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#1 2018-11-12 21:58:30

Spirit
Administrator

A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Since the Quaddicted map system is old and broken, new releases never get added and I have too much control on the site:

How about we find a weekend some time this year to focus on the shortcomings of the site and grand visions plans for the future? I have lots of ideas how a vastly different system could ensure that new releases are available in an instant, automated tools can become way more powerful, etc.

But alone it is not much fun to work this step by step.

Who would be up for some focused collaboration?

#2 2018-11-13 08:00:33

shamblernaut
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

I'd be up for this.

#3 2018-11-13 13:44:58

MikeTaylor
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

I don't think such a grand plan is necessary. To me, Quaddicted is 97% of what I want from a Quake site, and the missing 3% is just timely addition of new maps. I think you could just appoint three or four trusted lieutenants and given them the necessary privileges to do this, and we'd be fine.

#4 2018-11-13 16:23:19

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

The issue with adding the new maps on time is that people want free filenames and the possibility to release multiple versions of something using the same filename(s). The current system does not support that.

shamblernaut: Yay!

#5 2018-11-13 17:59:40

dumptruck_ds
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Spirit I can not actually help with code or anything but I am good at outreach IMO. What kind of skills should interested parties have. Python development I assume. What other disciplines would be helpful for this brainstorming?

#6 2018-11-14 09:26:14

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Oh but you can!

It should be more about data structures and organisation, tagging and other things that require knowledge of how and what kinds of things are released in the Quake (or general modding) scene and imagination how to put those into "rules"/models.

Python and all that comes later, once we have the concept right, the rest should be fun.

#7 2018-11-15 15:22:23

topher
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

I can help too. I am in a bit of a mess in my life now; but i have some time to spare.

ideas:

one thing that can be done is making a package manager, each map or mappack has multiple versions. The old versions remain hosted. And the versions are generated internally if necesary.

the problem is expecting or enforcing rules on the releases...

otherwise we will need a more complex script to handle different things, or someone manually checking the packages.
or make a testing thing, that checks if a package is malformed, handling automatically the other ones, and making scripts/rules for whatever comes up. or, maybe, giving the rules and tools for the mappers so they do it manually themselves.

#8 2018-11-15 17:24:45

adib
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Long long time corporate boring stuff developer here, Java developer for more than 15 years now. Would like to help with "data structures and organization" or anything else. It would be nice to have someone more experienced in portals and content management in this discussion. Do we have someone?

#9 2018-11-27 21:33:27

Pieter
Guest

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

I am willing to help with this. For my job I do a lot of work in Python, R  and SQL (mostly analysis, but also data transformation etc.). I have no experience with web development, but am interested to learn. I have limited time available (job, 3 small children, etc) but can review and comment on proposals, do some coding where needed and can work on documentation. My main motivation is the importance of an archive like Quaddicted for future popular culture historians (I am one by training :-)

#10 2018-11-27 21:40:10

Pieter
Guest

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Pieter wrote:

I am willing to help with this. For my job I do a lot of work in Python, R  and SQL (mostly analysis, but also data transformation etc.). I have no experience with web development, but am interested to learn. I have limited time available (job, 3 small children, etc) but can review and comment on proposals, do some coding where needed and can work on documentation. My main motivation is the importance of an archive like Quaddicted for future popular culture historians (I am one by training :-)

My current line of thought for the near future is to have a submission script running which can check the validity of incoming submissions, do some minor metadata transformation if needed / possible and submits the package to the archive maintainers. Submissions with too many packaging errors are rejected and a helpful rejection message is returned.

Such a script could tide the archive over until a more robust solution is available.

#11 2018-12-10 19:21:39

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Would this sunday work for people? I'd set us up a zulip instance to chat and share the logs afterwards (if not keep it online).

#12 2018-12-10 23:16:21

dumptruck_ds
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

That's a busy day personally, so it's a maybe.

Last edited by dumptruck_ds (2018-12-10 23:45:27)

#13 2018-12-11 01:44:13

topher
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

i can this sunday.

#14 2018-12-14 13:27:14

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

I'll try to set it up early tomorrow and dump my thoughts and ideas out. Then we have ample time for asynchronous discussion :)

#15 2018-12-16 09:02:48

Maxi
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Hi. I'm relatively new to Quake community (several months), learning mapping and going to learn QuakeC too.
I have experience in web development and some experience with C++ with Qt framework.
Also, I have little obsession with archiving/saving information and I'm very interested in making map archive for Quake maps better. Not sure if my programmer's knowledge will be useful, but I'm willing to help with what I can, at least with ideas.
I had a thought to slowly build some enhanced version of Quake Injector myself but realized that my ideas quickly became too ambitious for my skill in software development. And I think people need updated Quake Injector (or at least similar tool), not some grandiose steam-like app. So, it will be much better if that will be "official" tool, made by people with greater programming experience, than me.
Maybe I'll do my ambitious tool someday anyway. Having alternatives is good.
Anyway, I'd like to share some of my ideas, that may fit Quake Injector and to join this discussion, if you don't mind.

#16 2018-12-16 09:09:53

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Oh poop, I forgot an important appointment today so I won't be online much.

I did set up https://chat.quaddicted.com and here is what I posted so far:

qfuture  > what's bad wrote:

quaddicted was built on the assumption that filenames are unique, that there would only be one "filename.zip" and that this file was immutable (other versions of the same map/mod/whatever would use a different filename)

so I decided to use the zip's basename as identifier both in the database and in URLs for user-friendliness

that was not the case...

only i can upload to quaddicted so new releases becoming available in the review system or injector always depends on my attention (and willingness...)

quaddicted was foremost made for singleplayer maps but then many turned out to be mods and there is no clear line

the system does not support sidecar files like optional music and stuff like that. every thing in the database gets a webpage

there is no concept of a main name for things like quoth, dependencies are pointing to specific filename's (the identifiers)

screenshots also follow the identifier rule, there can only be one screenshot per release

File types are restricted to zip files, but in reality everything from bsp to exe gets released

qfuture  > identifiers wrote:

To solve the problem of identifiers, I propose using a sha512 hash, possibly truncated to 256-384 bits

URLs would then be fugly but no issues with collisions ever

Files would go into files/by-sha512/$firstCharOfHash/$hash/filename.zip

First char subdirectories to be future proof in terms of volume, thousands of files in one directory in a bad idea.

I'll test this on a large corpus to see if we maybe should even use the first two characters

Nice about this is that it is robust against renamed files and would allow clients that have some file and wonder what it is, to calculate the hash and then check

md5 is broken, sha1 too. Thus they are unfit for the purpose of 'please god no collisions ever'

qfuture  > metadata wrote:

Quaddicted is basically metadata plus community stuff around files

metadata: what is this file, who made this and when, what is included, how big is it, etc

Currently this is stored in a SQL database with a column (or table for 1:n relationships like the 'included files') per metadata thing

That is not very flexible

And it requires dedicated editors. we have a website editor thanks to Sajt but it is rudimentary and not fit to be opened up for everyone to use

The current system is also dependant on me uploading files and the filenames abiding to strict rules, as it will automatically determine some metadata and inspect the zip file contents (failing on some zip dialects/versions)

My idea here is to define a json format for describing the file itself (hash, size, filename(s))

Everything that describes the kind or contents of the file would be a list of strings of key=value pairs, with duplicates allowed. For example gamemode=coop, gamemode=singleplayer, author=czg, author=BigFluffy, releasedate=2018-12-15, style=outrun, dependency=quoth>=2, title=The Title, etc

That would also potentially include machine readable installation instructions

Such json file would exist for each hash, maybe in files/by-sha512/$firstCharOfHash/$hash.json

The json way could also be a way of providing multiple URLs from where the file itself could be downloaded, we could even include magnet or ipfs urls

Those json files would be handled and tracked in a public git repository, with lots of trusted maintainers and the possibility for everyone to propose changes

Quaddicted would then use this main repository of file data and metadata, sync and parse it regularly and build its portals from it (like the badly URLed /reviews/ for sp maps) based on the tags it finds

So this would easily enable specific 'views' on the vast landscape of releases

And even enable tracking of arbitrary files currently not covered by any surviving website, e.g. movies, skins etc

The community aspects, comments, ratings, screenshots (:thinking:) would remain in a db at Quaddicted

since that require more interactivity and immediate action

Not sure about screenshots...

#17 2018-12-16 14:42:17

topher
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

ok i don't know how to login in that zulip webapp

seems solid. i see that currently you have 128bit hashes in the download metadata, between parens.
i would go directly with two chars, that will give 255 folders, that's what git repositories use.

about the json file, most implementations take only the last entry of duplicated keys. Luckily the json format is not complex.
also we will need validators and other things

the good thing about the json is that anyone that can map can write a json and understand the rules pretty quickly.

about the metadata and filecontents i'm thinking two things:
a) guidelines
b) code to handle the most commons cases
i'm guessing that everything that is already in the archives are well formated and with valid metadata, so the guidelines/code are for new releases

for example, some people put a map file and gfx in the root of the zip file, and in the instructions explain where they go.

They can be community managed, if they're in a github repo. for all purposes, well formed zip files are preferable to instructions to rename and move files.

#18 2018-12-16 20:13:25

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

topher wrote:

ok i don't know how to login in that zulip webapp

Sorry, I accidentally left it invite-only (the default). Total fail on my end... It's open now. There is also a desktop client: https://github.com/zulip/zulip-electron

#19 2018-12-16 21:40:44

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Maxi, welcome! I am sure you can contribute in many ways, even if they are just comments here and there. Hell, I learned PHP and SQL when building this site originally and it still works (debatebly well ;) ).


topher wrote:

seems solid. i see that currently you have 128bit hashes in the download metadata, between parens.
i would go directly with two chars, that will give 255 folders, that's what git repositories use.

Great idea to follow git there, thanks! The 128bit hashes are md5, those are only good for validation of downloads, not as identifiers and someone could just hack a matching one to be funny.

topher wrote:

about the json file, most implementations take only the last entry of duplicated keys. Luckily the json format is not complex.

I use Python and thus would treat these as dictionaries, duplicate keys definitely should not be there. Instead we will need to use lists for those things that might be multiplicities(?).

topher wrote:

also we will need validators and other things

the good thing about the json is that anyone that can map can write a json and understand the rules pretty quickly.

about the metadata and filecontents i'm thinking two things:
a) guidelines
b) code to handle the most commons cases

yeeee, human-editable is a major benefit. Validator (and some tool to help authors to create these files themselves) would come once we fixed a first version of the format.

topher wrote:

i'm guessing that everything that is already in the archives are well formated and with valid metadata, so the guidelines/code are for new releases

It depends :} But I would use the existing db to generate such json files as a start. Generally I would want them to exist for any Quake file imaginable, retroactively created by the community. All the mods, engines, whatnot. The tagging system should be able to handle this (I like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features a lot).

topher wrote:

for example, some people put a map file and gfx in the root of the zip file, and in the instructions explain where they go.

They can be community managed, if they're in a github repo. for all purposes, well formed zip files are preferable to instructions to rename and move files.

People will release files in any way they like and there is no central instance (like idgames) to force anything. People release badly packaged maps to this day. Thus this idea of being able to supplement their files with metadata. One important key would be unpacking/installation instructions.

Thanks for your awesome input!

#20 2018-12-17 06:37:41

ericw
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Hi Spirit, I wasn't able to sign up at https://chat.quaddicted.com/
I clicked sign up, entered my email address and got:

Configuration error


It appears there are problems with the email configuration.

See /var/log/zulip/errors.log for more details on the error.

You may also want to test your email configuration, as described in the Production installation docs.

After making your changes, remember to restart the Zulip server.

#21 2018-12-17 17:43:04

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Oh god how complicated did they make. It was trivial a while back. :o)

The mails should have gone out now.

#22 2018-12-18 06:36:56

ericw
Member

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Thanks - got in!

#23 2019-01-16 19:37:09

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

examples of potential metadata (with bugs and discrepancies as I wrote them over time):

for gmsp3:

{"filename": "gmsp3.zip",
 "files": {"gmsp3.txt": {"size": 4950, "timestamp": "2003-10-19 16:22:52"},
           "gmsp3v2.bsp": {"size": 5617208,
                           "timestamp": "2003-10-12 19:44:58"}},
 "install": {"extract": "{quake}/id1/maps/"},
 "sha512": "20cb367d7ade48ff98288e588d9fc34e127ee51a84baab92105e1d109822b34a5238bfc04acac56a5865a442d3c0b64694dd191289394bb36d3fdcbad381983d",
 "size": 2319710,
 "tags": ["title:Day of the Lords",
          "author:Howard \"GlassMan\" Shaw",
          "game:quake",
          "mod:id1",
          "bsp:gmsp3v2",
          "style:castle",
          "style:medieval",
          "size:big",
          "todowhat:classic",
          "size:large",
          "textures:unreal",
          "textures:rtgnosis",
          "award:planetquake-map-of-the-week",
          "releasedate:2003-10-19",
          "dependency:id1"],
 "urls": ["https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/d/20cb367d7ade48ff98288e588d9fc34e127ee51a84baab92105e1d109822b34a5238bfc04acac56a5865a442d3c0b64694dd191289394bb36d3fdcbad381983d/gmsp3.zip"]}

quoth2.2

{"sha512": "7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5",
 "filename": "quoth2pt2full.zip",
 "size": 54792367,
 "tags": ["title:Quoth 2.2",
  "author:Preach",
  "author:necros",
  "author:Kell",
  "game:quake",
  "mod:quoth",
  "releasedate:2014-05-04",
  "dependency:id1",
  "version:2.2",
  "basename:quoth"],
 "urls": ["https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/5/7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5/quoth2pt2full.zip"],
 "install": {"extract": "{quake}/quoth/"}}

quoth2.2 with included files from the zip and included files from one of its paks, those things of course would be optional:

{
  "sha512": "7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5",
  "filename": "quoth2pt2full.zip",
  "size": 54792367,
  "tags": [
    "title:Quoth 2.2",
    "author:Preach",
    "author:necros",
    "author:Kell",
    "game:quake",
    "mod:quoth",
    "releasedate:2014-05-04",
    "dependency:id1",
    "version:2.2",
    "basename:quoth"
  ],
  "urls": [
    "https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/5/7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5/quoth2pt2full.zip"
  ],
  "install": {
    "extract": "{quake}/quoth/"
  },
  "files": {
    "launch.bat": {
      "size": 6927,
      "timestamp": "2014-05-03T11:23:28.000Z",
      "sha512": "c29493f67183b46cb1758e4d9680e2a6e7a675cb996741f8103098d1d3d8292a0fb2e2067fed5723aed7fdfdf387583a7ee34426094d3b24f290952342fc8220"
    },
    "pak0.pak": {
      "size": 48226771,
      "timestamp": "2008-02-06T20:38:00.000Z",
      "sha512": "c0d6f7553368e459522f63d6bd4cfc767a0f7275bd6826b434b3fac378bbeb5bd1935fa32d28959a1d6f4bfed19625f6a45048b695b29f31372c466dec59858e",
      "files": {
        "gfx.wad": {
          "size": 128932,
          "sha512": "fbb73295dc57facb7fb120e9f6d5e56c675cd9cfe5f574c1ab2be8a12776e8ca997a70fe5a10b0f0ce8361d73bf89f9b3644babeb7c494fd5b66266d70d97ac0"
        },
        "gfx/env/bseaup.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "54bc7c070a2f935b0ffb4f2bccd6d5cafd34c53d5073bdc459dfb01f1590efed1c7218723c258ee572ee2a3fe2c7c61700e43c67e952417b31fa462350154bdb"
        },
        "gfx/env/bseabk.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "d76af137a8484d092f8852a4920bc5f7e72c7feeaf5b7bb9b5f3c8eb25b18ff67f51b495ca8150d603482c75302f55577488af9e6a4d42681c8dc04b0148cacf"
        },
        "gfx/env/bseadn.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "781141d24979ea3e652ac22e1a5bac5609b8a4464d5379a11cfbef104127a2fcbd44b5f5a0fe1dbb08206749e3da27d3ffc105845a132399babab41d0aefedb4"
        },
        "gfx/env/bseaft.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "4c881507ef0a00f7b93fa6c349ed99b9a6469f24f5082789128d58cbeb93284aef04045a2a9520fce5cabe1c78ac6845fbc37366a92f8ff20607ef90de29acc5"
        },
        "gfx/env/bsealf.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "3c4b36e1916c994e67f34c221476b718d0e1709504ff13da9523a2701f9a82cacc5fb2485dc4bb0e1efe11ef8c11e9cbca69103e6c5d6a377b740c0ea9648ab1"
        },
        "gfx/env/bseart.tga": {
          "size": 786450,
          "sha512": "79e8788b9a1e018f37de69594b1745f8f719603ad0653f6cf29d65b4c67d3d0b7a227a564de2c90eeb2104a7f1653c95ab76c04b84000de1f86d2cd7d3690884"
        },
        "gfx/env/fodrianlf.tga": {
          "size": 502698,
          "sha512": "436f6f951cd5c09a7cdfac878af56bd90fa531186e72a59a4a9bd04a3478a285df50dde7db51785b1ab0ed093ddda4a0d07bfa5c4c9895ce3515cf1960128f11"
        },
        "gfx/env/fodrianrt.tga": {
          "size": 468382,
          "sha512": "990ef367a39e485182fcaf5e14f84efce2a1cc8b764994fce332219cf3187721cf8099294a70ca047aaf59180834073900eec5d1947dbf930b50ffffdbe28520"
        },
        "gfx/env/fodrianup.tga": {
          "size": 538367,
          "sha512": "2f16b501421f116b3f2bd0f1ad094f168033adb59a2d0ef5cd84ffa21a3439fd9e137c66d5c07436e41fac02ccbf364199b9243bf16438f58a725738fc6e985f"
        },
        "gfx/env/starsbk.tga": {
          "size": 51294,
          "sha512": "2fc454733b177ee21ba5dfc74fe40fe0c17aa05dd405d7004cb1dbfa8779dada4432498a8460f4a595d7c768bbe3a8c43fae1506410496275073cb41bbbd990e"
        },
        "gfx/env/starsdn.tga": {
          "size": 51322,
          "sha512": "4abe8d9c39eb75d6496ed55c99b7d4c41c7110c7e0a07f15575e5ab625eaa1ccbafcfe0d543f9a240953e3c6f2d282bd14e08aaa3d0a9e6c1ab0d3e1ea864651"
        },
        "gfx/env/starsft.tga": {
          "size": 51685,
          "sha512": "745039e042cde1e0e82bb96b6c49e8ba168bc1cc9a1a6ce172bf760daad3a67ea3f5df342d01dfe73311b335f04d774e3427664301d331d77bf06b2299ce5117"
        },
[stripped] 

pak1.pak because why not, it's not just zip files:

{"filename": "pak1.pak",
 "install": {"basedir": "{quake}/id1/"},
 "releasedate": "123-10-19",
 "sha512": "123",
 "size": 123,
 "tags": ["title:Quake",
          "author:id Software",
          "game:quake",
          "mod:id1",
          "bsp:e2m1",
          "bsp:e2m2",
          "bsp:e2m3",
          "bsp:e2m4",
          "bsp:e2m5",
          "bsp:e2m6",
          "bsp:...",
          "version:1.06",
          "dependency:id1?!"]
}

#24 2019-01-16 19:41:12

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

Topher wrote:

the json file can get large with a sha512 for every file.
so we need to send that json only when the user download a package
there has to be a "master" list with the file's sha512 stripped
and then a json for every package, only with the hashes and the identifier.

it's a good idea to add a screenshots array. the metadata will be there. Later the multiple screenshots can be added to the main web site or quake injector. , i don't know the bandwith numbers; that's important with screenshots, even if they are only thumbnails.

Spirit wrote:

for a quake injector thing i would imagine the initial db download being big (everything included) then subsequent updates only being diffs. placing everything into the same file (in git) would make it easiest to maintain. client facing software could decide what it wants to send out. those file lists are meant to be optional! i don't even know what they would be used for in the end

screenshots would be part of the "community stuff" to me, so not part of the file jsons. instead quaddicted or whatever other sites might spawn, could organise screenshots in any way they like for a package :)

ericw wrote:

I like the direction this is taking!
re: screenshots, often mappers/modders have chosen official screenshots or made cover images (screenshot with a logo overlaid, etc.) - it might be nice to have official media like this, that could be considered auxiliary files related to the release, in the json, and community screenshots in the other SQL db?

Spirit wrote:

thanks! :)

official screenshots could just become single items, i would not really like that (waste of space) but it should work. a json itself should only bother with one file and that specific file only, the one it describes

Maxi wrote:

If I understand correctly hash here is mainly for identifying what file you've already downloaded. But should it be main id? What is wrong about good old incremental number? I mean, nothing wrong with hashes too, only disadvantage I see is longer url adresses, but it's not a big deal I guess.

Spirit wrote:

numeric ids would be easy but then there would be some ordering no one needs and the only benefit would be shorter urls i think. for quaddicted pages (not the dowlonads) i'd probably truncate the hashes to something shorter anyways

ericw wrote:

I'd like to toss up 2 ideas:

using the hash as part of the file name for uploads is a great idea, but the JSON file names should not include the hash, but rather should be negotiated by hand to be globally unique. I'm envisioning the json file name being the "quaddicted archive entry name" = "package name" = "release name". I'd have all of the .json files living in a single directory of a git repository. The JSON filename would be identical to the URL for the quaddicted review page, so you'd have quoth2.json and quaddicted.com/reviews/quoth2. Why not use the hash in the json file name? It's bad for usability because it punishes releases that already have unique names (most releases). As an analogy, if you had a Linux package manager like that required doing: sudo apt install firefox-0bd38f just because there are two packages called, say,xutils, and they de-duplicated them by putting a bit of hash in every single package name - it would seem silly. I'd rather instead manually deduplicate the few name collisions, like 3 different maps called castle.bsp or whatever, it's fine if we add a numeric suffix to depulicate them like castle, castle2, castle3, etc.
I would change from a 1:1 mapping from json to the linked file, and allow multiple files to be linked from the .json metadata. Specifically, having the ability to upload multiple files (patches, updates) without creating a new archive entry and have an ordered list of versions. Whether or not to package something as a separate archive entry (separate .json) or bundle it as a newer version of an existing entry would be a community decision, depending on whether it's desired for the new release to have a separate page with its own reviews, tags, etc. But with the current system, we're forced to have a separate archive entry for every upload, and I'd like a new system to be flexible enough to allow not doing that. (suppose there's a map jam released that's uploaded to Quaddicted on the day of release, and the devs release an update a week later to fix some crashes etc., this would probably be a clear cut case where you'd want it to be just a new version inside the same .json metadata.) This would be a powerful feature because it gives you the ability to have a stable URL say for Quoth 2 quaddicted.com/reviews/quoth2, that will still work and give you the latest version of quoth, supposing quoth 2.3 comes out. At the same time you can share a URL to one of the specific file versions like "https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/5/78.../quoth2.2.zip if you want to do that.
How I'd imagine this would be something like, suppose this is mapjam10.json:

{"versions" :
  [
  { "name" : "mapjam10update1",
     "date" : "2019-01-07",
     "size": 54792367,
     "sha512": "7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5",
   "urls": ["https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/5/7814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5/mapjam10update1.zip"]
  },
  { "name" : "mapjam10final",
     "date" : "2019-01-01",
     "size": 2343367,
     "sha512": "a814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5",
   "urls": ["https://www.quaddicted.com/files/by-sha512/5/a814d73af2041c13a8d0700caccf4516cae7d16f62bfd9a196b19794dae5bbfe5ae533d79761a9bd72904cea11dc3bb997368d2d3c603873281b5396ba6915f5/mapjam10final.zip"]
  },
  ],
 "tags": ["title:Map jam 10",
  "author:xyz",
  "game:quake",
  "mod:quoth",
  "releasedate:2019-01-01",
  "dependency:id1"]
}

The review page would be at quaddicted.com/reviews/mapjam10. mapjam10update1.zip would be the suggested download but you would have a list of previous versions and could download the mapjam10final.zip if you wanted to check out the original upload.

Spirit wrote:

thanks!!

about the filenames for the json:

quaddicted review pages are currently mapped to filenames and that was a massive failure (showcased perfectly by preach releasing a different quoth2pt2full.zip, baker using the same filename for count Mark V releases and others). linux package repositories are vetted by lots of maintainers and gatekeepers, and they are super centralised. in gaming we have people releasing files everywhere with whatever names they choose. file immutability is important to me and something i want to make a cornerstone of this new setup. i did not know how bad the filename situation would be when i started quaddicted. filenames are something people choose and i would not want to alter them.

what you are suggesting is actually something different and something i really like! in a linux package repo there is no firefox.deb for example, but a immutable, uniquely named firefox-123-abc-etc.deb. but there is a "basename" for the thing 'firefox' and by default it references the latest version of that thing. so i think we should have a basename tag or similar, plus something for the version and the kind of file (patch? full version? addon?)

(would quoth2 be just another version of quoth? who would decide?)

I'd have all of the .json files living in a single directory of a git repository.
idgames2 alone is ~15000 files, that would not work well.

i see website and metadata as two different things here btw. quaddicted or some other site could very well generate their own unique identifiers. but people are use to useless urls nowadays so i see no issues with long ugly hashes in them (although i personally hate that myself...)

quaddicted would not be based 1:1 on this dump of json files. i hope to be able to generate e.g. a list for sp maps, qw maps, tf maps, engines, cd rips, videos, etc. in other words this system should be able to be suit any kind of file imaginable and allow others to then create and present specific selections.

the idea of using the hash for the filename of the json is having a trivial mapping between "what file do i have here" to "this is what this is and how you can use/install it"

maybe 'group' would be a better tag than 'basename'. hm, no idea... maybe there is some wisdom about this to be found in other archival communities (music?)?

and about putting multiple files into one json, hm, that's quite orthogonal to what i had in mind when i thought of their structure... i would want something as unopinionated as possible at a base with tags as option to add opinionated/subjective aspects. some tags of course would need extra attention but things like style and size would be hard to measure.

patched releases can be quite different from their original, or even consider quoth 2 vs 2.2.

tags would also be a place where the possible "startmaps" would be defined, this would break apart if there were different releases inside

what if someone releases unofficial patches or addons, that is too touchy

linux repos have "recommends" and "optional" etc. maybe we could use tags like that to hint at patches and addons

cue flamewar about highres skins being recommends or optional ;)

spike just shared fte's manifest docs with me, i need to look at that to see if we could use ideas from it for installation/unpacking instructions https://sourceforge.net/p/fteqw/code/HE … ifests.txt

#25 2019-01-16 19:41:52

Spirit
Administrator

Re: A weekend of Quaddicted future?

The chat approach turned out not to be a good idea so above is what we discussed. Input and more discussion would be HIGHLY appreciated!

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