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Posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/24 12:14:33
I have just made the transition to Worldcraft 3.3 (using the Quakeadapter package) from 1.6, and althought I was a little reluctant because I worried about changes to a system I had got used to, I have found it so far much better. I start this thread to see what the general concensus is on which package is the best, or if this is a subject which is highly debatable...

This Old Thread Is A Good Place To Start:
#1 posted by metlslime [71.202.113.29] on 2007/10/24 12:30:35
http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
Ironic
#2 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/24 13:18:26
The first entry in the thread you have linked to is almost exactly the same, must be a recurring topic...
I suppose things move on in time, people might have changed their views in the last three-odd years or new software has come out or been improved on.
Well
#3 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/24 14:27:02
I'm still using WC 1.6a, I tried 3.3 but the limit on wad size was an annoyance - it's maps also aren't compatible with 1.6a.
I'm thinking I'll move to the BSP editor soon, it seems to be highly rated.
In WC 1.6a the texture alignment problems are irritating, also alot of the general geometry errors that creep in when making complicated stuff from lots of triangles, though I'm not sure how much of that is down to the compile tools or just the ancient editor.
Also, metslime, would it be possible to link add a couple of the older threads to the sticky's? Namely 'Teaching old progs dat new tricks' and maybe 'when hard is too hard'.
I mean those threads that are generally useful and anyone new to the forum won't know about immediately. Just a thought.
I Recommend Everyone To Install
#4 posted by rudl [193.171.131.241] on 2007/10/24 14:45:50
Quark, because it is not only map editor.
1)It can open all sort of quake related files
2)Has a cool texture browser
3)can extract textures from bsps
4)can open bsps!
5)It is going to be a model-editor too somewhen in the future, at the moment it's more a model viewer
6)real-time lightning!
7)and a lot of other things I forgot to mention
At the moment I try to understand BSP a bit, but It's hard to switch, because the editors are so diverse
Worldcraft: Tried it, crashed all the time :(
NOTEPAD, Suckers!
#5 posted by negke [82.83.17.34] on 2007/10/24 14:51:24
Also: make the #tf drama threads sticky
I Found
#6 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/10/24 15:14:05
BSP to be utter shit when I looked it back in the early days. It's completely inflexible and downright anachronistic and 2D in style.
Maybe it's got different options today but the old 2d and isometric views and the height bar were horrible horrible ideas and make me think it was just a quick hack from some Doom map editor or so...
Worldcraft was completely intuitive and made sense from the start. Three 2D views and a 3D view.
Haven't tried quark, maybe it is good as well.
GTKRadiant 1.4 isn't compatible with Quake (requires some elaborate hacks) and in 1.5 you can't shear brushes. Otherwise it could be great.
But that's just me, listen to the real mappers. Like czg. He uses Worldcraft 1.6.
1.6 Is Good...
#7 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/24 15:42:19
but I found sometimes if you have brushes at wierd angles, textures might look aligned in Worldcraft 3d view, but when you go to run the map in Quake the textures are missaligned. I was having this problem with the map I'm working on now, thought it might have been a problem related to Qbsp, but when I upgraded to 3.3 I loaded and ran the same map, un-changed and when I ran the map the problems were fixed.
I find in 1.6 that if you have a complex group of brushes with diagonals etc, if you rotate the group the textures will be missaligned. 3.3 fixes that too! Also having OpenGL 3D view is much faster and gives a much more accurate projection of the map. With Sickbase I didnt use any visgroups and I found towards the end that the 3D view was drawing at less than 1 fps, very frustrating. I loaded the map in 3.3 and whad'ya know... Eeess goooood!
No, I Use Ogier
#8 posted by czg [213.115.252.84] on 2007/10/24 16:58:19
Best editor ever. I had to write my own map exporter for the new version though.
Ricky
#9 posted by aguirRe [212.151.10.177] on 2007/10/24 20:04:19
I recommend switching to TxQBSP or add the -oldaxis option to TreeQBSP if you're using WC 1.6. This should cure the 45 degree tex errors.
Top Three Map Editors
#10 posted by bear [83.251.214.200] on 2007/10/25 10:05:25
1. None of the editors I've tried deserve this spot because they are all more or less horrible.
2. Ogier
3. Radiant.
Ogier?
#11 posted by Urre [213.153.113.27] on 2007/10/25 10:17:58
I thought I had tried all editors, will need to check that one out. For me, it's all about BSP, and I was really looking forward to Quake 3 support, but now according to the latest news post that will most likely never happen :(
Well well, that's life I guess. I still use it for Q3 mapping, it'd be cool to have proper support for it though, so I don't have to make .wals of all the textures I use for in-editor viewing (I make the maps in Q2 mode, and compile with q3map2). ASE support would be neat too. Don't even need patches, cause they're evil anyway.
bambuz: You can rearrange the windows the way you like. There's even some default window layout schemes in one of the menus, don't remember which one. The 3 2d window + 1 3d window layout is there.
3.3 - 3.3 - 3.3 ! !
#12 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/25 15:34:48
Has support for glass in func_walls, attenuation on lights automated.
Does anybody else use it, if so, do you know how to increase the brightness of the textures? Thats my only qualm. :(
Should Be . . .
#13 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/25 15:37:20
In tools/options texture tab. There should be a slider darker / brighter if I remember rightly.
Hmmm
#14 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/25 15:44:02
There deffo was in 1.6, but I'm sure I've looked in 3.3 and couldnt find!
This Ogier Thing...
#15 posted by Urre [213.153.113.27] on 2007/10/25 16:04:18
Hmm, weird that they'd include support for Quake, guess they're old fans or something. But Starbreeze are cool, so it's all okay :)
RickyT23
#16 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/10/25 20:57:57
I have the same brightness problem with 3.3. I used to just turn the screen brightness up in NVidia's control panel, but they made the latest version of that really shit so now I close the curtains and map in a darkened room. I suppose that makes it more atmospheric.
Yeah
#17 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/26 10:42:16
Im kinda having to do similar things, or just squinting a lot. Typical that the program is 100% except for one nigling issue like that!
These Editor Wars Are Just Silly
#18 posted by Orl [70.106.120.171] on 2007/10/27 18:01:21
Everyone has different tastes when it comes to what editor they prefer to use. Me, I use WC 1.6 because I am most comfortable with it.
I have tried Quark before and did not care for it. That does not mean it isn't good, it more than likely is, but I just don't care for it.
Saying that an editor sucks just because you think it does, doesn't make it so. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
But what it really comes down to is what you can make with it. As long as you create great Q1 maps, then it doesn't matter to me what editor you use, whether it be WC, Quark, Radient, BSP or something entirely different. All that matters is how you use the editor you use, to make some stunning creations.
That's The Bunny.
#19 posted by ijed [190.20.88.251] on 2007/10/27 18:05:59
Who was it that was using a text editor to write a map - sure I remember hearing something about this.
#20 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2007/10/27 22:02:42
I had to write my own map exporter for the new version though.
For Q3?
No For Q1
#21 posted by czg [83.253.234.172] on 2007/10/28 01:30:57
The Q1 support that comes with it has been deteriorating for the last few versions, so I found it better to write a converter from XMP to Q1 so I get all the benefits of the XMP (Grouping, layers, hiding, excluding)
#22 posted by wrath [213.112.29.132] on 2007/10/28 11:44:43
ok
Hmmmm
#23 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/28 16:48:34
What does it lool like if you open .map in Wordpad? Who in their right mind could make head nor tale of it (I dunno, I have never seen .map code)
Interesting. I'm gonna go and have a look at one.
Well
#24 posted by aguirRe [212.151.13.239] on 2007/10/28 18:15:12
I used TextPad to fix up sickbase and many other maps ...
You can setup a custom syntax colour file for TextPad to make it a bit easier to read. Same for qconsole.log files, QC and anything else you want to improve readability for.
Whoa!
#25 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/10/31 14:29:00
opened a map file on txt and its actually neatly organized :)
there should be a speedmap with nothing but notepad created levels.
anyway, i use wolrdcraft v1.6. always have. the 1st ever editor i ever used was quoole and remember doing a small room for quake2 with some crates and it sucked because i think (though i might be way off) you had to click on a button to move up and down, then another to move right and left. dunno if it was like this...
always wanted to learn qradiant, but it always crashed for me! so i gave up many years ago. dunno why it never opened... :-(
Forgot To Say
#26 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/10/31 14:32:31
that its true what some of you said. worldcraft 1.6 does suck at weird angled texture alignment and very weird brushes.
but i still use it anyway. too lazy to learn anything else now :)
Hmmm - Try 3.3...
#27 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/10/31 15:07:06
I have, since changing to it, found a few problems with tex alignment, but only with really amitious brushwork, and after a little extra experimentation found that I was able to solve these problems.
WC 3.3 has texture justification button (Left, Right, Top, bottom, centre, fit. These are really usefull.
Also in 1.6 if you make a crate for example, aligned to the grid, the textures are easy to fit, but if you want to rotate the brush (on any axis) you have to stretch and align the textures manually, then if you decide to move it again you have to re-align. with 3.3 you dont - you just rotate the brush (with the texture-lock feature enabled) and the textures stay aligned perfectly!
Brilliant!
Also OpenGL renderer for 3D view works much better, looks almost like an un-lit Quake.
The setup and functionallity of the program is otherwise almost identical to 1.6, so the transition as pretty much painless.
I would try it if you havent, cause you'll probably find you like it!
But..
#28 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/10/31 21:47:28
..with 3.3 don't you need some weird workaround to make it work for quake?
Wads
#29 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/10/31 22:08:40
You need to convert the texture wads to half-life format, it won't load quake wads any more. But as long as you use compilers like aguirre's:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
then everything else just works as before. I've got a command line tool that converts a wad from quake to half life, but I don't have a link to it handy...
#30 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/11/01 00:48:08
i have aguirre's tools. whenever he updates, i get them. :)
so whats what i need to do then. convert q1 into hl format. man, i had no idea about this! well, i'll check into it tonight. must go lie on floor and play music all day. :)
Found This Page
#31 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/11/01 00:52:06
http://www.quakeone.com/qadapter/
haven't tried the stuff yet, but it looks easy enough to follow. very surprised since i have never found anything so fast before on this internets :D
Qonverge
#32 posted by Preach [131.111.213.35] on 2007/11/01 01:34:42
Yeah, that's the utility that does it, qonverge! The guide there seems to have missed the pun in the title, but is otherwise on the money.
WC3.3 Adapter
#33 posted by ijed [190.20.106.126] on 2007/11/01 02:24:19
It's another one of Baker's 'f0r n00bs' projects that installs / unpacks the lot with zero messing about; worked perfectly when I used it.
Yea'
#34 posted by Text_Fish [82.32.1.90] on 2007/11/01 09:49:26
Qadaptor saves my bacon every time I reformat the ol' HDD.
Yeah
#35 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/01 12:08:40
I wouldnt try using 3.3 without the Quadapter package, cause I wouldnt know where to start with converting wads to hlwads, (well, I could muddle around with some sort of wad util like wally or suchlike, but it would be a pain in the arse), but the Quadapter does it all automatic, or if it dont, you can find the included conversion tool in the worldcraft dir and run it from there.
Note:
Quadapter needs to have worldcraft in c:\program files\worldcraft\
Its hard-coded that way.
Although it all sounds like a ball-ache, its really easy to set up - just like 'click ok, click next, click ok again and then its ready to go'.
If you've had it with 1.6, just do it!
Also I installed it directly over 1.6, without removing it first, and no problems!
#36 posted by nakasuhito [75.165.233.108] on 2007/11/02 03:39:02
well, 3.3 is not so different from 1.6. but its faster on 3d view. very fast :)
it was very easy to do. hopefully this will give me a little bit more energy to get some maps finished! agh. why?!! why cant i finish a level!! even a little one. like a start map or something. :'(
Hmm
#37 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/02 10:10:32
I find myself sat staring at the TV, imagining an environment I could put in a level. Or my girlfriend will be talking to me and Im not listening cause my mind is drifting through what rooms or layout I could put in.
'Oh sorry, could you say that again??!'
Its hard to come up with a good idea often. I wouldnt try to make something without first having an idea of what it would look like.
Anyone ever tried to write a song or a piece of music? - Even harder!
nakasuhito - play through some of the speedmaps, very inspirational!
Speedmapping
#38 posted by ijed [190.20.90.254] on 2007/11/02 15:03:19
Is very good for starting mapping - don't try to make it too pretty or nice, just throw it together and put a start and a finish. You don't have to release if you don't want and it can help galvanise you for better projects.
Bunny
#39 posted by MadFox [84.26.196.113] on 2007/11/03 19:02:33
I once mentioned my gladness about DeathMatchMaker, and someone pounded me off it would do better in a txt editor, concerning the texture alignment mistake of 1%.
But I haven't found an editor with such a handy multipolygon tool shaper.
And... I finally found a version of WC1.6
Texteditor Map Editing Tutorial
#40 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/21 14:37:27
Is there such a thing?
Can't figure out how it works
Well
#41 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/11/21 15:03:53
From my (little) experience, I wouldnt try to create world brushes using a text editor, much easier with an editor like Worldcraft, QuArK or Radient...
Text .map editing is usefull for ammending entities. The best way of picking it up is to look at some .map source files from already made maps, included in .zip files with many released custom maps. A good place to look might me the Speedmap archives.
Just open the .map file with something like Notepad and look at the Worldspawn entities at the top, and all of the other entities towards the end of the file. Very educational!
This Might Help
#42 posted by aguirRe [213.101.69.166] on 2007/11/21 16:54:07
http://qref.planetquake.gamespy.co...
Cool Thanks
#43 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/21 18:47:30
Know I know what a brush actually is: The substraction of planes -> And why only konvex brushes are possible
#44 posted by rudl [78.104.5.113] on 2007/11/22 10:50:19
I'll switch to bsp, QuArK + Vista = :(
#45 posted by inertia [24.164.66.190] on 2007/11/25 09:19:11
Vista + ? = :(
No Not Really
#46 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/25 12:14:49
I expected that a lot more programs are not running properly on Vista, could have been a lot worse.
Yeah
#47 posted by Mr Fribbles [220.253.45.92] on 2007/11/25 15:48:39
In actual fact, all of my Quake stuff is fine in Vista (along with most everything else). GtkRadiant, FitzQuake, and the QW clients I use all work without any real issues.
The only real headache I had was with Winamp, which for the past few versions would constantly crash on loading playlists or while switching between songs on a playlist. That's finally fixed in the latest update (thankfully!)
In short, the few issues I've had with apps under Vista were usually easily resolved by updating the app or getting new drivers.
#48 posted by rudl [193.171.131.245] on 2007/11/25 18:16:47
Qrack crashes a bit too often, QuArK has few more bugs and, but the rest of quakestuff works without problems.
Apart from that Sonic Stage and MD drivers didn't work, had to download the Vista driver.
#49 posted by Mikko [91.153.54.88] on 2007/12/06 01:43:47
Asked this in Mapping Help but I might as well ask it here too:
Anyone here mapped for HL/CS etc.? Because I'm just wondering that, if I were to make something for Half-Life (the original), should I use Worldcraft 3 or Hammer (Steam SDK)?
They Both Work As Far As I Know.
#50 posted by czg [83.253.234.172] on 2007/12/06 02:09:32
Hammer is probably more up to date, so I'd go for that.
Ooh - I Just Had Another Thought (it Didnt Hurt Either!!)
#51 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/12/12 14:45:30
Worldcraft 3.3 has supper for multiple .fgd files to be loaded simnultaneously! This can be usefully if you have fgd with some entities missing, and others with other entities missing!
One negative thing too:
Apparently there have been a few bugs with using hi-res textures with my current map: Missalignments ONLY with external textures!?! I dont use external textures (could never really figure out how to install them in different engines) so I was unaware! I wander if this is to do with the texture lock feature?
Supper = Support
#52 posted by RickyT23 [217.44.37.26] on 2007/12/12 14:47:12
Bsp+AA 16 Times
#53 posted by rudl [78.104.0.137] on 2008/01/26 15:05:30
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408...
Xmp Converter
#54 posted by rudl [78.104.27.223] on 2008/03/30 20:12:52
Best editor ever. I had to write my own map exporter for the new version though.
Where can I find this exporter? sounds really interesting.
WorldCraft 3.3 Adapter For Quake 2?
#55 posted by 8IronBob [68.107.185.83] on 2008/10/25 06:48:58
I noticed that WC 3.3 had an adapter for the original Quake, downloaded that, and very impressed with how well that handles. However, I keep hearing that WC 3.3 should also work as well as Quake 2 as well, am I not correct? I'm considering giving that a whirl. Anyone know if an adapter for that been released as of late?
Don't Think So
#56 posted by ijed [190.20.119.25] on 2008/10/25 16:14:36
But ask Baker over on QuakeOne -
http://www.quakeone.com/
Should Work
#57 posted by RickyT23 [90.213.8.248] on 2008/10/25 18:26:38
Just set up an fdg file, and get your Q2 tools set up, no? Is the Q2 .map file format not pretty much the same, just with different ents?
You would need a BSP tool which can handle Valve 220 texture info...
I use AguirRe's QBSP for Q1 map compiling, and he's now working with the Quake2 engine, I would email him perhaps?
Texture Flags
#58 posted by rudl [78.104.4.225] on 2008/10/25 20:43:39
is the main difference I think.
Not too fond of all q2map compilers I tried so far:(
#59 posted by metlslime [67.180.230.20] on 2008/10/25 21:22:14
i thought Arghrad was the best for lighting, especially for the fake phong lighting it featured. I think i just used stock qbsp3 and qvis3.
Compilers
#60 posted by ijed [190.20.119.25] on 2008/10/25 22:23:28
The best when I was mapping Q2 were those by Geoffrey DeWan.
And I reckon Q2 has some other stuff in there that doesn't mesh with Q1 - like game type that they axed in WC when switching it over.
Argrad Is The Best
#61 posted by rudl [78.104.25.19] on 2008/10/26 14:00:25
supports a lot of sunlight features, but unfortunately the light quality of all tools even with extra is not that good, especially with sunlight.
Hmm
#62 posted by SleepwalkR [85.179.11.164] on 2008/10/26 14:32:12
I thought that arglight, with the correct settings, delivered very good results. It takes a little tweaking, but using sunlight you can create a very nice atmosphere, esp. when it somewhat contrasts the setting of your map.
WorldCraft 3.3 Adapter For Quake 2?
#63 posted by WizardExt [83.248.240.248] on 2009/07/31 12:16:57
I read about the adapter for Q1, but is there an adapter for Q2? I have used Worldcraft 1.6 when mapping for Q2 for 10 years and would love to be able to use version 3.3. Version 1.6 has stopped working giving me a crash on startup, maybe due to some conflict towards new drivers or hardware.
Anyway, hope to hear some news.
Email Baker
#64 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2009/07/31 16:59:35
He assembled the adapter so will know more or less what you'll need.
He didn't actually make the tools, just packaged them - so most likely the same conversion of textures etc. will exist already, just a case of knowing what and which.

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