Can this be played with Copper Quake?

No, mods in Quake are exclusive and cannot be stacked. This is already using the Alkaline mod for jump boots.

One of the best jams available ever since. I don't know why but I am in the mood for longer maps and this particular jam offers A LOT of such. DragonsForLunch 30 mins / Greenwood 30 mins / Omni 30 mins / Ish 60 mins / GW_X9 60 mins / Mazu 75 mins / Juzley 90 mins. My personal favs are Mazu's, Juzley's & DragonsForLunch's. Subjectively! All in all this jam goes for 5000 out of 5. Really cool one. Recommended to all

Crap, I don't think I can play anything without Copper anymore. Bummer.

I only played Mazu's map so far, thrilling as expected. It is way more reasonable than his SMEJ Jam monstrosity. Secrets are claimed to be mandatory in Hard / Nightmare, but I only found 15/37 of them and I'm about a hundred kills short, so I expect large hidden areas remain to be found.

It's nice to read that this jam features many large maps, I'll get to them following Alex Ros' suggestions.

Ish skill selection map looks incomplete - after high lift there is a strfnge ledge without anything. And there is a very high jump to skill3 terminal. Looks like there must be second boots after lift?

Juzley's map is brilliant. But I can't find that damn 50th board...

Some maps in here that I love, some that I don't get on with at all, some that are nice little debuts.

I'll just post a few comments about some of my favorites as I go through... this doesn't imply that I'm necessarily "subtweeting" all the ones I don't mention as being bad. :-)

I think DragonForLunch's map was the first I played. It strongly reminded me how much Alkaline can be used to create a great coherent atmosphere that is a blend of the best bits of Quake and Quake 2. A solid chunky basemap construction with well-considered touches of color.

I loved the progression in this one, the music, the use of NPCs... and DFL shows a good feel for just how to best use the boots for some mild platforming challenges, combat variety, and exploration. It sets a pretty high bar for the rest of the pack!

I got stuck on GW_X9's map pretty early. A hint from Greenwood got me moving again -- it required a "precision" jumpy thing which I would characterize more as a barely-functional janky move... hmmm. Turns out it was not the last instance of progress being blocked like that.

But after finishing the map I'd say it's fantastic in a lot of ways. I loved the feeling of mastering the place, and there's good pacing with alternation of exploration and frantic fights. Neat tableaus and setpieces too.

I think it suffers from being a jam map in a few ways:

• Some of the progress-blockers need more polish and playtesting. In some cases even just better lighting would help see what to do. But I think it's a particular issue when you have to do a kinda janky barely-successful thing to progress: first it can be difficult to tell if that's actually the intended way, and then if it turns out to work you start thinking that you should try other janky moves in the future -- which can cause frustration when 90% of those turn out to be not the thing needed.

• The experience on this map really benefits from a certain patient mindset to poke at and revisit everything. When you're in the middle of rampaging through a bunch of jam maps it can be hard to "put on the brakes" to do that.

• The last fight on skill 2 was just packed too full of big baddies. The only strategy that presents itself IMO is to cheese it with some hiding/sniping, so I did, but that didn't feel great for the climax of the map.

But it's impressive that this map was cranked out so quickly. And is this a debut map too? I'd love to see what GW_X9 could do with a non-jam-map project.

Juzley's grand collect-a-thon is a trip. Great execution of a scavenger hunt: interesting areas to uncover, good player-leading, just enough backtracking on getting new jump-boot levels. Something like this could easily have been an aimless and frustrating exercise in re-rinsing previously visited areas, but (for me) it wasn't! It all flowed very nicely.

The pickup messages for the macguffins are some perfect low-key comedy writing too.

I admit I didn't choose to go look for the last 5 boards I was missing to unlock the last bonus/secret thingy, but that's fine. :-)

Great execution of a Giger-esque theme from Omni. Seems like it could be difficult to make a map like this be readable and navigable, but Omni mostly pulls it off. Nice use of escalation in jumpboot levels too.

Paul Lawitzki's series of jump challenges was a neat thing to have in the pack! I did this on skill 2 BTW although I don't know if that affected the challenges. Lots of fail-and-instantly-restart-while-gradually-getting-better fun. (The setups and signage reminded me a little of the movement tutorial challenges in Quake Live.)

Love the alkaline mod, and some super great maps here as well. However since I'm not big on platforming, some of these maps that rely heavily on it like yellow line, the shadow and the flame or ternate sufferance have been quite frustrating. I like to kill monsters, find secrets and get a flow going, but if you like jumping around, this is the pack for you for sure! Favorite by far, early bird, 2nd favorite murder ball. Use more scuba divers guys, they're fun :)

Too much platforming and some maps, like Toxic Point, are under balanced when it comes to ammo in hard skill. This makes some of the maps feel not Quake like but more like TombRaider like.

Don't get me wrong, the deign and architecture of these levels is superb, but like I said, so much platforming and lack of ammo rendered some of these not that fun to play. As a Quake enthusiast that is.

Is it really possible to make the jump at the beginning of jjj2_plaw with the three jump boots findable until then ? or is it another way ? I can't make the jump. Cheers! ludicrous

Maybe I'll play jjj2_juzley again this weekend. For me the best of all these maps. But: was anyone here able to locate Fromitz 50? Cheers! ludicrous

ludicrous: yes, I was finally able to do it. Unfortunately it's hard to explain where to find all the boards. It was a fun surprise, but I wouldn't recommend spending too much time on it. You are not going to find yourself in some brand new huge area to explore as I had hoped.

Thank You, Gioyo3aa. But: that's it, with these secrets. The way is the goal ;-) I played the map again, until I got the double jump boots. But it's the same as before: I can't make a rule with these little round floating structures in the outer area. Not possible to get the second pair of jump boots, the one that's farther away ... I think it's a matter of time I spend. Cheers! ludicrous

Got it. Fromitz 50. I really can't find another secret in the fun surprise area, but that's okay with me. I'll give this map a year, maybe, until I play it again. And, perhaps, it will be difficult then to find it again, because I didn't really understand how I found it now .... secrets 14/20, by the way. I'm fully satisfied now. Cheers! ludicrous

Here I come again, waaay behind the cutting edge, reviewing a map pack that everyone else has moved on from! We start with Jump-action Shotgun (jjj2_dfl), and what an excellent start it is. Some interesting novel mechanics, some snipey combats and some brutal, and a lovely Portal-ish atmosphere. Great stuff.

The Yellow Trail (jjj2_plaw) is a series of very difficult-to-execute jumping puzzles. It's very clever and absolutely no fun whatsoever. Long before the end I went into fly mode and found even that insanely difficult. In the end, a combination of fly, god and occasional noclip got me through to the exit. My hat is off to anyone who can complete this level legitimately. I have neither the skills nor the patience to even make a serious attempt -- not where there are so many fun maps to play.

I have very mixed feelings about Toxicity Point (jjj2_hcm). On one hand, it's a lovely big map with some fun combats and some satisfying secrets, especially once you get the second pair of jump-boots. On the other hand, the difficulty is badly unbalanced. I usually play on Hard, and across the experience of playing and rating 652 releases (and counting!) I have developed a solid feeling of what Hard means in Quake. The first third of this map is way beyond Nightmare level on Hard, mostly because of the chronic lack of ammunition. Yet if I'd backed down to Normal and restarted, I would have found the last two thirds too easy, because at a certain point things relax. I ended up glad that I had just God-Mode-And-Axed my way through the sillier parts of the first third, so I could settle in and enjoy the rest.

My suspicion is that there is a pair of jump-boots early on which I missed, and that finding these would have been a total game-changer, both in terms of being able to get more ammo from high-up secrets, and in avoiding ground-based enemies like fiends. But it's a design error to make the gameplay experience so dependent on the randomness of finding or not finding an early secret.

Moonrust (jjj2_shades) is an altogether more tractable affair -- still difficult, and requiring careful use of the powerups to deal with some situations that might otherwise feel unfair. I certainly could have used the quad for the final battle, but never figured out how to open the grating that conceals it. As it was, start from more than 200 health, I finished on 15!

Is Murder Ball by Ish a joke? All I see in the map is a Skill Zero terminal, a pair of boots, and the exit. No kills, no secrets.

Oh, I see -- I should have gone through the exit before asking that question.

MikeTayler, about jjj2_hcm, the difficulty of a map is up to it's author, not you the player. Mazu had the decency of putting a warning text at the beginning of the map, if you wanted to ignore it that's on you, not on them.

It was my favourite map of the pack, many of us players have also been playing this game for years, and welcome some tougher maps like these, wish there were more! Difficulty settings are there for a reason, and sticking to one difficulty is a disservice to the work of mappers.

Bal, I'm not insensitive to the position you take here. My counterpoint is twofold.

First, over the last 26 years, a consensus has grown up around what "Hard" means in Quake. Harder difficulty is available as Nightmare, and these days also Hell. Why shift an existing scale?

But second, and more important, is the inconsistency of the difficulty. As I said, the first 1/3 is much harder than the remaining 2/3. If 'd done as you suggest and restarted the map on Normal, I would have found two thirds of the map too easy.

Last thing I want to say on this, though: regardless of my complaints, HCM made a great thing and gave it away for free, and I love that. He or she owes me absolutely nothing. Whatever complaints I have are offered in the spirit of "here's how it could have been even better", and absolutely not intended with any sense of "you let me down"!

Mike, there is no such thing as "consensus" on what hard is, hard simply is the hardest option because spawnflags for nightmare do not exist for most mods.

Shift is needed because most people make hard too boring for good players. There is so much more mappers can do with more challenging gameplay and I hope they do not get trapped into some arbitrary idea what hard should be.

Yes, my map is slightly inconsistent with difficulty, but that is subjective as that depends how you go from low ammo gameplay to obtaining all weapons. Plus it was made in a 6 day rush so my testing and adjusting is not perfect here.

Thanks for your feedback on things that I know I can improve and acknowledging that this is all free, but I will kindly disagree with your views of overall Quake gameplay.

OK, Mazu, thanks.

On to Murder Ball (jjj2_ish), which in my first play I completely misinterpreted, taking the skill-select area for the actual map! The map is a completely different kettle of fish, mixing some things that I love with others that I hate to yield a bewildering amalgum that I find hard to have a coherent opinion about.

To get the worst flaw out of the way, this is another map that is extremely difficult in the first third or so, then suddenly becomes a lot easier. As with Mazu's map, this odd difficulty profile arises primarily from the lack of ammunition in the early stages. I had to try over and over and over before I found a path through the first 20 kills or so that left me both alive and also holding some ammo. Once that was negotiated, the rest of the map become a lot more fun to play, with a strange decaying industrial base to explore, along with the toxic sewers beneath. The geography remains baffling in places, but it's not too obscure for you to be able to find your way.

I got as far as recovering the silver key, with 145/165 kills and 7/14 secrets, before running into a brick wall. I can use the silver key to get a pentagram, as many times as necessary, but I can't figure out a way to use the pentagram to progress any further. You'd think the solution would be in the lava pit, but if it is then a dozen expeditions have failed to uncover it. So at this point, I just noclipped through the door under the silver-key button, and finished up the map from there.

All in all, an unsatisfactory experience -- but one that could be outstanding with minor tweaks: a bit more ammo early on, better signposting of what to do next.

Not only is The Early Bird Gets The 17-Centimeter Fromitz Board (jjj2_juzley) by far my favourite map in this jam so far, it also has the coolest name. I love the progression mechanism (gather fromitz boards to gain access to level-one, and then level-two jump boots) and the individual areas are, without exception, fun to play. Tough -- sometimes very tough -- but fair. Lots to explore, lots to kill, lots of ammo to do it with! Immersive atmosphere, too.

I ended with 432/445 kills and 10/20 secrets -- but also, crucially, 48/50 fromitz boards. Agonizingly close to opening the secret area at the end that I assume contains most or all of the other 13 kills. Oh well: I will just have to come back and play it again!

Battery Acid (jjj2_magnetbox) is a fun sequence of more or less separate challenges, but no sense of place, theme or atmosphere develops. Worth playing.

OK, I can't get started at all on The Shadow and the Flame (jjj2_konig). All I can do in the first room is fall through the floor. I can delay falling into the trap by landing on the ledges above, but triggering the trap seems to be the way to open the gate above. How can I escape the crusher? Hints, please!

Meanwhile, Qua*bert (jj2_wiedo) is a recreation of Q*Bert in Quake, and falls firmly into the category of "your mappers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should". I did complete the map, but without really understanding how or why.

Armagon's Lair (jjj2_eduardo) is OK, presenting a few combats along the way to a henchman, then a boss. But it all feels very thrown together, with no unity of style, block rooms, bland lighting, and way, way, way too much ammo and jump boots. I think I ended up with five pairs, and no real use for them in the later, more difficult parts of the map.

@MikeTaylor For jjj2_konig, you can activate the floor trap without falling into it by jumping towards the gate. This will also open the gate, allowing you to get the Jump Boots.

Played on Nightmare/Hell difficulty. No saves, aims for 100% completion.

DISCLAIMER: despite being obviously a quality mod, I don't like Alkaline too much... I am a vanilla guy! :)

• Greenwood: a huge tower so you gotta go up and up which is a neat idea - main downside is that a lot of foes are shooting at you from afar nonstop, and that's irritating after a while. 3.5/5

• DragonsForLunch: a cool techbase, liked the mood of this one a lot. probably the best start to this jam and its gimmick. sadly fights were decent at best. 3.5/5

• Eduardos maps: not too bad albeit those maps are a lot more "amateur" than the rest. there is no balance at all and they quickly turn into bloodbath. 2/5

• GW_X9: I am sure this is a great map, but only once you have figured it out. until then, it's very confusing and rather frustrating. couldn't find where to use the 2 last bombs. cannot rate this one fairly.

• Mazu: I am a big Mazu fanboy and that map is pure awesomeness - some tidbits of trickjumping, a lot of secrets and cool fights all around. ressource management is key. fairly easy but don't get too cocky! 5/5

• Ish: while this is a fun map, it's a bit unclear and most of the mandatory stuff is kinda hidden... I probably spent 20 minutes just wandering around. rather challenging start too! 3/5

• Juzley: simply put, an excellent techbase map. quite long but the map isn't too big. great level design, clean visuals. a bit on the easy side but things can get nasty quickly. 5/5

• Konig: loads of traps and a bit cryptic tbh. I like axing knights and seeing them triggering all sorts of deadly hazards, so that one wasn't too bad for me. 2.5/5

• Magnetbox: about the same as Eduardos maps. it's not as crazy unbalanced but the level design is worse and hardly ressembles anything. definitely not the worst but far from good. 2/5

• Omni: nice map overall with a bunch of cool textures and the fights are fun. too bad the end was a bit dumb - just get yourself a trifecta and spam for 30 seconds... 3/5

• Paul: movement-based map. if you know how to bunny/aircontrol, this is pretty chill. otherwise, I don't think you are going to have a nice time here... still worth a try tho. 3.5/5

• Quasiotter: a puzzle/exploration "thing" as it's not really a map, let alone a quake map. it's pretty short so it ain't too bad at least. no rating for that one.

• Shadesmaster: using doom 2 textures in a quake map is a sin imo. for shadesmaster, this is quite a subpar map but maybe I should blame Alkaline for that one... 2.5/5

• Wiedo: hard to describe, simply land on a tile to turn it yellow. to finish the level, every tile must be yellow. obviously, there are things and they don't want you to do that... 2/5

Overall: me not liking Alkaline made this jam a bit tiresome at times BUT if you like this mod, you should definitely give this one a shot. otherwise, don't forget to AT LEAST play Juzley's map... and Mazu's map also! :)

Thanks, Arcane Fiend!

Like Johnny Law above, I am ambivalent about Ternate Sufferance (jjj2_gw_x9). There is so much great stuff in here that feels unfair to major on criticisms. But I found it really hard to get started -- had to watch a video to figure out how to get onto the first platform just above the water where you more or less start. And I found it impossible to finish, because I couldn't find the explosive charges, I never even figured out what they look look. At least I 100%ed it for kill, that will have to satisfy me. This is so nearly great, though. Just needs more cueing.

Like Johnny Law above, I am ambivalent about Ternate Sufferance (jjj2_gw_x9). There is so much great stuff in here that feels unfair to major on criticisms. But I found it really hard to get started -- had to watch a video to figure out how to get onto the first platform just above the water where you more or less start. And I found it impossible to finish, because I couldn't find the explosive charges, I never even figured out what they look look. At least I 100%ed it for kill, that will have to satisfy me. This is so nearly great, though. Just needs more cueing.

I really enjoyed Part of the Machine (jjj2_omni), with its twisting Gigeresque machine and multiple hard-but-fair combats. I never found a use for the super-jump boots, though.

Tower Tussle (jjj2_greenwood) is a pleasantly uncomplicated blast, working your way up the inside of a wide, square tower. In enjoyed the gradual escalation of jumping ability, the way the rocket launcher turns up just when you really want it, and the balance of difficulty being such that I spent most of my time just low enough on health for it to feel dangerous. The only downsides are a slight visual monotony, and a sense of anti-climax after the trifecta-powered pre-penultimate battle, that the last two are rather less demanding. Good stuff. (I missed all four secrets.)

With the help of Arcane Fiend's hint, I went deeper into The Shadow and the Flame (jjj2_konig), but I'm giving up again now. It's too much of a maze, and too reliant on arbitrary action at a distance. Much of it (at least, the first half, where I am stuck) looks the same, so it's hard to keep your bearings. There are two closed gates, and an area where walking close to the edge of a pit gives a message "A gate in the distance opens" for some reason, but neither gate seems to open. After a bit more wandering around, I lost interest. Sorry, Konig!

Alka Chasm Q64 (jjj2_eduardo2) may be more ludicrously overprovisioned with health -- specifically megahealths -- than any map I've seen before. It's also oversupplied with weapons and with ammo. But it's fun, and that's the point of it all.

Finally, I think: regarding Adventure fun with animal friends also robots i love you (jjj2_quasiotter) ... I have enough of Quasiotter's distinctly non-Quakey Quake style. The joke doesn't amuse me any more.

I finished my experience of this pack by replaying the marvellous The Early Bird Gets The 17-Centimeter Fromitz Board (jjj2_juzley) -- which was nearly as much fun as last time, despite that last time being less than a month previously. I didn't want my final word on JJJ2 to be whining about poor Quasiotter. Excellent pack, which touches high highs but also features some infuriating lows. I can't not give it five stars.

My one last criticism is that I didn't enjoy the difficulty of traversing the start map to get to portals that, only when I got them, told me whether I'd already played them. It would have made life much easier if they changed colour when completed (as I believe happens in Alkaline itself).

Update to my previous posting 16 May 2022, 20:45.

I played jjj2_juzley again after half a year.

And, as I had suspected:

I found fromitz 50 in a different location.

Great. Even more fun ....

This shit put me to tears. It's so good.