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Topic review (newest first)

triple_agent
2021-11-06 18:38:57

Speaking of the 'Quake 2' enemy rooster, I think that the biggest disappointment, was the Tank. It was a bullet sponge, but practically speaking, in the way of attacking, it was too anemic and somehow formulaic, to be effective. In my opinion, the very notion that it could not carry out simultaneous attacks from two or more weapons - out of three, that it was equipped with - was a remark of great limitation, imposed on it.

Machinegun attack, with spread fire, was faulty at making impact against solitary opponent. Rocket fire, once initiated, was not able to change or follow target, effectively freezing the Tank, when in the open - as far as I remember. The hyperblaster attack, was only sensible one - or was it?

triple_agent
2021-11-04 07:40:21
basementApe wrote:

Yeah the blaster is meant to be like the axe: Better than nothing, but not by much.

Axe, had some style to it; even though the lack of sound effect, was killing it - until "Copper".

Good choice with the "Copper", by the way.

The blaster alone, is kind of meh, but I understand, it is a ranged weapon, exactly better than nothing. I miss some satisfying close combat reaction, though, in your set. Maybe some kind of taser, would do, bound to a quick-use?

You forgot about one weapon from 'Quake 2' - the hand grenades! Yeah, it kind of double-functions the howitzer, while effectively being sub-par in comparison; but it was there, with own style.

basementApe wrote:

Q2 shotgun is more like the Doom shotgun in terms of power so I feel like it might be a bit much for a staple weapon. Maybe I'll nerf it just a little bit.

It would be good if the shotgun, killed a grunt in one hit. 'Quake' combat, is too grindy, in my opinion. Unless you want to keep it that way - it is also fine, for old timers.

basementApe
2021-11-03 03:15:12
triple_agent wrote:

@'basementApe', I see you put an "autoexec.cfg" in your mod data. I suggest you to turn it into an "quake.rc" file, which does take some extra definitions to be made, but in the end, the "autoexec.cfg", is meant to represent the user tweaks and if you bring your game definitions as an "autoexec.cfg", then your options, will possibly nullify the user options; there is a collision.

Yep, autoexec.cfg isn't a very good solution. FTEQW and Kex just seem to ignore it altogether so I'm gonna look into what I can do with quake.rc.

triple_agent wrote:

I would tone it down even further. In my opinion, it is not a fun gun to use. It is just not a good choice, the way I see it, in the way of design. But I think it is nice you added it as a staple gun. Even though, regular shotgun, is the best.

Since I see you have personalized the weapon rooster for different models, depending on whether the model, comes from original 'Quake' or 'Quake 2', I would speculate, that the next step, is to truly personalize the weapon rooster, between the four available models, altogether. I do not think it is very practical, though, as it puts your mod, on a rather quirky trajectory, minding 'Quake' priorities. But it could be interesting.

...

Dumb me, you talk about the skins, not the models. Correct: the skins, do alter the loadout. I think it is superfluous, quite unreadable to the player. The skin selection, is rather tricky, unintuitive, with the controls given. I think you need to make it more basic - more simple and accessible. Maybe just streamline it.

I'm not reeeally a fan of what I did there tbh. It seemed like a good idea at the time to give players some variety, but it probably does more harm than good for mappers who want control over what players are given and when. So maybe I'll just go back to giving everyone the standard shotgun. Only problem is the Q2 shotgun is more like the Doom shotgun in terms of power so I feel like it might be a bit much for a staple weapon. Maybe I'll nerf it just a little bit.

On mapping, I forgot to add a couple of functions to give mappers full control over what weapons they can place in a level. Right now thunderbolts and sshotguns get converted to whatever weapon Q2 players *don't* have in their inventory, which is good for old maps, but not so good for new maps. So that's gonna get added in the next release for sure.

triple_agent wrote:

The blaster itself, is rather unsatisfying. I perfectly understand, it is not meant to be any staple weapon, but it could use some modding. Maybe it should be chargeable to a triple-power bolt, like the blaster in 'Quake 4'? I would add an overload risk, like with 'BFG' in 'Doom 3', so that running around with a charged weapon, was not very handy.

It would be good if you could suggest some comprehensible test-map for your mod; a map that would organically encourage to discover the most vital mod features, properly emphasized.

Yeah the blaster is meant to be like the axe: Better than nothing, but not by much.

The blaster actually does have some uses, like you can snipe faraway enemies with it to save on ammo. Kinda tedious but hey, it's an option.

HAL9000
2021-11-02 18:54:43
basementApe wrote:

Hey, I missed this somehow!
@HAL9000:
That looks very cool! Well done so far, I look forward to seeing more. You're using v1.12, right?

Yes I'm using 112 as a base version

triple_agent
2021-10-30 13:23:53

@'basementApe', I see you put an "autoexec.cfg" in your mod data. I suggest you to turn it into an "quake.rc" file, which does take some extra definitions to be made, but in the end, the "autoexec.cfg", is meant to represent the user tweaks and if you bring your game definitions as an "autoexec.cfg", then your options, will possibly nullify the user options; there is a collision.

My particular "autoexec.cfg", includes:

	// movement dynamics
+mlook
cl_alwaysrun "1"
cl_upspeed "350"	// resurfacing speed when submerged, value taken after "cl_sidespeed"

	// field of view
fov "105"

	// aiming assistance
sv_aim "1"	// default value is "0.93", value "1" means minimum engine assistance
crosshair "1"
scr_crosshairscale "1.5"	// escalate to increase crosshair image size

	// onscreen feedback
scr_showfps "0"
scr_conspeed "3000"	// speed of engine console manifestation
scr_printspeed "16"	// speed of final credits roll
scr_centertime "4.5"	// lasting of narrative feedback
con_notifytime "1.5"	// lasting of engine feedback

	// aesthetic, particle shape - square particles
r_particles "2"

Beyond that, the screenshot bindings, but I see you have a likewise option already. // it does not work.

I guess my way out for now, is to manually merge the "autoexec" file contents.

NEXT:

basementApe wrote:

Yeah, I went a bit overboard with the machinegun climb in earlier versions. It's been toned down for v1.12.

I would tone it down even further. In my opinion, it is not a fun gun to use. It is just not a good choice, the way I see it, in the way of design. But I think it is nice you added it as a staple gun. Even though, regular shotgun, is the best.

Since I see you have personalized the weapon rooster for different models, depending on whether the model, comes from original 'Quake' or 'Quake 2', I would speculate, that the next step, is to truly personalize the weapon rooster, between the four available models, altogether. I do not think it is very practical, though, as it puts your mod, on a rather quirky trajectory, minding 'Quake' priorities. But it could be interesting.

___CUT:

I just saw this in the changelog for version "1.12":

Player skins now come with different loadouts for the Q2 marines. Skin #1 gives a machinegun with 50 bullets, skin #2 a yellow armor, and skin #3 gives you nothing but the blaster.

Well then, the question is, balance. Unless, the character selection screen, is a crypto difficulty mode setup. If the declared, was the case; but I did notice only the machinegun option, when it comes to all the 'Quake 2' characters.

EDIT:

Dumb me, you talk about the skins, not the models. Correct: the skins, do alter the loadout. I think it is superfluous, quite unreadable to the player. The skin selection, is rather tricky, unintuitive, with the controls given. I think you need to make it more basic - more simple and accessible. Maybe just streamline it.

___/CUT

The blaster itself, is rather unsatisfying. I perfectly understand, it is not meant to be any staple weapon, but it could use some modding. Maybe it should be chargeable to a triple-power bolt, like the blaster in 'Quake 4'? I would add an overload risk, like with 'BFG' in 'Doom 3', so that running around with a charged weapon, was not very handy.

It would be good if you could suggest some comprehensible test-map for your mod; a map that would organically encourage to discover the most vital mod features, properly emphasized.

basementApe
2021-10-30 09:27:28

Hey, I missed this somehow!

@HAL9000:
That looks very cool! Well done so far, I look forward to seeing more. You're using v1.12, right?

@triple_agent:
Yeah, I went a bit overboard with the machinegun climb in earlier versions. It's been toned down for v1.12.

Mod DB link here:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/q2m-quake-2- … s/q2m-v112

There are a couple of things I meant to include in v1.12 but forgot, namely functions to add bfg and railgun pickups to custom maps. Right now you can only place lightning guns and the mod then automatically converts them based on what's in the player's inventory, which isn't really ideal. So there's gonna be a v1.13 with this support soon. @HAL9000: If you need, I can help you add it for the new q2 guys as well.

triple_agent
2021-10-27 04:59:18

Speaking of the 'Quake 2' weapon rooster, I think the machinegun, had ridiculous recoil, making it eventually an annoying gun to use; in many ways inferior to the chaingun - which, in turn, offered both, a steady fire, as well as an all-out mode, while employing samewise ammo type as the machinegun.

HAL9000
2021-10-26 05:39:34
triple_agent wrote:

Looks promising, @'HAL9000'. I would stick with the original, sinister dog models, for what I saw.

Yeah, that Zaero Hound looks weird. I will try several other solutions as well to see what is the best dog replacement.

triple_agent
2021-10-26 04:30:52

Looks promising, @'HAL9000'. I would stick with the original, sinister dog models, for what I saw.

HAL9000
2021-10-25 23:45:35

I'm working on optional Q2 monster addon for this mod.

Monsters will behave just like vanilla Quake1 monsters (more or less)
They are basically "reskin/remodel" with some QC code tweaks (progs.dat) and model animation tweaks (mdl/md5)
Models are not 1:1 batch conversion from Q2 to Q1, I've added MD5 support for KEXQuake rerelease, to properly load new models (because of the HD model switch in the options). Tested with VKquake, Quakespasm and KEXQuake

Here is a short preview:
Q2Test Models

Here is Youtube video link (KexQuake):
https://youtu.be/POllEy6Ft98


I would like to hear some feedback, suggestions and ideas.
I will release first version as Q2M pak1.pak after I convert all enemies

triple_agent
2021-10-15 17:35:39
basementApe wrote:

The strogg monsters just don't fit into the general gothy Lovecraft-esque atmosphere of Quake all that well I think.

However, it would definitely be interesting to have more sci-fi maps with some additional strogg fellas running around.

So far I've tried to strike a good balance between authentic Q2 behavior and balance against the Q1 arsenal.

I do not believe you will "port" the experience of 'Quake 2' into the original 'Quake', unless you are willing to overdo yourself, probably for an insufficient result. What is feasible, though, is to build a new, customized experience. That is why, I am against ideological perspective on the notion of porting 'Quake 2' weapons into 'Quake'. In other terms, I think it is perfectly fine to just choose what weapons you want and what weapons do port easily, simply throwing away those that do not fit well, for contextual or technological reasons.

I believe the weapons, do not necessarily have to follow even the rule of traditional 'id' rooster continuum; where you go from a pistol to a shotgun, then to a machinegun, then to a rocket launcher, then to a special weapon and then to a mobile version of massive guillotine. You can easily tweak that order. In the end, it is up to how the map is constructed against available resources and priorities. If we assume energy cells are common, the hyperblaster, could become a new machinegun - if to tweak the power output it gives. Notwithstanding, it is not about doing this or that, it is about maintaining flexibility in perspective.

EDIT:

The notion of making the hyperblaster, an upgraded machinegun equivalent, is not new - 'Quake 4', already did that. Even though 'Quake 4', in my opinion, is by all means a very correct game, I am rather unconvinced, that we should look up to it, for inspiration. The inspiration, essentially speaking, is what it seems to be wanting the most.

By the way, this entire thread should be moved to the "mods" forum section.

NEXT:

Having given it a better look, the hyperblaster itself, works kind of janky. I also think it is unnecessary to put a 'Quake' marine in the model rooster, among the 'Quake 2' characters. Unless, you want to mix original 'Quake' weaponry, into the arsenal of 'Quake 2' that you bring in, as well. There is difference, the way I feel about it.

What if to remove all automatic weaponry from the game, altogether - at least speaking of those weapons, wielded by the protagonist? What I believe in regards to combat in 'Quake', is that the combat, needs to have certain rhythm to it - combined with adequate enemy behavior patterns. It results in certain kind of dance - the dance of 'Quake' combat. Continuous fire weapons, somewhat break that.

Incorrect enemy behavior patterns, can also break that. In 'Quake 2', there was this pattern, according to which, some antagonists, being under fire from a hyperblaster, would duck. It was terrible; made no sense altogether - handicapped their combat ability, questioned their robotic appeal and ultimately made them easy targets; because they, would usually duck in the open, sitting there like some dumb birds.

What I like about your mod, is that the 'Quake 2' weapon rooster, is made a bit more powerful, as compared to the original, rendering the combat, simply less tedious and thus the gameplay, that bit more dynamic.

I do feel like the combat in original 'Quake', is a little bit grindy.

basementApe
2021-10-15 12:05:46
triple_agent wrote:

From the two choices, I think it is better to have a fluently functioning, humble mod - than to have a rich and overflowing, but janky mod.

I definitely agree with this. I have a lot of love for Quake 2 (I mean obviously) but in addition to the complexity and workload issues there's another thing that makes me hesitant about including too much Q2 stuff into Quake. The strogg monsters just don't fit into the general gothy Lovecraft-esque atmosphere of Quake all that well I think.

However, it would definitely be interesting to have more sci-fi maps with some additional strogg fellas running around. I might still do it actually. Just not now :P Gotta get Q2M properly polished first. There's a very nasty bug in there right now that made me have to disable mouse-wheel functionality altogether!

triple_agent wrote:

Even though one could expect that - who says you need to transfer all of 'Quake 2' weaponry into the matrix of original 'Quake'? Functional balance, is more important, I think.

If you dare, you could experiment a bit, change priority of some guns.

What about 'Quake 2' artifacts, though?

Hmm... how do you mean? Re-balance the weapons? So far I've tried to strike a good balance between authentic Q2 behavior and balance against the Q1 arsenal.

Anyways, as mentioned I just fixed, or well circumvented, a very bad bug. Check out the original post for the new download link.

triple_agent
2021-10-14 18:15:46

From the two choices, I think it is better to have a fluently functioning, humble mod - than to have a rich and overflowing, but janky mod.

Even though one could expect that - who says you need to transfer all of 'Quake 2' weaponry into the matrix of original 'Quake'? Functional balance, is more important, I think.

If you dare, you could experiment a bit, change priority of some guns.

What about 'Quake 2' artifacts, though?

basementApe
2021-10-14 16:18:06

Version v1.1 is out! Check the original post for more info.

basementApe
2021-10-12 08:07:54

Hey Hal9000, that looks pretty cool! And thanks for the kind words as well :)

I'm probably not gonna try to add Q2 monsters to Quake. It would be a fun challenge, but it would also be a whole lot of work, and I already have several other things I wanna do with Quake and limited time to do them so..

In other news, I got v1.1 pretty much finished! Just need to sort out a couple of minor bugs before I release the final version with the source code. In the meantime, here's the almost finished beta.This is a massive update that fixes and improves a whole bunch of things so you'll definitely wanna upgrade to this one:

Download:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TkfZLM … sp=sharing

Couple of problems.

1: The runes don't show up on the HUD for some weird reason. The game itself registers what runes you've picked up just fine. It'll also save and load the runes so you can progress to Shub's level no problem. It's just the HUD won't display them. Not sure what's going on there or how to fix it, so this one might never get fixed unless anybody else has any ideas.

2: In multiplayer, all players will share the same skin index. So all players can use individual models, they just can't use individual skins right now. If I can't figure this one out or if it's some kind of engine limitation that forbids different skins on different players then that's fine. I can circumvent it by just using different player models for each skin instead.


Release Notes v1.1b:

- Full Coop & Deathmatch support!

- New HUD.

- Much improved marine select screen: No shaky camera movement. No clipping through walls and other objects. No acid-trip visions of floating eyes and spinning marines all over the place in coop/deathmatch.

- Changed marine-select menu to display the right weapon/ammo-loadout for Q1 and Q2.

- Added 2 new skins for each player model (except Ranger). Tap a number key once to select a player, and again to select a different skin.

- Fixed wrong weapon model being assigned in UdOb Shub-level.

- Made model assignments more airtight in general.

- Fixed backpacks giving the wrong amount of armor and deducting cells down to 100 if the player's  ammo was maxed out.

- Improved railgun particle effect.

- Fixed railgun effect not showing up for other players in coop/deathmatch.

- Fixed orientation for the BFG blast-sphere sprite.

- Decreased the hyperblaster's recovery time.

- A bunch of other small tweaks, improvements and bugfixes.

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