Session Start: Sat Jan 20 12:53:38 2001
[12:53] * Logging #hl_coding to 'logs\#hl_coding.log'
[12:55]  I think Erik Smith and Robin Walker and maybe Erik Johnson will show up, too
[12:57]  Yahn, about VPP, when will it be released?
[12:57]  mercalli, not sure yet, we really have to think about security a bit more, that's the main holdup
[12:57]  And scaling to our userbase... of course
[12:57]  VPP == the persistence stuff
[12:58]  Yahn, timeframe on it at all?
[12:58]  probably a while longer ( months not weeks )
[12:59] <[DoD]ZybOrg> It's been awfully (if not scary) quiet from valve a long time now. Something special up? =]
[12:59]  Nothing special is up, we're in "get stuff done" mode
[12:59]  Yahn: In terms of general OpenGL/DirectX coding: Are the intro tutorials you see in places like nehe.gamedev.net really the way that the foundations for a real game engine are layed, or do you guys have fancier ways of setting up the fundamental window/display mode/etc?
[13:00]  Yahn.:. will the tf2 sdk be similar to half-life's ? (any estimated release date ?)
[13:00]  I haven't looked at those particular things, but the basics of setting up for rendering with any of the 3d apis are pretty similar
[13:00]  Yahn could you just describe what part you had in coding halflife and tf2?
[13:01]  blofeld, I think it will be.  No ETA on that, but I'm pushing to make sure it's available _before_ tf2 ships on it.  We're also trying to make it easy to port existing mods ( though it will certainly require some work )
[13:01]  cool
[13:02]  tetraboy, on HL I came in late and rewrote the networking code, a bunch of engine stuff, and all of the user interface stuff.  life sucked
[13:02]  for tf2 i'm doing more network stuff as well as acting as a technical lead
[13:02] *** Weaseal sets mode: +v Directrix
[13:02]  [DoD]ZybOrg: Directrix is from PF :P
[13:03]  Yahn: will there, by any chance, be a generalized networking interface in the server dll, so we can send custom connectionless messages (instead of only receiving them)?
[13:03] *** EricS has joined #hl_coding
[13:03]  Howdy EricS.
[13:03]  Yahn, what do you think about coding things in HL that weren't the original intent like RTS, and RPGs?
[13:03]  hello
[13:03]  prefect:  yes, that's already up and running.  It's like the save restore system, but you can replicate arbitrary data to the client.  It's all a great improvement over HL1's stuff.  Mike Dussault did a lot of the work to get that up and going )
[13:03]  EricS.:. go back to work!
[13:04]  =)
[13:04]  =P
[13:04] <[DoD]ZybOrg> Yahn or EricS: You played DoD yet? =]
[13:04]  yes
[13:04]  mercalli, the whole point of SDK 2.0 was to permit other genres to be developed on top of HL.  I think it's pretty cool.
[13:04]  Yahn, how did you start your coding career?
[13:04]  i liked it
[13:04]  we've played a bunch of dod and flf and firearms and you name it...
[13:05]  cold ice
[13:05]  heh
[13:05]  tetraboy, started when I was young, but the thing that led to the valve job was writing the BSP Quake Editor...
[13:05]  Yahn: Is it possible to use OpenGL commands( like opengl fog ) within the tri api someway cuz halflife's triangle api does nothing else than calling opengl commands, don't it ??
[13:05]  Yahn,  MTG ask Yahn for me what his fav mod is? :)
[13:05]  mike, yes and no.  It does call into gl in the hardware mode, but the software mode is very different.
[13:06]  EricS, like I asked Yahn what part did you have in coding halflife and tf2?
[13:07]  I just started in August...working on supporting Half-Life and mods
[13:07]  You give help to mods right? What mods have you helped out?
[13:07]  Yahn.:. im working on a HL Co-Op mod, and im having trouble getting the save/restore stuff for hl single player mods to work do you know of any solution to get it to work with more than 1 player?
[13:07]  EricS what's your favoirte mod to play when you have no work to do :)
[13:08]   "will the VGUI API be updated before the TFC2 SDK comes out?
[13:08]  Mostly I've been working on HLDM, TFC, and Counter-Strike
[13:08]  tetraboy, many of the major ones and a bunch of unshipped ones
[13:08]  How would one get help with their mod?
[13:08]  biggs, that's going to be tough.  You have to figure out who gets to trigger the transitions and then you have to figure out how to move the "other" players through the transitions
[13:09]  Yahn, how are you coding the commanders view for TF2? and how do you plan to show the other players?
[13:09]  yah, i was thinking writing to a .cfg file
[13:09]  Re: vgui, yes we'll probably release it with source for reference at some point before tf2
[13:09]  MTG[CI]: I like to play all of em.  =)\
[13:09]  thats a nice way to disguise a TF2 question into a coding question
[13:09]  Adrian, well it's not mine;)
[13:09]  EricS hell yah :)
[13:09]  Does valve have to notice your mod, or can you just email them? If you would like valve to take a look at your mod maybe even give you help?
[13:09]  yahn: so that mans if the client is playing HL with opengl we can use the opengl commands and when he´s using direct3d we can use the directx stuff
[13:09]  "how will you, err code the game, so it plays well, yeah, how does it play (via code of course)"
[13:09]  [Wazz] "Will Half-Life mods be able to use the voice communication thingy as seen in TF2? and if so, when?"
[13:09]  mercalli, I'm going to defer the commander questions since we might change our minds on the details and I don't want to raise or even set expectations
[13:10]  Yahn, alrighty
[13:10]  Yahn: How does the TAGs for the vgui work? I've been hearing loads of stuff like height and width must be devidable by 8, 16 and so on
[13:10]  Yahn, is there anyway to speed up the query recieve thing for server listing
[13:11]  mike, not sure if that'll work since you'll have to attach to opengl32.dll separately and your changes may not apply to the engines commands or you could really confuse the driver.  Give it a try and let me know what happens :)
[13:11]  [Parsec^]  Yahn: Did you make VGUI and the Client-Side code confusing on purpose? ;)  mockery, of course
[13:11]  Yahn got any good tips for a person like me, How to start coding, im very intrested in beginning coding
[13:11]  yahn: oki
[13:11]  tetraboy, we don't have enough time to troll/notice mods, most of the time the authors send us email saying "hey check it out..."
[13:11]  I know I did for FLF
[13:12]  mtg, you could create your own socket and then do the querying all in the client .dll
[13:12]  neva!
[13:12]  Ok. Thanks.
[13:12]  mtg, you talking in the launcher or in the client .dll code for the "unsupported" server browser?
[13:12]  yes
[13:12]  [kalin] "how will Valve treat a mod which plans to go commercial"
[13:12]  in-game
[13:12]  To General Public, yea how do I get the VGUI server broswer open?
[13:12]  parsec, vgui is a lot like Java Swing.  You can thank Billy Zelsnack for the "ease of use".. heh
[13:13]  I think it would be much simpler if you had the underlying source as a reference.  That's what I'd want to see
[13:13] <[TAE]Shimms> Yahn: you mentioned that you weren't happy with the way client side weapons where working just yet, are there  plans to make them more firendly? (sorry if its been asked)
[13:13] * Adrian is married to a client side weapon
[13:14]  kalin, it depends on what "go commercial" means.  If it's viable, we'd probably support it.  The sdk has a eula that describes what you can/can't do and if you wanted to take a mod commercial, we'd certain listen ( scott lynch is the proper contact for that )
[13:14]  Yahn or Eric  why did you make tfc use some of the models in the valve the directory? It's annoying when your hldm weapon replacements show up in tfc.
[13:15]  shimms, yes, but I'm not sure if it makes sense doing that for the hl1 sdk, or instead deferring that until the tf2 sdk...
[13:15]  Yahn or EricS: How does the TAGs for the vgui work? I've been hearing loads of stuff like height and width must be devidable by 8, 16 and so on
[13:15]  Yahn: What do you think about the ideas of public SDK documentation projects, etc. (I'm considering orgainzing something like that for TF2 when it's released, is this a good idea in your opinion, does Valve have plans to document it themselves, or what? :)
[13:15]  and the latest i heard is that height has to be "powerd" by 2 (2,4,8,16 etc) which is very limited
[13:15]  tetraboy, we didn't have time to rework all of the weapons for tfc, it was a "quick" project ( in valve time, quick can take a while )
[13:16]  lol
[13:16]  Question from omega (non-voice): yahn, ive asked this before to the mailing list, and such, but noone seems to know yes or no, and anybody that does answer thinks im talkin about server side.. are there any funcs excecuted on the client side when a player disconnects? i need some place to put a "cleanup" for certain things im doing in the client side.
[13:16]  zyborg, to be safe, tgas should probably be power of 2 along any axis ( so 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 pixels ) and not bigger than 512 units ( I think those were the limits for hl1 )
[13:16]  Yahn or Eric, was there anything in Half-life that you wasn´t satisfied about?
[13:17]   ask him "Will Valve ever support free c++ compilers?"
[13:17]  hmm, ok :}
[13:17]  I hate you chanperv!
[13:17]  we need to stop for a while
[13:17]  he has like 5 questions waiting for him:)
[13:18]  biggs, no real "disconnect" event, but you could check the hud_player_info_t every frame and see which player indices stop being "valid" and trigger your event that way?
[13:18]  kalin (non-voice):  [if my mod went commercial... ]"what sort of royalties would u want (approx), AND would iD [Software] want some considering u used their code?"
[13:19]  kalin, you'd have to ask Scott Lynch those questions.. I have no idea
[13:19]  Yahn, any plans for release of another SDK before TF2's?
[13:19]  Yahn: You have any "fav sites" for 3D (OpenGl) programming?
[13:19]  another_1 (not here todax ):are going to release a new part of the halflife engine: the worldrenderer or if they get problems with law bcuz it is Quake engineish stuff?
[13:20]  Yahn: What do you drink when you code?
[13:20]  mercalli, yes, we'll probably rev the sdk a few more times.  We get a lot of feedback on what features really need to go in, so we are thinking about that stuff all the time
[13:21] <[TAE]Shimms> Yahn: To the best of your knowledge, does Valve actually plan on assisting HL1 mods to go commercial? and if so, would it be sold as CS is being sold now, or as a retail product such as Gunman?
[13:20]  Yahn: What do you drink when you code?
[13:20]  pepsi is all you need
[13:20]  Programmers drink Jolt =]
[13:21]  preston, water or diet coke
[13:21]  Eric is a Diet Coke freak
[13:21]  yahn you like diet coke!?
[13:21]  correction: almost every programmer =]
[13:21]  Neat
[13:21]  question from omega: yahn, is the next hl patch/sdk going to allow effects on v/p models? (like color shells, etc) that would be a really nice feature for a lot of us..
[13:21]  shimms, going commercial is not a goal, creating a great mod and getting players should be the goal.
[13:21]  Shhhh....
[13:21]  EricS.:. go eat your oat meal!
[13:22]  Yahn basically making the mod for fun and not for cash?
[13:22]  biggs, hadn't looked closely at adding that feature
[13:22]  the next sdk is going to allow for more than dm_base.bmp to have remappable colors, though.
[13:22]  Yahn: for my mod I'm planning not to have v_models at all. Will this effect anything, asides from framterate and lag, and will the code have to be altered
[13:22]  You can even color the "chrome" texture if you want
[13:22]  nice
[13:22]  Non-Voice ? =  "Will Valve ever support free c++ compilers?"
[13:23]  We're using it for the new, optional tfc model set we're finishing up
[13:23]  Yahn.:. any plans for the next SDK to allow us to edit the model/skin and other related commands without having to hack clientuserinfo?
[13:23]  tetraboy, we try to write code that more or less should work.  We're not going to actively support them or spend time mucking around with .mak files for them
[13:23]  biggs, how are you 
[13:24]  hacking clientuserinfo?
[13:24]  heh
[13:24]  well checking if they updated their model
[13:24]  if it has changed
[13:24]  and if so don't let them change, etc.
[13:24]  mtg, no, making the mod to be a good mod first and foremost, the successful mods figure out ways to make $ in strange ways ( web site banner ads, etc. )
[13:24]  well to limit them to a certain set of models..
[13:24]  it would be easier to edit the model command ;]
[13:24]  biggs, no that's the right way to do it for now
[13:25]  Biggs, but I think the userinfo stuff is a major hack
[13:25]  i agree
[13:25]  Yah, but what if the output turns out to be like cs's
[13:25]  you won't have to do it that way at all for tf2...sigh
[13:25] <[TAE]Shimms> money shouldn't be your driving force for a mod anyway.. but we wont get into this debate now
[13:25]  cs gained alot of players and lost many veterans when they went commercial
[13:25]  MangaMan want's to know: Why is the vgui.lib file in a non standard format?
[13:25]  cs is at its all time high point