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Topic review (newest first)

Mopey bloke
Yesterday 15:03:41

Darkplaces usually doesn't work too well for things not made for vanilla Quake or specifically for it.

hemebond
Yesterday 12:43:07

Still on the start map (damn train guards) but some neat stuff so far. Lots of low-hanging fruit for optimisation and fixes too.

(played using darkplaces-linux-x86_64-sdl-20180412 but not sure what the dp_textures is for, since, at least in the start map, things look the same with or without)

Johnny Law
2022-02-07 17:45:06

Yeah Ironwail can run these maps pretty darn fast in most cases. It's got some issues on my old video card that only has 1 GB of VRAM, as discussed here: https://github.com/andrei-drexler/ironwail/issues/35

Johnny Law
2022-02-01 01:14:15

Welp, I finished! Quite a ride. :-) You're kinda crazy for trying some of these things but I like that.

BTW I did run across a few more maps with no assigned map name, and at least one map that spews a lot of error messages in the console (about entities having no spawn function) when it starts up.

Also, I'm not sure if this is something you can fix in AD, but: you have several specially-named "key" items but after you pick them up they just have a generic name in the AD key inventory like "Arcane Key 3".


The issue of getting stuck on map progression is still a tough one to figure out. I won't beat this into the ground but let me mention a few more cases.

The prybar to exit Crossroads, for example, was a little bit of a head scratcher. There seemed to be two actual exit gates from the map, but it didn't work on either one of those. The rock that it did work on was kind of un-special-looking, and if we're talking about "what would be the realistic thing to do" then just ducking under the fallen tree would be that. :-)

There was also another map (the gorge I think) that required climbing on a particular vine texture to progress, when that had not been a thing in any of the maps up until then.

Opening the gate to the gold key in the priory had me stuck for a while too, I'd have similar comments here as I did about the gold key in clovelly.

In the end I did get through everything so it's not that bad :-) but progression-blockers can kill the pacing.


Anyway. I'm focussing on some problems here since that's probably more useful at this stage of development. I do want to make sure though to give you kudos for making some large-scale environments that are entertaining to look at and run around in rather than "just being big". Also the profusion of vehicles (and similar moving objects like drop pods) contributes to a fun "show off" kind of atmosphere, like a mission pack back in the day when they had to demonstrate some new wacky features above and beyond the base game.

I think this has the potential to be a real cult-classic release. Obviously some folks will not be a fan of the gameplay style/pace, or unable to overlook any performance issues, and that's fine. But it will hit some other high points that not many (or any) other releases do.

Random comment #1: Using the widowmaker as a flak gun against clouds of flying skulls is pretty sweet.

Random comment #2: I wonder whether Ironwail would perform better on some of these maps, compared to Quakespasm-Spiked? I'll give it a try myself (but my Quake system is kind of old anyway so I'm maybe not the best benchmarker). https://github.com/andrei-drexler/ironwail/releases

Balgorg
2022-01-30 15:49:08

In that competition, Quake wins out.
AD has so many great features that it can easily form the base for a large range of possibilities.
I always wanted to do something with Quake.

triple_agent
2022-01-29 22:29:16

Would you not have been better off to do the mod - or the game - in a 'Build' engine?

Balgorg
2022-01-29 21:13:28

Much appreciated Johnny and qazzaq.
Been busy here with work. Ongoing for a while yet.
The small matter of 40,000 trees to plant.
I will be fixing these issues for sure.
Having some other issues will full vis, as you might imagine.
Got five new maps in the go for the two extra episodes.
Desperate to find someone who can get me Nazis into Quake for the episode Far North is to feature a Wolfenstien theme.

Johnny Law
2022-01-27 23:37:25

Finished clovelly and onto crossroad now. One bug to report on both of these maps BTW is they don't have a map name assigned (no message key on the worldspawn), which among other things means that their savegame slots don't have any title.

Couple of bits of feedback about clovelly:

The way to get the gold key is the sort of thing that would normally be a secret in a Quake map, as opposed to a progression-blocker. If you miss that button when you first go through that area, it means you're in for a lot of running-around-a-huge-empty-map later. So, I'd have a similar comment here as I made a few posts back ... with a really free-form structure in a map, if you do have progression bottlenecks then ideally you give the player some way to figure out what to do to get past them.

(To be clear though, this map is a great overall construction.)

Also on the final big-guy fight it's kind of a shame he gets stuck on the upper level and can't meaningfully follow you. Maybe a monsterjump trigger would help that to some extent?

Anyway, I'm still having a really good time with this! Just some ridiculous setpieces. I kind of want to run through all of the wacky stuff I've seen just to let you know I've seen/appreciated it :-) but no time for that now I guess.

Johnny Law
2022-01-26 04:39:42

Another file capitalization issue FYI. The changelevel for island tries to change to "clovelly" but the actual BSP file is named "CLOVELLY".

GenericJohnDoe
2022-01-17 15:59:36

ok, then i should change the QSS in my pack, too...

qazzaq
2022-01-17 15:35:09

It has problem with correct entities spawning.

GenericJohnDoe
2022-01-17 14:54:58

What is up with QSS 14.11.21? What are the downsides to 14.10.21?

triple_agent
2022-01-17 04:19:24
qazzaq wrote:

Sensible remarks, Johnny Law.

Damn, sounds like a classic movie quote.

qazzaq
2022-01-16 18:59:01

Sensible remarks, Johnny Law.

About instant death traps in the maps for my opinion otherwise is good idea. Especially when I was blown away by a waterfall into an underwater tunnel at the end littered with stones and corpses. Without an exit and the ability to swim against the current. I"m just slowly suffocated. It was epic!

All scenario decision by Balgorg should stay, because this is his mod and he is a scriptwriter. We can only hint at obvious miscalculations, which he has the right to ignore.
We have chance to obtain a good game!

"shot from the area looking back upward"
Ha-ha! You didn't thoroughly look for a way out!

Johnny Law
2022-01-16 18:18:54

> How about the bars can be either destroyed as they are, but will automatically break once the sentry is dead?

That would be OK (although the sentry seemed "unkillable" when I was playing) ... but a little odd in a quasi-realistic sort of map. I think having breakable bars as a progression-blocker is OK, it's just that the player needs to know (and be reminded) that bars can be breakable. Especially since that's not a normal Quake thing.

In other AD-based maps I see mappers use a collection of tricks like making the object look breakable by having it be cracked/damaged, and/or having a situation at the beginning of the map where the player is guided to break a similar object, or a situation where a monster breaks a similar object in the player's view, etc. In this case, maybe just having the bars look damaged and with a few pieces lying on the ground ... that might be enough of a hint?

Anyway, I'm still coming back to this periodically. Still having a good time. :-) There's a couple of specific things that bug me so I'll mention them here for you to ponder:

* You've had two or three un-telegraphed instant death traps in the maps so far (crumbling walkway, crushed by falling thing). In general I don't think those are great, and even less so in a giant map where a death could cause someone to lose a lot of progress if they haven't been savescumming.

* It seems like some of the monster instances are bullet sponges. Like, some spiders go down in 1 or 2 shotgun hits, while other identical spiders in the same area will take half a dozen double-shotgun shots or more. Similarly with some of the flying enforcers, some of the skull wizards, etc. It's possible I'm imagining things? but the difference seems pretty clear. (I'm playing on hard difficulty if that matters.) If I'm not crazy, then: IMO this isn't good in Quake-ish combat for a few reasons. 1) some of these monsters don't have any/many flinch reactions so the shooting then just feels kinda bad, 2) it looks weird in cases where things really don't seem they should take that much punishment (e.g. spiders), and 3) if fighting a bunch of monsters at once, you have expectations about how many shots it will take to kill this or that, and when something suddenly DOESN'T die "on time" it yanks you out of your flow.

OK last note for now. In the underwater base there was a moment where I fell down into a sub-floor area (while fighting) and I couldn't find out how to get back up. Actually I'm not even clear on how I fell down there. Here's a shot from the area looking back upward.

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