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              <p><font color="#0000FF"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0000CC">volume 
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        <p align="LEFT"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="+3" color="#0022A8">Blue 
          and Levelord Get Drunk!</font></p>
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        <p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Levelord</font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">: 
          I walked six blocks, and I was drenched in sweat. Dallas is nice, the 
          people are nice, the economy's great. But there's nothing to do, there's 
          no mountains, there's no ocean, there's nothing to do.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: It's a very 
          flat place. So you're from Connecticut. Where they don't allow children, 
          that's the old Mel Brooks joke. A 2000 year old man...he comes from 
          Connecticut, Connecticut. They don't allow children.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: [laughs] 
          Carl Reiner.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Yeah. So they 
          made you move out as a child...I have a tough time picturing you as 
          a child...maybe it's the pirate get-up.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I feel as 
          though I’ve reverted back to my childhood.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Maybe that's 
          it...you're certainly not a stodgy individual.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: stodgy.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: stodgy. But 

          you maintain a youthful thing...is that what happened, is it all the 
          21 year olds?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I don't 
          have a wife, I don't have kids, I don't have a mortgage.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Are any of those 
          things in your future?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I don't 
          know. Again, the 45 year old thing. What would be great is if you have 
          so much money it doesn't matter what you look like, or how old you are, 
          you just rent a girl for five years. Prenuptial agreement that she'll 
          leave -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: One of those 
          things where you're walking down the beach with her, and everyone turns 
          their heads and goes, 'he's got money.' Or is it from that movie The 
          Edge, 'that man has a plane.'</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: So, I have 
          no idea...I don't think they'll be kids in it for me. I mean you're 
          old enough, isn't that hard to imagine?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: I can't picture 
          myself telling them what to do. Because I know what I would have said...frightening.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I think 
          you have to be young and stupid to do that. Again though, if you had 
          enough money, she stays at home, raises the kids with a nanny or two.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Or she goes 
          away with the kids and you stay at home with a nanny or two. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Okay!</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Just a thought. 
          Just an alternative approach. So what does a 40 year old transplanted 
          New Englander do in a flat space for fun?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: One who 
          lived in LA for ten years, and New York for one.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: <i>Is</i> there 
          anything for you to do for fun? Is there nothing here for you?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I've been 
          drinking...smoking again.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You had quit 
          -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: In January, 
          yeah.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Is quitting 
          before crunch time a mistake? Is this advice for future level designers?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: This crunch 
          time in particular...I think it was because of a non ending four or 
          five years, from Duke Nukem to the add-on to Sin, with maybe a two to 
          three week gap between the three projects, but otherwise no weekends. 
          Not a single Sunday, a single Labor Day, I don't know what a three day 
          weekend is. And that's not to complain, it's because this is what I 
          want to do, and I have to be able to get paid for it. So I do it when 
          I work, and I do it when I don't work. But I’m starting to realize that 
          you've got to, and this is why in every major religion, God says to 
          take one day off a week, you can't work one day a week.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: It's the burn 
          out.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: It's the 
          burn out. Yeah, you have to do something else. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: God knew about 
          burn out back then. And we thought it was one of those trendy 80's words.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I lived 
          with a psyche-tech for seven years...and I started getting like cabin 
          fever. So while she was going to school I was picking up on all the 
          clinical signs of depression, manic depression, schizophrenia.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: So you know 
          what to look out for?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: [laughs] 
          So I know what to look out for.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Self medicate 
          when necessary?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah, with 
          the smoking, I had gotten to the point [where] I was making meatloaf 
          at home so I could take it to work for lunch, and was stirring it in 
          a bowl, and it was <i>obviously</i> too small, with oatmeal, and hamburger 
          and onions and stuff. And this one particular chunk fell out like for 
          the third time, and I took the whole bowl, like two pounds of hamburger, 
          and threw it across the room. Smashed it against the wall. <b>Age of 
          Empires</b>...I've broken two CDs of that already. Fucking game wouldn't 
          let me win, so I hit the CD thing, took it, and threw it across the 
          room. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: I can't picture 
          you flinging a CD across the room.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I get real 
          childish. Temper tantrum, is what it is. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: That is interesting. 
          </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: And then 
          one Saturday night about three weeks ago, was just drinking beers at 
          home, just got up, put on my pants, went out to the store, [and] bought 
          a pack of cigarettes. Without even thinking. This is it, I’m smoking.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You plan on 
          quitting again?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I hope so. 
          I almost thought today I'd do it -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: - and here we 
          are.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I need a 
          couple of days. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: So how long 
          did crunch time last for <b>Sin</b>?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Too long, 
          and this is always the way it happens in games, is that you're constantly 
          putting new stuff in. The last third of the game is definitely crunch 
          time, when you think you're in the finish. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: The last <i>third</i> 
          of the game? You've been at it for what, like 20 months?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Well think 
          about it, we were supposed to release what, in the early part of this 
          year. So, at that point, or right before that point, we were thinking, 
          'okay, hit the guns, we gotta go, hit the back burner.' And then something 
          happened, like the <b>Quake 2</b> code was late. Something happened.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: I was going 
          to say, there must have been a huge set back in there somewhere.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: A <i>real</i> 
          big set back. I think that's probably what killed us most. Because there 
          was a lull for about three months. In fact, I had just quit smoking 
          back in January. So there was this lull for about three months, where 
          the programmers didn't want to work on it, because they knew they were 
          waiting for Quake 2 code. And I’m sitting here with levels that I’ve 
          got to try and get done for E3, or whatever minor deadlines there are, 
          and I just flipped out. All the programmers were over looking at the 
          new office space, I went over there, and was just maniacally screaming, 
          'what are you guys doing in here we got programming to do, you're sitting 
          in here looking at new office space' and they were like, 'suuure <b>Levelord</b>'.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: [laughs] I meant 
          to ask you about that when we were talking about the name. Because you 
          are one of a few people, and I kind of tend to do this, which is just 
          go by '<b>Blue</b>,' and certain people like yourself and Zoid, have 
          actually gone to the point of like, 'just don't even call me by my given 
          name.' Is that to avoid stalkers and stuff?</font> 
        <p> 
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah, well 
          I doubt that it'll ever get that big, although it could, who knows. 
          No, for me it's professional. Like when I’m with you and we're talking, 
          Richard is my name, but when I’m like online, or doing anything, I want 
          to be known professionally [as <b>Levelord</b>]. Remember when you were 
          a kid, and I was a kid on the east coast, we all had nick names. I'm 
          not sure why, but it gave you a different kind of...like the Indians 
          have an animal name. I can talk about The <b>Levelord</b>, and not sound 
          quite so egotistical. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Unless you do 
          it that way in the third person.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: [Laughs]</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: So you haven't 
          had any stalking incidents?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: No...has 
          anybody? Have you had any?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: I think by now 
          you should have...but I guess not.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: The one 
          I'm truly worried about, is not right now, but five years from now, 
          some bible belt parent, saying, 'my kid is mentally disturbed because 
          of your game.'</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You think that's 
          a factor? People get mentally disturbed by these games?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: The best 
          analogy I use is the stairway giving you the heart attack. No, no...it's 
          the lifetime of eating pizzas and smoking and drinking -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: So that kid 
          up on the roof with a sniper rifle isn't due to -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: He would 
          have found something else to further his dementia. I know for me personally, 
          it's definitely a release. When I go in a deathmatch...I feel better 
          afterwards. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You do deathmatch.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Okay, I 
          work. Playtesting. I am <i>lousy</i> so I don't -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You <i>said</i> 
          that, but I'm thinking it's one of those things where you're setting 
          everybody up.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I'm really...I’m 
          so bad I’m proud.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: How can you 
          be so bad when you've been doing this for -</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Oh, I’ve 
          got a funky keyboard configuration I refuse [to change]. I still don't 
          know how to touch type.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Neither do I.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: I was a 
          software engineer. Since 1977 I’ve been with computers, and I still 
          don't know how to type. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You worked with 
          computers in '77?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah, it 
          was <i>hard</i>. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You were in 
          the Military, right?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Doing like radar, 
          and sonar?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Sonar. Like 
          remember the guy on Red October that was the guy with the bald cap that 
          was watching the screen in the submarine...it's not sending out a ping, 
          it's listening to sounds like your ear does. But I was on the land. 
          On an island. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Listening for 
          submarine pickups?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: You ever find 
          any?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Oh yeah.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Those cold war 
          days? You ever go on like red alert and almost press the button and 
          stuff?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Defcon 3, 
          I forget if they go up or down, but if we were like two notches up, 
          they'd launch a nuclear type submarine, and we had no idea what it was. 
          We'd get this unidentifiable signal, and we wouldn't know if it was 
          Soviet, and we'd have admirals coming in...yeah, it was real cool.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: Now that'll 
          get you smoking.</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Oh, I loved 
          that. </font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Blue</b>: [laughs] Man, 
          makes this all seem kind of dull in comparison, doesn't it?</font></p>
        <p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Levelord</b>: Yeah, doesn't 
          it?</font></p>
        <p align="RIGHT">&nbsp;</p>
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    <td><i><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-2"><b>Credits:</b> 
      Illustration &copy; 1998 Mike Sanzone. This interview is &copy; 1998 Stephen 
      Heaslip and Richard Gray. All other content is &copy; 1998 <a target="_self" href="http://www.loonyboi.com">loonyboi 
      productions</a>. Unauthorized reproduction is totally for squares, daddy-o.</font></i></td>
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