#1 2021-07-08 07:47:48

Alex Ros
Member

Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

I was born on 1980 so I practically grew up on Wolf3D, Doom, Quake... And I didn't play Quake since than. But lately stumbled upon Dusk game. Next Wrath: Aeon. So I decided to look around what's up with Quake modding. I found Arcane Dimensions and Dwell big mods (better to say DLC's). Any recommendations of Quake mods similar in quality & scape as Arcane Dimensions and Dwell? THANKS in advance

By the way. I've looked thru maps presented here. And I've seen only a feeew outdoor nature maps. Why is that so? To me it seems like TrenchBroom allows to make forests, etc
*I've been modding Stalker, Amnesia, some modelling for gamebanana, so I do understand how it works, terminology, etc

Last edited by Alex Ros (2021-07-08 07:49:41)

#2 2021-07-08 21:31:25

aianson
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

There is so much to sort through.. A simple pack that requires only quake is dopa. Quoth is another must play and more recently the copper mod along with udob.

There is so much more but I'll stop there.

#3 2021-07-09 03:34:03

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

From what I know, 'Copper' polishes some gameplay mechanics, while 'Quoth' is primarily a case of assets for the mapmakers.

Since you already know the 'Arcane Dimensions' - probably a most complete 'Quake' alternative in existence - maybe The Punishment Due would be of some fancy to you - an episode-style venture of five stages, based on the 'Copper' mod, with modern level design philosophy?

#4 2021-07-09 07:10:50

huanlopan
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

#5 2021-07-09 09:39:14

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Wow. Thanks guys! I mean real THANKS. Definetly gonna try everything. Even by screenshots all projects you mention look jaw dropping

#6 2021-07-09 10:59:44

h4724
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Copper is probably my favourite mod, although the mod itself is deliberately limited in scope in order to try and make the best of what already exists in Quake. Underdark Overbright is an episode released with and for Copper, and it includes some of my favourite maps of all time. It's already been recommended, but The Punishment Due is another excellent episode. I'd recommend playing UDOB first though, as it's partly designed to introduce some of Copper's changes and features.

Other than that, if we're speaking purely in terms of scope, Alkaline is probably the next best thing to AD, the main difference being that Alkaline is focused entirely on techbase, scifi and industrial maps

#7 2021-07-11 01:26:05

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Even though in no shape or form any match for the quality level of releases you mentioned as reference, @'Alex Ros', the Altar of Storms, is a highly impressive modpack of great gameplay charm and noteworthy wealth in custom assets use.

For the sake of history - as I recognize it - you could give the Rubicon 2 and the Rubicondome a brief try. Forgive me, though, if these will not meet your level of expectations. What is interesting about the "Rubicondome", is that it is a chain-map; an amalgamation of few smaller pieces, put together - one would not very much even notice, without being told!

#8 2021-07-11 07:18:02

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

I'll try Altar of Storms too. Thanks again

As for Rubicon I don't like such style in general. You know all those dystopian social science fiction like 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World. It's not critical, I can play it of course, but now for now

For now I am playing Heresy's 3 maps. Really cool. Enjoing it

PS. Among those mentioned above Underdark Overbright was the best in my opinion. Really like it
The Punishment Due was way too chaotic in styles. While impressive technically.
Something Wicked This Way Comes was way too 'heretical'. It's fine but not for now. I want to stick to 'quakey' moods for now
Alkaline & Arcanum are awaiting yet...

#9 2021-07-11 08:41:13

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

@'Alex Ros', cool; if you find something looking specifically worthwhile to your taste, mention it in this thread.

#10 2021-07-11 10:21:07

Cocerello
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Have not played many maps with overdetailed brushwork so i cannot help with recommnedations, but about this question of yours i can explain a bit.

Alex Ros wrote:

By the way. I've looked thru maps presented here. And I've seen only a feeew outdoor nature maps. Why is that so?

Because of how Quake works, a place where you can see a lot at a time both increase compiling times for the map and work on the computer when playing exponentially, so they are less common. There is also that Quake was never intended that way and works best in dark places, so there is less assets and tools to make that interesting or atractive.

Also when creating maps with natural places, there is the issues that creating angled brushwork calls for compiling errors which arise to problems when playing, and that trees and bushes loook lame with low polygon models hence things like the dead trees in Quoth were created a long time after.

There was lots of attempts at that in 1996-98 but it was found out to be not something that could work well, specially when natural places where involved and only recently https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/bindingtower2.html has managed a good result on that, in my opinion, with a more cartoon-like aproach.

#11 2021-07-12 08:54:13

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

triple_agent wrote:

@'Alex Ros', cool; if you find something looking specifically worthwhile to your taste, mention it in this thread.

Dwell. I liked that a lot. To me it was similar as AD in quality https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/dwellv1p2.html Especially when you come out of Egyptian maps into medieval satanical castles. Very much recommended. Not to mention that it goes as continuous episode not as separate maps, which is better for immersion in my humble opinion

triple_agent wrote:

...specifically worthwhile to your taste...

Specifically to my taste my fav maps all time are Oxyblack Fortress, Forgotten Sepulcher and Foggy Bottom. But I must say I didn't play a lot of maps/mods... I am sure I am missing a lot of maps of the same complexity.

Cocerello wrote:

There was lots of attempts at that in 1996-98 but it was found out to be not something that could work well, specially when natural places where involved and only recently https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/bindingtower2.html has managed a good result on that, in my opinion, with a more cartoon-like aproach.

Well I watched a playthru and it looks nice actually. I don't want to play it, I agree it is cartoonish. But the attempt itself looks like a perspective direction. I think it might work with better trees. Maybe a bit animated like falling leaves, I dont know, maybe

Last edited by Alex Ros (2021-07-12 09:00:16)

#12 2021-07-12 18:58:45

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

@'Cocerello', in terms of foliage and greenery, how would you evaluate the start map in Realm of the Lost? "Realm of the Lost", is on my iron list, but I have not played it just yet - therefore, I am unable to simultaneously opinionate on it in the wider notions of this thread, otherwise for the selected aspect in question.

@'Alex Ros', your taste differs from mine, to an extent - as it seems - which is why, I am interested in what maps you find particularly appealing.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-12 19:00:33)

#13 2021-07-12 23:29:14

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

triple_agent wrote:

@'Alex Ros', your taste differs from mine, to an extent - as it seems - which is why, I am interested in what maps you find particularly appealing.

Well since then I loved that map https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mfxsp10.html

Last edited by Alex Ros (2021-07-12 23:29:51)

#14 2021-07-13 23:08:21

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Biome is really nice. Highly detailed https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/biome-pritchard.html

#15 2021-07-14 03:37:30

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Alex Ros wrote:

Biome is really nice. Highly detailed https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/biome-pritchard.html

Time to collide opinions.

Base-themed maps done under the modern 'Arcane Dimensions' modpack, played with the particle-effect support of engines such as the latest 'QSS', have this kind of specific, oniric appeal to them; drawing them somewhat closer to 'Star Wars' than 'Aliens' in terms of vibe - maps such as the one you mention or the Deep Research, for another example, speaking of the headmost.

I am not a big fan of the 'Star Wars' altogether, neither did I play any game in that franchise.

Basing on these assumptions, if I was personally to map with the use of 'Arcane Dimensions' technology - speculatively speaking only - it would rather be of runic/metal/mystic theme, more than of base/industrial one.

Opportunistically speaking, who knows, maybe the mystic theme, is closer to my heart than the industrial?

Exemplary base-themed map more to my sort of liking within the vein, is The Machinery; comes with a custom soundtrack by the map author - free listen here. I also felt fascinated with a vibe of Organic Dissociation; the map uses custom textures from a certain non-PC 'Dead Space' release.

By the way, 'Dead Space 2', is a bummer.

Let us agree to disagree and have a constructive conversation built on that!

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-14 04:25:09)

#16 2021-07-14 07:45:28

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

I don't like Star Wars too actually. While I am a BIG FAN of Alien and Alien 3 in particular, dark gloomy slow-paced movies. Not to mention that Alien 3 was shot by David Fincher and I am a fan of his Se7en movie, one of the best all time among thrillers, atmospheric as nothing else...

Anyway as for games me too I prefer castles atmosphere. In Quake in particalar. That's why I liked Wrath: Aeon of Ruin - it's strictly heretical medieval theme & atmosphere wise. And that's the reason why Alkaline didn't appeal to me. I am simply not a fan of cosmic industrial themes. While from time to time I can appreciate some maps. As for "Biome" it's made in industrial rusted Silent Hill mood, and since I love Silent Hill... you know
* The one and only game in 3rd person I ever played. I hate 3rd person view, it ruins immersion completely. For me personally of course, no offence. But Silent Hill environments, monsters, atmosphere are so cool so I couldn't resist and played 2nd, 3rd & 4th parts

As for some other maps I liked then here you go. I loved small map "Entering the City of Pale" by mr. Bal. It's from 2018 Xmas Jam limited with 1024 dimensions. You can watch it briefly if you'd like to here https://youtu.be/euyJa1rOZGg
* By the way that's a nice Greenwood channel. He's a mapper and playing maps made by others. Mostly good in some way or another

As for AD my fav maps are Sepulcher and Fogbottom. Both are medieval and extremely complex & detailed. That's what I like the most. Not to mention they are both gloomy rusty. I prefer that. That's why Tears of the False God is not among favs - while I like it and a lot, masterpiece.

This map https://youtu.be/kw3ot3cO7FI is nice visually, but I don't like enclosed layout. Feels like a multiplayer map and I am not a fan of multiplaying

Last edited by Alex Ros (2021-07-14 07:57:35)

#17 2021-07-14 09:08:03

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

For the "Fogbottom", I felt like it was spamming with scripted events tad bit too much - to the point where it became frustrating; simply being unable to traverse even a fairly short distance without something interrupting the way between. I think the overcomplexity of these maps - with "Sepulcher" included in the mention - is both their strongest and their weakest point. It certainly shows genuine dedication of a mapper, as well as the ability to manage the technology in use, but too much, remains too much. Perhaps I am a believer in the old statement that in some cases, less means more - or maybe I just dig the ascetic approach a bit more.

I will certainly play "Entering the City of Pale" - along with other related maps - when I finally reach the X-mas jams done for the 'Arcane Dimensions'.

#18 2021-07-14 09:24:42

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

By the way I prefer to play easy or normal in order to traverse thru maps without that much of monsters-spamming. It feels more natural while still challenging. On hard & nightmare - I've checked - it's over crowded really

triple_agent wrote:

...when I finally reach the X-mas jams done for the 'Arcane Dimensions'.

They're even included to addons section on ModDB page https://www.moddb.com/mods/arcane-dimensions/addons In fact there are Xmas Jams only! Plus Oxyblack Fortress

#19 2021-07-18 14:07:30

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Alex Ros wrote:

By the way I prefer to play easy or normal in order to traverse thru maps without that much of monsters-spamming.

Sounds reasonable; better to play through ten maps on normal difficulty level and finish them, rather than to get angry repetitively and just rage quit majority halfway through. I believe most developers design their levels to be first-played on normal. If someone likes a map and wants to give it another go, then the other difficulty levels await. That is probably how it should be, I think.

I have just played through the "X-mas jam 2017" for 'Arcane Dimensions'. My personal standout, is the map of 'dumptruck_ds' - a member on this forum and a veteran of 'Quake' mapping discord; also you would know him by his 'Youtube' mapping tutorials. Anyway, the map, entitled "Remains in a Manger" - jam codename "xmasjam_dumptruck". Amazing dark 'Quake' vibe, decent soundscape - which is rare up to nowadays in the 'Quake' mapping scene, believe-it-or-not - excellent sense of space and choice of entities, furthermore, it is even on topic with the premise of the X-mas thing! The progress trajectory throughout the stage is clear enough, outlined with rather somber text-hints, but the finale is not so much obvious, though; took me a while to figure out that the entity on top of a pillar, is not actually a torch.

#20 2021-07-22 21:10:13

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

triple_agent wrote:

@'Alex Ros', cool; if you find something looking specifically worthwhile to your taste, mention it in this thread.

Roba El Ehaliyeh by Ionous from xMas Jam 19 is a little masterpiece. As engaging as tight. Secrets and exploration are nature of that map. Not to mention that as a hero you're collecting AlHazred tomes (character by Lovecraft whom I adore) and that's cute actually

#21 2021-07-24 19:38:17

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Alex Ros wrote:

I loved small map "Entering the City of Pale" by mr. Bal. It's from 2018 Xmas Jam limited with 1024 dimensions.

Indeed a very impressive map, done with a lot of love and constructive effort. Despite having an outlook of a complex layout, it plays out most intuitively, feeling like an adventure; it has good flow. "Entering the City of Pale", looks to myself like a far cousin of "The Oxyblack Fortress" - placed though in a less grim setting or in a spot of the same setting, only of less grim nature. The acidic lake surrounding the architecture - apart from being a successful space management utility - reminded me of a movie I saw a long time ago: 'The Neverending Story 2' - just a tidbit. The acidic lake, is all I remember from the movie in particular.

Nevertheless, my standout in the "X-mas jam 2018", is a map called "Shadow and Flame" - jam codename: "xmasjam2018_ionous" - by 'Ionous'. I like the theme it embraces, the artistic style, the way how efficiently space is being managed; but also how it plays around with certain patterns of traditional 'Quake' level design, interrupting them with intent, in order to build something further on that.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-24 20:03:27)

#22 2021-07-28 13:19:25

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

huanlopan wrote:

Quoth's Map Jam 9 is a stellar showcase of Quoth.
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/func_mapjam9_2.html

"Func Map Jam 9 - Contract Revoked", is a stellar showcase of the contemporary 'Quake'.

Rarely ever does it happen so that an entire jam, was recommendable, beyond just a few outstanding entries; even though, not even this jam, is free from some rough-around-the-edges "experimentations".

The main merit in the jam - outside of the 'Quoth' mod innovations - is the superb architecture; just for that architecture, it is worth to be given a go. The main flaw, in turn, is the difficulty level balance, which does sometimes feel like having been insufficiently playtested for doability. Do not be ashamed to simply "god-mode" places, I do not think some of the setups are entirely fair.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-28 13:50:01)

#23 2021-07-28 14:20:30

Gila
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

triple_agent wrote:

The main flaw, in turn, is the difficulty level balance, which does sometimes feel like having been insufficiently playtested for doability. Do not be ashamed to simply "god-mode" places, I do not think some of the setups are entirely fair.

Man, just yesterday I was remembering Contract Revoked: The Lost Chapters which had the same problem. Nice maps, but the difficulty was all over the place. Maybe there should be some informal community standard adopted for these things. If readme says "id1-like difficulty" then you know exactly how it's gonna be. If it says "id+1" that means you better take it down a notch and maybe go Normal instead of Hard", etc... Then again such evaluations might be subjective. It's just that sometimes you realize that perhaps you picked the wrong difficulty mode and you're already halfway into the level.

Last edited by Gila (2021-07-28 14:23:06)

#24 2021-08-02 14:44:06

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Func Map Jam 6 - Fire and Brimstone https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mapjam6.html is gorgeus. 'Chages in Fortune' map is one of the best I've played. It's kinda clumsy sometimes visually, way too quakey-original while I prefer AD and sort of, but it's so complex and big map to the state that nothing matters. It's just great and that's it. Very much recommended

#25 2021-08-02 21:03:56

triple_agent
Member

Re: Didn't play Quake for 25 years...

Alex Ros wrote:

Func Map Jam 6 - Fire and Brimstone

It is on my list; unfortunately, I have limited time to play, so maybe it will need to wait.

Speaking of map jams; the "X-mas jam" events for 'Arcane Dimensions', get better and better every year, I am eager to see what will they come up with next; telling in the aftermath of my "X-mas jam 2020" playthrough. No, it is not perfect, but it is very nice. You know how it is with a jam; sometimes it is a hit and sometimes it is a miss, but in this case, there are more hits than misses.

Shifting to another case:

Alex Ros wrote:

way too quakey-original while I prefer AD and sort of

I understand your perspective, albeit the vanilla-style maps - faithful to original 'Quake' principles - are decent to play with the 'Copper' mod, which adds great elegance to the classic gameplay formula. Lately, I have played The Grim Outpost and Dead But Dreaming this way, to emerge inspired and interested. Good old 'Quake' is still good, with some cool or maybe classy refreshment. "The Grim Outpost", is morelike an enhanced version of a stage from a classic, early 'Quake' episode, while "Dead But Dreaming", tends to embrace somewhat more modern, hardcore and post-retro approach, cranking up the difficulty for veterans it expects to meet.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-08-28 22:43:25)

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