#1 2021-06-04 15:37:22

triple_agent
Member

Quake 9

How do you guys imagine 'Quake 9'?

#2 2021-06-09 17:17:50

Chaser
Member

Re: Quake 9

I'd kill for any new SP quake game - strogg-based included.

#3 2021-06-09 17:36:20

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Hi @'Chaser',

I think we should be more appreciative of the great work that is being done by contemporary, independent artists and engineers, involved in the world of 'Quake'.

'Quake 9' is a concept meant to break the illusion of continuity - or even any actual sequelship - in the trajectory of 'Quake' and 'Quake' franchise releases.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-06-09 17:38:31)

#4 2021-06-19 17:24:48

sushiBear
Member

Re: Quake 9

Hey guys.

Hope Quake 9 is true to Q1 gameplay and atmosphere wise, and has also some Lovecraftian god as a final boss.

> we should be more appreciative…
Oh, but we are! Chaser probably mastered all the maps and packs he was interested in.
I haven't even completed the original two mission packs yet, though, so i'm still happy with what is available at the moment.

Last edited by sushiBear (2021-06-19 19:53:15)

#5 2021-06-19 19:47:48

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

sushiBear wrote:

Hope Quake 9 it is true to Q1 gameplay and atmosphere wise, and has also some Lovecraftian god as a final boss.

That is a big discussion. There is also a problem of being more Roman-Catholic than the old Pope himself.

In order to exercise artistry, one needs to have courage and freedom of self expression. I do not believe in religion or ideological approach, especially in such regard as discussed in this thread. I do not say there should be no ideals or light-beacons whatsoever; they are most welcome, as long as they are being taken for what they are meant to be: a roadsign or a point of reference, rather than an absolute value system.

I imagine this is a common problem faced by companies leasing a franchise, then fearing to anyhow step out of the line with what the original owner has achieved. Such exemplary companies, would arguably give up being themselves to a degree, attempting to mimick the original owner and thus putting themselves at a position of being a fake before the work even starts - it is the case of mindset, the case of approach; the case of flexibility in creativity. Although, certainly, they need to have their homework done with the material.

There is no solid bond that ties 'Quake', 'Quake 2' and 'Quake 3', except for a bunch of declarations and probably a fact that these are technologically all groundbreaking "FPS" genre releases. I did not even play 'Quake 3', to mention on a sidenote.

To like something and want to show appreciation, is one thing, but to be a fanatic without own independent vision, is another.

'Quake 9', right off the bat - from the place of a title - comes in saying: dude, I am my own thing, sorry. That is, at least, how I imagine it.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-06-19 19:56:47)

#6 2021-07-08 17:28:49

Alex Ros
Member

Re: Quake 9

triple_agent wrote:

How do you guys imagine 'Quake 9'?

I imagine it as a manifestation of grand battle of open vs enclosed spaces, as first one is representing non-linear natural approach & natural look actually, as second one is representing linear corydoral industrialisative systems of imagination oppression, therefore 9 will be not a number but an illusion of continuity while in fact it will be enforcing linear commercial approach, nevertheless quake term on its own will be battling infinitely all digits no matters if it's 9 or 6 or 12

Last edited by Alex Ros (2021-07-08 17:29:27)

#7 2021-07-08 18:07:04

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

@'Alex Ross', the question is, what is "objective"? Objectively or phenomenologically speaking, if something is released as a sequel within certain franchise or brand, it does paradoxically follow some continuum pattern - following the truth that nothing exists in the void, especially nothing in the world of culture - even if it tries to defy the sense of continuum; that is the rebellious character of the creation, then. There is more to "9" than just a production line stamp, hopefully.

I like your idea of open versus closed spaces, done in a manner of contrasts. It does suit certain vision of natural versus industrial, mythical versus technological, arcane versus profane, gnostic versus agnostic, ardent versus inert and ultimately, constructive versus destructive. I believe the landscapes in 'Quake 9', should express the fundamental notion that to control the environment, is to control the mind that is being nourished through that environment. In our contemporary terms, the environment, is the culture - in terms of the gameplay world, though, that requires more direct symbolic representation, which roughly means entities.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-09 06:07:58)

#8 2021-07-18 08:19:00

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Design-wise speaking, ideas, divide between three categories: good, bad and ugly.

Good ideas, are contextually appealing, as well as firmly operable. Bad ideas, are both not appealing enough for whatever the reason, as well as hardly any operable; hard to put in practice. Then, there are ugly ideas - contextually appealing ideas, that are not very operable; attempts to break them down into practical forms, end up consuming a lot of energy and effort, in exchange for an outcome of unknown or possibly questionable value. Some ideas, do better in conversation, books or movies and even music than in the matrix of digital games. Gaming world, must prioritize on operability - the ability to put things simply, especially in function.

Gaming world, can enter making things intricate, but it should avoid making things complex, in particular on a conceptual level - things tend to grow complex organically, by their vector of progress, as the correspondence between existing parts, evolves. Thus, the level of complexity, needs to be properly managed. Intricacy, in turn, boils down to the depth of detail.

Visually speaking, intricacy is a vertical connection, while complexity, is a horizontal one. Certainly no system can exist without horizontal connections, in and out, but an overt amount of horizontal connections, is what makes the thing prone to confusion and hard to seize. Similar principle applies to mapmaking, I imagine. In turn, overt amount of vertical connections, is simply a problem of resources allocation - too many subjects to probe for.

On the other hand, lack of basic complexity, means a disjointed bundle of loose shots, while lack of basic intricacy, means a thing of shallow form; a promising husk.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-07-18 12:14:05)

#9 2021-08-12 07:28:05

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

I have wondered back in the day, about the nature of evil. I came to conclusion, that evil, is tightly related to suffering. The grimace of evil, iconically speaking, is equivalent to a spasm of pain. Imagery of evil, are dimensions of human suffering.

Why is evil terrifying to us? It is such, because it represents the unknown - it encourages to ask the cursed question of the mystery of existence; why do I live in this realm of pain, why does this happen to me, why is it necessary, what for?

Simultaneously, what is the purpose of evil? It is to make oneself understandable - comprehensible.

The state of being "evil", is to be misunderstood and alienated - disincluded, because of suffering. This, brings correspondence of suffering and an infectious disease.

Against the evil, the notion of understanding, gains deeper meaning. To understand - is to become one, on an empathetic, human level. To declare: "I understand" - is to proclaim a shared state of experience; a common demeanor; the acceptance. Without understanding, neither can there be absolution, nor salvation, nor heaven.

What are the acts of evil? It is to attempt an extortion of understanding - through enforcement of shared experience; the experience, of pain; as if pain, was a soil, upon which the understanding, will grow, regardless.

The conclusion, is that no human being, without being subject to a state of incomprehensible suffering - invoking highest questions - can commit the acts of evil. Humans, can be greedy, selfish, unwise, savage or shallow, sometimes victim to terrible misunderstandings; but evil, requires suffering, which lands the stigma of disinclusion upon the one who suffers - the godly, cosmic mystery and terror of being alone in an unwanted state of being. Solution in evil, is to make everyone part of it.

The statement, which could represent the creed of evil acts, is that of: "I will make them understand".

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-08-12 07:40:24)

#10 2021-08-12 12:40:48

I Like Quake
Member

Re: Quake 9

Outwitting the Devil, a work of fiction written in 1938 by Napoleon Hill, but only published in 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_IynEEZvxw.

It presents Evil, personified as The Devil (His Majesty), as the negative energy of Existence, dual to the positive one, which is referred to as God, where in the format of an interview, this energy admits to existing not in corporeal form, but in the minds of people which it infects through Fear, Self-Doubt, and Lack Of Self-Definition, turning them into "drifters", individuals who wonder aimlessly under the yoke of habit, mistaking its (the Devil's) negative thoughts as their own.

So, we have at least three acceptations of Evil:

• Evil as portrayed within the classic destroyer/devourer motif, such as the evil in Quake;

• Evil as induced suffering as a means for forced empathic understanding, as described by triple_agent;

• Evil as a cunning Fear agent, as described in the work linked above.

#11 2021-08-12 16:50:20

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

I Like Quake wrote:

It presents Evil, personified as The Devil (His Majesty), as the negative energy of Existence, dual to the positive one, which is referred to as God, where in the format of an interview, this energy admits to existing not in corporeal form, but in the minds of people which it infects through Fear, Self-Doubt, and Lack Of Self-Definition, turning them into "drifters", individuals who wonder aimlessly under the yoke of habit, mistaking its (the Devil's) negative thoughts as their own.

This would render God merely as a mean of self-empowerment.

We like the locks of dualism, do we not?

I Like Quake wrote:

• Evil as portrayed within the classic destroyer/devourer motif, such as the evil in Quake;

• Evil as induced suffering as a means for forced empathic understanding, as described by triple_agent;

• Evil as a cunning Fear agent, as described in the work linked above.

Devourer, may attempt to destroy the status quo and bring nothingness - the state of absolute equality - as means of negotiating the terms of own suffering; to make nobody suffer, including oneself. The devourer, could represent an absolute answer to an unsolvable question.

Both are absurd.

Final question is, how do we make it operable, within the terms of a digital game?

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-08-12 16:51:55)

#12 2021-08-17 05:07:39

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

If every digital game, was a case study, to be learned from, what would we have learned from the 'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.'?

Do you remember that moment in the first area - the "Cordon" ground - when a sudden gush of wind engulfs you in a subtle dust cloud, with tree branches waving around to greet and bid farewell to it? That, in my opinion, is the essence of entire game: the utmost immersion, particularly in quasi-open - but certainly wide - environments.

'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.', is also known for the realism factor. While I do believe there is no realism in gamism - as one can either have one - there is certainly a great level of detail, some things were executed with and given depth to. What is this mimickry of realism in 'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.', useful for - the way I see it - is to obtain a better level of intimacy, with the environment one aims to embrace the most.

'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.', is about immersion - it is about wanting to be there, where the story or the experience, happens - instead of just blasting through it, in order to see what comes next; if anything.

If you could become a tree in the "Zone", to perpetually draw essences from that soil and to expand into that atmosphere, to commune with it with your entire being and to consume that sunlight and darkness reaching from a sky, which once was clear - would you?

In a way, in order to hear the true story in 'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.', you have to stop, listen and look around.

What does it have to do with 'Quake'? Do not get me wrong - but: nothing, I believe. I would wish to see that changed, though.

I do understand, we talk about different design patterns, different times, sharing only baseline similarities.

Altogether, it is about soul - a sense of purpose, integrity and uniqueness - I think.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-08-17 05:21:52)

#13 2021-09-02 06:30:25

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Following a word definition, as put on the 'Wiktionary' website - the notion in question, is "viscerality":

1. A quality of being related to the physical, as opposed to the virtual or imaginary world or reality
2. (role-playing games) An impact a player has on the world in a game

My attention, drifts towards the first brought definition.

It has begun with 'Quake 2', when it comes to the 'id Software' games. What I talk about, is a sensation - built through specific game design elements - of inhabiting an actual body, rather than a virtual abstract with a gun as player cock-avatar. In 'Quake 2', the elements of interest, were primarily audial - a thing as simple as a breathing effect. In 'Doom 3', it was pushed further; notice how bullets hitting the body, make a muffled sound, well mimicking - as far as I imagine - how a vibration, transferred through the body mass, would reach central ear or whatever the proper hearing receptor in a human organism, for that kind of sensation, is.

Speaking of the "visceral" - there was once a game, released by a company, called "Visceral games". That game, was 'Dead Space'. Blame me, it was not a first person view shooter, but it had an amazing attention to detail, also when it comes to soundscape and sound effects. Do you remember the vacuum environment - how the protagonist, would hear only the sound effects transferred directly through his body or the armor-habitat; due to lack of air around, being a major transmitter of soundscape, otherwise? Pay attention to that, it is truly amazing.

'Quake 4' - released shortly after 'Doom 3', but prior to 'Dead Space' - pushed the viscerality, probably to the utmost, giving a first person view vista of a third person perspective category of experience, with the protagonist, becoming savagely mutilated and transformed into a post-human being; paradoxically turning to an un-protagonist, in a way. Not that 'Quake 4', would be a recommendable game, just because of that.

The same year as 'Dead Space', was released the infamous 'Far Cry 2', by 'Ubisoft Montreal'. For a brilliant discussion of the game design traits, in detail - with emphasis on the topic premise - I recommend a material linked here; "Aesthetics of Far Cry 2", by 'Face Full of Eyes'.

What I say, is that you, are a body. Humans, are most tied to understanding a body - their body - and the bodily dynamics. After that, they are most tied to understanding the nature, which they could perceive as an extrapolation of own body. Everything we do understand, is an extrapolation of the body we inhabit - a three-dimensional space, as far as our perception and imagination, can go. Abstracting from that, is like creating a metaphor, which must be overcome, in order to properly associate with the meaning implied - possibly resulting in a compromised communication, as compared to direct, physical expression or a notion reinforced with somatic correspondence.

What I believe in, is impact, even if it comes at the cost of fun.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-09-02 06:50:28)

#14 2021-10-31 22:28:43

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Contributing to the "viscerality" design vector and perhaps building somewhat on the rough design patterns of 'Doom 3', I have imagined a gameplay related element, that would modify the protagonist action dynamics, based on the levels of stress suffered.

How would consequences of such "modifier", manifest, in the game matrix? In the extreme, I think it should affect aim precision, as well as handling of weapons and tools in precision-based tasks - such as reloading or speed of equipping. I am opposed to physical "punishment" of the player for the very notion of playing the game, through the means of digital sensory distortion; primarily the visual distortion. The game "economy", must be bound exclusively within the terms of game world mechanics.

How does one get the stress levels elevated? First, through exhaustion, by prolonged enduring in the "red zone" of a stamina bar - combat relevant. Exhaustion, could additionally be induced by harsh and specific environmental conditions - the more difficult the environment, the more cautious the combat in such an environment, ought to become. Second, through damage received, where both the impact measure, as well as the frequency of impacts, do influence the magnitude of stress escalation - armor helps to mitigate that. Third, through the use of stimulants, which offer tradeoffs within specified range - few different stimulants, could be accessible in the game world. Experimentally, one stimulant, could work inverse - helping to mitigate the stress levels, at a cost - albeit, it would be bad, if this, came to be an "ultima fix" for all the gameplay challenges; a disbalance factor.

I assume that if ignored, surpassing certain stress threshold, could result in an instant protagonist death, regardless of the relevant health status. I wonder if actually getting rid of the health bar altogether and relaying solely on the "stress bar", would suffice?

Ultimately, the purpose of described "modifier", is to suggest a degree of speculative balance, between fast progress and more "visceral" approach to the gameplay experience.

Should I also note, that the HUD - the heads-up-display - is best kept at minimum, albeit perhaps not entirely gone.

sushiBear wrote:

Hope Quake 9 is true to Q1 gameplay

I guess you could call it a failure trajectory.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-01 01:13:38)

#15 2021-11-02 14:25:27

OneMadGypsy
Guest

Re: Quake 9

Metal Gear Acid with Quake graphics.

Or for those unfamiliar (if any) ~ a turn based card game with a whole lot of story between levels.

#16 2021-11-02 17:05:44

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

OneMadGypsy wrote:

Metal Gear Acid with Quake graphics.

Only if it has "battle royale" mode in it.

#17 2021-11-16 13:49:10

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

With all the "viscerality" concept being elaborated upon in this thread; I would like to introduce a possible, narrative paradox factor to the equation - the notion of "psychosomatism". In case of becoming lost with the idea given, imagine it in the framework of 'Dead Space' reference.

Here is what I mean, put hopefully simple: what if I told you, that most things in the game world, potentially harmful to the protagonist, do not exist - but reside only inside the mind of a protagonist? The monsters, are imaginary. Furthermore, the guns and the ammo - they are also made up. The guns, do not shoot any "substantial" ammunition; what they shoot, instead - even though presumably realistic in outlook - is of noetic value, made from the same matrix, as the enemy rooster itself.

The ammo those guns shoot, is only good for killing the proper opponents; outside of that, it is all fictional, even in the terminology of a game world itself, it is all made up. In a way of sort, the protagonist, is insane, like a person having bad mental trip - the deeper the rabbit hole gets, the darker and more twisted, the projection, becomes. On the other hand, the pain, suffered by the protagonist, could be real - the death, for certain, should be real.

The concept of "psychosomatism", is meant to emphasize the power of belief and the influence, the mental, can have on the corporeal; to a degree where the brain, may literally shut the entire body down.

The idea, is bundled together with the notion of there being an entity, controlling certain cybernetic infrastructure - not being able to control the organic, regardless - which effectively, make certain "wired" people or installations, experience or acknowledge things, that to an external, non-vulnerable observer, are simply hallucinations. To those "wired" - it is real, nonetheless; it becomes visceral, through a "psychosomatic" channel.

Interesting part, could come, when the player, should need to discern, what is real and what is projected; possibly switching to a right weapon or tool, in order to make a proper impact - the corporeal, can only be wounded with material weapons and the ethereal, can only be affected through objects compatible with the ethereal.

I do not know if this fits within the "Quake 9" spectrum of ideas, but I wanted to share anyway. "Psychosomatism", could bring an overt convolution of things that are meant to be simple, but it may be useful for a narrative twist, perhaps. In the end, the concept - the way I imagine it - is all about stating that the journey, is all in your mind.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-16 21:46:58)

#18 2021-11-16 18:40:53

roxvile
Guest

Re: Quake 9

Quake 9? You are all going to play it inside the metaverse.

#19 2021-11-17 02:37:52

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

roxvile wrote:

Quake 9? You are all going to play it inside the metaverse.

I guess it means some kind of bad forecast?

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-17 02:46:48)

#20 2021-11-18 14:42:23

OneMadGypsy
Guest

Re: Quake 9

triple_agent wrote:
roxvile wrote:

Quake 9? You are all going to play it inside the metaverse.

I guess it means some kind of bad forecast?


I think it was a facebook "meta" reference.

#21 2021-11-18 14:44:30

OneMadGypsy
Guest

Re: Quake 9

triple_agent wrote:
roxvile wrote:

Quake 9? You are all going to play it inside the metaverse.

I guess it means some kind of bad forecast?


I think it was a facebook "meta" reference.

#22 2021-11-18 16:00:47

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

OneMadGypsy wrote:
triple_agent wrote:
roxvile wrote:

Quake 9? You are all going to play it inside the metaverse.

I guess it means some kind of bad forecast?


I think it was a facebook "meta" reference.

Well, better "meta" than "meth", I guess.

#23 2021-11-22 19:04:45

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Returning to the case of "viscerality", while it is more constructive to understand the term independently; minding the way we likely are wired - perhaps the notion, becomes more clearly visible or even benefits, when put in a dualistic frame of reference; against a thing contrary. The thing contrary to "viscerality" or "visceralism" - in the field of game design paradigms - I would call "digitalism".

While I do think of "digitality", theoretically, to be a more friendly solution in terms of digital game making, it unnecessarily exuberates with a more relatable observation, for a human - the final product recipient. I speculate the human, always "translates" a "digital" observation, into a framework making better sense within the organic range of categories, which - I believe - oscillates towards the "visceral" way of representation.

Eventually, why to make arguably a more difficult, "visceral" game, rather than just choose a more developer-friendly, "digitally" inclined perception? I think the purpose, is to ultimately give the player less "background homework" in terms of "translating" the individual experience, to organic and familiar - but still imaginary - lifelike matrix; therefore, to make the game experience, tad bit more immersive; if that is the goal.

"Visceralism", furthermore, is to be considered an improvement vector - as the technology, unfolding, gives rise to the means, allowing to better mimick and portray life authenticity in gaming - the "visceral" ways, refine. In turn, "digitalism" - while undeniably also likely to evolve along with the unfolding of technological revelations - is hypothetically more prone to stagnation within the realm of attachment to own grooves; the "digitalist" design trajectory, seems also maybe less rooted, but more arbitrary and abstract.

Not to state, however, the latter, could not happen to a "visceral" way of thinking - ultimately, a digital game, is a "digital" creation and there certainly comes a moment, when a bulk of ambitions in the field of digital life-mimicry, best become restrained, for the sake of enjoyability and doability altogether. "Digitalist" design, certainly has an opportunity to gain upper hand, when simplicity, easiness and readability, are rewarded. Beyond that, "digitalism", suggests better degree of freedom, when it comes to artistic flexibility.

In the end, it is pointless to proclaim one superior over the other - "visceralism" or "digitalism" - regardless. Both, need to find proper balance, in order to simply fashion a good product, while unmistakably, from both sides of the spectrum, excellent products, may emerge.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-23 06:13:10)

#24 2021-11-23 04:43:10

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

I wonder whether the upgrowth of "visceralism", dwells in the field of digital games?

What kind of matrix, then?

Who knows, what the future holds?

Maybe we still need to find out, how do we get there.

I do not believe the technology, is an apex to mankind.

I think there is a lot to being a human, that we do not yet understand.

Does it mean the "visceralism", becomes inoperable in the matrix of digital games? It rather only means, the outcome, is always going to be restrained by technological limitations and common availability of technological medium, which sometimes, may appear exclusive and niche.

While ourselves, being owners of "visceral" bodies, it seems paradoxical we should need the most advanced equipment, to experience a portrayal of "visceralism" in the digital matrix.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-23 06:04:32)

#25 2021-11-23 07:06:25

triple_agent
Member

Re: Quake 9

Exemplary game that exhibits an intriguing compromise between the "visceral" and the "digital", is 'Distance'. 'Distance', is a racing-like platformer, featuring very "digital" physics and controls - quite unlike your stereotypical image of a racing game - but a very "visceral" core theme, alongside with world presentation, yet with a "digitalistic" aesthetic wrapping to it. It also has killer soundtrack. The game, in my view, does bear some 'Dead Space' vibe, to you fans out there; quite like a missing rib.

The base story concept in 'Distance', tells of a "digitalistic" world, that becomes infected with an alien virus, behaving much in a "visceral" way.

The game itself, is rather unpolished, but it is done with love for what it has.

The 'Distance' project is our path to life among the stars.
We aim to push teleportation further than ever before.
Earth is behind us.
Remember her, learn from her, go beyond her.

To move forward, we must bury our past.
The 'Distance' project, is our path to life and death.
We aim to escape our loop and expand to new horizons.

The path ahead, gives us purpose.
The sequence, is nearly complete.
Remember that pieces form the whole.
All paths lead to the door.

Origin of the infection source is unknown.
The infection appears to be simultaneously technological and organic,
with a chaotic and unpredictable spread.
Nanotechnology, is assumed as the building block for the virus,
though when observed closely,
the underlying material, is still undefined.

Last edited by triple_agent (2021-11-23 09:54:29)

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