matter what I try, and skew didn't seem to work around this either. Oh well, time to try out WC again then I guess, where this is unproblematic...
#11231 posted by roblot [216.106.106.155] on 2011/06/13 19:17:47
I think Quark is also a great editor, but has some purposely corrupt coding is in the export to .map - This problem is easy to solve with copy and paste. The arches in func_city_04-13-11 are set at 2 unit resolution, something trinca said he avoided. On export, Quark goes through "extra software mutilation code" to get to it's .map file.
So forget the float precision, Quark doesn't even let you get 2 unit precision on angled brushes.
So..,
#11232 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/13 23:25:04
I work with Quark since it was an early Qmap version in the late 98, so I'm very contributed to it. Skewing with one brush only goes by setting angle of a brushside.
But then you miss gridclipping of course.
My simple outcome is when I make a map In Quark with complicated brushes the leak error grows.
When I import the same map into WC1.6 and it compiles well with the same compilers it reduces Quark in compare to the WC1.6.
I'm doing with QRadiant and it is a RTFM job to get familiar with.
My interest grow to BSP which has an update to 96, since I learned to know it in QBSP94b.
Berntsen:
#11233 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/06/14 23:47:47
sorry i didn't reply earlier, but it appears necros did a pretty good job of explaining everything you asked.
No Worries
#11234 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/15 01:53:23
Yeah necros got me on the right path (thanks again), just fiddling around with different techniques at the moment.
Also got Hammer 3.5 to work with Quake, had no idea it was even compatible, so thanks for the tip Ricky! Although I did encounter something strange... made a test map, saved as .map and it compiled fine, closed the editor and later when I opened the map again it was completely empty. I guess it's not much of a problem as I can save as .rmf just fine, just found it a bit odd.
And bear with me here, but how do you make the extra parameters for the compile tools work in Hammer? In the advanced compile menu I wrote "-soft -extra 4 -gate1" without the quotes as a parameter for $light_exe, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Light 1.43 by Bengt Jardrup.
I Think You Have To Put The Commands Inside The Quotes
#11235 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/15 02:17:06
I would keep to using the .rmf format rather than the .map format. The .rmf contains a lot more data than is outputted into the .map file, like vis-groups for example, as well as containing the extra texture information generated by the valve 220 protocol. This is a pain if you plan on using other editors to make your map, because the data seems to corrupt when loaded into editors which dont support the 220 protocol.
The good thing is that the Hammer editor's texture lock feature works really well - you can really speed up texture alignment because of it because you can clip, copy, paste and most importantly rotate as much as you like, and the textures stay aligned.
Correction:
#11236 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/15 02:22:27
You have to press F9 to compile your map from the editor, and that is where you add your commands. You have to press F9 then click on the button "expert".
#11237 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 01:23:31
Didn't get around to trying this out before now, but yes, apparently putting the commands inside quotes work. At least, the compiler seems to recognize the parameters "-extra4" and "-etp" as "Extra 4x4 sampling enabled
Enhanced Texture Positioning enabled" appeared in the compile process window, but "-soft 1" and "-gate 1" gave an "unknown option" error for some reason.
Also it didn't seem to make any difference whether I compiled with these parameters or not, here's two comparison shots from compiling with and without:
http://i.imgur.com/IlsWS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/36dNX.jpg
#11238 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/17 03:02:20
try compiling from batch files/command prompt, or try my ne_q1spcompiler thing.
i seem to recall running the compilers in the editor console wasn't good for some reason. maybe someone can confirm/refute?
#11239 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/17 03:03:21
I think the options are -soft1 and -gate1.
#11240 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 04:57:11
Your compiler thing did the trick necros, that's quite a nifty tool you got there! Though I noticed I couldn't choose a map saved as .rmf to compile, and due to the oddity of maps saved as .map in Hammer turning up empty, I'm thinking it wouldn't be a problem if I just save the map (from .rmf) as .map when I'm ready to compile? Or would crucial information stored in the .rmf get lost?
jt_, soft1 and gate1 also gave the "unknown option" error. Guess the in-editor compiler isn't all that.
Also, while I'm at it - know if it's possible to list textures after which wad it appears in with Hammer, like with QuArK? At the moment every texture (1000+) from all the wads I've imported appear at once in the texture browser, which makes it quite tedious to find whatever I'm looking for.
#11241 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/17 05:08:34
no, -soft # and -gate # are the correct syntax.
as for textures, hammer has a filter where you can type in to just show textures with that string.
you could rename all your textures from one wad with a prefix of some kind?
i don't know much on that score-- hl2 has the filters all set up via scripts as well as filename. so you type c17 and you get all the downtown textures.
#11242 posted by Berntsen [158.38.86.242] on 2011/06/17 05:18:09
Yeah I tried adding a suffix to all the textures so I could just type in the suffix and sort them that way, but I'd have to search and replace each texture I've already used in my map with the renamed ones, which I haven't been arsed to do yet. Eh, I'll probably work it out.
#11243 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/17 08:29:43
there's a program out there that, i think, will batch import tgas into a wad. you could extract the wad, use a batch file renamer (google) then use the batch wad importer. i think baker made it? i just remember seeing it a while ago somewhere, probably i3d.
RE #11240
#11244 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/17 12:05:43
Yes - work in .rmf format, save in .rmf format. When you want to compile, export to .map and compile.
#11245 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 17:05:25
What is it that scrags are such fucking divas when it comes to the simple task of flying into a teleporter towards the player???
#11246 posted by Zwiffle [71.86.226.202] on 2011/06/17 17:25:36
negke what is your problem specifically?
#11247 posted by negke [89.204.153.196] on 2011/06/17 17:40:34
They are awake and fly back and forth in their closets but they carefully avoid the (touchable) teleport trigger most of the time. And then, when it's too late, they sometimes all teleport in at once.
#11248 posted by Zwiffle [71.86.226.202] on 2011/06/17 17:48:47
Are you talking about teleporting in scrags? Why are they awake before they teleport in the first place?
#11249 posted by negke [89.204.153.229] on 2011/06/17 19:32:04
All monsters are woken on map start. They don't have their own teleporter each to save entities and make for a slightly more random spawning effect. I might put a door behind them that slowly pushes them into the teleporter, or just leave it like that as they apprently all do spawn eventually.
\maps\smqx11_drew1a.bsp: No Such File Or Directory ???
#11250 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/18 23:43:08
** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake
** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake... "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\nomapv...
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\txqbsp...
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
TxQBSP 1.12 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
Inputfile: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
Outputfile: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
------ LoadMapFile ------
Title: "Infiltration"
9818 faces
1621 brushes
515 entities
127 miptex
1569 texinfo
Added 26 texture frames
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
----+----+
1487 brushes read
------ CSGFaces ------
----+----+
9010 brushfaces
7010 csgfaces
6320 mergedfaces
------ SolidBSP ------
7009 split nodes
2984 solid leafs
3888 empty leafs
138 water leafs
14284 leaffaces
13054 nodefaces
------ FillOutside ------
1548 outleafs
------ MergeAll ------
4866 mergefaces
------ SolidBSP ------
----+----+
2636 split nodes
1197 solid leafs
1341 empty leafs
99 water leafs
7706 leaffaces
5761 nodefaces
------ Portalize ------
1440 vis leafs
4711 vis portals
------ Tjunc ------
5582 world edges
20228 edge points
4337 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
------ MakeFaceEdges ------
----+----+
------ GrowRegions ------
************ ERROR ************
Entity with no valid brushes or textures on line 15942
Elapsed time : 0:04
Peak memory used : 8.2 MB
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\vis.ex...
** Parameters: -fast "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake... No such file or directory
Elapsed time : 0:00
** Executing...
** Command: c:\program files\worldcraft\quaketools\light....
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake...
----- Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\quake... No such file or directory
Elapsed time : 0:00
any idea what is going on here? I have done very little since the last compile, when this worked just fine. Added a door with a clip brush.
#11251 posted by negke [89.204.137.173] on 2011/06/19 00:03:06
It needs at least one brush with a visible texture. Clip brushes in funcs only work if the boundaries are defined by visible brushes.
The Reason There Is No File Or Directory Is Because
#11252 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/19 00:17:06
The TxQBSP program failed with the error:
Entity with no valid brushes or textures on line 15942
What you need to do is go to Map => Check for Problems
Then you need to scroll to the bottom and look for something like "entity with no brush". Highlight the error, then click on goto, close the dialogue and press delete. When you press 'goto' or 'mark' (i forget), it will send the 2D view to the middle of the map.
Thanks Guys, Thought It Might Be The Door
#11253 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/19 00:19:50
One More Possibly Stupid Q
#11254 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/19 00:23:00
I want 6 buttons which will target a trigger_counter. but I want each one to also target an info notnull explosion. I know in Quoth I could simply make target2. Should I be relying on relays here or what?
Drew: Yes To Relays
#11255 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/06/19 01:26:28
You'd need to give each button a unique target and give the notnull the corresponding targetname. You'd then need six relays each triggered by one button, so that all the relays target the counter. Each relay has a different targetname, but the same target.
#11256 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/06/19 01:28:23
Are you using Quoth or not? :E
2 Unit Brushes Versus Qbsp
#11257 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/19 05:56:18
some of the face-coordinates are too close together, and may cause troubles for some build-tools
error Quark6.1 ~ QBSP
If I ignore it compiles fine.
I couldn't find it in ToolTips.
I have some small brushes on lights that are ore only 2 units. If I turn them into func_wall they may be no problem for vis but then I loos my light additions.
What can I change, surround it with a brush clip?
Muad'Clip (Children Of Duh)
#11258 posted by negke [89.204.153.172] on 2011/06/19 14:32:18
Re: scrags vs teles
Apparently flymonsters need a little more room to move for said setup to work. The teleport triggers were 8 units wide and placed against the wall. Making the room some 32 units longer, so they are now more in the open, allows the scrags to touch them properly when flying in the direction of the player. Seems they clip differently to the world than walkmonsters or something.
Thnx
#11259 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/20 06:29:16
prbly wont do it anyway though
Ugh
#11260 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/21 07:18:02
this is supposed to be an SM but still having problems here. a trigger, which was targetting a door, is no longer targetting a door. It is set up to do so as any other trigger would be, but it isn't working. any suggestions regarding what could be the problem/questions that might help?
#11261 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/21 09:38:27
door_dont_link on/off on the doors in question? that will be 90% of the problems with doors. :P
also note, linked doors with a target on each will trigger multiple times, just like unlinked doors.
linked doors with the same targetname will have problems too. i think they just don't open if there's an even number of doors.
Yeah
#11262 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/21 16:49:47
That's probably it.
A normal door without that flag looks for any other door touching its trigger area, and links it's movement to it.
If it's targeted by a trigger then that breaks.
#11263 posted by negke [89.204.137.141] on 2011/06/21 17:19:47
Not its trigger area, only the actual brushes. But yeah, when in doubt always set door_dont_link.
Door Don't Link
#11264 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/21 17:30:41
is set.
I have tried rebuilding the door. I have tried rebuilding the trigger.
I cannot figure out what it is that I changed to make the scenario which initially worked stop working.
there is a trigger once in front of the door in question, meant to trigger it. Aftewards, an ambush is meant to launch. After six buttons have been pressed, the aforementioned door is meant to lower. doors are not set to link, the door revealing the ambush monsters has a different targetname.
This is officially NOT a speedmap any longer. this sucks.
#11265 posted by negke [89.204.137.141] on 2011/06/21 18:28:21
Probably something that's too obvious to easily spot. Check angles, lip, wait, toogle, targetnames, other doors that might reach there in their extended position etc.
Yeah
#11266 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/21 19:01:45
I'm gonna take a break and see if it becomes apparent next time I look at it. if not, fuck it, I will streamline.
There Are Two Great Scraps From Czg
#11267 posted by spy [92.47.255.234] on 2011/06/22 14:43:43
czg05 & czg17, maybe we should start some competition to finish these maps? anyone? or negke should look at them, or maybe czg himself could make it. (please czg) :)
i tried to combine two maps into one proper map, but i stucked for lack of inspiration for almost three years now.
#11268 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/22 20:31:16
i'd sure like to see something made out of czg05 scraps. or even just with lunaran's doom textures.
Yeah
#11269 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/22 20:47:35
that shit would have been incredible. that scrap as it is is pretty incredible, actually.
SKIP And DarkPlaces
#11270 posted by negke [89.204.153.138] on 2011/06/22 21:49:21
Skip as a visiblity blocket does not work on DarkPlaces as its traceline hits surfaces, not solids in the bsp like regular engines. It still clips, but monsters can see through it.
Skip should only work if it unlinks the texture from the leafs, which the current ones don't.
There may be a DP gameplayfix (default off), but it's uncertain.
So... once again DP fucks us over. >:(
No doubt it's all logical and technically correct, but as so often incompatible to 'standard' Quake engines.
Well...
#11271 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/06/22 22:29:57
Current skip tools are built on a hack, which only works if your engine follows closely to how stock engines handled BSPs. (for example, Fitzquake 0.75 doesn't support skips because I didn't know about them at the time. (Fixed in 0.80.))
So it's not really darkplaces' fault that the hack fails, unless LH considered it a priority to support levels that use it (which would be nice, but then again skip is more of a mapper thing, and Lordhavoc lives more in the modder world, and things that are important in one community are sometimes not even a blip on the radar in the other community.)
#11272 posted by negke [89.204.153.138] on 2011/06/22 22:57:07
Yes, that makes sense.
I always consider the old stock engines as benchmark for all things Q1SP and I can't recall a single map of mine where I wasn't screwed by DP in one way or another. But then the response is all "don't use hacks then, use qc" and I'm wtf, mind the roots, even though there's some truth in it. It wouldn't be much of problem if the engine was only popular among the modders, but unfortunately every other newbie uses it as well which can easily lead to confusion when encountering such an issue. Oh well.
Just posted it as FYI to keep in mind the people here if using skip in their maps.
QRadiant 1.5
#11273 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/24 19:53:46
I got the program running, but it can't find my mapfile.
So I took the map that comes with the program but I still receive the error.
What is wrong with the path file?
http://members.home.nl/gimli/donke...
#11274 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/24 21:39:48
hqbsp?
use \ instead of / ?
#11275 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/24 23:34:03
I just used the internal build path from Qradiant. The screen says [bsp] [*.map]
#11276 posted by gb [46.142.15.29] on 2011/06/25 21:45:48
It seems to expect the map in id1. That's crap I think. Try compiling by hand (not using the build menu, but run the compilers in a terminal). That's what I do.
Or change the settings for the build menu.
Right
#11277 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/06/26 06:14:57
Thanks, I'll try it out.
I placed the map in Id/maps.
When it didn't work I chose the one in C:\Program Files\GtkRadiant 1.5.0\q1.game\id1\qr001.map
It seems the program GtkRadiant/hbsp diesn't see the map
Spiral Staircases
#11278 posted by jt_ [68.42.82.10] on 2011/06/26 15:35:22
Are there any tutorials on making spiral staircases, or maybe just some advice about making them?
I Would Make A Basic
#11279 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/26 16:09:34
Spiral staircase by making a 12-sided circular room, as per the czg tutorial, Then make the wedges for the stairs. There are only 2 actually different shaped brushes they you would have to make, you can then make the rest of the staircase by copy, pasting and rotating those two. My coag3 map has an example of this.
#11280 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/06/26 16:13:51
http://rickyt23.com/maps/coag3rick...
There's the source, the spiral staircase is at the origin of the map (0,0)
Ricky: File Not Found
#11281 posted by jt_ [68.42.82.10] on 2011/06/27 05:02:36
#11282 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/27 10:17:20
http://rickyt23.com/maps/coag3_ric...
00ps!
#11283 posted by RickyT23 [86.172.175.149] on 2011/06/27 10:17:47
Missed an underscore......
Where Are The Vanilla Textures For Mapping?
#11284 posted by moGGimus [96.236.125.248] on 2011/06/29 03:33:41
Sorry to ask such a noob question, but I've been searching for hours. I just want to get started on a map using the plain vanillaQuake texture set. Quaddicted has a texture archive, but it's just a long file list and I have no idea which files just contain the plain Quake textures.
Where can I get a plain Quake texture set wad?
#11285 posted by digs [94.41.13.98] on 2011/06/29 04:11:55
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/qua...
If you use (Gtk|Net)Radiant, put quake.wad into /quake/id1 directory
#11286 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/29 08:43:17
http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/qua... <-- removed the period that got attached to the url. :)
Eww
#11287 posted by Spirit [80.171.29.140] on 2011/06/29 11:45:39
leave your period off Quaddicted please!
Also check out timfixed.wad
Thanks
#11288 posted by moGGiimus [96.236.115.148] on 2011/06/29 20:36:45
Thanks a bunch guys.
How Does One Make An Fgd File?
#11289 posted by Drew [98.124.8.136] on 2011/07/12 03:37:23
Eg. for ne_dynamic?
Blood, Sweat And Tears
#11290 posted by jt_ [174.253.12.89] on 2011/07/12 03:58:12
Just kidding. It's not that hard once you get the somewhat clumsy syntax down. There's a page on the valve developer wiki about the general syntax. Take a look at the fgd that czg (afaik) for quake. Just google quake fgd czg and it should show right up.
Ok
#11291 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/12 05:54:43
i'll figure this out i guess. but holy fuck. whoever wrote that parser is a goddamn moron. needlessly complex for something so simple.
#11292 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/12 06:13:29
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
doesn't work though. crashes the editor when i try to add it in the game from the game configurations tab! XD
gotta love the guy who codes up a fancy method of defining stuff, but doesn't code up any error handling.
hopefully someone who knows what to look for will take a look because i have no idea what's wrong with it.
FGDeath
#11293 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/07/12 23:16:50
I tried to find a way to put this delicately but...you're overflowing the error buffer which causes hammer to hang. If I cut out half of the fgd file I get errors back.
Fixes in the order I find them...
Line 26
Float isn't a valid type in old versions of hammer, you just call numeric fields "integer" and then put floats in them anyway. Change float to that and you get back "expecting identifier" - which means in this case that the colon is missing between (integer) and "search.... Change that and you get back "expecting integer" because quoting the value "512" makes it a string. Lastly I suspect that old versions of fgd don't support long descriptions, so I removed that from the line and it finally loads. Final line 26:
distance(integer) : "Search distance for autoconnect." : 512
Line 37
Mostly same problems, I think you can safely remove an empty string default. as fixed:
target(string) : "The first node."
Line 38, 39
Ditto.
By now you should be able to work your way to line 62 fixing things by rote. At line 62 I think your description exceeds some buffer length because I got a "expecting string" error which went away when I trimmed it to a single sentence. The same problem seems to cause crashes later in the fgd because trimming some longer strings took it from freezing hammer to loading without errors(once all the previous fixes has been applied).
We have to go all the way to line 94 to find something new to fix, because you want to actually have a non-integer default. It's not too bad though, all we do is change the field type to string, then leave "0.1" as quoted. When it comes to field types hammer doesn't actually care...
As a final trick, we can redefine the type of some of the target fields to benefit from the hammer dependency tracing. If you change target from (string) to (target_destination) and targetname from (string) to (target_source) then hammer can "Show Connections" between those entities. It's not necessary to make it function and it's a fringe benefit but still nice to know.
Fully fixed at
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapter...
Thank You!
#11294 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/13 00:09:14
I tried to find a way to put this delicately but...you're overflowing the error buffer which causes hammer to hang. If I cut out half of the fgd file I get errors back.
heh, don't worry about it! :) that's actually pretty funny.
i see there are some entries where i put in the wrong strings in so i'll have to fix those, but do you mind if i go ahead and just steal your file and attach it to the webpage after i make the modifications?
Go Right Ahead
#11295 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/07/13 00:28:35
n/t
This Is Awesome
#11296 posted by Drew [98.124.8.136] on 2011/07/13 03:04:59
thanks for this Preach/Necros!
Just to confirm - the above link will provide a functioning fgd for the mod?
Yeah
#11297 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/13 03:21:07
but use this one: http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
i corrected mislabeled entries where i accidentally put in a description instead of the actual name, so you'd see the description in the entity inspector window which was usually too long.
there's nowhere to put detailed info though, so just open up the .ent file in the original archive in a text editor and you can read the more verbose entity descriptions.
Cool
#11298 posted by Drew [98.124.8.136] on 2011/07/13 03:27:32
thanks again, might try to make a little thing with this.
Oh Btw
#11299 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/13 03:27:43
don't hesitate to email bugs to me if you find any! :)
Mdl2map
#11300 posted by Pops [71.233.210.25] on 2011/07/13 07:48:36
Does anyone know where to find this where the .map will open in hammer 3.5 ?
#11301 posted by jt_ [68.42.82.10] on 2011/07/14 00:22:39
it's in openquartz.
NetRadiant For Open Arena. Where Do Textures Go.
#11302 posted by Orion [92.5.2.182] on 2011/07/15 13:12:58
I'm doing some mapping for Open Arena in NetRadiant. Now for some reason my texture have decided not to load up in my texture browser. My question is where abouts do you put the textures once you've unpacked them from the pak file. At the moment I have them in a folder called textures in NetRadiant's baseoa folder. Thanks for any help.
Dont Know
#11303 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/07/15 13:30:43
But this might help you:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.ph...
Makes little sense to me but i never used netradiant. I did read from the link above that you shouldn't unpack anything.....
Hope this helps :D
The Common Shaders
#11304 posted by Orion [92.5.2.182] on 2011/07/15 16:26:50
Thanks for your help. That seems to have done the job.
But I often get this problem where the "common" shaders don't load properly, and whenever I fix it it seems to be by accident and I don't actually know what I did.
This is what i'm talking about...
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums...
Staircase: When To Use Func_wall And When Not To
#11305 posted by raptorE [99.34.41.197] on 2011/07/20 05:28:34
What is the most elegant solution when building a staircase? A staircase creates a large number of triangles and shreds any adjacent faces even more triangles. But, because func_walls do not cast shadows, I hesitate to make every step a func_wall.
The solution I came up with is to have the wall and steps as regular brushes, but to include a sort of railing between them which is itself a func_wall. The stairs appear to be flush with the wall, but they are not. It also adds some nice detail.
However, depending on where the lights are placed it creates some bizarre shadows on the opposing side of the staircase. I had some success by creating a regular brush that hides inside the func_wall version, touching nothing but casting a shadow. But this is less elegant and more messy.
At this point, I’m not sure what to do. Is there a better way?
New To Quake 1 Mapping
#11306 posted by RaptorShadow [58.167.193.158] on 2011/07/20 12:30:21
Hey guys. I'm trying to use GtKRadiant for Quake mapping, but I'm having tons of trouble.
I got the vanilla id textures from Quaddicted and have GtKRadiant itself working.
I made a test box map and am compiling it with hmap2. That appears to work. But when I load it up in Quake, the textures I've chosen don't appear, instead just a placeholder checkerboard texture on every surface.
What am I doing wrong?
OK, I Dont Know About Radiant, But....
#11307 posted by RickyT23 [86.140.233.0] on 2011/07/20 12:50:58
When you export your .map file, you can open it in a text editor (i.e. Notepad), and at the top of the document is the Worldspawn information. There is also meant to be a line which tells the compiler where the .wad files are located. I would check that this location is correct. You can use full root loactions (i.e. "C:\quake\mywads\id.wad"...
Success!
#11308 posted by raptorshadow [58.167.193.158] on 2011/07/20 12:59:54
Excellent! Worked like a charm. Thank you :)
Just in case, is there any particular trick to using multiple wads?
What You Do Is
#11309 posted by RickyT23 [86.140.233.0] on 2011/07/20 13:11:28
Separate the wad locations with a semi-colon.
Example:
"wad" "C:\quake\mywads\id.wad; C:\quake\mywads\mynexwad.wad; C:\quake\mywads\mylastwad.wad"...
Stairs
#11310 posted by ijed [190.22.105.3] on 2011/07/20 16:39:58
It really depends on the complexity of what you're building.
And lots of triangles probably isn't as bad as you think if its in a closed in area.
Post a screenshot so we can see what you're wanting to do.
Yeah
#11311 posted by RickyT23 [86.140.233.0] on 2011/07/20 17:23:05
With limits of 65000 triangles (or 32000 in really old engines), then a few stairs is not really a problem. Trying to over-simplify the architecture by lifting brushes off the ground etc seems like a good idea, but in reality it often creates more portals and clipnodes.
Stairs
#11312 posted by raptorE [99.34.41.197] on 2011/07/22 04:59:35
Thank you guys for the quick responses. I'm going to keep working at it, and if anything significant turns up I'll return. :)
Help..
#11313 posted by delor [151.16.124.143] on 2011/07/22 20:15:13
just for curiosity(eheh)
What if I use progs.dat from Nehahra?
what implications could arise?(eg. one must have Nehahra installed to play my mod?)
I'm creating my own little progs(small changes such as bg-music,deleted weapons I don't need,..)
BUT really I cannot implement a damn working camera for cutscenes!
And I didn't suspect that Quake is so limited with text/message entities!
I need large portions of colored text viewable on screen at different times during my mod for briefing and storytelling.. suggestions please ?
#11314 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 20:27:22
for that... you should probably ask at inside3d and get ready to learn csqc. :P
#11315 posted by delor [151.16.124.143] on 2011/07/22 20:39:48
necros what is csqc? what is that "cs" ?
-already asked at inside3d.. with poor results.. they waste time in minor useless code details but weren't able to explain what I need
My Dream Would Be..
#11316 posted by delor [151.16.124.143] on 2011/07/22 20:45:18
.. making a Q1 machinima in the vein of Nehahra(kudos and respect to it!).. but still missing a camera code and text entities.
Besides I'd prefer stick with my own progs.dat(so no Zerstorer,Custents,etc..)
#11317 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 21:32:36
i dunno what the cs stands for. but it's special engine supported code (requires engines like darkplaces) so you can change the hud or add stuff like text and such.
Client Side
#11318 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/07/22 21:39:29
Oh Hey
#11319 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 21:59:23
thanks :)
Necros..
#11320 posted by delor [151.16.124.143] on 2011/07/22 22:26:04
one question.. have u ever used cutscenes in your map?
Nope
#11321 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 22:40:41
i personally can't stand cutscenes unless they're like super short like a couple of seconds or something.
#11322 posted by quakis [81.111.135.140] on 2011/07/22 22:55:48
I'm probably missing something obvious here but not having much luck. How do I set an ambient light level? Using QuakeEd3.1.
#11323 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 23:34:51
'light' key
#11324 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/07/22 23:35:01
oh sorry, on worldspawn. :P
Delor
#11325 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/07/23 02:33:29
RMQ has a nice bit of cutscene capability, maybe some of those guys could help to point you? or...... Join us!!!
Also
#11326 posted by ijed [190.22.108.131] on 2011/07/23 05:18:17
Zerstorer is much smaller than RMQ or Nehahra and has cutscene code.
It is unsupported but does have documentation.
And yeah, another alternative is to join RMQ...
Delor
#11327 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/07/23 05:43:52
In the "visions" map on Quaddicted.com is an example of things you want.
It's called the cck kit, a cutscene camera kit, with instructions how to change the screen ingame and centerprint messages controlling the camera to use a certain path.
It is a simple cck.qc and helps you to add the cutscenes by ways of a trigger_once for a perode of time. It's kind of slow but it works.
Play the map and you'll understand.
#11328 posted by gb [46.142.30.252] on 2011/07/27 00:18:51
pretty sure custents also contains camera code.
Yes Gb
#11329 posted by delor [151.16.124.114] on 2011/07/28 01:54:27
custents has camera code though the progs.dat is a bit messy
my desire was to try and create my own cam but really I have to give up so I guess I'll stick with one of existing progs(custents,vision,zer,nehahra) :)
Weird Stuff, I Think
#11330 posted by roblot [216.106.107.248] on 2011/07/28 14:20:03
I fixed up a bunch of animated textures awhile back and recently reinstalled all Quake stuff into a new harddrive. In Fitz I noticed the animations are now messed (pixels that didn't animate before were now animating). Even some static textures that are part of a set had a different colors ingame. In Wally, the same color was in both textures, therefore no mismatch. The only thing I forgot was installing Scourge and Dissolution (1.07 1.08). So I installed the packs and the animations are fixed. All texture sets are back to having no visable seams ingame again (these texture sets can be put next to each other and have no visable gl blend seam).
Does Fitz 0.85 rely on a particular 1.08 file for the correct palettte to show up, or is it something else? Maybe there's some different palette RGB values for this effect to occur? The Quake palette also has 12 RGB values repeated twice for some reason. Is there extra code applied to the different index numbers of the duplicated colors?
Roblot:
#11331 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/07/28 20:31:30
I don't have an answer for most of your questions, but i can answer this part:
The Quake palette also has 12 RGB values repeated twice for some reason. Is there extra code applied to the different index numbers of the duplicated colors?
The last 32 colors in the palette are "fullbright" which means they do not take lighting or shadows. Some of these fullbright colors are identical in RGB to some of the non-fullbright colors in the palette.
To figure out if fullbright pixels are the problem, try turning on r_fullbright to view the textures without lighting.
I still don't know why the problem would go away with the mission packs installed. Do the mission pack installers update anything in id1?
#11332 posted by roblot [216.106.107.196] on 2011/07/29 00:14:30
I don't really know, but when the packs are installed, regular Quake has the 1.08 in the console. So something's changed there. Btw, I first just installed the original 1.06 version in the cardboard foldout package from 15 years ago (it's still in near mint condition). I don't know if that has anything to do with it. That's when I noticed for about a day and a half there was this problem.
I'll try the r_fullbright for any other texture problems I might have though. I modified, tweeked, made, and stole over 5000 textures combined, so this was a shocker. The thing is, I'm now wondering if the texture fixes I made would be seen in the same way on every Quake setup.
#11333 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.40] on 2011/07/30 00:34:20
Any suggestions/advice for making this not look crap but without a lot of detail? The area has a huge monster count so I want to avoid a lot of geometry detail :E
Medieval castle/town thing
#11334 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/07/30 01:17:22
lighting and shadows are "free" detail -- boring lightmaps cost the same as interesting ones. So put in lots of spotlights, dramatic shadows, etc. to break up large surfaces.
Also....
#11335 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/07/30 01:18:59
Large flat surfaces are cut up into chunks with a maximum size of 240x240 -- so if you have a wall that is 1200 units long, it will be divided into 6 chunks, even with the same texture on it. So you can divide it up and put alternate textures on different chunks and potentially have zero increase of polycount.
As A Specific Example
#11336 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/07/30 02:09:50
The pair of windows in the back should each be casting a spotlight beam down the wall below, so the bright lit areas contrast with triangular shadows under the supports on that wall. The unrealistic lighting model in quake is a blessing in disguise because it's a bit like painting in soot and grime into your scene.
What They Said
#11337 posted by Drew [76.75.125.184] on 2011/07/30 04:23:00
also if it's quoth, using the model system would be beneficial.
You Know What I Mean Right?
#11338 posted by Drew [76.75.125.184] on 2011/07/30 04:23:53
Not Really
#11339 posted by ijed [190.22.5.166] on 2011/07/30 21:17:58
What you're asking, but maybe make the area more dynamic as well, in how the monsters arrive.
So having them roam along paths is a simple way of making a fight more memorable, as is having them spawn in some entertaining way - a lightning bolt and then teleport for example, or leaping through the windows into the courtyard below.
Those are pretty simplistic things that'll make the area more fun, you can probably come up with a load more.
#11340 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.81] on 2011/07/31 00:04:22
Ta for the suggestions guys. I'll have a fiddle and post another shot.
What Others Said
#11341 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/07/31 09:37:05
.. and maybe selecting another brick texture for the walls... Maybe some like in DKT3 or Doom3, or simply make your own ;)
There are also some textures that have details variation you may use...
Anyway, it looks interesting, but indeed there's lack of details and design touch tht makes the shot sexy ;)
Do Not Select A Different Texture For The Walls
#11342 posted by Drew [76.75.125.184] on 2011/07/31 16:23:29
ID1 works just fine. Stick with What Metl said - also, is it really that much more crazy than that seen in Tronyn maps? Those tend to look good and have high monster count and there haven't been *too* many complaints about r_speeds etc
Zqf
#11343 posted by gb [46.142.34.171] on 2011/08/01 12:28:10
> Any suggestions/advice for making this not look crap but without a lot of detail? The area has a huge monster count so I want to avoid a lot of geometry detail :E
Vary the floor height. Steps, for example.
The polycount looks to be really low, so I wouldn't worry at all.
Re #11331
#11344 posted by roblot [216.106.107.244] on 2011/08/01 14:50:28
Only 1 fullbright is part of the 12 duplicate colors. So the other 11 duplicates are a mystery. Id wouldn't waste 11 potential extra colors. There could be some undocumented code applied to them for additional effects.
Quake Monsters Etc Info
#11345 posted by raptorE [99.163.101.191] on 2011/08/02 05:56:21
I'd like to have a reference file for the different monsters as they appear in quake 1 that has information such as their health numbers, their attacks and what kind of damage they can do, and such information.
It would also be useful to have that information for the player's weapons.
I know that this information can be had by browsing through the .qc source, but I didn't want to reinvent the wheel if there already is such a document. Is there one?
#11346 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/02 06:20:02
some info about quake weapons:
http://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/2...
Weapons
#11347 posted by raptorE [99.163.101.191] on 2011/08/02 07:59:44
This is exactly what I was hoping to find, plus your conclusions from the stats. It's in my bookmarks, now. :)
#11348 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/02 12:13:48
i do like that iD included a room clearing weapon without making it stupidly overpowered like Doom’s BFG.
My current playing around with slaughter maps I concluded that the main advantage of the BFG in a zerg situation is that the BFG is zero risk. The RL has a huge splash radius and is very painful. I considered giving out battlesuits like candy but it feels pretty bleh and is an invitation for the player to just rocket jump around like a lunatic which isn't what I had in mind. The BFG in Doom is like a shotgun, and at anything other than medium range the BFG is actually pretty shit, and the RL is much better.
#11349 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/02 12:15:58
Oh I agree a lot on your idea of making the LG pass through enemies. It would make it the proper super weapon it should be, rather than just feeling like another nailgun with different ammo :p
<Begs for Quoth 3 lawl>
#11350 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/02 12:22:17
anything other than medium range
um, anything *beyond* rather :E
#11351 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/02 21:39:12
ruins has penetrating lightning. does full damage on up to 3 targets in a row. :)
also, when you get the SNG, the NG isn't selected during cycle up and cycle down and pressing 4 will select the SNG instead of the NG (pressing 4 twice gives you the NG).
and the fast zombies allows bullets and nails to penetrate as well, but nails 'start falling' after going through the first target so it ends up being maybe max of 5 or 6 zombies you can get with one nail if you aim upwards at the first zombie's head.
#11352 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.154] on 2011/08/02 22:11:12
also, when you get the SNG, the NG isn't selected during cycle up and cycle down and pressing 4 will select the SNG instead of the NG (pressing 4 twice gives you the NG).
And I got utterly confused and thought I had a bug.
Please do not do things like this. Some people (me) rely on weapon cycle to quickly select the weapon they want. If I know what weapons I have I can easily switch between them by using the wheel X times.
Lol
#11353 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/02 22:20:36
I agree with Spirit on that one. Sometimes, believe it or not, I like to use the NG even if I do have the SNG, for weak targets or to conserve ammo. It's easier to waste ammo with the SNG by over-shooting a target.
#11354 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/02 22:24:27
Just tap fire it? :E
I Take Back What I Just Said So Ricky And I Are Not In Agreement
#11355 posted by Spirit [80.171.97.154] on 2011/08/02 22:30:39
Yeah
#11356 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/02 23:16:57
I'm not so sure myself, maybe it is OK to customise the way the weapons work in your own mod.
#11357 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/02 23:34:57
that's unfortunate. :(
maybe better documentation was in order, but i like the new system too much to change it. :x
frankly, i find it far more annoying when someone makes a mod with the older progs sources (not 1.06) which don't have a cycle back impulse as i tend to use that solely for weapon selection.
Zero Gravity / No Z-xis Move
#11358 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/03 20:36:00
I am working on a map with some portions outside a spaceship... hence no gravity is required.
Having no gravity can be easily achieved using sv_gravity, but the player cannot move on Z-axis unfortunately... I though one moment fly mode will solve the issue but it didn't work either.
Actually I'd like to obtain equivalent behavior as noclip (in term of X-Y-Z acis move capabilities) but not passing through walls ? Is that possible ?
Maybe, But It Would Require Some Experimentation I Think.
#11359 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/03 21:07:20
i'm thinking you could do something similar to the fake water effect.
first to understand how the engine works:
quake first runs water physics on the player and only checks if the player is actually IN water afterwards.
AND
the variables that tell the engine that the player is in water can be changed via qc.
so, as long as you set the player's .waterlevel is set to 3, the engine thinks the player is swimming.
this allows you to move in all three axis. the problem is that, you also need to set the player's personal gravity (not sv_gravity) to 0 (or 0.001 since 0 defaults to 1) via the .gravity variable.
this will give you a perfect swimming physics effect. unfortunately, swimming physics has the sinking effect so you need to cancel that out somehow without stopping the player from manually swimming downwards.
note however that all this code must be done before physics are run by the engine. this means it either has to go in a touch function or in the playerPreThink function (NOT playerPostThink).
also, water physics has a lot of 'drag' on the player that causes them to stop moving quickly. so that would have to be worked around as well.
#11360 posted by raptorE [99.163.101.191] on 2011/08/04 07:34:25
I learned to map on worldcraft.
Now I want to learn to map for q1 using radiant style editors. Google reveals myriad versions of this thing, qeradiant, gtkradiant, netradiant, and others... I am confused.
So, my new dumb question is this: To map for quake 1 in the optimal radiant-based editor, where do I begin?
#11361 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/04 08:05:30
i believe the only up to date versions of radiant for q1 are either gtkradiant 1.5 or sikkpin's QE3.
gtkr 1.5 is the version that works natively for quake. they changed some controls in 1.5 from 1.4 (making 1.5 inferior, imo). it's possible but slightly hacky to use 1.4 and use a q2->q1 .map converter.
Sikkpin's QE3 is basically gtkr 1.5 but without the retarded control setup. it does have a few annoying bugs, but they are consistent and aren't anything that can't be worked around. there's nothing that will corrupted your whole map, but, for example, if you have multiple point entities selected and you undo an operation on them, all but one of them will be converted into brushes the same size as the entity was.
if you want to give sikkpin's QE3 a shot, you can get the latest version here:
http://shub-hub.com/files/tools/qe...
it's a little finicky to get set up because you have to set some directory info manually in text files, iirc.
there's a long thread here: http://www.celephais.net/board/vie... for it, but just bump it if you have questions.
supposedly, baker was going to take a look at the QE3 source and make some fixes and such, but that was a long time ago.
at least the source is available, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. wish i understood it, personally (or could even get it to compile!).
#11362 posted by gb [46.142.12.140] on 2011/08/04 11:40:38
netradiant can also be used for q1 and is slightly more up to date than 1.5.
The UI of 1.5 is a question of taste, I prefer it for example.
Another radiant question:
Textures on rotated faces sometimes show up correctly in radiant but not in game; has one of the radiant users here found a solution for it besides manually realigning those textures?
#11363 posted by gb [46.142.12.140] on 2011/08/04 11:43:12
Also, has someone successfully compiled sikkpin's qe3 on linux, or is this another lazy port?
Necros
#11364 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/04 13:27:18
I would like to stick to Quoth mod without having to compile any qc stuff (as I am definitely not an expert).. but your idea sounds good as I thought exactly the same yesterday night... so ideally outside the spaceship would be invisible water.. hence player:
- can move X-Y-Z axis without any issue (zero gravity emulation)
- will suffocate after some time without proper suit
Now the issue is how to make water invisible and how to remove the water effect ingame (i.e removing the distorsion effect when "swimming")
I think skip tool can be used for first issue (as far as I remember Metlslime provided "waterskip" texture to remove water surface, Metlsilime would be cool if he can confirm ;)... I have to experiment this). And for second issue I remember it is possible to remove the water distorsion effect, but on this I need help as I can't recall the command ;)
#11365 posted by gb [46.142.12.140] on 2011/08/04 14:35:29
Skip would remove the water texture from the surfaces. There is still the screen tint though.
Making the water an entity and setting alpha = 0.1 would make it totally transparent I think... in engines that support entity alpha.
r_wateralpha = 0.1 might also work?
r_waterwarp, IIRC, does the underwater warp. Try setting that to 0?
Gb
#11366 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/04 14:44:54
Thanks for the tips: I'll try them ;)
And indeed remains the water tint "issue"... not really a big deal actually as FitzQuake supports r_wateralpha.. Maybe it would be cool to apply it only to water, that would prevent to have a global wateralpha value for all the map... hmmm, I need to think about this..
Anyway, thanks a lot for your help necros and gb, you rock ! ;)
#11367 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [81.141.88.35] on 2011/08/04 15:08:24
WTB an engine/mod/whatever that removes those annoying graphical tints and instead adds the HUD icon of the powerup in the screen corner with a countdown like an RPG does.
A: it can really mess up visibility if you have these strong effects over the screen (see Quoth Battlesuit)
B: It's irritating not seeing the actual duration of the powerup you are using, and the 3 second fade warning is often not long enough if you're trying to design a sequence where the player has to use multiple powerups (say an area with a respawning Quad or an extended underwater sequence where the player needs to find biosuits).
#11368 posted by gb [46.142.12.140] on 2011/08/04 15:45:06
Displaying the time remaining on a powerup would be an easy qc hackjob, at least. Not sure about engine side.
I made a mod that displayed health next to the crosshair once. You can display all sorts of things in there.
Zero Gravity, 2nd Round
#11369 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/06 14:00:38
OK, using waterskip and water for zero gravity emulation is working fine.... except I still have two problem to solve:
1/ Water tint is still present despite wateralpha set to 0
=> Is it possible to remove it and make water as transparent as space emptiness ?
2/ Still remains the sounds coming from the water (e.g player jumping in water = plouf, player moving up, etc...)
=> Is there a way to remove them (and preserve suffocating noise that is interesting ;)
I hope some cvars/command/sv/gl stuff can be of use here...
Thnaks a lot in advance..
#11370 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/06 18:40:10
if there's no other water in the map, you could replace the sounds...
i did this kind of thing in ne_tower, for example. just run it as a mod of a mod (so for fitzquake, you'd run with -quoth -game jplmod instead of dumping all your files into the quoth directory (dp would be -game quoth -game jplmod)).
it's a cheap way to do it, but it works. :P
Lower-gravity Room
#11371 posted by Mandel [80.217.72.144] on 2011/08/06 20:40:42
I'm sure I've navigated through a room with lower gravity than its surroundings before. Something like... gmsp1? Did that have its own progs?
Mandel
#11372 posted by Ankh [82.145.208.16] on 2011/08/06 20:47:51
i think it was in the start map of hipnotic
#11373 posted by Spirit [80.171.95.219] on 2011/08/06 21:36:40
gmsp1 in the outside area.
Mandel:
#11374 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/08/06 23:35:56
yeah, but you don't have full swimming/noclip-style control, only standard quake air-control which is limited.
#11375 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/06 23:43:01
i wonder...
what if you turned noclip on the player, then created a dummy entity with player bbox size.
then, transfer any movement the player is trying to do to the dummy and reset player's position to the dummy every frame.
this gives you full noclip control but you won't be able to go through walls or entities because your actual position is bound by the dummy entity.
As Long As..
#11376 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/07 09:45:32
.. it does not requires qc, I am happy with any solution. As I am definitely a bad coder, I'd rather prefer to prevent from trying to code anything, and stick to existing mod/std Quake...
Well, now I have to figure out how to make all this as easy as possible... If not easy at all, no space map, I'll do something else...
and to be honest, I didn't started any piece of brush placement yet, I am just experimenting zero gravity stuff: I want make sure the effect will be realistic enough before thinking about map architecture (despite I already have an idea about what I want)
Anyway, thanks a lot for the hep.
Just Use
#11377 posted by ijed [190.22.52.152] on 2011/08/07 14:37:26
The hipnotic progs.
I think it works with a trigger_gravity or something like that.
Easy peasy.
#11378 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/08/07 14:40:21
1/ Water tint is still present despite wateralpha set to 0
=> Is it possible to remove it and make water as transparent as space emptiness ?
Have you tried gl_polyblend 0?
Hhhmmmmm !!!
#11379 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/07 15:10:52
@ijed: I know Quoth has already a trigger_setgravity that can be used for low-g area... that is coming from hipnotic progs ! After some experimentation I made recently, it is acting exactely like sv_gravity, hence the player cannot move up and down like I'd like to.. anyway, thanks to remind me this stuff.
@ontruepurple: I tried it, and it works perfectly ;) Thanks a lot for the clue ! no remains the sounds issue :D
Necros
#11380 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/07 15:31:07
I tried replacing the water related sounds by mine, but it failed pathetically with a message claiming I was not using a registred version of Quake...
Actually I tried to add a sound/player folder in which I put empty files in place of some of the related water wav files, keeping the original name... I don't know wether it is like this you were thinking about sound replacement: can you elaborate how you would do it please ?
Mad Fox
#11381 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/08/07 19:07:59
replacing the excisting wav files by silent ones with the same name...?
#11382 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/07 19:09:57
well, first, an important thing is to vis your map (using aguire's vis) with -noambientwater. this stops the engine from playing the ambient water sound.
next, make silent sounds for:
misc/h2ohit.wav
misc/outwater.wav
misc/water1.wav
misc/water2.wav
player/h2ojump.wav
player/inh2o.wav
for these sounds, just copy misc/null.wav (in pak0.pak) and rename it.
now, you will need to make some custom sounds for these:
player/h2odeath.wav (maybe just replace with a normal death sound)
player/drown1.wav
player/drown2.wav replace these with maybe normal pain sounds or maybe the doom3 vacuum choking sounds.
player/gasp1.wav and gasp2.wav... maybe can be left alone.
Empty Files
#11383 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2011/08/07 19:12:25
are that real waves with data of silence,
or just files that have that name but consist nothing, like changing an empty *.txt file into a *.wav?
No
#11384 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/07 19:13:59
they are just sounds that are very short and silent.
if you put a .txt file, it will not have the header information that denotes a .wav file and you'll probably at the very least get warning messages or even crash the engine as it tries to read the thing.
Necros
#11385 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/07 21:34:42
Thanks, now it is clear ;)
#11386 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/07 21:37:03
just make sure that you package it as a separate mod, like i said earlier, instead of dumping stuff in the quoth folder otherwise it'll mess the sounds up for maps that don't use water as vacuum. :)
Jpl
#11387 posted by ijed [200.72.211.127] on 2011/08/07 23:48:35
in any case this sounds very interesting :)
Necros/ijed
#11388 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/08 09:39:25
Thanks a lot for all these good advices. I now have to build the mod for this, and start the map.. I have a rough idea about what I'll do, but nothing clear today... And if it gives idea to other mappers, it is even better ;)
Again, thanks a lot for your support :)
#11389 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/11 22:06:46
S_FindName: out of sfx_t
at map loading.
o_O
That Error
#11390 posted by Preach [94.171.245.254] on 2011/08/12 01:57:32
Apparently means that you've tried to precache too many sound effects. The limit is 512, which is twice as generous as for models. You have some lengthy conversations going on?
#11391 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/12 02:19:22
thanks :)
how do you find out these error meanings? are you actually looking through the source?
Uh Oh...
#11392 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/08/12 05:21:38
is that fitzquake? Seems like it should handle that more gracefully. I.e. if you haven't exceeded max_sounds, it shouldn't fail in other ways.
#11393 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/12 07:24:16
well, it was quakespasm085.4
i'll try to remember to test it in fq085 tommorow.
Seek
#11394 posted by Preach [94.171.245.254] on 2011/08/12 19:34:38
Yeah, it's often easier to google the error and find a result in a quake engine svn directory. This time it was easier because it's an error people used to run into in Sven Co-op.
#11395 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/12 19:46:52
i guess i should try the self help a bit more eh? :P
it was just such a strange error that i kind of laughed and just posted it.
thanks!
Necros
#11396 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/12 20:08:49
Huzzah !! Just experimented as per post #11382, and it works perfectly... Just remains to find sound replacement for drown1/2.wav !
It sounds I have found a good way to emulate wero gravity in space... now I can start to map my spaceship.... even if I do not have clear idea about what I'll do ;P
Again, thanks a lot for your help :D
So... It Is Done...
#11397 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/12 20:41:01
... I've found exactely what I was looking for.... :E
Interesting
#11398 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/12 23:25:51
i did a little bit of testing on this issue.
1. yes, it also occurs in FQ085.
2. it wasn't actually that the map had >512 sounds.
what seems to happen is that, when loading a new map, the engine doesn't flush the precaches or something. the reason it crashed before was because i was loading it from the console after another map had already been loaded.
if i start the map up first, from scratch, it's fine.
if i try to load another map that uses a large number of sounds, it will crash.
this sounds like not a big deal at first, but it means that you can't have a map pack with more than 1 map that uses many different sounds. :(
Oh
#11399 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/12 23:26:26
and looking forward to see the map then, jpl. :)
#11400 posted by raptorE [99.163.101.191] on 2011/08/14 21:56:57
What would happen if you load a map with many sounds, then a map with few sounds, and then another map with many sounds?
Just an idea.
That's My Point
#11401 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/14 22:08:22
eventually, if you, say, had 512 maps, each with 1 unique sound, it would end up crashing.
if, as i believe, the precaches are not being cleared, then every map that adds any extra unique sounds will bring the crash that much closer to happening.
Of Course
#11402 posted by Preach [94.171.245.254] on 2011/08/15 00:24:08
The problem is often masked simply because practically every mod to date has
a) offered no means to import custom sound into a map and
b) contains fewer than 512 sounds itself
So it's likely a bug that has long survived in practically every source port of the engine...
Yes
#11403 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/15 00:42:02
i'm certainly not blaming anyone for not noticing it.
Glass
#11404 posted by jt_ [174.252.247.95] on 2011/08/17 18:59:06
Is there any way to have glass in current engines?
Heh - RMQ Engine - Func_wall + "alpha" Key "0.#"
#11405 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/17 19:11:08
Quoth - make a func_wall, give it a texture called "skip" (Use newskip.exe after compiling), make a waterbrush in the same place as the func_wall, give it a water texture with a flat grey or white colour. Use a trigger_command to set "r_wateralpha 0.#" on mapload.
Cannot be done in vanilla progs without the player having to type a wateralpha value into the console.
RMQ Progs
#11406 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/17 19:12:42
Will have breakable glass. func_breakaway FTW.
Im Sure Some Of The Engines Support Transparency
#11407 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/17 19:17:17
On bmodels though. FitzQuake i think? Just set an "alpha" key on a func_wall - is the easiest way, and probably better than the water hack, because there is no waterwarp on a func_wall or other bmodel unless it has a water texture. GlQuake will do wateralpha, hence the water hack's universal compatibility. But you can have a nice glass texture is you use the alpha key.
RMQEngine
FitzQuake?
Darkplaces?
DirectQ?
#11408 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/17 20:01:57
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
i've mostly just ignored this kind of thing as down to the way bsp works... but is there any way to reduce or eliminate this seemingly needless poly splitting?
in the shot, the rock path is made up of 3 brushes per segment, the large center bit and the two small side bits, all 3 are split into tris. in theory, since none of the faces are larger than 240 in any direction, qbsp should have never split them at all, and just left them the way they were in the editor.
instead, you get that weird split in the center brush that runs up the slope until it meets the right-hand side where there are all these tiny little tris.
every compiler i've tried makes the exact same shape.
this is what it looks like in the editor, for reference:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
am i just missing something?
Append
#11409 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/17 20:07:49
ok, in true necros fashion, i figured a little more out right after posting... -_-
it seems this has to do with how similar the planes are between those brushes. there's a setting in aguirre's txqbsp -epsilon that you can set to smaller to have more precision on identifying unique planes which reduces the unnecessary splits.
looks like if a plane is similar enough to another plane qbsp thinks they're the same plane(?) and tries to split it or somesuch.
unfortunately, even at smallest settings, it doesn't completely remove the extra splits. i think there must be a lower bound built into the compiler, since values smaller than 0.001 had no noticeable effect.
I Think..
#11410 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/17 23:29:38
.. you should directly contact aguirRe for this. He will certainly be really happy to help you ;)
It has indeed something to do with precision in clipping Hull (Hull 1 ?).. I've seen several test map compiled with different epsilon, and the lower it is, the better the rendering is (i.e smoother planes, less "corners").. though... it seems to not be valid for all maps..
Some quotes from aguirRe's TxQBSP readme file give a little bit more details
Improved handling of complex maps such terrain. This is done by increasing precision when identifying unique planes (faces) and modifying hull expansion logic. This reduces the risk of clipping errors and creates much smoother clipping hulls which can help player/monster movements.
All maps don't benefit from this, therefore two new options have been introduced; "-oldexpand" which just disables the new expansion logic and "-epsilon x" (default 0.01) which sets the plane identifying tolerance. To revert to previous compiler behaviour, just add options "-oldexpand" and "-epsilon 0.05".
The default settings have been chosen for overall best results. If you have a big map that still doesn't build correctly, you can try lowering the epsilon even more, e.g. 0.001. In most maps the default settings have little effect on # clipnodes, but some maps can see either a significant increase or decrease. Thanks to Tyrann for this one.
I hope it clarifies the stuff ;)
Not Really
#11411 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/17 23:38:39
you just cnped the text from his website. that's how i found out about -epsilon. :P
Necros
#11412 posted by JPL [82.234.167.238] on 2011/08/18 09:37:01
... hence I suggested since the beginning of my post to directly contact aguirRe ;)
#11413 posted by roblot [216.106.107.228] on 2011/08/18 14:42:10
If the -epsilon factor has to do with with monster/player clipping hull adjustment, then JPL's post makes sense. I think I now know why sometimes a player gets stuck on some brushwork ingame. It's sometimes not bad brush alignment, but maybe odd hull expansion the player gets caught up on.
#11414 posted by gb [46.142.21.41] on 2011/08/18 18:32:31
Personally I think what you're trying to do is overkill, to be completely honest. How many people are going to appreciate the little subleties of the corridor floor, especially when it's all plastered over by a low-res rock texture?
Maybe there's an easier way to get the same effect that uses less brushes and generates less splits.
Ideally you'd do this in a model editor and then import it into the map and fake collision somehow.
Necros
#11415 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/08/18 19:38:05
You could make the floor-trim into a func_illusionary. This would make the floor a lot less complex, but there would be little or no visual difference because the floor trim cannot cast a shadow anyway.
#11416 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/18 20:07:13
i experimented with -epsilon more and the original change i saw didn't have anything to do with it, but rather some change in geometry in another place that affected the spot i was looking at.
from what i can tell, -epsilon does absolutely nothing! i tried with settings of 0.5 and 0.0001 with absolutely no change in geometry.
i think the changes are very subtle and will only show up on a large, completed map.
hence I suggested since the beginning of my post to directly contact aguirRe ;)
yeah, i think i will now that i've had more time to look at it. :)
Personally I think what you're trying to do is overkill, to be completely honest. How many people are going to appreciate the little subleties of the corridor floor, especially when it's all plastered over by a low-res rock texture?
/shrug this is what i appreciate in maps, so it's natural that i'd do it in my own mapping process. subtleties, for me, is what makes a map great. if you walk up to a cliff and you see the edge has been beveled and there are chips taken out of it, that, to me, is far far more impressive than someone just making a flat cliff with a 1024x1024 texture.
#11417 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.90.74] on 2011/08/30 19:06:28
Is there a command to force VIS to cut off at a certain distance (which would be hidden by fog)? Can't find my copy of the tools readme :(
#11418 posted by Spirit [80.171.144.243] on 2011/08/30 19:56:04
hmap2 has -farplane
#11419 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/30 21:04:20
tuna's fixed version of willem's modified version of aguirre's vis has -visdist #.
yeah, i totally just wanted to type out that line. ^_^
Trying To Compile A Quake Map W/ Win7
#11420 posted by biff_debris. [75.131.39.52] on 2011/08/31 00:01:23
And everything seems to be going well except for the old "no textures in game" crap. Yes, I've got a worldspawn key for the texture wad, and I've put the damn wad in the id1 directory, the id1/tools directory (with the compile tools) and in the /id1/maps directory (with the maps) -- no dice. Any flashes of wisdom would be appreciated.
Win7
#11421 posted by raptorE [99.41.235.118] on 2011/08/31 00:05:39
Which compilers are you using?
Hi Rap =D
#11422 posted by biff_debris. [75.131.39.52] on 2011/08/31 00:19:19
Using Tyrann's stuff at the moment.
Progress!
#11423 posted by biff_debris. [75.131.39.52] on 2011/08/31 01:31:26
Turns out I just didn't have the entries to the used textures in the wad. Feel free to throw stones or other heavy objects.
Biff
#11424 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/08/31 20:07:45
not stones or heavy objects, and not to belittle tyrann's tools, but there's really no reason not to use aguirre's stuff.
they are the most up to date.
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/txq...
i have yet to see a more robust bsp compiler.
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wv...
it has multi threaded vis thanks to willem's and tuna's tweaks.
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/Be...
mh tweaked aguirre's light to have colour and multi threading while still keeping all the things that made it great like sunlight2, _anglesense, _softangle and delay 5.
_anglesense ???
#11425 posted by Drew [216.252.67.137] on 2011/09/01 01:29:37
Hi Biff! :3
#11426 posted by raptorE [99.77.70.48] on 2011/09/01 02:41:21
I'm glad you solved the issue because I think I was going to be useless in this case.
#11427 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/09/01 08:13:55
_anglesense controls how much light lights up a surface depending on the angle it is hitting it.
for example, if you have an omni directional light placed 16 units away from a flat surface, only a small area around the light will be lit up with the light intensity attenuating quickly as you get further away.
reducing _anglesense will make the light care less about the shallow angle it's hitting the face on and light up the surface farther out.
conversely, bringing _anglesense up will make it affect surfaces less unless the light is almost hitting perpendicular to the surface.
this is useful if you have, for example, a spot light that you want to make look 'fatter' but need to keep close to a wall. setting _anglesense low will make it light up a lot more area.
it also makes faking nice ambient occlusion shadows easier.
_softangle is a spotlight setting. essentially, you get more control over spots.
'angle' sets the max cone angle of the light, but _softangle sets the area that will be 100% light (not counting distance).
so you set 'angle' to 90 and '_softangle' to 30 and you get a spot that's very wide, but with only a small bright area in the center with a nice smooth gradient, as opposed to completely blanketing everything in light.
these two settings alone make it impossible not to use the tool for me. i find them way too useful! :)
Event_lightning
#11428 posted by Orl [68.34.165.196] on 2011/09/22 03:01:06
Hopefully somebody can clear this up. I am familiar with how the event_lightning entity works, as explained on the forge here http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/...
What I want however, is to have four lightning bolts go off at the same time. So I simply tried setting it up the same way as the first one I made which works fine, however only the first lightning bolt goes off, the other 3 that are triggered to go off, do not.
What am I doing wrong, or what is the trick with the event_lightning entity that I can have four go off at the same time?
Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt
#11429 posted by Preach [94.171.245.254] on 2011/09/22 10:17:20
The chthon lightning is hard coded for one use only. If you want multiple bolts you might have to use the hack detailed here:
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Orl Lightning
#11430 posted by Mechtech [65.190.43.151] on 2011/09/22 13:56:23
Did a map awhile back to show some tricks from the Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks thread.
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Screen
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Map
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
.map, rmf and wad file.
Hope it helps
#11431 posted by Orl [68.34.165.196] on 2011/09/23 03:07:58
Thank you Preach, I knew there was going to be some complicated hack involved, but you explained it well. And thanks Mechtech for showing me that progs.dat reference map, I'm certain that will come in handy in the future.
Unfortunately, the lightning bolt hack does not have the effect I was hoping for. The bolt only lasts for less than a second, and one of the bolts I set up goes in a completely different direction then what I set its v_angle to.
Regardless, having these bolts appear is just for detail in my map, and in no way affects the gameplay, it was merely just for looks, but I can do without.
I Ran Into The Same Problem In The Hand
#11432 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.170] on 2011/09/23 03:39:47
I ended up using lazers instead.
#11433 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/09/23 03:50:29
to make the bolt last longer, make a bunch of relays each triggering the lightning, and being triggered by the actual trigger.
then set incremental delays on each, so the first has 0, the next 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, etc... for as long as you want.
if the bolt needs to last a long time, you could try using a nail shooter logic gate and opening and closing the logic gate func_door to turn on and off the lightning.
Good Suggestion Necros
#11434 posted by Orl [68.34.165.196] on 2011/09/24 03:24:08
Using the trigger relays, I have managed to get the result I want, close enough anyway. Only problem is the clutter of relay and trigger entities everywhere, but I guess its necessary. :)
#11435 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/09/24 04:02:11
you could always just stick them way outside the map and cover them all with a single brush so they don't cause leaks if they really bother you.
i usually just put up with them though. :P
#11436 posted by gb [46.142.21.21] on 2011/09/26 00:45:04
Or just use QC.
This post was flagged as spam.
#11437 posted by a spammer [59.60.121.143] on 2011/10/16 18:47:11
This post was flagged as spam.
#11438 posted by a spammer [59.60.121.143] on 2011/10/16 18:47:31
This post was flagged as spam.
#11439 posted by a spammer [59.60.121.143] on 2011/10/16 18:47:51
Func_togglewall
#11440 posted by Mechtech [65.190.43.151] on 2011/10/16 20:57:53
Just curious why func_togglewall set to emit particles is not effected by vis. Ignored in the PVS ?
#11441 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/10/16 21:18:10
all tempEntities ignore pvs. that includes lightning.
#11442 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/10/16 21:20:00
to elaborate, it probably has to do with speed. i think it's faster to just always draw particles rather than check visibility on each one (explosions spawn a hundred or so particles).
in the case of the larger tempEntities, for example beams and explosions (and chthon lava splash), the area they can travel is quite large so simply testing pvs on the spawn point is not enough.
Yeah,,,
#11443 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2011/10/17 07:08:53
theoretically each particle effect could have a bounding box (hard-coded once someone figures out what the sizes should be) and the server could do a pvs check on each effect using the box. effects are short enough in time that it would pretty much work.
My Old Map Doesnt Work In NQuake
#11444 posted by Quid [213.64.67.29] on 2011/10/26 12:44:33
Hello everyone,
I used to play Quake back in the days, back then i made a map called Battle Zone.
You can grab it here: http://www.quid.dk/temp/battle.rar
It works fine when i play it in WinQuake, but when i load it in nQuake it just crashes with this message: http://www.quid.dk/temp/battle.png :(
Another person tried the map in a clean ezQuake and it works fine there.
Anyone know why? And how i can get it to run in nQuake?
I've Never Even
#11445 posted by Drew [173.176.48.105] on 2011/10/26 14:56:31
heard of nQuake!
NQuake
#11446 posted by Quid [213.64.67.29] on 2011/10/26 15:22:31
nQuake is package build on ezQuake, includes everything you need as a newcomer :)
http://www.nquake.com/
#11447 posted by negke [89.204.137.195] on 2011/10/26 15:45:15
The map seems to be okay, I can't see any conflicts. So it's probably something with ezQuake, possibly a wrong config setting or missing files on the server.
*something With NQuake
#11448 posted by negke [89.204.137.195] on 2011/10/26 15:48:52
Seeing how much bullshit it comes with, I'm not surprised that something like this happens. You might want to ask in the quakeworld.nu forums, as the nQuake teams hangs out there. Maybe you didn't set deathmatch 0 and there's no qwprogs.dat installed?
#11449 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.101] on 2011/10/26 15:50:39
i briefly tried it yesterday and it froze ezquake for me (on Linux). other engines were fine. aguirre's engine reported no exceeded limits. so I would suggest turning to the ezquake developers. maybe check what other qw engines do,eg zquake or fteqw.
#11450 posted by [213.64.67.29] on 2011/10/26 18:19:43
I tried it now in a clean install of ezQuake and it works fine, so i guess its a problem with some of the settings or addons for nQuake :(
This post was flagged as spam.
#11451 posted by a spammer [59.60.123.184] on 2011/10/28 09:48:30
Netradiant Help Plz
#11452 posted by [178.70.193.151] on 2011/11/05 17:38:35
How to select entire func_?
How to flip clip plane?
How to make cloned brushes shift
#11453 posted by negke [78.54.89.154] on 2011/11/05 22:23:43
To select the entire func select one brush and press ctrl+alt+e. Don't know what mean about the other things. Shift cloned brushes, with alt+cursor key or what?
#11454 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/11/05 22:30:18
to flip the clipping plane with 3point clipping, in sikkpin's qe3, it's ctrl+enter. it's probably something similar in netradiant.
#11455 posted by [178.70.213.39] on 2011/11/06 21:06:38
I meant how to make the cloned brushes offset when you press 'space'.
Byte Packets
#11456 posted by Mike Woodham [86.183.55.224] on 2011/11/13 16:42:05
FitzQuake - Warning: 1034 byte packet exceeds standard limit of 1024
What is this telling me that I have done wrong?
(Pulling the mothballs out of FMB-BDG)
Overflow
#11457 posted by Preach [94.171.245.254] on 2011/11/13 17:53:58
This is the more informative fitzquake version of "Packet overflow". Fitzquake itself isn't hampered by packet overflow (in single-player, at least), but it sends the warning to let you tweak things for other engines. The usual fix still applies - reducing the number of updates at once.
Radiant And Win 7
#11458 posted by Blitz [66.235.7.200] on 2011/11/14 04:45:37
Is there a version of Radiant that works with Win 7? It seems like the last couple of times I've gotten the urge to make stuff for Quake, Radiant has had funky issues where I had to change my graphical settings in Windows just to get it working.
#11459 posted by negke [78.54.82.234] on 2011/11/14 09:37:56
All you need to do is disable visual themes (=Aero) in the compatiblity tab. Netradiant does it automatically - try if it works for you, I had some issues with it and stayed with 1.5.
#11460 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.71.179.134] on 2011/11/19 09:39:00
how do you light compile a bsp model for quoth?
One Way
#11461 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2011/11/19 11:12:57
There are lots of ways of doing it, if you know how to do it for hipnotic then that way still works. The external model supports allows for another way which I think is easier, and I'll explain that one now.
Create a new map file and build your rotating bsp model in it. Think about where you want the centre of rotation to be for your model, then move the brushes so that the centre of rotation is at the origin of the map (0, 0, 0).
Then compile your map as rot_mdl1.bsp. Return to your main map and add a point entity with classname rotate_object_point. Set the model field of this entity to maps/rot_mdl1.bsp and then compile and run the main map*. You should be able to find the rotate_object_point you just added and see the rotating model you built in fullbright.
All that remains is to open the rot_mdl1 map file in your editor and add some light entities around it, then recompile it. It's up to you to make the lighting believable, bearing in mind that your model will rotate, so keeping it fairly flat is advised.
* Question for the floor: Is maps/ the right folder for external bsp models to live, morally speaking? The guide puts it there because it's simple, where the compile process naturally puts maps. This makes it easy to compile it, check the lighting in-game and then adjust and repeat. But I think there's a case for these models to belong in another folder for released maps, either progs/ or a new folder like mapobj/.
Thnx Preach
#11462 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.71.179.134] on 2011/11/19 11:24:57
I somehow forgot that you dont even need to seal the map for q1 light, unlike other games.
Preach
#11463 posted by ijed [190.22.36.184] on 2011/11/19 14:02:02
I'd say maps, even though logically it could go somewhere else - just because its the standard format that the majority of editors use.
#11464 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/11/19 17:15:07
i just leave them in maps because i'm lazy.
Also...
#11465 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/11/19 21:44:40
id software put their item boxes in /maps
Q3map2 Issue
#11466 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.197.108] on 2011/11/27 12:36:58
How to force q3map2 to keep samplesize at 16 on huge planar surfaces?
No, tessellating them wont help, it still bakes all them into one 128x128 lm texture. Cant make the slices non-planar (think of a square, it must be flat). Not using -meta is not an option (or other stuff wont work).
-samplesize 16 doesnt do anything either.
If its possible at all...
#11467 posted by metlslime [166.147.92.221] on 2011/11/27 19:31:41
How about tiny differences in texture alignment? Like 0.0001 unit shifts to prevent merging?
Ikbase To Hlwad
#11468 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.120.105] on 2011/11/28 03:42:50
Using worldcraft 3.3 I'm trying to convert ikbase to hlwad but I'm getting an error saying "texture too big - shrink it".
Not sure why since none of the textures are larger than 256 pixels?
Could the fact that worldcraft has to be in the program files folder which in Vista has strict rules about creation new files?
Metlslime
#11469 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.208.253] on 2011/11/28 15:24:04
Tried it, doesnt work. Q3map2 assigns lightmaps coordinates regardless of diffuse textures coords or names.
#11470 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/11/28 19:57:44
maybe it's just a wonked out error message, and it's actually stumbling on the small 16x128 textures?
apart from that, are you trying to directly convert it from .wad to .hlwad or are you exporting then re-importing?
if you're doing one, try the other, etc...
i think hl wads, each texture is supposed to have it's own palette? not sure about that one.
#11471 posted by KamiKaze [75.118.120.105] on 2011/11/29 03:59:10
Thanks. Exported the textures then imported them into a wad that worldcraft was already using and the textures show up fine. Didn't have to do that in my old installation of worldcraft with ikbase... but whatever :)
KamiKaze
#11472 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2011/12/02 12:55:51
The error message it pops up typically doesn't have anything to do with the error - there's a log folder inside that tells you what really went wrong.
Lots of people have problems with that tool.
Worldcraft!
#11473 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2011/12/04 08:36:12
I have a 'clean' install of worldcraft3 and wc3adaptor and when I'm opening a .map from the Quake map sources in Worldcraft I get misaligned textures! Anyone have a clue what might cause this?
screenshot
Yeah
#11474 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/04 13:35:28
WC uses Valve 220 texture protocol, or some jaz like that, and yeah - doesn't support standard .map texture format.
You need to find some .rmf sources, or use WC's awesome texture alignment to align the textures......
Kinda sucks in that respect, WC.
3.4
#11475 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2011/12/04 14:26:05
Is there a reverse-mapconv anywhere? One that takes Q1 format maps and spits out the valve version with the added texture info?
#11476 posted by gb [46.142.37.216] on 2011/12/04 21:21:47
Couldn't he use an earlier version of Worldcraft?
Hmm
#11477 posted by DaZ [78.147.159.213] on 2011/12/05 00:40:10
could try select all and then open the face edit box and align all to bottom left, as a quick and dirty fix.
There might be a few faces you then have to edit by hand to get looking right, but that should fix most surfaces in the id maps as they are not too complex.
if you can find yourself a copy of worldcraft 1.6, that will load the map files with correct texture coordinates as others have mentioned.
#11478 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/05 16:37:43
That's weird, but if there is nothing actually wrong with the map and the alignments are "fixed" to look correct in this editor, will they still look right when seen in the game?
Hmmmm
#11479 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/05 19:50:28
OK. All the .map file texture info has to be passed on to a compiler before the map becomes a .bsp.
Now, the modern compilers we use support Half-Life texture protocol (because awesome people made us awesome tools since '96).
The original id1 .map sources have id1 texture protocol info inside them. If you compile those sources with a COMPILER then they will come out just fine.
BUT
If you load those sources into WC3.3, it doesn't know how to handle the id1 texture info, so all of the textures just become misaligned, or aligned to a 0,0,0 world grid.
If you then export a new .map file from WC3.3, then you are overwriting the original source. Just to clarify, when you import a .map file into WC3.3 you are changing it's format to .rmf. WC3.3 has to export from .rmf format, back into .map format so you have something which the compilers can then make into a .bsp.
The reason for WC3.3 having different texture protocol is because it allows a much more functional texture-lock feature (i.e. the texture lock actually works(!)).
To Clarify:
#11480 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/05 19:58:06
If you use 1996 vanilla qbsp.exe to compile your map, and it is id1 texture protocol, it will work fine.
If you use 1996 vanilla qbsp to compile a WC3.3 .map, it will throw an error (Erk! I dont understand Valve220 texture protocol)
If you use Y2K+ qbsp (e.g. txqbsp, treeqbsp, hmap2 etc), then they look FIRST at what the protocol is, and then they will compile accordingly.
An Experiment For The Less Busy Than Me:
#11481 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/05 20:03:14
1) Install WC1.6a, and WC3.3.
2) Load an original .map file into 1.6a
3) Save it as .rmf
4) Load then new .rmf into WC3.3
5) Have a look at the textures in the map
Are they still misaligned?
I don't know the answer to that question, hence the need for the experiment.
Experiment Success!
#11482 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2011/12/05 22:33:00
Above steps worked Ricky, thanks :)
Couldn't install wc1.6a on win7 though.
Model Limits Exceeded
#11483 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/05 23:11:15
256 Models exceeds standard limit of 256.
My current map just generated this error.
4820 brushes, 1476 entities.
Exactly which entities count toward this limit?
Is it only brush based entities like doors and such or does it include some of the point entities like path_corner or trigger_relay.
I don't have a lot of doors and lifts, but there's a lot of triggers and counters and relays.
Models Are:
#11484 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/05 23:19:57
Triggers
Buttons
Doors
Trains
Func_walls
Basically anything which is an entity, which is made from brushes.
I think that func_illusinaries are NOT classed as models, but I could be wrong.
I think that the map also counts as one.
I forget.
Fitzquake 0.85, Darkplaces, AGlQuake, DirectQ etc all allow for more than 256 bmodels. My current map has well over 500 ;)
Models...
#11485 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2011/12/05 23:53:58
every entity made out of brushes in your map is a unique model and counts towards the total. This even includes triggers since they have a brush.
On top of that, every unique external model file used by the level (*.mdl, *.spr, and *.bsp for the ammo boses) is counted once. So 10 ogres that use ogre.mdl, will only count once. (But then there is the ogre head too, so that's two unique models.)
A Tip
#11486 posted by DaZ [92.24.168.65] on 2011/12/06 00:02:02
for func_wall or func_illusionary etc bmodels, you can have multiple brushes inside the single entity. So for example if you have say 20 brushes in a room that you want to be func_illusionary, you can select them all and create a single func_illusionary that will count as 1 bmodel. Instead of 20 seperate func_illusionary that will count as 20 bmodels.
#11487 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/06 00:20:00
Thanks metlslime and RickyT23.
I was confused because bspinfo was telling me 193 and I thought I was safe.
I just now added up all the brush based entities, including illusionaries and one worldspawn (as reported in Netradiant) and I get a total of 193. The difference is obviously the monster/ammo/item models. I would assume the torches count also (one per type?).
And thanks Daz, that's a good tip. I should be able to trim the count a little bit by doing that.
I know it's not a real problem to exceed this particular limit, but I'm trying to avoid it if I can.
A Word Of Caution
#11488 posted by negke [31.18.187.170] on 2011/12/08 11:21:17
When adding multiple brushes to a single func entity, visibility has to be taken into account. For sometimes, if a good portion of such a func is in a vis-blocked area, it's possible that the whole entity disappears when looking at some of its brushes from a certain angle (outside the room). At other times, it may just render everything regardless of the surroundings.
Multiple-brush illusionaries can easily cause "too many efrags" warnings, so you may want to make sure they are not too far apart.
#11489 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/09 19:27:37
"When adding multiple brushes to a single func entity, visibility has to be taken into account."
Yep, I ran into this problem trying to group some DM spawn pads into one func_wall. In some spots they would disappear even though they were in plain sight.
Oh well. I was still able to eliminate a lot of models just due to re-evaluating how I was doing things and combining some stuff.
Also, last night I was testing with Reaperbots and got a Movetype_push error. I did a little checking and found a bunch (like 5 or 6) brush entities with no brushes. I'm not sure where they came from but I don't think I put them there. I suspect some bug or quirk in Netradiant or possibly I'm doing something wrong.
Anyway, that freed up a few more models, so now I'm down to 239 total which will hopefully leave enough to finish this map.
Brush-less Brush Ents
#11490 posted by negke [31.18.187.170] on 2011/12/09 20:15:34
Yes, sometimes Radiant doesn't delete the entity correctly when deleting the brush. No idea when then happens, or if a certain action has to precede it. There's an "ungroup" option. Such rogue entities can be removed by going through the entity list (L) and looking for brush-based entities without a ">" icon next to it.
Bengt Jardrup's engines and possibly Fitzquake show a warning in developer mode if such an issue is present.
Worldcraft Also Does That
#11491 posted by RickyT23 [90.220.150.150] on 2011/12/10 16:08:03
Sometimes. IT allows you to select the problematic entities via the 'check for problems' dialogue, then I just delete them with the delete key :D
In WC
#11492 posted by ijed [186.107.141.21] on 2011/12/11 02:49:23
It happens when you add a brush entity to another (combining them). Doesn't happen when you just add brushes to an entity.
A
#11493 posted by gb [46.142.22.238] on 2011/12/11 03:32:35
Modern engine should fix the flicker problem with large func_s. It was disussed and solved at i3d, I think, long ago.
#11494 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.207.214] on 2011/12/11 19:35:10
Is it possible to have a monster clip or any way to contain monsters to a specified area? In Quoth or with engine mods maybe?
In Id1
#11495 posted by ijed [186.107.141.21] on 2011/12/11 20:01:51
A trigger monsterjump will do it, with low values.
There are a few other, possibly cleaner hacks that can do it - for example cutting a 16 unit trench in the floor, then filling it with a func_illusionary will stop monsters from walking over it, since it interrupts their navigation.
Solid Skies!
#11496 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2011/12/11 22:32:16
My skies end up solid, i.e., rockets explode! What could be wrong? I use tools from http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ and GTKRadiant 1.5.0.
Ijed
#11497 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.207.214] on 2011/12/11 23:04:03
Oddly knights, hellknights and dogs walk over even a 32 width x 32 depth gap, even though they don't walk down a 32 high ledge.
Trigger_monsterjump 10\10 does the job, but they get stuck for a bit.
Hm
#11498 posted by ijed [186.107.141.21] on 2011/12/12 00:56:36
I was only remembering, now we use progs for that sort of stuff.
Want an (unpaid) job?
http://icculus.org/remakequake/for...
If not, then your only recourse is an altered progs - no doubt Preach knows a decent way of doing things in id1. I managed it once under Quoth, but as I remember it was very limited and only with melee enemies.
MoonDrunk
#11499 posted by ijed [186.107.141.21] on 2011/12/12 00:58:54
I think that's an engine issue.
#11500 posted by negke [31.18.169.132] on 2011/12/12 01:44:53
Nonsolid sky: Txqbsp does it automatically, Treeqbsp needs the -transsky switch for it to work.
'Monsterclip': Low trigger_monsterjump works just fine, but 10/10 sounds a tad low. Experiment with the values - so that the monsters don't get stuck, but don't visibly jump, either. It's not a perfect solution, but it does the job.
#11501 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2011/12/12 23:17:25
I guess I should have tested it in another client as it seems that DarkPlaces always have solid skies :(
Btw whats the difference between Txqbsp and Treeqbsp and when is one preferred over the other?
#11502 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/12/13 00:45:36
first, i'd use neither, unless you are talking about aguirre's versions of those compilers. second, txqbsp is better iirc, since aguirre spent more time on it. i've noticed it seems to handle complex brushwork better but that's nothing concrete.
Moon
#11503 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.196.131] on 2011/12/13 00:50:44
Make sure you have all the faces of a sky brush covered in a sky texture.
#11504 posted by gb [46.142.42.115] on 2011/12/13 02:21:50
Find LordHavoc on irc.anynet.org and tell him :-P
Tx vs Tree: Tree always worked well for me, but I agreed to switch to Tx when it came time to choose a compiler for BSP2, simply because everyone else seems to use Tx and I wanted to avoid an unnecessary conflict. Greg lewis did good work with Tree but MH said the code was pretty messy when compared to Tx.
Tx compiles all my maps fine, and the BSP2 version compiles all RMQ maps just fine and supports proper bmodel rotation as well.
I guess the BSP2 tools should be in the RMQ Demo 3 as well as the engine, but we should make it clear that these tools / that format is experimental.
Yeah
#11505 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2011/12/13 13:24:09
But they are things that the community has been wanting for a long time - "no limits" mapping with colored light support, proper rotation (qc dependent) multi-threading as standard and a few other features.
See no reason not to include them, even though they are beta.
Woot
#11506 posted by DaZ [78.147.102.110] on 2011/12/13 17:06:33
mh mentions on his blog that high resolution lightmaps are becoming a possibility in Quake due to some new tech he has written.
Just wanted to say FUCK YES PLEASE to that, the sooner the better :D
Oh Yeah
#11507 posted by ijed [200.73.66.2] on 2011/12/13 17:34:38
Forgot about that one.
#11508 posted by gb [46.142.47.51] on 2011/12/14 04:25:06
I appreciate the dry humour there.
Stop The Fighting Start Uniting!
#11509 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.211.80] on 2011/12/14 04:33:41
Is there any way to stop Quoth monsters infighting? I know knights of any kind wont fight each other, would like to have base monsters behave the same way and dont agro at their enforcer brothers.
Don't...
#11510 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/12/14 08:25:23
.. put them in the same room :P
Netradiant - Cant Load Textures
#11511 posted by Ziffin [95.199.11.236] on 2011/12/14 08:32:15
Im using netradiant to map for quake1 but i cannot find away to load a texture directory. What does work though is if i load a map and have the textures available at the correct dir on disk. Then the textures for that map is loaded and i can use those. Am i missing something in a cfg file?
#11512 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.211.80] on 2011/12/14 08:51:19
Netradiant looks for wads in
quake\ID1\
NetR
#11513 posted by Ziffon [95.199.15.2] on 2011/12/14 19:10:49
Thx works like a charm now
And Also
#11514 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/14 19:16:08
If you mean when the map is compiled and played the textures aren't there, you need to make sure the texture wad is listed in the map file so bsp can find them. NetRadiant doesn't add this automatically like Worldcraft did. It goes in entitiy 0, like this:
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"message" "Wishes 2011 Edition"
"worldtype" "0"
"sounds" "10"
"wad" "c:\quake\ID1\rk_quake.wad;c:...
Trigger_counter Doesnt Count...
#11515 posted by [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/17 21:13:53
I have 2 ogres that target a trigger_counter. There is a hellknight in that area also. Sometimes the hellknight will kill one of the ogres and then the trigger_counter doesn't fire its target. What causes this and is there anyway to fix it short of removing the hellknight? I can't make the HK target the counter also, because it's already got a path_corner target.
#11516 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/12/17 22:05:30
are you sure it's not firing it's targets?
the counter code will always fire it's targets, regardless of who the activator is, but it's only the message that doesn't print if the activator isn't a player. (so if you're firing a relay with a message, the message on the relay won't display either).
Cooperative Effort
#11517 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2011/12/18 01:42:58
Quoth offers a way round this if you turn on the broadcast flag on your trigger_counter. Broadcast makes the counting message appear to all players connected to the server (the default behaviour only prints the message to the player who got the kill, hence no message to anybody if a monster gets the kill) and is designed for Coop. Happily in single-player the only difference it makes is to fix the above abnormality.
It May Just Be Some Random Quirk...
#11518 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/18 06:52:12
I've run into a lot of odd stuff over 4 years of playing around with this level. So I'll test it some more before I throw it out completely. It's not the messages, they're turned off.
There are two Ogres that (are supposed to) fire a trigger_counter once both are dead. That trigger_counter then activates some Scrags (3), which (via a second trigger_counter) open a Door - once all three are dead.
It's pretty obvious when the door doesn't open, it stops any further progression.
I prefer the effect of the HK at that spot, but I'll probably change it to an ogre to avoid any in-fighting issues just to be safe.
Checking
#11519 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2011/12/18 12:23:54
So do the scrags activate? What happens when you kill them?
#11520 posted by negke [31.18.185.172] on 2011/12/18 12:26:03
Quoth supports target2, target3 etc fields, so you could make the HK target the counter as well.
A hacky workaround for situations where things don't work if the activator is not the player - usually centerprint or waking up other monsters - is putting a large activatable trigger (info_notnull hack) in the area and make the counter fire that. It'll activate the trigger which is then touched by the player and everything's fine. This isn't necessary for opening a door, though.
Monster Path + Tager
#11521 posted by negke [31.18.185.172] on 2011/12/18 12:44:07
By the way, in case someones didn't realize, monsters on a path can still fire a target upon death as long as it's the same targetname as the path_corner they're initially linked to.
Trifecta
#11522 posted by negke [31.18.185.172] on 2011/12/18 12:51:05
And in a case like Rick's, a trigger_relay with the targetname of the monster's path_corner which then fires the counter.
#11523 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/18 17:22:24
The scrags have never failed to trigger the door (bridge). Here's a screen shot of the area in question.
rick0001.jpg
So this morning I try like 10 or 15 times always getting the HK to kill at least one of the ogres and the scrags got activated every time, no failures.
I didn't know the HK could also target something and still have a path. That's actually how I wanted it to work in the first place.
Player kills HK, ogres get mad and come to attack. Player kills ogres, then here come the scrags. Player kills all the scrags and then the walkway extends.
I will try it that way first. I don't really know what to think since I can't seem to make it fail now.
#11524 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/12/18 17:24:20
that happens to me sometimes-- i'm trying to track down a bug and i get so into it, i either fix it without noticing or the problem was caused by something else entirely.
Mapping In Linux
#11525 posted by than [180.146.66.138] on 2011/12/24 07:57:45
Sorry for posting this out of the blue after not posting anything for ages and expecting help :)
I've been thinking that it's about time I tried to finish up a couple of my old maps since I did a lot of work on them and they were not far from completion. Unfortunately, Worldcraft runs like ass on my Windows laptop for some reason and I'm mostly using Ubuntu now anyway so would prefer to stay in Linux if possible.
Since I converted mostly over to using Ubuntu I can't easily use an editor that I would like, and in fact I don't even really know which editors can be run in Linux. Today I wanted to use Photoshop without having to boot up my Windows PC so installed Wine, which led me to trying to run Worldcraft. So far I haven't been able to get it working properly (1.6a has direct3d issues, and I can't get Quake Adaptor installed because it checks the location of the WC install and won't let me continue) and was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions for Linux mapping. Should I just suck it up and try Radiant (does it work for Q1 in Linux?) or is there an easy way to get WC3.3 or Hammer working?
I always wanted to make my own editor to be honest, but I don't really have the time, skill or patience to do so :/ Would be really awesome to make one for WebGL like Warren attempted some time ago. Unfortunately, the intel graphics card on my Thinkpad isn't recent enough to support WebGL :(
#11526 posted by negke [31.18.185.172] on 2011/12/24 10:07:06
Quest of course! Seriously though, a linux build of GtkRadiant 1.5 or Netradiant would be your best option. I think Netradiant has pre-compiled builds for download so you should probably try that first.
When You Install WC3.3
#11527 posted by RickyT23 [2.223.172.220] on 2011/12/24 14:38:55
You need to set the installation path to:
program files\worldcraft
instead of:
program files (x86)\worldcraft
Then it should work.
#11528 posted by necros [71.99.108.193] on 2011/12/24 14:52:23
just a shot in the dark, but willem made toe tag for the mac and it's open source. maybe you can compile it for linux?
http://www.wantonhubris.com/toetag... the ui is very different from both WC and GTKR though, so it can be hard to get used to.
Looked Good IIRC
#11529 posted by RickyT23 [2.223.172.220] on 2011/12/24 15:21:44
#11530 posted by gb [46.142.43.206] on 2011/12/24 16:09:05
Radiant is the typical choice for mapping under Linux, and Netradiant is the most up-to-date and bugfixed version. Works like a charm.
#11531 posted by gb [46.142.43.206] on 2011/12/24 16:10:53
http://dev.alientrap.org/wiki/7
http://ingar.satgnu.net/gtkradiant...
Use the quake gamepack, not the darkplaces one.
Definitely Try Netradiant
#11532 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2011/12/24 17:19:02
Until last year I had only used Worldcraft, but then I switched to Netradiant and have never looked back. I remember it took about a week to get used to it.
I doubt I could even remember how Worldcraft works now.
I have a map that's closing in on 6000 brushes and it still runs smooth with XP on an old Athlon 64 3400 with 1 Gb of RAM.
Thanks
#11533 posted by than [221.244.26.90] on 2011/12/28 05:18:44
I've been doing lots of programming lately (javascript+canvas) actually, so ended up not doing any mapping the other day, though I did manage to get Worldcraft 3.3 working properly in Windows XP, so maybe I will just use that.
The problem I was having with setting it up in Linux was the installer for QuakeAdaptor wouldn't allow me to install in any place other than program files/ and even though I was trying to install there through Wine, I think it somehow knew that the actual path was different. Maybe I can copy the files from Windows and get it working properly.
That Might Actually Work You Know :D
#11534 posted by RickyT23 [2.223.172.220] on 2011/12/28 12:45:28
Not that I have tried it, but I think you can run WC from a USB stick for example.
Map Analysis Video
#11535 posted by DaZ [78.147.108.106] on 2012/01/07 09:48:24
I've put up a 1 hour video on my yt where I look at an unreleased hl2 single player map I worked on some time ago and talk about level design shit. Might be interesting to some of you guys perhaps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7F...
#11536 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/07 16:07:54
Issue with Quoth Delayed spawn. With some larger spawns (dozens of mobs) it sometimes doesn't auto wake them. I even added a relay to retrigger them but it still doesn't wake them up... thoughts?
Psychic Debugging
#11537 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/07 20:22:17
I'm going to channel Raymond Chan here, are the hordes spawned by the death of other monsters? Like waves once a certain number die?
#11538 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/07 22:43:02
Trigger multiple -> Lightning trap -> Trigger once -> relays
#11539 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/07 22:44:36
It's a bit odd all the other fights seem to work fine. This particular spawn however is spawning both a zerg in a spawn room that then come through teleporters AND a bunch that spawn right next to the player. If they are not waking you don't notice because they aggro you anyway :p
Activator
#11540 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/07 23:08:23
So the lightning trap is shooting a hurtable trigger_once during this sequence? Because I could see that setting the wrong activator and so not waking monsters up. One test of this would be to replace the hordes with just a regular monster whose back is turned and see if that trigger will wake them up. If this monster also fails to wake then read on to find out the problem...
The concept of the activator is a fairly opaque topic in quake mapping. When an targetname event gets called, one of the entities in the game is designated as the activator of that event. If the trigger was a touch trigger then the player who touched it is the activator. Similarly relays propagate the activator of the original event.
What about when the trigger is driven by damage? Well, the QC has to work a bit harder to get this right. If the damage was done by a player rocket, naive code might make the rocket the activator. Really what we want is for the owner of the rocket to be the activator, which is why T_Damage takes two entities: the inflictor and the attacker. In this case the rocket is the inflictor and the player is the attacker. The concept of the attacker is also needed for correct ai and kill message attribution.
So I'd guess that the problem is that the lightning trap is being identified as the attacker and therefore becomes the activator. Lightning traps don't use their activator as the attacker, self is the attacker (mostly because the lightning uses the thunderbolt attack function which doesn't distinguish between inflictor and attacker). This is typical for trap shooters though, spike shooters would behave in the same way.
Activator Fix
#11541 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/07 23:35:53
Forenote: Bear in mind that if any of the monsters from a horde spot the player, they will wake all the nearby monsters which will overwhelmingly reach the whole horde. Be careful of false positives in your testing.
There's actually a much more common source of activator bugs in maps, which I think have been discussed recently: monster kills (I assumed this was the issue at first). When a monster fires a trigger on death, their killer becomes the activator of the event. Usually the player does the killing but infighting can ruin it! So it's doubly worth looking at how to fix activator issues.
One suggestion would be just change this crazy QC stuff so that monsters who are activated always attack the player regardless of who caused the activation. I don't like this fix because it only works in single player. In co-op you might have multiple players, so you have to decide how to sensibly pick one for monsters to attack. Even if you think you've fixed this, what about if there are no players!
A simple fix on the mapping side of things is to make sure that events to wake up monsters are only bound to things that players can do, like touch triggers, buttons and item pick-ups. A lot of the time this is reasonable and worth bearing in mind. I don't think it's ideal everywhere though; if you imagine a climactic arena fight with multiple waves of spawning monsters, it might destroy the intensity if the player gets to press a button at their leisure to restart the combat.
So in these circumstances I would recommend a new pattern: Use the trigger event which may have the wrong activator to spawn a trigger_once over the combat area. Make this trigger_once target the monsters on touch. Since touch triggers only fire on players you can be sure the monsters will have a valid target. There is no chance in co-op that the monsters will go after the player who is AFK over the one in the arena. If no players are in the server, we just wait for a player to enter the area.
Yes
#11542 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/07 23:36:52
i ran into this problem back in ne_tower.
you could try making a giant info_notnull trigger_once in the area the player will be in that is only turned on when the lightning trap hits the trigger once, and have THAT trigger target the relays and monsters. this way the player will be the activator.
Heh
#11543 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/07 23:37:27
i should refresh pages before posting. -_-
Addendum
#11544 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/07 23:38:58
There is no chance in co-op that the monsters will go after the player who is AFK over the one in the arena.
Reads better as:
There is no chance in co-op that the monsters will go after the player who is AFK in spawn ahead of the one in the arena.
Oh Yeah!
#11545 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/07 23:39:34
For once my verbose answer is in before Necros' concise one!
Haaah
#11546 posted by ijed [190.22.0.3] on 2012/01/08 05:22:44
I love you guys!
(did I already post this?)
Apparently Not
#11547 posted by ijed [190.22.0.3] on 2012/01/08 05:26:24
#11548 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 12:07:50
I think I've fixed it, ta guys
#11549 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 12:34:58
Hah just after typing that I played it through again and both major horde sections broke, grr :p
#11550 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/08 12:37:59
Battle not with monster activation issues, lest ye become a monster. And if you gaze into the void, the trigger_hurt gazes also.
- Preach 2009
#11551 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 12:39:10
Sod that I was planning to release an alpha of this bloody thing today! :(
#11552 posted by Spirit [82.113.121.170] on 2012/01/08 14:25:19
anything that stands in the way of horde gameplay is a good thing. I wonder how great rage could have been without it.
#11553 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 14:42:48
you mean, any bit of the game with the mutants? :P
#11554 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 15:05:53
Guh it is actually not working just with a straight trigger now. Monsters spawn but don't aggro. grrr.
#11555 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 15:48:44
I've reduced the spawning down to a single trigger the player walks through, and waves are staggered by doors in front of different groups... but it's only waking about half of the monsters anyway. Added multiple triggers in a line, or a single trigger multiple the player sits in and fires every few seconds, still isn't doing anything. Bit confused :p
ZQF
#11556 posted by RickyT23 [2.223.172.220] on 2012/01/08 15:54:17
This aint a fix, but:
You could just normal monsters with the spawned and alert flags. This way you have 100% control of where and when they spawn, its easier to implement skills etc. I dunno if that would work in your map, but its an idea maybe :S
#11557 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 15:55:57
Yeah I'll mess around with how they are activating... I think I've worked out one factor that's causing trouble, some groups still had different spawn delays, and I think that was causing some telefragging and messing things up :p
Worth A Look
#11558 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/08 18:33:18
Even if you do get it fixed, do set aside a copy of the map how it is now and send it to me sometime, I can check there isn't a bug in the code that way.
#11559 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/08 18:50:14
there's horde gameplay in rage?! :D
#11560 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 19:04:05
My conclusion is it is the spawn delay that is causing the mobs to not activate on spawn. I created a set spawned by the same trigger, two with no delay and two with ten seconds, first activate the second don't :E
#11561 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/08 20:14:36
isn't the auto-wake feature broken in quoth2? i know it definitely is for the horde spawner.
#11562 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 20:34:30
This so far is the only time I've had trouble with it :E
The reason I've been using it so much at this stage is because when I first started mapping I didn't realise that triggering a monster woke it up, so I didn't know I could have everything in an external closet prespawned. I was learning how to build levels whilst working on this project so it's a huge mess of shit I know how to do better now :/
Patches
#11563 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/08 20:34:50
I thought that it was broken in the original release but the 2.1 patch fixed that.
If you could produce a minimal map which exhibits the issue that would be much easier to diagnose.
Finally Isolated It
#11564 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 23:18:00
It's a combination of the delay and telefragging. If a delayed mob telefrags one already spawned, then any other mobs triggered by the same action but yet to spawn (and other mobs spawning at the same time but NOT involved in the telefrag) no longer spawn alerted.
Now I'm aware of it it shouldn't be something too hard to get around, just means being less sloppy about creating spawn closets, but for you to observe it Preach:
http://www.zealousquakefan.com/jun...
Cool
#11565 posted by ericw [142.179.129.40] on 2012/01/08 23:26:34
So if you can guarantee that no telefrags occur, the alert-spawning will work fine?
Looking forward to your map, ZQF :-)
#11566 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/08 23:29:08
This does explain why it was only affecting one fight, because of the three big fights I used different methods to make the closets :E
Bug Report Accepted
#11567 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/09 00:10:43
I'll admit that I had been looking in the wrong place for a potential bug - I was checking the code for the info_multispawn and info_groupspawn for spawning lots of monsters from a single entity. This was a bad assumption on my part, as the monsters in the test map are regular monsters using the teleport spawnflags.
Looking in the correct place, it's a genuine and longstanding bug in Quoth. Delayed teleporting monsters ought to save the activator variable in the monster when first used and then restore it once the delay time has passed. Quoth neglects to do this and so the activator in the most recently handled event is applied to the monster!
Usually this is still the player and so the bug goes undetected. But if something else activates an event then the bug is exposed. In this case the telefrags set the telefragging monster to be the activator. Even though they are not activating the monsters, the code acts as if they were. There are of course other ways this bug could arise, but they are probably more obscure. Ah well...
#11568 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/09 22:09:08
Is it possible to have so many entities that Quake C just starts to fall apart a bit?
Well
#11569 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/10 01:14:39
The most obvious way that too many entities can cause problems is if you spawn more than 600 on a standard engine. That causes an instant crash to console though, which is in my book not falling apart "a bit".
If you had enough monsters going at once you might be able to cause noticable framerate slowdown from the amount of ai being calculated, but I think on modern computers you'd be more likely to hit the former limit than the latter.
The most likely falling apart I think you'd see if hitting packet limits. Over a network the server has to send out packets of updates to each of the clients. If too much is happening at once, the packet becomes full before all the updates can be packed into it. This is called packet overflow.
When packet overflow occurs then sounds can fail to play, and entities or particles may not draw. It's worth noting that although this problem is rooted in the network code, it still occurs in single player. Standard engines still have a client and a server in a single player game, the packets just get sent internally. Fitzquake among others has more sophisticated handling to avoid this problem in the SP case.
Anything sounding like the issue?
#11570 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.30] on 2012/01/10 01:30:35
Not really. I was getting some odd behaviour (including the aggro issue) but after recompiling it went away again. The map has nearly 3000 entities, due to the monster sets between easy/normal and hard being almost completely different and a lot of relays and triggers and togglewalls etc.
Just a thought that I might be pushing it too far on having so much stuff trying to run at once... but it isn't actually causing any frame rate issues, so perhaps again just some flaws in the entity setup I haven't noticed yet. I'll keep quite until I've found something more concrete and reproducable.
Activator
#11571 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/13 14:00:11
Uh, who's the activator in a logic gate? Here's a button that triggers a spikeshooter with two shootable triggers in front of it. First one is supposed to show a centerprint, and is killed at some point to let the spike pass through to the second one. No message is displayed.
#11572 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/13 14:29:04
Ok, so the spike becomes the activator. Crap, now to add complicated workarounds.
Yeah...
#11573 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2012/01/13 17:01:05
a common problem unfortunately :(
#11574 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.193.227] on 2012/01/13 17:52:27
play a global sound?
#11575 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.10] on 2012/01/13 18:27:11
Would like some suggestions on how this area could be lit and such. Going for an 'dark, cavernous and unused for years' kind of feel :E
http://www.zealousquakefan.com/ima...
#11576 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/13 18:51:47
strong but isolated spots casting tons of long spooooooooooooo... ...oooky shadows.
Lighting
#11577 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.193.227] on 2012/01/13 19:53:20
http://magnarj.net/article_funclig...
#11578 posted by zqf [46.142.29.125] on 2012/01/13 23:15:45
Despite cavernous theme, put more light sources in? Especially along the main walkways. It's not lit well enough. Use delay 5 / wait 0.5 to make light reach further.
"Dark" doesn't work too well in Quake. You have to use pretty powerful light sources to get anywhere. In the end it is a game and the player has to be able to see something - it has to be functional.
Try using equipment as light sources, too - slipgate "powercubes", mobile light props, computer screens and so on.
Use spotlights.
You can also use e.g. candles and fire in base maps as light sources, you just have to make their presence look plausible. ^^
If all else fails, destroy the ceiling and let some sunlight in... only in certain places of course.
Crashed spaceship's thrusters as light sources / traps. Fire and debris. Burning barrels. Anything that gives off light (perhaps coloured) and looks plausible. A blaster test station. Laser traps. Car lights.
Duh
#11579 posted by gb [46.142.29.125] on 2012/01/13 23:16:32
that was posted by gb, @ zqf. Sorry.
#11580 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.10] on 2012/01/14 00:48:20
Is there a key for increasing the radius of a spot light? :E
#11581 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.10] on 2012/01/14 00:54:04
By radius I mean the radius of the cone they project :)
#11582 posted by gb [46.142.29.125] on 2012/01/14 01:41:43
angle?
#11583 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [86.190.187.10] on 2012/01/14 01:54:41
Doooh I'm a dumbass I tried _angle :p
Lightplaces
#11584 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/14 18:57:24
One tip which works from an engine point of view and is occasionally realistic too: you can make lots of your map dark and still playable if you light the floor. Entities like monsters take their lighting value from the floor below them. So if you need them visible but still want to create some contrasting dark areas of the map, make the floor the first thing you light.
Had Another Go:
#11585 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.91.220] on 2012/01/15 00:58:31
Thoughts? Still got a tiny bit of fog to make the tunnels look deeper :E
http://www.zealousquakefan.com/ima...
Scale
#11586 posted by clownfart [174.0.178.239] on 2012/01/15 20:15:13
Hi, I'm wondering what's the optimal scale for a 1v1 QW map. E.g., Quake 3 would be 128 units wide, and Warsow would be 160 units wide. Playing QW maps in Warsow makes you feel like a giant, so I think it'd be pretty small.
#11587 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/16 02:10:26
q3 scale is probably a safe bet.
#11588 posted by clownfart [174.0.178.239] on 2012/01/17 03:37:09
Alright thanks. Well I can probably figure this out, but what are the player dimensions, like width/height, jump height, jump distance, etc.? Also is there any other dimensions like this worth knowing? I looked up the LG is 600 units long, and the RL & GL have a 120 and 160 unit splash.
Er
#11589 posted by RickyT23 [81.155.201.207] on 2012/01/17 10:19:12
64 units is the lowest ceiling you can fit underneath.
16 unit steps are OK, but 8 unit look better
#11590 posted by clownfart [174.0.178.239] on 2012/01/17 15:04:36
Yeah, I see a lot of 16 unit steps, what's the deal? I assume that's also the max step height?
#11591 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/17 19:36:56
yes, a 17 step will stop you dead.
i think jump distance is like 220~ units? madfox posted them a little while ago, iirc.
More Metrics
#11592 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2012/01/17 19:47:37
the largest gap player cannot fit through is 32 units wide -- this goes for holes in the floor and for doorway width
player eye level is 48 units off the floor
player can jump up onto a 40-unit-tall crate but not 48.
you can fall down from about a 256-unit drop without taking damage (assuming you just walked off the edge and didn't jump.)
#11593 posted by clownfart [174.0.178.239] on 2012/01/17 22:47:56
The minimum water needed to swim is 29 units, the highest ramp jump I've done is 128 units.
Helpful Reference
#11594 posted by ericw [142.179.129.40] on 2012/01/17 22:57:54
Also, for steps, I found that monsters have stricter requirements than players, and smaller monsters (grunt) can walk up steeper stairs than, say, fiends. i.e. the step width also matters.
I wanted to make staircases that fiends/shamblers/etc. could chase the player up or down, and ideally the stairs would be as steep as possible. I'll post the metrics I found when I can fire up Quake. Not sure if this is common knowledge or if I was screwing something up?
Er
#11595 posted by ericw [142.179.129.40] on 2012/01/17 23:00:07
by width, I meant the dimension that determines staircase slope
Qw
#11596 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.211.87] on 2012/01/17 23:02:16
you should just play Aerowalk to get what scale works well in qw
Jump Distance
#11597 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/17 23:37:50
Horizontal jump distance is something you have to be careful of. The quake player physics allows you to go gain lots of speed through bunnyhopping and use aircontrol to speed up during the jump. So testing the jump by holding forward and leaping may not be enough.
NetRadiant : Darkplaces Vs Quake
#11598 posted by tigerschwert [86.30.237.16] on 2012/01/18 22:55:39
I'm using NetRadiant and trying to get started with mapping. I'm using the Darkplaces engine and have no interest in supporting other engines - what's the difference between choosing Darkplaces and Quake at the initial game selection screen?
Also, if I pick Darkplaces, where will the editor expect wad files to be located? dpmod instead of id1?
#11599 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/18 23:53:18
wad files are only for editing maps. once you compile a map, the textures you've used get included into the bsp file.
Staircase Step Dimensions
#11600 posted by ericw [23.17.185.198] on 2012/01/19 00:26:58
I found the safest dimensions for steps are 8 units high, 16 units deep steps: any monster should be able to walk up or down them.
12 units high, 16 units deep steps: grunts can walk on them, fiends can't.
Huh?
#11601 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2012/01/19 17:06:26
Fiends can't walk up 16 unit high steps? I know they get stuck easily from lack of height and width, but I thought everything could climb 16 unit steps. I've almost always used 16 high x 32 deep.
They Can.
#11602 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/19 17:47:25
But sometimes big monsters have problems if the steps are not broad enough (floor).
Yeah
#11603 posted by Rick [98.239.5.248] on 2012/01/19 18:35:29
I made a test map just to check. The fiend has no trouble "walking" up or down 16 high steps, but when jumping in the up direction, he usually goes nowhere but straight up (no forward movement). Jumping down is no problem. Maybe they jump better over 8 high steps. I try to avoid steps and confined areas where fiends are concerned, they tend to get stuck too easily.
Problem
#11604 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2012/01/21 00:25:35
My triggers triggers the wrong targets! For example my t31 triggers t32! Any suggestion what might be wrong or where I should start looking would be great as everything seems to be set up correctly as far as I can see? I'm using GtkRadiant 1.5.0 and I'm messing with e1m1 from the original map sources.
BTW I also get solid trigger brushes in-game for some reason, probably connected to the above issue.
#11605 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/21 02:00:05
yikes... i never thought people actually used the auto target/targetname system. :S
it can be very helpful to give meaningful names to your entities to help keep track of, not only what they are, but what areas they belong to and such.
anyway, that aside, what are your triggers triggering? without more info, can't really say much.
i'll hazard a guess and say it's probably auto linked doors. try putting the DOORS_DONT_LINK flag on doors that are triggered but near to other doors.
Solid Trigger Brushes
#11606 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [78.37.169.130] on 2012/01/21 07:04:54
Compiled with -onlyents, am I right? run a full bsp process.
Problem Solved
#11607 posted by Moon[Drunk] [90.229.217.121] on 2012/01/22 10:56:27
Found it! I had an old ent-file in another directory that screwed things up! As I had named the edited file the same as the original (e1m1), DarkPlaces found it! But as I haven't changed any of the triggers or entities in the map I'm still confused why it screwed things up as the ent file works with the original e1m1 map?
Indexing
#11608 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/22 11:49:01
The cause is likely that you added a model to the map! The ent file records an index for which of the brush models to use for each trigger*. If you altered the list of models by adding or removing one, then the model entry for trigger t32 in the ent file might end up pointing to the model for t31 in your recompiled map.
*NB for those with technical know-how: this is not the modelindex field in this case. Brush entities in a map have the model field set to e.g. "*20" if their model is the 20th one baked into the map.
Virtus Deathmatchmaker
#11609 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2012/01/22 20:45:13
the maximum distance that a player can jump and not fall into water,lava or other traps:
225
the maximum distance that a player can jump straight up and get up to another object:
42.5
the maximum distance that a player can fall and not be injured:
275
The minimun gap in floor spacing, slatted bridge, or floating squares of lava:
35
The maximum height that a step can be before the player must jump:
17
#11610 posted by metlslime [67.188.81.46] on 2012/01/23 08:33:45
since the 35 is wrong, i suspect some of the other numbers too...
Yes
#11611 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/23 09:22:33
Max fall height is 256. And why should it be 42.5?
Rogue Tris
#11612 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/23 09:57:09
While trying to optimize a map to bring it under the marksurfaces limit, I encountered (and bit my teeth out on) a perculiar area where some seemingly random face splitting occurs. Shot - the grid-like stuff next to the kights.
There's no indication where it could originate from, no intersecting brushes or anything, and the tris even reach into an adjacent room through the wall (there's a doorway at the end of the corridor). I can't seem to get rid of it. Tried upscaling the texture, splitting the brush into smaller chunks, even trisouping it, moving it to the end of the brush cue, but all to no avail. It does go away if I block out parts of the map with a giant brush (to speed up QBSP), though.
I don't expect anyone to know a magic cure; this is mainly supposed to be a wtf bsp post. The whole deal with marksurfaces (and their optimization) is quite obscure. Seems to be more about experimentation than logical conclusions...
#11613 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/24 01:05:28
i posted something similar a while back: http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
those were all pre-split tris (ie: planar by definition) yet bsp split the thing in such a strange way.
if that was a non-planar area, i'd say try messing with -epsilon (check out aguirre's readme for what values) but i doubt it will help you because that floor is completely flat.
you could try that offset texture by 1 unit trick, but that's not really solving your problem, just forcing bsp to do something else.
It Should Be 43, Because
#11614 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2012/01/24 01:43:58
I just replicated the messures from the Virtus DeathMatchMaker, so first I thought the grids had different scale.
Quark let me jump poly's 42.5 height.
Even 43 units will do, but 44 blocks.
Maybe the vert meshes appear because of the reach to integers? :P
Btw...
#11615 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2012/01/24 01:47:17
I recommend r_drawflat to see actual surfaces instead of tris
#11616 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/24 01:48:16
is there a program out there that will let you feed in map files which contain only small pieces of a map with maybe 'attachment' points of some kind and then let you just snap them together oblivion construction set style and then just compile it all up into a single .map file you could load in any editor?
that'd be cool...
#11617 posted by dhia [197.7.124.42] on 2012/01/24 21:10:30
dzerdwfvgftucxwfgyhgd
Quoth Polyp Dies On Sight
#11618 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.204.164] on 2012/01/25 10:52:48
As soon as he sees player he goes activation anim\sound and then just vanishes, technically dying, adding to the killcount. What could be wrong?
#11619 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/25 18:19:31
Does it spawn on a moving func by any chance? Sometimes this screws up and monsters block it for no apparent reason.
#11620 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.205.39] on 2012/01/25 19:50:52
They spawn on a solid. Probably incompatible with q3bsp. I guess I'll have to live w/o them, oh well no one likes polyps anyway.
I Do!
#11621 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/25 20:10:40
I like tarbabies, too.
Dont Worry
#11622 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.205.39] on 2012/01/25 20:15:00
there will be many other means to decimate your hp.
#11623 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [82.16.80.21] on 2012/01/25 21:19:09
I like tarbabies, too.
We can control that with medication.
But
#11624 posted by MadFox [94.215.210.233] on 2012/01/25 23:59:20
tarbabies don't like, you
They controll that with indication.
Yeah, But
#11625 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/26 00:17:11
incoherent fire dissipates all contingency.
Polyp Polyp Pop
#11626 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/26 12:24:50
Do you have spawndelay set to -1 on the polyp? I think there's a potential bug with that setting which could reproduce the teleporting ogre bug.
Polyp Mystery Solved
#11627 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [78.37.160.234] on 2012/01/26 18:51:01
They cant survive too far from the center of coordinates.
Inquiry
#11628 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/26 23:54:13
In the spirit of scientific enquiry, could you try moving them even further from the origin of the map and seeing if they still misbehave?
I've been trying to run through possible issues, haven't seen anything obvious in the QC. The 4096 coordinate limit in stock engines is imposed by the network messages; the server stores coordinates internally as floats. It seems impossible even in a Q3 format map that you would have a map which could overflow a floating point vector. So if you can reliably reproduce it I might have to borrow a copy of the map to find out why...
Scratch That
#11629 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/27 00:43:14
Never mind, there's literally just code that removes a polyp whenever they leave the range 8192 to -8192 in any coordinate. The function is called polyp_skyabove so I assume it went in there to catch polyps that flew away into the sky and out of the map.
I suppose we have to say it's by design now...
#11630 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.71.180.91] on 2012/01/27 16:22:47
Any other quoth monsters have that code?
Mocksurfaces
#11631 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/27 18:52:39
Can this please make any sense??? After long woes and trial and erroring with countless 5-min long compiling breaks, I managed to bring the marksurfaces count just under the limit - again; for the x-th time. Even simplifying rooms and shit. Then I fix a simple portal error on a small step (invisible face), and suddenly the whole count is down 300 points. Is QBSP making fun of me or something?!
It's Like Chaos Theory I Guess
#11632 posted by RickyT23 [2.223.172.220] on 2012/01/27 20:12:44
I have noticed that sometimes adding stuff to the map can actually lower figures instead of increasing them.
Ha
#11633 posted by Drew [132.205.41.240] on 2012/01/27 20:31:36
There is nothing I can contribute to your knowledge, but its comforting to know you get as perplexed over that shit as anyone else...
Also, nice to know you're working on something (apparently something large).
Also...
#11634 posted by metlslime [159.153.4.50] on 2012/01/27 20:45:12
one thing czg figured out was that you can exceed the marksurfaces limit and not crash, as long as the extra marksurfaces come from bmodels and not the worldmodel.
Unfortunately there is currently no tool or engine that reports worldmodel marksurfaces specifically (that I know of.)
Metl
#11635 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/27 20:53:54
Bspinfo.exe
Exceptional
#11636 posted by Preach [77.98.165.95] on 2012/01/27 22:27:38
Any other quoth monsters have that code?
Nope, it's part of a larger function that only applies to the polyp.
#11637 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/27 22:28:31
as long as the extra marksurfaces come from bmodels and not the worldmodel
that's interesting and good to know. :)
Dont Fight It
#11638 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.71.180.91] on 2012/01/28 02:06:54
Use external mapmodels.
Or Bsp2
#11639 posted by rj [86.29.94.69] on 2012/01/28 12:06:15
Negke
#11640 posted by ijed [190.22.90.19] on 2012/01/30 00:13:56
Just use BSP2 - its not tied to the mod.
Wagh
#11641 posted by ijed [190.22.90.19] on 2012/01/30 00:15:38
Looks like I've got recent post blindness.
Carve Functionality ...
#11642 posted by Baker [69.47.165.224] on 2012/01/30 02:03:44
Do any of the following editors have "carve" functionality like Worldcraft:
1. Quark
2. QER (Sikkpin) or GTKRadiant or NetRadiant
3. ToeTag (I didn't see it anywhere)
I'm trying to grasp the concept of how brush splitting occurs in code and with the 3 all being open source.
#11643 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/01/30 03:16:39
sikkpin's qe3 and gtkradiant do, as does quark.
Shader Downloads
#11644 posted by banksy [180.95.123.253] on 2012/01/30 05:20:59
I am using NetRadiant (GtkRadiant) and when I right click on the 2d box, and go to func, I am missing some (e.g. func_breakable, and func_door)
Where can I locate and download these files?
I was also interested in finding some 3D models, if anyone ahs any links :)
#11645 posted by Spirit [89.204.130.114] on 2012/01/30 09:56:05
in quark you can have subtractive brushes and there is a carving function too. and since it is quark you will probably end up with floating point horror in any case.
Shader Downloads
#11646 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/30 10:12:34
I am using NetRadiant (GtkRadiant) and when I right click on the 2d box, and go to func, I am missing some (e.g. func_breakable, and func_door)
Where can I locate and download these files?
I was also interested in finding some 3D models, if anyone ahs any links :)
#11647 posted by Spirit [89.204.130.114] on 2012/01/30 10:49:45
what game or mod?
#11648 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/30 11:40:18
Urban terror
#11649 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/30 11:50:08
You need the entity def file for Urban Terror (probably on its website). If that one is missing the entities, you can edit the file with a text editor and add them manually. Just follow the pattern the other entities have. Or copy the missing ents from the default Q3A def file.
#11650 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/30 11:50:45
Yes i have that, but i dont know where to put it
#11651 posted by banksy [180.95.123.253] on 2012/01/31 05:07:54
I'm running NetRadiant on my mac, and I have tried putting UrbanTerror.def (The file with these functions) in every single folder in radiant, and in Urban Terror, but still nothing???
#11652 posted by digs [94.41.98.244] on 2012/01/31 05:11:21
DEF file are best placed as a standalone game, but not as a mod. And do not forget to add UrbanTerror.game file in the directory "netradiant/games"
#11653 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/31 08:52:41
thats the thing though, there is an urban terror game file in my netradiant/games
???
#11654 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/31 09:42:08
isn't***
#11655 posted by digs [94.41.98.244] on 2012/01/31 10:36:59
I'm sorry. It seemed to me that Urban Territory it is mod. Have you tried to do as well as for other games?
#11656 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/01/31 10:38:31
http://www.urbanterror.info/forums...
#11657 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/31 10:40:20
Urbanterror is standalone
#11658 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/01/31 10:47:31
thanks for the link negke.
Though still nothing... maybe im just not placing folders in right area.
also, anyone know where i can find some pre-colured/textured models?
#11659 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/02/01 08:21:15
Ok, i found out ow to do it. You need to right click on Netradiant App, then click "Show Package Contents, you then go to Contents>MacOS>Install>q3... then place urbanterror.def in there
anyone know where i can find some pre-colured/textured models?
#11660 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/02/01 11:35:31
Now i have another problem. I have been working on a map for a long time, then one time i saved it as usual, and exit radiant. Then next time i load the map, the map is empty. Like all brushes had disappeared. I was very distressed, so I made another map, making sure I saved all the time, then today I exit, and came back later, and same thing happened.
What's going on???
#11661 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/01 21:09:53
you're on mac then?
have you tested it by opening up finder window to your save folder, and then saving?
does a file appear at all?
if it was w7, i'd say it was a permission problem... but maybe it's saving into /library instead of /user? just guessing here...
#11662 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/02/01 21:23:49
Could also be a case where Radiant has a problem with the entity definitions (improperly configured, syntax error, missing something). Or simply filters activated?
As for the models, just try the ones that come with UT. Not sure if you just need to point the program to the right folder/pk3 or actually have to extract them. Also may need to adjust config xml.
#11663 posted by banksy [118.210.229.90] on 2012/02/02 06:25:06
Yes I am on a mac.
I will describe the situation.
I was making a map. And I had been saving all day. Then i saved, and quit Netradiant and had dinner. Then I came back opened Netradiant, and both my map, and the autosave would not have any brushes or models in the map. This is really weird, as it was only this map. All my other maps from ages ago still worked fine.
Also, i save my maps to my desktop, which has worked fine in the past. This error only really happened after i updated X11
#11664 posted by negke [31.18.178.13] on 2012/02/02 10:24:24
Does the map file itself have any brush data or is it just empty in a text editor?
#11665 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/04 04:17:02
is there any interest in a .ent/.def -> .fgd converter?
was originally going to be just a gui for managing and saving lists of entity definitions but i haven't gotten around to making the gui yet, so it's just a command line thingy.
Sure
#11666 posted by ijed [190.22.41.102] on 2012/02/04 12:13:43
That'd save some time.
These files tend to get neglected when creators don't use all formats personally.
Does It
#11667 posted by ijed [190.22.41.102] on 2012/02/04 12:17:13
Go forwards and back?
I'd Be Interested In One Of Those
#11668 posted by RickyT23 [2.124.172.60] on 2012/02/04 18:46:02
Yes
#11669 posted by Drew [216.252.85.178] on 2012/02/04 20:02:39
interested
Ok, Cool
#11670 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/05 00:22:39
i have some things to clean up but i'll try to get a version that works out during the week.
currently, it can (from what i've seen so far) parse a .ent and create a .fgd.
eventually it should be able to go back and forth, with probably it's own format to store everything in.
this is because there is some loss of data going either way:
.ent files tend to have nice long descriptions of how the entity works, and then descriptions for each keyval/flag, whereas fgd tends to have more abbreviated descriptions, relying more on external docs to flesh out entity functionality.
but fgd has, first, the concept of inheritance for definitions which .ent files lack and the other things like data types for keyvals (strings, integers, choices), which get lost going to .ent.
also, depending on how you document your entities, it can be more of less effective.
so, when creating an fgd from an ent, i've taken to having the thing create some standard baseclass entitites (appearflags, target/targetname, monster, player) and then having the parser try to deduce if the fgd should inherit from a baseclass or not.
eventually, when the gui is working, you'd be able to both parse pre-made def files but also just make your own in the gui itself and fix up badly interpreted defs.
additionally, i'd love to have it be able to scan through an entire qc source project looking for entity defs, matching if they have been added or modified from the current database and then updating it with only new entities... or whatever... dunno how far i'll get.
i'll have more info depending on where it's at next week.
.def -> .ent?
#11671 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.216.106] on 2012/02/05 01:58:50
#11672 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/05 04:22:18
copy the .def file and rename it to .ent?
Def Files
#11673 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.157.245] on 2012/02/05 07:52:32
Do have inheritance I think. Doesn't quake.def contain an abstract definition for lights from which all other lights inherit?
#11674 posted by banksy [121.45.80.209] on 2012/02/05 08:00:44
All i want to know is how to stop my maps deleting themselves?
.ent Files
#11675 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.206.220] on 2012/02/05 15:54:30
.ent files are XML
The ones used by Netradiant atleast are.
#11676 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/05 17:46:40
oh then that's not what i was talking about in my previous post then.
.ent is the plain text format used for QE3, which is just QC block comments with a description of the entity.
i doubt i'll touch the netradiant one, at least until i can get gtkr/qe3 <-> fgd working.
if it's xml though, it should probably be easier than parsing FGDs since i could just use the java xml parsers, but it's beyond the scope of what i want to do for now.
Banksy
#11677 posted by ijed [186.37.202.189] on 2012/02/05 20:34:57
not many mac users here, thats why there's not many answers.
Try what negke said though - open the .map file in a text editor. If there's still stuff there them your level editor is broke. Maybe try Toetag, which I think is 'the' mac level editor for quake.
If the .map is empty in a text editor then its an OS problem - no idea.
On A Phone Here...
#11678 posted by ijed [186.37.202.189] on 2012/02/05 20:53:28
urban terror?
Expertise here is focused on q1, sorry.
Banksy
#11679 posted by ijed [186.37.202.189] on 2012/02/05 20:54:00
not many mac users here, thats why there's not many answers.
Try what negke said though - open the .map file in a text editor. If there's still stuff there them your level editor is broke. Maybe try Toetag, which I think is 'the' mac level editor for quake.
If the .map is empty in a text editor then its an OS problem - no idea.
Yo
#11680 posted by Kinn [86.181.77.123] on 2012/02/08 22:37:54
Ok, I'm trying to dust down the mapping cobwebs so I'm a bit rusty. I have but one question:
I traditionally use bengt jardrup's tools - which bsp.exe should I be using - TxQbsp, or TreeQbsp - and why?
#11681 posted by necros [99.227.132.108] on 2012/02/08 23:10:38
txqbsp. he worked on that one more iirc.
also, strictly speaking, you shouldn't be using the original aguirre tools except for the bsp program.
Willem and Tuna successfully got multi threading going on vis based off his version ( http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wv... ), and MH has an excellent version that adds coloured lighting while retaining all the old light functionality (sun, outdoor minlight, attenuation5, etc...) ( http://mhquake.blogspot.com/2010/1... )
Quoth Minimum Pack?
#11682 posted by Ghd Fladjern Tilbud [178.70.205.104] on 2012/02/09 11:47:00
Is there an official Quoth minimum package, with no maps skyboxes and all the extra stuff?
No
#11683 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2012/02/09 11:56:54
What would be the point?

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