#1 2011-12-01 20:07:34

Spirit
Administrator

Recommending maps to newcomers

If you had 1-3 releases to recommend to someone who never played a custom Quake map before, which would it be? I would like to make a simple page with recommended releases.

#2 2011-12-01 20:21:33

Spirit
Administrator

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Mine: czg07, gmsp3 and that blue/gold map I tend to forget the name of.

#3 2011-12-01 20:24:24

onetruepurple
Banned

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

- czg03
- Warp Spasm (unless you mean single maps only, in case of which warpc)
- marcher

#4 2011-12-03 13:12:37

goddogx
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

are you presuming this mythical newbie is using a modern port?

#5 2011-12-03 18:50:02

Spirit
Administrator

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Yes, Quakespasm or DirectQ.

#6 2012-01-03 17:54:55

The namless one
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Beyond belief, PSE, Rapture, all czg, DaMaul06, OUM, APSP 1\2(best single maps imo)
Warp Spasm only if you want to make him never want to play quake ever again )

#7 2012-01-08 02:34:11

taniwha
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Kinn's The Marcher Fortress, absolutely. Vondur's Elements is pretty cool, too.

#8 2013-09-17 19:39:52

indstr
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Any other recommendations? I am the mythical newbie   :)     Though I played Quake 1 when it first came out, I moved on afterwards and never really played any custom maps, until now.

So what are some more really good maps? Perhaps some that would get 6 stars out of 5?   :)   Spirit I'm sure you're full of plenty of recommends.

#9 2013-11-24 17:22:05

Icantthinkofanickname
Moderator

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Kinn's Marcher Fortress (kinn_marcher), without a doubt. Nothing else beats its truly epic atmosphere. Might be a little difficult for newcomers, but less so than other massive horde-based maps.
Backsteingotik (backstein1e), or anything else by Sock.
The mini episode Rubicon 2 (rubicon2) by metlslime and czg.

And if you're looking for something a little different:
The Anomaly 2: Water (digs06) by Digs.
Ascending and Descending (mce) by negke.
Twisted Christmas (twxfinal) by Twisted Matrix -- it's quite dated by now and fairly hard, but still fun and very different from the standard gloomy zombies and monsters.

Tronyn's Soul of Evil (soe_full) should probably be on a list of recommended custom episodes too (alongside czg's Insomnia and Matthias Worch's Beyond Belief).

Last edited by Icantthinkofanickname (2013-11-24 20:59:28)

#10 2014-01-26 16:49:46

Yamato
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Can be run with WinQuake. Quite short, easy to download, no require extra addons or texture packs:

Base Style: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/hrimspeed.html

More base style with new textures: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/xplore.html

Enjoy.

#11 2014-04-22 09:52:50

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Rapture and Insomnia are my favorite episodes of all time. But the first maps I played when I got back into Quake a year ago, just randomly downloading things from the archive, were Honey, Subterranean Library, and The Altar of Storms. Great picks.

#12 2014-04-22 10:52:37

mfx
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Yeah, Honey, especially the one called "Sheer hellish Miasma" is perhaps my all time favorit.
But all the maps Sock made last year are near that, i swear. Zendar at first.
Thans apsp2 is for me, as a idbase maniac, probably the best base map there is.
So what´s your favorite runic map? Swampy map? Can one put maps in those categories?
I still have to find a map that comes near that 4th episode feeling, that elderly world style.

Last edited by mfx (2014-04-22 10:53:06)

#13 2014-05-05 23:20:56

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Hmm, I can't say runic or swamp are my favorite themes—I've definitely played quality maps in those categories but can't think of the names atm. Honestly Quake episode 2 has some great swampy stuff—whatever the level with the Dopefish secret is called always stood out to me.

I totally agree about not having played a great custom map in the Elder World style of E4. Maybe the closest thing is some of necros's hellish maps, which really get a cross a feeling of being lost in a labyrinthine world of pure, pointless evil. Still, not the same. I really want to play something in the vein of the final level of E4—any suggestions?

#14 2014-05-05 23:21:24

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

And yeah, Sock's maps are amazing. Shame he's no longer working on Quake.

#15 2014-05-06 03:43:41

Tronyn
Guest

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Re: E4
There are some maps directly modelled on e4 which you can find by putting in "Elder World" in the maps list, but I'd try "My World is Your World." I also have a list of elder world maps here, but as I admit on the list, there's not as much to choose from in this theme unfortunately:

https://www.quaddicted.com/webarchive/u … o08a4.html

I have 4 other top 10 articles you might be interested in, if you haven't seen them (3 accessible through that link and 1 more here on quaddicted).

#16 2014-05-07 19:05:17

Cocerello
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Apart from favourites, likes or dislikes, if we are talking about maps to get newcomers hooked, a map with spectacular big architecture and without any new special feature would be the best, something like kinn_marcher for example. For that reason, excellent looking maps like honey, sock's maps or altar of storms i think that they shouldn't be that good for just this case.

But this is if the person is already willing to play Quake maps, if you try to hook up a person that for example asks you on why are you playing a game with more than 10 years, the choice needs probably to be different, like a good-looking map with very high-resoultion textures, like for example a base map from SoA in Darkplaces wiith RT ligthting on and with QRP and QReforged textures. That, or resigning yourself over getting that one into Quake.

#17 2014-05-10 00:42:20

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Thanks Tronyn!

@Cocerello, I think it depends on whether the newbie is an old Quake fan who hasn't played custom maps before (in which case almost any suggestion is likely to impress them) or a modern shooter fan who wants to try out Quake. In the latter case it might be good to recommend them a recent map with lots of setpieces and intricate brushes, textures etc. but other than the graphics it is also the style of gameplay they would likely have to get used to. Quake just doesn't play like any FPS made since the turn of the century (at least the one's I've played). Then again I think the genre has been mostly crap since 2004 (the year Halo 2, Half-Life 2, and UT2K4 came out—although I might be a bit alone among Quake fans for liking the first two Halo games haha) :P

#18 2014-05-11 20:06:48

Icantthinkofanickname
Moderator

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

Re: Cocerello & Lane Powell:

Well, if the person has never played Quake before, I'd say the best place to start is Quake itself. Only then would it make sense to move on to custom maps. I converted someone to Quake earlier this year (without actually trying to) by introducing them to the original game (with no flashy add-ons). Ok, one person is hardly a persuasively large sample, but still...

As for shiny hi-res textures, reskinned monsters, RT lights etc., I wonder if it is really a good idea to try and use those to impress a newcomer. Quake 1 is never going to look like a modern shooter anyway: if you're going to try and compete with the ultra-realism of a 2014 game that has had the benefit of an additional 18 years of technological development, you're fighting a losing battle.

So rather than fight it, I'd say embrace Quake's retro, low-res old-school charm. There have been many successful games recently that have even more primitive graphics than Quake (e.g. many indie games and browser-based games), which shows that one does not need flashy visuals to win players over.

(I am admittedly biased, though, as I am not a fan of hi-res textures and the like -- although I do admire and appreciate the work people have put into them.)

#19 2014-05-11 21:50:50

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

For sure, vanilla Quake would be the best way, although I've had a lot of experience with younger gamers (and even older gamers who mostly play AAA games or indie games with high-res graphics these days) who throw around the word "dated" too much with respect to graphics. When the new Thief game came out I read a few articles praising the first two Thief games to high heavens... except they had to mention how dated the graphics are. I don't know, I think those games still look as good as they play! I've gotten into arguments with friends accusing me of having "unwarranted" nostalgia for old 3D graphics. So it goes I guess.

I do like the use of "primitive" graphics in certain india games that you mention. The other night I played a game called Lost in the Woods, a short sort of adventure/exploration game. It's definitely imo a flawed game in the way arty, conceptual games often are, but the one thing I really liked about it was how the pixellated graphics combined with the lighting really gave the rather small game world an atmosphere like few others. It was something like a more realistic, grounded version of the first Silent Hill without the monsters. Imscared is another indie horror game (though I haven't played it yet) that has a similar graphical philosophy. Gamers who are into that sort of thing should have no problem with Quake's graphics.

#20 2014-05-12 02:55:34

Lane Powell
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

The game I'm thinking of is Night in the Woods actually. Lost in the Woods is something else.

#21 2014-05-17 14:18:58

Cocerello
Member

Re: Recommending maps to newcomers

My bad, i forgot to check all the posts. now i see the situation.

i would recommend you, if you are still in this lair, indstr: marcher_kinn, Altar of storms, Backsteingotik, Shadow over Insmouth. Whiteroom, hrimfaxi's map from turtlemap pack 3 and e3m5rmx from remix pack for something different but also very good. Arwop, if you play it on easy. All of them are astounding in all aspects and provide good combats with no unfair parts.

Lane Powell wrote:

I think it depends on whether the newbie is an old Quake fan who hasn't played custom maps before (in which case almost any suggestion is likely to impress them) or a modern shooter fan who wants to try out Quake.

yes, i know, but let me add something else. At least from what surrounds me in real life, those two cases tend to merge a lot in the same person, at least from my experience, of course.
Most of the people that i know tend to follow mindlessly (in my experience, if you ask them for reasons, they don't get past the clichéd answers or begin sorting incoherent words), like a sheep in the herd, the trend about graphic technology (not graphic quality) being the most important thing in a videogame, even though they played Wolfenstein3d or Alone in the Dark when they were released and even used an Amstrad, Spectrum or Commodore, ... back in the days.
To summarize, that kind of behavior isn't related to age, even though it has some influence.

That's why i posed that option, because i see it a lot in real life. At first it surprised me a lot because i noticed this just some years ago, that's why i investigated a bit, but nowadays i don't pay attention to those comments as long i don't see at least an individual thought in the middle of the clichéd phrases.

Lane Powell wrote:

but other than the graphics it is also the style of gameplay

Icantthinkofanickname wrote:

Well, if the person has never played Quake before, I'd say the best place to start is Quake itself. Only then would it make sense to move on to custom maps. I converted someone to Quake earlier this year (without actually trying to) by introducing them to the original game (with no flashy add-ons). Ok, one person is hardly a persuasively large sample, but still...

Well, just as you say, one example doesn't prove a thing, but as we are with anecdotes, i can tell you one. Back when i was investigating this kind of behavior, what i used to hook up ''recent technology graphics fanboys'' was an old and unknown for them videogame, Sauerbraten, and use the screenshot with the biggest number of effects and one that were a bit dark. 100 of 100 success, even thought i only tested it with an small number of fanboys, so it doesn't prove a thing ;) . Showing them a video of that compilation of Darkplaces additions that roams in youtube works wonders too, even thought this choice of additions doesn't look well, in my opinion. As long as you keep hidden the fact that it is Quake, they think it is a recently released CoD-like videogame, and don't notice the brushwork.

Icantthinkofanickname wrote:

As for shiny hi-res textures, reskinned monsters, RT lights etc., I wonder if it is really a good idea to try and use those to impress a newcomer. Quake 1 is never going to look like a modern shooter anyway: if you're going to try and compete with the ultra-realism of a 2014 game that has had the benefit of an additional 18 years of technological development, you're fighting a losing battle.

Lane Powell wrote:

but other than the graphics it is also the style of gameplay

you have a good point there, except in the case of fanboys of both extremes, were appearances and self-suggestion are everything.

Icantthinkofanickname wrote:

So rather than fight it, I'd say embrace Quake's retro, low-res old-school charm. There have been many successful games recently that have even more primitive graphics than Quake (e.g. many indie games and browser-based games), which shows that one does not need flashy visuals to win players over.

They usually are games where it is accepted a certain type of graphics, but it isn't primitive, they have lots of details and effects and are flashy on their own, like in platformers like the latest Marios or some indie games, like Retroblazer.

Lane Powell wrote:

I think those games still look as good as they play! I've gotten into arguments with friends accusing me of having "unwarranted" nostalgia for old 3D graphics. So it goes I guess.

Don't worry about that. Internet is filled with that enough to get anyone bored.

The best option here is reducing those occasions to the minimum, as the more you have, the higher the risk you have of becoming a ''more than five years old videogames' fanboy'', even if you weren't at first.

When there is an extreme, the opposite one doesn't take long to appear. It applies to lots of things.

So i prefer to not continue with this topic and focus on recommendations, even though i created it.

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