Func_Msgboard: Sega Quake

News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Register | Log in

|  | Sega Quake

Posted by the silent [213.188.221.75] on 2007/09/19 17:32:28

I was just wandering around Wikipedia, and stumbled on the Quake page, read on and it brought back to mind the Sega Saturn version of the Big Q. I remember playing it back in the days at a friends' place and thinking how I would have loved to play the 4 bonus levels that version had. Not being able to pester my friend enough to let me spend hours in front of his tv, I quickly forgot that.
Today, it just dawned on me, hey, wouldn't it be freakin' cool if any of the guys over@func felt like recreating and releasing them to the public? Would there be copyright issues? Anyone picking on this? I would do it myself, but we all know the sad story of the guy who was not able even to start a map editor, so...
What do you say?

Pics!
#1 posted by Spirit [213.39.174.14] on 2007/09/19 17:57:44
#2 posted by golden_boy [89.27.253.92] on 2007/09/19 19:48:46
are those levels even any good?
I suppose we could mail The Romero about this, or id Software. The standard levels are now open source, so perhaps we could get the bonus ones too.
On the other hand, if they were good levels somebody would already have stolen/ported them I think. You could just rip them from the pakfiles of that version, no?
Oh and: Pics!
Hmm..
#3 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/19 21:10:36
Probably the levels were made (and therefore copyrighted) by another developer, i.e. whoever ported it. So Romero probably can't help, other than maybe pointing you in the right direction
Well, Well...
#4 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/20 09:24:42
... I seem to remember that those levels were at least standard id quality, I only played 2 at the time and, quite frankly, I wouldn't know where to find screenshots, I'll try google them later.
@golden_boy, do you mean that .pak files from the Sega version would be playable on PC? Would it be the same with the other versions? I'm not that much of a techboy, you know...
And I'd sure love to play all versions of this game!
As for re-creating them... Could it be a speedmap theme? If someone finds a screenshot, the theme would be: Build a map around this!
Found Something...
#5 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/20 10:16:12
...does not say much, tough...
http://curmudgeongamer.com/2002/03...
I've discovered the names and how to jump to the 4 bonus levels in a cheats document to be found on Fileplanet:
PURGATORIUM..........|.E4L8.LEV.
HELL’S AERIE.........|.E4L9.LEV.
THE COLISEUM.........|.E4L10.LEV
WATERY GRAVE.........|.E4L11.LEV
I did not remember they were substitutes for the secrets level(Thinking of Quake without Ziggurat Vertigo gives me goosebumps), furthermore, I discovered in this document some nice features of the Sega version (i.e. the "rain" cheat that has rain falling in open areas of maps), still, no screen of the secret levels...
I'll keep searching....
Didn't Even Know There Is A Saturn Port As Well
#6 posted by negke [82.82.188.135] on 2007/09/20 10:58:21
Can't you just warez the Saturn version and play it with an emulator? If the file structure is remotely similar to the PC version, one could maybe extract the levels and try some obscure bspversion conversion. I don't expect much from them however. Do you remember anything about their sizes/themes?
I own the N64 port shown in the comparison shots. What were they thinking when adding the colored lighting... Indeed, many areas have been simplified to varying degrees. Deathmatch rocked (well, in a way) with the wacky controls, no idea why people always refused to play it with me. ;) The Saturn version looks somewhat better.
Actually...
#7 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/20 11:31:25
...I'm thinking of asking that old friend if he still has the disc and try to do something with it.
About size and themes, I'd say average Q1, I seem to remember that secret level 1(Purgatorium, as we have learned), accessed from where once was Ziggurat Vertigo, was blue metal in style, with lotsa scrags...
If you're interested in this version, I'd suggest you give a look at the document about cheat codes ( http://files.filefront.com/Quake+1... ) it has a good section about Sega Quake and offers nice comparation with the other 2 versions.
Colored lightning, they were thinking "Hey, we can make this look like Quake2, it just came out, people will love it!".
They made it look like Barnum in Hell, instead...
Oh, well...
Now, if I only can find the number of that friend of mine....
Found This!
#8 posted by JohnXmas [85.0.184.5] on 2007/09/20 13:06:52
http://snesorama.us/board/showthre...
But I've no idea how to convert these levels...
Heh
#9 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.34] on 2007/09/20 14:30:57
I am playing it with the Yabause emulator right now, unfortunately there is some overlay of sprites on the screen. Seems like they used sprites for the hud weapon models. No entities are displayed and the walls are tilted in a weird way. The levels are _very_ low quality compared to the original ones in my opinion. Like 50% of the brushwork is gone for performance.
Hm, that overlay layer can be turned off.
I tried one secret map, secret3 I think. It was an arena where the player had to select a monster to fight against a computer monster (eg orge vs shambler). Or the other secret levels alike?
Some Screenshots From That Level
#10 posted by Spirit [213.39.203.34] on 2007/09/20 14:36:59
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/1...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/2...
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/3...
Uh... Dunno...
#11 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/20 14:37:12
... As I said, I remember having played the first two secret levels, or maybe only the first one...
But, I don't remember such difference in quality... It's been along while... My brain has had to take a lot of abuse ever since...
Hey, can you give me a link to Yabause? I dloaded a coupla emulators, but they don't seem to work at all...
Stupid Me...
#12 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/20 14:40:22
...what is google for?
Found Yabause. Thanks anyway.
SAGE
#13 posted by -_- [91.122.201.15] on 2007/09/20 20:21:17
sega
Haha
#14 posted by starbuck [80.192.72.117] on 2007/09/21 12:22:32
those levels look total balls! Is there supposed to be no lighting? Seriously, the majority of the people who post on Func can do better speedmaps.
Starbuck:
#15 posted by metlslime [204.15.3.5] on 2007/09/21 22:04:58
but, consider the ridiculously low specs of the systems they were designed to run on. (Not to say these were awesome, but you do have to consider being told "re-make this 1mb map, but it can only be 500k in size, and you can only use lightmaps on 50% of the walls" or similar.)
I Think
#16 posted by bambuz [80.221.169.201] on 2007/09/21 22:11:06
he meant the bonus map.
Errr....
#17 posted by the silent [84.222.239.54] on 2007/09/22 15:00:03
...Can anyone fill me in on how to actually run a game with an emulator? I tries Yabause, SSc to no avail... YAbause is the easiest to use for me, but, after having set up the thing, told it where to find track01.iso, nothing happens...
Uff.. damn my poor tech skills....
Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks...
It's Not Worth It
#18 posted by Spirit [213.39.129.84] on 2007/09/22 19:11:01
It's _very_ slow and as I said entities do not show up. You need to find a BIOS image for Yabause and specify some options too.
#19 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.69] on 2007/09/26 20:18:33
@screenshots: Are you kidding? :-)
Spirit et al: What is the format, I assume it's a CD image? Is it ISO9660?
If so, it should be easily readable. You could mount it and look at the contents. Maybe it does have PAK files.
Or it has a LHA archive like Shareware Quake.
It is definitely possible to extract the BSPs. But downloading 70 MB of crap from some unreliable host doesn't seem attractive to me considering the screenshots.
Who did the four bonus levels? Id Software?
#20 posted by negke [82.82.170.135] on 2007/09/26 20:43:37
Yes, it's an iso file. There are no pak files, the maps are in .lev format iirc. No idea how to open/convert them.
They were most likely not made by id - see metl's first post.
Heh
#21 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.41] on 2007/09/26 20:53:28
The filelist from the ISO:
382 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - 0
996 Kilobytes - 1997-10-23 - credits.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - drklogo.pic
1269 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l1.lev
1363 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l2.lev
1321 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l3.lev
1212 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l4.lev
1355 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l5.lev
1216 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l6.lev
654 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l7.lev
1369 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l1.lev
1349 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e2l2.lev
1590 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l3.lev
1457 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l4.lev
1348 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l5.lev
1500 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l6.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e2m6.pic
1340 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l1.lev
1181 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l2.lev
1218 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l3.lev
1403 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l4.lev
1434 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l5.lev
1263 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l6.lev
982 Kilobytes - 1997-10-22 - e4l10.lev
1029 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l11.lev
1281 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l1.lev
1444 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l2.lev
1319 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l3.lev
1406 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l4.lev
1441 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e4l5.lev
1149 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l6.lev
1497 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l7.lev
1259 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l8.lev
1080 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l9.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e4m6.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end4.pic
1220 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - end.lev
81 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - initload.dat
164 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - intro.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - litlogo2.pic
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_abs.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_bib.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - nits_cpy.txt
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - qblank.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-16 - qload.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - qlogo.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - quaker2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker3.pic
6 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - quake.scr
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - secret.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - sega.pic
11204 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - skank.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash4.pic
1068 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - start.lev
632 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - static.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - tele.pic
607 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - test.lev
518 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - title.lev
3 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - usip.bin
#22 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.69] on 2007/09/26 21:07:59
My thought on that is that
a) LEV is obviously short for Level
This means it's not really an established file format, just a work extension. I'm pretty sure the actual file format is BSP, because it seems unlikely that they had their own map compiler.
b) It could be renamed BSP (unlikely)
c) It could be individually compressed files, i.e. packed with one of the standard packers of the time.
Finding out which is a matter of trying to open them with various unpackers.
Moreover, the unpacker would have to be on the CD, because the files would need to be extracted for playing. It is either an executable or it's built into the engine. Or it's some built-in SEGA thing (BIOS?).
One could also spy at the files with a text editor.
Maps: If id wasn't guilty, who is? The names of these mappers should be in the Book of Quake.
Lev.bsp
#23 posted by negke [82.82.170.135] on 2007/09/26 21:22:12
I doubt it's standard bsp format. At least when I opened it with a text editor and searched for worldspawn, I found nothing (no text strings). Maybe I overlooked something but I don't think so.
Well, I Tried Some Stuff
#24 posted by Spirit [80.171.28.41] on 2007/09/26 21:25:20
eg file *.lev:
all except credits.lev and e*l1.lev are "identified" as lif file, the others are just "data". Seems like file does not work on these as it also "identifies" some pictures as sounds here (at least I think we can be sure that the .pic files are no sounds...).
Watching them with a Hexeditor shows that they got quite some non-different stuff in the header(?).
http://shub-hub.com/files/trash_wi...
Good luck! :)
What Book of Quake? It's not in Masters of Doom if you meant that.
*Of Course I Meant Hex Editor Above
#25 posted by negke [82.82.170.135] on 2007/09/26 21:34:20
They don't seem to be compressed as their sizes are rougly equal to their PC counterparts (a bit smaller, likely because of the reduced details).
Spirit
#26 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.69] on 2007/09/26 21:42:42
E1M1.bsp (the PC version) registers at 1365176 bytes; this one (assuming E1L1 is Slipgate Complex) is 1269 KB.
This is about a 10 percent size difference. What does the size difference come from?
a) Compression (see above)
b) Stuff they took out (see rename theory)
I see a single BIN file, which obviously means Binary - not necessarily executable.
usip.bin - only 3 KB so this isn't the engine.
There are also .dat files.
static.dat - 632 KB - Is this the game code?
skank.dat - 11.2 MB (!) This must be sounds or...
intro.dat - 164 KB - perhaps demos?
initload.dat - 81 KB - this sounds interesting.
I'm pretty sure those .dat files are interesting. Internet forums or newsgroups might know more... they are probably archives.
But considering we only want the levels, I think there's no need to look further.
Anyway - where is the rest of the stuff? There should be sound samples, models... only 67 MB? It must have been scaled down rigidly.
The Filename Gives A Hint
#27 posted by Spirit [91.62.20.112] on 2007/09/26 21:55:46
I left out some bigger files as my upload sucks.
Oh, No I Was
#28 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.69] on 2007/09/26 22:17:46
thinking/talking wrong. I was stumped for a moment that the whole ISO is only 67 MB, but of course that's all right.
Pak0.pak is 18 MB, Pak1.pak is 34, so 67 MB is about right for the whole package (iso images don't contain audio). My fault, ignore what I said.
Thanks for the stuff, but I'm getting interested and might just buy the whole thing. ^^
Thank You For Playing Powerslave!
#29 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.93] on 2007/09/26 23:51:15
That's what I found in initload.dat. So I looked that up.
Turns out Powerslave (Exhumed) and Quake have a lot in common on the Sega Saturn.
based on Lobotomy Software's SlaveDriver Engine and feature a true 3D world, similar to Quake. It is worth noting that the same engine was used to power the Sega Saturn versions of Duke Nukem 3D and eventually Quake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhum...
It Gets Even Better
#30 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.93] on 2007/09/27 00:11:42
http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/satu...
Interview with Lobotomy Software on porting Duke to Saturn, using their own obviously superior engine PLUS their own level editor, which was modified to import the Duke maps.
Considering Lobotomy later did Quake for Saturn, the following conclusions seem in order:
1. Saturn Quake runs on Lobotomy's engine, not Id's
2. The levels were compiled using Brew, Lobotomy's editor.
In which case having the compiled maps is of no use to us.
:-/
#31 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.93] on 2007/09/27 00:17:27
Seems like they used sprites for the hud weapon models.
That would be explained then. You're playing Exhumed/Duke3D with Quake levels, not Quake.
The Thick Plottens!
#32 posted by Kell [80.192.19.108] on 2007/09/27 00:36:36
#33 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.84] on 2007/09/27 00:40:05
http://www.whipassgaming.com/genes...
another pretty interesting Lobotomy interview.
Have A Beer
#34 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.84] on 2007/09/27 00:59:46
Lobotomy Software. You made a kick-ass engine and a nice game.
And that was that.
And The Final Scoop...
#35 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.84] on 2007/09/27 01:39:49
http://curmudgeongamer.com/article...
Interview with Ezra Dreisbach, Quake Saturn programmer
Ezra: For Quake, all the levels were rebuilt by hand using our in house tool "Brew".
That level (Ziggurat Vertigo) was way too open to run well on the Saturn. One of the main problems with both the Quake and the Duke ports was that, on the Saturn, you can't just draw a huge flat wall as one huge flat polygon. For one thing there's no perspective correction, and some other limitations prevent you from even trying to work around that problem by dynamically subdividing the walls. So a flat wall has to be drawn as a mesh of quads. This means that huge walls have to be a lot of polygons, so huge open areas just can't work. One of the Duke Nukem secret levels had to be replaced for the same reason.
The exclusive secret levels were designed by the whole quake team.
That sounds like a mountainous task, rebuilding all the levels. It also means there are not even map sources that any of us could use today.
Hmmmm...
#36 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/27 09:03:40
...You guys really did your homework! What an interesting read!
So, is there any way I'll eventually get to play those levels?
Shall I keep trying to get those pesky emulators to work?
#37 posted by Spirit [213.39.225.203] on 2007/09/27 09:08:24
Good work, golden_boy! Would be great to add this information to Wikipedia if you feel like it.
the_silent: I would not hope for it. :P
The Silent
#38 posted by negke [82.83.62.186] on 2007/09/27 09:42:44
I guess trying to get one of the emulators to work is your only chance.
Try these bios roms: http://segaxtreme.net/content/emul...
Maybe there is some additional information how to set it up here: http://www.emulator-zone.com
In case you're successful, please post some more screenshots.
Thx, Neg|ke...
#39 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/27 09:50:19
... I'll try for sure.
Even if Spirit says it's really not worth the effort, given the suckage of said levels.
But, to tell the truth, to me playing those levels is like finally having a way with that hugely arousing blonde that you saw in High School but just couldn't get next to 'cause she was, like 3 years older than you. Now she's 40. Those melons are sagging bad, but... What the hell! Can't be worse than a solitary night on your own, right? ;)
You get the idea....
By The Way...
#40 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/27 09:51:43
... any of you can speak any italian?
1st Attempt...
#41 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/09/27 13:04:27
... Unplayable.
Managed to get it running, tho....
#42 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.204] on 2007/09/28 20:44:26
... any of you can speak any italian?
Luckily not, considering I'd probably hear about that hugely arousing blonde from high school in Italian then.
:-) 40? Gosh you're ... grown up. 3 years older than me would be 36, which still is really acceptable.
Adding to Wikipedia:
Too much other stuff to do atm, used up all time to make demos for Ijed. ^^ And there would be mapping to do. ^^ ^^
Plus being pissed about the fact that this shop hasn't been able to deliver the Krait I ordered two weeks ago. GRRRR.
Oh...
#43 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/10/01 12:02:00
... no, I don't mean to tell anything more than what I said before in italian, why should I?
I only asked because "sega" in italian can have an... amusing meaning, especially coupled with names like Quake, or a number of other games' names...
And yes, I'm "grown up", in fact, I turn 38 this very day...
"Acceptable", what can I say, I would suggest you don't let hugely arousing blondes in their 40s scare ya, they can be quite amusing human beings, I assure you... ;))
Besides, they may have a trick or two you don't know up their sleeves... ;))))
#44 posted by golden_boy [89.27.252.4] on 2007/10/01 14:56:41
Hehe, yes they may. But it's nice having something to look forward to :-)
happy birthday =)
Happy Birthday Distrans
#45 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/01 16:08:13
I just turned 26 . . . still a we'en.
Well, Thanks, Guys..
#46 posted by the silent [82.185.144.141] on 2007/10/01 16:16:19
.. Both of you..
I suppose Ijed meant "Happy Bday, the Silent" or do I share my birthdate with one of the mighty authors of Travail?
Anyway, thanks a lot, I'll raise a toast to you all tonight!
Argh
#47 posted by ijed [216.241.20.2] on 2007/10/01 18:02:22
Sorry, you've got the same colour name :\
Copyright
#48 posted by ahphooey [24.179.182.58] on 2007/10/26 14:05:37
On the title screen showing the copyright to id, it also says copyright portions Sega. I assume that the portions are the exclusive levels, but I'm not sure.
Yup
#49 posted by golden_boy [84.177.244.252] on 2007/10/26 16:00:53
They completely remade the levels, with id's agreement I would guess.
#50 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.161] on 2010/01/15 20:56:06
Anyone knows if this actually exists: http://forums.lostlevels.org/viewt... (sega saturn quake beta)?
I played around with emulators again. SSF always hung. But I managed to get the FOSS Yabause to load it. You need a BIOS. Also use software rendering.
Oops
#51 posted by Spirit [213.39.214.161] on 2010/01/15 20:56:37
It does not really work. Models are not rendered & the sky is garbled and overlays parts of the screen.

Post A Reply:

Name: |
Title: |
Body: |

Website copyright © 2002-2011 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.