Quaddicted.com Forum

Spirit

Administrator

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Also - I'm not getting personal.  I didn't call a single person out, I think it's unfair to say that I was being personal.  I also think it's unfair to say that I was being angry.

Sorry, misread the "you" there and assumed you meant me.

There is no issue with mappers being competitive by intent and in consent, mapping competitions are awesome. But what we created here with arbitrary user ratings going into some kind of measure of map "quality" is nonsense. Those ratings only have meaning in a very broad sense (and only if the majority of users is honest) and no one should even care about some decimal places in my opinion.

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Numbers help navigate in the surplus of things; it is a tool to organize reality.

Somewhat like with money, I guess - it is folk wisdom that money does not get one happiness, but on the other hand, shortage of money definitely does not help with becoming more happy in our living conditions, unless one aims to be a saint, which very few people want. Likewise with the ratings.

Therefore, I would not underestimate or ridicule the conflict around the rating system - getting rid of the system, is not going to help either. Much like with money, it is necessary evil and there are people who will try to abuse it.

I believe we do not want to get rid of the people.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-02-24 14:28:50)

h4724

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

User ratings? Where is my viagra?

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

@'Madfox', I believe your main concern is that the criticism you mentioned, came from a guest account, is that right? Even though, guests are unable to rate the maps, as far as I remember. Therefore, is it about possible negativity in the comments section?

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-02-24 04:05:48)

Spirit

Administrator

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

The analogy to money is interesting, if people treat the numeric ratings as some kind of reward or social currency it's problematic if the system is not balanced and perfectly fair. Reducing granularity would remove some incentives for competitiveness on unreasonable levels while still keeping a rough estimation of "popularity".

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

The analogy to money is interesting, if people treat the numeric ratings as some kind of reward or social currency it's problematic if the system is not balanced and perfectly fair. Reducing granularity would remove some incentives for competitiveness on unreasonable levels while still keeping a rough estimation of "popularity".

I say it simply is what it is. It roughly works, therefore I would ask whether the system, is broken, so that it needed to be fixed? There is a broken social situation - sometimes at least, inferring from what different parties say here - but this, is another issue. People make the system framework competitive in the same way as in lack of guns and swords, they pick up sticks and stones to kill one another.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-02-25 03:04:10)

JMP

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Ratings add some context to the review, and I don't know that there are many people who want to have a rating, leave a review and keep their rating private.

Agree w/ this. Sometimes when I comment on a map, my review is mostly critical but I give it a high rating. The message I want to send is, "I think you could improve a few things, but overall it's still a great map." It's harder to convey that sentiment when ratings are hidden.

Last edited by JMP (2022-02-25 01:19:11)

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Ratings add some context to the review, and I don't know that there are many people who want to have a rating, leave a review and keep their rating private.

Agree w/ this. Sometimes when I comment on a map, my review is mostly critical but I give it a high rating. The message I want to send is, "I think you could improve a few things, but overall it's still a great map." It's harder to convey that sentiment when ratings are hidden.

@'JMP', no offense but if your comment does not extend beyond a rating given, what is the point in making a comment? I mean, okay, you could want to show that the user 'JMP', rated the map high or low, but if you exclusively want that, you can simply put the rating you gave, as the content of a comment or a part of that comment; say: "dude, I love your map, I rate it 5/5, but I think you could do better with that lighting" or something. Publicly announcing your rating, should be considered an invitation to discussion, mind that. On the other hand, you could rate the map low but say you rated it high, which yet is another story and I do not see it as a reason good enough why the ratings, should all be declassified arbitrarily for each and everyone.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-02-25 03:08:49)

Madfox

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

@- h4724 : yes I wrote that. Shall I quote that again?

@-TripleAgent : It's not my concern if guests can rate my
maps if they are not logged in. It's about the nonsense they distribute by commenting on maps with not related critism. In this case I just wondered why the guest won' t register, while he was just waiting for an answer to continue his load of mincer stratigy.

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

I just wondered why the guest won' t register, while he was just waiting for an answer to continue his load of mincer stratigy.

Okay, so the guest makes some bullshit account, then moves on to create another account some time later. You see, common mistake is to try fix certain category of problems with a different category of means, such as, an attempt to fix a broken social situation, with systemic means - in result of which, the system, becomes adjusted to people who simply want things go bad. Eventually we end up having two things on the trajectory to failure. On the other hand, if people who want things go bad, start to prevail, those who simply wish to be creative - for example - are going to leave. The question is, will a broken system be very inviting to those who want to be creative, minding there are broken people - so to speak - only waiting for an opportunity to unleash themselves? Looks like sand castles built on ignorance, but perhaps this is the true image of life; if we knew, we would not be here.

'Madfox', I am sorry for your trauma. There is negativity out there, y'know. If you love making maps for 'Quake', please make maps, but find another source of motivation, than other people or their opinion - that is, what I would like to achieve, if I was doing what you do, I think.

Internet is a wonderful thing, but there are certain non-monetary costs one must pay, in order to consume it.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-02-26 01:41:49)

Madfox

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

@-TRiplAgent : I have no trauma, there are lots of positive comments. It is just that ironical fact that someone tries to emulate scorn for reaction,  while I was just making a friendly gesture. Got to take the good with the bad.

Lane Powell

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Personally I'd like to be able to see individual users' ratings, as I see it as a tool for discovery (and I've used user profiles this way on, say, thiefguild.com). Global ratings are useful, of course, but often individuals are more interesting to me than aggregate data.

At the same time, I can see the concerns people have, and have witnessed abuse here and elsewhere in the Quake community. I find it easy to ignore, but I'm also not an active part of the mapping community, so as Markie pointed out, I have less skin in the game.

Mitigating (one type of) abuse by hiding individual ratings is an option, but it's a trade-off. It seems Spirit has decided in favor of hiding them, and I respect that.

Brendy_C

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

For what it's worth, regarding my map Hard Driven, I don't think it was "review bombed" at all :S It's fine if people give maps a 1 or 2, that's what the whole scale is there for. So no beef here!

triple_agent

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

Personally I'd like to be able to see individual users' ratings, as I see it as a tool for discovery (and I've used user profiles this way on, say, thiefguild.com). Global ratings are useful, of course, but often individuals are more interesting to me than aggregate data.

What is the problem with simply asking them about their top-10?

Unless you want to "profile" people and build some psychological models; that is another deal, but that is also the case whether someone wants to be profiled.

EDIT:

Y'know, this could be a thing somewhat in the way of what you talk about - if some users wish to, they could maybe create a top-10 of favorite 'Quake' maps on their profile visiting card; visible after clicking on the profile name. This, again, should only be voluntary. Perhaps there could be place for other info as well.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-03-01 02:39:12)

Lane Powell

Member

Re: User ratings, should they be public or hidden?

@triple_agent: yeah, but it's easier if I don't have to. :P

An "opt-in" for public profiles would be ideal but it would be a lot of work than just not dealing with it. As I said I respect Spirit's call on this. Comments/reviews are more substantial anyway.