Hal: here's my 2 cents. Its rambling, off topic, and somewhat soapboxy, but its 2:30am and im pissed.

    There's been alot of debate about TF's protection of source. It IS TFS's source code, so if they want to keep it to themselves, fine. If they want to prevent access to source code to prevent the development of cheat methods and exploits, fine. If they want to prosecute people for "stealing" their source and modifying it, fine.
    They are well within their rights to do all of these things, and more. But does it really help _you_? Does it really help the _rest_ of us?
    Can they tell us, with a straight face, that taking TF 2.5 source and tinkering with it is wrong? Am I the only one here who sees a parallel? Having source code available suggests to me a totally different mindset.
    I see so much paranoia among amature coder/developers that their precious source will leak. They seem to be completely unaware of exactly how helpful it is to have an infinite number of eyes examining source for problems and for possible enhancements. Is this ignorance? Does this method of code development strike them as totally foreign and untenable?
    Most people seem to be woefully ignorant of open source development, especially when it comes to gamers and consumer/end-user-targeted software. They only thing they've heard is the buzzword, and this from large corporations whose "open source" contributions have been exactly the opposite -- hardly open, and you can forget about ever seeing the source.
    This is NOT what I'm referring to. Eric S. Raymond has written an excellent article, _The Cathedral and the Bazaar_ (http://www.ccil.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-paper.html) which describes the anatomy of what open source is about, free from hype and self-serving hyperbole.
    Sure, its a religious issue. Sure, people's eyes start to glaze over when you describe a successful open source project. Sure, people label you as a crackpot if you give out your source to as many people as possible for debugging and testing.
    You never get to explain that you get actual code patches rather than vague "this crashed on me yesterday but didn't do it again" reports. You never get to the part where you explain that somebody brighter than you rewrote the databasing engine and made it run quicker. You never get to describe how, with the help of the source code, a friend wrote a kernel module to allow it to work behind an IP-masq firewall connected to the Internet.
    If I had a nickle for everytime somebody has said to me "so and so's mod is a direct ripoff of TF", even if it contained zero TF code, I'd be a rich man. And yet this sort of development ("stealing" of code outright) is common in more progressive efforts (e.g. Linux, to name the most high profile). Avoiding reinvention is encouraged. Source reuse is encouraged. Source adoption from a coder who is no longer maintaining the "original" source is common, and always results in more stable, bug free, feature-rich code. Open source (specifically the style of code development described in _The Cathedral and the Bazaar_) has proved time and time again to be to everybody's advantage.
    The disadvantage to this sort of development, of course, is that it is very hard to claim a profit for coding. For those of us who love coding and treat programming as an art, the fruits of our efforts are more than enough reward. While TFS has every right to make as much money as they want off of TF II and whatever other projects they have cooking, do they REALLY intend to tell us that hobbiests modifying TF I code are costing them money? Please.
    TFS: if you're going to go commercial with TF II, why are you punishing the rest of us who simply want to make the most out of the existing TF I code base? You have nothing to lose, and in the end, the TF world will be far richer for it.
    If on the other hand, you think that restricting TF I source will make your road to becoming successful smoother, 1) you're wrong and 2) screw you. Sure, TF is revolutionary and Quake would basically suck without it (at least, _I'd_ never play quake if not for TF) but that doesn't mean I'm not going to complain when you do something dumb.

MofoMujimbo[I'm 12]
Final digression:
    TFS: It was not so long ago you still had a lot to learn about software development. First clue: when TF 2.somethingoranother got the infamous "FINAL" stamp, as if a project as ambitious as TF is ever bug-free and "finished" (typically, amature coders "FINAL" stamps get put on around version 2.0, after which they realize that if they choose to continue development, the code has reached "living project" status, and unlikely to stablilize in any predictable way).

(Editors note: Well! You certainly are a wordy fellow. But being a wordy fellow myself, I can add a few things to this. The mods we are talking about here are the ones who say, "TF based Mod" or "TF like mod." And they use the TF code. I am not talking about mods that use no TF code. Why would I do that. I wouldn't. I will try to address a few of your other comments. Tinkering with the code is wrong if TFS doesn't want it tinkered with. Plain and simple. Their wishes should be followed. They are pestered a lot by players who think because they created TF, they are responsible for all the mods created from the TF code. It consumes a lot of their valuable time. You have stated valid points from your exposure to coding it appears. I lack that exposure because I don't do code. (Or windows) So your opinion and my opinion are bound to conflict. My whole argument is based on the fact that I feel you should follow ones wishes when it comes to something they developed. This is not obtainable due to the fact that most of those who are using the TF code simply don't give a damn what TFS thinks. BTW, if you hadn't digressed and told TFS, "Screw you" I would have really liked this message.)

I have to wonder if team fortress software got premission to to modfy quake code. After all they are asking for donations for tf1 on there website. Where do they get off on having title to anything except the name. I think that the boyz at id would have something to say ( as a matte of fact seems that they allready have in one of earlier .plan threads.... regards:

(Editors note: I don't claim to know everything about this but I do know the following..... id Software gave permission for people to use the quake code to create mods as long as they didn't try to sell the mod. Also TFS requested and received permission to ask for donations for TF. Perhaps we can get some sort of TF fact sheet put together soon. Something with just the facts son, just the facts.)

    Hello! This article is obviously about TF2, the sequel to the popular Quake mod. These are my hopes and you don't have to like them, but please try to respect them.
    First off, the Sniper: The sniper should be very well camouflaged, with the ability to lay down seeing your view. (unlike TF1 where you were still standing) He should have a scope that could be accesed by not holding down on the trigger, but by using a buton to use three different levels of zooming. (In real life how many clicks on the gun means how many times your normal view. Like on the TF Patrol Bundy wrote) You should have lazer sight instead of a dot, or nothing at all. Sorry to say but the dot for the Sniper Rifle isn't realistic. If you ever read about army shit oyu know they don't have a dot, or they use laser sighting that is visible to others.
    Now, the Spy:The spy in TF1 has always disapointed me. The TF2 spy should be a James Bond character. Able to use stealth and cause others uncertainty, but also be a quick killing machine. You should be able to whip out your pistol and cap a guy in the head. Also you shouldn't lose disguise when you shoot. That defeats the spy purpose!!!!!
    The Light Infantry:The character formerly known as the scout, has been revamped for quick takedowns. Although he isn't going to be a killing machine, he should be able to assasinate someone in his way and attack the goal. Say you're a scout in TF1 you make it to the flag room but you see pipes covering the flag and around it. If you touch that flag you're toast. Sya you grenade the guy, and he's blinded by the flash, he still hears the flag stolen sound........... So he should be able to take out that defender and hustle his ass out. (In TF2 hopefully there will be enough communication to escort a Light Infantryman to the flag, and through anything in his way. :-d

Thanx for your attention

(Editors note: Yeah and pretty soon you will be wanting them to add a refreshment stand and a girlie show too. And while we are at it how about instituting weather conditions with snow chains for the tanks and gas stations and...... you can stop me anytime here..... Just messing with ya, everyone has their own personal wish list for TF!)

    I have to agree with Apocalypse, people telling you how to play sucks. On the other hand, I do try to organize the team I'm on into a TEAM when I join a server. Nothing sucks more than having a horrible game because your teammates won't help you out, or you just can't get a good D or O together...
    Another thing that pisses me off is Llamas who run out of the respawn and begin shouting for a medic. I play as a medic almost exclusively, and I almost invariably see some jackass HWGuy (other classes do it too, but mostly HWGuys for some reason) come out of respawn, grab all the armor and begin screaming "Medic!" Why do they do it? Isn't 300 red armor enough for them? Worse they SHOOT ME when I say "you're fine, go away I have more important things to do. Like D." I'll over heal scouts and spies, because they are low armor/health classes, and have a hard time staying alive when faced with 3-4 Soldiers, medics, or whatever. Pyros, Soldiers, HWGuys all have a nice 100 health to start with, as well as good armor, they don't have any real need for an ass load of health that just depletes my Medkit. Other medics will heal me, so I return the favor. I have ID, and a quick axe alias bound to the same key, so I KNOW how much health my teammates have when I heal them, and if I see "100 health" under their name I ignore their pleas for medical assistance. I can generally tell if someone is diseased, cuz they scream every few seconds, and those folks get priority.
    Ok I'll stop this rant, and wait for all them greedy health grubbing bastards to respond with their excuses....

(Editors note: Yeah, what he said! I personally don't even have the call for a Medic bound to a key. Well I do request a bit of health and armor on occasion.I always do the jump when I am pumped up to 100%. Thats all you can ask...... of course I am always doing the little jump. Just ask anyone who plays with me...)

Hello all at PlanetQuake.
     Hi my name is Dynamo D and i am an avid Team Fortress Player. Ever Since i got quake and the internet Team Fortress was the first i ever used. This Mod had change my way i play games over the internet. The potential of letting the imagunation go wild to produce should a combintation of well orechrestated magic.
     My first comment is on the decision made to make Team Fortress 2 using Half -Life engine. I agree i havent reviewed or played half-life to make an approiate oppoinion, but i fell that with such mods as ctf and Weapons of Mass Desctruction that the posibility of a tf mod for quake 2 is possible. I understand that there was more in the decision was more about economics than it was to keep a good quake mod still as quake. As in quake 1 early mod scripts possible so can quake 2!
     My second comment is on Tf2.8. Congratulations!!! I have played since 2. i dont know what but this is my fav. The number reason i think this is the winner is the improvements in the engineer. I believed that in a clan war that a win and a loss could depends on how reliable the sentry guns were and the engineer who weild them.Now with the new sentry code it levels the playing field, letting other class ignored in clan wars(escipecally the sniper) to appear in wars as the original creators imagined.

     My favorite class for TF is the HW !
     All will fall in my path
     God Bless the Legit Player

     Please give me feedback i love to get the latest info on tf and (not for coroprate reasons) but i have to buy half life just for tf2 so please give me info on this if you can ")

(Editors note: Did someone steal your feed? I'll try to get your feed back if someone did..... Oh and we are PlanetFortress. I know it is easy to confuse the two because we are neighbors in this solar system, but we are the first planet on the left. The one with all the war and shit always going on.)

    I noticed that people are always bugging you to do this or that like you should add comments to the mailbag and stuff it would be funny or add a pic of the day which would be cool too but people dont understand this isnt planetquake or planetunreal so stop saying stuff like hey do this like planetquake/planetunreal this isnt planet its planetfortress. all though i do agree it would be cool with a pic of the day and comments with the mailbag im kinda being a hipocrit though saying this.

(Editors note: Well I was considering adding comments to the end of each mailbag item but I decided against it. It would take to much time to do and sooner or later I would loose control of my fingers and they would just type really lame stuff that would end up just taking space and getting someone mad at me. So I decided not to do that. I have no idea who the editor is and how he is adding comments to this page. I shall investigate.)

    You know, ever since I've started playing Team Fortress, I've always been somewhat dissatisfied with a few things. You know, just little things! Like the Rocket Launcher just not sounding quite like a Rocket Launcher should sound... or how the Scout doesn't look... well... Scouty enough.
    It's these little things that always bothered me so much! And so I would go on my upgrade crusades, hoping dearly to find any sort of upgrades. But alas! So few could be found that weren't cheats, and those that COULD be found were so far apart! I was in the bowels of despair, near giving up hope...
     Then my savior came on his grand stallion! The peasants rejoiced! I sang praises! TF Stuff! Oh, how long I have longed for such a site as thee! Thou art the light at the end of such a bleak tunnel! Oh, thank you! Months I have searched! You've come! Forever more, I will be thankful to you and your abundant greatness! Joy! JOYOUS IS THIS DAY!
     And just about now I realize... I am giving myself praise. Cheering for my own site. Egad, have I sunk to such a level? You're damn right! I'm proud of the place, even if it's not the prettiest looking site out there. How long does it take to load, I ask? That much faster the treasures within are accessable! Well, anywho... I'm done now. :)

(Editors note: By the way, I add the titles to the email if one is not presented with the item. I liked the way this was presented, it caught my eye but I will not make a habit of doing shameless plugs in the mailbag. Unfortunately, I have lost the url to this site and it was not included in the email.)

     I get really pissed off when people in team fortress try to tell you how to play. You cant do a thing could spaming or even be a class you want with out being made fun of or cursed at. I would really like if you would just say thing along the lines of, Just let people play the way they want to. I would really like it if you please. Thank you for you time.

(Editors note: A players style of play or tactics may be misconstrued as questionable if it is not accepted by the general consensus of other players. While the player who is using these tactics may not see anything wrong with them, that does not make them acceptable. I have played against clans who think respawn camping was perfectly acceptable when to me and the vast majority of players it is despicable and cheap. It is true a player should be able to play the way he or she wants, but they should also play with honor and integrity. They should want to play that way. As far as choosing your own class, if someone doesn't like the class you pick to play, I would tell them to take a long hike on a short cliff. I only play one class and if some one doesn't like that, well that's just to friggin bad.)