QMap - The Level Design Forum
Q3 - Q1 Textures
#519 Posted by Kell [194.105.160.225], 05/01/2001 17:57 GMT
If the textures look huge, resize them to 50% in PSP or Photoshop first then load them into a new texture wad.
The resolution of Q3 textures is double that of Q1 because it can handle far more information.
I noticed a similar problem some time back when some of Rhorsach's textures were converted without scaling for Q1; the result was trim features twice the height of the player etc. A Q3 texture 128x128 does the same job as a 64x64 texture does in Q1.

Personally, I don't double the scaling of a texture except for details, e.g. something which the player will be looking at very close up, where the extra pixels will make a better looking object - switches are a good example; the H.E.V. chargers in HL had textures double the scale of the box they would be applied to. This is because the player spends an unusually long time pressed up against the charger, so it looks cooler to have extra detail.

Don't do this across a whole level. Otherwise you get, as Tron so elonquently phrased it, a slow horrible choking death...

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Good News, Bad News
#520 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.194], 06/01/2001 15:17 GMT
The good news is -- GTKRadiant works with my PC! WOOP!

The bad news is, I've built the usual one-room test map in trying to learn the editor, and I keep falling thru the floor. Ricebug over at gamedesign.net said to check the texture with Curry for nonsolid params, which I did -- and it does, but what I want to know is this: can I just delete the param with Curry, or will that screw something up (btw, the tex is killtrim_trans, which I really like)?

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Biff Biff Biff
#521 Posted by Lunaran [172.168.63.81], 06/01/2001 21:02 GMT , Refers to Post #520
If you delete the shader parm with curry it'll still be a nonsolid floor on every other person in the world's computer.

Open it up instead and see what texture it uses, and just use that texture. Else you're going to have to include a custom biff3dm1.shader with your map.

Moon

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Dammit, I Was Afraid Of That.
#522 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.167], 06/01/2001 21:47 GMT
But how do I select the texture and NOT the shader in Curry? I tried to highlight it, but it only put a box around the selection.

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Aaaah.
#523 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 06/01/2001 22:18 GMT , Refers to Post #522
In this case it's easy. You don't need to hack the shader or use Curry or anything like that.

Apply the texture to the surface/whole brush, make sure it's selected, then open the surface inspector (S). Delete the '_trans' bit from the end of the texture name. This seems to work although I haven't tried compiling the map, it ought to though.

In some cases you can't do this though because the shader name is exactly the same as the texture name Frown

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Kick ASS.
#524 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.161], 06/01/2001 23:35 GMT , Refers to Post #523
I hadn't even thought about the surface inspector (actually, I've only used it once so far). Thanks, man.

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Another Potentially Dumb Question
#525 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.161], 06/01/2001 23:37 GMT
How can I change the particulars of existing entities in the map? All I've been able to do is right-click and bring up the entity menu to create new ones.

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Easy
#526 Posted by GrindSpire [62.7.39.103], 07/01/2001 00:03 GMT , Refers to Post #525
You select the entity (easiest in the 3D window) by shift + left clicking on it. Then just press N to bring up the entity properties. Or if it is a light press K to set the colour of the light.

Flame~GrindSpire

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Alright!
#527 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.188], 07/01/2001 03:04 GMT , Refers to Post #526
Thanks, GS. I'm getting the hang of Radiant's basic commands (moving, stretching, clipping, copying and pasting brushes), and am beginning to understand why you've all been playing it up it so much...

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Back To Tex Fixing
#528 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.197], 07/01/2001 05:18 GMT
Is there any way to do the above suggestion by Shallow (remove the '_trans' part from the killblock texture) on more than one brush simultaneously? I tried it with the replace textures menu, but everything stayed the way it was.

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Why Oh Why Does VIS Suck My Nuts?
#529 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.115], 11/02/2001 02:49 GMT
Alright. I'm building a city/town map. It's gonna be cool. Right now I have a large dock area, and a street behind it, separated by rather high walls and houses (768 high, at least). The only way to get from the dock area to the street is a 256 wide hole in the wall at one end of the street.

So I load the map up in software quake to test visibility, and as far as I can tell, I can see the whole dock from the street, and vis versa.

As far as I can tell, VIS makes some kind of distinction between seeing around corners and seeing over walls.

Possible solutions: yes I could have the roofs of the buildings join with the sky brush (in fact they're only 64 apart I think), but I wanted to know if this was soluble with doing so, because then I couldn't really have varying roof heights. Other possibilty: the street didn't have any detail on it, so the road and the walls on the other side were probbly only one portal (or was it leaf? whatever) that stretched the whole length of the area.

I'm just annoyed because I know the Unreal engine would have no damn problems whatsoever (and DON'T say make the map for Unreal, because I don't have time to learn UnrealEd right now, I'm committed to q1, and I have a dinky Mac, and hell will freeze over before UnrealED gets a Mac port, so there.)

</rant>

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Help Meee
#530 Posted by ES [63.20.146.179], 11/02/2001 17:19 GMT
Im a newbie at building q3a maps but i want to get good, any helpful tips?

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Yep =)
#531 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.3.145], 11/02/2001 17:25 GMT , Refers to Post #530
(1) Practise, practise, practise. That is the main way to learn, just keep building small maps and learning new techniques.

(2) Start small. Make small maps to start with, rather than starting some huge ambitious project, that way you can complete something and get feedback on it, one of the most important things.

(3) Don't release the first thing you finish. Your 3rd finished map will probably be the earliest thing you want to release, and even then, you'll look back at it and cringe when you get better.

(4) Ask questions. Don't be afraid to email mappers whose work you admire to ask them questions or to have a look at your work pre-release.

(5) Beta test. Once you think your map is at releasable standard, send it to some people whose work you respect (not your friends) and ask them what they think you should change.

Hope that helps

Flame~GrindSpire

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Thanks :]
#532 Posted by ES [63.20.146.224], 11/02/2001 22:22 GMT
ill try that, and ill me sure to send in my first halfway decent map here for everyone to look at :] ALSO, what would be a good editor to use? I have Tread3d and Quake Army Knife, and i prefer qak over tread, but if theres anything else that might be better, please tell me.

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Well
#533 Posted by GrindSpire [62.7.68.57], 11/02/2001 22:37 GMT , Refers to Post #532
Since it is for Q3, your choices are Q3R, Quark or Tread. Personally I use Q3R, but try them all out and see which one you prefer.

Flame~GrindSpire

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It Works, Im A Genius! Doh
#534 Posted by ES [63.20.67.16], 12/02/2001 09:11 GMT
im gonna slap myself later on, how do you add a bot the map? Theres a spawn player in quark, but i dont see a spawn bot. I know im missing something, what is it :]

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Intermission Story
#535 Posted by Kell [194.105.160.225], 12/02/2001 10:26 GMT
How do I get text to appear across an intermission screen; you know the sort of thing, "As the corpse of the monstrous Cthon sinks back into the lava whence it rose..etc" ?

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Hehe
#536 Posted by GrindSpire [193.193.32.13], 12/02/2001 11:18 GMT , Refers to Post #534
Basically, use info_deathmatchstart at all the points you want players/bots to spawn. Then, compile the map as normal. Once this is done there is a program in your tools directory called bspc.exe run this and it will give you a list of parameters, the one you want is -bsp2ass. That should make a file called mapname.aas in your baseq3/maps folder, now you can add bots via the in game menu.

Flame~GrindSpire

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W00t
#537 Posted by ES [63.20.146.198], 12/02/2001 18:18 GMT
well, i completed a fairly nice (for my experience level) arena type level. if any of you want it, just drop me a line, my ICQ# is 70337796.

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#538 Posted by Grahf [209.145.70.90], 12/02/2001 21:36 GMT
kell, I think it might have something to do with the episodegate/bossgate entities. I'm really not sure though.

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End-of-Episode Text
#539 Posted by Nightbringer [203.109.252.25], 13/02/2001 01:58 GMT , Refers to Post #535
It's a property of the intermission entity, sort of; it's done in the qc code - ExitIntermission in client.qc.

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Gfxr
#540 Posted by infiniface [195.228.218.104], 13/02/2001 02:26 GMT
Hi!

Can everybody say what tha heck is goin' on with my map? I've created a ctf map, it has 4*2 ctf_***spawn points, 4*2 ctf_***player points, the two flags, 3 teleports, 1 intermission, 2 deatmatch spawning points, some trigger_push, and so on, but when I compile it (everything works) i cannot load it with 1.17, but it works with 1.27g!!!

I've created the map with gtkrad 1.1 TA, compiled with gtkbuild...

Puhhleeeazzzeee!!!

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At A Guess
#541 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.212.212], 13/02/2001 07:43 GMT , Refers to Post #540
It is probably because of the new tools. Your map has been compiled with the Q3TA tools, so it only works with 1.27 since that is the patch that takes Q3 up to a level with Q3TA.

This may be entirely wrong though =)

Flame~GrindSpire

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It's QuakeC
#542 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.202], 13/02/2001 08:32 GMT , Refers to Post #535
Basically, there's a routine that's called during an intermission that displays all that text goodness - ExitIntermission() in CLIENT.QC.

The bit we're interested in is...

//
// run some text if at the end of an episode
//
if (intermission_running == 2)
{


Now, after the official episode stuff, slam in this lot:

else if (world.model == "maps/mapname.bsp")
{
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_CDTRACK);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 2); // CD track to play
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, 3); // Dunno
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, SVC_FINALE);
WriteByte (MSG_ALL, "Some freaky shit happened etc.");
return;
}


Decent Quake tracks for in-game episodes are #3 and #10 for a more evil feel.

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I Don't Think So
#543 Posted by infiniface [195.228.218.104], 13/02/2001 08:42 GMT , Refers to Post #541
GS:

If this would be the case, the server (in my opinion) have to kick me back with some error messages, which I can dump out with condump, or plainly just check with console. But it freeeeeezzzzes to the hell during "loading map xxx". :) Geez. (I've also tried with my other maps, but they are working...)

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BSP2MAP
#544 Posted by LDB [217.80.127.254], 13/02/2001 18:32 GMT
I have read that i can make BSP files to a editable map file! And it works but i did not see the textures!
please help me!

ps: i extract the textures from the pk3 file but it still not works!

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BSP2MAP
#545 Posted by Johnny [151.202.208.84], 13/02/2001 18:54 GMT , Refers to Post #544
That's the hitch about decompiling maps. All texture information is lost, also all curves are translated into brushes.

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Episode Ending Text
#546 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.89], 14/02/2001 02:44 GMT
Totally offtopic from mapping help, but...

When I played CZG's Insomnia pak, I had The Fragile (left mind you) in my drive for tasty nihilistic background music. CZG had graciously set the episode end music to track 2, which happens to be The Day The World Went Away on The Fragile. And WOW, that and the totally bleak ending text clicked so incredibly well... He must have planned that.

Moral of the story? Plan your Quake music wisely, it makes a difference!

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Cd Tracks
#547 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 14/02/2001 04:59 GMT
Plan your Quake music wisely, it makes a difference!

Unfortunately, I don't think many people who play my maps leave Britney Spears in the cd drive while playing

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Lol
#548 Posted by ES [63.20.67.166], 14/02/2001 06:57 GMT
frag me baby one more time :]

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ARGH!!!
#549 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 14/02/2001 08:51 GMT
I tried to compile a map I'm working on before and got this error message:

outputfile: c:\quake\id1\maps\TRNSLIDE.bsp
--- LoadMapFile ---
c:\quake\id1\maps\TRNSLIDE.map
159 brushes
40 entities
16 miptex
148 texinfo
building hulls sequentially...
--- Brush_LoadEntity ---
158 brushes read
---- CSGFaces ----
1290 brushfaces
6698 csgfaces
1309 mergedfaces
--- SolidBSP ---
************ ERROR ************
Ran out of memory allocating 548 bytes


Argh!!!!! I'm really stuck and don't want to have to scrap what I have...

Tron

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CD Tracks
#550 Posted by Kell [194.105.160.225], 14/02/2001 10:18 GMT
Plan your Quake music wisely, it makes a difference!

And how many Quake players have a copy of 'Zoon' ?

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Well
#551 Posted by ES [63.20.67.41], 14/02/2001 20:08 GMT
i dont know a bsp from a pk3, but isnt that kinda sayin you ran outta memory, restart your computer and try it again, you resource monger.

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I'm A Total Q3r N3wb
#552 Posted by Grahf [216.12.20.97], 14/02/2001 20:11 GMT
Is there a keyboard shortcut for "Select Partial Tall?" I'm giving myself carpal tunnel syndrome using the silly contextual menu every time.

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Tron...
#553 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.76.35], 14/02/2001 22:37 GMT , Refers to Post #549
you might have to close one or more other programs running on your system to free up RAM, or try adding a winmem xx command to qbsp (i have no idea if this works, its just a random suggestion)

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Um...
#554 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.16.83], 14/02/2001 23:09 GMT , Refers to Post #552
Well there is a button for it =)

Flame~GrindSpire

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Memory Errors
#555 Posted by Jimbo [164.106.40.175], 15/02/2001 16:00 GMT , Refers to Post #549
Hmmm, I used to have that sort of problem,
First: check your free memory, both disk and ram, if it's less than 128 megs combined try and free up some more.
Second:try a different compiler, if necessary reboot to dos mode and try the dos qbsp.
I hope that helps.
-Jimbo

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"wqbsp.exe"
#556 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.75.59], 15/02/2001 20:11 GMT
If you have trouble with normal qbsp, I recommend tracking this program down. It can handle larger files and has support for transparent water. Try fileplanet.

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Q3 Grenade Shooter Model
#557 Posted by Killer [195.8.84.83], 19/02/2001 16:47 GMT
Does anyone know what the name of the Quake III Grenade Shooter model is? You know the one in Q3DM11 - Deva Station near the Quad / Haste. I have checked the PK3 files and can't find the bastard MD3 file, only the textures. If anyone know please post it here or email me.

Cheers,
-Killer

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It Is Quite Likely That...
#558 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 19/02/2001 22:18 GMT , Refers to Post #557
... the grenade shooter model was one of the ones that id decided not to release. Since the polys of a mapobject are written into the bsp at compile time there is no need to release the md3 to a mapobject if you don't want to, only the textures. id put a selection of mapobjects in the media that was released with radiant, but by no means all of them.

Of course it may actually be hidden somewhere, in the released media, I haven't actually checked. If not you'll need to make your own - either brushes or using milkshape or summat.

(BTW don't bother trying to ask id to release it, they've said no to the last 6 trillion requests to release specific map objects :)

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Cheers Shallow
#559 Posted by Killer [213.1.196.82], 20/02/2001 00:08 GMT , Refers to Post #558
Thanks for the info Shallow, I didn't realise that was the situation, I thought if it was in the maps then it had to be in the PK3 files somewhere. Alas I will have to make a shitty replacement out of brushes instead :-(

-Killer

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HELP ME PLEASE!!!
#560 Posted by ParboiL [195.131.1.170], 20/02/2001 09:32 GMT
Dear guys! Help me please!
To me is very necessary initial file (*.map) from a card Claustrofobopolis (dm2 Quake1).
Where it it is possible download???
Beforehand is very grateful.

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Experiences
#561 Posted by infiniface [195.56.84.209], 20/02/2001 18:03 GMT
So, I wrote lately that I cannot run my compiled map, while it doesn't shown any errors until compiling process. As the general mapping faq at qeradiant.com, the bug was with the shaders. I still dunno where or why or which shader did the crash, but q3a crashed with no message. Weird, eh? I think there was something at the tcGen lightmap stages...

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Radient For Q1?
#562 Posted by Vrajgh [212.159.1.3], 20/02/2001 21:31 GMT
Is there a version of radient or something similar for Q1? I currently use BSP and love it but I've heard so much about how good radient is and would like to give it a try if there is such a thing for Q1.

Thanks

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Kind Of...
#563 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.166.97], 21/02/2001 08:32 GMT , Refers to Post #562
You have to use QERadiant and SleepwalkR's converter, QER can be found here: http://www.qeradiant.com/ and the converter can be found here: http://www.planetquake.com/rem/. There are instructions to get it all working in the converter's text file.

Flame~GrindSpire

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Leaf Saw Into Leaf
#564 Posted by Vondur [194.87.189.190], 21/02/2001 10:58 GMT
Just felt an urge to type something on qmap.
Well, i just remembered the prob I had when building my current q1sp map.
There was an error like:

*********** ERROR **********
Leaf portals saw into leaf

I was unable to fix it for a long time, vis just crashed... I tried averything, and in the end I 'fixed' it by moving entire map on grid. But error returned after some additions to the map. And I fixed it again with the same method. I'm afraid that it might return again. I just want to find the core of evil there... Yes, I've read info on Quakelab [ http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLab/vis.htm ], but there is no exact solution for the problem. And yes, I rebuilt the area after which the problem started to appear...no success...

So, does anyone know how to kill this nasty thing? Are there any true killing methods?

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Oh, *that* Error...
#565 Posted by Grahf [216.12.20.97], 21/02/2001 18:09 GMT
I think the "leaf portals saw into leaf" error has something to do with bad/concave brushes, or really complex architecture. Yeah, that's not any specific advice, but Quakelab's suggestion to do a higher VIS makes sense. This is just one of those errors that nobody has ever really figured out.

q1sp? Can't wait to see it, Von.

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Vondur:
#566 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.76.155], 21/02/2001 21:30 GMT , Refers to Post #564
Ask DaZ, he had the problem before with dazsp3...

Cant wait for the map to be released. If its anything like Solarfall then that cant be a bad thing...

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:)
#567 Posted by Vondur [194.87.189.190], 22/02/2001 07:19 GMT
i hope it will be better than solarfall ;)

ya....evil error though

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Hmm...
#568 Posted by DaZ [213.123.22.178], 23/02/2001 19:44 GMT
When I had the "leaf portals saw into leaf" error I just moved the map around on the grid like Von, and it never came back...

Strange that it has with you Von, Hmm... Well just keep moving the map around until its done eh? Smile

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Curve Lighting
#569 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.49], 25/02/2001 15:21 GMT
Hey guys -- any tips on getting those odd surfaces in q1 brush curves lit properly? I've got an arch, and everything but the very ceiling (top) lights perfectly -- which in itself amazed me, but it's still off, and adding light just makes the surrounding area brighter. It's nothing major -- just annoying.

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HELP!
#570 Posted by Oxygen [24.163.237.239], 25/02/2001 16:23 GMT
I know this sounds stpuid but I've been working on a map for about 3 months (Q3 radiant)now and I don't know how to test the level.. I mean I compile it then what ?

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Biff, Curves
#571 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 25/02/2001 16:40 GMT
Basically you're screwed. That's an extremely annoying bug that just occurs at random times when you use curves in Q1 (see one of the secrets in APSP1 for an example :)). Either use more/less vertices or use a bunch of tiny little lights.

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Or....
#572 Posted by CZG [195.204.47.81], 25/02/2001 17:21 GMT , Refers to Post #569
Get the source for Tyrlite, (it's available isn't it?) code in support for arghrads phong shading, and voilà! Instant smoothly lit curves.

That is, if you are a 1337 programmer. If not, then there's not much you can do. Except for what the plant said.

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Lots Of Little Lights...
#573 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 25/02/2001 21:54 GMT , Refers to Post #569
I've tried doing a fair bit of lighting curves recently and the best way seems to be to use a shitload of little lights to light each face of the curve individually...it;s a bitch to do and takes a lot longer to compile but you can get some good results...

Tron

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City Of Tiny Lights
#574 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.53], 25/02/2001 23:54 GMT
I'm no Code Boy, so that seems the way to go. Whelp, no VIS for me for a while. Thanks guys.

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Argh.
#575 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.33], 26/02/2001 03:52 GMT
This is driving me nuts. I've even tried spots and simplifying the architecture, but this lighting thing's MAKING ME INSANE. I'm a manic mapper, a loony level-builder. Wish Q1 had the lit surfaces q2 had -- waitaminute -- where's that other thread...

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Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#576 Posted by Speedy [213.221.48.23], 26/02/2001 06:35 GMT
for inside the arch I just place 1 light with 1 delay in the centre; for outside - small lights with delay 2 or 1 at the edges, to make two faces lit equally on their junction

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Well
#577 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.173], 26/02/2001 17:12 GMT
The delayed lights didn't help much, either. If you guys want to see what I'm talking about, I've got a screenie of it here. As you can see, the top area is considerably darker than the sides. I'd like them to match more, but any lighting continues to seperate the difference, no matter what I try.

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Really Biff...
#578 Posted by CZG [195.204.54.107], 26/02/2001 17:20 GMT , Refers to Post #577
I think that lighting looks very realistic actually. The lightsource is the grates in the ceiling as far as I can see, and thus it would be natural if the part of the arch facing down would be darker as it is at the exact same height.
If you'd released that map right now I never would have dreamed you had any trouble there or that that is not how it's supposed to look.
Maybe you're being a bit too perfectionist? Smile

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Aah -- Mebbe
#579 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.173], 26/02/2001 18:35 GMT , Refers to Post #578
It just sucks when you're so used to being able to control the factors in a map, and you come across something that seems out of your control -- not unlike some niggling QBSP message or something. But you may have given me an idea, CZG -- one way to even the lighting is to pull those recessed lights out. Why I didn't think of that before, I have no idea. But if I don't like that, I may go back to the way it looks now.

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That Was It.
#580 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.171], 26/02/2001 18:49 GMT
If it'd been a dog, it'd humped my leg. And I'm sticking with it since it makes those arches more rounded, and arch-like. Have a look here.

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Ahh Hell
#581 Posted by Grahf [216.12.20.97], 26/02/2001 19:32 GMT
Last nigh, I ran up against the weirdest screw-up I've seen in Quake for quite a while. Essentially, my sky texture is totally b0rked.

I was making a Nehahra map, and I wanted to use some skyboxes. So, last night I built a big canyon area, and a one story building contained in the canyon. Compiling gave no errors (although one qbsp I used to try and fix the problem gave me two "brush with duplicate plane" errors), but when I loaded up the map I saw no skybox, but instead a brown and multicolored crap kind of sky. I had put a Hexen II sky in first, and then one from DKT. Neither changed the look of this fux0r3d sky, which resembled no texture in the map. In addition, the vising inside the building was screwed up; I could see straight through the ceiling, as if I had r_drawflat 1 on. But this was Nehahra, not software. The really weird thing was that inside the building, where I could see through the ceiling, the skybox was perfectly visible!

I thought this was a Nehahra problem, but I tried the map in software to no avail. Tried two qbsp progs, 2 VIS progs, always tyrlite, and the problem didn't go away. (the compile utils i used were the qbsp and vis integrated with Quiver and the MacOS ports of the Quest utils, just so ya know). Always a level 4 vis.

I'm really confused. Only possible problem is that the building had a lot of fine detail (aligned on the 4-8 unit grid).

Help!

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Bifff! :)
#582 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 26/02/2001 21:23 GMT
Plat floor textures on the ceiling? Ugh, everyone is so l33t compared to me. :( Can't wait to play this thing :)

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Oxygen
#583 Posted by pjw [198.211.32.230], 27/02/2001 04:47 GMT , Refers to Post #570
After you've compiled your map, pull down the Q3 console (with the "~" key), and type "/sv_pure 0" (without the quotes), and hit enter. This allows Q3 to run a bare .bsp without you having to put it in a .pk3. Then type "/map mymapname" (without the quotes) and hit enter. Your map should load.

Maybe . . . just possibly . . . you might consider checking your map in-game more then once every three months? Smile

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Those Damn Curves...
#584 Posted by Grahf [216.12.20.97], 27/02/2001 14:10 GMT
I've got the basic 12 sided cylinder down, but making twists in the cylinder is driving me mad. Any ratios/prefabs to point me to?

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Worldcraft 3.3 & Q1
#585 Posted by Mook [208.198.103.19], 27/02/2001 16:04 GMT
Has there been a util made -yet- that will convert a WC 3.3 .map file to a Q1-compatible .map file and RETAIN the texture rotation/alignment?

I'd sooooo love to use WC 3.3 for Q1 mapping and texturing...but the only ways I can find to use it for this just toss out WC's wacky new texture keys :/

There's some util for Tribes mapping called MapConverter that seemed promising, but it too just throws out said keys...ugh


I know it -has- to be possible, and I'd make my own util, but I have no idea how you'd convert the keys...

[Reply]


How To Set WAYPOINTS In Quake1CTF Maps ?
#586 Posted by [Cap Quake] [200.190.226.41], 27/02/2001 22:13 GMT
I got many CTF maps, but when i go play with bots, they not atack, because the maps dont'have WAYPOINTS.
What i need to set this waypoints ??

[Reply]


Grahf Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#587 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.88], 27/02/2001 22:30 GMT
cap quake, which ctf mod? There aren't many people who do ctf mapping around here, my only guess is that the waypoints are probably entities you need to create.

[Reply]


Tex Help...
#588 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 28/02/2001 01:50 GMT
Is it possible for a texture wizard to convert:

archprt1
archprt10
archprt9
clmsupbot
clmsuptop

from the Q3Atest.wad (already converted for Q1 at Frib's site) so that they sit with E3. I'm thinking a grey metal conversion might work and I'd be much obliged if someone would take on the task.

I need the modified texz for an upcoming project.

[Reply]


Ctfbot
#589 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.224.198], 28/02/2001 06:56 GMT , Refers to Post #586
Try a specialist ctf bot like the one here

http://www.captured.com/ctfbot/

[Reply]


Update On #581
#590 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.60], 01/03/2001 01:33 GMT
It's not vis. The sky looks wack whether not the map is vis'ed. Also, I took out the complex architecture, that didn't help either. And actually software quake died with a wierd error, which may be related, but I doubt it, as the nehahra entities were likely spit back out by swquake.

here's some pics. Anybody have a clue?

Borked Sky 1

Borked Sky 2

Borked Sky 3

Borked Sky 4

[Reply]


Bluh! Bluh!
#591 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.66], 01/03/2001 21:03 GMT
In q1, doesn't the trigger_counter use its targetname for those things it counts (say if it counted to two, and had the name of "count", then both the entities it counted would need the same name of "count")?

[Reply]


Counters
#592 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 01/03/2001 21:13 GMT
looks like you have a trigger named "count" with a count of two. That means that two things with the TARGET (not name, but target) of "count" must be triggered/killed before the trigger_counter is triggered. cool? :)

[Reply]


Recounters!
#593 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.195.181], 01/03/2001 22:06 GMT , Refers to Post #592
What if the two things are already targeting something else (like a teleporter, mebbe)?

[Reply]


Meanwhile...
#594 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.54], 01/03/2001 23:28 GMT
Okay, I've got the trigger_counter with the targetname of "count", a count of 2 and the target of a pair of doors ("dr"). I've also got a trigger_relay with the target of "count" and the name of "t1", which is also the anme of a teleport_destination, which is passed twice by two different teles. So, with the theory being when "t1" is passed twice, via the trigger_relay the trigger_counter will be activated to open the doors, right?

Wrong -- the thing counts, and with the proper messages (with "one more to go", and "sequence completed"), but the doors don't open. I even when back and tried the "toggle" flag on the doors, but still no go.

[Reply]


Hmm
#595 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 01/03/2001 23:51 GMT
Why bother using the trigger_relay?

[Reply]


Uhh
#596 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.39], 02/03/2001 01:28 GMT , Refers to Post #595
Didn't you say the trigger_counter needed to have its name in the target field of whatever what to be counted? I said the two things I wanted to be counted already had those fields filled, thus the trigger_relay to provide the extra slot.


Are you trying to say that the tele_destination could have a "targetname" key added, and used instead?

[Reply]


I Believe...
#597 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 02/03/2001 02:35 GMT , Refers to Post #596
what Fern is saying is that the trigger_relay in this setup is redundant.

Start at the back:

The teleport_destination (with targetname "tele1" or some such) targets the trigger_counter with targetname "count", when count is triggered (targetted) twice it targets the func_door with targetname "dr1".

And the entity list looks like this:
teleport_destination, targetname-tele1, target-count.
trigger_counter, targetname-count, target-dr1.
func_door, targetname-dr1.

Hope it works

[Reply]


Oop
#598 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.51], 02/03/2001 03:24 GMT
I didn't realize until I read your post Pal, I meant to put "target" instead of "targetname" (as far as the tele_dest was concerned) in my last post -- but that was what I had meant. No, really!

Anyway, I tried it (targetting the trig_count with the tele_dest -- twice), but it didn't work the counter at all.

[Reply]


Hmmmmm?
#599 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 02/03/2001 04:18 GMT , Refers to Post #598
Yet in the previous setup, with the tele_dest named t1 the counter worked via targetting by the relay?

So let me get this straight, the entity list is as follows:
teleport_destination, targetname-t1.
trigger_relay, targetname-t1, target-count.
trigger_counter, targetname-count, target-dr.
func_door, targetname-dr.

If the counter is working, this should work. Therfore I don't know what's going on, sorry.

[Reply]


Hmm
#600 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 02/03/2001 04:27 GMT
So let me get this straight, the entity list is as follows:
teleport_destination, targetname-t1.
trigger_relay, targetname-t1, target-count.
trigger_counter, targetname-count, target-dr.
func_door, targetname-dr.


Even if it doesn't work, you'd be better off not fooling with unnecessary entities :)

teleport_destination, targetname-t1.
trigger_counter, targetname-t1, target-dr.
func_door, targetname-dr.

I would also try removing the target name for the doors entirely and make sure they open correctly when you walked up to them.

[Reply]


Bluh!
#601 Posted by Lunaran [152.163.197.63], 02/03/2001 04:54 GMT
Okay, so say I have a trigger_multiple targetting a door that opens up a teleporter that has to be turned on when the trigger is touched, but I can't use a trigger_relay because the trigger_multiple has to be triggered on by another trigger that's triggered by a trigger_relay set off when someone goes through the first teleporter, but the first teleporter is turned off and another one right there turned on to make it look like the destination is changing, but I can't get the targetnames on the teleport_destinations to work because they both all have to be triggered on by a func_button that opens the first door and enables andother door to be triggered open once the player goes through the second teleport, but only if they go in sideways holding a ukelele and a can of baked beans...

Moon

[Reply]


Quite So...
#602 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 02/03/2001 04:55 GMT , Refers to Post #600
I (doh!) missed that entity rationalization, and yeah maybe the doors just don't work. Would it be an idea to send 'em back the world then re-tie them to the func_door entity.

[Reply]


Lun
#603 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 02/03/2001 04:58 GMT , Refers to Post #601
I just realised how appropriate your nick is.

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Second Verse...
#604 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.197], 02/03/2001 10:17 GMT , Refers to Post #600
Same as the first: No go.

And the doors do work by themselves. Just not when given a targetname!

[Reply]


That's The Funniest Thing
#605 Posted by pjw [198.211.36.117], 02/03/2001 10:47 GMT , Refers to Post #601
I've read all day. Maybe it's just because I've had my head stuck in 3DS Max for about sixteen hours and I despise the buggy POS and I am thus slightly brain damaged, but man, that's funny stuff.

I love this site.

I love Lun.

Hell, I love everyone.

I'm going to sleep.

(I'm not even drunk.)

[Reply]


Second Verse
#606 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 02/03/2001 17:04 GMT
hmm... I'd be glad to look at the .map. hehe :)

[Reply]


Hehe Yeh
#607 Posted by Apollo [213.1.133.107], 03/03/2001 08:58 GMT
More red arrows than a fucking plane convention.<happy>
666 Apollo 666

[Reply]


Fucking Planes?
#608 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.22], 03/03/2001 12:00 GMT
Now I'd like to see that.

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What Was That Show Called...
#609 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 03/03/2001 12:09 GMT
Anyone remember that cartoon Fergie invented..umm budgie the helicopter was it? Anyway, there were guy and girl helicopters in that so there must be a way for planes to have sex!

Tron

[Reply]


Hehe
#610 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.151], 03/03/2001 13:24 GMT
Or those old Tex Avery cartoons with the mama and daddy planes, and the little baby plane who wanted to be a jet?

[Reply]


R_Speeds
#611 Posted by Vrajgh [212.159.1.3], 03/03/2001 18:17 GMT
I'm mapping for Q1 (or trying anyway!) can someone post a link to a tutorial or something with tips as to how to keep these low. I have a map which has high r_speeds ingrained in the design (which is rather unfortunate) and as that is the case I think I ought to do everything in my power to keep them low.

Thanks a lot.

[Reply]


My Nick
#612 Posted by Lunaran [64.12.102.172], 03/03/2001 19:55 GMT
I just realised how appropriate your nick is.

You did? Cool.

er ... could you explain it to me then? unless it's the usual moon thing I'm not sure I understand what you mean. :)

Moon

[Reply]


Re: Vrajgh
#613 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 03/03/2001 20:42 GMT
http://members.tripod.com/~Fribbles/tutorial/qlevels.html <-- this wasn't as helpful as I remembered, but it still has some important information...

My advice on keeping r_speeds low is to make sure there's nowhere in the map where you can see lots of stuff, but I'm sure whoever else will respond to this is going to plug that detail and hint shit :)

[Reply]


...
#614 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.21.230], 03/03/2001 20:46 GMT , Refers to Post #612
I would I assume he meant as in lunatics

[Reply]


Evil Testicles Of Doom!
#615 Posted by GrindSpire [213.123.17.61], 03/03/2001 23:40 GMT
What does the error message

Bad Surface Extents 32/826

mean in a HL map?

[Reply]


.
#616 Posted by Scampie [205.243.60.13], 03/03/2001 23:48 GMT , Refers to Post #615
that it sucks and you shouldn't waste your time with crap games like HL.

Smile

[Reply]


R_speeds
#617 Posted by Jaj [62.83.19.88], 04/03/2001 02:05 GMT , Refers to Post #611
This is another tutorial with tricks for reduce the r_speeds, is for Quake2 but what is explained there can be applied to Quake1 too :
It's
Here

[Reply]


Middle Eight
#618 Posted by palldjon@Icafe [144.132.66.135], 04/03/2001 03:26 GMT
Biff - just launched a .zip your way with a possible solution.

Lun - I was thinking of the unusual moon thing.

/me puts "The Hampsterdance" on again and continues mapping.

[Reply]


Biff's Problem
#619 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.61], 04/03/2001 03:45 GMT
has been fixed as far as I know, and the .map file was very tasty :)

[Reply]


Thain Kew.
#620 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.176], 04/03/2001 04:05 GMT , Refers to Post #619
I actually got a little more work done today, and might finally get some pics in the screenie thread soon =)

[Reply]


R_speeds
#621 Posted by Vondur [194.87.189.205], 04/03/2001 09:14 GMT , Refers to Post #611
about r_speeds

http://www.planetquake.com/worldcraft/tutorial/speed.html

the tutorial site itself [i very recommend to read it]

http://www.planetquake.com/worldcraft/index2.shtm

[Reply]


Ah Well...
#622 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 05/03/2001 00:43 GMT , Refers to Post #619
hope you enjoyed the .bsp anyway Biff.

[Reply]


Palldjon
#623 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.31], 05/03/2001 01:34 GMT , Refers to Post #622
I didn't get a .bsp, man. I dunno what happened, but I haven't received anything from you.

[Reply]


Biff....
#624 Posted by metlslime [140.142.171.194], 05/03/2001 03:47 GMT , Refers to Post #580

Here's a nitpick -- the rivet texture on that curve gets stretched on the slanted surfaces. Try scaling it 0.71 on the 45 degree surface, and closer to 1.00 as you get closer to vertical/horizontal.

[Reply]


That Is A Nitpick
#625 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.158], 05/03/2001 04:31 GMT , Refers to Post #624
But yeah, I know what you mean -- I'll get around to it eventually.

[Reply]


R_speeds
#626 Posted by Vrajgh [212.159.1.3], 05/03/2001 09:26 GMT , Refers to Post #621
Thanks for the help.

[Reply]


0.72 Dammit!
#627 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.140], 05/03/2001 16:39 GMT
I always use 0.72 for 45 degree things. Dunno why - I just calculated it again and it should be 0.71 - so why do I always use 0.72? Odd.

[Reply]


And You Were SO Off.
#628 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.189], 05/03/2001 17:06 GMT , Refers to Post #627
=P

[Reply]


I've Always Used
#629 Posted by Toady [195.163.226.190], 05/03/2001 19:23 GMT
0.75 scale on 45 degree surfaces since it's 3/4ths of the original size, making it easier to align the texture accurately.

[Reply]


How To Release A Map??
#630 Posted by Dr.Shoe [134.147.64.12], 06/03/2001 10:33 GMT , Refers to Post #613
Hi everybody out there!!!

I,ve finished two Q1-Dm-maps and want to release them.
But there is a problem: Everybody says: Upload them to ftp://ftp.cdrom.com and give me the adress!!
It seems that ftp://ftp.cdrom.com doesn`t store q1-levels anymore.

So is there a server out there, where I can store my little maps!!

Please help me!!

Your Dr.Shoe!!"

[Reply]


Dr. Shoe
#631 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.176], 06/03/2001 13:58 GMT , Refers to Post #630
Does your ISP (internet service provider, like AOL, Earthlink, whatever) provide you with any FTP space? If they do, you can upload your stuff to it, and provide a link to this site (via the board and Map Tracker), using the code featured at the bottom of this page (underneath the icons).

If not, I would suggest you change to a service that does, or find some way to obtain space for your maps (mebbe another mapper here might help you out -- I would, but AOL gives me very little space for my own stuff).

[Reply]


Cdrom.com Stuff
#632 Posted by Fingers [206.63.254.99], 06/03/2001 22:54 GMT
If you get really desperate, you can always upload stuff at fileplanet... :>

[Reply]


Texture Scaling On Slanted Surfaces
#633 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.150], 07/03/2001 06:41 GMT
texturing the slanted side of a triangle with these dimentions yields this scale factor for the slant:

1:1 -- 0.71
1:2 -- 0.87
1:3 -- 0.94
1:4 -- 0.97

these are basically the only angles i use regularly, so that's all i have. but the formula is pretty simple:

S = ((sqr(A^2 * B^2))/B)^-1

where S is the scaling factor, A is the shorter side of the triangle, and B is the longer side. (sqr means square root)

however toady has a good point -- 0.75 would make it easier to actually *align* the damn things.

[Reply]


Doh
#634 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.150], 07/03/2001 06:53 GMT
mistyped that -- 0.87 should be 0.89.

[Reply]


In Fact...
#635 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.150], 07/03/2001 07:02 GMT
just did some calculations:

2.00 1.75 1.50 1.25 1.00 0.75 0.50 0.25
--------------------------------------------------------
1:1 1.41 1.23 1.06 0.88 0.71 0.53 0.35 0.18
1:2 1.79 1.57 1.34 1.12 0.89 0.67 0.45 0.22
1:3 1.90 1.66 1.42 1.19 0.95 0.71 0.47 0.24
1:4 1.94 1.70 1.46 1.21 0.97 0.73 0.49 0.24

[Reply]


:(
#636 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.150], 07/03/2001 07:05 GMT
damn you qmap!!!!!!!!! DAAAAAAMN YOOOOOOUUUUUU!

0:1___2.00__1.75__1.50__1.25____1.00____0.75__0.50__0.25

1:1___1.41__1.23__1.06__0.88____0.71____0.53__0.35__0.18
1:2___1.79__1.57__1.34__1.12____0.89____0.67__0.45__0.22
1:3___1.90__1.66__1.42__1.19____0.95____0.71__0.47__0.24
1:4___1.94__1.70__1.46__1.21____0.97____0.73__0.49__0.24

[Reply]


WTF?
#637 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.33], 07/03/2001 10:11 GMT
Why don't we just agree eith 0.75, met? You're getting a bit keyed up over this.

[Reply]


Thanx!!!
#638 Posted by Dr.Shoe [134.147.64.12], 07/03/2001 10:33 GMT , Refers to Post #632
HiHo!!


My maps (bsdm1 and bsdm2) will be reviewed at
MULTIPLAYERQUAKE!!!

Thank you!!

So long;
Dr.Shoe

[Reply]


Ok...
#639 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.88.67], 07/03/2001 15:57 GMT
doing a map with some curves, i'm interested in these ratios, exactly what do the 1:2, 1:3, etc mean? could someone maybe show a pic or something?

/me confused

[Reply]


Curves
#640 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 07/03/2001 16:33 GMT , Refers to Post #639
Have a look at this.
The ratios refer to the grid pattern the non-axial sides form.
eg. 2:1 is across 2, up 1
1:2 is across 1, up 2 etc.
This 12-sided circle is particularly good for keeping things on the grid at different scales. You can also turn that one slightly to give you 1:4, 3:3, 4:1 which has a pointy bit at the top rather than a flat bit.

[Reply]


Addendum
#641 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 07/03/2001 16:39 GMT , Refers to Post #640
From trial & error, the texture rotation ratios on those curves are 27 & 63. Is their a formula that would give you that? Metlslime? Smile

[Reply]


NO!
#642 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.52], 07/03/2001 20:40 GMT
they are 26 and 64, at least as far as I have calculated figured 'em out...
tan-¹(X/Y) or whatever...

[Reply]


Ermm...
#643 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.88.67], 07/03/2001 21:07 GMT
i still dont' follow this too much. seems to be too much math being thrown around to decypher a clear way to get the rotation of a texture on a given angle. is there a clear formula some is leaving out?

[Reply]


Tan-schpan
#644 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.224.77], 07/03/2001 21:22 GMT
27 & 63 definitely looks right Smile

[Reply]


Well...
#645 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.52], 07/03/2001 21:25 GMT
so does 26 and 64.
The exact values are
26.5650511771
and
63.4349488229
or something in that manner...

[Reply]


.
#646 Posted by metlslime [140.142.169.190], 07/03/2001 23:27 GMT

Why don't we just agree with 0.75, met?

Why do we need to agree? use whatever value you want. I just posted a table of values to save everyone else some math. If you don't want to use them, don't.

As for the rotation values, i didn't have to calculate that, i just got them from CZG a while ago. But since you basically want one of the angles of a right triangle, i'd say arctan(X/Y) looks right.

[Reply]


Well
#647 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.24], 07/03/2001 23:28 GMT
How the tex is rotated (IMO) also is concerned with the texture itself, how it plays out on the surface, and any effects I might try to go for with its position. Now in the situation of the arches I had in that screenie from imp1sp2, this sort of thing would probably come into play (using a continuous pattern, and creating a flush appearance), but I'd probably just go with 0.72, and leave it at that.

[Reply]


Who The Fuck Cares About Calculations?
#648 Posted by than [194.82.103.78], 08/03/2001 15:52 GMT
It's easy to just rotate stuff using the little up arrow things in wcs texture view until it looks right. Then you just remember the number. Not hard.

-than

[Reply]


Because...
#649 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.82], 08/03/2001 18:06 GMT
the scaling is also a factor

[Reply]


I Agree
#650 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 08/03/2001 18:20 GMT , Refers to Post #648
it really is somewhat of a case-by-case thing. values that might "look" right (and we all know that how it looks is what really counts) on one tex might look plain wrong with another tex.

on a side note, i've found that 63/27 tend to work with just about anything. either way, i've decided that particular angle is always going to produce slightly off texturing. it's unavoidable without floating-point precision.

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#651 Posted by zippie [213.17.88.43], 08/03/2001 21:14 GMT
thats why everyone should build everything solely out of curves :) ok and a few caulk brushes

[Reply]


Hmm
#652 Posted by GrindSpire [62.7.92.5], 08/03/2001 22:40 GMT
* GrindSpire points out the lack of curves in Quake 1/2 to zippie

Or game other than Quake III Arena for that matter

* GrindSpire wonders why he didn't just put Q3A

[Reply]


Texture Problems
#653 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.10], 09/03/2001 05:39 GMT
I had a chance to look at my map INVEIN today. I'm beginning to wonder what I was thinking. Is it just me, or do white textures pretty much suck? It is so much harder to create a scary atmosphere. I'm in need of ideas or comments here.
You've seen the screen-shots, tell me what you think. If you havn't, they are right here => INVEIN SCREENS

Thanks in advance,
Iain <b/>

[Reply]


Iain
#654 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 09/03/2001 06:25 GMT , Refers to Post #653
No, white textures don't suck. "Scariness" comes from a combination of lighting, atmosphere, gameplay and theme.

I once walked around the Big W electric generation plant before it was open...mostly white...very scary. Even though we had to show a hundred different types of clearance to get into the joint, I still expected all sorts of nasties to "come" upon me during the tour.

Go for it!

[Reply]


Iain
#655 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.7.161], 09/03/2001 07:29 GMT , Refers to Post #653
Try mixing in some stuff from the decon.wad, add some greys and blueish things from that and it would look cool. I think your main problem atm is not the colour of the textures but the fact that you are only using the one texture.

[Reply]


zippie Is Still Working On A Title
#656 Posted by zippie [130.161.137.49], 09/03/2001 07:39 GMT
grindy: no need to align textures on any game but q3a, all non-q3a games look ugly anyways :)

/me hides under a rock

[Reply]


!
#657 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.193], 09/03/2001 12:45 GMT
/me kicks zippie, unpacks him and repacks with rar

[Reply]


Man!
#658 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.138], 09/03/2001 12:49 GMT
I`v made a really curvy spiral in q1!
Looks awesome and very smooth

[Reply]


Iain
#659 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 09/03/2001 18:25 GMT
The top right screenshot looks great...

... Speedy - how many polys though?

[Reply]


Iain
#660 Posted by metlslime [140.142.169.179], 09/03/2001 22:48 GMT

I don't think there is anything wrong with your texture set. Two suggestions:

1) Download and play Anonca Base 3.

2) Use eerie ambient sounds -- these really help. The sunniest day in the cheeriest garden can be spooky with the right soundtrack.

Screens look interesting, by the way.

[Reply]


Thanks To All For The Help
#661 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.10], 10/03/2001 05:20 GMT
Grindspire,
Where can I find this, decon.wad ?

Metlslime,
Is Anonca Base 3, a level for Quake1 ? If so, I haven't been able to find it either.

The white textures will remain... with some adustments.

PERSONAL: I may be in the stone age, but I never did finish Q2 (too Tongue), and have yet to try Q3, although <grin> it looks pretty.

Iain <b/>

[Reply]


I Think...
#662 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.225.2], 11/03/2001 00:40 GMT , Refers to Post #661
That it is on Frib's site:

http://www.planetquake.com/frib/

If not try http://deconstruct.terrafusion.com/

[Reply]


Hehe
#663 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.181], 11/03/2001 00:57 GMT , Refers to Post #660
I don't think there is anything wrong with your texture set.

Sounds like the beginning to The Outer Limits.

[Reply]


Iain...
#664 Posted by metlslime [140.142.168.8], 11/03/2001 06:33 GMT

link to anonca base 3 on my website. I'd post a direct link but i have to get offline.

[Reply]


A Not Quake Related Question
#665 Posted by Grahf [209.145.70.125], 12/03/2001 03:54 GMT
Can anybody who has mapped for Unreal tell me which in package all the trees, shrubbery, and leaves textures are? Not I Unreal1.u I hope, as UCC export can't handle that...

[Reply]


Aaaargh!
#666 Posted by palldjon@uni [131.172.4.45], 13/03/2001 02:50 GMT
I've implemented about 3/4 of the suggestions my betaA testers made for my Q1SP level. I'm using WC1.6. Thought I'd run a quick build to check mechanisms and hunt down any holes.

Set the build to "no light" and "fast vis". Build completed and WC called up Quake. Quake loaded, went looking for the map and crashed with the following:

Error: missing frame O for +1_fall.

Need help...must release level...

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Hack Your Wad
#667 Posted by Speedy [213.221.48.61], 13/03/2001 05:18 GMT , Refers to Post #666
and see the animated textures there, the first frame for them MUST be +0, not +1;
so in animating textures sequense just rename one of them into +0_fall,
btw, congrats on post #666 ;)

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Palldjon...
#668 Posted by XeNoN [194.207.214.2], 13/03/2001 13:07 GMT
& make sure ALL the frames of the animation are in the wad.

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Pah...
#669 Posted by Scampie [205.243.60.13], 13/03/2001 17:21 GMT , Refers to Post #667
MY #666 post was better

http://www.qmap.org/qthread.php3?id=20000407155800&pos=665

<g0at>

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Hehe
#670 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.195.38], 14/03/2001 03:54 GMT
Why does the phrase "hack your wad" sound really gross to me?

Moon

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<-- No-one Ever Uses This Icon So I Will
#671 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.164.18], 14/03/2001 07:45 GMT , Refers to Post #670
Cos you have a perverted mind =)

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"Hack Your Wad"?
#672 Posted by Johnny Latex [152.163.204.189], 14/03/2001 10:04 GMT , Refers to Post #670
Actually, I used that tag line in several of my *ahem* -- productions. Tried to turn it into a song, too, but oddly enough I couldn't get a label deal...

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Champions One And All...
#673 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 15/03/2001 01:40 GMT , Refers to Post #667
Thanx Speedy and XeNoN. Will implement your suggestions this weekend. Can't get near my comp till then due to rehearsals for the current stage production. Will let you know what hacking my wad produced.

On an associated note. Can either of you recommend a .wad management tool? Since I've hit the stack overflow limit in WC I'm in real need.

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Yep Scampie...
#674 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 15/03/2001 01:42 GMT , Refers to Post #669
For a general thread, your #666 post was unbeatable.

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Texture Wad Management?
#675 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.189], 15/03/2001 02:20 GMT , Refers to Post #673
TexMex -- no question.

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I've Heard Of It...
#676 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 15/03/2001 02:35 GMT , Refers to Post #675
available at ???Smile

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Texmex, Palldjon
#677 Posted by Fern [24.147.243.193], 15/03/2001 04:33 GMT , Refers to Post #676
www.planetwank.com/texmex

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D'oh.
#678 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.195.183], 15/03/2001 04:42 GMT , Refers to Post #677
Good save, Fern. Sorry 'bout that, Palldjon.

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OMG
#679 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 15/03/2001 04:59 GMT , Refers to Post #678
So, I'll find Texmex at PlanetWank and then I'll be able to hack my wad.

This is all getting a bit hard to swallow.

Thanks Fern, no big Biff.

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YAY!
#680 Posted by GrindSpire [213.1.188.175], 15/03/2001 07:21 GMT , Refers to Post #679
That is now two threads with dodgy cum jokes =)

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Maxx Aggression Beta
#681 Posted by Dlord8 [65.65.175.57], 15/03/2001 18:19 GMT
I wanted to get your opinions on the boiler room(slime filled area with the mh). Is it to loud, and in need of being toned down. PLease comment.

screen shot 1
screen shot 2
screen shot 3
screen shot 4

Thanks for the input

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Dlord
#682 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.57], 15/03/2001 20:52 GMT , Refers to Post #681
You mean what's in the second screenie? Oh yeah, it's too busy -- like SalsaQuake! Those ceiling lights in the first shot are a bit too too, as well. A lot about lighting (and particularly colored lighting) is subtlety, so that when you do have something striking, it has more of an effect. Same goes for texture choices -- not too bland, but enough to provide a sense of place (yeah, I need to learn this one too).

The other shots look cool (nice architecture, especially), except for being a little bright.

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Biff_Debris
#683 Posted by Dlord8 [65.65.175.57], 15/03/2001 21:13 GMT , Refers to Post #682
Thanks for the comments. I looked at the screens and the map isn't that bright on my dev quake install. That was done on my q3 play install. I'll change the brightness down a notch. I've added some trim in the hallways to offset that bland back and side walls. The boiler room is going to be reworked in the next couple of days.

I've been trying to get feedback on lighting. I think it's too dark, but the screenshots too bright. I want to be somewhere in between. Just want it to be medium for all users as possible with diff cards and settings.

Thanks again !

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Lighting Suggestions
#684 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 15/03/2001 22:13 GMT , Refers to Post #683
set your dev. machine to the defaul light settings. develop off of that. it's pretty much impossible to get it looking good on a real wide range of setups. i find that sticking to the defaults (what all the id maps were developed around) tends to produce the best results.

also, monitor settings can really throw you off. make sure that a black background in windows is really black on the monitor, not a faded gray color (brightness too high). white should be white, but not overly bright. something like a contrast of around 75-85% and a brightness around 50% should do nicely.

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Brightness Monitor
#685 Posted by Dlord8 [24.167.9.139], 16/03/2001 00:02 GMT , Refers to Post #683
Yeah I found out my brightness was 1 tick above middle. That's why map was so bright. Got that fixed.

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No Prob, Man.
#686 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.52], 16/03/2001 00:13 GMT , Refers to Post #683
Hope to see your map posted at LvL soon.

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Dlord
#687 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.8], 16/03/2001 00:25 GMT
In terms of lighting, the fourth screenshot looks the best. Dynamic swathes of shadows, separated by bright overhead lighting, does generally look good in game. You might want to turn down the green-ness in screenshot two, as it clashes with the red in the tech wall texture.

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Need Help About Q2 Animated Textures
#688 Posted by Jaj [62.83.5.91], 16/03/2001 01:03 GMT
Well, i have a problem with the animated textures of Quake2.
I type "map blah" (where blah is the map with the animated texture) and then quake2 gets frozen, then you know... some famous key combinatios and my pc is reinitiating (and me irritating ;) ).
I put in a brush face the first texture frame, +0texname.... quake2 crashed!

Then i put to the rest of the brush faces another tex, BUT one tex from the same place where the animated one is, for example if +0tex is in e1u1, i chose another tex from e1u1 too, anyway quake2 crashed again...

I thought it could be because my worldcraft configuration makes it take the textures from the folder .../textures/e1u1 instead from the .pak directly.... well, i changed this in Wc, so it take the texes from pak0.pak.... but as always quake2 crashed miserably...

When i was about hanging me, i had one final idea, aha!, maybe if i compile the map without lighting and it works then is all caused by the light program....deceived of me.... quake2 .....

I need help, what is happening?, am i forgetting something (as usual in me)?.... i thought i knew how to put an animated texture in Q2, but ...

P.D: Oh! i proved these too:
- Made a brush with the same number of faces as the animated tex had Tongue
- Put the +1texname frame instead of +0texname (i was desperated)
None of them worked of course

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Huh...???
#689 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 16/03/2001 01:53 GMT , Refers to Post #680
Question

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Jaj
#690 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.193], 16/03/2001 03:00 GMT , Refers to Post #688
Are you using a id animated tex for q2, or have you created your own? I was wanting to run a testmap to see what you were talking about, but I'm not sure.

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Mapping Question
#691 Posted by sorrow [24.95.16.176], 16/03/2001 18:04 GMT
Um...for some reason I don't see the func_explosive in gtkradiant I need to create a wall that explodes when shot.

Thanks
sorrow[T7S]

Also I'm new to this but I have an idea for a mod, if a good programmer would like to hear about it, and has the time to commit. Feel free to e-mail me.

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Func_Explosion
#692 Posted by Dlord8 [65.65.175.57], 16/03/2001 18:14 GMT , Refers to Post #691
Doesn't exist anymore

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Ok...
#693 Posted by sorrow [24.95.16.176], 16/03/2001 18:18 GMT , Refers to Post #692
So what do I do then? I need to be able to make blocks that explode.

sorrow[T7S]

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Then..
#694 Posted by Fingers [206.63.254.99], 16/03/2001 18:22 GMT
..you switch to some other game than Q3 :P

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Seriously Now
#695 Posted by sorrow [24.95.16.176], 16/03/2001 18:24 GMT , Refers to Post #694
there must be a way, I can't believe id would have taken that out.

):

sorrow[T7S]

^---starts digging through his rolodex looking for Carmacks number.

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Nope
#696 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 16/03/2001 18:29 GMT , Refers to Post #695
func_explosive was only good for one use, so it's somewhat pointless in a dm map. q3:a was a dm based game. all included entities are geared toward dm. all sp oriented entities were removed. no func_explosive... unless you want to start writing the code for it. sorry.

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Ok Then...
#697 Posted by sorrow [24.95.16.176], 16/03/2001 18:48 GMT

Do you know of any way to make a block go away? other then doors

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Sorrow
#698 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.211], 16/03/2001 22:43 GMT , Refers to Post #697
Mebbe q3 has a func_wall, then? You can make it disappear by using a "killtarget" key (giving the wall the name "wall", and using that name as the killtarget to make the wall disappear).

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Biff
#699 Posted by Jaj [62.175.104.196], 17/03/2001 00:26 GMT , Refers to Post #690
I'm using the original id textures

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Something 1337
#700 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 17/03/2001 21:23 GMT
Just discovered a cool trick in Q1, I'm sure you all know of it:

Make an info_notnull.
Target it by something.
Give it a key "use".
Give the "use" key a value of something that is called in the .QC, IE barrel_explode, which calls up an explosion.
When info_notnull is triggered, (used in QC terms) it executes it's self.use, and thus can do a variety of entertaining things.
I tried calling a teleport particle flash too, but that didn't work out too well sadly.

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Woot
#701 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 17/03/2001 22:05 GMT
Post 700!
Is that cool or what!

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HOLY Shit!!
#702 Posted by DeFrag [207.227.185.40], 17/03/2001 23:08 GMT
I just really can't believe I got post #702. Damn that really is the best thing thats ever happened to me!! My mom says good things shall come my way now. CREAM!!

I wish everyone could understand my enthusiasm. I think I'll crouch in the background of ALL these threads just lying in wait to pounce on even-multiples of 100, 333, or 1000.

Hey Peej, if we ever see a Millionth post, what do we win!? hehe

bluh (no offense CZ I still luv ya ;)

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Hmm, No Title
#703 Posted by Fern [172.167.172.4], 18/03/2001 00:46 GMT
When info_notnull is triggered i.e. when something targets it's targetname? (btw this is much better than shooting barrels with nails if it actually works :))

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Still Having Probs?
#704 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.27], 18/03/2001 01:38 GMT , Refers to Post #699
I loaded the e1u1 tex for WC, and made a test map using the animated comp10_1 texture -- and only included the "+0" frame in the map, and it ran fine. I dunno what to tell you...

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Neato
#705 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.27], 18/03/2001 01:39 GMT , Refers to Post #700
So we can trigger explosions and stuff? That'll be killer for sp maps.

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...
#706 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.223.99], 18/03/2001 11:00 GMT , Refers to Post #701
No

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*Error* - "Ed_alloc: No Free Edits."
#707 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.135.141], 18/03/2001 12:33 GMT
Not really mapping related, but PLEASE can someone tell me how to increase the max no. of edicts in a Quake level! I tried playing on easy skill on several different Quake engines, but no can do; I get an error while playing hip1m3 (going up the mine shaft), and Quake crashes.

Please Can someone help?

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There Is Only One Solution:
#708 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 18/03/2001 16:02 GMT
Get a new exe!
Yes, I'm sorry, but the only way to increase max_edicts is to use a new exe.

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Yeah...
#709 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.33], 18/03/2001 18:34 GMT
should have mentioned that to you guys....Smile

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Thanks...
#710 Posted by Jaj [62.83.27.205], 18/03/2001 19:48 GMT , Refers to Post #704
... sure i'm forgetting something, i'll keep on trying until it work :)

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#711 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.87], 18/03/2001 19:51 GMT , Refers to Post #707
I think that glquake has more edicts than winquake, which has more edicts than dosquake, so that *may* help.

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Well
#712 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.32], 18/03/2001 20:12 GMT , Refers to Post #710
I can mail you the map file if you want.

If you're using WC, after I initially had it extract the texture folders from the paks, I selected e1u1 from the "treed" list it always gives when selecting .wal files. When it askes if it should add the subdirectories as seperate groups, I just put "no", and have never had any probs.

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Unlit Models
#713 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.224.74], 18/03/2001 23:11 GMT
A quake monster or weapon spawning (either by 'falling' or teleporting) onto a func model appears to be unlit (at least in gl)..ie totally black. Is there a way round this or do I just need to avoid spawning monsters/weapons on lifts/trains/func_walls etc.?

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Re: Unlit Models
#714 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 18/03/2001 23:37 GMT
Just make sure the next level of solid ground under the platform is properly lit.

Look! I used the lightbulb icon for a lighting question!

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Free Eddicts !
#715 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.138], 19/03/2001 09:08 GMT
Now you can do alot of things !
1) Ask Tyrann to give you his proggie that removes static lights after compile
2) do that yourself mannually and recompile bsp -onlyents
3) you need qc patch that has some workarounds for this (like czg07stats by Radix - highly recommended for skill 2 for this map pack, get it at pq/sda); if you make map with modified qc do that yourself(or ask some coder)

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Re: Free Eddicts !
#716 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 19/03/2001 14:39 GMT , Refers to Post #715
1) Ask Tyrann to give you his proggie that removes static lights after compile

It's not quite that simple, it only helps in some cases. Only lights with targetnames count as edicts. The trick is that if you have multiple lights with the same targetname, then you can remove all but one of them once the lighting is done. You still need one so that the light style can be targeted.

It just happens that there is a map in OUM with around 300 lights that have the same targetname, so it's bloody essential for that map to even run =).

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Neh Saved My Life...
#717 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.75.187], 19/03/2001 18:09 GMT
GLquake buggered it up in the first place, and TomazQuake wouldn't even run the map. Then I remembered Nehahra.exe. which worked fine.

But surely ritual would have noticed that before releasing a commercial product?! Anyone else have the same problem?

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#718 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 19/03/2001 23:08 GMT
But surely ritual would have noticed that before releasing a commercial product?! Anyone else have the same problem?

Er, it runs fine for me using dos quake on skill 3. demos recorded on it don't play back though.

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BTW. Hehehe
#719 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 19/03/2001 23:09 GMT
Some of the hipnotic maps also have grey flashes and disappearing brush models due to high r_speeds. It was kinda funny when I discovered that :)

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Biff
#720 Posted by Jaj [62.83.149.206], 20/03/2001 01:30 GMT , Refers to Post #712
Mail me your .map to see if i'm forgetting something, i don't think so but....
I've tried it again doing what you've commented.. and crashed again, then i deleted all e1u*, extracted again from the paks, and selected e1u1 putting "no" to that question, but i didn't work.
I have qbsp3, qvis3 and qrad3 into the folder ...worldcraft\q2tools\, i've compiled manually with the qbsp3 into the ...baseq2\maps\ folder but it didn't work.
If your .map doesn't reveal to me that i'm doing something wrong, well... i'll reinstall quake2 again and maybe worldcraft.
One last detail, i make some cinematics by me Yay!, and put them instead the original ones, i did this to save some disk space, hehe, i think this may not affect to making maps with animated textures, but.. perhaps i'm wrong...

Thanks for all man! Smile

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HELP!
#721 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.91.245], 20/03/2001 20:34 GMT
i compiled my q1 sp map today, and when i try to run it i get the error ALLOCBLOCK: FULL or something to that effect. it happens ONLY when i try to load my bsp (nothing to do with the modified qc, glquake, etc), i run glquake @ 1024x768, usually heapsize at 32megs

also, i get 2 degenerate plane errors when qbsping this sucker, anyway to track these/get rid of em? any chance they're whats causing the crash?

/me tries compiling again

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ALLOCBLOCK:FULL
#722 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.187], 20/03/2001 23:04 GMT , Refers to Post #721
Is heapsize the same as Winmem? It's not, is it? I dunno the exact command (I do it thru QuakeOn), but try boosting winmem to 32 -- I think that's your prob, Ray.

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Yes
#723 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 20/03/2001 23:44 GMT
heapsize is the same as winmem, only in Kb instead of Mb

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D'oh.
#724 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.171], 20/03/2001 23:57 GMT , Refers to Post #723
Is that what's causing Ray's problem?

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Allocblock: Full & Degenerate Planes
#725 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.224.73], 21/03/2001 00:37 GMT
Something similar I had was cured (I think) by getting rid of some dodgy vertex-manipulated brushes. They may be causing both errors.

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Yeah...
#726 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.236], 21/03/2001 03:22 GMT
see thats what i thought glassman (btw is your name after the DCI drum corps group? prolly not)... but i deleted my lame ass pseudo-terrain, reducing the map to what i've had built for over a month, and compiled, and it STILL gave the error.

just to check if it was the map file that got corrupted or something, i compiled a different .map file (a part of the sp map i decided to build separately for various reasons) and IT gave the error too. weird.

thing is, after realizing there was an invalid brush in my map, and seeing the error WARNING: COULD NOT BUILD BRUSH FACES, several times during qbsp without any progress, i control-c killed the prog, and afterwards is when the problems began. however a diff qbsp didn't help, even exporting to .map (from .rmf, this is worldcraft ya know) and didn't help.

think i'll reinstall wc, restart, and see what happens. regardless, this is PISSING me OFF.



btw, heapsize had no effect on the crash at all. not that i think it really would, it was only 2000 some brushes, no lights, a few doors, no monsters, plenty for the engine to handle.

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Hmm
#727 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.236], 21/03/2001 04:19 GMT
weirdest thing e v e r

reinstalled wc, loaded up my finale.map (the second file, separate from main .rmf), saved the .map as .rmf, exported the new .rmf to .map, compiled, worked.

tried the same for the sp.rmf/map. didn't work. damnit. restart (after glquake crashes and hangs for 34643747457567th time), load up wc, open older backup of sp files/compile/don't work. opened up newer version, saw a huge ass infinite plane in my .rmf file that i had never even saw before not to say it was there all along, that cannot be true. anways, it compiled. no idea what happened. bizarre.
weird things like this always seem to happen when i mess with doing decent looking terrain.

ugh.

its been a long day.and i've got a bad feeling the error will come back.
cheers to you guys for offering help though Smile

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Curved Cieling In A Curve...
#728 Posted by DaZ [213.1.178.215], 21/03/2001 18:23 GMT
Errr, ok this is probably the hardest thing to do in mapping... I have a curved cieling with three brushes on each side making up the curve and one in the center as the roof. So thats 7 brushes making up the entire curved cieling. Now I have to do a 90 degree turn with this cieling... In a smooth curve... ITS FUCKING EVIL! I swear I've seen other mappers do it so any tips would greatly help... Thanks

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RAY!!
#729 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.168], 21/03/2001 19:26 GMT
ALLOCBLOCK:FULL

Uh, this is not particularly a small error that can easily be fixed. As far as I know it only happens in GlQuake (or other GL enhanced engines) when the map has heeeeowge areas where the player can see large distances in a straight line. "Source of Power" had this problem, and can only work in Win/Software Quake.

So i recommend adding alot more "visblocks" if this is the case. Anyhow, its due to an overall design flaw fo the map being too spacious (if not, then say so)

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QED
#730 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.168], 21/03/2001 19:29 GMT
Oh, and people, use daz's post as a reason not to give my beloved editor bad press (i can do that thing easy)!

Bwahahaha!!! Yay!

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RE: Curved Ceiling...
#731 Posted by Jay [24.147.137.18], 21/03/2001 19:49 GMT
Make a "prefab" hallway segment and subtract a large brush from it at both ends at an angle of say 15'. Then just rotate copies of that segment into position...
The segment should look like..
&nbsp;&nbsp;/-------\
/---------\

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Now For My Question..
#732 Posted by Jay [24.147.137.18], 21/03/2001 19:52 GMT
Roughly speaking, what is the highest accpetable r_speeds value for Quake2. I don't care about software players.

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Grrr...
#733 Posted by Tron [203.38.138.22], 21/03/2001 23:03 GMT
Jay: Then you are an evil evil man...

Daz: It's a bitch to make from scratch but on the qboard once headshot posted a link to a .map of his curved tunnel from bless to kill, have a look there if you want. If you can't find it I *might* have it at home and can upload it. I'm at school now tho.

Tron

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Rough Call
#734 Posted by kanaeda [64.193.4.77], 21/03/2001 23:22 GMT , Refers to Post #732
the engine *will* show signs of stress once you break about 650 world polys.it usually only shows slight indications during actual dm gameplay at that point. i'm running a p3-450@504 (112 mhz FSB) w/ 256 mb of ram and a geforce ddr, and i can see it when the engine is getting overworked. sure, i might be picky but i don't like to see the framerate dip much at all. if it doesn't stay silky smooth at all times, then something is being stressed and it damn sure isn't the video card.

don't forget to keep an eye on your e_polys, too. it's real easy for those to get out of control and hinder performance just like overloading the world geometry.

now, more to the point... i'd shoot for a max ceiling of 600-650 in all areas where major combat will occur (stand in the middle of your rooms and look all over whie eyeing the r_speeds meter). do the same from the corners of the rooms and obscure angles and make sure they don't pop over around 800-850. keep within those limits and you're almost guaranteed to have a pretty fast running level.

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Kan
#735 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.195.183], 21/03/2001 23:54 GMT , Refers to Post #734
Are you talking generally or for DM maps only?

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Curved Ceiling
#736 Posted by Gilt [154.5.69.223], 22/03/2001 00:54 GMT
Pingu has his maps availible.

There are many ways to make them, but his way is probably the easiest. Plus once you realize how it's done it's pretty easy to customize it.

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Weirdest Thing Ever
#737 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.156], 22/03/2001 00:59 GMT
I may have you beat, Ray: My map's been compiling with QBSP reporting a leak, and making a .pts file, but vis still runs!

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That Woud Be Dm
#738 Posted by kanaeda [64.193.4.77], 22/03/2001 02:05 GMT , Refers to Post #735
when it comes to sp, i'd probly bump both of these ranges up by about 200 polys or so. maybe a max of 1k in the bad spots and avg. max of 650-800. that should keep things moving along pretty well.

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That's What I Was Thinking
#739 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.152], 22/03/2001 02:40 GMT , Refers to Post #738
God knows id and the mission packs even blew those specs out of the water!

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Actually Biff..
#740 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.91.250], 22/03/2001 04:43 GMT , Refers to Post #737
my files in question, when they were screwing up, were generating a .pts file AND a .prt file. however tyrlite and rvis crashed upon trying to execute, in addition to several COULD NOT CREATE BRUSH FACES errors

so nyah nyah nyah!

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Dammit, Ray
#741 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.26], 22/03/2001 05:10 GMT , Refers to Post #740
You got me there. I know when I'm beat...

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Curves
#742 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.223], 22/03/2001 05:52 GMT
I dont get what you try to do exactly Daz (grin), but just scewl bushes. I dont recommend rotating as editor will go off grid and srew your structure even for 45 deg rotation, not to say some tricky agles, like 30.
And if you want to make really complex real-like curves from brushes you`d need to cut brushes to triangles like the 3degine would actualy do. Dont trust wc`s vertex manipulation.

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Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#743 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.223], 22/03/2001 06:07 GMT , Refers to Post #742
sorry for typos...
and btw, you sure should take a look at pingu`s and czg`s .map files

[Reply]


DaZ
#744 Posted by Eggman [151.202.209.150], 22/03/2001 17:19 GMT , Refers to Post #728
Here I recreated what you asked for in a .map file using convex brushes.

http://www.planetquake.com/johnny/curvycurve.map.zip

Just axe off the .zip on the file, in case that wasn't evident enough.

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I've Got Another One
#745 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.162], 22/03/2001 18:15 GMT , Refers to Post #740
In my map, I can put a monster in an area(correctly, within the space), and -- no matter what it is -- it won't show up in the map when compiled!

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DaZ Again
#746 Posted by Eggman [151.202.209.150], 22/03/2001 23:31 GMT
I don't know if you got the file before PQ changed my domain but if not here is the file.

File

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Fixed It
#747 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.187], 22/03/2001 23:36 GMT
I put a baddie that already was working in the Bad Place, and all was fine again. I have no idea why, but hey -- it works now.

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DaZ
#748 Posted by Grahf [209.145.70.148], 23/03/2001 02:18 GMT
Base the ceiling off of the standard 0:2 2:4 4:2 2:0 12 sided cylinder, and chop the bottom off. There is a way to make those tubes twistand turn very nicely, but I don't quite understand it. A while back, CZG posted a prefab here to show how it's done. If you don't have it, I posted links to my mirror of the files in the "Mapping Maths" thread yesterday. I guess it is done by skewing...

[Reply]


Question About Importing Files
#749 Posted by Christopher [138.129.19.173], 23/03/2001 03:10 GMT
I am hoping one of you guys might be able able to help me out. I am very new at this, so have a little patience. I am wondering if there is a way to import 3DStudio or .dxf/.dwg files into a level editor. I am interested in constructing a level out of a building that I created. Is there any chance of this? -Thanks

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Skins & Mdls
#750 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 23/03/2001 13:00 GMT
How do you get more than one skin into an mdl? Is there a special utility needed? I'm using Meddle but it doesn't seem to have a facility for this.

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Thanks All
#751 Posted by DaZ [213.122.183.213], 23/03/2001 18:56 GMT
Didn't think I'd get that much feedback! Cheers...

yeah CZG's curve examples helped a lot and I've fixed the offending brushes now Smile

On with the map!

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Glassman:
#752 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.145], 24/03/2001 08:16 GMT
get QME
http://www.quakemods.net/ftp/unsupported/quake/editors/qme30.zip

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I Use Quark
#753 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.200], 24/03/2001 09:17 GMT , Refers to Post #750
In Quark it's fairly easy to add skins to a model: just right-click in the window showing little thumbnails of skins and select the load option :)

It may be here but I can't 'member.

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Door Without A Sound?
#754 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 24/03/2001 09:31 GMT
Is it possible to make a door without a sound? I tried putting "sounds" "9". Then the door is completely silent but quake throws some error message on top of the screen about not finding the sound effect..

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Hanz
#755 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.202], 24/03/2001 12:53 GMT
It is possible
just dont use any "sounds"
not all editors allo that tho

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Hanz
#756 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.76.68], 24/03/2001 14:33 GMT
Value: "0" works as well, suprisingly

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Thanks. And Another Question..
#757 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 24/03/2001 17:34 GMT
Yea thanks I got it working (geetz what a surprise Smile).

But is it possible to make a rising/lowering water level in Quake? I tried making a door entity out of a water brush, but the water became solid Tongue

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Moving Water In Q1 Is:
#758 Posted by CZG [195.204.46.8], 24/03/2001 17:35 GMT
Impossible.


You may choose to make your entire level a func_door and lower it into a tank of water, but that is evil.

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Heh
#759 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 24/03/2001 18:29 GMT
Yea, I tried that already and it's very evil yeah Wink. I was just thinking if there would be a less speed-intensive way to do it but apparently there isn't Sad

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Uhh..damn
#760 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 24/03/2001 18:57 GMT
When I make another door entity inside that huge "whole-map"-door, then neither of the doors work correctly. Maybe Quake thinks they're both the same door since the other is inside the other, dunno.

*sigh* I really wanted to do a map with rising water level..

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You Caould Always Use Quake2
#761 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.135.167], 24/03/2001 20:42 GMT
Smile

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Quake 2 Is Not An Option!
#762 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 24/03/2001 21:53 GMT
the monsters and weapons suck

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#763 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.136], 25/03/2001 04:58 GMT
if 2 doors touch quake thinks they are one and operate as unit.
Use func_train/plat for 1 instead

Eggman: your file seems to be b0rked

[Reply]


Hipnotic
#764 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 25/03/2001 05:52 GMT
Where can i get the hipnotic ents?
Or jsut some code for rotating brushes and 'advanced' trains etc ?

**
Also, i have an animated texture, that doesnt animate.. I have put the +0"name" on the brush, but it doesnt animte..

How can i get WC to do this?

[Reply]


Guys,
#765 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.202], 25/03/2001 06:05 GMT
Remind me to upload my copy of the CUSTENTS file as apparently, from what I can tell, Ol' "watrench" Glaive is abandoned by Telefragged.com.

I'll do that l8r when Im sober, I hope

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Hooray
#766 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 25/03/2001 06:09 GMT
Hooray, thanks Mr Fatty

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Func_doors Touching
#767 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.22], 25/03/2001 06:33 GMT
i think you can set a spawnflag that is "dont link doors" and i think that spawnflag is 4.

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Yay
#768 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 25/03/2001 11:13 GMT
That "dont link" worked perfectly. Thanks

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Asriel
#769 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.49], 25/03/2001 11:23 GMT , Refers to Post #764
As per the animated tex prob, you need to have all the "frame" tex of the animation somewhere on the map for it to work. Just make a cube somewhere outside the world with the other frames on it, and it should work fine.

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Cheers
#770 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 26/03/2001 09:12 GMT , Refers to Post #769
Thanks heaps Biff

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S'alrite.
#771 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.62], 26/03/2001 10:08 GMT , Refers to Post #770
=)

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Where To Get Ogro Textures?
#772 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 27/03/2001 16:15 GMT
I know http://www.planetquake.com/pandemonium/
but both planetquake mirrors for ogropak.zip are broken :(

Also, where to get the excellent textures GlassMan used in his recent map? Those were from Xatrix's Quake 2 mission pack.

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Q2MP1 Textures
#773 Posted by metlslime [140.142.170.139], 27/03/2001 16:39 GMT
Also, where to get the excellent textures GlassMan used in his recent map? Those were from Xatrix's Quake 2 mission pack.

I think CompUSA/Electronics Boutique/Babbages have them still Smile

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N/m About The Ogropak
#774 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 27/03/2001 17:03 GMT
I found ogro textures from here:
http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/default.asp?file=ogro

metlslime, are you suggesting I should buy it? Because that ain't gonna happen Wink

[Reply]


Ladder
#775 Posted by huF [212.108.194.245], 27/03/2001 21:15 GMT
can ne1 tell me how to make a ladder in quake 1 (ONE) (not 2 or 3)?
OR
alternatively you could direct me to a site where i can find the info
AND
dont tell me to use a clip whatever, cause i have NO clue what that is
thx

[Reply]


That's Exactly It.
#776 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 27/03/2001 21:21 GMT , Refers to Post #774
if you want the textures, then you should purchase the mission pack (which is damn good stuff). it's that simple really.

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HuF
#777 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 27/03/2001 22:08 GMT
At least 'The Pit' had ladders that were made just by putting the brushes _almost_ vertically. So they were actually stairs but with very narrow steps.

You could also use wind system like in the 'Wind Tunnels'. Dunno if it would work well though.


kanaeda I'm so damn stingy (I hope that's the right word) that I'm gonna rip those textures from glassman's map and just ask his permission. Hahaha Evil

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Xatrix Tex (xxx?)
#778 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.34], 27/03/2001 23:45 GMT
Them boys did some killer texture work (Q2 mission pack and Kingpin). Aren't they Human Head (and doing the new Wolf) now?

[Reply]


HuF
#779 Posted by metlslime [140.142.169.53], 28/03/2001 00:22 GMT
Use a clip whatever.

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Uhhh
#780 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 28/03/2001 00:39 GMT
the pit and the wind tunnels both had bad ladders. A real ladder is just a visual of a ladder and a small staircase of clip brushes with something like 16 units height difference and one unit length and width difference.

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Now This Is A Stupid Question:
#781 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 28/03/2001 00:57 GMT
How to make a clip brush in Worldcraft?

And Kingpin indeed had great textures. It's the best looking iD engine game I've ever seen (yeah I've seen Q3A!). Dunno about Human Head name but yup they're working on the new Wolf.

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Hanz
#782 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 28/03/2001 01:17 GMT
make a brush with the clip texture. that's all. it works just like any other brush except it's invisible and you can shoot through it :)

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Ookay
#783 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 28/03/2001 16:29 GMT
Thanks, I actually didn't realize earlier that the texture properties only depend on the texture name..

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èäåÿ...
#784 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.173], 29/03/2001 05:23 GMT
èäåÿ... èäåÿ...


...èäåÿíàõîæóñü?

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Speedy
#785 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 29/03/2001 07:22 GMT
You certainly seem to need help, and I'm quite sure you don't need mapping help but psycological or writing help Smile

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Not Human Head...
#786 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 29/03/2001 18:49 GMT , Refers to Post #778
Grey Matter. and yeah, they're doing the new wolfy game.

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They're Gonna Have A Tough Time
#787 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.61], 29/03/2001 19:05 GMT , Refers to Post #786
Doing a better job than the Metal of Honor guys -- the screenies I've seen of it look like photographs from that "real life" game =P

Altho, I'd guess the Wolfie team would be prone to have more of a fantastic take on things.

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Metal Of Honor
#788 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.179], 30/03/2001 05:36 GMT
is boring realism, castlewolf is surreal/horror thats why it`s cooler

[Reply]


Janus Syndrome Release
#789 Posted by Dlord8 [65.65.175.57], 30/03/2001 22:07 GMT
Hi guys and Gals,

Just wanted to let you know Anwulf has released hi new level The Janus Syndrome. You can download it from our web site Click here for more...

Janus Syndrome Release
#790 Posted by Dlord8 [65.65.175.57], 30/03/2001 22:09 GMT , Refers to Post #789
Sorry set the web address wrong.

Here is the correct one. Teamhuh.com

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Dlord8
#791 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 30/03/2001 22:33 GMT , Refers to Post #790
You also have the wrong thread, this one is called "Mapping Help"

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Heh, I Needed A Laugh
#792 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 31/03/2001 23:31 GMT
dont tell me to use a clip whatever, cause i have NO clue what that is
thx


I just saw that in huf's post. heh. LEARN WHAT THE FUCK IT IS!! Smile

[Reply]


24 | 32 Bit Texes: Am I Wrong Or Not?
#793 Posted by Jaj [62.83.19.22], 01/04/2001 00:05 GMT
I've been experimenting a little with the TomazQuake engine using some TGA textures and the result is really good, but i have a dude, or not exactly that, better i need a confirmation of what i'm going to say :) :

I think that if you use 32 bits tga textures or 24 bit ones, the result for your eyes when you load the map it's the same, the human eye can't distinguish more than 24 bits (aprox. 16.000.000 colors).
So i think the 32 bits textures should be only used when it's needed the alpha channel for the transparencies (crystals, water etc...).
Well, then: 32 bit textures must be used for transparent stuff the map has, and the rest must be 24 bit, is that correct or not?

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Custents
#794 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 01/04/2001 01:51 GMT
Did anyone else get the custents FGD file in the custents zip that Fatty provided?

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Huh?
#795 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.201], 01/04/2001 07:33 GMT , Refers to Post #794
I can't even remember if there was one in there. I just converted the damned thing from RAR to ZIP format.

Don't tell me, I fucked up again, right?

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32bit = Alpha Channel
#796 Posted by Grahf [209.145.70.174], 02/04/2001 02:18 GMT , Refers to Post #793
If you save a TGA as 32 bit, but don't give it an alpha channel, you will usually end up with either an all black or all white alpha channel. As far as I know, TomazQuake has little use for alpha channels, so you're just bloating the file with 32 bit. (unless of course Tomaz adds SimpleShade support into the next version, or something)

Other than that, picture quality is the same.

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Well
#797 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 02/04/2001 04:20 GMT , Refers to Post #794
If you just converted it, then im sure its not your fault.

Oh well

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Textures
#798 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.242], 02/04/2001 05:46 GMT
No quake port uses alpha afaik, so you`d better convert to non alpha. And use independent palette pcx - they take much less space.
Jpeg textures are suppoted by some engines aswell (hope JPG loading will be in all ports soon)

[Reply]


QOOLE V097 &0.99 (quake 1)
#799 Posted by Basilisk5 [62.7.40.94], 02/04/2001 21:20 GMT
Does anyone use Qoole? and if so can someone give me some pointers as of how to make something rotate, like in "scourge of armagon" mission pack. i am new to the world of editing, so im fairly lame at this :|

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About Textures, Alpha Channel, Formats..
#800 Posted by Jaj [62.83.140.16], 02/04/2001 23:15 GMT
Grahf: Aha!... :) it's what i thought, 32 bit is the same quality as 24... thanks

And thanks Speedy for mentioning the use of .pcx and .jpg formats, i forgot experimenting with those formats ... i've proved them and tomazquake reads both, even the jpg!! :)

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Basiliskus Vulgaris Rex
#801 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 02/04/2001 23:47 GMT , Refers to Post #799
Well, to make stuff rotate, you need the Scourge of Armagon entity set. (Read: The Scourge of Armagon progs.dat)
To get the stuff to appear in your map, requires a pretty fucking very complex setup of many awful entities that never should have been invented, it requires you to have some pretty bloody decent good compilers, and quite a good deal of luck.
You may read this to be slightly enlightened though, if you want to give it a shot.

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Q2 Engine Maps
#802 Posted by Tronyn(acc2) [142.165.70.20], 03/04/2001 04:25 GMT
I've got several Q2 engine maps that've been sitting idle on my system for several months. Three of them are very large and I cannot compile them. If someone could do me the favour of compiling them, I would be greatly indebted to that individual!

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How To Light An Outside Area?
#803 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 03/04/2001 14:46 GMT
Quake 1 doesn't have surface lights so how do I make a directional ambient light to outside areas? I really wouldn't like to bother adding 100+ small lights..

[Reply]


Hanzi My Boy...
#804 Posted by CZG [130.67.143.49], 03/04/2001 15:04 GMT , Refers to Post #803
You simply use Tyranns delicious little light proggie called Tyrlite, which will let you cast some pretty nifty sunlight just about anywhere!

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TQ 1.44
#805 Posted by DaZ [213.122.241.18], 03/04/2001 19:45 GMT , Refers to Post #796
has support for alpha channels and simple shader effects a.k.a Q3. The list of stuff you can use is a little limited atm but you can create some very cool effects using a combo of alpha channels and moving textures...

/pimp

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#806 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.85], 04/04/2001 12:11 GMT
oh yeah? Interesting. If anyone has a Mac they should check out p0x's eQuake (www.pq.com/paroxysm), it owns.

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Thanks Czg
#807 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 04/04/2001 15:14 GMT
Now i feel dumb of using dozens of lights to do the job.. quite improperly even.. I just hope fileplanet servers were less crowded and I could actually download the program

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Hanz
#808 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 05/04/2001 09:06 GMT
You will probably use more than a dozen lights to get your walls the same lightness as your 'sky'. Iv found that Tyraans wicked light proggy doesnt light the walls very well.

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Asriel
#809 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 05/04/2001 14:01 GMT
No it doesn't light the walls at all when the light is pointing straight down Evil

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ARRGG Worldcraft 1.6a 3d View Sux00rs
#810 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 05/04/2001 15:04 GMT
At least 50% of times when I try to pick an object or surface from the 3d view, it picks a totally wrong object. Sometimes the object it picks is not even in the view frustum! Then I have to move the view around so that I can select the object I want.

It's really annoying, is there anything I can do to fix this? I have Geforce DDR so I use OpenGL acceleration for the 3d view.

Or is texturing made better in some other editor?

[Reply]


Hmm
#811 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.193], 05/04/2001 19:52 GMT , Refers to Post #810
The only time I've ever had that prob was when brushes were overlapping, or otherwise occupying the same place. Dunno what else would cause it.

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Hanz
#812 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 05/04/2001 20:10 GMT
Are you using the wireframe view? maybe 3-d or textured would be a better idea if you plan on doing hardcore 3d polygon selection :)

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SPX (to Daz)
#813 Posted by than [62.64.191.122], 05/04/2001 22:16 GMT
since the hipnotic rotate entities are so gay, why don't you change the code of them for SPX so they are easier to implement and don't require so much other crap to get them to work right? Twould be very nice :)

-than

[Reply]


Tronyn...
#814 Posted by Edgecrusher [63.22.128.237], 05/04/2001 23:12 GMT , Refers to Post #802
i'll try to compile your maps if you e-mail them to me. No promises on whether i could complie them though, i don't know how long it would take on my computer.

[Reply]


Biff & Fern
#815 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 06/04/2001 00:00 GMT
Biff: For me it happens everywhere, not just with overlapping brushes

Fern: I use 3-d solid textured mode of course Smile

But darn, seems like I'm the only one having this problem then :(

[Reply]


You Are Not Alone...
#816 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.8], 06/04/2001 02:17 GMT , Refers to Post #815
happens to me when the brush count for the level exceeds 1500. My sys looks like a pocket calculator wrt yours so as you can imagine I've got round the problem by developing vast resources of patience.

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Sounds Goof Than
#817 Posted by DaZ [213.1.140.114], 06/04/2001 02:33 GMT , Refers to Post #813
Those nitpotyic entities are gh3y in the xtreme...

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Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#818 Posted by Speedy [194.105.199.228], 06/04/2001 05:24 GMT
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Rotating Stuff
#819 Posted by arbo [155.101.79.49], 06/04/2001 06:04 GMT
Anybody know a good way to rotate objects like crates and stuff easier? i am getting agitated spending 5 minutes rotating and realigning brush faces, just to have a crate or block sitting at an angle. any suggestions would be highly appreciated.. i use worldcraft 1.6, btw

[Reply]


Arbo
#820 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.207], 06/04/2001 09:11 GMT , Refers to Post #819
As far as I know, that's what you've gotta do -- typically you have to rescale the tex, too. It can be a bitch, but it looks cool -- and that's what it's all about (hokey "thumbs up").

[Reply]


Rotating
#821 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 06/04/2001 11:47 GMT , Refers to Post #819
I wouldn't use rotate apart from for 90deg turns. Brushes tend to go off the grid if you use odd angles. Make the brush bigger than you want & then clip its sides to be paralell at the angle you want. You will still need to mess with the texture scale/alignment however.

[Reply]


Grahf Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#822 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.212], 06/04/2001 14:10 GMT
In some editors (radiant especially), you can lock the texture for moves and rotations. It will look great, however sometimes the texture alignment will get totally fux0red and use junk values.

Aligning textures on an object that will rotate ingame is probably even tougher though. ;)

[Reply]


Hanz:
#823 Posted by CZG [195.204.54.170], 06/04/2001 18:21 GMT
Try turning the 3D acceleration in WC off. I wouldn't trust that thing with a shotgun to my head. Not that I'd trust anyone with a shotgun to my head, but you get the idea.

And any serious improvement to the hiprots would be difficult to do. The main thing you'd want to get rid of are the func_movewalls, which would require engine hax0ring, the texture alignment problems which would require compiler hax0ring, and the general setup of the stuff, which... hell! That stuff ain't worth fixing! Only way to do it better would be with origin brushes, but that requires compiler/engine Hax0ring too.
Come to think of it, you could specify the origin of the object with a vector from some secret location that you can figure out, like the trains sorta do...
Whatevah'

[Reply]


Cutting Into Water
#824 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.72], 07/04/2001 08:29 GMT
I have a pool of water and a square brush cut out of the middle.

How do i stop the lines appearing where the water brushes touch each other?

[Reply]


Czg, That's Very Slow...
#825 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 07/04/2001 08:52 GMT
but it works. Even though I have athlon 700, the software view is incredibly slow. Maybe I should switch to 640x480 resolution when editing :D

[Reply]


Q3 Water
#826 Posted by GlassMan [62.7.249.6], 07/04/2001 09:05 GMT , Refers to Post #824
a) Are you sure you need to cut a square out of the middle? Don't cut a square just to accomodate another brush..have them overlap.

b) If you do put the nodraw texture on the touching sides

[Reply]


I Think
#827 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.56], 07/04/2001 09:06 GMT , Refers to Post #824
You'd need to get your water tex all aligned to the same points (0, 0 -- mebbe).

[Reply]


Damn Q1 Mappers!
#828 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.24.236], 07/04/2001 09:10 GMT , Refers to Post #824
Can't answer an easy Q3 question =)

Just use the nodraw texure on the sides that touch another water brush (on both brushes). There, easy.

[Reply]


Damned Q3 Mapper!
#829 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.191], 07/04/2001 09:54 GMT , Refers to Post #828
When will you realize that fad is over?

[Reply]


GRRRRREEAAT
#830 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.71], 07/04/2001 12:26 GMT
Thanx guys! superb response. I love this place:-)
saves me combing through all those tuts.

[Reply]


Rotating Brushes...
#831 Posted by necros [172.130.240.69], 07/04/2001 18:55 GMT
ok, ok, i'm sure you've all heard it before, but here it is again.

How the hell do you get Rotating Brushes to display properly in the game?

I have the progs.dat file,

i use TXQBSP.exe v0.6,
rvis.exe and arghlite.exe v2.0 to compile, and yet, when ever the brushes rotate, the flicker between visible and invisible.
What the hell am i doing wrong??? >=O

[Reply]


Erng
#832 Posted by CZG [195.204.54.181], 07/04/2001 19:05 GMT
Basicly all could be wrong. The compilers might be fucking up, you might not have the latest version of the exe, your vis has gone awry some way, lots of stuff to annoy you with. Just try switching various things you do and see if anything causes any improvements.
That's the best advice I can give you.

[Reply]


!error Message!
#833 Posted by mute [193.180.245.90], 07/04/2001 22:07 GMT
ive built a q1 map and it compilse without problems[bsp/light/vis] but when i try too run it in quake, quake crashes.
When i try too run it in qwsv i can see it writing out an error message before qwsv crashes but im unable too read the error message because the window closes as qwsc crashes....
Anyone know of a trick too get at this error message so i can do anything about it?
Has anyone ever had the same problem and therefore know of a possible reason for this?
All help greatly appreciated.
/mute

[Reply]


I Will Be Mute
#834 Posted by CZG [195.204.54.65], 08/04/2001 06:32 GMT , Refers to Post #833
I'm not sure, but isn't there an option in the properties for the program/batchfile/shortcut you're running to not close the window when done? Try disabeling/enabeling that and see how it goes.

[Reply]


Error Msg
#835 Posted by Mr Fribbles [61.9.192.142], 08/04/2001 06:49 GMT
quake.exe -condebug

(or whatever you're using, you can do it on qwsv or qwcl too)

dumps the output of the console to qconsole.log file, which you can open in a text editor and read.

[Reply]


What I Know
#836 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.201], 08/04/2001 09:45 GMT , Refers to Post #831
1. You MUST ALWAYS compile the whole level, even for the piddliest of changes, otherwise your rotating gongleheimers spin around the origin.

2. If the center of rotation for the thing isn't dead center of the rotate_object entity, it'll rattle and flicker. Found that out the hard way.

3. Make sure your BSP and light programs handle rotating stuff. Some don't. (Again, found this out the hard way. It's quite a sight to see a pair of door slowly rotate into invisibility!)

[Reply]


See Thru Skybox
#837 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 08/04/2001 10:44 GMT
I have part of a map that is surrounded by a sky box, but when playing i can see another part of the map through the skybox (the skybox texture disapears and only re-apears when i move close to it).
What can i do to fix this anoying bug?

[Reply]


Vising.
#838 Posted by CZG [195.204.54.40], 08/04/2001 11:23 GMT
I duno about Q3, but from what I remember of Q2, skyboxes are drawn behind everything else so that if the vis can see another part of your level through a skybox, that will be drawn on top of it. Block out your vis so that that particular area isn't visible from the area with the skybox, and it should go away.

[Reply]


Grahf Is Still Working On A Title
#839 Posted by Grahf [199.106.218.6], 08/04/2001 12:48 GMT
Wow, lotta new faces around here...

[Reply]


Well
#840 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.122.70], 08/04/2001 12:54 GMT , Refers to Post #839
That has gotta be a good thing

[Reply]


Thanks For The Help, Now What?
#841 Posted by mute [193.180.245.90], 08/04/2001 13:56 GMT
After CZG's and Mr Fribbles kind words, qwsv finally talked too me. Too little RAM it said. Try heapsize 16000 was its kind reply.
Only problem was i was already running at -heapsize 24000 so i upped it to -heapsize 64000 and voilá! a mere 8 minutes later, qwsv finally loaded the map telling me the REAL problem this time...
Average leafs visible/hearable/total : 8361/8361/8362
Oi!
This is (at least for me..) an unheard of amount, even for a big map. Any way, other than a complete rebuild, too get this down to an acceptable level? The map is an unsolicited conversion of a q2 Ctf classic and as you might guess pretty large.
As always, any help whatsoever is greatly appreciated.
/mute

[Reply]


Hmmm
#842 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.122.70], 08/04/2001 14:13 GMT , Refers to Post #841
You did VIS it didn't you?

[Reply]


Well Doh!
#843 Posted by mute [193.180.245.90], 08/04/2001 14:29 GMT
could a moderator please destroy my post #841
so that people wont have too read it?
Of course its never run vis cuz it didnt find a .prt file.
Thanx GrindSpire for being so civil about this.
Big excuses.Sorry.Sad

[Reply]


No .prt File...
#844 Posted by DaZ [213.1.63.55], 08/04/2001 14:59 GMT
Means the map has a leak in it...

Load up the map and type "pointfile" into the console then look around the map, you should see a lot of white and black particles in lines *somewhere*, follow this line and it will show you where there is a gap in the level...

Pop back into WC (or whatever you use) and fix it Smile

[Reply]


Mute
#845 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 08/04/2001 16:40 GMT
was that a limerick? :)

[Reply]


HELP!!!!
#846 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.68], 08/04/2001 16:47 GMT , Refers to Post #837
I can still see thru my skybox i tried putting hint brushes between and area portals,

this is starting to suck:(

[Reply]


You May Just Have To Rebuild It.
#847 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.112], 08/04/2001 18:15 GMT , Refers to Post #846
Or at least redesign that area in a pretty drastic way. I fought this problem at one point on my current map, even going so far as to try multiple layers of caulk wall with void in between them between the two sections of sky/map, and the sky was still see-through. I suspect this is just a limitation of the engine--sky will be able to see through to sky, period. I finally just resorted to a big stone wall to replace the bit of sky that wasn't being cooperative.

(If someone has another solution to this problem, I'd love to hear it.)

[Reply]


Oh Well
#848 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 08/04/2001 18:23 GMT , Refers to Post #846
Thanks anyway...

[Reply]


Seeing Rooms In The Sky...
#849 Posted by metlslime [140.142.169.130], 08/04/2001 18:51 GMT
this is just the way the engine works. it draws the sky, then all polygons in the PVS, back to front. So if that other room is in the PVS, it will get drawn on top of the sky.

Of course, if there's a room up there, doesn't that mean that if the player looks up, he should see the outside of the structure which contains the room? Building spacially coherent maps is probably the real solution to this error.

[Reply]


Radiant Wont Launch
#850 Posted by steve [213.1.63.234], 08/04/2001 20:56 GMT
hi all,

i've decided to get into mapping but my career has not even got off the ground yet.

i've downloaded radiant 201, 202, and gtk, but none of them want to even launch on my system.

i get two error messages (not at once, they seem to take it in turns):

1) 3dfxogl.dll error
2) radiant.exe error

i have tried:

1) removing glsetup altogether
2) trying different drivers for my graphics card (voodoo 5500)

i've been on this now for three days leaving messages on boarsd all over, but no joy yet. here's hoping...

[Reply]


Hehe
#851 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.214], 08/04/2001 22:01 GMT , Refers to Post #845
I think it was haiku...

[Reply]


Steve
#852 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.214], 08/04/2001 22:06 GMT , Refers to Post #850
Screw Radiant, man. Get Worldcraft -- come away from the Dark Side ;P

[Reply]


--> -->
#853 Posted by mute [193.180.245.90], 08/04/2001 22:37 GMT , Refers to Post #851
I used quark this time, cuz it has a function
That editor check verifies my presumption
there are no holes.
nor cracks sized like poles
but my map still reeks of corruption

existant holes fixed
creating pointfile even though
containing nothing

i open my inner eye too see
searching the web with a cup of tea
squeeking like a frog
i found a little prog
that makes dot-prt out of bsp

rvis, admitting file
slowly, processor grinding teeth
time moving slow
/mute Wink

[Reply]


That Was Beautiful, Mute
#854 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.64], 09/04/2001 00:25 GMT , Refers to Post #853
/me feels like the inside of a freshly-baked "special" brownie

[Reply]


He He...
#855 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.8], 09/04/2001 01:25 GMT , Refers to Post #853
Mute & ~mute

cute.

[Reply]


Leak Finding Can Be Brutal, Mute
#856 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.127], 09/04/2001 04:03 GMT
I have a map sitting around, which, while I am 99% positive it has no actual holes, and qbsp gives no leak error, it still runs a FillOutside and makes no prt. maybe I should try that bsp2prt thingy...

Nice poetry there... we need Quake haiku, not limericks!

[Reply]


Quake Dm Map
#857 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 09/04/2001 13:50 GMT
I have a quake dm map in a kind of 'alpha' state which, having little experience of dm mapping, I'm not sure if its worth the effort to finish.

If a couple of experienced quake dm players and/or mappers have the time to have a quick look at it please mail me.

Thank you.

[Reply]


Yeah
#858 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.37.15], 09/04/2001 15:36 GMT , Refers to Post #857
I'll have a look at it (I've emailed you as well btw).

[Reply]


Me Too
#859 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.27], 10/04/2001 03:55 GMT
I`ll test DM map

[Reply]


syon Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#860 Posted by syon [209.254.207.143], 10/04/2001 03:59 GMT
Get QEradiant.

[Reply]


Q3 Textures?
#861 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.226], 10/04/2001 21:06 GMT
Anyone knows what the glass texture is(texture pack)/name? The base_wall/glass01 is dark as hell (is hell dark?).

And yes, does anyone knows where the barrel texture is?

[Reply]


Is Hell Dark?
#862 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.209], 10/04/2001 22:30 GMT , Refers to Post #861
Yes, and it smells like ASS.

[Reply]


Episode Gates
#863 Posted by Quaketree [63.28.86.80], 10/04/2001 23:51 GMT
Ok, I give up. How do you get an Episode gate to appear? I tried the setting the e1 spawn flag to everything between 0 to 4 (I even tried setting it to e1) and nothing. I got the player 2 start point to work and I thought that the episode gate would appear but it doesent. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Reply]


Episode Gates
#864 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 11/04/2001 00:23 GMT
Episode gates only appear if you HAVE the runes, not if you DON'T have them. Thus you need the E1 rune for the E1 gate to appear, etc. I'm not sure what happens if you pick up the runes ingame in a level that has closed episodegates in it :)

[Reply]


Doh!!
#865 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 11/04/2001 00:27 GMT
I'm not sure what happens if you pick up the runes ingame in a level that has closed episodegates in it :)

nothing

[Reply]


Re: Kreator
#866 Posted by Deathmonger [62.37.163.112], 11/04/2001 05:24 GMT
In order to make a decent glass using that texture make a clip brush and then apply the glass texture to only one face.
If the glass is supposed to be seen from more than one side then make two brushes, so that no more than one glass texture is in the same brush. I had problems with this you mention a few months ago.

[Reply]


Q3 Glass
#867 Posted by GlassMan [62.7.249.6], 11/04/2001 05:55 GMT , Refers to Post #861
You need to put some pretty bright lights on both sides of the glass to get rid off the black.

I *think* the barrels are models for which the mdls didn't ship. You should find the texes somewhere just not in the regular tex directories. Try the models/mapobjects directory.

[Reply]


Clarification
#868 Posted by Quaketree [63.17.197.160], 11/04/2001 07:45 GMT
Ok, I wasn't clear enough. I thought the clue to y'all was that I got the player2 entity to work. Meaning I HAD the first rune in hand and and then I came back to the start map in the player2 position (as I should). But the episode gate was not present when I got to the start map the second time around with the first rune in hand. Confusing enough?

What I am asking is: What are the spawnflags (with the rune in hand) to make the episode gate(s) appear?

[Reply]


From The Source Itself...
#869 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.201], 11/04/2001 09:36 GMT , Refers to Post #868
/*QUAKED func_episodegate (0 .5 .8) ? E1 E2 E3 E4
This bmodel will appear if the episode has already been completed, so players can't reenter it.
*/


So the spawnflag values are 1 (E1), 2 (E2), 4 (E3) and 8 (E4) respectively.

[Reply]


The Dark Side
#870 Posted by Eggman [151.202.208.149], 11/04/2001 17:37 GMT
Unwillingly I must start to endure mapping for Counter-Strike. Is Worldcraft my only option? I love Radiant and would much rather use this. Is this a possibility? If not where can I d/l everything necessary for Worldcraft/CS mapping?

[Reply]


Rustle!!!! Gooii! Hiss!!!!!!!
#871 Posted by CZG [195.204.46.4], 11/04/2001 17:44 GMT , Refers to Post #870
though, WC would be your salvation I guess.

[Reply]


Here:
#872 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.22.95], 11/04/2001 17:45 GMT , Refers to Post #870
Half Life plugin for QERadiant

And why do you HAVE to start to map for Counter-Strike?

[Reply]


This Should Be Funny
#873 Posted by Eggman [151.202.208.149], 11/04/2001 17:47 GMT
A company I'm going to start contracting for is going to have a CS-esque gameplay mode in their game. So I have to explore the gametype.

snip...

You can stop laughing now.

[Reply]


&$%# Editor
#874 Posted by Quaketree [63.23.15.49], 11/04/2001 18:51 GMT
Ok, thanks and sorry to bother all who gave me info on episode gates (I already knew what you all were telling me was correct). It turns out that the editor I was using did not know how to assign the spawnflags for the func_episodegate. ie: in the .map file it was...

"e1" "1"

instead of "spawnflags" "1"

/me gotta learn to use WC instead of WQ

(stop laughing ok, it's just easier for my little brain to use that one instead of WC).

Anyway thanks for your time and we now return to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Reply]


Tyrlight Anyone?
#875 Posted by necros [172.162.71.104], 11/04/2001 22:25 GMT
Anyone know where i can get the latest version of Tyrlight?

[Reply]


Good.
#876 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.99], 11/04/2001 22:31 GMT , Refers to Post #862
How would you know? Been there? I always wanted to go somewhere. Maybe I'll just go there then. Warm and cosy.

[Reply]


Thx.
#877 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.99], 11/04/2001 22:32 GMT , Refers to Post #866
Ok, thanks. I'll try that.

[Reply]


UTSP?
#878 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.31], 11/04/2001 23:02 GMT
Is there any way to get a map to fire up in UT without the damned bots showing up and shooting you to pieces? I thought since I didn't have any waypoints or what have you in it, I'd be able to poke around in relative solace -- but NO.

Btw, I'm really impressed with all you can do with UED2 -- port in any music, sound effects, whatever -- it's potentially kickass stuff.

[Reply]


But...
#879 Posted by DaZ [213.122.215.204], 11/04/2001 23:30 GMT
have you actually tried mapping in it? Smile the fun ends there... :/

[Reply]


Aww
#880 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.48], 12/04/2001 00:12 GMT , Refers to Post #879
It ain't that bad, Daz -- once you get used to the 2d editor, and extruding stuff to your map from it. I mean hell, carving out an area in one click as opposed to slapping together 4 to 6 brushes? It does have some good points...

[Reply]


Yeah, It's Got Some Serious Advantages
#881 Posted by kanaeda [64.193.4.77], 12/04/2001 00:22 GMT , Refers to Post #880
Ued2 is a huge improvement over the original editor. much more stable, speedier, less resource intensive.

as for the editing side... subtractive based level design is *not* the devil, nor is it the greatest tool around. both quake-ish and unreal level design have their own sets of ups and downs. it's a trade-off no matter what you do. at this point, i'm pretty confident that there will never be a perfect engine/editor to work with. In the meantime, i'm really pleased with what's available from both of the major engine developers.

[Reply]


Necros
#882 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 12/04/2001 01:29 GMT , Refers to Post #875
<A href="http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann">www.planetquake.com/tyrann

[Reply]


#882
#883 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 12/04/2001 01:29 GMT
Q M A P F A G G ' D

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#884 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.51], 12/04/2001 03:14 GMT
Peej, make qmap auto replace borked link code with Q M A P F A G G ' D ;)

[Reply]


Speedy...
#885 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.30], 12/04/2001 09:21 GMT , Refers to Post #884
Do you live in that town where the barber cuts the hair of everyone who doesn't cut his own hair?

The whole reason it's borked is that qmap doesnt recognize it as link code!

Yay!

[Reply]


Well
#886 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.25.253], 12/04/2001 10:12 GMT , Refers to Post #878
There is one of the sections when starting a game that contains the number of bots to add as well as bot skill and stuff...

[Reply]


Cs Mapping Again
#887 Posted by Eggman [151.202.207.71], 12/04/2001 22:40 GMT
Do I have to have the Half-Life dll in the plugin directory of qeradiant and a halflife directory in my qeradiant directory to map for cs? Can't I just have the cs entities def file and be able to map for cs, without the Half-Life plugin itself?

[Reply]


*glurp*
#888 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.187], 13/04/2001 00:01 GMT
Anybody know where I can find a decent tut on how to make water sheets in UED2? The Unrealed.exe tut gives the step by step, but I dunno if it works the same with UED2, seeing as how I can't get it to work. If someone knows how to do it, PLEASE post or mail me, since this is DRIVING ME INSANE!

[Reply]


Biff
#889 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.80], 13/04/2001 03:26 GMT
Only thing I could recommend is to comb PlanetUnreal for UED2-specific tuts, I know there are some out there.

Interesting to know that you're making Unreal engine stuff. I'd be interested to see if you make anything cool.

[Reply]


Random Question:
#890 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.80], 13/04/2001 03:28 GMT
Should the Rune textures be shrunk by 1/2 to look the best in Quake? i.e, are they too big as is?

[Reply]


DK Texsets
#891 Posted by BlackPope [209.52.215.9], 13/04/2001 05:19 GMT
Anyone have the DK textures converted to Q
by each episode?? I know grindspire originally posted them but I also inquired about them and he said he doesn't anymore...

Basicaly I need them because I had a map nearly completed and now I don't have the textures to finish it!
so If anyone has them either reply to this msg or email me pls
Flamertl@axion.net

[Reply]


I Call It "Autoplay" ;P
#892 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.31], 13/04/2001 09:19 GMT , Refers to Post #889
It is looking pretty good so far -- ideally it'll be a 1v1 map, given it's size (tiny). I'm using the "decayed" tex set -- which looks excellent -- and once I get the whole thing lit, it should look even better.

[Reply]


You Need The Plugin
#893 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.52.82], 13/04/2001 11:32 GMT , Refers to Post #887
In order to use the Counter-Strike/Half-Life textures...

[Reply]


Advice On Gui Compiler
#894 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 13/04/2001 21:28 GMT
1.Is Q3build worth getting?
2.does it speed up the compile process?
3.Is there any compiler that doesn't take 15 hours on a fulvis?

[Reply]


Hmmm
#895 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.117.19], 13/04/2001 21:32 GMT , Refers to Post #894
1) I don't think so, I use Radiant's menu for mid-work compiles and a batch file for major compiles (betas, final).

2) It's better than compiling Radaint in terms of speed (based on having just rebooted =), but a batch file is still better.

3) Nope, speeding up VIS is down to do optimising in the map.

[Reply]


Thanx
#896 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 13/04/2001 21:36 GMT
That was quick.

batch file ....explain how please

[Reply]


Hmmmm
#897 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 13/04/2001 21:40 GMT
maybe i have had too much to drink, oh well back to work, my WFA map has to be in by monday otherwise its wrists slapped for creamy:)

[Reply]


What's Taking The Time?
#898 Posted by pjw [198.211.36.117], 13/04/2001 21:56 GMT , Refers to Post #897
If it's lighting, there's not necessarily a lot you can do about it. If vis is taking any significant percentage of that, then have you gone through and "detailed" (Crtl-M) any non-vis-blocking brushes? It's amazing how much this will reduce your vis time.

[Reply]


Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#899 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.5], 14/04/2001 01:45 GMT
link for util that can do
hl wad/bsp to pcx/any normal grfx format ?
(losless)

[Reply]


Feh
#900 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.183], 14/04/2001 10:56 GMT
Okay -- turns out imp1sp2's gotta "leak that isn't a leak", or in other words, a BSP glitch. Tried running Alverson's QBSP on it, and it kept listing "Checkface: Point off plane". What does this mean?

[Reply]


Networked Version?
#901 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 14/04/2001 16:02 GMT
I am using Gtkradiant, q3map, i have just done a fullvis and just as it finished i got a message come up saying something about connection timed out make sure you have a networked version of q3map and your map has not compiled.

What is this and what does it mean?

(it is the lighting that is taking so much time on the compile)

[Reply]


Feh (Part II)
#902 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.189], 14/04/2001 21:52 GMT
What's that q1 console/config command for extra particles (for a pointfile)? I've tried "particles" and "max particles", but they no work.

No matter what I do, the "leak" only shows up in a part of the map that had never leaked before, but it may lead somewhere else, if given enough juice...

[Reply]


Please Help
#903 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.65], 14/04/2001 22:29 GMT , Refers to Post #901
any1 there hello? this networked thingy is doin my nut in.
please help

[Reply]


Biff
#904 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.66], 14/04/2001 22:45 GMT
run your executable of choice with -particles hugeassnumberwithlotsofzeros

[Reply]


Nope
#905 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.189], 14/04/2001 23:07 GMT , Refers to Post #904
That doesn't work, either. Thanks though, Ray.

[Reply]


Uhm Yeah It Does
#906 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.66], 14/04/2001 23:24 GMT
ripped directly from frib's glquake/qw guide.

-particles
This is a command that I have not seen mentioned in any glquake tweak guide, which is unfortunate given how useful it is. Use this command to specify the maximum number of particles to be rendered on screen at once. By 'particles' I'm referring to stuff like rocket trails, blood, the teleport effect, etc. I highly recommend that you use -particles 0 for glquake. Despite the zero, this will not eliminate all particles, which is a good thing... I still want to see the rocket trails and other effects. What it will do is set the maximum number of particles to the lowest possible value (presumably). This won't make a difference in many cases, however in big games, when there is a lot of shit going own, glquake will reduce the amount of particles being rendered, and these big games are precisely when you need that extra performance the most. This is a significant performance boost, for example on my system, a timedemo bigass1 will be literally 10 FPS faster using -particles 0. A nice performance gain with very little real difference in visual effects.

Example: glquake -particles 0

[Reply]


Uhm No It Doesn't
#907 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.189], 15/04/2001 00:08 GMT , Refers to Post #906
I'm using software Quake only now -- I don't even have GLQuake on my HD.

[Reply]


Creamage
#908 Posted by Lunaran [64.12.105.41], 15/04/2001 02:48 GMT
you aren't trying to run q3map with -threads are you? That uses multiple processors on a network. That's the only thing in q3map related to networking, so if that's not it you must have some bad mojo going on.

Moon

[Reply]


Well Biff.
#909 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.66], 15/04/2001 04:09 GMT
i dunno then. its worked for me in winquake and glquake.
<shrug>

[Reply]


Engine Woes
#910 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 15/04/2001 06:04 GMT
anyone who can figure these out is a genius. an answer to either one would solve my problems:

1) when fullbrights are on in TomazQuake, there are several fullbrights which simply don't show up and get lit like normal textures. They show up as fullbright in Software, GLQuake, QF, the works, just not in TQ

2) When I start QuakeForge after TomazQuake, I get a white void and little white dots all over the map. yuck. rebooting fixes it until I run TQ again.

if any custom-engine-savvy people know what might be up, please respond, thanks. The faster I can test compiles of perssp3, the faster I'll finish it ;)
~Fern

[Reply]


Weird
#911 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 15/04/2001 06:47 GMT
when I view a VISed map in QF, all problems disappear... it would still be nice to get the proper fullbrights in TQ though since that's actually a NQ engine :)

[Reply]


R-speeds
#912 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.71], 15/04/2001 17:14 GMT
What is a good r-speed value to aim at?

[Reply]


Biff Compile It With Wqbsp
#913 Posted by Mr Fribbles [61.9.192.142], 15/04/2001 17:23 GMT , Refers to Post #902
wQBSP...

- Supports "-leakspace #" option, which allows you to control the spacing of the leak trail particles. 2 is the default, if you want to make the close together you would put in a small number, say 0.5, if you want them more spread out you would put in a larger number, say 4. Do not put in negative numbers or 0!

The particles command has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Reply]


Hmm
#914 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.5.250], 15/04/2001 17:27 GMT , Refers to Post #913
Since I assume you are mapping for Q3...

About 8000 to 10000 tris

[Reply]


At Last!
#915 Posted by Biff the Relieved [205.188.198.46], 16/04/2001 00:27 GMT , Refers to Post #913
Thanks Frib! I was getting ready to plunge into my new map (see Screenshot Thread), but I guess I'll go back to working on imp1sp2 now.

[Reply]


*AHHH*
#916 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.27], 16/04/2001 14:08 GMT
Tirns out, it wasn't a leak -- it was simply the way I was putting brushes together for a curved surface.

Yeah, I'd seen CZG's tut (I've got it in me WC folder), but was too lazy to redo what I'd already built. Needless to say, I'm not being lazy anymore...

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Attribute
#917 Posted by sorrow[T7S] [24.95.16.176], 17/04/2001 15:52 GMT
What is the climb attribute in Q3 and how do I get to it...like if I want a ladder or something.
thanks guys!

sorrow

[Reply]


Sorry
#918 Posted by Eggman [162.83.135.148], 17/04/2001 16:32 GMT , Refers to Post #917
Q3A does not have ladders. I suggest making clip brushes stacked and 1 unit apart to create stairs that will have a similar effect.

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Pick One...
#919 Posted by Quaketree [63.23.7.149], 21/04/2001 00:20 GMT
Ok, let's just suppose that I wanted to make a Black and White Quake level (color-wise, not as in the new game). I can convert textures into grey scale with a program like Paintshop Pro and use Wally or TexMex to extract and place them into a wad. Which export format from the .wad (.tga .bmp ect) will ( in your opinion) retain the crispest texture details when re-inserted into a .wad?

But of course now the monsters, ammo boxes ect. will be in color while the map itself is b&w.

What software tool(s) would I need to use to change the models skins into b&w?

how can I change the textures for ammo ect. that are in the .bsp's in the progs folder in the pak file without having to make my own new .bsp?

I am guessing that I will need to extract the .bsp from the .pak, then extract the textures from that .bsp, then convert the textures into b&w. I think I can get that far, but how do I re-insert (and replace) the new textures into the old .bsp?

I know that I saw somewhere on a web site (a long time ago) a tool that would swap the textures within a .bsp. But "gosh darn it" if I can remember where.

As far as the model's and their skin's go, I have never touched them and I have no idea as to even where I should begin.

Just pointers as to where I can "get" the manual would be good for every one that may be thinking RTFM.

Thank you for your time.

/me hunkers back down into the shadows...

[Reply]


Wow
#920 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.159], 21/04/2001 00:46 GMT , Refers to Post #919
This is like the third time this very question has been brought up recently (B&W Quake), and I believe the solution (someone said) was to simply alter the palette file -- this should allow everything to be greyscale. It'd have to be a seperate pak, far away from your normal Quake stuff, for sure.

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QuakeTree
#921 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 21/04/2001 01:06 GMT
I had originally planned to do a black and white mission/episode with some lighting modifications and an indiana jones sort of archaeological theme, but that never happened. It's fairly easy to make everything black and white. All you need to do is modify the palette.lmp file. to do this in PSP, you can load a Quake screenshot (PCX) colorize it with a saturation of 0%, reduce it to 256 colors (don't remember if this is necessary) and save the palette. Not sure how to get it back in LMP format though. I think mickey did that.

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A Tip
#922 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.159], 21/04/2001 01:09 GMT , Refers to Post #921
If you ever want to convert to 256 colors, just re-save the file as a GIF. This works even better than PSPs conversions, for some reason.

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Uh, Biff
#923 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 21/04/2001 04:07 GMT
If you ever want to convert to 256 colors, just re-save the file as a GIF. This works even better than PSPs conversions, for some reason. That's because PSP reduces the image to 256 colors, saves the GIF, and continues to display the original 256+ color image with no visible change. You never see what you saved unless you open it again :)

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Well, Those Bastards!
#924 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.198], 21/04/2001 10:08 GMT , Refers to Post #923
It's all part of their plan, you know...

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BwQ
#925 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.49], 22/04/2001 00:57 GMT
would fucking rock!

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And!
#926 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.11], 22/04/2001 09:33 GMT
not only must you modify the palette.lmp, you must also modify colormap.lmp, since you want to support software mode. And you DO want to support software mode, right?

I think i said this last time the question came up too. There ought to be a B&W Quake FAQ.

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Umm..
#927 Posted by Quaketree [63.22.254.129], 22/04/2001 09:50 GMT
Ok, so if I change the pallet.lmp and the colormap.lmp in the .pak then "ANY" Quake level would be B&W all the way through including, say for example, the original id level's?
I had already converted some tex's to b&w, and to be honest they looked like total crap in software Quake (more blue and grey than black and white) but with arghlite and some creative lighting they looked pretty good (and just about what I was looking for) in GLQuake.

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Yes
#928 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.77.196], 22/04/2001 09:57 GMT , Refers to Post #927
That is correct

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Metl
#929 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 22/04/2001 15:17 GMT
errrrrrrr I was playing entirely in software mode at the time and modifying only palette.lmp worked fine for me. what the heck is colormap ?

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Well
#930 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.77.196], 22/04/2001 15:54 GMT , Refers to Post #929
That'd be the GL equivalent =)

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.lmp Files
#931 Posted by Quaketree [63.22.254.169], 22/04/2001 19:04 GMT
I extracted them and, what opens /converts them into something I can mess with? (psp don't do it:/)and as long as I am asking, what about changing them back into a.lmp when I am done.

thank you for your time.

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Lmp Files
#932 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 22/04/2001 19:38 GMT
I already described the method for creating a black and white palette above. If you want to know how to save it as an lmp.... /me runs

[Reply]


Fern...
#933 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.107], 22/04/2001 23:05 GMT , Refers to Post #929
colormap.lmp is a lookup table that shows what each palette color should look like under each light level. I have no way to explain why your quake.exe didn't use it; to my best understanding that is what software mode uses to draw every pixel.

Hmm, perhaps colormap.lmp is 8-bit indexed, and therefore when you change the palette.lmp, colormap.lmp automatically takes on the new palette. That must be it.

So i guess you can leave colormap.lmp alone.

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Hehe
#934 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 23/04/2001 00:35 GMT
I can remember a while back when I tried messing around with quake to give it the quake 2 so that I could use q2 textures without repallating them...I ended up with psychadelic fluro cloured quake no matter what I did so in the end I just gave up. 8)

Tron

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#935 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.70], 23/04/2001 03:21 GMT
It must be possible, I mean Hexen II uses an alternate color palette...

Your best bet for editing all that crazy shit may well be id's original qutils; just get the source and compile, eh?

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B&w Pallet
#936 Posted by Quaketree [63.22.254.212], 23/04/2001 18:38 GMT
Ok, I found a program (rgb v1.1 from the chopshop on PQ) that allows me to change any color in the pallet (and colormap as well). I changed the pallet into 16 shades from 0 to 255 in increments of 16, I extracted my original pallet and colormap from pak0.pak and replaced them with the new ones that I just made.

The good news is... it did make everything black and white, the bad news is that some of the textures are pertty good looking, some are really really bad and most are somewhere in between.

While this is definitely a novelty look it was not quite what I was interested in doing.
As per my above post, I was more interested in extracting skins and such from the pak's, turning them into greyscale and re-inserting them into the paks. Then making my own maps with black and white textures. I just am not too sure about re-distributing any propriatary stuff of id's (I would not change the rest of the .mdl but I think I will need to place the entire .mdl in a .pak even though it is just the skin that changed)

If anyone is interested in seeing quake in 16 color B&W I can e-mail you the pallet.lmp and colormap.lmp I made to see what I am talking about.

[Reply]


Why Don't You...
#937 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 24/04/2001 05:33 GMT
make the pallate into 256 different shades of grey with the brightness of the gray depending on the brightness of the original colour? I'd think that would make everything look as though it had been converted to greyscale properly...

Tron

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Woo Hoo!
#938 Posted by Quaketree [63.28.86.147], 24/04/2001 07:46 GMT
Ok, I *Think* I got it sorted out: I found that program I saw before that will swap textures in a .bsp. So I extracted the textures from each the .bsp's in episode one (each episode into it's own wad). Then I did a simple greyscale conversion in psp 7.2 on each one and saved them and then put them into a new wad (again separated by episode).

Then I ran the proggie to swap the textures in the E1M1.bsp and BOOM. The levels were in B&W but the models were still in color. So I d\led QMe Lite and used it on the simpler models (Gib's, flames and others that were less than 20 frames) extracted those textures and did the same greyscale thing. Put those back in and *BOOM* even more B&W goodness. So now I guess I gotta get QMe (full version) to get the models with more than 20 frames into B&W. And then I should be about done making Quake B&W.

Now the question. What (if anything) do you all think I can give to people to check it out when I am done? I mean I suppose anyone with Quake could do it on their own if they had the tools and about 10 or 12 hours (or so). Most (but not all) of the models were in the SW release of Quake. It would be fairly ok I think to just put out the converted textures. I would not need to put out the sounds or other non-visual stuff (.dat ect). Maybe just put out the SW version in B&W?

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B&w Quake
#939 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 24/04/2001 10:15 GMT , Refers to Post #938
All u really need to do is change the palette, but u need to do it as Tron suggested. Infact I still have a working black & white palette from whoever it was that did it before (sorry I don't remember who it was and am to lazy to read all old posts in this thread to find out).

Quaketree: If u want it I can send it to u, it really is much smoother way of doing it than changing all textures and skins.

[Reply]


256 Colors...
#940 Posted by Fern [141.222.155.64], 24/04/2001 12:41 GMT
make the pallate into 256 different shades of grey with the brightness of the gray depending on the brightness of the original colour? I'd think that would make everything look as though it had been converted to greyscale properly...

I've suggested that at least twice. That's what would be generated with my method. No one ever told me what was wrong with it though Neutral

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Pallette
#941 Posted by Eggman [162.83.134.164], 24/04/2001 13:19 GMT
Doesn't quake have a certain amount of colors that are static? I think the amount of colors you can actually pick is somewhere around 240 or something. Either that or I am clueless

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Well...
#942 Posted by Quaketree [63.23.7.54], 24/04/2001 19:22 GMT
When I did the 16 shades of grey pallet I got a colormap that had shades of grey, black and white strewn about higgly-piggly (is that a word) in no apparent order.

While I suppose if I spent enough time I could get the right shade of grey in the correct place on the pallet, but that would be a lot of trial and error and I'm not even sure if it would work equally on all maps (IMO). Plus in GL greys look different than in SW and in order for it to look well in both, the last method I mentioned semed to be the best compromise. Finally, if you were doing DM or COOP, and you changed the pallet, you would not really see any diffrence in the players unless you stopped and looked (which is a bad idea :( ).

But anyway, thank's for all of your input, I definitely learned much more about how Quake handles colors than I ever really thought I would. I'll probably keep dicking with it but I will stop pestering you guy's about it unless I really get stuck again.

[Reply]


Errrrrr
#943 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 24/04/2001 20:51 GMT , Refers to Post #942
didn't you notice that I offered to send you a working bw palette for quake? Even though you might decide not to use it, it's probably still work checking out.

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How Hard Can You Make This? Use ...
#944 Posted by metlslime [140.142.169.121], 25/04/2001 05:03 GMT
..the palette, Luke. Search your pants: you know it to be true.

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Hmm, No Title
#945 Posted by Kell [62.7.249.6], 25/04/2001 16:20 GMT
Yeah, the palette, man...
I made a quake_gray.pal last night in Paint Shop Pro; it took about 8 seconds and I click slowly.

Use the palette and your journey towards the grayscale will be complete.

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Mdl Resource
#946 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 27/04/2001 14:15 GMT
Custents' func_model entity allows the placing of any mdl model (still or animated) in a quake map. It works like the q3 equivalent - you just supply the path & model name & your model is there looking pretty.

Unfortuntely, unlike q3 there seems to be a dearth of such models available on the net. I dont mean player or monster models but things like lights & wall decorations & other fancy stuff like you get in q3.

So, does anyone know of any resources available where mdl files can be downloaded?

[Reply]


Hmm
#947 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.189], 27/04/2001 15:31 GMT , Refers to Post #946
That'd be a great addition to SPX (the func_model thing). I wonder if DaZ has it included or on his to-do list...?

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Biff:
#948 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.88], 27/04/2001 17:11 GMT
AFAIK, yes. There will also be a feature for ambient sounds, as well.

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Yep
#949 Posted by DaZ [213.1.94.65], 27/04/2001 17:12 GMT , Refers to Post #947
Its definately on the to-do list. if everything goes to plan it will be very tweakable as well...

[Reply]


Awrite!
#950 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.31], 27/04/2001 18:47 GMT
Definitely gotta do a map pack for this thing. Even if they're cheesy "showcase" maps to illustrate cetain features of the mod -- altho I'd hope it wouldn't come to that.

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HELP! WORLDCRAFT USERS READ ON...
#951 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.39], 27/04/2001 20:19 GMT
Right. I'm quite new to this editor, and am experiencing the most IRRITATING bug ever, which is wasting me great time:

When doing Vertex Manipulation, I click and drag all the individual points about to shape the brush how I want, as per usual. The problem is, if I accidentally mis-click the mouse, and click on part of the screen which isn't a vertex, (while still in VM mode) the editor starts drawing a box, and I can no longer move any of the vertices. I've tried exiting VM mode and entering it again, but the stupod box just reappears, and my brush is stuck the way it is. The only solution I can find is to save+exit the map, but if the unfinished brush is illegal, then the whole thing is screwednext time I open the file, and I have to start the whole thing again Frown

Does this happen to all? If not, how the hell can I prevent it?

Please help, thankyou.

[Reply]


Um...
#952 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.12.30], 27/04/2001 20:32 GMT , Refers to Post #951
You press Esc to get rid of the box...

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Phew
#953 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.39], 27/04/2001 20:57 GMT
Thanks Grindspire loads. I had no way of knowing that...

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Or
#954 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 27/04/2001 23:16 GMT
enter to select with the box...

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Yes
#955 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.92.45], 28/04/2001 02:33 GMT
perhaps the 'feature' (i guess) that is most annoying to me, regarding worldcraft

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Another Annoying Thing...
#956 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.135.132], 28/04/2001 15:38 GMT
How when you c'n'p a brush, the copy ends up in a random place on the screen, and i have to spend ages restoring it...

ALSO, how the grid keeps going psyco when doing VM...

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Bah
#957 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 28/04/2001 18:15 GMT
c'n'p: Just use the clonedrag instead. Hold shift and drag object to new location.

Grid: Jesus! How detailed are you being then? Doesn't that only happen at 100x zoom?

There are way more annoying things that will happen to you.

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Re: Vertex Box
#958 Posted by Quaketree [63.27.230.59], 28/04/2001 18:44 GMT
Just what in the hell does that blue box do anyway?

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#959 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 29/04/2001 02:18 GMT
You can use the vertec box to select vertices.

czg: you can shift-drag but that only works if the thing you want to stick into your map is in the same map file. If you've made two seperate things and want to combine them you'd better be ready for some tedious realignment action.

Tron

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Woah
#960 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.91.121], 29/04/2001 14:46 GMT
shift-drag? ..never new that existed. AND ALL THIS BLOODY TIME I'VE BEEN COPY AND PASTING


grr, tell me your ancient wc knowledge oh mr. czg

[Reply]


Yep
#961 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.147], 29/04/2001 16:26 GMT
I only found out recently too (before lthsp1 though obviously, or that would have been a real chore).

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You Didn't Know About Shift Drag?!?!?!
#962 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 30/04/2001 12:39 GMT
Hehe I think I actually might not of learnt about it until ages after I started using wc either until someone mentioned it on the qboard (god rest its soul) Other things I know of are:
Texturing
shift-click = select whole brush when texturing.

ctrl-click = select single side of brush when texturing (can also be used to deselect sides if a whole brush is selected to start off with)

Brush Manipulation

shift-drag = moves a copy of selected object.

ctrl-click = selects multiple brushes at once
-----

I think that's the main ones, aren't they all in the wc help file though?

Tron

[Reply]


Shift Drag
#963 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.57], 30/04/2001 13:23 GMT
I can't always get it to work, get frustrated, and go back to c'n'p. Sigh. It's no biggie, really -- unless your machine runs WC real slow or something.

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It Is Vital
#964 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.38], 30/04/2001 13:38 GMT
that you keep shift depressed all the time from you start dragging the thing until you've released the mouse button and you see that the item has been duplicated. Just dragging it and tapping shift for a brief second has no effect.

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Alright
#965 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.200.37], 30/04/2001 15:19 GMT , Refers to Post #964
I'll go try again (mebbe I'll get some mapping in today, too). Thanks, CZG.

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Goshers.
#966 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 30/04/2001 19:48 GMT
if you don't read this thread for awhile and let it get up to around 200+ posts, your head explodes when you read all the map knowledge hidden here.

/me goesa' shift-dragin'

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Yeah
#967 Posted by Biff_Debris [64.12.102.182], 30/04/2001 20:59 GMT
I just found The Easy Guide To Creating Amazing Maps That Will Demoralize Everyone! Ooh, the knowledge! Ooh -- the moral corruption! HAHAHAHAHAH!

/me dissipates in a clump of dingy smoke

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Hmm, No Title
#968 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.249], 01/05/2001 01:42 GMT
..in a clump of dingy smoke

hehe is that dinGy smoke or din-jee smoke?
er.. gib or jib? heee

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PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#969 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.143], 01/05/2001 17:10 GMT
Do NOT bring that argument up again!!!

[Reply]


MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY_EXCEEDED
#970 Posted by Fubar [193.217.207.73], 02/05/2001 20:48 GMT
I am moving closer and closer to a finished bunker map, the whole thing is inside a mountain; But; It has too high r_speeds, and low fps... I sorted this out by making an areaportal... I worked fine, i usually compile at night, so i didnt notice this stupid error that sneaked in in the compile...
Max_map_visibility_exceeded
It wont vis... The map is about 4000 brushes, most of the sides are caulked, and i use detail brushes on crates, ladders, cigar boxes, lights, everything thats little, and it wont go away...
What do I do to kill this error?

Fubar - Universal Assault - www.teaminferno.cjb.net
PS: Currently recruiting, so check it out:)

[Reply]


Fubar
#971 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.206.178], 02/05/2001 22:28 GMT , Refers to Post #970
Dunno much about q3 errors, but it sounds like you may need to rethink your design. Been there -- it hurts like hell to redo when you're so close to finishing, but that's usually when these things crop up =\

[Reply]


What He Said.
#972 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 03/05/2001 01:53 GMT , Refers to Post #970
If all your unseen faces are caulked and all brushes that can be made detail without screwing up vis blocking are detail, you probably need to rethink your design (but there's probably more you can do in both these areas). Another thing you might try is making some of the more complex vis-blocking structural brushes detail and using structurally simpler (e.g. cubic) caulk brushes embedded within them to block vis. There have been a few maps that have been built entirely this way--although it's a bit of an unusual way to go about it.

Good luck. Smile

[Reply]


Fubar
#973 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.117], 03/05/2001 01:53 GMT
I'm no q3 god, but there's two possibilities I can think of that you've run into:

1) Your map has too much visdata for q3map to handle. In Q1, this problem could sometimes be avoided by running a full vis, as that would compress the data. Too much visdata would mean that your map is too big, with too much fine detail. Not sure if this is even a possible problem in q3.

2) You can see too far at a point in the map. This might be a possible problem. If it is, put in some vis blockers.

[Reply]


Unreal Ed Fu..
#974 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.66], 03/05/2001 12:02 GMT
Where can i find some tutorials for this rather boring un fun to use level editor?

Good Luck Fubar!

[Reply]


Creamy
#975 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.200.27], 03/05/2001 13:08 GMT , Refers to Post #974
Go here. Best site I've seen tutorial-wise.

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Thankyou Biff
#976 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.68], 03/05/2001 13:19 GMT
:)

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S'alrite.
#977 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.200.27], 03/05/2001 13:25 GMT , Refers to Post #976
If you find any other useful sites, lemme know -- I still intend to get back to UED eventually.

[Reply]


:(
#978 Posted by Fubar [193.216.42.186], 03/05/2001 15:53 GMT
So i either must rebuild the whole level, or make some serious big caulk brushes the will block my vis? :*(

[Reply]


Or
#979 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 03/05/2001 16:57 GMT , Refers to Post #978
find some faces that aren't caulked and caulk them and find some brushes that aren't detail (and that don't block vis significantly) and make them detail.

I may be completely full of crap, but I'm guessing that there are further optimizations you can do with caulk/detail. There almost always are.

How big/how many brushes does your map have?

[Reply]


Unreal Debris
#980 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.71], 04/05/2001 14:43 GMT
There are some good "foundation" level Unreal tutorials here Biff

[Reply]


My Level Is....
#981 Posted by Fubar [193.217.205.253], 04/05/2001 21:53 GMT
My level is not big... Its medium, it contains some big wallz with gensurf, but they compiled fine from the beginning... Its inside a mouintain, so its a lot of bruses making it "rough"... 4200 brushes to be exact...
:(:(:(

[Reply]


Alright!
#982 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.195.191], 04/05/2001 22:44 GMT , Refers to Post #980
Thanks, man -- "foundation" level, that's me.

[Reply]


Hehe
#983 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.71], 05/05/2001 15:08 GMT
No problem

[Reply]


Genre?
#984 Posted by Lucas [152.163.197.177], 08/05/2001 20:05 GMT
What's your favorite kind of map? Gothic, temple, base? For Q1 of course.

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I Like 'em ALL.
#985 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.206.187], 08/05/2001 23:17 GMT
They all have their strengths and weaknesses, IMO:

Gothic -- wider variety of monsters, and lots of architectural styles to draw from BUT tends to stick to said influences, and looks odd when too experimental.

Temple -- as above, really -- but with a more narrow focus (iconic forms, more "functional" areas, etc).

Base -- wide variety of architectural styles, bordering on experimental (with CRATES, too!) BUT limited variety of monsters.

This is all SP, anyway. You can go whole-hog in DM regardless of styles, with fairly good results, I think.

[Reply]


Ah
#986 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 08/05/2001 23:54 GMT , Refers to Post #985
What about "office" and "pirate cove"?

[Reply]


Hmm
#987 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.82], 09/05/2001 00:22 GMT , Refers to Post #986
Office -- Really limited number of monsters there (mebbe some fiends in the typing pool, some grunts around a rotfish-filled water cooler, vores in the executive washroom, and a shambler in the head office), but lots of tight corners and cubicle-frags.

Pirate cove -- Even more limitations on bad guys (mebbe some eyepatches on the ogres?), but a lot of rotfish fun for all.

Hope that helps =)

[Reply]


Hmm
#988 Posted by Tron [203.38.138.22], 09/05/2001 02:44 GMT
A pirates covewould be a great setting for shamblers nature mapping competition wouldn't it...

Tron

[Reply]


Responding To Multiple Ppl Is Fun
#989 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.190], 09/05/2001 23:38 GMT
Lucas: My favorite type of map is the one I remember.

Tron: Well, get crackin! <pulls out bullwhip>

Waa-pish!

[Reply]


DM Map
#990 Posted by Lucas [152.163.201.84], 10/05/2001 03:02 GMT
I was just watching a Quake speed demo early today, and then it gave me an idea for a DM level. The weird part is is that I'll probably be able to have it done by sometime tomorrow.

It's called Symmetrified Death and it's my first DM. As of right now, everything is working...I'm just hoping that the respawning points are working.

I need someone to test it for me. I still have to do the textures and items, but it's pretty much done.

thank-you

[Reply]


Help
#991 Posted by PabloD [207.173.167.130], 10/05/2001 05:29 GMT
I make maps for Doom & Heretic. The prolem is that i'm getting bored. W/ the new source ports and everything is not hard to make a 3d bridge for Doom or slope walls and stuff, but I want somethin new....
...I was wondering which one is the best Q1 level editor. Yes, Q1.
Which one is the most simple one. where can I get it.

[Reply]


Hmmmm
#992 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.108.185], 10/05/2001 06:57 GMT , Refers to Post #991
Worldcraft is a good starting point...

[Reply]


It's Personal Preference.
#993 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 10/05/2001 06:58 GMT , Refers to Post #991
A lot of quake 1 mappers use worldcraft (which I'm biased to because I love it) but there are a ton of other q1 map editors. You can get worldcraft from http://www.planetquake.com/worldcraft/ I'd just have a look around though and try a few different ones to see what editor suits your style best.

Tron

[Reply]


WC.
#994 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.206], 10/05/2001 11:25 GMT
Still use it, still like it bunches. I know, not everyone uses it, and blah blah blah, but I like it, so there.

[Reply]


WC
#995 Posted by Kell [213.120.145.99], 10/05/2001 16:18 GMT
Still have it, still use it, still love it.
Still the best piece of software a Llama like me ever installed :P

[Reply]


Uh?
#996 Posted by DaZ [62.7.85.121], 10/05/2001 18:17 GMT
There are other Q1 editors?? Smile

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Yes
#997 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.32.126], 10/05/2001 18:35 GMT
I use QER...

But WC is better for beginners

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WC Is Horrible
#998 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 10/05/2001 19:56 GMT
I can't understand it.

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QER For Q1
#999 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 10/05/2001 22:36 GMT , Refers to Post #997
How easy is it to use QER/Q3R for Q1? Is there much fiddly monkeying and shennanigans involved?

[Reply]


#1000
#1000 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 10/05/2001 22:49 GMT
0wned!

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Doh
#1001 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 10/05/2001 23:27 GMT
does post #1001 count as ownage?

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Nope.
#1002 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.62], 10/05/2001 23:42 GMT , Refers to Post #1001
That's just more fiddly monkeying.

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No
#1003 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 11/05/2001 00:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1001
becuase I was waiting all day to get post #1000 Smile

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My Map
#1004 Posted by Lucas [64.12.103.167], 11/05/2001 04:09 GMT
And, of course, I didn't get it done today. I was working with lights within the level and I'm up to 70 lights. To cut down to r_speeds I was going to put sixteen doors in my level. Sixteen doors seems like an aweful lot, but I have sixteen passageways that are nothing but air. Someone can see from one side of the map to the other just by looking through one.

The bad thing is, when I made one door and ran the map, it said that the door didn't have a function. I have made plenty of doors before and didn't have a problem. Can someone give me some help?

Does the door have to have a name to work? I also want to make every door shootable so you have to shoot it to open it up. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

[Reply]


Lucas...
#1005 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.8], 11/05/2001 05:45 GMT
one doesn't have to name a door. This is only required if the door is to be triggered by a button or the death of an enemy etc. Naming a door and having nothing targeting it will cause all sorts of probs. To make the door shootable - give it some health, say 5 pts. If the door you've got doesn't work try sending it back to the world then re-tieing it to func_door entity and re-setting the parameters.

[Reply]


Doors
#1006 Posted by GlassMan [213.121.125.20], 11/05/2001 05:47 GMT
I don't know whats up with your doors Lucas but, in Quake at least, they wont block the visibility of the engine so they wont help with r_speeds. You'll need to put turns in the corridors or some structural brushes in to block visibility.

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Qer/q3r
#1007 Posted by GlassMan [213.121.125.20], 11/05/2001 05:56 GMT , Refers to Post #999
You'll need mapconv.exe from here http://www.planetquake.com/rem/

Its a bit fiddly to use these editors mainly due to the extra stage of setting up the textures correctly for use in the editor (q2 wals for qer & jpgs/tgas for q3r) whereas the level is still compiled using a wad.

The good thing is you are relatively future proof as worldcraft wont edit any modern games whereas most q3 based games use a radiant type editor.

[Reply]


Thanks
#1008 Posted by PabloD [207.173.167.80], 11/05/2001 07:38 GMT
Thanks dudes, I'll try to make a great map.

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Rock Tutorials?
#1009 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.56], 11/05/2001 20:54 GMT
Anyone know a good way to make good-looking montains in Q3? A turorial would be nice.

[Reply]


Q1qer
#1010 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 11/05/2001 22:04 GMT , Refers to Post #1007
Cheers GlassMan, I'll check that out.

[Reply]


QER/Q3R
#1011 Posted by Lunaran [152.163.197.59], 12/05/2001 02:40 GMT
Making a Q1 map in Q3 is impossible. I've tried.

Even with fiddly monkeying with textures/wads and special compiles and map ocnvertors, Q3R still makes it impossible to make a Q1 map because the default texture scale is 0.5. You COULD set Q3R to Quake2 editing mode, which I didn't want to try because it fucks up all your settings if you've got another instance of Q3R installed somewhere else for Q3 editing, and requires further borking around with map convertors and wals and texture buggery.

However, there is a q1 entities.def file for q3r floating around somewhere (can't remember where I found mine), and since Sleepwalkr's map converter is specifically written to convert q2 map files to q1 by stripping out the surface properties, that's the ideal way to go, as long as you don't want to make q3 maps at the same time.

Moon

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So Was I....
#1012 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 12/05/2001 09:16 GMT
well... maybe not then

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Dual Boot
#1013 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 12/05/2001 10:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1011
I've got Win98 and 2K on my system so I was going to slap QER under 2K so as not to mess things up in 98 where I do my Q3 editing.

(...wonders why SiN runs so well in 2K when even the latest patch still fks up constantly in 98...)

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Qer Won't Mess Up Q3r
#1014 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 12/05/2001 10:48 GMT
At least I haven't noticed anything.

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Oh Right
#1015 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 12/05/2001 12:08 GMT
I've always been wary of installing different radiant flavours... out of interest, have people had EFradiant etc. installed at the same time? Any probs?

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I Have
#1016 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.72.78], 12/05/2001 16:58 GMT
I currently have:

QERadiant
Q3Radiant
GTKRadiant
EFRadiant
FAKK2Radiant
DKTRadiant

Installed... I think I should get some kind of prize =)

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Hmmm
#1017 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.152], 12/05/2001 17:02 GMT
Is Q3R just a l33ter version of QER then?

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1018 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.67], 12/05/2001 17:43 GMT
Lieutenant: Yup. The QER builds go as high as version 147, the first public Q3R was build 181, and the latest is 202. Q3R isn't being developed anymore, in favor of GTKRadiant, which picks up where Q3R left off. FAKK2Rad, DKTRad, EFRad, etc, are all branches off the QER/Q3R source tree.

Constant evolution, man. ;)

(OK, so maybe with GTKRadiant it's a step sideways, but whatever.)

[Reply]


Kreator
#1019 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.67], 12/05/2001 18:38 GMT
You have two choices for mountain-making: by hand or with Gensurf.

Gensurf is a natural terrain generation program that comes as a plugin with recent Q3Radiant and GTKRadianr builds. The results will look very "natural," but they may be too high in polycount, and you have little control over exactly how the program forms the terrain. id software used Gensurf to make the massive terrain levels in Team Arena.

Doing it by hand is probably harder to make look "good," will take longer, but your results are ultimately in your hands, and if you take the time to learn the techniques, it'll look damn fine too. Rust has some excellent tutorials. The tuts are written with QERadiant and Quake 2 in mind, but the concepts stay the same for any editor and any game.

Try this:
http://www.gamedesign.net/style/terrain/index.shtml

Personally, I don't like the method described for cliffs faces, but whatever floats your boat.

[Reply]


Grahf
#1020 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.37], 12/05/2001 23:00 GMT
Well, don't like the rust either, have tried it. Guess by hand is the only thing left (at least I know what I'm gonna be doing the newxt 3 days). GenSurf isn't an option for me. Need to keep the r_speed down.

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Hehe
#1021 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.195.182], 13/05/2001 02:51 GMT , Refers to Post #1016
Like what -- more HD space?

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Editor
#1022 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.109], 13/05/2001 04:15 GMT
I recomend to try Quark (http://www.planetquake.com/quark) - good modern editor, constantly updated, supports all major games (q3 included), very powerfull and relatevely easy to learn.

But radiant/bsp(another nice q1/q2 qer-like editor) own with its ability to adjust textures right in 3d window with your mouse.

btw, is it possible to have textures displayed as 64 square tumbnails in any radiant ?

[Reply]


Nah
#1023 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.38.45], 13/05/2001 11:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1021
I have enough space =)

Oh, and I forgot, I have a second QERadiant install which has been set-up for Half-Life.

So that'd be 7 different versions...

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VIS-ing
#1024 Posted by Lucas [205.188.193.23], 13/05/2001 22:16 GMT
I was wondering if a kind individual would do the honor of vising my map for me. Of course, it could just be the fact that I'm impatient. I waited two hours, then when I pressed ctrl-alt-del to exit out of it, it said that it was no longer responding.

My computer is a 100 mhz pentium with only 32 ram and 4 mb graphics card. I need someone with a fast pc to vis for me. Could anyone be willing to do this for me?

[Reply]


Lucas
#1025 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.168], 13/05/2001 22:24 GMT , Refers to Post #1024
If your map's q1/q2, I can do it. Send me the .map file and whatever textures you're using (if they're standard id stuff, just lemme know).

Meanwhile, get a new PC (hehe).

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1026 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.160], 14/05/2001 04:25 GMT
What's a map?

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When It Says Not Responding...
#1027 Posted by Tron [203.38.138.22], 14/05/2001 04:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1024
when it says not responding when you ctrl-alt-delete it doesn't mean anythings wrong, it always says that.

Tron

[Reply]


Yeah
#1028 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.167], 14/05/2001 11:03 GMT
but why compile on a 100Mhz when you can get it done on a 1Ghz? Unless you're going for the vis record of course.

Hey, I wonder if vis would run on my Amstrad 1512?

[Reply]


Well
#1029 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.56], 14/05/2001 15:34 GMT
His map's only got 540 brushes, but after over an hour, I cut VIS off, too. I mean shit, my 2000 brush sp map only takes around 10 minutes (400 mhz AMD K6-2, btw)!

I told him to get a second opinion, but I think he may want to redo the design.

[Reply]


Map Lighting Probs..
#1030 Posted by Dominion [212.228.46.214], 14/05/2001 23:03 GMT
Hi all,

I've kinda started mapping again after a long break, and thus have started learning GTK Radiant. Everything is going well - i've created my 'hello world' of mapping (2 connected rooms .. like woah).

The problem being is that when I add a light entity (the basic no frills one) and do a compile (i've tried various - the usual one I use is 'BSP_FastVis (light -extra)). When I load the map it is fullbright - and there 2 errors listed when I drop to the console:

Couldn't find image for shader dom/levelshots.tga
WARNING: light grid mismatch

Any ideas anyone? ://

[Reply]


Mapping Probs Continued..
#1031 Posted by Dominion [212.228.46.214], 14/05/2001 23:19 GMT
Just a FYI that i've followed the advice given here:

http://quake3.qeradiant.com/q3afiles/fbright.htm

and still have no joy .. :(

[Reply]


.
#1032 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 15/05/2001 00:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1030
the first error you have there just means you haven't made a levelshot for the map yet, which is no big deal.

the second means that there is no lightmap, therefore you're map is fullbright as you can see. you need to add complexity to the map to make it compile the light right. even if you've tried "the spur", you may want to try adding multiple "spurs".

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Light Hates Me :p
#1033 Posted by Dominion [212.228.46.214], 15/05/2001 00:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1032
Cheers Scampie - i've since added two curve meshes and there are now 8 "spurs". I'm starting to wonder if my light.exe or whatever is used these days is broken.

I guess downloading a test map from somewhere and bsping that should be a good enough test. Anyone got a 'test' map that _definitely_ lights ok handy? :)

[Reply]


Grouping Etc
#1034 Posted by Dominion [212.228.46.214], 15/05/2001 00:26 GMT
I've also been trying to find where you 'group' brushes together and add 'visgroups' as per the days of Worldcraft .. are these still around?

I'm gonna get me a print out of the Q3R manual tomorrow so hopefully I won't waste too much more of your time :)

Ok, Q3R has me beat t'night - i'll be back for more tomorrow. Did everyone have this much agro converting from Worldcraft/Qoole etc? or is it just me? ;o)

[Reply]


Hehe
#1035 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.181], 15/05/2001 01:00 GMT , Refers to Post #1034
I never had a problem with Q3Radiant or GTKRadiant -- but my machine did. Learning to use Radiant never seemed to be that big of a deal.

[Reply]


If You Want . . .
#1036 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.112], 15/05/2001 01:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1034
I could just email you the current thing that I'm working on that I started on Saturday . . . it lights fine in about two or three minutes . . . and you could throw that into your map file. Let me know.

I converted over from Qoole and it wasn't too much of a problem--and I now like it much more. Smile

[Reply]


Lol @hello World
#1037 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.90.68], 15/05/2001 01:56 GMT
heh, didn't realize that was such a universal thing


printf("Hello World!\n");

only funny cuz i had to do it this semester Smile

[Reply]


Um...
#1038 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.11.89], 15/05/2001 06:40 GMT , Refers to Post #1030
Just bring down the console, or failing that use the vid_restart command. That tends to get it to display the lightmap.

[Reply]


Dominion:
#1039 Posted by Maj [194.82.103.140], 15/05/2001 07:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1033
starting to wonder if my light.exe or whatever is used these days is broken.

Your light compiler is fine, it's an known engine problem. Should be fixed in the next point release.

[Reply]


Thanks
#1040 Posted by Dominion [194.203.177.122], 15/05/2001 09:25 GMT
for all the responses guys! - a big help :)

pjw please do send me that small map and i'll give it a compile when I get home t'night. Cheers!

NotoriousRay ahhh the joy that is hello world eh? - a tradition that will never be truly ended and one that can be applied to mapping for sure (when your map looks like mine does at the moment anyways :p)

I have to admit that besides these niggles the Radiant learning is going well - still looking for that group button though :o)

Thanks again all.

[Reply]


Try This...
#1041 Posted by mortn [129.187.208.100], 15/05/2001 12:11 GMT , Refers to Post #1030
Try making the map more complex. It´s a known bug. Just add things, after a while it will be properly lit.

[Reply]


Fullbright Bug
#1042 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.229.87.1], 15/05/2001 21:13 GMT
This is much worse in the current version of Q3A than in older ones. The old tricks like console toggling and vid_restart don't work. Basically until memory usage for the map hits a certain level (typically when the bsp size gets over 200K, but it can need as much as 400K sometimes) the lightmap IS compiled but for reasons unknown the engine does not render it.

I had a test box-map recently that suddenly started showing the lightmap, without me actually rebuilding the bsp, when I added an extra stage to one of the shaders I was testing.

As has been said already, add more stuff, but it seems that loading more textures helps too.

[Reply]


Not Really "mapping", But
#1043 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.73], 15/05/2001 23:21 GMT
I still need help. I can't get GL support for Quake 2 and GLQuake (Q2 just displays "no acceleration hardware detected" and GLQ has a mighty bizarre purple half-screen), even after reinstalling video card drivers and DirectX (for what it's worth). I got it to work befroe, but cannot remember for the life of me. Help, or else my Q2 project may go to Doom2.

[Reply]


Paper Thin Glass
#1044 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.68], 16/05/2001 00:01 GMT
In radiant how do i get nil thickness glass that draws on both sides of brush or patch? ive seen it done just wondered how..

[Reply]


Pick The Right Shader
#1045 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.199.26], 16/05/2001 00:19 GMT
some glass shaders don't cull the backsides of faces. look through sfx.shader and find a glass shader that has one of the following lines in it:

cull none
cull disable


then put that texture on one face of a brush, and texture the other faces with "nodraw".

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1046 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 16/05/2001 00:27 GMT
Cheers Lun :)

[Reply]


And Remember
#1047 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.199.26], 16/05/2001 00:35 GMT
if you find a glass shader you want but it doesn't have that line in it, just writing it in won't fix it. You're only changing the shader for yourself, everyone else will see it the original way.

[Reply]


Waitaminute.
#1048 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.197], 16/05/2001 00:36 GMT
What about my GL problem? Daaang.

[Reply]


Opengl Problems
#1049 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.68.245], 16/05/2001 00:37 GMT , Refers to Post #1043
seems u have an opengl problem.. well most likely that is. :)

first go search for
opengl32.dll
glu32.dll

these should only be found in c:\windows\system\
if you find those files anywhere else you can probably delete them. just make a backup of anything you are about to delete incase it breaks some other game. ;)

now that u have cleaned up any unauthorized dll files.. try running it again. If you still have the problem, try installing these .dll files.

openGL32.dll & GLu32.dll Download
these are drivers from a WinME install.. they also work on Win98 system i tested it.

just unzip them in c:\windows\system
reboot then try running again.. if still no luck I would reinstall the video card drivers.

if you have an nvidia video card I have provided instructions on how to remove and reinstall those drivers in WinME. Win98 isn't that different..

ok first off.. goto the Display Properties, Settings Tab, then Advanced Options.. goto the Adapter Tab and change your Display Adapter to: Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA). Now reboot

after your system reboots, open the file search tool.. and search for nv*.* you can safely delete these files.. make a backup if you wish.
c:\windows\system\
NVARCH16 DLL
NVARCH32 DLL
NVCORE VXD
NVDISP DRV
NVINST32 DLL
NVMODE DLL
NVDD32 DLL
NVMINI VXD
NVMINI2 VXD
NVOPENGL DLL
NVCPL DLL
NVDESK32 DLL
NVDMCPL DLL
NVQTWK DLL
c:\windows\help
NVCPL HLP

after erasing the files, you can reboot if you wish but you shouldn't have to. The standard VGA driver should still be installed. Now lets reinstall the nvidia display driver.

I highly recommend the v11.01 drivers - yes these are beta/leaked drivers. But I have found them to be the fastest, and most stable. To be safe you can use the standard v6.50 drivers off nvidia's website.. just grab the .exe version and run it to install the drivers.

Download v11.01 Detonators

If you wish to install the v11.01 drivers, unzip these to a temp directory.. c:\nvwin9x_1101 is what i use.

Then go back to the adapter settings on the display properties.. and click Change, then "Specify the location of the driver (Advanced)" and click next. check the "Display a list of all the drivers in a specific location, so you can select the driver you want." then click next. Click the "Have Disk" option, and point it to the c:\nvwin9x_1101 folder, and select the .inf file in that folder.

now click ok.. until is installs the drivers. :)
after your reboot, you should be up and running.. if not then i would try reinstalling Q1/Q2.

good luck..
-Shadow

[Reply]


Impatient Little...
#1050 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.68.245], 16/05/2001 00:41 GMT , Refers to Post #1048
hehe.. impatient aren't we.
it took me a long time to type that... it better work otherwise i'll have to kill you.

hehe

[Reply]


You See
#1051 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 16/05/2001 00:44 GMT
Some one DOES care Biff

[Reply]


Biff
#1052 Posted by DaZ [62.7.115.128], 16/05/2001 00:53 GMT
I can understand you getting upset about Q1 not working, but Q2, ppfffft Smile

[Reply]


*sniff*
#1053 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.167], 16/05/2001 00:59 GMT
Thanks SD. But I already have both the .dlls in the windows/system directory, and have repeatedly re-installed my drivers and the game (Q2, at least -- couldn't really give a shit about GLQuake). Oh yeah, I wish I had a nvidia card (ATI Rage Pro).

[Reply]


...
#1054 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.68.245], 16/05/2001 01:04 GMT
ati.. hmm
never owned one so i really dont know, if you can download the ati drivers and unzip them into a folder so u can see the list of files.

after install the VGA driver, delete the ATI files in c:\windows\system and try to reinstall the ATI drivers.

does any other opengl games work?? Q3, Half-Life, Serious Sam?

if you cant get it working i really dont know.. maybe time to format/reload? yuck!

[Reply]


Biff_Debris
#1055 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.58], 16/05/2001 02:50 GMT
Win shambler`s contest to get a proper 3d card ;)

[Reply]


Dominion
#1056 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.113], 16/05/2001 04:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1040
I sent it. My mail server's a bit screwed at the moment, so I hope you get it. Tongue

[Reply]


Um . . .
#1057 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.112], 16/05/2001 04:11 GMT , Refers to Post #1044
Lun said: if you find a glass shader you want but it doesn't have that line in it, just writing it in won't fix it. You're only changing the shader for yourself, everyone else will see it the original way.

Unless, of course, you include your altered shader in your pk3--but if you do so, please rename the shader (.shader name and the name of the shader itself) to something specific to your map (e.g. creamglass) to avoid potential conflicts with id shaders and other custom shaders.

Sorry if you know that already, but a lot of people are unclear on the concept, so I erred on the side of being obvious. Smile

[Reply]


Why? (Not Really Offtopic)
#1058 Posted by Kreator [194.17.220.2], 16/05/2001 09:32 GMT
Why did I go o school today, I could have been up all night mapping instead. Woken up at three and started mapping again. But no, I'm sitting in my schools computer room waiting for the bus to come and take me home... Only onw hour left now.. =(=(

Well, at least I can check the mapping community.

Cheers!

[Reply]


School Sucks.
#1059 Posted by metlslime [140.142.171.94], 16/05/2001 20:03 GMT
drop out like i did!

[Reply]


Err..
#1060 Posted by park [47.230.0.42], 16/05/2001 21:12 GMT
creamglass...

sounds like an interesting 'shader'...

[Reply]


School?!
#1061 Posted by XeNoN [62.7.185.150], 16/05/2001 21:27 GMT
drop out like i did!

just 33 more days.... just 33..... Sad

[Reply]


Hehe
#1062 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.200.59], 16/05/2001 22:42 GMT , Refers to Post #1054
yuck!

Yuck is right. More like FUCK, really. I think I'm coming closer to taking the plunge again, and getting a P4/GeForce Ass-Kicker.

[Reply]


An Idea Of Mine...
#1063 Posted by Lucas [152.163.207.72], 17/05/2001 02:42 GMT
I know...it's bad to get ideas in a persons head, but this has been rolling around for a while.

Consider a deathmatch match...it has a certain layout and item placement. What if we made a deathmatch that was almost completely interactive...

Just think...a deathmatch map that is only one room, but there are numerous buttons on the walls. Depending on which buttons you press or shoot at, walls emerge within the little room or the ground raises up. In this kind of a deathmatch, you couldn't rely on brute force totally, but your brain...another scary thought. You'd have to think of a way to kill your opponent. Before he shoots you do you:

a) push a button that actives a wall inbetween you too...
b) push a button that raises him off the ground

or..

c) push a button that kills him instantly

Of course, this would all depend on your locations in the room and you'd have to think fast to implement strategy.

Am I the first one who has thought this up? I doubt it, but can anyone comment on this? Would it be neat...is it possible?

[Reply]


Actually
#1064 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.76], 17/05/2001 03:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1063
I don't think I've ever heard of that before -- neat idea Lucas, except mebbe the insta-kill button. That might be the equivalent of a BFG in Q2. But a manipulated environment, toggled by remote control, is actually pretty tempting. It's not like it's never been done before, to a smaller degree, but an entire map devoted to a Machivellian theme -- wicked. And probably possible to some degree, even with standard entities.

Definitely a brain-muncher.

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Dark City...
#1065 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.8], 17/05/2001 03:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1064
yes, yes, yes! Go for it Lucas.

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Hmm, What Game?
#1066 Posted by Tron [203.30.236.72], 17/05/2001 04:04 GMT
That sounds pretty cool but you'd have troubles playing over the net with that many entities in the level, if you can do it it sounds really fun though.

Tron

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That's True
#1067 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.34], 17/05/2001 11:43 GMT , Refers to Post #1066
but you'd have troubles playing over the net with that many entities in the level

Mebbe a small map, or a larger version for LANs and such?

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XeNoN
#1068 Posted by Grahf [209.145.70.156], 17/05/2001 23:46 GMT
33 more days for you? I pity ya, I got like 21. ;)

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Hmmph
#1069 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.102], 18/05/2001 13:48 GMT
I'm at Uni for another 6 weeks - but at least I get a T-3 to play with while I'm here...

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0wned
#1070 Posted by Lunaran [206.68.160.2], 18/05/2001 14:17 GMT
10 days. Yay!

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Hmm
#1071 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.125.46], 18/05/2001 14:32 GMT , Refers to Post #1070
7 days...

But I then have another year =)

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Well
#1072 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.102], 18/05/2001 14:55 GMT
OK, so I probably lose cos I have another 3 years to go, but hey...

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Hee Hee Hee
#1073 Posted by Lucas [205.188.197.36], 18/05/2001 17:17 GMT
I was out of school for the summer on April 20th!! Can anyone beat that?

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Hmm, No Title
#1074 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 18/05/2001 17:55 GMT
well, I finished last week... my exams finish in 31 days from now, then it's on to college

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I Bet Shambler Could
#1075 Posted by Lunaran [172.159.129.71], 18/05/2001 23:00 GMT
isn't he a 41 year old in his undershirt living in a trailer park?

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Hehe
#1076 Posted by Biff_Debris [64.12.101.152], 19/05/2001 00:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1075
Yeah -- he pays rent with downloaded pr0n and mp3s.

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No
#1077 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.156], 19/05/2001 15:10 GMT
Shambler's English isn't he? We don't have "trailer parks" here.

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That's What You Think
#1078 Posted by Lunaran [172.128.5.126], 19/05/2001 16:10 GMT
er ...

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Yep
#1079 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.156], 19/05/2001 16:57 GMT
that's just what I thought.

Anyone else like to enter this (un)informed discussion?

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Aw
#1080 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.41], 19/05/2001 20:50 GMT , Refers to Post #1077
Sure you do, you've probably just got a much more polite name for them.

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I Need Some People To Look At My Map.
#1081 Posted by Austin [213.104.168.254], 19/05/2001 23:09 GMT
It is a Quake 1 map for deathmatch, probably fit about 4 to 8 players in, but I'd need suggestions on that as I've never played it with anyone else.

ABCool3 is the name and this is my third attempt(Not completely finished yet, this is why I'm asking for ideas on what to put in)

EMAIL ME with your comments on it and ideas on what I could add to it, as I won't be returning for a while. ( tiger_chicken@hotmail.com )

Download it at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brocks/ (you can find my other maps there too :o))

Austin

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Shambler
#1082 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.141], 20/05/2001 04:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1075
is not "he"
I bet she is a woman

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Hmm
#1083 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.195.106], 20/05/2001 09:00 GMT
Actually, the fact that Shambler is male and lives in south England are the only two things we know...

And we call them caravan sites

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Hehe Grind
#1084 Posted by Apollo [213.123.26.119], 20/05/2001 10:20 GMT
Yes it does sound more polite

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OK
#1085 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.154], 20/05/2001 13:45 GMT
Fair enough, caravan sites. I'd forgotten about that hideous part of British culture, populated mostly by humanities teachers and retired humanities teachers.

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Austin
#1086 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.91], 20/05/2001 15:24 GMT
Try it with some Omibots, perhaps?

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Caravan Sites
#1087 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.172], 20/05/2001 19:24 GMT
Do they attract tornados like our trailer parks do? Or do you guys have a nice name for those too ("blusters", "blathers" or "bothers")?

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Lifts
#1088 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 20/05/2001 20:12 GMT
Does any1 know where i can find a decent lift tutorial for Q3?

New version of GTk is rather good!

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Biff You Tart
#1089 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 20/05/2001 20:54 GMT
We don't get tornadoes. Just rain.

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Lifts Again
#1090 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.72], 20/05/2001 22:08 GMT
Can any1 tell me how to make a simple lift, I have a good understanding of radiant so it doesnt have to be too in depth.

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Hmm
#1091 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.136.46], 20/05/2001 22:19 GMT , Refers to Post #1090
Use a func_plat

(That shallow enough for you? =)

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Hmmmm
#1092 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.72], 20/05/2001 22:28 GMT
That'll do :)

THANKS

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Hehe
#1093 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.197], 20/05/2001 23:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1089
Well I guess it's good that things are predictable, at least =)

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Vrajgh Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1094 Posted by Vrajgh [213.1.129.67], 21/05/2001 20:11 GMT
umm.... we do get tornadoes occassionally, just they are very small ones. Didn't you see the pics after the storms last september? There was one on the Kent coast I think.

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Pah
#1095 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.186], 21/05/2001 21:27 GMT
I don't hold with any of that freaky southern 'weather'.

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TOO MANY EFRAGS!
#1096 Posted by palldjon@uni [131.172.4.45], 22/05/2001 00:13 GMT
Game = Q1SP
Editor = WC

"Rumours" is ready to send off to Speedy, Biff and Scraggy for final testing but when I load the .bsp "TOO MANY EFRAGS!" goes scrolling down the console. The level runs, if somewhat jerkily. Is it an entity problem?

Also, I'd like to include a co-op start. Is it just a matter of placing a "player2start" in the appropriate place?

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Ooh! Ooh!
#1097 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.47], 22/05/2001 01:04 GMT , Refers to Post #1096
Have no idea what the "efrags" thing is about -- or co-op starts for that matter, but I still can't wait to see the map.

/me hates being so useless!

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Whatsdiz???
#1098 Posted by infiniface [195.56.84.209], 22/05/2001 01:33 GMT
I can't compile my map, though I tried every brush repair tool I have... The VIS phase says:

9581 portalclusters
34201 numportals
37692 numfaces
************ ERROR ************
MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY exceeded

aaaaahhhh!!! pleaseeee!

[Reply]


Sounds Like You're Not Using Detail.
#1099 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 22/05/2001 01:49 GMT , Refers to Post #1098
Detail brushes, that is. This will cause the visibility calculations (especially on large maps) to become too complicated.

Words of wisdom, cut-and-pasted from Johnny Law:
The surfaces of a detail brush are not involved in defining the BSP tree for the map.

Since the whole concept of visibility in Q3 revolves around using the nodes of the BSP tree, this means that detail brushes do not block visibility. If you make a wall detail, then as far as the visibility calculations for Q3 are concerned, that wall might as well not be there.

This reduces the amount of visibility information that has to be calculated and stored for your map (the "visdata"), but it's a power you must use wisely or else your r_speeds will increase.

In many cases the use of detail brushes is a no-brainer. For example, if you've constructed a small decorative doodad out of brushes, something that is to be attached to the wall/ceiling/floor, then make all of its brushes detail. There is absolutely no reason that q3map should have to think about that doodad when figuring out the visibility information for the map.

For larger things though... before you decide to make them detail, you should really understand the compile process and how detail is involved in it. There's probably several links about this on claudec's tutorials page. The two I usually recommend are SPoG's and Geoff DeWan's. Note that Geoff DeWan's tutorial covers both Q2 and Q3 -- the two engines are a bit different, so pay close attention when he explains the differences (those instances are marked with a little Q3-Quad symbol).

It's also a subject that has been discussed many times on this board, so do a bit of searching.

In any case, remember this: Always caulk all hidden faces on detail brushes. And also, always caulk any hidden faces on other brushes if those faces are at least partially hidden by detail brushes. The reasons for this are explained in the tutorials and etc. Just don't forget to do it. Actually if you just make a habit of always caulking all hidden faces, you should be cool, no matter what you make detail.

[Reply]


Detail
#1100 Posted by infiniface [195.56.84.209], 22/05/2001 01:57 GMT
Thanks. I think it will help. It 'll take some time to work out :)))

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Tomorrow Biff...
#1101 Posted by palldjon@uni [131.172.4.45], 22/05/2001 04:13 GMT , Refers to Post #1097
and I reduced the number of entities to 599 (I seemed to remember 600 as some sort of magical limit for some reason) and the EFRAGS! message didn't scroll. None of the bitey, spitting, tearing ents were deleted.

Still need an answer on the co-op start. As I'd like it tested.

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Re: TOO MANY EFRAGS!
#1102 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 22/05/2001 04:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1096
...when I load the .bsp "TOO MANY EFRAGS!" goes scrolling down the console. The level runs, if somewhat jerkily. Is it an entity problem?

I had this problem with Moonlight Assault and I emailed Carmack about it. I don't seem to have a copy of the message any more, but what he said was something like this...

He said that "efrag" stands for entity fragment and that when an entity is placed in a map it generates one or more entity fragments (only entities with models count I think - i.e. not lights and stuff). Usually an entity only generates a few of these, but if the goemetry in the immediate error is complex, then it could generate dozens.

What caused the problem for me (I think) was that the large number of flames that I placed directly over my "flame holders" all around the map. Removing a few of these flames got rid of the problem.

Hopefully that helps you in some way.

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Grahf, Texture Hunter
#1103 Posted by Grahf [209.145.79.34], 22/05/2001 05:02 GMT
Alright, I'm looking for Arabian-themed textures. I've been inspired to try my hand at Q3 editing, so I'm courting something that is one part Arabian Nights, one part Lovecraft's excellent "Imprisoned With the Pharaohs," and one part The DooM That Came to Dunwich.

That, or I'll do the most depressing, opressive, dirty, and industrial arcane factory I can conjure up. Haven't really decided yet. :)

So, pray, can ne-one point out some good textures for such ventures? (I've got the industrial covered already. /me spooges on HH3 Vendetta)

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Tyrann Rules...
#1104 Posted by palldjon@uni [131.172.4.44], 22/05/2001 06:59 GMT , Refers to Post #1102
although I'm wondering when you got the opportunity to peek at my level Question. It was too many Flames in the way of torches in torch holders. I'm heading home and offline now, so I guess the co-op implementation will have to wait until after the testing - although I'd still like the know how.

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Co-op
#1105 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.126], 22/05/2001 08:35 GMT
Just put in info_player_coop's in the appropriate area. If you don't have any it'll use a info_player_start instead, but if you have one it will *only* use that one, so put in more than one.

I *think* that makes sense.

[Reply]


Efrags
#1106 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 22/05/2001 10:21 GMT
The problem can also be caused by having too many brushes in a brush model or very complex brush models. I don't know what the limit is though.

On the subject of limits I don't know where the figure of 600 comes from. I found that the limit on brush models is 256 & the limit on total entities (brush & point) is 2048. This is with v1.08 is quake.exe or later. v1.06 may have a lower limit on the total number.

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Entity Limit
#1107 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.157], 22/05/2001 10:45 GMT
The maximum entity limit of 600 is hard-coded into the engine.

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Hmmm..
#1108 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 22/05/2001 14:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1107
I had 2039 entities in gmsp1 so it can't have been hard-coded very wellSmile

That map used custents but afaik that doesn't have code to up the entity count.

[Reply]


That..
#1109 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 22/05/2001 14:36 GMT
includes lights of course..maybe theres a separate limit for non-light entities?

[Reply]


The 600 Limit...
#1110 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 22/05/2001 17:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1106
I think the figure 600 people are referring to is the hardcoded limit on "edicts". These are basically entities that do have a model or get triggered. For example, static lights don't count but switching lights do.

If you want to check how many edicts you are using, type "edictcount" at the console.

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More On Efrags:
#1111 Posted by CZG [195.159.54.18], 22/05/2001 21:57 GMT
also if you're making a large level and turn all your tiny bits and bobs into one gigant func_wall or func_illusionary, you get the same thing because the boundingbox of the entity spans, well probably your entire level. (I did this in czg07 a lot.)
I fixed it by splitting the large entity up into many small ones or just by reverting them back to world.
I had no idea you could get this with 'model models' though, I learn something new every day. Except for yesterday...

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XeNoN Is Still Working On A Title
#1112 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 22/05/2001 22:03 GMT
func_wall or func_illusionary

what are the advantages of these? i dunno why they are used so much

[Reply]


...
#1113 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 22/05/2001 22:05 GMT
Oh and I know what they're used for, I just dont see the point in putting detail in them unnecessarily, like illusionary teleport brushes, or certain brush groups as a func wall (like the exit in CZG's 100b2 moon map)

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1114 Posted by metlslime [140.142.172.133], 22/05/2001 22:11 GMT
efrags: if an entity occupies more than one bsp leaf, it probably has to be split into pieces so that the bsp visibility method works.

func_wall: doesn't cut up the bsp tree, thereby simplifying compiling and sometimes lowering r_speeds. Can be removed by killtargeting.

func_illusionary: it's not solid, silly. Therefore, you can walk through it. Aside from using it for a secret, you can use it to make things like little blades of grass that dont trip up the player. (i think A3 had this)

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Hmmmm Problems
#1115 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 22/05/2001 23:23 GMT
I am having a problem with radiant (all versions). If i load a map with radiant and select any brush i can see a mirror image of that brush just behind it(mirror image is upside down). the 2 brushes are joined by 2 lines that cross over and the closer i try to move to the mirrored brush the further away it gets.
If i "load" a map in radiant i can see 2 versions of the same map and all the brushes are joined.

I have tried adjusting the views and Edit/prefferances settings, uninstalling both Q3 and radiant deleting all files then reinstalling but with no luck.

What have i missed?
Am i a fool?
Or is radiant being wierd?
Can someone please help me before i start braking things?

[Reply]


Oh And
#1116 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 22/05/2001 23:30 GMT
The grids have just 1 slanted line sometimes

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Cream
#1117 Posted by Lunaran [152.163.213.189], 23/05/2001 00:48 GMT
That sounds seriously fucked up. Report it ASAP. Exclamation

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Sorted
#1118 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.66], 23/05/2001 01:20 GMT
Man do i feel stupid...
Updated Radeon drivers for win2k, problem sorted.
But the drivers i was using were only about 3 months old.

Be warned radeon users!!!

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Terrain Editor Here
#1119 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.70], 23/05/2001 02:29 GMT
Stumbled accross an easy to use terrain generation tool for Quake 3. Get Easygen here

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ARGH! ! WTF Is A Leafnode?
#1120 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.59.47], 23/05/2001 03:22 GMT
The Quark qbsp (txqbsp.exe) gives me this error when compiling my Q1 map.

************ ERROR ************
Mixed face contents in leafnode

all the other qbsps i have (qbsp.exe, wqbsp.exe, and the open quartz qbsp.exe)
give me this error...

************ ERROR ************
numtexinfo == MAX_MAP_TEXINFO

Does it have something to do with textures?
What is does that mean?

How does one fix it?

-Jimbo

[Reply]


Buggery Fuck
#1121 Posted by Seth [213.1.95.198], 23/05/2001 04:32 GMT
you know that thing when qbsp crashes when compiling from wc1.6? good, cos i fekin dont Sad it gets to
building hulls sequentially
Brush_LoadEntity
then dies... any ideas? up to about 5 mins b4 i had no probs.. and all i did since the last compile was align some tex afaik so im a tad lost...
.rmf or .map available if u can check it out... cheers Smile

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Re: ARGH! ! WTF Is A Leafnode?
#1122 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 23/05/2001 06:45 GMT , Refers to Post #1120
I'm not sure about the texinfo error but I know you can have up to 255 textures in a bsp. That's probably not your problem...

The mixed contents in leafnode means that the compiler couldn't tell whether to make a leafnode solid, slime, lava, water or sky. This usually means you have done one of two things:

a) You have a brush with different kinds of faces, like one solid and one water/sky/whatever.

b) You have two different kinds of liquids touching - e.g. a water brush touching a sky brush

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LTH...
#1123 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 23/05/2001 07:57 GMT , Refers to Post #1105
sorry I'm a bit brain dead at the moment. Could you please re-phrase that, I didn't understand.

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OK
#1124 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.129], 23/05/2001 12:18 GMT
Where you want your co-op starts, put info_player_coops.

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Palldjon...
#1125 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.41], 23/05/2001 17:45 GMT
Where you want your co-op starts, put info_player_coops.

That's the enitity entitled "info_player_coop" in the plural Cool

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Hmm, No Title
#1126 Posted by Jimbo [164.106.40.96], 23/05/2001 19:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1122
OK thanks,
I'll look into that when i get home.

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Further Explanation
#1127 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 23/05/2001 22:58 GMT
Just to belabour the point:

X X X X

0

X = info_player_coop
0 = info_player_start

In coop games, only X's will be used, and not the 0, unless all the X's have been taken (maybe).

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Dammit
#1128 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 23/05/2001 22:59 GMT
it removed my spaces!!!

X---X---X---X
-------------
------0------

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Hmmm
#1129 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 23/05/2001 22:59 GMT
anyone know a good fixed width font?

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Hey Look!
#1130 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 23/05/2001 22:59 GMT
That's three posts in a row!

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Oh Shit
#1131 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 23/05/2001 23:00 GMT
Hang on, no, that makes four....

...and this makes 5!

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OK...
#1132 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 24/05/2001 00:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1127
NOW I've got it. Your a champ Lieutenant.

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*smbazz*
#1133 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.84], 24/05/2001 01:04 GMT , Refers to Post #1129
How 'bout "Spaceage Round", from the boys at House Industries? Just read an article about them in Juxtapoz, and they kill.

And the font's neat, too =)

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Hehe
#1134 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.84], 24/05/2001 01:04 GMT
www.houseindustries.com

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Map_map_texinfo Error
#1135 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.52], 24/05/2001 03:01 GMT
************ ERROR ************
numtexinfo == MAX_MAP_TEXINFO



I am reasonably positive that a quake map can have a maximum of 2 megabytes of texture data in the bsp. Upon a successful compile, qbsp will spit out the amount of entdata and visdata, along with texdata or somesuch, all in bytes. If that texdata number surpasses 2 megs, well then you're out of luck. Shrink a few textures, consolidate your texture usage, etc.

I just hit this error today, as I plough ahead on a massive Rune-textured city, clothed in those massive Rune textures. ;) I'll need to shrink a few, methinks.

[Reply]


Hey Seth...
#1136 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 25/05/2001 06:19 GMT , Refers to Post #1121
did you get some help on that prob? I have a notion as to what might be going on if you heven't had a response yet. Beer

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I Hope So
#1137 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.211], 25/05/2001 09:24 GMT
I looked at his .rmf, and according to WC there's an "invalid solid structure", which means some heavy vertex amnipulation went for the worst. I'd recommend at least a backup version you could mebbe diddle with, Seth.

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Re My Prob
#1138 Posted by Seth [213.1.139.159], 26/05/2001 01:30 GMT , Refers to Post #1137
yeah i popped into #tf and got some help in there... seems i b0rk3d up a brush somehow... just exported to .map and reimported... cheers tho biff/palldjon Smile

[Reply]


Maths !!!!NO!!!!
#1139 Posted by DaZ [213.1.93.85], 26/05/2001 17:57 GMT
Ok, I have a 64x64x64 curve with 8 segments in Q1, and I want the textures to curve with the brush (instead of going strait up Smile) but I just cant get it to look right.

Could someone help a very frustrated man out and tell me how much I should rotate the texture on each segment of the curve PLEASE

[Reply]


DaZ...
#1140 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.141.179], 27/05/2001 00:40 GMT
Firstly, I'd highly recommened using 7 segments in curves instead of 8, as no-one notices the difference in game. Then, rotation values are simple: 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90 (is that 7 or 5?)

Hope this helps.

[Reply]


F33r M¥ 1337 M4th Sk1llz
#1141 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.66], 27/05/2001 00:59 GMT
I don't know Xenon, but what I DO know is that if DaZ bases his curve off of the holy 0:2 2:4 4:2 2:0 aspect ratio (subset of the Most Holy 12 sided cylinder) then the rotation values will always be 0, 90, 27, 64, -27, or -64 (positive or negative depends on how the curve is oriented).

DaZ, post a picture of the non-cooperative curve, then I'll have a better idea if I'm being any help here or not.

Oh wait... is the curve a 0:2 1:4 2:4 3:3 4:2 4:1 2:0 ratio? If so, then

A) the ratios should be very similar to the above, but with +-13.5 and +-77.5 on the 1:4 and the 4:1. I *think*.

B) that's way to high-res for 64*64*64. 256*256*256 would be a bare minimum for that much detail.

Confused yet? Smile

Or just use a flat noise texture...

[Reply]


Hmm
#1142 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.193.187], 27/05/2001 08:06 GMT
That's off the Most Holy 16 sided cylinder Grahf =)

Personally I always use 3 sides per 90 degrees, ie, 1:4 3:3 4:1

[Reply]


Oh FUCK.
#1143 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.64], 27/05/2001 15:06 GMT
Has anyone had the thing where you turn around a corner or something in a q1 map, and all of the sudden you're ninety yards away from the rest of the map in the Grey Void, with a collection of baddies from the area you had "meant" to go to? Hmm?

More importantly, is this necessarily my fault? Say it ain't so.

[Reply]


Right.......
#1144 Posted by DaZ [213.122.88.133], 27/05/2001 15:44 GMT
I'll go try that then Smile

if I go all bodged again then I'll post a screenie... Thanks all

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1145 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.49], 27/05/2001 15:59 GMT
grindspire: yes, but I don't think the textures align quite as easily to that.

biff: no. You mean a trigger_teleport massively misfired, and sent you and a bunch of monsters into the void? Or is there just a big hole in your map?

Either way, make it a major plot element in your map!

j/k

[Reply]


Grahf
#1146 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.161], 27/05/2001 16:27 GMT , Refers to Post #1145
<q?You mean a trigger_teleport massively misfired, and sent you and a bunch of monsters into the void? Or is there just a big hole in your map?

Naw -- everything should be hunky-dory, here. I'm thinking it might be too many baddies (entities) in the area (five in practically one place), or something -- I dunno, tho. Arrgh.

[Reply]


WTF?
#1147 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.161], 27/05/2001 16:28 GMT
Why am I posting in Times New Roman?

[Reply]


Oh -- Silly Me.
#1148 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.161], 27/05/2001 16:31 GMT
You mean a trigger_teleport massively misfired, and sent you and a bunch of monsters into the void? Or is there just a big hole in your map?

As usual, Biff fucked up with his code.

[Reply]


Erm...
#1149 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 28/05/2001 19:27 GMT
I'm pretty sure it's just Biffs map that extends out over the 4096 unit border. Passing over that borde wil place you on the other side on the map, for you to see the whole spectacle from afar...

[Reply]


Argh.
#1150 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.46], 28/05/2001 21:14 GMT , Refers to Post #1149
That's what Biff was afraid of. It might be easily amended, but a lot of brushwork nonetheless...

[Reply]


HELP!
#1151 Posted by Dimebag [24.4.252.129], 28/05/2001 21:29 GMT
I need to see my custom maps in the single player setup screen. I used to be able to do this, but I formatted and lost it. It was a .pk3 that let me do this. Anyone know where I can find this?

[Reply]


Biff Is A Doofus.
#1152 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.31], 28/05/2001 21:41 GMT
Biff only had to move the map -- and all is well. Biff breathes a sigh of relief -- and discontinues speaking of himself in the third person.

[Reply]


Dimebag
#1153 Posted by ^ian [63.62.170.182], 29/05/2001 05:24 GMT , Refers to Post #1151
To get the maps to show up in the skirmish view(if I am understading you correctly..)you need a .arena file for each map..

you might want to search on the quake3world.com levelediting forums...since almost every question about q3 editing has been asked there already.

[Reply]


Damn...
#1154 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 29/05/2001 08:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1152
I wanted to be Lord God King Bufu.

Thanx Biff, report arrived safely.

[Reply]


Hehe
#1155 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.198], 29/05/2001 09:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1154
Oh yeah -- that title goes to CZG (big surprise, huh?)=)

[Reply]


Hæ?
#1156 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 29/05/2001 17:57 GMT
Lord God King Bufu? WTF?!

[Reply]


Hehe
#1157 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.173], 29/05/2001 22:56 GMT , Refers to Post #1156
Don't worry about it. Like all things, it will pass =)

[Reply]


Maximum Size?
#1158 Posted by Tronyn(acc2) [24.66.252.239], 30/05/2001 22:57 GMT
Is 2800 brushes too big for Quake? IT WOULD SEEM LIKE IT.

Seriously though, how big can wqbsp handle, because I cannot get a 2800 brush map compiled.

Tronyn

[Reply]


I'm Not Sure But....
#1159 Posted by Jaj [62.83.11.232], 30/05/2001 23:17 GMT , Refers to Post #1158
.... i think wqbsp165 can handle up to 8192 brushes.

[Reply]


Doom3 Thing For A Map
#1160 Posted by neomatrix [24.128.46.69], 31/05/2001 02:24 GMT
I just looked at the Doom 3 movie again and thought it would be 1337 to put a lift like the one that corkscrews down and sets out a bridge in a quake 1 or 3 map. It might need alot of extra QuakeC code to work.

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I Wanna MAP!
#1161 Posted by Kreator [194.17.220.2], 31/05/2001 09:34 GMT
Damn, have my teory-driverlicence test in a week. Don't have to do do anything else but to studie. Well once I'll get my driver licence in like one to four munths it will be worth it.

[Reply]


Jaj...
#1162 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.75.76], 31/05/2001 17:32 GMT
.... i think wqbsp165 can handle up to 8192 brushes.

8192? I think you're getting confused with the maximum boundary limits Quake can handle.

[Reply]


Stuff
#1163 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 31/05/2001 18:20 GMT
WQbsp can handle way more than 2800 brushes, apsp1 had 5000+-500 iirc. (Though I'm not sure if than used Wqbsp. Oh well, czg07b had 4400 or something, that compiled.)

The corkscrewing lift from the doom3 vid is the source for a lot of inspiration. Though it would be wrong to make a map and QC for it and it only. Though making a map that it fits in, that's a whole other story. Extra QC? Hipnotic can do it if you're clever...

[Reply]


Question
#1164 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.227], 31/05/2001 19:25 GMT
are there any editors one of you guys could point me to that aren't as shitty as worldcraft is with regards to rotating textures. i have alot of angles in my sp map and i'm trying not to have to use -alternateaxis as it messes up stuff that already looks fine in game. anything that doesn't have the wc-axis problem would be idea, as all i'd be doing is loading my .map file and fixing textures before final compile probably (note: this is not to say final compile is anywhere near completion)

[Reply]


Ray
#1165 Posted by Grahf [209.145.79.10], 31/05/2001 20:55 GMT
Try Radiant or Quark (maybe Tread3d too).

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Xenon
#1166 Posted by Jaj [62.83.138.202], 31/05/2001 22:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1162
Oh, well... the number coincides with the limits.Yay!
But i was referring to the MAX_MAP_BRUSHES wqbsp was able to handle...
oh and it can handle that number since version 1.50 or so, not sure :)

[Reply]


Ok...
#1167 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.63], 02/06/2001 04:15 GMT
so now my map (q1sp) crashes glquake.exe upon loading. invalid page fault. anyone seen this before? all i had changed from a previous compile is a few textures replaces, maybe a few brushes, but nothing drastic at all. runs winquake fine, runs tomazquake fine, crashes in glquake and nehahra.exe. only about 1mb texture info (loaded and exported as .wad in texmex) is in the .bsp, the map is about 2200 brushes, has large holes in it, and compiles fine using alverson's wqbsp. no light or vis run, just fullbrite .bsp, and crash.

argh. things like this really make me want to stop working on this damn map. Frown

also: i loaded the .map, saved as .rmf, saved as .map, same thing.

[Reply]


Err
#1168 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.63], 02/06/2001 04:35 GMT
spoke too soon.
nevermind, just messed with the same textures and recompiled (even though i'm 100% sure the .map file was identical than what it was before) and it runs ok now. i do have a feeling i haven't seen the end of these such errors.

bah

[Reply]


*sigh*
#1169 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.206.194], 02/06/2001 04:39 GMT
Ain't mapping FUN?

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Maximum
#1170 Posted by Tronyn(acc2) [24.66.252.239], 02/06/2001 06:19 GMT
Yes but you're CZG, maybe YOUR wbqsp can compile maps like czg07b... hehe.

Seriously though, my system ain't the greatest, so 3000 brushes is my realistic if not technical limit. Anyhow, here's the series of fun phrases that wQbsp currently likes to give me:


2797 brushes
18211 faces

'************ERROR**************
numbrushplanes == MAX_MAP_PLANES'

and:

1059 brushes
7027 faces

'splitface: numpoints > MAXEDGES'

Oh and while we're at it, anyone have any guesses as to what would cause Quake, upon loading the map (it is in the map for 0-10 seconds), to kick the player into DOS with this error:

"General Protection Fault at eip=00030774
eax=ffffffff ebx=00813c9c ecx=000c0d20 edx=0076b4c4 esi=00000008 edi=000000e0
ebp=00813c9c esp=000ea250 cs=00af ds=00b7 es=00b7 fs=00d7 gs=00d7 ss=00b7
Call frame traceback EIPs:
0x00030774
0x00000004

C:\quake>"

Yes, mapping is FUN.

Tronyn

[Reply]


General Protection Eats Lard.
#1171 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 02/06/2001 13:00 GMT
I struggled a whole fucking lot with that error when I first got Quake. It turned out to be that one of my RAM chips were b0rked. I got it replaced, and it worked fine. There might be something else to it too though...

All the other errors are stuff that noone bothers to know exactly what they mean, they just fix them somehow.
Try isolating the bug by exporting half the map, compile; if still buggy: export half of that map and compile; if not buggy: export half of other half of map, continue until you've narrowed it down to the brush(es) that causes your headache.
If the error only occurs when the entire map is exported, there is obviously somethng wrong with the size/complexity of the map, or some brushes intersecting in an awkward way...
Try the best you can.

[Reply]


Tronyn:
#1172 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.91.102], 02/06/2001 14:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1170
from the quakelab problems and solutions page here:

You have too many faces on a single brush. The normal QBSP released by id has a limit of 16 faces per brush, which makes objects like spheres very difficult to create. However, there are several versions of QBSP (like QBSP256b), for which this limit is much higher. These versions should also be just as fast and take no more memory than the original.



invalid page fault is usually a memory error, used to get those all the time when i would try to load big sp or dm maps on my old cyrix100 with 2meg vid card.

[Reply]


16 Faces A Brush?
#1173 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.199.181], 02/06/2001 14:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1172
Hmm -- learn something every day around here...

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16 Faces/brush?
#1174 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 02/06/2001 18:25 GMT
Biotoxin had as many as 34 iirc...

Now count the number of faces you'd need to make a cheese.

(If this gets doubleposted, I suck)

[Reply]


MAX_MAP_PLANES
#1175 Posted by Gilt [154.11.172.187], 02/06/2001 19:18 GMT , Refers to Post #1170
Do you have a leak in your map?

I find that if qbsp is able to take away all the planes that shouldn't be seen in game (ie:touching the void) the amount of planes in your map decreases a lot.

[Reply]


Uh
#1176 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.178], 02/06/2001 20:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1175
Doesn't it always do that?

[Reply]


Maximums...
#1177 Posted by Jaj [62.83.27.29], 03/06/2001 00:34 GMT
Seeing the error that says :numbrushplanes==MAX_MAP_PLANES , it could be referred to the number of faces, that is 18211 and wich is higher than the MAX_MAP_PLANES Wqbsp165 can handle and wich is 16384 (hey... i've read this, my memory is volatile :).
And the error that says splitface: numpoints > MAXEDGES , i don't know what could it be...
anyways here it goes another limits of Wqbsp165, i hope it could help:
MAX_HULL_POINTS 64
MAX_HULL_EDGES 128

Qbsp256c, has its limits enhanced too, but it doesn't especifies the numbers, also it supports more faced brushes...

But it could be that although the map had been compiled perfectly with these tools, it'd crash in the quake engine. (I've read this too hehe :)

[Reply]


Doesn't Qbsp Always Take Out Planes?
#1178 Posted by Gilt [154.11.95.166], 03/06/2001 13:50 GMT , Refers to Post #1176
I don't think so. But don't take my word on it.

Try compiling a map with a leak and without one, making sure you still have the same amount of brushes and stuff in your map, and then compare the amount of planes in the maps.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1179 Posted by Grahf [209.145.68.186], 05/06/2001 17:12 GMT
As long as we're talkin about random weird errors, anybody ever have a map that, when compiled, shows no leak errors, yet qbsp still performs a "FillOutside" and doesn't make a .prt? I'm worried that it's due to a skip brush on the outside of the map...

I'm using the mac port of Alexander Malmberg's Quest compilers, btw.

[Reply]


I've Had That
#1180 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.156], 05/06/2001 19:01 GMT
I've had that problem... it was due to lots of carving with cylinders.

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Someone Likes My Textures At Last!
#1181 Posted by Dilvish [172.131.58.249], 08/06/2001 13:14 GMT
Somebody's asked me to do levels for a TCF quake patch and I'd like to know if there's a mod that allows making walls and things explode in Quake.
If I ain't clear enough, just tell me.
Dilvish

[Reply]


Exlposive Shizzaz
#1182 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.37], 08/06/2001 15:52 GMT
Hipnotic has those entities, I cannot be arsed to dig up a download link for you though...

[Reply]


TFC
#1183 Posted by Dilvish [172.167.67.3], 08/06/2001 20:33 GMT
Maybe I should have begun by that: what is exactly TFC? And are there specific ways and method to map in this genre? If so, which?
Thanx
Dilvish

[Reply]


Team Fortress Classic.
#1184 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.204.186], 08/06/2001 21:19 GMT , Refers to Post #1183
Y'know -- all that "we've got the flag" stuff =)

[Reply]


I Really Shouldn't Say It....
#1185 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 09/06/2001 06:26 GMT , Refers to Post #1184
I shouldn't say it....it's horrible....but it fits......it burns my eyes to read it anymore though...ack I can't resist...all your base are belong to us...that's basically what tf is...

Tron

[Reply]


All Right, You've Won
#1186 Posted by Dilvish [172.149.95.186], 09/06/2001 06:51 GMT , Refers to Post #1185
The brooms and cleaning things are in the closet left of the entrance. Do use them or my wife will be very unhappy that I've let my base into such untidy hands!
Thanx
Dilvish

[Reply]


House Textures?
#1187 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.31], 09/06/2001 09:30 GMT
Well, anyone got any house/club/city textures anywhere? You know, like Duke Nukem 3D (God bless!) or similar.

[Reply]


Topic?
#1188 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.31], 09/06/2001 09:32 GMT
For Q3 that is... Wohoo! End of school!!! Now I just have to go up earlier and work all summer. =(=(

[Reply]


Get Ikurret...
#1189 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.62.73], 09/06/2001 17:47 GMT , Refers to Post #1181
included in the ikturret.zip is a file called
xwall.qc you make a func_xwall and give it
health and it explodes when you shoot it.
heres a link from somewhere.

cut-the-brown-wire.zule.com/fenrir/ikturret.zip

also try at www.planetquake.com/ikq

I tried it once and its Very easy to use.
-Jimbo

[Reply]


Q1DM - BETA Testers Wanted!
#1190 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.62.73], 09/06/2001 17:59 GMT
I need some help testing my Map,
Cobalt Cathexis.

If you want to help me:
1. download the beta [CLICK] (251k)
2. Email me what you think (Be Specific).
3. Thanks.

There are some screenies here.

-Jimbo

[Reply]


Oops Borked The Links
#1191 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.62.73], 09/06/2001 18:01 GMT , Refers to Post #1190
Can some kind moderator fix those?

[CLICK]
Screenies.

[Reply]


ARGH!! Mucho Borkage
#1192 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.62.73], 09/06/2001 18:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1191
Well try and cut-n-paste those
http://www.geocities.com/jimbos_mappage/cathexisB1.zip
http://www.geocities.com/jimbos_mappage/

[Reply]


A Mod Might Want To Fix That Link...
#1193 Posted by Tron [203.12.165.8], 09/06/2001 18:04 GMT
you mispelled geocities in the link. 8) Strangely though, it takes you to a yahoo/geocities page basically telling you "That's not how you spell geocities, spell it like this instead" Why they don't just auto recdirect you is a mystery...

Tron

p.s. nice pics btw.

[Reply]


Ikturret
#1194 Posted by Dilvish [172.159.146.142], 10/06/2001 05:37 GMT , Refers to Post #1189
There seems to be something bOrked in the kingdom of Fileplanet, as i've never been able to d/l ikturret.zip; and it's not the first time, either.
Me goes away crying against totally non-explosive walls. Sigh.
Dilvish

[Reply]


...
#1195 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.131.178], 10/06/2001 10:59 GMT
There seems to be something bOrked in the kingdom of Fileplanet

MY GOD!!! HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!!!

[Reply]


Ikturret
#1196 Posted by mute [193.180.245.90], 10/06/2001 11:33 GMT
http://freshmeat.netc.pt/pub/planetquake/ikq/
if this link doesnt work for you, go to google and search....

[Reply]


Compilation Fun Part II
#1197 Posted by Tronyn (2) [24.66.252.239], 13/06/2001 22:26 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys, a lot of it has helped. I've also gotten a hold of Qbsp256c, which I figured would solve the remaining problems, however, it simply complains that it cannot open any of the wadfiles specified by the .map.

As well, the enigmatic and much-beloved General Protection Fault does persist. Description follows:

If the size of the map is decreased signifigantly, by 200-300 brushes, the error no longer occurs, though for some odd reason it takes 3-4 times the time to compile with less brushes.

The bloody strange thing is that the map is only 2100 brushes, and it ran fine immediately prior to pasting on the end section of about 250 brushes. Now, that section compiles and runs fine by itself, and the other portion of the map compiles and runs fine by itself, but both together won't run in Quake. HOWEVER both together if, say, the start area is deleted, will run fine in Quake. But it's only 2100 damned brushes and not even all that complex.

I've checked in several editors for errors of all sorts, I especially thought bad brushes to be suspect - to no avail. There aren't any leaks either so that's out. This is really an odd occurence, it just doesn't make any sense.

Any help appreciated...

[Reply]


All I Can Say Is
#1198 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.197.152], 13/06/2001 23:09 GMT , Refers to Post #1197
Make sure the map isn't hanging over the edge of the overall grid =)

[Reply]


Hehehe
#1199 Posted by DaZ [62.7.35.168], 14/06/2001 02:03 GMT
Nice Biff Smile

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Tronyn's Not The Only One
#1200 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.111.201], 14/06/2001 09:10 GMT
I just had to drop the nice intermission scene (basically a box with a feature on one wall) for a map because it gave QBSP the shits - before, it'd compile in about half an hour, but then... two hours plus of nonstop grinding.

Had to rewrite the intermission text as well. Phooey!

Mind you, I have a fair chunk of areas with rough Schmerm-style rock walls, so the brush count's 2200+. Probably just went clean over QBSP's limits...

[Reply]


.pak
#1201 Posted by Kell [213.120.146.110], 14/06/2001 11:53 GMT
How do I bind levels, sounds and skins into a .pak file for Quake 1?

[Reply]


Kell
#1202 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.126], 14/06/2001 12:48 GMT
Get adquedit. Put all the stuff you want into one directory and select 'create pak' from the file menu.

[Reply]


Another Hypothesis...
#1203 Posted by Jaj [62.83.7.143], 14/06/2001 23:41 GMT , Refers to Post #1197
Mmm... i'm not sure but, it seems the limit brushes isn't the problem, but what about the faces limit?, if the map has a lot of multifaced brushes (a supercurved or a very detailed map :), then the face limit could be the "guilty" ... i can't think of anything else for now...

[Reply]


Where Is Everyone?
#1204 Posted by Kreator [62.66.9.84], 15/06/2001 17:53 GMT
Hell, is't only 19:50 on this sonny friday evening. Why aren't anyone on my ICQlist online? =)=)

Well, work starts at 07:00 tomorrow, gonna go to bed in 2Hs. Why is it so hard to find the time I need to do some serious mapping?Night all!

[Reply]


Compilable Area...
#1205 Posted by necros [152.163.207.137], 17/06/2001 21:02 GMT
What are the max limits of room that you can compile? and do different compilers change this, or is it something within the quake engin?

just wondering... cause i noticed that around 1800 to 2000 away from the origin will go off the area, but i'm not sure about it...

[Reply]


Necros
#1206 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 17/06/2001 21:05 GMT
Well, imagine a hollow cube 8192cubed around the origin, If you go outside that area then it wont vis and the map'll screw up.

[Reply]


So...
#1207 Posted by necros [152.163.194.137], 18/06/2001 00:14 GMT
say +4000 or -4000 away from the origin?

i dunno, cause for me, 2000 seems to be the limit... i'll have to try that out...

does anyone know why it's that size?

[Reply]


D-Day: Normandy
#1208 Posted by syon [63.254.26.202], 18/06/2001 00:51 GMT
D-Day: Normandy, a Q2 Multiplayer mod based on the Second World War.

Players & freelance mappers wanted!


http://www.planetquake.com/dday

Click here for more...

It's 4096
#1209 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.53], 18/06/2001 04:11 GMT
As I understood it, the max boundaries were 4096*4096*4096. Though it could be 2048 for certain compilers...

Q3TA raises that to 128k*128k*128k... One the most fun things to do in GTKRadiant is to zoom ALL the way out, and prove that your map is still flea sized.

[Reply]


CTF
#1210 Posted by Dilvish [172.191.162.93], 18/06/2001 20:10 GMT
I'm working with someone who is making a mod for CTF Quake, and he asked me to map for him. As i'm a complete newbie in this genre, could some of you who mapped for CTF give me some advice about - well, how the map should be (SP or Dm or something else). I suppose it's a multiplayer game, so I have to install playerstarts, so how many, where, well you see the kind of advice I'm asking for.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx
Dilvish

[Reply]


Yeah, It's
#1211 Posted by necros [172.175.0.85], 18/06/2001 21:23 GMT
4096^3 because, it's 2048 away from the origin (middle), so that's why i can never build more than 2000 away from the origin! thx... that cleared things up a lot. =)

[Reply]


Necros???
#1212 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.75.173], 18/06/2001 22:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1211
That cant be right. In fact, I know it isn't, I've built twice that distance away from the origin before having parts of the map cut off... you are on about q1 aren't you?

[Reply]


Q1
#1213 Posted by necros [205.188.199.13], 19/06/2001 00:09 GMT
yes, i automatically assumed everyone was refering to q1 (i keep forgetting about those other quakes... Tongue)

I know the Q2 boundaries a much larger, and q3 is just insane (you can build, and build, and build...) I'd like to see an map for q3 which spans the entire compilable space... whoa... Smile

[Reply]


Wqbsp Error....
#1214 Posted by necros [152.163.213.43], 19/06/2001 03:36 GMT
ok, it's 11:30 pm right now, and i'm tired...
anyway, i just combined two sections of my map together into one file, but when i tried to compile the sucker, wqbsp crashed right after doing the models with
something like
"map_max_mip_tex" i forget the exact words...

anyway, if anyone knows what the hell this is... i suspect it has something to do with to many textures? i hope not...

i compiled with WQBSP, on an AMD Athlon computer... with lots of RAM 256, so i'm not running out... um... there is only 1560 something brushes... anyway, any help would be appreciated...
thx.

[Reply]


Ah, Here Is The Exact Error
#1215 Posted by necros [152.163.213.43], 19/06/2001 03:39 GMT
(off of Quakelab)

--- FinishBSPfile ---
WriteBSPfile: map.bsp
Added 0 texture frames
********ERROR********
Textures exceeded MAX_MAP_MIPTEX

but there is no solution!!! Sad

[Reply]


Necros
#1216 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.86], 19/06/2001 04:08 GMT
Your machine isn't the prob. The map is. A BSP file cannot have more than 2 megs (2048 kbytes) of textures in it. I hit this problem while using a bunch of 256*256 textures in a map once. (given the diverse nature of your map, I was afraid of this)

Solutions:

- consolidate your texture usage and themes.
- Shrink some textures. The Q3 ones were designed to be viewed at half size anyway (that's why the q3 map editors shrink all their textures by 1/2 by default).

[Reply]


Two Questions
#1217 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 19/06/2001 20:35 GMT
1. What causes "GL_LoadTexture: Cache mismatch"-error and how to fix it? If I start Quake directly in my map (i.e. quake +map mymap) I don't get the error.

2. How does the WorldCraft "replace texture" thing work? I tried selecting the two textures and pressed OK, but nothing happened. I tried it several times with no luck. I have WC 1.6a (shareware version).

Thanks in advance :)

[Reply]


Hanz
#1218 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.236.25], 19/06/2001 20:49 GMT
1. When a map has a texture with the same name as one in a previous map. Change the name of the texture to something more obscure :)

2. Dunno, don't use WC.

[Reply]


Thx Grahf...
#1219 Posted by necros [152.163.194.137], 19/06/2001 20:55 GMT
...
Anyone know why the 2mb limit it there?

[Reply]


Glassman
#1220 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 19/06/2001 21:24 GMT
Thanks for the reply, now I know what texture causes the error. It's called "clip". But I thought that clip texture always has to be called "clip" or otherwise it'll show up as an ordinary texture in the game. So how can I fix it? :/

[Reply]


Necros
#1221 Posted by Grahf [209.145.71.66], 19/06/2001 22:07 GMT
You could probably raise it easily by modifying one or two lines in the QBSP source code, but whether the maps would still load into Quake is anybody's guess.

[Reply]


Hanz
#1222 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.207.186], 19/06/2001 22:45 GMT , Refers to Post #1217
Make sure you don't have any brushes selected when trying tex replace -- it screws it up for some reason =)

[Reply]


Necros
#1223 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 19/06/2001 22:45 GMT
I think the limit could be there just to prevent mappers from using too many/big textures. When Quake came out, many had only 8-16 mb of ram and ID wanted the game to work with most computers (dos quake allocates 8 megabytes by default). They had no idea ppl would be making maps for the game several years later when everyone has at least 128 mb ram. This is just a wild quess though :)

[Reply]


Doesn't Work In Wcsw
#1224 Posted by Tron [203.38.138.22], 19/06/2001 23:38 GMT , Refers to Post #1217
Hanz: You need to full version of worldcraft to use the replace textures button.

Tron

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Thx Hanz
#1225 Posted by necros [152.163.201.142], 20/06/2001 00:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1223
ok, well it looks like i'll have to split the sucker up... ugh...

it'll make sense tho, since the second part has a lot of tech-y stuff in it...

well, thx....


Oh, and Grahf: There's no way i'm touching the qbsp source code... (besides the fact that i don't have a clue when it comes to C/C++) it'll probably come back and bite me on the ass sometime or another... Yay!

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Re: GL_LoadTexture: Cache Mismatch
#1226 Posted by Seth [62.7.7.25], 20/06/2001 01:50 GMT
necros: iirc this is caused when you have 2 textures in different maps with the same name that are different sizes. so if its a clip tex, as long as its the same size as the default id one it should b ok, unless u play someone elses map with a funny sized 1, in which case its their fault! Tongue

[Reply]


Yup..clip
#1227 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.236.25], 20/06/2001 05:51 GMT
should always be 64x64.

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R_speeds In Q3
#1228 Posted by H-Hour [216.17.140.47], 20/06/2001 09:56 GMT
Hey. As I've only ever done mapping for Q2(and some experiments with Q1 way back), I was wondering what are general r_speeds in Q3? Just curious how much room you guys have to work with...

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R_speeds
#1229 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 20/06/2001 11:27 GMT
I aim to mostly have 5-6000 although the theoretical maximum you should allow yourself is 8000 with no items. For Team Arena it's a bit higher, and around 10,000 is not uncommon in TA maps. (There are places with much, much worse r_speeds than that in some TA maps, notably in mpterra1, but Paul Jaquays has said on Quake3world forums that he was somewhat unhappy with this)

If your design has higher r_speeds than 8000 you should say it's a high-spec map it on your download pages and read me, and do your best to ensure anywhere that reviews it does too.

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Ok Thanks
#1230 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 20/06/2001 15:12 GMT
My clip texture was 32x32..weird, cause I ripped it from somewhere :P. Anyway, now it works =)

[Reply]


A Couple Strange Things
#1231 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.252.239], 20/06/2001 22:52 GMT
The reason I've got so many unique errors isn't that I'm just error-prone, it's more because I've got about 35 BSPs in the works right now so it's proportionate ;)

Here's a couple of my current erorrs:

Artifacts not appearing in Quake. Oh look, Quad damage, Pentagram, even biosuits, but for some reason they don't show up in Quake. Grr.

'Too many static entities' upon attempting to load a map in Quake. I believe that static entities means models that just sit there, and the only thing like that in this map is torches/flames. Is that the case, and if so, can I just change a bunch of flames to invisible lights to fix it?

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Tronyn:
#1232 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 20/06/2001 23:46 GMT
The second problem is caused by the use of walltorches, ambient sounds, anything that in the QC uses the makestatic() function as part of its declaration. You should be able to hack this in the QC quite simply by commenting out this line and replacing it with 'self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE'. Or you could do what you suggest by removing some of the visible lights.

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Lieutenant...
#1233 Posted by necros [205.188.192.113], 21/06/2001 00:33 GMT
can you do the Movetype_None trick on torches? or only ambient sounds...

but won't that make you run out of edicts?

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...
#1234 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.152], 21/06/2001 02:06 GMT
wots this Rail-thingy do? ;)

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LTH!
#1235 Posted by DaZ [62.7.22.145], 21/06/2001 02:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1232
Does that "Too many static entities" error include func_illusionary brush models?

Oh and does anyone know the name you need to give brushes to make them detail brushes for the supporting compiler? I cant find the damn readme :/

Thanks in advance to anyone that knows...

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Re: A Couple Strange Things
#1236 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112], 21/06/2001 04:41 GMT , Refers to Post #1231
Artifacts not appearing in Quake. Oh look, Quad damage, Pentagram, even biosuits, but for some reason they don't show up in Quake. Grr.

Try placing them a little higher above the ground. I saw a couple of instances where your powerups were stuck in the ground (I think it was only 16 units down or so) when I took over TOUM. It was obvious in my editor (BSP), but I guess worldcraft uses a different set of entity defs.

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Item Movement...
#1237 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 21/06/2001 06:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1236
Hey Tyrann, it took me a little while to work out that situating items 4 units above the "ground" solved a lot of item drop out probs. However, what I did notice with WC was that items such as health and ammo "move" 16 units north and east in the .bsp as opposed to the .rmf

Biosuits and armour don't "move". Is this movement standard for some items?

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Hmm
#1238 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.205.84], 21/06/2001 09:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1237
Biosuits and armor don't rotate, do they? At least I dont think they do...

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Item Movement
#1239 Posted by Kell [213.120.145.200], 21/06/2001 09:21 GMT
Worldcraft has a well-known habit of screwing the placement of items: ammo and health only, though. You have to set the grid size to 16 units to get the items in place. In spite of the entity 'crosshair' being off, the colored boxes show the correct final position for the ammo/health...except for the 5 rockets box, which I think is just totally buggered :(
When placing powerups in Worldcraft, I usually place it 32 units above the ground, in line with the middle of the playerbox; it automatically drops the correct distance to the ground when the level is spawned.

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Q1 Mapping Help
#1240 Posted by Dazza [212.28.12.101], 21/06/2001 10:59 GMT
I have just started looking at mapping for Q1, I am using BSP 0.93b and working through the tutorials for that program. I have created the room, compiled it in bsp 0.93, but when i try to run it in Quake I get a 'could'nt spawn server' error. I have looked at the troubleshooting but no help there. I am assuming from the documentation that the program has QBSP, light and vis included, is this the case. Any help, suggestions would be greatly apreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Info_player_start
#1241 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 21/06/2001 12:11 GMT
Do you have a info_player_start entity in the room?

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Or
#1242 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 21/06/2001 12:15 GMT
could be that the bsp name is longer than 8 characters & you're trying to run it in software quake.

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Item Troubles
#1243 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.148], 21/06/2001 13:04 GMT
Worldcraft *has* buggered the placement on *all* .bsp style items. The problem is that the models' origins are not in the centre of the object; rather, they are in the bottom left corner, meaning that as someone mentioned, you have to offset your positioning by 16 units in all 3 dimensions.

On the powerups front: WC assigns a very small bounding box for the powerups but actually they have the same size bbox as the player / armour.

Daz: func_illusionaries do indeed count as statics, although bizarrely func_walls do not.

Necros: yes indeed it does work on torches.

On the point of increasing the total number of edicts; i dont think this is the case, all those torches count as edicts - they are after all, entities with a visible model.

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Re: Q1 Mapping Help
#1244 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.115], 21/06/2001 14:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1240
I am assuming from the documentation that the program has QBSP, light and vis included, is this the case.

No, you'll need to download them seperately. I suggest you try these programs:

TreeQBSP
TyrLite
RVis+

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WorldCraft Woes
#1245 Posted by Lunaran [64.12.102.151], 21/06/2001 15:14 GMT
why is everyone still whining about offset items? Just open the FGD and fix the two bounding box values on anything that breaks.

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If Anyone Cares.
#1246 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 21/06/2001 17:51 GMT
I'll be home in three days and I'll upload a FGD for you to use in Worldcraft that has all bounding boxes (except for the rockets, I can never figure those out!) and all possible keys you can set on an entity.

Lth: func_illusionaries are static because there is nothing you can do to them. You can't kill them, you can't change textures on them, you woun't clip on them, nothing. Func_walls however, need to be non static so you can do thse things. If you hax0r the czg07 QC, you'll see I made a func_illusionary2 entity that wasn't static, because I needed to kill one in the endgame map. (That never was released.)

Dazza: from the wya you said your error was 'cannot spawn server', It sounds like bsp is trying to run quake without any mapname. When I first got quake, someone told me you could bring up a map if you typed 'map' in the console, (I thought like an overhead map, ala Doom or DN3D,) but if you just type map in the console you get that cannot spawn server error.

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Typos Galore!
#1247 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 21/06/2001 17:54 GMT
Sorry, being here causes the brain to rot.
What I was trying to say was that my fgd has all the correct bounding boxes, ...

I guess most people understood that anyway though...

the Pig says p0rk.

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Tyrann
#1248 Posted by Dilvish [172.189.19.31], 21/06/2001 19:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1244
TyrLite, I know, as I use it and like it a lot (pretty good work, man!), but the other 2 are unknown to me. What more do they add to the previous QBSP and RVis?

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Fixed It
#1249 Posted by DaZ [62.7.3.151], 21/06/2001 19:59 GMT
I had to many func_illusionaries in my map. I converted them all to detail brushes and compiled with a suporting compiler. But cheers for all your help.

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RVis+
#1250 Posted by necros [152.163.213.137], 21/06/2001 20:12 GMT
Simply adds a % counter telling you how far it's gone in the vising process. just really helps you guage how much more time it's going to take.

As for BSP compiles... i myself prefer WQBSP... it's never failed me yet! Smile

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Oh Sp00ge!
#1251 Posted by Biff_Debris [64.12.104.58], 21/06/2001 23:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1246
/me plans construction of monument to CZG...

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Wait...
#1252 Posted by necros [205.188.199.13], 21/06/2001 23:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1250
Use tree BSP, i just found out it gets rid of all those MAX_MAP_ errors, like MAX_MAP_MIP_TEX (!) Smile

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And...
#1253 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 22/06/2001 01:12 GMT , Refers to Post #1251
/me plans pilgrimage to same.

But not while Biff is there sp00ging, euwh!

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Quake 1 Respawn
#1254 Posted by Hodaly [62.64.191.187], 22/06/2001 19:41 GMT
hi there, I was just wondering if there is any way to make an entity respawn? that is make it so that once you pick up, say some shotgun shells, they re-apear (like they do in the re-arming rooms in TF). I know it's possible to do it with monsters by having a store of 'em, but the trouble is after a while the store runs out..

any help will be warmly welcomed :) btw: i'm using Qoole.

thanks guys!

-Have a nice day

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Quake 1 Respawn; The Terror
#1255 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 22/06/2001 19:51 GMT
I think you oughta hack the QC code for that. I managed to do it myself, so it wasn't that hard, somewhere in world.qc and items.qc I think...

You could make some funky setup in the map too, so you have a little hole in the floor that opens up and places a new set of ammo there when you pick it up, takes an uneconomic time of work though...

Notice how I didn't comment anything on what editor you were using, because just about NO entity work is editor specific. A lot of other people here would instantly submit an oneliner below stating something like 'Don't use Quoole' or 'WorldCraft suxx0rs' (If you were using WC). I don't get why people do that; all editors I have touched upon have the exact same entities to use, it's all for the same game. Having difficulties with an entity has nada to do with the editor. So shut yer pieholes! NoFlame

Why yes I am kinda pissy today. Flame

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Hehe
#1256 Posted by Biff_Debris [152.163.197.77], 23/06/2001 00:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1253
I'll try to clean up before you drop by, pall =)

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Movetype_none
#1257 Posted by necros0 [24.112.158.244], 23/06/2001 01:56 GMT
uh, a while back, someone mentioned changing the qc for the light entities to movetype_none, instead of makestatic()...

could someone give me an example of exactly how to do this?

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Sure!
#1258 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 23/06/2001 17:14 GMT
I haven't got the original QC here atm, so this will be off memory only, but it might work.
Open world.qc if I remember correctly, it might have been misc.qc but the light animation tables are in world.qc, so I think it's there.

Then find a line that should be something like
void() light =
{
something something something
};

Somewhere between those two {}'s, there should be a line that says makestatic{};.
Simply replace that with the line self.movetype == movetype_none.
There might be some more punctuation there, and some more brackets, but have a look at other entities to figure out the correct syntax.

Visit Nilbog this summer and see the world!

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When I Look At This Now
#1259 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 23/06/2001 17:18 GMT
It all seems horribly wrong... Someone please help this fellow so he isn't totally confoosled.

And btw: Whenever I hit submit on a post, I get to a page with a 302 warning/error that says
FOUND
The page has been moved here.

...with a link to the thread I posted in.
This isn't supposed to happen is it?

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CZG / Necros
#1260 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.189], 23/06/2001 18:51 GMT
The lights are in misc.qc I believe (for the walltorches / lights with models anyway). You have to type MOVETYPE_NONE in caps. Other than that, CZG is correct.

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Um... CZG/Lieutenant...
#1261 Posted by necros [152.163.207.43], 23/06/2001 23:43 GMT
Ok, I just consulted the QC Manual, and it says the proper syntax is:

self.movetype = MOVETYPE_NONE;

so, your both wrong!! Wink

thx anyway.

302 Error... that's definatly not supposed to happen... well, it hasn't happened to me anyway... Cool

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TomazQuake
#1262 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 24/06/2001 01:42 GMT
I've just d/l it because there seems to be lot of cool features in it, but is TomLite necessary to get colored lightings? I thought
TyrLite did that already, didn't it?

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Re: TomazQuake
#1263 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.113], 24/06/2001 02:11 GMT
...is TomLite necessary to get colored lightings? I thought TyrLite did that already, didn't it?

Yes, but TomLite is Tyrlite - it's just been modified to place the colored lightmaps in another file (a ".lit" file) outside the bsp. I'll probably incorporate the changes one of these days...

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TANK Tex
#1264 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 24/06/2001 02:13 GMT
Does anyone know where i can find a decent tank (or military vehicles) map object (pfb) for q3? of some tank textures?

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:(
#1265 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.69], 24/06/2001 02:15 GMT
sorry i meant "or some tank textures"

its late *yawn*

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I Wish You Would!
#1266 Posted by necros [205.188.192.137], 24/06/2001 15:27 GMT , Refers to Post #1263
since Tyrlite doesn't require 2 (!) lightings to get the colors right (hint hint) Wink

[Reply]


Some Help Please?
#1267 Posted by necros [205.188.192.137], 24/06/2001 15:32 GMT
Ok, well, I'm just wondering what are the common amount of Portal Leafs and NumPortals in a map with about 1800 brushes?

Currently, I have 6758 Portal Leafs and 20760 Numportals, with Previously said amount of brushes.
Since this is the first time i've ever done something of this size, I'm wondering if it's customary to have this high amount of portals... since i've had experiences where QBSP would create a portal file even though there was a leak, and vis ended up having to Vis the entire outside area... Tongue

anyway, back to work...

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Thanx, Tyr
#1268 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 24/06/2001 18:50 GMT
To Hell, Sidon! (This was our cultural message)

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Necros:
#1269 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.189], 24/06/2001 19:21 GMT
i didnt spot CZG's double equals sign... and what i meant was what you said.

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Some Help Please?
#1270 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 25/06/2001 05:15 GMT , Refers to Post #1267
Currently, I have 6758 Portal Leafs and 20760 Numportals, with Previously said amount of brushes. [~1800]

<assumption game="quake">

That sounds high to me, but it really depends on your build style. If your architecture has lots of sticky-outy-bits (mapper's technical term) then that can bring up the portal count very quickly. In my experience, my maps don't seem to hit 20000 portals until around the 4000 brush mark.

So either your architecture is not very vis-friendly, or there is some micro-leak weirdness going on.

</assumption>

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Necros...
#1271 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 25/06/2001 07:01 GMT , Refers to Post #1267
That sounds monstrously high: even with pillars and torch holders cutting up the bsp like crazy in pdbq_sp1 (~2000 brushes) I never got figures like that. Does the .pts file = > 0 ?

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Still Looking For A Tank
#1272 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.67], 25/06/2001 11:23 GMT
Does anyone know where i can find a decent tank (or military vehicles) map object for q3? or some tank textures?

[Reply]


Help!
#1273 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 25/06/2001 12:10 GMT
I have 1 wife, 3 children (1 genetically altered, and thats no joke), 6 cats, 12563982 fleas and more than two googolplex of acarians in my house.
Is that normal?
Assumption: this is in Real Life(TM).

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Afraid To Ask, But...
#1274 Posted by Biff_Debris [64.12.102.154], 25/06/2001 12:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1273
What's an acarian?

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Acarian
#1275 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 25/06/2001 17:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1274
It's a microscopic bugger that lives almost everywhere, and particularly in human homes, in the carpets, the mattresses, even on you! as they feed upon everything we inadvertently let down, such as tiny bits of skin and things like that. There are litterally billions of them in your bed and in your whole home and on yourself.
Don't you ever wash yourself? How dare you speak to me? I don't answer questions from walking zoological gardens.

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Tyrlite Update Feature!
#1276 Posted by DaZ [213.123.17.83], 25/06/2001 18:17 GMT , Refers to Post #1263
Tyrann, a nice new feature for Tyrlite would be a falloff for the sunlight. As atm surfaces not being hit by sunlight but in the same area are pitch black.

Could you make the light work spotlight style like Half-life's skylight? That way works nice cos then you can edit the falloff, angle etc...

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Half Life Q1 Or Q2
#1277 Posted by The Cream Enjin [195.92.67.65], 25/06/2001 21:57 GMT
Can some1 please sort this out. I say or have heard that half life runs on q1 engine technology but a friend of mine thinks that it maybe q2 becuase it was released after q2.
So is halflife q1 or q2?

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Hmm
#1278 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.123.19], 25/06/2001 22:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1277
Q1

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I Thought It Was Based On Q2 Engine...
#1279 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 25/06/2001 22:15 GMT
Am I wrong? I mean, engine modified from the q2 one...

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Both
#1280 Posted by GlassMan [213.121.124.27], 25/06/2001 22:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1277
Its q1 that they originally licenced but they had access to the updates to the code that id made as they made q2.

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Lun?
#1281 Posted by DaZ [62.7.106.177], 25/06/2001 22:37 GMT
I've gone up like 30 posts and cant see what your talking about in that above post. Please enlighten me Smile

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Nope
#1282 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.157], 25/06/2001 22:37 GMT
It's definitely Q1. HOWEVER, Valve licensed the Q2 engine too I think, and cross-pollinated some of the ideas as they were put into the Q2 engine. But it is based on good ole' Quake1

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I Seem To Remember
#1283 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 26/06/2001 01:27 GMT , Refers to Post #1277
that there were some bits and bobs of code that were pulled from Q2, but the majority is Q1 based . . .

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Hang On....
#1284 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.157], 26/06/2001 01:36 GMT
I think there's a glitch in the Matrix...

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Re: Tyrlite Update Feature!
#1285 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 26/06/2001 02:29 GMT , Refers to Post #1276
Could you make the light work spotlight style like Half-life's skylight? That way works nice cos then you can edit the falloff, angle etc...

Well I never mapped for Half-Life, but if it's something like the way Quake spotlights work, then yes, I have an idea of how it can be done. The tricky part will be making the thing run at a decent speed. The current algorithm makes sunlight pretty much "for free", in that it won't slow down compilation of your map noticably.

I'm planning to do a bit of work on TyrLite in the next few weeks where I can find some time, so I'll see what I can come up with. It does sound like a useful feature.

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HL = Q2 + Q1 + EVIL
#1286 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.14], 26/06/2001 06:06 GMT
HL is really an unholy combination of the two (I've heard 20% id code, 80% custom Valve code quoted). Very early versions of Half Life were pretty much entirely q1 based, though obviously q2 influences crept in later. The model code seems almost unchanged from q1 (same .mdl format, 8 bit skins), and all the rest is just whack.

[Reply]


Censored
#1287 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 26/06/2001 06:27 GMT
Post censored by moderator (GrindSpire).

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Nehahra (2)
#1288 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.33.192], 26/06/2001 06:33 GMT
Err... sorry, boys, the prior message belongs to "General Abuse". <Flush>

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Gl Quake Error
#1289 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 26/06/2001 12:43 GMT
please someone tell me how to fix this damn error when i try to load my map in gl quake. "sys_error: Alloc block:full"
the map loads in software and used to before today in gl quake. does any body know what this error means?

[Reply]


Yes I Do.
#1290 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 26/06/2001 14:16 GMT , Refers to Post #1289
It means you're allocating too little RAM. By default, Quake only allocates 8 megs, which in many cases is too little. I don't know how much RAM you've got, but I've got 64 megs and alllocate 56 of them. You may do this by adding to your quake command line (in the windows shortcut that is) the following stuff:
-heapsize 56000
...where you replace 56000 with the number of kilobytes you want Quake to use. (Yes I know that 56 Mb = 57344 Kb, but who gives a flying fuck...)

[Reply]


?
#1291 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 26/06/2001 14:47 GMT , Refers to Post #1290
um i just switched to the windows os how do u add a coommand line to the short cut?

[Reply]


!
#1292 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 26/06/2001 14:53 GMT
Right click on the shortcut and select properties. From there, select the second tab on the top (Shortcut), and in the Target field (I think that's what it's called in english windows) is where the command line is located. You can enter any additional parameters like -game, -heapsize, -width and -bpp right behind the GlQuake.exe bit...
So in the end, yours may loks like this:
D:\QUAKE\glquake.exe -width 512 -bpp 32 -heapsize 56000 +gl_flashblend 0 +map e2m10
That's what it's looking like for me atm...

[Reply]


Thanks But...
#1293 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 26/06/2001 15:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1292
it still wont work the target path is correct but i still get the alloc full error, but thanks for the help

[Reply]


Julian
#1294 Posted by Dilvish [172.190.51.13], 26/06/2001 16:40 GMT
The "heapsize" thingy is used with WinQuake. With GlQuake, you might try "-winmem XX", where XX is the number of megs you want to allow.
You'd get something like
D:\QUAKE\glquake.exe -width 512 -bpp 32 -winmem 56 +gl_flashblend 0 +map e2m10

[Reply]


No No No...
#1295 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.135.203], 26/06/2001 17:10 GMT
please someone tell me how to fix this damn error when i try to load my map in gl quake. "sys_error: Alloc block:full"


Sorry, but there's no way of fixing it actually. It's usually down to the original map design. If your map is very large, spacious and contains vast flat surfaces then this is probaly what is causing the error. It crops up only on particular maps, and in all GL-based engines, like panquake,tomazquake, and nehahra too. You'll just have to resort to winquake/dosquake.

And dilvish, it's the other way round... heapsize is for GL, winmem is for software...

[Reply]


Daz?
#1296 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.198.138], 26/06/2001 17:43 GMT , Refers to Post #1281
What post?

[Reply]


Oh
#1297 Posted by julian [24.25.176.51], 26/06/2001 17:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1295
i had that happen in a nother large map so that must be the problem, the map is to big. I did get it to run in gl quake but after deleting a few hills :)

[Reply]


Xenon
#1298 Posted by Dilvish [195.93.50.192], 26/06/2001 19:13 GMT
So heapsize works for GL and WinQuake?

[Reply]


Lun
#1299 Posted by DaZ [213.122.222.220], 26/06/2001 19:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1296
#852 in the screenshot thread.

[Reply]


What?
#1300 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.199.212], 27/06/2001 03:27 GMT
OH. I was responding to the screenshots from drannerz' latest map and managed to confuse you two. :) You only proceeded to confuse me further by posting about it HERE.

[Reply]


Wasted Time
#1301 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.23], 27/06/2001 03:46 GMT
I spent about three hours removing a sloppy brush section in INVEIN. I reworked two sprial staircases, replacing cylinders and steps containing detail as small as 4 units, with new, cleaner measurements of 16 units. Along with that, some 25 brushes were no longer needed. But upon compliling this new beauty, the r_speeds jumped from 700 to 1000.

so... huh?

[Reply]


Quake 3 Textures
#1302 Posted by julian [24.25.176.51], 27/06/2001 21:43 GMT
have any of u ever tried to convert quake 3 textures to quake 1?

[Reply]


Yes We Have
#1303 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 27/06/2001 23:37 GMT
some of them, especially the gothic ones, convert quite nicely...

[Reply]


Convert
#1304 Posted by julian [24.25.176.51], 28/06/2001 00:34 GMT
i also like to convert ut textures. i think they are good for castle/temple type things

[Reply]


Hmm
#1305 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 28/06/2001 01:21 GMT
or you might consider not converting them.

[Reply]


Why Not
#1306 Posted by Julian [24.25.177.219], 28/06/2001 03:57 GMT , Refers to Post #1305
they look a lot better than normal quake textures so why not.

[Reply]


Why Not
#1307 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 28/06/2001 03:59 GMT
they look a lot better than quake textures so why not use q3 and ut textures.

[Reply]


Hmm
#1308 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 28/06/2001 04:38 GMT
When walking down a street and stumbling across a car much nicer looking than the one in your garage -why don't you steal it?

[Reply]


Hey!
#1309 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.130], 28/06/2001 13:06 GMT
I get that feeling too, if I go out driving too soon after playing GTA.

[Reply]


Uhh
#1310 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 28/06/2001 14:32 GMT
there is a big dif between free quake 3 textures and somone elses car.

[Reply]


Uhh Too...
#1311 Posted by Dilvish [172.190.123.124], 28/06/2001 15:33 GMT
I do agree with u on that, Julian. This smells a bit of puritanism, IMHO.

[Reply]


Not Really
#1312 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.160], 28/06/2001 17:15 GMT
Why is stealing textures any different to stealing anything else?

[Reply]


Well . . .
#1313 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 28/06/2001 18:14 GMT , Refers to Post #1310
There's a big difference in degree? Yes.
Is it still illegal? Yes.

More importantly, is it still wrong? Yes.

/me commits his $0.02 to another endless texture ripping discussion which will likely have no effect whatsoever, as people who don't care will continue to not care until they receive a "please remove the link to your map" letter from id and proceed to call them petty, money-grubbing bastards.

We need a <rolleyes> icon.

[Reply]


There Is A Thread For This
#1314 Posted by Grahf [209.145.69.181], 28/06/2001 18:14 GMT
If you want to argue about intellectual property/copyright, I would be much obliged if you resurrected Peej's thread.

Though actually, if we listen to Paul Jacquay's latest postings about id texture usage (on q3w), making texture packs and distributing them is the "evil" here, not the usage of converted textures.


Either way, the argument has been beaten into the ground.

[Reply]


!
#1315 Posted by julian [24.25.177.219], 28/06/2001 19:40 GMT
its not like id says u cant use there textures in custom maps. converting them to work in quake 1 is not stealing att all.

[Reply]


Yes It Is
#1316 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 28/06/2001 20:42 GMT
because then people can see Quake3 textures in Quake1, without having to pay any money for Quake3. How about if people converted the levels too? and the models? you could play Quake3 without actually having to pay for any of it.

This will be my last post on the issue (unless someone else says something stupid enough to make me respond).

[Reply]


Quake 3 Textures In Q1
#1317 Posted by Boots [203.79.102.64], 29/06/2001 01:04 GMT
There's a gplQuake engine called Phoenix quake that has suport for TGAs and a lot of the Q3 shader comands.
Unfortunately he never finished off the full support like he planned, (jpgs and zip suport and all) :(
Any hoo I hunted down a normal q1 map that used converted quake3 textures called jexdm1, then copied over the original quake 3 textures and shaders (had to convert the jpgs to tgas tho), and voila, a quake 1 map with lovely 24bit hi res textures.
If you're interested grab the file
"Phoenix R6 - Jexdm1.bsp Shaders"
from
here
It has instructions and links in the readme.

Aditional notes to that readme I have to make looking at it now, I made this file a fair while ago, when I only had the q3 test.
Instalation:
Step 2: or look into the jexdm1.shader to get the specific texture names
Step 2a: Convert any jpg textures to tga. (early q3tests only used tga not jpgs)

There is also a texture in jexdm1 that he used that was in the Q3test but not the final, I can't remember the name tho.

Known bugs: The first one I mentioned is because of thus: "The inner ring does not show because all textures in Quake 1 have coordinates equivalent to
'q3map_globaltexture' which does not work at all with 'clampmap'."
Thats was from phoenix himself.
I was right in asuming the cause of the second bug, Phoenix told me about it as well.


If I have time I might re-do the file to make it clearer.

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1318 Posted by Boots [203.79.102.81], 29/06/2001 02:45 GMT
Just re-installed my own file. Eech lots of problems.
I've fixed up what I could and added the bits to the readme.

It's
"Phoenix R6 - Jexdm1.bsp Shaders - Release 2"
here

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1319 Posted by TheToadWarrior [64.91.156.169], 29/06/2001 07:23 GMT
Using converted and inferior Id textures in Id's other games may technically be stealing but I doubt Id really cares. Converting Q3 maps and models to Q1, won't make anyone give up Q3. Have you see the maps that hae been converted? They're ass compared to the originals.

[Reply]


New Mapper In The House!
#1320 Posted by CaptainZod [12.145.226.51], 29/06/2001 08:05 GMT
Whats up!

I am here to post a bit of blurb on a map o' mine called RotoSpawn. Its a Q2 map, and it rocks on LAN so for 2-4 players. If you like up close and personal in your face deathmatch... try it out!

Download RotoSpawn

Mephisto's Q2 maps

Thanx all...
CaptainZod aka"Mephisto"

[Reply]


Lighting Of Player Models In Quake
#1321 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 29/06/2001 13:35 GMT
Can someone explain how the player model (& dropped backpacks) are lit in quake. I understand how lightmaps are precalculated for the surface area of the 'world' but obviously moving models have to have their lighting calculated dynamically & I'm a little unsure how this is achieved.

Is it done in basically the same way as lightmaps but in real time? ie. rays thrown from all light entities in the map/locale & added together to give a value for that point in space? or something..??? OR is it by taking a value from the nearest bit of floor (world brush) they happen to be standing on?

Thx if you can explain or point me to a relevant url.

[Reply]


Now I Think About It..
#1322 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.80], 29/06/2001 13:41 GMT
I asked a similar question before but in relation to a problem I was having with monster models. I believe CZG said they got the light value from that of the first normal brush beneath them. Is that right?

[Reply]


Yes...
#1323 Posted by Toady [195.163.228.243], 29/06/2001 14:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1322
model light value is that of the lightmap directly beneath it...

It's not based on lights in the world, which I believe wouldn't be possible as non-model light entities are removed after BSP LIGHTing(aren't they?)

[Reply]


LitX0R
#1324 Posted by CZG [130.67.143.121], 29/06/2001 16:13 GMT
They are not removed by default by the compilers, but there are options in say, Tyrlite to have them removed. Not always a good thing if you have triggered lights and such...
Some of the newer (And perhaps the older ones too, I dunno really) Quake ports actually add some 'specularish' lighting from the closest pointlights to add some more depth to the original light from the floor.

[Reply]


Grahf Is Still Working On A Title
#1325 Posted by Grahf [24.51.158.57], 29/06/2001 22:47 GMT
Standard GlQuake model lighting does have several degrees of direction, 8 I believe. i.e., I assume taht means light can appear to be striking a model from 8 different directions (?).

[Reply]


Hum...
#1326 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.192.188], 29/06/2001 23:02 GMT , Refers to Post #1320
I think the Mephisto thing's better =) btw that first linkie no werk =\

[Reply]


Just A Quick Question...
#1327 Posted by necros [172.159.158.65], 30/06/2001 02:40 GMT
When using tyrlite, and trying to compile my level, it gives me the error 'not 3 values for colour' and i'm not even compiling with the -colored command.

what the hell?

had no errors from other programs (vis/qbsp)

[Reply]


Re: Just A Quick Question...
#1328 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 30/06/2001 02:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1327
When using tyrlite... it gives me the error 'not 3 values for colour'...

Use version 0.9 and it'll you'll just get a warning. The level will compile fine. The problem is that some custom entities use the "_color" key with just a single value. The simplistic entity parser doesn't have enough state to know if it's looking a light entity or not, so I give a warning in case it is.

[Reply]


Thx.
#1329 Posted by necros [172.135.59.196], 30/06/2001 13:54 GMT
Yeah, I kinda had a feeling it was that. (Had the color key on some models, like ya said)

[Reply]


Interesting...
#1330 Posted by CaptainZod [12.145.226.218], 30/06/2001 21:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1316
You know its the engine that makes about 75% of the gaming experience for me...
And another thing... I don't see any copywright on those textures anywhere... its on the game as a whole... therefore it isn't a violation of said copywrite to use them in anything, Just to copy the game as a whole.
And if someone did a q3mod for q1 and didn't call it quakeIII arena mod... then ID would have no legal ground there aswell, unless they have a patent on the Quake franchise in which case all the other 1st person ID clones would be in jail =P

[Reply]


Um..
#1331 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.68.78], 30/06/2001 21:25 GMT , Refers to Post #1330
Bullshit

[Reply]


Just Wondering...
#1332 Posted by necros [172.175.109.249], 01/07/2001 00:01 GMT
Where do most of you people (I'm refering to Q1 Mappers) go to get Beta Testers. Having no immeadiate familly interrested in quake, i don't have any one to inflict my levels on. This is also a question If anyone here would be willing to Beta test my map ...

btw: it's not done yet, but I wanted to see if anyone would be interrested...

[Reply]


Necros
#1333 Posted by Biff_Debris [205.188.198.28], 01/07/2001 01:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1332
Why, you can find testers right here! I would meself, but I'm getting a map into beta right now (actually, gotta update the tracker on that, too) =)

[Reply]


Necros...
#1334 Posted by palldjon@icafe [61.9.128.142], 01/07/2001 05:19 GMT , Refers to Post #1332
I'm up for it. Just email me the .bsp zipped up tight. I'm still developing as both a mapper and player but can offer constructive criticism.

[Reply]


Zod
#1335 Posted by Lunaran [152.163.204.49], 01/07/2001 17:20 GMT
You know its the engine that makes about 75% of the gaming experience for me...
And another thing... I don't see any copywright on those textures anywhere... its on the game as a whole... therefore it isn't a violation of said copywrite to use them in anything, Just to copy the game as a whole.


If you've convinced yourself of that then you are a complete dumbass.

Have a nice day!

Moon

[Reply]


Thx
#1336 Posted by necros [172.142.131.67], 01/07/2001 18:13 GMT
palldjon/biff. it's nice to see some enthousiasm... and I might just send you that map, pallgjon...

now... if i could only find a sprite editor... =)

btw: next person to post will be #1337! Yay!

[Reply]


Oops, Typo:
#1337 Posted by necros [172.142.131.67], 01/07/2001 18:14 GMT
pallgjon = palldjon

[Reply]


Grahf Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1338 Posted by Grahf [24.51.158.57], 01/07/2001 20:30 GMT
not a very 1337 post for post no. 1337

[Reply]


Well...
#1339 Posted by necros [172.138.240.123], 01/07/2001 20:58 GMT
mods, feel free to delete 1337 and assign some one who is...

[Reply]


Hmm
#1340 Posted by GrindSpire [213.122.175.103], 02/07/2001 06:00 GMT , Refers to Post #1338
I dunno, I think it's a brilliant post for 1337 =)

[Reply]


Yeah...
#1341 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 03/07/2001 00:54 GMT
I'm almost convinced I should change my nick right away Smile.

[Reply]


Beta Testing Anyone?
#1342 Posted by Mark [131.247.167.78], 03/07/2001 03:32 GMT
If anyone would be interested, I have a q1sp level to be beta-tested at chuma.cas.usf.edu/~mmcclure/lm231.zip

Shambler didn't like it, but I'd like some second opinions. Play it; enjoy it; tell me how I can make it better.

Thanks!

[Reply]


Jump Path
#1343 Posted by JB [202.80.33.14], 04/07/2001 00:17 GMT
newbie here, how do launch jumps that curve like Nunuk's plutonians launches??? or is this a trade secret... I'm using Gtkradiant 1-1 beta

JB

[Reply]


Top Secrety Secret Jumping Secret Stuff
#1344 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 04/07/2001 08:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1343
You build little chute/bevel thingies out of common/clip at the 'corners' of the jump (or it might be common/slick, I forget). Obviously getting them in the right place can involve a lot of trial and error.

[Reply]


Lol
#1345 Posted by killazontherun [203.164.3.167], 04/07/2001 10:17 GMT
JB, hehe what a name :)

From what I've heard, JB apparently means blow job.

[Reply]


More Questions...
#1346 Posted by necros [172.136.9.80], 04/07/2001 17:21 GMT
Time for me to show my un-1337-ness, again by asking for more answers Smile

Alright: Is there any way to get Sprites to light in quake? Since I've been trying to do some stuff with sprites in my map, but so far, they always turn out fullbright...

I really wanted to use these sprites for trees (having oriented in a star patern or X patern works really well), but it is never shaded properly (well, actually, not at all...)
Is it a setting in the sprite file, or something in the Qc, or is it just plain impossible... Tongue

anyway thx...

[Reply]


Killaz
#1347 Posted by DaZ [213.123.29.24], 04/07/2001 20:17 GMT , Refers to Post #1345
nah, thats BJ Smile

[Reply]


I'd Suppose...
#1348 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 04/07/2001 21:30 GMT
that sprites cannot be lit, as they are per definition just a point in space, and you cannot paint a lightmap upon a single point can you?
So Sprites are always destined to be fulbright.
(Try making the trees really dark then?)

[Reply]


Daz
#1349 Posted by killazontherun [203.164.3.178], 05/07/2001 05:05 GMT
I know that, but something has started here and JB also means blowjob.. I don't know I don't care..

[Reply]


Jump Path
#1350 Posted by JB [202.139.40.101], 05/07/2001 07:24 GMT
yeah that's what I thought , thingies

JB >) cool huh

[Reply]


Gl-texture-cache-mismatch-error
#1351 Posted by Dr.Shoe [134.147.64.12], 05/07/2001 07:36 GMT
Hi Folks!!

I´ve got a problem: I´m working on a q1dm-map (ffa; 8players ;bsp file size:1173 kb). After compiling and starting it in quake it runs fine. But if I
1. change to another level
2. restart my level
3. start quake with another level and then change to my level
qukae chrashes and I got an "GL-Texture-Cache-mismath-error". When I start it again everything is okay until i do 1-3 again.
Any Ideas what could cause this Error??
(didn´t use to much or missized textures)

Dr.Shoe

[Reply]


Mismatch
#1352 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 05/07/2001 08:13 GMT , Refers to Post #1351
This came up a week or 2 ago. Its caused by having a texture with the same name in the 2 different maps where these are different sizes. Compare the names of the textures in the two maps you load & change yours where necessary.

[Reply]


CZG
#1353 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 05/07/2001 09:33 GMT , Refers to Post #1348
Ya, you just darken the whole sprite. I vaguely remember DarkPlaces had this feature.

[Reply]


CRIPES!
#1354 Posted by necros [172.138.99.154], 05/07/2001 13:53 GMT
So, there's absolutely no way? Is it possible to code something into QC that would adjust the gamma level of the sprite according to the lightmap underneath it (kinda like models are lit)?

Man... I can just see this...

tree0.spr
tree1.spr
tree2.spr ~ tree20.spr

all the same tree, but different lighting? ugh... Tongue

Oh well, better start rendering...
But seriously, if anyone knows how to light a friggin' sprite ... please? =/

[Reply]


Hmm...
#1355 Posted by CZG [130.67.219.31], 05/07/2001 16:05 GMT
Mindcrime mentioned a long time ago under Nehahra dev something about a light_lev field, that he thought about using for a weapon that used shadows as it's ammo. I dunno if that light_lev field excists in normal Quake or if it was in some freaky exe, and I have no idea what it would do then either.
So don't ask me.
Although you didn't.
And I still replied.

PS: You'd need 36 sprites to cover all the lightmap levels in Quake I think... Or maybe it was 16, one for each lightness of the colors in the palette.
Anyway. Render the tree once, plonk it into TexMex, and if I'm not mistaking, TexMex' darken/lighten tool will adjust the lightness of the image the same way as software Quake does.

[Reply]


Necros:
#1356 Posted by Grahf [24.51.158.57], 05/07/2001 18:50 GMT
You're using TomazQuake for your level, right? (I could be talking out of my ass) If you are, then do the trees with alpha channel TGA's, with TQScript. There may even be a function to lighten/darken a shader texture in there, too.

You COULD make the trees a model... Those are lit in some fashion by the game. I'm thinking along the lines of Nehahra/Zerstorer trees.

[Reply]


Grahf, I Did Exactly That,
#1357 Posted by necros [172.142.193.75], 05/07/2001 22:13 GMT , Refers to Post #1356
Although, i didn't use scripts, to keep compatibility with GLQuake, and Software (surprisingly, they look decent in software) Unfortunatly, there's no Shader scripts in TQ yet...

But then...
WTF IS THIS???

Why does GLQuake do that? It's fine in software tho... (couldn't get a screen shot, as for some reason, all shots from software quake are in B&W... hmmmm)


As for models, well, I said it before but I don't have a clue as to how to do them... and anyway, i'm happy with my sprites. Smile

[Reply]


AWWW FUCK!
#1358 Posted by necros [172.142.104.215], 06/07/2001 00:51 GMT
I just tried a quick compile of the whole level so far, and I just got another error. Ok, this one only crashed out to the console with the error:

PF_precache_model: overflow
host_error: program error


I suspect it has something to do with the torches which i changed into MOVETYPE_NONEs.

Anyway help...
used:
WQBSP 1.65
TYRLITE 0.9
RVIS+

BTW: I got the error from Software quake, when I ran it in TomazQuake, it just crashed with a 'this program has performed an illegal funtionc call' error. Same with GLQuake.

Oh, and don't tell me I didn't use enough ram, i put a -winmem 128 and -heapsize 128000.

[Reply]


Append This:
#1359 Posted by necros [172.142.104.215], 06/07/2001 00:52 GMT
brushes ~2200

[Reply]


PF_precache_model
#1360 Posted by GlassMan [213.121.125.130], 06/07/2001 05:45 GMT
I think that means you've exceeded the permitted number of models (which include brush models). (255 iirc)

[Reply]


Necros
#1361 Posted by The Lieutenant [152.163.207.73], 06/07/2001 10:01 GMT
there is a way to do trees how you want in Q1, but you have to use TomazQuake or similar - make the tree sprites into textures (with transparent colour in appropriate places), then apply them to thin brushes set 90 degrees apart from one another. Then highlight both brushes and make them into a func_wall. You'll also need to be running custom QC as described in Tomaz's "moding.txt" (sic) file.

[Reply]


Um...
#1362 Posted by necros [172.156.37.154], 06/07/2001 16:54 GMT
Lieutenant: That doesn't work at all (I tried it), since the way Quake does visibility, anything behind a func_wall or similar entities is simply not drawn, which means, any other entities, and/or monster will not appear behind the func_walls (i ran into this problem a lot when doing stuff with the illusionaries).

GlassMan: I only have a total of 184 entities in my map (at least, what WQBSP told me), so that can't be the problem.

And once again, I tell you, it's not the trees, as I made them static entities. (no, i'm not getting the 'too many static entities' error =/)

When I first got this problem, I went back into my QC and changed all the torches back to Statics Ents, and left the flame balls as dynamic entities... but didn't help. (but it's why the tree sprites are static)

[Reply]


Oh Shit!
#1363 Posted by necros [172.156.37.154], 06/07/2001 16:58 GMT
What is the max amount of TOTAL entities? (Excluding doors).

When WQBSP starts, it says 789 entities (so, 789 - 184 = 605 Ents (because I have 184 bspmodels))

So i assume this means I have 605 Ents. (Including lights?)
What's the max?

[Reply]


Well...
#1364 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 06/07/2001 16:58 GMT
If the trees are sprites, and you have indeed made many different versions of the sprites for varying light levels, then each sprite would need it's own precache. And most entities have more than one precache too.

[Reply]


Max Numbers
#1365 Posted by GlassMan [213.121.125.130], 06/07/2001 18:32 GMT
The maximum number of entities including lights is 2048 so thats not your problem.

The precache error refers to the number of different models that are precached so a shambler say only counts once even if you have 20 of them. There is a command that will list the precached models in the console but I forget what it is. Someone should know.

I dont know why you want to exclude doors. Each separate func_* brush entity & trigger brushes will count as a model in that tally.

[Reply]


Max Numbers:More
#1366 Posted by Apollo [213.123.10.173], 06/07/2001 18:55 GMT
err, while we're on the subject, how many BRUSHES can a map have (in q1)?
666Apollo666

[Reply]


Func_walls
#1367 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 06/07/2001 21:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1362
err? everything behind a func_wall should be drawn all the time, it does not block vis (and not light either I believe).

[Reply]


Correct
#1368 Posted by DaZ [213.122.224.116], 06/07/2001 22:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1367
CyBeAr.

[Reply]


I'm Not Sure....
#1369 Posted by Jaj [62.83.135.236], 07/07/2001 01:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1366
...but i think they were 4096... but if you compile your level with wqbsp165, your map could have 8000 bruhes more or less, but it doesn't mean quake engine could handle that map

[Reply]


One Question....
#1370 Posted by Jaj [62.83.135.236], 07/07/2001 01:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1365
....if for example you have a shambler in your map, wouldn't count apart from shambler himself, the head.mdl, and gibs.mdl.... so the shambler would count as 3, i don't know... just something i had in head and needed to ask Smile

[Reply]


Jaj
#1371 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.151], 07/07/2001 09:28 GMT
Yes & there are 3 gibs models & each of them will count as well as things like the spike model which you may not think of at first. The command you need I think is "mcache" in the console to list them.

On the number of brushes, unless the bsp compiler has a limit then there isn't one as the bsp itself doesn't have any brushes.

[Reply]


Thanks...
#1372 Posted by Jaj [62.83.1.106], 07/07/2001 23:42 GMT , Refers to Post #1371
for the info

[Reply]


Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee(oops! No "e" Left)lp!
#1373 Posted by Dilvish [172.191.172.105], 08/07/2001 20:39 GMT
I'm laboriously trying to create my first Q1 SP map (with my own tex, I know almost everybody hates them and I don't give a damn, cuz I map for fun), and I nee to know how to make monsters appear unexpectedly (as if through a teleporter.
Could someone kindly explain me how it is done?
Thanx all

[Reply]


Horrid Teleport Boxes
#1374 Posted by CZG [130.67.143.61], 08/07/2001 21:51 GMT
Place your monsters in tiny boxes on the outside of the level, (or one bigass box, doesn't really matter,) and make a trigger_teleport around each one. Set them up as usual, but also give them a targetname. When that targetname is triggered, the monster is teleported to the info_teleport_destination set in the trigger_teleport.
Horrendous amounts of work if you're planning on having many surprises. If you're into QC though, simply place Zer's SF64 code into it, and you'll have a much better time...

[Reply]


Levelshots
#1375 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.210], 09/07/2001 01:47 GMT
I've been having problems loading a perfectly good compile of my map in Q3.
It fails & says: "Requested feature was omitted at compile time"

I usually convert my .tga into a .jpg for the levelshot & its worked fine in the past.
But now it only works with .tga WTF??

I pull up Bal's, ztn's, Lun's etc.. they're all different sizes but all in .jpg format.
What should a levelshot for Q3 be according to gospel?
I can't find any reference in the readmes, Q3 World, or Rust.

I'd really hate to use a 2mb .tga damn!

[Reply]


Thanx, CZG
#1376 Posted by Dilvish [172.189.31.12], 09/07/2001 06:59 GMT
...

[Reply]


DeFrag...
#1377 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 09/07/2001 08:26 GMT , Refers to Post #1375
You're not saving as progressively encoded are you? That'll screw it up. Be sure to use standard encoding.

Not much point in making the pic bigger that 640x480, in most cases you can get away with much smaller than that. The id ones are 128x128, IIRC. If you use tiny .tgas the final pk3 can sometimes end up smaller with .tga than .jpg, oddly.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1378 Posted by Dr.Shoe [134.147.64.12], 09/07/2001 08:37 GMT , Refers to Post #1352
THANK YOU!!!

IT was a 32*32 cilp-texture.

[Reply]


Tks Alot Shallow[BAP]
#1379 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.180], 09/07/2001 14:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1377
I'll try non-progressive when I get home tonight.

[Reply]


DeFrag Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1380 Posted by DeFrag [208.49.10.180], 09/07/2001 14:23 GMT
btw, what is IIRC?

[Reply]


If I Recall Correctly.
#1381 Posted by Tron [202.7.186.9], 09/07/2001 14:36 GMT
I think that's what it means.

[Reply]


Defrag:
#1382 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 09/07/2001 15:34 GMT , Refers to Post #1375
I vaguely remember it must be square as well. I should certainly be power of 2 just like a normal texture (which, really, it is) as well.

[Reply]


Ahem
#1383 Posted by Lunaran [172.137.133.185], 09/07/2001 16:08 GMT
Dilvish: nobody doesn't like Q1SP.

DeFrag: Don't make your levelshots excessively big. I fucking hate people who put in 800x600 targa levelshots - it's so wantonly stupid to have a levelshot bigger than your BSP. Always use JPG's, and don't be a goof and put in some huge texture. even if it's JPG in your pak file it'll be converted to 32-bit TGA for the rendering memory, so anything over 256x256 is going to kill your memory limit real fast.

Moon

[Reply]


Lunaran
#1384 Posted by Dilvish [172.191.183.161], 09/07/2001 19:21 GMT
Meaning?

[Reply]


This Is Prolly
#1385 Posted by Dilvish [172.191.183.161], 09/07/2001 19:26 GMT
a stupid question, but is it possible to play a level that has func_rotate things and such in it without having Scourge or Dissolution installed? I have those 2 mission packs, but not everyone does, and I wouldn't like to deprive anyone from the immense privilege of playing my most extaordinary map.
Ahem.

[Reply]


You'd Need To Include...
#1386 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 09/07/2001 20:08 GMT
A progs.dat that has been compiled with the hipnotic rotating entites and tell people to install it as a mod. That's how!

[Reply]


Dilvish:
#1387 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.45], 09/07/2001 21:02 GMT
Use progs.dat from levels like mexx9, mexx10, gmsp1 or um... *mindblock*... yeah, one of those three...

[Reply]


...or Rde...
#1388 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.45], 09/07/2001 21:05 GMT
.

[Reply]


That Simple?
#1389 Posted by Dilvish [172.189.28.166], 10/07/2001 05:55 GMT
All right, thanx a lot, all.

[Reply]


Starting Shooters By Shooting?
#1390 Posted by Decay [194.106.190.202], 10/07/2001 13:41 GMT
I’m a beginner at this quake map building world, but I need this question answered in order to finish this thing that I started. I couldn’t find a solution within the manual. And the question goes:
How do I make a shooter that is activated by shooting at trigger (or something else)???… you know, like in that level with Xaero “The Very End Of You”. I managed to make one get started by passing through trigger_multiple brush …

[Reply]


Blah.
#1391 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 10/07/2001 16:59 GMT , Refers to Post #1390
You need to give your button a "health" key with a low value (so shooting it will activate it).

[Reply]


A Tricky Question.
#1392 Posted by Tron [203.29.136.45], 10/07/2001 18:04 GMT
Okay it's 3:33 AM and I was just feeling curious. In some speedmap (i think it might have been xenons) theres a big collumn at the end you have to shoot to exit the level. It looks like a func_explosive_wall kinda deal but it's just in a normal bsp without needing any extra qc to run. Anyone know how it was done?

Tron

[Reply]


Hmmm
#1393 Posted by DaZ [213.122.216.166], 10/07/2001 18:08 GMT
XeNoN might, not sure though Smile

/sarcasm

yeah I would like to know as well, CZG used the sme trick (I think) in his 100b2 map.

[Reply]


God Dammit!
#1394 Posted by CZG [148.122.66.36], 10/07/2001 20:54 GMT
I've explained this 5 times already!
Make info_notnull!
Give "targetname" "boom"!
Give "use" "barrel_explode"!
Make trigger_once!
Give "target" "boom"

[Reply]


Is It
#1395 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.76], 11/07/2001 01:43 GMT
possible to mute sounds of some objects, like traps? Get rid of sky/water noise using only map changes (I know hvis can disable water/wind sounds, any other ways ?).

[Reply]


Quark
#1396 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.76], 11/07/2001 02:01 GMT
how to plug any custom texes to quark ?
I dont get all this add-on coding shit...
Any help ?

[Reply]


Starting Shooters By Shooting?
#1397 Posted by Decay [194.106.189.79], 11/07/2001 05:53 GMT , Refers to Post #1391
Thanks PJW ... it works.
Decay

[Reply]


No Prob
#1398 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 11/07/2001 07:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1397
Glad I could help. Smile

[Reply]


Speedy:
#1399 Posted by necros [172.132.197.3], 13/07/2001 18:45 GMT
You can get rid of the Sky sound by simply making all sky brushes Func_illusionaries (or walls...) , then, of course, you need real brushes behind those...

as for custom textures, well, I use Quark 4.07 (i know it's old, but i just like it), and all you do, is make a 'Custom Textures' thing in the Quark explorer then import your textures there. then, when your in the map editor, just look for the tab named "custom textures" or whatever you named it.

[Reply]


Rotating Ents And The Evil Lights
#1400 Posted by necros [172.132.197.3], 13/07/2001 18:48 GMT
Once upon a time, I tried to light a Rotating Brush, and to my dismay, it went all screwy! For some reason, all the toggleable lights weren't toggled on the ent, they were always on. observe:example

how do you get rotating ents to light properly? can i do like trains, and place the actual brushes somewhere else first to light them?

[Reply]


First Of All...
#1401 Posted by czg [130.67.143.85], 13/07/2001 20:40 GMT
make sure your compilers actually support the rotating bits. Most compilers released after the Rogue (yes, Rogue, not Hipnotic) pak should do so. What I use is Tyrlite and Wqbsp1.65 which works fine

[Reply]


Qbsp Is Demonspawn
#1402 Posted by than [213.1.10.214], 14/07/2001 14:06 GMT
Ok, couple of quick question. Please don't point me to Quakelab for the answers because the solutions offered there aren't terribly helpful in this case.

1. My level is apparently leaking according to wqbsp although it compiles and runs fine. vis runs on it and the outside is filled (the error says no filling performed, then it sits there for a bit (doing the filling but without spewing out the info.)) There are no abnormalities in game. It's just a weird error and is annoying me a bit.

2. CuteNodePortal_r:was clipped away.
Ok, what the fuck does this mean? I've had it lots of times before and managed to fix it by messing about with brushes. It only occurs when there are fairly complex arrangements of brushes but tracking down the offending brush is bloody hard. Anyone else had problems with this and can offer a simple solution?

Cheers,

-than

[Reply]


Re: Qbsp Is Demonspawn
#1403 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.113], 14/07/2001 15:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1402
Check if you have a skybrush that doesn't touch any part of the inside of your map.

I had a wierd situation a couple of days ago where hulls 0 and 2 would compile fine, but hull 1 would report a leak. A prt file was generated, but after vising, it would have stupid things like 300 r_speeds with my face right up against a wall. Getting rid of this "detached" sky brush did the trick for me. I have no idea why though...

[Reply]


CZG:
#1404 Posted by necros [172.165.133.128], 14/07/2001 23:27 GMT , Refers to Post #1401
I use those exact two compilers (well, and RVIS+), yet the rotating ents still light wierd.

Oh, and why does GLQuake display sprites upside down, meanwhile TomazQuake (which is based off of GLQuake) display them right-side up (software does it right-side up too)? like this

this is really all that's keeping me from finish the map...so i'd really appreaciate any suggestions...

[Reply]


Factory Gazelle
#1405 Posted by czg [130.67.143.66], 15/07/2001 00:13 GMT
If neither of that is the case, maybe it's the one about the rotating brushes and the switchable lights. I've never done that myself though, so I have no other suggestions.
As for sprites, well, I don't care about sprites...

[Reply]


And...
#1406 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 15/07/2001 04:44 GMT , Refers to Post #1402
have you done any "carving" in the level. I gave up using this *cough* technique when it started triggering the nofill/fill response. Likewise with the cutnodeportal error.

[Reply]


Necros
#1407 Posted by Grahf [24.51.158.171], 15/07/2001 07:36 GMT
I know that Quake uses different 3d axis orientations than is common (it uses Z for up/down, instead of Y, I think). Regardless of that, It would seem that GlQuake is simply loading models with a different axis orientation than software or Tomaz. I bet it would be solvable merely by hacking the QC, not the engine itself. Perhaps there is a function in the qc for the orientation of a sprite? If there is, then you could either hardcode it to point the way you want, or make a custom entity to manually adjust the direction. I'm no coder, though...

oh yeah, and...

Beware the Rotating Bits! They are the source of Primal Evil! All hail the Rotating Chthulu!

goodnight.

[Reply]


LOL!
#1408 Posted by than [213.1.29.1], 15/07/2001 09:43 GMT
carving?

hehe, yeah right.

Btw, Tyrann, cheers for the help but none of my skybrushes are the prob. I had no sky brushes in when the leak problem started and now I do there seems to be no extra problem. R_speeds are as I would expect too.

-than

[Reply]


LOL!
#1409 Posted by StarBUCK [213.122.75.113], 15/07/2001 13:24 GMT
no necros you gotta keep the trees upside down, itd be much more entertaining Smile

[Reply]


Skybox
#1410 Posted by Decay [194.106.188.210], 16/07/2001 07:55 GMT
I have few more questions.
I don’t get how to make (enviroment) skybox from the manual. Making a shader part I kinda get but what texture do I apply to box surrounding my level? …Q3Radiant doesn’t open “env” folder. (Did I mention that I am a biginner at qmapping?)
If the answer is more complicated you could point me to the site where I could find the answers…
…one more thing… Where can I find how to make custom skyboxes or find some allready made by others?

[Reply]


Decay
#1411 Posted by DaZ [62.7.33.5], 16/07/2001 10:59 GMT
Not sure about tutotials, but there are an arse load of cool skybox's at Socks site,

Here

[Reply]


Skyboxes
#1412 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 16/07/2001 12:54 GMT
The best tutorial I've come across on these is on claudec.com, which is unfortunately down at the moment. The best thing to do in the absence of that is take a map with a skybox, copy and rename the shader to match your map, then redo the paths to match your images.

IIRC there is a sky related tutorial on Sock's site, but unfortunately it was intended as a supplement to the one on claudec.com

[Reply]


Claudec Link
#1413 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 16/07/2001 12:57 GMT
IP based link

Just remembered... the site is still there but the DNS is buggered... I think the domain reg's expired.

[Reply]


Aaaargh
#1414 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 16/07/2001 13:01 GMT
Wrong fecking tutorial!

THIS LINK!

[Reply]


Errors Coming Out Of My Ass...
#1415 Posted by necros [172.152.66.182], 16/07/2001 17:56 GMT
Ok, i'm addressing mainly mappers who have dealt with large, 2000+ brush maps...

------------
CALL1 471 (precache_model)precache_model()
knight.qc
(NO FUNCTION)
PF_precache_model: overflow
Host_error: Program error
------------

I got this error in quake when running my map (which compiled properly, vised and all that good stuff).

before, the line that says knight.qc was world.qc, but i had removed some func_movewalls, and recompiled and that's when it switched to knight.qc.
Now, there's nothing wrong with the knight's code. I didn't add anything new to it, so it can't be that.

Anybody ever encounter this error?

btw, even tho i'm using tomazquake, both other quakes (GL, software) give the same error, so it's not engine related.

[Reply]


Hmm
#1416 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.151], 16/07/2001 20:24 GMT
didn't we just deal with this error? too many precached models. Only 255 allowed including brush models. Remember each individual func_movewall, func_illusionary etc etc will count towards that maximum. Use mcache to list them. The items marked *1,*2, etc are your brush models.

[Reply]


Well, That Would Be The Problem, Except,
#1417 Posted by necros [172.134.124.160], 16/07/2001 20:27 GMT
i only have 195 brush models. (func_XXX)

So that's not it.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1418 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.151], 16/07/2001 20:35 GMT
it will include all the weapon models, health etc etc..use mcache & you will have them listed. 195 is a _lot_ of brush models.

[Reply]


Also Includes
#1419 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.151], 16/07/2001 20:48 GMT
trigger_* brushes

[Reply]


Models
#1420 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.6], 16/07/2001 21:16 GMT
What is the total number of all non-brush models ? Would be handy to know

[Reply]


I Think Someone Said 2048...
#1421 Posted by necros [172.134.124.160], 16/07/2001 22:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1420
but i could be "talking out of my ass".

well, i got rid of the model problem, now, i got a new one...

what does:

can't find function Monster_hknight
Host_Error: ED_ParseEdict: Parse Error

mean?

This doesn't seem map related, but I can't understand, since I can play any other maps with the same Progs.dat i'm using for this map...

[Reply]


2048
#1422 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.151], 16/07/2001 23:25 GMT
was the total number of entities (including lights) that quake (or maybe one of the compilers) seems to allow. Don't know if there is a specific maximum for non-brush models.

[Reply]


What I Mean
#1423 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.6], 17/07/2001 00:01 GMT
What is the total number of standard quake models (all monsters and stuff) so I`d know how many brushmodels I can have in a map

[Reply]


He He...
#1424 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 17/07/2001 05:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1408
didn't really think you still (ever) be using it but...*shrug*

[Reply]


Is That The Actual Capitalisation?
#1425 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.106.187], 17/07/2001 06:59 GMT , Refers to Post #1421
If it is actually saying Monster_*, then something went wierd with your entity defines somewhere. Entity names aren't normally cap'd; that should be monster_knight.

Apart from that rotating fernackerpans are horrid for sending model counts over the edge.

[Reply]


Skyboxes
#1426 Posted by Decay [194.106.188.236], 17/07/2001 08:27 GMT , Refers to Post #1414
I found on Socks site his sky-boxes and in the read-me file that comes with them where all answers I neaded.
Thanks guys (or girls : ) )
Decay

PS. You should watchout for the ultimate space fast and furious jumpad action level that I am about to finish these days. It’s named “Pretorian” and I’ll try to put it out on ..::LVL beta section for second opinions.

[Reply]


Make Sure
#1427 Posted by Lunaran [152.163.204.78], 17/07/2001 15:48 GMT
you spell it "praetorian" before you release it. :p

[Reply]


Huh?
#1428 Posted by necros [172.146.62.250], 17/07/2001 21:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1425
then something went wierd with your entity defines somewhere

What do you mean? Do you mean the Classname is screwed, or the actual code?

I don't think it's the code, since I can run other maps with Hell Knights in it. So, it must be map-related, but i checked all the monster_hell_knights and there's no caps on em... so unless i misunderstood what you meant...

And I solved the 'rotating brushes sending my model count over' problem, by splittingup the map into two sections. The main body of it, and the ending sequence...

[Reply]


2 Questions, Please...
#1429 Posted by Dilvish [172.191.191.98], 17/07/2001 21:48 GMT
1) Is it possible with one trigger to get lights to go from "off" to "on" one after the other? Meaning light1 goes on after 1 sec, light2 after 2 secs, etc.

2) How do you use the "trigger_monsterjump"? It seems funny, but I dunno what it does or how to use it.
Thx

[Reply]


Dilvish:
#1430 Posted by XeNoN [217.158.29.3], 17/07/2001 22:12 GMT
1.) Well, you could try and add a "delay" value to each of the lights (1, then 2, then 3 etc) then give'em all the same targetname and target them with a trigger... but I doubt that'd work. The best way is to set your first trigger to target several other triggers with the same targetname, and give THEM "delay" attributes, with the values representing the time in seconds. Then all you need to do is give each light a different targetname, so each of the delayed triggers will target each one... is that understandable? You can set spawnflags bit 1 on the lights to make them start switched off.

2.) You add a brush to the trigger_monsterjump entity, and when a monster walks or is dropped into it, it jumps :). Set "height" value in quake units to configure how high the monster jumps, "angle" in degrees for the direction (0 = east) and "speed" for how far the monster jumps in that direction (or how fast they jump, same result)

Now if someones already posted on this then I'll be annoyed...

[Reply]


Xenon:
#1431 Posted by necros [172.146.62.250], 17/07/2001 23:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1430
I don't believe that your lights thing will work. it will result in an infinite loop (since the lights will be retriggering themselves via the delay relays).
The best way (IMO) to do lights like Dilvish is describing, would be to use Hipnotic's Func_counter (and func_oncount).

Simply make a counter, and have it count in a loop, resetting when it gets to it's max number. Then, have the func_oncounts target the lights. This adds WAY more flexibility (can have random lights come on, also can have it so you have to trigger it to fire the targets), and it has the added benefit of being very easy to configure, since all you have to do is change one value (func_counter's 'wait' value) to make the timing different, whereas, in the first suggestion, you'd have to change all the 'delay' keys in every one of the relays. (no offense, Xenon).

[Reply]


Beta Testing Anyone?
#1432 Posted by necros [172.146.62.250], 17/07/2001 23:09 GMT
I _FINALLY_ tracked down all those f'ing errors. Now I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to beta test for me? I remember Palldjon had offered, but I hadn't be ready at that time. (If your still up for the offer...)

Tomaz Quake prefered, but GLQuake/Software works as well.

[Reply]


Oops, Sorry Xenon,
#1433 Posted by necros [172.146.62.250], 18/07/2001 00:53 GMT , Refers to Post #1430
i just reread your post, and realised that you were right. i stand corrected, however, i still stick by my func_counter idea. Wink

[Reply]


Thanx...
#1434 Posted by Dilvish [172.188.246.153], 18/07/2001 02:34 GMT
...

[Reply]


Damn...
#1435 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 18/07/2001 05:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1434
I think I've still got a tiny little .map at home where I tested the vore jump for pdbq_sp1. If you want it just say so.

BTW, be careful of how many timed lights you use in a particular area. If say the "room" already has some point entity lighting associated with fixtures, and triggering a switch starts a lighting sequence, then you'll very quickly hit the "too many light styles on a face" limit (4 iirc) as each of the switchable lights counts as a different light style even if you've cloned them.

[Reply]


Title
#1436 Posted by Decay [194.106.188.228], 18/07/2001 10:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1427
hmmmm... yeah.

[Reply]


Q2 To Q1 Map Converter
#1437 Posted by Tef Johs [148.122.66.37], 18/07/2001 13:44 GMT
I read somewhere about a small program that converts the .map file from Q2 format to Q1 format, making it possible for instance to use QERadiant for Q1 editing.

Can someone please give me a working link to this utility? It would be most appreciated.

[Reply]


Tef:
#1438 Posted by XeNoN [217.158.29.193], 18/07/2001 17:33 GMT
Well, its at < a http://www.planetquake.com/rem>http://www.planetquake.com/rem if that'll do

[Reply]


Fuck That Tag...
#1439 Posted by XeNoN [217.158.29.193], 18/07/2001 17:35 GMT

[Reply]


Lumiere
#1440 Posted by czg [148.122.66.37], 18/07/2001 18:37 GMT
OK, I can't think of any easy way to explain this, so I'll just make a horrid example. You have two lights. Each can be flipped on/off independently. This setup already uses up the four lightstyles you have available to compile with: 1 - both on, 2 - fist on second off, 3 - first off second on, 4 - both off.
So if you were planning on having a long corridor that lights up as you go along it, you'd have to be pretty clever with "aiming" your lights so they only the faces in their immediate surroundings. And don't even think Quake/tyrlite is clever enough to figure out you're only going to flip them on in that one particular manner so it'd work anyway. Cos it won't!

[Reply]


Thanks Xenon!
#1441 Posted by Tef Johs [148.122.66.37], 18/07/2001 20:26 GMT , Refers to Post #1438
That was exactly the utility I was looking for.

[Reply]


Re: Lumiere
#1442 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112], 19/07/2001 04:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1440
It doesn't quite work like that. Only three light styles would be used in your example - one for the default static lightmap, and one for each different targetname that a light has. When you flip on the lights, the engine combines the lightmaps for all the light styles that are "on".

[Reply]


Nehahra .def File
#1443 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 19/07/2001 08:40 GMT
Does anyone have an entities definition file for use with qeradiant/stoneless for the nehahra entities? Failing that any source file that would help me make one.

Thx

[Reply]


Glassman
#1444 Posted by Bal [213.36.1.110], 19/07/2001 10:58 GMT
what for? Just keep the devkit txt open with ur editor and throw in the entity names and values when u need something, thats how I did for my nehahra maps (and thats how im doing for my in progress maps)
no real need for a def file imho...
(i use qeradiant btw)

[Reply]


Oh Right..
#1445 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 19/07/2001 11:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1444
..I never realised you could just type classname|func_nehent or whatever. Cool, I wasn't looking forward to having to make that :)

[Reply]


Q1 Emiting Light Texes...
#1446 Posted by Jaj [62.83.142.13], 19/07/2001 23:15 GMT
Does anybody know an utility, plugin or a way to make textures can emit light as in Q2&3?
Some time ago, i downloaded a Q1 map that was compiled with that type of light, i don't remember now wich one of these two, base32b or death32c was, but it's sure it's one of them :) .

Well, what i saw wasn't too expectacular, but i'd like to experiment a little with that... so if anybody knows what tool i need and where to get it, i'd appreciate the info ...

[Reply]


Another Question....
#1447 Posted by Jaj [62.83.142.13], 19/07/2001 23:19 GMT
Well, it seems this night i want to know everything,(... maybe it could be the fever heh :)

The question is: Is possible in Q2 to make a weapon respawn in deathmatch when you want, 5, 10 seconds... what you want as in Q3:Arena?
This could go for Q1 too. :)

[Reply]


Jaj
#1448 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 20/07/2001 00:20 GMT
The wacky lighting in death32c was made with an inhouse id tool that never got released, as far as I know. look around cdrom.com archives... you might find interesting and similar stuff.

Q1 can't change weapon respawn times without QC changes; I have no idea about Q2.

[Reply]


Worldcraft 1.6
#1449 Posted by TheToadWarrior [64.91.146.76], 21/07/2001 00:01 GMT
Just a couple quick newbie questions.

For months I've put up with Worldcraft saying it can't find the Quake 2 pallete file and then loading the options menu everytime I start it up. Is there a way to stop it from trying to get me to configure Q2? I'm not gonna be mapping for Q2 anytime soon, if ever, and I'm getting tired of seeing that.

Also, I've made some texture wads for use in Quake maps, is there a way to make it so Worldcraft won't show the file's patch in the pull down menu? The textures that WC extracts from your Q1 directory to make a wad, only has the wad name, not the path. But when I add textures, I get the path and sometimes it can make finding the textures I want a bitch since I can't see the wad names in the pull down menu on WC.

[Reply]


Yes
#1450 Posted by DaZ [213.1.92.199], 21/07/2001 19:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1449
Go to Tools > options > Game config.

in the window where it says "Configuration". Click the edit button next to this window, Find "Quake 2" and click remove. Done...

[Reply]


Oh And
#1451 Posted by DaZ [213.1.92.199], 21/07/2001 19:36 GMT
to question #2. Sorry its not possible, annoying isn't it... Sad <angry> <grrr> etc...

[Reply]


TheToadWarrior Is Still Working On A Title
#1452 Posted by TheToadWarrior [64.91.147.174], 22/07/2001 03:05 GMT
Thanks!

I should have know that, seeing how the edit button is right there. :)

[Reply]


Radiosity In Q1...
#1453 Posted by Jaj [62.175.113.243], 23/07/2001 00:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1448
Well i found something on cdrom called Suckrad, and for the moment i've been unable to compile a .bsp with that Yay!...
i'll keep on trying

Thanks Grahf :)

[Reply]


Compile Help
#1454 Posted by Erebus [195.92.194.14], 23/07/2001 19:33 GMT
Hi, Can you guys help me out?

I have only just really started mapping for Quake I and I am using the default compile utils that come with World Craft.

1st question - is there a better program thanWorld Craft for map making? What do you lot use?

2nd question - is there any better programs to comple my maps with other than the ones that come with World Craft?

Thanks peeps! :)

[Reply]


Narf!
#1455 Posted by czg [130.67.219.90], 23/07/2001 21:54 GMT
1st question: it's all up to you. You may try experimenting with Quoole, Quark, err... Stoneless? BSP? Anything realy that suits what you feel is right. A lot of people use WC, and a lot of people don't. I do.
(Sorry for not providing links. Try to search around for them.)

2nd question: Sure:
QBSP: Try to fid WQbsp version 1.65 off some ftp or perhaps even fileplanet. (Boo Hiss!)
Has transparent water support, and also hipnotic extensions.

Light: Get Tyrlite from Tyrann Read there for info

Vis: Get Rvis+ (Also from Tyrann iirc) or if possible HVis by some guy LordHavoc (Wink)
Both of which are faster, and have progress indicators as well as perhaps more stability.

JGHgOHGHFOI

[Reply]


ToadWarrior...
#1456 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 25/07/2001 00:56 GMT , Refers to Post #1449
That "guessing" which Tex file one was using given the limits of WC gave me the s#$^75 as well, so I created a folder named "Tex" directly off the "C:" path. Now, combined with TexMex, I can name a .wad whatever I like and when I add it to WC, the drop down texture wad selection box looks like this:

(All textures)
c:\tex\zero
c:\tex\q3atest
c:\tex\ikbase
c:\tex\hfx
etc...

After a while one doesn't even notice the small path, just the wad name which is now visible inside that tiny list box.

Hope this helps.

[Reply]


Erebus
#1457 Posted by Lunaran [172.162.145.88], 25/07/2001 16:58 GMT
It takes some faffery, but if you're really leet you can use SleepwalkR's q2->q1 map converter proggie to map in QERadiant 147. It involves some dickering about with textures and batch files, but if you're a Radiant junkie like me it's well worth it.

[Reply]


QW Mapping
#1458 Posted by Chi [24.42.42.55], 25/07/2001 18:41 GMT
Theres 2 things QW dosint do right..

1. the trigger_push entity;

The "speed" command for the trigger_push ent seems to be non existant in QW. When you load a map into a QWSV that has a t_push with the speed command attached to it, an error appears to the effect of "speed is not a value" (cant remember the exact words used). The map loads fine though but when using the t_push ent its at the default value of 1000.. what is the correct command to adjust the speed of the t_push in QW?

2. the messages command;

Basicly the same problem as no.1 but in regards to a Team Fortress specific entity "info_tfgoal" I used the ent to make a resupply pack that was to echo "resupplying.." when picked up.. Unfortunetly the same "message is not a value" error occurs and theres no msg when the pack is picked up..

any help??

[Reply]


Tomlite Trouble
#1459 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.23], 26/07/2001 20:07 GMT
Does anyone know what this means?

----- TomLite .lit support-----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 20 from worldspawn.
881 entities read, 473 are lights.
************ ERROR ************
colour 0 < 0

I will continue my search. Luckily, I always give newly added lights their own Vis-Group... that helps.

[Reply]


Oh Ya...
#1460 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.23], 26/07/2001 20:08 GMT
I had just finished adding a dozen "anti-lights".

[Reply]


Weird Bug Or Quake Feature?
#1461 Posted by Hanz [193.229.72.75], 26/07/2001 21:11 GMT
I was playing sm26_cardo and found a weird thing. A trigger that makes two fiends teleport near you, won't execute unless you're facing in a certain direction (i.e. the direction where the fiends spawn). Now is this a bug or a feature? I haven't seen such trigger before..

[Reply]


Iain
#1462 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 26/07/2001 21:38 GMT , Refers to Post #1460
It is possible that antilights work in tyrlite, but not tomlite (yes, I know they're basically the same). They may not have been tested.

OR, you have a colored light with fux0red keys. I believe it's gotta be

_color "255 255 255"

Or whatever. Mebbe stuff gets messed up if you don't provide all three values.

I dunno, really. Try lighting it in Tyrlite, and see if the same error crops up.

[Reply]


Grahf
#1463 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.13], 26/07/2001 23:30 GMT
Anti-lights worked fine in a test map, and I checked each lights value (no problems there).

All I can think of is that an anti-light is conficting with a colored light. I will break it down... deleting a group of lights, then compiling the map, until I find the culprit.

[Reply]


Hanz
#1464 Posted by XeNoN [217.158.29.192], 27/07/2001 00:16 GMT
If you add a trigger entity without a brush, you can set the "angle" attr to a certain direction , and it will only trigger when player faces that way. It might even work with a brush, but i havent tested it...

[Reply]


Brush Triggers Can Have Angles
#1465 Posted by Fat Controller [203.98.21.44], 27/07/2001 08:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1464
I use the "angle" field with a couple of trigger_multiples in RCDM6 (Grader Spader) to briefly trap the player in the RA/RL spawn area. The trick is that if the trigger's supposed to fire when the player approaches from due east, the "angle" value has to be 360.

It's a little documented feature that has some interesting applications, in theory.

[Reply]


Grahf Is Still Working On A Title
#1466 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 27/07/2001 13:03 GMT
for interesting puzzles at the very least, yes...

[Reply]


Trigger Angles
#1467 Posted by Kell [194.105.160.225], 27/07/2001 15:22 GMT
Yeah, I set the angle for message brush triggers so the player sees them only when walking through a doorway, but not if they backtrack. The skill selection/episode selection messages in the idstart map uses this.

[Reply]


Thanks For The Replies!
#1468 Posted by hanz@elsewhere [193.229.72.75], 27/07/2001 17:21 GMT
nt

[Reply]


Help Me Help Me
#1469 Posted by Mapping [212.119.190.238], 27/07/2001 22:55 GMT
please !

[Reply]


Holy Shit...
#1470 Posted by necros [172.133.28.173], 28/07/2001 21:02 GMT , Refers to Post #1464
you can do that?

/me laughes hysterically at the possibilities

i never once heard about it... But It just gives me an awsome idea for my map!!! =)

[Reply]


Maximum Limitations
#1471 Posted by QuakeTree [63.42.69.45], 28/07/2001 21:17 GMT
Now I know this has been asked before but I was wondering if anyone has all (or at least most) of the brush, entity, lights, map size ect. maximum limitations located in one place. Quake Standards Group was where I though I would find it but I guess that is too logical.

[Reply]


Dfgfggfgfhtjhkujkh
#1472 Posted by czg [130.67.143.97], 28/07/2001 21:56 GMT
Maximum number of brushes: That is completely up to the compiler to decide, as the Quake engine has nothing to do with brushes whatsoever.
Maximum edicts (All non-static entities in the game. The map file may contain many more, though I don't know if there is a limit for that in the compilers. Though if it is, it will probably depend on which compiler you're using.) in normal Quake engine: 600
Map boundaries: 4096 units from the origo in all directions.
The maximum distance that a player can jump and not fall into lava, water, etc.. : 225 units.
The maximum distance that a player can jump straight up and get to another object: 42.5 units.
The maximum distance that a player can fall and not be injured: 275 units.
The minimum gap between brushes the player can fall through: 36 units
The maximum height that a step can be before the player has to jump: 17 units.

[Reply]


Woah...
#1473 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 28/07/2001 23:20 GMT
4096 units from the origo

lol... he meant origin Smile

[Reply]


We Like To Pick On What Czg Says!
#1474 Posted by . [193.229.72.75], 29/07/2001 10:49 GMT
The maximum distance that a player can jump and not fall into lava, water, etc.. : 225 units.
Although with bunny hopping (or actually, a twist jump) this must be something like 300 units.

[Reply]


Actually
#1475 Posted by czg [130.67.143.77], 29/07/2001 13:54 GMT
I did mean origo, which is the mathematical term for the point in the center of all coordinate systems. (0,0,0)
And those distances were blatantly c'n'ped from Zie Ancientsky WorldCraft Sitage which probably was made beofore speedrunning was invented. Hell, it probably was made before Quake was even released!

[Reply]


Wrong
#1476 Posted by Speedy [212.119.190.238], 29/07/2001 14:39 GMT
without bunny its possible to strafejump over 256

[Reply]


Blah...
#1477 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.45], 29/07/2001 17:23 GMT

<XeNoN> what is the mathematical term for the point in the center of all coordinate systems?
<Lun> the origin.
<Lun> you knew that.
<XeNoN> sure?
<Lun> yes, of course.


Smile

[Reply]


Hummm
#1478 Posted by czg [148.122.66.37], 29/07/2001 17:37 GMT
Perhaps origo is some Norwegian phenomenom then...

[Reply]


Fons Et Origo
#1479 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.239.165], 29/07/2001 19:00 GMT
Thats a latin phrase meaning the 'source & origin'

[Reply]


Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1480 Posted by Speedy [212.119.190.238], 30/07/2001 04:50 GMT
sleeptime really..



ship.jpg

[Reply]


Speedy,
#1481 Posted by metlslime [140.142.174.33], 30/07/2001 16:00 GMT
nice pic. Check this one out:

file://c:\quake\id1\quake09.tga

Yay!

[Reply]


Damn You Metl!
#1482 Posted by czg [148.122.66.37], 30/07/2001 17:05 GMT
You had me c'n'ping that into my browser now!

[Reply]


Anyone
#1483 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.179], 30/07/2001 18:22 GMT
have that example .map headshot released showing off how he made the curvy tunnels in bless to kill? i keep looking but can't find it

thanks

[Reply]


3dcamera & Q3R
#1484 Posted by Gilt [64.20.60.155], 31/07/2001 03:21 GMT
I'll admit I didn't look all too hard (I checked the maual though), but can somebody tell me if there is a way to control the camera in Q3R with the mouse like in Worldcraft? I know that if you hold ctr and the 2nd mouse button you'll 'strafe' from side to side but is there any more, and how do I do them?

I'm really hating to use the keyboard for this especially when the keys are placed all over the key board...

[Reply]


Re: 3dcamera & Q3R
#1485 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 31/07/2001 08:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1484
Hold the right mouse button down anywhere over the 3-D view. Depending on where you click & drag you will move in that direction.

[Reply]


Also..
#1486 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 31/07/2001 08:24 GMT
You can change all the key assignments by editing the radiant.ini file (thats what its called in qer anyway, might be different in q3r).

[Reply]


Notray: Pseudo-curved Tunnel
#1487 Posted by Speedy [212.119.190.238], 31/07/2001 15:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1483
www.planetquake.com/speedy/ct.map (decon.wad)

not headshots, but much like that
and look @ czg`s stuff/tuts

[Reply]


Thanks Glassman
#1488 Posted by Gilt [64.20.60.200], 31/07/2001 20:01 GMT
but using the right mouse button like that has never worked for me. only the ctrl/strafe one works... anyway I'll keep on trying stuff, maybe reinstall...

also I can't find radiant.ini. I've looked through some of the files but there's nothing that immidiatley looks like a command list... again I'll keep looking now that I know it might exist

[Reply]


Thanks Speed
#1489 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.179], 01/08/2001 04:09 GMT
but that .map file does relatively little, if any, good for me


and yeah i've looked at czg's tutorial, i just can't figure out what axis he built that arch on to begin with, as he never explains where his pov is in each section that he adds. (this makes it quite hard for me to try to map along with in wc, obvoiiusly)

[Reply]


Even Though
#1490 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.179], 01/08/2001 04:23 GMT
now that i think about it it doesn't make a difference too much

still can't come out with anything remotely close to what is in the final product

[Reply]


Gilt
#1491 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 01/08/2001 08:44 GMT , Refers to Post #1488
hmm..R-click & drag should work. Praps you have a video card problem or something.

& no there isn't a radiant.ini with q3r. There is with qer so I thought it would be the same. Guess that means you can't reassign keys unless anyone knows different.

[Reply]


Err
#1492 Posted by Speedy [195.131.50.206], 01/08/2001 23:13 GMT
Ray, I dont see whats your problem ?
and the axis doesnt matter - you can rotate/flip it.
pq/binarishy (I`m sure the spelling is wrong)
contains the best tutorials on "curved pipes"
Imagine: the pipe that`s curved into spiral

[Reply]


An Hour Later..
#1493 Posted by Speedy [195.131.50.206], 01/08/2001 23:15 GMT
I looked closer at`Bless to kill`
It indeed uses diffrent brushwork than that in my previous example.
The result looks smoother, and has extra pollys, but it`s more easy to create btw.
I`v recreated that corridor. It has exactly the same proportions (sounds like I have nothing else to do ;)
www.planetquake.com/speedy/cor.zip

Hope it helps.
You might want to visit Pingu`s site - he has .map files of his levels. He uses the similar technique in creating curvy walkways.

[Reply]


Speedy...
#1494 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 02/08/2001 07:55 GMT
I've been using CZG style curves recently but THAT was exactly what I've been looking for.

j00 r001 Beer

[Reply]


WANTED
#1495 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.79.153], 02/08/2001 18:12 GMT
A program which can convert static .mdl files to .map format. Is this possible?

[Reply]


And About That Curved Tunnel...
#1496 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.132.116], 02/08/2001 18:53 GMT
That curved tunnel is actually not that different from the so-called "CZG-curve" tunnel. Only from an XY view, the tunnel bends round a curve with edges 1:4, 1:1 and 4:1, rather than the simpler 1:2, 2:1 curves CZG demonstrated in his tutorial. The former may appear to give a smoother curve but when you take 4 of either curve, they both form a 12-sided prism. And seeing as the 1:2, 2:1 curve's vertices meet the grid using twice the grid value as the headshot one, I'd say it was more efficient... and yes I've made my own dumb little demo map showing off czg's style as well... http://www.planetquake.com/xenon/files/cor2.zip

[Reply]


Worldcraft Full
#1497 Posted by Arch [216.67.71.47], 02/08/2001 19:02 GMT
quake loads fine , in q2 when i run map,i keep getting error could not make
bsp or incorrect path,it took me forever to get wc to locate my pak files,but it
finally loaded,not to swift on all of this,thick head i guess,hehe age 68,so if any
one has a big sledge hammer,,maybe ya can help this cogger out

[Reply]


Arch Is Still Working On A Title
#1498 Posted by Arch [216.67.7.198], 02/08/2001 21:14 GMT
help with wc,,please

[Reply]


Xenon, My Dear
#1499 Posted by Speedy [195.131.1.101], 02/08/2001 22:56 GMT
Do you have any problems with arithmetics ?
its 16 sided, not 12
LOL

[Reply]


Fuck All That Then...
#1500 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.57], 02/08/2001 23:43 GMT
Heh, I just opened it up in the editor and seen how much balls those dimensions suck Yay!. Anyway... my point is, if you'd used the 3 diagonals: 3:1, 1:1 and 1:3 (not 4:1 as I said before...d'oh) then you would get exactly the same effect as you did with your thing, and I thought it DID use those diagonals. Only then did I notice it had all been done by skewing :/
Really, this isn't the best way to go about it... the flat ceiling is around 4.5 times wider halfway along the tunnel as it is at the ends, AND there are more skewed wedges on the inside than there are on the outside of the curve... If you still want proof: check the comparison...

Speedycurve

XeNoNcurve

Decide for yourself which is more accurate...

[Reply]


Hehehe...
#1501 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 03/08/2001 00:17 GMT
corridoor wars...

[Reply]


Hey Whats The Problem ?
#1502 Posted by Speedy [195.131.96.126], 03/08/2001 01:04 GMT
hey whats the problem ?
It`s not corridor war. use whatever looks best for you. I was just trying to figure out how the one in bless2kill was done, and help Ray (since he didnt like my earlier example).

Btw, both curves are done by skewing. And there is the same number of skewed wedges on the inside and on the outside. Sorry to point you your mistake again ;)

[Reply]


Question For An Experienced Radiant User
#1503 Posted by Golgo13 [64.194.149.245], 03/08/2001 01:30 GMT
Ok.. this is what I'm getting in the console:

entering C Games/QUAKEI~1/baseq3/maps/metro.map

FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
FloatPlane: bad normal
************ ERROR ************
MAX_BUILD_SIDE
Q3Map v1.0p (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.


I've searched around the net for the error and found that is "Caused by faulty vertex manipulation". I deleted everything I had done up to the point I started getting the error... same thing. Deleted like 1/2 the map at this point and still get it. I searched around for maybe a misplaced brush or anything but cant find anything outta the ordinary. No overlapping brushes (that I could find).

Running outta things to try and in a state of hopelessness I ran it through Mapspy (I know, for Q2 but I was in a panic), and it said that there was a problem with my .map file and that it would need to be edited by hand. Yeah right! Have you ever looked at one of those!!!! ... but it is a Q2 prog and could be wrong.

I even reinstalled GTK 1.1 and QR 2.02 to no avail.

Am I doomed? What other things should I be looking for... any troubleshooting advice?

Thanks for anyhelp!!!

- Golgo13

ICQ - 4580012
E*mail - Golgo13@telocity.com
Web - www.alter-ego.cc

[Reply]


Er...? What Is This Again?
#1504 Posted by necros [64.12.102.66], 03/08/2001 02:00 GMT
"Error: SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set"

when crashing from quake.

[Reply]


MAX_BUILD_SIDES
#1505 Posted by pjw [208.192.76.75], 03/08/2001 02:37 GMT
Basically means you have a brush (or brushes) that is too weird for QMap to deal with. Do you have a single brush with a whole bunch of sides, maybe created by mucho clipping?

Sometimes while you're using a lot of vertex manip. in odd ways, a brush can simply be popped out of existence and disappear from the editor view, but still be in the map screwing things up. This might be the case here. Depending on how many brushes you're dealing with, you could try saving your map under a different name, then select all (just hit "I") and give everything one texture (say, caulk). Then select the brushes that you can see by hand, and give them all, say, concrete. At that point the only caulk brush should be the problematic one that you can't see. Check the map file for the caulk brush, make a note of the brush number, then open up your original map, select it by brush number, and delete it. Good luck! Smile

[Reply]


Mdl -> .map
#1506 Posted by NotoriousRay [141.157.89.179], 03/08/2001 02:48 GMT
www.planetquake.com/gg has a mdl to map converter
be warned, its made for modelling low poly terrain and importing in a map editor, not for like, taking the ogre.mdl and converting it to a map

i've tried, mucho errors during compiling

[Reply]


No Problem Speedy...
#1507 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.28], 03/08/2001 03:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1502
peace, lurv, and friendship to all. Just found it amusing in a *cough* twisted kind of way. I've found both posted methods extremely useful. Beer

[Reply]


Arch
#1508 Posted by Abyss [203.29.150.4], 03/08/2001 07:15 GMT
You could go to "The Forge"
www.planetquake.com/worldcraft/index2.shtm
and there you can find Tutorials and all sorts of other stuff which may be of benifit to you. I think there is also a bit there on how to set up Worldcraft. I think I still have it somewhere, if you can't find it, and would like it, I will try to track it down and can send it to you.
Also you could try Z-Axis
http://zaxis.stomped.com/
Where you can also find some tutorials specifically for Worldcraft.
Hope that's of some help.
Good Luck

[Reply]


Mega-question!
#1509 Posted by famillionaire [24.11.172.95], 03/08/2001 08:15 GMT
Is it possible to somehow extract the lightmaps from a bsp after compile and edit them in, say, photoshop, and then get them back into the bsp? Does anyone else think it would kick and incredible amount of ass to be able to do this?

[Reply]


Lightmap Editing
#1510 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 03/08/2001 08:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1509
Yes that would be quite cool but no you can't do it AFAIK... yet. The next version of Q3ASE will support it for Quake 3 and there's been some posts about it on Quake 3 World. Don't know about any other games, but it would generally be a kick-ass tool to have.

[Reply]


Lightmap Editing In Q3
#1511 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 03/08/2001 09:34 GMT , Refers to Post #1509
Quake3World thread

[Reply]


Beta Testing Help!
#1512 Posted by Decay [194.106.188.250], 03/08/2001 13:44 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen:
My previously mentioned space fast jumpad action map “the Praetorian” is posted out on ..::LVL beta section. It is actually finished and, considering that it is my first map, I would really appreciate some advices and beta testing.
If you need some convincing …Tigger-oN’s first impression was: “…very, very nice…”
Here’s a link:
http://www.planetquake.com/lvl/beta/betacomments.asp?id=727
Thanks
Decay
PS Please put your comments there, I don’t think this forum was made for that type of discussions.

[Reply]


Speedy:
#1513 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.132.6], 03/08/2001 17:30 GMT
Sorry to carry this on, but it wasn't a mistake:
http://www.planetquake.com/xenon/img/misc/curve2a.jpg
Yay!

And its not part of the (now finished) argument, but I've also uploaded a version of my previous curve prefab which curves around 1/4 of a 24 sided prism. Checkit.

[Reply]


Beta Testing For N3sp03
#1514 Posted by necros [172.158.180.180], 04/08/2001 03:25 GMT
Just leave a post here or email me or somethin' and I'll give you the link. (Intended for SP, Vanilla Quake Smile) with a slightly modified Progs.dat... (Whole thing is about 3~4mb zipped.)

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1515 Posted by famillionaire [24.11.172.95], 04/08/2001 05:03 GMT
Thanks for the link, shallow, and I also just found this if anyone else is interested in lightmap editing: bspparse, but I haven't figured out how to work it yet. The source is there, anyone feel like writing a GUI for it?

[Reply]


Your Wrong Xenon
#1516 Posted by Speedy [194.84.255.193], 04/08/2001 19:20 GMT
how cant you see the obvious ? ;)

[Reply]


SPEEDY!!
#1517 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.136.31], 04/08/2001 20:28 GMT
a) 12
b) 123


SPOT THE DIFFERENCE!!

[Reply]


Your Hopless..
#1518 Posted by Speedy [194.84.255.193], 05/08/2001 02:39 GMT
bother to look in other view than XY ?

[Reply]


And By The Way
#1519 Posted by Speedy [194.84.255.193], 05/08/2001 02:40 GMT
Why do you argue ? I`v made that shit myself. I know better how many parts are there

[Reply]


Speedy
#1520 Posted by XeNoN [213.120.56.45], 05/08/2001 16:28 GMT
well, I did say against the CEILING! not the wall! 4 wedges on the outside curve have an edge which is adjacent to the visible ceiling, like i pointed out. I know there are 5 (actually 10) wedges there, but only 4 of which visibly meet the ceiling...

Cant you understand???

[Reply]


No Really,
#1521 Posted by necros [172.173.70.179], 05/08/2001 23:23 GMT
n3sp03 really needs to get tested. As it stands, it's only 2mb. come on, you know you want to test it. ;)

[Reply]


TheToadWarrior Is Still Working On A Title
#1522 Posted by TheToadWarrior [64.91.144.67], 06/08/2001 06:55 GMT
Just a quick shader question, anyone know of a shader to do a mirror on textures?

Yes, I admit I'm too lazy to look through Id's shaders and since it may not be for a map, I can't just use GTKRadiant.

[Reply]


Toadwarrior
#1523 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 06/08/2001 18:30 GMT
there must be one somewhere; note the mirror in q3dm0....

Also note that your fps drop like a rock in front of the mirror...

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Censored
#1524 Posted by zclub.boom.ru [62.118.139.98], 06/08/2001 23:35 GMT
Post censored by moderator (Scampie).

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Tyrelight (TomLite)
#1525 Posted by QuakeTree [63.46.241.39], 07/08/2001 03:05 GMT
I was fooling around with tomlite and tried to get the sky brushes to emit "sunlight" but I am getting nowhere. Here is what it looks like in the .map file:

"classname" "worldspawn"
"worldtype" "0"
"message" "in progress"
"wad" "D:\canyon12.wad"
"_sunlight" "100"
"_sun_mangle" "120, -75 ,0"

There is absolutely no light at all emiting from the sky (except of course for the normal "Hey! I can see the sky up there")

I tried various mangle settings with no luck.

Anything helpfull would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Re: Tyrelight <- It's TyrLite Actually
#1526 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 07/08/2001 05:00 GMT
Try taking out the commas in your _sun_mangle key. There should just be a single space between each number.

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Tyr(no"e") Lite
#1527 Posted by QuakeTree [63.42.74.66], 07/08/2001 08:10 GMT
Sorry tyrann, I tried that first (I did RTFM). Then I played around with the comma's Then I came here.

I did find out the source of my problem though...

It was the QBSP program I was using, QBSP256c did not apparently like, understand or even let me know that it ignored the extra commands. I guess I'll have to look for another one to use <sigh>.

Any suggestions out there for the "best" QBSP compiler out there (and plz say why and not just that my favorite is "insert name here" and it is the best one ever).

Thanks again all.

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QBSP Compilers
#1528 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.115], 07/08/2001 13:55 GMT
There's basically two camps on what is the best qbsp compiler. One is WQBSP and the other is TreeBSP.

I'm in the TreeBSP camp.

TreeBSP has basically no limitations on the size of map that you compile, and it uses much less memory than the others.

I'm not sure what it is that makes WQBSP stand out for others...

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Tomlite Is Fucked
#1529 Posted by DaZ [213.122.103.139], 07/08/2001 14:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1525
And sunlight doesn't work, your everything right but Tomlites shoved its own ass up its own nostils... Tomaz says he is trying to fix it (I think).

It is very annoying cos I need tomlite to work on my Bnayni maps... <mad>

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Tomlite:
#1530 Posted by necros [172.141.113.165], 07/08/2001 18:09 GMT
As it stands, Tomlite does NOT do colored Sunlight, However, it will light uncolored sky light. If you have _color keys on ANY lights in your entire map, then the sky will not work. For the sky to work, either use normal tyrlite (and you won't be able to generate a .lit file) or don't put ANY colored lights in your map. All in all, you basically can't have any color either way if you want to use the sun... sucks eh?

Tyrann, why don't you make Tyrlite output .lit files then? =)

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HES GOT A POINT TTRANN!
#1531 Posted by DaZ [62.7.27.3], 07/08/2001 22:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1530

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Hmm, No Title
#1532 Posted by czg [130.67.143.70], 07/08/2001 22:23 GMT
And the winner of "Scariest qmap post ever" goes to...
<drumroll>
DAZ!!!!!!!!!!

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Treeqbsp:
#1533 Posted by Speedy [195.131.94.84], 07/08/2001 23:27 GMT
It can`t read more than 1 wad from worldspawn
or am I doing smth wrong ?

Actually I use qbs that comes with BSP editor - it has all features wqbsp has and an advanced portal output for leakfinding within the editor.

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Btw
#1534 Posted by Speedy [195.131.94.84], 07/08/2001 23:30 GMT
older tomlight does everything fine
The lated version is totally fucked imo.
Get tomlighte 1 (or what`s the number)

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.
#1535 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 07/08/2001 23:32 GMT , Refers to Post #1533
your obviously doing something wrong becuase treebsp fully supports multiple wads.

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Is There A Maximum 'light' Value ...
#1536 Posted by Bascule [134.146.9.2], 08/08/2001 03:40 GMT
In Quake 1 light entities, i.e., a light level that equates to 'fullbright'.
I don't seem to get much change after about 800, but is there a true maximum?

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Re: Treeqbsp
#1537 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.115], 08/08/2001 05:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1533
TreeBSP supports BSP's special leak format. Just run with "-bspleak" on the command line.

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Scary?
#1538 Posted by DaZ [213.1.134.227], 08/08/2001 12:25 GMT
where? Smile

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Psst...
#1539 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.116], 08/08/2001 14:05 GMT
Can someone please mail me the TomLite source?
3D downloads isn't working for me...

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Bascule
#1540 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 08/08/2001 17:08 GMT
I *think* that a light level of 255 is considered "fullbright." Higher light values in your light entity will just cause your light to spread fullbrightness over a larger area.

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Help Doors!!
#1541 Posted by Scruffian [24.255.196.47], 08/08/2001 18:42 GMT
I cant make door meshes please HELP ME!!

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255
#1542 Posted by necros [172.139.58.248], 08/08/2001 20:43 GMT , Refers to Post #1540
is indeed the max light level.

Dunno why this is... (would have been more intuitive if max light had bee 100 or something even, but oh well... I mean, look at the ammo counters =)

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Byte?
#1543 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 08/08/2001 21:09 GMT , Refers to Post #1542
.

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I Figure
#1544 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 08/08/2001 21:11 GMT
that the error 'vismap expansion overflow' means that the map is too large and/or complex. I'm getting this and want to make sure that I'm approaching fixing it, the right way.

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1545 Posted by Speedy [195.131.96.22], 09/08/2001 01:29 GMT
I uploaded an older proper tomlite to my site www.planetquake.com/speedy/tomlite.zip

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Ummmmm...?
#1546 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 09/08/2001 05:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1541
we'll need to know Game, Version and Editor before that question makes any sense.

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Quiver Editor?
#1547 Posted by Dan Reynolds [195.99.125.204], 09/08/2001 13:28 GMT
Does anyone know about the editor Quiver for the Mac? I tried to download it from www.quiver.telefragged.com, but I can't get it, and the guy's email doesn't work.
Thanks,
Dan

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Hmm, No Title
#1548 Posted by StarBUCK [213.122.54.237], 09/08/2001 13:44 GMT
Hey Dan,
try this LINK

That was the only one i could find that would work for me

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Tronyn
#1549 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 09/08/2001 15:04 GMT
I would imagine that (along with everything else in Quake) there is a limit to the visdata size, and it certainly sounds like you're hitting it. Running a level 4 vis will compress the data, I know but you're probably already doing that, so....

Try using detail brushes. The only PC compilers I know of that support detail are Malmberg's Quest compilers (if you happen to have a spare Mac, try the eQuake utils). I think that both are imperfect implementations of detail brushes; they won't be included in vis calculations, but they will still split the BSP.

Thusly, just make all the pointy and detailed bits in your map into detail, leaving the larger, more important pieces of architecture that DO block lots of line of sight. That alone will reduce vis complexity by a lot.

It's basically the same concept as making stuff into func_wall, it just won't slow thing down the way func_wall does.

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Thanks
#1550 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 10/08/2001 04:30 GMT , Refers to Post #1549
Thanks I think that'll work... actually the map is Q2-engine... so I'm trying to cut the area size and implement detail brushes.

But I may trying to make a Q1 version too so thanks in advance :)

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Short Sighted Scrags
#1551 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 10/08/2001 05:16 GMT
CZG03 raised quite a few questions for me as a mapper, and I'll raise them here and there. However, to kick things off:

At one point in the level I popped out onto a ledge and could see two Scrags floating side by side far off in the distance. They didn't react so I assumed they had their backs to me. However, when I hit "zoom" I observed that they were facing my direction. I jumped up and down, moved around, waved my axe at them and called them names. No reaction. It wasn't until I pulled out the shotgun and took a pop at them that they came charging across the intervening distance. So...

1. Can Quake monsters only "see" so far?
2. If yes, how far and does it vary from monster to monster?

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Yes.
#1552 Posted by Fat Controller [203.98.21.44], 10/08/2001 06:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1551
Quake monsters can only see players less than 1000 units away.

To adjust this, edit the range() function in AI.QC to some preferred value. Yes, this means making a mod and compiling a progs.dat.

Another way of getting around this is to use a silent trigger_once to alert the beasties.

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Ta ...
#1553 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 10/08/2001 08:56 GMT , Refers to Post #1552
the obese one does it again Smile

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Trigger What?
#1554 Posted by Apollo [213.123.19.33], 10/08/2001 19:13 GMT
The monsters? Give em a target name?

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Yes...
#1555 Posted by Toady [195.163.229.161], 10/08/2001 20:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1554
if you target a monster with a trigger, the monster will "awake" when the trigger is activated...

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Gameplay Type Question...
#1556 Posted by necros [172.148.46.95], 13/08/2001 00:56 GMT
Ok, here's the story:

You go on a lift, and it starts going up. When you reach the top, there are two fiends fighting 4 knights. Obviously, the fiends win. You walk up to them, and they ignore you. So you say to yourself, they must be 'nice' fiends. To the side, you see a cage with 6 other fiends, and you guess they are 'nice' as well. Anyway, you continue walking and turn a corner. All of a sudden, you hear the sound of MULTIPLE Hell Knights seeing you.

What I want to do is have a switch which opens the cage and lets the remaining 'nice' fiends out, to fight the Hell Knights. How would I go about doing that without making it too obscure or silly?

Quake

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Re: Detail Brushes
#1557 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.3.6], 13/08/2001 12:33 GMT , Refers to Post #1550
always use detail brushes in Q2/Q3 editing.. speeds up compile times, and can sometimes even lower r_speeds.

Hell my map Nexus4, which is about 2100 brushes VISes in about 45 secs.. I believe before using detail brushes it took around ~1 hour.

anyway how big is this map your doing?? must be huge.. ive only run into that error once before on a huge map that took almost the entire map grid. hehe

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Gameplay Solution
#1558 Posted by Krash [203.19.8.248], 13/08/2001 14:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1556
Have a simple button (maybe you have to do something to get to it), and put a custom tex above the button, saying "test specimen release" or something to that effect.

- Krash

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Re: Detail Brushes
#1559 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 14/08/2001 01:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1557
Yes, it is rather massive! Almost 3000 brushes and takes up most of the whole map. And its a DM map too! In addition there are 3 large hollow dome structures made of many vertex-edited wedges(all details now). Still getting the error - suppose I just have to keep making more and more things detail brushes and simplifying the map (me cries).

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A Q1 Problem Now...
#1560 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 14/08/2001 01:28 GMT
A map. 3304 brushes. 21285 faces. 714 point entities. 153 solid entities.

*Frustration*

Treeqbsp sayeth: "Error 56: line 8: Token too large"

Wqbsp and normal Qbsp both sayeth: "Error: numbrushplanes == MAX_MAP_PLANES"

Qbsp256c doesn't even try compiling, it just complains about the wads (perhaps it doesn't support multiple wads).

Prior to this I had the error "MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES" which I think I solved by clipping a lot of detailed brushes off with cubes.

I thought this might have something to do with 12-sided cylinders (too many faces perhaps) but the same thing occurs when all of the ones in the map have been deleted.

Any ideas?



And I'm *still* getting general protection fault on that goddamn SoE map - it's only 2100 brushes for god's sake!

Oh, the humanity...

-Tronyn

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Update!
#1561 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 14/08/2001 02:17 GMT
I have gotten qbsp256c working with the max_map_planes map, however, *it* merely does its usual compilation process and cuts off like so:

510brushfaces = 517brushfaces = 524brushfaces = 530brushfaces = 536brushfaces = 542bru

(WC then reports 'the file nj2.bsp was not created, do you want to continue, blah blah)

[Reply]


Tronyn
#1562 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.116], 14/08/2001 03:47 GMT , Refers to Post #1560
Email me the maps and wads. I'll help.

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And Some Other Stuff
#1563 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 14/08/2001 05:23 GMT
Tyrann: I really appreciate the offer, but are you sure you want to delve into more technical frustrations, given what your new Q1SP is doing to your sanity?

BTW if there's anything I can do to help with that, I'd be glad to.

And now (drum roll), the strangest QBSP occurrence I've yet come across, in another soe map. There is a leak in the map, and I know where it is. So I try to plug it, I've tried various ways. But no matter which way I plug it, I get a 'mixed contents in leafnode' error.

I know what causes this error. There is no sky or water anywhere near the leak. There are no solid entities near the leak. I have even moved *point* entities away from the leak. I have selected everything near the leak, put the same solid texture on all of it, and bound it all 'to world.' Yet still the error persists! It cannot be, and yet there it is! I say that it is impossible for such an occurence to be, and there it is, right in front of my face! How could that be?

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OK
#1564 Posted by Fat Controller [203.98.21.44], 14/08/2001 07:44 GMT , Refers to Post #1556
I have no idea how you're making "nice" fiends. I assume, given you've done some QC work before, that you worked this out.

To raise the bars of the cage, just target a func_door that's made from the bars. Set "wait" to -1 (stays open).

If you want "tame" fiends from scratch, I'd suggest altering the monster start routines in AI.QC and findtarget() to automatically aim for any monster whose "targetname" matches one's own "target". To prevent the monsters from immediately attacking on map startup, try giving them "targetname" values in turn; but then you'd have to alter the monster_use() function so the monsters activated didn't go for you.

When originally writing the OUM code, I wanted the Blues to self-target ordinary monsters and vice versa. However the extra processing required killed that idea real quick!

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Tronyn
#1565 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.3.40], 14/08/2001 14:32 GMT
if i had Q1 installed I would try to help ya.. but man that is quite a big map for Q1.

good luck

[Reply]


Tronyn
#1566 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 14/08/2001 22:14 GMT
Run to the QuakeLab right now. I just did, and here's what I found:

"Token too large" means that line in the .map file, in your case line 8, is too long for that QBSP too handle. I'd guess that's where your wad paths are.

MAX_MAP_PLANES is a static limit in QBSP, apparently set to 8192. If you have the source code to a compiler, you could of course go in and increase this, which would also increase the memory requirements. But shit, as long as it compiles... ;) What exactly max_map_planes is, and how it could be decreased another way, I don't really know. Quick, someone call SPoG! ;-)

There's also an interesting solution to a recurring "mixed face contents in leafnode" error, the symptoms of which sound similar to yours

[Reply]


Heh,
#1567 Posted by necros [172.159.31.66], 14/08/2001 22:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1564
i know how to open a door. =)

Actually, I meant what would be a good way to make it obvious to the player that he's got to release the nice fiends to help him out...
But I got it figured out anywhoo...

Also, a good way to have monsters target each other (without much code change) is to create a new trigger (trigger_piss) and have it only get activated by monsters. That way, other monsters can 'activate' each other, and cause infighting without prior damage. (this is what i did, and it works rather well.)

but thx.

[Reply]


Oh, Btw
#1568 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 14/08/2001 22:23 GMT
That Q2 map of yours, Tronyn, with the "vismap expansion overflow" error... Now, 1337 Q2 mappers can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't q2 detail brushes still included in VIS calculations? Cuz, if so, it seems that that wouldn't solve the problem. The only thing I can think of, then, would be to section off the large areas of the map into smaller compartments, so that you wouldn't be able to see so much from the main areas.

Having never mapped for Q2, I don't really know WTF I am talking about.

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About Detail Bruhes
#1569 Posted by Jaj [62.83.142.231], 14/08/2001 23:28 GMT
I think Qvis3 ignores detail brushes, that's why the time required to vis a map is lesser.

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Quakelab
#1570 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 14/08/2001 23:34 GMT
Yeah I did check there not long after posting. I fixed the 'Token Too Large' thing but still run into the Max_map_planes.

So now all I need is someone who can edit a qbsp compiler! heheh...

As for the mixed contents in leafnode, this error hates me personally. In one of my rapture maps it was caused by (drum roll) - a normal block of sky! I think dragging it through the mud is the only way to get through (there is no 'around') this one.

finally, on the Q2 engine map, I think that detail brushes are ignored by vis - otherwise what do they do? And also I have cut visibility much with skywalls. But apparently I haven't done enough of either of these, yet...

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That Map Has To Birth!
#1571 Posted by Jaj [62.83.22.212], 15/08/2001 01:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1570
Wqbsp165 has a limit for Max_map_planes of 16384.
You've said you've tried with Wqbsp, but if it wasn't the 1.65 version, then try with this version, maybe... :)
If you don't have it and want it to, i could mail it.

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Or... Has To Be Born!
#1572 Posted by Jaj [62.83.22.212], 15/08/2001 01:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1571
well, you understand me... i hope Yay!

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Re: MAX_MAP_PLANES
#1573 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 15/08/2001 01:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1570
Use TreeBSP. It is good for that sort of thing...

Note that there is a hard limit for MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES at 32767, since they are indexed in the bsp using a 16-bit signed number.

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Treebsp
#1574 Posted by Jaj [62.83.22.212], 15/08/2001 01:25 GMT
It's what i was to recommend, i found with google here:
Treebsp

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Qbsp Logic
#1575 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 15/08/2001 01:50 GMT
If leak = true then compile map
Else crash

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Re: Other Posts
#1576 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 15/08/2001 01:53 GMT
This deals with a completely different problem from post 1575 (on that, God help us all).

I actually do have Treeqbsp, Wqbsp (1.65), Qbsp256c and regular Qbsp. I try bsp'ing with them all.

The clipnodes thing is no problem. Clipnodes can be cut down by using the clip texture to seal things off, which I've done.

It's the max_map_planes which gets me. It seems the only way to get by this is to up the max_map_planes number in the compiler through source code editing. Such a thing is beyond me, though.

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Noisy Neighbours...
#1577 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 15/08/2001 01:59 GMT
n3sp3 has also raised a question for me.

In the silver-key/pent room, after one disposes of the fifty million Knights of various description and the shamblers, try moving into the corners in turn. In one of the corners you can hear the grunts praying..."Arche angel, dark angel etc,etc." However, when one noclips and explores the void, one finds that the prayer room is a long way from the SK/P room.

1. Necros, did you bump the volume on that "prayer" sample in relation to normal ambient sounds?
2. What is the range in units for normal quake ambient sounds?
3. Do all quake ambient sounds have the same range?

thx

[Reply]


Palldjon
#1578 Posted by Grahf [24.51.159.51], 15/08/2001 02:14 GMT
I think that what he did was use a custom entity that is triggered as you open the door to the mucho grunt room, and just plays any sound at full volume.

As for the actual Quake ambients... yeah, they're all the same range, i'm pretty sure, but how far I dunno.

Tronyn: I was wrong; of course detail brushes in Q2 don't block VIS.

[Reply]


Ta Grahf...
#1579 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 15/08/2001 02:49 GMT , Refers to Post #1578
RC can you help on the range in units?

[Reply]


Re: Q2 Map
#1580 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.68.161], 15/08/2001 02:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1576
hey Tronyn..

if u are still having problems coming that Q2 map.. i have a bit of experience gettin problem maps to compile, either threw using detail brushes, hints/skip, ect...

if you want send the .map source (zipped please).. to shadowdane@planetquake.com

i'll take a look at it.. see what I can do.

[Reply]


Tronyn
#1581 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.113], 15/08/2001 04:19 GMT , Refers to Post #1576
Are you talking about soe1m1c by any chance? If so, then there were things that I could see in the compiled bsp I had a while back that should be fixed.

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Tyrann
#1582 Posted by Tronyn(2) [24.66.244.58], 15/08/2001 05:42 GMT , Refers to Post #1581
Soe1m1's problem is, to the best of my knowledge, a 'mixed contents in leafnode' error which presents itself UNLESS there is a leak in the map. No matter where the leak is, if there's a leak, the map will compile. No leaks = no bsp. Email me the changes you figure I should make though.

The vismap overflow Q2-engine map I'm sending to Shadowdane, hopefully he can figure it out.

The max_map_clipnodes (fixed), too many static entities (fixed), max_map_planes is a 'Night Journey' map, so no rush on that, but apparently there is no way short of compiler-altering to fix it.

The 'general protection fault' upon trying to load Quake is in soe1m2. Been struggling with this for a while too.

Hmm, what other problems do I have?

BTW, it's not because I'm more error-prone than the next mapper (though that may be) but rather because I have so many damned maps!

[Reply]


TreeQBSP V1.63
#1583 Posted by Speedy [213.221.48.22], 15/08/2001 16:20 GMT
Removed most hard-coded limits (MAX_MAP_PLANES, MAX_MAP_etc)
....
If that doesnt work, then .. uhm
May be its just the case when you better split the map into 2.
And for mixed content you can get it (sometimes) when sky tex is applyed over faces, not the whole brush..

Hope that helps

[Reply]


Ambience...
#1584 Posted by necros [172.138.105.241], 16/08/2001 17:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1577
Palldjon:

All sounds played in quake have different 'attenuation' settings which define how far away you can hear a sound (much like Tyrlite has the attenuation setting for lights). They Are: ATTN_NONE (This plays the sound Full Volume through the entire level)
ATTN_NORM (Normal attenuation for sounds from Monsters and weapons. This one is the one with the longest 'reach').
ATTN_IDLE (Slightly shorter reach, and used for *gasp* Monster idle sounds).
ATTN_STATIC (Used for... waddaya know? Static Ambient Sounds! =) Also has the 'shortest reach'.

The sound clip from the CoF CD is 6sec 68msec, so all i did was make an entity which counts to 6.68sec and plays the sound at ATTN_NORM, then recounts and so on...

Really dumb, since all the entity does is play that one sound... Kind of silly but oh well. I'm not trying to win an QC awards...

[Reply]


Not Dumb...
#1585 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.18], 17/08/2001 00:43 GMT , Refers to Post #1584
I thought the effect was excellent. I heard the sample and thought, "WTF." Then when the set piece came into view I just stood and gaped for a while. "Hmmmmmmm, this is rather chilling." Thank goodness the grunts weren't triggered whilst I stood there flat footed =)

Only suggestion I would have made would be replace ATTN_NORM with ATTN_IDLE for that particular sample.

Thanx for the heads up on the sound attenuation stuff.../me goes to write in my Quake book of shadows. Beer

[Reply]


Sound Range In Q1
#1586 Posted by Nightbringer [203.97.2.243], 17/08/2001 04:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1579
maximum hearable distance = 1000/attenuation
"everywhere" for atten = 0.
ATTN_NONE is 0, increasing to ATTN_STATIC, which is 3. You don't have to use the constants; use other (floating-point) values if you like, up to 4-(1/64). (it gets sent over the network as (byte)atten*64)

[Reply]


D'oh!
#1587 Posted by Tronyn(@) [24.66.244.58], 17/08/2001 20:46 GMT
Through a combination of doing various things that may or may not have helped, and using the latest version of TreeQBSP, I have gotten my max_map_planes level to compile.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Unfortunately, Quake doesn't like it (crashes). Quake's comments on the subject are as follows:

Error: SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set

hopefully someone knows what this is supposed to mean, because I certainly don't.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1588 Posted by Jaj [62.83.17.183], 19/08/2001 01:55 GMT , Refers to Post #1587
I can only think that if you're not vised the map, perhaps vising it..... or if it is only vised in normal maybe vising it with full option... and if it's vised it with full, i can't think of anything else, except that the error message could be caused by a lot of people in it? Tongue
I say this, because some time ago i experimented putting in a level a lot of soldiers together... the level loaded but when they started to fire Quake crashed and i obtained that error message i think, not sure.

[Reply]


Q3r For Q1 Mappage
#1589 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.139], 26/08/2001 22:47 GMT
is there a way to setup q3r to have default texturescale 1 not 0,5
like in config or somwhere ? To use it for q1 mapping.

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Radiant For Q1
#1590 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [217.158.43.50], 27/08/2001 00:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1589
Is there a map converter for Q3 to Q1 format that I don't know about? The only one I know (SleepwalkR's) about converts Q2 map files. Unless he updated it and I didn't hear.

If you use QER 147 for Quake 2, it has the same texture scaling as Q1 so it isn't a problem

(Er, so I can't actually answer the question you asked, then)

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Hmm, No Title
#1591 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.139], 27/08/2001 00:56 GMT
maps created in q3r convert nice to q1

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Speedy
#1592 Posted by Lunaran [172.156.158.147], 27/08/2001 01:56 GMT
It's been asked in this thread before, so root around a bit for links to SleepwalkR's map convertor and the necessary steps. Editing Q1 in qer147 is quite nice. doing it in q3r or GTKr would be even better since the map format, afaik, is identical to q1 (no surface properties - and only as long as you don't put in any curves Smile) except for the texture scale thing.


However ... I do believe that if you compile a map with a 256x256 texture fit to a 128x128 wall, and then swap the texture for a 128x128 one, it will still fill the same amount of space (it isn't pixel-specific, just dimensional) so you may actually be able to get away with using scaled-up placeholder textures and then just swapping the wads after you compile. not sure, this would take a bit of experimentation which I will leave up to you. :)

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This Is Really Strange...
#1593 Posted by necros [172.149.102.84], 27/08/2001 02:12 GMT
For some reason, WQbsp tells me there is a leak in my level, with the common leak error, then right after, it makes a .prt file. However, if i noclip outside the level, then turn off noclip, i'll start to fall as if the level hadn't been filled... I used the coordinates that WQbsp gave me from the error, and the entity turned out to be a light which is inside my level... Any clue as to what this is?
Quake

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Q3r And Q1
#1594 Posted by Nightbringer [203.97.2.243], 27/08/2001 03:34 GMT
Q3R's map format differs very slightly to what's expected by qbsp - three extra values per brush side. Only one is actually used (and that only for one thing - marking brushes as detail). The id standard qbsp (at least) won't parse maps like this.

Q3R 202 seems quite happy about loading q1 maps; gtkr1.1-ta-beta doesn't. (may be different for 1.1 release or 1.2)

There's a couple of wrinkles over and above the format issue:
- Textures have to live in \textures, since q1's textures don't have paths attached (unless you add them yourself)
- Textures that are animated a la water must begin with '*', which is an illegal character in filenames. You'll have to use a differently named texture in the editor, and change it in the .map file before compilation.

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Necros Error
#1595 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.7], 27/08/2001 06:54 GMT
I came across that problem once...

When I deleted the entity, and recompiled the map, the leak was still there, only pointing to a different entity. One by one I removed every entity in my map, until all that was left was info_player_start... then THAT became the leak.

Very frustrating, to say the least.

As it turned out, it WAS a brush, but not brush one sealing out the void. It was a silly little brush INSIDE the level that was causing the problem. I deleted it, and all was fine.

Personal note: Level Lord was once asked about this "leak" problem. He shook his head, and walked away in disgust. Evil

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Speedy
#1596 Posted by killazontherun [203.164.2.199], 27/08/2001 07:03 GMT
I couldn't find a way to convert the default texture size from 0.5 to 1.0 so what I did was open the .map in notepad and do a replace on all 0.5000000 to 1.0000000 and it worked fine.

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Nightbringer
#1597 Posted by Lunaran [64.12.102.169], 27/08/2001 19:38 GMT
Right. sleepy's map converter fixes all those things. :)

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Thx, But
#1598 Posted by necros [172.147.164.252], 27/08/2001 20:56 GMT , Refers to Post #1595
What was so peculiar about the brush? Is there something specific I should look for, or just delete all my brushes? =P

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Grahf Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1599 Posted by Grahf [192.154.65.1], 27/08/2001 21:32 GMT
I have a different QBSP problem. I don't get a leak message, but QBSP does a FillOutside and doesn't make a prt. I get this one WAY too often...

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Grahf,
#1600 Posted by necros [172.140.66.251], 27/08/2001 22:02 GMT
if it fills the outside, you can usually force a prt file, by using a bsp2prt, which will result in a normal .bsp for vis to work on. DO NOT bsp2prt a map which has not been filled out side, as this will take FOREVER to vis, (since it's got to calculate everything outside the map too, since it wasn't filled).

Sorry, but i don't have a link on my atm...

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Necros:
#1601 Posted by Seth [62.7.12.2], 28/08/2001 01:30 GMT
i also had this prob several times... if ur using wc then u may find that in clippin it made some fuked up brush which has no height/width/depth... im not sure if i recallin the right prob tho... either way u somehow need to find this brush and delete it....

i might b talkin crap tho... just advancin iains post

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Methinks I Know
#1602 Posted by Jimbo [216.12.56.236], 28/08/2001 01:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1598
I had that problem a while back,
it is caused by a brush thats either inside
out or shares a face with another brush but doesn't touch the other brush (cause I moved it).
I hope that helps,
-Jimbo

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The Way To Find A
#1603 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.144], 28/08/2001 03:17 GMT
"broken" brush I use : just devide a map by half, seal all the holes and compile each part separately. Do the same with the half that caused compiler error, and so on. This way I found a bad brush in a large (2500+ brushes) map in no time.
Hope it helps..

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Iain
#1604 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.191], 28/08/2001 03:30 GMT
btw, leak just points to an ent that appears to be close to it, so its usless to delete it (ofcoures if its not the one that acidentely got outside the map structure)

[Reply]


Q3a ->q1
#1605 Posted by Speedy [213.158.1.191], 28/08/2001 03:33 GMT
hmm. seems like we should start begging SleepwalkR to make a new version of his converter that would support q3 maps ! (so it`d change all texture scale)

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Q3a->q1
#1606 Posted by Nightbringer [203.97.2.243], 28/08/2001 06:04 GMT , Refers to Post #1605
That, or suggest user-defined default texture scale as a feature to the GTKRadiant folks.

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Ha. Ha Ha. Ha.
#1607 Posted by Lunaran [172.135.76.190], 28/08/2001 16:32 GMT
I can tell you right now suggesting features for GTKR is a waste of breath. They'll tell you to stop whining and go submit a bug report, and when you go and do that they tell you there's no time to code it.

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Lun
#1608 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 28/08/2001 18:32 GMT , Refers to Post #1607
Here's a list of GtkR bugs that have been marked as Resolved+Fixed. 64 at time of posting.

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WQBSP Problems...
#1609 Posted by Skynet [195.138.42.163], 28/08/2001 19:30 GMT , Refers to Post #1595
It seems WQBSP has some weird errors. Yesterday, I used a trigger_teleport and an outside-triggered trigger_once to teleport in a Nehahra Quakeguy. After this, I started to fall out of the level on a certain plain wall. No leak, no VIS problem. Changing or altering the wall didn't help. I changed back the entity brushes to world brushes, and it was o.k. again. Then I deleted the whole room of this Qguy and put it and the teleporter somewhere else, replaced the trigger_once by a trigger_relay point entity, and it was also o.k. At least, I didn't find a similar error.

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GTK
#1610 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.136], 29/08/2001 01:09 GMT
Seems like GTK guys are happy with the editor, and they dont change much in it, just improve and polish.. I`m sure some ppl requested support for q1 and it was said they might make a plugin or smth like that. But I dont think it`ll happen ;(

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** Rimshot **
#1611 Posted by Grahf [168.215.114.115], 29/08/2001 04:21 GMT
If you code it, it will come....

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Necros Error Cont...
#1612 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.17], 29/08/2001 04:46 GMT
Yes, I found the "problem" brush by deleting every brush in the map. But that is the good thing about using WC vis-groups. Each room I build is given it's own vis-group.

I backed-up my map, then:
- used vis-group to view ONLY one area (then deleted that room).
- sealed the remaining map from the "possible" problem area, and ran the level.
- when the problem was found, I pulled out the backup map and deleted THAT brush.

Note: Even if you delete half your map at one go, that is still half as many brushes you must search through.

Crude, but it works.

Speedy... i DID know that... at ONE time. My memory is not what it used... what was i saying??

[Reply]


Bork
#1613 Posted by Iain [208.181.205.17], 29/08/2001 04:54 GMT
Speedy already answered this question...

I am losing my.... thinking machine?

Never mix beer, scotch and vodka

[Reply]


Speedy
#1614 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 29/08/2001 09:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1610
Well, that's guy singular since TTimo seems to be the only major coder atm. There's actually quite a bit going on behind the scenes - new plugin interfaces, map format, etc. - that will make a q1 plugin much easier to make. Strangely, given the number of q1 engine coders about, noone actually wants to make the thing.

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Skynet...
#1615 Posted by QuakeTree [63.42.69.246], 29/08/2001 16:08 GMT
That happens to me sometimes also.

I have found that selecting the "Entire" level and copying it, then pasting the whole thing into a new, blank .map seems to fix it.

Irritating aint it.

I think it has something to do wit an illegal face on a brush but I am not sure.

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Beta Testing & Hosting
#1616 Posted by Schmung [212.137.251.40], 29/08/2001 20:07 GMT
I have a DM Map that needs beta testing, so if anyone's interested please e-mail me. Also I was wondering if anyone knows of an FTP where I can upload it.. since cdrom has stopped accepting stuff.. and Fileplanet requires an existing mirror.

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Ah.....??
#1617 Posted by Seth [62.7.37.32], 29/08/2001 22:02 GMT
necros: it might be worth reloading the map from .map file instead of the .rmf... you may find that gets rid of the prob... tho once again i could b totally wrong Smile

schmung: if u want u can mail it to me @ seth@barrysworld.com and ill have a butchers

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Maj
#1618 Posted by Lunaran [205.188.199.182], 30/08/2001 22:28 GMT
The list's actually up to 75 now (for the record), and you will notice that only four of them are marked "enhancement."

Yay!

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Lun
#1619 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 31/08/2001 09:37 GMT , Refers to Post #1618
That's cos GtkR is perfect.

Yay!

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Will Having
#1620 Posted by necros [172.132.121.49], 03/09/2001 21:37 GMT
a couple of sealed off areas which don't leak, but don't have any entities inside them mess up QBSP's filling process if there is a regular level?

ie: You have a regular level, but also some small little leftovers which are sealed but don't have entities inside to denote those areas as 'inside' vs 'outside'.

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Necros
#1621 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.154], 04/09/2001 01:15 GMT
they should be fine, and not chopped off

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Ok
#1622 Posted by NotoriousRay [199.75.227.167], 06/09/2001 14:17 GMT
so i recently reinstalled q2 (what!!?) and had a go about making a dm map (kudos to lun for his hangar textures he released= j00 rule)
so, i'm guessing there are better compile utiilities than what originally comes with worldcraft. if so, what are they and where might i find them?

also, is it necessary to keep my .map files in my baseq2\maps directory? i tried to compile my map and qbsp3 said 'no quake2 in c:\worldcraft\q2test.map' which lead me to think i should haul everything over to baseq2\maps. eh?

tia

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Yes
#1623 Posted by Vigil [193.229.255.17], 06/09/2001 14:24 GMT , Refers to Post #1622
There are new compiling utilites by Geoffrey DeWan. The URL is, ummm, lessee here... This. That'll get you a new BSP and a new VIS. The lighting utility of choice is Argh!'s ARGHRAD, right here.

And, with the new utilities, you don't have to store the .map files there. But you need to add some command line stuff (most likely, can't remember exactly what) to get them to work.

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I've Always Wondered About This,
#1624 Posted by necros [172.136.154.149], 06/09/2001 22:00 GMT
but never bothered asking. Why are convex brushes not allowed?

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#1625 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 06/09/2001 22:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1624
becuase they aren't! duh... Tongue


mostly, i believe, becuase convex brushes are harder to define and harder to interprate, thus slowing down the qbsp process. not allowing convex brushes just makes it simpler to read and compile.

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Q2 Compile Command Lines
#1626 Posted by Shadowdane [64.20.65.60], 07/09/2001 02:11 GMT
well i use Geoffrey Dewan's BSP/VIS and Arghrad.. here is the .bat file i use for a full compile, fell free to edit it.

just so you know.. the -level command doesn't work in Q2 VIS. running it as shown does full VIS, if you add -fast that will do quick VIS.

@echo off
qbsp3 -gamedir c:\quake2\baseq2 c:\quake2\baseq2\maps\nexus4.map

qvis3 c:\quake2\baseq2\maps\nexus4.bsp

arghrad -gamedir c:\quake2\baseq2 -chop 32 -bounce 20 -extra c:\quake2\baseq2\maps\nexus4.bsp

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Convex Brushes
#1627 Posted by metlslime [24.176.79.254], 07/09/2001 04:01 GMT
the way brushes are defined in the map file makes it impossible to have a concave brush.
Sure, this could be different, but it would make the editor, compiler and map format more complex, and needlessly so. After all, you can make any concave shape out of convex brushes.

Looking forward, things like mapobjects and patches are going to take the place of brushes for doing detailed 'modelling' in levels. That way you can use brushes for structure and triangle meshes for anything really complex/detailed/organic.

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Models For Details...
#1628 Posted by necros|schoolxors [207.236.63.4], 07/09/2001 16:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1627
Um... I don`t really like that idea. It was done in SystemShock 2, and a lot of the levels got repetive because of it. (Same wall computer panels everywhere), plus if you break them all, then the hallway is really plain... =p

oh well.

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I Believe
#1629 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.175], 07/09/2001 21:46 GMT
concave, not convex

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No Activity On GtkRadiant?
#1630 Posted by TTimo [217.128.77.157], 07/09/2001 22:47 GMT
It's quite funny to hear people say that there's no activity around GtkRadiant and that I'm basically the only coder.

Look there:

http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/archives/gtkradiant/2001-September/date.html

that's the mailing list archive .. 116 messages (mostly bug fixing logs) since the beginning of this month

Look there:

dev log

that's the developer log. I am clearly NOT the only one involved in the editor developpement.

Just thought I would clarify a few things :-)

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************ ERROR ************
#1631 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.88.87], 07/09/2001 23:42 GMT

---- MergeAll ----
8071 mergefaces
writing c:\quake\id1\maps\other\tbb.prt
************ ERROR ************
CanonicalVector: degenerate


yes, kids, compiling is fun fun fun!!!

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I Think I Remember Seeing The Solution
#1632 Posted by necros [172.186.111.29], 08/09/2001 02:16 GMT
on quakelab...

something about a busted brush (try doing the cnp into a new file trick).

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Apend:
#1633 Posted by necros [172.186.111.29], 08/09/2001 02:21 GMT
"Error:CanonicalVector: degenerate

The great mysterious error. Several people have had the misfortune of seeing this error and yet none of gotten a clear answer of what the problem might be. I've talked with a number of professional editors and they are all stumped. It's been said that John Carmack, when asked about this error, would get a scowl on his face, mutter something under his breath, and stalk off. "

CNPed from: The Forge

Looks like qbsp has finally gotten to ya, Xenon. =\ My only suggestion would be to split up the map until you find the area which is causing this (and then, of course, delete it..) ugh, such fun.

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LOL
#1634 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.175], 08/09/2001 03:27 GMT
I thought CanonicalVector: degenerate is a sort of a joke. Never had it

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Models For Details
#1635 Posted by metlslime [24.176.79.254], 08/09/2001 07:40 GMT , Refers to Post #1628
(necros: this isn't really directed at you alone, so don't take it personally. I hear a lot of similar complaints.)

Um... I don`t really like that idea. It was done in SystemShock 2, and a lot of the levels got repetive because of it. (Same wall computer panels everywhere), plus if you break them all, then the hallway is really plain... =p

No no no, you misunderstand, just like everybody misunderstands me. What did walt whitman have to say about that? No matter.

Anyway, i'm not saying you just pepper some sort of prefab crap all over your level, i'm saying YOU, the level designer, create the same details you would have created with brushes, with triangle meshes instead. You don't C'n'P the same damned model everywhere, unless you are lame. And people are just as capable of being lame with brushes.

I'm imagining people making rocky cliffs out of meshes, strange altars, spaceships in a hangar, piles of scrap metal, whatever. If you want to be a lame-ass mapper and fucking make bad maps, you can. WHY DON"T PEOPLE REALISE THAT JUST BECUAuse a tool or feature allows bad mappers to make bad maps, it must be a bad tool? I WANT features and tools and i will make good maps with them, Fuck the rest of you. You can make all the shit maps you want. I'm not going to help protect you from your lack of imagination.

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CanonicalVector: Degenerate
#1636 Posted by metlslime [24.176.79.254], 08/09/2001 07:41 GMT
it's been a while since i looked, but i seem to recall that in the code, after this error, carmack left a comment that said something like "// this should never happen"

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Well, It Does
#1637 Posted by Fat Controller [203.98.21.44], 08/09/2001 07:58 GMT
I had this lovely error crop up when Kona was on the OUM crew and I was inserting some door notches into the ends of a twisty corridor. On undoing this work, things went back to normal.

So I'd say there's a very complex lump of brushwork somewhere that QBSP can't make head or tail of, and Xenon'll either have to rethink or simplify whatever brought it on.

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MetlSlime:
#1638 Posted by necros [172.130.37.240], 08/09/2001 16:23 GMT
I'm imagining people making rocky cliffs out of meshes, strange altars, spaceships in a hangar, piles of scrap metal, whatever.

That's already been done.

If you want to be a lame-ass mapper and fucking make bad maps, you can. WHY DON"T PEOPLE REALISE THAT JUST BECUAuse a tool or feature allows bad mappers to make bad maps, it must be a bad tool? I WANT features and tools and i will make good maps with them, Fuck the rest of you. You can make all the shit maps you want. I'm not going to help protect you from your lack of imagination.

Dude, calm down. I never said it was a bad idea, just that it can get repetitive (Ex: SS2) And if yer gonna do this kind of stuff the way your envisionning it, that means mappers also have to be modellers to be able to churn out the amount of mesh objects yer talking about. Not only that, but it can possibly take longer (more detail, and having to make new meshes for every little thing). Granted, making terrain would probably be infinitly easier with triangles, rather than brushes, which is a definate plus.

No no no, you misunderstand, just like everybody misunderstands me.

Well, maybe you should rethink your way of explaning things, then.

[Reply]


Interesting
#1639 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.136.58], 08/09/2001 16:29 GMT
OK, Carmack cant solve my error... thats enlightening. Smile

Interesting you should say that, Fatty... In fact the map compiled fine hundreds of times, and it was just this one time where I tweaked a few bits of simple brushwork and added some entities when I got the error. I could understand it if I had added any really complex detailed architechture but it was only a few torchholders and simple rock brushes... I'll look into it...

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Grahf Is Still Working On A Title
#1640 Posted by Grahf [168.215.114.115], 08/09/2001 20:33 GMT
The nearest I can tell, from what the quakelab says and my own experience, is that the CanonicalVector error appears as a result of large scale clipping operations, either in the editor or csg-ing by qbsp. Tough to say for sure though.

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\'modelling\'
#1641 Posted by Gilt [64.20.60.70], 08/09/2001 20:55 GMT
You can make all the shit maps you want. I'm not going to help protect you from your lack of imagination.

Hehehe...

not to mention the facy that there are a lot of prejudices and dogma about what should or shouldn't be part of maps simply because some people in the past didn't have the skill to implement those things, and now most people don't have the balls/imagination/skill to prove otherwise.

I understand what you're getting at with the 'modelling'. I have the same feelings because of the clumsiness of brushes. It's more about control then just having a whole bunch of prefabs. It's more like being able to make one of Gehry's buildings, not a whole bunch of compter panels.

That's why I liked the ideas behind Max Ed. I still haven't had the chance to try it though so I'm not sure if its any good though.

I'm imagining people making rocky cliffs out of meshes, strange altars, spaceships in a hangar, piles of scrap metal, whatever.

If you're being misunderstood, it's because your giving out examples of props. It's more then that, it's about making things that are actually a part of the map.

(Of course all this assumes that I'm actually thinking of the same thing as you)

I'm really looking forward to having that kind of power and control in level design,(I've been playing around with q3, and hopefully when I'm done this map that I've got everybody'll will be able to understand my vision of what mapping should be.)

And if yer gonna do this kind of stuff the way your envisionning it, that means mappers also have to be modellers to be able to churn out the amount of mesh objects yer talking about. Not only that, but it can possibly take longer (more detail, and having to make new meshes for every little thing)

You're not making the props, the whole point of this is that you'll be able to make things that are directly relevant to the level much easier, faster and better then you ever could with brushes. Check out my post over in the Max ed thread.

And I don't see what's wrong with having to aquire the some of the skill of modellers. It's so similar anyway.

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#1642 Posted by Gilt [64.20.60.70], 08/09/2001 20:56 GMT
oops, forgot to close the <bold> after "a part of the map."

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@#$@$^modelling^^@$
#1643 Posted by metlslime [24.176.79.254], 09/09/2001 02:05 GMT
I'll concede that i suck at explaining myself properly, at least to the people who misunderstand me.

Yes, maybe mappers have to be modellers. It's really just 3D design; they don't have to be as different as they seem. Perhaps gilt is right in that my problem is that i keep giving props as examples. Well, first of all, as a mapper i want to be able to make my own props anyway. In fact, i want to blur the line between 'props' and 'architecture.' But secondly, there are many things that people make right now as level designers that can be clumsy with brushes: Window frames, terrain, torch holders, doors, the damaged part of ruined buildings, weird ornamental stuff that causes "cannonicaVector: Degenerate" errors... and many things more that we simply do not make becuase it is impractical, like trees.

I guess, if you consider a mapper simply someone who arranges the ingredients but doesn't actually produce anything from scratch, like textures or 'props' or monsters, then any dissagreement stems from the fact that I want control of everything:

I want to make trees so that i can have a wooded area in my level -- you can't do that with brushes. I want to make light fixtures that don't require me to realign textures on it every time i rotate it a little. I want to make terrain where each triangle doesn't have 3 extra vertices to worry about, and where each 'vertex' in the 'mesh' is actually 6 vertices belonging to six different brushes that happen to meet there, and they aren't even vertices at all becuase they are merely implied by the meeting of three or more infinite planes in the .map file, rather than explicitly defined and under my direct control.

However, i think there are some things that will always be easier to build out of brushes. I hope brushes are here to stay, but only as one of several alternatives.

Gilt, you do understand me.

Necros:

i am calm; i'm just being passionate.

The caveat "this feature could be used to make a bad map" may be true, but i don't think it is relevant.

As far as the effort required to "churn out mesh objects," this should be equal to or less than the effort required to make the same objects out of brushes -- otherwise you should still make them out of brushes.

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Q3 Perspective
#1644 Posted by Nightbringer [203.97.2.243], 09/09/2001 07:03 GMT
All geometry in a Q3 map is saved to the bsp as raw triangles I think; misc_model md3s included. An extension would be to let mappers design arbitrary tri meshes in-place, like patch meshes. It'd definitely require editor and compiler (perhaps bsp only) support, but it might very well be possible*.

Things are kinda moving in this direction already; the 'new' brush primitive texture mode lets you texture brushes a great deal more precisely.

More generally, letting the mapper choose to decouple visibility and collision data from rendered polygons is a good thing imo. Increases flexibility no end; as long as it Does the Right Thing by default if people ignore these features.

*: I'm not really conversant with the q3tools codebase. so read "may or may not be possible; may or may not be pleasant."

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Speedy Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1645 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.180], 10/09/2001 02:33 GMT
models have only bounding boxes around them so you cant really make terrain from them.

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Speedy Is Still Working On A Title
#1646 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.180], 10/09/2001 02:38 GMT
and if you really want to you can start to use models in q1 maps. You`d need void ents (or some other qc code). .. and models ofcourse ;)

BTW, on one hand making pollygon models is far more easy than building stuff from convex brushes, but skinmapping is harder than traditional texturing IMO

[Reply]


Q3 Question
#1647 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.180], 10/09/2001 03:28 GMT
How can you make rectangular/square curves (like those in Q3A-Addction by Peej), link to the tutorial would be nice

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Square Cylinders
#1648 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 10/09/2001 09:01 GMT , Refers to Post #1647
Use a square cylinder, which you get from the curves menu of course, with two extra rows added, redispersed, bent to shape, then snapped to grid. Manipulate the patch control points to adjust the curve shape afterwards if desired. Can't explain the nitty gritty without diagrams, so I'll point to Claudec's which has links to tutorials for everything imaginable for Q3.

BTW, does anyone have a reliable formula for getting the right length cylinders for 90deg/180deg bends? I tend to use trial and error, which wastes a lot of time.

[Reply]


Don't Bend
#1649 Posted by Krash [203.19.8.224], 10/09/2001 10:31 GMT , Refers to Post #1648
Vertex edit instead. Much simpler.
Difficult to explain how though, and I can't post a pic right now.

- Krash

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#1650 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 10/09/2001 11:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1648
rectangle cylinders suck becuase the lighting looks ass on them. make the curved retangle bits out of 4 simple patch meshes that are vertex maniped into position.

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Hmm, No Title
#1651 Posted by Gilt [154.11.100.196], 10/09/2001 17:32 GMT
models have only bounding boxes around them so you cant really make terrain from them...and if you really want to you can start to use models in q1 maps.

You don't get it.

Modelling is an unfortunate term for this. I don't want to actually use real models. Everything that I want to do is possible with brushes right now, it's just it'd be a whole hell of a lot easier if I could use a tri mesh type tool. Again I'll refer to my post from the max ed thread about the prisms.

let mappers design arbitrary tri meshes in-place, like patch meshes.

that's more like it :-)

Things are kinda moving in this direction already;

yup, this was just kind of a fantasizing about the future type of conversation :-)
That's why we said things like "looking to the future"...

BTW, on one hand making pollygon models is far more easy than building stuff from convex brushes, but skinmapping is harder than traditional texturing IMO

yeah I guess, but that's the way it's going to be. If mappers have to learn how to be modellers then texture artists will have to learn how be skinners. It's all just a
blurring of the lines like metlslime said.

This type of stuff is already being done in movies. So when games/comps get more power, we'll get more power to do what we want.

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Weird Error
#1652 Posted by alan [195.92.168.166], 13/09/2001 15:16 GMT
I get these errors whe nI goto compile a map, whats going on?


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\Q1Tools\Qbsp.exe
** Parameters: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\Maps\ROCKY

Transparent water QBSP with Hipnotic extensions
MultiWAD version 1.65
by Ken Alverson based on original code by John Carmack

************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Program.map: No such file or directory

** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\Q1Tools\Light.exe
** Parameters: C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\Maps\ROCKY

----- LightFaces ----
************ ERROR ************
usage: light [-threads num] [-extra] bspfile

** Executing...
** Command: C:\Program Files\Worldcraft\Q1Tools\Vis.exe
** Parameters: -fast C:\Program Files\Quake\id1\Maps\ROCKY

---- rvis+ ----
fastvis = true
************ ERROR ************
usage: vis [-threads #] [-level 0-4] [-fast] [-v] [-credits] [-nocount] bspfile

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.map
#1653 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 13/09/2001 15:35 GMT
perhaps make it rocky.map rather than just rocky?

Its either that or qbsp doesn't like the space in "Program Files"..its trying to open something called Program.map

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Alan
#1654 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.88.168], 13/09/2001 17:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1652
Save the map into a different directory, like, in your quake folder for instance, and make sure there are no spaces in the file path.

Qbsp sees the space in "program files", assumes it is the end of the path, and thus assumes 'program' is the name of the map youre compiling. And there's no need to use rocky.map like glassman said, it searches for the .map file itself.

Hope that makes sense...

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#1655 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 13/09/2001 21:54 GMT
here's what will make sense. DOS does not support spaces in folder and file names. The compile utilities, based it DOS, cannot read where you mean for a space to be becuase it's the name of the folder, or if it's a space before a command.

Best way to do compiles and such (at least what I do for compiling): Put all your .wads, .maps, and compile utils into 1 seperate folder. I call mine "Qtex". All compiles go thru there. Makes everything simple, everything is in 1 spot.

If you get real industrial, you'll set up a .bat file which will bsp your map, then light with the settings you want, and vis if you specify it to. and then it starts quake with your map, all ready to go.

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metlslime Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1656 Posted by metlslime [24.176.79.254], 14/09/2001 08:16 GMT
Some versions of windows can't handle those spaces in batch file paths. change "C:\Program Files\etc" to "C:\Progra~1\etc"

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OK...
#1657 Posted by palldjon@uni [131.172.4.45], 18/09/2001 06:10 GMT
so I'm working on a Q1 project and using WC1.6. Now I'm implementing 4 player co-op functionality...no probs. However, I don't want the player spawn points to appear if someone is playing SP. Moreover, I'd like to double up on weapons but not have the duplicates appear in SP.

Making the co-op spawn points appropriate entities (e.g. func_wall) gives me some flag choices:
"Not in easy"
"Not in normal"
"Not in hard"
"Not in deathmatch"

and has the added bonus of not cutting up the BSP Cool.

So what's the story with co-op? Do I tick them all and insist the co-op players choose "nightmare". Does WC even recognize "nightmare" as an option? Further, a 1337 SP player might play nightmare at some stage and have to put up with too many weapons and unrequired spawn points.

Is it as simple as ticking all but "Not in deathmatch." That is, is co-op run (initially) just like any other multi-player mode but some universal code kicks in when the co-op option is chosen, to stop the items re-spawning but still allowing skill level selection???

Uuuuuuum...help!

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Re: OK...
#1658 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 18/09/2001 07:32 GMT , Refers to Post #1657
There is no spawnflag for "co-op only".
Nightmare is the same as hard - monsters just fight harder.

[Reply]


But...
#1659 Posted by czg [158.38.54.51], 18/09/2001 08:08 GMT
isn't there a func_coop or something? There is at least a func_deathmatch. I was going to look it up in a fgd file, but PQ seemed to be having a headache...

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Func_deathmatch?
#1660 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 18/09/2001 14:59 GMT
I've never heard of func_coop or func_deathmatch. Afaik there is only the spawnflag to exclude an entity from deathmatch.

Also, you don't need extra weapons in coop as the weapons dont disappear when they're picked up so everyone can grab them (once only though). A bit like dm with weapstay on.

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Also..
#1661 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 18/09/2001 15:19 GMT
when playing coop you still select a skill setting so if you mark an entity 'not in easy' it will not appear in easy on SP or coop.

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Palldjon
#1662 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.88.136], 18/09/2001 17:19 GMT
I don't want the player spawn points to appear if someone is playing SP. Moreover, I'd like to double up on weapons but not have the duplicates appear in SP

Coop is really not that complex... It really is just SP with more players, except with the item pickup feature glassman mentioned. Skillsettings are set up the same too; say a level on skill 1 has 50 monsters in SP, it will have 50 monsters on skill 1 in coop too; there's no way you can change it through flags.

And for spawn points, well, its tough. You'll just have to spawn them on the plain floor or put up with extra teleport pads in SP... not that its a big deal or anything.

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Silly Idea
#1663 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.236.93], 18/09/2001 18:36 GMT
If you really want something special for the coop starts you could put them in extra little side rooms with doors that can only be opened from the inside. Playing under normal SP you would never know they were there.

I dont think regular coop players expect these kind of luxuries though ;)

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Hum...
#1664 Posted by necros [172.140.32.68], 18/09/2001 21:07 GMT
Palldjon, if you know a little bit of QC, you can code an extra key into all items, (say, a 'necros' key), and when you set that key to, say '1', then you can make those items only spawn in coop (you could probably do this with spawnflags, but this is much easier, and I've done it before, and it works: i made a 'nogib' key, to make monsters which had it set to 1 never gib).

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Now, For My Problems...
#1665 Posted by necros [172.140.32.68], 18/09/2001 21:10 GMT
Map compiles Properly, no errors. I run quake (GL, Software, TQ, Nehahra) and they all say:

CALL1 468(precache_model)precache_model()
world.qc : worldspawn
(NO_FUNCTION)
PF_precache_model : overflow
Host_error : Program Error


At first, I thought this was because I had to many B-Models... but I don't (I have 230, and the max, afaik is 255).

So what could be the problem? (Oh, there are absolutly NO torches in there).

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Models
#1666 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.236.93], 18/09/2001 22:01 GMT
Did you get the number of b-models from using mcache? If not, check that.

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Ta Much...
#1667 Posted by palldjon [203.32.39.254], 19/09/2001 00:50 GMT
for the heads up on weaponstay for co-op Glassman. Ta also XeN and others for clearing up the lack of co-op flags.

As far as the spawn points are concerned, I do want co-op players to have such luxuries. So I'm in the shower this morning and I suddenly thought "der", just make the co-op pads func_wall, give 'em a common name then place a trigger_once around the player_start (with the same name as the co-op ports) that killtargets the port points. Vice-versa for the co-op points. Hhhhhhmm might work, other wise I'll use the one way door and seperate room idea.

Thanx all.

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Or It Might Not..
#1668 Posted by GlassMan [213.123.236.93], 19/09/2001 01:35 GMT
I'm *fairly* sure that the regular info_player_start is also used as one of the coop starts..the player running the coop server spawns there. You might want to try it just to check.

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OakelyDoakely...
#1669 Posted by palldjon [203.32.39.254], 19/09/2001 02:17 GMT
seperate room, with a one way door it is.

Not that I mind, maybe I'll give the co-op players a little pool to splash in and maybe a kiosk selling really good coffee, and...

Smile they deserve it.

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Max Number Of Monsters...
#1670 Posted by necros [172.139.0.245], 19/09/2001 22:51 GMT
Is there a max number of monsters that you can have in a given level? Would that cause a precache error? Right now, i've got 200 exactly.

Or can it be a combination of the two (lots of monsters, and lots of BModels)

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Coffe?... Always!
#1671 Posted by Jaj [62.83.167.177], 19/09/2001 22:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1669
You're right, they deserve it.. while saving the world, some coffe is something unpayable... Beer (hey! coffe cup icon needed!)

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Max Numbers
#1672 Posted by Jaj [62.83.167.177], 19/09/2001 22:55 GMT , Refers to Post #1670
Yes,there is a max number for .mdl models, i think, but i don't know which number exactly...

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GTKR
#1673 Posted by Nightbringer [203.97.2.243], 20/09/2001 00:22 GMT
- Added variable default texture scale in preferences
Whoever wanted q1-suitable default texture scale in radiant just got their wish:
GTKR 1.1.1 release candidate

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Max Monster
#1674 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.131], 20/09/2001 02:36 GMT
dont think there is a limit (may be there is for max ents in general) I `v compiled/played test map with over 400 baddies

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Max Monster
#1675 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.131], 20/09/2001 02:44 GMT
dont think there is a limit (may be there is for max ents in general) I `v compiled/played test map with over 400 baddies

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Necros Et Al.
#1676 Posted by BlackLeatherJacket [203.32.39.254], 20/09/2001 06:44 GMT
The Glassman had this to say a while back:

The maximum number of entities including lights is 2048 so thats not your problem.

The precache error refers to the number of different models that are precached so a shambler say only counts once even if you have 20 of them. There is a command that will list the precached models in the console but I forget what it is. Someone should know.

I dont know why you want to exclude doors. Each separate func_* brush entity & trigger brushes will count as a model in that tally.


Found it with search string "entity"

~blj

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Necros:
#1677 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.79.86], 20/09/2001 18:12 GMT
It all depends. Say, the marvellous speedmap "sm20_amrik" had 186 monsters all in one room, and crashed every engine out there (except panquake), but on the other hand, czg07a had 240 monsters on hard and ran absolutely fine on all enigines afaik. , due to its spaced out and extensive layout.
But 200 sounds rather excessive. Either its a vary large level or has quad-massacre antics, the latter of which should be avoided like the plague. Basically if you get the packet overflow in any of the 3 main Qengines then thats too many in a room. But if you space them out enough then who knows?

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256 Perhaps?
#1678 Posted by Jaj [62.83.165.18], 20/09/2001 22:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1670
I've just seen this just now

Here

Anyway im not sure,i need to read this with a coffe Beer

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No, No, Let Me Clarify/repeat Myself =p
#1679 Posted by necros [172.141.255.44], 21/09/2001 00:48 GMT
This map IS large. with 200 monsters evenly spaced out (although, i was tempted for the quad massacres Wink)

However, there is also 200 BModels (doors, func_walls, plats..etc) (Most of these are trigger_teleport, btw).

There are absolutly no wall torches, and only a few flames. (static models, btw).


the actual error:

CALL1 468(precache_model)precache_model()
world.qc : worldspawn
(NO_FUNCTION)
PF_precache_model : overflow
Host_error : Program Error


But, then, just to see i deleted all the monsters, and brought the bmodel count down to 150, and the map worked... so why the hell is the max 255 bmodels, when i can barely get it to work with 150 bmodels??

[Reply]


Hmm
#1680 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 21/09/2001 13:59 GMT , Refers to Post #1679
The limit is not 256 'bmodels'. Its 256 models of all kinds. That includes sprites, each type of monster, monsters heads, the bsp of the map itself, weapon models, the rocket model, the nail, gibs the lot. I doubt you would have enough space left for all these models if you have 200 'bmodels'.

I would guess you've gone over the top with the triggers for the teleporting in. Theres only so much of that you can do. With your coding skills maybe you could write some kind of monster spawn function to use instead of the triggers. I think custents has something like that.

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SF64
#1681 Posted by czg [158.38.54.28], 21/09/2001 15:31 GMT
Rip out the spawnflag 64 code from Zerstörer. I managed to do it once and it wasn't really so complicated, just a few lines of cut 'n paste, really simple.
That might just be the most ingenious bit of code ever created...

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256 Of Every Models???
#1682 Posted by necros [172.145.206.107], 21/09/2001 22:23 GMT
Holy... no wonder it was fucking up. And I keep running out of edicts on one monster teleport (it teleports 8 monsters at the same time). Could this be related to it as well?

And thx for the idea, czg... i'll take a peek at that code.

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Ok, Kids, Who Wants To Beta Test?
#1683 Posted by necros [172.130.34.102], 22/09/2001 02:06 GMT
Finally finished asunder1 (CZG, monster spawning is a life saver!). Now, I need some testers. It's in early beta stage, so the more the merrier. One thing, tho... You must use panquake to play... I'm sorry, i really am, but there just isn't enough edicts in normal glquake... =\ (I'll even send ya panquake if you don't have it).
And you'll also need an additional progs.dat, with some models, and sounds (total is about 2.6 MB, maps 'n' all)
if you want to, just mail me.

btw, Aard, is it ok if i include your panquake.exe with the pack? it'd make it a lot easier for people who aren't familliar with this kind of stuff. i'll include yer text file, and everything. (don't worry).

Quake

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I Wanna Test
#1684 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.145], 22/09/2001 04:02 GMT
I want to test the map

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Button Problems
#1685 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 22/09/2001 10:21 GMT
I have a problem concerning buttons.

I have two buttons, one that triggers 'exitplat' and door that acts as a platform and another button that triggers 'exitdoor' a door.

The problem is, that pressing the button to trigger exitplat doesnt do anything at all, but when i press the exitdoor button, it triggers both exitdoor and exit plat.

I have no idea what is wrong, but was wondering if anyone else does?

btw, necros, can i please beta test? (email me if its a yes)

[Reply]


A Question From A Newbie...
#1686 Posted by catflap [213.48.229.16], 22/09/2001 12:20 GMT
I'm trying to create a lift in Q3Radiant which stays in it's elevated position for longer than the default 1 second. I've used a func_plat for the lift, and so far, I've tried func_timer to re-trigger it, but that doesn't work too well (the lift cycles, but doesn't stay put).

Can this sort of lift be created?

Many thanks in advance,
Catflap

[Reply]


.
#1687 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.106], 22/09/2001 16:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1686
i think there may be a 'wait' key that you can set on the func_platform

if not, i'd try using a func_door that will 'open' vertically. that you can set with a 'wait' for sure.

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Asriel:
#1688 Posted by necros [172.173.168.212], 22/09/2001 19:30 GMT
The problem is that the doors are getting linked together, and the 'exitdoor' one is being defined as the master door, whereas the other is the child door... (I forget the exact terms =p) In anycase, the way to fix that is either to make both doors not touch, or check the "Doors don't link" flag on both doors.

Assuming it's for Quake.

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Cheers Necros
#1689 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 22/09/2001 21:16 GMT
Thanks for that necros, I can see where I have gone wrong exactly.

Thanks muchly

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A 69, Oh!
#1690 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.254], 27/09/2001 02:11 GMT
My mapping sys has crashed badly. I'll be off line for a week or so while it gets an enema, but just before I go...

I found this gem on a search through the Qboard archive. Most of it applies to Quake as well as Quake2. A more succint and informative piece I have never seen.

A Quake 2 .map file is a collection of convex brushes. Each brush is made up from a number of plane surfaces. Each plane surface has a set of properties. The area the .map covers is a cube, extending 4096 units from the origin coordinates (0,0,0) in the X, Y, Z directions.

QBSP3 reads all the brush information from the .map file, checks for conflicting surface properties, invalid brushes and brushes which extend further than the 4096 unit limit. Intersecting brushes can cause mess later on, and so all intersecting brushes are subtracted from each other.
Next QBSP begins to split up the negative (non-solid-brush) space in the map into solid convex volumes called "nodes", each described by its own set of planes just like a brush. To start with, it selects the best candidate plane it can find, and cuts the whole map into two areas, along this plane - the cut is called a "portal". Brush planes with a larger surface area are considered to be better candidates to be used to cut portals. To save time finding the best candidate in large maps, it just cuts the map literally in half along the plane X=0. The two halves are the first branches of a binary tree. The next cut splits the first half in half again, along the plane Y=0, the next splits the second half in half again along Y=0 and so on. Each area is split in half and in half again until the map is split into 64 1024*1024*8192 unit areas called blocks, which are now the lowest 'branches' of the binary tree. Most of these blocks do not contain any brushes, so they are each a solid convex volume and do not need splitting again - they are known as leaves, and each leaf terminates the branch of the tree it is on.
The negative space in each of the remaining branches is split again to create more branches, this time using the best candidate plane surface of all the brushes in the branch. This is repeated over and over until the branches are convex leaf-nodes and do not need to be split again.

All surfaces with the "solid" property are candidates to be used by QBSP3 to create "portals", splitting up the space through which the player can move in the map. This information is saved in a BSP tree form - each node is a leaf of the tree.

Portals are cuts in the map chosen by qbsp3 from brush planes. All surfaces along a portal will be split by the cut it makes. The cuts can run the whole length of the block, or just the width of the brush, depending on how far down the tree they are created.

Leaf-nodes are convex, like brushes. When you run QVIS3, it goes through each leaf of the tree, calculating which of the other leaf-nodes it can "see", records this information in a table, compresses it, and writes it back to the BSP.

When you run around the map in Quake2, you're moving through the space which has been broken up into leaf-nodes. At any one instant in time, your position is determined to be in a single leaf-node, so Q2 uses the information which QVIS3 recorded, to decide which of the other leaf-nodes in the map are visible to you. As you move from one node to another, different areas become 'visible', this is very well illustrated by using gl_showtris 1 and walking around any fully compiled Q2 level.

Hint surfaces are candidates for creating portals. In QBSP3, they are given a higher priority than normal solid brushes, and are used earlier to create portals. Using them in your map allows you to more reliably control the location and extent of the portals, and therefore control the shape, position, and number of leaf-nodes in the BSP tree. Theyre called hints because they allow you to give QBSP some "hints" on the most efficient arrangement of the portals and nodes.
Using hints creates new surfaces for qbsp to consider when choosing planes for portals, so more cuts are made in the map, increasing bsp complexity and increasing the number of polys created from each surface. To best avoid increasing complexity using hints, try to place hints aligned with the architecture in the map as much as possible. QBSP3 merges faces which are on the same plan and sharing the same properties, however there is a limit on the size of faces in Q2, any face with a dimension >=256 units will be split up, and it will not merge two faces if the resulting face is >=256 units high/wide.

When Willits made Q2dm1 I guess hint brushes were pretty new to him, so he hadn't had time to experiment to get the best use out of them. He's definetly done a better job of it in Q3test1, aligning hints to walls and using them in much larger numbers, and the map layout is also a little more bsp-friendly than Q2dm1. Despite this theres a lot more you can do with hints to improve the efficiency of qbsp3 and qvis3.

-SPoG


Thank you SPoG

[Reply]


Vis
#1691 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 27/09/2001 13:08 GMT
I was wondering if someone could please explain some of the uses of vis or more specifically rvis+.

Anyway, what does verbose (-v) do?
Also, in terms of 'percentages' -level 4 being 100%, what would -fast be?

Seems silly, but I would like to be inlightened.

cheers

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1692 Posted by wrath [213.67.120.164], 27/09/2001 16:44 GMT
bsp tech makes my head hurt.

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BLAM!!
#1693 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.35.157], 27/09/2001 18:43 GMT
sorry, my brain exploded

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I Piss Vis.
#1694 Posted by necros [152.163.204.43], 27/09/2001 22:38 GMT
never use -fast. it's quite pointless, considering it only calculates the base of the vis tree. basically, it does a piss-poor job, and still takes a while to do. (with hardly any performance gain) You'd be better off using a normal vis. As for percentages... i don't really know (or care =\ ) I guess -fast would be 15% or something...

rvis+ is basically rvis, except there's a counter added in there.

-v outputs extra information... none of which i've found useful... =P I suppose it's good for debugging the program itself.

What exactly do you mean by: I was wondering if someone could please explain some of the uses of vis or more specifically rvis+.? You mean you really dont know what vis does?Smile well, then:

vis bascially takes all the leaf information (read above post, if you can take it) and creates a visibility data set for quake to read. it's infinitly faster than having the game calculate vis 'on the fly', (-novis in glquake), since all of that is done prior.

If you don't know what i mean, just consider that vis tells quake when to draw certain walls depending on where you are in the map.

Hope you got that. (I'm a crappy teacher)...Tongue

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1695 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.116], 28/09/2001 03:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1694
Using -novis on the command line doesn't make the engine calculate visibility "on the fly", it just makes it ignore the PVS and draw everything.

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Tyrann
#1696 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.146], 28/09/2001 11:52 GMT
Well, technically, z-buffering is a visibility algorithm :]

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Maj
#1697 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 28/09/2001 12:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1696
Hehe, yeah I suppose it is. Wink

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necros Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1698 Posted by necros [152.163.204.137], 28/09/2001 17:14 GMT , Refers to Post #1695
well, whatever... it's novis 1 in the console though, not a command line...
And anyway, i just remember reading that somewhere.

[Reply]


Custom Textures In Qeradiant
#1699 Posted by Memento [129.240.241.84], 30/09/2001 02:39 GMT
Memento has a huge problem. How can I tell radiant that I want to use other tex in my Q2 map than those in pak0.pak? In the preferences-screen, one can only setup 1 pak, but what do I do if I want to use textures from other paks/wal-dirs AS WELL?

Map Wars - Episode 5 - The Empire Maps Back

[Reply]


Can't Take A Screenshot
#1700 Posted by Smite [24.4.253.41], 30/09/2001 02:58 GMT
When I try to take a screenshot it comes out looking like a lo-res jumble of the shot I took.

Can anybody offer any suggestions?

[Reply]


Smite:
#1701 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.132.160], 30/09/2001 11:12 GMT
Well, it might help if you said what game you wanted to take a screenshot of. I'm gonna presume its q2 seeing as i got that error with it a while ago...

Try switching to higher resolution, OpenGL mode (if your GFX card supports it) or windowed mode. One of those should work.

[Reply]


Sorry
#1702 Posted by Smite [24.4.253.41], 30/09/2001 13:48 GMT , Refers to Post #1701
I was referring to Q1. the window idea helped a great deal. Thank you.

[Reply]


Thanks
#1703 Posted by Asriel [203.98.21.44], 04/10/2001 12:36 GMT
Cheers necros and co, those posts did help explain vis, a fair bit.

[Reply]


Pretty Easy
#1704 Posted by kanaeda [64.71.235.99], 04/10/2001 19:53 GMT , Refers to Post #1699
if you want to use textures that are in another .pak file, you need to extract them. qeradiant can only read textures from one .pak file at a time (i'm not 100% certain on this one, tho).

to use other textures in your /baseq2/textures directory you need to go to the project settings and simply set the correct texture path. restart radiant and you should find a bigger list of textures.

[Reply]


Hey
#1705 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 08/10/2001 16:42 GMT
I heard there's a program that converts Q2 map format to Q1 map format.. Now where can I find that piece of useful software?:) (I'm asking this because I'd wanna map with QERadiant rather than Worldcraft)

tack så mycket

[Reply]


Hanz
#1706 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.79.77], 08/10/2001 17:33 GMT
http://rem.fov120.com/projects.php4 - there!

It's the "map converter" link, if you couldn't guess...

[Reply]


Re: Hanz
#1707 Posted by Shadowdane [208.203.4.100], 08/10/2001 18:12 GMT , Refers to Post #1706
acually Sleepwalker's map converter just converts the .map file to Q1 format. It doesn't convert textures to Q2 .wal format...

Wally supports this, you can use the batch process to do em all in one pass.

Wally - http://www.telefragged.com/wally/

[Reply]


Re: Hanz
#1708 Posted by Shadowdane [208.203.4.100], 08/10/2001 18:13 GMT , Refers to Post #1706
acually Sleepwalker's map converter just converts the .map file to Q1 format. It doesn't convert textures to Q2 .wal format...

Wally supports this, you can use the batch process to do em all in one pass.

Wally - http://www.telefragged.com/wally

[Reply]


Shadowdane Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1709 Posted by Shadowdane [208.203.4.100], 08/10/2001 18:14 GMT
sorry about the double post..

the first time i posted i got an error. Neutral

[Reply]


Hanz Thought A Double Post Wasn't Needed
#1710 Posted by Hanz [193.229.255.17], 08/10/2001 19:39 GMT
Thanks heaps for the info you both. I'm just sick of Worldcraft crashing and 3d-view picking not working :P

[Reply]


Hanz:
#1711 Posted by czg [158.38.54.39], 09/10/2001 07:53 GMT
Disable hardware acceleration in WorldCraft. Just about everyone who's having exceptionally horrible problems with WC are trying to run it with hardware. Just doesn't work.

[Reply]


Func_Trains...
#1712 Posted by necros [172.158.24.17], 10/10/2001 01:41 GMT
A while ago, just for fun, I made a silly map with func_trains which raced around through canyons. (This was after I saw StarWars Ep1 btw...)

Anyway, I noticed that after the trains moved more than 1000 or so units, the train entity disapeared... is this an engine limitation?

[Reply]


Czg
#1713 Posted by hanz. [193.167.5.167], 10/10/2001 05:01 GMT
I tried without acceleration and it did work, but then the program was horribly slow to use. Software rendering is just too slooow.

[Reply]


Clipping Weirdness.
#1714 Posted by Biff_Debris [12.93.210.236], 11/10/2001 01:19 GMT
Hey guys, if you clip a leak in q1, you get weird portal errors. Asaki just found this out (using QBSP and WQBSP -- while TomazQBSP found the leak). Just thought it'd make a good Tip O' The Day =)

[Reply]


Clip A Leak?
#1715 Posted by czg [158.38.54.48], 11/10/2001 08:35 GMT
Please explain. I do not follow.

[Reply]


#1716 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 12/10/2001 01:05 GMT , Refers to Post #1715
you put a clip brush over it so you don't fall out!

[Reply]


Errm, Ok
#1717 Posted by czg [158.38.54.74], 12/10/2001 12:19 GMT
And that would help how?

[Reply]


Maybe?
#1718 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.184], 13/10/2001 08:41 GMT
If you 'accidentally' made the texture covering a leak a clip texture?
I dunno, that may have been a reason.
Maybe?

[Reply]


Newbie Qbsp Problem
#1719 Posted by venomus [152.163.204.51], 13/10/2001 14:29 GMT
I am running txqbsp (modified version of qbsp that comes with Quark) to compile my map, but it isn't generating a .prt file. Therefore I can't run Rvis . Here is my compile log:

TXQBSP 0.6 - based on QBSP by John Carmack. Modified by Armin Rigo
--------------------------------
with extensions for QuArK (Quake Army Knife) :
floating-point coordinates and enhanced texture positionning
http://www.planetquake.com/quark
--------------------------------
outputfile: D:\Program Files\Quake\editing\compiler\bob.bsp
--- LoadMapFile ---
D:\Program Files\Quake\editing\compiler\bob.map
986 brushes
2 entities
67 miptex
266 texinfo
building hulls sequentially...
--- Brush_LoadEntity ---
980 brushes read
---- CSGFaces ----
7645 brushfaces
38277 csgfaces
5357 mergedfaces
----- SolidBSP -----
6588 split nodes
3307 solid leafs
3282 empty leafs
0 water leafs
12526 leaffaces
11145 nodefaces
----- portalize ----
WARNING: CutNodePortals_r:new portal was clipped away
----- FillOutside ----
2308 outleafs
----- SolidBSP -----
4024 split nodes
2246 solid leafs
1779 empty leafs
0 water leafs
9180 leaffaces
7871 nodefaces
--- FinishBSPFile ---
WriteBSPFile: D:\Program Files\Quake\editing\compiler\bob.bsp
added 8 texture frames
3126 planes 62520
14109 vertexes 169308
7373 nodes 176952
266 texinfo 10640
12585 faces 251700
6241 clipnodes 49928
4448 leafs 124544
14378 marksurfaces 28756
49869 surfedges 99738
33389 edges 133556
75 textures 500384
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 162
568.0 seconds elapsed

What gives?

[Reply]


Uuuh
#1720 Posted by czg [158.38.54.64], 13/10/2001 15:16 GMT
I am still very confused about what 'clipping a leak' would be. It makes no sense whatsoever.

As for your compile problems venomus, that is sadly something that will happen from time to time. Try doing some crap with the map and compile again, maybe it will jut work fine. I doubt that the Qbsp is b0rked, but you never know. Maybe try another one? (Though you prolly won't fint that 'enhanced texture positionning' trinket in any other Qbsp. (If it is what I think it is.))

[Reply]


It Probably Means That
#1721 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.201.171], 13/10/2001 17:37 GMT , Refers to Post #1719
you have a leak in your map. Unfortunately Txqbsp 0.6 has a bug that sometimes inhibits the leak information. I have sent an updated version to the QuArK guys (that I think fixes this problem) but they haven't made it public yet.

In the meantime you might try to add the switch "-verbose" and see if that helps displaying the leak information. In any case, you have to follow CZGs advice and change the map.

[Reply]


No .prt File
#1722 Posted by QuakeTree [205.186.177.110], 14/10/2001 00:01 GMT , Refers to Post #1719
This happens to me also sometimes. While I don't know what causes it I do know that somewhere you have a brush that is at least acting like a fuc_wall somewhere in your map.

What I usually do is select the entire map and move it 128 units (up/down whatever), I have no idea why this works for me but it does (note that I am using WinQoole and various versions of QBSP so this sounds like a problem with the bsp programs).

Good luck...

[Reply]


TXQbsp...
#1723 Posted by necros [172.138.138.193], 14/10/2001 01:47 GMT
i hate it. i used to use it, and it gave me more errors than i have shit in the last five years... er... yes.

My advice is use WQBSP, it works much better, and generates PTS files properly.

And I do use Quark with wqbsp, and it's fine.

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1724 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.189], 14/10/2001 03:05 GMT
Quark with wqbsp ? you prolly use some old quark. 6 requires TXqbsp for reading it`s .map`s

[Reply]


's What I Said.
#1725 Posted by necros [172.129.100.20], 14/10/2001 15:34 GMT
quark 4.07. i hate all those new quarks. too many wierd thingys that i can't be arsed to learn. =P

[Reply]


venomus Is Still Working On A Title
#1726 Posted by venomus [64.12.107.29], 14/10/2001 23:10 GMT
Well I recompiled with wqbsp, and found that there was indeed a leak, complete with pointfile amd all! I only use Quark for the entity placement anyway.

Thanx to everyone who replied.

[Reply]


Czg:
#1727 Posted by NotoriousRay [199.75.227.29], 15/10/2001 03:53 GMT
clipping a leak means (probably accidentally) putting a clipbrush over where the level sees into the void. since clip is nonvisible it still counts as a leak.

[Reply]


Hmm..
#1728 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.183], 16/10/2001 05:37 GMT
NR - thats exactly what i ment

[Reply]


Void Colour
#1729 Posted by Asriel [203.96.152.183], 16/10/2001 05:41 GMT
Is there a way to change the colour of the void?
A bright yellow or something like that might make leaks easier to see?

And going along with the leak thing : Has anyone tried coding a better pointfile system?

QC?

[Reply]


Load A Map
#1730 Posted by Speedy [57.66.134.250], 16/10/2001 13:42 GMT
in q3radiant - it`s the best editor for leak searching imo (and it it loads most q1 maps)

Or try some other editors that loads pointfiles and shows them (bsp does that but not the best way)

[Reply]


In GLQuake
#1731 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.203.149], 16/10/2001 16:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1729
you can use "gl_clear 1" in the console to make the void bright red.

[Reply]


In Quake 3
#1732 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 16/10/2001 19:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1731
you can use "r_clear 1" for a bright purple void.

[Reply]


In Software Q1...
#1733 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.68.64], 16/10/2001 21:34 GMT
You can use r_clearcolor <0..255> to change the void colour.

I can understand about the pointfile system myself. There's nothing worse than waiting the better part of an hour while QBSP "writes" a .pts - honestly, that's happened to me! Mind you, WC's pointfile loading sucks something so unspeakably vile that I can't put a name to it. Eurgh.

[Reply]


Yaeh Uh Wow
#1734 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 17/10/2001 23:53 GMT
So big Night Journey map, has a leak or ten, compiles fine otherwise. I attempt to load it in Quake:

"Error: SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set

C:\quake>"

ideas?

on clipping a leak. You know what's an amusing bad practice, when Qbsp refuses to render something solid (usually due to complexity), clipping it. Heh. Not that I do that or anything, ahem. And no, this has nothing to do with my problem :)

[Reply]


.bsp?
#1735 Posted by proj [158.252.33.140], 18/10/2001 02:02 GMT
I have been trying for some time to finalize my quake II mod. I created a level using the qoole level editor and exported it as a .map file. How can I save it as a .bsp file so that I can insert it into quake's pak1 directory using qped and play it as a multiplayer game? Or am I going about this entirely the wrong way? I'm so very new. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

PROJ

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1736 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.179], 18/10/2001 02:16 GMT
lol
RTFM actually

[Reply]


#1737 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 18/10/2001 03:17 GMT , Refers to Post #1735
Alright... what you need to do is known as compiling. Your .map is run thru 3 processes: bsp, light and vis. Then, you put the .bsp in the quake/id1/maps.

bsp makes your .map into a .bsp which Quake can read. why not stop there? load it up in Quake and you'll see... It's fullbright and probably runs slowly.

light will light your map. simple eh?

vis optimises your map.

that's the basics of it. there are plenty of opinions availible to use with compiling, but that's a bit beyond this explaination.

NOW, to run the compilers, I believe Qoole has a Build command or a make or something similar in the menus which will bring up a window that you can use to select which process to run and if you want to start Quake after the compile.

Here's a link to QuakeLabs' Basics section. Probably best that you read thru the stuff over at QuakeLab, it'll teach you alot.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1738 Posted by Speedy [213.158.0.179], 18/10/2001 03:38 GMT
afair ctrl-b in winqoole..
yeah I still remember this

but really how can you map and not know how to compile shit ?
to sound less offending: read the manual/tutorial like "your first quake map"
but dont do CSG subtract and stick to grid and ... ditch qoole

[Reply]


Opps!
#1739 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 18/10/2001 04:21 GMT , Refers to Post #1737
missed the 2 when you said Quake2... but the info i said still applies... just light is called rad and you put your map in quake2/baseq2/maps

[Reply]


[Tronyn]
#1740 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 18/10/2001 19:30 GMT
I think this occurs when you overflow the entity limit.

[Reply]


Error: SZ_GetSpace: Overflow Without All
#1741 Posted by necros [172.158.137.192], 18/10/2001 21:42 GMT
Lth is right. The total number of precaches is going over 255 (all BModels, Monsters, Items, etc...). You'll have to remove some triggers and doors... (maybe you have a lot of teleporting monsters?)

[Reply]


Frick
#1742 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 19/10/2001 02:19 GMT
well that's gh3y

man this map is massive
its like moonlit assault + the final threat + toum + all of czg07 in one bsp.

lol

actually, it's just the dazsp2 maps, redone, plus a bunch of new stuff all in one bsp. and if I ever load it in quake the gameplay will be the most overdone brutal fun gameplay ever.

[Reply]


Oooh!
#1743 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.155], 19/10/2001 11:58 GMT
In which casse I demand to beta test it!

[Reply]


Bounce In Quake RAD
#1744 Posted by venomus [152.163.207.67], 19/10/2001 19:46 GMT
I am a more used to Half-Life mapping than Quake 1 mapping, and in Half-Life there is a parameter within RAD that allows you to specify how many times light bounces (refracts). Is there anything like this in Quake 1 compilers because I noticed the lighting in my map was looking a bit stark. If not what can I do to improve lighting (with the compiler or otherwise)?

[Reply]


More .bsp
#1745 Posted by proj [158.252.33.226], 19/10/2001 20:04 GMT , Refers to Post #1737
actually, i had already tried to compile it and got the following self contradictory message...

process failed to start
--------------------------
process completed succesfully

and no .bsp

what is the mapping editor of choice? at this point it seems as if i should try to take my .map file and compile it elsewhere. i'm assuming from speedy's comment that qoole is quite buggy. i have been using csg subtract quite a bit and sometimes am not snapped to grid...

[Reply]


Venomus:
#1746 Posted by czg [158.38.54.40], 19/10/2001 20:41 GMT
Someone recently ported the half-life radiosity utils over to Quake, have a look about in last three weeks news and you'll prolly find it. The original lighting utils does not support any kind of bouncing.

[Reply]


Hmm
#1747 Posted by Asriel [203.79.75.66], 20/10/2001 06:41 GMT , Refers to Post #1745
You will probably have to start map again, or just delete a whole heap of stuff, because if you can't compile it via qoole (does it come with the base qbsp?) the you won't be able to compile it with any other map editor.

Anyone care to elaborate?

[Reply]


Max_submodels Error In Q3 Radiant
#1748 Posted by Glizdu$ [195.205.248.86], 20/10/2001 07:17 GMT
my map contains almost 10000 brushes and 900 entities. when i want to load my map in Q3 (Urban Terror map) max_submodels error shows up. help me !!!

[Reply]


Skining The Md3 Models
#1749 Posted by Glizdu$ [195.205.248.86], 20/10/2001 07:19 GMT
why my mapobjects made in 3D Max Studio does not have skins on in ???

[Reply]


Glizdu$
#1750 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.112], 20/10/2001 21:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1748
Clipped from the Q3World Level Editing Forum after searching for "max_submodels":

SUBMODELS are all the entities in your level that have a texture on them, including the trigger texture, such as func_static, trigger_hurt, trigger_teleport, func_door, etc. The hard coded into the .EXE limit for these entities is 256. Ent's that appear in the editor as a cube are not included, just the ones that can have a texture on them, regardless if they are drawn in the game or not.

[Reply]


Question
#1751 Posted by NotoriousRay [4.17.67.90], 21/10/2001 04:27 GMT
so i finished one of the final sections in pbrsp1 today and when i compiled it, theres a weird error where a solid brush exists such that when you walk on it, you fall through. its only a 128unit long a slanted walkway and you only fall through where it meets a flat ground-ish area. anyone seen this before? i have a pretty complex func_wall below it (on the ground, not touched the actual brush). could this be messing it up somehow?

[Reply]


This Happens
#1752 Posted by czg [158.38.54.64], 21/10/2001 14:57 GMT
...at times...



(Sorry if you thought I had an answer... )

[Reply]


Carp...
#1753 Posted by necros [172.149.52.13], 21/10/2001 15:10 GMT
I hate that error... it's usually caused by some wierd angles which are intersecting the floor with this problem. There are two ways to fix this. 1. Delete it all, and restart, or 2. Make any fancy walls, or anything you may thing which is causing this, into func_walls (these won't interfer with the world brush). Simply cover the back of the func_walls with a brush so it doesn't leak, and compile. do this until the problem goes away... sorry, but this is the only way i found of 'fixing' it.

[Reply]


Ray
#1754 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112], 21/10/2001 18:20 GMT , Refers to Post #1751
Try placing a clip brush a pixel or two above the problem area. The player won't notice that they're walking a pixel or so higher and it usually does the trick.

[Reply]


Thnx CZG
#1755 Posted by venomus [152.163.197.209], 21/10/2001 20:57 GMT
Ummm can't find the post but thanx for your reply to my request for bounce-supporting radiosity program CZG! This (q1rad) is excellent! Half_life style environment (sky) lighting! Texture lights! All you Q1 mappers who don't know what I'm ranting about have to try this!

[Reply]


GL Settings
#1756 Posted by Jaj [62.83.163.37], 25/10/2001 23:17 GMT
This is not exactly a "mapping question", but a technical one.

I'm trying to tune up my graphic card, an old TNT and i don't know exactly how it works "Buffer flipping mode" and what exactly is "Vertical sync." that appears in the Open GL settings menu.

Thanks, and if someone want to explain more related concepts... perfect!, because i'm a bit confused with all these concepts. Pig

[Reply]


Re: GL Settings
#1757 Posted by necros [172.186.136.83], 26/10/2001 00:21 GMT
Vertical Sync: When it's on, the max refresh rate (frame rate) will be sync'ed to your monitor's refresh rate (Most are between 60 to 80 Hz i believe). Obviously, some people prolly want more (me, 80 fps is great, but some people just want more). Disabling vsync will get you much better frame rates (I can get 250 FPS in TomazQuake!!! Evil) but at the risk that it could damage yer monitor... I've never seen this happen, but i've read that it can.

I'm not fomiliar with Buffer Flipping Mode, though... sorry =\ I think it has something to do with the way the card buffers the video in it's ram, but i could be talking out of my ass... i believe there are two settings: "Use block transfer" and "Use Page Flip". Just try switching between the two and see...

I don't know If TNT cards have this, but if your looking for performance, consider disable FSAA (Full Screen Anti-Aliasing). This will signifigantly improve frame rate.

[Reply]


Vsync
#1758 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 26/10/2001 07:35 GMT
The electron gun/cannon updating your screen starts at the top of your screen and then goes down row by row updating the screen.

With vsync on the image in your videomemory won't be displayed on the screen until the gun has drawn one full screen and restarted at top. Your videocard is however likely to compute new frames either faster or slower than the monitor refresh.

With vsync off the electron gun will start using information from a new frame as soon as that exists wich will result in that the image will be updated at the pace your cpu/videocard manages to keep. This might however result in that one screen consists of several frames (for example top half shows one frame and bottom the next frame) wich might not always look good.

I don't think the biggest "problem" with vsync lies with fps being higher than the monitor refresh rate but when it's lower than the refresh rate. If it takes 1.5 monitor refreshes for a new frame to be drawn to video memory the screen will only be updated every 2nd vertical retrace.

(Hmm now this is such a mess i don't know what to say, suppose I should make some kind of summary..)

The choice to have vsync on or off is most important for lower fps,

vsync on: the visible fps might become lower than what your computer setup is capable of
vsync off: Might not look good if fps is fairly low since you'll be able to actually see different frames on screen at the same time

I've never heard anything about disabling vsync might damage your monitor.

[Reply]


Re: GL Settings
#1759 Posted by Gilt [207.245.223.94], 26/10/2001 15:25 GMT
When I was learning about video cards I found this site to be very helpful...

Double Buffering, Page Flipping, & Unchained Mode

[Reply]


Thank You Guys
#1760 Posted by Jaj [62.83.166.171], 27/10/2001 00:46 GMT
Now i understand better all those concepts.
And Gilt, good link Pacman

[Reply]


Reducing Brushes&r_speeds
#1761 Posted by Jaj [62.83.168.78], 01/11/2001 22:44 GMT
Well, i'm making a Quake1 level and in order to reduce the number of brushes and consequently the r_speeds, i'm combinating some texes.
But i have this doubt: When you put on a brush, a texture of, let's say "160 (units height)*128 (units width)", then the Quake engine will split that brush into 2, being the same using two brushes with the 2 texes for each one, that one only brush with the 160*128 texture, and being the same for the r_speeds.

Note: I'm not sure if it could be each 128 units or each 256. ;p

[Reply]


Please Tell Me...
#1762 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 03/11/2001 16:27 GMT
how tall is mr. dick knuckle (q1 marine), and at what height is the camera set?

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1763 Posted by XeNoN [195.8.79.126], 03/11/2001 18:00 GMT
how tall is mr. dick knuckle (q1 marine), and at what height is the camera set?


His name is Phil, you ass :P
And he's 64 units tall... not sure of his eye-height though

[Reply]


Nnnoooo
#1764 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 03/11/2001 21:35 GMT , Refers to Post #1763
he's not that high

[Reply]


Erm...
#1765 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.109.168], 03/11/2001 23:27 GMT
I think the good Richard "Skippy" Knuckle stands about 56 units tall, with an eye height maybe 48 units high. I'm unsure but I think he's about 40-something units wide.

[Reply]


Bah!
#1766 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 04/11/2001 00:01 GMT
Phil is the nehahra marine. totally different animal from the old-skool, battle hardened corproal Knuckle. :)

thanks a bunch guys. this info will be put to very good use.

[Reply]


Yeah, Yeah...
#1767 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.136.183], 04/11/2001 00:06 GMT
Smile

I thought the old version was "Ranger" anyway?

[Reply]


No Way
#1768 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 04/11/2001 00:58 GMT
ranger is the silly cloned version they tossed into q3:a. he doesn't come close to comparing to the real thing. ;p

[Reply]


#1769 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 04/11/2001 03:58 GMT
i always thought his name was captian buckethead

[Reply]


Dilvish Is Still Working On A Title
#1770 Posted by Dilvish [172.188.32.26], 04/11/2001 13:22 GMT
Richard "Skippy" Knuckle stands about 56 units tall, with an eye height maybe 48 units high
that would give him a forehead 8 units high! Didn't know Boris Karloff had the main role in Q1!

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1771 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.147.123], 04/11/2001 22:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1770
Well, I'm just guessing about his eye level.

[Reply]


It Does Seem About Right
#1772 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 04/11/2001 22:44 GMT , Refers to Post #1771
so i'd say it was a damn good guess. mostly likely educated even. Smile

[Reply]


Hey, It Was Too
#1773 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.95.38], 04/11/2001 22:51 GMT
Just went for a walk around in Quake, and my eyeline is close as dammit to 48 units off the ground. It's actually a little bit less, but no matter.

[Reply]


Error Help
#1774 Posted by joco50 [12.74.22.82], 05/11/2001 00:32 GMT
My map compiles,but when I try to run it I get "Error: PF_SETMODEL:NULL". Using QERadientb147 (Lazarus), Quake2 map. Can you please tell me what causes this error? Thanks.

[Reply]


Speedy Is Still Working On A Title
#1775 Posted by Speedy [213.221.48.32], 05/11/2001 02:50 GMT
eye level ! that is one insane map

[Reply]


Texture Alert
#1776 Posted by Biff_Debris [12.93.209.34], 05/11/2001 02:57 GMT
Anyone know where I can get some q1 bathroom-tile tex? Im remember there being some halfway-decent ones in the old QED texture pack, but theyre site isn't up anymore...

And YES, there will be a toilet in imp1sp3 =)

[Reply]


Q2 Textures
#1777 Posted by Electro [210.50.32.111], 05/11/2001 10:12 GMT
anyone know where i can get a wad of the q2 textures for q1?

[Reply]


Q1 Player Specifics
#1778 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.168], 05/11/2001 12:54 GMT
The Quake1 player is exactly 32x32x56 in size. His eye level is 22 units above his origin, which is 24 units above the ground, for a big 46 unit-height eye level, which of course bobs slightly.

Interestingly though, the player seems to require gap wider than 32 units to be able to pass through it, even though the QC gives his size as 32x32...

[Reply]


Well
#1779 Posted by czg [158.38.54.76], 05/11/2001 15:12 GMT
The player is 36 units fat

[Reply]


Electro;
#1780 Posted by XeNoN [212.219.57.59], 05/11/2001 16:14 GMT , Refers to Post #1777
Do you have q2? There's a small utility you can use to extract and convert them yourself if you have the game. If so, I can email it to you when I get home if you want. If not, its best just extracting them from various custom Q1 levels

[Reply]


Or
#1781 Posted by DaZ [213.122.127.222], 05/11/2001 16:55 GMT
theres the easy way :

Use Worldcrafts built in texture extractor... Smile

And yes it does work!

[Reply]


Or...
#1782 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 05/11/2001 18:55 GMT
you should be able to get them thru opiates texture site on PQ if any of the links still work. the sunet.com (sweden) ftp should still be working. i was able to get a bunch of really old quake maps thru that server.

[Reply]


Czg...
#1783 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 05/11/2001 19:30 GMT , Refers to Post #1779
in defs.qc:

VEC_HULL_MIN = '-16 -16 -24';
VEC_HULL_MAX = '16 16 32';

[Reply]


Clipping Hull Sizes
#1784 Posted by metlslime [24.4.254.155], 06/11/2001 05:41 GMT
vec3_t hull_size[3][2] = {
{ {0, 0, 0}, {0, 0, 0} },
{ {-16,-16,-32}, {16,16,24} },
{ {-32,-32,-64}, {32,32,24} }

};


(taken from qbsp\brush.c)

Collision detection between an entity and the world is done by treating the entity as a point and colliding it against one of the two clipping hulls (one for player sized ents and one for shambler sized ents.)

The clipping hulls are created by running the bsp process again on 'expanded' brushes, i.e. brushes where each brushface (which is actually an infinite plane) is expandaed outward a certain distance, determined by the hull_size array. The actual function to do this is ExpandBrush. An excerpt:

for (i=0 ; i<numbrushfaces ; i++)
{
p = &faces[i].plane;
VectorCopy (vec3_origin, corner);
for (x=0 ; x<3 ; x++)
{
if (p->normal[x] > 0)
corner[x] = hull_size[hullnum][1][x];
else if (p->normal[x] < 0)
corner[x] = hull_size[hullnum][0][x];
}
p->dist += DotProduct (corner, p->normal);
}


As for why a 32-wide player can't walk through a 32-wide doorway, i guess the reason is that if you have two opposing brushfaces 32 units apart, and each one is moved 16 units towards the other, then you end up with two brushes touching each other. Qbsp seals zero-width gaps between brushes, of course, and even a point-sized entity can't pass through a solid wall.

[Reply]


Re: Clipping Hull Sizes
#1785 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112], 06/11/2001 13:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1784
Thanks Metlslime, that's a great explanation! Smile

[Reply]


Quark Help!
#1786 Posted by Timberwolf [195.121.231.81], 06/11/2001 22:00 GMT
Question on quark:
Can somebody tell me how I can put a .tga file on a box? Because when I choose a .tga file I've downloaded I get an error that says its not a tga file. And something with special past.. Please help!

[Reply]


Metlslime
#1787 Posted by R.P.G. [64.12.104.46], 06/11/2001 22:23 GMT , Refers to Post #1784
I wish I could conf00se people like that. Wink

[Reply]


Error
#1788 Posted by project [63.178.120.214], 06/11/2001 23:19 GMT
i get the following error...
ERROR:cmod_loadbrushmodel:
maps/X.bsp has wrong version number
(xxx should be 38)

???
also, what editor would you reccommend?
where can I find it? I've been hitting a lot of links to nowhere these days...

[Reply]


Project
#1789 Posted by XeNoN [212.126.136.127], 07/11/2001 00:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1788
It'd help alot if you said what game... there are many mapped for round these parts...

[Reply]


Opening Q3radient
#1790 Posted by cmo [61.9.157.161], 07/11/2001 04:12 GMT , Refers to Post #1789
when i open q3radient it looks for a .prj or .qe4 file, i dont have any and its the first time ive run it.

any ideas O_o?

[Reply]


Oh,
#1791 Posted by metlslime [24.4.254.155], 07/11/2001 06:24 GMT
i guess i forgot to mention that the second chunk of code is also taken from qbsp\brush.c.

[Reply]


No Qe4 File
#1792 Posted by Shallow[BAP] [212.135.236.122], 07/11/2001 09:47 GMT , Refers to Post #1790
Usually this seems to happen where people have downloaded an old patch version of q3radiant instead of a full install. Go to QERadiant.com and dig out the latest version of GTKRadiant.

[Reply]


Oops
#1793 Posted by project [168.191.115.86], 07/11/2001 11:30 GMT , Refers to Post #1789
im mapping for for quake II using qoole.

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WindowsXP
#1794 Posted by Requiem [24.127.29.20], 08/11/2001 07:22 GMT
I've tried a couple different front-ends for compiling my latest Quake2 creation under WindowsXP but alas nothing happens. A Dos-Box is created and then terminates just as quickly.

I can compile the map using QERadiant 147 and I could compile the map launching the DeWan compilers separately from the command prompt. Any idea why front-ends like Q2Beaver and Q2Compile Center aren't working in WindowsXP?

BTW, XP is using NTFS in case that has anything to do with it.

If you respond, please email me at rqm@planetquake.com just in case I don't get to return to the board asap.

[Reply]


Beeefff...
#1795 Posted by palldjon@i-cafe [61.9.128.142], 10/11/2001 06:56 GMT , Refers to Post #1776
You've prolly had an answer on #rtf but why not try the fat one's site. Hooligan Circus had some tile and plumbing texes. Fatty used 'em in OUM if I remember correctly. One of the HFX wads also had a crateload of tiles.

Imp1sp3 ?????? I thought you were moving over to a Q2 project. If you're still keen on Quake the door is still open at The 0ther 0peration Smile. Oh, I'll be up for a test on Imp1sp3 if you need Beer.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1796 Posted by gibbie [213.46.20.56], 10/11/2001 17:47 GMT
Timberwolf:
open pic in photoshop or something, select all, ctrl-c.
then goto quarks texture browser and paste it in a subdir.
rename and use in your maps.

thats how i do it :)

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1797 Posted by gibbie [213.46.20.56], 10/11/2001 17:47 GMT
Timberwolf:
open pic in photoshop or something, select all, ctrl-c.
then goto quarks texture browser and paste it in a subdir.
rename and use in your maps.

thats how i do it :)

[Reply]


Um...
#1798 Posted by necros [172.153.200.92], 10/11/2001 21:47 GMT
you can just press f3 and then select all the files to import... They have to be bmps though... i just run a batch to convert all the textures to bmp format, then import em into quark.

[Reply]


Beta Testing
#1799 Posted by Cygnus-x1 [213.93.162.164], 10/11/2001 22:50 GMT
So I made a q2tdm map :)

I would apreciate feedback so I can improve.
Many thanks

[Reply]


.tga Has His Own File-format Now!!??
#1800 Posted by DeFrag [66.152.71.4], 13/11/2001 07:08 GMT
hee

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Speedy Is Still Working On A Title
#1801 Posted by Speedy [213.221.48.180], 14/11/2001 04:00 GMT
so does qmd

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Morpheus Playtesters?
#1802 Posted by Nobski [203.134.46.70], 15/11/2001 01:09 GMT
Hey all,
I was wondering if anybody is interested in playtesting my conversion of Unreal's Morpheus? I haven't 'vised' it yet due to time limitation's and my computer, I'll vis it if everything is close to perfect though.... I need playtester's to find problem's with it. (If someone has a beast of a computer and would like to help in it's compiling, give me a yell).
The map file is available if needed.
Ahwell gg,
Cheers


Nobski

[Reply]


Uhm...
#1803 Posted by necros [172.142.41.20], 15/11/2001 02:00 GMT , Refers to Post #1802
You'd better vis the level anyway. No one wants to play a slideshow.

But when you do, just send me a link, and I'll test it.

[Reply]


Eh?
#1804 Posted by DaZ [213.122.121.246], 15/11/2001 14:34 GMT
Vis'ing in the unreal engine takes no time at all. I re-compiled dm-fractal by accident and it took about a minute... Thats light, bsp, vis, everything...

Mind you, fractal is a very small map Smile

[Reply]


Nobski
#1805 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.55.14], 15/11/2001 16:58 GMT
Yeah i'll help test that map for you, i quite liked the unreal version. Just mail me and i'll check it out.
Cheers

[Reply]


Oh Crap.
#1806 Posted by Nobski [203.134.15.198], 16/11/2001 09:32 GMT
Sorry I didn't specify enough... :)
I converted Morpheus to Quake 1.

Nobski

[Reply]


Hehe
#1807 Posted by Lunaran [63.237.13.2], 16/11/2001 20:18 GMT
All this talk of player proportions raises the gripping question ... does this red armor make me look fat?!

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Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1808 Posted by DeFrag [66.152.70.193], 16/11/2001 20:32 GMT
hehe "No, your face does."

[Reply]


Rofl
#1809 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 16/11/2001 21:38 GMT , Refers to Post #1808

[Reply]


Tehehe
#1810 Posted by Asriel [203.79.80.8], 17/11/2001 10:01 GMT
That was off a david spade movie, wasnt it?

Not the red armour bit though.

[Reply]


DeFrag Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#1811 Posted by DeFrag [66.152.70.32], 17/11/2001 10:42 GMT
Tommy Boy with Spade & the late Farley

[Reply]


Quake 2 Compilers
#1812 Posted by necros [172.148.237.167], 18/11/2001 01:30 GMT
Can someone point me towards a set of Q2 Compilers? I wanted to try this out, and I'm somewhat at a loss...

[Reply]


Stupid Question
#1813 Posted by Edgecrusher [66.19.67.39], 18/11/2001 01:39 GMT
Why is it that when i compile in my level for quake2, everything is fullbright? The level has no leaks

[Reply]


.
#1814 Posted by necros [172.150.101.129], 18/11/2001 02:12 GMT
Well, i'm not all that versed in Q2 Map making, but In Quake, if you don't put any lights into the level, it will be full bright. Either that, or your not processing the light information... heh. Tongue

[Reply]


Hehe
#1815 Posted by Edgecrusher [64.156.21.246], 18/11/2001 04:00 GMT , Refers to Post #1814
Uh, yeah, i know. The lights work fine in quake, no problem there, but when i try to implement lights in q2 it's to no avail, as it's always fullbright.

[Reply]


Mr Crusher And Mr Necros
#1816 Posted by Vigil [193.229.255.17], 18/11/2001 07:37 GMT
Mr Necros, you can get a set of Q2 compilers here. Just don't use QRAD3, but ArghRad, here.

Mr Crusher, you either haven't VISed your level before lighting it, or you've messed up the settings somehow. Shed some more light on the problem, please. And no pun intended, really. Cheese

[Reply]


Coolness
#1817 Posted by DeFrag [66.152.70.222], 18/11/2001 07:42 GMT
MS Flight Simulator Pro 2002 now shipping with gmax!

Lucky for me I just bought MSFSP2K2 last week!

[Reply]


Help Wanted
#1818 Posted by Ramu [195.82.219.217], 18/11/2001 10:53 GMT
i do not have enny ideas. I try to focus more on gamplay now, but I do not have the ideas. I want to create something new, something that havent been done before.

[Reply]


Thanks, Vigil,
#1819 Posted by necros [172.156.121.239], 18/11/2001 15:36 GMT , Refers to Post #1816
but it appears www.planetquake.com/radiosity is broken.

[Reply]


Problem With Coagula Map!
#1820 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.111.83], 18/11/2001 19:08 GMT
here is the problem i have:

my map has been practically finished for about a week, the "only" things i have had to do since then are bug fixes and final compiles. Well, i ironed out the bugs and got everything sorted, so now if you run a problem check in WC all that comes out are the standard 'unused keyvalues' for entities garbage, so all appears to be fine.

run wqbsp and you get no problems,
run tomlite and everything is goodo
but run a full vis and what happens?
...Well, the base vis is calculated just fine in about 1/2 an hour or so, and then the full vising begins:
All is fine up to about 8% of the operation (around 3500 of 37000) but then the process slows down tremendously:
I left it going overnight and in the morning it had got to.......13%! Using only fast-vis isnt an option as the map is too big for fast vis and causes a 'vismap expansion overflow' error....

Any suggestions? Otherwise I will have to pull out of the competition because obviously an unvised void map isnt gonna run at an acceptable rate Sad

Also, if anyone with a good computer would be willing to actually vis it, i'd be very grateful indeed Wink

Please help! thanks!

[Reply]


.
#1821 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 18/11/2001 22:33 GMT , Refers to Post #1820
i'll donate my 1ghz athlon to vising your map.

if you want me to, just slap me in #tf

[Reply]


Horde Maps
#1822 Posted by ChilloMonkey [64.160.200.30], 19/11/2001 00:10 GMT
Horde link is in neeed of some maps. I have created an all new .wad file for this purpose. If you can map, please let me reply. What I am looking for is a mapper who is willing to make a few maps for a game project. There will be many prefabs, and the style of maps will be futuristic. If you have any other questions, reply.

[Reply]


Why I Can't See The Triangles
#1823 Posted by KQ [211.100.0.34], 19/11/2001 03:44 GMT
I loaded a map with the devmap command and typed /r_showtris in the console, but nothing changed, no triangle was shown. Could anybody tell me why's that and how can I get rid of it?

[Reply]


KQ
#1824 Posted by pjw [24.4.254.112], 19/11/2001 04:10 GMT , Refers to Post #1823
I assume you're talking about Quake 3, and I assume that you're running the latest point release (1.30). If these assumptions are both true, then you also need to enter "/developer 1" at the console in order to enable showtris. This is the result of some anti-cheat measures that were implemented in 1.30. Hope this helps.

[Reply]


Vis.
#1825 Posted by necros [172.149.107.113], 19/11/2001 22:50 GMT
Why is it that visage always slows down after a while... I never really understood that. I assume it has to do with the way Vis orders the calculations...

Anyway, I can also vis yer map for ya, Starbuck, if scampie's unavailable. Smile

[Reply]


Thanks Necros
#1826 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.131.192], 19/11/2001 23:48 GMT
scampie is availible though and is vising the map at this moment i think Smile

Hehe the thing is that with this map, the visage doesn't just slow down on my computer, it just hits a 3 foot thick brick wall at about 3500 portals. I don't know why vis slows in general though, but theres always SPoG ;)

[Reply]


Woo
#1827 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 20/11/2001 08:08 GMT
bout 15 hours into vising Starbuck's map... with 45% done! woo.

[Reply]


Thank You Pjw
#1828 Posted by KQ [211.100.0.34], 20/11/2001 08:57 GMT , Refers to Post #1824
Though I'm new to 3d mapping, I'v already found a lot of fun. Thanks for your help!

[Reply]


Why Vis Slows Down
#1829 Posted by czg [158.38.54.26], 20/11/2001 09:13 GMT
(I think, might be a bit off.)
If you run most vis'es with the -verbose option you'll see it dumping lots of crap like "Portal 1234: MightSee 345, canSee 123." which means Portal 1234 has the posibility of seeing through 345 other portals (or leafs, it might be couting leafs instead.) , but really can only see 123.
Now this is the bit I'm uncertain about:
Either Vis goes through the bsp tree from the bottom and up, looking down towards the trunk for possible visible leafs/portals,
or it goes from the tip of the branches down towards the bottom, looking up to the sky.
Either way the first portals it goes through will only have a very small MightSee, (You can notice this with the -verbose option, it starts on MightSee 0 or 1 and goes step by step up.) and thus is easier to compute CanSee for. As it progresses, and you get up to MightSee <insert very high number here> it will ofcourse slow down. When it does happen that it stumbles onto a MightSee with a CanSee of 12 or something though, it will ofcourse go a bit quicker for that one portal, but then it's back to the slowing down again...

Codemonkeys attack!

[Reply]


Hmm
#1830 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 20/11/2001 18:16 GMT
Starbuck, you may have made a new champion for the "how long vis will take"

hope there are no more bugs in the map ;D

[Reply]


Scampie
#1831 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 20/11/2001 18:59 GMT
Nice color change btw :)

And theres always neh3m2 and kasteel...

[Reply]


Loser And Still Chump-een
#1832 Posted by Fat Controller [203.96.147.166], 20/11/2001 19:46 GMT , Refers to Post #1830
Starbuck, you may have made a new champion for the "how long vis will take"

Just remember my dear old Towne took 41 hours 28 minutes 28 seconds. J00 ain't even touched muh harfway mark, boyee...Wink

[Reply]


Scampie,
#1833 Posted by Dilvish [172.188.120.166], 20/11/2001 20:14 GMT
I'm sure Starbuck's map isn't even worth a rat's turd. Why don't you scramble it a little with,let's see... dunno, fucked-up textures, irregular brushes, sodomistic ogres, anything, it's up to you, you can only make it better anyway.

/me hides in the Chunnel expecting Starbuck's outraged scream at seeing the truth about his mapping "talents" revealed at last

[Reply]


Another Q2 Mapping Question...
#1834 Posted by necros [172.159.41.183], 20/11/2001 22:02 GMT
How the heck do you get QBSP3 to accept new textures? I always crashes with an illegal function call when I use new texs, but when I use stock Id ones, it compiles fine.

[Reply]


Er...
#1835 Posted by necros [172.159.41.183], 20/11/2001 22:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1834
*It always crashes...

[Reply]


Hehe
#1836 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.50.83], 20/11/2001 22:49 GMT , Refers to Post #1830
im sorry vising is taking a ridiculously long time as this scamp, but i do really appreciate you taking the time to help out, dude Smile

p.s. nice to see you getting touch with your feminine side btw hehe

[Reply]


...
#1837 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.50.83], 20/11/2001 23:05 GMT
I'm sure Starbuck's map isn't even worth a rat's turd. Why don't you scramble it a little with,let's see... dunno, fucked-up textures, irregular brushes, sodomistic ogres, anything, it's up to you, you can only make it better anyway.

/me hides in the Chunnel expecting Starbuck's outraged scream at seeing the truth about his mapping "talents" revealed at last


gee, thanks Dilvish, way to make me feel depressed! And thanks also for threatening to kill me in the Coagula thread!

[Reply]


Hopefully He Was Kidding,
#1838 Posted by necros [172.159.41.183], 20/11/2001 23:09 GMT , Refers to Post #1837
in anycase, let's leave this up to the judges, eh? Evil

Let's see some sportsman ship here, people!

[Reply]


Oh, And
#1839 Posted by necros [172.159.41.183], 20/11/2001 23:15 GMT , Refers to Post #1836
Don't worry about the visage. I really don't give a rat's ass how long it takes to compile, just as long as it eventually get's done. I want to see as many entries as the next guy, and I'm curious about what map could make 35000 vis portals.Smile

[Reply]


Surely...
#1840 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.128.132], 20/11/2001 23:23 GMT
I thought Aard held the VISing record of 29 days or something?

[Reply]


...
#1841 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.50.83], 20/11/2001 23:34 GMT , Refers to Post #1839
lol..im curious why my map has 35000 vis portals too =)
Oh and its good to hear you think that way

[Reply]


*sigh*
#1842 Posted by necros [172.153.101.99], 21/11/2001 00:55 GMT
Anyone have any tips when converting Q1 textures to Q2? Quake2's palette is so different from Quake's that the textures look absolutly horrendous.

Can I maybe put quake's palette in quake2?

[Reply]


...
#1843 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 21/11/2001 03:51 GMT
this is fun... =) the vis seems to be slowing down! =) THE PROGRESS COUNTER LIES!

[Reply]


Doh!
#1844 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 21/11/2001 04:58 GMT
i just quickly peeked at your map again while vising... and there is a sortof large error... you know the area where you have to kill the orges before going to get the gold key? the door from the floor below opens when you run over where it is and it pokes thru the floor about 32 pixels :|

i'll leave vis going tonight, but if you want to fix the error, i'll stop and restart (if I do, would you mind me looking thru the .map and seeing if I can help the vis time?)

[Reply]


Erm...
#1845 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 21/11/2001 05:50 GMT , Refers to Post #1844
nm... BSOD killed the vis... :(

fix the error. i'm going to search for a copy of netvis (network capable vis utility :D)

we'll get your map compiled! even if it takes forever.

[Reply]


Don't Worry, Starbie
#1846 Posted by Dilvish [172.190.195.87], 21/11/2001 06:53 GMT
I'm only joking.

[Reply]


Dilvish
#1847 Posted by XeNoN [212.219.57.59], 21/11/2001 13:36 GMT
Scared of being beaten? Yay!


And Fatty, take A hike... I'm sure I mentioned that neh3m3 took over 8 days, and Aard's "Kasteel" went on for 5 weeks (on a low PC mind...) So j00 aint even gotten anywhere yet! Smile

nm... my personal record is only 9 hours.

[Reply]


D'oh!
#1848 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.154.159], 21/11/2001 17:33 GMT
the vis got killed? *cries*
in that case i'll definately fix the bug...
hope there arent any more though :)
maybe i should get someone to check it through as well
Do you still want the .map?
(or the .rmf, but if i remember correctly you use qer?)

[Reply]


...
#1849 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.154.159], 21/11/2001 17:33 GMT
my god, that last post was incoherent

[Reply]


If You Want To Try Yet
#1850 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.202.185], 21/11/2001 18:08 GMT , Refers to Post #1843
another version of RVis that makes a serious attempt to display useful progress information without delaying the overall process, take a look at my pathetic homepage at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k

The generated BSP output is of course exactly the same as the original RVis.

[Reply]


Xenon
#1851 Posted by Dilvish [172.190.17.57], 21/11/2001 18:20 GMT
I'd rather appear to be the yellow-streak-down-the-back guy than the bad guy, that's all :)))

[Reply]


.
#1852 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 21/11/2001 19:11 GMT , Refers to Post #1848
i use WC so rmf will be good. i bet a little magic and tender lovin can reduce at LEAST 1 portal =)

[Reply]


Fatty
#1853 Posted by Lunaran [64.109.168.131], 21/11/2001 23:06 GMT
You're not allowed to claim any vis time records; your computer runs on peat, aye? :)

[Reply]


Speedy Is Still Working On A Title
#1854 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.185], 22/11/2001 02:39 GMT
ok kids. Me to the rescue
I`ll youse my majik to vis your map in no time. A dash of speed, you know..

But no guarantee - if the map has errors I wont be able to help.
Send me the .map/wad.
No joke

[Reply]


RTCW Map Editing
#1855 Posted by Gandhi [194.18.231.22], 22/11/2001 10:10 GMT
anyone know what tools i need to make rtcw maps (i'm guessing qeradiant). since i skipped the whole q3 thing i'm a bit lagged :) any good pages that cover this?

[Reply]


Scampie!
#1856 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.11.205], 22/11/2001 20:04 GMT
i cant find you! come on terrafusion so i can send you all the shit!

[Reply]


For The Record...
#1857 Posted by O-face [24.51.105.241], 22/11/2001 21:18 GMT
Aard's Kasteel map took 5 weeks to vis on an UltraSparc server (fast, expensive 64bit UNIX server made by Sun). And that was for a level 2 vis. I think he holds the record, for now.

[Reply]


I... I... I...
#1858 Posted by Tronyn. [24.66.247.146], 23/11/2001 03:35 GMT
help me
jesus oh my god

if i can ever put together a coherent description of the size-induced problems with nj1 and nj2, i will post it here. these are the largest maps i have ever made, and they, have problems! haha!

how the HELL does czg manage to make such big maps.

[Reply]


Who Needs A Title Anyway
#1859 Posted by Edgecrusher [67.25.165.54], 23/11/2001 04:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1858
hehe, this map is goodfun

[Reply]


Well...
#1860 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 23/11/2001 20:25 GMT
a manged to chop about 3000 portals just by cleaning up the brushwork and chopping the large pile of crates in the gold key room (complete with vis killing little pixel wide gaps everywhere). few othe minor things as well... (Starbuck, we're going to have a chat about clean mapping ;)

but I can't make it perfect... there are still loads of portals and the vis is going to still take a week i'd say. there are just a bunch of portals that take forever for vis to optimise... woowoo fun.

Starbuck, I suggest you just light the current .bsp I have and submit it to the contest... then we can release the vis'd map when it's done.

[Reply]


Damn You SB
#1861 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.26], 24/11/2001 01:52 GMT
if you want a map to be vised as soon as I get it just give a d/l location with a map and wad (much better than mailing it to me).

[Reply]


Could Use Some Help
#1862 Posted by necros [172.162.22.233], 24/11/2001 01:55 GMT
with beta testing that Q2DM I was flaunting around in the screen shot thread...
Email me for a link.

[Reply]


AUGH
#1863 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 25/11/2001 05:48 GMT
i give up. fucking computer doesn't like long vis's.

[Reply]


Duke 3D
#1864 Posted by Joey j. [202.161.127.18], 26/11/2001 13:09 GMT
Duke3d's Build Can do all that stuff...


yes....

DUKE3D!!

[Reply]


Duke3d
#1865 Posted by DaZ [213.122.61.58], 26/11/2001 16:36 GMT
can you download that anywhere, no not warez, but legally?

[Reply]


Most Likely
#1866 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 26/11/2001 17:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1855
seeing as how RTCW was recently released, there aren't any publicly available editing tools. most essential piece would be the entity .def file for wolf as opposed to q3:a. they might have some unique features added to q3r that are game specific, as well. there's also the possibility of custom texture format exporters for photoshop... and if they're like the guys at Ritual they might have added new shader functions.

[Reply]


Duke3d
#1867 Posted by Shadowdane [208.203.4.100], 26/11/2001 20:11 GMT , Refers to Post #1865
i found a copy of that at CompUSA in the bargin bin for $2.95! :)

only problem is that I cant seem to get the sound to work on WinXP. oh well.. any windows ports of Duke3d out???

[Reply]


D'oh!
#1868 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 26/11/2001 20:54 GMT
same thing happened when i tried to load up duke 2 on my new machine. stupid sblive and it's lack of DOS drivers. kinda wish i had kept my A3D card.

[Reply]


Wolf Tex
#1869 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 26/11/2001 22:23 GMT
No funny formats there.

If I remember right grey matter used their own version of radiant for wolf and hopefully that will be released otherwise there'll probably be some sort of wolf suport for gtkrad.

Let's just hope we get the ability to make mods and script docs and any tools that might be needed.

[Reply]


Ok
#1870 Posted by Starbuck [213.122.79.164], 27/11/2001 17:50 GMT
scampie could you email me your rmf and ill light it and leave it

[Reply]


RtCW
#1871 Posted by infidel [217.10.132.19], 29/11/2001 17:12 GMT , Refers to Post #1855
There's a link on the QMap front page - or it may have been Bluesnews - can't remember. But there's a kit and manual detailing how to use GtkRadiant to make RtCW maps.

[Reply]


Mapconv.exe
#1872 Posted by necros [172.136.75.6], 01/12/2001 22:53 GMT
Ok. I write this:
mapconv -toq1 ne1_q2dm.map ne1_q1dm.map

and mapconv spits out this:
------ Map File Convert ------
Version 1.2.2 Build 38
written by Kristian Duske
Email: k.duske@gmx.net
WWW: http://www.planetquake.com/rem
------------------------------
Using mode Q2 > Q1
Parsing File ne1_q2dm.map ...

Then it justs sits there... forever. Is there certain lines that aren't accepted by mapconv.exe?

[Reply]


Hmm, Weird
#1873 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 02/12/2001 01:52 GMT
I dunno really, I've only used it for maps that have been intended for quake all the time so I don't have any experience converting actual q2 maps (I'd guess that's what you're doing).

[Reply]


Ah, Got It.
#1874 Posted by necros [172.168.101.84], 02/12/2001 02:52 GMT
It appears Quark is just stupid when it exports .map files. I imported it into QER and it worked out fine. Dunno why, but if SleepwalkR reads this, he may want to take that down as some kind of silly bug incompatibility...

[Reply]


Hi
#1875 Posted by inertia_ [24.164.64.185], 02/12/2001 23:15 GMT
boo

[Reply]


3d Studio To Quake Map
#1876 Posted by jonny seed [203.29.47.1], 04/12/2001 03:45 GMT
hi everyone..

could anyone tell me if there is a plug-in for 3d studio max. that converts a map made in 3ds to quake 3..

any help would be great..

regards
Jonny.

[Reply]


Ok
#1877 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 04/12/2001 05:14 GMT
I feel stupid enough for having to ask this, but I've never done much MP mapping... in Q2, how do I make the deathmatch spawn points NOT have that little spawn platform?

[Reply]


IIRC
#1878 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.109.92], 04/12/2001 06:34 GMT , Refers to Post #1877
The trick is to sink them a small amount into the floor (8 units?) so the platform's hidden.

[Reply]


Aah
#1879 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 04/12/2001 07:09 GMT
thanks fat

[Reply]


3DS To Bsp
#1880 Posted by infidel [217.10.132.19], 04/12/2001 16:24 GMT , Refers to Post #1876
Dunno, but G MAX (which is either coming out soon, or is already available - free) can output as a .bsp, I think. It's one of the examples they're using to sell G MAX to developers as a development tool, so they'll support it in their products.

As for when this will be available (if G MAX isn't yet), I don't know. It may never be - they may just be using it for demonstration purposes. But it is possible.

I hope that made sense - I swear my grasp of the English language is declining by the day...

[Reply]


Q3Radiant .def Files
#1881 Posted by infidel [217.10.132.19], 04/12/2001 16:25 GMT
I need to get my hands on the .def files for Team Arena and CCTF (Threewave CTF). Anyone know where I might get hold of them?

Cheers,
infidel

[Reply]


Anyone Want To Fix A Leak For Me?
#1882 Posted by Asriel [203.79.80.3], 04/12/2001 23:16 GMT
really
please?

[Reply]


Quake 1 Map
#1883 Posted by simon [210.74.190.241], 05/12/2001 02:39 GMT
i want to know how to install the map file to my QUAKE directory. i know the file is .bsp. but after copy it . noting found newly.
pls .tell me why.

[Reply]


#1884 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 05/12/2001 03:22 GMT , Refers to Post #1883
You need to put the .bsp in the quake/id1/maps directory. Then you can run it in quake by typing 'map [filename of the map without the .bsp extension]'

[Reply]


Bots + Q2 + DM
#1885 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 05/12/2001 20:17 GMT
Anybody wanna give me some info, point me in the direction of some downloads/tutorials? It seems Eraser bots are the best, at least the only name I've heard, but I've been unable to find a download(the frag.com site says it's down). I'd also like to find some tuts on how to set up .aas files and what not. I'm completely new to this whole DM thing, so I could use the help of anyone.

Thanks.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1886 Posted by Speedy [213.172.3.88], 06/12/2001 01:52 GMT
http://www.botepidemic.com/gladiator - prolly the best q2 bot (by Mr Elusive).
Still it sucks, the hardest one on the top skill is easy to beat with 50 -5 score on q2dm1.

Search botepidemic for other bots.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1887 Posted by DeFrag [66.152.70.204], 06/12/2001 03:05 GMT
I've got both bots avail for download from my FTP. ICQ meh & I'll hook yup. #45772874 between 1800-0000 PST

[Reply]


Tutorial
#1888 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.52], 06/12/2001 03:55 GMT
check this tutorial on optimising your brushwork. Its for q2, but alot of things are same for all q1/q2 based games.
Check it Starbuck ;)

[Reply]


Good Day Sir
#1889 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 06/12/2001 04:46 GMT
could anyone tell me why Quake insists on booting me out like a rejected whore when I attempt to run my map? That is, it says, 'Error: bad surface extents.'

I finally get this map to compile, and this is the thanks I get!!!

[Reply]


Tronyn Sans [ ]...
#1890 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 06/12/2001 06:57 GMT
Does this exchange between Jimbo and Tyrann help?

JIMBO:
Can ANYONE HELP?
Using "iklite.exe" to lite a q1 map
and I'm getting the following error...

*** BEGIN LIGHT ***

76 entities read
Starting lighting thread.
Lighting 7213 faces total.

*** Error ***
Bad surface extents

What does "Bad surface extents" mean?
(I'm using txqbsp for the main compile
and rvis for the vis.)

TYRANN:
It usually means there's some kind of invalid brush in your map. If not then some particular part of your map is confusing QBSP.

Try to either:
1. find and eliminate the problem brush(es) 2. perhaps just a diferent QBSP will help (but probably not).

JIMBO:
I tried another qbsp(qbsp256) but got lot's of little gaps in the walls I'm thinkin it's the floating point textures so I've decided to:
<br>
1. find and eliminate the problem brush(es)
<br>
By the simple expedient of restoring from backup and rebuilding that section of the map
(`bout 200 brushes).

[Reply]


Q2 Plats
#1891 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 06/12/2001 07:48 GMT
Anybody ever run into really wierd stuff happening with their plats in Q2? Right now I've got one plat that does some very strange things. First, it does this thing where, before going up, it dips down, then goes up. And then before going down, it jumps up, and then goes down. Second, it will slow down to a crawl about 32 units before it hits the height it should be at and creep up, taking up to 5 or 6 seconds just to get the other 32 units. Does anybody know what causes this and how to fix it?

[Reply]


I Really Don't Know
#1892 Posted by czg [158.38.54.63], 06/12/2001 12:54 GMT
But I think Q2 plats have an "acceleration" field or something like that. Knowing this will do you just about nothing good.

[Reply]


My Guess
#1893 Posted by kanaeda [207.67.87.176], 06/12/2001 15:16 GMT , Refers to Post #1891
would be what czg mentioned. the acceleration key field is really whacky. any time i've changed it very far from the default setting strange things started to happen. try setting the acceleration back to 400 (the default value) if it isn't already. if it is, i'd say ungroup the entity and recreate it.

[Reply]


Bad Textures
#1894 Posted by Jimbo [164.106.40.96], 06/12/2001 16:32 GMT , Refers to Post #1889
Try opening your wad in texmex or whatever and saving it again.

then recompile the map.

That works sometimes when i get that error.

-Jimbo

[Reply]


Bad Surface Extents
#1895 Posted by GlassMan [195.184.253.85], 06/12/2001 16:59 GMT , Refers to Post #1889
I think I've had that when theres been a sky brush overlapping water or lava or something. Check out those kind of brushes.

[Reply]


If You Want To Try Yet
#1896 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.205.202], 06/12/2001 17:43 GMT , Refers to Post #1889
another pair of QBSP compilers, take a look
here.

[Reply]


Thanks Guys
#1897 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 06/12/2001 17:59 GMT
I'll try those. Actually I wasn't using any textures at all, since QBSP256C is the only compiler that I have that will compile this map, and it won't support multiple texture wads (either that or something similar, but not just the length of the texture entry specified in the .map). so instead of constructing one wad of all the textures from all the wads I used, I decided to just to compile it without textures, just to compile it at all!

so, bizarre brushes, textures, or liquids/skies: the usual suspects :)

[Reply]


Different Map This Time:
#1898 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 06/12/2001 19:21 GMT
so I get soe1m1 from Xenon, it has a few leaks. so I fix the leaks. so then it says "canonical face: degenerate" or somehing like that, why? BECAUSE TH EMA{ HAS NO LEAKS>!!! if it has leaks it will bsp, if it does not IT WILL NOT! WTF IS THIE SHITTASRIHATEIPHOPHOSRGP!!!!R#QW

[Reply]


WHY
#1899 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 06/12/2001 19:23 GMT
WHY must EVERY SINGLE MAP I make have the gayest most inexplicable errors! I swear of everyone here, I have gotten the most gay, ridiculous, technically IMPOSSIBLE errors.

[Reply]


WHY
#1900 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 06/12/2001 19:26 GMT
WHY must EVERY SINGLE MAP I make have the gayest most inexplicable errors! I swear of everyone here, I have gotten the most gay, ridiculous, technically IMPOSSIBLE errors.

[Reply]


Hehehe
#1901 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 06/12/2001 19:44 GMT
I had that error in soe2m1 originally. Maybe some evil force crossed them over before i emailed them....


Smile

[Reply]


Thanks..
#1902 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 06/12/2001 21:37 GMT
czg and kanaeda.

[Reply]


From The Brains Trust...
#1903 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 07/12/2001 00:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1898
METLSLIME:
"CanonicalVector: Degenerate"
it's been a while since i looked, but i seem to recall that in the code, after this error, carmack left a comment that said something like "// this should never happen"

FAT CONTROLLER:
Well, It Does
I had this lovely error crop up when Kona was on the OUM crew and I was inserting some door notches into the ends of a twisty corridor. On undoing this work, things went back to normal.

So I'd say there's a very complex lump of brushwork somewhere that QBSP can't make head or tail of, and you'll either have to rethink or simplify whatever brought it on.

GRAHF:
The nearest I can tell, from what the quakelab says and my own experience, is that the CanonicalVector error appears as a result of large scale clipping operations, either in the editor or csg-ing by qbsp. Tough to say for sure though.

CZG:
I have no idea what the error actually means, but I think you should say yourself lucky as it didn't crash the compile as it usually does to me.
Anyway, the best way to get rid of them is to try to compile only half of the map, and see if the error appears then. If it doesn't you'll know that it is in the other half of the map, and you can then compile half of that, and half of that again, until you've narrowed it down to as few brushes as you like. It is most likely some overly complex brush, and when you find the cause of the problem, you'll just have to either delete it and maybe rebuild it, or just try to replace it with something else that works... Sorry I can't be anymore accurate, but I really don't know what this error really means. Maybe some of the engine wizards hanging out here knows? <nudge nudge>

[Reply]


I Think..
#1904 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 07/12/2001 03:38 GMT
it's simply a result of the universe conspiring against me.

but at least I'm getting somewhere with my maps, kind of...

[Reply]


CanonicalVector: Degenerate
#1905 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 07/12/2001 04:27 GMT
Here is what happens in the CanonicalVector() function in tjunc.c: A vector is first normalized (scaled so that its length equals 1.) Then, each component is tested to see if it is longer than 0.001. If the x, y, and z values are all less than 0.001 in length, the vector cannot have length equal to 1, and the vector is degenerate. How could this happen to a normalized vector? Well, if the vector was '0,0,0' to begin with, it would still be zero length after being normalized.

This whole process occurs in the tjunc calculations, once per edge for each face. This vector is the difference between two consecutive points on a face, i.e. two points that would define an edge. So, by my limited understanding of BSP, my guess is this error occurs when one edge of a face has length = zero. Does this sound right, for those of you who have actually had this bug and fixed it?

[Reply]


Re: CanonicalVector: Degenerate
#1906 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.112], 07/12/2001 05:46 GMT , Refers to Post #1905
Yes, that's the correct technical description. If you get the bug though, it's caused by either:

a) Your editor made an invalid brush
b) Floating point rounding error ( => random error hell )

Best course of action is to track down the offending brush(es) and start deleting. Brushes where more than three edges meet at a point (e.g. pyramid or cone shapes) are the most likely culpurit.

[Reply]


I Recently Had This Error
#1907 Posted by czg [158.38.54.100], 07/12/2001 16:41 GMT
During the compile of czg05, and it turned out to be one single brush. The brush wasn't very complex at all really, just a wedge that in all forms possible was legit. (Yup, it was legit. I did the patented 'WC clip across the middle of it to see if it deforms' test.) The area it was placed in too wasn't really much to talk about. It was that outdoor area where you emerge up from the underground cave with the slimeflow.
Anyway. Found brush through method of elimination. The error only occured when the map didn't leak, so I boxed in the entire map for test compiles. Deleted brush and replaced it with a similar one. It worked. Too bad the rest of the map sucked like flaming hairy goat feces though.

Sucky sucky.

[Reply]


More Errors :/
#1908 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 07/12/2001 18:29 GMT
Can some remind me on the cause and solution of the "Too many portals on a Leaf" error, please?

[Reply]


Uh
#1909 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 07/12/2001 23:04 GMT
well if CZG05 sucked, then that hardly says much for every other map ever released!

Anyway I think I can figure out that vector error, especially thanks to metlslime's description.

[Reply]


Btw
#1910 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.154], 08/12/2001 02:35 GMT
treeqbs doesnt perform t-junk calculation

[Reply]


Btw
#1911 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 08/12/2001 03:14 GMT
but tjunc calculations are good. so you should enable them even if you use treeqbsp, by using -tjunc. Why are tjunc calculations good? two reasons. First, tjunctions can cause 'cracks' between polygons which can ruin the feeling of solidity in a level. Second, for you wankers who use GLquake instead of the glorious winquake, tjunctions will make your underwater warping polygons warp apart from each other, causing hunge HOM gaps and serious overlapping polys. Check out the underwater area in The Crawling Chaos for an example of this.

[Reply]


P.S.
#1912 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 08/12/2001 03:15 GMT
in case it wasn't obvious, tjunc calculations are the process that eliminates tjunctions.

[Reply]


Yeah
#1913 Posted by Speedy [213.172.9.122], 08/12/2001 03:56 GMT
Iv noticed how treeqbsp produces a map with more sparkles.

btw, how do you manage to run winquake not crashing ?

[Reply]


Speed
#1914 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 08/12/2001 04:34 GMT
i use win2k. the only problem i get is my windows color scheme gets a bit corrupted when i exit winquake -- start button is the wrong color, mirc windows are too dark, and toolbars in some apps have messed up colors.

[Reply]


Oh Mh God
#1915 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 08/12/2001 21:35 GMT
Oh my god, this is so gay!

WC for some reason decided to handle all entities not in my FGD in this one map, as solid entities. So when I run the map it teleports all of them to the origin and they (being NON solid entities) just sit there, stuck together. is that not the gayest thing you've ever heard?

How would I fix this?

lol, there will be a lot of posts by me here in the next few weeks...

[Reply]


Sweet
#1916 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 08/12/2001 22:01 GMT
I defeated it by reverting to an old map which had the entities, while they were still entites, and systematically getting all of them and all of the solids in the new maps and replacing them.

that was very gay sir.

[Reply]


Sometimes
#1917 Posted by Asriel [203.79.80.62], 08/12/2001 23:06 GMT
When i create a brush in WC it doesn't have a top, so I can see inside it. Kinda weird, but this fux0rs qbsp im sure.

I think its to do with how you create your brush, like -64,-64,64 for example. Having made it 'backwards' perhaps.

[Reply]


#1918 Posted by necros [172.173.37.91], 08/12/2001 23:13 GMT , Refers to Post #1915
's why I never use WC, dear Tronyn. Wink
Your probably not interrested in quark, but QER is really cool, and I'd actually map with it if I knew how.

[Reply]


Wc 3.3 Maybe ?
#1919 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.177], 09/12/2001 01:54 GMT
try it

[Reply]


Thanks For The
#1920 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.203.158], 09/12/2001 02:54 GMT , Refers to Post #1911
great info. Now it's rather obvious why -tjunc is A Good Thing. I've tried it in a couple of maps and it really makes a difference; the sparkle reduction is significant.

I wonder why Greg Lewis in TreeQBSP changed the defaults to off. Are there any apparent performance/size/whatnot penalties for always having it on ?

[Reply]


Tjunk
#1921 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.47], 09/12/2001 03:13 GMT
It can create more face/edge splits. And it usually does. It takes more time. It can cause bugs. But two first are minor downsides

[Reply]


So Gay...
#1922 Posted by H-Hour [65.101.212.45], 09/12/2001 09:03 GMT
wc certainly loves the cock. mouthfulls of it.

[Reply]


Censored
#1923 Posted by czg [158.38.54.100], 09/12/2001 14:10 GMT
Post censored by moderator (wrath).

[Reply]


Hmm
#1924 Posted by czg [158.38.54.100], 09/12/2001 14:12 GMT
Bah! Forgot a closing bold tag. Someone please censor or delete that above post.

Is it really so hard to edit your fgd file? It's goddamned simple I tell you!



@PointClass base(Targetname, Appearflags) color(0 0 255) size(-32 -32 0,32 32 64) info_entity : "Your entity Name" = [

anInt(integer) : "Your int here" : 8
aString(string) : "Your String here"
aChoice(choices) : "Pick one" : 0 =
[
1:"Evil"
2:"Good"
3:"1337"
5676:"Arse"
]
spawnflags(Flags) =
[
256 : "Not in Easy" : 0
512 : "Not in Normal" : 0
1024 : "Not in Hard" : 0
2048 : "Not in Deathmatch" : 0
]

]


Where:

The @ indicates a new entry

PointClass, SolidClass or BaseClass indicates what kind of entity: point, solid or a base entity that won't show up in your entity list but that many other entities share fields with. You can refer to a BaseClass in the next bit which is:

base(Other fgd entries) (Optional, defaults to none.) is a comma separated list of other entries in the fgd. Here you can put the name of baseclasses or any other class whatsoever. The entity specified in the entry you use the base() in will inherit the same fields from those entities. Common bases are Appearflags, (which are the spawnflags that set skill settings,) Target & Targetname, Light and Trigger.

color(RRR GGG BBB) (Optional, defaults to some purpleish color.) is pretty self explanatory. Only applicable for pointEnts unless you don't use 3d textured preview.

size(-x -y -z, x y z) (Optional, defaults to (-8 -8 -8,8 8 8).) is the max/min corners of the bounding box of the entity. Only applicable for PointEnts. Many of these in the original Quake fgd are very, VERY wrong.

The next bit is the actual classname of the entity. Followed by a colon and...

The "Common" name of the entity, or a short description of it. (Optional, defaults to none.) Seems like it was originally planned for WC to browse entities by such common names, but thank god it never happened. I have been dumbed down enough by the "common" field names already.

That finishes the Header of the entry, then comes a = and we indicate the start of the main entity info with a [

anInt(integer) means that the key value "anInt" is an integer.
: "Your int here" is the text string that will appear in place of "anInt" in WC's entity dialog. Seems to be optional.
: <some integer> is an optional default value for this key. And here comes some trickery. If you leave out this bit, WC won't write that key/value pair to the .map file. If you put it in, but you give a wrong value compared to what's default in the qc, and you don't make any changes to it in your map, WC won't write it to your .map file then either because it assumes it should be at default. However, since the QC default is different from the fgd default, you'll get results that can deviate a lot from what you had intended. This applies to all default values you specify in the fgd. You'll have to do some thinking for yourself to figure out what is best for your fgd. As an example; The original fgd files that come with WC has the func_button default speed set to 100. In the Qc it is 40. This means that if you want a button that really has a speed of 100, WC will think it is the default value, won't write it to the .map, and you'll end up with a button that has a speed of 40. Yeah it sucks.

aString(string) : "Your String here" means that the aString key/value pair is a text string. Here though, you can't set a default, WC won't allow it.

aChoice(choices) : "Pick one" : 0 indicates that the aChoice key/value pair is a list of choices of various things, each choice corresponding to a given integer value. The default value is optional. This must be followed by a = and then we start a new block with a [ and then follows the list of choises as this:

1:"Choice #1"
2:"Choice #2"
Which I think is pretty self-explanatory. If you choose Choice #1 from the drop down menu you get in WC it will set this key to 1. Choice #2 sets it to 2 and so on. The integer values doesn't have to be in order, and will appear in the drop down menu in the order they are listed in the fgd. They don't have to be all 1 2 3 4 5 ... and so on, they can easily be 1254 12 -85 9 -5556 or any wild combination of values. Note that it can take negative values. This is often used for various func_ entities that have a "wait" field that sets when it should reset. You put in something like this:
wait(choices) : "Wait before return" : 4=
[
-1 : "Never return"
]

...which will make the entity have a "wait" field that defaults to 4 (that's what it says in the qc), but has a dropdown menu that allows you to set -1 as a "Never return" value. Easy as that. Close the list with a ].

spawnflags(Flags) The (Flags) datatype is reserved for the spawnflags key/value pair only and describes what spawnflags are optional on the Flags tab in the WC entity dialog. The setup is identical to the (choices) datatayp as you can see, only difference is that you can't set a "common" name for this key/value because it will appear on a tab of it's own, and you can't set a default value directly in the header there. However, in the choices list, you may specify if the given flag defaults to on (1) or off (0) after each item in the list.

These two you won't be needing too often:
targetname(target_source) : "Name" and target(target_destination) : "Target"
These are in most fgd files only used in the two baseClasses Target and Targetname. As you probably understand these two are used for target and targetname fields, and I won't go anymore into those.


There. These are all the datatypes available to you in a fgd entry. Use them as much as you like. (Except for the Flags type.) Now close the entry with a final ] and you're all set.

That is how easy it is to edit a fgd.

Now go make some of your own and stop whining about WC sucking cock.

[Reply]


Thank You Wrath
#1925 Posted by czg [158.38.54.100], 09/12/2001 14:35 GMT
[NT]

[Reply]


Or Just Don't Use WC...
#1926 Posted by necros [172.130.74.160], 09/12/2001 15:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1924
hehehe...

[Reply]


Yeah
#1927 Posted by Vigil [193.229.255.17], 09/12/2001 16:50 GMT
Obviously WC is very evil and causes stuff like forgetting to close the bold tag. It was all WC's fault, bad editor!

[Reply]


Damn You Vigil
#1928 Posted by czg [158.38.54.78], 09/12/2001 18:07 GMT
May a thousand gay horses haunt your dreams for eternity.

[Reply]


Thanks Czg
#1929 Posted by Vigil [193.229.255.17], 09/12/2001 19:32 GMT
Looks like my nightmares of Shambler's naked mum are over.

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1930 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.104], 09/12/2001 19:58 GMT , Refers to Post #1929
OR ARE THEY!!!

[Reply]


Damn
#1931 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.104], 09/12/2001 19:58 GMT
I suck.

[Reply]


Questions, Questions
#1932 Posted by iART [208.181.205.12], 10/12/2001 00:03 GMT
Has anyone successfully created lit textures in Quake using DuLight?

Does it require a special progs.dat? If so... fuck it... I hate maps requiring a modified progs.dat.

[Reply]


Wow You Guys
#1933 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 10/12/2001 00:42 GMT
lol

[Reply]


And Btw Necros..
#1934 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 10/12/2001 00:45 GMT
I do have Quark, I use it for textures, debugging, sometimes model editing, ect. overall a very useful tool.

WC doesn't suck, it just has some gay tendencies, but at this point in my 'mapping career' I'm not going to go about switching editors, given that I'm quitting in a few weeks. Additionally, if I was switching editors, I would just go to a new game/engine, like Unreal. Wait... I already did that (Rune maps with my final update.. you'll see).

[Reply]


[Tronyn]
#1935 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.110], 10/12/2001 00:56 GMT
`cmon dont say fucking `Quit`
just have a break and come back
cause if you say quit you establish a mental barrier and you might want to come back to mapping someday, so dont say quit - it`s not a job or a slag you got sick of.

[Reply]


Tronyn,
#1936 Posted by necros [172.166.156.225], 10/12/2001 01:10 GMT
I'm with speedy on that one. Quitting sounds so final. Mapping is a hobby, and shouldn't be regarded as the same thing as a job.

I also considered changing editors to QER, but there is just so much to learn, and I don't think i'd enjoy the process... maybe if I start to map for Q3, I might try Q3Radiant or something, but I'm content with quark for now. (besides, I use the 'good' version, 4.07. I don't understand v6 and up...)

[Reply]


Well, That Is,
#1937 Posted by necros [172.166.156.225], 10/12/2001 01:10 GMT
unless you really do map for a living...

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FGD Update:
#1938 Posted by czg [158.38.54.78], 10/12/2001 08:11 GMT
I forgot one datatype which you might find in handy:

_color(color1) : "RGB Color" This makes a standard windows colorpicker appear in the entity dialog, and selects colors as 0-255 RGB values.
Though I haven't found it used anywhere, I think there might be a color2 datatype too, that gives color values as relative (0.0-1.0). I have no proof on this one though, so I might be a bit wrong. But the color1 one works for sure...

[Reply]


Oh Yeah, One More Thing.
#1939 Posted by czg [158.38.54.78], 10/12/2001 08:17 GMT , Refers to Post #1938
Thing is with FGDs, you'll rarely want to use the integer datatype really, because qc only uses floats, and if you try to put in say 3.24 in an integer field in worldcraft, it will round it off to the nearest int. Therefore I have found it smartest to just use string for all fields, since they're all stored as strings in the .map file anyway...

[Reply]


Worldcraft 3.3 Problem
#1940 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.19], 10/12/2001 12:46 GMT
Is there a texture brightness control in WC3.3? I can't find it, and all my texes are appearing *way* too dark. Which is a shame, because in all other respects wc3.3 seems a fine piece of software (certainly an improvement over wc1.6!).

[Reply]


Iain...
#1941 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.19], 10/12/2001 12:47 GMT
Haven't all your maps released to date used custom progs? Just a thought, y'know...

[Reply]


Check This Shit Out:
#1942 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 10/12/2001 22:40 GMT
On yet another map, Quake crashes thus:

Error: SZ_GetSpace: 8126 is > full buffer size

C:\quake>

Any ideas?

BTW, thanks CZG for the fgd info... basically I just needed to specify a bunch of entites as point-entities.

[Reply]


Tronyn, It's Either:
#1943 Posted by necros [172.173.29.104], 10/12/2001 23:06 GMT , Refers to Post #1942
1. Too many entities (I was getting this error a lot in n3sp04, until I removed the 50 trigger_teleports and put in func_spawns instead).

2. Too many textures in the bsp. I think so, anyway, since some compilers let you put more than 2mb of textures in a bsp, but quake won't let you, and crashes... (I think.. I got this error a bit in n3sp02 way back in the day, before I got rid of some of the textures).

[Reply]


Sweet
#1944 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 10/12/2001 23:28 GMT
must be entities, as this map is very giant but has a very limited texture set. thanks.

back to the grind... I mean hobby :)

[Reply]


Damn...
#1945 Posted by iART [208.181.205.6], 11/12/2001 07:17 GMT
...you caught me on that one Lieutenant. Yes, but I would like my next release to be for the "regular old quake"....
... + TQ's func_snow.
Radiant lighting would be SOOOOOO cool if it didn't need a modified progs.

Soooo? Can anyone tell me if it does?

Test, test... is this thing on??

[Reply]


Iain
#1946 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 11/12/2001 10:02 GMT

i don't see how radiosity lighting would need a modified progs.dat ... either it produces normal lightmaps that quake can read, or it produces some sort of alternate bsp format or external .lit file which would require a new engine, not a new progs.dat.

[Reply]


Eh?
#1947 Posted by DaZ [213.122.20.157], 11/12/2001 13:35 GMT
Iain, my latest dm - crdm2 - mechanical tears used radiosity lighting and works just fine in glquake, software etc...

dunno why your having such problems ?

[Reply]


Hmmm...
#1948 Posted by iART [208.181.205.7], 12/12/2001 06:56 GMT
q1rad.zip came with:

lights.rad
progs.dat
q1rad.exe
radtest.bsp
radtest.lit
& a readme.txt

maybe i should read that again...

[Reply]


Hey DaZ
#1949 Posted by iART [208.181.205.7], 12/12/2001 06:59 GMT
This readme says something about a Halflife tutorial. Is that what you used to figure out radiant lighting?

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Hey IART
#1950 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.69.131], 12/12/2001 07:40 GMT
Try this tut I wrote.

It's for the original Q1RAD, but same diff.

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I Used
#1951 Posted by DaZ [213.122.27.146], 12/12/2001 10:01 GMT
fatty's said tutorial... Smile

[Reply]


Quake1 Mapping
#1952 Posted by protomor [65.9.36.69], 13/12/2001 04:06 GMT
Im trying to map for quake and I already know how to use worldcraft for CS maps. The compile tools I use now for quake in worldcraft 3.3 give me parse errors when i put more than 7 things in the maps. How do you guys map. like what programs. or do you know how to fix my problems?

[Reply]


Protomor
#1953 Posted by DaZ [213.122.12.203], 13/12/2001 20:27 GMT
Worldcraft 3.3 only supports HL maps, you need WC 1.6 to make quake maps. Someone here will know where to download it, but I am not sure...

I think that will fix all your problems.

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Wc1.6
#1954 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 13/12/2001 20:53 GMT
Bling bling!

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Bah
#1955 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.191], 13/12/2001 23:28 GMT
Worldcraft 3.3 is soooooooo much nicer than 1.6 - any of you q1 whores still stuck on 1.6, I suggest you grab Riot's Qonverge tools and go get Wc3.3.

[Reply]


LTH: Do You Have EYES?
#1956 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 13/12/2001 23:53 GMT
The compile tools I use now for quake in worldcraft 3.3 give me parse errors when i put more than 7 things in the maps.

[Reply]


Bah
#1957 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.191], 13/12/2001 23:54 GMT
What are these 'eyes' of which you speak?

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Where
#1958 Posted by Seth [158.152.186.247], 14/12/2001 00:45 GMT , Refers to Post #1955
can i get ver3.3 from?

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Hmmm
#1959 Posted by Speedy [213.172.2.19], 14/12/2001 03:19 GMT
Iv made a pretty room in 3,3 and put in some monsters for test - it worked fine.

Maybe guy puts wrong things there (like purely HLis stuff) ? :)

[Reply]


S.dkfgblsdkbg
#1960 Posted by The Lieutenant [144.32.177.195], 14/12/2001 12:10 GMT
Seth: voodoofiles.com has a download of it I think. Go search on Google or something.

[Reply]


Cheerzor Dood
#1961 Posted by Seth [158.152.186.247], 15/12/2001 00:24 GMT , Refers to Post #1960
nt

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Brush Counts In Q1.
#1962 Posted by necros [172.174.192.191], 15/12/2001 19:09 GMT
How many brushes for a q1sp would be considered 'alot'?

And what's the maximum number of brushes that QBSP can handle?

The reason I'm asking, is that I've got 2000 brushes, and not even half done my map yet...

[Reply]


Well
#1963 Posted by NotoriousRay [4.17.66.107], 15/12/2001 19:15 GMT
mine is over 3000 atm, pretty final, it compiles leak and error free fine

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Let's See,,,
#1964 Posted by Vigil [193.229.6.165], 16/12/2001 09:39 GMT , Refers to Post #1962
The original QBSP can handle 4096 brushes, any more than that and it freaks out and stabs you to death. Newer versions can handle a lot more. Moonlight Assault had 5500-6000 brushes, I think, and Tyrann had loads of problems with random leaks, errors and crashes. So that's definitely too much. Also, A3 seemed to be hell on QBSP, can't remember how many brushes it had though.

I also got a level with just over 3000 brushes in the works, no strange errors encountered yet.

[Reply]


Well..
#1965 Posted by Tronyn. [24.66.247.146], 18/12/2001 02:55 GMT
try this:

Page fault at eip=00030774
eax=ffb0f400 ebx=007c24cc ecx=000c0d38 edx=00710908 esi=00000002 edi=000003ce
ebp=007c24cc esp=000ea29c cs=00a7 ds=00af es=00af fs=00d7 gs=00d7 ss=00af
Call frame traceback EIPs:
0x00030774
0x00000004

C:\quake>

Not "general protection fault" but rather *page* fault. Hm. 3175 brushes, 140 monsters, and will play in Quake for 10-20 seconds before crashing. Gives a long series of "too many efrags!" errors before loading.

Is this a problem with too many entities?

[Reply]


Hmm, No Title
#1966 Posted by Tronyn. [24.66.247.146], 18/12/2001 03:54 GMT
Page fault at eip=00030774
eax=ffc0fee0 ebx=0079542c ecx=000c0d38 edx=006e93a8 esi=00000001 edi=000002b6
ebp=0079542c esp=000ea29c cs=00a7 ds=00af es=00af fs=00cf gs=00cf ss=00af
Call frame traceback EIPs:
0x00030774
0x00000018

C:\quake>aww yee
Bad command or file name

C:\quake>why must this be
Bad command or file name

C:\quake>will thou not fix thine self?
Bad command or file name

C:\quake>I do beseech thee!
Bad command or file name

C:\quake>exit if suckage > 0

[Reply]


Scary
#1967 Posted by czg [158.38.54.27], 18/12/2001 19:31 GMT
I used to get those errors in bucketloads when I first got Quake in '97. Turned out I was allocating 12 megs of RAM, because I thought I had 16, but one of the ram chips turning out to be b0rked so I had really only 8 megs. I don't know how this'll help you though.

[Reply]


Yeah, I *think*
#1968 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 18/12/2001 22:23 GMT
it has something to do with size, so pulling a cheap shot I deleted the first 10% of the map and tacked it on to the one before.. so THAT works now.

however, I've now run into a bad surface extents on the next map. oh what fun :)

[Reply]


Tronyn,
#1969 Posted by necros [172.130.35.103], 18/12/2001 22:38 GMT
out of curiosity, What is this map that keeps trying to stab you?

And what Quake are you using? (SW, WQ, GL, other...)

[Reply]


Necros
#1970 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 20/12/2001 06:23 GMT
it's not so much what map IS as what map ISNT sir

let me see -

add2, compiled fine, gameplay half done - made a couple architecture changes, finished gameplay - leaf with too many portals - attempt to fix that generated a "general protection fault" upon trying to load the map in quake

arabian nights remix (night journey) -more visportals than a starbuck coagula map, more errors (first, it was a too many clipping surfaces, then too many torches, then plain old general protection fault, then *page* fault) than a tronyn map! hah. actually though I did fix it, I think, though Tyrann tells me it will take weeks to vis.

the haunted hills (first nj map) gazillions of invalid solid errors, point off plane up the ass, compiler freezes/crashes, bad surface extents quake crash, general protection fault quake crash. all suspect solids have been deleted, at least 20% cut off of the begining and end of the map, large areas cut up into smaller pieces, torch count and overall entity count reduced.. but still...

soe2m2 (until recently) - isnt it great when you make a map, do 80% of the lights, then it crashes and u loseit all? then months later when you're doing the gameplay you lose the map that the gameplay was done on and have to redo it from scratch? throw in a lot of leaks, compiler errors.. good fun.

night journey will most likely end up spilling over into january given these errors.

sorry, I guess this should have gone in the hate thread

[Reply]


Leaf With Too Many Portals
#1971 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 20/12/2001 10:14 GMT
Yay, my favourite error!

[Reply]


Skill Levels
#1972 Posted by NotoriousRay [199.75.227.58], 20/12/2001 17:23 GMT
q1sp mappers: how do the majority of you impliment skill levels? one at a time, starting at one end of the spectrium(easy or nightmare)? or just do all 4 as you go? (aimed for those that don't place monsters as they build..)

kthx

[Reply]


Skill Levels
#1973 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 20/12/2001 17:36 GMT
i usually place monsters/ammo/health in a way that is about right for me, then once i've got that done i treat that as "hard" (it should be harder for other people to play the first time than it is for me the hundredth time.) Then to get easy and medium i go through and remove monsters or add health, as appropriate. (vore becomes ogre, two hknights become one, a shambler becomes shambler with 50 health)

[Reply]


Gmax 4 Quake 3
#1974 Posted by The Cream Enjin [213.122.127.78], 20/12/2001 20:06 GMT
I just downloaded gmax, and noticed that you can download a file called "gmax tempest" which allows you to make quake 3 maps in gmax.
has any1 tried it? is it any good?

[Reply]


My Skill Levels
#1975 Posted by Fat Controller [203.79.68.58], 20/12/2001 20:54 GMT
I tend to place entities and things for Normal skill, then add more monsties for Hard/Nightmare and take 'em out for Easy.

[Reply]


Tempest
#1976 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 20/12/2001 21:14 GMT , Refers to Post #1974
Can't say I've given it much chance but the general idea seems to be that it is aweful.

[Reply]


OK
#1977 Posted by The Cream Enjin [213.1.177.248], 20/12/2001 21:27 GMT
THANKS

[Reply]


Generally, And Stupidly..
#1978 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 20/12/2001 23:56 GMT
I tend to build the entire level, then light it, then put in gameflow (doors and buttons, basically) then put in all items/monsters/other entities. when I do this I do it area by area, placing monsters for all skill levels at once - I have normal in mind as a standard, and add for hard and subtract for easy. but I do this area by area, not the whole map at once. and then after that if the map's going to have DM support, then I do that.

[Reply]


Hm... Interresting...
#1979 Posted by necros [172.131.220.61], 21/12/2001 01:11 GMT
I tend to do it all at once... this generally leads to me running into some silly problems... but I could never stand NOT lighting my map, as it usually looks so bad fullbright anyhow... I usually do leave out the monsters, though, until the end, as they tend to annoy me more than anything. (Typing Notarget each time you start the map is very annoying, or Trying to find a leak while monsters are shooting at you... Tongue)

The step by step approach sure has some advantages though.... all I can say is: good luck with yer maps. Smile

[Reply]


I Use...
#1980 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 21/12/2001 01:28 GMT
metlslime's approach, with one exception. Set the enemy up for a single skill level (usually normal) then send the level out for beta testing. I ask the testers to rate the skill as is and suggest changes where necessary to solidify that level but also tweak it for the remaining two. I love beta testers Smile

[Reply]


[Tronyn]
#1981 Posted by Speedy [80.70.224.147], 21/12/2001 02:43 GMT
What do do to them ? Its strange you have so many problems.

metl: neat idea to have monsters with reduced health (you add health key or what ?)

[Reply]


Speedy
#1982 Posted by metlslime [12.228.72.232], 21/12/2001 03:27 GMT
no, i meant a shambler accompanied by two +25 health boxes. i think it's almost never a good idea to change nonobvious monster traits like health or damage per shot.

[Reply]


Palldjon
#1983 Posted by Lunaran [64.109.175.211], 21/12/2001 05:08 GMT
That's such a fucking great idea I'm going to use it for CF. Yay!

and that's a yay dammit. :)

[Reply]


.
#1984 Posted by palldjon [203.29.11.38], 21/12/2001 05:15 GMT , Refers to Post #1983
Beer

[Reply]


Tronyn
#1985 Posted by Fern [141.222.141.1], 21/12/2001 14:41 GMT
Efrags errors usually disappear after I vis my map...

[Reply]


I'm Apparently A Moron.
#1986 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 21/12/2001 23:08 GMT
All I wanted to do was update/redo some of my Q2 level screenies on my site, and I have now wasted about an hour arsing around with Google and old Q2 sites trying to find the console command to turn off the frigging HUD (health, etc.). I was able to find every other obscure frikking console command but this one. Anyone wanna help a brotha' out?

[Reply]


Re: Hud
#1987 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 22/12/2001 03:07 GMT , Refers to Post #1986
Try "sizeup", and "sizedown" to get it back again.
Usually bound to the +/- keys. That's what it is in Q1, I assume it's the same in Q2.

[Reply]


Tyrann
#1988 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 22/12/2001 04:23 GMT
Thanks, but not exactly what I had in mind--all that does is put a varying-width border around the screen as it up- or downsizes it. I want to keep the screen the same size, but lose the health/weapon/ammo/armor icons and numbers so I can get a clean screenshot without all the extra crap on it. Thanks, though. Smile

(In Q3 it's /cg_drawgun 0 and /cg_draw2d 0.)

[Reply]


Pjw
#1989 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.111], 22/12/2001 04:28 GMT , Refers to Post #1988
Well, in Q1 you keep pressing '+' (sizeup) when there are no borders, and the status bar also disappears. Try "r_drawviewmodel 0" to get rid of the gun...

[Reply]


No Joy
#1990 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 22/12/2001 04:59 GMT
on either suggestion. Ah, well, maybe I'll just sizedown and then manually crop the border plus HUD, but seems a pain in the ass . . . there has to be an easy way, I would think. Eh. Thanks again anyway.

[Reply]


To Clarify
#1991 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 22/12/2001 05:02 GMT
I can get rid of the gun, sort of, by changing the "handedness" of the player to "center", which makes the on-screen gun go away, but leaves yet another icon on the bottom of the screen. Tongue

[Reply]


.ENT FILE FOR LAZARUS MOD
#1992 Posted by zip [144.137.148.120], 22/12/2001 10:47 GMT
PLEASE HeLp me i am a very big qoole user i have recently downloaded the lazarus mod and i can't find an entity set for qoole please tell me where i can get one

[Reply]


Latest Sm36 Compile Error
#1993 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 22/12/2001 17:38 GMT
This time it cruelly waited for half an hour till _after_ I ran vis before the fatal error occured.

---- vis ----
testlevel = 4
fastvis = true
9084 portalleafs
27279 numportals
basevis donetal 54528 of 54558
************ ERROR ************
Vismap expansion overflow


I'm using Hvis, by the way, cos rvis+ has a lower max-portals-on-a-leaf limit, and it wouldn't run. Someone on IRC suggested fullvising, but take into account the number of portals (27279) and the fact it took 30 mins for a fastvis...
Basically does anyone know what the hell this means?

[Reply]


Uh Oh...
#1994 Posted by necros [172.169.147.73], 22/12/2001 17:49 GMT , Refers to Post #1993
whoever said full vis is right AFAIK.

it's another Starbuck map! Smile

I would try at least a regular vis, anyway... just leave it on over night.

[Reply]


XeNoN, That Vis Error Message
#1995 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.205.103], 22/12/2001 18:02 GMT , Refers to Post #1993
means that the vis data size (that will be put into the BSP file when finished) is too big.

The limit is set to 1MB and even if it could be raised in a modified vis program, (GL)Quake might not be able to load the map. The vis would then most likely take forever to finish.

And you're probably right; if you can't make it through fastvis, you shouldn't even think about fullvis - since fastvis is always done before fullvis anyway ...

[Reply]


Yes, But,
#1996 Posted by necros [172.155.46.165], 22/12/2001 18:53 GMT , Refers to Post #1995
during a full vis, the fast vis data is NOT stored inside the BSP yet. It is compressed again through the Full Vis stage, and it may be small enough to work.

[Reply]


So...
#1997 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 22/12/2001 19:27 GMT
fullvis is the only option as it stands, yeah? Hmmm...

I would try at least a regular vis, anyway... just leave it on over night.

Vis time is roughly proportional to number of portals isn't it? If oxymoron had 33000 after optimisation and takes in excess of 3 weeks to vis, then this is hardly gonna be an overnight job. All I want to do is test how the lighting looks! :(

Would adding visblockers lower the visdatasize?

[Reply]


Bah
#1998 Posted by cyBeAr [213.64.67.243], 22/12/2001 19:38 GMT , Refers to Post #1997
You don't ahve to vos to see how the damn lights look silly. And fastvis will produce much larger visdata so the 1meg limit is probably exceeded fairly easy.

[Reply]


Cybear...
#1999 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 22/12/2001 19:52 GMT , Refers to Post #1998
I thought I had mentioned this already but I seem to have forgotten...

The map WILL NOT RUN in an unvised state in either Quake, Winquake, GLquake or TomazQuake. It loads the title, sits at the console for a bit moentarily goes all bright and brings up the "illegal operation" box.

Basically it needs to be vised.

One other thing worth mentioning is that the map fastvised and ran fine (albeit VERY slowly) when I had it surrounded in a box.

[Reply]


Momentarily...
#2000 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 22/12/2001 19:53 GMT
(ps. post 2000 :P)

[Reply]


Oxymoron VS. SM36
#2001 Posted by necros [172.155.46.165], 22/12/2001 19:58 GMT
Cybear's right. (I thought I had conveyed the same idea in my last post...) oh well.

A regular vis will take less time, and MAY (not will) compress the vis data size down to less then 1024kbytes... but it's a risk though, as it MAY not compress it that much. In that case, you'll have to do a full vis... =\

i'm thinking 1 1/2 to 2 weeks (2 1/2 to 3 maximum) vis time for 27000 portals... Vis blockers would definatly lower vis data size, (as well as make it go faster) I'm guessing you have a lot of sticky outy parts too... making those parts into func_walls will probably increase vis speed (er... decrease vis time) A good example of this would be the hoops along the walkways in Oxymoron.

In anycase, if you really need a viser, I can try sm36 too, but It'll still take long. I am going away on holidays next week (jan 1 around) If you want, you can give it to me, and I'll leave it going for that week and see how far it goes.

It would be usefull to know what would be the maximum portals that vis will do and still compress it below 1meg...
Elek, you've done high portal maps (Coagula series) how many portals did any of the Coagula maps have?

[Reply]


Hey Look...
#2002 Posted by necros [172.155.46.165], 22/12/2001 20:00 GMT , Refers to Post #2000
I missed post 2000.. soo........

Post# = Year# (soon, anyway).
2002 = 2002

er... right. Yay!

[Reply]


Well...
#2003 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 22/12/2001 20:05 GMT
Some visblockers might do the job, although they're untidy. The func_wall method I've been using to a degree already; guess I need more of them :/

Thanks for the advice, anyway.

[Reply]


A Couple Of Things
#2004 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.117], 23/12/2001 01:02 GMT
If the map crashes Quake with "Illegal operation", then vising probably won't help. It's most likely that one of the other bsp lumps is over the maximum allowed size. Judging by the huge number of portals, it may be edges or verticies, but if you're lucky it might just be textures. If you have a lot of textures, try removing a few from the set to decrease the bsp size.

Also, a full vis will (almost) always take up less space than a fast vis. This is because the data is compressed using run-length encoding. Because less polygons will be seen from a single portal when fully vis'd, there are longer strings of zeros in the data, which compress well.

[Reply]


I Stand Corrected, But
#2005 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.204.97], 23/12/2001 02:45 GMT
I'm still convinced that the vis will take forever to finish with XeNoNs apparently very large PRT file (how big is it anyway ?).

The best idea is probably to start thinking about unpleasant medicine, like splitting the map in two, lowering detail or some hi-tech visblocking methods ...

I mean, how many times do you want to wait several days (or weeks ...) each time you test your map seriously ?

BTW, XeNoN, are you sure that you don't have leaks in your map - most Q1 compilers have IMHO flat out inferior leak handling ...

Maybe that could be the reason for your huge PRT file ?

[Reply]


XeNoN, Have You Tried
#2006 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.203.196], 23/12/2001 09:52 GMT
running bspinfo on your BSP file ? You could post the output (it's rather small) here and then someone might see if any of the numbers are abnormally high.

I had that exact problem before that a map leaked, but I couldn't check out the PTS file in GLQuake because it GPF:ed. Then I ran bspinfo and saw that several numbers were very high which probably caused Quake (any version) to crash.

I assume that if a large map leaks, the total amount of generated data (leafs, faces, portals etc) could very well exceed the capabilities of the engine.

If the compiler then also refuses to present the leak for you and instead generates a ridiculously large PRT file - well, there you are ...

[Reply]


XeNoN Thought A Title Wasn't Needed
#2007 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 23/12/2001 14:07 GMT

---BSP Info--
version 1.1
---------------------
other/sm36/sm36b.bsp
4731 planes 94620
32267 vertexes 387204
17273 nodes 414552
1917 texinfo 76680
28208 faces 564160
20916 clipnodes 167328
9846 leafs 275688
30973 marksurfaces 61946
111437 surfedges 222874
68886 edges 275544
0 textures 1601972
lightdata 806210
visdata 0
entdata 35124
---------------------


I dont understand why it says there are "0 textures", there's actually bitchloads (over 100). As tyrann said, it could be something to do with the problem. Reducing the number of textures was on my 'to-do' list anyway.

And I'm pretty sure it doesn't leak, because otherwise vis wouldn't have run in the first place, correct? The prt file is pretty large though, 2.22mB.

Since last night though I've added a few visblockers; one including a twisty airvent to get from one big room to the next, hehe.

[Reply]


Well,
#2008 Posted by necros [172.145.43.116], 23/12/2001 16:50 GMT
the textures aren't the problem. the size is only at 1601972, which is far below the limit (~2048000 bytes (2mb)).

I'm affraid the rest of that information means little to me though... =\

[Reply]


Ok, So,
#2009 Posted by necros [172.145.43.116], 23/12/2001 16:59 GMT
I was under the impression that the maximum volume for a quake map was 4096 (2048 from the origin in all direction.)

Just for fun, I opened up CZG07a and I find that there is a whole section which goes off into the 3000s. (A certain Light Ent there had the origin of "-3744 -448 688")

Now Does that mean that the max volume is not, in fact 4096, but larger?

Has anyone ever found out for sure?

[Reply]


No...
#2010 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 23/12/2001 17:35 GMT , Refers to Post #2009
It's 4096 in each direction from the origin; IE. -4096 to 4096 on each axis.

Basically 8192^3

[Reply]


XeNoN, If You Try To Use
#2011 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.202.29], 23/12/2001 17:44 GMT
the original bspinfo instead of the 1.1, you'll see the correct # textures in your BSP (the size is probably correct).

For comparison, check the following bspinfo output for a map from a well-known author :

damaul2leak.bsp
2637 planes 52740
36628 vertexes 439536
17007 nodes 408168
993 texinfo 39720
33565 faces 671300
9880 clipnodes 79040
10530 leafs 294840
36057 marksurfaces 72114
133427 surfedges 266854
84753 edges 339012
44 textures 247080
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 39110
=========================
damaul2orig.bsp
2900 planes 58000
15873 vertexes 190476
4756 nodes 114144
993 texinfo 39720
12030 faces 240600
9695 clipnodes 77560
2352 leafs 65856
14591 marksurfaces 29182
57966 surfedges 115932
29227 edges 116908
46 textures 249888
lightdata 299405
visdata 84336
entdata 39097

It's easy to see that the leak in the first version causes several of the numbers to sky-rocket. It cannot be loaded into most Quake engines (they all GPF).

Compare these numbers with the ones in your map and you can see that either your map is a lot larger and more complex than Damaul2 (which is already rather big), or you might have a leak in your map.

I must emphasize again that qbsp producing a PRT file does NOT guarantee that the map is leak-free. Noclip outside of your map, look at the inside and see if it's visible. If you can't see inside, you have a leak.

What qbsp are you using ? Try a different one and get a 2nd opinion ...

[Reply]


Q2 Screenshots
#2012 Posted by Jaj [62.83.163.83], 23/12/2001 18:03 GMT , Refers to Post #1991
To take proper screenshots without the bottom icons, you can do this:

Press the "?" or "-" key two times to reduce the image, then you'll see those icons out of the image. Then, make the screenshot and after,with some program as photoshop you select the center of the screen and you have it :) .

If you have Q2 with a resolution of 800*600 the image you'll obtain will be 640*480.
Or if you want a 800*600 final screenie, you must have Q2 at a 1024*768 first and ....
It's a bit clumpsy Yay! but don't know another method, i've been unable to find a command that make dissapear those bottom icons.
Hope this helps you.

[Reply]


4096?!
#2013 Posted by necros [172.136.98.199], 23/12/2001 18:30 GMT
in each direction? In Quake?

...
...
Holy F***asaurus.

Whoa... and here i was always watching not to go over 2048...

hehe, this map is gonna be huge. Evil

[Reply]


AguirRe, My Map...
#2014 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 23/12/2001 19:28 GMT , Refers to Post #2011
is pretty damn huge, probably moreso than damaul2. (nearly 2900 brushes)

And it's pretty hard to compare:
(Updated info taken from qbsp when compiling...)
---- WriteBSPFile ----
4597 planes 91940
30718 vertexes 368616
16249 nodes 389976
1875 texinfo 75000
26632 faces 532640
20535 clipnodes 164280
9268 leafs 259504
29226 marksurfaces 58452
105236 surfedges 420944
65573 edges 262292
139 textures 1514360
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 32497


The number of planes is almost twice the size, yet other values come in quite a bit lower than damaul2leak (edges, leafs). I'm not sure whether or not this proves anything.

(This is after making several changes like large visblocks, func_wall-age, reducing textures)

I've somehow managed to lower the amount of portals on one certain leaf below 128, so rvis+ now runs; but still gives the vismap expansion overflow I got with hvis :/
-------------------------------------

Onto other things, I've been using treeqbsp on this map for a while now, as wqbsp kept crashing (illegal operation) halfway through earlier compiles, and took twice as long anyhow. I can try wqbsp again though, it's an idea (/me does it as he's typing this...)
And the fly-outside-to-check-if-it's-leaked method is hardly gonna be worthwhile when I can't even get the map to run in quake :/

++++WQBSP live update!++++

Just reported leak treeqbsp didn't...
----- FillOutside ----
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
reached occupant at: (-1024,-224, 544)
no filling performed
leak file written to c:\quake\id1\maps\other\sm36\sm36b.pts
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hrm. Leak in an unloadable map. That's not nice. Sad

Update: it didn't crash
Update: it took 505 seconds as opposed to treeqbsp's 277- wtf?

/me scratches head

[Reply]


...
#2015 Posted by NotoriousRay [4.17.67.82], 23/12/2001 20:54 GMT
what i did to find leaks in the 3000+ brush sp map i'm workin on, is load it in gtkrad and compile (regardless of them issing textures, it will show you leaks)

the unloadableness (as i ran into it, at least)has to do with having too much, stay with me here, stuff in the map that glquake crashes. when i got all leaks fixed this obviously went away. i'd suggest fixing them until all bsp compilers report no leaks, works/worked for me Neutral

[Reply]


Ray
#2016 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 23/12/2001 22:01 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion. I got GktR1.1 installed it, and tried loading the map, but I get 'WARNING: textures\radiant\shadernotex.tga has no alpha channel' in the console, and the program crashes. I love computers.

[Reply]


So This One Time...
#2017 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 23/12/2001 22:28 GMT
Treeqbsp tells me that the clipnodes in my map exceed 3xxxx (forget specific #), which I assume is the limit. Since these are clipnodes, I can solve this by clipping things off, like say for instance, a pentagram you don't touch anyway, by putting a large clip brush over it and making it clip as one big flat surface. Right?

[Reply]


Just So's
#2018 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 23/12/2001 23:22 GMT , Refers to Post #2016
you don't go in the wrong direction.

That warning is always there in GTKR--doesn't mean anything. If it's crashing for you, it's doing it for some other reason. If you can't get it working, maybe try Q3Rad v. 202, as GTK just vomits on some people for mysterious reasons.

[Reply]


#2019 Posted by pjw [12.246.133.99], 23/12/2001 23:24 GMT , Refers to Post #2012
Thanks Jaj! I was kinda guessing that was my only option, but it's good to have it verified.

[Reply]


Well...
#2020 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 23/12/2001 23:31 GMT , Refers to Post #2018
Scampie got it working :)

He's fixing up the leaks for me right now, the good lil crustacean :)

[Reply]


Ladders In Q1
#2021 Posted by R.P.G. [165.247.137.41], 24/12/2001 00:34 GMT
I have some ladders in my Q1DM map. I'm using clip brushes to make the player step up. They are rotated on the XY axis to 45 degrees. The height of the steps is 16 units, and the width is 0.5 units. The player seems to climb them slower than it takes Bal to finish a map.

Can anyone help me out with this? I'd send it off for gameplay and layout testing if this were fixed...

[Reply]


Yay For Crustaceans!
#2022 Posted by Lunaran [64.108.13.162], 24/12/2001 00:47 GMT
Especially with garlic butter and a little marinara ... mm!

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#2023 Posted by Scampie [206.152.135.94], 24/12/2001 01:24 GMT
what the fuck did i tell you people about shrimp jokes? ;D

oh, and the map is fine, compiles perfect except for a strange nonsolid rock which is unnessicary in daz's section.

[Reply]


RPG
#2024 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 24/12/2001 13:47 GMT , Refers to Post #2021
I have some ladders in my Q1DM map. I'm using clip brushes to make the player step up. They are rotated on the XY axis to 45 degrees.

XY axis? X is an axis, and Y is an axis... you mean the Z axis? Try extending the horizontal distance to 2 units/step; that value worked for me.

[Reply]


PS.
#2025 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 24/12/2001 13:48 GMT
Scampie! I wub j00! Smile

[Reply]


Scampie
#2026 Posted by Lunaran [64.109.175.80], 24/12/2001 18:28 GMT
I, uh, I'm having problems getting sm40 to compile. Yeah. You wanna do that for me too?

[Reply]


How Can
#2027 Posted by necros [172.149.19.215], 24/12/2001 18:56 GMT , Refers to Post #2021
you have a step that is .5 units? wqbsp will just round the number to 1 which could be skewing the clip brushes...

Just leave them all as integer values, no floats.

[Reply]


Amendment
#2028 Posted by R.P.G. [165.247.155.226], 25/12/2001 00:15 GMT
They are rotated on the XY axis to 45 degrees should be they are rotated along the z-axis to 45 degrees.

I will try what XeNoN suggested.

[Reply]


CZG(or Others Who Could Shed Some Light)
#2029 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 25/12/2001 00:49 GMT
Since you have made maps bigger than.. the actual world, can you help me out with a map, which, though not the size of say CZG07b, is still much larger than anything else I've made? I want some tips as to how to get around limitations as you seem to have done.

Technically it's the tidiest map I've made, quite neat, in visgroups and all, and nothing really fancy or questionable to QBSP. It's 4062 brushes, and currently Treeqbsp tells me that I've gone over the clipnode limit. Now, by deleting approximately 200 brushes at a time I have discovered that I must delete approximately 600 brushes in order to be below the limit. I have also tried clipping large sections off with clip brushes or just giant blocks (got that from Tyrann), but that doesn't seem to help. Have you run into this and if so how were you able to defeat it. It does have a leak, and I am probably wrong here but based on my very limited understand of compilation processes I think that fixing the leak would reduce the clipnodes, due to Qbsp not having to worry about the outside parts of the map.

[Reply]


Re: Clipnodes
#2030 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 25/12/2001 05:20 GMT , Refers to Post #2029
Fix the leak before you bother with anything else. This will massively reduce the clipnodes, since it won't have to extend the clip hull all the way around the outside of the map.

[Reply]


Fixed
#2031 Posted by R.P.G. [165.247.160.182], 25/12/2001 09:23 GMT
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the step size. Rather, it was darkplaces.exe that was doing the slowing. It only did it when I changed the maxplayer value to 2 or higher. But using PanQuake seems to work just fine.

[Reply]


Oh My God, That Is So Gay
#2032 Posted by Tronyn. [24.66.247.146], 26/12/2001 18:40 GMT
Treeqbsp doesn't report leaks in my map, however, Quark does. I have been compiling sections this map to try and find out which one the leak is in. Quark only reports the entity nearest the leak wheras Treeqbsp would give you a pts file to work with. So I know the area of the (first) leak but I swear that it is not possible for there to be a leak there. However, the full map still won't compile due to too many clipnodes, which can only be solved by fixing the leak(s). I am quite sure that one cause of general protection faults is attempting to load a map that does have a leak, only treeqbsp has still written a .prt instead of a .pts. bah. this probably doesn't even make any sese. I guess I'll try some different compilers.

[Reply]


Tronyn
#2033 Posted by Fern [172.129.136.63], 26/12/2001 19:06 GMT
a cheap fix for a leak going through a solid brush would be to put a huge block of skip texture behind it... ;)

[Reply]


Tronyn...
#2034 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 26/12/2001 19:50 GMT , Refers to Post #2032
I quote from a recent email from AguiRe:

Anyway, the problems with leak detection and huge PRT files are exactly the ones that I've tried to fix in my modified versions. Both TxQBSP (QuArK) and TreeQBSP run very well now, low memory footprint, speedy processing and, above all, *really* improved leak handling.

Refferring to his own enhanced versions available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/.

The updated TreeQBSP should not generate a .prt file when you get a leak. Read up on some of the other features too...

[Reply]


Sweet
#2035 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 26/12/2001 21:02 GMT
yes that should prove most helpful. Unfortunately now the map crashes Quake because of no free edicts; however I think I have a solution to this (we had this problem in OUM).

fern, heh, cheap fixes are awesome - like clipping brushes that QBSP renders non-solid, lol!

& hey necros, how effective is loading a BSP in Quark - that is, say I load a BSP in Quark, export it to map, and use it in Worldcraft - this is not going to be all messy like bsp->map programs, or is it?

[Reply]


Tronyn, The Leak Finder In QuArK Is
#2036 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.205.185], 26/12/2001 23:07 GMT
by no means perfect. It may very well present a leak where there is none (at least according to the compiler). The people behind QuArK admit this and refer to the compilers for true leak detection. The feature is still very useful in some situations (mainly for smaller maps).

As for using QuArK as a bsp->map conversion tool, I don't think that is possible. You can load the BSP into QuArK and modify some things (like entities), but I can't find any option to save it as a MAP. You need bspc from the Q3Tools to do that (or the older winbspc). And yes, it often gets rather messy after decompilation (especially if it's a large map) ...

If you get a problem with the compiler reporting a leak and when you check the pointfile in GLQuake, the leak trail goes right through a solid brush, then try the following :

First, if you are using TreeQBSP, you can activate the older variant of leak file with the option "-oldleak", which generates a longer and wilder trail, but possibly more accurate (you might need the "-particles #" option in GLQuake as well).

Second, in QuArK, I've found that sometimes a brush gets messed up even if it is very simple in structure. If the leak trail goes through this brush, try just to resize or otherwise manipulate it slightly and see if that helps. There is something strange going on in QuArK that causes this effect, unfortunately rather often.

If anyone knows how to avoid it, please share the knowledge.

[Reply]


Thats It
#2037 Posted by Speedy [80.70.224.98], 27/12/2001 03:20 GMT
Just.. avoid Quark. And I think you have to use qbsp thats supports floatpoint coordinates with version 6+, even if you map on grid.

[Reply]


Well, Now You Have Two
#2038 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.202.3], 27/12/2001 18:08 GMT , Refers to Post #2037
choices of compilers that works with the floating points in QuArK, TxQBSP and TreeQBSP, both found here.

Hopefully one of them will meet your mapping requirements - they both work with other editors as well and if you got leaks, you get help.

As for avoiding QuArK altogether, I wouldn't say that. It's not without problems, but it's really easy to get acquainted with for newcomers and its performance is very good IMHO.

What are the main advantages of other editors ? I have only tried BSP 0.93b, WC 1.6 and QuArK 6.3.

[Reply]


Speedy Is Still Working On A Title
#2039 Posted by Speedy [80.70.224.119], 28/12/2001 04:03 GMT
bsp got mouse texturing. that beats all the rest. WC 3.3 is cool aswell

[Reply]


Overflow?
#2040 Posted by Fern [172.167.36.78], 29/12/2001 21:25 GMT
anyone know what the hell is causing this? the map only has 700 brushes in it so far. this never happened with any other unfinished maps :(

www.suspenlute.com/sz.jpg

[Reply]


Hrm
#2041 Posted by Maj [193.128.238.152], 29/12/2001 21:34 GMT
I have a very vague feeling that the SZ_ prefix has something to with strings. Anything odd in your worldspawn or target_print's?

[Reply]


Maj
#2042 Posted by Fern [172.138.135.179], 29/12/2001 22:29 GMT
nothing that I know of. And if there were something strange in the worldspawn, I think it would make itself apparent immediately when you load the level. this is happening at random times when a weapon is fired.

[Reply]


Fern, I Got Exactly The Same Error
#2043 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.200.144], 29/12/2001 23:00 GMT , Refers to Post #2040
today when I was testing how different qbsp compilers handle excessive amounts of entity data (> 64K). Using copy & paste I quickly generated a large entity area in the map file.

When starting GLQuake I either got the "ED_Alloc: no free edicts" error or the "SZ_GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set".

The first one I think means too many entities (which may include e.g. gibs as well during play), but the other one I'm not sure of. Obviously it's something that has exceeded its limits, but what and why ?

In the GLQuake source code it happens when overflowing a buffer (which could be anything).

[Reply]


Aguire
#2044 Posted by Fern [172.148.230.241], 30/12/2001 00:35 GMT
Thanks! I deleted all brushmodels from the map and compiled it. No problems. Now I just need to check them one by one to see which one is causing this =)

And I always thought edicts were modeled entities but I could be wrong... =)

[Reply]


Edicts
#2045 Posted by necros [172.139.145.61], 30/12/2001 02:29 GMT
are all dynamic entities, (ie, not the static ones, which are made with the makestatic statement in qc.)

Edicts count for everything in the level; everything which is not static.

I forget the max # for this, though, but I'm sure someone here knows.

If you have no alternative, Panquake increases the max edicts a lot, so you should never run into this problem with it. (Also, most other custom engines as well.)

[Reply]


Fuck Mapping
#2046 Posted by Fern [172.151.210.46], 30/12/2001 02:40 GMT
deleted every brushmodel in the map, worked fine.

restored brushmodels one by one, error reappeared after reaching a certain number.

deleted groups of brushmodels completely at random, error did not reappear as long as the total number of bmodels was kept ridiculously low.

tried creating a map with 64 func_walls, wouldn't load, gave a weird error with invalid characters in the message.

tried compiling with txqbsp, same.

tried saving with Quark and compiling, same.

tried making a map in WC3 with a single func_wall, dubsp crashed.

Perssp3 will most likely not fucking be completed so fucking there. Fuck it. Looking forward to SM36.

[Reply]


Hmm
#2047 Posted by Speedy [80.70.224.73], 30/12/2001 02:55 GMT
brushmodels limit is about 255 afair, if you crash on 64 you have some issues

[Reply]


The Saga Continues...
#2048 Posted by Fern [172.151.210.46], 30/12/2001 03:39 GMT
deltreed and reinstalled quake just in case I changed something without knowing it...

reinstalled wc1.6...

Maps with large numbers of func_walls (96) now load in quake and do not cause overflows

deleted every brushmodel in perssp3 and pasted the 96 func_walls, map ran fine

pasted the brushmodels back in, crashed.

So apparently there's something fucked up about that cluster of brushmodels, even though I can't narrow the error down to a single model.

Which means that in order to finish this, I'll have to start from the map with everything cut out and rebuild the models from scratch.

argh.

http://www.suspenlute.com/perssp3b.gif

[Reply]


Uh
#2049 Posted by Fern [172.146.111.145], 30/12/2001 03:55 GMT
now you can see through the floors for no reason as if draworder were on...

[Reply]


Re: Edicts
#2050 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.200], 30/12/2001 04:17 GMT , Refers to Post #2045
from quakedef.h, line 107:

#define MAX_EDICTS 600 // FIXME: ouch! ouch! ouch!

[Reply]


Fern:
#2051 Posted by NotoriousRay [199.75.227.226], 30/12/2001 15:22 GMT
i heard you say in irc that you're using alot of hipnotic stuff. i can say through experience that the wallsprite stuff and/or the bulletholes from just shoooting a wall, used to cause problems for me when i would load a semi-big unfinished map in hipnotic. dunno if thats yer case though. also would crash a few hipnotic maps with the edicts message (i guess each bullethole is a type of ent? who knows..)

[Reply]


Heh, Fern:
#2052 Posted by necros [172.128.170.131], 30/12/2001 15:47 GMT
if your using the rotating entities, then that's your problem. They are evil, and eat up edicts like nuts.

Also, do you have a lot of teleports in the level? if so, try replacing the monster teleports with spawns... (via qc, of course)

[Reply]


Fern
#2053 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 30/12/2001 18:45 GMT
lol. that's all I can say.

"deleted every brushmodel in perssp3 and pasted the 96 func_walls, map ran fine"

so check this out, what would cause this particular Quake crash:

Error: SZ_GetSpace: 8138 is > full buffer size

C:\quake>

[Reply]


Situation...
#2054 Posted by Tronyn. [24.66.247.146], 30/12/2001 21:01 GMT
Alright, here is the situation I'm having trouble with. A large map, around 1,300 entities and 4,000 brushes.

Problems:

-If the full map is run without clipping off or deleting large areas, QBSP gives a too many clipnodes error.

-Map cannot be viewed in quake. Various crashes include General Protection Fault immediately, General Protection Fault after 5-10 seconds, SZ_GetSpace: 8138 is > full buffer size, overflow without allowoverflow set, too many static entities, no free edicts.

Attemped solutions:

-The too many clipnodes problem could be fixed if the remaining leaks could be fixed. However for that to happen I have to be able to view the whole map in Quake, since I compiled the map in sections and rid each section of leaks - these last leaks are at the joints.

-Upon slicing off the first third of the map(2,800 brushes as opposed to 4,000 now), plugging the void off with a giant brush, and reducing the entity count from 1300 to around 600, the map STILL GIVES A GENERAL PROTECTION FAULT and so I cannot go in and fix the leak(s).

For chrissakes, what am I supposed to do with this. I wish to fix the leaks and remove enough entites so that the overflow/no free edicts/too many statics errors go away. But I really don't know how I'm going to get this done.

For starters, what exactly qualifies as a static entity - torches, flames, barrels, ambient sounds, right? What exactly is the limit. Is there a program which can count the number of static entites in a map. Is there a program which can delete all of the static entities in the map.

Will fixing the leak and getting the map vised + running the edict-freeing program solve the general protection fault crash? I think it might.

yeah, and happy goddamn new year. what a gay map.

[Reply]


Tronyn, If You're Referring To Soe2m4,
#2055 Posted by aguirRe [195.163.201.65], 30/12/2001 22:08 GMT , Refers to Post #2054
I've found two of the leaks and going for the third (tomorrow). But it's one big map and it's really a struggle since the map can't normally be loaded into GLQuake to inspect the pointfile. One has to do it in an indirect manner.

I've so far been using both WC (which can load the pointfile) and QuArK in order to identify the leaks and then patch the map file manually. It works, but it's a major pain.

But I have an idea : When getting the leak coordinates and the corresponding PTS file, then just chop out all other parts of the map (including entities) around this area and compile again. Make it rather brutal, no sealing off.

Then you get a lot of leaks and whatnot but you get a BSP that is small enough to be loaded into GLQuake together with the original PTS file that identifies the leak. This works and should probably be easier ...

[Reply]


Can Someone Make These Maps ?
#2056 Posted by Link [212.186.255.4], 30/12/2001 23:19 GMT
http://www.challenge-eu.com/smackdown/north/columns/link/

It's Quake maps

Thanks for helping out whomever you are =)

[Reply]


AguiRe
#2057 Posted by [Tronyn] [24.66.247.146], 31/12/2001 01:06 GMT
Hey, I never thought of that!!!
that is a very good idea - beats the crap out of what I've been doing - basically banging my head against the wall since I sent you the map.

upon fixing the last one though, be ready for some major problems with Quake about the map's size (I think).

[Reply]


Re: Situation...
#2058 Posted by Tyrann [203.56.239.117], 31/12/2001 01:57 GMT , Refers to Post #2054
If your heapsize isn't big enough, that can cause GPFs as well. 12 or 16 Megs should be enough for just about any map...

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I Vaguely Recall...
#2059 Posted by XeNoN [194.117.133.196], 31/12/2001 02:00 GMT , Refers to Post #2058
...having to allocate more on neh3m2 and gmsp1. That's all though :)

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Transparent Floors
#2060 Posted by Fern [172.173.140.110], 31/12/2001 03:13 GMT
(sigh) bad and good news. I just watched some SDA demos on n3sp03 and noticed the same effect where brushes seem to have large holes in them or something (hard to describe) and I certainly didn't notice anything like that when I first played the map. So the bad news is that Quake is uglier, but the good news is that at least the problems I'm having now with perssp3 aren't due to my incompetent unmitred mapping ;)

BTW I know nobody cares about any of this shit so I'll probably stop whining so much in this thread Tongue

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Hehe
#2061 Posted by Speedy [80.70.224.89], 31/12/2001 04:15 GMT
wellcome back to mapping Fern ;)

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