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#1 2022-01-01 16:43:13

Balgorg
Member

Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Lots of fixes. Download this for playtesting instead of the older version.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/c05d3axm … 2.zip/file

#2 2022-01-01 17:51:53

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Still working only with QSS?

#3 2022-01-02 09:38:03

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Yes only tested on QSS. It does run on DP but I have not yet converted all my alpha mips into tga's. Not sure how you replace the pink alpha channel with a 32  bit alpha channel? Using gimp I am sure there's a way.

#4 2022-01-02 09:55:31

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Your error you had with something about pak file size. You could possibly unpack the packfile keeping all the folder structure. Then remove the guilty pak file and see what happens. Everything should still work unpacked in this way.
I remember Kingpin came as a set of directories, rather than with pak files, you could have a good dig around inside.

#5 2022-01-02 16:08:48

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Why would you not make your mod compatible with basic "Quakespasm" in the first place? That is the safest way to go. "Arcane Dimensions", does work with "Quakespasm", so maybe find out, why your mod, does not.

Balgorg wrote:

Your error you had with something about pak file size.

I do not think the error msg was relevant, but simultaneously, I do not know much about 'Quake' modding, so maybe it was relevant, in the end. Anyhow, I imagine it probably had to do with unsupported features of the mod, like special particles that are enforced, rather than optional. But I saw you have also copied the "quake.rc" of "Arcane Dimensions", so it should have done the job, I guess.

By the way, my Internet, has data cap; maybe you could create a "lite" version of your mod, providing only essential files to work with separately downloaded "Arcane Dimensions" - for the testing purposes - instead of requiring to re-download entire "Arcane Dimensions" with each update of yours.

Technically speaking, if you create "pak4.pak"* that contains the exact pathway and data pattern, which already is defined in earlier "pak" files, the "pak" with higher number, should override those with lower numbers, therefore it is useless to redistribute entire modified deal of original data, instead of providing only a superstructure or an addon to it. That is, at least, how it worked in some newer 'idTech' engines, but again, I know little of 'Tech1'.

* Assuming the original folder or the folder of reference, does not include "pak4.pak" or any file of such kind, described with a rank equal to or higher than "4", unless those files are proven irrelevant to the modified data.

Although, with the final product, it is probably useful to release an all-inclusive version; a lot of people may find it complicated to launch a game with multiple databases, like two mods working one on top of the other. Nevertheless, if the mods are meant compatible, like yours and the "Arcane Dimensions" and the data is properly described, it should be enough to just toss your mod inside the "Arcane Dimensions" folder.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-03 03:42:47)

#6 2022-01-03 09:24:09

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

The aim of the mod is to push the limits of the Quake engine and unfortunately standard QS has rather anoying limits. I took the cue from Spike's readme for QSS and decided to push to almost breaking point. The reason is it has allowed me to create some very unique maps for Quake.
Try it and then I might consider the other points you make. You can't really judge something you haven't tried.

As a mapper my main concern is to get the map design right. For the combat to flow, and to create a real believable world full of alternate pathways, harmonic soundscape, and a feel of its own.
At this early stage it's about making sure it works for everybody on QSS and that the game can be completed from start to finish without huge errors or messed up map design.
Pandering to the needs of engine specific gamers is not a priority. On the pc we can switch and swap engines as we please. It's part of the fun of Quake and the modding scene.

I am completely new to this. My first ever maps and mod.

Why do I feel like I am being bullied ?

Last edited by Balgorg (2022-01-03 09:26:12)

#7 2022-01-03 12:59:04

qazzaq
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@Balgorg
First of all Your mod is awesome.
As You newbie at this community I want to tell You triple_agent has a positive reputation here. I can't even imagine who he is, but he can give decent advice. When people ask you and give you advice, it means they like your work.
Since mod is beta (has 0.2 version) and requires a lot of improvements, You must be prepared for reviews from betatesters.
Mod required for 2Gb of heapsize and
gl_farclip 128000
in autoexec for proper skybox visibility.

Upd:
please keep all updates in one thread otherwise we will lost something.

P.S.: Such huge maps must be filled with a lot of secrets. And they exist here and there but has not trigger secrets. Maps are interesting to replay if they have undiscovered secrets and they have room to exploration.

Last edited by qazzaq (2022-01-03 13:08:34)

#8 2022-01-03 15:45:08

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@quazzaq

Thankyou.

It's good to have some feedback.
But so far I have had very little of it. Possibly the time of year?

What matters at this stage for me is to
get the gameplay elements finalized. Which, if I don't get to hear from people, I will have to go ahead with the full vis on the maps, which will take about two weeks to complete. It's important to gain feedback so I can move forward.

The specifics of which engine it will work on are 'by the by', because it's made for QSS. Similarly directory stucture, or it's specific packaging are also not important.
I just need feedback from people who have actually played it so I can improve it before it's full release.

So thanks for your advice about secrets.

Personally I have never been a big fan of secrets, not since Half-Life revolutionised the genre. As such my maps are based more upon progression and leans more towards realism than fantasy. But there are a few secrets, some which provide shortcuts, ways round annoying platform sections, or for co-op gameplay, as this is a co-op mod designed for two player co-op (thanks to the great QSS netcode).
Ultimately if the mod is popular I would like to finish the two extra episodes in the hub map, and add a deathmatch arena. Put in some more secrets :-)

#9 2022-01-03 16:18:11

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Balgorg wrote:

realism than fantasy

How do you define realism in gamism?

qazzaq wrote:

triple_agent has a positive reputation here

Even though I have not seen any "reputation" trait around on 'Quaddicted', I guess that I am a local philospher; a dude who asks questions and points directions some people may not like.

I am not very much into actually doing anything, though.

My purpose, is to see the full potential.

For the engines, "Quakespasm" is the primary, contemporary engine, out of which, "vkQuake" and "QSS", emerge. Therefore, compatibility with "Quakespasm", should ideally mean compatibility with both, the "QSS" and the "vkQuake". That is the reason I proposed "Quakespasm" as a point of reference in your compatibility standard, nonetheless - if you feel like working just with "QSS", gives you better workflow, dude, absolutely!

You are right, though, you have not seen much of an actual feedback or bug reports, related to your mod. Maybe you should check out 'Quake Mapping Discord', perhaps?

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-03 16:34:36)

#10 2022-01-03 17:59:51

qazzaq
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

I figured out how to run this mod on QS. Error appearing due to reaching limit of files quantities inside pak for QS.
I extract and remove from mod's pak0.pak my_progs, music and gfx folders and QS runs well with shortcut:
quakespasm.exe -game peril -heapsize 2048000  +sv_protocol 999

and in autoexec:
gl_farclip 128000

Balgorg, it is nesessery to separate AD paks from Your custom stuff and all shall working fine!

Last edited by qazzaq (2022-01-03 19:09:27)

#11 2022-01-03 18:56:20

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@quazzaq

Much appreciated :-)
Is this just therefore a case of reducing the pak file size?
To be honest it doesen't bother me wether it's all packed or unpacked.
Just that it works. I only stuck to keeping a pack and a few folders because i wanted to differentiate between vital content (stuff from AD) and my own stuff, other than the essential sounds that make Peril rich in its soundscape. From my perspective not everyone will like the custom hud colour, conback, and custom sounds for the player, and certain custom monster sounds. I wanted to keep open the option of removing the non critical, and leave it up to the choice of the gamer. Loyalties to Quake and all that.

Thankyou for bothering. It means a lot :-)

Last edited by Balgorg (2022-01-03 18:59:26)

#12 2022-01-04 02:44:41

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Good call, @'qazzaq'!

Following your advice, I have detached the "Arcane Dimensions" and "Peril" mod contents, moving them to separate folders - both parallel to an "id1" directory. Then I run the game with:

'./vkquake.AppImage' -heapsize 2097151 -game base_ad -game peril

Where, "base_ad" is the name of "Arcane Dimensions" folder and respectively likewise with the "Peril".

The "vkQuake" version "1.10.0-beta3" runs "protocol FTE 999" by default.

The mod launched to a start menu, but as soon as I try to choose a new game, it outputs an error:

Host_Error: Model progs/plans.mdl not found

The mod goes that far for me only, when I use original "Arcane Dimensions" data. With the "Peril" version of "pak" files, it trips over the earlier mentioned error.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-04 02:47:39)

#13 2022-01-04 07:13:54

qazzaq
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Obviously QS does not loading both mod simultasiounly as QSS:
quakespasm_spiked.exe -game ad -game Peril -heapsize 2048000
For QS it is needed to have "clean" AD mod inside the Peril folder plus Peril stuff in its paks or subfolders same as it goes with xmasjams:
quakespasm.exe -game Peril -heapsize 2048000   +sv_protocol 999
vkquake.exe -game Peril -heapsize 2048000   +sv_protocol 999

Last edited by qazzaq (2022-01-04 07:15:04)

#14 2022-01-04 09:40:08

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Just to point out that there's a number of custom models and lots of custom sounds added into the pak file, so the pak I have provided is the only one that will work along side peril in the way described above.
I will think on this and will see if I can make a definite separation of Peril and AD so that the two can coexist.
What your saying does make sense. I will download a map-pack and have a look at how they are put together.

#15 2022-01-04 14:23:56

qazzaq
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Running QSS by this way
-game ad -game Peril
allow to save disc space and load Peril mod with user's custom AD stuff and no more.
Other engines still required clean AD mod in the Peril folder.

Well, three days spent to complete mod on hard skill. It is not because it is hard but it is so enormous! And It was a wonderful adventure. Mod is fully playable and let me make a few comments.

Few sound is missing in release:

ambience/wind4.wav
ambience/wind5.wav
bal/bc7_drippy.wav

country level:
level exit tower has detour by the right side leads behind boglords back and allow leaving the map w/o key.

gorge level:
log across the river has no texture of foliage (or fishnet?) I was puzzled how to get to the other side.

level shub:
it would be nice to add trigger hurt into red screaming rift?

I very like the custom alpha textures (You make?) They has horror vibes. Some of Your new textures has useless fullbright pixels. It easily can be fixed with this little tool:
https://github.com/ericwa/defullbright/ … s/tag/v0.2

And finally every map has few missing textures. It obviously easy will be fixed on the next releases.
Also would like to note the excellent sound acting.

#16 2022-01-04 15:07:25

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@Quazzaq

"Well, three days spent to complete mod on hard skill. It is not because it is hard but it is so enormous! And It was a wonderful adventure. Mod is fully playable"

The news I really wanted to hear.
Thankyou for trying it out and for the useful feedback. Will get on with fixing those issues asap.
And weldone for being the first to complete it.

As the designer it's amazing what you don't notice others do!

#17 2022-01-04 17:04:03

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

realism than fantasy

Partially on topic, but not out of context in this conversation; if I were to boil down my current view on "realism in gamism" into one single sentence, it would be: interior design, as integral part of map design. Even though, thinking of realism, one would probably consider gameplay mechanics first, before the map design - when both, in fact, need to be adequate. Fantasy worlds, can have "visceral" combat as well - that is why, the desired effect, is achieved through synergy of cooperating layers.

Notwithstanding, in order not to give false clue; in one another thread, I have pointed out my doubt in the possibilities of 'Tech1' engine, when it comes to achieving any worthwhile "intimate" and natural-based interior design. In other terms, in my view, the 'Tech1', is an engine meant for abstract design.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-05 05:17:18)

#18 2022-01-04 18:46:40

Spirit
Administrator

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Balgorg, you should definitely add some screenshots to encourage people to try it. If you want I can post it to Twitter later, asking for playtesters.

#19 2022-01-05 06:13:16

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

I would not say you hit the melting pot of potential betatesters, trying here on these forums only.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-05 06:31:06)

#20 2022-01-05 08:24:22

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@Spirit

Ok I will do that. Thankyou.
Just not sure how to upload screenshots here ?

To be honest I have been a little cautious over moving forward to quickly because first impressions last and all that.
The maps have not all had a full vis yet.... Takes about 7 hours on the largest of them.

Also a bit concerned about compatability with engines other than QSS, for which this mod was developed and tested. I don't want to get too caught up and inevitably bogged down with trying to sort those kinds of issues out at this stage.

That said, by the end of today I will have all the alpha mips converted for Darkplaces.

#21 2022-01-05 16:51:11

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Darkplaces textures for Peril for testing.
The folder 'Textures' needs to go inside a peril folder within Darkplaces.
They replace the alpha mips with tga's.

Issues so far:

The hud is a bit messed up, possibly because I used alpha mapped .lmp for the hud bar in QSS.

In big maps full of alpha textures, like the forested areas in Gorge, entities dissappear, some flashing in and out of view, others like doors become invisible.

Dp is getting a bit old, but it would be interesting to find solutions on the realy big complex maps. I have never really used DP before, in 2014 I was still using GL Quake from a cloned folder from the 1990's!

So far it still looks like QSS is the engine of choice to run Peril properly.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/mi19yyor … s.zip/file

#22 2022-01-05 18:27:28

triple_agent
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

Balgorg wrote:

Also a bit concerned about compatability with engines other than QSS, for which this mod was developed and tested. I don't want to get too caught up and inevitably bogged down with trying to sort those kinds of issues out at this stage.

Balgorg wrote:

Darkplaces textures for Peril for testing.

When do you think the best time is, then - when everything is done and amassed? I assume you think of "Quakespasm", since apparently the "Darkplaces", is not much of an issue for your mod.

Have you tried what 'qazzaq' recommended, that is to separate the "Arcane Dimensions" and the "Peril" data?

EDIT:

Thinking about it again, I have no agenda in trying to convince you that better degree of compatibility, is good for your mod. If this is a tremendous amount of effort on your part, requiring you to sacrifice your beliefs along the way, then fine, "QSS" alone is a popular enough engine anyway.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-05 19:34:40)

#23 2022-01-05 22:23:56

R.L
Guest

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

#24 2022-01-06 08:56:46

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@TRIPLE

I don't have a set of beliefs that need sacrificing, its just there's 16 huge complex maps that have to be sorted out properly so they can have a full compile, rather than fast.
There's so many thousands of brushes, entities, and textures. And trying to nudge them all towards finalization is a very laborious task alone. With a team maybe engine compatability issues can be alĺocated to someone else, but it's just me.

If you think about how you develop maps and a mod, you start with a set of tools, and you add stuff along the way. As you progress you might swap something out or in depending upon whether it works better or not. As the project develops you inevitably end up with a compilation that is uber complicated and likely to have dependencies upon the specific tools, engine, or whatever.
You then end up with a project that works from beginning to end based upon those dependencies. It's only when you have got everything working as designed can you start searching for an alternative way of running you project.
It's 15 hours a day at the moment just tweaking the gameplay, textures, removing glitches, and endless playtesting.
I do have Peril up and running on Quakespasm, only one map won't work (cravasse) and I spent half of yesterday reconfiguring the whole map in the hope of fixing it for Quakespasm, the map runs fine in QSS and also in DP, so hopefully you will understand that a toolset can render dependencies that are hard to fix, especially for a noob.
For now QSS is the only engine that will run my mod because it was developed on QSS.
You don't put diesel in a petrol engine....

#25 2022-01-06 10:13:26

Balgorg
Member

Re: Peril Mod updated to 0.2

@ Triple

I think what you describe as 'compatability', to me is called engine switching, and if you have followed the development of games that have switched engines part way through you will know that the constraints of the switch can effect the whole developmental process, and can impact upon the release date, often ending up with games full of faults and bugs, which in turn affects the whole reception of the game by the consumer. Think Daikatana!

Peril as I have named it only came about as a lockdown project for my son so we could play coop over a network. It actually turned out way better than we imagined, so I made the choice to make it into a mod to share with others.

We started using Quakespasm and Quoth as the basis, but soon found that we were unable to play and coop using Quakespasm. As the whole point of the project was to play over a network it was great to discover QSS, which worked brilliantly over the network. The co-op elements so far a rather simple, but that's what Peril was originally about. '
Reading Spikes readme I decided to push the engine as far as I could in terms of map size, but not without creating boring emptiness. The challenge was to make use of the space, to cram it full with interesting elements. Hence the rich soundscape, atmospheric setting, involving mission chain, and nifty platform-vehicles.
In the end Peril is not like anything I have played in Quake before.
Quoth was swapped out for AD for obvious reasons.
Hopefully you will now understand why I need playtesters to look at the gameplay content primarily as that's the experience gamers will play and enjoy. Hopefully some will take advantage of the strong co-op play.

Ultimately there's two whole extra episodes of Peril planned, which will take the story further, will develop the mapping style I have, and introduce and enhance the co-op elements further.
But for now I have to go back to work....

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