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Topic review (newest first)

triple_agent
2022-01-22 03:33:28

"The Deep Mod" seems a nice name, but in no way a reference to "The Dark Mod", is it?

triple_agent
2022-01-21 03:18:22

Speaking of ogres shooting clusters of darts, it appeared first in "Quoth", as far as I know.

triple_agent
2022-01-20 14:03:35
basementApe wrote:
mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Hmm, I could always crib the octopus from Hexen 2 I guess? At least the code for it.

There is a 'Quake' mod bringing some octopus creature into the game; the creature shoots paralyzing projectiles, which make the protagonist immobile under water for way too much time. Please do not include that feature.

basementApe wrote:

So the ogre... His chainsaw is even more out of place than his grenade launcher imo. I mean why would you bring a tool meant for cutting down trees down to an underwater base in the first place?

Good point.

Maybe the ogre, could be divided between two other functional pieces: a melee piece and a shooting piece. When it comes to melee, few other creatures stand out to me as much as the iconic 'Quake 2' berserker. When it comes to the shooting piece, maybe some kind of a turret-guy, a thing essentially low in mobility but high in firepower, perhaps something wall-mounted of sort? The thing could work well underwater. One would early need a rocket launcher to deal with that, I imagine. Nonetheless, you said the ogre is iconic and you want to keep it somehow the way it is, so why not just keep it, but use more sparsely? Eventually, the ogre could represent some absurd traits, a missing link between "Cthulhu" and "Cthulhu-tech".

The ogre - as a fish-man - could still relay solely on shooting spikes, having the melee function disabled.

basementApe
2022-01-20 07:42:02
mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Hmm, I could always crib the octopus from Hexen 2 I guess? At least the code for it.

basementApe
2022-01-20 07:38:59
triple_agent wrote:

I remember that one monster from 'Quake 2', which stood out to me. It was known as the 'Medic', due to apparent ability to resurrect other opponents. It made haunting sound when engaging in a combat with protagonist and was armed with hyperblaster, if I remember correctly. Pretty much I thought the monster was tougher than it really was, but all things put together, it was a representative piece of Strogg.

EDIT:

I just watched a 'YT' vid of monster infighting in 'Quake 2' and found an interesting remark in the comments:

what if medic and let's say gunner get into a fight , and medic wins.. does he resurrect the gunner or what?

The medic will resurrect the monster it killed and then it will attack the monster it just resurrected, since it was the original target it was attacking.

I guess in 'Quake', the "Copper" mod puts limits on certain erratic game mechanics, such as monster will not chase target indefinitely, if it cannot successfully reach the target for like ten or fifteen seconds, as well as, once the monster is considered pacified in effect of infighting, the victor will find another target - at least that was the case against zombies, as far as I remember from the "readme".

I've had a look at that code. Wouldn't be hard to make a monster forget about its enemy for any reason so this is definitely doable. I have something like it in mind for one of the new monsters.

basementApe
2022-01-20 07:35:57
triple_agent wrote:

Speaking of 'Quake 2' ents, I remember that this map had a functional "Grunt" model. I would change the attack to something else in it, maybe - or maybe not? Even though I see you do not use 'Quake 2' monster entities in your mod; just artifacts, maybe you could look into it.

For the ogres in your map, I find it yet somewhat awkward that creatures of the abyss - the fish-ogres - shoot grenades. Maybe you should make them fire clusters of spikes, which would be more climatic?

Andrew wrote:

And you can also try to make these amphibious ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots but more often as an enforcer. Or replace the grenade model with a green ball of slime like in Arcane Dimensions, which also exploded.

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy. (:-P)

I thought about changing the standard enemies and I haven't ruled it out. I feel like the Q1 monsters are a bit like the pieces in chess though. They all have a function and usage, and they've kinda been designed to complement each other, at least to a degree. So I feel I need to be a bit careful so I don't upset the clockwork :P

So the ogre... His chainsaw is even more out of place than his grenade launcher imo. I mean why would you bring a tool meant for cutting down trees down to an underwater base in the first place? So I thought I'd just ditch him altogether. But nah. He's too iconic, and too useful gameplay-wise, to leave out. I'll see about trying to make him fit in better somehow.

The knights have to go though. Definitely. They have no business running around in an aquatic setting. So I thought about adding a couple of new monsters to take their place mechanically. A Lovecraftian fish-people kind of deal is what I have in mind.

triple_agent
2022-01-20 03:05:59
mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Excellent idea, we need more of that good stuff!

The sharks already are incredible and the artistic value of distinct shark shape, sweeping as a looming shadow beyond the reinforced glass, is supreme. That is what we need to address - the artistic value of marine world.

Further question, is the logistics of protagonist interaction with that marine world - is it interactable or only for show? The sharks, are interactable; they are a valid opponent, deadlier than the fiends effectively. What about the speculative rest; should it be likewise?

EDIT:

Not all kinds of oceanic lifeforms dwell in the same waters, though, so we need to make sure it ultimately does make sense to mix some stuff together. All in all, lots of small fish seem universal.

mastema88
2022-01-20 02:07:31

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

triple_agent
2022-01-19 15:46:08

I remember that one monster from 'Quake 2', which stood out to me. It was known as the 'Medic', due to apparent ability to resurrect other opponents. It made haunting sound when engaging in a combat with protagonist and was armed with hyperblaster, if I remember correctly. Pretty much I thought the monster was tougher than it really was, but all things put together, it was a representative piece of Strogg.

EDIT:

I just watched a 'YT' vid of monster infighting in 'Quake 2' and found an interesting remark in the comments:

what if medic and let's say gunner get into a fight , and medic wins.. does he resurrect the gunner or what?

The medic will resurrect the monster it killed and then it will attack the monster it just resurrected, since it was the original target it was attacking.

I guess in 'Quake', the "Copper" mod puts limits on certain erratic game mechanics, such as monster will not chase target indefinitely, if it cannot successfully reach the target for like ten or fifteen seconds, as well as, once the monster is considered pacified in effect of infighting, the victor will find another target - at least that was the case against zombies, as far as I remember from the "readme".

triple_agent
2022-01-15 15:40:28
Andrew wrote:

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy.

Same with me - but I think it is okay to tell how does one imagine something; it is up to developer to estimate whether the thing is feasible.

Andrew wrote:

ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots

Do the zombies not already shoot green clots of sort?

Andrew
2022-01-15 09:07:53

And you can also try to make these amphibious ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots but more often as an enforcer. Or replace the grenade model with a green ball of slime like in Arcane Dimensions, which also exploded.

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy. (:-P)

triple_agent
2022-01-15 03:48:25

Speaking of 'Quake 2' ents, I remember that this map had a functional "Grunt" model. I would change the attack to something else in it, maybe - or maybe not? Even though I see you do not use 'Quake 2' monster entities in your mod; just artifacts, maybe you could look into it.

For the ogres in your map, I find it yet somewhat awkward that creatures of the abyss - the fish-ogres - shoot grenades. Maybe you should make them fire clusters of spikes, which would be more climatic?

triple_agent
2022-01-14 15:36:33

You are welcome. I also wanted to point out that I like the recycled 'Quake 2' assets, like the tech-table visible early in the game. I mean, the table as an entity is your invention but what is on this table, comes from 'Quake 2'.

basementApe
2022-01-14 15:26:59

Hmm I went back and tried it out in Q2. Yep, three ticks and boom! Makes sense and makes the grenade tossing ability more interesting for sure. Also noticed the splash radius is somewhat larger. I should be able to add this without too much hassle.

The blaster, yea not sure what else I can do with it tbh. What I've done so far is do a pre-fire hitscan to check distance to the nearest obstacle and then subtly adjust the angle by distance so the impact point lines up nicely with the crosshair. But up close it's not gonna be enough. It's kind of an inherent problem with having the weapons to the side of the viewpoint instead of dead-center I think. Q2 also has this problem from what I can tell.

I know the spot you're talking about, right before the zombie corridor right? Forgot about that one earlier, fixed now.

And hey man, I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this feedback. It's a big help!

triple_agent
2022-01-13 15:47:39

Originally, grenade "cooking" had a distinct ticking sound to it - and it was relevant in 'Quake 2', since you had few tick sounds to throw the grenade, otherwise on the fifth tick or so, it exploded on you.

The blaster is still wonky in terms of aim; especially visible in close proximity.

BTW:

When travelling between installation wings through the underwater sections - bypassing the flooded corridor - the water surface touching the sliding floor-watergates, gives an impression of Z-fighting.

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