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I've been pondering the idea of a collaborative episode for a longer while now (practically since Ancient Aliens for Doom came out) and as such I have several questions, ones that I think will provide a lot of clarity for all participants:
Are you mapping for this jam? What is the "narrative" and why is it important that mappers stick to it thematically? Are you going to accept feedback on the narrative? You'd like to encourage mappers to make their own textures to use alongside the original id textures - how exactly are you going to encourage them? Are you going to be doing quality checking of each new texture pack? What are the target progs? id1, AD, Quoth? What is the target map format? Vanilla, protocol 666 or BSP2? What will be the weapon progression and monster progression of this episode? Surely they must be relevant to the narrative? How are you going to ensure that this episode is a cohesive experience? Will you be providing notes directly or is it going to be "just figure something out guys"? I'm mapping atm runic/maya/ruins map, it starts with the teleport on top of some kind of tomb with stairs. So entering that maps would go through almost any kind of teleport, right?
I guess it is better to message through emails then, in order to be more specific. I'm totally open for the suggestions about styles and so on. Beta1 Screenshots: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/newhouse_runic1_beta1_screenshots.png Yo, thanks for the questions, if you have follow-ups don't be shy to ask. I hope that this can clarify some things.
Are you mapping for this jam? I was planning on mapping, but I was going to let other people pick their maps first. If there is a lot of interest I'll bow out and make textures for people. I hope me contributing or not is not a reason for you to not contribute >_> What is the "narrative" and why is it important that mappers stick to it thematically? Are you going to accept feedback on the narrative? When I say narrative I mean that I want the maps to feel like together they tell a story. I had an idea for them and that is why I suggested the map flow. The map themes are flexible, the main thing that I want to give to the players is a sense of purpose. Not just "here are 7 maps that just happen to flow into one another". You'd like to encourage mappers to make their own textures to use alongside the original id textures - how exactly are you going to encourage them? Like I said, I want to have something to give back to the community other than maps, I hope that this carrot is a big enough incentive. If not then there is room during the mapping process to suggest different textures to mappers. I'm going to encourage mappers to share their betas with one another so that feedback can be given. As I mentioned in the post above, I would like this to be a polished release and constructive criticism with suggestions can be a way to help achieve that. Are you going to be doing quality checking of each new texture pack? I would like to release the textures as one wad at the end of the jam. Much like id0 and id1. I want the textures to fit in well with the map. Fit for purpose. Ideally they should also work with the theme of the maps. If anything is awful, I have no qualms about telling people they can do better or would be better suited with a different texture. So, yes, I will be checking the quality of the textures. What are the target progs? id1, AD, Quoth? The progs target is id1 OR slightly modified id1. The only reason why I might include a slightly modified id1 would be to add boss functionality and an episode end finish text. What is the target map format? Vanilla, protocol 666 or BSP2? After the discussions on the general abuse thready I've decided to relax the map format restrictions. I would like to keep the scope of the maps from getting out of hand. The original map format did that "naturally" because of it's size restrictions. But that can be done without restricting the format. What will be the weapon progression and monster progression of this episode? Surely they must be relevant to the narrative? Yes, it is relevant. It is important to me that there is a discussion between the mappers for what they want to include in their maps. Also it is dependent on whether mappers want to stick with the episode flow that I've outlined above, or if they would like to modify that. Because naturally if it is modified the mobs will change. If we stick with the map flow above, then I suspect the mobs will be: Map1: grunts, dogs, enforcers Map2: maybe a few of the above, rottfish, wizards, ogres Map3: ogres, wizards, knights, hellknights Map4: ogres, wizards, knights, hellknights, maybe a shambler Map5: knights, hellknights, fiends, vores, maybe a spawn or a shambler The arsenal and ammo should expand with the flow of tougher monsters. How are you going to ensure that this episode is a cohesive experience? Will you be providing notes directly or is it going to be "just figure something out guys"? Once I have more buy-in I'm going to create a discord where people can more easily communicate with each other. I'll probably also set some beta dates for feedback. I'll also be encouraging people to plan what they are doing, maybe making some layout sketches and posting them, as well as posting "inspiration" or "aspiration" images for what they want their maps to feel like. Newhouse: I would really prefer maps from scratch as this allows the map to be more collaborative.
Hexcalk: I was considering modifying the vanilla start map with an extra episode portal for this map. Let me think about it. Based off prevous jams I'm not sure we'll get more than 7.
Having said that I'm not against having more secret maps if we get too much buy-in. Typically I'd like people to pick one of the maps and claim it OR get excited about another theme of map and sell it to me. That is totally fine. I think it is better to start from the empty page together with other mappers.
in post 5
I wrote: "Map4: ogres, wizards, knights, hellknights, maybe a shambler" Perhaps ogres and wizards in 3 maps consecutively might be a bit much "Map5: knights, hellknights, fiends, vores, maybe a spawn or a shambler" A vore is a spawn, I meant a shalrath I would like to claim the Swamp section as I like water based levels. Being it "level 2" would be a nice change of pace as far as monsters/weapons/pacing.
I would want to just use standard id textures like in e1m2 or gloom keep. I don't really plan on making custom textures but if Shamblernaut is there to offer them I'd be cool with that. My initial thought is to have the player start from a slipgate portal with some base crates/grunts stranded. Swamp would have some outdoor and swamp ruin sections with underwater parts leading to a few secrets. I'd cut secrets to probably 3-4 depending with the highest reward being a GL or Red Armor? I would use Grunts/Enforcers/Dogs (Start) and Ogres, Rotfish, Knights, scrags, and possibly death knights (Maybe no Dks) with a fiend being the "toughest" encounter but serving as the "boss". I think I'd only be able to work on this map for 2-3 days a week and of course by days I mean 2-4 hours a day. If that doesn't seem like enough time then let me know. you've bagged the swamp-map
once I get more people claiming maps I'll link a discord where we can chat about the maps. What is protocol 666 and BSP2 in this context? Isn't protocol 666 an engine-side increase of map limits? And BSP2 is a map format that increases limits?
Also want to say this should be really cool. I don't get why more mappers explore story-driven progression, something like what ad_mountain did with the books. I don't get why everyone seems to be content just fighting a bunch of monsters in random places for no explained reason. It's singleplayer, we need some explanation! I think I'm going to claim map 3 then - I already have a small "swampish ruins" start in id1+ textures (as observable here)
sevin: That's correct, protocol 666 increases the map limits up to the format limitations (I think) while BSP2 is a different format with larger limits. The earlier had become standard practically since it got released with FitzQuake 0.85. Nobody should be mapping for "vanilla limits" in 2017. ;-) I will be doing a lost "lovecraftian" city, if that is fine for everyone. I have passion towards the episode 4 and eerie cities/towns, so that might be my cake. Also I like playing around with ruins etc.
So the beginning of that map would consist a bit of it, before player actually enters the city through giant gate or something like that. It might have non-linearity like in Gloom Keep, but something different obviously. I will be concepting ideas first on papers. So what are limits defined as? The number of entities, bmodels, brushes and shit you can have active at one time? And I guess BSP2 would allow you to use more overall while protocol 666 allows you to use more at one time?
I'll take the rest of my questions to the general thread. Maps taken:
map 2 - swamp - Bloughsburgh map 3 - ruins - OTP map 4 - lost "lovecraftian" city - Newhouse map 5 - cultist church - khreathor Maps left: Map 1: base Map 6: boss & Secret maps (these are wildcards with regards to themes) I could do M1, never tried a base map, would be fun for me. Textures, is it fine using the ones from ad wads? Plenty of base textures to choose from
No worries, map 1 is yours.
Stick with the pak0, pak1, and maybe mission pack textures for now. We can look at other textures when you get to creating detail. Do you have anyone in mind for coding/making the boss? I'd be up for that if nobody else is...
Ionous was doing the boss level, if you want to collaborate with him on that, then I'm more than happy with that so long as he is.
Daz jumped into the discord and asked to do the start map, but if you want to do another secret map then you're more than welcome to join and contribute too.
This was suppose to be retro/painted with a rougher brush yea? Id1 architecture but +1, we can do better without it taking longer today :) and with texture alignment. I got the impression this is not a "every brick is a brush" kinda thing, focus is on solid gameplay
can i suggest the lava worm here? https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/virtus.html But it would become completely a mod.
If not and it's simpler to do, A chton with DoE's Lavamen. Bosses on their own are easy to exploit. Five bucks that the changelevel triggers will lack the no intermission flag...
Actually, I expect a clever and intricate combination of skill selection and secret level in one! As Lovecraft invented a ton of alien deitys/monsters it could be one of the other ones.
Remember to not make it a bulletsponge, like in any other 'modern' FPS. Use the Zelda formula: Do some shit 3 times to kill the boss: e.g.: press 3 buttons to grille some dude in his jacuzzi because of some conveniently placed electrodes. I wouldn't enjoy an original boss remade. I don't have a clue how long it takes to make enemys for quake from scratch. If so I like to do something and I've released some in the past. Although I should probably read this thread instead of scanning it. LMK.
I linked the discord chat that we're using for communication earlier in this thread. Please join us. Everybody else who is participating is there.
@FifthElephant you too. |
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