great map!

I don't know if it's intentional or not, but this map just oozes goofy charm. The silly skybox, the cheesy skeletons, the colours – it feels like running around in a Monkey Island game, and I love it. Most of it is very pretty, though some parts look a little shoddy. But this map has personality. And personality goes a long way.

Very beautiful -- I wouldn't at all call it goofy -- and laid out well for a fine playing experience. I rather like how this map plunges you straight into fights with tough enemies from the get-go, because it's not at all stingy with the health or ammo. It's fine to come out of a shambler-and-fiend fight down to 20 shells and 30 health, because there are supplies; which makes it fun to fight.

I found two secrets, and liked them both very much.

1. After you first come out into the canal area pictured above, turning left, you're shot at from above by a death-knight and an archer-knight. In fact you can see the archer just above and to the right of the centre of that picture. When you've killed them and gone up to the area they were on, you can follow a very thin ledge around to what is now your right, till you're above the door that you can into this area by. There, you can walk through a window and find a rocket-launcher, which comes in VERY handy for all the vores!

2. From the area that overlooks one end of the canal, you run up a ramp to a raised area, then down the other side to the door that leads to the big battle hall with the pool in the middle. On your right as you come to that raised area is a discoloured patch of wall. When you hit it, it opens onto the girders above the first large area. Not only are these girders full of goodies, but they lead to a window overlooking the very first (smaller) area. You can just across to another window on your left, then follow another very narrow ridge around to where there's red armour in a nich. But wait, there's more! From there, you can jump over to the roof on the other side of that area, and climb up it to a teleporter which takes you to zombie-filled sewers with more goodies.

The second one is particularly lovely.

But I missed two other secrets. Does anyone have them?

(Oh, and needless to say: 5/5) Rocket launched

Meta-secret

This is the Quake stuff I like more.. imaginative, open spaces, townesque style, blah blah

Architecture has aged a bit but layout is still good. I agree with Icantthinkofanickname that the visual style is a bit... let's say cartoonish instead of goofy (like for example the skeletons' death animation being a somersault), and it feels very weird in this game.

What was that sort of giant stone golem boss? Never saw anything like it in Quake. He could use a much better texture but he's one hell of a tough bastard! It cost me a whopping 50ish cells, 200 nails and at least (I lost count) 40 shells to put him down!

I found plenty of hidden stuff but only 2 counted as secrets and oddly, MikeTaylor's #2 didn't count as one for me (I don't remember what my #2 was).

I would have rated this a 4 but the very odd visual style that I'm really not fond of and some vis problems in the arena with the uneven ground just didn't cut it for me, so 3/5.

Nobody tell MadFox about texture alignment or z-fighting. It would be like telling Jandek to tune his guitar. You have to get on his level.

I never got that mislignment thing, surely not with the hexen textures. Also z-fighting is beyond my hat. I remember when I was told my mapping fun was killed. Never the less, it's just a step further to perfektion.

Only two things really broke me up in this map, HOM's and warnings for too many polys and edicts. After I got them solved my eyes grew pale by playing too much.

Going through the corridor is a door with secret three. The last room behind the one with the arcade there's a tile on the floor which holds the fourth.

Better to play an instrument than acusing one for listening. :P

Sorry if my comment came off as insulting. I didn't mean it that way at all! You are one of my favorite mappers, Madfox! (And for those who may have missed the joke--Jandek is a blues/folk (sorta) musician who uses unconventional tunings--his music just sounds "out of tune" to those who aren't into it. I'm into it!)

LLLLLLLLLove it.

As of now, this is my favorite Madfox' map - along with that one certain sailing-related map from his Abandon pack.

Probably, the best place to start an acquaintance with Madfox' maps in general, as well.

Not a terrible map, but it feels amateurish. There is a lot of little issues like Z-fighting. And really it doesn't feel like a Greek city, it feels like a medieval or even Victorian city with a few Greek-esque elements. Like since when did ancient Greece have street lamps. Anyways, the real problem is the amount of awkward and unfun fights. The worst is the circular multi-floor area around the water that's repopulated multiple times. The way it's built forces you into poking in and out of its entrances to take potshots, which is tedious and unfun. This would've been somewhat improved if you got at least one explosive weapon. But neither the grenade or rocket launcher is found in this level (unless in a secret I missed). Which, in such a big map full of enemies, is really a shame.

To whirlstr: If I am not mistaken, both of the explosive weapons are located on the street-with-the-canal depicted on the screenshot above. Grenade launcher is in one of the buildings, while the rocket launcher hides in a secret. Also, to give you some, probably unneeded, context. This is pretty much the epilogue to the Abandon userlevel campaign by the same mapper - and this level is made in a very similar mapping style and with a MUCH higher level of visual polish, when compared to those maps. That's not to say that looking better than Abandon maps automatically make this level's visuals God-tier (although it does have its moments), and more to say that after trying Abandon, it just becomes apparent that this mapper's main strengths lie COMPLETELY to the side of creating awesome eye-candy (although some of the Abandon maps also do have some very occasional visual moments), and the stuff you describe at the beginning of your post, stops to even register due to a critical overload by all the instances of "WHO MAPS LIKE THAT JEEZEZ" (to Madfox: don't worry, I am being ironic there; I love your maps, keep doing what you are doing). Finally, this is not nearly the most punishing of this mapper's maps (Phantom Folly, for example, I thought, was way more - impenetrable, I guess?), and all of them heavily promote cheesing anyway. All of that is absolutely not to say that you aren't entitled to voice your own opinions, you are - and more to make it apparent, that what we are discussing is just a heavily unconventional thing that marches to its own beat, and, well, that's it. It is what it is.

"stops to even register due to a critical overload by all the instances"

Ah, my maps aren't your only concern. Registering also takes a lot of judgement.

If I understood what you just said correctly, that is exactly the whole point of Flying Dutchman to me. If you decide to find ugliness, unfairness, unpleasantness in what surrounds you at any given moment, you'll manage to register everything aforementioned no problem. If you decide to find wonder, beauty and goodness, even in small things, chances are, there will be something, anything, that will manage to catch your eye as being exactly that. Discerning goodness and beauty around you, however, gives you hints as to how to gradually change your life, your current circumstances, so that to slowly arrive at the position where there will be more pleasant things around you, than there were before. It gives you something to look for, to move forward to. While discerning bad things, and using what you saw in order to plan your further course, will just make you run in circles, from one sort of badness to another with nothing satisfying you since you don't even try to look for something to be satisfied with. At least, that's what I kind of registered from Flying Dutchman. Reality around you is, at any given moment, simply what it is, but it very much depends on you, as to what will catch your eye in said reality.

Its just that everywhere you pass people abound. And there is no silence ever... What a fucking lunacy. Can't converse - survive on your own.

[This comment had to be restored. See this thread for context. This means that there might be problems with its formatting or content missing. The information if the user posted while being logged in was not restored. -Spirit]

The point is Abandon is impossible to complete without taking a chow. A lot of other games are so as well. Effectively this one fuels specifically the fear of actually being a loser, making it worse, even if by being inventive. This I am unable to understand. So long.

[This comment had to be restored. See this thread for context. This means that there might be problems with its formatting or content missing. The information if the user posted while being logged in was not restored. -Spirit]

This had some confusing bits here and there but I did really love this one. Some really fun encounters based around, and made for fun by, the geometry of the place. There are always surprises in Madfox's maps. Lot's to enjoy. I almost missed the opening animation of the boss set piece. Kooky fun!