Quaddicted.com Forum

Hepativore

Member

Quake I and Quake II crossover

So, I know this has been speculated before, with how Quake I and Quake II are linked as the crates in the game have the same "skull" symbol in both Quake I and Quake II, but has anybody tried creating a mod/map pack with the base maps and enemies being a natural progression into Quake II style enemies and environments? The "base" textures in Quake I are more impressive looking with their rusty and dilapidated theme compared to those of Quake II in my opinion.

I know that there was somebody here who was trying to put some Strogg enemies in some Quake I maps, but the mod was never finished.

I ask, because the "base" enemies like the grunts and enforcers almost seem like "proto-strogg" with how they act and how the game mentions that grunts are basically lobotomized soldiers with probes put in their heads hooked up to their pleasure centers in whatever remains of their brains.

Madfox

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

Orb''s Betrayal.

see: orbit.zip

Last edited by Madfox (2023-05-29 12:02:34)

chad2

Guest

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

Hey Hepatitvore, this may be because Quake II looks more generic artistically so it is inferior to Quake I. Looking at Quake III Arena design-wise I believe it would be correct to try to match Quake II to Quake I by adding demonic vibe to environment and foes. I mean many Quake III Arena maps are gothic and Quake II is completely sci-fi, so it looks like Quake II is the one that interrupts the continuity of art design.

Hepativore

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

Hey Hepatitvore, this may be because Quake II looks more generic artistically so it is inferior to Quake I. Looking at Quake III Arena design-wise I believe it would be correct to try to match Quake II to Quake I by adding demonic vibe to environment and foes. I mean many Quake III Arena maps are gothic and Quake II is completely sci-fi, so it looks like Quake II is the one that interrupts the continuity of art design.

It is not just the "Gothic" worlds of the Quake realm. It is the fact that the Quake I base maps feel more "dystopian and oppressive sci-fi" than Quake II even though Quake II tried to go in that direction. think it is how every single metal surface in Quake I's base maps is covered in rust, and the dingy lighting, greens, beiges, browns, and dirty water go together to give the base maps a very bleak and limnal feel, as if the bases have been left to rot by lobotomized enemies for years. Plus, Quake I enemies move and shoot a lot faster so it is a much faster-paced game.

The Alkaline map pack was a better "Quake II" than the original Quake II game. So I would like to see somebody trying to put some Quake II monsters in a Quake I mod/map pack like basementApe was experimenting with in his Q2M mod

chad2

Guest

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

I see, you're correct it's not just gothic. In fact I was meaning the same thing, that "dystopian and oppressive sci-fi" feel you described very correctly. I agree Alkaline is better than Quake II, I also haven't got far in Dwell but first map is decent in this dystopian sci-fi fell. I in fact do adore this feel.

Speaking of gameplay pacing,  I now can agree it will be interesting to see Quake II monsters in Quake I. They just need to move and shoot faster to match Quake I. Maybe textures of monsters can be edited to appear rusty and old, like it's in the far future (ages after Quake II). Like I always felt it's cool to think Quake I takes place the latest time-wise/

Hepativore

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

I would like to see some minor tweaks to add to Quake I in something like a mod or map pack to add to the storytelling elements of Quake I...

1. Make every weapon you get in the game taken from a defeated enemy like Alkaline did with the Lieutenant's super nailgun. This should also hold true for enemies that are equipped with the regular nailgun, double-barreled shotgun, thunderbolt, the ogre's grenade launcher, the rocket launcher from rocket grunts, etc. This makes more sense than having weapons just sitting out in the open.

2. This should also hold true for card keys/rune keys in the game. So, if you are fighting a bunch of grunts and then an enforcer comes along, when defeated, that enforcer drops a card key, indicating that he is some sort of "officer" among the enemies you are facing because he has a higher security clearance, and the same thing goes for rune keys being dropped by higher tier netherworld monsters, such as a hell knight, vore, ogre, etc. somewhere in the level.

3. This is somewhat controversial, but as the regular shotgun in the game is very weak, and is only really used for "sniping" enemies once you find the double-barreled shotgun, how about a pistol in the game instead? It would act the same way, only with no scatter at a distance but it would also be a very weak weapon that you start the game with. The same goes for the regular nailgun once you get the super nailgun. Perhaps,, since the nailgun is so iconic in the game, it could be a weapon that is "upgraded" at different points in the game at stations in different maps to improve its capabilities, so the nailgun gets upgraded to the super nailgun, another upgrade has it fire heated nails, and then a further upgrade causes projectiles to be semi-homing on your target.

The space formerly occupied by just having one nail weapon instead of two could be something like the blaster rifle that you get from an enforcer.

4. The most controversial and difficult suggestion of all...

Just like you have some monster infighting in the game, there should also be monster cooperation. When some monsters see you, they should retreat and warn the others nearby, or the noise a monster makes can immediately alert others in the vicinity, and perhaps some of them will actively hunt you down within the map; even as a "squad" or pack, as well as take cover behind structures if it is a monster with a ranged attack and try and have a "shootout" instead of just charging into gunfire.

The tweaks to AI for something like that would be complicated, but it would be cool to see Quake monsters with AI that is actively trying to take advantage of its environment and is trying to be tactical in its behavior.

Last edited by Hepativore (2023-05-31 00:12:50)

chad2

Guest

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

BTW there's a Generations mod that allows playing Quake I levels using Quake II weapons or something like that — https://www.moddb.com/mods/generations-for-quake-ii

Hepativore

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

BTW there's a Generations mod that allows playing Quake I levels using Quake II weapons or something like that — https://www.moddb.com/mods/generations-for-quake-ii

Oh, I know...I have tried it, and it let's you use Quake II character models and weapons, but I just cannot play Quake I without my beloved nail gun.

rj

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

3. This is somewhat controversial, but as the regular shotgun in the game is very weak, and is only really used for "sniping" enemies once you find the double-barreled shotgun, how about a pistol in the game instead? It would act the same way, only with no scatter at a distance but it would also be a very weak weapon that you start the game with.

I've always wanted this, for the reasons you state, but have yet to find a pistol/handgun model that looks suitably Quakey. I'd probably still include a little bit of scatter since it's still shooting shells, which is obviously a bit silly but I think the right kind of model/sound could sell it

Hepativore

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

3. This is somewhat controversial, but as the regular shotgun in the game is very weak, and is only really used for "sniping" enemies once you find the double-barreled shotgun, how about a pistol in the game instead? It would act the same way, only with no scatter at a distance but it would also be a very weak weapon that you start the game with.

I've always wanted this, for the reasons you state, but have yet to find a pistol/handgun model that looks suitably Quakey. I'd probably still include a little bit of scatter since it's still shooting shells, which is obviously a bit silly but I think the right kind of model/sound could sell it

I do not know...I like the idea of having separate pistol ammunition just to add some variety to the ammunition boxes in the game.

As far as a pistol that would fit in Quake I, how about something based on a weathered and aged-looking Mauser C96?

rj

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

I guess if you were introducing a new ammo type then that would open things up a bit, and yeah that design could work.

If it had to use shells I was thinking something a bit chunkier, that could almost pass for a one-handed shotgun. A quick google and this is probably my favourite (also low-poly friendly):

Of course, there would be zero sense in it firing shells more precisely than a full-sized shotgun :D I think we're just conditioned to expect smaller weapons to fire faster and more precisely.

Anyway I'm getting away from the topic... I'd love a Q1/Q2 mashup. I think Q2 is often unfairly criticised for its looks as everyone remembers the washed-out greys of the early units. I think it gets better later on though; I've seen textures from the mines and power units used to good effect in several Q1 maps, they are grimey and have some clearly defined shapes/patterns. I probably even prefer them to idbase. The main focus should definitely be on getting the Q2 monsters to behave more like Q1 monsters though

I've not played Madfox's map yet, off to give that a look now :D

Hepativore

Member

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

One thing that I really like with the Alkaline and Quoth mods that is also present in Quake II, is enemy skins showing "damaged" states whenever they are injured.

Anyway, going further down the rabbit hole, of how to push the bleak, dystopian science fiction feel of Quake I base maps, is to take a page from Silent Hill, and use the fog effect for outdoor environments like some mods already do, and portray the skyboxes as being overcast, dim gray skies as you see in Silent Hill 2.

Also, the stainmaps for some engines like FTEQW or Darkplaces should be used when damaging enemies. I do not know why the "blood" of Quake II enemies is so orange.

The enforcer's weapon should be lootable and be the "hyperblaster" of Quake I, and as it would run on cells, cell ammunition should be more plentiful.

The normal grunt would be equipped with a pistol instead of his crappy shotgun to serve as an additional source of pistol rounds, and so he would need some sort of custom model and animation for firing his pistol. Then next up, you would have double-barreled shotgun wielding grunts filling the gap between pistol grunts and nailgun grunts.

There should be an enemy type that is actually equipped with the Thunderbolt in-game instead of the shambler being the only enemy that has a lightning attack...like a "Colonel" enforcer variant. Due to how damaging his weapon would be, he might be suited as a sort of miniboss, and therefore might have more health than a normal enforcer. I do not know what color his suit would be, but how about something like a black-and-yellow "hazard stripes" theme? When they spot you, they could yell something like: "TIME TO FRY!"

Enemies should also be damaged by falling in slime or lava in Quake I just like they are in Quake II.

Plus, just like Alkaline has cyborg fiends, how about shamblers with a cyborg skin?

Last edited by Hepativore (2023-06-04 03:30:07)

Gnimpf

Guest

Re: Quake I and Quake II crossover

https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-return