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Posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/07 02:10:02

Being without easy access to internet, Tronyn asked me to release his Map/Mod collaboration pack for him. I'm quite pleased to present Arcanum for your Q1SP needs.
This is a fantastic collaboration that contains 5 very large blue/metal/knave maps + start map; one map by distrans, one map by Pulsar and four maps by Tronyn! Grab it here: Arcanum (18mb)
Please note: This map pack relies on the Drake mod by PM, which features many new monsters and weapons. If you don't have it, you can grab it here: Drake (17mb)
Installation instructions from the readme:
Place all files in your DRAKE subdirectory in your Quake directory, ie c:\quake\drake290111.
Start the game (Quake engine of choice).exe -game (drake directory) +map arcstart.
You probably want to use a larger heapsize. Custom engine required: FitzQuake, Quakespasm, RMQEngine, Darkplaces, etc. You know the drill.
necros' note: If you have a slower machine, you may wish to enable the "r_flatlightstyles 1" console command (in fitzquake variants at least or otherwise try 'r_dynamic 0') to disable flickering lights as some maps have quite a lot of them and it can drastically increase framerate on some computers.
Tronyn was also kind enough to release the source files for his maps if you want to poke around in them. On top of that, there are two extra maps contained in this archive, which are unfinished but still very cool and totally worth a look-see. Grab the sources here: Arcanum Sources (8mb)
necros' note on the sources: at the moment, only Worldcraft users will be able to make use of them, as, though Tronyn did include raw .map files alongside the .rmf files, they contain extended texturing parameters that may not be parsed correctly by other map editors. It wasn't worth delaying this excellent release to try to fix it though. If some solution is found, I'll happily update the archive.
Also note that while Tronyn is gone, he won't be able to respond directly in this thread (although, i believe he mentioned he has somewhat consistent internet connectivity until monday) so he won't be able to answer questions or whatnot but he didn't want to delay this release any longer.
Enjoy! ^_^
Screenshots:
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...

And
#1 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/07 02:24:46
these maps are all awesome. ironically, tronyn says in his readme that these maps are atypical for him because they take place indoors, yet the indoor areas are so large, they feel outdoor, and there's some great parallax effects from pillars and bridges that really make these huge areas come alive.
gameplay was pretty manageable, and i only started dying on the final boss fight which is pretty rough, but it's the capstone of a 5map pack.
map4 is maybe a little tough due to sniper ogres. still, you get powerful weapons to help deal with them and there's lots of ammo so wiping them out isn't a problem.
good solid few hours of quake.
Screenies?
#2 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/07 02:29:21
#3 posted by Zwiffle [24.209.173.255] on 2011/05/07 03:09:24
Damn of course this gets released while I'm out of town!! Can't wait to play it.
Rats
#4 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/07 03:14:10
i forgot!
Here are the screenshots:
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
http://necros.quaddicted.com/downl...
(if a mod would be kind enough to edit this into the OP, that'd be great!)
2nd Screenie Looks Tremendous
#5 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/07 03:28:58
#6 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/07 04:55:03
Glad to finally see the map(s) released, i quite enjoyed arcdemo.
#7 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/07 05:40:04
and -nomtex on slower machines, that way you don't lose the flickering lights
WOOOOOOO!!!!
#8 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/07 06:19:27
...
Downloading.
#9 posted by Lightning Hunter [75.70.208.115] on 2011/05/07 10:58:26
Does this work in Qrack?
I Get Numerous Errors
#10 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/07 11:01:19
at map startups, safe to ignore?
Using fitz.
Argh, I Guess This Is A "mod"
#11 posted by Spirit [80.171.155.107] on 2011/05/07 11:34:26
sound/music/warp.wav is Dotkrąz vs Idle Sunder - Reflectional Feedback from http://www.archive.org/details/ntt...
http://creativecommons.org/license...
Please be nice to freely released music, don't trample on the licenses.
#12 posted by Spirit [80.171.155.107] on 2011/05/07 12:43:24
I should mention, the title and the body of my post above have nothing to do with eachother!
Wow
#13 posted by ijed [190.22.51.208] on 2011/05/07 14:25:38
This looks great, downloading.
Lightning Hunter
#14 posted by Trinca [89.154.57.245] on 2011/05/07 15:43:10
fitz or directq
#15 posted by gb [46.142.59.222] on 2011/05/07 17:09:29
RMQengine renders lots of flickering lights really well.
I guess I'll have to play this.
RMQ Lighting
#16 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/07 18:17:47
is also much brighter and 'flat' than regular fitz, it seems to me - is this the case for anyone else?
There Are
#17 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/05/07 18:49:07
Controls for the contrast and brightness.
No Thanks
#18 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.177] on 2011/05/07 19:08:18
The first map is abysmal in my opinion. It's way the fuck too dark and I got stuck right away after killing the zombies. So supposedly something happened because it said "sequence completed", but I couldn't find out what. Add to that the idiotic rain (subtracts from the atmosphere more than it adds to it), the headache-inducing music and the overall crampyness, and you really feel you're in hell. In a bad way.
This release, as many of tronyns releases, is just not for me.
#19 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/07 22:36:50
After you kill all of the zombie, the way into the "basement" will be opened.
#20 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/05/07 22:54:29
Thirty seconds in I got the Nightmare entrance figured out, what a great 'fuck yea' moment that was.
This will be grand.
Wow
#21 posted by PuLSaR [93.81.80.131] on 2011/05/08 03:49:44
what a surprise. for many years i thought that i needed to finish my map and suddenly the mod is released o_0
Yhe1
#22 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.177] on 2011/05/08 07:30:39
The cellar door on the right was accessible before all the zombies were dead (on normal). And in the cellar, I didn't see a way to get to the Gold key, so I gave up due to the piercing headache I got from the music.
#23 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/08 07:31:50
Delete the wav files
Hint
#24 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/08 07:36:51
You need to get the sliver key first
Nah
#25 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.57.177] on 2011/05/08 08:00:22
I'll just skip to the 2nd map and see if it's any good.
#26 posted by spy [89.218.27.5] on 2011/05/08 08:42:33
I'll just skip to the 2nd map and see if it's any good.
yeah, the follow maps are pretty impressive, 'specially 3,4,5
Played First 3
#27 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/08 14:11:42
the awesomeness and evilness of 2 and 3 is epic. Pulsar's map is the best so far.
Sleep
#28 posted by ijed [190.22.65.9] on 2011/05/08 14:56:49
ADD is a terrible affliction.
Finished It
#29 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/08 15:22:59
loved it, last 2 maps also great but Pulsar's still the pick for me.
Give It More Time
#30 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/08 17:49:47
I'm on Arcanum 3 now, and it's pretty much blowing my mind how good it is.
Great to see a Pulsar map too! Well done dude.
Hey Ijed
#31 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.118.40] on 2011/05/08 18:04:23
<yawn>
Seriously Though
#32 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.118.40] on 2011/05/08 18:16:47
I guess you're trying to say, in your crippled way, that my complaints are not valid, maybe because I am using the wrong tone or whatever. But does anyone really like that rain? It doesn't even remotely look like rain.
Ok, I just checked, now I see that there's a second door behind the right cellar door which opens after you killed the zombies. There is no message though, and frankly, I simply couldn't see that because it's too dark. I would guess that the darkness is related to me using a Mac, but I can see on the screenies that the map(s) are really this dark. I find that very annoying. I have nothing against dark corners, but I have something against areas that are so dark that you can't even make out where you are supposed to go.
The music sounds horrible on my machine. Maybe it's better if you use another engine or -sndspeed 44100 in QS, but the way it is, it is very much like noise to my ears. And yeah, I really liked the warpspasm soundtrack, so the music style is not the problem. It's the horrible quality.
But yeah, I guess I should look at the other maps. But I have to say that I find your comment really really stupid, and you're quickly moving up on my personal func idiot list, which you weren't even on before the whole RMQ fiasko. It's one thing to criticize my tone, which was indeed inappropriate, but it's another thing to simply invalidate my comments like that.
Still, I give you massive props for warpspasm, which I think is the best Quake release I have played since marcher.
God, what a fucking rant. You must have hit a nerve.
I Think
#33 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/08 19:12:31
I think with Drake, impulse 117 turns off music. You're free to find the first map frustrating with all the close combat, and the rain effect is subjective though I thought it added to the mood. As for the darkness, it sucks but it varies a lot from system to system... all I can say is it looked good on the systems I tested on. Thanks for the comments so far.
Oh
#34 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/08 19:15:33
and of course giant thanks to Necros for releasing this, as I'm across the country now and won't have internet access after tomorrow for quite a while. And lol, Pulsar, thanks for your patience!
Tronyn
#35 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.118.40] on 2011/05/08 20:20:01
The darkness appears to be deliberate because all the screenies look very dark, too. But yeah, it's still problematic to get it right across all systems.
The rain... I can't get over that. Seriously, am I the only one who thinks it looks like some throwing nails from the sky? Well, that's just a minor nuisance, anyway. I'll try the other maps later on.
On Brightness And Other Things
#36 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/08 20:34:23
as one of the guys here who's notorious for saying 'i see nothing but black and a few points of light' when commenting on screenshots, the darkness in the engine didn't seem to cause much problems for me.
i think i nudged quakespasm brightness up 1 or 2 notches and i use the wand for illumination (which is the intent, i believe?).
in some ways, i think it's unfortunate that arcanum1 is the first map. it's decidedly less impressive than the last 4. that said, i'm not a fan of the rain either. it's clearly falling in huge clumps and there's no rain sound. o.0
and yes, i deleted the arcanum1 music. it's not even that it's THAT annoying, but that the clip is so short, so it repeats very obviously.
the other ones were fine (and, apparently, some maps use the warp music AND cd track music, and they blend well together).
concerning that locked door after killing the zombies, when i was testing this again, i didn't pause on that one very long. i played arcanum1 like a few months ago i think, when tronyn released it as the arcanum demo so i already knew where to go. i should have hacked the counter to say "basement door has opened" or something though. that's my bad, as tronyn asked me to make any last minute h4x0r changes i felt were needed and i missed that one.
So Far.
#37 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/08 20:39:57
Played maps 1 and 2.
Gameplay in map 1 is meh.
Spiders are meh.
Faggot wizard dudes are just nonsense. Boss one even worse.
Footsteps are annoying but get in enough combat and it's easy to forget them.
Music is an instant OFF.
Gremlins are welcome back!
New SG and SSG are good for combat BUT need new models.
Ruby wand is gay as fuck model BUT is excellent in gameplay. Charge up is fine, pushback is cool, lighting effect is very cool. A definite enhancement to gameplay and vibe being able to light up areas.
Rain is fine, best Quake can do.
First map is okay.
Second map is excellent and full of impressiveness.
Gameplay so far is....generally all good in the second map. Lots of variety, lots of action, lots of balance.
Re Brightness
#38 posted by Spirit [80.171.82.5] on 2011/05/08 21:15:43
It would be tremendously helpful to have a standard brightness/contrast/gamma test map. With both stock Quake textures and replacement textures (engines might handle them differently), if possible viewable at the same time (eg one half of the screen).
One or more spawnpoints that can be used to test specific things.
That way one could make people adjust their monitors or Quake settings according to Quake. Obviously the map and the guidelines would need to be created on a perfectly calibrated monitor and by someone who knows how to provide a good testing environment.
Heheh
#39 posted by ijed [190.22.65.9] on 2011/05/08 21:50:32
You must have hit a nerve.
I agree with some of your comments, but yeah, the tone was pretty rude considering the effort put into the pack by everyone who worked on it.
My default opinion on anything that comes out is 'good' but this is better, at least so far.
The RMQ fiasco continues, don't worry.
1st Map
#40 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/08 22:05:05
isn't indicative of later maps, in my opinion.
I like it just fine though - I think the rain, along with the trees, the lighting, the gameplay - it's less about lack of quality or polish and more about reaching towards a certain aesthetic, which I like. It's like playing an ambitious map from 1997 or something, with much of that wild creativity still intact - just much higher quality. Kind of like CZG03, but more E4... maybe that's a bad comparison, but you get the point.
Definitely though, it is less impressive than the later maps - and I really do prefer the more ambient, less overtly low quality music in those levels.
Also yeah, spiders were meh, compared to some of the others - I'm thinking Travail - I remember liking those notably big and tough spiders a lot.
#41 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/08 22:11:19
one thing that's good about the spiders is that they are very slow and not very dangerous at all.
i like that it's not psycho-quick and impossible to hit.
Tronyn/necros
#42 posted by PuLSaR [93.81.80.245] on 2011/05/08 22:28:55
is it possible to replace my map with newer version and upload a new pak? it has some visual bug fixes and minor ballance changes (also there are places that you can walk/jump easier.
#43 posted by PuLSaR [93.81.80.245] on 2011/05/08 22:29:22
tho i haven't heard any flaws so far =)
Great Pack
#44 posted by ericw [161.184.107.71] on 2011/05/08 22:44:25
props to tronyn and everyone for for this impressive release! I'd been looking forward to this since seeing the original arcane wizard screenshots and it was awesome to see it happen.
map 1 was the weakest IMHO but still good. I got stuck at the same place as when I played the demo (took me ages to find the silver key room when I first entered the basement- I think it was around a corner that's really hard to see.) Also I couldn't fit though the hole in the floor at first. I wouldn't mind more maps using bolder music like this, especially over-the-top doom inspired ones. It reminded me a bit of some of the music in the DVII doom mod.
map 2 was really sweet. solid knave map, really polished. restrained compared with what is to come!
map 3 & 4 started to get insane. I felt each could have been the finale of any other pack. The blue theme looked great. These maps may have had the most buttons/doors of any Q1SP ;) In places the visual or gameplay polish wasn't up to the standard of the best recent releases but the awesome scale and atmosphere made up for that for me.
map 5 wicked theme. satisfyingly over the top conclusion. I have to play it again because I couldn't quite make it through the end battle.
the drake mod is pretty cool - I like the beefier weapons (chainsaw, riot controller, although it would have been cool to use the zer model for that). Did the SNG have an even higher fire rate? Probably too much normally but it worked here :-).
Map 3.
#45 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/08 22:50:21
Continues the general greatness (+annoying wizards) of map 2. Still a bit dark to fully appreciate the designs tho. Some classic gameplay moments there.
Yeah
#46 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/08 23:55:56
I've been trying to finish this all day. Though the gameplay in these is somewhat restrained by Tronyn standards, that final fight is basically impossible for me at this point!
I think the riot controller actually was in the original Arc Demo - definitely different than the drake shotgun which is merely 2x as powerful (I think). I would have preferred the riot controller though - it's my favourite since it does the double tap thing, allowing you to juggle between enemies - really fun to use on groups of less powerful enemies etc.
Actually
#47 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/09 00:22:29
just tried again, but something weird is going on. when I try to load my saves all the models are screwed up - the invisibility powerup is a lightning gun, and all other models are wonky too - any idea what's going on here?
#48 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 00:57:44
sounds like a bug in the drake mod. i dunno if PM is hanging around these days, but he might have to look into that.
this kind of thing happens when models and sounds aren't precached in the same order. basically, the engine just assigns a number to represent a certain model or sound, but these numbers are set incrementally as the engine sorts through the progs and sees a precache function call. if the precaches are not being loaded in the same order, then the saved precache numbers won't match.
...... i think.
so yeah... i guess i'm not all that helpful here, sorry. afaik, there's no way to fix that kind of thing once it has.
Brightness
#49 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/09 02:03:57
I must say I had no issues with the pak being overly dark, never once used the wand for illumination.
As for the rain, it fit into that particular map's aesthetic as someone else said. Not to be used universally though.
Maps 2-5 are seriously special IMHO.
Pulsar
#50 posted by nitin [124.149.87.245] on 2011/05/09 02:05:09
if anything's broken, it's certainly not noticeable.
Bummer.
#51 posted by Drew [65.92.27.148] on 2011/05/09 05:13:29
That`s too bad, since the boss fight is the kind of thing that makes me ragequit, hahaha!
#52 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 05:34:21
hehe damn.
i suppose you could just noclip back there and impulse 9 it, but it's just not the same. :P
Good Job !!!
#53 posted by JPL [82.227.229.44] on 2011/05/09 08:40:48
What others said...
Just my complains about this shity music that ruins the first map.... Overall great atmosphere, great map, well executed... some areas are too dark, but it is manageable.. Got lost many times, but rewarded by secret finding during "additional" exploration...
Tips and Tricks to prevent from music: Just Quick save, and reload... the music vanishes away ;)
Well Done Pack, With Quite A Few Quirks...
#54 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/09 12:21:37
Wow!
I spent the better part of the weekend playing this monster, and thought I'd share some impressions.
I first run through it on normal skill, wanting to avoid ragequit (I like that!) like with the ARWOP boss battle (which I have not completed yet, and will not even try again) and I must say that gameplay is A WHOLE LOT more balanced than per usual Tronyn's offerings. I restarted on skill 3 and, up to map 4 things are totally manageable, and that's great!
Secrets are coherent and not overly mind bending, a bit more variety in items contained may offer some gameplay twist, but they're quite good as they are.
Architecture is as wonderful from map 2 onwards as it is flawed in map 1. Rain and trees look like they've been built in 1996 and the whole map has a similar feel to it. While I'm a sucker for a classic vibe, I think map 1 is just too far behind in build quality and overall effect to stand comparison with the quality of subsequent ones.
The first zombie battle remains seriously flawed as it was in the demo (and, having already been pointed out how this did not really seem to work, one wonders why this has not been taken care of), playing it on skill 3 the only gameplay ability required is a very fast quickload finger...
There's an area, behind the tombs on the left where the zombies stand that you cannot escape without noclipping, and it's rather easy to fall into it since killing the zombie requires jumping on top of the coffin.
ROT 13 Spoiler complaint:
Gurer'f rira n fvzvyne vffhr va gur cragntenz frperg va nepnahz3, orybj gur EY, jurer lbh pnaabg trg bhg bs gur cbby (b qvq V zvff fbzrguvat?) nsgre pbyyrpgvat gur frperg, juvpu vf rzcgl naljnl. Nyfb, gurer'f n frperg qbbe va gurer gung vf fhccbfrq gb or xvyyrq gung vf rira npgvingrq ol gur znva cragntenz ohggba naq pna or irel pbashfvat...
So, while this is surely a stand out pack, it still feels unfinished and unrefined in places(not in Pulsar's, even though he seems to think differently). Maybe holding it back a coupla weeks more wouldn't have hurt, after all...
Going back to find last 2 secrets in Arcanum4 and then... Arcanum5 Nightmare!!! Brrr... me shivers!
Forgot.
#55 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/09 12:23:32
The swapping models bug can be overridden by trial and error, restart the game, executable or the whole system. Worked for me...
Spoilers
#56 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2011/05/09 13:15:52
Slightly confused having just beat it. So I took on the 5 wizards which was a pretty awesome battle. Then i'm going upwards getting more weapons and powerups, then a machine comes down which I shoot once, door opens and it's the end. Was there a big end monster that failed to spawn??? I didn't think the wizards were actually too difficult, especially if you have full cells.
Anywho, awesome pack! Didn't really care much abotu the rain and darkness in the first map - it's over pretty quickly. Love seeing blue theme awesomeness. I'd comment more but I've gotta get up in 4 hours lol
Jakub's Poin Of View
#57 posted by jakub [193.179.216.60] on 2011/05/09 14:39:04
thanks to all involved in this pack. i'm still somewhere in the middle so it's too soon for final conclusion, but it's good so far. my only complain goes to the first level. don't get me wrong, but this level is horrible. i'm not talking about gameplay. i managed it through the zombie battle - it wasn't enjoyable, but i can live with that - and continued to the basement section when brutal fps drops begun. my pc is old, but still i'm able play most of the q1 stuff with darkplaces without much problem; even big maps like day of the lords or menkalinan.
-
but this one... i don't get it. even though this level is quite small, it became absolutely unplayable after i entered the "celar" section. i tried different engines - fitzquake/directq - and it improved situation only slightly. i have fps 80 (directq) one moment and 2 fps a second later. eventually, i used cheats to get to the second level in which fps is fine. first level seems to me somehow broken.... it behaves like fast-vised only.
-
diferent note:
music is annoying (can be deleted)
rain is ugly (i wish it could be deleted)
from the second level onward it's pure gold.
-
jakub
#58 posted by ChrisCtan [95.149.95.48] on 2011/05/09 17:47:56
On Fitzquake when I enter the first level I just get this error :
numgltextures == MAX_GLTEXTURES
Ok, sorry if I'm an idiot but how do I solve that?
Errr.
#59 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/09 18:14:07
Reduce the number of GLTExtures obviously.
N0000b.
And More.
#60 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/09 18:58:07
Map 4 was mostly excellent. The main room was probably the most epic seen in a Quake map for complexity and gameplay. I found some texture combinations a bit rich. Exit room was cool but a bit detached. In the main room I managed to curve jump from the top of the spiral stairs to the big platforms opposite and did a lot that when, then fell off and couldn't repeat the jump lol. Good gameplay as usual.
Map 5, the lower bit was awesome, one of the evile-ist bits of Quake I've seen in a long time. Spot on fucked-upness. I actually - shock horror - really liked the red spawn. Possibly because they were changed for a purpose and not just show off "Omg we can change a skin colour so it looks shite and have nothing to do with Quake". These actually worked. Especially when I stood on an upper ledge and gibs kept raining down and I kept panicking thinking they were Spawn dropping on me. The rest of the map was good but not as effective atmospherically, I wish the two sections had been reversed for impact. I god-moded the final battle cos it was going to bore me, but it didn't seem too appallingly cheesy.
The wand was still cool despite model still being teh ghey. In particular running into a Vore on a narrow ledge and simply kicking it off with full charge, muchos fun.
Nitin if you think these maps aren't dark, your settings must be fucked and default Quake maps must look fullbright to you.
#61 posted by ChrisCtan [95.149.95.48] on 2011/05/09 19:36:27
Sorry I dont speak the elite nerd-language. I'm just a casual player that comes here once in a while to check out new levels for my favourite game occasionally - and rather than insulting me why not explain how to actually reduce them instead of pulling a tamtrum because not everyone knows Quake's command lines/code. I'd take it Teaching wouldnt be your choice of dayjob huh? ;)
ChrisCtan
#62 posted by gb [46.142.7.21] on 2011/05/09 20:14:26
Well spoken. Indeed, most people here aren't teachers. The tone can get pretty rough. Ignore it, since rebelling will just waste energy, trust me I know.
Shambler doesn't get the opportunity to say "n00b" on this forum often, so he jumps at the chance.
#63 posted by mh [78.152.233.151] on 2011/05/09 20:21:00
first level seems to me somehow broken.... it behaves like fast-vised only.
Not vised at all actually. :(
#64 posted by jakub [89.176.218.117] on 2011/05/09 20:25:44
to mh: you are serious? :-)
Not Vised At All Actually. :(
#65 posted by Zwiffle [66.170.5.18] on 2011/05/09 20:27:33
The first level was awful - constant slowdowns even in fairly small rooms ruined the gameplay and atmosphere. I don't even care about the crummy music or the rain, but the slowdowns hurt it :(
#61, #62
#66 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/05/09 20:33:10
I thought it was obvious that post couldn't possibly be a serious insult?
#67 posted by mh [78.152.233.151] on 2011/05/09 20:33:54
to mh: you are serious? :-)
Quite serious. I've just run it under a debugger in Bengt Jardrups Engine, Fitz and DirectQ and none of them pick up visdata; l->filelen = 0 in Mod_LoadVisibility.
Also checked the leaf visibility offsets in Mod_LoadLeafs and they're all 0 or -1. Definitely not vised at all.
Hmm
#68 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/09 20:44:17
that's bizarre, if it isn't then that's a mixup/fuckup and the vised version must be sitting on my hard drive a few provinces away. Oh well, seems like people would generally rather skip the first map anyway.
Hmmmm
#69 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/09 21:16:40
This pack. OK, looks good. But if I had paid for this I would be really pissed off with it. The main reason is this:
I play the mod from the map arcstart. The start map is fine. Found the mightmare entrance no problem.
I enter the first map. (SPOILER) I spawn with the axe ready (weird?) in an area surrounded by dogs. Killing the dogs I notice that there are zombies (but i have no weapon to kill the zombies?!?!), and a silver key door. There is a blocked hatch to the left of the door, and a hatch which sometimes opens to the right. I cant get past the silver key door, or the hatch to the left, and when i go through the hatch to the right I cant get any further than the bottom of the ramp immediately through the door. So I look around and I keep looking but there is nowhere else to go so I RAGEQUIT.
End pack.
Im sorry, but I really dont know what the hell Im supposed to do? This is terrible. I know there is a lot more to the pack than what I have seen, but it doesn't exactly engross me by not letting me get even past the first door, and not giving me any explanation.
This pack needs to be finished off and re-released IMO.
(and yes I was using the drake mod, I followed the installation and run instructions to the 't')
Ricky
#70 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/09 21:23:45
the first map starts with melee comnbat. It was released in arcdemo, and no one realy complained about having to kill the zombies and dogs with an axe then. That said, it is unconventional and quite hard, so maybe I should have tossed in a GL somewhere. Sorry you didn't enjoy it, but as others have noted, it's not representative of the other maps but was just meant as an atmospheric intro to the other maps. Feel free to skip to arcanum2.
[Kona]: the idea in the last map is that all the flesh stuff is connected, and that the wizards had this giant machine to injure/destroy the Thing Beneath if it ever got out of hand.
Uh..
#71 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 21:31:47
as you walk into the gate, it says 'kill the zombies with the axe' or something like that.
so that was your own fault? :P
kona: yeah, that's the ending. those wizard guys were controlling shub and when you kill them, the button at the top allows you to use their machine against shub. you should actually have been up there during the combat (or before hand with the ring). i'm amazed you were able to win without the items up there... i usually need the MH and deflection amulet to beat it. :o
ChrisCtan: i have no idea what the error means. shambler doesn't know either, but he was being a dick. :D
are you using fitzquake085? older versions have lower limits, which is maybe why you're getting that texture limit. or try aguirre's enhance glquake maybe.
Huh
#72 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 21:32:30
crossposted. and you said you weren't gonna be here. ;)
About Vis
#73 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 21:36:16
i checked and the originals you gave me (before i edited entities) for arc1, 4 and 5 aren't vised dude. :x
ChrisCtan
#74 posted by Spirit [80.171.1.71] on 2011/05/09 21:37:19
Make sure you run the latest Fitzquake. Or use Quakespasm instead. Hopefully that should fix it!
Quad Posting
#75 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/09 21:37:35
but in my defense, i have a very fast machine and never noticed they weren't vised, so i'm not really blaming you. i should have checked myself with r_showtris, but performance was fine for me and it never even occured to me to check.
so you can kind of blame me too.
#76 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/09 21:59:52
I've experienced no slowdowns on my ati 3670 with Aguirre's plus -nomtex
Hmm
#77 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/09 22:03:05
that seems pretty much impossible, I can't imagine how that could happen, fuck. In a month when I'm back I'll find the vised ones if anyone still cares I guess.
Quakespasm/RMQ Engine runs way faster than Fitz for me for some reason.
OK - No Problem - I Saw That This Time
#78 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/09 22:05:45
I had another go at arcanum1 and a dab arcanum2.
Had more fun this time (knowing that i can kill the Zombies with the axe) - I think i saw the centerprint last time but i was too busy escaping the dogs to really notice it.
Arcanum1 is a cool map, i like the music as well - reminds me of Tangerine Dream :) Makes the whole thing seem kubrikesque. The lighting isn't really too dark either, it's just a dark map, set on a dark night - moody atmosphere.
I had problems with killing the Wizards on skill 2, but i did notice that the Wizards have very cool animations, their skins seemed a bit bright (maybe put dirt and blood all over them like everything else in Quake) but overall they are cool. The spiders are also very well animated. I like the way that when you kill a spider it lights the surrounding area green for the rest of eternity. Bit strange, but it cuts through the darkness and adds to the strangeness vibe.
Arcanum2 - started to get into this but I died not too far in, so i will try again later. M only criticism would be the fullbright pixels in Kell's floor texture. Didn't anyone else notice that?!?!
Having fun with this now though, and that is the main thing.
Wow Arcanum.. I Was Waiting For That !
#79 posted by Delor [151.66.163.45] on 2011/05/09 22:40:24
..I've enjoyed the demo and I liked that outdoor dog-infested intro.. trees weren't so nice though.
I love outdoor setting so every effort is appreciated :)
My mod is 90% all outdoor
-Where did u get that angel statue in screenshots ? Or you did it yourself ?
-Maybe Drake mod is what I'm lookin for..
but does it support camera/cutscenes, actors, mp3, trigger sounds, push-objects, ..?
Tronyn, YOU FUCKING CUNT!!!
#80 posted by angry negke [89.204.137.226] on 2011/05/10 00:11:17
It's amazing really. You always make epic levels with unique ideas and themes and even created a de facto trademark map style, yet at the same time there's this blatant disregard for common sense tech quality prevalent to varying degrees in all your releases which manages to infuriate me to no end...
I'm not even talking about my regular peeves. The performance in many of these maps is so abysmal because they are FUCKING UNVISED!!!! (1, 4, 5). Is this a fucking joke?? I demand it to be fixed! Also, the maps don't seem to have be compiled with light -extra, or at least -extra2 or 4, since there are many obvious jagged shadows. What fucking gives????
This made me angry because it kind of derailed an otherwise awesome episode.
I played this on a different computer and the low frame rate spoiled the otherwise excellent maps for me. As a matter of fact, the first map put me in an angry and overly critical mood for it seemed it didn't use any of the feedback from the demo. Being drunk while playing only made it worse.
Chose skill 2 and got my ass kicked like I asked for (very hard and died many times). Considered switching to skill 1 after the second map, but eventually didn't for whatever reason. Ammo balance was okay, but I would have wished for more health in places.
The low-supply zombie gibbing in the first level was shit, but from then on it got better. I didn't mind the trees and the rain too much, even though they are obviously VERY retro. The warlocks/hordes made for some solid trouble and frustration, too. The boss battle was surprisingly beatable compared to earlier fights. I didn't even need the items on the upper floors (and only realized there were some after the fight was over).
I lov the ikblue mix themes, especially ikblue+flesh was great. And the epic architecture/setpieces, as usual - at times it reminded me of modern Doom maps (large details areas with chaigun snipers).
First run demos: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SN6CN... with lots of dying and ranting (to be watched with a pinch of salt).
I'll have to play the map again on Normal on my home machine. THE PROPERLY-COMPILED ONES, THAT IS!
Fucking Disclaimer
#81 posted by negke [89.204.153.129] on 2011/05/10 00:29:20
The reason this got me so on the edge is 70% because, while I really appreciate your stuff and admire his output, such errors are totally unnecessary, especially considering your experience; and 30% because the kid discovered his new and anticipated toy was broken when unpacked it.
Hey Neg
#82 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 00:30:58
did you notice? no items fall out of the map!
No Disclaimer Required Negke
#83 posted by Tronyn [24.85.228.148] on 2011/05/10 00:46:50
alright so it wasn't nearly as done as I thought. sorry, April was a panic for many reasons & I must have somehow mixed up files. I'll put out a revised version of the episode (maybe finish the other couple unfinished maps) for QEXPO, alongside Unforgiven.
#84 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 01:02:08
yeah, that'd be awesome. the techish one (arc7 i believe?) is really awesome looking.
#85 posted by negke [89.204.153.165] on 2011/05/10 01:06:22
necros: Re-check arcanum3, then. And all maps have monsters in walls. But that's not the problem here.
Tronyn: No worries. Despite the rant, I did enjoy the release after all. Like surfing on a partially polluted shore - fun ride but not without splashes of bile. BUT DON'T YOU DARE MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES WITH UNFORGIVEN!!!!! ;)
#86 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 01:09:36
i see no falling out items in arc3? i fixed them all, afaik.
i intentionally left the monsters in wall for 2 reasons, i never noticed any cases where monsters were stuck in bad places and there's sometimes good reasons to stick the into walls, so that they don't move and you can use them as snipers.
I'm Going To Vis 'em
#87 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/10 02:50:34
As long as it doesn't take too damn long. Wvis.exe -level 4 -threads 8 and clight.exe -extra4 -threads 8 should be good right? I have a core i7 with 4 physical cores that are all hyperthreaded. clight.exe is mh's bengt jardup's light.exe with colour support (i think :p).
#88 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/05/10 02:53:39
I vised one of them that took most of February iirc. It was the small one.
#89 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 02:56:43
don't need to light them. just extract a prt file with bspinfo and then run wvis.
Heh - I Had A Go Before (wanted To Stretch My New CPU)
#90 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/10 03:13:38
I stopped it after a few minutes because I could see it was going to take hours. That was arcanum1. These maps are big and open. Not vis-friendly. Im using 4 threads at 5Ghz per thread!
Yeah
#91 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/05/10 03:28:24
His doesn't look like it's going to work out. Too much heat from the laptop also. :p
Shambler
#92 posted by nitin [203.202.43.53] on 2011/05/10 04:23:19
or I just have a properly calibrated displayu that I use with lights off for quake maps :)
Revised Version
#93 posted by jakub [193.179.216.60] on 2011/05/10 07:48:05
tronyn, thanks for reply. i'm looking forward to the new patched version. i don't like the first level and i would suggest that you leave it out, but the rest is incredible. i generated the lit files for arcanum with mhcolour and i really like it. some might say it looks quite funky... but quake doesn't have to be black/grey only.
-
jakub
Leave First Level In
#94 posted by nitin [203.202.43.53] on 2011/05/10 07:52:01
just fix what's there and add more maps if they fit in (if they dont, release them spearately).
Hardcore Players
#95 posted by dis [149.144.9.74] on 2011/05/10 09:33:27
Anyone tried the Hell skill level yet?
Hell... NO!
#96 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/10 09:52:31
Just when I thought I was done with this thing!!!!
Anyways, a little more rant.
Did not mention how much I like the WAND. It's the Quake equivalent of the Painkiller: a multi purpose weapon, jump booster, potentially lethal, if you're out of ammo but you have cover. WONDERFUL.
All maps seem to run perfectly on my 2004 rig, even without vising, on all skill levels...
A few more nits: a coupla centerprints keep appearing when passing through. Most notably the message about the magicians in last room, but there are more that I don't remember right now.
Also, can anyone (Tronyn?) confirm what I said in my spoiler about an empty secret with no way out? Am I missing something?
And last. Don't get me wrong, I like this a whole lot!
On to hell.
Empty Secret With No Exit
#97 posted by ericw [161.184.107.71] on 2011/05/10 10:05:55
I hit that too - in a well in map 3 or 4? I figured it was a bug.
Oh boy, there's a hell difficulty? I've only played skill 0 so far :0
I Always Feel Bad After Stomping Tronyn Like That...
#98 posted by negke [89.204.153.229] on 2011/05/10 10:10:49
jt_: Please do light them while you're at it. It doesn't take long. I just did a quick -extra4 run (with fade gate 1 to speed it up) and the shadows looked much better. Though I foolishly overwrote the original maps and couldn't compare. The jagged ones were only really noticable on the ceilings iirc.
necros: So it's all intentional now? Hmmmm.. Fair enough, though I did notice at least one ogre that was stuck but (imo) wasn't supposed to. Two items fall out in arc3 on skill 2: a box of rockets at -448 1544 38 and a box of spikes at -528 1544 38.
In arcanum5 the doors "wtfvore" and "wtfvore1" have an unmatched target "lightning".
There're also invalid fields in worldspawn (mapversion, wadversion, 0.85). And a note to anyone who intents to use the .map sources: Be sure to delete the multiple worldspawn entries in some of them!
A drop-in-the-ocean hotfix for people who are affected by novis slowdown:
Download visbjp.zip and extract bspinfo.exe and vis.exe to the same folder as the maps. Then run bspinfo -prt arcanum1 and vis -fast arcanum1; do the same with arcanum4 and arcanum5. This will not make the maps super-playable, but the polycount will be a bit lower in some areas which should make for a slight increase in fps.
Haven't checked out the other two maps, were there precompiled versions in the source zip?
3.
#99 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/10 10:15:01
I tried to open the source in an editor to check things, and it looks as THERE ARE items in the pool(25 health, rockets, cells).
So, these fail to spawn? Or did an unfinished version of this map creep in?
I Guess These Are Falling Out?
#100 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/10 10:17:27
Yes, there are precompiled versions in the sources pack.
Items In The Pool
#101 posted by jakub [193.179.216.60] on 2011/05/10 10:26:50
i'm not sure which pool exactly you have in mind, but i encountered one pool with this set of items in arcanum3 (not sure, i'll check when i get home) and all the items were knee deep stuck in a bottom of this pool/well. i had to noclip to pick these up (darkplaces).
-
jakub
..Vis Or Not Vis
#102 posted by Delor [151.66.167.77] on 2011/05/10 12:06:42
..Let's say rough: many people (I for sure) hate Vising their maps simply because is boring, time consuming and liable to errors.
so as a(relatively) new mapper I ask you: IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO FULL-VIS EVERY MAP ?
replies needed :)
Yes
#103 posted by Ankh [80.239.242.157] on 2011/05/10 12:15:28
applies to 95 % of maps
#104 posted by [Kona] [202.124.75.109] on 2011/05/10 13:26:20
Ooooh, yeah I think I went into the final wizard room with invisibility, but I assumed that was going to be the final battle and didn't realise you were supposed to run right past them upstairs. I don't search around much - found maybe 4 secrets in the entire pack. So instead I fired a rocket into the toughest, then madly strafed around the room until they were all dead. Couldn't have done it without full lg and ra though. But shit, going upstairs would have been easier!!!
The battle I really liked was those 3 big ogre things that run fucking fast towards you. Basically double-sg only enemies. They were really cool!
The 1st map I didn't like much either. The underground looked good enough, but all the annoying zombies didn't enhance gameplay. And you need to have put the chainsaw in, not a triple-hit-gibbing-axe.
2nd map was great, but got confusing sometimes. After the bridge extended to the sk, I couldn't see how I was supposed to get back up without backtracking over a large amount. Some good fights though.
3rd level was really good, definitely my favourite. battles were tough and epic as well. The textures all looked good.
4th level was good, but it seemed like a huge room filled with lots of different levels and stairs, etc. Which weakened it. Moving into the final area was good though and improved it. The ogres and vores scattered on distant ledges were just a pain in the ass.
5th level was good. The constant noise from the pool was annoying, but apart from that a good final level. Apart from the epic wizard fight it was all pretty easy though.
Anyway great pack! Enemies were all good. The only one I didn't like so much was the super bastard hell knight that blocks all your weapons expect dsg and lg, and fires those red cunt projectiles at you. That's a quickload nightmare taking him on unless you have lots of space for 1-direction-only strafing (which seems to be his only weakness).
Delor
#105 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 16:15:09
It's good practice to fullvis your stuff for the final release. Find someone with Wvis and a fast machine and ask them to do it for you.
What would be even more awesome is a distributed vis system like Vis@home... į la distcc, only for vis.
#106 posted by mh [137.191.242.106] on 2011/05/10 16:37:26
What would be even more awesome is a distributed vis system like Vis@home... į la distcc, only for vis.
Now that would be an awesome idea!
Ideas Are My Job
#107 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 17:58:21
#108 posted by Spirit [80.171.52.146] on 2011/05/10 18:14:13
ZHLT netvis does it.
Also the idea is ancient, see http://www.celephais.net/board/vie...
I doubt it would be too reasonable to make this. We got multi-threaded VIS just recently.
MH recently posted somewhere about how a well written modern engine can even be faster with unvised data if I recall correctly.
#109 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/10 18:15:42
> ZHLT netvis does it.
link?
#110 posted by mh [137.191.242.106] on 2011/05/10 18:45:45
Unvised is something I might test sometime; it's a tradeoff though. The theory is that you can put the entire world into a big static vertex buffer and draw it without having to send any data to the GPU. Use shaders for water and sky and there is absolutely no need to modify vertexes at run time.
The tradeoff of course is that you'll have extra overdraw, but if bandwidth savings can more than compensate for it then you're in business.
Vis
#111 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/10 19:13:35
Always vis a map. Or DIE!!!!
Drawing Everything In Large VBO
#112 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.188.171] on 2011/05/10 19:23:37
it's not a problem even for large maps, at least on semi-recent hardware. Overdraw is not so much of a problem as bandwidth usually is (for 3D accelerator cards).
Whooo!
#113 posted by Hrimfaxi [89.150.173.209] on 2011/05/10 19:58:15
I'm glad I stayed to play more maps than the first one. The first map was pretty annoying in my opinion.
But the second map!!! Wow! This is a big very amazing map, Good stuff everywere, Good brushwork and texture use and a nice layout! Loved it (but not the wizards!)
I can see from the other comments that the good stuff continues!
Looking forward to play the next maps!
Thank you for making this pack folks!
Hehe
#114 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 20:24:36
maybe i should have added an additional note in the OP: 'if you hate the first map, just skip to arc2!' :P
#115 posted by mh [109.79.190.155] on 2011/05/10 21:44:50
it's not a problem even for large maps, at least on semi-recent hardware. Overdraw is not so much of a problem as bandwidth usually is (for 3D accelerator cards).
My thoughts exactly. Early Z and a few other things can work wonders for overdraw. It's not an alternative to fullvis, and will still run slower than fullvis (not least because you still need to exercise your vertex shader in order to get early Z), but at the least it should (could!) eliminate a lot of the badness from no vis. All purely theoretical and not to mention hardware dependent, of course.
Not Sure
#116 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.188.171] on 2011/05/10 22:10:10
What you mean by early Z. But anyway, I have implemented a VBO renderer that can render for example Vondurs AC without ever looking at the BSP (it loads the map file). It's pretty fast and still has a lot of potential for optimization.
#117 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 22:14:34
that's pretty wild, loading it directly from the map file.
perhaps some stress testing with these arcanum maps? :P
Would Love To Try
#118 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.188.171] on 2011/05/10 22:39:57
but the map files are in WC format.
#119 posted by Trinca [89.154.58.204] on 2011/05/10 22:52:28
I guess I will play this maps for the next month... love then so much... I'm keeping first demos even when I died in 30 monters or so... anyone want then?
full reply after play then all
But must thanks you guys a lot, this is something I will never make... the quality, layout and bushwork is top is the kind of stuff few guys born for it!
I didn't :)
#120 posted by mh [109.79.190.155] on 2011/05/10 22:58:33
Early Z means that the GPU can reject polygons based on depth before it gets to the fragment shader stage; hardware that doesn't support early Z can only reject after the fragment shader. No overdraw, the only overhead is in the vertex shader and primitive assembly, all good stuff. I believe that if you've got hardware T&L then you've also got early Z.
Loading from the map file would be great; you get no surface subdivision so there's none of that horrible heavy tesselation that Quake maps have, and that is a huge cause of slowdown. I believe HL2 stores the original map brushes in the BSP for exactly this reason, and it's something I'd be very in favour of if the community ever did get around to discussing proposals for a replacement BSP format.
Another neat trick - you can turn off backface culling for the world and all brush models. Quake backface culls in the engine anyway, so it's a completely unnecessary test for the GPU. Very small performance gain.
So
#121 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.188.171] on 2011/05/10 23:04:47
Can someone with access to Hammer convert those arcanum sources to standard map format? Without the extended rotation shiznit?
#122 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/10 23:52:27
i couldn't load them in 1.6, so i guess it's the hl2 hammer?
I Liked Map 4 The Best...
#123 posted by generic [67.233.206.144] on 2011/05/11 00:56:52
Especially when you land on the giant angel statues and they break ;)
#124 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/11 01:28:36
that was a nice touch. i was pretty surprised when it happened cause i was really focused on trying to make the jump from the spiral stairs to the platforms across the room. :P
#125 posted by gb [46.142.33.229] on 2011/05/11 03:16:26
> if the community ever did get around to discussing proposals for a replacement BSP format.
It will.
Aha
#126 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.94] on 2011/05/11 09:44:23
Read a bit about the 220 map format, and if I understand correctly, you can't really convert it to standard map format without loss of information. The texture axes stored in the map file cannot be reproduced in Quake because Quake uses a combination of two axes of the world coordinate system for the textures (hence the limits to texture rotation lock in standard Quake). Or do the extended compilers that come with the Quake adapter for WC 3.3 do some extra magic here?
Why Were They Saved With Hammer Anyway?
#127 posted by negke [89.204.153.233] on 2011/05/11 09:53:30
WC can export to .map. Are there differences between the Arcanum .rmf and the .map sources apart from the junk Hammer inserts? Which format corresponds to the bsps?
ReRelease?
#128 posted by Chip [79.117.93.246] on 2011/05/11 11:09:17
"that seems pretty much impossible, I can't imagine how that could happen, fuck. In a month when I'm back I'll find the vised ones if anyone still cares I guess."
ReRelease it for QuakeExpo :D
#129 posted by Spirit [80.171.143.116] on 2011/05/11 11:33:59
arc5: xvyyrq fbzr mbzovrf naq fpentf, "1 zber gb tb" ohg gurer vf abguvat ncneg sebz Fuhool (jub V'ir gevrq gb xvyy). Jung abj?
Keep Hunting.
#130 posted by the silent [80.17.142.66] on 2011/05/11 11:59:46
If you don't find anything, there may be a spawning issue.
Rmf/map
#131 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/11 16:20:52
You make the map in .rmf, then you export it to .map, then you compile the .map using txqbsp or any other compiler which has support for valve 220 texture format. If you want to edit the source you have to edit it in .rmf (because if you load the .map file into an editor many of the textures will become mis-aligned. But if you just want to re-compile then you should be able to just use the .map files included in to source.
Aha
#132 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/11 16:34:19
That's cool, so the textures do not get misaligned if you compile the map with a compatible compiler, then play in Quake? In other words, no oddly stretched textures on faces that are not on the coordinate planes anymore?
#133 posted by gb [46.142.40.247] on 2011/05/11 18:14:58
tbh Valve 220 format needs to die, it causes unnecessary problems with the workflow when cooperating / teamworking etc.
Just my opinion. Quake is messy enough already.
Hmm
#134 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/11 18:32:05
I'm still wondering whether it actually fixes the texture alignment / stretching problems in Quake or not.
Er
#135 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/11 19:14:36
Without it texture lock wouldn't work and it would take a lot longer for (me) to make maps.
EVEN Longer
#136 posted by negke [89.204.137.196] on 2011/05/11 19:28:09
Agree
#137 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/05/11 19:50:43
about the doomishness that Negke noted - I felt that way too. It was a good feeling.
Also, though I found it initially frustrating, I really like the 1st map, and I feel like it's getting weirdly picked apart. I mean, look at that second screenshot - I'd be proud if I had made that area. And the part with the blood was awesome!
Other than being way to hard in the beginning, I feel like Arc1 is a very nice 'little' map.
Ricky
#138 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/11 21:54:13
You mean texture lock would not work without Valve 220, right? Just to make that clear. So the texture coordinates that compilers (which understand Valve 220) generate using the texture axes stored in a 220 map file are perfectly fine for stock Quake?
I'm asking because (TADA) I'm working on an level editor for OS X and I'm wondering whether I should support Valve 220. And if the above is true, it looks as if I should.
#139 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/11 22:05:56
from my brief time working in HL2, i recall the hammer 3.3 texture alignment was more accurate in some ways. you could rotate a face by strange angles (3, 86) etc, and the textures would never move. there were also texture alignment helpers that were not present in quake editors. for example, you could align a texture across multiple faces that were not on parallel planes.
otoh, this could just be down to poor coding on quake editors? i have no idea how tex alignment works but it seemed like the quaternion thing gave extra info that helped do complex tex alignment.
Dunno
#140 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/11 23:39:04
It may be possible in standard Quake map format, I'll have to investigate, but my feeling says it isn't.
And there are no quaternions in 220. The map format allows you (or the editor) to specify arbitrare texture axes. In standard Quake, it always uses the two coordinate axes that have the largest angle to the face normal. Textures are then parallel projected onto the faces, which also leads to the skewed textures you see on faces that are not parallel to the coordinate planes.
And This Is Also
#141 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/11 23:40:48
what standard QBSP does. It generates texture coordinates from that, so it might be possible that extended compilers allow proper texture application without a change to the engine. This alone would be a big improvement.
#142 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/11 23:45:59
And there are no quaternions in 220
oh ok, i just saw [0 0 1 0] in the .map file and assumed it was that.
Yeah
#143 posted by SleepwalkR [130.149.148.83] on 2011/05/12 00:05:56
So did I at first, but it's the offset plus the coordinate axis for X / Y.
I Have To Be Honest
#144 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/12 01:54:14
I dont really know the inner workings of it, or whether or not it is possible to make a completely accurate texture lock without it, I just know that the texture lock in Worldcraft 3.3 and 3.5 works better than any other i've used. But if you made an editor which could load a '220 map and than save it into a standard .map format so that you could then load that .map file into any other editor - that would be very useful :)
That Does Not Seem To Be Possible
#145 posted by SleepwalkR [85.178.190.94] on 2011/05/12 06:42:06
The map would look different after conversion. The textures would be skewed. If that would not be a problem, you can simply do the conversion by hand by converting "[o x y z]" to "o" I think.
Astounding...
#146 posted by Orl [68.34.165.196] on 2011/05/12 16:11:29
...doesn't even begin to describe this map pack. While the first map may have been the weakest, it was still fun and clever. The rain looked a bit odd yes, but it convinced me it was rain and I just went with it. But what I liked most about the arc1 was its haunting atmosphere. The music wasn't a bother to me either, it added to the creepiness.
The next four maps, as I said, astounding. The gameplay, the lighting, the brushwork, the textures, everything was stupendous. Its hard to, because of the fast run and gun gameplay, but you really have to stop and admire all the details and interconnectivity of the maps. Some of the best I've ever seen in Quake.
This pack is no doubt a perfect 10 in my book. Congrats on a job well done :)
Map 1
#147 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/12 22:00:12
Cool brushwork and layout (except those trees). Much too cramped in some places.
I turned the volume down all the way because the music was just too nihilistic to me and there was no way to switch it off ingame. Then I turned the brightness all the way up. That's when I noticed the cool brushwork. I also turned on godmode - on easy :-/
If you make it mandatory to "kill all monsters" in order to proceed, please tell the player so.
If the player presses a button, please tell them what that button did.
The exit was sort of hidden.
-> Too dark, Easy too hard, zombies/axe sucked, music not optional, not always clear where to go next / what to do next.
-> Nice brushwork and layout. Could have been highlighted better by more light.
Streams of blood: A real blood sacrifice is pretty unspectacular compared to this. :-^
-> Drake: Didn't like ported Hexen 2 monsters (use new skins at least). Found the staff a little goofy. Shotgun could have a new sound instead of what people are used to as the SSG sound (it's confusing). Axe should instagib zombies. Beheading was cool.
#148 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/12 22:06:19
Also, it would have been good to combine the start map and the first proper map of the pack, to avoid the loading screen in between. A start map only really makes sense when you have different branches.
#149 posted by negke [89.204.153.167] on 2011/05/12 22:23:04
The music can be turned of with impulse 117. I agree the new shotgun sounds are bad (ssg sounds weak).
Since the release is going to be updated with the fullvised maps, maybe a few other changes could be made as well? Eg. counter message in arc1, a megahealth for the zombies on all difficulty levels, maybe even monsterjump them off the coffins; NO_INTERMISSION on the arcstart changelevel! And whatever else was mentioned in this thread..
Gb
#150 posted by negke [89.204.153.167] on 2011/05/12 22:25:09
No, a start map also makes sense if you can select the difficulty. That's the sole purpose.
#151 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/12 22:51:30
That can easily be done inside the first map of a pack, no?
#152 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/12 22:52:12
yeah, but that won't spawn/despawn monsters...
so you still need a start map.
#153 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/12 22:55:17
> The music can be turned of with impulse 117
I'm not reading the readme halfway through a map. There are maps which provide buttons for that purpose, which is a good way to do it without breaking the immersion.
#154 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/12 22:58:46
> yeah, but that won't spawn/despawn monsters... so you still need a start map.
There must be a way to do that, if you're using QC anyway?
#155 posted by Trinca [89.154.57.245] on 2011/05/12 23:11:04
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
first runs!
#156 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/12 23:28:14
no. the skill level entity inhibition is done by the engine, before they ever get to qc.
Separate Start Maps Are Good
#157 posted by ericw [161.184.107.71] on 2011/05/12 23:39:42
I like how they appear to be in the game world, but are a contrivance for choosing your difficulty level. When you step through the exit teleporter, you get the feeling that you're /really/ entering Quake. (also, if dying in e1m1 returned you to skill selection, I think it would break immersion.)
I Dont Mind Start Maps
#158 posted by RickyT23 [94.13.59.177] on 2011/05/12 23:45:24
Its very 'Quake' - I like Guncotton by Kona as a prime example :)
#159 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/13 00:52:38
Setting all monsters to SPAWNED on all skill levels, then pointing the skill selection triggers at the relevant monsters/entities to activate the ones wanted.
> if dying in e1m1 returned you to skill selection, I think it would break immersion.
Correct, but with checkpoint triggers that'll never happen.
Yeah
#160 posted by ijed [190.22.38.169] on 2011/05/13 02:38:00
But just about every skill dependant activation check is done on map load.
A groundbreaking feature of HL1 (at least in thought, if not implementation) was the ability to change skills whilst playing.
Granted it just modified the damage / health tables, but it was the germ of modifying map content on the fly that led to ideas like L4D.
Which is of itself only a proof of concept. I can see such dynamic difficulty features becoming a standard.
#161 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/13 04:19:49
It would be much better to have it engine side, yeah. My example is kludgy, even if you combine that with waiting triggers etc.
#162 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/05/13 04:36:19
ignoring whether it is possible or not, it seems kind of ill-fitting to try to deny such a classic quake staple in this very old schoolesque map pack. I do think the no_intermission would work well there though, as in the original Quake.
#163 posted by gb [46.142.55.206] on 2011/05/13 04:41:23
The loading screen sort of bothered me, that's all. I see your point.
Oops...
#164 posted by distrans [149.144.9.74] on 2011/05/13 07:34:02
I completely forgot about the no_intermission option on the changelevel. Would've made the transition effect so much smoother. Ah well, if a patch is forthcoming it's the sort of thing that can be easily changed.
Start Maps.
#165 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/13 11:11:35
Rock. This was a stylish one.
#166 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/05/13 17:24:47
I enjoyed the Arcanum demo immensely when it came out, and I don't exactly like how the rest of the pack deviates from it. The first map was id sized, had plenty of small arms play, and the 'zer meets nsoe' theme was badass.
However amazing looking Pulsar's (mistaken for Tronyn's in the demos, sorry about that) map was, it was another huge, 150+ monsters, Knave-and-only-Knave affair. I liked it a lot at first, but eventually I got tired, as towards the end the map kept shoving me into a climax after a climax, while my health was low (skill 1), and my patience even lower. So I ended up godmoding my way through map 2, and felt numb when I saw a Shambler and 200+ monsters right at the start at map 3.
My 10 years old self might have been thrilled by the "EVIL MEGA SHOWDOWN waiting every next corner!!!" approach, but I've seriously grown out of it.
Sorry.
Five skill1 demos: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/...
Map 2
#167 posted by gb [46.142.28.77] on 2011/05/13 23:18:05
+ Nice brushwork
+ Size
+ some creative stuff
- too many buttons
- too much backtracking
- confusing layout
- eternally respawning monsters / sea of monsters
- randomly being knocked into void/off the magic bridge
- lots of areas looked the same (knave) except the end
- Easy too hard, as usual
Mixed feelings about this one. The brushwork was good, but the gameplay, although good fighting in some parts, got predictable and uncreative eventually (especially monster placement/annoying respawning/backtracking/getting lost). It felt like work. Hey, monster closets.
There were some traps and a platforming passage, but none of them overly creative. This stuff drowned in the sea of monsters as well.
It looked nice and the environment was competently done, no question. Gameplay not my cup of tea.
Alternate Download
#168 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/05/14 21:10:16
Arcanum (18mb)
Arcanum Sources(8mb)
shots:
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
http://necros.slipgateconstruct.co...
#169 posted by Sevenstrings [122.108.109.37] on 2011/05/15 05:02:38
Hi there, my first post on this board. Been lurking this board for a little while, after discovered Quaddicted a little while ago.
Anyway, enough about me lol.
Surprised to see so much hate on the first map.
if you had ever played the demo, you'd see the gameplay is much more balanced this time around in the full release.
I remember the ladder didn't even work properly on the demo, you literally had to jump up each step one at a time, which was frustrating when you wanted to get up to get away from monsters.
A lot easier to just easily climb up it this time around.
The map has some beautiful architecture too IMHO and personally I love the rain and thunderstorm going on.
Mind you, I did really enjoy the demo when it came out too, was just blown away by how it looked.
The rest of the pack was fantastic. I'd like to be able to complain about the whole not knowing where to go next problem I sometimes encountered, but honestly that happens with almost all new maps I play, and I'm sure it probably happened when I played the original Id1 levels all the way back in 1996 when I was 7-8 years old, so it's no big deal. If anything part of that challenge is figuring out that puzzle.
Honestly don't really understand a lot of the little technical details, as I've never been a mapper myself, so I'll just leave my post at this haha.
#170 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/15 09:55:28
Why is this a mod when dry sorrow and sludge are maps?
#171 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/05/15 11:42:14
How about we discuss the release itself, and not whatever Spirit decides to do about it?
Novel, I know.
#172 posted by Spirit [82.113.106.195] on 2011/05/15 12:41:04
Those were added before the RemakeQuake conflict. I would add it because it does feel vanilla enough for me but I am afraid it would just inflict new flames by people who do not understand my criteria. I know that I did not manage to present it well but I do not know how to.
Please read http://www.quaddicted.com/quaddict... and never say "but X is there!" again.
And since I am posting:
I am very divided about it. parts were very hard and felt unfair to me (skill 1). knave map was a maze. later maps were constant "press a button, find out what it did". some amazing visuals. got the model mixture bug on 4th map, very unpleasant, could not fix it, god moded. rage quit final fight. fighting was really not my piece of cake. z aware ogres. suck as do wide open places. I don't like hordes. I don't like changed weapons. I am Mr negative feedback.
#173 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/05/15 18:51:03
Well I saw at least one person ask about the full version of arcanum on the quaddicted arcdemo page, so it might be confusing for someone who just visits quaddicted but not func
YOY...
#174 posted by the silent [79.52.203.162] on 2011/05/15 19:16:00
1 - ...Do I seem to take damage when there's no monster around, and I keep on losing health until I pick up a medkit?
2 - ...There's no way out the blood pool secret?
3 - ...Is it empty?
4 - ...It is not possible to get 100% kills sometimes(With 100% secrets)?
Spirit...
#175 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/15 19:42:27
Stop being a gayer and fucking add it. There's enough goddamn Quake going on it to Qualify, and some badass combat too.
The Silent
#176 posted by negke [89.204.137.132] on 2011/05/15 19:48:13
In some levels there are flak ogres on distant ledges, could be them damaging you. That's part of what I meant when I mentioned Doom 2 chaingunners earlier.
The blood secret is awkward to get out of since the water surface lines up with a slope and not a straight wall. But it is possible. Dive down again and try to torpedo out. It's not empty. Unless you did not refer to the one in fourth map (or was it the fifth).
#177 posted by Zwiffle [97.87.57.94] on 2011/05/15 19:50:33
In regards to the blood pool secret in map 3, I too couldn't find a way out of it and ended up noclipping out. But what I want to know is how do I select the crossbow??? I can figure out how to select the wand, but I want to use my awesome crossbow thingie!!
Also, arcanum3 is AWESOME. Great layout, very cool to see yourself overlooking areas you've been to already, just pure awesome. Got stuck a couple times, primarily because I didn't know where the silver key door was, but the monster bread crumbs did a good job of leading me back there. Going to tackle arcanum4 later tonight I expect.
Re: 1.
#178 posted by onetruepurple [89.79.96.4] on 2011/05/15 19:51:04
One of the stupid Hexen warlocks poisoned you, and the mod has no better way of communicating that other than printing "you feel sick" to the console (which will be missed by the player most of the time).
Oh
#179 posted by negke [89.204.137.132] on 2011/05/15 20:06:09
Didn't know the warlocks do that. Makes sense in retrospect, I had quite a bit of trouble with them and always wondered why they killed me so easily. Thought they were just huge assholes with high-damage attacks.
Zwiffle: Isn't it on the same key as the LG? I only selected by mwheeling through the weapons.
Sucks that Drake doesn't have a readme.
YOY #174 (losing Health)
#180 posted by Hrimfaxi [89.150.173.209] on 2011/05/15 20:08:27
Yeah! I had the same experince. Suddenly on map1 I began to loose health every 30 sec or so.
Eventually I died for that reason!
The same thing happend on on of the later maps (map4 I think!)
Haven't read the readme so I don't know if there are some feature I'm not aware of that drains your health.
Other than that I have reached the final map (and battle I think), but have gotten the model mixup after a quick save, and I don't want to play the whole map again to avoid it. So that will be it!
After gotten though the first map the rest of the pack was greath.
All maps had fantastic brushwork and architecture, even the first map!.
My big fustration with the first map was the gameplay and what to do next when a button was pressed.
I got lost on one or two of the other maps as well but that was allright since I then had the joy to walk around an admire the details!
Thank you to the folks that participated in this experince. It was a fantastic journey and I'm looking forward to see what comes next from you all.
#181 posted by gb [46.142.11.255] on 2011/05/15 20:08:42
Who writes Tronyn's reviews for Tronyn's maps?
Shall I try writing one? Or maybe rather negke? :)
Yeah, Poisoning...
#182 posted by the silent [79.52.203.162] on 2011/05/15 21:22:47
...I had kinda figured that out, but could not pin who did the deed... Shoulda been pointed out in the readme, like the Travail people did with spiders.
The pool, I'm not talking about the one you have to dive in to open a door, but the one that appears after you opened a secret, when you dive into it, you get a message about a secret artifact that is just not there. In the source maps it contains ammo, but somehow they must've fallen out the level. And, try as I may, I could not get outta there w/o noclipping. I'm really curious to know if it's a design glitch, or, simply, I'm missing something,and the trapping is deliberate...
Thanks for the answers, anyways!
Model Mix-up
#183 posted by generic [67.233.206.144] on 2011/05/15 21:28:29
Just type 'kill' in the console and reload. I think.
Map 3
#184 posted by gb [46.142.11.255] on 2011/05/15 21:50:43
Fuckin' A.
This is maybe THE best Quake map I've seen in a long time. Architecture and flow of this map are great. Reminds me of a Negke map, only with a much bigger scale.
Shame I had to godmode it on Easy.
Also, with the crossbow secret, don't use a 32 unit high shore. People with lower FPS won't be able to get out. I had to noclip.
Otherwise great, just the ridiculous difficulty again. Does this pack even HAVE skill settings?
Difficulty?
#185 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/15 22:27:30
No probs on hard skill compared to the typical map these days. Tough fights but generally space to move and lots of supplies. Wand snipes otherwise...
Map 4
#186 posted by gb [46.142.11.255] on 2011/05/15 22:31:26
Also great. How many rooms were that, 2? 3? Very good flow again.
God-moding becomes routine...
Map 5
#187 posted by gb [46.142.11.255] on 2011/05/15 22:36:31
Great stuff again.
Those last 3 maps are insane. If it had been just that, the pack would probably be a 20 on your own scale, Tronyn.
My problems with it are on the mod side, and with difficulty settings. And while the first two maps are good, they seem to detract from the awesomeness.
Difficulty: For me, skill 0 is already a bad joke.
Neither Of Us Should Review Tronyn Releases
#188 posted by negke [89.204.137.165] on 2011/05/15 22:46:33
You would rant about them being too hard and complain they're not RMQ, I would bitch at great length about technical things that no one else notices or cares about.
So maybe it would be best if Quakis did one on TAW, for example. Or TeamShambler.
#189 posted by gb [46.142.11.255] on 2011/05/15 22:58:25
It's great stuff anyway.
#190 posted by ZealousQuakeFan [188.220.248.12] on 2011/05/16 18:03:00
I appear to be the only person who hates the Vore with such burning intensity to the point of never wanting to use it. Then people use those god awful floating vore wraith things from DoE which are even worse... yays practically unavoidable projectiles...And they get used in packs... sigh.
Still, in copying enemies from Hexen 2 you didn't copy the fucking annoying bints that shield every time you hit them. Or perhaps you did and I haven't reached them yet :p
#191 posted by Zwiffle [184.60.27.118] on 2011/05/16 18:49:36
Yeah they shield if you use rockets/grenades from what I noticed. That's why I switched to dbs to kill them, seems to work better.
Vores.
#192 posted by Shambler [86.25.223.11] on 2011/05/16 19:02:22
Are teh awesome.
Cheers
#193 posted by stevenaaus [114.73.65.42] on 2011/05/25 00:48:44
One of your most balanced packs Tronyn ;> The finale was right up there, and all maps were great. Love the chainsaw gibbing action and crossbow.
+1 the mismatched model problem on game load.
K
#194 posted by Tronyn [64.255.164.53] on 2011/06/03 04:49:56
going to try to put together a rerelease for QEXPO, along with Unforgiven. Feedback in this thread will be taken into account. Just wanted to take the time to formally bitch here about this not being on Quaddicted: if the arcanum demo is fine to be there, why not the full version of the same project? There's no mod stuff here that wasn't in Dry Sorrow/Sludge Factory, and indeed, much of the content here was in A Roman Wilderness of Pain and SoE: Indian Summer/nsoe2. I know the definition thing has been discussed to death re: RMQ, but it still seems pretty arbitrary to me. Plus RMQ is obviously the future, as a side note.
#195 posted by [Kona] [121.73.104.148] on 2011/06/03 05:30:24
Are tc's and pc's not allowed on quaddicted? that's a bit odd. for a game that barely gets several releases a year, if it's worthy of playing, it should be on quaddicted. oh well
Wb Tronyn
#196 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/03 05:52:45
:)
#197 posted by [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/03 06:34:27
If I recalled correctly, the RemakeQuake team accepted that quaddicted is Spirit's site, and Spirit himself said that Arcanum feels vanilla enough.
Tronyn
#198 posted by negke [89.204.153.200] on 2011/06/03 09:33:53
It's there. I just didn't make the description page yet.
#199 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/03 19:26:55
Has the model mismatch bug been fixed?
#200 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/03 20:12:25
afaik, the mismatch bug arises from the qc, not the map.
#201 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/04 02:05:59
This release shouldn't be on quaddicted, right? It has unvised maps, better to wait until the rerelease.
Right
#202 posted by Tronyn [174.2.53.253] on 2011/06/04 02:41:27
fair enough
#203 posted by Apm [82.43.40.4] on 2011/06/04 04:21:11
stutters like crazy in fitz085 making it unplayable. Any advice?
#204 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/04 04:33:34
Maps are unvised, wait for the rerelease
Or Use RMQ Engine
#205 posted by Drew [98.124.27.247] on 2011/06/04 07:43:21
also, the aforementioned r_flatlightstyles 1 command
#206 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/04 08:05:12
or -nomtex with Aguirre quake
#207 posted by Spirit [80.171.145.143] on 2011/06/04 10:07:23
Tronyn, have you read my posts above? If you have further questions please ask. But as negke already said, I gave in and uploaded the file a while ago, it just does not have a description yet and I myself will not prepare that.
In hindsight I would not actually call it "vanilla-enough" since it fundamentally changes most of the gameplay. So consider this an exception and thank the Remake Quake mob for the trouble. Previously I always bent the rules because you asked me nicely to host your latest releases.
If I was to restart Quaddicted from scratch most of your releases would not make it since they are very different from vanilla Quake. This has nothing to do with quality or taste but the scope of the site.
As I said before, if someone came up with a well working and solid system how to integrate all kinds of mods I would be open-minded and very thankful about it. I made one first (badly chosen) post about it ( http://www.quaddicted.com/quaddict... ) but did not follow up with more examples of problems because I simply do not personally care. It was an attempt to defend myself but I realised that it was futile.
And for the record, maps being unvised is completely irrelevant. And I am getting really tired of being told what to do.
Correction
#208 posted by Spirit [80.171.145.143] on 2011/06/04 10:09:52
If I was to restart Quaddicted from scratch most of your releases would not make it since they are very different from vanilla Quake.
If I was to restart Quaddicted from scratch some of your releases would not make it since they are very different from vanilla Quake.
#209 posted by gb [46.142.20.122] on 2011/06/04 12:57:15
Quaddicted is 100% Spirit's site and he can do there what he wants.
The flip side is: If Spirit does not host someone's stuff on his site, it's also 100% his decision.
Hm
#210 posted by Spirit [80.171.127.78] on 2011/06/04 16:32:19
so it still is not clear?
I do not recall any sp quake map ever being denied.
And for mods I try to decide as technical as possible if they are vanilla quake. I do not flip a coin nor do I decide on personal taste or preference.
Quaddicted is >50% negke's descriptions and screenshots by the way.
Spirit
#211 posted by spy [95.56.99.17] on 2011/06/04 19:20:43
If I was to restart Quaddicted from scratch some of your releases would not make it since they are very different from vanilla Quake.
so in what/which aspects its different from the other quake releases???
it's still the same ole quake
#212 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/04 19:35:58
why don't you tell us how it IS like quake. you know, beyond that there are ogres and shamblers in it.
or is that all it takes for you to consider something quake?
i love this map pack. it's got great exciting fights and very evocative and interesting brushwork, but i find it hard to believe that you can't see how different it plays from normal quake.
indeed, i'd say that seems to have been PM and Tronyn's direction-- to move quake into the more evil fantasy direction with all the wizard types and other hexen monsters.
A Suggestion
#213 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/05 00:22:13
How about just opening quaddicted to FPS SP mods? I think those could be easily repacked.
I Hereby Declare Myself Supreme Judge Of Quakeiness
#214 posted by gb [46.142.15.129] on 2011/06/05 04:29:52
And I would say that Tronyn's maps are about 66.6% Quake, but I can't say for sure since I'm not wearing my monocle tonight.
How pretentious can you get.
Just Add Sp Mods To Quadaddicted
#215 posted by nitin [203.214.38.81] on 2011/06/05 04:41:49
that would be my solution.
#216 posted by Yhe1 [71.246.41.128] on 2011/06/05 05:03:57
haha, bet this is gonna flare up again when Nehahra 2 is released
I Hope Not
#217 posted by jt_ [24.11.39.160] on 2011/06/05 16:57:06
The discussion is silly. Spirit can up whatever he damn well pleases on quaddicted, it's his website.
Bleaugh
#218 posted by ijed [190.22.32.107] on 2011/06/06 03:53:13
Yes, he can.
This pack is pure Quake goodness.
I still haven't finished it, but its great - thanks guys.
----
Spirit, I get the feeling you've gotten tired of the community in general. I can understand why.
But the reason, I think, that older 'non-quake' mods were included anyway was just because you personally had more enthusiasm about anything to do with the game.
I'm not having a go at you, but you seem a bit... worn out by the obligations that have been put on you, and that you've put on yourself.
This has happened to almost everyone in the RMQ team at one point or another, and a break was taken.
----
In any case, I think we'll all have some really nice things to look forward to this Quakemass :D
Maybe The Above
#219 posted by ijed [190.22.32.107] on 2011/06/06 03:55:03
Should have been in a private email.
A Heavy Burden
#220 posted by Baker [99.36.55.239] on 2011/06/06 04:52:09
Carrying the one true ring is a heavy burden (LOTR allusion intended).
Spirit has carried more luggage uphill than anyone (and frankly done a better job than any non-Spirit would have done).
Give him some slack. Yeah, in a perfect world many of the above posts shouldn't be in this thread. But we all know these kind of things happens.
I haven't had time to play Tronyn's apparently really good --- hey it has 200+ replies --- release.
Tronyn is in the top 3 of consistently awesome single player action and I won't spend 2 minute worrying about whether it is "Quake-enough".
I look for challenge, puzzles and entertainment value in release downloads. I also like a bit of surprise and some variation. Tronyn always delivers this.
#221 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/06 07:13:54
if you have a fast machine, they are pretty playable as is and deliver a solid 4~ hours of play. totally worth your time.
also, i feel i should apologize to tronyn for not noticing the maps were unvised. in hindsight, that i had to use r_flatlightstyles should have tipped me off.
and sorry to everyone who played and had their first playthrough of the maps spoiled by poor performance.
#222 posted by Trinca [194.65.24.228] on 2011/06/06 09:47:33
used directq and didn't even notice the maps weren“t vis :\
The RMQ
#223 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2011/06/06 13:47:35
Engine plays them fine as well.
Yeah
#224 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/06 22:04:28
all those engines are pretty lightweight, but i can definitely see it chugging on graphically intense engines (dp being the obvious example, but there are a few more out there).
Anyway
#225 posted by gb [46.142.41.33] on 2011/06/07 12:03:14
There is always Quaketastic for hosting. Although that has a size limit that's possibly too low for some newer mods. 50 MB or so?
I bet Quakeone.com would also host some mods if one would ask them. I mean they host Reforged and they also kindly hosted the RMQ multiplayer demo.
Finally, there's always moddb, wordpress et al and I bet that Quakeone.com would kindly link to any such projects.
#226 posted by negke [89.204.137.139] on 2011/06/07 12:37:52
Modern specs don't necessarily guarantee unvised excessive maps will run smoothly all the time. Different video cards may treat things differently it seems. It's what mh mentioned - the old Quake engine render wasn't meant for this and handles such stress inefficiently.
#227 posted by Yhe1 [71.160.150.186] on 2011/06/10 20:29:25
How does the model mismatch bug happen? If I just use normal load/save and not quicksave, will I still encounter it?
#228 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/10 20:52:01
no idea. i never encountered it until after someone mentioned it and i went back to check.
someone said just saving and reloading again can fix it, dunno...
if the problem is indeed a random precache order in the mod, then i suppose reloading multiple times may get you the right precache order eventually?
#229 posted by Yhe1 [71.160.150.186] on 2011/06/10 21:52:40
Will PM fix this bug then?
#230 posted by stevenaaus [114.72.218.8] on 2011/06/10 23:04:54
After starting up QS fresh, most game loads from >= arcanum3 are broken here - just crazy mismatched models everywhere. This fixes it for me:
If game save is from arcanum5
"map arcanum4"
"changelevel arcanum5"
and then game loads work fine until i close the engine again.
Re: Bug
#231 posted by Tronyn [174.2.53.253] on 2011/06/11 01:39:01
PM figured out what it was & it'll be fixed next release
#232 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 05:34:04
cool, thanks for the update!
if he doesn't mind sharing, i'd be interested in knowing what caused it, if only so i can avoid it myself?
Precache Bug Caused By Failed Serverflag Trick.
#233 posted by PM [72.216.40.118] on 2011/06/11 15:16:29
Due to the extra weapons, the mod precaches many models and sounds. I noticed that serverflags (i.e., runes) persist through the game, even across saves. The theory is I assign a custom weapon to a serverflag. If the serverflag is on, the weapon is enabled and precached. In other words, new weapons are available only when needed. Apparently, precaching controlled by serverflags does not work across saves.
#234 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/11 20:31:57
damn, that's clever too. shame it doesn't work though. at least in current times, saving on precaches isn't a problem anymore.
Why That Happens
#235 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/06/12 01:13:00
For those who enjoy the extra detail of these things: this happens because serverflag IS saved in the save files, but it isn't applied until after precaches have been created.
Quake needs to rebuild the state of the server when loading a save. So the first thing it does is load the map and run the spawnframe and two physics frames. This creates all the static sounds, entities and makes sure that all the baseline initialisation is done.
It then has a complete snapshot of the world state in the save frame, entities, globals and so on, and proceeds to set the server up to match that exactly. The only problem is that models are saved by their modelindex, which is determined by the order that they are first precached in. This is a bit fragile, and can be broken in a few ways that I know of:
Playing on a different version of a progs which precaches some extra models.
Having a progs which randomises the precache order. Imagine an entity with a random selection of variant models to choose from. This can break the precache order if repeats occur in different patterns.
PM's new variation, where a serverflag is set before the map is loaded when the save was made, but isn't reset by the loading code until after the precache table has been rebuilt.
Could anything be done about this particular case? It sounds tough. You'd have to encode any signal that serverflags were set in the save file, but you can't read anything from the save file until the precaches are built.
So best I think you could do is put some save game detection code in your mod. When you detect that
a) a save file has just been loaded
b) the serverflag was not set at worldspawn when you loaded this time.
and
c) the serverflag is set within the save file
then you know that the modeltable is broken, but that resetting the server will fix it.
The slightly ugly solution in this situation is then just to stuffcmd a restart in the console, so people who are loading under the broken savegames have to go through the loading process twice - once to set the serverflag to the correct value and a second time to get the modeltable correct.
You have to be REALLY careful here not to create an infinite loop of restarts by just throwing a restart in whenever you load a save and the serverflag is set. The way to do it is to store whether the serverflag is set in two variables, one of them flagged nosave and the other not. Set them both in worldspawn, and any time that you change the serverflag update them too. When you load a save the nosave variable will be set to the value the engine held BEFORE the save was processed and the other variable will be the value pulled from the save. A mismatch means you need to restart.
Preach thinks about it for a little bit...
Rats! It would all be fixed if you wanted to restart the server, but of course you actually want a save game to reload, and there isn't a server command for that. So the best you can do is run an objerror when you detect the corrupt table.
"Error: model table corrupt. Please reload your save to continue..."
This probably pushes it into territory awkward enough to not bother saving the feature. Interesting trip into the save game theory though...
Interesting...
#236 posted by PM [72.216.40.118] on 2011/06/12 01:56:42
I already ripped out the serverflag precache nonsense from the mod.
#237 posted by necros [99.227.131.204] on 2011/06/12 07:49:59
it'd be cool if an engine had an auto correcting system, storing like one of those error checking codes alongside the modelindex. if, on loading, it found the code didn't match, it would search through all the precaches for a matching one, and realign the modelindices.
...or just don't code stuff like that in the progs, i guess. hehe :P
Special Cases
#238 posted by Preach [62.30.197.42] on 2011/06/12 13:10:49
The problem is that this is a special case where we can identify how the precaches end up in a different order (value of a cvar) and we have a simple way to restore the conditions that created the original list (reset the cvar then load again).
In the case of random model selection, even if the engine could identify that the progs is doing that, there's still no way that it can recreate the random numbers generated in the original savegame. Saves don't record history like that, just an instant snapshot.
Of course the proper solution would be to recognise the importance of the modelindex table and store THAT in the savegame, but modifying the savegame format then creates incompatibilities between engines and savegames, which is worse. By the time you come up with an extensible "extended savegame file" which is saved side by side with the original save as "save0.svx" and probably stores all it's data in xml so that any engine can create new data there and the others can safely ignore it...you've probably gone too far.
#239 posted by Yhe1 [71.160.150.186] on 2011/06/23 04:01:41
When's the re-release coming, Tronyn?
#240 posted by erc [195.174.19.188] on 2011/06/25 01:24:29
Finally played this - though I can't give it a perfect score due to the slight inconsistency between the maps.
Actually, the pack could do better without the first map. The premise is good enough, it fits as an introduction but it doesn't deliver in execution and gameplay. Pulsar's map is great in its chosen textureset and it would remain perfect as a standalone creation (or in this context, as a secret map). The duo of map 3 and map 4 works wonders, they are without a doubt among the best I've played for the last two years - amazing interconnectivy, masterful brushwork, enjoyable setpieces. The finisher slightly deviates from the theme due to the tech bits but still feels right at home, and well, it looks brilliant. Too bad the flow remains sluggish till the boss fight.
Unlike Tronyn's previous maps which always turned to a chore at some point or another due to inhuman setpieces, I've managed to beat the pack on skill2 without too much frustration - definitely an improvement.
This will be even better with added maps and technical polish. Can't wait for the rerelease.
Keep up the good work guys.
Oh Man..
#241 posted by Omus [88.202.214.208] on 2011/10/28 20:26:08
I just finished this pack. I gotta say the three last maps are part of a very small club of all time god like quake maps. The architecture especially on Dis Aliter Visum I is mind blowing.
Not to diss the other mappers, but I think this pack would have stood out more without the 2 'intro' maps. I agree with erc, Oderint Dun Metuat should have been released stand alone, or as part of another pack (for some reason I found the atmosphere very Quoth like, and a few Quoth monsters in there would have been fitting).
The first map had potential but seemed unfinished somehow, performance was atrocious without the excuse of Tronyns maps (incredibly complex brush work). Brushwork in the natural area (rocks and trees) looked like it was done in 10 minutes, and it really didn't need the ugly, framerate killing rain effect either. I also found the whole map pretty unbalanced monster/weapon wise. With quite a bit of polish I think it could have made a worthy intro map because the theme was well executed, very 'wizard like'. Maybe there could be medium sized 'blue' area at the end?

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