#1 2021-07-11 07:25:29

Alex Ros
Member

What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins? I mean for example for me personally those 2 were the triggers to start searching for Quake mods, since both are made with TrenchBroom & Quake engine. In general I see it like a new wave of interest in gameing industry & among players to old fashioned shooters style. Graven is on its way and A LOT of other titles in similar retro vein. As for me personally I think Dusk & Wrath both deserve 9/10

PS. I've checked if the subject was already discussed with 'search' function and didn't find any posts. Sorry if I searched wrongly, I don't like on my own to pile up same-theme topics

#2 2021-07-11 08:49:11

triple_agent
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

I am not very much up to date with anything particularly going on in the game dev industry - big or small - therefore cannot tell; but I have heard of 'Dusk' and saw a 'Youtube' poster of 'Aeon' somewhere around on the 'modDB' portal; did not fancy looking deeper, though.

I remember also one another title that tried to make a career on the "retroism" - it was 'Strafe', I believe.

Besides, something called 'Khrot', was it not based on the 'Quake' engine?

Not that bad with me; I can also tell that the 'Build' engine games - mainly famous for 'Duke Nukem 3D' and 'Blood' - are returning to favour.

In my opinion, it is not that the technology does not matter, even when it comes to the retro games - but it does matter being able to tell when enough is enough to simply make what you want of it.

I like the particle effects of modern 'Quakespasm-Spiked', though.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-11 09:06:22)

#3 2021-07-11 09:20:24

h4724
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

Dusk is made in Unity, not any Quake engine, and not with TrenchBroom either. TrenchBroom for Dusk came later when they added mod support. I quite enjoyed Dusk when I played it; the level design in the first episode wasn't very good though, and I never actually finished it because there was a map near the end that consisted of a really long wave fight and I didn't respect that. Over all, I wouldn't really say it does anything better than Quake, but it's a decent game; I wouldn't say it deserves the overwhelming praise nor the hate it gets.

I haven't played Wrath because I'm waiting for the full release, but it looks pretty good and I'm excited for it.

Last edited by h4724 (2021-07-11 11:29:34)

#4 2021-07-11 09:22:07

Cocerello
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

They are very different kind of games, with Dusk being a Brutal Doom or Serious Sam Episode 2 clone and Wrath being very similar to a Quake custom map. It all depends on what type each person likes.

About the negative parts, Dusk is too repetitive and the gameplay is all horizontal with almost non-existant layout, and Wrath has the issue that as it is like a Quake custom map, for now it lacks any drive for the player to go forward or any story, less than with Quake.

triple_agent wrote:

I am not very much up to date with anything particularly going on in the game dev industry - big or small - therefore cannot tell; but I have heard of 'Dusk' and saw a 'Youtube' poster of 'Aeon' somewhere around on the 'modDB' portal; did not fancy looking deeper, though.

If you want to get interested in the topic, here you have a good summary and comments about most of them out there.
https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61525

Last edited by Cocerello (2021-07-11 09:29:57)

#5 2021-07-11 09:24:10

Gila
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

Dusk does not use Quake engine, it's using Unity. I don't get why that title gets so much praise like it's some 'retro shooter revival' gold standard. I think it got this recognition being one of the first, if not the first modern entry in this 'retro shooter revival' wave.

WRATH: Aeon of Ruin does run on the Quake engine variant. I really liked what I saw in the Early Access version of it, but I didn't play it too much because I know in the final version I will have to replay the hub again. I do hope they will really polish it up and the title would be successful. I remember seeing first screens and models from it on func_msgboard back in like 2017, way before it got picked by 3DRealms.

It feels like most of these 'retro shooters' focus on wrong things - they tout this 'low quality' graphics (remember Quake was all brown, our game is like that) and 'hardcore' difficulty (remember Blood being hard, our game is like that) as defining features but back in the day such graphics were actually cutting edge and even despite those limitations (320x200 and 256 colors) the artists and designers squeezed everything they could out of what they had. And most of the games back then had several difficulty modes so even a low-skilled people could get into them as well.

To me a great example of 'retro shooter' is Ion Fury - first of all, it's actually using the original Build Engine from 90s (even uses tracker music format!), but of course tweaked and improved, and it does exactly what it claims to be: a game in the spirit of titles like Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Blood. And it's not something that was quickly slapped together either, if you look at textures and sprites you see how much thought and work went into it. The level design, music, etc is great too. I really hope WRATH will turn out the same: a worthy spiritual Quake-engine successor.

#6 2021-07-11 09:43:02

Cocerello
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

Gila wrote:

Dusk does not use Quake engine, it's using Unity. I don't get why that title gets so much praise like it's some 'retro shooter revival' gold standard. I think it got this recognition being one of the first, if not the first modern entry in this 'retro shooter revival' wave.

I suppose because it fits what became the cliché about videogames back then and how supposedly games nowadays are mainly for the other cliché called casual gamers. Let's say that it is easier to understand simplified clichés and tag than the reality, even though they are wrong as only Serious Sam Episode 2 and Serious Sam 2 fit that cliché, and they are more recent than those.

There is also that compared with the optimized for consoles shooters by turning them into slow and static paced ones, any first person shooting videogame before Counter Strike (the mod for Half-Life) looks like Serious Sam Episode 2 in comparison, hence Dusk seems to fit.

#7 2021-07-11 13:36:13

triple_agent
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

Cocerello wrote:

If you want to get interested in the topic, here you have a good summary and comments about most of them out there.
https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61525

Thanks, I have read some of the pages; certain users make very good points, but eventually the discussion has turned into a supremacist banter - even though this could be me, not understanding the local sense of humour. In the end, what should one expect? Nothing new under the sky - there is still sin in the world.

Just like in the social war of generations - the old school thinks the new school are trashbin-heads who know nothing about doing things right; the new school thinks the old school fail to see the days of old are gone now and whatever comes, it is not going to be like that of old.

To each their own, I guess. One thing is for sure. The spice, must flow. Watch your spice.

#8 2021-07-11 15:09:06

Cocerello
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

triple_agent wrote:
Cocerello wrote:

If you want to get interested in the topic, here you have a good summary and comments about most of them out there.
https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61525

Thanks, I have read some of the pages; certain users make very good points, but eventually the discussion has turned into a supremacist banter - even though this could be me, not understanding the local sense of humour. In the end, what should one expect? Nothing new under the sky - there is still sin in the world.

Just like in the social war of generations - the old school thinks the new school are trashbin-heads who know nothing about doing things right; the new school thinks the old school fail to see the days of old are gone now and whatever comes, it is not going to be like that of old.

Haha it may seem like that to you, but most of it is more akin to a techinical discussion on which were the characteristics of those videogames back then and Quake in particular and how close these new games get close to it.

Then if you do no like those analysis just stick to the links to the videos and demos there ;)

Last edited by Cocerello (2021-07-11 15:09:30)

#9 2021-07-11 16:37:46

triple_agent
Member

Re: What do you think of Dusk & Wrath: Aeons of Ruins?

@'Cocerello', the discussion looks very charming, but I am afraid the "analysis" part ends up pretty quickly; afterwards, it is mostly opinionating. It seems to me that the majority of essential observations, are expressed on the very first page.

In my opinion, it is hard to mimick an old school FPS game without minding the technological background of that game. In other words, if one picks up a modern 'Unity' engine - for example - and announces the will to recreate some very old school FPS experience - good luck with that. I am no expert in this field, but I assume if one wants to drive a classic car, one needs to work with classic technology - otherwise, it is all just a classic body on a modern core, which could drastically impact the way how the car drives, feels and behaves.

I would actually rather see what developers can do with an old engine brought to modern standard, in a case like that; even though - such as it was pointed out in the discussion you linked - few commercial developers would probably feel like investing in an obsolete technology, minding the limits. Contemporary developers do what is reasonable - although restoration and alteration, is not about reason, but passion.

Aim for profit and work against a deadline, is understandably a big factor determining what does one choose.

Quote from a post #22 - by a user 'killpixel' - posted on 2017/11/15 19:27:42 - reference:

level design is the very core of a good FPS. you can have a phenomenal aesthetic and clever ai, but that is absolutely no substitute for real, good level design. inversely, a game can have a lackluster aesthetic and dumb ai but still be a very good game by virtue of it's level design. IMO, if one had to choose a single most important aspect of a game it would be this. sadly, level design seems to me the most overlooked in the modern retro FPS scene.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-11 17:05:00)

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