#1 2022-01-12 08:12:55

basementApe
Member

The Deep mod: beta 3

Hiya!

This here is my first map (and second if start maps count), intended to be the first in a five-map episode. There's quite a bit of new stuff in here including:

- 3 all new monsters.

- Tweaks to several vanilla monsters to make them fit better in an underwater setting.

- Several new props and item pickups.

- Uses the latest version of the Quake 2 Marines mod (v1.13).


Try it out with the link below. All feedback much appreciated!


1.png

2.png

3.png

4.png

Download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gnToJO … sp=sharing

EDIT:

Beta 4 Update:

- Fixed the aim for the Q2 weapons so it lines up properly with the crosshair.

- Fixed elevator #2, you can't get stuck there anymore.

- Made it so you can hold the grenade throw until you release the 'attack' button, the way it is in Quake 2 (I think).

Download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jCUa8g … sp=sharing

Last edited by basementApe (2022-01-13 14:36:07)

#2 2022-01-12 13:46:48

Custom Longplay
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

I liked your first level very much and especially the idea with the water area and the large rooms where you still have an overview are very well designed. I'm already looking forward to the coming levels. The secret under the lift was well placed. The first time I thought, how am I going to get out again and I hadn't seen the secret at all. So I thought there was a mistake. The enemies are well placed and I like them too.

Here is another 100% solved level!

The Deep (basementApe) - [4K] - [100% Secrets]

Last edited by Custom Longplay (2022-01-12 13:48:01)

#3 2022-01-12 16:53:32

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

I will be on it soon; early observation is that the 'Quake 2' guns may be slightly misaligned with 'Quake' crosshair.

Apart from that, model number "3" does not work; I have 'Quake 2' male soldier under "1", 'Quake 2' female soldier under "2", then there is the malfunctioning "3" and there is the 'Quake 2' cyborg under "4".

It would be good, furthermore, to be able to confirm the choice of a protagonist model with "jump" key, alternatively to "attack" key.

I think on the model selection screen, you should put full info on what keys or functions are operable.

EDIT:

"rotgut/rotgut_4.wav" - problem with that sample.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-12 17:22:40)

#4 2022-01-12 17:58:34

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Hey thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated :)

Custom Longplay wrote:

I liked your first level very much and especially the idea with the water area and the large rooms where you still have an overview are very well designed. I'm already looking forward to the coming levels. The secret under the lift was well placed. The first time I thought, how am I going to get out again and I hadn't seen the secret at all. So I thought there was a mistake. The enemies are well placed and I like them too.

Thanks! Yea I was curious about the secrets. Too hard to find? Too easy? Looks like they're alright :)


triple_agent wrote:

I will be on it soon; early observation is that the 'Quake 2' guns may be slightly misaligned with 'Quake' crosshair.

Coolness. Yep that problem's been around from the start. I think the best way to fix it might be to have two projectiles; one for show that doesn't actually collide with anything and one true projectile that's invisible and traces from the player pos without any offset. I'm gonna experiment with that and see how it works.

triple_agent wrote:

Apart from that, model number "3" does not work; I have 'Quake 2' male soldier under "1", 'Quake 2' female soldier under "2", then there is the malfunctioning "3" and there is the 'Quake 2' cyborg under "4".

Wow that's strange. 1 is supposed to select Ranger and 2-4 for the Q2 marines. Do you get an error message? If not, something to do with key bindings maybe?

triple_agent wrote:

It would be good, furthermore, to be able to confirm the choice of a protagonist model with "jump" key, alternatively to "attack" key.

I think on the model selection screen, you should put full info on what keys or functions are operable.

I agree on that. You can actually pick different skins for the Q2 models by either scrolling the mouse-wheel or tapping 1-4 again. Most people seem to miss it the way it is now.

triple_agent wrote:

"rotgut/rotgut_4.wav" - problem with that sample.

Yea it's a stereo sample I forgot to convert. Some source ports don't like those.

#5 2022-01-12 20:20:47

Andrew
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

I liked everything. An interesting map and musical accompaniment correspond. Still, in this map there are half-flooded areas with flowing streams of water like in a Bioshock, then it would be great at all! And I would also like to see a whole episode with flooded bases in the future.

If the models "enforcer", "zombie", "ogre", "demon", "wizard", "soldier", "player" were converted from MD5 models, then I would advise you to use my corrected animation. In it, these models are not so bow-legged, they fall correctly and do not fall into the floor. Here is the link, it has a source in the Blender (some models) and separate animation files for MD5 models. Maybe you will like some other models, for example, "backpack" and "fish". )))

https://www.quaddicted.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1017

Good luck with your developments!

#6 2022-01-13 02:28:34

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

basementApe wrote:

Wow that's strange. 1 is supposed to select Ranger and 2-4 for the Q2 marines. Do you get an error message? If not, something to do with key bindings maybe?

Right, my config was quirky, your mod works okay there. Nevertheless, if to think about if, once you say "1-4" in the game options, the user expects it to always be "1-4", regardless of own weapon keys. Therefore, at worst, you should probably override the "0-9" keys with mod specific functions, in your "quake.rc" file; that is, after loading up the custom "autoexec.cfg". Unless you figure out something more subtle.

For the models and skins; I did not see any special features for different variants - as it used to be in earlier mod versions - at least among the 'Quake 2' characters, but if you were to reintroduce any, it should be very transparent, what each skin changes, gameplaywise. Generally, be transparent, rather than not - in my opinion, obscurity, does not help in a game such as 'Quake'. But best of all, do not make things unnecessarily complex, which questions itself the purpose of varied loadouts. 'Quake', is not that complicated.

Fot the map; the initial area of "The Deep" is too similar to the ending of a start map; first time I saw it, I thought there must have been some error loop, because apparently I was teleported back to the same location.

I see you have put an "Adrenaline Pack" in the first room of "The Deep", next to the "Rebreather". Why not introduce a permanent health upgrade, based on that - like in 'Quake 2'?

For the secrets, I liked the underwater setting and exploration. I cannot believe this is your first map, it is very professional. Speaking of the underwater sections, for the sake of ease on my eyes, I have used a small cheat: "gl_cshiftpercent 37" to see more clear.

The sharks are totally awesome, good job man! You an orchestra guy, doing all stuff yourself. All the models are perfect, resembling warped and malformed creatures of the horror deep, fitting the convention exactly as needed. The ogre is most impressive.

For the 'Quake 2' mod; like I said before, the machinegun and possibly other continuous-fire guns, are rather wonky in animation, but I understand that the map, can be played - at least theoretically - separate from the mod; although the mod, adds much charm to it - like the 'Quake 2' we have never seen before. 'Quake 2' guns feel well balanced and definitely bring much good to the gameplay.

You have also imported the handgrenades, nice! Only pity is that it is impossible to "cook" them, which was big part of the handgrenade dynamics in 'Quake 2'.

BTW:

I cannot imagine you start a 'Quake 2' styled game without the iconic crashing of a protagonist ship into destination! Remember "Bitterman".

Andrew wrote:

and musical accompaniment correspond

Strange, I did not have any soundtrack playing; "couldn't find a cdrip for track 14" error msg.

EDIT:

Wait, I have found the file, had to rename it to all lowercase letters, then it worked. Damn!

On a final note, I replayed the map using traditional 'Quake' setup; here is the demo if you fancy.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-13 03:43:53)

#7 2022-01-13 12:40:16

qazzaq
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Good work!
Underwater maps have always been popular in the community. Very good color scheme of the levels, perfectly matched and recolored textures. Particularly pleased with the new fiend and ogre, as well as a beautiful model of a gas cylinder.
Some remarks:
Start map:
Should create some false door in the pool: submarine (very cute) has no way to proceed :P
First level:
Second elevator has dead end under it.
May be should add some scenery to absolutely empty corridors?

Last edited by qazzaq (2022-01-13 12:40:36)

#8 2022-01-13 14:32:47

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

First up, thanks a lot guys for the comprehensive feedback and kind words! Helps a lot:)

I've made a few updates:

- Fixed the aim for the Q2 weapons so it lines up properly with the crosshair.

- Fixed elevator #2, you can't get stuck there anymore.

- Made it so you can hold the grenade throw until you release the 'attack' button, the way it is in Quake 2 (I think).

Beta 4:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jCUa8g … sp=sharing


Andrew wrote:

If the models "enforcer", "zombie", "ogre", "demon", "wizard", "soldier", "player" were converted from MD5 models, then I would advise you to use my corrected animation. In it, these models are not so bow-legged, they fall correctly and do not fall into the floor. Here is the link, it has a source in the Blender (some models) and separate animation files for MD5 models. Maybe you will like some other models, for example, "backpack" and "fish". )))

Coool I'll check them out, the tweaks look good from the screenshots. I'm using the MD5's yea so should be no big to replace some animations.

triple_agent wrote:

For the models and skins; I did not see any special features for different variants - as it used to be in earlier mod versions - at least among the 'Quake 2' characters, but if you were to reintroduce any, it should be very transparent, what each skin changes, gameplaywise. Generally, be transparent, rather than not - in my opinion, obscurity, does not help in a game such as 'Quake'. But best of all, do not make things unnecessarily complex, which questions itself the purpose of varied loadouts. 'Quake', is not that complicated.

Yep I dropped it. Like you pointed out it adds complexity for no real good reason. Also in Q2M 1.13 you'll always get a shotgun very early on so you never have to run around with the blaster for too long. I want to add some more info to the start screen but that's a bit tricky for several reasons.

triple_agent wrote:

You have also imported the handgrenades, nice! Only pity is that it is impossible to "cook" them, which was big part of the handgrenade dynamics in 'Quake 2'.

I wasn't aware you could do that XD It's in there now.

qazzaq wrote:

Start map:
Should create some false door in the pool: submarine (very cute) has no way to proceed :P
First level:
Second elevator has dead end under it.
May be should add some scenery to absolutely empty corridors?

Those all sound good to me, thanks! Missed that elevator dead-end somehow, fixed now.

#9 2022-01-13 15:47:39

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Originally, grenade "cooking" had a distinct ticking sound to it - and it was relevant in 'Quake 2', since you had few tick sounds to throw the grenade, otherwise on the fifth tick or so, it exploded on you.

The blaster is still wonky in terms of aim; especially visible in close proximity.

BTW:

When travelling between installation wings through the underwater sections - bypassing the flooded corridor - the water surface touching the sliding floor-watergates, gives an impression of Z-fighting.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-13 16:42:19)

#10 2022-01-14 15:26:59

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Hmm I went back and tried it out in Q2. Yep, three ticks and boom! Makes sense and makes the grenade tossing ability more interesting for sure. Also noticed the splash radius is somewhat larger. I should be able to add this without too much hassle.

The blaster, yea not sure what else I can do with it tbh. What I've done so far is do a pre-fire hitscan to check distance to the nearest obstacle and then subtly adjust the angle by distance so the impact point lines up nicely with the crosshair. But up close it's not gonna be enough. It's kind of an inherent problem with having the weapons to the side of the viewpoint instead of dead-center I think. Q2 also has this problem from what I can tell.

I know the spot you're talking about, right before the zombie corridor right? Forgot about that one earlier, fixed now.

And hey man, I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this feedback. It's a big help!

#11 2022-01-14 15:36:33

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

You are welcome. I also wanted to point out that I like the recycled 'Quake 2' assets, like the tech-table visible early in the game. I mean, the table as an entity is your invention but what is on this table, comes from 'Quake 2'.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-14 15:37:11)

#12 2022-01-15 03:48:25

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Speaking of 'Quake 2' ents, I remember that this map had a functional "Grunt" model. I would change the attack to something else in it, maybe - or maybe not? Even though I see you do not use 'Quake 2' monster entities in your mod; just artifacts, maybe you could look into it.

For the ogres in your map, I find it yet somewhat awkward that creatures of the abyss - the fish-ogres - shoot grenades. Maybe you should make them fire clusters of spikes, which would be more climatic?

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-15 05:48:25)

#13 2022-01-15 09:07:53

Andrew
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

And you can also try to make these amphibious ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots but more often as an enforcer. Or replace the grenade model with a green ball of slime like in Arcane Dimensions, which also exploded.

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy. (:-P)

Last edited by Andrew (2022-01-15 09:08:24)

#14 2022-01-15 15:40:28

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Andrew wrote:

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy.

Same with me - but I think it is okay to tell how does one imagine something; it is up to developer to estimate whether the thing is feasible.

Andrew wrote:

ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots

Do the zombies not already shoot green clots of sort?

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-15 15:53:09)

#15 2022-01-19 15:46:08

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

I remember that one monster from 'Quake 2', which stood out to me. It was known as the 'Medic', due to apparent ability to resurrect other opponents. It made haunting sound when engaging in a combat with protagonist and was armed with hyperblaster, if I remember correctly. Pretty much I thought the monster was tougher than it really was, but all things put together, it was a representative piece of Strogg.

EDIT:

I just watched a 'YT' vid of monster infighting in 'Quake 2' and found an interesting remark in the comments:

what if medic and let's say gunner get into a fight , and medic wins.. does he resurrect the gunner or what?

The medic will resurrect the monster it killed and then it will attack the monster it just resurrected, since it was the original target it was attacking.

I guess in 'Quake', the "Copper" mod puts limits on certain erratic game mechanics, such as monster will not chase target indefinitely, if it cannot successfully reach the target for like ten or fifteen seconds, as well as, once the monster is considered pacified in effect of infighting, the victor will find another target - at least that was the case against zombies, as far as I remember from the "readme".

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-19 16:22:06)

#16 2022-01-20 02:07:31

mastema88
Banned

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

#17 2022-01-20 03:05:59

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Excellent idea, we need more of that good stuff!

The sharks already are incredible and the artistic value of distinct shark shape, sweeping as a looming shadow beyond the reinforced glass, is supreme. That is what we need to address - the artistic value of marine world.

Further question, is the logistics of protagonist interaction with that marine world - is it interactable or only for show? The sharks, are interactable; they are a valid opponent, deadlier than the fiends effectively. What about the speculative rest; should it be likewise?

EDIT:

Not all kinds of oceanic lifeforms dwell in the same waters, though, so we need to make sure it ultimately does make sense to mix some stuff together. All in all, lots of small fish seem universal.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-20 04:08:27)

#18 2022-01-20 07:35:57

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

triple_agent wrote:

Speaking of 'Quake 2' ents, I remember that this map had a functional "Grunt" model. I would change the attack to something else in it, maybe - or maybe not? Even though I see you do not use 'Quake 2' monster entities in your mod; just artifacts, maybe you could look into it.

For the ogres in your map, I find it yet somewhat awkward that creatures of the abyss - the fish-ogres - shoot grenades. Maybe you should make them fire clusters of spikes, which would be more climatic?

Andrew wrote:

And you can also try to make these amphibious ogres shoot like a wizard with green clots but more often as an enforcer. Or replace the grenade model with a green ball of slime like in Arcane Dimensions, which also exploded.

I don't know how difficult it is to do. It's just my fantasy. (:-P)

I thought about changing the standard enemies and I haven't ruled it out. I feel like the Q1 monsters are a bit like the pieces in chess though. They all have a function and usage, and they've kinda been designed to complement each other, at least to a degree. So I feel I need to be a bit careful so I don't upset the clockwork :P

So the ogre... His chainsaw is even more out of place than his grenade launcher imo. I mean why would you bring a tool meant for cutting down trees down to an underwater base in the first place? So I thought I'd just ditch him altogether. But nah. He's too iconic, and too useful gameplay-wise, to leave out. I'll see about trying to make him fit in better somehow.

The knights have to go though. Definitely. They have no business running around in an aquatic setting. So I thought about adding a couple of new monsters to take their place mechanically. A Lovecraftian fish-people kind of deal is what I have in mind.

#19 2022-01-20 07:38:59

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

triple_agent wrote:

I remember that one monster from 'Quake 2', which stood out to me. It was known as the 'Medic', due to apparent ability to resurrect other opponents. It made haunting sound when engaging in a combat with protagonist and was armed with hyperblaster, if I remember correctly. Pretty much I thought the monster was tougher than it really was, but all things put together, it was a representative piece of Strogg.

EDIT:

I just watched a 'YT' vid of monster infighting in 'Quake 2' and found an interesting remark in the comments:

what if medic and let's say gunner get into a fight , and medic wins.. does he resurrect the gunner or what?

The medic will resurrect the monster it killed and then it will attack the monster it just resurrected, since it was the original target it was attacking.

I guess in 'Quake', the "Copper" mod puts limits on certain erratic game mechanics, such as monster will not chase target indefinitely, if it cannot successfully reach the target for like ten or fifteen seconds, as well as, once the monster is considered pacified in effect of infighting, the victor will find another target - at least that was the case against zombies, as far as I remember from the "readme".

I've had a look at that code. Wouldn't be hard to make a monster forget about its enemy for any reason so this is definitely doable. I have something like it in mind for one of the new monsters.

#20 2022-01-20 07:42:02

basementApe
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Hmm, I could always crib the octopus from Hexen 2 I guess? At least the code for it.

#21 2022-01-20 14:03:35

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

basementApe wrote:
mastema88 wrote:

can you please add manatees in some way? or octopus ?

Hmm, I could always crib the octopus from Hexen 2 I guess? At least the code for it.

There is a 'Quake' mod bringing some octopus creature into the game; the creature shoots paralyzing projectiles, which make the protagonist immobile under water for way too much time. Please do not include that feature.

basementApe wrote:

So the ogre... His chainsaw is even more out of place than his grenade launcher imo. I mean why would you bring a tool meant for cutting down trees down to an underwater base in the first place?

Good point.

Maybe the ogre, could be divided between two other functional pieces: a melee piece and a shooting piece. When it comes to melee, few other creatures stand out to me as much as the iconic 'Quake 2' berserker. When it comes to the shooting piece, maybe some kind of a turret-guy, a thing essentially low in mobility but high in firepower, perhaps something wall-mounted of sort? The thing could work well underwater. One would early need a rocket launcher to deal with that, I imagine. Nonetheless, you said the ogre is iconic and you want to keep it somehow the way it is, so why not just keep it, but use more sparsely? Eventually, the ogre could represent some absurd traits, a missing link between "Cthulhu" and "Cthulhu-tech".

The ogre - as a fish-man - could still relay solely on shooting spikes, having the melee function disabled.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-20 17:02:04)

#22 2022-01-21 03:18:22

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Speaking of ogres shooting clusters of darts, it appeared first in "Quoth", as far as I know.

Last edited by triple_agent (2022-01-21 03:19:19)

#23 2022-01-22 03:33:28

triple_agent
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

"The Deep Mod" seems a nice name, but in no way a reference to "The Dark Mod", is it?

#24 2022-01-29 14:16:26

Gokuma
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

Well this is an amazing experience and immersive atmosphere.   I beat it on a normal with a Quake 2 marine, but missed a good amount of stuff and have more exploring to do.

#25 2022-01-29 15:14:26

Andrew
Member

Re: The Deep mod: beta 3

triple_agent wrote:

"The Deep Mod" seems a nice name, but in no way a reference to "The Dark Mod", is it?

It would be great if the mod was renamed "The Abyss" and continued the theme of semi-submerged underwater bases that would go deeper and deeper (like the "Peril" mod or the "Bioshock" game). And start the adventure from the surface or from a submarine (in the style of the game "Bioshock"). Still, to add different puddles and streams of water to the maps, it would be just great. It would have turned out to be a cool episode for the game.

Last edited by Andrew (2022-01-29 15:16:03)

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