Thoughts on TF and Fun
Has cheating and more taken the fun out of Team Fortress?
— Blasphemy
Well, I was reading through the editorials and noticed that a lot of
them deal with complaints, for lack of a better term. They deal with
things like cheaters, campers, and just general lamers. I read these
and I thought, "Geez, is it really that bad?" I personally don't
encounter these people on a regular basis. I think I played with a
cheater once. Campers are bound to come up on occasion.
Lamers....well, ok. I run into them a lot. But anyhow, I got to
thinking that there must be a problem out there if someone is distraught
enough about it to write an editorial on it. All I have to say to
people doing these things is to get out of the TF community and let
people play. This game is supposed to be FUN, and if you are preventing
a person from enjoying the game, then you need to get the ---- out. Now
of course this doesn't apply to those who make the game unfun just
because they whoop you over and over again. But to those people who
would go out of the way to make the game unenjoyable to others, please,
just leave.
I remember when I got into TF. A bunch of my friends from high
school had discoverd it and had sent me a message telling me to check it
out. So I go and download this thing (and Mlagger too. this was before
I found out about Gamespy). Finally I get everything set uop and ready
to go. This was a lot of trouble with a 33.6 modem. It was worth it.
By the time I finished my first game, I though that TF was the coolest
thing since sliced bread. Man, I couldn't believe how much fun I had.
It was like an entirely different game from Quake DM. not only that,
but I could play it with my friends too. It was a game and a social
activity at the same time. Well, since that point TF has dominated a
large part of my life. I play many hours a day, and at least try to
keep up with happenings in the TF community. Who would have ever
thought a game could be so damn addictive?
So I guess my point is this. People need to remember that this game
is about people having fun. Not just you having fun but also letting
others enjoy the game two. What happens if it gets so out of hand that
no one plays? Not likely, but hey, if even one person quits playing
because of another players actions, then a serious blow has been struck
to the entire TF world. Remember people, the key word is FUN. Say that
over to yourself a few times. FUN..... It would do us all some good to
remember why we started this in the first place. If it's not fun, why
play at all?
Cheating and Lamers in TF
More about cheating.
— -=PcW=-zaps00
Recently there has been a war taking place. I am not talking about the
war with Iraq yet the war within the TF community. The war is between
cheaters and cheats haters. I for one am a cheat hater. Sure I think
cheats when you are playing a single player game are fine but when you
use cheats or hacks to get ahead of other players in a multi-player
community is just plain wrong. These cheats do not only affect you;
they affect a bunch of other people playing on the server with you.
I believe that cheating in TF is not justifiable by any means what so
ever. "….But he has a lower ping than I do!" Too bad! I have a ping
that fluctuates anywhere from 200-500 and you do not see me cheating or
whining (O.K. Maybe you will see me whine every so often about lag). If
you want a good ping go out and buy yourself a dedicated ISDN line to
your computer and get a decent ISP. Then you are obtaining an honest
advantage over someone. They went out and spent their hard-earned cash
to buy some serious crap so they could have the best connection they
could have, so why do not u do the same instead of being dishonest and
cheating. This is just saying " Hi, I suck so I cheat!"
I would like to address the worst kind of cheating of all, proxies and
other software modifications. This kind of cheating is not only
unethical, it is illegal. These cheats have been made through reverse
engineering of the software and it is stated in the copyright of Quake
and Team Fortress that this is not allowed. People who resort to this
kind of cheating have absolutely no skill whatsoever. They are merely
relying on the software to do their work for them. I have heard of
there being a autoaim proxy for snipers out there and that makes me just
plain sick. To just have to hold down the fire button and let it do the
work for you…IT IS DISGUSTING. Come on Snipers are annoying enough, now
we gotta put up with one who never misses? In addition, that fact that
he did not develop this through skill only through the aid of a
program. Man this makes me mad.
Also there is the topic of being lame. This is also pretty bad. I have
heard people arguing that their clan camps people during matches and
this has lead them to victory. I find nothing wrong in this because it
is the other clan's fault for not having a solid defense, but when you
camp on a public server where things are basically a free-for-all, it is
hardly acceptable. Camping diminishes the amount of fun people have on
a public server and I will not stand for it. If it is someone playing
on my clan's server I will ask him to stop, and if he does not I will
ask the administrator to kick, and ban, him.
I ask all of you people out there, if you find a person cheating or
being lame on a server, and you know the administrator, report him to
the admin and get him kicked and banned from the server. The cheating
will not stop until we rid ourselves of the cheaters.
Open Letter To The TF Community
Can't we all just get along?
— Falconeer
Is anyone else getting sick of this shit? Let's see, what's been our
news for the last couple weeks? Cheaters, TF2 a full game, the
ensuing uproar, some clan news (which is it's own cesspool of 'you
took advantage of the rules you bastard!'), and a bit of actual info.
LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP, PEOPLE!!! But, let me give some direct advice:
NOTE: These are indicative of what I see going on. They are
certainly NOT all inclusive.
1) NoKami: Your relationship with TFS/Valve/Sierra since the change of
status of TF2 has been adversarial from the start. Personally, I
wouldn't give you word one, customer or not. You made the choice to
get mad. Take the outcome. It's disheartening I'm writing this,
because I've always enjoyed Brimstone. Now I make the choice whether
to continue to go to Brimstone (and possibly wade through a full page
of 'I'm pissed at TFS/Valve/Sierra because in my mind they
disrespected me'). I'm YOUR customer. You're not fulfilling my
needs.
2) Scatterblak: I like you and admire much of the work you've done for
the TF community, but this is going too far. I totally agree that
cheaters are ruining games for people. I don't have a problem with
killing their cheat pages (provided the attacks in question do no harm
to the 'innocent bystanders' on the same server). But releasing
personal info to an audience which has PROVEN itself to be
irresponsible and unaccountable (the Internet at large) is dangerous.
Someone is going to be harmed far outside the scope of the crime.
Hammer their pages, assist Valve in contacting the FBI, go for it.
But releasing public info is the equivalent to stirring up a mob.
3) Cheaters in general: Time to grow up kiddies and play with your
toys nice. Why is it some individuals get enjoyment from dicking over
others? Get a life, huh?
4) Clans: Leagues seem to be sprouting like mushrooms. Clans morph
almost before your eyes. Players change clans more often than they do
underwear. Folks, ask yourself why you're in a clan. Don't join
because it's cool. By my view, a clan is to try and ensure you'll
have a certain standard of people to TF with consistently, and meet
some good people doing it. The politics, rule 'bending',
irresponsibility, and utter chaos of the clan scene drives me nuts.
Try to take it a bit more seriously, huh?
Folks, I've been playing this game since 2.1~2.15. I've seen the
community change from 'everyone knows everyone else' to a group so
large it begins to have it's own culture. I very much enjoy the game.
But too many people are taking TF and turning it into a way of life.
The strength of some of the emotions that some folks have shown/are
showing is almost frightening. I'm here to play. How about you?
Regards,
Falconeer
AKA John W. Ellenberger, MCSD
phrost@tampabay.rr.com
PS: Although I am currently a clan member, I am not prefixing my
handle with it for this letter. The statements made are mine alone,
and are not associated in any way with my current clan.
Lame Gamers
If they can't play in public servers as mature people, then they need to stop playing altogether.
— c4joe
I want you guys to post this news bit...It may be whining to some, but to others as myself people like this need to grow up, if they can't play in public servers as mature people, then they need to stop playing altogether.
I along with some Reg Mega_TF gamers was in Boys's From the Dwarf's server, having a good time and enjoying the games..UNTIL a lamer came in and started building sentries in the doorway of the exit of the upper respawn...!!!grrrr
Now there's one thing I hate more than anything in Reg_TF or Mega_TF is to see this happen..I can deal with gamers camping outside the ammo rooms, but this takes a large bite out of a game when a lame gamer does this...
Now I don't get mad when this happens, it upsets me, but this time, is the last time...I am hoping you post this in hopes to let all the other lamers know I will get there names, and there clan names and post there names up in lights...
Now as for as non-clan gamers, well all I can say it I just hope that one day your playing your little door blocking game and the server adm or someone with rcon happens to be there, and they get your ip..and start banning you all from all the servers..I know if it was my server, I'd want someone I could trust to have rcon, just for this reason..after you find you have been banned from most of the best servers out in Gamespy land, you will wish you had not be such a jackass!!!
Now for all you clan members, I know of a few that do this door blocking game..I had let it past, hoping that you grow up...But I guess some of you never will...So from now on, when I see you boys that have can names, I'm going to be posting what you have done and your name and clan tag on Planetfortress, and hope my friends here do so...
I don't have a pic of this guy doing this, but I do have a name he was going by..
his name is : [zoo]H1ppo
I know, if one of my members from either of my clans was doing this and I found out about it, you can bet I would kick them out of the clan, and post on my web site there names, and ip's to warn other server adm's to watch out for this type of person..And post his deeds and info on every news site I can find..
And just to let you know [zoo]H1ppo....if your a cable modem user, your ip does not change each time you log on....only modem uses do, but not all, it depends on your isp..:-)
With the help of all the good gamers out in GameSpy land, we will do our best to ban every last one of you lamers!! I know from now on I plan to do my part..
Some of you that read the news here know me as C4JoE[>B<] Founder and Former clan leader of BrotherHood, and now I'm known as ]MdT[ D3T-Ma3T3R Founder and General/Leader of Mega Death Threat, a mega clan..
Most of you know me and you know I hold my tongue, I try not to say much, but brother when I do, I make sure I'm heard..So I want all you lamers to get this, I game in the best servers in reg_tf and mega_tf most all the time..Come on in kiddies, act your age and not your shoe sizes and we all can enjoy a few good games, if not, keep a check here for your names to go up in lights..
Private Parts
The recent uproar about cheating is not a new subject.
— [FoE]BooLeaN
As many long standing TF'ers know, the recent uproar about cheating is not a new subject. We have seen what cheating has done to the community in the past, and TF players do not want their games ruined by some bored lamer looking for kicks. Many people have decided to do something about it. Many people have contributed to the TF bug project, while some like Dr. Drain have gone as far as to create an independent program to observe cheating on servers. These people have all done a lot to make the community stronger.
Others though have taken a different course on their personal crusade against cheating. Some well known people in the TF community have gone as far as posting personal information about "known" cheaters. This is where we have gone too far. The posting of information that could be harmful to another person is wrong, even if he has commited an action that has angered others. Information such as personal addresses, phone numbers, ISP addresses and the like are all public information, but the information is being abused. Many people say that they are just posting information with no intent of malice or injury towards that person. This is "a crock" and is morally wrong.
Cheating in a game is not illegal. It may be dishonest or unjust, but the same arguments can be directed towards the invasion of the private lives of people who have done nothing more than to annoy other players. There is no disclaimer or warning that defines the rule of "If you ruin my game, I will ruin your life." It is unfair to people who cheat because it is the only way for them to find enjoyment out of a game. Now i hear many people screaming "THEY ARE UNFAIR TO US, DUMMY!" Does that justify our own actions? If you say "yes", then you are no better than a cheater, and i would not like you to be on a server i play on anymore than a cheater.
In addition, many of the cheaters are minors, and should not be held accountable for minor actions such as cheating in a computer game. Is it fair to the parents of offending children to have to sift through mounds of threatening mail from angry strangers? Of course not, but the parents are usually the ones who take the brunt of our anger, because they do not understand why someone would take such drastic action.
Therefore, i believe we must find a way to stop cheating. But the course we are taking makes us no better then the cheaters themselves. If we want to stop cheating, we need to set an example for the rest of the players, not let the subject degrade into an embarrasing flame war like it has. If we are truly the more nobler and wiser of the two sides, let us prove it.
Why Are You Complaining?
TFS deserves the money they make!
— Justin
Over the course of this year, people have been complaining about the decisions of TFS (Team Fortress Software). The first real complaint was about TF2 switching from the Quake 2 engine (do to the fact id did not want to let TFS use the q2 engine), to the Half-Life engine. People thought that this was selling out to a nobody in the FPS buisness and leaving the Quake community. Then after people heard about the superior Half-Life engine, complaints died down, then vanished when HL finally came out... People were praising the idea now, they heard all of the neat things that TF2 was going to have, and how this will make it a totally "different" game. Then an announcement that came out this past week...
TF2 would now become a stand alone game. People were, and still are, outraged at the thought, thinking, "Oh my, I may have to spend another $15 for a more superior product, I do not think I want to do that." People were also saying, "The only reason I bought Half-Life was to play TF2, this is Valve and TFS trying to pull in more money, damn sell outs..." First of all, I would pay $50 more to play the full version of TF2, the game will be that good. Look at what it is going to offer you right now, and then think about what they will add now that they will have thier own heavily modified Half-Life engine. The HL engine is still the best one out there on the market, and TFS along with Valve will be taking that engine to new heights. Also, more people are now working on the game than there were when it was still a mod. This means, better programmers, texture artists, modelers, mappers, etc. Now, there is the issue of "selling out" for more money.
TFS deserves it, think about it for a moment. They made the best modification of any game ever, thats a FACT (40% of all people who avadly played Quake, played TF), and still is one of the more popular mods out there. They improved TF over and over again, keeping it tweaked and tried to help stop the cheaters. They also payed alot of attention to the TF community, answering e-mails, taking suggestions on the mod, helping out problems, etc. They deserve the money, but they feel that money is not the biggest thing in the world, they are still gamers, still play games, and want to make a great game, rather than a good game like Sin, shogo, and Rainbow 6. Since they announced TF2 being a mod, they only asked for $25, which is not a lot of money, and now they maybe asking for $40, but it still maybe $25...
People are also prone to join on bandwagons and make assumptions, than acctually hearing from the people who made the decision. Planetcrap, which it is, made the first bash on TFS for making this decision. They say that TFS are sell outs and only looking for money, what do they know, can they read minds? I don't think so... People than read the assumption of Planetcrap, and join in on the bash fest. Wait before you judge, because the truth is only a step away. Read the various letters that Robin Walker sent out to various HL and TF2 sites, maybe they will change your opinion....
I for a fact cannot wait for the game to come out, because it will be the best multiplayer FPS out there. People will also stop complaining when the game comes out, because they will be happy with the finished product, much like most of these complainers do...(remember the people who complained about q2 sucking? now they play it religiously...)
Why Half-Life And Why We Should Support TFS
By making it a commercial product, they have more time to devote to the mod add-on itself and a better motive to make it good.
— Panzer
I'd like to reply to BlackKnight's editorial in defense of TFS. (Me defending them. not BlackKnight) He complains about it being only for Half-Life and that it will cost $40-60. Team Fortress Software made the decision to make TF2 the best it could possibly be; by making it a comercial product they have more time to devote to the mod add-on its self and a better motive to make it good. (money does that) Also, the price will be $25, not $40-$60 and i think after all TFS has done for us we should gladly hand over that small amount of cash. The first sought a licence from id software which denied their request, so they then whent to valve which realizing the potential of the next TF, gladly hired them. (That explains why Half-Life)
If you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at id. From what i've read and seen about TF2 it will be awesome, using skeletal animation and more client control (server tells client to play animation, not each frame one by one; when moving or firing you won't have to wait for client to ask permission from server and the server respond) will allow for less lag. The gameplay will be incredible, imagine parachuting out of a full scale C-103, (might be 107, forget), or riding into combat in an apc. It will be well worth it.
Q2TF2?
What about a Q2 version of TF?
— [CPFF] Gz
It is indeed, somewhat interesting on how TF2 issue has come along. I personally think HLTF has brought some controversy in the TF community, not as a "whole" but in my individual personal view. Perhaps some other loyal TFer's may feel the same way. In fact,I do not, in any way support the fact that TF has gone commercial and leaving behind it's loyal QTFer's fans.
HLTF may be a great game, however, I do not feel totally convinced on TF2. Now, for those non-comercial developers who are constantly building MODS for Q2, here's a question, why do not create a non-commercial TF alike without violation copyrights of the original TF developers? why do not develop a somewhat identical TF version for Q2? believe me...the TF community will be thrilled, therefore, thankful.
I just hope, TF Quake legacy will not die, but rather, unite its effots to improve TF1. In addition, I would like to prove this point,
one of the reasons that TF has HL, is to attract its Quake fans to HLTF (imagine more than thousands, the heck!, millions!) of fans buying HL + TF2 addon alike (sound like a good profit heh?) I hope after all this, I hope TF2 worth the hard earned money.
Some may agree, but then again, I could be wrong. TF will live.
What I Think
Let them make it for Half-Life!
— LordMirk
After reading the editorials, I came across the TF2 for Half-
Life one... I don't know about him, but I remember seeing something
say "ID Software wouldn't let TFS make TF2 for Quake2 commercial" or
something like that... Excuse me if I read the wrong site, but
besides the Quake2 engine pisses me off so to speak :)... I also
think I heard that Valve bought TFS... I am more than glad that they
changed their mind, after reading 5 previews of Half-Life... I was
against it at first, but slowing noticed the capabilities of Half-
Life... When I got Half-Life i uninstalled both Quake and Quake2,
not because of the size, but rather because of the boredom rining
upon me playing those...
I am currently looking up to making mods
for Half-Life... I don't see anything wrong with TF2 being for Half-
Life -- besides I payed $25 for Half-Life and I save and organize my
money planning on what's next... because of me doing this i actually
saved myself $400 for buying stuff I want... In fact I'm just 13...
I suppose no one wants to read what I think... I like teamplay DM,
which Half-Life doesn't support, but either way I still play with
teams on Half-Life DM... Pretty simple choose a model and color that
no one is most likely to have and you can spot your friend around
the corner and play "decoy" (or something like POP there goes their
head :)...
Think the author was right on target or completely off the deep end? Let us know -- mail us or post in the forums!
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